The Coalition Of Chaos
Not 36 hours after a campaign which focused relentlessly on the idea that a minority Labour government propped up by the SNP and the Liberal Democrats would be an unconscionable democratic outrage, the Prime Minister is as we write en route to 10 Downing Street to inform the Queen of her intention, despite having lost 13 seats and her majority, to form a minority government propped up by the most extremist party in the UK Parliament.
The DUP opposes equal marriage, opposes basic abortion rights, rejects the concept of evolution, wants the death penalty back and intends to demand as part of its price a rock-hard Brexit, including a hard border with Ireland that pretty much everyone on all sides agrees risks the return of widespread terrorist violence to the province.
(NB The party actually says that it doesn’t want a hard Brexit, but there’s no possible way that can be done without NI having special status, which the DUP flatly opposes.)
But what would have been “the worst crisis since abdication” had it been the SNP and Labour is apparently all just tickety-boo if it’s the DUP and Tories.
So that’s going to be fun for the next wee while.
A DUP-backed Tory administration would command a slim working majority of six or seven seats (one result is still to come in, a close Labour-Tory contest in Kensington) – in all probability thanks to tactical voting from Scottish Labour supporters gifting the Tories crucial extra seats in Scotland.
And in one sense, what that means is that despite all the upheaval and shock of last night, very little has actually changed. May insists she has no plans to resign, and a hard Brexit is still very much on the horizon. The Tories won comfortably in England while the SNP, despite a terrible night, took 60% of seats in Scotland.
The “unelectable” Jeremy Corbyn, a leader Scottish Labour bitterly opposed, won the second-highest Labour vote share since 1970 – a third more than Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband – and two million more votes than Tony Blair won a landslide with in 2001.
But the total disintegration of UKIP, who dropped from 4m votes two years ago to below 0.6m this time (almost 400,000 fewer UK-wide than the SNP, despite the SNP’s own loss of around half a million), ensured that the Tories also increased both their share and numbers. The Tories didn’t lose their majority because they lost voters, they lost it because of Corbyn’s performance and manifesto.
(Alert Wings readers will recall that for almost four years we’ve been pointing out that a lot of fairly radical socialist policies are still actually very popular with the UK electorate, if only a left-wing party had the courage and conviction to offer them.)
The Unionist parties and media are of course screaming that indyref 2 is dead in the water. Yet polls as recently as this week showed it still around the same level as it’s been since the 2014 referendum. The SNP has lost support, but independence hasn’t.
What seems to have happened in Scotland is that more left-wing SNP supporters shifted to Labour because of Corbyn (and some also went straight to the Tories over Brexit), while hardcore Unionist Labour voters voted tactically for the Tories in line with Scottish Labour’s all-consuming “stop the SNP, not the Tories” hate mantra. While it gained six seats, Scottish Labour’s vote and vote share barely changed from 2015.
But the Nats can afford to lick their wounds and take stock. With no more elections on the horizon for years (at least, unless May’s fragile alliance implodes), and the window for the proposed second indyref is still 18 to 24 months away, they can sit back and watch the chaos unfold, with Holyrood’s vote in favour safely banked.
In short, yesterday’s election solved nothing in either Scotland or the UK. For now, everything is effectively as it was before, except that the Prime Minister is a lame duck whose credibility and authority is shattered. She’s weak, but clings to power, and that’s a happy situation for any opposition.
“Strong and stable government” is now a joke. Westminster is the plaything of a bunch of volatile, bigoted, unpredictable loonies who have their own major problems to deal with too – Northern Ireland currently has no devolved government at all, and every single border seat went to Sinn Fein last night.
Whenever the province gets around to a new election, the nationalist parties – who came within a thin whisker last time – could conceivably win a victory on manifestos demanding a reunification referendum due to the UK’s mad and dangerous actions.
(A more unlikely wildcard move would be for Sinn Fein to take their Westminster seats for the first time, which would wipe out the Tory/DUP majority.)
So Northern Irish politics is in turmoil, Scottish politics is in turmoil, and UK politics is in turmoil. (Sort yourself out, boring old Wales.) We live, more than ever, in interesting times. The battered and bruised supporters of independence should grab a beer, take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.
The battered and bruised supporters of independence should take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit
Ah very wise words indeed.
Would have been nice to have been watching the ensuing chaos from a comfier seat but hey ho..onwards and upwards
Here, here !!
Probably worth noting that Sinn Fein also have TDs (the Irish equivalent of an MP) in every border county on the OTHER side of that border. In addition, it looks increasingly likely the more moderate nationalist party, Labour ally, and big loser last night, the SDLP will be subsumed soon by major Southern Irish party Fianna Fail – which almost certainly means two parties with a big say over Brexit from the Irish states side, will also have to be placated internally to the UK – that’s a shambles waiting to happen.
Interesting times.
Will now sit back and marvel and the magnificence that is about to duly unfold.
In the meantime, steady the ship plough millions more, (than we already do) to the NHS and Education await the shambles that is BREXIT then when it is time to move move quickly and decisively. Independence is a genuine way out it is a shame others do not share our concern…roll on 2018.
So much for 2017 being a boring year politically.
May’s speech on her return from The Palace just the same usual collection of multiple slogans, buzz words and mindless platitudes.
The Tories wanted Brexit to take back control from the EU and now the N. I. unionists are in control of the UK.
Gobsmacked doesn’t cover it.
Glad Nicola didn’t resign. Sorry to see so many good Westminster MPs have lost their seats.
A Coalition of C@#*$ (and I don’t mean Chaos).
Quote “The battered and bruised supporters of independence should take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.”
Indeed. Nothing has changed apart from the weakening of the London Tories, and the exposure of Labour in Scotland as the self serving Tory supporting charlatans we all suspected. I just wonder if Kezia will notice that the ‘stop the SNP’ nonsense only really benefitted the Tories.
In the style of J Naughtie…
So, what you’re saying Stu, is that it was SLab what lost it for the good people of the UK.
The Progressive alliance tactical voting south of the border seems to have been substantially effective in taming the tories. Pity Labour didn’t join the progressives; but then they aren’t are they? Either side of the border.
Orange order bigots to rule over Scotland. The bbc and Davidson will be very happy with that I’m sure.
Independence for Scotland more neccessary than ever before.
Thanks for calming me down. I think the SNP has to become more welcoming the YES movement. It needs to reconvene this as a political movement to VISIBLY widen Independence beyond the party. It needs to, in a way, hand over ownership of it to a coalition whose can concentrate on promoting indy without having the shackles of a records of an incumbent Scottish Government. It was the focus, by the media on the record of the SNP in Scotland and the manipulation and distortions of facts and figures which helped them.
Likewise we need to give up on the mainstream media. Even rebuffs will not be printed or will be ignored by the state broadcaster. There needs to be a new proper and professional IPTV channel for Scotland. I assume this takes it out of the control of broadcasting which is reserved.
the SNP in Hollyrood now needs to be more adventurous and ambitious in shaping Scotland. they need to take the bull by the horns and change Scotland for the better. Accentuating the fact that we can do things differently. For one, they need to bring in land reform and that should be land tax or rates for shooting estates and Farmland. From this, monies could be channelled to those farmers who need it and who will loss out due to Brexit. But radical ideas such as this are required.
Lastly, offer and in out referendum on the EU after Indy.
Now that Corbyn has proved he can dent the Tories, if there is another election soon, I expect his support will increase quite dramatically now that traditional Labour supporters believe they can actually win…
Stuart, you have a beautful mind. As always a brilliant article. Thank you. I for one ALMOST voted Green, not because of Indyref2 or Brexit, but because the SNP has taken it’s eye off of the ball in running my country. Reluctantly I voted SNP yesterday. Several of my friends have left the SNP. Perhaps worth thinking why so as to take remedial action.
The masterstroke of the SNP when it first came to power at Holyrood is a dim and distant memory – running our economy well and treating the electorate with respect. My SNP MP has lost his way and fails to answer emails to our registered charity, whilst the SNP MSP is a sleekit 5h1t. It is getting harder and harder to keep the faith and vote SNP.
I believe we will get IndyRef2 and win it. However, as always Stuart, you have your finger on the pulse and this article of yours proves it. Good man.
Orange is the New Red, White and Blue!
Wonder how Scottish Labour supporters who voted “tactically” for the Tories on the (Orange) orders of Kezia Dugdale and Ian Murray feel about propping up the Conservative and Democratic Unionist Party.
Talk about the “Ulsterisation” of Scottish politics. What could possibly go wrong…?
(Ruthie’ll be needing that tank in George Square. Possibly tonight.)
The BBC, yet again, won this for the yoons. We didn’t put up a fight. The BBC framed the debates around irrelevancies, and invited the biased audience – and we let them.
This is far from a disaster for the SNP, however we will never win if the yoons can lie with impunity.
And it is already being painted a disaster for the SNP, after winning more than half the seats.
Can we the sue the BBC for defammation ? Lying ?
Or are we going to just sit back and let the lies continue unabated ?
Time to sit back ,rest the bones and watch the Brexit chaos unfold ..then pounce .
Rev. Didn’t I read somewhere that 2017 was going to be a long and boring one, politically speaking? 😉
We do indeed live in interesting times, and I agree that this is a time for calm heads and a long slow look at the Independence movement and what is the most effective way ahead.
We have lost some good parliamentarians, but instead of wishing them a nice rest, let’s co-opt them onto some form of internal review to re-boot the YES movement and see where we go from here.
What happened to the million respondents to the national question? Time to review the SNP (non)relationship with the BBC and Scottish media; time for an assertive approach that puts simple facts to the Scottish public again and again and again.
The unionists have shown that even lies, is made simply and repeated will get traction.
Time the YES movement did the same.
https://twitter.com/Eileen43Eileen/with_replies
That is a coalition. Full support is a coalition. Just because no cabinet seats taken that doesnt make it a minority government. With a minority government like the snp had, there is a chance of defeat. With full support that IS no chance of a defeat.
Those calling it a minority government are misleading.
“So much for 2017 being a boring year politically.”
“Didn’t I read somewhere that 2017 was going to be a long and boring one, politically speaking?”
ONE THING! ONE THING happened that I didn’t see coming. And since my rationale was that calling an early election would be a suicidally stupid move for the Tories, tell me I was wrong 😀
Correct Stu mandate is in the bank. However indi ref 2 mandate must be used at some point in the next 4 years. No more long games waiting for another majority. Use the mandate or lose the mandate.
As far as what will happen now. May will find it very difficult to cling to power. Negotiating with Unionist Ultra’s and the EU will not go well. One of these morons will want a cabinet position as well!
Hard Border, no single market, no freedom of movement. We will leave with no deal and soon. Maybe by the autumn. Then we go forward with indi ref 2.
We lost seats due to circumstances, tactical voting and the naivety of the youth vote. At least 10% of that Labour vote are pro indi. So 47% of the voters are pro indi. Support for indi has not changed. People just took a break from voting SNP. Some unionists switched back to Yoon parties from the SNP.
Triple-lock for indy-ref2 undeniable; United Ireland massing on the borders; Catalonia showing the way with its up-coming referendum; brexit about to rip the guts out of the so-called united kingdom; Scotland on very friendly terms with Europe – which must be kept up – and orange order nutters about to hog the media…
Think I’ll enjoy a few pints this afternoon.
My post vote comments…
………..
“Labour will probably win the same amount of seats as the tories WITHOUT tactical voting.
Seat neutral in Scotland.
Please note, the tories are ABSOLUTELY NOT advocating tory supporters to tactically vote labour.
Does that not ring alarm bells ?
Now imagine the tories win a tiny majority within the margins of tory seats in Scotland…”
………
Result?
No majority, but Scottish seats differential between labour and Tories as result of tactical voting enough to allow tories to form a government with DUP.
So the West Lothian question returns –
in a way nobody expected.
Now the Tories will need Scottish and Northern Ireland MPs if they want to get any English-only legislation past.
And, of course, we in Scotland get to indulge in deep-fried schadenfreude.
As well as being able to have on public record what our Scottish Tory MPs voted for- or against.
Lovely, deep-fried jubbly.
Suicide by media. That is scottish Labour. In invoking their supporters to vote Tory they may well have prevented Mr Corbyn becoming Prime Minister this morning, Wonder if he will forgive and forget? The Labour supporting Daily Record must reflect on the very same thing. Between them they have probably scuppered a Labour government this morning.
Yes Rev the trend of Brexit and supporting the Union was very clear, but not unmanageable. Brexit is a shambles but it will as you say happen. Then those who opposed the SNP from within will have to refocus. I believe the main recipient of lost SNP votes was Tories, and logically this can only be attributed to Brexit.
This will all unravel during the current year is my confident prediction because the whiff of power will go to the heads of the DUP and their demands will become untenable, even for Mrs May.
It would help if i posted the correct link, ffs!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB4R9YwXsAE5fx-.jpg:large
Thank you Rev. Just read this out to the family, happier now.
Sorry to be wholly negative here, but i am just going to have to get used to living in a province, which i guess will now be our lot in perpetuity, or definitely within my lifetime in any case.
Agree with all the rev’s reasons put above.
IT WOS BREXIT WOT DONE IT FOR US.
So, business as usual then.
Absolutely no doubt the SNP campaign was lacklustre. We needed to grasp the thistle. Instead we never took Ruth head on and argued the case for independence. We tried to run it like 2015, but the game had changed, as the enemy had changed.
We can’t rely on a weak UK opposition party to maintain our core vote. We relied on Corbyn being unelectable but that changed. Young folk left the SNP for Labour and we lost 6 seats to them.
It’s depressing to think back to the 2015 days when everyone wanted the SNP to win. I think like most things in life the SNP became the party of residence rather than the party of independence.
They need to be very careful about missing opportunities and waiting too long.
SNP reflect on Indy Ref 2. IMHO there are two scenario:
1) hard brexit out of common market. Mandate definitely applies. But more than that, duty bound to hold Indy Ref 2 or abandon all concept of Scottish sovereignty and democracy to be taken out of EU against our wishes.
2) brexit cancelled or fudged eg Norway, or Scottish special deal (no chance), or done pretended of Brexit but nit really. Trickier. Mandate probably doesn’t apply. No Indy Ref 2
However Labour say there will be another General Election before the end of the year.
It was John McTernan!
Cannot see the Sinn Fein MPs taking an oath of allegiance though. Pity.
Mayhem’s obsession with bring ing the SNP down to size has cost her dear.
Mayhem has lost her majority. Sturgeon’s majority has been reduced (to be expected) but remains intact – SNP remains largest party in Scotland.
Triple-lock has been secured.
So Mayhem – Section 30 any time soon would be just fab.
Over to you.
Stu, if anyone can dig up the footage of Ian Murray refusing to support Corbyn on BBC Scotland last night it’s you xxx
I wonder who Corbyn will choose as Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland.
He has more choice and I wouldn’t place money on it going to Ian Murray.
How the fuck can Scot’s actually vote for the Tory party, can we really have such short memories.
“Sort yourself out, boring old Wales.”
Thanks Stu, that was the laugh out loud line for me.
As well as the orange nutters don’t forget about the rabid britnats and their hatred for the EU. If they don’t get their hard brexit gods knows what will happen in poor old England.
Civil war in England will help the independence movement in Scotland.
Weren’t we all hoping for a hung parliament in 2015?
Jeremy Corbyn called this election back in Sept 2016 at Labour conference,
he said to prepare for a snap election 2017 and was laughed at,
he had an extra 7/8 months to prepare,
what did he see that all other political pundits did not see,
think everything went to plan apart from he took his eye of the clusterf#ck that is Kezia Dugdale and Scottish Labour voters,
Kezia Dugdale and Scottish Labour voters have condemned the poor the sick and vulnerable of UK to 5 years of brutal Tory Government.
I was a tad angry last night, but now upon reflection, seeing Ruthie’s triumphalist face…you know…. her smiley for the camera face , I know that inside she knows the Tory party have failed in their ultimate objective in calling this election i.e. to get a clear majority for Brexit mandate…or whatever…..she knows that we know that she knows her own victory is hollow as her party has diminished post GE at WM….to be sure to be sure ( sorry Northern Ireland could not resist wee nod to DUP and the coalition of fascists).
Let the Unionists gloat today but remember things change quickly in politics and there is a little thing called Brexit to deal with…..today I hold my head up high knowing that whatever happens now at least I did my best to try and prevent it by voting SNP and that gives me GREAT comfort.
Scream if you want to go faster because that is par for the course today in politics……you think last night was mental….I am sure we ain’t seen NOTHING yet.
Get your popcorn…so sure you will need it.
Have a chilled out day everybody…..we have been wounded but we ain’t dead yet !
This feels like the unionist dead cat bounce – disappointing but not dire SNP results from the last desperate BritNat throw of the dice.
Indyref2 in next 18 months – meantime 27 organised EU states will give our strong and stable coalition a thoroughly deserved mauling by daring to be competent negotiators.
Patience…the current situation is untenable but we will have a much weakened BritNat opponent as a result.
Couldn’t agree more Rev.
Nothing’s going to stop the political and economic iceberg which is hoving into view and when it hits? It’s going to be messy and all over the place. The next bit is definitely R rated and not for the faint hearted.
The UK’s governance and in fact its politics in general, is in utter chaos right now. What comes out the other side of this epic omnishambles is anyone’s guess.
Call me picky, but doesn’t the queen live at Buckingham Palace?
Sinn Fein could call for a referendum for Unity with Ireland. To avoid hard border.
this would throw a real spanner in the works.
Conan the Librarian says:
Cannot see the Sinn Fein MPs taking an oath of allegiance though. Pity.
——-
A few less seats for the Tories in Scotland and it would have been a completely different outcome.
The possibility of Sinn Fein turning up and taking the oath with a nod and wink and fingers crossed would have prevented a Tory/DUP government.
No boring old Wales, thank you – not least as many of us have been working bloody hard for the independence of both our nations and some are members of both national parties – for a good many years. The pattern appears rather more fluid than has been given credit. The Tories lost 3 of their seats to Labour. The Lib Dems were wiped out in Wales (where they also have only 1 Assembly Member and are a poor 4th in local government.) Plaid Cymru actually gained a seat (on a lower amount of votes cast than previously, yet around equal to its normal %), to equal its higher ever score of Westminster MPs @ 4.
As it’s all about winning, Plaid Cymru can be happy to have stemmed the Labour tide in all the constituencies it was holding and also to gain that extra seat from the Lib. Dems.
PS I’ll still support you, Scotland, as I trust many right-minded Scot Nats will support my country. Thanks.
With political storms all around, Wings gives us calm waters in a safe harbour. Thank you, Stu.
The Tories and the UDA backed DUP
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/06/01/news/uda-linked-magazine-urges-support-for-dup-candidates
http://republican-news.org/current/news/2017/06/brazen_murder_as_uda_rewards_d.html
Are we to seriously believe that the EU are going to enter negotiations with a British Government which is dependent on the DUP, which in turn is actively supported by the UDA.
By the way, I trust that was an inadvertent slip:
“… the Prime Minister is as we write en route to 10 Downing Street to inform the Queen of her intention …”
I had assumed that Elizabeth Windsor resided at Buck House, not some poky little house in some London backstreet …
Yours aye,
pist off at Eilidh losing her seat,how f###ing hard would it have
been to put in the manifesto :a better deal for scottish fishermen in the eu:
This would of also helped angus and alex
plus note is that alex can spend more time on tv putting snp message across
“The Unionist parties and media are of course screaming that indyref 2 is dead in the water. Yet polls as recently as this week showed it still around the same level as it’s been since the 2014 referendum. The SNP has lost support, but independence hasn’t.”
Which perhaps justifies a very broad YES2 campaign with the SNP in the background?
Remember YES1 was all about salmond via MSM.
Much better to give them multiple targets.
More on the charming DUP – shored up with years of neo-colonial right wing care https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10154920427121939/
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/tories-hoping-for-constructive-relationship-with-creationist-homophobes-who-think-pope-is-satan-20170609129202
https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/44770/The+DUP+racist%2C+homophobic%2C+anti+abortion+bigots+with+a+history+of+violence
I have seen a couple of references to the SNP’s campaign and the words ‘poor’ and ‘lacklustre’ being used. People seem to have forgotten that the launch of their manifesto was delayed by a week because of the Manchester bombing and when they did launch the manifesto it was overshadowed by the London terror attack.
This void left them with little to promote and gave their opponents an opportunity to ramp up the attacks on the SNP’s record at Holyrood when they were not saying no to a second referendum.
Luck plays a part in any endeavour no matter how well prepared you are. The SNP campaign was unlucky to be caught between those two terrorist attacks and coming straight out of local elections into anew unexpected GE. But even without that they would have been extremely lucky to repeat the 2015 result. They might though have done better than 35 which is still a very good result. That is a message that has to be hammered home at every opportunity.
If this election had never taken place and May continued with the hard Brexit, with majority intact. We would all have agreed that would trigger indi ref 2. The mandate being in place from Holyrood.
The election did happen and May lost her majority. She now goes on in a very weak position being propped up by the DUP. There will be a hard Brexit, maybe even a complete no deal walk away by the autumn. The SNP mandate is actually stronger than scenario one. The only difference is we lost some MP’s due to a unionist alliance. The mandate from Holyrood is exactly the same.
Unionists stating that this has killed indi ref 2. Are in fact indulging in wishful thinking. We won the popular vote , we won a clear majority of seats . Our vote share of 37% at WM FPTP is as good as most UK governments get. Had we lost our majority and only won 29% of the vote then they would be correct .
As May would say:” nothing has changed”. We won , we keep winning and they keep turning victory into defeat. We need to stop falling into their trap of inventing the truth. All the unionists parties lost in Scotland.
Hard core unionist labour supporters voted tory in Scotland and some labour voters seduced by Corbyn’s manifesto, left the SNP to vote labour.
If you do not believe this, look at the numbers (as Stu says)
The labour vote share in Scotland hardly changed, yet they won more seats.
Problem is, by Kezia Dugdale telling people to tactically vote tory to “beat the SNP”, the gained back traditional labour support from the SNP from 2015, was cancelled out by the loss of hardcore unionist labour support going to the tories.
Result?
Labour make a few gains, but crucially, tories got in by the back door as a result of Labour party advice to tactically vote.
Scottish Labour and Kezia Dugdale are 100% to blame for the continuing tory led government, but hey, the SNP lost seats, so thats alright…!!
Except it isn’t.
The SNP still WON the election in Scotland.
They won 60% of ALL Scottish seats.
Thats 20% MORE SEATS than ALL unionist seats COMBINED.
There is STILL a referendum mandate in the pocket, given by the people of Scotland and ratified by the Scottish Parliament.
The Tories had a DISASTEROUS result last night, an absolute calamity.
Unionists are running about shouting Indyref2 is dead, but that is patent nonsense.
That large chunk of previous SNP voters who voted labour last night will look at the result, see they have STILL got a TORY GOVERNMENT.
Those voters are largely supportive of independence, and would still vote YES in a referendum, so while the SNP lost seats in a WM election due to unique voting patterns, that DOES NOT means support for independence is actually down.
Quite the opposite is possible, when people realise that they face another 5 tory years and a shambolic brexit.
In short, 35 SNP MP’s and a Minority Tory government, is BETTER for the indy cause than 56 SNP MP’s and a Majority Tory government.
There is NO tactical voting in the upcoming Indyref.
The choice is straightforward, vote Yes, or get 5 more years of tories determined to harm Scotland with a brexit negotiation held hostage to the most extremist political party in uk politics, the DUP.
Anti abortion, anti gay marriage (how does ruth davidson feel about that) and advocates of a hard border post brexit with the Irish Republic.
I believe independence is MORE likely after last night.
Time to sit back and watch the shambles unfold.
And remember…SNP WON by some distance in Scotland.
……..
35 SNP
13 TORY
7 LABOUR
4 LIB DEMS
……………….
SNP landslide however you try to spin it.o
The SNP won. They could have won more seats if more voters had voted. Blame them. If folk can’t get off their backsides, to campaign, donate, support or deliver a few leaflets. It’s up to them. Those who voted SNP. Thanks.
In 2015 I who could have predicted we would have got 56 MP’s, In 2016 who could have predicted the UK would vote to leave the EU, In 2017 who could have predicted the Tories would loose their Majority. So who know what happens next.
With the UK having elections and turning over PM’s like a banana republic divided by Nationalism and Unionism in Scotland and Northern Ireland, pro-brexit and anti-brexit and a more clearer divide between right wing and left wing politics the UK no longer feels like a ‘stable’ state that can last much longer.
In the seats won by Tories from the SNP….. Would be interesting to see what part Yes supporters voting Labour played in the Tory gains.
Yes supporters who voted Labour need to understand that only SNP majorities will deliver Indy Ref2
On paper, c10% drops in SNP support alongside corresponding rises in Scottish tory rises look weird. IF thats the tartan tories leaving the SNP, then good. As Rev says, the SNP & Yes are not the same thing. Of course it will be some Brexit Yessers occupying their most convenient Brexit vehicle.
But, I suspect its more likely that with middling turnouts, more tories simply turned out, boosting their core vote whilst less SNP voters turned up to vote.
And some 2015 ‘leftie SNP’ voters simply concluded that in a UK context, Corbyn was a better alternative to May.
56 was a mad aberation within a clearly flawed system (95% of seats on around half the vote???). The ‘resettling’ of Scottish seats is fairer & more proportional, even if its a loss of SNP seats. 35 SNP MP’s is still an astonishing accomplishment. Just over 2 years ago the SNP had 6 MP’s.
Last point. If ScotLab/Tory/Lib fought this election purely to send a message to Sturgeon/SNP/Yes, then no amount of continued MSM propaganda/lies can dress up a 35-24 victory for the SNP as anything other than a ringing endorsement of the SNP and a clear rejection of the anti democratic Stop Indyref2 BS. This is a cold hard truth, although we know it can’t ever be reported that way.
It’d be like Aberdeen FC claiming they won the treble this season. They’d be pilloried if they were that deluded. Yet 13 v 35 (tory v SNP) will be constantly claimed to be a victory for Davidson. It just soooooo isnt. Its a clear SNP victory. Aberdeen didnt win, but they didn’t claim to as that would be nonsensical. The tories didn’t win, but claim to. That is just nonsensical!!!
Sorry, another last point. If Davidson had any political bravery, she’d have stood last night, won a constituency & now be in a much much more plausible position. Christ she might even be able to challenge as UK leader/PM. Imagine if it was she who toppled Salmond. But she didn’t. Why? Catastrophic missed opportunity for her. Doubt she’ll even realise, will be to busy claiming victory somehow.
Someone on Twitter said he’d had enough, he was throwing in the towel, I was pretty fed up as well, but I could’nt sit back and watch a good mans head go down,
I reminded him of a Bryant and (ahem) May advert from the early 70’s the scene is the 1750’s and the major on his white horse is leading his readcoats up a sheep trail in a glen, when suddenly two bedraggled Scots leap up out of the heather brandishing their swords and shouting “MON THEN”
The major looks at the pathetic figures with their rusty swords and say
” Oh I say, there are 21 of us and two of you, its a bit unfair dontcha think?”
in his plummy uppercrust voice,
The big highlander looks over the column of troops and then at his skinny sidekick and responds
“Aye Aa suppose yer richt”
you go get reinforcements, we’ll wait richt here”!
I dont know if it helped him but it sure made me feel better. 🙂
Ruth’s Conservative and UNIONIST party….that’s Democratic UNIONIST party to you….boom !
Wonder if the DUP could support the Tories in return for “direct rule” which would stymie Sinn Fein in NI and allow bigotry to rule NI again and by proxy control the entire UK? Constitutionally unacceptable!!! Who broke the 5 year rule when it suited? We are in for much more interesting times. Unfortunately, the ordinary folk and those worst off in society will suffer again!
No need for panc…..You don’t win 95% of the seats in every election. The SNP are still by far the largest Scottish party in terms of seats and in terms of vote share.
Onward, forever onward to victory
No need for panic…..You don’t win 95% of the seats in every election. The SNP are still by far the largest Scottish party in terms of seats and in terms of vote share.
Onward, forever onward to victory
When the General Election was called in April I did then make the remark that Edward Heath did the same thing in 1974 and he lost his majority.
The minority Tory Government will be quite an insecure administration during the Brexit process as the pro-EU Tory MP’s who have been remarkably quite since last year’s referendum will now able to show a bit of influence that they lacked up until yesterday.
Some frightening things we should know about Ruth Davidson’s new pals in the DUP. 🙁
SHORT FILM FROM THE INDEPENDENT.
Sorry,the film will not run in Archive.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-hung-parliament-results-policies-manifesto-abortion-gay-marriage-climate-change-who-are-they-a7781656.html?cmpid=facebook-post
The Ruth Davidson ‘No to IndyRef2’ party was clearly rejected in GE17. The SNP with IndyRef2 mandate already in the bag were victorious again. Ruth Davidson lost – she should resign.
Dugdale called for Corbyn to resign, May to resign, Nicola to resign. Dugdale 6 MP’s. Total lack of self awareness.
I wonder what the fishermen will think when they find out that their dream of 200mile fishing rights is that just a dream now more than ever the EU will get their way and Scotland will be sold down the river again.
Without these Scottish Tories May would be history so I hope Dugdale is proud of herself for telling her followers to vote Tory.
As far as I am concerned the SNP should get tough on BBC Scotland and refuse to give any interviews with them as they to my mind did all the damage to us,I noted that Vine made a snide remark that we could not refer to Scotland as having more Pandas in Scotland than Tories.
Let’s have a wee laugh….just read a tweet from somebody responding to a David Torrance tweet on how Ruth D now seemed to be favouring a ‘soft Brexit’ :
Tweet response to David was ” Who was that pundit guy who talked about the ulsterisation of Scottish politics before ”
Oh my giddy aunt LOL or what !!!
Well done that man…..they don’t like it up them Ha Ha ….Karma is a bitch.
Wait and watch folks.
Arlene foster talking there about how we are under threat from extremists.
We have our mandate. Wait and watch.
Geeo at 14:36.
All of what you say.
A future prediction. 5 years down the line and no indy2, fishermen in NE see their boats rusting in the harbours as Westminster screws them over again with CFP 2.Farmers go bankrupt as produce rots in fields because on no migrant workers, no subsidies and high tariffs. Workers in industry see their jobs move to EU as companies abandon us. NHS becomes a complete disaster as EU migrants leave. Local government in crisis as workers made redundant. Cost of living rockets as £ falls below 1€ and collapses against other currencies. Meanwhile Slab still insist they made correct decision to vote tory. But in their eyes it is all SNP’s fault.
If/when this happens then all I can say is hell mend them, they have stolen their own childrens future and all but killed the elderly in this country.
Sorry rant over.
I give it a week before we see the rounding up of Catholics for rendition to Rome.
Further Catholic migration into the UK will now have to be conducted through people smugglers.
They are voting for the Tories because they have always been Tory supporters; they are new Labour A.K.A Tories who have been carving up elections between themselves.
For years they have perpetuated the lie that you actually have real choice, the LibDems being an added factor to this mythological democracy.
I have always surmised that this triumverate of deceitful shitbags are nothing more than two cheeks of the same arse with the LibDems being the arsehole and we have been living under what is little more than a Dictatorship by any other name.
Their MPs either vote for Tory policies or abstain, that is what they are there for, but now their precious Union is at stake they have had to crawl out of their lairs and vote for the real party of their beliefs.
The SNP to them are an anomaly that is encroaching on what they deem to be their rightful place taking turns ruling over us all and the MSM stop at nothing to vilify the SNP at every opportunity with even unproven accusations given page upon page of coverage and any wrong doing by other parties either not reported or given snap chat style reporting where a small story appears then it’s gone within the hour.
Hopefully now, this is the election where the lines have been drawn and we can get down to the serious business of getting our country out of this colonialist basket case of an apparent union.
If Sinn feint is the political arm of the IRA, is the DUP the political arm of the loyalist paramilitaries?
Good grief, by my reckoning the No side have got every baddie known to man on their side;OO, BNP, UKIP, EDL, Britain First, NF, Tories, I think they even have the KKK, Hitler and the Daleks
I needed these words to help lift me from the fug of depression I’ve had since 3am this morning. You’re right ..going to roll back a bit and watch the ‘fun’ unfold. No more tv ‘news’/politics shows for me for a while, although I will be reading yours and others like wee ginger dug etc every day as normal. Thanks Stu.
We need to return to the reasons for wanting independence. For most people it is simply wanting self-determination, a sovereign state, to control our own destiny, culture and the history of our ancient nation and to build our own future. To be able to hold our heads up in the world with dignity, to have a vision for our country and our children
This brings us to the “too wee, too stupid” scenario. Those who actually want independence do not for a moment believe we are “too wee, too stupid” but this is the argument put up by those opposing us who have used economic negatives to sustain and promote the Union and have been able to convince large numbers that we are indeed an economic basket case.
To counter this we in turn are trying rather unsuccessfully to rebut those claims and try to produce alternative economic arguments which can never be proved until independence is achieved and are therefore easily refuted. There is no country in the world that has sought independence based purely on being economically better or no worse off and this is where we are going wrong. Independence will NEVER be won purely on economic grounds. Certainly we need to demonstrate that Scotland has what it takes to be independent.
We need to combine a vision for our future with pragmatism and passion and what could be. The YES movement did restore some pride in Scotland but currently passion is scarce in the SNP manifesto and has been reduced to meaningless sound bites.
Every country has poverty and deprived people and no country wants it but it is a fact of life. For many people in Scotland, life in the UK is not too bad at all and we will never win them over based purely on economic grounds.
That required extra ingredient is currently missing. Find it and we may well see the clamor for independence growing and civic squares being filled with like minded people.
I would love it if if Alex Salmond and some of the other SNP MP’s who lost their seats decided to focus some of their time on taking on the BBC. They are the biggest hurdle to independence and we cannot carry on allowing them to have so much influence over our political process. It was truly shameful how they behaved during this election and previous of course.
Problem I always come back to re Irish reunification is where are all the neanderthals (DUP) going to go?
We know the answer sadly and all you have to do is draw a line between Glasgow and Stranraer & count the scumbags “exiled” from NI once you hit Cumnock.
So if Ireland reunifies we’ll get these cretins in Scotland.
Tick tock Nicola, time to be bold.
I will be hitting the wine later tonight.
After all, it can always, always get worse.
The English Tories are subtly religiously bigoted against Catholics, the Scottish Tories are openly religiously bigoted and the DUP are rampantly bigoted.
The Tories have no mandate to govern Scotland with 13 MP’s out of 59. The DUP have no place in Scottish politics and in the UK government. We cannot have an Ulster mob in power when they openly hate Catholics.
How in gods name did we get to this state.
Judging by the DUPs attitude to abortion we will see a hell of a lot more problems with the rape clause policy.
Ayrshire is a hot bed of nasty Orange voters. Even worse the middle class Tories present a veneer of respectability. Underneath they are just scum in suits. Ayrshire is probably the worst place to live in Scotland if you are catholic.
The Tories ruined the Oil sector. In 2010 Budget increased tax to 80% (Osbourne). Thousands of jobs lost. 40% tax since Jan 2016. SNP funded AWPR etc. Kept employment up. Parts of the NE just voted Tory/Unionist.
SNP (50%) lost 13% vote share. (37%) Tories (14%) increased 15% vote share. (29%) Labour % share stayed roughly the same. 25% to 27%. LibDem share increased? – extra voters. Higher turnout than 2015?
Please sinn fein would you not consider taking the oath just to piss off those dup bigots?After all,it’s just words a meaningless gesture. Go on go on go on. You know you want to.
“The battered and bruised supporters of independence should grab a beer, take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.”
Yip. That’s exactly what my wife and me are awa ti day – a week gettin battered and bruised on the West Highland Way startin the’moarin.
You should let yir hair doon ( 😉 ) tay Stu.
Well, watch the demand for Independence rocket as it becomes clear Scotland is to be ruled not just by the mental Tories but the even more mental DUP because you can bet your sweet Bippy this will prove to be massively unacceptable for a large section of our society
Once folk start realising what the DUP are it will dawn on them with rapidity these people are the Orange Lodge with a gun hanging from their sashes plus the fact they are complete and total dinosaurs
So Nicola Sturgeon was right from the start, vote Labour get Tory, but get DUP we never saw that one coming
“So Northern Irish politics is in turmoil, Scottish politics is in turmoil, and UK politics is in turmoil. (Sort yourself out, boring old Wales.) We live, more than ever, in interesting times. The battered and bruised supporters of independence should grab a beer, take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.”
Thank you Rev, you’re a star.
Good point made about the tories working with the DUP, about how that prejudices the WM government position in regards to the power sharing agreement, should the Irish assembly be re-instated !
A new irish election under such a scenario could produce one hell of a shock of a result.
Chief of staff to tony blair basically saying it is madness to deal with the DUP,even Cameron refused to deal with them due to their stance on gay marriage for one example.
Big jock 3.20. The reason why i moved south,from south ayrshire over 30 yrs ago jock. Those bigots only gave their own the best jobs. Pure uneducated sectarian scum. Who now seem to have found their niche in Scottish politics.
This was a good result, Westminster campaigns in Scotland over the last 3 elections have failed, Westminster 0, Scotland 3. That’s the reality.
The media screaming against indy2 at the same fever pitch as before the election is a sure indicator of just how rattled they are. Confusion reigns at UK gov level, tory holding hands with the DUP, bliss holding hands with Tories in Scotland, frankly none of them are capable of organizing a clusterf###.
Right now, if Nicola reverted back to her position just before the GE was called and announced whatever her next move was going to be regarding Indy 2, can you imagine just how apoplectic the unionists would be. Sitting back is one option,pouring petrol on the fire is another.
Mayhem…
http://imgur.com/a/COIZ1
Progressive and inclusive politics, the tories and DUP?
As some have said, time to sit back and watch the chaos!
It won’t be long before Scotland is seen as being weak for letting the tories have a foothold and the tories come to exploit that.
Time for Nicola to take the gloves off permanently!
Basically speaking, perhaps the best thing the SNP can do is sit back, get on with devolved government, and just watch the UK tear itself apart – even more than it has been doing since 2015.
Indy is at 45-48%, it’s time the urge for it it grew on its own – much like devolution did between 1979 and 1997.
Doesn’t stop a non-party indy campaign though, or the SNP’s fiscal commission carrying on its work and coming out with concrete fully costed and detailed plans for the currency, and other things, including the economy
Sturgeon should start aiming for concensus in Holyrood, and resist the many opportunities for putting down anyone who gets in her way at FMQ. But it’s going to be difficult for her for a while, until she gets the hang of the new concensus – something which led to an overall majority in 2011 because the people of Scotland were so impressed by the minority SNP Government from 2007-2011 – including non-Indy supporters.
Mike Cassidy, much earlier, is the only person I have seen so far to see the problem EVEL will cause for a Conservative/DUP coalition. No politicians or pundits seem to realise that joining with a NI party will not help the Tories get through any legislation on health or education in England – and nether will their 13 Scottsh and 8 Welsh MPs.
Obviously it would affect Corbyn’s options to as all the SNP MPs as well as the Scottish and Welsh Labour ones would be barred. Ironic that uninteded consequences of Cameron’s ploy to limit the power of Scottish MPs will reduce the options for his successor.
I have to admit that should Sinn Feinn take their seats at Westminster it could be a very very amusing couple of weeks before everything went shit shaped.
I say to the SNP you are to blame for your reduction in the polls you never fight back at any time you just accept any thing that is thrown at you from the media and their snakes no backbone or courage if you refuse to fight you will never win any battles or wars imagine if William Wallace had acted like you ? God forbid yes you are to blame no one else for gods sake start fighting back I can think of many times you had stonewall cases you could have won Frenchgate etc. But no no comeback from you I am honestly beginning to doubt if you really want independence?
@Golfnut
Yeah. I think a lot of people thought the SNP needed taken down a peg – well they have been in the eyes of Scotland and its media. I’ve sat on my hands a few times the last few weeks, particularly the last one. A lot of mistakes made, inclduing the triple lock”. The usual unionist activists will go on and on and on, but they will start to isolate themselves from the normal people in Scotland. Good.
Yes, one option would be for Sturgeon to say in a week or two when the dust has settled “Right, now the election is over, it’s time I laid out the plans for pushing through a second Indy ref I postponed because of the GE. Just in case we nned them because of the Brexit disaster. Mewanwhile the legislation is ready in Holyrood, and will be put on hold until it’s needed, whenver that will be.”.
But throw a ball at the ground hard enough and it bounces back, higher than ever.
May can rely on all those blairite labour MPs whose hatred of Mr Corbyn Knows no bounds, they will as they have done in the past vote with the Tories or abstain, so her majority is probably much bigger than we imagine. Every little labour helps.
@ mike d 3:22 pm :
“Please sinn fein would you not consider taking the oath just to piss off those dup bigots?After all,it’s just words a meaningless gesture. Go on go on go on. You know you want to.”
They were asked this about 12 hours ago. A spokesman said “not a snowball’s chance in hell.” 🙂
It suits Sinn Feinn to have these bigots in power – just as it does for the SNP to have a hard right tory party in power in England rather than Labour.
Same reasons for that being desirable for SF & SNP – more chance of differentiating the vote & gaining what you want, which is seperation from E&W.
If direct rule (as a previous poster suggested) happens in NI AND the DUP have a veto on anything “controversial” then the GF agreement is gone. Given the British state can’t deal with (largely self-inflicted) domestic Islamic terrorists then what happens when NI violence kicks off again?
The answer will be reunification. There is no benefit to England in retaining NI. None.
I’m 49 now. I fully expect to see a reunified Ireland before I’m 60.
Of course that leaves us as the last colony…..
Where to start.
I sat through the night hoping the exit polls were wrong. That said, I liked Corbyns policies so was hoping he did well.
The SNP has to listen to the voters, put Indref 2 on the back burner and wait for the right time.
Not just Brexit. There is more austerity on the way. Scottish Tories at Westminster have 2 problems. EVEL and their allegiance. Is it to Scotland or the Tories. If I were Nicola, I’d be putting pressure on the Tories to make sure concessions are made. Holyrood should be give powers over fishing and farming as starters. Also hold Labour to its promise to push for a federal Scotland.
The Independence movement won’t go away. If anything the next 2 years will see it grow stronger as Brexit and domestic issues hits.
My advise, be patient.
@Blair Paterson
Problem with that is that William Wallace ended up being hung drawn and quartered and the “uprising” quelled, whereas Bruce with a more moderate and inclusive attitude became King.
Quote: The battered and bruised supporters of independence should grab a beer, take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit. unquote.
Good advice. Beer’s in the fridge already. This is seriously good advice (including the beer). Chillstep music, watch videos of train travel through mountains in Norway (Bergensbanen) and relaxxxxx…..my plan for tonight.
The time to take stock and re-evaluate where things are going and why the SNP lost support will come along soon enough. I also agree with letting things unfold – May has enough rope to hang herself and involving the DUP has just lengthened the rope further. Nothing for us to do for a while yet.
“The battered and bruised supporters of independence should grab a beer, take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.”
Perfect advice.
@Footsoldier
Indeed.
Best thing would be start every current interview by politely listening to negative ( no doubt) question and then saying “Hmm I hear you ask that but I’m more interested to ask the people of Scotland how they feel being controlled by the DUP who hold a ramshackle Tory outfit hostage to fortune?..There is only one way to escape this hell…wake up people!”
Nigel i think we all know why the snp lost support. The GE in Scotland wasn’t about austerity. It was about independence,and the battlelines have now been drawn up. At least we now know that that’s the extent of the follow follow/oo support for their yoonyin in Scotland.
The SNP’s first order of business should be to demand an assurance that the Fiscal Framework agreement negotiated by John Swinney last year and will be honoured in full by the new government, including the twin principles of “no detriment” and the continuation of the Barnett Formula from the Smith Commission report.
If the DUP are going have more sweeteners as part of their deal we must ensure it is not at Scotland’s expense.
Hi all, first time post from a long time lurker. I’ve enjoyed the patter and comments for years, but my job prevents me from saying much on here. But I’m a bit pissed off today so, it’s probably required to get my thoughts out there, mainly because the ‘pundits’ are, in my opinion, just talking utter pish on TV today (though is it any different any other day? – maybe it’s just that even the allegedly SNP supporting ones are talking utter guff as well).
My thoughts on yesterday’s mayhem (pun intended):
1. SNP votes were leaked to Labour, not the Tories – hear me out, I think that the independence-minded Labour voters in 2015 were seduced into voting for the SNP, because Ed Miliband was so awful and moved back because they could support Jeremy Corbyn and his manifesto. I also think the Green votes moved to Labour, rather than SNP too – just because everyone was commenting on how ‘progressive’ their manifesto was (regardless of SNP doing everything in it for years).
2. Labour Blairite voters moved to the Tories, because they were basically closet Tories all along – it was an easy pick up for the Tories (we all saw the type of voter putting questions and comments repeatedly in the debates). So it’s a two jump thing, rather than a straight move across from SNP to Tories – though i’m sure there were some, it’s not a significant number.
3. Independence support hasn’t dwindled in the slightest – it’s just more spread out across all parties, as it was previously before 2014. It’s just a fluke that all independence minded folk gathered around the SNP to deliver the 2015 landslide, for various reasons. It’s still around 45%, and a great starting point.
4. The spanner in Nicola’s plan was the General Election – there was a two year plan to build up to the referendum, it was all coming together nicely then May dropped that out of the blue. I can almost guarantee that the SNP would never, repeat never have started out on the new independence campaign (in March, at any rate) if they’d had any idea that an election was coming up so quickly. But I can say that this was definitely the right course of action in the circumstances as they were at the time, a nice slow burn over a couple of years, putting extra pressure on Westminster in the negotiations and getting everything in place ready for the Brexit escape plan.
5. The SNP vote was about 38% – that’s probably about right, when Labour is actually (pretending or otherwise) trying to be left wing again, where naturally around 20-25% of Scotland’s voters would sit and Tories hoovered up the Blairites and the stray pubes down the back of the toilet of UKIP votes. Lib Dems are the home of the deluded Labour voting, but Corbyn hating Daily Mail readers (yes they do exist, I know many – no matter how many I hide behind the Weetabix with copies of the Sun) who can’t stomach socialism or actual Tories. And also the mentalists.
6. Sadly, the perfect storm of all of the above led to a reduction of the 56 in 2015.
I myself didn’t think the SNP would get 56 again, or even 50 if I was being honest with myself, I thought it would be around 45 (based on my thinking that they’d get around 40-42% of the vote).
So, now that I’ve had time to consider it, I think that, with the dispersal of the Yes vote across more and more parties, it’s time to resurrect (or, actually a better plan is to start afresh with) a Yes collective, to take the campaign for independence away from any party and allow ALL yes voters to feel they can play a part again – I’m sure there’s more shy Yes Tories out there that could get behind a campaign outside the SNP lines for example.
The blame of the march last weekend on reducing the SNP vote is horseshit – the blame, in my opinion, lies with the fact that the media can easily associate this, and other Yes events with the SNP because they’re the only ones who are supporting independence in any overt fashion, and gives ‘pundits’ and TV wallopers (can’t say ‘pundit’ again, that’s much nearer the truth) the chance to tie it all up in a nice package. Any Yes stuff needs folk from across the spectrum – in much the way of the excellent videos of No to yes journeys on here – you wouldn’t ever suggest that’s an SNP sponsored thing, for example – it strikes exactly the right balance of supporting Yes and distancing itself from the SNP.
I’m sorry that my first post is a bit of a long ramble, this is just my thoughts on a rather shitty old sleep-deprived day, but happy to adjust my thinking if you believe I’m way off track. But I don’t think I’m too far away from what most people probably think if they take the time to consider it properly.
How many labour supporters does it take to get a tory elected !
We could have won one or fifty nine seats at westminster and it would have made little difference to Scotland other than a psychological feel good factor.Its at Hollyrood where we need to focus and centralise our power base as thats where we can affect things.
Sometimes you have to take a stepback to move forward and we will learn more about ourselves from this result than a far more favourable one.
Is the problem for Sinn Fein not that they would have to swear allegiance to the English Queen if they try to take up their seats at Westminster? But surely for the good of Ireland (and the rest of the British Isles) could they not take the oath tongue in cheek, and perhaps in Erse? or both English and Erse?
What a lot of those fishermen dont realise is that many of the agreements which have been made are world wide to protect those migratory creatures from extinction.Those agreements are not going to be ripped up when England drags the rest of out of the EU,niave or what.
I think any party that loses 21 seats has to have a period of self reflection. However we must remember that the SNP won the election. 10 years ago 37% and 35 MP’s would have been considered a landslide and total mandate for indi ref.
The artificially high water mark of 56 and 49.7% of the vote. Meant that even losing 10 seats would have been considered a bloody nose. But it was a victory and everything was thrown at the SNP from the unionist truck. Including a combined unionist block to stop one party.
Imagine if Labour and the Libs and the SNP had all acted in unison to stop the Tories. The result would be totally different. The sad part is Labour in Scotland are just as fundamentality unionist as the Tories. They are red Tories.
The worst thing the SNP could do is to sit and lick their wounds and treat this as a defeat. They won! Get up and back in the ring and fight back from a position of strength.
I am pretty sure that opportunities will present themselves very soon. The Yes vote is still there and it isn’t going anywhere. Don’t believe the hype about indy ref being killed off. They want us to believe this.
A unique set of circumstances created a unique set of results. We have reached peak Tory. It was a fluke like 2015 for the SNP. Party support may have dropped but not support for indy ref 2.
Lets all dust ourselves down and prepare for the battle ahead. A week is a long time in UK politics much like Italy. This time next month does anyone think May will still be in charge?
like most wingers…I’m dedicated to the Yes movement and will always vote for what I feel will better promote that agenda.
However, not every Yes/SNP voter can afford to be that committed.
If I can share a personal story..
I have worked for years and came back to Scotland to start a new career so have just completed an HND, and start Uni to complete my studies in September.
Between the courses I visited the Job center and was helped by what seemed a very nice helpful person.
I quickly noticed something was wrong with my ‘universal jobsearch thingy’ so did some research and now realise i have been conned out of my benefits, and by the time I could get them reinstated I will be back at uni so won’t qualify.
This level of deception wherein staff con people who have worked for years out of benefits by setting up a jobsearch criteria that is untenable is apparently normal practice! (for any Tories lookig in, I hope you are proud)
But i will be ok, I only have a couple of months rent to find and I have people who will help me out.
But many, many people don’t have my luck, and will have found Jeremy Corbyns promise to end the austerity agenda a potential life-saver, so they will have turned to him as their (literal saviour)
I cannot overemphasise this enough..Many Yessers / SNP voters, are living in abject financial dire straights because of the Tory party policies, and they will have saw Jeremy Corbyn as the only person who could realistically stop the Tories, thereby giving them a fighting chance of getting the benefits they need (disabled) or just helping feed them until they get a job (unemployed and those on low wages).
A lot of the people who voted for Labour haven’t abandoned the SNP, they have taken a chance on a man who they see as someone who may just possibly stop the savage treatment they have suffered at the hands of the most despicable political party ever to be in power in the UK.
So don’t be angry at people who you may think have let Scotland down, folks, because we probably don’t know just how desperate that single mother with a couple of kids to feed is to escape her predicament, or the single guy who has suffered depression for 10 years but is now told he needs to get a job or starve.
People are desperate out there, it’s not just a slogan to demonise the Tories, it’s real misery!
There must be a clean out of Scottish Labour with the likes of Kezia and Hothersal abandoned to the bin of history, and a new generation of genuinely socialist activists taking their place.
This party must support Scottish self determination.
Then the newly reformed Slab may retain a lot of the votes, if not they will come back to the SNP once they get let down yet again by Labour…
Whatever way you roll the dice the SNP wins in the end. 🙂
My thoughts for what they are worth:
1. The SNP on TV must be more aggressive in defence – loath her or loath her Ruthie is effective at harnessing energy from votes because she is feisty and dominating.
Nicola and other SNP voices come across as too reasonable and at times quite wishy washy.
We have moved on – reasonable does not work so well now….. not with Ruthie and her friends in the BBC putting the SNP constantly on the spot. Be more bolshy for heaven sake – at least this would give the troop something to cheer because at the moment all the SNP leaders sound rather insipid
2. THE SNP must have something more positive to say about why an Independent Scotland would be a better place to live.
I am fed up of hearing independence is right because we get to make all own own choices.
Well firstly, that not really true, and more importantly, its terrible weak as a sound bite.
What I want is an exciting vision – tell people HOW Scotland would be better – we need BIG policy ideas now if we are ever to get over the line!!
Ian at 4.08 –
“We could have won one or fifty nine seats at westminster and it would have made little difference to Scotland other than a psychological feel good factor.”
Totally agree. This election always felt… just sort of there for us. Never had the urgency of feeling that there is in England.
(And even with that, I don’t really know if I would share the optimism of all the jubilant english progressives on social media today – Labour still lost, the most pathetic, shambolic, disgusting government I can remember still got way more seats than them.)
There’s certainly a feeling of slight disappointment today but it’s a slight blow, little more. Eyes on the prize! Although I’m personally spewing with rage, at least for today, looking at that chunk of blue in the north east. Shameful.
Yeah, I’m off for a few pints tonight, first for a long time. Showed face in the H (and N), and that’s it for me. Need a wee break from business mayhem as well.
Katsoft says:
9 June, 2017 at 3:02 pm
A future prediction. 5 years down the line and no indy2, fishermen in NE see their boats rusting in the harbours as Westminster screws them over again with CFP 2.Farmers go bankrupt as produce rots in fields because on no migrant workers, no subsidies and high tariffs. Workers in industry see their jobs move to EU as companies abandon us. NHS becomes a complete disaster as EU migrants leave. Local government in crisis as workers made redundant. Cost of living rockets as £ falls below 1€ and collapses against other currencies. Meanwhile Slab still insist they made correct decision to vote tory. But in their eyes it is all SNP’s fault.
If/when this happens then all I can say is hell mend them, they have stolen their own childrens future and all but killed the elderly in this country.
Sorry rant over.
—–
And see if all that happens, tens of thousands of Scottish idiots will STILL blame the SNP!
The SNP get it easy in that to swear an oath to the Queen for a Scot is to swear to her in her place as Scotland’s Head of State rather than of the UK as a whole.
Ot I have just visited the DM site – who are these people?
They have no logic, no rational thought at all , just hate filled ignorance.
Mr May and her bigots and the tank commander and her bigots are welcome to them.
I understand that there are those who don’t want independence what I cannot understand is the disgusting denigration of my country , might even be theirs too.
@ WN says 4:13 pm :
“Is the problem for Sinn Fein not that they would have to swear allegiance to the English Queen if they try to take up their seats at Westminster? But surely for the good of Ireland (and the rest of the British Isles) could they not take the oath tongue in cheek, and perhaps in Erse? or both English and Erse?”
So to summarise you think they should lie to preserve the Union which they wish to dissolve (NI anyway)?
I suspect they won’t be taking you up on that one & if it was meant to be funny then you’re in the wrong business. You and your mates (lots of people today) suggesting the same things 😉
I hope Kezia and cos antics over the last few weeks in urging support for this tory party, hasn’t gone unnoticed by corbyn , these freak results for the tory party that have been facilitated by Labour in Scotland , and have inadvertently cost Corbyn a few more Labour seats , this should hasten Kezias demise , i wonder how she is going to explain the actions of Scottish Labour in the council elections as well .
Any loss in Nicola Sturgeon’s popularity
Any acceptance that the SNP need to get on with the day job.
Any belief that the Tories won the Council Elections.
Is the product of Scotlands m.s.m
This needs to be countered.
Some apt music and tremendous dancing…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PUZMdDNcyU
As Geeo and Proud c referred to upthread we have to take this in context , ALL the unionist parties plus the arsehole msm made this an election based on an Indy ref, they went on from day 1 so no one was deluded
WHAT happened , the SNP still won 35 seats 2/3rd’s of the electorate . So in my universe that tells me that 2/3rd’s of Scotland’s voters want a referendum on indy
The other arseholes and their fellow conspiritors want to spin it otherwise but the logic is undeniable , this must be hammered home at every opportunity by us and the SNP SG
It is heartbreaking at the loss of the big beasties but now this allows them to be more vociferous and engaged in driving the yes movement
Nicola MUST not dilute her message she MUST press home the continued assault on society by the selfservatives, she cannot falter , she IS demonised no matter what she does , she must take the offensive and expose the dugs co-operation in LOSING Corbyn the election , by advising voters to support the selfservatives in Scotland
Easy to be disappointed and frustrated, but with a little patience…
May is unlikely to survive the next few weeks and another Tory leadership election could well provide the delicious prospect of Boris Johnson as PM supported by the ultra-loons from Ulster. The FM should keep her options open – Holyrood has already passed the motion for a second referendum. Public demand may well be irresistible in just a few months time..
Labour got nearly the same vote share as 2015. 25% to 27%. SNP lost 13%. 50% to 37%. Tories gained 15% – from 14% to 29%. LibDems gained ? Increased turnout?
SNP went down from 1.4Million to 1Million. Still the highest vote share. No 16/17 year olds.
Indy support likely to rise because of Tories at Westminster.
@Achnababan says:
======================
“Feisty an dominating!?!” FFS!! She dominates because interviewers, especially BBC interviewers give her a soft ride. On the very few occasions when a proper interview occurs she loses it.
The SNP interviewee struggles sometimes mainly because every answer they make is interrupted constantly breaking their flow, when they manage to answer properly they are asked the same question over and over again (to give the impression they haven’t given a proper answer) even when they have answered the question fully and honestly. This of course leaves the SNP rep hardly any time to say anything on the real issues. A few are very good at managing to get a message over despite this but it’s very difficult and it’s no wonder they sometimes struggle. Dugdale, Davidson, any of them would break down if they faced the same kind of questioning.
I have to say this kind of treatment has been going on for a long time. I noticed it even when I was a labour supporter. In fact it was one of the things that turned me towards the SNP. I still remember clearly an interview when Nicola Sturgeon was shadow for education and when answering a question, was interrupted 3 or 4 time in the same (short) sentence. It was outrageous. Then the interviewer turned to the Labour rep and allowed him about 4 or 5 minutes of uninterrupted speech.
On the progress to Independence the FM was going with a plan over the months after the Council elections to give both sides of the argument for it.
Theresa May tried to short circuit all that with the GE. We shouldn’t forget that.
The overwhelming number of SNP MPs were new to Westminster politics but learned quickly, building up experience of countrywide national government. Good for us.
They had two years to develop a national and international presence, witness Stephen Gethins with Europe, (that’s why he would have been a big scalp), they expected to have longer.
Because of theirs, and the FM’s work, Scotland is recognised.
So the Red Tories got 10,000 more votes than 2015 and got an additional 6 seats.
Like everybody else I feel the SNP has to be more proactive in promoting an Independent Scotland but maybe they have their finger on the ball and are playing the long game . One thing I would suggest is to get Jeane Freeman on the box at every available opportunity , we have been too nice to long, Ruth Harrison has shown that being aggressive can work.
With Two top notch brains and Stratgetists suddenly finding themselves unemployed but with a large pension they don’t need to find work straight away , however with over 100,000 members the SNP should take them on the books and get them working full time on Stratgegy and Media.
A couple of weeks rest then work harder than ever before. In the short to medium term depends what sort of Brexit Mayhem goes for, but there are reports that the DUP want a hard Brexit, time will tell.
I was down this morning after a good kip having gone to bed as soon as we lost East Kilbride, but I have been at this for a long time and 35 seats would have been a cause for celebration two years ago. onwards and Upwards 🙂
Although it may have been a bit disappointing the same percentage of seats if won by the Tories would have resulted in a majority of 116 and been described as a massive endorsement of their policies.
The equivalent result in Scotland is being described as a massive failure by the BBC and a rejection of SNP policies. They have already had Davidson on acting as if the Tories had actually won the election in Scotland when in fact they are 22 seats behind.
Nothing has actual changed except the SNP majority is lower.
Now of course the Tories need to deliver something for the fishermen in the NE, the pressure is on them not the SNP.
As I said elsewhere I’m really happy my daughters’ (both of them) went out to vote & their social (media) group got people out to vote for anyone but tory.
As a result we have a govt which (IMHO) will not be permitted to pass any of its manifesto without a hell of a fight on everything.
There can’t be another election this year or next year unless we slit our wrists en masse as the EU27 won’t put up with it (nor should they).
A December election would mean no deal would be ratified and 15% (minimum) tariffs so economic disaster.
I am also pleased that Nicola can’t coast now and is going to have to choose a single plan – indy or comfortable life in a devolved cage….
10 DUp will dictate terms to Ireland. If SF stood the Tories will be in even more dire straits. Wouldn’t see the year out.
More domestically SNP HQ should look at all its procedures literally route and branch level. We could have done better at local elections and even at the GE.
Remember if an Indy vote 16-18year olds will vote as well as EU citizens.Lets watch the dog fight among the UKIP Tories..
Let’s watch the yoony NE fishermen drool over the Cullen skunk – They have lost due to the uk vote. Nae harm to you guys- nae grants from Scotland. Go to the London spins. Tank commander will pay you.
Just heard a young voter asked why he voted Labour,, “We were given something to vote for, were given hope”
That’s what they were given during Indy Ref 2014.
The scots must surly the the most spineless bunch of moaner that know their place
Without doubt the Scots deserve the government they get
BBC Kiddie Fiddlers Guilty
http://archive.is/zKf6x
Some fishermen were landing ‘black fish’. They broke UK Law. Some do not like paying UK tax. They overfished the seas rather than use bigger nets. Quotas have been increased because of negotiations involving the SNP to use bigger nets. People with £Millions of assets want to starve children and cut Education. The fishing industry could lose prime EU markets and migrant workers they rely upon. When the Euro went down they struggled to export. Lost money and markets. Many fishermen support the SNP.
Read Kevin McKenna on the wings page, his article in the Guardian of June5 opposite is revealing abs insightful!!
It will bring a smile.
“It taks a lang spain tae sup wi’ The Deil!”
Hope TMay has ordered in a new set of elongated cutlery.
Tories losing majority is a handy counter-punch.
Dear Ruthie…how many elections did YOU win tonight ?
We won one.
………
Think about this, if this result reflects the high point of electoral support for the union, then frankly, it puts YES in a great position.
Unionists and their pet media forget a simple but critical point, the SNP are not the yes campaign.
The SNP voters are not the only independence supporters.
To the un-informed eye, the results in Scotland looks like a large chunk of SNP voters voted tory.
The reality is so much more different.
Looks like the hard core labour unionist support went tory and some ex labour supporters, lent their vote back to labour to help Corbyn.
Presumably because they knew the SNP were not using this election as an indyref mandate.
Those labour supporters i have ZERO issue with. They WILL still support independence imo.
They tried to get a labour government at WM, and fair enough.
They may be less impressed with fellow labour supporters voting tory and letting the tories back in at WM.
THOSE labour voters can no longer call themselves labour supporters, they are now officially tories.
Those voters who tried to help Corbyn, but who want independence, or are swithering, have just had a harsh reality check.
They face a choice, tory government and no hope of a lesser brexit, or independence when given the chance.
Interesting times ahead.
The BBC does not win. The SNP won. Corbyn’s vote share increased. The BBC just annoys people, especially in Scotland. They switch off. A waste of £3.7Billion.
At end of a random YouGov poll questions about
how British I feel
do I support Scottish independence
did I manage to vote in GE
Finger on the ball, should off course be finger on the pulse, maybe Mair tired than I thought lol
The Labour vote share was nearly the same. 25% to 27%. So it didn’t didn’t change too much. An increased turnout? LibDems? Could have been more influence. Unless some SNP vote when to Labour. Then Labour support went to Tories.
SNP still got the biggest vote share. Thanks to all who voted.
Heart is sore.
Evil stalks the land.
Thank you Wingers and Rev Stu for the light and laughter =)
Aye indeed, Onwards and Upwards as ever before folks.
Love and Peace =)
We need that now more than ever before.
Scotland WILL flourish and win out in the end =)
Don’t want to post the link, as the woman in question may not appreciate the publicity on such a popular site, but a woman on twitter says Douglas Ross, ouster of Angus Robertson, bullied her at Secondary School causing years of social anxiety and he’s never apologised.
o/t but for light relief, it’s worth viewing the result for Argyll & Bute, when Alan Reid (ld) discovers the electorate still think he does not deserve returned to his rightful place at the trough. His face was a picture.
Suspect the gentleman cannot even spell “graceful”.
Well done A & B for voting SNP.
Apprentice Darth Roothy convinces Scots voters she is the anti-establishment while her Sith Master Darth Mayhem fails to maintain complete control over her dominion.
I think we should always be using their Sunday name from now on. After all, we know they are just a bunch of Conservative & Unionists Not Tories in Scotland!
A wee example of the DUP.
https://twitter.com/NMQ_Edi/status/873184340347416576
I heard Jonathon Powell, former Chief of Staff to Tony Blair, who also was the Chief Negotiator for the Good Friday agreement say that it would be a fatal mistake for Theresa May to hold hands with the DUP because since John Major, the British Government has had to be studiously neutral along with the Irish Government to hold the Agreement together and to avoid the return of the PIRA.
I have a feeling that Mayhem will undo all the good work and the men of violence might just re-surface. As Stu says the DUP want a hard border and no special status for NI which is the direct opposite of what SF want. This is not going to end well and it continues Theresa’s ability to create a boorach out of nothing.
Less of the old and boring wales please rev. Readers will be interested to know that recent yougov poll put support for Indepedce for Wales at 26 % with that that figure going up to 33 % should the tories regain power
I have .written an article on thip oll and offered it to stuart on two or three
Occasions, but he has yeto r gespond to my missives. Strange that…
But then, i don’t think that the Rev is
All that interested in the links between scotland and wales. I don’t know, maybe it’s just too “Celtic” ??
Ken 500 At 2:38
“If folk can’t get off their backsides, to campaign, donate, support or deliver a few leaflets. It’s up to them.”
Except that in some cases, the people who didn’t do this were newly elected SNP Local Councillors who the local activists got out and supported in the Local Election campaign.
May seems in a bit of a pickle, I offer this suggestion to help her out and give her the majority she craves. Declare Scotland independent, you lose 13 but gain 46, you know it makes sense.
Right off to Spain for a week of R&R, recharge the batteries not too much popcorn hope to be eating a bit better than that. Don’t contact me unless Ruth Davidson joins the SNP or Ms May decides to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar:)
So in the last few hours we’ve had Boris announce that he’s “On Maneuvers” whatever the hell that means but my guess is a stand against May for a leadership contest!
I’ve not even got the beer out the fridge yet Rev. and it’s starting already!!! 🙂
Some crowing today from a group about SNP getting a severe beating.
Middle aged and elderly men who have families and extended families who should be more worried about the next generations welfare and prospects, prefer to show what bigots they are.
I knew them and so I know why they want to see Scotland being humiliated, they are all Rangers supporters and some OO members.
This is the calibre of what the Tories attract. Absolute trash who don’t belong in a progressive decent country.
Shame on all who live in Scotland and voted Tory!
A wee while ago, in off topic, I asked how Lab could work effectively with SNP in a hung parliament while EVEL in place.
The same applies to a Tory/DUP arrangement. NI members are not english and cannot vote on english matters either. That being so, much of proposed legislation will not have a majority at WM, and can be readily defeated if the other parties decide to oppose.
As far as I know, members for non english constituencies only get a vote if the legislation passes the first, english only, stage.
Bj these “people “and their families would rather live in pigshit under their beloved queen and union,rather than as proud citizens of an independent country. More to be pitied.
Sources have revealed rumours of Davidson being enrolled in a baton twirling course and needing to be ready (or is that aye ready) for the 12th. May was preferred but age ruled her out.
BJ,
And some who are on benefits will be first to piss and moan about it when they’re sanctioned by Westminster. Fuck them. (The ones that put us in this position that is). I have no track with self harmers. Bunch of skidmarks the lot of them.
Norman Stewart. Same as that norman,17 night’s in llorett tomorrow full board yeeehaa. Wearing ma celtic top you unionist scum. How many of you illiterate yoon beggars can afford that.
Looking forward to May being added to the murals celebrating the heroes of the DUP. Apparently her favourite LP is one by Dire Straits in 1985.
I think I heard the DUP leader indirectly referring to the SNP as extremists, you have to laugh.
Sad day for Scotland. All of us here have escaped the mind control evident when observing people manifestly voting against their own and their country’s best interest.
A great quote from Carl Sagan comes to mind:
One the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re not longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.
Truck, not track. Some of them who get money for being “Depressed”, but not too depressed to bang a fucking drum or play a flute whilst walking down a hot July Street.I hope they are the ones who fucking suffer. I have a few choice stories about some like that but I know one of them reads this and they know my nickname here. (I told someone who told someone, a long time ago). A Fellow “Nat” who has since voted Tory. FFS. But I’ll say this. Those that sow the wind will reap the whirlwind. Let them sing the sash on an empty stomach.
How does Kezia explain to Jeremy her backing people to vote tory has lost him seats at Westminster .
Will anyone in our media question her on this , or will she as usual get by with a little help from her friends .
Shug says:
9 June, 2017 at 5:08 pm
The scots must surly the the most spineless bunch of moaner that know their place
Without doubt the Scots deserve the government they get
Thats what I’ve been thinking all day. I still cant believe the shire has voted for the very party that is going to screw over their farming and fishing industries. Maybe a wee spell o Davidsons Delinquents in charge at Holyrood would sharpen their focus.
Its a terrible thing to say but I’m still ragin.
Just a thought but isn’t dougdale in breach on Labour party rules? Being a member of the labour party but openingly campaigning for the Tory party by telling labour members to vote tory to stop the SNP.
She could be in trouble if her masters find out
Great read but another GE seems likely soon because the tories are jolly angry, at the electorate,
‘The electorate got it wrong’ – Conservative MP, Crispin Blunt.
Why do I keep hearing, Welease Woger!
Chris Mason?Verified account
@ChrisMasonBBC
Follow
The Conservative MP for Reigate, Crispin Blunt: “the electorate plainly have got it wrong”
Meanwhile in Scotia, sock puppet Ruth D’s being touted by all kinds of beeb gimps, Andrew Marr, fcuk knows what he sees in Ruth, as future tory leader/PM, as exact same Ruth D rages at Scotland, indyref 2 is dead, with her 13 out of 59 seat, winning majority last night.
You don’t have to be mad to live here but it fcuking helps.
Agree with BJ and bugsbunny.
It’s fine to denigrate Kez for urging supporters to vote Tory, but she wasn’t in their poll booth. It’s a tribal love of Queen and flutes driving these folk.
I simply can’t fathom supporting the rape clause, the pensions fiasco, dementia tax, the huge security lapses and police cuts around the terrorist attacks. So these voters have no social conscience, even if they one time voted Labour.
They will be very comfortable with DUP coalition, not horrified like us.
I’m reading lots of opinion on revised SNP tactics,but if people aren’t awake to the mess we are in, and the impending economic disaster, then I really fear we are in the age of non reason.
However, there is something wrong with SNP comms, because the issues, dangers, how much they mitigate are not cutting through.
I take the point Corbyn excited folk, but he got all those ideas from SNP, many currently in position, plus he supports Trident officially.
500k decided to desert SNP. The vast majority to vote Tory, because I find it hard to believe the rain put off support, ffs.
Robert Graham says:
9 June, 2017 at 6:09 pm
How does Kezia explain to Jeremy her backing people to vote tory has lost him seats at Westminster .
Will anyone in our media question her on this , or will she as usual get by with a little help from her friends .
She wont need to. If JC’s anything, he’s a pragmatist, old men often are. I would not be in the least surprised if future Sir Ian Murray OBE is made Scottish Sec again, seated right next to JC, yawning after a hearty full English.
Wish it was old Bliar MacTenbellies though. There’s something rather reassuring about watching big fat rogues prosper in Westminster.
If you’re out there Bliar MacSupersizeme, I salute you’re indefatigably. Now hit that gym and run fat boy run.
SNP supporters should note that the majority in 2017 when extrapolated to UK seats (116) gives them a larger majority than any of the following elections
1970
1974 (twice)
1979
1987
1992
2005
2010
I don’t remember anyone saying the manifesto of the winning parties then was not valid.
2015
The Press slagging May. Then bigging up the Unionists in Scotland who supported her. No wonder they are so useless. Hypocrites. The Tory in the NE going on about education. The Tory/LibDem council intend cutting £4Million from education. They have already cut the bases etc. Previously.
The SNP invested in a new academy and the AWPR. Then some voters go out and vote Tory. The Tories destroyed the Oil sector with high taxes. Losing thousands of jobs. Then some voters go out and vote Tory. Scotland votes Remain. The Tories/Unionist in Scotland support May. What a bunch of losers. The Tories couldn’t make a bigger mess. Over and over.
Anybody know when the constituency boundary changes take effect? What 9 seats is Scotland going to lose? Will it concentrate more SNP support into the other 50?
Think Nicola should start by closing the borders railway, why should we all subsidise Tory no-voters to travel north, let them get back in their 4×4’s and ‘tractors’;-)
Sarah Smith now reporting that as far as the SNP is concerned only the percentage of the vote counts in a FPTP election. Has she told this to the Tories as they have much less than 50% for their policies.
They could present the case that a referendum would be risky but they are following the unionist line.
The BBC really needs to come clean and just state it opposes a referendum rather than try to pretend they are neutral.
Am I alone in being concerned that Nicola voiced doubt, last night, about the effect of an Independence Referendum on the vote. This has enabled the Unionist media to replay what she said over and over again, today.
She didn’t talk about it. It was the Britnats and their media that spent all their time talking about it.
Not sure why she didn’t fight back last night and say so.
Is putting Indyref2 on a back burner going to gain more votes? I don’t think so!
Yep 35 beats 24 in any calculation , except when used in Ballie & Birds calculators .
A sad night for all but the unionist parties have used this to stop indy2 , it didnt work we lost a few ok, but the important point is they FAILED they FAILED to stop the SNP yet again thats three in a row they just dont get it , their union is gone we know it they cant admit it .
Way past time for the SNP to stick it to the BBC , this government organisation are not friends stop treating them like they are .
Now we know what the Cons meant by ulsterisation of Scottish politics, the DUP now have more power over Scotland than we do!
More so than ever we now need to give real support to the various groups that have continued beyond IndyRef1.
In particular Business for Scotland and Common Weal are bodies that are working hard to shape what can be. In addition there will be others, Phantom Power come to mind for their recent work.
The Yes movement is so much wider than the SNP, but we need to make sure that they can continue the excellent work they’ve been doing.
Then there’s the media, and we all know the value of that, and the dangers of the traditional sources.
The Unionists have got what they think they wanted. Some big scalps, pockets of concentrated support in strategic areas and …the DUP making decisions for Scotland.
To those ‘Yes’ voters who gave their vote to Corbyn in Scotland, I hope you sleep well tonight and your purity of ideology gives you comfort when the DUP start to interfere with and influence your human rights. I hope when Corbyn et al dither and abstain on important social policy that the phrase ‘for the many, not the few’ comes back to haunt you. When Corbyn completely forgets about you and appoints Blairites to his cabinet for credibility or worse still, Murray as Shadow SoS, think about the SNP MPs who actually tried to do something.
Until then, hell mend you.
“Is putting Indyref2 on a back burner going to gain more votes?”
Nope. Absolutely not. If anything it’ll do the reverse. Nicola has to remain unflinching and resolute in her determination to deliver ScotRef. Any sign of wavering will be seized upon by the UKOK wallopers that she is backtracking and that ScotRef is off the table and that they “won” by forcing Nicola’s hand.
They have done noting of the sort. In terms of ScotRef, everything is pretty much the same as it was before GE17 – except May is now very much weaker. Nicola is still awaiting a reply to her S30 request from May which May should respond to now that GE17 is out of the way and certainly before she is fully engaged in Brexit negotiations. And I am sure Nicola has had a gameplan ready since before GE17 whatever May does with S30 reponse.
Now, more than ever, is the time to be bold and to demonstrate steely resolve. Nicola has those qualities in spades.
ScotRef has not gone away and won’t go away until such time as it actually happens. Fact. The Yoons had best get used to it and to the fact that yesterday, having through the kitchen sink, the bath, the wash-hand basin, washin machine, wet room and whirly-gig at GE17, they won precisely hee-haw in Scotland.
YES is still here and won’t be disappearing anytime soon.
Wow, reporting Scotland going in heavy with the no indyref 2 message.
Moving on…
How WILL Auntie try to sanitize the DUP ?
My guess is to treat them like the Elephant in the room.
Never fear howevs, they are unsanitizable, the toley that will never flush away.
Re. Chilling with beer… Lewis, our new ally, brought up Mogwai (not literally) during the night.’Take me somewhere nice’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luM6oeCM7Yw
For something a bit more epic, and apt. ‘Les Revenants’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP9evk0f7Qg
Enjoy
I don’t bevvy anymore, so a smoke will have to suffice. 😉
Andy smith- aye and that’s just for starters, all the bloody coalition councils should be paid special attention, use every opportunity to extract revenge on these b/studs starting with Aberdeen council by demanding a total audit before any further funding is approved, The Tories want Tory policies no problem, let them have them and go further, back date them, right to the start of their Tory government, withdraw any assistance, Tax higher earners till the bloody pips squeak, council tax on high end property well the sky’s the limit on that one, strangle the f/krs .
I cannot think of a more appropriate time for Sinn Fein to take their seats at Westminster.
The Westminster agents of the old Empire should not be allowed to gain advantage from the division they created on that Island.
I understand the principle of not taking the seats but why hand the advantage to the DUP when given the chance to neutralise the long term damage they will cause while holding power over the Tories.
Disappointed that Nicola voiced doubt about the effect of an independence referendum on the vote. Only putting doubt in peoples minds. Got to be more bullish.
Agree clootie,and the dup would be apoplectic at their rivals who they have hatred for, getting the better of them for once and all.
We can now expect Labour to get into bed with the Tories at local council level everywhere in Scotland with Dugdales full endorsement.
Scotland loves to do things the hard way.
If 2015 electoral fraud charges catch up with tory MPs, we could be looking at a few by elections and another GE
I’m black and blue tonight and feel like I’ve taken a severe hammering. Yes it good to be positive and it turns out I was way too positive.
Theresa May announced the election on 18th April on the 23rd April a full Scottish poll by Panelbase had SLAB on just 13% of the vote, I believed they could truly be wiped out in Scotland.
No one in this country took account of the Corbyn effect less than 12 weeks ago. His and May’s performance totally changed everything including us here in Scotland.
I was as gobsmacked last night at the result as I was in 2015 when we far exceeded expectations. I can’t rationalise the result today for myself, it just seems to be beyond belief.
I’ve looked for answers and there is only one conclusion to be made, Breeks is right we must have our own broadcasting, word of mouth just doesn’t cut it.
Corbyn won because he appeared on TV and in front of the public, May lost because she ignored the public and the SNP was barely allowed a voice on TV to talk to the public.
I was very unhappy 12 hours ago, know what though I remain positive, no Unionist or media bias will ever break my spirit.
GIRFUY Tories!
Col says:
9 June, 2017 at 7:06 pm
Wow, reporting Scotland going in heavy with the no indyref 2 message.
I watched 5 minutes of that gloating and turned it off,like many more of us the SNP must get cracking and get more angry with BBC Scotland S Smith a disgrace her father a much respected man would be ashamed with her.
Come on Nicola get the gloves off give BBC and Davidson some of their own medicine.
I said previously, I predict Nicola taking indyref2 off the table in some kind of unless there is demand fudge.
How else do you stop it dominating the headlines and being used by 3 unionist parties as the broken record?
Col says:
9 June, 2017 at 7:06 pm
Wow, reporting Scotland going in heavy with the no indyref 2 message.
Radio too. Their obsession is getting quite ridiculous but it does tell you they lost the election and they’re still bricking it 🙂
https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/873188501990371330
Who thinks that the calling of a second referendum at the point it was called was a political mistake? I was happy at the time as I would take it at any time but it seems the water should’ve settled on Brexit before it was actually called. There was no harm preparing the legislation but the actual voting to ask for the section 30 was a mistake as it added to the turmoil created by the Brexit vote, basicallly adding confusion on top of an already volatile situation. The Ace up the sleeve should have remained there for a while.
I’m not too concerned about giving the message that IndyRef2 is simmering slowly at the back.
That gives the Yoons less to complain about. They will have plenty of other things to complain about soon, and the blame won’t be on the SNP.
If Brexit turns very sour, then will be the time to bring out IndyRef2 on full power. That might be over a year away … jeez, a year is a very long time given the way things have been happening!
The Tories have been severely weakened and Brexit still needs attention.
Losing a majority at Holyrood would be a disaster, but what has just happened in a hiccup in comparison. The SNP did win.
As the Rev says, time for us to calm down and have a beer.
Let’s be honest the campaign was a disaster. Not a hint of strategy other than the lazy; let’s out left the labour party. We then didn’t see Corbyn coming up the outside, underestimated Davidson’s ruthlessness with the result our biggest hitters : Salmond, Nicholson, Robertson and Tasmina gunned down. We announce a timescale for another referendum then as soon as May calls the election we down play it and offer little else other than a repetitive cry to raise welfare benefits ( legitamte as it is it’s not the only issue in town). The echo chamber then blames the BBC ( just listened to Sally Magnuson robustly question Ruth Davidson hardly the bias constantly blamed here). Have to say in a country where your own politicians have a majority in your own parliament and the most seats in another’s if your taking shit from your state broadcaster then your pretty week and timid. Time to start having a serious look at ourselves ( SNP) before apportioning blame elsewhere.
Memo to the dup and may. As gerry Adams said ‘they ‘(pira) haven’t gone away you know.
Aberdeen’s new AWPR bypass is interesting in that it cuts through some very tory expensive greenbelt westend countryside and that alone has enraged and galvanised local tories into a very anti SNP state. All of which showed last night, right up the Dee valley, sorry Royal Deeside.
But its these same rich tories that blocked the AWPR for years, already 4 decades late for Aberdeen and north east, its desperately needed for whole of the north east and Aberdeen.
Almost every comparable English town has had for decades. But the Scottish unionist tories, red and blue blocked, it all.
Blue tories won that seat yesterday, probably funded and voted in by exact same wealthy tories, that spent at million quid of their own dosh trying to block the AWPR, holding it for so long, its added a near on £1bn delay cost to the total costs. Then you have the same AWPR delays costing who knows what to the local economy.
And yet exact same tories won last night, have wrought havoc on the local area for decades, taking the seat from,
https://twitter.com/callum_mccaig
Won by this toryboy chancer, Thomson,
https://caltonjock.com/2017/05/23/ross-thomson-braden-davy-charlatans-both-surely-the-scottish-electorate-will-reject-these-two-wannabees/
Neo fascist Voice o the North Press and Journal was ecstatic today with toryboy joy, as they go out “scalping”
“The victory (Callum) is a major scalp for the Tories who have targeted a number of SNP-held constituencies with Mr McCaig and depute leader Angus Robertson featuring at the top of their list.
A number of other seats across the north-east are also expected to come under intense scrutiny as candidates watch on nervously while the results unfold.”
The AWPR will have massive economic benefits all the way across the north east, into ofcourse, Gordon and Moray, where Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond, who got the north east the new tory hated AWPR going, were both “scalped.”
Welcome to planet toryboy in the north east of Scotland, a red and blue tory madhouse region, forever tory greater England.
Do you think the scottish government should now give more powers to local areas, and allow Tory constituencies to remove free prescriptions, and bus passes and introduce tuition fees? Why the hell should you get to vote Tory and still expect th SG from Holyrood to mop up the mess and pay for everything? Sorry no more free school meals in the borders, it’s a Tory zone. By fuk that would mobilise everyone to get out and vote SNP
All the good things the SNP does forgotten by a few voters. The Borders railway, the new Forth crossing, the AWPR, house building etc. Education/SNHS.one of the best in the world. More people go to Uni etc. Plus apprenticeship and Colleges. Unemployment lower. They will know it when the Westminster Unionists try to cut the Block grant further. Already cut 10%. Scotland has to pay off the UK debt. Not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Some people should get a grip if they want Independence. Stop being so complacent. Especially not voting.
Indi ref was called at exactly the right time. The GE was the spanner. But we move on and await Brexit outcome nothing has changed.
Speaking as a long time SNP supporter I have to say that this was by far the worst SNP run campaign I have ever seen and we should thank our lucky stars that it wasn’t IndyRef2 being voted on otherwise it would have been game over.
Like others I was under no illusion that the previous UKGE result was a one off that was unlikely to be repeated and so losses were to be expected to more accurately reflect the recent political divide in Scotland.
However I did expect that the SNP would have put up more of a fight than they did.
Allowing the unionists and their media to set the political agenda and simply rolling over rather than refuting unionists fake news was never going to win votes.
Its sticks in the craw to have to say this but you have to hand it to the Tories who played the divide and rule game well with their voters appeal to Scotland’s large fishing communities to vote for them in order to keep the EU fishing boats out of Scots fishing waters.
The SNP failed miserably on this occasion to come up with an adequate response to the wishes of the 20% or so of SNP supporters who want independent Scotland’s relationship with the EU single market to be like that of Norway and Iceland.
Ruth Davidson deployed what was a one trick pony that should have been put down at the very outset by the SNP.
There does need to be some naval gazing and there is time to do so. With no elections looming we need to take stock and build a less abrasive dialogue and rebuild trust with the electorate. Political sentiment is fickle and complex. The Sanders type surge came late and caught everyone off guard. If that 5% or so Labour put on had stayed with us then the mooted 44 seats would have come to pass and May’s position even tighter.
In 2011 the SNP won big because they had governed well for 4 years. Today there are schools, hospitals bridges and roads being built, land reform to enact and a positive role to play in Westminster. Bring rail back in house at the contract break point.The SNP need to ensure these things are seen. As the governing party in Scotland and third largest party in the UK we can be influential and recapture the positive dynamism of the last 10 years
The Tories want day job, we should give day job. Policies that they hate and show up the reactionary nature of Davidson. Policies Corbyn would have no issue with but confound Dugdale.
I am not downhearted,events move on and we are still standing. I would rather 35 seats than 13 and so would Davidson. The Tories are the big losers last night and they will be vulnerable in the coming term. We need to position ourselves well but without hubris. Honest engagement and good government.
I think this DUP thing is going to bite the Tories and Scottish unionists. The commentariat and British public need to be confronted with the bigoted, extreme views of DUP representatives.
The Corbyn surge is a risk. A lot of voters in Scotland clearly thought there was a chance of a better society within the UK. On the other hand, it looks like the union dividend is now five more years of Tory government, propped up by far-right nutters.
Historically, it’s not a “bad” result (as the BBC are claiming). The SNP always struggled in Westminster elections. They have won a clear majority of MPs, even if the vote share was lower than we would have liked. Tragic to see some of the most effective parliamentarians lose to Tories who will do their masters’ bidding.
Brexit is likely to be a shambles. If the SNP focus on creative solutions to domestic issues in the Scottish Parliament, which they have done so well at, as well as speaking up for Scottish interests and the rights of EU citizens during the Brexit process, then no doubt support for independence will continue to rise. Once we’re over 50%, the game’s up.
So, the SNP didn’t stand on an Indy ticket at the last Holyrood elections to avoid spooking the horses.
Took a clean sweep (almost) in Scotland.
Those horses have bolted during this GE and SNP still hold a majority.
Is it beyond the bounds of comprehension to suggest, that standing on an Indy ticket at the next Scottish elections would still return a majority? Job done.
Why not just return to an honest Indy ticket, forget muddying the waters with EU/EFTA/Brexit/Coalitions etc? Or is the taste of power something to be relished over decades for the SNP?
Politics eh? Ye canny wack it.
The best bit of last night was hearing that Rupert Murdoch stormed out of a celebration party at The Times as soon as the exit poll was released.
He knows he no longer has the power to dictate the outcomes of our elections! People are waking up to the self serving agendas of the far right press. Hurrah?
I hear the Nicola has had a press conference and announced the INDYREF 2 in now OFF the table
If this is the case she has handed the Tories their biggest result yet. If true I see no point in voting for them anymore
Disgruntled newbies are what they appear to be.
Have you spotted them ?
Labour got nearly the same vote share as before. 2% increase. SNP support could have gone to Labour. Then Labour support could have gone to Tories. It was the Tory/LibDem share that increased. On a higher turnout %?
Tory in the NE – Gordon – majority 1000. Not much. LibDem support + Labour? Increased. On a higher turnout?
I now hear that she is reflection on indyref 2
If she takes it off the table as a lifelong SNP voter contributed etc etc I am finished with them
My biggest disappointment has been that the SNP continues to allow the unionist media to set the agenda. Not once did I see any SNP MP or MSP fighting back against interviewers, they should have just said, “This is a General Election, why are you asking about devolved matters?” and walked out. Same during these “debates”, they just allowed themselves to fall into the trap. I am sure it would have went over the head of some of the electorate if they had walked out of the debate, but once they started thinking about it they would have realised the significance, and would have realised what the unionists were trying to do.
Things don’t seem to have progressed on that front since Indyref 1, and I’m not sure what, if anything, is being planned re: Indyref 2 to get on top of it.
Maybe at least Alec Salmond and Angus Robertson can have some free time to strategise on this in the coming weeks and months, and that is in no way critical, they both have a key role to play.
I appeal to the many Sinn fein followers of wings to just think that the chance to really stick it right up the tory party has never been better.
It would be a major change, that’s for sure.
It would be like shooting at a open goal.
We all live on these islands, Scotland would owe you a huge favour.
@ Press Conference. No IndyRef? Fake News.
I don’t think Nicolas suggested individual ref 2 was off the table. That would be political suicide. I would leave the SNP and give up on Scotland. So I doubt she would do it.
James Caithness, thanks for that link to Jonathan Powel, former Chief British negotiator on Northern Ireland, explains on Sky news, the absolutely untenable position of Theresa May’s government going into any kind of deal with the DUP. They are literally compromising the peace process, as they are in fact not remaing ‘neutral’. He explains even when John Major was struggling he did not even consider falling back on the DUP for assistance due to the volatility that would be produced by doing so. It’s quite simple, May is ‘taking sides’ and to go into Brexit negotiations with the DUP propping her up is bad for all of us, not just the NI peace process.
Here is a comment from someone beneath that link, which raises an important point in the context of Scottish politics, and something that needs to be fired at Ruth Davidson over and over again in light of her party’s choice to align themselves with this party:
‘Much of the Tory “good news” yesterday was delivered by Ruth Davidson, a Remainer & lesbian with catholic partner. Will she work with DUP?’
Time to start fighting back folks, in whatever way we can.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EL4JC/status/873188501990371330
From Conor Cruise O’Brien (an Irish academic not noted as an Irish republican propagandist) in 1973:
”If the Britishness of British Ulster struck many in Britain itself as a repellent parody, the parody was likely to grate on the Tories even more than the others, because it came closer to them. Ulster Unionism was, after all, an archaic and specialized form of Toryism. Its deportment was not suited to the image that the British Tories wanted for the late twentieth century.”
As for the early twenty-first!!
(I am Irish and based in Southern Ireland)
Lol, IndyRef2 off the table, get a grip, that is what the unionist media want you to think.
Brexit will go ahead and Scotland will get ScotRef to decide if we want to be dragged out with May.
Irvine says:
9 June, 2017 at 7:36 pm
Speaking as a long time SNP supporter I have to say that this was by far the worst SNP run campaign I have ever seen and we should thank our lucky stars that it wasn’t IndyRef2 being voted on otherwise it would have been game over.
It was only a few weeks long with a few weeks notice. Clearly what really happened was this,
Since 2014, we have been living in a BBC Scotland led anti SNP campaign that gets more aggressive by the day. Scottish democracy and SNP Scots gov are essentially both endlessly derided and or blacked out. John Nicolson, is almost the only SNP MP I have ever seen on any national BBC Politics show, lunchtime, late night, Sunday. He was the only SNP MP the beeb tories could stomach. Look at how the whole the tory media is revelling in Alex Salmond losing, temporarily:D
When Sturgeon called indyref2 in March, the whole of BBC led yoon culture went, “we said NO” apeshit. Its likely that stamping out Sturgeon’s indyref2 or at least using it for the tory GE in Scotia, was one of the bigger drivers behind Mayhem’s snap GE.
BBC Scotland already building on years of anti SNP attack propaganda were now able to go huge with Ruth D, Kez D, my Slovene girlfriend etc, all riling up red and blue tory unionists.
And this is all we are going to get from massed ranks of BBC vote tory vote attack propaganda, til the end of time, tory time, even though its probably only gained yoons less than a dozen Scottish seats.
liked Katie Allsop’s, long term Tory supporter, comment on Channel 4 News that £13 million spent on an unnecessary GE just to give the SNP a bloody nose.
Did Theresa May listen to Ruth the Mooth during her walk in the Welsh hills which resulted in no Tory MPs in Wales?
The following just occurred to me.
After being delayed for a week by the Manchester Bombing The SNP was launched in Perth in front of a huge crowd of supporters accompanied by what was universally reported as a brilliant speech form Nicola.
However, the funny or not so funny thing is that after initial minimal media coverage the manifesto and its content was hardly ever mentioned again.
I suppose because the manifesto was a GE manifesto concerned with what The SNP would support at WM it didn’t suit the Guys In The Black Hats as that would distract from their ultimately successful campaign to make the election in Scotland all about devolved matters and Indyref2.
Stu, your last paragraph sums it up nicely.
Just imagine if Labour with the help of the SNP and others had formed a coalition, the blame of the impending disaster that is Brexit would have landed on our lap, the Rap*Clause Tories would be guaranteed eternal election wins.
So lets sit back and laugh from the side lines at the implosion of the Tories,(yes it will happen),the north east fishermen will be the first to stick the knife in when they realise they have been shafted big time.
Gutted Paul Monaghan lost his seat, I had the pleasure of listening to him speak at a recent Friends of Palestine talk in Inverness, a politician of integrity, decency and ability, he will be back when he chooses, he was tear gassed in Palestine in spite of being a UK MP, you never heard that on the BBC. Looks like the DUP will be the scape goats.
So to end, a wee message for the gang, when any smug Yoon tries to have a wee dig at their success!! just reply politely, ” Aye its all going to plan”
Wullie -I hear the Nicola has had a press conference and announced the INDYREF 2 in now OFF the table
Think I’ll wait to hear that from the horses mouth – too much shite going around today already.
Having read most of the comments on this thread, the question that arises is “can independence be left to the SNP”?
Mind you, I do not see an alternative, apart from a permanent Yes campaign
My comment at 8.04
p.2 line 1 should read ‘The SNP Manifesto’.
Snp ain’t going to take indy off table.
It’s their raison d’etre.
“Nous avons cherché a l’écosse pour toutes les idées du monde”(voltaire the greatest french thinker)We have looked to scotland for all the ideas of the world.We should not be living in the shadow of any nation nevermind England.
We step back revaluate,re-energise and move on.
Scottish unionists and Ulster unionists have joined forces to put the tories back in charge. The SNP is now on the backfoot and has to play the long game. Let’s use that time to set out a compelling vision of what an independent Scotland might look like.
Can I ask, if this had been the 2015 GE, what would folks reaction be?
Wullie says:
9 June, 2017 at 7:45 pm
I hear the Nicola has had a press conference and announced the INDYREF 2 in now OFF the table
If this is the case she has handed the Tories their biggest result yet. If true I see no point in voting for them anymore
Please just stop it now – the Britnats are in full destroy the SNP mode. Hang together, folks, come one…
Ken 500
I know some fishermen support the SNP.
Problem is they are too quiet and allow a loud mouth loyalist and some dubious right wingers to take charge and speak on behalf of “British” fishermen
When Hull takes their jobs maybe they will shout that is Scotish fish.
It’s a funny mentality. The SNP have just won an election in Scotland outright. So slag off the SNP. Instead of giving more support. More people going out and voting etc.
Doing the Unionist work for them. Then still complaining.
Split personality syndrome. The MSM slagging off May. Then bigging up the Tory/Unionist losers who supported her. No wonder people turn off. A load of nonsense.
@Jamieboy
Fuck off with your echochambers and your defending of the BBC lying journalists (just listened to Sally Magnuson robustly question Ruth Davidson hardly the bias constantly blamed here).
If you don’t like what you hear then why fucking post.
Folks, indyref is not off the table. The media, especially the propagandist BBC have been making out that is what was said. It wasn’t. Just wishful thinking on their part.
The BBC, speaking pro London-rule lies unto Scotland 24/7.
The SNP won a landslide majority in Scotland last night. They are the largest party by MPs, MSPs, councillors and party membership in Scotland, and are the third largest UK political party, and all by a very, very large margin.
So, calm doon folks – and stop believing unionist sh*te.
Folks indy starting from a much higher position than Corbyn did.
By being bold and standing behind his principles (except for trident) he attracted people who were politically dormant.
There is no prospect of Sinn Fein taking their seats at WM, the oath or affirmation makes it pretty much impossible for them. Much as it would make things interesting, I think we have to look at the reality.
The fishing industry is probably 50/50. Some are big SNP supporters and donors. So are some farmers. The Tories in Gordon got 1000 majority. When Brexit comes or Block grant is cut. There will be many regretful voters. Alex will come back again. Look at Holyrood. They didn’t crow long. Just a few Tory opportunists. They haven’t a clue. Hull fishermen came to Scotland. Many went into the Oil sector. Rigs and supply boats etc. Better conditions.
The Tories didn’t give the SNP a bloody nose. They lost in Scotland and England. Two times losers.
Kirsty should try looking at the electoral map. Or stick to fleecing house buyers,
@Jamieboy
What is the point of robustly questioning Davidson after the election, I believe most of us would liked to have seen it before the vote. In fact it proves the point as they could have questioned her on WM policy earlier but decided not to.
Lazy response Thepnr – explain why Corbyn defied the media yet the echo chamber here resort to scapegoat BBC for utter shambles of SNP campaign
Hi Wales – Greetings to you. You are definitely not boring. Stu’s just been up all night and in a strop. We are all out of sleep. I’m having a gin to revive myself since I can’t take my eyes of the screen. Every few minutes brings a new development.
BTW Nicola did not say that Indyref2 is off the table. She did say it had affected the vote. You would have to be very dense not to notice the Unionist hysterical “No Referendum” propaganda. Happily, with the No Referendum voters gone, the SNP is still on 35 seats – 60%.
The media are spinning like mad.
The horror of a Tory/DUP alliance is dawning on us all. It won’t end well.
Reasons to be cheerful – the SNP won the election.
Nicola already has a mandate for Indyrf2 endorsed by the Scottish Parliament.
The Tories are fighting like ferrets in a sack. Soon it will spill out of the sack onto the media.
Sit back and enjoy the spectacle. Everyone else in Europe is.
Jamie/Ruth
A lazy response to unionist trolls is more than enough.
Why let the enemy derail by engaging ?
Do one.
I’ve still got that awful gut wrenching feeling in the pit of my stomach.When will it go away please!
Dark forces could come to the fore and into the open here in Ayrshire. Oh forgot we already have them from over the water.
Could be time for pastures new. I’ll sleep for a month on it,then decide.
@Jamieboy
You trolls love to use words like “echochamber” or “hivemind” like a buddy of yours does.
We Wingers DO think the same, we feel the same and that is the point of us being here because we have a common aim. A goal that the likes of you will not stop us from achieving.
So go stick your head under the covers and allow us bees to get on with it.
IT’S YOU WHO ARE THE OUTSIDER.
Macca73@5.48
“Boris away on manoeuvers,” I think that means he is sitting on the bog Sh*tting himself.
I apologise to all wingers. I was given the wrong info from a family member. All in a tizzy today.
@capella:
“The Tories are fighting like ferrets in a sack. Soon it will spill out of the sack onto the media. Sit back and enjoy the spectacle. Everyone else in Europe is.”
Here is a tweet by “Robert Peston ?Verified account” @Peston 5h5 hours ago:
QUOTE
Senior Tory MP: “We all f***ing hate her. But there is nothing we can do. She has totally f***ed us”.
If anything demonstrates the unsuitability of May to hold high office is the jumping into bed with the DUP, she is an opportunist not a leader. It also further reveals the unsuitability of Davidson as a leader, willing to condone such an allegiance.
Message for David Mundell;
Yer new masters think yer a poof! Have you ever heard of “pride”, David? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB4D-llWAAIMHq9.jpg
Full tweet can be found on this twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/katiec1314
Mind you, David, nobody knows the depths to which you will sink, eh? After-all, was it 20 or 30-odd years you lived a lie for?
Jim Sillars didn’t waste any time to sink the boot into the SNP. As usual!
OK Thepnr I’ll leave you in your own wee world tucked up to share your fantasies, cacooned from real debate on how to shape an independent nation
@Jamieboy
I agree the campaign was not as focused as last time but I put that down to the election being announced during the council election campaign. I think they were caught unprepared and trying to organise two campaigns. The unionist parties simplified this by only having only policy for both campaigns.
@ Frank Wright – it’s hilarious – the Tories are as evil to each other as they are to the rest of us. Back stabbing – they invented it!
Wullie – keep calm and carry on – they want us to be downhearted but we aren’t going to be.
Courage Merry – LOTR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWANZFdMwz0
Voter fatigue could have been an issue too. We had the referendum in 2014, a general election in 2015, Scottish Parliament elections and Brexit referendum in 2016, and then council elections and another general election in 2017. The three unionist parties and the media talked of nothing but independence during the last three elections. If people have “had their fill”, then that’s why.
@Jamieboy
Where were you before today when we could have done with your undoubtedly helpful input to the question of “how to shape an independent nation?”
For some reason the SNP seemed ashamed and embarrassed to mention the “I” word during this campaign.
They need to get over this quickly and put Independence back to the top of the agenda.
If not wee Ruthie and the rest of the Yoon brigade will have achieved what they set out to do, to kick IndyRef2 right into touch.
They must not succeed.
BBC reverts to type when the third force at Westminster the SNP are denied a space on tonight’s Question Time .
Must be hard for them when no justification for UKIP representative.
Thepnr,
don’t let the troll spoil your night.
Get back to what you do best, which is your down to earth constructive comments.
OMG – just look at the DUP and Arlene Foster’s sing-a-long – from Stu’s twitter:
https://twitter.com/graham4sinead/status/873244809410031620
Thepnr says:
@Jamieboy
“Where were you before today…”
nuff said !
jfngw @ 8:21 pm
Re-oath or affirmation for MPs at Westminster, are you aware of this?
https://www.republic.org.uk/petition/peoples-oath
If I hear one more person saying Indy Ref 2 is dead, I will flatten them. Guy in my work Said:” What happened to your party”. I said “What we won the election.”
Other said :” That’s indy off the table now”. I replied no its exactly as it was we won the election and are awaiting tbecBrexit outcome.
:” Aye but it was the swing to Tories eh” Aye they won 13 seats we won 35.
We are going to here a loy of this pish folks. Again nothing has changed. If anything we need to be more hard nosed with these ignorant fannies.
Independent newspaper reporting Corbyn just 2.227 votes more in marginals and he would be PM
With the Scottish branch party getting six additional seats with just 10,000 more votes than 2015 wonder how much the drench weather played a part considering the elderly Tories vote would have mainly postal voted.
Cant be arsed archiving watching the TT
i think stu is right, this changes nothing
usually elections decide something but this one settled nothing
we are all as ignorant about what brexit means today as we were yesterday.
all todays hype will die off in a few days and the news will focus on brexit
so lie back and have a glass of wine and watch it unfold, it will start to focus everyones mind when they realise what it was they voted for yesterday, the empty rhetoric by the unionists wont cut the mustard when pensions and savings get wiped out and job losses mount
we will have indyref2 when the moment is right, ie when the majority demand it (re scream for it)
Capella says:
9 June, 2017 at 9:16 pm
OMG
This is only the start I’m afraid. How Westminster can even contemplate getting into bed with this lot is disgusting.A fecking stitch up if ever i saw one- dark days are coming back,sorry to say.
I think even the chuckle brothers McGuinness and Paisley will be turning in their graves today. When is this from date wise?
Great tweet on wings twitter regarding inconsistency of Davidson and majorities.
I assume as Davidson claims SNP does not have majority on their own to carry out manifesto the major media outlets will query with her the position of the Tories and their lack of majority.
I look forward to Davidson now withdrawing this assertion or refusing to be supported by another party, anything else will look a bit cynical.
Well at least the Catilonians are showing the way for the S.N.P., in as much that they are going to go ahead with an independant referendum, despite Spain saying “no ” ( like eh, now is not the time ),
Meanwhile here in Scotland, the population remain grovelling in the sh<%t, and doing it while on their knees !, a proud nation?, I think not, any nation which is more than willing to rather have its
affairs determined by another political identity, deserves to be a laughing stock, by the world at large.
Thepnr,
“Yes it good to be positive and it turns out I was way too positive.”
As were your fellow armchair pundits relentlessly attacking me for my “negativity”.
On principle, you oppose everything I post.
Rock,
“Unfortunately, more than 20% of the voting public in Scotland remains stupid enough to vote for Labour.”
Thepnr,
“Just thought I should mention I think Labour in Scotland will be lucky if they get 15% of the vote in this GE. Hopefully less.”
Never underestimate the British Establishment and never overestimate Scots.
@ Robbo – I don’t know when the clip was filmed but it looks very recent to me because of Arlene Foster’s outfit and hairdo. It’s from the twitter feed of Graham Freeman and is published today.
https://twitter.com/graham4sinead
As I have said before, Scotland will not become independent until the BBC has been completely destroyed.
Our priorities should be:
1. Completely destroy the BBC;
2. Hold an independence referendum.
We ran away when Tommy Sheridan needed our help and have no right to ask him to lead the fight.
Unfortunately, no-one else in Scotland has the spine to take on the BBC in an anti-poll tax like fight.
gus 1940 @ 8.04
I noticed pretty well immediately that the SNP manifesto disappeared almost without trace. It was reduced by the media to ‘SNP pulls back from indyref’ based on a wilful misrepresentation of the very small section in the manifesto that mentioned independence. That phrase or close to it was used across just about every news outlet the following day to the exclusion of all else.
It suited the media to promote this message and it suited the Unionist parties for obvious reasons. Jon Snow even used that phrase when he interviewed Ms Sturgeon on Tuesday 6th June. So it endured.
Interviewers and the Unionist parties, as you noted, also concentrated on the devolved areas to the exclusion of all else. In effect they were re-running the 2016 Holyrood election hoping for a different outcome no doubt. Did not work. They lost again.
The SNP were unlucky in so far as their manifesto was delayed and it’s eventual loss was overshadowed by yet another terrorist incident. These incidents effectively put their campaigning on hold for almost 10 days at a crucial point in the election. No matter how well a campaign is planned and executed luck still plays a part and on this occasion luck, and unforseen events, were against them.
Final seat is called. Labour have won Kensington from the Tories. Kensington!
Reading between the lines – or listening between shouting BS at the radio – it appears a lot of younger voters have become energised and bothered their ass to vote. Perhaps the Brexit clusterfuck was a wake up call for them.
One can only hope that is true. We need them to vote in Indyref2 to defeat the decrepit and dependent who cost us our freedom in 2014. Every cloud has its silver lining.
My humble advice to Nicola:
It is time to stop flogging a dead horse as you did for months – a separate deal for Scotland in the EU is not going to happen.
Don’t demand a place at the negotiating table. Let Saint Theresa get on with it. Why dirty yourself?
Saint Theresa will refuse to grant permission for an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.
Will you have the spine to hold one before Brexit has been completed, according to your timetable?
I hope so.
Stop protecting ungrateful classes who take advantage of SNP policies but betray the SNP when the time comes.
These classes are the selfish middle classes, the British nationalist elderly, the thugs and the English.
Give top priority to uplifting the downtrodden folks in the schemes. They will not let us down when the time comes.
To the likes of Thepnr, how did embracing Tories to our cause work out?
You do HUMBLE Rock ?
🙂
Robbo, The DUP have been supporting the Tories in the UK Parliament for years it’s nothing new it’s not a coalition but a supply and confidence agreement only. The big difference is that now they have the Tories by the balls.
With the DUP, Saint Theresa will have the right wing support she wouldn’t have had with her own Tory majority.
It will suit her perfectly to be pulled to right wing extremism by the DUP, and she will have the perfect excuse for it.
A fool and idiot would have some sense of shame.
Vile Tory scum like Saints Theresa and Davidson don’t have a shred of shame.
defo,
“You do HUMBLE Rock ?”
When I feel a bit sorry for poor, pompous souls like Thepnr and Robert Peffers.
Kensington went to labour after 3 recounts no many votes in it at all,
https://twitter.com/i/moments/873255761824153601
“Just a thought but isn’t dougdale in breach on Labour party rules? Being a member of the labour party but openingly campaigning for the Tory party by telling labour members to vote tory to stop the SNP.”
She never said it explicitly.
Tomorrow’s National front page:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB6F39BXcAA1fsK.jpg
Tomorrow’s “National” twitter pages:
https://twitter.com/ScotNational
Can I do some humbling too then ?
What say we call a truce.
You have your views ( I agree we need to engage with those who would most benefit from Independence, but see no sense in making it an either/or issue), and pet hates. Others theirs.
I see common ground in this dichotomy.
I’ve had a wee ‘misunderstanding’ with thepnr too, but we found enough humility & common ground between us to let it go.
Mr P can seem abrasive (to the point of humiliating others), but then so can you.
I have my intemperate moments too.
Truce ? Be the bigger man.
Go on, I dare you, ya big fanny 😉
John Simpson saying the tabloid press have lost their power, is this why the BBC are so openly bias now? Tonight’s Reporting Scotland was half an hour of no indyref 2. They really ramped it up to full power. It’ll only get worse too.
I have had some sleep and feel refreshed.Let us look firstly for the positives.
1. The SNP won more seats than all the others combined.
2. I think we can safely say that May ,deprived of a majority of sufficient Tory MP’s can no longer attempt what we all feared she would do. Shut Holyrood down, or deprive it of powers. It would be political suicide for the votes of a devolved legislature to deprive another devolved legislature of power.
We now know that the SNP attack was flawed and weak. We must insist on that changing. Too often our MP’s tried to spread their butter too thinly for too many. We are basically trying to appeal to hardened Unionists and the concessions and weakness in that approach were there for all to see.
How often did our MP’s allow themselves to be dragged into a discussion purely on devolved matters which should have come from Holyrood MSP’s. They had no idea how to re frame that argument on the hoof.
Enough for now. I have some ideas that I will expand on in time.we fight on.
@ manandboy who wrote “Are we to seriously believe that the EU are going to enter negotiations with a British Government which is dependent on the DUP, which in turn is actively supported by the UDA”.
Ah . . . but the UDA are so very “british” terrorists!!And thugs!! And gangsters!!!
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/uda-very-british-terrorists/
Don’t over think this guys.
It’s the media which stymies Independence. It really is that simple.
I don’t think the SNP is doing anything particularly wrong. Paradoxically, the hostility of the media is probably keeping the party squeaky clean.
The SNP is not “losing”, and the Unionists certainly aren’t winning. The problem is the media maintaining an artificial reality which becomes something of a self fulfilling prophesy.
If we can secure neutral objective coverage of the arguments, where soundbites and glib arguments are robustly deconstructed, I believe Independence will be the “shoe in” it really always should have been.
But the SNP has to get creative, and must develop an effective countermeasure to the ubiquitous propaganda.
I’ve heard enough of this “broadcasting is reserved. There is nothing we can do”. That statement, right there, is the point in space and time where we Scots abdicate our freedom. We accept our subjugation and defeat, and the futility of our resistance to the BBC.
Said it a hundred times. Forget the BBC. Leave it to stew in its own juice. But for goodness sake, find a way to secure a small but vital part of Scotland’s digital airwaves for truly Scottish broadcast news and current affairs.
We don’t have to storm the Winter Palace, or slaughter one another in civil war. Our culture, constitution and heritage only requires us to overcome a monstrous edifice of broadcast propaganda. Once that is done, truth and common sense will do the rest.
Just imagine, on every day in the week or fortnight before the ScotRef referendum we had a Scottish TV channel not broadcasting a shouty entertainment style Leaders debate, but instead a measured, objective, considered and APOLITICAL summary of the Independence issues; say an hour long episode to articulate the economic pros and cons. Then, next night, the subject is defence. The next night it’s Europe and Brexit. Then energy. Then Transport. Then Education. Then the NHS.
If we have control, we can “frame” our own discussions not to broadcast pro-Indy propaganda, but put rigid structure, knowledge and certainty into the whole debate. Inform our people so they can make an informed decision. Let us stop allowing the BBC to cheapen the debate into a clash of personalities and tribalism.
But we have to start doing this soon, or it won’t happen at all, or happen too late.
Capella @ 9 June, 2017 at 9:16 pm
That is not the original audio. It has been added as a ‘joke’.
defo,
“Can I do some humbling too then ?
What say we call a truce.”
A truce would need the agreement of two sides.
Diehard Rock haters posting here are like Scottish Labour.
They would never accept that they were wrong.
As soon as they lose the argument, they throw the “T” word and personal insults at you.
“Mr P can seem abrasive (to the point of humiliating others), but then so can you.”
Mr P is an aggresive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.
I am nowhere like him.
Rock.
More than once, I have defended your right to be here and have your say, but…
You do come across as, shall we say ‘vehement’.
Let the National thing go.
You may be right, who knows, but they are worth it for the front page alone. Remember, it’s ALL about the headline.
Feck me, the Daily Heil have been trading on that since Oswald Mosley was in fashion.
“A truce would need the agreement of two sides.”
Quite.
Actually, come to think about it, after these tremendous Journey to YES videos, maybe it’s the guys at Power Films we should be speaking to, with further input from our friend and media watchdog Mr Ponsonby.
G 10:42
Capella @ 9 June, 2017 at 9:16 pm
That is not the original audio. It has been added as a ‘joke’.
Really? So who added it? And what were they actually singing? It certainly looked like a clip from T2, but if not genuine then please supply link to confirm.
Breeks,
“The SNP is not “losing”, and the Unionists certainly aren’t winning.”
I am afraid the reality is that the SNP lost 22 seats which the unionists won.
Like it or not, the SNP and the independence movement are big losers, exactly what Saint Theresa and the British Establishment wanted to thwart an independence referendum.
The mantra “No one wants an independence referendum” is now much stronger.
Nicola herself has admitted that the referendum was one of the factors for the loss of seats.
The biggest mistake Nicola made was wasting months flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.
Instead she should have prepared the people of Scotland for independence by stating in very clear terms that the only way for Scotland to be in the EU was by becoming independent.
Quite a lot of people saying that young people and the way they were influenced by social media was major contributor to Labour’s resurgence (though they still lost). How come that didn’t work for the SNP particularly with so many good pro Indie websites including this one?
@ G who said:
9 June, 2017 at 9:02 pm
“Voter fatigue could have been an issue too”.
Puh-leeze – I did my best to spread the word about voter/referendum fatigue aka electionitis
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2017/03/02/referendumvoting-fatigue-also-known-as-electionitis/
Just hope people take the message on board for the next election!!!
defo,
“Let the National thing go.
You may be right, who knows, but they are worth it for the front page alone. Remember, it’s ALL about the headline.”
I have long been calling for front page WOS type headlines and articles every day.
Instead it usually has mild headlines which more or less follow the unionist narrative.
It has deliberately missed endless opportunities for hard hitting headlines.
Why?
Because its support for independence is totally fake.
Expect it to go quite strong on independence for the next few months in the safe knowledge that an election or referendum is not going to happen soon.
Can I make a wee suggestion and keep the signs up for as long as possible but add to them ie add to the end of stronger for Scotland add not the DUP, or no to dementia tax, etc.
Rock
“The biggest mistake Nicola made was wasting months flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.”
I knew that, you knew that, and you can be 100% sure NS did too.
It’s called ‘Politics’.
Opposing Hard Brexit was the only game in town.
Some slack needing cut here too maybe ?
Whilst were on politics… Maybe a positive lobbying of the wider audience here, to get them on board with your very valid message about targeting the schemes ?
How do we get the apathetic (it’s what the Tories have always relied on) engaged with changing their future ?
How do we get it out to a wider audience that Auntie is, and always has been a lying old bitch ?
Positive thinking leads upwards. Negativity (born out of frustration, I know the feeling) only heads downwards.
I’m on board.
The DUP or, as it should be known, – the political wing of the Orange Order.
So Sillars thinks the SNP election material was all Nicola, Nicola, Nicola.
He’s in another reality surely.
What we received stood out as candidate-specific, with background, actual policies (a novelty I know). What we got from the Tories was “Ruth’s candidate, Ruth this, Ruth that, No surrender garbage.
So Reporting Scotland went up to NE wickerman country (my place of birth!) and interviewed Yoon after ignorant old Yoon. By God those fishermen are thick.
Rock
“Because its support for independence is totally fake.”
You say fake, I say commercially motivated. They all are, at heart.
Having Stu contribute, either weekly, or ad hoc, would be a sure fire winner. For us, our cause. And them, survival wise.
Some peeps here have the ear of the National. ?
We won last night with 35 seats out of 59. We came second in 24 seats and some of them by the smallest of majorities. 35 + 24 = 59. That’s how close we were.
Labour was second in only 25 seats.
Tories second in 9.
Don’t forget, we tried to fight 59 seats; the Tories targeted fewer than half that, Greens only 3 seats.
It’s much easier to target only a few seats to saturation point
We lost several great MP’s but the good news is that these people may well remain based in Scotland now and can only help strengthen things here- if they still have the will to continue in politics.
Has Indyref 2 been stopped? I doubt it.
The SNP is not the independence movement as the march last week demonstrated.
Polls show that there is currently 48% support for Independence whilst the SNP is on 36.9% of the vote.
Is Davidson is jealous of Arlene Foster’s position and has she muscled in on the debate about who will bend Theresa May’s ear?
Does tRuthless feel she is entitled to run the country because it was her 13 seats for the TRuthless Davidson party that really almost won it for the Tories – not the measly 10 seats in N. Ireland.
I see she has jumped in and ‘told’ ( not discussed or suggested but ‘told’) the PM that she will not tolerate any interference from the DUP on her human rights as a member of the LGBTI family.
Has Kez backed her yet?
Don’t both she and Arlene Foster realise that because of EVEL their power will be restricted and it is the flimsiest of support for T May?
Will Sinn Fein feel threatened and seek to join the south?
This story has a while to run yet.
Mandelson on the radio this a.m. described an alliance with the DUP as “dangerous”.
He thinks it could jeopardise the Peace Process and he says that they extract a high price for their co-operation.
Also, I note that they have associations with Saudi Arabia and of course there is still a big question over where that £450,000 Brexit donation really came from…
Think the 12th July will be quite a noisy one this year!
Because of the entry into the fray of the DUP things have already started to heat up on the first day
The British can try to not report it or try to make light of it but it’s happening and within a real short space of time the Brits will be wishing they’d never gone down this road
In Scotland
There are many many who wont accept this
The people aught to know what they’re letting themselves in for by allowing the Tories to pursue this total folly
The DUP is funded by the UDA who are funded by the Saudis who fund ISIS
Round and round the money goes but where does it come from where’s it’s origin well, thats easy it comes from British arms sales to Saudi
What will the DUP want in exchange for their support and what will they do the minute the Brits try to pull a fast one on them, because they will, it’s in their Nasty British nature to do it, the DUP will drop the Brits like a stone and leave them in a bigger mess than they’re in already
But before then the other half of the Irish divide are making their plans for what the DUP will want the Brits to do to them for their assistance
Meanwhile here in Scotland there’s a massive anti DUP feeling and if things go like they look like they’re going hell mend the Brits for what they’re about to cause
Hopefully it’ll remain at just a massive increase in Independence support and nothing else
This peeps, this is the DUP. In full hate mode.
https://twitter.com/graham4sinead/status/873244809410031620
These are the (in-bred) cousins of the Ruth Davidson party people.
Lazy response Thepnr – explain why Corbyn defied the media yet the echo chamber here resort to scapegoat BBC for utter shambles of SNP campaign
Jamieboy
I don’t disagree with some of your points in your longer post. We do need to retake the initiative. However, Corbyn whilst ploughing on regardless, was hurt by the negative media. That is why he didn’t win. We do have remember that. May, with one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen, still managed to be the largest party.
Bob Mack, you make good points. But the tories have clearly targeted 12 or so rural seats only, farming, fishing, retirement enclaves and then they’ve swamped them with vote tory stuff, giant posters in fields, huge vote tory magazine and local newspaper ads, but only their target areas.
So tories were really only trying to win what they did win. Its a heck of lot easier fighting a snap GE, in only a dozen or so Scottish seats, with everything you have and all that tory donor money, coming in from who knows where. The EC are really easyosy on election dosh.
Its really important to understand the where, how and why tories won 12 because it looks like this all that mattered to them, this time.
Now its back to BBC Scotland, STV, Daily Record, to do the rest and brainwash us all into swallowing all their “tories won over Scotland,” propaganda.
We are not exactly being played for mugs, but the tories have a plan.
We can learn from them.
Breeks, the only way to hit the BBC hard enough would be a campaign of non payment, I’ve been to just about every demo outside of the BBC in Glasgow but we need bigger numbers. If we got even a quarter of the turnout of the last indy March on a regular basis along with the non payment campaign we could do it. We need the numbers and a figurehead. “Tommy”???
@scunner
It was sickening, but defo detected a whine from the fisherman before mic was hastily withdrawn.
The fishermen voted Tory to do Mays bidding and hopefully up her majority, in their hopes of a fast hard Brexit.
How’s that working out for you fishermen? Facts or history of your situation are obviously inconvenient for you, so ram your Tory votes up your fishy anus.
Not only are you on the losing side, you’ve dragged your Scottish market down too.
A lot of Scots are just too stupid.
I live in Willie Rennie,s home village. In the pub tonight, of course after a few drinks, some folk threw at me ” even your leader is backing away from Indyref2″.
The best way, I’ve found, is to laugh at them, hug them, tell them it’s ok, don’t worry, we’ve got it all sorted. We are definitely having another Indy Ref, but when it suits us!
Re;Breeks@10.38
Good comment Breeks. The unionist media steered debate and really pretty much steered the GE campaign. The SNP were at the mercy of the biased, anti SNP propaganda with no real means to counter it all. All in all T.May kept a low profile, for a reason. It was designed to make this election about the SNP, independence (break up of so called britain) and Jeremy Corbyn.
Tory soundbites, repetitive slogans, divide and rule tactics, leave people to argue amongst themselves, job done. Well played, the yoons have plenty of resources at their disposal for their campaigns, plenty. Hardly if any mention of brexit etc,
Considering, the SNP have not lost anything,though sadly a few very excellent MPs, but T.May and her party were the losers. They lost seats, meaning they had no majority to form a government. T.May was not really elected as PM.
The SNP have lots to go on, and I am sure will be eager to get back to their day jobs. It’s been a costly roller coaster lately, thanks to the tories, and the labour party have a heck of a lot to answer for, for not being anything like an effective opposition at WM. The labour lot in Scotland, no words for them, well except for scheming, troughing, lying gits.
Lots and lots to take in from last night.
A tough night and I think like many, I hoped that the 34 seat exit poll would be wrong and unfortunately it wasn’t far off. I spoke to a pal on Wed and went along with the lines of :
50 or more = tremendous, just as good as 2015.
45-49 = very good. ‘Strong and stable’ vote.
40-44 = a good showing.
30-39 = disappointing.
30 or less = poor.
Many reasons we lost some support and no doubt HQ need to an all mighty review but amongst it all, I’d go with – ‘tartan Tories’ returning home in the NE; socialist/Yes vote going for Corbyn’s Labour not SLab ; the previous soft-no-but-like-the SNP supporters being spooked by the thought of Indyref 2 ; and apathy with SNP supporters.
I had been fearing the apathy for a while, and whilst the blame does not lie slowly with the SNP, there has to be some questions raised about the campaign and the way we campaigned. In a way, we turned in to the SLab and taking many of the especially central/west coast seats for granted.
I am gutted that we lost the likes of McCaig, Robertson, Salmond, Eilidh, and many others. I hope the SNP utilise Eck and Angus – we need him running our campaigns again – and I’d LOVE to see Robertson go to Holyrood.
Indyref 2 should take a back seat for now. It’s not going to go away due to the nature of Brexit, but if Nicola comes out in the next week and announces something about willing to let the Tories get on with Brexit etc -and we’ll reserve judgement until the end of the Scots parliament. Let’s not even discuss Indyref2, and we’ll be able to tackle the Tories at local issues.
What many in the MSM elite are forgetting is that whilst it was absolutely a disappointing result, we still are the biggest party and have a bigger total than all the Union parties put together.
Lessons do need to be learned though. We need to be more aggressive when faced with shit from the likes of Murdo and Rooth.
A second referendum will happen. We need to sit tight for now though. A second referendum will happen thanks to the mess the Tories are about to go through in form an alliance with the DUP and with the shambles they’ll make of Brexit. The only concern is of a Corbyn takeover of Scotland – for the next election – knowing our luck as proudButs, we’ll vote for Labour and England will vote Tory.
Get up though and keep on going. A dissapointing night, but still we won and are the largest party by a fair, fair distance.
Now, the SNP focus on Holyrood. We build up our confidence and prove we are a competent and excellent government – like we were in 07-15. I still believe we are, and I know we are working hard ; but I’d love to see some of the defeated candidates from last night in Holyrood – we have some assets in the party who would be a great addition to Edinburgh.
Also folks! Don’t ever get upset about Radio Jockland or BBC NorthBrit nor Roof, The Queens XI fae Purth or whatever loud-mouthed Tory, Swinson Lib or rent-a-gob Baillie has to say about the SNP. Don’t watch it! You’ll feel a lot better. Let the Unionists soak up their ‘victory’.
There will be another election within the next few years, that is a certain thanks to the mathematics of the Westminister minority government, and we’ll be re-energised to win back those Tory gains.
Enjoy your weekend, and remember, the SNP have just won another election.
We are all feeling the pain of last night, but this is politics a quiet year, true, but things could get livelier as we move into Brexit negotiations.
There is no way to secure a better deal than the countries already in the EU
There is no way to secure a deal equal to the 27 EU countries otherwise why have an EU
WTO tarrifs are a poor substitute
Donald Trump will give the UK a deal but it will be a painful one
Other countries will strike deals with the UK but distance will drive shipping costs up (New Zealand, Argentina,Japan)
India said will not deal with the UK unless there is freedom of movement.
EU businesses will be leaving soon
A huge chunk of the UK revenue is financial services,
A huge chunk of the UK revenue will be divied up between France and Germany
Independence will be Scotland’s lifeboat
Keep the faith
Alba Gu brath
Football pundit Derek Rae tweeted that voters in Aberdeen South elected an ignoramus.
Ruth now planning her wedding in NI?
Heard a lovely traditional air this evening. There are many versions on Utube of ” The May morning dew” . Got me back into action again
There are several BBC focused organisations or groups now, not just http://Www.informscotland.com
The new Ofcom reugulation of bias and inaccuracy at the BBC needs to be fully tested.
https://informscotland.com/bbc-complaints-appeal-decision-ofcom/
This must be the next campaign by Groups or dedicated individuals to save Scotlands independence campaign
The new process but be thoroughly tested ,/and if it does not work, exposed
According to Cochrane in the Telegraph, Davidson wants some distance between the Scottish Tories and the UK Party and she wants May to go for the single market not a hard Brexit.
So a bit of independence and closer links with the EU 🙂
Blushes…
The link I posted about the DUP was over dubbed. Fake.
Crawls away in embarrasment…
Ruthie all over Sky news and facebook saying she is going against Theresa May and thinking of setting up a new party. On fb here in England people are thinking she is the new PM. I put them straight as did lots of Scots. They have no idea down here how much Nicola does for the Scots and all the concessions given compared to England. Makes me angry. You are so lucky up there with free prescriptions, bus passes etc. I just wish some of the people up there realised how lucky they are. I will continue to spread the word.
sinky says:
10 June, 2017 at 12:07 am
Football pundit Derek Rae tweeted that voters in Aberdeen South elected an ignoramus.
He’s my MP now. Aberdeen South is extremely tory, and got blitzed by them. New tory is ex Gordons College, politics at Aberdeen. Gordons is the big private school for Aberdeen, and it produced Mike Gove no less. So you can probably guess what this toryboy is all about.
Sillars is merciless. He could at least have the decency to say no one knew May would go for a pointless GE after Sturgeon called for indyref2,
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11145/jim-sillars-heres-what-snp-and-yes-movement-now-need-do-build-indy-case
“Examine the Brexit negotiations and deals in detail, so that we can shape a new independence policy. We should abandon the nonsense of forecasting a hard Brexit, and look instead at the one which emerges.
Has no one ever thought it might be a good deal, because the EU states need that as much as the UK? ”
Brexit is going to be very take it or leave it hard because if its not, all the other EU hard core right wing UKIP style parties will want one too.
@Ann Rayner says:9 June, 2017 at 3:34 pm:
“Mike Cassidy, much earlier, is the only person I have seen so far to see the problem EVEL will cause for a Conservative/DUP coalition.”Well No, Ann, I posted it even before all the results were in.
They cannot very well retain Westminster as the de facto parliament of England and use EVEL to prevent any other UK country interfering in England only matters if the cabinet contains ministers from N.I.
Sillars is an attention whore, and a liar.
The campaign was not all Nicola, he must really hate her, because it shows.
The first rule of persuasion and selling anything is to know your product inside out. Every aspect. When Nicola or others were asked about education or Health for these elections she should have re framed the argument into a UK context rather than just Scotland, because this was a UK election.
Along the lines of “You are asking me to compare our record on education against other areas of the UK? ” .
That would then have given the opportunity to compare the rest of the UK to Scotland rather than just defending the SNP record in Scotland. These things are important.
The SNP need to learn these tricks to control the discussion rather than be controlled by the interviewer
I posted this article mid-April providing early warning of the outcome of the General Election and the story behind my findings. This is the aftershock report.
https://caltonjock.com/2017/06/09/struggling-with-the-snp-2017-general-election-campaign-results-despair-no-more-full-explanation-provided-snp-needs-to-learn-lessons-from-this-performance/
Journey to Yes #15 out now:
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/with_replies
Hand and shrimp re Jeremy Corbyn.was driving along today and heard students ( Uni of Kent I think ) being interviewed. They long ago started a campaign to get the students to not only register to vote but made sure yesterday they turned out to vote ( for Corbyn).
Momentum, the People’s ?? Council ( which I’m sure Lesley Riddoch has spoken at) etc have all been slogging away in the background campaigning for JC , while his own MPs were busy stabbing him in the back and as we know from the Indy ref, the effect of talking to people on the ground is huge.
Jings decent broadband would be a start
The Tories on the other hand ( although I’ve no evidence) I’m sure have long had a strategy for this election.
From donations ( see The Ferret) to something as simple as professional banners and anoraks being worn almost immediately the election was called.
It’s interesting what is out there for instance, how many Councils in England operate energy companies? Councils?
The expansion of ports down south ?
Transport hubs?
Of course for us pesky Scots, we’re supposed to accept that this is as good as it gets , yet for an energy rich country you can’t help wonder what could be but hey with all those Labour/Tory councils in charge who knows what we’ll get next ?
Time for the SNP to start protecting marine species again, Days at SEA down to one a month, tax the industry to high hell in those ports in north east, ach well can only hope, but waiting for the day that Mayhem screws them all and they will be running to the SNP to save them again, I will be posting quite a few screenshots from the gloating of north east skippers and crewmen , and will happily return the gloat, no longer in the industry so not really bothered what happens to the kippers, and I dont mean Ukippers, I mean Kippers, two faced spineless and gutless “proud”scotsmen, I cant even give it capitals
What was it that fantasy writer said: “Scotland in now in the unenviable position of being like a wifey whose partner is a bigoted climate-change denying homophobe”.
Orange is the new Blue.
Rock on, Rowling.
Hun parliament.
PLEASE Nicola , just let the daft bastards start paying for everything. They are NOT blind but they cannot see. Scotland has the best tractors in the whole world , people have died for less. waken up or we’re fucked.
This coming year will throw up many unpleasant surprises. With the Orange Odour now running the UK, implosion and real division will follow very soon.
Scots voted Labour in local elections and got Tory councils. Scots voted Labour on Thursday and got a DUP government. Some day some of those voters must see a pattern.
Whoever was speaking about the reality of politics and the need to capture votes in the schemes – you want to know how to do that? Bribe them.
Corbyn will need the SNP to become the next government and vice versa. If Labour and the SNP can achieve this much whilst undermining one another then imagine what they can achieve if they worked together! Maybe we could finally get rid of the Tories.
Students Sectarianists Pensioners
They all seem desperate to have a British identity so let them have it let them live under the same rules and conditions of the party they were warned against putting into office
Get Scotland back to the dark days of pre SNP if that’s what they think they want, I don’t think they realise how good they’ve got it
One thing those groups do have in common though
They’re deaf dumb and blind
How many times did the FM tell them, vote Labour get Tory
Well their wee online campaign to elect Obi Wan Knobi worked a treat eh
They’ve ended up electing the DUP who are anti everything and everybody
Are you gay, they don’t like you, are you old, you’re a burdon, are you young, you should’nt even have a vote,are you a bigot, only great if you’re their kind of bigot
So well done those groups you just made things worse
The ‘narrative’ is being echoed far and wide – it was the prospect of a second referendum wot done it. The prospect of more pakistanis and poles flooding in bidden by a madwoman was not a factor ladies and gents. Repeat, not a factor.
@ Valerie, Sillars is a bitter, twisted, egotistical, auld, attention-seeking failure. Nothing to offer Scotland but bile. He can bile his f’n heid!
Wullie B,
Well said , my exact sentiments . My old granny used to pray for there safe return in stormy weather. I hope the bottom falls out their industry and May sells them right down tge Swaney river ( north sea – atlantic ocean) _ fuck em.
Hey there Nicola, incase you’re with us here,
Well done pet. You steered us through unexpected stormy waters and have brought us safely back to harbour, mostly intact 🙂
We are heart sore we lost seats but we did not lose those wonderful hard working people.
They’ve just shifted position and I am sure will prove their strengths again and again for Scotland in all that lies ahead for us all = )
Our Road to Independence lies ahead, clear, straight and true.
Wee rest for now.
Then, refreshed, we’re back into the fray more determined then ever before = )
So much down in England about the young vote, why was there no similar effect in Scotland? Less youngsters or less engaged?
@ defo – I posted that video link too. If you’ve seen T2 it has a certain ring of truth about it. I am wondering what the DUP actually were singing up there on the podium. Doesn’t look like GSTQ.
Had a politics/news free day yesterday.
Switched the telly on to see Pat Kane and John McKee on breakfast. Talking about the ‘mooth’.
John McKee (journalist) just said that she’s(ruth)has just won an election!
Switched over. Still trying to figure out if it was only one day?
Some of the young folk in Scotland voted for Corbyn. Not realising they would let the Tories through. ‘They didn’t do enough research’, on their own admission. Aw well next time?
Corbyn/Labour/Unionists voted through or abstained on every Tory austerity measure. They could have defeated the Tories. The false promises. Now more Unionists are going to Westminster to join them. Benn stood up backing the Tories for more bombing in Syria. To Tory cheers.
Some fishermen will get another Home Counties Tory to represent them. The Tory voters in Aberdeenshire will get more education cuts and rural school closures. Rather than the well heeled pay a bit more on Council tax. £16Million of assets. They want to starve children and cut Education.
The Tory/Unionist voters will be complaining when the elderly have less social care. The young have higher uni fees. More is cut from Education/NHS. False Westminster promises. Some people are ill informed or have short memories.
Watch and wait for the next few months. In think there will be another election between October and January 2018
If the Tories do a deal with The DUP a picture springs to mind of an Orange March banging and tootling down Whitehall into Trafalgar Square thru Admiralty Arch and along The Mall to play their friendly ditties in front of the Queen at Buck House with the pavements full of drunken followers and the gutters full of empty Buckie bottles.
Time to revisit the dark money and the DUP manipulation of UK politics. How are the investigations going?
http://archive.is/m8q9k
Links
https://www.snp.org/general_election_explained
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11144/don-t-wobble-independence-figures-respond-ge2017-setback-snp
Brexit Chaos: What Next?
https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-2470
https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2017/06/09/delusional/
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/the-barking-mad-benchmark.html
Lesley Riddoch podcast
http://rqs.libsyn.com/ye-whit-general-election-special
http://newsnet.scot/archive/podcast-first-reactions-theresa-mays-self-inflicted-poll/
Brussels Jubilant at UK Election Result
https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-2484
https://news.gov.scot/news/new-health-and-social-care-standards-1
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/86568/listen-shes-not-leader-we-need
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/may-s-political-career-is-over-her-authority-destroyed-1.3113497
If Jeremy Corbyn is a ‘terrorist sympathiser’, then what will Theresa May be called when she joins with the DUP?
Listen here
https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/873214646995628032
@Capella
Re the tweet you posted, the original can be seen by scrolling down. Seems to be from their conference.
https://twitter.com/MMcIlveenDUP/status/792407417044733952
Apparently, “Ms Davidson telephoned the Prime Minister and demanded assurances that she was not planning to ditch Tory commitments to gay rights in return for DUP votes..”
Oh FFS! Of course she will. She’ll do whatever it takes to cling to the power that will allow her to finish the job of utterly destroying everything in the UK except for the entrenched privileges of the establishment elite and the sources of free money for the already obscenely rich. And one day, Ruthie, you – you personally – might well be told officially that you are a perversion of nature and, possibly, a criminal. Of course you’ll just suck it up, because you got exactly what you wished for, didn’t you?
I can’t help feeling that the SG should temporarily withdraw all the protection they currently offer against Westminster barbarities and give the Scottish unionist electorate exactly what they voted for. But they won’t because, unlike the Tories, the SG won’t punish the majority of its citizens just because a minority of them are too stupid, too self-interested or too sociopathic to care.
Reluctant Nationalist says:
“Whoever was speaking about the reality of politics and the need to capture votes in the schemes – you want to know how to do that? Bribe them.”
What, like what politicians have done everywhere, forever ?
Capella. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37849771
“Arlenes on fire” A reference to the wood pellet scam, I think.
Col says:
9 June, 2017 at 11:48 pm
“Breeks, the only way to hit the BBC hard enough would be a campaign of non payment…”
I don’t oppose non payment, but the BBC has an annual budget of £3.5 billion. Supposing there wasn’t a single person in the length and breadth of Scotland paying the fee, it wouldn’t dent the output of the BBC, nor convince it to be even handed in dealing with Scottish self determination.
Sorry if that sounds like being a wet blanket, but I’m not trying to be. The campaigning against the BBC is tremendous, and it has to be done, but done in the knowledge it is largely futile.
Object and protest yes, but do not invest our hopes in changing the BBC.
But getting our own news and current affairs channel, a means to broadcast news and discussion that is free from all the baggage of BritNat bias and hegemony, … if we can manage that, it will be decisive.
On TV and radio, all of my input comes from England. I don’t even get STV at all. The papers aren’t even worth discussing, and even news online seems forever to be carrying links and advertising for the Express or Guardian. I cannot breathe without drawing in BritNat contaminants.
The dilemma we have is not what the BBC does, it is what we are prevented from doing.
Only online, in blogs and video is it possible to source uncorrupted and uncontaminated news from Scotland about Scotland, but the mass penetration to the whole population is not reaching the people it needs to.
Campaigning for Independence without our own access to communicate with the people is like going off to war but not having an Air Force, or having soldiers who don’t have any rifles. It is a vital, glaring omission which makes victory nearly impossible. It doesn’t matter how wonderful and solid everything else is, it’s a lack of essential capacity that all but guarantees defeat.
We need Scottish broadcasting. I would never advocate violence or armed insurrection, but I’m afraid the SNP has to countenance a more confrontational determination. By that I mean provoke trouble with Westminster.
I said before. Three stage process. Get the Court of Session to present a judicial review affirming Scottish sovereignty lies with the people, and cite that sovereignty when setting up our own broadcasting network. We should not be contained by the fact that broadcasting is reserved. What broadcasting we have is contaminated and unfit for purpose. For speed, and capacity to counter the BBC, we should try to recruit stations from mainland Europe to help us. Explain our predicament and get a European beachhead of broadcasting journalism present with Boots on the ground here in Scotland.
Yes, Westminster will kick and scream, throw tantrums about a reserved matter being undermined, it will threaten to retaliate, to Jam the news and punish Holyrood, but we as Independentists need to realise that this is what Independence and freedom actually involves. The BBC has failed us, it is unfit, therefor reserved broadcasting is dysfunctional and consequentially Scotland has the sovereign right to look after its interests by all means at its disposal. We should choose to fight this battle, not kneel to Westminster’s faux sovereignty and faulty performance.
If Westminster fails in any of its reserved powers, that failure should be seized upon and the power reclaimed by Scotland. If you abuse a power, you lose it.
Broadcasting is cultural news and public affairs and transmission of information. It is NOT licence to broadcast distorting propaganda and outright lies. Westminster is in breach of its duty of care towards Scotland and thus forfeits its “reserved” status of control.
Said it before too… “ah but broadcasting is reserved. There is nothing we can do,”… What meek and risible disposition to suffer from. Let’s start campaigning for Inependence not with hope of winning, but absolute and ruthless determination of winning. If we tolerate this, our children will be next.
@ Defo – goodness, they are a fun bunch! Thx for link.
Listening the Radio Scotland trying to make the Tories the winners of the election. Derek McKay on now pointing out that the SNP won the election with more seats than all the other parties combined. Laura Maxwell doesn’t appear to accept simple arithmetic.
“Ruth Davidson is now a very important figure in Westminster,” says Laura.
@Breeks
We all need to put pressure on our MSP / SNP to get the ball rolling with this.
Sorry breeks, I disagree. While it would hit them in the pocket the real impact would be in publicly embarrassing them and making their position in Scotland untenable. That half of the population doesn’t trust the BBC is and should be untenable. Less than half of the country trust them, that’s a fact, we would only be highlighting this.
@ Nana – that DUP song obviously has as dark an undertone as the dubbed version. What a calamity for politics that this state of affairs has arisen. I am so angry that SLab helped to create a Tory DUP alliance by encouraging Scottish voters to vote Tory. Disgrace.
Now to work through all your other links. Thx.
Hey guys! the latest news on the street is that independence lost the SNP seats. The major plank in party policy is toxic. Well, well who’d a thunk it!
For Sale…one clueless and incompetent party scared of its own shadow.
Room now for an assertive independence party! No bullshit!
No Surrender to Neo-Unionism!
@ defo: ‘What, like what politicians have done everywhere, forever?”
Yes! But fatter envelopes this time.
@Capella
They are not wasting any time bringing on the hatefest
Tory/DUP marches.
https://twitter.com/parcelorogues/status/873174725232603136
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/where-did-theresa-may-s-new-friends-the-dup-come-from-1.3114315
Ms Davidson appears more enraged by the DUP view on human sexuality than the party’s aggressive religious sectarianism. Comfortable with that then Ruth?
Ruth is quite happy with Dups anti Catholic stance. Why because she is going for that knuckle drag vote. She is the oddest Lesbien. Supports a right wing semi fascist party, behaves like a reverse misogynist bully, supports the Orange order….She is a nasty bully who just happens to be guy.
Remember when you hear this in the next few weeks people. When the msm and Yoon parties all say there is now no demand for indy ref 2. It’s not because there isn’t. It’s because these people don’t believe in independence. It’s what they want us to believe I’m order to prevent independence. Rise above it and ignore it. They are trying to sow a seed in a barren field.
Breeks
8.56
Agree.
I have found that there has been a lack of passion and grittiness from the SNP of late and thought the Nicola Sturgeon seemed tired and lacked energy which is understandable. I also think that during the last debate especially she seemed unprepared for the Unionist parties turning the whole thing into a indy referendum rather that a Westminster election.
Rarely do I her or any of her colleagues highlighting Scotland`s wealth, renewables, tourism, whisky, gin, fishing ,forestry, oil and gas, etc ,etc and making direct comparisons with Denmark , Norway, Finland.
Its time to up the game and for the SNP to appear that they actually believe in independence.
Just my opinion.
@Breeks says: 9 June, 2017 at 10:38 pm:
“Don’t over think this guys.
It’s the media which stymies Independence. It really is that simple.
I don’t think the SNP is doing anything particularly wrong. Paradoxically, the hostility of the media is probably keeping the party squeaky clean.”
Spot on, Breeks. Now it may just be my imagination but I’m listening to BBC Jockland, at this very moment. My teeth are gritting at the much increased BBC use of the incorrect terms Britain, British & Europe when they mean The United Kingdom & the EU.
Westminster is not the parliament of Britain, it isn’t the parliament of the United Kingdom it is the de facto parliament of the country of England.
The EU is not Europe as there are large parts of Europe not members of the EU.
This leads me to believe that there is a very big train crash hurtling down the line towards the de facto parliament of the country of England when it attempts to
negotiatebully the EU into agreeing anything favourable to the country of England parliament.Just this instant the BBC ligger just used the crazy, incorrect, term, “British Law”. There simply is no such thing as, “British Law”, except in the context of a collective to describe the laws of Scotland, Ireland, Man, Jersey & Guernsey.
These people in the Westminster Establishment are increasingly deluding themselves while getting increasingly marginalised by the rest of Britain.
Laughably they believe that a, “British”, Government taking, “Britain”, out of, “Europe”, can be successful in negotiating a good deal for Britain while the de facto parliament of England is propping itself up with members of a political party that is barred from voting upon, “England Only”, matters in a coalition that will, of necessity, be required to appoint those barred members to be ministers of the UNTED KINGDOM Parliament but who cannot vote on anything.
Capella says:
10 June, 2017 at 7:41 am
Time to revisit
That’s some scary stuff that!
I see in today’s courier that Ian Murray is claiming that Labour is back, and the Libdems in North East Fife are considering legal advice on the narrow loss.
I wonder if the boot had been on the other foot what would the Libdems have said if the SNP were to take legal advice if they had lost the seat so narrowly?
Big Phil wrote on 10 June, 2017 at 3:02 am:
“PLEASE Nicola , just let the daft bastards start paying for everything. They are NOT blind but they cannot see. Scotland has the best tractors in the whole world , people have died for less. waken up or we’re fucked.”
As the old saying goes, Phil – There’s none so blind as those who will not see.
I couldn’t believe the video link above showing the DUP
Leaders leaping about and openly singing about Hating Catholics?
I knew that they did, just as I know the Tories are slowly selling off the NHS, but I didn’t think them Dumb enough to make a film of it.
It seems that are Anti-Gay, and the don’t hold with a woman’s right to have an abortion.
So, the Tories are tying their colours to this Orange, Bigoted, group of Neanderthals.
Do the 6 million UK Catholics know this, the Gay Community, women’s rights groups?
We all know now why Toxic Ruth wanted to shut down the SNP Bill to stop sectarian singing and enticement at football matches. She wanted the Knuckle Draggers that support her to feel at home.
Just as well the UK Rich own all the media outlets here on the mainland or voters might recognise these people for what they are.
Big Phil@ 3.02
Exactly the point I made yesterday, let the white settler retirees contribute to Scotland. Move up to the borders or Highlands and islands after selling up in the home counties,enjoy the lifestyle the SG provides and yet deride them at ever turn.
Take their eye tests, prescriptions, heating allowance, bus passes, reduced train fares and whatever else they take without hesitation. Means test everything until it hurts, then when the people realise how much they have been shielded from Tory austerity England style ask them what they prefer.
Look to the law and use it to our advantage, set up a Scottish broadcaster and a Scottish national bank as soon as is feasible, and no hanging back now, ever interview, call a spade a spade and ever lie should be highlighted.
I was devastated yesterday, but I’ve got a second wind today.I officially retire tomorrow and need something to fill my time but I think I’ve now got a purpose to follow for the foreseeable few years
@major bloodnok
““Sort yourself out, boring old Wales.”
Thanks Stu, that was the laugh out loud line for me.”
Don’t laugh. What’s been done to us is what’s on the way for you.
And if you think it’s already happened – you have no idea.
Big Jock @ 9.59
Good point well made man
Don’t give the BBC your support. Stop paying their “licence fee”.
I’m off to Hampden today. Kilt on despite them. Tartan army is 80% yes. The others treat Scotland like a game. It’s not and win lose or draw the real fight against English imperial rule and uncle Toms goes on. We have lost great swathes of rural Scotland to the scum, but the heart of working class Scotland beats like a drum. Fuck the farmers who sold us out.
TheWasp says:
10 June, 2017 at 10:33 am
Big Jock @ 9.59
Good point well made man
Except, retirees to Scotland’s retirement enclaves, Royal Deeside, Moray etc, can easily afford everything on that list of Scots gov and UK gov provisions.
That’s the whole point of being a tory. I am alright jack. So I vote tory. I do not want change because change might make cost me some mullah.
Ah good, here comes BBC Scotland news, to tell me how shite Scotland really is, how awful Nicola Sturgeon really is, how London is the centre of civilisation and the withered Scotch weather forecast, viewed from the fictitious BBC weather satellite, somewhere in space, overhead the middle of France. Because that’s not BBC insane, at all.
Effijy wrote on 10 June, 2017 at 10:27 am:
“I couldn’t believe the video link above showing the DUP Leaders leaping about and openly singing about Hating Catholics? I knew that they did, just as I know the Tories are slowly selling off the NHS, but I didn’t think them Dumb enough to make a film of it.”
ffs Effijy! Please tell me you’re joking. If you’re being sincere then that truly is naivety in the extreme. Mind you, knowing what i know about that part of the world perhaps you’re ignorance truly is blissful.
And btw, did you mean the English NHS? C’mon Effijy, that’s a very small but important slip. As you know we are battling that sort of propaganda 24/7, if we can’t get the basics correct then what chance have we got of getting others to listen to and absorb our pro independence messages?
You also wrote:
“So, the Tories are tying their colours to this Orange, Bigoted, group of Neanderthals.”
It was always going to be the case, it’s nothing new, they’ve been supporting each other for many decades if not hundreds of years, both in Westminster, Ireland and beyond.
Aye, “the mother of all parliaments” is not just a base for corruption, mass murder (WMD’) and paedophile networks. It truly is a rancid medieval cesspit operating in the 21st Century.
Wake up Scotland, the world is watching!
Voter fatigue is very misleading in our area of North Ayrshire the turnout was 70% .I was at the count and couldn’t believe some of the areas voting Tory in one of the poorest areas of Scotland .
Let’s not kid ourselves it’s down to pure and simple religious bigotry and nothing else.
I was questioned on West FM as an SNP spokesman amazing what a suit and rosette can do as to my reaction on exit poll.I replied that I thought the poll was wrong and very unlikely more fool me.
He then asked me if it was true what was my reaction.I replied that the BBC had relentlessly pursued a referendum agenda for 8 weeks and devolved issues .Also that I had never seen a Tory or labour activist during the whole campaign as the MSM was fighting there campaign for them so they weren’t required to.Whereas my branch were exhausted chapping doors at least we won.
BTW, Effijy (and others):
Regarding the DUP sing-a-long link.
Did anyone else notice the 3 females on the left of the group suddenly realising what was going on and remembering that the whole affair was being filmed? They made a very sharp exit. At least, that’s how it looked to me. I wonder who they are or more importantly who their families are? They suddenly shot the craw for some reason which is unusual for supporters of that lot.
One last point regarding the dubbed addition of “We Hate Catholics” – I’ll guarantee that the song which was dubbed over was equally repulsive if not worse.
Vote for the Ruth Davidson Tory Party and get Theresa May with the DUP in May’s breast pocket. 🙁
Sickening for any person with an ounce of decency in them.
Bring in the Clowns.
Vote Tory and get….. 🙁
DC
Absolutely right!
And we are sleepwalking into it very rapidly.
To all those speculating about SF taking their seats – it is not going to happen, and nor should it. Its not like SF get elected and then just don’t bother to turn up, they stand for election promising voters they won’t sit in the British parliament. Ergo, when SF win a seat you can conclude that the electors in that constituency don’t want their MP at Westminster.
Bear in mind that there’s no electoral pact between SF and the SDLP, the SDLP ran candidates in every constituency that SF had one, so the nationalist community in NI had the option to vote for the SDLP if they’d wanted Irish nationalism represented at Westminster. The results speak for themselves – the SDLP were wiped out.
defo,
“I knew that, you knew that, and you can be 100% sure NS did too. It’s called ‘Politics’.”
Playing politics with the people can backfire, as we have just seen.
With 56 MPs out of 59, we were in a very strong position.
With 35 out of 59, much less so.
Nicola failed to strike when the iron was hot immediately after the Brexit result.
And people wonder why you want to saw your country off from this whole sorry mess.