The ersatz referendum
For a party which insists the last thing it wants is a second independence referendum, it’s rather odd that the Tories are doing everything in their power to turn next month’s council elections into exactly that.
Still, let’s do our bit to help them out.
This site is actually of the rather old-fashioned view that council elections should be decided on council issues, and that the best thing to do is vote for the candidates and parties with the best policies and track records in your local area. (As ever, it’s not our place to make suggestions as to who that might be. Vote for whoever you want.)
However, all three Unionist parties appear to want to make the elections a plebiscite on the constitution instead, and so are campaigning almost entirely on independence, even though councillors can neither instigate nor prevent a referendum. In fact, in the last month we’ve barely seen a leaflet or broadcast or interview from any of them that mentions anything but independence.
So how should Yes supporters vote in such a scenario? The STV voting system is impenetrably complicated to explain, but incredibly simple to vote in: you rank every candidate on the paper in order of preference – 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.
We should note that you’re not obliged to do so – you can simply mark a “1” beside your favourite candidate and leave it at that. But the short version is that if you do, you make it much more likely that Tories will get in and use the election of their councillors as “proof” that Scottish voters are opposed to independence, and as ammunition for Theresa May’s attempts to block a second referendum.
Numerous other sites have written articles in depth explaining exactly why that will be the effect. Read those if you want to fully understand the finer mechanics of it – we endorse all the blog posts linked in this paragraph. But the bottom line is the same in all of them, so we’re going to keep the message short:
RANK EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE, WITH ALL THE PRO-INDEPENDENCE ONES AT THE TOP, AND PUT THE TORY/TORIES LAST.
(If there are non-party candidates – confusingly called “independents” – standing, rank them according to their views where known. If you can’t find out anything about them, treat them with maximum suspicion and rank them as low as possible, above only the Tories. Many so-called “independents” are actually Labour and Tories in disguise.)
Still not quite sure? Well, the Tories already understand how the system works and are advising their supporters to do the exact same thing, except in the opposite order:
And that’s all you need to know. If the council election is going to be used as a proxy indyref and you want to win it, don’t leave any boxes blank. It’s that simple. Anyone who tells you otherwise – and rather alarmingly that includes some SNP campaign organisers – just doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
But, but, it makes sense. Must be a different Murdo Fraser
Tories Strategy is simply
Win and it’ll be “It is the will of the Scots that they don’t wan’t IndyRef2”.
Lose and it’ll be “It was cooncil elections and doesn’t mean a thing”.
So win win for them.
I mean in a really Indy Ref (which they are sh*tting themselves about) if they lose we’re away and then Little England will be truly F**ked.
I notice this little gem in the Holyrood Magazine: “… May said: “The EU referendum also exposed an underlying sense that people felt they have been ignored by politicians, at Westminster and Holyrood, for too long.”
She added: “That feeling is as strong in Scotland as it is anywhere else in the UK, and after nine years as the establishment party in Scotland, the SNP needs to accept its share of responsibility.””
Er… responsible for what, exactly? Being in charge of a country that voted 62:38 against Brexit? She’s either appallingly ignorant, or it’s the whole alternative facts / alternative universe thing again.
THIS!
Most importantly the ‘independents’ bit. If you don’t currently know what any are about, find out and if you’re still none the wiser on the day rank them as low as possible.
#votetillyouboak
Better put up a campaign called 1-2-3 on how to vote ‘Yes’ in May.
A simple message to get a powerful result.
Would annoy the hell out of the Yoons but would let people know exactly what to do.
?
Does that mean if we win the local elections we will have a Mandate for Independence?
Thanks for the heads up Stuart.
I suppose we should take it as a good sign that these Yoon careerists feel they have to disguise themselves in order to look palatable.
Show me a Yoon and I’ll show you a fly bastard.
Many so-called “independents” are actually Labour and Tories in disguise.)
That really stinks. Its hard to imagine a giant catastrofuck like Sir Wullie Young OBE and current owner of Aberdeen, actually losing his top council job for life, that job being destroying the once fine Silver City.
“the council election is going to be used as a proxy indyref ”
The 2012 council election had a 39.6% turnout. The 2014 IndyRef had a 84.6% turnout.
This election is going to be decided by getting the voters out.
If one side gets far more out than the other, they will be in a strong position to take seats.
The Tories are good at getting their 20-25% to the polls. Labour are in such a state many of their remaining voters will stay at home IMO.
The SNP MUST get their ~45% out and voting, especially in areas where the Tories are the main challengers.
So, apart from HOW you vote, it’s important that Indy supporters actually TURN UP to vote.
Fascinating that a Tory is canvassing for other parties and not only their own. Hints at desperation. The normal thing would be ‘Vote for us and never mind the rest’.
But not our Murdo.
It’s a pity the Tories don’t want to put a programme together for local government. It rather lets down their own supporters who when asked what the manifesto is for local government have only one answer – Don’t know.
So, Murdo is asking us to vote for a party that hasn’t told us what it’ll do if they were to win power in local elections. Odd.
Lest we forget….
WOS archive links for October 2013 now showing over on O/T.
Send the Unionists a message, get yer flags here:
link to ayemail.scot
I got one of those Tory leaflets through my door this morning and lo and behold, it was delivered by my next door neighbour who features on the leaflet as the Tory candidate.
I will take my time to put my cross in all the boxes, making sure that he goes into the last box.
The thing about rating Tories last is that your vote will affect the result if it is needed. If you leave it blank then it cannot affect the result so you may end up with a Tory instead of Labour (other parties are available) ae the other councillor.
The main problem is getting the numbers down in order. 1,2,3,4, etc seems so simple but there’s a wheen of ballots come in 1,2,3,4,4,5,6 etc where they can only count the 1,2 and 3
Got my PB today.
TBF my Labour chap has campaigned on local policiesand I am ranking him higher as a result. As said, the Tory flyer was only about independence so is ranked last. (Oh, SNP 1 of course)
Rev said:
“If there are non-party candidates – confusingly called “independents” – standing, rank them according to their views where known. If you can’t find out anything about them, treat them with maximum suspicion and rank them as low as possible, above only the Tories. Many so-called “independents” are actually Labour and Tories in disguise”.
So, so true.
Sean Murray Morton standing for Ward 6, Fochabers/Lhanbryde. Standing as an Independent (although doesn’t state this) after being suspended by SLab in Jan. Eight candidates and three seats.
Is he still a Labour party member even if suspended? Does anyone know how this works?
Concerning that some may vote for Independents thinking they are not politically motivated but are working for the good people in their constituency…they are being hoodwinked.
Bill McDermott says:
I will take my time to put my cross in all the boxes, making sure that he goes into the last box.
I know it’s Easter but it’s numbers not crosses, shurely.
Tony Curtis has let himself go a bit.
This is a handy reference site with a spreadsheet listing all candidates in every ward.
link to electionsscotland.info
Just checked my own ward (Perth & Kinross Ward 2), and the Tories are at it. A sitting councillor from another ward has been shifted to ours and listed as an Independent – so he is getting ranked last!
Check it out folks!
So teresa says use the ce to reject independence. So if unionist parties are rejected,will she admit that we do want independence?.No didn’t think so. Manipulative lying tory deviant scum.
I fully intend to rank all the candidates with the Tories last. However I’m struggling to find any info at all about one of the independents standing, if anyone has any info at all about Gordon Keane standing in the Glasgow Anderston, City and Yorkhill ward, can they please share it here. I will be ranking him but if he’s a good egg then I’d like to bump him up the list a wee bit.
So, in my ward, it will be;
SNP 1
Green 2
Libdem 3
Labour 4
Tories 5
Tories 6
Does anybody else agree, that it could be very useful for this story to stay at the top of the page until May 4th? Is such a thing possible?
@Jamie
Thanks for that link..
I notice Nicola’s Maw isn’t standing this time but Robin is standing in Irvine South the same ward as that wee nyaff O’Neill. I really hope O’Neill gets trashed but it will be difficult..
In my ward I have a Libertarian. I had a look at their website, dont like the look of them much and I’m suspicious. This vote till ye boak is really difficult. Distinctly queasy already at number 4 on the list here, but actual vomiting doesnt set in until the last one. Surely if I vote for 1-6 it doesnt make any difference if I leave the last one blank? Then I can still get through my life without ever having voted Tory, and I dont have to take a bucket with me to the polling station?
1 SNP
2 SNP
3 Green
4 Lib Dem
5 Libertarian
6 Labour
7 Tory
Sorry to seem dumb, but how do I find out who the candidates are in my constituency?
@Glamaig.
You can miss out the last vote, as it makes no difference.
I too have never voted Tory, and never will.
In my view the most important thing you can do is get to know who is standing in your own ward before the election.
If you can’t find out much about the Independents then there is information on them if they are incumbents on the council website regarding their financial interests.
For example, that is if they are directors of any businesses and what shares they might own and other groups they might belong to.
So I’d advise do your own research first, then vote until you boak.
I won’t be ranking the Tories last but then I have a UKIP candidate standing. And three Tories. And no Greens. Sigh.
This is the info I have been waiting for, thanks.
Now for the hard bit, explaining it to the wife. Lol.
Douglas says:
14 April, 2017 at 6:27 pm
Sorry to seem dumb, but how do I find out who the candidates are in my constituency?
No such thing as a dumb question! – there are many who have helped me with questions on this site.
I had to google ‘moray council local government candidates’ – just put your local council instead.
😀
Michty me, just checked my Ward (5 Ardrossan and Arran) got a real zoomer a Gordon Allison who’s standing on a No Referendum, maintain Union and Pro Brexit Ticket, I guess he goes above the Tory then 🙂 I have emailed the Independent to ask his views on constitution.
Delighted with this article, no more to say.
Well, it would be good if Labour voters could be perusaded to put the Tories last as well, because of the R Clause.
Talk about a bag of broken biscuits, here’s a wee mixed bag of lies, laughter and lunacy. From The Spectator (6 May 2016):
At long last, the Scottish Conservatives are back
link to archive.is
😀 😀 😀 😀
Lenny Hartley says:
14 April, 2017 at 6:41 pm
Michty me, just checked my Ward (5 Ardrossan and Arran) got a real zoomer a Gordon Allison who’s standing on a No Referendum, maintain Union and Pro Brexit Ticket, I guess he goes above the Tory then ? I have emailed the Independent to ask his views on constitution.
ah. you mean him?
link to forum.followfollow.com
Similar sorry tale, Alan Gordon Melville “Independent”, standing in Leith Walk. Saw him being less than impressive as a UKIP candidate at the general election hustings. No stated policies I can find. Here’s a link to his background.
link to heraldscotland.com
Douglas on 14 April, 2017 at 6:27 pm:
Douglas, see Jamie’s link in his post at 5:40pm.
😉
[…] Wings Over Scotland The ersatz referendum For a party which insists the last thing it wants is a second independence referendum, […]
Glamaig@6.21
Just posted mine, SNP 1&2,Indy 3&4, Lib Dum 5, Lab 6 left out the BAS*ARDS.
I cannot and never will vote for the scum of politics.
Well done Rev – that’s telling the doubters
VOTE ‘TILL U BOAK – fill in every box putting the nasties last
“However, all three Unionist parties appear to want to make the elections a plebiscite on the constitution instead, and so are campaigning almost entirely on independence, even though councillors can neither instigate nor prevent a referendum.”
In which case, whatever the number of councillors elected, the SNP percentage share of the vote must be maximised.
I don’t know how statistics are compiled, but an SNP total vote of more than 50% is the best response to the unionists.
@shiregirl
Hahaha that was superb, gave me a laugh anyway. There is a serious side to this though and that is KNOW YOUR CANDIDATES.
Sorry for shouting but it is important, electing halfwits like that is a big problem in Scotland. Make sure we get the vote out and throw these tubes out on their arse.
Dare I say “take back control”.
Tory leaflets in Hawick are only pushing 1 message, Vote Conservative & Stop another independence referendum. No mention of local services
Does anyone know anything about the FOUR independents in Forres – pro or anti Indy? Any suggestions on which order to put them in? (Below SNP and green of course).
Thanks!
The yoons appear to be shitting their selves
OK, I have got the message – I vote till I boak, and rank all eight canddates in my ward from one to eight.
Just one other wee query: where we have two Labour, or two Tories standing in one multi-member ward, should we not mess further with their party’s heads, by reversing their preferred voting order?
Thus, if the Labour Party suggests we put Jackie Baillie one and James Kelly 2, do we reverse the order?
Similarly, if the Tories suggest Jackson Carlaw on and Murdo Fraser two, do we reverse that order?
I use these names as examples, Mad Murdo would always go last if he was actually standing anywhere. Mind you, I doubt if he could even get himself elected to the cooncil in Larkhall, even if there were “List” cooncilors in Scotland.
Thepnr @ 1909
Crazy as a box of frogs.
Where do they find them? Nutters.
@Cadogan Enright
And well done you for the VOTE ‘TILL U BOAK meme. Seems to have caught on 🙂
“RANK EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE, WITH ALL THE PRO-INDEPENDENCE ONES AT THE TOP, AND PUT THE TORY/TORIES LAST.”
“And that’s all you need to know. If the council election is going to be used as a proxy indyref and you want to win it, don’t leave any boxes blank. It’s that simple.”
As always, the best and simplest pro-independence advice comes from WOS and its author.
No need for any more lengthy discussions on this site.
As I had posted on 4 April, 2017:
“Apart from the SNP, the only “pro independence” voice to be trusted 100% is WOS and its author.
Only follow the Rev. Stuart Campbell’s advice on how to vote in the local elections.”
Change the voting system.it is a disgrace. To FPTP. Why should voters have to vote for candidates/Parties they can’t stand. To get the candidate/Party they want. It is just appalling. Vote plastic Green they will collude with the unionists for Office and remuneration. Destroy the City Centre, waste £Billions and cut essential services. It is just disgusting.
Shire girl cheers, the Independent I was talking about is somebody else, , can’t imagine the ukip per getting many votes so will put him above the tory. As for the independent will see what my research brings up to see where he goes vis a vis labour.
Robert Louis,
“Does anybody else agree, that it could be very useful for this story to stay at the top of the page until May 4th? Is such a thing possible?”
Excellent idea.
panda paws,
“I won’t be ranking the Tories last but then I have a UKIP candidate standing. And three Tories. And no Greens. Sigh.”
I would put anyone including UKIP above the Tory candidate.
An isolated UKIP vote will hardly count for anything.
But every vote for a Tory is a toxic vote, boosting the most disgraceful and dishonest politician in Scotland.
The Tories must be completely defeated.
You’ve inspired me to have a look in my ward and there are two independents. A quick Google leads me to information that one of the independents used to stand for Labour. He was elected as an independent in 2012, too. I’m still trying to find information on the second independent candidate, but no luck so far.
A neighbouring ward has two independent candidates one of whom ran the local yes campaign (but quit the SNP amid claims of bullying) and her son – I’d take a chance on them.
And where would you rank a Solidarity candidate?
Vote until you boak
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
This explained it very well for me to understand, used it already to explain to other people. I am going vote till I boak.
It seems these britnats want many referendums on Scotland’s independence, at least until independence is achieved. Fine by me.
mumsyhugs says:
14 April, 2017 at 7:13pm
Does anyone know anything about the FOUR independents in Forres – pro or anti Indy? Any suggestions on which order to put them in? (Below SNP and green of course).
Hi 🙂
Hope this helps.
George Alexander –
link to stv.tv
Also, he was a previous Independent a few years ago and there were a few issues:
link to forres-gazette.co.uk
The others – Cresswell and Hamilton appear to do a fair bit for the community. Monaghan involved with local issues, (area forum, etc)
I’d stick my neck out and say the Independents are No. Only based on what I have read.
Fabio (green) is a good guy, by all accounts.
If there’s only one Tory and you can put them last, do so. It does not mean you are voting Tory, it means you are placing them last, giving them an “F”, saying anyone but the fecking tories.
I have changed my mind, from previously saying I’d never vote for any unionist parties, and will be voting SNP 1 & 2, Green 3rd, Lib Dem 4th, Lab 5 & 6 and Tory scum last and definitely least at 7.
If there are more than one tory, I would guess the thing to do would be to rank them the opposite way the local tories advise you to.
If there is only one SNP candidate people have then to vote for a bunch of useless unionists. It is beyond wrong. Never voted for them ever. There are millions of voters who do not know to rank the
troughers. It just stink to high heavens. It is corruption beyond belief. The electoral system must be changed. The people’s choice is unfairly made. The troughers can just come back again and again. Ruining the local/national economy. No wonder people have no faith in the political system. It is beyond disgusting. It is just gerrymandering.
Ist preference going in the bin, and 3rd rate rejects getting in. There is no responsibility. They can do what they like. Totally ignore the eldctorate. Can’t stand most of them.
Also, when ranking Indy candidates, place the No.1 candidates higher than the No.2 ones. You should, of course, do the OPPOSITE when ranking the unionists, ie put the weaker No.2 candidates above the stronger No.1s. After all, if you’re going to have to have a unionist councillor then surely it’s best to make sure they’re a weak,useless,stupid and/or inexperienced one.
Looking forward to the day when politics is removed from local councils to be replaced by qualified management employees instead of unqualified Labour piggies and Tory snorters all funding their lifestyles off the backs of taxpayers and motorist fines
Councils should be a place of business where things that need doing get done and if they’re not the boss gets sacked and replaced by somebody better
@Rev. Stuart Campbell
I’m glad you posted this article as I believe it can make a difference.
For me it’s quite simple, if you can’t get a majority SNP council in your area then the best you can do is try to make them the largest party and also have other Indy minded candidates elected that they could work with in order to form a council.
Labour are going to be hit very hard this coming May, Dugdale will probably resign but only if there is someone willing to take over as leader of the Scottish twig.
The Tories might do well since their blue rinse support will always vote. The SNP and Greens though if we get the vote out stand to do enormously well.
Local Scottish politics will be a completely different landscpe in weeks time and I hope that will bode well for when the next referendum comes along.
They thought we’ed get back in our box too, Ha! We have not yet begun to fight.
Lenny Hartley says:
14 April, 2017 at 7:32 pm
Shire girl cheers, the Independent I was talking about is somebody else, , can’t imagine the ukip per getting many votes so will put him above the tory. As for the independent will see what my research brings up to see where he goes vis a vis labour.
Hiya 🙂
No – I think this is the same guy. Was UKIP back in 2012 and Tory previous to this. Now Unionist/No ref raving loony party.
His political history will give you a laugh. God loves a trier.
link to abbup.org
Not just campaign organisers getting it wrong, Stewart McDonald MP actively telling folk on twitter *not* to rank anyone other than snp. He’s having it explained to him ?
Shiregirl @ 7.42
Thanks for that info 🙂
I know now the order to put them in – just two to swap round from my original thoughts on them!
I can tell you for sure, with personal experience, that ex-policeman, suspended Tory Councillor ‘Cass’ McCaskill is indeed a fuckwit of the first order (ask any policeperson who served with him), and, under normal circumstances would be hard-put to get picked in a school footy kick-about. He is the reason many Tory voters vote UKIP instead where possible.
What were the Party committee thinking?
Ah, success! That second independent in my ward supports independence (read through all his FB comments). I’ll be ranking him much higher than I thought I would.
FYI that’s
Peter George
(affiliated in some way or other with Labour)
and
Roy Mackie
who to be fair sounded like the kind of guy I would vote for even before I found that out. Left school at 15, became an engineer, heavily involved in the community council even without being elected. Wants party politics to stay out of council business in order to deliver what’s needed for local residents.
“Tory local councillors can stop ScotRef” … just one more lie. And quite a big one, even by Tory standards.
Odd thing is, it’s so transparently implausible, yet the expect voters to believe it.
Imagine how desperate you would have to be to base all your politics on lies!
Re: Heldon and Laich ward, Moray.
My provisional choice, for what it’s worth. I’ve put Cowe below the Libdem because he’s just another tory. Not sure about the two proper independents. If anyone can help…?
1. Amy PATIENCE (Scottish National Party)
2. James MACKESSACK-LEITCH (Scottish Greens)
3. Ryan John EDWARDS (Independent)
4. Dennis SLATER (Independent)
5. John MITCHELL (Scottish Liberal Democrats)
6. John COWE (Independent)
7. James ALLAN (Scottish Conservative and Unionist)
@Lenny Hartley 7:32 pm
John Hunter??, Is a very good Constituency Councillor,,Got into it over 10 years ago, over a local issue the rugby playing field?? Very community orientated and pays all his own expenses, I have never spoke to him , but folk I know have went to him and speak very highly of him
Shire girl, think we are at crossed purposes, I know about the zoomer ukip per it’s the independent John Hunter I don’t know about.
Probably a tory but have emailed him anyway.
@dakk says: 14 April, 2017 at 5:22 pm:
“Show me a Yoon and I’ll show you a fly bastard.”
Hey! Do not insult flies. Flies only give you the shits if they land on your food. Yoons give you the shits 24/7/365.
@shiregirl says: 14 April, 2017 at 5:36 pm
” … If there are non-party candidates – confusingly Sean Murray Morton standing for Ward 6, Fochabers/Lhanbryde. … Is he still a Labour party member even if suspended? Does anyone know how this works?”
It has been decades since I read the Labour Party Rule Book but it sticks in my mind they have a rule that expels them from the Labour Party if they join any other party.
@Lenny Hartley
Ah…got you 🙂
@wee folding bike says: 14 April, 2017 at 5:37 pm:
“Tony Curtis has let himself go a bit.”
Not muckle surprised, wee folding bike, He always was a ham actor but he died on September 29, 2010.
Puir auld gadgie maun hae hid the mauks crawlin oot o him lang syne.
Just checked the Glasgow Garscadden candidate? list
No fly Yoon chameleon independents on list fortunately
Did notice though the ‘Scottish’ Conservative and Unionist Party candidate is fae Giffnock ffs
Enough tae gie me the bile, never mind vote tae a’ boak right enough
I like the way Pete Wishart shows us how to vote on May 4th:
link to archive.is
So this has been pissing me off for two days now.
If the lot of you were going to drop a bombshell like this could you not have done it the day before the PV’s went out?
While I am pretty sure this argument is correct none of those promulgating it have bothered their arses to substantiate it with evidence. They’ve just asserted a position and expected the rest of us to just swallow that and move on.
If there is one thing that Wings has taught me it is not to trust anything that I read until I have thoroughly examined the evidence supporting it.
So, for the record:
In an STV election for X seats with N candidates.
If your candidate exceeds quota on first preferences only up to your Xth preference will ever be counted and for that to happen all of your lower preferences will have been elected.
Win.
Worst case scenario is when no candidate exceeds quota at any stage and your first preference candidate gets eliminated first. In which case your (N-X)th preference might be counted but every higher preference must have already been eliminated for that to occur. There is no possibility of you accidentally electing your (N-X)th preference over a higher preference because they have all been eliminated already.
So, yes, I’m pretty sure you can safely rank all the candidates without accidentally contributing to the election of someone you didn’t want.
But it’s taken me several hours to reassure myself of that and I’ve got a bloody headache now!
We discussed this on here months ago and the conclusion was rank pro-indy and nobody else.
That’s the consensus position that we’ve been using for months. I’m infuriated that so many in the movement have dropped trou and left this steaming turd on the lawn the VERY DAY THE CAMPAIGN ENDED.
PV’s are out, people are voting.
If you wanted to discuss changing strategy the time to do it was six weeks ago.
The gains to be made with this new strategy compared to the old one pale into insignificance compared to the losses that could result by seeding this sort of confusion the day before voting started.
I’ve spent months getting to the position where the activists in my branch have had the STV presentation for dummies and at least have a working knowledge of the system and a basic idea of voting tactics and why they work.
All the idiots that were all over social media yesterday claiming that voters aren’t stupid and will easily understand and grasp these ideas clearly haven’t spent any time teaching politically motivated activists how this works.
What voters need is clear simple messaging that all the sources they trust agree upon.
If you want to make sure the Tories and Labour get the drubbing they deserve then spend your energy persuading Yes voters to get out and vote on May 4th.
“PV’s are out, people are voting.”
That’s why we did it on the day PV ballots started arriving. It’s fresh in people’s minds, and we did it in a simple, concise form with links available to detailed explanations.
I have 7 candidates standing in my ward (Strathmartine Dundee)
John Alexander SNP
Ian Borthwick Independent
Daniel Coleman Lib Dem (Focus Team)
Stuart Hunter SNP
Kevin Keenan Labour
Robert Lindsay Conservative
1&2 is easy although I’m not sure what order I need to put the 2 SNP Candidates
No7 Is also easy (Conservative)
Not sure about the others, well that’s not strictly true I know Sinead very well personally she is a customer of mine and is a very decent person but I don’t know her politics regarding independence.
Ian Borthwick is ex labour and a long standing councilor in Dundee from what I can find out but again I’m not sure where he stands on independence
So the way I see it now
(1) John Alexander SNP
(2) Stuart Hunter SNP
(3) Sinead Daily Dundee Against Cuts
(4) Ian Borthwick Independent
(5) Daniel Coleman Lib Dem (Focus Team)
(6) Kevin Keenan Labour
(7) Robert Lindsay Tory Bastard
Any help would be appreciated
Graeme
Support Scotref..
link to ref.scot
@ Robert Peffers 8.44
‘Hey,do not insult flies’
No insult intended
Agreed,the far larger blight on our planet is the Yoon paracite
We need to echo Carob hand Enright message .
Vote till you boke
Stone free cheers re John hunter , he will go fourth after the two Snp and colin the fish ssp then the ukip zoomer, the Blis and then the Tory. The UKIP zoomer gets ahead of the Blis guy as he will probably get what he deserves – nada.
Talk about vote until you boak, I’m about boak ing thinking about the last three on my list!
My apologies, Cardohan auto spell intervenes again.
@ Socrates at 7.23
Much as I like the idea of messing with Labour’s heads, they have probably split the wards where they are standing 2 candidates, the same way the SNP have.
In my ward, some of the areas have been asked to rank SNPA ahead of SNPB; the remaining areas have been asked to do it the other way round. This is supposed to optimize the first preferences (and give each of them all the other’s second preferences) so that they both get elected.
Do Labour have the wit to do the same? I haven’t yet had any material from them; they might be deterred by my rural location and/or the Yes stickers on car and house. It’s also complicated by one of the Lab incumbents being deselected and standing as an Independent (25 years ago he was a Tory) – I still haven’t decided if I can bear to vote for him.
Labour don’t have enough candidates to regain control of the council; they only have one per ward outwith the old C&DV. I assume they are hoping for a coalition with the Tories/anyone else who’ll have them. But maybe they just don’t have the people.
For those asking for candidate info Jamie Arriere has posted this link upthread : –
link to electionsscotland.info
Many thank Jamie.
@Graeme
link to twitter.com
Don’t ask me. But 30% of Lib Dem voters voted YES even way back then.
Surely some Labour-into-independent changelings, have actually left the Labour party, some.
Some are entrenched, against reason itself.
@shiregirl says: 14 April, 2017 at 6:48 pm:
” … ah. you mean him?”
link to forum.followfollow.com
Now that sounds very much like this guy is one of, “The Wee arra peeppol”.
When I was a wee pre-schoolboy I though they were a tribe of midget North American Indians. I blame the Saturday afternoon bughouse matinee for that one.
@Graeme
link to anewelyriahigh.org
Voted against Bowes who was SNP, and he development. looks like a dick to me.
If we hold our noses while putting a seven for the Tories, we’ll be alright.
caz m wrote on 14 April, 2017 at 9:20 pm:
“I like the way Pete Wishart shows us how to vote on May 4th:”
link to archive.is
😀
Robert Peffers says:
14 April, 2017 at 10:04 pm
Yes, he appears to have a certain following!
The things I have learned this evening…especially what WATP is an abbreviation off. How clueless am I?! 😀 😀
I give up.
Not about freedom for Scotland, just about autocorrelation.
Tomorrow’s National front page:
“The racism scandal engulfing the Scottish Tories … with at least SEVEN council candidates now in the spotlight”
@Iain says: 14 April, 2017 at 9:49 pm:
“My apologies, Cardohan auto spell intervenes again.”
It usually isn’t the spell checker that causes the problems but the text predictor. Turn the bloody thing off.
Tomorrow’s “National” twitter pages:
link to twitter.com
North Lanarkshire doesn’t half attract the bams.
A kipper standing in most Wards, and the newly whelped Independent Alliance North Lanarkshire.
There is an Independent on my ballot, and like others, seems to have no history on line. He does have a company, and as per many company directors you check via Company House, a thread starts unravelling towards a number of other companies.
I lost interest, cos he will be down my ranking in any case.
O/T Regarding The National’s front page to-morrow
The National?Verified account @ScotNational 19m19 minutes ago
Tomorrow’s front page: The racism scandal engulfing the Scottish Tories … with at least SEVEN council candidates now in the spotlight
Following a gushing article in praise of Ruth Davidson, I wrote to local press on this issue (including the Western Isles candidate threatening violence against Nicola Sturgeon .. but not naming him) and surprise, surprise it was not published.
This is what we are up against as The National will be hidden in supermarkets and the BBC and so called neutral newspapers will not mention it.
I see Pete Wishart has upset the Tories with his “Good Guy”, “Wank” homage to Chewin’ the Fat.
Silly Peter, you should have known Tories only see jokes by appointment – when they appoint them as candidates, appoint them to quangos or to the House of Lords.
Probably already been mentioned, but The National, starting tomorrow is doing a whole thing about the elections, and candidates, over 17 days. Tomorrow, Scotgoespop, James Kelly.
Have noticed people asking how to look up their candidates. Local council website, something everyone should know and have access to. I am sure I just ranked the top 2 last time, not this time though.
Sharing info about this as much as poss, and will try to get out and take The National from under the daily tory rags for the next 17 days! All week been down with the lurgi here, bah, need to be recovered to leaflet etc.
Glamaig@6.21
Here in Edin central there is a ‘Libertarian’ candidate, wishy washy, saying pro indy? Looked them up, very dubious, would not trust them at all.
Socrates McSporran@10.37
Ha ha, I saw that and thought it was great! The yoons have no sense of humour at all do they, how sad. Look at them back in 2014, with better together woman, how freaking dullsville. The YES side were witty and funny, as well as respectful. Such a contrast.
If you have to explain this to someone who is too fixated on FPTP, try this:
You have X-number of sweets to eat. Some are chocolate, some aniseed, some chewy, some boiled, some have soft centres, others contain liquorice. You have to rank them. That’s it. Doesn’t mean you’re expressing any approval for stuff you don’t like.
In Rev Stu’s case, he might perhaps have to ‘place’ coffee in a list of 10 available drinks. It’s possible for him to do so, even if wild horses wouldn’t get him to ever take a drop of it. Although he hates coffee, he’d surely rank it above a hemlock smoothie, eh?
Iain, 10.25,
When I got to that 4th. comment I laughed out loud. So thanks!
@shiregirl says: 14 April, 2017 at 10:18 pm:
” … The things I have learned this evening…especially what WATP is an abbreviation off. How clueless am I?! “
Oh! I wouldn’t say clueless – I’d say you’ve been very, very lucky not to have suffered as some other Wingers have.
My parents both came from a long line of mixed Christian sectarian marriages.
We kids were enrolled in what was either the best or the nearest school to home. I was thus a pupil in either a non-denominational school, (were we lived that meant very Protestant plus Wee Free), or the RC school.
In either case our parents gave us the option of opting out of religious education. As opting out usually meant getting extra lessons from a teacher who would rather have been in the Staff room drinking coffee – we took RE.
Mind you I never in either case heard any teacher attempt to use sectarianism. Couldn’t say the same for the pupils. These tended to arrive in their first primary class already dyed in the wool sectarian bigots. It was not the schools that bred bigots – it was the homes.
Now the thing was that in the RC schools we were treated as, “Proddies”, and in the non-dom schools we were treated as, “Cafflicks”. We kids all grew up with a total disregard for religion but a great disgust at sectarianism, bigotry and racism.
In my own ward, 1 and 2 are easy but I’ll have to peruse any advice via leaflet as to what order to put them in.
3 will be the “Dundee Against Cuts TUSC” candidate, coz I know him as an active Yesser.
The current 3 councillors are 2 SNP and 1 Labour. I feel ‘in meh wattir’ that the Labour candidate should be placed last in my list, to try to remove a Labour presence in the ward. So 4 and 5 will probably be the Lib-Dems, followed by the Tory at 6, then, at 7, Labour.
A wee personal point…
After the last full council election, I emailed the three successful candidates, offering congratulations on their election. The 2 SNP councillors replied; the Labour winner didn’t.
Interesting ditching of toxic brands in North Lanarkshire where McAveety’s sister in law is standing as an Independent under her own name. Suppose Nicola does it anyhow, a good old Scottish custom!
O/T lol
Just been checking out Rev’s twitter & came across the petition to get rid of HR. Had a wee look at the comments section – usual crap – but then…. this:
Cringey McProudscot MA (Cantab)
Westminster, United Kingdom
8 hrs ago
I’m signing because, like most scots of my proud heritage, prefer, and believe, that decisions are best made for us somewhere else. I believe that Mrs maykip and #rapeclauseruth have the best interest of Scottish families at heart. I sincerely believe that we should be subsumed as a region into greater England, and that we should be treated like second class citizens, Yes, our MPs should be roundly mocked whenever they try to put Scottish interests first.
Its better to live 1000 days as a sheep than one day as a free sheep!! as my confused housekeeper used to say before we sacked her after 50 years of faithful service on our Scottish estate.
Wee chortle before bed, braw!
Re. Pete Wishart using BBC approved humour.
@Yoons
Fannybawz!
Wow. Just took a reckie at N. Sturgeons twitter about the upcoming elections. Jeez, the comments, wall to wall ignorant nasty britnattery. Full of how the SNP are cutting budgets and services, messing up the economy of Scotland, lots butchers aprons.
Just absolute bullshit about cuts being aim/fault of Scotgov. SNPgov not perfect but nothing about WM cuts, nothing at all. Says it all. These people are living in a different Scotland, or maybe they are not living in Scotland. Jeez.
Complete list of candidates for Scottish Borders Council.
link to scotborders.gov.uk
3 Councillors to be elected from my ward – Ward 8 Kelso & District. My intended order of preference in vote-til-ye-boak is:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Red Tory gopher
6 – Fib Dumb gopher
7 – No Surrender Tory Rape Clauser*
8 – No Surrender Tory Rape Clauser*
*I’m still fine tuning the numerical order of these candidates.
dakk @9.15
Please vote for Rosa Salih if she is in your ward. She is, as far as we know, the first refugee to stand for election.
She had a standing ovation at the SNP Conference before she said a word.
In the afternoon I saw her in the foyer where she was signing autographs. When she had finished I asked her if I could hug her, she looked surprised but then I told her I had been teaching refugees in the East end of Glasgow while she was at Drumchapel High School. She flung her arms around me and told me much she loved the teachers for what we had done for refugees.
I was truly humbled. Still brings a tear to my eye.
PS She was one of the ‘Glasgow Girls’ who changed government policy and a play was written about them.
They ensured families with children under 12 ( I think ) would not be taken on dawn raids.
IanB wrote: “..he’d surely rank it above a hemlock smoothie, eh?”
😀 LMAO!
Or how about an Aucuba Aperitif?
Artyhetty
I’m sure a lot of that ignorance will be willful denial of truth. It must be real torment for those who are fully committed to a British identity, torn between shoring up a crumbling belief system or listening to their inner self-preservation instinct, if they have one.
The Union is shattered beyond repair but the faith of true believer keeps the corp animated. Quite gruesome, frankly.
Ah now i see why the yoons are all talking about wanks i thought it was just one of those strange yoon cult things at Easter.
I think Pete might have hit a bit close to the bone with that one brilliant.
Its outrageous that a MP should crack jokes with the plebs does he not know he should be fiddling expenses and robbing them just not British old chap.
Well we can guess that the dead tree scribblers will be pitching tents as they scribble furiously about the SNP bad tomorrow.
Read all about the keech we made up last night while having a wank.
RE: The the Pete Wishart stooshie
Tories on faux stroomph klaxon!
Seriously? After the evidence presented on the last thread…
Does anyone truly give a shit what Tories find offensive? They thrive on being offensive FFS! Any party that conceives, legislates for and or supports the rape clause, benefits sanctioning, the cutting of housing benefits for teens, the cutting of bereavement benefits and wholeheartedly supports the very worst form of brexit really and I mean REALLY doesn’t understand the meaning of offensive behaviour.
File their ‘outrage’ under bin.
“Over 50,000 disabled drivers have had their car taken away by the authorities since new disability benefits laws were introduced in 2013. “
… more chipping away at the welfare state. The Tories won’t be happy until it’s been totally destroyed and the UK becomes a ‘deil tak the hindmaist’ society.
link to archive.is
In the world of the Yoons there are no disabled. None at all only chancers scrounging off the state. They are to be despised and stripped of any income.
That’s their view of the world.
So, here we are back in the looking glass world of Scottish journalism. The SNP MP passes a quip online using the good guy, good guy, w**k thing from chewin the fat (which is actually very funny and well known), and the papers descend into their oft rehearsed faux ‘outrage’.
Meanwhile Tory candidates who ACTUALLY talked of putting a bag over the head of the First Minister and kidnapping her, are not mentioned.
Aye, so-called ‘scottish’ journalists, dancing London’s jig, to the detriment of the very country their own children will grow up in.
The SNP MP at the start of my comment, above, was Pete Wishart.
Over 50,000 disabled drivers have their cars taken away, eh?
Then they give us this:
Jeeez, what next, a return to the devaluing of the female of the species? Benefits for male children only? Coming from a Tory near you, soon! Stop laughing at the back, i wouldn’t put it past them.
Now might be a good time to start investing in pre Victorian lines of clothing. Could be the latest get rich quick scheme but shusht, keep it to yourselves. London’s burning! 😉
God knows where the independents in Falkirk Upper Braes have come from. Tried to Google them to no effect. They’ll just have to be the two before Labour and the Tory.
In the Edinburgh North and Leith area the “Independent” candidate Alan Melville has stood in several elections as UKIP. Be very wary of any so called “independent” candidate.
Time passes people forget. The PFI rip off of the Scottish taxpayer is incorrectly allotted to New Labour. It is a fact that Labour and Gordon Brown embraced PFI and disgracefully plundered Scotland’s wealth. But it was John Major who first established a PFI team in the Scottish Office. Indeed the first ever PFI in the UK was the Falkirk (Education)contract. Many made £ millions from the Scottish taxpayer. They should be publicly exposed, castigated and banished from public office
link to caltonjock.com
galamcennalath @ 17:24:
This is the absolute bottom line.
While we’ve rightly been getting deep into the optimal general ranking strategy to use, and with which I basically firmly agree (albeit with some very minor quibbles), we mustn’t forget this fundamental message.
These aren’t normal local elections. They should be, as Stu says, but they aren’t, and for exactly the reason he gives: the Unionists are making these a referendum about a referendum.
The FibDems are doing it fairly quietly (apart from Rennie, who seems to be trying to out-Carmichael Carmichael), BLiS at half-cock (as per usual), and the Rude Gal Bunch with the volume turned up to 11. All of them cynically trying to take advantage of the usual low turnout in local elections, hoping that this will give their diligent voters extra advantage.
So it’s absolutely crucial: if you want to keep your hopes of independence alive, you have to register to vote (if you’re not already, you can still squeak in if you get a move on and do it online NOW), you have to put in that vote, and you have to motivate everybody you know to do the same. This is one you personally can not afford to miss. This one is for way bigger stakes now than just deciding who organises the bin collections, folks.
Watch out for company owner\company employee candidates standing as Independents. Council contracts are notoriously overpriced. Beware of nepotism.
How many court cases are outstanding?
If Cruella & her wee Scottie dug’s want to play silly buggers…
Would a 50%+1 SNP majority over the unionist parties, on 1st & 2nd preference constitute a mandate for UDI then ?
At every hustings, it would be only fair, given the yoon parties rabid insistence on making Indy2 an issue, that all candidates are asked their position. How did they vote in 2014, and 2016 ?
Quite rightly, the SNP & Greens are playing the local game, but that doesn’t mean everyone else can’t breenge in on the ‘independent’s’ game.
@Still Positive 11.09
‘Please vote for Rosa Salih if she is in your ward. She is, as far as we know, the first refugee to stand for election?’
Heartwarming personal insight. Thanks
I shall bear that in mind as I walk into the booth ejecting bile at the thought of would be British Nationalist Knightswood cooncilor Tariq Parvez fae Giffnock
Thus, if the Labour Party suggests we put Jackie Baillie one and James Kelly 2, do we reverse the order?
Doesn’t matter. Your fractional transfers or whatever almost certainly won’t cascade as far down as Labour before one of the Labour candidates is already elected. If there are two of them they must be sure one will get in. Your vote is really trying to boost whichever one is still not elected against a remaining Tory. You can’t really influence which Labour guy gets in before your vote has transferred that far.
Also, when ranking Indy candidates, place the No.1 candidates higher than the No.2 ones. You should, of course, do the OPPOSITE when ranking the unionists, ie put the weaker No.2 candidates above the stronger No.1s
It doesn’t really work like that. All parties will split their recommendations so that different parts of the ward are asked to put different candidates first from their party. This is to avoid one of the candidates getting so few first votes that he’s elminated before he has a chance to benefit from fractional transfers from the one that’s elected first.
So you can’t really tell which candidate is either party’s actual main hope just by looking at who they ask you to vote for. Do follow the SNP leaflet’s advice about the SNP candidates’ ranking because it’s best to fall in with the strategic plan. It doesn’t matter which order you rank Tories or Labour because as I said above it’s almost certain that, if they have two candidates, one will already be elected before your transfer gets that far.
Your main aim is to boost other candidates above the Tories in the final stages of the count, when the last seat is up for grabs. For that, it doesn’t matter how you order candidates from unionist parties that are fielding more than one.
Spoiled for choice in Grangemouth….!!
6 candidates for 3 seats.
Balfour David
Scottish National Party (SNP)
Milne Margaret-Anne
Scottish National Party (SNP)
McLaughlin Judith (Scottish Green Party)
Spears Robert (Independent)
Black Allyson (Labour Party)
Bundy James (TORY)
………..
Robert Speirs was in opposition as an independent in 2012 with the SNP, and is a good guy.
3 Seats up for grabs and 4 strong independence minded candidates.
Takes the stress out of voting in grangemouth at least…!
WHY DO THE TORIES, LABOUR AND LIBDEMS CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT INDEPENDENCE ???
As a motivator, fear is the most effective by far.
Scottish Independence is what unionists fear most.
Of all the things the Unionists could say to stir up fear in Unionist voters, nothing comes close to the word Independence. Nothing will motivate Unionist voters more to come out and vote.
The Unionist parties will never stop talking about Independence for that reason.
O/T
Well done everyone for signing and spreading the petition to scrap the R-Clause and the family cap. It’s just shy of 12,000 signatures as I type this. Which means it should now get a response from the UK gov, it would have to get 100,000 signatures to attain a ‘debate’ in the HoC.
Obviously it would be fantastic for Allison and everyone working their hearts out to get this into a debate level of engagement wi the Tories, there’s has to surely be a will here to push this as much as possible for them to have a fighting chance?
The higher the numbers on this petition the greater the publicity the more likely the backlash. Let’s at least keep circulating this as much as possible, send to family and friends in the rest of the UK etc to keep it alive and kicking…
link to petition.parliament.uk
Complete list of candidates for Scottish Borders Council:
link to scotborders.gov.uk
3 out of 8 to be selected for my ward – Ward 8 Kelso & District.
The following is my voting intentions on the vote-tae-ye-boak:
1 – Alison Lamond (SNP)
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent
4 – Independent
5 – Red Tory
6 – Amber Tory
7 – Blue Tory
8 – Blue Tory
Thepnr . just have to say, you have my support i love your tuppence worth , infact its worth more. well in you. read all yer posts, keep going yer one of wings stalwarts. 😉
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-1 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 8 to be chosen for Ward-1 Tweeddale West:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Red Tory
6 – Amber Tory
7 – Blue Tory
8 – Blue Tory
*Research who your “Independent” candidates are and prioritise any ‘Yes’ supporter above any ‘No’ supporter.
As for the 2 Blue Tories, it doesn’t really matter, see Morag’s post above at 1:12am as to why it doesn’t matter.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-2 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 5 to be chosen for Ward-2 Tweeddale East:
1 – SNP*
2 – SNP*
3 – Independent
4 – Amber Tory
5 – Blue Tory
*Follow SNP’ advice on how to number their candidates 1 or 2.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-3 of Scottish Borders Council. 4 out of 8 to be chosen for Ward-3 Galashiels & District:
1 – SNP*
2 – SNP*
3 – Independent**
4 – Independent**
5 – Independent**
6 – Red Tory
7 – Amber Tory
8 – Blue Tory
*Follow SNP’ advice on how to number their candidates 1 or 2.
**Research your “Independent” candidates and put any ‘Yes’ supporters above any ‘No’ supporter. Be alert to those with previous links to Unionist parties.
So what we saying.. the 4th May 2017 vote is gonna be our ‘dress rehearsal?’
As Scotland prepares to enter and join the world stage as iScotland…
0 centuries, 0 decades, 18 days anna bit remaining…
Rock Alba.
Ok that’s weird..
Alba was replaced with Caesar!
Fair doo’s.
Make it so.
@Cactus –
Hear ye brother.
There’s only so many words this place can handle…
(And there’s a very limited number of Ian B’s.)
🙂
I have an independent standing in my ward by the name Tom Muirhead, looking for info on him, he tried to get in on the list last year’s HE and 2011, he’s tried on the council elections before too, I cannot find his affiliations but ah did find this from 2011, same address same guy, sorry it won’t tiny URL or archive:
link to indymediascotland.org
Whit is this guy meant tae be?
Anyway here’s my ballot order: 4 councillors from list of 7
SNP Kenny McLean
SNP Kaukab Stewart
Green Martin Bartos
Libdem Carole Ford
Labour Martin Rhodes
Independent Tom Muirhead
Tory Tony Curtis
(Ah might reverse the bottom two at the time)
Not sure of order snp 1 and 2 yet. Who do I contact locally to find out about this?
Aweright Stoker ~
Batter back in with the lists dude.
I’m just hanging out.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-4 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 9 to be chosen for Ward-4 Selkirkshire:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Independent*
6 – Red Tory
7 – Amber Tory
8 – Blue Tory**
9 – Blue Tory**
*Research your “Independent” candidates and prioritise ‘Yes’ supporters over ‘No’ supporters, if possible.
**It does not matter how you prioritise these two clowns (8 or 9), see Morag’s post above at 1:12am to understand why.
Is there a propensity for Tories to live outside the ward they are contesting…would be interesting to know if this is widespread? Check yer lists, just to get a general view if this is the case.
Aye mon the IB’s bro b he he 😉
Gonna try another combo, see what happens, try…
Hail Alba!
and Rock Caesar! too
Aweright Cactus!
I’d post all of Scotland’s lists if i had the time.
Talking of which, it’ll soon be time for Cairnstoon.
Tic Toc
😉
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-5 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 7 to be chosen for Ward-5 Leaderdale & Melrose:
1 – SNP
2 – Independent*
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Amber Tory
6 – Blue Tory**
7 – Blue Tory**
*Research your “Independent” candidates and prioritise ‘Yes’ supporters above ‘No’ supporters, if possible.
**Does not matter which way round you number these 2, see Morag’s post at 1:12am for explanation.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-6 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 6 to be chosen for Ward-6 Mid Berwickshire:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Red Tory
4 – Amber Tory
5 – Blue Tory*
6 – Blue Tory*
*Place these 2 in any order you see fit (5 or 6).
Aye, Cairnstoon imminent (unless it’s a surprise Saturday soapbox?)
Yeah, Chris’ll be signing it with a ’17 again soon.
Maybe see ye in the morning Hamish.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-7 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 7 to be chosen for Ward-7 East Berwickshire:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent
4 – Red Tory
5 – Amber Tory
6 – Blue Tory*
7 – Blue Tory*
*Place these two muppets in any order you like (6 or 7).
In case you missed it last week, it’s available on catch-up.
Previously on Cairnstoon..
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Scotland.
X.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-9 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 7 to be chosen for Ward-9 Jedburgh & District:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Red Tory
6 – Blue Tory*
7 – Blue Tory*
*Research your “Independent” candidates and prioritise ‘Yes’ supporter over ‘No’ supporter, if possible.
**Place these 2 anyway round you see fit (6 or 7), see Morag’s post at 1:12am for explanation.
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-9 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 7 to be chosen for Ward-9 Jedburgh & District:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Red Tory
6 – Blue Tory**
7 – Blue Tory**
*Research your “Independent” candidates and prioritise ‘Yes’ supporter over ‘No’ supporter, if possible.
**Place these 2 anyway round you see fit (6 or 7), see Morag’s post at 1:12am for explanation.
Disregard my post at 3:27am, tiredness beginning to set in.
Correct version posted at 3:28am.
__________
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-10 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 6 to be chosen for Ward-10 Hawick & Denholm:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent
4 – Red Tory
5 – Amber Tory
6 – Blue Tory
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-11 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 4 to be chosen for Ward-11 Hawick & Hermitage:
1 – SNP
2 – Independent*
3 – Independent*
4 – Blue Tory
*Research your “Independent” candidates and prioritise any ‘Yes’ supporter above any ‘No’ supporter, if possible. It will also be beneficial to try and contact your “Independent” candidates and ask them where they stand on the constitutional question.
Be weary of anyone avoiding the issue with claims of focusing on “local issues” because local authorities need to deal with governments, and that includes seeking finance and other forms of local investment.
We need people at Council level who will work well with Edinburgh and who are not focused on taking instruction from London masters.
__________
Well, that concludes the voting from the Scottish Borders region.
Goodnight Vienna! 😉
The SNP… ARE… Scotland’s, National Party.
1st base – Scotland voted our national party into Westminster.
2nd base – Scotland voted our national party into Holyrood.
3rd base – Scotland voted to remain in the European Union.
Home base – Scotland to vote for our national party throughout the councils?
And the next play is gonna get hit out of the park!
I was canvased by the SNP -Friday night. They were unable to enlighten me as to their preference as to how I used my preference votes. This in my view is an oversight.
In Heldon & Laich there are 7 candidates standing for 4 seats but only one SNP. The Tory I out and out detest. John Cowe and Dennis Salter who are Independents who are also closet Yoon Tories as far as I am concerned,the closet Kipper/Tory Tuke isn’t standing again.
I know nothing about the other Independent standing and I was hoping the SNP canvassers could have advised me on him but couldn’t. I utterly detest the Fib Dooms as well as I consider them orange effin Tories.
This electoral system is appalling. It is plain to see how appalling administrations are allowed to carrying on ruining the Scottish economy, when useless Unionists/green cretins – 3rd rare rejects can just get in again, and again and again. A lifetime of waste. With no responsibility,no concern for the local economy and no possibility of being held to account. It is just appalling. No wonder the ekdctorate loses all sense of faith in the system and do not turn out to vote. It is deliberste gerrymandering of the highest violate of any sense of democratic choice. If the system us not changed, The local/natiobal economy will continue to suffer. With a corrupt alliance dominating the political landscape. 1st preference votes being thrown in the bin, 5th rate chancers getting in. To destroy the local/national economy. Totally against the majority wishes and the public interest. No wonder people do not turn out to vote, when their vote doesn’t count. Or having to vote for candidates/Parties they can’t stand.
Another Unionist fail. In their own interest. Not in the interest of the general public.
DrewDog. Greedy capitalists. Have had £Millions of public investment. Investment Grants etc. They will never pay a fair price for anything. A month ago they were complaining they could not get public land for less than it was worth, Deprive the community of the true price, Thry are greedy individuals. Who do not want to put anything back. They also try to undercut local tradesmen doing a fair job on price. While charging exorbitant profits for themselves.
I looked at the btl comments about the Pete Wishart story, in The Scotsman.
I was sorely tempted to go down them adding “wanker” or “good guy” according to whether the comments were pro or anti-Wishart. But, I have a life, and you can only type “wanker” so many times.
Had to laugh at the way, although they printed the tweet in its entirity, in the text of the story, it was: “w**ker” – propriety still rules in “Red” Morningside it seems.
I have a good reason to rank the unionists in our ward, the annoying, prattish FibDem guy might get back in.
Even though we didn’t elect him last time (everyone found out how annoying and prattish he was) he still distributes his ‘newsletters’ with pictures of him crouched ominously by a not absolutely perfect piece of tarmac or a street name sign that looks a little tired. So someone has the money for that.
So, the Slabber will get ranked above this prat. BTW the TUSC support independence, I checked them out at the Holyrood election. So they will get ranked before the Slabber at the bottom of the Yes group (we have a Green standing too, Yay!).
Be alive to the smaller Yes parties and make sure to put them above the Yoons.
Thanks for the advice, I will now be “voting till I boak” in my council ward!
Problem is, I haven’t had one single election leaflet put through my door from any of the other candidates, other than the SNP, so I don’t know who they are or what they’ve got to say for themselves. Maybe it’s something to do with the big Yes sign which is still in my front garden? Hahahaha!
I’ve contacted one of my prospective SNP councillors to ask if there’s a Hustings planned where candidates will be setting out their case, but nothing doing either!
No idea if there’s anyone in Dundee standing as a UKIP candidate, but interested to know whether they should rank above or below Tory on the ballot paper, as both are equally poisonous!
Here you go, Heather.
link to eveningtelegraph.co.uk
I normally only fill in the boxes for the SNP candidates and leave the rest empty.
This time I will act differently and fill in all the boxes on the ballot paper as there are 10 candidates standing in ward 22 in which I live, 3 SNP 2 lab, 1 green 2 independents 1 Tory and 1 Libdem.
I doubt I will see anything of the Tories and Libdems campaigning locally as they are not active or have any activists in this ward.
Given that we have candidates standing effectively without a manifesto apart from “Naw”, are we facing the possibility of councillors taking control of a local authority and having to develop policies from scratch – or “Naw” coalitions who then find they cannot agree on one ? In short, is there any possibility of a council or councils unable to fulfil their functions ?
Anyone know Rojan Subraman, Independent in Ward9 Edinburgh?
Pro-indy?
Pro-EU?
Using Vote Till You Boak and need to rate him.
Cheers!
I am standing is Cunninghame North (Ward 4)Stevenston/Saltcoats as an Independent.. If you want to know why just ask
galamcennalath said at 11:31 pm last night:-
“Over 50,000 disabled drivers have had their car taken away by the authorities since new disability benefits laws were introduced in 2013. “
… more chipping away at the welfare state. The Tories won’t be happy until it’s been totally destroyed and the UK becomes a ‘deil tak the hindmaist’ society.”
Argue yourself out of that one Ruth Davidson!!
An uncaring Party. This week we saw the real face of Toryism in Scotland.
These cruel measures are handed down courtesy of David Mundell MP Tory Secretary of State for Scotland MP for DUMFRIESSHIRE CLYDESDALE AND TWEEDDALE IN THE NO 10 TORY CABINET,and Ruth Davidson MSP for EDINBURGH CENTRAL,Leader of the Scottish Tory Party.
link to archive.is
Stoker said:
Here’s a suggested voting plan for Ward-1 of Scottish Borders Council. 3 out of 8 to be chosen for Ward-1 Tweeddale West:
1 – SNP
2 – Scottish Green Party
3 – Independent*
4 – Independent*
5 – Red Tory
6 – Amber Tory
7 – Blue Tory
8 – Blue Tory
*Research who your “Independent” candidates are and prioritise any ‘Yes’ supporter above any ‘No’ supporter.
As for the 2 Blue Tories, it doesn’t really matter, see Morag’s post above at 1:12am as to why it doesn’t matter.
This is actually the ward where I live and where I will be voting. Is this advice directed at me? Here are the candidates.
link to candidates.democracyclub.org.uk
No UKIP, which saves having to decide whether to put them above or below the Tories. No Borders Party, which saves having to decide if they’re closet Tories. But actually even if there had been such candidates they wouldn’t have had a chance so it wouldn’t be worth worrying about.
Two independents. Tommy Davidson lives in the same village as I do and is well known. He was Whipman a couple of years ago. I don’t know anything about his politics but I’d be inclined to rank him slightly higher on the assumption that he’d work for our village in particular. But he isn’t going to get elected so it’s not worth worrying about.
I have no idea who Michael Needham is, but he isn’t going to get elected so he’s not worth worrying about.
I would put Labour below the LibDems because I hate them like poison. I come from Lanarkshire and Labour councillors there are notorious for corruption and nepotism. But she isn’t going to get elected so it’s not worth worrying about.
You see where we’re going with this? You don’t even have to think too hard about half the cansidates because no matter where you rank them you know they aren’t going to get in. The same goes for the Green, I’m just going to put her as #2 out of general principles.
So we’re down to SNP, two Tories and a LibDem. Obviously I’m SNP so I put SNP at #1. I also put the Tories at 7 and 8 for obvious reasons. I’ll put Eric Small at 7 because he also comes from my village and he’s not a real Tory, he only joined them because he wanted to stand for the council and realised he had a better chance of getting in if he had a party identity. But it won’t matter which way round I put them because one of them will have got a seat before my transfers get that far.
The only meaningful thing I can do, after putting SNP at #1, is rank the LibDem above the Tories. Just where I put him doesn’t matter a lot because nobody else has a realistic chance. So in that sense Stoker’s suggested plan is absolutely fine.
I will do it like this.
1. SNP, Anderson
2. Green, Hamilton
3. LibDem, Chapman
4. Independent, Davidson
5. Independent Needham
6. Labour, Reid
7. Conservative, Small
8. Conservative, Anderson
However, I could easily put the LibDem at 4 or 5 and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference.
In practice what will happen is this. Heather Anderson is likely to be the first candidate to secure a seat, as the Conservative voters are splitting their vote between two candidates. I understand some of the Tories are quite angry that two candidates are standing as they believe it will disadvantage them. But they’ll still get at least one of them in.
Once Heather is safely elected, which will be either as first or second, whatever fraction of my vote is still in play as surplus from Heather’s election will cascade down to the LibDem (in practice, because the Green will be eliminated quite early, as will the Independents). It will stick there until the final round which will be a slug-fest between the remaining (unelected) Tory and the LibDem, and I want the LibDem to get that seat, not any Tory even if he did fix my crumbling plaster for me.
But if I did it Stoker’s way, the effect would be exactly the same. So knowing your ward intimately produces a more nuanced ranking, but Stoker’s rule-of-thumb quick-and-dirty guide actually does the business just as well in this case.
I have checked out the list of candidates for my council ward in good old Dumfries and Galloway. We have :
1 Tory
1 Lib Dem
2 Labour
1 Independent
1 Libertarian Party
1 SNP
Apart from the SNP candidate, Henry McLelland, the rest are all Unionist in nature and none of them support independence.
I understand the idea behind #votetillyouboak but honestly I can not see any way that I can vote for any of these candidates other than oor ‘enry.
Morag (1:33pm) you wrote:
“This is actually the ward where I live and where I will be voting. Is this advice directed at me?”
Not specifically Morag, just a general guide for all possible Wingers in the Scottish Borders Council area, but your input is as appreciated and valued as anyone elses if not more so. Thank you!
I’m really struggling with this idea of ‘vote-tae-ye-boak’ because i’ve never ever gave a vote to a Unionist, of any description or at any level, in my entire life and i’m truly finding it very hard to come to terms with.
In the end i suppose needs must will win the day….hopefully!
Arbroath1320 on 15 April, 2017 at 2:31 pm:
You have my deepest and sincerest heartfelt sympathies and understanding. It’s a stinking undemocratic system, designed to reward failure. I never have and never will like it. Until it gets changed we just have to work with what we’ve got. It’s enough to drive anyone to the drink.
@Big Phil
Thanks for that vote of confidence, I know I can be my own worst enemy but my heart is in the right place.
That place is an Independent Scotland.
@Arbroath1320
You have 9 Conservatives in your council, 7 Independents, 2 Borders County Independents whatever they are, 2 Councillors by Party: None – Independent Councillor whatever they are too.
Finally 6 Lib Dems and SNP.
Without looking at any of the candidates in your ward as I’ve no idea what that ward is I’d be inclined after voting for ALL pro-indy candidates to give my vote to Labour as they have no chance of making up a council in the borders.
In your area, Tories and the Lib Dems last in my view, they are the SNP’s main opponents. Try and get the SNP as the largest party this time. And good luck by the way, I know it’s tough down there in the Borders.
Thanks for your sympathy Stoker … think I need every ounce I can get these days. 🙂
The problem I have Thepnr is that the SNP candidate is the only indy supporting candidate all the rest are anti independence.
As for Labour I’m inclined to avoid giving them anything,just like LD’s, because as one of their candidates said to friend the other day “I’m not bothered about #RapeClause because it doesn’t affect me” Well if he can stand and say that sort of shite and expect to win any votes he is sadly mistaken!
@ K1
You might be interested in this:
link to twitter.com
I’ve been through all his more recent tweets and can’t work out what he eventually did. My memory was that (before the tweet I’ve linked, so he could have changed his mind) he campaigned for Green No.
He’s definitely better than the multi-coloured Tories, and maybe his record as a councillor trumps his view on independence (it’s obviously fair enough to actually vote based on people’s chances of being good councillors! If it weren’t for Theresa, that’s probably what we should be basing it on.) He’s pretty hostile to the SNP, though.
As a more general point to bear in mind – not all Greens are Yes. Most of them are, though, regardless of what some people on here keep saying.
There are people here still referring to giving a low preference to unionist candidates as “voting for” them.
Low preferences aren’t votes for. They’re “bad marks”. If you think of the high ranks (low numbers) as “good marks”, you can realise that the low ranks (high numbers) are bad marks.
If you leave someone blank it isn’t saying much about what you think about them. You might not have noticed them on the ballot, or maybe not recognised the name. On the other hand, a number like 7 or 8 or 9 actively and emphatically says “no way!” The biggest number possible says “over my dead body!”
Do it.
For me it’s SNP then Green then it all depends on what the independents are.
The dilemma is that once you venture into Yoon territory you need to account for what happens if your vote actually managed to get them over the quota. At that point votes get transferred according to how everyone voted rather than just you.
LDs have a slight bias towards the Conservatives. Although if enough people follow an anti Tory stand that might change. A safer bet would be Labour. Especially given we might not want to kill them of entirely.
One thing I hadn’t thought of before is that I’m actually picking a team so should at least nominate at least as many candidates as there are seats.
As to the SNP not recommending any other party that might simply be a general rule of thumb adopted by all parties. Even the Greens only punted SNP where they weren’t standing against them.
Also if the SNP don’t get a majority they’ll need to try to form a coalition. In which case really pissing of potential partners by recommending others isn’t a great start
“RANK EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE, WITH ALL THE PRO-INDEPENDENCE ONES AT THE TOP, AND PUT THE TORY/TORIES LAST.” How many wards are lucky enough to have more than one pro independence candidate standing?
Arbroath1320 – Ditto my ward 1SNP 2 Labour 1 Tory 1 Non Alingned fighting for 3 seats.
Thepnr – Dumfries and Galloway isn’t the Borders – we at least have 1 SNP MP here – but, yes, it’s tough this side too.
K1 Kenny McLean, should he be elected, is the SNP group’s provisional finance chief. He has been working on a budget for the city for months. We need him in. Mr. Muirhead, no idea, but seems a bit far-out. The Green Bartos is violently anti-independence.
K1 says:
15 April, 2017 at 2:32 am
I have an independent standing in my ward by the name Tom Muirhead, looking for info on him, he tried to get in on the list last year’s HE and 2011, he’s tried on the council elections before too, I cannot find his affiliations but ah did find this from 2011, same address same guy, sorry it won’t tiny URL or archive:
link to indymediascotland.org
Whit is this guy meant tae be?
Anyway here’s my ballot order: 4 councillors from list of 7
SNP Kenny McLean
SNP Kaukab Stewart
Green Martin Bartos
Libdem Carole Ford
Labour Martin Rhodes
Independent Tom Muirhead
Tory Tony Curtis
(Ah might reverse the bottom two at the time)
Not sure of order snp 1 and 2 yet. Who do I contact locally to find out about this?
Thanks for that Crazycat…now hesitant about placing him 3rd under SNP, if he’s anti SNP then as a councillor I’m not sure I would want him next in line for the remaining excess votes, having said that Carole Ford is just as anti SNP and very much on the ‘anti referendum’ band wagon same as red and blue Tories?
The reality is we can’t do much about any of them in this regard, when they are all singing from the same hymn sheet at these elections?
I’m certainly not prepared to move Labour or that weird independent guy up the list, it is what it is unfortunately…those two under SNP are interchangeable so I’ll just suggest that others in my ward stick to my original rankings:
SNP Kenny McLean
SNP Kaukab Stewart
Green Martin Bartos
Libdem Carole Ford
Labour Martin Rhodes
Independent Tom Muirhead
Tory Tony Curtis
At least the ‘broader’ Green Party in Scotland support the proposition, which is more than the Libdems…so will maintain third place in ma ward (terrible need tae justify this tae masel’ noo) 🙁
Anybody know anything about Gerry Creechan or Gordon Keane, anderston/city/yorkhill ward, they are both standing as independents.
I found a little about Creechan:
link to mobile.twitter.com
But can find nothing about Keane?
My ward in paisley has 2 snp members this is the order i go with on may 4th
1 snp
2 snp
3 greens
4 tusc
5 independents
6 labour
7 lib dems
8 conservatives
@K1
Pretty good chance he’s the Gordon Keane who posts very pro-Indy on the Herald. It looks like he’s standing as an independent candidate from this comment 3 days ago on the Herald:
“Not beast pleased at this. Either they have left (?) the Labour Party, and are actual Independents, or they are still in the Labour Party, but pretending not to be. Which is it?
My main complaint, is for all those genuine Independents. who are standing for election… I don’t want folks to think we are all wannabe Labourites…. At least one of us, is trying to undo Labour!! “
Smashing stuff yesindyref2, thanks so much he’s going intae 4th after SNP on suggested ranking now unless you think he might be better placed before the Greens?
@K1
Personal choice I think. The Greens are staunch allies as a party when it comes to Indy, but Gordon Keane is one of the best posters on the Herald and deserves a shout. There’s others like, I think, Iain Lawson who stand as independents though largely SNP. I’d have to as well, as like them I’m a bit of a maverick and wouldn’t want to be a politician of any party that would have me as a politician!
I have…
1. SNP
2. SNP
3. SNP
4. Green
5. Lib Dem
6. Unionist Independent
7. Tory
8. Labour
9. Labour
Tory’s have no chance where I am, so looking to limit Labour…the Independent will be lucky to get a handful of votes.
Of the 10 Candidates standing in the 4 Councillor ward 22 of Buckhaven Methil and the and Wemyss villages.
I will be voting SNP 1,2 and 3, 4th Green, one of the independents whom I know I haven’t decided whether to put him 5th or sixth, I know nothing of the other independent,
The libdem I will put 7th, then Lab 8th and 9th and the Tory last
Nicola Ross – Independent in the Forth Ward for Edinburgh – stood as a Conservative for the council in 2012.
Damm it I wish I had read that pamphlet-if it was explained there about this? . Anyhow in my haste I just put 1 and 2 for SNP then posted the damm thing back last week.
Oh well least the main two were on there.
The Duke of having nothing to do with Edinburgh, has announced that he is retiring from public engagements at the age of 96.
It seems that he has consented to fall in line with the new Tory Age for retirement, soon to be announced in their manifesto.
I find it strange that no one from the UK Media Monkeys
have broken down the meaning of the Tory Triple Lock for our Pensioners?
As best I know, the UK still has the 4th worst old age pension of all the 28 E.U. Nations.
With wee countries like Ireland, Finland, Denmark, Norway etc, that are too small to survive, just like Scotland, all have better pensions, standard of living and are generally happier with their lot.
Great Britain my F****** AR**!
I believe they get around £140 per week after a small increase. The Triple Lock was to have guaranteed our Pensioners at least a 2.5% annual increase, to compensate for many years of neglect. I get this to add up to £3.50 per week, however, if a Pensioner has a small private pension, they will be taxed on that £3.50, to take it well below £3 net. Is a £2 something per week increase for retired soldier, nurses, policemen, civil servants, etc going to push the Tories into bankruptcy?
Is this supposedly Great Britain with the 4th worst pension going to break another election promise to those who have contributed for 50 years?
I think you will find that the answer is YES!
If the NHS that the Tories are determined to destroy, can keep you alive, you will get a miserable pension too, but after 54 years of contributions. (Aged 70)