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The proof of the pudden

Posted on July 18, 2017 by

Here’s Kezia Dugdale in the Daily Record today:

If only there was somewhere that Labour DID already run the NHS so that we could judge the truth of that claim, eh readers?

(In the latest data, NHS Scotland is treating 95.3% of A&E patients within the four-hour target, compared to just 80.9% in Wales.)

(While over 4,000 Welsh patients waited more than 12 hours to be seen, the figure in Scotland – a much bigger country – for the same month was just 377.)

Careful what you wish for, voters.

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125 to “The proof of the pudden”

  1. donald anderson says:

    Mustn’t mention Labours’ record in office. All Corbyn voters in Scotland must have a secret Angel Islington post code.

  2. Muscleguy says:

    I fear for your motivation Rev, this is shooting fish in a barrel. Fish who have been sedated and made fluorescent and the gun is a shotgun.

  3. RIGMAC says:


    And the barrel is very tiny

  4. Jim says:

    Our hard working staff in education and medicine must be heart sick of the constant tirade of negativity towards them from the Labour branch office.

    Sure, all Governments must be held to account but this endles tirade of what amounts to the abuse of those hard working staff has got to stop.

    Things will never be perfect but as the story goes, look at the shit show that labour are making of the NHS in Wales and Dugdale, do you really beleive that is what we should be aspiring to?

    She should be bloody disgusted not only in the Welsh branch office but also in herself!

  5. HandandShrimp says:

    One of the reasons that Labour failed in 2007 was their incompetent managerial skills of the NHS. Their intent I do not fault. They are just crap at implementing that intent.

  6. Macart says:

    It’s becoming pretty tiresome watching Davidson, Dugdale and thingy constantly use our services and institutions as political coin.

    They have undermined so much faith and trust with their actions. They undermined so much hard work by the staff in our institutions. IMO it is quite simply a criminal act on their part. Their actions are putting people in harms way and jobs at risk.

    Pretty much most reasonable people are perfectly aware of the times we live in and the enormous financial pressures and constraints everyone is up against. Yet instead of praising our institutions and their workers for damn near heroic effort to maintain standards under these circumstances, they appear hell bent on their destruction in pursuit of political agenda.

    It’s almost beyond belief that those three and specifically in this case Ms Dugdale, are in public office at all.

  7. The good old Daily Ranter.
    Big photie of Kezia and a load of vacuous crap about how only Kezia can save the NHS and EssEnnPee are fucking Bad.
    Of course Dugdale’s off sunning herself somewhere, but the dutiful Dead Tree Scrolls still have her front and centre preaching pish.
    Her Press Office can submit any old lies and mince to the Record and they will print it.
    It’s called fascist propaganda.
    Well, David Clegg, explain why you are nothing but a paid for mouthpiece of an English Dominated oligarchy, why don’t you?
    Or is it ‘only politics’ in the Fatty Carmichael vein of lying through your teeth?
    I wouldn’t wipe my dug’s arse with this Rag.

  8. Capella says:

    After watching the Rob Shorthouse presentation on how to cynically manipulate voters’ feelings to secure the vote you want, Kezia’s article reads like part of the Project Fear message – Solidarity = Better Together.

    Watch the last 5 minutes where he shows the cynical use of nostalgia to “dial up” solidarity and remind voters of how better together we once were, allegedly. Iconic images plus soporific key words:

    As with the Indyref campaign, Labour reality is nothing like the rhetoric. Read the small print.

  9. Calum McKay says:

    Kezia, be careful for what you wish!

  10. Calum McKay says:

    Kezia, be careful what you wish for!

    If you get things that you desire, there may be unforeseen and unpleasant consequences for the people of Scotland.

    Kezia typifies the dead hand of labour, no clue, no plan and points the finger at things she does not understand. She reminds me so much of Ruth Davidson – two peas in a pod!

  11. Andy-B says:

    I can only imagine what state the NHS in Scotland would be in if the Labour branch office in Scotland and Dugdale were the government, it doesnt bear thinking about.

    I applaud those working in the NHS Scotland you folk do a wonderful job. The SNP, are doing a good in Scotland, the best governmemt by a mile on these dis-united islands.

    As for England, the NHS was disbanded in 2012 as far as I know, and recently the Red Cross, declared it a humanitarian crisis. As you said Wales doesn’t fair any better under a Labour government.

    We are very lucky to live in Scotland, however some folk don’t realise it yet.

  12. John says:

    Does this idiot ever think before she opens her mouth , she always manages to dig herself into a hole . SNP calamitous handling of the NHS , is she kidding ? .If Scottish Labour ever got their hands on the NHS or anything else for that matter , that would be disaster !

  13. Clootie says:–george-orwell-quotes-george-orwell-.jpg

    Labour would of course drop al targets by 10percent and announce the success of achieving this….much like the cut/increase in chocolate ration in “1984”

  14. Brian Powell says:

    Yes, but they’re voting for Corbyn, says Cat Boyd, so Magic will happen in Scotland, or something.

  15. Proud Cybernat says:

    Kezza looking more like Enya every day. Wish though she would just sail away, sail away, sail away into the Storms in Africa. And never come back.

    Once again we perceive SLabour’s tried and trusted method of winning votes in Scotland – if the truth won’t crack it just lie your frigging arse off. It’s the SLabour way.

    Nice try Kezza-babes but nae cigar, hen.

    PS Kezza – your party promised us Home Rule (not Devo) about 100 years ago. When can we expect SLabour to deliver Home Rule?

  16. Robert Graham says:

    Younger voters and those with a short memory span might be seduced by this latest junk from confused kezia , they might like some of the stuff that emanates from corbyn down south ,all for the most part actually in place and functioning here , courtesy of our government , a government kezia seeks to undermine at every turn.
    Corbyns version of the Labour party stops at the border , then we have Labour in Scotland , not supporting Scotland just in Scotland
    On the other hand older voters do and will remember some of the stuff Labour in Scotland were responsible for , and to this day people here are still paying for their total mismanagement .
    A long disastrous list here is a short version please feel free to add to it ,

    The Parliament Building 10 times over budget and two years late.

    PFI for Schools & Hospitals ( Cost eye watering ).

    The Edinburgh Tram fiasco One Billion pounds and still counting.

    The abandoned Glasgow Airport Railink ( total cost yet to be determined )

    Mr Jack McConnell returning money to westminster because Labour in Scotland couldn’t think of what do with it ,all Labour in Scotland do we really want them in charge again ? ,(rhetorical)

  17. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Kez and Co just can’t get over their breathtaking self-entitlement. They have learnt nothing over recent years, changed nothing, yet they somehow still expect to succeed.

    Nothing to contribute but relentless negativity accompanied by an annoying whine. It’s pitiful.

  18. Geronimo says:

    i must congratulate those NHS staff who work quite tirelessly maintaining standards etc….i do not see Miss Dugdales reasoning here other than political points scoring

  19. Liz g says:

    Robert j Sutherland @ 2.47
    More than pitiful Robert…. it’s the actual definition of insanity.
    To do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

  20. Allan says:

    Wait- make the richest pay their fair share? Like not cutting the top rate you mean?? Pretty sure you and the Tories were using that to lambast the Snp not long ago Kez. Did you think we wouldn’t remember?

  21. Brian Powell says:

    Seems to be widespread among Unionist politicians:

    Voters you choose if you want them.

  22. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    18 July, 2017 at 2:02 pm
    One of the reasons that Labour failed in 2007 was their incompetent managerial skills of the NHS. Their intent I do not fault. They are just crap at implementing that intent.

    You have to wonder why too. Well you dont have to, but its an odd band of SLab that’s saying vote SLab, even though we’re not great at all at running public sectors.

  23. If Labour ae so good for the NHS then why doesn’t Kezia Dugdale would like to remind voters of Labour’s record on the NHS here in Scotland when it was in power.

    There is plenty she can talk about, it was Labour that introduced prescription charges, down graded Hospitals, earmarked A&E depts, for closure, phased pay rises for nurses, waiting time targets which were missed, lowered or scrapped altogether because they weren’t achieved, the internal market, PFI, patients dying from hospital acquired infections.

    And who can possibly forget Jim Murphy’s mansion tax which was going to pay for an extra thousand nurses, the only problem was there were an insufficient number of valuable properties in Scotland to pay for those extra thousand nurses.

    Nor does Labour like Wales being mentioned at FMQs, every time the First minister Nicola Sturgeon has done so, Labour’s come back is this is First Minister’s questions and Nicola sturgeon is responsible for running the NHS in Scotland and not Wales.

    Dugdale’s up to the same Murphy trick, claiming only the rich in Scotland are going to be paying more, yeah right.

  24. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    The Weaponisation of Scotland’s Public Services for Political gain by the Unionist Parties is nothing short of a disgrace.

    However we all know that The Dug, Colonel Gadaftie and Wee Wullie 1p (for education, mental health etc.) WILL NEVER BE HELD TO ACCOUNT BY THE BRITNAT MEDIA IN SCOTLAND.

    It is ‘Save the Union at all cost’.

    Labour, Tory and Fib Dems consistently vote to/or abstain in cuts to Education, Health, Social Care, Police and Fire Budgets in Westminster with the cuts passed onto Holyrood via Barnett Consequentials.

    Labour, Tory and Fib Dems won’t vote to exempt Police Scotland from VAT.

    It is about time that the SNHS, Fire Service and Police Scotland Members came out publicly and challenged their Union Reps/Mouthpieces (BMA, RCN, RCM, FBU and SPF) to stand up and call out this shite.

    Where is the ‘Public Service Union for Independence’?

    Bet a Union up front like that would get a load of members AND THEIR FEES.

    Like the MSM and BBC in Scotland these buggers need starved of funds.

    The Dug, Gadaftie & Wullie 1p?

    History will remember them.

    Just not the way they’d want it to.

  25. Yerkitbreeks says:

    Pity we always have to respond so promptly-it’s not long since the shroud waving over stalled Scottish longevity but note today’s news on this topic for England

  26. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Labour, Tory and Fib Dems consistently vote to/or abstain in cuts to Education, Health, Social Care, Police and Fire Budgets in Westminster with the cuts passed onto Holyrood via Barnett Consequentials.”

    It’s all part of the British Nationalist parties’ plan. Allow cuts to go through WM (either by abstaining or actively voting for austerity cuts) because they know any cuts will inevitably bring cuts to Holyrood’s budget, making it increasingly difficult for the SG to make ends meet – and then the British Nationalist parties will shout and scream, “SNP BAAAAAD!!”

    They actively campaign in WM to HARM Scotland (Yoonies and Indies alike) and then blame the SNP Government for it.

    Seriously – the three British National parties really must think we’re a’ zipped up the back no’ tae see what they’re up to. They’re tactic is as transparent as a broken windae.

  27. Rock says:

    In my humble opinion, the SNP MSP literally in bed with Dugdale should be sacked from the SNP immediately.

    Truth Always.

  28. Graeme McCormick says:

    Before every electionJackie Baillie is adept at whipping up a fake campaign to save Vale of Leven Hospital. She transfers the blame from the Health Board to the Scottish government at will despite repeated denials from the Board and the Health Secretary of any such proposal.

    She uses her old TU comrades to man the barriers.

    She was challenged to apply to be CEO of the Health Board so that she could ensure that the Vale would not close. That was too much like responsibility for her.

  29. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Humour me then @ Rock says at 5:01 pm

    On what grounds should be sacked?

    Also would the grounds for her dismissal stand up at a tribunal??

    Scraping the barrel Rock.

  30. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:
    18 July, 2017 at 5:01 pm
    In my humble opinion, the SNP MSP literally in bed with Dugdale should be sacked from the SNP immediately.

    Truth Always.

    Is there no depth you wont go Rock, no rock you wont look under Rock, no seat you wont sniff?

    You know you’re a troll, just like that strange chap Colin A, when none of you ever say anything positive SNP, ever.

    Or Rock, let’s hear you say some nice things about SNP and SNP policies.

    Bet you have but none, seat sniffer.

    That’s knicked from an old Graun columnist, who described quite a lot of teamGB hackdom thusly.

  31. Petra says:

    I see that she’s skipped back to NHS 1948. What about telling us what Labour’s Wilson and Callaghan did in the 70’s with the McCrone Report or Labours’s Dewar and Blair in 1999 in relation to our stolen seas / 7 oil wells? Both of which resulted in Scotland being robbed blind of hundreds of billion of pounds. Robbed of money which could have made a massive positive difference to Scot’s lives, our NHS, education, poverty levels and so on.

    No mention either of her supporting staying in a Union that’s prepared to pull us out of the EU and the impact that’s having on numbers of nurses / care staff now bailing out of the UK / Scotland. Add to that a 96% drop in EU nurses / care staff applying to work in the UK / Scotland.

    Then there’s Trident that she’s quite happy to see sitting up the backside of a major Scottish city and forecast to cost us over £200 billion (and the rest) over time.

    I didn’t hear her say anything either about the despicable Tory / DUP deal. A deal that’s done us, Scots, out of £3 billion. I’m sure that would have made a major impact on dealing with SNHS challenges, as it surely will in Nireland.

    The only thing that ever comes out of her mouth is SNP Baad and it’s been pointed out to her by politicians in her own party that SHE was a main player in helping the Tories hold onto their power: And yet she’s still at it no doubt p*ssing off hundreds of thousands of NHS staff and millions of satisfied patients. Dugdale the wee wummin who tries to put her party before the people but can’t even get that right. What a waste of space.

  32. Morgatron says:

    Rock, i agree with you. Sack her. Surley a conflict of “something”.

  33. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    If a ‘conflict of something’ then why ‘sacked from the SNP immediately’? @Morgatron says at 5:33 pm?

    Why not side-line her or remove from committees etc. where confidential things/strategy etc. are discussed?

    I see you boys are trying to derail another Unionists being called out for hypocrisy thread early on.

    Never changes.

  34. Rock says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker,

    “On what grounds should be sacked?”

    Sleeping with the enemy is nothing less than treason, in my humble opinion.

    “Also would the grounds for her dismissal stand up at a tribunal??”

    The SNP as a political party can sack anyone at any time, if I am not mistaken.

    If she had any principles, she would have resigned.

    Truth always.

  35. Rock says:

    Rock (11th October 2015 – Super Spike Dislike),

    “We won’t get a second referendum for a generation unless the SNP gets a massive share of the vote.

    Stick to just one mantra: always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.”

    Is that positive enough for you heedtracker?

    Like the BBC’s discredited Nick Robinson, why do you keep on asking the same question when I have already answered it many times?

    Truth Always.

  36. Rock says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker,

    “Why not side-line her or remove from committees etc. where confidential things/strategy etc. are discussed?”

    In other words, sack her?

    “I see you boys are trying to derail another Unionists being called out for hypocrisy thread early on.”

    Dugdale is the second biggest hypocrite out of all the unionists.

    An SNP MSP getting into bed with her is totally unacceptable, in my humble opinion.

    Rock (11th October 2015 – Super Spike Dislike),

    “Remember too that the SNP has inevitably been infiltrated.”

    Truth Always.

  37. Gary45% says:

    Aye, but Labour get away with this garbage all the time.
    If you tell a lie often enough the sheep will believe anything you say.
    Labour= sticking their fingers in the eyes of the electorate for decades.
    (along with the rest of the YOONS )

  38. heedtracker says:

    Stick to just one mantra: always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.”

    Is that positive enough for you heedtracker?

    Truth Always.

    No its just more of your bullshit Rock, seat sniffing Dugdale’s private life is ofcourse an opportunity not to passed up. Its just a neat cover for another round of your style of SNP bad, independence worse. To be fair though Rock, your a seat sniffer but you are one of better UKOK fanatics online. That dude Colin A is actually a lot creepier.

    Note I dont say troll. What’s trolling if you all you want is to stop Scotland ending this farce union, dear seat sniffer?

    You never say tory bad, you never say SNP good, you always take relevant interesting, revelatory even btl Scottish issue/things and drag them away, from anything that might be even remotely interesting.

    It all just goes to show that despite yoon culture’s total tory domination of the hideous UK media, its still not enough.

    On Dugdale’s private life, its seat sniffers like you that are one step away from fascism, where people can never associate with anyone not on the “right” side.

    But again seat sniffer Rock, that’s not what you’re about at all.

  39. Legerwood says:

    On topic – BHS
    Workforce report March 2017 from Information Services Division Scotland

    “”Main points
    As at 31 March 2017:
    ? The 162,598 staff employed by NHSScotland represents an increase of 0.6% over the last year. Adjusting for part time working, the WTE has risen by 0.7% to 139,430.9. The WTE has risen by 6.3% since March 2012, representing 5 years of consecutive growth. While the number of staff continues to increase, the annual rate of growth has slowed down in the last 2 years.

    ? There were 5,189.2 WTE medical and dental consultants in post, representing an increase of 17.2% (761.5 WTE) over the last five years. While the number of consultants working in NHSScotland continues to increase, the annual rate of growth has decreased from 4.0% at 31 March 2016 to 1.4% at 31 March 2017.

    ? 7.4% (415.7 WTE) of consultant posts were vacant. This compares to 6.5% at 31 March 2016. Of these vacancies, 204.3 WTE were vacant for more than six months, an increase of 38.2 WTE.

    ? There were 59,798.6 WTE nursing and midwifery staff in post, representing an increase of 0.7% in the last year (426.2 WTE). Following a reduction in staff during 2012, the WTE has risen by 5.9% (3,331.3 WTE), representing 5 years of consecutive growth. While the number of staff continues to increase, the annual rate of growth has slowed down in the last 2 years.

    ? Nursing and midwifery vacancies have increased by 27.5% since March 2016 to 2,818.9 WTE. Of these vacancies, 670.6 WTE were vacant for 3 months or more, an increase of 227.5 WTE since 31 March 2016. The total number of vacancies is the highest ever reported by ISD but this is partly due to improved recording.

    ? The sickness absence rate for NHSScotland in 2016/17 was 5.20%, a slight increase from 5.16% 2015/16. Over the last ten years, the national rate has continued to exceed the current national standard of 4%, fluctuating between a low of 4.63% in 2011/12 to a high of 5.55% in 2006/07.

    ? NHSScotland spent a total of £166.5 million on nursing and midwifery bank and agency staff during the latest financial year. This represents an increase of £8.4 million (5.3%) in comparison to 2015/16. The majority of this spend was on bank staff (£142 million, an increase of 5.5% on the previous year) with the remaining spend on agency staff (£24.5 million, up 4.4%)””

  40. Liz g says:

    Jockanesewindtalker @ 5.31
    Aye…. that’s exactly what they are doing.
    Don’t waste yer time with them.
    Pretty clear now that their version of the support that they claim to give to Independence,includes trying to tell a person who they can love.
    Who ever they think they are….. I am pretty sure that,most of us who are trying to free Scotland,are no doing it for a country that will be so low as to cry treason,over a relationship.
    That’s the most Henry the 8th thing I haven’t heard of….and I read the great reprobate bill
    Aye Truth is it
    Aye well Truth will out eh?

  41. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    @Rock says at 6:01 pm “In other words, sack her?”

    No, Rock.

    Restriction of duties is not the same as sacking someone.

    Anyway this thread is about BLiS Hypocrisy on the SNHS.

    Let’s get back on to that.

    Unless you want to continue with the disruption.

  42. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Agreed @Liz g says at 6:26 pm, ignore Poor Rock o’ the 77th I will.

  43. Legerwood says:

    On Topic – the NHS: Waiting times for OPD appointments

    NHS Waiting times published May 2017.

    NHS Waiting Times – Stage of Treatment
    82.1% of patients were seen within the 12 week Treatment Time Guarantee (inpatients and day cases) for quarter ending 31 March 2017. This has decreased from 86.8% during quarter ending 31 December 2016 and 92.7% during quarter ending 31 March 2016.

    80.7% of patients waiting for a new outpatient appointment at 31 March 2017 had been waiting 12 weeks or less. This compares to 75.7% at 31 December 2016 and 88.9% at 31 March 2016.

    86.7% of patients waiting for a key diagnostic test at 31 March 2017 had been waiting less than six weeks. This compares to 86.1% at 31 December 2017 and 94.6% at 31 March 2016.

    83.2% of patients were seen within the 18 week Referral to Treatment standard during month ending 31 March 2017. This compares with 83.8% seen during month ending 31 December 2016 and 86.6% during month ending 31 March 2016.
    There has been a downward trend in waiting times but the figures for the quarter ending March 2017 showed an improvement which may indicate that steps taken by the Scottish Government are starting to take effect.

    The results should be seen in the context of the total number of appointments – 4.5 million annually of which one third are first time appointments. In 2007 it was 4.3 million annually

    The ISD publishes a huge number of reports on all manner of BHS activities and performance. Full list can be seen here

  44. twathater says:

    @Robert Graham 2.42pm
    Yes younger voters please take heed of the examples Robert uses I am an auld git and can assure you that these are miniscule examples of the GROSS incompetence of liebours governance ,that doesn’t even take into account their corruption . Do you think the dugs promises mean anything, just take a wee look at liebours governance in Wales , what a clusterfcuk

    We in Scotland thanks to our SNP SG already have most of these progressive policies STOLEN by Corbyn from the SNP and promised to the Ingerlish people yet they still lost the GE , does that mean the Ingerlish don’t want these policies or that they know Corbyn won’t deliver same as kez

  45. Famous15 says:

    So ROCK and others are now policing private homes?

    I had my suspicions when the only pro independence paper on the news stands was attacked by Rock. Now I am certain he/she/it is an anti independence troll. If it quacks like a duck,walks like a duck etc

    The divisions observed here are too obvious. The indepence option is getting too popular so lets sow discord!

    Good news really!

  46. Speaking from down by yere, I can confirm that our health service is in constant crisis thanks to Labour’s mismanagement, corruption and cronyism.

    No week goes by without wards having to be closed because of infectious outbreaks caused by sloppy cleaning on under-supervised external contracts.

    GPs are leaving by the vanload, with one trust area alone having to take over GP services in nine locations in the last couple of years, with at least one more to follow (the one I’ve been registered with for 55 years!).

    And, to cap it all, yet another one of those private contractors has left nurses with parking fines totalling in the thousands, and all that the walking vacuum who pretends to be First Minister can say is that the ‘rules’ must be ‘properly enforced’.

    (See <a href="; and <a href=";)

    Please don’t let these tossers ever get hold of your public services again!

  47. (Sorry, cocked the links up…again!)

  48. Liz g says:

    Ledgerwood @ 6.45
    Do we know if the NHS staff are any better informed of the set up of NHS Scotland?
    I can mind that last time around (2014) there was talk that some staff didn’t know that the NHS in Scotland is as separate as the rest of Scotland should be.
    Has any work been done in that direction do you know?

    Famous 15 @ 7.01
    Really would not worry about that one.
    Said nothing original in 6 months…rinse and repeat really.
    I couldn’t be sure mind ye!!!but around the time the supreme court confirmed that the Treaty of the Union wasn’t an obsolete document…the moss really started to gather.

  49. Liz g says:

    Nigel Stapley @ 7.13
    Thanks for the information Nigel.
    Are the people down your way aware that NHS Scotland is doing better,and doing it different?

  50. colin alexander says:


    I’ve been a good boy the last couple of days. Limited my comments and haven’t repeated my criticisms, as I’ve made my points.

    Nobody has had any further complaints about me, so why bad mouth me now?

    As for troll. Stu has already ruled on that one. He said I’m not a troll and he’s right.

  51. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Nigel Stapley @ 19:13,

    “walking vacuum”. Heh, heh. I like it, Nigel.

    I was going to write that’s exactly what we have to endure up here from the three Unionist empty barrels, but then I had second thoughts.

    “I wish.” Because sound doesn’t travel in a vacuum.

  52. Tartanarse says:

    If you can read this it’s because you’ve not got round to banning me yet.

    As ever, didn’t really read properly and hadn’t noticed the FOS warning.

    Apologies. Took me ages to get unblocked on twitter for typing 140 characters of HAHAHA because of similar lack of attention.

    Thanks. Tartanarse

  53. colin alexander says:

    Privatisation of the NHS – in England.

    Thank goodness we have a Scot Govt committed to protecting the Scottish NHS.

    It reinforces how vital it is that we NEVER let Westminster or the Scottish Tories get their hands on the NHS in Scotland.

    Even then, if privatisation of health care continues in England, through the Barnett consequentials it can have a knock on effect on the public money given to Scotland to fund our NHS.

    I think this is something that should be emphasised and highlighted if there is another indyref campaign as everyone, especially older voters, rely on the NHS.

  54. stewartb says:

    Legerwood @6.45pm

    As you point out, NHS Scotland’s performance measures are many, various and, in terms of publication, very transparent.

    I commend the presentation of the performance data published at as this provides graphs of various performance stats by metric/topic, hospital, board and for Scotland overall – and crucially, it shows performance over time for context and perspective.

    What these data commonly show is that some hospitals and some boards are very close to or exceed targets whilst others fall short. To me this suggests that the national ‘system’ as a whole is capable of very high levels of performance but with room for local improvement.

    For example, the main A&E department at Ninewells Hospital is seeing between 98.5% and 99.4% of patients within the four hour standard during July 2017 so far. Ninewells hasn’t fallen beneath 95.5% performance since April 2016. When was that ever ‘celebrated’ in the media as a demonstration of what can be achieved by NHS Scotland?

  55. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander says:
    18 July, 2017 at 7:37 pm

    I gave up on your stuff after you said I was insulting peoples religion and that puts people off YES, or something like that.

    Whatever works for you though.

    But Colin, why do you think Lab in Wales are so badly running or ruining, Welsh health care?

    Why do you think beeb Scotland gimps never mention anything bettertogether Lab, like this?

    Does it not strike you as all kinds of wtf is going on in Lab generally?

    What kind of party are they really, left, right, in out, shake it all about etc?

    Considering Corbyn’s swiped SNP policy on a whole range of stuff, it would be great to hear your input Colin.

    Asking this kind of query of your seat sniffing chum Rock, ofcourse does usually make him disappear.

  56. Legerwood says:

    Lizg @ 7.18pm

    I do not know if any work has been done on it because it would be purely a matter for the political parties or pollsters carrying out a survey on their behalf. It is not the ISD’s responsibility.

    I am pretty sure that NHS staff in Scotland are more than clued up these days about NHS Scotland’s set up given all the publicity surrounding things like the junior doctor’s strike down south, nurses pay and student nurses in England losing their bursaries and paying uni fees. These and much else have thrown the differences and separate organisation and governance of NHS Scotland home to the vast majority of staff.


    stewartb @ 7.56

    The couple of examples of performance stats I have given are summaries of the main reports that are always published along with summary reports. The longer reports, and sometimes the summary reports, contain graphs and historical data showing trends. The info on waiting times is accompanied with exel spreadsheets containing aggregated info over time as well as info for each hospital/health board.

    There is so much info on the BHS that is published and freely available yet opposition parties make out they have had to dig for info or put in FoI thus giving the impression that the SG is trying to cover up poor performance. Most of the time Labour etc are just taking selected bits from the published reports. Makes me furious.

  57. Effijy says:

    Let’s all hope that Dippy Dug’s relationship with an SNP
    MP develops to a stage where she can run these type of things by her for an opinion.

    It should reduce greatly the number of times that she makes a complete bloody fool of herself, and lies to the Scottish electorate.

    I wouldn’t let her take charge of Scotland’s Elastoplast’s!

  58. jfngw says:

    Just watched a BBC headline stating there has been a reduction in the cost of living as inflation is now only 2.6% (3.5% rpi), you have to wonder at the standard of journalism or understanding at BBC News.

  59. Glamaig says:


    a friend of mine was involved in writing some software for STV for use on an election night. He said half the journalists couldnt even understand percentages, let alone percentage swing.

  60. Still Positive says:

    This afternoon I had a routine appointment in Gartnavel Hospital in Glasgow. I stepped off the bus 10 minutes before the appointment time and exactly 30 minutes later I was back at the bus stop.

    Last appointment was the same -in and out, including x-ray, consultation and blood taken all well within an hour.

    I must say the restructuring of the NHS in Glasgow, in my experience, is working well.

  61. Ghillie says:

    Kez still sounds deluded and lost.

    When I first saw that she and an SNP MSP had fallen in love I did wonder about a breach of confidence.

    But then, my second thought was, how lovely, and might this also be a chance for Kezia to hear, discuss and learn.

    In a World where love and understanding is so desperately needed, their new-found bond has a good chance of being a really good thing.

    I wish them both well.

    Peace and love folks = )

  62. Liz g says:

    Effijy @ 8.30
    We can but hope….but it seems to me that for most, not all but most politicians,it’s all a big game of chess.
    It’s like they don’t seem to know or care that it’s people’s lives they play with.
    I mean what would it take for you to order an air strike ?
    What would it take for you to order a second one??
    I am guessing but …they would have to be landing on the beaches..right?

    Could you move to help create a system that profits from the sick…?
    Would you fail to protect a health system,you are charged with the stewarding of?
    Will you sell as an asset the health system, built by the blood, toil and tears of the people whom you convinced that you were a safe pair of hands?
    No I’ll wager you would protect it,will everything you had.

    This is why Government must be
    under the control,and in fear of the people.
    Get them within slapping distance and limited by a Constitution…. might no be perfect….but better than tolerating the second rate narcissistic eejits squeaking their judge approved (don’t get me started) lies at us,that we have now.

  63. colin alexander says:

    @Heedtreacker @everyone

    Please stop the personal remarks and insults. That only causes trouble and spoils this website.

    Insulting religious beliefs is a breach of YES and the SNP’s code of conduct for good reasons: it offends and alienates voters.

    Health Boards run health services in Scotland and Wales, not the govts.
    However, govts are responsible for funding, strategic planning, policies etc.

    I only know about the Scottish NHS and have studied a bit about how the English health service has been re-organised along the lines of American health care which is often funded by private health insurance according to Professor Allyson Pollock. She has written articles and has Youtube videos on this subject.

    I don’t know if or why the Welsh NHS is worse than the Scottish NHS. As Stu points out: you can’t trust the media. So using the BBC and Daily Mail to prove a point about the Welsh NHS is not the most convincing and reliable evidence for me.

    I have no interest in defending the Labour Party in Wales or elsewhere as I am not a Labour supporter.

    I’m no fan of Kezia either. But she does not interfere in my private life and I don’t in hers. So the remarks on her personal life have nothing to do with me; so it was out of order to bring me into your diatribe against Rock and hurl disgusting insults in my direction too.

    Let’s concentrate on the policies and working towards independence instead of name calling.

  64. Dr Jim says:

    Why the SNP member as opposed to Kezia being in trouble with her party
    Not really a story is it

    Kezia telling lies is a story though and all her paid Tweeting Trolls will be punting it out there for the deluded to lap up and the lying willing press printing it for her

    There just seems to be no standards of truth whatsoever from the media, Politicians are expected to twist the truth, the medias job is supposed to be exposing lies not promoting them

    In some countries they don’t like that behaviour at all and deal with their press accordingly, and who can blame them
    In Liverpool they don’t buy the SUN because that paper are liars, makes you wonder what’s wrong with Scotland

  65. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander says:
    18 July, 2017 at 10:06 pm
    @Heedtreacker @everyone

    So youse no idea why Lab are hopeless in Wales but some pompous buffoonery over non existent insulting of religion.

    Fair enough, or just the usual from youse Colin.

    OK, so why do yous think the SNP are clearly miles ahead of all the rest running a public sector like health care, Colin?

  66. Legerwood says:

    colin alexander @ 10.06

    Like the BHS in Scotland the NHS in Wales collects and publishes data on the performance of the NHS in Wales. Presumably the BBC and Daily Mail use that published data as their source.

    Here for your information and to remove any doubt you may have is current data on the Welsh A&E performance. Update due later this week

    You can use the link to take you to data on other aspects of BHS Performance in Wales.

  67. Ken500 says:

    Do they not realise people use the NHS every day and know how good it is. Yes it could be even better. If unionists had not blow the money on illegal, wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe. Costing the whole of Europe £Billions. Resettling people etc. The banking crash etc. Caused by useless Unionists.

    Now Brexit. Trying to ruin the world economy once again. Wasting £Billion on grotesque projects of no value and not funding essential services.properly. Sanctioning and starving vulnerable people. There are reports there will be a fall in the average dying age. The Tories are killing people off.

    Yet some people seem to fall for all the Unionist lies. Taking £Billions out of Scotland which could be better spent. On the NHS/Education, essential services, Not funding loans on excessive debt not spent in Scotland. HS2, Hinkley Point, Trident and Heathrow wasting £Billions of public money. So unionists at Westminster can line their pockets with £Billions of public money. Wasted.

    The Tory troll at it again. On the Herald website. Trying to support the Tory mess. A total muck up.

    People who support Independence voting for Corbyn and expecting to be taken seriously. Not only is his stance on policies incomparable, Brexit. In Scotland they already have what he is promising/offering. and a better performing economy.

  68. Liz g says:

    Colin Alexander @ 10.06
    As an @ Everyone
    There’s mibbi a bit of common ground…

    Can ye no insult ma intelligence..or ma Sovereignty.
    Make it a two way street sort of thing.
    And we wull see?

  69. crazycat says:

    @ Liz g

    I’ve left a comment for you on o/t

  70. HandandShrimp says:

    But then, my second thought was, how lovely,

    I tend to agree. There have been other cross party relationships and I can’t recall them being a problem.

    In a pretty horrid world a wee bit of love does no harm. We have plenty to skelp Kezia legs over – her choice of partner isn’t a contender to make the top 50.

  71. Still Positive says:

    HandandShrimp @11.23

    I agree. Our (former) SNP ex-MP Natalie McGarry is married to a Conservative Councillor.

  72. auld highlander says:


    Lets see how the government’s favourite propaganda channel deal with this little nugget.

    and another waste of the tax payers hard earned cash.

  73. heedtracker says:

    Dugdale’s private life is of no interest whatsoever, other than noseiness:D

    This really is though,

  74. colin alexander says:


    Thank you for the links. It’s good the Scottish NHS is currently and over the longer term performing better in A&E waiting times than health services in England, Wales and N.I.

    How? Scotland spends more per capita than many other parts of the UK, which should help. Though Wales and N.I. spend more than England and yet performed worse, so it’s not as simple as how much money.

    Efficiency must come into it too.

    The most obvious statistic is that N.I. spent the most per head in 2015/16 and yet has the worst figures, but that may be a statistical thing is N.I has a lot less population than other parts of the UK. I’m not sure.

    What I can say is that the figures for Scotland appear encouraging, but if Austerity continues and Brexit compounds that even more, and privatisation occurs in England’s health service it will be worrying times for the Scottish NHS.

    That’s why I think protecting the Scottish NHS should be up there with economic arguments in any pro-independence campaign.

  75. heedtracker says:

    That’s why I think protecting the Scottish NHS should be up there with economic arguments in any pro-independence campaign.

    Youse are quite the waffler arent youse Colin?

    Scotland’s got particular chronic health problems too, we keep being telt, sick man of Europe style.

    Youse got an opinion at all Colin, other than waffle and a ref on Scots sovereignty?

  76. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, one of the ways of improving the SNHS – or any NHS – is putting more funds into it (with a plan of course). And you have to ask, where with a limited block grant do those extra funds come from?

    The answer in light of the DUP bung is quite clear. Scotland is being short-changed of £2.9 billion by this Tory bribe to keep the Tories in power, so I expect Dugdale will be the first of the Unionist leaders in Scotland to support the SG’s challenge to this when they raise the formal dispute proceedings.

    And I daresay Scottish Labour including our old friends James Kelly and Jackie Baillie will be totally enthusiastic in their support of Sturgeon and the SNP and Greens, if that formal dispute fails, for any court action.

    Why, they might even vote with the SNP and Greens in Holyrood over it!

    All in the cause of a healthier NHS, of course. It’s safe in Labour hands.

  77. Ken500 says:

    What will help the SNHS and the well being of the nation is Minimum pricing. Now going through the Scottish courts in July for the final decision. After going all around the houses. Subsidised by an alcohol industry that does not pay any taxes in Scotland. The whisky industry.

    Minimum pricing was rejected by the Unionists over four years ago. It would stop people killing themselves and others. Poisoning themselves with alcohol. Causing crime and poverty. One of the main causes of poverty is drink and drug addiction. A random affliction. Affecting far too many people.

    There is a need for total abstinence proper rehab facilities which could be provide with the money released. Now supposed to be the responsibility of local councils under social care provision. Neglected by many councils to continue to waste public money on grotesque projects of no value. Ruining city centre’s and wasting vast amounts of taxpayers money. Leaving essential services inadequately funded.

  78. Undeadshaun says:

    Dont forget it was labour who saddled nhs with pfi debt, like car parking. Even though holyrood has got rid of parking charges at hospitals, 3 sites where there are pfis mean that holyrood cant do anything until pfi contract ends.

    Edinburgh royal infirmary is a money pit, cost 180 million to build, but has a 40 year pfi and total cost by then will be £1 billion.

    If dugdale ever got her hands on running the nhs in scotland we would see more of that!

  79. Tatu3 says:

    How about posters/leaflets in Scottish GP surgeries and hospitals pointing out the differences between Scottish NHS and rest of uk NHS performances? Would this be allowed? Posters in pharmacies reminding everyone the cost of prescriptions elsewhere?

  80. bjsalba says:


    Boy is the BBC desperate!

    Interviewing Hans-Olaf Henkel MEP on R4 this morning. Don’t listen to Barnier or Verhofstadt he says.

    What official standing other than being an MEP for AfD which is Germany’s equivalent of UKIP? None whatsoever.

  81. Famous15 says:

    Golly gosh! I did not realise how wonderfully honest and trustworthy the BBC is until the Director General of the BBC told me so on GMS this morning.

    Hitherto I thought they were the voice of our imperial masters to keep the Scots in their place.

  82. Famous15 says:

    Re BBC. The Scottish Government should refuse all FOI requests from the BBC unless they are asked UK wide.

    What is good for Brexit (greet,it was a UK referendum greet) is good for truth and balance in public information in this “United Kingdom” (sick).

  83. Macart says:


    Vote with the whip on health policy, or vote to protect needs and interests of their electorate?

    They’re going to vote with party whip aren’t they…

    Well they wanted to work with the big boys n’ girls in the big parly. They wanted bright lights, big city, spotlights an all.

    There’s a problem with spotlights…

  84. Hamish100 says:

    Is cat Boyd and her ilk not aware that when Corbyn is ousted retires etc we will be left with a labour right wing core in charge – a bit like labour in Scotland. Corbyn believes in London ruling Scotland, always has and always will.

  85. ronnie anderson says:

    Tatu3 How about the Scottish Gov changing the signage at all the Hospitals & Surgeries & on all the letter heading to reflect that there is a Scottish National Health Service , a Big Blue S on every building under the Health Services control . This issue is long overdue, the rebranding of SNHS should be a priority since its being conflated as a wholly brittish nhs .

  86. Robert Peffers says:

    @Macart says: 18 July, 2017 at 2:04 pm:

    I agree with everything you say, Macart.

    Except this bit – “… “Pretty much most reasonable people are perfectly aware of the times we live in and the enormous financial pressures and constraints everyone is up against.”

    Statistically, using Westminster’s own figures, the Westminster claims that, “We are all in these austerity measures together”, is a blatant lie”.

    While the poorest, and most vulnerable, members of United Kingdom society continue to suffered most from these Westminster imposed austerity measures, many to their premature deaths, Westminster’s own statistics prove the richest strata of our society have prospered and more than doubled their personal wealth.

    I’m no great hand as a mathematician but what those statistics prove to me is that the Westminster Government’s austerity measures were specifically designed to take money from the pockets and purses of the poorest people and transfer it to the, often off-shore, bank accounts of the Tory backing wealthiest people.

    These already very rich people are thus guilty of robbing and killing vulnerable and poor people using lawful measures that they specifically put in place for that very purpose.

    Modern monetary systems are no longer tied to a gold standards and thus no (free), government can ever go bust for they control the money supply a.k.a. A Quantitative Easing Program.


  87. Az says:


    Marvellous 2 minute rant from chunky Mark:

  88. Macart says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Probably should have been more specific with that line, but I was thinking of the financial constraints of the devolved legislature and institutions when typing.

    But yes, in wider terms which include populations, the few are doing rather well from the suffering of the many.

  89. Brian Powell says:

    It is quite amazing that after 10 years of Government, with no support from the newspapers, indeed vehement opposition from many, no support in terms of reporting positive achievements from the BBC TV/radio, with deliberate distortion on most stories, total opposition from the LabConLib party in Scotland and Westminster, in fact vindictive opposition in Westminster, the SNP keeps winning with the support of real people: the ordinary people in the streets.

  90. Eddie Munster says:

    Her delusional outlook, fully supported by the media in the UK, can only end badly when it comes crashing down in a few years time, same goes for kernel Ruth and happy Willie.

  91. Robert Kerr says:

    Ben Madigan has an interesting piece on his blog re Irish Unification and Unionist intransigence.

    A mirror to the OO here in Scotland!

  92. colin alexander says:

    I put links to statistics and graphs comparing health spending across the UK and answering points last night, but they aren’t on now.

    Wales cut their health spending by quite a bit. I guess the stories show the results of that.

    Scotland has spent proportionally most or nearly most – except for N.I on health, but yet N.I. came bottom, so it’s not always as simple as more money equals better performance. Though clearly more money spent on health care helps, as the Wales figures prove.

    Nuffield suggests Scotland’s health care is more centralised so helps with efficiency.

    After years at the bottom of health spending per capita, spending on the English health service has risen, but spending on the Scottish NHS has been going down. It’s been going down in Wales and elsewhere too.

    The general trend has been LESS spending on health. Yet, demand for health care has been rising as the population ages.That puts increased demand and pressure on services.

    Inflation is rising and the pay cap is being ended, so money will probably go into NHS wages rather than health care.

    AS others have pointed out, the Scottish NHS and other devolved services rely on a grant. WM holds the purse strings.

    Credit to the Scottish Govt and Scottish NHS, the performance has been relatively good. The Scot Govt has tried to have better social care to minimise the need for hospital care, especially for older people, to try and reduce pressure on hospitals.

    Bed blocking, where – mainly pensioners – remain in hospital after treatment, is a problem that the Scot Govt has tried to tackle with a better integration of social care / health.

    We have been living under Austerity and if Brexit has the predicted negative consequences, then I won’t be surprised if Scottish health performance figures deteriorate despite the best efforts of the Scottish Govt to make the Scottish NHS efficient.

    Scotland’s political and economic future will dictate how good or bad or Scottish NHS will become in future years.

    People might no care about politics or economics, but they care when they need a doctor or hospital.

    They are linked.

    Independence is not just about saying we are independent, it’s about hospitals, schools, colleges, social services, housing etc.

  93. Les Wilson says:

    House of Lords have suggested Scotland and possibly other devolved nations could get a different solution re Brexit.
    Funny how the HOL containing a good number of “Scots lords”, who would be gone if Scotland was independent, would come up with this.

    In such a situation I cannot imagine Westminster bearing their costs. So self interest will be behind this suggestion methinks!
    Their much loved gravy train would be finished.

    The devolved nations crap is a smokescreen, Scotland is their worry,being the only other “partner” in this dis-functional union, they have good reason to worry.

  94. stu mac says:

    @:Dr Jim says:
    18 July, 2017 at 10:19 pm

    In Liverpool they don’t buy the SUN because that paper are liars, makes you wonder what’s wrong with Scotland

    Nothing’s wrong with Scotland. There was a big brouhaha in Liverpool about the Sun (quite rightly) but it centred on one very nasty piece of reporting, not what the Sun reported in general.

    In Scotland (as elsewhere TBF) paper media sales are and have been declining steadily for many years. As has number of viewers watching BBC and other news media. Just because there’s been no big campaign about it, doesn’t mean folk here aren’t becoming more aware of how untrustworthy our newsmedia is and are reacting to this by no longer buying/reading/listening watching the MSM.

  95. heedtracker says:

    stu mac says:
    19 July, 2017 at 9:37 am
    @:Dr Jim says:
    18 July, 2017 at 10:19 pm

    In Liverpool they don’t buy the SUN because that paper are liars, makes you wonder what’s wrong with Scotland

    Nothing’s wrong with Scotland.

    There really is though. We are kept in the dark on literally thousands of issues that have massive impacts on all of us, and ofcourse keep the tory imperial masters in power.

    I never watched anything BBC Scotland at all now, its that bad/boring/smug.

    But I do still read the Graun, if they would just do that ancient old lecher Murdoch paywall thing too.

    Sustainable British cod on the menu after stocks recover
    A recovery from near total collapse has led North Sea cod stocks to be labelled as sustainable by the Marine Stewardship Council for the first time in 20 year”

    All down to EU membership. From Graun twerps, not a peep, not a one EU did this mention, peep.

    Nice photo of a big schlub frae the Blue Toon, his predecessors destroyed the North Sea and North Atlantic and now they’re back in the game, after their winning Leave campaigning. aided and abetted by UKOK Graun tory twerps.

    Almost certainly, Colin Alexander types will be reading this and going, I can smear WoS btl with this, because everyone loves our noble and brave, Leave and proud Brexit British fishing folk of the UK zone.

    Some of us don’t though.

  96. heedtracker says:

    Beeb gimps exactly match Graun on tory UK’s EU black out from er, teamGB life. Just another day at an incredibly corrupt tory coal face but holy fcuk.

    North Sea cod is now sustainable and can be eaten with a “clear conscience”, a fisheries body has said.”

    Graun and beeb tories no EU mention but same nice photo of same skipper, who was a prominent tory Leave camper last year, because he wants foreigners out of British fishing grounds, which he will get too, and then he can empty our seas of life, without the EU trying to stop him, just like before, in the good ole days, when Britannia ruled the waves.

  97. jfngw says:

    Rumour has it the BBC is to revive some old favourites with a makeover:

    The Orange & Red Minstrel Show, featuring the songs & tunes from history.

    The Good Old Days, with new compere Arlene Foster, a rousing programme bringing back memories of your childhood.

  98. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Undeadshaun @ 07:45,

    A point worth repeating again and again. Yet despite all this moaning in the media about the rising cost of health care, you never hear a peep about PFI being one of the prime suspects. That applies in England as well, maybe even more so. All thanks to El Gordo and his cowardly financial gee-whizzery.

    Labour, both national and local, were told at the time that they were taking a bill that we ought to have have paid and instead passed it on to our kids and their kids to pay – with interest on top. What a vile inheritance! But true to form they knew best and just wouldn’t listen.

    For all Labour’s self-serving posturing, Kezia doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously about the NHS until she recognises and sincerely apologises for that miserable burden. Until then, she can just take a hike.

  99. Al Dossary says:

    Woo hoo for British Cod. Bottom feeder, full of worms – our Southern cousins are welcome to it.

    After the fleets form Grimsby & Hull fished British cod into oblivion in the 1960’s and 1970’s they then set their sights on Iceland’s stocks.

    Hell, as recently as the 1950s there was sports fishing in the Scarborough region for Tuna !

    Royal navy warships up against Icelandic coastguard cutters. That was the way of Britain, bully into such mission all who stood against them.

    And they would have done the same to those stocks were in to for Iceland threatening to quit Nato over it and the little case that HMG had in the Hague demanding a 200 mile limit for the Oil which they had found in the North Sea.

  100. Dr Jim says:

    In Scotland information made available in the morning is everywhere by lunchtime if you want to know about it

    In Inglind information made available in the morning remains there or is distorted out of all recognition then it takes forever to find people who WANT to know about it

    The Brits:
    Why do they keep saying we’re one country when we clearly have different names (Scotland is a different name to Inglind) and glaringly obvious different attitudes to almost everything

    Unionist Brits have to be told which opinions to have before they speak
    In general Scottish people actively reject any advice on what their opinions should be from anyone and just shout them out and to hell with anyone else

    Makes you wonder how much clearer we can make it, we’re not the same we just look like we are

    My Mum God bless her was Inglish, over 65 years living in Scotland and loved it but she never could understand a day of it and until the day she passed we were still translating words for her

  101. heedtracker says:

    Al Dossary says:
    19 July, 2017 at 10:41 am
    Woo hoo for British Cod. Bottom feeder, full of worms – our Southern cousins are welcome to it.

    North Sea oil and fish have a lot in tory UKOK common. Get it all and then get the fuck out.

    The idea of a sustainable North Sea oil and fishing industry would make our imperial master baiters laugh out loud, very loud.

    Sustainable is never the teamGB way, to be fair. Norway’s done it from the start of their oil and gas discovery and ofcourse countries like Iceland learnt the hard way with their cod stocks.

    Icelandic fishing industry actually pushes their gov to enforce even tighter fish stock protection.

    Its all in the beeb gimp tory led propaganda spinning with, lifetimes worth of it came to fruition in Scotland at our tragic referendum, 2014.

    Worship the UKOK royals, read broadsheet shite like this, vote tory and UK forever.

    Milne acknowledges that North Sea fish stocks, cod in particular, are improving. Fisheries experts say that is because the common fisheries policy is finally working correctly. Scottish ministers will argue that Scotland’s strategy of implementing closed fishing areas to protect stocks, in a deal brokered with trawlermen, has played a part, too.
    Milne said the improvement means the Dutch and Danish want a greater share of fish in British waters, as do Norwegians, who must negotiate quota shares from outside the EU. “They’re getting more and more out. We’re getting very little in return, I would say. We’re basically getting the crumbs,” he said.
    If the UK does vote to leave the EU on 23 June, Milne believes the UK should introduce a regional management system in British waters, where local trawlermen, ministers and fisheries expert assess stock levels, and parcel out quotas to suit local circumstances.

  102. To me these snakes were domed up years ago the words in scots a hae wha say base to be a slave wha wid fill a cowards grave let him turn and flee I wish they would the lying unionist parties and the lying media and to think some of them have the brass neck to go to church on a Sunday

  103. Phronesis says:

    The NHS is generally accepted to be one of the best performing health care systems and thankfully the SNHS remains nationalised. There are many organisational challenges to provide universally accessible health care and address the social determinants of health but the biggest challenge to England’s NHS is from the current WM approach of stealth privatisation of the NHS, legislation that supports this and the unrelenting fragmentation of state provision

    ‘Our children are being robbed of their inheritance…
    We do not accept that land sales and commercial rents being forced onto Foundation Trusts and GPs are a way of securing the NHS’ future. We think it shows the strength of the desire to unlock the ownership of these assets and transfer them to the private sector’

    There is no value to society in emulating the American Healthcare system other than filling the pockets of ‘HealthCare Inc.’ shareholders who will have no interest in the population’s general health and well-being-

    ‘The United States spends far more on health care than other high-income countries, with spending levels that rose continuously over the past three decades. Yet the U.S. population has poorer health than other countries… more people in the U.S.—and all over the world—are living with age-related disabilities and chronic disease, placing pressure on health care systems to respond…

    In particular, poor access to primary care has contributed to inadequate prevention and management of chronic diseases, delayed diagnoses, incomplete adherence to treatments, wasteful overuse of drugs and technologies, and coordination and safety problems…

    In general, the U.K. achieves superior performance compared to other countries in all areas except Health Care Outcomes ’

    Robust state services and joined up welfare provision provide the support for economically productive citizens. UK not doing as well as our Nordic cousins,

    ‘The Nordic countries present high levels of social expenditure (around 30% of GDP in Denmark, Finland and Sweden)… Anglo-Saxon (Ireland and the United Kingdom) and Eastern countries devote, on average, just 20% of GDP (2016) to welfare…a higher expenditure level in support of families, like childcare, encourages female participation in the labour market and, at the same time, also contributes to achieving other goals such as reduced poverty and income inequality. Likewise, active labour market policies are directly geared to preventing unemployment and, indirectly, they also help contain poverty…

    Social policies following a multi-targeted approach can be preferable because of potentially positive indirect effects of some sectoral policies on other areas of welfare’

  104. Jock McDonnell says:

    @les Wilson
    Les, I don’t think there is a mechanism for expelling Scots from the lords
    They have no constituency- they can always retain rUK citizenship
    Might be different for hereditary vs life peers though

  105. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Ken500 at 5.35

    The best way to effect minimum pricing is to take licences from supermarkets.

    If we revert to only licensed grocers and pubs selling carry outs the need for minimum pricing disappears. Neither of those traditional outlets had any policy of selling cheap booze unlike supermarkets who use alcohol as loss leaders lots of the time.

    The licensed grocers have gone out of business due to supermarkets.
    And the pubs are following. Why buy a pint in your nice friendly local pub when you can get four cans of the same stuff at the supermarket for the price of a pint at the pub?

    There is a serious social issue here as well. In many small communities the well run local pub was the social centre of it and we are losing them all across the country.

    What many people don’t understand is that a huge percentage of the cash spent on alcohol in supermarkets- up to 50% or more – is tax and governments are loathe to interupt this.

    On spirits the best part of a tenner on it goes to the government and most people are unaware that on your humble can of lager or cider over 50p goes the same route.

  106. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    And of course I should have added none of the huge tax revenue from alcohol consumed in Scotland comes to Scotland.

  107. Petra says:

    BBC pay being revealed now. 96 people being paid over £150,000 from license fee collection. Certain people have been exempted such as those on Top Gear, World news etc.

    For example Gary Lineker earns just over £1.75 – £1.79 million, Graham Norton receives more than £850,000 and Chris Evans £2.2 – £2.4 million.


  108. Gerry says:

    OT “Troops, Trolls and Troublemakers: A Global Inventory of Organized Social Media Manipulation — new Oxford paper”
    Via Wikileaks – An eye opening read.

  109. Marcia says:


    Obscene amounts of money being paid by the BBC. The BBC Management claim they have to pay these sums to attract “talent”. I am sure if the presenters wages were on the working minimum wage they would still attract talent. No one is indispensable.

  110. heedtracker says:

    Gerry, a good read, although I jumped to the conclusion:D

    “Figure 1 is a country heat map of cyber troop capacity, defined by the number of different organizational types involved. In many countries, political actors have no reported ability to field social media campaigns.

    In some countries, one or two known political actors occasionally use social media for political messaging, and in a few other countries there are multiple government agencies, political parties, or civil society groups organizing trolling and fake news campaigns.”

    Rock and Colin A types aside, take out the “occasional ” as in “occasionally use social media for political messaging,” and you have some interesting characters/chancers, like my Slovene girlfriend of the Graun and Herald btl,

    Adam Tomkins MSP?Verified account @ProfTomkins Jul 14

    Back from holiday to find that science fiction still dominates one half of Scottish politics

  111. Petra says:

    Some snippets from yesterday’s Sun:

    ‘Marches axe votes.’

    Theresa May has delayed major new laws to avoid a clash with the DUP’s marching season in NIreland. There were no contraversial votes in the Commons this week or last before the summer recess. Senior No10 figures say they are unable to rely on the ten DUP MP’s being there to create a majority.

    A Senior Government source said ”One rule we have discovered with the DUP is don’t do anything in the Commons during the marching season as they wont be there.”

    But a DUP MP said ”Nothing to vote on is not our fault. We’d have been back if there was.”


    ‘Two vote poll fear.’

    New fears have emerged that some Brits voted twice in the General Election amid an ID loophole. The Electoral Commission says concerns raised by MP’s and the public on poll fraud are ‘troubling.’ It advised urgent Government action over applications to vote by people who are already registered. The EC probe came after a record 46.8 million voted last month, up 500,000. It is illegal to vote more than once in a general Election but some people such as students are allowed to register in two areas. A rise in numbers of voters is claimed to have fuelled the surge in support for Labour.


    ‘HS2 will be a boost to Scots.’

    Chris Grayling, UK Transport Secretary, says that the new HS2 rail link will boost Scots businesses, jobs and skills….

    An expansion to Crewe by 2033 will cut journey times from London to Glasgow and Edinburgh to 3 hours 40 minutes. Grayling said ”HS2 will bring huge economic benefits to Scotland and help ensure this Government delivers on it’s promise to spread wealth beyond London.”


    Prince Willie and Kate are off to see Angela Merkel today on what’s been described as an attempt to ”repair Britain’s image in Europe.” What a farce least of all dragging two toddlers along with them with GAL (Prince George) clearly showing that he’s, to say the least, ‘ extremely uncomfortable if not down right miserable.’


    The latest from ‘Talking up Scotland.’

    ‘Scottish public sector to put poverty and inequality at heart of decision-making despite UK Government’s abandonment of the principle.’

    ”I (Prof Robertson) wrote this earlier in July:

    ”Our media and political elites are always keen to tell us we’re not so different from our neighbours in England and I do recognise we’re not radically different in that there are selfish individualists here and caring communitarians there but that doesn’t mean the countries are not still different enough in overall tendencies to be seen as worthy of autonomy from each other. I’m thinking of little things that all add up to make us less like England than we’re told. Look at this: ……………


    And it’s Nicola’s birthday today. I hope you have a fabulous day Nicola and a wonderful year ahead. Love and best wishes for great health, inner peace and happiness. More than anything I want to thank you for working so very hard, for all the great work that you have done, on our behalf XX

  112. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Fully agree with you @ronnie anderson says at 8:23 am regarding the rebranding of signage at all the Hospitals & Surgeries here to reflect a standalone Scottish National Health Service.

    You are right when you say “This issue is long overdue, the rebranding of SNHS should be a priority”.

    As an added bonus to informing/highlighting to the public of this differentiation, I can just hear the howls from The Dug, Colonel Gadaftie and Wee Wullie 1p about this ‘divisive and costly vanity project(imagine Gaelic road signs moans x 100)


  113. heedtracker says:

    My how we’re shysted by beeb gimps in Scotland. BBC’s a loony bin, a red and blue tory loony bin.

    On one tory hand, BBC r4 for example tells England it’s the most wondrous place with the most amazing people in the world. On t’other hand, BBC Scotland gimps tell Scots we’re shite, in a shite little region, that beeb Scotland gimps own.

    Life, BBC life, isnt fair.

  114. Petra says:

    I was just reading that employment is devolved to NIreland but not Scotland (with the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the whole wide world).

    Does anyone have a concise, up to date list, of who’s got control over what?

  115. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    And as for O/T regarding the Fash, @heedtracker et al.

    Any idea what the Pwoud, Yoony Blue Tooner and Brocher Fishermen’s take is on their ‘territorial waters’ being given to the English Fleet via “The Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999”.

    This Order defined “the boundaries between waters which are to be treated as internal waters or territorial sea of the United Kingdom adjacent to Scotland and those which are not.”

    It was introduced in accordance with the Scotland Act 1998, which established the devolved Scottish Parliament.

    Wonder if they’ve been asked.

    Wonder if they really care (as long as they can vote Tory, paint Butchers Aprons and Sevco shite on their boats).

    But I bet they’ll care if a Brexit Britain Westminster Government declares the catch in these waters as an English Fleet Quota and not a Scottish one.

    Probably still be reported as the SNPs fault in the P&J anyway 🙂

  116. heedtracker says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:
    19 July, 2017 at 12:18 pm
    And as for O/T regarding the Fash, @heedtracker et al.

    Its almost immpossible to actually know what’s what in the UK zone of what the fcuk is going on really.

    Scotland’s rivers have been emptied of life now. Spawning Atlantic salmon are extinct on the River Dee for example. Why the owners of the River Dee fishing beats, royals included, think this is all fine and nothing to do with them is just another tory day really.

    If youre catching all the salmon that return from the North East Atlantic, to spawn in say the River Dee, in the Highlands, eventually you kill them all.

    Its the same in most Scots rivers. Although it is interesting watching beeb gimps try and tell us how its all the fault of someone or something else. The mouths of Scottish rivers once went black with the huge shoals of migrating and spawning Atlantic salmon waiting for tides. All gone.

    Last one I heard out of Pacific Quay frauds, pink Salmon are now in Scottish rivers, and ooh, that’s bad, explain these particular tory con artists.

    Then we can look at the great Scottish estuaries, some of the biggest and most beautiful in the world, under teamGB reign of their Scotland region, all dead, completely devoid of any life, scoured completely clean of anything at all.

    And all by our proud British fishing industry.

    They also shoot any seals they can too, quietly though. When there’s no one around.

    PS, one species that does now boom in Scottish waters, prawns. They have no predators today.

  117. Brian says:

    Living in Wales I can say the NHS here has some major issues. My partner is a nurse and the staffing levels are terrible.

    You can’t even blame Labour for all the problems because the Tories are determined to kill it off. Easier done in Wales than Scotland.

    I have received great care down here but can see where they are failing and where they have great strengths that are let down by under-funding and under-staffing. The real problems as we all know lie at the door of Westminster and the government.

  118. Les Wilson says:

    Jock McDonnell says:
    Maybe there is no conventional way for Scots peers to officially be given the boot after Indy, however in the event I remain convinced that they would find a way.

    I cannot see that the English would allow them to stay and be paid what they get, for they could only be dealing with English matters at that stage. They will find a way to get rid of them.

    If at the end of the day, if they have to be paid for by English coffers, then that would be fine with me.Hell mend them.

  119. Dan Huil says:

    The only thing keeping the likes of Dugdale politically alive, and keeping the so-called united kingdom from falling apart today, is the britnat media.

  120. ben madigan says:

    thanks very much for the uptick Robert Kerr – much appreciated. Glad you found the post interesting

    here’s the direct link for anyone that wants to read it!

  121. Jack Murphy says:

    Les Wilson said at 12:49pm:
    “Jock McDonnell says:
    Maybe there is no conventional way for Scots peers to officially be given the boot after Indy, however in the event I remain convinced that they would find a way……”

    They could do the same as the Irish Peers—–leave them to wither on the vine.I’d settle for that.

    Following Ireland’s Independence the existing Irish peers kept their seats in the House of Lords. Since the death of Francis Needham, 4th Earl of Kilmorey in 1961, none remains.

  122. twathater says:

    OT but important
    Over on indyref2 site GAP has a link to a petition to reform the Scottish electoral system re the list vote debacle , I would ask all interested parties to sign and lodge their comments ,who knows we might well get rid of the sub standard troughers. The Scottish Sovereignty AT WORK

  123. Rock says:

    An SNP MSP in bed with Dugdale in private attacking her in public in the Scottish parliament for show only.

    Same as Craig Murray being bosom pals with Carmichael during the independence referendum campaign.

    Rank hypocrisy.

    It stinks to high heaven, in my humble opinion.

    If she had any principles, she should have resigned from the SNP as soon as she got into bed with Dugdale.

    Truth Always.

  124. Liz g says:

    Aw lookay here….. another we rinse and repeat stuck right on the end.
    All true and everything…
    Well there’s always something tae be said for the truth.
    It can shine a light
    Telling other adults who they can love,is career specific, telling grownups who they can be friends with.
    If is a true opinion….
    Does indeed say much…..question is about who
    Truth is is it aye?
    Truth will out eh?

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