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Wings Over Scotland


The meanings of life

Posted on March 02, 2014 by

This week’s edition of the Sunday Herald is a “referendum special” marking 200 days of the campaign to go (although actually it doesn’t have an awful lot more referendum coverage than a normal issue).

sh200

There are lots of things worth reading – as ever, we recommend spending a modest 69p for a digital copy via PressDisplay – but what really caught our eye were the two interviews with the heads of the Yes and No camps, Blairs Jenkins and McDougall.

The the two pieces are lumped together as one online, which makes it slightly easier to pick up on the thing that really jumped out at us. See if you can spot it.

BLAIR JENKINS:

“Blair Jenkins is proud of no longer being in control of the Yes campaign. In his 20 months as chief executive of Yes Scotland, the cross-party independence movement that includes the SNP, Greens and Scottish Socialists, he says it has mushroomed to such an extent it has developed a life of its own.

Now, on the eve of a spring campaign offensive, things are well past the point where it is possible to track everything Yes Scotland’s volunteer army is getting up to. Ignorance really is bliss in such matters.

‘There is so much of it going on now,’ he explains cheerfully in his Glasgow headquarters.

‘Referendum cafes, public meetings, it’s enormous. We’re no longer able to have an accurate handle on what’s happening, because like a proper grassroots campaign it’s self-generating, it’s autonomous, people are getting on with it. The scale of that is quite phenomenal.'”

BLAIR MCDOUGALL:

“The ‘fence-sitting period’ is well and truly over, declares Blair McDougall as both sides of the indyref campaign mark 200 days until the vote.

The campaign director of Better Together, the pro-union campaign formed by Labour, the LibDems and the Tories, says the referendum is finally coming into focus for voters.

Chancellor George Osborne ruling out of a formal currency union with an independent Scotland; EC president Manuel Barroso raising the spectre of long, hard EU negotiations on EU membership; and household names such as Standard Life warning of jobs moving south in the event of a Yes vote.”

One campaign director rejoicing in the enthusiasm of ordinary people getting out on the streets to make their country better. The other glorying in deploying a hated Tory Chancellor, a right-wing Eurocrat and Conservative-supporting big business with a history of opposing devolution to frighten people into thinking their nation would be too wee and too poor to make a success of running its own affairs.

Just our biased spin? Hardly. McDougall admits it openly:

“He won’t discuss the detail behind Osborne’s announcement, but it is understood the Better Together parties agreed the line and the schedule more than six months ago. Rather than a reaction to recent polls, the timing was set to coincide with the onset of the financial reporting season, forcing big businesses such as Standard Life to comment.

Better Together’s plan now is to link currency to the cost of living crisis and job security, more pressure points for swaying voters.

‘For those people in the middle, it’s much more a personal transactional decision, about their own finances and their family’s finances.’

It’s not inspirational – reducing a historic moment to getting people in a sweat about their bank balance – but ‘if it works, it works’ is the calculation at Better Together’s headquarters in Glasgow.

‘Our strategy is working,’ insists McDougall. ‘Our message will always be the economic risk and gamble of independence versus the safer, better way to create a better Scotland through devolution, which offers you distinctive decision-making with the back up of the UK.'”

The last words on the Yes Blair, in contrast, are these:

“Jenkins isn’t a campaign wonk trying to grind out a result. He’s a believer, hoping that big inspirational themes – opportunity, optimism, change – will convince people to back independence. The job, he says, remains ‘an absolute pleasure and privilege’, despite challenging weeks.

‘I come to work every day with a spring in my step and a song in my heart because I am absolutely convinced this is the right thing for Scotland to do. I have never felt this energised and enthused by anything I’ve done in my life as I am with this.

I fundamentally believe Scotland will be a healthier, wealthier, happier society as an independent country. That gets you through the toughest week.'”

Hope and positivity versus threats and fear. The independence debate in a nutshell.

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    1. 17 03 14 18:48

      This Road Won’t Build Itself: A Song For Scottish Independence | National Collective

    80 to “The meanings of life”

    1. An absolutely excellent summation of the two campaigns from both Chf Execs and another milestone – the first honest utterances by Blair Macdougall!

    2. indigo says:

      What a difference in tone, says it all really. Going to nip out and buy a copy of that shortly – the Sunday Herald’s balanced approach deserves support methinks.

    3. Juteman says:

      The boxing glove picture is pretty apt, with Scotland on the left.
      McDougall is just a functionary of the state. After this job, he will probably move on to oversee hospital closures or such like.

    4. Grouse Beater says:

      Get busy living or get busy dying.

      “I find I am so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it is the excitement only a freeman can feel, a freeman at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain.

      I hope I can make it across that promised border. I hope to see my friends and shake their hands. I hope independence is as fine as it has been in my dreams. I hope …..”

      (Slighly adapted from The Shawshank Redemption)

    5. Seasick Dave says:

      …which offers you distinctive decision-making with the back up of the UK.’

      The £1.5 trillion debt back up you mean?

    6. Adrian B says:

      The £1.5 trillion debt back up you mean?

      Actually the running total is now above 6 Trillion. The problem with Government figures is all the stuff that they leave out!

    7. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Please,everybody, get out and buy the Sunday Herald. It must be encouraged.

      As well as really incisive stuff from Macwhirter the financial pages are extremely hard hitting with a particularly useful demolition of the Better Together scaremongering by David Simpson who was financial adviser to Standard Life for 12 years

    8. G H Graham says:

      What McDougall says …

      “It’s not inspirational – reducing a historic moment to getting people in a sweat about their bank balance – but ‘if it works, it works’ is the calculation at Better Together’s headquarters in Glasgow.”

      What McDougall means …

      “Me & my unionists chums are in a sweat about our bank balances. Fuck the electorate. If YES wins, we’ll all have to find a proper job in a shit economy. And the Unionist MP’s will no longer enjoy a tax payer funded lifestyle.”

      I said it last year & I’ll repeat it here; the Unionist camp has but only one thing in its mind – protect their own self interests above everyone & everything else. If the price is denying Scots their democratic right to self governance, they don’t give a shit.

    9. cadgers says:

      Why is the union glove bigger the Saltire? Are they trying subliminals? If so it’s nae working. Like the upbeat Blair Jenkins.

    10. KillieBoab says:

      As indigo says, The Sunday Herald is clearly the only one of the MSM giving balance to their coverage. I have just bought a copy on my way home from another 90 minute YES newspaper delivery. My first newspaper purchase in many months.

    11. KillieBoab says:

      Friday night’s Irvine debate, which included Tommy Sheridan and Brian Donohoe, is being broadcast here from 12 noon … http://irvinebeat.com/

    12. Macart says:

      What a vile, nasty piece of work.

      To deliberately instil fear and uncertainty in your own electorate, your own people. FFS.

      We’re better than this and we deserve better than this.

    13. Ken says:

      While commenting on a Cornish website recently, which was discussing Scottish independence, I advised them to watch the Ch.4 News edition which featured Alistair Darling and Pat Kane. I asked them, after watching, which message they would find most attractive if in Scottish shoes. The venom and negativity of NO, or the aspirational positivity of YES?

      As is the case with Jenkins, I pointed out that Pat Kane is not an SNP supporter, but someone who seeks a better way for his country and they should refrain from the constant SNP bashing which taints a number of their comments . I should say that they are no worse, perhaps even better, than a lot of Scottish sites. A predictable result of being inundated with all the nonsense we are only too familiar with, but unacceptable never the less.

      The two contributions above are yet another example of the stark difference between YES and NO. I still buy the Sunday Herald, the only paper which is a regular purchase these days, and was rewarded this morning by this article along with Iain McWhirter’s and Ian Bell’s contributions. As Jenkins himself says, it gets you through “the toughest week”.

    14. Iain Bell says:

      Adrianb,£6 trillion? You have to explain how you got there!

    15. Welsh Sion says:

      My boxing story:

      16.

      The boxing match

      There’s an engrossing boxing match taking place at the moment in the Britannia Stadium. Let’s go over and see what’s happening. It’s proving to be an exciting bout with the old, experienced champion, George Britten, in the red, white and blue shorts, trying to retain his crown from the challenger, Jock Scott in the blue and white shorts.

      The first three or four rounds have gone the old Champion’s way. His experience seems to have outshone that of his challenger, and he has landed a number of punches to Jock Scott’s body. Under his new trainer – known for his gold and black suit, and called Nat – Scott has learnt how to trade a few blows with George Britten, but over those first few rounds, has not inflicted that much damage. Elizabeth Britten would have been proud of her boy.

      A little jab from Scott early on – known as the McIntyre – initially irritated the Champion, but Britten soon shrugged it off.

      A few rounds later however, and it can be seen that Scott was beginning to gain in confidence from the fact that Britten has not succeeded in knocking him out. A quick upper cut to the chin – Scott’s trademark ‘Ewing punch’ – comes out of nowhere and stunned the Champion. Soon, Britten was on the ropes and Scott tried to press home his advantage.

      The boxers were locked together and, with Scott aiming for the winning punch, the referee shouted out “Break!” and stepped in to divide them. (Scott would later complain that the referee had ordered them to break too early – he was ahead on points and about to deliver his winning punch).

      The longer the boxing match went on, the older Champion became more and more sluggish. He started receiving blows and cuts at the hands of his much younger Challenger and his cauliflower ear became more and more noticeable.

      It was then that Britten decided to change his tactics. He began to hit below Scott’s belt – a highly dubious, if not illegal boxing move. Luckily, the referee saw this and awarded the round to Scott, warning Britten that if he did it again he would be disqualified. This enraged Britten further and he started to up his illegal behaviour; behaviour which was not always visible to the referee but which had Scott’s supporters in the crowd when they saw it shouting at the inadequacies of the referee.

      And now you join us in the last but one round of this enthralling contest. Britten, the reigning Champion is clearly flagging, whilst his young Challenger, Scott, looks on the top of his game. You could say, he’s running rings round his older opponent. Britten’s second, Cameron, is looking increasingly anxious and may be tempted to throw in the towel at any time.

      And now Scott throws a heavy Salmond punch which has the Champion reeling. Britten falls to the floor, completely disorientated. He struggles to his feet, and takes the mandatory standing eight count. It looks like curtains for Britten.

      How long will it be before Scott delivers the knockout blow?

    16. Doug Daniel says:

      I’m now imagining Yes Blair skipping along Hope Street on his way to work with a big smile on his face, singing a wee song. I hope this is what actually happens.

    17. James D says:

      Did anyone notice the UK boxing glove in the picture is “subtly” bigger than the Scottish one, just like the weather map. Subconscious attack alert!

    18. galamcennalath says:

      Positive versus negative, moving forward versus stuck in a rut, change versus status quo, hope versus fear. Yes versus No. At its simplest. I know who I think the odds are stacked for and against!

    19. Bill Fraser says:

      I have been thinking about the Stadard Life announcement. The Financial Reporting Council have issued instructions to all companies that they must declare potential business risks including country and currency risks. Lloyds Bank has apparently delayed making a similar statement in its Annual Accounts but may make it in its Half Year Accounts due out just before the referendum.Those of us on who support Yes may be tempted to call this scaremongering but I think that is a mistake. Companies have been forced to make such a statement by the FRC.

      The Standard life statement said nothing about moving all of its operation in the event of independence, they said they might have to move parts of it, that could simply be registration in the rUK. Moving a head office and all of its people is a costly and risky business. Will all the highly trained people move with it? How much would you have to pay them to relocate considering the costs of living in London?

      It is possible to manage funds from anywhere on the planet in this electronically wired society. I suspect that it makes much more sence to leave much of the business where it is, so what we should be attacking is the unchallenged assumption that all of the jobs will relocate.

    20. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I saw somewhere that we’re only talking about 50 jobs anyway and not 5000 so what we are facing is a massive distortion of what Standard Life actually said.
      I have little doubt however that Standard Life were fully aware of the distortion their statement would facilitate

    21. alexicon says:

      Apart from the obvious negativity of the no camp, I noticed this subtle point.

      “The campaign director of Better Together, the pro-union campaign formed by Labour, the LibDems and the Tories, says the referendum is finally coming into focus for voters.”

      Now to give the “Tories” they’re correct name, conservatives, would mean that it would be written (alphabetically) as Conservatives, Labour and LibdDems.

      We couldn’t show the Tories at the head of the no camp’s campaign could we.

    22. chicmac says:

      “Why is the union glove bigger the Saltire? Are they trying subliminals? If so it’s nae working. Like the upbeat Blair Jenkins.”

      I think the difference in glove size is within layout sloppiness – just.

      Fine being upbeat, but the Yes side has a duty of care to inform voters of the genuinely scary consequences of voting No.

      We can do both, the No team only have one, and that’s fictitious.

    23. Tam Jardine says:

      Aye- Blair MacDougall’s ascertain that the dambuster strategy coordinated by project fear is not scaremongering is not accepted by the brain. It is like claiming the grass is not green.

      O/t Mairi Hedderwicks reply on desert island discs when asked her opinion this morning: “of course it (indi) would be a good thing’ fair put a spring in my step this morning, particularily as i’ve been reading more of her canon than any other author lately. Struay says YES!

    24. Alfresco Dent says:

      Hi Stuart, just a quick word to the wise – this new WordPress plug-in (or whatever) is making life really difficult for those of us using Android phones to comment on this site.

    25. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Tam Jardine says:
      O/t Mairi Hedderwicks reply on desert island discs when asked her opinion this morning

      The current TV adaptation of Mairi’s Katie Morag books is superb.
      If you haven’t seen any of the episodes, they are worth a look.
      (You don’t have to be a kid to enjoy them.)

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=katie%20morag

      🙂

    26. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The up / down orange arrows have disappeared now. Before it was just one of them and it didn’t work anyway.

      It is OK on a MacBook and cmd and down key worked but on an iPad it is a pure bollox to scroll down and up manually, now that the post threads are so numerous.

    27. Alba4Eva says:

      Can you delete that last post REV… the link was wrong?

      Here is the other Paolo Nutini find:

    28. You and My Comb says:

      Bill Fraser

      The spectator blog gives an interesting slant on the timing of the Standard Life announcement.

      http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/02/how-osbornes-tactics-drew-standard-life-into-the-independence-debate/

      The other thing to consider is the make up of the board on standard life which reads like a Tory party candidates trip with the additional flavour of someone senior from Control Risk (I would like to find the source of this detail – I know I read it somewhere).

      I would expect to see a constant trickle of businesses making similar announcements until the referendum.

    29. jimsia says:

      The currency scare stories are a non issue and must be refuted. One argument which can be used is the fact that Ireland used the pound linked to sterling for 57 years from its inception as a free state in 1922 until it floated its own pound in 1979.

      This currency arrangement worked well enough for the Irish and the British until Ireland decided to enter the E.R.M.with a view to using the Euro.

      The British government were quite relaxed about Ireland using the pound. What worked for Ireland will work for Scotland.

    30. Paul says:

      I think the glove sizes are the same but the straight line through the butchers apron makes it appear to be bigger or as otherwise known as a optical illusion.

    31. KillieBoab says:

      Listening to the Irvine debate at the moment and am now ASTONISHED at Donohoe answering a question on BBC bias by saying that we should vote YES only if we want to lose said BBC. He then went on to have a go at we cybernats. That must be the new equivalent of calling us bravehearts.

    32. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Hi Stuart, just a quick word to the wise – this new WordPress plug-in (or whatever) is making life really difficult for those of us using Android phones to comment on this site.”

      It was apparently completely impossible before, so even “difficult” is an improvement. The unfortunate fact is that Android is just shit. If you know a better plugin, and this goes for any aspect of the site, I’m all ears.

    33. AnneDon says:

      Blair and the anti-Blair.

    34. jimsie says:

      The currency scare stories must be refuted. One argument which can be used is the fact that Ireland used the pound linked to sterling for 57 years from its inception as a free state in 1922 until it floated its own currency in 1979 with a view to joining the E.R.M.

      The British government were quite relaxed about this arrangement. If it worked well enough for Ireland it can work for Scotland.

    35. heedtracker says:

      ‘For those people in the middle, it’s much more a personal transactional decision, about their own finances and their family’s finances.’ Who is the middle then? Or BetterTogether UKOK goes after those people that have no interest in politics, think voting’s a waste of time, they’re all the same etc

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/intermediate2/modern_studies/government_and_decision_making_in_central_government/voter_turnout/revision/2/

      Voting in Scotland

      But FPTP is not the only reason for low voter turnouts. The Scottish Parliament uses the Additional Member Voting system (AMS). Turnout at the 2011 Scottish Parliament election was just over 50%, some 15% less than the FPTP General Election. Elections to Scottish local authorities use the very proportional Single Transferable Vote (STV). Turnout in the 2007 Scottish local authority elections was just over 52%.

    36. CameronB says:

      One is obviously an enabler who aspires to empower Scots, the other simply a sock-puppet of powerful vested interests, who has no qualms about employing terrorism to scare the Scots into submission.

      Kind on sums up the ‘debate’ nicely.

      terrorism
      [ter-uh-riz-uhm]
      noun

      1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

      2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

      3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

    37. Taranaich says:

      Perhaps I’m reading too much into it, but I find something a bit strange about the paper’s emphasis on Jenkins “losing control” of the Yes movement:

      Blair Jenkins is proud of no longer being in control of the Yes campaign… he says it has mushroomed to such an extent it has developed a life of its own.

      Now, on the eve of a spring campaign offensive, things are well past the point where it is possible to track everything Yes Scotland’s volunteer army is getting up to. Ignorance really is bliss in such matters.

      Is it just me, or is the wording of that somewhat sinister, that the Yes movement has gone spiralling out of control, and Jenkins’ happiness somewhat delusional, like (the proverbial, as opposed to historical) Nero watching Rome burn? The talk of positivity & hope could easily be perceived as lunacy & foolishness in comparison to MacDougall’s “coming into focus.”

    38. Tam Jardine says:

      Calgacus MacAndrew

      Agreed – but will we be able to watch Katie Morag after a yes vote? Watch out for the next bouncing bomb in the press the morn. FEAR!

    39. Alba4Eva says:

      On Android phones; when I use my Note 3, I had problems of the green submit button disappearing if the post was too long, but found that if you allow automatic rotate screen and continue the post in landscape as opposed to portrait, then this solves the issue. Might be of help, might not.

    40. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Paul says:
      I think the glove sizes are the same but the straight line through the butchers apron makes it appear to be bigger or as otherwise known as a optical illusion.

      I was beginning to wonder whether the U-KOK one contained a “big clunking fist”.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6147766.stm

      Or maybe GB just does pensioner-scaring these days.

    41. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Tam Jardine says:
      Calgacus MacAndrew
      Agreed – but will we be able to watch Katie Morag after a yes vote? Watch out for the next bouncing bomb in the press the morn. FEAR!

      Luckily Katie Morag is a BBC Caesar! production, and is therefore an “Asset” that Scotland holds (like our oil and nuclear weapons) at the point of commencement of negotiations.

      Given the state of the rest of the BBC Scotland rubbish/bias output, Katie Morag and BBC Caesar! might be all we have to watch for a while.
      And none the worse for that.

      🙂

    42. scopa says:

      If the Osborne’s announcement was planned “more than six months ago” then why was Balls trying to get the FM to talk to him about it in January this year (see 108 days later)?

      Something tells me that McDougall is rewriting history and that the poll results are actually more on our side than they’re letting on. Panic’s creeping into Project Fear.

    43. liz says:

      Just caught an article on radio 4 – other half likes it – about the Welsh NHS getting compared unfavourably to the English NHS over waiting times and the Welsh Assembly getting the blame.

      Sound familiar??

      Labour Anne Clywd was raising the concern re the NHS.

      I remember her coming over as a bleeding heart on the vote to invade Iraq but eventually voted Yes because Tony had ‘assured her’ etc etc.

      Typical labour apparatchik.

      Naturally a spokesperson for the Welsh NHS disputes this information.

    44. jingly jangly says:

      Adrian B/Iain Bell

      Some time ago at the hight of the financial “crisis” there was a Channel four program from Rory Bremner and co investigating the actual position of UK debt.

      They explained that the UK used an accounting system called “European Union” accounting system whilst paradoxically the EC used the UN (I think was a long time ago) accounting system.

      Taranaich I thought the idea was that the YES campaign would be grass routes, if its grass routes it cant be controlled from above, (Unless by the evil Rev) otherwise its not a grass routes campaign. Jenkins and co will get on with the strategy we will get on with the ground war…

      By using the European Union accounting system the UK was able to keep off the balance books various liabilities like the PFI debt, Public sector pension liabilities, Bank Bailouts and I think QE monies as well in which they owe the Bank of England over 350 billion, by the way the BOE don’t charge interest on this 350 billion but Scotland gets charged interest on its share of the 350 billion debt to the BOE , one of the reasons our 4.5 billion per annum share of the UK National debt is higher than it should be by about 1 billion p.a.

      At the time of the Channel four program around 4/5 years ago they estimated they estimated the UK total debt at around 4.5 Trillion pounds.

      Don’t know where Adrian B gets the 6 Trillion from but would be interested as its obviously increased substantially in the last 4/5 years.

    45. jingly jangly says:

      Don’t know what happened on last post, the last paragraph ended up being the second one…

    46. John Gibson says:

      Let’s not get too fussed about the apparent sizes of the gloves in the picture (to me the Saltire one looks bigger,although on measuring is a tiny tad smaller). I’d say it would make a casual visitor to this site think we were conspiracy nuts – which we’re not.

      The BBC weather map on the other hand is an obvious psychological ploy which is so childishly obvious that I suspect it’s having the opposite effect to the one intended.

    47. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @scopa says:
      Panic’s creeping into Project Fear.

      See also this DR article of today about the London elite wakening up to the fact that independence is now very much on the cards:-

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-now-becoming-palpable-3198563

    48. X_Sticks says:

      @jingly Jangly

      posted this reply on the currency thread – just in case you missed it:

      Was at Nat central in W Aberdeenshire today with Rab C plotting the downfall of the union. Good day. The downfall’s on the 19th September – just so you know. I passed on your message about contributing to Wings. He just laughed. 😉

    49. bunter says:

      Just thinking, it could be a good thing to do a weekly round up of pro indy and damaging NO things that have been omitted or ignored by our media, especially our favourite, the BBC. Could be titled ” This weeks stories the media tried to bury” or something like that.

      Wee things that folk don’t get to here about, like the FT report a few weeks ago, Stndard & Poors assessment, The EU big hitters who savaged Barroso, the real reason behind rejection of currency union etc.

    50. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      One last Katie Morag thought …

      Maybe Wings could spend some of the recently-raised funds on paying BBC Caesar! to make a Katie Morag Referendum Special.

      It would start with Katie having to deal with the conflict involved in having a Grannie YES and a Grannie NO.

      It would end happily after Katie gets out her ayePad and shows Granny NO Wings Over Scotland, turning her into another Granny YES.

      😉

    51. liz says:

      Is it just me or is there a big slow down on people posting comments?

    52. chicmac says:

      @Bugger(the panda)

      “It is OK on a MacBook and cmd and down key worked but on an iPad it is a pure bollox to scroll down and up manually, now that the post threads are so numerous.”

      The work around I use on my tablets is to put “Wings O” in the find on page search window.

      It then picks up on the “Wings Over Scotland” text at top and bottom of the screen. Sometimes, some assiduous commenter will have used it but most folk most of the time use “WOS” or just “Wings”.

    53. BuckieBraes says:

      I see what people are saying about the Sunday Herald’s relative degree of editorial balance; and why we should therefore support the paper by buying it.

      Sorry, but as far as I’m concerned the print media have nailed their colours to the mast in the independence debate for all to see. The Sunday Herald being the best of a bad bunch isn’t good enough. I have stopped buying newspapers altogether, and have no intention of resuming any time soon.

      With possibly a million people in Scotland now actively supporting the independence campaign one way and another, it is disgraceful that not one mainstream title has ‘grown a pair’ and come out in support of Yes.

      Well, if they are not prepared to support us, I’m not prepared to support them.

    54. annanurrahing says:

      Can somebody talk me through the online sunday herald thing? I buy the print version when I’m home and would like to buy it when I’m away but don’t buy the online version because the herald online subscription includes the poisonous weekday version.

    55. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @liz says:
      Is it just me or is there a big slow down on people posting comments?

      Everybody’s away catching-up on all the Katie Morag episodes on the ayePlayer.
      I should never have mentioned it earlier …

    56. Marcia says:

      Liz

      I think you will find that a lot of us were listening to the recorded Independence debate from Irvine.

      I wish Tommy Sheridan would get a voice coach. You can have passion without shouting. He could learn from his mother who spoke with passion and in a lower tone. What a passionate crowd. I presume Donohue decided when he saw the size of the crowd and felt their passion he refused the filming of the debate.

    57. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @BuckieBraes says:
      I see what people are saying about the Sunday Herald’s relative degree of editorial balance; and why we should therefore support the paper by buying it.
      …. I have stopped buying newspapers altogether, and have no intention of resuming any time soon.

      I agree that the best policy is not to spend any money at all on any of the national newspapers.

      The Herald / Sunday Herald scenario reminds me of the conversation in Braveheart between The Bruce and his father, where the father says to The Bruce:

      “We will embrace this rebellion. Support it from our lands in the north. I will gain English favor by condemning it, and ordering it opposed from our lands in the south.”

    58. CameronB says:

      John Gibson said
      2 March, 2014 at 1:57 pm

      The BBC weather map on the other hand is an obvious psychological ploy which is so childishly obvious that I suspect it’s having the opposite effect to the one intended.

      I think it is aimed at children who do not have the rational and critical skills of adults. After twenty years of BBC conditioning, the child has now grown into an adult who ‘knows’ that Scotland is small.

      I wee detail that needs fixing, but clear evidence IMO, of how the BBC attempts to shape our perspective in order to instill a feeling of Scots inferiority.

      State sponsored terrorism?

    59. liz says:

      @Marcia – where is the recording?

    60. chicmac says:

      @Paul
      “I think the glove sizes are the same but the straight line through the butchers apron makes it appear to be bigger or as otherwise known as a optical illusion.”

      I measured it, yes I am that sad. But as I had the paper and a ruler to hand on my desk…

      Anway Saltire 13.3cm long, Union Jack 14cm, approx 5% difference. Within layout sloppiness error.

    61. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Having trouble keeping up…did the fundraiser get any MSM coverage yesterday or today?

    62. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Having trouble keeping up…did the fundraiser get any MSM coverage yesterday or today?”

      It did not.

    63. Marcia says:

      Liz

      It was broadcast from noon until 2 by a local community station. I think the Rev has recorded it

    64. bookie from hell says:

      devolution

      I don’t want new powers,i want old powers like,United States Declaration of Independence , 1776

    65. heedtracker says:

      All of sudden vote No Guardian weeps for the homeless of Glasgow or another day another pitch at Bliar McDougall’s “the middle” voter.” Save the orphans, wont somebody think of the orphans and vote no? Kevin McKenna, ex ed of the open sewer that is the Scottish Daily Mail.

      No wonder Sheridan shouts. Hero! http://archive.is/oJDAB

    66. Doug Daniel says:

      Anyone having problems posting on an Androud phone because of the Submit button disappearing – it doesn’t happen if you use Firefox instead of Chrome or the stock browser. Download that and have a try!

    67. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Buckie Braes at 2.34

      The Sunday Herald nailed its colours to our mast several years ago and has stuck to it. It is not uncritical however, nor should it be.

      Buy the Sunday Herald (under the present editor)

    68. muttley79 says:

      O/T

      Loads and loads of photos from Scottish politics on this site (saw it from NC’s Twitter).

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/sets/

    69. muttley79 says:

      Scaremongering 1997 style:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/5730217584/in/set-

      72157629201545575/http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/5729667203/in/set-72157629201545575

    70. I G says:

      Sunday Times has a range of articles peppered throughout it today. Broadly pro-independence. There is a half page by Domninic Lawson that starts by referring to “Project Fear” then goes on to quote it liberally – here we go, I thought. However, it then is largely critical of the fear-mongering.

      Admittedly, it’s in the context of his expectations of fear-mongering by EU and Business when it’s time for UK or rUK EU referendum. I don’t agree with him on that but it’s encouraging to see the recognition that Project Fear is what it is.

    71. Brian Powell says:

      It was interesting listening to the Irvine debate from Friday.
      One question was the GMB rep talking about being in CND and getting rid of Trident. I’ve heard him before saying if you want to get rid of nuclear weapons join CND.

      Labour have also said the want nuclear disarmament, but we can’t just get rid of it in Scotland.

      It would have been interesting to hear from the Labour MP and the GMB rep how they thought nuclear disarming would proceed as Labour has recently fully endorsed nuclear weapons(Trident) going forward for at least the next 30 years.

    72. Taranaich says:

      @jingly jangly: Taranaich I thought the idea was that the YES campaign would be grass routes, if its grass routes it cant be controlled from above, (Unless by the evil Rev) otherwise its not a grass routes campaign. Jenkins and co will get on with the strategy we will get on with the ground war…

      That is the idea, I just think that the emphasis in the piece was on the “lack of control” as opposed to “controlled by the people.” Again, I might be sensitive.

      @Calgacus MacAndrews: Maybe Wings could spend some of the recently-raised funds on paying BBC Caesar! to make a Katie Morag Referendum Special.

      It would start with Katie having to deal with the conflict involved in having a Grannie YES and a Grannie NO.

      It would end happily after Katie gets out her ayePad and shows Granny NO Wings Over Scotland, turning her into another Granny YES.

      I approve and endorse this mightily.

    73. John Gibson says:

      CameronB said “I think it is aimed at children who do not have the rational and critical skills of adults. After twenty years of BBC conditioning, the child has now grown into an adult who ‘knows’ that Scotland is small.”

      Hadn’t thought of it that way, and you may be right. However, that will maybe backfire too – I was born and schooled in the days when atlases, globes and the like still showed ‘The Empire’ as it still was, and often those countries which had recently got their independence post war, in a dark pink. (I remember reading somewhere that they used to make the British Isles look bigger than they actually are?).

      Got all the guff about Britain winning the war – more or less on it’s own was the implication. When I grew up and learned better, the end result of that kind of ‘conditioning’ was that I formed the opinion that the British state was founded on bullshit and bluster – it left me very distrustful of them. Not what they intended!

    74. Thepnr says:

      Tick Tick Tick………..

      200 Days to go, don’t waste a single one of them.

    75. scottish_skier says:

      “I think it is aimed at children who do not have the rational and critical skills of adults.”

      0-17 year olds are 71% ‘Scottish only’; the most Scottish / least British of any generation.

      Generation devo.

    76. heraldnomore says:

      I liked Tom Gordon’s sum up at the end No Blair’s piece. In response to claims of victory ‘ Either he’s in possession of secret knowledge or a very good actor.

      And on lack of media coverage, noted that Ken MacD was absent from Headlines this morning, so no online review slot

    77. James Kay says:

      @chicmac

      I may be even sadder. Not having the paper to hand, I printed the photograph and carefully cut out each glove.

      When I overlaid them, there were quite a number of differences, and each overlapped the other in several places. I think that the Saltire was actually slightly larger in total area.

      If I had been preparing the graphic, I would have taken a single image and formed an identically-sized opposite hand by flipping a copy around its vertical axis; then I would have applied the flags. The artist started, it seems, with two similar photos of a left and a right hand. Inevitably there were differences in measurements, but I think a reasonable effort was taken to make the sizes similar.

    78. Vronsky says:

      A team of scientists decide to find out how much shit a pig can contain, so they stick a plug in its bum. The pig survives a long time, albeit swelling up a bit. Eventually and for humane reasons, the scientists decide that the cork should be removed. Given the obvious risks, they train a monkey to do this.

      One unlucky scientist draws the short straw and has to stay in the lab to observe the results. There is a huge explosion and when the other scientists return to the lab they find their colleague covered in pig shit but giggling uncontrollably. “You should have seen the monkey trying to get the cork back in” he explains.

      Brian Donohoe is that monkey.

    79. Alfresco Dent says:

      Fair enough Stuart, I know naught of such things. I shall struggle on.

    80. Morag says:

      In June of 2012 I was at a sort of concert/ceilidh thing put on for Aonghas MacNeacail’s 70th birthday. He made a wee speech. In it he touched obliquely on the referendum, then more than two years in the future. He said something I immediately made my sig line on another forum.

      “How we will vote will depend on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear.”

      I realised he had put his finger on it even then, but I never realised quite how blatant and how divisive the issue would become. And Yes Scotland deliberately looking for premises in Hope Street too.



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