The country that wasn’t
Last night, everyone in Scotland lost.
45% of the electorate in the highest turnout in modern UK political history voted for hope and for change, and didn’t get them. 55% voted in terror of change, but will get it (for the worse) anyway.
The No campaign desperately abandoned all pretence of being an alliance and turned into a red-and-yellow-branded Labour one, only to lose in Labour’s core Glasgow heartland and doom the party to all but certain defeat in both 2015 and 2016. The SNP will likely take advantage at the ballot box, but win only a poisoned chalice.
The Tories will triumph in the next UK election as saviours of the Union, then be forced into an EU referendum only a demented minority of them really want, and which will result in a disastrous exit from the EU. And of course, the Lib Dems were dying no matter what.
So it goes.
The 10-point defeat is closer than anyone had imagined the Yes movement would ever get until the final few weeks. As it turned out, the polls were too optimistic.
In the Yes strongholds, home to the “missing million” on whom the campaign’s hopes were pinned, turnout bucked the trend and was lowest. 25% of the people of our biggest city simply didn’t care. The unprecedented surge of electoral engagement and participation was mobilised mainly to prevent something from happening, not to make it happen.
Scotland, it pains us to say, will get the reward it deserves for its gutlessness. Having voluntarily surrendered the only bargaining chip that it’s had for the past few decades and scorned the chance to be the richest country in the world ever to declare independence, a harsh new “devolution settlement” will be imposed that will rob it of most of the gains of the Scottish Parliament, and the parties of the Union will be able to say truthfully that in doing so they’ve delivered exactly what they promised. The theatrical protestations of numerous Tory MPs in recent days will vanish when the reality is spelled out to them.
(It’s surely the bitterest irony of the entire independence debate that Scotland’s only faint hope of avoiding brutal fiscal evisceration in the coming years is to pray that all three Westminster parties DO break their promises.)
But that’s it. The battle is over. Let there be no doubt that the result was a fair and accurate reflection of votes cast, the odd isolated incident aside. That the odds were stacked against Yes by the massive vested interests of billionaires, gravy-train MPs and a uniformly hostile media is neither here nor there – with the exception of the BBC, all of those interests were perfectly entitled to act to their own benefit, not that of the Scottish people, and if the Scottish people willingly allowed themselves to be frightened and cowed they have nobody but themselves to blame.
While entitled to its bias, however, the Scottish press has beyond any reasonable dispute disgraced itself in terms of professional journalistic integrity. We suspect that without the referendum that it covered so abysmally poorly to prop up sales, its ongoing decline will accelerate rapidly. We will not mourn it.
(On a purely personal level, I’ll be cancelling my BBC licence fee on Monday. This clip was the final straw – its breathtakingly audacious, brazen, jaw-dropping dishonesty would have made employees of Pravda shuffle awkwardly and stare at their feet in shame, and there can be no possible defence of it. It’s not necessary to break the law to dodge the licence fee. In the modern age, fewer and fewer people watch TV live anyway, and it’ll be a minor inconvenience well worth enduring for the satisfaction of knowing that I’m at least no longer paying to be insulted and lied to.)
As for Wings Over Scotland, we’ll be taking some much-needed time off before coming to a decision about whether the site will carry on or not. Right now it’s difficult to think of any useful purpose it can serve. The brave new Scotland we could all have built is lost. The Scottish people can bring no meaningful influence to bear on politics for the forseeable future – whoever they elect at Holyrood will be crippled by budget cuts as a result of the new tax “powers”, and Scottish votes will be as impotent at Westminster as they’ve always been. We cannot envisage the UK government allowing there to be another independence referendum in our lifetime.
But decisions shouldn’t be made in haste in the depths of defeat, so we’ll take some time to consider it. And whatever happens, we owe you, our incredible readers, thanks that can’t adequately be expressed in words.
Over the last three years you’ve supported this site in ways beyond our dreams. In the month before the referendum, thanks to your donations and your tip-offs and your links and tweets and shares, we reached over 820,000 readers, and your donations and your work helped us distribute well over 1 million copies, in digital and print formats, of the Wee Blue Book. Not one Scottish voter has the excuse of ignorance. The information was before them if they wanted it.
That we all terrified the elite and the establishment more than it has ever been frightened in living memory is not in doubt. In the end they were too strong, and all of the UK will suffer as a result.
But let’s not engage in vainglorious denial. This is a story of failure. Our best efforts fell short. Our nation region bottled it. Whether there’s any point in continuing the fight is a choice we’ll all have to make for ourselves. Good luck.
Stuart, of course it’s your decision but I really hope you don’t knock this on the head.
When so many newspapers toe the same party line, we need troublemakers like Wings.
All of what you say there is true, Stuart, and I truly fear what is coming for Scotland now.
But you should also be proud of what you built here, and today is not the day to make big decisions regarding its future. Take a well deserved break, and when you are ready, we’ll be here waiting for you.
Thank you Stu for all your efforts. Wings had been my solace at times when I felt low during the campaign and is now being a solace in times of defeat.
This is a difficult day to be a Scot. Low self esteem abounds in this land.
Rev Stu, you have been a gigantic asset to this campaign, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your efforts. That is all.
Thanks for all information over the past year, its been a great help. I am a broken Scottish woman this morning. I feel so very Sad and ashamed that people didn’t take this CHANCE.. someone said to me today (a no voter) “it wasn’t the right time” So when is the right time, another 300 years under the Chains…
Thanks Stoo
Gutted, disgusted and sad! What happened to Scotland the brave?
Stuart I will say it again regroup the troops
Thank you Wings. <3
We are in a kind of mourning at the moment. Want to thank you sincerely for all your hard work. We will have to find ways to find our news: local, national and international – on-line paper (Modern Scotsman trying to set up something) or streamed news (Ref TV) we don’t yet know.
Deeply disappointed.
Very best wishes
Helen and Johnny Hunter
I’m emigrating.
Why don’t we set up a group called Independence Supporters for Greens? Channel all of our collective will into Booting Westminster elites in the nuts?
Congratulations anyway Wings. You have done a great job in reading between the lines and puncturing fictitious claims. I hope you carry on. Only this morning we heard some amazing devo-max types statements from the middle of Downing Street. The next few months, maybe years are going to be full of political promises that need to be worked at. We can turn the fright the UK got into a power for our own future in other ways. But it needs ongoing pummeling.
57% of Scots voted for indy. Feels like our country has been stolen from us
Thanks Stu one thing is for sure keep going the fire is damp at the moment and fuel to our fire will come in the shape of broken promises
Cybernat!, Oh Cybernat!
Go, rest and know you can look in a mirror without needing to turn away.
Then ask yourself “Whats next?” but I think you might find yourself in quite a demand so you may not get that much rest time.
Cheers Rev Stu.
You have been indefatigable throughout these past few years and feel immensely proud of your valiant efforts against the weight of almost the entire media and establishment. I will be glad to continue donating until such a time as you make a decision on whether or not you’ll continue. I cannot express my gratitude enough. Thank you Stu.
Thank you Rev Stu, you were the source of enlightenment about the machinations of he mainstream media, and opened the eyes of this particular English bird to its inherent bias in support the establishment. I will never be blind to how it all operates again and for that thank you. xx
Fair play to you Stu, your work here has been magnificent. I’ll miss my daily trips to this site to find a new article which debunked the latest BT scare story. I am despondent myself, I am now placing my energy into making sure as many Labour MPs as possible lose their cushy wee Westminster jobs. Shame on them all.
After your well deserved rest I’d like Wings over Scotland as my national newspaper. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you done for Scotland x
Stuart, don’t be too hard on those in Scotland who were terrified into submission. You’re brave. A lot of us were as brave as we could possibly manage.
Not everyone is in a position to be so brave, or equipped to handle what was done to us. To castigate these people for “bottling it” is akin to shooting terrified PTSD-suffering conscripts for cowardice at the battle of the Somme.
Elderly pensioners were being told that their pensions would be stopped if there was a Yes vote. How can you accuse them of “bottling it”? Immigrants were told they’d be deported if there was a Yes vote. Can you blame them for being afraid?
You need to take a break, obviously. Whatever happens, Wings stands here as testimony to what was done to us. To the lies and the threats and the utterly unprincipled nature of the No campaign and its compliant media lackeys.
I hope you can find it in yourself to carry on, maybe in a part-time capacity. We need someone like you to dissect, analyse and document the brand new series of dirty tricks that are set to be played on us. We also need someone to write the true story of how Scotland was lost.
The future is hard to read. I remember 1992, and the reaction against the loss of the “Free by 93” campaign and the election of the Feeble Fifty. That brought us here, and to the wave that so very nearly made it all the way up the beach.
I remember the reactions of two people. One Jim Sillars, who railed against “ninety-minute patriots” and flounced off to Saudi to spend more time with his bank balance. And the other Alex Salmond, who buckled down to continue his life’s work.
I know Alex Salmond will be doing exactly the same thing again. Please be Salmond, and not Sillars.
A very disappointing result but can I just thank you personally for all of your hard work. Without WoS, I am certain that the campaign would’ve foundered and we’d be seeing a Yes vote that was significantly lower than 45%. Thank you once again for all of your efforts, you have been an inspiration to people here in Wales. As for the future? Well as we say in Wales “Ymlaen” (Onwards).
Thanks for all your work Stu, but we have made ourselves a county. I f**king hate us right now. Off to crawl back under my rock and think!
Hi Stu, we are all hurting this morning, but we will move on. Hope will always win over fear. Something has awakened in Scotland, and you can take a large chunk of the praise for doing so. It must not be allowed to wither on the vine and we need people like you and the millions energised by the last two years to keep the cause alive. I’ve only ever posted once to this site but have read it every day. I am not alone when I say thank you for helping us realise what might have been, but what shall yet come true.
Without sites like Wings, Newsnet, Bella etc this fight would not have got off the ground. I’m going to take pleasure in saying “I told you so” to any No that ever complains about Westminster in future. I hear someone on FB is already looking into producing “Don’t blame me, I voted YES” badges.
The tears have been shed, and now I’m angry and determined. I will NEVER vote for Labour again. The next battles are TTIP and making sure that Labour is eradicated in it’s Scottish heartlands. My TV licence is being cancelled and I’m signing up for the SNP.
I hope you will continue after a break, we all need to recuperate from this, to come back stronger.
SAOR ALBA
Thanks for all you’ve done Rev Stu, I for one sincerely hope you’ll stick around, there’s always something to hope for, even if we’re not sure what that is yet xo
And to you the very best what ever you decide, good luck and who knows we may yet get another bite at this cherry.
Keep the site goin rev!! Don’t give up, we are all behind you, take a well earned rest, you have more than deserved it, if Westminster don’t abolish the ability for us to hold another referendum then we have a chance in 2016, as you say labour are done for, and the snp could possibly get another bite at the cherry in 2 years, its our only hope, as for now, jst drowning the sorrows and takin wee bit pride that my city voted yes
Appreciate you’re gutted Stu, but the purpose this site serves is to educate, and there is no purpose greater.
Stay angry, & keep fighting
Time for Wings over Scotland to become a movement. While I’m not the best person to talk to about this. I do feel there is a place left for the site in a post-referendum world. They might have won this fight but the war against Westminster and the media continues. We should start by cancelling our TV licences and cable subscriptions. I know by a lot of the feedback on facebook people aren’t ready to accept that this is where it ends. Maybe I just don’t want to accept the fact that we failed I don’t know.
Fantastic news that the Scotch have bent the knee to their imperialist masters down South. They know what side their bread is buttered!
You fought a brilliant fight Stu but it was always going to be a next to impossible task with the establishment fighting a very dirty war against us. It’s shocking and embarrassing that the majority in Scotland fell victim to the politics of fear rather than hope and as you say, most do not have the excuse of ignorance.
I hope you find a place in this feart old world Stu and all the best for the future.
Please do not shut the site down, please continue. With a biased media and corrupt system the outlets we have had during the referendum must continue, we need unbiased reporting, myths busted and real journalistic integrity to keep ourselves informed and to spread this truth to others! My plan and many others is to continue to use wings, bella, Derek, national collective et al to inform us, dipping occasionally into the unfiltered mainstream to see what laughable commentary or straight to press BS is there before switching back to get truth and interpretation. I converted so many by showing them all of these alternative sources of information and journalism, (all well evidenced with sources facts and figures) without them we will, I fear, take a huge step backwards. We got so close after a little over two years, imagine what we can do with the momentum of many many years behind us! The super well informed masses and our newly informed converts giving a landslide victory at the next referendum, because after the dust settles and things get far worse and promises are broken, we do not want to start again, we want to be ready and informed from day one! This is step backwards and I am heart broken, but in terms of political awareness let’s make it the beginning and a large step forwards.
Thank you Stu,
You fought against the mainstream media and exposed their lies. I for one hope that you do not give up on that fight for in my opinion it was the media that caused us to lose this election and that is what we must defeat if justice and equality are to reassert themselves.
Cheers for all you’ve done Stu, we couldn’t have had a better voice at the forefront of the debate, we couldn’t have asked for sharper wit or a more unmoving advocate of independence, for the time you’ve put into the campaign and the issues surrounding you, I thank you. You helped secure larger number than what we could have hoped for without the information put out here. Many more would have been undecided, many more would have ignored the call to vote, so again, thank you for that.
Whatever you do pal, keep your head high and smile on your lips, you did all you could, it was the Scottish people the fumbled at the last jump. No fault of your own.
Thanks for all your efforts. Scotland will see by 2018 the impact of the No vote.
This is not a story of failure, this is a story of betrayal. The Yes campaign played nice, so smears, no slurs, no scaremongering. The No campaign used every dirty trick in the book, just as they did in 1979. I was always a bit wary of the nice approach. I didn’t think it had a chance against self-interested privilege and corporate greed.
Take a few days to mourn, to recover from all the hard work but our fightback must start soon. We need to boycott the BBC, the mainstream press and the big businesses who manipulated public opinion. We need to hold the slimy toads in the Labour Party, the Tory Party and the Liberal Democrat Party to account, scrutinise their every move, publicise every corrupt, sleazy little deal they enter into. To do that we need people like you, Stu, and websites like Wings and I for one will be happy to help fund it.
I’ve been fighting for independence for 35 years and we’ve lost this battle (through treachery). The war continues.
Its a sad day indeed. Not for the yes campaigners but for every Scotsman and women will rue the day they chose this decision.
When our children ask us in the years to come Why? we will have no answers.
I am today ashamed to be ‘Scots’. In fact, to be perfectly honest there is no such thing as Scots now, that ended early this morning. They won, what was once a nation is now a subversive region of a proper nation.
We will never again get the opportunity of redistributing the wealth from the greedy and there will be no UK wide socialist awakening.
We have handed the keys to a country to individuals no one likes. They will now see this as an endorsement to do as they please knowing there is now nothing at all we can do about it.
The promises will cloud, they will fade and just about die, Scotland will be rewarded with tax raising powers to offset the block grant cut and likely the aspects of social security that Westminster wants rid of.
We will soon live in a country where the choice will be stark. Raise taxes or impose cuts.
Say goodbye to the council tax freeze, free prescriptions, free education, tax breaks for working poor, child benefit. It will all disappear when the new powers are handed over or we will end up with the highest rate of income tax in the UK and the lowest wages.
What a future to vote for. Well done to my country-folk for detaching themselves from their spines.
“Elderly pensioners were being told that their pensions would be stopped if there was a Yes vote. How can you accuse them of “bottling it”? Immigrants were told they’d be deported if there was a Yes vote. Can you blame them for being afraid?”
Yes, I can. The truth was freely available. Never mind the internet. It was on TV. It was pushed through their letterbox. People walked miles to knock on their door and tell them directly to their face. They chose ignorance, to duck responsibility. Fuck ’em.
Whatever you decide Rev, what you achieved here won’t be forgotten.
Just remember somebody needs to hold the bastards to account when their lies are exposed.
This campaign was really an eye opener for many people, even staunch indy supporters. We saw the full might of the British establishment beat us, but in their victory I think they have sown the seeds of their own downfall. SLAB have lost all credibility, they are no more than a protection racket of self preservation and deceit. They stood with and supported the hated Tories to defeat meaningful change in Scotland. I see what the Tories did in 1979, with what Gordon Brown has done in 2014. They have just destroyed themselves imo.
To put it simply. Wings must continue.
We did our best. We must not forget the way in which we came together and we must not lose that sense of purpose. There is a lot that can still be achieved with this energy and determination.
I’m immensely proud of almost every single person and deed done in the name of a Yes vote.
Hope you’re not planning to ‘bottle it’ Stu. I certainly am not.
What to do next? Well, try and knock out Scottish Labour MPs in May 2015.
Maybe then Labour will wonder what the point of the union is.
Given what happened in Glasgow, chances are, they’re screwed.
“we reached over 820,000 readers, and your donations and your work helped us distribute well over 1 million copies, in digital and print formats, of the Wee Blue Book.”
I disagree that Scots bottled it, I think the vote was well and truly rigged there is no way the NO camp with its lack of grass roots support could match those numbers, yet we are expected to believe they surpassed them.
It’s easy to get motivated for the big vote. It is hard to do the tireless slog that nudges your country into a better place and one where you can have and win the big vote. The referendum would not have happened without a lot of SNP activists knocking on doors, canvassing and proudly arguing what they believed long before Wings.
You’ve built something good here. It may not ever be as big again. But it can still help deliver positive change to the country you love. It can still help bring independence next time. Yes ran a magnificent campaign and energised so many people and young people to boot. Yes only loses if the people involved decide that’s it and calls it a day. Change can happen in the current system, slower, more limited, but change. There might be an important vote on Europe you can contribute to as well.
As a Irish Republican, I’m envious of Scotland’s politics and Scotland’s vote. A vote in NI for a United Ireland would not get near 45% and it’s politics would be poisonous. I’d take 45% and an open set of voters a million times over. You did Scotland proud.
The task was monumental, and although there were various mistakes made along the way, perhaps the biggest one was believing 307 years of propaganda could be undone in just two and a half years. Scotland just wasn’t ready to untie the apron strings.
You did all you could, Stu. Maybe if we’d had a site like this in 2007 the people could have been readied. Margo had some insight into this early on.
I hope you carry on, although I’ll understand if you don’t. I can’t imagine it’ll be possible to continue making Wings a full-time career, but I would love to be proved wrong.
Outstanding effort from you Stuart. Nothing but admiration for you.
Take your time and decide on something that is right for you.
RevStu,
Take a very well earned break. However, I’d echo what Morag has said. Many of these No voters had been literally terrified into voting NO.
Almost half voted to End London rule. They need all of us, otherwise it is us who are the cowards, running away at first defeat. Think of the Bruce!
Nah, anyway, thanks for your outstanding work, and please let’s see if we can try to make this work, on a more permanent and sound financial basis, for you and for Scotland.
You analysis is needed to tear apart the lies that even today are still flowing from the mouths of Labour. As wee Steven Paton often says ‘don’t blame the media, become the media’. If we are going to do that, then we need people like you.
Have a nice rest. Then come back.
Thank you Rev Stu for all you have done. While I am totally gutted this morning, change will happen so please keep this blog going. I think you will find that many will be happy to keep funding it. For a long time it was the sole voice of reason out there, then finally a few others joined.
The fact that the overnight Ashcroft poll showed that 71% of 17/18 year olds voted yes, and then 55+ and 18-24 were the only groups to vote no, shows that something is happening to the internet generation. I really don’t understand the 18-24 year olds though. We now need to fight for the best thing for Scotland that we can get and hold them to account when the politicians fail us. Please keep going and don’t give up. We might not have independence, but we can still fight to get rid of food banks, bankers bonuses, and NHS privatisation.
Thank you Rev Stu – we are all proud of you.
Deeply ashamed of the Scotbuts.
Finished with the BBC forever.
Nothing more to write.
We’ll get our independence when the oil runs out. Westminster will have no time for us then.
Don’t give up the fight, Stuart. Without Wings I would have been as blind as most other Scots. Chin up, mate. There will be brighter days ahead.
If I were younger, I’d leave. Scotland will be royally screwed. If I were the SNP, I’d focus my energies on 2015 and not put up any candidates up in 2016. Leave the Holyrood shitstorm to Labour, let them implement the cuts.
A lot depends on what proportion of the Nos voted for the promised more devolution as opposed to love of Britishness. Because when they realise they have been shafted big time, will they lie down and take it or stand up and be counted?
Stuart, thank you for all your time and efforts. This movement would never have been half as strong without you. And Glasgow, we’re so proud of you.
Hi Stuart. Don’t log off for good mate. We need an unbiased view to offset the MSM. There is a place and a need for ‘Wings’ going forward. Thanks for all your hard work.
Oh and by the way, anyone who wants the site to continue, posting long comments with NO FUCKING PARAGRAPH BREAKS in them is DEFINITELY NOT HELPING.
Thank you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
I’m hollow, filled with despair and vibrating with anger. The light at the end of the tunnel has firmly disappeared and I can’t find my way out. I’m now Stateless, having watched my nation die last night and not accepting of the new nation on offer. Does a region require an anthem? I think not.
So what I’m conveying Rev, is that I feel your pain. We feel the pain and how we get over it, who knows? That aside sir, I don’t know you personally but feel like I do, so friend to friend, let me say that your contribution has been extraordinary and you probably can’t quite grasp the impact you’ve had. So thank you for all you’ve done and with deep respect, I wish you well in all your future endeavours.
A proud Glaswegian.
We wanted the chance to build a Scotland like Scandinavia and the majority don’t. As long as the No vote starts paying it’s way and we don’t have to listen to their scrounger Scotland, too poor, small, stupid…
Have to agree with Morag above.
Be a Salmond, not a Sillars.
Take a very well-earned break, find a spider to watch, then return to the fray.
Pretty much feel the same, yes posters in bin, shed a good few tears and cancelled my tv licence last week. Lets see what next week feels like. After watching a couple of the videos linked to about the vote rigging I got mad so maybe not ready to completely give up.
No words to lighten grief this morning.
Take your rest Stuart, you were tireless on Scotland’s behalf. Thank you for that.
I hope you don your wings again when you’ve had chance to recover.
Thank you for all the work you put. You deserve a rest. But please make it just that. We may need you more than ever now.
Looking at the comments on sites, listening to people on the radio…
It’s like yesterday was just a first attempt. No relieved, Yes far from despondent.
45% voted to end the union on a huge turnout. That was really something. We closed the gap, but just not quite enough.
Lets keep working until we are ahead, then we try again.
In the meantime, take a short rest folks as the shit’s going to hit the fan soon enough and we’ll need to be strong.
‘Fool me once, shame on you – fool me twice, shame on me’
Welcome Scotland to scraps from the table.
But thankyou Wings for all your work for it gave us hope, but the Establishment used fear and terror, and those are very powerful tools indeed.
Rev, I think we all feel the same disspirited void this morning. I think we who voted for our country and encouraged others to do so can at least hold our heads reasonably high, knowing we did our best.
You have done more than most, and although we can understand how devastated you must feel, I’m glad you’re not rushing into any decisions about the website. We still need someone to monitor how the negotiations for Devo-whatever go, and there is no one better at picking their way through the weasel words of politicians and bad reporters than you.
Wings will be needed until Scotland has an unbiased media, so you’d better be prepared to hang around for quite some time.
Today we’re all entitled to lick our wounds – tomorrow we need to plan ahead for round two. This isn’t over by a long chalk, and the next stage may well come a lot quicker than people imagine.
Hope you stick with us Stu.
Thank you for everything. I am so ashamed to be a Scot today. I am proud to be a Dundonian though and so very proud of you.
Thank you Wings. I’ve been waiting all morning for this article as I don’t trust other new sources and it isn’t Sunday. I hope you find a niche for a continuing role – someone needs to tell the stories the mainstream media hide. Scotland owes you a great debt. I hope this is a blip and not the end.
We all need to take some time out. Stu, I would suggest some time abroad if you can manage it – get away for a while. Let the dust settle. We will regroup in one form or another. We owe it to the 1.5 million voters who took the bold step.
The silent majority will get what they deserve. Let’s see how they like tuition fees, privitised NHS, prescription charges, means testing (if ther’e lucky), the next illegal war, Trident 2 and the ultimate bank crash that finally takes the economy down. It’s a pity the rest of us will suffer along with them, but they will live in regret for the rest of their lives. We have sadness, but no regret. There is nothing more we could have done and we almost made it, but not quite!
Last night, we learned that Scotland is only 45% brave.
45% brave, 55% yellow
Thank you for everything wings was invaluable to the case for independence without your work the 45 per cent would of been lower. I personally know this as this was my go to when persuading friends and family. I sincerely hope that you continue because now when the 55 per cent split to vote for their favourite colour of Tory, we the 45 must unite and find a common ground in an election 45 is a win. Why do we fall? To learn how to pick ourselves back up. It was a sore defeat but if we all just collapse back into apathy then they have won. Wings thank you again from the bottom of my heart.
To précis my previous post
Tomorrow …
+++
Stu, there will be politicians lying, there will be “journalists” who opt for the easy life, there will be a thousand cuts that need to be made sense of or exposed as mindless, there will be people who will pay to be informed of these things and to have a craic among friends.
Now off you go, find the CyberRats a nice piece of co-ax to chew and take a breather. We’ll still be here when you come back.
I’m happy to continue my subscription to wings.
Hell you don’t need to write 5 articles a day, but continue the good investigative journalism. Update the wee blue book…
We need to get people to e.g. understand why a vote for the SNP in 2015 is crucial for example.
Keep going, Stu.
Stu – please hang on in there. 1.6M voted against Fear; many of the 2.1M voted for the promise of ‘DevoMax’; if ( an when ), the promises and timetable become unachievable in the next 6 months then someone has to help the 2.1M hold the BT parties to account … and the one thing the last 2 years has shown is that the current Media is totally unwilling or incapable of doing so.
Yes, this battle is lost but the battleground is changed forever, and in a few short months the GE campaign which started at 6am today will reach a climax that gives all engadged Scots voters the opportunity to hold those same politicians to account. But that time the diffs between Lab / Tory / UKIP cannot be papered over, and the results from all the vows, promises and timetables need to be made clear to all.
I genuinely believe you may be the only one who can help the Nation through this and out the other side. But should you choose not to I would entirely understand.
Take some time, re-charge, reflect and then move on to future success in whatever form that may take.
Thank you for your efforts. As for me, I fully agree with this piece. I feel bereaved and have a sense of loss of my identity right now. I am a bit ashamed and embarrassed at our culpable willingness to hand the power back to our bigger brother. As for our anthem I won’t ever sing it again and the words should be changed to …but we can still rise now and be a REGION again.
45% is a fantastic result. If the EU had been neutral and the media had been unbiased it might well have been #Yes.
If there is a referendum to take the UK out of the EU I will vote in favour. The EU chose to allow the most Europhobic government in the EU to threaten the Scots with expulsion, rather than make it clear that the Indyref result would have no effect. The only way to avoid this ever happening again is to take the EU out of the equation.
Furthermore, EU exit is probably the only event that would cause people to consider another Indyref in the medium term.
I think RevStu should get on with the rest of his life. We had a once in 300 years chance. It was rejected.
How long before the likes of Brown,Darling and Murphy end up in the Lords to join the other slabs,I hope I don’t hear the no voters moan and groan when the powers promised don’t happen.
It is terrifyingly obvious. Massa got scared, threatened us uppity folks, promised us more nothing, threatened us some more, promised us he would be good and in the end many believed the Massa and decided to stay in thrall.
Now will come the whips.
Yesterday I saw the skeletal hand of Britishness totter to the polls one last time and cast a fearful cringing vote. I helped some of them up the steps, being nice.
But I also saw the young people walk in the door wi heads high. Again and again.
1.6 million of us withstood the mounted knights of the realm, brandishing their OBE’s of a vanishes empire.
And some schiltrons held. 46% is a majority of Westminster seats.
You have been a tower of strength, Stuart. I hope Wings wi continue to keep the flame to their feet
I hope you continue Rev Stu. I think you need a rest after your efforts of the past 3 years. We need to learn the lessons from this campaign. Lets be honest, the EU and the currency union issues were not handled well at all. In addition, we had no answer to the scares over pensions in particular. The Yes campaign’s positivity told against us here. We should have been mentioning that the UK pensions are one of the lowest in the West, I think only Mexico’s is worse!
We needed to be much more assertive as well. Blair Jenkins comes across as a talented, honest man with a lot of integrity. However, he never really looked comfortable debating or challenging the No side.
As you say the traditional MSM will continue to decline, newspaper sales in Scotland will continue to plummet, and BBC Scotland is completely discredited in the eyes of nearly 50 per cent of voters here. We need you to continue to challenge, discredit and confront the MSM and SLAB in particular.
I think everyone needs a break. This feels like a death in the family, but it will pass.
Long live the republic of Dundee!
Feel how you feel just now..you’ve done so much good and that will sustain you. Anyhow ..could be fun ahead a’ that truth to unfold!!!
This sums up exactly how I feel. The fog has lifted but we’re left only with the same grey drizzle. This morning I see a bleak future of more cuts, more inequality, more foodbanks, more tax of the weak, the poor, the sick. A failure of hope and the triumph of fear. Those who voted to stay are now morally complicit in every single decision Westminster takes. They have voted to back their wars, their cuts, their value of money over people. Scotland the Brave? Change, too, the lyrics of our national anthem. We will not arise now and be a nation again. Instead we are bought and sold for English gold. What a parcel of rogues in a nation.
Just popped in to say goodbye.
Thank you for all the hard work you have put in Stu.
Rev Stu, Wings has done a fantastic job. Have a restful break, you have richly earned it. But please, if at all possible, keep Wings alive. The UK Govt may not allow another referendum in the foreseeable future but Scottish life and politics should not be allowed to remain unchanged or, if there is anything that can be done about it by the people of Scotland, to deteriorate further. The mainstream media has betrayed our trust. We need organs like Wings to fill the vacuum. With sincere thanks and deep respect.
Stu,
The Yes vote would not have been anywhere near as high as 45% if it hadn’t been for the efforts of yourself and others. You honestly couldn’t have done any more to reach as many people as you did. Even though we didn’t get the prize, it hasn’t all been in vain. This debate has been a mass awakening for Scotland, and has exposed the arrogance and incompetence of the establishment. You more than anyone deserve a rest, but please come back soon. Scotland still needs you.
Firstly: thank you Stu, and your team. You single handedly put at least 10% on the Yes vote. Between the WBB in the last 6 weeks and the site before it, you were an invaluable source of facts, analysis and counter argument to the relentless bull most of us were being fed.
Secondly: I am 29 years old. I have every confidence I will vote Yes in a Scottish independence referendum in my lifetime. If Westminster either fail to deliver anything, or deliver the massive handcuffs to Holyrood that are threatened, the only question will be whether my 3 year old son will be old enough to vote alongside me by then.
Thirdly: take a break, and then please keep on the backs of our press and the Beeb. We need this site to catch it all and break it down – and you do it so well.
Have heart.
Come on guys, let’s go for it again! Regroup let Westminster do its worst and revote! We are stronger and prouder than most we are not seriously going to throw in the towel now are we??
Many thanks for your input. You have become my “daily” i also will kiss the BBC and the MSM goodbye. Hope you can still communicate and inform if that is possible. very best wishes.
71% of 16 & 17 year olds were YES and 73% over 65’s were NAW. So those that have had a long life and nice pensions sold out the future of the young.
Anyone up for lobbying Scot Gov to give pensioners full on UKOK, ie nae free prescriptions, nae free travel and nae free personal care.
Its what they voted for innit!
Have a rest, but don’t give up now, Rev Stu. There is work still to do.
The good news is that my English State Pension has just gone up in France. But I would gladly have coped with a fall. That’s how much I cared.
Stu – I can’t thank you enough for the material you have given us to counter the rubbish being put about by the unionists. I am sure that we can and should continue using such facts to keep Scots politically engaged.
It may be the end of this particular battle, but the struggle has to continue.
Thanks again.
I don’t think you should give up. Okay heads are down now, biggest battle lost.
We need someone to hold this UK government to their empty promises. Scots have faced this before, but this time we should not go back to our cupboards and hide from the sun. This is a beautiful movement.
After today, we should regroup and start holding our politicians to book. New political giants will come from this movement, it will not be put back in it’s box or be ignored any more.
Do not let this defeat lead to despair, let it bring change anyway. We still have the vote, lets use it to show we still want change. Organise, rally and get our voices heard like they were last night.
We should not walk away from this near beautiful dawn. It is for the people of Scotland to keep going. We did it before and we will do it again.
Rev, you will be needed to organise the new movement. Don’t allow this hiccup get you depressed. You and the people on this board proved when people organise they can do anything.
Don’t go Rev, lets get the new campaign started soon. We and Scotland need you.
Dear Stuart,
I had never seen anything like Wings before and you have been one of the inspirations of my life.
There must be some way that we can show how deeply we value you. Can we have a whip-round on Wings to send you off to a sunny beach in the middle of some ocean for a few weeks? I sincerely mean this. You have worked non-stop for so long.
Hopefully, you will come back refreshed and up for helping us find a new way forward out of the gloom that surrounds us.
I echo what Morag said; we were fighting the entire print and broadcast media, with a few honourable journalistic exceptions, we did the best we could, and sadly it wasn’t enough.
But tomorrow is another day, and 2015 is a UK general election. Now that the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour have shown themselves to be essentially the same, the result in Scotland could be interesting, and if the result in England is close, who knows.
Thanks for all your hard work Stuart. I hope wings sticks around.
If you let Wings die, the establishment will see it as another victory.
Have a break, enlist some co-moderators, and let it keep going.
We are a movement that will refuse to die, but we need Wings as somewhere to meet and support each other.
what happens when you cancel bbc?
they send you reminders
then what
Ive heard o two female no voters who burst into tears when the left the polling booth when they realise what they done.
I hope they and the rest of their stupid voters in arms get what the voted for.
Fuck them all.
Thanks once again Stuart and Wings for your valiant efforts. I thought after a few hours sleep, I’d get things into perspective and feel a bit better. But if anything this morning feels 100 times worse. I have woken INTO a nightmare.
Morag speaks wisely. You, Stuart, have been a fantastic figurehead, and we all applaud your work over these past two years. To sling the jacket at this stage is premature.
This quotation from Albert Camus is relevant: toutes les victoires sont provisoires.
The NO side, certainly, has had a victory, but for how long? You don’t have to look too far into the future to see how provisional this victory might prove to be.
Stick with it, Stu. We will stick with you. Let’s all think over the strategy and resolve to push for what we know is not only right, but inevitable.
Thanks Stuart for all your hard work. We do still need a counterpoint to the crappy jocknews and their dire “reporters” so I’ll still stick a few bob in the tin until such times as you tell me otherwise. Enjoy your break.
Kind regards
All the Drams
Stuart, you’re grieving. We all are, but you more than most. It’s a bereavment as sharp as losing your closest loved one.
Nobody makes sensible decisions or clear judgements in that condition. We all need to step back, for a few weeks at least. Then regroup.
We can despair, as Sillars did in 1992, and stand aside from the future that’s coming. Or we can engage with it and continue the struggle. Remember Democracy for Scotland and the brazier outside the old Royal High School.
To engage with the future we need to try to understand why people “bottled it”, in your words. To understand all may not always be to forgive all, but it helps a bit. To understand the fear of the people who believed what an apparent authority figure was telling them to their face is something we need to do.
Stuart, you are very very bright. You find it easy to cut through the crap and the lies thrown at us and see what’s really going on. Not everyone has this intellectual capacity. They see what seems to be a propaganda leaflet on one hand, and BBC newsreaders and newspaper editors on the other hand, and succumb to the scares.
Some acts of bravery are beyond some people. We need to try to understand.
Stu, you know we’re going to love-bomb you, don’t you?
Hands Across the Bath
Can we do you a cairn, or two even?
OK fear-bombing it is then. Please stay. You’ll break our hearts, when we need you to mend the broken ones.
I never believed all the people who said Westminster would do anything up to and including rigging the vote, tinfoil hat brigade I thought, but after watching the results come in, the surety of No, the utter shock of Yes, I admit I totally underestimated the depths to which Westminster would sink.
Never again.
link to youtube.com
Stu, you MUST keep going. We will all pay your wages.
There are only 200,000 voters, 5 percent of the electorate to convince for the next time. The younger generation are pro-independence. The older are not. In time, once the older generation leaves us, the majority of Scots will be for it.
There are big moments coming that need the likes of Wings to oversee.
The timetable for more powers, the general election, the Scottish Election and possible EU referendum.
You are the best in the business Stu. Take some time off. But please do not give up hope.
The people of Scotland need you.
Stuart,
It is understandable you are feeling down. Most of us are. However, you have done a signal service to the Scottish people, particularly the poor and the disempowered. The struggle and debate must go on. Through your blog and many others we have had a level of discourse and information far in excess of those in ’79 and ’97. Let us try to maintain that energy and enthusiasm and seek to rouse people in England, Wales and NI to look critically at the Financial/Westminster nexus and its theft from the rest of us.
Take a break, think and come back refreshed. Remember the school story of Bruce and the spider!
You are a hero.
Thank you Stu.
It wasn’t the union that won.
It was fear.
Here here Morag!
Took the dog a walk earlier to clear my head and it is very strange in North Britain today, no celebration of any sort. Walking past folk not knowing if they are the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous scumbag bastards who sold our birth right.
Stu please go and rest. Lick your wounds and know that if it wasn’t for you we wouldn’t have even got 44.7% of the vote! I’m crying as I write this but it’s simple,…we need you!
Gutted…knee to the groin, that’s the only way I can describe how I feel…
Emotions are raw and understandably so, but let the dust settle a few days…
Because I’m not ready to roll up the white flag.
Stu, I thank you for your hard work and dedication – it’s been an honour. But my advice would be this: don’t give up. We need sites like this. Somebody needs to shine a torch on Westminster to see if they hold up their end of the bargain. Somebody needs to keep battling on.
If you don’t want it, I’ll take the reigns myself! I’m not tech savvy, but I’m in no mood to give up!
Never give up. One of my favourite historical examples of triumphing against the odds is this:
in 1776, George Washington tried to capture New York from the British – it was disaster. Beaten left right and centre, Washington’s army deserted him, few believed the Americans could win…even Washington doubted himself.
But they never gave up. Beaten, broken, but never defeated…
That is how I feel. It may sound like a mad rant from somebody suffering from sleep deprivation, but we’ll win one day. It may be a long hard road, but one step at a time.
An inward-looking & selfish attitude won yesterday.
But if you can’t beat them, join them. I’m not in poverty, so why should I care about those who are? 150,000 dead Iraqi civilians? Doesn’t matter; I’m still alive. A total failure of democracy? Fine, I won’t vote again. Not like it counts anyway. An increasingly nationalistic, violent & racist attitude coming from down south? I’m a white heterosexual male; won’t affect me.
I’m all right Jack.
Not sure this is the end of it, even for now, but I’m having a quiet, news-free weekend. You, Rev Stu, have made a massive, historic contribution to this campaign, and helped in no small way to bring us to where we have reached, even though we appear to have fallen short this time. Whatever you decide, all health and good fortune to you.
“25% of the people of our biggest city simply didn’t care.”
That is too harsh. I very strongly think the euphoric Yes street festivals in the final week lulled a lot of them into thinking it was won and so they didn’t need to bother to vote. The rest may well have been scared witless by the BB fucking, lying C (a strong pox on the lot of them).
If all those people living it up in Buchanan St or going on yet another anti BBC demo to no effect had instead been in the schemes knocking doors and reassuring people and telling them we needed absolutely every vote it might have been different. Instead we were too clever, bypassing Yes houses to focus on diminishing undecideds etc. We neglected our vote and paid the price.
Not to mention when I was sent out to get the vote out here in Dundee I found myself trudging down long gravel drives to huge, named houses with multiple cars outside inhabited by people who always vote. It was really a total waste of time.
please keep the site going. This ain’t finished by a long shot. Westminster will wriggle and squirm and prevaricate and delay and deliver nothing but platitudes and maybes and crumbs dressed up in more worthless promises. They need to be held accountable all the way and we all know it’s only sites like Wings can provide the focus and distrubution of the truth to expose their de it and lies. The Press is a busted flush . This social media network we’ve all contributed to create must continue.
Hi Stu,
We really need Wings to keep going, however else are we going to combat the lies that will lead us into wars and refuse us more ‘vowed’ powers ? How else are we going to amass the facts as a group and spread the message to the hundreds of thousands who came along the journey with us.
Today is a shocking day and our fellow countrymen have let us down badly ; but to give up is to give in.
I would be willing to pay a monthly subscription to keep this site alive and kicking those who deserve it.
No matter what is decided , thank you and the team very very much for all the time and effort, and thanks to all the wonderful people on here . We must continue the fight, our time will come again.
Keep wings up, but spread the load with others. You are a credit to all true Scots Stuart. You are a hero for many of us.
I stayed up all night watching in disbelief as my country let my children down. I can’t begin to understand why so many chose to dismiss the opportunity for a better nation.
Stu, thanks for everything you did for the campaign and of course the Wee Blue Book that I Kept in my pocket and used to convince just about everyone I know.
Fact of the matter is Scotland is populated by shitebags.
Thank you for all your hard work. Xx
Don’t you dare cut and run! Our nation has a strong history of glorious defeats and an even stronger history of victory through perseverance. What’s coming up? Pledges broken within 6 months. Out of the EU within 3 years. The next big bust. Then what will the scare stories be?
Vote No or what?
This movement has been astonishing. No one could believe it when they came to Scotland. No one who voted Yes will regret it. No one who voted Yes will have their minds changed by events that come to pass. Can you say that about the No voters?
Their will be an EU referendum in 2017. I’m waiting to see what happens.
We won’t forget this bastion of hope and investigative journalism which was so absent in the msm and bbc over the last two years and failed to question the assertions of the No campaign.
Even this morning Colletta Smith couldn’t hide her glee at the result.
Next week it will be business as usual with North Britain, formerly known as Scotland, ignored by the metropolitan establishment.
I have woken up furious at my fellow ‘countrymen’ who have, in effect, wiped this country from the map.
I agree with you Stu that the information was out there and the people, of this now region, have proved themselves to be a bunch of bottling shisters.
Stu, you have been immense and i owe you a debt of gratitude for your determination to the cause of this country. You will be remembered long after the dust settles and i sincerely hope there is some focus you and us wingers can have in the course of time.
In the meantime all i have to say is “Scotland no more” (man that hurts)
It seems that history repeats itself as a few Scots lie and cheat the rest out of their country, but
this campaign has made some true heroes, who have inspired me forever.
I disagree with the view that everybody lost. Of course I wanted Yes to win, but given the starting point, if someone had said to me six months ago that Yes would get 45% and that Scotland would have been promised far greater powers and that the three Westminster leaders would be left looking like complete idiots, initially running round like headless chickens and now acting like rabbits staring to the headlights of the oncoming Tory//English and Welsh Labour backlash I would have taken that as good outcome for the time being.
Look at the facts as they now stand. Scotland has come out of this with heads held high for the most part. Yes ran a magnificent campaign; huge new powers were promised; if those powers fail to materialise Labour in Scotland will be finished; if they do materialise that is one more step along the road to the disintegration of the UK.
In other words, it’s the long game we must think of. Don’t do or say anything stupid or reckless at this point. IMO Eck comes out of this battered but actually one of the winners in that he’s won the Devo Max argument and put the cat among the pigeons south of the border. Historians will see the vote as one more step along the road. And without the last minute headless chicken act from the Goons in the south it would have been even closer.
And as far as I was concerned, this has taught us all some very good lessons – lessons which will be learned by other movements in Europe. Next time we’ll not only know what to expect but also be better able to deal with it.
Sorry to be so positive when others see only doom and gloom!
Dragged back to the 17th century with fear and more sectarian bigotry to look forward to in 21st century North Britain. Keep us divided
Yes I don’t care what anyone else thinks. I know the result was rigged!
Rev Stu. You have given so many people hope. You have provided a rallying point and a political education for so very many people. The reason we lost is because of a biased and immoral media, and mass Stockholm Syndrome. Wings has shone out like a beacon and you are needed and wanted here.
Please do take your well-deserved rest. But I hope that you do decide to come back and keep running Wings, the battle is lost but the fight is far from over.
Much love and many thanks xxx
Stu,
Thanks for all you have done. Like the others may I add my plea to keep the good work going (after a break of course).
@bunter
In fact other than 18-24 year olds (narrowly – 48:52), every age group voted #Yes other than over 55s.
Giving them what they voted for would be the fairest way of dealing with the inevitable spending pressures to come.
Would be good if we could have a WOS, Bateman, Cairns, Moodie, etc combined online, no-holds-barred website.
Strength in numbers …
Talk about a one trick pony. Even after they’ve “won” they can’t stop spreading the FUD.
We have 8 late teen, early twenties trainees who voted Yes and it’s murder seeing them today. BetterTogether shock and awe worked but seeing the sadness and stoicism on kids faces is quite difficult. You want to hear the raw anger at Cameron, Darling and Brown though.
I am sure thousands would be prepared to pay a monthly fee to support the continuation of this site
as i wrote today i paraphrase; you gloat @ me, but i see that you are really gloating @ your own reflection, you fool.
you think you have won a victory, but in reality you have won a defeat.
the selfish, self-centered, childish, morons.
Thank you Stuart for all your effort and thank you to everybody that voted YES especially the yes squads that went round canvassing and thank you Alex and co. you gave us hope of anew beginning and it would have been if it had not been for some gutless bottlers, Has anyone thoughts on a draft letter that everyone could send to the BBC outlining our displeasure with them and hence the reason for cancellation of the license fee. Thanks again Wings
I’m astonished you could even manage to get a coherent post out this day.
Much will happen in the next six months, for worse or for worse. How about explaining it all to us as it happens? We might have difficult decisions to make on the next polling day, and the one after that.
Go on, you know you want to. But take a proper holiday first. Indiegogo if you like. I’m in.
Thank you and all who were involved in the campaign for Scottish independence.
A very sad day in Scotland’s history. An ancient and once proud country, now a self proclaimed “region of northern Britain”. I have to go to work tomorrow and welcome tourists to our region of northern Britain and its pathetic little subservient capital, and tell them of Scotland’s past deeds of dare and do, knowing that I live in a modern uk region of selfish “shiters” scared of their own shadows. “Such a parcel of rogues in a nation, Bought and sold for (the promise of) english gold” That is all…
Well done, and good luck to you Stu, whatever you decide.
I hope that after giving it due consideration you choose to keep WOS alive. We still have work to do in ensuring that as few Scottish Labour Party MPs make it to Westminster in 2015.
In 2016/17 we will be having the in/out of EU referendum, the outcome of which (I hope) could lead to another Scottish independence referendum.
To quote Panda Paws…”A lot depends on what proportion of the NOs voted for the promised more devolution as opposed to love of Britishness. Because when they realise they have been shafted big time, will they lie down and take it or stand up and be counted?”……WAS there a significant proportion swayed by promised increase in devolution or will there be more impact on those with a “love of Britishness’ & how potentially unhappy they might be once the slipper is off, the boot on and Scotland gets the kicking we fear?
Thanks Stuart, you have been a shining light. Do what you think is right for you and yours.
Embarrassed, ashamed, bewildered and downright pissed off with my so called fellow citizens.
Stu
Thank you!
I have no right to offer you my opinion on the continuation of Wings (or not). Take your time. Do what you feel is right for you.
You and your creation will not be forgotten.
RevStu – thank you for Wings Over Scotland and for your hard work over the last two years. Your clear, sharp, properly referenced writing cuts through the pap served up by the MSM. Not only will I miss your take on current happenings, I will miss the input of the Wings community. Take a good rest and please come back.
Someone tell me this is not true about Dundee votes
link to facebook.com
I feel like Matrin Compston feels on that interview an hour ago –Hollowed out ,Its like bereavement but like Martin I take solace in that the labour lies will unravel and westminster cant deliver real powers to holyrood
I’ve this picture of my granddaughters, 20 years from now, reading newspapers and saying “Ican’t believe they didn’t vote us out of this!”
Don’t think the family will do without the tv, but I won’t be going to Asda again. With 2 business cars using around £300 per week in fuel, and grocery bills around £150 per week, it makes me feel a bit better; not suggesting a boycott, that’s up to the individual, but Asda made it’s point, now I’m making mine.
Sadly, I couldn’t agree more.
About 2 weeks ago an emergency meeting was held by Cameron.
They came up with a masterplan that WE didn’t fall for but at least some of the 55% did.
1) Offer the Scots more powers, Get the BBC to call it devo-max. Accuse Darling of losing and Salmond of being the winner before a single vote was cast.
2) Then get the banks, supermarkets, BP to say they’re moving out of Scotland and get the media to blitz Scotland with it 24 hours a day. A complete and total onslaught, a bombing campaign, only with misinformation.
Could we have done anything about this?
For me the biggest failure has been STV who turned a blind eye to the bias of their Pacific Quay neighbour.
I see Royal Bank of Scotland said it would keep its headquarters in Scotland following the “No” vote.
No, it is time we told RBS to go and piss off to London.
@Juteman
Long live the republic of Dundee!
And Glasgow.
take a break RevStu. You’ve totally deserved it. Your endless contributions have been a welcome / essential tonic amidst the dull conformity of the mainstream media.
Lie on a hammock somewhere for a few months but then come back and help analyse the Scottish political situation. Because as you rightly point out, we could get a Tory govt next year AND possibly in a UKIP coaltion. Just covering the Labour fall out over that would provide much fun.
Jings, another thread going so fast I can’t keep up. I’ve had about an hour’s sleep, only getting back from the count at Kelso at half past six.
I wish Stu was some sort of robot, that could carry right on reporting what’s happening today, because I don’t want to watch or read it for myself. But he’s a human being and he’s probably the one of us who’s hurting most right now.
I will happily pay a regular subscription for Wings to continue on a part-time basis, an article (or two) a day. But we need to let Stu grieve in his own time first.
There was talk of crowd-funding a holiday for him. I’d be up for that if he wanted to have a week or two’s complete break right now.
Rev Stu, thank you for everything you have done for this campaign. You have opened the eyes of hundreds of thousands of people, caught the attention of World Media and been a beacon of Free Speech. I respect your right to sit back and ponder whether to continue or not!
Just want to say thanks for bringing clarity and honesty to this debate. Whatever you decide…. RESPECT.
Stu, YOU are now our media, and we’d miss the view of the unfettered journalist.
As to the future of the site, Private Eye should have been ripping apart the lies and underhand dealings of Westminster in this campaign, but for whatever reason, they didn’t.
A new role for you?
Quote from Revstu comment above;
“Oh and by the way, anyone who wants the site to continue, posting long comments with NO FUCKING PARAGRAPH BREAKS in them is DEFINITELY NOT HELPING.”
Let’s be clear, this is the kind of thing which makes us love you. 🙂 Sounds like your mojo is returning already.
Sorry for re posting but I am getting tons of messages about irregular vote count in Dundee and this video below
Someone tell me this is not true about Dundee votes
link to facebook.com
The taste of disappointement and bitterness of defeat are hard to bear, right enough.
But I’ve been professionally and personally up to my ears in campaigns and battles since I was 18 years old. I’m 66 now, and I’ve only once ever found myself on the winning side. The way you win is everytime you get knocked down, you pick yourself up and keep fighting.
It’s disappointing, and it hurts like hell, but you keep doing it. You outlast, outfight and out-endure them. The alternative is to throw in the towel, roll over and let them win. So you keep on keeping on and eventually you – or the generations coming behind – do it.
To paraphrase the words of the late Mick McGahey, we only have to win one battle – the last one. When we’ve won that one, the ones we’ve lost become irrelevant.
Hold the head high, walk with pride knowing you gave it your best shot and keep on keeping on.
Westminster party politics are back with a bang ,
With Camerons speech this morning about devolving powers to England and Wales what he really means is hanging the labour party out to dry .
Scottish MPs will be reduced to a bit part in westminster as English votes on English matters will be introduced
Thanks Stu, Hey, there’s a hellava lot o folk shite scared o spiders here.
take a look at this
link to shaunynews.com
Stu – can’t thank you enough for the flow of facts and information that made rebuttal of unionist nonsense feasible.
We will still need to do this during whatever problems we face in future months and years. (What is the opposite of a ‘brave new world’?)
Please take time out, but thanks again.
Stuart, you have been an inspiration. You deserve a break but please don’t close WOS down. I have a feeling that once the ‘Vows’ are broken and the next phase of Austerity kicks in -25 billion of cuts over the next five years remember- then you will be needed again.
Project fear worked as I secretly expected it would. Labour will struggle at the next general election because they are a gutless shower of self seeking w******s, and we can look forward to a government led by Boris Johnson.
I can envisage the following scenario; the failure of Labour et-al to deliver devo-min, savage cuts in the Barnet formula and restrictions on Scots voting on England only matters in Westminster, followed by 25-30 SNP members at the next general election, possibly even holding the balance of power.
You might be back in action sooner than you think.
Stu,
We (and you) need to now pressure the SNP to run in the North of England, on the basis that they are the only party who will promise to campaign for an English parliament and for English sovereignty as for the Scots – and who can be trusted to do so.
After all, if we are now all one happy UK, the SNP are perfectly entitled to stand outside Scotland, aren’t they? What better way to increase the number of MPs? A nightmare scenario for the WM parties, and an alternative to UKIP for a protest vote.
Thank you Stu,
This website was a big part of the reason I dared to dream.
Hope it continues.
All the best
Scottish skier,
Totally with you, 100%.
My deepest fear has, come to pass. Scotland has become Scotlandshire, the labour heartland of the the downtrodden, lumpenproletariat.
Those, of us, who dreamt of better things must not melt away; like snow of a dyke. We need to take a deep breath, gather ourselves and prepare to fight the good fight, for as long as it takes.
Thank you for all you have done, I would love “Wings” to continue, I would understand if it didn’t.
Well, we’ve just had our St Valerey, now to prepare for our El Alamein.
I find this very disturbing
link to shaunynews.com
The devo NO voters believed the lies because they wanted to. They were always going to be soft YES anyway – they were waiting for an excuse not to vote YES and Gordon Brown duly provided one. Bingo! straight back to NO.
The irony is, I believe, that the three stooges did not need to give any vows – those flaky soft YES would have melted away anyway. But now the dopes have locked themselves into a big promise they cannot keep. Interesting.
Revstu we need tough thinkers like you, Peter A Bell et al who are untainted by the MSM. We have to find out so many things including why so many people were taken in by so many obnoxious, lying, fiddling hypocrites. We musn’t have a rerun of the aftermath of the 1979 referendum. We are going to have a difficult few weeks but it’s not long until the ‘timetable’ should begin to deliver and the cracks appear.
You’re a lion Stuart. You have raw energy that we all feed off. Please, say you need us too?
looking from the outside, from a long, long way away….
The mainstream media bias was just disgusting. So many easy-to-ask tough questions were never asked, as was endless highlighted on Wings.
Your site opened my eyes so far away that I can’t trust what I see on the public broadcasters here or anywhere else.
So maybe the best that can come out of this is for some kind of fusion between ALL of your sites (newsnet, wings, bella, bateman) for a donation based online news service. You all have the skills honed over 3 brutal years to see through the lies.
I am sure that would be challenging for all concerned. But in the end you have all had the same insight that MSM is just totally corrupt. One fusion website could possibly survive and even thrive on donations, and be the one ongoing legacy out of what I regard as a disaster for Scotland.
Here is one example. In the 70s in West Germany a virtual civil war went on between the State and leftist terrorists.
Many on the Left got fed up with the total lies that were told about ANYONE even VAGUELY associated with Baader-Meinhof. A newspaper came out called the Tageszeitung so that people could read facts that weren’t getting reported.
Baader-Meinhof and the virtual West German civil war is long gone. But the Taz (pronounced tatts) lives on.
I am down. I feel that way not because we lost a vote.
I feel that way because those who needed change most will never see it. The people of depressed areas in the West of Scotland, Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh etc. It is these people who will feel the hammer blows of austerity.
The greatest development of the YES campaign was unity over social justice.
London once again divided us. The wealthy in the NE will not be troubled in their comfortable life style. The bigots in the West can wave their Union Flags.The Labour Party had a “victory” over the SNP.
Self interest and the Labour Party prevented social justice.
We lost a vote and for those who voted NO nothing much will change. However for those at the bottom end of society who were given hope, who re-engaged in politics, it was snatched away again. (I hope the stay engaged and realise that their vote can count)
So the Rich will get richer
The poor will get austerity
The bigots are rewarded.
The Labour Party get some bragging rights for beating the SNP
The timetable for more powers forgotten about.
…and next year Red Tories will be calling for your vote against the enemy the Blue Tories
🙁
It breaks my heart to think what could have been.
Stu says:
“It’s not necessary to break the law to dodge the licence fee.”
Anyone got details about the ins and outs of this, please? What’s legal and what isn’t?
Thanks.
Sadly, the people of Scotland decided to “…Hold On Tight To Nurse, For Fear Of Finding Something Worse”.
But the people have spoken, and there’s an end to it, for at least another 15 years,…….or a Brixit from the EU.
The people of Scotland can be proud of producing such an amazing upwelling of public involvement in politics, especially in these rather times. The level of voter registration, and the turnout, were both unprecedented, and Scotland can be justifiably proud.
Meanwhile, an independent Ireland now has the highest growth rate in the EU, an annualised 7.7%. This is a example of what might have been…..
Have a rest Stu, but come back fighting with Wings if you can.
On a personal front, you have made so that I can never buy or read a newspaper ever again, so WTF will I read going forward?
🙂
I told many people to ‘trust the Scottish People’ on the Indyref, and I was wrong.
But to have been part of the 45% was an experience that showed this old cynic what can be achieved if people pull together.
I will happily continue to pay to have Wings as my daily source of news and comment on the ongoing political situation in Scotland (with the wonderful comments).
And I don’t do giving up (as I would imagine will be the case with the majority of Wings contributors and readers).
Pretty shitty day today though.
bbc
holyrood very quiet
probably people needing a kip
The majority of the over 65′ out numbered the under 21’s but they will die out soon as long as we keep the younger generation informed and motivated then perhaps we won’t have to wait as long as people think for a rematch.
Please, after your well deserved break, keep this site even in a different firm, going. I will subscribe, I never buy msm nor have tv, We need you,
all the best to you
on this incredibly sad day for Scotland. The no voters sicken me, sorry but they do.
This is absolutely not the time to give up. Your website has been a source of inspiration and hope to thousands of Yes voters like me. We dared to believe that a better, fairer , freeer Scotland was within our reach and that working together we could build a future worthy of our wonderful nation and people.
And Yes I am bitterly disappointed that the disgraceful and shameless fear tactics employed by Westminster, the banks, big business and the press have prevailed. That too many of our countrymen & women have been lied to, manipulated and frankly terrified into submission.
But we have over 1,600,000 Scots who are committed to our vision of a better future . Those people still want that future. I still want that future. So I say, don’t give up. Our vision was always based on hope and not fear and I will not – cannot – part with that hope now.
Stuart, you have done an immense service to the people of Scotland. We have proved beyond doubt that we are ‘too stupid’ to grasp the opportunity of a lifetime. The only piece of campaigning literature I didn’t consign to the recycle bin his morning is your Wee Blue Book. Thank you. Enjoy a well earned rest. There will always be a welcome in the hillsides for you up here.
Absolutely devastated this morning.
Agree with Stu, in this modern world there is NO excuse for not finding information. I feel very bitter toward the older generation this morning knowing the massive % swing toward NO. Call it fear,intimidation or whatever…
The UK is a sinking ship and this was out chance to redefine how we wanted our society to be run. We may never be given this opportunity again.
Keep going Stu, wings has been a welcome light in a world of darkness mate.
meant form not firm.
If I was Ronnie Brown Id ban further use of FoS at the Fitba
O/T
Just wondering if there will be detailed results for each council area. Imagine you lived in Glasgow and wanted to see the results for Springburn, would that be possible? I don’t come from Springburn – that’s just an example. I really want to see if the people in my town voted for independence or not because I want to live in a town where people think the same as me.
“Just wondering if there will be detailed results for each council area. Imagine you lived in Glasgow and wanted to see the results for Springburn, would that be possible?”
Yes. Gerry Braiden’s been tweeting some. Don’t know if they’re publicly available yet.
Stu, you know that we all are indebted to you for all you have done, but you also know that there is a huge void in the media, which has been filled by Wings, NNS etc for some years now. We need to retain this independent/on line journalism… else we end up back at square one. The lies and propaganda of the MSM are not going to stop now that the referendum is over… we need to keep holding them to account and we need journalists of your skill to continue to do that.
Personally, it is your choice and we will all graciously respect that. But please do not think that there is not a continuing need and requirement for Wings and the like… there is and will always be.
I agree totally with you, Rev Stu. Having encountered it during the campaign, I know what the No vote consisted of and they have consigned Scotland to historical irrelevance. There is no way back from this – no future referendum. Scotland is slowly eroding and losing those who regard themselves as Scots. If I were younger, I would leave.
Thanks Stuart….for everything
We can’t stop
200,000 kids in poverty
our wealth squandered
Thousands so downtrodden they can’t see a way up
We can’t stop
Thanks for everything Stu. Words seem pathetic to express my feelings right now but I’ll try.
I had to tell my daughter aged 4 and my son aged 2 this morning that if we did not get independence while I am alive they will need to keep fighting for me. I had tears in my eyes when I told them this. I am welling up again now.
On this, the blackest day I am likely to live through, my tuppence worth: last night I joked of forming a paramilitary organisation. In the cold light of day I think the best thing the Wingers could do would be something along the lines of the Trussell Trust and organise relief for our countrymen who through the ignorance, fear, apathy, and selfishness of a majority have cut our own country’s throat.
When the axe falls the poorest, the sick, the disabled, the elderly- they will need help.
I can think of nothing more constructive at this time.
194,638 people in my home city of Edinburgh said loud and clear: everything is fine! Never mind the poor, the unemployed, the disabled. We’re OK so lets keep everything exactly as it is! Backtracking on the nano powers will follow as surely as night follows day.
Not a lot of optimism here brothers and sisters but thank you all for your hard work. I wish I had done more.
Serious idea about some kind of relief operation by the way. Not fair to expect Stu keep carrying this site and our hopes on his back.
Love you all
Tam x
This could turn out a pyrrhic victory for labour
This site has the highest comment contribution of any pro independence site I was using.
For this reason alone it should act as the conduit for discussions around forming a new party/ bringing together different thoughts and ideas/ giving the diverse campaign a focal point.
I was part of what is now a silent minority, I feel ashamed about that now but no more staying silent.
Lets take a few days, regroup and refocus.
The Unicorn has been battered but is not dead; let it rise again.
Please , please let the dust settle on this before anyone makes any decision. This is a pyrrhic victory for no at best.
Lets look forward to eliminating the real enemy of the scottish people , the imperial new labour party , from scotland in 2015 and take it from there.
Stuart , your site has been a breath of fresh air for millions , thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your effort.
It would be such a shame to let it all go to waste now. We were within touching distance , and we WILL get another go.
best wishes to all
Stu,
Take your break. You’ve earned it.
Please continue with Wings; slowly but surely we’ll get there and we need Wings to explain the truth in the clear and factual manner only it does.
@Roy Bohan
A resurgent Scottish Labour Party?! WTF are you on? Like 1979, we have been fitted up by Labour. Get a grip of yourself. How many lies are you prepared to accept from SLAB? They are Tories in all but name. Wake the fuck up would you.
This cannae be true
link to facebook.com
Without doubt this was one of the best media analysis, comment and fact checking runs I’ve seen outside the USA efforts that have offices full of lawyers and other experts, the fact it was largely the work of one man was incredible.
In the interests of holding those in power to account and actually having news analysis that’s enjoyable to read I really hope you continue, depressing as this day must be,
So the truth comes out. We’re not the divorcing couple or the young adult ready to leave home. We’re the abused partner. Ill-treated and bullied. Made to feel small with comments like “and what would you do for money if you left?” and “who would want you, certainly not the EU”. And after all the shouting and intimidation, just when we have built up the nerve to leave comes the insidious wheedling – “Think of the children. I promise I’ll be good, I’ll treat you better.” And the nerve fails. What holds the future for us?
I know everyone’s is hurting. I am too and some of that sadness also leads to anger. It’s a dark day in the history of Scotland – perhaps its darkest in modern times, but we people that believe in Scotland and its future as a democratic and just nation cannot give up. In life we all suffer many defeats but we cannot allow ourselves to be defeated. The over 65s won it for No – youth and time are on our side but what a great shame that so many in Scotland will have to suffer more inequality, shorter lives, less potential being realised before we get to that new Scotland. I’m 39 and I hope it’s in my lifetime.
And WoS has been a fanatastic website we have to build upon that in some way.
can you explain why pyrrhic victory for labour
thx
Stuart don’t you dare go anywhere, you have given a voice to people who had no-one else to speak for them.
We need Yes Scotland to now become a political party, the SNP’s history and name is too toxic for too many people, Yes Scotland carries none of the SNP’s baggage. We need to keep the Yes momentum going and turn it into something that can become empowered to advocate for change.
Well, wings as busy as usual then.
Stu.
You were personally responsible for a great many of the Yes votes. The outcome was shitty and not what any of us wanted. I want to thank you for all of the hard work you have put in, and ask you to consider continuing. I, and I’m sure others would be happy to financially contribute to ensure there is a different viewpoint available.
I’m so so sorry things turned out the way they did, and I wish I could share the optimism shown by others.
I know everyone’s is hurting. I am too and some of that sadness also leads to anger. It’s a dark day in the history of Scotland – perhaps its darkest in modern times, but we people that believe in Scotland and its future as a democratic and just nation cannot give up.
In life we all suffer many defeats but we cannot allow ourselves to be defeated. The over 65s won it for No – youth and time are on our side but what a great shame that so many in Scotland will have to suffer more inequality, shorter lives, less potential being realised before we get to that new Scotland. I’m 39 and I hope it’s in my lifetime.
And WoS has been a fantastic website we have to build upon that in some way.
I’d like to add my thanks to those already posted on here Stu – Wingsoverscotland is what kept me informed and sane over the last couple of years!
Please don’t stop – we need you to counteract the rubbish we are fed daily in the papers and on tv – as Robert Louis quoted Steven Paton ” Don’t blame the media, become the media”
Scotland needs you and Wings more than ever now!
Yes Scotland to now become a political party
Agreed. No harm in keep the site going, facebook pages etc.
Town hall meetings…
John and the rest of you. Can it. Were you at any of the counts?
Stuart has said on Twitter, and he’s quite right, that apart from some isolated penny-number fiddling, the vote was not tampered with. I spent most of the night peering over the shoulders of tellers counting votes, from the moment the supervisor cut the seal on the ballot box to the final bundles being tallied. Nobody was at anything.
I heard one of the supervisors say, “I know these people. Most of them voted Yes. I’m gutted for them having to count all those No votes and not waver.”
The things shown on that video are mostly rubbish. The woman moving the papers from one pile to another had probably put them in the wrong stack in the first place. If a counting agent thought papers were being misattributed, the correct course of action was to call a supervisor and get it them looked at, not to film it secretly. Also, the tellers worked in pairs and re-checked each others’ bundles before anything was finalised.
The apparent “Yes” votes on the “No” table was simply an unsorted pile of papers after verification being stacked there before counting. There is no way on God’s green earth papers were mis-attributed like that in actuality. Again, if a counting agent thought they saw something in the wrong pile, the correct procedure is to call the supervisor (and their own referendum agent) and get it looked at. Not to make a secret film and say nothing!
I don’t know what was going on with the lad who seemed to mark something on a paper. He looked a bit shifty. But I’ll bet there was a simple explanation. These tellers were working with two counting agents breathing down the backs of their necks all night. Nobody was marking up hundreds of thousands of false “No” ballots in plain sight.
So for pity’s sake can the conspiracy theories and analyse what actually happened.
Wings should carry on. The rest of us should never again buy a printed copy or visit a website of any of these bastards that have conspired against us. Let the Rev visit them once, archive the article, debunk it and let us read about it on here.
Starve these scum of money and hits. I take no pleasure in the closure of businesses but will happily dance on the graves of these ones.
And cancel your TV license as well. Tell them you only watch catch up TV. Done that months ago – I am ****ed if they’ll ever get another penny from me.
Thanks for all you’ve done, Rev. Have a nice break.
If the yes campaign’s response is really going to be “blame the voters”, then this defeat is truly deserved. Serious shades of republicans after their loss to Obama here, though obviously the two groups couldn’t be further apart in ideology; convinced they were going to win inspite of the polls were saying, so convinced they were right they couldn’t conceive of how a reasonable person might look at the same evidence and come to a different conclusion so just hammered on the same talking points that the party faithful enjoy hearing but just alienate everyone else. And when reality comes calling the morning after the vote… incomprehension, disbelief then anger; blame the voters, blame the media, blame the opposition… blame anyone rather than accept that you didn’t make your case as well as you thought you had. Group think’s a bastard.
I do accept the arguments that the odds were against yes and about media bias but given the sheer insipid, tepid nature of the BT campaign, a well conducted yes campaign would have had a realistic shot at their own 10% margin of victory.
Syu, I want to thank you personally for reinvigorating me after being passive for the last 19 years.
I am not going to take this lying down, they have not beaten me. I am cancelling my tv license and virgin subscription to save money for the coming austerity will take great delight in it.
Now we know where they are. Now we know our targets, the people we need to flip. And we will. They are not getting away with this.
Morag Remember Democracy for Scotland and the brazier outside the old Royal High School.
I do – my Grandfather Jimmy Frew worked as a carpenter to make it ready, so sure was a vote for, but I never got to see his work.
But from that smouldering brazier came something much better – the PR and purpose built Parliament and Government representative of all Scots. The fire is dowsed now but it will not die – the groundwork for a future inferno has been done – but we must fan the flames!
If England was voting for independence would their people have have bottled it, I doubt it.
It appears we have a new version of nobles, those who pretend to have a social conscience, but would rather vote NO to protect their own little kingdom.
The information was all out there, but the onslaught of fear from the media was indeed was easier for our little noble’s to believe and say YES with one face but vote with another.
1.6 million of Scots were brave and honorable enough to put their country ahead of their pocket, but over two million of so called proud Scots were not.
We fought a positive campaign it was not enough, the NO campaign fought with fear and scare tactics backed by a media rotten from the top to the bottom, with very few exceptions.
We must learn from this, fight fire with fire, and when the next opportunity comes we hit with every fucking thing we have. The two million sell-outs will find out what being in a future union is when the unionist’s do what ever they want with our country and its people.
They will get what they deserve, but I am not giving up.
Thanks very much for keeping us informed, hope you decide to continue.
Thanks Stu… but WM politicians will ALWAYS lie , cheat and backtrack , and we need a strong voice to hold them to account. 45% is a starting point.. 45% of the people KNOW they have been lied to , by the three main parties and the MSM. In my view , this “vow” will never get through WM , but the people are hungry for change.. so there may be some interesting days and weeks ahead. They will TRY and put us back in the box…but we have seen outside , and it looked good.
Wings was nearly the only media we had and must have helped win so many folk
The WBB was a blinder, genius
Not good with words today but can only offer a huge thank you for all your work
I hope it carries on as it would be such a waste for us all if it stopped
Aye…
Tim makes a fair point. I’m disappointed in Yes Scotland, who seemed to be cruising along with no real passion, and to leave the heavy lifting to people like Wings and the RIC. Questions need to be asked, though maybe not right this minute.
This was just the B Movie, Stu. We, the thousands of hitherto politically inactive Scots, now know how to organise. 2015 Westminster is the next step. So sit back, Stu, for a wee while, get an ice cream from the usherette, and get ready for the main movie.
Fellow Wings readers, get onto Twitter. Hashtag #cancelthebbcfee
WTF!!!!! they cheated they cheated look at this crap
link to change.org
Thanks for your effort & knowledge. It’s been invaluable.
“If England was voting for independence would their people have have bottled it, I doubt it.”
Very true and I therefore have no pain saying it.
Ok I am depressed
But on reflection you reap what you sow
and Labour will certainly reap what they have sowed, as will the Libdems.
First view is that Cameron has handed over the whole devolution thing too a Lord to study and come up with a plan. To me he has kicked it into the long grass.
No matter what Labour and the Libdems spout in Scotland, they are powerless to actually do anything.
Cameron is under pressure from his right wing back benchers to do the very minimum , IF anything at all.
In 2015, there is the general election, not actually that far off. Cameron has to come up with some kind of offer as part of the Tory Manifesto. Or not bother.
The Tories tails are up, they will in the coming weeks realise they have a groundswell of support from the home counties, which should start to show in the polls.
UKIP? that’s yesterdays news. Milliband will struggle to counter the Tories rise in support in the home counties, so will try and match what ever Cameron comes up with.
The likelihood of Labour forming the next UK government is now dust!
Labour and the Libdems need to be punished in Scotland and effectively eradicated. I predict the single Tory MP will loose his seat next year.
This will happen all the more as the Tories fudge their way through the proposals.
You will also see a sudden change in expectations by the UK Government over Oil. Its already started with the BBC making announcements that the Oil industry is looking good with the finds in the Atlantic. Will people notice?
The media have to be boycotted at all levels, from not buying newspapers to not accessing their websites. Protest at every opportunity, do not just roll over. The BBC should be boycotted, with licence fees with held
I do not believe for one minute that the referendum result was that kosher. There has been aspects of petty crime with people having 3 proxy votes (Ive actually seen that being boasted on Facebook by some bitch in Galashiels).
If there is any aspect of wrong doing it should be recorded and the police advised. Some aspects, I suspect were happening by either political parties or those employed by Westminster. We may never know. But it juts takes one of them to let slip!
My premis for not believing the result to be all that kosher, is the fact that there was a ground swell of support across the country. You only need to pick through the anecdotal evidence to see that.
I feel like a foreigner in my own country.
I am a foreigner in rUK.
The triumph of fear, stupidity and selfishness!
Every No voter I know seems to have voted for narrow, personal reasons.
Know one who works for RBS who claims he voted No because otherwise he’d lose his job = surrendered to fear, bullying and threats.
Saw a woman interviewed in Edinburgh say her heart said Yes, but she voted No because she “was concerned about the rise in house prices” = selfish, narrow
Many of them will no doubt come to regret their mistakes, but why must we pay for them?! I told you so means fuck all!
Stu, man, you’ve been a hero throughout this campaign. The courage you’ve shown is an example to everyone. I’ll take one analytical, splenetic, beautifully crafted article from you over the entirety of the dross of the MSM. As you say they are going to wither and die. You be there to fill the void.
Thank you for everything you’ve done. I do believe you should continue to do Wings I’d be happy to donate in the future. I’ll be cancelling my TV license on monday too. BBC have gone too far to deserve any respect (or money) from me.
BTW
I’m keeping any gear I’ve got left(not a lot,it went like hotcakes yesterday)for the next one in a couple of years.
If it happens that they go down the fed route.Then indy is back on the cards as an option if we push for it.
I think if it wasn’t for you, Rev, the margin would’ve been 70-30. Unless you feel unable to carry on, which I understand because there is no prospect of another indyref, my political engagement is going to switch off.
I will never buy another TV licence, I will never buy another newspaper. Scotland, that wonderful administrative region, will get what it deserves
Don’t blame me, I voted Yes
I share your pain. But we must keep trying to make this a better country.
I feel bereaved today. Literally like someone I loved and had great hopes for has died. Knowing how I feel I think you are absolutely right to take some time first to not think, then later to think through and consider what you want to do. Whatever you decide know that complete strangers love you and will always be grateful for Wings, your humour, wit and tireless hard work.
Stuart, your efforts have been completely amazing and inspiring. Without your work we would have lost by a lot more than we did. Take your time off, you’ve more than earned it. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I was very proud to act as a Counting Agent for Wings Over Scotland last night at the Aberdeen count. I was proud to be representing this movement of critical thinkers who make up the readership of this website.
I was particularly glad to meet Scott, Doug and Gavin in recent days and stand alongside them last night. We, and countless others, definitely earned our Wings and I will continue to wear my badge with pride.
We did our utmost folks but the pig-headed mule that is the Scottish people refused to drink from the trough of freedom and democracy. What can you do?
People will soon be leaving the MSM in droves, even more quickly than is already happening.
Have a break. Think it through.
Re-start.
Thank you for this post in the dark sea that is the biased media, this sight has been a beacon of hope and light, and today for the people who are devastated, disgusted and emotionally drained you have delivered a heart beat of hope, we needed this in our darkest hour. please have a brake then come back 1,617,989 people are counting on it.
Looking at the age breakdowns, the Unionists played a blinder. They targeted the oldies, who have the least access to the internet. Other groups were able to dismiss scare stories using the internet. This referendum was probably 10 years too early.
Just remember that the independence movement has always taken one step back to then make two forward.
The process is now accelerating.
It will not be like the gap between ’79 and ’97.
The movement is unstoppable.
If it is any consolation, exactly the same propaganda techniques will be used by the right-wing press to vilify Ed Miliband as the personification of socialistic evil.
Take time to sit down, point your finger, and laugh heartily.
I will.
The enamel wings badge stays on my jacket; the silver wings on the lapel.
Rev Stu.
Take a break, gather your thoughts and come back and keep this site running as a rallying point. By January we will know that the devo pledge is unworkable.
We have to mobilise to vote yes MPs into Westminster. Yes must be turned into a long term political movement to protect our nation and this site must become a point of unbiased information and hope.
@Morag
Yes Scotland were far too timid and not nearly assertive enough. There is a difference between assertive and aggressive or rude. Robin McCalpine said about 6 months ago that other people and groups, such as Wings, NC, RIC etc were doing all the heavy lifting. The SNP leadership was not assertive enough either. Sturgeon did an astonishing amount of work, and won her debates, sometimes comprehensively. Salmond was not good in terms of his usual high standards. He was letting too many interviewers interrupt him, he should have easily swatted Ponsonby away for example. Sturgeon has come out of the Yes campaign the best in terms of politicians.
I focussed in earlier posts on the terror-and-lie campaign. Stu used a video demonstrating the BBC falsely reporting the pre-poll public street activity to illustrate his contempt for what the broadcaster did.
There is also however the matter of the false promises. Worse for me than the misreporting highlighted was the puffing up of the panicked last-minute promises of devo-nothing into “Devo-max”.
Scotland needed a broadcaster who would challenge these announcements. Point out that the No campaign rejected the possibility of a third option on the ballot. That unionist politicians had spoken about No meaning No, and devo-max being abhorrent as “Salmond’s consolation prize”. That these people had had ample opportunity to debate and refine and agree and even implement an enhanced devolution settlement any time in the past three years, but hadn’t done it. That in fact the Calman proposals were watered down to form the new Scotland Act. That what the No campaign was talking about in its back-of-a-fag-packet panic was no more Devo-max than a Shetland pony was a Grand National prospect.
Instead the BBC went with the narrative. It told an electorate already jittery from the lies and the smears, an electorate that would have gone for devo-max if it had been offered it in the first place, that hey it was all right, devo-max was coming with a No vote.
Some people who had voted Yes by post were angry, saying they would have voted No if they’d been told about Devo-max coming with a No vote before they posted their ballots. That should tell us something.
That, for me, was the final and worst betrayal from the BBC.
Stu, you have been an inspiration to so many, with your forensic analysis and humour! I will be sorry if you cease to keep us informed and amused. Thank you so much for all your high quality good work over the campaign.
Best wishes for the future.
After a well deserved rest Stuart, I hope you will decide to carry on.Without Wings, how will we get the truth?The msm can’t be trusted as we all know only too well.Wings provides a meeting place for those of us who love our country and want the best for it and it’s people.
You will be needed in the future more than ever as the corrupt establishment on both sides of the border put the boot in to the Scottish people.The same people they lied to so shamelessly.
Totally gutted!
Aye and the majority of the working class BOTTLED IT!!!!!!! FFS
Well don’t come crying in 3 years time, (Proud Scots) when your taking out your private health care insurance.
Dundee, Glasgow, North Lanarkshire and West Dunbartonshire are the only one’s with any pride left after yesterday.
They’d better not have the cheek to sing Flower of Scotland ever again. Two faced cowards.
The ” I’m alright Jock’s” and the, “I couldn’t get enough information whingers” (too lazy to Google anything for themselves types).
As my late mother would have said, “Hell mend Yea”.
I would also like to add my and a few other peoples heartfelt thanks to you Rev Stu, without your and other active bloggers this would have been a total wipe out. I hope you come back refreshed and ready to carry on your amazing work!
Was ready to chuck it all in at 4-30am this morning!
Then I thought HOLD UP!! I would then be as bad as the 2,000,000 + shysters on the otherside.
This is a dark day, there’s only 1 1/2 mill. real Scots who found the courage to at least try and create a better future.
All those NO sayers are now personally responsible for what they get. The SNP-SG will do what it can and should to mitigate what WM imposes upon Scotland; it should also make clear that you, the NOs have wanted what’s coming.
Cameron & Co have openly made and signed their vows, Brown (spit) has publicaly spelled out the timetable with exact dates, so you Nos will have to see to that you get it.
And remember it starts today, said the clunking fist.
If/when the excuses start to come, delays, watered down promises, don’t look for help from the 45%.
YOU WANTED IT.
Commiserations to our Celtic cousins from the Irish in Northern Ireland.
Excellent campaign fought with honour, intelligent debate and without any violence.
You could have built a bright new economically wonderful country with your resources and highly skilled people.
Unfortunately the establishment and Westminster need your resources and were able to scare a lot of Scots into staying.
I am personally gutted for you, for Scotland and for your children.
However you must pick yourselves up, and keep pushing for more and more control over your country, and start to build a more independent economy, nation and free your peoples minds.
Best of Luck Scotland!
Guys we have been robbed of self determination not by a democratic vote but by fraud please check this link link to change.org
Sorry, I am off. No point any more, will never happen in my lifetime. Out of politics no point in voting am stateless, and that is the worst thing about it. Quite frankly if we cannot mobilise the people in the worst situation ever we never will. Democracy failed in this county regardless of the number of people out voting.
They believed the liars and the yesterday men, not worth another moments thought.
Take the time to think Stu and rest, you’ve more than earned it and goodness knows it’s needed, but please keep Wings going, thanks to the spinelessness of some and the laziness of others, we’re going to need you more than ever.
Thanks for everything stu, your still one of my favorite people and always will be
I see Royal Bank of Scotland said it would keep its headquarters in Scotland following the “No” vote.
No, it is time we told RBS to go and piss off to London.
gillie – look at the following
link to londonstockexchange.com
This toxic bank has already moved its headquarters to London, which, given the bank’s modus operandi, is an entirely appropriate domicile -https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140909110631-7024313-alexander-lebdev-london-exposed-as-global-money-laundering-centre
Today, my heart is broken and my head is hurting but I am sure in a few weeks time the sun will rise and shine on a new, perhaps different path to future peace and prosperity in Scotland and beyond.
Remember this struggle is not just about us – its about social and environmental justice and peace and freedom for all on this planet. Perhaps we should work towards an international movement along these lines that can take on the big boys such as the EU, Wallmart and the big central states (USA, China, Spain, France, UK)?
One thing is certain we will need WOS and you Stuart if we are to have any chance at all in the years ahead.
But no man could have given more so whatever you decide you will have my support and my deepest thanks for such an amazing contribution.
We lost the vote but we won the arguments – all of them!
I believe our next steps are not only political but also civil – protest and direct action.
John Lewis no more
BBC no more
RBS no more
Labour no more
ASDA no more
Not one of them will get a penny from me – I will not be cowed by bankers and big business.
As I write this the sun has just come out – lets live and enjoy life a little over the coming months and get reenergised
Stay angry.
They have promised more powers. Get Broadcasting in Scottish hands or we curse yet another generation to our fate.
We haven’t lost an argument, just the damn vote amidst a maelstrom of propaganda. Fight for our own media. End the BBC’s sovereignty of our airwaves.
Make it all count for something, if not for us, then our kids now doomed to poverty. Arm them with weapons denied to us. Not sticks or petrol bombs, but decent and honest journalism which is answerable to the Scottish people.
I feel dead inside, not just for Scotland but for all the regions…..a major butt#### is now coming for proles everywhere. Gonnna go smell some roses while I still can. D:
GOOD TO KNOW YOUR OUT THERE REV !
Yes Scotland’s last big push in this area was to deliver to me, unannounced, 2000 absolutely beautiful A6 polling day cards, with the wording I tweeted which was then retweeted by 117 people (and counting). Today you hold Scotland’s future in your hands. If you still want it in your hands tomorrow, vote Yes.
I still have about 1990 of the things. Even if I had been able to leaflet every house in my area, I would have only needed about 950 of them. I was given 2000, at lunch time on the 17th. It was completely impossible to use them in any way at all. Nobody had the energy to do a leafleting run at that stage, gearing up for polling day itself. It takes several days, planned in advance, to leaflet this rural area.
The cards are beautiful. Should I put them on eBay or something?
Thanks for all your work Stu. All the best whether you decide to carry on or not.
Tim/Morag I agree there have been mistakes. During the campaign wasn’t the time for finger pointing but we have to learn from them and we shouldn’t wait long.
Tim Ward
“a well conducted yes campaign would have had a realistic shot at their own 10% margin of victory.”
Was there another referendum going on I didn’t know about?
The yes campaign was the greatest civic movement in the UK in my lifetime with thousands of different arms and an amazing group of people. The many figureheads leading it contained some of the greatest politicians and campaigners we will ever see. The message was supremely optimistic, even little things like the branding and broadcasts were great. And we got beaten by fair margin.
Up against the state broadcaster, a daily monstering by all the press and assorted media, Westminister and all of its departments and stooges abroad, and a labour party some still cling to I fail to see how we could have won by a 10% margin of victory against those odds.
Sorry if this is a bit rambling and incoherent. I am really struggling with this.
Thanks for everything, Rev, and i will respect any decision you come to.
However, could somebody explain to me how does getting rid of the Labour M.P.’s in 2015 or the 2017 EU referendum, get the Scottish people another bite of the cherry? I believe we have just blown it for another ten years at least.
Thank you so much for your commitment and information. We all owe all of you so much. On this sad day we must keep strong and look to the future. Please don’t give up on us Wings. We really need your honest reporting ro continue. Thank you all and enjoy some rest.
George, I’ll say it again. There was no significant fraud. Drop the dishonest conspiracy mongering and focus on what really happened.
This was a victory for lies and deceit. We need Wings to shine the light on the MSM and unionist politicians. Till the next time.
In the words of one of my favourite poets-
Arseholes, bastards, fucking cunts and pricks!
For all of us on here under 55 we did vote for independence last night.
link to twitter.com
It was the elderly who fucked us over, but they’ll be gone soon, replaced by generations who don’t want to be part of the UK.
We have to keep the fire burning in these people and not let it fizzle out. It won’t benefit us but it will benefit future generations. Let’s fucking fight, not give in, that’s what the bastards want.
For the 63% of Labour voters who voted No how can you look at yourself in the mirror when we get five years of yet another Tory government we didn’t vote for. You have betrayed Scotland.
Don’t be too tough on yourself, Stu. You did a helluva a job and we need more like you to continue the battle. Nothing would give the privileged greater pleasure than knowing that you were throwing in the towel. Take time, then come back stronger.
http://18thseptember2014.com
breeks
“Get Broadcasting in Scottish hands or we curse yet another generation to our fate”
Can we not just say to hell with all of the other ridiculous little ‘powers’ they are offering and take control of broadcasting? I would swap it in a heartbeat.
Not much hope of that though seeing how effective it has been in keeping us down.
I’m a bit shell shocked today. I’m still trying to process it all, so i wont say any more. Except this…
Lets not lose the momentum
link to secure.38degrees.org.uk
I’ve been a reader of this blog for a while now, and I read it because the only way to be certain you have understood your own choices is to reflect on those who chose differently.
It never ceases to amaze me how people get themselves into a mindset where it is the absolute certainty that their position is correct and there cannot be any logical or reasonable argument against it.
Maybe now you’ll all consider why people voted No, and it was NOTHING to do with MSM or BBC bias, or Billionaires pressuring “poor ordinary folk”, or Westminster machines promising the moon.
People voted against independence, they didn’t vote for Devo Max or whatever else you think they voted No for, they voted against independence as it was sold by the Yes campaign.
People voted No because they thought “why oh why are we in this day and age looking to throw ourselves into years and years of chaos and uncertainty for the sake of a small group of politician’s political ambitions”.
People voted No because to them the idea of putting under threat their jobs, their mortgages, their RESPONSIBILITIES to maintain the lifestyles of their families, not so that a group of politicians could spend the next 5-10 years “arguing” with everybody in the rUK and then Europe (and blaming all and asunder for everything going wrong that followed).
People voted No because they didn’t “buy” the sell of independence, that’s what happened. Independence was sold using the wrong terms, know your customers. Independence was sold to people “with jobs & mortgages” as “we’re going to enter into a crazy currency gamble and hope everyone agrees with us, trust us we’ll show those rUK folk that it’s out pound and they’ll be forced to agree”.
Look at the demographics, the 4 regions that voted Yes: Dundee, Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, West Dunbartonshire. What made the people in these regions not fear the uncertainty over the currency?
Look at the huge No vote in the Scottish Borders and the Dumfries & Galloway regions – both of these areas would have saw themselves as being at the core of the breakup of the UK, what did the Independence campaign do so badly that both of these regions voted over 65% for No? Consider that, do you really think that both of these regions voted overwhelmingly No because they were “tricked” into it by the MSM, the BBC, the Billionaires?
I guarantee you that a lot of people who voted Yes didn’t have any motivations for independence up until the last couple of months, the only vote they were interested in previously would have been the X Factor. They were swept up in a perfect celebrity inspired storm with Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon as the key stars. Let’s all gather in the streets of Glasgow and Dundee and wave some flags and shout booo to the Westminster political elite (forgetting totally that they were basically following the Holyrood political elite who did not give a flying feck about them).
I’m not here to “gloat” as there were very good reasons why Independence would have been a great thing for Scotland, Scotland would always get the government it voted for is the number 1 – but the issue faced by the vast majority of No voters was the total uncertainty over the currency.
You also have to recognise that the concept of Scotland being a separate entity from the rUK is just not something that can be considered valid in the country now. The entire UK is interlinked in intricate ways, most notably demonstrated by the Financial Services industries reaction to a possible independence. Financial services in Scotland are completely linked to the rUK, and the thought of that industry carrying on as normal after independence is just not feasible.
But…
Over 1.6 million people voted Yes, so that has to be something. If there is to be change (and let’s face it the SNP cannot go into the next Scottish Government elections without a manifesto pledge to seek independence as if they did what would the point of their existence) what the independence movement have to grasp is the attention of the voters that they’ve captured during this campaign.
The trick will be that a lot of the Yes voters will themselves get jobs and mortgages, and when that happens they will also need to be convinced that a Yes vote does not affect them. To do that the Independence movement need to have a strategy on currency that is *totally* solid in it’s foundations and can be explained in detail. It doesn’t matter if the currency position is attacked, as long as it can be explained people will judge for themselves (pretending it will be “all right on the night” has failed and cannot be used again).
I cannot see this as being the end of the road, if people’s political attention is not a fleeting thing then the Independence movement needs to step up the activism and keep those people who voted yes engaged.
In a masochistic way, Scotland has to reorganise it’s own economy too so that for example the Financial Services industry does not carry such a weight for people. Maybe it would be a good thing in the short term for those banks to be “encouraged” to move their offices to England and take the operations with them. At least that threat would be gone, and the people who rely upon their livelihoods on that industry would no longer do so.
Just don’t go down the route of thinking that all the No voters are scum and that they “will get what they deserve”. That will get the Independence movement nowhere. Concentrate on the future, this is round 1, maybe round 2 won’t come along again for 10 years, but by then the current Yes voters will be in a position that a lot of No voters found themselves in now, and for the independence campaign to keep these Yes voters a Yes they need a currency strategy first and foremost.
Im actually getting really quite angry with the SNP right now, they (even now with nothing to lose) are still trying to be ther guys in the white hats by saying we lost to the better team!
We lost to lies scaremongering, vote tampering and an unrelenting removal of our democratic right to have an unbiased BBC to rely upon!
Whatever you do you have been a credit to the Independence campaign. Without Wings the margin of defeat would have been much greater. So THANK YOU!
As you say. The dead tree press in Scotland will soon be a memory and good riddance too. In that event we will need voices speaking out in Scotland and yours could be a powerful one along the lines of Huff Post. You might even be able to make some money from advertising too. Think about it. We want a voice to enable us to punish SLAB and the Westminster time servers in 2015.
On telly now,thats ok then eh? As long as the share prices are ok ffs.
Sorry, should be … http://18September2014.com
Stu – you should be proud of your contribution, not downhearted. We’re all sad about the result, but the pressure will build again as the Westminster promises fail to materialise and the parties that got together in the Better Together alliance are punished at the Scottish polls. The next UK and Scottish elections will bring a landslide for the SNP. Keep going and our time will come again, and a lot quicker than we might imagine.
Thanks Stu for everything. This site has informed and energised me and I feel as if I am part of a huge family. There are more elections on the way and we have to work together to make sure the deceitful, self serving Scottish Labour MPs are kicked off the gravy train. We need, more than ever, to hold the BBC to account, we can’t allow it to slide back into business as usual as the purveyer of State lies and pulp TV.
We need you rested and raring to go.
Gallant losers are losers for a’ that – and the sad fact that must be faced is the ‘best shot’ was nowhere near good enough. 55% of the Scottish electorate are unionists, and this is likely to get worse not better with corporate indoctrination in the schooling system alongside the increasing homogeneity and dispersal of the ‘British’ middle class and its core values. It’s not Westminster that is the problem, it never was, but simply ingrained class compliance and deference. I suggest the SNP party is part of this problem.
A Bliderberg approved toady like Brown, willing to lie to his own people for a few book sales, is the real face of Scotland this morning. For change to happen it needed a far more radical and certain strategy than anything Salmond / Sturgeon / SNP are capable of putting forward (or more to the point are interested in putting forward) – and that has been painfully clear throughout with Eck’s often shambolic performances.
One must not see defeat as in any way valiant, it does not help anyone.
We could hit back and hit them where it hurts. I posted this on another thread and there were similar ideas along the same vein.
Please don’t just give up now, we have came so far to give up now, we might not get independence but we can make them pay for what they have done.
@Croompenstein
“Hit the fuckers where it hurts them most”
Totally agree, no more buying newspapers, cancel the BBC licence fee, don’t use BP garages and move our money from the RBS or any other bank that cow towed to Westminster.
But if we take it one step further and hit them where it really hurts that would make a bigger impact.
The no campaign won with lies, duplicity, scare tactics and the denigration of you and me, the Scottish people. Let us start now and turn those same things against the people who used them against us.
If we stand firm together in defeat as we have over the last few years whilst campaigning, we can change the political future of Scotland forever.
There will be Scottish elections in 2016 and if we start now we can make a difference in those elections, we can fund posters with the candidates lies emblazoned on them, tie them to every lamppost in their constituency, put them in every wingers window and through every constituents letterbox, fund public meetings, knock on every door and make sure they are exposed for what they are.
We could support the SNP candidate or the Labour for Independence candidate, or we could have our own independent candidate stand.
If we expose them for what they are and make sure every person in their constituency’s knows what they have done, their reputations will suffer greatly and their chance of re-election with it.
We have the people, we have the finance if we all chip in a little but often and we have the time if we act now.
I for one cannot sit back and let these people get away with what they have done, if we stay together we can make them suffer for what they have done to us.
I, an Englishman living in London, am utterly gutted this morning. I wanted to move to a new and free Scotland and break from from this illusion of democracy fed to us by criminals and the media they own.
I am broken. All my political beliefs and hopes for a fair and real democracy are washed down the pan.
Surely the vote was so close that another one could be suggested? Of course it would take physical riots to get Westminster to ‘allow’ that.
we have woken up in a nightmare today, thanks to the true enemy: the ignorance of the general population.
Rev. Whatever you decide, I guess we will back you, but I hope that you continue.
I just think you need a couple of weeks in the Maldives, sans computer, to unwind and recharge, but everything you said above is exactly how I felt when I woke up this morning, after 3 hours of a 36 hour shift.
If you decide to wind up, well hey ho, but my heart felt thanks go out to you, you’ve been an inspiration to many.
Just to say, also, a big thanks to Bob Sinclair, who was immense at the Glasgow count last night on behalf of Wings.
Scotland didn’t lose last night, we just didn’t win.
YET.
The majority of the working class didn’t bottle it.
The majority of the middle classes were fearties and swallowed the threats from the bankers and big business while too many of the older generation still hark back to the days of the British Empire and couldn’t embrace change.
Well worded, thank you for supplying me with the knowledge I required to fight against all doubters. Please carry on, I dont know where to go next, im to tired to think straight. But I will come back tomorrow stronger and more determined. Alba Gu snooker loopy!
Having looked at the demographics we were undone solely by Project Fear scaremongering the pensioners (and possibly also prevailing on their union ties forged by WWII etc). They did a job on us, our naivety perhaps was our undoing.
That demographic aside we really did win the arguments and I feel somewhat validated that my generation were for YES.
Independence is merely forestalled. I urge Wings to keep going – we need Scotland leaning blogs and website more than ever as the BBC and the print-media do NOT represent so many of us.
Stay and help us co-ordinate our vast vote and collective numbers to bear in the elections to come and, until independence is realised, help us all co-ordinate to attack and redress the social injustices like Trident & foodbanks one by one. There are a lot of numbers here, we can still do this and make a difference.
The more than 664,000 Scottish voters who couldn’t be arsed to vote don’t deserve the energy, enthusiasm, productivty, graft or indeed charity from those that did, including those that voted NO.
So I say this to all those in Scotland who clearly don’t care one way or the other what happens to you or your country; fuck you.
And to those that did vote NO, shame on all of you who have effectively instructed the Westminster & London Establishment to execute whatever action it deems necessary to not only preserve the status quo, but to cement it in Aberdeen granite, so that our small rich nation can be stripped clean of its wealth, resources & talent at their free will.
I am fortunate in that I have already lived abroad & will begin the process this week of preparing to leave Scotland for good.
The majority have made it known to me, my friends, colleagues, acquaintances & all the others I have not been fortunate to meet that they do not consider Scotland to be a country, now, in the near future or perhaps ever.
That majority of Scots have indicated that they believe the current dysfunctional, corrupt, greedy, self serving British Establishment is agreeable & acceptable & that no reasonable alternative is worth considering.
So Scotland, you are on your own. But NEVER again complain about your lot. NEVER complain about Westminster. NEVER complain about savage austerity cuts. NEVER complain about the imorality or costs of Trident. NEVER complain about the blatant bias in the media. And NEVER again complain about phoney, illegal wars.
The majority of Scotland is clearly delighted to live in this type of society.
Well, you are on your own now.
Goodbye.
For ever.
I for one will keep on fighting the bastards until I am in my grave, anytime, anywhere.
Bring it on!
Alec Salmond – Nazi, dictator, arrogant etc. etc.
Gordon Brown, self proclaimed proud Scot, patriotic Scot, etc etc. All a tad ethnic. Railing against ‘narrow nationalism’.
And yet it was Alec Salmond who was content to entrust the vote to the whole electorate in Scotland, regardless of how proudly or patriotically Scottish they claimed to be. In the Scottish context that seems more like democracy to me than ‘narrow nationalism’.
Rev Stu, firstly thanks for being here for us, as in previous posts you surely know how heartfelt the comments are.
I’m with you, time for reflection and no rush to make important decisions at this stage.
I hope in due course that you will continue as most of your supporters previously have stated, I have in the past contributed financially and I am more than happy to continue this in to the future.
It’s your decision I hope you make the right one, again many thanks and enjoy a break (hopefully not to long)!!
Well down everybody, remember we were up against the entire British State.
Broonies timetable is already of the table. Milliband and Cameron must deliver and soon.
The Yes parties must lead the Devo debate and be on the front foot now. Dont allow them to get away with the diluted piss currently on offer.
Speaking to many no’s in pub last night last night before result announced, they didnt tell me that before.
They are not status quo but felt it too much a risk to go on our own. Majority even favoured our own currency if we had won. Wow.
Its only a 5% swing needed next time, so lets make sure Westminster dances to our tune.
Thank you I hope you come back with a new project . There are idiots that need informed.
Thanks for all your efforts – no more BBC in this house.
Cheers for your hard work Stu and good luck with whatever you decide to do
Kid spotlight
Majority of Scots are not unionists as I believe a majority of Scots born voters actually voted YES. The others are “conservative” by nature and resistant to radical change and thats why Alex Salmond has succeeded with his gradualist approach.
Without this SNP strategy there would never have been a referendum in the first place. One step at time in the long game with Devo Max or Federal solution next.
OK. That Battle is lost. Do we fight on or do we cower and lie down?
I never felt it in by bones that the result was in the bag. I never subscribed to twitterers and two-face bookers, nor accepted, or trusted, all of the “converts”, spies and back stabbers and entrists in the Yes camp. The vast majority were wonderful and we have to maintain and harness that spirit and move forward. We need the young ones to carry on trails blazed by the older and deceased nationalists and Republican Socialists. I have always felt, for what it worth, that the SNP should change their title and drop the word “National” for “Independent”, or something along these lines, Not only the right wing Unionist Labour Party and their Tory allies make false play on the title but we even have right wing Loyalists with the cheek to call the SNP “Nazis”.
At least we are spared the nauseating prospect of the Darlings, Alexanders, Murphys and Reids, etc, being given a place at the negotiating table and a foot under the career table. The entrists, careerists, splitters and spies in the Yes camp must now show their true colours. Traditional Labour heartlands; Dundee, Glasgow and West Dunbartonshire came out for Yes. Lets regroup and kick them out next election.
Are we Bravehearts or Fainthearts? Let’s see as many of the Bravehearts as possible out tonight.
St Peter’s Church Hall
Directions
Be the first to review
Address: 46-60 Hyndland St, Glasgow G11 5PS
Gather. 7pm
Uisqueabach group
Alastair Tennant Pipes.
Buffet. Bring yer ain cerry oot.
£10 admission
Subway Partick X up from Lismore or Hillheid Subway, left at Western Infirmary.
Or bus to Cottars, facing Rock Bar.
Bring a friend. If not bring Yohann Lamont or Jim Murphy. Bring a food dish. Nae humble Pie. Nae eggs please.
We cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. Vladimir Lenin.
Yes we loast a battle, but the war goes on.
@Colin Rippey – I hope and pray that when the fracking starts it starts in your back garden and when they’ve finished with it fill the holes with radioactive waste and then for good measure they could build some missile silos out your front door and see how you like it ya absolute prick
HI,Stuart, I’m gutted just like 45% of my fellow Scots , I’m more disappointed than anything else because i never thought that 55% of my fellow countrymen and woman were so taken in by Westminster ,to think that 55% of all Scots are happy the way things are just now is incredible , the 4 region who voted YES are the 4 regions with the most Deprivation and poverty and unemployment , so the other regions are more or less saying we are all right jack ,that disappoints me as a proud Scot .I will as a believer in democracy accept the outcome , it still does not mean i can’t be disappointed in outcome ,what will you feel like at the Rugby , football ,and the national athletic game now when they sing Flower of Scotland , or Scotland the Brave , the world will just laugh at us and say they don’t even know what they are singing about .in my opinion it is a sad day and a missed opportunity for all of Scotland , we will just have to hope our children and grand children are wiser and braver than us .
Stu
Thank you. Enjoy your rest.
Hi Stu
You couldn’t have done more – have a rest, but PLEASE come back!
I felt the same in ’79, but the war isn’t over. We need to remember Mao (paraphrased) – when the enemy advances, we retreat, when the enemy stops, we regroup, when the enemy weakens, we advance.
We need your alternative analytical info. We need a powerful forum. You need help to share the load. We need some new targets.
Contributors here have already suggested some. Let’s go for a focus on the weak link on the “no” side. A campaign against Trident replacement aimed at Scottish Labour MPs. Coordinated voting to unseat the likes of “Slippery Jim”.
Exposure of “devo nano”, compared to even the Tories far less the Liberals 1913 Bill.
I’m sure there is power in the grassroots to show this is not over. Guerilla warfare next.
Dave Robb
Well done, everyone who voted Yes. Now is the time to do what’s best for yourself and your family. Personally I’ll be moving done to the City as it’s the only place with real economic oppertunities in this country.
Good luck and I wsh you all a proseperous future.
keep this site going stu you have inspired so many of us i have voted labour all of my life but the yes campaign has truly inspired me i now feel closer to snp than i do labour i think the best way forward for our campaign would now be for snp to disband and try and pull the whole yes campaign together to get rid of all of these westminster labour mps they are our enemy within putting forward snp candidates as well as the likes tommy sheridan robin mccalpine patrick harvie women for indy and all the rest as the yes party to achieve our long term goal
The newspapers who have prevailed during the campaign were previously in decline. They gained temporary sustenance from the referendum. That decline will resume. What might hasten it? The clear answer is competition ( so loved by some ) While the cause of Scottish self determination is now awaiting burial the search for truth enabling balanced judgement will continue and find fresh fields of purpose. Many of us who have a thirst for truth and balanced judgement will be only too willing to subscribe to its production. . The base exists for this! Do not jettison it. You will regret doing so. Adapt! Regenerate! Grow! There is a world to fight for. PLEASE!
It was an honour taking the journey with you Stu, from the earliest days.
I also had the priveledge of representing WoS as an agent on Doug’s team at the Aberdeen count. As I watched ballots being counted, one at a time, with speed but also with accuracy, and the number of No votes, each representing a citizen we either failed to reach or failed to persuade, it became obvious fairly quickly we might not make it. As indeed it turned out.
I also need some time to reflect. But something a fellow Yesser said to me recently needs repeating. We were there, we chose to give up our time and effort, if there is fault to attribute for failing to cross the line, the fault is not with you, or with the others that threw themselves into this with passion and commitment.
We will see if they keep their vow. I doubt it. But we need to make sure others see, with clarity, whether the promises are kept or broken.
Stu I was late in finding this site but has been a real inspiration to me in the last 4-5 months, please keep it alive after a bit of quiet thought to yourself.I went to my bed last night thinking I was living in a country, but unfortunately woke up this morning living in a county.
Take time out and relax.
Regroup and get ready to really kick some ass in 2015 our next item.
“Nil satis nisi optimum”
Colin Rippey
i’m a pensioner my future is secure, which is more than i can say for over 13m people living in poverty, in the UK.
7m of the above number, in work and in poverty.
you are about to see that number soar, just to add insult to their injuries, note that they will also be blamed for being in poverty.
I’ve never made a comment on here before but I just want to say a big thanks to you Stu and please never give up.
I’m very proud of every one of you who gave it their all.
We should all be proud to be one of the 45.
Our day will come.
Well it’s the day after the night before and what do we find that Project Fear beats hope. I admit I was angry and upset that we didn’t win. However 45% isn’t that bad and it turns out the only demographic that let us down were the pensioners.
I know there are pensioners that voted yes. But these are the ones that were less likely to use the resources of the internet age and find out that pensions would have been covered by Westminster and relied on the main stream media that covered Brown’s lies about pensions, organ donations, etc.
As such I am optimistic for the future, this whole referendum has been a marathon not a sprint even more so over my life from the offer of an assembly in 79, the parliament in 97, this is just another small step on the road to Scotland being independent again.
If anything what has happened is that Labour has lost their heart and soul to middle England and Scotland has taken note. Also the main stream media are a busted flush, the papers will continue to see falling readership and the bias of the BBC’s management is now transparent.
The one thing above all else I’m proud of is how we now have resources outwith the usual suspects that give us the means to question and not just follow.
To finish, I just want to reiterate what I commented last night, the genie is out of the bottle and it is never going back and that genie is out thanks to people like you Stu and I want to thank you for the past years work.
If The SNP is re-elected in 2016 why can’t they hold another referendum with or without the OK from Westminster.
What can they do to stop it – send in the army?
There is no point in continuing. North Britain will never be allowed to go. We are a region of England with no concept of self-worth and the people who live in it proved yesterday without
a doubt that they will never be ready to take responsibility for themselves. I’m now looking forward to a new life in a real country, probably Portugal. I no longer care about North Britain. Good luck to all of you who won’t be able to escape.
What’s sickening is that if this vote had been between Devo Max, and I mean proper Devo Max, and the status quo we would now be in the process of having access and economic control of our enormous wealth.
It would also have been a giant step towards full independence. The SNP made a mistake in trying to achieve their goal too early
A sad day but one we have to get over. I’ve been doing some thinking for a way forward for us as a (well I’m not quite sure at the moment) country / region.
We need to harness the enthusiasm we have all put into this referendum. I think that enthusiasm needs to be channelled into a new political party. A party with passion for politics in Scotland. A party that wants the best for Scotland without the need to head down to London. Basically we need decent opposition to the excellent SNP government and the Labour Party in Scotland is not that entity.
That new party would need to have intelligent, thoughtful people – Robin McAlpine, Jean Freeman, Stuart Campbell, Pat Kane and others very like them.
We could crowd-fund this new party to get them off the ground. We then, for starters, get them to stand in Glasgow against the Labour party and so another Scottish political party comes into existence.
Obviously we’d need to run this past those mentioned above, but they are already well known to the public. They are already recognised faces. They are bright and they are intelligent.
What do you think?
We all need to take a rest then regroup. The idea that we will sit quietly and wait to see what is offered to us at the scrag end of a new constitutional settlement for England, is not going to happen.
The days of Scotland being told that our interests are best served from Westminster are gone. No one buys that.
We somehow need to organise a settled declaration of what we are prepared to contribute to the UK as a constituent part of it. If that means another referendum, then so be it. And this time we don’t need anyones permission to consult.
Take a wee breather Stu. We can’t stop now. We need to mitigate the damage that’s coming.
Wings has to play a part in what happens next. I think we’ll be shafted if not.
Rev.
Going forward, since among the Wings readership its safe to say most distrust the printed press, while I can only speak for myself – I’d happily pay a monthly subscription for the site to continue.
The referendum may be over but these fuckers still need monitored and people still need to be informed.
Inevitably the impetus may dessert some, but definitely not all. This site is still unique in the way it was funded and the buzz it built up, its got to be worth building on.
Enjoy your break anyway.
To the Rev Stu.
You do what you must Stu but this old campaigner is here till the grim reaper comes to call. The Westminster Mafia may have won this battle but have not yet won the war.
“Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
Weel, Rev Stu, Ah’m no deid yet a whiles.
After this result, Scotland has been drained of energy both literally and metaphorically. The naysayers will slip back into their comfortable inertia – I wonder how many will even hold the parties to account on fulfilling their sinister last minute devo max bribe (intended to wean Scotland off `subsidies’). I was considering what local action i could do to build the new nation but am demotivated, tho maybe only temporarily
The ball and theoretically the pressure has passed to the Westminster parties with this result. The onus is on them to implement what they promised.
@Dave Robb
Tactical voting from those who voted Yes in Westminster/Holyrood constituencies is surely the way forward now. We need to target the likes of Murphy, both Alexander’s, Davidson, Curran, Hood, Harris etc all these odious SLAB careerists. They need to be treated like the Tories in the 1980s and 1990s. It needs to be co-ordinated and planned. It can be very effective though.
At about 23.00 on BBC, Davidson in talking suggested she knew the result and was smiling,BUT what made is a bit sinister there was mention of the postal votes had been opened and sampled
Why sample the vote,
Note in the clips, the ballot boxes are opened , and the ballot papers are bound
Stu,
I encourage you to keep going with this site as an investigative political one once the dust settles. The newspapers are dying on their arses and it’s because they are not doing what should be expected of them and challenging our politicians like this site has been. Keep up the good work post-referendum, I’m sure there are plenty readers out there that would love to remain involved with this site and read what it has to say in the future.
@Clootie 11.36
…and next year Red Tories will be calling for your vote against the enemy the Blue Tories
I used pride myself that I voted for a person based on their ability and their policy regardless of party.
Trust me when I say that no unionist party will ever see a vote from my household from now on. After their strategy and actions during this campaign no CONLABLIB representative had better show up on my doorstep next year begging for votes, not GEs, Euro elections or seats on the local fucking council. I see one rosette near my front gate I’m releasing the weans on them.
P.S.
Whaurs the ither 99?
I honestly think there is a lot of investigation to be done into what went wrong. It went to the wire but a million people I’m told who registered didn’t vote. Odd, no? But even if there were no outright dirty tricks there is still the question of how we were outflanked. Everything seemed to be going so well through the day, the Yes side visible, confident and happy, the No’s hardly noticeable. It can’t all have been wishful thinking and arrogance on our part, surely?
We’re in trauma after having such a wonderful and inspiring vision suddenly snatched from just within our reach. But so are over a million others, damn near half of Scotland. The want us all to disperse peacefully, fragment, and morn silently in solitude, or better still split into hostile factions. That would be their true victory.
But can’t we hold that vision, it was almost real. Can’t we find ways to harness the solidarity before it evaporates? A million or more motivated people, people who have dared to hope and dream, what a power source.
So there needs to be ways to focus that power and vision. And it needs to be done quite quickly before the momentum is lost. Even if all we can do in the short term is resist. The debate isn’t over. The debate needs to begin over why? Especially once Westminster fail to deliver on its promises. Imagine the anger when maybe a large proportion of the NO’s discover that they were had. There needs to be plans and structures to channel that anger into constructive action.
The social disconnect with the erosion of Holyrood will creep north and our recently – found solidarity will wane.
People have short memories – it is only three years since England’s town burnt and I’m certain that only some protective policies up here meant our cities were spared.
England’s the one to watch – if testified to by the attitudes I experienced in Oxfordshire recently.
Sad day…I feel quite disheartened.
Well done Stu. Agree with the many wishing you to keep attacking. Many will be up for a subscription basis for funding.
Frustrated and downhearted as I am especially as a 65 year old I don’t want the bastards to get off lightly especially Labour.I could still see a future campaign culminating in the SNP or even better an alliance of Holyrood(YES)parties going into a future Scottish election with a request for a mandate to demand independence ie without a referendum??
We can work on the 2015 1nd 2016 elections and target 2020 as the date to do this?
Don’t give up mate!!!
We need you to continue after you take a rest. I am immensely grateful to you for keeping me informed, printing the truth. Can you raise funds to start a newspaper, in pint as well as on line? I’ve unsubscribed from the Scotsman and the Herald. Their reporting is untrustworthy. Surely many others will also unsubscribe, and subscribe to Wings or its successor, and willingly pay for their subscription!
Scotland needs you!
Thank you again Rev.Stu, please continue this blog and please tell us how much to contribute so that you can have a well deserved holiday.
I would be willing to subscribe to your blog and I am sure everyone else would as well.
Please just put a post up with suggested amounts.
I only came to wings very late in the fight and like many, I’m licking my wounds today. I feel ashamed that I let so many others carry the torch of freedom for me while I watched in silent hope. Everything has not been lost, many now see for the first time how completely bias our media has unashamedly demonstrated itself to be. It was an incredible result given the odds against us. I don’t believe hope is gone. The Scottish people need a medium for truth and I hope you find the strength to go on.
The BBC has died for me, not my hope. They can shove there tv licience.
Scotland is but a North British region of unionists, bigots and self-serving people. I don’t believe the vote was rigged last night, I believe the Scottish people rigged the vote for themselves. David Cameron in his post-referendum speech, said ‘the Scottish people have had their say…. now it’s time for the English.’ Pretty well sums everything up for our future. Our destiny is now in the hands of our southern neighbours. Today, 19th September 2014, will be remembered as Scotland’s darkest every day – even worse than the 1st May 1707, a day of street riots as the parcel of rogues took the gold and sold Scotland. Life goes on, and the sunshine of Spain beckons!
You are a Scots national treasure Stu. Thanks for everything you have done.
Dear Stuart and all who have contributed to the meisterwerk that is the WBB,
I too am writing this through my tears as I mourn for our stillborn country, the vision of Scotland as she could be ripped from our arms.
I know how you feel, so many of us have poured our hearts and souls into this for so long but we need you. The print media is dead for many of us and we have developed a new media. You are the leader in that and you have thousands of reporters, digging, photographing and sharing honestly. Once you have had (in no particular order) some sleep, a good cry and a strong whisky then you need to get WoS onto a secure financial footing (maybe a wee subscription or whatever) and keep going.
My newspaper subscription was already cancelled and we have to keep the online media that we grew from scratch – you are key to that.
Sadly we must expend the energy that would have built the new Scotland just defending her from what is coming but that too is important. 3 months ago we would almost have found it hard to believe that we would get 44% but when we were nipping at their heals they mobilised their entire weapons against us. If we all just crawl into the cave then they will strip Scotland bare!
I too don’t know how I’m going to recover from this bereavement, but I know we must!
Take care,
Philippa
It is a sad day indeed when our countrymen voted to remain a colony rather than stand on their own two feet and become a country.
The bitterness will last for years, particularly at the lies and misinformation blatantly spouted by the no campaign and supported by the mass media. The world has seen us for our true colours – shout out load then run away again when it comes to the crunch. To choose to lose instead of win. For anyone who thinks we can maintain any pride and self respect after this; I ask where your evidence is.
A period of reflection is now in order. After that, as patriots we have to battle on, albeit with one hand tied behind our back. I stopped paying my licence fee years ago and will not renew.
Great disappointment. NO won. 55.4%. YES 44.6%. We’ll deserve what we’ll get when our Block Grant is cut; we have to start cutting back on our social services; start to privatise our NHS; under the transatlantic trade and investment partnership (TTIP) American health companies enter into our healthcare market (no longer service); start to pay for prescriptions; Senior Citizens and people on benefits have their free bus passes taken away; our taxes rise etc.. The NO voters will kick themselves when these things begin to happen, but won’t be able to do anything about it.
Sadly, the referendum was stolen by Westminster and Project Fear and the three stooges when they insinuated into people’s minds that they would not really be voting NO, but voting for MORE POWERS for HOLYROOD, the very thing Cameron had refused to permit on the ballot. I’m astonished that the people of our nation should be sovereign for a day, and choose to give that sovereignty to our neighbouring nation. We deserve being mocked by the rest of the world.
RE: voting fraud? CCM:0261083
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Alex Webb (AWebb@electoralcommission.org.uk)
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11:29
To: john king
AWebb@electoralcommission.org.uk
Dear John King,
Thank you for contacting the Electoral Commission. We are aware of this situation, and have raised it with the Office of the Chief Counting Officer.
Responsibility for the conduct of the count lies with the Counting Officer for the local area. Consequently, any concerns about how the count was conducted should be raised with the relevant Counting Officer directly. Contact information can be found at http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk. You can also contact the Office of the Chief Counting Officer for further information:
Office of the Chief Counting Officer
c/o Electoral Management Board for Scotland
Room 206, 59-63 Lothian Chambers
Edinburgh
EH1 1RN
Telephone: 0131 469 3820
Email: elections@edinburgh.gov.uk
I should also note that every campaigner registered with the Electoral Commission was entitled to appoint Counting Agents to attend each local count. Counting Agents are there to observe the verification and counting of the votes and to ensure that the processes are undertaken in an orderly, transparent and accurate manner. If Counting Agents had any concerns regarding the conduct or accuracy of the count they would have been able to raise these immediately with the local Counting Officer.
I hope this answers your query.
Yours sincerely,
Alex Webb
Public Information Support
The Electoral Commission
Tel: 029 2034 6811
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk
Its your choice if you want to jack it in Stu.
I wont be, nor should anyone else, we have a lot of damage to repair and the BBC’s behaviour must be brought to the fore
So proud of my home city of Glasgow in voting YES. Hope the 80 and 90-minute nationalists enjoy singing ‘God Save the Queen’. The ‘Proud Scot-butts’ and the ‘I’m alright Jacks’ can go and eff themselves. You have no idea what you have done to this country, you halfwits. I hope you are all so effing proud of yourselves. You are about to get royally shafted.
Chin up Stu. You did everything you could and more than anyone else ever could. We live to fight another day. Next target 31 SNP MPs in 2015.
I’ve just backed another political loser.Or have I?
I spent the full day yesterday standing outside a polling station watching the unsmiling, pinch-faced No voters as they walked past me to do what I always guessed they would do. The contrast between them and our Yes voting sisters and brothers was truly startling. Energy, hope and confidence, however, were trumped on the day by the dour, enervated,cowed majority. I’ve felt this sense of bewildered defeat before in Scottish politics,all too fucking often!
But stand back for a minute, take a look at the number of us who voted Yes. It is glaringly obvious that all of us, through our unstinting efforts, have helped to give birth to a dissident constituency of massive proportions in this wee country. The abandonment of our bairn will not be forgiven either by history or the generations to come.
Given the number of like-minded people that we have in our ranks, we are in the position whereby we can confidently push forward our democratic agenda and know it will be heard. Heard in the way that only the voices of one-point-six million people can be.
Let’s test our collective strength. Let’s do what Stu says he’s doing. Let’s cancel those t.v. licences,now. It’s a small but necessary start.
Finally, thanks Stu. My gratitude goes beyond words. Get back to us just as soon as you can.
Hi guys.
This has been a morning of heartbreak. I stayed up all night watching in disbelief and horror as the results came in. I have felt betrayed and forsaken, rendered insignificant in the face of the might of the Establishment machine.
My sister who worked tirelessly for YesHighland is devastated. My nieces are sobbing and scared to go to school in case of bullying – many of their friends were nos – all below the voting age btw. Their English cousin has love-bombed them today saying, ‘Thank goodness you decided to stay! It was such a silly idea anyway and now we can remain in our happy family’. (She’s young, she’s idealistic – that used to be a virtue. Let’s not wish cynicism on her so soon.)
We believers are bereft this morning. We feel we have lost home and hearth and respect. What now for us?
But after I got done crying I went out. I am in the fortunate position of living close to Scotland’s bounty – hills, forests, rivers. I went to seek solace, to remind myself of why I love this country so much. The hills welcomed me. They pointed out that they have endured for centuries, and shall for many more.
And you know what? So shall we endure because I really believe that it’s going to be alright.
Stu rightly pointed out that there’s no excuse for ignorance, the information was out there. And that’s what I’ve been thinking; much was made of the YES campaign’s inability to answer the questions. We knew the answers, Salmond undoubtedly knew the answers, yet those answers were not given.
And part of me thinks it knows the reason why.
Think about how awful we are feeling today. Now try to imagine if the vote had gone the other way around; if we had won by that narrow margin. Try to imagine how betrayed and terrified the NO voters would be feeling right now at the looming possibility of being sundered from their safety net. (We might not see WM as a safety net but some of those NOs undoubtedly do.) Now think how much more difficult the birth of a nation would be if we had 45% of the nation against us right from the start.
Yep, disaster.
Whatever you may think of Alex Salmond, the one thing everyone seems to be agreed upon is that he is an extraordinarily gifted politician – as canny and slippery as a snake and harder to pin down.
I am choosing to believe that Alex Salmond knows that, in order to truly flourish we don’t need 55% of the vote – we need a landslide. We need a huge majority not just a working one.
The time was not now.
But.
As a nation, despite how the actual votes turned out, we have been made more aware and more involved in our nation’s policies and politics than ever before. There will be several million pairs of eyes beadily trained upon Westminster from now on to see what, if anything, they deliver from their promises.
(Which aren’t entirely worthless btw – autonomy over NHS Scotland and welfare – if it happens – counts for a very large something in my book.)
We should not, and I pray we will not, go quietly back to sleep and give up. Because the door is not closed. If they renege on any part, there’s a possibility that a way will be found to claim mandate for another Referendum, much sooner than anyone might think looking at it from this bleak horizon.
Alex Salmond, I choose to believe, has a plan. There is a long game here that isn’t quite in sight yet. He needs all of us, or at least the vast majority of us, on side first.
Now is not that time.
We have achieved a lot. Let’s celebrate what is and not what could have been. Let’s rejoice at the exposure of the mainstream media, in particular the BBC, and the political parties we have loyally trusted for decades – as partisan fearmongerers.
Let’s be glad we haven’t subjected the other half of our nation, our country, which I still love and want desperately to feel proud to belong to again, to these same feelings of despair that we are feeling today.
Shrug it off, lads and lasses. Let go of those counterproductive feelings and gear up, there’s still work to do.
We may have lost this battle but my god we have begun the war!
Fear and self interest won last night. I’m beyond gutted. I’m even more pained for the young folk. So many of them really thought they were on the verge of taking control, and creating something new. Something fit for the purposes of their future.
Instead what they got was an abject lesson in Scottish citizenship as it’s always been. I’m used to that. Seeing their hopes and aspirations dashed feels like a stab in the heart.
Up against the entire British state and a compliant main stream media.
Half the country votes for change. F*** that dispondency s***. That’s us half way there.
I’m getting started again. RIC are launching initiatives. I’m in.
Luft yer face and get back on the horse etc etc.
As Buffy Saint Marie once said …’we’re only getting started’.
I know this hurts. But lets also look at it this way.
All we fell short by was 191,969 votes. If we could have persuaded at least that amount of the No voters to vote Yes, then we would have won by a single vote.
Plus 663,477 people didn’t vote. Many of them could have been potential Yessers.
WE HAVE ALL DONE SO MUCH AND COME SO FAR. THANK YOU ALL xXx
Scotland’s changed forever? Not if we chuck it now. From Bella to Bateman, Wings to RIC, National Collective to Labour for Indy, the cause and campaign for a socially just self-determining Scotland is far wider now than the SNP.
And that No vote? Comprises a very large chunk of unicorn-voting Scots-not-Brits waiting to be convinced. I woke gutted this morning. I have cried more than once. But I hugged and kissed both my wee weans today (like I do everyday) and I swore to them I would not give up. I will not let them down. This is not the best possible Scotland for them to grow up in. I will not go quietly. I will not leave it to a top-down Constitutional Convention’ of the UK political and civic elite to hand us down some Crackerjack version of a political settlement; bump the jocks with the tough stuff and we’ll keep the good bits. FUCK THAT.
None of you good, good people on here are going anywhere do you hear me? The 1.6 million need you people. The fearties who voted for the Unionist promise of a Pandora’s Box of powers needs you. We cannot and must not leave this to Salmond, Sturgeon, Harvie, and Canavan. They knocked their fucking pans in to; they need us to keep the movement going. Some of the smartest most insightful contributions in the entire campaign were made on these pages. Your country needs you more than ever. We can come together. Form our own People’s Convention. Write our own ‘Ghost Constitution. A People’s Declaration of what Scotland could and must look like; socially just, outward looking, democratic to the core.
Nothing has changed yet and won’t if we chuck it. Nothing is won. And it is only lost if we admit we’re beaten. Look how far we’ve come!!! The fight goes on. Take a day to feel like shite if you need. Then get back out there chest puffed and remember for the rest of your life that when asked the question “should Scotland be an independent country?”, you stood up and said YES!
Rev Stu – you have been a true inspiration. In the midst of the utter disgrace that is MSM we have depended on you for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I understand you must now need a break, so do enjoy that – you certainly deserve it. But PLEASE do NOT call the whole thing off. We’re going to need you as much as ever in the onslaught that will be Westminster’s punishment. We’re all gutted and hurting sore today, but we rely on you Stu – please don’t abandon what has been for me a real eye-opener into what media can and should be.
We’ll be back. And in stronger numbers.
Hi Stu,
First off, thanks for the opertunity to be the WoS Referendum Agent for Midlothian. It was a experience that I’ll never forget, for many reasons.
Being stood outside my local polling station from open till close gives you a different perspective on your local community.
But without Wings, I wouldn’t have discovered the truth and wouldn’t have become active in YesMidlothain.. Its official, Wings is a gateway drug 😉
take time and have a rest, but do come back. Your bullshit detector in combination with your prose makes this site invaluable.
cheers.
turnbuldrier.
Please, take a much deserved break, but don’t go forever. I live in the US and have really enjoyed your blog for quite some time–a couple of years at least. It’s refreshing, especially here, to get the news honestly from Scotland. All we have access to is the Beeb-America and an hour of biased radio on weekdays, and your site tells it like it is. I haven’t been this sad in a long while, but we need your forthright reporting and calling the liars everywhere onto the carpet. Tapadh leibh.
Thanks Stuart, you did us proud. And in the end we didn’t get what we wanted, but we sure as hell had them rattled.
I hope this site doesn’t go away. Referendum or no, we need people like you to look out for Scotland’s interests. We need to fight for the next best solution. But first, like many have said, take a well deserved rest!
1.6 million votes is no mean achievement but sadly Project Fear worked to frighten the old. Very disappointing result overall although a bit of local pride here in Dundee.
Agree with the above sentiments, we need to keep battling away. BT accuse us of living in the past, so we may as well use past examples.
We went from Stirling Bridge to Falkirk. Now we need our Bannockburn.
Let’s focus on the positives. If AS stands down, at least we have a credible and able deputy in NS to take the wheel.
Labour is finished in Scotland – let’s put the final nail in the Scottish Labour coffin.
Some people will fade away, disheartened that their efforts came to naught – but a core will remain. let’s harness that energy.
Negatives: Although I loved the YES campaign group, there were times when they needed to stop pussy-footing around and start slinging mud back. They needed to find the balance between positive thinking, and being a bastard and getting stuck into BT. Sadly, it didn’t happen.
The fight goes on… I’m up for it
@Colin Ripley – fuck off – the over 65s voted overwhelmingly for No.
They were the demographic who believe the BBC and the MSM.
We were all out busting a gut trying to get the truth out whilst the SLAB troughers were selling their own folk down the river.
We encountered OAPs terrified because as late as this week, they were being told they will lose their pensions AS they were entering the PO to collect them.
Whilst I’m with Morag re no overall fraud I am really suspicious about Dundee, 2 fire alarms, the voting papers were left unattended!1
Also Colin Ripley (Mr??) we were not deluding ourselves, we were trying to be hopeful.
I for one say all pensioners should be means tested and those that can afford it should be charged for everything.
These over 65s have suffered nothing, the vast majority of them were born after WW2 so they didn’t even endure that.
My heart is broken and I haven’t stopped weeping since I woke up.
I am damned if I am going to forgive selfish arseholes – excluding poor pensioners.
Morag, my bundle of those cards are now in the recycling bin. Scotland’s Waste.
Why didn’t the yes campaign set up it’s own pirate radio and television station offshore simple. The Yes campaign was too nice, too polite, too circumspect don’t scare the horses especially the English ones, I would have had them for glue in the first week. But then I’m a Scot from the diaspora what would I know? Apart from the fact that from this day on Scotland’s international reputation of being a fiercely independent brave people has just been destroy in one day. Scotland the Brave, more like Scotland the Scared land of the cringing coward.
And don’t talk bullshit about excuses for old people being scared, the mere fact they are old their experience should overcome bullshit, and since it would obviously be the most important decision you might make in your life you would seek out the pertinent information to make a calculated decision.
Face up to it Scotland you have just been intimidated out of your own land, in my eyes compared to real Scot’s that have gone before you, you are not entitled to carry the name of the land for your identity, far less the privilege of walking her surface. For you are non Scot’s
A complete embarrassment to all of the Scot’s in the diaspora for we have already displayed our self belief and courage by building the great nations of the new world, you can’t even build your own and you don’t have to leave home to do it PATHIC
What country has rejected independence, especially when offered so easily? What country is administered by a foreign power? If you answer Scotland to both these questions you are obviously more intelligent than most Scot’s
For all of my life I have been proud to identify myself as a Scot. not any more for I wouldn’t want anyone confusing me with the domestic Scot’s
I’d sooner castrate myself with a blunt butter knife.
I think the time is approaching where the SG have to tell the people who voted No that they can no longer mitigate the cuts and austerity from Westminster. By voting No we have signed up to at least a decade more of cuts. The social damage this has already caused has been significant. It is time to stop protecting those who have rejected significant self government. They have made their choice and boy are we going to pay a huge price for this lack of responsibility. No doubt a lot of them will blame the SNP, but then what else is new.
Many thanks, Stu. But now we need sites like Wings more than ever. The Scottish media may well go under, but even if it doesn’t, it won’t be as it was, and the internet will be increasingly important.
I knew we’d lost it by the 4th result: Na h-Eileanan Siar. Hugely disappointing. But I’d never really believed the polls could be far out: they sell their services on the basis of getting it more or less right.
I’m not so sure the future is as clear-cut and predictable as you suggest: the situation looks pretty fluid to me. The unionist parties now have to do something, and if there’s delay, and especially if Scotland is going to get a pummelling, then it’s game on again. You may say that’s being optimistic, but I was a hoper, not an optimist, about this result. There is an idea called Catastrophe Theory, based on observations that a system can appear normal, fixed and resistant to all attempts to change it for a long time, until suddenly one extra liittle bit of stress alters it out of all recognition, permanently. A catastrophe which didn’t look possible – straw & camel’s back. Maybe this was it.
If Yes had been outclassed through rational, just and moral argument then perhaps we would deserve to feel ‘defeated’ – and rightly so
…. but we were NOT.
If subjugating ourselves to lies, sneers, maliciously concocted propaganda and utter disregard until they detected their means of succour would be compromised – that is not something to feel any lasting grief, anger or shame for any longer than it takes to regroup and demand at the very least we receive recognition that we are now stronger than before.
Along with other sites (but I must admit to favouritism over this one) we now have well over one and a half million who saw through the unionist sham and we will continue to do so. I suspect, as others above, many Nos may either today or in the very near future rue the day.
Pensioners – I have to agree with Rev Stu – and forgive me and not practicable I but need to say this just to get rid of the thought – I was delighted that the 16-18 year olds were given their franchise being Scotland’s future etc. but here it comes – I always wondered if those over 75 who couldn’t prove impeccable allegiance to the Independence debate – ought to have been barred from voting. Not just, or democratic I know, but the fossilisation of political thinking and behaviour tends to be more apparent as many age.
I now await my reprimand but it’s how I feel.
We can’t let you go Stu, we still need each other with respect.
R.I.P. scotland we shall be on our knees forever now
This guy is going to decide our future.
link to bbc.co.uk
Is he suitable?
Will add my praise to the rest.
You are a talented man who has worked so very hard for a right thing.
A true Scottish hero in my estimation.
Time for reflection indeed. Many are already up for the next battle; they have recovered fast.
I would only take you up on one major point.
I really do not think that the MSM has the right to defend their interests in this way.
Not in a democracy.
the day my interest in politics and my fellow scots died .i wil never vote again as it is pointless now my vote means heehaw
Thanks a million, Stu – you’ve been a giant!
I know in our work place who the No voters are, and there are not many of them, they are the ones today that walk looking at their feet, too ashamed to look anyone in the face, because they lost this for Scotland
Stu, Like everyone else on this thread – I thank you for the herculean effort you have put into this site bringing the brothers and sisters together to create a powerful daily fix.
We are all hurting , but you more than most.
Take all the time you need – I hope to meet again sometime in the land of WoS.
Woke with a heavy heart this morning. I’m sure for many of us this has been a huge part of our lives the last 2 or 3 years.
I really hope Stu continues Wings to hold those devo promise bastards to account over the next year or so.
Maybe we could organise a mass non payment campaign of BBC licence fee to give us something to do.
Not sure what I’ll do this weekend but I wont be reading a paper ever again that’s for sure.
I’ve just written to FIFA to ask if there is any justification for Scotland having an international football team. Shropshire hasn’t got one.
Chill, people.
No big decisions today.
Stu, please keep Wings going.
Land of the gutless selfish,
Land of liars getting their wish,
Land that swallows any old pish,
Scotland the feart.
I am totally depressed and running on fumes (I have the office window onto an open street).
There is no way I’m giving up on Scotland. I couldn’t give a shit how many voted against us being a normal country.
Back to the fumes …
Thanks Rev.
The unionists won with their Better Together/Best of Both Worlds offer.Theyll be judged on their results.
You have a talent for this and a social conscience.Theres plenty need for you.
Can a bunch of ordinary Scots take on the entire British establishment and win their country’s independence? Not this time.Not quite.But with 45% of the vote on a massive turnout we showed the concept of Scottish independence is stronger than its ever been.And it’s mainstream.Quite normal.An awful lot of people voted for the “all the benefits without the risks” illusion.They will be sorely disappointed.What then? They can’t blame us,nor will they blame themselves.I look forward to an independent Scotland.
This is the guy who will decide Scotland’s future. A modern day Duke of Argyll.
link to bbc.co.uk
Is he suitable?
It is disappointing, but don’t be too disheartened. I can remember a time when Scottish nationalism was a joke, so getting 45% of the vote is no mean achievement and shows there is a momentum. I hope you won’t stop this blog, it’s been so helpful in getting the truth out – we clearly can’t rely on the media.
I think one of my God almighty moments came when a friend said she was voting know because her house price would plummet and if there was a YES vote she’d be off a la Michelle Mone.
I am deeply sorry that all those who fancied leaving in the face of a YES vote didn’t just bugger off anyway – had there been a YES vote could any of them be trusted not to work against Scotland had they stayed?
Rev Stu , you have been wonderful and I am so sorry that Scotland has been found wanting . I guess this was my last chance to free my country from the cloying spiders web of this union.
Please take your ease but don’t leave us – we need journalists who tackle lies , manipulation and utter crap.
I’ve hopefully got another 10 years left of fight in me and will do what is necessary to keep this page running and funded, if that is what you decide.
@Colin Rippey
Makes a very strong point. People probably did vote against Independence for the reasons he states. And next time, for there will be a next time, the case for independence should be as watertight as possible.
However, MSM did plenty to raise Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (they should be a firm of solicitors), and should all hang their heads in shame.
As a result people did not vote for the Union, but against Independence; they voted for a negative.
The Establishment, the Corporates and whoever have their snouts in the trough won once again, all without barely raising a finger.
we haven given Westminster an almighty slap in the face. we now dare Westminster not to give is meaningful powers. your website can be at the forefront of this challenge
Ballot Rigging “Evidence”
Folks, get a grip. I wholeheartedly agree with @Morag (11:45 above).
I attended ALL of the postal vote openings (6 days’ worth!), the start-up of the local polling station at 6:45 in the morning and then attended the count as a counting agent. The opportunity for any skullduggery was pretty much non-existent. The footage of the three pieces of “evidence” wouldn’t stand up in court.
The first one of the pile swapping I can accept as a genuine mistake because these poor blighters would have been bleary-eyed by the time they were even an hour or so into the count process.
The second one with the piles of ballot papers in bundles will be, as the twitter feed from the council suggests, an intermediate step leading to the final tally. Each returning officer identifies the name of the process that will be used at the very beginning of the count. Our counting station had eight sets of clearly marked shallow trays for use at each stage. I have no idea which system Dundee used, but it will have been overseen by EC monitoring staff and the use of a stacking table doesn’t seem unreasonable when you see the volume of material being sorted and counted. Our EC monitors were very open about their role and extremely happy to discuss any aspect of the process.
The third one, with the lad “filling in ballot papers and looking shifty”, there are sets of dockets used to identify bundles of papers and also to provide information about WHO SORTED/COUNTED them along with basic tally details. I would defy anyone in a boring, repetitive role like his to NOT have a look around at the other activities in the hall after bundling up the papers. Do you want him to simply sit there and stare (suspiciously) at the table in front of him?
Unless you were ACTUALLY there and witnessing the process I suggest you wind your necks in. These people have done a seriously tedious task in testing and CLOSELY MONITORED conditions open to the glare of publicity and media filming (as you have just seen). They aren’t about to be imbeciles and try to fiddle what would have to be THOUSANDS of votes to make a meaningful difference.
And before you start on me, I am hurting this morning, in a way that I didn’t think was still possible. I am tired and weary after months of intense campaigning in a wide variety of ways and places across Scotland, and fully participating in the ballot monitoring process. The loss of the vote is painful and numbing but, I recognise that there are some areas where suspicions can be raised because of unfamiliarity with the situation shown. There is a vanishingly small probability that significant tampering could have taken place during this process.
1.6 Million are not going to return to politics as usual. They won’t leave controlling the way the live I.e. politics to the politicians. Many no voters will do the same. A change is gonna come.
link to socialistpartyscotland.org.uk
Can I support others who would love the Rev to continue if he has the will? I won’t be paying my TV licence so happy to put that money towards funding something like this that is much needed.
Rev – you are a Scotland football team follower I believe. How many knocks have we had and we carry on?
Anyone know if there’s something happening in George Square today?
Can anyone explain…? Why do people vote in winning numbers for the lying, not-to-be-trusted, thoroughly discredited, unattractive and selfish chancers of the Scottish Labour Party?
I understand the fear of the unknown and that we’re not there yet in convincing the majority that independence is a great grab-it-with-both-hands opportunity (though in this respect I take heart especially from Glasgow, ahead of the curve).
But with the biggest, unprecedented turnouts, hundreds of thousands of people supported Labour with large majorities for their cynical, negative offering? I mean it’s not as if people abstained, or even held their noses – they seem actively to want Labour.
I just don’t get it. Honest explanations on a postcard please…
There’s always this: link to change.org
😮
James123
I am one of the older over 55’s who you are blaming for fucking you over.
Let me tell you you are wrong in that blame game. Me and plenty like me have waited a lifetime to have this chance of Independence and we grabbed it with both hands and voted YES.
Now I have to live with the certain knowledge that I will go to my grave under the yoke of westminster, and the filthy rotten to the core scumbags that infest it.
Instead of blaming the older folk, blame the masses of the “I’m alright Jocks” of all ages, who cannot see that they are one personal disaster from being in the same boat as the very people they despise, the poor, the disadvantaged and the vulnerable.
May their God forgive them, for I NEVER will.
SAOR ALBA GU BRATH!!
Hi Stu, thanks for all your energy and insight and humour over these past weeks and months and years.You certainly deserve a rest and a chance to reflect on what has happened. There is a need for your work among the Scots and Scotland-watchers both at home and around the world (I’m living in Sydney but come from Stirling). I hope you decide to get back into it in the future.
The BBC and the Herald can publish what they like now but people like myself won’t be reading it any more. I think Scottish politics ail be very interesting despite this tragedy. I want to keep watching to see how Scottish Labour move on from here. I used to respect them. Now with a few exceptions they are quite despicable.
I feel I also have to apologise for our PM being such a total wank.
All the best, Andrew, Seaforth NSW
Stu,
please keep the site running, we need some balanced journalism in this country.
We need to form a party bigger than all the others, comprising of the Yes groups.
Together are now three parties working against each other.
Time out Stu, sure, but not too long. Lick your wounds and think hard. We’re all bewildered, angry and rudderless this morning. We all got caught up in our personal utopian visions we wished desperately would come to pass. But in our naivety we forgot. Power that’s held by depraved and corrupt establishments doesn’t roll over and crumble just because hopeful, decent folk have carnivals and play ‘nice people politics’.
Politics is a dirty business, ripping apart the greed at WM’s centre will take an army led by rotweiller generals. Those we have are intelligent but too soft (yep even you Stu) and they need to re-strategise. The ‘I’m all right Jack’ core who got us here need a bloody nose and to do that needs tenacious and politically astute people.
IMHO, Wings is too small, a sole website is a bit of a toothless tiger. To continue this fight it would have to expand and be much more ambitious, probably a self-sustaining business. Scotland needs to be put on the back burner for a while (it doesn’t really exist now anyway). Our scope needs to widen to include other parts of UK where we can gather strength in numbers. Wings could be part of a new multi-modal media enterprise. We’ve all loved our community hall public engagement talks, give us more; a weekly printed version of latest articles (to replace the Daily Mail’s Metro), maybe even a community TV channel as well.
Scotland died last night but ideas didn’t. Big thinking is needed now. Cowering away to await our fate seems a pitiful way to spend our time. Show us your mettle Stu, and if not you, step forward your replacement – please.
24,000 Scots have signed petition to Alex Salmond for a re-vote as a result of electoral fraud allegations – check it out at change.org, sign it, watch the videos online and see what you think?
The BritNats stole it – they knew the result more-or-less before the count even started. All of the BritNats were relaxed and happy and they knew it was in the bag because they cheated.
It is easy therefore to see that MI5 could easily hacke into local authority servers and computers, add the necessary names and addresses and send the phoney postal votes into the count. Accessed the computer records either by bribery of officials or just hacked into them. Easy as pie when you have the people and the resources and willing on-the-ground Labourite ("Tractor" - Ed)s at hand.
They and their chums are more than able to do this – nothing else makes any sense. That is the self-evident explanation.
Just had a phone call from TV licence people asking why I cancelled direct debit took great delight in telling him. Still legal till November but was informed at that time I could not legally watch TV.
My wife wrote this the day before the vote, she’s the brains of the outfit.
link to firstcrusadefictions.blogspot.co.uk
‘Why do people vote in winning numbers for the lying, not-to-be-trusted, thoroughly discredited, unattractive and selfish chancers of the Scottish Labour Party?’
When the alternative is a government of which Jim Sillars is a member, the choice is simple and obvious.
Please, please don’t stop this website. We need you now, more than ever. We can’t give up. There will be no referendum for 20 years, but in the meantime we can work hard to change the UK as it is right now so that in 20 years’ time, our children – and hopefully some of us – will be able to vote for, and achieve, full independence then. Please reconsider.
Just read this on the Tartan Army board from an Irish fan:
“That’s right I’m from the REPUBLIC (Do you know what that is?) of Ireland not some region of Britain that has the audacity to still call itself a country this morning.”
I don’t think even a boot in the goolies would’ve hurt as much.
@James123,
It wasn’t SNP who didn’t put proper DEvo Max on ballot. DC absolutely wouldn’t allow it as he knew it would have won.
We would have voted YES YES while the faint hearts would have voted NO YES and they would have had to give substantial powers (Devo Max generally defined as ALL economic powers but not Foreign policy or Defence) instead of the piffle they might give purely as a way of cutting block grant. Unfortunately all the lucrative taxes will still go to WM.
Well, you could always do one last article on the electoral fraud that was quite obviously happening. It may just be based on intuition but I think a lot of those counts should’ve had more yes votes than they appeared to.
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
link to change.org
Whether you decide to continue or not is, of course, your choice alone and I’m sure everyone will respect it. I’d just like to thank you once again for the effort and time you have put in and wish you well for the future. 🙂
Yesterday, I saw a man with a Naw badge towering over a wee boy (looked 9 or 10 years old to me) who was wearing a Yes badge while poking his finger into the boy’s chest and bellowing at him that he was scum and a ("Tractor" - Ed). I’m not going to lie down and accept that that type of person and his views is representative of Scotland or that he even has a place in our society. 1.6 million vs 2 million isn’t a bad result when you think of the wall of propaganda that was poured out by the media, Westminster and some of our own politicians. We just need to rest and regroup.
We need to make sure that the unionist parties follow through on their promises, form some sustainable independent Scottish media where good investigative journalism becomes the norm, learn from our mistakes and carry on trying to make a better Scotland for us all. By the way, the wee boy simply laughed in the man’s face; he’s our future, the Neanderthal is our past.
Anyway, I’m still a proud Scot – no buts – I damn well voted to have the honour of calling myself a Scot and I won’t let anyone take that away from me nor will I willingly stop calling myself a Scot. We gave the establishment a bloody nose and we’re just turning the page to the second chapter now. Let’s recoup, learn our lessons, get our baws to the wheel (so to speak) and carry on working to see a better Scotland for us all and particularly for brave wee kids who laugh in the face of fully grown men trying to intimidate them.
I suppose it’s better to live in servile ignorance. Only in the fullness of time will people realise what the NO vote has consigned us to. We had a very real opportunity to get out from under a government and a parliamentary system that only wants our natural resources and a place to hide it’s shame. I feel embarrassed for people who didn’t have the common sense to see the NO campaign for what it was and cowered to its fear mantra. I will never forgive or forget 99.9% of the UK broadcast and print media.
Agree with almost everything you said, Tony Little. Only now I can bring myself to speak about it. Like you, I am feeling bitter this morning. Also ashamed, for the second time in my life, of my fellow Scots. Such a chance, without bloodshed, to stand up and take the chance to run our country. Tossed aside for what? Fear over hope? Age over youth? Security [ha!] over risk?
Like you I am sorry for everyone who did their best. At least there is 45% of us still on board the indy train. It is a fair number – greater than when we started. I really fear that nothing of substance will be done and the No brigade, scared out of their wits, will have shown them the way. They have paved the way for the deceitful liars to bluster and bluff and leave us with nothing gained.
“Our fellow Scots deserved better.” That’s where I disagree. We deserved better from our fellow Scots. I hope they can look in the mirror when the results of this tossed away chance hits home; Cameron is already at it, and the young, poor, disabled, vulnerable will take the hit while the ‘I’m all right, Jack’ brigade sail onwards and upwards.
Too upset to say any more. Just want to weep. Good luck, WosS friends!
The battle is lost …but the war isnt over …continue ….
So gutted. Find it hard to accept so many fellow Scots actually don’t rate Scottish Independence as a prize worth taking a chance on. I find that totally bewildering.
Looking for a way forward, Derek Bateman tweeted this : @DerekBateman2: @JacksonMSP I think Yes morphs into a citizens group for change short of independence. As do I. So the brand continues. It holds to account
Finally, Stuart, I think the practicalities of engaging the many who did vote Yes would have been impossible without your rigorous journalism and magnificent work ethic. It really shouldn’t be allowed to wither away. As some other folk once said what seems like years ago “please don’t go”.
The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they’re being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.
You don’t need a licence if you don’t use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they’re being shown on TV – for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.
Well we are playing England at Hampden in an ‘international’ friendly in a few weeks time. How can any ‘Proud Scots but’ sing Flower of Scotland without feeling shame? The English fans are rightly going to take the absolute piss out of us.
Don’t forget, Cameron’s little Englander fudge will stitch up Scottish Labour as well.
We can’t wait to see what we’re offered. We are sovereign. We need to tell westminster how it’s going to be, and what will work for us.
No more dictats from the unelected Ermine Vermin that scurry about Westminster..
This site is a microcosm of the new Scotland I hoped to see.
Folk from every political party and none. Straights, gay bi and trans. Rich folk, poor folk, working, unemployed and retired. Folk from every corner of the UK and furth. Old folk, young folk, middle aged and the unborn.
I don’t want to see that sacrificed at the alter of greed and fear.
Sorry for the rambling, but i’m quite emotional today.
NO GIVING IN TO THE BASTARDS!
I was at the count in Kelso last night. I arrived hopeful and within only a couple of hours it all came cashing down and I was trapped in a room with cheering Tories.
But, Stu please dont give up. You have a gift for this. I relied on your writing to help me campaign, it was my first read in the morning and last at night. I will never buy a paper again and am about to cancel my TV license. I will happily renew my subscription. We lost because our people were afraid and our media printed lies. I am afraid for Scotland, but I dont think we should give up.
Westminster is finished, their lies and false promises will strangle them. Then is the time for the coup de gras. IMO we need to stay together and strike when the elite have totally messed the whole thing up through selfishness and greed. Won’t take long.
I am very proud of everything and everyone who created the yes coalition. True proud Scots. I ain’t going nowhere I’ ll be ready for the call.
Here’s a breakdown of Scotland’s pathetically indifferent population …
About 132,000 (3%) of Scotland’s voting population care so little about their own country, they can’t even be bothered to register to vote.
About 664,000 (15%) of Scotland’s voters who did register, clearly don’t care for Scotland either way so even when they had elected to have a vote, they too, just couldn’t be bothered to cast it. Maybe there was a repeat on the telly they just didn’t want to miss or perhaps they had an important appointment at the hairdressers?
So far then, 796,000 (18%) of all the people in Scotland, that’s nearly 1 in 5, who are eligible to vote don’t give a shit about anything; except perhaps about the price of beer or fags?
Of those that did get off their arse to actually vote, 2,001,926 (55%) voters say they like their sovereignty in the hands of the London Establishment & are delighted with the current arrangement whereby they send their taxes to London & get some pocket money back, while Westminster executes whatever policies the marginal seats in the South East of England prefer.
Only 1,617,989 (45%) voters then, think that the current arrangement is deeply flawed, unfair & needs to be changed.
So the actual ratio of people who voted YES as a proportion of the entire population of eligible Scottish voters (4,416,415) is a lousy 37%.
Thus, just over a 1/3rd of the people in Scotland actually acted to deliver a message that they think there might just be a better alternative to the status quo.
It is a stunning achievement of the British Establishment, aided & abetted by it’s corrupt BBC broadcaster & self serving print media that it was able to convince so many Scots that they actually live in a country which serves them better than any alternative they could possibly imagine, even when the evidence is staring them in the face from just over the other side of the North Sea.
Well done Britain.
If he were still alive today, George Orwell would be proud of your text book delivery.
So it begins…vote for labour. Please know I voted YES for independence and I told her where to go…
Thank you.
This was a long and very hard-fought campaign, one in which we carried ourselves with dignity, with pride, and with passion — and it is through your votes and your hard work that we secured this result today.
We achieved immense things together — since January, Labour No volunteers spoke to over 500,000 people on the doorstep and contacted millions more. Our red campaign bus became a permanent fixture on the Scottish landscape, travelling over 11,000 miles and making more than 350 campaign stops.
This is a time to celebrate our success and the strength of our campaign, but also to reflect on and begin to heal the divisions that have been caused in our country.
And we must recognise too that whether people voted Yes or No yesterday, they were voting for change. Not just words, not just promises, but change absolutely delivered.
It is my total commitment to deliver that change — beginning with more powers for the Scottish Parliament. They will strengthen both our nation and the United Kingdom as a whole.
And in eight months’ time, we must bring change to the whole UK by electing a Labour government.
I’m so proud of everything we have achieved together in this campaign. Thank you.
Johann
Johann Lamont
Leader of the Scottish Labour Party
Thank you Stu for your magnificent effort. Have a good rest but please come back to work.
It is a sad morning, I have an 11 year old who was deeply engaged and excited by this referendum. Today she is a little despondent. But now is not the time to let this go. There are a generation of kids who deserve better and we must carry this extraordinary movement forward and hold those that wield power to account in anyway we can. We must ensure that we empower the young to make better decisions then many of us could. We need to make the arguments better and develop new media outlets via the internet. Yes has shown that you don’t need TV channels or newspapers, you need belief and the internet.It is telling that, allegedly, 71% of 16-17 year olds voted Yes, 1600000 voted yes. Don’t let the anguish of this defeat extinguish the light.
Having a hugely constructive meeting in the YES shop in Dunoon. We are not giving up. Talking about the way forward. A coalition for YES at next year’s general election? Putting up candidates who have declared for independence regardless of party affiliation?
Not much more to be said Stu. You made a huge contribution to the campaign. Let’s take some time to see what the future brings and how we should react. Was proud to march with you behind the wings banner in Edinburgh last year.
Thanks for everything you have done for our country, Stu. Keep at it – we’ll be needing you more than ever.
New target acquired: The Labour Party
Bluedog. Fuck off you scumbag.
No decisions today.. i am angry.. but still determined. I am 50 , and still firmly believe it will come in my lifetime.
Apart from anything else , the shit is going to hit the fan in some way in the next couple of weeks, and they WILL lie and cheat and try to hide many things.. we MUST stay vigilant.
James123, please don’t blame all of the over 65’s,Hubby and I are both pensioners and yes voters. I’m really sick to my heart by the utter betrayal and selfishness of some of them
I agree withe the Rev, the information was out there, they have no excuse but their own bloody selfishness. I fear now for the future for my children and grandchildren.
I don’t think that I’ll ever forgive them. Heard Milliband waffling on the radio when I was at the hairdressers, the lassie thought she was going to have to tie me down I was that mad and disgusted.
Take time out Stu, you deserve it. You have worked so hard for all of us, and it certainly is a kick in the stomach. We need time to mourn, and that’s what it feels like just now. Woe betide any no voter who dare moan to me about what’s coming down the line. You deserve all you get, so suck it up. Cowards, selfish cowards.
Oh by the way Colin Ripley, thanks for your crocodile tears, now get tae fuck and gie’s peace. I don’t often swear, but I think he warrants it.
Thanks Rev. You helped me make a few converts. Too few I’m afraid.
I’m absolutely sure you will be needed over the coming months to highlight and cut through the gross spin and lies that will come thick and fast in the wake of this disaster.
The people of Scotland will need your help if they aren’t to disappear completely.
Thanks again.
Just saw the words *Scotland Forever* in a post above. How about that for the name of a movement or party?
Btw of those 55% some few will be dyed-in-the-wool unionists, more will have been confused, sentimental or misinformed, others will actually have believed the ‘extra powers’ were real, and some would have been plain scared or threatened. We have to win them over (well all but the first category) not alienate them. We have to use the events about to unfold to open their eyes. Accept that although they hurt you, unlike Our Masters they mostly didn’t have it in for you. Most will have acted out of ignorance not spite. We’re going to need their support if we’re to win our final freedom.
Keep it going, Rev Stu. It’ll take time to recover after massive effort but real gains were made. The task though was huge, as Doug pointed out.
I’ve heard long before that the referendum was probably five years too early as Scotland still didn’t have confidence in running its own affairs with the parliament. I think that’s what we saw in the results. A lot of effort got us far, but not far enough in the time needed.
It’s grim for now but there will be other democratic paths and chances eventually. Hold on to the success of getting 45% people behind indy and the fact that that’s a large number who now have higher expectations and standards of WM. Even some of the 55% will likewise have expectations of promises delivered or they will be outraged.
Congratulations to the BBC, Orange Order, BNP, Conservative Party, the Liberals and especially the Labour Party. You won handsomely, and we all lost. Now, let the UK’s retribution begin. 1979 will look like chicken-feed, but it’s what we as a region voted for.
Been trying to rally the team again this morning, took me a few hours, but I put the boots back on.
I’m not done. Nors this lassie.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Although I’ve been campaigning for independence for many a long year, there were two moments in this campaign that hardened my resolve to keep going, no matter what.
The first was, although Cameron insisted time and again that this was a matter for the people of Scotland, he made it UK government policy to keep Scotland within the UK, allowing the full resources of the state to be harnessed against us. Thus we saw – despite the appearance of democracy – the Union (of which we are a part) turning against its own people.
The second was that, despite the Electoral Commission’s request that both sides should inform voters of what would happen after the vote, the UK government never produced any equivalent to the White Paper. Combined with the refusal to pre-negotiate, request EU opinion, ask for OSCE observers, etc – this left many voters facing uncertainty – a point which was then driven home effectively by No.
So the appearance of democracy was subverted by the very government of which we are a part. The UK govt is an old hand at this kind of thing – a lot more subtle than those countries which directly forbid self-determination, but no less effective.
We need to consider how best to match this over the medium term. One way is to use the powers we have to drive Scotland’s increasing divergence from the UK until it becomes even more obvious than it is now that it is an utterly different country. For me, the priorities are now to push for a new structure for local democracy, and to tackle radical land reform. Both are possible with the powers we already have.
Great post, GH Graham. Spot on.
Stuart,
As i write this with tears blinding me, thanks for all your hard work and dedication.
I am deeply ashamed that my one day only country men and women let this slip past.I will no longer refer to myself as a Scot. I have been rendered British and shall never forgive them for bottling it and the BBC for their fucking deciet.
Thanks to all my fellow wingers and good luck to you all.
Andy
I would like to think that wings will go on,help voters remember who the real enemy of progress is come the 2015 general election. Not for revenge on Labour especially,but to remind ourselves who was against Scotland nine months earlier.
Rejecting independence,here neighbour,have my wallet and run my affairs for me,and don’t forget to take some for yourself,eh?
‘But let’s not engage in vainglorious denial. This is a story of failure. Our best efforts fell short.’ Stuart Campbell
This is correct as far as it goes, Rev Campbell, but it still fails to address the single most corrosive element in every Scottish campaign since the 70s – that is naivety.
The SNP cannot deliver independence, as it has NO intention of delivering independence. The real shock is that it came so close to unwittingly doing so. Independence is beyond Salmond’s ambitions, and well beyond his nous or courage. The YES campaign took off in spite of the SNP, and in no small part because of the efforts of this site.
And those who wish to deride Colin Rippey’s post (above) would do well to read it again. Until you can process those hurtful words and have REAL answers, and furthermore be able to communicate those answers (despite an antagonistic press) to a deferential unionist electorate then there can never be independence. And indeed, nor should there be.
For my own part I think WOS has potentially set the foundations of a truly progressive alliance party to challenge both Labour and the SNP at the next polls. That is the only crumb of comfort here.
I can only hope the Rev Campbell picks himself off the deck (quite understandable given his efforts) and grasps the thistle a soon as possible before the very real momentum dies. The door is still open, don’t let Cameron et al fool you, but it will close again….
I feel sick today but 1.6 million now support independence and many No voters will be disillusioned when the devo outcomes are known. I think the SNP should position themselves as a single issue group for 2015 and if necessary 2016, all or nothing, a vote for them means a declaration of independence if they gain a majority. That would also avoid the poison chalice you speak of if they lost.
I am heartened by the comments on Twitter today.
The Yes Movement seems to be minded to re-group and continue the fight.
What to do? I am 74, a life-long Labour supporter and YES voter. I will now do everything I can in my remaining years to support the SNP with resource and time. We MUST elect SNP MPs and MSPS. The SNP is the ONLY viable opposition to Westminster’s common far right ideology which UK Labour (and Lamont’s Labour) and the LibDems share. Indeed, there is but one Westminster ‘party’ – the Unionist Party soon to be joined in parliament by UKIP. I am so disgusted by the lack of principle of the NO vote ….. me, me me.
All the folk banging on about vote rigging – forget it. even if it was, we will never prove it – it’s a distraction.
We will just look like whinging losers to add to the other negative adjectives coming our way.
As for the Scotland v England game coming up – God help anyone attending that.
The fact is folk preferred to believe Jo La and clunking fist Broon – you can’t fight against ingrained stupidity and fear.
All those Proud Scots will now be a laughing stock around the world.
Apart from the fact that my 2 daughters live here I would leave tomorrow.
I am going to move somewhere close by, maybe Ireland but I will not stay and fight for the selfish and the fearful.
As someone said earlier – Flower of Scotland. Scotland the Brave needs to be dropped and never sung again until it is true.
BTW I will take no criticism for ex pats living abroad, you left, we choose to stay and fight.
Rev – I have no idea if you’ll see this comment amongst all the others , but if you do , let me say thank you for all your effort . Like you and many others 1.6 million of us , I am gutted to say the least , I went to bed angry and have been for most of the day , how on this earth can people vote against their own country , how can anyone vote against their own people ! My head will not accept that fact . It does accept however that 55% of the people live their lives in fear of the unknown , fear of fear pathetic . It does also show that by voting no , they see themselves , their kids and family , past , present and future Scots as secondary to the Great British state .
Rev – keep this place going , what you have done here has scared the living crap out of the establishment , the information you provide and the way you present it , cannot be lost . Even though we lost this round , we still have the so called powers to come , and the in out referendum on Europe . We need our own media , an you like many others that have brought the fight for Scotland , can be that media . Think about the possibilities . Thanks Rev .
Rev, please stay – we need you now more than ever.
I’ve not got the heart to read through all the comments after such a bitterly disappointing night. As I sure others have said though Stu, you’re right to take a break and a step back before you decide how to proceed. Wings has had it’s faults at times but it’s been a beacon of light shining into the dark, illuminating the truth that our gutless MSM ignored. We’re still going to need that in the coming months and years, even if the focus has to change slightly. If you do decide to continue, you’ll find me ready and willing to continue to help fund your efforts.
The Police have informed me that there has been several complaints about fraud which they are investigating.
It would be good if many more of us could make the same complaint, so they would have fewer chances of fudging it.
I have, but please let us all do it, that might prompt some real actions. These people who did this should be interviewed as to just who gave them the instructions. Cameron on tv just prior to the start, seemed well pleased with himself and saying he was confident of a NO. That BT had done enough to win. Did he know something? Did the Bookies also know?
Complaints folks, we need to get this into the public eye.
When the alternative is a government of which Jim Sillars is a member, the choice is simple and obvious
Sillars isn’t in the govt you dick
As a life long supporter of independence I am of course disappointed however the focus now is on ensuring the Westminster elite deliver on their promises of further powers to all the constituent nations of the United Kingdom.
For me that means full fiscal automony with all the revenues raised in Scotland being paid to Scotland and then our fair share of the reserved powers such as Defence, national security and Foreign Affairs agreed and paid annually to Westminster. The House of Commons to become the English parliament and the House of Lords to become the supreme senate of the UK directly electing reresentatives by proportial representation like in Scotland to be the Government of the UK
Yessers this is not the time to disband but to keep up the fight to ensure the promises are kept delivered and work.
As for independence that baton passes to the next generation we need to now consolidate the advances our cause has won for our people.
The sovereign will of the people must be respected in both defeat and victory. Our democracy has been strengthened not weakened, our resolve is undiminished our people are a beacon for peaceful change in a troubled world.
Be proud, be strong , be Scots!
It is nothing to do with ballot rigging by the way.
When people, in a family, a club, an organisation or a country have power, they will NEVER give it up unless it is torn from their cold dead fingers. You watched that.
The Establishment had the power of the banks, the businesses, the politicians grasping everything in their reach. History shows that if Power is determined to keep it, they will do absolutely everything, no matter how disgusting, to keep it.
I don’t feel happy saying this, but that is realpolitik. The only bright spot is the wonderful up movement of the grassroots, growing and growing, till it could chokes the parasites. Slow and difficult, and we need to rest and regroup, but that 10% gap is not so big. It won’t be very soon and all these new voters must be kept on board.
I can’t get my head round what has happened yet, and have listened to all the ‘too big a gamble’ brigade all morning. So angry and so sad to hear. Am going to reread comments here, look at all the positives on our old and new industries on YES ads on YouTube to try and find some brightness to get me through today. Then there is always tomorrow …..
Bluedog, you and your ilk will rue your narrow visioned decision
UK EU exit.
Phoenix over Scotland.
We can’t lose heart. The old get old, and the young get stronger.
I think we should hold a mass Yes campaign rally all across Scotland. Get the message out. If you think we’re going away, you are very wrong.
@goulashman
Until there is a new truly progressive alliance party, or the SNP radically changes its spots (and its stupid, antagonistic nationalistic name, which puts off more voters than it attracts – and makes it a sitting duck for sniping), the independence movement is doomed. I made a call earlier for the Rev. to start building that new political party based on the momentum created by WOS. We can but hope he is equal to the challenge…
It’s the blackest day in Scotland’s history. Our parcel of rogues fades in comparison to yesterday National Capitulation. We will be remembered as Generation No and that is a wound that will never heal.
However, we were not defeated by the Government, we were defeated by the British Media, the real heavyweight in this referendum and all elections that have come and gone. But, they paid a price for it. The media is only as strong as its reputation and that has been damaged beyond repair. It may be the winner today but its future is bleak.
That is why Wings of Scotland, NewsNetScotland, etc must survive. They must be there to fill the void left by the media. 45% That’s what you achieved. You convinced 45% that independence was possible. We only need another 6%. Optimism yes, but don’t throw away what you have worked hard to earn. 45%. Keep up the good work.
I’m devastated today, even ashamed but I won’t give up. I haven’t bought a paper for two years. I will never by one again. And, I will be cancelling my TV license and Sky subscription too. That’s how we win. We refuse to feed the beast.
Watch out Westminster and the MSM
I’m angry now-
link to youtube.com
Well it’s hard for me to see a political future for me in Scotland now. The SNP are now going to be a spent force, what do they campaign on principally now? Independence in generation? The result will only attract more damaging vitriol anyway. This is an untold disaster on the movement. Many of the groups and links will now break, and there is nothing left to campaign for civically the issue will be buried. The people in a daze with dashed hope hold the balance for the future to an extent, I imagine many withdraw, but I think we need to ponder what this will do to the Scottish identity over the long run.
Westminster parties and politicians will hold the show and give short term courting but I think we all know that they weren’t greatly trusted in the first place. I don’t want to see more pain coming Scotland’s way, but I do think that the SNP should quit. They will become toxic if the outlook for what is to come is correct. Yes we’re inspiring, but buckled several times and did not present at their best on media and also to a certain extent local campaigns too.
Dark day indeed. A lot of effort for generations to simply put ourselves back in the box. Holyrood is going to be a bear pit and something I have no wish to look at. I do not have a TV and will skip the media for a while, but I have to say I feel slightly disconnected at the moment. I cannot even begin to think about getting involved much at all in Devolution II politics. I can’t decide if we hit the reset switch or dropped it entirely.
Personally, I have to think about other things now. Wings is and has been awesome, I remember finding a black coloured personal blog with some sharp dissection and a certain punchy wittiness to it, and bookmarked it to keep an eye on… You managed a shit load Stuart and was a pleasure to meet and march, my wee blue book and wings badge will stay with me for life sadly for what will be memories of what could have been. We tried. My thoughts are with everyone, Holyrood was a wake last night.
One lesson learned is that the majority folk must yearn for independence and WANT a Ref. to get it.
Not having a Ref. and then trying to convince folk about it.
Already Scotlands wishes tossed to the mercy of an unelected lord,that’s the last we’ll see of that for a long time. When he reports,a very different animal will emerge,more powers,aye right.
We are down but not out. Not sure where Devo More is going but Cameron’s speech and the appointment of Lord Smith to oversee it seems to suggest that it might be more root and branch than Labour’s Devo Nano. This vote and our 1.6m votes might yet be a watershed in UK politics. A Parliament in charge of tax and benefits is a better place than where we are. The timescales are tight we need to participate in this process and make sure our voices are heard. It isn’t our first choice but we need to ensure it is the best second choice going.
Congratulations to the 55! Here’s what you voted for:
Surrender of sovereignty
Nuclear weapons
Trident
Aircraft carriers
Privatised health care
Return of prescription charges
Tuition fees
Illegal wars
Scottish men and women being killed and maimed
Food banks
Austerity
Continuing poverty
Means testing
Corrupt bankers
Biased state-controlled media liars
Fewer Scottish MPs
Rule by a self-interested Tory elite
Big business government
Further exploitation of our country’s resources
No job creation schemes
Puppy dog political parties in bed with their Westminster cronies
Ah, but you did it because you love the UK and think we’ll be better together!
Shame on you.
For me, Alex Salmond was out of his comfort zone. He is a politician and conducted himself like a diplomat instead of someone fighting for his survival.
All of the YES campaign behaved like diplomats throughout the campaign.
The lack of passionate rebuttal to the avalanche of propaganda failed to convince enough of the Labour diehards that the NO campaign were the true liars.
THANKS, Stu, I am one of the middle aged dreamers that hoped THIS time Scotland would seize the chance with both hands. You gave hope to people when quite frankly there was very little available. You truely have been a “Candle in the Dark” to paraphrase the late, great Carl Sagan.
History has shown me what the British Establishment does to those who try to stand up to them. The hard times they are definitely coming, Heaven help the vulnerable and the sick!
msean
He is supposed to report by November…we need to keep our eye on this ball. It isn’t the long grass we need to worry about it is a track so fast we can’t see the ball.
We need this site for the tough times ahead till the election. What “new powers” will we be getting (yes I know but we have to take them at their word).? Somebody has to keep on educating the people about the true state of the country. This site was a revelation to me this year and I do think people will need the support. We can’t let the same old thieves and liars carry on as normal.
I want to thank you Stu from the bottom of my heart for all that you have done over the last few years. It is an undoubted FACT that without you and your ceaseless work on Wings none of us here today would have managed to achieve even a fraction of what we did.
We are all gutted just now, and you no doubt more than most. I would hope that after you have had a well earned break from Wings and you have had time to think things through you will return to Wings refreshed. All of us on here need a leader, someone with the knowledge and ability to get things done. You Stu are that person.
We are all in mourning just now for the country that we loved but is now gone, a country that hopefully may one day return. Until that day I feel like I am a Stateless person. I refuse to be called British and my beloved Scotland no longer exists replaced by a new one, North Britain.
I wish you all the best in your time away and hope that in a short period of time I will again be reading some fantastic articles written by the Rev Stuart Campbell.
Boris is PM and Farage is deputy, stick your head between your legs and Kiss Scotlands arse goodbye. This is why we must keep up the fight, stick together and become stronger, we will rise again, think positive in the meantime we must get the best deal for the people of Scotland
Guess who has been put in charge of drawing up devolution plans?
William Effin’ Hague
William Hague speaking in 1997, “A future Tory government could hold a further referendum to reverse devolution if a Scottish parliament is a disaster. Scottish voters should look to the future and that four or five years into a Scottish parliament they would be disappointed, disillusioned and depressed, and living in a high tax ghetto.”
Tam Jardine,
“Was there another referendum going on I didn’t know about?”
Yes, there was. There was the one you thought you was happening where the Yes campaign was totally right about everything, did not have serious weakness and the only reason anyone could possibly vote no was because they were HOODWINKED BY THE SYSTEM, MAN and then there was the one that was actually occurring.
I don’t say this to question your intelligence, when you’re part of a movement with such passion, such drive and such self-righteous certainly that they’re *right* it’s so easy to get swept up in that and lose sight of how people not in the same bubble perceive the issue in question, and that makes it very difficult to persuade them effectively or even understand how they’re thinking. Again, not an uncommon phenomena. I am not calling you a moron for having succumbed to it, it happens to us all and we have to constantly be on guard for it. It’s part of the psychological make up of humans – we are a social species at the end of the day. As I said, group-thinks a bastard.
From my perspective over from just over the boarder, I saw a Yes campaign almost totally divorced from reality. On one level I don’t know how anyone could honestly claim that they were running a positive campaign, then spend approximately 85% of their waking hours talking about what bad guys the Tories were and using “Westminster” like a swearword (the SNP have been running on this schick for decades, maybe by the next referendum in about 2050 they’ll have figured out that it doesn’t work), or how anyone could, with their bare faces hanging out, accuse anyone else of scaremongering then turn round and go “THE TORIES ARE GONNA PRIVATISE THE NHS!11!!!” and “THE TORIES GONNA PUNISH SCOTLAND FOR NO REASON!!11!!”.
But of course I *do* know. When you surround yourself with people who think the same as you, and when you’re therefore comfortable dismissing any opposing out of hand without really addressing it them, in your own mind, you’re not ‘being negative’ or ‘scaremongering’, just stating the truth. After all, how can it be scaremongering if it’s true? But what you can’t see are the assumptions that underlay the truth as you see it, and how others might not share them. For example, did you know that not everyone takes ‘The Tories are inherently evil’ as an axiomatic truth? Even people who don’t vote Tory, and would never vote Tory? Like, maybe some people can understand how people could disagree with them without being monsters? And if you base your arguments on that assumption without recognising it as an assumption (or rather an opinion), then you will not be able to persuade or even talk to people who don’t share it.
And then you lose.
Handandshrimp
I believe tax and benefit powers are a poisoned chalice. It appears we are promised powers to raise tax but not to lower them, and yet we have no powers over revenue from our riches such as oil.
It will be an unusable power.
I think the first priority for the Yes movement should be to morph into an official and organised anti-BBC campaign. If we all cancelled our licence and paid it into an online TV channel combining all the talents of the movement – journalism, arts, satire etc.
Roughly 1.5m people voted Yes, if just 30,000 of us did that, that’s approx £4m per year! This would need to be done quickly, while all the grassroots networks are in place.
We might have been beaten by the British Establishment, but we scared the shite out of them in the process and ran them close.
Stu.
I fully agree with everyone above. Now we need you more than ever. Go, have a rest, then come back stronger than ever. The no voters who voted because they thought they were doing the right thing now need to be told when the promises are broken. That way, things may change.
For myself. I can forgive most no voters. They thought they were doing the right thing. But I will never ever forgive the lying deceitful bastards who brought this about for their own gain. Winter is coming and there will be a run on ermine. Things could be worse if you were a stoat.
we have bonds that can never be broken.
over 1.6m people.
truth may have been defeated this time, and sure time decays us, in many ways.
it’s early days, they may have halted this, for which they called “crisis”, but we now have our collective eyes open.
we will find our balance shortly, they will not, of that i am certain!
i am reminded today of what alan bissett said dec13.
link to youtube.com
Independence is beyond Salmond’s ambitions, and well beyond his nous or courage
Eh! are you for real. Alex Salmond cares more about Scotland and the people of Scotland than any other politician alive. Without him we would never have had the chance to answer the question. It’s now been answered and we find ourselves sharing North Britain with a load of shitebags and pish talkers like you
Trying really hard to be optimistic, but failing. That was it. I don’t think we’ll see that sort of turnout again – it will go back to the usual mid 50s if we’re lucky.
I predict Alex will resign. I don’t want him to, but there will be pressure. It will be seen as an SNP failure. The media will spin it as the SNP in disarray. They’ll be savaged at Holyrood for not doing what they can now (eg the childcare pledge), whether there’s any truth in it or not. They’ll be savaged for wasting time & money on the “folly” of a referendum.
We will soon be caught up in the General Election circus and this will all be forgotten about. It will be Tory-BAD, Labour-GOOD, and whatever remnants of voters that can be arsed voting are left, will mostly be the idiotic “monkey in a red rosette” type (witness the old woman on C4News), because we’ve got to be saved from the Tories again.
I am gutted. I feel like my children have been robbed of a better future all because when it comes down to it, people don’t care enough, they don’t want to find out the answers, because it’s too much hard work, and really, they’re ok so why rock the boat?
I’m sure in a week or 2 I’ll be over it too, and it will be a “nice story” I tell to my baby girl about the day I took her to vote for Scotland to be Independent, strapped to my back, waving her wee flag.
THE END
SCOTLAND DIED LAST NIGHT
i hope the no voters get boiled in their own piss
Tartan army discussing a silent protest at next Georgia game
link to tartanarmyboard.co.uk
Can you imagine what the England game will be like….
I still can’t believe this. I’ve had hardly any sleep and now at work for the whole weekend. Very flat atmosphere; no-one has even mentioned what happened.
I agree with a great many of the points above. We have 1.6 million supporters for a free and independent Scotland. Somehow we need to keep going.
I suggest that at every local, national or any other election only voting for candidates/parties who support independence. We need to finally deal with SLAB. I can’t wait to see my MP, Mister Murphy, kicked out on his arse next May.
Well said Colin Rippey. Napoleon said if you control the currency, you control the people. So either the pound has to break and not be worth holding on to, or the nature of currency has to change. Neither of these are unthinkable.
The thing that bothers me the most is that all of the reasons for a No vote this time could have applied 100 years ago (swap the empire for the EU) and will still apply fifty years hence, And they are virtually unanswerable. Unless the UK leaves the EU, and the pound in the pocket is worthless.
@kininvie
Agreed completely. Radical land reform must now be on the agenda. We have absolutely nothing to lose. We need to break the power of the large landowners and give land back to the people.
Kid Spotlight – I take you point – entirely. What you say about the need for an alliance of all the elements of the Yes Campaign to form a strong, broadly based Party ideologically opposed to the Unionist would be ideal – and I would support it immediately, and at the first hint that such could emerge, will support with every energy and resource I possess. But until then, the SNP, despite being hampered by its name and this sad failure, is the only viable hope in a threatened Scotland now reduced to being a diminished colony of Westyminster
gillie
I think Hague’s job is to look at English devolution and possibly the settling of the West Lothian question. Lord Smith is handling Scottish devolution. I think Cameron may be about to make things trickier for Miliband…although Scotland may benefit in the process.
There are cunning plans going on here. Our mission (should we choose to accept it) is to ensure that Holyrood comes out of this improved and strengthened.
@Tim Ward – I’ve got an idea why don’t you take Trident down to wherever it is you live and where your kids play eh? no so much noise Tim ya numbnut
link to freecriticalthinking.org
Unity is what’s needed here. BT want us to tear ourselves apart with finger pointing and blaming each other.
Don’t give them the satisfaction. We lost. We’ll deal with it. Let’s calm down for a few days, regroup, and plan on how were going to bounce back.
British identity is slowly eroding. Pensioners who voted NO, members of the post-war British consensus, won’t be around forever. That the young voted in droves for yes should fill us with heart for the future.
We’ll win in the end. The drip drip drip of extra powers for Holyrood will eventually led to a dam that bursts through and wins the day for us.
Thank you Stu, contributors and readers. Thank you campaigners. Thank you supporters in the UK and beyond.
Most of all thank you to the 45% who voted for hope over fear, responsibility over dependency.
Stuart, take a couple of weeks off. You deserve it, but at times, life gives us a bitter pill to swallow. Yep, we are all hurting, none more so than you after the commitment you put in. If you can …vanish somewhere for a few days, and just get it out of your system.
Back up here, the mood is a very muted one amongst one and all, and that is both camps. You’re right; there are no winners. Having spoken to a few folk this morning at work, the folk that voted Yes are to say, not too pleased, while those who voted No are not being triumphalist. They know the ball is back in their court. They keep saying ‘changes are coming’. I smile, and give a nod, but then point out that, ‘well, Westminster may not keep their pledges, so what then?’ You can even see it in their eyes that the real possibility that Westminster may renege is now becoming a truth, and that it may haunt many of them. For you, me, and every other person who voted ‘Yes’, that is not a cross we have to carry.
I’ve had a quick glance through a couple of posts here, and I quite like the idea of a ‘Wings / Yes Scotland’ political party being an option. That for you, Stuart, could be the beginning of a new venture. Is it possible to create a party? With funding (from us), it might just be possible. Small steps …well, we’ve done that …maybe it’s time to take a few more and see where it goes….
Anyway, take a break, mate …you truly, truly deserve it.
To everyone else on here who fought the good fight. I applaud you all. We can hold our head high. We fought for a higher ideal to make a better nation, and therefore it’s something that we should each cherish deeply. You are …all of you who tried to make a better nation …the flower of Scotland.
Right folks I know you’re all going to shoot me down in flames here but hew I am STILL the village idiot around these parts. 😛
First off just a wee reminder of Kendo’s fund raiser. Now more than ever I believe we need independent news outlets like this one, iScot. Let’s see if we can get this one going and show the miserable ignorant incompetent Scottish newspapers how things SHOULD be done.
link to indiegogo.com
Secondly, my partner has amongst her friends on Facebook a guy who, like us is utterly devastated by the referendum result, so much so that he is looking to form a new single issue party. I know these sort of things are not everyone’s cup of tea but for those who may be interested he has started a crowd funder which I’ve linked below.
link to indiegogo.com
At every election, the SNP must state that a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence, and if they get a majority, they will declare independence. No more playing by Westminsters rules.
they have lied cheated broke the law broke the Edinburgh agreement all in front of us. With what they have to lose do you think that they left the vote to chance? don’t no how they did it we will find out in thirty years time when the file marked top secret is published.
Midgehunter;
To be fair, it’s my understanding that a majority government was not expected by the SNP, they also felt it was too soon to put a referendum to the people, but it’s difficult to refuse if you’re given that kind of mandate, and you have Labour baying at your heels.
It is to their credit they fulfilled their manifesto pledge when all about we’re losing theirs. Perhaps it is true that the result simply proves Scotland wasn’t ready. But the next time will be less favourable, much nastier and probably conducted by less able politicians.
C’est la vie. C’est la guerre.
Stuart;
I really want to see Wings survive this, I want it to develop and become a powerful force in Scottish public life. I’d gladly cancel my Lit and Phil subscription and give it to you to keep up the work, it’s £13 a month to a subscription library set up to educate those who because they were not members of the Anglican Church and part of the establishment had no access to information. I think this is your role today.
I agree with Tartan Army. It is time to stop singing Flower of Scotland. It’s time has passed.
Tough day and even tougher days ahead. You’d do well to remember the story of Bruce and the spider though…
How about the National Independence Party (NIP)
comprising all the Yes parties and groups for the UK general election?
Don’t be too downhearted. We did better than most predicted. I hope you keep this site going.
UKIP will win the by-election next month, the ‘vow’ will be talked out if Westminster and put ‘on hold’ until after the election and then quietly dropped. an in or out EU referendum may follow. Austerity and continue.
This sounds bad but unlike 1979 we still have the Scottish Parliament. In a few years, once the hollow promises made in the last few days are seen for what they really are we will back once again. At that time there will be fewer around old enough to remember WW2 and the coronation and lots of people who remember that in 2014 the Labour party stood shoulder to shoulder with the Tories, UKIP and the Orange order
This will go down as a pyrrhic victory for the Union. Today is the first day of the next referendum campaign.
JLT – I do hope that happens – and Rev’s unique expertise and courage is available to help us ensure it happens on the best possible basis, thought and responsible compassion for those who need government to be proactive and caring for those who need support and nurture: the young, vulnerable and struggling: those otherwise despised and ignored by the current system of fiscal, immoral ‘me-centered’ greed. Labour is dead and its rotten corpse ingested by the Tory Unionist beast.
Lord Smith of Kelvin?! Another corporate bastard?!
He needs to own up and say which way he voted yesterday. I think it would create some trust if there was an openly Yes figure overseeing this circus
For all those looking for a true Scottish bank – the only one left in fact – can I recommend you all move your money into the Airdrie Savings Bank?
Stu – I know this is not the time or the place but as others have said I would hope you would carry on, even under a different banner, to continue to debunk the lies and expose the truth. Knowledge is power as your stunning Wee Blue Book has shown. That alone shifted a huge number of people over to Yes.
Whatever it’s name it cannot have the word National in it.
Just wanted to say how proud I am of all of you. Such great people. We all have no regrets. Unlike the no voters who will live with guilt all their lives. They let Scotland down, not us. Never forget the lies the media told, or the politicians told. We will build our better future brick by brick out of this cesspit.
Stu – please keep Wings going. We need you and Newsnet Scotland to be our news sources. We just Cant rely on anyone else.
I certainly think there is a case for Wings continuing until this Bill makes an appearance in January and maybe beyond if the fur flies over it..
To hell with it, I’m going to say something I hinted at before, but didn’t fully articulate during the campaign as it would have been unhelpful.
Maybe it’s still unhelpful, but that doesn’t matter any more!
Some of you posting above have raised the subject of the SNP’s position. I tend to agree that if our movement for independence is to have any hope of future progress it must break its overarching association with one political party and its policies.
We are grateful to the SNP government for enabling this referendum; but we have lost, and the SNP has failed to deliver on its primary policy objective.
The dominance of the SNP in the Yes campaign always made me uneasy, because it forced raw politics to the forefront of a constitutional discussion. Everything became partisan. The White Paper was presented and promoted as though it was an election manifesto (a point ably exploited by Ruth Davidson during the last televised debate).
SNP politicians, from the First Minister downwards, had to remain ‘on message’, causing interviews to become stilted affairs with open goals being missed time and again for fear of party policy being compromised. At the same time, individuals fell into the trap of debating these points of policy rather than the principles of independence and the choices it would enable.
All of this helped the No side to cement the perception that the Yes campaign equalled Alex Salmond and the SNP. Then we had the disastrous decision by the FM to debate with Alistair Darling, which crystallised the campaign as an SNP versus Labour contest.
Under these circumstances, the Yes foot-soldiers must have had an uphill struggle trying to shift Labour voters across, given these people’s traditional antipathy towards the SNP.
I’m not saying this is why Yes lost; just that it’s clearly not the way to win. the independence (or constitutional reform) movement in Scotland must become non-partisan in nature.
Naughty Independent Party? I like the NIP bit.
If Cameron moves towards a federal solution, presumably to placate England, then we need to quickly build alliances with all the other parts of the UK who are equally pissed off with Westminster. North of England, Wales, Cornwall, wherever. Otherwise London will have a great time playing divide-and-rule with us all. A united front would have more clout than Scotland alone and could be a useful stepping stone to full indy.
Rev,
I can’t thank you enough for the fantastic job you’ve done over the last few years.
I think there is still a crying need for a website like yours that can take apart the lies, omissions and bullshit that come out of the British state machine.
I will never trust the mainstream media again – on any issue.
The BBC in particular have shamed themselves with the Iraq war and the referendum.
I have also cancelled my licence.
The world and not just Scotland needs people like you to cut through the crap and put things into proper perspective.
Anyway, thanks again and I wish you all the best with whatever you do next.
Croompenstein,
“@Tim Ward – I’ve got an idea why don’t you take Trident down to wherever it is you live and where your kids play eh? no so much noise Tim ya numbnut”
Well, actually, Barrow I think *was* one of the proposed sites for the relocation of Trident in the event of a yes vote. That’s about, uh, 40-50 miles from me?
I don’t know what actual point you’re trying to make, but I’m sure it’s very impressive. Well done!
Sorry amid my total devastation. I forgot to say thank you Rev Stu for all your efforts and everything you’ve done.
I have been too polite as well and I am now going to turn my back on all those die hard Labour supporters.
I feel sorry for folk that are going to feel the full force of WM revenge thro no fault of their own but we were always an amateur outfit.
Morag mentioned something earlier about some great material arriving too late, the full force of the British establishment was against us and they have had 100s of years of experience.
Hello, folks. Old(ish) friend of The Rev’s here.
I know you’re unhappy with the result, but you should be damned proud at the turnout.
Damned proud.
I remember seeing somewhere in the comments suggesting possible T Shirts with the usual “Don’t blame me….”. Has anyone considered a metal badge and the means to produce it with “I’m one of the 45%”?
Apologies if already suggested.
Stu – like so many have a wee break but please come back – your country needs you!
One last caveat from me. Please remember that we are trying to overthrow war criminals here, people who are responsible for death and injury to many thousands of people.
They have no morals and if you oppose them you should be prepared to fight as if your very life and those of your families depended on it.
I’ve just looked at the variations in percentage turnout. The depressed voter turnout percentages from Glasgow, Dundee, and to a lesser degree, Aberdeen make me wonder whether votes have been culled in bulk from areas where a YES was more likely. Turn-out in other areas has much less variation. Contrast this with the astoundingly high registrations rates from early September and, something does not add up. Another essential part of this underhand strategy would be to deny TV time from the mass demonstrations, which of course we saw, so that a depressed turnout was less surprising. Of course, we know the massive enthusiasm of the West of Scotland YES voters from Youtube which confirms the very high motivation in those areas. The third tactic would be to spot track people who never voted from historical canvassing returns and submit those as NO postal votes – 10 of these examples may have surfaced in Glasgow. We should ask whether the 10 people who found they had “already voted” were people voting for the first time in many years. Overall I doubt enough damage could be done to turn an impending YES win into a YES loss … but I feel uneasy. Note the margin of loss was more than anyone expected 10% instead of 4-6% range.
Knee jerk reactions never won anything it’s time for reflection and rational thought. Scotland needs an MSM it can put trust in not the charlatans we have.
(sorry about the single paragraphs – I pasted from another blog)
Rev, have a nice break, and begin again. When you are back I for one look forward to subscribing to your work.
Sorry, but this needs said. I have watched many people, including the SNP talking this morning of moving the entire UK and Scotland forward with a common purpose to reflect the vote last night. Sorry, did I miss something? I didn’t join the SNP for such complicit behaviour, nor for DEVO nano or whatever.
I’m actually getting pretty annoyed at the way the SNP appear to be just giving up.
I have ZERO interest in the piddling ‘newpowers’ which are supposedly being offered. They are a joke. I want independence. Until this morning, I thought that’s what the SNP wanted too.
Maybe the SNP could dissolve itself into the Yes Movement to form a ‘peoples party of Scotland’ or some other name.
Adopt a strategy of fighting for a solid Holyrood majority committed to as much of a social democratic programme as can be maintained. Start in the areas that Yes won hitting Labour MSPs. Stand by to support workers and tenants etc struggles against austerity. Selectively stand against Labour, Westminster MPs where we can beat them and grind their vile party down a few at a time.
Run popular campaigns like non payment of TV licence. Encourage and link up with radical groups in rest of UK.
Endorse ‘Wings’ as our mouthpiece with Stuart Campbell as editor.
I’m 63 and a political activist of 40 years. I’ve never been so angry in my bloody life. Let’s fight the bastards until hell freezes over !
So, my Scottish, ‘Yes’-voter (or just reform-minded) friends, what say you to a SNP/Green Alliance in 2015? Involving at least some uncontested seats? To send a reform-minded intake to Westminster? I think it’s urgent, morning-after stuff. Because this energy, and organisation, is in danger of curdling into severely depressed people.
Regarding Flower of Scotland, I do not agree. It is the national anthem of Scotland. Just because some Scots have no balls, does not mean we change the anthem. I want it played every time, to shame those people, and make them feel uncomfortable.
Still working for independence.
I agree with the calls for a real pro-Scottish newspaper, perhaps with contributions between all the online blogs.
This site has made a huge contribution, greatly boosting the YES vote.
But Politics-only blogs just don’t have enough reach.
The ‘shut-up-and-eat-your-cereal’ style housewife is patronising, but unfortunately accurate in many cases.
Print media is still relevant even with declining circulation. Stories are given disproportional respect, and can set the agenda.
Front-page propaganda in shops and supermarkets would cost millions in equivalent billboard advertising.
We need a real pro-Scottish newspaper to help us even get Devo-Max at this point.
Similar to the Metro maybe.
Perhaps with a new style of journalism – where online bloggers contribute for free, with links to their sites.
Not just politics, but news, sport, entertainment etc.
Something that can be left in a coffee shop.
Dear Stuart,
Your effort has been breathtaking and you deserve a rest.
Thank you.
Some phoenix will surely rise from the ashes of today and I hope you will be part of it when that happens.
Keep well.
I am an Englishman, living in the English midlands.
I would like to say how much I admire what the brave Yes campaigners tried to do and how dissapointed I am that they did not succeed this time.
I too want to see a free and fair society where all are treated as the brothers and sisters we truly are: with care, compassion, dignity and kindness; the noblest of virtues. The selfish and inhuman forces which seek to suppress such things for the benefit of the privileged few will not endure for long.
This particular battle has been lost, but that is the way with battles. Some are lost and some are won. The important thing is to win the war!
We all need to work towards building a mood and momentum for change, not just in Scotland but right across the British Isles. A change that will benefit us all as equally as possible, as quickly as possible.
To each according to their needs. From each according to their abilities. A truly Cooperative Commonwealth is possible if we each recognise and acknowledge our capacity for change and understanding.
WoS and other sources of independent information are vital. We cannot trust the vested interests who control the MSM. Please keep up the good work.
This was only round one.
The next referendum campaign starts in 2018 once the Uk
votes to leave Europe.
Once a YES always a yes next time we only need to get another 5%
Onwards and upwards