The repelling magnets
In over 20 years of living in Bath, spanning five general elections, we’ve never seen a political billboard in town before. There’s been no point. In vote-share terms the city is the 4th-safest Lib Dem seat in the UK (and the 2nd-safest in England), and it has been since the party won it from the Conservatives in 1992.
But we’ve got a billboard now, featuring two men whose parties haven’t got an earthly hope of winning here (one of them because it’s not standing). What’s that all about?
The non-Scottish reaction to last night’s TV debate featuring SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has been startling. Apart from an outpouring of love from left-leaning voters on social media bemoaning the fact that they can’t vote for the Nats, political pundits have been struggling to get a handle on the First Minister’s storming of the opinion polls, winning YouGov’s at a canter and tying overall with Cameron, Miliband and Farage despite months of super-hostile press.
While those in the right were mainly happy to hype Sturgeon up as a Labour-bashing device, most pro-Labour commentators also tried to put a positive spin on it, like the Guardian’s Owen Jones:
But such a view represents a fundamental misunderstanding of who the Tory attack ads (which were hastily rejigged to feature Sturgeon rather than Alex Salmond) are targeting. The warm welcome Sturgeon received was firmly from the left, and it’s the voters at the other end of the Labour spectrum the Tories are trying to terrify.
Like most UK elections of the last 30 or so years, this May’s will hinge chiefly on Labour-Tory swing voters in a tiny handful of marginal seats. Mainly relatively affluent, aspirational areas which New Labour managed to capture from the Conservatives in the 2000s by triangulating sharply to the right, their voters tend to be unimpressed by the thought of a return to the party’s socialist values of the 1970s and 1980s.
Sturgeon’s pro-immigration, anti-austerity pitch will have chilled them to their bones. The leftwards direction the SNP seek to pull a minority Labour government in is exactly what scared those voters away from Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock in the Thatcher/Major era, and could send knife-edge seats recoiling back to the Tories.
Ed Miliband’s hapless party is caught between a rock and a hard place, in a trap of their own making. If they push right (eg with tougher language on immigration and welfare) to fight for the marginals, they’ll scupper any chance of holding back the SNP in Scotland. If they tack to the left, they might rally a bit in Scotland but would lose as many seats in the south as they’d saved north of the border.
Of the two options, the latter brings more problems. Were Labour to lose in England but have enough Scottish MPs to form some kind of government, they’d open a whole can of worms around devolution and “English votes for English laws”. And currently they’re looking a lot more like winning those Tory marginals than they are to hold their ground against the Nats anyway.
So the smartest move for Miliband is to stay on the right, because it’s an asymmetric battle – all he has to do is win enough seats to deny the Tories a majority, not win one himself, because he knows that the SNP won’t back Cameron and will gladly open the door of 10 Downing Street for a weak Labour Prime Minister they can hold to ransom.
(Which is why Labour are currently tying themselves in knots to avoid ruling out forming a government if they’re not the biggest party. They know that walking away from an offer of SNP support and letting the Tories back in would be political suicide.)
For Sturgeon and her party, meanwhile, it’s a win-win game. If Miliband gets in but is dependent on the SNP’s help, they can take credit for passing left-wing policies like increasing top-rate tax, knowing that if Labour want to renew Trident or slash welfare they’ll have to team up with the Tories, hurting themselves further in Scotland.
(That matters because the Nats really need another majority at Holyrood in 2016, not just a bare win, to be in a strong position with regard to independence. And for all their continuing commanding poll leads, it shouldn’t be forgotten just what a difficult thing that is to achieve, let alone after nine years in power.)
And if Cameron somehow defies the odds and scrapes a thin majority, the SNP get to escape responsibility (because by definition in that scenario, even every Scottish seat being Labour wouldn’t have been enough to stop the Tories), highlight Labour’s inability to protect Scots from another right-wing government elected by England, and make hay with the EU referendum Cameron will have little hope of avoiding.
Nicola Sturgeon has inherited an enviable position from her predecessor and played a strong hand perfectly. Whether Miliband or Cameron ends up in No.10 they’re likely to be lame ducks. Only if the Nat vote crumbles in Scotland and Labour squeak a majority are the SNP – and Scottish voters as a whole – denied a position of great power and influence on a scale they haven’t had for generations, if ever.
By emphasising the SNP’s left-wing credentials, Sturgeon pushes Miliband (who’s to the left of most of his Parliamentary party) out to the right in search of a space to occupy, like two magnets of the same polarity repelling each other. Paradoxically, it’s only by doing that – in practical terms by denying Labour a majority – that she can actually pull Labour’s policies to the left, and that realisation appears to be dawning on a lot of left-wing voters in England.
The reason the Tories are campaigning in Bath is that the Lib Dems are weak and the Tories want to try to recapture soft-right voters by frightening them with Alex Salmond and the SNP. Because right now, across the whole UK, for a huge demographic that’s been disenfranchised for decades it’s the Nats who have all the attraction.
Labour is losing out because of the fact they are pandering to the marginals instead of having some integrity and standing by their beliefs. They are an utter embarassment!
In a nutshell. 🙂
I’m beginning to think we’re not all one big happy family.
I was struck by the commentators on the debate from Englandshire, who were impressed by Nicola, stating they had never heard her speak before.
Can you imagine anyone in Scotland being unaware of the Leader of a party which was polling so high in England?
Shame on the MSM that their reporting in the past few months causes surprise amongst the general public that Nicola is not some crazed Nat Rampager.
Beautifully explained!
Love the photie too saved it. Still feeling the zing from last night. 🙂
New Labour have nearly managed to ‘Trangulate’ themselves out of existence in Scotland by pandering to the right in key marginals. Roll on May 7th.
Last Saturday Ms Nash and entourage chapped our door for a talk. I was more than happy to spend a long time talking until the lady decided to walk away because she had had enough.
The important thing here is that this is Airdrie and neither Ms Nash, or any other Labour member, have ever gone round the doors before. They must be worried.
I hope the Tories do get in so that the EU referendum takes place.
It’s really the only way we can swing another indy vote in the near future.
I noticed last night that Plaid and the SNP both called on them to make a commitment not to pull out if not every part voted yes and they wouldn’t do it. So game on.
Excellent article Rev.Stu,thank you.
Succinctly put, Rev.
Intriguing to see the reaction from down South to Nicola’s showing and the fact, which apparently the media want to overlook, that the SNP experienced another surge in membership last night.
The suggestion that the First Minister is “the most dangerous woman in politics” penned in yesterday’s Telegraph by Graeme Archer may well be true but only really applies to the far right!
“””By emphasising the SNP’s left-wing credentials, Sturgeon pushes Miliband (who’s to the left of most of his Parliamentary party)”””
He’s as left as a Tory,,,, take a look at his voting record, look at the memoirs of Tony Benn and the other left wing Labour representatives, as well as his other track records and dare tell me that he’s “left”.
He is horse meat labelling himself as a lamb shank. He has been used as a front man because his dad was a real socialist.
HE, is nothing more than a Blairite, like Murphy, spinning a lie to gain power then consolidate his interests, using the words people want to hear and relying on ignorance of the public to believe him when he spouts his words….
And its an insult to hear those men spout they are socialists, for other to believe them, when we who are the real left, and as such had studied all social and economic models know this to be a massive lie and leave it as nothing but a buzz word. Its sickening.
There is only 1 MP in labour that I trust to hold its traditional values, though he can rub people the wrong way, and that is Mr Dennis Skinner.
Every other is a joke, and those south of the boarder who are quickly become pro SNP know this.
I think most people in England were surprised by the fact that Nicola is actually a normal person and not some fire breathing dragon (like Salmond obviously is!).
Rev,
You’re over thinking this.Just thicken up your Scotch accent,tell everyone you’re Nicolas brother,and let them buy you pints.
But we’ve got a billboard now, featuring two men whose parties haven’t got an earthly hope of winning here (one of them because it’s not standing). What’s that all about?
I’ve just been doing a wee bit of outside the box thinking sort of thingy here and come up with a great wheeze. 😉
As Stu says “one of them isn’t even standing.” Well folks I have the solution! No seriously I really do have the solution, I just hope I’m not to late.
Erm … Stu … as you’re in Bath which is, at my last recollection Dan Suff, perhaps you should stand in Bath as an S.N.P. candidate. I mean after last night’s “we all love” Nicola thingy you would be a sure fire winner in Bath wouldn’t you? 😛
This would also mean two things happen.
1) S.N.P. win 60 seats not 59 seats.
2) S.N.P. win their first seat in England.
This would most likely result in Cameron, Milliband and the other one whose name I can’t remember all being admitted for long term care into their local mental institution and the realistic chance of some REAL politics being achieved. 😀
A well explained article.
No matter what happens in this GE, Labour are fecked in the long term. They were a party formed by the working class, for the working class. Now they are a party of the middle class, depending on crumbs from the table of corporate interests for their funding and media profile.
The folk they are now setting their stall at have the Original Tories to vote for.
Only one Tory party is needed, and Labours place has been taken by the SNP in Scotland, and another party will take their place down south.
GITRFUY.
@Lesley-Anne
Stu as a SNP candidate in Bath…what are you trying to do? At the mere prospect of that the Daily Record offices would explode with a force that would probably take out half of Glasgow along with them!
Fact is nobody is going to win a majority unless something truly drastic happens and happens fast.
The polls have been as steady as they were before the 2010 hung parliament and there isn’t really the time for a huge swing to either Labour or the tories. Nor does one look remotely like happening.
Unless something utterly bizarre happens in the next few weeks then it’s going to be a minority government of Labour or the tories which is precisely why they are both fruitlessly banging on endlessly about other parties rather than their own.
We are in great shape to define the next five years in westminster just as long as we make it happen and do everything we can to help the candidates in our areas.
We can’t possibly afford to take it for granted now with only a few short weeks to go.
As Nicola told the crowd of wellwishers today..
Despite the surge of enthusiasm, Sturgeon had a warning to deliver. She had seen during the referendum campaign thousands of yes activists celebrating before polling day, assuming victory and then tasting defeat.
So in her parting words, Sturgeon yelled over her supporters heads: “If you want Michelle to be your MP, you’ve got to get out there and make it happen.”
Same goes for every single constituency and area.
We can make it happen if we do something about it. 🙂
Rather that than spend the next five years regretting that we didn’t help enough.
@ Donald Urquhart & KillieBoab (from the last thread)
It isn’t just the last few months Donald. I live in England & we rarely see Scotland get a mention on our tv channels at all.
The referendum was hardly mentioned at all in the two year run up to it. I remember just 2 appearances of Alex-the first announcing that the date had been fixed for indyref and standing by the long low sign (showing the date) which I assume was in Holyrood grounds.
The 2nd was again standing by the same sign with a month to go to indyref.
We also saw nothing in the run up to Commonwealth Games apart from stuff on English team preparations.
By that time, I’d got sick of seeing nothing on tv & searched online for info. That’s how I ended up here but I didn’t dare post because of the comments here.It took me a long time lurking to summon up the courage to post.
You think that Scotland is the only ones being subjected to BBC bias & WM control. I have news for you- we all are- England, Wales, Scotland & NI. The English don’t see much about Wales except the stuff about how bad it’s health service is. We have the crap shoved down our throats about how bad the English health service is. Deliberate spin so the establishment parties can sell it off without a murmur from the people.
I get English news online from a variety of sources because I know I can’t trust the stuff being broadcast here.I haven’t read a newspaper in years except for London Evening Standard for Stu, looking for articles relevant to Scotland & Private Eye for the same reason.
Our press in England is much the same as Scotlands -consists of indoctrination & persuading us that we don’t need to think about anything. The answers are all within those printed pages & the culprits are the same owners of the Scottish press.
…is the billboard across from the WOS office?
Salmond’s got so much brainpower, the extra synapses have burst through his cranium.
LA,
As he is not even a member of the SNP it would be more practical to stand as an independent (progressive alliance/ Wings Over Bath) aligned to the SNP and supporting their key policies.
Mind it is a pretty big ask to get a campaign organised and running!
Start up an associated party called the S&ENP, Scottish & English National Party.
Put up candidates for Carlisle and Berwick/Tweed, both border towns, with Scotland just down the road who would benefit from an independent Scotland.
Start small and work your way up if the test cases work as planned. 😉
Enjoyed your analysis.
Our Hero has applied to be on QT next week and Archie Melrose has done up a photo so our Stu sticks out and attracts Dimblebums attention… Go Stu.. 🙂
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2h4lwlu&s=8#.VR6yK_nF-So
Ravelin says:
@Lesley-Anne
Stu as a SNP candidate in Bath…what are you trying to do? At the mere prospect of that the Daily Record offices would explode with a force that would probably take out half of Glasgow along with them!
It would be fun though Ravelin. Just make sure Glasgow is evacuated firstv though. Plus there would be an enormous benifit … no more Daily Labour Liepaper. 😀
I think you are reading too much into my post cearc. I thought you knew me by now. Nothing, or almost nothing, I ever say is meant to be takemn seriously. 😀
I do take on board however, what you say cearc and I think you are right. Mind you there isstill time for Stu to join S.N.P. before the deadline. 😛
Alex has some pretty wild-looking hair in that picture, Rev!
Yup, Ed had to answer questions with one eye on England and another on Scotland.
I don’t have even a smidgen of sympathy for Labour though, as it’s what happens when you’ve not been truly representing your traditional vote, for the past 20 years or so.
I said on another site, before the debate, that it would be a good strategy for Nicola, to reach out to the English socialists, as it would have a knock on effect of reaching out to tradition Labour voters in Scotland, and punch a few holes in the ‘International Socialism’ lie, so loved by the likes of Duncan Hothersal.
I think looking at the above tweets as well as other social media, we can safely say, that it is the SNP, who are the true champions of International Socialism in Scotland,
And it’s the Scottish Labour Party that has left it’s tradition Labour brothers in the rest of the UK behind, as Murphy has declared he will make policies that are only benefiting Scotland, and Ed Milliband along with Socialists from the RUK can read about it in the papers!
So all you Genuine Socialist who read Wings, perhaps secretly!
It’s time to ‘Make the Switch’ Vote SNP the only Socialists in the whole of the UK who want all working class socialists, to work together for the good of our communities.
Yes we want independence from the dead hand of Westminster, but why does that stop true international socialists working as brothers?
The answer is simple: It doesn’t!
OT,
Has anyone else noticed how hard the BBC has been trying to Help Scottish Unionist big hitters?
QT, the past few weeks has been Jim Murphy, Danny Alexander, and next week Douglas Alexander.
Must be nice having your own broadcast media, publicity department, eh!
I still have no idea what the SNP`s true intentions are for this general election. Are they serious about a deal with Labour in England, in the event that neither Labour/Tories get a large enough victory? A c&s supply deal with Labour would probably only see Holyrood gaining moderate new powers. Or do the SNP leadership secretly want the Tories back in, as this would likely be a pretext for the removal of the pledge to hold an independence referendum? The gradualist approach adopted in the last few decades by the SNP leadership means that it is very difficult to dismiss the former scenario, although at the same time it can also act as a cover for the latter scenario.
Agree with most of this, Stuart. Firm analysis.
We need you with fire in your belly, mate. Now, more than ever, for London Labour and the Nasty Party will gear up and intensify the Lie Propagator in the run-up to 7 May. Scotland, and the UK, requires probing analysis as we stand on the edge of a new, progressive political outlook.
The reaction on social media to Nicola’s prime-time performance has been encouraging, but let’s not get carried away.
To paraphrase a wee fat manny – now is not the end. Nor is it the beginning of the end. Rather it is the end of the beginning.
Let’s fight the good fight. For Scotland
Don’t know if that worked try this…
http://imgur.com/OngUJO2
The arrogance of saying its a two horse race and only Miliband or Cameron can be MP.
So every other vote is wasted. Change has to start somewhere and grow.
What a way to treat an electorate. Polls or no polls we have 5 weeks to go and there may be another GE this year if its not settled.
Now my memory isn’t the best but – just like the lie of the biggest party always forms the government.
Do I recall that there is a precedent when neither of the two biggest parties could put together enough members for the confidence of parliament and the leader of a smaller party became MP. Im not sure so help please.
Would be great to show that the electorate don’t need to be dictated too and can control the out come of our democracy. If Miliband and Cameron cannot get an overall majority as MP they don’t deserve to enter No10. The people will have spoken.
Muttley 79 4.41,
I don’t worry too much.Its enough for me to know that the SNP will always stick up for Scotland.
The rules on advertising online are somewhat more lax than elsewhere regarding party political broadcasting.
As a result, using IP addresses the Tories are targeting specific postcodes in marginal seats
It really is that only now the english ordinary folk are becoming more interested in what is going on here.
The more they snoop around to see what it is all about, the more surprised they will become.
They will find out, that we are no backwater, we are not all drunks and junkies and that maybe we do have a case.Not only that, in the SNP we have competent government, and one that can, balance the books. Something they can only aspire to.
Nicola has brought us under the light of the English, and now not just the elites, and that could change things big time.
We are not the monsters as the English press portray us, and may come to the conclusion that they could take us more seriously and actually become the friends that we should be.
What they have to do is work with us to make the islands a worthwhile place to live in, without the follies of the Westminster and the Lords mob dictating the way they live and what the must accept.
This could if handled right not only bring Scottish Independence but make England the friendly neighbours we should have.
Just look for 7 illegal things to do during an election on you tube
Alastair says:
The arrogance of saying its a two horse race and only Miliband or Cameron can be MP.
So every other vote is wasted. Change has to start somewhere and grow.
I think Natalie Bennet hit that one square on the head last night Alastair when she said that for people who want change to get change they have to VOTE for change. In other words change will never happen unless people do something to force change and in this instance it is voting for change that will do the business.
Rumours on the internet that there is going to be a defecting Labour Mp or Msp asking to join rhe SNP.Anybody heard anything.It sounds genuine enough.
LA,
Smiley thing!
There is a serious point though. To provide a platform to tell people stuff that we tend to know but that it is largely unknown in England. Like the allocation of exports to the region where the port is, allocation of corporation tax to the region where it is paid etc. A lot of people would be quite interested to understand how London is promoted as a ‘powerhouse’ on the back of their efforts which they get no credit for.
Patrick-I have a pathogical hatred of that rat face Alexander and I’m praying he is kicked out. He seems to be pulling a few favours and is appearing on anything and everything, last seen last night commenting on the itv news post debate. Wish we had hundreds of foot soldiers in his constituency helping Mhari Black. Boot him oot please voters.
I have been flying around the other sites and boy is Nicola taking a hit from the Unionists. They are, believe it or not picking up the comment about the NHS car parks being free in Scotland when 3 of those are still tied into Labour PFI contracts. That’s it. Sure are scraping the barrel. It is sad to see so many English so misinformed about Nicola, or not know who she is. That’s MSM for you.
Stu- you might have to have a Wings over England site for these poor souls.
Right,
Who’s going to stand in the Berwick on Tweed consituancy?!!.
@wee folding bike says: 3 April, 2015 at 3:29 pm :
” … The important thing here is that this is Airdrie and neither Ms Nash, or any other Labour member, have ever gone round the doors before. They must be worried.”
Tell you what, Wee folding bike, I’m nae spring chook and have always lived in constituencies considered Labour safe seats.
I’ve never seem them so worried in all those long years.
My partner is just back from chippie. Apparently whilst waiting for her order the local Lab candidate, Archie Dryborough, walked in behind her. He saw her Nicola on tour sweat shirt and resignation instantly appeared all over his face. BRILLIANT! Could not have happened to a better man! 😀
@Bob Mack.
I heard before the referendum that Jim McGovern, Dundee West Labour MP, was unhappy with ‘Scottish Labour’. It didn’t stop him campaigning for BT though.
Now he resigns at a most inconvenient time for Labour?
I’ve only just ‘got’ the Professor John Curtice gag!
Rev, a question for you,as Question Time is going to be in Bristol next week are you going to try and get in and stir things up a bit,I hope so.
Bob Mack says: “Rumours on the internet that there is going to be a defecting Labour Mp or Msp asking to join rhe SNP.Anybody heard anything.It sounds genuine enough.”
Could it be La Mont? She’s been awfy quiet as of late. I had assumed, of course, that she was very busy out canvassing for “best friend” Margrit Curran…
or possibly sitting in front of the telly with a nice dram or six, endlessly watching videos of her appearances at FMQ and on the BBC, commentating to herself or whoever will listen: “Aye, I telt that Sturgeon wimmin, so I did!… And that Andrew Neil…. Oh, I telt them, I did, they wis telt!”
Twitter traffic analysis of the debate with geographic map of UK interaction last night showed that Sturgeon had the highest level throughout. Experts from a university.
Peaks were difficult to show as the debate moved long so fast Nicola was a preferred rather than the others in the debate who had their surnames used.
Very low twittering levels re: use of Miliband in Scotland on the map.
Aach! Shame .. 🙂
ITV Leaders debate, Cameron and Clegg came across as classroom snitches. Miliband wanted to lurve the camera… on his back, on his back.
The victory was elsewhere. Nigel sounded ok on education. The women won the debate.
Including that “One” which pointed out (from the audience) what happens to some of those which actually put their country before themselves.
Cameron… fcuking charities are responsible for those Fcukwits.
In Bath, vote Green. Simples.
Greg Moodie’s take on the leaders debate
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/03/tea-and-sympathy/
@Juteman says: 3 April, 2015 at 4:12 pm:
” … They were a party formed by the working class, for the working class. Now they are a party of the middle class, depending on crumbs from the table of corporate interests for their funding and media profile.
Sadly I have to disillusion you, Juteman, for the biggest by far contributor to the Labour Party is none other than the biggest United Kingdom Trade Union – Unite. This in spite of the spat they had with Labour in the wake of the Falkirk upset a wee while ago.
O/T
I just dropped a few quid to Danus Skene. He is the snp candidate hoping to boot out Carmichael.
I tried posting the link in the afternoon but for some reason it didn’t appear. Trying again..
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/orkney-and-shetland-snp-campaign-2015
Brewer still yapping on about the SNP giving carte-blanche to a Labour government on the wireless this morning despite Angus Robertson dismissing this nonsense to Brewer at the week-end.
His dismay at Labour’s fate is painfully obvious & Brewer’s Droop has set in big time. 🙂
A very good article about the debate yesterday by Richard McGinley from our friends at Common Space.
“Standing by, totally relaxed, was Nicola Sturgeon.
If she had painted her face with a blue and white saltire and cut everyone else in two with a claymore she couldn’t have inflicted more damage on the mainstream leaders.”
https://commonspace.scot/articles/922/richard-mcginley-the-fear-becomes-real-how-nicola-sturgeon-stunned-the-country-on-leadersdebate
Those rumours about a defecating MP.
After the polls and debates, I am surprised that there is only 1 !
“Rev, a question for you,as Question Time is going to be in Bristol next week are you going to try and get in and stir things up a bit,I hope so.”
I’ve applied, yes.
Great essay. Hope voters do go for far greater Scottish influence in Westminster May 7. But why has BBC worked so hard to get UKIP Farage going in both Scotland and England. Are they working to split the Labour vote in working class areas with high levels of immigration? They really pushed that UKIP MEP in Scotland to split up the referendum vote last year and that guy alone still gets an enormous amount of BBC coverage.
If its as tight as it looks and Labour are losing to UKIP, that can only be good for the right. BBC dont blast guys like Farage across our tv’s for nothing.
There is no chance that Lamont would defect to the SNP. She is Scottish Labour through and through. Lamont hates the SNP as well. If the rumour is true, and it is just speculation at present, then the only prominent SLAB figure I can think of is Katie Clark (or is it Grant?). I would be surprised though it happens anytime soon.
“He’s as left as a Tory”
Which is why I specified “of his Parliamentary party”. By current Labour MP standards Miliband is relatively leftish. That says VERY little but it’s still the case.
@Robert Peffers.
Sadly I have to disillusion you if you think the biggest backer of Labour is Unite.
Westminster is far more powerful than Unite.
If there was one thing to note last night, Cameron, Miliband and Clegg never went near Nicola. I think they all knew that any attack on her would result in a Pandora’s box being opened. Question her on things like the Barnett Formula, and she will highlight exactly how much Scotland pays. Attack her on Trident, then possibly two questions would be raised by her; one …why don’t we get rid of Trident and spend £100 Billion on free tuition throughout the UK which then mean lots of investment in youngsters for the future, and secondly …if you love Trident so much, then why have you not parked it in places like Southampton, Portsmouth or even the Thames if you love it that much? Other things such as no oil fund, the dubious raising of money for proxy wars, Bankers, Paedophilia, etc all being highlighted as Westminster failures if Cameron, Clegg or Miliband has provoked her in any way. They knew fine well not to throw grenades at the ‘wee lassie wae the tin helmet!’ Apart from a withering stare, a nippy comment and a thrashing on live TV, they also knew that any attack on her could lead to further dissention in Scotland as many Scots, including Unionists could view it as an attack on Scotland itself.
One key highlight for me came from David Cameron. Whenever Nicola spoke, you could see him looking at her with a great amount of respect. When she spoke. He never uttered a peep! Farage tried it once and got swatted away. When he tried one of his controversial tactics over the HIV-Aids sufferers from abroad, I cheered when Plaid Cymru’s, Leanne Wood got tore into him. After that Farage played safe; never went near any of the women again and just attacked his 3 male opponents.
It was a great night, but it will be interesting to see how the Media react to this. I have no doubt it has unnerved them quite a bit. They must have thought that Nicola would be wild-eyed, finger pointing and promising Armageddon on the English people, while the English audience would be all ‘hiss, hiss, boo’ whenever she spoke.
It seems that hell did get a slight touch of frost last night.
But the media will be back. I have no doubt a new form of attack on the SNP will come. It may come over a comment that Nicola says, or something that even Miliband says! But the media will ponder, review and be back. They won’t want her to become a real alternative in England. If that happens, then we really do have a game changer in these isles.
Defecating labour MP?! Lol!
Hmmm..questions questions Stu? So many to choose from. It’s gonna be tough if you get on.
Joemcg says:
3 April, 2015 at 6:10 pm
Defecating labour MP?! Lol!
I think they are all defecating right now!
Most of your analysis is on the money, Stu, but there’s a key point we all need to explore with one significant part:
“…the Nats really need another majority at Holyrood in 2016, not just a bare win, to be in a strong position with regard to independence. And for all their continuing commanding poll leads, it shouldn’t be forgotten just what a difficult thing that is to achieve, let alone after nine years in power.”
It’s certainly true another majority for the SNP at Holyrood will be very difficult to achieve. As most readers will know that’s largely due to the Mixed Member PR voting system – MMP for short – means the more constituency seats the SNP win, the less seats they’ll harvest from the lists. If indeed the SNP do extremely well next month – as I fully expect and hope they will – there is an excellent prospect of their carrying this through to May 2016 and holding on to or perhaps even increasing the number of constituencies from the 53 out of 70 they won in 2011. That likelihood increases if Labour continue to collapse further still (which I’d lay money on especially Mighty Murph is leading the fray). The consequence of this, however, is that the SNP will certainly lose seats from their present 16 from the lists so may well struggle to secure an overall majority.
The SNP’s best bet, of course, is to go for more constituencies but they’d need to hold on to what they’ve got plus win at least another 12. I know that seems like stating the obvious but even with their staggering altitude in the polls it’s an incredibly tall order. Chances are even another handful of constituencies would mean SNP securing zero seats from the lists.
2011 was then something of a perfect storm in terms of the parliamentary arithmetic and very, very unlikely to be repeated next time around. Even if the SNP campaigned for it with all their might, that sweet spot is incredibly hard to hit.
In other words the best option for independence supporting voters is likely to be 1st vote SNP then 2nd vote Green. Current polls for Holyrood indicate the Scottish Greens could go from their present 2 seats (or 3 if you count John Finnie) to 11, 12 or perhaps more. And as Greens don’t stand in the constituency votes the SNP will have a clear run there and any Green MSPs will, as ever, ALL come from the lists. That’s how MMP works.
Several regular Wingers have exhorted all independence supporters to vote SNP this May 7th to break through the FPTP anachronism and send maximum Indy representation to Westminster. Lend us your vote, I’ve been asked by countless SNP friends I worked shoulder to shoulder with throughout the referendum campaign. I understand and that’s exactly what I intend to do on May 7th – lend my vote. Although I have differences with many SNP policies – obviously – I genuinely trust and respect their leaders and in FPTP believe their centre left anti-austerity positions are the best option. (Finally breaking the death-grip stranglehold of the rotting carcass that is Labour in Scotland is also a major incentive, mind!)
Now many on here will know I am a member of the Scottish Greens and fully acknowledge my bias in that direction, but I honestly believe I’ve given an accurate analysis of the likely situation next year. That’s why I’m questioning the paragraph in parenthesis from your original article, Stu, not disagreeing as such but seeking to flesh it out, because there’s a key message here that needs to be discussed, debated and understood sooner rather than later: 2016 will not be like 2011 or 2015.
Lend us your vote, I’m asked. Well, ok – how about a quid pro quo? Indeed, as I’ve tried to demonstrate here, it make sense electorally for if the SNP don’t quite make a majority in 2016 then a dozen or more independence supporting Green MSPs might well prove essential. Who knows, we might even pull the SNP a bit to the left (Now where have we heard that recently?)
It remains to be seen if the SNP will have a second independence referendum front and centre in its 2016 manifesto; probably we all need to see the lie of the land after next month. I’m not in a position to speak for the Scottish Green Party but I do believe we will be reading the runes too and if the signs say go for it we will again be working hard for that Yes vote. I know I will.
Either way, I’d ask everyone on here to think hard about the large areas of common ground between the two parties, and to use your 2016 second vote as wisely as you’re asking us to use our one and only vote this time round.
Vote SNP. Vote Green. Still Yes.
BBC dont blast guys like Farage across our tv’s for nothing.
I agree. There was a while when he seemed to have virtually taken up residence in the BBC studios. I assumed this was being done to split the Tory vote.
But a couple of months ago they seemed to suddenly drop him and there has been a fair number of negative UKIP stories. Lo and behold they have gone down in the polls.
So while I suspect the BBC have reasons for all of this, I can’t work out what they are.
@ Croompers 4:32pm – I say OM that was jolly decent of you to post my little jape. See you after prep at the tuckshop or behind Ronnie’s shed for a puff. 🙂
Ahm just practising mah English posh voice in case ony meeja eejits wunt mah opinion about ‘excessive windae-hingin’.
Glamaig @6.27
The reason is possibly quite simple. BBC have been pushing Farage simply because they can. They are that arrogant. Build them up, knock them down. Show our (BBC) power and influence. See what we can do – make you or break you. Mischief making for the sake of it.
Lesli Ann, I think you will find that Virginia Bottomley Min. of Health waved her magic wand and cured all those who were receiving treatment and closed all psychiatric hospitals. The developers were so pleased. That would mean Cammy and Co. would be homeless.
Re ex Dundee west MP McGovern it is rumoured he was in cash generator trying to pawn that “toaster” today
Heard it’s Murphy, but the SNP has told him to GTF!
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Katie Clark, either, and something tells me she’s not at all enamoured of the Smurf as leader of the Labour branch office in Scotland. Not because she lost the leadership contest, but because she dislikes his tactics and persona. Just a hunch.
Friends down south are actually expressing admiration for Nicola and saying they wish they could vote for her. Some who have been bored by my political postings, and yet have sat up and taken notice of what happened yesterday and realise that I’ve been telling the truth about the SNP all along. No hard feelings – you just know that when people actually hear her speak and outline the policies of the SNP, the realisation of what she stands for will trump all the lies and spin in the MSM and from Westminster. The fact that she galvanises people to sit up, take notice and measure the available parties down south against what we have up here in a very positive way, is proof that she speaks to the decency and common sense in all of us who know there is an alternative to adversarial Westminster posturing and shouting matches.
Only one thing can save the current setup, so, (if you are running the book) I’d like:-
£10 on “Vile cybernats” (with FB accounts that only go back 18 months)
£5 each way on “Pedophile links…”
also, are you doing a “Lucky 16” on the buzzword Bingo?
Perhaps to push the tories to the right, then once they are safely there drop Farage and hope the right wing voters return to the fold?
More likely the BBC ran scared of accusations of bias against UKIP and caved in: though the same accusations make no impact wrt BBC Scotland, I note.
Iain Gray’s Subway Lament
I have seen lots of comments on here about people out canvassing etc but so far where I am I have not seen hide nor hair of any SNP presence in person or on paper.
Only leaflets I have seen have been Labour’s delivered by the Royal Mail.
So maybe things are not quite into gear yet. Was going to say top gear but don’t want that term associated with SNP.
Wings over England? Surely not!
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
The political elite warn us over voter apathy and its detrimental effect on our democracy. But I believe there is an even greater threat to the election process and it is what I would term as the “mushroom electorate”.
This threat is most of them believe they are fairly well informed and knowledgeable on the political choices paraded and can be trusted to make the right decision. Perhaps until recently I could have been classed as a proper Boletus!
Why mushroom? Because the best environment for them to grow is to be kept in the dark and fed bullshit. I speak from personal experience. In the past my only political discourse was via the written press and mainstream TV and, as I now appreciate, are controlled for the personal gain of their political masters including the BBC. I passively accepted the commentary from the “heavyweights” as being factually correct and truthfull.
The Westminster elite and mainstream media promote the status quo. Get the mushrooms to grow, casting their spores to produce even more informed ignorance. Keeping us in the dark and feeding us bullshit in order to manipulate and deceive so they can plan their selfish gain and interests. Not straight out lying but holding back a wee truth here and a wee snippet there such as the Alex Salmond poster. No mention that he does not lead the SNP and is not even an elected MP let alone being the Westminster Leader.
Of course we know better north of the border but the mushroom electorate are vulnerable from the propaganda designed to frighten them that Salmond is the devil incarnate himself, a Ja-aggy Jock sent to terrorise the home counties.
Perhaps you are being inspired Rev and Wings Over England is not a bad idea after all. Maybe the daylight will shine upon the wee mushrooms and expose right wing press and Tory bullshit. It did for me.
Good luck!
I see Nicola was in Edinburgh on the campaign trail. A picture paints a thousand words
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/584033663500886018/photo/1
I consider that billboard will have quite an impact.
I also thought the Trailer billboard that circled the SNP
Conference in Glasgow got a great deal of coverage.
It had Alex Salmond and Miliband superimposed as Laurel & Hardy.
Rev Stuart, could we do something like that in East Renfrewshire
showing Murphy as a Smurph and Miliband as Wallace?
We have got to get that clown out of office as a priority.
Just been sick watching him hug an inebriated man in the street.
Check your pockets Sir! Smurph is running out of funds. lol
I am so smelling the coffee sweeties!
Nana
Contribution made 🙂
Brendan O’Hara’s adoption night
With guests David Hayman, Jeane Freeman & Michael Russell MSP. From Queens Hall, Dunoon
Starts 7.30pm.
So while I suspect the BBC have reasons for all of this, I can’t work out what they are.
The right know that the UK will not leave the EU. They know that if they have to, the BBC alone will Project Fear enough English vote away from a UK exit, in exact same way they laid in to Scotland. It worked really well Sept 18, it will work on UKIP who would clearly delighted to be Conservative GB’s English far right useful idiots.
BBC tries to annihilate SNP Scots.gov and Scottish democracy but really boost and push Farage into UK politics, all to keep England’s establishment in long to reign over us power. Divide rule, give the sweaties some silly bits of THE VOW devo thanks to Brown, massive BBC pay cheques for BBC shills, knighthoods, OBE’s all round.
Rule Britannia.
That picture and similar ones with both Nicola and Alex show the difference between the SNP leaders and the Westminster gang. Nicola and Alex are not afraid to walk amongst the people as they are one of them. The Westminster crowd think they are above the people. Can you imagine Murphy hugging a wee girl like Nicola?
Correct link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Cu6qpqJz7JM
That’s great Lollysmum. Thank you!
I believe Danus aged 70yrs is the oldest candidate.
There was nothing to be gained by going after the SNP for the big boys last night.The seats to be gained are all in England
Nicola also did not want to inflict too much damage on Labour in England as it might help the tories win more seats and she wants to have the balance of power.
Nicola did an excellent job!
FFS
I posted on the previous thread about the BBC coverage today and I feel really very let down by what appears to be shabby and lazy journalism on the one hand and poor media management on the other.
BBC News 24 19:07 and a report from Ben Wright – strapline still saying “Sturgeon says she wasn’t “tested” during event”. It’s been running all flipping day!
I watched her interview with James Cook earlier and she said the exact opposite. Twice.
Andrew Kerr on radio Scotland said a remarkably similar thing on the 6PM news that “opponents say she wasn’t tested”, which is NOT the same. It was also used on the 6:45 BBC1 news.
Well Milliband had his chance to do some “testing” last night (FFA anyone? college places anyone?) but failed to do so. No journalist seems willing or able to point that out. Pretty sure @afneil might ;( if he had the chance that is.
Maybe I’m missing something and she did actually those words, but if she didn’t, I fail to understand why the media bods in the SNP have not managed to get it corrected in er, 8 hours.
Rant over. Sorry folks….
Glamaig says:
3 April, 2015 at 6:27 pm
BBC dont blast guys like Farage across our tv’s for nothing.
I agree. There was a while when he seemed to have virtually taken up residence in the BBC studios. I assumed this was being done to split the Tory vote.
But a couple of months ago they seemed to suddenly drop him and there has been a fair number of negative UKIP stories. Lo and behold they have gone down in the polls.
So while I suspect the BBC have reasons for all of this, I can’t work out what they are.
Simple really – promoting UKIP seemed a great way of, as you said, splitting the tory vote. However, UKIP were also starting to eat into their precious northern Labour heartlands. In fact it now looks like Labour have more to fear from UKIP than the tories. Suddenly, the BBC realised they had opened a can of worms. Too late.
The British establishment always tries to be sneaky, but it never learns. The law of unforseen consequences and all that. Ouch!
The only reason Kinnock can be called ‘left’ now is because the party have moved so far to the right. He certainly did not appear left wing when he was kicking good socialists out of the party.
Hi Legerwood @6.58pm, you say that you have “seen lots of comments on here about people out canvassing etc but so far where I am I have not seen hide nor hair of any SNP presence in person or on paper.”
I don’t know which part of the country you’re based, but here in West Aberdeenshire & Kincardineshire teams of canvassers have been out knocking on doors most evenings for weeks now.
It’s a huge constituency, it stretches from the outskirts of Aberdeen city to beyond Ballater and Breamar and down over the Mearns to the border with Angus. We’re determined to visit every single household in the area.
During the referendum it was often difficult to get volunteers to turn up for regular canvassing slots, it was always the same faces that turned up, week-in, week-out.
Things have changed though, now every town and every village in the area has a core of volunteers ready to chap on doors, that’s something the other parties simply can’t replicate. The more volunteers we have, the more time we can spend speaking with neighbours and sharing ideas on the doorsteps.
I’ve no idea where you’re based Legerwood, but I’d encourage you to volunteer for canvassing. It’s great fun and very worthwhile.
All the Best – John
Apparently the reason for McGovern’s resignation in Dundee West is ill-health but this seems strange to me 34 days before the election with only 6 days to go until candidates need to be confirmed? Interested to see who they parachute in? Can only be good news for Chris Law! Can’t see McGovern being the defection though. I’ve always thought Katie Clark might see the light but maybe not this close to the election. She is speaking alongside Nicola at the Anti Trident rally in Glasgow tomorrow. I’ll let you know if there are any big announcements!
The Times in Scotland today …
http://tinyurl.com/m9rxxwk
English version ….
http://tinyurl.com/l598dh5
Significantly different spin on same event! Different countries, different agendas.
Katie Clark is speaking at the CND rally tomorrow alongside Nicola. If she is to be defecting to SNP this would be an ideal opportunity to do it.
Re Mr McGovern – I don’t know anything about his reasons for quitting. His ill-health is nobody’s business.
I find the speculation on here, especially the conspiracy stuff, very unseemly.
It’s not what Wings is about. So can we forget about it and move on?
What ever his reasons we should be dignified enough to accept and respect his decision.
Let’s wait to hear who his replacement will be and focus our energy on fighting that fight and ensuring our preferred candidate gets elected.
@Ian M 7.21
“Nicola also did not want to inflict too much damage on Labour in England as it might help the tories win more seats and she wants to have the balance of power”.
Labour are quite capable of helping the Tories into power all by themselves.
They are an utter bomb scare from John O Groats to Lands end, they are unelectable (without the help of the SNP).
The games a bogey for the reds under the Tory bed covers.
@Joemcg says: 3 April, 2015 at 5:08 pm:
“Patrick-I have a pathogical hatred of that rat face Alexander and I’m praying he is kicked out. He seems to be pulling a few favours and is appearing on anything and everything”,
Just remember, Joemcg, that getting your face and comments on TV and Radio can have two different effects, as more than one ‘Celeb has found out to their cost.
You can become a ‘Celeb without a single saving talent other than to get your face on the box or you can become an equally hated figure if you make mistakes.
Good one. Probably the most sensible commentary about the Labour position I’ve seen, and it makes you wonder just why trad media can’t do the same. Or not wonder!
What I’d add is that it leaves Murphy high and dry, being able to take only the few leftie scraps that Miliband can afford to push off his table. Which is why Murphy is concentrating on policies for 2016 and Holyrood, hoping that most people don’t know what’s devolved, and what isn’t.
The long-term future for Labour in Scotland is indeed to break away from UK Labour, when they could happily pursue whatever left policies they wanted, but still be partners to the UK Labour at Westminster, under a genuine separate leader. I personally think Murphy would be the best for that job, and he has shown hints that he’s prepared to do just that – if he survives 7th May – which he should do as he’s the best person for the job, whatever we nats think.
I would be very surprised if anyone defects at this late hour.
@Alastair
3 April, 2015 at 4:47 pm
The arrogance of saying its a two horse race and only Miliband or Cameron can be MP..
————-
Realistically, only one of them will be PM.
But the SNP can be riding one of the horses – pulling the reins..
Handshrimp. 🙂
That’s a cracker of a picture. The wee lassie is sooooooo happy. ( got wee bit dirt in my eye ;0 )
This is why we want indi. To give our kids their country back. They are our future.
Great article Stu.
I seriously think SNP will still win the SE with ease. labour are dead here. The hangerons will not vote Labour for fear their council tax goes up.
But we know the rules Stu . it’s not over till it’s over. No slacking and taking for granted.
But it really is nice just now.
Go Scotland. 🙂
As far as Douglas Alexander being on TV so much is concerned I say the more the merrier. His face shows it, his mannerisms show it, he sighs or makes noises, and looks like he’s lost it. What he says doesn’t make sense, doesn’t relate, and says nothing of interest. He’s a goner, and the more he’s on, the more he takes the remnants of the branch office down with him.
Juteman says: 3 April, 2015 at 6:09 pm:
I posted,“Sadly I have to disillusion you if you think the biggest backer of Labour is Unite.”
You replied“Westminster is far more powerful than Unite”.
Which seems totally divorced to either what you posted or what I replied.
Westminster neither funds nor backs the Labour Party, (except as being part of the Establishment), and their financial backers are now mainly big business and the Trade Unions and of all their donated cash the Unite Union gave them most.
yesindyref2.
Nah I don’t know a single person that want’s Jim Murphy anywhere near govt. He is a liar and changes tune everyday. Sheer desperation from a bully and no one can ever trust him.
he’s turned around almost every policy he argued for in the ref. We know he’s only interested in himself and is for the sack soon.
So you say he’s the right man for the job while the whole of Scotland deserts the labour party in droves.
Shocked you think so. he has failed Slab. A Blairite not welcome by his own party in WM.
After the election slaughter Murphy and Dug will be voted out as useless . But i doubt anything can save Slab now.
Just saying 🙂
I hope Nicola and the SNP go for Labours and the Lib Dems jugulars in the remaining debates, show them no mercy. The Brit Nats will show us none, rip their throats out and watch the pair of them bleed dry.
Two subjects to this post…
1. McGovern’s reason for withdrawing.
I read this web page through a link on a Facebook page on Tuesday.
http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2015/03/15/i-ve-revised-my-general-election-predictions-for-scotland-it-means-a-minority-government-looms-ever-more-likely
The pertinent sentence is right at the end of 14 Dundee West.
“There are rumours that Jim McGovern is being pressured to stand aside for a new candidate.”
.
2.
Back on 21st November 2014 (the Day before the Wings get-together in Glasgow and Nicola’s Hydro gig), Rev Stu posted this:
“We’ve still got cash left over in the Wings kitty and it’s only £500 for an election deposit. We think it’s about time that we put up our own candidate, either at the next available by-election or at the 2015 general election.
We’re not even joking. We’re going to do it. Because it looks like ANYONE can beat the Lib Dems now.”
And he typed that here:-
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-time-is-right/
So, me and Pete the Camera managed to get some badges made for the Wings get-together on the 22nd November in Glasgow.
(See link below.) Some of you may possess these badges…
I recently sent Rev Stu a collection of badges that we’ve put together since August last year. In his email reply, he said that he’s definitely wearing this one the next time he’s asked on TV – the one we managed to put together for the November meet.
https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/badge-designs/WOSomerset-46mm-crop.jpg
REV—if you get go to bbqt Bristol
your pal,douglas alexander,labour is on
take the smile off his face
mind you with sturgeon debating with Jim the night before,he might not have one
Just been watching CHARIOTS OF FIRE and the iconic scene when Eric Lidell gets pushed off the racing track, falls, but gets back up again, catches up with the rest of the pack and wins the race.
Quite a good symbol for how we were all battered on 19 September, but picked ourselves up, set to work with even more determination and powered through to win the event…
Re SLAB possible defections to the SNP. If any of these turkeys were considered for SNP membership I for one would be resigning. I truly cannot imagine in my darkest moments any of SLABS finest being welcomed into the party. Just think about it, Davidson, Murphy, Curran, Alexander, nough said!
@Lollysmum
Thank you. My earlier reply to you has disappeared.
Nah, I think Katy Clark could be…
On second thoughts, surely any defection couldn’t be an MP anyway as they’d end up standing against another SNP candidate for a seat in May, that’ll never happen and would rule out Katie Clark.
If the rumour is true it’d have to be an MSP then.
It’s the dirty tricks dept. Again.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/nicola-sturgeon-admits-the-snp-prefer-cameron-to-miliband/
This goes to the very core of why the UK is breaking up. From 1945 until the 1980s a broad consensus still existed whereby a Labour Govt was not offensive to SE English voters and a tory one was not particularly bad for Scotland – the UK worked after a fashion. Thatcher was determined not just to win the game but to change it entirely and she achieved this (which is why, as a socialist, counts her as one of the most important British PMs in the 20th century even though I hated her). Now the Labour party finds it impossible to bridge the gap between Scotland and SE England and increasingly struggles to appeal to both at once. In 2015 and for all years beyond, this is now an impossible task. Labour must abandon Scotland or abandon power in the UK.
Yesindyref2 @8.38. Seriously? You think Murphy would even be considered to lead anything again in Scotland?
He is toxic waste, surely even if Labour wanted to reinvent themselves here, everyone with a passing interest, now knows this man’s true colours.
Everyone said last year, please appoint him, he will be a gift, and so he has been.
I couldn’t be more disgusted with the BBC right now….and that’s saying something. It’s particularly galling that the BBC “Scotland” don’t have the balls to be honest and publish the fact that our FM absolutely nailed it…in front of a hand picked audience in Manchester. Offer an alternative to Austerity and you’ll be summarily marginalised is their clear agenda. Nowhere is this more obvious than the BBC up here. Self serving Traitors just like the Labour Party in Scotland. I struggled to get motivated this morning as a direct result of listening to Radio Scotland’s summary first thing. Were they watching the same debate? WTF! Never again. I need to get to work on time and not miss out on my cereal! Still Raging
telegraph smear breaking
By Simon Johnson, and Peter Dominiczak9:30PM
Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP leader, has privately said that she would “rather see” David Cameron win the general election because Ed Miliband is not “prime minister material”, a leaked memorandum seen by The Daily Telegraph has revealed.
The SNP leader told the French Ambassador in February that she would prefer that “David Cameron remain” in Downing Street, according to an official account of their conversation seen by this newspaper.
The disclosure undermines public claims made by Miss Sturgeon this week that she wants to build a “progressive” alliance with Ed Miliband and other left-wing parties to keep the Conservatives out of office.
It appears to confirm growing speculation in Scotland that the SNP would privately favour another Conservative-led Westminster government – which it could campaign against in a bid to stoke up anti-English sentiment and make an “out” vote more likely in another referendum.
The Daily Telegraph has seen the official British Government memorandum which includes details of a private meeting between Miss Sturgeon and Sylvie Bermann, the French Ambassador to the UK.
The memorandum which was written by a senior British civil servant, dated March 6th, states: “Just had a telephone conversation with Pierre-Alain Coffinier (PAC), the French CG [consul-general]. He was keen to fill me in on some of the conversations his Ambassador had during her visit to Scotland last week. All of this was given on a confidential basis.”
It continues: “The Ambassador….had a truncated meeting with the FM [Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister] (FM running late after a busy Thursday…). Discussion appears to have focused mainly on the political situation, with the FM stating that she wouldn’t want a formal coalition with Labour; that the SNP would almost certainly have a large number of seats… that she’d rather see David Cameron remain as PM (and didn’t see Ed Miliband as PM material).”
The civil servant appeared so surprised by the private admission made by Miss Sturgeon that he questioned whether there might have been an issue with the “translation” during the conversation.
However, it was later established that the conversation took place in English as all the French officials are fluent.
It is a common diplomatic courtesy if an ambassador to the UK visits one of the three devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland for the British Government to be given an official readout of the conversation although the SNP leader, who has only been in position since the autumn, may have been unaware of this formality.
The disclosure of her private comments may undermine Miss Sturgeon’s new-found popularity.
She is increasingly seen as a potential “kingmaker” in any Coalition talks as Labour support in Scotland has slumped with the SNP expected to gain dozens of seats in next month’s general election.
Yesterday, Miss Sturgeon was mobbed after she returned to Scotland in scenes reminiscent of the “Cleggmania” recorded after the Liberal Democrat leader’s success in the 2010 general election debates.
In other developments in the election campaign on Friday
Mr Miliband was being urged by senior Labour MPs to consider pulling out of a second debate with Miss Sturgeon and other minority parties amid concerns that they will “hang the issue of austerity around his neck”.
It was disclosed that Nigel Farage’s suggestion during the debate that foreigners with HIV should not be treated on the NHS was a carefully planned move to fire up Ukip’s core vote, a strategy insiders have dubbed “shock and awful”.
George Osborne, the Chancellor, and Michael Gove, the Chief Whip, repeatedly refused to rule out a power sharing agreement with Ukip in the event of a hung parliament.
A senior City figure warned of the damage that an uncertain election campaign may have on the financial markets
Despite official statistics saying that living standards are improving, Labour will release a campaign poster this weekend claiming that Tory policies cost families £1,100 a year
Miss Sturgeon’s comments may threaten the SNP’s huge opinion poll lead in Scotland, which is built on the support of traditional Labour voters who have grown disillusioned with the party but remain hostile to the Tories.
Yesterday, unaware that the memo had been leaked to the Daily Telegraph, she continued to openly back Mr Miliband.
“If the SNP and Labour combined have more MPs than the Tories do – if there is an anti-Tory majority – we can lock David Cameron out of Downing Street,” she said.
“I’ve challenged Ed Miliband, and I do so again: if we have that anti-Tory majority, the SNP has said we will vote to stop a Tory government even getting off the ground.”
Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, and Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said the “astonishing” account of her comments proves that the SNP really wants a Tory Government with few or no MPs in Scotland, allowing the party to push the case for a second independence referendum.
Mr Murphy said: “This is a devastating revelation that exposes the uncomfortable truth behind the SNP’s General Election campaign. For months Nicola Sturgeon has been telling Scots she wants rid of David Cameron yet behind closed doors with foreign governments she admits she wants a Tory Government. It’s déjà vu all over again – the SNP say one thing in public but another private.”
Mr Rennie said: “It is astonishing that Nicola Sturgeon can look people in the eye and declare the SNP would never support the Conservatives in government when in private she secretly wants them to win.
“Despite her fluffy, positive words about working with the rest of the UK this reveals her sole ambition is to break up the UK. I’ve no doubt that the Tories in government alone would fuel the Nationalist fires. She is open with foreign diplomats about her wishes now she needs to end the chicanery and be open with the voters.”
@papadox,
I would welcome Katy Clark.She has principles,
@bookie, we knew the real crap had yet to start. I see that’s at 9.30, so they managed in 24 hours of her great performance, to concoct something.
@Handandshrimp
If a picture paints a thousand words.
Simply a superb image of that wee girl and Nicola and goes right to the heart of both the SNP and the wider progressive movement in Scotland.
Can anyone, I mean anyone imagine any other party leader having this effect on a child?
The media, the establishment, the metro set, all to this day still miss the point of YES Scotland. They miss the significance of popular ‘sexy’ socialism. The idiots in their arrogance consider it purely political, purely about power and government. They can’t understand why the likes of Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon command the popular respect of so many.
The answer is so blindingly obvious and for the life of them its beyond their ability to see.
They care.
You strip the politician and the party from Alex or Nicola and you have people with heart who care for their family, friends, community and country. From the poorest on up and even for those who don’t care for them. Our whole bloody movement is about caring what happens from our governance on down to the neighbour next door. You know that even without the politics those two would still find a way to help others.
To those who’ve had the pleasure of encountering our former and present FM, its the first thing that strikes you is their enthusiasm and confidence, the same enthusiasm and confidence they want others to have.
They have what’s known as the ‘common touch’ or to be more accurate before being a politician they’re oor ain folk.
The more exposure they receive, the more people see this for themselves, the more popular they become. What we’ve seen in Nicola for years, the rest of the UK caught a glimpse of last night.
Yer damn right the establishment and the ‘politicians’ are pooping their pants, because its not just Alex and Nicola, its all of us. We’ve realised there is another way to do things and another way to live and prosper that doesn’t rely on entrenched archaic power structures and crapping on others to get things done.
Sexy. 🙂
Re torygraph above… I smell …..
Leaked memo: Telegraph says a note of a note of a conversation says Sturgeon would rather see Cameron as PM as Ed is not up to the job.
Sturgeon says: totally untrue. All on Radio 5 live. Also on twitter.
Dirty tricks department? ..damaging to SNP says BBC.
Michael Marra, brother of Jenny Mara, is in the running for standing in Dundee West apparently.
I see the British establishment have already started their smears against the SNP after the debate. Telegraph, Spectator, and the increasingly right wing Guardian latching on to Tory-SNP supposed deal/fix bollocks. Sadly no surprise Severin Carroll is involved. Sturgeon has already said it is false.
Nice tweet summarising the debate:
Callum McClune ?@CallumForTheWin · 23h23 hours ago
4 men fighting for power. 3 women fighting for change
The establishment is frightened! It is the Return of Project Fear, soon be time to dust out The Glorious Vow again…
Nicola to Telegraph: “your story is categorically, 100%, untrue…which I’d have told you if you’d asked me at any point today”
Methinks it is a mistake to anger Sturgeon, who is the better politician than anyone in the establishment, along with the whole of the SNP. Nicola, we have your back!
@Alastair at 4.47
Dunno if this helps ref. the point you make about a leader of a smaller party becoming P.M. But it’s not unprecedented where the leader of a “faction” of a party can become or continue to be PM.
The most recent (I think) would be 1931 when Ramsay Macdonald’s then labour party split (over Sterling/Gold standard crisis and wage cuts). Caused a constitutional crises because neither Torys nor Liberals could command a majority in the house. Therefore Macdonald agreed to stay on as PM leading the National Government made up of Liberals, Tories and a rump/faction of the split Labour party. Meanwhile the rest/remainder of the Labour party became the official opposition.
Something similar happened with H.H.Asquith’s Liberal Govt. which I think split over Irish and Scottish home rule Bills before WW1.
An earlier event was in the 1840’s (during the Irish Famine) when Sir Robert Peel (Tory) “crossed floor” and voted with the Whigs to repeal the ‘Corn Laws’. This split the Tories leaving a rump of “protectionist” Tories. Whilst the Peelites would go on to permanently join with the Whigs to become the Liberal party. Although before that it was mooted that Peel would become PM leading a ‘Peelite’ ‘Whig’ and ‘Radical’ government. Although pretty sure this never came about mainly because Peel fell of a horse and died .
(Never seems to end well…)
We have a couple of interesting livestreams tomorrow. The first is Scrap Trident from George Square, Glasgow and the second is the Home Rule Rally from Cardiff.
Checkout our website for details and please share and tweet events.
http://www.independencelive.net
I see both Dugdale and Ruth Davidson jumping in with both feet on twitter regarding the Telegraph smear
Both of them are a disgrace
Its clear the establishment are shitting bricks after last night
Nicola has completely denied that Torygraph story, and tweeted the author of the piece, to tell him so.
As od yet he hasn’t replied.
As the Daily Mail published disinformation (see the infamous Zinoviev Letter) in an attempt to discredit the Labour Party back in 1924, so the Daily Telegraph, with the apparent cooperation of the British civil service, follows suit in 2015. The British Establishment is at (dirty) work again. It proves that they are shitting themselves. Good. Let them drown in their own excrement.
Learned the real meaning of the word ‘impartial’ during the indyref. You can’t be impartial,then partial when it suits,then back to impartial again.
Once you are not impartial…
@handandshrimp
Cracking photo of that wee girl and Nicola…
Even BBC’s James Cook looks happy -surely he is not going native?
Michelle Thomson looks great as well – Go Michelle in Edin West!
@papdox
Katie Clark would be fine as a SNP MSP. Maybe too late(?) for her to jump ship to SNP for GE but good timing to inflict maximum damage on Murphy and then pick up a Holyrood seat next year.
She has voted against the Labour whip lots of times and is more aligned to SNP policy especially on Trident.
Here is another picture than paints a thousand words…
https://bellacaledonia.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/screen-shot-2014-12-14-at-15-23-30.png
Im sure better together leaks from embassys around the world slandering Scotland would be most helpful
haud on the noo says:
3 April, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Re torygraph above… I smell …..
McTernan?
What’s this = smears from the Telegraph on a quote from a British Civil Servant’-surely no.
Is this the same Civil service that fcuked us over on the refendum—Awwww =that civil service.
And by the way yesindyref2 @8.38 .this ain’t the Jim murphy Appreciation Society-wrong site m8
The SNP rabid haters at the Totygraph make up a story to feed the MSM and create a story loop to run and run (egg-gate, cybernats etc). Cockers must be really pissed that Alec’s book is so much better than his delusional crap.
Torygraph is the voice of the establishment and they know that Labour playing ball is better than the SNP seeing the accounting books of WM UK ltd.
It just shows how far Labour has shifted in my lifetime that to be described as ‘let-wing’ is seen as a negative thing. Tories have principles I shall always disagree with but Labour have one principle, power at any price, which I find grotesque. They do not have not political ‘shifts’ in the sense of re-evaluating certain political beliefs. Labour’s ‘shift’ is expedient based on what focus groups and think-tanks believe they should say or do to be elected. Snake oil salesmen, people-pleasers and approval seekers, con artists, call them what you will, they all fit.
Macart says:
To those who’ve had the pleasure of encountering our former and present FM, its the first thing that strikes you is their enthusiasm and confidence, the same enthusiasm and confidence they want others to have.
I totally agree with you there Macart. I had the extreme pleasure of meeting Alex Salmond in Carlisle last year on St. Georges day of all days 😉 when he was giving a speech to businessmen and women about Scottish independence and how it would/would not affect them.
What was noticeable was the time he was prepared to spend with everyone. In between doing interviews he was speaking to small groups of people after his speech. He must have spent at least another hour just talking to people and signing the white book. 😛
It was, in my view, such an honour to meet him in person. It made up for missing him on the 2013 March for independence when I met Nicola and had a quick photo taken. 😀
I see that’s at 9.30, so they managed in 24 hours of her great performance, to concoct something.
Being so quick off the mark tells us they are scared. The more scared they are, the more transparent the whole charade becomes, as in the last week of the Referendum campaign.
The sudden realisation that many in England liked what the SNP is saying must have rung alarm bells in Downing St. I wonder if that was what the slightly odd expression on Camerons face during the debate was about.
Regarding the disgraceful BBC.. cancel your tv licence!!
I did after the Referendum and I feel a bit better that at least I’m not contributing to funding their blatant lies and scaremongering.. I really hate them with a passion!!
As I said previously, the MSM had to trash Labour first before they could start on the SNP. The required trick is to ensure that Miliband does not make it to No 10, and then quickly, in the time remaining, make sure that the SNP surge is stalled. So we have another five years of blue tories, with red tories holding the line for them in Scotland. They had to bring it (smears) forward by a couple of weeks because NS is beginning to steal the show. A panic attempt to nip the bud etc.
The one big miscalculation they have made this time is the people of Scotland. Scotland will not put up with another five years of tory government that they did not vote for. Not now, not after everything we have been through since 2011. The bud can no longer be nipped because it is already a massive tree. If they think they can enginner another tory govermnent on Scotland, they have learned nothing since 2011.
I think it is a good sign that “they” are resorting to The Telegraph, the ultimate establishment mouthpiece and disgrace to proper journalism (planted Ministry of Defence stories which are found out to be lies, recent HSBC scandal). The Daily Record is no longer big enough to contain Nicola, Leanne, Natalie and the voice of sanity and caring politics for the people.
But once they run out of all this, what will be left? We have had Project Fear and all the bias from BBC Labour for years… but now there is no one left to hoodwink. If you are gullible enough to believe their lies, you will have been deluded long ago, while those outside will never believe!
The making up of stories means that they have been unable to find any dirt on Nicola or any of the SNP members! On the other hand, real crimes such as paedophilia in Westminster, the royal family and the BBC are covered up for decades…
So what next? They wheeled out Betty Battenburg for the referendum campaign? They even brought in Obama. So what is left? God says: “SNP bad”???
YESGUY / Valerie
Strangely enough I’m serious. It’s not him that’s killing off Labour in Scotland, it’s mostly the rest of the Westminster MPs, the UK Labour party and its refusal to change its tune to the new mood in Scotland. Murphy,(bless him!!??) has shown signs of awareness, which is more than can be said for just about all the MPs, apart from Katy Clarke. He may have learnt a thing or two on his Irn-bru crate tour of the 100 capital cities of Scotland. I wouldn’t underestimate him, or his survival instincts.
FFS – how low will the BBC sink in their attempts to discredit the SNP?
I think I just heard a paid professional BBC Scotland reporter (I think his name is Cook) state that according to some unnamed French ambassador who heard it from the French consul in Edinburgh (or it might have been the cleaner or the cleaner’s mum) that Nicola Sturgeon told him that she’d rather see Cameron in number 10 and that Ed wasn’t PM material (that bit’s true right enough). Nothing like reliable sources and this is indeed nothing like reliable sources but the BBC report this crap like it’s gospel.
This is a new low even for the Labour Party propaganda department that is BBC Scotland! Bottom of the barrel stuff but they must be desperate if this is the best they can come up with!
The smear story just goes to show how much they’re pissin their pants.LOL
And I’d just like to say Nicola played a blinder,along with the other 2 ladies and we are actually looking at the Fall of the House of Westminster right there.
It’s not obvious at this moment how huge that debate was.
Showed up the old boys network for the pathetic SHAM that it is.
They thought it wasnt all over.
It is now.
Westminster R.I.P.
Rev,
Regarding “question time” in Bristol, nope, you have not a hope in hell of getting passed the “vetting ” system, your a marked man, —man.
I’m sure B.B.C. Scotland monitor this site, and a warning will have been sent.
cant wait for the better together leaks Russian embassy,about Scotland
… I LOVE it !!!, it’s so Machiavellian, Machiavelli would have struggled to orchestrate such a political scenario … ah! the Westminster establishment caught in it’s own spiders web !!! … the delicious irony.
Och well, it was about time the dirty tricks fired up. State Broadcaster relishing in this French Ambassador story. Sounds like Chinese Whispers if not a downright fabrication.
Perhaps any BBC news/camera teams at tomorrows ‘Bairns not Bombs’ rally should be confronted and prevented from filming, nothing intimadatory of course just a wee bit of unfortunate obstruction.
From the Guardian;
‘French consul general tells @GdnScotland no such views given by @NicolaSturgeon “absolutely no preference was expressed” on #GE2015 outcome’
Reformed Better Together?
Ha ha FFS Katie Clark has nae feckin principles. She is a fully paid up member of the fictional Scottish Labour Party.The enemy of the Scottish people.
Horrific chat,we’ve moved on and thankfully left that sheeeite behind last September.
It’s lapsed Labour voters we need no these self serving shitehawks!!!
Lucky we have been through this is September,so I simply blow a raspberry to them….but as I do not know the text for this….I will just go for a trad. Insult……kindobbers 😉 .
Peter Murrell has just tweeted this about Nicola Sturgeon wanting the Tories in power after GE 2015.
BOOM!! French consul general tells @GdnScotland no such views given by @NicolaSturgeon “absolutely no preference was expressed” on #GE15
Well what do you know?
BBC News, SKY News and the Telegraph cught out LYING … AGAIN!
As on Today on R4 this morning (about 2:34 in, and you can hear that Naughtie is in on it) we will now start hearing Tories say positive things about the SNP, in an attempt to make Scots think, ‘well if the Tories like them I can’t vote for them’.
If you hear this happening, it is evidence that Labour and the Tories are working together.
Bob Mack 10.07,
Re Katy Clark,where were her principles on September 18th? She campaigned and voted for London rule,Trident and all.Maybe she has realised she was wrong.Thousands of Scots are every day.We welcome converts every day.Anyone defecting to the SNP should first resign their seat and stand for selection as an SNP candidate for the byelection.
GrahamB:
I doubt there will be any sign of the BBC at the rally tomorrow as no doubt Freedom Square will be packed so they won’t wanna show that lol eh
Luigi 11.00
Nicely put,Luigi
The 45% and growing are a giant hardwood now they couldnt take down with a chainsaw.
This feeble attempt at arresting the Movement is quite laughable.
However we do know there will lots more where that came from so no complacency on my part.
Severin tweeting the French Consul message.
This one is really weird. I wonder who was behind it? The Tories? It does leave the message that Ed isn’t up to the job even if it is retracted.
Head to Head Ed outpointed Dave in both debates. I hold no candle for Labour these days but this is pretty low. It is also clearly designed to drive a wedge in any possible support even if retracted.
When we do get our independence (soon) and we kick the BBC out and have them replaced for good, let’s have a party outside Pacific Quay and wave them Cheerio!!
@bookie from hell 10.02pm
Did Jim Murphy actually say “It’s déjà vu all over again”.
Obviously I am not going to take anything written by Simon Johnson at the Telegraph as having been checked for accuracy.
Of course(if said) Jim might not understand that `déjà vu` means, already seen or all over again, because it is French and French not being Jim`s language he has misinterpreted its meaning which can easily happen when interpreting between different languages.
The boy Simon Johnson at the Telegraph has `Crossed the Rubicon`on this,there is no way back for him,I hope he remembers what is happening to Andy Coulson , the minute The Telegraph starts to feel the backlash on this Simon Johnson will be dropped and disowned by the Telegraph and he will probably be looking at jail time.
The whole fabrication stinks of McTernan.
This episode reminds me of the fabricated letter that was in the Daily Mail four days before the 1924 General Election. History now repeating itself. No internet to debunk stories in those days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter
Just everyone is clear. The article in the Telegraph is a flat out LIE.
https://twitter.com/severincarrell/status/584113809633239040
Now I think it is fair to say that Severin Carrell is no fan of Scottish independence or the S.N.P. but when he tweets about the Telegraph article being a LIE then this really is BIG news.
I was just wondering here.
Could the Telegraph article be viewed as libel?
Just thinking out loud you understand. I think it could be exztremely interesting if this can be viewed under Scots law as a libeous act by the Telegraph. 😉
Re the Telegraph article, I presume it’s connected with “Iain Martin is Editor of CapX”, which seems to be the source of a quote from OBE in the Herald today.
@thomaspotter2014
Interesting you say that about Wings not being a Murphy appreciation society, I’d never have known.
However, if you think through the consequences of a near wipeout of Labour in Scotland on May 7, Murphy setting up a geuine Scottish Labour Party (which he has hinted at), with left-wing policies, connecting with the people who were most likely to have voted YES, Sturgeon going through with her hints of a 2nd Referendum in the 2016 manifesto, and the 2nd Referendum in, say, 2018, then ask yourself, which way will chameleon Murphy take his party?
It might mean people have to prioritise their desire for Independence, with their dislike of Murphy. As far as I’m concerned if that happened it’d be “Jim, can I buy you a coffee?”.
Lesley-Ann
In Scotland it would be defamation. I would like Nicola to sue them in both the English and Scottish courts. Then all the people behind the smearing would have to be identified. We have a few QC’s standing for Westminster, I am sure they would do it for nothing.
That party with the ambassador…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P-nZZkQqTc
From the SNP website, Kevin Pringle: “The fictitious story on front of Telegraph & Mail has just been comprehensively dismantled on BBC News Channel newspaper review.”
The Tories are making mistakes, and the more they get to panic, the more mistakes they’ll make. I posted on SGP I think it was, that with that garbage story in the Scotsman copied by Gardham in the Herald, saying the 40 seat poll showing a 6% lead for SNP if repeated all over Scotland would give Labour 27 seats.
That Labour are probably pulling all the favours they have with journos to try to save their bacon, even if it burns the journos and papers. It looks like the Tories are doing the same with the Telegraph. What a shame.
@Yesindyref2
Jim Murphy’s a weird freek.Now eff off.
Funny, funny, very very funny.
It does occur to me that the French would be perfectly happy to see the Tories discredited. But then I’ve got a suspicious mind.
I do not think Jim Murphy is a good leader for a true labour party in Scotland. He is not a socialist or a social democrat, and it seems perfectly clear to me that the average labour voter is: that is why they are moving to support for a social democratic party in the shape of SNP.
I do believe that Scotland has room for both tory and labour parties which return to the basic post war consensus model, and after independence I fully expect that those parties will emerge. It is possible that Ruth Davidson might lead one of those, IMO, but it is not possible Mr Murphy would lead the other. Indeed I do not think any of the current leadership of labour in Scotland could do it, for they are neoliberals to a man and woman. In fact I think Johann Lamont has a better chance, and that is saying something
Scot Finlayson says:
@bookie from hell
Did Jim Murphy actually say “It’s déjà vu all over again”.
Aye he did guys. I’ve just seen his tweet as I posted a link to Severin Carrell in reply. 😀
Thanks for the correction Marcia. I never was much good with all these legalese terms. 😉
Auld Cockers at it as well, Nicola fighting back. 🙂
https://archive.today/E6XFI
StevieMcB:
Thanks for the Telegraph link.
Nicola should sue the ass off them. What an absolute disgrace.
‘Deja vu all over again’ is satirical, Ive used it myself.
I wont be using it again.
FFS people, it’s the week-end, eh?
Let them eat their ain ba-hairs ower aw this pish…
Gregory Isaacs, ‘Rumours’ –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JR8HVN_50U
Stevie boy says:
StevieMcB:
Thanks for the Telegraph link.
Nicola should sue the ass off them. What an absolute disgrace.
If you think about it she can have two chunks out of the one paper here and at least one chunk out of another.
Chunk #1
Sue the earse off the Telegraph for the original LIES in the original article.
Chunk #2
Sue even MORE earse off the Telegraph for the shite printed by Cochrane
Chunk #3
sue the earse off the Scottish Daily Mail for the same reason as Chunk #1
😀
Earses will be sued 🙂
#nikileaks
Yeah, plus we can have these earses exposed for the scum they are 😉
Ian
Sorry,got it bad tonight, and workin tomorrow 🙁
@Fiona
Problem is, who else do they have? Findlay is too much of an SNP-hater, though he was liked by the unions. The unions do seem to have started liking Murphy as he moves left, or apparently does. Katy Clarke would be a possibility though.
@dakk
Get it right …
Luckily, the French ambassador thing is a good one for the Labour media to use against the Tories and Tory rags, and that from Severin’s tweet, is more important than their hatred of the SNP. Which means the SNP probably ahve to do very little in terms of the London based media.
Scottish media is different. The Herald played it straight in the article, even calling the Telegraph the Tory Telegraph, but still managed the headline “Nicola Sturgeon denies bombshell claim she told French: I want Cameron in Downing Street”. Unfortunately I didn’t read the article properly and went in with the wellies unusally for me, then found it had written about the French Ambassador’s denial, so I had to retract and I’m stuck for going further.
Fortunately, the good Prof was first on the thread with an excellent posting.
It’s a win-win for the Tories. They scare Labour voters, floating voters and UKIP voters (who will fear splitting the right-wing vote). As usual this has bitten them on the arse. Nicola Sturgeon performed to the highest standard possible, even the BBC had to admit it. Then they put the story in The Telegraph about the French Ambassador. Obviously HAD to be them abusing their position. Immediately denied and obvious neither side had been asked to respond despite the fact that they DID have time to get quotes from both Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy and Willie Rennie too.
Best piece of political writing and analysis I have ever seen. Fantastic read!