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The land of mystery

Posted on July 16, 2020 by

The BBC website is playing it rather enigmatic this morning.

Does anyone know the name of the place it doesn’t want to say for some reason?

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282 to “The land of mystery”

  1. Ruglonian says:

    Here we go – this distortion will be the new norm (watching the absolute mess of a piece on Newsnight last night confirmed that) – this situation is being portrayed as two completely different viewpoints to a situation that’s too difficult for ‘us’ all to understand.

    The BBC are masters of their craft!

  2. Beaker says:

    I think it refers to the “back of a fag packet”, or more likely someone failed at cut and paste.

  3. Jim Thomson says:


  4. Andrew Scott says:

    As if we didn’t already know, “elsewhere in the UK” suggests it means “anywhere but here, namely England”. That’s the only logical conclusion is it not?

  5. Sandra says:

    Is it Dom’s Republic of Brexitland?

  6. Bob Mack says:

    Channel Islands?

  7. mike cassidy says:

    Barnard Castle

  8. Paul D says:

    I noticed that too! They must have spent quite a while constructing that article. They talk about powers “regulated at [the] EU” to disguise that they were already devolved.

    What they ignore is that EU regulations were the minimum that had to be enforced and that subject to these EU minimums being applied, we could do as we pleased. Now though, we will have to apply the maximum of some unmentioned other country.

  9. Bob Mack says:

    Try again.

    Albion ?

    The land South of Hadrians wall.?

    The land of hope and glory?


    No. Too hard.

  10. John H. says:

    Does this mean the return of fracking ?

  11. Heaver says:


  12. I’ve worked it out. It’s England.

  13. Neil Mackenzie says:

    I’m surprised they even added the word “elsewhere”.

  14. Sensibledave says:

    …. I think they mean the Parliament of the United Kingdom … which is represented by MPs from constituencies across the UK.

  15. Alibi says:

    How about we just tell Westminster to go fuck themselves? I will happily buy a pint or theee for the first SNP to take a red card for the team by standing up in the UK ans saying “Fuck off, Boris”. Mind you it will probably just be Blackford with his “Scotland will not accept…” mantra.

  16. FiferJP says:


  17. shiregirl says:

    Somewhere inbetween Sheol and Abaddon? I hear it’s where the swivel-eyed, undead bide.

  18. Effijy says:

    Sorry! You are all wrong – Dominic Cumming’s Kitchen.

    Do we know the names and the number of people at the BBC
    who work on distorting the news to suit Westminster’s agenda?

    I recall when the Rev went to visit the BBC to listen to their pleas of not being biased.
    Perhaps the Rev could ask them if they need any help in identifying the mystery location?

    Unanswerable, unintelligible and unbelievable BBC.

  19. Effijy says:

    Idiotic Dave

    Yes it just like telling Scotland they must call tails on a 2 headed coin.

    Wonder if Scotland will do well with England’s idea of democracy?

  20. Matt Seattle says:

    We can indeed “recognise” the standards of “the country which dare not speak its name”.
    We can recognise them as unacceptable in Scotland.

  21. FlakBlag says:

    This is hardly damming. As written it implies that for instance Scottish standards would have to be recognized by Wales. If this is the case then the writing is accurate. I agree that the omission of the words “england” or “westminster” is conspicuous, but england doesn’t have a devolved government, so that can also be plausibly explained. It may well be the case that this is underhand writing on the part of the BBC, but your post doesn’t succeed in making that case.

    I’ve not read the whole BBC article. I am operating on the premise that if everyone ignores the BBC it will cease to be. The world would be a better place with one less vile propaganda mill in the service of the forces of evil.

  22. Stuart MacKay says:

    The BBC reaffirmed that there is a border. That was rather careless of them.

    There was the line: Business Secretary Alok Sharma said the plans were required to ensure trade between parts of the UK is not “seriously impacted” after the Brexit transition ends.

    Anyone got any idea what that means? It can’t just be chlorinated chicken?

  23. John Alexander Ferguson says:

    South of the border down englander way and so on.

  24. Muscleguy says:

    Ultima Thule, obviously.

    Beyond the Pale, unlikely.

    Rockall, but only if we exile Johnson to it.

  25. desimond says:

    “We don’t need the KGB in Britain as we have the BBC” – Ken Loach quoting Tony Benn.

    Cant wait for the shock revelation on Marr or BBC Newsnight from a smirking Tory like Gove, Mogg or Boris highlighting that hidden in the small print is the actual legal line that says “Scotland…Youre my wife now!”

  26. Beaker says:

    Jibrovia (apologies to Billy Connolly)

  27. Johnny says:

    And, of course, they will present it as if it’s some grey politics sludge argument.

    It’s only about what you put in your mouth; no biggy!

  28. Bob Mack says:

    Freedonia? Nah, that’s Groucho Marx.

  29. Sharny Dubs says:

    We really are in a totalitarian state when you have to understand what is not written.

    Heads I win, tails you loose.


  30. Sharny Dubs says:

    Officer two Swiss soldiers stole our Russian watches!

    Don’t you mean two Russian soldiers stole our Swiss watches.

    You said that not me!!

  31. ScottieDog says:


  32. Johnny says:

    Any SNP person asked about this should be saying ‘if they want the standards to be the same throughout the UK, they should just agree with ours. It’s not us bothered that they should be the same’.

    I think as well that, by not naming England specifically, the article might be trying to pretend that, say, Wales might sometimes draw up standards and we would all have to follow them, i.e. ‘they were drawn up elsewhere in the UK’.

    But of course the answer to ‘ok, so how often will it be reciprocal and Wales/NI/Scotland might draw up a standard and England adapts to adhere to that?’ is ‘never!’.

  33. Bob Mack says:

    Olympus_____ Land of the Gods. So they believe!!

  34. ahundredthidiot says:

    If I was English, I think I would be pretty pissed off about this.

    No wonder the licence fee revolt is picking up a head of steam down south – the good folks down there have just about had enough as well.

    It’s good to have things in common with our best and dearest neighbour! (without living under the same roof, of course)

  35. Capella says:


  36. ahundredthidiot says:

    Can’t wait to hear them cry Jersey and Isle of Man as their defence.

    oh, wait a minute……

  37. Confused says:

    ex regio

  38. Bob Mack says:

    Rule Brittania? Ie, One rule for us and another for you.

  39. Muscleguy says:

    The power grap where you are, is not a power grab where we are.
    The power grab where you are is us grabbing power from you.
    We may say the powers we grab from where you are temporary,
    But we may like them and keep them, obviously.

    The power grab where we are looks entirely sensible (if we don’t think of you)
    Though the power grap where you are may be a cause celebré.
    The powers that be where you are will huff and puff and threaten this and that.
    But the powers here will of course as is natural simply override the powers where you are.

  40. I don’t know why you,are always quoting the BBC fake news you are not living in a free country so you must accept it and do as you are told and I am sorry to say that’s the truth not fake

  41. defo says:

    Air strip one?

  42. Gary45% says:

    Nice one Stu,
    You can hear the cry of “Get back in your box Sweaties”.
    Sadly not just coming from Johnson and Co, but also the so called supporters of SIU.(Everyone of them spineless)
    Not to belittle the situation, but just look at the “Empires” destruction of Palestine, that is what is coming to Scotland.
    Any condemnation of England will be met with Anti-Whatever, we have it in our own hands to start the fightback.
    How we do it? I don’t have the answers.

  43. John Moss says:

    Is ‘Elsewhere’ a place?

  44. David Rodgers says:

    The oft used term is ‘down south’ amongst unionists of all stripes but maybe they couldn’t use it in this instance with Wales and NI being involved.

  45. Polly says:

    Yes, England, the country that dare not speak its name. If it did speak in its own name then it would be all too clear to everyone that we appendages joined on to England are indeed colonies.

  46. Capella says:

    @ liz – OK I’ll take the bait!
    One comment – don’t listen to Tom Gordon, ever. He hates Nicola Sturgeon and he hates independence. He is paid to pervert the course of justice. Ignore.

  47. Willie says:

    Rev Stu,

    I’ve had to think very hard about where else in the UK regulations could be drawn up if they weren’t drawn up in Scotland, NI or Wales.

    And you know what, I can’t guess where that would be. No Sir, just can’t think at all.

    Good old BBC telling it like it is.

  48. John Brown says:

    The land of mystery is ‘South Britain’.

    It is also the land of incompetence, corruption and xenophobia.

    If I get to choose my prize for getting the correct answer I claim independence for Scotland. I am willing to share my prize with everyone. ?

  49. robbo says:

    liz says:
    16 July, 2020 at 1:40 pm
    Well, any comments?


  50. CameronB Brodie says:

    Such diligence to tradition will please some political outlooks, mostly those of a reactionary bent. That’s the BBC working hand-in-glove with right-wing, (white), populist, English/British nationalism, that is.

    The first rule of avoiding legal responsibility, AVOID IDENTIFICATION.

  51. schrodingers cat says:

    area 51 via the alien shape shifting “nicola ate my hamster” trolls on wings 🙂

  52. Republicofscotland says:

    If Northern Ireland can remain bound to he EU’s regulatory frameworks, then I’m pretty sure Scotland can too, especially in devolved areas, as powers return from the EU, and Westminster intends to grab them even if they overlap within already devolved areas.

    Boris Johnson has been quick to announce a £700 million pounds package to help cut through the red tape that will hinder trade between the UK and the EU. Scotland wants to keeps is higher EU regulations on foods, agriculture,animal welfare etc, I’m sure the PM could find more cash to allow this and ease the flow of trade in the UK’s domestic market between the four countries.

    Scotland has no say whatsoever in International trade deals, they’re reserved to Westminster, this leaves not just Scotland but the other devolved nations at the mercy of whatever kind of deal the British government sees fit to foist upon us and them.

    The UK government wants to create enforceable legal protections for the internal market, with a white paper expected in the coming weeks and legislation in the Autumn. The plan seems to be create laws to strike down any other laws from the devolved nations that might threaten the UK’s internal market.

    In other words Westminster will have the powers to wipe out democratic devolved nations laws, under the guise of protecting the internal market. If Westminster is allowed to get away with this, it would diminish Holyrood’s powers greatly.

    All MSP’s not just the Scottish government must fight this tooth and nail, the consequences of losing this one are profound.

  53. schrodingers cat says:

    indy support at 54%

    will todays grab at scottish devolution make a difference?

    i’d like to think so

  54. Merkin Scot says:

    Elsewhere in the UK?.
    Pollok Free State?
    Damn, I’ll need to look out my passport.

  55. callmedave says:

    Confused says:
    16 July, 2020 at 1:14 pm
    ex regio

    Catching up but you beat me to it there. 🙂

    WM Gov Health Sec to make an important statement on Corona Virus
    at 5pm says big Auntie BBC news.

  56. Capella says:

    OT but maybe not – The Daily Maverick say British intelligence secretly campaigns in elections. Shock.

    The stories — which quote former or current members of the army, navy and special forces, as well as MI5, MI6 and an ex-senior civil servant — have averaged one every six weeks since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party in September 2015. There have, however, been significant spikes in frequency during the 2017 and 2019 general election campaigns.

    There is a strong suggestion that, for some stories, intelligence officials have themselves provided secret documents to journalists as part of what appears to be a campaign.

    Every story has been picked up across national print media, often setting the news agenda and chiming with statements from Conservative government ministers. Nearly every story appeared in four papers — The Daily Telegraph, The Times, the Daily Mail, or The Sun.

    Our research also found 440 articles in the UK press since September 2015 specifically mentioning Corbyn as a “threat to national security”.

  57. schrodingers cat says:

    one important point

    when i campaign for tactical voting in the 2016 holyrood election, the main objection was that in the south region, the snp would need list votes. this point was made ad nausium to such an extent that i started to talk about only mid fife and scotland region to avoid such sweeping put downs (mainly by stu and wingers i might add)

    in the end, i had a modicum of success in as much as the greens won the 7th list seat in the region(fact, had all those who voted green on the list voted snp, the unionists would have won all 7 seats)

    to that end, you should not talk about how scots should vote but how folk in your region should vote, whatever indy list party in your region has the best chance of winning. you will avoid the same accusations and the necessity of repeating yourselves ad nausium

    regions are

    mid scot and fife
    highlands and islands

  58. Alec Lomax says:


  59. CameronB Brodie says:

    The full force of the British state was mobilised to empower xenophobic imperialism. Even the Treasury appears to have been in on it, as Brexit got Green Book approval without costed plans. Democracy is a fading memory in Brexitania, long live English Torydum.

    Post-Brexit Guide: Where are we now – and how did we get here?
    ….The vote revealed strains between the UK’s individual countries: England (53%) and Wales (52.5%) voted to leave the EU, whereas Scotland and Northern Ireland voted by 62% and 56% respectively to remain. Other divisions have also been exposed: between metropolitan areas and small towns for example, and different age groups and social classes.

    The referendum’s aftermath plunged the UK into its worst political and constitutional crisis since the Second World War. Brexit day was repeatedly delayed amid deadlock in the British parliament over the divorce terms….

  60. schrodingers cat says:


    unusual name

    my father worked with a guy called lomax in the dept of ag and fish in the early 60’s

    turned out he was the railway man.

    any relation?

  61. Roberto says:


    The only Trolls on Wings are you Crap-Ella and the rest of your SNP Pervs.

  62. jfngw says:


    Not only BI, I’m hearing there are Russian actors involved in the last election. Now I’m not sure if these actors who are Russians or actors who play Russians as the later could see Sean Connery in some trouble.

  63. schrodingers cat says:

    yer like shite on ma shoe, fuck off


    is it now the case that any snp supporter who posts on your blog is open to abuse from yoon trolls who are allowed to call them perverts?

  64. winifred mccartney says:

    The Tory Baroness Varssy was on Peston last night and when asked why Scotland was doing so well could not even say the word Scotland and spoke of ‘lots of places in the world’. Do you think the instruction has gone out to BBC from Tories that there is no border and there is no place called Scotland. That is what it seems like.

  65. Liz g says:

    Shrodingers Cat @ 3.31
    Use the contact option if he’s bothering ye sometimes they all finish as up background noise to most of us,but you don’t need to put up with it!
    I’ll do it if ye want…just say 🙂

  66. Roberto says:


    He’s hittin me…


  67. Roberto says:

    The only “Yoons” on here are those who support a leader who doesn’t want anything to do with Scottish Independence.

  68. Roberto says:

    It’s you SNP members who support a leader who wants to allow men to enter women’s safe places,,,,,not me.

  69. Gary45% says:

    There’s an awful lot of “white noise” going on.

  70. CameronB Brodie says:

    Otherness and exclusion can be understood through the lens of “vulnerability”. As this is Scotland’s constitutional lived experience, such a perspective it might be helpful.

    Full text.

    Lodz Papers in Pragmatics | Volume 14: Issue 1
    Narrating hostility, challenging hostile narratives

  71. schrodingers cat says:

    @ liz g

    you shouldnt need to ask

  72. CameronB Brodie says:


    Othering others: Right-wing populism in UK
    media discourse on “new” immigration

  73. Armitage Shanks says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    16 July, 2020 at 2:22 pm
    If Northern Ireland can remain bound to he EU’s regulatory frameworks, then I’m pretty sure Scotland can too.

    I try avoid GMO foodstuff let alone a rushed EU Genetically Modified Organism experimental vaccine.

    Fill your boots.I’ll pass for now.

  74. callmedave says:

    Inflating the death toll??

    Surely if a person dies and the paperwork is not completed for reasons of legal procedures still to be completed it is delayed. Then once data is completed the death appears in the official statistics the record is then correct as an overall total.

    Anyhoo! the Daily Mail tells us today:

    Two top Oxford University statisticians today claimed the government is inflating the actual daily death toll and said fewer than 40 people are actually succumbing to the illness every day.

    Dr Jason Oke and Professor Carl Heneghan said figures from Public Health England — which are published each day by the Department of Health — were misleading because officials lump historical deaths onto random days — and include fatalities that happened weeks or even months ago.

    It comes as data today suggested Britain’s coronavirus outbreak may be growing following a spike in the number of people with symptoms over the past week. King’s College London ‘s COVID Symptom Tracker app estimates 2,100 people are catching the virus in the community every day — up from 1,400 last week.


    Todays figures:

    N. Ireland…………00……..Total……556…BBC
    UK…………….today……66……..Total….45119..WM Gov

  75. Capella says:

    @ Liz g – you can add my name if you’re contacting. Stu needs a filter for repeat offenders.

  76. CameronB Brodie says:

    Armitage Shanks
    I’m not here to defend the EU, but Scotland will no longer bound under the “precautionary principle”, as we’re being FORCED to leave the EU and Westminster considers itself above international law.

    Governments are expected to respect the principle, which I’m pretty sure is part of international law. At least the EU doesn’t attempt to deny science and avoid its’ moral responsibilities and inter-generational legal obligations.

  77. Gregory Beekman says:

    Does Wings currently have a Twitter account?
    Or has he given up on it as a platform?

  78. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gregory Beekman
    I think the TRAs within the SNP got him banned.

  79. Willie says:

    Meanwhile it’s just been revealed that one of the laugh and a joke Royal Navy’s nuclear submarines came within 50 to 100 metres from colliding with a Sten Superfast ferry in the channel between Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    That would have brought a tear to a glass eye. The RN’s finest drowned at sea with a cargo of nuclear warheads and a live reactor. And whilst many on ferry might have had a chance of surviving it would be a real laugh to hear the Tory balloons trying to explain a catastrophe like that to the world press. Our very own Fukishima. Oh how we could revel in our glorious dead. We’re all proud Brits.

    Suck it up folks, just suck it up. Skye nearly got it, and now they’ve had another go. Just a matter of time really. Suck it up.

  80. Juteman says:

    I think it might be England that wants to keep hold of the country to the north that they bought.

  81. David Innes says:

    The land that time forgot?

  82. Liz g says:

    Capella @ 4.15
    Hey…are you calling me a filter 🙂

  83. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Gary45% at 3:55 pm.

    You typed,
    “There’s an awful lot of “white noise” going on.”

    It could be ‘pink noise’…

  84. Capella says:

    @ Liz g – we sure could do with a filter on here – or even a moderator. new fundraiser coming up 🙂

  85. Sinky says:

    More lies from the Tory press.

    Kate Forbes was proved right as Scotland only got £21m additional new money not £800m claimed by Tories, Ian Murray and Kevin Hague

    As Paul Johnston tweeted, all that extra money announced by govt last week not quite what it seems.

    The “Rooseveltian” additional £5.5bn of capital spending represents an increase of precisely zero this year on Budget plans. Is a reallocation from one set of projects to another
    “But the Scottish Government won’t, as I initially presumed, get extra funding as a result of the Green Homes Grant or the full £40 million it would if all of the money for traineeships and so on were new. Instead, apart from the stamp duty money, it will receive £21 million – the figure quoted by the Scottish Finance Minister – as a result of the combination of the ‘Plan for Jobs’ and the reductions in investment spending elsewhere that the Treasury is now expecting.”

  86. Geoff Anderson says:

    I just watched Pete Wishart give a first class speech in the HofC attacking this. It was probably one of the most amusing yet aggressive speeches I have heard for years.

    I know many on here only have to here his name to launch into an attack. Please try to put that aside and watch the summing up of this proposed Bill.

  87. CameronB Brodie says:

    Getting back to Scotland’s lived experience of constitutional exclusion and vulnerability. Here’s a way of understanding the precariousness of such a state of being.

    Remember, British constitutionalism only supported liberal democracy so long as it remained DIALOGIC, i.e. enabling an exchange of cultural perspectives. Brexit turned the constitution into a MONOLOGUE of English Torydum. So Scottish culture has no future while we remain standing under Westminster’s assumed legal authority, which lacks moral substance.

    Full text.

    Journal of the British Society for Phenomenology
    Volume 49, 2018 – Issue 3: Phenomenology of Vulnerability
    The Ethics of Vulnerability and the Phenomenology of Interdependency

  88. Dan says:

    I reckon it’s Wazzockstan…

    …and if us indy-minded Scots wildcats cannae unify to achieve a common beneficial purpose by quittin’ all this hissin’, spittin’, and a scratchin’ at each other, then it’s probably right that we should be absorbed into said Wazzockstan… 🙁


  89. robbo says:

    Jeez this fucker is really getting on ma tits noo.

    What absolute bullshit. NS wid wipe the flair wae u ya fud and your commenter fae glesga- a tool.

  90. Sinky says:

    On the Power Grab, The Tory government issued an embargoed press release concerning devolved powers two hours before advising the devolved administrations in order to get their propaganda of a “power boost” all over the media before the Scottish government had details of the extent of the power grab.

    We should all remember the 1998 Scotland Act clearly stated all powers not specifically reserved are devolved so the EU competencies newly coming to the UK should be the responsibility of the Scottish government.

    The Scottish Govt has previously decided which projects it should propose for funding by the EU Shared Prosperity Fund to help our economy. Now, it’s the UK govt that will decide which projects can be put forward for funding. There priorities not necessarily our priorities so that’s power grab.


    Russell added: “While ‘mutual recognition’ of standards and ‘regime across all areas of non-discrimination’ may sound innocent, what they disguise is a mechanism that will enable the UK Government to impose lower standards on Scotland – for example in food safety and environmental protections – as it seeks to achieve trade deals with countries outside the EU.

    “The system would require regulatory standards in one part of the UK to be automatically accepted in the others, regardless of whether those standards are lower than those the Scottish Parliament might find acceptable. Our world-class reputation for high-quality food and drink would suffer from these proposals as the UK Government embarks on a race to the bottom – to the huge detriment of people and businesses across Scotland.”

    Can you trust the Tories? Eighteen months after agreeing to the £350 million Tay Cities Deal, the UK Government have still not delivered their share of the funding.

    It’s time some Wingers highlighted these issues and win over soft Nos and undecideds rather than naval gazing.

  91. Effijy says:

    A unionist knuckle dragger I’ve been working on sent
    Me a link to the Daily Redcoat where an SNP Councillor
    Has been accused of a sex crime that goes way back
    Before.he became a councillor.

    A supposed link story they have below it has a banner proclaiming
    That an independence poll is down 4% so No is back in the lead?

    Reading this topical finger on the pulse it’s information goes back to
    Before a general election.

    Wonder which one it was? Maybe Palmerston got in?

    Pathetic dying propaganda pamphlet available on-line.

  92. Capella says:

    @ Geoff Anderson – do you have a time for Pete Wishart speech? It’s possible to make a clip of proceedings from the HoC at the Parlieament tv site. But the start time would be good.

  93. Sensibledave says:


    As someone that has been commenting here for years, and frequently condemned and abused for doing so, I suggest you need to toughen up a bit.

    Those that sink to abuse are the ones (like CBB) that are usually a little feeble of mind.

  94. Dogbiscuit says:


  95. Beaker says:

    The place where the sun don’t shine…

  96. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The only Trolls on Wings are you Crap-Ella and the rest of your SNP Pervs.”

    I thought I’d made my views on this sort of juvenile chat plain last night. Clearly not. Banned.

  97. Liz g says:

    Geoff Anderson @ 5.16
    Do you mean today and roughly what time?
    I’m not seeing it!

  98. Gary45% says:

    This is the sort of thing that Nicola Sturgeon should be highlighting at any media briefing before answering any questions. (Any media chance)
    Before the lock down we had discussions along the lines of a “Led By Donkeys” campaign at the local hub, the cost was pretty steep, so was kind of put on the “back burner”. This type of scandal would be perfect to use the LBD scenario.
    Pretty sure the gutter press will keep this from the Scottish public.
    Yet another theft of revenue destined for Scots, with no help from the SIU spineless.

  99. Dogbiscuit says:

    The usual SNP shills on here trying to stamp out the voice of political opposition. We are in the Twilight Zone of politics.

  100. Mike d says:

    Desimond 12.45pm. Dont you mean….Scotland, you’re my ‘bitch’ now.

  101. callmedave says:


    Just saw Neil Lennon on the bench there…I Hope he never paid for that haircut 🙂

    Nice 0 V Celtic 0 in France after 35mins

    I’m moving on to another game but link below.

  102. Liz g says:

    Thanks Capella 🙂

  103. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see dave is still unable to accept the findings of a scientific world-view. Well, science tends to have the same effect on them as salt does on slugs. 😉

    How does morality work in the brain? A functional and structural perspective of moral behavior

  104. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, them = Tories

  105. jfngw says:


    Young Niddrie Tory is it?

  106. Capella says:

    @ Rev Stu – Thx Stu – appreciated. He will of course return with a new moniker.

  107. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s the problem with lightweights like dave, his chauvinism has great depth, but there’s no substance to his political argument.

    Moral Relativism & Cultural Chauvinism

  108. stuart mctavish says:

    The cunning plan to control trading standards from England could help explain why any powers to be transferred are not expected to have been transferred, if at all, until after the expiry of the transition period.

  109. Robert Louis says:

    So, the blatantly biased, propagandist and anti-Scotland BBC, doesn’t want to say the ‘E’ word. That seems a bit odd, since they have been forcing football and cricket (FFS!), from the ‘E’ place into Scottish homes, since I was a wee boy.

    For the benefit of the liars at BBC propaganda HQ, here’s a wee clue..

    ‘engerland, engerland, engerland. Engerland, engerland, engerla-and…’, and so on.

    Yes, backward, racist old England, doesn’t want its state propaganda channel to let Scots know that what they can or cannot do will be imposed by ENGLAND.

    Why oh why are we still in this cursed, one-sided, undemocratic joke of a ‘union’ with a country that could not give a flying f*** about democracy, human rights, the rule of law, Scotland’s laws and Scotland’s people?

  110. CameronB Brodie says:

    I admit dave’s fun to play with, but I just wish he had a bit more stamina.

    Full text. 🙂

    Brain, Volume 135, Issue 7, July 2012, Pages 2006–2021
    Functional and clinical neuroanatomy of morality

  111. Gregory Beekman says:

    OK CameronB Brodie – I’ll bite:

    Just what the hell is Phenomenology?

    I’m sure it’s something to do with philosophy, as one of my brothers studied that and read Hegel, but these words are just strange-sounding collections of letters to me!!

    very confused 🙁

  112. twathater says:

    Is this another brexshit challenge where OUR SNP SG will moan and whinge about this other place (elsewhere) making rules and regulations that these other wee colonies or shires named Scotland, Wales and NI will just have to adhere to because (elsewhere) has told them to

    Or is it not time for the representatives of the colony of Scotland to just say fuck off (elsewhere) we will decide what regulations are required to safeguard the people of Scotland, and if you try to IMPOSE your regulations on us we will REFUSE to implement them and take ALL steps necessary including legally opposing your instructions whilst holding a referendum to ascertain the people of Scotland’s opinion on your rules

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gregory Beekman
    Thanks for asking. It’s a philosophical approach to understanding human, “lived”, experience.

    Toward a Cultural Phenomenology
    of Personal Identity

  114. CameronB Brodie says:

    Nice one. 😉

  115. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gregory Beekman
    Sorry, I’d assumed Dan was being helpful.

    I think Gregory was inviting me to spread some love. 😉

  116. Effijy says:

    The UK Government and it’s Media are rotten to the core!

    The Tories are almost certain the Russians tried to hack
    Sensitive documents and influence the UK election?

    So they are not certain so they are not able to do anything about it.

    Universities suggest the hack wasn’t successful ?
    So no harm done then.

    The Tories believe the secret UK/US trade deal documents used by Labour
    came from the Russians?
    Are we not paying £Billions to the 77th Brigade and Unit 13 and MI 6 to endure
    UK Gov documents cannot be hacked?
    Is this another Billion payout to a Tory Donner for anti virus software that doesn’t work?

    The big reveal by Labour was the fact the NHS was on the table for sale!
    UK Media immediately move on after that block buster. Nothing to see here.

    The Grayling situation with the Intelligence services is yet another complete farce!

    Running a country, keeping the country healthy, providing PPE where required and
    give clear concise information to the public all find the government completely incompetent.

    Demonstrating that we are not all in it together as equals, signing off billion pound contracts with
    Your Tory Friends, creating thousands of unnecessary Covid deaths and giving conflicting
    information, this government Are World beaters .

  117. Dan says:


    You can’t beat a bit of retro! 😉
    When I first got on t’internet as a newbie someone did that to me and I almost shat myself thinking I’d been hacked. Nearly pulled a muscle as I quickly lunged to pull out the modem line…

  118. Gary45% says:

    If what we have seen is the quality of the “voice of political opposition”.
    You and your “pack” really must try harder, a wee hint, stop the abuse,and be constructive in debate. Punters might actually take notice.

  119. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dan 🙂

  120. TJenny says:

    England, the country that dares not speak its name.

  121. McDuff says:

    So there we have it at last, it is ENGLAND that is handing new powers to rUK which is clear confirmation that the UK is England.

  122. Sinky says:

    @ Gary45%

    Nicola Sturgeon did mention the Power Grab at her briefing.

    BBC n Stv failed to mention the IFS confirmation tat Scotland only got an extra £21m rather than the £80Om claimed by Tory MPs, Ian Murray and Kevin Hague. Kate Forbes was right.

    However BBC had time to do another rehash of the Glasgow QE hospital saga and their Discosure programme is set to do another hatchet job on care homes.

    Balanced reporting my….

  123. Donald Muir says:

    I see the SNP mob went running to teacher.

  124. Donald Muir says:

    Liz g

    What’s the G stand for???

    Oh that’s right,,,”Grass”

    The SNP members trying to cancel out any unwanted critisisum of their Nicola.

    Well it doesn’t work like that.

  125. Donald Muir says:

    Please Sir,

    That bad man is shouting at me.

  126. Colin Alexander says:

    Has colonial administrator Sturgeon and her sidekick hubby gone yet?

    If her Twitter feed ever says: “The SNP and I will fight tooth and nail to assert Scottish sovereignty. We will refuse to bend the knee to the fake sovereignty of UK Parliament over the sovereign people of Scotland.”

    Then I’ll know Sturgeon’s Twitter feed has been hacked.

  127. Julia Gibb says:

    Colin Alexander the champion of Independence ???
    You are more of a Unionist than Ruth Davidson.

  128. Tinto Chiel says:

    Is the answer “Erewhon”?

    @winifred maccartney 3.40: funnily enough, that topic and syndrome came up on O/T this afternoon. Nothing new under the sun there, unfortunately.

  129. Dan says:


    KeyserSózeLand – The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.

    Looks like Stu is in training for an Olympic medal in the whack-a-mole discipline.

  130. Liz g says:

    Dan @ 7.45
    Aye well you can have the Conch if ye want 🙂

  131. MWS says:

    Hmmm. The place they mean is on the tip of my tongue but I just can’t remember what it’s called. So ‘elsewhere in the UK’ but not Scotland, Wales or NI…?
    Nope. I’m stumped. Somewhere not a part of Scotland… Is it Larkhall? ?

  132. AberdeenPict says:

    Julia Gibb says:
    16 July, 2020 at 7:23 pm

    Thanks for linking that Julia.

  133. CameronB Brodie says:

    Your criticism was valid but I just couldn’t be arsed with diplomacy, at the time. Sorry for being sharp.


    Law needs to take account of the lived experience of individuals living in society, in order to be “just”. This means legal analysis and legislative practice needs to take account of a phenomenological perspective of human experience. Unfortunately for Scotland, neither Westminster not Holyrood appear to respect this legal opinion.

    Full text.

    Human Development 2015; 58: 350-364
    Putting the Social into Personal Identity: The Master Narrative as Root Metaphor for Psychological and Developmental Science

  134. Dave Hansell says:


  135. Capella says:

    @ Julia Gibb – thanks for posting Pete Wishart’s speech.He and Ian Blackford stressed the recent polls indicating the settled will of the Scottish people to vote for independence in Europe.

    Of course the Tories scoff. Not many of them stayed for the summing up. No Labour members there. But the point was made. Obviously for the home audience but maybe also for Brussels?

  136. callmedave says:

    @Julia Gibb

    Thanks for the link:

    Same old from the Tory side only a winning Independence vote will wipe the smirks from their faces and deflate that sense of entitlement. 🙁

    Football if you like that sort of thing;
    Result: Nice 1 V Celtic 1

    Ranger game started: Winning 2-0: link below.

  137. Donald Muir says:


    I would hope you will be fair and balanced when pulling people for their language,,, because that SNP mob have some disgusting characters who through out their own style of abuse.

  138. Donald Muir says:


    Liz G-rass

  139. Rm says:

    This power grab must surely be the catalyst when the Scottish government hold their ground, the way lots of people are feeling and thinking about how Scotland is being treated just now, if the Scottish government don’t show some backbone Then we’ll get another Independence Party or a group of independence patriots who will battle for Scotland and eventually end the union, the games just about up for the Scottish government surely they must have more to say on this important power grab affecting Scotland’s future.

  140. Joe says:


    I don’t care much now. Im pretty happy that there is now a growing skeptical critical mass that is beginning to view the SNP with distrust. I honestly don’t care if you have so little self respect that you will continue to vote for a party that has clearly diverged from the interests of the Scottish Independence supporting electorate.

    However – I have been available for discussion for quite some time. Any critique or observation I have made of the SNP, including the fact that I was calling it before WOS, was dismissed as troll behaviour by the SNP faithful.

    So lets not get ahead of yourself. The simple fact is anytime a well considered argument IS made it is dismissed as mere yoonery.

    All I will say is that at this stage those who have not yet considered their support for a party that continually fails to deliver while threatening legislation that would strip some basic rights from people are utterly lacking in critical thinking skills.

    You have continually derided and dismissed those few like me who have had the fortitude to stand continually against the mass delusion that gripped Scottish Independence supporters for too long. We few who think for ourselves and stand by ourselves and risk being wrong, facing the derision, have been shown to be correct in our estimation of the SNP one wasted mandate after another.

    You are clearly a creature of the mob. You have nothing to be uppity about and at this point you do not deserve anything except dismissal yourself.

  141. Davie Oga says:

    Julia Gibb says:
    16 July, 2020 at 7:23 pm

    Wishart is excellent there, but only if you take it in isolation. “Stand up for Scotland”, is nothing but an empty election slogan if the words are not backed up with action.

  142. jfngw says:

    @Donald Muir

    My liege, I am most perturbed that you find the discourse too upsetting for your delicate nature, I am sure those that would suggest you are a scatterer of your seed on the soil could not be more wrong.

    Yours faithfully
    An admirer

  143. Ahundredthidiot says:

    Donald Muir

    Really??…. I can feel it, coming in the air tonight….. hold on… hold on…

  144. CameronB Brodie says:

    Is that Joe trying to suggest his outlook is wholesome? He’s a Brexit supporting right-winger, who holds some rather prejudice opinion and generally punts a populist narrative. Certainly not an opinion to be trusted, IMHO.

  145. Colin Alexander says:

    Julia Gibb

    You can think what you want about me. But facts are facts.

    I notice you never said I’m more of a unionist than Nicola Sturgeon.
    Sturgeon has replaced Jim Murphy as saviour of the Union.

    But she failed to save her beloved Brexit Britain by sacrificing Scotland.

    Gordon (GB) Broon and Mr Murphy will be beelin at being rendered unnecessary to stop indy, for as long as Sturgeon and her Praetorian Guard of wokist colonials are destroying the SNP from the top down.

  146. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    I have wasted more time on you than any other on this site. The result is always the same – you cannot argue your position. You are only good for posting barely relevant links and casting ill-founded judgement on people. A genuinely pitiable character who the less honest denizens of the place encourage and make use of as a mindless disruptor. If I thought you could handle it id converse with you again – but its standing now at 6 or 7 times you have been backed into a corner and simply resorted to insults.

  147. Breeks says:

    Dan says:
    16 July, 2020 at 5:21 pm
    I reckon it’s Wazzockstan…

    …and if us indy-minded Scots wildcats cannae unify to achieve a common beneficial purpose…

    Thing is, I don’t think that will happen. Right now, there might be half a dozen pro Indy List Party’s form, and there will be lots of gnashing of teeth for a while, some Party’s might do well, some not, but if they are true to an Independent Scotland, when need arises, I feel sure they will coalesce effortlessly into a YES Alliance where individual goals are put aside for the good of Scotland.

    Provided these Parties keep talking with each other, and co-ordinate on an operational level, which they will have to do to get the numbers right for List Seats, then I don’t feel worried about it. I think the odds are better than even that the disparate parts will formally come together, either one main List Party, or as a YES based amalgamation of the clans.

    A much bigger danger for Scotland is the dysfunctional leadership of the SNP, and it’s difficult to watch the heart breaking spectacle of good Indy supporters putting their faith in bad hands, though of course, they don’t see it that way. There is no advantage to falling out with each other, and the acrimony and ill-nittered abuse is not helpful to the cause.

    Another thing which isn’t helpful is when people suffering a crushing sense of urgency are pigeon-holed as impatient, when in fact, it’s not impatience, but exasperation, when one opportunity after another has been squandered by the SNP Leadership without a shot being fired, and the number of opportunities left to us is rapidly dwindling.

    I am not impatient. I would readily curb my frustration if I thought there was an effective ‘Grand Strategy’ at play, and specific objective we were working towards, but I just don’t believe there is. It isn’t Sturgeons dithering which angers me. Frankly, given her appalling decisions, her dithering is much less damaging. I wish she’d dithered a lot more before selling Scotland out over Brexit for a start. Force Sturgeon into making a decision, and it’ll be a bad decision because I think her Generalship and strategic thinking is simply disastrous.

    Right now, the talk is of List Parties, and for what it’s worth, I find it all a tedious distraction. Why is it tedious? Because if we’re talking List Parties, we’re talking Holyrood’s de’Hondt system, so that means we’re talking about a Scottish Election, which means there’s a new Scottish Parliament to coalesce, preparations then made to hold an IndyRef, and then campaigning for it and holding it. Jeez. Tick, tock, tick, tock,… I don’t see any mechanism whereby this process is going to be the decisive and fast response that is currently so vital to address the peril facing Scotland in December.

    Ah, but you’ll say, we’ll have a Plebiscite Election on Indy… and maybe we can… but… How do you corner the necessary agreement to describe a parliamentary election as a plebiscite, have the Union parties not boycott the vote, and have Westminster and the International Community recognise the result? How do you do all that, when we’re currently ground to a halt, parked up a Section 30 Cul-de-sac because Nicola just followed the SatNav?

    I think we need a much smaller body than Holyrood, something much lighter on it’s feet, but carrying a mighty punch. We need something like a Constitutional mini-Parliament to be formed, not a political one, but a Scottish Constitutional Chamber or parliament which has the pips to formally dispute the Parliamentary Sovereignty of Westminster and it’s colonial attempts to subjugate the Constitutional Sovereignty of the Scottish people over Brexit.

    UNLESS we have a plan that can salvage Scotland’s Constitution, reverse Scotland’s subjugation, and properly spike the guns of the UK’s Brexit, then I don’t think we have a plan at all. 2021??? Forget it. Too little too late. In this vital regard, Nicola Sturgeon has gone out of her way to prove she is NOT a safe pair of hands when it comes to defending Scotland’s National Constitution and popular sovereignty. We cannot look to the SNP under Sturgeon. Just look at their knee jerk reaction to the List parties. The SNP has gone defensive; the shutters are closed and prickles are out because they want to hide what’s inside.

    Ian Blackford cops a lot of flak for the bluster and waffle he spouts at Westminster which is never then delivered upon. “Scotland will not be removed from Europe against it’s will”, and then we are treated to Sturgeon’s gutless capitulation on 31st January. Sickening. But frankly my friends, while I revile Nicola Sturgeon for it, when it comes to Ian Blackford, I am undecided. Are his words hollow bombast for the galleries? Frankly, I don’t know, and the reason I don’t know is because IF Ian Blackford is not just pulling our chain, the only process which could deliver upon the words Ian Blackford has said so repeatedly, is some kind of Constitutional interdiction which can trump the will of Westminster.

    I honestly cannot judge whether Ian Blackford is talking out his hat, or using the Tory’s arrogance and ridicule for cover, while his own words have been wiring up the main columns for weeks and Westminster is now bedecked with enough cordite and Constitutional dynamite which the Tory Government cannot see, to blow the place to Kingdom Come, and it’s all primed to blow when the time is right and the button is pressed. And when the English are left to sift through the wreckage, they will pick up a copy of Hansard, and find they were told, week after week, that Scotland had a Constitutional Right, and gave fair and adequate warning before it was used.

    So Ian Blackford??? … I don’t know. He’s difficult to read. There’s a wee twinkle in his eye. He’s up to something… maybe.

    Nicola Sturgeon? Nope. Me no trusty. Me no likey. Got a baaaad feeling about her.

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    You appear to think you have a coherent position I respect, but you are hostile to post-modern critical social theory, and hold a number of opinions that give me serious doubt about your outlook and judgement. Either that, or your objective is to punt a narrative of right-wing populism.

    A cosmopolitan approach to
    the explanation of social change:
    social mechanisms, processes, modernity

  149. cynicalHighlander says:

    Is Mastermind back on the telly?

  150. Sinky says:

    From Kevin Pringle in 2017

    In one aspect, the prime minister’s difficulty is caused by the genius of the late Donald Dewar, the Labour secretary of state for Scotland who framed the system of Scottish devolution in 1997. Under Dewar’s formula, the functions to stay under Westminster control are defined in a schedule of reserved powers — everything not listed comes under Holyrood’s remit automatically.

    The UK government has made it clear that there will be no automatic devolution
    Last month, the Scottish government published a list of 111 powers returning from the European Union that relate to the devolution settlement. They include many big-ticket policy items, such as agricultural support, environmental quality, food standards, co-operation in law enforcement and public health.

    Despite the promise of the “leave” campaign, and notwithstanding our structure of self-government, the UK government has made it clear that there will be no automatic devolution. The powers will go to Westminster, at least in the first instance. Some may, and no doubt will, trickle down.

  151. G H Graham says:

    Ask Dani Garavelli.

    She’s good at jigsaw identification.

  152. Donald Muir says:

    Joe 8.30pm

    Excellent post Joe.

    The SNP “Mob” should take note

  153. Donald Muir says:

    Breeks 8.58pm

    Another belter Breeks

    Forensic as ever.

    The SNP “Mob” should take note.

  154. Donald Muir says:

    BBC News,,, Sky News,,, going heavy on Russia Bad

    Who the fuck do england think they are.

    Russia and China couldn’t give two fuvks about little insignificant engerland.

    Delusions of grandeur still afoot south of our border.

  155. robbo says:

    Donald Muir

    You got this one set up b4 you got binned on others,dearie me.

    Tik tok

  156. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think I might need to put some minds at rest, in case folk think I’m simply forcing a political dogma. Though the practice of post-modern critical social theory is political in nature, it does not present a recognizable political position. It is method not ideology.

    It blends social sciences, cognitive and psychological sciences, ethics and philosophy, linguistic sciences, law and stuff, with critical theory. This provides a powerful analytical toolbox for social analysis, so it is a valuable weapon in the fight for social justice.

    I’m pretty sure Joe’s hostility to it is grounded either in ignorance or prejudice, though the latter is often grounded in the former. Alternatively, he simply considers my ethical position to be politically unacceptable, because he’s a right-wing zoomer.


  157. MorvenM says:

    liz says:
    16 July, 2020 at 1:40 pm
    Well, any comments?

    Disgusted beyond words. We’re heading for a no-deal Brexit in less than 6 months and this is the leadership we get.

    Sorry to say I also agree with most of this:

  158. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    C’mon, is our esteemed leader only able to concentrate on one topic at a time?

    Our nation is facing a couple of crises of existence.

    1. Covid 19.

    2. The emasculation of our Scottish Parliament.

    It’s time my party grew a pair.

  159. Still Positive says:

    Brian Doon the toon @ 10.48.

    Totally agree.

  160. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I have banned “Donald Muir” et al’s entire IP range.

    I quite clearly have no problem with people criticising Nicola Sturgeon on here. I have had absolutely enough of the childish abuse of other posters while doing it.

  161. dakk says:

    Donald Manure gone.

  162. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Donald Manure gone.”

    Yeah, way to take the moral high ground on childish abuse there ffs.

  163. dakk says:

    Hope childish abuse of an ex poster won’t attract the hammer.

  164. Sensibledave says:

    Donald Muir 10.12

    … err, the U.K. is the 6th largest economy on the planet … so that makes us an important market for most countries.

    BTW, Russia is 11th!!

    Your “grievance” is clouding your perception of reality I’m afraid. It may suit your political aims to write off the importance or relevance of my country on the world stage … but you are just plain , s and demonstrably, wrong!

  165. Benhope says:

    With the plans in place to open all Scottish schools in August after studying all the expert medical advice, who appears to create problems. Oh yes, Larry Flanagan. The well known labour leader of the EIS trade union.

    This man is guaranteed to oppose any policy of The Scottish Government and has obstructed any changes to the education system for many years at what cost to the education of our young people.

    Is this the real Labour opposition along with COSLA and the Unionist controlled local authorities?

    Perhaps similar to the situation with Craig Murray and the NUJ.

    Ian Murray is demanding a review of the administration of Scottish football. Thought fence sitter McLeish had already done that. Doesn`t he realise that Jim Jeffries is the answer to all questions.

  166. Effijy says:

    Idiot Dave

    We know the UK is wealthy
    It’s Scotland’s resources that put it in 6th place.

  167. dakk says:

    I’ll take that.

  168. CameronB Brodie says:

    What law is it that will support this notional internal UK market? Common law and property rights don’t extend to Scotland, apparently (see Brexit).

  169. schrodingers cat says:

    you still havent answered my question

  170. Effijy says:

    Tomorrow we will see the 14th Million Covid 19 case.

    The weekend will see the 600,000th known Covid death.

    The US numbers are continuing rise daily with 64,000 plus
    Cases add on Friday.

    Boris is trying to convince everyone that everything is safe?

    It all started here with one case but we see over 500 new cases every
    Day so how can it be safe?

    Death, Debt and Destruction the legacy of Westminster.

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. Scotland is still within EU jurisdiction.

    The English Common Law as a Vehicle for the Protection of Uncodified Constitutional Rights

  172. Gregory Beekman says:

    MorvenM says at 10:26

    Just read that Robin McAlpine piece you linked to – wow, I feel so deflated now 🙁

    I want to believe in Sturgeon but I can’t see much happening indyref wise in the next parliament either 🙁

    Feeling sad……..

  173. Gregory Beekman says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Thanks for the link

    Google isn’t the same as getting a particular person’s perspective on it, especially in relation to indy and indyrefs

  174. boris says:

    Michael Gove is the brains behind the bluster of the “pseudo” Tory government of Boris Johnson which will be guided in its policies over the next five years by this strange little man who is much derided by the uninformed but respected by those who are aware of his abilities. Johnson and Gove are joined at the hip. The Laurel and Hardy of British politics.

    Those who are serious about politics should give careful attention to Gove’s address to the right-wing “Legatum Institute”.

    It really is an eye-opener and much of the underlying rhetoric in its content ties in with an as-yet-unannounced flagship policy which will impact severely on Scotland.

  175. call me dave says:

    I hear on big Auntie News that Boris is allocating another £3bn for NHSE to prepare for possible 2nd corona wave and to help reduce the cancelled operations & treatments backlog.

    That means Barnett consequentials for the UK’s three colonies.

  176. defo says:

    Mr Mcalpine looks to have hit the wall MorvenM.
    Scunnered, and desperate for some hope. Not unlike our dear leader.

    The absolute worst of it, against all Nostradamian norms, is the seeing it coming, and knowing/feeling like there’s feck all more we can effectively do.

  177. Beaker says:

    I think “elsewhere in the UK” refers to the Garden Bridge.

    @Benhope says:
    16 July, 2020 at 11:52 pm
    “Doesn`t he realise that Jim Jeffries is the answer to all questions.”

    Naw, try Craig Levein. Absolute tactical genius…

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    As common law protection of the rights of individuals apparently doesn’t extend to Scotland, here is what British constitutionalism is allowing right-wing English nationalism to seperate Scotland from. IMHO, there is sufficient, substantive, law with which to defend Scotland’s legal identity. There isn’t even the will to see it though, apparently.

    (4) Constitutional jurisdiction and fundamental rights

  179. Gregory Beekman says:

    Apologies in advance to everyone else for this post…

    @CameronB Brodie

    I struggled with the first sentence:

    How does our inherited world of meaning relate to our fundamental experience of ourselves as persons?

    Why have the word ‘inherited’ in there?
    What is ‘fundamental’ about an experience?

    After some time thinking about this, I think this sentence is saying:

    Have you been brainwashed by our understanding of reality and do you exist without that brainwashing?

    Well, yes, we’re all brainwashed one way or another through learning but the fact that (for eg) I’ve learned there’s an asteroid belt circling the Sun doesn’t make me less of a person!

    Anyway, what has this got to do with independence? Sorry, can’t recall why you posted it but perhaps you can explain its relevance? (Is it: past experience has made us bitter?)

    P.S. Oh – I did read more than the first sentence, by the way. I got as far as reading the entirety of the first paragraph but the jargon was too advanced for my physics-brainwashed mind, lol!

    P.P.S. For some reason, it made me Google yogic bouncing – the first vid was hilarious, so thanks for that, well cheered me up!

  180. twathater says:

    To all the people celebrating and lauding wishy washies speech I couldn’t even watch it to the end , as far as i’m concerned all pete was doing was warning his good friends from the opposition benches how us jocks were getting annoyed at their denigration , instead of laughing and joking with the morons he should have just kept schtum and let people continue to see the denigration

    I was embarrassed for him it was if he was playing the court jester for their amusement and entertainment but there again he’s the guy that wants to be the speaker so I shouldn’t be surprised

  181. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gregory Beekma
    You might not be pleasing some but I’m glad you asked. Even though I’m very, very rusty. So as best I can remember;

    inherited world = culture

    fundamental experience = emotions and self-image

    Pretty much.

    You need to take account of phenomenology, if you want law and public policy to be compatible with open, pluralistic, government and society. Brexit rejects an authentic phenomenology of British democracy.

    Yes it is rather heavy and light relief is essential. 😉

  182. CameronB Brodie says:

    Xorry ….Beekman

  183. CameronB Brodie says:

    sorry….fundamental experience = sensory perception

  184. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s really not essential for folk to understand this stuff, I’m just proving I’m not spouting mince.

    Phenomenology and the social sciences. (1973) Vol. I, pp. 281-319
    Experiential Phenomenology

  185. CameronB Brodie says:

    Though it would be fantastic if folk could appreciate how phenomenology can reveal the unhealthy nature of legal environment being FORCED on them by British constitutionalism. Possibly Scots law as well, if it tries to deny the significance of the biological differences between the sexes.

    Human Rights Quarterly, Johns Hopkins University Press, Volume 31, Number 1, February 2009
    Hannah Arendt and the Challenge of Modernity: A Phenomenology of Human Rights (review)

  186. Liz g says:

    MorvenM @ 10.26
    An interesting read indeed,but while the Rev has been makin some of the same point’s for a while now and he’s usually credible,so I wouldn’t dismiss it entirely…

    Robin McAlpine as far as I can tell,seems to come from the school of, “Nothing less than a left wing utopia will do”, so, I’d say, read the opinions in it with a healthy dose of scepticism.

    Although if even half of what he says is a quarter true ?
    Then it seem to me we need to become even more engaged in Scottish politics.

    Mainly because, while we are not without the wherewithal to “insist” our independence is realised relatively soon ( that unstoppable demand we’re told would would push Westminster,should then be able to also shove Holyrood ) we need to be vigilant that Scotland isn’t held in check till we’re aligned to a mini me Westminster model before our independence is delivered.

    So , I think what we should take from that article is there’s much work to do and not tell us we’ve little chance … 🙂

  187. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. That page doesn’t open as a pdf, so folk might be interested in the review’s preamble. Or not.

    In Origins of Totalitarianism, she argued that the “rightlessness” of stateless persons functioned as a precondition for totalitarian oppression. She observed that “The Nazis took great pains….

  188. Liz g says:

    Me @ 2.23
    MorverM to be clear…I ment we shouldn’t take from the ARTICLE that we’d little chance,not that you were sayin it 🙂

  189. twathater says:

    @ Liz 2.23am I like your positivity Liz but unfortunately this

    “Mainly because, while we are not without the wherewithal to “insist” our independence is realised relatively soon ( that unstoppable demand we’re told would would push Westminster,should then be able to also shove Holyrood )

    The idea that we could FORCE NS to do something is a fantasy , according to twatter and other blogs many members???, including Capella have attempted to get GRA and HCB shelved until after the HR elections but their advice and complaints have been ignored

    DITTO with many , many independence supporters ,members and bloggers insisting that it is futile to suggest that bozo will agree to a sect30 agreement when the polls are so high for indy , YET NS carries on regardless ignoring all pleas when even some come from her most ardent admirers

    I have no problem with a plebicite HR election for indy but the SNP hierarchy are immovable on the idea , and if they were REALLY interested in PROTECTING Scotland from the further ravages about to hit Scotland and its people they would dissolve HR and go for an early indy plebicite election

    I’m afraid the only way to SHOVE HOLYROOD is for SNP members to remove NS or to NOT vote SNP in the next election , I know what the implications of the latter would be

    I have said it before it is MADNESS that we have 1 woman determining the future of our nation and country

  190. Dave Hansell says:

    Off topic concerning a different land of mystery:

    “A problem can be seen straight away here of course, because an accurate means of assessing people, based on a quality seen only on the inside of their heads, does not immediately spring to mind.”

    “What’s the difference again, between a ‘cis man’ and a ‘transwoman’?

    His say so.”

  191. Sensibledave says:

    Effijy 11:56 pm

    You wrote “We know the UK is wealthy“

    “We” may … but Donald apparently didn’t!

    It’s good that you agree with me on the importance and relevance of the U.K. economy.

  192. stuart mctavish says:

    @ Liz G
    One concern might be the lack of relief in certain quarters if ever it was revealed to have been bad flu and BS all along – so hopefully she has not been duped into her position.

    Another might be if the distraction arising has allowed England to allocate itself (at least?) 111 responsibilities, which legally returned to Holyrood at 11pm on 1 January, in advance of any public negotiation to end the UK.

  193. Sensibledave says:

    Cbb 1.15

    You wrote “ Brexit rejects an authentic phenomenology of British democracy.”

    Given that Brexit is the result of a democratic, free and fair referendum by the “British” people, I’m inclined to believe you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.

  194. Breeks says:

    MorvenM says:
    16 July, 2020 at 10:26 pm
    Sorry to say I also agree with most of this:

    These words resonate with me too, and a lot louder than the playground bravado of Pete Wishart bumping his gums in Westminster.

    So much now depends on Alex Salmond’s capacity to take these charlatans down.

    I’m minded of the line which the painfully honest David Balfour speaks in the R.L. Stevenson’s Kidnapped, ”I cannot see beyond, my lord. It’s the way I am made. If the country has to fall, it has to fall. And I pray to God, if this is wilful blindness, that He may enlighten me before too late.”

    The SNP has sold out Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty as if it was nothing. There are bloated robber barons with Scotland’s grease dribbling down their chin who haven’t cost this Nation as dearly as the Scottish Government which betrayed Scotland’s popular sovereignty.

    May you live forever Nicola Sturgeon. Love forever with the same infamy as the 1707 Parcel of Rogues.

    Vote SNP / SNP in 2021? Aye, make me.

  195. Liz g says:

    Twathater @ 3.07
    It’s actually no that I’m positive at all Twathater..LOL It’s that I’m really an auld cynic!

    While it’s true that those who have tried to get through have had little success so far!
    They are from the Yes movement looking for a policy change, while desperately trying not to do any damage to Nicola around independence.
    What they are Not, is an angry Yes movement telling her to “shit or get off the pot”.

    Which is a lot closer to where we are than the articles 5+ years of predictions and a whole different beast.
    The British Media couldn’t help her keep the status quo, they have no real credibility here and British Party’s support would only make it worse.
    I suspect that Scotland is about to revisit the “Thatcher years” if we don’t leave the Union and I can’t see Nicola or anyone else being able to hold the mechanisms of escape and not deploying then being allowed to coast through them like Labour did!
    I really can’t see Scotland being strung through Thatcher 2 point 0 like last time,when the route away from an overtly vindictive Westminster is already a main stream concept!
    Nicola has banked a lot of credibility with the people of Scotland but no “That” much! 🙂

    Not to mention..
    As the article says,”there’s only a small group at the top”and those MSPs at the bottom of that particular pyramid will know that they’d go the way of Labour if they didn’t act,and like politicians everywhere loyalty is a facade and self preservation would win out…

  196. Capella says:

    @ Rev Stu – thx for taking action. Hope the IP ban takes care of multiple personality syndrome.

    @ twathater – cmon – the country is run by several women, Kate Forbes and Jeane Freeman. Then there’s the men, John Swinney and Humza Yousaf. The media focus attention on one person and direct the public ire to that target. The very same happened to Alex Salmond when he was FM. They’re just finding it harder with NS.

  197. Ottomanboi says:

    Media reporting there will be famine ‘as a result of coronavirus’. More gloom for the coffin chasers to get worked up about.
    Actually if there is famine it will be owing to government decisions not SARS-CoV-2 virus.
    Governments duped by doomsday fixated international agencies, forecasters, modellers etc into actions that suggest they can no longer be trusted with our welfare.
    In the ‘UK’ that has now become rather more than merely suggestive.
    A political not a clinical matter.

  198. Liz g says:

    stuart mctavish @ 7.32
    One concern of many Stuart to be sure,but we could go on forever fretting about them.
    The simple truth is the Union needs to end and we’ll just have to deal with the pros and cons of the situation when it does!
    We can’t change the past and we face an awful future if Westminster are left in control, so there’s no real choice about it stuart.
    Some will be sad the Union failed but failed it has and when something’s dead the best thing to do is bury it.

  199. Capella says:

    @ twathater – also, it’s not true to say that nothing happened after the protest against the GRA. True I got no reply from several people who should have at least acknowledged getting a complaint. But the bill was taken off the table. Shirley-Anne Somerville made a climb down speech in Holyrood.

    Yes the bill came back again and another consultation was held. But then it was shelved again because of covid-19.
    It’s not dead yet but it’s getting there.

  200. Gary45% says:

    Over the last couple of years, when having online conversations with SIU, Brexiteer types, one of the most common retorts is, “You lost get over it”.
    Can anyone from “said groups” tell me, when they open their curtains onto their daily vista of the world, “What did you win”?
    Seriously what did you win?
    I can accept I was on the losing side,(both times) but at what cost and what detriment to my fellow citizens was the prize?
    Surely its more than just “The Dunkirk spirit, we’ll show them we was once great”?
    An Independent Scotland is much more than that.

  201. Polly says:


    ‘Aye, make me.’ You’re sounding more bitter than you did even when I first started reading the comments here and that was a short while ago. And I don’t blame you. Despite my mother believing in independence in her later years and my husband always doing so, I came to it only after Blair, and if I can feel scunnered after 18 years I feel heart sick for anyone with a lifetime longing for independence with the present impasse. That that impasse feels self directed is harrowing.

    I find, though agreeing with you, I’m not quite so bitter or hopeless. Liz g’s post at 8.13am is more to my own thinking so far. Nicola Sturgeon, whatever else she is, and I’m no longer a fan, would be accused of bringing in a new Thatcher era, and the only way I think she would accept that being hung round her neck was if she really was the plant some people think her. Whatever’s happened to her since, she wasn’t a plant under Salmond, there may still be fight in her and there certainly still seems fight in Salmond. His show is still a good one and he looks well. Do you really think he’ll not have something to say soon? There’s also, as Liz says, others who could step forward.

    There’s not much time but for myself, even if the present lot in power do nothing and squander all our hopes, I’ll go on afterwards in any way I can and with anyone who will join me. I only started seeing the need for independence after realising England would only accept labour in the hands of someone Tory light like Blair/Starmer, that makes independence the only way possible. The SNP years have shown some of what our country can do on our own. Salmond taught us to dream what our country was capable of, what we were capable of, and from that there’s no going back. Don’t give up just yet, we need people like you behind any new generation that will step forward.

  202. mike cassidy says:

    Another one for the Covidsceptics

    Monday Tweet

    The most outrageous lies are the ones about Covid 19. Everyone is lying. The CDC, Media, Democrats, our Doctors, not all but most, that we are told to trust. I think it’s all about the election and keeping the economy from coming back, which is about the election. I’m sick of it

    Wednesday Tweet

    To further clarify and add perspective, Covid-19 is real and it is here. My son tested positive for the virus, and I feel for of those suffering and especially for those who have lost loved ones

  203. Philip says:

    I have watched Wings Over Scotland for many years and have never known such a divide within the Yes Movement.

    I only hope someone can pull it together for the sake of Scottish Independence.

    Because at this moment in time the Indy train has come to a shuddering halt.

  204. Famous15 says:

    Hey Pete,the word I was looking for was MULTITASKING.

    I can chew chewing gum and walk at the same time.

    Can you play the banjo,fight Covid,play Oxford Union politics in Commons, AND seek independence?

    C’mon. You know you can.

  205. Effijy says:

    Brexit is the result of a democratic vote by the English
    Corrupted by the Bankers, Tax Avoiders and Money Launderers
    and the bought and paid for UK Media.

    The English claim they don’t want ties with other countries who
    Can influence their economic strategies.
    They don’t want Scotland to have control of its economic strategies
    As it’s better for us to give total control to another country?

    As pathetic as the trolls working here!

  206. FiferJP says:

    Brokenshire is the perfect new name for England

  207. Capella says:

    Matt Hancock desperately trying to massage away the English death rate from covid, or at lest muddy the waters even more.

    Hancock calls for urgent review into coronavirus death data in England

  208. callmedave says:

    Oh! Here we go:

    Hancock calls for urgent review into coronavirus death data in England

  209. callmedave says:

    Oh snap Capella!

    But mine is archived. 🙂

  210. Capella says:

    Smug! 🙂

  211. schrodingers cat says:

    And yet still she seems to fear you missed her telling you all of this, so she said it again as plainly as it is possible to say it. You. Are. Not. Getting. A. Referendum. In. The. Next. Five. Years. Is that clear enough?


    except, nicola didnt say this, Robin imagined it

  212. Republicofscotland says:

    The SNP heirarchy are definitely running scared of the new list vote parties, their former communications chief Fergus Much derided them today in the National newspaper, saying:

    “They give the Judean People’s Front a bad name.”

    We must give our list votes to other independence minded parties at Holyrood, and not throw them away on the SNP who gain very little by them.

  213. schrodingers cat says:

    Ross Greer @Ross_Greer·Jul 15
    If you’re sitting here now, with independence regularly polling above 50% for the first time ever, and arguing that ‘playing fair hasn’t got us anywhere’ you’re a bigger danger to the Yes movement than any of our actual opponents.

    Persuadable voters are not persuaded by cheating

    he is getting pelters for that.

    there are a number of different senarios that the tactical voting movement could effect the greens, some have argued that with increased awareness, the wasted snp list votes might transfer to the greens.

    personally, i dont. the scottish greens are about to be stuffed and mounted

  214. Capella says:

    Anyone voting for another list party to max the Indy vote will certainly not vote Green. I would vote for the ISP to oppose the GRA and HCB while still getting an Indy majority in Holyrood. Others might well decide on SNP/SNP. The Greens have held us to ransom long enough.

  215. James F. McIntosh says:

    Yes the union is dead because England is taking over the other regions/countries.

  216. Republicofscotland says:

    The UK chancellor lied, Jackson Carlaw backed that lie up at Holyrood, however the Scottish governments Finance secretary Kate Forbes, revealed it was a lie, and the IFS backed her up not the other two.

    The subject Westminster lies that more money was coming to Scotland via the Chancellors Emergency Budget. When it hadal aready been allocated.

  217. defo says:

    One man’s “imagined”, is another’s opinion SC. This opinion may be related to facts n stuff. Or not.

    Keep kicking Cat, it’s helpful.

  218. Dan says:

    @s. cat

    Maybe we could have a referendum to decide if there should be a referendum. Of course this idea would probably need a mandate, but that said, we’d probably need a mandate to be able to ask for that mandate…

    At this rate the Greens may drop out of supporting Indy due to the massive carbon footprint created by the emissions of folk traveling to polling stations in perpetuity.
    A climate effect situation exacerbated further by the over-consumption of ink and lead in their disposable pens and pencils to mark their Xs on ballot papers made from the last few remaining trees on the planet.

    Meanwhile, British Airways is retiring its Jumbos due to covid. The air travel company says getting rid of those fuel thirsty old barges will help BA achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2050…
    Hmm, air travel and net-zero carbon emissions…

  219. Republicofscotland says:

    This is typical of Number Ten Downing Street, they appointed a chairman to their new racial disparity commission, who’s previous views include that claims of institutional racism are flimsy.

    Tony Sewell was appointed as the chair of the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities yesterday.

  220. Republicofscotland says:

    Meanwhile Boris Johnson has been criticised for interfering in the election of the chairman to the Intelligence and Security Committee.

    Apparently the PM has no role in the say of who gets chosen, still that hasn’t stopped Johnson from trying to get his man elected to the position.

    God loves a trier, and Johnson is certainly very trying indeed.

  221. schrodingers cat says:


    its fine to say that what nicola meant, in my opinion, is…….

    its another to say, Nicola literally said, “You. Are. Not. Getting. A. Referendum. In. The. Next. Five. Years” when she said no such thing. he’s hallucinating. pished probably

    next he will be claiming nicola said, “I accidently killed Jesus during a time travelling rage”

  222. schrodingers cat says:

    At this rate the Greens may drop out of supporting Indy due to ……..
    dan, seriously, i really dont think it matters what the greens now think or say. they are dead men walking

  223. schrodingers cat says:

    Craig Murray @CraigMurrayOrg · 1h
    My current thinking is that the SNP is still the necessary vehicle for Independence. Indy is what the large majority of its members want.
    I do believe the SNP needs rescuing from careerists, those with pet issues they put above Indy, and those who tried to fit up Alex.

    Peter A Bell – #ScottishUDI #DissolveTheUnion @BerthanPete

    mmm, silly season must be over

    i wonder if it is something in the water?

  224. Joe says:


    RE: Brexit

    It is obvious to me that the EU is an institution in dire need of reform. The Euro needs to be reconsidered. As it stands the EU has now become its own entity made up of individual cells of the people who work there and collectively understand their nice jobs and pensions hinge on the future of the project.

    The immigration policies of the EU now serve the interests of global capital through forcing mass immigration of low skilled people regardless of what the people of member states might think. The EU trade policies (along with the restrictive Euro) also serve to dampen the economies of most member states by taking away their inherent economic maneuverability.

    The euro project is in serious economic trouble. As I have said numerous times – we just got over the largest economic expansion since the great depression, possibly ever, and the ECB couldn’t get interest rates above -0.45. Only for a few months was quantitative easing stopped – but it was quickly restarted.

    The EU project is kept aloft through debt and shifting the load onto the tax payers of member states. While this is true of most countries now (including the US and UK) the EU is among the worst performing. The individual nations of the EU and Eurozone would perform much better if they were allowed to set their own bespoke trade and economic policies. But that is not going to happen so long as the EU runs as it does.

    The banking sector of the EU is 3x the weight v GDP of the US banking sector in 2008.

    I can speak from experience of living in the EU and living in a country that is joining the EU that it is simply not serving the needs of ordinary people. The rising nationalist movements (you know, those folks the establishment and remainer types call ‘fascists’) are getting stronger every year thanks to Brussels.

    The tide is turning and people increasingly want the agencies who make decisions on their behalf to be within their own countries and accountable entirely to themselves.

    Thats not to suggest that there isnt a lot of nonsense out there from Brexiteers. Britain itself is in dire need of fixing. As for Scotland – I have no idea why the default position of people from an resource rich and potentially very wealthy country could see EU membership as the future.

    Thats some of what I see. Im glad we are leaving and I hope Scotland never rejoins under current conditions.

  225. schrodingers cat says:

    lol, retweeting an article where Devi is referred to as he

    Devi Sridhar @devisridhar·2h
    Another day. Another article calling me a bloke. Face with tears of joy 🙂

    Derek Bateman@DerekBateman2·6m
    Replying to @devisridhar and @StewartMcDonald
    Isn’t that SNP policy?

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

  226. J Galt says:

    mike cassidy@9.35am

    First of all there is no direct “test for Covid-19”.

    The test looks for genetic material which indicates that the person has anti-bodies which MAY have come from being exposed to Covid-19.

    The test has an extremely high false positive rate.

    These facts are acknowledged by medical professionals – we’re just not encouraged to know that.

    It is clear that “they” are nursing this along until we enter a new winter virus season when the scaremongering can start all over again.

    It is revealing that the emphasis now is on “Cases” ie people who have tested positive as above – most if not all will be healthy with no symptoms – they avoid telling us how many of these “Cases” have been hospitalised or even have symptoms. This should be trumpeted as success – more people developing immunity, instead it is portrayed as the opposite to the truth.

    We are not discouraged from believing that “70 new cases!” means 70 people fighting for their lives in ICU, they essentially want to terrorise as much of the population as possible – that is despicable.

    The vast majority if not all the deaths being recorded in the UK just now will be normal deaths of elderly people coming to the end of their lives on which “they” can plausibly hang a co-morbidity of Covid-19. All deaths are tragic and most are not pleasant but it is a fact we get old and die.

  227. schrodingers cat says:

    Joe says:
    RE: Brexit
    It is obvious to me that the EU is an institution in dire need of reform. The Euro needs to be reconsidered. As it stands the EU has now become its own entity made up of individual cells of the people who work there and collectively understand their nice jobs and pensions hinge on the future of the project.

    uk civil servants
    Margaret Thatcher came to office in 1979 and immediately set about reducing the size of the civil service, cutting numbers from 732,000 to 594,000. As at the end of March 2018 there were 430,075 civil servants

    eu civil servants
    The European Commission.Around 32 000 people are employed by the European Commission.

    In the European Parliament, around 7 500 people work in the general secretariat and in the political groups. They are joined by Members of Parliament and their staff. In the Council of the European Union, around 3 500 people work in the general secretariat.

  228. schrodingers cat says:

    @j galt

    at its hight, over 1000 deaths per day were being recorded as over and above the normal expected death rate.

    1000 per day !! not a statistic one can easily ignore. while it is now true the death rate has dropped to much less startling levels, especially in scotland, is it just possible that “they” are not scaremongering, just being cautious?

  229. schrodingers cat says:

    Nicola Sturgeon@NicolaSturgeon·33m
    1. A reminder that there’s no televised @scotgov #covid briefing today or Mon. We’ll be back Tues at 12.15pm. For next 2 weeks briefings will be Tues, Wed, Thurs. We’ll be back to 5 days a week at start of August in run up to schools going back.

  230. carjamtic says:

    Keep telling yerself f it’s coming, but I get a feeling I might just be missing something as I just don’t get it.

    Right in the middle of it, but not feeling it, not smelling it.

    However, Aye.

    Independence will happen, imagine that,, suddenly,unexpectedly, in spite of all the sleekit bar stewards on both sides.

    Leave genuine, honest Indy supporters alone and put away yer wee sharp claws for now, you might need them in the not too distant future.

    Could be the UB40 register that clinches it or mibbe something else, a combination of things, just remember nobody likes be taken for a ride.

    Aye, we will all hold our noses and go along with it, but we can, still smell the shite, or are we just imagining that as well, so a word to the wise, you’re not helping anybody, just shut the fuck up.

  231. Mialuci says:

    Its just a boys game, and tomorrow is just another saturday, and a hiv got monday on ma mind, but a shood be betta bae tuesday

  232. gus1940 says:

    Brilliant question by Paris G of the Hootsman to Boris which true to form was non-answered with the usual load of stuttering bollocks.

  233. Alec Lomax says:

    Johnson: as clear as mud.

  234. Joe says:


    So its a small clique of people whose livelihoods and careers benefit from its existence and more importantly – its current set up.

    Makes that point (one of several I posted) stronger in my opinion.

  235. Sensibledave says:

    Joe 11.16

    You wrote “As for Scotland – I have no idea why the default position of people from an resource rich and potentially very wealthy country could see EU membership as the future.”

    I think you being a touch naive Joe. Its simply because the perceived Tory/English position was to Leave … and therefore the SNP took on the opposite view as their policy to show difference and oppression. Its probably as simple as that.

  236. Stuart MacKay says:

    Chris Grey’s Brexit Blog is worth your time to read,

    Business will have ?7 billion in extra costs every year BEFORE any tariffs are added. Ten new lorry parks are being built presumably since drivers are going to be spending a lot of time sitting around to get customs clearance even if the new multi-million pound software systems needed are delivered on time and work as advertised (I’m not holding my breath on that one).

    So the new UK Common Market is making sense. It’s simply going to be too expensive and too time-consuming to trade with the EU so the locals are going to have to take up the slack.

    I bet the GRAdualists are going to be regretting not getting off their arses a bit sooner and doing something about Brexit. Particularly when aggrieved fishermen and fisherwomen are dumping their rotting catches on the steps of Holyrood in protest of their EU markets disappearing entirely.

  237. Gary45% says:

    Many thanks for posting the UKIP, Daily Mail, Express garbage.
    Question was “What did you win”?

  238. Joe says:


    I am strongly of the position that the SNP support the EU at the expense of all else because they are influenced heavily, probably outright owned in some individual cases by NGO’s and other groups who have certain macro political interests. Those political interests manifest themselves the same way in certain other countries that are further down the progressive rabbit hole than others such as Canada and New Zealand.

    Any pro EU prime minister would have had the SNP’s backing. Grudgingly for public consumption if it was Tory.

    Besides, I try to differentiate SNP from Scottish people even though many of them can’t manage it themselves. Yet.

  239. robbo says:

    Sensibledave says:
    17 July, 2020 at 12:17 pm
    Joe 11.16


    Really. I think you’ll find we trust Europeans far more than we trust Westminster .England wants to leave,leave. We don’t need to follow you.Was it not advisory ,the result?

  240. defo says:

    Sorry, a more accurate word would be his’interpretation’, rather than ‘opinion ‘.
    I don’t think anyone was meant to think it verbatim. She doesn’t shout, or do that stuttering Tory thing.

    He’s a very sad bunny anyhow, and he’s not a lone voice!

  241. J Galt says:

    Schrodinger’s cat @ 11.44am

    Nobody is saying we didn’t have a moderate to severe winter virus outbreak. There have been worse ones which were hardly noticed by those outside the medical profession or those directly affected.

    It is a fact that in the UK deaths peaked on April the 8th, long before the effects of the lockdown could have influenced deaths. There is no evidence the “lockdown” saved even one single life.

    The UK has one of the highest death rates because the care homes and over 70 generally were badly mismanaged from the start and I’m sorry to say there was little difference north and south of the border despite the myths now being peddled.

    This neglect went so far as bribing private care homes (Birmingham exposed so far) to take suspected elderly CV-19 patients from NHS hospitals to “free up” beds which subsequently lay empty – like most of the NHS.

    And how many of your 1000 a day above average were actually caused by the Lockdown and the perception of almost total shut down of the NHS for anything other than Covid-19? How many fatal heart attacks, strokes etc caused by hesitation to seek treatment immediately? Cancer treatment virtually suspended – how many did that kill? Suicides caused by abandonment of the mentally ill – how many of them?

    This disease – like most similar winter virus/flu events affects mostly over 70s and those with underlying conditions, the average age of the dead around 80. This disease was virtually an irrelevance for those under 60 or with no underlying conditions, as long as the vulnerable are protected by sensible measures.

    The care homes should have been immediately isolated, all over 70s offered immediate assistance to isolate at home or elsewhere on a voluntary basis. And the rest of us should have got on with life as normal with certain basic precautions.

    Instead we have a social and economic disaster on our hands, a cancer timebomb, a mental health catastrophe and the biggest killer of all poverty about to affect millions.

    Far from we sceptics being responsible for harm it is the enthusiasts, the unthinking majority going along with the venal politicians north and south of the border who have and will have blood and suffering on their hands.

  242. Sinky says:

    From Joanna Cherry: If you want to understand the harsh legal reality of the #powergrab on devolution listen back to
    @AileenMcHarg on #bbcgms after eight. The brutal fact is this will be done by primary legislation & when @ScotParl
    withholds consent that will be ignored.

    As Aileen says because the Westminster parliament is supreme once it passes legislation there will be no real opportunity for legal action. I suspect she is right. The remedy is political not legal & it lies in #independence

    As to how we obtain a second #indyref that is constitutional & therefore a result thats recognised internationally if a section 30 order continues to be withheld here I believe legal action might assist. And here like others I await developments

    You won’t hear Aileen McHarg on TV and other than The National no coverage of IFS backing Kate Forbes on only £21m additional funding.

  243. schrodingers cat says:

    so a few translators find gainful employment? so what?

    are you suggesting all meps learn international sign language?

    pointless discussion, next you’ll be arguing for msps from the isles should be made to swim to the mainland when attending holyrood

  244. Sensibledave says:


    I havent spent too much time thinking about this – so I might be wrong – but can you give me a list of say, 5 significant policy issues (excluding CV19) where the SNP have supported the UK government policy?

    I remember when even fox hunting was a reason for “difference”. BTW, still to this day, after all the furore back then, i believe the fox hunting laws in Scotland are still more “lax” than in England!

  245. Joe says:


    Please refer to my post at 8:30pm on the 16th.

    Rearrange some of the wording and it pretty much stands.

    One thing that was won is lots and lots of tears from people who want to pretend that people who want Brexit are somehow misinformed or bigoted.

    Ive just given you my reasons (some of them) why I wanted Brexit. Its not about ‘winning’. Of course you demonstrate such a low resolution view on the world I can see why your perspective would simply be ‘winning’ or ‘losing’.

    You are, after all, still an SNP supporter

    My views on the EU come from the fact I am involved on the financial markets almost on a daily basis. Macro economics is something I have to pay attention to along with industry news, central banking policy and political trends.

    For this reason I have my own views, not the dogma of ideologues.

  246. schrodingers cat says:

    Sinky says:
    I believe legal action might assist. And here like others I await developments


    possibly, but i have little faith in us obtaining justice from the supreme court.

  247. schrodingers cat says:

    Macro economics 101

    wto tariff barriers will add 10% on imports and exports

  248. Joe says:


    I don’t think the EU issue can be compared to anything else. Its not just another policy point. We are looking at events shaping global politics for another generation or 2 – that includes many more powerful players on the international stage.

    Its naive to believe that the political parties involved have not been at least been somewhat influenced by outside powers.

  249. schrodingers cat says:

    Sensibledave says:
    fox hunting in Scotland is only legal if once you catch a fox, you eat it raw 🙂

    Is it possible that the folk in scotland dont support tory policy cos they dont agree with them?

  250. schrodingers cat says:

    maybe the desire to stay in the eu is not the dogma of ideologues but the democratically expressed will of the sovereign people of scotland?

  251. Joe says:


    Damn. I never considered that. Silly me.

    Thanks for putting me right SC.

  252. Kat says:

    Is this Aunties way of saying Westminster will replace the EU to be the overarching authority in the UK?

    Nice that she is breaking the news to us gently in case it comes as a terrible surprise.

  253. schrodingers cat says:


    you’re welcome 🙂

  254. Joe says:


    maybe the desire to stay in the eu is not the dogma of ideologues but the democratically expressed will of the sovereign people of scotland?’

    Maybe its both.

  255. Beaker says:

    ‘schrodingers cat says:
    17 July, 2020 at 12:37 pm
    “you’ll be arguing for msps from the isles should be made to swim to the mainland when attending holyrood”

    Sounds like a fine idea. Good for the circulation and whatnot.

  256. gus1940 says:

    Re Paris G’s question to Boris – Can anybody provide a full transcript of the question and answer for us to laugh at?

  257. schrodingers cat says:

    Maybe its both

    maybe it is, never the less, no matter how ill informed you think the people of scotland are, their sovereign will is always the defining factor in the decisions politicians make for us

  258. schrodingers cat says:

    you jest right?

    have you seen ian blackford?, he aint no heiland coo, swimming the kyle at loch alsh would be the end of him 🙂

  259. schrodingers cat says:


    do you think that an independent scotland should be in the cu and the sm ?

  260. Gary45% says:

    Many thanks for the advice on looking back at your previous post.
    The question still remains unanswered.
    “What did you win”?

  261. robbo says:

    Joe says:
    17 July, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    My views on the EU come from the fact I am involved on the financial markets almost on a daily basis. Macro economics is something I have to pay attention to along with industry news, central banking policy and political trends.

    For this reason I have my own views, not the dogma of ideologues.


    Financial markets, lol. You mean ponzi schemes, aye?

  262. robbo says:

    J Galt says:
    17 July, 2020 at 12:35 pm
    Schrodinger’s cat @ 11.44am


    Seems some still don’t get it.Ah well.

  263. schrodingers cat says:

    J Galt says:
    Nobody is saying we didn’t have a moderate to severe winter virus outbreak. There have been worse ones which were hardly noticed by those outside the medical profession or those directly affected.

    when? name one

  264. liz says:

    @Breeks well Breeks I normally think you talk a lot of sense and if you think Blackford might be more savvy than he looks, I will be very happy if you’re right.

    I worry slightly that Joanna Cherry did say that many in the SNP were worried that she would challenge Blackford for the WM leaders position a second time but she said she’d no intentions of doing so.

  265. Joe says:


    Maybe its both

    maybe it is, never the less, no matter how ill informed you think the people of scotland are, their sovereign will is always the defining factor in the decisions politicians make for us’

    I don’t think the sovereign will of Scottish people is seriously considered by any of the official parties at this moment in time.

    As for informed people – we can see by the mass wake-up that is starting regarding the SNP that the people of Scotland have been duped on 1 thing at least. They will eventually wake up to the truth of the EU also.

    Anyhoo – must go. Those taxes don’t accrue themselves.

  266. Sensibledave says:


    You wrote “Is it possible that the folk in scotland dont support tory policy cos they dont agree with them?”

    …. it is indeed “possible”. However it is more likely that they have been told the party line, that they then follow unquestioningly.

    I have been posting here for many years so I remeber lots of disussion on the “SNP robots” tropes. In the end though, when a party has been around long enough, been in power long enough – they become the “establishment”. Then, they find it increasingly difficult to control views on matters outside of the “single issue” nature of their existance. Now we see the SNP is riven on the subject of GRA. GRA isnt a left/right issue (or shouldn’t be) and it isnt a Scotland v England thing. It certainly hasn’t got anything to do with Independence!

    At one stage oldies dying and the youngsters getting the vote was perceived as the sure route to Independence. It is those young and the “woke” that are now causing a major reduction in support for the SNP (you only have to read recent threads here).

    So the SNP (as a political party of government) have to govern. They have to have policy on everything – and they now discover that just because someone is pro-indy, it doesnt mean that they will support the prty on everything else. Welcome to the world of compromise, deal, fudge, etc as, together with all the other parties in the UK, the SNP try to walk a tightrope of being inclusive as a “broad church” for focus of Independence – without antogonising and alienating their root supporters.

  267. liz says:

    @Morvent hat Robin McAlpine article confirms my worst fears

  268. Bob W says:


    Hahaha, everyone in Scotland has been told the party line and follows without question! I paraphrase but you a Tory supporter, telling any Scot that they just tow the party line is IMHO ludicrous. Try looking at your own party without the rose tinted glasses.

  269. J Galt says:

    The 2017/18 flu season killed 61k in the US, I couldn’t find the UK figure, of course you will come back with around 140k in the US CV19 deaths – however I would postulate that there has been widespread massaging up of the figures by dodgy misreporting and effective falsifying of death certificate – in the US in particular there has been financial benefits to hospitals – which after all businesses – to report deaths as CV19 even without a test and when it was a minor co-morbidity.

    It is obvious this is now a social engineering/economic reset event in the US and UK in particular, a complicated exploitation of a real event helped along for sinister reasons.

    You will disagree of course and I notice you didn’t address any of my other points – don’t bother, there’s no point getting into a pantomime “oh yes its, Oh no it isn’t” scenario – anyway everybody’s moved on to the next post.

  270. iain mhor says:

    Much like avoiding another recent controversial word ‘..which the BBC is not naming’ Perhaps it’s policy now.

    ‘Today in a country (not the UK) Two leaders (who shall remain anonymous) of countries, we shall refrain from naming, met to discuss something best not spoken of, in an attempt to resolve an issue which will have undefined consequences for other places…’
    ‘Next the regional news where you may, or may not, be – about a very important and redacted topic: First, breaking news: Bookkeeping Kleptomaniac identifies corporation bus, wistfully – 3 across…’

  271. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see the cat is still determined to tell everyone what the state of the world is, and what our best strategy should be. So I hope folk remember the cat thinks morals are a fantasy, and he holds the rule-of-law in contempt. That’s more than unfortunate, as justice in unobtainable without recourse to the law. That’s law, not British constitutional bollocks dispensed by clown-shoes courts.

    I mentioned post-modern critical social theory is method not ideology. It has even been called the METHODOLOGY OF THE OPPRESSED.

    Methodology of the Oppressed

  272. Mags says:

    leo varadkar the irish taoiseach posted on twitter

    Leo Varadkar

    Interesting but not a surprise. In Ireland we counted all deaths, in all settings, suspected cases even when no lab test was done, and included people with underlying terminal illnesses who died with Covid but not of it. Leo Varadkar

    Jul 3
    Replying to
    This was right approach but skewed the numbers. Priority is to save lives not look good in league tables.

  273. Polly says:


    ‘…and therefore the SNP took on the opposite view as their policy to show difference and oppression. Its probably as simple as that.’

    No, it’s not. In the first instance, unless the SNP knew the majority of the country, independence and union supporters alike, were strongly in favour of staying in the EU then why would they take a view just to oppose the English Tories? What would that get them? The SNP view was opposed to the English Tories on this, certainly, but so too were most of the voters and elected politicians in Scotland, including Scottish Tories. Secondly, well, frankly there are more arguments but if that’s the best you can do, then I agree with other posters here, your name is an oxymoron.

  274. Julia Gibb says:

    I was about to post when I remembered this.

    The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

    Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

  275. CameronB Brodie says:

    There are certainly some cracking egos on display btl, seeking to sustain their unqualified opinion, while undermining and scapegoating the opinion of Others.

    BMC Palliative Care volume 13, Article number: 28 (2014)
    Meanings of existential uncertainty and certainty for people diagnosed with cancer and receiving palliative treatment: a life-world phenomenological study

  276. crazycat says:

    @ J Galt at 11.24

    First of all there is no direct “test for Covid-19”.

    The test looks for genetic material which indicates that the person has anti-bodies which MAY have come from being exposed to Covid-19.

    According to this :

    there are two types of test; one for the presence of viral DNA which indicates a current infection, and one for antibodies, which indicates a possible past infection.

    I assume you are confusing the two, because you mention genetic material (ie the DNA test) as an indication of antibodies.

    Or do you not believe that the DNA test really exists?

  277. Terry callachan says:

    Yes. I know it
    Elsewhere is a place that calls itself everything except what it really is

    We have a lot of people living in Scotland from there
    But they don’t like to say they are from there

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