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Wings Over Scotland

The frying pan and the fire

Posted on May 28, 2018 by

We’ll keep this one brief, because it’s a bank holiday. We asked our Panelbase poll of English voters this month who they thought – regardless of respondents’ own politics – was doing the best job of leading their party. These were the results, in descending order of perceived competence:

1. Nicola Sturgeon (SNP)
Net rating: -5
(32% good, 37% bad, 31% don’t know)

2. Arlene Foster (DUP)
Net rating: -5
(13% good, 18% bad, 69% don’t know)

3. Vince Cable (Lib Dem)
Net rating: -7
(21% good, 28% bad, 51% don’t know)

4. Theresa May (Con)
Net rating: -18
(34% well, 52% badly, 14% don’t know)

5. Jeremy Corbyn (Lab)
Net rating: -19
(32% well, 51% badly, 17% don’t know)

Not a single net positive, and it seems particularly telling (and grim) that the two at the very bottom of the list are the only ones with any chance of actually becoming Prime Minister – pending, Lord have mercy on us all, the arrival of Jacob Rees-Mogg – while the top two don’t even sit in the UK Parliament.

(Foster, in fact, doesn’t currently sit in ANY parliament.)

To be honest, readers, it’s a miracle British people bother to vote at all any more.


NB We excluded leaders of minor parties because there’s not much point in basing figures on responses that are 80% Don’t Knows. In a separate question, for example, only 15% of our 1020 respondents could correctly name the current leader of UKIP*.

We thought that perhaps Arlene Foster might have attracted voters’ attention given her party’s pivotal role in propping up the Conservative government (and because she’s got more MPs than Vince Cable), but the vast majority of English voters still couldn’t pick her out of a line-up of randomly-chosen East German shot-putters and Paul Merton from Have I Got News For You.


*Um, possibly Barry someone? Gerry? Colin? We’ll have to check Wikipedia again.

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  1. 28 05 18 18:56

    The frying pan and the fire | speymouth

110 to “The frying pan and the fire”

  1. The frother, the frother says:

    Sorry but this story needs some context.
    In the category of good/well Saint Teresa of Brexit is the clear winner with 34%
    The silent majority doesn’t want to hear bad news about unionist leaders so we can easily discount the bad/badly category.

    Can I get a BBC funded job in the Scottish print meeja now please?

  2. Dickie says:

    JRM as PM must be the best chance of us gaining Independence surely? 🙂

  3. Malky says:

    Wake me up when we’re independent. Thanks.

  4. bobajock says:

    C’mon. The don’t knows are the problem in society.

    Just gazing at those who think Sturgeon is doing badly – you have to laugh – particularly when you examine the turd-shock that Westminster is at the moment. Even the BBC covered her Barienr meet-up today.

    but if you don’t know – well – thats the people who don’t vote cos ‘it doesnt make a difference’. Shocking tbh in Scotland, but wholly understandable for FPTP & Westminster.

    ^ Don’t knows – made #Brexit

  5. Dan Huil says:

    Is “well” the same as “good”?

  6. Alasdair Macdonald says:

    I suspect that if you had asked about THE COLONEL you would have got a substantial positive score, given the amount of uncritical puffery she gets dahn sarf, particularly from the arrogantly self proclaimed ‘progressives’ in The Guardian, Observer and New Statesman.

  7. jimnarlene says:

    There’s something seriously broken in English politics.

  8. jfngw says:

    Good to see Mr Carlaw on Rep Scot ranting that Nicola Sturgeon should keep out of Brexit, it is the job of MP’s from England to do the deal seemed to be his message.

    Best shut up and know your place message I’ve seen for a while. Thank goodness he has no power in Scotland, a forelock-tugger of the highest order.

  9. yesindyref2 says:

    Some program on TV for people to do something with, didn’t pay attention, with Kermit the Frog on one side, and Jacob Rees-Mogg on the other. Maybe it was spot the difference, no idea.

  10. Sal Newton says:

    Most of the Public sector don’t get any of the May bank holidays any more. Not even May Day. Saves paying enhanced rates to all the folks forced to work whilst the bankers still enjoy all their perks.
    Same deal for most of the lower paid private sector too. Never mind, when the Tories ditch the EU workers rights we will lose all the rest of our paid holidays to feed the greed of the elite.

  11. Welsh Sion says:

    Meanwhile in other news from Englandshire … A “must see” according to the BBC.

    “Gloucester cheese-rolling veteran breaks all-time record”

  12. Street Andrew says:

    Malky says:

    “Wake me up when we’re independent. Thanks.”

    Malky, yours may be the crucial input that swings the vote or swings a voter. Don’t risk sleeping through the process or there may be no Independent Scotland to wake up in.

  13. Tam the Bam. says:

    jfngw @ 6-46pm

    Car salesman Carlaw there proving the old saying…’empty vessels make most sound.’…as utterly vacuous as the colonel.

  14. Mark Russell says:

    I wonder how the results would have looked if you had substituted “Don’t Care” instead of “Don’t Know”?

  15. galamcennalath says:

    It’s First Past The Post which destroys any credibility for ruling parties at Westminster IMO.

    OK, so Corbyn versus May seems a particularly crap choice, and neither of their parties have coherent policies. However, the underlying system allows minorities unfettered power.

    EVERY single government forming party has been rejected by a majority of the voters since the Marquess of Salisbury in 1900 got 50.2%.

    That is not democracy by any measure. No wonder folks are pissed off the WM!

    The majority of voters NEVER want the governments which grab power via the archaic rules.

    Labour in 1945 got 47.7% and like Thatcher with 43.9% in 1979. Both went ahead and fundamentally changed the UK.

    Cameron got 36.9% and May 42.4%. These are all dictatorship by minority.

    Westminster should have had some form of proportional representation like the rest of Europe decades ago.

    Will WM change? Of course not. The LibDems blew their chance for forcing change. The solution? Scotlands out of this mad undemocratic system.

  16. yesindyref2 says:

    In other news indeed, some black female on the news, she couldn’t be more English if she tried, you’d guess she’s English within 5 seconds of her talking.

    Yet the Home Office says she’s Jamaiacan or something.

    This country – the UK – stinks, I want out and away from the totally heartless so called “Home” Office, which should be renamed the “Home-wrecker Orifice”.

    Fuck ’em.

  17. Dr Jim says:

    Those results show the success of the media and press by confusing the population of England so much they don’t know what’s up or down let alone what to vote for

    English politicians and their media have told so many lies about everything no one trusts anything anymore which sets the Tories up nicely for their prospective dictatorship over a Zombie nation only capable of grunting

    Not excluding Scotland coz we’ve got a right load of grunters here as well

  18. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    the UK – stinks, I want out and away

    Some days, I think after Scotland is independent (and possibly Ireland reunified) we could have a genuine family of nations on these Isles cooperating for mutual benefit.

    Then when I hear some of these stories about real ordinary people, I think that rUK is a complete pariah state and iScotland should keep its distance. Talk, cooperate, trade … yes …. but they just don’t share our values. We need to move quickly away and disassociate from their attitudes and actions.

  19. Robert Peffers says:

    @jfngw says: 28 May, 2018 at 6:46 pm@

    “Good to see Mr Carlaw on Rep Scot ranting that Nicola Sturgeon should keep out of Brexit, it is the job of MP’s from England to do the deal seemed to be his message.”

    So, if his mind-set is that democratically elected MSPs have no right to interfere in BR UKExit why is he on this daft rant?

    Oh! Wait up! Murdo wasn’t elected he’s just a list MSP. However, as Nicola is not only elected she is the leader of the third largest Westminster party.

  20. Jock McDonnell says:

    He really must believe Scots think London knows best. Just got to wonder what people he meets on a daily basis. Must be a very closed group.

  21. Endrick Water says:

    That is a terrifying poll. I suppose it’s possible that the “Don’t Knows” are just lazy and didn’t want to have to think at all, but that leads down another rabbit hole, doesn’t it? If people won’t engage in a democracy, won’t think outside the box, won’t think full stop, then what’s it for? (Sorry, that sounds really bleak, but I am fearful.)

    I was pleased that Barnier saw Sturgeon. He didn’t have to, she has no direct power, but I’ve no doubt she was articulating what most are thinking.

    I can’t be only one who was astonished anyone at all anywhere thinks Gove-Davidson represents a dream ticket, surely?

  22. jfngw says:

    Seems appropriate that soon after Ruth Davidson almost dies by being ravaged by a pack of rabid dogs, the Herald uses a dog food salesman as their financial guru.

    I think the secret is the KH quotient, this is a factor you multiply to any proper financial experts calculations to produce a result that proves Scotland is shite.

  23. ScottieDog says:

    Latest “it will take iScotland 67 years to catch up!” LOL

    The pre-copernicans were famous for their elegant and complex models showing the sun’s path around the earth! 🙂

  24. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T

    Wee heads up to everyone.

    Independence Live who work very hard to bring us all livestreams of rallies and debates of pretty much everything we o’ independent mind take an interest in are running their summer crowdfunder.

    They were at the Gathering on Sunday at Stirling and gave everyone who couldn’t make it a livestream from the event.

    The money they raise largely goes on equipment and keeping their Livestream account paid up. Nothing gets wasted. There’s never enough. Most of the Live Indy folk give their time for free.

    They will be livestreaming from Dumfries next weekend so all of you who can’t go can at least watch on and have a wee blether on the chat.
    There is one day left on the fundraiser and it is only at 60%.

    Maybe no-one knows about the fundraiser, but I find it incredible that their crowdfunders always struggle to reach the line. Don’t we want independence? Don’t we want to see the events? If we do then we can’t expect the bbc to cover it for us. Live independence DO, and they do it on a shoestring. Quit watching the bbc and give the propaganda tax to Live Indy. It’s better value.

    If we don’t keep resources like this funded they will disappear.

    Please, please give whatever you can.

  25. Dr Jim says:

    *Journalists* are all economists now, it’s part of the in depth training they all undergo in the pub

  26. Returnofthemac says:

    Was on a high after the Gathering yesterday in Stirling. Back to reality today with the usual suspects berating our first minister for having the gall to talk to Barnier. Know your place woman, I’ve fuckin had with this failed car salesman, colonel gadafti, the wee wummin that can’t read her own question in Holyrood and the rest of these unelected arse holes

  27. Returnofthemac says:

    X sticks. O/T
    Agree with your comments on Livestreaming events. Spoke to Kevin on Sunday and totally appreciate how difficult it is to keep this going. We need this as much as we need the Rev. Donation made.

  28. A.H. says:

    I guess for people who grew up with First Past The Post as the only option, it’s hard to see just what a terrible, undemocratic system it is.

  29. Capella says:

    @ X_sticks – donation made to Independence Live. I agree they are very necessary since we get no MSM coverage.

    I’m just back from a week in the south of England. I get the impression that, kind and welcoming of the Scots as most people are (but not of our currency), they really don’t give Scotland much/any thought.

    Shops would not accept Scottish notes as there was no bank and the Post Office would not change Scottish notes. The Post Office said there were too many counterfeit Scots notes so they wouldn’t accept them.

    Enjoying catching up on here. It’s been a busy week in the helter skelter world of Scottish politics.

  30. Chick McGregor says:

    Mark Russell
    ” wonder how the results would have looked if you had substituted “Don’t Care” instead of “Don’t Know”?”


    “It doesn’t matter.”

  31. Ian McCubbin says:

    Words fail me .
    Seems most folk either dont care of just know little about politics.

    Hurry up UDI its all I can think of?!?!

  32. twathater says:

    Like Capella also just donated to indy live as they are better value than bbc scotlandshire or msm bullshitters

  33. jfngw says:

    It looks like independence supporters may need to be extra careful if they engage direct with unionist politicians. They no longer have any real arguments for the union so they are turning to the underhand tactic of lying about encounters to paint supporters in a bad light. As we have seen this will then be made into a multi-day story in the MSM.

    They used this tactic in 2014 but as they have nothing else now then it will be ramped up next time. Ensure you have witnesses and a video record of any encounter. Remember they want the confrontation, without the yes people attending I suspect they would end up just talking to their claque.

  34. jfngw says:

    I’ve got to laugh at the level of intelligence when I see the twitter attacks on Nicola Sturgeon (amazing number have Rangers in their profile). They seem to think we are all mesmerized and if she was removed we would suddenly stop wanting independence.

    Bad news I was pro-indy before Sturgeon or Salmond were leaders. I will still be pro-indy after Sturgeon (hopefully we will be by then and I won’t need to think about it again).

  35. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, it’s sad. You have the Tories who are at heart, heartless though there are some decent MPs. Then there’s Labour and the best leader they’ve had in the last 30 years or whatever was Brown. Yeah, right, I know, but at least he was a rugby player once. Then there’s the LibDems who were decent but sold out for power and destroyed themselves. The only genuine party was UKIP. Yeah, right again. There’s suppsoed to be some new party, haven;t followed it.

    Best thing for us is to have an embassy in London with tolerance trained diplomats, and let the FM (I prefer that title to PM) of Indy Scotland talk gently about human rights while arranging trade deals, just like with China. But like most I have relatives and even friends in England and Wales, God help them, because the stinking political parties they’ve got won’t. Apart from PC of course, and the Greens are decent.

    But imagine that, a country with no decent political party.

  36. Colin Alexander says:

    Speaking of Jacob Rees-Mogg:

    That’s an amazing likeness. Like a phot-fit image.

    Before people moan (as usual): it widnae archive for me, so there!

  37. jfngw says:

    Good of Kevin to have given us the being in the union has placed Scotland 67 years behind comparable countries tagline. That’s a keeper for the referendum.

    ‘Unionist admits being in union has cost Scotland 67 years of progress compared to other similar countries, vote No if you want to see us reach 100 years behind.’

  38. Colin Alexander says:


    A tenner oan its way to

    If a so-called Wings “troll” can back this great project, let’s see the colour of your money from the rest of youse.

  39. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh good grief, Average is still on about “fiscal transfer”. What a numbskull! Good thing is the Unionist media is lapping it up, it’s music to their ears. Which makes them even more numbskullish than Average.

    Who’s his handler. Swinney? The Quiet Man?

  40. yesindyref2 says:

    I just checked and Average really does justify being below average.

    At the very least the report should have shown a sensitivity analysis to highlight what would happen if that 0.7% turned out to be 0.26% – or indeed if it turned out to be the 0.12% figure the independence White Paper previously used. Of course we know the answer because it’s a linear relationship; 25 years becomes 67 years becomes 146 years!

    Like, wow, man. I guess he spent too much time howling at the moon.

  41. jfngw says:


    Grief, I don’t actually read anything he writes, he’s just a man with a spreadsheet to me. I don’t have enough years left to waste my time with nonsense, I was just picking up the gist of it on twitter.

  42. Alba Laddie says:

    Jackson two-insolvency events Carlaw? Wonder if the MSM will remind us of this when he steps in for wee Gadaffi? Won’t hold my breath…

  43. yesindyref2 says:

    I had a good look through his timeline, and checked out some retweets. Birds of a feather flock better together, at least I think it’s “flock”, and it even includes John Ruddy, though I forget what significance he has, and of course SiU. Another interesting one though, bearing in mind a poster on The National. I feel all dirty 🙁 But informed 🙂

  44. Still Positive says:

    Just watched the FMs interview on politico. She was brilliant as always. What a star – Roll on indy. We have a brilliant lot of mainly SNP politicians.

  45. Skintybroko says:

    With the British Nationalists collectively known as the Con Lab Libdems are they not misrepresenting themselves across the UK ? We have Welsh and Scottish versions of these parties so shouldn’t the main parties be prefixed by “ English’ as we don’t and cannot vote for them directly in the devolved nations. There is no doubt that Westminster is the de facto English Parliament and thus should be reflected honestly in who we are voting for- appreciate this has probably been covered before sorry for being O/T

  46. sassenach says:

    As was said earlier, I, also, watched Nicola on,and she is so in control it’s almost awesome. I firmly believe she knows exactly what she’s doing, and I’m certainly happy to accept her judgements on our way forward to Indy.

    How anyone could be insane enough to even consider tRuthless to be an FM(let alone these idiots proposing her for PM!!!) is an eternal mystery.

    Nicola is totally on top of her brief,and answers questions with none of the usual politician’s avoidance techniques. A pleasure to listen to.

  47. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Simple @sassenach says at 7:16 am

    “How anyone could be insane enough to even consider tRuthless to be an FM(let alone these idiots proposing her for PM!!!) is an eternal mystery.”

    MSM/BBC ignore and don’t broadcast interviews with the FM like this while at the same time not pursuing Colonel Yadaftie and calling her out/to account.

    That’s why unfortunately.

  48. Nana says:

    Warning- do not eat or drink whilst reading.

    EU demand for legislation to indicate origins of food and drink to be flashpoint in talks

    Britain handed the EU the power to freeze UK companies out of its lucrative Galileo satellite navigation project, MPs have concluded, in a major embarrassment for Theresa May.

  49. Nana says:

    Government hikes fees to renounce British citizenship after Brexit foreign nationality surge

    “Why is the double standard policy? Why don’t we intervene with other countries to impose sanctions on #Israel?” A #Belgian MP stands in solidarity with #Gaza and slams the International Community for ignoring the #Israeli crimes.

  50. sassenach says:

    Nana – that “Dream Ticket” link is a belter – who is that clown writing that column? Fantasy land doesn’t even come close!

  51. Alibi says:

    “The vast majority of English voters still couldn’t pick her out of a line-up of East German shot-putters and Paul Merton from Have I Got News For You.”

    …so I’m not the only one to notice the resemblance to Paul Merton… 🙂

  52. Ottomanboi says:

    She’s got the stern look, she’s got the macho stance, she’s got the wee tank; Ruth Davidson for Supreme Leader! Go! Go! Go!

  53. Robert Louis says:

    One thing I would dearly love to see, once we become independent from England’s colonial control, is for the supposed ‘great leader’ Davidson to get made the PM in England. It would be a just and fitting end to this terrible, undemocratic ‘union’ with England.

    Davidson has been elevated to mythical status by the media. Desperate to fight independence, and with a lack of anything useful from Labour, so-called ‘journalists’ have set out to portray Davidson as much better than she is. No hard questions, they never interview her when HER party screws things (has she even been challenged over windrush?) up. It is a classic, orchestrated deceit.

    The SNP have more than twice as many MSP’s in the Scottish parliament (Tories have less than one quarter of all seats), yet this is glossed over by a media machine keen to lift Ruth Davidson to near mythical status.

    Of course it comes as no surprise that it is the blatantly biased paid liars at the BBC who have been at the forefront of this deceit. That’s what the BBC do. Davidson used to work for them. Quelle surprise!

    The funny part though, is that most in Scotland know she is a third rate politician, but doon in auld London toon, they think, because of those wonderful media reports from Scotland, that she is PM material. It is laughable.

    So, we can only hope that rape clause Davidson, makes it to London and gets the top job. The day that happens I will laugh very hard indeed. She is incompetent, and has been shown to be a deceitful liar over and over again. Scotland can do better, without Tories like Davidson, and Edinburgh will likely be a nicer place without her.

  54. Nana says:

    Good morning sassenach

    Not just the writer sassenach. Some of the comments below are delusional as are the replies, off their heads [or meds]

  55. gus1940 says:

    Put your coffee down.

    An article in today’s Hootsmon refers to Untruith Ruth as a ‘Tory Messiah.

  56. gus1940 says:

    Put your coffee down.

    An article in today’s Hootsmon refers to Untruth Ruth as a ‘Tory Messiah.

  57. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    gus1940 at 8.29am

    WGD has her as “Ina Paisley” though I prefer Woof Davidson after yesterday’s pantomime.

  58. sassenach says:

    “gus1940 says:
    29 May, 2018 at 8:29 am
    Put your coffee down.

    An article in today’s Hootsmon refers to Untruth Ruth as a ‘Tory Messiah.”

    I now have to accept that I’m living in a parallel universe!

  59. Breeks says:

    gus1940 says:
    29 May, 2018 at 8:29 am
    Put your coffee down.

    An article in today’s Hootsmon refers to Untruth Ruth as a ‘Tory Messiah.

    Sadly, I think it’s the paper which needs put down. It’s had a good innings, but now it’s just embarrassing itself.

  60. Macart says:

    Some good catches there Nana.

    I’ll give the Davidson/Gove dream ticket piece a miss right enough. 😀 I can’t think of two more dishonest, no to mention downright untrustworthy, individuals if I tried. Is there anyone in the Conservative party Gove hasn’t stabbed in the back?

    That they both would throw their constituents under a bus to forward their careers goes without saying, but when you continually undermine your own colleagues that takes you to entirely another sub level of careerism.

    Media creations protected (for the moment and expediency) by the media, or until the next big thing comes along. A media that absolves itself of responsibility by the by. They create politics by sound bite. The world of z list political celebrity. The UK we see today was built as much by them as by the political classes who create the narrative for them to run with. Yet not one of them will own responsibility. Not the publishers/broadcasters and not the commentators/news editors.

    Their ‘go to’ get out of jail free cards? Freedom of the press. We only report what we’re given to report. You don’t have to believe, it’s your choice. Only when you make a choice that doesn’t follow their narrative? You’re simply vile. Your other sources are corrupt propaganda machines of furren powers or med, med, cybernets. You’re simply not educated enough, don’t understand and, and, and… SHUT UP! BECAUSE!

    Here’s the thing though, and there’s no getting round it. When you have the power to place people in a position of prominence and affect/manipulate opinion. When you refuse too tell the whole story. When you deliberately fail to ask the right questions. When you misrepresent or downright fib about the answers given. When you neglect the opportunity to place someone under the same scrutiny you do others. What happens if your celeb du jour achieves high office and the result is a catastrophe for a population? Is it still a case of nothing to do with me guv?

    Have they looked out a window recently do you think? Probably not and tbh I don’t think they care. They’re a bit busy creating the next Mayhem, BoJo, Farage, Davidson and on and on.

    Regardless. The UK we see today was created by its practice of politics and a politically and corporately motivated media. Pick a title? You pick a party. PIck a headline? You pick a narrative and worldview.

  61. jfngw says:

    The most amusing thing about Mr Carlaw’s Rep Scot rant about Nicola Sturgeon should be concentrating on her work at Holyrood is his own leader at Holyrood currently appears to be plotting a route to become the PM. Now that is hardly the look of someone focused on the Scottish Parliament and people.

    Nicola Sturgeon focusing o Scotland and it’s future.
    Ruth Davidson focusing on her career and her next step up the ladder.

  62. Footsoldier says:

    Jackson Carlaw needs to calm down as he seems to be permanently angry.

  63. Bob Mack says:

    Nicola and the SNP are the only ones who wish to see Scotland thrive as an independent country. Every other Unionist MP wishes to minimise and eventually obliterate Scotland as a thriving nation . They are robbing us of our identity with their Union Jack packaging, and their determination to remove Holyrood powers, which differentiate us from other areas of the UK.

    They did the same stuff after the Jacobite rebellions trying to remove a national identity. No gatherings ,no braid, no anything which declared Scottish identity.

    Unionists in Holyrood work against Scotland. That fact should concern everyone. They want our services and businesses to fail despite their glib assurances of concern and claims of Scottishness. Insincerity is their byword.

    I detest them wholeheartedly. Liars every one of them.

  64. Nana says:


    So true, not one of them thinks or works for their constituents.

    For clowns like Gove, Boris, May and the rest it’s all about ‘me me me, take what I can grab, fill my own pockets’ and to hell with everyone and everything else. Same can be said of the yellow and red tories, sitting in parliament laughing at the people who elected them or as in our case the numpties who slip in on the list.
    Best not get me started on Blair, Brown and that gang.

    None of them would be there without help from the press and the damage for what is happening now can be laid directly at their door.
    Writing vacuous bullshit daily for the masses immigrantbad, EUbad, Scotlandbad, snpbad, cybernatbad. Yet those poor saps who believe it can not see how they are being manipulated to hate everything instead of the real enemy.
    A corrupt government aided by the corrupt media.

    and breathe……….

    Re the media messiah complex about Davidson. ?I think Peat Worrier nails it here

    The escapist Tory fantasies about Ruth Davidson continue. “The current batch of vacuous ghouls in the cabinet won’t do. Let’s bring on a new vacuous ghoul.”

    Couple more links for now

    10,000 Tanks & A Lying Tory

  65. Capella says:

    @ Nana – that’s an excellent speech by the Belgian MP. Like UK, Belgium has a lot to answer for in the colonies. DRC sprins to mind.
    I wonder what anwer he got.

    Why is the double standard policy? Why don’t we intervene with other countries to impose sanctions on #Israel?” A #Belgian MP stands in solidarity with #Gaza and slams the International Community for ignoring the #Israeli crimes.

  66. jfngw says:

    The Davidson phenomenon is also well demonstrated by some journalists that were once apparently very pro-indy suddenly becoming lukewarm when a MSM job comes their way. Getting your foot on that career ladder, who knows a real UK national paper or broadcaster may spot me, I’ll write anything for that opportunity.

  67. Tinto Chiel says:

    Nana, I know you warned us and all that but that Gove/Davidson thing is really bad for the digestion. However, it does remind us that the MSM is the BritNat life-support machine (iron lung would perhaps be a better analogy in view of their crude, outdated views). Without them, they’ve got zilch: just wait till you see the rehashed arguments they’ll deploy in Indy2.

    And every time I see Arlene Foster the words “Mrs Doubtfire from Hell” form in what’s left of my brain. God knows what state I would be in (NPI) w/o this site or WGD.

    Some excellent comments this morning, which have calmed me down…

  68. hackalumpoff says:

    Maybots latest appointment, Lord Mikey of Codsmouth plays with his dummies.

  69. jfngw says:

    I see the BBC reporters are now in ecstasy again at the political turmoil that may be happening in Italy. They were sadly let down when anti EU parties did not take control in Holland, France & Germany. They have now pinned their hopes on Italy to be the country that follows the UK to try and bring down the EU.

    From my perspective Italy regularly seems to be in political turmoil so they may once again be disappointed. How much must the Italians desire the strong and stable leadership of the UK, not much I suspect.

  70. Dr Jim says:

    If you walk down Main street Europe and ask people who Nicola Sturgeon is chances are they’ll know and even be able to tell you a little something about her

    If you go to New York or Los Angeles and do the same, folk know who the First Minister of Scotland is because she’s been there invited to address various public organisations and been on their Tellys
    She’s done the same here in Wales and in Ireland

    Now if you ask the same question about the Tory branch manager in Scotland anywhere else you’re likely to get *ZIP* because Ruth Davidson talks to no one who isn’t her party and even then behind closed doors usually in England somewhere where they don’t know who she is either

    But here’s the ridiculousness of the situation if the English are told Ruth Davidson’s the next big thing they’ll vote for her because the English media say so and that’s more of an indictment of the English voter than even the manipulation of the English media

    So there you have it folks somebody Scotland rejects on a consistant basis as a racist sectarian no talent big mouthed Numpty could possibly end up being the prime minister of the UK by virtue of the complete and total stupidity of English voters

    And once again Scotland would be stuck with it

    So when or if the Labour voters in Scotland ever begin to grasp the situation they’re helping to create by supporting the Tories in Scotland do they even consider what they’re actually enabling elsewhere

  71. Nana says:

    @Capella, it is a good speech. I wondered about the reply as well. Here’s something you might find interesting. Paper published 2013 in English

    Belgium and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
    The Cautious Pursuit of a Just Peace

    @Tinto, advice from now on. Take antacids before reading links.

  72. louis.b.argyll says:

    Good point about Arlene Foster, not sitting in any parliament.

    Shouldn’t the N.I. Assembly members be made redundant until they get their own shit together?

    Are they all just working from home? Do they need their parliamentary secretaries? Can they take a sabbatical until Brexit?

  73. auld highlander says:

    The wee dug is putting the boot in this morning.

  74. Dr Jim says:

    In the Huff:

    Nicola Sturgeon refuses to promise me a strawberry cornetto
    so I’m not voting for Independence
    I don’t want toffee or chocolate or one with nuts on because if that’s all that’s on offer in an Independent Scotland you can count me out and I’ll stick with Tory gruel and continue my miserable grumbling

    It’s easier than changing to the uncertainty of wrongly flavoured cornettos

  75. jfngw says:

    Not sure why Kevin Hague gets any attention by indy supporters, we know fine that it did not matter what the growth commission report said he would have rubbished it. He believes Scotland should never be an independent country and will come up with stats that always proves this.

    What we have to focus on is the countries that had less resources than Scotland when they became independent and are now more prosperous than us. The only conclusion I can see is the the millstone of the UK has held us back, get rid of it and we have the possibility of joining the prosperous small countries of the world. Or stay and continue the steady decline of the UK.

  76. paul gerard mccormack says:

    O/T – This seemed like a bleedin obvious question to have asked the BBC, but nevertheless i did it as often the simple stuff bears fruit (my question was to get them to confirm the proportionate percentage of appearances on QT by the SNP) but the response is slightly surprising in that the proportionate numbers /percentages are apparently not monitored!

    Yet how can they assure us of representation if they do not monitor the numbers? – Just a gut ‘feel’????? here is their response below – I will continue again and re-ask the question as this is on the face of it, bollocks of course. i dont give 2 hoots about their shitty programme – i just wanted the numbers.

    Dear Mr McCormack

    Reference CAS-4942558-2SVNCP

    Thank you for contacting us about ‘Question Time’ on BBC One.

    I understand you feel the SNP are underrepresented on this programme and would like information on the percentage of representatives from each party appearing on the programme

    ‘Question Time’ aims to represent a broad range of views but it cannot always do this while ensuring strict political balance each week. The panel usually consists of MPs from the main political parties, together with representatives from various organisations and newspaper columnists or editors. The programmes try to achieve balance over a reasonable period and have a firm commitment to political balance over their series as a whole.

    The SNP will tend to feature in editions from Scotland and also from some other locations outside Scotland.

    You can find out more about selection of panel members and other related issues by following the link below:

    We do not have detailed information on the percentage of guests from each party, so we unfortunately are unable to provide the data you have suggested.

    Thank you again for contacting us, we value your feedback on ‘Question Time’. All complaints are sent to senior management and our programme production teams every morning and I included your points in this overnight report.

    These reports are among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC and ensures that your complaint has been seen by the right people quickly. This helps inform their decisions about current and future programmes.

    Kind regards

    James Kelly

    BBC Complaints Team

  77. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 28 May, 2018 at 9:55 pm:

    “Best thing for us is to have an embassy in London with tolerance trained diplomats, and let the FM (I prefer that title to PM)”

    You are very right to prefer the title First Minister as opposed to Prime Minister.

    However, the real legal reason for that title may very well surprise many people. Like the numptie, here on Wings the other day who attempted to put down my explanations that The United Kingdom is indeed a Kingdom and not a country by claiming that, “My Olde Worlde”, views were not applicable today.

    Mind you I didn’t notice the same person say a word when Theresa May invoked historic English laws made by an even older English monarchy and used them against Scottish Independence.

    But I digress – The origin of the title referred to, “Her/His Majesty’s”, top man representing the crown in Her/His Majesty’s Parliament in the days before 1688 when the English rule of law was the “Divine Right of Kings”.

    Now note that today, after a General Election, the English Monarch calls in the person she/he will legally appoint as, “Her?His Majesty’s Prime Minister”, and order that person to form Her/His Majesty’s Government.

    So, there you go, the actual full legal title of the office is, “Her Majesty’s Prime Minister”:-

    “The title ‘prime minister’ was originally a term of abuse rather than a description of an official role. It implied that an individual subject had risen improperly above others within the royal circle, and had echoes of a political institution imported from France, England’s great enemy. When Robert Harley, a favourite of Queen Anne (1702-1714), was impeached in 1715, one of the charges against him was that he was a prime minister. The prevailing view at this time was that monarchs should be their own prime ministers.”

    BTW: That Sir Robert Harley mentioned in the above quote is the same Robert Harley who was the English Spy master who employed both William Patterson & Daniel Defoe who were working as English undercover agents to con the Scottish Rich Landowners/Parliamentarians into signing the Treaty of Union.

    Anyone got any ideas why the people of Scotland were never taught these facts in their history lessons at school?

  78. Nana says:

    Compare and contrast, Snp msp looking forward for Scotland

    Some thoughts on the Growth Commission and the opportunity it represents:- for debate, and for Scotland.
    video here

    and this is Tory mouthpiece and failed businessman Jackson Carlow
    video here

    Fears of bad Brexit deal raise tension between Bank and Treasury, report says

  79. mike cassidy says:

    Re the Gove/Davidson dream ticket.

    The columnist was, I think, extracting the urine!

    But, as nana indicates, its the comments – and the comments on the comments – that make interesting reading.

    Some of them don’t even think Davidson is a Conservative!

  80. Nana says:

    Leaving you with this for today, and mind no drinking near screens

  81. paul gerard mccormack says:

    wikipedia keeps a list. i’m just gonna do the numbers myself – since the year 2017 to present and report 🙂

  82. jfngw says:

    The unionist press are getting very excited because they feel the have nurtured a split in the Yes vote. Basically a few ultra lefts that have no actual interest in independence or democracy but want to shape the political scene in their image are not happy. That’s why they now have input to the MSM.

    If they believed in democracy in Scotland they would support independence no matter who became the future government. as it is they crave for what the believe someone like Corbyn will deliver. It’s about gaining power and the UK is a bigger prize, they are no better than the empire builders. I suspect if they grabbed power there would be even left democracy, beware any extreme left or right wing proponents, they are the opposite sides of the same coin.

  83. Cubby says:

    Our media in Scotland is a national disgrace. Propaganda TV channels for the British state and newspapers with journalists who are also just propaganda writers. These so called journalists have no professional or personal integrity. Taking the British state coin to churn out lies and propaganda.
    They deserve no respect. They are a bunch of treacherous barstewards.

    Do not buy their propaganda rags. They deserve to be ignored. Eventually they will bog off to London hoping to get some dog biscuits and a pat from their masters telling them they are a “good boy”. Torrance is probably chewing on some dog biscuits right now in London.

  84. Dan Huil says:

    Meanwhile brexit continues on its self-destructive course. Britnats continue indulging in xenphobia.

    The FM continues to further good relations with Europe. Britnats become even more rabid. The britnat media continues with its anti-Scottish propaganda.

    The so-called united kingdom breathes its last.

  85. Abulhaq says:

    Overheard down the pub.
    Gove and Davidson a winning ticket? Not bloody likely mate their Scotch….more trouble than their worth that lot. Generation Identity UK, that’s the future mate!

  86. yesindyref2 says:

    @jfngw “Not sure why Kevin Hague gets any attention by indy supporters

    For me it’s finding the origins of some of the wilder claims of the Unionists, get to the source, see the rubbish written, and be able to counter it easier.

    A lot of Unionists seem to follow him. Good, he has an over-inflated opinoion of his over-inflation, and so does the media. I hope some in the YES are taking notes, for when it’s important. For some of the things “now is not the time”, as the more widely it gets propogated, the more wrong the Unionists get. That’s my take on it anyway.

  87. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Peffers
    Yes, for me the title “Prime” puts the person above us plebs, whereas “First” just means the first of others, who happens to be the main one. And of course we the people are sovereign, not to be treated as plebs 🙂

  88. Abulhaq says:

    You may never have heard of Identarianism, however you ought to know about it, it is becoming the subtext of modern western politics. The current mess in Italy is shot through with it. It inspires many associated with Brexit. It is an ideological force within Nordic states politics. See link for brief intro.

  89. Abulhaq says:

    That designation should read ‘identitarianism’, a puffed up term for a nasty, flatulent tendency.

  90. louis.b.argyll says:

    Kevin who?

  91. Referendum1707 says:

    O/T but interesting. Clicked on one of Nana’s links yesterday and came across this, check it out.

    As it happens I’ve a couple of acquaintances who are involved in the music biz and I remembered them saying something about cabling requirements for some project or other they’re thinking about. After reading the above exchange I contacted one of them (both rock solid Yes) and referred him to it. The response was that whatever company they chose it wouldn’t be that one. So I then took it on myself to contact Ecosse Cables. Below is the email I sent –

    On 28 May 2018, at 14:29, xxxxxx wrote:

    Has recently come to our attention that Ecosse Cables is an actively anti-Scottish company whose deranged owner appears to have nothing better to do than rant about how Scotland should continue to be subjugated and exploited under WM rule.

    As such you may rest assured that any orders for future cabling requirements will be going elsewhere.

    The response –

    Ecosse (
    To:you Details
    Rest assured Ecosse is the most Scotland-loving Cable company in existence . The clue is in the name

    However xenophobic idiots like u can piss off back to the racist hate hole u came from.

    We dont want liars buying our cables who deny the Scottish people their God given right to decide their future then tell them the didn’t vote correctly so will totally ignore their democratic voting decision.

    We prefer democracy and music lovers and non racists. Clearly your mob hate democracy and what the Scottish people settled in the once in a generation vote.

    Kindly fuck off

    Ecosse-The Name on the Worlds Finest Cables

    Final response to Ecosse Cables –

    xxxxxx (
    To:you (BCC) + 1 more Details

    Don’t forget the meds lol

    Then he gets back to me again –

    Ecosse (
    To:you Details
    Is that the ones your xenophobic mob take in loads.

    #nomeansno. Or do your mob simply hate democracy or just lie to the Scots nation about voting rights

    Ecosse-The Name on the Worlds Finest Cables

    While it might be tempting to feel a bit sorry for such a clearly messed up and ignorant individual just remember that this clown and his ilk would have us left with no rights, no future and nothing but colonialist serfdom.

  92. Vronsky says:

    The results should be weighted to account for the differential degree of media criticism of these leader. That Sturgeon comes out as – um, least bad – is remarkable given the daily onslaught from all sides. Likewise Corbyn, though I fear he deserves some of it.

  93. Macart says:


    And that goes for me too. Mmkay?

    It’s about fighting for everyone’s vision. It’s about bringing the right to choose back into everyone’s hands.

    One principle above ALL others.

  94. ScottishPsyche says:

    I am glad the GC has allowed some to show their true colours. There is not one in that shower of shysters who is genuine about eliminating poverty except for themselves.

    If all it takes is a book deal and an appearance on Shereen, your principles were always up for sale.

  95. Re.,question time when are we going to have representivies of the majority in the U.K. Ordinary working people bus drivers miners postmen shop workers etc.,instead we get the same old establishment luvvies Americans Canadians lawyers bankers al the privelidge class who do not live in the same world as us the whole thing is a complete Farce they do not want to hear the thing they fear most THE TRUTH from ordinary people and the show is run to make sure that is what happens

  96. paul gerard mccormack says:

    OK (this was a day off) so having looked at SNP representation on QT (bums on panel seats) going back to january 2017 (59 editions excluding election night stuff) the SNP didnt do badly considering it is not a UK wide party with 14 appearances in all out of a total of 272 panel seats. or 9% of just political bums on panel seats.

    The SNP has 5.3% of mps and 3% of the votes cast uk wide.

    There were a total of 155 seats given to political parties and 117 given to RW and LW journalists, celebrities and business people.

    What is revealing however, IS the sheer amount of Right wing journalist places given amounting to 40 in all, (as opposed to the SNPs 14) whereas the left wing journos were accorded only 15 appearances.

    This was the most striking statistic; that the voices of the spectator and the telegraph et al are given way undue and unrepresentative prominence on this populist programme.

    I’ll change my complaint then.

  97. Liz g says:

    Robert Peffers @ 10.43
    I had thought that the “prime Ministers”
    actual title was The First Lord of the Treasurey?

  98. Capella says:

    @ Nana – thx for link to the very interesting paper on the position of Belgium on Israel and Palestine. I’m 3/4 of the way through! But a good insight into the complexities of small countries within the EU in respecting international law in the face of the US cowboy approach.
    Well worth a read.

  99. Dr Jim says:

    Drive angry:

    If you want to check the level of bad behaviour in a country start with drivers, but wait, in Scotland road accidents are down, in Scotland road rage incidents are few and far between, here in Scotland general mad speeding drivers are down, and like me many drivers may have noticed a willingness to let other road users out into traffic or to slow for pedestrians even when they’re not crossing the road properly, so one wonders why the BBC decided to do a program on how angry Scottish people are and why, and please phone in and tell us your reasons for coming to that conclusion

    Of course there’s always bad behaviour everywhere for no reason but sometimes there is a reason but that’s another subject, mainly I believe manners on the street and in general have gotten way better in the past few years not worse and compared to when I was a kid our new crop of youngsters are almost a joy, maybe our First Ministers good propaganda about our country is working better than the other Unionist crappy stuff

    If you remove the toxic world of Twitter and the Daily Mail and Scotsman newspapers wherein is contained all the frustrated nutjobs of the universe Scotland is a better place

  100. Archbishop of Dork says:

    Once upon a time Scots had to go to Amazonia or trek across Asia to discover plants.

    Now all we have to do is watch BBC Question Time from Perth.

  101. paul gerard mccormack says:

    Of course, putting my prof robertson hat on very quickly and as quickly as it’ll be removed, i’d say that bums on seats is of course a very crude and simplistic measure of bias. this obviously does not take into account:

    1. audience plants
    2. amount of time given to speakers
    3. interupted time given to speakers by the chair

    and 4. the general clamjamfrey FUBAR broohah that the programme actually is and always has been and will forever be.

    i’d better get some work done now.

  102. Greannach says:

    I didn’t realise until now that Vince Cable is the leader of the Liberals. I thought it was that goofy guy whose name I can never remember.

  103. Dr Jim says:

    Once in a generation they keep shouting, but they don’t seem to understand how long a political generation is

    *Decisions by one parliament may not bind the next*(Jacob Rees Mogg)

    Translated means, every parliament can reverse the decisions of the parliament that went before

  104. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Abulhaq @ 12.46: “Identitarian”

    It certainly is a puffed-up term, but flatulence is a perfectly normal response to too much kebab.

    Got to laugh at wikipedia describing the National Bolshevik Unite Radicale as ‘far right’.

  105. Abulhaq says:

    @Reluctant Nationalist
    Pick n mix politics, the sign of something ‘fascistic’ going on.

  106. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Once upon a time Scots had to go to Amazonia or trek across Asia to discover plants.

    Now all we have to do is watch BBC Question Time from Perth.”

    Made me smile, AoD.

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