The definition of pyrrhic
We got fooled like big old chumps earlier this afternoon. Scottish Labour apparatchik and former “Better Together” director Blair McDougall posted a series of tweets about whether the party who wins the most seats in a Westminster election gets to form the government, which sounded exactly like the ones Scottish Labour have been posting for the last few weeks before they were exposed as being nonsense.
The big comedy reveal was that they turned out to have been said by Alex Salmond in 2007, talking about the Holyrood election of that year which the SNP won.
It was a bona fide zinger. So what point did the cunning prank prove?
Scottish Parliament elections are conducted under a fundamentally different electoral system which was explicitly designed (by Labour) not to give any one party a majority of seats. The entire point of the system is to make most governments coalitions, but as a proportional parliament it also gives some extra moral weight to the party that gets most seats, because they earned their advantage fairly.
(In contrast, a Westminster election can give a party absolute power on a pretty small minority of the vote. Labour’s winning 35% share in 2005 was only fractionally higher than the SNP’s 33% in 2007, but Tony Blair got a whopping 66-seat majority for his votes whereas Alex Salmond secured barely over a third of Holyrood’s chamber.)
Salmond didn’t say that the right of the biggest party to form a government was a “FACT” – unlike Labour – but he certainly expressed the view that it was the proper way to go about things in 2007.
(In that year a Labour/Lib Dem coalition would still have commanded fewer than half of the seats in the chamber, so they couldn’t have won a vote to form a government unless the Tories backed them too, which would have been unlikely to go down well with the electorate as a whole, and especially not Labour voters.)
Labour have gleefully seized on the comments, and on people falling for the sting. But the curious thing is that even if these particular quotes are Salmond’s, they still represent Labour’s official position today – hence the “#VoteSNPgetTories” hashtag on all of McDougall’s tweets.
So the end result of the elaborate prank is the sight of Blair McDougall ridiculing his own party’s claims – because even if Salmond was wrong in 2007, all that means is that Labour are wrong too, but in 2015.
(In fact they’re even MORE wrong, because they claimed it as “a simple fact” rather than merely an opinion, and it’s empirically untrue – in the UK government’s Cabinet Manual it’s expressly stated that the incumbent government, NOT the biggest party, gets the first shot at forming an administration. Holyrood has no such rule.)
What the casual viewer will most likely infer is that Labour haven’t learned anything in eight years, whereas at least the SNP aren’t making the mistake any more.
But what we really don’t get is why Labour seemingly think such school-bus japery is a sensible use of their time when they’re still staring at a near-total electoral wipeout.
They can snigger about scoring a point on Twitter, but we’re not sure that too many voters will be won back to Labour’s cause by the message “We’ve been telling you a load of old cobblers because we think you’re mugs, but Salmond said something quite similar (in different circumstances) nearly a decade ago! Nyer nyer nyer! PS We’re still telling you the same cobblers, because we still think you’re mugs.”
(Quite apart from anything else, Alex Salmond isn’t the leader of the SNP any more, so his views on anything have never been less relevant than they are now.)
The arrogant mockery of opponents can work well if you’re riding high, but when you’re trailing by 20 points in the polls with two and a half months to go it’s an odd priority.
Indeed, all Scottish Labour is really doing is drawing attention to an issue about which they’re demonstrably and unarguably lying to the Scottish public. If we were them, we might have wanted to draw a veil over that as quietly as possible, rather than drag it up again just as it was dying down.
Did he play Billy Bunter in a previous existence?
Stephen.
Hope not fear. If only Scottish Labour could give us a reason as to why we should vote FOR them and not why we shouldn’t vote for someone else (We still wouldn’t vote for them). Cowardly tactics from a group with a complete lack of vision…
The more desperate they become, the more lies the will tell. The bigger the lie the better. They are truly getting desperate now.
We must be doing something right.
Stephen.
today’s Herald carries an article on Page 2, with Jim Murphy stating that since before WW2 the largest party has formed the government and the more seats SNP gain from Labour the more likely it is the Tories will get into government “through the back door”.
(I know, I shouldn’t be buying it *hangs head in shame*)
As usual it’s the politics of the school playground
by ‘Scottish’ Labour.
Apologies to schoolchildren across the country
whether attending tax subsidised ones or the ones
where Labour think free dinners are bad.
Right now I fail to see what Labour (Scottish in this case, whatever that means) is bringing to any table it even passes by. They could not pick from a choice of ham or egg sandwiches without getting it wrong and confusing others as to the quality of the tuna, not on offer.
It STILL worries me this seeming ineptitude, despite vast party donations, media training, spin doctors. It worries me because it defies realistic belief and the odds of probability.
It worries me more still that EddyBear may well be PM, and running the UK, but yet cannot muster eptness/eptitude in his cotillion North of Berwick..(I cannot speak but have concerns as to the epitude of Labour candidates South of Berwick too, given we Scots are not fiel by nature). I only hope that Nicola – and Eck – are the guiding hands of competence in terms of any prospective Govt.
The real problem for Labour seems different to me. In 2007 Salmond was presumably talking about a party which actually was the biggest party in Holyrood.
What labour are talking about is a situation where they are NOT the biggest party. The question only arises if they have fewer seats/votes than the tories.
Clearly what they are trying to achieve is enough Scottish seats to ensure they are the biggest party in the Westminster parliament. But that is by no means certain even if they retain every Scottish seat they currently hold: as we can easily see by looking at Westminster right now.
None of this depends on Scottish votes, in reality. It depends on the outcome in rUK.
They do indeed claim the biggest party should get first crack, though that is not at all the constitutional position. But since they infer that they will not be the biggest party they have no cause for complaint at all
They do seem to think that we, the voters, do not see any significant difference between the SNP and labour, and so will vote labour if that gives us even a chance of keeping the tories out.
Speaking as someone who used to vote labour, I am here for to tell them that I see no significant difference between the tories and labour: and I do not vote tory, whatever they call themselves.
I have never been convinced by those, famously David Aaronovitch and Polly Toynbee, who have repeatedly acknowledged my problem but urge me to hold my nose and vote labour as the lesser of two evils. That is the same as saying I should vote for the party with the policy of murdering the second born on the grounds that not every family has two children so fewer will die if I vote for them rather than the party which pledges to murder the first born. Why would I do that unless there was no alternative? And there is an alternative. So, no thanks. I won’t vote for either of them, if it is all the same to you.
Big difference is tactical voting.
Many people are deliberately voting for a situation where SNP has influence in a hung parliament.
To be fair to the troll, I don’t think he’s saying that Alex Salmond was wrong in 2007. I think he’s saying that Jim Murphy is right now, and that 2007 Alex Salmond agreed with Jim Murphy. I think the most pertinent point is the fact that Holyrood (being substantially PR) and Westminster (FPTP) are fundamentally different constitutional set-ups. That is to say, Alex Salmon was right in 2007 and Jim Murphy is wrong now.
Also, perhaps I am misremembering, but didn’t Labour back in 2007 and 2010 want to prevent the largest parties from forming the government? So the troll is both wrong and hypocritical.
Tories can’t claim any sort of moral authority if Scots vote SNP instead of Labour, because the majority of these seats would otherwise be Labour wins.
But Scots would prefer not to be ignored for 5 years.
SNP is the insurance policy.
Flair Mc Nostril:
Eat a Pie Tell a Lie
Bloat McNostril till you Die!
How do these guys live with themselves.
Lying to people having to use food banks while in full time employment.
Agreeing that the Bedroom Tax is a good thing knowing that
81% of those it hurts are Disabled.
Telling Pensioners they get no more money if they leave Westminster.
Telling those waiting for transplants that Scotland would be cut
off from any waiting lists.
What type of person puts the price of over eating before country?
Looks like they don’t know the difference between First-Past-the-Post and Proportional Representation.
Worrying in a political party!
Is Holyrood subject to the same rules from the Cabinet manual as WM? The previous cabinet manual snippets do expressly mention WM as having the rule of the incumbents getting first dibs.
Because, you know, it is important for such a “trap” to work that it actually has to be a trap.
I would like to think that the incumbent administration and the associated mass of Civil servants of Holyrood in 2007 would have thought of making sure that it was indeed the case.
I don’t recall any mention of Wendy/Iain/Johann/Jack/whichever clown was driving the bus issuing a release to their pals in the media to put Eck down over his statements. And it’s not like they don’t have form in doing that anyway!
I equally don’t recall that cretinous ogre of a sore loser in Downing Street wading in as he is so wont to do and reminding us all of the rules.
I think there are only two rules this bunch can follow:
1) Make it up as you go along
2) Last person in the driver’s seat gets to keep the steering wheel when it comes off
Two and a half months to go and they are fooling about on Twitter, can’t wait to see what they do in April 1st.
Labour in Scotland, not for much longer.
@Blair McDougall….. Paaaaaaaarrrrrrpppppp! (Out of tune of course)
Blair ‘Fats’ McDee “You said I’m funny. How the fuck am I funny? Do you mean funny like a clown? What the fuck is so funny about me?
Tommy DiVito in ‘Goodfellas.’
As for mobster Fats McDee…
https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2014/06/02/the-south-city-mob/
O/T Rev, I do apologise profoundly, but I thought you might like to read, Peter Osborne, and his candid account, of the demise of the Telegraph newspaper.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne/why-i-have-resigned-from-telegraph
Once again apologise for straying off-topic.
The strangest thing is how it never crossed his mind that we would turn round and say “Well, Alex was wrong then, just like you’re still wrong now”. As if we’d spring up and say “Oh no! ALEX SALMOND said it, so it must be the truth! There’s no way of reflecting on it or verifying it externally, so we must believe his words!”
The idea that we can’t come to our own conclusions based on how the real world works, but blindly accept something said by a party leader to the TV or press? Projection, much, Blair?
Wow, they must really be worried about Wings if they are deliberately trying to trip you up.
Childcare is an issue and the BBC hint darkly that it was a central plank in the YES campaign.
We did not win the referendum so the two way equation of fiscal reward for increased child care did not happen.
Notwithstanding this the SNP Government have managed to increase childcare to 600 hours .
The NHS staff are insulted,the police are insulted ,teachers are insulted and now the intelligence of parents is insulted.
Voters are no daft!
Please don’t underestimate the labour party. They have much of the print media lined up behind them and of course perhaps their biggest weapon – the BBC in Scotland.
They are throwing everything in to the mix in the hope that they win people back ( and/or stop the surge to SNP) in little increments. That is, a small number of people liking different bits of what they claim with the SNP not getting the coverage to refute immediately if at all what they say.
They are also hoping that just one topic that they throw in to the mix just might be the one that rings a substantial bell to waverers.
Remember too, as has been said on here before the swing required to win many of these labour seats is substantial and many will be saved if Labour somehow steady their ship.
I know I don’t really need to say it on this site but complacency or carelessness must be avoided at all costs.
My apologies for preaching to the converted.
Driving home tonight I was thinking…
“Will all these soon to be rejected SLab junkies (aka politicians) join George Galloway in the Respect Party on May 8th?”
And let’s be clear, these Labour Guys & Gals in Scotland need to learn some respect.
Time to get your cat suit out wee Dougie, and don’t forget the floppy hat too.
Assuming Salmond did say what the refugee from the tuck shop maintains, the Rev’s analysis of the statements make perfect sense. As discussed context is everything.
One thing I’m sure of is, is that he didn’t repeat it four ways in less than an a couple of hour like some tautological parrot.
What I fail to see is the reasoning behind making the claim that the largest party going on to form a government is somehow “getting in by the back door”. Are they expecting people to believe that that is in some way unfair?
2 anti SNP /Scottish gov. To open on Reporting North Britain.
Police stop &search and child care .So even without bird &Bradford
No let up from the broadcasting arm of the London Labour branch office.
PS How annoying that certain people cannot pronounce SCOT LAND.
And continuously say Sco land (as in go)
I see that I think this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYHci_KYIT4
The problem is that Labour have never had to campaign before in Scotland. They still believe that they can play games on social media and have their buddies in the MSM push their story every day.
Murphy/McDougall et al remain convinced that the old conditioning will kick in and the hordes will stroll through to the polling booth and save them.
they should look at the facts of holyrood and westminster voting. It is obvious a very large section of the electorate have been voting Labour for Westminster and SNP for Holyrood. The number of “Traditional Labour” voters switching to the SNP at some point has grown steadily.
The Referendum led to a significant part of the “Labour vote” voting YES (Thank You!)
I think Labour underestimates these voters – they are not sheep. They have demonstrated the ability to adapt their vote as appropriate.
I hope that this May they conclude that an SNP team at Westminster will meet their requirements in the same way that it serves them at Holyrood.
To those voters – listen to Nicola on austerity cuts and compare it to Labours support of more austerity cuts.
The Labour Party values of Jim Murphy are close to Maggie Thatcher and a million miles from the Labour Party of just 40 years ago.
If they talk like Tories, If they vote like Tories, If they go to War like Tories,If they chase the boardroom like Tories, If they seek the Lords like Tories, If they fiddle like Tories then they are Tories.
Kick out the RED Tories
A Yes voter sadly died and of course went to Heaven. As he stood in front of the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him. He asked, ‘What are all those clocks?’
St. Peter answered, ‘Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone who has ever been on earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie, the hands on your clock move.’
… ‘Oh’, said the man. ‘Whose clock is that?’
‘That’s Mother Teresa’s’, replied St. Peter. ‘The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie.’
‘Incredible’, …said the Yes voter. ‘And whose clock is that one?’
St. Peter responded, ‘That’s Abraham Lincoln’s clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abraham told only two lies in his entire life.’
‘Just out of interest where’s the clock for the Jim Murphy’ asked the Yes voter.
St Peter replied, ‘We’re using it as a ceiling fan.
Just Watched BITTER LAKE on BBC iPlayer (yes I know).
I’m astounded at the conniving of Governments. It has certainly brought into focus the simplistic messages that we are sent by politicians. As I heard on Newshaft this afternoon, Vote Plaid get DUP. Vote anything here get war in the middle east.
Nice one Blair! I think its fair enough for him to have a bit of fun after Wings has helped destroy so much of Scottish Labour’s credibility… if I’m honest it is the first time I’ve had any respect for the guy.
Other than that, what Stu said.
I wouldnt say he fooled you,more like he tricked you.
If he used quotation marks like he was meant to you would’ve stopped and questioned where they were from.
as it was,he deliberately removed them to make out that he was saying it.
The pettiness of the london labour in Scotland beggars belief. With the amount of serious shit going on not just in uk but the world this mob can only come up with minor point scoring and (un)sound bites. The end of labour cant come quick enough.
Another glimpse at the future.
http://rt.com/uk/233863-pay-to-protest-outrage/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
Labour in Scotland must have a lot of time on their hands if their first priority is dreaming up wee wheezes to troll on sites like WOS. They must be very confident of winning in May.
You have to admit, Rev – and I think you already did in your 3pm edit – that that was quite a masterful sting McDougall pulled off. So kudos to him for a clever piece of Twitter campaigning – fair play, you had us there.
As to the point of all this, obviously Labour are trying to counter the long-stated strategy of post-indy Yes to send as many SNP MPs south on May 8th as possible. The #VoteSNPgetTory messaging may be utter bollocks when you look at the facts, but it has a veneer of plausibility to the uninitiated. Obviously this was what Labour was counting on.
But this isn’t happening in isolation. In parallel they manufactured an A&E “crisis”, and have been haranguing the SNP on every devolved public service power that they can get statistics on (even if those statistics demonstrably show an improvement since the SNP took office – it’s all about the spin).
The point of all this smoke and mirrors nonsense is to move the talking points off the big picture things like austerity, foodbanks, nukes etc etc and to monopolise as much media coverage as possible whilst distancing themselves from the toxic indyref Tory association. At this stage, I don’t think SLAB are trying to win the election; they are engaged in damage limitation and trying to prevent total annihilation.
We’ll see – we’re still in the ‘phoney war’ stages of the campaign. But that may come to an end tonight with Nicola’s long-scheduled appearance on Question Time. I suspect – hope – that she may kick off the SNP campaign proper.
I’m quite flattered that the official Labour team would want to troll us 🙂
That is a win in itself.
If Labour crashes and burns in England and needs all the Scottish seats to enure they are just the largest party then who will they partner with? Cut it whatever way they like, Labour have to win in England. If they do the Tories are not going to be in charge regardless of what happens in Scotland. If they lose in England then a whole can of worms opens up.
Jings, they must be celebrating like mad at this huge win over wings.
It’s a bit like celebrating winning a corner when your getting beat 6-0 with 5 mins left on the clock.
This is all very gratifying for cybernat central – but wtf are they doing to convince their support that actually votes to do so – not a lot, correction – nothing.
Is it just me, or is there a definite look of anticipation for a shot on the tyre swing at Halloween headquarters?
Gary
Stu, I salute you. Fatso will soon be just an unemployable cock.
A jolly jape thats just exploded a barrel full of excrement in their smug , though frightened faces. Let them eat shit.
Can someone please tell me of what use the Labour party now are?
Who do they purport to represent, what are their policies?
How many are millionaires and how many are representing private healthcare companies for a wedge?
I’d really like to know.
It’s really quite clever thinking…….
Wait for everyone to criticise the tweets then spring the trap that the ex leader of the SNP actually said them…….
It would have been absolute genius if they were talking about the same electoral system and the current leader but hey…… That’s only semantics ……..
It only proves that they are at the bottom of the hole and haven’t stopped digging.
It either never dawned on him that the two processes worked differently, therefore rendering the comments irrelevant. Or, it did, and he hoped people wouldn’t notice.
A thinly veiled attempt to restore some pride after being slaughtered on the facts.
They can’t even troll properly.
Many people pay no attention to policy or even think about economics they just know what they like, so they pick the leader or those with the highest profile decide for or against and then vote
Thats what made the Labour party come out with Breakfast Woman advert during the referendum
Problem was with that one people were wising up by then and thanks to sites like Wings, were insulted quicker
Therein lies Labours big flaw, folk got smarter,
To go back to my first point about profile and i include personality in this
Have you ever been in a room or hall when Nicola Sturgeon walks in, these days, she sparkles and the place is filled with energy and confidence and you can’t help but like her
She is a little star
And that’s a votewinner right there
Without trying to be condescending woman
OK music swelling up Saltire swaying gently in the breeze
Unless I’m mistaken being in “pole position” does not entitle one to win? It merely offers as lightly a better chance. That said I’m sure the Tory voters in England will be about as furious when SNP MPs hold the balance of power & use it to fight for Scotland as we are when Labour MPs elected in Scotland are whipped into voting for whats best for the important home county vote.
Bugger Blair.
Just read the Bio on Emma Harper our candidate for Dumfriesshire.
1. is a Nurse(30 years) (Box Ticked)
2. Grew up on a farm (Box Ticked)
3. Passionate about promoting S Scotland (Box Ticked)
Mundell better get a Panda suit fur Edinburgh Zoo. As I hope it will be the only job he gets in Scotland after May
This is really simple. If SNP gain a majority of Scottish seats, then it demonstartes two issues for Westminster to contemplate:
1) Scottish voters are unhappy with Westminster and think that SNP can represent them better than a unionist party.
2) They like the general thrust of SNP policies as distinct from the unionist parties.
Either way, the UK government is going to have to recognise that it needs fixing. If it dismisses it as a Scottish whinge, then it risks indyref 2.
Its a nasty trick and context is all as they know full well. Other trying to make a fool of people, where’s their political gain here. Anyway its dead easy to get caught by Bliar MacHugearse and co as his tweets here are no different from anything else he farts out in context. Still bakers dozen Griegs lattice pork pies all round tonight lads!
What I found to be interesting is that lots of people were willing to belive it was labour, what it does do though is makes it even more difficult for labour to pull the wool over their opponents eyes again, now everything will be even more closely monitored. I think you may have played this trick a little early in the campaign.
O/T – Just a wee reminder for those that may have forgotten but Ms Sturgeon is on Question Time tonight!
#VoteMilibandGetRedTories
I’m sorry that this is OT but I’ve had this thought for a while now and I don’t think it will ever be particularly on topic. It may be utterly a creation of my fevered imagination. I’m starting to wonder if the hapless SLab triumvirate of McDougall, Murphy and McTernan are trying, in their own hamfisted, moronic way, to implement the methods of Vladislav Surkov, Putin’s spin doctor.
Now, hear me out. I only know as much about Surkov as I saw on Charlie Brooker the other week but the main thing I took from Adam Curtis’ short on him was that Surkov constantly changes the terms of a given debate, morphing policy pronouncements from one day to the next to bamboozle the opposition and does so with the connivance of a fawning media. Sound like anyone?
I am not suggesting that the Scottish media has arrived at the point where it can be fairly called ‘unfree’ like the Russian media but elements of that drift did become apparent to many people in the course of the indyref. And Surkov’s approach is very successful – Curtis suggests that George Osborne is the UK’s leading proponent.
I do concede, I know a lot of the agenda changing has been a result of having holes blown in their pronouncements so maybe this is just a case of me having too much time on my hands!
For once I agree with Thepnr – what is the point of an outpost of the Labour Party in Scotland? There is only one party that encapsulates the social, economic and etc (angry Paula) policies that a Labour (shudder) supporter should vote for in this next election and that is the SNP.
ComRes Poll : Feb13
—————————–
Q. Thinking about how you will decide which party to vote for at the General Election on May the 7th, which of the following is the most important reason why you will choose to vote for a particular Party?
Most popular answer
The Party with the best policies on issues important to me = 66%
Least popular answer
The Party that has the best chance of beating another Party that I don’t like = 5%
It’s funny because it proves that ‘Billy Bunter’ McDougal is wasting his and Labour’s time on a pitiful 5% strategy while ‘scottish’ Labour are being annihilated in the polls.
#VoteMilibandGetRedTories
Geddit?
LOL
😀
Ah well, the big tuba player had us dancing to his tune this afternoon. All credit due to him, although it was a very strange, rather childish way to behave, has no obvious benefit, and even if it did, it was played far too early in the campaign.
He fooled us once – shame on him…….never again!
Blueberry Soup. on now.
Now that’s either a ‘special’ kind of bananas, or an example of the utter contempt he holds the Scottish electorate in. Then again, I doubt McD actually casts a shadow.
“Yeah, so what if we make shit up? Here’s the Deil saying something similar, in a completely different context. OK, so I’ve altered the meaning by editing the punctuation. Vote Labour, we’re no the Tories. Honest.”
Dave Clark Five – Chaquita
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Dn6JPp3V8
Secret film leaked from Slab HQ, seems to be big Bliar after his wee escapade today……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCvNTU1Z7ys
Enjoy it while you can fatty we are coming……
Britjock Pretendy-Scot 1, Wings over Scotland 1.6 million.
But who’s counting?
Does anyone know the procedure by which the party is requested to form a government for the Scottish Parliament? Would be good to find that out and if it is significantly different, respond to these twats with a link.
And if it is the same, then a healthy debate on why two different electoral procedures are administered in the same way would be interesting…
“In contrast, a Westminster election can give a party absolute power on a pretty small minority of the vote. Labour’s winning 35% share in 2005 was only fractionally higher than the SNP’s 33% in 2007, but Tony Blair got a whopping 66-seat majority for his votes whereas Alex Salmond secured barely over a third of Holyrood’s chamber.”
Worth also noting that FPTP is so fundamentally fucked-up as a voting system, it can end up with the “biggest party” being the one who actually came second in the vote. This has happened twice since WWII at Westminster:
– in 1951, Atlee’s Labour got a quarter of a million more votes than Churchill’s Tories and allied parties, but got 26 less MPs.
– in October 1974, Heath got nearly a quarter of a million more votes than Wilson but 4 less MPs.
I think there’s a very good chance this sort of scenario might happen again in May, probably favouring Miliband due to the badly-skewed seat distribution in England.
Deiltak: I think there’s something in that, but it’s part of a much wider aspect of cultural theory; post-modernism, where everything gets mixed up, there’s a lack of coherence and rationality, styles and snippets get randomly attached, electric pipers playing Ella Fitzgerald, and people respond much more on the basis of the appeal of images and memes. It’s all very transient and sub-rational. All Curtis has pointed out is how that mish-mash can be exploited by politicians to sell a pup. But they’ve being doing that forever, so, heh, what changes. A smell is still a smell. You can mess with thoughts and images, phrases and sound-bites, but a bad smell is still a stink. Nobody ever did post-modern smells.
Comparing establishing a government with FPTP and MMR / PR then trying to scrape together a point that agrees with your own incorrect stance.
Right. Well done Blairy babes. You have fallen into the trap of confirmation bias. Yaaaay!
Best to judge labour in deed not in word….
http://www.kirkintilloch-herald.co.uk/news/local-headlines/labour-conservatives-and-lib-dems-team-up-to-seize-control-of-east-dunbartonshire-council-1-2287101
M4arkyboy:
If he used quotation marks like he was meant to you would’ve … questioned where they were from. As it was he deliberately removed them.
Exactly.
Since when did Labour say or do anything that wasn’t a lie?
In case anybody’s in the area Nicola Sturgeon will be opening the new SNP shop in Kirkintilloch 11.30am this Saturday come along if you’re local, the more the merrier
@ Clootie 6:47pm
Brilliant post. I am going to use that. Ta.
O/T but useful
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Why-Oil-Prices-Must-Go-Up.html
Just like Brown barging in too early in the campaign with his comical vow plus, so has this chooclate with his twitter trick. Big whoop. Is that all they have got? But then those who play games in politics (and in life) tend to also be psychopathic liars. Enough said.
Grow up labour and get a grip – but then again it’s perhaps too late for even that.
Really looking forward to seeing Nicola on QT tonight. English voters are pretty upset by the thought of Scottish SNP MPs having a big say after the GE.
I’m hoping that she will show the audience that she will be able to see the bigger picture and, whilst Scotland will come first, she will be fair to England too.
A wee hint that she will try to push for free prescriptions or free hospital car parking in England could have a lot of the electorate down here thinking again.
Perhaps I am giving Slabber and the man from Westmonster to much credit, but should GE 2015 go the way expected, what would happen to all the Scottish Slabber talent. Holyrood 2016 maybe, success there could see Scotland well Fracked.
What the ‘sting’ shows is something the people on this site knew already, but which others may not have been aware of. Namely, that when Blair McDougall speaks, he does not tell the truth. He just pretends. So you can’t trust a word he says.
This kind of prank will get a good laugh inside his own camp, from committed Labourites who are not going to change their vote anyway. For the thinking public, however, including those who are still making up their mind, it can only bring the Labour campaign into even greater disrepute. How can you trust anything any of them ever say?
And how could anyone equate the Holyrood system with that of Westminster? You would have to be very ignorant … That seems to be what Labour is relying upon: people’s ignorance.
But this kind of petty point-scoring, and insincerity, misleading the public and creating confusion, is what everyone is sick of. Still trying to make Alex Salmond the target shows how out of touch they are – and indicates that they don’t know how to deal with Nicola Sturgeon.
Blair may have scored a cheap laugh in the short term – congratulations to him – but he has in fact fired the ball into his own goal yet again.
The Labour campaign just gets more and more unbelievable by the minute … It stands for nothing positive, only hatred of the SNP. It hasn’t even got over hating Alex Salmond, who outwitted his opponents completely by handing over to Nicola Sturgeon at just the right moment. I was sorry to see him go, but it was exactly the right move, at just the right time. Brilliant.
Labour is still wanting to fight the 2007 Holyrood election again, having not yet come to terms with the FACT that they lost it. These old quotes, re-hashed to mislead, won’t win Labour a single vote in May 2015, where the contest is held under Westminster rules.
The Labour Party in Scotland’s new slogan
‘Ignore the SNP, get Wings instead’
It’s quite flattering to see them getting into such a state about this, they’ve even got an article in the Daily Redcoat now.
The thing is that none of Alex Salmond’s quotes listed back up what Labour said on twitter and elsewhere.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/564356210468864000
Apart from the snigger gotcha that these are quotes from Alex Salmond not Blair there’s no gotcha on their content.
Must’ve been a spare ten minutes between deliveries of fizzy pop and cream buns at Labour’s Branch HQ to cook up this jolly jape. I suppose it breaks the tedium of firing spit-balls at the office ceiling or trying to hit McTernan on the back of the head with a paper dart.
@ Wull.
Spot on.
That’s all.
@Grouse Beater
You would have to ask Methuselah.
garles says:
Bugger Blair.
Just read the Bio on Emma Harper our candidate for Dumfriesshire.
1. is a Nurse(30 years) (Box Ticked)
2. Grew up on a farm (Box Ticked)
3. Passionate about promoting S Scotland (Box Ticked)
Mundell better get a Panda suit fur Edinburgh Zoo. As I hope it will be the only job he gets in Scotland after May
Ah but there is ONE item that is NOT ticked on our Emma’s Bio, nor will it ever be ticked either, but is ticked again, and again and again on Mundell the Blundell’s bio … the ability to screw the electorate for every penny and MORE whilst doing absolutely NOTHING for the electorate . 😀
OT – Latest from Scottish News Team…
As some eagle-eyed twitter users may already have noticed, this week we are launching the pilot of our new weekly podcast, NewsShaft.
You can check it out now at http://www.newsshaft.com – follow us on Twitter @NewsShaft, like us on Facebook at facebook.com/newsshaft & share it far and wide.
Each week we will be discussing the top stories in Scottish Politics and taking a light hearted look at First Minister’s Questions with a special guest – this week we are joined by Green Party candidate Sarah Beattie-Smith.
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btw haven’t seen Nana on for a wee while
http://order-order.com/2015/02/19/inappropriate-tax-experts-labours-biggest-non-union-donor/
O/T If you listened to the CEO of Centrica tonight on BBC News explaining why it only made £1billion and a bit, you have there in one statement why the energy industry should be publicly owned or at least majority owned and controlled like other European countries.
He said that the warm winter has been good news for consumers but bad news for his company. That conflict of interest says it all about the need for public good.
Not sure if this has been said before.
Lieboar’s new election song should be
It’s my party and i’ll lie if I want to.
taken from the old Lesley Gore song.
Lets face it things didn’t get better when Bliar came to power.
Gary
@morgatron
Shit’s too good for them.
Well folks. They were caught lying about the NHS. The Labour party and BBC have moved onto the Scottish Police. Apparently Labour haven’t thought this through.
Their are thousands of police and their families eligible to vote. They will not look kindly on being used as election fodder for the Labour party.
That’s a cracking picture of McDougall. Wouldn’t you just love to wipe that smug grin from his coupon?
Well you can, vote SNP in 2015 and we’ll see if the twerp is still smiling when he is on the dole and facing sanctions.
Anyone else notice that the BBC reporter on the news where you are just there followed a clip of Nicola’s input on child care at FMQs with the opening next sentence ‘But in reality..’?
Labour’s shills are nothing if not direct.
They don’t understand, this nonsense is precisely why people stopped voting for them
before nipping down the pub to watch Nicola on Question Time, I did a check on the Jobby and its way ahead of Murphy at this stage, https://www.facebook.com/jobbymorepopularthanjimmurphy?fref=ts
O/T Only £35 short of the £4000 target, can you get it over the line? Just 9 hours left to do it,
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/livestreaming-to-may-elections-2015
Well what Salmond said, obviously would not apply to Westminster. The SNP obviously would not be the largest Party in Westminster because Scotland has only 10% of representation in Westminster.
What Salmond said, obviously, correctly applied to Holyrood.
How stupid? are stupid Labour members. No wonder they ruined the economy. They can’t ever do Maths or count. Impossible. Balls for Chancellor? What a disaster. He can’t even count and contributed to ruining the economy.
The tactics they employ, including the cynical point scoring, IS the reason they lost those votes. At some point you would think the penny would drop. It isn’t working. Its pissing off people who voted yes – especially the labour ones. Trying to get them pished at football isn’t working. So lets be really clever and draw attention to something that makes us look even more desperate. Particularly when the Tories have hijacked it for themselves.
A Smart Arse is still an Arse.
Blair McDougall & Labour Party use Catholic hating fascist and racist, Yvonne Hanna, to help promote their vote No campaign.
https://archive.today/CDmDU
Certain unions are contributing money to these people.
Are you a member of a union?
Do you know for definate where your contributions are going?
Are you financing the campaigns of these filthy liebore reps?
Make sure you know, and if in doubt, pull out.
Protect Scotland’s interests – vote SNP.
All credit to him, well above his usual standard of contribution. In fact this will probably be enough to turn the opinion polls so labour can retain 40+ MPs and everything can go back to normal.
Well done, Blair, you win a doughnut!!!
Sorry Stu, but I would like to alert you to a popular misconception being propagated here and one people really need to be clear on: The unwritten UK constitution makes no provision with regard to the largest party because POLITICAL PARTIES ARE NOT RECOGNISED BY THE CROWN.
Whoever secures the support of the most MPs gets to bend the knee before Her Liziness and beg leave to form the government. Those MPs can be of any party or none; all the kneeling one has to do is convince Liz he/she can carry a programme in the House of Commons so she doesn’t get a beamer when she goes to read out “how we will screw ordinary folk in the name of our big business pals” shopping list at the opening of the Parliamentary year.
I appreciate this sounds pedantic but in fact it’s crucial. Parties and indeed the electorate who vote an MP into that poistion of power are not mentioned because to do so would give either legal credence in all kinds of ways the British State refuses to countenance. All is underpinned by the fact every one of our elected tribunes must swear fealty to the Crown before they can take their seat – they’re first and last alligiance must be to the monarch of the day. Party and people do not feature and this is fundamental to the slippery question of where sovereignty lies. The usual form is that “sovereignty lies with the Crown in Parliament” which conflicts directly with Scotland’s historical convention that the Crown is only worn with the consent of the people, and that the people can take it away – meaning ultimate sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people. An that’s the main reason the very idea of a written constitution is such an anathema to them.
Such a contitution would also expose the fact that none of us are afforded any real legal standing as citizens here, but are in fact all “subjects” under UK law. This seldom mentioned fact raises a contradiction that so exercises Tories and the few educated Kippers; that EU membership actually means we ‘umble serfs are recognised as as CITIZENS of this larger union and have been conferred attendant rights – indeed more rights than we have ever had as subjects in what is at root a feudal monarchy.
Much of this was chewed over in the Constitutional Convention of the 80s/90s, leading to the famous ‘Claim of Right’ – a bold assertion that made no reference to royalty or fealty or Kings. It spoke only of the people.
Implications of the Claim led directly to the voting system enjoyed by the Scottish Parliament where parties ARE recognised and MSPs as bona fide elected representatives of the people, not merely delegates gathered as council to the King (the entire basis of the English Parliament). Labour, including one young firebrand G.Brown, was minded to concede the principle of a voting system that recongised parties because:
a) We were in the midst of the Thatcher nightmare with no end in sight so they were considering co-operating with the LibDems to see PR introduced for the UK when the idea of a Labour majority at Westminster seemed unattainable.
b) Though they knew with absolute certainty a FPTP-elected Scottish Parliament would be dominated by Labour for ever and a day, they desperately needed to keep the LibDems and “neutral” civic Scotland on board.
c) It was the 1990s not the fucking 1400s and people would not accept such an archaic and blatantly unrepresentative system.
In other words the constitutional bases for the two Parliaments are entirely different. Which means Alex Salmond’s 2007 assertion was not simply to his political advantage (though it was, obviously) but also had foundation in the statutes that created the Holyrood Parliament. The same is NOT true of Murphy-McDougall-McTiernan spin and lies, hence the tangle.
I understand most folk don’t care or don’t care to take the time to grasp these basic facts but, believe me, Liz and Phil always understood it all very well: Their faces when Sheena Wellington sang ‘A Man’s A Man’ at the opening in 1999 was more than distaste for the sentiment – they could see the writing on the wall. I doubt either Liz or Phil will live to see an independent Scottish Republic, but they play the long game and knew that memorable day that a serious concession had been made that would sooner or later see their heirs damned and their throne smashed.
Most senior politicians also understood all those obscure(d) but ever jarring “little” differences between Scottish and English concepts of sovereignty had potential to be very substantial indeed and many warned that sooner or later each and every one would be exposed by the establishment of the Holyrood legislature. Hark back to the devolution debates of the 90s and you can hear these arcane points encoded in many of the “No/No” arguments from the likes of Michael Forsyth and Tam Dalyell. They couldn’t spell it out, of course, but in truth they were probably right and the smart-arsed Labourites were wrong – this would bring about the end of the union. Brown and Robertson dismissed this, of course, allowing not one scintilla of doubt they could handle any problems that might arise but with hindsight it’s obvious they were drink on their own arrogance and hubris. They creating an unassailable Labour bastion, after all, the “settled will of the Scottish People”, and killing Nationalism stone dead – double whammy! Result! Blair had deep misgivings but of course bowed to Gordon on all matters Caledonian.
THE CLAIM OF RIGHT
“We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount…”
In truth this bold assertion has never been tested as having legal standing but let any of them – the Crown, Westminster, ANY of them – try to deny it and we will see where true power lies. Murphy and Brown can bellyache and equivocate and lie – what else have they left?
Some deep flame was reignited by that Claim of Right nearly thirty years ago and the Yes campaign means it has finally caught on in the hearts and minds of a new generation unwilling to be second class serfs in their own nation. And wha daur meddle wi them?
You own what you tweet. These are not Salmond’s views of WM FPTP, they are McDougall’s, the chief apparatchik representing the Labour party, about the Westminster first past the post electoral system.
He is expressing Labour’s view and intent. Let’s take him at HIS word. Ensure he and Labour take responsibility for statements THEY make.
This isn’t a wizard prang. You can’t screw around with the confidence of the electorate. Either Labour mean what THEY tweet, or they don’t. Apparently they deliberately sought to mislead voters.
Let’s keep quoting what Blair McDougall, representing the Labour Party, said. Salmond didn’t tweet this about FPTP scenarios, he did. Quote it at every opportunity. Make him own it.
@Bliar McDonut.
Vote Arse – Get Arse.
The long and the short of it is we need to extract ourselves from this situation as soon as possible.Otherwise we will continue to be the novelty act in the north until our whole culture,sense of self disappears into nothing.This is what they really want and then we can finally all be proud Brits together.
They won’t look quite so smug on May 8th. Or 12 months later…
I really enjoyed this post, simply because apparently catching others out 100% of the time is a bit boring, Stu.
Sorry to see the lack of humour in so many respondents.
Christian Wright says:
20 February, 2015 at 4:00 am
Let’s keep quoting what Blair McDougall, representing the Labour Party, said. Salmond didn’t tweet this about FPTP scenarios, he did. Quote it at every opportunity. Make him own it
I agree – great idea. Let’s keep quoting it (citing McDougall of course). He will have a lot of explaining to do during interviews. When he tries to say it was a joke, or that he was using Salmond quotes, people will rightly question what a representative of a serious (ahem) party is playing at?
Can we take the Labour party seriously after this?
Stoker says:
Blair McDougall uses anti Catholic fascist and racist, Yvonne Hanna,
to help promote his vote No campaign.
https://archive.today/CDmDU
So, Blair McDugall thought he “had” WoS and Rev Stu.
Rev Stu defused the situation by simply admitting he’d been taken in, able to laugh about it and at himself. (Something SLabbers can NEVER do.)
Then Rev Stu went on to explain why Blair McDugall’s tweets were actually moronic.
Alex Salmond was talking about the fairly democratic, modern, PR, Holyrood Scottish Parliament in 2007, not a antiquated, undemocratic, FPTP Westmister UK Parliament in 2015.
If anything, Blair McDugall succeeded in drawing attention to how undemocratic the present UK system is. Well done, Blair. Parp. (Sorry, I cannot get Greg Moodie’s tuba McDugall out of my mind :-D)
I note an error in your article. Your usually high standards have slipped somewhat. I saw that your opening line contained a phonetically spelled word. “The definition of PYRRHIC” should read “The definition of PRICK”. Sorry to be a pedant..