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The four estates

Posted on July 07, 2019 by

There’s quite an interesting piece in today’s Sunday National detailing the extremely unequal representation of various parties on the BBC’s network politics shows in the last month, in which readers will be astonished to learn that the SNP (and Scotland in general) come off very poorly.

(Five appearances compared to eight for the Lib Dems, 40 for Labour and a startling 143 for the Tories.)

As it happened, it coincided with our coming by a list of people who’ve appeared on the Corporation’s nightly newspaper-review show, so we wondered whether the brave members of the press whose job it is to scrutinise politics independently might have redressed the balance somewhat.

Let’s find out.

Of 59 guests on the show in the past month, nations represented were as follows:

England: 44
Wales: 4 (three of them Dawn Foster of the Guardian)
Scotland: 3
Northern Ireland: 1
Bangladesh: 1
Canada: 1
France: 1
India: 1
Uganda: 1
USA: 1

Of the three Scottish guests, two were ultra-Unionist newspaper hacks with strong Labour connections and the third was consumer journalist Lynn Faulds-Wood, who’s spent most of her life in England, lives in Twickenham and as far as we’re aware has never expressed any sort of position on Scottish politics, but once considered standing as a candidate against Labour and expressed admiration for former Lib Dem leader Vince Cable.

As you might expect the scales were heavily stacked on the right wing, featuring journalists like Tim Montgomerie (Conservative Home), Isabel Hardman (Spectator), Asa Bennett (Telegraph), Anna Isaac (Telegraph), Claire Cohen (Telegraph), Lucy Fisher (Times), Anne Ashworth (Times), Henry Zeffman (Times), Caroline Wheeler (Sunday Times), Sebastian Payne (Financial Times) and Mike Booker (Daily Express) as well as the likes of Jo Tanner (who ran Boris Johnson’s mayoral election campaign), Lord Digby Jones of the CBI, and think-tankers like Ruth Lea (Institute Of Directors) and Kate Andrews (Institute of Economic Affairs).

(Along with a handful of token lefties like Nicola Bartlett and Nigel Nelson of the Mirror and Jessica Elgot of the Guardian.)

So in 59 attempts, the BBC hasn’t managed to offer viewers a single pundit who might have a slight pro-independence slant, on a show dedicated to reviewing papers which are already mainly right-wing and at least 99% Unionist (we’re not aware of The National ever being mentioned, but we can’t definitively say it wasn’t), and Scotland itself barely gets a look-in at all.

As far as the national BBC is concerned, Scotland barely exists, the political party with the vast majority of its elected representatives barely exists, and its media exists only in the form of Torcuil Crichton, a super-Unionist Labour hack based in Westminster.

Readers can decide for themselves how well they’re being served.


Full list:

5 June
Eve Pollard (England)
Laura Hughes (Canada)

6 June
John Kampfner (England)
Anna Isaac (England)

7 June
Bénédicte Paviot (France)
Kevin Schofield (Scotland)

8 June
Lynn Faulds Wood (Scotland)
Ruth Lea (England)

9 June
Tony Grew (Northern Ireland)
Caroline Frost (England)

10 June
Katy Balls (England)
Lance Price (England)

11 June
Dia Chakravarty (Bangladesh)
David Davies (England)

12 June
David Wooding (England)
Polly Mackenzie (Wales)

13 June
Dawn Foster (Wales)
Lucy Fisher (England)

14 June
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown (Uganda)
Mike Booker (England)

15 June
Penny Smith (England)
John Rentoul (England)

16 June
John Stapleton (England)
Nicola Bartlett (England)

17 June
Henry Bonsu (England)
Lord Digby Jones (England)

18 June
Isabel Hardman (England)
Tim Montgomerie (England)
Faiza Shaheen (England)

19 June
Jo Tanner (England)
Jessica Elgot (England)

20 June
Owen Bennett (England)

21 June
Jason Beattie (England)
Anne Ashworth (England)

22 June
Nigel Nelson (England)
Jo Phillips (England)

23 June
Dawn Foster (Wales)
Joe Twyman (England)

24 June
Henry Zeffman (England)
Rowena Mason (England)

25 June
Sebastian Payne (England)
Kate Proctor (England)

26 June
Baroness Altmann (England)
Mihir Bose (India)

27 June
Claire Cohen (England)
Torcuil Crichton (Scotland)

28 June
Martin Bentham (England)
Pam Lister (England)

29 June
Christina Patterson (England)
Katherine Foster (England)

30 June
Lucy Fisher (England)
John Crowley (England)

1 July
Kate Andrews (USA)
James Rampton (England)

2 July
Asa Bennett (England)
Jess Brammer (England)

3 July
Caroline Wheeler (England)
Dawn Foster (Wales)

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  1. 07 07 19 20:37

    Combatting Propaganda – How to take charge of your own mind | the

234 to “The four estates”

  1. Famous15

    Yes! Cultural AND political imperialism.

  2. Iain 2

    The sooner we are independant, the sooner we can be a normal country

  3. HandandShrimp

    I haven’t watched the paper review for quite a while but it was the utter irrelevance to my political experience that eventually made me lose interest. I didn’t so much turn off in anger as drift away out of boredom.

    It is undoubtedly a Londoncentric right wing chortle over the ashes of democracy. I would imagine Corbyn is the main target these days.

  4. Wee bud

    Just as well the ultra zoomers like Oakeshott ,Pierce and Hartley Brewer are on Sky..

  5. kapelmeister

    It’s as simple as ABC*.

    *The Anglicise Broadcasting Corporation.

  6. Robert Peffers

    Scotland? Wear the fox hat?

  7. wullie

    starved of the oxygen of publicity kind of like Northern Ireland in the past only without the voiceover therefore no publicity at all

  8. Welsh Sion

    … And I guess they are reviewing the ‘English’ editions of said papers, too. Never the National, the Scotsman, the Herald, the Western Mail etc.

    (Apologies, Scotland, I am aware how dire your newspaper media is – outside the National – but my point is that the commentariat barely look at ‘the papers’ outside those published for readers south and east of our borders.)

  9. kapelmeister

    Pish journalists reviewing the words of other pish journalists.

    More incest than interest.

  10. starlaw

    Never watched this in full, its all about England England and English sport. Got better things to do with my time.

  11. galamcennalath

    The actual problem here is that these programmes of English content with English guests discussing England are networked and shown outside England! What should be happening is Scotland should be getting relevant programming.

    We don’t want or need a side show like BBC Scotland, what we need is BBC One, Two, News etc to have their news and current affairs ALL replaced by Scottish output.

    Networking popular drama, entertainment etc, is one thing, forcing Scots to endure irrelevant London information programming needs sorted out. Realistically, it would be until independence.

    The right-left balance aspect is another issue, but that SHOULD be a problem for England to sort out by itself, for itself.

  12. defo

    They call it ‘re-inforcement’, and TPR’s are only a part of it.
    HIGNFY, The News Quiz, Dead Ringers etc all have their digs du jour, to help flavour the zeitgeist.

  13. geeo

    Had to rewind and re watch last nights Sky Papers review!!

    Sunday Mirror Political Editor, Nigel Nelson, agreeing that Scots have a point about Indyref2.

    “and i do have some sympathy with their position, as brexit wasnt on table last time”

    then spoke about how damaging brexit will be, as it would..

    “damage Scotland quite seriously so have every right to say, conditions have changed and we would like another referendum”


    A tiny drip in the ocean, which is so noticeable by it’s difference to the usual narrative ignoring Scotland completely.

    Shows just how accurately the figures in this Article depict reality when such a tiny sentence or two, stands out so boldly.

    SNP threatened to go to Ofcom over the lack of representation during June, and at best, July has been just as bad.

    BBC are not even trying to hide their bias anymore.

    Not sure they ever did, frankly, but it seems more obvious now.

  14. Malky

    It’s just them practising the principle of EGEC – English Guests for English Consumption, or ‘The Full English’ as we say in these parts.

  15. Juteman

    If it happens outside the London commuter zone it never really happened. Only London news is important.
    Even ‘culture’ is the same. All the guff about the London singer Stormzy. Who he? None of the young folk I know are fans, but he is big in London so that is all that matters.

  16. Bob Costello

    All of which leaves the question. Why are the SNP not doing anything about this?
    Are they acquiescing in this delusion of the independence cause?
    Does this suit their agenda?

  17. Capella

    I’m quite happy that they ignorantly chatter amongst themselves. I get quite suspicious when a Scotland based story appears on the home page of the BBC website news. This has started to happen on the odd day lately and I wonder what they are up to.

    As more and more Scots wake with a start and realise they are listening to the endless drone of another country, they may decide that it’s just too boring to stay in the union.

  18. Sinky

    Same with Sky newspaper review. More influential is BBC ten o clock news bulletins which London centric and putting Scottish News bulletin on a minor channel at 9 pm up against prime tv programmes is just a sop and does not address the democratic deficit that gives the Unionists a significant media advantage as happened

  19. Sinky

    In 2014

  20. Capella

    And before you say – ah but you’ve got BBC Scotland – I heard the newspaper review on GMS today with David Clegg (NI unionist) and Alison Rowatt (whiney central belt unionist). Amusingly, they managed to gloss over the Reds Under the Bed story on the front page of the Herald by completely ignoring the fact that this is really about Jim Sillars and his “Edinburgh Russian Conversations” group… “whose members have travelled to the former Soviet Union (i.e. former since 1991) for private meetings with a range of Kremlin linked private institutions and think tanks.”

    Guess what – Sturgeon wasn’t told.

    Why on earth would private citizens tell Nicola Sturgeon every time they fly to a foreign country to have “conversations” with other people. I don’t.
    I imagine she has plenty to do without having to monitor the comings and goings of every private citizen in Scotland. Even the Stasi must have let a few slip through the net.

  21. Sarah

    @Bob Costello: did you not realise that broadcasting powers are Westminster’s? The Smith Commission votes by Labour, Conservative and LibDems were against Scotland getting the right to have the power over its own airwaves.

    The SNP are protesting to the BBC. Have you some ideas about what else they can do? It is a subject that worries me and has done for years because you are right – without more balanced reporting it makes it difficult to get the message across.

    On the other hand Yes almost won in 2014 despite everything. I think Yes will win next time – it would just be a more pleasant experience if we had a balanced media!

  22. Lenny Hartley

    Manx Radio do a newspaper headlines review after Midnight, all English papers however occasionally they mention the Hootsman, I emailed them telling them that the Hootsman is not representative of the people of Scotland and mentioned the National. For a while they occasionally mentioned the National, but have slipped back to the Hootsman again.
    Time for another Email i think.

  23. Cubby

    If IMO we had a balanced media Yes would have won in 2014 and yes would win indyref2 by a margin similar to the 1997 referendum.

  24. Ahundredthidiot

    like watching a snake eating its own tail

  25. Footsoldier

    Yesterday’s AUOB march is not mentioned today at all on the BBC website including BBC Scotland and the same with STV and I have searched quite well , and Scotland on Sunday newspaper does not mention it either although they along with STV do report on an Orange March in Glasgow.

    We are moving into a new dimension where actual news and events in Scotland are being suppressed by sections of the mainstream media. This is a very unhealthy way to conduct politics and constitutional matters.

  26. galamcennalath

    Sarah says:

    Yes will win next time – it would just be a more pleasant experience if we had a balanced media!

    With a balanced media we would have won in 2014.

    There’s a twist to all this, though. The media is SO unbalanced it is being perceived as an afront and an outrage by more and more people. IMO it has reached the point of being counter productive (from a BritNat perspective).

    “more pleasant experience” …. won’t it be great if the process of disengaging from the Union was handled with courtesy, honesty, and good will? I know, I dream. Perfidious Albion isn’t going to change for us. But, it doesn’t need to be quit so devious and underhand!

  27. Dr Jim

    In Scotland there are only about 8.000 Tories who will decide Scotland’s new master, but even amongst them they can’t decide which master that will be

    Then we have the Len McCluskey party (formerly the Labour party) who are in the same category of hardly any people in Scotland wanting them either, but we are assured by Ian Murray that Ricky Leonard (Scottish Labour leader is case you didn’t know)has full *autonomy* to speak different words to the Len McCluskey party but no authority to do anything about those words

    John McDonnell of the Len McCluskey party says there’ll be a general election in September and it’ll all be fine then

    Meanwhile in Scotland the SNP Scottish government the party with the most MPs, most MSPs, most MEPs, most councillors is completely ignored by the press and visual media on the grounds that well, there’s less of us in the regional territory of Scotland and the Politicians, friends and *journalistic chums* of those politicians in England tend to be taller and speak with a more recognisable Englishy voice thus making them irrefutably more important than all the separatist politicians in Scotland, who the people actually vote for and want obviously

    The media has an incredibly difficult job here in attempting to create the illusion of there not being bias against Scotland and ignoring Scotland altogether, so not mentioning Scotland seems to be the strategy adopted by the media by reason of *the importance of Brexit* above all other considerations, and they reckon that will absolve them of their responsibility to Scotland because again there aren’t very many of us so job done and all complaints will be dealt with by replies stating that premise, Phew!

    In the last year in Scotland around 250.000 people have marched in different locations all over Scotland in favour of Independence, that may not seem like much to a person in England because they’ve had demonstrations of up to a million people for causes, but a million people out of fifty five million people is a drop in the ocean compared to 250.000 out of 5.4 million and that’s just the people who could manage to come out and not miss their work or child minding duties or just because of distances to travel
    because conrary to popular belief in England Scotland is a massive country geographically of 32.000 square miles or so and logistically more difficult to travel around in time wise

    So there’s your choices folks the Len McCluskey party that is languishing in the polls at 18% UK wide or the Tory Brexit party at around 23% or the full Brexit total nut jobs at 22%

    And in Scotland the SNP are on around 40% with a triple lock Mandate for Independence and a 57% polling fugure to support that plus projections for around 56 MPs to be elected if there’s a general election

    But who can argue with the BBC that the big England is definitely more relevant and more important and just more betterer than Scotchland where the only party that people actually want(SNP) are ignored

    We should propbably be a tad more angry than we actually are y’know

  28. galamcennalath

    Malky says:

    It’s just them practising the principle of EGEC – English Guests for English Consumption

    I agree. And I think that’s fine. Except, of course, it’s used for Scottish consumption too.

    So what is this really all about? Why is it happening?

    Obviously there are different explanations… most of the UK is England so it’s a simple one size fits all approach, or, it’s driven by the believe that England is the UK, or, it’s a conspiracy to stop Scots thinking they’re different.

    Cock up or conspiracy? A bit of both where the cock up conveniently hides evidence of conspiracy.

  29. winifred mccartney

    All of the above is a disgrace but ven yesterday telling audience who was watching Wimbledon (you would think pretty inocuous) it was the English Rugby captain, the english this the english that and then it was the British for the Scottish women golfer – and they still say the bbc is impartial – they live and work on planet establishment.

  30. Robert Peffers

    @Bob Costello says: 7 July, 2019 at 11:44 am:

    … All of which leaves the question. Why are the SNP not doing anything about this?”

    And there it is, I’m surprised it took so long but there it is – SNP BAAAADDDD! It’s all the SNP’s fault – What is Nicola Sturgeon going to do about it? Are the SNP getting too comfortable in office?

    Do these people imagine we Scots for independence zip up the back?

  31. Giving Goose

    If it’s any consolation then opinions in England regarding the BBC are also negative.
    Tune into Nick Ferrari on LBC for a flavour.
    The entire English Establishment is trying to balance itself on the head of a pin. And wobbling wildly.
    It’s all going to go to shit very soon.
    Just be patient. Their fuckup is our opportunity.

  32. Jules

    Minor complaint Stu… your use of the term ‘national BBC’ to mean, presumably, the BBC that broadcasts to the whole of the UK.

    I’m not really a flag-waving, tub-thumping ‘nationalist’, but my nation is Scotland, and only Scotland. So the term ‘national’, to me, means encompassing the whole of Scotland – not the collection of nations that is the UK.

  33. CameronB Brodie

    The BBC is not a liberal institution, it is the voice of Tory ethos and (white) British nationalism.

  34. Dr Jim

    If Nicola Sturgeon does anything more than speak or use normal political channels she could end up where the President of Catalonia is

    I don’t believe for one second that the UK government wouldn’t contemplate charging the SNP and it’s leader with something, anything if they thought they could get away with it, and the Len McCluskey party wouldn’t be abstaining on that one either

    Some folk need to remove from their minds that there’s some kind of democracy going on in this Union

    There’s some serious stuff going on at the top that we don’t get telt about, if they can *get* the FM they will

  35. Effijy

    Can this info be passed to the BBC for comment.
    Be nice to ask all the Unionist press if they would like to use this mirror

  36. Robert Peffers

    Those with good memories may remember me getting a bit of stick a long time ago when I commented that we only needed to keep allowing them enough rope and eventually they would hang themselves and that goes also for the MSM, the Broadcasters and the Conservative, Labour and LibDem parties.

    The lot of them are now standing on the gallows trapdoor and they are intent upon selecting a new leader of the Tory party who will have his hand on the trapdoor lever.

  37. Giving Goose

    Spot on Robert!

  38. Shug

    Bbc is now on full war footing with both leaders stating no indy ref 2

  39. CameronB Brodie

    re. BBC bias. Time for some Critical Media Studies?

    Jeremy Corbyn according to the BBC: ideological representation and identity construction of the Labour Party leader


    There have been many complaints that the BBC coverage of the rise of Jeremy Corbyn has been partial and biased. This paper is part of an interdisciplinary project on the television representation of Jeremy Corbyn that brings together scholars in the disciplines of linguistics (critical discourse analysis), journalism and politics. The paper is a small scale case study examining the coverage of Jeremy Corbyn’s speech on the 28th September 2016 after he won the leadership by election for the second time in a year.

    In the first stage we compared the scripting of the reports for the main national UK TV news programmes and the representation of the Labour leader’s identity offered to viewers. In the second, we also evaluate Newsnight, a BBC programme coverage of a slightly different genre, which constructed Corbyn as a particular kind of leader. In addition to the verbal text of the reports, we considered the interplay between the presenter and political correspondent and their tone. This enabled us to broaden our critical discourse analysis to a multimodal investigation and tease out non-textual, nuanced ways of creating partiality. We concluded that some BBC coverage does demonstrate bias and partiality against Corbyn in subtle modes where tone alters the meaning of the script and visuals and the BBC fared badly compared to other mainstream TV news.

    Key words: Corbyn, identity representation, speech representation, BBC, impartiality

  40. CameronB Brodie

    And a bit more.

    Report reveals biased BBC has “high dependency” on the Conservatives for statistics

    A study by Cardiff University’s School of Journalism, Media and Cultural Studies has revealed that the BBC has a “high dependency” on the Conservative Party for statistics. The study was used by the BBC Trust to conduct a report called ‘Making Sense of Statistics’, and confirmed that the Tories are responsible for three-quarters of the statistics that the BBC receives from political sources.

    The BBC Trust report brings the impartiality of the BBC into question, and states that the corporation should not be so content with reporting statistics “straight from a press release”. It also concluded that the BBC has failed to “go beyond the headlines”….

  41. Artyhetty

    It’s always a good idea to ignore those who are actually keeping your lights on, ie Scotland. It would be interesting to look at how representation of political parties and the nations of the UK has changed since devolution. Although on second thoughts, maybe we have better things to do.

    Pretending Scotland is an irrelevance, whereas before they attempted to portray Scotland as narrow nationalist to the outside world, that failed. How much do they take from the people of Scotland by way of the tv tax?

    Scotland, they are taking the absolute p**s if you still pay the tellytax, unless you need it for political reasons, to see what they are not saying and doing.

    It’s all very sinister, they are attempting to write Scotland out of the present, so who knows what plans they have for the future. We can guess, but the right wing and pretendy lefties, with all the levers of power and money, are a dangerous lot to say the least.

    Get out, run Scotland, before it’s too late.

  42. Breeks

    Sarah says:
    7 July, 2019 at 12:06 pm
    @Bob Costello: did you not realise that broadcasting powers are Westminster’s? The Smith Commission votes by Labour, Conservative and LibDems were against Scotland getting the right to have the power over its own airwaves.

    The SNP are protesting to the BBC. Have you some ideas about what else they can do? It is a subject that worries me and has done for years because you are right…

    Yes, I did. I suggested right after the Brexit result that Scotland should host one European Summit after another here in Scotland, inviting European movers and shakers and their attendant Press Corps to Scotland, with a media hub in Edinburgh or Glasgow producing all sorts of sound bites and footage which would find its way onto social media. I even suggested a Festival of Journalism.

    By now, we’d have had three years of pro-EU, pro-Scotland, pro-fessional news journalism, but most importantly, an alternative source of mainstream Press information that was totally independent of the BritNat mainstream propaganda. With prudent liaison, we might even have encouraged foreign broadcasters to sponsor a formal network of Scottish correspondents… the “go to” place for Scottish news.

    Furthermore, rather than pussyfoot around with futile complaints about the dysfunctional UK State Broadcaster to the dysfunctional UK State Regulator, the Scottish Government should have gone for the BBC’s jugular, and citing the BBC’s dismal performance, created a post to function as Scottish Regulator monitoring broadcasting performance, (a post which might be extended to cover every other “reserved” portfolio; Broadcasting, Constitution, etc), which would monitor the performance of UK reserved government and build a case against it wherever it was creating disadvantage for Scotland, with a view to declaring any shortcoming due cause for Scotland to take back control of the issue.

    Yes, Westminster devolves power to Holyrood, but only after Scotland first “devolves” administrative power to Westminster. If they abuse that power, the sovereign people of Scotland can elect to remove it from their control.

    I also argued way back in 2014 after YES defeat that a snap Plebiscite should have been called to hold the Unionists to their commitment for more Powers to Scotland. Rather than allowing them to wriggle off the hook, a Plebiscite might have allowed the people of Scotland to choose those powers. I think The Establishment would have had a very difficult time obstructing the return of powers demanded by Democratic Plebiscite, and Scotland could have paved the way for Scottish Broadcasting back in 2014/15.

    Nobody listened then, and I fully expect they won’t listen now. It’s what the SNP does best.

  43. Calum McKay

    No surprise, Scotland is being ignored for fear of having to explain what the union is for.

    What I find bizarre is that the bbc can present the news on the tory candidates appearing in Perth as a serious event where Scotland is centre stage.

    Has it ever occurred to the bbc that these candidates have to V I S I T Scotland and or how many times have they done so in the past ten years prior to this farcical tory leadership contest?

    The bbc in Scotland has been the main champion for the union, if it wasn’t for the bbc and it’s long standing and unflinching unionist bias, Scotland would have been free in 2014 and we would be looking on at brexit the same way as the Irish are, with 27 firm allies behind them.

  44. galamcennalath

    Calum McKay says:

    free in 2014 and we would be looking on at brexit the same way as the Irish are, with 27 firm allies

    28 🙂

    Because there would probably have been 29 members, inc Scotland.

    The contrast between the influence Ireland has been able to exercise, the fact that the UK has had to do what it’s told, and sadly Scotland is totally ignored, could be greater. We could have just like Ireland – a full member, with powerful allies.

    Here’s a question, though. If Scotland had departed in say 2015/16, would rUK have opted for rBrexit? Probably not because their economy would have taken a big hit and they wouldn’t be in the mood for more disruption. Also, their self esteem, sense of exceptionalism, assumed entitlement would also have taken a knock. Brought down to earth, one way and another.

  45. David P

    Could someone post the text or an archive to the following?

    I’m stuck in France and unable to access!

    Thanks. David

  46. Donald MacKenzie

    “We should probably be a tad more angry than we actually are y’know”

    Dr Jim, I couldn’t agree more. The problem is that how do we let people know we’re angry if you have the mainstream media so biased against our arguments?

  47. Undeadshaun

    Dont know if anyone noticed this before, a lot farms round my way have agrico signs.

    Turns out their a uk subsidiary of a Dutch company, who had their hq in England, but moved it to Scotland in 1998.

  48. call me dave

    SNP Plan ‘B’

  49. Shug

    Does anyone think it likely that bbc employees might blow the gaff on their instructions to block snp reporting and if not what should be done about them post indy

  50. Doug

    Incestuous media types rule the airwaves. Boycott.

  51. Republicofscotland

    Thank goodness for the National, its obvious we in Scotland aren’t being served at all let alone well.

    News aside, Scottish content on the main terrestrial channels one to five is virtually non existent. As for our news channels, I say ours in a very loose way, its as plain as the nose on your face that they are unionist leaning.

    Even after independence it will be a uphill battle to change these institutions in Scotland to produce any favourable news about Scotland. I wonder how many Scottish newspapers are sold in England, which decry England’s ability to be an independent nation.

  52. David

    Hey Rev, don’t know if it’s a typo or if your calculator has a touch of Jackie-Baillie-itis, but shouldn’t it be 58 reviewers and not 59?

  53. galamcennalath

    SNP Plan ‘B’

    No Section 30, then first election will be considered a plebiscite on Indy. Fair enough. Our sovereignty needs to be expressed, one way or another.

    Is this just a proposal from the two sponsoring politicians, or it it really SNP leadership policy which they want adopted via the conference?

  54. Mac

    @ Donald Mackenzie

    By non violent civil disobedience.

  55. Iain mhor

    Well, as @Footsoldier @Robert Peffers suggest, they are just hanging themselves. More ‘c’onservative Scots are starting to notice now.
    When even the locals don’t know there was a big rally on – when they find out on the day and look for their pictures in the paper, or hope to see their sons and daughters, nieces, nephews or grandweans on the telly, they are sore disapppointed.
    My folks were going to visit yesterday, but I sent them a photo and said “you’ll not see me on the telly though”, they just replied “Aye we known that”.

    It’s not just those close to the Independence movement noticing either. Where it may have been dismissed in the past as ‘only the SNP and Independence being affected’, it has come to the rest also. Their events, their local news, the absence of their Parliament – Scotland is being proscribed around them. They’re wakening to that with every blatant omission.

    The media in Scotland have shit the bed and aren’t even pretending anymore. Most media and ‘journalism’ takes its cue from the government of the day, so no surprises there. But their shilling must be gilt for any Scotsman to still work in it and look themselves in the mirror every morning.

    Is that why the spite and bile emanates from one direction? They know what they’re doing and despise themselves. Who is holding the mirror to them? Those are the cause of of their self-loathing obviously – never agents of their own actions. Crush, maim and destroy the mirror holders.

    As for Independence, well there’s always hope – As I overheard yesterday “I don’t think we’ll ever put the lid on them” – sounded like resignation to me and that is just one step away from giving up.

  56. Scott

    Remember last year MSM and Tory farmers were up in arms about SG not paying farmers on time,well why have we not seen anything about this from them.

    SNP Government beats EU farmer benefit payments target: Ruthless Tory gentlemen farmers celebrate

    All credit for TALKING-UP SCOTLAND Prof John Robertson for this.

  57. mr thms

    I posted in an recent Wings article that BBC Breakfast pretend that devolution does not exist. The bulk of their articles are “England Only” and the presenters smugly assert these apply to either ‘the British’ or relate to either ‘Britain’ or ‘the UK’ when the items I watched clearly did nothing of the sort.

    Complaining is a waste of time as I recently pointed out to them that the Rockall news was to do with Theresa May giving the signatories of the 1964 London Fisheries Convention (that included Ireland) two years notice back in July 2017 that it was pulling out of the Convention at that time or on Brexit Day whichever was later. The Convention allows fishing boats to fish between 6 and 12 nm of the shore.

    Were they bothered?

    What do you think?

  58. starlaw

    Ian mhor ;3-17

    The media may be trying to bury what is happening in Scotland, and may very well be successfully doing so in England and Wales. However the people that count are the people of Scotland and every body in Ayr knows what took place there yesterday, and how it was not reported by the media, this applies to the people of Oban, Galashiels and everywhere these marches take place The Media are proving themselves unfit for purpose to the people of Scotland every time these events take place.

  59. Maid_in_Scotland

    Slightly o/t for which apologies, but I happened to look in on Sky News late one evening during the ‘paper review’ and a woman (no idea who) was waffling on about the Hong Kong situation and ended by telling viewers that the British had summoned the Chinese Ambassador to ‘give him a good talking to’. Best laugh I’d had all day. It’s the British way don’tyaknow. You’ve gotta put these foreign persons in their place and let them know who’s boss.

    However, on a more serious note, I have no doubt that our own FM has been given ‘a good talking to’ on a number of occasions with veiled threats about retaliation (certainly in terms of economics and politics). We should bear that in mind before launching in with endless criticisms of what the SNP and the FM are or are not doing right here and now. She has a duty to protect her country and all its citizens first and foremost and then she needs a robust mandate, that means a very healthy majority, from the people of Scotland where there can be no doubt about the message, so that even the media would have to accept it. Robert Peffers and Dr Jim, amongst a few others, understand what I’m getting at, I think.

  60. Dr Jim

    “It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an Independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose”

    The Smith Commission..
    Paragraph 18
    27 November 2014

    The UK Guv keep sayin NO but they already said YES and agreed to it and signed it

    Let’s bear something else in mind neither Boris Johnson or Jeremy Hunt is Prime Minister, both are just MPs begging their own party to elect them to that position, if and when either of them are elected the question of constitutional change in the UK becomes a real question (at the moment it’s hypothetical so they can say what they like, it holds no legal relevance) they will have to answer whereas at the moment both of these men are electioneering for the benefit of their own party members

    I could stand in the middle of the street and yell none shall pass until the law comes along and proves me wrong

    The First Minister in one of her statements to the media on this question said “This position will *prove* to be unsustainable”

    The only way the UK government can deny a section 30 order of transfer of power to form an agreement is for the UK to state that Scotland is NOT a country but a territory of the UK which is also not legally a country but a Union of countries to which Scotland is the other half, so the legal position becomes undeniable as the UKs own Advocate General himself has admitted

    Nicola Sturgeons statement of *prove to be unsustainable* is thus correct

    Both these *candidates* are at this moment just bumping their gums or flapping their lips, whichever phrase you fancy using

    If this goes to court the UK will lose, but I don’t believe it will get that far, they’ll grant the order and scream caveats and threats and doom and disaster but they’ll do it just the same then mount their campaign of calamity and hope to win or at least kick it as far away into the distance as they can with the follow up negotiations, but the SNP won’t let them and that’s when I believe you’ll see the S in SNP standing for Samurai

    The UK is a doomed enterprise, a dead parrot, met it’s maker, gone to the great Imperialist heaven in the Sky, and they know it

    Doesn’t mean they won’t bare their teeth first though

  61. Jack Murphy

    STV News On-Line Today:

    ‘SNP majority in parliament ‘should spark Indy negotiations’

    This STV News Report seems firmly balanced to me—-it’s a pity it’s not always reflected on their live Scottish Television News.

    C’mon STV News, the BBC has handed you an open goal. [smiley emoji]

  62. Zen Broon

    It is not just the unprofessional imbalance of these London bubble crony shows, they set the terms, tone and topics of the political discourse across the British media.

  63. CameronB Brodie

    Iain mhor
    As far as I aware, sociopaths tend to have zero guilt. Same for wanks. As the BBC in Scotland is clearly anti-Scotland, I’d guise that a fair few of ‘our’ media talking heads fall into either category. Remember, British nationalism is a harmful social pathology, a delusional state of exceptionalism and entitlement. 😉

  64. CameronB Brodie

    British nationalism and self-ID are made for each other.

  65. CameronB Brodie

    Remember also, British nationalism is a form of cultural patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts the poor and destroys the planet. Patriarchy is bad, mk.

    Patriarchy, gender, infantilisation: A cultural account of police intelligence work in Scotland

  66. Lenny Hartley

    Oh dearie me from the Daily Heil on Sunday, quote Nigel Farage has called for Britain’s ambassador to the US to be sacked after it was claimed he had described Donald Trump’s White House as ‘uniquely dysfunctional’ and ‘inept’. Leaked memos obtained by the Mail on Sunday detail Sir Kim Darroch’s assessments of the Trump administration from 2017 to the present. The publication of the comments is likely to spark a fresh diplomatic row between London and Washington and risks causing the government and the Foreign Office major embarrassment. The emergence of the remarks come just weeks after the UK rolled out the red carpet for Mr Trump during his state visit at the start of June.. unquote
    Think they can kiss goodby to that trade deal now 🙂 according to the radio news I heard a “British” Government spokesperson said that the memo did not necessary reflect the views of the British Government, not much of a slapdown that is it 🙂

  67. Al-Stuart

    Execellent article thank you Stuart. About time someone looked into this.

    I believe that Scotland will risk NOT getting independence all the while the BBC keep pushing their mass audience and provably bias agenda. Surely all of us here at WoS have it within our gift…

    To crowdfund a legal action against the BBC for that putrid organisation BREACHING it’s own charter? The BBC are nullifying the legitimacy of millions of pounds it receives from Scotland.

    Oh the joy of seeing these BBC executives have a taste of their own medicine: they are quick enough to convict and criminalise thousands of citizens who don’t pay their TV Licence?

    If the BBC can take tens of thousands of people to court to boost BBC revenue, then when the BBC violate their charter and breach their contract, I would put £100 into a WoS crowdfunder to take those responsible at BBC (particularly BBC Scotland) to court and challenge the right of that disreputable BIAS organisation to be given the money we are forced to pay.

    All we need is someone who is an expert at researching information, dissecting data and exquisitely presenting the files so that a legal team has all they need to issue a writ. Now where do we find such a person? Oh wait, we have Rev. Stuart Campbell ???.

    Now where do I sign up…

  68. Abulhaq

    A succinct definition of what is going on here.
    Hawaii here we come….NOT!

  69. Tatu3

    Could someone explain please what they think the reasoning is for the SNP waiting until end of 2020 to have indy2. Genuine question. I’d like to understand.

  70. Clapper57

    Had fun day out at Ayr yesterday.

    Firstly got off Edinburgh train at Glasgow Queen street to walk to central station………right at same time as OO march…my husband and I had to walk to central station and this involved having to cross road ….not allowed unless they stop and someone ushers you across the road.

    So we walked and walked and eventually they stopped and one of their ushers gestured for us to cross road.. got to Ayr and went on march had a really good day….then left got train from Ayr to Central station.

    When got off train at central station a guy was getting on train started to shout at an old guy on platform who was carrying Scotland flag …he shouted ” There’ll no be f**king independence in my lifetime you old B”.

    Then we got on train at Queen street to Edinburgh…sat down and two guys sat opposite us….one young and one old…turned out they had both been in Glasgow for OO march…older guy apparently had come all the way up from Newcastle for it and had left his mates in Glasgow….when we got off the train I said to my husband….that felt like we were sitting on a train opposite two SS officers and I was frightened they would find out who we were and what we supported….that is what it is like in Scotland….where you feel intimidated and have to hide supporting your own country’s independence for fear for your own personal safety…..that is NOT right but it is what the Scottish Tories seem to find acceptable because they know these people will lend their vote to them to maintain the Union Jack as a symbol of English and religious oppression towards Scotland and Catholics.

    My husband said you cannot reason with these people and the Newcastle guy’s arms were covered in tattoos and he had had a few drinks….I think the younger guy knew what we were as my husband told him we had been in Ayr….but he seemed the more reasonable and laid back of the two….and he didn’t ask us why we were in Ayr…my husband said if he had he would have told him…..not sure that would have been wise.We had to listen to them both the whole journey…though young guy got off at Linlithgow…was very very uncomfortable for me…the tension brought on a killer of a headache which eased only when got off train at Edinburgh.

    This is what rabid Unionism coupled with rabid religious intolerance has infested our country with…where one feels oppressed and has to hide what you believe in just in case one is spat on or physically assaulted ..brought it home to me big style.

    Could not wait to get back to Edinburgh and the train journey was shit end to a wonderful day…..perhaps Adam T and Murdo of the WATP tribe could explain to me why I should feel like an outsider in my own country and why I should have to hide what I believe in…..they must know the tribal politics they promote will ultimately be their downfall as the argument is too reliant on bias, bigotry and negativity….think Scotland is moving on from that ….how many yesterday at OO march were Scottish…how many were English…Irish….I think we would be shocked by the numbers of non Scots attending that Glasgow march….or probably not.

    In fairness to the two guys in question…. nothing happened but it was the knowledge that should we have been exposed as Indy supporters we could have been in a precarious position and that in itself made it a tense journey for me….for what ?….for wanting what should be seen as something normal… especially but not exclusive to what is being presented as a very much English driven Brexit .

    Sorry for O/T long post but it did spoil what was a warm , friendly and uplifting day….such a downer to end it on….went to WOS stall but was too afraid to speak to anyone…sure I saw Ronnie A sitting on chair at front of stall but maybe wrong…introduced myself once to him in Edinburgh…he probably cannot remember….maybe next time I will have courage to speak to someone !

  71. CameronB Brodie

    Please don’t think I’m trying to undermine the SNP or our cause. I’m trying to help the SNP avoid making a mahoosive strategic error. One that I believe would undermine our cause.

    Why Patriarchy Persists (and How We Can Change It)

    Patriarchy, like most forms of oppression, has a way of trying to convince us that, in the words of the Crunk Feminist Collective “things are the way they are because they have to be, that they have always been that way, that there are no alternatives and that they will never change.”

  72. Sinky

    Tatu3 says:

    Scottish Parliament has to pass necessary legislation to enable a consultative referendum (like what Brexit was) otherwise the result would be challenged in Court or a Unionist Presiding Officer saying it is not competent.

  73. David P

    Thanks to call me dave for the link (2.29pm) to the story in The National.

  74. gus1940

    Re The BBC

    In recent weeks we have had the withdrawal of the universal free Over 75’s TV Licence followed by last week’s release of the obscene salaries paid to performers most of whom are in Sport and Light Entertainment.

    The latter raises the question of just why is a State Broadcaster involving itself in Light Entertainment and spending countless millions on Sport and compelling us to pay through the nose for it whether or not we want to watch it.

    The Tories having privatised everything else previously state owned but desperately hang on to The BBC and it is pretty obvious that the reason is its value as a propaganda tool.

    I cannot see why a state broadcaster should not only have responsibility solely for News and Current Affairs with perhaps Documentaries as an add-on.

    Just think of the millions possibly billions which the government could raise from the sell-off of the rest including the archive.

    The US manages to do without a domestic state owned broadcaster except for the propaganda outlets like Voice Of America and Radio Free Europe which are for foreign consumption.

    I am not in possession of the facts about the situation in the rest of The EU regarding state owned broadcasters but would be interested if somebody could produce of a list of which countries have one and what areas of content they cover i.e. do they include Light Entertainment and Sport.

    How many other countries have a compulsory licence?

  75. Abulhaq

    As long as the Edinburgh parliament acts like a subsidiary assembly, a vassal of Westminster and its constitutional legalism we are not going to advance.
    At some point the SNP has got to turn its back on this alien servitude and break ‘their rules’.

  76. galamcennalath


    Sept 2020 is probably the latest date for Indyref2.

    Nicola always qualifies statements about timescale by saying “it can be accelerated “.

    A lot of scenarios are possible in the next six months – a general election with heaven knows what outcome, an attempt at ‘no deal’ Brexit which may or may not pass, and even an EURef2 or cancellation. We do need some clarity IMO.

    Then there’s the Section 30 thingy – go without or (as has appeared) turn the next election into a de facto IndyRef2.

  77. CameronB Brodie

    OT re. Iain Macwhirter’s column on Tories. British nationalism is the practice of Tory tradition and ethos. Undo Britain and you undermine the Tory identity. The world would be a healthier and happier place without English/British Tory exceptionalism.

    The Rise of a Political Englishness?


    From English Votes for English Laws to the rise of Ukip, Englishness is a growing feature of British politics. Michael Kenny examines the rise of English national identity as a political force.

  78. Lenny Hartley

    Gus 1940 to save Auld Bob the bother , the TV licence is not a licence to fund or watch the BBC ,its a licence to allow reception of Live TV Signals whether they be Terrestial, Satellite ,Internet or BBC Catchup.

  79. Mac

    Britannia Unchained

    Scotland needs to breakaway from this situation now.

    I’ve said it before. A new Independent Scotland remaining in the EU, may actually be part of a bigger solution for what will come to pass on these islands.

    Britannia Unchained? What they don’t appreciate is that we are witnessing the end of the Empire. It will not rise again.

    And during the fall, people will only be pushed so far before they revolt and change the order of things.

    There will be ‘Rivers of blood’ but the cause will not be as Enoch Powell imagined, but rather from the people who were duped into Brexit by populist politics and then find their children and grandchildren struggling on the edifices of corporate conservatism and the total freedom of corporations to monopolise, operate largely unregulated, avoid taxes and pay employees the bare minimum.

    There always has and there always will be conflict of interest between the Corporations’ Profits and the Employees, Customers and average citizens. Unless we are ready to return to the days before the Truck Acts, we need to resist Brexit and the ‘Britannia Unchained’ press gang in every way we can.

  80. Confused

    – that was the best post for days; I could feel your crawling unease, and its not acceptable anymore.

  81. Mac

    Austerity saved just over 4bn since the Lib Dems helped the Tories into power, and George Osborne slashed the benefits that would hurt the sick and the poor most.

    Osborne sold one of the banks that the Taxpayers had bailed out during the financial crisis, early and for less than the purchase price. We lost 22bn.

    Over five times what we saved in Austerity pograms.

    It was a cull of the unfortunate in society.

    If the sign of a humane country is how they treat their old, sick and poor… then indeed the UK lost its humanity and is on the path to additional social cleansing with Brexit.

  82. Mac

    Abuse of power is never so obvious than when it’s shoved in your face, by would be PM’s, promising to spend billions more than was ever saved by austerity. And then admitting that ‘perhaps austerity had gone too far’.

    We live in a very sick country.

  83. gus1940


    I am well aware of that fact – perhaps I failed to express myself clearly.

  84. Mac

    Programs not pograms – Spelling, not a Freudian slip. Or was it?

  85. Haggishunter

    This thread highlights a huge issue and this is where Wings surpasses any other media outlet or blog and does a great service to Scotland to provide truth, for which I am very grateful.
    I talked with a hardline yoon recently, actually he was an extremist, who told me the BBC is an impartial independent organisation and the Indy movement is extremist, when I reminded him of George square and the nazi saluting thugs he got obnoxious.
    The unionist movement is becoming more extremist and blinkered, and like the twat I recently talked with (who is a weedy little shite (sadly married to my cousin (and she can’t stand him either)) unable to see past its own propaganda which we are bombarded with

  86. ben madigan

    @clapper 57 – appreciated your story about fear of the OO and its potential for violence
    Compare and contrast any AUOB march with “having to cross road ….not allowed unless they stop and someone ushers you across the road”.

    This was followed by your worries about getting yourself and husband out of a threatening situation in one piece with no harm done to either of you.

    This what the OO stands for – intimidation and oppression of free thought and speech

    “rabid Unionism coupled with rabid religious intolerance has infested our country with…where one feels oppressed and has to hide what you believe in just in case one is spat on or physically assaulted”.

    Never let anyone forget they are a pseudo-military organisation which enjoys the support of all Westminster Governments (There’s even a Westminster Orange Lodge) and so they can get away with whatever they do.

  87. admiral

    Mac says:
    7 July, 2019 at 6:08 pm
    Britannia Unchained

    Just read it. Scary – we are all going to be forced into a modern form of serfdom, where huge unaccountable and unregulated corporations control all aspects of our lives, aided and abetted by a government intent on throwing the well-being of its citizens to the wolves of international capital, instead of undertaking its duty to protect us.

    Scotland, time to discharge ourselves from the madhouse while we still can.

  88. Welsh Sion

    You probably know this from your own sources (but not the State broadcaster), Scotland. But, just in case – and for you to see how Cymru is reporting developments.

    (Translation as always: WS + Google Translate)

    “SNP preparing for second Scottish independence referendum”
    7 July 2019 at 14:09 Updated at 14:11

    Gaining a majority in Holyrood or increasing their presence at Westminster could be enough for the SNP to proceed with plans for a second independence referendum, according to leading party members.

    It is believed that the party could push for a vote by 2020, and Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister has already said that she favours holding a new vote in the second half of next year.

    Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, both of whom are battling to become the next prime minister in the UK, have already said they are opposed to a second referendum.


    But the SNP intends to put forward a motion for debate at the party’s winter conference in October.

    It is calling for a second referendum by the autumn of 2020 and if the British Government were opposed to it, they could go on and demand that they have a mandate to start negotiations.

    “The people of Scotland have been consistently overlooked by the UK Government,” said Christopher McEleny, leader of Inverclyde Council, one of the two proposers of the motion.

    “We want to hold a referendum to give people the choice between becoming a normal independent country or remaining part of a UK that still forces policies and governments on Scotland that we reject.”

    But the Conservatives in Scotland still insist that “there is no support among Scots for another independence referendum”.


  89. CameronB Brodie

    Impartial broadcasting is hard to achieve, though somewhat ironically, experience in the EU suggests that states with a state broadcasting service tend to experience less right-wing extremism and authoritarianism. The BBC would appear to be the exception that proves the rule (see the 2014 indyref, austerity and the full-English Brexit).

    Not a direct answer to your question but an indication of the disruption the full-English Brexit can be expected to produce.

    Frequently asked questions on broadcasting and on demand services after the UK leaves the EU

  90. CameronB Brodie

    I’ve made the same error/Freudian slip, when referring to the full-English Brexit as similar to Stalinist totalitarianism. 🙂

  91. CameronB Brodie

    I got the muddle the wrong way around though, describing the full-English Brexit as a program, rather than a pogram. 😉

  92. Abulhaq

    Scotland should have ‘days of rage’ against this bondage, this political and cultural bondage.
    The union with England had all the faux trappings of legality but we know it was a ‘scam’ enabling England to effectively annex Scotland.
    Illusions, delusions about partnership are unilateral and cause a wry smile among the English establishment. We should wipe that smile from its face.

  93. Hamish100

    Abulhaq says:
    7 July, 2019 at 5:42 pm
    As long as the Edinburgh parliament acts like a subsidiary assembly, a vassal of Westminster and its constitutional legalism we are not going to advance.
    At some point the SNP has got to turn its back on this alien servitude and break ‘their rules’.

    Oh please all wise ones, how?

    Of course people trying to force the hand of the SNP is not new. Timing is everyything and slinky and albu hacker – your posts won’t do it. Lol

  94. Hamish100

    Days of rage.

    Are you feeling ok abuhacker. To much sun and vino I do worry about you.

  95. call me dave

    It’s perfectly possible that Yes are ahead already

  96. Clapper57

    @ Confused & Ben Madigan

    Thanks for reading my over long post and empathising how I felt in this situation….was worried that someone might comment that my husband should have done or said something or that I was being a bit over indulgent in relating my experience on here……my husband is older than me and he has high blood pressure so I am glad he didn’t but I was almost passing out at the thought that potentially he might and was worried more for him than myself….though I was quite scared….trust me my husband felt a wee bit intimidated too and was really worried about me being present in case something did kick off…the fact that they also swore non stop in my presence , without apologising, was also very intimidating.

    I say again this bigotry , intimidating behaviour and hatred is not normal and should never ever be condoned and accepted as normal .

    And what for ? To pathetically uphold a flawed outdated and twisted psyche that infests these haters of all who are not ‘one of them’… and therefore all others, who do not concur with them, they must be the enemy…what a warped and depressing view to have in a life so short and soon they will learn…a life wasted.

    No decent person anywhere in any country should have to tolerate this wretched stain that sucks out the decency and humanity we should, in Scotland, be striving to attain for those who live here …. and I am so very sad that this terrible situation exists in mine and it is embraced by certain politicians who should know better but obviously do not…..power, money and status does indeed corrupt and allows many a Unionist politician to turn a blind eye to that which is so blatantly and obviously wrong…..not that they care or even pretend to try to change things for the better for those of us who have to suffer the shame of this scourge within our country.

    Hence my support for wanting a better life and hopefully a better society in an independent Scotland that is more open, accepting and tolerant to the people who choose to make it their home than the (non) Union I am currently being forced to live in against both my will and a majority of other people who live in Scotland.

    Now IS the time to vote for independence ( was before as well but ….it has taken some people longer to realise….thank God they now have).

    Hope you both have a nice evening

  97. Robert Peffers

    @Tatu3 says: 7 July, 2019 at 5:02 pm:

    ” … Genuine question. I’d like to understand.”

    It’s as genuine as a £9 note, Tatu.

    In fact there isn’t “A”, reason there are several reasons.

    Not least being that no one yet knows if the United Kingdom’s exit from the EU will even happen and “Britain”, is neither a political entity nor a member state of the EU, so, “Britain”, cannot exit the EU).

    No one even knows who will be the next UK PM and when we do know we have no idea if even the Tory party will back the new PM.

    So the UK Parliament could stop a UK exit by voting against a no deal exit.

    Then there is the question of a Section 30 order and also the odds of winning a referendum. It is pointless calling a referendum unless you have the information, (reliable information), that you should win it – and that is only scratching around the edges for reasons to wait until things either become more clear or we can be sure of what is happening..

    What is more you are perfectly aware of all this. Most of us, having read your other comments, have a fair idea of where you are coming from.

    There is often more anti-FM/SG/SNP comments here on Wings than in the whole MSM combined. Yet no one is in the slightest doubt that only under an SNP SG and with a large SNP contingent at Westminster is there any chance of the union being ended.

    You lot are as transparent as a window frame without any glass fitted in it.

    However – it’s comin yet fir aa that.

    The Tories yelling at the top of their voices that there is no appetite for independence while an estimated 13,000 march for independence through Ayr and there has been marches estimated to be as much as 100,000 in the larger cities tells us there is a rather large apatite or rather an acute hunger and the proof of the unionists running scared is the simple fact the MSM and broadcasters are terrified to even report the numbers.

    I laughed out loud at the Scottish media reporting much smaller OO marching numbers while totally ignoring the AUOB march. They are obviously either in total denial or attempting to keep the facts from the electorate – and failing to do so.

    Even the reports of around 80 arrests at the OO marches and, as far as I know only the arrest of Mannie on what is really a civil matter on the AUOB side says it all.

    The AUOB marchers are peaceful and they even tale their rubbish away with them – often leaving the area cleaner than before they came.

  98. Tatu3

    Wow! Just wow!
    Mr Peffers you do not know me. How very dare you!

    “What is more you are perfectly aware of all this. Most of us, having read your other comments, have a fair idea of where you are coming from.”

    You have absolutely NO idea where I’m coming from. You really just can’t answer a question or make a comment without being rude and nasty.

    Others answered my genuine question politely, don’t know why you couldn’t. Very soon it’ll be just yourself on here repeating all you think you know ad infinitum.

  99. Dr Jim

    The media will always under report the marches or not report them at all so if there are to be marches at all we must have one so large that it’s uncontainable while still peaceful

    So large that the worlds media will sit up and take notice, embarrassing the shit out of the UK and their media

    The SNP are our political voice but it’s better if the demand is people led then their job becomes the reflection of the undeniable will of the people, look at Hong Kong and the coverage it’s getting, it’s all about the visuals

    So far we’ve had around 250.000 in scattered events around Scotland, we need numbers like that and more in one huge event

  100. Robert Peffers

    @gus1940 says: 7 July, 2019 at 5:42 pm:
    ” … Re The BBC
    In recent weeks we have had the withdrawal of the universal free Over 75’s TV Licence followed by last week’s release of the obscene salaries paid to performers most of whom are in Sport and Light Entertainment.”

    Now I’m only working on memory here, gus1940, but if memory serves well, it is a a stipulation on every broadcasters licence to transmit in the UK that they carry the BBC stations and also must carry newscasts, weather reports and public service broadcasts. So just why does Westminster also require to fund the BBC with a grant of the taxpayer’s money?

    Bear in mind that the BBC collects the licence fees but turns them mover to the treasury and the BBC gets an annual grant.

    Of course you wouldn’t know that and will find it hard to get the information but the fact is the BBC gets an agreed annual grant and thus doesn’t get to keep what it collects in licence fee money. It is the BBC’s most successful propaganda that the licence fee pays for programmes. It doesn’t it goes into the treasury’s general taxation fund. There is a name for that general taxation fund but it slips my mind what it is called at the moment.

    So there you are – even satellite TV broadcasters have to broadcast news, weather and public service information or they do not get a broadcasting licence. Furthermore the are compelled to also carry Freeview Radio Stations as well.

  101. Sinky


    The SNP are on course to hold a consultative referendum.

    Declaring UDI won’t win independence as it will unleash OO violence supported by UK troops.

    We have to stick to democratic legal ways and the more the UK says no to Ref2 the bigger the Yes vote will be when we get a referendum.

    Failing which incremental gradualism will win the day in the end.

  102. Robert J. Sutherland

    Tatu3 @ 20:18,

    Oh, welcome to the large and increasing club of people who are totally unknown to Peffers but who have troubled his increasingly-paranoid mind merely for having an original thought or two. You haven’t arrived on here until you’ve been nitpicked to (everyone’s) boredom by him.

  103. Robert Peffers

    @Abulhaq says: 7 July, 2019 at 5:42 pm

    ” … As long as the Edinburgh parliament acts like a subsidiary assembly, a vassal of Westminster and its constitutional legalism we are not going to advance.
    At some point the SNP has got to turn its back on this alien servitude and break ‘their rules’.”

    Absolute pish, Abulhaq.

  104. Ken500

    £5Billion spent on the BBC. £3.7Billion raised in TV licence revenues. People do not watch most of the rubbish. Taxpayers subsidies. Some of it spent on building estate. Empire building. Controlled by Westminster PM and Westminster Press Office. Like most of the UK MSM. Tax evading Non Doms who should not control the Press. Totally biased. Without a free and fair Press there is no democracy. Westminster are supposed to ensure a free and fair Press. They do not.

  105. Ken500

    Good evening Mr Peffers. Informative comments. Keeping well and up to date. Current affairs.

  106. Ronnie

    England controls the media and thereby controls the truth.

  107. Ken500

    The Tories will be gone soon. Someone else will have to sort out their mess. A complete and utter shambles. Chaos. What a bunch of Westminster unionist imbeciles. A world laughing stock. No wonder no one believes the BBC directed by these total and utter incompetents.

  108. Robert Peffers

    @galamcennalath says: 7 July, 2019 at 5:58 pm:

    ” … Then there’s the Section 30 thingy – go without or (as has appeared) turn the next election into a de facto IndyRef2.”

    Not correct, galamcennalath.

    Nicola stated that a section 30 was desirable and would be requested but that there would be an indyref2 with or without a section 30 order.

    I read it on the SNP website and posted a link to it here on Wings at the time. I didn’t see anything about it on the SMSM or broadcasters – which was why I posted the link in the first place.

  109. stu mac

    Dr Jim says:
    7 July, 2019 at 8:24 pm

    The media will always under report the marches or not report them at all so if there are to be marches at all we must have one so large that it’s uncontainable while still peaceful

    Whether they report them or not, that they are being held all over Scotland with large turnouts means that a lot of people will be aware of them – and that they are peaceful, joyful events – so not reporting them properly may be counter productive and besides don’t stop many people being aware of them.

  110. Ken500

    Austerity cost £13Billion a year. From 2015 to 2020 the ConDems were cutting £6Billion a year from education. £4Billion a year off NHS. £3Billion of welfare benefit cuts over 6 years (£18Billion).

    Clegg promised to protect Education. Cameron promised to protect NHS. To get elected.The Tories have had to put in a few £Billion for A&E etc. Benefit cuts means more had to be spent on social services. £3Billion a year spent on student loans elsewhere and which will never be repay. Just burden on the ex students. Endless worry.

    The Scottish Gov has had to mitigate all these cuts.

  111. Ken500

    The Tories are spending £Billions in HS2, Hinkley Point and Trident. A total waste of money. Brexit a total waste of money.

  112. Robert Louis

    I se Angus McNeil is talking of using any election as a vote for a mandate to leave the UK. This is good news. The only problem is, he won’t put this to the conference until October. I am convinced Boris the English clown PM, once in position will call an election.

    Boris, knows full well the parliament arithmetic. He knows he cannot get his idea of brexit through. Despite his bluster of closing parliament, that is just gas. He will call an election, and Labour will be forced to be anti brexit – if they don’t they will lose even more seats. All the polls show with Boris as PM, the Tories will win, and have a majority.

    The SNP need to be ready to go with Angus’s plan then, not sometime next year.

    Meanwhile, despite what is being done to Scotland, according to The National, the FM is still wittering on about holding a referendum late NEXT year. A wee bit f***ing late, if you ask me. Businesses lost due to brexit will be gone, the damage to Scotland will be done, bad trade deals in place against Scotland’s needs and so on, and a very, very much weakened Scotland will not be in a position to leave the UK.

  113. ben madigan

    I have re-blogged the Rev’s post and added a few questions that readers/viewers/listeners should ask themselves to become more alert to what’s going on on the media world.

    I realise I am preaching to the converted here as many posters already instinctively understand what’s happening or have, as they say “woken up” by whatever means.

    Nevertheless I hope you will find it useful when talking to No voting family, friends and neighbours about Independence for our country. Try and get them asking questions about their own views and thinking over they answers they give to themselves

  114. Dr Jim

    @stu mac

    I know I’ve attended them all except one, Oban, but I believe our route to Independence can be helped by England and so far they don’t even know it’s happening because the main news doesn’t report it, but if it’s so huge it inconveniences everybody it’ll be on the news in England and that’s important that they fully understand Scotland wants no part of their politics

    Up until now Mr and Mrs England is being told there’s no appetite for Independence in Scotland and they believe that so in turn believe the SNP are somehow holding Scotland hostage, and believe me I know because that’s what half my family in the Midlands believes, no matter how much I tell them differently, let’s help them to help us go by wanting rid of us unpatriotic horrors

  115. Scot Finlayson

    @Robert Peffers,

    `There is a name for that general taxation fund but it slips my mind what it is called at the moment.`

    would it be the `Consolidated Fund`

    there is also `hypothecated taxes` which are taxes ring fenced for specific purposes.

    which some seem to think applies to the broadcast tax,

    which is collected by the private company Capita on behalf of the BBC who in turn give it to the UK Gov who then give it back to the BBC after giving Capita £100,000,000

    Capita have the contract for 15 years and should make over £1.5 billion.

  116. Robert Peffers

    @Lenny Hartley says: 7 July, 2019 at 6:06 pm:

    … to save Auld Bob the bother , the TV licence is not a licence to fund or watch the BBC ,its a licence to allow reception of Live TV Signals whether they be Terrestial, Satellite ,Internet or BBC Catchup.”

    Thanks. Lenny but you forgot the bit that the BBC doesn’t even get the TV licence fees. They have to turn them over to the treasury and they are added to the general taxation fund. Then the BBC get a pre-agreed annual grant paid out of general taxation.

    So the bit they tell you about the licence fees paying for BBC programmes is all lies and it means that no matter if we pay the fee or not we all help pay for the BBC with our tax money.

    This, of course is the most successful, and first, BBC/Westminster propaganda ever. Just a couple of weeks ago I went looking for confirmation of that information and it was extremely difficult to track down but it is there if you persist. However, if you didn’t know to persist you just wouldn’t find it.

    Let me explain it this way. If you licence something then you give permission for something or other. So it is the Westminster government that gives the TV licence holder permission to receive live video signals. The BBC does not have that legal authority.

    Thus it would be illegal if the BBC kept the licence fee. However, way back in the days of wireless broadcasting just beginning the Government granted the BBC, (then a group or radio amateurs), who needed to create wireless broadcasting to create a market for the Wireless Sets with the public for the sets they were manufacturing.

    The original BBC was that group of amateur radio builders but the government stepped in, granted them a Royal Warrant along with an annual grant and the BBC has remained a private corporation getting an annual government grant ever since. BTW: no other nation on Earth forces their nation to pay to receive broadcasts.

  117. David P

    Something to ponder… Was it last week, or the week before, that Gordon brown was writing in the daily mail?

    And this weekend, we have David mundell writing in the guardian.

    What’s going on, folks, this is nuts!

  118. Dr Jim

    I doubt Boris will dare hold an election unless Nigel Farage does a deal with him because if Nigel’s Brexit party stands monkeys with rosettes on them in every constituency in England he’s got a good chance of winning and Labour will come third or maybe even behind the Lib Dems in fourth if they stick to their current plan

    In Scotland the SNP would wipe the floor with everybody forcing the SNP right down Boris’s throat and he’d have nowhere to hide, I don’t see any political advisers telling him to do that

  119. McDuff

    The BBC doesn’t review papers from rUK so its always only an English slant that is expressed. But of course you only have to switch on the tv and everything is English, the women`s world cup coverage for instance which was almost completely an English affair.
    As an example as to the extent the BBC has virtually eradicated program`s from Scotland on national television, a 1967 Birmingham copy of the radio times had four programs made in Scotland with Scottish content networked across the UK. They were Dr Finlay`s Casebook, The White Heather Club, Hootnanny, (Mucic and song), and a Glasgow private detective drama with Roddy MacMillan.

  120. Dr Jim

    Did you know that if it wasn’t for the fact that Englands womens team lost they would have been the best team

    Englysplained sporty news

    They should send information like this into space so the Martians will know to definitely invade

  121. Robert Peffers

    @Mac says:7 July, 2019 at 6:10 pm:

    … then admitting that ‘perhaps austerity had gone too far’.
    We live in a very sick country.”

    Are you kidding, Mac?

    There never was any austerity except for taking from the poorest and giving to the richest and that was what it was designed to do and it was not started by the Tories but by Labour who first changed direct taxation to indirect taxation.

    Indirect taxation is well known to transfer the main burden of taxation onto the poor instead of the rich.

    Now the very first thing the Conservative government did was to increase the rate of VAT, and other indirect taxes (all indirect taxation), and also to cut the higher rates of tax which had the effect of transferring the increased indirect tax gained from the poorest to the richest.

    Statistics prove that in this so called, “We are all in it together”, austerity the richest have more than doubled their personal wealth. You cannot be in austerity measures while more than doubling your personal wealth.

    It is that simple, Westminster simple used the tax system to take from the poor and give to the rich and in doing so they have killed off God alone knows how many thousands of vulnerable people.

  122. kapelmeister

    Johnson and Hunt both making mawkish appeals regularly now along the lines of ‘I pledge to keep this British family of nations together’ etc.

    It’s a strange family when Scotland had been locked in its room.

    If it was a real family instead of a metaphorical one then social services would have already intervened.

  123. Confused

    – this is a good read – the US sets up a rigged game, forces you to play it, ensures you lose, then walks away with all you have – and your leaders are in cahoots with it all

    now having read that, or enough of it to get the jist – think what kind of “free trade deal” the tories will get on behalf of the UK, post brexit, with the US

    – boris and his backers, the UK elite will loot and stripmine this country to such an extent that the first bout of thatcherism will seem benign

    – they are selling this like the rise of a neo-empire. but its more like – we are all working on the plantation, southern style

    – the english are too stupid to “get it” before it hits them – there is NO WAY for THEM to “win” via any free trade deal, so we need to cut the rope, soon

  124. ronnie anderson

    Robert Peffers I wouldn’t give Aupb to high a praise just yet . The SAPB ( pipe band ) were told now to have collection buckets on the Streets or on the field nor to approach stall holders for donations , they want all the monies for themselves despite Auob crowdfunders . Auob are scamming the Yes movement .

    The Wings stall was visited by 3 women from Auob asking for a donation from the stall ( 10% ) of the profits ( as degreed by Auob ) , liz g told them we dont donate to Auob , we donate to worthy causes ( we did donate to the pipe band ) .

    The Police came round asking for Traders Licences I spoke to the 2 policemen informing them we donate all monies to worthy causes we ask for donations for the merchandise , ( we dont put a price list up , they left quite happy with that explanation . One or more Stall Holders were charged yesterday for Trading without a licence .

    On a more happier note . Wings Stall under new Management .
    Ruglonian has taken over the reins & responsibilities of the Wings Stall ( i will be there to transport & to assist her as will the other volunteers .

    The account of monies from the stall at Ayr will be Posted in due coarse . And as ever many many Thanks to the volunteers who have supported myself Betty Boop/Jim Thomson/BDTT/Liz G & recovering from injury LolliesMum who made the long trip to Ayr to work on the stall .

    Thank You to the many Wingers/Lurkers who frequent the Wings Stall & hope you’s continue to support Ruglonian .

  125. CameronB Brodie

    Sectarianism is all about dominating access to political power and economic resources. It has been the British state’s weapon of choice for dividing Scotland’s working class, since the Union of the Crowns. Sectarianism and colonial imperialism can not be separated from racism.

  126. Giving Goose

    Boris and *unt’s pledges to keep the “UK family” together should be read as keep Scotland under the heel of the Jackboot.
    It’s all Brutally Brutish in Brutan.

  127. Ken MacColl

    Apparently Donalda MacKinnon -Head Honcho at BBC Scotland -was conferred with am honorary doctorate OF Letters at Glasgow Caledonian University “for services to media in Scotland”
    Someone must be thinking she is doing alright!

  128. CameronB Brodie

    I know there was no British state at that time but sectarianism was used by the English crown in the 17th century, to subjugate Ireland. Largely through the plantation settlement of Protestant lowland Scots.

  129. galamcennalath

    Confused says:

    the UK elite will loot and stripmine this country to such an extent that the first bout of thatcherism will seem benign

    Which is exactly what Brexit has always been about. The only style of Brexit the hard right have ever wanted, is one which delivers this to them.

    There are two types of people around – those who realise that, and those who don’t!

  130. Ian McCubbin

    I do not watch BBC because it is sheer English propaganda about what they think bests serves Scotland. None of it any more realistic than the Beano comic is to the actual reality of living in the current politics of Scotland.

  131. robertknight

    9,000 knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers converge on Glasgow – half of them dressed up to look like a cross between a US High School marching band and the Boy’s Brigade, with a plague of New Avenger ‘Steed’ lookalikes thrown in for good measure. Eight of them spend the afternoon in bracelets, and the news outlets can’t get enough.

    13,000 peaceful protesters walk through Ayr without a single attendee getting so much as a parking ticket and, The National excepted, ‘tumbleweed’…

    The MSM in Scotland is a product of the British Establishment and the BritNat Brainwashing Channel (BBC) is at the top of the dung heap.

  132. CameronB Brodie

    David P
    The Guardian went over to the dark-side some time ago. They now share a management team with the BBC and HSBC. So it shouldn’t really be a surprise they provide a platform for David Mundell.

  133. Robert Peffers

    @Tatu3 says: 7 July, 2019 at 8:18 pm:

    ” … Mr Peffers you do not know me. How very dare you!”

    Oh! How hilarious! I don’t know you so how dare I run you down but you don’t know the FM and those you run down but that, in your opinion, is quite all right?

    You come here on Wings and you cast aspersions at the First Minister of Scotland and the entire SNP – do you know her or them? So how dare you.

    ” … You have absolutely NO idea where I’m coming from. You really just can’t answer a question or make a comment without being rude and nasty.”

    I’m neither being rude or nasty but I am telling the truth. You get on your high horse because you dare to be rude and nasty and run down the First Minister and the elected SNP MSPs and MPs that you do not know yet complain when someone gets at you for being nasty to the First Minister and politicians who I presume you do not know.

    ” … Others answered my genuine question politely, don’t know why you couldn’t.”

    I already explained to you why. Your questions are far from being genuine. They are deliberately designed to be derogatory to the FM/SG and SNP, and before you go off in to yet another not so genuine rant, consider this, if you denigrate the FM/SG and SNP then you are also casting aspersions upon the electorate that elected them.

    ” … Very soon it’ll be just yourself on here repeating all you think you know ad infinitum.”

    Strange that, Tatu3, considering that the Wings readership is going from strength to strength but by your, no doubt genuine, opinion it should be melting away just because of little old me.

    I very much doubt that I carry such influence and I would hazard a guess that if I can detect in your comments to date a definite anti-FM/SG/SNP bias, and therefore an anti-independence theme, then I won’t be alone in detecting such a bias.

    If it is any consolation to you I would point out to you that you are not alone in posting anti-independence comments and you are thus not alone in being highlighted for doing so.

    You really do have a brass neck to get castigated for commenting about the FM and SNP who I’m sure you don’t know then telling me that I’m rude for doing so to you and telling me I don’t know you.

    This is an open forum and if it is all right for you to run down the FM and other politicians you do not know then it is obviously also all right for others to run down you.

  134. Stoker

    Effijy wrote on: 7 July, 2019 at 12:58 pm

    “Can this info be passed to the BBC for comment.
    Be nice to ask all the Unionist press if they would like to use this mirror”

    Anyone with a Twitter account can bombard the bbc with links to this article etc via @bbcpress. Or if you have lots of time to waste simply try going down the more discrete route of writing to or emailing them.

  135. Legerwood

    robertknight at 10:35 pm

    On Friday The Herald online had an article about the March due to take place in Ayr on Friday with details of the times, route etc.

    Today’s Herald also had a photo on the front page and a report online yesterday if I remember correctly.

  136. Welsh Sion

    kapellmeister @ 9.54 pm.

    I refer you to my parable “Meet the Brittens – A dysfunctional family like no other”. (Number 18 of 60.)

  137. geeo

    @Dr Jim says:

    7 July, 2019 at 9:38 pm

    Did you know that if it wasn’t for the fact that Englands womens team lost they would have been the best team

    Englysplained sporty news

    They should send information like this into space so the Martians will know to definitely invade

    Thanks for that, i laughed out loud at that and spluttered a pretty decent Malt whisky over my top and phone !!

    Brilliant tho…

  138. Breeks

    Robert Louis says:
    7 July, 2019 at 9:04 pm
    I se Angus McNeil is talking of using any election as a vote for a mandate to leave the UK. This is good news. The only problem is, he won’t put this to the conference until October. I am convinced Boris the English clown PM, once in position will call an election….

    I was optimistic that the coronation of Nut-job A or Nut-job B to the office of Prime Minister would be the catalyst for Scotland to adopt a much harder line on the Constitutional angle, and the long overdue fightback to begin, but if even Angus McNeil is leaving his plans until October, I am left feeling utterly despondent.

    Scotland is going to be Brexited and suffer unconstitutional subjugation in October, while the SNP are busy planning a picnic for their works outing next summer.

  139. kapelmeister

    We keep hearing Phil Neville, Lucy Bronze & Co say that England didn’t go to the World Cup Toulouse. We knew that. They were mostly in Nice and Lyon I believe.

  140. Thepnr


    Going by your posts, you’ve felt despondent since the day you were born. There have always been a sour faced lot only too happy moaning “we’re doomed” “we cannae dae it” but you top the lot.

    You have the cringe in fucking spades, stop moaning and get off YOUR arse and go and do something about yourself then, instead of pointing the finger at everyone else.

    Your greeting and whinging is monotonous as well as pathetic.

  141. Robert Peffers

    @Sinky says: 7 July, 2019 at 8:33 pm:

    ” … The SNP are on course to hold a consultative referendum.
    Declaring UDI won’t win independence as it will unleash OO violence supported by UK troops.”

    Whoa! Sinky, it is not possible for the legally sovereign people of Scotland to declare UDI.

    If you are sovereign then your word is law and you cannot make a unilateral declaration of independence under Scots law.

    Secondly the United Kingdom is exactly what its title describes it as – a two partner union of equally sovereign kingdoms. It is not a country much less a unified country.

    The United Kingdom was constituted by the Treaty of Union and has only the signatures of the two kingdoms that agreed to it on the treaty. Recently several Westminster Government Ministers have stated in the Westminster debating chamber that in international treaties any signatory to the treaty can withdraw from the treaty if they want to and they need no one’s permission to do so. The Treaty of Union 1706/7 is an international treaty.

    Now here’s the only snag – legally it is the people, not either the crown or the parliament who are sovereign. Thus neither the crown nor the parliament are sovereign but both need a direct mandate to use the people’s legal sovereignty.

    Which is where indyref2 comes into play. Neither the SG or the SNP have yet got a direct mandate to end the union and that mandate is what a YES vote in a referendum is. Nicola Sturgeon does not have the legal authority to dissolve the union without a mandate from the people to do so. However, there is another point. Westminster has already conceded, “The Scottish Claim of Right”, in both the parliament and in the Westminster Supreme Court and the Scottish Claim of Right is the right to end the union.

    So there it is – we need to have a direct mandate to exercise, “The Scottish Claim of Right”, and there are three ways to get that mandate.

    An election to the House of Commons that states in the SNP manifesto for that election that if the SNP get a majority of Scottish MPs they end the union and come home. An election to Holyrood that states if there is a Holyrood parliament majority of MSPs for ending the union then the union is over or an independence referendum that directly asks the people of Scotland if they wish Scotland to return to independence and the least controversial of the three is an independence referendum.

    However, a unilateral declaration of independence could only happen if the SNP, without a direct mandate, declare independence.

    More simply put if the SNP, as a political party without a mandate from the people, declared independence then that would be illegal. You can bet your boots that will be the claim made by the unionists whatever the truth is.

    You can already see this with their claims there is no apatite for independence and their other claim that there is no call by the people for indyref2. Not to mention the media silence about hundreds of thousands marching for indiyref2 under the AUOB banner.

  142. kapelmeister

    Javid has endorsed Johnson. Awfully embarrassing for The Colonel. Her first choice backing her last choice.

  143. Cubby

    UDI = not possible

    UDI = not possible

    UDI = not possible

    UDI = not possible

    UDI = not possible

    Not possible for Scotland. Just how many times does it have to be explained.

  144. mike cassidy

    For the Sunday evening delectation of those commenting on the OO.

    Being brave?

    Being suicidal?

    And the punchline from the cop at the end.

    Only in Scotland

  145. Golfnut

    @ Tatu3

    A hard question to answer, but I believe the SNP/SG have a strategy, or more likely a range of strategies to meet different scenarios. It’s pretty fluid at the moment so hang on in there. 2020 is fairly significant as it is the 700th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Arbroath, significant because it is the founding document of Scottish Constitutional Law, in International law it has legal provenance in a way Magna Carta does not.
    Keep your chin up.

  146. Robert Peffers

    Robert J. Sutherland says: 7 July, 2019 at 8:35 pm

    ” … Oh, welcome to the large and increasing club of people who are totally unknown to Peffers but who have troubled his increasingly-paranoid mind merely for having an original thought or two. You haven’t arrived on here until you’ve been nitpicked to (everyone’s) boredom by him.”

    You lot are really hilarious, You are all unknown to me but you all seem to think you know me. Then your, “original thoughts”, are so original that you all share the same thoughts. Not only that but you all express the same opinion that it is all right for you all to propound the same group of, (cough!), “original”, thoughts.

    Every one so original they all state exactly the same claims that each and every one of you assumes to be better informed than the FM/SG and SNP and their advisors. Now how very original is that?

    Finally you are all very ready to run down the FM/SG/The Scottish contingent to Westminster and the EU but, Oh! Dear! how dare anyone be in the slightest critical of you. Good grief this last numptie makes big play of me not knowing him/her but seems to have no problem whatsoever in knowing all about me – and you think I’m the paranoid one? laughable.

    Get real! It was the FM/SG and SNP that got us here to the very brink of independence it sure as hell wasn’t numpties like you lot you are ultra critical of what they have done to get us this far.

    Your claimed, “Original Thought”, Robert J. Sutherland, are shared by the roughly 50% of the population of Scotland that are also against the SNP and a great deal more in the rest of the UK who also are anti-FM/SG and SNP.

    You don’t win converts to independence by running down the very people who have done most to get us this far on the road to independence. If you really are as much better at it that they are why are you not in the party and getting yourselves selected as councillors, MSPs, MPs or MEPs.

    After all you keep telling us all that you all know better than the people we selected and voted for. If you are all that good why are you not in the party, selected and voted into either an elected position or chosen by the members to run as candidates?

    I’ll tell you why – it’s very, very easy to stand on the side-lines and tell the players on the pitch you could do better than the players can but it is quite a different story pulling the jersey over your head and actually playing the game at the top level. Oh! And its so easy to tell the ref on the pitch he is blind but another matter getting onto the pitch, knowing the rules, and making the decisions.

    Oh! And I’m not at all sure that everyone is bored at seeing anti-FM/SG/SNP getting a taste of their own criticism. It is, after all much more easy to be a critic than to do the actual job.

  147. Stephen Armstrong


  148. Hamish100

    mike cassidy says:
    7 July, 2019 at 11:52 pm
    For the Sunday evening delectation of those commenting on the OO.

    Being brave?

    Being suicidal?

    And the punchline from the cop at the end.

    Only in Scotland

    Police out of order but so is the guy in the car. Sad to see folk complaining about police swearing but seem to think it’s ok for them to be offensive. Even sadder to see all the Irish tricolours and in one a black beret.

    Scotland can do without OO and Unionism as well as the Irish republicism.

    The Saltire for me. This is Scotland.

  149. Breeks

    Thepnr says:
    7 July, 2019 at 11:21 pm

    Going by your posts, you’ve felt despondent since the day you were born. There have always been a sour faced lot only too happy moaning “we’re doomed” “we cannae dae it” but you top the lot.

    You have the cringe in fucking spades, stop moaning and get off YOUR arse and go and do something about yourself then, instead of pointing the finger at everyone else.

    Your greeting and whinging is monotonous as well as pathetic.

    No cringe here Sweetpea.

    I just find servile creeping loyalty to a weak and ineffective SNP which you won’t hear a bad word said against to be uncannily similar to the servile creeping loyalty to the weak and ineffective Unionist parties. It’s the same snivelling toadiness, it just grovels to a different master.

    Scotland is facing economic ruin, national humiliation and unconstitutional subjugation, and we have a leadership which won’t lead, nor will it even stand its ground or defend our sovereignty. We have the unique distinction of having the only government on the planet out smarted, out manoeuvred, and out-negotiated by Theresa May. Even the Chagos islanders are one up on Scotland.

    Scotland deserves better than this. Our flag is the saltire. It’s a battle ensign, not a limp wet blanket.

    But that’s your carefully cultivated binary choice right there Scotland. Follow the Unionist do-nothings or the Indy do-nothings. You’ll still be ruled by Westminster anyway, so buckle up and get used to it. But don’t criticise the SNP! That just isn’t cricket. You’ll spoil the illusion of democracy and unsettle the delicate equilibrium. Let’s all come together and raise our voices to sing the patriotic SNP battle cry…” Who else you gonna vote for?”

    Aye, the song on everybody’s lips.

  150. Ken500

    The Tories have a majority of 3 ? There are 20 Tories against Brexit. If Johnston calls a GE Parliament has to agree. The Condem illegally introduced fixed term parliaments. The Tories will lose. Johnston would not last pass October. The Tories could call a GE to lose to get them out of their mess. That is what the unionists do. An international disgrace.

    Johnston offered the SNP full fiscal powers. An S30 could come out of it. Or a court order. Or just forge ahead. The SNP Conference is in October. The SNP have to stand ready to fight a GE. One battle at a time. It is better to win. The best time to have an Indy Ref is when it can be won.

  151. Ken500

    Poopy pants calls it wrong every time. Still eyeing up the squint crystal ball. What a loser.

  152. Ken500

    May is gone. Another one down, another one gone, another one hits the dust. The Tories are an International disgrace. Thank goodness for the SNP Gov standing up for Scotland. Would not like to see the state of it otherwise. One step at a time. Until it is time. The SNP will not blow it. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get one other person to vote as well. People know it makes sense. Vote to help the world. The charlatans at Westminster are trying to destroy it. The Tories will soon be gone. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. What a bunch of imbeciles.

  153. Ken500

    The 12July Orange Order. The accumulation of ignorance and arrogance. Racists, bigots, and misogynists. Unequal, unfair and unjust. Exclusive not inclusive. Black balls. Secret societies have no place in modern demicrscy. . Illegal. The handshake and winks of inequality. Breaking the Law, Roaming the public highway to ruin the economy. They should be banned. They are in most of Scotland. Camilla and the garter. Total hypocrites. At least Trump has not started WW111 yet. The reason the American people elected him. They were sick of it. The loser won. D’Hond’t. The electoral college. The thick of it.

  154. Ken500

    Consultants in England are refusing to work overtime. The NHS England is in a state of collapse. Homicides in London have increased 200 a year. Police service at the state of collapse. Life expectancy has decreased. 120,000 earlier deaths. 17% more in England. The Brexit shambles. What a complete and utter mess. The Tory members, the majority male and over seventy, are voting for their own demise.

  155. Ken500

    Could the Scottish Gov not bring in a Law making it compulsory for people to have a shower before going in the mixed pool from the mixed changing rooms. Too many mingers do not have a shower. Full of germs. Flout the rules. More chlorine/chemicals have to be put in. It is bad for the skin and eyes. A healthy fun pursuit. It is enforced in the Continent. No shower no dip. The thick of it.

  156. Ken500

    Ireland could unite and probably will demographically. After being illegally Partition by the Westminster Gov. Lloyd George a Liberal. Absolute centuries of horrific abuses. Ireland wanted Home Rule/Independence. Nearly achieved it. Instead got years of troubles caused by the Westminster unionist imbeciles. Still on going. Nearly seventy years later. At a high cost to the people. Universal Suffrage 1928.

  157. Breeks

    Robert Peffers says:
    8 July, 2019 at 12:21 am

    Get real! It was the FM/SG and SNP that got us here to the very brink of independence it sure as hell wasn’t numpties like you lot you are ultra critical of what they have done to get us this far…

    No it wasn’t Robert. It was social media opening people’s eyes to the truth and allowing an alternative narrative to emerge which began the process of waking up the people of Scotland, allowing them to communicate with each other, and start to coordinate their common beliefs.

    The SNP was a banner they assembled beneath because it represented an idea. THE idea. The people are still true to the idea, but wonder whether the SNP has lost its passion for it. Where does all this enigmatic timidity come from? It’s not what was said on the box.

    I’m a lost cause as far as the SNP is concerned, I’ve never made any bones about it, but that actually gives me a detached perspective and freedom to say harsh things unrestrained by party or personal loyalties. You don’t have to listen, but maybe you should listen anyway. Do not doubt for a minute my dedication to an Independent Scotland. It comes from a deep place within, but does not I promise you, have its origins in anything the SNP has ever said or done.

    You SNP folk want the privilege and accolade of freeing Scotland from its chains of servitude in this Union, and that is something we have in common, (the freedom lust, not the pursuit of accolade), but what irks me is you want the accolade and kudos before the deed is done, but worse, much worse that that human frailty, is the gaping doubt about whether you can get the deed done.

    Deliver Independence, then bask in its glory, and I promise, you’ll never see or hear a word of criticism from me ever again.

  158. Breeks

    Count the posts Ken500. It’s you with the verbal diarrhoea.

  159. Ken500

    Little red hens who do nothing but criticise 120,000 people. Instead of doing something. What a total damn cheek. They totally attack others while doing precious little themselves. Complaining about two damn e-mails. Get a life for goodness sake and stop constantly criticising others. The record is broke. Their cup is always half empty. Instead of any optimism. Total losers.

  160. Ken500

    Kettle black

  161. Colin Alexander


    Independence supporters’ greatest hope is being placed in an anti-democratic Boris Johnson, right-wing, English Nationalism above everything, UK Govt.

    Our hope is the UK Govt will continuing to frighten, alienate offend and ruin the economic prospects of the majority of reasonable-minded people in Scotland.

    How? Because the SNP don’t lead on independence. It’s probably a good thing the SNP aren’t leading the campaign anymore, as they invariably screw it up anyway by painting an image of an independent Scotland in SNP colours. An SNP-ruled independent Scotland.

    Independence based on SNP policies, instead of the fundamentals of sovereignty of the people, that it should be the people who decide how their country is run, not the UK Crown in the English / UK Parliament.

    The SNP don’t do Scottish sovereignty. They campaign as a political party; we get party policies, not an inalienable fundamental right: that we the people of Scotland are sovereign, not The Crown of the United Kingdom and Crown in Parliament.

    So, if Boris wins us independence. Nice one.

    As for the SNP, it’s nice to hear the occasional SNP sound-bite that the SNP believes in independence. It makes me think of someone who says they believe in God but aren’t religious.

    Anyway, come on the Tories! : win us independence.

    Well done the YES movement!

    It’s only because the SNP’s realised that even the faithful SNP worshippers are starting to get fed up with the lack of ANY progress from the SNP on indy over the last five years, that has forced the SNP into making announcements about announcements about ideas about talking about independence, so that we can talk about independence, think about independence. Debate it. Talk about it some more, while we wait for more announcements about announcements about ideas on talks.

    At last real progress haha.

  162. Abulhaq

    @CameronB Brodie 10:22
    This book adds further nuance to the Scots presence in Ulster.
    Scots and Irish have been toing and froing for millennia, Picts, St Patrick, Gaels….
    Yet again we have a linear Unionist narrative contrasted with the ‘other’, more complex history.

  163. call me dave

    Tory Maurice Golden on shortbread there running out of a coherent argument against SNP’s Angus MacNeil’s plan ‘B’ for starting independence negotiations as the interviewer demolishes the Tory case

    Golden finally resorting to ‘because… reasons’ SNP bad. 🙂

    Neil Findlay on to discuss Corbyn and loses it going off on a tangent with a personal tirade and his interview descends into farce. What good is Neil Findlay? 🙂

    Scottish blue mussels suffer from stress… Jings!

  164. Abulhaq

    Based on some of the responses to my assertive and colourful posts I do wonder how much some Scots truly desire independence.
    I have had heated arguments with my cousins who think ‘the Scots’ are either politically naïve or a collection of wimps. The result of 2014 referendum was viewed beyond Scotland as a shameful example of the latter, the failure to capitalise on the 56 Westminster seats as a pathetic example of the former. Opportunity comes to Scotland’s door and the door is slammed in its face.
    Exceptionalism and hubris, not just an English problem.
    Thankfully, for Scotland’s reputation, there are a few on here who might well agree with my position.

  165. Dr Jim

    A great many Unionists are not reasonable people:

    There seems no doubt that an Independence referendum if held right now would win by 4% or 5% percent, but what happens then, Scotland would be in exactly the same position as England, an unpleasant divided nation full of bitterness

    I believe the SNPs hope is that they can take more of the population with them by convincing them it’s a good idea to be Independent and that it’s something they should want

    The SNP aren’t Tories and they aren’t Socialists, they’re Democrats and see Scotland as being politically opposite from England if only they can convince the electorate to take a look at the premise of creating that, a country that can have reasonably consensual politics for all rather than two pretendy completely opposite sides arguing all the time

    If Scotland has a referendum and YES wins narrowly the losing side just like us will begin a campaign of *It’s no fair* immediately

    The referendum is going to happen because the SNP still want to win but they’d just like to win big to make sure there are no challenges and less division, whether that happens I suppose we’ll have to wait and see, but the Unionists are a bad tempered lot and won’t do what we did, after the deafeat in 2014 we just gritted our teeth and carried right on campaigning because we believed we were right, Unionists don’t care about right they just care about not losing what the majority of them see as a religious battle, it’s not about country or nation or freedom or a better country for them, it’s about asserting what they see as their right to dominate and rule and there’s no economic reasoning or societal improvement will justify them changing their minds on that

    Nicola Sturgeon is a reasonable person if you want a different approach then you have to elect an unreasonable person who wants Independence and doesn’t care about what happens once we’ve got it

    Someone with the same attitude as say Boris Johnson

  166. Effijy

    The Tory Government appointed knight of the real who has insulted
    The President and Official of the United States in a leaked memo must
    Be asked if he was reprimanded when his thoughts were passed on to
    His superiors/government.

    If not, then we must presume that they too are in agreement with him
    And that they see no need to ask that he tone down his opinions.

    Trump will punish the UK for these comments but he will ride these blows
    As he can see the very big prize on the horizon when a detached and weak
    Government will sell their souls and the country down the river to announce
    That they have any kind of deal with someone larger than Papua New Guinie

    Goodbye NHS England, goodbye English Engineering and hello to all American
    Oil rich War Zones.

    English Doctors refusing overtime crippling NHS England, schools closing
    On Friday as they don’t have funds for a full weeks tuition, record numbers
    Of Killings on the street and Millions living in poverty.

    To think the UK media try to decry Scotland’s performance while England
    Continues into a state of collapse.

    Think I chose to off load the corruption and incompetence of a controlling
    Neighbouring country and stick with SNP and Independence.

  167. Arabs for Independence

    Neil Findlay on GMS made a total fool of himself this morning – childish behaviour from NF and displaying what a shambles the labour party is in.

  168. Dr Jim

    I see on Twitter that many of the folk involved in the gender sex rights argument have decided that they won’t vote for Scotland to become Independent because in some way that affects their human rights and have decided that having America take over is a better prospect for those rights

    America? human rights? President Boris? Uh Huh, good luck with that folks

  169. mr thms

    For me independence is inevitable. The light at the of a very long tunnel is getting brighter.

    The Scottish Parliament has voted for a referendum and there is a bill going through parliament.

    They are right to prepare, since the new leader of Conservative and Unionist Party could potentialy prorogue parliament and take the UK out of the EU without a deal.

    Indications are it would trigger another General Election which in turn would trigger another extension to Article 50.

    While Article 50 allows an extension or extensions. It is not widely known the Withdrawal Agreement’s ‘temporary arrangement’ also allows a ‘once only’ extension of ‘one or two years’.

    So if there is a majority in the new parliament for the Withdrawal Agreement the date when the UK finally leaves the EU would be 20xx!

    And if that happens the next stage towards independence will be about all the new powers coming to Scotland during the ‘transitional arrangement’.

    The Scotland Act 2016 allows for powers to be devolved simply by agreement between the Scottish and UK governments.

    I see the next step as Scotland getting all the powers a future independent country would need to have in place.

    Similar to some of the tax and benefit powers Scotland currently has.

    The two candidates for the leadership of the Conservatives will present the new powers as a strengthening to ‘our precious union’?

    But, it seems to me all they are doing is driving the wedge deeper and a split is inevitable.

  170. Ken500

    Aye but the SNP keep winning. Outright. Proud of the members. They put themselves out there Fund, donate and campaign. Instead of sitting on their hands complaining all the time. The SNP Gov can do things to improve Scotland because the members fund the Party. Making a better job of it than any unionist Party allied to the imbeciles at Westminster.

    No thanks to the suckers.

  171. Dave McEwan Hill

    No need to wonder about what we’ll have for tea. Colin Alexander is back with a load of mince at 8.19.

    Sadly it would appear the SNP has won all elections in Scotland for the last decade. This has the sorry consequence of the SNP being the government of Scotlandand and having to govern in a regime of austerity with slashed budgets due to Scotland being trapped in bust UK.

    Despite this the SNP is so far ahead in the polls that the others are almost out of sight, has four times as many members as all the other parties put together and is the second biggest party in the UK (and the third largest party in Westminster) and support forindependence is now at record high. What a disaster.

    This has been achieved of course because all the media, printed and broadcast, supports independedence and the SNP all the time – opps did I get that wrong?

    But not to worry. Colin will bring a independence fairy to lead us to the holy land.

  172. naina tal

    Whit’s wrong wi ma wireless this morning?
    BBC interviewer asks Tory Maurice Golden aw the right questions.

    Then on Kay wi an e’e I hear her introduce ” Journalist Shona Craven from The National newspaper”.

    Have got oot ma bed in an alternative universe? Am I really deed wi aw life’s trials ahint me?

  173. Capella

    @ Dr Jim – only a fool would vote to have their rights removed. The 77% who would still vote YES under these conditions are the ones who haven’t understood what is happening – yet.
    To paraphrase…

    “As long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under misogynistic rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest person gives up but with life itself”.

  174. Iain mhor

    Vaguely related to reporting and also the march at Ayr on Saturday – I am still seeing the 2760-3000 reported even in the local papers.
    It was bugging me why there was such a disparity in the numbers from both sides. In the interests of science (*ahem) I had a look at my maps and came up with the collective streets length of the march being around 2800 linear feet and 20 foot wide – The Length of Fort St (from Wellington sq), the Waterfront turn, the Sandgate.

    Drawing on some parade drill experience – about 2 foot between the column and about 6 bodies to a 20 foot row, is about 8,400 bodies (2800/2 x 8) That would be a very conservative ballpark. At 7 to a row – 9,800, which is close to the original estimate of 10K.
    My row was 12 wide and 18″ at times, most of the march was a lot tichter than parade drill, as any swatch at the pictures shows. So small tweaks of parameters gives big tweaks to numbers.

    To get the commonly reported 2760 bodies (coincidentally awfy close to what I reckoned the length of the route was) you would have to give everyone marching, 6 foot between the column and 6 bodies a row (2800/6 x 6) Which is probably exactly how they got the low estimate figures – as opposed to using Mk1 Eyeball.
    So, there you go, for what it’s worth. Pick your own numbers.

  175. Legerwood

    Effijy @ 9.02am

    “”English Doctors refusing overtime crippling NHS England,…””

    This could start to happen in NHS Scotland as well if it has not already started to affect the service.

    Doctors in Scotland are also subject to the tax changes affecting their pensions which were brought in by the UK Government.

    There have already been some reports in the papers in Scotland about doctors’ concerns on this issue.

  176. mike cassidy

    The UK ambassador to the USA has previous with leaked emails.

    Oh those optimistic days when he thought we could influence them!

    Trump’s reaction was to suggest a week later that he should be replaced by Farage.

  177. McBoxheid

    Robert Peffers says:
    7 July, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    @Bob Costello says: 7 July, 2019 at 11:44 am:

    … All of which leaves the question. Why are the SNP not doing anything about this?”

    And there it is, I’m surprised it took so long but there it is – SNP BAAAADDDD! It’s all the SNP’s fault – What is Nicola Sturgeon going to do about it? Are the SNP getting too comfortable in office?

    Do these people imagine we Scots for independence zip up the back?
    Turn that question around Robert and you will find that many of the concerned Scots haven’t even written to their MSP/MP to find out if the SNP are doing anything.

    The Wings piece “No Independence Day” BTL was a litany of SNP Bad and folk leaving the party.

    It is easy to criticise the SNP, especially as their opponent, even if they are the only chance, the only vehicle available, if you like, for independence.

    There are plenty of chances for people who say they want independence, but don’t like that SNP to jump onto a thread to critise the only party that can deliver an second independece referendum.

    Personally, though not a member, as I live in Germany, I agree with the SNP in the main. I see openly critising them at this juncture detrimental to the indy movement.

    They are doing a brilliant job of steering us towards independence.

    I wish folk would make up their minds about supporting indy sooner than later, but it is what it is.

    We need just a little more patience. Accusing the SNP of getting too comfortable is risable at best. It shows a very limited understanding of the process of convincing a majority of voters to come to the yes side of the debate.

    Once folk realise that Scots should have their own countrymen and women running Scotland, there is no turning back. They do not have to be born in Scotland or have Scottish ancestors to make Scotland their home either. All peoples are welcome here if they want to contribute to our way of life. If they live and pay tax in Scotland, they should have the right to vote imho.

    Public opinion is changing at a faster rate in recent days with the prospect of Johnson as PM. Hunt is no better. Both will be disasterous for Scotland, as well as all parts of UK, including London.

    Maybe not for rich investors that have moved their money elsewhere in the interim and are waiting for the opportunity to reinvest when stocks and shares are at their lowest and can only go up.

    The Tory cabinet ministers know more about the state of disillusionment in Scotland and have chosen to keep it secret. That must be a positive for indy2.

    In the meantime, if indy supporters that dislike the SNP would bite the bullet and back them till the job is done, it would help enormously the cause of independence.

    I am not saying you should not be allowed your voice in matters. (I’m just a person with an opinion, just as you are.) Please think about the effects of comments on folk that are havering at the minute, but are thinking about changing to yes, before you criticise the SNP, the vehicle that will get us over the line.

  178. Dr Jim


    Some people have a problem with the current Scottish government’s handling or position on the issue to which we’re referring, that issue has absolutely nothing to do with whether a country should be Independent or not, because in every country governments of the day change and politics and positions change

    I only take issue with some peoples idea that the SNP will be the government for all time in an Independent Scotland therefore policies on anything will never change

    That’s just wrong

    I’m not commenting on the gender issue or cause of those supporting it or not, it’s the idea that because one does not like a policy of a political party that should be conflated with a constitutional issue, the two are in no way related

  179. Effijy

    On the topic of Scotland being divided on Independence, Really?

    The knuckle draggers are going to insist that Scotland shouldn’t
    Be a country, that the incompetent greasy country next door should
    Have total control over us and take any resource we have in any
    Quantity they like.

    We must not have a say in how any union is ran, we must accept
    Tory governments that we have never voted for, we have no right
    To be Europeans and trade in the worlds largest market place and
    Bojo the Clown, the man who would put Scots in a ghetto and eliminate
    Us and the man who would, by his own words, rather see investment in
    England before Scotland be our Prime Minister.

    How would anyone hope to be considered sane and argue that these issues are
    Something every nation would see as having a positive impact on their lives???

    With regard a live televised next Tory Prime Minister debate.
    What is the point when 99% of the country can’t vote on who gets the job?

    Even if Bojo the Clown killed someone in the audience the UK media would portray him
    As a strong leader ready to defend the country.

    Bojo has the job in his pocket and this pre arranged dance is just a time filler until a
    No Deal Brexit deadline is upon us.

    When the English lose their job, their rights, their NHS and their homes, good old Bojo
    Can simply say that it’s what you voted for. This is Brexit.

  180. katherine hamilton

    Hear Hear McBoxheid

  181. Iain mhor

    So Boris is backtracking on Barnett and Hunt is saying Indyref2 is a possibility in the future. Operation “Strengthen the Union” having a word in their lugs? Operation “Forgodssake shut up and stop spooking the horses” more like.
    I smell pledges and vows winging their way to “North Britain” sooner rather than later.

    Still, they’ll have bother turning England around now. ‘Cut us loose from horrid Johnny Foreigner, is a step away from “what other leeches and drains on our pocket, keep poking their unwanted nose into our affairs?” Why, Scotland, that’s who. “Cut us loose from them as well!”
    Reap what you sow, reap what you sow indeed.

  182. call me dave

    Scottish business news BBC :

    ‘Bright spot’

    Malcolm Buchanan, chairman of the RBS Scotland board, said: “Scotland was a bright spot in an otherwise disappointing month for the UK overall in June.

    “Out of the 12 monitored parts of the UK, Scotland was the fastest-growing area for new business and joint third-strongest for output.

    But of course the rest of the BBC article pulls back a bit and dribbles on with an adequate splash of cold water with ifs and buts and maybe’es just to stop us getting too big for our boots.

    It’ll keep the Lib Dem candidates on side especially Jo Swinson who got it all wrong again last week.

  183. Dr Jim

    Scotland has the advantage of the broad shoulders of the UK

    But Boris’s head is on top, and before that Theresa’s, and before that David’s, how many do we have to go through till there’s a human head

    Maybe David Icke is right Jeez!

  184. Luigi

    call me dave says:
    8 July, 2019 at 8:40 am
    Tory Maurice Golden on shortbread there running out of a coherent argument against SNP’s Angus MacNeil’s plan ‘B’ for starting independence negotiations as the interviewer demolishes the Tory case
    Golden finally resorting to ‘because… reasons’ SNP bad.

    Indeed. The tory didn’t exactly sound democratic.

    Its a very interesinting development though. One must ask:

    Now why would the SNP start mentioning possible alternatives to an indy referendum on MSM, if WM continues to play silly buggers?

    Could it be they are they starting to prepare the public for something?

    Aye something in the air, methinks.:)

  185. Colin Alexander

    Dave McEwan Hill

    We’ve come a long way since the SNP were a fringe organisation. However, I don’t care that the SNP have come from there, to winning almost all the MP seats, only to nearly lose all of them again with an abysmal GE campaign and lazy entitlement politics. So what?

    So what if the SNP have administered devolution for 12 years?

    That is temporary, transient, un-important in the long-term scheme of things.

    If landslide support for the SNP equalled independence, or equalled sovereignty, we’d be independent or have been able to exercise our sovereignty since 2015 when the SNP won 56 out of 59 MP seats.

    If the SNP ever seek a mandate to declare Scotland’s parliament sovereign, I’ll vote for them yet again.

    But the differences between the Labour / LibDem Holyrood devolution administrations and SNP ones have been minimal. The SNP being better in some ways, such as minimum pricing per unit of alcohol.

  186. CameronB Brodie

    Dr Jim
    It looks like you’ve not done the recommended reading. Women’s human rights are definitely a constitutional issue. 😉

  187. Dr Jim

    Scotland is a victim of its own success warns a think tank

    I just read that in the papers, these *journalists* in Scotland are so mentally irregular in their thinking they’re now basically telling us not to be successful because we’ll only be upset later if it doesn’t last

    This is so cringingly defeatist old fashioned Scottish to always expect the worst

    Boring us to death with the threatenings of doom is getting old Dolores

  188. Dr Jim

    @CameronB Brodie

    I don’t need to read anybody’s human rights on an issue not pertaining to human rights

    If people are going to be stupid enough to conflate the Constitution of a country with that of a particular policy decision of an individual political party then it is they who require a re think of their choice of political battle

    What if the Labour party had a policy people didn’t like would they still vote against Scottish Independence knowing that the Labour party may in the future be the government of the country, or Conservative or Lib Dem

    It’s a stupid argument for angry people to use to threaten the current government with in the hope of getting their way, and if they keep it up they are the ones who will lose sympathy for their position

    It’s a self defeating position to stand behind barricades and shout threats

  189. Capella

    @ Dr Jim – I take your point about independence taking priority.

    For me, my personal rights trump any vote. Unless the SG make clear that they will protect my rights, I am forced to consider who will. The Westminster government are also reviewing the GRA. I’m hearing on the grapevine that the US government are having second thoughts.
    It wasn’t me who turned this into a Dutch auction.

  190. Camz

    We had EVEL, and now EPEV (English propaganda for English voters).

  191. call me dave

    Well that’s all right then! 🙁

  192. Undeadshaun

    @Colin Alexander

    Free prescriptions, Bridge tolls scrapped, mitigating effects of bedroom tax, building new forth crossing, giving nhs staff a decent pay rise unlike counterparts in England, likewise teachers.


  193. Lenny Hartley

    Dr Jim, its not your perception on Womans rights that counts. Sadly the few in the SNP hierachy who have been pushing Self Id are doing a lot of harm to the prospects of an Independent Scotland. Just because you dont think it matters wont make it go away.
    I spoke to several Women about this issue at the March on Saturday and everyone thought it could damage the Yes Vote, hopefully useful idiots like Mhairi Black will butt out and the Self ID issue can be buried in the deepest grass we can find, however that genie is out of the bottle and you can be sure the Brit Nats will be using it against us when it suits them.

  194. Avalanche

    I’m not so sure. The commentators are all relevant to the main issues and this is probably a bad month to poll. is there actually anything happening in Scotland that wasn’t happening last month?

    The main news story of the moment is the Tory leadership election. There was massive coverage about who would get into the run off, and then the two candidtates are always on the airways. Heck even Rory whatshisname Stewart probably got more coverage than anything said by the SNP.
    Does Tim Montgomery / Conservative Home / The Spectator have an opinion here – definitely. The SNP – Nope. The Spectator even managed to get in on the act by have a fantastic flame war over Boris Johnstone between Max Hastings and Conrad Black. No one cares what the SNP thinks about this. I don’t even care. I am presuming that Sturgeon doesn’t like either candidate and doesn’t like Tories and doesn’t think they are good for Scotland. That’s priced in.

    Probably the other two stories are the rumblings on about Brexit and Labour/Jeremy CorbynvTomeWatson/Brexit2nd Referendum/Anti-Sematism. After that what – the liberal leadership? Again – SNP viewpoint – who cares?

    Interestingly I suspect the numbers are also down a bit as Scottish Tories such as Davidson / Mundell don’t want to fuel the media fire and are hoping most Scots haven’t heard of Boris Johnstone….. If Ruth Davidson was standing then I can see the numbers being different and more reporters being sent North of Carlisle.

    What else – Chris Williamson. Again no SNP interest.

    For what its’ worth after the conservative election I suspect the main stories are:
    1. Brexit – 31st October / No Deal
    2. Will Boris/Hunt get voted down or call an election
    3. Corbyn-AntiSematism.

    The SNP have nothing to say about any of this apart from they don’t want Brexit, Scotland Voted NO, we want independence. They said that months ago and no one wants to switch on a TV to hear them repeat it again.

    Also arguably Tom Watson is doing more to generate headlines than the entire SNP Westminster Party/Scottish Government. Now these headlines might be negative but still. . . .

  195. Proud Cybernat

    When I get to heaven (more likely hell), I’m going to look up every one of the feckers who signed away Scotland’s independence in 1707 and consigned us to centuries of voiceless penury in the UK.

    When I’m finished, it won’t be a pretty sight. Feckers every last one of them.

  196. Clydebuilt

    Dr. Jim

    Re conflatng the constitutional issue with a particular policy of the SNP.

    Of Course your right the two should not be conflated. However try telling that to ill informed people who read the MSM and get news from the BBC or STV AND exercise their right to vote.

  197. Dr Jim

    @Lenny Hartley

    I never at any time made an argument for or against womens rights I made the argument that to threaten to vote against Independence for your country is somehow related to human rights is wrong and a conflation of issues

    Political parties make decisions all the time about things we like or don’t like but those decisions are policy decisions that any future government can change or amend at will, or just not implement at all, this current argument is based on the particular assumption that if threatened the SNP will back down on something in order to achieve Independence, and that makes it the playground student politics of foot stamping and attempted bullying, I made the same point to CamBrodie that what if it had been another party who had a position on this that was unpalatable would people still vote against Independence knowing that the possibility of that party being in government in the future would see them vote against Independence

    It’s not about the rights or wrongs of any particular position, it’s about the threats, because if the Government were to back down on whatever they decided on any issue, who’s next in the queue to threaten the government to get what they believe are their rights, the list could be long

    It wasn’t so long ago people wouldn’t have had the right to express many of todays views, they’d be locked up, but over time and changes of governments and policy everything changes and modernises as it should

    But to say I don’t want to have a country of my own that I can discuss these issues in makes no sense to me whatsoever, and my guess is many others will think that too

  198. Clydebuilt

    New Slogan

    “Independence or Bust Brexit”

  199. Doug Bryce

    ^ independence or boris…

  200. Jack Murphy

    Off Topic.
    Yesterday YES BIKERS posted on Main Page their Ayr Rally Saturday VIDEO.

    Begins at 3:30 following the Briefing and, “We’ve got a couple of Police Outriders.”
    Enjoy. 🙂

    YES BIKERS For Scottish Independence.

  201. CameronB Brodie

    Dr Jim
    You clearly don’t understand how constitutional law sets the perimeters for equality and justice. Disappointing from an indy supporter, though I understand party loyalty.

    The constitutionalisation of the principle of gender equality


    The principle of equality is commonly found within European constitutions. It takes a variety of forms, ranging from general commitments to equality before the law, to more detailed provisions on non-discrimination. Equality for women and men is widely recognised as one aspect of the principle of equality.

    In some constitutions, this is beyond doubt because there is an explicit reference to equality for women and men or, alternatively, ‘sex’ is included as a ground of prohibited discrimination. Nonetheless, even where there is no overt reference to gender equality in the text of the constitution, courts have normally been willing to accept that this flows from the general principle of equality.1

    A similar picture emerges within the constitutional law of the European Union. From the outset, the Court of Justice interpreted the founding Treaties as including a general principle of equality2 and, at a later stage, a right to non-discrimination on the ground of sex.3 This was subsequently complemented by various Treaty revisions that advanced a more specific principle of gender equality.

    The EC Treaty right to equal pay for women and men was strengthened, most notably to include the concept of equal pay for work of equal value.4 Protection for positive action was incorporated5 and a duty to ‘promote equality between men and women’ in all activities was inserted.6

    The drafting of the EU Constitution provided an opportunity to consider afresh the place for gender equality. Although the drafters were clearly working in the shadow of the existing Treaties, the wide-ranging discussions coupled with the evocative reference to creating a ‘constitution’ opened space for more radical innovation than the traditional process of Treaty revision. Significantly, the final text is scattered with references to equality, including equality between women and men.7 This paper aims to reflect on the role for constitutions, and in particular the EU constitution, in defining and advancing the principle of gender equality.

    Three aspects to constitutions and gender equality are identified. First, there is the traditional, legal function of a constitution as a source of rights, such as the right to non-discrimination. Secondly, the constitution plays a role in defining the concept of gender equality; what is meant by ‘equality’ and ‘gender’? Finally, the constitution can be an instrument through which public policy on gender equality is framed.

    It sets boundaries for the role of law and policy and indicates the degree to which gender equality is considered a cross-cutting objective. In the analysis of each of these categories, reference will be made to the EU Constitution.8 Although it awaits ratification by the Member States, it already forms a crucial point of reference for the future development of the EU constitutional order.

  202. sassenach

    Dr Jim @ 1-40pm

    Exactly, well said.

  203. Dr Jim

    @ CameronB Brodie

    Just because you copy and paste somebody else’s work on to WOS makes it no more relevant to the issue

    And don’t tell me *what I clearly don’t understand* when you have to Google it in order to form an opinion or indeed frame one

    Unless you’re doing what you invariably do which is to alter the argument in order to make it fit something somebody else wrote, because that’s old and boring Dolores and nobody reads it or cares

    Get off your faux indignation high horse and flutter your PHD fake argument elsewhere that sort of nonsense impresses no one, and the reason I’m being blunt?

    Your arrogance, which is the very thing you can’t stop accusing Robert Peffers of

  204. CameronB Brodie

    The proposed changes to the GRA would undermine women’s human rights. I don’t see how that will help our cause. Just the opposite, frankly. Remember, the UN ascribes to the legal definition of “sex”, as being biological in nature.



    The United Nations (U.N.) Charter,4 the Treaty establishing the European Union (EU),5 the Draft Treaty Establishing a Constitution for Europe, 6 as well as numerous other international treaties and national constitutions refer to justice as a central objective of international and national law.

    International legal theory also suggests that compliance with international rules (i.e., rule of law) depends no less on the perceived legitimacy of the international rules7 than on governments’ cost/benefit analyses8 and on the “internalization” 9 of intergovernmental rules into domestic laws and policy-making processes.

    These assumptions of legal theory are consistent with those of political science, according to which political processes tend to be determined not only by the relative power and interests of the actors (e.g., by individual and collective
    utility maximization), but also by rules, institutions, and ideas (e.g., on justice).10

  205. Robert Peffers

    @Proud Cybernat says: 8 July, 2019 at 1:07 pm:

    ” … When I’m finished, it won’t be a pretty sight. Feckers every last one of them.”

    Well, Proud Cybernat, if you do the real research about that period of Scottish history, (instead of the omissions and lies taught to most of us as Scottish history), I’d say they were far less villains that the Scottish unionist parties of today. They were left with very few options. Mind you some were utter villains but most were put in a position of little choice.

    What isn’t taught as Scottish history is that Westminster was plotting the take over of Scotland long before the Treaty of Union. Remember that it was a London Scot, William Patterson who began the subscription scheme that led to the start of the Bank of England and the same William Paterson who instigated the disastrous Darien Expeditions.

    Paterson was, though, most likely to be a victim of blackmail by the English Spymaster, Sir Robert Harley. Paterson had probably caught out by Harley and made debtor then forced to work for Harley to avoid bankruptcy. A most serious state in those days.

    As was the author Daniel Defoe but Defoe was a scoundrel long before falling into Harley’s clutches. Anyway the English crown/parliament was in dire financial trouble due to fighting wars caused by the English Navigational Acts and it seems the English aristocracy and some parliamentarians were taking advantage of the situations in both England and Scotland, (nothing new there then).

    So it is probable that Sir Robert Harley and friends were behind the formation of the Bank of England, (a private company), but note that Paterson was not part of that company. Next thing Paterson is in Edinburgh initiating the Darien Scheme that was designed to bankrupt the Scottish landowners/parliamentarians and who was there with him but Daniel Defoe who was also a victim of the threat of more imprisonment for debt and employed by Harley.

    So the Scottish Landowners/parliamentarians were forced into debt – a modus operandi of Harley and no doubt the were skeletons in Scottish cupboards and other threats. Then before the Treaty was signed there were English armies massed on the Scottish English borders and an English fleet lying off the Firth of Forth.

    There is no doubt that the treaty was forced upon Scotland and that was why the people were rioting in the streets. Mind you I don’t have great sympathy with the Scottish Parliamentarians but I can see they were between the proverbial rock and a hard place. Bribery, coercion and threats of invasion were very hard to escape from and no sympathy for them by either ordinary Scots or ordinary English people who were also against the union.

  206. CameronB Brodie

    Dr Jim
    I hadn’t though of you as being narrow-minded. So professional insight is now “arrogance”? Away and take your face for a walk.

  207. Effijy

    Colin Alexander says:

    Colin the only thing that I can see SNP having achieved si the Best Performing NHS in the UK- in spite of our Rural location and a poor history with regard diet and alcohol abuse.

    Free University Education saved me £27,000 the English option.

    No Tolls on our roads or bridges.

    Free prescriptions.

    They put a stop to Council Tax increase 2 and 3 times the rate of inflation.

    They negated the Bedroom Tax where in England 81% of those affect
    by drastic benefit cuts were disabled.

    They haven’t declared any very important information related to Scotland as Top Secret such as the McCrone Report or the Dunblane massacre.

    They don’t bribe TV Producers to stop us accessing shows like Out Lander.

    They saved Prestwick Airport and Scotland’s Steel jobs.

    They build badly needed motorways and bridges.

    They paid off some of the horrific Gordon Brown-Labour PFI
    projects to save us £Millions in Interest.

    They are unique in standing up for Scotland.

    They actually care and work for ordinary people and do not look to wonder around masquerading as Lords in Ermine Cloaks while the
    Plebs seek cake at the local food bank.

    So yes, what has the SNP Government done for us that the Westminster Parties haven’t.

    That’s a joke Colin, but not funny!

  208. CameronB Brodie

    Correction: it might actually be the World Health Organisation that acknowledges sex as biological.

  209. Liz g

    Cameron @ 2.03
    Dr Jim is right Cameron and don’t be telling me I don’t understand Constitutional issues…
    It’s a basic concept that if you don’t want yer Government to do something then yer vote needs tae count… Aye…?
    Therefore logic dictates that anyone wanting the GRA ajusted/abandoned/reversed need independence to have any chance of influencing the legislation!
    To stay within the Westminster system gives Scots no chance to instruct their government.
    Westminster (as are a host of other governments) are looking at changing the GRA too…. They are just a bit behind Holyrood.
    The best way to protect Women/Men/Indeffrent rights is to bring yer Government within slapping distance.
    So anyone setting their face against independence because of this issue is delusional.

  210. Colin Alexander

    @ Undeadshaun

    The SNP also abolished the hospital parking charges and I have no problem giving the SNP credit where it is due. I think the alcohol minimum pricing could save thousands of lives longer term and is possibly the greatest achievement of the SNP so far.

    Prescriptions not being means-tested at point of delivery was introduced by the LibDems / Labour, as was free personal care for senior citizens.

    Policies, Labour under Lamont, then wanted to abolish.

    As I said, these are only policies that can be overturned. They are temporary.

    They can be overruled or abolished ANY TIME Westminster decides to do so, just like EU Membership for Scotland.

    That’s why independence / sovereignty are so much more important.

  211. Meindevon

    This all just seems so unjust that I want to say fight it to the bitter end.

    However at the same time, this is probably going to be one of the most important points in Scotland’s history. Do we want you distracted and mentally and possibly physically stressed by what will no doubt be a long drawn out affair against the establishment.

    I think this needs to be your decision not ours.

    Whatever it is, I know we will back you 100pc.

  212. CameronB Brodie

    Liz g
    Liz, I’m 100% for indy but I also have extensive knowledge of human rights issues. The SNP is shooting itself in the foot with this. If folk are determined to defend the SNP over this ideological capture, then it calls their judgement into question. It also undermines the potential for indy.

  213. Meindevon

    Oops sorry.

    Last post should have been on the new thread.

  214. CameronB Brodie

    That might have been better reading as, “I’m 100% for indy. largely due to my extensive knowledge of human rights issues”.

  215. Jack Murphy

    OT. From The National on-line:

    “MEMBERS of the Conservative Party support bringing back capital punishment and believe Donald Trump would make a good prime minister of the UK, a new survey has found.

    The YouGov poll also found most members believe that Islam is a “threat” to the UK……”

    Shocking,awful and frightening on so many levels.

  216. gus1940

    Good article by George Kerevan in today’s National.

    I’s time for a campaign of Civil Disobedience.

    Let’s make such a bloody nuisance that it will get right up their backs and make them really mad as hell.

    There is no need to break the law or resort to violence- there are plenty ways to make them really mad and inconvenienced.

    If that doesn’t seem to be working we could adopt similar means as adopted by the Suffragettes.

    At Westminster the SNP group should bend the rules of procedure as far as possible and if necessary break them.

    In Edinburgh we have countless streets named after Hanoverian Royals, English Politicians and English Places. I don’t think there is any law preventing the council changing the names and at the same time remove many of the city’s statues.

    In Glasgow there is a Square that needs renaming and in Aberdeen one particular main thoroughfare in need of the same..

  217. Liz g

    Cameron B Brodie @ 2.53
    I agree Cameron,the SNP misread the public mood on this…
    I’m speaking more of the people who say that they won’t vote for Independence if the SNP go ahead with it…
    I probably don’t need to tell you that it’s Apple’s and oranges thinking.
    This argument is not just in Holyrood,it’s taking place across many “western” governments and we need to be clearer on that….
    It’s not just an SNP hobby horse and the best chance we have of putting the kybosh on it is to bring the Government within slapping distance 🙂

  218. Bobp

    O/t Phil neville says team GB wont be an ‘all English affair’. Nice.

  219. Bobp

    Should have said Olympic team GB.

  220. CameronB Brodie

    Liz g
    Slapping distance is crucial to the delivery of good governance. Unfortunately, Westminster is remote and unconcerned about Scotland’s well-being (see the full-English Brexit). I just hope the SNP sort themselves out over this. They could start by employing new legal advisors, IMHO.

    Human Rights for Women and World Public Order: The Outlawing of Sex-Based Discrimination

  221. Lenny Hartley

    Liz g the problem is that the msm will make a meal of it and the front pages of the dead tree scrolls and the tv headlines will all about how that SNP is going to allow Pedophiles into wee girls toilets and changing rooms. As you know most folk never get past the headline, therefore with the blanket coverage this issue will get when it best suits the UK Establishment , it cannot do anything ibut hurt the Yes vote the SNP may have parked it , However im afraid the damage may well have been done, time will tell. it does not matter how we perceive the issue it how the None politically aware , soft no Woman perceives it when the shitstorm hits the press and airwaves that matters.

  222. CameronB Brodie

    One for the SNP leadership. Somebody get it through their skulls that sex is not the same as gender-ID. I couldn’t care less if all the other parties support self-ID, the SNP is in government and have the stated objective of self-determination for Scotland. The rest are simply British nationalist carpetbaggers. I wouldn’t expect anything less from them.

    International Human Rights Law and Gender
    Equality and Non-Discrimination Legislation

    Across the world women continue to face a wide range of inequalities and discrimination because they are women. Such gender inequality and sex discrimination takes diverse forms and results from the conduct of a variety of actors, across public and private spheres. For example, in a wide range of jurisdictions laws and policies continue to actively discriminate against women in areas such as legal status, nationality, family and marriage, inheritance and property rights.

    Violence against women is pervasive, while legal and justice sector responses fail to effectively address, prevent and punish it. Discrimination against women and girls in the workplace, and in relation to education and healthcare, remains widespread. Meanwhile a series of barriers continue to impede women’s access to legal protection and redress.

    Indeed, in as much as the forms of discrimination against women and the factors behind it vary, so too do the measures required to address it. Ensuring the principle of gender equality is enshrined in domestic law and enacting legislation which prohibits discrimination in all aspects of women’s lives and provides women with appropriate remedies are just some of the legal measures which international human rights law requires of states to prevent, address and redress gender discrimination and move closer to achieving gender equality. Yet they are vital.

    First because such legal provisions provide women with a normative basis and procedural mechanisms on which to seek justice when they face varied forms of discrimination and inequality. Second, because they play a broader social role and constitute a crucial element in preventative and regulatory efforts. They not only send an important signal that gender inequality and discrimination against women are unlawful but also establish standards at the national level against which various actors can measure and improve their conduct.

    This briefing paper summarises the basis of these international obligations and outlines a number of the key elements which nondiscrimination and gender equality laws must include in order to guarantee compliance. Its focus is on legal provisions, usually found in the areas of civil, administrative or constitutional law, which are designed to offer express and specific equality and nondiscrimination protection. It does not address the correlative international obligations on States to enact effective criminal laws to deal with certain forms of discrimination against women, such as gender-based violence.1

  223. CameronB Brodie

    P.S. The Greens are simply virtue-signaling misogynist.

  224. Liz g

    Lenny Hartley @ 6.12
    Sadly I have to agree they should have stayed well clear of this till after Indy.
    It would also have given more time to see how it played out in other countries. Not to mention that any cause which demands Orwellian Double Speak is deeply flawed anyway, and the Trans people need to go back to the drawing board and find a way to put their case without denying science.
    We’ve only just about stoped the religions doing that!

  225. David

    Nicola not getting told Sillars was at it private talks in Moscow then Alec Neill and friends set up a meeting in Holyrood when SNP found out they condemned it .
    And time to scrap the license fee

  226. Gary

    The BBC I chock full of biases. People tend to look from one viewpoint and see that the BBC is biased against THEM. The BBC retorts that it gives as equally a hard time to the ‘other lot’ whenever this charge is levelled against them. But this isn’t QUITE true.

    If you look at the BBC and look at it from other points of view you will see that there are, in fact, MANY biases. They aren’t straightforward but they are definitely revealing.

    We know they are biased against SNP and Scottish Independence, regarding it as fringe, when it isn’t, and regarding supporters as ‘Cybernats’ But further they ARE biased against other viewpoints such as Brexit.

    Disregarding the fact that this is policy of the government, the opposition and a referendum some years back they still regard it as something that is fringe (not saying I agree with ANY of these things, just demonstrating a point) People who support it are stupid according to the BBC and despite Parliament voting to respect the referendum it is still something they put across like it won’t happen.

    Most of the main programmes are Labour(ish) friendly but not Corbyn friendly. Corbyn has been smeared by them as has the party, but this is at the behest of the Blairites IN Labour. So they ARE Blairites, but willing to smear the party to oust Corbyn.

    On foreign affairs, understandably, they report the stupidity of Trump. Unfairly, they never report anything positive he does AS a positive ie deciding not to go to war, for example, was reported as some kind of weakness. They’d rather the warmonger Hillary had started a war. They ARE pro Democrat, which shouldn’t be the case, they should be reporting neutrally. But not just ANY Democrat Presidential Candidate, no, certainly not! Bernie Sanders was pummelled by their US correspondent the other night as being unrealistic etc etc.

    Their biases are VERY refined and not always immediately apparent and they are FAR from impartial. Not ALL of their programmes have even the SAME biases though. For example Question Time under Dimbleby was pro UKIP and gave Farage a platform from which to build support for his party and for Brexit. This helped them overcome accusations of bias.

    So, in summary, they are hardline Unionist, Blairite Labour, pro war and right wing Democrat and anti Brexit. They ae okay with Tories as long as they are ‘wet’ and will basically regurgitate whatever they are told to by the people who are in charge of such things as propaganda. You can decide for yourself who THAT is, is it the government of the day? The PM? 77th Brigade? MI6?

    Whoever it is it’s not the people who pay the license fees and people of ALL political beliefs, except the narrow range outlined above, are spotting it more readily now…

  227. geeo

    I see coco is back again.

    Never mind, with his track record, I doubt he will last long.

    Didn’t you get told to shut the feck up about spamming your “custodians of colonial devolution” pish by the blog owner, just before your ban ?

    Yet her you are, spamming again.

    Tic tok.

  228. CameronB Brodie

    The SNP has researchers right, right?. Well why the hell were/are the SNP pushing self-ID and the denial of science and legal doctrine? And who the hell is giving them legal advice?

    Women’s Legal Landmarks
    Celebrating the history of women and law in the UK and Ireland

  229. CameronB Brodie

    @SNP management
    This push for self-ID is seriously irrational and would be damaging to the cause of women and Scottish independence. Get the policy punted, pronto.

    N.B. Gender and gender-ID are not the same as sex. Gender is the social construction of opportunity and oppression built upon sex. Gender-ID is an emotional construct of the sexed individual, it has no real-world substance.

    Gender, Sexuality and Development: Revisiting and Reflecting


    This article looks at how the Institute of Development Studies (IDS) has participated in, contributed to, and been shaped by debates around gender and sexuality. Through interviews with key participants in the gender and sexuality research story of IDS, we explore certain periods and themes over the last four decades.

    These are the introduction of gender research at IDS in the 1970s, the development of the MA Gender and Development (GAD) in partnership with the University of Sussex in the late 1980s; the co-construction of knowledge with the development of BRIDGE in the 1990s; and the Pathways of Women’s Empowerment programme, gender myths and sexuality, and the emergence of work on men and masculinity from 2000. These selected stories highlight the particular strength of IDS’ convening role in creating the spaces for academics, activists and others to come together to politicise the dialogues by revealing normative assumptions often taken for granted in gender and sexuality.

    2 The birth of gender studies at IDS

    The 1970s marked a significant era of change for women’s organising. Second-wave feminism was well under way in the US and the UK. Amid a wave of feminist reform in areas such as abortion and contraception, the United Nations (UN) declared 1975 to be International Women’s Year.

    A dynamic mix of global and local feminisms was ushering in a new focus on women in development activism and research. Ester Boserup’s (1970) pioneering work on women’s role in economic development was taken up enthusiastically, and the 1975 first world conference on the status of women held in Mexico led to the creation of many new institutions. Among them were the development of the African Training and Research Centre for Women (ATRCW) in Addis Ababa (1975), the founding of the United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM) in 1976, and the establishment of local women’s movements including one of the first Africa=wide networks of women, the Association of African Women for Research and Development (AAWORD) in 1977 (Berger 2007).

    With the women in development (WID) approach, social movements were aiming to ‘visibilise’ women (Kabeer 1994). It was, however, still an uphill struggle. As Kabeer notes: ‘development [had] been [up until then] about men, by men and for men’ (1994: ix). This struggle was paralleled in the struggle to get gender included both as a research focus and teaching programme within IDS….

  230. CameronB Brodie

    If folk living in Scotland aren’t prepared to look after their human rights, which are arbitrary under the Britain constitution (see the full-English Brexit), they could at least think of the children. The full English Brexit will result in the loss of any hope for Scotland as a cultural unit, or nation. Add self-ID to this and you have real potential and momentum towards a totalitarian state. English Tory flavour.


    European Convention on Human Rights (‘ECHR’) was ratified by the UK on March 8, 1951.1 Thereafter, the European Court of Human Rights (‘ECtHR’ or the ‘Strasbourg Court’) was set up as an international court in 1959, though the substantive laws were only incorporated into the domestic legal system in 1998 through the enactment of the Human Rights Act 1998, which is ‘one of the most contentious pieces of legislation on the UK statute books.’2 Relatedly, the Conservative government has recently made a proposal ‘to repeal the Human Rights Act 1998 and replace it with a British Bill of Rights.’3 This proposal has been the subject of vast controversy and throughout will be the main subject of this paper.

    Appropriately, the focus of this exploration will be on the fundamental relationship that exists between the ECtHR and the UK domestic courts, with consideration as to whether Strasbourg jurisprudence should indeed represent the minimum that is accepted before an English court. Accordingly, the argument proposed will unfold as follows, contrary to the diet of misinformed press articles (in particular those printed in The Sun), the ECtHR is not a radical court. Subsequently, the Strasbourg court does indeed look for consensus and additionally does provide a more nascent view of human rights.

    Ultimately, it will be demonstrated that although confusion and inconsistencies have ascended in relation to the Human Rights Act, a repeal and replacement of it with a British Bill of Rights could potentially ‘place our relationship with international and European human right law in jeopardy,’4 and thus instead of repealing the Act, more guidance and education should be given. Therefore, in contrast to the views of the Conservative government and other opponents, it will conclude that the ECtHR should indisputably be seen as representing the minimum that is accepted before an English court….

  231. David

    I prefer to see people who actually live in Scotland commenting not Germany or any other country.

  232. Al-Stuart


    BBC FFS…

    Many island businesses are closing because of the CalMac and CMAL incompetence.

    In breach of their charter, the British Unionist Media State broadcaster is at it again with their SNP-badddd meltdown. The SNP rescued Ferguson Shipbuilders from closure.

    Decent minded Scots and especially islanders are grateful for a government that actually did something to help save a Scottish Shipyard.

    When, oh when will Holyrood debate the BBC repeatedly breaching the BBC charter and the BBC fraudulently taking money off of people with menaces.

    Stuart, PLEASE can you put a big red button on your website directly linking us and WoS to their complaints form page so e can all report the BBC every time we see this carp? Serious request. Thanks.

    I pay the BBC license fee as my job would be lost with a criminal conviction, but it gives me the dry boakhaving to give these BBC pe do supporters money to defame my First Minister and my government…

    I want Scotland to become independent to stop the Tories killing the disabled. Catch a load of Theresa May’s coupon on the welfare reform death list….

    The BBC bias is causing IndyRef2 heaps of damage and either costing Islanders their jobs with this ferry pi sh or worse, killing us aff via Westminster DWP and ATOS etc.

    Stu., any chance you can help nudge the Scottish Government to bring the highly paid BBC Scotland executives before committee at the Scottish Parliament to explain themselves?

    I believe Scotland will NOT win Independence until the likes of BBC Scotland stop this SNP badddd garbage.

    We know the BBC are bias creeps. But old Labour Mrs McGinty in the schemes and LibDem Hamish McSporran up the glen could do with some help opening the eyes to the excrement they are being served from the Union TV station.

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