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The prisoner

Posted on February 01, 2020 by

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    1239 to “The prisoner”

    1. Republicofscotland says:

      “It is *Westminster* devolved government. It’s authority comes from England’s Crown, not from the people of Scotland.”

      “That’s how Nicola Sturgeon dances to WM’s tune.”

      England has no sovereignty over Scotland, we’re in a union nothing else. Scotland can hold a indyref anytime it wants to without Johnsons permission and he knows it.

      We don’t even need England recognition of the result as long as the international community recognises it that’s all that matters.

      Sturgeon has been way to cautious for her and our own good.

    2. Pete says:

      Mackay is NOT a silly man.
      He’s a sexual predator of the worst kind.
      Left to my wife, he would be castrated.
      I wish people would stop making excuses for such heinous behaviour.

    3. sassenach says:

      “This site is descending into a black hole….”

      Have agreed with that for some time now, when I think back to all the wonderful, entertaining and educational (thanks R. Peffers) political banter, that we used to enjoy pre and post IndyRef1, it grieves me to abandon Wings – but it isn’t my kind of place anymore.

      Just when we are showing signs of finally getting a majority in the polls, btl on here is just in party destruction mode.

      This used to be the most popular Indy site!!! God help us, we are committing suicide.

    4. John says:

      I admit freely to not being a homophobe , I believe you are what you are born ,I know a couple of gay people and they are no different from me and you , we all make mistakes regardless of our gender. Neanderthal ‘s who are in need of an education on the subject of homosexuality or bigotory should join groups that help them deal with their insecurities , it will enrich their lives .

    5. Willie says:

      The texts between Mackay and the sixteen year old boy may for some be inappropriate. About that there is no doubt

      But, and this is a big but, there was and is nothing illegal in it. Saying something or someone is cute is not a crime. Nor is it illegal to offer to take someone for a tour of parliament.

      At sixteen it is the law of Scotland that people can get married. At sixteen people can have sex. At sixteen people voted in the Scottish referendum. At sixteen people can take a job.

      Yes Mackay’s communication with this young man may have been for some inappropriate for many. But not illegal. Certainly not illegal.

      Field day for the unionist press – and isn’t the timing of the release on budget day an awful coincidence. Ah well with the security services scanning all our communications it’s not difficult to see how these smears get spread. Expect more – it’s the establishment way.

    6. North chiel says:

      Pete “ @ 0637 pm “ . Obviously not acquaint with old Scots words ?

    7. Pete says:

      John
      How can you say that Mackay made a mistake?
      He is a sexual predator of the worst kind.
      If you were the boys parents, how would you feel?
      To say it was a mistake is just ridiculous.
      Wake up, man.

    8. John says:

      If I was the boy’s parents I would have gone to the police not the Sun , he did wrong I am not disputing that .

    9. Pete says:

      John
      I can agree with you on that.

    10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “If I was the boy’s parents I would have gone to the police not the Sun , he did wrong I am not disputing that.”

      If he was 16 the whole time, no criminal offence has taken place.

    11. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Blatant homophobia is a particular disappointment.

      Meanwhile, no comments on Kate Forbes’ masterful presentation of the budget. A rising star for sure”

      Those comments may be more ironic than you intended.

    12. Stoker says:

      Meanwhile the BBC south of the border ran with it as their No1 headline at 6pm and not so much of a peep about the even bigger scandal of English authorities, yet again, being suspected of dodgy dealings. The report, which was said to be complete, into child grooming rings across England has disappeared, apparently.
      __________

      In other news: Indyposterboy has changed the layout of his site and added some new material: https://indyposterboy.scot/

    13. Famous15 says:

      This site is descending into a black hole of monstrous illiberality. I will not follow it down that sewer.

      Derek Mackay is a disgrace beyond redemption and must retire totally from public life.

      I will not point to other parties and do any whataboutery. Mackay is not foolish; he is corrupt.

      BUT.

      One or more persons acting wrongly will NEVER alter my belief that independence is essential or Scotland.

    14. Joe says:

      Its just a pity that some sharp, on-the-ball, quick witted, wide boys couldnt have been warning people about the SNP before now. With some advanced warning the hyper faithful political sheep would have been more alert. Oh yeah, that did happen. The sheep just called them yoons and MI5 stooges and dismissed absolutely every warning and observation out of hand.

    15. Joe says:

      I mean i know that when senior political figures state that they have priorities more important to them than indy it takes Poirot or Holmes to sort the bewildering puzzle of their intentions out, but an open mind and being a bit less of the faithful wee mutt would do some good

    16. Sinky says:

      Mackay needs to resign from SNP immediately and look at his conscience regarding continuing as an MSP.

      This has taken the heat of Lady Ruth Davidson’s dual mandate when a few months ago she game up to spend more time with her new family. Explain how she will do this?

      Meanwhile I see BBC Sportscene has banished Michael Stewart for speaking his mind about Rangers cosy PR with sections of the press. On Air BBC said oh JumTraynor isn’t here to defend himself. The same idea of balance doesn’t apply to their London
      centric journalists who allow the SNP / Scot Gov to be defamed and misrepresented without any rebuke or reply.

    17. Joe says:

      But, never fear. Our comrades in social justice at holyrood have a plan – build up support by raising the price of booze, legally enable crossdressing perverts to share spaces with little girls, ignore the public, jump on every social justice band wagon and presto – Scotland slips out of its undemocratic union into another undemocratic union. Fucking genius imo

    18. RobertTheTruth says:

      @sassenach 6.52 pm

      Peffers was an abusive and arrogant blawhard. Not everyone misses him. He took up far too much space BTL and flew off the handle at anyone who didn’t take his pronouncements at face value. He provided no references and made many mistakes which were never acknowledged when pointed out to him. Only someone ignorant of Scottish history would be impressed by his unverified and repetitive rants.

      Your sound very familiar – much like a poster ‘Cubby’ who used to go on about Britnats here. They badmouth this site continually over on WGD where they post sycophantic rubbish day in day out along with Poison Petra and her 10 000 links a day and Flat Earth Ken2. Between the 3 of them they make BTL WGD unreadable.

      One thing this site doesn’t do is kowtow to an SNP in lock down and disarray. Away back to WGD for a cuddle and a wee cup of sweet tea.

    19. robertknight says:

      I’m becoming more convinced by the day that the biggest impediment to Independence for Scotland is…

      the SNP.

      Perhaps ‘Yes’ should sell Independence on the basis that in an independent Scotland there’d be no need for the SNP and the country would, in reverting to traditional left/right/centre 3-party politics, be rid of them.

    20. Famous15 says:

      Joe,

      Your slavers are showing.Is your shift not nearly over?

      Independence is more important to Scotland than the wrongdoing of some of its supporters.

    21. Colin Alexander says:

      Stu Campbell

      Heard any good news about an independence party yet?

      Hint hint.

    22. solarflare says:

      It’d certainly be ironic if the SNP blew up entirely just as the polls began consistently showing Yes over 50%. I think that would be the classic Scottish snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    23. Colin Alexander says:

      Scotgoespop gave another opinion poll result:

      “Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: Day of shame for the United Kingdom as, by a convincing margin, Scots say the Section 30 rejection means the UK is “no longer a fully democratic country”

      Unelected head of state

      Unelected House of Lords

      House of Commons: 533 MPs from England; 59 from Scotland in a union of “equals”.

      Parliamentary sovereignty f drom English Crown in Parliament and a UK Parliament which is EVEL England only.

      The UK has NEVER been a fully democratic country. It is an undemocratic state in which Scotland is ruled by “the sovereignty of parliament” which according to judicial comment has no basis in Scots Law*.

      * MacCormick v Lord Advocate 1953 SC 396, Lord President Cooper stated: “The principle of the unlimited sovereignty of Parliament is a distinctively English principle which has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law”.

    24. TinyT says:

      @RobertTheTruth

      You do a fine job yourself of making this site unreadable Rodney you total plonker hahahaha

    25. Papko says:

      @Solar
      ” I think that would be the classic Scottish snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”

      Exactly, anyone who has followed the Scotland team these last few decades will know how that resonates.

      Always makes me smile when I hear “last campaign YES went from 20% to 45%, this time we will do so much better from half way …..”

      How many games has Scotland went into needing a draw at best or nursing a advantaged?

    26. Colin Alexander says:

      Stu Campbell

      Judicial review seeking declarator at Court Of Session Outer House:

      UK Parliamentary sovereignty is not in accordance with Scots Law as the people of Scotland are sovereign in Scots Law?

    27. Joe says:

      @ Famous15

      Indeed. But I believe stupidity of the scale we have seen deserves to be roundly mocked. Especially since people like me, Mr Campbell and a few others had shit thrown at us if we dared suggest that the SNP are quite obviously not taking Scotland to independence.

    28. Dan says:

      @sassenach at 6:52 pm

      You have to accept that time moves on, just like politics. People come and go for various reasons such as ill health or death, differences of opinion, or simply attrition through burnout or frustration.
      I lurked for a years before I started posting and learnt a great deal from the huge array of articles and diverse btl commentary.
      Presume you are aware your post could be construed by folk that still post here as a kick in the baws / fanny because you don’t like what they say, or the style they say it in, or you’d simply hark back to the good old days.

      People make this place what it is, warts and all, so play the ball, not the man / woman / non-binary individual / or whatever other coagulation of stardust some entity wants to call themselves.
      Graf Midgehunter asked about the other site last night and I felt awkward answering the question because what I said may have been misconstrued or deemed inaccurate by the parties involved.
      But I answered nevertheless, others could chip in if I was wildly off the mark.

      In the lead up to the “exodus” pressure was clearly building due to governmental can kicking in both Kingdoms, and uncertainty about “brexit” day and whether we would actually be leaving the EU against our will or not.
      Passionate people express their views and it escalated to the point a few gaskets were blown.

      We have more clarity now though, and with that I’d hope a conciliatory hand could be offered by all the folk involved to one another which would facilitate a regroup if they are willing and able to accept or acknowledge the circumstances, many of which were out of our control, had a significant factor in the emotive way people acted.

      But then again, what the fuck would I know…other than TR7s are shit.

    29. Joe says:

      @ Famous15

      Oh yes…thank you for proving my point. Anybody who spoke ill of our indy messiahs got the exact type of comment you just gave. How does it feel to be so dumb youll never learn even from the most obvious mistakes? If you want UK intelligence assets go to Holyrood.

    30. iain mhor says:

      @Dan 12:45pm

      Ha! A challenge right enough. I got interested enough to have another look at the TD7 engine (and its resultant grief) I note that the TWOA (Wedgies) in the USA have a custom jig guaranteed to get a head off a doddle.. hmm the phrase ‘Aye, right’ springs to mind, though the Yanks seem to make the plans available to other clubs.

      Anyway, yes you’re right about a few politicians, there are at least a couple of ex civil engineers on the books too. I don’t think its necessarily a biased vetting outcome which skews the political bias, so much as self-selection.

      As my various careers have mostly been technical to a fair level, I’ve ways been asked why I didn’t move into a management role. My response was usually ‘Jeezus no, the utter shite I’d have to listen to and be party to – I’d rather gouge my own eyeballs out’
      I’ve had to sadly give the same response to those asking why I don’t go into politics (List MSP is hardly a high bar) Though, I will not decry all politicians as being useless fuckwits…

      For many people, It’s probably just not in the genes – So, it’s no surprise really that politics (or just being in a doughnut meeting with their ilk) is anathema to those who probably should be there. Or maybe we should mimic the Athenians – you’re press-ganged out your trade, whether you like it or not!
      Instead today, we make do with the bizarre concept of appointing and shuffling political cabinets; on the principle of ‘If you can manage one department, you can manage any department’.
      Here’s your new manager – boing! they’re gone, here’s another – with just enough grasp of the ‘Janet & John’ to wing it for their brief tenure.
      So anyway, I shed no tears over Mackay – there’ll be another along in a minute – boing! ta-daa!

    31. Colin Alexander says:

      The UK civil service and SPADs run the Scottish Government, the politicians are just mouthpieces to pretend there is democratic accountability for the colonial govt.

      So, avoiding giving a straight answer, the ability to lie and have a brass neck about it are the only “qualities” required.

      Many people in Scotland simply aren’t shamelessly dishonest enough to be an MSP or MP.

    32. Famous15 says:

      Joe I would be interested to know how closely you and Stu Campbell really agree.

      My belief is Scotland is as good as other nations of its size,many without Scotland’s people and natural resources.

      I do not beat myself up over some bad eggs who pretend to share my hopes for Scotland’s future.

    33. Dan says:

      @Colin Alexander 8:26 pm

      At least that means the Sovereign Scots now acknowledge we live in a Shamocracy.

      Ergo shit is broken and needs fixing so it’s time to look in oor oan tool kit and dig out the fuckin mahoosif Sovereign Spanner, Sovereign Lever, and Sovereign Hammer and make some adjustments…

      Is there a qualified Sovereignty Engineer in the hoose capable of pulling the tools out the bag in an Excalibur sword style…

    34. dakk says:

      All this sleaze shite with DM and AS,though not/perhaps not illegal is probably a good reason for NS not to be calling a referendum at the moment.

      Add the corona/hiv bio-weopon potential chaos and an indyref campaign could look like a sideshow farce.

      Maybe best to let the waters settle.

      Maybe NS isn’t so daft/over cautious.

    35. Kenny J says:

      * RobertTheTruth says:
      6 February, 2020 at 8:03 pm

      @sassenach 6.52 pm

      Peffers was an abusive and arrogant blawhard. Not everyone misses him. He took up far too much space BTL and flew off the handle at anyone who didn’t take his pronouncements at face value. He provided no references and made many mistakes which were never acknowledged when pointed out to him. Only someone ignorant of Scottish history would be impressed by his unverified and repetitive rants.

      Your sound very familiar – much like a poster ‘Cubby’ who used to go on about Britnats here. They badmouth this site continually over on WGD where they post sycophantic rubbish day in day out along with Poison Petra and her 10 000 links a day and Flat Earth Ken2. Between the 3 of them they make BTL WGD unreadable.

      One thing this site doesn’t do is kowtow to an SNP in lock down and disarray. Away back to WGD for a cuddle and a wee cup of sweet tea.*

      All how true, that Cubby was a aggressive shit. And he had a pal, or maybe it was he as well, seemed to be a tag team. Thankfully gone. R. Peffers, good when I first read his pieces.

    36. Kenny J says:

      Dan says:

      Dan, Ever tried to take the engine out of a Stag. Jesus Christ. Still remember the buggering about.
      And a Rover SD1 headlight, I remember I had to give it a by. And it was only to replace a lamp, I think.

    37. TinyT says:

      Kenny J and RodneyTheTruth, tag team and both aggressive shits LOL

    38. Pete says:

      What a panel on QT tonight!
      5 Remainers and 4 leftists.
      Not even an SNP.
      Maybe they’re busy looking after the kids!

    39. Sinky says:

      Sky News paper review discussing Derek Mackay revelations with right wing commentator attacking the SNP for sleaze and only blaming Westminster and as usual no SNP rep to defend the party (no defence for Derek Mackay)

    40. mike cassidy says:

      Question.

      If the persistent sex scandals of the Conservative Party did not prevent them getting a huge majority

      Why the view that Mackay’s legal creepiness will damage the electorability of the SNP in general and the cause of independence in particular.

      Surely its not being suggested that the English electorate are more pervy than the Scots!

    41. mike cassidy says:

      Apart from the people of Liverpool, obviously.

      Liverpool Council will not fly flag to mark Prince Andrew’s birthday

      http://archive.is/D3R0w

    42. Sinky says:

      Now BBC paper review on Derek Mackay again attacking SNP “lots of scandals” without any counter argument.

    43. North chiel says:

      Question time , rather boring essentially English political forum now . Prefer the paper review on Sky these days

    44. mike cassidy says:

      Turn that fecking Beethoven down!

      http://archive.is/Pk8ok

    45. North chiel says:

      Agree “ Sinky “ @ 1046 pm . Right wing Guido Fawkes reporter given Carte Blanche to stick the knife into Scottish government re the Derek Mackay article in FT , …Unsurprisingly .

    46. Dan says:

      From this last August.

      https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1166745514714570757

      To this today.

      https://twitter.com/TriciaMarwick/status/1225366554667311104

      Hoots Mon! There’s a Ruth loose aboot this hoose (o’ lairds)

    47. mike cassidy says:

      So Ruth Davidson.

      Soon to be yet another unelected bureaucrat.

      She was directly elected into Holyrood.

      Does this mean there will be a Holyrood byelection soon?

    48. mike cassidy says:

      The Daily Record missed out on the Mackay Main Course.

      But are happy to settle for the Mackay Pudding.

      ‘Got any naughty pics?’ Derek MacKay bombarded married SNP activist with messages for years

      http://archive.is/VjNjn

    49. Col.Blimp IV says:

      mike cassidy

      Good fucking grief!

      What a numpty.

      Did the ancient text inspired candidate carnage at the GE escape his attention?

      The man should be buggered and then shot.

      Shaun C should be forced to do the buggering for not exposing the swine through the proper channels.

    50. Liz g says:

      Col Blimp IV @ 1.10
      Is this the “salty” way of expressing yer self ?
      Not a good look Col!
      I expect Scots to use profanity to an ” intellectual bitch slap effect ” not a Westminster fantasy punishment…
      Raise the bar a bit wull ye!

    51. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Liz g

      Point taken, it was a wee bit OTT.

      But did you read the article that Mike linked to?

      Perhaps the catalog model’s youth should spare him the Old Testament style retribution but Mackay’s boundless stupidity is a betrayal of everyone who as much as bought a raffle ticket to help put him in the position he attained, leaving aside the questionable morality of his original misdemeanor.

    52. Willie says:

      Much as it pains me to say it Mackay’s indiscretions reflect an SNP hierarchy that is obsessed with gay, lesbian, bi and trans issues.

      The rights of minorities with minority sexual proclivities are the focus of the current SNP leadership.Gender recognition being one particular example.

      Mackay has done nothing illegal and an older man wanting to befriend a younger man is not necessarily malign. Maybe Mackay misses his children of a similar age because of him leaving them when he left his wife.

      One thing for sure, it’s a rip roaring media story timed to perfection just as Mackay was going to launch the budget. But who fed the media the story, how did they get all the texts…….the security services whose technologies spy and record everyone’s digital existence.

      And Salmond, ten years after he allegedly leered at a woman, whilst making a comment against another Police Scotland spend £8 million investigating. Expect more of the same as independence support claims beyond the latest 52%.

      Mackay May have been stupid but the security services are not. The war to destroy the independence movement is very real.

    53. Liz g says:

      Col Blimp IV @ 1.44am
      Tis fair comment… up to a point.
      But this is exactly what I alluded too earlier.

      Nae predator should have any affect on the proposition!
      Is Scotland to have a dependant society,or it can’t be self governing??

      What a crock…
      Sex scandals are nae measure of our ability tae govern ourselves.
      If ye take a Westminster example… Perversion is almost a requirement.
      We should not buy
      into this play book….
      Scotland can govern it’s self…. How it deals with deviants is our prerogative…

    54. twathater says:

      Came across this link possibly appropriate but I’ll leave it to individual thoughts

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/15078/robin-mcalpine-independence-isnt-about-nicola-sturgeon-can-we-finally-move

    55. twathater says:

      Also came across this link which links to Ian B’s video of Ayrshires woes very enlightening and well worth a read to find out where ALL OUR money is going

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/15064/robin-mcalpine-there-giant-corruption-heart-scottish-life-and-we-need-fight-it

    56. Col.Blimp IV says:

      You are absolutely right Liz, no amount of perversion, criminality, or incompetence from our politicians should diminish the desire for self government … these are the things that politicians are famous for the whole world over.

      I think the public at large became weary of the Scottish Press’ sacred quest to find bigger and better reasons for us to feel “ashamed of being Scottish” some years ago.

      But I do believe that being in the vanguard of the independence movement carries with it an obligation to strive to remain beyond reproach and be constantly vigilant of the nefarious efforts the Britists will make to tarnish the image and reputation of those who fly the flag.

    57. Liz g says:

      Col Blimp IV @ 3.23
      Oh, absolutely Col… What do you think the British will pull next??

    58. solarflare says:

      Forgetting some of the more lurid stuff from yesterday, is there any real indication of where the SNP will get the support from to actually pass the budget? Are we still expecting ultimately some money will be found to get the Greens on board, even if they are making unhappy noises at the moment?

    59. Rm says:

      The Scottish Government, need a mix of people within its ranks, young, old, men, women, straight, gay, university graduates, school of life graduates, white collar workers, blue collar workers, religious and atheists but no one group should have an unfair advantage, deviants and power hungry people will worm their way to a position of power and importance even if it takes years, the Scottish Government have to root out the liars and power hungry, the Scottish people are the real people who should be in control.

    60. gus1940 says:

      Sarah Smith true to form couldn’t resist reiterating in detail for the nth time details of the charges against Eck.

      Given the number of times we have been reminded of the charges how can any possible jurors not be pre-prejudiced meaning that a fair trial is impossible.

      I have thought for ages that the strategy of the Guys In the Black Hats is for the charges to be dropped due to the impossibility of a fair trial but leaving the mud succsesfully thrown and stuck.

    61. Joe says:

      @Famous15

      I have never even exchanged a direct word with Mr Campbell. In fact from what I can tell we have very different politics. However logical conclusions arent the domain of either political side. The fact is we were right, received shit for it and now im mocking you all for it like the gullible fools you all are

    62. Joe says:

      Its all fun and games just now for people to believe the SNP will not do something against our interests even when they say they will do it…im just trying to avoid the same thing happening with the EU. Because i was and am right about Sturgeon and the SNP and im totally fucking bang on when it comes to the EU despite how ugly a thought that might be for the majority to want to consider

    63. Ottomanboi says:

      Icon of integrity
      ..https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzzHTZxXEAAXYCG.jpg
      Those that live in small ponds, livebait pretending to be big fish.
      The SNP would do well to reflect on the slow death of the Labour party.

    64. terence callachan says:

      Civil war begins with the administration in control implementing personal attacks to destabilise opposition leaders
      That is what Scotland has been experiencing since 2014

      One after another
      Leaders in the SNP and the greens I might add, have been attacked with personal persecution much of which caused great damage to reputation leading to resignation but was many months later proven to be founded on not much mor than exaggerated newspaper tittle tattle.

      Expect much worse to come

      So far it’s just politicians

      Unions , business and individuals will also be targeted if they support independence

      Check your personal information watch for signs of interference

    65. Almond Chutney says:

      Liz G, again you misrepresent everything I have been saying. I never said that Scotland shouldn’t be independent, I’m criticizing the approach of the SNP and the ideas of the extreme nationalist.

    66. mike cassidy says:

      For those speculating about the black arts involvement in the Mackay debacle

      IF

      and obviously THAT’S A BIG FECKING ‘IF’

      the Scottish Sun’s political editor is to be believed

      the boy’s mother only found out about the messages a few days ago

      And her natural reaction seems to have been

      I’m going to The Sun with this

      As any mother would!

      Is chequebook journalism still a thing these days?

      Asking for a mother I know.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-51402947/scottish-sun-political-editor-talks-about-his-scoop-on-derek-mackay

      (not archived – for those who want to hear the excerpt)

    67. Graeme says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      7 February, 2020 at 8:59 am

      I’m criticizing the approach of the SNP and the ideas of the extreme nationalist.

      ——————————————————————-
      You mean like denying 5 clear democratic mandates, suggesting to beat up peaceful protesters with batons, or scaring elderly people by telling them they’ll lose their pensions etc etc etc

    68. Almond Chutney says:

      Graeme, how is that related to what I just said?

    69. Graeme says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      7 February, 2020 at 9:30 am

      Graeme, how is that related to what I just said?

      ——————————————————————-
      “ideas of the extreme nationalist.”

    70. terence callachan says:

      Almond chutney….

      Just like others who criticise the SNP approach

      You do not know what the SNP approach is

      Only those in the cabinet inner circle of the SNP know their plan

      People like yourself guessing , using second hand opinion

      The SNP have been doing this a long long time

      Thy know better than anyone what they are up against

      The propoganda machine in the U.K. is the most effective in the world with free reign to do what it pleases every day we see unfounded accusations that use the free press ethos to tell lies and once the damage is done they retract with little or no penalty for the damage caused

    71. Daisy Walker says:

      Right just now, if this were a Conservative Party scandal – for which to be fair, they have some considerable experience – they would have dusted themselves down, walked tall and come out with all the confidence in the world, with some fluffy policy or other….

      Much as I hate them, there’s something to be learned there for the Yes movement.

      And good news comes in 3’s, MacKay, Salmond trial…. and wait for it….

      Hope everyone here is seeing the bigger picture and preparing to go round the SNP with the messages for Yes and Indy. Much bigger than one party after all.

      Its not a question of if it will happen, but when. Once you know that you can put your contingency plans in place, and not get sucker punched. Every individual who graspes this concept and is able to keep operating, becomes a bit of an inspiration to the Yes movement. Keeps us all going.

      Best wishes to all.

    72. Republicofscotland says:

      Well Craig Murray’s your mole was spot on the SNP are not holding a Spring conference, but instead moving it to the Summer.

      Party activists, grsssroots movements, and senior members are furious about this, they feel the Murrells are pushing a indyref into the long grass, and that they’re taking the heat out of a backlash that’s coming their way over the inept way they dealt with our great opportunity to hold one during the Brexit fiasco.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18217487.snps-spring-conference-pushed-back-summer/

    73. Mike d says:

      Anyhow, till we get another independence party ,its vote SNP for me. And its vote yes for independence all the way.

    74. Ottomanboi says:

      @mike cassidy
      The sniffer hound unionist press is all the more reason for those living in the SNP glasshouse to be discrete and circumspect.
      Curiously the same hounds spent many hours searching for dirt on Salmond and claim to have found nothing, until the current set of allegations turned up.
      Politicians cannot count on having a private life, as Johnson found out when the spat with his girl friend was reported by a politically unsympathetic neighbour to the press as an abusive fight.
      Mackay’s behaviour, although not strictly illegal, was rash in the extreme given his government office and the public view of grooming.

    75. Almond Chutney says:

      terence callachan says:
      7 February, 2020 at 9:38 am
      Almond chutney….

      Just like others who criticise the SNP approach

      You do not know what the SNP approach is
      ___________________________________________

      Is it not a fair comment to make, seeing as Wings and it’s administration actively criticize the SNP on a daily basis?

    76. Almond Chutney says:

      Cue a response from CameronB forcing some natural law shit down my throat..

    77. Republicofscotland says:

      Apart from nominating Colonel Ruth (I love the rape clause) Davidson for a peerage. Boris Johnson has also nominated Peter Cruddas for one as well.

      Cruddas has donated over £3.5 million pounds to the Tory party, and £1.5 million pounds to the vote leave campaign which he founded.

      Johnson is rewarding his buddies and obedient lackeys and the taxpayers will pick up the bills.

    78. terence callachan says:

      It’s true

      “By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.”

    79. terence callachan says:

      Almond chutney….

      Maybe not fair comment

      But perfectly true

    80. Republicofscotland says:

      Gary Kelly whose been organising indy marches since 2014needs your help, AUOB has launched acrowd funder for him.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18215806.crowdfunder-launched-auob-organiser-charged-breaching-march-conditions/

      Meanwhile a big concert/indy festival, and family day out has been lined up for the 700th anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18210859.arbroath-700-indy-festival-line-up-like-no-other/

    81. Northman says:

      Why isn’t Scotland independent?

      Scotland were a part of 2 unions. The EU and the UK. There have been a vote over both (independently) and a significant majority choose EU.

      If these two split a choice had to be one or the other (or neither of them).

      When these two split it is quite absurd to treat as a given that Scotland had to go with UK, and to assess independence from UK later or even at all.

      Staying with EU instead were within the mandates (plural), and respecting the votes of the Scottish people.

      The Scottish parliament should have been gathered when the Brexit vote came in, and then declare respect for the vote of the Scottish people.

    82. Dave Hansell says:

      Mike Cassidy, 10:47

      One answer to the question posed is to be found here:

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1225471996701609984.html

      The point made here is of course the existence of a ticking time bomb far wider than the indescretions of a few individual politicians simply because it is not about individuals it’s about wider systemic issues.

      Another can be found in a response I came across to the debacle over the US Democratic Party Caucus in Iowa. A response which is generally applicable rather than limited to a single example:

      “These people cannot even get this right and you want us to give them decision making powers over our lives?”

      One example of hat being alienating around 50% of your voting base is not going to do the business and achieve objectives.

      Points which the author of this blog site has been pointing out for some time and getting abuse for it. Abuse which is of deep concern not least of which is over the sheer scale and level of head in the sand denial at its heart.

      The real divide here is between those who live in the reality based Community and those who don’t.

    83. terence callachan says:

      Mike d…

      Sound decision

      Me too

      When you know your beliefs and your people are under attack

      “If You Want To Go Fast, Go Alone. If You Want To Go Far, Go Together.” – African Proverb

    84. Almond Chutney says:

      Northman says:
      7 February, 2020 at 10:13 am
      Why isn’t Scotland independent?

      The ONLY problem with that, is there is no guarantee for Scotland to automatically rejoin the EU, nor remain as it would ‘legally’ be a new state and would have to apply like any other.

      Regardless if the EU accept the application or not, I think it would only be fair for an Indy Scotland to have that vote of returning to the EU, because while it is true that >60% Scottish voters wanted to remain in the EU, with the terms the rUK had at the time, returning to it would mean some big changes and a lot more policies in regards to ‘new’ trade, currency and accepting Schengen.

      Remember, people can change their minds, and the terms of re-joing the EU are a lot different that ‘remaining’ in the EU in the 2016 vote.

    85. Gregor says:

      @Dave Hansell

      Well said and thanks for the link (couldn’t agree more).

    86. terence callachan says:

      Dave Hansell

      Sorry Dave but that’s nonsense

      Every person on this planet makes mistakes
      In personal life
      And working life

      The idea that there are politicians who never make mistakes is nonsense
      They just haven’t been found out yet

      You have to look for mistakes to find them
      And therein lies the answer

      The Westminster propoganda machine stretches far and wide
      It targets others to destabilise

      All part of life Dave
      You can’t bypass it

      Old proverb

      As humans, we’re going to make mistakes. It’s what makes us human, and most of the time, the most effective way of learning is from a mistake
      Source: https://proverbicals.com/mistakes-proverbs

    87. mike cassidy says:

      Dave Hansell 10.21

      Essential read.

      Especially for those who hoped the gender issue was going to go away.

      Mackay brought down by a furious Scottish mum

      The first of many about to blow up their sense of entitlement.

      And the SNP’s opponents more than happy to let them vent their fury.

    88. Gregor says:

      As individuals we are all prone to mistakes, however, in terms of a healthy functioning society, and in the quest for independence, surely the ‘Bigger Picture’ matters most.

    89. Golfnut says:

      @ Almond Chutney.

      Scotland has already made the choice of whether or not it wishes to be in the EU, and with the numbers in favour growing, now around 73% that’s not likely to change. As far as your list of what I assume you consider negative aspects of membership, who knows, and its why in the 2014 referendum the SG stated clearly that the negotiated deal would be put to the electorate to approve or not. The other deal we would be voting is the settlement with Westminster, which is one of the reasons Westminster hasn’t a hope in hell of parking their nukes in an Independent Scotland. The upside of to negotiating a new membership, is that we get to decide on our priorities, not westminsters, so the crap farming subsidies we currently have, negotiated by westminster, can be revisited, fishing is another. Whatever the deal, that will for us to decide. Sounds good to me.

    90. Almond Chutney says:

      @Golfnut

      Thank you for a civil response, but I wasn’t speaking positively or negatively in this instance, but I accept your point that the tone is negative in regards to situation.

      I was just highlighting that the EU that Scots wanted to remain in, will be different to the EU they will want to join in, post indy.

      The UK had a lot of exceptions to it’s relationship with the EU, one that they can never get back, even if they wanted to rejoin but with everyone saying that ‘Scotland will reprise that same role with the same benefits the UK did’, is utter bullshit.

      Not commenting on an indy Scotland being better off in/out the EU, but it’s not going to be the platinum membership people are suggesting, if they can meet the state requirements also, that is.

      I’m sorry but no, that’s bullshit. Scotlan

    91. Almond Chutney says:

      Ignore ‘I’m sorry but no, that’s bullshit. Scotlan’

      Was meant to be part of the third paragraph, but wanted to alter my tone, without deleting my draft oops..

    92. Dan says:

      Climate Disaster! Or merely just moving to a more sensible and efficient management model of how we use our resources and energy, and the waste we create.

      “Nine astonishing ways David Attenborough shaped your world”

      https://web.archive.org/save/https://www.bbc.co.uk/teach/nine-astonishing-ways-david-attenborough-shaped-your-world/z4k2kmn

      @David Attenborough

      Here’s a suggestion for number 10 seeing as you probably have more influence in the BBC than I, a mere verminous jock, even if I do have an extremely low carbon footprint.

      How about you put in a FOI request to find out just how many fuckin letters are sent out chasing people for payment of a television license.
      Jesus suffering fuck, I ain’t watched the toxic shit box for 15 years and there’s a climate disaster in the making right here in the form of the planet tilting on its axis due to the weight of the mahoosif pile of demands that I or the legal occupier have received.

      Many a mickle makes a muckle, so even though it’s only one letter at a time it still requires the energy for the paper to be produced, delivered to be printed, and then further delivered to the recipient, so cumulatively that’s bound to add up.

      Your programmes are interesting in subject matter such as how people in different areas on the planet exist.
      I’m unaware if you have ever produced a programme about Scotland so you may lack the experience and comprehension to understand that many Scots manage to survive without melting their brains watching the shit the UK deems as broadcastable.

      Recently you’ve highlighted that humans need to alter the way we live to a more sustainable and less wasteful way of existing to reduce the harm we cause to the planet and its wildlife.
      How about you think globally but act locally and start by pressuring the relevant parties to stop being so needlessly wasteful.

    93. Dave Hansell says:

      Terrance callachan 10:54

      Which bit of:

      “The point made here is of course the existence of a ticking time bomb far wider than the indescretions of a few individual politicians simply because it is not about individuals it’s about wider systemic issues.”

      suggests in any way, shape or form, that the issue is about individuals making mistakes?

      The words are the words. And the words clearly say “wider than a few individual indescresions” and “it’s not about individuals it’s about wider systemic issues” as the link provided lays out in Janet and John terms.

      I know high street stores are closing down at a rapid rate but I didn’t realise Specsavers had gone under.

    94. Abulhaq says:

      Some tv person called Philip Schofield has announced he’s homosexual.
      What is it about this particular condition that requires grand theatrical gestures, tears and ham?
      All rather immature.

    95. cirsium says:

      @Dave Hansell, 10.21

      Well said and thanks for the good link. The current focus on identity politics is one way of deflecting the electorate’s attention from issues which require real change like land reform or financial regulation.

    96. Mk1 says:

      Regarding independence, I read a post on this thread saying that the SNP were the problem, I can agree with that.
      SNP MP’s worryingly never venture from the vision, no alternative views are allowed. The control of the message is total and very noticeable. Any other party has MP’s with different views, not the SNP.
      Independence worries a lot of people but the SNP worry them more.
      Scottish Labour are incompetent at best and irrelevant but if they were to reform as truly independent of UK labour, new party, new name and choose to support independence but without the latest stupidly woke visions of the SNP, it could work out better.

    97. Almond Chutney says:

      @abulhaq

      What’s wrong with being gay? You’ve posted a lot of comments referencing your disdain for it.

    98. SilverDarling says:

      @Dave Hansell

      That is a great thread and puts into perspective the bigger picture of the difficulties of breaking that group think at the top of the SNP.

      I am sure that many of the people at the top have decent motives and want a fairer society without discrimination but the lack of awareness of how they are coming across is staggering.

      We are seeing something akin to a grief reaction from some of the diehards here as they process what is happening to their party but rather than acknowledge it and fight to change it they simply deny it or go along with it. At some point someone high up with guts within the SNP will have to challenge them maybe at risk to their career or livelihood but they will be doing us all a service.

      Grace Brodie has tried but she needs support.

    99. Stoker says:

      Republicofscotland wrote on 7 February, 2020 at 10:10 am
      Gary Kelly whose been organising indy marches since 2014 needs your help, AUOB has launched a crowdfunder for him.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18215806.crowdfunder-launched-auob-organiser-charged-breaching-march-conditions/

    100. SilverDarling says:

      *Denise Findlay – Grace Brodie is her Twitter name!

    101. Almond Chutney says:

      In other news, six nations, Scotland up against England tomorrow.

      Scotland, England already lost their first rounds vs. Ireland, France respectively.

      Wales KILLED it against Italy, will go up against Ireland tomorrow with France vs. Italy on Sunday.

      Odds will be on Wales, will be a draconian league this year 😉

    102. Colin Alexander says:

      SNP spring conference now kicked into the long grass.

      Making sure motions of no confidence in the Murrells cannot be lodged?

      Sturgeon spent three years trying to save the UK from Brexit.
      She sold out on Scotland’s vote to Remain, without any mandate from Scotland, and got nothing in return.

      She’s the one that has rejected holding indyref2, using s30 as the excuse.

      The SNP is a colonial administration under the Murrells.

      There will be no independence under Sturgeon’s SNP.

      Sturgeon must go.

    103. Stuart MacKay says:

      Chris Grey’s Brexit Blog is still delivering the goods, http://archive.is/GAPFd

      tldr; Brexiters need to stop campaigning and start governing.

      My take is that the brains that delivered Brexit can’t and probably won’t want to do the governing part. Instead they see themselves as cheerleaders and it’s going to be up to the rest of the UK to make it work. This new, USA style of endless campaigning is also handy as when it all starts to go horribly wrong they will have someone else to blame for the mess: “See we delivered Brexit, it’s not our fault that you cannot adjust to our new globally, competitive way of doing things”.

      The blog post was also interesting in that it had the word “Scotland” it in – first time I can recall seeing it in a long time.

    104. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 11.57
      You’re absolutely correct….
      But I don’t see why your tone is one of concern?
      When Scotland negotiates it’s own membership of the EU of course the terms and conditions will be different.
      Our quid pro quo for fishing will NOT be financial services for London.
      To agree the – Exact – same fishing arrangements as we have right now we will get trade to the value of London’s financial services but it will be a Scotland only benefit!
      That’s a huge plus
      That’s not a concept included in GERs
      Nothing about Scottish Fishing will change but Scotland’s economy will get a boost to the equivalent of London’s financial services…. It’s no rocket science….It’s just that the dots haven’t been joined for Jock and Jean public!
      That’s only one difference!!!
      The biggest one of course is that the Treaty we agree to with the EU will have an Article 50 attached.
      None of this 300 odd year’s struggle to end it Pish.
      A get out clause is included in writing in the package!
      What’s not to like?

    105. Abulhaq says:

      Almond chutney 13:27
      Other than Scottish politics does seem to have veritable swarms of them….nothing.
      In my home culture such an orientation is something you do not ‘parade’.
      And such discretion is respected.
      Surely it’s a personal, intimate matter of no general concern or interest?

    106. Almond Chutney says:

      @Liz g

      To be skeptic is no harm, I mean sure, the thesis of how an indy Scotland will perform is a great one, but it’s not guaranteed in fact. This is what I’m trying to say.

      The example of fishing will always be to prove that very point, because the fishing industry in Scotland is comparable to the rUK, if not more.

      There are also consequential effects from Brexit, without the rUK in the EU, there is more strain on funding which will probably require less rebates and higher contributions from existing members, to be sure, although I couldn’t tell you the calculations.

      I just like to remain skeptical, until proven wrong. I’m a leaver at heart, I admit, but if I was Scottish, I would be one of ones voting FOR brexit AND independence. I just don’t personally agree with obtaining full sovereignty from the UK upon departure and simply passing those parcels back to Brussels.. Negotiations regarding this will be tough indeed.

    107. Almond Chutney says:

      Abulhaq says:
      7 February, 2020 at 2:07 pm

      Are you baiting me to comment on what ‘your home culture’ entails and perceive me as a racist, may I ask?

      Because the culture on the island of Great Britain is a lot more tolerant, and to ‘parade’ that being different is OK is perfectly acceptable. I admit that the level of flaunting is indeed high, but I really don’t see the reason to be pissed off about it, unless you are dead set against it.

    108. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 2.23
      Having an agreement that ye can freely leave is not giving up Sovereignty….
      What on earth makes you think that?

    109. Almond Chutney says:

      @Liz g

      Not the context I had intended at all, I didn’t reference anything about freedom to leave.

      Of course freedom to leave is essentially fundamental, I’m not saying that but it seems that intention of leaving upon joining is very low in the books anyway.

      Sovereignty would indeed be achieved through indy, but is that sovereign at its max when policies are set higher than your own government? Westminster/Brussels, different name, same old shit in regards to control. But you are right in regards to the right to leave… Unless you’re in the rUK and is perceived to be ‘punished’ by the EU for leaving – demanding EU regulation alignment and access to fishing waters, as a few examples in return for being independent from the bloc, or at least with a sensible trade agreement.

      The whole argument is that the UK wants to pursue a Canada style trade agreement, but tell me, do the EU demand access to Canadian waters, or expect Canada to align themselves to EU regulations? It’s all seems very bureaucratic.

    110. Colin Alexander says:

      Liz g

      My comparison between the Murrells and Ceausescus of Romania was specific regarding stifling of democracy by a puppet govt, nothing else.

      Scotland voted Remain, Sturgeon did not defend that democratic decision and instead bargained it away without a mandate to do so.

      They cancelled indyref2 despite the democratic mandate.

      Now they cancel / delay the spring conference to apparently prevent opposition.

      Seems the comparison is more apt with every passing day, regarding the stifling of democracy.

      With the UK State playing the part of the Evil Empire masters that the Murrells serve.

      Whereas Romania was a puppet govt of the Soviet Empire.

      So, aye, I stand by that comment.

    111. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander….stop being such a twit

    112. terence callachan says:

      So almond chutney …..do you live in Scotland

    113. Almond Chutney says:

      @Colin Alexander

      Maybe the SNP did jump too soon. I remember a few news articles from 2014 where the SNP merely considered a second indy ref fresh from the remains of the first vote, before the whole EU fiasco..

      Maybe if they just sat up, shut up and waited for the shit to unfold and preventing England from leaving the EU, that would have gained more support and look less like dogs chewing the feet of a tory government.

    114. Almond Chutney says:

      @terence callachan

      I live in Wales, I’ve said this countless times before.

    115. terence callachan says:

      David hansell…..all of it

      Ticking time bomb , don’t be silly

    116. terence callachan says:

      Exactly almond ….you live in wales

      Your comments on Scotland joining the EU as an independent country are silly

      Tell me…..what fuels your high interest in Scotland ?

    117. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander….I think it is sensible to delay the SNP conference and allow the replacement for Mr Mackay some time to prepare .

      It is sensible to let the dust settle on the Mackay resignation
      And it is sensible to see what the outcome and aftermath of Alex Salmonds court case is.

      Nothing more
      Nothing less

      Good organisation in difficult circumstances

    118. Almond Chutney says:

      @terence callachan

      Indepedence for Wales, there is no memento or appetite for it here any more, not since at least the 1960s/70s.

    119. Colin Alexander says:

      terence callachan

      Care to explain the above “twit” comment?

      The Scot Govt is a puppet govt.

      The situation is comparable between the political relationship between Romania and the Soviet Empire and Scotland with the British Empire.

      Bojo didn’t block indyref2; he only refused a s30. It’s Sturgeon who has effectively blocked it.

    120. terence callachan says:

      Almond chutney

      You say there is no appetite for independence in wales not since 1960s 1970s
      Depends what you mean by appetite
      A little over 20% of the population say they would vote for it
      That’s probably a third of welsh people in wales

      But that does not answer my question
      You say you live in wales

      1) Are you welsh ? Born in wales or welsh parents

      2) why your high interest in Scotland ?

    121. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander
      Then that’s low Colin and incredibly disrespectful to their victims…. How could ye?….

      Almond Chutney…
      Read it again….. My focus was on the ability to leave not the intention….. You agree that we’d get lot’s of good stuff for keeping fishing as it is though… Eh ??

    122. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander……come on Colin be sensible

      How old are you Colin ?

      Comparing Scotland to Romania
      Comparing U.K. to USSR

      Hey I am 64 I lived through the USSR era you refer to
      There is no comparison
      None whatsoever

    123. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Why can’t you pretend you live here, instead of pretending you live in Wales?

      Stupida fackin game.

    124. Almond Chutney says:

      @terence callachan

      I think around 21% according to a recent poll, but that’s not near enough, especially if 50/50 in Scotland is simply not enough.

      I’m Welsh, but I don’t see how this is relevant. My high interest in Scotland is because it’s one of my favourite places to holiday, last summer we stayed in a lodge on the very edge of Loch Rannoch, 32 miles west from Pitlochry in Perthshire. The only problem with getting there is the drive through England. (Joke, but funny between us Welsh and Scots)

    125. Colin Alexander says:

      Terence Callachan

      Salmond isn’t even in the SNP and like anyone else charged with a crime, is presumed innocent, and is entitled to a fair trial.

      As for MacKay, as far as I know, MacKay hasn’t done anything illegal. He’s behaved sleazy and so resigned his ministerial position.

      Sturgeon as leader has lost the trust of a large section of the SNP grassroots. I believe that’s why conference is cancelled.

      She has failed to stop Scotland being dragged out of the EU; failed to lead or make progress on independence, which are the biggest issues; so she should hand the baton over to someone else.

    126. Almond Chutney says:

      @Reluctant Nationalist, you are the epitome of stupidity, clearly.

    127. Republicofscotland says:

      Not defending Derek Mackay in any way the mans an idiot and deserves everything he get out of this.

      However reading the British media, I couldn’t help noticing the thrashing that Mackay has taken (and rightly so) but on the otherhand the same media gives Prince Andrew, who was a close friend of sex trafficker and sexual predator Jefferey Epstein.

      A gentle ride over his “defers” Royal navy Vice-admiral position.

    128. Colin Alexander says:

      Terence Callachan

      The comparison made is regarding the suppression of national sovereignty / democracy, not about Gulags or orphanages or any of the other horrors Romania suffered under the Soviet-era puppet regime.

    129. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      You’re playing the game really badly, almond. Just trying to be helpful, that’s all.

    130. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander
      Stop digging…it was nasty … and fine well ye know it

    131. Pete says:

      RepublicofScotland
      McKay is not an idiot.
      He is an evil, sexual predator preying on a schoolboy.
      Obviously, you are not a parent.
      Andrew, if any of the girls he slept with were groomed or underage is equally as bad and deserves everything that might come to him. I understand the US prosecutor will do everything to get him.
      Stop making excuses for evil people.

    132. Colin Alexander says:

      Liz g

      I’m no being disrespectful to the victims of the Romanian puppet regime. I never even commented on that.

    133. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander
      Then find another allegory

    134. terence callachan says:

      Almond chutney …so we’re you born in wales ?

    135. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Lez b

      *Analogy.

    136. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander …don’t be silly

      Your comparison Scotland the same as Romania and U.K. same as USSR was daft

      I agree that Westminster’s refusal to negotiate with Scotland is bullying
      Long road to go in terms of negotiations with Westminster but there is every chance Scottish independence will happen first and negotiations will follow

      Other wise English people and English businesses and assets become foreign bodies

    137. terence callachan says:

      Pete …you say a schoolboy ,
      Isn’t the boy sixteen ?
      You can get married in Scotland at 16
      You can have a baby at 16 and be treated as the responsible adult for that baby
      You can vote in Scotland at 16

      Yes indeed you can do all these things as a schoolboy / schoolgirl

    138. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander….you said

      Sturgeon as leader has lost the trust of a large section of the SNP grassroots. I believe that’s why conference is cancelled.

      large section ?
      What ….fifty ? A hundred ? A thousand ?

      How many ?

      You can’t answer that sensibly because you don’t know how many exactly have lost trust in NS

      There is one leader and all who vote for SNP will continue to do so with NS as leader if they truly value Scottish independence

    139. Graeme says:

      That’s it then guys we should all give up on independence because Mr Chutney the English Welshman likes to holiday at Loch Rannoch once a year.

    140. Pete says:

      Terence Callachan
      Yes, you can do these things at 16.
      However, I disagree.
      Voting at 16 is ludicrous. It should be 21.
      The system is all over the place.
      I may be wrong but I don’t think you can be named for a criminal offence at 16.
      Crazy

    141. Colin Alexander says:

      Terence Callachan

      As conference is cancelled it prevents the numbers of dissenting delegates being counted.

    142. terence callachan says:

      Exactly Graeme

      There are more like him on here

    143. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      In an effort to focus on gaining Scottish Independence, might I suggest we, here in Scotland, are being “gamed”?

      Thee are the 77th Brigade operatives who no doubt do their OODA Loop thing on WoS.

      There WILL be those string pullers who, akin to a crossover episode of Borgen/House of Cards/Still Game, manipulate the SNP to the point where we now have the de facto McWoke 5th Column causing havoc at ALL levels of the SNP.

      Until Alex Salmond returns as Leader, or Joanna Cherry becomes the new Leader of the SNP, it might be helpful to stop navel gazing and look abroad for a political square-go.

      May I draw everyone’s attention to the London Puppet master supremo, Dominic Cummings. Even the Tories have acidic comments about this destroyer of UK institutions who occupies the number two spot in the Tory Party.

      Cummings owns the Svengali position in Boris Johnson’s inner circle because he won the election for them. Cummings has the same access to levers of power that Alistair Campbell had in his similarly unelected tenure alongside former PM Tony Blair.

      Scotland is barely on London’s radar. Just now the Tory MPs are incontinent with ambition, seeking to climb the greasy political pole in an imminent reshuffle.

      Dominic Cummings will have a role in whom Boris appoints to serve at his pleasure.

      So it might be worthwhile, for those, like me, who truly believe we are better to make our own political decisions in Holyrood than continue under the Scottish Raj and Governor General Alistair Jack, to start working PROACTIVELY to find a way out of this frucking mess.

      Stuart Campbell has heroically highlighted the McWoke problem of entryism taking over the SNP.

      Whilst Derek Mackay has actually done the SNP a favour. Yes, incredibly he has. Mackay proves that the current SNP high command are NOT fit for purpose. Today’s report in The National that SNP Spring Conference is effectively cancelled TRYS to put the tin lid on any grass root rebellion/effort to get IndyRef2 onto the agenda and FORCE the English Gold takers at Bute House to call IndyRef2.

      Given we are outnumbered 10-to-1 by England, we have to be smarter than the English Westminster overlords.

      In a bizarre dichotomy, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc., it might make for some interesting reading to study Dominic Cummings strange website and how he is causing havoc in the Westminster Civil service.

      Am not wanting to go all CameronB and stuff my view of world academia down the throats of readers here (Cameron, I know you mean well, but less is more).

      We are all capable of working Google and conducting our own research.

      With Stuart Campbell off for 8 to 12 weeks, we need to raise our game above the usual trolls and baiting by the 77th Brigade lurkers and their equally corrosive Fundies that inhabit the WoS threads.

      It would do us well to learn more about the forthcoming political implosion of middle England politics and the Westminster Civil Service in crisis under Boris and his feral, ruthless pet psycho. Perhaps have a swatch at this…

      http://archive.is/7ZVeM

    144. terence callachan says:

      Sorry Pete I think if you pay tax you feet a vote

      That doesn’t mean non taxpayers do not get a vote but in my opinion a 16 year old who is working and paying tax and NI should get a vote and if they get a vote then it would be unfair to deny other 16 year olds a vote.

      There are smarter more intelligent 16 yr olds on the planet than some 60 70 year olds

    145. terence callachan says:

      Colin Alexander …you might be right
      Dissent will show at the conference in the summer if people are unhappy
      It’s a long journey
      No rush

    146. lumilumi says:

      Case Derek MacKay is the perfect tool for the unionists to beat independists with.

      What’s not to like: a minister in Scots government revealed to be a child groomer, the goverment implied, trying to cover it up. While the same government is advocating lowering bars on safeguarding young people and women and girls with their stance on the GRA reform.

      Stonewall and others of their ilk, with their rich backers, government funding etc., can take a few knocks, but the SNP Scottish government really cannot.

      I get the feeling a lot of independence-minded Scots are quite fed up with the nonsense the SNP have been doing in the past 4 years.

      Independence isn’t about the SNP. Scotland is crying out for another serious pro-independence party. Somewhere that the SNP “wrongthink” dissidents could go, and keep the light alive.

      Looking from the outside, I think in 2016 Scotland’s independence was imminent. Then the SNP’s policies and actions made it so that in 2020 Scottish independence is a pipe dream… Maybe in 2037 or something.

    147. terence callachan says:

      Al-Stuart….they have a never ending conveyer belt of nutters down there in Westminster

      When you support a cause
      Especially one as far reaching as Scottish independence

      You will never find yourself blessed with perfectly behaved agreeable personalities throughout

      All large organisations have this issue

      The answer to this is

      Support Scottish independence
      Support your leaders
      They will have differing views on many things

      But supporting the cause means supporting the leaders

      Til the next leader comes along

      Continuity is key

      WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER

    148. Breastplate says:

      Of course 16 year olds should get to vote, it’s just a pity that more young people don’t exercise their right to vote.

    149. Dr Jim says:

      Votes for 16 year olds is based on intelligence quotient legal age of consent and the possibility of being a taxpayer, not knowledge of the political system or many people of all ages would be denied the vote, 21 year olds and above are no more able to improve their intelligence than any age, over time people may increase knowledge but not intelligence

      If found guilty of a criminal offence in Scotland under the age of 18 you may be sent to young offenders prison or secure care depending on the severity of the crime

    150. terence callachan says:

      Breastplate…I agree

      we should make voting compulsory

    151. Dorothy Devine says:

      Welsh Sion , if you are about ,best of luck to-morrow I am rooting for Wee Wales!

      I just watched a lovely piece sent by Yes Cymru of Caroline Hitt’s take on independence – thank you to Yes Cymru for sending it on.

    152. Craig Murray says:

      The SNP spring conference has been knocked back to June to avoid member backlash over Indyref2. It was decided by Murrell BEFORE the Derek Mackay revelations. So Terence Callahan that means your justification that it is a good idea to wait was not the Murrell reason. Unless you think she is a seer as well as all-wise? Sadly, you probably do.
      Just as interesting I think it the decision to hold in Aviemore, which doesn’t have enough beds and is already very expensive. The “payroll vote” Nicola commands at a conferece is already about 1,000.
      For MPs, MSPs, HQ staff, Mp’s staff and Msp’s staff, Short Money staff, SPADS, consultants, employees of Progress Scotland (Ahem), employees of NGOs and agencies funded by the Scottish govt, it doesn’t matter how expensive it is, they won’t be paying from their own pocket.
      Aviemore is the perfect venue if your objective is to limit the number of uncontrolled ordinary delegates kicking up a fuss about “independence” and other silly issues that don’t help your gravy train.
      I don’t know what it would take to wake some of you up, I really don’t.

    153. lumilumi says:

      As to the “problematic pronouns” so celebrated in the SJW anglophone culture…

      I resent SJW English-speakers, forcing their gendered ideas on me and my language and culture.

      My language has two forms of third 3rd person singular pronoun. Humans, male and female, are “hän” – no sex differentiation. Non-humans (animals, objects) are “se” (supposedly equivalent to English “it”). Except in everyday speech, humans are also “se”.

      We have a fairly non-gendered language /and culture, and English-speaking social justice warriors are trying to twist our language to suit their agenda.

      That’s cultural imperialim.

    154. Dan says:

      @Stuart MacKay at 1:58 pm

      Cheers for posting that link to Chris Grey’s Brexit Blog.
      Makes for a good read.
      http://archive.is/GAPFd

      re. Questioning the abilities of those required to deliver the multifaceted aspects of “Brexit”, reminded me of this recent tweet.

      https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1225131554332168193

    155. Northman says:

      @Almond Chutney, 7 February, 2020 at 10:41 am

      The ONLY problem with that, is there is no guarantee for Scotland to automatically rejoin the EU, nor remain as it would ‘legally’ be a new state and would have to apply like any other.

      I agree that there isn’t a guarantee. Though I’m not sure that the opposite is a given either.
      If a member in EU splits, would each part be automatically thrown out? That might cause problems for the EU.
      Would one automatically stay in and the other out?

      There is not a lot of precedent, so it might be down to what the EU chooses between the offers made to it. Would it matter if independence from Westminster were gained before, at, or after Brexit?

      Several times in earlier threads the claim have been made that Scotland would be out and England in if the UK splits.

      If that is true, it makes SNPs remain effort even more peculiar!

      … returning to [EU] would mean some big changes and a lot more policies in regards to ‘new’ trade, currency and accepting Schengen
      Depends. Mainly on negotiations, and what role Scotland would choose as a bridge between EU and England. It would lessen the harm of Brexit a lot for EU and England, as the perfect go-between. And it would provide wealth to Scotland. Perhaps most as an independent nation.

      @Almond Chutney & @Golfnut
      Good arguments regarding the EU vote.

      rUK
      Does it really exist if the union ends? IMHO it doesn’t.

      (Thanks Stu Campbell for the sanity and knowledge you have provided, it is appreciated more than you know.)

    156. Can same sex couples get married at 16 in Scotland and is there an age limit between the couple ?

    157. Craig Murray says:

      Just looked it up. Osprey Arena at Aviemore Centre (the biggest one) is only 1000 square metres, normal conference format is 650 people. Fire Capacity is 1100 but presumably that’s not all seated and before you get in TV cameras etc. But even assuming they are going to jiggle 1,000 capacity somehow, after you get in your MP’s, MSP’s, their staff, tv crews, party HQ staff and media, how many ordinary folk is that?

    158. Dr Jim says:

      A second Independence party will halve the chances of Scotland ever being Independent, not double it because all that would be achieved is two smaller parties in support of Independence instead of one powerful party thus giving the England based parties an equal chance to compete for the same amount of voters they have now, creating Holyrood into a 6 party system instead of ridding ourselves of the England based parties first

      The Labour party and the Greens are the most vulnerable to removal, Liberal Democrat voters are just Tories who won’t admit they’re Tories, get rid of them first then you have the opportunity for new Scotland parties to dominate instead of 3 England based parties with an English government controlled agenda

      The ridiculous political impositon of English politics on Scotland by parties who represent that country ( Tories Labour and Liberal Democrats) is the problem

      Just because some sympathetic sounding anonymous people on the Internet say I want what you want, honest I do, doesn’t make it true

      If you want to hammer in a big nail get one big hammer, not lots of people with little hammers all arguing over who gets to hit it first or who gets to hit it the right way

      Scotland is famous for changing managers when we don’t win at football yet everybody knows it’s the system of the SFA that’s at fault, politics is no different, the managers can only do what the system controlling them allows and that system is designed to constrain their ability and desire to do it

      Every Scot has to understand that in order for Scotland to govern itself and progress to whatever we decide to become England must be surgically cut out of Scotland’s politics, every last vestige, every reference, every adherence to everything England must be cut out or the cancer will return and the disease will continue

      Scotland must act as though we are what we mean to become, co-operative not interfered with by an unwelcome regime from somewhere else

      Ireland did it, and what one man (nation) can do, another can do

    159. Gary45% says:

      Good Bye wings its been a blast.

    160. mr thms says:

      terence callachan at 4:37 pm

      “It’s a long journey
      No rush”

      Article 50 has five parts and the UK has only just moved on to part 4.

      Not sure when all of the devolved powers that the EU had responsibility for, arrive in Scotland and when they do, do they go to the Secretary of State for Scotland or to the Scottish Government?

      In April, several UK government departments and 3,000 civil servants move in to the new Waverly Civil Service hub.

      (The one with a ‘Cabinet Room’)

      Something strange about this arrangement.

      Also strange is the EU Withdrawal Agreement having an extendion to the ‘transitional arrangement’ beyond the end of December 2020 which the UK would need to request by July?

      What can possibly happen before July for the extension to be granted?

      A shock Scottish Parliamentary election in May perhaps?

      Article 50 also has a part 5 which I think the Scottish Government will win the right to use during the transition arrangement.

    161. Republicofscotland says:

      By the sounds if this an antidote for the Coronavirus is close, as US man is given an Ebola drug when he had the Coronavirus, he later left hospital.

      Big pharma will make a fortune from any antidote. The cynic in me tells me that this and similar outbreaks over the decades, had a little help in materialising.

      https://www.livescience.com/possible-treatments-new-coronavirus.html

    162. Northman says:

      @Craig Murray, 7 February, 2020 at 5:14 pm

      The SNP seem to be an impediment to independence and have done so for years. At least from the outside they seem to obstruct and delay and prepare to fail.

      Scotland does not have its own broadcasting organization, and during the time of the Vow it would be perfect to press the issue and just establish it. The BBC propaganda against Scotland have been extreme at times. This would have been a boon to Scotland both in the union and as a independent nation. If this had been forcefully opposed it would prove the Vow to be fake much earlier.

      But the SNP didn’t do it.

      SNP should have been absolutely livid when it became clear that the case against Alex Salmond were fake.

      Instead SNP removed him from its official history

      When they are presented with the “once in a lifetime” statement, they should revel in it and say that we don’t quit half way there, and we will get our freedom soon.

      They could have used the opportunity to point out all the benefits Scotland have. To campaign about the reason SNP exists. If they do I haven’t seen it.

      And so on …

    163. Dave Hansell says:

      Terrance Callaghan 2:53

      I take it English is not your first language.

      Unless of course you are being deliberately obtuse.

      There is certainly no way any reasonably intelligent individual could interpret a sentence which says this is not about individuals but about systemic issues, as detailed in the link, as meaning the exact opposite.

      If I were you I get down to the late night chemists for a tube a gorm because you are clearly lacking in it.

      But seeing as I like you today, because I might not like you tomorrow here’s a,few links about that ticking time bomb not just in the political partys like the SNP and the Labour Party but beyond:

      Tick

      https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18213788.oxfordshire-girl-seeks-judicial-review-trans-toolkit/

      Tock

      http://archive.is/DAuW1

      Tick

      https://unherd.com/2019/11/labours-fun-feminists-are-enabling-exploitation/?sfns=mo

      Tock

      https://www.gofundme.com/f/fighting-for-female-representatives

      Tick

      https://womansplaceuk.org/2019/09/28/labours-values-wpuk/

      Tock

      https://www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/20/using-gender-neutral-language-regarding-women-and-childbirth-is-about-more-than-semantics/

      Tick

      https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/take-it-from-a-trans-person-corbyn-is-wrong-about-self-id/

      Tock

      https://off-guardian.org/2020/01/20/identity-politics-nihilism-ego-distraction/

      Tick

      https://thecritic.co.uk/all-aboard-the-trans-lib-dem-express/

      And as bonus, you might want to up your game and join the rest of the grown ups in terms of actually substantiating your arguments beyond the Karl Rove gambit of saying something is so because you say it is so.

      That kind of approach might impress the wannabe post modernist Hipsters but here in the reality based Community, which contains millions of registered voters, it’s just not going to fly.

    164. Stuart MacKay says:

      Pete @4:22pm

      The Americans have the right idea here: No taxation without representation!

      The idea that the government can take your money and don’t give you a say in how it is spent is utterly ludicrous. Frankly, I am surprised that a right-leaning chap like yourself would take such a position.

    165. Ottomanboi says:

      I have not discovered one country in modern times that became independent simply by counting the number of bits of paper in a metal box.
      There was usually something else going on that precipitated it.
      Whether public demonstrations, acts of civil disobedience, boycotts etc the case was made to the ruling caste that the people were serious in their intent.
      Such provocation would inevitably led to errors of judgment on the part of the authorities.
      If the SNP doesn’t shape up the people must.
      The djinn is out of the bottle.

    166. Famous15 says:

      So many people suggesting alternatives to the ballot box.

      Why do I feel they know such alternatives action would destroy our progress.

      I remain a supporter of independence whatever events occur.

    167. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      Ireland had a Parliament that voted for independence following an election where an independence mandate was sought and won.

      It was then shut down by the UK state.

      I’ve no doubt the Murrells are aware of Ireland’s history and that is part of the reason why they bend the knee, to protect their own position as British Empire colonial administrators.

    168. TinyT says:

      @Famous15

      “So many people suggesting alternatives to the ballot box.

      Why do I feel they know such alternatives action would destroy our progress.”

      Quite.

    169. Colin Alexander says:

      Scotland elects 59 MPs and England elects 533 and England wants to keep Scotland under its control.

      The UK ballot box can NEVER deliver independence within the UK system as the system is rigged to prevent Scottish democracy and to guarantee England’s power over Scotland in perpetuity.

      We’ll all die waiting, if we wait for England as the UK State, to give permission and approval for Scottish independence.

      That’s something Nicola Sturgeon is prepared to do, as it gives her and her acolytes power and prestige for life. if we allow that.

    170. TinyT says:

      @Colin Alexander

      Your alternative to the ballot box is…

      Spell it out big boy.

    171. Republicofscotland says:

      Pete @3.35pm.

      Trying to get a rise out of me Pete, you know fine well what my comment said. I shouldn’t really be replying to you, you are the person who called all Scots bigots on a earlier thread.

      As I said on a previous thread commenting to you I suspect your raison d’être is one of the benefit of the status quo. You’re a Chinthe agitator, and I shall treat you comments as such.

    172. Colin Alexander says:

      TinyT

      Scotland must exercise her sovereignty and international legal right to self-determination.

      Scottish constitutional sovereignty and legal rights in international law trump English / UK State conventions of sovereignty of parliament by Crown in Parliament.

      Scotland’s people already voted for indyref2. Current opinion polls suggest the majority favours independence.

      Scotland’s parliamentarians have an obligation to deliver on the mandate for self-determination, so respecting the ballot box.

      *Currently* there is nothing to stop Scotland holding an indyref, apart from the SNP. An s30 has nothing to do with holding an indyref.

      It’s Sturgeon who won’t hold an indyref unless she first has a guarantee from England’s British Govt that they will recognise the result.

      It has nothing to do with England / GB. Self-determination means this should be a decision for the people of Scotland only.

    173. sassenach says:

      Dr Jim @ 5-56pm

      Excellent post, agree entirely.

    174. PacMan says:

      Northman @ 7 February, 2020 at 7:11 pm

      The BBC’s days are numbered whether it’s from Dominic Cummings or from the threat from the likes of Netflix, Disney, Amazon etc. Regardless, it’s hard to see it’s future in the next 5 or 10 years time and even at that, in this present moment the budgets for news coverage is being slashed.

      The argument is that if they ever got rid of the BBC, it will be replaced by a Fox news style network that is even more anti-Scottish than the BBC would ever be. The thing is though, the BBC attracts the most talented of the intellectual types who are subtle in their propaganda and it is hard to see a Fox style network attracting such talent. In that case, with such mediocre talent, most Scots are not going to have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily by the low-brow stuff that a Fox-style network would put out similar to what is put out over there now in the US?

      Thinking aloud, imagine if the BBC was devolved to the Scottish government with funding coming directly from the Scottish government and differed from the rest of the UK where it is effectively privatised. Of course that BBC would have editorial independence and would continue their anti-SNP/anti Scottish independence stance but in time they will learn not to bit the hand that feeds them?

      Of course this Machiavellianism goes against the spirit of independence and what we individually want from it, including myself, which is a break from the current corrupt system. However, will idealism gain independence or will cold hard reality where the practicality of politics needs to adhered to? I’ve never have and never will had a grip on the intrigues of the state apparatus, maybe somebody who has like Craig Murray can give an opinion?

    175. TinyT says:

      @Colin Alexander

      What kind of gibberish is that?

      I asked for your alternative to the ballot box and all I got was Section 30, Indyref2 and sovereignty.

      What does that mean? No voters and supporters of the Union are sovereign too.

      So come on big boy what’s your alternative to the ballot box that you so despise?

    176. Jockmcx says:

      Independence can not be stopped by pushing buttons
      Ie how they won the brexit vote.

      So they have to destroy the leadership,get thier MAN to the top before the big
      Day comes.

      Some people know that.

      Don’t they?

    177. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @PacMan –

      The BBC is clearly a major element in hindering mass awareness of facts that many of us have been sharing for years – makes it all the more remarkable that the polls continue to show a 50/50 split.

      But now we’re also having to factor-in the apparent unwillingness of the SNP to prepare for indy2 with anything like the urgency it professes in public.

      I shouldn’t really say ‘we’ because it’s clear that some people, including Rev Stu, Craig Murray, and possibly the majority of the SNP hierarchy, know ‘stuff’ that the rest of us cannot be allowed to see. Yet. The upcoming trial is obviously a big reason, but the sense is growing that there’s a lot more to it all than just removing one man from the scene.

      The sooner that trial is over the better. Then it *should* be a bit easier to make some sense of what’s been happening re the GRA debacle etc.

      In the meantime, we have to fight on, even if it does feel like we’re blindfolded, one hand tied behind our back.

      🙁

    178. Colin Alexander says:

      TinyT

      I agree those in Scotland who are pro-indy or pro-union share the common sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

      We are all entitled to self-determination via democratic processes, as that is preferable to other ways, such as conflict.

      So, my position is that the ballot box MUST play a central role.
      Ballot boxes in Scotland for the people of Scotland to decide Scotland’s future.

    179. Colin Alexander says:

      The ballot box has delivered a mandate for indyref2.

      That mandate should be respected.

    180. Dr Jim says:

      @Colin Alexander

      You’re such an Arse kid, and like a sheep you follow the other Arses who endow the SNP with powers they don’t have then complain about them not using those fictitious powers to do what those arses are lying about

      Those people on the Internet that you think are just great are lying through their teeth to you and they know it and they don’t give a monkeys if you fall for it as long as they get what they want, and this fostering in people’s heads the idea that Nicola Sturgeon can just dae sumthin plays right into the mindless garbage they feed you that we live in a democracy where you can just demand something and because you’re politically correct and in the right it should happen

      You don’t live in Scotland, none of us do, we live in an English colony at their whim and let, and as long as Scotland has the massive financial assets it does it will never be Independent without the help of the International community or the ability to wage war on England, one or the other, that’s what this is all about and what the FM is trying to do, make firm and concrete alliances and support from the International community

      The Scottish government can and would be removed from office and Holyrood shut down in an instant and people in Scotland would do nothing about it because we’ve been subjugated for far to long and we’re used to being told how the world will work and tough if you don’t like it

      Always Scotland’s solution becomes change the manager from the same people over and over because it’s easy to complain in that way, but it’s not easy to keep working at it, it’s harder work

      If Nicola Sturgeon pushed things any more than she already does, don’t you think she’s been told that and that’s why she has to use caution or we’re in Catalonia country

      Anybody telling you that if they start some new shiny political party to campaign on whatever they say they’re going to do is just a plain liar trying to get inside peoples heads by claiming the present government can do more, they can’t until the help and support comes or is offered

      Now unless you have access to weapons or explosives and several thousand friends to join your new Scottish army
      grow the fu*k up

      You know nothing about the SNP or the FM you just swallow whole somebody else’s faux hatred because it suits their agenda to create it for their own reasons, it’s easy

      Try thinking about the folk who’d have you believe all this crap and what is it they actually do apart from pouring out hatred on a daily basis, what is their actual tangible contribution to anything, and who exactly are they

      They’re mostly nobodies or unsavoury people no one will pay serious attention to, or just folk who want a bit of limelight for themselves

      Nobodies offering you anything here, they’re trying to take more from you, but please send it by Payment method to givemeyourmoney@.comstupid

    181. TinyT says:

      @Colin Alexander

      So there you are, it doesn’t take much for you to change your tune.

      7:59
      “The UK ballot box can NEVER deliver independence within the UK system as the system is rigged to prevent Scottish democracy and to guarantee England’s power over Scotland in perpetuity.

      We’ll all die waiting, if we wait for England as the UK State, to give permission and approval for Scottish independence.”

      8:48
      “We are all entitled to self-determination via democratic processes, as that is preferable to other ways, such as conflict.

      So, my position is that the ballot box MUST play a central role.
      Ballot boxes in Scotland for the people of Scotland to decide Scotland’s future.”

      You’re a trumpet, a blaw hard, a bag of gas. You’re an enemy of Independence and quite simply a troll.

    182. george wood says:

      Dr Jim @8.54pm

      Of course there is a much simpler reason that the SNP doesn’t want to call a referendum unless it is sure it can win ie the polls showing 60%.

      The only thing stopping the SNP holding a plebescite is the SNP itself. If the unionists boycott it it won’t matter if we get enough people voting Yes.

      The UK government is not going to do anything as stupid as provoke the Scottish people particularly as it has sold the tale to well down south that we are subsidy junkies. It will not go down well in England.

    183. iain mhor says:

      @Gary45%

      Do look in now and then.
      I’m about out for a holiday as well. When the most interesting thing in a couple of days is discussing auto-mechanics (and having to plough through the dung infesting the joint just to find that) well, it’s probably time for a breather.

    184. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      Aside from the condescending abusive remarks, I agree with some of the points you make at 8.54pm, especially regarding seeking international support, which should be sought regarding recognition for Scotland’s sovereignty.

      You won’t get talk of armed insurrection from me. That’s stupid talk and such talk should not even be mentioned.

      Indyref2 is not against the law, not against devolution rules. At least no court has ever ruled it so.

      Furthermore, I disagree with the argument that Sturgeon must play within UK devolution rules. It’s been tried. If the SNP defy the UK Govt, I agree Holyrood may well be stripped of devolution power.

      So, what? It has no real power anyway. It has already been sidelined, overruled and stripped of devolution powers by unelected UK Lords.

      Devolution is a zombie of democracy. It’s moves and talks but is an empty shell with no sovereign power.

    185. Breeks says:


      TinyT says:
      7 February, 2020 at 8:55 pm

      You’re a trumpet, a blaw hard, a bag of gas. You’re an enemy of Independence and quite simply a troll.

      Speaking of blow hards and bags of gas, can you maybe remind us all what Ian Blackford was talking about when he repeatedly assured us all that Scotland would not be Brexited against it’s will?

      We all know what a croc of shite that was.

    186. TinyT says:

      @Breeks

      Sticking up for your mate Breeks hahaha.

      Just where are you on the ballot box as the means for the Scottish people to ascertain their sovereignty?

      What’s your alternative to the ballot box Mr Sovereignty?

    187. Chardon d'Ecosse says:

      Hi all

      I’ve only contributed to this discussion twice before – and both times my post has been held in moderation for long enough that I’ve lost track of the conversation. So, I hesitate to join again.

      But, I have to.

      I have to commend the SNP and Nicola on the work they have done, internationally – and in the EU. Nicola has raised awareness of Scotland to levels long forgotten…and iScotland will need international recognition.

      People in France know nothing about the GRA or any of these, ill advised, domestic, policies…they see a forward-looking, brave nation.

      On the other hand, by hook or by crook, Scots are not quite so aware of how much standing they, now, have, internationally.

      The SNP have done a great job, there.

      However, even I have to wonder when Pete Wishart talks about standing for Speaker.

      I have little idea of what is going on in the echelons of The SNP – but I know that independence is the goal for everyone here.

      And it seems like divide and rule is winning.

    188. Phronesis says:

      ‘In so many of the world’s troublesome corners — Cyprus, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Palestine, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Kenya and Iraq — a stamp says ‘Made in Britain.’ Britain cannot undo most of the damage’

      https://on.ft.com/36FmfS8

      Vital that we keep a very strong focus on constitutional politics. Irrespective of whatever arrangement Scotland has with rUK, Scotland remains a country and that cannot be written out of history, the present or the future. A small outward looking but inclusive nation that consistently rejects the policy omnishambles of its bullying neighbour and is preparing for its independent future

      ‘superpolicies’ and ‘policy omnishambles’ to describe the extremes of policy approaches that have very positive or very negative impacts on outcomes that were not the original target of the policy…Although it is possible that a policy-omnishambles was created with mal-intent, in order to cause harms, it is perhaps more likely that it is simply zemblanitous (zemblanity is the opposite of serendipity, in that it is the occurrence of unplanned negative outcome

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666535220300021?via%3Dihub

      ‘The tax due would be based on the value of the land, which is a finite, immoveable resource. Scope for avoidance is naturally limited because land cannot be relocated or otherwise concealed, and therefore adverse behavioural consequences by taxpayers would be minimised’

      https://www.icas.com/landing/tax/should-we-expect-a-land-value-tax-in-scotland

      ‘The report states: “New analysis in the JRF Poverty in Scotland 2019 report shows that the difference in rates between Scotland and the rest of the UK is mainly due to lower rents in the social housing sector as well as Scotland having a higher proportion of social rented properties.’

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51384174

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18217693.scottish-budget-third-scots-now-paying-taxes-higher-rates/

      ‘The number of children in poverty in the UK has risen to 4.1 million, partly driven by changes to benefits. Children in large families have been hit hardest, in part due to the benefit cap and the two-child limit. Those in poverty are also more likely to face digital exclusion which creates challenges for accessing financial support. Scotland and Northern Ireland governments have both spent significantly to mitigate against these changes, (although future spending in Northern Ireland is uncertain due to the lack of government) and the Scottish Government will introduce the Scottish Child Payment in Autumn 2020’

      https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/cco-uk-childrens-commissioners-uncrc-mid-term-review.pdf

      ‘Even more than happened a decade ago, people becoming parents today face a toxic cocktail of unaffordable housing and a stagnating economy, a lack of services, huge pressure to return to full-time work, and a long-running lack of investment in early years provision. These are not – to put it mildly – optimal conditions in which to raise a child’

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/06/early-years-support-priority-sure-start

    189. fillofficer says:

      dr.jim@8.54
      great post
      all true
      but we have been misled over & over again
      our european friends are being deported
      despite being asked to make their home here
      we are being kicked out EU against our will
      despite ianb telling us every day to the contrary
      2016 2018 2020 opportunities abandoned
      had the snp been honest & realistic with US, then they
      wouldn’t be experiencing the online backlash
      my bro is a snp voter but definitely not a cybernat
      he has abandoned them & said he wont vote any more
      i try to keep him in the loop
      hopefully get him back on board soon
      but what the general poulation are seeing is total indecision
      there’s no guts left
      boris now has his majority thanks to swinson
      we are impotent & the international community can only observe as we become another US state
      your contributions to this site are top notch btw
      but we have been let down

    190. Mist001 says:

      ‘We should do this, we should do that’, ‘Sturgeon this, Sturgeon that, Cherry, legal challenges’ etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

      That is the basic content of all the Independence blogs and forums online

      What very few people seem to understand is that nothing’s happening unless Mrs Murrell changes her stance on a Section 30.

      That’s essentially all there is to it. That is the very heart of the matter.

      Everything else is just a sideshow.

    191. Colin Alexander says:

      The point of the ballot box is a way of establishing the will of the people of Scotland, who have a common sovereignty.

      The people of Scotland have ALREADY voted to stay in the EU.

      Given repeated mandates for indyref2 etc.

      But that democratically established sovereign will is being disrespected and sidelined by the UK state.

      Whether someone supports independence, the current union that disrespects Scotland’s democratic will, or some other alternative, the people of Scotland should not be denied the right to choose as that is their sovereign right.

    192. TinyT says:

      @Colin Alexander

      I’m guessing you asked your mum to write that for you LOL

    193. Colin Alexander says:

      Mist001

      You are probably right. But it appears very unlikely Sturgeon will change her view on the necessity of a s30.

      And it appears unlikely the UK State will EVER give a s30 for as long as support for indy is high.

      So, Sturgeon should step down.

    194. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TinyT –

      You sound like the kind of character who sneaks into rooms when you think the party’s over, looking for dregs in the cans and decent doups in the ashtrays.

    195. Breeks says:


      TinyT says:
      7 February, 2020 at 9:47 pm

      Just where are you on the ballot box as the means for the Scottish people to ascertain their sovereignty?

      Typed that into Duolingo but they don’t know what it means either.

    196. TinyT says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      If you’re looking for dregs and doups I’m in the right place 🙂

    197. Republicofscotland says:

      “What very few people seem to understand is that nothing’s happening unless Mrs Murrell changes her stance on a Section 30.”

      Even then I think nothing much would happen as its thought the ringfenced independence fighting fund was spent on winning seats, according to a high ranking SNP insider.

      Of course the SNP deny this, but no one knows where the funds are.

    198. Colin Alexander says:

      To be fair to Sturgeon, she herself has also pointed out that denial of choice, whatever your preference regarding indy or UK etc, is anti-democratic.

      But, then she also denies the people of Scotland that choice because her Imperial bosses won’t respect Scottish democracy.

      By that same token, I disagree that an indyref should only be held if YES is likely to win.

      IF the Union is the preferred choice of the majority, then unionists have the same right to vote for it and win that vote if they can.

      However, it is unlikely to be a fair campaign within the UK system. Whether YES would still win despite this, I cannot say.

      As we have a heavily biased media, especially the state broadcaster, the BBC, who pump out anti-independence propaganda and who did so during the indyref1 referendum.

    199. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TinyT –

      Touche sah! Touche!

      🙂

    200. Dr Jim says:

      @George Wood

      It won’t matter what any polls show 60% 70% even 80% since the election of the new regime in Westminster engineered and led by Dominic Cummings, a Nazi, Cummings will instruct Boris Johnson to do anything but allow a voluntary Independence referendum in Scotland on the basis of any reason or excuse they decide to come up with

      These are people who don’t care about democracy or what people want, they staked a huge amount on this enterprise and they’re not going to let go because some people think democracy is in the rules, they will need to forced into a position where they have no choice

      The EU will help with that by not giving them what they want, even though the New England order will trumpet victory over the nasty furriners they can’t silence all the media all of the time, the trouble will begin in England by this summer

      Nicola Sturgeon can’t just say *tough! Scotland is having democracy* like what she should be able to do, Dominic Cummings will order her removal and Holyrood’s shut down to be commanded over by Union Alister Jack, of that I don’t have a single doubt in my mind

      These people shut down the House of Commons illegaly, remember during the election threatened to remove the licence to operate from Channel 4 if they didn’t *behave* and that to England’s population would be a much bigger deal than shutting down Holyrood, England couldn’t care less about what goes on in its colonies

      I believe there’s a real underneath battle going on and I believe threats have been made, Dominic Cummings doesn’t care about anything as long as he gets his job done but Boris Johnson will care sooner or later because he’ll have to, the fallout from everything that’s going on will land on Johnson and his ambition for his *legacy* as the greatest ever King Boris Oliver Cromwell Johnson

      Johnson has exposed the Monarchy as the sham it is by having the Queen sign the most ridiculous papers creating himself as de facto King of everything he surveys and the English won’t in the long run forgive him for it, they like their Queen more than him and they don’t like her looking silly

      People power will show the world what we want but there’ll need to be more on show to get the world to assist publicly
      then I believe it’ll happen quickly

      The poor old Chagos Islands don’t have anything to sell yet but Scotland does so it’s likely we’ll get bumped up the queue

    201. Dr Jim says:

      Of course we shouldn’t need a section 30 order, we all know that, of course there’s no such garbage as once in a generation, we all know that too

      So next step folk say is go ahead without a section 30 order, OK, so who is going to pay the court expenses when the challenge comes the next day after that announcement, because it’s not the taxpayer, it has to be the SNP who financially cannot possibly ever cope with that level of expense for years in court because at this level it’s no two week case and we’re done, whereas the English government has limitless supplies of money whether taxpayer or borrowed to keep it in court till we all die of boredom or old age or whichever comes first, meaning win lose or draw without International legal looking recognition Scotland loses because the English government will never transfer the facilities in order to govern Scotland

      Scotland needs recognition and support now by the International community that we are entitled to go ahead and once that becomes public we’ll win and we’ll win big

      Because that’s a big part of people’s concerns, it’s not I think that people don’t want to vote for Independence I believe they’d jump at it if they are convinced that Scotland has been noticed by the world and in the old fashioned vernacular *We huv hauners* then people will relax and vote for Independence without needing much persuation at all

    202. terence callachan says:

      Craig Murray ….don’t think so

      Setting back the conference is not because of discontent within SNP voters/ members
      This is going to be busy three months for Scottish government and SNP
      as they see the direction and initial actions of BJ govt
      and as they formulate responses to BJ govt action as well as the fall out from A Salmond trial

      It’s a sensible decision
      There’s no magic formula no hidden agenda just common sense

    203. Stoker says:

      A few sources reporting:

      “Downing Street bans government from using the phrase ‘no deal’, insisting ‘non-negotiable outcome’ must be used instead”

      LOL! Trying to break the fall from 10,000ft with a few pillows. It’s going to make absolutely no difference to what they call it. A spade, afterall, is a spade. Prepare for a crash landing UK. That massive explosion yous just heard was the sound of reality hitting.

    204. Benhope says:

      How can we turn the MacKay debacle into a positive for the Indy movement?

      Is it likely that the security services screened DM`s social media content and passed the information to the Sun with instructions to publish on Budget day to cause maximum embarrassment to the SNP?

      Remember after Hillsborough when everyone in Liverpool very effectively boycotted The Sun and I think the boycott is still applicable today.

      What if everyone who supports independence ditched The Sun and bought The National instead.Perhaps not a huge number, but it would hit these papers where it matters most, their circulation. It would also be a positive boost for The National.

      Let`s show these anti-Scottish,anti-independence papers that if you attack 52% of the population there are consequences.

      As it has been said here many times. Control the media and you control the people. We have been successfully brainwashed and suppressed now for 300 years.

      Let`s mount a campaign to Ditch the Shit Sun all over Scotland!

    205. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just a wee heads-up for trolls generally…

      This place is relatively ‘quiet’ right now, and may not (as Rev has warned) ever get back to what it was.

      So, you can now cavort, jape, make farting noises, whatever…

      But even if this place disappeared tonight, it has inspired a network of connections and friendships which will endure regardless of whatever the SNP/SG does or doesn’t do. It has also set the bar when it comes to the minimum ‘general knowledge’ required for anyone who wants to make a serious contribution to the indy debate.

      I mourn the absence of friends from this place. They know who they are, and they have their own reasons for going elsewhere – that doesn’t mean we love and respect each other any less.

      😉

    206. Katie says:

      I am really sad at everyone bickering here! This site forcme has been a comfort for an independence believer/supporter. I know there will always be disagreement with others opinions but it would be tragic if everyone left and it ceased to exist. I think maybe in times like these we need to stick together in our mission for independence! I know its frustrating but lets just try!!

    207. Breastplate says:

      I don’t understand why some here feel it necessary to chastise people who are critical of SNP strategy.
      Nicola Sturgeon has been very clear that she will not proceed with the journey to independence without Boris Johnson issuing a Section 30.

      “For me to pretend that there are shortcuts or clever wheezes that can magically overcome the obstacles we face might make my life easier in the short term – but it would do a long term disservice to the independence cause that I, like so many, have dedicated my life to.”

      Note the words “long term”.

      “To achieve independence, a referendum, whenever it happens – whether it is this year as I want, or after the next Scottish election – must be legal and legitimate. That is a simple fact.”

      Here Nicola makes reference to wanting a referendum this year but the indeterminate time after a Scottish election has more emphasis.

      Regarding a “wildcat referendum” Nicola says

      “So my judgment at this stage is that we should use our energies differently.
      We must focus firmly on building and winning the political case for independence.
      That is necessary to win a referendum.”

      What this means is that Nicola is happy to continue with the same strategy and won’t change tack.

      “The SNP has existed now for more than 80 years”
      Here also in her statement is a reference to time with no sense of urgency.

      These are just a few points that I believe people who are interested in self determination are quite entitled to be critical of as well as angry or deeply disappointed.

      My personal opinion of an independence referendum is not about one side winning and another losing, my belief is that if you believe in democracy we should quite simply have an independence referendum to hear the Voice of the People and enact that.
      Is that not the whole point of democracy?

      There is a current mandate to have an independence referendum.
      Kicking the can of Indyref2 down the road is an attempt to stifle that voice.

      Now, 2020 is the last year of the mandate and if we have a referendum, then great but if no Indyref2 materialises there will be a massive loss of faith in the SNP leaders and the party itself. This would inevitably translate into less votes, less seats and a loss of power.

      I understand that there will be people who will always vote for the SNP no matter what but there will be many who would gladly place their faith in another independence party after having their trust in the SNP betrayed.

      Maybe I’m wrong about the SNP worrying about moving quicker than at snail pace, maybe I’m wrong about all the references to an actual Neverendum. I hope I am.

    208. mike cassidy says:

      Benhope 11.15

      I give you my 9.17 am post

      ————————————-

      For those speculating about the black arts involvement in the Mackay debacle

      IF

      and obviously THAT’S A BIG FECKING ‘IF’

      the Scottish Sun’s political editor is to be believed

      the boy’s mother only found out about the messages a few days ago

      And her natural reaction seems to have been

      I’m going to The Sun with this

      As any mother would!

      Is chequebook journalism still a thing these days?

      Asking for a mother I know.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-51402947/scottish-sun-political-editor-talks-about-his-scoop-on-derek-mackay

      (not archived – for those who want to hear the excerpt)

      ————————————————————-

      Then read this

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1225471996701609984.html

    209. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Good evening Terence,

      I suggest you study the statutory age matters on legislation such as…

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2014/8/contents/enacted

      With respect, I do not wish to comment on issues which are very likely to be before the courts. Suffice to say that your very general references to what can be done at age 16 in Scotland are a mistake that many folk make. Either a straw man argument or just plain wrong.

      The Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 defined in statute, age matters and along with other legislation, tightened up the age issue from “16” to “18”.

      Terence are you justifying 270 (alleged) texts from a predatory homosexual 42 year old male groomer of a 16 year old schoolboy and that pervert miscreant’s effort to get the 16 year old boy into his home and ply him with alcohol?

      If so, you utterly misunderstand the law, morality and as a parent I state you fail to comprehend the risks that the 42 year old (alleged) pedophilic groomer of children places himself in. The best such people can hope for, upon conviction, is to be a Rule 43 prisoner.

      Whilst serving in uniform, I have had to restrain parents from taking direct action against these disgusting perverts. Now as a parent, I do not know whether I could muster any enthusiasm to prevent natural justice from being dispensed. Protecting the rights of perverts against parental action is one of the most difficult jobs a police officer can have. The gut reaction of most officers is to dispatch the pedophile to the hereafter. Then breathe a sigh of relief as these people NEVER change. Pedophiles should be in jail forever. If the Howard League Penal Reform types do press for these dangerous pedophiles to ever be released and weak, corrupt politicians agree, then such release should ONLY ever be under mandatory chemical castration for life.

      There are NO safe pedophiles. Ever. Period.

      ———————–

      Terence quote….

      ————————————————-
      terence callachan says:
      7 February, 2020 at 3:48 pm
      Pete …you say a schoolboy ,
      Isn’t the boy sixteen ?
      You can get married in Scotland at 16
      You can have a baby at 16 and be treated as the responsible adult for that baby
      You can vote in Scotland at 16

    210. TinyT says:

      Yawn the bores are on. Goodnight.

    211. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TinyT –

      Not sure who you’re referring to there, but why don’t you throw all us bores a bone to chew on while you’re away?

      Do you have anything interesting to say about…anything?

    212. TinyT says:

      When the seagulls follow the trawler, it’s because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.

    213. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TinyT –

      You ‘CANT’ be serious!

    214. TinyT says:

      🙂 You bet lol

    215. TinyT says:

      Rev you’re a wanker who can’t handle criticism hahaha

    216. Liz g says:

      Katie 11.33
      Don’t worry Katie.. I’m not going anywhere and there’s lots of the others too who will contribute as soon as there’s a campaign going on.
      Nobody has really gone anywhere..
      It’s just that a lot of us are in touch with each other directly so our ideas and activities don’t tend to come through here any more….. But we’re all still around 🙂

    217. BJ says:

      I cancelled my SNP membership months ago, rightly or wrongly I felt there was too much talk of UK from Nicola and not enough slapping down of “we are one nation” from the unionists but Nicola is not
      Instilling confidence that she is still as driven as she used to be. I felt physically sick listening to her guff last week.

    218. twathater says:

      To all of us SNP haters and trolls we should all just go away and leave the Nicola can do no wrong and she has got it all in hand gang to rely on the 125,000 SNP members to get us our independence

      It doesn’t matter that we non members voted for the SNP to govern us and to get us our independence that they promised , it doesn’t matter that they are more interested in funding woke organisations to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds to alienate 50% of their voters whilst thousands of Scottish children go hungry

      It doesn’t matter that they have done NOTHING publicly to refute the lies and misinformation spouted daily on the MSM yet ordinary citizens are publishing and posting reams of the stuff every day

      It doesn’t matter that even when SNP reps get the chance on TV or radio they still DO NOT challenge the lies

      It doesn’t matter that Blackford told us CATEGORICALLY and emphatically on numerous occasions that Scotland wil not be DRAGGED out of the EU against our will , and Nicola stated that we will have a referendum in 2020 , but now maybe no

      And anyone thinking of starting a new indy party to reinforce the indy cause and maybe shift some of the yoonionist arses out the SP don’t do it because you will split the indy vote , or is it maybe you will force the SNP to get up off their arses or is it maybe you will just threaten their hegemony

      Its really bad that it has had to take ordinary independence supporters to take on a legal challenge to prove that Scotland has the right to hold an independence referendum

    219. manandboy says:

      http://gladstonediaries.blogspot.com/2020/01/brexit-in-historical-perspective-age-of.html

      Seriously, this is a very important article for any proper understanding of the United Kingdom in the European Union.

    220. manandboy says:

      Let’s refocus.

      The SNP is A MEANS TO AN END.

      The SNP is not perfect, who is, but it is indispensable – until Independence and for the foreseeable future.

      Independence is our goal and should never be undermined.

      Independence will not be achieved by an emotionally upset Scotland which can’t think straight.

      We’ve tried that already.

    221. Breeks says:

      I have a copy of correspondence from the Scottish Government….

      “As you highlight in your email, the constitution of the United Kingdom is found across customs, practices – some unwritten – and various accumulated pieces of legislation. The Acts of Union between Scotland and England are among those founding statutes.

      More recently, however, the Scotland Act 1998, the Scotland Act 2012, the Scotland Act 2016, as well as the European Communities Act 1972 form the basis upon which Scotland is governed.
      These statutes, agreements and associated conventions, such as the Sewel Convention, set out the roles and responsibilities of the Scottish Parliament and Government, and those of the UK
      Government and Westminster.Therefore, Scotland’s current place within the United Kingdom, and the United Kingdom’s (and Scotland’s) relationship with the EU is formed from a combination of laws and practices built up over time, which cannot be seen in isolation

      This is all devolved assembly legislation, written in Westminster and inside my lifetime. Kinda poignant that it forgets or doesn’t specifically mention the Claim of Right or Scotland’s National Constitution, which the Acts do.

      I’ve asked for clarification of impeachment protocols when Scotland’s Sovereignty has been subjugated…. I’ll pass it on when it comes.

      Incidentally, the BritNats draw the Scotland Act like a gun, to use the expression about Lawyer Dagget from True Grit, but I would encourage you to have a wee read. Because as documents go, it’s pretty lightweight on matters of Constitution.

      We’re all familiar with (8), of course, which opened the door for Westminster to a drive a coach and horses through the Scotland Act, but it’s a yardstick for the lack of rigour and seaworthiness of the whole text.

      (7)This section does not affect the power of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to make laws for Scotland.

      [F23(8)But it is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.]

      Read it people. It’s boring drudge I know, but it is a million miles away from forming the Constitution of a Nation. It is closer to forming the protocol for a parent teachers committee.

      And hey, if Westminster can drive a coach and horses through it, why in God’s name can’t we? We can drive the whole battalion of YES bikers through it.

    222. Graeme says:

      I think Nicola knows any preemptive action such as calling a “wildcat” indyref or following the Craig Murray route would force Boris Johnstones hand and give him the excuse he needs to send in the cavalry.

      We don’t have to look too far back into history to see the British have never been slow in using military force to protect their interests and keeping Scotland in the union is very much in their interests.

      We need the international community firmly on our side, we can’t do this alone and 52% is not enough, we had our chance in 2014 and in true Scottish fashion we blew it thanks to the No voters who I will personally never forgive, but nonetheless we came close and it scared the shit out them.

      Consequently no British government will ever allow that to happen again, we will never get another S30, that ship has sailed, I believe Nicola knows that as well but she has to force them to deny us it.

      So it looks very much now like there is no peaceful democratic route to independence, we will have to fight for it hopefully in the non violent sense although that is looking increasingly unlikely, the problem facing us now is if we don’t fight Scotland is finished for sure, it’s all or nothing now.

      I think Alex Salmond foresaw all this back in 2014 which is what he meant when he said this was a “once in a lifetime opportunity”, he knew Indyref1 would be our only chance to do this peacefully and democratically.

      There is no logical reason why a man like Alex Salmond who has dedicated his life to Scottish independence suggest an independence referendum should be a once in a lifetime event, but knowing the British as well as he does he knew it would be.

      So I think Nicola is right to exercise caution at this point and keep preparing the ground and build support she only has to look across the Irish sea to see what happens when you give the British an excuse to send the troops in and they won’t think twice of sending them in if we threaten their precious union.

      A day of reckoning will have to come, the current situation is unsustainable, Scotland and the UK can no longer exist in the same time & space, they are now mutually exclusive if we win the UK is finished, if they win Scotland is finished there’s no in between

      Anyway that’s my take on the situation for all it’s worth, I honestly fear for my country and I think we could be in a far more dangerous situation than we realise, that said I may be reading it completely wrong, I hope I’m reading it completely wrong

    223. Robert Louis says:

      Folks posting on here regarding Mackay, and suggesting or implying it is related to his homsexuality can just GTF.

      Many, many years ago, in the fight for GAY rights, one of the nastiest claims by the hateful, pig-ignorant bigots of the day, was that all gay men were predatory paedophiles. This is a gross insult to all gay people. It was then, and it is now. More to the point, it is not borne out by cold hard facts.

      Gay people are no more likely to be paedophiles than straight people.

      Mackay could be gay OR straight or whatever, but that is NOT the point. The issue was he was in elected public office, with considerable power and authority, whilst allegedly constantly contacting a 16 year old, who is still at school, with offers of treats and trips. THAT was the problem. His alleged actions were not acceptable.

      Those who on here are trying to link this with anti-gay nonsense from the dark ages, can just GTF. I mean seriously, just f*** right off.

    224. Robert Louis says:

      Graeme at 0721,

      Your posting is interesting, but I have to disagree about ‘sending in the troops’. Maybe long ago that could be done, but honestly, it would have such catastrophic effects now that it really isn’t an opition. Firstly, it would galvanise support for Scottish independence, literally within seconds. Secondly, the global politicial perspective on Scotland is much different both towards Ireland and to Scotland now.

      I know people often talk of such things, but honestly, when you think through the likely outcomes long term, it is a complete non -starter for Westminster.

      I also disagree with your posting, since you call an indyref without Westminster approval, a ‘wildcat’ indyref. There is literally no such thing. The supreme court in London, ruled that the brexit referendum which was actually held and approved by Westminster was merely advisory, so the notion that a referendum held in Scotland would be anything other than that is nonsense.

      Scotland is a country, not a territory, possession or region of England.

      Indy supporters generally should not fall into the trap of adopting unionist terminology. There is no such thing as a wildcat referendum or an illegal referendum. That is unionist language.

    225. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 0721am,

      You are right. The ONLY people in the entire uk continuing to adhere to these ‘norms’ and ‘consitutional niceties’ from Westminster, are the Scottish Government. Westminster, on a near daily basis just ignores them.

      The Scottish Government should be asserting our constitutional rights, instead of allowing England (and it IS England via its London parliament) to dictate what Scotland can or cannot do.

      It would be great if we had a Scottish Government with a backbone. Sadly, the SNP have become complacent, lazy and throughly thoroughly arrogant. They now take the independence supporters votes and support for granted, and treat us with nothing short of contempt.

      Whilst brexit happens, Nicola Sturgeon focuses on anything else she can. Effectively, sitting on her hands, waiting and waiting for ‘permission’ from her superiors in London, England. Where is the fightback? Where is the initiative? Nothing, just nothing. She follows, she doesn’t lead.

      I will soon, too, give up on all of this. We had our chance in 2014. Oh how I wish Mr Salmond had not stood down, but he was a man of honour, and respected our votes. It seems the flames of independence are being allowed to die by the current SNP ‘leader’ship. The do-nothing party.

    226. Graeme says:

      Robert Louis says:
      8 February, 2020 at 8:11 am

      Graeme at 0721,

      “I also disagree with your posting, since you call an indyref without Westminster approval, a ‘wildcat’ indyref. There is literally no such thing.”

      I 100% agree but I couldn’t think of better terminology for what I was trying to say which is why I put it in inverted commas

    227. Robert Louis says:

      When there is NO leadership, there is disarray and division.

      We have no leadership.

    228. Ottomanboi says:

      @RobertLouis
      Unfortunately, the evidence from the Catholic church’s experience suggests there is more than a grain of truth in what some are posting re homosexuals and an interest in the pubescent. The scandals have overwhelmingly been homosexual in character.
      Some in the Catholic church believe those of a homosexual orientation, let alone practice, should not even be admitted to the priesthood as their influence has been so destructive.
      As far as Scotland is concerned, Sturgeon’s weakness as a leader has been made manifest by the choices she has made of colleagues and advisors whether homo, heterosexual or gender neutral etc.

    229. Robert Louis says:

      Ottomanboi,

      I’m not about to listen to the thoughts of the virulently homophobic Roman Catholic church. To translate THEIR OWN failings as somehow being a reflection of society at large, is folly.

      You can if you so wish, but then people might see your not so thinly-veiled homophobia for what it is.

    230. Terry says:

      Leave off having a go at homosexuals. It’s not on. The MAN was creeping on to a schoolboy. He’s a politician in a position of power. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. 95% of deviant sexual behaviour/crimes are committed by men.
      Let’s keep it positive. John curtice was saying this shouldn’t affect the snp. Alex massie said Nicolas speech last Friday was good. WTF? Praise by unionist lackeys? Has it crossed anyone’s mind yet that it might serve their purposes to keep the snp afloat? If it collapsed the vacuum would readily be filled. Witness neale Hanveys election. Their real opponents are the independence movement. We are stronger than we think.

    231. robertknight says:

      Wouldn’t it be just desserts if AS dropped NS in the s**t during the forthcoming trial as to what/when the allegations against him were discussed.

      She’d have no option but to go, and take her ultra-woke cabal with her.

      Our Lady Caesar should beware the ides of March.

    232. Dave Hansell says:

      Manadboy 6:53

      This piece is also pertinent:

      http://archive.is/GAPFd

    233. Liz g says:

      Robert Louis @ 8.01 & 8.52
      Well said Robert..
      Clearly some people still live in the Dark Ages when it comes to homosexuality.
      They do children no good either when they look in the wrong direction for a threat to them.
      As to the Catholic church…. Where to even start?
      Clearly that ignoramus Ottomanboi just totally discounted all the wee girls who were targets of paedophile priests just as much as the boy’s were…. And likely still are.
      Sadly some are so frightened and fascinated by homosexuality they can’t speak intelligently of it and this has worrying implications also for what it says about the understanding of consent…
      Consent is the key and just why that’s not obvious to everyone with a mind yet,is baffling!

    234. Clapper57 says:

      Robert Louis at 8.01am & Liz g @ 11.36am

      Well said Robert & Liz.

      Grooming online…..STRAIGHT men….posing as young men…targeting young GIRLS…

      Rich STRAIGHT men….targeting young GIRLS….discreet ‘parties’ behind closed doors and on remote islands, thus inaccessible to the scrutiny of the media, being arranged with THE sole purpose of sexual gratification…a la Epstein….and I am sure many many others indulge in this STILL….from ALL walks of life…including political.

      If you see this as solely an issue that you identify is caused because of a person’s sexuality then perhaps it is more to do with your bias as opposed to the concern you seem to be voicing on this matter….and that then , by others, is seen as being your real intention and not, as you would have us believe, the actual incident itself….political differences , for some, seem to also come into play….but that is a totally different issue.

    235. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 1.36pm

      ” STRAIGHT men”…actually STRAIGHT OLDER men.

    236. Confused says:

      news from a parallel, saner dimension than our own …

      in amazing revelations, elton john has announced he is – not gay, but totally normal – the tension of living as a gay man for 30 years took its toll, but the final straw was the discovery of a razzle under the floorboards

      in a teary admission elton said

      “I love blondes with big tits and hairy fannies, big arses, long legs – I can’t get enough minge, Im madferit”

      – his partner of 25 years was not available for comment, custody of the children is to be decided

      elton was last seen on the pull with the lads, running game on a naughty nurse from a hen party – he plans to release a cover version of “boom bye bye” by buju banton, a move denounced by peter-thatched-cottaging of stone-glory-hole-in-the-wall

      gordon the gopher and #metoo revelations to follow – claims schofield was a “power bottom”

      and michael barrymore is looking for work as a swimming coach

      in further shocking admissions, a scout master was found to have – done nothing whatsoever – on a camping trip with a strapping gang of feisty 13 year olds; some of the boys are receiving counselling at being found “unattractive”

      china announces first male-to-male transexual, and in response

      – japan announces first trans-to-trans meta-transexual, which some scientists believe impossible

      holyrood to be shutdown and converted to a gay disco – little alterations are required but a glitterball will be added to the chamber and the speaker replace by a trance/techno DJ; patrick harvies karoake “i am what i am” to herald the opening of parliament

      scotland team shows its new uniform – the arseless leather chaps a bold statement

      gender theory has been rocked to its core as new census statistics show 197 of the 205 genders have absolutely no-one even claiming to belong to them, nor are there any definitive tests for membership – some radicals think a breakthru could be possible

      – Prof Wankstain of Cumbridge university has even claimed :

      “it could be there’s like only TWO main things, then a mish-mash of freaks, weirdos, saddoes, wannabes and assholes-without-a-fucking-clue whether they’re coming or going, or whether their arsehole is a hole in the ground … but we need more research – so fund my research”

      cure for aids found – its called “behaving yourself”

      all women on the BBC and in public life found to be trannies – emily maitliss having the largest penis ever recorded

      SNP launch new election broadcast : click to 09:30 for the short version

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=s-WE9HBqL5g

      – fucking mad idea … howzabout – we get INDEPENDENCE first … then youze can all go down the leather bars after? … behind the laughter, only sadness

    237. manandboy says:

      SECTARIANISM invariably turns a blind eye to a BALANCED perspective.

      In a country which has exercised, often extreme, anti-Catholic sectarianism since 1560, it should come as no surprise that the MSN never reports the enormous good done every day by the 99.9% of catholic Christians, both here and worldwide, who continue incidentally, to be mortified at the criminal conduct of a tiny minority.
      Would that Westminster exercise it’s judicial responsibilities in this area, most notably paedophilia, as rigorously as the Catholic Church has done, and continues to do. But then Westminster has far bigger crimes, nay atrocities, to keep hidden. To them, paedophilia at Westminster is very small beer indeed.

    238. twathater says:

      Breeks @ 7.21 am As you have stated time immemorial the fault lies with devolution and the incompetence of our representatives and negotiators to spot these TRAPS in the wording of the Scotland acts , the haste and desperation for devolution has cost us dearly

      But as with any contract there has to be a means and direction with which to nullify and dissolve these contracts

      The very fact that Scots have the LEGAL right to determine their choice of government is unarguable and is one way to drive the said coach and horses through these acts , it ONLY requires a referendum of the people of Scotland to determine their choice , there is nothing written in these acts to declare that we only have one or two chances or that a certain time has to pass before we can have another go

      The problem we have is that we have a FM who has declared that we cannot determine the wishes and desires of the people of Scotland through a referendum because she NEEDS the wastemonster government to agree to the outcome , which because of the narrowness of the last result and the ongoing clusterfuck they will never agree too

      It is a complete TRAVESTY that so much time has been wasted and it is not the buffoon bozo who is BLOCKING our road to independence and a better future for our children and grandchildren , but the very person we elected to get us our independence Nicola Sturgeon

      The other way as you say would be to resurrect the true parliament of Scotland and defy wastemonster

    239. Almond Chutney says:

      Graeme, Terence,

      Are you both idiots? ‘Just because I holiday @ Loch Rannoch,’ you think I think you should give up on indepedence?

      I have said about 1000 times on this site I support Scottish independence, or at least the right to choose in a referenda.

      The only critique I have ever given is the status of indy Scotland and the EU, which I won’t go into but you should really rant your anti-unionist agenda on somebody that actually supports the union, i.e. not me.



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