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The King Of Facts

Posted on July 24, 2016 by

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kevmichael

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    268 to “The King Of Facts”

    1. Macbeda says:

      Now I remember why I don’t have a Twitter account.

    2. Laverock says:

      Just in case you were not convinced by the graphs of Kevin Hague.

      Now endorsed by Alistair Carmichael.

    3. Rookiescot says:

      If Carlsberg did irony …..

    4. heedtracker says:

      Jump in anywhere and does Kevrage really believe his own toryboy waffle? Even rancid The Graun said last year that HMRC own figures show at least £16bn UKOK tax dodging going on.

      Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 2h Gifford, Scotland
      @AlexMacLeod9 @MikeRamsay4 @acarmichaelmp @SayYesToIndy

      you think there’s some tax being unaccounted for? tax UK gov is not collecting?

    5. Bugger (le Panda) says:

      “Nothing like facts to cause the ire amongst the devout”

      Nice we religious metaphor there from a proven LIAR who seemingly does not understand facts.

    6. David says:

      OK I’ve missed something, who is this Kevin fella and what has he got to do with pet food. Honest question however feel as though watching a program having missed the first series.

    7. Dan Huil says:

      Liar Carmichael has time to tweet? I thought he’d be out begging, rattling his paper cup on Kirkwall High Street.

    8. heedtracker says:

      You have to hand it Carmicheal for his brass neck. £1 million cost UKOK civil service investigation into his French ambassador phoney leak to the Telegraph twits, £200+k crowd funding for Orkney constituents that took him to court, Rowntrees fruitpastels gives him £50+K to pay for his legal fees for British democracy n shit reasons they said, and now

      Alistair Carmichael
      ?@acarmichaelmp
      @kevverage Really? I just thought you were winding them up. Nothing like facts to cause ire amongst the devout.

      http://www.channel4.com/news/malcom-bruce-alistair-carmichael-should-not-resign-because

      “First I knew of the leak was getting a phone call Friday afternoon from a hack making me aware of it…”

    9. yesindyref2 says:

      I think Alistair Carmichael is looking for Redemption by endorsing Average to discredit him.

    10. Macart says:

      Oh my mither and faither!

      Just wow!

      These fellas are aware of the world around themselves, right?

    11. Graeme Doig says:

      They both seem to have an opinion on everything except the word integrity.

    12. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, and did I mention before that Average didn;t post my last reply, the one where I pointd out how in his grothing efforts to defend the indefensible, he’d contradicted himself in his postings, and thereby proved even to himself he got “fiscal transfer2 wrong?

      Didn’t I? How remiss of me! Well, I’ve still got it, maybe I should post it again, and it’ll appear at the bottom of his blig.

      I’m sure he wouldn’t want to be selective, and only post comments taht agree wtih him.

    13. heedtracker says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UjKkVd1LtU

      A shaky lecture on how BetterTogether went about their business 2014, with BBC’s Meil Oliver and Crash Gordon at the end, lying through his teeth for teamGB. The spiv even kids on he can Deutsch sprechen.

    14. BJ says:

      Help me Rhona, they’re throwing facts at me!

    15. yesindyref2 says:

      That’ll teach me to post while eating toast.

    16. CageyBee says:

      He is a period short of a full load damn you twitter

      “Nothing like facts. To cause the ire amongst the devout”

    17. Thepnr says:

      Another pair who are Bitter Together.

    18. Paul Wilson says:

      What would Carmichael know about facts he is a proven liar!

    19. Bill says:

      What will happen to all these Loyalists after independence? How will they cope?

    20. sinky says:

      Talking about Tories, I see Ian Murray is main Scottish cheer leader for Owen Smith.

      However Smith’s right wing credentials are fully exposed by Craig Murray

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/07/entirely-fake-owen-smith/

    21. ScottishPsyche says:

      Slightly O/T :

      KevR and Loki – two sides of the same coin.

      Both MSM favourites. Both allowing themselves to be utterly trapped and defined by their deprived upbringing and using it to their advantage whenever it suits – in fact add in Lady Mone as well. What about the people who just get on with it every day of their lives?

      What is it about MSM and these characters – does someone revelling in and constantly referring to the awfulness of their upbringing give them credibility? Do MSM mouthpieces choosing to spill their guts at every opportunity assuage the guilt of MSM in not tackling Tory policies or Labour complicity?

      Shame on them all.

    22. louis.b.argyll says:

      Who is this Carmicheal character? Didn’t he used to be a dork anyway..before the fudge.
      And indeed..what’s this twitter thing..

    23. louis.b.argyll says:

      Can we be..;
      OUT of the UK,
      IN the EU,
      and NOT on twitter?

      Is it too much to ask? Christmas soon.

    24. Effijy says:

      The Petition against Blatant Biased Corruption by the BBC against Scottish Independence, has ramped up over the last few days! (Thank You All!)

      So far 89,612 Scots have signed up.

      With your help, I soon look forward to informing you that the Number is over 90,000.

      A number just a wee bit more difficult for the BBC to devalue, such as their “200 people took part in a protest outside their Glasgow Offices” fantasy.

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    25. Clootie says:

      “If you don’t want a man unhappy politically, don’t give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it be all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag. Give the people contests they win by remembering the words to more popular songs or the names of state capitals or how much corn Iowa grew last year. Cram them full of noncombustible data, chock them so damned full of ‘facts’ they feel stuffed, but absolutely ‘brilliant’ with information. Then they’ll feel they’re thinking, they’ll get a sense of motion without moving. And they’ll be happy, because facts of that sort don’t change.”
      ? Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

      Makes a change from Orwell’s 1984 ?

      …enter the BBC to provide our facts…!!!

    26. Alastair says:

      Attended Carmicheal court debacle. Guilty but not guilty as we know it.

      Who Own’s Smith – Pfixers set to stunned. It’s politics Jermoy but not as we know it..

      A clear case of Establishment and corporate v the little people. How many little people does it take to claim back true democracy? We will see.

      Carmicheal- there is no redemption. If only your standards were even on a normal radar.

    27. liz says:

      Have to say I don’t see any point in putting up petitions from 38 degrees.

      The gov only has to pay attention to their own one.

      https://www.gov.uk/petition-government

    28. Graeme says:

      it seems there are 2 kind of facts in this world, actual facts and Unionist facts

      entirely different things

      Graeme

    29. Luigi says:

      ScottishPsyche says:

      24 July, 2016 at 4:59 pm

      Slightly O/T :

      KevR and Loki – two sides of the same coin.

      You mean two cheeks of the same………))

    30. Gary45% says:

      Kevin Vague= USELESS ARSEHOLE.
      Alistair Carbuncle= LYING USELESS ARSEHOLE.
      Sue Me, then again (the truth hurts)
      I won’t say anything else on the matter.
      Indy Ref 2 AYE
      Tick Tock.

    31. David Mills says:

      Like the Kevin graphs with scales of defended axis in other word pretty pictures in a simplistic line and dots style.

      With often averages of averages etc yes i going to trust that as much a a report of estimates and superstitions.

    32. Macbeda says:

      I’m just a simple engineer by training and practice. One of the many tasks I often had to undertake was keeping any project within budget.

      So, it’s from that approach that I pen the following on the Fiscal Deficit story.

      Fiscal Deficit

      Definition: The difference between total revenue and total expenditure of the government is termed as fiscal deficit. It is an indication of the total borrowings needed by the government. While calculating the total revenue, borrowings are not included.

      The current Scottish Government does not have a Fiscal Deficit because the books for income and expenditure are balanced as required under the Act.

      The SNP Scottish Government has never overspent in any financial year and has shown a proven probity in the management of the revenue under their control. I believe previous administrations also had balanced the books. Sometime they even gave money back because the accounting rules required it.

      On the other hand, like most governments, the UK Government has and continues to have a Fiscal Deficit and so continues to increase the growing National Debt to around £1.6 Trillion

      Nobody in Scotland has any control over of any of this because everything to do with revenue is ultimately spent by the UK government in London, even the pocket money given to the devolved administrations.

      I will repeat, Scotland’s pocket money from the UK government is well managed by the current SNP Scottish Government with no Fiscal Debt.

      Were Scotland to become independent then Scotland’s share of the National Debt would be around £132 Billion.

      To offset this would be Scotland’s share of the UK assets which is estimated to be around £1.4 Trillion.

      The difference between Assets and Debt is therefore circa £200 billion of which Scotland share of the residual National debt would be £16.8, let’s be generous and say £17 Billion.

      Scotland GDP is currently estimated to be $233 Billion (£177 Billion).

      This means the total debt to GDP is around 10% which is considerably less than the UK.

      Scotland on independence would have no Fiscal Deficit but would have a National Debt of around £17 Billion against a GDP of £177 Billion per annum.

      Well within the normal debt for any government.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      Well, there are facts pertaining to reality, and ‘other facts’.

      Problem is, unless you keep yourself informed, you can’t distinguish.

      Much of BT and Leave’s success was down to bovine excrement which some voters believed to be true when passed off by the EBC and dead tree merchants.

      As for Carmichael, I would have thought he would have lain low for a decade or two.

    34. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hey Keverage – who do you think would know better about the viability of an Independent Scotland, a number of nobel prize-winning economists who support it or a frothing, swivel-eyed Yoonie like you with a B-minus in O-Grade arithmetic? Put your cryons away – you’re out of your depth, laddie. And with the LIAR Carmichael endorsing your, eh ‘graphs’, well – ’nuff said. But I suppose you have to be someone’s glove puppet, someone’s useful idiot.

    35. heedtracker says:

      Daily Heil piles in too. As a wannabe cybernat conspiracy theorist, how come a dude like Kevrage are never off BBC Scotland stuff, like Scotland 2016, although its been scrapped now?

      With all due respect to Kevrage, he’s maybe a pin up boy for tory yoon culture online but he’s not exactly in the thick of it and there is never any comparable YESers on BBC Scotland tv freak outs with him either.

      Balance and unbiased BBC fraudsters would never dare do it, but any cybernat would have lots of queries for the dog food sales man, like what on earth you think “fiscal transfer” means Kevrage? 😀

      Chris Deerin Retweeted
      David Leask ?@LeaskyHT 23h23 hours ago
      David Leask Retweeted Hugo Rifkind
      Ditto for Cybernats with MSM conspiracy theories, Brexity dingbats, Old Firm paranoics & Gaelophobic unionist wackosDavid Leask added,

      Hugo Rifkind @hugorifkind
      I wonder if there’s a nagging bit in the minds of Corbynites whereby they look at Trumpers, and pause, and wonder if they’re the same thing.
      14 retweets 14 likes

    36. arthur thomson says:

      Watched the Shorthouse video.

      So he started his campaign with a 10% lead and ended it with a 10% lead. In between he had every conceivable advantage via the media, the British state and their allies abroad and all the British political parties. He based half his campaign on empty promises that would never be kept, aimed at a people who had been schooled for centuries in learned helplessness.

      What a champion – well it begins with a C but champion may not be the word I’m looking for.

      We should all be taking heart from this. Next time we will be starting from a much better place, with far greater resources and public knowledge of the zero value of their promises.

      O/T but I highly recommend listening to the discussion of the legal issues re Scotland and the EU on GMS today about 30mins in.

    37. I’ve had two people approach me today about the dire state of the Sunday Herald. This is a paper which purports to support independence but has not in any recent edition given any praise at all or even balanced coverage to the SNP.

      In fact today’s edition only features the SNP with carping criticism. It was the same last week.

      It appears to be the organ of of the insufferable floaters of the noisy element of the far and disjointed left that gained a resounding less than 1% at the last Election.

      It purports to support independence but slyly attacks the only organisation capable of achieving it and both its feature writers,Tom Gordon in particular,and Paul Hutcheon are Labour hacks. Or should I say “Unionist hacks”.
      How we miss Iain Bell.

      This is very odd as the Sunday Herald under Richard Walker was very independence focussed. An even odder as as the Sunday Herald had stumbled the National improves on a daily and weekly basis.

      I think a boycott of the Sunday Herald may be an option.

      And just to be clear. I have heard it said recently that we need to be more radical and left wing to win the next referendum.
      No. We do not.
      It voted YES last time. We need to encourage more of those of the non left persuasion who didn’t vote YES if we are to win.

    38. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dave Mcewan Hill it’s more than a few weeks, I and a few folk I know gave up on the Sunday Herald before the GE when they printed lies about tactical voting.

      It used to be hard to get hold of a SundaybHerald here if you did not have one on order, these days there are plenty on the newsagents Shelf’s ,msp I am not alone in starting a boycott months ago.

    39. louis.b.argyll says:

      Opposition to independence is staid, stale and self centred.

    40. sinky says:

      Kevrage even quoted in today’s l Sunday Times magazine hachet job on Scotland.

    41. Ken500 says:

      Troughing tax evaders. Abusing public money.

      Won the battle but lost the war. Rob’s refrain. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Not very good with numbers. Exit.

    42. HandandShrimp says:

      That made me laugh on a dreich Sunday night.

      🙂

    43. KJH says:

      That’ll possibly be me. He called me a “dribbling idiot” because I insinuated (in more diplomatic language) that his magic graphs were shite.

      Was going to come back and suggest we could charge the rUK whatever the hell we wanted for hosting their nukes, but couldn’t be arsed. Haitch had called down the Yoon hordes and I had better things to do on a sunny Saturday than rise to a fud with daddy issues.

    44. Proud Cybernat says:

      Herald Group advertising for a new Political Editor in SH today. Obviously the one they had was clearly much too pro-indy (sniggers).

      Will they ever ‘get’ it? There is only one direction Scotland is moving and they surely MUST see that? A blind man wearing two eye-patches doon a coal-mine without a candle can see it FFS.

      Herald, yer tea’s oot.

    45. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just a reminder – there is a standing invitation to ‘journalists’ to come and Meet The CyberNats.

      Despite repeated friendly overtures, not ONE hack has ever taken the time to approach us directly at any of the numerous events we’ve organised and/or attended.

      We’ll be at the rally in Glasgow next week, and we won’t be hard to spot.

      Why not come and talk to us instead of indulging in the usual slap-dash lazy pish we’ve become accustomed to? – never know, you might even establish some facts about us, mysteriously elusive creatures that we are…

      😉

    46. seanair says:

      Dave McEwan Hill
      I gave up on the Sunday Herald ages ago for all the reasons quoted. No Sunday paper left to take up the gauntlet of independence, which is a disgraceful state of affairs. Will be interested to see how much more the SH readership has fallen when the Herald graciously lets us know the facts.
      Come on SH readers, stop being SH readers!

    47. Keith Barclay says:

      Hi Wings I asked Keverage some time ago; so basically your telling us under Westminsters stewardship were skint, keep up the good work for us more optimistic YES folks.

      It’s stating the blindingly obvious now how Scotland’s oil wealth transformed London, even if it isn’t recognised.

      How could that wealth have transformed Glasgow or Kirkcaldy or Cowdenbeath, Lochgelly, Inner or outer Hebrides the list is long! I also stated to Keverage any business professional studies history as a valuable tool to learn and ensure similar mistakes are never repeated and in equal measure to learn from these mistakes, point was lost for obvious reasons. Basically History should be ignored we have to move on and work together for the better, Irony on steroids! I don’t think I really have to say much more except if you have been pick pocketed continuously you don’t shake the pickpockets hand and ask him to look after your finances!

      Lovet similar discussion but his counter argument was; we spend to much. however I stated these are all policy aspirations we agree with, were you lucky enough to have free University education?

      OK to cut the story short I asked Keverage to investigate Islays Whiskey exports and how much that contributes to the exchequer and how much is reinvested into the 3000 population, not being a Twitter expert I think I was blocked, I’ve never seen a Keverage post since.

      Without being overly dramatic Islay should be a mini California. So conclusion; I tried to gather the numbers of Single Malt litres of whiskey produced by Islays 8 distilleries, including Jura. The number was around 15 million capacity with plans for expansion. Oh and the nugget guess where Keverage apparently was raised!

      I’ve been lucky in my job to travel to many countries on business and it always amazes me the admiration for the Scots!

      Anyway emotion to one side is there anyone out there who can contribute to this discussion? I know it is only a very small part of the fuller Scottish Brand picture but I think this is very good example of Scottish assets being underplayed and ignored.

      Sent from my iPad

    48. Valerie says:

      Gawd, we are doomed to be trolled by brass necked balloon, Carmichael. It’s a bloody disgrace that the man has no shame or standards to keep his gob shut.

      I’m not buying the SH, they can ram it. I bought it sporadically to give it a chance, but there is a sly game going on, to just get money in.

      Hit them where it hurts guys. I am supporting the National meantime.

      I think the Indy movement should think really hard about ignoring and blocking. It’s my dearest wish that these arseholes are left talking to each other.

      Don’t give them.oxygen or ammunition.

    49. Mark Fletcher says:

      I am very glad to say that the devout have the perfect rejoinder to the forked-tongue Carmichaelists: Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness. He and his kind are damned. Rest assured.

    50. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Valerie –

      🙂

      It’s a fascinating glimpse into the mindset of people who assume they can order everyone else’s lives, regardless of how the poor subjects may feel about it.

      Reminded me of this:

      ‘Lilith Needs A Favor’, Frasier, (S.10, ep 13):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFCDP2S3CCc

    51. JLT says:

      i kind of wondered what Carmichael was getting up to these days. Last time I saw him was standing next to some UKIPPER boy while burping out meaningless nonsense after the Brexit result. Now we have him uttering pure drivel in the Twitter universe also. Makes you wonder what regurgitating nonsense will be spewed out should we have a 2nd Scottish Referendum…

    52. Chic McGregor says:

      Some chiels are dingers that’s a fact.

    53. Grouse Beater says:

      The smart avoid associating with people like Carmichael and Keverage – it could damage their reputation, or career.

    54. carjamtic says:

      Once senses promises of greatness,arise Sir Desperate Barsteward (s).

      Your fallback position….there isn’t one….all the flip flop repair man jobs have been taken.

      Mission accepted,that’s good….game on then.

      #muttncutt

    55. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      I see Jim Sillars is backing councillor Chris McEleny for deputy SNP leader. I suspect that’s the end of his chances.

    56. mealer says:

      Auld reekie pants Carmichael? What a clown.

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      Getting back to the original comment made by KH. It’s as clear as day that the man’s a disingenuous moron.

      Life is about more than economics and at best, his analysis might give a gimps of a possible economic future but can not be other than empirically subjective.

      Oi Kevrage. Boned up on space and place yet? What about existential phenomenology? Semiotics? Sorry but you won’t winalot of arguments without this knowledge.

    58. ronnie anderson says:

      Test Test Test

    59. Alan Mackintosh says:

      In reply to Ronnie, Tora Tora Tora !

    60. ronnie anderson says:

      posts disapearing I refreshed & the test post wasent there

    61. HandandShrimp says:

      Life is about more than economics and at best, his analysis might give a gimps of a possible economic future

      I appreciate that there is typo in there but the misspell might be more accurate 🙂

      I have always leaned to the Galbraith quote

      “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.”

    62. Effijy says:

      liz says:

      24 July, 2016 at 5:29 pm

      Have to say I don’t see any point in putting up petitions from 38 degrees.

      The gov only has to pay attention to their own one.

      Hi Liz, I’ll take the hard work that has gone into the 38 Degrees petition against Westminster’s Blatant Biased Corruption that operates under the name of BBC “Scotland”.

      We have 89,650 Scots already registered against their promulgation of propaganda.

      I look forward to backing up my own complaints to them, by telling them that over 90,000 agree with me that you, the BBC, are completely and utterly corrupt right down to your license fees for the registered Blind.

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    63. Clootie says:

      @Ronnie 11:17

      In my best panto voice – Oh yes it is!

    64. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      DMH @19:33,

      Well said there.

      I wondered how the radical left would react when they discovered (as the last ScotGE revealed all too starkly) that indy wasn’t a passport to their socialist Nirvana. So far they seem to have resorted to sporadic attempts at a rearguard EU Leave action (mostly via The National), which is hardly a winner for indy. I just wish they would ditch the diversions and focus instead on the main door prize for all: independence first. But their numbers are so low that it matters little either way, I s’pose.

      Far worse are the Labourite old hacks, who like their party are now completely clueless but just can’t break old habits, and attack indy largely out of spite, it seems.

      Sorry that seems to be happening at The Sunday Herald, but absent Richard Walker maybe the resident hacks have gone feral. (Not a pleasant thought. I always used to groan when Hutcheon appeared on Scotland 201x. He always seemed so very miserable about everything.)

      What about its weekly stablemate The Herald, though? Didn’t it promise to support indy after a Brexit win? Looking en passant at its headlines of late, it seems less negative perhaps, but hardly full-on pro-indy either.

    65. Ananurhing says:

      Did anyone else just see Sarah Smith on the BBC 10 o’clock news? I’m astonished. I’ve just rewound and watched it 3 times and my jaw is on the floor.

      For anyone who missed it,

      Sarah Smith reporting on the likelyhood of indyref2 after Brexit from a fancy dress parade in Innerleithen, Strongest No voting area on the mainland, always opposed independence. Pipe band and lots of hilarity.

      She talks to 3 middle aged local voters, 2 of them admit to voting No last time, the third is tacitly No. English No voting lady is now emphatically Yes, Scottish No guy now questions his previous decision, and third lady thinks indyref2 cannot be avoided.

      No token unionists at all were interviewed.

      Cut to Edinburgh. Educated middle class asian? guy. Voted No last time because of EU. Enthusiastic Yes now.

      Eh? Then the best bit.

      Alex Massie talking of Brexit feeding the narrative of irreconcilable differences, and that it no longer makes sense for Scotland and England to remain part of the same nation state.

      WTF. No opposing unionist viewpoint.

      Th e only dissenting voice was Jim Fairlie chuntering on about indy in EU being ” A gey funny independence.”

      Through this Smiths narrative is all about how previous No voters are thinking again, and how ” questions about borders, currency, and trade tariffs all look very different now.”

      “The SNP will not call a referendum till they’re sure they can win it, but they do believe the march of history is on their side.” (while a pipe band plays.)

      The whole piece oozed of the inevitability of indyref2 and a Yes vote. From Sarah Smith…..with Alex Massie. Not a unionist voice to be heard. For an English audience. The SNP couldn’t have produced a better PP broadcast.

      I’m just back from a few weeks in Catalonia. Had a brilliant time but I think Ryanair dropped me off on the wrong planet. So many astonishing changes, and now this. Ma heid cannae take it.

    66. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oops. How did that get there? 🙂

    67. Still Positive. says:

      Ananhuring @ 11.43

      Yes, I saw that too – totally astonished.

      This EU vote has stirred up many previous ‘No’ voters to switch sides.

      We will prevail.

    68. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ananurhing yeah I saw it as well, thought it was pretty balanced for a change although Jim Fairlie came across as a out of touch old man. Trying to figure out what there at, will be something , maybe in desperation trying to get Nicola to go to early with Indyref2.

      Or maybe they know the game is up and trying to soften up the remnants of the UK so its not a big shock for them when we file for divorce.

    69. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ananurhing @ 23:43,

      Well, that’s a turn-up for the record books. A sign of things to come, mayhap? Maybe someone at the BBC has finally realised that their yoon dyke is about to breach, and is looking for some high ground.

      (You may know this already, but according to Wikipedia, the Jim Fairlie mentioned is ex-SNP and involved with some outfit, The Free Scotland Party, that’s pro-indy but anti-EU. I assume though they would still support another Yes despite the EUref result and not be stupid enough to “cut off their noses to spite their faces”. Would seem like the ideal refuge for Mr. Sillars these days, no…?)

    70. Ananurhing says:

      Aye but….Yeah but….it was the BBC FFS. Sarah Smith?

      Stu you have to get a link to this up as a post. I’m flabbergasted.

    71. defo says:

      Robert J
      I didn’t know the tank commander was up the duff !
      🙂

    72. I have just written to the editor of the Sunday Herald telling him I will be promoting a boycott of the paper.

    73. Training Day says:

      @McEwan Hill

      Glad to see you finally seem to have recognised what the Sunday Herald is.

      And always has been..

    74. Gerry says:

      I just saw it too. Surreal.
      It is indeed the BBC

    75. Grouse Beater says:

      “MPs Reports say BHS retailer’s former owners subjected it to ‘systematic plunder’ and describe the collapse as ‘unacceptable face of capitalism’”

      “Plunder”?

      Well, there’s a thing – I could have told them that. http://wp.me/p4fd9j-7ne

    76. Grouse Beater says:

      “From Sarah Smith…..with Alex Massie. Not a unionist voice to be heard. For an English audience. The SNP couldn’t have produced a better PP broadcast.”

      As I said before, naysayers and unionists will soon be admitting they really, really cared about independence but job, contract, employer pressure, diplomacy, caring for an ill budgie, (delete as required) held them back.

    77. call me dave says:

      SNP to debate new voting system for Holyrood elections

      http://archive.is/xV9XU

      Sturgeon sets out her five Brexit demands for Scotland

      http://archive.is/yvQDw

    78. Onwards says:

      @call me dave says:
      25 July, 2016 at 1:35 am


      Sturgeon sets out her five Brexit demands for Scotland

      http://archive.is/yvQDw

      ———–

      “Our economic interests – safeguarding free movement of labour, access to a single market of 500 million people and the funding that our farmers and universities depend on.”

      ——–

      Free movement of Labour is a big difference from free movement of people. I wonder why this wording was chosen.

      It seems like Sturgeon might hold back on a quick referendum if Scotland can keep the main benefits of the EU. But access to the single market comes with the free movement principle which EU countries are reluctant to backtrack on.

      Perhaps the UK could end up with a compromise on freedom of movement where job offers were needed first, and with some sort of extended time limit for benefit claims like Cameron was offered.
      But I think there will be a lot of resistance to that from countries that don’t want to give special treatment.

      Nicola’s demands do put pressure on the UK to accept a single market deal – knowing that failing to do so will see another referendum called in a couple of year or two – after all reasonable chances were given.

    79. Ken500 says:

      Free movement of people. The Tories are even going to chuck the Brains out of Scotland. It is completely shocking. The Tories/Unionists are one the worst Gov ever. They are despicable. Westminster is a disgrace full of Criminals. Most of them should be in jail. All they do is make people’s lives harder so they and their associates can tax evade.

      The queues at the Channel. Welcome to Brexit. It will soon be impossible to get in and out of England/Wales. It will start to affect trade, goods and services every day. Other routes will open up which will by pass London S/E, causing higher unemployment.

      The Tories have been taxing the Oil sector at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing thousands of jobs. The tax is 40% from January 2016. The Oil sector workers are going to strike because of deteriorating conditions. It will affect Wood Group shares and the Scottish economy. Tory/Unionists who do not support Independence for Scotland. They support illegal Wars and sanctioning and starving the vulnerable.

      Multimillionaire Tory politicians business getting £Millions of local authority contracts funded by public money. Despite repeated warning – overcharging £Millions.

      The Tories must have out a ‘D’ notice in the Chilcot verdict trying to bury it. There has been little reporting or coverage. It will all come out in Court when the Ministry of Defence is sued.

    80. majestic12 says:

      Just catching up and this comment should rightly have been on the last post about the likelihood or not of Trump being president.

      Some years ago I had the pleasure of hosting for the weekend a well-known American radio/tv personality and documentary film-maker. The stuff he told me about Hillary Clinton was truly shocking, and unrepeatable. I am sure HE firmly believed what he was telling me, but I am to this day unsure if I believed what he was telling me.

      But it gives pause for thought. If I were an American voter I might be confused about which of the two candidates was the more monstrous.

    81. brian lucey says:

      http://www.alde.eu/nc/press/press-and-release-news/press-release/article/guy-verhofstadt-parliament-will-block-a-deal-that-creates-a-new-favourable-status-for-the-uk/
      Guy Verhofstadt, leader of the Liberals and Democrats in the European Parliament and ex Belgian PM said today:

      “A deal with these conditions would be unthinkable. It would allow the UK to expand its already very favourable position: keeping the best parts and ridding itself of the obligations that come with it. EU Governments would be mad to agree to such a deal and I can tell you: the European Parliament will never agree to a deal that ‘de facto’ ends the free movement of people for a decade,while giving away an extra rebate in exchange for all the advantages of the internal market.

      What would stop other countries from asking the same exceptional status? Do we really want eurosceptics elsewhere in Europe to invoke the British example of ‘having their cake and eating it’? Everyone can see that this position is irresponsible because it’s not sustainable in the long run.

      The only new relationship between Britain and the European Union can be one in which the UK has an associated status with less obligations but equally less rights. And if this is not feasible, the fall back position will be an ordinary trade agreement between Britain and the UK

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      @Onwards
      I think the 5 demands are a way of detailing what is meant by honouring the 62% Remain vote, so that the 62% can see a genuine attempt to do that while still in the UK.

      It is of course, impossible.

    83. Effijy says:

      Ananurhing says:

      24 July, 2016 at 11:43 pm

      Did anyone else just see Sarah Smith on the BBC 10 o’clock news? I’m astonished. I’ve just rewound and watched it 3 times and my jaw is on the floor.

      For anyone who missed it,

      Sarah Smith reporting on the likelyhood of indyref2 after Brexit from a fancy dress parade in Innerleithen, Strongest No voting area on the mainland, always opposed independence. Pipe band and lots of hilarity.

      She talks to 3 middle aged local voters, 2 of them admit to voting No last time, the third is tacitly No. English No voting lady is now emphatically Yes, Scottish No guy now questions his previous decision, and third lady thinks indyref2 cannot be avoided.

      No token unionists at all were interviewed.

      Hi Anurahing,

      I wonder if the new life breathed into the petition for a public enquiry into BBC Bias has seen the Beeb try to establish a couple of clips ready for their defence in this potential enquiry?

      They just don’t give Scots or Independence an even break at any time, and for them to travel this far must mean a
      need for an alibi is being sought.

      Congratulations to all WoS supporters who have been driving this petition forward.

      89.655 Scots have signed up so far, and so right too!

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    84. ScottieDog says:

      @Macbeda
      I think it’s always a mistake to get pulled in to a game of deficit tennis with people like KH who don’t actually understand macroeconomics.

      Scotland will run whatever deficits it needs in order to stimulate its economy. Our freedom to do that will very much depend on our decisions over currency. A free floating sovereign currency will enable us to spend freely.
      Think on the deficit as a reaction to the state of the non gvernment part of the economy – effectively a shock absorber when the rest of the economy starts to decline. You can’t put a target value on a deficit or national debt. It is what it has to be.
      The claim coming from the flat earthers such as keverage will be that we will face a solvency risk due to burgeoning interest rates. That claim especially over the last 5 years has been shown to be unfounded. He also ignores the fact that the part of our economy with the smallest spending gap – London and SE is strongly connected to the part of our economy which enjoyed an almost £1 TR bailout – the banking sector.

      He also fails to understand that at the aggregate level of an economy , spending IS income. You reduce spending (austerity), you reduce income. With less purchasing power the economy declines. This is what we are seeing today.

      The work of KH deals in statistics, basically deciphering accounts and has nought to do with economics. Engaging with these types is a bit like discussing astronomy pre- Copernicus.

      Here’s a good refreshing economics link..
      http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/09/economy-government-help-hurt.html#more-8598

    85. jdman says:

      Ananurhing
      “Th e only dissenting voice was Jim Fairlie chuntering on about indy in EU being ” A gey funny independence.”

      I take it you didnt notice the almost hysterical nodding fit she broke into wide eyed in gratitude for the mans “gey funny independence” quote, (plant)?

    86. jdman says:

      to me it was a sleekit false flag attempt at provoking an early ref, in the hope it will fail, 0/10 for that one Sarah!

    87. Macart says:

      @jdman

      Good to see you John. Missed the morning round up. 🙂

    88. gordoz says:

      Effigy – Noted the S Smith report from fair on State Broadcaster.

      Interesting stance / welcome.

      D Torrance piece in Herald is again poor and they keep using him (Balance for loss of I Bell ?).
      Come on Scotland you keep supporting this crap. Its repetitive infantile rubbish demeaning of our country (Scotland). Unless your country is a notional politicol canstruct

    89. gordoz says:

      Effigy – Noted the S Smith report from fair on State Broadcaster.

      Interesting stance / welcome.

      D Torrance piece in Herald is again poor and they keep using him (Balance for loss of I Bell ?).
      Come on Scotland you keep supporting this crap. Its repetitive infantile rubbish demeaning of our country (Scotland). Unless your country is a notional political construct called Britain. WTF is wrong with sections o our society.

      Torrance writes pish; all he writes about is that he hates Salmond (again & again)its utter pish.

    90. Macart says:

      @jdman

      RE: Sarah Smith

      Possibly on false flag, but there is absolutely no question about two things in the past month.

      1. The EU ref has brought the issue of HMG/BTs pledge delivery to a head. It is yer actual economic and constitutional crisis and it cannot be laid at the door of the Scottish government or electorate.

      2. The interwebby, social media, and anecdotal evidence of face to face encounters with prior no voters is returning a disturbing pattern for the unionist politician. The response and route of travel is angry, betrayed, resigned and most definitely pro yes.

      As for any intent to goad the FM into jumping the gun succeeding? Heh, that’ll be the day. 🙂

    91. Training Day at 12.53

      No, it wasn’t.

    92. Nana says:

      Links

      FM speech today 11am
      https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/756515153672364033

      http://indyref2.scot/time-to-pull-the-plug

      Theresa May’s plan to slash employment rights and cut workers’ wages in poorer areas revealed
      http://archive.is/nDATh

      NI politicians threaten legal challenge to Brexit
      http://archive.is/hfjsq

    93. liz says:

      @Effigy – I am not criticising your hard work but has any petition from 38 degrees ever achieved it’s purpose?

      The gov does not have any reason to listen no matter how many sigs you get.

    94. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I too was somewhat surprised at Sarah Smith’s piece on last night’s Ten o’ Clock News. However, it was obvious, the only pro-independence voices were those of the people in the vox pop who had changed their minds over the course of the two referendums and the GE. She did not speak to anyone from the SNP or from Yes Scotland.

      BBC balance – Aye Right!

      This is off-topic, but, I read a piece by Libby Brooks in the Guardian, in which she suggests Trump is about to resume his fight to have the wind-farm which he believes destroys the view from his Aberdeenshire golf course abandoned.

      Why then, did I have this vision of President Trump ordering the US forces into Scotland to enforce regime change on us? This of course would see the quines of Aberdeenshire cause the abject surrender of the GIs, using the same nefarious tactics their great-grand-mothers used on the great-grand-fathers of the US forces during WWII.

    95. Ken500 says:

      Unionists who want to pay no tax in the UK but live off the backs of others while Scottish taxes are wasted by Westminster.

      £13Billion+ a year which could be better spent to grow the Scottish economy.

      The Scottish Gov should not give any more public money to ACC to waste and ruin and destroy the City with grotesque projects the majority do not want. How it gets through planining is a mystery. The majority are furious with the mess they are making. The majority want pedestrianisation and open spaces. Labour/Unionists/Green are creating a appalling concrete jungle. Not seen since Sewel, the coke addict’s, Berdero scheme.

      Willy Young has built a ‘white elephant’ bridge crossing. Cars can’t go straight ahead. It takes longer. Wasting £Millions. The AWPR will relieve the traffic. Wasting £Millions in his own constituency. They are planning to build a Conference Centre wasting even more £Millions in Barney Crocket’s constituency. They are try to illegally buy votes. Graft and corruption.

      The AECC is under used doesn’t pay. £26Million of debt had to be paid off with public money. They are a complete and utter disgrace. Getting the City into £Millions of (lease) debt but claiming there is not enough money for essential services. They are trying to cut Education and shut essential bases. They are 138 teachers short.

      They refused to go ahead with the UTG Project which with an exit to the Green would have predstrianised the City and been £Millions cheaper to construct. They are causing traffic chaos in the City closing off essential roads because of their appalling schemes, By building a grotesque monstrosity mess in the City Centre. They are destroying the City Centre and wasting £Million/Billion of public money against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      The Scottish Gov should not give them any more money to waste. These Parties support a Westminster Gov whose policies have destroyed the NE /world economy. Taxing Oil sector at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%. Now Brexit. The Tories lied to win an election. Committed electoral fraud, and nothing has been done about it. They are ruining the world economy. Westminster are trying to cover up the Chilcot Verdict. Along with the rest Labour/Unionist liars. A desperate attempted last resort. Incompetent, useless, ignorant liars.

      May 2017.

    96. galamcennalath says:

      Nicola’s five points seem fair and reasonable to me (but they would).

      They reflect what remain maint without actually stating ‘remain fully in the EU’.

      Not only will they be unacceptable to WM Brexiteers, they are actually at odds with their objectives.

      For example, “ensuring the continued protection of workers’ and wider human rights”, which is explicitly what Tories want to remove.

      Or, “making sure that we don’t just have to abide by the rules of the single market but also have a say in shaping them”, which it is hard to see working if you don’t have MEPs etc in Brussels!

      The WM response should give a good indicator as to how events will unfold.

    97. galamcennalath says:

      England is on a path. They chose Brexit and at the General Election over half of English voters chose Tory+UKIP.

      Their choice, their problem as we see it but opportunity as they see it.

      But here is the issue. We could wish them well on their journey and stay amicably in touch, however the imperialist elements of Greater England expect ourselves (and Northern Ireland) to walk with them into their imagined future.

      They have to accept that they have just voted for their independence and that has to mean they go their own way and make their own future!

    98. Fred says:

      Anent Sarah Smith, a chip off the old block-head! Obviously cut her mouth on a bottle!

    99. Effijy says:

      liz says:

      25 July, 2016 at 9:38 am

      @Effigy – I am not criticising your hard work but has any petition from 38 degrees ever achieved it’s purpose?

      The gov does not have any reason to listen no matter how many sigs you get.

      Hi Liz, The answer is Yes, it has had some success in the past, although many do fall into an abyss.

      If we can get 90,000 or 100,000 signatures, how does the BBC then try to skew the numbers like they do every time there is a physical protest, i.e. “Around 200 protesters turned up outside of Pacific Quay” Actual 2,000 plus.

      It helps me and any Independence supporting Party, or commentators prove that the BBC is Blatantly Biased.

      90,000+ people registering complaint has got to prove our claims are not without good cause against them.

      At worst it may tone them down, but how I’d love Prof John Robertson/G A Ponsanby to tear them apart at a Public Enquiry.

      We must protest and expose these exploits at each and every opportunity.

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    100. Andrew McLean says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:

      A Boycott can turn into SNP bad for wanting to quieten the rights of the press, The Herald can print what it likes, in fact the more nonsense the worst it will be for them if again and again they are shown to be wrong, biased and lazy.

      The Rev, shows us the way, hold them to account, personally I think you a fool if you give them money, and that includes click-bate. Starve them of the oxygen they need, but don’t promote them to the status of victim or martyrs for free speech, you will lose that argument.
      After you defence of the National and all?

    101. liz says:

      @Effigy – OK good luck, I hope it is successful

    102. Legerwood says:

      Reports in the papers today that Theresa May does not want border checks between NI and the Republic. Does not think they are necessary.

      One to squirrel away for the next Unionist bleat about ‘hard’ borders when Scotland becomes independent.

    103. Naina Tal says:

      King of facts? surely Knave of facts?

    104. Thankfully I don’t use twitter, I read enough nonsense from the unionists who write into my local newspapers.

      I also believe a boycott of the Sunday Herald would be counter productive.

      We would have the unionists claiming we trying to sensor free speech and prevent the publication of ‘facts’ that don’t suit our agenda.

      An example of this is of a unionist in one of my local newspapers who accused me of not only denying him the right to be a unionist but also his democratic right to vote to leave the EU.

    105. DerekM says:

      What a pair of lying plonkers.

      Gers boohoo why want you evil nats believe me anymore ?

      Probably because Kev you are a thicko that believes all the shit you get told from lying spiv westminster politicians.

      Basic economics lmao

    106. call me dave says:

      “One of the most shameful abdications of responsibility in modern political history”

      https://archive.is/5ANT9

      Westminster rules…Aye right! 🙂

      https://archive.is/Zu46I

    107. Stoker says:

      liz (@ 11:18 am)

      I have used the following link to write and ask for clarification on one or two points which i think we both suspect:
      How Petitions Work
      https://petition.parliament.uk/help

      Should i ever receive any response on the issues i shall bring it to WOS for all to see. The link above seems to make it perfectly clear, as you stated, that they are under no obligation to entertain any petition.

      They also seem to have, just like the BBC, a number of wide ranging get out clauses on which grounds they can reject any petition. This list includes at least one condition where they are almost guaranteed to reject the ’38 Degrees’ petition:

      “potentially confidential, commercially sensitive or might cause someone distress or financial loss”

      I remember there being a very similar clause in the ‘Smith Commission’ submission rules.

      I’ll also bring to the attention of Wingers the section on ‘The Petitions Committee’ and its make up etc, nuff said!

      Meanwhile, i too wish “Effijy” all the best of luck as i, just like many others, signed that petition a million moons ago, but it will still get us nowhere, i would love to be proved wrong.

      BTW, no petition has ever been successful for our movement. I’ve asked “Effijy” for proof of any and i’m still waiting. I firmly believe these commercial ‘petition’ companies to be cons who’s main aim is to gather the private details of individuals for marketing purposes etc.

      Time will tell and i for one can’t wait for “Effijy”, or anyone else for that matter, to come back at me and prove me wrong. Will not be holding my breath though and maybe then we can bury this petition nonsense once and for all.

    108. Soutron says:

      That’s it ScottieDog, it’s impossible to win an argument with neoliberals/monetarists when you let them dictate the terms of debate. It’s something you see all the time, even from the Greens/SNP/Corbanites (even with the best intentions).

      Arbitrary deficit/surplus targets are totally backwards. We’ve been taught to look at the equation from a totally inverted perspective where deficit is the focus. Full employment/acceptable inflation should be the target…whatever deficit is required to meet those aims is the correct deficit.

      This is separate from left vs right. Depending on your politics that deficit can be controlled either through taxation (reducing it to encourage demand) or spending (increasing it to encourage demand..or vice versa.

    109. mike cassidy says:

      For connoisseurs of WTF abuse –

      Owen Normal Smith on the receiving end of this WTF.

      http://archive.is/anvXS

    110. Nana says:

      Rumour at mill. Kez has backed the wrong horse, again

      https://twitter.com/Johnvoteyes/status/757480786949992448?lang=en-gb

    111. galamcennalath says:

      The Express …

      “Nicola Sturgeon’s bid to BLACKMAIL UK with her FIVE demands to keep Scotland linked to EU”

      Made me laugh. They don’t get it. We have a solution to the problem on the table which will deliver the five criteria, Indy.

      If anyone thinks they can come up with an alternative solution which could achieve those within the U.K., now is the time to speak out with proposals!

      Nicola has kicked the ball well into WM’s court.

    112. heedtracker says:

      Lunchtime in planet toryboy. Has Kevin been in to skelp the back of our legs yet?

      Funny how same UKOK red tories dont complain about the full on BBC monstering of JC/full on BBC you love Whatisface Owen don’t you brainwashing

      Duncan Hothersall Retweeted

      Kevin Schofield ?@PolhomeEditor 6h6 hours ago

      Kevin Schofield Retweeted JOHN NICOLSON M.P.
      Why are SNP people on here among Jeremy Corbyn’s biggest defenders? It really is a mystery.Kevin Schofield added,

      JOHN NICOLSON M.P. @MrJohnNicolson
      Talking on @bbcthisweek about the visceral loathing felt by many Labour MPs for Jeremy Corbyn, https://twitter.com/bbcthisweek/status/757148152176574464
      58 retweets 61 likes

    113. heedtracker says:

      Staggering BBC r4 Thatcher 2’s wonderful lunchtime propaganda broadcast right the noo/SNP bad. Thatcher 2’s the new saviour of teamGb but to quote Frankie Boyle,

      “The Tories are currently brain-storming how to cherry pick the absolute worst parts of EU membership while jettisoning all that stuff about human rights and environmental standards.

      For the left-wing Brexit voter,this is going to be like sending your Christmas list up the chimney and finding the only wish you’re granted is the wheezing old stranger watching you sleep.

      And let’s pause for a moment to imagine how badly Johnson, Davis and Fox are going to play with Europe’s technocratic negotiators. Soon a UK citizen’s best chance of getting an EU passport will be showing Islamic State’s forgery department a full HGV license.”

      Reality and BBC toryboy attack propagandists do live on different planets.

    114. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Goldie on Parliament rubbishing the SNP and catty remark on Nicolas shoes going round the EU parliament. Getting above her station etc
      Goldie talking about unelected EU officials. She obviously doesn’t do irony.
      There must be no place for these people in any official capacity in a independent Scotland.
      Lord wittby labour praising Nicola. Goldie face like thunder b

    115. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Goldie on Parliament rubbishing the SNP and catty remark on Nicolas shoes going round the EU parliament. Getting above her station etc
      Goldie talking about unelected EU officials. She obviously doesn’t do irony.
      There must be no place for these people in any official capacity in a independent Scotland.
      Lord wittby labour praising Nicola. Goldie face like thunder.

    116. scotspine says:

      Just heard that MSP Fraser (he of the Queens 11) giving his pearls of wisdom on BBC Fort George.

      Tells Johnny Beattie that its up to FM to come up with proposals to secure Scotlands interests in EU (i.e its not “our” problem and “we” dont need to put forward any ideas) and “she” (FM) must remember that she isnt at the negotiating table.

      Im sure I heard Beattie snigger.

      But I reckon he just made the case for independence himself there.

      Get back in yer box Scotland.

    117. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      As the FM pointed out in her address this morning, ‘Scotland did not ask for this situation, but it is where we find ourselves.’

      The UK which many no voters in Scotland voted for, no longer exists and indeed cannot now exist. That particular pledge hasn’t just been broken, its been shattered beyond any hope of spin or fudge to address.

      I’m sure these folks didn’t vote for isolationism or xenophobia. Don’t think they’d vote for closed borders and restrictions on trade. I’m pretty certain they wouldn’t have voted to have their democratic rights rewritten by a conservative government or to see pretty much every other pledge made to them during the first indyref broken or fudged.

      No one in Scotland who voted YES or NO asked for us to be where we are today, but THAT is the reality of the situation 23 months on.

      We can still change it. All people have to do is make their wish known in enough numbers to the Scottish Government.

    118. mealer says:

      This might be a good time for someone to post a link to Alyn Smiths speech in the European Parliament.

    119. Vestas says:

      People should be aware that if you give 38degrees your email address then you WILL be spammed day in day out.

      They will NOT remove that address either – it may appear they have but wait a month or so & the deluge of spam starts again. ICO has lots of complaints about them BTW.

      Also there’s regulations regarding the use of .org.uk domains – basically its only for non-profit organisations. 38degrees is nothing of the sort – its a limited company, not a charity or the like.

      Lastly I’d recommend not having anything to do with 38degrees because they’re all basically labour bag carriers (ie PPE scum) – watch how many of them become spads & then MPs in years to come.

      YMMV of course.

      The petition is a worthwhile thing but whoever initially put it on 38degrees is a moron.

    120. heedtracker says:

      O/T but a progressive liberal glimmer of light escapes from the heart of toryboy UKOK darkness. Daily Heil would horse whip you for even thinking out loud…

      Chris Deerin ?@chrisdeerin 17h17 hours ago
      Gay adoption in Scotland – a love story. Crack on, please

    121. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun Sturgeon speech reportage usual creepy as feck but this should shiver a few Pacific Quay timbers. BBC Scotland expend endless hours and hours of SNPbad, SNP’s so terrible at running our Scotland region, cops, NHS, schools and everything else stuff.

      “Leave campaigners may have played the anti-immigration card to the point, at times, of overt racism. But 17 million leave voters were not racist – nor even in many cases anti-immigration.”

      Insisting she would listen to the 1 million Scottish voters who did vote to leave the EU, she suggested that a partial explanation for why the result was different north of the border lay in the explanation that the vote reflected a loss of confidence and trust in UK institutions, while trust in the Scottish government remained high.”

      Eleanor Bradford is unwell.

    122. Inkall says:

      @Mike cassidy

      What a nutter. Sadly one of a type that seems to be all too common when discussions of domestic violence and misogyny crop up.

    123. terry says:

      HOW TO WIN OVER A LOT OF “NO” VOTERS WITHOUT HARDLY TRYING.
      Suggest they listen to LBC. But don’t tell them the following – There’s a nice smattering of genuine Corbynistas however most are right wing, arrogant europhobes and the tone of the anti-immigrant ukip mob is distasteful. They would make Farage blush. They don’t give a jot about Scotland and it clearly shows how different the two countries are.

      Another is the so-called leftist Guardian comments pages – for a taste of this check what they are saying about Nichola’s speech today – http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/25/sturgeon-independence-may-be-best-for-scotland-amid-brexit-upheaval

      Failing that my fave short, sharp reflection on Independence is to say, “So you think an indy Scotland would be like Greece without the oil? More like Norway but WITH the whisky.” That shuts them up. it really is a no brainer

    124. heedtracker says:

      Here’s my girl. Uni hols are pretty long to be fair so have at it Adam.

      Abiesalba Magnusson 40m ago

      8
      9
      It would be impossible for the UK to argue this because all evidence suggests that EU migrants are net contributors.

      Exactly.

      Theresa May was the Home Secretary in charge of UK immigration issues from 12 May 2010 to 13 July 2016.

      During this period, the EU has repeatedly requested evidence from the UK about the alleged benefit tourism (which the UK government was abundantly using in its rhetoric):

      Benefit tourism claims: European Commission urges UK to provide evidence (BBC, 2013)

      The UK government has consistently declined to provide evidence to support its claims about “benefit tourism”, the European Commission has said.

      Spokesman Jonathan Todd told the BBC the Commission had been asking for more than three years for the figures.

      “One can but sincerely hope” for ministers to set the record straight, he said.

      May as the Home Secretary (= the minister of home affairs) NEVER set the record straight.

      So the UK government (with May as the Home Secretary) has been fabricating ‘enemies of the nation’ where none exist for YEARS!

    125. Iain More says:

      OT

      Well it looks like the EBC and other nasty elements of the Brit Press and Media are already fighting the next Indy Ref even though the starting gun hasn’t been fired on it yet. Reaches for the off button quick.

    126. Stoker says:

      Hi terry (@ 2:13 pm):

      Please archive your links to BUM rags. By archiving you prevent helping them to pull in advertising revenue. You also prevent them changing the wording to the article at a later date. If you don’t know how to archive just say the word and one of us will help. If you can’t archive due to being on a certain type of device then please consider typing the general gist of the article in question, with quotes, rather than posting direct links.
      _____

      The World’s 100 Most Powerful Women
      http://www.forbes.com/power-women/#/tab:overall

      Oor Nicola is at No50, no bad for a wee lassie fae Irvine, eh!
      And she hasn’t even reached her full potential yet.

      pssst, Whisper it, but the neighbour at No10 has been shunned!
      🙂

    127. Lochside says:

      Scotspine@….’johnny Beattie? of BBC?….not to be confused with doddery stupid fud who blunders about talking shite and well past his sell by date with the respected and now retired Scottish artiste late of ‘River City’.

    128. cearc says:

      Stoker and Liz,

      ‘…who’s main aim is to gather the private details of individuals for marketing purposes etc. ‘

      Absolutely agree. I see no point in signing government petitions on a commercial site and don’t do it. If you want to petition a government why not use their own petition website?

    129. Valerie says:

      Interesting that important stuff going on at Holyrood, despite on recess.

      Joan McAlpine is chairing a committee taking wide ran going evidence of impact of Brexit on various such as Unis, whiskey, Virgin money etc.

      Another plank, getting support from business and institutions by getting them to articulate their losses from Brexit.

      The no border stuff from May over in NI, neatly makes the argument for us, and should shut down the hard Border and trade nonsense for us being independent.

      I wonder what folk made of the 12 mile queues of traffic to Dover at the weekend. What a nightmare it looked

      Official responses were saying – oh,but it’s heightened security following Nice attacks. Then it was reported, at times there was one guy checking passports!

    130. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Every time I hear the term Queens 11. I piss myself. Delusional self importance.

    131. Effijy says:

      Vestas says:

      25 July, 2016 at 1:30 pm

      People should be aware that if you give 38degrees your email address then you WILL be spammed day in day out.

      Hi Vesta! Doesn’t look like I’m currying favour with you?
      lol

      I tried out the option to unsubscribe from another e-mail that they sent me, and I’ve had nothing since.

      I agree that their politics do appear Left of Centre, and that’s where my own politics sit.

      Blairite Labour are of course Right Wing, and soon to split the party in two, if not three?

      Say what you will be there are close on 90,000 registered
      petitioners all campaigning against Blatant BBC Bias.

      Everyone fighting for a fair and balanced national (Scottish) news channel can point to this number as BBC
      in denial tries to go into cover up mode.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Nicola did make reference to what the general public think of their deceptions.

      Our Irish Cousins willingly accepted their almost certain death in taking up arms against Westminster.

      Please don’t think that you are taking some kind of equal risk by potentially receiving an unsolicited e-mail from them!
      You only need Press Delete or Click the Unsubscribe Button!

      Join the other 89,675 people who are Standing up against the BBC’s tirade of corrupt propaganda!

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    132. Chic McGregor says:

      Benefit tourism will be set to increase after Brexit because the rUK will be the only country Europeans on benefit can afford to holiday int.

    133. Legerwood says:

      Stoker @ 2.48 pm

      Re the Forbes list of Powerful Women.

      I think the list was published before she became PM hence her absence from the list.

      Although she may not make the next list if her performance as PM is as woeful as her performance as Home Secretary.

    134. heedtracker says:

      Neat summary on the what and who of GERS btl Graun there. Fiscal transfers next:D

      jfngw Abiesalba 2h ago

      16
      17
      GERS is not the Scottish Governments own data, it is the data published by the Scottish Government which is substantially provided by the UK Treasury. The only data the SG can provide is the how the allocation of the block grant is being spent. It can modify this data to reflect what they believe is the value to Scotland, but that doesn’t mean the UK still doesn’t allocate the full spending to Scotland, The undefined UK spending in GERS is quite large.

      Also you quote the exports from Scotland to the UK, but the value of the imports to Scotland from the rest of the UK is actually higher (Scotland buys more than it sells). So an imposition of tariffs would, in value, cost the rest of the UK more in dealing with Scotland. The likelihood of trade stopping is not realistic any more so than there will be no trade between the UK and the EU.

      And although you will no doubt post reams of cut and paste, the decision will be political, the rules will take second place as it has in the past with the EU. I’m not saying they will be admitted, but that you will not be the arbiter.

    135. MJT says:

      I watched the FM’s address and Q&A live on Youtube and I thought she was being thoughtful, sensible and pragmatic. Her tone was calm, unthreatening and far from incendiary.

      She comes across as someone who knows what she’s doing and is prepared to work with other people/parties towards solutions…and of course she’d not be doing her job if she didn’t point out that her priorities are the Scottish People and Scotland’s interests.

      She didn’t harp on about Independence, she didn’t call for a referendum, and to be honest i was hoping she might be a bit more forthright in that regard, but I have to say she is a very able stateswoman and by far and away the best, most skilled politician in the UK.

      And as I’m watching her speak and answer questions in good spirits and with due respect I was thinking I wonder what the the media will make of this? How will they spin it, cos she’s not really giving them that much to work with…she’s just doing her job – well. She’s not even really having a go at anyone.

      But you can never discount the vested interests and mental midgetry of our tawdry mainstream media, and the hollowed out unionist status quo 4eva twitterati.

    136. K1 says:

      Heed, I’m finding it increasingly difficult tae follow yer line of post…whether what you are saying is ‘you’ saying it or your ‘quoting’ other’s, could ye distinguish a bit mair clearly when yer commenting, for those of us who are hard of reading? 😉

    137. Glamaig says:

      Ananurhing says:
      24 July, 2016 at 11:43 pm

      ‘Did anyone else just see Sarah Smith on the BBC 10 o’clock news? I’m astonished. I’ve just rewound and watched it 3 times and my jaw is on the floor.’

      remarkable for several reasons:
      1. a BBC vox pop without unionists
      2. Sarah Smith was hilarious when interviewing Jim Fairlie. Excited nodding and big doe eyes. I thought she was going to mount him.
      3. I find it quite incredible that someone who was in the SNP for decades(?) through the times when independence seemed a far off dream, yet never gave up, and is now presented with an odds-on chance of an independent Scotland within the next 2 years, would actually vote against it because it means being in the EU. WTF????
      4. Jim’s argument that the EU makes some laws for us so its not independence sounds jaw-droppingly stupid, he would prefer Westminster rule??? Really??? The EU is good enough for 27 other countries, some of which actually fought real wars to gain their independence.

    138. Vestas says:

      @ heedtracker : “Here’s my girl. Uni hols are pretty long to be fair so have at it Adam.

      Abiesalba”

      You just KNOW its game on for indyref2 when the tory slovenian unionist is back on the Grauniad 😀

      Was he posing as gay or trans last time BTW? I can’t remember & I don’t want to smear two groups of decent people by associating both of them with his slime by getting it wrong 😉

    139. Vestas says:

      @ Effijy

      I know exactly how 38degrees spam list works & I can assure you that you’ll find yourself being spammed again soon.

      As far as 38degrees being “left-wing” – no they’re not. They are red tory scum, same as the rest of Labour – and no Corbyn isn’t even remotely left-wing, he was in the centre-wing of the party before Blair made Labour pointless by out-torying the tories.

      You keep pushing your Labour stuff by all means but don’t try to dress 38degrees up as anything other than labour wannabees.

    140. jcd says:

      Sorry o/t weather Saturday 30th, fairish/cloudy, good chance of a couple of showers but not a washout which will help.

      What would help more would be if some means of utilizing methods of mass communication to advertise events like these were to be put to use. Punting notification of it around online, word of mouth will bring in a few thousand – anywhere from 1500 to 5000 – but probably not much more.

      Makes it too easy for bbc etc to talk about “several hundred” and “the hard core” and “zealots” etc.

      Imagine if it was 20,000. That would shut them up and everyone in the city centre that day would know that something big and pro indy was going down.

      Glasgow voted Yes and it wouldn’t be hard to get 20,000 people from the Glasgow/Greater Glasgow area to show up IF THEY KNEW ABOUT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    141. galamcennalath says:

      Stoker says:

      “The World’s 100 Most Powerful Women
      http://www.forbes.com/power-women/#/tab:overall
      Oor Nicola is at No50″

      An interesting twist there. If you filter by country, Scotland is an option and up comes just Nicola.

      If you the filter by United Kingdom six women appear. Liz Windsor at 29. The others at 59 or below. No Nicola.

      Forbes clearly sees just over the horizon, there 😉

    142. call me dave says:

      Labour MSP (David Stewart? I think I heard) had a long interview about Sturgeon’s latest speech on radio shortbread and said a lot about not very much, twice avoiding the question “is independence an option”

      They dare not speak these words but urge Sturgeon to look after Scotland’s interests, while they hold her red jaicket, and Sturgeon to get involved in the EU negotiations with those nasty tories darn Sarf.

      But reminded auntie that the 38% who voted ‘leave’ must be respected and that the 55% of those who voted ‘No in 2014’ must not be forgotten.

      Where’s Deputy Dugdale to clear up the matter?

      PS:

      Sorry state of the real Labour party

      https://archive.is/4dJzt

    143. ScottishPsyche says:

      The FM came across as measured and sensible – you could sense the frustration of the journalists as they tried to get her to commit to Indyref2.

      I listened to Murdo Fraser on John Beattie’s show. The tack now is now to Yoonsplain the thought processes of the FM and SNP – ‘Of course they say one thing but what they really mean is…’

      I also made the mistake of clicking on a Scottish Express article about the FM setting out to ‘blackmail the UK’- I read some of the BTL comments!

      The sheer unadulterated hate towards the FM from criticising her personal appearance to questioning her mental state. It makes you feel quite ill and it is a mistake I won’t make again.

    144. K1 says:

      After the 38 degrees petition was hijacked by Gordon Brown after the referendum and allowed to do so by 38 degrees, I immediately contacted them and asked for my name and details to be removed from their database after explaining to them in very strong terms my absolute disgust that this petition had been railroaded by that craven and despicable man Brown.

      They removed me from the database and I’ve received nothing from them since.

      I will never sign a 38 degree petition again. That petition that I’m referring to was signed in good faith by a vast swathe of Yes voters and that fuckwit Brown made out that he’d gotten it together to push the case for hurrying Cameron et al along regarding the ‘Vow’.

      I would put money on it there was not a single signature from anyone who voted No on that petition and there was Brown who’s ‘intervention’ and ‘home rule’ schtick having helped to secure the No vote…effectively utilising the voices of those who knew the lies that they had all told, to save his own reputation after he’d realised that EVEL meant that the Tories had effectively fucked over the Labour party as well as the people of Scotland with that announcement on the morning of the 19th September.

      That meant that petition was a lie…and a big one at that. Those who voted No, could not give a toss whether some commission was going to be set up to give Scotland new powers or ‘home rule’, it was the SNP who rightfully, pursued this point that there were some who had been frightened by threats to their pensions and other well judged cynical campaigning on the part of Darlling and Brown Better Together et al.

      I will never trust 38 degrees. They are shower of shite imo. I will never disseminate any of their petitions, good causes or not. They revealed who they were for me in September 2014: Zero integrity, Zero respect for those who signed that petition, Zero courage in not owning up to it publicly.

      That earns them: Zero respect…right deserved.

    145. galamcennalath says:

      call me dave says:

      “Labour MSP …. reminded auntie that … the 55% of those who voted ‘No in 2014’ must not be forgotten.”

      Guys like this need to come to terms with the reality that IndyRef2 will be run for the benefit of a fair chunk of that 55% because they are ones who have been let down with non delivery of what they voted for first time!

      All those lists of broken promises flying around highlight where we are. Those were made to NO voters more than anyone. They are ones who are right to feel most aggrieved now. They bought into UKOK including rapidly evaporating EU memebership.

    146. heedtracker says:

      K1

      Will do!

      Vestas

      Abiesalba”

      You just KNOW its game on for indyref2 when the tory slovenian unionist is back on the Grauniad

      I know right it:D Its going to be great too. Yoon culture shot its bolt completely 2014 and they wont know what hit them this time.

      Also, if I type “Slovene girlfriend” in chrome, I get ads in facebook for hols in Slovenia. It looks stunning. Must save up and visit the country and the UKOK BetterTogether Slovenia branch, with a Naw Thanks poster in the window.

    147. Les Wilson says:

      Video of Nicola’s speech already gone from any place I can find, even the archived one from the rev’s twitter feed.
      Words missing on text of it. Wow, they are quick at such things must have a department on to anything she says.

      Just shows though just how scared they are, bring it on.
      This time will be different. The swell is getting bigger.

    148. Les Wilson says:

      Not on youtube either!!

    149. Les Wilson says:

      Considering that Nicola’s speech seems to be missing into the ether. Should it not be made normal for the SNP to ensure there is a independent filming of her speeches. Then put on the Scottish Parliament video archive.This to be spread across social media.

      One way to get some exposure as removing and or heavily editing by the yoons need to be addressed somehow.

    150. Smallaxe says:

      @ Les Wilson,

      It’s still on Scottish National Party (SNP) Facebook page and
      it”s a YouTube video:-)

    151. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Queen st station to open a day early. SNP baaaaaad.

    152. Nana says:

      @Les Wilson

      Try this, not sure if the whole speech is here.

      https://twitter.com/IPPRScotland/status/757531151279980544

    153. Vambomarbeleye says:

      The Brain family on the line again. Apparently they need a job to stay. They had a job offer which was then withdrawn or some thing like that. Or it was the wrong type of job because it was a community run distillery
      Bloody scandal. We should get a crowed up there. Same as was done during the Glasgow rent riots.

    154. Macart says:

      FMs speech on IPPR website.

      http://www.ippr.org/scotland

    155. Balaaargh says:

      Came him tonight to a leaflet stuck in my letterbox. Those nice people at Scotland in Union and their pleas for no more referendums! It’s too much, they say! 20 Months isn’t a generation, they say!

      The poor Dears can’t cope so let’s just declare UDI and put them out of our misery. (I know, I know)

    156. Effijy says:

      Hi All,

      There is a lot of hocus pocus going around regarding the 38 Degrees petition against Blatant BBC Bias.

      At times I’m wondering if BBC employees are posting here, to try and stop the new momentum behind the campaign??

      Can I reiterate that I think it would be a wonderful tool for those behind Independence for Scotland.

      Who could say that getting 90,000-100,000 signatures and possibly a Public Enquiry might be a bad thing, no matter who started it? We can all use this against our enemies.

      I’d also like to compare the First Minister’s latest petition that she launched just last week.
      The petition hopes to gather 100,000 signatures to revisit
      this appalling waste of money on renewing Trident.

      SNP had e-mailed all of their members, with e-mail address’, to ask for support in signing the Anti Trident petition.
      From a membership of 120,000, it appears that the petition total still hasn’t reached 22,000.

      Recognising that some of these signatures will not have come from SNP members, are we to conclude that less than
      20,000 SNP Members are against Trident renewal????

      With Independence support at over 50% of the electorate, why is it we cannot gather the 100,000 votes required for a Public Enquiry on just about anything?

      This hurts me to say this, but that other English Johnny Buffon, the one on the Car TV show that punched a Director for giving him a cold lunch, gathered over 2,000,000 signatures for his re-instatement where he could bully others.

      I can’t stand the thought that perhaps 170,000 Scots, 8.5%
      of the population, signed up to support Mr Clarkson, while we seem to be afraid of a petition to defend Scottish democracy?

      Scotland needs commitment, actions, and people standing up for themselves, if ever we are to be Independent, and control our own destiny.

      If you want freedom to the same extent that you fancy that cup of tea you can’t be arsed to make, we will be Westminster’s Downtrodden Lackie for ever!

      No one who has a greater dislike of 38 Degrees than Westminster’s BBC, doesn’t have to sign it.

      We can just complain every couple of weeks, as individuals, to the BBC directly, and get their computer generated F*** of letters.
      Keep everything just as they like it, or You something different, something collectively, something that they cannot ignore.

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    157. Capella says:

      Text of Nicola’s speech is on the SNP site, no video as yet:
      http://www.snp.org/scotland_s_future_in_the_eu_speech_to_ippr_scotland

    158. Inverclyder says:

      Just watched the STV news and they had the irrelevant and rotund Coburn from the purple racist party spouting his usual made up bile.

      Coburn told us that before Indyref 1 we knew there would definitely be an EU referendum and the result would be this Brexit mess.

      I did not know that at all did you?!

      You learn something new every day it seems.

    159. ahundredthidiot says:

      effijy

      re low numbers signing trident, BBC or other petitions….I would suggest that a lot of people have their eyes on the big prize at the moment. I don’t believe its apathy, more of a focus.

      This is possibly the best opportunity, in terms of timing, for seizing the initiative in the very real direction of achieving independence in the shorter term – something many thought would take another 20 years.

      I know that if you care about these issues it is frustrating, but when the predator has his or her prey in its sights, all else goes hazy and remains in the perifiral.

    160. Les Wilson says:

      Yeah I got it from SNP email,as others said, on youtube now.
      A search on youtube did not come up with it though.

    161. t42 says:

      K1 says:
      “I will never trust 38 degrees”

      or anyone who promotes it on here. continually.

    162. Almannysbunnet says:

      Nicola’s speech to IPPR Scotland today was on five key areas.
      1. Democratic Interest
      2. Economic Interest
      3. Social Protection
      4. Solidarity
      5. Influence

      The BBC version: Sturgeon sets out 5 Brexit demands. They are

      1. indyref2
      2. indyref2
      3. indyref2
      4. indyref2
      5. indyref2

      This has morphed into “Sturgeon’s blackmail list” in the usual suspect newspapers. SNP baaaad x 5!

    163. galamcennalath says:

      Inverclyder says:

      “Coburn … before Indyref 1 we knew there would definitely be an EU referendum and the result would be this Brexit mess.”

      Asshole! We ‘knew’ a yes vote would mean no EU for Scotland, or that is what they actually said.

      Someone who is good at ‘copy and paste video’, or however it is done, is needing to make up short 1-3 min videos of 5-10 sec snapshots of all the BT false statements and promises … like the infamous Davidson one saying Yes means Leave.

      All the offers of devosupermax, all the EU warnings, renewables, jobs, ships … It must all be out there just waiting to be edited into short very sharp sequences.

      Everytime one of these idiots tries to rewrite history they can be referred to them. The truth is there in the mouths of the liars.

      We are where we are because they lied in the campaign for the now discredited IndyRef1, not because the English voted for Brexit.

    164. Slightly OT

      ‘Right to Buy’ will end for all council and housing association tenants in Scotland on 1 August 2016.

      my own opinion is,

      if you have the RTB put in an application,

      you will get an offer from Council which will include discount,

      after offer you have 2 months to either accept or decline offer,

      Application,

      http://www.gov.scot/resource/doc/342902/0114124.pdf

    165. jockmcx says:

      FM’s full speech including QandA’s…on youtube.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMbf0JQn4gA

    166. Naina Tal says:

      Effigy:
      Good luck with all your efforts. For what it’s worth I won’t have anything to do with 38degrees after what they did in indyref1. The trouble I had getting them to remove my name and stop sending me emails.

      Already signed the other one. Hope many more people can do likewise and rid us of this lethal junk. 120,000 members. Surely most of them just haven’t got around to it yet? Is there a way to sign off line?

      Perhaps the fact it’s on the SNP site puts some people off? One thing’s for sure: If it Doesn’t get a humungus number of signatures our opposition, especially BBC will use it relentlessy against us, and leave Nicola with des oeufs sur le visage.

    167. Dal Riata says:

      From RT:

      “Sturgeon’s Tory opponent Murdo Fraser MSP replied to her speech, saying: “Scotland does not want to go through the division and upheaval of another independence vote. Instead, the Scottish government should be working hard to make the best of this, not shoehorning its narrow agenda into almost anything it can.””

      More comedy gold from Turd O’ Fraser, FFS!

      Since when did you speak for Scotland, ya unionist Tory lickspittle? Do one, ya tolly, ye!

    168. Dan Huil says:

      @Naina Tal 7:22pm

      Wouldn’t worry about petition numbers. We forget how many people are still web-free.

    169. galamcennalath says:

      WGD’s latest is entitled ‘Not a threat but a promise’.

      That phrase takes me back.

      That is the perfect way to put it. SG are not making any threats, there is a simple solution to get Scotland out of this. As I said above, it’s up to others to come up with an alternative which satisfies.

      I spoke to an English friend, face to face, a week ago. Tory, Leave, Telegraph. So our views have no political overlap. When I suggested this would end in just two ways, Scottish Indy or Brexit cancellation, they were shocked. Totally flummoxed.

      They said those nice guys at the Lords had just put forward a federal plan, what’s wrong with that? I said, been there done that, the Smith Commission could/should have delivered significant change. It didn’t.

      Then, what about the 2014 referendum? Of course I rhymed off a stack of turn arounds. The UK of 2014 has evaporated.

      I pointed out that the SNP has a mandate other parties only dream of, and their mission is to look after Scotland’s interests. Remain almost certainly means remain, I pointed out.

      The moral really is that down south they have no idea about the pace of events and how things change weekly in Scotland. In England they fester in inaction.

    170. yesindyref2 says:

      @galamcennalath
      Sturegon’s (and presumably Advisor council) 5 points are absolutely perfect, and totally designed to send Unionist politicians who pretend to respect the 62% Remain vote into a backside chasing spiral loop. Absolutely brilliant. inspired even.

      @Heed
      Interesting to ee Abiesalba back. Strange woman, I had the feeling at the time she might have been one of the 5% in Slovenia didn’t support Independence in their Referendum, as she (rightly in a lot of ways apart from Tito’s early history) loved Tito’s Yugosalvia.

      @effijy
      Haven’t said anything before, but if you’re going to start alleging that people here who are against 38degrees are some sort of BBC Unionist stooge, think again.

      38degrees was totally exposed at the time of the petition which Brown kidnapped (or set up secretly as a YES voter trap) to support his Vow, spread all over TV and MSM, and about which 38degrees did absolutely nothing. It’s Labour, it’s unionist, and it’s no friend of Indy supporters. I wouldn’t give it space in a doggy poo bin.

    171. JLT says:

      @galamcennalath

      They (England) have to accept that they have just voted for their independence and that has to mean they go their own way and make their own future!

      That Galacennalath …is pretty much spot on. What you stated within that last paragraph is what England have ‘unofficially’ done. They have finally chosen a political future where it seems, they will walk away from the EU, vote in an ‘English’ national party, and believe they can re-create the trading links with the old colonies of the British Empire.

      The truth is for those who voted for that future …is that it’s all pie in the sky.

      First, Scotland and (more surprisingly), Northern Ireland did not vote for that future. They know where the future lies, and it lies with the EU. To even have Northern Ireland considering an even closer relationship with the Republic of Ireland is one of the most surprising (and rather pleasing) aspects of the Brexit vote.

      But if the English electorate truly believe that Scotland is going to toe-the-line and follow England down a Tory-UKIP political agenda, then they are seriously deluding themselves.

      But even more deluding is the belief that the old trading routes of the colonial empire can be revived. To begin with, the likes of Australia, New Zealand and Canada are heavily invested in the political economies of the Pacific Rim. The main focus of trade for those 3 nations (and including the USA) is China, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, India and probably South America. Why would they bother with exporting goods all the way to Britain when it can be done for half the price to the larger markets of SE Asia or South America?

      Also, if Britain believes that it can trade with South America, then one word …Malvinas. Any hope of creating deals with South America will go the same way as that of Gibraltar and Spain. Either Britain gives up (or at least shares) control of the Falkland Islands or it will be told that trade deals will remain pretty slim. You can just imagine the fury of the London media when that idea of sharing control of the Falklands is placed on the table.

      So without the major Dominions, the USA and South America …that leaves Africa. And Britain has a very ropey history with Africa; especially West Central Africa (which is very rich in resources). You see, Britain after Portugal was the 2nd biggest trader in African Slaves to the West Indies and the New World for nearly enough 300 years, and those slaves literally all came from West Africa. West Central Africa will not forget how Britain used its ‘…free trade concepts’ during that period of the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. The idea of re-establishing trade links on the romantic notions of Empire will go down like a lead balloon with African societies.

      So, this ‘trading with the Commonwealth’ is a fantasy. It’s just a whimsical pipedream. Sure Britain will get trade, but not on the level, nor on the grand scale that it imagines. Britain will be a side-bit player in the greater scheme of things.

      So yes …absolutely agree with your statement. The English electorate have voted …but voted for something that in reality, that does not truly exist. And therefore, there is no way that we are returning to the period of the 1880’s where Britain dominated the world trade markets by flexing its muscles through military naval might. For that period is history, and that is where it shall now remain…

    172. Naina Tal says:

      Dan Huil
      Agree with your point about people not being online which is why I posed the question about signing off line.

      I don’t think online petitions achieve much in general. Problem is that this one has the First Minister’s name to it. Open door then for the monstering media and just yir general yoon population.

    173. Dan Huil says:

      Permit me to put it this way: Does anyone in Scotland, other than some intellectually blind britnats, actually believe that the so-called united kingdom can somehow coalesce back into the mythical lovey-dovey god-save-the-queen, one-nation, sceptred isle, let’s-all-hold-hands-and-sing Kumbaya land of hope and glory after all the britnat lies and deceit pored upon the sair heids of the people of Scotland?!

    174. call me dave says:

      @Nana

      Thanks for the Sturgeon link: Speech. 🙂

      The National:
      Australian family face another blow in fight to stay in Scotland as GlenWyvis job offer withdrawn

      https://archive.is/FRfpe

    175. Dal Riata says:

      @Vestas and heedtracker

      Yup, ‘Abiesalba’ is back on the Guardian, back with the ‘Scotland’s shite’/rubbish/pish/hopeless/all-fucked-up-with-no-friends-and-nowhere-to-go 1500-word ‘comments’ that nobody bothers with (tl;dr) except the frothing racists and nutjobs… and all the way from Glas/… sorry, Slovenia too! Such dedication to the cause from a prof/…sorry, person from Slovenia! All rather odd.

      Anyway, I am a dedicated hater of Abiesalba (Sorry, heed. it being your burd’n’all!) for having had me put on the Guardian’s naughty-step (99% sure), not once, but twice!

      But will Abiesalba’s true identity ever be revealed…? As if we don’t know, of course. It’s a bit like the Marvel comics where Batman’s real first name is Adam…

    176. Murdo Fraser is a Member of the `Scottish Parliament` not the Brutish Parliament,

      he like all MSP`s are there to promote and protect the citizens of Scotland,

      and yet he spends all his time attacking his own country and countrymen/women,

      he is not only a Tory but a delusional Brutish Nationalist of the worst kind,

      he is harming Scotland not protecting it.

    177. Andrew McLean at 10.47

      My defence of the National continues. It is improving continuously with many interesting articles of much wider Scottish interest every day.

    178. Tam Jardine says:

      Terry mentioned up the thread the comments section of the Guardian’s piece today following Nicola’s speech.

      The vast majority of comments are anti-Nicola Sturgeon, anti-Scottish or a combination of the two and that is what we have grown to expect. It has become normal. You could trawl Wings BTL for article after article and not find a fraction of the bile below this single article (in the Guardian FFS) and we are meant to be the vile cybernats!

      The Guardian- that bastian of left-of-centre progressive political discussion now has a slightly more intelligent version of the Express comments BTL on articles concerning Scotland.

      This seems to have intensified since the EU vote. The prospect of Scotland remaining in the EU is driving some people in England even more angry with us.

      Can’t they just let us move on? Can’t they just be happy that we are moving forward and doing our own thing? All I read are people telling us we are unable to survive on our own and no-one in the EU would want us anyway.

      If everything comes together as we hope and we simply take over the UK membership of the EU will we expect to see England and Wales turning up pissed at 2AM and howling abuse? Or will they start a new union with someone completely unsuitable like Albania just to get back at us?

      Jesus- they’ve made a decision to move out and they can’t comprehend we are staying and taking on the lease. If our time together meant anything… if something, anything of the love bombing of 2014 was true then just be happy for us. We just want to be friends.

    179. galamcennalath says:

      JLT says:

      “… trade with South America, then one word …Malvinas. Any hope of creating deals with South America will go the same way as that of Gibraltar and Spain.”

      Indeed. It England is to survive in the big bad world outside the EU, it needs to put its diplomatic house in order and resolve the last issues of the Empire. After close to home, allowing Scotland and NI to make their own futures, they need to sort out joint sovereignty with Spain and Argentina.

      Giving up WMDs is another step they need to consider.

      The BritNat fantasists almost certainly have the opposite in mind!

    180. Macart says:

      Well, had a quick scan of the meeja and after thoroughly bleaching my mind, its safe to say they’re having a fair old tiz over the FMs speech at the IPPR.

      They tried their damnedest to spin the most negative, attention grabbing cobblers out of nothing that is a threat to anyone on these islands. Its also safe to say that no matter what the FM says or does they will always put the most negative spin possible on the event.

      As for comments btl? Well I am wondering whether there is a full moon out tonight. Pretty much every ill informed, intolerant, empathy free and not so borderline bigoted comment imaginable is on display.

      You’d almost imagine the FM had declared war instead of basically saying her job is to protect the Scottish electorate’s interests. Which, y’know, it kinda is.

      Even after the political and economic catastrophe that is Brexit, neither the Westminster parliamentary parties nor their attack dogs in the media have learnt a lesson. The UK is the laughing stock of world politics and the economy is well within the arena of a soft recession and may be on the brink of worse. There is still no brexit plan in the offing and their political parties are still effectively awol.

      Somehow though, somehow they have time to demonize the only party and devolved government who had the wit to act decisively and positively in the aftermath of the carnage created by the greatest act of self harm in the UKs political history.

      Awe inspiring arrogance and weapons grade metrocentric fuckwittery writ large.

      Westminster will be Westminster.

    181. heedtracker says:

      Troyboy’s like

      “But will Abiesalba’s true identity ever be revealed…? As if we don’t know, of course. It’s a bit like the Marvel comics where Batman’s real first name is Adam…”

      and Murdo Fraser

      “he is not only a Tory but a delusional Brutish Nationalist of the worst kind,

      he is harming Scotland not protecting it.”

      are protecting tory England’s rein over Scotland.

      If they lose control of their Scotland region, England will really start to push them out and the Lords will get fcuked off too. Tories own the BBC, STV, SKY and all the rest of media freak show but they’ve only got a quarter of the English vote.

    182. Clootie says:

      I agree with Dave McEwan Hill. I read the National daily and given the platform it provides for those who support Independence I will continue to do so. My money my choice. If you don’t like it then don’t buy it but stop telling those who buy what they should do.

    183. Phronesis says:

      A few perspectives on the EU from some individuals and organisations that do understand the consequences of economic choices.

      Danny Dorling writes in the BMJ

      ‘contrary to popular belief, 52% of people who voted Leave in the EU referendum lived in the southern half of England, and 59% were in the middle classes, while the proportion of Leave voters in the lowest two social classes was just 24%
      …almost all other European countries tax more effectively, spend more on health, and do not tolerate our degree of economic inequality…
      To distract us from these national failings, we have been encouraged to blame immigration and the EU. That lie will now be exposed. Most people younger than 50 who voted, voted to remain… But rather than blame the older generation…their ire should instead be directed squarely at all the post 1979 UK governments that have allowed economic inequalities to rise so high; that prevented a fair proportional voting system being introduced; that have harmed people of all ages; and that have placed future generations in peril’

      http://www.bmj.com/content/354/bmj.i3697

      Piketty calls a Brexit a ‘disaster’. He does however acknowledge that the EU does need reformed (shouldn’t any evolving political institution?)

      http://piketty.blog.lemonde.fr/2016/06/30/reconstructing-europe-after-brexit/

      There seems to be broad agreement of the consequences of leaving the EU;

      ‘Research at both CEP and NIESR shows that the UK economy would do worse outside the EU than in it. Trade as an engine of growth would stall. Indeed virtually all the economic work of which we are aware tells the same story – there really is no serious doubt that leaving would be taking a big risk with the economy…

      Given that leaving the EU is likely to reduce growth the public finances would suffer. That would mean higher borrowing in the short term and higher taxes or lower spending in the long-term.’

      https://fullfact.org/europe/economic-consequences-leaving-eu/

      The CBI agree that the benefits outweigh any doubts about staying within the EU

      ‘The UK’s net budgetary contribution is a small net cost relative to the benefits;

      The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP. As a comparison that’s around a quarter of what the UK spends on the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spend. The £116 per person net contribution is less than that from Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany and the Netherlands’

      http://news.cbi.org.uk/reports/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

      The end of the UK union is nigh- a natural consequence of Brexit and the educational reach of the YES movement. It is welcome- Scotland is moving on in terms of political thinking and having an accessible localised government that’s promoting participatory democracy. That’s a million miles away from a psychologically, emotionally and economically damaged WM that survives by omitting the truth and alienating large swathes of its electorate aided and abetted by a MSM that is incapable of balanced reporting.

    184. cearc says:

      JLT,

      Don’t forget that the African Union is itself developing at pace based on an EU type model. First two AU passports issued and ready to go, for firstly diplomats and then any country which wants to offer them to their citizens.

      The 1st Meeting of the Continental Free Trade Area Negotiating Forum was in February this year and they intend to have a free trade bloc up and running by 2017.

      So Little Britain will have to negotiate a trade deal that ALL African countries (except Morocco) agree to. Somehow I think they will be prioritising the deals with the bigger players EU, USA, China, Russia etc. before bothering with Little Britain. Still, Morocco might give them some negotiating time.

      It is really quite astonishing that Westminster politicians still regard themselves as important globally as they do. So China may well do a quick deal. Remind me what is the import/export ratio with China?

    185. One_Scot says:

      Just saw this on Twitter,

      https://twitter.com/Sandybbfan/status/757672999822716928

      Should be put through every house door in Scotland.

    186. Stoker says:

      K1 wrote (@ 5:04pm):
      “Zero respect for those who signed that petition,”

      Steady on dear fellow, that petition was on the go long before Crash Broon’s highjacking capers. Which brings me on to the rest of your otherwise excellent post.

      When i first read it i thought, ‘no, you’ve got that wrong K1’, but then a few others started mentioning it was 38 Degrees and i was still convinced it was a Change.org petition.

      Curious, i did a bit of Googling and just want to confirm that you, and the others who mention it, are bang on. It was 38 Degrees who done the dirty on us with the creature from the black lagoon.

      Feck, i don’t like this getting older malarky.
      Now, if only i can remember where i put my memory.

      Am away to compile some playlists, if i can find Youtube!
      😉

    187. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      It’s taken me hours to work through everything btl here, as I was sans interweb over Saturday and Sunday, in Strathardle.

      Re: journalists at rallies. At one of the George Square rallies, either the same day as, or just before, A Wings get-together, I was wandering around the Square when I was approached by Jamie Ross (Buzzfeed). We had a five minute blether, I guess about the continuing independence campaign.

      Later on, at the Wings stall, Angela Haggarty (Commonspace) came across for a blether. I remeber telling her about the Wings do but she never turned up.

      ————————————————-

      Hi jcd.

      Re: getting the word out about Saturday’s march/rally.

      Like you, I feel there is an over-dependence on social media to get the word out. Not everyone is on Twitter or Facebook. To get the maximum number of Glasgow folk there on Saturday, maybe the organiser(s) should have considered a wee display ad in Glasgow’s evening paper, on Wednesday or Thursday this week?

    188. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      That rally was in April 2015, I think.

      “remeber” = “remember”.

    189. ronnie anderson says:

      @ BrianDTT/jcd. re the Rally on Sat 10000 leaflets were sent up north I had a pile of them I gave them out to various groups/people & its been well advertized on social media.

    190. JLT says:

      @Cearc

      It is really quite astonishing that Westminster politicians still regard themselves as important globally as they do.

      The mindset of many in Westminster (as well as amongst the English electorate), is that the UK doesn’t want to be controlled by others, but wishes to control trade over others, while also being a major military power within the world.

      This is the mindset of the British Empire circa 1890.

      It’s completely delusional if they believe that this small island nation is going to take on the might of the various economic unions of the world …and believe it can do so as equals. I just can’t wait for Phillip Hammond to tell the UK that he has secured major economic and technological trading rights with China …that will see a sharing of cultures between the two nations that will also see Chinese nationals getting unhindered access to the UK so they can benefit from Britain’s further education system as well as the jobs that may come from Chinese companies.

      I await in anticipation when that moment comes, to see if the Brexiteers can spot the irony in the free movement of peoples between nations!

    191. Cadogan Enright says:

      Cruella Mayville was in my parish today – and the ‘hard’ boarder she warned us in the North of Ireland about before the EU referendum has apparently disappeared. Even the little Englanders in the DUP were out saying that we would be in a common travel area.

      So, when they start threatening you with a Donald Trump-like wall with East German and Korean watch towers and searchlights – REMEMBER – IT CAN’T HAPPEN without doing it to Ireland too – and that is NOT going to happen

    192. Fred says:

      Bernard got a wee bit ahead of himself interviewing Nicola but his gas was soon put in a peep! 🙂

      National just gets better folks!

    193. Paula Rose says:

      I’m staying in Ronnies shed,
      I’m staying in Ronnies shed,
      I’m staying in Ronnies shed,
      Yah boo sucks etc.

    194. cearc says:

      Cadogan,

      Yes, they even mentioned it on R4 news before moving swiftly on to the much more important US election. Nicola Sturgeon’s speech was not mentioned but then we can’t have the national news flooded with trivial regional stuff, can we?

    195. Valerie says:

      Scott Finlayson 7.02

      RTB does not exist in Scotland, it was abolished.

    196. K1 says:

      Stoker, yiv misundermastood ma post in that wan wee bit yiv cited, I didn’t say ‘I’ve’ zero respect for those who who signed it…wit a did say wis:

      “They revealed who they were for me in September 2014: Zero integrity, Zero respect for those who signed that petition, Zero courage in not owning up to it publicly.’

      38 degrees hud zero respect for those who signed it. I signed it and ave goat loads a respect fur masel 😉

    197. Valerie says:

      Apologies to Scott Finlayson! Seems its being phased out, ending this year.

      I think it will only be certain types or ages of houses, as newer housing may be excluded.

    198. KOF says:

      Dal Riata 20:12 says : “It’s a bit like the Marvel comics where Batman’s real first name is Adam…”

      +++ Comic book OCD sub-routine engaged +++

      “It’s a bit like the DC comics where Batman’s real first name is Bruce…”

      +++ Sub-routine powering down +++

    199. Ken500 says:

      The UK already trade with China. The rest of the UK has a massive trade deficit with China. They have a massive balance of trade deficit with China. The Chinese trade their goods but put up barriers to other foreign companies trading goods, unless they want them. Mostly luxury goods. To trade in China there must be a Chinese partner or subsidiary, which follows Chinese gov trading rules, tarriffs barriers etc. The Chinese call Scotland, ‘the land of invention’. They respect innovative production. They like Whisky and salmon. They are often suspicious of foreigners. They think they want to criticism them. The Chinese are very family orientated, respecting their elders. An extended family like a clan.

      Chinese are good tradesmen. Hard worker often manipulated and abused. They keep their word and goods are delivered on time and on price etc. That doesn’t happen everywhere else in the world, e.g. In India orders can be prepaid and then end up the wrong size or shoddy manufactured. India does better with call centres. They have well trained staff (degrees) and speak a common language I.e. English. Many countries have it as a second language if there is an established education system.

      Many countries get American films. Some people overseas learn English watching American movies. They speak English with an American accent. Scotland has a 40Million disporia interested in Scottish goods. Music, tartan goods, clothes whisky and food stuffs. Scotland is good at trading.

    200. Effijy says:

      ahundredthidiot says:

      25 July, 2016 at 6:43 pm

      effijy

      re low numbers signing trident, BBC or other petitions….I would suggest that a lot of people have their eyes on the big prize at the moment. I don’t believe its apathy, more of a focus.

      Thanks ahundredthidiot.

      I do give consideration to all posts and welcome everyone’s
      thoughts and opinions, but our bigger prize will be at least 1 year away, and most likely 2 years away.

      If we have Independence supporters who are totally consumed by something so far off, we really are in trouble.

      To sign up to the BBC Bias and Ant-Trident Petitions would take a one finger typist roughly two minutes to complete.

      We must support each and every campaign fully as they present themselves.

      I will be there at 10am on Saturday 30th July at the Botanic Gardens in Glasgow, to march side by side with every other Independence supporter who wants to reclaim George Square from the knuckle draggers in the City Chambers, and the others still at liberty but living in 1690.

      We must have many thousands in attendance to back our country, Scotland,otherwise the BBC will hijack the figures down to 2 Grannies, a sheep dog, and claim that
      most Scots love the generosity of Westminster.

    201. Molly says:

      Effigy
      I’m sure a few of us posted about 38 degrees a while back. On their site before Indy ref you could raise a topic. The topic with the most support would be taken on as the ‘project’ and 38 degrees ‘at that tipping point , would challenge whoever to change or be accountable.

      Consistently the subject most supported for weeks was people from Scotland complaining about – BBC bias.

      It somehow ( despite being miles ahead) never ever took up that challenge.

      Then after the fiasco of Brown hijacking it, I’ve never signed a petition by 38 degrees since.

      In fact, I now view them on a par with opinion polls. Tools used regularly by political parties , corporate business and big fat lobbying companies to shape agendas ( and gain data info ) rather than reflect true public opinion.

      Tam Jardine

      As Mcternan and Rob Shorthouse have both admitted, they use/ used ‘ armies of people to sit all day firing out stuff on social media and it might only be Twitter but it would appear there’s still ‘ an army’ firing out stuff today. Just look at the treatment Jeremy Corbyns getting? So why would newspapers be any different ?

      Just wonder who pays for their keyboard warriors ?

    202. mike cassidy says:

      Paula 10.31

      Will that involve going through one of those metal detectors?

    203. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      “had a quick scan of the meeja and after thoroughly bleaching my mind, its safe to say they’re having a fair old tiz over the FMs speech”

      Jeez, yes. If anyone googles ‘Nicola Sturgeon’ for news over the last 24hours, it has become a Force 10 shit storm.

      A plan well executed.

      No idea how WM expected events to unfold but today’s frontal attack from Scotland will have given them something to ponder!

    204. Effijy says:

      t42 says:

      25 July, 2016 at 6:50 pm

      K1 says:
      “I will never trust 38 degrees”

      or anyone who promotes it on here. continually.

      I’ll try again: If this group made formed a petition to demand Scottish Independence, and got 1,000,000 signatures,
      you wouldn’t mention it, or accept anyone else mentioning it, because you don’t like them?

      Perhaps you could give me an example of how the BBC can claim to be impartial and balanced if 100,000 people have signed up to them being Blatantly Biased?

      I really do wonder if you are working at Pacific Quay.

    205. mike cassidy says:

      For those with a fondness for the all-cuddly EU.

      http://archive.is/CuM4w (page 1)

      http://archive.is/8Pip1 (page 2)

      http://archive.is/oauv4 (page 3)

    206. Meg merrilees says:

      Just googled Nicola’s speech today and up came this article in the Daily Torygraph.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/nicola-sturgeon-unveils-five-key-brexit-tests/

      Anyone feel like voting in their poll:-
      ‘Should there be another Scottish independence referendum?’

      Currently on 56% No, 44% Yes, might need some help from Wingers…

    207. K1 says:

      Effigy,

      Why can’t you just accept that not everyone agrees with you about 38 degrees?

      You are literally banging on about this relentlessly, I don’t need yer judgement and yer scenarios to be guilted into your viewpoint on this matter. Would you just get on wi doing what ye want and leave me out of your drum banging attempts to tell everyone that they ‘should’ sign a fucking petition that some us are quite happily not going to.

      Cheers…p.s See you on Saturday 🙂

    208. @Valerie

      The `Right to Buy` your council house is being abolished in Scotland in 6 days,

      England has retained and enhanced the Right to Buy,

      here is a `guide`(not the Act) for Scottish Secure Tenants to buy there home,

      http://tinyurl.com/zxekbkw

      and here is the application form,

      http://tinyurl.com/gu2pzss

    209. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT. Just got a call from my brother, who suggested I ask someone to record Sky News Press Preview, on again shortly. Apparently they have a topper of a guest, who from my brother’s description, personifies the quintessential ‘Greater England’ colonialist attitude of bigoted entitlement.

      Should be good for a few votes if anything like described to me. 😉

    210. yesindyref2 says:

      I think rather than calling this Project Fear 2, it should be called Proejct Whimper, or Project Scrounge. When you think of it, the likes of Kevin Hague and Jum Gallagher delight in telling us that we’re subsidised by the English but they want it to continue, Which makes them Scroungers.

      And they tell us we can’t manage it, we’ll fail, we’ll have a black hole, we’ll be bankrupt. Which makes them Whimps. Yet they happily get their free prescriptions, send their kids to Uni with free tuition, and whatever benefits which they think, in their distorted minds, we get from the English. I think that makes them sick puppies.

      There are perfectly valid reasons for voting NO. Being a scrounger with your hand in the English pocket, a subsidy junkie, a piker, one who never puts his hand in his pocket to buy a round, is not one of them.

    211. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Paula Rose

      You,ve got a upgrade

      You,ve got a upgrade

      You,ve got a upgrade

      Your on the COUCH.

      Rose petals ordered fresh for Frid (Pink wans).

    212. Bill says:

      Fantastic news!

      Scot Finlayson says:
      25 July, 2016 at 11:48 pm
      @Valerie

      “The `Right to Buy` your council house is being abolished in Scotland in 6 days”

    213. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T What’s happening with the Marie Rimmer Sheriff Court case, nothing reported since the 12th July. Did the court go into recess for the “Glesca Fair Fortnight”? A recent High Court murder case was over in 16 days!

    214. ronnie anderson says:

      @ James Barr Gardner Im with Mitch Kilbride at Glasgow sheriff court today re Piers Doughy Brown/Sean Clerkin case, we will visit the criminal office for update on Mary Elizebeth Rimmer. Will post later today.

    215. Grouse Beater says:

      The `Right to Buy` your council house is being abolished in Scotland in 6 days”

      It doesn’t help those conned into buying one. (And stuck a Magnet Southern door on it.) Try selling the house.

    216. Edward says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 12.11 am

      I watched Sky News Press Preview last night at the 11.30 broadcast

      It had Carol Malone of the Daily Mirror and Stig Abell
      as reviewers

      Carol Malone already had form and was very much a Vote Leave supporter

      The jaw dropping moment came late on in the review when Malone commented on the Sun’s inside page article on Nicola Sturgeons press conference. Under the headline title ‘Irn Curtain’. What followed was a pure full on unionist hate fest from Malone.

      Included were ‘who does she think she is’, ‘she is always moaning’, she doesn’t do the job she is supposed to’ and ‘the state of the economy in Scotland, she should be doing her job’

      Not really sure which was worse, Carol Malone’s sheer little Englander ignorance or the Sun’s article

      The idiot article is here http://archive.is/YcqYH

      Hope that someone recorded the 11.30 press review (which is usually repeated at 12.30)

    217. Nana says:

      Links

      Liam o’Hare in conversation with Alex Salmond
      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8900/interview-alex-salmond-indyref-2-bring-it

      Any vote would have to be within the Brexit timetable, the former first minister said
      http://archive.is/4Qli2

      Fears new ships to back up Royal Navy will be built overseas
      http://archive.is/N474x

      https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/snp-accuses-uk-government-%E2%80%9Crelentless-and-sustained-assault%E2%80%9D-renewable-sector

    218. Nana says:

      Links

      There’s a loophole in Article 50 that lets Britain back into the EU whenever we want
      http://archive.is/3HhLQ

      European-regional-development-fund-erdf-suspends-treasury-brexit
      http://archive.is/85tH6

      http://uk.businessinsider.com/bhs-inquiry-mps-report-accuses-sir-philip-green-and-dominic-chappell-of-systematic-plunder-2016-7

      This may raise some hackles

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/like-loathe-scotland-still-needs-labour-now/

    219. heedtracker says:

      Is it July 26 2014 again?

      Groundhog Referendum:D

      Prof T, I mean Abiesalba
      Member since 21 Jul 2012

      Sturgeon: independence may be best for Scotland amid Brexit upheaval
      25 Jul 2016 23:04
      2 Recommend In response to Hailsa

      Much of the information you quote is out of date, or highly selective

      Whereas all information that the SNP provide is shameless lies, myths and half-truths.

      our countries are different, and I’m not sure that the comparisons you draw between them are valid or helpful. Scotland is not, thankfully, forging a newly separate identity in the aftermath of civil war. … Nor are we wide-eyed newcomers to the EU

      Sure. I get it. The most wonderful superior glorious Scotland should never ever be compared to any other nation, in particular not to an inferior commie Slavic nation – even if this inferior commie Slavic nation handled the independence process very successfully and smoothly, with no legal vacuum etc., according to international expert analyses.

      I have been told this very many times by Scottish nationalists.

      And by the way, Slovenia did not “forge a newly separate identity in the aftermath of civil war”.

      View discussion

    220. Ken500 says:

      @ ronnie anderson. You are a star

      Cases are sisted and adjourned and adjourned all the time. That is how lawyers make their money at £400 a time for a morning in court. They delay it all they can. If is legal aid they draw it out – not guilty -and then make a guilty plea at the last appearance. That is why lawyers are millionaires. 10% are honest and fair. The rest are more guilty than the clients. People who need it can no longer afford justice. It is too expensive.

      The Police pack the legal system with mild misdemeanours -criminalising the vulnerable. Many of the people in prison are vulnerable who do not get the care they are needing or drink/ drugs addicts who should be in rehab who need total abstinence counselling

      The guilty wealthy go free. The lying war criminals, the fraudster and tax evaders. Especially Unionists in Westminster lying and cheating to get elected, breaking electoral rules. Nothing is done about it. The Tories must have put a ‘D’ notice on the Chilcot verdict. There has been hardly any coverage, especially of the retired guilty Tory Military leaders. It will come out in Court when the Ministry of Defence is sued.

      The SNP Gov is building 6,000 affordable rental houses a year. Builders are building 17,000 private houses for a sale. 1/2Million people die off. This should provide homes for the next generation. Without migration the pop of European countries is falling. If US/UK and France were not blowing the Middle East to bits, There would be enough homes for people. Eventually council houses over 25 years (paid for twice) could be sold to sitting tenants and the money spent to build more affordable homes. France’s population has declined 5 million. From 70Million to 65Million.

      Scotland was depopulated by Westminster Gov centralist policies. People had to leave or emigrate to get a job or prospects. It is only since Devolution 2000 that the population of Scotland has increased.

    221. mike says:

      Getting a bit bored with the lack of anything from the tories defending Scotland’s place in the EU. One of the benefits (dubious) of the list system is that you get allocated a tory whether you want one or not. I have written to my tory (although I couldn’t bring myself to communicate with the Fraser bigot) for some clarification on their brexit position. I eagerly await his response, I am sure he has nothing else to do.

      Dear Dean Lockhart,

      I am hoping you can help me as I can’t seem to find any information anywhere. As you will be aware in the recent EU referendum there was a vote to leave the EU by Britain. However in Scotland there was an overwhelming vote to remain.

      Since then, I have not seen the conservatives take any positive steps to secure Scotland’s place in the
      EU. I am sure that you and your colleagues are working tirelessly to protect Scotland’s position and that you have just failed to effectively communicate this to the electorate. I would appreciate it if you would outline all of the good work you will have been doing in this area.

      I am particularly concerned as the only conservative MP in Scotland said on 13th July that he would be open to Scotland having a different deal on brexit if it was doable. He didn’t define different or doable. He also seems to have u turned on his position. I was hoping that you would be able to clarify the position on his behalf. My questions are;
      has he in fact u turned? Is his (and conservative policy) position brexit for Scotland at any cost? If brexit at any cost, when will you trigger article 50? If Scotland does have to leave the EU as a result of the vote does that mean that the union partnership of equals doesn’t
      exist and that Scotland is in fact a subservient partner in the union? What are you personally and the conservative party doing to ensure that Scotland does not have an unfavourable brexit deal imposed upon it by the dominant party to the union of equals?

      A lot of questions I know but I am sure that you will agree that the conservative position on this has been unclear, poorly communicated or non existent. I have not written to you before and am very interested to find your position on these matters.

      I eagerly await your clarifications.

      Yours sincerely,

    222. Macart says:

      @Edward

      The SUN article.

      THAT is not what the FM implied at all. In fact she went out of her way to demonstrate why hard borders between the nations of the British isles need not occur citing PM May’s trip to Ireland on that very subject.

      The meeja stirring it with the locals and appealing to the worst as per.

      But why let the facts get in the way of a dog whistle headline?

      They’ll never learn.

    223. Ken500 says:

      Whoever employed Tomkins at Edinburgh University needs their head examined. He knows nothing of Scottish Law, history, culture or society. Swanning around the world on Scottish taxpayers money. Never at his post. Deriding Scotland st every opportunity. A total embarrassment. A 2nd rate reject now on a second salary funded by Scottish taxpayers. An absolute disgrace, with a deluded sense of grandeur. ‘Psycho Bastards’ That is how the Tories politicians describe themselves. Who would argue?

    224. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      “I think rather than calling this Project Fear 2, it should be called Proejct Whimper, or Project Scrounge. ”

      Yes, there is always much more to the propaganda than Fear.

      As the Rev often points out, the Scottish media stories of events can vary greatly from the English one. This indicates targeting different audiences with Scrounge / Spounge / Subsidy thing usually for English audiences and part of the othering tactic. Project Othering is a very dangerous game to play. As we’ve learned in both referendums, the English media are willing to play that card.

      It does seem to have been adopted here by some pundits, perhaps as a Project Inadequate tactic of good old too wee, poor, stupid.

    225. Ken500 says:

      The only hope the rest of the UK is the Tories stagger on ruining the world economy until they is a GE and the Tory policies can be revoked. Hopefully by then Scotland will be away. Independent. Ireland is bound to reunite. Maybe then there will be some more peace in the world.

    226. Robert Kerr says:

      Totally O/T but ….

      Daily Mail has an article on a British family due to be deported from Australia.

      https://archive.is/HL7i9

      No mention at all about the Brain family here.

      No irony either.

    227. Ken500 says:

      Kevin Hague doesn’t pay tax or put in his books under UK regulations. His accounts are not filed in time. He is virtually bankrupt but is still trading. He expects other taxpayers to pick up his non compliance. That is why he wants to stay in the UK so he can pay no tax. He can’t count or read a balance sheet or run a successful business. A failure. Why anyone gives him credence on economics is a mystery. He doesn’t understand one side of a balance sheet from another. A fraud.

    228. I am not saying whether Right to Buy was a good or bad thing,

      over 400,000 Scottish families have bought there Council house on RTB

      Nicola`s family bought there Council house,

      out of the 400,000 I am sure there are not many that now regret buying there house,

      it was supposed to be ring fenced to give Councils much needed money to reinvest in building newer houses,

      but the councils used the money raised for other projects,

      but there obviously will be some,

      all I am doing is letting people know,

      that the Right to Buy your Council house ends on 31 July,

      http://tinyurl.com/z3gabru

    229. Ken500 says:

      Murdoch is a criminal danger to the world economy. A tax evading Non Dom. He should have been put in jail years ago for bribing public officials, A criminal offence. Instead of sharing a sofa at Downing Street with a criminal warmongering liar who should be put in jail. Not using his tax evaded illegal income to buy his way out. Blair is still manipulating (Labour) with his PR companies. A disgraceful individual responsible for maiming and killing millions of innocent people. He should be made bankrupt and put in jail.

    230. Dal Riata says:

      @KOF

      You are indeed correct on both counts; DC Comics and not Marvel; Batman’s first name is Bruce, not Adam. I was getting confused.com with Adam West the actor who played Batman on screen… or was it Adam Abiesalba?!

    231. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scot,,
      ..you say, understandably, that you’re not sure whether right to but is/was a good ‘thing’.

      But when you point out, correctly, that money ‘should’ have been re-invested..

      ..then SURELY, from an unselfish, national perspective, the plan failed for the population as a whole.

    232. Ken500 says:

      Iraq Inquiry Report – Parliamentary Channel

    233. Andrew McLean says:

      Scottish Psyche says: 4:55 pm
      “I also made the mistake of clicking on a Scottish Express article about the FM setting out to ‘blackmail the UK’- I read some of the BTL comments! The sheer unadulterated hate towards the FM!”
      The only reason the comments are so extreme is that the readership has been fed a diet of lies and misinformation, bogeymen (usually non white) round every corner, coming to rape and pillage you.
      It is a clear manipulation of the actual reality by the newspapers and to a lesser extent the broadcast media to create an extreme right wing agenda in the readership, there is a direct example in Germany in the thirties, actually mirror images have been used, this time it’s not Jews who are to be the victims but the faceless mass of immigrants, who all at the onetime are living on benefits, cutting your pay, taking your job, standing around street corners menacing and robbing you, and sitting in the doctors surgery or hospital, and all the doctors and nurses give them priority because they are immigrants too! Not only that there are millions more desperate to get into Britain because it’s the world capital. And not forgetting the one who made it all possible, who is destroying the country, who is in destroying everything you hold so dear?

      You feed that diet of Shite into someone who is frightened anyway and you create people who in any way will appear like lovable old grandparents, the guy down the street who washes his car every Sunday, or gives you a cheery smile as they walk the dog, instead they become storm troopers of the internet, pumped up to a hateful frenzy poised and ready to strike, all you need is a target, the papers will provide the hate.

      So when you say calmly actually you are mistaken, you get the hate that has been drip fed into them returned 10 fold. you get normally intelligent people looking onto sites like wings and saying we are all extremists, because to understand the truth would so de- stable their corrupt view of the world, there ego can’t face the fact that it has all been lies and they have been taken for fools. the same mass hypnosis takes place every day in North Korea, as it did in Germany. In Germany after the war you couldn’t find a Nazi, during the war you couldn’t find anything else.

    234. heedtracker says:

      Ken500 says:
      26 July, 2016 at 9:42 am
      Murdoch is a criminal danger to the world economy. A tax evading Non Dom.

      He sure is. Its a lot like groundhog day UKOK style politics with Murdoch press and tory BBC all piling in behind Thatcher 2.

      Back in the day, Murdoch, the BBC, Snatcher Thatcher tories demolished the left, the miners, got very lucky in the Falklands and got even luckier with the UK economy.

      Thatcher 1 had two giant boosts for her south of England only monetarist economics, Scottish oil and gas revenues alongside EU membership. Major wasnt cut out for economics and Crash Gordon merely followed through on Thatcherist spend spend spend, but only in the south east.

      Thatcher 2’s looking at a very different economic outlook, outside the EU and oil revenues gone now?

      Also, Prof Tomkins MSP is at Glasgow, not Edinburgh.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Tomkins

      Edit this and it instantly flips back. Wonder why.

    235. Ken500 says:

      Council house sales were not ring fenced to build more houses. The money was used for other council expenditure. Thatcher.

    236. @louis.b.argyll

      it was a noble experiment,

      that was abused by Labour controlled councils to line their own pockets,

      instead or reinvesting to make more modern, greener,better council houses,

      it did not `fail` it was just corrupted by the usual villains of the Labour Party.

    237. Andrew McLean says:

      Scottish Psyche says:4.55pm
      “I also made the mistake of clicking on a Scottish Express article about the FM setting out to ‘blackmail the UK’- I read some of the BTL comments! The sheer unadulterated hate towards the FM!”

      The only reason the comments are so extreme is that the readership has been fed a diet of lies and misinformation, bogeymen (usually non white) round every corner, coming to rape and pillage you.
      It is a clear manipulation of the actual reality by newspapers and to a lesser extent the brodcast media create extreme a right wing agenda in the readership, there is a direct example in Germany in the thirties, actually mirror images have been used, this time it’s not Jews who are to be the victims but the faceless mass of immigrants, who all at the onetime are living on benefits, cutting your pay, taking your job, standing around street corners menacing and robbing you, and sitting in the doctors surgery or hospital, and all the doctors and nurses give them priority because they are immigrants too! Not only that there are millions more desperate to get into Britain because it’s the world capital. And not forgetting the one who made it all possible, who is destroying the country, who is in destroying everything you hold so dear?
      You feed that diet of Shite into someone who is frightened anyway and you create people who in any way will appear like lovable old grandparents, the guy down the street who washes his car every Sunday, or gives you a cheery smile as they walk the dog, instead they become storm troopers of the internet, pumped up to a hateful frenzy poised and ready to strike, all you need is a target, the papers will provide the hate.

      So when you say calmly actually you are mistaken, you get the hate that has been drip fed into them returned 10 fold. you get normally intelligent people looking onto sites like wings and saying we are all extremists, because to understand the truth would so de- stable their corrupt view of the world, there ego can’t face the fact that it has all been lies and they have been taken for fools. the same mass hypnosis takes place every day in North Korea, as it did in Germany. In Germany after the war you couldn’t find a Nazi, during the war you couldn’t find anything else.

    238. galamcennalath says:

      Ken500 says:

      “Council house sales were not ring fenced to build more houses. The money was used for other council expenditure. ”

      Exactly, which is why it was a bad idea from the wider society point of view. There was an element of fairness letting people buy the homes they had rented for years. However reducing housing stock, which was a capital asset to then use the money for revenue expenditure was criminal.

      Also, why were private tenants who had been in houses for years not allowed to buy?

      It was all politicking and naff economics.

    239. Capella says:

      Re Council House Right to Buy, my recollection is that theThatcher govt specifically banned councils from using the money to build houses. Privatisation of housing was the policy.

    240. Fergus Green says:

      I could be wrong here but from memory, the Tories refused to allow money raised from the sale of council housing to be re-invested in building replacement housing stock.

      If this is the case, I think a few of the above posts are a bit misleading and the failure to re-build cannot be entirely blamed on Labour Councils, at least not in the 1980s and 1990s.

      Can anyone verify this?

    241. Al Dossary says:

      Councils under Thatcher – Withi months of her taking power, all councils across the UK stopped building houses. It put 500k building trade workers on the dole across the UK (leading to “Boys from the Blackstuff” etc where workers had to head to Europe for work).

      The last council houses that South Lanarkshire council build under the old sheme were actually sold privately on completion because had the council let then to council tenants they could immediately have applied right to buy. The council woild have lost a sizeable sum on them.

    242. One_Scot says:

      From the Daily Mail,

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/757872287207096320

      Their heads are so far up their own Yoon asses that they cannot see the sea of hypocrisy that is drowning them.

    243. The Rough Bounds says:

      Is there any way possible for the people who comment on here learning the differences between ‘there, their, and they’re’.

      It drives me nuts that so many of us can’t work it out.

      You use ‘there’ if there is a sense of direction. It’s spelt the same as ‘where’.
      You use ‘their’ if there is a sense of ownership. eg. ‘their council houses’.
      And lastly ‘they’re’, is just a contraction of ‘they are’.

      What is so difficult about that?

    244. Valerie says:

      @Capella

      Correct. RTB was the most shit Thatcher policy, pursued relentlessly by Blair.

      Your public money that built those houses, was transferred into the private sector, leaving the loans with councils, still being paid, for the build, and investment, like roofs, kitchens etc.

      The best stock was sold in areas, leaving no access to social rented in high demand areas. The unpopular, high repair flatted stock was left for renters as a last resort.

      The council STILL had to deal with those ex tenants that had bought, and defaulted on mortgages, under Homeless legislation. Or, another favourite, they made their old dear buy the house, then the child would kick out the aged parent for the council to house.

      The abuse and loss to the public purse is monumental, and under the guise of turning people into Tory supporters.

      The loss is in the billions, and providing anything like a healthy mix of housing tenure will take decades to correct.

    245. If I remember correctly thatcher told councils to use the money from right to buy to pay down that capital housing debt.

      And when Gordon Brown became chancellor in the Blair Government I don’t recall him relenting on the councils being allowed to use the money to build council houses.

      he attempted to financially black mail local authorities into disposing of all of their council housing stock.

    246. Luigi says:

      One_Scot says:

      26 July, 2016 at 10:50 am

      From the Daily Mail,

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/757872287207096320

      Their heads are so far up their own Yoon asses that they cannot see the sea of hypocrisy that is drowning them.

      Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. I actually enjoyed reading that article – what utter, extraterrestrial madness.

      The Mail and the Express: the Dandy and Beano of the gutter press. 🙂

    247. Effijy says:

      Great news on the Blatant BBC Bias petition:

      89,693 names so far and someone today will make it 89,700 !!

      90,000 here we come.

    248. crazycat says:

      @ The Rough Bounds at 10.58

      Thank you – I was thinking exactly the same.

    249. heedtracker says:

      Al Dossary says:
      26 July, 2016 at 10:41 am
      Councils under Thatcher – Withi months of her taking power, all councils across the UK stopped building houses.

      Also within in months of start of Snatcher Thatcher 1 regime, all legislation governing minimum UKOK room size, window size, circulation areas, build standards of all new house building were scrapped.

      Guess who one of Snatcher Thatcher 1’s big money backers were? Barratt.

      If you’ve ever wondered why modern housing is cramped, cheap, single skin walls and tiny gardens, thank Snatcher Thatcher and co. New Labour built no social housing and left the Thatcher building regs unchanged.

      And then they say they don’t like the red tory labelling

    250. Capella says:

      @ Valerie
      I think the slogan was “creating a property owning democracy” as in the USA, where it was in fact a ruse to create massive debt in the lower social orders – keeps their noses to the grindstone! One enthusiastic backer was Michael (now Lord) Heseltine who, I recall, had an estate agent business. Buy a multi-storey block, turn it into student flats, make a fortune. If you started off with one (family were coal merchants I think).

      Morphed into the sub-prime catastrophe. Why should poor people be deprived of the right to own their own home (massive debt)?

      It may be off topic but does give an opportunity for a bit of history!

    251. Stoker says:

      Legerwood wrote (@ 3:50 pm):
      “Re the Forbes list of Powerful Women. I think the list was published before she became PM hence her absence from the list.”

      Aye, sort of guessed that, just having a wee bit of fun with it!
      Under the current climate your guess is as good as mine as to how long Mayhem will last in post. The longer they keep her the better!
      _____

      galamcennalath wrote (@ 4:33 pm):
      “Forbes clearly sees just over the horizon, there 😉 “

      Well, as you know, Forbes is a very powerful, popular and influential business magazine. Maybe we do have friends across the pond who now know what side their bread is truly buttered. 🙂
      _____

      K1 wrote: (@ 10:38 pm)
      “Stoker, yiv misundermastood ma post in that wan wee bit yiv cited,”

      Aye, cheers mucker, i was obviously glazed over by thinking you were in the wrong regarding the petition company involved, but after realising you were in the right and reading your post again i can see that i got it completely wrong. Feckin auld age!
      🙂
      _____

      A possible bookmark for those Wingers, like myself, who enjoy Court cases and related legal matters, i’ve just come across this great wee blog. There is an interesting case regarding Russian journalists on page 10. Please note, if your reading this post some time from now, that Russian journalism story will have changed position due to new cases being added etc. 🙂
      Scottish Legal News – Case Law Archives
      http://www.scottishlegal.com/category/case-law/

    252. Valerie says:

      Labour were just as shit. They had opportunity to repeal the legislation, and didn’t.

      At one point, Councils had to prepare their council stock, under Thatcher, for Compulsory Competitive Tendering, so the residual stock would be open to the likes of Serco.

      The prep was well under way, and was just scrapped when Blair came in.

    253. jacksg says:

      Interesting discussion on right to buy.

      I had a discussion with a friend of mine a while back reg this legislation, turns out it was a labour policy from the early seventies but was very rarely enacted by councils or housing associations until the housing act of 1980 link below.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_1980

      As someone said earlier it was brought about to create a home owning country. Margaret Thatcher herself said that nowone should expect their local council to house them as it is not a right it is your responsibility as an individual to provide shelter.

      This housing act and the subsequent reduction of adequate housing being built rendered a lot of housing estates as problem housing hence the term ‘sink estate’ and other terms such as ‘Chavs’ which means council housed and violent.

      This policy has a lot to answer for it created a two tier society which still exists today, so fair play to the SG for restricting it and allowing councils to repair some of the damage.

    254. Cuilean says:

      Rough Bounds

      Bloody right.

      It’s the mad, mad, mad use of apostrophes which annoys me.

      can I just rant that the apostrophe (‘) is used for 2 very different purposes.

      Firstly, to show something belongs to someone e.g. a boy’s shoes; the dog’s dinner, the cat’s whiskers, the old man’s beard, Stu’s website etc.

      And if something belongs to more than one person (or thing), the apostrophe comes after the ‘s’ e.g. the two boys’ shoes; the ten dogs’ dinner; the old mens’ beards, the red & blue tory parties’ lies etc.

      And, secondly, an apostrophe is simply to show when letters are missing from a word e.g. I cannot = I can’t. I have = I’ve. All is well = All’s well. Of the clock = o’clock. Who would = Who’d. etc. etc. T

    255. Chic McGregor says:

      I have also noticed a creeping use of ‘that’ where it should be ‘than’. Cannot understand how such a thing can even come about.

    256. gus1940 says:

      One that is really getting up my nose is the regular misuse of ‘sank’ and ‘sunk’. One is active and the other passive which seems to be beyond the understanding of today’s journalists.

      Of course we also have the old chestnut of ‘decimate’ which is misused so often as to be nearly accepted in its misuse – Bring Back Latin In Schools!!!!

      Although I hated the 4 years of Latin I had to undergo I have in retrospect benefited far more from it than the 6 years of having to study Shakespeare’s plays.

    257. gus1940 says:

      Something which is currently getting right up my nose is the misuse of ‘sank’ and ‘sunk’ one of which is active and the other passive which seems to be beyond the understanding of today’s journalists.

      Of course we still have the old favourite of misuse – ‘decimate’ which is misused so often that the wrong meaning is almost becoming the accepted one. Bring Back Latin!!!!

      I hated every minute of the 4 years of Latin I had to undergo but in retrospect it has been far more use to me than the 6 years wasted studying Shakespeare’s bloody plays.

    258. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A large number of posters on here appear to use ‘auto-correct’ on their devices, rather than having their devices just highlighting suspected spelling mistakes by red underlining, to be manually corrected.

      I get the red underlining in the text input box but not in the preview underneath.

      Maybe all the “typos” are caused by not checking the auto-corrected text in the preview before submitting?

    259. K1 says:

      I heat teh taou recorct…ti’s a kicfung unicasen…

      tujs yasgni…

    260. Tinto Chiel says:

      Cuilean: the apostrophe is tricky because not all plurals in English form with s. So it’s old men’s beards and it’s mice’s heads and geese’s beaks.

      I get annoyed when it’s is used for its but it’s often the curse of auto-correct.

      Pedant spasm over.

      Applying to BDTT for pedant badge, first class.

    261. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Right to Buy. I’ve always viewed it as a con-trick and the introduction of the ‘new feudalism’. Well, it’s amazing what crap folks will tolerate in deference to their mortgage. Certainly limits your freedom of movement and politics.

      Re. shelter not being a right.

      HUMAN DEVELOPMENT AND SHELTER: A HUMAN
      RIGHTS PERSPECTIVE

      Today, however, there does exist a body of international law on development (ILD) comprising the UN Charter; the Universal Declaration on Human Rights; the 1986 General Assembly Declaration on the Right to Development, the Covenants on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and on Civil and Political Rights; a variety of international human rights and environmental treaties, and the Declarations and Programs of Action of a round of UN World Conferences from Rio to Beijing. It is vital that development (indeed, all development activity) be brought under a regime of “rule of law”. It is vital that all development activities conform fully to the principles of the international law on development. For such a premise (indeed mandate) one need not look beyond the Charter of the United Nations. In his Foreword to a Harvard Law School….

      https://core.ac.uk/download/files/153/6248903.pdf

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      For those that don’t click links. From the above.

      4. Development must be participatory. Governments and international development agencies must recognize the rights of all persons to participate in, and contribute to, economic, social and cultural development, promotion of these rights, which are guaranteed by international law, is an essential element of the human right to development, and governments and international development agencies must adopt appropriate measures to enable and empower people to:

      • take part, at all relevant stages, in all spheres of development, including the design, implementation and review of policies, plans, programs and projects;

      • form their own self-managed organizations to enable effective participation;

      • exercise all internationally recognized political and civil rights necessary to participate effectively;

      • initiate self-reliant, self-managed development efforts in all spheres affecting their economic, social, cultural and political development. States must also adopt appropriate measures to:

      • decentralize and devolve powers of governance to encourage regional and local participation and self-determined development;

      • encourage the exercise of rights of association at all levels free from any unwarranted governmental interference.

      5. Development must promote the right of peoples to self-determination, notably their right to exercise full sovereignty over their country’s natural wealth and resources.* This sovereignty must be realized:

      • through exercise of rights of participation guaranteed by international law;

      • through measures which fully respect all of the principles set out above and below.

      * My emphasis.

    263. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, just being a bit picky.

      Re. Right to Buy. I’ve always viewed it as a con-trick and the drive towards a home owning society, the introduction of the ‘new feudalism’.

      RtB undermined the core principle of international development law, i.e. that national policies and programs must respect the inter-related human rights necessary to afford an ‘adequate standard of living’ – access to adequate housing being one of these.

    264. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cameron B.

      My Dad retired in 1980, just as RtB was introduced. We, the children, tried to persuade them to buy, as they (and we) had lived in the 3 bedroom semi in St Marys since 1960. How much had they paid in rent? They would have attracted the maximum discount, at the time.

      My parents, declined, partly, I think, because home ownership was a completely new concept to them. They moved out to Dronley, where they lived for around 15 years, then to sheltered housing in Caldrum Place, from where they exited the planet; after paying rent for housing throughout their entire lives.

      The local councils should have been allowed to reinvest the proceedings from council house sales in new social housing but that wasn’t part of Thatcher’s plan. Social housing was frowned upon.

      (Just clearing my head by putting thoughts into text.)

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Hi Brian, IMHO, RtB played on human nature and the general desire to ‘better one’s self’, in order to undermine the ability of local authorities to provide democratically accountable local services (housing in particular), and to fragment political opposition which was strongest in metropolitan districts characterised by local authority housing.

      In essence, RtB was an attack on locally accountable democratic structures.

      The issues of accessibility and tenure are worthy of individual consideration, IMHO.



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