stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland

The competition

Posted on January 17, 2017 by

You very rarely get useful stats about online newspaper readership, so we were quite intrigued by this snippet on tonight’s BBC2 Scotland documentary “Paper Thistle”, about the 200th anniversary of The Scotsman.

We don’t know what the numbers are or how brief the period was, but Wings’ average traffic is higher now than it was in 2014, while we suspect The Scotsman is moving in the opposite direction. For a single-issue website to be anywhere even in the same ballpark as a two-centuries-old broadsheet news brand with scores of full-time writers and production staff and a daily newsstand presence is a remarkable thing indeed.

We might start doing classifieds and sport just to see what happens.

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    1. 25 01 17 03:26

      The competition - The Real World Sucks

    157 to “The competition”

    1. gordoz says:

      Also daw 2 reports about poster campaign about reporting Scotland having viewing figures of 700,000 trimmed back to 500,000 in later reports, what’s that all about … Accuracy??

    2. Paula Rose says:

      We’re still waiting on the recipes and knitting patterns that were promised last time you tried to increase readership.

    3. jimnarlene says:

      It’s that bastion of unionism thing, that’s going to see the paper thistle wither and die; pity it can be a good read.

    4. Capella says:

      Remarkable. The Scotsman has rendered itself irrelevant. Whereas Wings is very very relevant in Scotland today. I suspect readership will increase in months ahead.

    5. Jimbo says:

      I did a YouGov Oracle survey today. They had the Scotsman listed as a regional newspaper among such others as the Falkirk Herald, Yorkshire Post etc.

    6. Dunks says:

      A shameful arsewipe of a newspaper.

      Which paper is next for an hour long advertisement to try and boost it’s sales, The Times?

    7. Artyhetty says:

      Bbc’s idea of balance, no doubt. WOS doing a fine job, for all of us, thank you. I see many unionist rags sitting there on the shop shelves late evening, sometimes piles of them, not sold, no one wants them.

      O/T, as many will know, Obama has commuted Chelsea Manning’s sentence! I really thought it might not happen, so pleased it has. A good ending to an awful Brexshit, Ukokian, dystopian day.

    8. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The Rev wrote:

      We might start doing classifieds and sport just to see what happens.

      OK Rev, bags first dibs on the Sports Editor’s job.

    9. harry mcaye says:

      Judging by the size of the piles in local paper shops, as many folk are reading the Daily Sport as are reading The Scotsman.

    10. fatweegee says:

      Bastion of humanism…..

    11. Tartan Tory says:

      I had to laugh when they said that the 20k readership was dwarfed by their 100k+ on-line readership. The guy doing the talking had no idea of spiders, bots and wings-people going there for a chuckle!! 🙂

    12. Coinneach says:

      Yes, but remember that half the so-called Scotsman’s readership are geriatric duffers who don’t know what a website is.

    13. Arbroath1320 says:

      Aye well if you do spread your wings (sorry about that 😉 ) into sports can at least YOU do more coverage of Lower league football than just Scottish Premiership. I’m sick to the back teeth of papers covering Premiership like it is the do all and end all of Scottish football. Not everyone in Scotland follows Rangers, Celtic or even Aberdeen (sorry Rev.:) )

    14. Lenny Hartley says:

      Jumbo the Hootsman , Herald and a few others have declared themselves Regional titles as that means circulation calculated quarterly rather than weekly or monthly, short term benefit of keeping advertising revenue higher.

    15. Thepnr says:

      This 200 year old newspaper is no longer relevant. No one cares what they print because it is mostly lies and few choose to buy it.

      I will not weep when they finally fold as they are responsible for the shite they print.

      Reading Wings costs me nothing unless I choose to contribute and here at least I can expect some facts not made up shite about the NHS or Education that the Scotsman would have you believe.

      The Scotsman time is limited as is the Heralds. So Tough! to quote a phrase.

    16. Ian Mackay says:

      Readership numbers dropping at The Scotsman?

      Unionism does that to the printed press.

      Ironically if The Scotsman newspaper is to survive long term it needs Scottish independence.

      Luckily for it, independence is coming sooner than it seems to wish.

    17. Col says:

      Fiona Hyslop was terrible on Scotland Tonight, could the SNP not have put someone better on this day of all days?

    18. Broch Landers says:

      The Scotsman and The Herald are like Wylie Coyote.

      But is Wings the anvil or the Roadrunner?

    19. MadMentalDavy says:

      Oohhh – recipes would be cool. I need a decent fudge recipe if you need a few suggestions.

    20. Morag says:

      Cultural articles – concert reviews, book reviews, general Scottish history and the arts…

      The sky’s the limit!

      (Wait a minute, am I describing iScot here?)

    21. Helpmaboab says:

      If you include an occasional “Souvenir Royal Pullout That You’ll Treasure Forever” then I’ll most certainly buy a subscription.

    22. mario antoinette says:

      I hope Boards of Canada didnt give them permission for that background piece.

    23. Calum McKay says:

      Congratulations Wings!

      bbc in Scotland (Donalda) take note, be even handed and stop misrepresenting the nationalism in Scotland or you will face the same future as the Scotsman, extinction!

    24. yesindyref2 says:

      Don’t forget the regular columns on the daily doings of Michelle Mone and JK Rowling. Now that would double readership.

    25. defo says:

      Baggsy horoscopes Stu.

      Print this every edition, and we’re good. £50/pop seems fair 🙂

      ‘It’s baws. Accept the futility of existence, smile anyhoo, & get yersel some science edumacation quick ffs’

    26. Ian McCubbin says:

      Would welcome scottish culture, music reviews, Scottish arts (know a few artists, one related to me)
      Maybe at present just keeping focus on failings of MSM and pointing out good work and evidence of indy cause is really enough.

    27. alexicon says:

      Interesting that the editor got up at 5 am for several days to write an editorial on the Scotsman backing a no stance in the Indy ref.
      Looks like it was his own personal decision and not a collective decision.
      Go for it Rev and get some advertising in, it will bring in much needed revenue to pay for even more writers.
      No wrap-arounds though please, they do my head in.

    28. No sport please – Aberdeen bias would be too much

    29. ronnie anderson says:

      Think of the number’s of Wee Blue Books that can be produced with advertising revenue Rev.

    30. Clootie says:

      Was this anything more than one unionist mouthpiece trying to prop up another?

      Another North British rag is in trouble and we are to shed a tear.

      I look forward to the closure of the Scotsman, Herald, P&J, Daily Record etc. I will always regret the loss of jobs when a company closes. However I see this in the same light as Trident….I choose not to support jobs that risk to the future of Scotland and it’s citizens.

      After 20 years of avoiding newspapers I now subscribe to and read one every day…The National.
      It gives space to those who support Independence instead of pushing Unionst propaganda down my throat.

    31. dakk says:

      Go for it

      Heard Brian Souter is in giving mode to Indy causes.

      Why not approach him and/or some other flush Yessers like Andy Murray or the Weirs for a small(to them)cash injection to help expand Wings offerings ?

      The likes of Donnie Trump didnae get where he is today waeoot haein a brass neck.

    32. galamcennalath says:

      Unionism is a terminal disease.

    33. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Good riddance to bad rubbish like the hootsman and other anti scottish pro british rags-you know who you are! Like your beloved “union” your time is up! Very few will mourn your passing!

    34. Fred says:

      Howsabout a Wings Society column? Both families are delighted to annou………

    35. Wullie B says:

      OT I know but saw the BBC had the BBC missreporting Scotland billlboards on their website, almost fainted

    36. Kevin Taylor says:

      Think The Scotsman and The Herald are concerned about this trend? Mmm – they’re concerned alright. And so they should be, those snakes-in-the-grass. They’re pounding, pounding, pounding lies and crap, with bags of fluff for ammo – Journalistic Hara-Kari – and making no impression on the front.

      You know, both those selfish, irresponsible rags are putting jobs at risk by their recklessness. Those employees have families, and homes, but those hell-bent and vengeful editors could give a shit. Their pathetic stance for a bent union is gambling with the livelihoods of these people. I’m genuinely sorry for the workers, but I hope the Scotsman and Herald both sink to Hell in my lifetime.

      Well-done, Stu – wire-into them!

    37. Ed t head says:

      The trend in the press is the more you support SNPbad WM good the quicker your sales drop, it shows the reporters can’t see the news and are just reprinting the story from on high, all they have to do is insert a S in front of NHS meltdown, I always check Reuters and Wings to see what is happening the press is usually 24 hours behind the story and being one sided will kill them off quicker.

    38. should get a wee bit extra traffic after that endorsement,

      so all comments should have that in mind,

      probably a lot of journalists,politicians,and professional Edinburgers watching.

      Seems Andy Neil was getting the blame for “breaking the neck of The Scotsman”,

      I thought The Scotsman was destroyed by the editor Ian Stewart when he decided to throw his paper behind the Conservative and Unionists in the Scottish Referendum,

      Ian Stewart had the chance to save the decline of the paper but instead used it to further his own politics of Tory London rule for Scotland.

    39. AllyPally says:

      You should make them an offer for The Scotsman. I’m sure you can crowdfund it. Turn it into a paper that gives references, backs up all its stories, openly checks facts. That’ll sell.

      You don’t have to do it all. Delegate. It’ll work.

    40. Graham King says:

      MadMentalDavy,there’s plenty of fudge in the MSM! You and I though may well agree that, made to their now-traditional recipe, it is unappetising.

    41. Dr Jim says:


      Interesting things to do with your porridge
      Stovies for beginners
      Mashed Totties art or science
      Traditional Scottish Indian curry V Chinese or Kebab
      Tips on colouring in Union flags on supermarket food as you browse
      Why would anyone from Scotland buy anything from Morrisons supermarket when it’s clearly anti Scottish

      All these topics and more could be discussed on Wings morning show 10am till 12noon with Lorraine Kelly but under a different name so’s nobody’ll know it’s her

      I think you could get her cheap Stu! she’s a good sport and would pitch in for the cause

    42. Bill Hume says:

      I liked the line “I THINK it was Wings Over Scotland”
      He damned well KNEW it was Wings over Scotland.

    43. Dead Tree Scrolls is of course a play on Dead Sea Scrolls. Ancient texts written on fragile papyrus that would crumble to dust in the harsh light of day.
      I would find it difficult to mourn their passing.

    44. maybe the Rev could do a once a week Gaelic post?

      but jeezo nae fitba.

    45. I am always impressed by the stats on the readership traffic for wings but I am also very surprised when I mention the site to someone and they don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. That being said it’s then always a good opportunity to hand a wee black book to open their eyes.

    46. Swami Backverandah says:

      Eric Joyce 17 Jan 2017:

      “So the biggest question we 2014 NO voters of the centre/left need to ask ourselves now is: What’s in my heart?”

      I’d put this second to a bigger question for No voters.

      “Does a monstrous black-hole of uninformed mass still constitute what passes for my brain?”

      Overt to you, xenoBrits.

    47. Big Al says:

      Can you get Mystic McTernan to do the Football Pools prediction? Just so I know who not to bet on.

    48. yesindyref2 says:

      So Daisley has quit STV citing lack of support, story in Herald.

      I didn’t follow the whole thing but did have a look and it seemed to me that on twitter he behaved like an individual, and on the STV website like he was on twitter.

      Perhaps now he’s an individual he can complete the circle and learn how to be a proper journalist – and join a rare endangered species of proper journalists (says he cuttingly).

    49. Davie P says:

      Ally Pally @ 11.45pm

      Phenomenal idea… Wings over Scotland takes control of The Scotsman… Bliss!!!

      The message becomes genuinely MSM print-media mainstream, we double the number of daily newspapers supporting Indy… What’s not to like?

    50. Cadogan Enright says:

      Chortle; BBC Reporting Scotland reporting about BBC misreporting Scotland

      I’d say Reporting Scotland is challenging The Scotsman in the race to extinction

      And more fun in Stirling and Falkirk tomorrow

    51. mike cassidy says:

      Oh, feck! Adverts and Sudoku on Wings.

    52. mike cassidy says:

      UKIP Scotland Party Political Broadcast … not

    53. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ scot Findlayson 12.08

      A tha thu gàire a dèanamh? ‘Se Rev Philistich e . . .

    54. sarah says:

      @Cadogan Enright – you see, it’s because the Rev struggles with the sonorant coronal phonemes. I understand his position as I struggle with them too…

    55. Del says:

      A recipe section opens up all sorts of possibilities. Just imagine the income from commercial liaisons. For example with KFC. Chicken Wings. You know it makes sense.

    56. K1 says:

      I’m all for recipe’s but nae fitba!

      Scotsman’s a dirty oily rag full of bile btl. Wouldn’t sully ma digital footprint by clicking on anything they have to write.

    57. Douglas says:

      If Kremlin gold was good enough for ‘arry Perkins, its good enough for secessionists determined to destroy the United Kingdom once and for all.

    58. Crabbit Geezer says:

      Don’t you F’n dare! No adverts. No classifieds and no sport thank you! This is Wings and we fly free. Thanks for being here.

    59. Dr Jim says:

      Just been reading all the headlines on Talks tough woman
      This is a woman who spent six years at the home office and coudnae threaten the tea lady wae a bad look if she didnae get the right milk wae her Earl Grey and was so anonymous she was the longest serving person in that job who achieved absolutely nothing…ever
      Now she’s swingin a pretendy chib at the EU, well the English might fall for it but tae me she’s as transparent as glass and just as easily broken

      Theresa May is not in the least bit tough, brittle more like and huffy with it
      and I’d put money on it that speech was written by Liam Fox and cronies

      I’d also put money on her not lasting once the going gets rough, she’ll crack

    60. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh dear God. From David Maddog of the Express:

      A HUMILIATED Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been told to “take a second independence referendum off the table” after Theresa May called her bluff on Brexit.

      Oh, she feels so humiliated 🙂

    61. Meg merrilees says:

      Can you imagine waking up every morning as Teresa May? Must be awful… worse still believing all that bulls**t …

      Just listened (couldn’t bear to watch) to the entire speech on Youtube…ye gads!
      We are leaving the single market BUT we want to have the fullest possible access to the single market.

      We are leaving the customs union BUT we want to keep free trade and don’t want to have to pay tariffs for that freedom of movement.

      We want to stay friends with Europe and want the EU to succeed BUT if you don’t give us what we want then that will be really bad for all the automotive industries and their supply lines, financial markets, pharmaceuticals businesses and lots of other businesses who have £half a trillion pounds of investment in the UK.
      Wouldn’t it be really ba-ad for the UK if all those businesses decide to remove their investments FROM the UK???

      Did you notice, we are all just ‘devolved assemblies’.
      I noticed a trick sentence .. ‘That’s why we are consulting with the devolved assemblies ‘ Ergo, not us because we are a devolved parliament – cunning move!
      Why does England want to be a truly global country? What does that really mean?

      Thought the open-necked shirt looked really untidy and too casual.

      Wonder what PMQ’s will make of the speech later today.

      Can’t imagine for one minute that Nicola is humiliated. Especially as the Scottish parliament voted by 86 to 36 this afternoon to support the Scottish Government’s Paper on Scotland’s place in Europe and for Mike Russell’s motion that Scotland should remain in the Single market.
      SNP,+Greens+SLabour voted for= 86;
      ‘Ruth and the Untruth party’ and ‘Wee Willie Winkie’s’ lot agin – 31+5= 36.

    62. yesindyref2 says:

      A comment by David Torrance on his twitter thing is worth thinking about, as it likely represents 20% or so of the voters of Scotland:

      Bullshit Brexit versus bullshit Independence – Scots basically (at some point) have to choose between the lesser of two bullshit “visions”.

      That’s our challenge, our battleground, and our ultimate victory.

    63. It mentioned its snail mail letters column, but not its online letters, which is now overrun by right wing loyalist Old Firm posters that its politics has now attracted. The hard copy Unionist letters are mainly from middle class Tories.

      It did not mention its far right Unionist columnists, such as MacDonnell, Peterkin and others.

      Their demise, they claimed, was down to technology, and not their obnoxious politics and downright insulting lies.

    64. Breeks says:

      Whoops. Been flagged up already in another thread… But worth sharing far and wide.

    65. bjsalba says:

      Yes, it certainly is – makes you think, doesn’t it?

    66. Macart says:

      Left off reading and buying the Scotsman six or seven years ago.

      Haven’t looked back.

      Today I keep better company and read a better class of commentary. Sleep good too.

    67. heedtracker says:

      “Rightly or wrongly seen as a bastion of unionism” is the understatement of this morn. Likes of Euan MacColm will tantruming away at this and thats nice.

      Vitamin WoS, taken everyday, scientifically proven to do all kinds of great things, as you pass newsstands like this morns. Ffs, Britnat tory newsrooms really are run by lunatics, tory lunatics.

    68. Macart says:


      ‘A humiliated FM?’

      Hahahahahahaha! 😀

      A wee bit more patience. A wee bit more procedure and legality. They’re attempt at baiting the FM is pish right enough.

      Dominoes are just about all in place and if we’re fortunate, they’ll even tip the first one over themselves. 🙂

    69. Macart says:

      ‘Their’ dammit! 🙂

    70. Donnie says:

      You should start doing an obituary page. First entry could be ‘The Hootsman’itself?

    71. Muscleguy says:


      Forget the fancy pepper, add your own flavourings but the method is champion. For a start not using condensed milk means I can make it lactose free.

    72. Smallaxe says:

      Nana: Good Morning,

      Links for breakfast, Thank you, Kettle’s on

      Peace Always

    73. Nana says:

      Extreme Brexit: This was May’s last moment of control

      Brexit: Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth

    74. mr thms says:

      Sorry for going off topic..

      Did you know that Scotland’s international export figures exclude the export of oil and gas to the rest of the UK?

      I also came across an article on the North Seas biggest oil fields.

      If you think this is good news for Norway..

      “Johan Sverdrup – 1.56bn barrels

      Located approximately 155km west of Stavanger, the Johan Sverdrup field was discovered in 2010. It is expected to start production in late-2019 and has an estimated life of 50 years which should extend the life of Norway’s oil industry by a number of decades.”

      .. then this is fantastic news for Scotland!

      “Clair – 8bn barrels

      Clair oil field, the biggest oil field in the North Sea and Europe, is also the biggest hydrocarbon resource being developed on the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS).”

      It’s more than FOUR times bigger!

    75. shiregirl says:

      I’m selling a washing machine – vgc. Can I post here?


    76. sydthesnake says:

      Keep Wings as it is, we don’t need cash injections from Souter, Murray and the like, “if it’s not broken don’t try to fix it” I may not post much but not a single day goes by without me dipping in for sanity’s sake, Revs doing a fantastic job.


    77. Macart says:

      Ta Nana.

      Just sitting down with a cup. 🙂

      Read the New European piece this morn. Its pretty much on the nail.

    78. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe Good morning. Articles piling up, haven’t read half of them yet. Doubt I will have time today.


      I see a couple of articles have been posted already, hard to keep track.

      One more for now

    79. Macart says:


      Some pieces are always worth reposting and that is one of them.

    80. Campbell macgregor says:

      Not long now for this paper to just be a memory

    81. schrodingers cat says:

      excellent idea, we could with raising some cash, you could even “lend” your fame to eg iscot, having the wings logo on their front cover might help it

    82. One_Scot says:

      When it comes to the EU I am no expert, but it seems to me that what Theresa May is saying to Europe is,

      ‘We want to drop all the bits we don’t like, and we want to keep all the bits we do like, and if you don’t let us we will steal your all your business’

      Is that really what it boils down to. May is telling Europe to jump and she expects them to say how high. OMG you can almost hear Rule Britannia playing in the background.

      Honestly, if Scotland does not escape this destructive and damaging union ASAP I believe Scotland will never see the light of day again.

    83. Martin says:

      I can do sport “Your local sports team confirmed as superior to non local rival.”

    84. Bugger (le Panda) says:

      I nominate Paula Rose for the Shoes correspondent role and I bags the wine one, if I have a decent expense account.

    85. wull2 says:

      Good idea Rev, have a sports section that has the lie of the day as a banner, and then any sports comments / news it might get a few more people to this site.

    86. Nana says:

      @Macart You are right. My favourite headline was Die Welt’s Little Britain, see below

      How Europe’s newspapers reacted to Theresa May’s Brexit speech

      Use translate function

      If we sign up to the TTIP trade deal with Trump

    87. Liz Rannoch says:

      Can I do the Bonnie Dug o’ the Month? Hhmmm tablet – need a good tablet recipe.

      Bit shocked and delighted when I checked Advan route (Stirling/Falkirk) and found it’s coming to Dunfermline today Yyessss!

      HELP Yesterday there was a piece on Business for Scotland called ’15 Glaringly obvious….’ which I scanned through and wanted to return to today. It’s still on their home page but it’s gone when you click on it. ? Can anybody help with an archive?

    88. Brian Powell says:

      There’s already and Sports section on Twitter, and an in depth analysis of the ‘Rangers’ story!

    89. Sharny Dubs says:

      The Scotsman and BBC in trouble!!!

      I do hope it’s nothing trivial.


    90. Macart says:


      Ayup! The continental title’s response to the speech pretty predictable right enough. 😀

    91. Davo says:

      Thumbs up for classified ads. I have been looking for an indy classified site for a while. It should also generate income for Wings.

    92. Ruby says:

      K1 says:
      18 January, 2017 at 1:51 am
      I’m all for recipe’s but nae fitba!

      Scotsman’s a dirty oily rag full of bile btl. Wouldn’t sully ma digital footprint by clicking on anything they have to write.

      Ruby replies

      Interesting! BTL comments can influence online readership of a newspaper? yes/no.

      The Herald BTL comments seem to be getting pretty close to the BTL comments on The Scotsman.

    93. Ruby says:

      I’m 100% in favour of a separate football section!

      I’m presuming that sports = football!

    94. Ruby says:

      I’m 100% in favour of a separate football section!

      I’m presuming sports = football!

    95. heraldnomore says:

      The Little Englanders are out in force on talkRadio; three minutes till the fragrant Ms Hartley-Brewer takes over…

      Promising to look at IndyRef2 in her trailer. Popcorn.

    96. Capella says:

      O/T but funny – BBC R4 playing a clip of comedian Jim Smith’s alternative Star Wars. 3 mins

    97. DerekM says:

      Hi everybody i hope you all had a good new year unfortunately i can not say the same my eldest brother past away,sad days damn you 2016 🙁

      Okay here it comes fuck you dead tree Scotsman lies,your paper is a tory bum licking propaganda sheet 200 years of lies and deceit a total disgrace and deserve everything that is coming to you indyref2.

      I see yon head banger May is still hiding under the cabinet desk shouting no no no lalala i cant hear you brexit is brexit so suck it up jocks we own you,has anybody told her about big Guy making a monumental political call to stay where he is,i bet when she heard that her head spun around like the wee crazy lass from exorcist.

      I see the yoons are screaching about indyref2 and that Nicola has bottled it,they really want us to have it before A50 and will possibly try to use it to kick A50 into the long grass,we must not flinch a muscle until A50 is signed but then Nicola knows that.

      Why well if we have indyref2 before A50 then it will be a UK run referendum,if we wait until A50 is signed then it will be a EU referendum and those lousy cheating westminster rats will not be able to pull their fraud tricks.

    98. Cactus says:

      Aye aye, that was a good plug Wings received, in the short video clip on BBC2 Scotland last night on television.. therefore, a welcome to ye new, one and all.

      @Nana ~
      Cheers for yer daily links, a wealth of valuable information!
      Also for the info about the Inform Scotland FB page 🙂

      Scotland’s Robert “Burns Night” is one week from today..
      Be sure to get yerself ‘to a supper’ next Wednesday.

    99. Robert Graham says:

      These Scottish based Papers have been following the same Unionist line since their inception ,if i am not wrong the slave trade was championed and indeed the Confederacy was backed to the hilt by them ,they seem to have the knack of always being on the wrong side of history every time they cant change and have never learned they dont seek to report news ,they try to influence events doing well aren’t they ? . A bit like the BBC in Scotland .

    100. Dr Jim says:

      All this free trade Theresa May’s going to do with all the global world of free trading happy people who just lurv the UK sounds great in Theresa and Boris’s head
      But it’s not just about politics it’s about people too and we know what happens if the French people don’t like stuff, they do things like stop the trains, block the channel tunnel, slow down whatever they want and the French politicians will get so energised about it they’ll decide to do something positive after lunch in a weeks time if it’s not raining and the meeting falls on a Thursday which only leaves two days to complete talks so best wait till the following week as long as it’s not a public holiday

      See how the French work Mrs May?

      Is it just me who finds Prof John Curtice incomprehensible when he speaks
      He has no punctuation between his words, it’s all just one big meaningless garbled blurb word
      If they’re going to get someone on to tell us Independence is Baad you’d think they’d at least get somebody who can speak English so we know how Baad it is

      The new phrase for this week seems to be Sturgeon’s got a problem or a dilemma she doesn’t want to face
      I think they think that’s Yoon code for she’s feart
      Whereas I don’t think she’s feart she’s just making sure she doesnae lose, and that’s a different thing

      Scotland’ll have to join the Euro, Back of the queue, Shengen, Spain veto, Currency, No appetite, Uncertainty, Brexit together, Wee Krankie

      Just some of the phrases on my kill list for people who speak those words to me today
      Who says the campaign hasnae started yet they never stopped from the day after they won lost won Bitterly mental shower

    101. sassenach says:

      I see that the English yoons are going batshit about Nicola on the BBC HYS section following Nicola’s response to May.

      Must remind myself never to even glance at Donalda’s propaganda site!

    102. The Scotsman shows a stunning lack of self-awareness in that clip. Worrying if you work there.

    103. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Plenty of Brexit news on the German tele yesterday.


      UK exports approx 35bn goods/services to Germany.
      Germany exports goods/services approx 85bn to the UK.

      Germany has approx 120bn in direct investment in the UK, factories, logistics etc. etc.

      UK is the third largest export market after the USA and France.

      May/UK is seen as the one who wants to leave the EU/EEA because they think they know better than the 27 other members. They want to leave but imagine they’ll tell the EU want they have to give in order to have the privilege of trading with the UK..!

      German industry recognises that they’ll probably take a hit in the short term but that’s a price worth paying to stabilise the integrity and future of the EU.

      May hasn’t made many friends yesterday.

    104. Andrew McLean says:

      from a German newspaper comment this morning.

      It’s about time that Scotland shows self-awareness and does not see itself as an enclave of England and dependent on it. It is desirable that Scotland be freed and remains a member of the EU.

      “to see our self’s as others see us”

      In fact comment in Europe, apart form the equivalents of UKIP have been very supportive of Scotland.

      T May wishing to plat hard ball with Germany and France has only strengthened the view that the Englanders were never Europeans.
      Interesting that the 8% argument goes a long way to stop silly comments and is a great list of facts, I will go so far as to say the vast majority don’t know of Scottish assets.

      What UKIP and T May called the Battle against the EU is over. I expect that the Battle for Scotland as a full member Nation of the E.U is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Scottish civilization. upon it depends our own Scottish way of life, the common weal , and the long continuity of our institutions and our Nation.

      The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us now. The Westminster establishment and their propagandists the media and BBC know that they they will have to assimilate us in to this little England or forever live as a rump. If we can stand up to them, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands.

      But if we fail, then the whole world, including the E.U , including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age, made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science and innovative Jam.

      Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if Scotland and its E.U brothers last for another thousand years, men will say, “This was their finest hour.”.

    105. geeo says:


      Thanks for the links at 08.08 today.

      The archived 1st link was an incredibly good read. (May’s last day of control).

      Anyone who demands an immediate referendum should read that article, then bit their lip.

    106. Robert Graham says:

      Maybe it will start to dawn on the more intelligent folk south of our border , that the biggest Propaganda campaign mounted in peacetime in order to stop us leaving the union was like the EU campaign lacking in the total truth ,I expect bunting will go up and street parties planed to celebrate getting shot of the scrounging Jocks , eh do you think we should join in ha ha .

    107. pmcrek says:

      I look forward to the weekly Bullseye supplement.

    108. manandboy says:



      In order to understand what is going on with Brexit etc, it is essential to dispense completely with everything on TV and in the papers, the propaganda, and to think instead about who is in control and what are they trying to achieve right now. These are the two questions that everyone should be asking every day. Nothing else matters in understanding what is truly going on.

      On June 23rd 2016, those in control, lost control, when a majority of people in the UK voted to leave the EU. That wasn’t supposed to happen and it resulted in markets and currency and UK politics, all spinning out of control.

      But who was in control before this happened?
      The Establishment of course, comprising the Monarchy, the aristocracy, a few other very wealthy people, together with those who control the military, the police and the courts, and the Treasury, including the Revenue. And the banks.

      What is taking place right now, is the Prime minister attempting to take back control, on behalf of the Establishment. This explains why Theresa May has shown little interest in involving the House of Commons in Brexit. The HoC does not represent the Establishment. The House of Lords does.
      This also explains why the Tory Party shifted suddenly to the right and took over the political ground previously occupied by UKIP. Only by doing so could the Establishment hope to retain political control through its political wing, the Tory Party.

      But what about the EU, I hear you say. England has always had a problem with the amount of control exercised by the EU. Add to that a large spoonful of xenophobia, Johnny foreigneritis, English superiority, and it was only a matter of time before the English could take no more. That time became June 23rd 2016.

      So, England is taking back control, right. Wrong!!! The British Establishment is taking back control, or rather is trying to. Because there are some serious obstacles along the way, not least the EU itself, Scotland’s push to remain in the Single market, and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar.

      Whatever happens, nothing has happened yet. It’s all just talk so far. A lot of water has yet to pass under the bridge, as the saying goes, and there is still no knowing what the effect will be of Donald Trump becoming President of the United States.

      But it is still The Establishment v The Rest to see who ends up in control of what.

    109. Bob MACK says:

      Our oil and gas just became more ESSENTIAL for English survival.(tarrifs) Will they even “allow” us an independence referendum?. They will block it any way they can.

      I trust Nicolas judgement on the tactics and timing ,but indy 2 must happen. This time I think we can win.

    110. galamcennalath says:

      Graf Midgehunter says:

      German industry recognises that they’ll probably take a hit in the short term but that’s a price worth paying to stabilise the integrity and future of the EU.

      That’s exactly the way I see it.

      May wants border control and full trade.

      The EU what’s to protect the security and integrity of the EU. They have their minds of ‘greater things’ than trade.

      I think the EU will kick a full trade agreement into the long grass. They may agree to a transition period beyond two years but my guess is even that will tie completely free movement to open trade.

      Brexit will be hard, very hard.

    111. David Anderson says:


      You’d be as well swapping ‘establishment’ for bogeyman in your post in the way that it comes across. It’s a wee bitty simplistic and ‘tinfoil hat’ time to be honest. Yes, there are powerful individuals and groups exerting influence over events as they unfold, as has always been the case. However, ‘dispense’ completely with all TV and papers and What? listen to you? seems somewhat daft to be honest. Just saying.

    112. Cactus says:

      To date, here’s a useful reminder for y’all..

      Wings Over Scotland
      Stats: 4,232 Posts, 621,411 Comments

      With now over 23,000 comments on this popular page.


      More and more people are now talking with each other online and the printed press is fading away, aye, it’s a change of times.

    113. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Classified and Sport?…how’s about Births and Deaths…I look forward to the Birth of a Nation and the Death of a Union.

    114. Andrew McLean says:

      David Anderson says:
      I kind of know what you are saying, its just funny I am debating on German and french newspapers and the level of UKOK is so strange, one purported German is arguing an GB is world leader Innovative jam argument, would you ever get a poster in the UK so sycophantic to the French or German economy. no you would not. Funny that.

    115. Proud Cybernat says:

      It’s hardly surprising many Scots are turning their backs on the colonial media when all they ever do is seek ways to try and trash every positive initiative the Scottish Government is doing.

      A bit like this…

    116. DerekM says:

      lol with the Rev`s traffic i reckon he could take google adsense for more than $1000 a month,dont hit me with your hammer Rev it was just a statement not a suggestion lol

    117. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ Andrew McLean


      Have you been on the same substance that Cactus has been on lately..? 😉 😉

      I can imagine you on a horse atop a hillock, sword pointing to the sky.

      “There to the South, beyond Rory’s Cairn, lies the enemy. ………… 🙂

    118. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ Nana 9.26 Thanks Nana – aye, seems to be working now.

      @ Geo 10.38 Agreed – sssh don’t tell her – she’s just a star!

    119. Shug says:

      If you want to know why wIngs get views just listen to the BBC
      This morning on call Kaye it was all bloody foreigners coming in the the U.K.
      Pure racism dressed up as a programme
      I am beyond shocked

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 17 January, 2017 at 11:29 pm:

      “Unionism is a terminal disease.”

      Would that be a computer terminal disease, galamcennalath?

      A Virus perhaps.

    121. Soutron says:

      Spain have already said that they’ll veto any deal that doesn’t include repatriation of Gibraltar. Gibraltar provokes strong feelings in Spain and they’ll be fully aware that this is their best shot of getting it back. The Brexit deal requires a unanimous vote, not just a majority from the 27.

      The Brit nats will shit the bed at the prospect of handing back one of the final remnants of the empire. ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’..No deal it is then.

    122. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @DerekM (10.04) –

      Condolences mister.

      Good to see you in combative spirit – more power to ye.

    123. Macart says:


      Sorry to hear of your loss.

    124. Andrew McLean says:

      Graf Midgehunter says: 11:10 am
      @ Andrew McLean

      That was a speech by Churchill!


    125. Mcglashan says:

      Unless you do ads for sheds, two pairs of trousers for a tenner and shoes that the seller dares you to wear out then I’m out 🙂

    126. Andrew McLean says:


      Sorry to hear about your brother.

    127. galamcennalath says:

      Soutron says:

      The Brexit deal requires a unanimous vote, not just a majority from the 27.

      My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that a trade deal needs to be passed everywhere, like the recent Canadian one.

      Article 50 and the two years of necessary negotiating resulting from that have nothing to do with trade. The resultant agreement about outstanding monies, payments to cover future pensions etc, and status of citizenship doesn’t need to go to all 27 individually. (I think)

      The Brexiteers and media are going full out to combine everything into a deal when they are separate issues. Part of this is because they have sold the idea that ‘everything’ can be dealt with at once and within two years. It won’t be,

      I admit to finding the components and timescales confusing. I am certain, though, that the confusion is being spread intentionally.

      I believe the sequence to be ..

      Article 50, divorce settlement, leave (2 years max)

      Trade talks, interim trade rules, long term trade agreement ( up to 8 years)

      The Brexiteers believe these two streams will run in parallel. I expect the EU to want to have the ‘divorce’ aspect well progressed before considering trade.

    128. geeo at 10.38

      Don’t follow your comment at all. We are exactly at the point at which we should start a second independence campaign.

    129. harry mcaye says:

      Wings Over Scotsman’s sport pages would be a good laugh with their regular references to “Rangers”.

      Turned on Call Kaye for just long enough to hear an old ranting Mr Angry bigot going on about “Sturgeon” and a bizarre rant about England shipping immigrants up to an independent Scotland. He sounded familiar, is it possible it’s the same old bigot that always phones in or do folk like that all sound permanently raging? What’s the call screener doing? Ok, Mr William 1690 Boyne, that’s a valid point, you’re on next.

    130. Soutron says:

      @galamcennalath Sorry, I should have been more specific (although the specifics are headache-inducing/a bit confusing!). The divorce settlement after article 50 is triggered is what I meant. As far as I’m aware that requires agreement from all member states.

      The Brexiteers are fantasists if they think they’ll also be able to bash out a free trade deal with the EU within that period as well, but that appears to be what they are suggesting.

      All I was getting at was that Spain will make life as difficult as possible for the UK unless Gibraltar is part of the deal. Where a unanimous vote is required they will use their veto. I’d guess that losing Gibraltar would fall into the ‘bad deal’ bracket in TM’s books and make a unilateral, huffy exit more likely.

    131. Graf Midgehunter says:

      galamcennalath says:

      “Article 50, divorce settlement, leave (2 years max)

      Trade talks, interim trade rules, long term trade agreement ( up to 8 years)”

      A50 first so that both sides can negotiate the seperation.
      Disentangle the laws, rules an’ regs, what happens with EU Institutions/Organisations, debts and assets etc.

      Only then when the decks have been cleared do you have clarity about where you stand. That’S when you start to discuss where you want to go in the future.

      Perhaps London won’t want a trade deal with the EU because they’ve been very naughty and don’t deserve the chance to trade with them, you know, the 5th errr 6th oh dear 7th (?) biggest economy in the whole really big world.

    132. Andrew McLean says:

      Soutron says:


      not reported in ukok Press today

      Watch what happens with Gibraltar.

      British View “The Chief Minister says the Gibraltar Constitution requires a unique solution from Brexit. And he says the UK must be ready to play hard ball with Spain if Spain plays hardball with Gibraltar.”

      Spain Says “The Spanish Government will veto the terms of any Brexit negotiation between the UK and the EU that sought to include Gibraltar, Spain’s acting Foreign Minister José Manuel García-Margallo said yesterday.
      The minister said once the UK activates the withdrawal process under Article 50 of the EU treaty, the European Council must agree the broad terms of the withdrawal negotiation “by unanimity”.
      Against that context, Spain would “make clear that Gibraltar does not belong to the UK” and would “have the right to veto” if it did not agree with the negotiation framework, Sr García-Margallo said.

      “He said once the UK was outside the EU, Gibraltar must be seen as “a third territory”, adding that Brexit would have “very serious consequences for Gibraltar economy and for the Spanish workers who worked there”.

      “The British Government has said that Gibraltar will be “fully involved” in the negotiations to withdraw from the EU.
      But Spain insists it must not be included and must instead be treated as a bilateral matter between Madrid and London.”

      Spain could make it very easy for us to remain , If Scotland is seen to get every Spanish assistance going, how more likely is Gibraltar to consider staying in the E.U, faced with a split with Gibraltar Westminster will arrange continuing membership for them.

      Otherwise the loss of face for T May would be too great.

    133. Andrew McLean says:

      Brave Royal Navy who travel the ociens looking for people to help

      they wouldn’t fire on unarmed civilians would they, no not them saints All.

      They wouldn’t fire on and intimidate scientists in a scientific ship?

      O yes they would ” oi you get out of our water, this is our bit of sea!

    134. Fred says:

      Is “Misreporting Scotland” in receipt of Ibrox funding? missing a trick if not! 🙂

    135. Liz g says:

      @ Derek M…So sorry about your Brother,my condolences to you and your’s.

    136. Soutron says:

      @Andrew McLean Interesting, I hadn’t seen that – I just remembered that Rajoy had said something similar previously.

      Don’t think Spanish efforts would have the effect of actually vetoing Brexit itself, just that the terms acceptable to them would not be acceptable to UK Gov. May was pretty clear what her plan is if she doesn’t get her way. Unilateral exit and to hell with the consequences. After all the UKIP-pandering she can’t be seen going soft on ‘Johnny Foreigner’ now.

      At least Spain won’t be too motivated to stay quiet on the Scottish question this time around.

    137. Nana says:

      Donkeys braying at the loss of Scottish jobs. If this was shown on tv we would be independent in no time

      Stuff you Scotland. We tory’s are the arseholes of the world and I as PM am a patronising b_____

    138. One_Scot says:

      Jeez, I never tire of the BBC being selective with the clips they use of the SNP in parliament.

      Angus Robertson stated that 80,000 jobs could be lost due to Brexit and does May think this is a price worth paying, but all the BBC one news decided to show was Angus saying is this a price worth paying.

      Talk about manipulation of the facts and hiding damaging information to the union, it would make you sick if you knew a fraction of how they alter and filter news in order to control us.

      We really do need to GTF out of this nightmare ASAP.

    139. DerekM says:

      Thank you everybody he had been unwell for a few years with heart problems,and the big eejit never told his family in the RoI that he wanted to be brought home to Scotland and laid to rest with the clan,so the will was fun his last practical joke on me.

      But we got it arranged and he is home now.

    140. One_Scot says:

      And that was 80,000 jobs just in Scotland alone.

    141. Breeks says:

      Deepest condolences DerekM at 10:04.

      Another one who hadn’t the pleasure of seeing Scotland’s Independence happening in his lifetime. We really need to put a stop to this.

    142. Although a daily visitor, have not noticed anyone mention this.

      From the STVplc Home Page –

      BBC Two Scotland, The Paper Thistle: 200 Years of the Scotsman
      – a documentary made by @STVProductions on @TheScotsman

    143. galamcennalath says:

      Soutron says:

      As far as I’m aware that requires agreement from all member states.

      Sections 58 – 61 in particular.

      It seems to come down to whether something is within the ‘competency’ of the EU parliament or individual state parliaments.

      If the scope of Article 50 talks and resultant agreement avoid areas which are beyond the EU parliament competency then it need not go to all 27.

      My understanding was that the EU plan to have the ‘divorce’ at an EU level only.

      Of course, this may be wrong, and even the initial agreement could be mixed and have to go to all 27.

      One thing seems clear, it’s up to the EU how it is split, managed, sequenced, and voted upon.

    144. Soutron says:

      @galamcennalath Yeah I suppose there are probably no hard and fast answers at this stage..realpolitik will probably dictate the direction of travel. Goodwill can go a long way, if it’s there.

      I’m just wondering specifically about transitional arrangements i.e. extending passporting rights for (r)UK finance beyond the two years. Would that fall under EU or national competency?

    145. Dan Huil says:

      Horse racing and tips, please. It’s the only thing missing in The National.

    146. Stu Mac says:

      @Dr Jim

      May is as you say completely useless but the problem with a lot of people like that who manage to manoeuvre (with tactics nothing to do with actual ability to do their job) into positions of responsibility is that they just don’t understand it is them that is incompetent and blame their mistakes on other people (which she is noted as having done as HS) or the world in general. They tend also to be stubborn and unbending as they think this makes them look strong whereas it can often be a sign of weakness. A really competent person knows when to give and take and listen to others for advice.

    147. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Derek M 10.04 am My deepest sympathy to You & your Family.

    148. Andy-B says:

      The sooner the Scotsman folds the better,it’s a embarrassment to Scotland.

    149. Shinty says:

      Local shop now giving away the i newspaper – according to Wiki Johnston Press, launched in 2010 for 20p.
      Named National Newspaper of the Year in 2015

      January 2017 – free copies with your local messages,(retail price 50p)

    150. Richardinho says:

      I used to really like the Scotsman newspaper. It used to be fairly centerist with solid journalistic values. I think it was probably taken over by new owners who just wanted to turn it into a unionist mouthpiece. It’s sad.

    151. imacomputerbuddie says:

      i spend as much time reading the utter bile in the comments section in the Scotsmen. most of it i suspect written by tolls to wind people up.I then take great delight in winding them up with comments like the level of entertainment is up[ to its usual standard.

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