The alpha ned
Fans of the bewildering in Scottish politics don’t look set to be disappointed in 2015.
Jim Murphy’s only been the Scottish Labour “leader” for a week, but already he seems hell-bent on hurling the party’s North British branch into the padded walls of its cell with more vigour than ever before, heroically ignoring the open door.
One of the received wisdoms of the Scottish commentariat was that the SNP had a “problem with women” in the shape of its former leader, Alex Salmond. Article after article insisted that the female half of Scotland’s population couldn’t bear the sight of the ex-First Minister.
(Though the reality is that both SNP and Yes support show only a small gap across the gender divide – 47% of men voted Yes, compared to 44% of women.)
Yet since taking charge, Jim Murphy has talked about little other than football, and his only firm policy proposals to date have been to repeal laws designed to reduce football-related violence against women. His plan to abolish anti-sectarianism laws (which are backed by an overwhelming six-to-one majority of Scots over the entire political and social spectrum) and bring booze back to football grounds have already been met with horror by women’s groups.
A casual observer might imagine the ploy was cynically designed to win back votes in the only part of Scotland where there’s any serious opposition to the anti-sectarian laws – the supports of Celtic and Mike Ashley’s new “Rangers”, which both happen to be located in the same place as Labour’s traditional core heartlands, but which turned to Yes in the referendum and are now also turning to the SNP.
Except that in today’s Scottish Sun, Murphy has also antagonised both groups by insulting both of the clubs, calling them a “rallying point” for a “form of racism” and accusing both of being too tolerant of the Neanderthal elements of their support.
We must confess that we’re not entirely sure why the teetotal Murphy thinks the solution to this problem is to let them get drunk at the match and sing MORE sectarian songs, but we’re certain he’ll explain it clearly under intense interrogation by the BBC and sorry we can’t type the rest of that sentence for laughing.
Jim Murphy may be the only person alive who wants to see MORE alcohol drunk in Scotland and MORE sectarian songs sung at football matches. The link between Old Firm hatred and domestic violence could scarcely be any clearer, and it continued even after booze alone was banned back in the 1980s. It vanished when the Old Firm game did after Rangers were liquidated in 2012.
Now, with a real possibility that regular Old Firm games will return next year (and a cup meeting scheduled for February), it’s apparently Scottish Labour policy to have the two sets of fans get smashed and attempt to provoke each other with songs about IRA murderers and being up to your knees in Fenian blood.
It may bring them back a few voters of the sort who’d struggle to spell “X” on a ballot paper. But as a strategy for winning over the 95% of Scotland utterly sick of the twin Irish Historical Re-enactment Societies of Govan and Parkhead, it seems a plan only slightly less suicidal than walking into the Louden Tavern dressed as the Pope.
Really disappointing article. I’m a Motherwell supporter and fully support any move to get rid of this useless legislation. Laws were already in place to deal with sectarianism and the offensive behaviour at the football act is used by police to hassle fans of all clubs without merit. This article reads as if it were written by someone who doesn’t attend Scottish football and has no idea about how these laws are actually implemented in real life.
I dislike Murphy but you are wrong about the anti football fan legislation. Rangers and Celtic fans were previously convicted of singing sectarian songs before this legislation. All this legislation did was create ever more offences or excuses for police to shop someone they did not like the look of due to their own bias, what side of the divide they are on.
Also drinking at football should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do. That is one of the things I dislike most about the SNP, they need to focus more on Scandinavian style of redistribution of wealth, which they do not do enough of and less of the Scandinavian hypocrisy of nanny state, when they live in a country where it’s legal to kill whales, neigh, butcher whales with harpoon guns.
This will be one of the few issues I agree with Murphy on.
It’s good to see Labour have their finger on the Scottish pulse, as ever.
Murphy – the Farage of the north
On being elected branch manager, Jim Murphy claimed his “driving purpose” would be to eradicate poverty and inequality. I’m struggling to see how banging on about being the most patriotic patriot in Scotland, wanting to repeal the Offensive Behaviour Act and wanting to bring back booze at football will all eradicate poverty and inequality. I mean, you don’t even have to support either law to see that they’re not barriers to reducing poverty in Scotland.
Murphy wants to win back the people who (used to) vote Labour but voted Yes in September. From his first couple of weeks in charge, it seems he’s decided these folk only wanted independence because they like waving flags, that they like to get pished, and that they like singing sectarian songs.
Basically, he’s gotten his idea of what a working class Scot is by reading the Daily Mail or watching Russ Abbot. Patronising much?
There’s little point in him giving ” opinions ” on anything outside Glasgow, so I suppose this is his fall back option
Sorry Jamie but the female part of the population plus the more responsible part of the male population are agreed on the alcohol ban. Police Scotland have strongly condemned Murph’s statements. The medical fraternity is of the same opinion.
I do wonder how Murph’s thug policy suggestions will pan out in his own middle class constituency of Eastwood, especially as they will only have him for one hear, assuming he tried for Holyrood in 2016. Not a vote winner?
The only rationale I can see in Murph’s stance is to attack and unravel all the positive achievements of the SNP government.
Sponsored by The National Grid, Jim needs plugged in to the national grid 🙂
He’s basically taking the Nigel Farage approach. If he wasn’t tee-total he’d be getting the media to take pictures of him drinking pints, so he has to get them taking pictures of him jogging in a Scotland top instead.
Argh, IAB already mentioned the Farage/Murphy thing!
Murphy wants Scotland back in the dark ages. He has no idea how to appeal to the progressive, liberal, egalitarian, or intelligent.
Scottish Labour Branch Office confuse vision and strategy with knee jerk reactions and adolescent tactics.
The latter are what they are best at.
The only possibility of Murphy succeeding will be if he continues to be supported by state sponsored propaganda and unchallenged by the media.
Scotland deserves better.
All of this comes back to Murphy’s intellectual weakness and basic lack of judgement. When you combine such qualities with excessive, cynical, self-interest and a desire for power for power’s sake, what we have is a walking, talking time bomb at the top of “Scottish” Labour.
So many lines of attack are open on Murphy; he is almost unelectable.
1. Expenses
2. Home flipping
3. Iraq War
4. Egg-gate
5. Henry Jackson Society
We could go on all day but please, let’s try to make a list.
Overall, I’m pleased with how things are shaping up. We need the SNP to do well and for Labour in Scotland to have an absolute disaster. Who better to deliver a strong result for the SNP than Nicola Sturgeon and who better to bring cataclysm upon Labour than Jim Murphy?
For once, the BBC Labour bias may work in our favour. The more exposure Murphy gets, the better for everyone (Murphy and Labour excepted).
@Jamie I remember speaking to someone before the referendum who said they were voting NO because of the anti-sectarianism laws.
So it does seem to be a big issue with some people, or is it just an excuse to hide their unionism behind?
I have taken my whole family to football matches and TBH sectarian songs give the whole event a rather sinister atmosphere in my opinion.
Because of this I would not take my children to either of the old firms matches.
Add alcohol to this mix and I probably wouldn’t take my children to ANY football match.
So in my opinion Jackanory Jim’s idea would rob football of a new generation of supporters and damage football and it’s reputation.
@ Jamie
The redistribution of wealth can start as soon as there is some wealth to redistribute.
It could be that the red tories think they still have the female vote in the bag (and so they can still take the ladies for granted). After all, they seem to think they have only to focus on the pished, old firm bravehearts who voted YES.
Oh dear – this cannot end well.
This is poor Rev. Not only poor but lazy.
I expect much better quality and sharper analysis from WoS.
@Doug Daniel
Yep… Poorly considered tactics to scrape a few votes together where possible.
See my previous post.
I was apprehensive when Murphy was elected leader of SLAB but the more scrutiny he comes under the more flaky he appears. All presentation and no substance
Jamie
I think to be fair the anti drinking laws were brought in after the riots at the 1980 cup final when mounted police had to charge fans to separate them on the park at Hampden.
Times have changed and it may be we could look at relaxing some of these laws but we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking their original introduction was a mistake. You took your life into your hands going to a football match in the 70s and early 80s.
As to the anti-sectarian laws, the same press that gives platform to Murphy now were screaming hysterically for something to be done when bombs and bullets were being sent to Lennon. Were the laws an over-reaction? Perhaps, which is why they have a sunset clause built in.
Maybe Jim hopes the serfs getting blootered and singing pro/anti catholic/protestant songs is a route back to the ‘normality’ that also saw Labour unthinkingly elected in these areas generation after generation.
Glad we are moving forward.
I enjoyed a half time pint of Carlsberg at Wembley last year at the Scotland/England match. However, I enjoyed it a little too leisurely and ended up missing the Scotland goal!
If booze does come back to Scottish grounds then I’d like to imagine there would be a nice selction of drinks on offer. An ice cold Ceasar Agustus would go down a treat at the early season fixtures when the weather is pleasant while in the winter, perhaps some hot beverages could be sold. God knows I could have done with a mulled cider at the Hibs game last week against Alloa.
In reality, we would no doubt be offered overpriced plastic cups of fizzy p1sh like Carling and if that’s the case, I’d rather go without!
OT Ivan McKee has confirmed he is standing as an SNP candidate and hoping to join the Westmnster team.
Good luck from all of us.
Please checkout Ivan’s FaceBook page and like / comment accordingly.
He was on On/Off The Ball (whichever’s the earlier one) on Saturday doing his “man of the people” bit.
Murphy lays the ground work for his next claim: drunken, sectarian civil war will follow independence.
Jim Murphy is simply saying just about anything that he thinks will grab him a headline. He was talking about the alcohol thing on the radio programme ‘Off the ball’ on Saturday apparently!
If the reports are true, then where he is really trying to be cute is in using the term ‘Working class’, as if it’s only working class folk who go to football, so it’s only them who are being punished and of course the ever caring Labour Party are trying to right this wrong, because of course, they are the party of the working class. As tactics go it’s about as subtle as a tank!
I agree with you wholeheartedly although in my humble opinion I would refrain from using the term “IRA murderers” as with such a complex issue as Irish republicanism many of the Irish diaspora population in Scotland may take offence, and the less intelligent of us may be swayed towards idiots like Mr.Murphy.
Good article as always though. 🙂
Poor old Ed. Actually give the Branch Office reponsibility when they have just elected a showman clown as their manager, which is pissing off the electors, or keep the BO reined in still, which is pissing off the regulars?
Decisions, decisions and only 5 months to make it in 😀
I can see Murphys game here. Its pretty clear. Fans from both sides of the old firm were able to unite behind YES. Murphy wants to poison that bond as much as he possibly can. If catholics and protestants dont trust each other that can only work in Labours favour. Its the game they know well. Their favourite one for that matter. Divide et Imperia
He wants to destroy the bonds that link Glasgows yes supporters and they way he thinks that he can do this is by reviving the old hatreds of the 20th century. He is trash.
Martin McDonald @12.29
Add this to your list:
Murphy wants a fairer Scotland but Labour opposed Smith Commission devolving Minimum / Living Wage to Scottish Parliament.
On 13th November 2013 47 Labour’ MPs failed to turn up to vote to repeal the Bedroom Tax at Westminster and thus let the Tories carry on by only 26 votes and their official excuse was that they were “paired” with Tory MPs . However “pairing” does not apply to important Parliamentary business. So there you have it, repealing the Bedroom Tax is not important business for Labour.
Certainly wasn’t important enough for Anas Sarwar who was giving a lecture in Pakistan (no doubt telling them that they should have stuck with India) or Jim Murphy who was attending a lunch at a vegetarian cafe in Glasgow.
Labour’s plans to outflank the SNP as the natural party of social justice were fatally damaged on 26 March 2014 when Jim Murphy and other Scottish Labour MPs, including Alistair Darling, Ian Murray and Sheila Gilmore voted in favour of further Tory welfare cuts. Gordon Brown as usual didn’t turn up.
This follows the non show of Labour MPs to vote against the Bedroom Tax on 13th November last year and failure to oppose Tory plans to cut the top rate of tax for the highest earners on 22 March 2012.
Murphy with his natural allies
link to newsnetscotland.scot
Trying to get past my dislike of Murphy. I suspect that his view of the Scottish Proletariat is frozen in the positions of twenty years ago when he last had real dealings with the people of his roots. Lad ‘o parts goes off to University – the classic Scottish folk myth.
Here things change, rather than settling down and getting a degree and going out to help the poor and needy, he plays student politics, and ends up leaving without a degree but with a lot of useful contacts who will help his career.
When he gets to London he discovers that he is still a Jock and that the friends of yesterday (Bliar, Staw and the war party) are no longer a recommendation and the help which they once were, so he goes “home” to lord it over the Scots. But they have changed and the things which they were once diverted from no longer work. Most people don’t hate the other side, Celtic are criticised, Rangers are despised, and we don’t want his kind of society.
In 2015 the people reject him and in 2016 he doesn’t get the support which he hoped for and he becomes a footnote in history
his only goal is to defeat opponent and win accolade, @ all costs.
shamefully this is now the predominant political mindset.
i actually watched stanley mathews dribble, i was struck in the face by a george o’brien shot on goal, legs like tree trunks, he looked up and apologized to me.
no alpha ned’s there.
the point is that they spontaneously noticed their supporters.
imv the game was far more rounded back then.
i see the same qualities in patrick harvie, colin fox, alex salmond, nicola sturgeon, tommy sheridan and many others in the yes campaign, a restoration of something that was missing, human being.
[…] The alpha ned […]
Jim Murphy a tee totaler. Manys a True Word has been said in drinkers converations.
Might be time for Jim to give up the Irn Bru,to much Iron in it,his brain must be RUSTY,& the colourant in Irn Bru will turn him a bright shade of Orange.
“cynically designed to win back votes in the only part of Scotland where there’s significant opposition to the anti-sectarian laws – the supports of Celtic and Mike Ashley’s new “Rangers”, which both happen to be located in the same place as Labour’s traditional core heartlands, but which turned to Yes in the referendum and are now also turning to the SNP.”
If it is, I suspect he may find it backfires. Areas which have the biggest problems with anything also have the most opposition to that problem thing, for very obvious reasons.
I remember when first working with public health going into an area of very high alcoholism with information and we kept hearing over and over again, “Never touch a drop, hen”; “I’m tea-total” etc. At first we thought people were taking the piss or just didn’t want preachy health people talking to them. Until it dawned on us that of course if you have a high alcoholism rate you’re also going to have a high tea-total rate as well. Not just recovering alcoholics, but people who grew up with it and know the harm it does. And the people that are out and about of a morning are statistically more likely to not be the ones who are alcoholic, hence in pubs or still in bed or whatever.
Similarly, in areas where sectarianism and alcoholism are a problem, you’re also going to have the highest opposition and wariness towards that, especially among women.
Most that want a drink have one in the local bars before the match starts and if someone can’t do without an alcoholic drink for 90mins then they have a serious problem.
The only beneficiaries of bringing alcohol back to football grounds would be the clubs and the drinks companies not the percentage of wives and girlfriends that are battered senseless because their partners team lost. Flowers when they win, black eyes when they lose, you choose Mr Murphy!
The proposal seems no more than a cynical ploy to attract a certain type of voter, but yes, I agree, that most women voters will shudder at the prospect of returning to an era that brought out the worst in Scotland. Plenty of opportunities for fans to drink after the game, if they so choose.
I think JimBoy will have a problem with this woman –
link to misssymartin.blogspot.co.uk
Updated the article.
Dugdale is economically illiterate, and she is attempting to spout misinformation to the electorate. She is just carrying on in the same theme that Lying Labour have constantly adopted. Pick a subject, any subject, look for fault, and blame the SNP Government. It matters not whether it is a devolved matter or not. Labour believe the Scottish public are too stupid to notice. Well, there are at least 1,650,000 of us who no longer are. Labour are devoid of talent and have no future here. Dugdale and Murphy least of all.
link to caltonjock.com
Never been able to understand religious hatred, as I am from the North. Been to Ireland many times and thought the people were magic, so never could understand the stupidity of blind hatred.
Murphy has a lot of skeleto(r)s in the cupboard, the Brit establishments man in Scotland, he will want to see a divided nation
Can I give my perspective on this, based on over 40-years in the press boxes at some 50-plus sports.
The “Old Firm” may be the most-obvious expression of it, but, religious bigotry in Scotland is not a 90-minutes each Saturday phenomenon.
I have long felt, doing away with denominational schools might lessen the examples of religious bigotry, but, since so-much of such behaviour is learned in the home, it will not eradicate it totally.
The two clubs, Celtic and the present-day “Rangers Tribute Act” have always been happy to tolerate their lunatic fringe with their antedeluvian, bigoted religious attitudes and liking for Northern Irish history. Neither club has ever done nearly enough to stamp out bigotry.
If they will not, they need to be forced to address these issues, but, the SFA seems loath to enforce such action.
That said, the current anti-sectarian legislation, hastily-implemented and not throught through properly, is bad law and needs rewriting.
I cover both rugby and football and used to find it funny that, back when Glasgow Warriors played at Firhill, I could see the same faces, in the same seats in Partick Thistle’s Jackie Husband Stand on a Friday night for the Warriors’ game, and again on the Saturday afternoon for a Thistle game. On the Friday night, they could enjoy a pint, or even a cheeky wee red wine, but, on the Saturday, they could have nothing stronger than tea, coffee, or Bovril.
It didn’t make sense then; they didn’t undergo a personality change whilst sleeping on Friday nights. It continues to make no sense today.
If the clubs treated their fans like decent people and policed properly the very small minority of total nutters, instead of treating them as a source of cash, to be exploited but never embraced, things might improve.
However, we have far more serious issues to address in Scotland.
Anyone calling for the return of alcohol sales at the fitba has obviously never had a pint at the fitba. A 20floz serving of fizzy, foamy, beer flavoured chemicals in a plastic tumbler? I’d rather abstain for an hour and a half than suffer the 40 trips to the lavvy a couple of them would bring on
Yes, I heard he was being introduced on ‘Off the Ball’last week, one of my favourite radio programmes. On that day though, it was the off switch for me.
Everyone at football grounds who buy an anti-nationalist plastic pint of beer is to get a patriotic ‘See You Jimmy Murphy’ hat for free.
Jamie 12;09pm “drinking at football should be allowed”
I disagree. There is not one good reason that says drinking at football should be allowed. Not a single one.
Drink can be consumed in pubs right up until kick-off or, if you’ve not finished your pint or your mate has just got a round in, it can continue after kick-off time too.
Of course, if you don’t want to walk 5 minutes from a pub to the ground you can already purchase drink until about 15 minutes before kick-off in supporters bars and social clubs at many grounds up and down the country.
If someone really is unable to go without alcohol for the 115 minutes it takes for a football match to be played then their issue is clearly that alcohol plays too important a part of their life.
It should be noted that not every Celtic fan is against the LAW BUT the policing and enforcing of the law is very much up to question. The FoCUS Police group and the political games played by the Police have been very suspect and the very poor conviction rate shows much more thought and understanding is needed.
Nice to see Jim, the teetotal season book holder yet very much a man familiar with the words “Celtic Board members hospitality”, harping on about the working man getting a drink at the game. How very Marie Antoniette of him.
Definite divid and rule mindset going on, let’s hope we can keep up the current poll ratings, convert them to MP’s seats and get rid of these callous bastards
Jim Murphy and Labour could easily win back voters in Scotland. All they have to do is set out a Devo Max, Home Rule or Federalism programme to overturn the Neo Liberal agenda of the Tories and create a social democracy in Scotland (and the rUK). He’d have to sound convincing though.
Good luck to Ivan McKee in his election campaign. Great news.
Yes I remember watching the 1980 Scottish Cup Final and thinking to myself, as the police horses came round for the third time, and the fan leant into the camera to drunkenly shout “CELTIC!!!”….
Thank God we don’t have a nanny state
Why is alcohol not a problem at Scottish rugby matches? (serious question)
I’ve always been pleasantly surprised at the way rugby fans can mix after a game, especially an international at Murrayfield itself, and even after England-Scotland rugby matches. It does not need two thousand of Lothian’s finest to police such an affair (as an equivalent football match, esp an Old Firm derby, does/did require). Thots?
the first commenter cannot grasp the nuance of the problem. He states ” if you don’t like alcohol don’t drink it” .
The issue is not the taste of alcohol nor is it presenting people with the ‘choice’ or drinking it or not – the problem is the destructive macho-drinking culture that has ruined our country since time immemorial and would and does find an incubator in football grounds because of environment that can foster there.
Play the game mate
The great anti-nationalist patriot Jim Murphy wants a fairer Scotland.
Being in an alliance with IDS and the Tories for over two years in order to prevent Scots getting rid of that evil parasite forever from their society is certainly a novel way of going about it.
So is the Westminster Labour policy of preventing full control over the DWP in Scotland from being devolved to Holyrood a novel way of addressing the growing inequality and poverty caused by Westminster neoliberal policies and programme of austerity which Labour fully supports.
Jim is courting publicity only, get the name in the papers, this week football, next week who knows what. His publicity machine will be working in overdrive from now till May. Everyone knows its all rubbish – alcohol at football – just gets people divided and talking about the agenda HE is setting. Please can the SNP get their publicity machine up and running and INSIST the media pay attention to their press releases.
BBC bosses banned Alex Salmond from its panel at Scotland’s Six Nations clash with England today — despite him vowing NOT to mention independence, it emerged last night.
link to thesun.co.uk
Double Standards. Alex Salmond prevented from participating in a BBC sports broadcast, (invitation withdrawn by London Head office) despite giving assurance he would steer clear of anything remotely political.
Jim Murphy invited to participate fully without hindrance on a BBC sports show. Spent the bulk of his time spouting forth making all sorts of Party political statements. Dear oh dear.
link to theguardian.com
Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland’s Off the Ball programme on Saturday, Murphy said he was in favour of overturning the ban “on a trial basis”.
The leader of the Scottish Labour party, Jim Murphy, has been criticised by women’s organisations working with the victims of domestic abuse after he suggested that the ban on alcohol at Scottish football matches should be lifted.
Well said, Devorgilla, at 12.20. This issue goes deeper than sectarianism and violence among attendees at matches, were that it was only that.
Groups like Women’s Aid, have, for years, been able to track domestic violence linked to Old Firm games. So not just football thugs fighting among themselves, but all the attendant misery and costs to families.
That’s why women’s groups are appalled.
Perhaps his thinking is that the more people are pissed out of their skulls, the more likely they are to vote Labour.
I’m same age as Murphy and saw it all back in the day, got battered as a kid behind the Beach End by grown up reprobates in green and blue, watched them battle on the pitch at Hampden with broken bottles and meat cleavers etc but the biggest shock was learning how same thugs were going home and attacking women when they lost. Never again. Murphy’s got nae chance.
Survation Poll on Mr Murphy’s election by the voters of the British Labour Party in Scotland.
“Survation found that for 14 per cent of those questioned Mr Murphy’s leadership made them more likely to vote Labour,while 18 per cent said they were less likely to do so.
57 per cent said it made no difference” !
Evening News archived link.
Only scroll——don’t click. Thankyou.
link to archive.today
[…] Fans of the bewildering in Scottish politics don’t look set to be disappointed in 2015.Jim Murphy’s only been Scottish Labour “leader” for a week and already seems hell-bent on hurling the party’s North British branch into the padded walls of its cell with more vigour than ever before, heroically ignoring the open door. […]
I agree Murphy is trash, trying to divide and conquer on this, but I think he has picked a big loser here.
Those on the football divide who were united in a Yes vote, have, in my opinion, the wit to see what Murphy is up to here. They are surely not the types that can’t survive a football match without alcohol. As has been pointed out, folk can go in bladdered.
Police and women’s groups have worked for many years together to lessen the impact of alcohol, and i dont care what anyone says, this country has a huge issue with alcohol.
SNP should be going ballistic on this, because the info. and support is there.
I think Murphy did a SFA Referee course , did he pass ?.
Labour need to get rid of the virus before they can cure the illness.
As a new resident in his constituency (it’s not middle class and anyone who thinks it exists is in denial) I for one look forward to him chapping my door in support, he won’t remember me, but I remember him from uni days. A repulsive political bully who sold out every student in the land.
Murphy..
Man of the people on Off the Ball?
How about Man of the people at the Clutha. What a feckin coincidence.
Yes I am cynical
“Laws were already in place to deal with sectarianism”
Aye, doubtless that’s why after 100 years it had been completely eradicated at football. Piss off with this shite old argument, eh?
After reading this article links and all one is wondering what Decade does Jim Murphy think we live in?
Shows how detached he is from the people of Scotland thinking this is still a majority voting point, there aren’t many from my generation that still feed this machine of hatred and each generation after mines less and less.
He is harking on about the issue like the majority don’t want the law, and it will be up for review at which time the Scottish government will reform the law to create something better , this is also the same time Jim plans to overhaul it, what part of we are all politically tuned in now in Scotland that the labour party doesn’t get?
Unfortunately for Jim and Chums gone are the days of the great unwashed
Just another of Murphs’ crass attempts to win votes. He genuinely scares me, what would he be like with alcohol?
Has anyone polled how the new messiah apeals to women voters?
Can anyone confirm rumours about a certain ‘left wing’ politician getting kicked out of a pub in a large city on the west coast due to singing Sectarian songs. I’m not going to mention names or places for obvious reasons.
@Pedro
“If someone really is unable to go without alcohol for the 115 minutes it takes for a football match to be played then their issue is clearly that alcohol plays too important a part of their life.”
What pretentious, sanctimonious twaddle. It’s not whether someone can do without drink for 115 minutes or 115 hours. it’s the fact that some tosser in government, with a 24 hour subsidised bar, is doing the deciding for me.
@Rev
“Aye, doubtless that’s why after 100 years it had been completely eradicated at football. Piss off with this shite old argument, eh?”
Football isn’t the only time idiots go home and beat up their wives / girlfriends. And there ARE laws in place to deal with this problem, so perhaps it’s you should piss off with the same shite argument……respectfully.
“Sorry Jamie but the female part of the population plus the more responsible part of the male population are agreed on the alcohol ban.”
Devorgila – If most people agree on an alcohol ban at football, because domestic violence will be lower, then I assume these same people also support an alcohol ban everywhere. Just think how much violence, domestic or otherwise, would fall if the entire region of Scotland had no access to alcohol.
Sorry WoS but for once I have to take issue. Your article points to Jim Murphy looking towards Glasgow and pandering to the sectarian masses as a vote winner. But here’s the perspective from outside Glasgow. Why should the vast majority of Scottish football fans have to suffer because of the behaviour of fans of the ugly sisters. Now stuff which was normal ( if abusive ) football banter is being painted as sectarian .. for example the word Hun is now sectarian apparently. Why for over 2 decades should fans of Hibs or Aberdeen or Morton etc have been denied a drink at the football because of the actions of only two clubs? That’s the trouble with Scotland … we allow the tail to wag the dog. Yes we have a sectarian problem, but in the East, south and north it is very diluted or non existent. I have lived in the Borders for over 40 years and in my experience nobody could give a toss what religion you are. When will we get a bit of honesty here and admit that this stuff is very much a west of Scotland problem which unfortunately the rest of us are made to suffer for.
“Why should the vast majority of Scottish football fans have to suffer because of the behaviour of fans of the ugly sisters”
I’m all for a trial lifting of the alcohol ban on games not involving the Gruesome Twosome.
O/T I know, but is Morag out there?, I’d like to know what’s happening with the Magahi case?, that’s if you can revel the latest move,
As for Murphy, bloody “carpet bagger”!, nothing more, nothing less, and should be treated as such.
Guys, gonnae no dae that. Gie’s peace fae murphy and the shite he talks about fitba. Stop yakin oan and oan aboot him.
I care feck all for his wee games that he thinks we are a’ stupit enough to fall for. Yer only giein him whit he wants, mare publicity.
O/T
On a nicer note, I might not be able to post for a few days as Christmas will here soon and the family will be arriving soon too. I’ll try and have the odd read just to get my fix, but may I wish all of you here on WOS a very merry Christmas, and I hope that Santa is good to all of you.
Murphy, the Celtic supporter, wants to be pals with Rangers fans who like bigoted chanting, and, although he is teetotal, he wants people to get bladdered at football matches so that they feel thankful to him for the privilege. Any ideas for suitable middle names for Murphy? How about
Jim “Forget-Principles,-I’ll-Agree-To-Anything-As-Long-As-You-Vote-for-Me” Murphy?
A clip from the new movie ‘Jurassic Party’ –
Scottish Labour unveils new leader
link to youtube.com
I think the perceived problems in the Scottish game have solutions in the scheduling of matches, the extraordinary control TV companies have (and how little they pay for their control), the lack of any sort of positive promotion of the game from its “leaders” and the literally 24/7 live football that is pumped into peoples houses through the satellites on their walls. Not in the lack of being able to get jaked up and have a fight.
Football fans have come a long way since the 1980s, it’s true. And I think there could easily be games where alcohol is safely sold. But we don’t need many games where it can’t for it to cause a real problem. And these anti sectarian laws…there’s a really obvious solution, guys. And I say this as a 17 year season ticket holder at Parkhead.
Note that the supposed problem with women AS had was pretty much entirely an elderly problem. Since us blokes shuffle off this mortal coil earlier than the womenfolk, there are more elderly women than elderly men by a significant proportion easily enough to swallow the small percentage difference between male and female support.
Elderly people tend to be No voters and as a result they don’t like AS. But we knew that. This continuing idea that ALL women have a problem with him or the SNP is a calumny against younger and middle aged women. RIC Dundee would have been a much smaller and sadder thing without the women.
Davie says:
22 December, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Devorgila – If most people agree on an alcohol ban at football, because domestic violence will be lower, then I assume these same people also support an alcohol ban everywhere.
Any laws must balance personal freedom against impact. There were demonstrable spikes following certain events and taking alcohol out of them was felt to be an effective measure. Nationwide prohibition would not work- see America in the 1920s. Demonstrably, banning alcohol at football matches DID work.
When you resort to reductio ad absurdum you lose all credence in debate.
Davie I presume you are being facetious? What a stupid thing to say.
The Womens groups against Jim Murphys statements do not support an alcohol ban in the region. If you cant see the difference, god help your perspective.
Surely it’s just Jim Murphy digging where he thinks SNP corpses are buried (bad legislation in this case) and did someone mention Megrahi, also being raked up.
Not so much good publicity for himself, more light blue touch paper and stand back – wasn’t me, mister.
While agreeing Murphy is atttempting to play a rather crass populist tune here, there is room for debate on these issues. The 2012 anti-sectarian laws, however well intentioned, were hastily drafted and lacked thorough scrutiny in our unicameral chamber. I’m not sure I would advocate their repeal as such, but many have concerns on highly questionable and poorly framed clauses which could be used maliciously to suppress free expression – perhaps even against sites like Wings for something like this very article.
For a more thorough discussion on the implications of this law and as well as related issues around freedom of expression arising from the Leveson Inquiry and the McCluskey Report (which recommended an even more draconian system of censorship in Scotland), readers may be interested in a pamphlet written by two excellent Scottish writers Alan Bissett and Jean Rafferty (both passionate Yes supporters, incidentally, though that was not the reason for their commission).
‘Freedom of Expression in the New Scotland’ was published by Scottish PEN & the Saltire Society and can be purchased or downloaded here:
link to saltiresociety.org.uk
I agree restrictions on alcohol at Scottish football grounds, sadly, remain all too necessary. That said, I would be interested to see a study to assess whether the ban may have actually added to the horrific spikes in domestic violence following Old Firm games by displacing the aggression previously vented at the game itself.
Scotland has a dreadfully complicated relationship with alcohol and violence, where social, political, historical and economic vectors all cross and collide. Simplistic solutions and populist point-scoring from whatever quarter does not allow us to debate the issues we need to address.
And while I don’t believe for a moment that independence could be the panancea to all our ills, crossing that particular rubicon would, I believe, help us shed that inferiority complex which so often leads to over-compensating machismo, and see us take more responsibility for our own actions.
Comparing Old Firm games with Murrayfield is just daft, there’s no history of trouble at rugby matches.
This is not a Glasgow problem, Old Firm fan come from a very wide area as can be seen from the addresses of arrested fans but folk who think the law on alcohol & sectarian singing should be relaxed should spend some time at the casualty department of the Royal Infirmary after a game. Murphy’s an opportunist twat.
Those who argue to lift the laws and the ban on drink need to step back and take the long view.
I grew up in the West coast world of drunken violence and bigotry. The Laws/Rules may seem harsh but we needed to change society.
When Scots are no longer divided over bigotry and they adapt drinking habits to social drinking instead of what we have now then we can revisit it.
I see an improving situation and unless someone has a better idea I will continue to support the path we are taking.
I remember the 60’s/70’s when drink driving, homophobic behaviour, chauvanistic remarks and rascist jokes were all acceptable – would anyone like to go back to that?
If I hear one more old firm fan bemoaning the anti-sectarian legislation I will scream. Get over it! Stop behaving like morons and you shouldn’t even notice there is a law in place. It doesn’t affect me in my life one jot. Why because I don’t waive sectarian flags and sing ditties about killing people. Murphy is cynically appealing to the thickest mob in our society.
Very disappointed in some of the comments here, like Jim McIntosh, concerned only with being righteous or having a a nanny state. I suppose our gun laws which grew directly from the Dunblane massacre, is another unnecessary restriction of your rights?
These restrictions have not been designed to harrass you, or because there aren’t enough issues for governments to spend money on, do some reading outside your cosy non violent, non alcoholic world, look at statistics in the West, and try and see beyond your huffy outrage, for something as trivial as not being able to buy alcohol during a match.
Some very narrow, societal views of what is actually going on being demonstrated by this topic.
Not taking a drink for an hour and a half is “suffering”? Keep the laws, Murphy’s using this for all the usual stuff. Middle class Labourites hated it when it first starting coming with usual roughy toughy sociologists, pot bellied Slab MP’s, BBC talking heads saying its all just working class men having fun, yet none of them would dream of standing in a Police line trying to keep them from killing each other or anyone else in range.
Such is teamGBness. All of it made Scotland look terrible ofcourse and wonder why our imperial masters said no change.
Albaman says:
“I’d like to know what’s happening with the Magahi case?”
Happening here Albaman:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@Marie clark
A Merry Christmas to you too. I hope you have a lovely time with your family.
Football: Yawn
Old Firm: YAWN
Old Firm Sectarianism: YAAAAWWWWNNNN
Is it no aboot time we grew the f**K up?
I grew up with the whole “which fitba club d’ye support” crap. Put me off football forever.
Like the old American whisky drummers of the Wild West if you want to steal the Indians land just give him a bottle of firewater and stand well back. Jimba might be teetotal but he is still a whisky drummer and fraudster.
Should be interesting to see that J Burd wuman and the rest of the Murphy fan club at the EBC trying to put a positive spin on this one!
Looks as if Jim Murphy could be championing a so-called “Arseholes Law”. Horses for courses and all that …
@Big Jock
This.
Is it too much to expect grown men to behave in a civilized fashion?
The legislation should remain.
@Hobbit
22 December, 2014 at 1:24 pm
“Why is alcohol not a problem at Scottish rugby matches? (serious question)”
I’ve played both Sunday league football and rugby, both for several years. I think the answer to your question lies in the sports’ cultures wrt discipline and refereeing.
I’ve seen football referees being assaulted during Sunday league games, and that isn’t an unknown event. Players would regularly mouth off and swear at refs and the attitude was, oh that’s just boys being boys, you have to work around it.
In rugby you have to call the referee “Sir” or “Ma’am”. If you swear at them, you get sent off and sanctioned by your club. If you as much touch a ref, never mind assaulting them, you get banned from playing rugby in all jurisdictions FOR LIFE.
This attitude of controlled aggression with discipline tends to spill over into the after-match antics at rugby. There a total cultural taboo about bringing agro off the pitch and into the bar. If that were not the case, the sport would be impossible, because there would be a punch up after every game. If anyone ever does get stroppy, usually their own team mates will police them and tell them to wind their neck in… and if necessary stick them in a taxi home.
I think this difference in attitude is ingrained in the many players and ex players that attend rugby games, and it sets a tone of self-policing no-agro-off-the-pitch which others around them just instinctively respond to.
If I was trying to introduce a policy for dealing with soccer related violence, it would start by talking to the SFA and FIFA about the culture of disrespect for referees in their sport.
Murphy is ‘trolling’ the ‘Scottish Psyche’, don’t bite on the bait people. That’s exactly what this story is really about. He’s playing the ‘controversial’ card to keep his profile high.
Divide and conquer, is all they have in their armoury. They are doing this with the complicit media. We are past this stage in Scotland, and he is poking the healing wounds to produce a painful reaction.
Step back, assess on the basis of the current situation since the vote. Not the past. Become impervious and may the force be with you…smirk.
@ Papadox, I can just picture Murphy punting cure-all quack medicine from a covered wagon, needs a Lobey Dosser to run the bastard out of town.
Anent the great game, it’s dying on its feet despite incessant media coverage. It’s a minority interest, in my wee street there are a few who might take an interest but none of them bother their arse going to a game.
I recall having a lot of beer at the last stadium packed US baseball game I attended. No whisky or Jim Beam, of course, but awash with Coca Cola. Then again, no head banging sectarian battles either.
Maybe Murphy wants to repeal the legislation as a favour to his pal, John Reid, who, I’m told, is quite partial to singing Irish rebel songs.
Big Jock says:
22 December, 2014 at 2:58 pm
If I hear one more old firm fan bemoaning the anti-sectarian legislation I will scream. Get over it! Stop behaving like morons and you shouldn’t even notice there is a law in place. It doesn’t affect me in my life one jot. Why because I don’t waive sectarian flags and sing ditties about killing people. Murphy is cynically appealing to the thickest mob in our society.
Agreed.
@Ian
Thank you, that’s very helpful. Another factor is that within the game proper, rugby also has sin-binning and players who give the ref grief can be “marched for dissent”.
Within the fanbase, though, why is it that the *fans* seem much better-behaved?
@Valerie
“do some reading outside your cosy non violent, non alcoholic world, look at statistics in the West, and try and see beyond your huffy outrage, for something as trivial as not being able to buy alcohol during a match.”
Please don’t be so condescending, you don’t know me, know nothing about me. You might think losing civil liberties bit by bit is ‘trivial’, I don’t. As others have stated this is predominantly a west of Scotland problem and what you have here is the ‘tail wagging the dog’.
Not sure why you decided to conflate the issue of buying alcohol with the aftermath of Dunblane. Surely you could have gone the whole hog and accused me of wanting to bring back capital punishment.
For once im half agreeing with murph. Id say make the interiors of Ibrox and Park head law free zones and arm everybody entering with knives, good and sharp ones. Id even want their season tickets subsidized by the state and id happily pay my taxes towards that goal.
“banning alcohol at football matches DID work.”
It what sense did it work? There’s been no more on field riots since the ban? Absolutely no proof that there would have more riots had alcohol not been banned. English fans, with their history of impeccable behaviour, manage to drink at every ground in England without rioting afterwards. Policing, stadia and attitudes have changed since the 80s.
Domestic violence may be reduced at having no alcohol at football but it would also be reduced by having alcohol banned between Christmas and New Year. You can’t restrict what the majority can do based on what a tiny minority might do.
Thing is I wouldn’t even drink at the games as I drive but I’ve enjoyed having a pint at half time when watching football in England. Other thing is, alcohol isn’t actually banned at football grounds in Scotland, you just have to pay more for your ticket to get a pint. So I guess the argument is you can’t be trusted to drink at football if you’re not rich enough to pay 3 times the normal price for a ticket. I guess richer folk don’t beat their partners.
Murphy is a right wing Tory that can’t take on the SNP in the political arena, so he is ignoring real politics and going for tokenism.
Ignore the twat.
O/T Breaking news, a bin lorry has crashed in George Square, at Queen Strett, there are fatalities and many injured. Thoughts go out to all involved…so sad.
link to theguardian.com
Who says Murphy is teetotal?
Murphy?
And we believe him?
I knew a man who appeared never to drink though it transpired later when he fell down a flight of stairs that in reality he lived his days permanently sozzled.
It was that degree of drunkiness that allows a man to hold his posture upright but rather too stiff, belligerent in normal discussion exhibited by the habit of talking loudly over people – all were clues.
He kept the swallay to out-of-company hours.
“The Womens groups against Jim Murphys statements do not support an alcohol ban in the region. If you cant see the difference, god help your perspective.”
Why don’t they? Banning alcohol from Scotland completely would do far more to reduce domestic and other violence than banning two pints watered down pints at 3.45pm on a Saturday.
If I can’t be trusted to have a pint at half time because some guy in the crowd might go home and beat his wife, then why should any of us be trusted to drink when you look at all the violence, death and destruction that alcohol costs Scotland on any given Saturday night?
Why don’t you just Google women’s aid and look at the nationwide campaign linking football and domestic abuse. At Jim McIntosh, I do equate the issues of gun law and alcohol at matches, because they represent enlightened laws for protection, and strangely they both protect children. There are a lot of borderline personality types in our society, others are just unable to exercise control.
I may know nothing of your background, but what you have written shows a real lack of empathy or understanding of how alcohol operates, and what happens to women and children in a disproportionate manner.
Consensus here seems to be that Murphy is a past-century politician.
@Jim McIntosh, seriously? Not purchasing alcohol at a match is eroding your civil liberties? Wow.
Who’s raging about the new drink drive limit,then?
Another nanny state, erosion of our liberties.
Maybe I am paranoid, but some time ago there was a discussion asking if the drink rules should now be relaxed. I did not pay a lot of attention, it was on the BBC and may have been ” Call Kay”.
Is it coincidence that Murph now makes this an aim of Slab?
I have thought a number of times that this program could be testing public opinion, gauging reactions etc in order to help Slab find popular policies? Maybe not so fanciful, we know the BBC don’t we!
@ K1
The Guardian can’t help themselves, can they? I read the article you linked to; a dreadful situation indeed. But there, right at the end, “Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy tweeted….”
So Valerie, once the law has been in place banning alcohol at football grounds for 10-15 years, is that when you start the campaign to get the pubs to shut between 5-8 on a Friday night to make sure the man will go straight home after work.
What’s after that?
Who’s the hot Mars man?
Quick O/T point, if 44.7% voted yes, and assuming an approx equal number of men and women, there could not have been 47% men & 44% women voting yes. (If 47% men is correct, it would have been more like 41%)
You can get tanked up before and after the game. Why is it such a hardship to not drink for 90 minutes? Surely we are not that bad that we can’t tolerate 90 minutes without going to the bar. you are there to watch the football not spew in a pint.
I have been on tartan army tours. We drank in the San Sero and not one arrest. The difference is mentality. Old firm fans are tribal and want to kill each other. Some Jambo’s want to kill Hibees. Add booze to the mix and it’s like a blue touch paper.
@Jim McIntosh, ridiculous paranoia, about you not getting access to alcohol.
Hobbit – the reason you can buy booze at rugby is that no one takes rugby seriously, not even rugby fans. It’s not the matter of life and death the way football is to some.
If Scotland was New Zealand you would be able to buy booze at the football, but not the rugby…
“Also drinking at football should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do.”
Also drinking in work/on trains/in schools should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do.
Jim – Have you been reading George Orwell recently! LOL
“once the law has been in place banning alcohol at football grounds for 10-15 years, is that when you start the campaign to get the pubs to shut between 5-8 on a Friday night to make sure the man will go straight home after work.”
Absolutely staggering non-sequitur. Seriously, sort yourself out.
Chris -Unfortunately as you know life is never that simple. The laws were brought in to protect the majority from the minority. There are a lot of people in this country who’s anti social behaviour impacts on all of our lives. The drunk man who hits another at a football match causes a problem firstly to himself and his family,the police,the doctors and nurses,the victim and his/her family. One selfish act harms many!
@Big Jock – How do you know, have you been watching me, I knew it!!!!
I’ve never known why drinking alcohol during a sporting event, especially football, enhances the occasion, especially if your team is losing. If we have problems now with sectarianism on the street and during sporting events then I doubt ‘having a beer’ is going to calm things down a bit.
But the real problem Scotland has is a corrosive booze culture that has never seriously been tackled. “Go on tak a drink, you’re no a real man till yer boakin’ up at five in the morning.” Murphy creates division, it’s how Labour have controlled Scotland. Pander to anyone, protestant or catholic, whoever gives them the vote, keep them boozed, keep them on benefits, keep them hating… the Labour way.
Well said Big Jock, you have obviously witnessed the matches first hand, I have witnessed, and still do see the on going aftermath.
Part of pride in our country, is not being blind to our faults, and being willing to think how we mitigate impacts of those faults in society, where we can.
@ Les Wilson
Have you learned nothing from this site over the past 2 years??? Its Kaye with an E… 😉
Aye crazycat, I saw that at the end, sorry not to archive it either. He’s everywhere isn’t he? They are truly desperate, which means we’re winning. Scotland’s changed, if they could incite some kind of division by any means they will. We have to stayed focused on the mainchance and wipe them out GE15…onwards…
A lot of folk on here talk about loss of their civil liberties, the nanny state and how put upon they are cos they canny have a drink whilst watching football.
What about us smokers?
This ban on alcohol is similar to banning smoking where it is not appropriate. No one has said I HAVE to stop smoking. They say that for the social good I am restricted in where and when I can smoke. I may complain but I think fair enough.
No one has said you HAVE to stop drinking, just at times when WE, society, deem it inappropriate, for whatever reason.
Just the same as DON’T Drink and DRIVE, the removal of alcohol sales at football matches attempts to keep people there as well behaved as possible and as safe as possible. This is a social GOOD. Some people may not need this assistance but we are attempting to influence the WHOLE not individuals.
TBH the more that people are reminded of when and where it is or isn’t appropriate to consume alcohol the better.
Alcohol abuse doesn’t just happen at football matches. But as we have identified that in this situation it may cause harm to the general public then as a grown up society we put Laws in place for the good of that society.
I grew up in the East of Scotland with an alcoholic father who was in the pub more than at home. Both of my grandfathers were alcoholics and I have been told were ready to lift their fists to their wife and children. Ok they were not at football matches before they did this, they were just ordinary frustrated poor working men who drank too much and hit too often.
So I say we as a society must protect each other from the misuse of alcohol and if we as a society find it necessary to protect ourselves from football associated drunkenness we MUST do it.
Great article, totally agree
Also drinking while driving should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do.
Also drinking while in hospital should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do.
Also drinking while at work should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do.
Also drinking while beating your spouse should be allowed, if you don’t like alcohol, don’t drink it, don’t bring in nanny state to tell people what to do.
Pillock
@Hobbit
I think quite a lot of rugby fans are players, former players, or people who have hung around grass roots rugby clubs and bought into the culture.
Over centuries there has been a continual population exchange between Scotland and Ireland, and not necessarily to either’s advantage…
I think Ian MacDonald has some good points about the way referees are treated in football. I can think of no other sport where players are allowed to be so openly hostile to the referee/umpire/whatever without any danger of being reprimanded for it. That tells the fans that it’s okay to react the same way. Also, segregating the fans encourages an “us vs them” attitude.
Football’s basically set up to make confrontation part and parcel of the game. You’d think the same would apply with something like boxing, but the lack of a team element means people don’t take it personally when the fighter they’re supporting is deemed to have been wronged or whatever – like when Aberdeen are denied a penalty against Celtic or something, since the fans feel they’re a part of Aberdeen FC, they’re also being wronged. But if Andy Murray is denied an “out” call, it’s him that’s denied, not his fans.
Or something like that anyway.
Of course you could ban the root course of the sectarian/drink worry by eliminating Organised Religion possibly by admitting the irrefutable proofs that are it’s all made up nonsense originally designed to control the masses which today many more people throughout the world are waking up to. We used to worship bits of wood, stones, the sun, now we know better, do we? My god’s better than your god and i’ll fight you to prove it, i mean let’s face it everybody knows that the real God lives in America coz they’re right about everything. So let’s have a pint of Murphy’s and see you in the Royal Infirmary after the GAME? Rugby? don’t make me laugh any louder, the only reason there is less fighting off the pitch is coz they’re kicking lumps out of each other on the bloody pitch but thats alright it’s a gentlemans game and we keep the violence under control ourselves so that’s OK then. JEEZ.. The more stupid the belief system the more stupid the justifications are for stupidity..Too much? i’m away to a dark room now..
So Labour’s divide and rule policies continue…
Uncle Bob, I totally agree and may I add when we in Scotland can grow up and stop using alcohol badly as a crutch I would say then we can return to allowing it at football matches.
From my experiences most of the supporters still drink, just not at the match, it goes in, inside them.
If you see how other nations manage it, they eat in other countries as well as drink, we need to cultivate this.
O/T
Look at the rev’s twitter feed. People have died today in Glasgow and the Herald newspaper is using the tragedy to promote Murphy. Words truly fail.
Is there no depth that Jim Murphy will not sink to.
The man turns my stomach.
As a child in the seventies I saw what alcohol did in football grounds and it was frightening. All my adult life I have gone to the football and been quite happy not having a pint until after the game.
I don’t see the point of allowing drinks at games. Most of the time it is too bloody cold for a drink and the toilets have queues. As for allowing the sectarian chants… Murphy is a tube.
@Martin McDonald @12.29
Another one for your list might be the time people’s favorite Red Ken Livingstone along with Tony Benn and others tabled Early day motion 991 against Murphy (link to parliament.uk)as follows:
MR JIM MURPHY AND THE NATIONAL UNION OF STUDENTS
Session: 1995-96
Date tabled: 12.06.1996
Primary sponsor: Livingstone, Ken
That this House condemns the intolerant and dictatorial behaviour of the President of the National Union of Students, Mr Jim Murphy, who has unconstitutionally suspended NUS Vice President, Clive Lewis, because he took part, in a personal capacity, in an open debate at Queen Mary and Westfield College on the issues raised by the Campaign for Free Education; further notes that along with President Elect, Douglas Trainer, both men have warned NUS Executive member, Rose Woods, that if she attends the Scottish launch of the Campaign for Free Education she too will be suspended from the NUS Executive; reminds Mr Murphy and Mr Trainer that freedom of speech is a right in the United Kingdom, that they have no power to overturn the results of elections that went against their preferred candidates and that, whilst these methods are a common practice in dictatorships around the world, they are not acceptable behaviour from someone such as Mr Murphy who is putting himself forward as suitable for election to the House of Commons.
@Training Day
We all know Jim Murphy is a horrible, manipulative individual who will stoop to almost any stunt to get himself publicity. The Herald and Murphy should be ashamed of themselves.
I echo the comments on here about Murphy being mentioned in relation to George Square tragedy today. Think about it, he had to have called them to let them know he was in the vicinity.
Or was he called to find out if he was? The man is a rank opportunist and so is the Herlad on this occasion.
It’s not all about you Jim. W***er.
As an aside, Ruth Davidson was on the radio saying she was in Argyll Street at the time, but unlike Murphy did not make any attempt to make anything of it. So Murphy cannot even conduct himself in the same professional manner as Ruth Davidson.
When Morrisey wrote meat is murder he followed it through by NOT EATING MEAT!
When a Goody two shoes Tea Totter spouts about the poor fitba fans not having a swally it spells out LOUD AND CLEAR the sheer hypocrisy of aforesaid Goody two shoes Tee Totaller.
Anyone can see that surely?
Anas Sarwar came across well in his interview as well. What is going on in Murphy’s head? He always wants to get publicity even in emergency situations. This is my last post on this topic because it should be all about those who have died, the injured, and the families of all those affected.
You would think most people would see through what Murphy is up to here. If he said it was raining, you would look out the window.
Slab working overtime on the George Sq tragedy. Murphy, Sarwar, and Ian Davidson all on either BBC or Sky. Although’ I think it is Sarwars constituency?
Oi Oi. You can be sure this site is being read and analysed by the other side. Here we are again discussing somewhat heatedly, Skeletor. Why? He is dictating the agenda. He has chucked a hand grenade into the crowd which forgot on 18th September that some were Irish, others Poles, many English, Pakistani, Chinese, etc. On that day we were all Scots. People who lived in a place that should be ruled by those same people who live in that place.
I don’t like my civil liberties eroded. Surely the right to self determination is right up at the top of that list?
As a rule of thumb I work on you have an absolute right to harm yourself but not to harm others. So take drugs, drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, shout at your telly in the comfort of your own home. But respect others right not to be part of that.
No drink driving – it leads to accidents- often fatal. No battering the wife and weans or some child who has the wrong colour of scarf on. No smoking next to me on the bus or train or cinema or restaurant or hospital. No stealing to feed your habit. No cat calling because someone is gay or black or has a different skypixie to you.
Murphy has some of you here at each other’s throats. Thats what they want. They want to sow division. Forget the man. He may not even be an elected politician at all in 6 months.
Sometimes we need to be protected from ourselves. Our SNP Government wants a better life for all our people. Sometimes they enact laws which piss some of us off ( plastic bloody bags! ). But these things are debated. They follow expert advice, listen to the police and the medical profession. They are not trying to be repressive. They are trying to make our country better for children, women, minorities, and even though we resent it, they are trying to get us to help ourselves. Other Parties look to put personal and Party advantage first. Who is better for us?
Am I right in remembering that the Offensive Behaviour… legislation is under review by the Scottish Parliament? Seems more sensible than just binning it
Murphy would do well to remember that average attendance at SPL matches last season was only eight thousand and something. Football is incredibly popular of course, but going to it isn’t, so the proportion of the electorate who would “benefit” from this is tiny. Wasn’t it Labour who accused the SNP of being obsessed with “wee things”?
I remember very well going to football on a regular basis when people were regularly intoxicated and then further filled up on booze within the stadium.. It did not take much to start trouble, and the drink inflamed the situation. You will all remember the pitch invasions, and hand to hand or bottle to bottle exchanges that went on .I am sure supporters of some clubs have never had such problems, but when you remember trying to shelter your 6 year old son from a hail of bottles and missiles thrown by inebriated opposition fans, then the allowing of drink at matches does not work for mw. We have improved so much, so why go back?. p.s. I also remember drunks pissing down your leg trying to aim for the opening in a can, as they were too drunk to reach the toilets.
Just been over to the wings Twitter page, it seems that the Herald is trying to have us beleave that Jim takes a photographer around with him as it says he looked shocked, how could they tell? In fact how could they know anything unless someone told them, wonder who?
The football v rugby one is interesting. This respect culture in rugby argument doesn’t wash with me. Seen far too many boorish rugby lads “taking over” pubs and getting a bit too close to being rapey for me to believe that. I suspect lack of a bipartisan sectarian history is the key. I’m not saying that they weren’t sectarian, just that they were sectarian the same way.
Don’t worry about the media-Murphy-Fest, folks, it’s totally counter productive. Currently 75% of the Scottish population have no interest in voting for SLab or Murphy. The Labour run Daily Record, BBC Scotland and now weekday Herald shoving them down our throat at every opportunity won’t do anything to endear them to us. The more they are shoved right in our faces the more we will be turned off. I’m actually finding Murphy a bit sickening now.
I quite like the idea that not being able to buy a drink for less than two hours is “suffering”
Are we bringing back smoking in public places next?
Why does he even mention he walked across the square an hour ago? (If he was there)
Disgusting human being
Murphy may well be reputed to be a Blairite, but he’s a Blairite attempting to appear to be dressed in old Labour’s sheep’s clothing, hankering after the control over those who he thinks would vote ‘old’ Labour. If only he could convince them that he could deliver the doctrine of ‘old Labour’.
The Labour Party who, in certain constituency areas, their politicians saw themselves as feudal Lords. Where Labour called the tune like a ‘Labour Mafia’.
Where their constituencies were likened to miniature Soviets and where in some cases, votes were reputed to have been weighed, rather than counted and sometimes seats were handed down from father to son.
Maintaining control by policies affording benefits negating responsibility for self respect through working practices.
The Scottish electorate are no longer vulnerable to those ancient by gone Labour policies. They have learned not to trust Labour anymore, having lived through the Blair era.
Murphy is batting on a muddy wicket with a broken bat, if he thinks he can hoodwink us as his predecessors did.
Murphy and his ilk are a busted flush in Scotland. We are not so stupid as to be conned into returning to his side. Far from it.
Soar Alba.
@davidb. Thank you. Wise words and well said.
A wee reminder to all our proud flagpole owners, if you haven’t already thought of it, time to go out and lower the flag.
Just watched the BBC, yes I forgot to change channels, were they were reporting on the Gorge Square tragedy,
Comments from David Cameron-Tory, Willie Rennie-Liberal, Jim Murphy- Red Tory, and Ruth Davidson, Branch Tory.
Unfortunately some other Local Partry, who are in Scottish Government, and with more members than all of the other wasters put together, didn’t get a chance to comment.
Good old Biased as Hell English Broadcasting Corrupted at their best.
Surely there’s a case for serving cocktails at football matches?
Football crowds can be scary for the uninitiated. The threat of violence and intimidation particularly at bigger games is no illusion and ” mind the wean ” may not be enough to keep a parent safe from unwarranted abuse. I have stood on terraces and seen plenty of serious assaults by drunken “fans”. Let’s not bring drink back to the mainstream . leave it to the freeloading prawn sandwich brigade and gannets.
I’m sure the people of Scotland will have their own views on certain politicians eager to appear so soon on television at such a sad time.
Paula Rose says:
Surely there’s a case for serving cocktails at football matches?
Depends, wie black/green olives or red cherries
@Effigy
Sandra White was the first politician interviwed on Reporting Scotland. I thought they covered it professionally.
They also showed interview with Nicola Sturgeon as well. I could not fault their coverage today.
Murphy out with his begging bowl…
Labour’s newly-elected Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has told his party’s major donors and fundraisers that he needs to find £1m to combat the rising fortunes of the SNP.
link to archive.today
A song which could be about a certain branch manager.
(Names have been changed to protect the innocent/guilty.)
link to youtube.com
I like the idea of fans having little umbrellas to wave.
Fur fuck sake have the TV companys no have enough reporters to cover the events of Queen St tragedy but they bring in Anas Sarwar, the last person that that scene needs is a politician & Police to be on guard in case he needs protection. fucking moron
To be fair to Reporting Scotland, the reporting on the tragedy in Glasgow was handled well.
brilliantly 100% accurate
Ronnie honey – dry martinis with black olives!
I suppose there’d be a problem with serving all those cocktails in 15 minutes – any ideas?
At first glance I thought Jim Murphy’s football strip’s logo said “National Git.”
As all sensitive and sane folk know, the story is the tragedy for the people in the accident and their relatives, our hearts go out to them.
Think this will backfire on Murphy because I do think the vast majority will be disgusted by his opportunism.
Folk on twitter are giving the Herald pelters for including Jim Murphy in this, so just out of curiosity I checked the Herald on-line and there are about 5 comments – one from the ever present Kelly from Wexford despairing on what Scotland has become since the 18th.
Got a feeling the moderators have been working overtime.
Paula Rose,
Cocktail waitresses?
liz,
I had a comment deleted from that story. I felt the headline was a little unfair to Mr Murphy and made him sound like an ambulance chaser. I guess it was the no criticism of the Herald rule.
Paula Rose says:
22 December, 2014 at 7:17 pm
😀
When I posted at 1.57pm about Skeletor’s coincidental appearance at the Clutha, little did I know what was about to unfold in Geo Sq
However it was reported today, we all know who will be the main person commenting on BBC Scotlandshire tomorrow…
@ cearc hen – sort of strutting the terrace?
Offering cherries, umbrellas and olives?
Scottish media on fast dial to Mr Murphy to alert him to any possible media opportunity perhaps?
Paula Rose,
Absolutely. Serving them in the stands!
Wow Murphy has us all talking about football and beer and not important shite.
Not bad for a week in.
At Glebe Park ( home of Brechin City ) we’ve had canapés all season to great effect. Also we’re the only team in Europe with a hedge – a lot to be said for that.
Chitterinlicht honey – we’ve moved onto canapés and cocktails!
Fine wines and lovely food – who needs football?
I’ll give Murphy two months and then they will be wishing they hadn’t manufactured his elevation.
He is so evidently insincere and so obviously self serving that he can’t survive in the frontline spotlight he actually seeks.
No sooner had he appeared at George Square than the twitterati was alive with dismissive and even abusive comment
“Guess who’s turned up” was the cry. It looks very much like our TV bosses have pulled him now as they worked out how crass it all was.
Glasgow Evening Times
link to eveningtimes.co.uk
O/T Tried to post this in Off Topic, being told I already said it, so will give it a go here.
In 1970 I wrote a fan letter to Morecambe & Wise at the BBC, hoping for an autographed pic of my comedy heroes and included an idea for a sketch based on The Monks characters. I received a contract from the BBC for the idea and it has been made and shown several times over the years. It is called ‘Beer From Candlesticks’.
About 18 months ago, letters turned up in London where my kids live with their mum, as well as in Dundee. During the making of Morecambe & Wise In Pieces an assistant producer had found my original letter and was trying to trace me for permission to use it.
When I spoke to the assistant producer I told her the story and gave my permission. They offered a fee for using my letter but I asked for a credit instead, so I’m assured that the script has been altered to say something about the viewers taking the characters to heart and thanking me for my bit.
Past experience tells me not to count my chickens, particularly after a couple of false starts in the intervening 18 months, but Morecambe & Wise In Pieces; The Sketches airs on BBC2 at 6.15pm on Christmas Day.
I will be recording it and once again remembering how much I worshipped Eric and how he spoke right to me the way only true artists can.
If you look carefully at that photo of Murphy, you’ll see that he has his fingers crossed. It’s going to take more than a belief in luck to rekindle Scotland’s interest in labour. Frankly, when your political influence is as weak as Murphy’s, your time is better spent kicking a ball about.
Murphy being criticised on twitter and facebook, but some ass—e has also written a comment re the incident today in Glasgow which has been picked up by FACEBOOK SNP, and passed to police. This comment is creating a lot of bad feeling including from myself. Just needed to vent so if I am o/t sorry
The Herald is editing comments about, well anything, as usual.
Their leading a terrible story about how a Labour politician reacted to it, has bit them on the bum, but their band of merry moderators keep on going…
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 22 December, 2014 at 2:03 pm:
<i"Aye, doubtless that’s why after 100 years it had been completely eradicated at football. Piss off with this shite old argument, eh?"
Well said, Rev Stu. I had planned on a reply to these folks. Mind you I’d planned on being a wee bit more diplomatic about it. I just couldn’t find the diplomatic words to be do so.
Having worked in criminal law for several years, I know just how big a problem alcohol is in society as well as pretendy football supporters who use a game as an excuse. Having said that, I think OBFA’s unnecessary as the law already covered it. I also think that sometimes government, judicial or police intervention in these matters just makes people feel like they’re being picked on and that they’re being cool and rebellious if they go against it so it can do more harm that good at times. I still think society is the best police of this kind of behaviour; I think if it becomes truly unacceptable and embarrassing to act this way then people will (mostly) stop doing it, as we saw with the drink driving campaign.
Having said all that, I think the SG brought in the legislation to get a conversation going and to change society’s acceptance of this kind of thing. It seems to be working. And, at least, they’re trying to do something about it. Unlike Murphy who’s jumping on a bandwagon, as usual, without thinking about the real issues.
I also see that the media are trying to make a saint out of Murphy again by having him at the scene of another tragedy. I think they think that people can’t see through the fakeness and the opportunism but they’ll be wrong. It’s just vulgar, callous and disgusting and unless I see him in a cape with his underwear over his tights soon, I’ll start to wonder why he always “just happens” to be there and whether he’s getting phone calls from the media to make himself look better.
They did absolutely everything to ‘win’ the referendum and they will do absolutely anything to get their MPs elected in 2015.
Let us also do absolutely everything to defeat every single one of them in 2015.
@Paula Rose.
Cocktail sticks are sharp objects and will be confiscated.
@Rock (9.52) –
Hear hear to that.
Keep the eyes on the prize folks, and we make history in May.
Do the Herald / Evening Times not take into consideration that Buchanan ST, George Square are covered by CCTV camera,s, not forgeting the members of the public. Murpy is a person thats hard to miss on a crowded street.
I,m sure all Wingers will be thinking of the dead & injured &
our thoughts and prayers are with them & their familys.
Jim Murphy was on Tam Cowan and Stuart Cosgrove’s footy show on Saturday (dinner time) Jim’s got a new book out “10 games that changed the world (cribbage, tiddlewinks, snap, hopscotch etc) The show consisted mostly of Jim droning on and on (uninterrupted of course) sounding like a quack medicine salesman.
Tam asked Jim did he spend 9 years at University leaving without a degree. He said this wasn’t true!
Stuart put it to Jim that he had been exaggerating the membership of the Scottish Branch….Once again Jim denied the accusating
“Keep the eyes on the prize folks, and we make history in May.”
Aye right. Like you did in September.
“Free by 93”, remember?
@brotyboy, 9:24: I’d be surprised if the BBC didn’t honour your wishes. They’re not all evil Britnats, most of the working stiffs (American phrase) are genuine people trying to do a good job. I remember the sketch, so major kudos for an inspired sight gag.
Hagbard Celine spouts hatred: </i)
Do you mean like, 'Better together' – which morphed within twenty-four hours into 'English votes for English laws?' There's a link there – England in control at all times.
@Hagbard Celine –
Ooooh! That’s me telt, eh?
Wee Jock: They’re not all evil Britnats [at the BBC]
No one on the Yes side claims they are, but they don’t seem capable of resisting the political excesses of their bosses, do they? Has to be a ‘ethos’ problem there.
Hagbard Celine: “Free by 93?, remember?
How about, ‘There will be NO new powers for Scotland’?
I loved that one.
@Hagblard Celine,
You appear to be needful of some education and therefore I refer you to the esteemed James Kelly…
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Merry Xmas and a Good New Year for Scotland.
Being a female a 30+ year supporter and a season ticket holder at DAFC.
I well remember drunken supporters and the aggression and in some cases the thugishness that went with it, especially before segregation was introduced and it most certainly was not a place that I would ever have contemplated taking my young daughter to.
The overall atmopshere at most games is now more family orientated and to bring back alcohol to games would take that away, and it’s not as if you CANNOT drink at football stadiums. You can before and after the game and and also at hospitality.
It is just like smoking. What’s a couple of hours?
Also when it comes to sectarianism that is one thing that should be kept out of society all together. There is no place in this day and age for it in any way, shape or form.
@Socrates MacSporran
“I have long felt, doing away with denominational schools might lessen the examples of religious bigotry, but, since so-much of such behaviour is learned in the home, it will not eradicate it totally.”
I disagree with your take that eradicating denominational schools could lessen bigotry. I am an atheist, but I was brought up as a Catholic, and sent to Catholic schools, but the “separation” only existed for a few hours each day. Children are able to be reacquainted with their friends after school hours, during weekends, and during holidays, so I do not believe that faith schools are much of a problem, whether they be Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh or whatever other religion.
However, I do agree with you that the problem lies in the home upbringing. Sectarianism beliefs are largely as a result of the home-based teachings by prejudiced parents or guardians, and not of the schooling system, and as children approach adulthood, they are then able to make their own choices – follow the prejudices instilled in them by the parents or guardians, or adopt a more tolerant approach. In other words, in adulthood, it’s all down to the individual, and how that individual chooses to lead his/her life.
PS The link to your blog doesn’t work!
Gary C says:
This is poor Rev. Not only poor but lazy.
I expect much better quality and sharper analysis from WoS.
To call others lazy but don’t even bother to give a counter argument is pretty stupid.
The anti-sectarian laws must stay. Anything else is regressive. I’ve being going to football matches for a long time (Partick Thistle) and I’ve experienced all the crap on many an occasion. It is disgusting, and the police always said there is nothing they can do. Now there is. It’s an embarrassment and shame of the nation. If Celtic fans want to win the morale high ground against Sevco then support the law and let your rivals hang themselves.
The law is here, I wonder which part anyone disagrees with? If it is the implementation where the problem lies then fight that battle, otherwise to take it to the extremes, the answer to a wrongly convicted murderer would be to drop murder as a crime.
The alcohol is a different situation. It should be a much more granular ban, and those fans (the majority) clearly should be allowed to consume alcohol if they wish. Surely it is not difficult to use experience to know where the problems lie. The law is there to crack down on
Looks like the problem will be solved when Rangers go down the tubes. Sectarian never pays. It’s old fashioned. Sectarianism has held Scotland back.
Please stop showing the photo of the vacant coupon of a racist who supports the apartheid State of Israel and the murder of millions of innocent people in the Middle East. The hypocrite who doesn’t drink but secretly misappropriates £Billions from the Public purse and Scotland (The McCrone Report) and the lying murderous liar Blair. Frausters should be put in jail. Murphy and his associates are above the Law and get away with murder.
Football (proportionately) is in decline. Thry have priced themselves out of the market. Too greedy. Sectarism never pays A tax should be put on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol in Scotland, to save people lives and £1.5Billion. Murphy is a ‘loss leading’ half wit. Cheapskate.
There was no need for sectarian Laws. Scotland is a secular country. Murphy thinks he is above the Law. No drink at football was brought in for a reason by Unionists, to stop crime. It was (lapsed?) Catholic ministers in the Scottish Gov who brought in sectarian Laws, to prevent offence to Catholics. There were already Laws in place to prevent offensive and criminal behaviour, if enforced with due care and diligence. The Churches already have privileges above the Law. The equal opportunities Employment Law. Orange Marches should be banned in Glasgow. They already are in other parts of Scotland . A total waste of Public money (policing etc)
The ban on Alcohol at football matches should stay. It was brought in by Unionists politicians, to
prevent crime. Lennon and McCoist have both resigned. Sectarianism doesn’t pay and holds the economy back. Out of time and out of date. Make it history. Is this the best Labour Unionists can do, a cheating lying racist who wants to stir up sectarian hatred. Make them history, so Scotland can prosper become more equal and free. Respect to Glasgow. All sympathies for the reason tragedy.
Oh, it’s going to be a joy watching Murphy over the next 6 months
An acquaintance was in the vicinity of George Square. A terrible tragedy for Gasgow and it’s wonderful people. Condolences. Stay strong, we are hurting together.
Just on the drinking at football games issue:
Murphy tried making it a working class versus middle class issue and blundered badly.
He is trying so hard to shed his betrayal of the working class as a Westminster MP, that he hasn’t thought through the strength of feeling about the issues related to drink at football.
He is also completely wrong about the claim that it is only the middle class supporters who are able to drink at football.
For those who don’t do football:
Fans can pay extra to get into a special area of the stadium that sells drink. It isn’t usually a bar as such but the drink is free and comes as part of a package that includes drink food and a seat in the best stand. the drink is served from a starting time (about two hours before the game, but stops about 10 minutes before the game kicks off.
The fans must wear shirt and tie and other dress codes.
If you go on any football fan forum you will see fans who are clearly from working class backgrounds telling other fans they are going to be in this area and asking ‘who else is in?’
There are areas that sell drink that would tend to be where you would find the more affluent fans, this will be the directors or executive boxes.
So yet again Murphy is lying…but he is a Labour politician and this is what they do.
If your looking in and vote Labour, I will just ask:
If you vote for liars, why do you complain when politicians don’t answer questions or don’t tell the truth?
They do this because people like you let them away with it!
It’s the default setting for Labour’s Scottish branch office: If the SNP support it, they oppose it, no matter what, i.e. “SNP bad”. Be prepared to see this football playing image ‘ad nauseum’. The younger male generation will simply laugh, and probably think, ‘Look at the old geezer, trying to recapture his youth’! The older male generation will think, ‘Calm down, dear, the bird of youth has flown & ye’re fooling nae’bdy’! Females, of every age, will simply think, ‘Phoney’! There doesn’t seem to be a male equivalent term for the pejorative, ‘mutton dressed as lamb’ phrase, but certainly Murphy epitomizes that male equivalent. This whole imagery reminds one of aging lothario Donald Trump types. But instead of looking ‘virile’ (as he clearly thinks he is)!, he simply appears a little sad & desperate. Could some young whippersnapper please ‘ca the legs fae’m’ & end this embarrassing spectacle. Big, big female vote turn-off. Delighted, though, that Labour, just keeps shooting itself in its over-inflated, egotistical foot!
Murphy’s comments were idiotic and pathetic. Scottish football is safer as a result of the ban of alcohol. To portray it as a social injustice cos posh folk are allowed to do it at the rugby is beyond contempt. How many riots have there been at a scottish rugby match? How many women get battered when we lose a six nations game? Hullo???? Nice try Jim, but that was pure jobbies.
It’s not a class issue. I’ve had the crap beaten out of me but I’ve not had to face it again the next day, or the day after. Anything that can stop anyone being a victim of violence has to be positive, and that includes limiting alcohol consumption.
Murphy will latch onto anything that he thinks may be a vote winner, he’s desperate, his job is at stake
Don’t let him win
Very best wishes to you, Stuart,for Christmas and the New Year!
I hope you will continue in the same vein throughout 2015, and thereafter, until such time as we achieve Indepedence.
C.P. Kearney.
Its not an old firm game, it cant return as half of the old firm were liquidated and no longer exist.
SLAB have long profited from the sectarian divide and it is in their interest to perpetuate it. To me the legislation needs strengthened, not repealed.
As for the boozing at the games, Scottish football cleaned up it’s act many years ago. We don’t need a return to the 1690’s via Creepy Jim’s hamfisted attempt to win the drunken bigot vote.
I continually hear the cry that this is a class thing, that the toffs can imbibe at the rugger, but the working class must watch the football without booze. Football is a game where passions run high and unlike rugby it does not need alcohol to create an atmosphere. Except possibly in Stenhousmuir.
I agree with you Marco McGinty. Sectarianism is inbred.