The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


The enemy of their enemy

Posted on February 06, 2015 by

A quick rhetorical question, readers: if, as Labour endlessly claim, the Tories want the SNP to win seats in Scotland in order to stop Ed Miliband being PM, why are most of the Scottish columnists in the right-wing press calling on Scots to vote Labour?

tactical

Alan Cochrane, the Telegraph:

“The most direct way of stopping the Nats’ advance is for Labour to recover its confidence and re-connect with its traditional heartlands.”

Fraser Nelson, the Spectator:

“I’d rather spend a lifetime in a Labour-run Britain than a day in a fractured, diminished, disunited kingdom – and this is what this election now threatens.”

Effie Deans, ThinkScotland:

“Some people think it is strange to suggest that Conservatives should vote for Labour or vice versa. I don’t think so. Of course they want different UK governments, but they equally and above all want to defend Scotland’s constitutional status as a part of the UK.

Why not therefore help Labour and at the same time hinder the SNP? Better a Labour MP than one who wants to break up our country.”

Allan Massie, the Mail On Sunday:

“There is talk in Scotland of Labour, the Tories and Liberal Democrats doing a deal to keep Salmond out, or at least encouraging voters to back the candidate most likely to beat the SNP.

James Forsyth, the Spectator:

“Great Britain is far bigger, and far more important, than party politics.”

James Kirkup, the Telegraph:

“Tories quietly urging the SNP on should be careful what they wish for. Sometimes, your enemy’s enemy is your enemy too.”

James Chapman, Daily Mail:

“Labour strategists are desperately hoping that talking up the prospect of another Tory-led government will persuade some of their former voters to come home. They also believe that some of the 400,000 voters who backed the Conservatives in 2010 might be prepared to vote tactically to stop the SNP.

Facebook is already alive with Unionist tactical-voting pages, which we’re not going to assist by linking here. But as the polls continue to stubbornly refuse to show a Jim Murphy bounce for Labour, the right-wing establishment is getting increasingly nervous and backing Labour more and more explicitly.

Almost as many Scots voted Conservative and Lib Dem in 2010 (878,000) as voted Labour  (1.03m). If deployed efficiently against the SNP (just 491,000 five years ago) they could make a substantial difference to the outcome of this May’s election. That alone should serve as a warning to the Nats and their activists that however good the polls are now, they can take nothing for granted.

In the meantime, we’ll be using this page to keep track of the growing calls from Tory commentators and activists, implied or explicit, to put party loyalties aside and back Labour in the name of the Union. If you spot any, let us know via the usual channels.

Because when push comes to shove, it’s pretty clear who’s on who’s side.

Print Friendly

    3 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 06 02 15 14:42

      The enemy of their enemy - Speymouth

    2. 06 02 15 15:48

      The enemy of their enemy | Politics Scotland | ...

    3. 06 02 15 18:21

      The Great Divide | thesairfecht

    240 to “The enemy of their enemy”

    1. Dan Huil says:

      Referendum Mk II. Complete with scare stories and unionist media bias.

    2. Grouse Beater says:

      Protecting people is secondary to protecting party and power.

    3. Andrew Walker says:

      Exactly what I have been picking up on recently.

      Unfortunately for the unionists their vote WILL be split, and with substantial labour and libdem voter moves to SNP we WILL get a large number of SNP MPs.

      The question is how man. Expect the state broadcaster to start adding its weight shoring up the right wing press.

    4. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Perhaps Labour Northern Branch should pay heid and think on for the future…

      “Many men are loved by their enemies, and hated by their friends, and are the friends of their enemies, and the enemies of their friends”.

    5. Training Day says:

      For the Proud Scots, anything is preferable to Scotland exercising the normal rights of self-determination.

    6. Grendel says:

      Certainly where I live in Airdrie, this election will be pitched as The Referendum: Round 2. Despite North Lanarkshire voting Yes, there are some strong Orange/Loyalist/Unionist strongholds that voted No, and much of Airdrie falls into that criteria. For all the talk of 50 seats and Airdrie being a possible win, the simple fact is it will be a Labour hold. This despite the fact we have arguable one of Scotlands worst performing, and locally derided MPs in Pamela Nash.

    7. DAvid Anderson says:

      Which just strengthens the validity of the assertion that there is no difference between the two because these right-wing commentators know fine well that Labour will do nothing to arrest the inequality that the Tories have accelerated on the back of the convenient excuse that is the banking crisis (we mess up and you pay through the nose you subserviant little taxpayers and do not expect us to ask big business to pay because we won’t, they can continue to avoid paying. It is a mark of their desperation at keeping the status quo intact that they so blatantly lay bare the reality that is the morphing of Labour and Conservative into ‘The one big Establishment party’ and we shall see if the two will share a platform again on a UK-wide basis come election time if the SNP do as well as we all hope they will.

    8. R-type Grunt says:

      Good article.

      As I’ve been saying ad nauseum for the best part of two years not – You’re either Scottish or you’re British. It was ever thus. Now we’re getting to the nitty-gritty.

    9. tartanfever says:

      On paper, voting Tory or Labour is much of a muchness, they’re broadly the same party – pro-austerity, pro-trident, anti-welfare and, in my estimation, pro-privatisation of the NHS. The only clear difference may be over an EU referendum.

      The question seems to be whether the die-hard Labour support decide to educate themselves on what their party actually stands for or continue the ‘head in the sand’ approach.

      Of course, it’s hard to break free from a decades old myth about Labour thats so consistently upheld in the pages of our newspapers and TV screens.

    10. r esquierdo says:

      The reason is that right wing people in Scotland prefer Labour to keep the SNP down in Scotland but want The Conservatives to control England and be in power in Westminster .
      The rise of minor parties is a political threat to the Archaic political system at Westminster and threatens the Establishment and the way they keep the rich , rich and the poor poor. The current SNP policy is to threaten the tories that they are about to have a pact at westminster with Labour.Labour meanwhile are afraid that they may need to rely on the SNP to form a government at Westminster.Both of the big parties who are at the beck and call of the City are shitting themselves.

    11. Thepnr says:

      It is only natural that the right wing press would urge people to vote for Labour who are in reality another right wing party.

      The press arm of the establishment doesn’t care who sits in the HoC as long as it is an establishment party.

    12. Iron Man says:

      Tin hats on, it’s only gonna get worse. They must be really scared of the SNP and the awakened Scottish electorate.

    13. carthannas says:

      Very informative as usual Stu. I don’t suppose that it’s a surprise that unionists will stick together but that doesn’t make it any less sickening. The die is really cast as far as the Labour Party is concerned. Truly red Tories.

    14. Macca73 says:

      The TV debates cannot come soon enough Rev. It appears that the BBC and ITV are just waiting for that one oppertunity to have either one of the Westminster parties to talk over or try to quieten Nicola Sturgeon down with a little “quip” about them not being in power which actually could do us all a massive favour.

      Us Scots don’t do well with being told to sit in the corner and shut up they didn’t learn last September .. I can see this happening and it will only backfire on them.

      As OUR First Minister said .. BRING IT ON!

    15. One_Scot says:

      The vote you cast in May will either be a vote for Scotland or a vote for Westminster, it’s as simple as that.

    16. Dorothy Devine says:

      What a bunch of slimy , spineless, ignorant morons.

      Nelson , he of the fractured vowels , really is utterly ridiculous.

      Who would have thought that journalists would become so mired in spin and their own self importance that even the most devout readers appear to have given up on newspapers and dismissive of the views expressed?

    17. Grouse Beater says:

      The British establishment regards the SNP one step back from insurgents.

      The democratic process is of little concern when it comes to banishing the SNP back into the hills.

      Westminster and its craven supporters make it a key goal of example, to ‘extirpate that despicable sept.’

    18. steveasaneilean says:

      Westminster party politics knows no shame. Do they really think 1.6 million of us are going to sit in a corner and shut up?

    19. Brian Powell says:

      It would be on the assumption that they only need to do it once.

      They thought that in September.

    20. Harry Shanks says:

      The interesting one for me is Effie Deans – whom I had down as merely a Unionist Twitter uber-troll – seems theres more to it than that.

    21. Jim says:

      Two cheeks of the same arse voting to save each others skin.
      Let’s hope come the election; that the SNP royaly roger the rings of those rascally, rapacious, rapscallions.

    22. Big Jock says:

      This is all beginning to sound like that last days of a colony. They are combining together to stop Scotland. The language is to keep Scotland in the UK at all costs, even votes. At least it’s honest. They want to run Scotland they are telling us that. It’s up to us the people to say no we are taking our nation back.

      If anyone votes Labour in Scotland. They are consenting to imperial rule over our nation. The truth is we have always been a colony. When the Jocks stayed in their place everything was fine. Now the Jocks are revolting they are panicking!

    23. Edulis says:

      It is clear that mendacity is at the heart of the Unionist case going into this election. I got a heavily edited letter published in the ‘National’ this morning which took out all my specific references to Jim Murphy and Jackie Ballie’s incapacity to tell the truth, given their main focus, which is to get one over on the SNP.

      But lo and behold Jenny Marra has just gone and performed the same feat in Pitlochry at the Big Debate on Radio Scotland, when she stated that the “Biggest party gets to form the Government at Westminster”. She was roundly shouted down for that inaccuracy, which tells me that we have an educated elecorate out there, but Gordon Brewer, of course, didn’t pick up on this piece of chicanery so there was no further discussion.

    24. Finnz says:

      It Makes a mockery of the various Unionist party membership rules that prohibit members from supporting or calling on others to support a party other than their own.

      Such hate cannot be healthy..

    25. alexicon says:

      We could leaflet each constituent telling voters that voting for the unionist parties is a vote for a London based political party.
      At the same time we could let the labour voters know how much their MP claimed in expenses last year and what nasty things they’ve been up to.

      Time we took direct action by producing our own leaflets and let the SNP put out the tame leaflets.

    26. Cuilean says:

      Better Together said the YES movement should ‘get over it’ and ‘move on’. This confirms the Scottish unionists parties care nothing for the people of Scotland but only for their cosy Westminster mutual support bubble.

    27. Luigi says:

      Edulis says:

      6 February, 2015 at 1:25 pm

      It is clear that mendacity is at the heart of the Unionist case going into this election. I got a heavily edited letter published in the ‘National’ this morning which took out all my specific references to Jim Murphy and Jackie Ballie’s incapacity to tell the truth, given their main focus, which is to get one over on the SNP.

      But lo and behold Jenny Marra has just gone and performed the same feat in Pitlochry at the Big Debate on Radio Scotland, when she stated that the “Biggest party gets to form the Government at Westminster”. She was roundly shouted down for that inaccuracy, which tells me that we have an educated elecorate out there, but Gordon Brewer, of course, didn’t pick up on this piece of chicanery so there was no further discussion.

      Whether by accident or design, Gordon Brewer certainly missed a brilliant opportunity to nail this little chestnut. He really should have encouraged a debate on whether or not the largest party always forms the government in the UK. The people were screaming for it (literally). Perhaps John Swinney could have been a little more street-wise, and picked up on it later, before he answered another question. It’s a shame it was left to the audience to express their disproval. I guess the BBC just didn’t want it discussed in detail right now.

    28. Chris says:

      So if you Vote SNP you are a Nat, what if you believe in everything apart from Independence.

      If there was an Indy Ref again, there is nothing stopping you voting SNP but against Indy.

      Labour are confirmed liars, as proved over and over. If we have to live in the union then the best we can do is send people to Westminster who have only Scotland’s interests at heart.

    29. big_al says:

      Deans: Why not therefore help Labour and at the same time hinder the SNP? Better a Labour MP than one who wants to break up our country.

      WTF is wrong with these people?

      Know your place Scotland. You will not run your own affairs, you will be beholden to westminster for ever and ever.

    30. MajorBloodnok says:

      To answer the rhetorical question (yes, I know), the Tories perceive clearly that if Labour lose big in Scotland then the representatives of the British Establishment, the very agents of the divide and rule tactics that imperialists always use their colonies, will be swept away.

      Without that convenient means of internal control of the country, Westminster will lose its grip on Scotland and that will be the end of the Union sooner rather than later. The thing that could accelerate that process is if/when the Tories and Labour come together to form a coalition government to keep the Nationalists out. With nationalist parties leading the opposition, the Union would effectively end right there.

    31. Clootie says:

      Better a Red Tory than NO Tory?

      It proves what we have all known for sometime. Labour in Scotland is just a puppet of Westminster.

    32. Democracy Reborn says:

      But Stu, Stu…. you’ve got it wrong. Why would Tory or Lib Dem Unionists vote Labour? In the words of a certain Jim Murphy MP : “I am not a Unionist”.

    33. jimnarlene says:

      @ grouse beater.
      They regard the SNP “as” insurgents.

    34. Heidstaethefire says:

      Just when we think it can’t get any better, it does. This deserves to be as widely publicised as possible, because points up the desperation of the establishment and clarifies what the debate is really about.

    35. handclapping says:

      Its not politics, its the economy, stupid.

      “The [UK Trade] deficit widened to £34.8bn in 2014, the largest since 2010 when it stood at £37.1bn.” FT today

      They need us.

    36. BrianW says:

      huh, and here’s me thinking I voted for an MP with who’s policies strike a chord with me and to represent me in Westminster..

      Well, silly old me for thinking that they give a hoot about me, my views, my struggles, my politics..

      There’s only one thing that counts and that is THEM!

      …oh and the BBC (can’t forget to get my cheap dig at them..lol)

    37. Why don’t the Unionist parties just merge in Scotland and get it over with? The Better Together Party will presumably do better than either Labour, the Tories or LibDems will ever be able to. Are they afraid their traditional supporters will desert them? Or wouldn’t they know which party to support in Westminster?

    38. msean says:

      Reading those extracts,it sounds as if Labour in Scotland is a Tory front,has there been a takeover or something? Any Labour voters should be wondering why Tories favour Labour EVER,unless they don’t fear Labour anymore for some reason.

    39. Marie clark says:

      What the hell is wrong with these people. I was under the impression that we were heading for a General Election. At the moment it feels as if we are having referendum take 2.

      You lot won, ( or you thought you did ), get over it, move on.

      Bunch of lying, scheming, cheating numpties. They must reckon that we have the attention span of a goldfish, it was only last September after all. A mere five months ago. It,s sickening the desperation of these clowns.

      As someone else on here said, it will either be a vote for Scotland, or a vote for Westminster. Simples.

    40. manandboy says:

      Another busted myth – that the Tories & Labour are ‘enemies’,
      when in fact they sleep in the same bed.
      They just climb in from different sides,
      but after that, it’s all about protecting the Union!

      Let’s just check their CV’s –

      Both are Unionist,
      neo-Liberal,
      career driven,
      greed driven,
      money grabbing,
      cheap spivs,
      who put more effort into paedophile protection
      than child protection
      while pretending to be servants of the public
      and representatives of their constituents.

      There is likely to be found less criminality
      in the current population of Barlinnie,
      than among the 1000 or so residents of the palace of Westminster.

    41. G H Graham says:

      This is turning out to be a replay of the British Nationalist assault upon the Scottish independence referendum.

      With the help of the Establishment & the State Broadcaster of British Propaganda (SBBP) otherwise known as the BBC, the chattering classes in London are going to throw every tactic at the Scottish electorate to convince them that, ANY party, no matter how dysfunctional, incompetent or indeed disingenuous, is preferable to the SNP.

      That the SNP are reflecting a democratic demand from Scotland is neither here nor there. The British Establishment’s status quo MUST be maintained at ANY cost.

    42. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T so early, well sort of anyway. 😉

      I’ve just received an e-mail from that lovely woman Harriet Harman addressed to … erm … a certain Gordon Brown! She had a few questions to ask … erm … Gordon which he has … erm … answered including what he was prepared to do to help and when. Of course he had to leave a phone number so Labour HQ could contact him so he … erm … did … 01592 263792! 😛

      I just find it funny that wee Harriet would possibly think that I was Gordon Brown … can’t possibly think where she would get THAT idea from! 😀

    43. Snode1965 says:

      Hey Grendel, why don’t you come down the town center tomorrow at 11am. You can join us folks who will be leafleting and speaking to Airdrieonians, hoping to convince them to vote for a positive change! Or are you just another concern Troll?

    44. Robert Kerr says:

      @handclapping.

      More from the Telegraph on the deficit.

      “Much of the rise in the goods deficit was driven by an increase in oil imports, as producers and consumers looked to benefit from a global slump in the price of the commodity. There was a particularly large jump in oil imports from Norway in December.”

      Low oil prices bad for UK? Shurely some mistake?

    45. Luigi says:

      Low oil prices bad for UK? Shurely some mistake?

      Aye, it’s volatile stuff, especially when you are so dependent on it.

    46. heedtracker says:

      Tory boy journos at the BBC etc might not care as long as the SNP don’t get any new MP’s in Westminster but its going to hard for a Scottish Tory voter to vote Slab and get Milliband and Murphy’s shower of red tories. Oh wait…

      Plate spinning time more like for BBC vote Slab Scotland at least.

    47. wingman 2020 says:

      Originally posted before the referendum

      “Milliband told his MPs and supporters ‘that the most important thing over everything else, was to keep the UK together’. What? Over Ukraine? ISIS? The next GE? Holding of UKIP? Exiting the EU?

      So, think about this. Although Cameron and Clegg didn’t exactly say it, these three ‘leaders’ believe that there is NOTHING more important than keeping the UK together?. They are not worried about borders, or families becoming foreigners. They don’t care about the Currency Union. They are not even worried about Trident as much as their reason for rushing to Scotland today. That can only mean one thing.

      Believe me when I tell you that they will say and promise anything to get a NO vote. (Regardless of Hague’s ‘reminder’ in the House of Commons yesterday that new powers were not promised or guaranteed until the house passed them.)”

      The same urgency exists today with the GE. The only thing that these guys believe matters, is keeping the UK together.

      If anyone thinks there are not Westminster x-party discussions on this, they are deluded.

    48. KennyG says:

      So what they’re basically telling us then, is that they believe in democracy, unless that democratic process results in a large number of SNP MPs. In which case we’re prepared to lie, cheat and frighten your granny.

      Those champions of democracy, look what they’ve been reduced to. What a sad sad day it is when you have to check a Facebook page to see who you’re voting for. Pathetic.

    49. galamcennalath says:

      We are up against opposition who believes that institutions are more important than people.

      Some of them are Tory, some Labour, some not elected, many in the MSM, many more faceless elite. Collectively they have one huge thing in common – they look after themselves, their cliques, and their power structure usually to the exclusion of the greater good and the public at large.

      United in the common cause of thwarting democracy, they are dangerous!

    50. Diane says:

      Seems the “grand coalition” has already been formed before the vote has even been held.

    51. manandboy says:

      All that time at Eton and Oxbridge and the like,
      to emerge just tribal animals
      living by the need for self-preservation.

      Forget the posh accents and the white bow ties,
      we’ll soon be in the trenches
      if not the gutter.

      These people have form in putting down natives.

    52. arthur thomson says:

      @ R-type Grunt Yes I agree, that is the bottom line in terms of leaving the union and I am a Scot not a Brit. But the GE is not about leaving the Union, it is about finding ways to make Scotland a better place for our people. It is about us engaging constructively and intelligently with UK politics to defeat the warmongers, poverty makers and anti-democratic elements within the UK who damage the lives of our people. That is the message we need to get across to the common five eighths of the Scottish electorate. That I think is exactly what the SNP is trying to do and we need to support them in that.

    53. think again says:

      So they want us to believe the GE is not like the Referendum then proceed to fight it like it is.

      Confused? You will be after this weeks exciting episode of S***

      @ Lesley-Anne, that reminds me I have an email address kept especially for this, I said they could find me at Pacific Quay if they needed help, must check and see if Harriet has been in touch.

    54. Macart says:

      What more evidence is required that the establishment are terrified of the SNP forming the bulk of Scotland’s representation to Westminster. The right (Labour) and the further right (Conservatives) are cacking themselves at having to deal with a situation where they find Scotland to all intents and purposes ungovernable.

      THAT is why you should vote SNP in May (this for any visitors). Moving legislation against the interests of the Scottish electorate will prove nigh on impossible with an SNP Scottish government and a block SNP Commons representation. Worse, in a tight commons, a large disciplined voting block of MPs will command a certain amount of leverage on any bill or policy movement at any given time.

      The establishment press know this. Labour know this and I’m pretty certain it hasn’t escaped DCs notice too. If they fear such a presence in their clubhouse, isn’t that reason enough to ensure it gets there? 🙂

    55. scottieDog says:

      It’s perfectly logical for right wing reporters to vie for labour. It is a right wing party.

    56. jackie g says:

      Guys,

      Another one has come over from the dark side..

      Ex-Labour councillor joins SNP.

      A Glasgow councillor who quit the Labour Party three years ago has joined the SNP.

      Stephen Dornan left Scottish Labour in 2012 and was later re-elected as an independent councillor for the Govan ward under the Glasgow First banner.

      He said he believed the SNP was now the “party of social justice”.

    57. Cyril Matvech says:

      Indeed and the Conservative Party’s EVEL veto plan, fracturing the UK only to protect their pro-South East right wing policies and laws form a predicted mass of new SNP MPs shows they too believe Salmond and Co will be far less comliant than the “Feable-Fifty” Labour MPs who assist brutal politics of the South East. Vote Labour, get Pro-Labour Party policies first and Pro-Scottish representation some time later!

      The Labour campaign to block the election of Alex Salmond as an MP exposes Labour Party’s own fears of a mass of SNP MPs smashing Labour’s comfort zone in Westminster where the right wing supporting press can headline Labour’s socialist policies in all Scottish editions whilst showing Labour’s right wing support for Conservative values in all the Southen editions! Vote Labour, get Conservative policies.

    58. manandboy says:

      Just had a thought – Had Ireland’s west coast oilfields
      been discovered a hundred years ago …

    59. Gods Country says:

      I wonder how many more will follow 🙂

      “Glasgow councillor who quit the Labour Party three years ago has joined the SNP.

      Stephen Dornan left Scottish Labour in 2012 and was later re-elected as an independent councillor for the Govan ward under the Glasgow First banner.

      Mr Dornan applied to join the SNP group last year and his membership has now been formally approved.

      He said he believed the SNP was now the “party of social justice”.”

    60. faolie says:

      Course this wasn’t in the script and our right wing metropolitan chums are knee deep in angst and confusion because of it. And the advantage that the SNP has (which is why their vote is going to be pretty close to the polls) is that the GE is not a referendum. We’re not going to leave the UK even if we return 59 SNP MPs, but we’ll have massive leverage over a Labour government to get as close, well you know, to federalism as possible.

      And hey, there’ll be no EU referendum, so no threat to the Union from that quarter either.

      And so our right wing metropolitan chums get their Labour government, though perhaps not quite in the way they imagined. But not bad really, win-win for everyone, even Ed.

      Mind you, there is the little matter of Trident that might spoil the party…

    61. Raymond reid says:

      I am 68yrs old,born and bred in Scotland,been ruled by England all my life,I am SCOTTISH the same as the people who are born and bred in England call themselves English,the rulers in England do not govern equally for all parts of the UK,and this is the main reason I would like to see SCOTLAND being able to run it’s own affairs for the betterment of the Scottish people,and the Scottish economy without the interference from the English establishment,because up until now whether it was labour or TORY or liberal who governed they have not done a very good job of it down through the years, they have divided this country,yet they cannot see what they have done.

    62. Gods Country says:

      @jackie g

      Just beat me to it 🙂

    63. Chris kilby says:

      Who will rid them of us turbulent Scots…?

    64. scottieDog says:

      Choosing to vote lib,lab, or tory is analogous to choosing between window dressings for the little shop of horrors.

    65. HandandShrimp says:

      As far as I can see the thinking and politics of the Tories and Labour are in utter disarray. To be honest I am having more fun than is decent with all this.

      If tactical voting was in peoples’ minds the SNP should not have won 6 of the 8 council by-elections since the referendum. There are few systems better suited to tactical voting than the transferable vote method used for council elections. For the SNP to be winning they are both securing a hefty first choice vote and not all the subsequent distribution of votes is being cast against them.

      It is little wonder that the regular Onionist posters are worried.

    66. DaveyM says:

      … who’s on whose side.

      😉

    67. jackie g says:

      Gods Country says:

      @jackie g

      Just beat me to it

      OOGH..i dont know how to post a wee grumpy face or a smilie..he he

      Yes wonder who will be next!

      Think Again says:

      Confused? You will be after this weeks exciting episode of S***

      Yes indeed

      I am young enough to (vaugely) cough..(sorry lesley Anne) remember that programme!

      Can anyone remember the theme tune? sure it must be on youtube somewhere…

    68. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Here is an interesting question…

      Suppose the Lib Dem and Tories all vote tactically for Labour to try to stop the SNP.

      This could lead to lots of lost deposits for these two parties. So at what stage do they cease to become major parties in Scotland and therefore lose their rights to representation on debates, rights to political party broadcasts, rights to regular TV access?

      In some ways it would be fairer if there was a straight two party choice – Independence or Union.

      Perhaps it may end up that way anyway with a Tory and Lib-Dem wipeout.

      So there is a downside to tactical voting. Not that I would want to sow any seeds of doubt in the minds of the Unionist parties and their supporters.

    69. One_Scot says:

      I have just realised that the Better Together campaign was essentially making the case that Britain could only exist if Labour and the Tories were happy for everyone to know that they had really become one party, essentially the two parties have become one large Westminster party who will go to any length to preserve the UK.

      Scotland has no place in this morally corrupt political system. The only way we can have any chance of saving Scotland is by voting for as many SNP MPs as possible in May.

    70. Geoff Huijer says:

      Just like Labour sycophants preferring a Tory Gov’t in Westminster than Independence.

      I think (could be wrong) that was one of Ian Smart’s blinders.

      Labour/Tory/LibDems are the Establishment. They are ‘the City’. They are the Rich.

    71. Marie clark says:

      Don’t leave us, we love you, please please please stay. Day after referendum, he he, we won, bring on EVEL, get back into you’re box now. All done and dusted.

      Naw, it’s no all done and dusted. We have moved on, even when it would appear that you have not. You wanted us to stay, so here we are, but we will now vote for the politicians who will indeed look after Scotland and her people. If you don’t like it, well it was what you voted for. Here we are, and for the moment, here we will stay.

      I wish you would not demean yourselves with all this lying and whining and self serving pish. It is so undignified.

      You’ll find out we Scot’s are a thrawn lot, and we’ll no be pushed aboot wae you lot much more. The end of your wee world is nigh.

      GIRFUY.

    72. Gouds Country says:

      @jackie g

      Try a colon followed by a left bracket for sad and right for happy 🙁 🙂

      Glad to be of assistance.

    73. Albaman says:

      Aye,
      It was a “ear opener”!, to hear Jenny Marra (?), being shouted down, in no uncertain terms, on the B.B.C.s “big debate” show on radio, the message re G Brown, and his extra, super exstra Vow, is not fooling that audience, Nore was it impressed when Jenny M stated the largest party with the vote always form the goverment, have a listen folks, it’s the last question put to the panel.
      Rev, it’s you and your like who are bringing to the publics attention the twisted, and downright lies of the unionist party’s, massive thanks.

    74. Clan Donald says:

      So the narrative is that voting for the SNP means Wee Ed wins less seats so the Tories will sneak in the back door. Therefore Tories must vote labour. Presumably so that the Tories don’t sneak in the back door? Tories electing that wee geek Ed Miliband as their PM? What planet are you on?

      But wait! Don’t worry Tory voters!, You can still vote Labour in Scotland and get the Tories in Westminster, the back door myth is just a ruse to crush the SNP vote, we all know Scotland votes Labour and gets Tory, you can be confident this is the most likely outcome. Vote Labour! You’ll get the Tories and crush the SNP!

      What do they think will happen if this scenario does come about? Can you imagine it? Scotland does indeed vote labour yet again but still gets Tory, whilst conned out of any real SNP representation at Westminster? Indyref 2 after a record SNP win at Holyrood in 2016 anyone?

    75. Gods Country says:

      @jackie g

      Good at smiley faces but cant spell my own fookin name 🙂

    76. muttley79 says:

      @Grendel

      I don’t understand why you said Labour will hold the Airdrie seat.

    77. R-type Grunt says:

      A question to ask any Labour representative we might meet between now & May is this…

      Will you, right now, rule out a future coalition with the Conservative party? Yes or No?

    78. tombee says:

      At my time of life I have for the first time become involved in a political party. What I am now witnessing of the BBC an other Mass Media outlets has and is sickening me. Democracy is in peril, I believe. As I do my share of leafleting in my Branch area I am well aware of the current predictions the pollsters have published. I nevertheless carry on as my colleagues do. Working to achieve the best result possible. Whether that is 50 seats or 20 seats or even less. It makes no difference. I am determined to do my bit to change this political system for the better. I am aware that every convert to our cause has to be won. Every vote for or party has to be won. Nothing at all taken for granted and I believe my colleagues think likewise. So let the MSM assist their Labour favourites all they can. They will never deter me from working as hard as I can to make my country a better place for all who choose to work and live here. Hopefully that will be a country freed from the yolk of unionism and all it’s treacherous ways.

    79. If Conservatives tactically vote for Labour, it could mean that they seriously damage the their prospects of forming a Gov. So would they?

      The Lib Dums tactically voting for Labour, when they are facing decimation not only in Scotland but across the UK. So would they?

      Turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind and lemmings is another thought.

    80. Dunkie says:

      There was a paragraph in William McLaughlin’s letter in today’s National which started with the sentence “The Westminster Government will take the hit from declining oil prices and intentionally damage the Scottish oil and gas industry to avoid it being an argument for independence.” The rest of that paragraph is well worth looking up and thinking about.

      I am surprised that it has taken until now for this “intentional damage” to Scotland’s interests and prospects as an independent country to emerge in pro indy blogs etc. Think of what Thatcher did to the Scottish economy and the steady stream of asset stripping of Scotland that has gone on ever since. Think of the currency issue during the referendum. Think of the MOD spiriting away of military bases etc from Scotland…

      They know bloody fine now that they cannae hold onto us much longer and by God they will strip out everything they can before we get there and also attempt a scorched earth policy wherever they can to make the initial years of our freedom as difficult for us as they can. This was their darkest underlying theme throughout the No referendum campaign (ie what they would do to us if we dared to go).

      We will expect no “love bombing” now, just a laying waste of Scotland’s future economic prospects while they still have us under their thumb and can exploit the chance that offers. Does this remind you of what went on in our wars of independence 700 years ago? The barbarism of that era has not gone away, the mind set of assumed arrogant superiority, ridicule and naked power is still there for all to see as it was in the time of Eddy I.

    81. Illy says:

      You know, there’s a set of films that I *really* don’t expect to see on the telly anytime soon because of all this.

      Here are some choice quotes:
      “People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.”
      “What if there never were any WMDs?”
      “Protect the people”
      “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need” Opps, sorry, that’s from the depreciated section of the Labour manifesto, not a film. Still won’t get any airtime though.

      (And one that doesn’t matter, but that they won’t show anyway: “Freeedom!” (yes, that’s an intentional extra ‘e’))

      Is there a way to get specific movies back on the telly? Something similar to what was tried with “Ding Dong, the witch is dead!”

    82. Proud Cybernat says:

      The vote in May is NOT IndyRef II, or anything close. Voters in Scotland will NOT be voting for independence by voting SNP in May. Let us be absolutely clear about that. The SNP policy is that independence will ONLY ever be declared upon the majority support in a referendum asking the specific question: “Should Scotland be an independent country?” There will be no other way.

      The MSM are attempting to pump up the May GE as IndyRef II int he hope that they can scare Labour voters back into the fold or even get Tories to “vote for the union by lending their vote to Labour”.

      It is nothing but MSM spin. A downright lie. Another of their cons. I realise no one here will be fooled by it but we are not their target. We need to hammer that message home to those who don’t understand–the May GE is NOT a vote for independence no matter how much the MSM try to tout it as such. They are doing that only to take votes away from the SNP and to restore ‘normal service’.

      Repeat – Scotland’s independence will ONLY ever come through majority support in a referendum asking the independence question. Ignore the MSM. The vote in May is a vote for Devo-Max–PROPER Devo-Max; the Devo-Max we all hoped would find its way onto last September’s ballot paper. It is a vote to give Scotland its voice; a vote to get MPs who actually can be bothered getting off their arses and working for the people here unlike the useless Labour louts we’ve been lumbered with for generations.

      Can you feel it yet? Can you feel the breeze? The winds of change? It’s in the air…..

    83. Craig P says:

      In my opinion, soft Tories have been voting Labour in Scotland to keep the SNP out for years. Not many of the hardcore of Tories left are likely to heed this call, a 1-2% boost to Labour at best.

    84. crazycat says:

      @ Caesar!man

      My MP was also on the Big Debate recently; I couldn’t go and was slightly surprised when I listened to it later that she got quite a rowdy reception. She was extraordinarily defensive throughout (which makes me hopeful that she may indeed lose her seat) and later sent out an e-brief, accusing the audience of heckling some school pupils who were there.

      There was in fact only one schoolgirl who spoke, and she was not heckled at all. All the heckling was directed at the MP, who richly deserved it. She was relying on most readers of her missive having neither attended the debate nor listened to the recording.

    85. Scotsman says:

      I would not base any figures on the last election. Scottish people are now more involved with politics now and would expect a much larger turnout than any previous elections.

    86. Craig P says:

      Another wee thought.

      In the recent Ashcroft poll, Glasgow NE was safe. But turnout in Glasgow NE was only 49%. What if people feel their vote might really make a difference this time?

    87. galamcennalath says:

      Wonder what made the Unionists think the referendum was all that was going to happen?! Also, why they thought if they won, it would be back to ‘normal’? Very odd.

      If we had won, we’d be in the middle of independence negotiations.

      However, they won, so we all move on to the next stage … we try to get the most out of the Union we are stuck in. Is that not what they expected?

      They wanted us to stay. Well, we are staying and we are going to make our presence felt!

      Of course the underlying element to everything is … “it was close, so continue to play silly buggers with us and we will definitely leave next time”!

      They really hate democracy, don’t they.

    88. seanair says:

      Can’t help having a laugh at the Dail Mail twisting and turning to attack Labour in UK and SNP in Scotland.
      Failure of Labour in England will let the Tories back in, but failure of Labour in Scotland may be necessary to give a the Tories a decent majority. And who will defeat Labour in Scotland? Not the LibDems or the Tories obviously. That leaves……..

    89. r baxter says:

      you would not get a sheet of san izal between them. oh the memories for us old bums. ask ronnie.

    90. Brian Fleming says:

      Why this fetishistic attachment to the Union above all sense? I just cannot understand these people, at all. Tories voting Labour to save the Union?

      Ah, I get it after all. They don’t actually care how well the ‘country’ is governed, because their well-being doesn’t depend on that, or at least they believe it doesn’t. Well f”k the lot of them, blue tories and red. And the other ones too, whatever their colour is.

    91. Johnny says:

      At least Murdo Fraser, on ThinkScotland, has the conviction to say ‘vote for my party as the alternative to the SNP’ as opposed to pleading for people to prop up Labour. I may not like the Tories one little bit, but there’s some principle in that, at least.

    92. Cag-does-thinking says:

      What is hilarious is the media keep referring to how the referendum has brought enviable levels of political engagement and how great that is and how it should happen everywhere and then in the next breath how dare we vote for the SNP because they just don’t play the game like the other parties. They never seem to link the two togeather and that political engagement has come about because Scotland has been so badly served by the Westminster parties.

    93. Tobias Hendry says:

      This strategy is based on a false premise that those who voted No share their hatred for the SNP. SLAB in particular can’t seem to distinguish between Labour voters and Labour activists. A Unionist pact with the Condems would be the final nail in their coffin.

    94. galamcennalath says:

      Tactical voting. My opinion is that not every Unionist voter is tribally and fanatically anti SNP.

      Evidence suggests that LibDems turned to the SNP when they were sold out by Clegg supporting the Tories. Clearly not anti SNP on principle.

      Many older Tories and Labour voters think the old class war is still being fought between Con & Lab. They will vote as they always have done. To vote tactically you need to be savvy and politically aware. Does the rump of Lab & Con strike you as savvy?

      Then there are the new kids, UKIP. Polls suggest they have gone from 1 to 5% in Scotland. Whatever the get, it will be soaking up Unionist votes and thus to some extent denying Labour votes.

      Accordingly, I think there will be less tactical voting to keep out the SNP than expected.

    95. call me dave says:

      If the unionist believe that 40 SNP MP’s are likely to be elected a grand union coalition will be touted in Scotland, but it will be down played in England as it will not wash with the electorate down South.

      PS:
      Wee snippet from the Herald today.
      ———————————————————–
      THE Smith Commission process on giving Holyrood more powers was undertaken with “excessive haste”, constitutional experts have claimed, and might have to be revisited after the General Election.

      Appearing before the House of Lords Constitution Committee to discuss the proposed changes to give the Scottish Parliament more powers on tax and welfare, Professor Michael Keating referred to the “unrealistic timetable” set out for the cross-party Vow. Draft legislative clauses were drawn up within four months of the referendum result.

      Referring to them, the Director of the Economic and Social Research Council’s Centre on Constitutional Change said: “This was not debated within the general public. There’s not a lot of understanding about what these involve. It was done in excessive haste. There are all kinds of technical problems. There was not time for a proper discussion with representatives of civil society. There was not time to do a lot of the technical work that is needed to make sure the details of these are right. I couldn’t see what the hurry was.”

      He pointed out how the cross-party agreement had now been superceded, at least from Labour’s viewpoint, which has proposed additional powers. “It would have been healthier if the parties had paused a little, taken their proposals into the election and this would have given an opportunity for a proper discussion in the next parliament.”

      Dr Mark Elliott from Cambridge University also said it was “extraordinary” that the enhanced devolution was being pushed through with such speed.
      —————————————————-

      Had a couple of ‘NO’ acquaintances briefly chatting in the cafe this morning (old labour) both a bit remorseful referendum.

      Gave them my yesterdays National with the wrecking ball front page. (was checking my answers in the Xword). Left them to read it…(will they though).

    96. Macart says:

      @ galamcennalath 3.36pm

      Bad news for public servants.

      They are ‘servants’ and they are there to meet our needs and requirements, or in short, ‘dae as thir telt’. 🙂

      If they can’t accept that premise, we find public servants who will. 😉

    97. call me dave says:

      @r baxter

      For the old bums using the site. 🙂

      http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1051

    98. Taranaich says:

      Impossible to satirise. It reminds me of Vault 11 in Fallout: New Vegas.

      https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/vote-for-the-other-guy-the-other-guy/

      @Dan Huil: Referendum Mk II. Complete with scare stories and unionist media bias.

      It’s been clear to me for a while that independence has always shaped UK politics – i.e., how to stop those pesky Nats from Breaking Up Britain. The fear of independence was used against the SNP long before Holyrood, and it’s clear from McCrone that Labour was happy to side with the Tories even before they died and were replaced with New Labour.

      The Scottish Covenant was ignored, because it was clear Home Rule would be a stepping stone to independence, just as it was in Ireland (to an extent). The paltry 1979 deal was scuppered following the discovery of oil. The only reason we had devolution was because independence was on the table, and it was then believed that moderate devolution would placate the Scots.

      It only seems that independence has only recently been part of the agenda, because up until now the Establishment has been successful in marginalising the independence movement. But in truth, it’s always been there. The only difference is it’s now out in the open in the burning light of day, and the vampires which held their priveleged position close to their chests are screaming in the sunlight.

      @Andrew Walker: Unfortunately for the unionists their vote WILL be split, and with substantial labour and libdem voter moves to SNP we WILL get a large number of SNP MPs.

      I couldn’t believe our luck when not only UKIP, but the bleeding TORIES put forward candidates in Inverclyde. INVERCLYDE. Fifth highest Yes-voting constituency, New Labour lead halved in a by-election a year after a 14,416 majority, whose New Labour council just recently lost overall control after one of them came out for independence and became an independent.

      Then I sobered up and realised that the UKIP vote in 2011 was 288, and the Tories 2,784. In an electorate of 67,000, it’ll still be a hell of a fight.

      @galamcennalath: We are up against opposition who believes that institutions are more important than people.

      That’s the best, most succinct encapsulation of the situation I’ve read.

    99. Alex Salmond didn`t half open a political `Pandoras Box` when he signed the Edinburgh Agreement,all the evil and nastiness the lies the hate the treachery spewing out infecting those who support the Establishment/Union.
      I think even the Unionists would be surprised how quickly they lost all humanity for the want of greed/power.
      There was one thing left in Pandoras Box and that was `The Spirit of Hope`which I like many others nearly lost on the 19th,but thanks to The Rev and Nicola and The 45 and many other patriots it is still there and growing in strength every day/week/month.
      “It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”

    100. Dr Jim says:

      Remember folks, we are Separatists, Insurgents, Extremists and Ultra Extremists, and those are just the polite words given to us by politicians in public, so what do you think they call us on the doorsteps
      These words are normally used for Terrorists and Murderers on the news but have become normal accepted usage when referring to the SNP and supporters
      Remember when Alex Salmond ceased to be called that and just became Salmond have you noticed it’s now Nicola’s turn she’s just Sturgeon most of the time
      According to the Unionists we’re every kind of evil under the sun, and yet it’s Unionist behaviour that demonstrates the complete opposite by their continued stifling of free speech, their use of the BBC in controlling the listening and viewing airwaves and print media to the point of disallowing certain programming material which may either show them in a bad light or show any favour to ours… Unionist support have been clearly pictured on several occasions waving around Nazi salutes
      Fortunately there’s an up side beginning to appear there are some who were on the NO side, however late, have started to spot what we’ve been experiencing for a long time and they’re going to vote accordingly, and will not return to the Labour party even after the Election and nothing Mr Murphy or Crash or any of the last remnants of what’s hiding in the Bunker in the Labstagg offices can say that’ll change their mind
      So it’s goodbye from me and hopefully goodbye from them

    101. bookie from hell says:

      Remember when George Galloway/Ruth Davidson were a tag team for Better Together BBC debate

      Union First,whatever it takes

      Nae shame

    102. Taranaich says:

      @Proud Cybernat: It is nothing but MSM spin. A downright lie. Another of their cons. I realise no one here will be fooled by it but we are not their target. We need to hammer that message home to those who don’t understand–the May GE is NOT a vote for independence no matter how much the MSM try to tout it as such. They are doing that only to take votes away from the SNP and to restore ‘normal service’.

      This is easily alleviated by pointing out to those concerned that the other parties have always said a vote for the SNP was a vote for independence. Remember the “Then What?” poster? “Scot-La-La-Land”? In every election where the SNP looked to be a factor, they’ve tried to scare voters into thinking they’ll enact the “30 SNP MPs = declare independence” thing that hasn’t been their policy in decades. It’s no more true this year than it was in 1997 or 2005.

      I fully expect them, and the MSM, to push the “vote for SNP = vote for independence” line more than ever given the referendum, so we have to be very clear about what the election’s about. I anticipate New Labour phoning up elderly voters telling them that if they get more than 28 MPs they’ll just declare independence. If they’re prepared to tell New Scots they’ll be deported, that pensioners will lose their pensions, and the unemployed will lose their benefits, then why should we expect them not to lie about the SNP’s intentions?

      It must be about more powers – which is, of course, what the SNP are doing. The fact that the SNP are pushing for the powers New Labour and the Lib Dems have been saying they would for the better part of a century should never be forgotten.

    103. Harry McAye says:

      Grendel

      Why so negative? Take a look at the Airdrie and Shotts poll. It is not a “fact” that Labour will hold the seat, it is your rather negative opinion! If you haven’t already, I’d suggest getting involved with your local SNP Branch and get out there and help in some way. Don’t sit at home and moan on here.

    104. Grouse Beater says:

      jimnarlene says: “They regard the SNP “as” insurgents.”

      Having been in buffet tabled rooms when Scotland’s governance was discussed, I have to concede you’re correct in assuming that’s what is said behind closed doors.

    105. Davy says:

      It’s slightly hard to believe that the right wing tory press are actually telling tory and libdem supporters to vote for labour in Scotland.

      Their own internal polls must be scaring the shite out of them, and its not something you can hide from the public either.

      Imagine the labour MP’s trying to explain to labour supporters that the torys are going to vote for them just so they can be in power to keep the tories out of power.

      err WHAT THE F##K is proberly going to be the answer.

      PS, it was fun on the politics show listening to Jenny Marra get shouted down when she tried to lie about it being the biggest party gets to form a government.

      PPS, May I remind all SNP Keith members and supporters its our AGM at the UGIE Hotel tonight please attend if possible, we have to use the UGIE now as our membership has increased from 36 to 136. yeeha.

    106. Grouse Beater says:

      I do not find it a surprise Labour says vote Tory, and Tories say vote Labour, to toss away Scotland’s democratic rights in the General election.

      Those two parties became one, the business party of commerce and capital, some fifteen years ago.

    107. Dan Huil says:

      If it becomes obvious that unionist parties want their supporters to vote tactically it will only disgust the public. Especially if the same unionist parties then continue to peddle the false premise of individually fighting to win.

      It will also disgust a sizable amount of party loyalists – to the detriment of those unionist parties.

    108. Desimond says:

      This is actual Establiment lunacy.

      Defining yourself by what you are NOT is suicidal.

      Think how “Denying Scotland a true recognised voice” has worked out so far….massive membership increase for SNP and massive swing away from Labour.

      Even some who wont be voting SNP this time have become aware of the political spectrum and a complicit media… this all contributes to more and more votes in 2016

    109. Joemcg says:

      Taranaich-28 SNP m.p.s will equal independence? You have just gave the red Tories a brilliant idea! Can hear that one now getting rolled out.

    110. Luigi says:

      Dan Huil says:

      6 February, 2015 at 4:41 pm

      Voters will be disgusted, Dan. This little cunning plan of theirs could (and should) backfire spectacularly on them. I thought the referendum was last year? The unionist parties are panicking, and want their supporters to vote tactically, not because they fear independence, but because they do not want to give Scotland real powers.

      Worth repeating:

      because they do not want to give Scotland real powers.

    111. Grendel says:

      Muttley 79, My belief that Labour will probably hold Airdrie stems from the fact that when you look at the breakdown of figures for the referendum Airdrie voted No. The remainder of North Lanarkshire voted Yes so this is usually overlooked. The Toris and Lib Dems never pull much votes here, so its a straight SNP/Labour fight and will be sold as a rerun of the referendum to the unionists.

      Harry McAye, I’m sorry but I won’t be helping the Airdrie and Shotts branch, for reasons I won’t go into here.

    112. Midgehunter says:

      The unionists are going to use every trick (dirty) and tactic in the book to stave off the SNP and keep their power system running. This means if necessary voting for their ugly red brothers and sisters. Curran and Co.

      This is why we need to make sure that there is a maximum vote for the SNP by getting the SSP and greens on board.

      Play them at their own game and get your own game moving by picking up as many defectors to us as possible.

    113. Peekay says:

      I’ve just been pondering if the voters in my constituency(East Ren) will go back to Tory again. They only swung over to ‘New’ Labour and with Murphy banging on about “change” and making ‘Old’ Labour noises it might not be too appealing to them.

    114. Les Wilson says:

      Keeping this stuff up is a certainty, however, in my humble opinion they will split their own support as it becomes more and more clear that this is an anti democracy line.

      In pursuing this path, they are hastening what they fear most. A further rise for ever more democracy in Scotland.
      Which will split the UK permanently, bring it on.

    115. muttley79 says:

      There are a few major problems with the idea of tactical voting involving people who voted No in the referendum. Firstly, a significant, although small element of SNP voters voted No. However, they generally seem to view the SNP as their party, and I cannot see them looking favourable at the actions of SLAB and Tories in the last few years.

      Secondly, we know there are also a small, but again significant group of No voters who want to see Holyrood with significantly greater powers. The behaviour of the unionist parties cannot have reassured this section much at all. So there already exists two groups of No voters who cannot be relied on to support tactical voting for unionist parties.

    116. Croompenstein says:

      I think we need an APB out for Flipper, where is Flipper the general who ‘won’ the ref for Bitter Together. I think they have spirited him away and he is crouched in a wee corner nodding back and forward and blinking like fuck. Come back Flipper we need you..

      Meanwhile mad old Cochers is roon at Mrs Flipper’s feasting on her fish lasagne (it’s the first time I’ve heard it called that 🙂 )

    117. Schrodingers cat says:

      great idea

      us fiendishly clever bods in SNPNEF will simply leaflet different towns with different leaflets
      eg,
      Tories!, Vote labour to keep the SNP out
      Labour! vote Libdem to keep the SNP out
      LibDems! Vote Tory to keep the SNP out

      Sorted
      snigger

    118. velofello says:

      For peace and harmony throughout these isles all that is required is for the Unionists:-

      Put in place full fiscal autonomy for Scotland.
      Provide same for Wales and N. Ireland if they wish it.
      Cancel Trident.
      Share foreign affairs policy decision making.

      But that requires Westminster to recognise the equal rights of the four UK nations rather than government by weight by population. To share power on governmental affairs, and face the personal loss of expenses largesse are steps too far for the Establishment I’d wager.

    119. Luigi says:

      Midgehunter says:

      6 February, 2015 at 5:08 pm

      The unionists are going to use every trick (dirty) and tactic in the book to stave off the SNP and keep their power system running.

      Indeed. However:

      Are all NO voters certified unionists?

    120. schrodingers cat says:

      people vote tactically anyway, even if what they think they are doing is in fact a hinderance rather than helping their target group. what % of the population even know what constituency they are in? I read in the Guardian, by a political commentator, that Chris Law had been chosen as candidate for Dundee South. this was corrected shortly after a commentator BTL pointed out that Dundee south would be in the river Tay or Fife.
      trying to organise tactical voting is like herding cats
      it needs a very switched on electorate, which by definition excludes the 55% of No voters

    121. Barbara McKenzie says:

      Just keep getting the message out Stu, and Labour will just keep haemorrhaging support.

    122. Aspen says:

      Joined a choir this am and the first song we sang was from Les Miserables “Do You Hear the People Sing”. Did I enjoy belting that out and quietly substituting “Scotland” when they mentioned “France”. (Well, everybody else was English and I didn’t want to get expelled on my first day!)

    123. Effijy says:

      Isn’t it wonderful how the Blue Tories and Yellow Tory Lib
      Dems are all quite happy to put themselves on the Dole, just to stop Scotland from having a True Voice in Westminster!

      I think they, the so called big 3 parties, and the Media have finally established that they will stop at nothing to
      keep their elitist gravy train running and to Hell with
      the working classes!

      I’m sure that Danny and Douglas Alexander, Brown Gravy train, Maggie the Liar Curran, and Willie Rennie could all be given Ermine Robes and nice pensions from Our Taxes
      for services rendered to the corrupt and filthy rich politicians.

    124. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      @croompenstein

      Also wondering where flipper has gone? The gimp must be back in the cellar…

      http://gregmoodie.com/david-cameron-paints-it-black/

      Cockers and Fish Lasagne – you have just put me off my tea!

    125. Flower of Scotland says:

      O/t Sorry!

      Does anyone know what’s happened to the Sottish Statesman? There,s been nothing for Two weeks! Helena Brown, you sometimes comment, do you know?

    126. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Vote for labour ’cause that’s what they had in your da’s time and in your granda’s time. Also vote for polio.” – Frankie Boyle.

    127. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      David Mundell is a bitter twisted wee man and as we are talking about enemies….

      http://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/the-enduring-nastiness-of-bitter.html

    128. garles says:

      Nana Smith says:
      6 February, 2015 at 6:03 pm

      O/T

      David Mundell is a bitter twisted wee man and as we are talking about enemies…
      Even better in local paper smiling Mark – Scowling Mundell

    129. bookie from hell says:

      Baron Folkes

      Ban Polling

      Foulkes, who has also served as a MSP the Scottish parliament, told The Huffington Post, in the wake of the polls: “What is clear now is the media in particular, but others as well, are demanding instant polling, determining when it should be done and how it should be done. The the academic rigour that ought to be carried out isn’t being carried out.”

      He said polling firms were “making millions” and accused the companies of failing to employ the “academic rigour” that they used to. “The whole thing did seem to me to be effectively corrupted,” Foulkes said of polling firms methodology.

      And he accused Ashcroft of deliberately conducting polling in Scottish seats that had a high ‘Yes’ vote in the recent independence referendum, in an attempt to create an anti-Labour narrative.

      “He [Ashcroft] chooses the ones that will be worse for the Labour Party. I’m not against constituency polling,” Foulkes said. “But they are being carried out at the whim of one man, instead of choosing a sample of constituencies around Scotland and doing them properly in each constituency. He can determine the methodology of the poll and choose the constituencies that he thinks will help the bandwagon [against Labour].”

    130. Lollysmum says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      “Alex Salmond didn`t half open a political `Pandoras Box` when he signed the Edinburgh Agreement”

      Yes but Indyref did everyone a favour-it let everyone know what they are up against & how bad unionists can be. Now you know you can go forward to next stage with confidence. They weren’t expecting that to be the case so it’s caught them napping.Hence the panic setting in yet again.

    131. JLT says:

      So, if there are Conservative-minded Scottish folk out there, who are being persuaded to vote Labour; and do so …which in turn could potentially mean that Labour keep half of their Scottish seats, and thus deliver a Labour majority in the Commons, then it speaks volumes that even the Tories would willingly have their ‘great enemy’, the Red Tories, in power than see the end of the Union.

      Well …it certainly puts a new spin on ‘better red than dead!’

      Could such a scenario come to pass where Tory voters vote for Labour? In my heart, I just can’t see it! It does work in theory and would cause havoc on an SNP landslide in seats, but I just can’t see the good people of say, Morningside or Stockbridge, who may have a lovely big house, a chestful of cash, a super-dooper top range BMW or Range Rover in the driveway, kids at Watsons or George Heriots, and whom take 3 holidays a year …voting for numpty Murphy and the Scottish Labour Party. It just goes totally against the grain within their DNA. I think those Tory-minded people would rather burst into flames that be told to vote Scottish Labour. I just can’t see it! You may get a couple of hundred in each constituency doing it, but not the vast army that they would hope to do it! I honestly believe that a Tory minded person will vote Tory, and then worry about the outcome of an SNP victory afterwards, since they will believe – as they have always believed – that Westminster as it always does, will have a couple of ideas in dealing with the Nationalist upstarts and thus dash the Scottish dreams once more. I honestly believe that will be the way that a Scottish Tory voter will think.

    132. Sinky says:

      Noticed a bit about Poundland on Telly to-night which reminds me whatever happened to the 1000s of new Labour members at £1 joining fee. On TV Murphy couldn’t say how many members there are in Scotland no doubt because it all goes through London.

      And is The Rangers the only Football Club in Scotland to hold their AGM in London? Always good to be close to your support.

    133. Helena Brown says:

      Sorry no idea,I have cancelled my subscription does seem to have given up which is sad. Donated to Wings instead.

    134. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      I do not want to disrupt the thread so this is for you all to listen to later on.

      We need to talk about Jim…

      http://www.spreaker.com/user/michaelgreenwell/scotindypod-99-we-need-to-talk-about-jim?clickid=1kbWRtTpA09o2R5wURXsczZxUkV1IiyFgzXu3g0&irpid=10078&sharedid=&mp_value1=

    135. Gary says:

      Whether Labour want to put their referendum friendships with the Tories behind them, or not, no one is going to let them forget it! They are the Unionist Party more so than the Conservative & Unionist Party. As per the quote, they are the “Defenders” of the union. They’ve made a rod for their own back and the Tories are enjoying every minute of it. They wrongly assume they will benefit. I can imagine either Lab or Tory voting LibDem tactically or LibDems going the other way but I can’t imagine Labour voting Tory or vice versa. There’ll be a small nub of hard core super orange voters who will do as they’re told but that’s it. Even NO voters are voting SNP.

    136. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      You heard it hear first, good folk of ALBA…

      “Open shortlist to replace MP Murphy”…

      Unfortunately, it’s from the BBC Cymru/Wales page…(Paul Murphy, Torfaen MP – still, another servile BritEmpire cowtower…)

      Now THAT would have been a thing, wouldn’t it!!

    137. davidb says:

      And on our theme this week, some of you may be interested in

      http://sentio2015.co.uk/

    138. muttley79 says:

      @Taranaich

      What happened in Vault 11 in Fallout: New Vegas? I played it years ago, but have forgotten most of it. I remember blowing up a vault but there was so many. I can remember killing the Roman type emperor leader at the end, and legging it, and being run by the Proterean (sp) Guard!

    139. Reading about Margaret Curran maybe being at the Arms dealers soiree I found out that the BBC`s own Jeremy Vine received a five-figure sum for a post-dinner speech at said soiree.
      Employed by the BBC and supposedly a practising Christian he seems to think supporting organisations that basically sell the means to kill and maim fellow humans is suitable for a Christian and employee of the BBC.

    140. robertknight says:

      The SNP vote in May, on the basis of the referendum and the last Holyrood election, should be low 40’s percentage-wise. The problem for the Unionists is that the remaining 50%, (exluding Greens, UKIP, BNP, SSP), will be split between 2.5 parties. (Libdems not quite constituting a ‘whole’).

      Therefore it should come as no surprise to anyone that the Tories, who have nothing to gain in Scotland and in reality nothing to lose, will be looking at the SNP and Labour in order to weigh up the worst case scenario as far as their Unionist agenda is concerned.

      A Labour government may be a bad prospect, as far as the Tories are concerned, but a Labour government being ‘driven’ by the SNP is an even worse one.

      In the event of a hung parliament, with 30+ SNP MPs, expect to the see Unionists from all the UK constituent countries close ranks in order to counter attempts at muscle flexing on the part of any SNP/PC block.

    141. Bigheed says:

      This was always going to happen, these lowlifes that are determined to hold their own people back to stand behind an ideology that is dead to the growing numbers of Scots who are marching in a political direction WE have chosen and not our colonial masters in Westminster!!!

      Combine this with a significant number of the populace that still believe the BBC/DR. All lead me to believe that the predictions for WM Seats is grossly exaggerated from what the SNP will actually obtain.

      From our experience last year we know that we will be bombarded with “if the SNP get seats it will cause….” and how will people with limited intelligence wearing red rosettes become millionaires if they are wiped out???

    142. muttley79 says:

      @JLT

      Morningside and Stockbridge only make up a small area of their constituencies. Even there you will find some support for the SNP. Not sure how much granted. However, there are only 5 seats in Edinburgh, and they include Craigmillar, Granton, Niddrie, Muirhouse, Pilton, Wester Hailes etc, where the Yes vote was no doubt the largest in Edinburgh.

    143. Krackerman says:

      It would appear Maggie Curran after being asked many times on facebook about her relationship with deathmonger Raytheon has wiped down her site and rebooted it – have a look – https://www.facebook.com/MargaretCurranForGlasgowEast?fref=ts

      Anyone who of course asked a question has indeed been blocked – Scottish Labour eh – Pravda has no patch on them…

      Just wondering if the money Jimbo Murphy asked for to fight the campaign in Scotland has been spent on zero hour contracted workers to admin the labour MP’s sites. Wee bawbag Dougie Alexander has had similar treatment….

    144. Thepnr says:

      I never believed at all in the possibility of a grand coalition, surely not possible, will destroy what is left of Labour.

      Now I’m not so sure, anything can happen and often does.

    145. Bob Mack says:

      Some wag on facebook has just amalgamated the Labour and Consevative supporters into one. He has christened them CONSERVABOURS .Still smirking

    146. MrObycyek says:

      The Tories and New Labour are two cheeks of the same bum and it is high time that bum was was well and truly booted.

    147. Craig P says:

      Re: baron pishybreeks. If he doesn’t like Ashcrofts polls, nobody is stopping him putting some of his own millions into a Labour friendly poll.

      Wish some media outlets would say that back to him.

    148. Croompenstein says:

      Just read my iscot magazine, I would encourage everyone to get behind this wonderful publication. Our very own kendomacaroonbar is the man 🙂

    149. JLT says:

      Muttley79

      Totally agree with what you say, and I agree that there were many folk who do come from Stockbridge, Morningside as well as other affluent areas who did vote ‘Yes’ in the referendum. I do not doubt it!
      But that’s the point. For me, the idea that the Conservatives and Labour would get into bed to do tactical voting in Scotland …it might be mooted. It might even be openly discussed, but I just can’t see it coming to pass. I believe folk will vote as their heart tells them. Ruthie may tell her fellow Tory countrymen to vote Labour in certain areas, but I think those folk will just snort at the idea and vote Tory anyway.

      The real concern is the media, and especially the BBC. That is where the real manipulation is, and that is what we have to worry about. Not Unionist tactical voting.

    150. schrodingers cat says:

      I didn’t expect the result of the Holyrood Election in 2011. No-one did. Recent polls indicate a similar or greater success for the SNP in May. Should these polls become a reality, it will give us an opportunity to do something in the Holyrood Election in 2016, which was unimaginable just 4 years ago.
      Consider the following scenario from 2011 with a cross party Scotland Alliance, where the SNP didn’t stand any list MSP’s and that the SSP/SG didn’t stand any Constituency MSP’s, the result would have been as follows.
      SNP 53 +0 = 53
      Labour 15 +7 = 22
      Tory 3 + 5 = 8
      LibDems 2 + 0 = 2
      Indy 0 + 0 = 0
      Greens/SSP 0 + 44 = 44

      2011 actual result
      SNP 53 + 16 = 69
      Lab 15 + 22 = 39
      Tory 3 + 12 = 15
      LibDems 2 + 3 = 5
      Indy 0 + 1 = 1
      Greens 0 + 2 = 2

      I enjoyed the Yes campaign immensely, not the result obviously, but the camaraderie between the SNP, SG, SSP and those of no political allegiance. To be part of such a movement was an awe inspiring privilege, the memory of which I will take to my grave.
      Too bad that the General Election comes before the Holyrood Election, It would have given us the opportunity to continue working together for the greater good of Scotland, an opportunity I would have relished. Even if the above scenario would have meant, and may mean in the future, the loss of an overall majority for the SNP in Holyrood, the chance to see Wullie Rennie, Wee Ruthie and so many other well kent unionist faces relegated back into the obscurity where they belong, is too good to miss. It would be worth it.
      Unfortunately, this is not the case; we have a General Election in May before this opportunity presents itself. So what to do about it? It was mooted by many that a Scotland Alliance should have been created, the SNP should have stood aside in 2 or 3 seats to allow the SG’s and the SSP to have a free and unhindered run at the incumbent unionist politicians. I was against this for a number of reasons and fell foul of a number of people on this site for saying so, “ilk man and mothers son tak heed”, after a hard day’s work and a bottle of red, 2 am is probably not the best time to post on wings. I was concerned that such an alliance might precipitate the emergence of a Scottish Unionist Party and I didn’t think the electoral calculus was with the SSP or the SG in a general election. I still don’t. I asked a fellow winger I had driven down to Rosyth, “for the sake of unity among the Indy movement, was it worth risking losing 2 or 3 seats to the unionists”? His answer was a resounding “No”. But I’m not so sure now, I understand that the SSP and the SG have a right to representation, otherwise they might as well fold and join the SNP and I don’t think such a one party state is desirable. It is also true the SG’s and the SSP may take votes from the unionist candidates, as pointed out by Paula Rose a few days ago, but they will also undoubtedly take votes from the SNP candidates. The real question is “how much from each? which unfortunately can never be answered. The problem will arise if the unionist candidate wins by a margin of e.g. 4% over the SNP and the SG/SSP gain 5% of the vote. The accusation of splitting the vote by the Indy movement will be loud and clear and very divisive. Perhaps if I had framed my question to my fellow winger “what is worse? Losing 2 or 3 seats to the unionist because the Indy movement split the vote or because the SG/SSP were not up to the task”? I might have got a different answer.
      Why is this so important now? If the polls are to be believed, then the unionists are about to be wiped out in a few months. The demise of the Labour and the LibDem parties may herald the launch of a Scottish Unionist Party and the tables will be reversed, it is the opposition who will be united and we who will be divided. An alliance is now not just desirable I think it is unavoidable. I sincerely hope that, should a unionist candidate win a seat in May, then combining the SNP/SG/SSP vote still leaves us short of a winning majority, otherwise we might be looking at an SNP/Solidarity alliance for Holyrood in 2016

    151. Thepnr says:

      @Croompenstein

      Re iScot, got mine earlier in the week, this has every chance of being a success and I hope it is. The article on the McCrone report was very good, just wish more people would read it, especially the under-informed.

      I hear that it will be available in newsagents across Scotland from the middle of the month. I’m thinking of buying a second copy that I can leave somewhere that it may be read.

    152. Lollysmum says:

      @Krackerman
      The Mags Curran comments from yesterday are still there-it’s up to 213 now 🙂 Make interesting reading & almost every one is negative.

    153. JLT says:

      Right …what the **** is going on with the presenters on Reporting Scotland?

      All this week, I have noticed that Jackie and Sally are sporting red tops / dresses when presenting the news. No trendy sky blue tops, or stylish black dresses.

      Nope …it’s red, red, red. Every night since Wednesday.

      Now …I might be a tad paranoid on this one. It might be even overkill on my part.

      …but why do I get the feeling that we are being subjected to a form of subliminal messaging from our state broadcaster at Pravda …err the BBC?

      You will vote Labour. You will vote Labour. Look at our red clothes …Layyyybuuuur

    154. Harry McAye says:

      bookie from hell, you should know by now to never post direct links to the Daily record or any other paper that hates us. Do not click, do not give them the traffic. Try to archive it if you can.

    155. Tam Jardine says:

      muttley79

      From the data I have seen Edinburgh North and Leith voted yes – Leith Walk and Leith voting yes and Forth ward voting no albeit narrowly. Pilton (part of Forth) was I recall the strongest Yes vote in the constituency. Trinity and Inverleith let us down as predicted.

    156. Macart says:

      @ JLT

      Happily I’m a colour blind artworker. The only time I see red is when some wag nicks the last of the milk oot the canteen fridge on back shift grrrrrrrrr.

    157. Ian Kirkwood says:

      I have purposely avoided reading any of the comments. These are frighteningly sinister quotes which highlight a manipulative media approach to how politics in Scotland and the UK are being used to channel thought process in the electorate.
      Keep it simple. Vote for those who you believe will deliver the best future for you, living in Scotland.

    158. Rock says:

      “That alone should serve as a warning to the Nats and their activists that however good the polls are now, they can take nothing for granted.”

      If everything else fails, they will rig it.

      And it will be the mysterious “silent majority” that did it.

      But at least we will be comforted by the fact that it would have been impossible to rig it and no “evidence” will exist.

      The 50p you lot spend on The National would be better spent making 5 prints of each W O S article and distributing it.

    159. Thomas Valentine says:

      After reading the post concerning a SNP/SG/SSP alliance and the unaswered questions that raises between amicable parties, how many does it raise for the unionist?

      They are entrench and tribal. They can not bring themselves deal evenhandedly. It was one thing to join against us but what if they had different options on the referendum paper?

      Above all this in the Labour politician’s mind is who will be sacrificed. They see the others as dead meat and still talk of taking LibDem seats. Are the LibDems to just step aside for nothing? With so few party members on the street how will they divide their resources? Which seats to actually fight hard to keep? They must be tearing themselves apart demanding the money and workers be used to save their particular patch. Murphy is a target and he will use far more resources and people than necessary sucking them from others to our benefit. Hopefully the SNP will go all in and make it Murphy’s Verdun causing more Labour heads to roll as a consequence of defending the “dear leader”.

    160. Tam Jardine says:

      By the way – I have been away from Wings all day – are we any further forward in finding out if Margaret Curran and Brian ‘submember of parliament’ Donohoe actually attended the arms shindig?

      Honestly, who is handling these folk? What’s the last thing the slabites needed at the start of the GE campaign? That’s 2 seats where the SNP have an open goal with a wee leaflet telling every constituent about them supping with the devil.

      Despite myself I hope they did not attend. Having said that mibbe Brian D has seen Iron Man and thought he’d get one of they exoskeleton hings tae take on the Russians himself.

      I wouldnae trust the guy to take on a payday loan

    161. snode1965 says:

      Yo Grendel, or Victor Meldrew whatever. Let’s no fight for Airdrie cos its full of Unionists and we canny win….Alex Neil is our MSP ya f#ckin tattie. Now jog on ya troll….

    162. dougiekdy says:

      @thepnr 08:20

      My “National” gets left on the train at Waverley every morning – I wonder if anybody reads it?

      I was going to give it to Henry McLeish the other week but he was away before I got the chance:-)

    163. Effijy says:

      Vote for labour ’cause that’s what they had in your da’s time and in your granda’s time.

      Maybe now that they have turned into Tories, and are selling off the NHS that keeps you going, you should perhaps consider changing your vote before they kill you?

    164. muttley79 says:

      It looks like the Daily Record, the house journal of SLAB, are trying to find damaging stuff on SNP candidates. Will they be doing the same with SLAB? Will they fuck. Black is a young, promising female politician and activist. Some of the things she has done and said are just daft and youthful mistakes, everyone has to learn the hard way. It is obvious that the Record are trying to get the SNP to deselect her. Why have they never pulled SLAB up on Davidson and their other SLAB comrades? GTF Daily record.

    165. sinky says:

      Rock
      Why do some wingers keep slagging off The National it is a newspaper that supports indy Scotland not Pravda. It should be supported and we should all keep writing letters to the unionist press as no point just posting on Wings as we are all on side. Well mostly

    166. manandboy says:

      @ Rock
      The 50p you lot spend on The National would be better spent making 5 prints of each W O S article and distributing it.
      ______________________________________________________

      Even better, Rock, think positively – do both.

      Support Independence, support The National.

    167. manandboy says:

      BTW Airdrie will be just fine. No worries.

    168. De Valera says:

      The run up to the referendum confirmed what most of us knew, there was no difference between Labour and the Tories. I thought that politics here would polarise and this seems to confirm it.

      The only Tory voters I see having a problem voting Labour are farmers (especially here in Dumfries and Galloway).

      Labour are the instrument used by the establishment to subdue Scotland.

    169. Alex Smith says:

      Grendel- Troll or 77 Brigade stormtrooper?

    170. Papadox says:

      @muttley 79 says. 9:13pm

      “It looks like the Daily Record, the house journal of SLAB, are trying to find damaging stuff on SNP candidates. Will they be doing the same with SLAB? Will they fuck.”

      Torquil and McTernan will be trying to bury all the dirt on the unionist to protect their “good names” so they are very busy boys.

    171. crazycat says:

      @ Tam Jardine

      I don’t think we are any further forward about attendance at the arms dealers’ dinner.

      CAAT confirmed to me that the list and seating plans were being circulated at the event – I’m assuming they were smuggled out by the gate-crashers. They also very diplomatically believe Margaret Curran’s explanation for accidentally accepting and say that if she says she wasn’t there, then she wasn’t.

      The Independent has an article (https://archive.today/4bsSh) mostly about Vince Cable, in which they claim to have contacted other MPs alleged to have been there – but do not report the outcome of that contact. They then link to the same CAAT list of those invited and supposedly attending.

      “Attending” may have been confused with “accepted our invitation” by whoever compiled the list, since it must have been constructed prior to the guests’ arrival.

      I suspect we won’t find out until those who did attend have to declare the perk, which will be some time ahead, possibly after the election.

    172. sinky says:

      I always remember Margo McDonald saying that we should never forget that we are taking on the whole might of the British establishment …..
      and that includes the Labour Party, the Tory Party, big business, the Monarchy,the UK press and the BBC all of which are integral parts of the London / Westminster bubble and our privileged movers and shakers.

    173. Cadogan Enright says:

      @schrodingers cat 8.16

      annoying to hear people saying this now so late in the hour – I was posting this on the 20th last year – did anyone else write to the SNP/Greens pleading with them to see sense.

      Ashcrofts poll put Greens/SSP at 10% in Glasgow NE

      It will grate on me as I canvass for the SNP and pass colleagues in the Greens who could have been canvassing with me

    174. Cadogan Enright says:

      @manandboy 9.33 GRRR

    175. Bill McLean says:

      O/T Does anyone have a link to Gordon Brown telling pensioners they would not get pensions in an independent Scotland?
      Need some info. I remember seeing letters from HMRC saying that all who have paid would get a commensurate pension!

    176. Patrician says:

      @snode1965 and Alex Smith, Grendel has been visiting this site for a long time. He is only giving his viewpoint. And a wee word to the wise, only Stu gets to call people trolls here.

    177. muttley79 says:

      Sinky calls it right. These stories about Mhairi Black in the Daily Rancid have the stench of McTernan, Murphy, and the wee backstabber Dougie Alexander all over them. Sure she said some daft things on Twitter, but they are hardly in the same league as Kathy Wiley. Mhairi is only 20 years old, and we have all said and done some daft things in our time. She will learn from this, but needs the full support of the SNP. SLAB have no vision, no policies, no integrity. It is entirely in fitting with Murphy and his comrades’ modus operandi. Unfortunately, the likes of David Clegg, Marcus Gardham, Poor Old Cochers and co are only too willing to go along with these tactics.

      I get the distinct impression that SLAB are still seething from Rev Stu’s exposure of Kathy Wiley! 😀

    178. If tories in Scotland tactical vote for Labour and say labour won 41 seats, that could see Labour in power at WM. Is a tory going to run the risk of that? I don’t think so.

      Lib Dems might in seats that they do not already hold vote tactically for Labour., but in the seats they currently have an MP they will not vote Labour. The Lib Dems are true arsholes and slimy so its hard to figure what they will do.

      Labour voters are going over to the SNP in good numbers. As for the SGs and the SSP I hope they see sense and lend their vote to the SNP. But if not, it changes nothing I will work for the SNP trying to get my candidate elected in my constituency as should all of the rest of us in your constituency.

      I will still consider the SG and SSP my friends and comrades regardless. Nerxt year I will work with them.

      I found I have 1.6 million friends I never knew I had, who I feel so very close to. That bond will not be broken.

    179. snode1965 says:

      @ crazycat, Mags Curran has apparently deleted her Facebook, opened a new one blocking all previous commentors….admission of guilt?

    180. crazycat says:

      @ snode1965

      Could be! But when I last looked at it, there were negative comments on many other topics too, so I reckon she had plenty of incentive, regardless of her dining habits.

    181. Cadogan Enright says:

      The more Labour types that join YES parties the better – lets have a welcome on the doorstep http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/feb/former-labour-councillor-joins-snp

    182. davidb says:

      How interesting. I wonder if it will be on the front page of any newspapers in Scotland, or lead story on any MOT news program

      http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/06/uk-markets-oil-idUKKBN0LA01Z20150206

    183. Thepnr says:

      @Cadogan Enright

      Exactly, SNP is just the name of a political party. It is the beliefs and policies of parties that really matter.

      United we stand, ect. ect.

    184. manandboy says:

      @ Cadogan Enright 10:03 pm says GRRR

      I guess that means GRRREATTT!! Right on Cad!

      Airdrie’s first SNP MP coming soon

    185. Paula Rose says:

      Went to hear Alex Salmond tonight – he was even better ” in the flesh” than I thought he would be.

      Now it strikes me that a sizeable number of SNP MPs could well pull the Labour party firmly to the left if a minority Labour group wished to run the country.

      If that were to happen then ironically the SNP could well save the Labour Party.

    186. snode1965 says:

      @Patrician, Grendel closed his last post by saying he could no longer support the Airdrie and Shotts branch for unexplained reasons. At Mondays branch meeting a black ops cell was exposed and documented evidence sent to HQ. You do the Math.

    187. Sinky says:

      Pro Nuclear Brian Wilson talking fracking nonsense in Hootsman

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-wilson-holyrood-s-fracking-indecision-1-3682988

    188. Chic McGregor says:

      The missus was there as well Paula. I was dog-watching.

      Hope Mike Weir holds on here, he is a good guy.

    189. Kate says:

      Bill McLean at 10.06 pm
      Telegraph article states that pensioners in Scotland will not get a British pension if the country becomes independent:
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10646056/Gordon-Brown-warns-Scots-independence-means-losing-British-state-pension.html

    190. Patrick Roden says:

      Surely an MP must declare if they receive a gift from a major company, ie margrits meal ticket?

      She will also have a diary, so where does it say she was on the day of this meal?

      I’m sure that in the interest of honesty and to help clear this misunderstanding up, the Labour Party and Margrit will be only too happy to release the appointments in her diary for this day?

      Unless of course we have all been getting the wool pulled over our eyes again, and UK MP’s have found another way to cheat on their expenses, maybe by making some ‘extra’s’ from big companies in the way of expenses paid meetings?

      Looks like another job for the ‘Truth Team’ 🙂

    191. author_al says:

      Bill, he is Gordon spouting off…back in April… http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27106954

    192. Joemcg says:

      There must be at least one eyewitness who can confirm the specky witch was at that dinner surely??

    193. caz-m says:

      I thought I had reached a level with the Daily Record that could not be lowered, but these stories coming out about my SNP candidate, Mhairi Black, has driven it down to an all time low. Alexander getting the Record to do his dirty work.

      I hate the site of the Daily Record, I could never bring myself even to touch one, never mind pick one up and actually read the thing. I’m sure you would catch some kind of exotic disease if you did pick the Record up.

      Editor David Clegg has been instructed by Douglas Alexander to “take care of Mhairi Black.”

      Alexander will stop at nothing to save his seat and London Labour. Just ask his sister Wendy how ruthless he is.

      A man of God ma arse.

    194. scotspine says:

      @joemcg

      She is just embarrassed to confirm she was at the dinner.

      If Murphy had been there, we would all know about it. Anything to do with military power and Israel/US gives him a stauner!

      Well, thats me on Security Services / NSA / CIA watchlist then.

    195. crazycat says:

      @ caz-m

      Was Douglas Alexander not Foreign Secretary for a while prior to the last election? So he really is responsible for harm done to innocent civilians, possibly in their thousands, as opposed to making non-serious comments on twitter (since I also do not read the Record, I’m not sure exactly what she is supposed to have done).

    196. scotspine says:

      Interesting about Jimbo.

      Its usually the case with men who get stauners over military equipment that they are generally inadequate.

      Did Jumbo ever do Military Service whilst in SA? Or did he repatriate before he had to?

      You have to laugh at his feeble attempts at psuedo putinism these days. Photo ops with him in football kit or wearing a Scotland top and stretching out before a run with a female.

      I wonder whether he will turn out bare chested astride a horse or wearing a judo outfit next.

      Big Jim eh? What an utter cock.

    197. crazycat says:

      I’ve just checked and DA was merely a Minister of State at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (which I should have known, I suppose), but as part of the FCO team he’s still culpable in my view.

    198. Aos says:

      Aye, I was disgusted to be told of what the Record was writing about her, appalling gutter journalism of the lowest order. The Record’s always been toxic but this and the sanctioning of arch zealot Torcuil Crichton’s propaganda within its pages is nothing short of a disgrace.

    199. Thepnr says:

      Talking of the arms dinner, I was working in London in 1993 and together with my boss and 2 others had dinner in a posh hotel paid for by a guy from Yorkshire selling paint.

      The guy was an oaf and during the meal actually said “You know, if I could do it all again I’d come back as an arms dealer, the money to be made is fantastic.”

      I said “Why not just come back as a drug dealer? You’ll make just as much many and kill just as many people.”

      It all went quiet after that, we didn’t buy any paint either.

    200. Big Jock says:

      Not only that the Record are stirring up sectarianism. Mhairi is Patrick fan and slagged Celtic! Get a grip that’s what fans do. I have slagged Celtic as a Patrick fan. I am also a catholic and my family are Celtic fans.This stuff is incredibly childish. The worst thing Sturgeon could do is rise to it and sack her. That would represent success for the Record and they would do it again to another candidate. I think there is now a witch hunt and maybe Mhairi should be taking legal advice for defamation of character.

    201. liz says:

      Mhairi Black is the very person that people can relate to.

      I really also hope that the SNP back her all the way.

      The ordinary punter in the street won’t be too upset about a 19yr old talking about ‘sticking the nut’ on people.

      They know it’s just an expression and as for that weasel Alexander, he never says anything which sounds remotely sincere.

    202. AlbertaScot says:

      FYI:
      Just so everyone knows what Stairheid Rammie may or may not have been up at the weapons of mass destruction do the other night, Raytheon is the manufacturer of the Tomahawk cruise missile. This is the delivery “platform” (as the Yanks say) for the Trident nuclear warheads.
      Each one is apparently armed with three of these little beauties although they can be maxed out at a deadly dozen.
      Yup, Maggie Strangelove.

    203. caz-m says:

      scotspine

      Murphy is a “stauner”.

      I have never saw that word wrote down before. The things you learn on Wings. LOL

      Pure dead brilliant!

    204. CameronB Brodie says:

      Know thyne enemy.

      This is a couple of years old, though I doubt if things have changed much.

      This is just a hunch, but I reckon HS2 will have a significant impact on the potential for economic aglomeration between London and Birmingham. I’m not sure if I ‘m sanguine about how this will help democratise the spatial distribution of economic development across the UK. I can’ t see it helping Scotland.

      IMHO, this sounds awfy neo-con. Central gov enhancing it’ s control, whilst shedding it’s financial involvement. This will encourage a further privatisation of our democracy, and appears to depend largely on place marketing, or begger thy neighbour. I’ll need to look and see if Labour would re-build their regional policy, if elected.

      the governance of economic development in england

      http://tinyurl.com/ms4trjl

      Better Together?

    205. Patrician says:

      @snode1965, Sorry, so I do the math and then what? Someone doesn’t like the SNP in Airdrie and Shotts and can’t support them and you found a “black ops” cell, so you automatically put 2 and 2 together and get 5. Even if he was a troll, then first rule of the internet is ignore them.

      I was told by members of the SNP in Airdrie before the referendum that Airdrie would be a No. On the night of the count the tallying did appear to back this up.

      As I said earlier, only one person on this site is allowed to call people trolls and Stu has been quite easy going about it since the referendum.

    206. Paula Rose says:

      Norway has some interesting trolls – ours are rather pathetic.

    207. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve not found any policy statements but I did find this and thought it might help clarify where Gerry Hassan is coming from.

      http://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:vep473tam

    208. Sandra Wilson says:

      I am not sure why, but the behaviour (antics) of Unionist MPs and the media continues to shock me. When will they realise they are not up against a handful of insurgents but 1.6 million of us who see a better way. My focus is to work in my constituency do return an SNP candidate and to help other constituencies in any way I can.

    209. Maxi kerr says:

      What’s hard to understand? The Labour and Tory party are both owned and run by the same people. They are used to give the electorate an impression of choice…when in fact they have NONE with this lot.They have been a (joined at the hip) party for a considerable period of time now, and are really purple politicians with their blue and red mixed policies.Let’s not get fooled again.

    210. Calgacus says:

      @bookie from hell

      Thanks for the podcast,thoroughly enjoyed it. Murphy being described as a very bad actor was very amusing.

    211. CameronB Brodie says:

      The political-economy of Blair’s “New Regional Policy”
      John Harrison

      Abstract

      The “region” and “regional change” have been elusive ideas within political and economic geography, and in essence require a greater understanding of their dynamic characteristics. Trailing in the backwaters of the devolution to the Celtic nations of Britain, the contemporary era of New Labour’s political-economic ideology, manifest through “third-way” governance in England places the region and its functional capacity into the heart of geographical inquiry. Drawing upon a new regionalist epistemology, this paper seeks to recover a sense of (regional) political economy through a critical investigation of the development and formulation of Blair’s “New Regional Policy” (NRP). I address how New Labour has attempted to marry economic regionalisation on the one hand, and democratic regionalism on the other. This paper specifically questions the wisdom of such a marriage of politically distinct ideologies through a critical investigation of the underlying contradictions of their strategy from both a theoretical and empirical standpoint. Demonstrated both in the North East “no” vote in 2004, and in the post-mortem undertaken by the ODPM Select Committee in 2005, the paper illustrates how a loss of political drive gradually undermined the capacity of devolution to deliver in England. Finally, I argue that through the lens of the NRP we can speculate on some of the wider issues and implications for the study of regional governance.

      http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016718506000571?showall%3Dtrue%26via%3Dihub

    212. Husker says:

      A simple message to friends, family and work colleagues in the months to come.

      Labour, the Red Tories, backed by the Tory media.

    213. Big Jock says:

      The Record,Torquall etc are now in full attack mode. Last year they did the same and the yes side played nice and were always on the back foot. Its time we outed these charlatans in the press and started digging the dirt on them. Nice guys always finish last. Its not fair but that’s just how life is. We need to beat them at their own game in the non MSM media. We all know that Mcternan is a cretinous right wing bigot. He will stop at nothing to smear the SNP. We need to get his bigoted views aired somehow to the public. He cannot be allowed to continue this childish venom without being outed himself! They will be doing the dirt on every SNP candidate now. We must nip this in the bud by making those hypocrites sweat and fear the public finding out their histories.

    214. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rev Stu:

      ” … why are most of the Scottish columnists in the right-wing press calling on Scots to vote Labour?”

      Ah! Yes!

      Now what was it again I’ve been saying for years now?
      Ah! Now I remember it’s, “The Establishment wot dun it”.

      The entire history of Britain, for as long as it has been recorded, has seen an elite ruling class striving to control the natives from, (mostly),their elitist base in the south west corner of mainland Britain. – Londinium.

      One ruling class has replaced the other until today and their continued raison d’etre has always been to enslave, as much as possible, those they consider their underlings or slaves. The Westminster Establishment is just the latest reincarnation of that ruling elite. Their sham of fighting each other as political parties will always take second place to maintaining the Establishment.

      History shows the Establishment has always used whatever the current, “Opiate of the Masses”, happened to be at any particular era of history. Ethnicity, religion, nationality, political faction, social status, social class, wealth, Gin & other alcohol, drugs, education and all forms of media, even the invention of the printing press.

      You name it and the establishment has used it to suppress their underlings for those underlings have always represented the Establishments tools to reach their prime ambition of gaining more wealth and power. In short we are the main tools of their trade. The establishments powers are only limited by how much they need the underlings to generate their wealth.

      We were slaves when we had no powers to fight back and we reached the nearest ever to equality when our labour and skills were in greatest demand to make them wealthy. That situation was never going to be allowed to continue and the advent of assembly lines began the erosion of, “The Working Class”. That was when the status of, “The Tradesman”, and the Trade Unions had the power to halt the progress of the Establishments power.

      Then came, “Automation”, and, “Robotics”, and now the Establishment does not need us to keep them as the elite rulers. Hence the ever widening gap between the haves and the have nots. Now we see the truth of the matter – no matter which party gains power at Westminster the truth stands stark for those who care to see.

      They are all cut from the same bolt of cloth – Private pre-school, private prep-school, Eton, Harrow or the like and then Oxbridge and into politics as they join the Establishment. It doesn’t really matter which party they join for it is just the latest version of the Establishment.

      Now, faced by the Scottish threat to finish their grasp on the United Kingdom, the Establishment closes ranks and stand shoulder to shoulder to fight the common enemy that seeks to end the current Establishment. If you think I’m wrong consider this. The Royals and Aristocracy are still here. There are still hereditary Peers, Law Lords and CofE bishops in the HOL. These are hereditary examples of the old Feudal System. Remember too that it was the North, South West, and Welsh Britons who stood firm against the Romans and they, (the Romans), never invaded Ireland either.

      It is not surprising therefore that the present threat to the establishment comes from those geographic areas most recently to fall under the Establishment’s powers. The quote of, “We’re not genetically programmed in Scotlandshire to make political decisions”, takes on a quite different slant now.

    215. Grendel says:

      Thanks Patrician @ 0156
      Ronnie Anderson knows me and will vouch that I’m not a troll here.
      I have issues that I’ve raised with SNP HQ. Until they are resolved I’ll not be campaigning for the SNP in Airdrie.
      I’m 100% committed to an independent Scotland, but commitment does not mean blind obedience or unquestioning loyalty. I’m not one for eating my cereal.

    216. Big Jock says:

      Robert I am sure the Brits did the same in India against Ghaindi. He was seen as an insurgent terrorist by the British. Funny how history paints a different picture of oppression, and bondage in that era. The establishment are aghast and that includes the media. Their god given right to own Scotland is being challenged. They are manning the barricades and forming a circle like General Custard. They cannot stop independence, they can only delay the death of the United Kingdom.

    217. Big Jock says:

      Grendel its fine having principles. However there is a time for principles and a time for a united front. Surely you can lend your vote to the SNP to keep Labour out of a tight ward. This is bigger than the individual. Every seat Labour hold is a defeat for Scotland.

    218. Robert Peffers says:

      @big_al says: 6 February, 2015 at 1:38 pm:

      “Deans: Why not therefore help Labour and at the same time hinder the SNP? Better a Labour MP than one who wants to break up our country.

      WTF is wrong with these people?

      You hit the nail, Big Al, but missed driving it all the way home. What is wrong with those people is quite clear from that wee bit that says, “Better a Labour MP than one who wants to break up our country”. That is because they are claiming the United Kingdom, (it calls itself a Kingdom), is their country. The United Kingdom is NOT a country. It is four countries and while British it is not Britain. That’s their mistake and could be their downfall if people who want independence would just pull them up every time they made such lying claims.

      The very worst offender is Cameron who constantly claims to be, “The British”, Prime Minister, to head, “The British”, government and to send, “British”, Troops to die in foreign wars. I’m sick of independence supporters repeating this blatant propaganda for the Unionist Establishment.

    219. Bill McLean says:

      Kate, author_al and liz – thanks for the info!

    220. David says:

      @ Robert Peffers, that’s a very good comment you made at 11:47, nice one!

    221. MrObycyek says:

      New Labour and the Tories are two cheeks of the same bum and it is high time that that bum was well and truly booted.

    222. Robert Peffers says:

      Diane says: 6 February, 2015 at 2:14 pm:

      “Seems the “grand coalition” has already been formed before the vote has even been held.”

      Yes Diane, that, “Grand Coalition”, was formed at least as far back as when the Romans first landed in Britain and became the first, (historically recorded), British Elite Ruling “ESTABLISHMENT”.

      The names and original nationalities have changed ever since but an elite ruling class has run South Britain ever since and has always sought to rule over all Britain too. Taking first Wales in 1284, (Statute of Rhuddlan), then Ireland in 1542, (Crown of Ireland Act), but never actually legally annexing Scotland. They had though, thought they did since 1706/7. What they actually did that day was enter into a legal bipartite union with an equally sovereign Kingdom and thus formed a United Kingdom.

      They have ever since sought to fool themselves, (and everyone else), that the Treaty of Union was an English Kingdom takeover of Scotland. (and to Scotland’s shame we allowed them to get away with it). Always, though, by the aid of Scottish born collaborators. Myself I prefer ("Tractor" - Ed)s as the term to use for them.

      However, things took a strange turn when the Westminster Establishment made their latest attempt to legally subjugate the people of Scotland. This was with the introduction of, “Devolution”, that purported to devolve, “UNITED KINGDOM” powers to all four United Kingdom countries. However, this was an error in several ways that they hoped we would not notice. First of all the United Kingdom is a Kingdom, or Royal Realm, it is not a country. Second it is a bipartite union of equally sovereign Kingdoms. In no way could it thus be legally split as a quadratic union of countries. Being a union of Kingdoms it can only be split as kingdom but doing that does NOT leave behind an rUnited Kingdom. The legal result of a partner leaving a bipartite Union is to disunite the Union. That was never their plan.

      Their most serious error though was to retain the United Kingdom Parliament as also the Parliament of the country of England without there being anyone elected as Parliament of England Members. Thus the United Kingdom Parliament became the de facto parliament of England with the United Kingdom Members elected from England as unelected members of the parliament of England. With 533 English to 117 others they hoped to force it through – and they did. Remember many of that 117 are actually unionists.

      That has thus effectively become the Parliament of the Country of England devolving English Powers to the Scots, Welsh and N. Irish. If you ever had doubts then consider the claim of the only Tory MP from Scotland, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”.(Said by David Mundell Tory MP).

      Hopefully that explanation may clarify the matter for you.

    223. Robert Peffers says:

      @manandboy says:6 February, 2015 at 2:15 pm:

      “All that time at Eton and Oxbridge and the like,
      to emerge just tribal animals
      living by the need for self-preservation.”

      Aye! manandboy, have a look at this Mail article : –

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2407406/Move-Boris–Bullingdon-Club-2013.html

    224. Robert Peffers says:

      @arthur thomson says:6 February, 2015 at 2:15 pm:

      ” … I am a Scot not a Brit …”.

      So, Arthur, when did Scotland leave Britain?

      You are, whether you like it or not, a Scottish, British, United Kingdom and The EU citizen. Furthermore if a Scot you are also ethnically British. If Scotland were to leave the United Kingdom, (which is legally a bipartite union of Kingdoms and NOT a country). Then Scotland would still be part of Britain and thus you would remain British.

      Those are all incontrovertible facts. What you perhaps meant was you do not feel part of the United Kingdom for nothing can stop or prevent you from being Scottish, British and European.

      I’ll put that another way – The United Kingdom, while British, is only one part of eight other British countries and contains just four of those British countries. I’ll name all eight for you.
      Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Bailiwick of Jersey, Bailiwick of Guernsey, Isle of Man – There is another one called England but they think they are the rUnited Kingdom. They are neither the UK nor the rUK.

      But the GE is not about leaving the Union, it is about finding ways to make Scotland a better place for our people. It is about us engaging constructively and intelligently with UK politics to defeat the warmongers, poverty makers and anti-democratic elements within the UK who damage the lives of our people. That is the message we need to get across to the common five eighths of the Scottish electorate. That I think is exactly what the SNP is trying to do and we need to support them in that.

    225. Robert Peffers says:

      @jackie g says: 6 February, 2015 at 2:26 pm:

      “Another one has come over from the dark side. Ex-Labour councillor joins SNP.

      Aye! Jackie g, and unless my usually excellent memory is wrong, “Stephen Dornan left Scottish Labour in 2012 and was later re-elected as an independent councillor for the Govan ward under the Glasgow First banner”, after London Labour Headquarters sent their Man From London to Glasgow and forced the London Labour in Scotland Branch Office constituency associations to reject sitting councillors in favour of London Labour chosen candidates.

      The surprising thing is it has taken him so long to jump ship. I may just be cynical that he had hoped to remain in the trough as an independent but now thinks an SNP candidate will oust him in the next council elections, but I’ll give him benefit of doubt.

    226. Robert Peffers says:

      @:Cyril Matvech says:6 February, 2015 at 2:27 pm:

      ” … Vote Labour, get Pro-Labour Party policies first and Pro-Scottish representation some time later!”

      It could be worse, Matvech, we could get Red Tory policy instead of Blue Tory Policy.

      “The Labour campaign to block the election of Alex Salmond as an MP exposes Labour Party’s own fears of a mass of SNP MPs smashing Labour’s comfort zone in Westminster …”

      More than likely it is that the whole party politics of Westminster is the myth of there being real differences between the several different Westminster flavours of the basic Establishment to occupy the Government benches at Westminster since there was a parliament at Westminster.

      Westminster, as a whole, is fighting now to maintain the grip of the Establishment of the elite upon the United Kingdom. No matter what flavour of party actually occupy the government benches. Like the referendum campaign the Establishment closes ranks when the establishment is under threat.

    227. schrodingers cat says:

      Cadogan Enright says:
      @schrodingers cat 8.16

      “annoying to hear people saying this now so late in the hour – I was posting this on the 20th last year – did anyone else write to the SNP/Greens pleading with them to see sense”
      A tad unfair Cad, i pleaded with the ssp/sg to not stand candidates on this forum and elsewhere, (have either produced a manifesto for the ge supporting indepencence?)

      It is academic now, all we can hope for now is that they do not split the vote in any constituency.

    228. Robert Peffers says:

      @Raymond reid says: 6 February, 2015 at 2:30 pm

      “… the rulers in England do not govern equally for all parts of the UK, …”

      Bang on the money, Raymond and, as I’ve pointed out many times before, this inequality, became much, much worse after those smart arses of the Westminster Establishment became overly confident and assumed they could treat the Scots electorate with utter contempt and try to work a confidence trick on our nation.

      They, The Labour wing of the Establishment, thought to con us by introducing Devolution. Now the basic idea of devolving, United Kingdom powers to Scotland was a sound and legally correct idea. This because the very title, “United Kingdom”, describes the reality that the UK is indeed a union of two kingdoms. However, the Establishment chose to divide the bipartite United Kingdom along the lines of four countries but worse to retain the United Kingdom Parliament to double up as the Country of England’s Parliament.

      What that achieved with the votes of 533 English Members, (and several more of the Welsh, Northern Irish and a majority of Scottish Labour, Tory and Lib Dem members), was to make devolution the de facto parliament of the country of England devolving English powers to the rest of the, now so called, United Kingdom. Of course it doesn’t stop there for the Country of England is run as the United Kingdom, funded as the United Kingdom and thus needs no Block grants as decided by the de facto parliament of England.

      The Establishment has managed to do what centuries of English military might failed to achieve. See England make Scotland an English colony.

    229. Robert Peffers says:

      @Chris kilby says:6 February, 2015 at 2:34 pm:

      “Who will rid them of us turbulent Scots…?

      Not who, Chris, What – and the answer is millions of two wee strokes of a pencil like this,
      “X”

    230. Robert Peffers says:

      @DaveyM says: 6 February, 2015 at 2:41 pm:

      … who’s on whose side.

      Dunnow! DaveyM, bit thir’s been a guid puckle wheen O Unionist MPs ower damned lang oan thir ain backside.

    231. Robert Peffers says:

      @One_Scot says: 6 February, 2015 at 2:50 pm:

      ” … Better Together campaign was essentially making the case that Britain could only exist …

      I take it you mean the UK can only exist

      … if Labour and the Tories were happy for everyone to know that they had really become one party”

      Nah! the Establishment remains, as always, different parties but all together as the Establishment. That also includes the Royalty, English Aristocracy, Law Lords, CofE Bishops, Civil Service, Security Services, Armed Forces upper echelons, most of the media, the educational institutions and Financial Services.

      “Scotland has no place in this morally corrupt political system. The only way we can have any chance of saving Scotland is by voting for as many SNP MPs as possible in May.

      Amen to that! One Scot.

    232. Robert Peffers says:

      @snode1965 says:6 February, 2015 at 11:11 pm:

      “”Grendel closed his last post by saying he could no longer support the Airdrie and Shotts branch for unexplained reasons. At Mondays branch meeting a black ops cell was exposed and documented evidence sent to HQ. You do the Math.

      No need to do maths – quite simply Grendel has no idea of how the SNP, as a party, works. Policy in the party is made bottom up. Nothing can become policy unless by the majority vote by delegates at National Conference. Now I’m well aware that these delegates, (Note what the word means), are often required to decide how to vote after the matter has been debated and can thus change their intended vote. However, as person’s delegated to conference by their branch they then have to return to the branch and explain their actions.

      This is totally different to all other parties who not only do not have one person one vote policies but also are top down where the leader makes the policy and the party does as its told, (called Toeing/towing the Party Line),and the party whips making sure the do.

      Grendel having issues with the party means he thinks and acts unlike party members who all have their own opinions and all have the right to voice that opinion but, after conference decides, they know it is the will of the membership’s wish and not that of the party hierarchy and they follow the democratic decisions. Grendel has his own opinions but rails against the party not against the democratic wishes of the membership. (I hope I’ve explained that clearly as it seems to confuse some folks).

    233. Effijy says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      7 February, 2015 at 2:16 pm
      @arthur thomson says:6 February, 2015 at 2:15 pm:

      ” … I am a Scot not a Brit …”.

      It is about us engaging constructively and intelligently with UK politics

      The angst that we find ourselves is with 45 years of trying to find a representative who doesn’t put themselves and their party before the people of Scotland. The vast majority of Scots have thought themselves to be left of centre, and tried to support the party they felt took up this position. Since the Scots voted labour in 1970, 79, 82, 87, 92, qnd 2010, they got a Tory government who treats them with contempt as they recognise that the country will have nothing to do with their Southern Greed is good manifesto. In another twist of fate, Scots voting for a Left wing Labour found themselves with Tony Blair’s imitation
      of the Tory party, where again, it’s all about the government
      representatives and power brokers continuing their eternal quest to widen the gaps between rich and poor.

      There’s the rub, we tried to engage Westminster with proposals for a fair and just Scotland, but we are drowned out by the cacophony of cash hitting the corporate vaults.

      Yes we must maximize our representation at Westminster, but after 2 generations of trying, we do need to realise the Southern beast
      has no tract to the heart of Scotland.

      All small steps taken are toward controlling our own destiny.

    234. Grendel says:

      Thank you Robert Feffers for explaining my thoughts. Unfortunately you are wrong in just about every respect.
      This is nothing about conference or policy.

    235. Will Podmore says:

      The answer to the ‘rev”s question is that the capitalist class is in two minds. Cameron, being a totally unprincipled person, would even sacrifice the unity of Britain to keep his gang in power. The columnists cited realise that splitting Britain would be bad for the whole British people. Only Cameron, his gang and the EU would gain from a split.
      Almost as many Scots voted Conservative and Lib Dem in 2010 (878,000) as voted Labour (1.03m). If deployed efficiently against the SNP (just 491,000 five years ago) they could make a substantial difference to the outcome of this May’s election. And voting Labour would also minimise the risk of yet another disastrous Tory government.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top