Wings Over Scotland

Very well put ha ha.
On the subject of Hunt, he is the preferred choice of Josie Day, an art shop owner in Stirling. Hunt is more statesman like – according to Josie, in the Guardian, which was seeking opinion during May’s visit the other day.
Well that’s one shop that won’t be getting my business. Hunt! Statesman! While Scots suffer!

Very good Chris, but quite scary when you think about it.

I hope Widdicome sees this 🙂
Tells you a lot about the World view of Brexiteers – “If you are not the Master then you must be a slave”

You cannot get better proof that our English colonial overlords see Scots as inferior and merely ‘colonials’ to exploit, than what the two Tory liars have had to say yesterday. Over and over again, they have made it clear their utter, utter contempt for both democracy and the people of Scotland.

In short, we can summarise both Boris and hunt’ views from yesterday as this;

‘we own you Scotland, and we don’t care what you sh*tty Scottish people think, WE OWN YOU. Scotland is OUR possession to play with, as wee see fit, so shut the f*** up.’.

That’s the spirit, to sacrifice all of that and more so that massa’s money don’t get taxed, makes you proud to be British.

I wonder just how much money is actually stashed away in those tax havens.

Since 1707, the so-called ‘Union’ of Imperial England and its northern neighbour, Scotland, has been little more than the acquisition and management of a lucrative plantation, with extensive mineral rights and a compliant and mostly docile indigenous labour force, which came to believe that Scottish slave and English master are better together.
The suppression and exploitation of Scotland by England ever since, has been an easy victory for propaganda and the democratic deficit, but above all, for the disease known as English Colonialism.
That Scottish Independence remains uncertain, testifies to the enduring stranglehold which England exerts over Scotland, with all the tricks of the Empire trade still in use and still very effective. Would that the English Establishment’s Brexit suicide had come a lot sooner.
It remains to Scotland’s shame, that Independence has only become a realistic possibility, due largely to the onset of a kind of madness among England’s Ruling Class.

Surely next time, we’ll choose Independence. Please?

Scotland’s case is fundamental, built on a presumption to national sovereignty and independence not on Brexit or whether Scotland ie the people stay in the EU or not.
Let us stick to the basic proposition. The rest is argumentation of a different ‘colour’, designed to tempt and lead astray.

@ Breeks – in 1939, Britain fought Europe

Eh? Have you seen the film?

Brexit in one spot on cartoon.

How do you get ordinary voters to sign up for far right political policies and ideology? They won’t benefit, it’s not in their personal interests, and yet they do. Whatever were Middleborough folks thinking about, voting Leave, when their area’s economy depends on being in the EU and selling cars there?

Firstly you need a few beguilingly simplistic policies – stop immigration, stop sending the EU money, take back control, turn the clock back. Secondly a weak and outdated democratic system with disillusioned voters helps. And thirdly a media willing to play along giving far right policies credence and not asking awkward questions.

Voila! A rightwing takeover is possible. See the UK and US for perfect examples.

Ordinary workers vote for parties who intend to screw them.

 If you want to see a mature, reflective, engaged, erudite and educated politicial discourse on Europe, follow the perignations of Miggledy – perhaps the best president Ireland has had  link to twitter.com You : cat lady Us: Miggeldy All the winning 

Ottomanboi says: at 9:18 am
“Scotland’s case is fundamental, built on a presumption to national sovereignty and independence….
Let us stick to the basic proposition.”

I am all for that, Ottomanboi, and you are absolutely right in principle. But the British Empire was built on a complete disregard for the sovereignty and independence of all the countries which were invaded and then occupied by British forces, which then declared each one as belonging to the King/Queen of England.

To this day, Westminster simply does not recognise or respect in any meaningful way, either the sovereignty of the Scottish people, or their right to self-determination. Hence the discussion moves on to the means of changing the contemptuous intransigence and arrogance of what is the ruling force in the Union, viz the English Establishment, and its political wing, the Tory Party.

I see Sky announcing that’s poll of Tory Party members give
Bojo the Clown 74% of the votes.

Confirmation of what we knew, England wants to jump off a cliff
With bomb on their back and a promise of a 40foot thick marshmallow below.

Scotland will be fine if we just cut the restraining cord.

Scotland cannot leave the Union. Why is that? Scotland’s economy, political and societal shifts must always be managed ‘over there’ by a distant political system because it’s too dangerous for Scotland to think, talk and walk independently. Scotland is in the ‘care’ of WM’s benign dictatorship that looks after a tiny % of its citizens whilst fleecing Scotland through a complex network of institutionalised class power structures. Far removed from the fundamental principles of democracy they are managed by those who deliberately and knowingly restrain Scotland’s economic potential because that doesn’t fit with an agenda of entitlement to Scotland’s vast resources.

Except that it’s all falling apart now – a million lives lost –unique to the UK where something is going very wrong. The Union does not serve the majority and most certainly is detrimental to the health and well-being of most UK citizens. All democrats should support its deconstruction and Scotland’s independence.

‘But what headlines reporting on this data missed were the 623,000 deaths and why that number was important in the year to mid-2018. This was 20,000 more than the previous year – a 3% increase. That is startling because it continues a rise in mortality that began with the first significant fall in UK life expectancy in 2014 and means that UK life expectancy will still be lower today than it was then, five long years ago…Something is going very wrong. And whatever is going on is unique to the UK because in no other European country have there been overall falls in life expectancy that look at all like this. The figures for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are almost certainly as bad as England, but no one has as yet bothered to study them in any detail – let alone tried to work out where they are heading…In 2017, new ONS figures revealed that a million future years of life in Britain were no longer forecast to be lived. By March 2019, the actuaries of the UK had declared that this change was now established for all age groups including new born infants…Ask yourself this: why do we care so little that we cannot even be bothered to analyse and interrogate our mortality statistics properly?’

link to theconversation.com

Anyidea how manywere at hustings
On the bbc heard canned applause

@Terry
My bad * Grousebeater not WGD* see its hard to get facts straight.

Marianne Taylor, Angela Haggerty, Paul McNamee on BBC Shereen. Giggly Angela and Marianne.

There are some people who believe that the news media etc manage the independence debate they decry.

Outlander, the new Bruce film. Etc.

I suppose that’s why they are on the BBC.

Been saying it for years – this is now really heading into ‘true emancipation’ territory and our MSM totally ignore facts of democracy being stifled if not strangled before our very eyes.
This is not surprising as 95% + of all those working for the media are died in the wool Unionists, how could it be otherwise with MI5/6 vetting of all BBC staff (STV will be on same lines).
If current Scottish media survives it will suffocate Independence from ever occurring. Media must be better managed or avoided by SNP
If you want to know where this is going look at Black America and you will sadly see where this will all end up very soon. British state is mobilizing through the Tories / Labour are hamstrung and useless & Lib Dems well they are totally beneath contempt IMO.
Scottish citizens FFS wake up smell the coffee and get polls moving to YES at a pace ! Get Indy mobilized pronto !

Famous15 says:

THAT banner at Perth was the biggest Unionist gift you could give.

From the pics of the event I can see a few ill conceived banners. It’s not all about England and saying it is is just nonsense. “England get out of Scotland”. Eh? Who thinks that’s a good message!?

And that ‘Tory Scum out’ thing being unfurled again. Jeez, it’s not the 1980s. Whether the England chooses Tories should be none of our concern. And what would the banner holders replace them with? Corbyn and Labour?

How does anyone think that helps the Indy cause? Or, were there people there who have a quite different agenda?

There was one excellent banner on show. Top half of an unmistakable BoJo head saying something like … “Time to choose our own future, before someone else does.”. Now that IS a good message to push.

I note the media are tending to show images of the poorly judged messages. Job done, folk smeared as loonies and extremists.

Anyone making last minute arrangements to go on the Ayr AUOB march, here’s a link to the published route with a slight change (below)

link to mobile.twitter.com

Where the original route was all the way to the bottom of the High street, it will now proceed 3/4 of the way down and detour through Newmarket St to the Sandgate.
As ever, subject to change.

Summary (check link though)
South Beach (Blackburn) Car Park, along the shore, by the Low Green, turn right down past the ‘Piv” Pavilion, by the County Buildings and down to the roundabout. Up towards Burns Statue Square – turn left down most of the High St, cut up through Newmarket St. to the Sandgate, up and back past the County buildings/Piv and finishing back at at the Low Green.

Ayr

link to livestream.com

In case you have not noticed Scotland is at war with England , not physical not guns or bombs
Psychological warfare
Every day
Every newspaper
Every TV station
Every radio station
Every political party

Wake up ,stop dreaming of fair play and ideas of inclusion and shared progress, England is not some mythical intangible thing , england is its people and a large bunch of them are here in Scotland working behind the scenes to ensure that Scotland remains under the control of England.
Yes there are Scots who help them who betray their own country for money you won’t change them just like you won’t change English people living in Scotland who will vote against your freedom.

@Manandboy 10:25
It is perhaps a pointless task to extract imperialism from that certain English mindset.
England’s history from 1066 has been about appropriation of land and property and taxation. Poor things!
Why the English ‘celebrate’ the Norman conquest is perplexing but its unrefined predatory influence endures in the establishment worldview of ‘the rest’.
All peoples seeking freedom in the British imperium inflicted bloody noses on the occupiers. There are many ways of doing that, not all messily sanguineous. Modern liberated Scotland needs to be prepared to strike and strike with boldness, conviction and energy.
Scottish nationalism can on occasions appear just a little ‘prim’, secured by stout Calvinist buttons.

Excellent image, says it all, the furure is bleak, Scotland’s future will be even more bleak if we don’t get out of this cesspit of so called UK, and fast.

Some great comments, I think Grouse beater was not being racist, as scotsrenewables points out @11.17am. Houses, ‘apartments’ etc are selling like hot cakes in Edinburgh, as far as I can see, and every time I see them saying so, I think, hmm, I bet that was bought by someone outside of Scotland, either for air b&b, or for tax relief purposes, or for a well off family buying for a son/daughter going to uni,and all the while, benefitting from free prescriptions, cleaner air, better water quality, better healthcare, than they would be getting in England.

I am sure I read a comment here a couple of years ago from someone who worked at an estate agents, who said that 95% of properties in Scotland were being sold to people from England. Fear is, they will mostly vote to keep Scotland shackled to their beloved England.

Re the anti English banners at Perth, be in no doubt this is likely orchestrated by the Britnats to portray Scots as English hating, narrow nationalists. How convenient, to get that banner all over the media, ‘hey England, the Scots really really hate you’! It’s called, divide and conquer.

It’s a build up to our English neighbours and relations accepting a takeover or some such thing, of the Scottish parliment, by the Britnats at WM, should the need arise, ie should Scotland dares to hold another independence referendum.

People in England will go along with it, my friends and family were so incredibly brainwashed in 2014, in the north of England, that they became quite anti Scotland actually, they were scathing of the SNP, ( some even ridiculed me, ‘ha ha ha’ for being a supporter of the SNP and independence), they ‘hated’ A.Salmond, but could not say why, and said things like, ‘you’s won’t manage without the oil though likes ha ha’! Etc.

It’s so easy to manipulate groups of people, and to demonise a group who you wish to control, in effect othering them, it’s classic tactic to undermine and oppress that group with the blessing of the group who feel badly done to, or jealous, or hated because the media and rogue government ruling over them, tells them their neighbour ‘hates’ them.

Scary times, let’s exit this decrepit UK, England will manage, and be glad to ditch their subsidy junkie called Scotland. Then we can get on as friends, not slaves and masters. Not holding my breath though. :-/

@Terry callachan 1:14
Ironically it is a guy born in Twickenham, Edward Dwelly, who compiled an authoritative Gaelic dictionary. Outsiders may well care for things locals do not. The poor man was cold shouldered in Scotland for his efforts and died in obscurity.
The digitized version of Dwelly’s dictionary is the work of a German, Michael Bauer.

@Jeff says:6 July, 2019 at 10:07 am:

” … The biggest group of people in Scotland who voted NO in 2014 were English people”
Away ya diddy ye are a racist and a disgrace. And an insult to English Scots for Yes.”

Terry just trots out whichever group he wants to discriminate against and claim it is them to blame for the defeat of 2014. He then asserts, (with upper case letters), that it is a, “FACT”. No statistics and no analysis of the statistics just a claim it is a, “FACT”.

Now a lifetime of diagnosing faults if often complex electro-mechanical systems teaches that before jumping to conclusions you must always ask yourself the question, “Why”?

The bare statistic just aren’t enough.

Here is an example of not asking why. When the Black Death struck in Europe it caused many massacres of Jewish people and accusations that Jews were poisoning the community water wells but no one bothered asking why they would do so.

Later the Black Death was blamed on rats and the statistics certainly show that there was increased rat infestations but again no one asked why. What really causes bubonic plague to spread is fleas and fleas certainly do infest rats but rats become more prevalent where there is poor human sanitation and fleas don’t need rats to spread for fleas will transfer from one human to another without the help of a rat.

So there you go – several statistics, all correct, but all bar the last one not the cause of infection of bubonic plague.

Statistics need to be carefully analysed before jumping to conclusions so perhaps Terry might pause a little before stating his, “FACTS”, and ask himself why more elderly people are voting NO. Could it perhaps be linke4d to the problem Scotland has that requires immigrants?

There is a problem whereby the older people who paid tax all their lives cannot get larger pensions because the Scottish birth rate has declined to the point where there isn’t enough younger folks earning and paying tax to sustain the state pension? The problem being there is a growing number of older people and a shrinking number of younger people and those older folks are not going to wake up on the morning of their 65th birthday and find they have suddenly become no voters overnight.

Those elderly people waking up on the morning of their 65thy birthday were NO voters before getting to be 65. That, Terry is why.

Latest estimate of marchers at AOUB march in Ayr is 13,000.

It is a great day for the march weatherwise.

@Breeks says: 6 July, 2019 at 1:28 pm:

” … Even occupied Territories hostile to their occupation like Belgium and Norway were contributing SS Battalions such Leon Degrelle’s SS Battalion. “

Aye! Richt!

There was an English Brigade too, Breeks, did you forget them?

“The British Free Corps (German: Britisches Freikorps) was a unit of the Waffen-SS during World War II, consisting of British and Dominion prisoners of war who had been recruited by Nazi Germany. The unit was originally known as the Legion of St George.”

@O/T:

The Wings stall was on the live stream just a few minutes ago.

Racism is the desire to silence and exclude the Other. As such, the full-English Brexit is intensely racist in nature.

“Decolonizing Political Theory”:
Exploring the Implications of Advocacy for Political Science

Paper Presented for the Annual Meeting of the Canadian Political Science Association, University of Victoria, June 4-6, 2013

On June 13, 2012, the Political Theory section of the Canadian Political Science Association (CPSA) conference held a Centennial Panel on “Political Theory, Empirical Political Analysis and The Evolution of Political Science”.1 The abstract for the session noted that while “political theorists have teamed up with empirical analysts to engage in serious assessments of their assumptions and the questions they each ask”, many political theorists have been uncomfortable with these developments.

Some political theorists have been questioning political theory’s combination with empirical political analysis because “interpretivists seek to combine theory with empirical work in different ways”. Other political theorists, because of their relativist assumptions, “remain deeply sceptical about the idea of base line facts about the state, the nature of human beings, and the very existence of categories like race, gender and culture by which people are managed politically”.

One of the most thought provoking presentations on this panel was given by Andrew Rehfeld, who argued, drawing on his article “Offensive Political Theory”, that much of what constitutes political theory does not belong in the discipline of political science. Of particular significance was his assertion that advocacy did not constitute political theory, as envisioned in political science, because it was not seeking knowledge about the political world. Rehfeld’s presentation, however, stands in sharp contrast to a prominent initiative in political theory – attempts to “decolonize” the subfield.

A number of workshops and panels at the 2012 CPSA conference were “seeking to critically examine the colonial impulses and decolonizing potential of political theory”.2 It was assumed that western political thought has “served, either implicitly or explicitly, to justify the dispossession of indigenous and/or other non-European peoples’ lands and self-determining authority…”, but that “colonized peoples and their allies [have] been able to selectively appropriate and critically transform these theoretical frameworks to support their own discourses and struggles over land and freedom…”.

link to cpsa-acsp.ca

Re the visits by Jeremy and Boris to Scotlandshire Tories yesterday I heard part of this interview today—-it was

Tory Grandee Lord Chris Patten speaking on LBC Radio:

“….. Both candidates are vying with one another to propose more and more extreme policies on Brexit, and more and more unacceptable ways of handling our interests with Europe and the rest of the world…….”

Independence for Scotland ? I say YES and the sooner the better.

Held up in my car this morning, pre 8am by the bloody orange walk?
Looks like Police told to let them do what they like with regard to letting
Them belt out sectarian tunes before 8am and turn a blind eye to drinking
Cans of lager on the street.

There is a wonderful piece of corruption by the DUP by awarding the travelling
Ulster Bands grants under the promotion of developing musical skills in the Provence.

Tangerine Trouble Makers
Satsuma Sectarians
Clementine Catholic Chasers

The future is Trite the future can’t be Orange!

Legion of St George – ( the British SS battalion) was featured in a TV documentary some time ago. Although there were hundreds of thousands of allied prisoners only about fifty ever were recruited on promises of an easy life, and there were never more than 25 at any time in the SS.
Mostly misfits looking for free beer and the chance to meet girls. They were useless as soldiers and were kept well away from combat although the Germans used them as propaganda.

Robert Peffers says:
6 July, 2019 at 3:11 pm
@Breeks says: 6 July, 2019 at 1:28 pm:

There was an English Brigade too, Breeks, did you forget them?

Nope. My father, who died in 1977 he had a book about them. I think it was called “Jackals of the Reich” but after all these years, I don’t recall the author or publisher. But this apparent “discovery” about the existence of a UK SS Battalion is not new information.

Where did you get your information this was an English Brigade?

Callachan the racist bigot, just back and already being abusive.

Doubt he will last long.

Times a ticking, dear boy.

Across Europe before and during WW2 a lot of people were persuaded that the struggle was between Christendom and the Bolsheviks. Communism was the real enemy. Vichy France (which the UK openly fought) was of this mind. Many young men volunteered and fought with the Germans against the Russians.

The SS had regiments of volunteers. They were serious about their struggle and were among those who made the last stand among the ruins of Berlin.

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

By contrast, the Legion of St George was never a serious outfit. Just a propaganda exercise.

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

So why was the UK different. Well, it almost certainly would have also had anti communists volunteering if it had been occupied. Also, under occupation there would have been a Vichy style government here. There would have been no shortage of collaborators. And we know which political party they would have been found in!

The very effective propaganda which actually took place, of course, had the Nazis as the enemy and then the USSR as allies.

I’m pretty sure there were many in the UK who would have allowed things to play out far differently – from Royals down.

Just back from Ayr. Good turnout in my view – certainly into 5 figures.

Artyhetty

The Bretheren and Sisterern and their accompanying “musicians” belting-out their party tunes before 8am is an ancient rite.

They need to waken-up their home towns, before getting onto the buses to travel to The Big Walk. Then, in the evening, on returning, they need to go through the reverse rigmarole.

“It’s oor kultur, innit.”

I still remember, over 40-years ago, the local ludge was processing at about 7.30am, and our then collie heard the flute band and bolted – he came home, very tired and hungry, two days later. They have that effect on intelligent life.

Breeks and Robert Peffers:

Did you mean this lot?

link to en.wikipedia.org

They featured in an episode of Foyle’s War, too.

@Terry callachan 3:09pm

Did you read the article? As the old saying goes “any man may read a book, but does he understand it?”
Did you understand it, did the bit about the relationship between tax and inflation sink in? If it did, is perhaps an assumption that indirect taxation alone can temper inflation?
If it cannot, and direct taxation is also required, who pays the direct tax, pensioners or the workforce? There is far more which that article does not delve into. A simple reading of it without understanding, is “tax isn’t required, just print money”

Tl;dr – Government debt is money. Tax cancels money. No tax means too much money. Too much money means runaway inflation.

OT re. the Tories and their Brexit negotiation strategy. Time for some professional Brexitology?

Brexit negotiations: From negotiation space to agreement zones

Abstract

Brexit is decidedly a “big question”. We agree with International Business scholars who say that such questions need to be addressed using an inter-disciplinary approach. We use bargaining theory models of rational behavior and the negotiation literature to explain various Brexit options and predict their consequences. Considering the lack of relevant experiential knowledge, and the multidimensional high-stakes negotiations underway, it is little wonder that anxiety is growing across all 28 European Union member states. Our analysis supports a coherent approach from rational bargaining model to real-life international negotiation. We position outcome scenarios in different agreement zones and explore their ramifications.

Keywords
bargaining theory negotiation analysis agreement zone Brexit negotiations outcome scenarios

Gorgeous weather for the March in Ayr…lovely day out …folk in good humour and in large numbers..thank you AOUB for top class organisation.

I can’t wait to see the huge article on the BBC covering the March

Giving goose 5.29pm. Hope you came back with a retort. I never put up with sh**e like that down here. Soon put them right about who’s subsiding who.

12th July Ulster Orange March accumulation. Bigots, racists. Misogynists. Black balls Total chancers ruining the economy. Unequal, injustice and unfair.

On the 4th may Glasgow March.i met lots of English Scots for yes. Great folk, had good banter as I walked with them. These are the kind of English people Scotland needs.

@Bobp says: 6 July, 2019 at 9:26 pm:

” … On the 4th may Glasgow March.i met lots of English Scots for yes. Great folk, had good banter as I walked with them. These are the kind of English people Scotland needs.

Yes, Bobp, but there is also another pleasing side to that statement – This is the Scotland that needs those kind of English people. Trouble is we just may have too many of the wrong kind of English people here at the present time.

Have you noticed that many of the Scottish cultural institutions and educational institutions that should be reflecting Scottish culture, arts and education have English people at their head?

I suspect that very soon after Scotland regains her independence these people will, of their own free will, decide to go back home to England.

When Boris Johnson says *Holyrood is stuffed with Nationalist politicians* what he’s really saying is How dare Scottish people vote wrongly

Boris Johnson ia blaming Scottish people for having the right to vote how they choose

These are dangerous words

Robert P.10.03pm. Agree Robert, which is why I said to TC my head agreed with his 1.23pm post. But my heart fervently hopes that the good people in Scotland will vote in an indy ref2 for an independent compassionate nation who will treat all citizens with dignity and humanity.

Remember the BBC in Scotland. There target is the over sixties who get their world view solely from the BBC or other British Unionist Media. The BBC in Scotland is not a liberal institution, as they are selling contemporary British nationalism, which is a form of authoritarian totalitarianism. The BBC in Scotland is about to go into propaganda overdrive, or else they will be failing to uphold their royal charter.

#DissolveTheUnion

Great article by Ruth Wishart at

link to ruthwishart.scot

So you take back powers already devolved, using Brexit as the alibi, then you re-shape the policy landscape in your own image arguing a merely pragmatic need for UK wide regulation. Be afraid, folks, be very afraid. At the very moment we are understandably focussed on the most propitious time to move to full independence, the Govite tendency is sawing away at the very foundations of the current limited autonomy we enjoy.
Time to tell the unlikely lads to get their tanks off our lawns.

Also in Tomorrow’s Sunday Herald by Iain MacWhirter

Tories have thrown down the gauntlet to Nicola Sturgeon.

So what now?

Sinky. Exactly, time for anyone with Scotlands interests at heart to switch off gogglebox, corrie, emmerdale, eastenders , and wake the fcuk up.

Giving goose. Thumbs up.

Giving goose, you dont get many foreign people moving to Ireland and feeling a sense of ‘entitlement ‘ . Just saying like. Lol.

Golfnut, i was surprised at reception from locals, being a town with tory mp and msp, i wasnt expecting the happy smiley faces from elderley folk waving from their upstairs windaes.
Only negative thing i saw was the polis giving the yes Rutherglen stall a hard time for flogging stuff presumably without a trading license. Somebody suggested amending the price list to say suggested donations, but I dont know if that was enough to appease them as had to rush to catch our minibus back to the Arran Ferry. Met a few wingers, Ronnie, Briandoonthetoon and Paula Rose.
Braw day, was my 78 year old brothers first Indy March although he has supported Indy since the seventies had never made a march before so your never too old to start.

@Lenny Hartley (11.15) –

I didn’t make the Ayr gathering.

That is worrying, what you said about the Yes Rutherglen stall.
Many of us know GM. She doesn’t stand for any shite.

Looking forward to updates, from her and Ronnie.

🙂

@ Lenny Hartley.

Aye, it was good. Saw the Arran banner, wondered if you were over. Was over at the wings stall to pick up a badge and key ring for my son, but we were heading home, Louie( French bulldog) was firing on all cylinders from the rear, so we missed most of the activity at the green. Glad we saw the Yes Bikers roaring past us though.

Ian brotherhood 11.53pm. Same thoughts exactly, surprised geeo and cubby didn’t jump on him calling him an anti e”””h bigot. But whatever.

@cubby, was just gòing to ask same question !

If Mr P says “wrong type” meaning No voters, rather than the “right type” meaning Yes voters, what is the issue for Bobp ?

Now, if Mr P had suggested removing the voting franchise for English people in Scotland (like Callachan, then i would indeed suggest Mr P was guilty of Anti English bigotry.

However, I am absolute certain he would neverxever suggest such a dis-enfranchishment.

So, Bobp, actual and usual backer of Callachan’s ACTUAL anti English bigoted views, what are we tj be outraged over exactly?

Orri completely agree.
Said it before but standing in a queue the day after the ref and if I’m honest in a bit of a state the woman in front of me was having a conversation with the woman behind me. She’d “flown up to vote” and was flying back that night.

I’m now more aware there are lots of people who Work In London Live In Edinburgh/ fill in any name and to be honest,I’m confused really how I feel about it.

If I earned more working in London but which means I could afford a substantial house, good school, access to NHS,,free care, free prescriptions,free tuition, less waiting times for any of these things but obviously pay council tax here but income tax elsewhere would I feel as strongly about the need for Independence ? I mean you could say in financial terms it is like the best of both worlds to quote Douglas Alexander or someone like that anyway.

Also based on conversations with friends who have prospered well by moving down south but lecture me on Scotland and actually get quite angry when Independence comes up, yet still have houses here that they rent out ?

I think as you say, something like the tax code is needed to ensure there is a fair way for voting

Think so, Cubby.

Watching Sky New paper review and had to rewind to check my ears had not deceived me..!!

Sunday Mirror Political Editor, Nigel Nelson, agreeing that Scots have a point about Indyref2 “and i do have some sympathy with their position, as brexit wasnt on table last time” then spoke about how damaging brexit will be, as it would “damage Scotland quite seriously so have every right to say, conditions have changed and we would like another referendum”

Sky News anchor: “moving on…”

Will a ‘Scottish’ newspaper break ranks and back indy ?

Geeo

Don’t think any Scot paper will break ranks and support Indy until after indepence is won.

What none of the TV programmes or newspapers ever point out is that the Scottish parliament has voted for indyref2. Unlike a second EU ref which has not had a vote for it at Westminster.

Howde and how goes Rev…

How goes ur weekend

CC toon is groovy, be it a paddy or a world tea field?

Ahm oot of the bin and thrust back in to life

But it was fun

With regard to what Robert P so rightly says at 10.03, I have been noticing that ever-increasing Anglicization of the leadership of Scottish institutions for the last forty years … With increasing astonishment, and without understanding in the least how it happens … Who appoints these people? … By which criteria? … And by which processes?

I know Robert might not like me saying this, and I admit my impression might be well off the mark, but I sometimes have the feeling that even Scottish governments, past and present, seem sometimes to be at fault in this regard … Is there some kind of excessive fear in some quarters, whether within or beyond Scottish government circles, of seeming to be anti-English which results in discriminating in favour of English applicants for jobs over and against equally or better-qualified Scottish candidates?

And who said, or ever dared to think that the Scots are ‘clannish’? Quite the contrary, in my (admittedly limited) experience.

But I have watched a whole University department in one of the oldest Scottish Universities – a department with a long and distinguished and specifically Scottish history – become almost completely Anglicised in just over a decade. With hardly a Scot left teaching there. I say ‘almost completely Anglicised’ because there were a small minority of other nationalities – other than English, but not Scots – also recruited or continuing to teach there during that time.

Eventually, the only Scots voices you might hear around the place belonged to cleaners, and some (not all) of the secretarial staff …

It might be impossible to prove, but don’t kid me on that that kind of thing happens purely by accident. And don’t tell me there weren’t equally good or better qualified Scots who could have just as well filled all the vacancies that occurred during that time. There certainly were – but they didn’t stand a chance.

I have also worked quite a lot abroad. It might not be the case when they are at home, but in my (yet again admittedly limited) experience, it does seem to me that it is a fair generalization to say that when the English are ‘abroad’, many of them (by no means all of them, but many all the same) are indeed ‘clannish’ and act in a way that excludes other people, especially the ‘natives’ of the place in question, whoever these natives happen to be.

It is quite extraordinary to watch this happening, and I have seen it happening quite a few times and in several different countries, both in Africa and in Europe, including here in Scotland.

I was once at a gathering of academics in someone’s home in Edinburgh, almost all of whom were English and working in various academic posts mainly at Edinburgh Uni. I think they forgot that I was present, or didn’t fully realise who I was or where I come from. It was a pleasant evening, and I enjoyed it except for one thing, which sticks in my memory (and in my craw). At a certain moment the conversation turned to their impressions of Edinburgh, and in particular of Edinburgh people. I can’t forget the guffaws that rang around around the room, and the approvingly self-satisfied tone in which these guffaws were delivered, when one not-so-distinguished fellow (a professional academic but not a renowned one, and no great light to the world) described Edinburgh people as ‘Scots who were desperately trying to be English … and failing!’

The condescension was palpable.

Having said that, I certainly know good English people who are genuinely mortified by such attitudes, and want nothing to do with such nonsense. And I have the greatest admiration and highest regard for organisations like ‘English Scots for Yes’, who make a wonderful contribution.

I also know English people who were certainly inclined to vote ‘No’ in 2014, but decided not to vote at all instead. On the grounds that this was not their country. They were clearly happy to stay here but they were elderly, and they were convinced that this was not their call. They thought it was for the people more genuinely of the place than they were: So they wanted to leave the decision-making to those with a longer term future in Scotland, whether for themselves or for their children. (Their own children were not up here with them, since they were married and making their lives in England).

Even though it is normally our civic duty to vote, that struck me as a very responsible and correct reason for abstaining, and I admired them for it. If people think things through so clearly and come to such conclusions, that seems absolutely fine to me. At the same time, for sure, it is quite correct that all those genuinely resident in Scotland should be entitled to vote on an independence referendum, and be free to cast their vote in the wy they see fit.

Alexa. Volume. MAX.

Gola Lambada

Dance

Bobp says:
6 July, 2019 at 8:44 pm
Breeks 5.32pm. I’m sure I read somewhere years ago that they were recruited from German pow camps.

Yes. That’s what I recall.

The numbers were bleak (from the Nazi point of view), but that’s understandable given that the UK was not conquered and occupied, and taking up with the Nazis was indisputably treasonable. However had the UK been occupied, I believe that would have changed.

Oswald Mosley’s blackshirts, the British Union of Fascists claimed a membership of 50k, and the extent to which the British aristocracy sympathised with the Nazis can only be speculated upon, but such speculation ran all the way up to the King. Lord Rothermere and his Daily Mail were pro Nazi at one stage too.

IF the UK had been occupied, the number of volunteers for the SS, and indeed the likely number of collaborators would have been on a par with any other occupied nation.

But all of this is speculation. “Coulda, woulda, shoulda” stuff that “didna”.

But these days, I feel more and more that too many arguments, from WW2 to Transphobia see the conversation firing off on a futile and often argumentative tangent. That’s perfectly fine, it’s the essence of discussion, but we are running dangerously short of time to save Scotland from Brexit, and every word which isn’t specific to this impending National Emergency seems like another contribution to the growing pile of wasted words and time.

I very much fear and suspect we are sleepwalking into Brexit, safe in the misguided belief we will be stronger as a movement after Brexit. I don’t believe we will be. If we are still in this Union after Brexit, we will lose the Euro National vote, the U18 vote, and while Nationalists might well seethe with deeper rage about our subjugation, it will only see Scotland polarised and entrenched, with pro independence sentiment continually pilloried by the UK Propaganda Factories.

Add to that unhappy scenario too, the loss of faith amongst our own side that such a spectacular windfall of such an incontrovertible Constitutional Stand-off which Brexit has represented for 3 years, contrary to Scotland’s emphatic Sovereign and Democratic rejection, can be allowed to pass over us virtually uncontested by our own excessively passive Government.

115 days to defend our Nation, in a crisis situation where our Nation absolutely needs the uncompromising and indefatigable defence of our Sovereign Constitution… and yet we remain inexcusably passive and dangerously complacent about it, and our leadership even seems oblivious to the groundswell of frustration.

A No vote can be just as Constitutionally Sovereign as a YES vote. We I’d NOT forfeit Sovereignty in 2014. Champion the cause of Sovereignty, make it absolute, and it is the Treaty of Union which cannot accommodate the Constitutional ramifications. Even, heaven forbid we lose a vote again, we would lose as a sovereign Nation with the sovereign right to try again preserved, and we can try as many times as it takes. But to forfeit this sovereign principle in pursuit of an ephemeral “one time” majority could be an incalculable disaster which would set precedents from which we might never recover.

We are trapping ourselves in a rule book being rewritten by Westminster. It has to stop.

Ian brotherhood at 1153 and Rp and others.

I agree regarding the anglicisation of key institutions in Scotland, Often if watching TV, and they indicate they are going to speak to the head of a body or institute of some kind, a nature trust or educational body or arts body in Scotland, I always think, I bet the minute they open their mouth, it will be an English accent. A nature project in the hebrides – English accent, a music project in Edinburgh- English accent. Over and over again.

Of course, the difficulty is to discuss this without troublemakers trying to stir racism and ethnic nationalism, and others.

I do think, that as in almost any other country I can think of, the Scottish Government should be doing everything possible to ensure senior publicly funded positions are occupied by Scots. It is what ANY other country does, and they are not called racists for doing so.

Sometime I hear people say that such things don’t matter, but actually, over time, they really do. We should guard our Scottish culture, because history shows, that time and time again, if we do not, England will wipe it out- or as they did in 1746 make it ‘illegal’.

@ Breeks.
‘ we did not forfeit our Sovereignty in 2014 ‘

Good post, and no, we didn’t forfeit our Sovereignty in 2014.
Why, because that wasn’t the question on the ballot paper.
For what its worth, these are some of my thoughts on this matter of Sovereignty.

A lot of presumptions seem to be made regarding our Sovereignty, mainly that we send it to Westminster via our MP’s and it would appear that there is a presumption that we are only allowed to exercise that Sovereignty as and when someone let’s us. These presumptions have no foundation in Scots Constitutional law, why, because we have never been asked who or what we lend our Sovereignty too and these assumptions have never been tested in court. If these assumptions or opinions are ever tested, there are only 2 jurisdictions with acceptable authority, Scots law and international law.
Lord Cooper stated that ‘ Parliamentary sovereignty is a purely English principle and not one recognised in Scots Constitutional law ‘.
If the people of Scotland are Sovereign, Westminster can’t be.
When we vote for Independent Statehood, we won’t be making our Parliament Sovereign, because that isn’t the question on the ballot paper.
I seem to remember that Nicola said it would be up to us to tell her when we are ready, we haven’t,at least not in a way that empowers the Scottish Parliament to act specifically on any issue.

In you listen to Radio Scotland, the voice of Scotland, other than presenters, politicians and sportsmen and women, the vast majority of the “expert” contributors on a daily basis have English accents.

Union jacket Ian Murray on BBC Politics Show with Gordon Brewster. I bet they don’t allow any SNP rep to counter his arguments

Sinky at 0833am,

Iain Murray the Labour careerist politician, plays the tory for the folk of Morningside to keep electing him, yet ‘talks’ ‘labour’ elsewhere – union jack suit and all. A fraud if ever their was.

This matter of accents is problematic. There is an argument that such is cultural imperialism and it has a negative effect on local children. I do not now see the taciturn dourness in children as I did in my day so schools in Scotland must be “teaching” self confidence.

I do recall a senior lecturer at my University in the 1970’s carrying out research into why Scots students contributed less at tutorials even though they knew the “answers”. Unofficially the effect of cultural imperialism was seen then as a possible answer.Perhaps cultural cringe might describe it better.

As for employment there is certain truth in like employing like and UK wide agencies have employment records which stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. No, I did not mention birds or bees!

What is the truth? I leave you to guess but do not dwell on it independence requires hard work to counter the avalanche of propaganda. I am now of the belief that they have overcooked the propaganda and peoples eyes are being opened to the Unionist dishonesty.

Rant over! Have a nice day.

Famous15 says:

I am now of the belief that they have overcooked the propaganda and peoples eyes are being opened to the Unionist dishonesty.

Indeed. Also, people won’t close their eyes again. Once you’ve seen reality, you can’t un-see it.

I think the BritNats have set themselves up badly for the IndyRef2 campaign. They’ve fired off most of the squibes too early.

Support for Indy has crept up and I don’t put that all down to Brexit. Though it looks like the WM/Tory fiasco has reached such depths that there has been a jump recently. Certainly something has panicked the BritNats. They’ve ignored Scotland for three years and now suddenly the keep talking about their precious Union.

Scotland on Sunday reports on Orange Walk in Glasgow with 8 arrests but not a single mention, never mind a picture, of the Ayr march attended by 13,000 and no arrests.

It is not a newspaper it is an organ of the Union.

Very dissapointing that march did not go through centre of Ayr and down High Street. Small numbers of public witnessed the event and most of them were supporters.

@McBoxheid 9:48am

Programmes such as the type you mention have been running around the world for decades. In the 70’s as a child I had to attend ‘Immigrant Afrikaans’ classes, even though english was the primary language schools taught in. Sotho was also on the curriculum. Such things tend to be compulsory, certainly for school children. The many other countries I’ve had any length of time in, it was expected of an adult to at least have a basic grasp. I’m not actually sure of Scotland/UK policy.
Certainly there are plenty of language centres and courses available to immigrants, refugees or anyone at all. Whether it’s a compulsory thing for children or adults I have no idea.

In saying that, the whole “Speak English” thing in my experience has little to do with that, it has two components. First, its directed at any non-english, english speaker. It’s any non-english accent which gets the ‘Speak English” better known as the “You wot?” treatment.
Secondly, it’s the insecurity and fear mixed with arrogance, that anyone speaking another language must be talking about them – they must be doing it deliberately to exclude them. If you like, you can find the same in a Welsh pub, though that does tend to be a bit more obviously deliberate lol !

I don’t want to be overly pejorative to England, its not my experience of the majority of English people I’ve spoken with, nor excusive to England; unfortunately, as our larger neighbour, it’s where it’s primarily encountered. Especially beyond the infamous ‘Watford Gap’ They don’t have the reciprocal exposure I suppose. Probably hear more Brooklyn accents from telly than elsewhere. Northern English accents are not beyond mockery either, naturally.

Magically, the rebuke to “Speak English” does tend to work, as evidenced by the number of Scots with a faux english accent. I don’t have any real issue with anyone’s accent melding with those of the place they live. It happens. It’s risible in those who have never left their town, far less the country. It’s not confined to the modern era though. The phenomenon has always been around, Romans, Norman French, you name it. Who are the elite, who is in power? Better dress and sound like them then, it marks one out as being above the rabble.
When the Lizard people ascend, there will be plenty practicing their hissing and developing a penchant for mice.

Sunday Herald dredging the swamps today just like SOS. I have no idea why any sensible person would buy the Herald,Sunday or weekday. What a destruction of what was once an internationally hugely respected organ
Sunday National first class again.

The Scottish unionists are destroying their own union. I always point out to anyone who will listen the fact that they don’t ever stick up for Scotland in the slightest down in Westminster. They get paid to put the boot into us and never fail to do so given the opportunity. That’s been the reality for over 300 years since the first lot of Scottish mp’s sold us out. It seems to be in their blood. They won’t ever change either.
It’s amazing that so many people still don’t realise that Westminster keeps almost half of Scotlands taxes which funds many a job in England. Most people don’t even know the strength of Scotlands exports and how Westminster dodgy accounting somehow says the three small celtic nations are responsible for the majority of the deficit in the UK. These are the things if people are made aware of will educate us and dispel the too poor, too wee arguments we’re bombarded with all the time.
Let’s point out Westminsters desperation to hold onto Scotland while brexit we are told will be fine and good for the country (England).

Cubby 11.17pm. Well it’s what you and geeo both do, jump on someone who mentions the e*****h , and accuse them of being anti, or a troll, or a britnat.

Bobp

Well Bobp have you been away looking for some facts to justify your offensive and stupid comment. I’ll help you out – you won’t find anything to justify what you said. Best just apologise now and bring the matter to a close. Take it as a learning experience. Don’t go around posting false accusations on Wings.

Alternatively, you can embarrass yourself further by going down the route of posting more false offensive comments and personal abuse.

Your choice.

Bobp

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that you are the one who made false and insulting claims about me in the first instance and then repeated it. I have been civil towards you but once again you post an offensive comment. You have nothing to back up your false claims Bobp. You choose a personal insult to try and disguise the fact that you made a false claim and are not big enough to admit it and apologise.

You have made your choice. Personal abuse instead of personal integrity. No respect from me Bobp in future.