The candle
Posted on
September 20, 2014 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
ouch
The candle has already been re-lit. The Famous 45 who voted Yes are being sparked into life!
There should be another thousand candles in the background.
That hurt!
They may like to think that’s what happened!
All the caring they pretended to show – and all the promises that they’d make things better. They probably forgot all about it in their rush to get back to the trough.
Aye, it didn’t take the Unionist politicians long to revert to type.
They think
Excellent.
Possibly the hand isn’t scaly enough.
The candle can be lit again.
Can we get Elton John up here to sing it
It might seem the candle has been snuffed out, but there is a fire in our bellies and it’s burning bright! Keep going…
My candle’s ok thanks. It dimmed for a bit but it’s picking up, and they’ll never, ever put it out.
Well, Stu, what are you going to do about it?
I’ve got beautiful wee saltire cufflinks I planned to wear on each anniversary of our independence.
They were bought only for that purpose. They’ve never been worn.
They will be one day. (’cause I’ve got more candles)
Gee thanks Chris.
That’s me off again.
1.6 million candles snuffed out.
The Establishment with all the ugliness that this term includes cannot avoid the candle that is now burning ever brighter to scorch its arse.
The candle is burning at both ends!
Dimmed early on Friday. Burning more fiercely than ever now.
“…for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
We’ve got not 100 but 1.6 million and perhaps more when they find out what they have done.
SNP application form sent off.
THE SEQUEL:
The flame causes two nasty blisters on his thumb and forefinger; the blisters become infected and turn septic, leaking into his bloodstream and killing him.
The Unionists are tying themselves in knots. HaHa Revenge comes sweet.
No, Grendel. Keep hope. If the elements that constitute the Yes Campaign continue to work together – in coalition even – the candles will not only remain alight but will burn brighter with powerful effect. They will go out only if YES dissolves and its members slink away and cease to grasp one another’s hand.
hell no. Wings has only just begun. We are only, to quote a second world war “hero” this is just the end of the beginning. Stu it is not for me to tell you what to do, but you have a following and page-view rate than many UK nationals would kill for. Go pro adverts newspaper format the whole nine yards. Till then we will fund you. Move north again, let you rats join the travel to a better land.
Those hands look they’ve seen a good days work but it’s really the soft white manicured hands of City Bankers and their BBC shills.
link to bbc.co.uk
Arise Sir Ken of Pacific Quay and worth every penny the saps coughed up.
In the words of Alex Salmond, the dream will never die.
Just 1 day after the most retched defeat and heartbreak a lot of us have ever known, and already I’m seeing the 45 rebounding. On sites like this and Bella, and on twitter, people are saying its time to reorganise, time to get back on the horse.
For me, the independence dream is closer than ever. The legacy of the referendum is an army of tuned-in activists who can defend Scotland in this uncertain time. So I say knock on the doors of neighbours with Yes signs. Help them rebound. My only fear is that the defeat has set off a hemorrhaging of the passion and hope. We need to stop the bleeding as soon as because we have a long struggle ahead.
wee folding bike – good start! Same here – after 55 years in Labour.
We’re only just waking up. It’s not over.
Don’t hate the media become the media
I think we are like those candles that never go out. Snuff us out, turn your back for two seconds and we are aflame again.
Interesting to read that Nigel Farage has written to all Scottish MPs asking them not to vote on English issues.
I hope he saved 6 stamps as SNP MP’s do not vote on English only matters.
Boris saying the same thing and Milliband is furious. Oh what a tangled weave.
Imagine if this is the first decision after the referendum and before the 2015 election. It would mean 49 Labour MP’s neutered and Labours chances of running Westminster much reduced.
Well, it serves them right. They chose to get into bed with the Tories, they deserve it.
Its the second day after the betrayal and lets not call it anything else, and already the back peddling from the fucking meaningless VOW has began.
So lets get started with getting rid of the unionist MP’s from Scotland, or should we just give them their right title “imperial masters”. 1.6 million of us should be a really good start to voting out the labour party and the rest of the unionist scum.
Its only a short time to the general election and their will be no time for this referendum to be forgotten, lets use it to our advantage. lets get the SNP, Greens and anyone but the unionists elected.
Lets make Scotland a desert for the red tories.
Alba Gu snooker loopy!
I’m so sorry to all who’ve lost hope. But all I have to say is to look to Inverclyde. We were expected to get 20% Yes. We were all told we weren’t going to take Inverclyde – we just had to do the best we could, get as many Yes voters as we could for the overall count. We’d have to steel ourselves with the reality that we’d lose the battle, but hope to win the war.
Final results? It was so close only 86 people decided the count. Out of 54572, we got 27,243 – statistically a dead heat, to the point where we needed two recounts. If we canvassed Kilmacolm and Quarriers’ Village (which were not included in our region, it was given to Renfrew – for some reason canvassing was done by Holyrood regions but the polling by Westminste, or maybe the reverse, I still haven’t slept much), I can practically guarantee Yes would’ve taken them too.
Yes Inverclyde tanned No’s hide, bloodied its nose, blackened its eyes, rattled its bones, fought to the absolute finish. They came into this fight expecting to crush us, to sail to a comfortable 80% or 70%. They had the might of Westminster, every single daily newspaper in Scotland (including the Greenock Telegraph despite its protestations of “impartiality”), the entire British media, the wealth of billionaires, a campaign of despicable lies, and the substantial support of the Orange Order on their side. We had about 20 regular campaigners and another 30 grassroots, and a wee shop on Cathcart Street for the last few months. When all was said in done, Inverclyde went from a “2 out of 10” in expectations for a Yes vote, into the 6th best percentage for the whole of Scotland.
My heart goes out to all who’ve lost hope, but ours hasn’t. If it can be done in Inverclyde, it can be done anywhere.
“As long as a hundred of us remain alive…”
There are a hell of a lot more than a hundred of us yet.
gord brown
live sky 10am
should be interesting
Im with Donnywho Rev
Last week my Labour MP told me “We’re reclaiming the streets”.
I saw all the pics on Twitter last night. Now I know what he meant.
Oops! @9:35 am
I meant middle finger.
Friends, I forgot to mention remember to keep an eye out for this years New Year hoers list, you will be able to see muiltiple examples of “30 pieces of Silver” being handed out.
And no I did not misspell hoers.
Sorry, Chris, much as it is a good cartoon, it is wrong. That is what Westminster and their Scottish Labour poodles thought happened on the 19th.
Fact is, the anger of YES voters, and those who were mislead into voting NO on the promise of more powers, is rising. We now have an entire Scotland wide network capable of campaigning. They know the streets, they know the methods, and they outnumber anything in Scotland from Labour, Tories and Libdems combined.
In order to win, the unionists from Labour lied to the Scottish people, and relied upon people from England to come up and campaign for them. Come the next Westminster election in 2015, those Labour MP troughers should be our target. They will NOT be able to bus up people from Manchester, Leeds, liverpool and Newcastle, to help them, because those people will be dedicated to their own area in England. So, together, we really do have a chance to unseat most, if not all the Lying filthy Labour MP troughers in Scotland. That is one hell of a goal. It can be done.
Most importantly, during the campaign we all learned how to talk to our fellow Scots one on one, so let’s not stop. Let’s carry on with that. Let’s talk to our friends workmates about how lying Labour have already broken their promises of more powers. Do not stop the conversation.
Join a pro independence political party if you are not in one, because there is an element of real politik about the UK general election. Much as I want new parties and campaign groups to participate, the reality is that there is ONE party, if elected in large numbers to Westminster, that will once again scare the stuffing out of London, and that is the SNP. For the Scottish elections, it is a different matter, and I would like to see co-ordination between the Greens, SSP, SNP and others, to work to ensure a pro independence ‘rainbow’ majority again at Holyrood, so we can have another referendum ASAP.
I like many others have zero intention of being nice to Westminster, and waiting ten years for the next referendum, `I want one in their face, every single year.
Let’s stop thinking this is over, this is just the beginning.
Have just composed a solo soprano saxophone piece entitled “One and a half million candles” (I know, I know, but 1.6 million isn’t so memorable). I will post it on Soundcloud when I record it. It starts in a minor key and moves to major.
Keep the flame burning.
Hiyas
I know I’m probably posting this comment on the wrong post, as it’s probably more applicable to your editor’s comments, but if I could make a suggestion:
Is it possible that someone could put up a clear demographic of the vote results. I don’t mean the regions, but things like how did the new 16/17’s vote; the over 65’s, men; women; etc.
This would help enormously as I blog on a number of other sites, but it’s impossible to get clear info in one place and especially difficult in MSM.
I am also an newly ex, long-term guardian commenter.
Thanks so much to all the posters here for their clear info.
SBV x
It’s not about losing hope anyway. NO is the settled will of people of Scotland for at least another 30 years. Has Scotland or being a Scot died this week? No. Have we the Scots become a world wide joke? Maybe.
Fact is only one man can bring change now to Scotland and he’s goes by the name of Nigel Farage. Kneel before your masters Scotland:D
At the very least it’s going to weird watching all those rich EU subsidised proud Scot but farmers that ploughed NO into their road side fields, desperately trying to cling on to their giant EU handouts as UKIP and teamGB leave Europe.
Rule Britannia or is it Zeig Heil now. Must check smiley face of UK fascism link to theguardian.com
Robert Louis – thanks for this. A way ahead. I will join and support the SNP for a start. Let’s get a full complement of SNP MPs into the Westminster parliament. Labour especially has shown its true present nature and deserves to die in Scotland – Labour to which I have devoted 55 yeas …..
This ain’t over it’s only the end of the beginning.
Meanwhile in a darkened room in Whitehall
link to youtube.com 😀
@Taranaich
The South Ayrshire count was also a bit of a triumph because of the outcome. Before the count, and based on 2011 election figures, it would have been down near the bottom of the 32 areas. We managed to swing enough voters to get us up to mid-table in terms of overall performance.
What we ALL did counted!
So, (all of us) don’t sit greetin’ intae yer hankies, we have achieved a magnificent thing. Don’t ever forget that.
The seeds are sown, the Westminster “Vow” will crumble, there will be a significant proportion of NO voters who will be alarmed that their faith has been dashed (again!) and there is the possibility that we can rouse enough support for further positive referendum action in the next couple of years.
We need to keep drip feeding the messages about our REAL wealth, and how we are going to be ripped off even more now that the 55% have endorsed the existing state.
I’m bloody well not putting out MY candle ! It’s just been relit!! The fight goes on!
go pro we have to have a voice in the mainstream. Scotsman is going cheep, crowd-fund, issue shares, borrow money from our wealthy supporters, the talent is there the market is there and the will is there. Lets take them on in their own back yard. Don’t hate the media become the media
Some words for the 45. Resist temptation, whether it’s the temptation to sink into the demoralising despair of the private realm, with its television, football and drugs (legal and illegal), or the temptation to surrender to outraged indignation and seek refuge in the fantasy of armed struggle. Temptation leads to depoliticisation. Resist it.
Glasgow, Labour’s heatland in Scotland, voted Yes, despite Labour. Nu Labour has no function in politics any more, no reason to exist, it represents nobody anymore. There is no point in ‘voting Labour to keep the Tories out’. Nu Labour ARE Tories, just a different flavour of Toryism. They are but a resurgence of liberal imperialism – a ghoulish relic from the nineteenth century. Next year in the general election, Glasgow can put a stake in its heart and put the monster down.
Stay open to people. Remember that one in three Shetlanders voted Yes. Remember Rangers Fans for Independence and don’t write off all Rangers supporters as loyalists. Remember those who voted Yes in the Western Isles despite the Wee Free. Minds can be changed so long as they remain open; demonising people will just close their minds.
Let the BNP, the Loyalists, the Orangemen and the rest of them riot in George Square, but stay away from it. Let them discredit themselves. Remember that most No voters are timid souls, George Square will frighten and alienate them.
Watch English nationalism grow. They want an English parliament. Let them have it. Nothing is more certain to destroy the union. Be wary of these offers of more power to the Scottish Parliament. Some of them are poisoned chalices. Above all, be wary of ‘federalism’. It means a written constitution and a written constitution would make a future referendum on Independence impossible. Written constitutions are but straightjackets on democracy.
The future is unwritten.
Hail Alba – Síocháin agus saoirse
I am in a much more upbeat and determined mood today. 1.6 million of us cannot be ignored. Also very heartened by how the 16-17 year olds voted. Our future doesn’t look so bad.
PS Are there breakdowns of how each area in the council areas voted? Where is this to be found if available? Ta.
Posted this on the previous thread but I think it needs repeated because we need to understand how the NO side won the vote.
OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.
I assume that’s the candle of all the fearties that voted NO you are illustrating because this 45’s candle is burning brighter. As Charles Parnell said “No man has the right to fix a boundary to the march of a nation. No man can say ‘thus far shalt thou go, and no further’. We have never sought to set the ne plus ultra of our nationhood, nor shall we ever”
Says it all for me.
Just been back to read the comments, and noticed HandandShrimp here?
Are you the same H&S from Graun comments?
No need to disclose if you’d rather not.
I’m goto – ex commenter.
That was a good suggestion up thread that you ‘become the media’. This site reminds me a bit of Private Eye – hope I’m not saying the wrong thing there, but you know what I mean.
In fact, you are the media. This site is being referenced to disillusioned MSM comment vets.
Best of luck to you
@ Swami Backverandah, check out Professor john Curtice. He’s the only vote analyst or psephologist n the world according to BetterTogetherBBC and to answer your question, the majority of this age group voted YES and the majority of their parents and grand parents voted No. So make of that what you will. Brings a bit of a lump to my throat oddly enough.
@Swami
link to mirror.co.uk
[…] The candle […]
PS, if we become the media we must be outward looking and a UK National, those buggers need our help as much as we do. It will also help to get the English on side and stoke the fires of resistance within the whole UK, with that they will have resistance to deal with on two fronts.
saporian – my sentiments exactly – as a life-long Labour supporter – I am angry and disgusted beyond words. Labour deserves an ignominious and sudden death.
Start now, if you build it we will come, nemo me impune laccasit
I intend to carry on the fight. Now I am free of professional constraints on political activity I will devote myself to the cause.
I have already said this elsewhere but those who voted no did so to a large degree believing more powers would be granted and when they see the extent to which they have been betrayed their anger will be greater than ours. The British will find three million fiercely burning candles a lot harder to snuff out. And three million Yes votes much harder to fiddle!
Swami Backverandah Lord Ashcroft produced a poll on demographics of Indy Vote
pic.twitter.com/H1qsAxdf8M that will give you it all
Woke up to that email from Millibland and have just about calmed down to write a wee message for Scottish Labour.
We are coming for you, we will not rest we will hold you to account for putting your party’s interests before the people of Scotland’s interest. We will campaign tirelessly to remove the cancer of Labour from Scottish politics from the top down. Every councillor, every MSP, every MP we are legion
@ Davy
“New Year’s hoers”
As a noob, I’m not up with the jargon yet, and I thought you meant New Year’s hoovers 😉
Posted this on the previous thread but I think it needs repeated so that we can understand why we lost the vote.
OK here goes. I drove home last night with tears in my eyes when I heard that Alex Salmond had resigned. I do not comment here very often but I do try to read all of the comments. How did the Yes Campaign lose the vote? A lot of the comments yesterday were blaming the OAP voters and to be honest it would appear that the majority of OAPS did vote NO. However, let us not forget the reasons why they did so. The No Campaign used the most effective propaganda tool THE BIG LIE, and they used it twice over. Gordon Brown toured the country lying to pensioners about their pension, and Alistair Darling toured the TV studios and lied about not being able to use the pound. These lies were repeated OVER and OVER again by a corrupt media and were heard OVER and OVER again by the people of Scotland.
Gordon Brown is a LIAR. Alistair Darling is a LIAR. These people are at the top of the Labour Party and with very few exceptions everybody in the Labour Party repeated these LIES. So they are all LIARS. This coupled with the efficient collecting of these votes from Care Homes, Sheltered Housing and OAP Clubs by the Labour Party as postal votes meant that they had already established a big lead for the NO side.
The only person who called these people out as LIARS was the Rev. Unfortunately this message did not get through to a lot of people. I kept telling everybody that I knew that the Yes side would win because people do not like it when they find out that they have been lied to. So where do we go from here? I think we need to tell it like it is and keep telling everybody who will listen, especially the older generation who only get their news from the BBC and newspapers. Gordon Brown lied to you about your pension. Alister Darling lied to you about using the pound. Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs. The working class of this country were abandoned by Labour Party. Lets hope that the voters of this country finally abandon the Labour Party.
@Robyn – Quine fae Torry 10:05am
Unfortunately the way the ballots were counted means that detail isn’t available.
The boxes were delivered to the count and each one opened so that the number of ballot papers could be counted to verify the tally against the register at each polling place.
Those ballots were then aggregated into random boxes for the final count. That means it is pretty much impossible to see how each ballot subdivision voted.
When standing in front of the teller who is counting the contents of each of the original boxes (which have the polling station name on them), it was possible to get a reasonable idea of the split between yes & no, but it was extremely difficult to exactly count the votes because not all of them were clearly visible and there were three tellers per box in the South
Ayrshire count.
I was lucky enough to stumble on one of the eight boxes from our local station as it was being emptied but, never having done anything like this before, I had a struggle developing a mental method of counting. Next time (and there will be!) a clipboard!
Gord
I want the drugs he’s on
Irvine Welsh’s candle certainly hasn’t gone out…
link to theguardian.com
30 seconds of Gordon Liar Brown pacing up and down was enough for me, I had to turn the TV off.
Hell NO!
With tears in my eyes I joined the SNP formally this morning.
There is no need to give up hope. We polled 45%. We did win the argument amongst those who were able to listen. We faught a good fight.
It took other peoples years to win freedom. Nelson Mandella was in jail for 26 years. This is just a setback on our own road to freedom. The best time would have been 30 years ago. A second best time would have been thursday last. But the next time will be the last time, because next time we will win. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we will be free. Sooner rather than later.
45%
Listening to BBC R4’s repulsive political obituary of Alex Salmond yesterday was another very creepy teamGB experience. But this is what it’s all about.
link to dailymail.co.uk
I received an email last night from Ed addressing me by name and congratulating us on voting to stay together. He invited me to join the Labour Party in working for a more socially just society.
I declined
Lock in measles 1& 2
walofs
We have camera men, citizen journalists, international commentators, Video lifestyle writers, radio shows, tv satire, artists, creatives, bloggers, twitter feeds, we own the internet all we need is the will and coordination!
With the internet you don’t even need an office. I am sure that you have the talent to coordinate this as you have done a wee bit of publishing LOL already. Most would contribute for free, at least for a while, it is so doable. A British (wand mass) national paper holding Westminster to account, now wouldn’t investigative journalism come as a shock to these toadies. Do it, i am sure we are all behind you, one step back and a huge leap forward for us all!
Does anyone have a photo of the ballot paper? I’m keen to know if there was any identifying serial number on them – I can’t remember if there was and I’ve seen a few threads from people who claim there were no official marks on the paper at all…
Anyone know for sure?
Thanks for all the stats refs upthread.
Fortified by your comments here, I’m off to have a look round the meeja
Morning one and all, seems as if we are all feeling a bit brighter and ready to saddle up once more.
I was just saying to my husband this morning ( now that I had calmed down a bit), that these stupit auld buggers who voted to protect their pensions, or liebour will get back at wastemonster and protect our health service, have just voted away the one chance they had to protect all that. Just how thick are some folk?
John (hubby) was out swimming last night with two mates, who both voted naw. One he knew is just greedy, pensions shares etc.But mind you he’s the very yin aye moanin about his health. The ither yin, he’s greedy as well mind, but his main reason for voting naw wis because liebour are gonnae get in at wastemonster next year. When John asked them, “how will you get on then when it’s Boris and Nigel” he said the look of shear horror on their faces was a picture to be hold.
Aye be careful what you wish for right enough. Whit wis George Square a’ aboot last night, if that’s with being better together is aboot, well nae thanks.
Aye, New Year. Wouldn’t it be magnificent if all the party goers booed a certain presenter on the Ministry Of Truth Hogmanay show?
Civil disobedience.
Stunts.
Our young people did amazing things before Thursday. Lets keep up the happy campaign.
We have demography on our side. We are going to win this next time.
45%
These words inspire me from MLK the say before he was killed..
Like anybody, I would like to live – a long life; longevity has its place. But I’m not concerned about that now. I just want to do God’s will. And He’s allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I’ve looked over. And I’ve seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land. So I’m happy, tonight. I’m not worried about anything. I’m not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
We have looked over and seen the promised land and we will not lie down and die
Milliband demands a Convention for a devo conversation in a years time and that’s it. Tories say no, let’s get the Scots Labour MP’s out of English affairs for good and starting now for end of January. Farage says just bar Scots MP’s from all English only sessions in the House of Commons. Graun”s Toynbee wants all and any Scottish constituency MP’s banned from holding any UK high office. Cameron and co think they can use Scotland to take out Labour in Westminster and keep control of Scotland.
All we can do now is watch, because that’s what the people of Scotland voted for.
Seems like the SNP already have 3,000 new members, if I have read things correctly.
The next target, as I stated above, has to be to get an SNP army into Westminster in 2015, even if we don’t all necessarily agree with all the SNP does – it is a means to an end. We need to use our combined campaigning expertise which we now have, to unseat every single Labour MP in Scotland. Only the SNP can do this as a party, of all the other Scottish parties who are pro indy.
In England, only a large number of SNP MP’s sent to westminster will scare them, and get the attention of the London media.
Before anybody thinks that is unfair, I also want a coalition of pro indy parties (SSP, Greens (especially), SNP and others) to work hard for the Scottish elections in 2016, so we once again have a pro independence majority in Holyrood.
We as pro indy campaigners should think strategically, and support that and those who will have the most impact in either London or Holyrood. So, we lend our support to the SNP for Westminster, then for Holyrood, we lend our support to ALL the pro indy parties, and choose who is most likely to succeed in particular seats.
We can do this. We need to think smart, and not let any tribal or party matters get in the way. Let’s use whichever party candidate will unseat Labour, in whichever way. This is what we should do.
Then with strong SNP representation at Westminster, and a ‘rainbow’ pro indy coalition at Holyrood, we get another referendum and another and another. Let us take this to Westmidden.
Now that Westminster has already broken its ‘solemn vow’, then it is perfectly legitimate for us to seek another referendum. All bets are off.
Let’s make the thing they fear most happen – A NEVERENDUM. We will win. Make no mistake, we will win.
🙂 🙂
It felt more like a revolution than a movement. And a revolution keeps coming round.
I’ve got a box of matches…
@Krackerman 10:22am
All papers were bar-coded with serial numbers. As you collected your ballot paper at the polling station (applies to postal as well) your ballot paper number is entered into a register and your name scored off the main list of registered voters. Those people with postal votes had a letter “p” alongside their name on that register (to stop them voting twice).
As far as I can gather, all associated paperwork is held for a year before being destroyed.
I’ve forced myself to listen to Broonie. What he’s proposing is a mile away from Johan Lamonts offering.
A decent enough speech but he lost it for me when he starting talking about social justice, has he not read that Milliband is going to accept Osbournes austerity package.
Labours record on social justice is appalling, rich get richer, poor get pooer.
My apologies to anyone trying to cheer themselves up, but that’s certainly how I felt yesterday. As some have said, however, candles can always be re-lit. Stay strong folks 🙂
Older people tend to be more socially excluded, I see my gran as does the rest of the family sadly maybe not as often as we should and I’m sure there are plenty out there that don’t have a great deal of people in their life, they are also more likely to not technologically minded therefore have less access to the online materials that we and others have.
We cannot devour our elderly people because they came, almost, from a different time and place. As many are shouting out, there are still 45’s amongst them.
We can, with some positivity, point out that we have the generations below them believing in independence.
What people should be attacking is our Unionist media in Scotland, or more positively countering it with our own conventional equivalent.
This has to be the task of the 1.6m.
I would like it to be the task of this website and others amongst the movement, irrespective of personal differences, this is why we lost.
At the UK General election next year, we must not just target Labour MPs like Douglas Alexander and Jim Murphy. We must also go after Lib/Dems like Danny Alexander.
I have a feeling that we could be looking at another Referendum sooner than a lot a people think.
keep building, keep fighting and light a candle, no damn it light lots
Good cartoon, but so not true. Robin MacAlpine posted the most inspiring call to action I have ever read on Bella last night. Hope has not been snuffed out, merely temporarily dimmed.
The candle may have been put out for now, but we have the matches required to re-light it. The only question is, will we place it in a shelf too high for the Unionist thugs and “I’m all right Jacks” who sold out everyone’s future to snuff it out again?
I truly believe we can, and MUST keep the momentum going, not be disheartened by the false promises we all saw coming being ripped up, and make sure in 2015 we send Westminster a message by giving them MPs that won’t shut up and accept the cuts they want to impose, and instead actually stand up for Scotland.
Revenge is a dish best served in Labour Party seats.
is Gord PM?
Alistair Darling, but mostly Gordon Brown, have demeaned decency to a degree that should never be forgotten or forgiven. That a towering politician like Alex should be brought low by such scum is truly frightening. I’m 70 but will stick with the fight.
We bust start building the apparatus that defeated us compete on their strengths take down the media at its core
@bfh pre-menstrual?
Glad to see you back, your right they almost snuffed out the flame but they forgot to squeeze it tight enough. We’re back flickering & a bit unsteadily but we want to glow brightly again with your help
Thanks for being there you always shone a light
Cathy
sorry bust = must
@Jim Thompson – Thanks for the explanation.
I put up a video (this one in fact)
link to youtube.com
to female a work collegue on facebook
The response I got made my blood run cold,
“The first time I have ever agreed with Katy Hopkins john”
Scottish born and bred!
Im closing my facebook account, I cant face any more cringeworthy people talking shite at me!
‘We are legend’
Get those WBB circulating.
Every cloud has a silver lining. The trams are great. Holyrood was buzzing.
Keep the faith
I want us all to be careful. I want and like the idea of a new party, but we must not dilute the vote so that we can truly target these lying scum MPs. It has to have some so-ordination with the SNP and other YES political parties.
i would dearly love to wipe the Slabour party of the face of Scotland as a priority.
Gord is very worried about the1.6 million who voted YES
We’ve all been there Chris, you of all people have NOTHING to apologise for.
This crap from Broon is meaningless self indulgent pap. He has no power.
He’s turning this into a vehicle for his comeback.
davidb says:
You mean, give her the Bird?
@saporian. Exactly how I feel and I will continue to highlight this at every turn.
I wish someone would draw a satirical cartoon with A prominent labour person flanked by a tory and an orange order member. Of course with arms around their shoulders.
Now that would be worth sharing.
The YES campaign should continue until the end, this is not the end it is only the beginning.
YES already has in place a network of volunteers all over Scotland and hopefully over the short coming years it could build up a membership and funds to fight the great fight for our democratic right.
Personally I would like to see YES hubs all over Scotland where like minded people could meet and discuss future tactics These hubs could be café, or even pubs where people would be more than welcome to come and enjoy, not anything too much political, and be informed of what is going on, thus attracting new recruits.
Leave YES as it is now with all the cross party, businesses and the youth in place.
We can use this as our spring board.
Remember folks don’t let them put out your candle, keep wearing your YES badge with pride and don’t them simply put it behind them.
Wings you are the light that shines in dark places, become a beacon of truth for all the disenfranchised, lets break the hold of the NeoCons and lobbyist trouffers in the Uk.
Ever seen these trick candles which cannot be out out?
They just burst into life again, by magic.
We seem to be a bit unsure of what to call the future campaign. “45” doesn’t do it for a lot of us, so until we can agree on a word or slogan, I will be putting the “YES” stickers back on the car and the “YES badges back on the jackets.
We were not defeated, we were conned, AGAIN.
I was in Glasgow City Centre last night, and believe me, the youth of Scotland have finally woken up.
They are up for the fight, because they realise that they were cheated out of their Independence by a bigoted minority and a bias media.
Ananurhing
Over my dead body, A previous poster said we need to mobilise the MASSIVE groundswell of support out in support of SNP and independence supporting parties candidates at the next Holyrood Elections and steamroller Labour out of that place once and for all.
We already have a head start with Labour popularity in freefall,
LETS GET RID!
Christ ; surely Datline Scotland (or somebody)could do vid – sketch about this.
Brown, Darling & Cameron somewhere gloating Salmonds demise and drinking a toast – putting out the candle of ‘Scottish hope’ for it only to relight again and again.
Burny fingers and all that …
Come on what a laugh for the YES folks !!!!
They will never snuff out the candle, enough of the navel gazing. The fight continues….
A friend of mine sent me this in response to Mr Cameron´s thoughts of more “powers”:
The Scots’ once had a referendum,
Dave panicked and said “in addendum,
More powers I vow”,
The Scots all said “wow!”
But then Dave f*cked them over – Hell mend ‘em!
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Has THE VOW timetable been published today yet? Me really looking forward to it as I must have missed it yesterday and Gordon Brown has back in business and he never ever tells blatant lies, ever. Maybe THE VOW timetable is published but its only available for kindle etc.
THE VOW! Lying bastards.
We need to find a way of forging an electoral pact.
This is never easy and I am not coming up with concrete proposals.
The ‘ minor ‘ parties will be asked to keep quiet about policies unique to them and the major party will have to embrace compromise, too.
The general election should have YES candidates supported by all of those parties which worked for the campaign.
Holyrood elections need not do likewise, perhaps.
The process for achieving this?
I am just trying to get myself out of the despondency that has beset me for the last couple of days.
Gordon Brown gets more like the joker every minute. He thinks he has got rid of Alex Salmond. He hasn’t.
I am Alex Salmond
The 45 is ALIVE
what people must also realize WM now have a mandate to do as they will, practically unopposed.
what people must also realize WM now have a mandate to do as they will, practically unopposed.
You need to be careful if you snuff out a candle that way. You can get your fingers burned.
There are fewer NO voters today than there yesterday.
There will be fewer NO voter tomorrow than there are today.
And so, it will go on ……..
With Independence some of these Labour MPs might have been in a job until 2016 but I reckon some will be gone in 9 months. Three of the four areas which declared for Yes are currently run by Labour, including its long-standing strongholds of Glasgow and North Lanarkshire, where Mr Miliband rounded off his Referendum campaigning and where Gordon Brown kicked off his. West Dunbartonshire, another core Labour area, also voted for independence.
Constituencies run by leading Labour lights including Ms Lamont herself, MPs Margaret Curran, Tom Harris, Willie Bain, Frank Roy, Ian Davidson, Anas Sarwar, Gregg McClymont and Tom Clarke, as well as MSPs Jackie Baillie, Paul Martin, Patricia Ferguson and Michael McMahon were amongst those voting Yes.
If we can put support on the streets for the Scottish parliament and deliver a resounding victory for the SNP Greens and socialists we can declare UDI what can they do about it?
we’ll have our mandate.
Croompenstein
eh,
I AM ALEX SALMOND!
link to glawest.org Has anyone been bayonted by Chairchoob yet? Chairchoob was on BBC R4 news last night and he sounded a bit odd really. He was trying to explain why Scottish wastemonster MP’s not being able to vote on English affairs may not be a good thing, for his career. As per, questions like “what is an English affair and what is a Scottish affair” was not raised but propagandists tend not to ask questions that may interrupt their propaganda.
Trident 2 will be an English affair because the Englis do want Trident nukes but they dont want them anywhere nice or English. So how will Westminster deal with that, a Wimbledon umpire maybe, the Royals are keen to keep out of politics by reigning over us so future King Charles III would be a great decider.
So “we the English vote AYE for high speed railways all over England and we the English vote AYE for not Scots oil to pay for it”
Its what better together project fear fought so hard for anyway.
@Kirrieoch
superb, love it.
johnking – a wee I am Spartacus play on Ken500’s post 🙂
I am Alex Salmond!!!
They’ll burn themselves badly trying to snuff us out !
Someone from Quebec posted on twitter during the count asking why it took so long. She said they had a result in two hours, because the votes are counted at the polling stations. Couldn’t understand why we had to send them to counting halls. wonder if that’s deliberate so we can’t find out exact demographics?
Thanks for still being here Stu. I haven’t commented before, but have read all your posts since I found your site. You’ve certainly made me much more aware of reading between the lines and checking ‘what is said’ with ‘what is reported’.
The big candle may have gone out, but there are 1.6 mil small ones to take it’s place, and they burn brighter!
Last Saturday I was so full of hope. Chris’s cartoon says it all. So sad.
But look, Peter Murrell just tweeted this so we aren’t the only ones who feel the need to DO something.
@PeterMurrell: 3,000 new @theSNP members! A wonderful community based Yes campaign now converting into political action. Join them: link to t.co
I am over 65 – well over – and I voted YES. Not all of us were fooled.
It has occurred to me that how can Flower of Scotland be now sung at rugby internationals with a straight face by all those spectators who voted NO?
Anyone know when today’s Orange Walk in Glasgow is meant to be?
Hope it is round about now as it is hosing down and has been for the past 10 minutes. Here’s hoping …
I read on twitter that there are 6 Orange Order marches in Glasgow today!
@GrahamB
There are 6 marches of the OO and similar assorted scum planned.
“Come the next Westminster election in 2015, those Labour MP troughers should be our target.”
The time for action is NOW not next year, the NO Campaign openly deceived the Scottish public over their “missing motion”. I cannot believe that thousands protested at the BBC over Nick Robinson yet are happy to let the NO Camp get away with lies. We need protests and rallies on the streets TODAY.
Saporian 10:05am
Good post. Pretty much summed it up pal.
Scottish Oil Wealth Fund – What Could Have Been
link to caltonjock.com
comment awaiting moderation – that’s probably because of the many URLs in it 🙂
Basically, it’s links to the 2010 general election results covering a few labour seats in Scotland in response to @James Caithness at 10:41am. Took me a wee while to compile so hope Stu manages to release it soon.
Iain Mcwhiter
Westminster is now so obsessed with answering the English Question, they’ve forgotten they haven’t answered the Scottish one yet.
We need parties which identifiably occupy the narrow British political Spectrum from left to right, and can stand together with a united front on the question of independence. exactly like the UK parties did so successfully with the three stooges. The Real Scottish Liberals, The Real Scottish Labour, The Real Scottish Tories even. The SNP is supposed to do that, but only the enlightened understand this, make it simpler, create the three parties above and always present a united front on our one burning desire. The PTB and MSM enjoyed the easy fourth force target and demonising Alex and the SNP. The SNP could continue as umbrella for all enlightened others. We must be SMARTER!
On a separate topic – I see Nick Farage and UKIP have set their eyes on Scotland now
I’m Alex Salmond… and so’s my wife
8 months and counting. Tick tock.
I AM ALEX SALMOND 🙂
@Liz
The OO and UKIP, just made for each other.
The cartoon is accurate. Stuart Campbell’s opinion that there will not be another chance for an indyref in our lifetimes, echoes the feeling of many of us.
For the first time ever, a country committed national suicide in front of a live worldwide audience.
However, when one considers the hardships and deprivations coming Scotland’s way, the passing of that generational cohort who voted 75% NO, and the resentment that is bound to accrue in the wake of the broken promises of constitutional reform, there is grounds for hope.
It is certain that in their vengeful way, the establishment are resolved that having enticed the Scottish dog back into its kennel, they are going to beat it.
That will only serve to further alienate Scots, and coupled with the other factors enumerated above, could increase pressure for a second referendum to an irresistible level.
We could easily see pro-indy opinion poll numbers in excess of those in Catalonia. It all depends on just how cosmically dumb Westminster is prepared to be. I have enormous confidence in their infinite capacity for stupidity.
Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.
Now is when we have to start spotting Westminster positioning itself for our independence.
Keep an eye open for an increase in MoD orders for smaller vessels going to southern yards so that they can begin building their expertise.
Keep an eye open for anything that suggests they are creating the extremely large berths needed for both the new carriers.
Keep an eye open for additional works in any area away from the SE of England that suggests a new home for Trident replacement.
And I’m sure there are a few other litmus tests we can develop.
If any of the above does start to happen, it’s a sign that they KNOW we are serious now.
@Swami Backverandah
Zerohedge has Lord Ashcroft’s data on voter breakdown.
link to zerohedge.com
Postal vote 70 no 30 yes. My. Arse. Rigged.
I’ve voted SNP since I was 18 , that’s 50 years ago! SNP were the only Independence Party and amazing that they got control of Holyrood! Imagine another Independence Party! The Common Weal. There is a great uplifting article on Bella by Robin Mcalpine! We can still do this! Let’s kick the RED TORIES ( labour ) out of Scotland and fill Holyrood with Independence Parties! I recommend reading the article by Robin.
Behold Scotland region’s next FM
link to heraldscotland.com
A lot of CIF praying for SNP collapse at Holyrood and Labour retake their rightful place as rulers of the Scotland region. Then it’s UKOK out of the EU.
i think that somethings can never be said enough.
don’t blame the media become the media.
the fight as ever is for a truly democratic system.
i also read somewhere that it was the UN who stepped in to insist that the UK gov stops it’s delaying and ensures, scotland has a devolved parliament, can any one confirm this?
@john hamill – don’t forget Ian Murray in that list.
I AM ALEX SALMOND
Cameron in trouble.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
‘All the forces of the world are not as powerful as an idea whose time has come’
– Victor Hugo
Totally agree with those saying we should try and unseat Labour and send as many SNP MPs to Westminster as we can but is it now going to be SNP policy not to have another referendum ‘for a generation’ or will they still have it on the agenda as long as there’s enough support for it? Are there any SNP members on here who might know? I’ll vote for them anyway just to get rid of Labour but I just wondered what their position on indy was going to be now.
Mariaskid says:
20 September, 2014 at 10:19 am
I received an email last night from Ed addressing me by name and congratulating us on voting to stay together. He invited me to join the Labour Party in working for a more socially just society.
I declined
i got the same email, i wonder where they got my address
As the promises are broken a fair number of the 55 will increasingly look to their failed politicians and say “throw us a fricking bone here”.
They are the ones that have to deliver promises, they are the ones that set a timetable, they are the ones that said the NHS is safe. They have no hiding place.
Yesterday pain and hurt, today anger. Let them burn their fingers on the flame of liberty that they cant extinguish. Traitors to us all.
Forget about referendums. We need to use elections.
I would like to see Yes Scotland re-brand itself as “Scottish Independence” and fight each seat in future elections with a single agreed candidate, drawn from the member parties, and standing where each party is strong.
For example, Patrick Harvie could stand as “Scottish Independence” in Glasgow’s West End, while Colin Fox stands as “Scottish Independence” in Pollok. SNP candidates would stand as “Scottish Independence” in the SNP heartlands. There would be nothing to stop the individual parties having their own manifestos, as long as they stood on the fundamental principle of Scottish independence.
“Scottish Independence” would have a non-politician leader (I would nominate Lesley Riddoch) which would confuse the media no end 😉
Winning any Westminster or Scottish election to be taken as a mandate for a declaration of independence, as the electorate would literally have voted for Scottish independence.
The rUK would be forced to the negotiating table by this democratic mandate, so we can avoid the difficulties of declaring UDI, whilst retaining that as the ultimate option.
Scotland – Going, Going, Gone … Grouse Beater
“That a command paper will be published by the end of October, that the heads of agreement between the parties and further devolution will come in November and that the draft legislation, the laws that will form the Scotland Bill and eventually the Scotland Act, will be ready by the end of January”
Says rancid old Herald. Actually this does explain why Crash and THE VOW was not published timetable yesterday because it’s all been switched to “heads of agreement” will be published at end of October. So that’s not quite yesterday but at least gives these fraudsters a good dod of time to cook up some weird devo crap.
God only knows what the herald ligger means by heads of agreement between the parties etc will come in November but that’s UKOK bullshit artists I suppose.
Haven’t read all the posts yet, but can I suggest that Chris makes a slight amendment to this cartoon.
There should be a pic of Hamish in the background with a lighter in his hand and a smile on his face.
I am not for giving up. I hope the rest of you will continue too.
I am reminded of the movie scene where everyone shouted “I am Spartacus”. Well let me tell the establishment. I am SALMOND.
Please sign if you have not already done so…
link to secure.38degrees.org.uk
Chris, perhaps you could do another version of this cartoon showing wee Hamish with a box of matches…
On the Scottish MPs not voting on non-Scottish matters – I hope the SNP now change their stance and START voting on them. BT/NOthanks say we’re better together, well, that cuts both ways. We can interfere in their legislation as well. Let’s get the SNP using their votes to help the disenfranchised in England, Wales & NI.
@caz-m.
45 is and always will be a non runner for me as it automatically excludes the other 55% that some of may vote for independence. It alienates right from the outset.
I still have my car sticker on and I still wear my badge, in fact I just took down my YES posters from my house windows this morning.
I am proud of voting YES and I don’t want the tainted no voters to forget they sold out Scotland.
They want to forget and get on as before, but I am determined that will not happen.
s some quarters of society say: wear it loud and wear it proud.
So good on you. Everyone else should do the same.
Got an email from Douglas Alexander, sounds the same as the Miliband one. I’ve joined the SNP.
Just composing my response.
Anyone know who is standing against Jim Murphy in East Ren in May? Willing to offer help.
This is not finished.
I can remember when SNP needed precentage points to reach up to 10 per cent.
On Thursday we were short by only 6 per cent.
Elect SNP to Holyrood in 2016 and sound the knell via a “Unilateral Declaration of Independence”.
ALL those who voted to retain the union, voted for Devo-Max, are already seeing Krash`s VOW to hand new powers to Holyrood by Jan next year – has returned as a Convention – at the end of next year.
“THEY” BOUGHT THE LIES BUT THE REST OF US PAY THE PRICE.
Apprentice Boys of Derry have just walked past my house with two bangs
two bands of the apprentice boys ,it should have read.
What the No camp chose was unknown, unquantified policies imposed from the top down, the very process the democracy movement sought to overthrow.
When the burnt the Saltire last night they also provided the light to relight that candle.
You can’t kill a nation!
I am not for giving up. Far from it. The incompetence and greed of the alliance members will give us the opportunity to have another referendum; sooner rather than later.
The ‘more powers’ whilst quite meaningless, will offer us the stick to beat the No campaign with.
Gordon Brown’s ego trip will also give us another chance.
Thanks Chris, I think!
I certainly felt like crap yesterday, snapping at folk, but feel energised again and keen to carry on.
See a new website started by Indy stream: http://www.yesparty.co.uk
and facebook we are the 45%.
We are beginning again!:)
Jim Thomson re bigger berths for aircraft carriers, that’s already happening I read a link on here ages ago about a dock in Hull being lengthen and bring able to be joined to another in order to accommodate the vessels. We will be asset stripped.
The candle was snuffed out but the candle is still there just waiting to be relit.
schrodingers cat @ 11.32
Starting to feel like the one who gets picked last for the team,
Why didnt I get an email from Mr Ed (the talking horse)? 🙁
Never give up. EVER!
They think they have won…they are sadly mistaken. This is just the beginning. I’ll never stop until our country is free from these lying, thieving cretins.
Chunky Mark Artist Taxi Driver tells us to keep the fight going, brilliant stuff again from Mark.
Yesterday I was down for “8” but today Im on my feet fighting again. just one thing to all the people who are going on about getting 45 SNP Mp’s elected in Westminster.
When we have 45 SNP MP’s we will have at least a 50% plus 1 majority for Independence. Presumably if we can get a huge majority at Westminster then we can also get a huge majority at Holyrood (If it still exists) When we get 50%+1 at Holyrood, then the First Minister should call a vote in parliament to end the treaty of union. Simples.
link to youtube.com
Calgacus, we are on the same side. I have been VERY involved in the campaign and I am VERY unhappy with the result of the referendum. I’m a middle aged bloke who spent much of yesterday spontaneously bursting into tears! However, I attended the postal vote openings, I was present at the count. I WAS THERE as the Wings Referendum Agent.
I can certainly testify that the postal vote numbers were very high and that there was a significant degree of VERY old voters – much higher than I might have suspected. Many of the dates of birth I witnessed during the verification process ranged from 1911 – 1925. However, the signatures for these votes concurred with that of an elderly person, and matched with their application for a postal vote which was often made years earlier.
Now, I’m not going to follow internet conspiracy theories. One thing I must question is the motives that drove a 103 year old to take a decision for millions of people about something they might never actually see themselves. However, it would be a very brave soul indeed who denied that person the vote. I was quite humbled to see that one.
@Kirsty – I think it was A. Salmond who said no referendum for a generation. However I am hoping that the new leader may have another agenda.
Maybe it’s better this way they were trying to guilt trip if we said yes with their don’t leave us we love you plea but by their actions they have left us with no choice indeed forced us to leave We go on until we win.
Caroline Corfield says
“Jim Thomson re bigger berths for aircraft carriers, that’s already happening I read a link on here ages ago about a dock in Hull being lengthen and bring able to be joined to another in order to accommodate the vessels. We will be asset stripped.”
And where are they getting the money from to do it all?
Don’t worry the Scots and their oil can pay for it – light that bloody candle someone…
Next step rout out the useless Labour liars. The feeble fifty. Tories/LibDems already routed. Then another Referendum. 4 years later.
Highlands and Islands are being kept in the Dark. Poor Internet connections. Better connection will be up to speed. Get the WBB circulating now.
I am Alex Salmond
I’m still in a dark place but not as bad as yesterday.
I read that a French newspaper has a cartoon with a Scotsman wearing a kilt and someone saying , he has no balls – don’t know if it was here or on twitter.
Well Europe has nothing to be proud of – they could have supported us in our quest but instead we had a lot of the euros telling you wont get into the EU etc.
Also we tried to request independent monitors of the election but that got no where either.
The 45 have nothing to be ashamed of but they will try very hard to make us feel insignificant.
All the Proud Scots will be subjected to the same derision but with them it’s true.
There are a lot of ideas around at the moment and I hope we will come together to support the big idea.
AS warned us we were up against the dark forces of the establishment and as expected they were very good.
They allowed us hope and then took it away, that was more destructive than fighting against us.
We knew it wouldn’t be easy but I think now we realise that more than ever.
And for all you people linking to MSM newspapers could you please stop. I will NEVER read another MSM paper in my life.
As for GB – I will never in my life understand him and also the Celtic supporting Murphy, Reid etc – what are they about?
Also I don’t know how any self respecting Scots person could attend the England match – you will be treated to dogs abuse
Robert Louis
I agree with you. Trying to work out where to channel my anger at the unionist parties and press who have lied and promised what they are unable to deliver.
A few ideas:
1. No more dilution of the vote – SNP candidates, green party or SSP in appropriate seats.
2. Organised campaigns to destroy the confidence in the complacent lying labour MPs ‘credibility’ in their constituencies. Highlighting their voting records, expenses and the bullshit promises they have made that will never be fulfilled. I have pushed thousands of leaflets through doors and am happy to do so again.
3. We need unity, purpose and ideas. Can I suggest crowd funding a progressive conference for well before the next general election to bring together the range of pro indy groups/parties and form some form of council. We need this to continue as a movement but desperately need to a learn lessons from the failure to win.
One lesson is that we can never let them make it about one man then watch as that man is demonised. We need a broad leadership.
4. The next referendum whenever we get it needs built on more solid foundations to get the elderly on board rather than the absurd and insulting idea that they will somehow just die out. If, as looks likely we lost this on the elderly vote this area needs real attention.
Whether that be a real drive to improve their conditions or simply wake them up. Next time we cannot simply hope to offset the elderly vote. This can be done by helping them rather than hating them for screwing things up for the rest of us.
Let’s not forget that they will feel the austerity agenda keenly – they simply chose to believe the lies about pensions that were peddled.
5. The press. We have to somehow put these unionist rag’s to the sword and much as I think that newspapers are the past, passing a new stand everyday and seeing no propaganda on every front page has been a killer.
Whether that be building on Newsnet Scotland and producing a printed edition, creating something new or buying a failed Scotsman, we can’t be in the same situation next time. Boycott of unionist rags like the herald daily is essential. Ian Bell, Lesley Riddoch and Iain Macwhirter along with the young guard who has emerged can find a new home.
I’m still very raw and nothing I have said is meant as criticism of anyone on the Yes side – I am proud to be part of this and from this great setback our great victory will spring.
link to 78.110.165.228
“Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown was said to have ‘brokered a deal’ with all three London parttes. He said: “We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.”
It now appears as though that timetable has been scrapped.”
No shit Sherlock. So it was all cunning stunt to save the union. Well it worked so can we please start taxing those voted Naw Thanks. Why should I pay for all those Lamontable freebies and handouts to those 2 million that voted against all of it?
We’re all Tories now, red, yellow, green.
We need to wait and see what happens with the SNP, Yes Scotland and the rest of the campaign groups.
Unfortunately as others have pointed out we have handed Scottish politics back over to Westminster. We are also bound to wait and see the outcomes over this course of events.
I know some are keen to rebound, and keep fighting, but at the moment the ‘battle’ is over until we can see something regroup.
New Zealand has just returned its own national party.
Lets buy the the Scotsman it has to be on the market soon, don’t hate the media own it
@X_Sticks
There should be a pic of Hamish in the background with a lighter in his hand and a smile on his face.
Here is Hamish ready to relight the candle.
link to i.imgur.com
I’ve just joined the SNP! Perhaps we should all do this?
I don’t know what all their policies are and I’m sure I’ll disagree with some, but I joined based on the aims set-out in their constitution. I’ve never been a member of any political movement before.
I’m not sure I agree with the name 45 suggesting exclusion of the other 55%, they are more than welcome to join. It’s a rally call, not a gauntlet thrown down. We’re not at war with the 55% but we are in opposition to the Establishment and anyone who perpetuates the lie too wee, too poor, too stupid.
Alexicon says
“I still have my car sticker on and I still wear my badge, in fact I just took down my YES posters from my house windows this morning.
I am proud of voting YES and I don’t want the tainted no voters to forget they sold out Scotland.”
I went out into my garden in the half light this morning, (tipping it down with rain) and took down my YES Saltire, to cat calls and jeers from a nearby no voting neighbour, 1 minute later my other saltire (no yes on it) appeared on the skyline, my neighbour dissapeared back indoors without a word.
Ronnie says
“Apprentice Boys of Derry have just walked past my house with two bangs”
“two bands of the apprentice boys ,it should have read.”
Thank god for that, I thought it was a march past shooting 🙂
I was looking for bullet holes in your shed 😉
3000 new SNP members. It’s happening.
SNP members fund the Party with what they can give (to help others). Unionist Party members join for what they can get. Interest groups.
Unionist support of minority Orange Marches is an affront to democracy. A disgraceful waste of public money. They charge Food banks rent.
My tuppence worth is that we should let the dust settle. I have no doubt Westmonster will do our work for us before the next WM election – its already started. Wouldn’t it be brilliant if the Yes parties could for one election come under a YES Scotland Coalition so there is only one candidate in all Westminster seats. They can retain their own individual party manifestos but work together to drive out the RedTories, and Liberals out of Scotland. No dilution of vote. We could all unite under that for one election only. A mix of candidates could be agreed between the parties.
So how can you square the two? Scots are showing they won’t go on committing their taxes or oil monies to building a London super-state on the global highway for the transnational rich, particularly when it’s becoming unaffordable to their Cockney comrades, driving them out of their own city to the M25 satellites.
That’s Irvine Welsh in the Graun. Thing is the people of Scotland have voted to do all of the above, for safety strength something bigger etc.
One of many UKOK vote no frauds was that Scottish Westminster MP’s pulled England leftward so STAY WITH US but even if that was remotely true, these Labour in Scotland socialists workers that each pocket £200 grand a year, are now going to be excluded from anything to do with stuff what goes down behind the M25. But we vote Naw Thanks for better or worse.
Almost forgot – the BBC. This discredited nest of vipers must be destroyed in Scotland.
The Scottish Parliament needs to table a motion to demand control of broadcasting in Scotland.
We need some way of coordinating cancelling licence fees and crowd funding the SBC.
PQ6? I am undecided on this as I feel we need to go further.
The 1.6 million of us will never forgive the state broadcaster for being the media branch of the no campaign.
Anyone who thinks ‘the 45’ is a good idea deserves to remain as part of a notional 45% minority. To adopt a name based on failure is so bloody sad. The fact it is derived form the official establishment figures released from a possibly rigged vote makes all the more amusing. Its a self fulfilling prophecy of remaining static. It’s a huge boost fot the 55 (the opposing unionist group already set up).
The seeds are already being sewn for another defeat if this 45 thing takes off – just as the SNP have been so bloody stupid for years not to realise the party name in itself (BNP, UKIP et al) has been worth at least 10%-20% to the opponents. Had the vote been closer the name itself could have swayed many undecided voters who hate nationalist parties (and rightly so). Take the bloody weekend off WOSers and think!! It needs a an inclusive progressive alliance to win hearts and minds, not a ‘we voted YES so you NO lot can fuck off’ clique.
In the meantime never forget…
“Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” Joseph Stalin
PS printing that unionist propaganda cartoon sucks as well.
Re identifying marks on ballot paper, there was one of those square barcode type things which I assume can be computer scanned.
@Tartan Tory
Thanks for these sentiments you expressed.
I note the poll where, (in general), the over 60’s voted NO by 2:1.
I also heard a young woman quoting the first time voters as voting 71% for YES and Kaye says
“I’ve got the figures here in front of me, it’s not true it was 51% YES from the Ashford poll”.
“Oh I must have got it wrong” says woman.
Aye right! Kaye must be quoting from the BBC version.
Still wearing my YES badge I don’t want any of my Scottish neighbours thinking I voted NO.
well i aint giving up either just wait for the next general election join the greens and the snp and all the other groups into 1 party then wait for the promises fall through and the no start to feel like they betrayed both themselves and the country and with labour destroyed in scotland they will all flood over to yes bam new referendum in less than 5 years probably not even that long and now we know how to play the game we should demonize the media like they did to us spread smear stories leak scandals show the people that they are PR for the establishment then the banks and the corruption of london show people the lobby groups get people aware how exactly this goverment actually works to undermine them all with the help of the corporate media and tricks them into war after war recession after recession then we will win.
None of us are going to stop trying thats why we will win its only a matter of time or as Wee Eck likes to say a no is only a deferred yes.
Bella has hit the nail on the head.
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
What’s happening with my posts? Once I submit they vanish.
They are not worth the candle.
We have plenty of light and we can see the road ahead and we know just where we are going.
Surely the cartoon should have been a triptych .
First panel the candle of hope being snuffed out.
Second panel Establishment leaving darkened room with candle smoking.
Third panel door closed but candle bursting back into flame of renewed Hope.
Your separatist ‘wings’ have been clipped. You will not fly anywhere.
The British bulldog will see to that.
Time to accept defeat people.
We, the 55, came so close to falling into Salmond’s abyss. We feel like it’s a new dawn. We have been spared the catastrophe.
We do not want a welfare state. We want an entrepreneurial state. We don’t want a country living on hand-outs. We want high-tech centres and young people being supported to go into business.
Your lot wanted a people living on hand-outs. A welfare state. Generations on social security.
You would have bankrupt this nation within 2 years.
55% of voters agree with me.
Rule Britannia.
@alexicon – if you are using google chrome, they take ages to appear.
I’ve switched to ‘e’, ?firefox – and they appear instantly
@Christian
“Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.”
I am so stealing that!
Sorry, I posted on the previous post and didn’t realise this one was here! :
Well, I’ve had a sleep and feel a bit better.
First of all, I agree with everything Fiona said at 11:27am.
I’ve been pondering all night about this – why did we lose? Maybe we were too naive, talking among ourselves, getting carried away. There really was a “silent majority”. Last week, a friend on Facebook who I would have had down as a definite yes, came out with an angry rant about being part of the “bullied” silent majority, going on & on about intimidation, ugly scenes, disgraceful bullying at Pacific Quay etc. He is an intelligent guy yet here he was believing all the media spin. So, that is what we are up against. btw, I was really impressed with Laura Bicker during the count when Carmichael tried to get a dig in about the “disgraceful” Yes campaign intimidating BBC journalists, and she said (paraphrasing): “I really must interject but as a BBC journalist, I have never felt intimidated!”
So, the media (as we all know), is our main enemy. When we start going on & on about bias etc, people just stick us in the “tin foil hat” category. I don’t know how to get round that. The BBC is such a respected institution, even after the Jimmy Savile scandal etc. Even my family, after pointing out bias, alternative sites et, still watch the news and buy the papers and think it’s just me off on a silly rant. I really don’t know how we change that. We could start our own channel or newspaper, but it would take years to become an accepted, believable, credible part of the media. I think we need people already part of it to help with this.
The people I know who voted No, did so because they couldn’t see the need for change, and didn’t want to upset their nice, juicy apple carts. It’s alright us going on about the injustices of foodbanks and the humiliation of ATOS etc, but unless people are down there experiencing it, they fob it off, believing all the Daily Mail style bile. Sad but true. I couldn’t speak to my No voting siblings yesterday. They really could not understand why I was so upset and dejected. It was a loss of hope for me, someone just diagnosed with a chronic, life-limiting illness, terrified at the prospect of another 5-10yrs of callous austerity and the prospect of jumping through ATOS hoops. For them, today is just the same as tomorrow. Nothing has changed for them.
Already people are proclaiming it a victory for democracy, 80%+ turnout!, but if people do not understand nor care enough to see the need for change, that is not a victory for democracy, it is a victory for apathy.
Also, to win, we need to win big. I think 45%, considering where we started from, is an amazing achievement, but even if we had won with 55%, that’s an awful lot of people who would have been horrified & terrified about it the next morning. We still have a lot of work to do, opening eyes & minds. But 45%. That’s amazing. Well on the way. It won’t seem such a scary prospect next time.
So, more positively! I’ve always been political, but never a member of anything. I’m considering joining CND or the Greens. The amount we are about to waste on Trident 2 is utterly immoral, and I want to do everything I can to try and stop that.
I already don’t pay my TV licence, or buy newspapers, sadly stopped buying Tunnocks teacakes, and John Lewis & Asda are now on my list to avoid too. It won’t make much difference sure, but it will make me feel better. I think I may also move my banking to ASB.
I like the idea of us, the 45ers, to begin with at least, in these next few weeks as we lick our wounds and form a plan. However, while I like the name, it is by its nature exclusive and divisive, so not for the long term I wouldn’t think. We have a momentum here, and I don’t think it can be stopped. I’m feeling more positive this morning! 🙂
Well I have got over my huffy strop and am raring to go again. I am about to email my MP and harass him over their (broken already) promise. He will get to know me well over the next few months.
I can’t promise to stop buying newspapers as I have not bought one for years. Don’t have Sky TV but I will start my protest in small ways – bought Scottish cheese instead of my usual English stuff in
Tesco’s today!
One thing I will mention which is annoying me about this site though is numerous snidely comments over the recent months about the more wealthier parts of Edinburgh. I (as do other members of my family) live in a nice part of the city. We all voted Yes and I think one of the mistakes was to concentrate too much on the people living in the housing schemes. For Scotland to thrive as an independent country you need people from all walks of life to buy in to it. I read a comment this morning from someone here that our council tax should go up as a punishment for the No vote – well I may live in a nice area but that does not make me rich! Also my parents in their 80”s voted Yes – please stop tarring everyone with the same brush as it will just alienate people. Blame the politicians and the media – not each other.
@ Tony
I hate to burst your bubble Tony, but 45/55 isn’t what you’d call a convincing majority. I know some staunch BritNats who are already calling for a second referendum if the Westminster promises aren’t kept.
Also, the word ‘separatists’ cannot be used legitamately to describe nearly half a population.
Apols if someone’s already mentioned, and I haven’t read all the comments, but didn’t Salmond say – perhaps in the resignation speech, that there were other ways of achieving independence besides ref’s. Did he mean by a parliamentary majority?
I haven’t been back to check the speech, but I’m always interested in the way things are carefully worded. eg when he said “he” wouldn’t call another indy ref
Thick British Tony the unionist chugger stirs again, I hope and pray you fall on hard times TBT and then you can ask your pals Dishface and IDS to help you out you prick
Yesterday morning when our First minister stood at the podium to give speech, the words on the front of the podium read One Scotland.
That should be the name for a united independence party.
One Scotland
Sorry Gallowglass at 12.01 the fightback starts now and does not include anything other than a drive for normal independence which we nearly achieved on Thursday.
We did not hand the agenda back and we have no intention of giving any serious consideration to any of the tiddly wee plans that will be flung about to divert us away from independence.
NOW
@James
Thanks James, exactly what I wanted. 🙂
Glad to see Carmichael being given a lesson in what right wing nationalism, intimidation and bigotry really looks like by his unionist friends. Good luck with yer new pals Carmichael, Murphy et al.
Conan
“I am so stealing that!”
Too late I saw it first. 🙂
@Tony
Dry boak.
Shouldn’t you be out marching somewhere.
Oh, they got one candle? I hope it wasn’t yours Rev Stu. They still have 1,617,988 more to go, and you know what they say “if you play with fire you’re going to get burnt”. 🙂
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Caroline Corfield
see your point.
but it is about the amazing achievements of the 45.
how about, 45+, doesn’t work does it, because it is a foundation group of the 45.
we build from here on solid foundations.
it can be renamed after independence is won, hopefully 70.
imo it would do no harm to buy the sunday herald.
What we’re still up against in the MSM:-
Only a day after the ‘Vow” was broken, Ministry of Truth (aka BBC) headlining “Brown Promises to ‘Lock In’ Scots Powers”. Also the main item in Radio Clyde news bulletin.
How can a backbench, non-government party MP be able to “lock in” anything?
They really do take us for mugs.
Tony, take your effigy of Britannia and shove her up your arse.
My candle was put out yesterday morning when “Scotland rejects independence” came up in bold red letters on the telly. However after 24 hours of mourning, Alex’s resignation and the thought of no more Wings I found a huge box of matches and my candles burning again. Part of this was Wings is still with us and the thought that BT said all along that independence was one mans vanity project as the Scots didn’t want it. If this was true then this one man took on the whole of the British Establishment, 99% of politicians, every newspaper, TV news producers, big banks, big business, big supermarkets, world leaders, 200 celebrities and the worlds one and only psephologist. Add to that, the shit that was thrown at him for years and he came within 10% of beating them all. If that diznay relight yir candles then you may need another day or twa to find that huge box of matches. We will get them blown out again and again but there is enough of us and there will be more candles burning brighter that ever until our day is here.
There’s a kind of time delay going on with the comments, if you post, sometimes the comment vanishes, but it has still posted, wait a few moments and refresh…you will see it is there. You don’t have to keep reposting, as they will all then show up, no doubt creating a headache for Stu. Just my experience 🙂
link to dailymail.co.uk
Look out tis Duncan Hothersall. These guys knew they had won by 10pm Thursday but why. Good to see Duncan happy and another socialist worker getting hugged by fascists in the Daily Heil too. Is Duncan chosen for great things in the Scotland region? He’s certainly put the effort in.
End of the beginning not beginning of the end!!
My son tells me his friends on twitter, and there are many with many other friends and so on are all really angry and ready to push ahead.
There seems to be a fire in their bellies right now so it should be kept burning.
Whats that noise, oh its ok its just Tonys pals dragging their knuckles through George Square,
hurry up Tony of you double time and stick your sash up your arse you’ll mibbe catch up with them.
Heedtracker says
“Good to see Duncan happy and another socialist worker getting hugged by fascists in the Daily Heil too.”
Probably smiling cos he got a reach aroound. 🙂
If someone got car window stickers with ‘If at first you don’t secede, try and try again” I’d buy one. Be brill to see one on every other car in Scotland.
Same Daily Heil thing with Duncan says “Fairness will keep the UK together” and thats all from William Hague! There is really no depths to this fraud but there is funny bits too. They can say anything they like now, Naw thanks voters gave them full power to do and say anything.
Tony
bankrupt, the UK has £4trl of debt, with a falling GDP of £1.8trl.
productivity per capita GDP is plunging.
the UK is soon to become 4 super counties, with a city of london hub.
so in fact the UK will soon cease to even exist.
that sounds like fun!
Let us remember, “the darkest hour comes before the dawn”
But the dawn always comes.
Nana,
Twitter is absolutely buzzing. It’s revitalising our endeavor with great gusto.
Alive and kicking
55% of voters agree with me.
You have that the wrong way around.
They are not marching to your tin whistle tune.
After being completely gutted and mentally drained, I’m now starting to think this ref. might have been a blessing in disguise.
We’ve gone from 25 to 45%, a huge acheivement even if we wanted more, the ultimate prize.
Leaving aside the hard core 30%, we didn’get indy because too many people were Devo-MAXers or the time isn’t quite ripe folk. They voted to give WM the chance with their “Vow” “Pledge” or whatever. Conned we would say but they made their choice.
They and the Vow are now right in the spotlight and we Yessers are going to make sure they don’t forget it.
WM can’t and won’t deliver on their promises so sooner or later when everything collapses there’s gonna be a lot of disappointed folk out there and ready for persuasion.
I think this process will move fairly quickly and our job is to keep the pressure up and guide them over to YES.
Is there any way a concerted effort can be made to publicly discredit and then oust prominent Labour / Tory / Liberal MSP’s at the next election?
They have to a person lied and have no credibility.
Jim McIntosh,
Excellent. 🙂
@fredblogger and others
I did respond to Tony yesterday so I am not in a position to say this: but really, do not respond to this sad, unmannerly lout. He is the face of misery, as all that kind of unionists are: the only game they know is kick the cat, for they are the lowest of the low, and they know they are
They will never extinguish the candle in our hearts. 😉
On the BBC News channel ticker, “Gordon Brown promises pledges of new powers will be kept”, closely followed by “Westminster parties clash over new powers for Scotland”. Says it all.
“Remember, if at first you don’t secede, try, try, try again.”
Brilliant, what a slogan!
Conan great to see your still in fine fettle!
As for going on, well what the hell would wae do wae oor time anyway, the wife gives me hell when I get under her feet!
BTW everybody, the last hours have just confirmed something for me, nat’s can find more humor, even of the dark kind, in defeat than unionists can find even in their victories.
Best of all, I know that most of it is to help the spirits of other Nats. I don’t know how many times since the result I have been asked, are you alright!
The unionists have no idea, it’s from my fellow Nat’s of all kinds that my hope comes, it is all of you who have relit my candle!
Although i may never meet you, except in spirit, this knackered auld nationalist says thank you friends!
@ john king, he’s a happy boy oor Dunc. But now is the time to make sure that all of these teamGB delights start paying for teamGB.
We cannot possibly accept that same Naw thanks vote continues to take all devo benefits fought so hard for by people like Alex Salmond.
For wealthy naw thanks voters even taking a bus pass is fraud beyond my tolerance levels and I grew up watching much the same BBC UKOK SlabCondem freak show annihilate Scargill and the miners. Duncan’s a shill on the make but its going to cost the 2+million naw thanks vote a lot of money for even more teamGB bullshit, with a hell of a lot less democracy. They voted for him, they can pay for him.
As Duncan would say, to the victor the spoils.
Jim McIntosh
Yeah I’d buy one as well and I know quite a few other people that would as well.
That’s the SNP got yet another member.
BBC will be cancelled on Monday as well.
Let’s keep up the good fight everyone!!
Anyone having problems accessing the YES website? Are they going to dissolve or (hopefully) stick around? Anyone know?
first increase in power will be the removal of the power for scotland to hold another referendum
If its true the postal vite was 70% no that explains the smubness of all the unionists on TV just as the programmes started at 10pm. THEY KNEW
Also means that the walk in vote was majority Yes
Sounds a bit soft I know, but my heart is soaring with hope because Wings and it’s community are still forging ahead.
Great you are all still here and thanks for sticking by us Rev.
I think that all of the pro yes groups should get together for next years election. A “Coallition for Independence” to fight the seats as one so that the vote doesn’t get split. We need to replace all of the Labour seats with pro independence ones. If we can hold the balance of power down there we can stop them refusing any further referendums.
Jim McIntosh said,If someone got car window stickers with ‘If at first you don’t secede, try and try again” I’d buy one. Be brill to see one on every other car in Scotland.
Agreed jim, i would have some as well and maybe not just car stickers!
Im for an “at first” sticker.
Fiona
i agree there is a point @ which pointlessness is marked, @ which point energies are best redirected.
@Stevew
A “Coallition for Independence” is brilliant, let’s do it, get as many of these Labour bastards out of power as possible next May.
I suggest the following (regular) course of action.
Crowdsource the mailing to every Scottish home of the WBB (or, at least, target specific richer, elderly areas). But updated with an appendix showing first the unravelling of “The Vow” (which will happen) and possibly also the reports on hidden oil reserves, kept from the Scottish public.
Maybe plan it for every 6 months, say January and July.
You lot have absolutely sickened me here bleeting about AS when you should be up in arms about vote rigging thats being reported all over the world but then again you lot just dont want to know or belive it Baaa Baaa Baaa
Right Scotland listen up, here is the only option, when no voters realise they have been conned and get angry when the arse drops out of their world as it soon will.
A plebiscite is the only option that cannot be stopped.
But like The Home Rule Plebiscite off the late forties which raised 2 million signatures it will be dismissed and thrown into Westminster’s rubbish bin.
Scotland could then appeal to the international courts in the Hague for adjudication and process.
In the meantime Scotland should certainly feel out Russia for support. I have personal experience with the Russians and they have a high awareness and regard for Scotland. It was a Scot that established their first modern health services They are aware off and have a high regard for Burns. Russians I have talked too describe Scotland as their favourite place. Like us they are a warrior nation with a deep love for their Mother Russia similar to Scot’s and their attachment to their land.
Russia would support Scotland to the max and would pay anything for the strategic access to Scottish waters and ports, it would possibly represent one of the most significant events for Russia in modern times, that’s how big it would be. Choosing who are your friends is paramount for a free people.
Russia would completely counterbalance any threat directed at Scotland from England.
Hard to imagine David Cameron poking the Russian bear with a stick, for it’s next position would be up his arse and next seen coming out his mouth. Conjures up a lovely image doesn’t it?
I love how my mind is so graphic so I can share it. Get the picture.
Anyone feel this might be a viable course of action?
No not the stick, the other one.
Tartan Tory says:
I hate to burst your bubble Tony, but 45/55 isn’t what you’d call a convincing majority.
Also, the word ‘separatists’ cannot be used legitamately to describe nearly half a population.
—
When you actually look at the numbers, 1.6m deluded people want independence out of a population of 5.3m.
Not exactly the strongest mandate.
I don’t believe the word ‘separatist’ is in any way related to the numbers within the movement.
What I find astounding with your lot is that you were basically wanting to emulate New Labour’s 13 years of the welfare state that left us with the biggest deficit in history. A hole we’re only just starting to climb out of.
Your deluded vision of ridding Scotland of poverty and food banks. Social inequality affects every country on earth, from the super powers to the 3rd world nations.
No country has solved this problem because it’s a human condition. We have had states try communism, try socialism and capitalism. None have rid themselves of poverty or inequality.
Yet you pathetic gnats with this deluded vision of Scotland as somehow being a special country, believe you could achieve this whilst at the same time offering everything for free and lowering corporation tax.
With these policies, you would have destroyed this country in a very short time.
As a business owner, the first thing I would have done if the gnats got their way – was packed up and moved my operations down south.
May I also say that as a business owner, I see a complete lack of entrepreneurial spirit in Scotland (parts of England too) people are happy to ‘make do’ instead of striving to the top. This is why Scotland has become a very average country in terms of its output compared to the glory days of our famous inventors.
We can’t keep living on the names of people from 200 years ago. Your welfare state would have continued the cycle of average Scots achieving little.
Rule Britannia.
their are politicians, voters and activists
we know that there were no activists in the no campaign, they were paid
we proved this many times on this site.
we should listen to what alan grogan has to say, LFI and RIC are not political parties, should they join the snp?, i dont think so. YES were able to unite many different groups, indeed this was a strength, not a weakness. bear in mind, every activist in glasgow was campaigning for them, ed milliband and lamont no longer have an activist base anywhere in scotland. alan grogan should launch a new political party and include and unite all of these groups. (maybe even the SSP) an agreement with the snp in the ge next year will effectively create a yes scotland party. we need to think and discuss how to move forward here, im sure these groups are talking already
@fred blogger 11.30
It was the EU who insisted Scotland get some form of self-determination otherwise UK would not get into the EU. Tony Blair was forced to do the minimum but kept quiet about the reasons spinning it as Labour’s magnanimous gesture.
link to electricscotland.com
link to theguardian.com
Here we go, smiley fascism thinks we should all be united again too. Interesting how these liggers completely ignore yesterday’s UKOK fraud of not publishing THE VOW timetable nor the rather stark fact that the heartland of which dudes like Crash and The Flipper assumed was theirs, all voted YES.
Why would such an esteemed progressive liberal teanGB broadsheet leave all that stuff out?
James Dow
With all due respect I think that you are deluded in a number of ways
I see no support at all for alliance with russia.
I do not see scotland as a “warrior nation” – heaven forfend.
Cameron and his pals seem to me to be “poking the russian bear” already and it is not impossible they will lead us into world war because of it. They will do whatever the Americans want, naturally.
A post on Twitter:”The saddest part is the four YES districts are the poorest areas of the country.
A cry for help that fell on 55% deaf ears.”
Hi Scotland, Hi UK, Hello World.
I know I’m only young but I have this dream.
A dream of fairness. A dream of justice and equality. A dream of optimism and laughter.
A dream that the people of Scotland can shine a beacon of light to the rest of the world.
Please don’t take my dream away.
link to mtc.cdn.vine.co
Hey Tony, shouldn’t it be Seig Heil instead of Rule Britannia? Thats what your mates were celebrating with last night.
Oh, and whats your business, so I can avoid inadvertently using it?
Thick British Tony the unionist chugger writes –
me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me
Do us a favour Tony stop chugging and fuck off please
What I find astounding with your lot is that you were basically wanting to emulate New Labour’s 13 years of the welfare state that left us with the biggest deficit in history.
Tony that is economic illiteracy. The UK was scuppered by the casino banking deregulated by Mrs T and Ronald Reagan. Our massive debt was cause by buying out the shares of all the failed banks. The BofE didn’t step in as lender of last resort because they didn’t have that much in the reserves. The UK taxpayers stumped up for them as the taxpayers in the US and other countries also did. It had nothing to do with Labour’s social policies.
The great thing about the way the grassroot side of Yes took off is that we were not bound by political parties. Now we can proceed as a grassroots movement and set our own timetables for what we want.
Lots of ideas are being put forward in all different sections of the pro-indy movement, so many that I can’t keep up with them all.
Would be great to have all ideas co-ordinated at some central point so people can see all the options and join a branch of the movement that suits them.
Because that’s what it is now, a movement.
@Dave McEwan Hill
Yeah that’s all very well and good, but how do we do it now?
Where is the mandate for another referendum? What are the chances of Scotland electing a party that stands merely on Scottish independence after we’ve just spent three years milling over that same ground?
We have to wait and see what happens with the SNP, love it or loath it, the party was the primary enabling vehicle in politics.
I’m not saying that we have to follow that narrative, but we need to calm down and see how the land lies once the dust has settled. That membership is increasing with the SNP and Greens is heartening, but as for campaigning for independence we need to in the short term to see how it all lands, I still maintain that our immediate efforts should be in trying to redress the media balance and manipulation that is still thundering on, empowered with a popular mandate.
People are scattered, god knows what is going on the with politicians. Our politics has been handed back over to Westminster, and into the hands of a Lord.
These are precarious times, and like it or not the initiative has been lost. It will take time, possibly a long time, to recover from this. The media in Scotland will try to shoehorn Labour back into Holyrood, as both are devoured by the Tories. We can’t risk having multiple strategies, and that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless we get some political direction. “Dilution” is the biggest risk.
Folks just need to calm down, realise it’s not happening soon, and wait to see what happens. We should all coalesce with regards to the media, and maintenance of the campaign groups. It is too valuable to lose and rebuild again.
@ Croompenstein
How can this uncivil lout fuck off? He has no pals, obviously, or he wouldn’t be here
We should consider Serve Scotland as an organisation that reflects our demand for social justice.
We should intensify the search for new jobs and skills by combining all our efforts to work together.
We should value the more positive relationships with England that the debate of the last few days outside Scotland has made possible and that would reflect our increased self-confidence as a nation.
And we should consider how we can build what we pioneered – networks and relationships as part of a stronger civic society, free of partisan politics, where we are free to disagree but not to be disagreeable.
Crash Gordon speech calls for civic society free of partisan politics, and that might be all down to Labour in Scotland now have no core constituents anymore. Funny that. I belong tae Glasgow. I dont really. My old dad does though.
I’ve not read to much on Wings in the last 2 days. Don’t get me wrong, I’m heartbroken over what happened, and to a degree, life goes on. I have quietly nursed my broken heart, but inside, I seethe with a sullen fury at the betrayal of the Scottish Labour Party.
In the last day or so, we have seen the Unionists make lightening moves in an attempt to try and kill off Nationalism once and for all. The only problem is, that the Unionists are moving too quickly and revealed their hand very openly, which in turn, may have been their weakness. We now see them for what they are.
And as we all know …this has not gone down well across Scotland.
From what I’ve seen in the last 24 hours, the Yes supporters are in a blind fury. I see people change their Facebook Account pictures to one that displays ‘The 45’, and we know we there are 1.6 million who are furious. To a degree, the one thing I am still waiting on however, is the soft No’s or those ‘No’s who decried that if the Union lies after the result be it a No, then they would clamour for ‘independence’. So from checking the Facebook accounts of friends who voted ‘No’, I have seen no such response.
The question is …are these people crying out ‘foul?’ Do they intend to cry ‘foul?’
If we don’t get these people to shout also, and at least take the 1.6 forward to at least 2 million, then we can never beat the system for at least 10 years (blood in the new, and the old generation pass on).
I watch with great interest, and hope that the Unionists tie themselves up in so many knots, that the SNP will also cry ‘foul’, and thus demand a new Referendum (and in THIS parliament; NOT the next since the 2016 may bring in a minority government and thus the other parties block all moves for another referendum).
I am watching very quietly over these next few days as Gordon Brown’s anxiety grows over the realisation that his name and word are on the line, and that Labour could be destroyed forever in Scotland over these next few days should Westminster renege on all deals.
At the moment, and very quietly, I am one of ‘the 45’. Some are crying for us all to join the SNP and thus fund them a war chest to carry this fight on. That might be an idea. Turn the SNP into one of the UK’s biggest parties, and thus terrify Westminster as they realise that this problem is not going away. Our mood is one of a silent fury. We despise Labour more than the Tories now; despised for their treachery. And with silent growing rage …this result that the Unionists have perceived to have won, may turn out to be a neverending nightmare. If we can get many ‘No’s to also shout ‘foul’ …then this is just the beginning…
I’ve not read to much on Wings in the last 2 days. Don’t get me wrong, I’m heartbroken over what happened, and to a degree, life goes on. I have quietly nursed my broken heart, but inside, I seethe with a sullen fury at the betrayal of the Scottish Labour Party.
In the last day or so, we have seen the Unionists make lightening moves in an attempt to try and kill off Nationalism once and for all. The only problem is, that the Unionists are moving too quickly and revealed their hand very openly, which in turn, may have been their weakness. We now see them for what they are.
And as we all know …this has not gone down well across Scotland.
From what I’ve seen in the last 24 hours, the Yes supporters are in a blind fury. I see people change their Facebook Account pictures to one that displays ‘The 45’, and we know we there are 1.6 million who are furious. To a degree, the one thing I am still waiting on however, is the soft No’s or those ‘No’s who decried that if the Union lies after the result be it a No, then they would clamour for ‘independence’. So from checking the Facebook accounts of friends who voted ‘No’, I have seen no such response.
The question is …are these people crying out ‘foul?’ Do they intend to cry ‘foul?’
If we don’t get these people to shout also, and at least take the 1.6 forward to at least 2 million, then we can never beat the system for at least 10 years (blood in the new, and the old generation pass on).
I watch with great interest, and hope that the Unionists tie themselves up in so many knots, that the SNP will also cry ‘foul’, and thus demand a new Referendum (and in THIS parliament; NOT the next since the 2016 may bring in a minority government and thus the other parties block all moves for another referendum).
I am watching very quietly over these next few days as Gordon Brown’s anxiety grows over the realisation that his name and word are on the line, and that Labour could be destroyed forever in Scotland over these next few days should Westminster renege on all deals.
At the moment, and very quietly, I am one of ‘the 45’. Some are crying for us all to join the SNP and thus fund them a war chest to carry this fight on. That might be an idea. Turn the SNP into one of the UK’s biggest parties, and thus terrify Westminster as they realise that this problem is not going away. Our mood is one of a silent fury. We despise Labour more than the Tories now; despised for their treachery. And with silent growing rage …this result that the Unionists have perceived to have won, may turn out to be a never ending nightmare. If we can get many ‘No’s to also shout ‘foul’ …then this is just the beginning…
Never give up. With the big clunking fist centre stage anything is possible.
Ronnie Anderson
My 15yr old son is going into Glasgow City Centre today again. He was with me last night and witnessed the hatred that came from these bigoted NO voters.
It is a terrible situation, when you are taking your life into your own hands because you want to go into your city centre.
All this “Better Together” shit didn’t last long, one of the anthems they were singing in George Square last night was,
“I would rather be a Paki than a Tim”.
I wonder how that went down with Jim Murphy and John Reid.
Yup that cartoon portrays how I felt, and still do in passing phases, but we really have to keep on with this.
It’s bloody painful but I do get inspiration from all Yes supporters. With unexpected political events who knows what opportunities will arise?
SNP, SSP, Scot Green, independent Yes, … all fine with me.
Next time bigger and stronger.
Capella
excellent and thank you + a red face, coz i already have it book marked. (sheepish look on face) 🙂
You can snuff out one candle, but the flame will burn bright until we achieve our goal.
I’ve got it! We were basically going through ‘Empire strikes back’ – Where the Empire & rebellion can co-exist (Was the hope of the Rebellion) We are now coming to ‘Return of The Jedi’ – WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE ENTIRE EMPIRE DOWN THIS TIME!
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
SNP here I come. I have always voted for u, time to she the commitment and join the Party. SOAR ALBA
Tam Jardine says:
5. The press. We have to somehow put these unionist rag’s to the sword and much as I think that newspapers are the past, passing a new stand everyday and seeing no propaganda on every front page has been a killer.
Whether that be building on Newsnet Scotland and producing a printed edition, creating something new or buying a failed Scotsman, we can’t be in the same situation next time. Boycott of unionist rags like the herald daily is essential. Ian Bell, Lesley Riddoch and Iain Macwhirter along with the young guard who has emerged can find a new home.
This is going to be critical in any campaign for Indy and during a Ref.
The YES internet/social media websites have been top in the Ref., but whether we like it or not, the print media/BBC have printed and spread every possible lie, accusation which could harm YES. We’ve been drowned out of the information cycle.
We’ve dominated on the internet but not everybody uses it despite it being widespread.
Print is important when used properly. For most folk who’s daily diet consists of newspapers and the telly. you first get their regular attention when they have something in their hands to read. The best example is the WBB, people were going bonkers just to get it and it went through many hands which means many readers.
The Catalonians have several newspapers and TV stations so the folk are informed and have a majority for Indy even before a Ref.
What could we do with a daily YES newspaper?
1.2 mill. 45ers must be able to sustain say a print run of 50.000. Adverts also bring in money. Do we have enough Weirs, McColls, Souters who could jointly finance such a start-up?
Scotspine says:
20 September, 2014 at 1:17 pm
Hey Tony, shouldn’t it be Seig Heil instead of Rule Britannia? Thats what your mates were celebrating with last night.
Oh, and whats your business, so I can avoid inadvertently using it?
—
Nospine, I realise most of you on this website are teenagers with a fanciful ideological view of the world.
Me, whilst in my prime, am a bit older and wiser than that.
Leaving this nation in the hands of 16 year olds was one of the most cynical political moves I have ever seen.
What do 16 year olds know about economies? do they understand Oil-based economies and the ups/downs associated with such a volatile market?
Look, I don’t condone these minor scuffles with the yes gnats – but the NO’s have spent the last few months being shouted at, spat at and treated like an enemy.
Why do you think we didn’t see many NO signs in people’s windows? because we were afraid of having them panned in by your sickening mob.
And let’s be clear here. At least loyalists are LOYAL to this country. Your lot are loyal to a foreign state called Ireland.
Yes. We know the Catholics voted Yes. Not because it was for the good of Scotland or based on any Scottish pride – but because they wanted to ‘stick it to the English’ over Northern Ireland.
So not only did we have clueless 16 year olds deciding the future of the nation, but we have these religious nutjobs with loyalty to Dublin deciding the future of our state.
And you STILL got beat!
Take yourself homewards tae think again, pal.
Brown’s speech – it’s pure self-aggrandisement.
He did nothing for Scotland to the point of hinder it when in power; here he waits untill London makes its pronouncement and up he steps onto the plaform to tell us we owe it all to him.
They will never snuff us out, 1.6 million Embers will be ready to relight our hope.
Goulashman, the fire is still going here, despite my tears almost putting it out.
I took a walk down to the Parliament this morning and put a note on the sign outside:
To the 55% who voted No
HANG
YOUR
HEADS
IN SHAME.
From the 45% who had the balls to say YES.
I took some photos of it, and watched as people passed by, stopped and went back. Then they took photos too. We aren’t done yet.
After a day of deep depression, picked myself up this morning thanks in no small part to the inspiring comments and ideas on here. Put my Yes badge back on after amending it with a marker to say ‘We are the 45’and went out to face the world.
Back in, after reading the comments above, I’m tending to agree that the ’45’ reference could be divisive. Having a think about more positive imagery – perhaps we could run with the ‘Butterfly Revolution’ and use an image like the butterfly on Andrew Mac’s poster from the Bella Caledonia comp
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Also love the idea of ‘If at first you don’t secede…’
I intended to stay off the pc for a few days.
I still feel hurt. Deeply hurt.
But.
Most folk knew where i stood . A saltire on the balcony and i must have gave away hundreds of badges and posters to anyone who passed my way. I was loud and proud to be an iScotland supporter.
I have had over a dozen young folk ( 20somethings) knocking at the door asking what we can do . They don’t want to give up and i have very little in answers for them.
We need a wee bit organisation , but we can’t ask Stu to do everything. If he keeps the Wings running them superb we have a rallying point. But someone has to organise a political party we can join.
ONE SCOTLAND would be good. So would The Scottish independence party. But i am too ill to do things other than support them.
Please stay Stu. We are the biggest supporters of indi anywhere. We have a voice with Wings. An established support willing to go to any lengths to help.
Give us the advice and someone else organise the rest. I will support you till my last breath.
I need something to cling to. For now i am lost. For the first time in a long time i do not know what to do.
I’m not sure YES Scotland are “tough” enough. They hardly waited a second before distancing themselves from us. They wanted to keep squeeky clean in a dirty war and you cannot win this way. You have to be prepared to be dirty back. Yes Scotland needs a change of tact.
Ian Brotherhood – Sorry my friend but you know your way around politics. Can you stand as an Indi only party member and i will vote , along with anyone else for you buddy. We need something to aim for and you are a great talker and writer. You know the ins and outs.
Anyone else any ideas ??
I just want something to happen rather than lay in my bed pissed off with the world. And the young team are not going away. They are angry.
Are any of you out there involved with a party that wants indi.?
1.6 million Scots need someone to turn too. me included.
Labour for Indy needs to keep the ball moving and form an official party as part of a yes block. If not I can see a lot of disenfranchised former Labour YES voters:
a) not voting in the GE at all.
b) Switching their vote back to New Labour just to fight the tories.
One thing is sure. There is currently a vacuum for the non SNP/SSP/green YES voters. They need a group to get active behind.
I do not see any obvious mechanism for reversing this vote. Nor am I entirely comfortable in doing so given there was a clear majority against independence
But I do think that we have a very large body of people who are not satisfied to remain in a UK which is certainly intent on increasing inequality and returning to 19c levels of poverty and deprivation, if not beyond.
Seems to me that we have reasonable understanding of what happened here: the might of the media is greater than I had hoped: the reach of social media not yet so strong as it might be. Politicians of all kinds have long been in thrall to the press because they recognised the power of the MSM: they are right about that. And of course they and their corporate pals are hounds as well as hares, in that they control the state broadcaster
For me that is the most important lever of power and our task now is to prioritise our goals and find ways to change things in an order and by means not yet clear
When the Leveson inquiry was going on there was quite a lot of shock about what we learned about the press and widespread will to hold the media to account: a process they claim for themselves wrt to everyone else but find unacceptable when applied to themselves. We do not have a free press, we have a platform for the elite and that is all we have. They have shown in the refusal to comply with the Leveson recommendations that they are above the law and more powerful than parliament. That should be our first job: to change that.
Leveson’s information has been amply reinforced by our experience throughout the referendum: and the role of the BBC is ever more exposed as part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
I do not know how much it costs to buy and run a mainstream newspaper, but I do know that cover price is part of the income and advertising is also an important source of revenue. In the past we had a fairly diverse press, per Chomsky’s book “Manufacturing consent” and that was undermined by the lack of advertising in left wing papers. But that was all a long time ago. The Scotsman was bought for £160 million in 2005 and it is surely worth less now: and we can do what the corporates do: we can borrow then asset strip: the building is bound to be worth a fair bit.
It seems to me that we have the possibility of buying one of the existing newspapers, though it would not be easy if crowdfunded because the fact of the fundraiser would raise the price beyond what it is worth: perhaps there are ways round that, though
Business for Scotland is in a position to place advertisements in such a newspaper and the trades unions and other independence groups could also provide funds by placing information announcements etc
Such a paper would not need to make profit: break even would be enough.
We have long bewailed the lack of even one newspaper to represent our views on independence: but for myself that same is true on many many issues: I have no press voice at all on matters of economics or social policy or much else.
We have the journalistic talent to staff such a paper: it is all around us on the net.
What do people think? Is that a high priority and is it feasible?
The hand pinching the candle should watch its cuff – looks pretty flammable to me
@Truth
Wear those cufflinks on March 24 2016 in honour of the Independence Day that wasn’t.
In fact we need to work to have some mass event on that day to mark it.
Not sure if this petition has been mentioned yet
link to yes2014.net
but in the absence of any form of direct action so far, we might as well keep on making a nuisance of ourselves.
Wings readers and contributors. An extremely well regarded and respected scottish blog needs your kindness and help.
Do not let all the voices go out when we need them now more than ever to fight back against the fear.
Please help SCOTgoesPOP! to keep going and keep the flame alive and the scottish voices strong.
link to indiegogo.com
Even a very small amount could make a big difference.
Tony
Your insulting terminology betrays your pretence to be business owner in your prime. By contrast, I’m a conservative, Protestant Managing Director who is approaching 50, easily found as one of the signatories to the letter of the 200. Stick that in your bigoted pipe – sideways!
Fiona reply I did not say there was existing support for a Russian alliance. I suggested exploring one as need’s arise as an option.
We were once described as a warrior nation perhaps I am invoking the dead.
And Putin has them all completely bluffed or scared or both.
And more power to his arm.
By calling me deluded presumes you are not, clever girlie you.
@ James123
“A “Coallition for Independence” is brilliant, let’s do it, get as many of these Labour bastards out of power as possible next May.”
We need to constantly hammer it home to every one of Scotland’s working classes between now and the Election in May, 2015:
Labour have become the Tory’s mouthpiece in Scotland.
We need to take a leaf out of their book – the way they used the MSM to constantly vilify and demonise the YES movement: We don’t have the MSM but we do have the social media. We need to say it so often that people really start to believe it.
This so heartening to read after such genuine sorrow is starting to subside and be replaced with concerted determination.
In 2008 Chris Walker, a frequent contributor to the Herald letter pages, often referred to the patronising sham (jam?) of hollow unionist ‘promises’ of what Chris called “the Tartan Shawl” effect and it’s insidious patronising comfort but was in fact thread-bare. Well here today is proof for Chris’s predictions and those who fell for it.
I re-listened to Mr Salmond speaking to David Dimbleby just before the vote where he twice confirmed that it was only in his “personal opinion” we would not have another Independence referendum in a generation. Strangely he was smiling when he said it. Was he anticipating as the perceptive politician that he is – that he would expect the next Independent referendum instigated if the first failed as he stepped down giving full rein to his successor at the earliest opportunity?
Our Scottish ‘Jeannie’ is definitely out of the bottle and with increasing groundswell I can’t wait for our Scottish GE where the ‘Tartan Shawl’ will be seen holed and torn and those who once sought its lukewarm promise demand Independence along with all of us who never doubted it will come – one day very soon.
EVERY household which voted ‘NO’ should have this framed and hung on the living room wall.
Lets see what the big 3 come up with now to wriggle out of their promises.
Should they refuse, the people should hold another referendum quickly and get it right next time!
All this talk of forming a new party or putting up an Independence Candidate is doomed to failure. They will laugh at you. It has taken the SNP 70 or 80 years to get to the stage when they can be taken seriously as a political force. It is heartening to learn that more than 3000 people have joined the SNP in the last 24 hours. Remember who it was who won the vote for the Union – it was the LABOUR party and the BIG LIE from Gordon Brown on pensions and Alistair Darling on not being able to use the pound. Labour Better Together NoThanks people were standing outside Post Offices telling pensioners that if YES win then that will be the last pension that they get. So great was the terror instilled in some of these poor old souls that some on them were hoarding food because NO Labour people had told them that they would not be able to use the pound if they voted YES. The real enemy of Scotland is the Labour Party. Their lies must be exposed. If there are any future fund raisers it should be to place full page ads in newspapers with a picture of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling with the word LIAR and an explanation of why – and let them sue. If the newspapers will not take the ad then put them on billboards. The LABOUR PARTY – the disgrace of Scotland.
I fully agree with those calling for an electoral pact with all independence parties not standing against each other. For those not fielding candidates policy input could be offeres in return for all activists working behind a common candidate. With fptp there is a tipping point when all the gains come at once. Together there is no reason we can’t have an overall majority of Scots MPs. I would widen the alliance further to include Plaid and the English/Welsh Greens.
On the matter of the 45, I can see where people have issues with it. That said it is a reminder that almost half of us do not consent to Westminster government.That’s a powerful statement. Perhaps it should be 45+. Another idea is Yet, following on from Yeswith obvious continuity.
Nana, One Scotland that would be a good banner for all of us.
@Fiona 1.45, well said lass, fully agree with you.
Folks, going on about the count will get us nowhere. We have to accept that the result was declared and that it won’t be overturned no matter what. If indeed tampering could be proved the most that might, and I mean might just happen is that the individuals concered would be prosecuted. Don’t get hung up about it, we have to move forward.
Poor wee tony the troll no mates, here again we know how to deal with trolls. Don’t swear at them if you can avoid it. Just ignore him and he’ll get fed up and go away.
Lot’s of ideas bouncing around, I think we need to give ourselves a wee bit more time , and pick up the cudgels again on
Monday.
Love the cartoon with Hamish and his match.
Sturgeon also stated that she thought the referendum was a generational thing.
However this was before the No parties all made a range of sweeping promises. I am sure that team London will get together to add additional powers but as usual it will be the minimum they think they can get away with.
So if they deliver a few tax changes here and there as opposed to the extensive new powers and ‘major new powers over tax, spending and welfare services’, then it is game on.
The wound is raw and the pain is acute and I see the tormentors and liars still strutting around so I have resolved two things. The first is never again pay for a broadcast licence as the BBC led and indeed choreogphed the deceptions and fear.The second is to maintain my membership of the SNP.
I want to see the saltire burned by the Unionist narrow British nationalist replaced by a million saltires and flown with pride. I want to see the demise of the hated Union flag as it a symbol of Empire loyalists.
C’mon Baby Light My Fire. 🙂
I can understand the sentiment behind the picture but I do not agree with it. I am angry but not without hope. We have achieved a lot this time round. This is NOT over. Not by a long shot. I’d like to make a plea now to fellow Yessers. I have confirmation from friends who witnessed the count at Inslington (spelling?) and who say it was conducted with integrity. By all means, ask for an independently conducted investigation but don’t make it the focus of your efforts. You need to a) step back and take some time out and be good to yourselves, b) come back and start reaching out to the other side, listen to their concerns respectfully and talk to them amicably. Respect that they weren’t fully convinced of the benefits of Independence and try to address that. If they didn’t know about various aspects of the debate, then inform them without being condescending and show them where they can find further information. If they feel we are better off together, have a conversation with them about whether a solution for the Scots, English, Welsh and Northern Irish can be arrived at together or if a federal system is not achievable and each nation has to address the issue by itself. I am sceptical that a federal Union is going to happen but it does not mean that we can try and approach the issue of the democratic deficit together across the UK. I hope that such a conversation would enlighten both sides of the debate and it would also encourage our English, Welsh and Northern Irish friends to replicate our grassroots movement. If we get this right, each nation will get political independence while maintaing the cultural and social bonds.
@James Dow – greetings and salutations. Funnily enough I have been thinking if Russia/Putin would be able and willing to assist us. The Russians do like Rabbie Burns and Scotland as you say.
Its the level of assist we could ask or they give, I’m not sure of. What you did say though has merit and at least needs to be given some thought. Of course any decision on that would be way above out heads, and as we are in the UK they would have something to say about that.
I was having alaugh last week saying if we were independent we could offer Leuchars to the Russians for £2 or Bn per year. If only we were …..
Tony, 5.3 million eh? How many of those are children or did that not enter your thick head.
One of the things we need to address urgently is to develop and put out a mainstream media outlet like a TV channel or a newspaper that is genuinely balanced. Such an outlet would help reaching those voters who don’t use the internet. We can’t rely on social media to carry the load alone. I’d like to see a Wings over Scotland daily or Sunday paper or something like that.
We are coming up with ideas again. Lets do this!
We need to let those young people who show up the Empire from a rickshaw, who make videos like Pauls Story, take centre stage. Encourage them in any way possible. Harness their positive vision for their country.
Can we maybe get the WBB translated into other tongues? I know Asians voted with us, but I didn’t detect any Poles. And the comments about elderly relatives are right. Get in there and visit often. Make sure next time they are also on board.
I have been researching the telly thing. It looks like I can use a monitor to watch DVD’s Netflix and 4OD. So I’ll be having one of those and the MOT can stick their telly tax without any law being broken at all.
I truely want to keep up the agitation now. Not this passive way I have done for 40 years. Writing odd letters. Voting SNP every few years. We will win this much sooner if we don’t surrender.
Yes Scotland. Make this happen.
Why not call our newparty THE SCOTTISH PEOPLES PARTY as you need to look after old and as we cant carry on blaming them they are all old school.
fiona
personally i think the maj of MSM should be dumped.
we have to create a key points narrative, for sure, but this can be done in a single one off publication.
things like how the independence argument was lost what should we focus on next etc etc.
keep honing our skills, say campaigning speech actions in glasgow.
keep social media vibrant with hope over fear, and that we can change things we are powerful, which is already happening.
anything that continues to keep people engaged, with the indy movement.
@ Fiona.
I agree. That’s why I don’t think rushing to create a new party, to try and force it again now or at the next election is a good idea or likely to work.
Harness the power the young get them involved this is there tme, create a paper also cigital news site dont stop keep going .
@slackshoe says: 20 September, 2014 at 9:24 am:
“The candle can be lit again”
“McConnell’s gaed oot again”
It is a #the45 firestorm on Twitter.
We narrowly lost a battle on Thursday, but the war will be won, and it won’t take that long.
Plans are being put forward for the 2015 and 2016 elections and bye-elections, to utilise the power of the Yes campaigners and supporters to get Scotland to where it needs to go.
It appears that thousands of people are joining the SNP, Greens, and SSP.
Less than 24 hours to say “We told you so”
Mrs Fedupwithbbc
that would do me, gets rid of the nationalist word, we are now a people’s movement who also live in scotland.
it does mark a transition from being governed, to individual and collective, self determination, for the common good.
We can take a brief respite to rebuild our reserves while we watch the Westminster parties fall out in their preparations for the general election next May and break their promises to Scotland.
As I said yesterday, we are having to return to Westminster as the point of attack, given Holyrood for the moment is toothless. Our goal as some have said above, is to oust Scottish sitting MP’s at Westminster and replace them with ours.
This might be more difficult than first thought and much depends on what David Cameron does. Scottish Labour are undoubtedly going to promote the line that voting Labour is the only chance of getting the Tories out. I think it will be very difficult to counter this, as there is little doubt that if we oust Scottish Labour MP’s at Westminster, this helps the Tories.
Any thoughts?
Labour can now point to itself as also being the defender of the Union to the those who vote No, the majority in Scotland. The MSM will not hold them to great account for failing in their promises.
This is the biggest threat people seem to be missing.
Why don’t we ask Putin if can send us some peace keeping troops for the streets of Glasgow? maybe the Russian police can help us to identify ans arrest these thugs because our own media and police are doing nothing.
@tartan tory, fair enough you counted the papers but you cannot not know their authenticity. If there was so many very elderly votes perhaps the dead voted as in 79!
I see we have a good one on shift this afternoon with all the tropes out together – businessman, loyalist, subsidy junkies, gnat, vile assaulting mobs roaming the streets, 12 year old kids on forums, etc., etc.
Has he done the bit about being a green voter but couldn’t vote for Emperer Eck’s vision of Scotland?
Many people are talking about the next referendum. I agree that we need to have one as soon as possible, in order to make sure that our 45% Yes support does not fade away.
But I use the term “as soon as possible” advisedly. This could mean 5 years or more. We need to let the political landscape evolve so that we can turn developments to our advantage. There are going to be many political events in the next few years that will have a direct bearing on the independence debate – UK general election, Scottish general election, EU exit referendum and of course the failure of the “more powers” intiative. Depending on the outcome of these events, there will emerge a time to declare the intent to hold another referendum.
And of course, we must not forget that the over 65s voted nearly 3:1 for No. The longer we wait, the more this group will attrite, in a terminal way if you know what I mean.
One of the faults of the Yes campaign was not addressing head on the allegations made by the No side. The Wee Blue Book should not have been necessary had the Yes campaign been more on the ball earlier on.
Lots of my friends voted No for a variety of reasons: too much hassle,perceived instability, not convinced the upheaval would bring much increased benefit, like being part of the UK. Interestingly many of these No’s had previously told me they were don’t knows.
Has anyone started making 45% badges and car stickers yet? I’m keen to get some.
Tartan Tory says:
20 September, 2014 at 1:55 pm
Your insulting terminology betrays your pretence to be business owner in your prime. By contrast, I’m a conservative, Protestant Managing Director who is approaching 50, easily found as one of the signatories to the letter of the 200. Stick that in your bigoted pipe – sideways!
—
People make baffling decisions all the time.
Did you actually listen to the 90% of business leaders, economists and global opinion that said independence was a bad idea?
Did you bother to look at the figures or was the romanticised imagery of a lone piper on a misty hill of heather enough for you to jump into the abyss?
Thank god you were defeated. Proddy or Catholic, as long as you were defeated, I don’t care.
Anyway guys, I have to say, you aren’t taking this defeat well.
The people have spoken, yet it seems (in typical inimitable leftist style) that you don’t want to listen when the message is not one you want to hear.
Accept your defeat and enjoy the joys of the United Kingdom. Get out of the house for a bit. Further than your close. Meet people from other walks of life. Not just social security dependent Yessers.
One Queen, one country, one flag.
@ Balaaargh, leave him to it. BT won with giant fraud, fraud campaign, bogus devo, fraudster media, fraudster Labour in Scotland but they’re still not happy. Wonder why.
Agree we need proper organisation to bring all the Yessers together.
Different groups like SSP, Greens and SNP can work together to get the most likely candidate in at WM to get rid of the unionist parties.
What these BT folk don’t seem to realise is the knives will now be out by the cons and the UKIP to shaft the Labour party and they are fools if they think this wont happen.
Wee Duncan wont be smiling for long when he realises he has helped to kill off a large Labour supporting section of the community.
I was at the count in East Ren, and when they tipped a box out they told us it was postal votes, we were there to gauge the nos. the first PV box I counted was approx. 90% No.
There were several hooray henries there, not Lab, who were smirking all over the place and being condescending.
These will love to see the labour party fail
Like Gallowglass, I fear for 2015.
Unless Labour foul up spectacularly (and they won’t -they only have to tread water for a few months) – they will undoubtedly and credibly claim to Scots voters that they are the best means of displacing the Tories in 2015 , and that an SNP vote will “let the Tories in” Then, as GG says, they will also try to claim the Unionist vote.
It’s a very depressing outlook
@Kid Spotlight
I have read a few of your posts and you keep on going on about the SNP, blaming them for the failure to get over 50 per cent. Your name is not familiar to me, and you appear to have start posting here in the last few days. You have repeatedly said that the SNP’s name has prevented independence. You have not explained that it was the SNP’s victory in 2011 that made the referendum possible in the first place. So the SNP’s name was no barrier to many voters supporting it, but yet it is a barrier too, and prevented, independence somehow? You do know that the SNP were formed well before the BNP, UKIP etc? So given this why should the SNP change their name?
It is the people’s fear of politics & expressing a political view in polite conversation that creates political corruption. Moreover it is the people’s ignorance of politics that perpetuates injustice and allows the electorate to be conned – over and over.
If you want to partake in democracy make it mandatory to study it first (like a driving test) and have a certificate that confirms you understand the basics of economics, political theory and the constitution before they can vote. This should be part of the school curriculum, but also available at night classes. Nothing illustrates this better than a couple of women (interviewed by the Guardian) wandering around like headless chickens outside a polling station last Thursday not knowing which way to vote because it had all come along too quickly.
Secondly make voting mandatory too – with a £100 fine forfeit – while adding ‘NONE OF THE ABOVE’ as an option on ballot papers so voters can officially register dissatisfaction with the choices on offer without resorting to apathy and simply not turning up.
Meanwhile another more immediate plea – don’t join the 45. Do not be branded with the tag of defeat. Do not make 45% into some kind badge of honour – it isn’t, it’s a bloody disgrace and it’s for losers. The YES camp got thumped – deal with it effectively and positively.
@Footsoldier 2:24
I think you are right that the labour party will present themselves as the only way of keeping the tories out. Since they are indistinguishable from the tories that may not play as well as it used to. Though astonishingly there are apparently still people who have not recognised that simple fact.
What would be interesting (though not important from my perspective) would be the reaction of the many labour supporters south of the border who have said that a yes vote would condemn them to tory rule forever. It might come as something of a surprise to them if there were no Scottish labour MP’s after a no vote. It would of course condemn them to tory rule forever: but not for the reason they think: they also imagine there is some kind of substantive difference, apparently
Will we see the Green Party as new force in Scotland? Who is there left to vote for?
With apologies to my late friend Hamish Henderson.
logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/the-thirldom-come-hauf-o-ye.html
@Harry Shanks
Eh, SLAB tried that same tactic in 2010, the old support us to keep out the Tories, and what we ended up with was another Tory government we did not vote for. How can they credibly claim that they can keep the Tories out, when elections are decided in the south of England? That is just not true.
Sorry, fluffed the link:
link to logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk
Tony, loyalists are loyal to London which is not in our country.
Will the Green Party in Scotland become a major player in Scotland? Who is there to now vote for in Scotland? A new party must be an option.
confirms you understand the basics of economics, political theory and the constitution before they can vote.
Well that lets out nearly all politicians, business people, ordinary voters no matter how they try to understand those things, academics who give lectures about those things in mainstream educational institutions and all of the press.
Who do you imagine will be allowed to vote in this utopia?
Unless you are at the extremities of left and right I see the SNP as a worthy upholder of the hopes of Scotland. In some ways I see the departure of Alex Salmond,a man I admire,as an opportunity for his successor to take another path to our goal and not be burdened with the generation promise.
Labour made much of the fact that we could do a lot of the things promised without independence but conveniently forgot we would have to rob Peter to pay Paul. They also made much of John Swinney’s positional paper and Bradford’s leaked paper and her black hole. We urgently need a better media to expose such deceptions.Perhaps finding the truth should be part of Modern Studies. We certainly need strong leadership to insist the truth will out. Any new party would have difficulties.
The SNP conference in November I think will provide a new beginning without beginning new,if you get my drift.
I am reassured by the rebirth of hope here. Being a democrat I would have accepted and bowed down to the majority view but not when I recall the vile lies to the elderly on pensions and to women on workers rights. The result has little legitamacy given the Avalanche of deception.
I spent most of yesterday in tears but today it is time to move on. As had been said by many, this is not over. Perhaps we were too confident, we were definitely naive to the power of the Westminster and the media. But today we must regroup, plan and come back fighting (though not like them in George Square).
I agree with the sentiments over using “45”. I think though it is a simple and effective holding point for the next few days and weeks whilst we reform. I like “One Scotland” and think that is probably the way to go.
I also think Jim McIntosh’s (12:47) “If at first you don’t Secede…” is genius.
There are many now who voted No who are suddenly realising the enormity and the implications of their decision and wishing they had voted Yes, granted I suspect more than a few of us would have woken up on the 19th and initially gone “Oh c*** what have we done?”. But then we would have come to our senses and got on with the the job in hand.
Westminster have poked the hornet’s nest. Many are now realising how they were duped and are coming, belatedly, to our side. First time round we had a few tens of thousands of activists now I am sure we will number hundreds of thousands.
We need to keep Westminster under pressure. I’ve already sent an email to my MP, Mike Crockart (LD) asking why their promises have been broken already. I don’t expect a response but it is a start. We also need to keep chipping away at the soft Nos; the ones that fell for DevoPanic. Make sure that nobody forgets as each deadline date passes. When they complain about Westminster policy or Holyrood cuts, remind them there was another way. We shouldn’t overplay the “told you so” but we have to keep the arguments alive and take every opportunity that comes.
We will not forget. We will not wait 20 years. We have taken Scotland from a third in favour to nearly half. I am quite sure that Westminster duplicity will help us get over the finishing line.
I just emailed this to my local MP and await a rrsponse:
As you are my local MP and you supported the Better Together campaign perhaps you can explain to me why promises made to the Scottish Electorate are already being broken. I refer of course to the promise of a ‘timetable for new powers’ being published as a motion before Parliament on 19th September, something which has failed to materialise.
Rest assured that I will be working within the law to ensure that the self serving ‘Scottish’ Labour Party occupy one less seats in Westminster than your allies, the Conservative Party. Your party, by standing shoulder to shoulder with organisations like the BNP, Britannica, SDL, all officially registered as supporters of the Better Together campaign has betrayed the ideals on which the Labour party was founded.
The disgusting scenes in George Square on 19th September follow as a direct result of your Party’s implicit agreement to give credibility to the aforementioned organisations.
If you have any decency you will hang your head in shame for what you have done and if you have any honour you will resign your seat to allow a by-election at which the people who previously voted for you (to my shame I include myself as one of them) can decide whether you represent their wishes.
While you consider your future political career I’m sure you don’t need reminding that, despite your devisive No campaign, with its scaremongering tactics targeted at some of the most vulnerable members of society, the City of Glasgow voted YES 53% to 47%.
Awaiting your response – one of Glasgow’s 53 and Scotlands 45
Paul D, could you provide some evidence of those who have regretted voting No?
Nan, One Scotland is good, inclusive and cohesive.
Hey guys there some sort of movement for demonstrations for scotland to prclaim independnce there has already been marches in dundee and other cities edinburgh on the 27th this month apparently theres a clause in the act of union that basically says that if england starts to act in a way that is not in scotlands interest and actually damages scotland that we can legally leave the union without a referenddum but only if people cn prove that they have acted in bad faith which by going back on their promises and rigging the vote rhey have done apparently we just have to provide the evidence of wrongdoings at the polling stations (VOTE RIGGING) and if enough proof is produced we can legally without a referendum LEAVE THE ACT OF UNION as it has acted in bad faith (rigging votes) maybe we should join the march. Aparrently a large number of videos have been leaked showing vote tampering in at least 5 of the council district dundee fife edinburgh glasgow clackmanshire (dont know if i got the last name speeld right) and they have video evidence of vote tampering hence the low turnout in dundee and especially glasgow it wasnt 10 votes there it was 100k votes the turnout was acutally higher in glasgow than what was being portrayed and a russian referedu observer group who work for the kremlin stated that the vote was rigged you wont see it on uk media but its out there have a look facebook is heaving with vids of the actual rigging caught on international tv priceless.
We all may have “lost” the vote, however we need to take note of all we have gained. Many are now awake and realise just how manipulative the UK government and media actually are. Not just here in Scotland but throughout the British Isles. It has shocked a lot out their comfortable world view that the sort of things that go on in elsewhere in the world just wouldn’t happen here in good old blightey. Wrong. How many of us have a much greater sympathy for those in repressed regimes now due to our voice not being properly represented? Our thoughts, opinions and feelings being made invalid and impotent by a power elite? Do not get me wrong, I fully understand we cannot be compared with places like Iraq or Palestine as we actually got a chance to vote peacefully and the UK government did allow a binding vote to happen in the first place (because Scotland had voted in massive numbers in a landslide election). But it rips me up inside when being made to feel my opinion doesn’t matter. We may not have been oppressed in the manner of other governments like Iran or north Korea but we were most certainly suppressed.
This feeling is shared by many around the world and is one of the reasons why Scotland was being watched closely. They were looking for inspiration in their own battles of self determination and in the process of doing so interpreted that we were voting for independence not out of some romantic nationalist cause but for something greater, the dream of a new journey, a new and fairer way of living. A chance to throw off the yolk of the old corrupt, self serving consumer society. The Yes movement was an inclusive organisation that acted as a social microcosm of the planet, open to all who lived here, regardless of colour, race or creed. We thrived in this campaign because our differences were a strength not a hindrance. A place where all our opinions mattered and counted. Not dismissed as irrelevant. We were all in it together for something greater than ourselves.
I believe this movement still has the potential to shake the world regardless of the vote outcome because it represents hope over fear, truth over lies. How can we fight back against the ever greater level of corporate dictatorship where they can sue soveriegn governments and bully their way into fracking and growing GMO’s against the express wishes of the people? Do we roll over and give up after getting beaten down? No. We rise again, as we are so very good at and keep at it just like Bruce’s spider.
It is said that we are knocked down in life in order to learn how to pick yourself back up. Let us show the world how to take the power peacefully back into their own hands even when they fail at first. Scotland’s referendum was only the first tremor of a massive eruption waiting to happen. We can still create change but we need to keep at it while we still can. More and more restrictive and insane laws are being pushed through all the time.
I didn’t die, I just took a heart attack, but I am now on the recovery track and will soon be well enough to get back into the next faze of tactics. Pick my target and go get em.
’45’ represents defeat at least twice in Scotland’s history.
George,
Firstly, leave the conspiracy theories to Facebook where they belong. Secondly, learn to punctuate.
None of what you have said is in any way helpful and I’m fairly sure that long time Wingers will agree that it is not welcome here.
@muttley79
I know it’s not true, YOU know it’s not true – but I think we BOTH know that’s what SLAB will claim, and there are still a lot of sheep who will find it credible when the MSM pumps it out every day.
For those of you who would like to dump your TV licence fee, but perhaps can’t quite do it. When you renew next time, get it in someone else’s name at your address.
When the renewal comes in, send it back. Not at this address. Then play cat and mouse as long as you can, and repeat the process.
Tony: Did you bother to look at the figures or was the romanticised imagery of a lone piper on a misty hill of heather enough for you to jump into the abyss?
Listen up, thicko – All your heroes, Brown, Miliband, Cameron, and their handmaiden, Darling, agreed Scotland has all it needs to be a successful prosperous nation.
Are you able to assimilate their unequivocal statements all saying the same thing?
What they then said is redundant and illogical – ‘But you are better staying in the UK!’
They had very good reasons to add the falsehood – they need Scotland. Blindly loyal to a myth, people like you make good fodder as soldiers for their illegal wars.
Tony, for us this is not a defeat, 25% to 45% in a few short years is fantastic progress.
Keep burning saltires please and rioting in our biggest city which just voted YES.
I am sure your views will convince many more people to turn to the light.
My wife is trying to join the SNP online and having a lot of difficulty doing it, is it possible the site is too busy?
Lets put the RED tories out of power in Scotland, and for all those naysayers who used to said the SNP would be finished if they got independence, (complete bolloxs). Don’t think either the YES campaign or its 1.6 million followers are going either.
LABOUR NO MORE, TORIES NO MORE, LIBDEM NO MORE, BROWN NO MORE, DARLING NO MORE, BBC NO MORE, MSM NO MORE,
Here is a Tweet from Bella Caledonia:
link to twitter.com
List of unionist politicians, I think it is mainly SLAB politicians. Time for tactical voting from 1.6 Yes voters? We would need to reach 1.6 million people, and co-ordinate and plan an new era of tactical voting to defeat as many pro-dependency politicians as possible.
Don’t feed the troll.
Tony – eat your cereal.
K1 2:57:
I am not going to “out” folk on here but the number includes (to my shame) a couple of members of my family, an old school friend and a couple of friends of friends. I know that is not many but then we are only one day on.
Bob Sinclair
Stop being condescending. There’s an army of young people out there who have just become politicised, and now feel robbed.
They felt they were part of a revolution that was going to change things and create something new. We need to help them channel their energies and encourage their motivation to carry on.
Punctuation my arse.
Stories of friendships being over, families arguing, relationships breaking up.
That will be Salmond’s legacy, dividing a nation.
You CREATED this division. Usually a movement for independence is organic and grows from grassroots to a crescendo of a majority and THAT’S when you announce a referendum.
What the nats did was announce the referendum and THEN tried to create this movement to support it. You didn’t have support for independence prior to this, you had a minority.
This is what has created the division in society now.
As if your Dublin/Vatican supporters weren’t enough of a problem with their sectarianism, now there’s a political division too.
And it seems you’re intent on keeping it going.
Do us all a favour nats, melt away. Find a new hobby to fill your days.
I understand after months/years of campaigning, you have this empty feeling. A bit like coming home after a great holiday. You have the blues. So you’re trying to keep this movement going – but the horse is dead. Stop flogging it.
I bleed red, white and blue.
“All right. I can see the broken eggs. Where’s this omelette of yours?”
Panait Istrati
The candle’s out.
There are roughly 1.6 million matches.
It won’t be out for long.
Westminster is clearly delusional if they think this is over.
I’m proud to vote Yes might be a bit better than the 45, although I’ve seen on twitter that a few SNP politicians have adopted it too…
I think we all need a short holiday. Anyone know when National Collective are making their statement?
Mutley 79 at 2:42pm
I wholly agree with your comment. It has been clear since the result that new posters have appeared on here with the sole intent of spreading mis-information and division.
They want to make people who come here, feel that it is all over. As you and I both know, this isn’t the finish, this is just the beginning.
I see some people asking about the comments by Alex Salmond about this being a ‘once in a generation thing’. Let me tell you, in his press conference yesterday, when asked about this by the press, he emphasised that in every situation where he had stated so, that it was his personal opinion. He is not a grand master black belt politican for nothing.
Take heart folks, the SNP is getting stronger day by day, with many people who want independence joining their ranks. Independence is their founding principle. They eat it, sleep it, and breath it.
Our next chance will come at the UK general election in a few months time. We should work our socks off to secure all the seats for the SNP – we have shown we can do it. Then whoever wins – Tories or Labour, will fail to deliver the much promised powers, and it will be quite right then, to call another referendum.
I know that the YES campaign was made up of many parties and none, but I really feel that only the SNP has the organisation, credibility, money and clout to secure so many seats, and also have the ability to scare Westminster silly.
In 2016, for the Scottish parliament, we should make sure we work with all the pro indy parties (scottish scoialists, Green party and SNP) to secure a majority pro indy in the Scottish Parliament, as without that we will NEVER get a referendum.
The campaign hasn’t stopped, it’s just taking a few days rest. Get ready, because there is lots to do.
As if your Dublin/Vatican supporters weren’t enough of a problem with their sectarianism, now there’s a political division too.
Whooooop Whoooop Whoooop
Feck the sectarian bell end alert has gone off. How the hell did that happen?
@heedtracker says: 20 September, 2014 at 2:35 pm:
“Wonder why.”
You mean you really don’t know?
I do – but then I always did know. It is a bit like the wee child who misbehaves in order to gain a little more attention from an already attentive parent. The reason is because the child is, in spite of the attentive parent, still feeling insecure and probably a little inadequate.
A bit like the English political parties at Westminster at this time. We have a de facto parliament of the country of England masquerading as a Parliament of the United Kingdom. It has 533 English Members; 59 Scots members; 40 Welsh Members and 18 from Northern Ireland. Now in addition to the 533 English members a goodly number of those from Wales from Scotland are whip-able by their Unionist parties to vote for the good of their English heavy party and the N. Irish members are basically Tories and , “Loyalists”.
Yet now we have the Labour Party is warning because the do not want, “two classes of MP”. Meanwhile David Cameron wants English MPs to decide on English only laws as more power is devolved to Scotland. Yet Westminster is the de facto parliament of England. That means the reallity is Westminster has ignored the truth that the United Kingdom Parliament is legally exactly what it describes itself as, (a bipartite united KINGDOM), not a country, and Westminster had split up the United Kingdom along the lines of countries, (even although three of them belong to the Kingdom of England), but bizarrely has retained Westminster as the Parliament of the COUNTRY of England. That means the truth is we have the parliament of the country of England devolving England’s powers to the other three devolved COUNTRY parliaments even although Scotland is officially a fully equally sovereign KINGDOM in a bipartite union of Kingdoms with the three country Kingdom of England.
So like the Westminster parliament this, err!, person is feeling in need of attention and reassurance from his parental substitutes.
Robert Louis
the dormant desire for scottish independence is awakened and it will never sleep again.
i once saw joining a political party a bridge too far for me, i’ll certainly consider joining the SNP though.
but i prefer the name the scotish people’s party, or derivatives of that concept.
@ Tony
hiya Tony.
That’s a terrific Gordon Brown tribute act you’ve got there.
What time are you appearing at the Party Conference?
@Robert Louis
I agree with you 10000000%
Tony, I agree with you about growing things organically. Your views are the compost.
Your blood may be red white and blue but it is ours that is being shed by thugs from your side.
In the name of humanity desist.
Rev :
Refs over, can’t you take out these ‘bigoted rule brittania’ trolls ??
Tiresome FFS. All for free speech, but this tranch of numpties bring nothing to the table but a very bad smell.
Go BBC / Scotchman on there ass !!
Folks stop the aggression – it’s exactly what they want
@Tartan Tory says: 20 September, 2014 at 12:07 pm: “I’ve just joined the SNP! Perhaps we should all do this?
I don’t know what all their policies are and I’m sure I’ll disagree with some, but I joined based on the aims set-out in their constitution. I’ve never been a member of any political movement before.
Welcome aboard, Tartan Tory, and you can find out lots facts here :- link to snp.org
It is very, very, very busy just now so it may take a while to load. You will also have a local constituency group. You will be delighted to know you now have exactly the same number of votes in party matters as Alex Salmond who is still our leader.
The 45 badges …
link to twitter.com
Thinking about breaking a principle of a lifetime and join a political party. I can’t quite decide on which one. I like both the Greens and the SNP….not totally averse to the SSP either. Choices! SNP join page seems to have crashed though.
To replace “Yes” , “Yet” is pretty good . 45 has too many negative connotations. How about 9/20 – a powerful image of the reality that 9 of every 20 who voted want independence for Scotland.
Stay alive. Oor time will come.
Scotland needs WINGS to keep going.
We’re been duped and lied to by BBC News/UK Government.
I want an impartial unbiased online TV & Radio NEWS stations, broadcasting news i can trust.
ps. eg: Bateman Broadcasting, Referendum TV, IndyScotRadio.org
pps. YES Scotland & Scottish Government/SNP should have had online News broadcasting. Do it now in time for next elections.
The tragedy of the Tony and his likes is plain to see –
– they do not have a country.
English disown them, Scotland doesn’t want them, and Northern Ireland contains them in ghettos.
They are stateless.
All they have left to hold on to is self-delusion.
this is a very good vid there are a series of them by NHS privatization, but is also clarifies general anti-democracy issues.
link to youtube.com
Ananurhing
That’ll be me ‘telt’.
Actually, no it won’t. Far too many people have worked hard to make Wings a site where people can get good solid information & I for one am not going to sit back & say nothing when people start posting ill conceived conspiracy theories here.
With all due respect, if you have nothing useful to say then just say nothing.
If you had just lost a cup final narrowly, you wouldn’t disband your team and tell them to come back in 3 years to try again. You would say lets build on everything that was good about our team and lets reduce the things that were not so good. So, I am delighted to see that that is what so many people want to do.
By the way, even your best player may need to be replaced by another very good player because they have reached retirement age. Alex is playing a blinder by retiring from the front of the team as it was being touted by our opponents that it was one man’s dream and that he was a dictator. It also cannot be only Nicola Sturgeon at the front the next time as she will be seen as Alex’s Stooge.
We need 4 or 5 heavy hitters to lead this time. I’m afraid Tommy Sheridan – who needs to keep doing what he is good at as should Denis Cannavan and Jim Sillars – is too divisive – so we should add in maybe Robin McAlpine, Patrick Harvie, Angus Robertson plus a strong businessman.
“I am Salmond” and a 45er.
That warmonger Straw is calling for laws to stop independence for Scotland. I’m a 50+ old wifey and let them bloody try it…
link to twitter.com
Nicola Sturgeon tweeted, 3 hrs ago:
‘More than 4000 people have joined @theSNP in last 36 hours. Many from Labour, many new to politics. Be part of it – //my.snp.org/join ‘
I’m sure that number will have increased by now. 😉
Let’s face it, we would never have had a referendum without them, so let’s give Slab the reaction they deserve for their lying to the Scottish people, and get behind SNP, for Scotland.
@Davy
Yes, it is probably down to people signing up to join the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon, in a Tweet, said more than 4000 people have joined in the last 36 hours or so. I would imagine the SNP’s website will be back up and running shortly.
I know people are understandable disappointed. However, there are people who are clearly coming on to this site to try and demoralise independence supporters. Do not give them what they want. They want people to give up. We have to develop a way forward collectively, a plan of action. It is significant that they are doing it even after we failed to get over 50 per cent on Thursday.
Get the message out – YES is alive and kicking.
INDEPENDENCE IS OUR GOAL.
SUGGESTIONS for things to do.
1. Stay together. Unity in diversity – it works.
2. join the SNP – make a million strong party. Make the SNP a gathering place for everyone – even though you may not share all SNP ideas. Never leave Wings over Scotland.
3.put your yes badges back on
4.put a yes sticker or poster back on your car
5. same in a window in your home.
6. cancel your bbc licence direct debit – the bank will notify the bbc RIGHT AWAY,
and you will then get an email from them
7.fly a small Saltire in your garden
8. wean yourself OFF dependency on TV & Newspapers – switch to foreign, english speaking, channels.
9.Your MP does NOT REPRESENT YOU – except in theory.
MP’s work for big business while living off the taxpayer.
Keep your MP’s email address handy,+ Twitter a/c and Facebook.
Ask your MP for regular updates on the implementation of the VOWS.
10.Light a candle for Independence.
Now choose from the above what you’re comfortable with
or add to this list something of your own
and DO IT.
This is a bit long, sorry, I need to get this out of my head.
****
Brothers and Sisters
They’ve done the laughing, they argued with us, we’ve had a bit of the fighting, taken a kick or 2 … . We haven’t got to the point where we win just yet. That’s where we are.
2.5 years ago a few thousand of us began to build something. By Thur 18th, its hard to know exactly but I think we’d be fair to suggest we had 100+ thousand activists on the case. All people who got off their butts and did something, often loads of things, to support the cause. And we’d rally 45% of the country to Yes. I’m really struggling to describe that as anything other than an incredible degree of success over that time period.
We’ve sent WM into the most incredible panic, forced them to become blatant liars in the space of a few hours (won’t be lost on others on the UK), awoken the English constitutional giant (long overdue), torn SLAB in 2 (who’d want to be a Glas SLAB trougher bidding for trough-continuation in 2015/16?) and brought Scotland to the top of the world agenda.
We didnae take the jackpot on Fri morning, but that’s a glass near half full. Empty it is not – though that’s hard to see at the minute for sure. If anyone had suggested to you that we could have achieved what we have done over these last 30 months 4 or 5 years ago, chances are many of you reading this would have been the ones laughing at the idea. If so, you’re wiser now – and a valued one of us.
My tears have flowed as yours in these last couple of days, but by God what have we achieved in so short a time? 30 months is nothing, this has been going on for 307 years and in those 30 months we have achieved so much more than ever before. We almost made it during the first real chance we’ve ever had. And despite the full force of the WM machine.
Many of those activists have rallied in the latter days of the campaign, many only joined as they began to realise that we and this was for real and just maybe we could. Now they know we can and will not turn away.
Many of us have had to learn from a position of knowing nothing about politics and campaigns. We are now trained and blooded. Our numbers hold expertise in every aspect of everything relevant, we educate and support each other. We are legion and of well over critical mass. 2.5 years ago we were no such thing.
And this legion is the future. Our greatest achievement of all. They will do everything they can to divide us, to weaken us, for that is their way. Trying to palm groups off here and there with wee bitty bribes of nothing much. Alas for them, we are legion – and our friends and colleagues will point out what they are up to to those who may not initially spot the trap(s).
We nurse our wounds, our hurt, for the next few days and then we begin to regroup. Even if the Broon’s timetable fiasco was not a deciding factor for many of the 55, as the lies become clear for what they are, they will further undermine the legitimacy of the WM elite in the minds of the 55. As the Osborne and then possibly (but I suspect not) Balls cuts bite deeper still,”Better Together” hollows itself out further. These and many other specifics of the elite undermine themselves and their case. We need simply to quietly and continually make the case for the truth and expose what is happening to our friends and neighbours. And to teach them, as we have taught each other, how to discern the truth from WM mist themselves. The stench of corruption from that place aids us greatly and isn’t going to change. And so gradually and steadily we win over and erode the 55. Less “in your face” perhaps than in recent weeks, but the quest and its core methodology does not change.
And we think carefully on how to vote in 2015 and 2016.
In 2015 we vote tactically for which ever pro-Indy candidate has the most realistic chance of displacing a trougher. With SLAB split and seriously damaged our prospects of removing a good few of the worst troughers must be good. Unlikely but that may result in a 2015 Tory win, but so what – who believes Balls is going to be any better, same core thinking and policies drapped in socialist clothing at best. It will be hard for some of us to give votes to the SNP (they are the most likely to take out troughers in many seats), but this isn’t about parties and specific policies – this is about shaping the battlefield for Indy Round 2 by diminishing our main adversaries. Besides, our WM MPs serve little real purpose as we’ll get whatever England and the SE mainly want either way. UK LDs I feel haven’t come out this the worst, they’ve wanted Federalism forever, but they’re probably mince UK-wide in any case on account of their coalition role, tuition fees and the like.
We cannot be prevented from sending another mandate to Holyrood. We should vote tactically to ensure that. Only we have PR here and so we will get to vote for the Greens and other pro-Indy parties in our second and third votes as well as for the SNP who we can guarantee will carry the mandate. We give none of the WM parties any of our PR votes – deplete their list MSPs and maximise the chances of getting any and all pro-indys in there even if many have little chance of winning a constituency seat anywhere. Let’s see the colour of SSP back in there (I’ve never voted SSP, that’s not the point – it’s about all Indy voices).
Round 2 is coming. And we begin round 2 with the biggest coherent force not simply in Scotland but in UK politics. With our adversaries in disarray merrily undermining themselves day after day, that’s not the worst place to be.
Alex knows and sees all this and more. I reckon he’s stepped aside to focus 100% on strategy for round 2 and to place the most popular politician in Scotland and the UK in pole position to take the prize in round 2.
The Times on Saturday is front-paged with a sad looking Alex and a caption saying the dream is over. Let them think that. Let them believe they can pacify and split and divide us away into a sad forgotten nothing. The only dream that is over is theirs – their dream that we’re a minor fly in their ointment, that we’ll forget and go away and it’s business as usual for them. They may think it’s business as usual for them, but we’re only beginning to come into our own and they have no idea what we are becoming.
Johann was half right – we might not be nationlists in her pejorative sense, we never were, but we are a virus. One for which she and WM has no possible cure.
There is no question as to why we do this.
Right now my 16 month old daughter is watching me type, wondering what I’m doing and making little talking sounds. If you’re already old, stay with us a few more years yet, we desperately want you to see the day – for so many over the centuries have not.
We are the Yes generation, a generation only now coming into her own.
The cub growled on the 18th.
Soon enough she will roar.
You can blow out a candle
But you can’t blow out a fire
Once the flames begin to catch
The wind will blow it higher
Peter Gabriel – Biko
Nana Smith
here’s a few, a stitch in time saves nine.
nip it in the bud.
prevention is better than cure.
we are a dynamic movement of free thinkers and democrats, who know what needs to be done.
@fred blogger
Good to see we are still here and kicking back!
Tony, you called me out as an ignorant 16 year old catholic supporter of Dublin?…
Where you dreamed that fabrication up is anyone’s guess?. possibly something out of the Loyalist bag of deluded, ill fitting fancy dress for overweight, pseudo military Union Flag waving and sash wearing fantasists for all I know.
For the record, I am 47, a former Soldier from rural Aberdeenshire and currently working in a community role.
You clearly have a strong belief in Loyalism. Well, whether it be loyalism or Republicanism, I have no time for either. I have seen, felt and smelled the pitiful reality of that loud, messy, stinking, vivid technicolour tragedy and it has no place in this Country (that’s Scotland, not the UK which in fact is a State).
We had a small lightweight sample of that last night though didn’t we? Union flag draped, Nazi saluting morons singing about rather being a “paki than a pape”. Hope you are proud of your boys.
“One Queen, one country, one flag”? That has the stench of “Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer about it”.
Oh, and you bleed red blue and white? What a load of jingoistic crap.
Now do fuck off you cretin.
Bob Sinclair
“With all due respect, if you have nothing useful to say then just say nothing.”
Right back at you with that Bob.
George is obviously a young guy who cares enough to come here and post. Chances are he won’t come back after your ill mannered condescension.
Not all conspiracy theories are groundless. Point is you don’t know, yet you see fit to put this young guy down, and belittle him for his ideas and his punctuation. You think that’s useful?
Just off to post an application and cheque to join the SNP – it’s time!
Nana Smith
no time like the present, eh! 🙂
How about ‘Next Time’ as a slogan for going forward ?
The candle was carried by the SNP and ones like myself for decades.
The Torch is lit and is being carried by tens of thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands.
It will arrive and light up the whole of Scotland.
The candle was carried by the SNP and ones like myself for decades.
The Torch is lit and is being carried by tens of thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands.
It will arrive and light up the whole of Scotland.
Mmm, how about “The Independence Torch”?
scotspine says:
Tony, you called me out as an ignorant 16 year old catholic supporter of Dublin?…
—
Nospine,
Look, I’m not religious and I’m not sectarian. I do however realise that in Scotland we have one group that whilst they me be undesirable, are at least loyal and only behave in the manner that they do because there seems to be a foreign import in Scotland of a people that do not care much about Scotland/UK and whose loyalties lie in Ireland.
Why are these so-called ‘Scots’ living here and voting in such an important referendum, when they fly the Irish flag and not the Scottish one?
Why do Celtic supporters fly more Irish and palestinian flags than they do Scottish flags?
This is who makes up your core support. You are using their bigotry to boost your Yes votes – but they aren’t voting on Scotland as a viable independent country, they’re voting to shaft the English over Northern Ireland.
I don’t want twats like that deciding the future of a nation.
I am patriotic, but will never be a nationalist.
Nationalism is awful and the idea of leftists like you lot being in favour of such a divisive, insular and inevitably bigoted movement, is astounding.
Just as astounding as the Green party being behind a Yes vote when it was predicated on an Oil-based economy and more drilling.
The axis of the Yes vote is morally bankrupt and you’ll never triumph here.
Sling your hook.
It’s great that everybody is up off the floor and thinking about the next leg.
We don’t need all the answers this weekend. We DO need to get agreements on plans and process fairly soon.
We need to be cool and focussed, get the emotions under control so we can get things done.
Some key priorities to keep in mind for me:
We lost a democratic vote – get over it. Not ALL noes are the enemy. We need to win 200,000 to our view. The leaders of the NO side have left themselves open to breach of trust in a number of areas.
We need to keep discipline and cooperation. This will not be won by one party – it’s too important to allow for us shooting off on personal crusades. Cooperate, and target “soft” seats with one pro-yes candidate.
By their own words the No campaign has insisted “we can be better together” within an “improved” union- so make them deliver or choke on their words. There are things worth campaigning for as single issues, eg, No Trident replacement, PR voting, Lords reform/abolition, end the bedroom tax, no TTIP, etc.. It’s also worth raising the Liberal Home Rule bill passed in 1913, and confronting the Labour party with its devo-nano scheme, Libdems with their century of failure.
DON’T GET INVOLVED IN FLAMING MATCHES WITH TROLLS. DON’T MAKE THOUGHTLESS REMARKS ABOUT VIOLENCE IN YOUR FRUSTRATION. Sorry for shouting. Leave that crap to the BNP, OO, SDL, etc.
We did almost everything right – let’s do it some more and better.
WINGS keep your online going strong, and even start a News radio station online.
Scotland needs reliable impartial unbiased news outlets, and we’re not getting it. Scotland needs this before next elections. Even consider using ethical advertising to fund stations!
We are the 45, need someone with the brain of a planet to take control and cobble a new pop-up SINGLE political party, which the 1.6million YES can join and vote for in next elections, and demolish all UK parties in Scotland.
At the moment we are multiple parties, which is great for UK Union’s divide and rule techniques.
[…] Pwy sy am edrych ar gart?n gwych, a’r tristaf erioed […]
THIS from Craig Murray: “Anyway the dress rehearsal is over. At the next referendum – which is only five years away, after the UK has voted to leave the EU – we will not be putting forward Salmond’s Independence Lite, (I am not criticising, he carried it superhumanly far). We will be proposing a fully independent Scottish Republic, out of NATO, with its own currency, sweeping land reform to give Scotland’s land back to its people, nationalisation of railways and public utilities, a genuine minimum wage you can live on, a humane benefits system and strict regulation and controls on banks and bankers.”
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Couldn’t post this earlier, site is obviously busy.
Derek Bateman has indicated in his recent blog post that he is not going away and is redoubling his efforts through a new combined broadcast and print initiative for which he is working on a business plan. This is exactly the type of initiative required and hopefully others can contribute to it and back it with support and finance.
A number of indy websites are thinking along similar lines, but we need one co-ordinated media effort to provide a viable set-up rather than a number of initiatives that are all looking for funding. Co-operation and using the expertise and talent available in the Yes family has to be the way forward otherwise we dissipate the effect.
Jim MacIntosh says
“If someone got car window stickers with ‘If at first you don’t secede, try and try again” I’d buy one. Be brill to see one on every other car in Scotland.”
Well let me tell you a story,
I was over in Edinburgh today with the wife for a wee walk in the Botanic gardens, and an enjoyable day it was too but I couldnt get Christian Wrights quote out of my head so I went up Leith looking for a pronters that could make it up, and I went in to an Asian shop half way up and asked the man if he did car sticker printing,
And while he was answering me in the negative, his eyes fell on my yes badge and his hands fell to his sides and he stopped talking, I asked him if there was a problem, he responded with silence and proceeded to come round his counter to face me, I thought oh oh this does not look good,
At which point he threw his arms around me with tears in his eyes and said “I’m a yesser too” its all over ,its all over.
I said its not over, believe me its not over, we’re not going anywhere.
The smile that spread over his face left me feeling a sense of responsibilty far beyond reason,(Im just a man looking for a car sticker for gods sake) I left that shop with a renewed sense of purpose.
That’s a really bad idea. Huge numbers of voters would be turned off by it.
I meant Craig Murray’s proposal. Sorry, server very slow today.
MJS Dundee says:
20 September, 2014 at 4:00 pmThis is a bit long, sorry, I need to get this out of my head
More of this please – well said
Dear 55%. You’ve been conned. Broken promises await you and over the coming years you will realise just what you’ve done.
The totally corrupt alliance between W/M; the City of London money men and the Press will trod all over you. We have come to expect this from the Tories. But the Labour Party, particularly the Scottish branch and it’s supporters, should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves siding with the capitalist machine. Be aware……you will never be forgiven and will pay the ultimate price
What a wasted opportunity to re-draw the democratic landscape in Scotland. But fear not 45%, we will rise again. My first active involvement in politics was to help elect Winnie Ewing in Hamilton all those years ago. Since then we have had ups and downs. Every surge in support for Independence has always been greater than the last. With patience and hard work we will make it next time.
We were within touching distance this time and I’m sure our time will surely come.
For the time being, let’s make all those who betrayed us squirm and suffer. We must remind them at every opportunity…..when the next budget cut is announced, when the next foreign invasion on US coat-tails is announced, when replacement Trident warheads are ordered, when our NHS is savaged…..and above all when they cut our Barnett grant and expect us to raise taxes to keep free prescriptions, bus passes, care for the elderly, tuition fees……we will stick their NO right up them.
Ananurhing
Amazing what you can deduce from a post by someone who doesn’t mention their age.
Your opinion of what I can and what I can’t say is just that, an opinion.
All I will say is that yhere are many people on here whose opinion I would trust and respect. Guess what – you are not one of them. If I have offended anyone else I apologise but I will make an exception for you.
Ananurhing
Amazing what you can deduce from a post by someone who doesn’t mention their age.
Your opinion of what I can and what I can’t say is just that, an opinion.
All I will say is that yhere are many people on here whose opinion I would trust and respect. Guess what – you are not one of them. If I have offended anyone else I apologise but I will make an exception for you.
Boys put the handbags down.
Well I guess the BBCS News have been shamed into reporting on George Square last night, finally.
We do need to enter the media domain, but the trouble with a newspaper is unless you can either demonstrate a business case that bucks the industry trends or find a lucrative backer irrespectively that it could be hard to get going, although I do realise we have a lot of talented people so I guess anything is possible.
It would be best if we could have a co-ordination group, the movement needs to stay under a single umbrella.
Paula Rose, as someone who’s opinion I trust, consider my handbag put away.
I suspect it won’t be long until we see another flicker on this candle.
Here’s the way this could play play out with Wee Eck working an (unintentional) Ali style rope a dope trick.
It is not unlikely that he will be back next May to lead a group of 20-30 SNP MP’s in Westminster. I can see Wee Eck relishing the though of causing havoc in Castle Grayskull, with Nicola Sturgeon holding the Holyrood fort as party leader.
The SNP will now focus all their efforts on the 2015 election. With 45% of the Scottish electorate now identifying themselves with the nationalist movement, there is likely to be a significant swing to the SNP in 8 months time. In 2010 Labour took 42% of the Scottish vote to return 41 MPs. The SNP’s 19.9% share in 2010, could easily increase to 30%+ next spring.
The SNP website is having problems today due to the number of people trying to join up – the servers for http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk, are coping just fine.
Ed Miliband needn’t worry too much about his block of 40+ Scottish MPs being cup-tied due to the West Lothian question – he won’t have them. Ed can hire a people carrier for his Scottish MP’s trips down south instead of expensive last minute train tickets for his English troops next unplanned day trip to Scotland.
Wee Eck will be in his element running rings round whatever middle management Tweedle Dums and Dees are in place attempting to cobble together a working majority next May. The villagers of Westminster might even be prepared to offer Scotland a share of English shale revenues to get rid of us when the he uses his 20+ MP’s, to run amok in a constitutional mess of a Parliament that might also have some UKIP’ers thrown in to the mix.
My bet is on Home Rule – most powers without defence and foreign policy- within 5-10 years. Next stop full independence.
So heads up troops. Looks like Wee Eck maybe had a Plan B all along.
Hi Friends,
Refocussed myself. Placed an order for a Gordon Setter bitch puppy today, choice of six. She shall grow up as I go into my 7th decade. Hopefully I shall show her.
Next weekend I am off to South Wales with an English friend.
On my return I shall see what possible paths are to be trod for IndieRef2.
The UK is in serious difficulties politically, economically and constitutionally.
The Yes voters have been personally hurt and angered. Lets see what comes of the SNP annual conference in November.
Rev Stu has my private email and so has Ian Brotherhood. We can all keep in touch and salvage our dream.
Hi, Hope this post comes through being having difficulties all afternoon.
Is it just me, but I think that the postal vote system should be looked at as a priority. I know Big Broon changed it to what it is now, but Labour have form with the postal votes.
They should only be given to the elderly and infirm, sick or people who are handicapped in some way from attending the polling station. Handfulls of these forms should never ever be given out or collected by anyone with connections to a political party. There is a serious problem with this system. To easy to pochle. Any thoughts?
Just had a wee idea, how about a poster of Chris’s candle with the inclusion of james 123’s wee Hamish with the match. I would buy one. Cheered me up no end.
Ananurhing says:
This crap from Broon is meaningless self indulgent pap. He has no power.
He’s turning this into a vehicle for his comeback.
Spot on my friend, spot on!
GE 2010 turnout in dependent district formerly known as country of Scotland = 2.4M,
1.6M / 2.4M = 75% …. Is target of returning 59 SNP MPs next May too optimistic?
@K1
I was helping at a stall here in Dundee when one of the others said he knew an old guy who had put in his postal vote for No and was already regretting it. This was two weeks before the vote.
Bob Sinclair
My sincerest apologies if I’ve offended you Bob. We’re all a bit rattled after Thursday, and perhaps I was a bit over sensitive/protective.
I’ve had to deal with too many young people in tears these last 2 days, seeing their hopes dashed, and their empowerment rendered impotent. They’ve been so impressive in their zeal, their numbers, and their determination to build something new. I see it as my job to try to instill in them the idea that this is unfinished business, that their efforts have meant something, and will do again.
I know you are a father and will know where I’m coming from. A spark ignited something powerful in our young people these last few months. We need them to be on fire again in the future.
Personally, I’m saddened by the whole mess. just over half of Scotland voted no believing that important extended powers would be given to the Scottish parliament but I have my doubts about when they’ll be impemented to be honest. If Scotland has to wait while the tories, labour and ukip sort out what’s right for England first or “parallell” to the changes for Scotland they’ll be waiting for ever! I hope that ultimately Scotland will turn that no vote into not yet but heaven help westminster if they have lied or play fast and loose with those promises. And if the sad scene of rioting in Glasgow is any show of how some of those unionists behave, then I can only imagine they would be happy to turn Scotland into another version of Northern Ireland in its troubles! I’m English by birth, Scots, Welsh and English by family and happy to be so, I have to say though, already down here we have people saying Scotland should shut up and accept what Westminster gives them if they’re lucky! Please Scotland, don’t shut up, don’t put up with lies and soon to be broken promises, never give up!
Tartan tony As you see my name is James Dow what’s yours?
I actually don’t know any Scot’s called Tony so your last name could be interesting, come out Tony, be a man be proud of your last name even if it isn’t Scottish as I suspect.
James Caithness Thank you James, I am not patronising you when I say I have enjoyed your contributions along the way , well done. The mere fact we have raised the spectre of a Scottish, Russian friendship pact would already have sent a chill into the heart’s of our enemy, it is not something they would have expected. For they instinctively project the scenario and it’s consequences for them, something beyond their control, and they don’t like that.
Scot’s would have to wash away decades of contrived, prejudicial propaganda from the British state for they always require an enemy real or imagined.
What I projected is entirely logical and effective for it would focus the worlds attention for Scotland’s position making it more difficult for England to operate in the dark. which is their natural environment.
On the populous side I find it difficult to call them collectively Scot’s for there are many that I find difficult to describe as Scot’s. I returned to Scotland as a visiting piper to play in the 2005 Tattoo, I was devastated by the change in the Scottish psyche the magic had diminished, and Scotland had become more Anglicised and less distinctive, heartbreaking. A few told me that I was more Scottish than themselves. I was just me, they had become less Scottish than they should have been.
I may be a long way away but I can promise the British state they have just engaged one of their worst fears ME. Stay tuned James you will see what I mean all will be revealed.
Bob Sinclair Just when did you get the authority to speak or pass opinion on behalf of the winger fraternity. You should applaud and support George communicating in the first place, and you definitely do not speak for me,
The candle still burns
I cried on Thursday – for the first time in years,
I unfolded the paper and read.
‘Do you believe that Scotland should be an independent Country?’
I blinked the tears from my eyes
I took the wax pencil and placed a firm cross against YES
I have waited all my life for this
Thank you Alex Salmond and all those who gave me this chance
I cried on Friday
It was like a death in the family
The dream is dead
I drove into the town
A passer-by, seeing the small saltire still flying on my car, smiled wanly and waved
I wiped my eyes and waved back
I smiled on Saturday
I went to meet my son
Dear Edina, once capital of this Nation
We talked into the night
We smiled, the young are strong
The candle still burns!
“I bleed red, white and blue.”
Which, when you mix it all together, is brown.
Much like your post, the colour of shite.
I would also suggest if you have blood in those colours you don’t need to be on here, you need to be in a hospital.
Wept, drank a bit, wept. Slept. Fewer tears the next day because energised and ready to stand up and dust myself down.
Onwards! We have WORK to do! The movement is already up and moving. So far, apparently a quarter of the No vote are having buyer’s remorse, particularly since – of course – Westminster hasn’t even bothered to write a schedule or the white paper they promised.
International press heaving with reports of the shameless, two-faced behaviour of Westminster and their shoddy tactics.
That wasn’t the final battle. That was a skirmish.
@Robert Louis – “… He is not a grand master black belt politican for nothing.”
You’re dead right. He’s got a brain the size of a planet, our Alex, and he runs rings round any other political types, especially in Westminster. One of the finest, he is.
Kid Spotlight reply It is compulsory to vote in Australia, and yes you do get fined if you do not comply.
It represents being engaged in the affairs of your nation and at least motivated to consider consequences even if you are pushed along a bit. Who knows you might get to like it. I would recommend the same system for Scotland.
It is not too much to ask considering how infrequent elections are. You can even still go to the pup or football on the same day.
OWN GOAL
The modern Scot has little to cheer
Comatose, tranquilised with football and beer
James Dow