The Brave New World
We were sent something disturbing recently. It’s from a training course civil servants are being sent on by the Scottish Government.
As you can see, one of the sites that staff are directed to is something called The Trans Language Primer. We thought you should see some of its content.
(This is Jonah, btw. He/xim/thxy/q*e?m works for you.)
[EDIT 1 July: This article has caused quite a panic. The @MxComan Twitter account has been deleted, the “Boris Gay” one has been locked, the tweet above has been deleted and its author has demanded we remove it, citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a US law with no jurisdiction in the UK.]
Now on with the show.
Brace yourselves, gang, there’s a-gonna be some triggerin’. Let’s open with a doozy.
Remember: your taxes are paying for this.
Apparently “Gender Critical” is now a “complicated, problematic or inaccurate” term.
You know how you thought men and women had unique biological attributes that made them different from each other? The Scottish Government wants its staff to know that this is an “outdated understanding of sex”.
“True Trans” is an offensive term (hence the quotemarks), but oddly calling people you don’t like “Truscum” is fine. We hope you’re taking notes, there’ll be a test later.
As far as we can tell, pretty much everyone is gay by this definition.
Scottish Government policy, readers. You remember it from the SNP manifesto, right?
Saying someone is on fire is bigoted now. You have to say “flame-gifted”.
This is the entire W section. There is no entry for “woman”.
There’s one for “trans woman”, of course, but it defines it in terms of a woman, which isn’t defined, so there’s no way of knowing what they actually mean by it.
“This term is intentionally hard to define.”
We’ve read this one through quite a few times now, folks, and to be absolutely honest with you we’ve got nothing.
We think this means “normal”.
Wait, “HIS partner”? This sounds like some pretty enbyphobic misgendering to us.
OMG WTF LOL.
Coming to a roadsign near you soon. (If you know anywhere offering classes in Queer Sign Language, please let us know. We will seriously pay you to go on one.)
Congratulations if you’re still with us at this point.
Gordon Ramsay: relatively masculine.
This is how fundamentalist Christians talk about evolution.
Check your blanket privilege, readers. And throw out all your jeans unless you have explicit permission from German Jewish Americans to wear them.
You know, like how “bicycle” means “vehicle with any number of wheels over 1”.
Translation: “A man who thinks he’s a woman but who everyone knows is a man.”
Since you’re probably developing the oppressed form of neurodivergence known as “loony fatigue” at this point, we’ll wrap it up. In order to avoid mandatory removal to a Scottish Government re-education facility in the near future we urge you to study the Trans Language Primer for yourself and pick out a few of your own favourites, but we’ll take just one more.
So, to recap: the Scottish Government is using your money to indoctrinate anyone who works for it into the belief that biological sex – the thing which is responsible for every single human on Earth being alive – is a falsehood created by the medical establishment to oppressively reinforce white supremacy and unfairly exclude men from women’s sports.
We’ll tell you the truth, chums, there are times these days when we’re really struggling to remember why we wanted independence. But we’re pretty sure it wasn’t for this.
Someone has gone to a lot of trouble to define things that are patently untrue. What we need is an independent Scotland that will be wealthier without a redistribution of tax revenue from the UK and a hard border with its major trading partner.
Stuart, do you know if Sturgeon is the one pushing this?
Or has she just become so pathetically corrupt, compromised and weak that other people can push whatever extremist garbage they want and she can’t/won’t to do anything about it?
Or does she just not even care anymore?
I recently briefly discussed the trans issue with a couple of members of my family – in the context of Sharon Davies pushing back against blokes competing in women’s sport. It was all dismissed with laughter as nonsense (the notion that a man can become a woman – the opposite, it was noted, is not an issue in sport) because it obviously is.
Every man and his dog knows basic fucking reality and biology so this really is 2+2=5 stuff.
I’ve just skimmed it but I think its training which is breaking the law .. not only the Equality Act 2010 but Forstater case.
And this folks is why Nicola Sturgeon has chosen a general plebiscite election with a majority of the PEOPLE voting instead of a majority of MEMBERS elected to decide on independence. Yes, because you will be voting for her together with all of this madness together with sheer incompetence.
What a load of complete and utter sh*te. I do laugh at the “assigned at birth” stuff though. You can just imagine the midwife saying, “Hang on, make this one a girl – there’s been enough boys born today…”
Fkin delusional nonsense. What next – I’m a transistor radio and my pronouns are AM/FM?
This is what I feared. The inner gazing and word creation by some individuals to subvert any lossibity of a functioning Scottish Civil service. With all this folk who work there will be watching all letters of the alphabet in case they get it wrong.
What’s the way out of this Stewart.
Omg. I’m actually pissing myself laughing here.
Enbian. Dyadic. Perisex. Wtaf.
I’ve always thought my partner Mike is a bit of a stud. Having a giggle at what the wokeys have hijacked it to mean. And, ‘feck off ya quiltbag’….what can you say?!
Nir/ne/na/noo this is bonkers. This is actual total crap and those of us working in the NHS or for Scot Gov are actually being singled out here for not conforming and supporting this shite.
For not wearing a rainbow badge.
For not skipping across rainbow painted lines in hospitals like arse-holes.
There is something very sinister about all the flag-flying and brainwashing going on here. Mr Fox has a valid point.
Place yer bets on which MSP will be the first to state “FART” during a speech in oor parliament…
Terrified children don’t drink enough water because they are scared to go to the toilet. Young adults don’t have enough money to eat, and their older relatives are wary of putting the heating on when it gets a bit chilly.
But, there’s money to waste on this?
Apparently it’s impossible to ascertain someone’s gender without asking them what their gender is. So, to establish whether you’re attracted to someone’s gender, you have to go round asking everyone what their gender is just in case they might have a gender you’re attracted to. Surely nightclubs suffered enough from the COVID lockdowns!
The most disturbing thing about this is that it’s yet another step towards totalitarianism.
Utter nonsense the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
This stuff needs to be halted..
I am in the process of closing my accounts at Halifax as they now embrace this madness issuing staff name tags with pronouns.
When challenged they replied if you don’t like it you can close your account.
Right I will so will other sane folk.
Birth stealth: It rubs the lotion on its skin.
I have read the above and concluded that the world is flat, the moon is made of green cheese, the SNP is a splendid organisation and I, after much consideration, am a fish.
It all makes perfect sense to me now!
Another thing to put on Nicola Sturgeons progressive CV when she looks for another job, all paid by our taxpayers money.
Bonkers – utterly. Making the loony left look mild. And what a waste of my taxes. Worrying that those in power, who gave this organisation money, may soon be negotiating Scotland’s divorce from the union. Fuck.
The worry is, looking a bit further down the road, in view of the recent court appeal in america re Abortions, that the issue is a devolved one in Scotland. I would not trust the fingertip feminist in any way on this issue.
I do hope Alba publishes a very public declaration (if it goes to Plebicite GE) that every one of their candidates is standing for Indy – and ensures that the SNP don’t make it all about them. In fact every candidate should publically sign it. I’ll put money on now that the SNP will do everything they can to try and limit the franchise so they gatekeep the principle.
Laughing out loud at this. It’s like watching the Eurovision Song Contest with commentary by Terry Wogan/Graham Norton.
I’d put money on the words “Some people believe…” having not been uttered at any poing during this training session despite there being zero evidence that gender identity exists and despite ‘lack of belief’ being protected with regard to religious and other philosophical beliefs by the UK Equality Act and Human Rights Act.
So much for Scotland being a secular democracy. We aren’t stepping towards totalitarianism, we’re already there.
I await with interest the ruling for Allison Bailey’s employment tribunal claim against her legal chambers and Stonewall.
Allison Bailey statement(14 APR 22),p.55:
“Gender identity theory is a belief set. I do not hold those beliefs,& in common with any other belief set, nobody is compelled to hold those beliefs& everybody is free to reject them & to express that rejection.”
Source: link to allisonbailey.co.uk
OMG. So glad you are still campaigning. Will you comment on her/she 3 step pla or will you at least consider generating a betting book on it. As a fund raiser for WoS. Thanks
Space Cadets where’s the category for Space Cadets ?
Cause thats how we can easily define the whole fecken lot of them
Am I correct in thinking that if we don’t get a referendum on 19/10/23 and so go onto a plebiscite election in 2024 where we are required to get over 50% of votes in an FPTP election we are totally and utterly up shit creek with no canoe?
I’m currently at a loss as to how we can possibly create any positive momentum with the lunatics running our side of the show.
My only other question is, is this deliberate?
Your own transition from daily to sporadic posts has screwed up your calendrical sense. This is NOT April 1
Even so, hats off to you for brilliant parody. I claim my £5.
This type of stuff is absolute insanity.and it makes one’s blood boil to think that good money is being spent on producing this crap.
We have better things to do with our money than this.
Fucking foodbanks multiplying daily , people having to choose heating or eating and these fucking imbeciles are spending OUR HARD EARNED MONEY, OUR TAXES on this lunacy , and WE are expecting people to vote for indy so that these fuckwits can continue to drag us screaming down the yellow brick road
One thing that is now going to put me offf voting yes in a referendum is that India Willoughby has tweeted that HE will move to Scotland if we win a vote for independence
Bruce Jenner now Caitlin Jenner was on TV to say that it’s totally unfair for Trans to try and compete in woman’s sport.
If they go thru male puberty they have an in-built natural strength and physiology.
Their inclusion is to cheat women from winning and the joy of participating on an equal basis.
I presume these people expect to walk about shower rooms etc with penis on show but women and girls are not permitted to acknowledge it’s actually there or feel uncomfortable.
Born female trans just won’t be able to compete in mens sport and excel
but the other way round they can.
This means trans people are not equal to each other.
Sports such as in competitive swimming should propose they have male, female and trans events. If there are not enough trans people willing to enter the event isn’t viable due to lack of competition and no doubt lack of substantial numbers willing to pay to watch it.
Good luck to them and I’m polite to everyone I meet.
Happy to say Hi and not use him/her if I don’t know their gender but I’ll never accept male genitalia in a female changing room.
If a trans was arrested for exposing themselves in public would the police who seen their penis have to say they saw a vagina or that there was nothing on show so there is no arrest.
Yes like all of us they have laws to protect them from abuse or violence but they are not entitled to have the rest of the world dance on the end of their string.
PS That robe thing that was hand made, Don’t give up your day job.
So Nick what do we do to really screw up the independence movement?
I dunno BoJo I’m fresh out of ideas!
Hay Nick! What about you let the loonie tunes extremists in the feminist movement have their way, I mean really really let them go ape-shit! It’ll make Holyrood look like a complete clown show, and screw up the SNP and ensure any vote (like that’s ever going to happen haha!) will be easy to rig.
Great idea BoJo! I’m on it, keep my seat in the HOL warm for me.
Don’t worry Nicky baby it’s a slam dunk!
The Guy with his head in his hand is really saying to himself. WTF sort of job have I got myself into and holy fuckI hope this finishes soon !!
They’re making this up as they go along. Or if they aren’t, they’re giving that impression.
But there’s one way to settle this…
Where are the workings behind Sturgeon’s cunning plan? Are there any?
She surely had a serious squad of senior govt officials working on its development for some time. And she also made sure that work was kept secret. (Would it be unreasonable to suppose that they’ve been honing it since Brexit?)
Or did she just send Swinney to rifle the WOS archives for ‘that plebiscite idea’ to fling as a bone for the discontents to gnarl on while she and her cronies continue to develop the real plan i.e. the madness outlined in this post?
As has been predicted ….. the backlash against this poisonous ,insane IDEOLOGY -what else can it be called ? ( Idiotology is more accurate ,but barely does justice to the degree of TRULY misogynist wilful stupidity and irrationality that underlies this garbage ) has begun
If you think there is no connection between the increasing infiltration of GENDER IDEOLOGY into just about every sphere of public life and – for example – the overturning of the Roe v Wade ruling , think again .
These unhinged fanatics are opening the doors to their obverse – side equally fanatical Right Wing counterparts . Their mutual Authoritarian * mentality * will exact a terrible price on all of our freedoms and what were once considered the basics of Civil Society
It’s my judgement there will be no referendum or Pleb Election EVER under this fckn rotten-to-the-core regime , but imagine if there was ; imagine the Rainbow Coalition – the Jeremies , Bungles , Zippies , ” Intersectional ” Rod , Jane , Freddies etc – trying to defend this shit in debate or interview .
The adoption and promotion of GENDER IDEOLOGY by whatever that is masquerading as a Pro-Independence vehicle is a , to my mind , deliberate strategy to fuck-up any chance of Scotland regaining it’s status as an Independent Nation .
One of many such strategies , possibly the most deadly
Here’s a perception test.
Bobbi and Boaby. Which one is the girl, which one boy. And not to be confused what genders are Rod and Dick. Or what about Fanny.
These are very important questions. I mean we need to ensure that our penchant for using inappropriate names is ended forthwith. Our society demands it. Now you wouldn’t call a woman a dick. But you could call a man a fanny. This is profoundly unfair.
And what about these vicious nasty cartoon. I mean whoever called a man Bunny even if he was Bugs. Or what about his arch enemy Elmer Fudd. How can we have children watching bias like that. It’s pure Loony Tunes.
I hope my comments will be treated with the utmost gravity that they deserve. These are serious matters at the heart of our society. And my name, well there’s a problem with that because it’s Willie.
That’s all folks.
My god. Hey loonies in the Scottish government, I am gay, fought for gay rights, and I am GAY, homosexual, that is same SEX attracted. Lesbians are real, and are women who are attracted to women. Gender (whatever the feck that is) has zilch to do with it. And I know lots of gay folk (womend AND men), both young and old, who agree. Nobody asked us if we wanted all this trans and gender stuff. Nobody elects these clowns.
And just where do these clowns get off saying calling people SCUM is an acceptable term?????
And as for biological sex being something IMPOSED by the medical profession to ensure white supremacy – REALLY??? I mean, seriously, WTF????? QUOTE ” ..set by the medical establishment to reinforce white supremacy..” That is just madness personified. Every single cell in a women’s body is different to every single cell in a man’s body, that is why their are two sexes. It has got nothing whatsoever to do with ‘white supremacy’.
All of this, full of made up pretendy terminology, is quite honestly childish. It is full of hyperbole, hatred and quite frankly, the most absurd, absurd rubbish, as to beggar belief. Why any intelligent adult would engage with this nonsense, is beyond me.
Gay and Lesbian equality has SFA to do with gender, or being transgender.
The real problem here is the staff themselves in all organisations where this tripe is being forced down their throats. Where are the brave intelligent rebels? Why is no one telling them en masse to shove this shit? We’ve bred a generation not only that produces this self entitled cultish garbage but that’s too feart tae stand up to it. As Bill Maher said the other day, the young complain about boomers having all the jobs. Because employers don’t want to employ spoilt self-centred pronoun spouting brats. I’ve been an Indy supporter all my life but whenever the referendum takes place I don’t think I can vote yes if it risks Scotland being the most totalitarian woke state on earth.
Welcome to the Gender Woowoo Cult, civil servants!
If it wasn’t so frightening, it would be funny. The number of Newspeak words would probably impress and terrify Orwell in equal measure. And to suggest that Ray Blanchard’s clinical work in the 1990s was somehow unscientific, really takes the biscuit. I don’t agree with everything he says, but Blanchard’s typology is rigorous and stands up to scientific scrutiny.
Time for a few FoI requests to the Scottish Government about this and other ‘training’ materials and courses. I doubt very much that they train staff in anything to do with any of the protected characteristics under the Equality Act. If that’s not the case, they’re likely breaking the law, since the protected characteristics are all supposed to have parity of esteem under the law.
Funnily enough, while the Secret Indy Plan is being discussed, nobody is talking about the GRA evidence sessions going through Committee at the moment in Holyrood. Strange coincidence, eh?
Here’s another perception test.
Now that we have all recovered from the glorious Jubilee celebrations how many think it’s unfair to be castigating Prince Charles for being given around £2.8 million in high denomination Euro notes stuffed into Fortnum and Mason carrier bags.
I mean his aides counted it, and presumably with no customs on returning home he did the decent thing and got someone to deposit the cash in his Coutts bank account. All, all, all quite normal don’t you think.
Waltzing back into the country with carrier bags full of cash is normal isn’t it. It’s what royalty do all the time. One of the directors of Coutts was on the radio yesterday banging on about how they liked to support businesses who paid the real living wage. All very good, but even better when asked about if she thought it was right to be accepting millions of pounds of cash in carrier bags she responded to say that she couldn’t possibly comment about customers banking arrangements. And quite right too.
Prince Charles, like Prince Andrew are royalty. They are special people. Flying around the world, consorting with underage girls, children in fact, collecting big sums of money in bags, not being subject to the checks that everyone else has to, that is their entitlement, their right, and shame on any who try to call them out.
That’s all folks.
Here’s another perception test.
I know the trans issue thing is a key priority for our Scottish Government. I mean how can we live with ourselves if we don’t change our society to upturn our ways to placate the very very very important trans people.
With a need for a focus on trans can we not agree that Nicola Sturgeon has done really well not to intervene in the energy cost crisis that is now stalking our land. I mean whilst gas, oil and renewable energy corporates make absolute hay as prices soar, and people struggle to heat and light their homes, Nicola has absolutely not been distracted to intervene.
This I think is sound policy. A bit of fuel poverty, and in fact other poverties too, all very much subsidiary to Trans Rights. I am sure you will all agree.
But before I go can I let you into a secret. Bugs Bunny is a trans. And Sleeping Beauty is a half man but disney want to know.
That’s all folks – just keeping the lunars on the path. Normal service will be restored as soon as possible.
FFS and I used to think that “Customer First” was unncessary crap. Thank f**k I’m out of the workplace. I’d be out the door in seconds. Of all the daft religions in the world, this has to be the daftest. Can’t understand why people who claim to be atheist and who believe in evidence based facts fall for this stuff.
Unfortunately the Tories appear to be the ones not falling for this – coincidence????
Radio Scotland news this morning:
1st item – £65 million of Scottish Govt money to help Ukraine’s fight against Russia.
2nd item – increasing number of Scots cutting back on basics due to cost of living crisis.
You know, with the war which cannot be mentioned ongoing, so many sources shut down, and such a lot of propaganda to wade through, I find myself browsing in some strange places simply trying to get a handle on how the other side thinks.
I also know, throughout history, different sides in conflict have invented all kinds of derogatory smears and insults to de-humanise their enemy, pretty much so it’s easier to kill them and burn down their houses and temples.
Antisemitism is a prime example, where far right groups find common cause in a hatred which inflames their anger and numbs their compassion.
Right now, all over the world, your Muslims, your Russkis, and your Chineze, are all looking over to the West and watching this mind numbing insanity take root.
All this media, where grown men in drag are publicly exposing themselves to children in broad daylight, riding nude on bikes or parading in the street with sex toys and going out of their way to shock people with their deviancy… the other parts of the planet are now looking to “The West” as a centre of depravity, the 21st Century Sodom and Gomorrah, where hedonistic depravity is leaving nothing to the imagination and where no taboo is sacred. – And these were reserved countries who got upset about Coca-Cola FFS!
“ALL” Western people are being debased by this toxic mix of twisted evangelical depravity, mental illness, pedophilia, and sexual deviancy. Different cultures around the world are watching Western culture succumb to this rebellion against science, morality and reason, and they find it as scary as we do.
Every soldier dying in a trench under a blue and yellow flag isn’t a soldier in the eyes of his enemy, he is a deviant, a western gay boy or any one of a hundred other derogatory remarks inspired by these public exhibitions of Trans lunacy. “That” is what they’ve done to us.
“To see ourselves as other see us”, is not, I promise you, a comfortable or reassuring perspective at the moment.
If you think the US Army’s reputation in Vietnam suffered for it’s doped up soldiers and conscripted army which didn’t want to fight, then trust me, you really don’t want to know how Western arms dealers and mercenaries are currently being described in some parts.
The West doesn’t need its enemies to vilify our culture, dehumanise our people so we are more easily killed and our temples burned down, we are doing that job ourselves; whether it’s the murderous gun culture and racism of America, the sexual depravity of perverts breaking out all over, from scumbags to Royalty, the lying dishonesty of our media and their shit-stirring histrionics, the racism and bigotry of our Brexiteers and MAGA’s, and the laughable “integrity” of politicians like Boris Johnson or Rees Mogg, and the ubiquitous double standards they adopt while turning a blind eye to murderous injustice in places like Palestine. It’s a putrid festering swamp of rancid shittiness by anyone’s measure.
Redeeming qualities? Err,… em,…. eh,….give me a minute on that one…
When some Russki General next speculates that the UK could be wiped off the planet in a few seconds, it fills me with such sadness that he is probably closer to actually meaning it now than at any time during the decades of the Cold War.
He is very unlikely to do it, thank god, but as the saying goes, it’s the thought that counts.
That Trans people think they are facilitating greater tolerance and acceptance by all this, is perhaps the sickest joke of all. When sanity returns, as it will, the sum total of their achievement is going to make their own kind pariahs, and for a very long time.
[Chances of this comment making it through moderation filters? Small. 😉 Sorry in advance Rev Stu.]
Okay, my 8.20 comment went into moderation, so I’ll try again, with minor tweaks:
Radio Scotland news this morning:
1st item – £65 million of Scottish Govt money to help an unnameable country fight another unnameable country. (And, er, no, it’s not Scotland vs England)
2nd item – increasing number of Scots cutting back on basic foods due to cost of living crisis.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 June, 2022 at 7:10 am
They’re making this up as they go along…
100% True.
They are also fucking this up as they go along.
Also 100% true.
Good God. What gets me is that there are sensible, intelligent MP/MSP’s who have no doubt been sent to these courses and read the material, and…accepted it as the law.
Kate Forbes, a commited christian will have read this, squashed down her beliefs and accepted it.
Phillipa Whitford, an experienced and talented surgeon,who spent YEARS studying biology so she can do her job, read or heard this utter shite…and accepted it..!
The Muslim MP/MSP’s. ALL of this goes hard against their religion, NONE of them would accept a TW praying in the female section of a Mosque and yet…they accept it for the population.
How can we possibly trust these people from now on?
If they can be so easily manipulated whether through threats or because they don’t want to lose their cushy jobs – how on earth can we trust them with an iScotland?
WM must be looking at this (cos they read WoS) wide-eyed and amazed at how EASY it’s gonna be to infiltrate and manipulate a new independent Scots government to England’s will.
Is there nobody in Scotland with integrity? No one with a sense of right and wrong and how it affects millions of us?
I am in my 60’s and have worked in 6 different countries for extended periods and a good few others for weeks/months on a short term basis.
During that time I have never met or known any transgender people. I admit I have seen some dubious looking characters in the street but politely ignore. It may be that some individuals, choose to be ‘different’ in the confines of their own home and I do not have a problem with that.
I do not know and have no interest in what the various acronym’s stand for.
If any of my previous employers had requested that I undertake any ‘training’ as outlined in the article they would have been told, in no uncertain terms, to shove it.
It is galling to think that some of the taxes I pay is going to fund the ‘education’ of Civil Servants as instructed by the SNP/Loons Scottish Government.
It is the right in any democratic country for people to ‘have their say’ but when the very vocal minority try to usurp the mainly silent majority it is time to call a halt.
Welcome to Nicola’s vision of Scotland. Does she honestly think that this is a vote winner?
This is the old Zhao Gao “See deer, say ‘horse!'” routine – by this madness, Sturgeon and her mates can route out any civil servants who may potentially become whistleblowers, leaving behind only those who will never, ever disagree with anything the SNP doess in government.
Again, this was popular under New Labour in Mandelson’s time (“Reality is whatever we want it to be”), but they largely got away with it because they had the entire media in their back pocket – at least, until Iraq. They at least were a little more subtle in their loyalty tests, this is full blown totalitarianism.
David Lyon says on 29 June, 2022 at 11:09 pm:
“Stuart, do you know if Sturgeon is the one pushing this? Or has she just become so pathetically corrupt, compromised and weak that other people can push whatever extremist garbage they want and she can’t/won’t to do anything about it? Or does she just not even care anymore?”
I’d wager Sturgeon is 100% behind this, along with some others, including several of her minions at Westminster. And don’t forget ultra-creepy Alyn Smith & his partner, they will have a huge hand in all of this. If you’re looking for any individuals to pin this on my money would be on Sturgeon, Smith and their respective partners.
What i’d like to know is how much of a hand do Westminster have in pushing this, if any, and are Westminster civil servants being sent on the same/similar courses?
None of this freakery is anything to do with independence. That is *exactly* why ‘Skanky Sturgeon’ & Co are pushing this agenda right now, to ride on the wave of popular growing indy support. Because they could never get something like these issues through parliament under normal election mandate conditions.
Make no mistake, folks, this is one of those issues used to divide-and-rule and darken the idea of independence in this right-wing UK. I guarantee all government reps in liberal parts of the world, especially Europe, are either going through or have been through similar courses.
Great expose from WOS yet again. Stuart, once that best seller is complete, don’t you think it’s time you were back in the saddle? Please? Pretty please? Pretty please with a cherry on top? 🙂
Does anybody know if attendance at Trans101 is compulsory?
(Can’t believe I just typed Trans101)
Though I suspect – if it is – most civil servants don’t bother clicking on any of those followup links?
Let’s hope this reaches the wider public and why are the trans people all quite young – must be easily influenced by peer pressure. I sometimes wonder why the unionists do not make more of it?
Independence has been my whole adult life goal and all this stuff has the potential to derail it but it is not confined to Scotland, it’s widespread.
Should I let it influence my thinking on indy as the ANP might not be in government in an independent Scotland?
Error ay 9:18am: Last sentence SNP not ANP.
Effigy says:
30 June, 2022 at 5:35 am
Bruce Jenner now Caitlin Jenner was on TV to say that it’s totally unfair for Trans to try and compete in woman’s sport.
You know you’re getting old when you’re living in a world where Bruce Jenner changed into Caitlin Jenner rather than into the Incredible Hulk.
Seriously? Was this written by a 13 year old?
If the SC ruling is in favour of the referendum going ahead, you can be sure that the MSM will have an absolute field day with stuff like this. Can you imagine a TV debate with the Yes, or more accurately, SNP rep being asked to define what a woman is? It hardly bears thinking about, especially if it’s followed up with a question about why they’re wasting time and money pardoning witches.
How the fck have we ended up like this?
The appropriation of the terms gender and gay and their semantic reassignment, the sequestration of the natural phenomenon of the rainbow and its use to further a minority sexual «lifestyle», some of the mechanisms by which psychological disorder advances at the expense of rational and scientific norms.
Western civilization takes a knife to its own throat…..or gonads.
Those whom the gods would destroy they first «feminize».
Thanks for this Wings.
It’s a really interesting read and full of linguistic and ‘intellectual’ nonsense. Orwell realised, I think, that words have limitations and that finally they would all become meaningless if that’s the only thing we trusted.
‘In the beginning was the word’
I think James 6th’s Bible gave us a period where the world believed that the written word was God. We’ve now exhausted meaning and language and have to start paring back in order to go forward.
As for the ‘dictionary’ :
link to twitter.com
link to glasgowschoolofart.academia.edu
‘Queer Studies’
Clearly not his original name.
Jonah
I am minded of the essay ‘Inside the Whale’ where Orwell describes that place as ‘the final unsurpassable stage of irresponsibility.’ I don’t agree with the great man on this. But I understand what he is saying.
Coman
Clearly religious and Biblical. Our Jonah has obsessed about woman being born out of man in the Old Testament and man being born out of woman in the New Testament. Both ‘births’ claiming to be asexual. Forgetting of course that somewhere along the line the process was indeed binary.
Coman is essentially an imagist not a linguist.
His art work is all religious iconography.
He has been supervised by ‘Anna Fisk and Vicky Gunn
He has elements of the Blakean insanity about him.
NB. I’m a great lover of some of Blake’s work but he drives himself insane and is driven insane by his inability to communicate with the world he lives in. His Songs of Innocence and Experience are pure genius and totally intelligible and relevant.
Coman seems to me that he has skipped the ‘intelligible’ phase of his development and is deeply involved in the Blakean notion of:
“Thou art a man
God is no more
Thy own humanity
Learn to adore”
‘Know ye not that ye are Gods.
Humans are no longer subject to being described as belonging to the animal world – we are each a God in our own right and each of of us has the qualities and represents the God of all – ‘the one and the many’.
The Scots have aye been susceptible to religious freakery:
Buchanites
The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner’ by James Hogg providing us with the almost inevitable descent of man when he believes that he is ‘chosen’
Irvine in the 19th/20th century
James 6th book on Witchcraft
When people, essentially good, get lost, they go looking for the path of self-righteousness and it will lead to problems. In continually worrying about how well we’re behaving we tend to downgrade our opinions of others in order to keep our personal standing as high as possible. It will also lead to the ‘exclusion’ of people who threaten our self-belief.
I think Ms Sturgeon was well over-promoted, lost her way and is being led by people who think they have answers. The SNP is a collection of lost sheep who have herded themselves together.
The trans movement is, I think, a response to emotional inadequacy, stress and fear of failure. Given what’s controlling the world at the moment – that is hardly surprising.
@Dave Beveridge (9.23) –
Kin right they will.
Questions which will ‘trip up’ Sturgeon, Swinney, Wishart and anyone else appearing in debates from now until god-only-knows when:
‘What is a woman?”
‘What currency will you use?’
‘Will the Queen remain head of state?’
There must be others…
🙁
Dinosaurs didn’t exist.
Gender is a con.
Deviants run the show.
If ever we needed another Chicxulub impactor…..
@ Ian B
I’m guessing a new addition to that list could be “What ferries will you use?”…
Obviously what with being way ahead of the game in matters Trans, it matters not a jot to me, for I Self ID as species and object fluid, so can simply empower myself to be a dolphin or boat should the need arise to navigate waters.
Reckon I still have my wee red Scottish Swimmer badge in a drawer, and also taught whitewater kayaking and windsurfing back in the day so I’m totes sorted should the need to evacuate this fantasy island become a pressing issue.
There is no entry for “woman”
This must be a hate crime. It certainly feels like it to me.
My prediction is that the role of the ‘woman’ to be known as ‘womb havers’ in this new queer world is to be surrogates for trans mothers.
Abortion will be illegal and so will all forms of contraception for obvious reasons.
It feels like we are living in a science fiction novel.
I’m predicting that the next thing to go will be the contraceptive pill.
I can’t believe they actually used “folks” in the second image rather than “folx”.
Bigots.
“Trans 101″?
Why have those producing this course not spotted they are using unacceptable binary concepts – ie the binary notation ‘101”?
Off to the ducking stool with these TERF’s.
The binary/non binary dichotomy is just sooooooo binary. The future of self ID is surely Hexadecimal with pronouns being nybble/octact/ tetrade
Ruby says:
30 June, 2022 at 9:58 am
There is no entry for “woman”
This must be a hate crime. It certainly feels like it to me.
My prediction is that the role of the ‘woman’ to be known as ‘womb havers’ in this new queer world is to be surrogates for trans mothers.
Abortion will be illegal and so will all forms of contraception for obvious reasons.
It feels like we are living in a science fiction novel.
Yup. All gone a bit J G Ballard.
Under his eye….
Reading through all of this quiltbaggery fantasy nonsense, I had the Lumberjack song as an earworm. Classic lines in there such as “I wish I’d been a girlie, just like my dear Papa”.
Purist pedant Pythons may reconise that this quote is from the film not the original series as it references the biological sex of Michael Palin’s character’s sperm donator parent and not their gender. Or something like that. Did I get this right? Did I win a prize?
And meanwhile over on Yours For Scotland there’s Dr Stuart Ballantine explains how Scotland needs over 40 new ferries over the next thirty years and how it is lunacy not to build these in covered in shipyards in Scotland to proven designs.
Creating jobs, apprenticeships, careers to support and enhance our economy and transport infrastructure as opposed to building ships in foreign yards Dr Ballantyne question whether there is anyone in government with any sense, who will stand up for Scotland and support our economy and our people. Young people he also says are ten percent of our population and one hundred percent of our future.
Ah well if you read this article, you’ll realise there isn’t anyone with sense in our government. Trans rights, training and educating our children in trans ways is our future.
And you know what, it’s not just ships that are being built in foreign yards. The huge jackets required for the off shore wind farms are not being built in Scotland. No of course not, the huge £3 billion SeaGreen wind farm of the coast of Angus is having its 114 jackets constructed in foreign yards. Thirty in shipyards in Dubai and eighty four in yards in. Hins.
Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, up th3 trans for they shall bring us our future. And what a shower of Dicks we truly are in Scotland for supporting this situation. The absolute beasting of Scotland and we accept it.
Our very own Disney Land.
David Beveridge says:
30 June, 2022 at 9:23 am
If the SC ruling is in favour of the referendum going ahead, you can be sure that the MSM will have an absolute field day with stuff like this.
Ah, but there’s method in her madness.
Say her plan backfires, and Boris decides to let her have her referendum to distract from his own problems after all?
The Yoons have a year’s fun on what sort of Scotland you can expect under a Full Fat Sturgeon regime with all Whitehall reins cut and every day resembled Ru Paul’s Drag Race – people flock to the polls to vote No in sheer blind terror.
Our Dear Leader now gets to take the Moral High Ground that Yes only lost because No appealed to “bigotry”, and as such rather than fall on her sword like Salmond as a failed general, she has a “duty” to stay on as First Minister when there’s all these vulnerable special interest people who need her to “protect” them.
There’s a bit of me really wants to believe that somewhere behind all of this piss a bunch of scammers are laughing all the way to the bank at how easy it was to con the eejits in ScotGov into forcing their employees to take this ‘course’ of utter bollocks.
How did they deliver it with a straight face? Did none of the recipients of this utter shite point to the naked emperor delivering it and laugh uncontrollably?
If the people who developed this crock of horse manure – so obviously objectively false in terms of basic biology, and trying desperately (and failing) to create a veneer of scientific objectivity, actually believe it, then they really do have major psychological problems.
There was a time in the Scotland I grew up in that it would have been met with open contempt and raucous hilarity. “Awa wi yer havers man!”
Now of course the loonies of Human Resources – who will be heavily bought into this – (there is no amount or level of shit that HR are not prepared to buy into) would no doubt initiate disciplinary proceedings against anyone who showed any signs of sanity.
At one level this is all utterly hilarious – but when you really think about it, it is all very troubling and deeply sinister.
Sorry but I gave up on this garbage at Truscum, this nonsense is a complete waste of taxpayers money. In my opinion this gender bollocks is a way to fracture society and the family unit.
Its all over the world there must be some serious cash behind the pushing of this mental ideology when normally sane folk can’t even define what a woman is whilst being interviewed on tv.
Its like a wave of madness has descended on parts of society with regards to this gender BS.
What is it about this that would have men in sheer blind terror?
About a month ago I got an email from West Lothian Council Libraries. The gist of the email was that WLC Libraries were wanting to remove the wording “Modern Woman” from their method of naming the fiction aimed at Women. There was plea in the email to join in the fun and suggest a new name for the collection of fiction books. Of course, I instantly understood what was going on, went to the website and suggested:
“Chicks With Dicks Fantasy” (Would that be more in line with your thinking?)
I didn’t get any kind of response — though I was half-expecting the police to turn up at my door. Very disingenuous of WLC Libraries to not flag that they were indulging in politics over a new name for what would normally be called Women’s Fiction. Libraries: let’s remove the title ‘Women’ from our book collections. Great Idea — I wonder what brought that on?!
Where can I access this in Braille?
“Chicks With Dicks Fantasy”
Peter N @10.50am.
Peter, as Ted said in the movie (Ted or maybe it was Ted 2) “There are no chicks with dicks, just MEN with boobs.”
I think the fight against this insane gender ideology is now the most important struggle of all tbh.
Come back scholastic application of syllogistic logic in a vain effort to prove/disprove the existence of God, all is forgiven.
Not so much 2+2=5, more 2 testicles + 2 ovaries = 5 bottles of shampoo divided by zero.
And to think, when I got to the stuff about outer space I was almost beginning to imagine I might be starting to understand it.
Why is nobody asking ‘What is a man?’
Do men have vaginas?
Do you think if men in were ‘in sheer blind terror’ about this any of it would be happening?
Rev, would it be possible for you to send this post to all the Scottish newspapers?
People really do need to know what is going on in government and many/all institutions e.g. the Burrell having trans interpretations/comments attached to the information on some exhibits; M&S no longer having women’s changing rooms; women’s prisons accepting men; schoolchildren being brainwashed…
We cannot “wheesht for independence” – truth and reality are at stake. I am sure this is all a deliberate strategy to help derail Scotland regaining independence – Sturgeon et al are going to block us. Terrifying and so sad.
I am grateful to holymacmoses 9:31
For providing the background to ‘Dr’ Jonah Coman’s ‘academic’ training
link to twitter.com
link to glasgowschoolofart.academia.edu
‘Queer Studies’
So apparently, he received his ‘PhD’ in Queer Studies from the Glasgow School of Art.
Obviously, no biological science input was either available or required.
There was a time when the GSA was a world-renowned school of art, that produced painters and sculptors of international repute.
If there was ever any doubt that academic drift in such a magnificent erstwhile artisan citadel was a really big mistake – ‘Dr’ Jonah Coman provides all the evidence we need to dispel that doubt.
What on earth is a School of Art doing providing bogus academic credentials to such utter nonsense?
What the fuck is ‘Queer Studies’ in any case. Upon what lies its academic credentials? What is its epistemological foundation?
If they can manage to rebuild an ersatz replica of the old MacIntosh art school without burning it down again, some of the grownup real artists who might still work there, would do well to return that former adornment to Scotland, back to what it was good at – and forget the pretentious pseudo-intllectual bullshit.
Sturgeon is sitting on a powder-keg with this stuff going on underneath her.
Does anyone else feel like we have already lived thru humanity’s golden era and are now descending down into a quagmire of every increasing, nonsensical and pathetic first world self indulgence where everything that was previously understood and accepted is seen by our so called top 10% of young people as things to totally reject, that belong to the bad old days and have no place in our future?
Absurdities like actual women do not have dicks and why it would be utterly ridiculous and dangerous to allow say, a man who now wishes to wear eyeliner and mooch about in the sanitary towel aisle in tescos claiming his imaginary menstruations are just as worthy of tampons as the next person who menstruates, to get into a boxing ring with an actual menstruating person… or women in other words.
These are the kind of cunts that will be in charge when i’m old and at their mercy if we let them, and that scares the utter shite outa me.
FUBAR.
Really enjoying your posting again Rev. Always a must-read.
The idea that the loony description of a “biological women” is a person with a womb, (it’s ridiculous that we have to talk like this) why is a man not described as a person without a womb.
If there is trouble describing a woman under this new fetishist ideology, surely there is also trouble describing what a man is.
@Soda.
There was a famous Calvin & Hobbes cartoon from 1995 where he goes round the doors at Halloween without any costume.
When asked what he’s supposed to be, he replies with a smile, ‘I’m yet another resource consuming kid in an overpopulated planet, raised to an alarming extent by Madison Avenue and Hollywood, poised with my cynical and alienated peers to take over the world when you are old and weak.’
His trick or treat bag is bulging in no time at all.
An interesting view on the issue:
link to 12ft.io
They’re talking scientific garbage and then trying to sound scientific by talking about ‘Gender Galaxy’ and putting in bits that they’ve read in a popular science book (and I must make it clear, I love popular science books).
To quote James Garner in ‘Space Cowboys’ – “I think I’ll just go to my room and cry.”
Who would have thought that it would come to this? There is something very sinister about this Scottish government.
I cannot trust Sturgeon with anything!
Hello Stuart,
I know this probably won’t get onto the comments but I just wanted to point out that the direction we are taking is something I was talking about for years, before it was happening
That includes the slow creep of acceptance of paedophilia.
It’s happening.
It’s not Sturgeon. It’s not even Westminster. It’s the same people who tried to get us on vaccine passports.
Its also the same people pushing ‘diversity’ on us, and for the same reasons: link to informationliberation.com
‘Store-risk metrics include average store compensation, average total store sales, and a “diversity index” that represents the racial and ethnic diversity of every store. Stores at higher risk of unionizing have lower diversity and lower employee compensation’
Just wanted to point out to you (or anyone else who sees this) that what is happening in Scotland now is very much coming from outside of Scotland and even outside of Britain.
The only thing that shocks me that in this information age the Scottish pro-indy population is still not up to speed on this stuff and what it means for our future.
Breastplate says:
30 June, 2022 at 11:49 am
The idea that the loony description of a “biological women” is a person with a womb, (it’s ridiculous that we have to talk like this) why is a man not described as a person without a womb.
If there is trouble describing a woman under this new fetishist ideology, surely there is also trouble describing what a man is.
Maybe if Keir Starmer & Craig Murray were reduced to being described as ‘sperm donors’ they might have more understanding of how women feel.
Is there any of this as Mark Boyle has suggested have *men in sheer blind panic?
*sperm donors.
Is this document actually produced by the government? I am assuming not to retain my sanity. But the fact they either don’t know or don’t care that it is being distributed under their auspices is disturbing enough.
I have noticed this before – trans activist employees working for major institutions who seem to have carte blanche and no scrutiny. It is must be a dream for them – unopposed infiltration into the heart of government of ideas that are truly extreme and utterly false. And at the same time demonising the vast majority of the population. Incredible. What is the mindset that allows this? I don’t understand, genuinely.
The lack of accountability it shocking, whilst at the same time people are being arrested for expressing disagreement with aspects of gender theory much less extreme than this stuff.
Ruby, I suggest ‘ejaculators’.
Ruby,
I think generally speaking men are onboard with women on this particular subject and I think they would be among the first to call out a guy in a dress as a guy in a dress.
PacMan says:
30 June, 2022 at 11:59 am
An interesting view on the issue:
People can climb the social “pecking order” by claiming they are trans, Tom Holland, the historian, has suggested.
The best-selling author has claimed there is a “growing” trend of people claiming to have a particular gender or sexual orientation in “progressive” circles in London and UK universities.
Being heterosexual is “boring” and places people “down the pecking order”, Mr Holland has said, and more cultural cache can be gained by being transgender than “bog-standard straight”.
link to 12ft.io
He’s probably thinking about Lynette Nusbacher, who remains a bit of a sore point in historical academia. She is responsible for one of the shittiest books you will ever read about the battle of Bannockburn, and the rest ain’t much better. She only went trans in 2007 – dumping a wife and two kids in the process.
Mark Boyle,
It’s been happening in women’s sport for a while but at least now there is a growing backlash.
I think as somebody further up the comments put it that we are “passed peak trans”, if we’re not we must be close.
I spotted a typo in the email at the start of this article.
Email signature should actually read Jonah Conman (He’s at it).
Wonder what the wage is for a Learning and Development Lead at Digital Scotland is? I suspect it be £40K – £50K p/a which could be spent a whole lot better than this.
In the meantime. McGarry gets 2 years for £24,000. So what will Sturgeon and hubby get for 600k ?
link to msn.com
Didn’t these stories used to begin with “once upon a time….”
I see ‘Dr’ Jonah Coman’s ‘PhD’ supervisor was ‘Professor’ Vicky Gunn.
You can see her here
link to mobile.twitter.com
Definitely a woman with a dick y-bow!
and a tweed waistcoat – and other male accoutrements.
Very fetching.
Apparently now at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland.
Registrar/Secretary
@RCStweets
; Quietly queer HE wonk; lover of arts, the medieval, social justice+peace & Harris Tweed. She/her
WPath Standards of Care could be particularly interesting from a ministerial/ ministerial code perspective
ie to eliminate impolite errors arising from the misinterpretation of big wrist bones, greater use of the infamous grab test should be encouraged. This would be especially useful in categorizing remaining employees considered (still) cocky enough to not openly advertise preferences/ IQ on their name tags (and may arguably be misused to discipline those hesitant about submitting to arbitrary fluid injections and other potentially humiliating workplace rituals and dress codes, etc) but is nonetheless in direct conflict with contemporary Scottish case law precedent on attempted rape and sexual assault..
Are grown adults actually listening to this garbage and scared to speak out in case some nonentity calls them a bigot? So fucking what if he think you’re a bigot, I’d wear that as a badge of honour.
In the recent census there was a question asking if I was trans.
I replied that I do not know what trans means and I am now awaiting the arrival of the thought police
O/T but interesting I think.
Westminster deletes the Scottish Claim of Right.
link to twitter.com
Ex-SNP MP Natalie McGarry receives two years in prison for embezzlement.
Republicofscotland says:
30 June, 2022 at 12:57 pm
O/T but interesting I think.
Westminster deletes the Scottish Claim of Right.
link to twitter.com
Not sure where it’s been deleted from, but the 2018 Debate was Archived…
link to archive.ph
Immensely indebted to you Stu for trawling through this utter shite and giving us the sane interpretation . Honestly hope you had a stiff drink with you at the time.
Breeks did you just archive it, or was it archived for a while, does it still say the same on a live search?
The claim is that these sections have been deleted from the minutes.
“That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.”
@willie,
I think your name is now politically incorrect!!!
Breastplate says:
30 June, 2022 at 12:33 pm
Mark Boyle,
It’s been happening in women’s sport for a while but at least now there is a growing backlash.
I think as somebody further up the comments put it that we are “passed peak trans”, if we’re not we must be close.
It was actually myself on the Wasted Years thread who spoke about “peak trans” and the woman’s sport backlash.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Sharron Davies, credit where it’s due, has been the voice crying in the wilderness over trans athletes taking the piss for far too long. She was diddled out of the gold medal in the 1980 Moscow Olympics by East Germany’s Petra Schneider, who was so doped with testosterone she began growing chest hair, such was the Stasi’s insane “enhancement” programme when that evil old bastard Honecker ruled the “Democratic Republic” as a mini-Fuhrer.
The Olympic committee has always refused to upgrade Davies medal to gold – despite having disqualified Schneider after the collapse of the Iron Curtain – because it would mean having to upgrade another East German, Grit Slaby, to bronze – and back in those days non-medal winners weren’t tested.
Davies isn’t exactly the nicest person in the world, but there’s no doubting the sincerity of her beliefs, or the quality of her arguments – as she points out, if a biologically female athlete injected herself with the maximum amount of testosterone a trans athlete is still allowed to have in their system to be allowed to compete in women’s events, the biologically female athlete would be life banned.
She’s also someone you would never want to get on the wrong side of. Her swimming coach when an Olympian (a right piece of work since jailed for kiddy fiddling offences), treated his athletes like his personal servants. When they were heading out to Moscow, he realised at the airport he’d left a bag behind – flinging her his keys, he told her to go back to his house to fetch it!
She returned with the bag … and he returned from Moscow weeks later to find the brand news but mysteriously damp tufty pile lounge carpet installed days before he’d left was now ruined by an even more splendid carpet of freshly grown cress …
Republicofscotland says:
30 June, 2022 at 1:35 pm
Breeks did you just archive it, or was it archived for a while, does it still say the same on a live search?
That archive says it’s three years old, but the live search is still finding it too
Whatever minutes she’s referring to, it doesn’t seem to be these. Need more info about what she’s referring to…
On twitter because I am a PhD Biologist I describe myself as a Reality Defender though I do have the suffragette colours by my username. These have resulted in me being misgendered a few times. People see those colours and think I cannot be male and using them. My Bio states I am male.
The reality which is sex and the genetics behind it needs defending in these ridiculous PoMo times.
ALL of the people spouting off about gender will at some point have the reality of their sex brought home to them. Maybe when they get a bad adverse reality because they have not been prescribed appropriately for their sex. Or ditto diagnose wrongly.
Denying reality has consequences. They will bite you at some point. The only question is how hard.
Republicofscotland says:
30 June, 2022 at 1:35 pm
Breeks did you just archive it, or was it archived for a while, does it still say the same on a live search?
That archive says it’s three years old, but the live search is still finding it too
Whatever minutes she’s referring to, it doesn’t seem to be these. Need more info about what she’s referring to…
Actually… just found what she’s talking about.
link to hansard.parliament.uk
This is from where it’s been removed… not sure if any archive of this exists from before…
The snp are pushing this ideology in Scotland, and the snp have to be told NO in a big way,
Perhaps the snp think it might put you off voting for snp in independennce.
It is odd that they are pushing this to coincide with an up and coming year or two to frree Scotland.
On the other hand we have to be aware that the British forces and police forces of Britain have adopted some ideology too.
We have to remember that this is also being done the other side of the world in Australia and Canada.
This mentality is not the reserve of just Scotland, we have no control over governments on the other side of the world doing exactly the same.
Our tax payers finances is paying for some of it, but we need to research who is funding and controlling our government en masse with large amounts of money,
There is no use being independent as a nation, as a people, as a country if [ we , and our government are being controlled from outwith Scotland ]
Pulling the strings of our leaders, ” it is the snp puppets,” right now and YES we need to stop them in their tracks now, today, those with children, grandchildren mums and dads need to really step up let it be known within the education circles, that they will withdraw their children from schools that teach this ideology. And you get a lot of support from the rest of Scotland.
But the key tool they use is brain washing education into our kids and youngsters, they are in the playground with your kids.
However where is the funding coming from that is in the Scottish government, the British armed forces, the British police, the Canadian government and Australia are all coing the same.
Over the last few days reading all the comments on all topics you could be blamed for thinking that the Snp are setting us up to fail.
You will hate them enough not to vote for them.
They will exclude other independence parties,
They do not listen to the Scottish people,
And they are just about throwing the sovereignty of Scots and Scots law under a bus to English constructed supreme court that has no jurisdiction according to the articles in the treaty of the union.
Do not misunderstand me, I can see what the independence movement are trying to achieve long term,
But which and who’s money is controlling the big wheels in the manipulation of Scotland.
Stonewall used to be one,
WHO’ S controlling our government.with money?
Independence will never truly be, unless we control our government, Not outside players, whom are controlling the Snp right now?
Follow the money.
Muscleguy says:
30 June, 2022 at 2:09 pm
“ALL of the people spouting off about gender will at some point have the reality of their sex brought home to them. Maybe when they get a bad adverse reality because they have not been prescribed appropriately for their sex. Or ditto diagnose wrongly.
Denying reality has consequences. They will bite you at some point. The only question is how hard”.
So very true Muscleguy. There was the recently reported case of a Trans ‘woman’ who sought treatment too late for ‘her’ prostate cancer. He died, of course.
These are the tragic consequences of this utterly misguided madness surrounding sex and gender. Sex is a scientifically verifiable fact – indeed the most profound part of our nature.
In biological terms the ONLY reason for individual existence is to pass on our DNA. Full Stop.
In sexually reproducing organisms – and this includes all mammals – sexual dimorphism serves the purpose of ensuring genetic variation down the generations. There is nothing more biologically fundamental than sex.
Breeks @2.14pm.
Yeah that’s it Breeks good find, she’s just posted that link on her twitter.
Mark Boyle,
I like the story of the forgotten bag.
My apologies for not crediting you with the phrase but I try to read everybody’s comments and was too lazy too sift back through the posts.
Muscleguy,
That was one of my concerns too.
Can a trans woman sue a medical practitioner for prescribing treatment for a man or likewise sue them for prescribing treatment for a woman when things go wrong medically?
It is too much to stomach.
If this is the price of Independence then stuff it.
I became a Nationalist when Salmond was in control not because I thought we were going to be better off economically, but his inspiration kindled something in me that I thought had been long ago suffocated, a feeling that society did not need to end up in “hell in a handcart”.
Now I see that Independence is going to take us to a place worse than hell and we are being taken there by stealth.
We need to lose the referendum if one is ever obtained, then boot the whole of the Sturgeon administration including the “bravehearts” right out of power…..the start all over again.
Muscleguy says:
30 June, 2022 at 2:09 pm
On twitter because I am a PhD Biologist I describe myself as a Reality Defender though I do have the suffragette colours by my username. These have resulted in me being misgendered a few times. People see those colours and think I cannot be male and using them. My Bio states I am male.
That’s because the suffragette colours have been hijacked by the LBGTQ+ monetarisation industry and are also the colours of “Genderqueer”.
The person responsible, Marilyn Roxie, goes through some tortuous mental gymnastics to deny it was on purpose, even though the original version they made in 2010 was black, white and lavender, and that the green in the “rainbow” gay flag they claim to be referencing actually stands for nature!
It’s not the first time they’ve done this: the pansexual flag which also first “appeared” in 2010 is really that of Kingdom of Cochin, an 800 year old kingdom whose autonomy was surprisingly respected by both the Dutch, Portuguese and British empires, and whose harbours were regarded as some of the best in Asia (and centres of the spice trade), but which was bullied into being absorbed into the newly independent India in 1947. Less than a year after joining, all promises that its unique identity would be protected were binned, it was forcibly merged with one larger neighbouring state after another, and now is barely remembered.
If you wonder why that flag in particular was stolen, its because Cochin is supposedly an acronym for “cock and coochie” (ie. yank for male and female genetilia).
Slogged through this. Needed a laugh. Thought about what Johnny Craddock said at the end of the tv cooking programme when his wife had made do-nuts:
‘May all your donuts look just like Fanny’s.’
Quietly chuckling when knock at the door. Thought Police. Taken straight to Edinburgh jail. Fortunately my cell mate is a drop dead gorgeous 222 year old girl who self identifies as a gay man who is addicted to sex. (S)he is prescribed viagra (for her/his partners)
I shalln’t last til morning, so farewell all.
Now thinking that what I have written makes more sense than the article I have read.
Hold on, there’s a knock at the door…..
Akenaton,
I think it would be logical to assume that an independent Scotland would be more likely to change trajectory than if we opt for the present political circumstances.
‘More of the same madness. They’re making Scotland an international embarrassment.’
Just received that comment from a friend who has been living abroad for almost 30 years. He’s always been interested in politics and is ‘a Proud Scot’, no ‘buts’ about it. He has been following this place for a long time and was referring to this post specifically.
He didn’t have a vote in the 2014 referendum and won’t have a vote in the next. Like so many of our relatives and friends, he shifted for work reasons, did well, and has made a success of his life. I don’t remember him ever saying that he ‘had to get out to get on’ but that has always been the tragic rationale informing the choices of generations of Scots.
No, he won’t have a say. But monied, titled, well-connected chinless wonders who were born and live in Chelsea, Belgravia or Chipping Norton and spend their leisure time on vast private estates, blasting the living daylights out of creatures bred for their entertainment (and wrecking the environment in the process) will have a vote. They will never be persuaded of the case for independence because they don’t care and therefore won’t listen. They’re under no obligation to ‘Scotland’. To them it doesn’t exist. It’s just a picturesque playground, a bit of ‘elbow room’. They’ve always been quite content with the way things are, thanks very much.
I’m not the only one who is seething at the comments from Craig Murray and others who should know better. His positivity is admirable, of course, but in the current climate and with all that we already know about Sturgeon, Swinney et al, it borders on the irresponsible.
We’re heading for a gunfight armed with a rotten carrot.
🙁
and these are the balloons that will “lead” us all to independence?
As an astrophysicist, I can say that as well as not understanding biology, they also don’t understand galaxies, gravitation, matter (and how we identify it), or the expansion of the universe. Surprise surprise.
I can understand people being confused about their identity and what role they want to play in society, but this surely just complicates those feelings further?
Yes, biological sex is real but so too is intersex. However, because intersex people exist, that doesn’t mean everyone under the sun is now on the intersex ‘spectrum’ but just don’t know it.
What we need is DNA testing of everyone at birth, showing that they belong to either male or female sex category, or in rare cases, a separate intersex category. Anyone going for health care because of ‘trans’ issues, particularly counselling, should also be given the DNA test so that they know their genetic sex status. I’m sure that in some cases that will show anomalies, but I would suspect in most cases that it would simply show either male or female, and may provide a ‘rock’ around which they can centre their identity.
It can be hard to fit into society at times and I feel for people who are still trying to figure out who they are and where they belong. I had similar difficulties in my younger days coming to terms with being gay when no-one else around me was. So I feel for these people and it’s right we should help them. But asking all of society to adopt their ways is crazy, especially when they’ve clearly stated that gender is anything you want it to be.
However, if creating new gender feelings helps these people survive in an otherwise cruel world, then good on them. But it’s up to the rest of us to acknowledge that it’s simply that: a creation, and not a reality that we all need to conform to.
I tried to read that claptrap but had to give up. Do these people have no sense of humour? If those they are lecturing to had the guts to burst out laughing the whole flimflam edifice would collapse. ( Orwell, I think made a similar point about goose-stepping Nazis. Mind you, you could make that point stick when observing an audience in a British picture house laughing at wartime footage of marching Nazis, intending to cause ridicule but it’s doubtful if a sense of the ridiculous would ever have stopped a Nazi.) At least Jonah and his fellow fantasists haven’t been issued with actual weaponry yet. (Yet they do have the police ready to act for them which is another important factor for entryism fascism.)
However, we are paying for his hateful drivel. Now I’m finally sure we aren’t going for independence. How could activists go out and campaign on the streets for the shower of incompetents in the SG who want to inflict this lunacy on us? How would you defend their record to voters on the doorstep? Impossible. Expect to be be met by rude laughter and incredulity.
Only if the larger independence movement could wrest the campaign from the clownish grasp of the SNP could something be salvaged before the cause dies in laughable indignity. But it’s a big ask.
Contact with these people may seriously damage your health; intellectual, ethical, moral as well as physical. ID.fascism with its symbols, manifestos, newspeak and denatured storm queens is apparently turning Scotland OMG! into the most deviant friendly country on the planet with the «queerest» national legislature.
?v=1615016550
The new national costume…..
but don’t dare make assumptions as to what’s under the kilt.
If this is the country’s future the Scots will have died out by the end of the century owing to lack of will(ie) power.
Something to get (select fav. pronoun) in the mood.
link to minus18.org.au
Republicofscotland says:
30 June, 2022 at 2:41 pm
Breeks @2.14pm.
Yeah that’s it Breeks good find, she’s just posted that link on her twitter.
Seems the edit has been put back.
link to twitter.com
But surely this needs a fuller investigation. They’re doctoring the Hansard recording of events. How many times? When did it start? Who is doctoring the records?
@Brotherhood 3.14 pm
“No, he won’t have a say. But monied, titled, well-connected chinless wonders who were born and live in Chelsea, Belgravia or Chipping Norton and spend their leisure time on vast private estates, blasting the living daylights out of creatures bred for their entertainment (and wrecking the environment in the process) will have a vote.”
At least try to have some sense of proportion: you’ll come across as less of a fringe crank mainlining on Brigadoon and Buckfast. How many of the Chelsea set do you think there are amongst the roughly 2.7 million Scottish voters? There seems to be a fixation for some in these parts about second home owners and landed gentry as though they were some huge group that was going to rob us of independence.
Perhaps if you all had less of a chip on your shoulder you’d realise that most of the people who move here are just ordinary folk moving for much the same reason hundreds of thousands of Scots have moved in the other direction: seeking jobs, opportunities and a better life. Some of them will convinced unionists of course, but we all know that many support independence. Doubtless others are persuadable if we use the right arguments and have a good case.
Personally, I doubt telling them they’re not allowed a vote because they’re not really Scottish enough unless they were born here or have lived here for 15 years and can recite the whole of Tam O’ Shanter in flawless Scots while eating a fried Mars Bar and drinking a pint of Irn Bru standing on their heads will convince them to vote Yes.
It’s interesting that you and nutter collective in here are already prophesying doom and furiously circle jerking yourselves in to a lather othering anyone that dares to express contrary views. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose, eh?
We don’t all have to become best mates and have a group hug to achieve independence. The likelihood is there won’t be an indyref2, but at least we know there IS now a Plan B, and we have two and half years to try and build a majority.
We don’t have to campaign with the SNP, or like their policies, because it isn’t and won’t be the SNP’s campaign. Plebiscitary elections just need as many people as possible to vote for pro-independence parties, because whatever the moonhowling fraternity asserts, it will be votes, not seats that count.
Breeks @4.22pm.
That’s right just checked and this is what she said.
“They have now reinstated it AFTER I queried it directly with them this morning! A statement from 2021 changed in 2022! Sleekit gits.”
link to twitter.com
I’m wondering what other minutes of meeting have been doctored along the way on the Hansards records.
Just a thought, but shouldn’t the Scottish Government be running courses for their staff run by Gender Critical people explaining scientific reality? I’m sure LGB Alliance could help put together some relevant material based and suggest some speakers for courses to present a corrective to the huge meringue of unreason confected by the “Learning and Development Lead”.
I wonder if the material presented was put through any process of review, or who signed it off for release?
A bit confused about the subject just days after the announcement of Indyref2 .
Alex and Craig have attempted to bring together opposing sides who have real reasons to distrust each other ,both have said division will only help the Union side so please don’t be tempted to join in ,by all means knock lumps out of each other after the event and don’t not cripple it before it even starts ,
DONT HELP THE UNION by shooting each other you can settle scores after we win .
@Robert Graham 4.52 pm
You’re a fucking hypocrite who must think folk have very short memories. The exchange below is from The Wasted Years thread, dated 29/06/22 as reported by estimable Mark Boyle:
Andy Ellis says:
29 June, 2022 at 8:56 am
People can believe that UDI based on less than 50% is feasible and keep repeating it all they like, but it doesn’t make it any more true. The 2015 election result was 49.97%. Close, but no cigar.
For the result to stand based on plebiscitary elections, it’s the number of votes cast not the number of seats that counts.
Nobody is going to recognise a claim for independence that doesn’t demonstrate a majority of voters in favour. Anyone claiming otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Rev. Stuart Campbell [He who runs Wings Over Scotland …] says:
29 June, 2022 at 9:58 am
[in reply to the above post by Andy – word for word]
100% this.
Two minutes later:
Robert Graham says:
29 June, 2022 at 10:00 am
Ellis @ 8:56
FK off yah English plant.
Stoker says:
30 June, 2022 at 9:14 am
“None of this freakery is anything to do with independence. That is *exactly* why ‘Skanky Sturgeon’ & Co are pushing this agenda right now, to ride on the wave of popular growing indy support. Because they could never get something like these issues through parliament under normal election mandate conditions.”
And women will be expected to wheesht again – no bloody chance.
Re “Appropriation” – what gives these queer men the right to appropriate the perceived trappings of “womanhood”. Surely they are guilty of cultural appropriation? Same with any female daft enough to go along with this crap. FFS it’s easy enough to stand up to pee if you want to without mutilation your body, girls.
Robert Graham says:
30 June, 2022 at 4:52 pm
In other words “wheest for indy” – even if it means women losing their safe spaces and gay people being treated as pariahs for refusing to date so called “trans” folk. Nah.
Fun quiz.
The new ideology is not one specific topic, nor is the future direction looking very funny.
It is the attempt by those in power to bring a conformity to human beings, to make all humans the same, to be treated the same, to be judged the same, to live the same, to be treated by government as the same, to hold the same beliefs so as to bring control.
Once this is realised, every weird topic around the world starts making sense,
So here goes the subjects and the questionaire.
All humans biological sex gender will eventually become one ) in law, not two. Three or four.
All humans will eventually be forced to stop industries and businesses and become financially reliant on the state.
All humans will live on restricted finances, one universal credit pay grade.
All humans will use the same language and pronouns by law and legislation.
All humans will be mass vaccinated regardless of necessity.
All humans will be restricted in their ability to travel or go outside their home. as a long term aim.
All humans will be restricted in their free speech and protests.
All humans will have ID passports.
All humans will have food rationing.
All human parents will hand over responsibility for education, sex, gender, family life over to their government.
All breeding couples will hand Reproduction decisions over to a new government breeding programme.
All humans do not have automatic rights as humans, they do not have to be housed, be kept warm, or be fed.nor to keep any finances gained to themselves..
All humans may have restricted medical help at any time.
All humans can be Censored financially through their Id cards for universal credit, for travel, for vaccination, for food access.
for clothing,
for water supplies
and energy supplies … if they do not conform or comply to any government instruction.
Tick of the ones that are happening at the moment,
and the ones that have already happened separate.
Keeping in mind the ones that have already happened first.
Here is some guidance.
Water supplies and control of, has already happened.
energy supply and control of, has already happened.
Max vaccination programming and control of, has already happened.
Restricted travel and control of, has already happened.
Withdrawing medical help under government control, has already happened.
What conformity control is in the process of happening at present?
My head hurts trying to read this utter trash. It’s like a feverish insistence on denying the truth and reeks of despair. The one cardinal characteristic of truth is simplicity. Biological facts are easy to understand.
Regarding Indy ref 2, why now? This is a convenient distraction from the disasters under Sturgeon’s watch. As Stuart recently highlighted, her governance of Scotland is a litany of abject failures. This is her usual posturing rhetoric and political manoeuvring. I don’t trust her. She specialises in deception, is a liar, cunning, manipulative, cruel and cowardly.
The Supreme Court will do its Establishment bidding and say no. “ The law’s not about justice. It’s a system we’ve put in place because we can’t have justice.” D C Laidlaw character from one of the late William McIlvanney novels. As for a plebiscite election, the SNP has never achieved 50% of the votes. Will she work with all Indy parties/candidates? She has said no such thing.
Anyone else notice a recent news headline on BBC Scotland…the death rate of babies under one years old in Scotland is at its highest for a decade. There has also been a 2nd spike in deaths of newborn babies, under 4weeks old, in recent months….no link to Covid. WTAF?
She has no credibility, in my view, and continues to harm the people of Scotland and betray the cause of Independence.
The biggest quiz question is. IF all this is being implemented in Scotland by the Scottish government while paralleling other governments from UK to Australia,
Whom is Funding the direction the Scottish government is taken?
Andy Ellis says:
30 June, 2022 at 4:29 pm
“How many of the Chelsea set do you think there are amongst the roughly 2.7 million Scottish voters? There seems to be a fixation for some in these parts about second home owners and landed gentry as though they were some huge group that was going to rob us of independence.”
Can I ask if you live in a rural area? Certainly the village in which I live has many 2nd homes owned by people with no particular care about Scotland and who would quite happily vote No in case they had to have border checks before their visit- visits made with the car full of all the things they will need for their break so as not to have to have anything to do with the locals or help the local economy.
It’s not just Chelsea set we need to worry about but the little Englanders who see Scotland as forever part of England and the No voting Scots with 2nd homes in the country – who could, feasibly, vote twice.
Residential status for voting is fine – but not 2nd home owners, foreign students or temporary residents. They aren’t allowed a vote in a UK election – so why should we be so accommodating?
Christine.
I think swinney slipped up on twitter by claiming it would be the snp that would be the ones that needed the votes and in control,
Andy Ellis
” Perhaps you’re crusing for a Robert Hughes moment too “Dan”? ”
What moment was that ?
On a basic matter of language, a phobia is a fear of something not a dislike. There are some things to be phobic about, scorpions, rabid dogs, virtue signaling, people with knives but being scared of people screwing themselves in identity knots, no.
Though «they» would prefer you were. It’s a power thing.
Where can i get my yellow not into ID.fascism star.
Wee Chid.
As far as the law goes it States Scots,
The clues are there,
The Scot…tish Claim of right.
The Scot….tish laws,
The Scot…tish right to self determination.
The Country of Scotland, ie of the Scots,
The Scots, what a veminous race.
Scot…tish independence.
Scot…ish 2014 referendum
The Scot…tish devolved government.
The Scot…ish Saltire.
The word …..SCOT …..is in all these phrases enough to distinguish enough for the blind and deaf to know that a Scots person is not german, french or english man.
And the treaty of the union could only happen because the english parliament made a treaty with the Scots parliament, acknowledging them as not being from england, ie not from another country outwith Scotland.
Therefore It would be up to the Scots to decide the Franchise.
UDI is a formal and illegal position that may be taken by any government.
UDI is not a formal position nor illegal position when it is taken By a Recognised sovereign people. Whom have the right to choose a new form of governance.
Ottomanboi 5:57 pm
“On a basic matter of language, a phobia is a fear of something not a dislike.”
Fear is why the British state and its loyal spending department at Holyrood refuse to teach Scots bairns thair ain Scots langage in schuils. Langage an cultur is whit gies fowk thair identity. Aye, a human richt denied, the richt tae yer ain langage. Meantime cultural assimilation continues.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Christine @ 5.44
I agree with your assessment of things. Even if events played out as Sturgeon wants, it seems doomed to failure by insufficient numbers supporting independence. And its even worse, because the vote would again put the SNP back in power for another term to carry on the mis-management.
To cap it all, even if there were a majority of voters for the SNP in a plebiscite election it wouldn’t be of any use. It would be seen for what it is – an attempt to circumvent the inevitable ruling of the Supreme Court, and therefore would just be ignored by Westminster. An election is not a referendum, de facto or otherwise.
I rather think that Sturgeon has had legal advice on this and knows it won’t work. That’s why she’s been against going down this route previously. But her hand has been forced to do something now, and it kicks the can down the road and keeps the gravy flowing for another few years, so what’s not to like if you in her little group? Meanwhile the problems you list will get worse and worse.
The believers have been suckered again. And some who should know better.
A more radical approach is the only answer.
This is what happens when you allow another country to control your financies.
According to BBC Scotland news, Westminster is taking £65 million quid from the Scottish governments budget to give to the country with the blue and yellow flag.
Westminster told the Scottish government it can either give it now, which is has, or have Westminster deduct it at a later date. Ministers are said to be furious, but because of what its for they have decided not to speak out about it.
So we are £65 million quid down. We need shot of this rancid shitty union asap.
@ Gregory Beekman at 3.37: “anyone going for health care because of “trans” issues should be given a DNA test. …it may provide a “rock” around which they can centre their identity.”
Excellent and positive idea, Gregory.
Republicofscotland
We no longer have any representation at any level in Scotland.£65 million taken from our miserable block grant and no one bats an eye lid. We have some 30,000 homeless, more and more food banks are needed every day, children turning up at soup kitchens, people who cannot afford to eat, cannot afford to heat their homes, Come the autumn and winter months they will be freezing in dark houses.
Always money for other unfortunates but never the indigenous people. When will it be our turn, your referendum next October has already failed and failed big time.
On the subject of Stu’s article. I am in a bit of a quandary. On the one hand I think the Scot Gov and Holyrood in general has lost it’s moral compass. If self ID becomes law then I will vote for any party that commits to repeal that leglisation irrespective of political persuasion. On the other hand we have a small probability of an Independence vote. My information before Sturgeons announcement was she was wedded to section 30. And the smartest comment I have seen on this blog was the plescibatary General Election was a last minute tag on. Fits with the Swinney misunderstanding. They couldn’t even get that right. Are we being played again? Genuine question. However if we get a chance of a form of Independence vote we seize the opportunity and go for it big-time. Sturgeon didn’t fill me with confidence on STV this evening refusing to talk about an SNP/Alba and other groups, Yes campaign. News for Sturgeon it’s not down to her as to the form and delivery of the Yes Campaign.
October 19th 2023 Scotlands national suicide day
Thanks for this, Rev. Much of it is in contravention of existing law, like almost everything produced by the SNP. They retain lawyers to offer advice but never heed it, apparently. The rest of this is claptrap of the first degree.
Sorry, folks, but ‘wheesht for indy’ just won’t work. Too many women know what the price will be to ‘wheesht’. To the men on here who are advocating ‘wheesht’: would you be willing and happy to relinquish your every right in order to achieve an independence that cannot be guaranteed and which the SNP leadership have already holed below the water line? Explain how giving up our rights to go into an independent Scotland with no rights because they’ve been handed over to pug-ugly, pretendy ‘wummin’ in frocks is supposed to make us wet our knickers with excitement?
Sturgeon will almost certainly, if it goes to a plebiscitary election, use the equivalent of SNP 1 & 2 to ensure the SNP hegemony for another term, and there will, of course, be no independence because so many will not vote fo the SNP now. What she actually wants is for the GRA reform to be pushed through on the back of independence legislation so that we won’t notice till it’s too late. Except that we are watching her carefully, and we know what she’s up to. All the ‘wheesht for indy’ lot should take a little advice for us mere females: she has done all this to us, promising consultative committees where women’s concerns would be heard. In the event, she ignored everything, invited men to speak on behalf of women and ploughed ahead. Do you seriously think this is any different? There exists a wealth of evidence out there to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that men sheltering under the ‘trans’ umbrella have committed some of the most heinous of crimes against children and women, yet she ignores that evidence, too. She is conning us all again – for the umpteenth time. What is wrong with people that they don’t or won’t see it?
Who in their right mind could vote for the snp an indy Scotland with those perverts na no chance indy ref not a hope in hell
@Wee Chid (5.53) –
I used the chinless wonders as an extreme example to contrast with my patriotic pal as a way of highlighting the blatant unfairness of the current franchise arrangement. They are just the tip of a nasty form of bigotry, often dismissed as ‘banter’, which is more often seen by ordinary Scots when they encounter the ‘Ingerlish’ abroad but becoming increasingly common in the rural areas you allude to.
Ellis knows this full well but grasps whichever end of the stick happens to suit him at the time.
@Lorna 8.15 pm
Many (most?) of the men in here are fully in support of the women fighting against gender woo. Hopefully as the full ascientific idiocy of the TRA extremists becomes more evident that will lead to the general public reacting against it too.
As for the SNP, surely one of the pluses of indy is that SNP is most unlikely to be as dominant in the post indy Scottish political environment than it is now? Victory in a plebiscitary election could and should be followed by elections for a new parliament. I find it hard to believe the SNP will get anywhere near the levels of support it currently enjoys, particularly with former unionist voters having to decide what ‘new’ parties to vote for.
With luck- and some organisation- we should be able to drive a stake through the heart of the deeply regressive, misogynistic TRA movement. Another potential benefit of indy?
Check this out, from an old familiar face, writing earlier this evening on Craig Murray’s blog:
Lorna Campbell says:
30 June, 2022 at 8:15 pm
Thanks for this, Rev. Much of it is in contravention of existing law, like almost everything produced by the SNP. They retain lawyers to offer advice but never heed it, apparently. The rest of this is claptrap of the first degree.
—————–
Well said Lorna. Trouble is a lot of normal men see what’s going on but anytime we say or do something we’re ignored or cast off as homophobic, transphobic, misogynists. This queer theory stuff is well over my head most of the time and i really don’t understand all these pro noun bullshit sayings. It all seems to be to confuse people. Very soon we will see normal heterosexual men arrested for saying something by mistake( or normal opinion free speech) because they don’t realise it upsets the queer crew. This thread by Stu Campbell just emphasizes my point that I think this shit is a trap to get you into jail. Bullshit queer ideology masked with silly words no one’s heard of, it’s a disgrace this shit is coming from a Scottish independence party and we ‘re paying them to do it! It’s deliberate and WILL be used against us next year if we ever get a referendum, that’s a certainty!
Personally I’ve had enough of it and I don’t give a fuck about what I say in a pub or on the street to these morons, I will say a spade is a spade. They can GTF.
Tansgenderism is a mental illness not a medical condition and you don’t treat a mental illness by encouraging it or trying to make the world conform to it.
As regards the idea of a plebiscitary election under Sturgeon, it seems to me to be just another ruse to vote SNP by once again playing on the dearly held desire for independence amongst ordinary Scots which, in the prevailing circumstances, is now an economic necessity. They will claim that only a vote for the SNP can bring about independence and manipulate things one way or another to freeze out the other pro-independence parties. Unfortunately, the reality of Sturgeon’s plan is that we will inevitably be led down yet another cul-de-sac and end up worse off than we ever were before.
Lorna Campbell says:
“Sturgeon will almost certainly, if it goes to a plebiscitary election, use the equivalent of SNP 1 & 2 to ensure the SNP hegemony for another term, and there will, of course, be no independence because so many will not vote for the SNP now. What she actually wants is for the GRA reform to be pushed through on the back of independence legislation so that we won’t notice till it’s too late.”
Lorna, I only read your comment after I had written my comment above. I agree with you entirely and very well explained. Independence is the cloak that Sturgeon has always used to hide her true intentions.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 June, 2022 at 8:49 pm
Check this out, from an old familiar face, writing earlier this evening on Craig Murray’s blog:
Mist001
June 30, 2022 at 19:40
I hate to be patronizing here but I think lots of people are unaware of the situation and how it works, so I’m going to spell it out:
Anaw Ian . You’ve ruined ma nicht. That rocket still spouting his pish aboot, good grief. That fanny is full of crap, never a supporter of Indy in a million years. Forget him, we know he cannae vote in a ref anyhow unless he fly’s in from France by charter plane wae the grouse shooter pals for a pheasant shoot and votes Tory an NAW.
Cue Mr Ellis. I’ve mentioned the elite, here comes the rain.
@robbo –
‘Elite’?
Whatever can you mean old bean?
😉
Lorna and Robbo.
I’m with you 100%. I can’t believe how many people have fallen for Sturgeon’s plot. Again. It’s all designed to get her back into power once more. Then she can push through whatever she wants.
The so-called ‘de facto referendum’ is not worth the paper it’s written on. It will have no validity and would be ignored by Westminster. But it’s the carrot dangled before independence seekers to make them vote SNP once again.
So many people said ‘never again will we trust her’ only to be blinded by the big false carrot and swing in line yet again.
If people cannot see through her by now what hope is there that they ever will? It’s madness.
I wonder what their (hims/hers?) definition of bollocks is.
Because that’s what it is.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 June, 2022 at 8:49 pm
an old familiar face, writing earlier this evening on Craig Murray’s blog:
Mist001
—
Just another radge from Edinburgh with wee man imposter syndrome. Likesy, he got banned sans warning from this site for saying Craig brought it all on himself when he went to jail.
@Saffron Robe (9.12) –
‘Independence is the cloak that Sturgeon has always used to hide her true intentions.’
Hear hear.
And the same goes for Swinney, Robertson, Wishart et al. They are like the old ‘Labour’ stalwarts who didn’t give a fuck about ‘the workers’ and kept as much distance as they could between themselves and anyone genuinely ‘socialist’. I’m thinking of characters like Brian Donohoe, the well-known Ayrshire bigot and Roma-hater who, according to someone who knew him well, was as thick as two short proverbials but was also possessed of preternatural cunning when it came to discerning which side of his bread was buttered.
The extent to which sexual deviance of various forms has emerged as a trait of the ‘modern’ SNP politician is noteworthy if for no other reason than it betrays a fundamental contempt for ‘the ordinary’. Just as in much of academia, being ‘straight’ doesn’t do one’s career trajectory any good. And if certain characters are ‘fluid’ enough to fake their sexuality (deceiving spouses and offspring in a way which is almost impossible for a non-sociopath to imagine) then what else are they capable of?
These people are not trustworthy and any logical consideration of their involvement in achieving independence ought to start out from that fact.
We really don’t deserve to be independent, can’t get my head around those who suggest we throw our support behind the present administration. It’s not as if we are blind to what they have been doing for the last few years and there are relatively few stupid people here, but as someone who is out meeting ordinary folks daily at work, I can tell you that Sturgeon has the women’s vote sown up. She has instigated and propagated a sense of grievance amongst a huge swathe of women who feel nature….and men, have kept women in servitude as broods.
Identity politics of course, but an extremely dangerous and divisive brand…….We need to start fighting back, expose Sturgeon and her boot lickers and make Scotland a place to be proud of again.
“We will make the West so corrupt that it stinks.” Willi Munzenberg.
I suggest that people go and read up on those behind Queer Theory as this is where anyone who says no to them being labelled a Nazi/white supremacist comes from.
Around 2020/21 I was telling people on here to look up Mermaids, I also suggest that people look up the board of The Tavistock and the three judges who overturned the findings against the Tavistock when it appealed. A very uncomfortable pattern emerges but a pattern there is, like it or not.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 June, 2022 at 9:59 pm
Leaving aside the political angle, there is always in life that there is those you need to watch out for. For some, they are easy to spot but for others, they need to learn the hard way.
Nicola Sturgeon is one of these individuals whom we have to look out for. Lets not dwell on the past and her intentions in the past but in the here and now she is only interested in her political survival.
IMHO, this is a political gamble that is rare for Nicola Sturgeon but I think she is confident in it due to the current circumstances. The economy is screwed and we have a summer of industrial unrest not to mention when the winter comes and people have to deal with massive increases in heating due to the situation outside of the UK that affects energy prices.
Given the incompetence of the UK government and the growing lack of support from it amongst it ranks, how long is it going to last?
Could there be another UK General election sooner everybody thinks? Could this potential UK General election produce a result other than an outright Tory victory? Such conditions could give Nicola Sturgeon wriggle room to get out of holding a referendum depending on how she spun it to the public.
I could be totally wrong but giving the evidence of Nicola Sturgeon’s past motivations, it is hardly to inspire confidence, is it despite the BS from the likes of PayPaul Kavanagh?
Update on Peoples Action on Section 30
Dear Peoples Action on Section 30 crew.
I made you a promise back when the case was ongoing that this was not the end. I also made you a promise that we would re-evaluate as things moved forward.
We took A LOT of criticism during the case, but with the First Ministers speech only a few days ago, it has now been proven that our position throughout the people’s action was 100% correct.
Now we’re in the situation that the Scottish Government may very well be walking into a world of hurt, one party going up against the full resources of the UK treasury.
Now is the point that I come back to you and put forward a proposition – two voices are better than one, and 11,000 are better than two.
The process of the supreme court is such that it can allow third-party interventions in procedures. We’ve seen this before in the prorogation of parliament and Brexit cases.
The only reason the court would not hear us in the past was due to standing, because the Scottish Government created the circumstances that the bill supposedly both existed and didn’t exist at the same time. That hurdle is now gone.
None of the research or work we did is wasted. The Scottish Government will likely use a lot of it. However, we have an opportunity here to show the UK Supreme court that the free exercise of our democratic right to self-determination is not just some machination of a singular political party, but the will of the common person.
On that basis, I am currently discussing the matter with our legal team as to whether we can finally have the people heard. I would be eager to hear your opinions on whether or not (with the extreme caveat that it would be based only on whether or not our counsel is sure we’d be heard) you would support our voice, our research and our arguments finally being heard as a third party interjection in the case which is about to call before the Supreme Court on whether or not it is constitutional for the Scottish Parliament to legislate on a second referendum.
If your answer is no, then that will be the decision. But if your answer is yes, I will get to work with setting up a crowdfund on CrowdJustice and retaining counsel.
You are welcome to express your views directly to me in an email to my personal address at MartinKeat@gmail.com
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Mist001, a blast from the past and judging from the various pics he used from his profile on here had watched The man who fell to earth too many times.
I still don`t understand the deafening silence from all those MSP/MPs most of which i would assume regard this stuff as dangerous/comical/ jibberish. Are these people really to be trusted to deliver independence if they are spending money and time on this plate of beans rather than promoting the cause they were elected for.
There is no way we are ever getting independence with this lot.
@Pacman (10.32) –
I remember watching that film once.
And that was too many times.
😉
Ian Brotherhood says: 30 June, 2022 at 10:46 pm
Maybe some mad scientist collected the DNA of Thomas Jerome Newton and created Mist001 but it went horribly wrong and we are left with the fallout 🙂
Another Westminster politician turning into an octopus after a few drinks:
link to 12ft.io
I’ve got a feeling that this won’t appear on the Scottish editions of the UK news?
@Pacman –
Abody loves Bowie in one incarnation or another, but he was never ‘an actor’, was he?
(Lynch made a rare mistake in having him involved with Twin Peaks.)
“We need to lose the referendum if one is ever obtained, then boot the whole of the Sturgeon administration including the “bravehearts” right out of power”
Would winning it with the condition of an election a month or two later not be a better idea?
I’ve sent a link to my MSP. who just happens to be no less than the Secretary for Health, with a request: “Please tell me it’s not true”.
The last time I wrote to him, one of his minions told me I was “on the wrong side of history”, so I’m not expecting a sensible reply.
I bet Adolph Hitler claimed to be on “the right side of history”.
Why in god’s name are we having to deal with this insanity.
You should also check out transhumanism. Just to get hold of a further aspect of the direction of travel. People like Max More and natasha Vita-More …
These people will never be satisfied. They will always want ‘more’…
This is the beginning of Maximum Totalitarianism. That is not just a wee bit of it, like nice friendly people of the 20th Century occasionally dabbled in (you know, Adolf and Poor Old Joe and the rest)… Nothing so tepid as that.
This is Totalitarianism Max – more and More and EVEN MORE of it. Forever and ever…
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet. This is just the beginning.
The Beast is insatiable, and will gore everyone – more and more!
With apologies to well-intentioned, morally upright and right-thinking atheist friends, G. K. Chesterton noted long ago that the problem that arises when people stop believing in God is not that they will then believe in nothing. It is that, sooner rather than later, most of them will end up believing in just about anything at all.
Any old (or rather new) nonsense, that anyone tells them, that is. Given what the Rev has posted above, in this excellent article, it is very difficult to deny that this is already happening. Pretty much in plain daylight, moreover.
This post is not aimed against sane and reasonable and searching, critical forms of atheism. Though you could certainly say it is opposed to totally insane versions of the same. And that insanity is clearly on display here.
Sturgeon is allowing Scotland to be used as an experimental playground for some very strange core beliefs indeed, which she seems to hold dear and adhere to. And these beliefs are nothing to do with independence. Despite her calm and seemingly reasonable exterior, what is really going on here?
Where will it all end? This is just a beginning, after all. Muscleguy and others on here are right: if you deny reality, it will surely come back to bite you – big time. This is all about the destruction of humanity, and NS and her minions seem to be front-line storm troopers for that end. On their agenda, no matter which false balloons they put up to float in the air, down on the hard ground of reality, Scotland must surely be on the brink of extinction.
More and more of this stuff, and not just our and Scotland’s future will be in jeopardy, but so too is our very existence. Historical precedents show how amazingly quickly this can happen, and in the most unexpected places. We should really be very, very wary.
I am 100% for independence. But she, and hers, will have to go. The practical issue is how to gain independence and simultaneously get completely rid of her, and them – and their crazy agenda – all at the same time.
That looks like a very difficult combination of things to achieve all at once. But it’s not impossible, even if it seems such at first sight. In my view, we have to find a way to do it. And we can, if we consciously aim at it.
Older atheism
Interesting it uses American spellings. I wonder why that might be, now…
Ian Brotherhood says: 30 June, 2022 at 11:02 pm
I’m more forgiving in actors performances when it comes to visual directors like Roeg and Lynch 🙂
Bill Craig says: 30 June, 2022 at 11:07 pm
While we are talking about films, I’ve give a quote from an old Jimmy Cagney film that is relevant to your comment:
Cotter is Nicola Sturgeon and the MSP you mentioned is the character in film that I had quoted. That MSP is totally out of their depth and riding on the curtails of Sturgeon in the good times when no questions were asked.
Now that questions are being answered, your MSP hasn’t a clue what to say or get out of it. I don’t need to be a mastermind to guess that the same thing will happen to a lot of SNP MP’s and MSP’s when the difficult questions need to be answered.
Older atheism still existed in a world that believed in reason, and in a culture that still knew how to think, with a vibrant and critical outlook, and also a right degree of tolerance for a variety of opinions. Proper scientific enquiry could thrive in that environment. There are signs suggesting that that hardly exists any more. What it is increasingly replaced with is the exercise of naked power, destroying all views alternative to its own, and imposing itself by force, stealth, dissimulation and the constant repetition of deliberate, shameless and brazen, straight-in-your-face lies.
Unbelievable and shocking as it is, t is right there, in front of our noses. Anyone with eyes to see should be able to see it, by now.
@ wull
Transhumanism. That nonsense is only coming out of Silicon Valley which is where this social media that it this driving this tans stuff.
The BBC is very London metropolitan and pushes it’s view to the rest of the UK despite the different outlook in the different parts of the UK.
The same happens to the Silicon Valley social media to the rest of the world.
@wull (11.15) –
Hear fuckin hear!
I’ve heard intelligent people say ‘Tuned right into everything that’s happening, Google, Youtube, the works, and I can call anyone I like anytime I like just by thinking about it? Cool!’
That’s the level of denial we’re dealing with. Klaus ‘Crappest Bond Villain Of All Time’ Schwab has openly told us that it’s going to happen.
The same gullible fannies who’ve got all their jabs and boosters ticked off on a wee card will be the first to line-up for a fuckin spark-plug getting rammed into the back of their nappers.
Strange days indeed – most peculiar momma!
😉
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 June, 2022 at 8:49 pm
Check this out, from an old familiar face, writing earlier this evening on Craig Murray’s blog:
Mist001
June 30, 2022 at 19:40
I hate to be patronizing here but I think lots of people are unaware of the situation and how it works, so I’m going to spell it out:
INDEPENDENCE is the goal. As myself, Craig and others have already said, this is the time to work together to achieve that goal.
When Scotland becomes independent, then the very next day, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP will immediately be in charge of running the country. THAT is the time to start attacking her, the SNP and their record in government. NOT before. That should be basic common sense to any independence supporters.
I consider the website ‘Wings Over Scotland’ to be the enemy within and they’ve already started the ball rolling by publishing ‘SNP bad’ material today and it’ll get even worse as time goes on, and it won’t take much for their poison to spread since they’re doing the Unionists’ job for them. Genuine independence supporters MUST combat these stories as we approach independence. The stories and stuff may well be real and genuine but this is NOT the time to be spreading them if we want people onside.
I think that websites like Wings are going to be a huge problem in our quest for independence unless we nip them in the bud now.
I don’t have any influence apart from mumping my gums on here but people like Craig Murray, Alex Salmond and others DO have influence and they should maybe speak to websites like Wings and others and tell them to keep a lid on it until we get independence.
Bad news travels faster than good.
Wings Over Scotland has shown clarity through the fog of war.
I’m sure Stu, and the rest of us, have nothing to fear from a mere Mist …
Huxley, Orwell,Kafka, Atwood could not come up with Dystopian literature as Fkt up as this!
“@Pacman – Abody loves Bowie in one incarnation or another, but he was never ‘an actor’, was he?”
He was, but a cracked one…
‘Hell hath no fury like a mist scorned…’
link to telegraph.co.uk
The Daily Dreadnought copying Stu’s article almost word for word without bothering to acknowledge the source.
Poor form, Telegraph, very poor form.
” Maybe some mad scientist collected the DNA of Thomas Jerome Newton and created Mist001 but it went horribly wrong and we are left with the fallout ? ”
He’s the man who would have fell to Earth , but Earth saw him coming and body swerved him . Now he just floats about like a bit of cosmic debris , entering and inevitably being ejected from the gravitational field of every Indy blog , destined to end-up a pebble on the desolate plains of Planet PayPaul . Home at last
Concerning the above comment on the subject of another possible Keatings’ charge into the Valley of Death…
Whatever his motivation is now, there is no point whatsoever in duplicating the legal effort…two voices is better than one is just rhetoric and is likely to achieve nothing of any value. If the might of the UK Treasury is so strong then raising a few hundred thousand and spending it on more highly paid lawyers will not pose any challenge to a govt that can effectively create its own money. If Keatings’ legal team want to provide their services for free in favour of the national cause then have it. Likewise any important research his team has should be made freely and widely available. This must be a national effort now, not a means to further any individual’s end. This is not meant to be unkind. I just cannot see the utility of it.
On the other hand, people might like to donate to Mark Hirst’s fund before considering other deserving causes. Scotland’s corrupt power structures deserves a bloody nose and this corruption will survive independence intact. So make it happen now, don’t waste money and effort on futile gestures.
Who is behind all this?
What is the true purpose of all this?
Pack up your troubles in your old quiltbag . . .
This is one symptom of why it is that nothing anywhere in the West works in any practical sense any more.
We are stuck in an infantile culture where even those supposedly at the top of the hierarchical decision making pyramid are operating not in reality but in their own fantasy world – witness the bizarre conversation more fitting to a fourth form prep school common room at the G7 meeting earlier this week.
The metaphor which seems most appropriate in describing the Western World right now is that of a computer which has crashed/or is in the process of crashing and the start up disk has
long been discarded as an unnecessary cost preventing any possibility of internally generated recovery.
Question Time- For me it’s a game of spot the BBC propaganda against Scotland.
An anti independence chap in the audience tears into Scotlands poor health service- better than Englands, drug deaths- which Westminster won’t devolve to help us fight it and Education is poor- possibly thru Covid closing our schools for years.
Low and behold Angus Robertson identifies the man as a Tory candidate in his area.
Isn’t it strange BBC that these plants always get the scarce tickets for the show and always
get picked out at random from the audience.
A panel member was suggesting we don’t want or need a referendum and for one time only on the show the camera focuses on an audience member shaking their head in a No we don’t want one.
A head shake may only take 2 or 3 seconds so spotting it and switching cameras to highlight it seems impossible to me.
However if it’s being staged it would be easy to record the whole thing.
A fair attempt by Robertson but so many comments should have been shot down.
Another plant said a referendum would split the country?
What like horrific Brexit at 48/52% or in England now half Tory half Labour.
A couple of times Scots were labelled as having the UKs current highest Covid infection rate
Could we have pointed out pro rata England has the Highest Covid Death rate.
Which one would you choose?
It was an open goal to ask if Scotland could do better than a PM who has delivered the Brexit disaster, 10% plus inflation, 5 mortgage increases in 7 months, £2 per litre diesel, home energy bills expected to reach £3,000.
Why is right wing shill from the Spectator Fraser Nelson on the show more than any SNP politician?
It will be invigorating to see the BBC sent back to London after independence.
I must admit ,I lost interest after FART and that’s just cause its a funny (not fanny) word.
Determining the future state…
“The direction of national economies.”
“The priorities of societies.”
“The nature of business models.”
“The management of a global commons.”
link to weforum.org
The US origins of identitarianism aka woke and its virtual take over of academic and political discourse are well documented, outside the anglophone world the cult has little cultural traction. However, its entry point into other cultures are social media platforms which promote public societal/sexual deviance as normative in a «developed» diverse community.
These platforms targeting the young and immature present «gender diversity» as fact and not as a novel particularist psycho-construct without foundation in observable reality.
The sexual neurosis theories of Freud, the perverted confections of so called sexologist Kinsey, and the racist anthropologist of «primitive» societies Margaret Meade and many more of the type are contributors to this mashup of pseudo science.
Woke capitalism, the atomize and control new order capitalism, alone benefits from these fantasies. Nations, peoples, ancient cultures and objective reasoning do not.
Seriously what is wrong with these people?
link to euroweeklynews.com
Is it only me or do other folk get a feeling of narcissism, hostility, and dishonesty from this Primer? I must be an old FART!
robbo says:
1 July, 2022 at 8:58 am
Seriously what is wrong with these people?
link to euroweeklynews.com
What Monty Python took the piss with in 1970 has now become reality 52 years later: tinyurl.com/54d5muez
‘Woke capitalism, the atomize and control new order capitalism, alone benefits from these fantasies. Nations, peoples, ancient cultures and objective reasoning do not.’
Indeed. I’d go further and say that this ideology is absolutely anti-people, anti-nation, anti-culture and is obviously at odds with objective reasoning. It is specifically designed to undermine people and nations.
The vast majority of ordinary people on this planet have little outside of what their own community offers, whether that be local community or broader nation. That’s social capital.
Social capital is the antithesis of financial capital. It is the intangible good will of a community towards each other that arises from shared and/or compatible cultures and belief systems.
Earlier I posted something about Whole Foods explaining why diversity in stores actually (along with other issues) lowers the chance of unionisation.
The corporate world is now at a scale where many companies are actually wealthier than nations and the only thing that inhibits their ability to do pretty much whatever they like is the strong nation state with sovereign institutions and a basically united and aware population. Funnily enough woke capital (among others) has a term for that situation that they are not hesitant to use.
Atomised, overly individualistic people desperate for the next wage (or welfare payment) and/or people split into as many hyper politicised groups as possible (while being forced to share the same space) is the key. The cherry on top is when those same people and groups only see their already utterly subverted political system as their means of relief.
But lets not fall into the trap of thinking that any of the alternatives to what we have now, those that can be freely spoken about in a TV broadcast or taught in university, is anything other than a different configuration of the same basic idea.
Been mulling over Niklas announcement and the mixed messages sent re over 50% of the votes v majority of seats won…
Mia has done an article on it over on Yours For Scotland.
My thoughts…
By throwing in the ‘over 50% of the vote’ into the FPTP franchise (a moving of the goal posts she has no legal authority to do, and a dangerous precident to set), she has given the SNP a chance to win a majority of seats…. and then… do nothing. Sadly, something they have lots of practice in doing.
The next part of their plan will either be to nobble the voting franchise, so that only an SNP vote will be recognised as a plebicite indy vote, and/or go all out war on Alba (and other Indy candidates) and accused them of ‘splitting the indy vote’.
It does indicate though that Plebicite GE is the British Establishments more favoured route. (It will keep the SNP in power, and the current SNP will keep us in the Union). Though no doubt they will have game planned the Ref option also.
It also means, that if the vote is interfered with, Scotland can be allowed a ‘win’, but not a victory. Very, very clever.
So, we need to win, and win big. And as we work alongside our SNP colleagues, we need to ensure the voters have a plan B option for if/when the SNP stallwarts drive with the handbrake on, spike the guns and pull their punches.
Daisy Walker @9.53am.
I can’t stand Sturgeon she done terrible things to the indy movement and to Craig, and a few other die-hard indy supporters, however if there’s even the slightest chance that we could gain independence between now and 2024 (The GE) then I think we should go along with it, I’m not saying Sturgeon won’t stab us in the back again, but at the very least she’s making all the right noises which hopefully will galvanise the indy movement god knows it needs it.
I’m with Craig and Alex on this one.
Daisy Walker,
The SNP had already said that a vote for the SNP in a plebiscitary election would be counted as a vote for independence and I think they meant it.
This is completely unsatisfactory not to mention piss poor tactics if they really want independence.
Speaking of piss poor tactics, why would you have a Plan A and a Plan B where you immediately relinquish any power to force the hand of your opponent’s by telling them that the secondary plan isn’t as good because we are going to make it worse for ourselves in a specific and limited way.
@Daisy Walker 9.53 am
Winning a majority of seats in a FPTP franchise will only be regarded as legitimate by the international community is it is accompanied by >50% of the vote. It’s not a wizard wheeze from Nikla, it’s not caving in to the unionists and it’s certainly not “something she has no legal authority to do”, it’s simple common sense.
The 2015 GE gave the SNP 56 of 59 MPs on 49.97% of the vote. It’s not rocket science. That isn’t a majority. Why do you say only an SNP vote will be recognised as a plebiscitary vote? There’s absolutely no basis for that assertion.
All the other pro-independence parties have to do is say that they support the plebiscitary mandate of the GE and their votes will be totalled with those of the SNP, Greens, Alba, ISP, SSP and whoever else signs up. Problem solved. That way, all those of us who don’t plan to vote SNP, and would as soon campaign shoulder to shoulder with Tories as the SNP, can still vote for independence.
A plebiscitary election should be the preferred choice of anyone serious about independence at this point, because every dog in the street knows that the odds are against the SC finding in the SG’s favour. Even if they do, we also know that the indy movement as a whole is not united as it was in 2014. The “wheesht for indy” impulse and SNP authoritarianism is much more likely to rear its ugly head in a campaign for a binary referendum than in a campaign for a GE which is headlined beforehand as explicitly plebiscitary.
You don’t have to like Sturgeon or the SNP to see that the idea of a plebiscitary election to seek a majority of votes is a good one, in fact probably the only one that will lead to independence in the short to medium term.
People also need to stop spouting this “we need to win and we need to win big” pish. You’re playing in to the britnats hands. A majority is a majority. 50% + 1 is the ONLY hurdle that matters. 52% was good enough for brexit.
Exploring the lit. of sexual identitarianism the notion that being very young or immature is no barrier to genital sex is suggested. Personal adult taste, no matter how weird, is ok to reveal or practise on the «willing» or curious young as part of the education process. It’s normal and what grown ups do, it’s really fun.
The transposing of idiosyncratic sexual fantasy into the normative is dangerous mind games.
Many institutions, secular and religious, now give sanction to such behaviours as part of the rainbow of human make up and ought to have their place in the public forum. Even in the libertine excesses of ancient Rome behaviours of the sort had their appointed place.
Roman commentators were given to cruel satire in sexual and socio-political matters. But then they had a sense of the frailty of civilization and the ease with which it can be destroyed.
@ Breastplate and ROS, sorry I don’t know what you mean.
My plan is simple, I’m going to work my arse off to ensure the voters understand the need for Scottish Indy.
I’m going to support and work alongside my SNP (and other Indy campaigner) brethren.
I’m going to remain in and part of the Alba party and if the SNP MP’s, MSP’s drop the ball in any way throughout this campaign, ensure there are able and credible Alba candidates who the voters can place their indy vote on. That’s my plan B.
What is clear (to me, anyway) is the mixed messages Nikla and Swinney put out re the Plebecite Indy GE have already muddied the water.
Win a majority of seats, but take ‘only’ 49% of the vote and suddenly you have a win, but not a victory. The SNP would have a mild mannered mandate, but not a definitive instruction. Given their track record I’d suggest the current leadership crop would love nothing better.
But, as Alex did, I’m not taking any ‘ifs or buts’ we must win, and we must win big.
I’m making no apology for pointing out the possible mechanics behind Nikla and Swinneys recent mixed messages. And I won’t apologise either, for pointing out, that at this stage of the game, if they are playing with a straight bat, that is a fuck up neither of them should be forgiven for.
And once again I will point out a fundamental truth. The FPTP voting system, like all voting systems, is intransigent. Deliberately so.
It is most assuredly NOT Niklas place (nor Boris!), and not within her powers, to move the goal posts on what it constitutes, or where its winning lines are. And if she can do it, so can the UK, do you really want to set that precident for Perfidious Albion?
@ Andy Ellis. Dear Andy, I just scroll by your comments. Just so you know. Kind regards.
@ Mariana at 2.22: “Pack up your troubles in your old quiltbag…”
Very good. Laughing out loud!
@Daisy Walker 10.42 am
The light to some is an unwelcome friend.
It’s not a sin to be ignorant Daisy, it IS a sin to be as proud of it as you appear to be.
Ellis,
At the moment we seem to have Schrödinger’s Scotland.
Scotland is a country, Scotland isn’t a country.
Scotland is a colony, Scotland isn’t a colony.
Scottish people are sovereign, the Scottish people aren’t sovereign.
Scotland is part of an international treaty, Scotland isn’t part of an international treaty.
You’ve already equated Scotland’s position with that of Quebec and Catalonia.
Is Scotland’s position really the same?
Again, you state what the international community will accept and won’t accept, the truth of the matter is, you don’t know.
I believe Scotland’s position in these matters are unique and I believe some in the international community will be incredibly happy to welcome Scotland back into the international community and likewise there will be some who wouldn’t like to welcome Scotland back into the international community.
The main countries that wouldn’t like to welcome Scotland back into the international community is perhaps, England and their dwindling band of friends.
Also, if any countries don’t feel they can recognise Scotland as a country, then perhaps they can offer a referendum to their people whether or not to recognise Scotland, why not.
I think we should kick up as much dust as possible when it comes to fighting Westminster.
Sorry Daisy,
I agree with you.
I also think that if we win by seats, then Scotland would be in a position to organise a confirmatory referendum itself.
That would need to be explained beforehand, though.
@ Breastplate Thanks.
@ Andy Ellis. Dear Andy, I just scroll by your comments. Just so you know. Kind regards.
@ Breastplate: so much needs to be explained as the public has been brainwashed for years by the current SNP as well as the MSM so they all think we need a referendum and they all think we need Westminster agreement or else the international community won’t recognise Scotland. They are also frightened by the thought of a “hard” border.
If the public knew that our two constitutions are irreconcilable but were preserved, along with our entirely different legal systems, by the Treaty of Union then they would know that we are two separate countries and would realise that we are entitled to withdraw from the Treaty at any time.
The UK had to register Scotland and England as separate countries with the UN because we are – but they don’t want the public to know this!!
The public would realise that we already have a “hard” border but everyone copes just fine. Scottish foods and energy etc trade across the border without problem despite our entirely different legal systems – companies seem to cope.
@Breastplate 10.50 pm
The cases of Quebec, Scotland and Catalonia are often viewed as similar. Nobody is saying they are identical, each has their own specific issues, but there are commonalities too. That’s hardly an exceptional point to make.
International law isn’t definitive, so yes, we have to use judgement and analysis. So far there hasn’t been a successful independence movement where part of a liberal democracy has established an independent state. Quebec has failed twice, Scotland once and Catalonia once.
You’re right: Scotland’s case is unique, but that doesn’t get us very far. EVERY case is unique. Quebec’s situation isn’t like ours or Catalonia’s. There are however broad issues of constitutional, legal and political importance that inform any discussion of all such situations, even if the details aren’t directly comparable.
Thus, the findings of the Canadian Supreme Court in relation to the Clarity Act aren’t directly relevant to the Scottish situation, because (obviously) Quebec isn’t Scotland. There are however overarching themes that flow out of the way the Canadian Federal Government, Quebecois separatists and the Canadian Supreme Court analysed the fall out from Quebec’s two referendums, one of which came within 54,288 votes of success (the No vote was 50.58%).
Scotland is a country. Scotland isn’t a colony. Scotland’s people are sovereign, and so are every other people. It’s easy to say the soundbites, but they don’t equate to a general recognition of independence by the international community.
We know in broad brush terms what will be required for such recognition, partly due to analysis of situations like Quebec and Catalonia, and also due to comparisons with other “classes” of self determination which differ from our cases, such as the former Yugoslav republics, the former Soviet Republics and others like Timor L’Este, South Sudan and places which have failed to gain recognition like Northern Cyprus, Somaliland, Transnistria, South Ossetia, the Saharawi Republic and others.
You’re right: lots of countries will welcome Scottish independence, but some will not. The number who don’t will increase sharply if they regard it as the result of UDI, a process they regard as illegitimate, or not reflecting the majority will of the Scottish people.
That’s why the kind of criteria set out by the Canadian Supreme Court – while by no means definitive because they haven’t (yet?) been tested by another referendum in Quebec – are important and have resulted in a lot of legal and scholarly discussion. The requirement for a clear majority, in response to a clear question is still not definitive and has been left (purposefully?) vague, but it was associated with an obligation on the part of both parties to negotiate a settlement in good faith if those two requirements were met, and a recognition that in the end the resolution of the issue was one of politics, not law.
The Canadian Supreme Court refused to answer the 3rd of the 3 questions referred to it by the Federal Government (on whether Canadian or international law took precedence if there was a conflict between the two on whether the Quebec National Assembly had the right to secede unilaterally), on the basis that in their view there was no such conflict. The CSS held that unilateral secession was not available to a province under the Canadian constitution, and also that the right to UDI only applied tin colonial contexts (a view which is widely held but also widely disputed by scholars, lawyers and constitutional experts, as well as politicians).
The overwhelming likelihood is – however hard some of the nutter fringe in here insist otherwise – that Scottish independence will only be recognised in response to a clear majority, in response to a clear question/mandate, and preferably after an agreed process. If rump UK is clearly demonstrated as not acting in good faith and deliberately refusing to negotiate or place anti-democratic obstacles in our path, that that would strengthen our case, and the likelihood that we’d gain recognition even in the face of UK opposition or obstruction.
Republic @ 9.57
My back is so full of holes there is nowhere left to stick the knife again.
Alex has no option but to go along with this. He can’t afford to be seen to be divisive, he knows what’s going on, and he’s in it for the longer game. He’s also found a way of deflecting the knife which has escaped us lesser mortals.
Craig was one of my greatest heroes until he gave his views on trans issues. I’m very sad about not being able to trust his judgement any more.
Ellis,
“Scotland is a country. Scotland isn’t a colony. Scotland’s people are sovereign, and so are every other people. It’s easy to say the soundbites, but they don’t equate to a general recognition of independence by the international community.”
I agree with this, although I would question whether Scotland’s position would equate or not to a general recognition of independence because again, we don’t know.
The international community hasn’t had to deal with the specifics of Scotland’s case, it’s perhaps not immaterial what the similarities are among some of the other places you mention but we will find similarities anywhere we look.
But let’s say Scotland does, after sending a majority of our representatives to Westminster, start negotiations for self determination, we have a certain amount of the international community applauding us, a certain amount shaking their heads and there’s always a certain amount sitting on the fence.
What could we do to get more of the international community on board with us?
@Daisy Walker 11.18 am
“@ Andy Ellis. Dear Andy, I just scroll by your comments. Just so you know. Kind regards.”
Dear Daisy. I like using your unreasoned rants as opportunities for educated discussion amongst those with more open minds.
It always makes me laugh when the intellectually low voltage ostentatiously feel the need to advertise the fact they scroll past the posts of the better informed participants in the thread.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks 🙂
We’re not declaring UDI, we are re-convening the Scottish Parliament after a few hundred years – that is a unilateral action as there’s only 1 political entity involved?
England has no right to prevent us rowing in behind our own Parliament.
Gordon Currie,
Surely there has to be a statement to the international community that Scotland is open for business and we will be doing that business on our own terms?
I think that would be a Declaration of Independence.
Unless we aim to do with others, it will be a unilateral declaration.
I would argue that no matter how you re-convene the Scottish Parliament, a Declaration of Independence is to be expected.
The object lesson is Scotland being taken out of the EU by a non Scottish majority.
The non Scottish majority and London gov. have demonstrated they couldn’t care less about Scottish sensibilities.
What’s so hard about returning «the favour» regarding their precious Union and their puffed up worldview.
The belt, braces and corsets SNP needs a new stylist at court.
All too politically «cis» for comfort.
On a lighter note .
It’s been confirmed the plague has reached levels not seen since before the magic serum was rolled out , yep works wonders eh ?.
Aye its all these fekers that havent taken the magic juice thats spreading it .
Wee problem the ones who haven’t been jabbed cant travel so whos spreading it ? .
Bawjaws answer to the rising infections GET JABBED yep that will work , Wakey fkn Wakey its a con the last two years have been the biggest medical failure in history
As Westminster attempts to override the European Convention of Human Rights in the UK with a British Bill of Rights so it can continue human trafficking refugees to Rwanda, it is the European Court of Human Rights who yesterday stepped in to seek a last minute stay of execution for British Mercenaries Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner.
Prior to the war, Ruskiland was affiliated to the ECHR, but was expelled while in the process of leaving in March 2022.
Point 1, I’d rather have my life in the hands of the ECHR with 46 member states, rather than some dodgy British Bill of Rights with 1 member state.
Point 2, Don’t be too hasty to sever links with Nations in dispute or at war as a knee jerk reaction, because however strained those communications might be, those channels can save lives and “perhaps” facilitate progressive resolutions.
How can this be taken seriously, I mean, I couldn’t get past the word FART. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Who thought it would be a good idea to appropriate the word FART!
Yes I am immature and this will keep me laughing all day.
Breastplate
I agree, we would be declaring our independence by resuming our place in the world as a sovereign Nation, the point I was trying (badly it seems!) is that we’re not declaring independence from a state of dependency as rUK has no call on us.
Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence
Gordon Currie,
Agreed.
I’ve noted that we have been conditioned to a certain extent that UDI comes with negative connotations.
We need to start thinking differently and realise that it will most likely be a necessity of an independent Scotland.
@Breastplate 11.59 am
“I agree with this, although I would question whether Scotland’s position would equate or not to a general recognition of independence because again, we don’t know.”
No, of course we don’t know because it’s a situation without precedent. We won’t definitively know the outcome until it happens. Such is life. There is however no evidence to support the oft quoted assertion that Scotland is “different” or that our situation is sine qua non because of the Treaties of Union, Claim of Right, Declaration of Arbroath. The international community and international law will be agnostic about them. They won’t prioritise Scotland’s rights over Catalonia’s or Quebec’s because they don’t have equivalent things in their past.
What could we do to get more of the international community on board with us?
Ensure that the majority of seats is backed up with a clear majority of the vote. That way, when we declare independence on the basis of a refusal of the British nationalist state and its Supreme Court in (presumably?) 2022 or 2023 to acknowledge the legislative competence of Holyrood to hold a self determination referendum which has a majority mandate from Scottish voters in, and a victory in plebiscitary election in 2024 or any other year, it is much more likely that most if not all states will recognise our declaration.
Even then, some may not like Spain, Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus etc which have denied Kosovo recognition on the basis they regard UDI as illegitimate for their own internal reasons.
Of course is we had a nationalist government worth its salt (as if!) they’d already be softening the UN, EU, EFTA up and targeting particular “friendly” countries up about what is going to happen in the event the SC finds against the Scottish Government and making the case for plebiscitary elections being not only a reasonable response to the britnats breach of good faith (and the 2014 precedent), but the ONLY practicable measure. The SG should also be ramping up the pressure in the run up to the SC decision and saying that if the court finds against them, they will recall their MPs from Westminster pending the outcome of plebiscitary elections.
Sarah.
Interesting point you made that I was not aware of,
That Scotland was registered as a separate Country from England in the UN.
Which raise’s a point of political constitutional law between Scotland and England.,
Why is NS asking another court of law ( Supreme court in this case) in a different country to rule if a registered country ( Scotland in this case ) as registered in the UN can become be a separate independent Country.
If it is already registered as a separate country by Englands/ UK parliament.
Yes there are political ties that and finances to end the joint treaty,
But surely being a separately registered country places us ahead of the actual game being played by the SNP and Westminster.does it not?
Pretty much every one agrees that the Scots are Sovereign, that the Scots are in a voluntary treaty of union, That Scots have the claim of right sewn into the articles of that said treaty.
And now we learn we Scotland, are registered as a separate country in the UN.
@Breastplate 1.42 pm
I’ve noted that we have been conditioned to a certain extent that UDI comes with negative connotations.
We need to start thinking differently and realise that it will most likely be a necessity of an independent Scotland.
UDI does come with negative connotations and – unfortunately – consequences. If you don’t think so ask those who have tried it. Most have failed, and those who have succeeded have only done so after prolonged periods of conflict. If you’re in a situation like the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which nobody in the world recognises except Turkey, it has real life implications for the putative independent country and for its citizens. You don’t have access to international institutions, collaboration and funding which is available to fully recognised countries.
Even “partially” recognised countries like Kosovo aren’t in an ideal situation: it’s good that most EU states and major powers recognise Kosovo, but the fact that some states refuse to do so has real impact on the citizens of the countries involved.
In Scotland’s case, we already had the Project Fear stories about Spain blocking EU membership in the event of what they regarded as an “illegitimate” exercise of self determination. Other EU states with internal minority issues like Slovakia and Romania have similar concerns.
UDI is a weapon of last resort, generally only operative in cases of violence, ethnic conflict or de-colonisation. It’s vanishingly unlikely that Scotland will need to use a UDI, or that it would be widely accepted if it did.
sarah says:
1 July, 2022 at 11:25 am
The UK had to register Scotland and England as separate countries with the UN because we are – but they don’t want the public to know this!!
Proof please.
Ellis,
I know how you think we should go about achieving Scottish independence.
My question was after, when the international community was presented with Scotland as an independent country by way of a majority pro independence MPs at Westminster.
Using your PhD in international relations, you have been hired by the Scottish Government to convince some of the more concerned members of the international community that they should recognise Scotland’s independence.
What would you do?
Surely it wouldn’t be to agree with them and say to them “that’s not the way I would have done it, so don’t recognise Scotland as an independent nation?
Can you think of any reasons that could help sway some in the international community?
Or would you argue that there are no reasons?
These are genuine questions for wargaming a particular scenario.
I have not heard this being spoken about by any ( repeat ) any of the ” yes” leaders or movement,
That in of itself is legal recognition.
Ellis,
To answer your next comment.
Can you see anyway at all that an independent Scotland won’t make a Declaration of Independence?
If so, explain it.
Andy Ellis says:
1 July, 2022 at 1:55 pm
@Breastplate 11.59 am
No, of course we don’t know because it’s a situation without precedent. We won’t definitively know the outcome until it happens. Such is life. There is however no evidence to support the oft quoted assertion that Scotland is “different” or that our situation is sine qua non because of the Treaties of Union, Claim of Right, Declaration of Arbroath. The international community and international law will be agnostic about them.
—————-
Well ain’t that quaint. Funny how a treaty signed by whigs and elite and not by the people in a fecking dungeon whereby most who signed Yes to Union scarpered doon to England before they got strung up only matters in the case when it suits England – THE TREATY MATTERS eh?
Everything England and Scotland do or have done the past 300+ years is based on it(the treaty) and fine ye ken it!
BUT WE’VE TO FORGET ABOOT IT EH ANDY
Catalonia did not hold a equalising treaty of union with Spain,
There are no legal comparisons between Catalonia and Scotlands position,
And we are not A Federal union,
@James Che
Yes there are political ties that and finances to end the joint treaty,
But surely being a separately registered country places us ahead of the actual game being played by the SNP and Westminster.does it not?
We’re going to need to see receipts for this claimed “registration” and some back up other than your (almost certainly) flawed assertion that it means what you think it means.
The UN may very well accept that Scotland is a country by dint of its history and instiutions and the nature of the UK as a “union state” as distinct from other parts of the world that have either never been countries, or which lack our separate institutions, but that doesn’t mean they will give Scotland special treatment not available to say, Catalonia, Quebec or anywhere else with a self-determination movement.
The fact we have an international football team and Quebec and Catalonia don’t, doesn’t make us particularly special when it comes to deciding whose claim to self determination is more convincing.
Hi James Che.
I have tried umpteen times to find a source at the UN for the phrase, “two countries, a principality and a province” without success.
It is mentioned by Grousebeater, back in 2016.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Maybe you can try to source it?
Mark Boyle,
I don’t know if it was confirmed or not but I remember from a few years ago that it had been said that the UK was listed as 2 countries, a province and a principality.
I’m not sure how you would go about finding out if it was true or not.
Well done Bdtt
@Robert Graham (1.02) –
Don’t know if you’ve ever seen the video of James Corden doing a musical number with Arianna Grande bigging-up Tony Fauci, but here’s the link for it.
(WARNING: Not for the faint-hearted. Contains scenes which may spark retching and/or lodge themselves in the long-term memory.)
link to youtube.com
Brian Doonthetoon says:
1 July, 2022 at 2:31 pm
Hi James Che.
I have tried umpteen times to find a source at the UN for the phrase, “two countries, a principality and a province” without success.
I’d confirm seeing it, but source I’d have to look for. I’ll see what I can do…
I feel like I’ve suffered a stroke trying to read that word salad.
Sorry – I tried. The shutters came down, my lights went out & I found myself wondering what’s for tea tonight.
Care in the community gone horribly wrong for these nutters.
Please gawd – make this shite stop!
More unionist arguments from Ellis, I see.
I am pulled irresistibly to a certain conclusion when someone on here argues that having a national football team, a rich and distinct history, nationhood enshrined in historical documents, etc., etc., means nothing as far as international recognition is concerned.
Again, at the very least, these are unionist arguments and you very much are starting to quack like a duck, my friend.
Breeks.
And anyone else that could trace any mention of the Two countries, a principality and a province, it
Would be extremely interesting for expanding Scottish independence and recognition perhaps.
I will see if i can find anything on it as well,
The more the merrier.
Hatuey.
You are funny
James Che, Breeks, BDTT et al –
The very fact that some Holy Grail of constitutional relevance is in any way mysterious speaks volumes – can’t help wondering whether or not Alex Salmond, Craig Murray etc were ever made aware of this. We can be sure that Sturgeon won’t have civil servants tripping over one another to find the thing.
Breeks.
Brian doonthetoon.
Much appreciated from all of us I am pretty sure.
Ian Brotherhood.
I tend to agree that the mysteries disappearing of constitutional infomatican be likened to magic.
And it is amazing how many lawyers are constitutionally ignorant. In England and Scotland.
Ok I found it I think.
Type into google,
Two countries a principality and a province.
Use no full stops or comma’s.
And it automatically came up as first choice in wikipedia, under United Nations.
Hi James Che.
That Wikipedia page –
link to simple.wikipedia.org
doesn’t have a source either. In fact it has “source?” meaning that it is not yet substantiated.
I wonder if the ordinary people of Wale realise that they to are now a country.
I bet no one told them either.
So according to the United Nations Scotland is already a recognised Country.
Brian doonthetoon.
I will do further checking.
Meanwhile you can leisurely view all the comments regarding this matter from all the other sources down below that.
Even the Guardian had a peace on it,
I can’t find it, but I might have a image on it on an old tablet.
Thing is, I seem to remember there was a problem with it; it wasn’t the slam dunk smoking gun people imagined. Something like it was a description of the UK, not a definition of the UK.
A good place to hunt might be Electronic Scotland..
link to electricscotland.com
How’s this for a read… nearly 30 years ago.
link to electricscotland.com
“For more than a hundred years the Scottish people have been attempting to have their ancient national Parliament recalled. To date, no fewer than 34 bills and motions to this effect have been introduced in the Westminster Parliament. The overwhelming majority of the Scottish members supported these measures. Despite this fact, and in flagrant contempt of the international law governing the self-determination of peoples, every one of them was either killed by procedural chicanery, or simply voted down “democratically” by the huge English majority there.”
@ Breeks at 5.26pm
Wow! How unexpected to read about that… (not)
It’s almost like the game is stacked against us by some kind of democratic deficit.
Thank goodness we have elected such sharp and competent politicians that are totes focused on returning Scotland to self-governing status.
I mean, they’d never sway from that cause or be distracted and derail momentum by engaging in some kind of twisted reality involving genderwoowoo…
Oh, that was quite the lager buzz I was on there for a fleeting moment, but I’m back in the room now…
Breastplate says:
1 July, 2022 at 2:32 pm
Mark Boyle,
I don’t know if it was confirmed or not but I remember from a few years ago that it had been said that the UK was listed as 2 countries, a province and a principality.
I’m not sure how you would go about finding out if it was true or not.
As it turns out to have come from Grousebeater all along, I really should not have been surprised that James Che was all over it …
Hi Mark Boyle.
No, it didn’t come from Grousebeater. It is in a report from the International Standards Organisation (ISO) in 2013.
Go to this link:-
link to iso.org
and scroll down to page 27. You will find:-
ENG—England————————country
NIR—Northern Ireland—————province
SCT—Scotland————————country
WLS—Wales[Cymru GB-CYM]—
PrincipalitycountryIt was updated in 2015 to recognise Wales’ upgrade to country.
@Hatuey 4.07 pm
More unionist arguments from Ellis, I see.
They’re not unionist arguments, they’re common sense arguments. Arguments don’t have political affiliations, any more than infants have religions. The things you refer to may make it more obvious and self evident that Scotland is a country, and distinct from some other polities or peoples seeking self determination, but the international community still doesn’t care, not will it prioritise Scotland’s claims over those of say Catalonia or Quebec.
It may be an article of faith amongst the Brigadoon types that Scotland is so special that we will be wafted to the sunny uplands of independence whereas the poor unfortunate Catalans, or Quebecois or anyone else are doomed to second class status because they don’t have their own national football team, but it ain’t necessarily so.
The international community is going to find other factors than a colourful history more convincing. Being a chippy Scot screeching “Wha’s like us? Damn few’ and they’re A’ deid” isn’t really going to cut it, neither is trying – however indirectly – trying to infer that those making common sense arguments, which are those of the mainstream and overwhelmingly likely to be those that prevail in any reasonable future scenario, are somehow closet yoons, or advancing “unionist” arguments.
@Brian & others 6.22 pm
the list also includes famously independent countries like, Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Saint Helena / Ascension / Tristan da Cunha, Sint Maarten…
….oh, wait!
WHO typed that it was a list of independent countries???
If you read the preamble to the newsletter, you will find:-
Changes in the list of subdivision names and code elements
The ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency1) (ISO 3166/MA) has agreed to effect changes to the header information, the list of subdivision names or the code elements of various countries listed in ISO 3166-2:2007 Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions — Part 2: Country subdivision code.
Note: “various countries” – not “independent countries”.
Therefore, your last comment is garbage, because you typed what you wanted the report to say, not what it actually said.
Ellis,
I think the point of this is to gather any evidence or information that makes Scotland’s case easier.
It’s up to the Unionists to counter it, not us.
If the abc islands want to petition for independence, we’ll good for them not it doesn’t negate the argument for Scotland.
*well not we’ll
link to tiktok.com
Oh well. Wots the bet it was the TQI blah section that gave him a hard time no doubt.
Welsh independence campaigners will hold their first indy march in three years this weekend, adding that the announcement of a new Scottish indyref has boosted the Welsh momentum.
If nothing comes out of our proposed indyref at least we’ll have given our Celtic cousins a wee boost.
For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD – Gibson’s law
Scotland has defined borders already.
Scotland has a permanent population already.
Scotland has a Government already.
Scotland already has a functioning legal system. Scots law is already a party to all treaties & international law issues via membership of UK.
The notion that the ‘international community‘ won’t recognise a declaration of independence by Scotland unless Andy Ellis gets a boner is quite a bizarre place to try and hang your hat, yet still he persists despite the massive size differential.
Ex-DUP leader Arlene Foster is seething with anger that Sturgeon didn’t curtsy when she met the queen recently, Foster took to social media to vent her spleen on the act of treason.
Meanwhile accounts have shown that the queen overspent taxpayers cash by around £102 million with add in’s it came to around £14 million, (£12 million) to Prince Andrew’s victim I assume, no sweat as they say. The royals had the chutzpah to say that they were extremely aware of the cost of living crisis, aye right.
Meanwhile “Queen’s Consent” has allowed the queens lawyers to inspect and change (for the queen only) 67 laws made at Holyrood.
Oh well that’s it we’d better call the whole thing off (if its on in the first place that is). For if Scotland becomes independent, the MI5 outlet the Daily Telegraph has said Scots will be banned from ordering luxury hampers from Fortnum & Mason department store in London.
Not only that if we decide to handle our own affair via independence we’ll be denied English sausages, Mussels, unfrozen Lasagne and Marks & Spencers hampers, if we then vote to join the EU.
I identify as a supermarket, and have done since I was Lidl.
At least Joanna Cherry is pleased she said that it was hugely satisfying with Regards to Sturgeon’s announcement on Tuesday.
Cherry added that it was particularly sweet that the strategy that she had long advocated is now part of the indy plan. Cherry added that testing the case in law can only move the envelope forward even if the Supreme court knocks the indyref route on the head.
Well I hope she and us for that matter are happy bunnies on the indyfront come next year, but I won’t be holding my breath, and I doubt Cherry will as well.
@Scott 7:02pm
It is useful to consider Scotland as a defined territory with a permanent population (a people, or peoples) and a form of government, ie a nation but not a state.
UN Charter
‘Article 1 s2
To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
Article 73
Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of these territories are paramount, and accept as a sacred trust the obligation to promote to the utmost, within the system of international peace and security established by the present Charter, the well being of the inhabitants of these territories and, to this end:
1. …
2. to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement;
3. …
4. …
5. …
Article 74
Members of the United Nations also agree that their policy in respect of the territories to which this Chapter applies, no less than in respect of their metropolitan areas, must be based on the general principle of good-neighbourliness, due account being taken of the interests and well-being of the rest of the world, in social, economic, and commercial matters.’
The question concerns international law, not the law of the predecessor State. All declarations of independence are likely to be contrary to – or at least not provided for under – the law of the predecessor State.
As Scott says, Scotland is a recognisable country regardless of whether the UK has registered it as such with the UN or not. If the UK had registered us it would be the icing on the cake as it would make the Unionists look even sillier than they already do.
My source for the UN angle was something I read recently but made no note of who/where. If I find it I will let you know. Thanks to all who have been scurrying round trying to provide the proof – very kind of you! Apologies for making it necessary.
Why do they have someone who is illiterate as a “Learning and Development Lead”?
Hopefully Rev will make some kind of announcement when he reckons we can discuss the thing that we’re still not allowed to discuss.
In the meantime, if you want a decent source of information with plenty of references to written material in MSM and elsewhere, UK Column has been doing a consistently good job of supplying up-to-date detail.
Link to this afternoon’s episode:
link to ukcolumn.org
@ Ron McLean
link to un.org
Aye, there’s some crackers in all those pages of text that just jump out at you. The utter hypocrisy of certain things requiring attention whilst others don’t.
If the UN is so bothered about peace, it makes you question why so many of its big members get involved in so many fucking wars!
#FightingForPeace
And along the lines of what Ian Brotherhood mentioned the other day. I don’t recall ever being offered the chance to democratically elect any individual to, or have had any say in the policy development and actions of this significant global organisation.
So I’ve tae jist take whatever stuff they serve up as ok.
Likewise all these World Economic Forum members gregor’s listing on that old thread. Has anybody reading in ever been approached to join the WEF? What’s the credentials required to get asked or apply?
Scott 7:02pm
LMAO!!
@Dan –
Re the WEF, there was a screenshot recently of a ‘holding page’ for Nicola Sturgeon. So she may or may not be a ‘member’. (Perhaps they just haven’t told her yet?) And wee Greta Thunberg, she’s a member too. Probably Bono is as well…or if he isn’t he fekkin well should be.
It’s where all the big nobs hang out dontcha know?!
Dan 8:17pm
So true. The UN is a toothless American entity well past its use by date.
It gave Israel a huge chunk of land that wasn’t theirs to give away – hardly the bastions of peace.
Friday night on Wings is always great isn’t it!
🙂
Ach, maybe I jist need to form an account on the WEF and I can become a global mover and shaker. Though I’m guessing if the forum’s moderators and admins are all wokeys I’ll struggle to make any significant impact…
link to login.weforum.org
I don’t know why Pishy Pete & Co keep banging the ‘international recognition’ drum. Just more parasites hoping to cling onto the gravy train a little longer by placing yet more *insurmountable* challenges to meet for approval.
I think ‘Fuck Your constant rules of…
60% +
Permission from England
Westminster
The EU
The USA
NATO
The UN
The budgie at No56
Cancer & COVID have both been eradicated..
The 2nd coming..
Is a much faster route!
What did other Independent countries do?
The notion that the ‘international community‘ won’t recognise a declaration of independence by Scotland unless Andy Ellis gets a boner is quite a bizarre place to try and hang your hat, yet still he persists despite the massive size differential.
For the benefit of those whose brains haven’t been addled by obsessive stalking, the international community will recognise independence – whether by Scotland or anyone else – under certain specific circumstances. The circumstances include showing a clear majority in favour. It’s hardly rocket science.
Moonhowlers in here can bloviate on until the cows come home about how we can just declare UDI by saying so, but people whose screens aren’t covered in spittle or other substances like Scott’s know that it just ain’t so. I know Scott is abit of a creepy stalker, but despite his interest in my boner, I’m still never going to date him. 🙂
Bolox (Adjectival noun); a stark illustration of the lunacy that your independence movement has managed to create in just a few short years
Brian Doonthetoon says:
1 July, 2022 at 6:20 pm
Hi Mark Boyle.
No, it didn’t come from Grousebeater. It is in a report from the International Standards Organisation (ISO) in 2013.
Good find BDTT. 🙂
If Scotland met evey single criteria set out in international laws they’d only find some other drama to throw in. A neverendum.
Constant hoops to jump through & their biggest mouthpieces are supposedly independence supporter’s.
Scotland is either in a Union by consent or we aren’t. If we aren’t then they’ll have to explain why we aren’t.
Scotland can exercise democracy or it can’t.
If it can’t then they’ll have to explain why we can’t.
Until then I see no point in dragging in outside forces at this stage until it’s documented on paper.
Friday night on Wings is always great isn’t it!
It’s increasingly hilarious, granted. I haven’t seen this much sophomoric Brigadoon marxism since the 1980’s or the last issue of Bella.
The Byres Road Bolsheviki out in force. I just figured it was a bet for bullshit bingo. Somebody’s going to call “Hoose” soon right?
I mean we’ve had “the UN is a useless tool of the USA”, “WEF and the Great Reset”, “UKColum tells us why Vlad and his great bunch of lads are just misunderstood anti-nazis whose tanks got lost on the way to their annual manoeuvres”. Can’t be long until “Covid is a Gates foundation plot and Bill and Melinda are space lizards who wear human suits”.
“Moonhowlers”, “bloviate’.
I find it interesting that those who don’t know how to DEBATE properly, with due respect to their literal opponents, insert words into their comments, which wouldn’t be heard in a debate at the Oxford Union.
Andy,
What happened to other countries who have declared UDI?
Ireland for example. Did a gazillion locusts decsend on Dublin that day?
What about the yanks? Do they celebrate their demise every 4th of July & greet into their beer for Britain to come back?
I think we’re on the wrong track here guys. What we should be looking for is International Precognition .
Thus , we could know in advance the minds n attitudes of the global population to the prospect of lil’ ol’ Scatland being admitted to their hallowed ranks .
What adjustments to being Scottish we’d be obliged to make to get the gig ; might have to ditch the whole ” Scottish ” trip n , dunno …..identify as New New Caledonians . Be worth it though , to get in the Krazy Klub .
Remember ….Vote ESP 1 + 1
Interesting article here, about the thing we can’t talk about…
link to wsws.org
Andy.
The UN IS a useless tool.
Iraq WOMD – strongly worded letter.
UN Rappateur – Austerity is cruel! I’m writing a letter!
UN changos – I’m writing another letter!
UN /NATO – don’t bomb Yugoslavia. That’s it! I’m writing another letter!
Israel – take as much illegal land as you want! I’m busy writing all my letters! LOL!
UN is like Holyrood Mrk2. A talking shop & a day out for most.
In other words, no one gives a shite for it any longer.
& as that Chinese diplomat stated so elequently to them *I’ll take no lectures on international law from the very country who continually breaks international law*
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Lol
@Geri –
No-one who witnessed it at the time will forget the disgusting performances of Jack Straw and Colin Powell at the UN, desperate to get the ‘international imprimatur’ for a slaughter which was always going to happen anyway. Kofi Annan later admitted that the whole fuckin thing was ‘probably illegal’ when everyone in that debating chamber knew as much before any resolutions were even voted upon.
The moment that Rumsfeld & Cheney’s ‘Shock & Awe’ was unleashed on Baghdad was when the UN, for many of us, died. It may have been a good idea once upon a time, like the League of Nations, but as soon as it outlived its usefulness for the real power brokers, it was allowed to shame itself.
Witness the opposite turn in fortunes for an organisation which can see the writing on the wall and is nimble enough to adapt accordingly – NATO is now going for global dominance not that long after having its existence questioned by a US President (Trump). And why that sudden reversal of fortunes? What has galvanised the ‘international community’? Could it be that they’re doing what the real ‘owners’ want? And if so, what is it that the real owners want?
Again, we can’t discuss that here – for now!
Ian, interesting.
Wait until the Brexshiteers find out Europe has always had the European army they feared. It’s called Yankie Doodle NATO & a wet dream of the yanks since the end of WW2. Their foreign policy akin to a protection racket.
Surround & contain ‘threats’
Strategically placed military bases & nukes
A European Army at a moment’s notice
No need for countries to pay. All weapons, nukes & personnel included! Yanks will pay it all. Just throw us some of your GDP. Bonus features include a ready made election candidate to parachute in.
Bargain!
Brian Doonthetoon says:
1 July, 2022 at 6:20 pm
Hi Mark Boyle.
No, it didn’t come from Grousebeater. It is in a report from the International Standards Organisation (ISO) in 2013.
Go to this link:-
link to iso.org
and scroll down to page 27. You will find:-
ENG—England————————country
NIR—Northern Ireland—————province
SCT—Scotland————————country
WLS—Wales[Cymru GB-CYM]—Principalitycountry
It was updated in 2015 to recognise Wales’ upgrade to country.
Thanks for doing the actual legwork. It was Sarah who first mentioned it, to which James Che instantly leaped on it and waxed lyrical, which I found odd. When you mentioned the Grousebeater connection at 2.30, I thought ‘Here we go again.’
Ian, sorry, cross posted there.
Yes, re Iraq. I don’t remember the shock & awe brigade we see now clutch their pearls in angst when they carpet bomed Baghdad based on a tissue of lies. We’ve somehow to keep them in such high esteem.
You’re right. They have zero credibility now.
Same with NATO. They’re no longer *peacekeepers* but are the fucking threat to us all & have shown they couldn’t give two fecks about *international law’ They’ll make their own & do the yanks bidding worldwide or yer oot this prestigious club! Which leaves countries sitting ducks with no defense. So they’ve no choice but sing along. I’m surprised at Kosavo FFS! What the fk are they hinking asking for NATO? Talk about jumping from the frying pan into the fir FFS! Whaaa!
@Geri (10.24) –
Aye, it’s a bit of a mess for mere mortals like us to get our heads around, but some expert on international relations will no doubt be along shortly to set us all right on what’s what with all these acronymic outfits seeing as he’s a professor an aw that.
😉
I know this be thought to be a naieve comment, and it certainly will attract criticism, but I honestly am struggling to see past what seems an obvious conclusion to this direction of travel. We are now at a stage of “banning” conversion therapy,a ban which is aimed primarily at quite a narrow religious practice, that actually in its harmful form is rarely carried out, and is mostly rejected by thoughtful religious people. But in the wake of that all sorts of other practices, including praying with and for someone struggling with sexuality and sexual preferences will be banned.
I work in supporting people leaving prison. I am struggling to see how any of the courses provided in prison to address the needs of people convicted of sexual offences will be allowed to continue. Whatever form of sexual behaviour leads to a conviction, what is to stop the perpetrator now declaring this is their chosen sexual/gender identity? And how can any course in which people are encouraged to think about their sexual behaviour, and addressing aspects of it that are considered offensive before the law, not be seen as conversion therapy?
This is road less travelled with a very dangerous destination.
O/T A fascinating article about the Scotland-UN group which helped build the pressure via the UN, initially, and then the EU, that forced Tony Blair into “allowing” a referendum about a Scottish Parliament. One of their advisers was Willie MacRae.
It is on electricscotland.com and can be found via Roger Martin’s facebook.
Clearly the international community has been fully informed about the undemocratic position that Scotland is in.
@Geri 9.09 pm
Ireland for example. Did a gazillion locusts decsend (sic) on Dublin that day?
When do you think other countries recognised Irish independence then Geri? We’ll wait…… (hint: they weren’t all rushing to do it in 1916).
@Geri –
Ta-da!
🙂 🙂 🙂
Here’s another big beefy article about globalist shitery aimed at wrapping-up all our ‘health concerns’ into a manageable lump.
Question is – who’ll be doing all the managing?
ttps://21stcenturywire.com/2022/06/07/one-health-globalist-path-to-a-one-world-order/
@Dan re. “…join the WEF? What’s the credentials required to get asked or apply?”
WEF: Forum Members:
“…Membership is by invitation only and a result of a diligent review of selection criteria.
Typical Forum Members exceed their industry standards in a variety of metrics, are interested in their role as a global citizen and have a track record of outstanding leadership, setting the bar for business best practices…
Forum Members are fully integrated into the World Economic Forum vision…
Forum Members contribute to the Forum’s mission by actively participating…”
link to weforum.org
FOI request: Scottish Government:
“Dear First Minister (08 September 2020):,
You are part of a carefully selected group of experts from all over the world who we are asking to contribute to the World Economic Forum’s flagship…
Your sincerely,
Head, Global Risks and Geopolitical Agenda
World Economic Forum “:
link to whatdotheyknow.com
World Economic Forum: People:
Nicola Sturgeon:
link to weforum.org
Andy,
Did Ireland give a fuck what the world thought?
No.
They didn’t require the whole wide worlds *permission*. It didn’t need it carved into stone or it’d cease to exist. They ploughed on regardless free from English tyranny & didn’t give two fucks what some knob jokey in outer Mongolia thought.
Does Scotland have a multitude of natural resources to trade with?
Yes.
Will the world refuse to trade with us cause BoJo says so?
No.
So grow a set & stop this international recognition pish! The UK will never grant permission & not every single country will boycott an Independent Scotland or be 100% unanimous with bells on on becoming independent. That’s life! Shit happens or we’d never leave the tit of the mighty UK. It’s a myth that’s thrown into the mix to deliberately keep us where we are. Doffing our caps to imaginary worst case scenarios.
Perplexing to put it mildly. Not that there are such loonies in the world that fantasize such shite and then break their minds attempting to make it real. They’ve always been there but nobody took them seriously before. Now governments, educational establishments and lofty institutions such as medicine bow down and worship them. How does it work? What’s the magic brew that has befuddled and demented half a nation’s youth into such sops?
I think it was Arthur Miller who, better than any, demonstrated how the social dynamics can be played by unscrupulous pseudo religions to bring about the complete collapse of rhyme, reason and common sense, in his magnificent play The Crucible.
Simplified.
The UK will never grant permission.
The EU won’t ever emerge like Moses with their endorsement carved in stone. They don’t interfere in other countries domestic affairs.
Yanks won’t either because of Trident.
So what do you suggest now?
Geri – Correct. The European commissioner described the UK as a trap for Scotland. Biden has no time for Boris. The world can actually see what England has become.
It is not Scotland who will not be recognised, its England’s tyrannical rule that is there to be seen.
We have already established our right to a referendum, many times.
James Che. says:
1 July, 2022 at 2:10 pm
“Pretty much every one agrees that the Scots are Sovereign”
The “sovereignty” of Scots is not worth the paper it was written on.
Any poster is free to prove me wrong by getting the highest court in Scotland to rule in black and white that the Scots are sovereign.
“Sovereign” people wouldn’t be fighting for independence for more than three hundred years.
Big Jock. Yes, we have – but for some strange reason we have to complicate it with myths & imaginary hurdles.
I remember Pishy Pete come out with this pish waaay back in the Landslide victory of the 2015 General Election. Suddenly we needed the whole wide world to get onboard with their endorsement of an iScot too before we could go for Independence. He was rightfully told to STFU but before we knew it it grew legs & a tail & started to include the EU, UN, Nato & we best ask Barbra fae a pub in Spain too.
Jesus wept! They’re still at it. An iScot may not even vote to be in the EU but suddenly everyone suggests we better ask them to endorse us first without a sec30 or a ballot box in sight!
“grow a set & stop this international recognition pish!”
I suggested earlier in the week that he should consider growing a mere pair. I admire your spirit but I think most of us would settle for a single one at this stage.
Maybe on a certain level we should be grateful though. He claims to speak on behalf of the electorate, Wings, the international community, and the UN, and I’ve got a lot of time for those folks…
Religions start like this, with people claiming to speak for the Gods, etc.
He truly was the son of social sciences…
Sarah, 10:41pm
I believe that was the EU council. A different beast from the EU.
A council of world leaders that’s snubbed BoJo who loitered without invite in the off chance Biden would ask him in lol
They’re the ones with the might, imo. They threatened Blair he’d be off the council unless we were given what we’d voted for.
In return he took a chunk of our sea so we could have democracy. I’m sure there must be an international law broken there! Corrupt as feck!
Can I ask a basic question: are these trans women volunteering to go through periods, pregnancies, the menopause, osteoporosis and an ingrained and continual watchfulness for male aggressions?
If not, they cannot claim to be women.
What is also strange is that these ideologues, when they promote hormonal treatments on children, are carrying out unregulated and untested medical experiments, whose long term physical and psychological effects are only beginning to be discovered. That takes us back about 80 years doesn’t it?
I have no problem with people who do not fit neatly into male/female stereotypes, and I wish them well. They can and do have happy family lives.
This whole gender/sex excitement is a total non-sense, the product perhaps of idle hands.
” He truly was the son of social sciences… ”
Hahahaha .
Thus Spoke Andythustra . The thinking man’s anal retentive . advancing Scotland’s cause one International Relation at a time
By the end of the millennium Uncle Sam & Auntie Beeb * may * be of a mind to look more favourably on Scotland’s request to become part of Oceania .
The spiritual heirs of Father Ted and Sister Sledge will surely welcome us . Not so sure about Mother R…..
Geri . Big * Thumbs – up * .
YO J.O.E . Good to hear from you again 🙂
@ gregor at 11:42pm
“WEF: Forum Members:
“…Membership is by invitation only and a result of a diligent review of selection criteria.
Typical Forum Members exceed their industry standards in a variety of metrics, are interested in their role as a global citizen and have a track record of outstanding leadership, setting the bar for business best practices…
Forum Members are fully integrated into the World Economic Forum vision…”
Not convinced I agree with the WEF’s vision if they think “outstanding leadership” includes an individual who has allowed the Party her and her hubby run to become so divided.
Plus I would not have thought “best business practice” would be letting the organisation you lead pay way over the odds for a pair of still to be completed ferries.
link to 12ft.io
A very positive initiative we all want to see…
… but stop reading once you get to the comments below from the SNP woke sycophants self ID-ing as brain dead vegetables. They hate Alex Salmond and Joanna Cherry more than the Unionists do, all because he had the temerity to prove his innocence in a Court of Law, and not lie down in the road to be run over by Sturgeon’s nasty and amateurish smear conspiracy.
I swear, these acolytes are damaged. They’re no right in the heid.
The closest comparison I can think if of, is the SS in WW2 demanding Erwin Rommel, perhaps the best, battle tested Field Marshall the Germans had, take his own life based upon trumped up evidence endorsed and probably orchestrated from the Fuhrer’s Office through their unhinged paranoia.
@Breeks 8.17 am
A very positive initiative we all want to see…
… but stop reading once you get to the comments below from the SNP woke sycophants self ID-ing as brain dead vegetables.
….The closest comparison I can think if of, …
And yet you lack the minimal levels of self awareness to see the direct comparison between the slavish obedience and lack of curiosity of the Sturgeonite Loyal Order, and the deeply regressive, conspiracy theory fuelled sub-Trumpist narrative of the moonhowlers in here, which would be electoral poison to the movement if it ever gained any traction?
I know places like this can often become echo chambers, particularly for the fringe elements, who actually come to believe that because a handful of (invariably anonymous) talking heads in a BTL comment section agree with them, then their position has widespread support.
Nobody sane takes conspiracy theories about the WEF and UN seriously, just as they think people fluffing for Vlad are beyond the pale and folk refusing to be vaccinated or engaging with conspiracy theories about Covid are irresponsible.
The candy floss haired TRA extremists in the SNP and the moonhowlers in here are cut from the same cloth, even if most of the moonhowlers are (for once!) actually on the right side on the TRA issue.
@ Hatuey 1.19 am
Maybe on a certain level we should be grateful though. He claims to speak on behalf of the electorate, Wings, the international community, and the UN, and I’ve got a lot of time for those folks…
I find the triggered response of the moonhowling fraternity instructive and encouraging. I don’t claim to speak on behalf of anyone but myself, I’m simply pointing out facts as far as they can be ascertained. The vast majority shun the narratives and politics of the conspiracy addled fringe nutters in here. It’s hardly exceptional to point that out.
However much inchoate screeching there is from stage left, the international community will simply not accept UDI or a declaration of independence. that isn’t backed up by a clear majority gained in response to a clear question in a referendum or mandate in plebiscitary elections.
Much like the franchise restriction narrative, the “we don’t need a majority of votes, just a majority of seats” snake oil is becoming something of an article of faith amongst the hard of thinking claque of moonhowlers in here. Again, much like the nativist issue, it bothers most of them that Stu Campbell thinks their argument in both cases is shit, and they froth themselves in to a lather when it is pointed out, because they know that Stu’s instincts about these things are invariably correct.
Of course, it won’t stop them abusing anyone (other than Stu of course) who points out the paucity of their arguments, and calling them yoons and MI5 plants. Again, “ordinary” voters and pro-indy folk can see them for the deranged Q-Anon types their other posts expose them as. Truly they are indy equivalent of drunks at the taxi rank that rank and they’re about as coherent and popular. Rank and file folk in the movement avoid them like the plague.
@Geri 10.52 pm
Did Ireland give a fuck what the world thought?
No.
They didn’t require the whole wide worlds *permission*. It didn’t need it carved into stone or it’d cease to exist. They ploughed on regardless free from English tyranny & didn’t give two fucks what some knob jokey in outer Mongolia thought.
Yes, it did give a fuck. Nobody abroad recognised the 1916 Declaration. They recognised the Free State after the end of the Civil War, when the Irish and UK governments had come to terms. The Free State joined the League of Nations in 1923 (only months after the end of the Civil War) and the USA didn’t recognise the Free State until 1924.
It’s not about needing “permission” (although the situation in 1921 was much different than the situation in 2022). Nobody apart from avowed imperialists like Vlad and his Chinese mates, or dyed in the wool unionists like some here and in Spain, think peoples need permission to become independent. International recognition is however universally acknowledged as a good thing and necessary. If you’re happy for Scotland to be Northern Cyprus without the sun, keep going with the UDI bullshit and see how it ends up.
Your over emotional rants don’t achieve anything other than to show you haven’t done your homework. Stun us wi’ another.
‘Nobody sane takes conspiracy theories about the WEF and UN seriously, just as they think people fluffing for Vlad are beyond the pale and folk refusing to be vaccinated or engaging with conspiracy theories about Covid are irresponsible.’
Nothing like going btl on a Saturday to find some fresh Ellis droppings, and that paragraph right there is a keeper – a classic of its kind.
A relative from Ireland brought us a wee gift once. This was way back, mid-70s. It was a wee statuette, a plastic bald-headed monk, and if you pressed his bald patch his gown opened and a large erection popped out. My parents were mortified but had to laugh and appear appreciative. As soon as the cousins had gone the wee monk went in the bin.
Anyway, it keeps, er, springing to mind since Rev gave Ellis that pat on the head t’other day.
Keep ’em coming Andy!
Andy.
If we don’t need ‘permission’ then why are you battering your keyboard to say that we do?
Sure, it’d be nice! Ummm- No shit Sherlock!
Can Scotland every guarantee that? That every.single.country. in the whole.wide.world will?
No.
Which lead me to my question which you failed to answer ..
What next?
We’ve tried the diplomatic route = FAIL
We’ve tried the 56 duds at WM route = FAIL
We’ve tried pussyfooting world/EU leaders = FAIL
We’ve tried the ‘WM you’re bad’ route = FAIL
Maybe a Labour government will have a change of heart & go against the grain of being even bigger kunts than the Tories & grant us permission to excercise our democracy = FAIL
I know, a plebiscite will work! Let’s have plan B!
No, no, no! That’d never work! We need Billy, Peter & Paul! & Let’s give everyone the idea the yoons can just boycott it! Yay for us! Independence averted!
Now we’re having plan B after all..
Now, Einstein, tell the group how that will suddenly make an internationally recognised COUNTRY be even more super duper recognised?
What if Northern Cyprus tells Scotland to fuck off?!! They’re not recognising Scotland?
Instead of taking your lead from the BoJo primary school book of *how to deflect, scoff,name call & belittle your opposition to avoid the question*
Answer the fucking question!
Would an independent country give a flying fuck what Northern Cyprus thought of them?
There are a lot of very conservative comments on this site!