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Keep ’em peeled

Posted on September 19, 2014 by

Now, technically there are still around 20 minutes of the 19th left as we write this, but we’re reasonably sure that Parliament is now closed for the night and as far as we can tell this doesn’t seem to have happened.

vow2a

You’ll let us know if you spot it, won’t you, readers?

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    1. 20 09 14 00:11

      Keep ‘em peeled | FreeScotland

    325 to “Keep ’em peeled”

    1. Ravenholme says:

      W-we were lied to?!

      Surely not!

    2. Claire says:

      To be fair, it WAS published in the Daily Record, so was patently untrue to anyone with half a brain.

    3. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ha!

      It would appear that the Rev. Stuart Campbell is back to his horrible, nit-picking best.

      Huzzah!

    4. TYRAN says:

      None of these dates will happen.

    5. Scotspine says:

      Pity they can’t be impeached!

    6. Zen Broon says:

      Glad to see you back.

    7. Kirriereoch says:

      It´s for things like this that we need you, Rev, to keep going. Westminster has adopted the policy of:

      “We need to destroy the Union to save the Union.”

      Some 10 to 20% of voters in Scotland, those who voted no, must be feeling, well, a little bit annoyed right now.

    8. moujick says:

      This is why we need you Rev Stu!

    9. liz says:

      With all the orchestrated trouble in George Sq now, they are kicking us while we are down. Who in their right mind is allowing OO marches to take place tomorrow.

    10. awayanbileyerheed says:

      Hold Westminster to their Vow! If they break it we have every right to take a petition to the 1.6m people who voted Yes including myself and demand a referendum. The Vow was promised on the back of No. If they break their end of their bargain. It will certainly NOT be once in a generation referendum it will be next Year! I have never known people to be so motivated and touched as those in this campaign, lets get the ball rolling!

    11. Scott Nicoll says:

      Very true my friend. Keep up the good work as it is appreciated.
      Shades of Ireland 1916/21 post referendum, could worry most but should worry all!

    12. Marjory Stewart says:

      I don’t want to be in a position of I told you so as I want Scotland to prosper. I want to help determine Scotland’s future and will assist in any way I can. Let’s do it for the 55% who didn’t dare.

    13. MochaChoca says:

      The OO are rubbing their hands at the prospect of a new section of society to direct their hate at.

    14. Macbeda says:

      Welcome back Rev.

      How well spotted.

    15. Kalmar says:

      The rioters are over from NI, on hand in case of a Yes vote. But they’re out of control and want to have a fight before they get back on the ferry.

      So I’m told.

    16. Scotspine says:

      Is there a mechanism for the public to impeach these liars?

    17. Albaman says:

      Rev,
      Where or what is this logo doing the rounds —-45— indicating I was one of the 45% who voted yes! could this be “our”new badge, because the way things are shaping up at Westminster , the skirmish may be lost, but the battle may be just before us.

    18. fred blogger says:

      cameron claimed that devo-devoid-max is a meaningless process

      tweeted by bbc’s james cook
      “Alex Salmond says when he asked David Cameron about the timetable for more powers, the Prime Minister said it was a meaningless process.” they certainly moved fast on their promised VOW.

    19. Stoops says:

      Midnight. That’s a fail then. At least there aren’t riots in George Square though!

    20. Jeannie says:

      Yay Stu – you’re back! I’ve been licking my wounds today but I’m back as well. Still got a lot of work to do.

      I have a plan as well – cancel BBC licence fee, close RBS account, move Standard Life policy. No more shopping at John Lewis or B&Q. Give business to Aldi and Lidl. Check CBI site for members and avoid using any companies that are members. Have also asked Business for Scotland if they could maybe give their members some sort of logo so I’d know who they were if I’m looking to buy goods or services, as these are the kinds of companies that will help the Scottish economy to grow and create jobs – not afraid of change. Will maintain current practice of not buying newspapers apart from Sunday Herald.

      Voting with a pen didn’t work, so voting with my feet instead. I’m back and this time it’s personal!

    21. James123 says:

      Pro-Union thugs on the rampage tonight in Glasgow, the BBC headline “Police Separate Rivals in Glasgow”.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/

      BBC you dirty lying bastards.

    22. Jaffa McNeill says:

      Come on, nobody believed this vow shite for a second, any professional politician could bury it in committees in a fortnight. What’s that you say, 12 hours? Give the man an extra special duck house.

    23. bookie from hell says:

      need a huge rally outside daily record,showing sept 19th ("Tractor" - Ed)s

    24. Stephen McKenzie says:

      Best out of three.. err maybe not

    25. heedtracker says:

      Lying bastards. Delivering the best of both worlds for the Scotland region. Keep it coming WoS!

    26. joe kane says:

      How the referendum was stolen.

    27. Valerie says:

      Scotsman are reporting it as SDL in George Sq, but they have small numbers, so bolstered by Irish and defo English from BNP and Britain First

    28. gillie says:

      Stupid bastards vote for lying bastards – situation normal.

    29. twister says:

      Wait for it …
      The parliamentary process is inaction …

    30. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29288249 Oh look these other lying bastards left out the unionists marching with nazi salute wrapped in union jacks and singing rule Britannia in from Glaswegians out for drink. Why would the BBC in Scotland leave out reporting unionists and their nazi salute.

    31. Scotspine says:

      Lets get the wheels back on and make this an unstoppable juggernaut!

    32. Andrew Coulson says:

      The big question is whether No voters — my fellow elderly English persons, for example — will care greatly if and when the vow is broken. If so,then a referendum rerun might just be possible before too long. If not, not.

    33. alexicon says:

      Let’s keep YES going.

    34. JakeDM says:

      Well said Jeannie! Share your findings and let us know how you get on!

      J

    35. liz says:

      eE will never win anything without media impartiality.

      I only joined twitter to keep up to date with indy ref events but there is so much misinformation out there re what is happening in George Sq, I think I will have to quit as it is being reported that ‘rival groups’ are fighting.

      What I do know is I have gone from disliking, not trusting Lab Scotland to absolutely hating them

    36. Kid Spotlight says:

      ‘..this doesn’t seem to have happened.’

      Because Westminster was too busy ushering through the ‘gagging law’ – restricting criticism of the government in the 12 months running up to an election – which came into full effect on the 19th September.

      http://www.scvo.org.uk/long-form-posts/transparency-of-lobbying-non-party-campaigning-and-trade-union-administration-act/

      http://rt.com/uk/189112-gagging-act-uk-undemocratic/

    37. kininvie says:

      That’s better! I’ve hated the self pity of the previous threads.

      Wingers don’t do defeat.

      Hold their toes to the fire over the ‘Vow’

      Join in with #the45

      Read http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/19/wipe-your-eyes-on-your-feet/

      Put some iron in your souls.

    38. Edulis says:

      Alex Salmond dealt with the defeat graciously and in his usual statesmanlike fashion. Me, I am just angry that we have been deceived and rolled over. A good proportion of Devomaxists swallowed the line of more powers if they voted’no’.

      That vow was presented as a timetable but it broke the rules of purdah because it was a new initiative in the middle of the campaign during the regulation period. Of course the insipid EC will do nothing about it but it just shows perfidious Albion in all it glory.

      So we have to keep up the pressure and re-group around the next opportunity next May in the 2015 election.

      The 1.6 million should put party affiliations aside and support the only viable challenger in FPTP elections i.e the SNP. The SNP should go into that election seeking a mandate for independence, shaming the Labour Party for having deceived them and calling the Gordon Browns, the Jim Murphys, the Jimmie Hoods to account for their gross deception.

      Let’s do it. It would be much easier than winning a referendum.

    39. Gordon Innes says:

      I know we said take a short break – but I did expect it to last more than one day!

      But I do see with everything unravelling faster than could ever be believed that someone has to do the Media’s job for them.

      Back on the bike 😉

    40. bookie from hell says:

      Scotland2014

      Andrew Wilson –SNP

      1st promise on leaflet not fulfilled

      forgive them their tired——OUCH

    41. fred blogger says:

      we’re on our own now, 1.6m+ human beings united in achieving social justice for all.

    42. Liz says:

      Read somewhere that parliament in recess at moment!

    43. Robert Bryce says:

      Rev,
      O/T but has to be said. You played an absolute blinding part in delivering a 45% yes. Stick with it and add another 10% to that and we can finish the job.

      Yes is re-organising as I type.

      I’m ready for another crowd fund if it’s required!

    44. Scotspine says:

      Anyone have any thoughts on a future crowdfunded Scottish Bank and proposal for our own currency in the event of achieving independence? There would be no spat over the pound and they could keep their debt.

    45. heedtracker says:

      BBC R4 propaganda news had a lot of this grot but they somehow forgot all about THE VOW timetable too. Surely not diverting already in just the first day of this new world devo order BBC.

      So now apparently within 24 hours, Condem’s think devo for England can hurt UKIP with Scots MP’s excluded from English voting BUT Miliband wants it all pushed away for another a year or five. Funny how things work out.

    46. Weecopey says:

      Have been ashamed tonight, the yes people had a party with singing and dancing then Scotland bottled and voted no and we have riots in Glasgow with people getting knifed, better together I THINK NOT!!!

    47. heedtracker says:

      I want council tax hiked on middle class Scotland. They saved the union and its now time they pay for their union. Either that or we wait and see if Labour in Scotland do actually bump up middle class council tax like what they’ve been screaming for over the last 7 years. Their next Holyrood manifesto’s going to be a hoot.

    48. Votadini Jeannie says:

      @Caesar!man

      The 45 logo comes from this Facebook group, set up for we 45%.

      https://www.facebook.com/wearethefortyfive?fref=ts

    49. Kid Spotlight says:

      @Edulis

      ‘So we have to keep up the pressure and re-group around the next opportunity next May in the 2015 election.’

      The pressure should be on every date (including yesterday) promised for the much vaunted timetable for change. The No campaign effectively became devo-max lite to win a mandate, and now that ‘vow’ needs to be enforced (whether you believe the promise or not).

      As the Rev points out, wtf happened to the 19th September promise? AS has resigned, and he should be chief enforcer, does this means he steps back? Will NS go after this issue instead? Either way unless the electorate holds all politicians concerned to account in this shabby deception then it will only get worse.

    50. James says:

      Alex Salmond is a very, very clever man. He knew currency union was a gamble. But he also knew launching a Scottish currency in this first-time referendum would have been an even bigger gamble. If this campaign had started with a baseline of 40%+ Yes…different ballgame. But we were coming from deep – circa 25%. The fears, barriers, and reasons to say No for our majority Scottish-not-British upper working and middle classes were legion. I don’t need to repeat them here. But Salmond knew that even though most Scots are proud of their identity they have several generations of political dogma and baggage saying “naw Yir nuts don’t do it…you’ll be skint”.

      Sterling, for the English, is a symbol of national pride, of sovereignty, of independence (from Europe). For the Scots it is a symbol of security and stability. Salmond knew that to reach out beyond the converted he had to maintain a sense of little change whilst everything changes. He so nearly succeeded. Now imagine he had asked first-timers to subscribe to a Scottish currency? He’d have taken the converted and then got up to but not beyond 35%. From day one he’d have been killed on risk, unknown entity, money market mash-up, and that £0.5bn transaction costs to Scottish businesses.

      However, the game has changed. A minimum 45% of Scots have found their bottle. That’s a whole different baseline to start from isn’t it? I have not talked to anyone who says “I went Yes but happy its a No”. How many late converts have you spoke to who say “wish I had come round months ago”. The last two years have seen the core nearly double. The barriers overcome are legion. The soft-No now the target; and many will be aggrieved. These people are not fools nor are they ("Tractor" - Ed)s. They are our kin who made a difficult decision in good (blind) faith…a soft No is just a Yes waiting to be released.

      There’s around 20% of the pop who are a lost cause. Some are in George Sq tonight. They are lost cause Brit to the core. But the other 30-35%? They belong to no one side in particular. They are Scots in need of reassurance. This referendum was a testing ground. A training camp of ideas and persuasion. Next time? A Scottish currency is on the cards. We’ve got our 45% who’ll be prepared to back it. They ain’t going back. Late converts are like ex-smokers. They have become vociferous advocates. We’ll have fewer policy hostages to Pax Britannica. Alastair and his acolytes won’t know what’s hit them. They think they were nearly steamrollered by a grassroots campaign this time..?

      So, yes, Alex is a clever, clever man. Perhaps he always knew this time was about bringing us up to the line. Giving us a platform. He’s stepped out the way. His commitment to “once in a generation” leaves with him. He knew they’d shaft us. He knows the soft No will be as angry as the 45. He’s paved the way for a tsunami ground campaign unmediated by the SNP. I am up for fight. When do we begin

    51. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29271768 Weeks a long time in the BBC. This Tory ligger marches on to job for life better together glory and the FM he heckled and lied about to the whole of teamGB…

    52. h_johnny says:

      Sunday Herald building set alight too, the only building to support independence. Not sure if fully on fire.

      EDL/BNPSDLBritains First/Loyalists all out to cause as much damage as possible. People on my social media saying well sky said both sides are rioting so it must be true. Yes were attacking skinheads too.

      We now live in a country where people defend that scum(media defend it too). Lost cause.

    53. David McCann says:

      The fight will not be over until we get independence. I have been part of this movement for the last 44 years and intend finishing the job, especially as I have just learned that my lifelong friend Iain MacCormick passed away at 10pm 19th September 2014, the day after he cast his vote for Scotland.
      RIP Iain.

    54. h_johnny says:

      *paper not building sorry.

    55. jules says:

      So it’s taken 1 day to break their first promise. I’m astonished.

      We need WoS and the rest – now more than ever. We only need to persuade another 200,000 to change their minds and we’re there. The more this ‘vow’ disintegrates, the more it is scrutinised by the likes of WoS, the less mandate the union has.

    56. Fairliered says:

      Rev, I thought you were giving up the blog.
      Thank fuck you haven’t. We need you to be with us in the fightback.
      I have some respect for the tories. They are upfront with their views, even though they are not in accordance with mine.
      As for the labour party, they have proved – again – that they are the enemy of Scotland. They are Quislings who deserve the enmity of all Scots, apart from their own misguided scotbut supporters. The SSP, Greens and SNP should work together to eradicate them from Scotland. Smallpox has been eradicated, so SLAB are now the most evil virus left on Earth. Let’s work together to destroy the stain on democracy that is epitomised by Murphy, Wilson, Reid, Davidson, Lamont, Curran and the rest of the anti Scottish bastards that have infected Scotland’s body politic with their corrupt, evil, self serving shite.

    57. James123 says:

      A few years ago we were told 25% of Scots supported independence, then that went up to a third and now its almost a half, anyone spot a trend?

      Fuck this once in a generation bullshit, we can’t sit idly by as we get lumbered with yet another Tory government we didn’t vote for, broken promises about further devolution, more cuts to services and benefits to the poor and being voted out of the EU by the right wing of England.

      I say we keep fighting, firstly we target SLAB and get as many of them voted out of power as we can, then we get another referendum on the table as soon as possible.

      We can do it, all we need to do is start.

    58. T222deracha says:

      According to the Electoral Commission, “the UK Government is not legally bound by purdah like the Scottish Government, but they have PROMISED to honour it.”
      They have lied about purdah, got away with it, guess how any of their other promises will be?. They have absolute power and they KNOW it. The Referendum was a chance to give power back to the Scottish people. I think those who voted NO, could not care less about any new powers and really are happy to be bossed about like brainless sheep.

    59. Kirsty says:

      Glad you’re sticking with us, Rev. Stu (maybe) – to be fair, things are far to interesting at the moment to leave. I’ve written to my MP and MSP about this. Will let you know if I ever get a response.

    60. creag an tuirc says:

      on a more positive note, Westminster will let us the pound now, phew 🙂

    61. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I can’t locate the comment, but someone urged us all to join a group, right now.

      Do it.

      Find one that suits you.

      Keep this movement going. Make it stronger.

      We have no option.

      If you want to join the SSP, message me:

      ian [at] stevenston4 [dot] fsnet [dot] co [dot] uk

      I’ll give you contact details for joining, or answer any question…whatever.

      Please – join WFI, LFI, SNP, RIC, SSP, whatever, but DAE SUMTHIN!!

      This is the real deal folks – we act now, to retrieve what ‘Scotland’ represented 48 hours ago, or we lose her, and ourselves, forever.

    62. Betty Craney says:

      O/T my daughter has just posted a picture that the Herald building is on fire..anyone know more on this ?

    63. Geoff Huijer says:

      RIP Ian MacCormick – I never knew you but it feels lie you were family.

      I have never felt closer to my fellow Scots (the 45) and yet so alienated from the others (the 55%).

    64. kennyboy says:

      Let’s take on Westminster spread the word we need to start a new political party we can’t let them beat us we tried voting they cheated us it’s time to rise

    65. schrodingers cat says:

      this discussion has crystalised a few ideas in my head, ive been too upset to think straight all day, but i have an idea…….the rbs, my morgage provider moves on monday, my bbc licence gets cancelled, supermarkets who supported no can fuck themselves, the yes movement created something bigger than the snp, and we have power
      lets use it

    66. cearc says:

      I think that in view of the ‘gagging act’. All the various yes groups should seriously consider registering as seperate political parties and put up candidates both for the UK election (not much commitant as it would be near impossible to get elected) and for the SG regional list.

      This would circumvent the non-political party campaigning restrictions.

    67. schrodingers cat says:

      no new political parties
      this is a grass roots organisation
      yes scotland lost control of it years ago

      but we do have power, lets use it
      1. the bbc
      2. the supermarkets
      3. the banks.
      4. any business who supported no

      if we can organise an entire new media system to replace the old
      we can organise this too?

    68. a2 says:

      Closed? it never even opened.

      “The House of Commons will be in recess from Saturday 13 September. The House will next sit on Monday 13 October 2014.”

      further , try following the link from the bbc report, while you still can http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29199405 – page removed!

    69. dadsarmy says:

      The thing is of course that it should not be up to us 45% to make the Westminster establishment keep its promises on more powers, this is not what we voted YES for. We vote YES for Independence and ALL powers.

      It is for the 3 unionist parties that stood up for a NO vote, on the basis of more powers, and all the campaigners and activists for NO who spread the word, and the 55% of people who voted for their preferred version of Scotland to follow up on these promises, to force their leaders to follow up on these promises, and if not, it is for the 55% of people to stand up and say:

      “We voted NO on the basis of promises that have not been delivered. We now demand another referendum on Independence”.

      I’m sure us 45% would support such a call for another Referendum. Real soon.

    70. Paula Rose says:

      Seems to me honeys that we are back in the air – we can do it, win it for Scotland.

    71. schrodingers cat says:

      i suggest
      bbc first

    72. Clarinda says:

      Can’t wait for Burns Night (fourth ‘vow’ down) when we get a “Scottish Bill” ready to voted on by a UK Parliament. So not just the haggis being stuffed on the 25th January?

    73. schrodingers cat says:

      oddly enough, i really did get a phonecall from bbc scotland this morning, my wife answered the it and handed the phone to me, dougie vipond wanted to do an film about scottish heritage fruit trees and wanted to interview me in the community orchard in newburgh. i very politly said i wouldnt piss on bbc scotland if it were on fire and put the phone down
      probably not the best moment for the bbc to phone me

    74. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @schrodingers cat

      heres a worthwhile grass roots mag initiative

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-a-free-fearless-news-service-4-scotland

    75. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      The BBC still lying away not reporting the OO thugs and the complete collapse of the “VOW”/lies from the three westminster party leaders.

      Let’s not just make this about the referendum though.

      There are thousands of victims of Jimmy Savile who was in the BBC employ for some 40 years. Speak up for them and remind everyone that corruption in the BBC is nothing new.

      Speak up for those who believed the BBC lies over Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.

      The BBC do not report the plight of the poor, the vulnerable and the disabled being attacked by this vile tory government. Speak up for them.

      Do not let a corrupt elite media set the agenda any longer. Examine the pay and the political allegiance of the BBC trust and tell everyone you know of the lies they have spread in order to keep their westminster masters happy.

    76. Albamac says:

      Last three comments lost in white php-space.

    77. I would like to know how to start a facebook page and a twitter page?

      James Caithness45

    78. Albamac says:

      That one didn’t, so pointless posts win 5-0. 🙂

    79. Kirsty says:

      Schrodingers Cat,

      I completely agree – I’ve actually been doing what you suggest for a while now – I told the BBC to do one, I’ve not been buying a paper (Sunday Herald excepted), I moved my money and since the supermarket bosses opened their yaws I’ve been shopping elsewhere. I honestly think that boycotting the media and companies who tried to bring us down would be the single greatest thing we could all do right now to make our point and it’s very easy to do – just go somewhere else.

      I do think it relies on not just not buying their products/shopping in their stores but also writing to their CEOs and telling them why we’re not shopping there. There are enough of us that we could make a real difference if we all got together and did it. I think losing the “blue” pound could make a big difference to them.

    80. kininvie says:

      I suggest Twitter Wingers coalesce around #the45 for the time being. Looks the most popular revivalist grouping.

      IMO, don’t be in any hurry to sign up to political parties, (despite that sneaky Ian Brotherhood’s enticements 🙂 ) A lot of our strength is drawn from the fact that many Wingers are NOT members of any party. Dilute that too much, and it makes us open to attack.

    81. schrodingers cat says:

      @James Caithness
      calm
      lets use this blog to decide the forward path, when we have rested and the discussed, i will create any facebook page you want
      we are social media in scotland remember

    82. schrodingers cat says:

      lets attack the bbc first
      videos of licences being burnt would be a start

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @kininvie –

      I don’t want to come over all ‘Paula Rose’, but you wouldn’t deny a man an opening, would you? (;))

    84. Paula Rose says:

      Oi Smut on Off-Topic!

    85. well I would just like to know.

      All my life there was two sides to Glasgow – Rangers and Celtic, Protestant and Catholic and to some extent this was evident in the whole of North britain.

      Watching the behaviour of of this bunch of fascists from the Rangers support, the orange order, the Ulster Orangemen making Nazi salutes in Glasgow, what does the those Celtic supporting Slab voters think now?

      In fact, I thought we were winning against bigotry. We are not. I am currently looking around the world where my wife and I can afford to live. I now know what a refugee means.

    86. So glad to have Wings back providing a place buzzing now with ideas and dedicated to ensuring that 45% moves to over 50%. Wings and the other online pro-indy sites provide a meeting place to nurture ideas. Without them, and their work in helping spread news, links, videos, there would have been no grassroots surge. We need their ongoing presence and information to make the next one possible.

      Television has remained off today. On the internet you can chose what to read and watch. Some way needs to be found of making our pro-indy sites sustainable for the next push. BBC has been disgraceful, and circumventing that is going to prove challenging, but a start has been made. Wings helps make much possible. Without it we would be crying in the dark.

    87. msean says:

      Never believed them anyway.

    88. @schrodingers cat – I would welcome help to make a facebook page. Thank you.

    89. Anne says:

      Like everyone else on here I am distraught at the outcome. But if nothing else the campaign has reinforced my distrust of Westminster politicians and opened my eyes to the vested interests of the media. I have learnt that the Guardian is made of base metal, and sees the world through London tinted glasses (Libby Brooks and George Monbiot being rare exceptions). I see that the comment forums are already full of a ‘let’s get Scotland’ narrative of the sort exemplified by the orange men in Glasgow last night. I am proud to have voted yes and I fear for the future. Please keep wings going Stuart – we need you more than ever.

    90. Molly says:

      Anne, a hard lesson but I reckon the 70% of youngsters who voted yesterday have also just learned about our media .

    91. Colin says:

      In the run up to the general election and the scottish election, Im not going to be promoting anyone, I’m going to be demoting those standing for office that lied to us.
      I will canvass every voter in their constituencies if I have to, I will put a leaflet through every door exposing their lies.
      The people that lied to us and stole our independence and have now lied again should not be allowed to hold public office.

    92. Capella says:

      Our new chant:
      What do we want?
      Extensive new powers.
      When do we want them?
      The timetable agreed.

      Why don’t we start the process of drawing up a shopping list of extensive new powers as the three leaders have missed the deadline. I’d quite like the power to raise all taxes and revenues in Scotland then remit to Westminster whatever we think right to cover defence or whatever. Swiss cantons do that.

    93. Rock says:

      Scotspine,

      “Is there a mechanism for the public to impeach these liars?”

      In the most corrupt political system in the world?

      No chance.

    94. a2 says:

      Just popping out to post my letter to my mp asking why the first point has not been honoured and what she intends to do about it and the other points on behalf of those who voted no due to those promises, probably have no effect but someone will have to read it and write a reply.

    95. a2 says:

      sigh… we didn’t convince the conservatives who vote SNP because they don’t want to vote Labour but don’t vote tory cos they don’t think their vote will count, there’s more of them than you think and they haven’t noticed that The SNP are to the left of labour.

    96. crisiscult says:

      just back from the Stuart Cosgrove touted Yes provan bash. Big turnout celebrating our big yes vote. Great news is that no one is broken. We are convinced the fight goes on.

      Rev Stu is a popular man, followed by a good few shouts for Russell Brand!

    97. kennyboy says:

      We are not finished yet we the true Scots will triumph just don’t give up guys we can still set Scotland free only this time we will have to get nasty

    98. Rock says:

      We have had a day to reflect but the fight for independence continues. We are NOT going to wait for a generation.

      A very public and massive boycott of the BBC should now be the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. They destroyed our hope for a fair society, we must destroy them in Scotland starting NOW.

      And for heaven’s sake, DON’T buy a newspaper in Scotland, not even the Sunday Herald because by buying it we sustain its poisonous sister paper published 6 times more per week.

    99. Anne says:

      This should also be a moment for the Green Party to come to the fore in Scotland. I do hope it rises to the challenge.

    100. hetty says:

      Anne
      the green party have been inundated today with folk signing up to them. As have the snp, I am seeing this on fb, it is now a different polutica, climate in Scotland, that can only be a good thing.
      Well done to all who have remained and do keep positive, we sunk into deep sadness today, my son especially. He needs something to look forward to, still YES for Scotland…sleep well all.

    101. Albamac says:

      @Molly

      I reckon the 70% of youngsters who voted yesterday have also just learned about our media

      That, for me, is the biggest betrayal of all. We lit their fire and the Unionists pissed on it.

    102. Capella says:

      @a2 link from your bbc page introduces Lord Smith of Kelvin who has been appointed to “oversee the process of devolving more powers to Scotland. ” Turns out he was a BBC governor and chair of Weir Group etc
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29273177

    103. hetty says:

      Anne
      the green party have been inundated today with folk signing up to them. As have the snp, I am seeing this on fb, it is now a different political, climate in Scotland, that can only be a good thing.
      Well done to all who have remained and do keep positive, we sunk into deep sadness today, my son especially. He needs something to look forward to, still YES for Scotland…sleep well all.

    104. Alex Clark says:

      Thepnr has retired. The point of no return is past.

      I will from now on be posting under my real name, I have nothing to fear and as has been proven fear is the establishments greatest weapon.

      It’s been hard for me and I’m sure all of you to take the pain we experienced yesterday. We need to now put that behind us.

      Who knows when we may get another chance at Independence, my thoughts though are that this is not the time to lie down and take the kicking. More like the time to stand up and show what we are capable of.

      There is much yet worth fighting for, I doubt I need to spell it out.

    105. Kevin Evans says:

      Great to see ideas flying around but we need a leader (I suggest stu) to focus these ideas and take them on one by one with a clear vision to move forward

    106. James S says:

      After witnessing the deplorable scenes in Glasgow last night and discovering RT (Russia Today) were the only ones covering it live, this really does not surprise me.

      To say I am furious with the result is an understatement.

      Most of the 65+ year old who voted with the establishment will probably experience the sharp end first with the NHS services imminently becoming part of Branson’s empire. They may not get the full extra 13 years of life.

      As someone with a young family and a brother that married a non-EU citizen I am appalled at the whitewash being given to the result. Now it looks likely that I will have to move to Eire or Netherlands so my nephew and niece stand a chance to get a British passport.

      A colleague at work is Pakistani and married a Polish girl. It looks likely their children will have a passport before someone born in Edinburgh who married someone from Hong Kong.

      These knock-on effect might be part of something to turn young against old, so the oral histories I’m sure we’ve all grown up with can be diminished further.

      With the propaganda machine in full swing 45:55 seems incredible, my good lady, who was a solid no before showing me this site and asking me how these scandalous claims could be checked is, the one who suggested moving.

      Already the TV license is cancelled and our local paper shop will see their sales decline further.

      Thanks to Stuart and the other sites he helps publicise we have become more active and engaged in holding the news to a standard we thought they claimed to have.

      19th – Missed. Letter already sent to MP and MSP. Physical letter, signed for.

      Shawshank Redemption on getting new books for the library – write a letter a day to demand answers and hold them accountable.

      One letter a day hold them accountable.

      A physical reminder may be the only way.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shawshank_Redemption#Plot

    107. James S says:

      After witnessing the deplorable scenes in Glasgow last night and discovering RT (Russia Today) were the only ones covering it live, this really does not surprise me.

      To say I am furious with the result is an understatement.

      Most of the 65+ year old who voted with the establishment will probably experience the sharp end first with the NHS services imminently becoming part of Branson’s empire. They may not get the full extra 13 years of life.

      As someone with a young family and a brother that married a non-EU citizen I am appalled at the whitewash being given to the result. Now it looks likely that I will have to move to Eire or Netherlands so my nephew and niece stand a chance to get a British passport.

      A colleague at work is Pakistani and married a Polish girl. It looks likely their children will have a passport before someone born in Edinburgh who married someone from Hong Kong.

      These knock-on effect might be part of something to turn young against old, so the oral histories I’m sure we’ve all grown up with can be diminished further.

      With the propaganda machine in full swing 45:55 seems incredible, my good lady, who was a solid no before showing me this site and asking me how these scandalous claims could be checked is, the one who suggested moving.

      Already the TV license is cancelled and our local paper shop will see their sales decline further.

      Thanks to Stuart and the other sites he helps publicise we have become more active and engaged in holding the news to a standard we thought they claimed to have.

      19th – Missed. Letter already sent to MP and MSP. Physical letter, signed for.

      Shawshank Redemption on getting new books for the library – write a letter a day to demand answers and hold them accountable.

      One letter a day hold them accountable.

      A physical reminder may be the only way.

      Image a few hundred thousand letters each day inside various offices.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shawshank_Redemption#Plot

    108. James S says:

      After witnessing the deplorable scenes in Glasgow last night and discovering RT (Russia Today) were the only ones covering it live, this really does not surprise me.

      To say I am furious with the result is an understatement.

      Most of the 65+ year old who voted with the establishment will probably experience the sharp end first with the NHS services imminently becoming part of Branson’s empire. They may not get the full extra 13 years of life.

      As someone with a young family and a brother that married a non-EU citizen I am appalled at the whitewash being given to the result. Now it looks likely that I will have to move to Eire or Netherlands so my nephew and niece stand a chance to get a British passport.

      A colleague at work is Pakistani and married a Polish girl. It looks likely their children will have a passport before someone born in Edinburgh who married someone from Hong Kong.

      These knock-on effect might be part of something to turn young against old, so the oral histories I’m sure we’ve all grown up with can be diminished further.

      With the propaganda machine in full swing 45:55 seems incredible, my good lady, who was a solid no before showing me this site and asking me how these scandalous claims could be checked is, the one who suggested moving.

      Already the TV license is cancelled and our local paper shop will see their sales decline further.

      Thanks to Stuart and the other sites he helps publicise we have become more active and engaged in holding the news to a standard we thought they claimed to have.

      19th – Missed. Letter already sent to MP and MSP. Physical letter, signed for.

      Shawshank Redemption on getting new books for the library – write a letter a day to demand answers and hold them accountable.

      One letter a day hold them accountable.

      A physical reminder may be the only way.

      Image a few hundred thousand letters each day inside various offices.

    109. Kirsty says:

      Alex Clark (Thepnr)

      I’ll probably sound like a patronising ass saying this (sorry if I do) but I’m so glad you’ve decided to stay on this site and keep going. Let’s at least try to get those mendacious, lying public servants of ours to fulfil their promises. I’ve emailed my MPs/MSPs asking why we haven’t had our timetable of future powers. I don’t expect an answer (I’m stuck with Willie Bain and Paul Martin, unfortunately) but if I get one I’ll let you all know. If I don’t; I’ll let you all know. Let’s keep pushing ahead.

    110. Albamac says:

      Don’t know what’s going wrong. Posted a comment and got a 503. Tried again and got a duplication warning – “looks like you’ve already said that”. Well, if I did, WP is keeping it secret.

      So, that makes seven comments tonight and all a waste of time. Ever get the feeling that your voice isn’t being heard? Feels like I’m stuck in a time-warp. 🙁

    111. D Grant says:

      I voted Yes. Scotland 45% Scots 55% Wimps

    112. MikeH says:

      We really need to set up media controlled by the Scottish goverment in the way the Bbc is controlled by Westminster. We need to look at Catalonia in that way. Catalan goverment controlled media (TV3, Catalunya Radio, etc) add a huge amount of balance to the debate.
      Living abroad has been frustrating knowing I couldn’t help out other than small donations to Yes Scotland, and I was hammered by that result. But after seeing the scenes in Glasgow tonight I’m convinced lot’s of No voters will be thinking about their vote. So when we get shafted again by Westminster I’m hoping lot’s of people on the No side shall open their eyes.

    113. Kirsty says:

      Caesar!mac,

      The insomniac shift is here and we’re receiving you fine! x

    114. liz g says:

      Welcome back you lot
      You have been [understandably] off topic shall we say
      For LESS than a day

      Thought you might like to know that my daughter’s uni pal’s have also started to plan another push and are all taking the view this is not over.

      The friends and family I have spoken to today are also on board [once they stopped greetin] they started to share information and opinion online, as the day went on
      and the George Square thing kicked off the determination set in.

      So for what it’s worth IMHO I cant see our young people being willing to wait a generation they want their country and they want it now.
      They have also added a weekend of parties that they had planned to the list of things they have been cheated out of.
      So LET,S DO THIS

    115. Kevin Evans says:

      On the subject of George square tonight – Anyone who thinks this divide has been caused by the referendum question is badly mistaken – this divide was always there – all the refurendum has done is brought it to the forefront – and about time too if am honest – this is what the people need to see.
      To separated from the uk gave us the chance to end this but not by walking away – to separate was the chance to take control of our own affairs but deal with the real question which was not how are we different but ok to make this island work what do we have in common.
      I watched during the commonwealth games because of the correct distinction of 4 separate nations and real unity where scotland cheered on English atheletes/Welsh cheered on scots and so on – the separation allowed us to discover what made us similar.
      I strongly advocate we brush ourselves off and start again – the 45 is not a political moment but a social unity that has different political party’s under its umbrella.
      We are scots the yes voters – we do not give up – if we do then we are truly lost.

    116. geeo says:

      Right, had my rant, sorry about that, absolutely inspired to fight back by you guys but especially by a conversation with my son(23).

      He simply said that all his pals are not having it, they want control of their lives and their country.

      He said simply that his generation need the likes of us to help guide them along the way, he also reminded me about the principles i helped install in him about social fairness and equality.

      So proud of him but a wee bit ashamed of myself yesterday.
      HaviHavingng said that, at least i know for sure he has listened to me all these years.
      Happy with that.

      Sooo….as i posted on the ("Tractor" - Ed)ist DR story about milliband, from me to him.
      …….
      “Another scumbag not fit for purpose!

      What about the VOW you signed Ed ?

      Hear this ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Ed, the 45% are regrouping to try ensure every labour MP in Scotland possible is dumped by the people you deliberately S**t on with your lies.

      There will be clarion calls to target those, especially those, who fought against Scotland’s best interests.

      Unlike your rampaging unionist Scumbags in George Square, we will be peaceful, and when successful, we will not gloat, we will simply, in a personal moment of reflection, allow a smile to pass fleetingly across our lips”.
      …..

      That will be the basis of what’s on its way via e-mail to every labour MP in Scotland tomorrow.

    117. macart763m says:

      Well who knew?

      Anyone with half a brain and a spine.

    118. Kevin Evans says:

      Can I also suggest this.

      During this refurendum I have decided to volunteer at a food bank.

      We need a movement with a positive message that’s not just “YES” we want change.

      Can I suggest we group together and all the issues we spoke about concerning food banks/trident and all the other things we wanted i a new scotland we start to help with. If we can get volunteers from here to help man food banks but all under the banners of the “45” we can get noticed not just as the yes campaign but as a real movement will to get off its arse and make a positive change by getting in there.

      Lead by example is the only way – let the politicians do work politics but we can start by keep it grassrooted but under the banner of the “45” and have the politicians we trust advocate and acknowledge the movement.

      Solders will follow into battle a commander they respect – lead by example is the way. Keep it grassroots on our side and let the politicians fight it on there level.

    119. Ian Mor says:

      Can anyone find me footage of Ruth Davidson interviewed at the count? I’m sure it was the BBC (I was flicking from STV) She stated very early, just after the count started, that her sources told her the postal votes were NO. That she couldn’t say earlier because the count hadn’t started. Cue a huge grin

      This seriously bugged me as being highly irregular,

      SIRA 2013 Schedule7 (offences) para7 (requirement of secrecy) sub-para 7 (d)
      seems to confirm this was an offence at source.
      Or am I wrong?

      Thanks.

    120. geeo says:

      I like the notion of “the 45”
      as a campaigning movement.

      Using “Yes” would be tainted by the loss this time around.

      “The 45” would be a movement to rally around, united as one group aligned to the SNP under the stewardship of Nicola Sturgeon. She can do what she does best, aided out there by “The 45” grassroots movement.

      Imagine a co-ordinated “45” group in all 32 council areas, with a structure linking all 32 local groups with a central co-ordinator (stu?) who when required can liase with SNP party heirachy in regards to overall strategy ?
      Could be a formidable force.

      Could this be achieved or am i just dreaming ?

    121. Mealer says:

      Jenny Marra.I wonder how many Yes voters will vote Labour again.

    122. Kevin Evans says:

      I suggest the 45 must be a separate thing all together – it was easy for the yes to be linked with snp and that put off people – the 45 is a social group not run by any political party – it can and will be advocated by the greens/snp/ssp for its work in real action to help the issues raised by the yes campaign for change – it will show with one mighty hit the westminster establishment the yes campaigns social justic did not die and if we keep it separate from politics they can’t attack it.

      Let the snp/ssp/greens fight the politics.

      It was easy to tranish yes because of its political links – the 45 make it clear were answering to the call for change that was asked for by the yes voters who voted yes not for change but as a cry for help.

    123. CameronB Brodie says:

      Do questions need to be asked over the policing in George Square?

      https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152309438961498

    124. Kevin Evans says:

      It doesnt matter who you vote for with the 45 – it truly is above politics

    125. geeo says:

      Fair shout kevin.

      How would this affect such a group ?
      …..
      http://rt.com/uk/189112-gagging-act-uk-undemocratic/

    126. Kevin Evans says:

      Look let’s stop this pointing the finger blame game – it just makes us look stupid – I truly believe this 45 is the answer – the 45 can movement can openly speak out about the BBC/asda whoever it wants to but without having to get its hands dirty in the political arena.

    127. Kevin Evans says:

      From what I can tell stu seems to be who everyone here is looking for for guidence.

      Am certainly not the man to lead such a group but based on my own want to volunteer now at food banks and so on I will certainly help do my part

    128. Kirsty says:

      Kevin, I do believe it’s because of the referendum. I know what you’re saying about the divide always being there, and you’re right, but it’s a divide that was fading and was not even really relevant to the vast majority of Glaswegians before tonight. The unionists have actively encouraged and built on that fading divide by making the referendum about nationalism rather than democracy, which is what it was really about (and they knew fine well what they were doing).

      The bile and vitriol that Labour and their pals have poured out over the last two years or so because they wanted to win the referendum at any price has made this happen. Honestly, I know people will laugh at me but I feel like this is an establishment punishment; Glasgow is Scotland’s biggest city and we voted Yes, now my beautiful city is being burned and destroyed by lowlife thugs. The unionist politicians are to blame because they actively encouraged discord and sectarianism throughout the referendum campaign and I hope they’re made to clean up Glasgow tomorrow with their mouths.

    129. Mealer says:

      Here’s something we can all do over the next few days and weeks.Every Yes voter needs to be personally thanked and shaked by the hand.Especially the ones who you think bottled it.

    130. Kevin Evans says:

      Yea mealer – agreed begin with unity and acknledgement for following hope and not fear

    131. I have long been a fan of Flower of Scotland. Aye, sometimes, most-memorably at the third-fourth place play-off match in Cardiff, at the 1991 Rugby World Cup, if played too-slowly, it sounds like a terrible dirge.

      It annoys me that the Tartan Army (football batallions) treat it as a race between them and the band. It further annoys me that it cannot really be played with any impact by a pipe band – if we must have a pipe band, better Highland Cathedral, which was written specifically as a pipe tune.

      But, after the betrayal of Thursday, when so-many fellow Scots went,hook, line and sinker for the lies of Gordon Brown and the Three Stooges – I do not want to sing it again.

      Can I therefore, float this notion past the collective which is being formed here – The 45.

      At Hampden, or Murrayfield – wherever or whenever it is played: We do not sing the first verse, indeed, while it is being played, we remain seated. But, as one, we rise and “gie it laldy” in the second verse – that bit about:

      “We can still rise now, and be the nation again, that stood against them, proud Edwar’s army, and sent them homeward, tae think again”.

      Now, that would send a message.

    132. Graeme Kerr says:

      i love the 45 as a name and a badge of pride but by adopting it we immediately exclude all of the 55. we’re gonny need some of them to get over the line

    133. Graeme Kerr says:

      and we root ourselves in the past

    134. Kevin evans says:

      See this is great – a focus we now have again with ideas in a direction.

      Anything I say is only a suggestion – it’s not forced on a anyone.

      This is about people not politics claiming back it’s nation – this 45 could be a tribute to our FM to show him he fought for something and were still answering his call.

      The 45 leading by example could show soft no’s or whoever was wavering what yes was really about – the 45 movement can be the mirror that’s held up to the no’s to let them see there shame – we only need 200,000 people to change – not that am suggesting were are like these greatmen but the 45 can work on the spirit and principles of Mandela , gahndi , Martin Luther king . These men really shock the establishment to the core but leading by example.

      It won’t be easy but the target is so close – only 200,000 people.

      The Westminster goverment to come with it’s crAp it’s gonna lay on scotland will help move this along too. So we only have to steer this ship. The 45 idea is already catchin on on Facebook but it needs to be fuelled fast so it can really gather steam before it flame is truly out.

    135. Mealer says:

      They always feared the debate.And they were right to do so.Over the lengthy campaign we persuaded 45% to vote Yes on the day,but there were some days in the last few weeks when we had over fifty.The biggest thing is that there has been a massive lift in the number of people who now think independence is a viable proposition,even if they didn’t go for it this time.This is especially true among younger people.

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      No doubt the BBC will cover the events in Glasgow. Of course they will and they will be accurate, as well. Ma bahookie.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2762876/Union-flag-waving-demonstrators-make-Nazi-salute-Glasgow-victory-celebrations-Police-separate-rival-groups-tension-increases.html

    137. Mealer says:

      And another thing.What percentage of trade union members voted Yes? They need to get along to the next branch meeting.We need the STUC to be firmly behind Full Fiscal Autonomy.

    138. manandboy says:

      I am still in a state of shock and disbelief at NO vote.

      WHY, OH WHY, OH WHY NO ?

      Every Council area in Scotland bar 5 voted NO –

      even the Western Isles !!

      WHY ? WE NEED TO KNOW.

      If we don’t know what the problem is

      how can we fix it ?

      In my view, over 2 million people voted to throw their

      country’s independence away.

      They must have had a HUGE REASON to do that.

      Over 2 million people voted to donate to the super rich in the SE of England the vast oil and gas fields all around Scotland.

      They must have had a MASSIVE REASON to do that.

      I don’t know what that reason is.

      But I think the 45%, the 1.6 million Yes voters, should find out.
      .

      ANOTHER QUESTION,

      this time for the Scottish Government/SNP

      Why is that after two years of campaigning by the SNP,

      much of the population

      STILL KNOWS NEXT TO NOTHING

      about the true extent of Scotland’s oil reserves,

      off the north & west coast,

      as well as the North Sea ?
      .

      Are the 2 million no voters so effin rich

      that they can afford to discard

      TRILLIONS OF POUNDS worth of oil and gas wealth

      and with it the future prosperity

      of Scotland’s young people ?
      .

      I need to know the answers to these questions

      and I’m going to start asking them

      beginning with the SNP, Alex, Nicola and everyone else

      in Holyrood, and then beyond.

      It’s time to transfer my shock and disbelief

      to the politicians as they realise

      there’s 1.6 million very angry people on their doorstep

      demanding answers AND taking action.

    139. Donald says:

      To all those saying the fight isn’t over correct, but the time to do something isn’t next years election it is NOW!! DO NOT roll over and let them get away with this blatant betrayal, protest NOW.

    140. Graeme Kerr says:

      you’re taking that too far

    141. Don McKillop says:

      I got up early here in Oz to watch the results slowly come in, and as I watched in horror, my folk back home rejected to stand on their own two feet. As the tears rolled down my eyes I went through all the stages of grief until the final stage of acceptance; fuck that I will never accept it, no never. I wrote about this site in The (Melbourne)Age and was heartened by a number of replies I received, all of whom loved WOS. I would be more than honoured to be a 45er if possible, and continue to fight for the right of my homeland to be Governed only from Scotland.

      The wisest and most forgiven man to ever walk this earth, the historical Joshua, is reported to have said at his execution, “Father, forgive them for they know what they do.” I, unfortunately a few weeks from reaching 70, am not that person and believe that all the businesses and institutions that lied, bullied and threatened so as to strike fear into the common folk of Scotland should be taken to task each and every day until the day comes, and it will come, when Scotland stands as an equal partner alongside the other countries of the world. Please Stu, for all the Scots, all over the world, don’t give up the fight. Hail Caesar!.

    142. Ananurhing says:

      bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29271768

      For once I agree with Nick Robinson.

    143. Graeme Kerr says:

      adopting a group name with obvious battle connotations will allow anybody who wants to, to benifit by identifying us as antagonists. It would be a disgrace to the breadth and depth of the campaign and the spirit in which it was carried out

    144. Grouse Beater says:

      Scotland – Going, Going, Gone – grousebeater.wordpress

    145. Albamac says:

      Just had a word with the BBC.

      BBC SURVEY

      Q1. What do you like about the Scotland News site?

      Answer:

      Absolutely nothing. It is thoroughly dishonest, manufactures, manipulates and mangles news to suit its own ends, is completely unaccountable to the people who finance it and utterly worthless as a public service broadcaster.

      Yesterday, we watched live footage, courtesy of Russian TV, recorded videos from bystanders and numerous still pictures of the violent disorder that engulfed Glasgow city centre. None of it came from BBC Scotland. What we got, instead, were two tiny, misleading and self-contradictory snippets. One tucked away under a link to a short video clip (duration 1m33s) and the other, even more disgracefully, embedded in a story that carried the headline, “Scottish referendum: Salmond to quit after Scots vote No”.

      That was how BBC Scotland reported hours of public disorder, lasting well into the night, during which a mob of Uber-Unionist thugs occupied George Square and terrorised everyone in the surrounding area. We witnessed everything from the initial threatening behaviour and Nazi salutes at the Cenotaph to numerous physical assaults, flares and bottles flying through the air and arson at the offices of the only pro-independence newspaper in Scotland, When the worst of it was over, the drunken dregs took to goading the police because there were no other targets for their hatred. Two were arrested.

      That’s how Unionists celebrated their victory in Glasgow. George Square went from carnival to carnage in two days and the BBC turned a blind eye.

      I dread to think what would have happened if they’d lost.

      Typically, with the biggest story of the day on their doorstep, this morning’s front page on BBC Scotland’s website decides to give it a miss. Will they cover the Orange marches that are scheduled to take place in Glasgow over the next few days? They wouldn’t want to miss all the fun, would they?

      God save the Queen and God help the rest of us.

      Q2. How could we improve the Scotland News site?

      Answer:

      An auction site for Scotland’s remaining assets? BBC memorabilia?

    146. Stuart Muir says:

      Gordon Brown now the enforcer for the promised powers, aye my arse!!

    147. Maybolebuddie says:

      Gordon Brown defender of the vows from Westminster, aye my ar*e!!

    148. Mealer says:

      Donald.
      We’ve just had a vote on independence.We lost.What do we protest against? Democracy?
      We must build a consensus around Full Fiscal Autonomy,which I think is already supported by two thirds of Scots,and press hard for it to be delivered.Independence is off the agenda until Westminster has had the opportunity to deliver all the powers the majority of Scots want.The campaign goes on.Quietly working away.Building up a demand for powers the majority of Scots already want.

    149. PickledOnionSupper says:

      Just emailed my (Labour) MP asking why the first promise has not been delivered. Will let you know if I get a response…

    150. Albamac says:

      Meant to add a p.s. to my earlier comment.

      BBC has news of events at George Square. They’ve just made a wee mistake on the geography.

    151. Graeme Purves says:

      From reports on BBC Radio Scotland this morning, Gordon Brown seems to have been appointed as our Governor General.

    152. manandboy says:

      http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1730ow&s=8#.VB0a4JRdXTo

      A message from Mr Cameron to all Scots No voters

    153. JimnArlene says:

      Truly disgusted at the scene of the neo Nazi/unionist scum in Glasgow.
      The new powers will never be delivered, we who read this blog, always new that would be the case.
      We are the “45”, we are legion.

    154. giftzwerg says:

      An interesting article in Le Monde:

      http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2014/09/19/si-londres-veut-sortir-de-l-ue-en-2017-l-independance-ecossaise-se-reposera_4490863_3214.html

      which suggests that in the event of a UK exit from the EU the independence debate would be very much back on.

      Hope I am not clutching at straws here but it could be a game changer in that the narrow no vote in favour of the status quo was for union with the rest of the UK within the EU.

    155. Ken500 says:

      Orkney/Shetland bad Internet connection, Simple as that. Out of the loop.

    156. heedtracker says:

      http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/ScottishReferendum/article1459005.ece Long neo con in politics. Start raising council tax on the posh suburbanites of the Scotland region. Labour keep demanding it, vote NO to Scotland and yes to teamGB so now its time they pay for teamGB

    157. heedtracker says:

      Orkney/Shetland bad Internet connection. Prof Curtice says the No vote won on the incoming vote to Scotland, but he left out the word English people, and the elderly. The poorest voted YES and probably have no internet at all, let alone a land line. Our elite pay virtually no tax, the Scottish middle class voted for teamGB, its time they all started contributing to what they voted for.

      Why should the worst off pay Lorretto students in Embro uni fees after same Lorretto student vote to be a proud Scot but in the UK? and its not like they cant afford to.

    158. AndyC says:

      Great Stuart!

      In the words of the great Joe Hill, executed for trying to form a labour union, “don’t mourn, organise”:

      To: ann [dot] mckechin [dot] mp [at] parliament [dot] uk
      The Vow

      Dear Ann

      I noticed that during the recent Scottish Independence Referendum campaign, your party leader, along with those of the Conservative and Unionist Party and the Liberal Democratic Party, made a pledge that there would be a timetable for more devolved powers. In one of your Better Together campaign leaflets, the people of Scotland were told that “The day after a no vote the tmetable for further powers will be published as a motion before the UK Parliament. All UK parties will support the motion”.

      I appreciate that you are all very busy down there in Westminster but respectfully note that this day has now passed and no parliamentary motion seems to have been forthcoming. Could you please let me know when we might expect to see the “UK parties” publish their motion? Thank you.

      Kind regards

      Andrew Cumbers

    159. davidb says:

      http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/09/lord%20ashcroft%20poll.jpg

      Look at the Ashcroft poll here.

      I find it curious that 14% of previous SNP voters would vote no. I note that some other demographics than pensioners voted no. So can we lighten up on them please. I am encouraged that the top reason for Yes is the one I banged on about campaigning. I am not at all surprised that the top no reason was the pound.

      That was the Achilles heel in this whole debate. It was easily refutable but I was only able to do that by doing my own research. I am astonished that it wasn’t anticipated. Eck – whom I respect greatly and admire – let that ball drop in debate 1 and those bastards were allowed to run with it. We would have won if every campaigner was briefed on the currency technicalities. I never found anyone who I explained it to had any real difficulty with the intellectual nature of the question. As well as sitting Modern Studies exams, a lot of our fellow patriots can make a decent hash of Economics too.

      We have to keep up this campaign. We can win this soon.

      45%

    160. ronnie anderson says:

      Bbc Newswatch dealing with complaints of bias. Bbc Scotlands answer Balance,Fair,Impatial.Three words that should be omitted from the scripts of Bbc News Presenters.

    161. Ken500 says:

      Any WBB left. Or printed some more. A boat load to Orkney/Shetland should do the trick. They are in the dark, despite those long summer nights.

    162. john king says:

      I have a question
      Are we allowed to call ourselves the “45 Rebellion” yet?

      Mr Alex Clarke
      A man I am proud to call my freind,
      dont bury THPNR we need him!

      Jules@ 12.42
      Jules?
      do we know each other?

      Alistair Carmichael tells Laura Bicker shes being bullied and threatened by those seperatist thugs, she on the other hand disagreed stating she didnt feel threatened by the protesters @Pacific Quay,
      you can see we’re a pretty volatile mob
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40t5qluEWc

      Oto hand BBC seems to be downplaying the jolly japes a group of pals get up to in George Square
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGel-qqnWg

      Tell me, which rally would you rather have been at?

    163. pete the Camera says:

      Alex the Point of No Return may have past but the Moment Of Truth is here, the missing of the promised start of the No’s timetable is just a kick in the face for those that thought the promises made would come true if they voted No, so condolences to all these OAP’s were mugged by the Westminster three, hope they don’t suffer first when the noose tightens on the Scottish budget.

    164. Graeme Kerr says:

      ‘we’ are not 45! ‘we are the people of scotland, every one of us. there is no benifit to be had in seeking to maintain an arbitrary division between ourselves.

    165. Ken500 says:

      The elderly voted NO and many do not have Internet connection. Most folk have mobile phones, cheaper than landline?. Demographics of settled people from elsewhere voted NO.

      Demographics will merge 5/10 years in Scotland and Ireland. Self determination will prevail. Accountable governance.

    166. Marker Post says:

      Malta today celebrates 50 years of independence from UK.

      Malta! A country of less than half a million people. From wikipedia, “Malta’s major resources are limestone, a favourable geographic location, and a productive workforce”.

      Luckily, it doesn’t have the curse of 25% of Europe’s oil and gas reserves, and 60% of renewable energy potential.

    167. Graeme Kerr says:

      unless of course you are trying to establish a division between us

    168. heedtracker says:

      some other demographics than pensioners voted no. So can we lighten up on them please

      This is not the point. Ofcourse THE VOW is all lies so the task for Scots.gov is to now end the “freebies” enjoyed by the democratic majority but who voted against them all.

      It would be insane now to continue with universal stuff like bus passes, free prescriptions, no tuition fees, no council tax rises because the majority voted against all of this.

      Trident 2 will soon come bobbing up the Clyde, Scotland has a massive shortage of social housing but the majority voted for this.

      Think what Scotland could be planning today, if Scotland had voted YES but we didn’t so now its time to pay.

    169. Cindie says:

      @davidb I’ve been looking at those stats this morning too. The one that really stood out for me was that the majority of yes voters only made up their mind in the last year and a significant number of them in the last month. I can’t help thinking that this had to have a lot to do with the release Wee Blue Book.

      This is another link to the stats with bigger tables etc for those of us who can’t find our reading glasses: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/7-fascinating-insights-into-why-scotland-voted-against-indep?utm_term=3mjnol4#3xrdoyu

    170. bookie from hell says:

      The leaflet on the left,better together

      was that in the daily record?

      thx

    171. Ken500 says:

      By 2018 – nearly one hundred years from 1928, when the campaign began. It will be in the bag. Alex Salmond is a wonderful man and has advanced Scotland even further. First President?

    172. Cindie says:

      Meant to say. Hi Alex Clarke, I was rather fond of Thpnr but it’s good to know your real name too x

    173. Donald says:

      @Mealer

      Donald.
      We’ve just had a vote on independence.We lost.What do we protest against? Democracy?

      No you protest against the fact that the NO Vote was partly or possibly even fully secured through blatant deception and deceit. Better Together’s leaflet unequivocally states that a timetable for powers would be presented as a motion at Westminster on Friday the 19th of September. As of today that has proven to be an utter lie.

      The NO Vote as far as I am concerned was secured through deception and is therefore invalid. Scots should protest and demand either independence or another referendum.

      We CANNOT let such lies and deceit go unchallenged, we CANNOT let the invalid NO Vote stand unchallenged.

    174. davidb says:

      @ heedtracker

      I know that we are all still grieving. But while the campaign united disparate groups, the electorate in the main voted no because of fear, loyalty to the Labour party, and an unsatisfactory answer to the basic currency question – exploited by the no camp and the ministry of truth ( as I propose to refer to the BBC from now on).

      This was not a class war. 2/3 of Labour voters sided with No. The third reason for yes was the anti Tory answer and that was cited by 10%. If the 57% of respondents who used the pound as their feeble excuse hadn’t that excuse then we may have just swung this.

      My poll station experience of Asian voters was that the majority of the ones I saw were with us. My personal interaction with English voters was that they were with us. Looking at the numbers for Conservatives – who were specifically named on Yes posters – I can understand their animosity to our cause.

      If you want to “target” any group, find out who the 2/3 of Labour types are who have a loyalty to their party which is greater than that to their country.

      So. Until we have wise analysis of results. Demographics. Party loyalties and the like. Can we refrain from picking out perceived no groups for “retaliation”.

      We can win this thing. Soon. If we weld together. Act together. Civilly disobey together. There’s no great harm for instance to any person if say the 45 were to boycott Asda on say December 23rd. They will learn to stay out of politics next time. We can look at transferring bank business to Scottish owned firms. What if we all boycott Tunnocks for a week. But attacking benefits which apply equally to both Yes and no voters, is likely to be counter productive.

      45

    175. Craig MacKenzie says:

      In June, a few of us Scots in Shanghai decided to offer up a contribution by way of a song.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHJAN7Jsj4

      It was OK.. just OK and it deservedly didn’t get many hits however it does occur to me that we have an oportunity coming up to keep the pot boiling.

      Scotland v England 18th November.

      Anyone up for trying to organise one of the following now that we are officially North Britain.

      1) A mass silence during the singing of Flower of Scotland
      2) A mass walkout 2 mins into the game leaving “sold out” signs on our seats
      3) Leaving a full sized cardboard cutout on your seat (some appropriate design e.g. a gagged person, Jim Murphy in a Union Jack suit etc etc)

      any other ideas…

      I am happy to fund any ideas but I return to Shanghai (bruised but not broken) in two weeks time and will not be best placed to organise much.

    176. saporian says:

      OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
      Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
      The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.

    177. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The 50+1 group

      ?

    178. Marker Post says:

      We need a Yes TV Channel. Probably not hugely expensive to set up in the digital age, the challenge would be to fund the researchers and presenters and interviewers. Could easily be crowd-funded.

    179. Ken500 says:

      FFS Maddox makes the big time. Sky News sofa. Exposed.

    180. john king says:

      James Kelly standing in the Edinburgh rain talking to the BBC now.

    181. Graeme Kerr says:

      also, by forming a group named on the percentage of the population, you are imposing a limt on your own membership!!! a ceiling of course. not a floor.

    182. heedtracker says:

      @ davidb. I hope too:D

    183. Cal says:

      People stop posting direct links to newspapers! You are giving them the oxygen of the funds they receive from advertisers. Use archive.is It’s really easy – go to the article at the newspaper then open a new window and go to http://archive.is/ Copy and paste the address for the newspaper article into the red bordered box at the top of the page at the archive.is site. Click click on Submit url and bingo! After a few seconds you will have your archived article complete with its own address. When you post the link here, use the archive.is address and not the original newspaper one.

    184. Ceartas says:

      Thanks to you Rev. for exposing the lies and falsehoods throughout this campaign. We need you to continue this work highlighting each failed promise in the “Vow”. You will need to be financially supported in this work, so I propose that you get some tasteful enamel badges produced bearing the words “DON’T BLAME ME, I VOTED YES”. Silver lettering on a blue background would be nice. These badges would be offered to the readers of your site at a cost of £10.00. or so. The badges could be offered on a yearly basis, with maybe a colour change or something. You have the best brain and resource to let the people of Scotland know how they got fooled again. Once again, thanks to you and keep the pecker up!

    185. ronnie anderson says:

      Simon Pia on Aljazzera 70% of scots wanted Devo Max, the fucker lives in another universe

    186. StevieMcB says:

      To keep momentum i suggest we alter our Yes posters,Yes flags etc with ’45’ and get them back on display. we cant let the barstewards grind us down.

    187. Scotspine says:

      Im up for crowdfunding a wings tv channel Rev. Anyone else?

    188. goulashman says:

      The same elements and interests, of course differently figured, as divided Scotland and the Scottish in the 18th century divide them now. The ‘imperial’ vested interest of corporate business and their supporting politic are the transfigured but equally powerful Hanoverian interests that suppressed Scottish independence. The weight of the whole machine was too much to resist, although this resistance in the end has been surprisingly resilient. One factor now is different: YES has brought together all the elements within Scottish society that oppose a rightest capitalist ideology that supports a plutocratic regime. At least, in one part of the UK, there is a true alternative emerging to the common ideology of Tory/UKIP/Labour/LibDem. In this sense and in this achievement is the real and lasting success of YES

    189. Ken50 says:

      It’s only a set back. Regroup and advance again.

    190. Donald says:

      @Bookie from Hell

      Don’t know if the leaflet was in the daily record but its on their Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/bettertogetheruk/photos/a.321977804552534.75744.301783293238652/724489937634650/?type=1

    191. Graeme Kerr says:

      aye panda. the 50 + 1group. the have you changed your mind yet group. the do you feel more secure about the prospect of independence yet group. is there something you need to know to allay your fears group. but not the bloody 45 group! ffs

    192. Ananurhing says:

      My teenage daughters arrived home from school in tears yesterday. They’d been goaded and abused all day by a group of kids waving wee union flags, singing Rule Brittania and God Save the Queen.

      This is a rural high school with a sizeable number of kids from English families. There’s never been an anti English problem, and there’s no religious divide. Far from it. Yesterday, there were English and Scottish kids together indulging in anti Scottish chants. Middle class kids behaving like feral orange order/EDL dogs.

      On the bus there was an English kid aggressively shouting at Scottish kids, accusing them of selfishness, greed, and having “asked” for too much.

      The mind set of these kids is usually a reflection of their parents. One parent told me he voted No because he was English. That was it. No other reason. There’s no mistaking that many of these kids regard themselves as English despite having grown up here.

      A local Scottish family who moved here years ago are of a Protestant/Rangers/Orange disposition, although it’s never displayed, vocalised, or discussed. Their kids found a voice yesterday, barking alongside the Britnat kids.

      All the Yes signs are starting to come down, and I’m noticing union flags flying, large and small where there were none before. There’s even a “Scottish” scout centre not far away that flies a union flag, and no saltire.

      Fuck me! Is this now the future?
      Fear, ignorance, greed, and self interest prevailed on Thursday. Humanity lost.

    193. Harry Shanks says:

      I do admire the fortitude of the people who have posted on Wings since yesterday – but I’m having some difficulty in joining in and i’m still thoroughly depressed by the result.

      Yes, the “vow” was broken before half a day had gone – but where are the duped NO voters we are assuming to be incensed by that? Where is their suggestion e.g. that a permanent demonstration – a “Vow-Vigil” be set up outside Gordon Browns house until he is shamed into delivering on each and every LIE he so cynically uttered? It appears from comments on twitter etc, that there are none, – and one can only deduce from that is that the “vow” did not sway as many voters as we might like to think, and that they would have voted NO irrespective. Certainly those pensioners who shamefully voted to rob their own grandkids of their futures for the sake of a free bus pass, would have done so whatever the circumstances.

      I also have some difficulty with the idea being floated that any movement arising from the ashes of this hammer blow must disassociate itself from the SNP. The SNP alone brought us the referendum and the SNP alone delivered the vast,vast majority of its voters – quite unlike ANY of the other parties. In my view, the SNP will always be the natural political arm of any independence movement and can not be disassociated from.

      I am distraught at losing Alex Salmond. If you think back, when he initially stayed in the background of the campaign it was struggling to get anywhere near NO. It was only after the two live debates and his move to the forefront of the campaign that anything significant started to happen for YES. No other SNP leader, with the possible exception of Gordon Wilson (briefly) in the 70’s has significantly advanced the SNP and, by extension, the independence movement. I do think Nicola is very able, and will certainly win the leadership – but personality- wise she is no Alex Salmond and I can only hope she grows into the job. What we do NOT need is another nondescript leader who takes the party backwards.

      For myself, I feel I shall be dead before the opportunity WE threw away on Thursday (for we must accept some responsibility for the failure to persuade) comes around again – and I don’t think it ever will, because another Referendum will never be conceded by WM. A thumping majority of SNP MPs would not even secure another referendum, which would leave us with thumping Maj + UDI , and we saw last night in George Square just where that would lead.

      Right at this moment, my inclination is to opt out. I’ve spent 40 adult years doing my bit for the cause of independence, which is way less than some and a little more that others. In the next couple of years I will have options to leave Scotland and if I do so i’ll probably never return. I need a reason to stay, and I currently can’t see one. Right now my inclination is to say that the ("Tractor" - Ed)s who voted NO (and we are too apologetic about using that entirely accurate description) have made their bed, let them lie in it. I’m struggling to find motivation to continue the fight. If I do find that motivation anywhere, it will certainly be from a renewed SNP and from this site where the real people hang out. I hope that Rev Stu keeps it going, and for starters, exposes the lying snake of Kirkcaldy for what he is. Actually, my idea of a “Vow Vigil” right outside Brown’s front door has made a little smile curl around my lips – perhaps there’s some Nationalist life left in me yet!

      Thanks for “listening” and apologies for any typos – eyesight not as good as it was.

    194. heedtracker says:

      @davidb, 18th sept is only history repeating itself. We won in 79 and got nothig but Thatcher. 80 years of Labour right to reign ove Scotland, generational poverty, deindutrialisation, war, debt, mass unemployment, slave wages, shite housing, mass immigration, environmental catastrophe and riches for the few way beyond greed and averice and we voted for another 30 years of it, because some folks like being British.

      I’d add Scots oil and gas squandered on nothing but shite but it’s actually been used to transform English infrastructure. Try listening to an English driver complain how the road to his weeken home in Cornwall isn’t dualed yet and then see how the Highlands voted Naw thanks.

    195. Paul says:

      Just seeing if this will post.

    196. Auld Sandy says:

      See Gordon Brown is outlining his plans for Scotland in a primary school in Fife today. In the country of the blind the one eyed man is king.

    197. slackshoe says:

      This is why we still need Wings. Our objective may be different, but there’s hundreds of thousands of highly engaged readers of this site who don’t want to stop – can’t stop. “If you’re going through hell, keep going.” (yes, I’m aware of the irony of quoting Churchill)

    198. goulashman says:

      Brown, intent on uniting Scotland, makes a speech today. What an insult! Those this ugly example of the worst of self-interested politicians want to become FM? Would the left unite around HIM?

    199. Cuilean says:

      The shame is that the Rangers Football Supporters Club (which I donated to when the Club folded), never once came out to publicly distance themselves from or to condemn the type of person snatching saltires off kids in George Square and hurling obscenities at random strangers. The halcyon summer Commonwealth Games seemed a dream last night in Glasgow. We seemed to have gone back in time to the 50s or 60s. I, an erstwhile Rangers fan, (not now, scarf hung up for good) will never forgive either the official Rangers supporters club or the serially infamous Rangers Board. Rangers are more than happy to be associated with these poisonous, willfully ignorant thugs, members of the BNP, English Defence League.They’ll be UKIPPERS, doubtless, if they vote at all. Rangers Club & Rangers fans, to me, will always now be associated with the British Establishment & BBCs fear campaign against Scotland’s legitimate fight for democracy and a fair Society.The Orange Order will be delighted when Scotland is ruled, from May 2015, by an even more right wing Tory/UKIP party.What right minded person could attend a Rangers football match, forced to hear & see these dregs of society? Worse of all, the thought of being taken for one of them or subjecting your kids to seeing their frightening & intimidating posturing?! Sadly, Rangers FC is finished to me now & all fair-minded folks. Boycott it, I say. Buy none of their now toxic merchandise, attend none of their matches, shun them as not wanted in any inclusive, civilised society.

    200. caz-m says:

      I had to go to George Square last night just to see for myself what these union jack waving fanatics are like in real life. (I was sober)

      And they really are from another planet. The venom and anger was very real, The majority were SDL, Orange Order, Rangers fans.

      Doing the “Bouncy Bouncy” was a dead give away.

      One guy nearly coming to blows with a YES supporter, arguing that he is a British soldier and the Queen pays his wages (that was his reason for voting NO).

      My heart really sank last night, knowing that we have lost Scotland to this shower of bigoted, drunken halfwits.

      We MUST win Scotland back, otherwise, this violence will not be confined to George Square.

    201. bookie from hell says:

      thx Donald

      Cameron had Brown in his pocket,pledges timetable meaningless

    202. Towzietyke says:

      Mulling this over the last days. shrouded in fog and misery. The sun shone through the window this morning..45% ..thinking this through this is a remarkable affirmation that nearly half of Scots want FULL independence. Not devo max, devo brown,devo Dave , devo shite.
      They are spinning that the idea of Scottish Independence has been put to bed for a generation.
      This is another lie.

      As Churchill said..

      Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

      “Arise the 45!!”

      There is a lot of work to do. Let’s get to it!!

    203. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Got an E mail from Ed Miliband, honestly

      to Bugger

      From Ed Miliband onenationpolitics [at] labour [dot] org [dot] uk

      Bugger,

      I am delighted and proud that the people of Scotland have made this historic decision to stay in the United Kingdom.

      This was a vote for social justice, for our NHS, and for unity — because we are better together.

      There must be stronger powers for the Scottish Parliament, but we must also change the way the UK is governed and who it is run for.

      We need more good jobs and job security. We need decent wages and an end to poverty pay. We need a better future for our young people so they can believe they can have a better life than their parents.

      There will be many across Scotland who are disappointed today. I am determined to show those people that the Labour Party can be the place for all our aspirations for fairness, our families and our country.

      The last few weeks have been about keeping our country together. The next eight months will be about showing how we can change our country together.

      There is only one party that can do it — and that is the Labour Party.

      Bugger — we need your help if we’re going to change this country. Are you with us?

    204. Ken500 says:

      The elderly wanted to retain their pensions, the lowest in Europe.

      Millionaire Gordon Brown wants to keep on tax evading, sanctioning the vulnerable to walk to food banks.

    205. caz-m says:

      If you have the stomach, Gordon “LIAR” Brown speech, 10am Sky News.

    206. donnywho says:

      The bitterness and anger are totally justified, but I for one think we the 45 have to use our power. By all means we should boycott firms we don’t like but we have to be positive. I love the idea of taking on the establishment! So where did we fail what do we need in a future Scotland and lets start to create these institutions now!
      Did anybody see the Bank of Dave … It ain’t so difficult and it can be constructed as a beacon of the future, cooperative, local and small business friendly.
      The media is corrupt we all know and hate it. There are some great journalist/citizen/bloggers out there. Perhaps we could start a new form of newsfeed. I think a mishmash of webcast/newsfeed/twitter feed /blog/ with the aim to get onto the real-world eventually eg a paper and broadcast lets aim to go from clicks to bricks.
      We wanted a new Scotland, we didn’t get it so fuckem lets start now.

    207. Thomas Valentine says:

      The British Government likes its WW2 metaphors a great deal. Here’s one. The YES campaign has had its Little Dunkirk. They said everything was pie in the sky promises. Well now we’re in the position of testing their “promises”.

      When I went into work on Friday. I expected jubilation from the people who said they were No voters. But where were smiles and satisfied comments of a job well done. Why the tinge of shame. They have no future, no hope that next year will or at least might be better. They’re clinging on hoping its not going to get worse.

      I’m going to get a nice discrete YES badge if I can still find one. Then wear it from now on.

    208. Albaman says:

      Rev,
      I know that this may make your blood boil, but may I suggest that you alter your ” wings” logo a little, when I handed out your Wee Blue Books the first thing people, and friends said “oh look that’s almost the same as the Gestapo one”, which did put a slight negative at the outset, hopefully overcome once they got into reading it. I mention this, because I do believe that there will be an “next time”, and it may be sooner, rather than latter.

    209. Simba says:

      Without comment – This morning’s ‘Tribune de Genéve’ carries a cartoon showing a kilted Scotsman standing high on a rock. Two hikers are passing by – the woman says “Look – he’s got nothing on under his kilt!” The man replies “Yes – and he’s got no balls either!”.

    210. Golfnut says:

      To all those who consider that the 45 may be divisive.
      I think that it is important that all the disparate groups in the
      Indepence campaign can identify with like minded souls and
      Continuing movement. The 45 is kind of a badge of honour.
      That might sound silly, but I am proud that I and the majority
      Of my family voted Yes.
      Its going to take a while for me to stop despising no voters,
      but I’ll get there.
      The politicians and party hacks, the media. Never

    211. donnywho says:

      Ps could be quite quick to go to bricks as the Scotsman is now tiny living in orchard brae and technically bankrupt! We could buy this rag and make it a thorn in the side of the establishment. We are the people of Scotland our power resides in us, to win we must become the new enlightenment

    212. heedtracker says:

      Fuck me! Is this now the future?
      Fear, ignorance, greed, and self interest prevailed on Thursday. Humanity lost.

      There are 60 million English people so ofcourse they dominate the whole of GB. It’s just logic. The most important thing now is begin taxation policy that directly reflects the settled will of the Scottish people, or as the BBC keep saying “cementing the union for a generation or more”

      So start paying for the settled will they voted for. It is nonsense on stilts, good old George, nonsense on stilts that freebies currently enjoyed by those in Scotland who voted against them, should continue to take them. This isn’t about personal sadness or disappointment.

      You voted for teamGB, start paying the same as every one of your fellow teamGB citizens.

      Even more simple, why should a Morningside banker in Edinburgh not now be paying exactly the same as say a Surrey stock broker in the City of London?

      They voted teamGB now they pay teamGB.

    213. Graeme Kerr says:

      the 75!

    214. bookie from hell says:

      Simba says:
      20 September, 2014 at 9:12 am
      Without comment – This morning’s ‘Tribune de Genéve’ carries a cartoon showing a kilted Scotsman standing high on a rock. Two hikers are passing by – the woman says “Look – he’s got nothing on under his kilt!” The man replies “Yes – and he’s got no balls either!”.

      bfh—is he singing flower of Scotland at the same time

    215. Ananurhing says:

      The ’45’ smacks of a crushed 18thC rebellion.

    216. donnywho says:

      We win by creating a vision and proving it can work! Showing we are better and creating belief. We have to start the enlightenment now, if we do this “failure” may truly be the fire that forged a new nation

    217. goulashman says:

      Oppose and discredit these destructive politicians like Brown, Lamont, Miliband, Darling and their Tory string pullers. How we need courage such as Salmond’s. I hope Nicola and others will build on his legacy …. and we need to encourage and support such as Harvie and the Greens …… and those brought together in RIC. The building blocks are solid: the will must be strong. It ain’t over yet. The fight for the Scottish nation and a decent society has just begun. Please Rev. Please Wings – remain. My generation has lost its chance and prostituted itself to self-interest and greed. May the younger generations take a different way. I am deeply ashamed for my generation of 65+

    218. ronnie anderson says:

      To All the Lurkers Past & Present dont be in the backdrop, we need LURCHERS for the next phase of the campain.

    219. Grendel says:

      The Orange Order has a new date in it’s marching diary, and we can thank the Jim Murphy’s and George Galloways for that.

    220. Seasick Dave says:

      Auld Sandy

      See Gordon Brown is outlining his plans for Scotland in a primary school in Fife today.

      How is a backbench opposition MP going to manage that?

    221. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      Certain bikers used to call themselves ‘one percenters’.

      I quite like the idea of the ’45’.

    222. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      If anyone is wondering what to do with their banking now that all the UKOK supporting banks prefer us not to be independent, there is the Airdrie Savings Bank and another foreign bigish bank with a low key presence.

      Handelsbanken of Sweden

      Ethical policies and quite solid financially unlike RBS, BoS, Lloyds, Halifax, HSBC and Clydesdale

      http://www.handelsbanken.co.uk/?gclid=COrp2syv78ACFQQT7AodK2cASg

      They do internet banking and have a branches in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Stirling and Perth.

    223. James123 says:

      Just saw a reporter on the BBC talk about the event in Glasgow, he ended “we have to remember how peaceful this referendum has been”. I don’t remember hearing that when Murphy was egged, it was wall to wall evil nationalists must be stopped.

      On the other hand there were reports on Twitter last night that these thugs had attempted to burn down the Herald building due to their Sunday edition supporting independence, turns out it was a nearby electrical generator fire that was entirely coincidental. Just shows that we have to scrutinise everything.

    224. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      the 45+

      like we are growing again

    225. scottish_skier says:

      SNP just gained Mrs SS as a member.

    226. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Don’t feel much like going out today.

    227. tonymac says:

      ot sorry if mentioned from dr
      Betty Howard

      9:29 AM on 19/9/2014

      FEAR and lack of knowledge sharing by media…One thing still bugging me is the 4.2 mill registered voters vs the 3.9 mill voted…where are the missing registered voters,they surely all didn’t bloody stay home!………..An angry Scot lassie from Glasgow in Canada………….:(

      ————– Missing Voters ?

    228. john king says:

      Is it nice there James?
      Tipping it down with rain here!
      Matches the mood. 🙁

    229. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @Marker Post

      Digital TV station is possible. Look at the following and spread it around pls.

      http://www.indiegogo.com/campaigns/iscot-a-free-fearless-news-service-4-scotland

      I cannot help but shamelessly plug this as it is a much needed vehicle to help start the fight back.

    230. Graeme Kerr says:

      aye conan i quite liked it as well but bloody hell its defeatist. and angry. all ye’d get is folk saying the scary nat mob are at it again.

    231. Auld Sandy says:

      As an exile in England I feel limited in what I can do in terms of practical support, but I do have ideas to suggest.

      The BIG question of independence is lost for now – so maybe what independence would mean should be broken into SMALLER issues to fight for. There’s already been ideas for foundation of independent, honest news media be it in traditional or on-line formats. There’s already been on-line petitions on some topics associated with the referendum – I’d advocate more with specific focuses- one to remove trident from Scotland, one to set up a retail bank owned by the Scottish government in trust for the people of Scotland, one to set up an investment bank owned by the government of Scotland in trust for the people of Scotland and funded initially by oil revenues (which are so pathetically small as to be insignificant for the other component parts of the UK that no-one could possibly begrudge us such an institution!), one to transfer ALL tax raising and gathering powers and responsibilities to the Scottish government with the understanding that the Scottish Government will agree to pay for its share of the costs of shared UK services (eg defence, overseas embassies etc). Some of these would surely be supported by those who were stupid enough to want to stay in the Union.

      I believe these need to be initiated IN Scotland and if some can be set up where ONLY residents of Scotland can sign, that may be even better.

      In terms of protests and withdrawing custom from businesses who contributed to the manipulation of the electorate – do what you can individually and collectively (I will). I’m not sure how villainous the banks were, but how about organising a protest at bank’s head offices where everyone turns up with a Scottish £5 and insists on having it changed into £5 sterling? How about refusing specific Scottish notes (or would English notes be better?) in change from shops. (I believe there’s no such thing as ‘legal’ tender in Scotland – am I right?).

      Think that’s all I can think of just now. I’ll post other suggestions as and when I can.

    232. Restlessnative says:

      “On the terracing at the Dalmornock end on Saturday there was congregated a gang, thousands strong, including the dregs and scourings of filthy slumdom, unwashed yahoos, jailbirds, night hawks, won’t-works, ‘burroo barnacles’, and pavement pirates, all, or nearly all, in the scarecrow stage of verminous trampdom. This ragged army of insantitary pests was lavishly provided with orange and blue remnants, and these were flaunted in challenge as the football tide flowed this way or that. Practically with out cessation for ninety minutes or more, the vagabond scum kept up a strident howl of the ‘Boyne Water’ chorus. Nothing so designedly provoking, so maliciously insulting, or so beastially ignorant has ever been witnessed even in the wildest exhibitions of Glasgow Orange bigotry…..Blatantly filthy language of the lowest criminal type assailed the shocked ears of decent onlookers. There was no getting away from it, chanted as it was by thousands of voices in bedlamite yells. The stentorian use of filthy language is a crime against the law of the land.”

      Glasgow Observer 1924

      Some things never change.Scum.

    233. Shuggy says:

      Why don’t 1.6 million people each send an e-mail to Gordon Brown along the lines of:

      Mr Brown,

      You said the following:

      “The day after a No vote the timetable for further powers will be published as a motion before the UK Parliament. All UK parties will support the motion.”

      No such motion has been published.

      Your own party leader, Ed Milliband, does not support the motion.

      Kindly explain yourself.

      YOUR NAME.

      Then send similar to Ed Milliband (replacing “You said” with “Gordon Brown said”, etc).

      Keep it short, keep it simple. Be direct.

    234. gordoz says:

      For many this still feels like we’ve just witnessed a full term ‘still birth’.

      Tragic and sad as it is, most parents natrurally grieve ( as we are), but the gut feeling to be parents returns and they try again soon after with eventual success and all its rewards and elation.

      45% Is still remarakable folks, momentum to succeed is still with us via this base camp figure.

      Think we should reconvene the rallys on Sept 18th but stick to YES cities & areas such as Glasgow and Dundee.

      Lets keep this ticking over and let events take their course.

      We only have to keep ours side on side for now.

      45 % (only short by 6 % folks – thats nothing to start from next time 5 or 6 yrs my guess) 10 yrs and all the No voting greys will be in a ‘better'(togehter) place anyway (Sorry couldn’t resist)

      Gettin’ on ma sel you see!

    235. Ananurhing says:

      heedtracker
      “There are 60 million English people so ofcourse they dominate the whole of GB. It’s just logic”

      I think your misunderstanding me. I don’t have a problem with anything English, or the fact that their culture prevails on this island. I like English culture.

      I’m scunnered that this kind of Britnat hate fuelled vulgarity has emerged in our young people within hours of our hopes for a new future being dashed.

    236. Piggy says:

      Molly says:
      20 September, 2014 at 1:59 am
      “Anne, a hard lesson but I reckon the 70% of youngsters who voted yesterday have also just learned about our media “.

      Good point Molly. Totally agree.
      Young adults in our home now have a clearer view of what the media do.

    237. Ken500 says:

      Lose the ’45 tag. Self defeating.

    238. tonymac says:

      #the45 ? shoudn’t that be #the45+ or 45 and growing as #the55 who were clearly lied to and disenfranchised of their democratic vote will move to #yes albeit a bit late

      speech from brown soon fife

    239. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John King

      31 again

      but its raining in my heart.

    240. Albamac says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Followed your link to the DM and something really funny struck me about one of the pictures.

    241. Iain says:

      I feel lost, like I don’t have a country anymore. I have nothing for contempt for the No voters, I saw them at work all laughing and joking as if yesterday was just another day. I look at the future with terror, I see an agenda developing over which I have no say. I need some hope but there seems to be none, it saddens me to say by my thoughts now turn emigration. My wife and I now have plans to visit Canada this summer to see what it is like.

    242. John Young says:

      Patrick Hogg, Biographer of Robert Burns
      September 19, 2014 • 23:18
      Top Notch Mike.The total of votes cast for No by the over 65 yr group was close to 520,000! I spoke to lots of them who voted No due to serious fear about losing their pensions. Some thought their pension would be taken away by today – Friday. Very very sad day.

      YES SCOTLAND MUST TALK TO SNP ABOUT HOW TO WIN GENERAL ELECTION IN SCOTLAND 2015

      It’s time for the Yes Scotland Camp to consider the following idea in our progressive journey towards Independence.YES SCOTLAND should field candidates in every Scottish constituency at the UK general election next year and ask the SNP group of MP’s to also stand under the YES SCOTLAND banner. While this might seem sacrilegious to some SNP members, it is a way of making the next UK general election a referendum on Westminster rule and a consolidation of the fantastic achievements of the Yes Scotland campaign. A majority of MP’s elected under the banner of YES SCOTLAND – INDEPENDENCE in 2015 would be a clear mandate for Independence and if we achieved more than 50% of votes cast the case would be made for a declaration of Independence. We might even see a few MP’s like Ian Davidson losing their seats. The day of reckoning cometh…….if you agree please pass on to friends and post to your local SNP MSP a or councillor and YES SCOTLAND team so the idea can be discussed. We are not down; we are not defeated.

    243. Marker Post says:

      @ kendomacaroonbar

      Link doesn’t work, can you re-post? Thanks

    244. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      kendomacaroonbar says:
      20 September, 2014 at 9:42 am

      The link doesn’t work

    245. bookie from hell says:

      Gords EGO x 1000

    246. bookie from hell says:

      waffling

    247. Ken500 says:

      Gordon Brown is a delusional psychopath.

    248. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scotspine says: 20 September, 2014 at 12:26 am:

      “Anyone have any thoughts on a future crowdfunded Scottish Bank”

      Whoa! Scotspine, We already have the only really independent bank in the entire United Kingdom right here in Scotland.

      THE AIRDRIE SAVINGS BANK”

      https://airdriesavingsbank.com/

      Furthermore, we already have Scotland’s own currency right here in Scotland THE POUND STERLING

      The bank is the only independent bank in the United Kingdom, (Britain even), and the currency is every bit as much Scotland’s as it is England’s.

      Why not make the first a bigger and better bank and why give away the second as it is alread our own?

      I’m about to begin transferring my own accounts from the Bank of Scotland and the Halifax to the Airdrie Savings Bank but will need to deal with outgoing standing orders and pension transfer in from my works pension.

      I’ve also got things like ISAs Debit Cards and such like to deal with but there really is no big hurry. Far as I know, neither lot of banks is going anywhere soon.
      I’m for boosting Scotland’s own business’

    249. tonymac says:

      something about this brown speech on now makes me of stuff i have seen with former us president Nixon
      and just as believable

    250. tonymac says:

      oops: that should have been “think of stuff”

    251. Albamac says:

      I may have missed something.

    252. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Mealer at 6.47

      You are entirely and dangerously wrong.
      There were people with this sort of harebrained reasoning in the SNP around 1979.
      We should abandon independence and go for devolution they cried. Thankfully the party realised the folly of such a retreat and never deviated from its support for independence. Because of growing support for independence we got devolution ceded to us. Had we gone for devolution we would have got more powers for the Scottish office or some such shite.

      Apart from which the only way you get “Full Fiscal Autonomy” is through independence because foreign wars and Trident etc have full fiscal implications.

      We didn’t win on Thursday but we took another big step.
      Many of this generation of older people have let Scotland down. The new generation is ours and already they are indicating across all the social media that the battle is joined.

      In Cowal we will be meeting very soon to construct a new vehicle to carry the fight on made up of the parts of all the people that came to help us.
      This must be done quickly to reassure those who came to our side late for a wide variety of considerations that they didn’t make the wrong move.
      Already the media is talking up the NOs

    253. Albamac says:

      Sorry, folks, my head’s on backwards. Time for my nap, I think.

    254. Redrockg11 says:

      As a long term reader & lurker, I draw strength and inspiration from Wings. If I don’t post much it’s because someone has already articulated my feelings and I skim past ‘me too’ posts!

      I along with all the independence movement in ’79 was devastated and we took many years in the political wilderness until Labour impotence at the Thatcherite agenda gave us traction in the minds of the General electorate.

      I believe that we have reached a false summit on the steep and rocky independence road. Keep the faith keep working away and Harold McMillan’s ‘events, dear boy events’ will blow Cameron’s government to extinction. Perhaps the real summit will not take us as long to conquer?

      I know the McMillan quote is disputed , but it’s too good not to use.

    255. I went into a pub yesterday and the Rangers, orange people were ”celebrating”, one of them, I knew, and he greeted me as walked in.

      After I got my pint I asked him what anthem do we sing when Scotland plays rugby or football.

      He said ”God save the Queen”, it’s our countries anthem, its good for Northern Ireland its good for us.

      Finished my pint and left.

    256. Quentin Quale says:

      There was a time when a Saturday morning might have meant newspapers, tea and toast. It is much more enlightening, educational and intellectually rewarding to gather one’s information from Wings, Stu’s twitter, Pat Kane’s twitter and Mr Roger Quimbly for the light relief (steady, Paula Rose).
      And a huge thankyou for anyone who has the stomach to have watched the BBC and then post unfolding misrepresentation stories here!

      To quote Groucho Marx – “I find television very educational. Every time somebody turns it on, I go into the other room and read a book”.

    257. Graeme Doig says:

      Harry shanks 9.02

      Agreed

      Caz m

      Good to hear from you bud

    258. cailean99 says:

      In case anyone’s interested, I’ve just sent the following in with our TV Licence cancellation:

      “Our family has been revolted by the corrupt coverage by most of the UK media of the Scottish Referendum. Living as we do in Glasgow, we could see for ourselves when they were guilty of bias, and sometimes what could only have been outright lies. We no longer wish to support the BBC or other UK broadcast media in any way and are now cancelling our TV Licence. We have not owned a television or video recorder since June. We rarely watch live TV online and will not do so again as of today.”

    259. Cyc says:

      Yes! #the45+ is the way forward!

    260. fred blogger says:

      Ken500
      yeah you’re right!

    261. ronnie anderson says:

      @ John Young have you just come to this campain this week. YES Scotland is a corperate offshoot of the SNP, we have more People on WOS that can outthink & orginize better than YES SCOTLAND, the grassroots campain made they,re mark & put the corparate payed body to shame,1st mistake Big Fancy Office in Hope St cheaper Office property outwith the Citys.

    262. ewen says:

      Email sent to Broon entitled The Vow.

      Dear Gordon,

      The daily record published a timeline for the vow to the Scottish people, a timeline you proposed. It stated that a parliamentary motion would be published in the UK parliament on the 19th of September.

      Forgive me if I am wrong but, as today is now the 20th, there doesn’t seem to have been any motion published. Furthermore, It would seem as if the vow isn’t worth the paper it was printed on.

      I wouldn’t like to propose that the Right Hon member for Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath was trying to hoodwink the people of Scotland but it might be a good idea for you to go down to Westminster and table this motion.

      Scotland has seen promises broken before and will not wait 20 years for this one to be fulfilled. We will be waiting for the next stage of the timetable but I have a funny feeling it isn’t going to happen either.

      A very disappointed Scotland

      Ewen Cameron

    263. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I believe it is imperative to establish to our population as quickly and as strongly as possible that they were lied to over and over again.
      Our media didn’t do it and wont do it
      We must do it ourselves – and we must get a written media as a matter of some urgency as even though the dead tree press is in retreat it will remain a very powerful presence for many years yet

    264. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      The truth is that the No campaign and their lies meant we had to go the EU court (remember ‘Clear Legal Basis’ ?)
      to get a ruling on their claims
      “Scotland cant be in the Euro” : Article 4 (we are already a member of the Euro)
      “Scotland cant keep the pound ” : We have our own mint – unless the Scottish parliament repeals Act 14.
      “Scotland cant have a currency union” : We have a currency union under Article 16.
      “Scotland has a £5bn debt hole ” : In order to ascertain our legal debt as per Article 9
      we obviously need a commissioner to total the Amount of the Equivalents as per article 15 – enter Lord Smith of Kelvin.

      But then you cant tell people the result of the ruling until afterwards – but now the deal has been done.
      Or the inside of the Sun on voting morning might have been pointing out the above Articles and their meaning.

    265. Anne says:

      Wings site needed more now than ever – we do need to build on all the work of YES our short term objective is to get all labour MPS and MSPs out of Holyrood and WM and labour are no longer a viable political party .
      The YES groups should develop the alternative ideology which if it becomes the dominant ideology will stifle the WM ideology – in this sense. Communicative action is key – spreading the message far and wide building on the communication networks already established – so many engaged bright articulate people on the YES side- we will have another referendum and all the scare tactics will no longer be relevant

    266. Craig Murray would be a source of information on how to do a lot of things.

      I do worry about Craig’s health as he hasn’t endeared himself to tthe establishment.

    267. Fiona says:

      @ heedtracker

      Generally I value your contributions and your commitment. But these repeated calls for punishment of the elderly are truly depressing me.

      The scottish government has made principled decisions about the benefits you now decry and the differences are one part of the demonstration that things can be done differently and better if we have the will.

      There are many south of the border who resent those differences and who believe that they are paying for them. They wish to level down, which seems to be a common response from there whenever they see something better. That is part of a mindset I do not understand. But you are calling for the same thing and you are doing it on the basis of a stereotype. I do not want to live in a Scotland which is run not on the basis of the worth of the individual but on attributed characteristics of groups. That is definition of prejudice and it is part of the divide and rule which is so effective when deployed by our elites. I do not think that you would wish to uphold the demonisation of the poor as scroungers of of muslims as terrorists: why do you feel this is acceptable

      For myself the whole debate about benefits is conducted on the wrong turf. We do not pay benefits because people do not have a sufficient income: that is the means testing agenda so beloved of our red tories. We pay benefits because all of our citizens deserve a decent life and freedom from fear, yes. A life that enables participation in those activities which are taken for granted as part of normal life. It is our shame that we do not in fact ensure that for the poorest,and pay very low benefits of every stripe compared with other countries. And we pretend that we cannot afford it though we could afford far better right after the war, when we were supposedly on our economic knees.

      That is a foundation for universal benefits. But we also pay benefits because we recognise that some people have costs which are greater than people in comparable positions have to pay, no matter where in the income ladder they happen to be. Disabled people have greater expenses and there is no reason why they should have to live poorer lives because of disablity. Elderly people also have greater expenses, as do parents. Why should the not expect enhanced support in acknowledgement of that? I do not want any citizen to depend on an absolute minimum, determined by folk who do not have to live on that minimum, and continually eroded by liars like IDS who said he could live on £52 a week but did not even have the bottle to try it, as Matthew Parris famously did many years ago

      We do not support our elderly because they are saints or because we are saints. We support them (and all the other groups) because it is the right thing to do.

      I cannot agree with your call for revenge cuts.

    268. Blair paterson says:

      I wonder how those who voted no wil feel when their sons, brothers , e.t.c. Are wounded or killed in the future wars started by Westminster you had the chance to avoid all that but you bottled out ,so be it on your own heads may god forgive you I never will ., as it says in the song what will I., THINK of ME the day that i Die I know what I think of you

    269. tonymac says:

      Wings as free Newspaper sponsored (is red bull Scottish ?)

    270. Restlessnative says:

      “I went into a pub yesterday and the Rangers, orange people were ”celebrating”, one of them, I knew, and he greeted me as walked in.”
      Two jubilant old cretins came in to my local yesterday draped in butchers aprons and singing “They’ll always be an England”.The looks they got from the assembled patrons before we turned our backs on them ensured they didn’t stay for a second pint.

    271. John Young says:

      Ronnie Anderson I have been in this campaign all my life. Sure I’ve met you at PQ demos.

    272. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      You all don’t get it we did win. The Queen gave permission for Disagreements in rulings regarding the Treaty of Union to be decided on in the EU court.This meant that their campaign claims of No campaign had to go the EU court (remember ‘Clear Legal Basis’ ?) to get a ruling on their claims

      “Scotland cant be in the Euro” : Article 4 (we are already a member of the Euro)
      “Scotland cant keep the pound ” : We have our own mint – unless the Scottish parliament repeals Act 14.
      “Scotland cant have a currency union” : We have a currency union under Article 16.
      “Scotland has a £5bn debt hole ” : In order to ascertain our legal debt as per Article 9
      we obviously need a commissioner to total the Amount of the Equivalents as per article 15 – enter Lord Smith of Kelvin.

      But then you cant tell people the result of the ruling until afterwards – but now the deal has been done.
      Or the inside of the Sun on voting morning might have been pointing out the above Articles and their meaning.

    273. G H Graham says:

      Nearly 800,000 Scots, almost 1 in 5 of the electorate, didn’t even bother to vote in this referendum.

      Consequently, only 37% of the eligible electorate backed a YES while 45% voted NO. The gap therefore is actually 8 points, not 10 so the change in attitudes needed to reverse a future result may not be so great as perhaps we previously thought.

      Yet, despite two years of highly visible campaigning, a significant number of Scots, seem not to care one bit about democracy. I can only imagine that they will accept ANY result just so long as they think it doesn’t affect them directly. This must be addressed before we can claim that we live in a truly engaged society.

      So there are two challenges that lie ahead.

      1. Reaching out to this significant minority who decided that even a once in a three hundred year event still wasn’t rare enough or exciting to stimulate a response.

      2. Addressing the primary motives that NO voters had for retaining the status quo (in order of importance) …

      …..a) Currency
      …..b) Pensions
      …..c) NHS
      …..d) Taxes
      …..e) Defence

      (Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/7-fascinating-insights-into-why-scotland-voted-against-indep#pwpnir)

    274. Fiona says:

      One thing that struck me, watching the scenes at George Square and reading some of the gloating comments from unionists here and elsewhere yesterday. Those people are not happy nor even content.

      Had Scotland voted yes there would have been joy and dancing on the streets: as the tone of the gatherings before the vote showed, there was a lot of positive feeling in that group.

      I am convinced there is no equivalence: I cannot imagine that yes voters would have troubled to go to no sites to gloat or to insult. Happy people do not do that: they might be insensitive in expressing their feelings but they don’t go out of their way to lord it over those who voted differently.

      All I see from those unionists is anger and triumphalism. It does not seem to me that this really comes from the referendum or the vote: for there should be a deep satisfaction in them, and some magnanimity in victory.

      I conclude that these people are fuelled by “free floating anger” which attaches itself to anything which happens to provide an excuse. It is sad that they do not seem to ask themselves why their lives are so wretched as to make them feel that way.

    275. Robert Peffers says:

      @

      Weecopey says: 20 September, 2014 at 12:31 am:

      “Have been ashamed tonight, the yes people had a party with singing and dancing then Scotland bottled and voted no and we have riots in Glasgow with people getting knifed, better together I THINK NOT!!!”

      You mean like this, Weecopey?

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scenes-violence-break-out-george-4290949

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scottish-referendum-unionists-and-independence-supporters-separated-by-police-in-glasgows-george-square-9745333.html

    276. Krackerman says:

      SqueuedPerspextive – what are you talking about – can you explain all that in laymens terms – I’ve heard nothing like that but would like to know more.

    277. Robert Peffers says:

      @h_johnny says:20 September, 2014 at 12:40 am:

      “*paper not building sorry.”

      Naw! You were right the first place, h_Johnny. It was a generator behind the building. No idea if it was arson or accident.

    278. Robert Peffers says:

      schrodingers cat says: 20 September, 2014 at 1:06 am:
      “i suggest bbc first”

      I suggest anyone with accounts with the United Kingdom banks who are situated in Scotland but threatened to leave should shift their accounts to the only independent British Bank that just happenes to be situated in Scotland : –
      The Airdrie Savings Bank

      Read about them here –
      https://airdriesavingsbank.com/

    279. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart says:

      Well, I’ve had a sleep and feel a bit better.

      First of all, I agree with everything Fiona said at 11:27am.

      I’ve been pondering all night about this – why did we lose? Maybe we were too naive, talking among ourselves, getting carried away. There really was a “silent majority”. Last week, a friend on Facebook who I would have had down as a definite yes, came out with an angry rant about being part of the “bullied” silent majority, going on & on about intimidation, ugly scenes, disgraceful bullying at Pacific Quay etc. He is an intelligent guy yet here he was believing all the media spin. So, that is what we are up against. btw, I was really impressed with Laura Bicker during the count when Carmichael tried to get a dig in about the “disgraceful” Yes campaign intimidating BBC journalists, and she said (paraphrasing): “I really must interject but as a BBC journalist, I have never felt intimidated!”

      So, the media (as we all know), is our main enemy. When we start going on & on about bias etc, people just stick us in the “tin foil hat” category. I don’t know how to get round that. The BBC is such a respected institution, even after the Jimmy Savile scandal etc. Even my family, after pointing out bias, alternative sites et, still watch the news and buy the papers and think it’s just me off on a silly rant. I really don’t know how we change that. We could start our own channel or newspaper, but it would take years to become an accepted, believable, credible part of the media. I think we need people already part of it to help with this.

      The people I know who voted No, did so because they couldn’t see the need for change, and didn’t want to upset their nice, juicy apple carts. It’s alright us going on about the injustices of foodbanks and the humiliation of ATOS etc, but unless people are down there experiencing it, they fob it off, believing all the Daily Mail style bile. Sad but true. I couldn’t speak to my No voting siblings yesterday. They really could not understand why I was so upset and dejected. It was a loss of hope for me, someone just diagnosed with a chronic, life-limiting illness, terrified at the prospect of another 5-10yrs of callous austerity and the prospect of jumping through ATOS hoops. For them, today is just the same as tomorrow. Nothing has changed for them.

      Already people are proclaiming it a victory for democracy, 80%+ turnout!, but if people do not understand nor care enough to see the need for change, that is not a victory for democracy, it is a victory for apathy.

      Also, to win, we need to win big. I think 45%, considering where we started from, is an amazing achievement, but even if we had won with 55%, that’s an awful lot of people who would have been horrified & terrified about it the next morning. We still have a lot of work to do, opening eyes & minds. But 45%. That’s amazing. Well on the way. It won’t seem such a scary prospect next time.

      So, more positively! I’ve always been political, but never a member of anything. I’m considering joining CND or the Greens. The amount we are about to waste on Trident 2 is utterly immoral, and I want to do everything I can to try and stop that.

      I already don’t pay my TV licence, or buy newspapers, sadly stopped buying Tunnocks teacakes, and John Lewis & Asda are now on my list to avoid too. It won’t make much difference sure, but it will make me feel better. I think I may also move my banking to ASB.

      I like the idea of us, the 45ers, to begin with at least, in these next few weeks as we lick our wounds and form a plan. However, while I like the name, it is by its nature exclusive and divisive, so not for the long term I wouldn’t think. We have a momentum here, and I don’t think it can be stopped. I’m feeling more positive this morning! 🙂

    280. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      Why didnt the sun choose sides ?
      And Why did no one talk about the money ?
      Why was Swinney not challenging the figures on this and revenue and blah blah blah.

      Because it was a waste of time. Without the legal right to challenge numbers by inspecting the Books there would be no point.
      Also the other main arguements of Westminster likewise need a legal basis and that legal basis is the Treaty of Union.

      Do you realise how Yes played such a positive campaign and stuck to the rules that when No broke them there were consequences?

      The truth is that the No campaign and their claims meant we had to go the EU court (remember ‘Clear Legal Basis’ ?)
      to get a ruling on-
      “Scotland cant be in the Euro” : Article 4 (we are already a member of the Euro)
      “Scotland cant keep the pound ” : We have our own mint – unless the Scottish parliament repeals Act 14.
      “Scotland cant have a currency union” : We have a currency union under Article 16.
      “Scotland has a £5bn debt hole ” : In order to ascertain our legal debt as per Article 9
      we obviously need a commissioner to total the Amount of the Equivalents as per article 15 – enter Lord Smith of Kelvin.

      The Edinburgh agreement was legally binding so breaches have consequences one of which is article 15 which basically says we can

      send in the auditors to check its fair. As article 258 of the EU treaty says we can (and we are bound by article 3 & 4) to abide

      by European Law

      But then you cant tell people the result of the ruling until afterwards – but now the deal has been done.
      Or the inside of the Sun on voting morning might have been pointing out the above Articles and their meaning.
      What was needed was a way to legally and officially sort out what was due according to the Treaty of Union.

      That meant we got to check the books – And what do we find?

    281. @Robert Peffers – Thanks for that link to the Airdrie Savings bank. I am going to enquire about it on Monday.
      I will have to find out how easy it would be to get to a branch. I’ll research over this weekend. Fancy a boy from Kelty being clever in financial matters haha.
      Fae Cowdenbeath myself

    282. David G says:

      RE. Jeannie’s post at 12.01 p.m.

      Personally I wouldn’t close an RBS account .. what I would do is use it for direct debits and standing orders. A few days before they’re due pay just enough funds into the account to cover those DDs and SOs .. let them do the work but don’t leave funds lying in the accounts so that they make any profit.

      If you have savings with RBS etc. transfer those funds to a
      savings account with your local credit union where it will do the most good for your community.

      We might have lost the referendum but we’re not going away
      and we’ve all learned enough to watch politicians like hawks. Think of all those 16 and 17 year olds who’ve had their eyes opened to how the system works. A good number of them are going to be eligible to vote in the next General Elections and will do so without blinkers.

      Stu, I’m glad to see you posting so much. Nobody could have worked harder in the last two years so I really think you deserve a break to recharge your batteries … Go on holiday, we’ll keep an eye on things while you’re away.

    283. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hmm. Wee Gordon’s promise for a timetable for further powers has NOT materialised. Who’d have thunk it!

      Apparently they have already passed plans to CUT child benefit.

      Osborne is now saying that the £25 Billion cuts that we were to expect is no longer going to happen … it’s now going the be £37 Billion!

      Cameron has already said that there will be NO 2nd reading of the Scotland Bill until AFTER the General Election next May. How convenient.

      RED Ed is refusing to work with the Tories over their plans for more powers for Scotland.

      Backbenchers are saying they will NOT support any more powers for Scotland.

      Tories are forming yet ANOTHER committee on Scotland. YAWN!

      Hey I think things have worked out very well for Scotland don’t think folks?

      I mean people voted NO because they BELIEVED Brown, Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and Darling and what happened … Scotland was well and truly SHAFTED!

    284. Doug D says:

      On topic (sort of). Keep it coming Stu! We may not have won, but we certainly didn’t lose. There’s momentum for change and people who will try to make it happen. And then there’s the guarantee/pledge/vow that Westminster will let us down. And even if they don’t, we’re energised and we’ll have ended up with a radicalised population and more autonomy to showcase how we can run ourselves.

      The change comes from us. I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to try to form a new political party, new Scottish TV/ Newspaper, get more voters registered and voting. We lost, but now we have data on how we lost and where. We can try to make the circumstances happen that mean we get another go, and know how to make it work when we do.

    285. Robert Peffers says:

      @Caesar!mac says:20 September, 2014 at 3:23 am:

      “Don’t know what’s going wrong. Posted a comment and got a 503. Tried again and got a duplication warning – “looks like you’ve already said that”. Well, if I did, WP is keeping it secret.”

      Always try a right click on the page and then click refresh on the drop down list.
      Then if that has no effect try shutting down the machine and restarting it. then refresh again.

    286. ewen says:

      I think we believed in the power of social media a bit too much. Yes it worked with the under 60s but didn’t penetrate the demographic group that beat us, the pensioners.

      Now, that can be classed as a sweeping generalisation. We all know over 60s who are very active online but the majority are only using their computers for email and Skype.

      The strength of social media is organising the footsoldiers. The speed in which Yes could get people where it was needed confounded the unionists but they may have learned from their mistakes. Milliband is talking up how the people must decide blah blah and tons of discussion on msn. I don’t think they have the ability to emulate Yes. They lack the passion and commitment.

      We have to keep the networks we have created alive, both online and in the real world. We will need them soon. We also need to find a means to reach the “quiet majority” .

      In 2017 there may be a referendum on Europe. This will be the next battleground. Does Scotland want to be dragged out of Europe by a larger part of the UK? This will be the democratic deficit in action.

      We must prepare and foster Scottish opposition to this democratic deficit. We need a majority of Yes mps elected at the GE and return a Yes majority to Holyrood to protect the people of Scotland. Much as it pains me, even the deluded no voters.

      Are we ready? Can we do it?

      YES WE CAN

    287. Lesley-Anne says:

      I wonder.

      Now that Brown, Darling, Cameron, Milliband, Clegg have ALL been shown to be the biggest band of lying bastards ever in the history of these islands will it make it make it easier for the YES group next time around. What I mean by this is that when the next independence referendum happens, and it WILL happen folks rest assured, WE will have ALL the evidence we need to stand up and call them all LIARS to their face, in the TV studio or wherever because we will have the PROOF!

      In the referendum battle just past everything we said was sort of hearsay if you get my drift. In the next referendum everything we say about them will no longer be hearsay but actually FACT because we have this evidence.

      Any wavering NO voter can just be pointed to the *ahem* promises and then to the TRUTH of what actually happened within the first 24 hours.

    288. Lesley-Anne says:

      On the issue about kicking out the LIARS of Labour etc. I agree that everyone who was not a member of one of the YES supporting parties before should seriously consider joining one now. With regards to next year’s GE and the 2016 GE would it be possible I wonder for ALL the YES parties to join together and fight as ONE party. What I mean is that they stand as members of say the YES party rather than the Greens, SNP,SSP and the like. If this were possible then we could gather together ALL the voters of each individual party behind ONE candidate rather than a multitude of candidates.

      In past elections it has been the multitude of candidates that has let the ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s of Labour in. We must fight this and in my view the best way is to fight collectively under ONE banner!

      I was absolutely amazed at the true professionalism of ALL parties involved in the YES campaign and it is this vision that I see as working again AGAINST the likes of Labour. With ALL the YES groups standing as the YES party say then individual party differences are put aside and despite the ("Quizmaster" - Ed) efforts of the like of the BBC they can knock on the head any attempt to drive a wedge between the parties because everyone is united for one cause!

      I know that this is a long shot and will require a lot of coordination but we already have that, it’s what has been running for the last two years. I believe this IS possible and it WILL win.

    289. Cod says:

      I was just wondering – could someone with some design / photoshop skills make a “First 45” patch, you know, like the NASA patches, or military patches?

      “First 45” for obvious reasons, but maybe someone could have a better name too? Although, I quite like “First 45”, it says what it needs to.

    290. Kevin1 says:

      I agree
      Voting with a pen didn’t work, now im voting with my feet. Still got a lot of work to do.
      Ive canceled BBC licence fee, folk now closing RBS accounts, move Standard Life policy. No more shopping at John Lewis or B&Q. Give business to Aldi and Lidl. Check CBI site for members and avoid using any companies that are members. More Business for Scotland if they could maybe go with a
      Logo to know who they were if I’m looking to buy goods or services, as these are the kinds of companies that will help the Scottish economy to grow and create jobs – not buying newspapers apart from Sunday Herald. Kx

    291. Ken500 says:

      What is coming, as a priority, is blanket Internet coverage for Scotland. That’s the way to do it. The YES literature came out to late. Don’t delay the next time.

      SKY is the next to go for their treachery. BBC is only for keeping an eye on the enemy. Watch as little as possible.

    292. Kevin1 says:

      What was
      Missing was clarity of what exactly the financial position is.
      What exactly is the tax they pull in from Scotland?
      This was the weapon by better together, clarity required.
      Is the currency question going to be challenged now?

    293. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh goody goody!

      I’ve received a nice wee personal e-mail from RED Ed. Oops sorry I meant BLUE Ed, I forgot he changed colour a while back. 😛

      Lesley-Anne,

      I am delighted and proud that the people of Scotland have made this historic decision to stay in the United Kingdom.

      This was a vote for social justice, for our NHS, and for unity — because we are better together.

      There must be stronger powers for the Scottish Parliament, but we must also change the way the UK is governed and who it is run for.

      We need more good jobs and job security. We need decent wages and an end to poverty pay. We need a better future for our young people so they can believe they can have a better life than their parents.

      There will be many across Scotland who are disappointed today. I am determined to show those people that the Labour Party can be the place for all our aspirations for fairness, our families and our country.

      The last few weeks have been about keeping our country together. The next eight months will be about showing how we can change our country together.

      There is only one party that can do it — and that is the Labour Party.

      Lesley-Anne — we need your help if we’re going to change this country. Are you with us?

      Yes – I’m with Labour

      Maybe – I haven’t made up my mind

      No – I support another party

      Thanks,

      Ed

    294. Lesley-Anne says:

      Now should I send wee BLUE Ed a reply to that e-mail. I mean he was generous enough to sit down and personally write to me after all. Awe shucks why not, after all as we are all better together it would be rude of me not to reply, right? 😉

      Ed,

      Are you for REAL?

      This was a vote for social justice, for our NHS, and for unity

      Really, are you for REAL?

      Social Justice?
      Where was the social justice when YOU were in power. The only social justice people in Scotland saw during YOUR 13 hyears in power was YOU snuggling up to the bankers and millionaires!

      WHOSE NHS Ed?

      You and your Blue Labour cronies have DESTROYED the NHS in England and Wales. Now thanks to all the LIES and BETRAYALS by YOU and your cohorts the proud and INDEPENDENT SCOTTISH NHS will now also start to be privatised. Congratulations Ed YOU have DESTROYED our NHS. WE will NEVER forgive you over this NOR will we forget!

      There must be stronger powers for the Scottish Parliament, but we must also change the way the UK is governed and who it is run for.

      Listen Ed when you tell LIES you are still supposed to move your mouth! You are talking garbage here man and NO ONE believes a word you are saying! For TOO long you and your cohorts have pulled the wool over the eyes of the people of Scotland. NEVER AGAIN! Labour in Scotland is DEAD! You have lied to us all once too often now it is OUR turn and our retribution is coming!

      I am determined to show those people that the Labour Party can be the place for all our aspirations for fairness, our families and our country.

      Whose aspirations Ed?

      NOT my aspirations I would NEVER trust you to open the door to ANY of my aspirations you are not worthy enough!

      Whose families Ed?

      NOT my family. You are NOT worthy of licking the soles of my shoes Ed. I have standards and you do not even come close to meeting MY standards for sole lickers!

      Whose Country Ed?
      NOT my country Ed. My country and her people have standards and you are NOT even close to meeting these standards. Just as an elephant NEVER forgets WE, the people of Scotland will NEVER forget what YOU and your cronies have done to Scotland this day!

      The last few weeks have been about keeping our country together. The next eight months will be about showing how we can change our country together.

      Well you are right about that Ed. You certianly did that with all the collusion of the press and BBC! You are, surprisingly correct about the next eight months. These are going to be the most turbulent eight months ever. Labour is DEAD in Scotland and there is absolutely NOTHING that you can do to change that. You have shot your last bolt in Scotland as a believable political leader.

      After all the shafting of the people of Scotland you have audacity and down right effrontery to ask if I am with YOU?

      Let me give you a wee clue here Ed. RE -READ this e-mail. I think you’ll find one or two wee clues there to help you out.

      Lesley-Anne

    295. Kevin1 says:

      John young, great points.
      Can the campaign groups now get together and tackle
      These better together campaign assertions. Time for
      Clarity, surely we need to know what we contribute
      to the public purse.

    296. Lesley-Anne says:

      We have a GE to fight in May. Let’s get ALL parties and groups who stood shoulder to shoulder under the YES Scotland banner to stick together. We need to show Westminster that Scotland is NOT finished. We CAN do this. SNP, SSP, Greens, LfI, Solidarity, Jim Sillars, Tommy Sherridan and everyone else who either fought directly under the YES Scotland banner or from outside get together PLEASE, for the sake of Scotland and form a new Westminster party, the YES party. Fight together like you have never fought together before. For the future of Scotland the people need you all to stick together. DON’T fight each other in May fight TOGETHER as the YES party. We can DESTROY Labour in Scotland. It is no longer the party the people of Scotland believed in.

    297. macart763m says:

      So Scotland’s Champion, looking like the agenda driven arsehole we always knew it to be and it only took a single day.

      That’s got to be a ‘Record’.

    298. Scotty Land says:

      Kalmar,cuilean and Caz-M, well said. Knew these fascists would come out from beneath the stones they belong if there was a victory for no or yes. They kept a low profile when debate was on as they have no contribution to logic one way or the other. What the do have is a built in hatred and wollow in the idea of trouble and triumphantism/violent protest. Kalmar, don’t know where they will get the Ferry to Drumchpel though. These guys had their Drumchapel banner and RFC flags and were RFC supporters as well as some of their fellow thugs. These guys give decent RFC supporters a real bad name, however this is not a tny minority … this is a majority with this mindset. I suppose September will be another Annual hate bash walk, pencilled in as an extension to the “Marching Season”

    299. hopper69 says:

      Don’t treat the 45% as a defeat.Treat it as a staging post.

    300. Lesley-Anne says:

      Absolutely Hopper. Friday’s result is NOT the end it is only the START! Next up kick out the 53 ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s from Westminster!

    301. Albamac says:

      Here’s the DM image I mentioned earlier. The thing that struck me, as soon as I looked at it, is inset bottom left.

    302. Lesley-Anne says:

      That guy with the flare must be feeling ever so proud of himself Caesar!mac. I mean standing there flare in hand and covering his face … COWARD!

    303. Scotty Land says:

      Well done Daily R and those lying leaders and gordon Brown to sell a Country from it’s people. If only six percent didnt listen to them on a devo max type agenda we would be a Real Country instead of a “Region” shame on you. Turning point in my life too. Parents and me bought the R for over 50yrs, last edition was purchased on Thursday. Voted labour for 30 yeays, last vote cast at last election. Think we need to stand for the YES party at next Election, especially next Local one and get rid of coalition troughers. Labour and tories in a coalition to look after Local Government, you couldn’t make it up. They would obviously sell their soul to the devil to ensure they get a snout fill. Ed already backtracking, the people were conned, the prize was won. Now labour in scotland will get shafted,deservedly so. England next then the whole county will be handed over to the fascists and Tory boys. Stand up Ukip/Tory coalition. I hope Labour are proud of the scenes in George Sq, sign of things to come. Maybe see them doing a ritual burning of the red fag outside John Smith House next and hanging up the butchers apron next.

    304. Jim Dunckley says:

      From a Welsh perspective I’m absolutely gutted for Scotland the day after the “No” vote. And while the antics of rampanging NI Loyalist boneheads might be what’s on people’s minds this morning, don’t forget Wales.

      We organised a demo (probably not reported by the BBC in Scotland 😉 ) in support of a a Scottish “Yes” vote, and events in Scotland got people down here talking about Welsh Independence. Wales is an ancient nation, in some ways older than Scotland, but many of us down here in “Cymru fach” look to Scotland as a kind of “older brother”. You have given us leadership, hope, and a whiff of freedom, and once you’ve had that whiff it’s hard to forget.

      If you roll over now, they really have won. You have built a movement, and vote aside, that movement is still there. If you go home now, you’ve thrown all that away.

      Somebody further up pointed out that in a few years time there will be a “In/Out” referendum on European membership. EU membership is important for Wales as well as Scotland. We need a grass-roots campaign down here in Wales to ensure that come the vote, Wales has made it clear that we are being dragged out of the EU by England against the collective will of the Welsh people. If we can do that at the same time as Scotland then two constituent nations of the so-called “Union” will have firmly nailed their colours to the mast.

      “Divide and Rule” is the British game, but remember that can work both ways. Look forward, not back as everything is there to play for.

    305. Andrew Haddow says:

      Albert Herring’s gone on another bender, so I’m taking over.

      Anyway, we really don’t like this “45” stuff. We are far more than 1.6 million or 45%. Some of us may have been scared into voting against our interests by a coterie of lying self-serving bastard scumbags, but we should never do anything to exclude ordinary Scots, who made a difficult decision in good, if blind, faith.

    306. Tom Foyle says:

      Calling the 45 a divisive movement is wrong. Scotland’s already divided. westminster is the divider.
      Having pity, empathy, forgiveness for the rest is stupid. They all had access to the same information, they just chose to ignore it for their own reasons, whatever they may have been. When Scotland’s economy collapses, I shall shed no tears for them.

      L-A, I’ve always admired your wit and spirit, but I’m afraid it really is over. England will never again make the mistake of putting their biggest resource in such a vulnerable position. They were complacent – perhaps rightly so. But those rich fucks didn’t get their money by making the same mistake twice.

      And, at the end of the day, I’m afraid the bastards were right.
      Scots are too poor, too wee and too stupid.

      Maybe, in 50 or 100 years’ time, when Scots are starving and dying of malnutrition, she’ll become free of those southern animals and their ilk, but it will be achieved only with violence and death. And there’ll be nothing worth fighting for anyway.

      Although it is selfish, I’m glad I won’t be alive to see it. It’s bad enough watching Scotland commit suicide once, I couldn’t watch it again.

      I feel like I’m leaving my family. I will miss you all, but I can’t visit again. It’s too painful reading your hope when I know that there is none.

      I shall still always wear my wee badge of freedom, though.

      Take care everyone.

    307. Lesley-Anne says:

      What the hell is going on?

      It is taking for ever for my posts to appear, I have to sign in every time I put up a post and now I’m being told that I can’t connect to database?

    308. Albamac says:

      @Tom Foyle

      Maybe, in 50 or 100 years’ time, when Scots are starving and dying of malnutrition, she’ll become free of those southern animals and their ilk, but it will be achieved only with violence and death>/i>”.

      OTT much, Tom?

    309. Wageslave says:

      Are we going for an independent Scotland or a fairer Scotland?

    310. BornOptimist says:

      I don’t believe this is the end of the road. The result of the referendum was indeed a major blow but I doubt if any political commentator or politician could have foreseen what would turn the tables. The Yes campaign was faced with what probably qualifies as psychological warfare and at the final hurdle a speech from Gordon Brown that would have pleased any demagogue. The fact that the leaders of the three major UK parties produced a Vow and, together with the grandstanding of Gordon Brown, managed to convince a notable proportion of the public that the British Constitution could be deconstructed and reconstructed within months was totally unpredictable – well off the scale of likely challenges Yes and the SNP expected to face.

      The complexity of the process facing Westminster politicians of all parties surely provides the means for their proposals to be derailed. Many politicians are already resisting their leaders and England is now stirring, somewhat, and it is important that Scots Indy supporters do not remain downhearted for long. I think we lost the battle, but next time we will win the war, peacefully.

      The divide between Yes and No supporters is now clear, as are demographic groups primarily responding to fear and uncertainty. If these factors can be addressed, the Yes voters retain their faith, more people obtain their news from alternative media – and the rules of any future referendum not changed – it will not be too difficult to convince an additional 6 or 7% of the electorate. And a fair proportion of my generation, those most resistant to change, will have passed away (but not me, I hope).

    311. Steve Smart says:

      The worrying thing here is that the UK Parliament is in recess from the 12th September for the Conference season – as a current MP, I assume Gordon Brown knew this. So why commit to the above date when he knew the UK parliament wasn’t sitting? http://www.parliament.uk/…/business-faq-page/recess-dates/

    312. PickledOnionSupper says:

      Sorry if anyone’s already said this above (I only had a quick scroll through the most recent comments so I might have missed it), but the UK Parliament is in recess at the moment for conference season: recess started 12th September, Parliament reconvenes 13th October. So presumably when Clegg, Miliband & Cameron made their ‘Vow’ they knew even then it couldn’t be delivered. Presumably they’ll be keen to have an emergency recall of Parliament so they can keep their ‘promise’? Aye, right.

      Annoyed I never spotted this deception at the time. Did anyone else pick up on it?

    313. Ian says:

      PickledOnionSupper
      http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/292842-better-together-parties-put-forward-motion-for-more-scottish-powers/

      If parliament is in recess then how can stv’s report that the Unionist parties have published the motion (of course no mention in the article that that they are a day late) be true?

    314. Scotthebrave says:

      This may be a silly thought but here goes. If the ‘vow’ was printed and signed by people and the agreement was vote no and you get this, and people have voted no on that basis is that not like a contract an offer is made and then the person agrees, and both parties are bound by the agreement – however either party breaches the contract it then becomes void and the injured party seeks re-address. So can we not treat it like a legal contract and seek the re-adress as a new referendum. We simply need to then find those who voted no soley on the basis of that vow/printed signed statement. Just a thought.

    315. Cod says:

      @Andrew Haddow

      My “First45” tag is not about being divisive. In fact, it’s intended to be anything but. The “First” refers to the fact that we were the first to vote Yes, but also infers we will not be the last to vote Yes, the allusion being that there WILL be another vote, and when that comes the First45 will not stand alone – we will take our brothers and sisters who voted No on the strength of the promises made, but not kept, by Westminster, with us.

    316. James Dow says:

      Alex Clark Welcome and congratulations now you are you. And as such your voice carries more weight and earns more respect. Never be afraid to be yourself.
      Fear is always your enemies best weapon if you are prepared to succumb to it.

    317. James Dow says:

      Scotland this has always been about one of mankind’s most basic instincts FEAR OF LOSS with 1.6M voices and feet to go with that voice FEAR OF LOSS as a response has just been transferred to you the 1.6m USE IT by isolating every business that relies on you to exist and denying them your custom. I promise you it won’t take long for the contempt directed towards you to be reversed and given back in spades if you have the will and discipline to maintain it. Revenge is sweet it always makes you feel warm inside.
      Start getting warm Scotland

    318. James Dow says:

      Tom Foyle reply
      That sentiment TOO WEE, TOO POOR, TOO STUPID was obviously coined by a Scot. for if it had been an Englishman it would have read TOO WEE, TOO POOR, TOO STUPID, TOO SCARED.

    319. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      Ok I have figured out what is going on
      The EU have repealed the 1978 Interpretation Act
      Go look at the effect on legislation

      Its amazing – go read
      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/schedule/1



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