There should be another thousand candles in the background.
Steven Duff
10 years ago
That hurt!
Scotspine
10 years ago
They may like to think that’s what happened!
Jimbo
10 years ago
All the caring they pretended to show – and all the promises that they’d make things better. They probably forgot all about it in their rush to get back to the trough.
Aye, it didn’t take the Unionist politicians long to revert to type.
Baheid
10 years ago
They think
Seasick Dave
10 years ago
Excellent.
Possibly the hand isn’t scaly enough.
slackshoe
10 years ago
The candle can be lit again.
bookie from hell
10 years ago
Can we get Elton John up here to sing it
Tabbycat
10 years ago
It might seem the candle has been snuffed out, but there is a fire in our bellies and it’s burning bright! Keep going…
benarmine
10 years ago
My candle’s ok thanks. It dimmed for a bit but it’s picking up, and they’ll never, ever put it out.
David Smith
10 years ago
Well, Stu, what are you going to do about it?
Truth
10 years ago
I’ve got beautiful wee saltire cufflinks I planned to wear on each anniversary of our independence.
They were bought only for that purpose. They’ve never been worn.
They will be one day. (’cause I’ve got more candles)
Ananurhing
10 years ago
Gee thanks Chris.
That’s me off again.
Grendel
10 years ago
1.6 million candles snuffed out.
goulashman
10 years ago
The Establishment with all the ugliness that this term includes cannot avoid the candle that is now burning ever brighter to scorch its arse.
Towzietyke
10 years ago
The candle is burning at both ends!
wee folding bike
10 years ago
Dimmed early on Friday. Burning more fiercely than ever now.
“…for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
We’ve got not 100 but 1.6 million and perhaps more when they find out what they have done.
SNP application form sent off.
Free Scotland
10 years ago
THE SEQUEL:
The flame causes two nasty blisters on his thumb and forefinger; the blisters become infected and turn septic, leaking into his bloodstream and killing him.
Ken500
10 years ago
The Unionists are tying themselves in knots. HaHa Revenge comes sweet.
goulashman
10 years ago
No, Grendel. Keep hope. If the elements that constitute the Yes Campaign continue to work together – in coalition even – the candles will not only remain alight but will burn brighter with powerful effect. They will go out only if YES dissolves and its members slink away and cease to grasp one another’s hand.
donnywho
10 years ago
hell no. Wings has only just begun. We are only, to quote a second world war “hero” this is just the end of the beginning. Stu it is not for me to tell you what to do, but you have a following and page-view rate than many UK nationals would kill for. Go pro adverts newspaper format the whole nine yards. Till then we will fund you. Move north again, let you rats join the travel to a better land.
heedtracker
10 years ago
Those hands look they’ve seen a good days work but it’s really the soft white manicured hands of City Bankers and their BBC shills.
link to bbc.co.uk
Arise Sir Ken of Pacific Quay and worth every penny the saps coughed up.
Kieran
10 years ago
In the words of Alex Salmond, the dream will never die.
Just 1 day after the most retched defeat and heartbreak a lot of us have ever known, and already I’m seeing the 45 rebounding. On sites like this and Bella, and on twitter, people are saying its time to reorganise, time to get back on the horse.
For me, the independence dream is closer than ever. The legacy of the referendum is an army of tuned-in activists who can defend Scotland in this uncertain time. So I say knock on the doors of neighbours with Yes signs. Help them rebound. My only fear is that the defeat has set off a hemorrhaging of the passion and hope. We need to stop the bleeding as soon as because we have a long struggle ahead.
goulashman
10 years ago
wee folding bike – good start! Same here – after 55 years in Labour.
squarego
10 years ago
We’re only just waking up. It’s not over.
donnywho
10 years ago
Don’t hate the media become the media
HandandShrimp
10 years ago
I think we are like those candles that never go out. Snuff us out, turn your back for two seconds and we are aflame again.
Wee Alex
10 years ago
Interesting to read that Nigel Farage has written to all Scottish MPs asking them not to vote on English issues.
I hope he saved 6 stamps as SNP MP’s do not vote on English only matters.
Boris saying the same thing and Milliband is furious. Oh what a tangled weave.
Imagine if this is the first decision after the referendum and before the 2015 election. It would mean 49 Labour MP’s neutered and Labours chances of running Westminster much reduced.
Well, it serves them right. They chose to get into bed with the Tories, they deserve it.
Davy
10 years ago
Its the second day after the betrayal and lets not call it anything else, and already the back peddling from the fucking meaningless VOW has began.
So lets get started with getting rid of the unionist MP’s from Scotland, or should we just give them their right title “imperial masters”. 1.6 million of us should be a really good start to voting out the labour party and the rest of the unionist scum.
Its only a short time to the general election and their will be no time for this referendum to be forgotten, lets use it to our advantage. lets get the SNP, Greens and anyone but the unionists elected.
I’m so sorry to all who’ve lost hope. But all I have to say is to look to Inverclyde. We were expected to get 20% Yes. We were all told we weren’t going to take Inverclyde – we just had to do the best we could, get as many Yes voters as we could for the overall count. We’d have to steel ourselves with the reality that we’d lose the battle, but hope to win the war.
Final results? It was so close only 86 people decided the count. Out of 54572, we got 27,243 – statistically a dead heat, to the point where we needed two recounts. If we canvassed Kilmacolm and Quarriers’ Village (which were not included in our region, it was given to Renfrew – for some reason canvassing was done by Holyrood regions but the polling by Westminste, or maybe the reverse, I still haven’t slept much), I can practically guarantee Yes would’ve taken them too.
Yes Inverclyde tanned No’s hide, bloodied its nose, blackened its eyes, rattled its bones, fought to the absolute finish. They came into this fight expecting to crush us, to sail to a comfortable 80% or 70%. They had the might of Westminster, every single daily newspaper in Scotland (including the Greenock Telegraph despite its protestations of “impartiality”), the entire British media, the wealth of billionaires, a campaign of despicable lies, and the substantial support of the Orange Order on their side. We had about 20 regular campaigners and another 30 grassroots, and a wee shop on Cathcart Street for the last few months. When all was said in done, Inverclyde went from a “2 out of 10” in expectations for a Yes vote, into the 6th best percentage for the whole of Scotland.
My heart goes out to all who’ve lost hope, but ours hasn’t. If it can be done in Inverclyde, it can be done anywhere.
“As long as a hundred of us remain alive…”
There are a hell of a lot more than a hundred of us yet.
bookie from hell
10 years ago
gord brown
live sky 10am
should be interesting
Scotspine
10 years ago
Im with Donnywho Rev
Jimbo
10 years ago
Last week my Labour MP told me “We’re reclaiming the streets”.
I saw all the pics on Twitter last night. Now I know what he meant.
Free Scotland
10 years ago
Oops! @9:35 am
I meant middle finger.
Davy
10 years ago
Friends, I forgot to mention remember to keep an eye out for this years New Year hoers list, you will be able to see muiltiple examples of “30 pieces of Silver” being handed out.
And no I did not misspell hoers.
Robert Louis
10 years ago
Sorry, Chris, much as it is a good cartoon, it is wrong. That is what Westminster and their Scottish Labour poodles thought happened on the 19th.
Fact is, the anger of YES voters, and those who were mislead into voting NO on the promise of more powers, is rising. We now have an entire Scotland wide network capable of campaigning. They know the streets, they know the methods, and they outnumber anything in Scotland from Labour, Tories and Libdems combined.
In order to win, the unionists from Labour lied to the Scottish people, and relied upon people from England to come up and campaign for them. Come the next Westminster election in 2015, those Labour MP troughers should be our target. They will NOT be able to bus up people from Manchester, Leeds, liverpool and Newcastle, to help them, because those people will be dedicated to their own area in England. So, together, we really do have a chance to unseat most, if not all the Lying filthy Labour MP troughers in Scotland. That is one hell of a goal. It can be done.
Most importantly, during the campaign we all learned how to talk to our fellow Scots one on one, so let’s not stop. Let’s carry on with that. Let’s talk to our friends workmates about how lying Labour have already broken their promises of more powers. Do not stop the conversation.
Join a pro independence political party if you are not in one, because there is an element of real politik about the UK general election. Much as I want new parties and campaign groups to participate, the reality is that there is ONE party, if elected in large numbers to Westminster, that will once again scare the stuffing out of London, and that is the SNP. For the Scottish elections, it is a different matter, and I would like to see co-ordination between the Greens, SSP, SNP and others, to work to ensure a pro independence ‘rainbow’ majority again at Holyrood, so we can have another referendum ASAP.
I like many others have zero intention of being nice to Westminster, and waiting ten years for the next referendum, `I want one in their face, every single year.
Let’s stop thinking this is over, this is just the beginning.
Bill Dale
10 years ago
Have just composed a solo soprano saxophone piece entitled “One and a half million candles” (I know, I know, but 1.6 million isn’t so memorable). I will post it on Soundcloud when I record it. It starts in a minor key and moves to major.
Keep the flame burning.
Swami Backverandah
10 years ago
Hiyas
I know I’m probably posting this comment on the wrong post, as it’s probably more applicable to your editor’s comments, but if I could make a suggestion:
Is it possible that someone could put up a clear demographic of the vote results. I don’t mean the regions, but things like how did the new 16/17’s vote; the over 65’s, men; women; etc.
This would help enormously as I blog on a number of other sites, but it’s impossible to get clear info in one place and especially difficult in MSM.
I am also an newly ex, long-term guardian commenter.
Thanks so much to all the posters here for their clear info.
SBV x
heedtracker
10 years ago
It’s not about losing hope anyway. NO is the settled will of people of Scotland for at least another 30 years. Has Scotland or being a Scot died this week? No. Have we the Scots become a world wide joke? Maybe.
Fact is only one man can bring change now to Scotland and he’s goes by the name of Nigel Farage. Kneel before your masters Scotland:D
At the very least it’s going to weird watching all those rich EU subsidised proud Scot but farmers that ploughed NO into their road side fields, desperately trying to cling on to their giant EU handouts as UKIP and teamGB leave Europe.
Rule Britannia or is it Zeig Heil now. Must check smiley face of UK fascism link to theguardian.com
goulashman
10 years ago
Robert Louis – thanks for this. A way ahead. I will join and support the SNP for a start. Let’s get a full complement of SNP MPs into the Westminster parliament. Labour especially has shown its true present nature and deserves to die in Scotland – Labour to which I have devoted 55 yeas …..
Black Douglas
10 years ago
This ain’t over it’s only the end of the beginning.
The South Ayrshire count was also a bit of a triumph because of the outcome. Before the count, and based on 2011 election figures, it would have been down near the bottom of the 32 areas. We managed to swing enough voters to get us up to mid-table in terms of overall performance.
What we ALL did counted!
So, (all of us) don’t sit greetin’ intae yer hankies, we have achieved a magnificent thing. Don’t ever forget that.
The seeds are sown, the Westminster “Vow” will crumble, there will be a significant proportion of NO voters who will be alarmed that their faith has been dashed (again!) and there is the possibility that we can rouse enough support for further positive referendum action in the next couple of years.
We need to keep drip feeding the messages about our REAL wealth, and how we are going to be ripped off even more now that the 55% have endorsed the existing state.
Flower of Scotland
10 years ago
I’m bloody well not putting out MY candle ! It’s just been relit!! The fight goes on!
donnywho
10 years ago
go pro we have to have a voice in the mainstream. Scotsman is going cheep, crowd-fund, issue shares, borrow money from our wealthy supporters, the talent is there the market is there and the will is there. Lets take them on in their own back yard. Don’t hate the media become the media
Roger
10 years ago
Some words for the 45. Resist temptation, whether it’s the temptation to sink into the demoralising despair of the private realm, with its television, football and drugs (legal and illegal), or the temptation to surrender to outraged indignation and seek refuge in the fantasy of armed struggle. Temptation leads to depoliticisation. Resist it.
Glasgow, Labour’s heatland in Scotland, voted Yes, despite Labour. Nu Labour has no function in politics any more, no reason to exist, it represents nobody anymore. There is no point in ‘voting Labour to keep the Tories out’. Nu Labour ARE Tories, just a different flavour of Toryism. They are but a resurgence of liberal imperialism – a ghoulish relic from the nineteenth century. Next year in the general election, Glasgow can put a stake in its heart and put the monster down.
Stay open to people. Remember that one in three Shetlanders voted Yes. Remember Rangers Fans for Independence and don’t write off all Rangers supporters as loyalists. Remember those who voted Yes in the Western Isles despite the Wee Free. Minds can be changed so long as they remain open; demonising people will just close their minds.
Let the BNP, the Loyalists, the Orangemen and the rest of them riot in George Square, but stay away from it. Let them discredit themselves. Remember that most No voters are timid souls, George Square will frighten and alienate them.
Watch English nationalism grow. They want an English parliament. Let them have it. Nothing is more certain to destroy the union. Be wary of these offers of more power to the Scottish Parliament. Some of them are poisoned chalices. Above all, be wary of ‘federalism’. It means a written constitution and a written constitution would make a future referendum on Independence impossible. Written constitutions are but straightjackets on democracy.
The future is unwritten.
Hail Alba – Síocháin agus saoirse
Robyn - Quine fae Torry
10 years ago
I am in a much more upbeat and determined mood today. 1.6 million of us cannot be ignored. Also very heartened by how the 16-17 year olds voted. Our future doesn’t look so bad.
PS Are there breakdowns of how each area in the council areas voted? Where is this to be found if available? Ta.
saporian
10 years ago
Posted this on the previous thread but I think it needs repeated because we need to understand how the NO side won the vote.
OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.
James Sneddon
10 years ago
I assume that’s the candle of all the fearties that voted NO you are illustrating because this 45’s candle is burning brighter. As Charles Parnell said “No man has the right to fix a boundary to the march of a nation. No man can say ‘thus far shalt thou go, and no further’. We have never sought to set the ne plus ultra of our nationhood, nor shall we ever”
Says it all for me.
Swami Backverandah
10 years ago
Just been back to read the comments, and noticed HandandShrimp here?
Are you the same H&S from Graun comments?
No need to disclose if you’d rather not.
I’m goto – ex commenter.
That was a good suggestion up thread that you ‘become the media’. This site reminds me a bit of Private Eye – hope I’m not saying the wrong thing there, but you know what I mean.
In fact, you are the media. This site is being referenced to disillusioned MSM comment vets.
Best of luck to you
heedtracker
10 years ago
@ Swami Backverandah, check out Professor john Curtice. He’s the only vote analyst or psephologist n the world according to BetterTogetherBBC and to answer your question, the majority of this age group voted YES and the majority of their parents and grand parents voted No. So make of that what you will. Brings a bit of a lump to my throat oddly enough.
PS, if we become the media we must be outward looking and a UK National, those buggers need our help as much as we do. It will also help to get the English on side and stoke the fires of resistance within the whole UK, with that they will have resistance to deal with on two fronts.
goulashman
10 years ago
saporian – my sentiments exactly – as a life-long Labour supporter – I am angry and disgusted beyond words. Labour deserves an ignominious and sudden death.
donnywho
10 years ago
Start now, if you build it we will come, nemo me impune laccasit
David Smith
10 years ago
I intend to carry on the fight. Now I am free of professional constraints on political activity I will devote myself to the cause.
I have already said this elsewhere but those who voted no did so to a large degree believing more powers would be granted and when they see the extent to which they have been betrayed their anger will be greater than ours. The British will find three million fiercely burning candles a lot harder to snuff out. And three million Yes votes much harder to fiddle!
Rod Robertson
10 years ago
Swami Backverandah Lord Ashcroft produced a poll on demographics of Indy Vote
pic.twitter.com/H1qsAxdf8M that will give you it all
Croompenstein
10 years ago
Woke up to that email from Millibland and have just about calmed down to write a wee message for Scottish Labour.
We are coming for you, we will not rest we will hold you to account for putting your party’s interests before the people of Scotland’s interest. We will campaign tirelessly to remove the cancer of Labour from Scottish politics from the top down. Every councillor, every MSP, every MP we are legion
Swami Backverandah
10 years ago
@ Davy
“New Year’s hoers”
As a noob, I’m not up with the jargon yet, and I thought you meant New Year’s hoovers 😉
saporian
10 years ago
Posted this on the previous thread but I think it needs repeated so that we can understand why we lost the vote.
OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.
Jim Thomson
10 years ago
@Robyn – Quine fae Torry 10:05am
Unfortunately the way the ballots were counted means that detail isn’t available.
The boxes were delivered to the count and each one opened so that the number of ballot papers could be counted to verify the tally against the register at each polling place.
Those ballots were then aggregated into random boxes for the final count. That means it is pretty much impossible to see how each ballot subdivision voted.
When standing in front of the teller who is counting the contents of each of the original boxes (which have the polling station name on them), it was possible to get a reasonable idea of the split between yes & no, but it was extremely difficult to exactly count the votes because not all of them were clearly visible and there were three tellers per box in the South
Ayrshire count.
I was lucky enough to stumble on one of the eight boxes from our local station as it was being emptied but, never having done anything like this before, I had a struggle developing a mental method of counting. Next time (and there will be!) a clipboard!
30 seconds of Gordon Liar Brown pacing up and down was enough for me, I had to turn the TV off.
davidb
10 years ago
Hell NO!
With tears in my eyes I joined the SNP formally this morning.
There is no need to give up hope. We polled 45%. We did win the argument amongst those who were able to listen. We faught a good fight.
It took other peoples years to win freedom. Nelson Mandella was in jail for 26 years. This is just a setback on our own road to freedom. The best time would have been 30 years ago. A second best time would have been thursday last. But the next time will be the last time, because next time we will win. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we will be free. Sooner rather than later.
45%
heedtracker
10 years ago
Listening to BBC R4’s repulsive political obituary of Alex Salmond yesterday was another very creepy teamGB experience. But this is what it’s all about.
I received an email last night from Ed addressing me by name and congratulating us on voting to stay together. He invited me to join the Labour Party in working for a more socially just society.
I declined
bookie from hell
10 years ago
Lock in measles 1& 2
walofs
donnywho
10 years ago
We have camera men, citizen journalists, international commentators, Video lifestyle writers, radio shows, tv satire, artists, creatives, bloggers, twitter feeds, we own the internet all we need is the will and coordination!
With the internet you don’t even need an office. I am sure that you have the talent to coordinate this as you have done a wee bit of publishing LOL already. Most would contribute for free, at least for a while, it is so doable. A British (wand mass) national paper holding Westminster to account, now wouldn’t investigative journalism come as a shock to these toadies. Do it, i am sure we are all behind you, one step back and a huge leap forward for us all!
Krackerman
10 years ago
Does anyone have a photo of the ballot paper? I’m keen to know if there was any identifying serial number on them – I can’t remember if there was and I’ve seen a few threads from people who claim there were no official marks on the paper at all…
Anyone know for sure?
Swami Backverandah
10 years ago
Thanks for all the stats refs upthread.
Fortified by your comments here, I’m off to have a look round the meeja
Morning one and all, seems as if we are all feeling a bit brighter and ready to saddle up once more.
I was just saying to my husband this morning ( now that I had calmed down a bit), that these stupit auld buggers who voted to protect their pensions, or liebour will get back at wastemonster and protect our health service, have just voted away the one chance they had to protect all that. Just how thick are some folk?
John (hubby) was out swimming last night with two mates, who both voted naw. One he knew is just greedy, pensions shares etc.But mind you he’s the very yin aye moanin about his health. The ither yin, he’s greedy as well mind, but his main reason for voting naw wis because liebour are gonnae get in at wastemonster next year. When John asked them, “how will you get on then when it’s Boris and Nigel” he said the look of shear horror on their faces was a picture to be hold.
Aye be careful what you wish for right enough. Whit wis George Square a’ aboot last night, if that’s with being better together is aboot, well nae thanks.
davidb
10 years ago
Aye, New Year. Wouldn’t it be magnificent if all the party goers booed a certain presenter on the Ministry Of Truth Hogmanay show?
Civil disobedience.
Stunts.
Our young people did amazing things before Thursday. Lets keep up the happy campaign.
We have demography on our side. We are going to win this next time.
45%
Croompenstein
10 years ago
These words inspire me from MLK the say before he was killed..
Like anybody, I would like to live – a long life; longevity has its place. But I’m not concerned about that now. I just want to do God’s will. And He’s allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I’ve looked over. And I’ve seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land. So I’m happy, tonight. I’m not worried about anything. I’m not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
We have looked over and seen the promised land and we will not lie down and die
heedtracker
10 years ago
Milliband demands a Convention for a devo conversation in a years time and that’s it. Tories say no, let’s get the Scots Labour MP’s out of English affairs for good and starting now for end of January. Farage says just bar Scots MP’s from all English only sessions in the House of Commons. Graun”s Toynbee wants all and any Scottish constituency MP’s banned from holding any UK high office. Cameron and co think they can use Scotland to take out Labour in Westminster and keep control of Scotland.
All we can do now is watch, because that’s what the people of Scotland voted for.
Robert Louis
10 years ago
Seems like the SNP already have 3,000 new members, if I have read things correctly.
The next target, as I stated above, has to be to get an SNP army into Westminster in 2015, even if we don’t all necessarily agree with all the SNP does – it is a means to an end. We need to use our combined campaigning expertise which we now have, to unseat every single Labour MP in Scotland. Only the SNP can do this as a party, of all the other Scottish parties who are pro indy.
In England, only a large number of SNP MP’s sent to westminster will scare them, and get the attention of the London media.
Before anybody thinks that is unfair, I also want a coalition of pro indy parties (SSP, Greens (especially), SNP and others) to work hard for the Scottish elections in 2016, so we once again have a pro independence majority in Holyrood.
We as pro indy campaigners should think strategically, and support that and those who will have the most impact in either London or Holyrood. So, we lend our support to the SNP for Westminster, then for Holyrood, we lend our support to ALL the pro indy parties, and choose who is most likely to succeed in particular seats.
We can do this. We need to think smart, and not let any tribal or party matters get in the way. Let’s use whichever party candidate will unseat Labour, in whichever way. This is what we should do.
Then with strong SNP representation at Westminster, and a ‘rainbow’ pro indy coalition at Holyrood, we get another referendum and another and another. Let us take this to Westmidden.
Now that Westminster has already broken its ‘solemn vow’, then it is perfectly legitimate for us to seek another referendum. All bets are off.
Let’s make the thing they fear most happen – A NEVERENDUM. We will win. Make no mistake, we will win.
🙂 🙂
Alistair
10 years ago
It felt more like a revolution than a movement. And a revolution keeps coming round.
Conan_the_Librarian
10 years ago
I’ve got a box of matches…
Jim Thomson
10 years ago
@Krackerman 10:22am
All papers were bar-coded with serial numbers. As you collected your ballot paper at the polling station (applies to postal as well) your ballot paper number is entered into a register and your name scored off the main list of registered voters. Those people with postal votes had a letter “p” alongside their name on that register (to stop them voting twice).
As far as I can gather, all associated paperwork is held for a year before being destroyed.
Wee Alex
10 years ago
I’ve forced myself to listen to Broonie. What he’s proposing is a mile away from Johan Lamonts offering.
A decent enough speech but he lost it for me when he starting talking about social justice, has he not read that Milliband is going to accept Osbournes austerity package.
Labours record on social justice is appalling, rich get richer, poor get pooer.
Chris Cairns
10 years ago
My apologies to anyone trying to cheer themselves up, but that’s certainly how I felt yesterday. As some have said, however, candles can always be re-lit. Stay strong folks 🙂
Gallowglass
10 years ago
Older people tend to be more socially excluded, I see my gran as does the rest of the family sadly maybe not as often as we should and I’m sure there are plenty out there that don’t have a great deal of people in their life, they are also more likely to not technologically minded therefore have less access to the online materials that we and others have.
We cannot devour our elderly people because they came, almost, from a different time and place. As many are shouting out, there are still 45’s amongst them.
We can, with some positivity, point out that we have the generations below them believing in independence.
What people should be attacking is our Unionist media in Scotland, or more positively countering it with our own conventional equivalent.
This has to be the task of the 1.6m.
I would like it to be the task of this website and others amongst the movement, irrespective of personal differences, this is why we lost.
caz-m
10 years ago
At the UK General election next year, we must not just target Labour MPs like Douglas Alexander and Jim Murphy. We must also go after Lib/Dems like Danny Alexander.
I have a feeling that we could be looking at another Referendum sooner than a lot a people think.
donnywho
10 years ago
keep building, keep fighting and light a candle, no damn it light lots
Cassandra Lee
10 years ago
Good cartoon, but so not true. Robin MacAlpine posted the most inspiring call to action I have ever read on Bella last night. Hope has not been snuffed out, merely temporarily dimmed.
The candle may have been put out for now, but we have the matches required to re-light it. The only question is, will we place it in a shelf too high for the Unionist thugs and “I’m all right Jacks” who sold out everyone’s future to snuff it out again?
I truly believe we can, and MUST keep the momentum going, not be disheartened by the false promises we all saw coming being ripped up, and make sure in 2015 we send Westminster a message by giving them MPs that won’t shut up and accept the cuts they want to impose, and instead actually stand up for Scotland.
Revenge is a dish best served in Labour Party seats.
bookie from hell
10 years ago
is Gord PM?
Bill McLean
10 years ago
Alistair Darling, but mostly Gordon Brown, have demeaned decency to a degree that should never be forgotten or forgiven. That a towering politician like Alex should be brought low by such scum is truly frightening. I’m 70 but will stick with the fight.
donnywho
10 years ago
We bust start building the apparatus that defeated us compete on their strengths take down the media at its core
Glad to see you back, your right they almost snuffed out the flame but they forgot to squeeze it tight enough. We’re back flickering & a bit unsteadily but we want to glow brightly again with your help
Thanks for being there you always shone a light
Cathy
donnywho
10 years ago
sorry bust = must
Robyn - Quine fae Torry
10 years ago
@Jim Thompson – Thanks for the explanation.
john king
10 years ago
I put up a video (this one in fact) link to youtube.com
to female a work collegue on facebook
The response I got made my blood run cold,
“The first time I have ever agreed with Katy Hopkins john”
Scottish born and bred!
Im closing my facebook account, I cant face any more cringeworthy people talking shite at me!
Ken500
10 years ago
‘We are legend’
Get those WBB circulating.
Every cloud has a silver lining. The trams are great. Holyrood was buzzing.
I want us all to be careful. I want and like the idea of a new party, but we must not dilute the vote so that we can truly target these lying scum MPs. It has to have some so-ordination with the SNP and other YES political parties.
i would dearly love to wipe the Slabour party of the face of Scotland as a priority.
bookie from hell
10 years ago
Gord is very worried about the1.6 million who voted YES
john king
10 years ago
We’ve all been there Chris, you of all people have NOTHING to apologise for.
Ananurhing
10 years ago
This crap from Broon is meaningless self indulgent pap. He has no power.
He’s turning this into a vehicle for his comeback.
Bugger (the Panda)
10 years ago
davidb says:
You mean, give her the Bird?
alexicon
10 years ago
@saporian. Exactly how I feel and I will continue to highlight this at every turn.
I wish someone would draw a satirical cartoon with A prominent labour person flanked by a tory and an orange order member. Of course with arms around their shoulders.
Now that would be worth sharing.
The YES campaign should continue until the end, this is not the end it is only the beginning.
YES already has in place a network of volunteers all over Scotland and hopefully over the short coming years it could build up a membership and funds to fight the great fight for our democratic right.
Personally I would like to see YES hubs all over Scotland where like minded people could meet and discuss future tactics These hubs could be café, or even pubs where people would be more than welcome to come and enjoy, not anything too much political, and be informed of what is going on, thus attracting new recruits.
Leave YES as it is now with all the cross party, businesses and the youth in place.
We can use this as our spring board.
Remember folks don’t let them put out your candle, keep wearing your YES badge with pride and don’t them simply put it behind them.
donnywho
10 years ago
Wings you are the light that shines in dark places, become a beacon of truth for all the disenfranchised, lets break the hold of the NeoCons and lobbyist trouffers in the Uk.
Bugger (the Panda)
10 years ago
Ever seen these trick candles which cannot be out out?
They just burst into life again, by magic.
caz-m
10 years ago
We seem to be a bit unsure of what to call the future campaign. “45” doesn’t do it for a lot of us, so until we can agree on a word or slogan, I will be putting the “YES” stickers back on the car and the “YES badges back on the jackets.
We were not defeated, we were conned, AGAIN.
I was in Glasgow City Centre last night, and believe me, the youth of Scotland have finally woken up.
They are up for the fight, because they realise that they were cheated out of their Independence by a bigoted minority and a bias media.
john king
10 years ago
Ananurhing
Over my dead body, A previous poster said we need to mobilise the MASSIVE groundswell of support out in support of SNP and independence supporting parties candidates at the next Holyrood Elections and steamroller Labour out of that place once and for all.
We already have a head start with Labour popularity in freefall,
LETS GET RID!
Christ ; surely Datline Scotland (or somebody)could do vid – sketch about this.
Brown, Darling & Cameron somewhere gloating Salmonds demise and drinking a toast – putting out the candle of ‘Scottish hope’ for it only to relight again and again.
Burny fingers and all that …
Come on what a laugh for the YES folks !!!!
JimnArlene
10 years ago
They will never snuff out the candle, enough of the navel gazing. The fight continues….
Kirriereoch
10 years ago
A friend of mine sent me this in response to Mr Cameron´s thoughts of more “powers”:
The Scots’ once had a referendum,
Dave panicked and said “in addendum,
More powers I vow”,
The Scots all said “wow!”
But then Dave f*cked them over – Hell mend ‘em!
Has THE VOW timetable been published today yet? Me really looking forward to it as I must have missed it yesterday and Gordon Brown has back in business and he never ever tells blatant lies, ever. Maybe THE VOW timetable is published but its only available for kindle etc.
THE VOW! Lying bastards.
Macnakamura
10 years ago
We need to find a way of forging an electoral pact.
This is never easy and I am not coming up with concrete proposals.
The ‘ minor ‘ parties will be asked to keep quiet about policies unique to them and the major party will have to embrace compromise, too.
The general election should have YES candidates supported by all of those parties which worked for the campaign.
Holyrood elections need not do likewise, perhaps.
The process for achieving this?
I am just trying to get myself out of the despondency that has beset me for the last couple of days.
Ken500
10 years ago
Gordon Brown gets more like the joker every minute. He thinks he has got rid of Alex Salmond. He hasn’t.
what people must also realize WM now have a mandate to do as they will, practically unopposed.
fred blogger
10 years ago
what people must also realize WM now have a mandate to do as they will, practically unopposed.
Ninja Penguin
10 years ago
You need to be careful if you snuff out a candle that way. You can get your fingers burned.
Macnakamura
10 years ago
There are fewer NO voters today than there yesterday.
There will be fewer NO voter tomorrow than there are today.
And so, it will go on ……..
John Hamill
10 years ago
With Independence some of these Labour MPs might have been in a job until 2016 but I reckon some will be gone in 9 months. Three of the four areas which declared for Yes are currently run by Labour, including its long-standing strongholds of Glasgow and North Lanarkshire, where Mr Miliband rounded off his Referendum campaigning and where Gordon Brown kicked off his. West Dunbartonshire, another core Labour area, also voted for independence.
Constituencies run by leading Labour lights including Ms Lamont herself, MPs Margaret Curran, Tom Harris, Willie Bain, Frank Roy, Ian Davidson, Anas Sarwar, Gregg McClymont and Tom Clarke, as well as MSPs Jackie Baillie, Paul Martin, Patricia Ferguson and Michael McMahon were amongst those voting Yes.
john king
10 years ago
If we can put support on the streets for the Scottish parliament and deliver a resounding victory for the SNP Greens and socialists we can declare UDI what can they do about it?
we’ll have our mandate.
Croompenstein
eh,
I AM ALEX SALMOND!
heedtracker
10 years ago
link to glawest.org Has anyone been bayonted by Chairchoob yet? Chairchoob was on BBC R4 news last night and he sounded a bit odd really. He was trying to explain why Scottish wastemonster MP’s not being able to vote on English affairs may not be a good thing, for his career. As per, questions like “what is an English affair and what is a Scottish affair” was not raised but propagandists tend not to ask questions that may interrupt their propaganda.
Trident 2 will be an English affair because the Englis do want Trident nukes but they dont want them anywhere nice or English. So how will Westminster deal with that, a Wimbledon umpire maybe, the Royals are keen to keep out of politics by reigning over us so future King Charles III would be a great decider.
So “we the English vote AYE for high speed railways all over England and we the English vote AYE for not Scots oil to pay for it”
Its what better together project fear fought so hard for anyway.
john king
10 years ago
@Kirrieoch
superb, love it.
Croompenstein
10 years ago
johnking – a wee I am Spartacus play on Ken500’s post 🙂
Roughian
10 years ago
I am Alex Salmond!!!
Graeme Doig
10 years ago
They’ll burn themselves badly trying to snuff us out !
Liz
10 years ago
Someone from Quebec posted on twitter during the count asking why it took so long. She said they had a result in two hours, because the votes are counted at the polling stations. Couldn’t understand why we had to send them to counting halls. wonder if that’s deliberate so we can’t find out exact demographics?
Thanks for still being here Stu. I haven’t commented before, but have read all your posts since I found your site. You’ve certainly made me much more aware of reading between the lines and checking ‘what is said’ with ‘what is reported’.
The big candle may have gone out, but there are 1.6 mil small ones to take it’s place, and they burn brighter!
Elizabeth
10 years ago
Last Saturday I was so full of hope. Chris’s cartoon says it all. So sad.
But look, Peter Murrell just tweeted this so we aren’t the only ones who feel the need to DO something.
@PeterMurrell: 3,000 new @theSNP members! A wonderful community based Yes campaign now converting into political action. Join them: link to t.co
Wee Wull
10 years ago
I am over 65 – well over – and I voted YES. Not all of us were fooled.
It has occurred to me that how can Flower of Scotland be now sung at rugby internationals with a straight face by all those spectators who voted NO?
GrahamB
10 years ago
Anyone know when today’s Orange Walk in Glasgow is meant to be?
Hope it is round about now as it is hosing down and has been for the past 10 minutes. Here’s hoping …
Elizabeth
10 years ago
I read on twitter that there are 6 Orange Order marches in Glasgow today!
Nana Smith
10 years ago
@GrahamB
There are 6 marches of the OO and similar assorted scum planned.
Donald
10 years ago
“Come the next Westminster election in 2015, those Labour MP troughers should be our target.”
The time for action is NOW not next year, the NO Campaign openly deceived the Scottish public over their “missing motion”. I cannot believe that thousands protested at the BBC over Nick Robinson yet are happy to let the NO Camp get away with lies. We need protests and rallies on the streets TODAY.
comment awaiting moderation – that’s probably because of the many URLs in it 🙂
Basically, it’s links to the 2010 general election results covering a few labour seats in Scotland in response to @James Caithness at 10:41am. Took me a wee while to compile so hope Stu manages to release it soon.
bookie from hell
10 years ago
Iain Mcwhiter
Westminster is now so obsessed with answering the English Question, they’ve forgotten they haven’t answered the Scottish one yet.
FreeThinkingWheeler
10 years ago
We need parties which identifiably occupy the narrow British political Spectrum from left to right, and can stand together with a united front on the question of independence. exactly like the UK parties did so successfully with the three stooges. The Real Scottish Liberals, The Real Scottish Labour, The Real Scottish Tories even. The SNP is supposed to do that, but only the enlightened understand this, make it simpler, create the three parties above and always present a united front on our one burning desire. The PTB and MSM enjoyed the easy fourth force target and demonising Alex and the SNP. The SNP could continue as umbrella for all enlightened others. We must be SMARTER!
Liz
10 years ago
On a separate topic – I see Nick Farage and UKIP have set their eyes on Scotland now
The cartoon is accurate. Stuart Campbell’s opinion that there will not be another chance for an indyref in our lifetimes, echoes the feeling of many of us.
For the first time ever, a country committed national suicide in front of a live worldwide audience.
However, when one considers the hardships and deprivations coming Scotland’s way, the passing of that generational cohort who voted 75% NO, and the resentment that is bound to accrue in the wake of the broken promises of constitutional reform, there is grounds for hope.
It is certain that in their vengeful way, the establishment are resolved that having enticed the Scottish dog back into its kennel, they are going to beat it.
That will only serve to further alienate Scots, and coupled with the other factors enumerated above, could increase pressure for a second referendum to an irresistible level.
We could easily see pro-indy opinion poll numbers in excess of those in Catalonia. It all depends on just how cosmically dumb Westminster is prepared to be. I have enormous confidence in their infinite capacity for stupidity.
Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.
Jim Thomson
10 years ago
Now is when we have to start spotting Westminster positioning itself for our independence.
Keep an eye open for an increase in MoD orders for smaller vessels going to southern yards so that they can begin building their expertise.
Keep an eye open for anything that suggests they are creating the extremely large berths needed for both the new carriers.
Keep an eye open for additional works in any area away from the SE of England that suggests a new home for Trident replacement.
And I’m sure there are a few other litmus tests we can develop.
If any of the above does start to happen, it’s a sign that they KNOW we are serious now.
Capella
10 years ago
@Swami Backverandah
Zerohedge has Lord Ashcroft’s data on voter breakdown. link to zerohedge.com
Calgacus
10 years ago
Postal vote 70 no 30 yes. My. Arse. Rigged.
Flower of Scotland
10 years ago
I’ve voted SNP since I was 18 , that’s 50 years ago! SNP were the only Independence Party and amazing that they got control of Holyrood! Imagine another Independence Party! The Common Weal. There is a great uplifting article on Bella by Robin Mcalpine! We can still do this! Let’s kick the RED TORIES ( labour ) out of Scotland and fill Holyrood with Independence Parties! I recommend reading the article by Robin.
A lot of CIF praying for SNP collapse at Holyrood and Labour retake their rightful place as rulers of the Scotland region. Then it’s UKOK out of the EU.
fred blogger
10 years ago
i think that somethings can never be said enough.
don’t blame the media become the media.
the fight as ever is for a truly democratic system.
i also read somewhere that it was the UN who stepped in to insist that the UK gov stops it’s delaying and ensures, scotland has a devolved parliament, can any one confirm this?
‘All the forces of the world are not as powerful as an idea whose time has come’
– Victor Hugo
Kirsty
10 years ago
Totally agree with those saying we should try and unseat Labour and send as many SNP MPs to Westminster as we can but is it now going to be SNP policy not to have another referendum ‘for a generation’ or will they still have it on the agenda as long as there’s enough support for it? Are there any SNP members on here who might know? I’ll vote for them anyway just to get rid of Labour but I just wondered what their position on indy was going to be now.
schrodingers cat
10 years ago
Mariaskid says:
20 September, 2014 at 10:19 am
I received an email last night from Ed addressing me by name and congratulating us on voting to stay together. He invited me to join the Labour Party in working for a more socially just society.
I declined
i got the same email, i wonder where they got my address
HandandShrimp
10 years ago
As the promises are broken a fair number of the 55 will increasingly look to their failed politicians and say “throw us a fricking bone here”.
They are the ones that have to deliver promises, they are the ones that set a timetable, they are the ones that said the NHS is safe. They have no hiding place.
The Morgatron
10 years ago
Yesterday pain and hurt, today anger. Let them burn their fingers on the flame of liberty that they cant extinguish. Traitors to us all.
Albert Herring
10 years ago
Forget about referendums. We need to use elections.
I would like to see Yes Scotland re-brand itself as “Scottish Independence” and fight each seat in future elections with a single agreed candidate, drawn from the member parties, and standing where each party is strong.
For example, Patrick Harvie could stand as “Scottish Independence” in Glasgow’s West End, while Colin Fox stands as “Scottish Independence” in Pollok. SNP candidates would stand as “Scottish Independence” in the SNP heartlands. There would be nothing to stop the individual parties having their own manifestos, as long as they stood on the fundamental principle of Scottish independence.
“Scottish Independence” would have a non-politician leader (I would nominate Lesley Riddoch) which would confuse the media no end 😉
Winning any Westminster or Scottish election to be taken as a mandate for a declaration of independence, as the electorate would literally have voted for Scottish independence.
The rUK would be forced to the negotiating table by this democratic mandate, so we can avoid the difficulties of declaring UDI, whilst retaining that as the ultimate option.
Grouse Beater
10 years ago
Scotland – Going, Going, Gone … Grouse Beater
heedtracker
10 years ago
“That a command paper will be published by the end of October, that the heads of agreement between the parties and further devolution will come in November and that the draft legislation, the laws that will form the Scotland Bill and eventually the Scotland Act, will be ready by the end of January”
Says rancid old Herald. Actually this does explain why Crash and THE VOW was not published timetable yesterday because it’s all been switched to “heads of agreement” will be published at end of October. So that’s not quite yesterday but at least gives these fraudsters a good dod of time to cook up some weird devo crap.
God only knows what the herald ligger means by heads of agreement between the parties etc will come in November but that’s UKOK bullshit artists I suppose.
X_Sticks
10 years ago
Haven’t read all the posts yet, but can I suggest that Chris makes a slight amendment to this cartoon.
There should be a pic of Hamish in the background with a lighter in his hand and a smile on his face.
I am not for giving up. I hope the rest of you will continue too.
Vince
10 years ago
I am reminded of the movie scene where everyone shouted “I am Spartacus”. Well let me tell the establishment. I am SALMOND.
Chris, perhaps you could do another version of this cartoon showing wee Hamish with a box of matches…
On the Scottish MPs not voting on non-Scottish matters – I hope the SNP now change their stance and START voting on them. BT/NOthanks say we’re better together, well, that cuts both ways. We can interfere in their legislation as well. Let’s get the SNP using their votes to help the disenfranchised in England, Wales & NI.
alexicon
10 years ago
@caz-m.
45 is and always will be a non runner for me as it automatically excludes the other 55% that some of may vote for independence. It alienates right from the outset.
I still have my car sticker on and I still wear my badge, in fact I just took down my YES posters from my house windows this morning.
I am proud of voting YES and I don’t want the tainted no voters to forget they sold out Scotland.
They want to forget and get on as before, but I am determined that will not happen.
s some quarters of society say: wear it loud and wear it proud.
So good on you. Everyone else should do the same.
Minty
10 years ago
Got an email from Douglas Alexander, sounds the same as the Miliband one. I’ve joined the SNP.
Just composing my response.
Anyone know who is standing against Jim Murphy in East Ren in May? Willing to offer help.
I can remember when SNP needed precentage points to reach up to 10 per cent.
On Thursday we were short by only 6 per cent.
Elect SNP to Holyrood in 2016 and sound the knell via a “Unilateral Declaration of Independence”.
ALL those who voted to retain the union, voted for Devo-Max, are already seeing Krash`s VOW to hand new powers to Holyrood by Jan next year – has returned as a Convention – at the end of next year.
“THEY” BOUGHT THE LIES BUT THE REST OF US PAY THE PRICE.
ronnie anderson
10 years ago
Apprentice Boys of Derry have just walked past my house with two bangs
ronnie anderson
10 years ago
two bands of the apprentice boys ,it should have read.
Grouse Beater
10 years ago
What the No camp chose was unknown, unquantified policies imposed from the top down, the very process the democracy movement sought to overthrow.
Jim Mitchell
10 years ago
When the burnt the Saltire last night they also provided the light to relight that candle.
You can’t kill a nation!
Arabs for Independence
10 years ago
I am not for giving up. Far from it. The incompetence and greed of the alliance members will give us the opportunity to have another referendum; sooner rather than later.
The ‘more powers’ whilst quite meaningless, will offer us the stick to beat the No campaign with.
Gordon Brown’s ego trip will also give us another chance.
mogabee
10 years ago
Thanks Chris, I think!
I certainly felt like crap yesterday, snapping at folk, but feel energised again and keen to carry on.
Jim Thomson re bigger berths for aircraft carriers, that’s already happening I read a link on here ages ago about a dock in Hull being lengthen and bring able to be joined to another in order to accommodate the vessels. We will be asset stripped.
Midgehunter
10 years ago
The candle was snuffed out but the candle is still there just waiting to be relit.
john king
10 years ago
schrodingers cat @ 11.32
Starting to feel like the one who gets picked last for the team,
Why didnt I get an email from Mr Ed (the talking horse)? 🙁
Robert The Bruce
10 years ago
Never give up. EVER!
They think they have won…they are sadly mistaken. This is just the beginning. I’ll never stop until our country is free from these lying, thieving cretins.
Liquid Lenny
10 years ago
Chunky Mark Artist Taxi Driver tells us to keep the fight going, brilliant stuff again from Mark.
Yesterday I was down for “8” but today Im on my feet fighting again. just one thing to all the people who are going on about getting 45 SNP Mp’s elected in Westminster.
When we have 45 SNP MP’s we will have at least a 50% plus 1 majority for Independence. Presumably if we can get a huge majority at Westminster then we can also get a huge majority at Holyrood (If it still exists) When we get 50%+1 at Holyrood, then the First Minister should call a vote in parliament to end the treaty of union. Simples.
Calgacus, we are on the same side. I have been VERY involved in the campaign and I am VERY unhappy with the result of the referendum. I’m a middle aged bloke who spent much of yesterday spontaneously bursting into tears! However, I attended the postal vote openings, I was present at the count. I WAS THERE as the Wings Referendum Agent.
I can certainly testify that the postal vote numbers were very high and that there was a significant degree of VERY old voters – much higher than I might have suspected. Many of the dates of birth I witnessed during the verification process ranged from 1911 – 1925. However, the signatures for these votes concurred with that of an elderly person, and matched with their application for a postal vote which was often made years earlier.
Now, I’m not going to follow internet conspiracy theories. One thing I must question is the motives that drove a 103 year old to take a decision for millions of people about something they might never actually see themselves. However, it would be a very brave soul indeed who denied that person the vote. I was quite humbled to see that one.
Maybe it’s better this way they were trying to guilt trip if we said yes with their don’t leave us we love you plea but by their actions they have left us with no choice indeed forced us to leave We go on until we win.
Midgehunter
10 years ago
Caroline Corfield says
“Jim Thomson re bigger berths for aircraft carriers, that’s already happening I read a link on here ages ago about a dock in Hull being lengthen and bring able to be joined to another in order to accommodate the vessels. We will be asset stripped.”
And where are they getting the money from to do it all?
Don’t worry the Scots and their oil can pay for it – light that bloody candle someone…
Ken500
10 years ago
Next step rout out the useless Labour liars. The feeble fifty. Tories/LibDems already routed. Then another Referendum. 4 years later.
Highlands and Islands are being kept in the Dark. Poor Internet connections. Better connection will be up to speed. Get the WBB circulating now.
Jim McIntosh
10 years ago
I am Alex Salmond
liz
10 years ago
I’m still in a dark place but not as bad as yesterday.
I read that a French newspaper has a cartoon with a Scotsman wearing a kilt and someone saying , he has no balls – don’t know if it was here or on twitter.
Well Europe has nothing to be proud of – they could have supported us in our quest but instead we had a lot of the euros telling you wont get into the EU etc.
Also we tried to request independent monitors of the election but that got no where either.
The 45 have nothing to be ashamed of but they will try very hard to make us feel insignificant.
All the Proud Scots will be subjected to the same derision but with them it’s true.
There are a lot of ideas around at the moment and I hope we will come together to support the big idea.
AS warned us we were up against the dark forces of the establishment and as expected they were very good.
They allowed us hope and then took it away, that was more destructive than fighting against us.
We knew it wouldn’t be easy but I think now we realise that more than ever.
And for all you people linking to MSM newspapers could you please stop. I will NEVER read another MSM paper in my life.
As for GB – I will never in my life understand him and also the Celtic supporting Murphy, Reid etc – what are they about?
Also I don’t know how any self respecting Scots person could attend the England match – you will be treated to dogs abuse
Tam Jardine
10 years ago
Robert Louis
I agree with you. Trying to work out where to channel my anger at the unionist parties and press who have lied and promised what they are unable to deliver.
A few ideas:
1. No more dilution of the vote – SNP candidates, green party or SSP in appropriate seats.
2. Organised campaigns to destroy the confidence in the complacent lying labour MPs ‘credibility’ in their constituencies. Highlighting their voting records, expenses and the bullshit promises they have made that will never be fulfilled. I have pushed thousands of leaflets through doors and am happy to do so again.
3. We need unity, purpose and ideas. Can I suggest crowd funding a progressive conference for well before the next general election to bring together the range of pro indy groups/parties and form some form of council. We need this to continue as a movement but desperately need to a learn lessons from the failure to win.
One lesson is that we can never let them make it about one man then watch as that man is demonised. We need a broad leadership.
4. The next referendum whenever we get it needs built on more solid foundations to get the elderly on board rather than the absurd and insulting idea that they will somehow just die out. If, as looks likely we lost this on the elderly vote this area needs real attention.
Whether that be a real drive to improve their conditions or simply wake them up. Next time we cannot simply hope to offset the elderly vote. This can be done by helping them rather than hating them for screwing things up for the rest of us.
Let’s not forget that they will feel the austerity agenda keenly – they simply chose to believe the lies about pensions that were peddled.
5. The press. We have to somehow put these unionist rag’s to the sword and much as I think that newspapers are the past, passing a new stand everyday and seeing no propaganda on every front page has been a killer.
Whether that be building on Newsnet Scotland and producing a printed edition, creating something new or buying a failed Scotsman, we can’t be in the same situation next time. Boycott of unionist rags like the herald daily is essential. Ian Bell, Lesley Riddoch and Iain Macwhirter along with the young guard who has emerged can find a new home.
I’m still very raw and nothing I have said is meant as criticism of anyone on the Yes side – I am proud to be part of this and from this great setback our great victory will spring.
“Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown was said to have ‘brokered a deal’ with all three London parttes. He said: “We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.”
It now appears as though that timetable has been scrapped.”
No shit Sherlock. So it was all cunning stunt to save the union. Well it worked so can we please start taxing those voted Naw Thanks. Why should I pay for all those Lamontable freebies and handouts to those 2 million that voted against all of it?
We’re all Tories now, red, yellow, green.
Gallowglass
10 years ago
We need to wait and see what happens with the SNP, Yes Scotland and the rest of the campaign groups.
Unfortunately as others have pointed out we have handed Scottish politics back over to Westminster. We are also bound to wait and see the outcomes over this course of events.
I know some are keen to rebound, and keep fighting, but at the moment the ‘battle’ is over until we can see something regroup.
Grouse Beater
10 years ago
New Zealand has just returned its own national party.
donnywho
10 years ago
Lets buy the the Scotsman it has to be on the market soon, don’t hate the media own it
James123
10 years ago
@X_Sticks
There should be a pic of Hamish in the background with a lighter in his hand and a smile on his face.
I’ve just joined the SNP! Perhaps we should all do this?
I don’t know what all their policies are and I’m sure I’ll disagree with some, but I joined based on the aims set-out in their constitution. I’ve never been a member of any political movement before.
Caroline Corfield
10 years ago
I’m not sure I agree with the name 45 suggesting exclusion of the other 55%, they are more than welcome to join. It’s a rally call, not a gauntlet thrown down. We’re not at war with the 55% but we are in opposition to the Establishment and anyone who perpetuates the lie too wee, too poor, too stupid.
john king
10 years ago
Alexicon says
“I still have my car sticker on and I still wear my badge, in fact I just took down my YES posters from my house windows this morning.
I am proud of voting YES and I don’t want the tainted no voters to forget they sold out Scotland.”
I went out into my garden in the half light this morning, (tipping it down with rain) and took down my YES Saltire, to cat calls and jeers from a nearby no voting neighbour, 1 minute later my other saltire (no yes on it) appeared on the skyline, my neighbour dissapeared back indoors without a word.
Ronnie says
“Apprentice Boys of Derry have just walked past my house with two bangs”
“two bands of the apprentice boys ,it should have read.”
Thank god for that, I thought it was a march past shooting 🙂
I was looking for bullet holes in your shed 😉
Ken500
10 years ago
3000 new SNP members. It’s happening.
SNP members fund the Party with what they can give (to help others). Unionist Party members join for what they can get. Interest groups.
Unionist support of minority Orange Marches is an affront to democracy. A disgraceful waste of public money. They charge Food banks rent.
alistair
10 years ago
My tuppence worth is that we should let the dust settle. I have no doubt Westmonster will do our work for us before the next WM election – its already started. Wouldn’t it be brilliant if the Yes parties could for one election come under a YES Scotland Coalition so there is only one candidate in all Westminster seats. They can retain their own individual party manifestos but work together to drive out the RedTories, and Liberals out of Scotland. No dilution of vote. We could all unite under that for one election only. A mix of candidates could be agreed between the parties.
heedtracker
10 years ago
So how can you square the two? Scots are showing they won’t go on committing their taxes or oil monies to building a London super-state on the global highway for the transnational rich, particularly when it’s becoming unaffordable to their Cockney comrades, driving them out of their own city to the M25 satellites.
That’s Irvine Welsh in the Graun. Thing is the people of Scotland have voted to do all of the above, for safety strength something bigger etc.
One of many UKOK vote no frauds was that Scottish Westminster MP’s pulled England leftward so STAY WITH US but even if that was remotely true, these Labour in Scotland socialists workers that each pocket £200 grand a year, are now going to be excluded from anything to do with stuff what goes down behind the M25. But we vote Naw Thanks for better or worse.
Tam Jardine
10 years ago
Almost forgot – the BBC. This discredited nest of vipers must be destroyed in Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament needs to table a motion to demand control of broadcasting in Scotland.
We need some way of coordinating cancelling licence fees and crowd funding the SBC.
PQ6? I am undecided on this as I feel we need to go further.
The 1.6 million of us will never forgive the state broadcaster for being the media branch of the no campaign.
Kid Spotlight
10 years ago
Anyone who thinks ‘the 45’ is a good idea deserves to remain as part of a notional 45% minority. To adopt a name based on failure is so bloody sad. The fact it is derived form the official establishment figures released from a possibly rigged vote makes all the more amusing. Its a self fulfilling prophecy of remaining static. It’s a huge boost fot the 55 (the opposing unionist group already set up).
The seeds are already being sewn for another defeat if this 45 thing takes off – just as the SNP have been so bloody stupid for years not to realise the party name in itself (BNP, UKIP et al) has been worth at least 10%-20% to the opponents. Had the vote been closer the name itself could have swayed many undecided voters who hate nationalist parties (and rightly so). Take the bloody weekend off WOSers and think!! It needs a an inclusive progressive alliance to win hearts and minds, not a ‘we voted YES so you NO lot can fuck off’ clique.
In the meantime never forget…
“Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” Joseph Stalin
PS printing that unionist propaganda cartoon sucks as well.
annie
10 years ago
Re identifying marks on ballot paper, there was one of those square barcode type things which I assume can be computer scanned.
call me dave
10 years ago
@Tartan Tory
Thanks for these sentiments you expressed.
I note the poll where, (in general), the over 60’s voted NO by 2:1.
I also heard a young woman quoting the first time voters as voting 71% for YES and Kaye says
“I’ve got the figures here in front of me, it’s not true it was 51% YES from the Ashford poll”.
“Oh I must have got it wrong” says woman.
Aye right! Kaye must be quoting from the BBC version.
Still wearing my YES badge I don’t want any of my Scottish neighbours thinking I voted NO.
George
10 years ago
well i aint giving up either just wait for the next general election join the greens and the snp and all the other groups into 1 party then wait for the promises fall through and the no start to feel like they betrayed both themselves and the country and with labour destroyed in scotland they will all flood over to yes bam new referendum in less than 5 years probably not even that long and now we know how to play the game we should demonize the media like they did to us spread smear stories leak scandals show the people that they are PR for the establishment then the banks and the corruption of london show people the lobby groups get people aware how exactly this goverment actually works to undermine them all with the help of the corporate media and tricks them into war after war recession after recession then we will win.
None of us are going to stop trying thats why we will win its only a matter of time or as Wee Eck likes to say a no is only a deferred yes.
Surely the cartoon should have been a triptych .
First panel the candle of hope being snuffed out.
Second panel Establishment leaving darkened room with candle smoking.
Third panel door closed but candle bursting back into flame of renewed Hope.
Tony
10 years ago
Your separatist ‘wings’ have been clipped. You will not fly anywhere.
The British bulldog will see to that.
Time to accept defeat people.
We, the 55, came so close to falling into Salmond’s abyss. We feel like it’s a new dawn. We have been spared the catastrophe.
We do not want a welfare state. We want an entrepreneurial state. We don’t want a country living on hand-outs. We want high-tech centres and young people being supported to go into business.
Your lot wanted a people living on hand-outs. A welfare state. Generations on social security.
You would have bankrupt this nation within 2 years.
55% of voters agree with me.
Rule Britannia.
liz
10 years ago
@alexicon – if you are using google chrome, they take ages to appear.
I’ve switched to ‘e’, ?firefox – and they appear instantly
Conan_the_Librarian
10 years ago
@Christian
“Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.”
I am so stealing that!
I'veNeverSeenBraveheart
10 years ago
Sorry, I posted on the previous post and didn’t realise this one was here! :
Well, I’ve had a sleep and feel a bit better.
First of all, I agree with everything Fiona said at 11:27am.
I’ve been pondering all night about this – why did we lose? Maybe we were too naive, talking among ourselves, getting carried away. There really was a “silent majority”. Last week, a friend on Facebook who I would have had down as a definite yes, came out with an angry rant about being part of the “bullied” silent majority, going on & on about intimidation, ugly scenes, disgraceful bullying at Pacific Quay etc. He is an intelligent guy yet here he was believing all the media spin. So, that is what we are up against. btw, I was really impressed with Laura Bicker during the count when Carmichael tried to get a dig in about the “disgraceful” Yes campaign intimidating BBC journalists, and she said (paraphrasing): “I really must interject but as a BBC journalist, I have never felt intimidated!”
So, the media (as we all know), is our main enemy. When we start going on & on about bias etc, people just stick us in the “tin foil hat” category. I don’t know how to get round that. The BBC is such a respected institution, even after the Jimmy Savile scandal etc. Even my family, after pointing out bias, alternative sites et, still watch the news and buy the papers and think it’s just me off on a silly rant. I really don’t know how we change that. We could start our own channel or newspaper, but it would take years to become an accepted, believable, credible part of the media. I think we need people already part of it to help with this.
The people I know who voted No, did so because they couldn’t see the need for change, and didn’t want to upset their nice, juicy apple carts. It’s alright us going on about the injustices of foodbanks and the humiliation of ATOS etc, but unless people are down there experiencing it, they fob it off, believing all the Daily Mail style bile. Sad but true. I couldn’t speak to my No voting siblings yesterday. They really could not understand why I was so upset and dejected. It was a loss of hope for me, someone just diagnosed with a chronic, life-limiting illness, terrified at the prospect of another 5-10yrs of callous austerity and the prospect of jumping through ATOS hoops. For them, today is just the same as tomorrow. Nothing has changed for them.
Already people are proclaiming it a victory for democracy, 80%+ turnout!, but if people do not understand nor care enough to see the need for change, that is not a victory for democracy, it is a victory for apathy.
Also, to win, we need to win big. I think 45%, considering where we started from, is an amazing achievement, but even if we had won with 55%, that’s an awful lot of people who would have been horrified & terrified about it the next morning. We still have a lot of work to do, opening eyes & minds. But 45%. That’s amazing. Well on the way. It won’t seem such a scary prospect next time.
So, more positively! I’ve always been political, but never a member of anything. I’m considering joining CND or the Greens. The amount we are about to waste on Trident 2 is utterly immoral, and I want to do everything I can to try and stop that.
I already don’t pay my TV licence, or buy newspapers, sadly stopped buying Tunnocks teacakes, and John Lewis & Asda are now on my list to avoid too. It won’t make much difference sure, but it will make me feel better. I think I may also move my banking to ASB.
I like the idea of us, the 45ers, to begin with at least, in these next few weeks as we lick our wounds and form a plan. However, while I like the name, it is by its nature exclusive and divisive, so not for the long term I wouldn’t think. We have a momentum here, and I don’t think it can be stopped. I’m feeling more positive this morning! 🙂
Anne
10 years ago
Well I have got over my huffy strop and am raring to go again. I am about to email my MP and harass him over their (broken already) promise. He will get to know me well over the next few months.
I can’t promise to stop buying newspapers as I have not bought one for years. Don’t have Sky TV but I will start my protest in small ways – bought Scottish cheese instead of my usual English stuff in
Tesco’s today!
One thing I will mention which is annoying me about this site though is numerous snidely comments over the recent months about the more wealthier parts of Edinburgh. I (as do other members of my family) live in a nice part of the city. We all voted Yes and I think one of the mistakes was to concentrate too much on the people living in the housing schemes. For Scotland to thrive as an independent country you need people from all walks of life to buy in to it. I read a comment this morning from someone here that our council tax should go up as a punishment for the No vote – well I may live in a nice area but that does not make me rich! Also my parents in their 80”s voted Yes – please stop tarring everyone with the same brush as it will just alienate people. Blame the politicians and the media – not each other.
Tartan Tory
10 years ago
@ Tony
I hate to burst your bubble Tony, but 45/55 isn’t what you’d call a convincing majority. I know some staunch BritNats who are already calling for a second referendum if the Westminster promises aren’t kept.
Also, the word ‘separatists’ cannot be used legitamately to describe nearly half a population.
Swami Backverandah
10 years ago
Apols if someone’s already mentioned, and I haven’t read all the comments, but didn’t Salmond say – perhaps in the resignation speech, that there were other ways of achieving independence besides ref’s. Did he mean by a parliamentary majority?
I haven’t been back to check the speech, but I’m always interested in the way things are carefully worded. eg when he said “he” wouldn’t call another indy ref
Croompenstein
10 years ago
Thick British Tony the unionist chugger stirs again, I hope and pray you fall on hard times TBT and then you can ask your pals Dishface and IDS to help you out you prick
Nana Smith
10 years ago
Yesterday morning when our First minister stood at the podium to give speech, the words on the front of the podium read One Scotland.
That should be the name for a united independence party.
One Scotland
Dave McEwan Hill
10 years ago
Sorry Gallowglass at 12.01 the fightback starts now and does not include anything other than a drive for normal independence which we nearly achieved on Thursday.
We did not hand the agenda back and we have no intention of giving any serious consideration to any of the tiddly wee plans that will be flung about to divert us away from independence.
NOW
X_Sticks
10 years ago
@James
Thanks James, exactly what I wanted. 🙂
Druidpld
10 years ago
Glad to see Carmichael being given a lesson in what right wing nationalism, intimidation and bigotry really looks like by his unionist friends. Good luck with yer new pals Carmichael, Murphy et al.
john king
10 years ago
Conan
“I am so stealing that!”
Too late I saw it first. 🙂
Jim McIntosh
10 years ago
@Tony
Dry boak.
Shouldn’t you be out marching somewhere.
Kilty
10 years ago
Oh, they got one candle? I hope it wasn’t yours Rev Stu. They still have 1,617,988 more to go, and you know what they say “if you play with fire you’re going to get burnt”. 🙂
Caroline Corfield
see your point.
but it is about the amazing achievements of the 45.
how about, 45+, doesn’t work does it, because it is a foundation group of the 45.
we build from here on solid foundations.
it can be renamed after independence is won, hopefully 70.
fred blogger
10 years ago
imo it would do no harm to buy the sunday herald.
Democracy Reborn
10 years ago
What we’re still up against in the MSM:-
Only a day after the ‘Vow” was broken, Ministry of Truth (aka BBC) headlining “Brown Promises to ‘Lock In’ Scots Powers”. Also the main item in Radio Clyde news bulletin.
How can a backbench, non-government party MP be able to “lock in” anything?
Tony, take your effigy of Britannia and shove her up your arse.
Wee Jonny
10 years ago
My candle was put out yesterday morning when “Scotland rejects independence” came up in bold red letters on the telly. However after 24 hours of mourning, Alex’s resignation and the thought of no more Wings I found a huge box of matches and my candles burning again. Part of this was Wings is still with us and the thought that BT said all along that independence was one mans vanity project as the Scots didn’t want it. If this was true then this one man took on the whole of the British Establishment, 99% of politicians, every newspaper, TV news producers, big banks, big business, big supermarkets, world leaders, 200 celebrities and the worlds one and only psephologist. Add to that, the shit that was thrown at him for years and he came within 10% of beating them all. If that diznay relight yir candles then you may need another day or twa to find that huge box of matches. We will get them blown out again and again but there is enough of us and there will be more candles burning brighter that ever until our day is here.
K1
10 years ago
There’s a kind of time delay going on with the comments, if you post, sometimes the comment vanishes, but it has still posted, wait a few moments and refresh…you will see it is there. You don’t have to keep reposting, as they will all then show up, no doubt creating a headache for Stu. Just my experience 🙂
Look out tis Duncan Hothersall. These guys knew they had won by 10pm Thursday but why. Good to see Duncan happy and another socialist worker getting hugged by fascists in the Daily Heil too. Is Duncan chosen for great things in the Scotland region? He’s certainly put the effort in.
My son tells me his friends on twitter, and there are many with many other friends and so on are all really angry and ready to push ahead.
There seems to be a fire in their bellies right now so it should be kept burning.
john king
10 years ago
Whats that noise, oh its ok its just Tonys pals dragging their knuckles through George Square,
hurry up Tony of you double time and stick your sash up your arse you’ll mibbe catch up with them.
john king
10 years ago
Heedtracker says
“Good to see Duncan happy and another socialist worker getting hugged by fascists in the Daily Heil too.”
Probably smiling cos he got a reach aroound. 🙂
Jim McIntosh
10 years ago
If someone got car window stickers with ‘If at first you don’t secede, try and try again” I’d buy one. Be brill to see one on every other car in Scotland.
heedtracker
10 years ago
Same Daily Heil thing with Duncan says “Fairness will keep the UK together” and thats all from William Hague! There is really no depths to this fraud but there is funny bits too. They can say anything they like now, Naw thanks voters gave them full power to do and say anything.
fred blogger
10 years ago
Tony
bankrupt, the UK has £4trl of debt, with a falling GDP of £1.8trl.
productivity per capita GDP is plunging.
the UK is soon to become 4 super counties, with a city of london hub.
so in fact the UK will soon cease to even exist.
that sounds like fun!
Papadox
10 years ago
Let us remember, “the darkest hour comes before the dawn”
But the dawn always comes.
Baheid
10 years ago
Nana,
Twitter is absolutely buzzing. It’s revitalising our endeavor with great gusto.
Alive and kicking
Grouse Beater
10 years ago
55% of voters agree with me.
You have that the wrong way around.
They are not marching to your tin whistle tune.
Midgehunter
10 years ago
After being completely gutted and mentally drained, I’m now starting to think this ref. might have been a blessing in disguise.
We’ve gone from 25 to 45%, a huge acheivement even if we wanted more, the ultimate prize.
Leaving aside the hard core 30%, we didn’get indy because too many people were Devo-MAXers or the time isn’t quite ripe folk. They voted to give WM the chance with their “Vow” “Pledge” or whatever. Conned we would say but they made their choice.
They and the Vow are now right in the spotlight and we Yessers are going to make sure they don’t forget it.
WM can’t and won’t deliver on their promises so sooner or later when everything collapses there’s gonna be a lot of disappointed folk out there and ready for persuasion.
I think this process will move fairly quickly and our job is to keep the pressure up and guide them over to YES.
Is there any way a concerted effort can be made to publicly discredit and then oust prominent Labour / Tory / Liberal MSP’s at the next election?
They have to a person lied and have no credibility.
Baheid
10 years ago
Jim McIntosh,
Excellent. 🙂
Fiona
10 years ago
@fredblogger and others
I did respond to Tony yesterday so I am not in a position to say this: but really, do not respond to this sad, unmannerly lout. He is the face of misery, as all that kind of unionists are: the only game they know is kick the cat, for they are the lowest of the low, and they know they are
Brian Ritchie
10 years ago
They will never extinguish the candle in our hearts. 😉
James123
10 years ago
On the BBC News channel ticker, “Gordon Brown promises pledges of new powers will be kept”, closely followed by “Westminster parties clash over new powers for Scotland”. Says it all.
Jim Mitchell
10 years ago
“Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.”
Brilliant, what a slogan!
Conan great to see your still in fine fettle!
As for going on, well what the hell would wae do wae oor time anyway, the wife gives me hell when I get under her feet!
BTW everybody, the last hours have just confirmed something for me, nat’s can find more humor, even of the dark kind, in defeat than unionists can find even in their victories.
Best of all, I know that most of it is to help the spirits of other Nats. I don’t know how many times since the result I have been asked, are you alright!
The unionists have no idea, it’s from my fellow Nat’s of all kinds that my hope comes, it is all of you who have relit my candle!
Although i may never meet you, except in spirit, this knackered auld nationalist says thank you friends!
heedtracker
10 years ago
@ john king, he’s a happy boy oor Dunc. But now is the time to make sure that all of these teamGB delights start paying for teamGB.
We cannot possibly accept that same Naw thanks vote continues to take all devo benefits fought so hard for by people like Alex Salmond.
For wealthy naw thanks voters even taking a bus pass is fraud beyond my tolerance levels and I grew up watching much the same BBC UKOK SlabCondem freak show annihilate Scargill and the miners. Duncan’s a shill on the make but its going to cost the 2+million naw thanks vote a lot of money for even more teamGB bullshit, with a hell of a lot less democracy. They voted for him, they can pay for him.
ouch
The candle has already been re-lit. The Famous 45 who voted Yes are being sparked into life!
There should be another thousand candles in the background.
That hurt!
They may like to think that’s what happened!
All the caring they pretended to show – and all the promises that they’d make things better. They probably forgot all about it in their rush to get back to the trough.
Aye, it didn’t take the Unionist politicians long to revert to type.
They think
Excellent.
Possibly the hand isn’t scaly enough.
The candle can be lit again.
Can we get Elton John up here to sing it
It might seem the candle has been snuffed out, but there is a fire in our bellies and it’s burning bright! Keep going…
My candle’s ok thanks. It dimmed for a bit but it’s picking up, and they’ll never, ever put it out.
Well, Stu, what are you going to do about it?
I’ve got beautiful wee saltire cufflinks I planned to wear on each anniversary of our independence.
They were bought only for that purpose. They’ve never been worn.
They will be one day. (’cause I’ve got more candles)
Gee thanks Chris.
That’s me off again.
1.6 million candles snuffed out.
The Establishment with all the ugliness that this term includes cannot avoid the candle that is now burning ever brighter to scorch its arse.
The candle is burning at both ends!
Dimmed early on Friday. Burning more fiercely than ever now.
“…for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
We’ve got not 100 but 1.6 million and perhaps more when they find out what they have done.
SNP application form sent off.
THE SEQUEL:
The flame causes two nasty blisters on his thumb and forefinger; the blisters become infected and turn septic, leaking into his bloodstream and killing him.
The Unionists are tying themselves in knots. HaHa Revenge comes sweet.
No, Grendel. Keep hope. If the elements that constitute the Yes Campaign continue to work together – in coalition even – the candles will not only remain alight but will burn brighter with powerful effect. They will go out only if YES dissolves and its members slink away and cease to grasp one another’s hand.
hell no. Wings has only just begun. We are only, to quote a second world war “hero” this is just the end of the beginning. Stu it is not for me to tell you what to do, but you have a following and page-view rate than many UK nationals would kill for. Go pro adverts newspaper format the whole nine yards. Till then we will fund you. Move north again, let you rats join the travel to a better land.
Those hands look they’ve seen a good days work but it’s really the soft white manicured hands of City Bankers and their BBC shills.
link to bbc.co.uk
Arise Sir Ken of Pacific Quay and worth every penny the saps coughed up.
In the words of Alex Salmond, the dream will never die.
Just 1 day after the most retched defeat and heartbreak a lot of us have ever known, and already I’m seeing the 45 rebounding. On sites like this and Bella, and on twitter, people are saying its time to reorganise, time to get back on the horse.
For me, the independence dream is closer than ever. The legacy of the referendum is an army of tuned-in activists who can defend Scotland in this uncertain time. So I say knock on the doors of neighbours with Yes signs. Help them rebound. My only fear is that the defeat has set off a hemorrhaging of the passion and hope. We need to stop the bleeding as soon as because we have a long struggle ahead.
wee folding bike – good start! Same here – after 55 years in Labour.
We’re only just waking up. It’s not over.
Don’t hate the media become the media
I think we are like those candles that never go out. Snuff us out, turn your back for two seconds and we are aflame again.
Interesting to read that Nigel Farage has written to all Scottish MPs asking them not to vote on English issues.
I hope he saved 6 stamps as SNP MP’s do not vote on English only matters.
Boris saying the same thing and Milliband is furious. Oh what a tangled weave.
Imagine if this is the first decision after the referendum and before the 2015 election. It would mean 49 Labour MP’s neutered and Labours chances of running Westminster much reduced.
Well, it serves them right. They chose to get into bed with the Tories, they deserve it.
Its the second day after the betrayal and lets not call it anything else, and already the back peddling from the fucking meaningless VOW has began.
So lets get started with getting rid of the unionist MP’s from Scotland, or should we just give them their right title “imperial masters”. 1.6 million of us should be a really good start to voting out the labour party and the rest of the unionist scum.
Its only a short time to the general election and their will be no time for this referendum to be forgotten, lets use it to our advantage. lets get the SNP, Greens and anyone but the unionists elected.
Lets make Scotland a desert for the red tories.
Alba Gu snooker loopy!
I’m so sorry to all who’ve lost hope. But all I have to say is to look to Inverclyde. We were expected to get 20% Yes. We were all told we weren’t going to take Inverclyde – we just had to do the best we could, get as many Yes voters as we could for the overall count. We’d have to steel ourselves with the reality that we’d lose the battle, but hope to win the war.
Final results? It was so close only 86 people decided the count. Out of 54572, we got 27,243 – statistically a dead heat, to the point where we needed two recounts. If we canvassed Kilmacolm and Quarriers’ Village (which were not included in our region, it was given to Renfrew – for some reason canvassing was done by Holyrood regions but the polling by Westminste, or maybe the reverse, I still haven’t slept much), I can practically guarantee Yes would’ve taken them too.
Yes Inverclyde tanned No’s hide, bloodied its nose, blackened its eyes, rattled its bones, fought to the absolute finish. They came into this fight expecting to crush us, to sail to a comfortable 80% or 70%. They had the might of Westminster, every single daily newspaper in Scotland (including the Greenock Telegraph despite its protestations of “impartiality”), the entire British media, the wealth of billionaires, a campaign of despicable lies, and the substantial support of the Orange Order on their side. We had about 20 regular campaigners and another 30 grassroots, and a wee shop on Cathcart Street for the last few months. When all was said in done, Inverclyde went from a “2 out of 10” in expectations for a Yes vote, into the 6th best percentage for the whole of Scotland.
My heart goes out to all who’ve lost hope, but ours hasn’t. If it can be done in Inverclyde, it can be done anywhere.
“As long as a hundred of us remain alive…”
There are a hell of a lot more than a hundred of us yet.
gord brown
live sky 10am
should be interesting
Im with Donnywho Rev
Last week my Labour MP told me “We’re reclaiming the streets”.
I saw all the pics on Twitter last night. Now I know what he meant.
Oops! @9:35 am
I meant middle finger.
Friends, I forgot to mention remember to keep an eye out for this years New Year hoers list, you will be able to see muiltiple examples of “30 pieces of Silver” being handed out.
And no I did not misspell hoers.
Sorry, Chris, much as it is a good cartoon, it is wrong. That is what Westminster and their Scottish Labour poodles thought happened on the 19th.
Fact is, the anger of YES voters, and those who were mislead into voting NO on the promise of more powers, is rising. We now have an entire Scotland wide network capable of campaigning. They know the streets, they know the methods, and they outnumber anything in Scotland from Labour, Tories and Libdems combined.
In order to win, the unionists from Labour lied to the Scottish people, and relied upon people from England to come up and campaign for them. Come the next Westminster election in 2015, those Labour MP troughers should be our target. They will NOT be able to bus up people from Manchester, Leeds, liverpool and Newcastle, to help them, because those people will be dedicated to their own area in England. So, together, we really do have a chance to unseat most, if not all the Lying filthy Labour MP troughers in Scotland. That is one hell of a goal. It can be done.
Most importantly, during the campaign we all learned how to talk to our fellow Scots one on one, so let’s not stop. Let’s carry on with that. Let’s talk to our friends workmates about how lying Labour have already broken their promises of more powers. Do not stop the conversation.
Join a pro independence political party if you are not in one, because there is an element of real politik about the UK general election. Much as I want new parties and campaign groups to participate, the reality is that there is ONE party, if elected in large numbers to Westminster, that will once again scare the stuffing out of London, and that is the SNP. For the Scottish elections, it is a different matter, and I would like to see co-ordination between the Greens, SSP, SNP and others, to work to ensure a pro independence ‘rainbow’ majority again at Holyrood, so we can have another referendum ASAP.
I like many others have zero intention of being nice to Westminster, and waiting ten years for the next referendum, `I want one in their face, every single year.
Let’s stop thinking this is over, this is just the beginning.
Have just composed a solo soprano saxophone piece entitled “One and a half million candles” (I know, I know, but 1.6 million isn’t so memorable). I will post it on Soundcloud when I record it. It starts in a minor key and moves to major.
Keep the flame burning.
Hiyas
I know I’m probably posting this comment on the wrong post, as it’s probably more applicable to your editor’s comments, but if I could make a suggestion:
Is it possible that someone could put up a clear demographic of the vote results. I don’t mean the regions, but things like how did the new 16/17’s vote; the over 65’s, men; women; etc.
This would help enormously as I blog on a number of other sites, but it’s impossible to get clear info in one place and especially difficult in MSM.
I am also an newly ex, long-term guardian commenter.
Thanks so much to all the posters here for their clear info.
SBV x
It’s not about losing hope anyway. NO is the settled will of people of Scotland for at least another 30 years. Has Scotland or being a Scot died this week? No. Have we the Scots become a world wide joke? Maybe.
Fact is only one man can bring change now to Scotland and he’s goes by the name of Nigel Farage. Kneel before your masters Scotland:D
At the very least it’s going to weird watching all those rich EU subsidised proud Scot but farmers that ploughed NO into their road side fields, desperately trying to cling on to their giant EU handouts as UKIP and teamGB leave Europe.
Rule Britannia or is it Zeig Heil now. Must check smiley face of UK fascism link to theguardian.com
Robert Louis – thanks for this. A way ahead. I will join and support the SNP for a start. Let’s get a full complement of SNP MPs into the Westminster parliament. Labour especially has shown its true present nature and deserves to die in Scotland – Labour to which I have devoted 55 yeas …..
This ain’t over it’s only the end of the beginning.
Meanwhile in a darkened room in Whitehall
link to youtube.com 😀
@Taranaich
The South Ayrshire count was also a bit of a triumph because of the outcome. Before the count, and based on 2011 election figures, it would have been down near the bottom of the 32 areas. We managed to swing enough voters to get us up to mid-table in terms of overall performance.
What we ALL did counted!
So, (all of us) don’t sit greetin’ intae yer hankies, we have achieved a magnificent thing. Don’t ever forget that.
The seeds are sown, the Westminster “Vow” will crumble, there will be a significant proportion of NO voters who will be alarmed that their faith has been dashed (again!) and there is the possibility that we can rouse enough support for further positive referendum action in the next couple of years.
We need to keep drip feeding the messages about our REAL wealth, and how we are going to be ripped off even more now that the 55% have endorsed the existing state.
I’m bloody well not putting out MY candle ! It’s just been relit!! The fight goes on!
go pro we have to have a voice in the mainstream. Scotsman is going cheep, crowd-fund, issue shares, borrow money from our wealthy supporters, the talent is there the market is there and the will is there. Lets take them on in their own back yard. Don’t hate the media become the media
Some words for the 45. Resist temptation, whether it’s the temptation to sink into the demoralising despair of the private realm, with its television, football and drugs (legal and illegal), or the temptation to surrender to outraged indignation and seek refuge in the fantasy of armed struggle. Temptation leads to depoliticisation. Resist it.
Glasgow, Labour’s heatland in Scotland, voted Yes, despite Labour. Nu Labour has no function in politics any more, no reason to exist, it represents nobody anymore. There is no point in ‘voting Labour to keep the Tories out’. Nu Labour ARE Tories, just a different flavour of Toryism. They are but a resurgence of liberal imperialism – a ghoulish relic from the nineteenth century. Next year in the general election, Glasgow can put a stake in its heart and put the monster down.
Stay open to people. Remember that one in three Shetlanders voted Yes. Remember Rangers Fans for Independence and don’t write off all Rangers supporters as loyalists. Remember those who voted Yes in the Western Isles despite the Wee Free. Minds can be changed so long as they remain open; demonising people will just close their minds.
Let the BNP, the Loyalists, the Orangemen and the rest of them riot in George Square, but stay away from it. Let them discredit themselves. Remember that most No voters are timid souls, George Square will frighten and alienate them.
Watch English nationalism grow. They want an English parliament. Let them have it. Nothing is more certain to destroy the union. Be wary of these offers of more power to the Scottish Parliament. Some of them are poisoned chalices. Above all, be wary of ‘federalism’. It means a written constitution and a written constitution would make a future referendum on Independence impossible. Written constitutions are but straightjackets on democracy.
The future is unwritten.
Hail Alba – Síocháin agus saoirse
I am in a much more upbeat and determined mood today. 1.6 million of us cannot be ignored. Also very heartened by how the 16-17 year olds voted. Our future doesn’t look so bad.
PS Are there breakdowns of how each area in the council areas voted? Where is this to be found if available? Ta.
Posted this on the previous thread but I think it needs repeated because we need to understand how the NO side won the vote.
OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.
I assume that’s the candle of all the fearties that voted NO you are illustrating because this 45’s candle is burning brighter. As Charles Parnell said “No man has the right to fix a boundary to the march of a nation. No man can say ‘thus far shalt thou go, and no further’. We have never sought to set the ne plus ultra of our nationhood, nor shall we ever”
Says it all for me.
Just been back to read the comments, and noticed HandandShrimp here?
Are you the same H&S from Graun comments?
No need to disclose if you’d rather not.
I’m goto – ex commenter.
That was a good suggestion up thread that you ‘become the media’. This site reminds me a bit of Private Eye – hope I’m not saying the wrong thing there, but you know what I mean.
In fact, you are the media. This site is being referenced to disillusioned MSM comment vets.
Best of luck to you
@ Swami Backverandah, check out Professor john Curtice. He’s the only vote analyst or psephologist n the world according to BetterTogetherBBC and to answer your question, the majority of this age group voted YES and the majority of their parents and grand parents voted No. So make of that what you will. Brings a bit of a lump to my throat oddly enough.
@Swami
link to mirror.co.uk
[…] The candle […]
PS, if we become the media we must be outward looking and a UK National, those buggers need our help as much as we do. It will also help to get the English on side and stoke the fires of resistance within the whole UK, with that they will have resistance to deal with on two fronts.
saporian – my sentiments exactly – as a life-long Labour supporter – I am angry and disgusted beyond words. Labour deserves an ignominious and sudden death.
Start now, if you build it we will come, nemo me impune laccasit
I intend to carry on the fight. Now I am free of professional constraints on political activity I will devote myself to the cause.
I have already said this elsewhere but those who voted no did so to a large degree believing more powers would be granted and when they see the extent to which they have been betrayed their anger will be greater than ours. The British will find three million fiercely burning candles a lot harder to snuff out. And three million Yes votes much harder to fiddle!
Swami Backverandah Lord Ashcroft produced a poll on demographics of Indy Vote
pic.twitter.com/H1qsAxdf8M that will give you it all
Woke up to that email from Millibland and have just about calmed down to write a wee message for Scottish Labour.
We are coming for you, we will not rest we will hold you to account for putting your party’s interests before the people of Scotland’s interest. We will campaign tirelessly to remove the cancer of Labour from Scottish politics from the top down. Every councillor, every MSP, every MP we are legion
@ Davy
“New Year’s hoers”
As a noob, I’m not up with the jargon yet, and I thought you meant New Year’s hoovers 😉
Posted this on the previous thread but I think it needs repeated so that we can understand why we lost the vote.
OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.
@Robyn – Quine fae Torry 10:05am
Unfortunately the way the ballots were counted means that detail isn’t available.
The boxes were delivered to the count and each one opened so that the number of ballot papers could be counted to verify the tally against the register at each polling place.
Those ballots were then aggregated into random boxes for the final count. That means it is pretty much impossible to see how each ballot subdivision voted.
When standing in front of the teller who is counting the contents of each of the original boxes (which have the polling station name on them), it was possible to get a reasonable idea of the split between yes & no, but it was extremely difficult to exactly count the votes because not all of them were clearly visible and there were three tellers per box in the South
Ayrshire count.
I was lucky enough to stumble on one of the eight boxes from our local station as it was being emptied but, never having done anything like this before, I had a struggle developing a mental method of counting. Next time (and there will be!) a clipboard!
Gord
I want the drugs he’s on
Irvine Welsh’s candle certainly hasn’t gone out…
link to theguardian.com
30 seconds of Gordon Liar Brown pacing up and down was enough for me, I had to turn the TV off.
Hell NO!
With tears in my eyes I joined the SNP formally this morning.
There is no need to give up hope. We polled 45%. We did win the argument amongst those who were able to listen. We faught a good fight.
It took other peoples years to win freedom. Nelson Mandella was in jail for 26 years. This is just a setback on our own road to freedom. The best time would have been 30 years ago. A second best time would have been thursday last. But the next time will be the last time, because next time we will win. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we will be free. Sooner rather than later.
45%
Listening to BBC R4’s repulsive political obituary of Alex Salmond yesterday was another very creepy teamGB experience. But this is what it’s all about.
link to dailymail.co.uk
I received an email last night from Ed addressing me by name and congratulating us on voting to stay together. He invited me to join the Labour Party in working for a more socially just society.
I declined
Lock in measles 1& 2
walofs
We have camera men, citizen journalists, international commentators, Video lifestyle writers, radio shows, tv satire, artists, creatives, bloggers, twitter feeds, we own the internet all we need is the will and coordination!
With the internet you don’t even need an office. I am sure that you have the talent to coordinate this as you have done a wee bit of publishing LOL already. Most would contribute for free, at least for a while, it is so doable. A British (wand mass) national paper holding Westminster to account, now wouldn’t investigative journalism come as a shock to these toadies. Do it, i am sure we are all behind you, one step back and a huge leap forward for us all!
Does anyone have a photo of the ballot paper? I’m keen to know if there was any identifying serial number on them – I can’t remember if there was and I’ve seen a few threads from people who claim there were no official marks on the paper at all…
Anyone know for sure?
Thanks for all the stats refs upthread.
Fortified by your comments here, I’m off to have a look round the meeja
Morning one and all, seems as if we are all feeling a bit brighter and ready to saddle up once more.
I was just saying to my husband this morning ( now that I had calmed down a bit), that these stupit auld buggers who voted to protect their pensions, or liebour will get back at wastemonster and protect our health service, have just voted away the one chance they had to protect all that. Just how thick are some folk?
John (hubby) was out swimming last night with two mates, who both voted naw. One he knew is just greedy, pensions shares etc.But mind you he’s the very yin aye moanin about his health. The ither yin, he’s greedy as well mind, but his main reason for voting naw wis because liebour are gonnae get in at wastemonster next year. When John asked them, “how will you get on then when it’s Boris and Nigel” he said the look of shear horror on their faces was a picture to be hold.
Aye be careful what you wish for right enough. Whit wis George Square a’ aboot last night, if that’s with being better together is aboot, well nae thanks.
Aye, New Year. Wouldn’t it be magnificent if all the party goers booed a certain presenter on the Ministry Of Truth Hogmanay show?
Civil disobedience.
Stunts.
Our young people did amazing things before Thursday. Lets keep up the happy campaign.
We have demography on our side. We are going to win this next time.
45%
These words inspire me from MLK the say before he was killed..
Like anybody, I would like to live – a long life; longevity has its place. But I’m not concerned about that now. I just want to do God’s will. And He’s allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I’ve looked over. And I’ve seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land. So I’m happy, tonight. I’m not worried about anything. I’m not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
We have looked over and seen the promised land and we will not lie down and die
Milliband demands a Convention for a devo conversation in a years time and that’s it. Tories say no, let’s get the Scots Labour MP’s out of English affairs for good and starting now for end of January. Farage says just bar Scots MP’s from all English only sessions in the House of Commons. Graun”s Toynbee wants all and any Scottish constituency MP’s banned from holding any UK high office. Cameron and co think they can use Scotland to take out Labour in Westminster and keep control of Scotland.
All we can do now is watch, because that’s what the people of Scotland voted for.
Seems like the SNP already have 3,000 new members, if I have read things correctly.
The next target, as I stated above, has to be to get an SNP army into Westminster in 2015, even if we don’t all necessarily agree with all the SNP does – it is a means to an end. We need to use our combined campaigning expertise which we now have, to unseat every single Labour MP in Scotland. Only the SNP can do this as a party, of all the other Scottish parties who are pro indy.
In England, only a large number of SNP MP’s sent to westminster will scare them, and get the attention of the London media.
Before anybody thinks that is unfair, I also want a coalition of pro indy parties (SSP, Greens (especially), SNP and others) to work hard for the Scottish elections in 2016, so we once again have a pro independence majority in Holyrood.
We as pro indy campaigners should think strategically, and support that and those who will have the most impact in either London or Holyrood. So, we lend our support to the SNP for Westminster, then for Holyrood, we lend our support to ALL the pro indy parties, and choose who is most likely to succeed in particular seats.
We can do this. We need to think smart, and not let any tribal or party matters get in the way. Let’s use whichever party candidate will unseat Labour, in whichever way. This is what we should do.
Then with strong SNP representation at Westminster, and a ‘rainbow’ pro indy coalition at Holyrood, we get another referendum and another and another. Let us take this to Westmidden.
Now that Westminster has already broken its ‘solemn vow’, then it is perfectly legitimate for us to seek another referendum. All bets are off.
Let’s make the thing they fear most happen – A NEVERENDUM. We will win. Make no mistake, we will win.
🙂 🙂
It felt more like a revolution than a movement. And a revolution keeps coming round.
I’ve got a box of matches…
@Krackerman 10:22am
All papers were bar-coded with serial numbers. As you collected your ballot paper at the polling station (applies to postal as well) your ballot paper number is entered into a register and your name scored off the main list of registered voters. Those people with postal votes had a letter “p” alongside their name on that register (to stop them voting twice).
As far as I can gather, all associated paperwork is held for a year before being destroyed.
I’ve forced myself to listen to Broonie. What he’s proposing is a mile away from Johan Lamonts offering.
A decent enough speech but he lost it for me when he starting talking about social justice, has he not read that Milliband is going to accept Osbournes austerity package.
Labours record on social justice is appalling, rich get richer, poor get pooer.
My apologies to anyone trying to cheer themselves up, but that’s certainly how I felt yesterday. As some have said, however, candles can always be re-lit. Stay strong folks 🙂
Older people tend to be more socially excluded, I see my gran as does the rest of the family sadly maybe not as often as we should and I’m sure there are plenty out there that don’t have a great deal of people in their life, they are also more likely to not technologically minded therefore have less access to the online materials that we and others have.
We cannot devour our elderly people because they came, almost, from a different time and place. As many are shouting out, there are still 45’s amongst them.
We can, with some positivity, point out that we have the generations below them believing in independence.
What people should be attacking is our Unionist media in Scotland, or more positively countering it with our own conventional equivalent.
This has to be the task of the 1.6m.
I would like it to be the task of this website and others amongst the movement, irrespective of personal differences, this is why we lost.
At the UK General election next year, we must not just target Labour MPs like Douglas Alexander and Jim Murphy. We must also go after Lib/Dems like Danny Alexander.
I have a feeling that we could be looking at another Referendum sooner than a lot a people think.
keep building, keep fighting and light a candle, no damn it light lots
Good cartoon, but so not true. Robin MacAlpine posted the most inspiring call to action I have ever read on Bella last night. Hope has not been snuffed out, merely temporarily dimmed.
The candle may have been put out for now, but we have the matches required to re-light it. The only question is, will we place it in a shelf too high for the Unionist thugs and “I’m all right Jacks” who sold out everyone’s future to snuff it out again?
I truly believe we can, and MUST keep the momentum going, not be disheartened by the false promises we all saw coming being ripped up, and make sure in 2015 we send Westminster a message by giving them MPs that won’t shut up and accept the cuts they want to impose, and instead actually stand up for Scotland.
Revenge is a dish best served in Labour Party seats.
is Gord PM?
Alistair Darling, but mostly Gordon Brown, have demeaned decency to a degree that should never be forgotten or forgiven. That a towering politician like Alex should be brought low by such scum is truly frightening. I’m 70 but will stick with the fight.
We bust start building the apparatus that defeated us compete on their strengths take down the media at its core
@bfh pre-menstrual?
Glad to see you back, your right they almost snuffed out the flame but they forgot to squeeze it tight enough. We’re back flickering & a bit unsteadily but we want to glow brightly again with your help
Thanks for being there you always shone a light
Cathy
sorry bust = must
@Jim Thompson – Thanks for the explanation.
I put up a video (this one in fact)
link to youtube.com
to female a work collegue on facebook
The response I got made my blood run cold,
“The first time I have ever agreed with Katy Hopkins john”
Scottish born and bred!
Im closing my facebook account, I cant face any more cringeworthy people talking shite at me!
‘We are legend’
Get those WBB circulating.
Every cloud has a silver lining. The trams are great. Holyrood was buzzing.
Keep the faith
I want us all to be careful. I want and like the idea of a new party, but we must not dilute the vote so that we can truly target these lying scum MPs. It has to have some so-ordination with the SNP and other YES political parties.
i would dearly love to wipe the Slabour party of the face of Scotland as a priority.
Gord is very worried about the1.6 million who voted YES
We’ve all been there Chris, you of all people have NOTHING to apologise for.
This crap from Broon is meaningless self indulgent pap. He has no power.
He’s turning this into a vehicle for his comeback.
davidb says:
You mean, give her the Bird?
@saporian. Exactly how I feel and I will continue to highlight this at every turn.
I wish someone would draw a satirical cartoon with A prominent labour person flanked by a tory and an orange order member. Of course with arms around their shoulders.
Now that would be worth sharing.
The YES campaign should continue until the end, this is not the end it is only the beginning.
YES already has in place a network of volunteers all over Scotland and hopefully over the short coming years it could build up a membership and funds to fight the great fight for our democratic right.
Personally I would like to see YES hubs all over Scotland where like minded people could meet and discuss future tactics These hubs could be café, or even pubs where people would be more than welcome to come and enjoy, not anything too much political, and be informed of what is going on, thus attracting new recruits.
Leave YES as it is now with all the cross party, businesses and the youth in place.
We can use this as our spring board.
Remember folks don’t let them put out your candle, keep wearing your YES badge with pride and don’t them simply put it behind them.
Wings you are the light that shines in dark places, become a beacon of truth for all the disenfranchised, lets break the hold of the NeoCons and lobbyist trouffers in the Uk.
Ever seen these trick candles which cannot be out out?
They just burst into life again, by magic.
We seem to be a bit unsure of what to call the future campaign. “45” doesn’t do it for a lot of us, so until we can agree on a word or slogan, I will be putting the “YES” stickers back on the car and the “YES badges back on the jackets.
We were not defeated, we were conned, AGAIN.
I was in Glasgow City Centre last night, and believe me, the youth of Scotland have finally woken up.
They are up for the fight, because they realise that they were cheated out of their Independence by a bigoted minority and a bias media.
Ananurhing
Over my dead body, A previous poster said we need to mobilise the MASSIVE groundswell of support out in support of SNP and independence supporting parties candidates at the next Holyrood Elections and steamroller Labour out of that place once and for all.
We already have a head start with Labour popularity in freefall,
LETS GET RID!
Christ ; surely Datline Scotland (or somebody)could do vid – sketch about this.
Brown, Darling & Cameron somewhere gloating Salmonds demise and drinking a toast – putting out the candle of ‘Scottish hope’ for it only to relight again and again.
Burny fingers and all that …
Come on what a laugh for the YES folks !!!!
They will never snuff out the candle, enough of the navel gazing. The fight continues….
A friend of mine sent me this in response to Mr Cameron´s thoughts of more “powers”:
The Scots’ once had a referendum,
Dave panicked and said “in addendum,
More powers I vow”,
The Scots all said “wow!”
But then Dave f*cked them over – Hell mend ‘em!
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Has THE VOW timetable been published today yet? Me really looking forward to it as I must have missed it yesterday and Gordon Brown has back in business and he never ever tells blatant lies, ever. Maybe THE VOW timetable is published but its only available for kindle etc.
THE VOW! Lying bastards.
We need to find a way of forging an electoral pact.
This is never easy and I am not coming up with concrete proposals.
The ‘ minor ‘ parties will be asked to keep quiet about policies unique to them and the major party will have to embrace compromise, too.
The general election should have YES candidates supported by all of those parties which worked for the campaign.
Holyrood elections need not do likewise, perhaps.
The process for achieving this?
I am just trying to get myself out of the despondency that has beset me for the last couple of days.
Gordon Brown gets more like the joker every minute. He thinks he has got rid of Alex Salmond. He hasn’t.
I am Alex Salmond
The 45 is ALIVE
what people must also realize WM now have a mandate to do as they will, practically unopposed.
what people must also realize WM now have a mandate to do as they will, practically unopposed.
You need to be careful if you snuff out a candle that way. You can get your fingers burned.
There are fewer NO voters today than there yesterday.
There will be fewer NO voter tomorrow than there are today.
And so, it will go on ……..
With Independence some of these Labour MPs might have been in a job until 2016 but I reckon some will be gone in 9 months. Three of the four areas which declared for Yes are currently run by Labour, including its long-standing strongholds of Glasgow and North Lanarkshire, where Mr Miliband rounded off his Referendum campaigning and where Gordon Brown kicked off his. West Dunbartonshire, another core Labour area, also voted for independence.
Constituencies run by leading Labour lights including Ms Lamont herself, MPs Margaret Curran, Tom Harris, Willie Bain, Frank Roy, Ian Davidson, Anas Sarwar, Gregg McClymont and Tom Clarke, as well as MSPs Jackie Baillie, Paul Martin, Patricia Ferguson and Michael McMahon were amongst those voting Yes.
If we can put support on the streets for the Scottish parliament and deliver a resounding victory for the SNP Greens and socialists we can declare UDI what can they do about it?
we’ll have our mandate.
Croompenstein
eh,
I AM ALEX SALMOND!
link to glawest.org Has anyone been bayonted by Chairchoob yet? Chairchoob was on BBC R4 news last night and he sounded a bit odd really. He was trying to explain why Scottish wastemonster MP’s not being able to vote on English affairs may not be a good thing, for his career. As per, questions like “what is an English affair and what is a Scottish affair” was not raised but propagandists tend not to ask questions that may interrupt their propaganda.
Trident 2 will be an English affair because the Englis do want Trident nukes but they dont want them anywhere nice or English. So how will Westminster deal with that, a Wimbledon umpire maybe, the Royals are keen to keep out of politics by reigning over us so future King Charles III would be a great decider.
So “we the English vote AYE for high speed railways all over England and we the English vote AYE for not Scots oil to pay for it”
Its what better together project fear fought so hard for anyway.
@Kirrieoch
superb, love it.
johnking – a wee I am Spartacus play on Ken500’s post 🙂
I am Alex Salmond!!!
They’ll burn themselves badly trying to snuff us out !
Someone from Quebec posted on twitter during the count asking why it took so long. She said they had a result in two hours, because the votes are counted at the polling stations. Couldn’t understand why we had to send them to counting halls. wonder if that’s deliberate so we can’t find out exact demographics?
Thanks for still being here Stu. I haven’t commented before, but have read all your posts since I found your site. You’ve certainly made me much more aware of reading between the lines and checking ‘what is said’ with ‘what is reported’.
The big candle may have gone out, but there are 1.6 mil small ones to take it’s place, and they burn brighter!
Last Saturday I was so full of hope. Chris’s cartoon says it all. So sad.
But look, Peter Murrell just tweeted this so we aren’t the only ones who feel the need to DO something.
@PeterMurrell: 3,000 new @theSNP members! A wonderful community based Yes campaign now converting into political action. Join them: link to t.co
I am over 65 – well over – and I voted YES. Not all of us were fooled.
It has occurred to me that how can Flower of Scotland be now sung at rugby internationals with a straight face by all those spectators who voted NO?
Anyone know when today’s Orange Walk in Glasgow is meant to be?
Hope it is round about now as it is hosing down and has been for the past 10 minutes. Here’s hoping …
I read on twitter that there are 6 Orange Order marches in Glasgow today!
@GrahamB
There are 6 marches of the OO and similar assorted scum planned.
“Come the next Westminster election in 2015, those Labour MP troughers should be our target.”
The time for action is NOW not next year, the NO Campaign openly deceived the Scottish public over their “missing motion”. I cannot believe that thousands protested at the BBC over Nick Robinson yet are happy to let the NO Camp get away with lies. We need protests and rallies on the streets TODAY.
Saporian 10:05am
Good post. Pretty much summed it up pal.
Scottish Oil Wealth Fund – What Could Have Been
link to caltonjock.com
comment awaiting moderation – that’s probably because of the many URLs in it 🙂
Basically, it’s links to the 2010 general election results covering a few labour seats in Scotland in response to @James Caithness at 10:41am. Took me a wee while to compile so hope Stu manages to release it soon.
Iain Mcwhiter
Westminster is now so obsessed with answering the English Question, they’ve forgotten they haven’t answered the Scottish one yet.
We need parties which identifiably occupy the narrow British political Spectrum from left to right, and can stand together with a united front on the question of independence. exactly like the UK parties did so successfully with the three stooges. The Real Scottish Liberals, The Real Scottish Labour, The Real Scottish Tories even. The SNP is supposed to do that, but only the enlightened understand this, make it simpler, create the three parties above and always present a united front on our one burning desire. The PTB and MSM enjoyed the easy fourth force target and demonising Alex and the SNP. The SNP could continue as umbrella for all enlightened others. We must be SMARTER!
On a separate topic – I see Nick Farage and UKIP have set their eyes on Scotland now
I’m Alex Salmond… and so’s my wife
8 months and counting. Tick tock.
I AM ALEX SALMOND 🙂
@Liz
The OO and UKIP, just made for each other.
The cartoon is accurate. Stuart Campbell’s opinion that there will not be another chance for an indyref in our lifetimes, echoes the feeling of many of us.
For the first time ever, a country committed national suicide in front of a live worldwide audience.
However, when one considers the hardships and deprivations coming Scotland’s way, the passing of that generational cohort who voted 75% NO, and the resentment that is bound to accrue in the wake of the broken promises of constitutional reform, there is grounds for hope.
It is certain that in their vengeful way, the establishment are resolved that having enticed the Scottish dog back into its kennel, they are going to beat it.
That will only serve to further alienate Scots, and coupled with the other factors enumerated above, could increase pressure for a second referendum to an irresistible level.
We could easily see pro-indy opinion poll numbers in excess of those in Catalonia. It all depends on just how cosmically dumb Westminster is prepared to be. I have enormous confidence in their infinite capacity for stupidity.
Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.
Now is when we have to start spotting Westminster positioning itself for our independence.
Keep an eye open for an increase in MoD orders for smaller vessels going to southern yards so that they can begin building their expertise.
Keep an eye open for anything that suggests they are creating the extremely large berths needed for both the new carriers.
Keep an eye open for additional works in any area away from the SE of England that suggests a new home for Trident replacement.
And I’m sure there are a few other litmus tests we can develop.
If any of the above does start to happen, it’s a sign that they KNOW we are serious now.
@Swami Backverandah
Zerohedge has Lord Ashcroft’s data on voter breakdown.
link to zerohedge.com
Postal vote 70 no 30 yes. My. Arse. Rigged.
I’ve voted SNP since I was 18 , that’s 50 years ago! SNP were the only Independence Party and amazing that they got control of Holyrood! Imagine another Independence Party! The Common Weal. There is a great uplifting article on Bella by Robin Mcalpine! We can still do this! Let’s kick the RED TORIES ( labour ) out of Scotland and fill Holyrood with Independence Parties! I recommend reading the article by Robin.
Behold Scotland region’s next FM
link to heraldscotland.com
A lot of CIF praying for SNP collapse at Holyrood and Labour retake their rightful place as rulers of the Scotland region. Then it’s UKOK out of the EU.
i think that somethings can never be said enough.
don’t blame the media become the media.
the fight as ever is for a truly democratic system.
i also read somewhere that it was the UN who stepped in to insist that the UK gov stops it’s delaying and ensures, scotland has a devolved parliament, can any one confirm this?
@john hamill – don’t forget Ian Murray in that list.
I AM ALEX SALMOND
Cameron in trouble.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
‘All the forces of the world are not as powerful as an idea whose time has come’
– Victor Hugo
Totally agree with those saying we should try and unseat Labour and send as many SNP MPs to Westminster as we can but is it now going to be SNP policy not to have another referendum ‘for a generation’ or will they still have it on the agenda as long as there’s enough support for it? Are there any SNP members on here who might know? I’ll vote for them anyway just to get rid of Labour but I just wondered what their position on indy was going to be now.
Mariaskid says:
20 September, 2014 at 10:19 am
I received an email last night from Ed addressing me by name and congratulating us on voting to stay together. He invited me to join the Labour Party in working for a more socially just society.
I declined
i got the same email, i wonder where they got my address
As the promises are broken a fair number of the 55 will increasingly look to their failed politicians and say “throw us a fricking bone here”.
They are the ones that have to deliver promises, they are the ones that set a timetable, they are the ones that said the NHS is safe. They have no hiding place.
Yesterday pain and hurt, today anger. Let them burn their fingers on the flame of liberty that they cant extinguish. Traitors to us all.
Forget about referendums. We need to use elections.
I would like to see Yes Scotland re-brand itself as “Scottish Independence” and fight each seat in future elections with a single agreed candidate, drawn from the member parties, and standing where each party is strong.
For example, Patrick Harvie could stand as “Scottish Independence” in Glasgow’s West End, while Colin Fox stands as “Scottish Independence” in Pollok. SNP candidates would stand as “Scottish Independence” in the SNP heartlands. There would be nothing to stop the individual parties having their own manifestos, as long as they stood on the fundamental principle of Scottish independence.
“Scottish Independence” would have a non-politician leader (I would nominate Lesley Riddoch) which would confuse the media no end 😉
Winning any Westminster or Scottish election to be taken as a mandate for a declaration of independence, as the electorate would literally have voted for Scottish independence.
The rUK would be forced to the negotiating table by this democratic mandate, so we can avoid the difficulties of declaring UDI, whilst retaining that as the ultimate option.
Scotland – Going, Going, Gone … Grouse Beater
“That a command paper will be published by the end of October, that the heads of agreement between the parties and further devolution will come in November and that the draft legislation, the laws that will form the Scotland Bill and eventually the Scotland Act, will be ready by the end of January”
Says rancid old Herald. Actually this does explain why Crash and THE VOW was not published timetable yesterday because it’s all been switched to “heads of agreement” will be published at end of October. So that’s not quite yesterday but at least gives these fraudsters a good dod of time to cook up some weird devo crap.
God only knows what the herald ligger means by heads of agreement between the parties etc will come in November but that’s UKOK bullshit artists I suppose.
Haven’t read all the posts yet, but can I suggest that Chris makes a slight amendment to this cartoon.
There should be a pic of Hamish in the background with a lighter in his hand and a smile on his face.
I am not for giving up. I hope the rest of you will continue too.
I am reminded of the movie scene where everyone shouted “I am Spartacus”. Well let me tell the establishment. I am SALMOND.
Please sign if you have not already done so…
link to secure.38degrees.org.uk
Chris, perhaps you could do another version of this cartoon showing wee Hamish with a box of matches…
On the Scottish MPs not voting on non-Scottish matters – I hope the SNP now change their stance and START voting on them. BT/NOthanks say we’re better together, well, that cuts both ways. We can interfere in their legislation as well. Let’s get the SNP using their votes to help the disenfranchised in England, Wales & NI.
@caz-m.
45 is and always will be a non runner for me as it automatically excludes the other 55% that some of may vote for independence. It alienates right from the outset.
I still have my car sticker on and I still wear my badge, in fact I just took down my YES posters from my house windows this morning.
I am proud of voting YES and I don’t want the tainted no voters to forget they sold out Scotland.
They want to forget and get on as before, but I am determined that will not happen.
s some quarters of society say: wear it loud and wear it proud.
So good on you. Everyone else should do the same.
Got an email from Douglas Alexander, sounds the same as the Miliband one. I’ve joined the SNP.
Just composing my response.
Anyone know who is standing against Jim Murphy in East Ren in May? Willing to offer help.
This is not finished.
I can remember when SNP needed precentage points to reach up to 10 per cent.
On Thursday we were short by only 6 per cent.
Elect SNP to Holyrood in 2016 and sound the knell via a “Unilateral Declaration of Independence”.
ALL those who voted to retain the union, voted for Devo-Max, are already seeing Krash`s VOW to hand new powers to Holyrood by Jan next year – has returned as a Convention – at the end of next year.
“THEY” BOUGHT THE LIES BUT THE REST OF US PAY THE PRICE.
Apprentice Boys of Derry have just walked past my house with two bangs
two bands of the apprentice boys ,it should have read.
What the No camp chose was unknown, unquantified policies imposed from the top down, the very process the democracy movement sought to overthrow.
When the burnt the Saltire last night they also provided the light to relight that candle.
You can’t kill a nation!
I am not for giving up. Far from it. The incompetence and greed of the alliance members will give us the opportunity to have another referendum; sooner rather than later.
The ‘more powers’ whilst quite meaningless, will offer us the stick to beat the No campaign with.
Gordon Brown’s ego trip will also give us another chance.
Thanks Chris, I think!
I certainly felt like crap yesterday, snapping at folk, but feel energised again and keen to carry on.
See a new website started by Indy stream: http://www.yesparty.co.uk
and facebook we are the 45%.
We are beginning again!:)
Jim Thomson re bigger berths for aircraft carriers, that’s already happening I read a link on here ages ago about a dock in Hull being lengthen and bring able to be joined to another in order to accommodate the vessels. We will be asset stripped.
The candle was snuffed out but the candle is still there just waiting to be relit.
schrodingers cat @ 11.32
Starting to feel like the one who gets picked last for the team,
Why didnt I get an email from Mr Ed (the talking horse)? 🙁
Never give up. EVER!
They think they have won…they are sadly mistaken. This is just the beginning. I’ll never stop until our country is free from these lying, thieving cretins.
Chunky Mark Artist Taxi Driver tells us to keep the fight going, brilliant stuff again from Mark.
Yesterday I was down for “8” but today Im on my feet fighting again. just one thing to all the people who are going on about getting 45 SNP Mp’s elected in Westminster.
When we have 45 SNP MP’s we will have at least a 50% plus 1 majority for Independence. Presumably if we can get a huge majority at Westminster then we can also get a huge majority at Holyrood (If it still exists) When we get 50%+1 at Holyrood, then the First Minister should call a vote in parliament to end the treaty of union. Simples.
link to youtube.com
Calgacus, we are on the same side. I have been VERY involved in the campaign and I am VERY unhappy with the result of the referendum. I’m a middle aged bloke who spent much of yesterday spontaneously bursting into tears! However, I attended the postal vote openings, I was present at the count. I WAS THERE as the Wings Referendum Agent.
I can certainly testify that the postal vote numbers were very high and that there was a significant degree of VERY old voters – much higher than I might have suspected. Many of the dates of birth I witnessed during the verification process ranged from 1911 – 1925. However, the signatures for these votes concurred with that of an elderly person, and matched with their application for a postal vote which was often made years earlier.
Now, I’m not going to follow internet conspiracy theories. One thing I must question is the motives that drove a 103 year old to take a decision for millions of people about something they might never actually see themselves. However, it would be a very brave soul indeed who denied that person the vote. I was quite humbled to see that one.
@Kirsty – I think it was A. Salmond who said no referendum for a generation. However I am hoping that the new leader may have another agenda.
Maybe it’s better this way they were trying to guilt trip if we said yes with their don’t leave us we love you plea but by their actions they have left us with no choice indeed forced us to leave We go on until we win.
Caroline Corfield says
“Jim Thomson re bigger berths for aircraft carriers, that’s already happening I read a link on here ages ago about a dock in Hull being lengthen and bring able to be joined to another in order to accommodate the vessels. We will be asset stripped.”
And where are they getting the money from to do it all?
Don’t worry the Scots and their oil can pay for it – light that bloody candle someone…
Next step rout out the useless Labour liars. The feeble fifty. Tories/LibDems already routed. Then another Referendum. 4 years later.
Highlands and Islands are being kept in the Dark. Poor Internet connections. Better connection will be up to speed. Get the WBB circulating now.
I am Alex Salmond
I’m still in a dark place but not as bad as yesterday.
I read that a French newspaper has a cartoon with a Scotsman wearing a kilt and someone saying , he has no balls – don’t know if it was here or on twitter.
Well Europe has nothing to be proud of – they could have supported us in our quest but instead we had a lot of the euros telling you wont get into the EU etc.
Also we tried to request independent monitors of the election but that got no where either.
The 45 have nothing to be ashamed of but they will try very hard to make us feel insignificant.
All the Proud Scots will be subjected to the same derision but with them it’s true.
There are a lot of ideas around at the moment and I hope we will come together to support the big idea.
AS warned us we were up against the dark forces of the establishment and as expected they were very good.
They allowed us hope and then took it away, that was more destructive than fighting against us.
We knew it wouldn’t be easy but I think now we realise that more than ever.
And for all you people linking to MSM newspapers could you please stop. I will NEVER read another MSM paper in my life.
As for GB – I will never in my life understand him and also the Celtic supporting Murphy, Reid etc – what are they about?
Also I don’t know how any self respecting Scots person could attend the England match – you will be treated to dogs abuse
Robert Louis
I agree with you. Trying to work out where to channel my anger at the unionist parties and press who have lied and promised what they are unable to deliver.
A few ideas:
1. No more dilution of the vote – SNP candidates, green party or SSP in appropriate seats.
2. Organised campaigns to destroy the confidence in the complacent lying labour MPs ‘credibility’ in their constituencies. Highlighting their voting records, expenses and the bullshit promises they have made that will never be fulfilled. I have pushed thousands of leaflets through doors and am happy to do so again.
3. We need unity, purpose and ideas. Can I suggest crowd funding a progressive conference for well before the next general election to bring together the range of pro indy groups/parties and form some form of council. We need this to continue as a movement but desperately need to a learn lessons from the failure to win.
One lesson is that we can never let them make it about one man then watch as that man is demonised. We need a broad leadership.
4. The next referendum whenever we get it needs built on more solid foundations to get the elderly on board rather than the absurd and insulting idea that they will somehow just die out. If, as looks likely we lost this on the elderly vote this area needs real attention.
Whether that be a real drive to improve their conditions or simply wake them up. Next time we cannot simply hope to offset the elderly vote. This can be done by helping them rather than hating them for screwing things up for the rest of us.
Let’s not forget that they will feel the austerity agenda keenly – they simply chose to believe the lies about pensions that were peddled.
5. The press. We have to somehow put these unionist rag’s to the sword and much as I think that newspapers are the past, passing a new stand everyday and seeing no propaganda on every front page has been a killer.
Whether that be building on Newsnet Scotland and producing a printed edition, creating something new or buying a failed Scotsman, we can’t be in the same situation next time. Boycott of unionist rags like the herald daily is essential. Ian Bell, Lesley Riddoch and Iain Macwhirter along with the young guard who has emerged can find a new home.
I’m still very raw and nothing I have said is meant as criticism of anyone on the Yes side – I am proud to be part of this and from this great setback our great victory will spring.
link to 78.110.165.228
“Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown was said to have ‘brokered a deal’ with all three London parttes. He said: “We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.”
It now appears as though that timetable has been scrapped.”
No shit Sherlock. So it was all cunning stunt to save the union. Well it worked so can we please start taxing those voted Naw Thanks. Why should I pay for all those Lamontable freebies and handouts to those 2 million that voted against all of it?
We’re all Tories now, red, yellow, green.
We need to wait and see what happens with the SNP, Yes Scotland and the rest of the campaign groups.
Unfortunately as others have pointed out we have handed Scottish politics back over to Westminster. We are also bound to wait and see the outcomes over this course of events.
I know some are keen to rebound, and keep fighting, but at the moment the ‘battle’ is over until we can see something regroup.
New Zealand has just returned its own national party.
Lets buy the the Scotsman it has to be on the market soon, don’t hate the media own it
@X_Sticks
There should be a pic of Hamish in the background with a lighter in his hand and a smile on his face.
Here is Hamish ready to relight the candle.
link to i.imgur.com
I’ve just joined the SNP! Perhaps we should all do this?
I don’t know what all their policies are and I’m sure I’ll disagree with some, but I joined based on the aims set-out in their constitution. I’ve never been a member of any political movement before.
I’m not sure I agree with the name 45 suggesting exclusion of the other 55%, they are more than welcome to join. It’s a rally call, not a gauntlet thrown down. We’re not at war with the 55% but we are in opposition to the Establishment and anyone who perpetuates the lie too wee, too poor, too stupid.
Alexicon says
“I still have my car sticker on and I still wear my badge, in fact I just took down my YES posters from my house windows this morning.
I am proud of voting YES and I don’t want the tainted no voters to forget they sold out Scotland.”
I went out into my garden in the half light this morning, (tipping it down with rain) and took down my YES Saltire, to cat calls and jeers from a nearby no voting neighbour, 1 minute later my other saltire (no yes on it) appeared on the skyline, my neighbour dissapeared back indoors without a word.
Ronnie says
“Apprentice Boys of Derry have just walked past my house with two bangs”
“two bands of the apprentice boys ,it should have read.”
Thank god for that, I thought it was a march past shooting 🙂
I was looking for bullet holes in your shed 😉
3000 new SNP members. It’s happening.
SNP members fund the Party with what they can give (to help others). Unionist Party members join for what they can get. Interest groups.
Unionist support of minority Orange Marches is an affront to democracy. A disgraceful waste of public money. They charge Food banks rent.
My tuppence worth is that we should let the dust settle. I have no doubt Westmonster will do our work for us before the next WM election – its already started. Wouldn’t it be brilliant if the Yes parties could for one election come under a YES Scotland Coalition so there is only one candidate in all Westminster seats. They can retain their own individual party manifestos but work together to drive out the RedTories, and Liberals out of Scotland. No dilution of vote. We could all unite under that for one election only. A mix of candidates could be agreed between the parties.
So how can you square the two? Scots are showing they won’t go on committing their taxes or oil monies to building a London super-state on the global highway for the transnational rich, particularly when it’s becoming unaffordable to their Cockney comrades, driving them out of their own city to the M25 satellites.
That’s Irvine Welsh in the Graun. Thing is the people of Scotland have voted to do all of the above, for safety strength something bigger etc.
One of many UKOK vote no frauds was that Scottish Westminster MP’s pulled England leftward so STAY WITH US but even if that was remotely true, these Labour in Scotland socialists workers that each pocket £200 grand a year, are now going to be excluded from anything to do with stuff what goes down behind the M25. But we vote Naw Thanks for better or worse.
Almost forgot – the BBC. This discredited nest of vipers must be destroyed in Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament needs to table a motion to demand control of broadcasting in Scotland.
We need some way of coordinating cancelling licence fees and crowd funding the SBC.
PQ6? I am undecided on this as I feel we need to go further.
The 1.6 million of us will never forgive the state broadcaster for being the media branch of the no campaign.
Anyone who thinks ‘the 45’ is a good idea deserves to remain as part of a notional 45% minority. To adopt a name based on failure is so bloody sad. The fact it is derived form the official establishment figures released from a possibly rigged vote makes all the more amusing. Its a self fulfilling prophecy of remaining static. It’s a huge boost fot the 55 (the opposing unionist group already set up).
The seeds are already being sewn for another defeat if this 45 thing takes off – just as the SNP have been so bloody stupid for years not to realise the party name in itself (BNP, UKIP et al) has been worth at least 10%-20% to the opponents. Had the vote been closer the name itself could have swayed many undecided voters who hate nationalist parties (and rightly so). Take the bloody weekend off WOSers and think!! It needs a an inclusive progressive alliance to win hearts and minds, not a ‘we voted YES so you NO lot can fuck off’ clique.
In the meantime never forget…
“Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” Joseph Stalin
PS printing that unionist propaganda cartoon sucks as well.
Re identifying marks on ballot paper, there was one of those square barcode type things which I assume can be computer scanned.
@Tartan Tory
Thanks for these sentiments you expressed.
I note the poll where, (in general), the over 60’s voted NO by 2:1.
I also heard a young woman quoting the first time voters as voting 71% for YES and Kaye says
“I’ve got the figures here in front of me, it’s not true it was 51% YES from the Ashford poll”.
“Oh I must have got it wrong” says woman.
Aye right! Kaye must be quoting from the BBC version.
Still wearing my YES badge I don’t want any of my Scottish neighbours thinking I voted NO.
well i aint giving up either just wait for the next general election join the greens and the snp and all the other groups into 1 party then wait for the promises fall through and the no start to feel like they betrayed both themselves and the country and with labour destroyed in scotland they will all flood over to yes bam new referendum in less than 5 years probably not even that long and now we know how to play the game we should demonize the media like they did to us spread smear stories leak scandals show the people that they are PR for the establishment then the banks and the corruption of london show people the lobby groups get people aware how exactly this goverment actually works to undermine them all with the help of the corporate media and tricks them into war after war recession after recession then we will win.
None of us are going to stop trying thats why we will win its only a matter of time or as Wee Eck likes to say a no is only a deferred yes.
Bella has hit the nail on the head.
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
What’s happening with my posts? Once I submit they vanish.
They are not worth the candle.
We have plenty of light and we can see the road ahead and we know just where we are going.
Surely the cartoon should have been a triptych .
First panel the candle of hope being snuffed out.
Second panel Establishment leaving darkened room with candle smoking.
Third panel door closed but candle bursting back into flame of renewed Hope.
Your separatist ‘wings’ have been clipped. You will not fly anywhere.
The British bulldog will see to that.
Time to accept defeat people.
We, the 55, came so close to falling into Salmond’s abyss. We feel like it’s a new dawn. We have been spared the catastrophe.
We do not want a welfare state. We want an entrepreneurial state. We don’t want a country living on hand-outs. We want high-tech centres and young people being supported to go into business.
Your lot wanted a people living on hand-outs. A welfare state. Generations on social security.
You would have bankrupt this nation within 2 years.
55% of voters agree with me.
Rule Britannia.
@alexicon – if you are using google chrome, they take ages to appear.
I’ve switched to ‘e’, ?firefox – and they appear instantly
@Christian
“Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.”
I am so stealing that!
Sorry, I posted on the previous post and didn’t realise this one was here! :
Well, I’ve had a sleep and feel a bit better.
First of all, I agree with everything Fiona said at 11:27am.
I’ve been pondering all night about this – why did we lose? Maybe we were too naive, talking among ourselves, getting carried away. There really was a “silent majority”. Last week, a friend on Facebook who I would have had down as a definite yes, came out with an angry rant about being part of the “bullied” silent majority, going on & on about intimidation, ugly scenes, disgraceful bullying at Pacific Quay etc. He is an intelligent guy yet here he was believing all the media spin. So, that is what we are up against. btw, I was really impressed with Laura Bicker during the count when Carmichael tried to get a dig in about the “disgraceful” Yes campaign intimidating BBC journalists, and she said (paraphrasing): “I really must interject but as a BBC journalist, I have never felt intimidated!”
So, the media (as we all know), is our main enemy. When we start going on & on about bias etc, people just stick us in the “tin foil hat” category. I don’t know how to get round that. The BBC is such a respected institution, even after the Jimmy Savile scandal etc. Even my family, after pointing out bias, alternative sites et, still watch the news and buy the papers and think it’s just me off on a silly rant. I really don’t know how we change that. We could start our own channel or newspaper, but it would take years to become an accepted, believable, credible part of the media. I think we need people already part of it to help with this.
The people I know who voted No, did so because they couldn’t see the need for change, and didn’t want to upset their nice, juicy apple carts. It’s alright us going on about the injustices of foodbanks and the humiliation of ATOS etc, but unless people are down there experiencing it, they fob it off, believing all the Daily Mail style bile. Sad but true. I couldn’t speak to my No voting siblings yesterday. They really could not understand why I was so upset and dejected. It was a loss of hope for me, someone just diagnosed with a chronic, life-limiting illness, terrified at the prospect of another 5-10yrs of callous austerity and the prospect of jumping through ATOS hoops. For them, today is just the same as tomorrow. Nothing has changed for them.
Already people are proclaiming it a victory for democracy, 80%+ turnout!, but if people do not understand nor care enough to see the need for change, that is not a victory for democracy, it is a victory for apathy.
Also, to win, we need to win big. I think 45%, considering where we started from, is an amazing achievement, but even if we had won with 55%, that’s an awful lot of people who would have been horrified & terrified about it the next morning. We still have a lot of work to do, opening eyes & minds. But 45%. That’s amazing. Well on the way. It won’t seem such a scary prospect next time.
So, more positively! I’ve always been political, but never a member of anything. I’m considering joining CND or the Greens. The amount we are about to waste on Trident 2 is utterly immoral, and I want to do everything I can to try and stop that.
I already don’t pay my TV licence, or buy newspapers, sadly stopped buying Tunnocks teacakes, and John Lewis & Asda are now on my list to avoid too. It won’t make much difference sure, but it will make me feel better. I think I may also move my banking to ASB.
I like the idea of us, the 45ers, to begin with at least, in these next few weeks as we lick our wounds and form a plan. However, while I like the name, it is by its nature exclusive and divisive, so not for the long term I wouldn’t think. We have a momentum here, and I don’t think it can be stopped. I’m feeling more positive this morning! 🙂
Well I have got over my huffy strop and am raring to go again. I am about to email my MP and harass him over their (broken already) promise. He will get to know me well over the next few months.
I can’t promise to stop buying newspapers as I have not bought one for years. Don’t have Sky TV but I will start my protest in small ways – bought Scottish cheese instead of my usual English stuff in
Tesco’s today!
One thing I will mention which is annoying me about this site though is numerous snidely comments over the recent months about the more wealthier parts of Edinburgh. I (as do other members of my family) live in a nice part of the city. We all voted Yes and I think one of the mistakes was to concentrate too much on the people living in the housing schemes. For Scotland to thrive as an independent country you need people from all walks of life to buy in to it. I read a comment this morning from someone here that our council tax should go up as a punishment for the No vote – well I may live in a nice area but that does not make me rich! Also my parents in their 80”s voted Yes – please stop tarring everyone with the same brush as it will just alienate people. Blame the politicians and the media – not each other.
@ Tony
I hate to burst your bubble Tony, but 45/55 isn’t what you’d call a convincing majority. I know some staunch BritNats who are already calling for a second referendum if the Westminster promises aren’t kept.
Also, the word ‘separatists’ cannot be used legitamately to describe nearly half a population.
Apols if someone’s already mentioned, and I haven’t read all the comments, but didn’t Salmond say – perhaps in the resignation speech, that there were other ways of achieving independence besides ref’s. Did he mean by a parliamentary majority?
I haven’t been back to check the speech, but I’m always interested in the way things are carefully worded. eg when he said “he” wouldn’t call another indy ref
Thick British Tony the unionist chugger stirs again, I hope and pray you fall on hard times TBT and then you can ask your pals Dishface and IDS to help you out you prick
Yesterday morning when our First minister stood at the podium to give speech, the words on the front of the podium read One Scotland.
That should be the name for a united independence party.
One Scotland
Sorry Gallowglass at 12.01 the fightback starts now and does not include anything other than a drive for normal independence which we nearly achieved on Thursday.
We did not hand the agenda back and we have no intention of giving any serious consideration to any of the tiddly wee plans that will be flung about to divert us away from independence.
NOW
@James
Thanks James, exactly what I wanted. 🙂
Glad to see Carmichael being given a lesson in what right wing nationalism, intimidation and bigotry really looks like by his unionist friends. Good luck with yer new pals Carmichael, Murphy et al.
Conan
“I am so stealing that!”
Too late I saw it first. 🙂
@Tony
Dry boak.
Shouldn’t you be out marching somewhere.
Oh, they got one candle? I hope it wasn’t yours Rev Stu. They still have 1,617,988 more to go, and you know what they say “if you play with fire you’re going to get burnt”. 🙂
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Caroline Corfield
see your point.
but it is about the amazing achievements of the 45.
how about, 45+, doesn’t work does it, because it is a foundation group of the 45.
we build from here on solid foundations.
it can be renamed after independence is won, hopefully 70.
imo it would do no harm to buy the sunday herald.
What we’re still up against in the MSM:-
Only a day after the ‘Vow” was broken, Ministry of Truth (aka BBC) headlining “Brown Promises to ‘Lock In’ Scots Powers”. Also the main item in Radio Clyde news bulletin.
How can a backbench, non-government party MP be able to “lock in” anything?
They really do take us for mugs.
Tony, take your effigy of Britannia and shove her up your arse.
My candle was put out yesterday morning when “Scotland rejects independence” came up in bold red letters on the telly. However after 24 hours of mourning, Alex’s resignation and the thought of no more Wings I found a huge box of matches and my candles burning again. Part of this was Wings is still with us and the thought that BT said all along that independence was one mans vanity project as the Scots didn’t want it. If this was true then this one man took on the whole of the British Establishment, 99% of politicians, every newspaper, TV news producers, big banks, big business, big supermarkets, world leaders, 200 celebrities and the worlds one and only psephologist. Add to that, the shit that was thrown at him for years and he came within 10% of beating them all. If that diznay relight yir candles then you may need another day or twa to find that huge box of matches. We will get them blown out again and again but there is enough of us and there will be more candles burning brighter that ever until our day is here.
There’s a kind of time delay going on with the comments, if you post, sometimes the comment vanishes, but it has still posted, wait a few moments and refresh…you will see it is there. You don’t have to keep reposting, as they will all then show up, no doubt creating a headache for Stu. Just my experience 🙂
link to dailymail.co.uk
Look out tis Duncan Hothersall. These guys knew they had won by 10pm Thursday but why. Good to see Duncan happy and another socialist worker getting hugged by fascists in the Daily Heil too. Is Duncan chosen for great things in the Scotland region? He’s certainly put the effort in.
End of the beginning not beginning of the end!!
My son tells me his friends on twitter, and there are many with many other friends and so on are all really angry and ready to push ahead.
There seems to be a fire in their bellies right now so it should be kept burning.
Whats that noise, oh its ok its just Tonys pals dragging their knuckles through George Square,
hurry up Tony of you double time and stick your sash up your arse you’ll mibbe catch up with them.
Heedtracker says
“Good to see Duncan happy and another socialist worker getting hugged by fascists in the Daily Heil too.”
Probably smiling cos he got a reach aroound. 🙂
If someone got car window stickers with ‘If at first you don’t secede, try and try again” I’d buy one. Be brill to see one on every other car in Scotland.
Same Daily Heil thing with Duncan says “Fairness will keep the UK together” and thats all from William Hague! There is really no depths to this fraud but there is funny bits too. They can say anything they like now, Naw thanks voters gave them full power to do and say anything.
Tony
bankrupt, the UK has £4trl of debt, with a falling GDP of £1.8trl.
productivity per capita GDP is plunging.
the UK is soon to become 4 super counties, with a city of london hub.
so in fact the UK will soon cease to even exist.
that sounds like fun!
Let us remember, “the darkest hour comes before the dawn”
But the dawn always comes.
Nana,
Twitter is absolutely buzzing. It’s revitalising our endeavor with great gusto.
Alive and kicking
55% of voters agree with me.
You have that the wrong way around.
They are not marching to your tin whistle tune.
After being completely gutted and mentally drained, I’m now starting to think this ref. might have been a blessing in disguise.
We’ve gone from 25 to 45%, a huge acheivement even if we wanted more, the ultimate prize.
Leaving aside the hard core 30%, we didn’get indy because too many people were Devo-MAXers or the time isn’t quite ripe folk. They voted to give WM the chance with their “Vow” “Pledge” or whatever. Conned we would say but they made their choice.
They and the Vow are now right in the spotlight and we Yessers are going to make sure they don’t forget it.
WM can’t and won’t deliver on their promises so sooner or later when everything collapses there’s gonna be a lot of disappointed folk out there and ready for persuasion.
I think this process will move fairly quickly and our job is to keep the pressure up and guide them over to YES.
Is there any way a concerted effort can be made to publicly discredit and then oust prominent Labour / Tory / Liberal MSP’s at the next election?
They have to a person lied and have no credibility.
Jim McIntosh,
Excellent. 🙂
@fredblogger and others
I did respond to Tony yesterday so I am not in a position to say this: but really, do not respond to this sad, unmannerly lout. He is the face of misery, as all that kind of unionists are: the only game they know is kick the cat, for they are the lowest of the low, and they know they are
They will never extinguish the candle in our hearts. 😉
On the BBC News channel ticker, “Gordon Brown promises pledges of new powers will be kept”, closely followed by “Westminster parties clash over new powers for Scotland”. Says it all.
“Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.”
Brilliant, what a slogan!
Conan great to see your still in fine fettle!
As for going on, well what the hell would wae do wae oor time anyway, the wife gives me hell when I get under her feet!
BTW everybody, the last hours have just confirmed something for me, nat’s can find more humor, even of the dark kind, in defeat than unionists can find even in their victories.
Best of all, I know that most of it is to help the spirits of other Nats. I don’t know how many times since the result I have been asked, are you alright!
The unionists have no idea, it’s from my fellow Nat’s of all kinds that my hope comes, it is all of you who have relit my candle!
Although i may never meet you, except in spirit, this knackered auld nationalist says thank you friends!
@ john king, he’s a happy boy oor Dunc. But now is the time to make sure that all of these teamGB delights start paying for teamGB.
We cannot possibly accept that same Naw thanks vote continues to take all devo benefits fought so hard for by people like Alex Salmond.
For wealthy naw thanks voters even taking a bus pass is fraud beyond my tolerance levels and I grew up watching much the same BBC UKOK SlabCondem freak show annihilate Scargill and the miners. Duncan’s a shill on the make but its going to cost the 2+million naw thanks vote a lot of money for even more teamGB bullshit, with a hell of a lot less democracy. They voted for him, they can pay for him.
As Duncan would say, to the victor the spoils.