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The Legacy

Posted on December 21, 2014 by

Iain Macwhirter in “Disunited Kingdom” (Cargo Publishing, 8 December 2014):

“It seems clear that the newspapers allowed their editorial agendas to get in the way of their communication with their readers. And this has had very serious consequences.

There is now a very large body of people in Scotland who are deeply disillusioned with the press, to such an extent that they simply no longer believe what is written there.

Look at any of the internet sites related to the Yes campaign and you will now find, not just criticism of mainstream media but a complete rejection of it, as if it were the propaganda arm of a foreign power.

This degree of alienation from the press, shared by hundreds of thousands of Scottish voters, is unprecedented and should be causing alarm, not just in editorial offices, but in the political parties which are also losing their ability to communicate. “

It’s a difficult assessment to dispute.

We sped through “Disunited Kingdom” in a couple of hours last night. At just 151 pages of main text it’s a lean and punchy read, and we’d highly commend the e-book edition in particular at just £3.59 (at time of writing). While it covers familiar ground there’s stuff in there even we didn’t know, but mainly it serves as a very good concise summary of the referendum campaign, the immediate aftermath and the near future, seen chiefly but not solely through a media perspective.

We suspect that newspapers like the Daily Record with its already-infamous “Vow”, and the Sunday Telegraph with its appalling and hypocritical “dead soldiers” front page days before the vote, feel that the end justified the means, and that all that ultimately mattered was saving their precious Union. (Indeed, the Telegraph’s Scottish editor Alan Cochrane has already said so in almost those words).

But what Macwhirter identifies (and supports in the book with a considerable weight of documentary evidence) is that the long-term damage done to the mainstream Scottish media – and in the end, the Union itself – may be incalculable and irreparable. And what his book demonstrates is that if that turns out to be the case, that damage will be self-inflicted and richly deserved.

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    231 to “The Legacy”

    1. Wee Jonny says:

      Disunited Kingdom will be bought and read in the bath tomorrow.
      The thing is the papers don’t seem to be learning any lessons. Their circulation figures are dire but they’re still printing pish everyday. You’d think that they’d see The National and Sunday Herald’s figure and change tact but……….. Fuck them!!! They’ve made their beds, let them pish in it.
      “there’s stuff in there even we didn’t know” Now that shocks me Stuart.

    2. jimnarlene says:

      Hell may mend them but, they will never be forgiven.

    3. Capella says:

      Will get the Kindle version though I have my reservations about Iain Macwhirter who seemed to sit on the fence for a very long time during the campaign before coming out as a lukewarm YES. I guess he is really a Devo Max fan.
      But if he is identifying the fact that we no longer consume Pravda with relish then that is worth saying. Let’s hope the new taste for reality spreads.

    4. heedtracker says:

      The next few years in Scotland are going to be a test on whether or not Scottish democracy can really be closed down by Project Fear via the BBC, STV, ConDem’s, Labour in Scotland under Murphy, all newspapers etc. It worked 18th Sept. They must be very confident.

    5. Brian Powell says:

      Yes, as a long time believer in the ‘integrity’ of the BBC and someone who afforded the Guardian respect, I now consider them of little or no value. Their whole news, not only in the UK but world news, is tainted by the possibility of an agenda.

      There was a time when the Times carried a reputation of.accurate news coverage, despite its editorial stance. But, apart from the coverage of our Ref, academics and politicians from Catalonia, wrote to the editor asking him to stop his journalists briefing against the Independence Ref there.

      Interesting, as a life long supporter of Labour, at least until 5 or 6 years ago, I found my belief in Labour politicians has gone. When the Ref debate started I thought there would be an open debate in Labour with some speaking for the benefits of Independence. (As Robin Cooke once demonstrated). What I got was a party strangled by tactics and desperate self interest. Voters interests didn’t figure, only retaining their votes.

    6. And yet folk continue to buy them. Two rock solid Yes voters in my immediate family – one buys the Depress, the other buys the Rectum in spite of my protests. “I like the crossword” and “I like the fitba coverage.”

    7. No no no...Yes says:

      Quite clearly MSM propoganda, abuse of power and political interference were more important than giving their readers a balanced view. Even if they had given the Yes campaign limited coverage, but pushed their preferred No option, it might have enough to stem their terminal decline. Serves them right in my opinion. Anyway, an unintended consequence of their folly is that we now have The National. Onwards and upwards.

    8. Craig P says:

      It’s a good read, don’t know how he managed to turn out such a well-written, informative book in such a short time. Suppose being an experienced journalist helps.

      Most interesting to me was his analysis of the Scottish reaction to the ‘no currency union’ promise by Osborne, Milliband and Clegg. He is of the opinion that the currency issue may have won the referendum, but by threatening Scots, the union has been doomed medium to long term. The unionists I know gloated about the currency issue, but maybe they are not indicative of the soft nos who might make up a considerable chunk of the electorate.

      It was also interesting seeing things from an indy-lite perspective, someone whose preferred settlement is federalism and who is not ideologically hostile to either Scottish self-determination or to the union.

    9. Keith says:

      Next time, I’ll no leave it to chance. I’ll come home and vote #Indyref2

    10. Capella says:

      I posted a link in the previous thread to a Mail on Sunday article by Peter Hitchens highlighting Western propaganda against Putin (ironic I know).
      Hichens is accused in the comments of succumbing to RT propaganda! But if he is watching the latest Keiser Report he will hear a detailed analysis of the “currency war” now being waged against Russia.
      Scotland is certainly a target of the propaganda machine, once described by an American General as “expendable.”

    11. tartanfever says:


      Iain MacWhirter openly said he was a devo max supporter many months before the referendum and then he moved to a Yes vote as unionist parties failed to promise any real powers in their various devo proposals.

      I don’t think there’s anything to have reservations about his stance, he’s been pretty open about it.

    12. Macart says:

      I have no words to express the degree of utter contempt I hold for our media. Broadcast or print, makes no difference. They let corporate and political agenda get in the way of doing the job. They wilfully and deliberately participated in a campaign of misrepresentation, deception and demonisation.

      They were quite happy to not only allow a very one sided and socially destructive narrative to be presented by Westminster and Better Together, but used their own commentary and resources to underline this narrative. If certain titles or individuals go down the crapper? I’ll lose no sleep.

    13. I’m increasingly of the opinion that we have little chance of achieving independence if the BBC is allowed to remain in its current form in Scotland.

      It’s level of pro union propaganda is overwhelming and constant. Whilst usually subtle, when it does become blatant there is no meaningful complaints procedure or accountability.

      At large, there is a general understanding that each newspaper has a bias, usually reflecting the agenda of the wealthy owners. The BBC, however, continues to carry a common perception amongst the general pubic of being truthful and neutral.

      Several NO voters, I have spoken to, cite their reasons for being NO as views they received from the BBC, not the facts behind the propaganda. For too many the BBC is beyond question, and as such will remain an establishment liar of immense power, working against any idea of a progressive independant country.

    14. Mealer says:

      Unfounded Fear won the referendum for the Brits.The media played a big part in spreading that fear.I won’t forget or forgive them.

    15. George Ferguson says:

      Hypothesis: The BBC swung the vote from YES to No for around 1 to 3% of the electorate in the final week of the campaign. I cant make my mind up whether to research this hypothesis or not. People have said to me they changed their mind as a direct result of a particular piece of BBC news. Asda putting their prices up was a case in point. The BBC with their £3.7 billion role of state broadcaster (Nb PBS America is a public broadcaster) do they care about a few hundred thousand disillusioned Scots? They don’t respond to complaints and are impervious to the concerns of their fee paying YES customers. In all walks of life the end never justifies the means. Rendition being another recent example. Well, will I test this hypothesis or not?

    16. Brotyboy says:


      My article on my no-sympathising mates;

    17. bookie from hell says:

      if you register with Amazon UK ,you can download a FREE KINDLE APP,which you can use all devices

    18. Muscleguy says:

      Unfortunately for those of us without Kindles there doesn’t seem to be an ebook in another format available.

    19. Capella says:

      @ tatanfever
      Thanks for the comment. I didn’t keep up with who was YES and who was a maybe, but found the MSM commentary dire. That had a terrific effect on the popularity of the internet and sites like WOS which demonstrates the great appetite for genuine news and analysis.
      I will read Macwhirter’s book with interest.

    20. Dinnatouch says:

      we’d highly commend the e-book edition in particular at just £3.59 (at time of writing)

      For those of us who didn’t buy into Amazon’s restrictive Kindle format, an EPUB version is hard to find at the moment, and is almost £2 more expensive when you do find a copy.

      The ebook versions of Road To Referendum (both EPUB and Kindle varieties) were appallingly badly formatted. I’m putting off buying Disunited Kingdom till I find out whether the publishers have made improvements this time.

    21. auldmcintosh says:

      to Brian Powell, might I agree with your sentiments about the “Labour Party” but my recollections go much further back than 6 years, when John Strachey was a Dundee MP and supported the working man, my dissolution was completed when John a big man in every sense struggled to extract himself from a Ford Prefect at a polling station to speak to the poor souls there handing out the “Labour” propaganda, whilst his limousine was parked out of town, the people were being deceived even then, by the millionaire’s
      in the “Labour” party

    22. Dinnatouch says:

      @ Muscleguy and both have EPUB versions. Kobo’s is £5.15, and Blinkbox is £5.99. Personally I don’t buy from Kobo because occasionally you can only read books in their proprietary reader software.

    23. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      How very true. And more and more people don’t believe the BBC either. By their own behaviour they have abandoned their credibility and this will tell in the long run.
      This might be very important in the case of Jim Murphy. It is obvious that the media an those who control it couldn’t care less whether there is a Labour party standing behind Murphy or not. Murphy is a tool or a front to be used by the establishment regardless of that.

      I’ve been amusing myself by calculating ways of describing the UK’s national debt of £1.5 trillion.
      If you were to make up bundles of £1000 notes and stand them on top of each other it would make a pile over 14 miles high. Of you were to stand £1 coins on top of each other it would go past the moon and a half again – 420,000 miles

    24. Blair paterson says:

      Watching the news on bbc scotland I have come to the conclusion that Scotland is the bad news capital of the world every time the bbc has to report something good about Scotland they will always finish it with something bad just to balance it up you understand ,may the bbc and all their reporters should feel ashamed of themselves ,but then I don’t think they have any shame, i mean lying to your own country and being paid to do so ,how do they lve with themselves…?

    25. Jim Mitchell says:

      Another problem for the media is they know that having gone as far as they did in the referendum, that there is no way back for them, that is why they haven’t even tried to back track on their views of the SNP and independence in general, they are stuck!

    26. steveasaneilean says:

      No system can be sustained on propaganda alone. The BBC has always been about propaganda – it’s the State broadcaster after all so that is its role.
      To imply that newspapers and broadcasters tell people how to vote and make them vote that way is to essentially say these people are morons.
      I don’t buy that. People voted Yes or No for all sorts of reasons and on both sides there were loads of people who would never change their minds no matter what they read or heard from any source. If people are genuinely convinced to vote in a particular way because of “propaganda” well more fool them. But I believe the numbers are small.
      I think the No outcome was a huge loss of opportunity but until we can consistently convince a significant number of Scots to vote Yes we obviously can’t win.
      Our best hope is that it becomes transparent in the coming years that things are not improving for the majority of people. It is cold, hard life experiences that will convince enough to vote Yes next time – not the banal muttering of the BBC or disingenuous scrawls of the Record.

    27. Dinnatouch says:

      Sorry, just noticed Blinkbox now seem to be restricting ebooks to their Android and iOS apps now too.

    28. Andrew Walker says:

      Donald Urquart. I am in complete agreement with you. The newspapers stance was always to be expected, although I must admit to being disappointed with the Herald and the Guardian. But the BBC was/is terrible. In particular (apart from Nick Robinson) was the constant running of a Deutche Bank report which I’m sure everyone will remember. FFS, I am getting 08##3& off just thinking about it.

    29. David Agnew says:

      The end justifies the means. But their means – their lies and relentless negativity. their constant assassination of the character of Salmond and indeed anyone who wanted independence – will always be a part of the end result.

      How you achieve something will always leave its imprint on what you achieve. The casual dishonesty matched only by belligerent imbecility is now their most defining characteristic.

      The term “You’re British, deal with it” is not used as positive term. It is now used as an insult. In some cases a threat. “You are what you do” said a certain Mr Jung, but its clear that the No campaign are unaware of what their narrow win has cost them.

    30. Capella says:

      Scotland on Sunday on secret papers released today showing how the Scottish fishing industry was betrayed by the Heath government during EU entry.
      Prime Minister Edward Heath’s officials estimated that up to half the fishermen in Scottish waters – then 4,000 men – could lose their jobs, but the decision was taken to go ahead with plans to sign up because it was believed that the benefits to English and Welsh fishermen would outweigh the disadvantages in Scotland.

    31. heedtracker says:

      The other thing what they must do is beef up Labour in Scotland MSP’s. Its probably why they’re piling in with Murphy/Dugdale duo. Tactically next few years, BBC etc continue attacking Scotland and Scottish government, not reporting SNP, monster Sturgeon etc and then at the very least a more competent or less “crap” option for the swithering Labour in Scotland unionist/phoney leftie/cringer vote. Could Labour in Scotland have been led any worse by Lamont and co?

      Its taken a very close referendum but our imperial masters are now starting to think about how best to reign over us. Project Fear needed THE VOW fraud but it worked and Murphy’s just the start. They’ll be aiming for a Labour in Scotland FM in five years with Smith farce booted out after next May GE.

    32. One_Scot says:

      For what it is worth, I have not watched any TV news outlet channels since the 18th of September, and I do not intend to ever again.

      This includes BBC news, Reporting Scotland, STV news, ITN news, Sky news, Channel four news and late night news programmes. Why, purely because they all played their part in varying degrees in preventing my children having a better future.

      This revolution in Scottish media has been a long time coming. There is no going back.

    33. Since the referendum I’ve stopped watching the BBC entirely, not just the news and current affairs.
      During the campaign my wife was watching master chef, there was a woman from EastEnders on it who said “I grew up in London but my mum was Scottish and we went there every summer, so growing up I felt I had the best of both worlds”. I very nearly put my foot through the telly.
      The bias and propaganda went through the entire programming of the corporation, I am completely finished with the whole thing.

    34. Capella says:

      @ One_Scot
      I don’t either. The above link to the SoS article appeared while searching Google for something else. But it does show how they are content to relay this type of information now when it it too late. There is a more detailed account of the EU and betrayal of Scottish fishermen in the Electric Scotland site. The information has been there and could have formed the basis of an intelligent discussion of the pros and cons of Union had the media been remotely interested.

    35. Paul says:

      You can download a free program called calibre which will convert ebooks into different formats. It will also hunt for the cheapest seller.

    36. Muiris de Bhulbh says:

      I agree with all of Donald’s (Urquhart’s) post, except ‘overwhelming’ . With the vibe that I read here most days, the politicisation of more and more Scots, as in the growth of SNP membership, the increasing outrage as more IndyRef facts come out (McWhirter etc), it is the BBC and other MSM that will be overwhelmed. They will not be able to ignore 40+ SNP MPs.

      Look up Charles Stewart Parnell’s election address in Cork in 1885, in far less democratic times. That is what will happen in Scotland..

      Independence is inevitable, the only uncertainty is will it be this decade, or the next.

      Believe, achieve, (and do it better than we have done it in Irelnd)

    37. Inky Pic says:

      Agreed! I was the first to check the BBC for all my news updates thinking it was the cornerstone of unbiased factual global reporting. After seeing the events of this year unfold, I no longer trust the old beeb at all & go elsewhere to decide what might really be going on in the world.

    38. Derick Tulloch says:

      Calibre freeware is handy to convert ebook formats

    39. Dr Jim says:

      I have never had a problem with newspapers having an opinion or indeed even an agenda but, i do have a problem with their honesty. Facts are a completely separate issue from opinion and if that’s made clear i’m ok with that, trouble is, the newspapers don’t seem to get that we know when they’re lying and that’s their downfall because now more and more people by the day are realising what the rest of us spotted during the referendum. Daily i see people standing in supermarkets reading the front pages of periodicals at the display areas but not buying them which deservedly could lead to the demise of more than a couple. This does not mean i have any sense of sorrow at their passing quite the opposite, the days of Man bites dog journalism is dying and the new media will, and is, taking over, as it should. I’m afraid, poor journo’s the cat’s out of the bag and you’ve been sussed the young people of North Britainland will not help you survive nor should they, you lied to their mums and dads daily and you won’t be forgiven, ever, and the trouble is even if you decided tomorrow to print the true facts about anything you wont be believed so Yer Stuffed whatever happens, so it’s goodbye from me and goodbye from just about everybody else…I am Alex Salmond..DOWNFALL?

    40. Josef O Luain says:

      What has always been reflected in the Scottish media has been the sheer mediocrity of Scottish political life.

      That the Scottish msm is now deemed by many of us as being unfit-for-purpose fills me with both pride in my fellow country women and men, and with great hope for the future.

      The phenomenon, to my mind, is one of those irreversible changes which have taken place within the hitherto moribund Scottish polity post September 17th.

    41. caledonia says:

      @ capella i know this was in 2003 but have sent it to a few fishermen from here (aberdeenshire)
      Just to let them see what governments are capable of when it comes to Shitting on SCOTLAND

    42. galamcennalath says:

      Macwhirter’s book sounds a huge contrast to Cochrane’s. I suppose it’s factual versus fictional!

      I must read Macwhirter’s, in one form or another.

      The title above is right – ‘The Legacy’. For a large chunk of the Scottish electorate, and it may be a majority, most of the newspapers are now certainly not treated as sources of news. Perhaps many do still buy them for crossword, sports etc … however the legacy is that for politics and social comment few trust them.

      Effectively, most outlets have just committed commercial suicide. That has puzzled me a bit, that they should put extreme support of British Nationalism before commercial viability. Perhaps they thought is was all a ‘flush of the pan’ and things would be back to normal by now. Given that Unionist parties clearly thought it was all over, the media may have thought the same.

      Well, they all got it wrong, the quest for Scottish self determination is as strong as ever. The twist in the tail might be that the extreme bias of the MSM may have played a part in strengthening and galvanising pro-indy opinion.

    43. Geoff Huijer says:

      Well the press and BBC demonstrated clearly that they are just the ‘propaganda arm of a foreign power’.

    44. scotspine says:

      The BBC et al MSM are no better than the media of an occupying power.

      For years, I got angry about news starting incessantly with for eg “In England the NHS….” or “In England and Wales, Schools….”, then we got things like storms and flooding being exclusively punted and broadcast from England, then Scotland reduced in scale on weather maps, then utter lies and deception being passed as factual news during the referendum. It apparently continues…..

      I say apparently, as I stopped watching it after the referendum and binned the TV License.

      I feel dirty having subjected myself to it and never will again.

      (For the record, none of the above is a comment against English people)

    45. badgerboydarling says:

      The Unionist Press and BBC britjock through there wilfully biased actions have basically poisoned themselves fatally, a long painful demise awaits them. The Brit London propaganda they spew and utter hostility to an independent Scotland makes me 100% certain they are a Trojan Horse of the British establishment telling there last colony what to think and do. Some gullible/hardline Unionist fools may buy it but a lot dont and are starting see them for what they are.

    46. Lanarkist says:

      The BBC in Scotland just don’t get it, still. After reviewing their coverage and audience share they decided to reorganise their output.

      They decided people liked live phone in shows and discussions about politics and life choices.

      Their solution, starting in March is to double the air time that Kaye Adams will be broadcast from 1.5 hours to 3 hours daily Mon to Fri.

      Just like their reorganisation before the Referendum when they dropped popular programmes for cheap replacements, brought radio 4 presenters in, dumbed down content they have timed the new programming to allow maximum leverage for the GE15 propaganda to be rammed home.

      Their analysis is flawed, they believe more of what drives listeners away is the answer in order to deliver more SLab content to ever diminishing listener numbers.

      Question is, have they got their sums right?

      Will there be enough Slab voters left listening to steal the seats they medal?

      BBC in Scotland will join Labour in Scotland as an echo chamber for London pronouncements and suffer the same fate. Just hope it happens before GE15 and not after.

    47. old highlander says:

      Dictatorship uk continues for now with the bombardment of negativity but it has to be destroyed,

      it’s just like eating an elephant,

      we do it one piece at a time.

    48. fred blogger says:

      old highlander
      easy for you to say, my oven’s no where nr large enough.

    49. caledonia says:

      BBC licence = no more
      Daily Record bought every day for over 30 years = never again

      best way to get back at the BBC is stop paying the licence and still watch it..ha ha

      wait a minute the above sentence might just be a lie like the BBC do all the time – then again it might not

    50. Oneironaut says:

      “…as if it were the propaganda arm of a foreign power. “

      Probably because it is…
      Are they only just noticing that?

    51. Capella says:

      BTW it’s no better on STV. I watched some on the player yesterday and was horrified by the adverts (I’d forgotten why I hate commercial TV) with an HMG advert full of we happy Brits, one nation images, multi coloured, Union Jacks galore, GB Shaw (Irish actually!) and Harry Potter, advertising superfast broadband (which France has had for over a decade).
      Though talking as if it covers the whole country it will probably, as usual, really be rolled out to the English cities before running out of cash. So we’re still better together you see. Order your Union Jack face paints for Xmas.

    52. bookie from hell says:

      1/2 way thru the book,quite good

      never realised,the herald even thou Union stance,said Federal UK way forward

    53. Iain Hamilton says:

      Dave McEwan Hill. Your illustrations of the UK national debt are awesome. Mind blown, Sir.

      I have taken the liberty of copying and pasting them to my Fb page, with full credit given of course.

      I presume (presumptuous I know) that this is ok. If not, the fb post will be removed interfrastically.

    54. hetty says:

      The internet may well come under attack however, as the unionists and their hangers on, find that their lies are exposed to the general public, well the ones who will bother to find out. We need to keep ahead of the game for sure, and we will!

    55. AnneDon says:

      Iain MacWhirter was a Federalist, and it took a while for him to decide to speak in favour of a Yes vote.

      He is also a professional journalist, and seems to be of the opinion that his views should not affect his writing. He is not a propagandist, and it’s surprising that so many people who criticise the likes to Cochrane for being so blatantly anti-indy in his writing, criticise Iain MacWhirter for not being consistently pro-indy in his writing.

      To quote a former editor of The Guardian (a newspaper I read for 35 years before abandoning it this year) “Facts are sacred, comment is free”.

      I will read Disunited Kingdom, but I would guess that the writer will be more critical of journalists who abandoned that standard of impartiality than their political masters.

    56. Clootie says:

      The key point I take from the story is that they did not win the Referendum debate. The pulled of a very successful rearguard action. They delayed the event not stopped it.

      I think they have made Independence more certain by their behaviour.

    57. Jock McDonnell says:

      Capella, it’s funny how things change, in the 90s I liked Chris Hitchens’ work & disagreed with Peter. Then Chris went all neo-con & Peter seemed more liberal on some things. That’s democratic debate I guess.

    58. Lesley-Anne says:

      As far as the print media is concerned I had no problem, per se, with them backing one side or the other in the referendum although as it turned they almost exclusively backed the NO side, Ho Hum! 😉 After all all the print media are owned by private companies, allegedly, so they are free to make their own minds up, at least in their editorials. What DID give me a daily dose of the gripes was the outright LIES that they purported to be be the TRUTH in their reports. THAT I can NEVER forgive any of them for. Private or publicly owned the very least anyone can and should expect from a newspaper is open honesty and accurate reporting.

      As far as the UKIP Channel is concerned then we are in a totally different ball park. This pathetic excuse of a PUBLIC BROADCASTER was utterly abhorrent in its reporting during the referendum. Almost every night my television lived in fear of its life when the news was on. 😛

      As a public broadcaster there are certain rules and ideals that we the viewer expect, no DEMAND from the UKIP Channel. During the referendum we never even got close. Right from day one all we ever got from the UKIP Channel was a blanket coverage of Union … GOOD S.N.P. … BAD! This was of course exasperated by the subsidiary of the UKIP Channel here in Scotland called the Labour Party Channel, only the call was Labour … GOOD S.N.P. … BAD!

    59. Aidan says:

      Liked this post as is an excellent and concise summation of the truth.
      Negative campaigning is of course only effective if not overused. The press blew everything in their panic over the referendum. They’re now left unsure, uncertain and panicking on how to proceed. Babyish bleating of recent Telegraph headlines prove that very clearly.

    60. galamcennalath says:

      “The end justified the means” … the means BT and running dogs deployed has meant they didn’t get ‘the end’ they expected! Their collective behaviour won the vote on the day, but has left no future for their Union, history books will I’m sure show.

    61. Will McEwan says:

      Iain at 1.42

      That’s fine

    62. bowanarrow says:


      Download a small program called CALIBRE.

      Calibre is a free converter program that changes any format of e-book to any other format.

    63. charles says:

      If you watch the 10pm bbc news on the day nick robinson accused alex salmond of not answering the question you will find a very unbalanced report that focused on all the negative speculation. It reported on things that could happen as if it was going to happen. If it was balanced properly we would have had a positive post yes report. Another part of that report that will stay with me forever was a string of cobbled together sectences from Alex salmonds speach that wouldnt make sense to anyone and to the viewer just made him sound like a man who didnt know what he was talking about. I cant find that news report online as it does need a full investigation.

    64. Jim McIntosh says:

      Just bought the ebook. Liked the comment below from one of the reviewers.

      “this book will mostly appeal to readers sympathetic to independence,unionist readers will probably avoid it in the same way as they would avoid looking at photos of their totalled car after a smash that they walked away from with just a bruise on the head and a plan to submit a spurious claim for a whiplash injury.”

      My interpretation of that is “I might have wrecked Scotland, but I’m alright, in fact I might be able to use this disaster to my advantage.”

    65. Training Day says:

      I continue to worry that the SNP – I’m a member for 6 years – has no strategy either in public or more crucially in private for how to deal, practically and robustly, with the monster of propaganda that is the BBC.

      Needless to say I hope I am wrong.

    66. De Valera says:

      I was cynical about most of the MSM for a few years before the referendum but I am now disgusted by them, in particular the Biased Broadcasting Corporation.

      In the car today I was listening to a phone in on a local station (West Sound), where a caller who said he was an SNP voter stated he would be voting Labour in GE because the SNP had no chance of being the “government of Britain” and that only Labour will deliver more powers for Scotland. Maybe he was a hoaxer but it filled me with a feeling of despair.

    67. Jim says:

      The next few years in Scotland are going to be a test on whether or not Scottish democracy can really be closed down by Project Fear via the BBC, STV, ConDem’s, Labour in Scotland under Murphy, all newspapers etc. It worked 18th Sept. They must be very confident.
      Murphy was on” Off the ball” yesterday, I guess trying to appeal to the ordinary punter and getting as much exposure as he wants from the biased broadcasting corporation.

    68. liz says:

      Agree about the state of the media in Scotland. The only paper I buy regularly is the National.

      The propaganda is insidious – when I was at the Doctors recently. I read a pre indy Women’s Own and lo and behold did it not have a double page spread on Kay(e) and JK Rowling giving their views on the UK.

      I know the Rev warned us that our submissions to Smith would end up in the bin – apparently none from the general public were considered – but I put a full page request with valid reasons on why the BBC should be devolved to Holyrood.

      I gave examples like the ones above re the news talking about THE NHS as if it concerned the whole of the UK and lack of opportunities for Scottish talent to be seen, eg – not that I even watch soaps but, Eastenders is shown UK wide but River City is considered to be too parochial.

      Also the Dateline Scotland team, the bloggers who give better information than the press etc etc

      You can bet there are good progs from NI and Wales that are not broadcast nationwide either – can’t have the natives getting above themselves.

      The wall to wall coverage of Murphy is doing my head in, even though I don’t listen to any of it.

      It would be useful to find out if the soft Nos or Yessers are impressed by him.

    69. RMFBrown says:

      In my mind, a lot of people are too hung up on the whole BBC issue, and have often overlooked the character of the Scottish people, some of whom were always voting No regardless of what the BBC said.

      I’ll give you an example. Two old women I spoke to agreed that trident was bad, foodbanks were terrible and that Scotland would be better off independent.

      And then they said, Aye, but, I’m voting No cos a dinnie like that Alec Sammin…

      How can you convince people like that to vote yes?

    70. The Flamster says:

      I read Iain’s book on my kindle, and he does explain what pushed him to vote Yes. Good book, good ending!

    71. Alex Clark says:

      Hope it’s not too O/T but now seems like a nice time to listen again (or for the first time) to the Rev during his phone-in appearance on Morning call with our very own Kaye.

      I’m not surprised at the limited airtime given to the Rev during the campaign as he usually skewers the interviewer.

      Here the Rev’s opinion of the intervention of Obama in the referendum and how it was contrived.

    72. farrochie says:

      Be sure of this, the Establishment parties have a grip on the UK press and TV stations. The party press relations folk will be in daily contact with their colleagues in the media, and vice versa.

      Some of the lines they use:-

      – Here’s a story
      – Don’t print that
      – We’ll give you an interview with our leader
      – Give it a different angle
      – Quote our spokesperson

      Right now we are seeing Jim Murphy being “placed”, in the manner of product placement, where branded material is strategically placed on our screens.

      So Murphy turns up yesterday on Off The Ball. Just a random selection? No way. His people would be on to their people pressing for this; he likes fitba, etc. Expect Murphy to appear for the cameras whenever there is some public event. Or, like his jogging in a Scotland top, he’ll set up the “accidental” media encounter himself.

      Be prepared for Murphy to be “placed” in every possible situation, especially on those days when Nicola Sturgeon has some good news.

      His advisers, including McDougall & McTiernan, will be ruthless in exploiting their media links and trying to create the agenda for Scotland.

    73. War by media and the triumph of propaganda

      Why are young journalists not taught to understand media agendas and to challenge the high claims and low purpose of fake objectivity? And why are they not taught that the essence of so much of what’s called the mainstream media is not information, but power?

      These are urgent questions. The world is facing the prospect of major war, perhaps nuclear war – with the United States clearly determined to isolate and provoke Russia and eventually China. This truth is being turned upside down and inside out by journalists, including those who promoted the lies that led to the bloodbath in Iraq in 2003.

    74. kininvie says:

      Extract from the minutes of a BBC trust meeting 25/09/14

      The Trust and Executive discussed the BBC’s coverage of the recent Scottish Referendum.
      The Director General said he considered that the BBC’s journalism had been of the highest order, providing excellent reporting for audiences in Scotland
      and elsewhere in the UK. The Acting Chairman thanked the
      BBC staff who had been involved in the coverage both on the day of the vote,and in the months and years preceding.
      The Trust noted that the referendum had been the most significant event in Scotland for many decades, and
      that there had rarely been such a high level
      of public engagement. As such, this had been a particularly challenging time for BBC journalists and other staff.
      The Trust member for Scotland said that it was important that the BBC continues to consider how it could best
      serve audiences in Scotland

      This is not exactly a self-critical organisation, is it? Incidentally, the ‘Trust member for Scotland’ is a Mr Bill Matthews – about whom Alex Grant on Bella had a few words to say back in 2012:

      I believe he was appointed to the Scottish Audience Council in 2011 – so there should be a new appointment imminent. It would be good to have a highly critical voice in that position – but nae chance – as the Trust controls the appointments!

    75. Clootie says:

      @cynicalHighlander says:
      21 December, 2014 at 3:03 pm

      So accurate and sad that it is so.

    76. Bob Mack says:

      @ RMF Brown.
      That is a case in point about the two old women who did not like A Salminn. This was also manufactured during the referendum by the Media, and sold on our screens as Salmond not appealing to female voters. Power of the media Eh!

    77. Truth says:

      Long before the referendum I got rid of the TV. I’m now TV free for over 4 years.

      Since the referendum I haven’t intentionally visited any UK news websites and have managed to never visit the BBC website.

      A little tip when using google. If one of your searches keeps returning bbc results just enter “-bbc” in the search box (without the quotes) and hey presto all the bbc results are gone.

      I use to catch up with the footie results now as well.

    78. BrianW says:

      @ One_Scot 12:14pm.

      I too have not watched BBC news since the referendum. Their coverage then was woeful – failing to question anything the Better Together, No Thanks uKOK side were saying at all (so Gordon, you’re complaining about the planned reduction in corporation taxes – why did you do it twice yourself, and plan for a third reduction when in power? – NOTHING FORM ANY CHANNEL)

      It’s still the same. They gave K Dugdale centre Stage when whittering on about Oil Jobs and the price of a barrel – Failing completely to point out that control over such things still lies with Westminster, and the Saudi’s failing to reduce production to push the price up – after requests form other opec producing nations. NOTHING FROM BBC SCOTLAND

      No, the BBC fail to discuss/hihglight any of these issues for Scotland is just a backwater to them, devoid of the need to explain the Global pressures on the oil price and that Westminster pulls the strings. (more interested in telling us how shortbread sales have increased in Brazil – look at us, were a Global Leader in Shortbread with a Picture of a stereotypical Piper on the front)

      C**TS !

      Sorry for bad language, but the only thing that comes to my mind when thinking on BBC Scotland.

      Oh, and at a push, I do watch ITV/STV if i have to, but nothing else. They’ve all become big business’s and the Govt’s mouth piece.

      It’s as if they’ve taken the decision that we don’t deserve any thought provoking REAL investigate journalism – we are instead fed lazy dumbed down sensationalist journalism.

    79. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day

      The thing that the Yes campaign focused on a lot, the converting people to independence by talking to them (I never liked the use of the word converting as it seems to much like missonaries during colonialism/imperialism) is it only worked to a certain extent. It fell short among the middle classes in general, as a kind of wall of silence was put up. Unfortunately Sturgeon is now urging SNP members to use the same tactic as was used in the referendum…. I am not convinced the SNP really have a good understanding of the middle class here. Many people do not like to make their political views known.

    80. heedtracker says:

      @ Jim, there’s always an upside isn’t there? So maybe 18th Sept pulled the red tory in Scotland party left a bit, or their whole red tory BBC fraud is just working even harder now. Tactically BBC and co have to make Labour in Scotland credible and pro Scottish, in ways that Labour in London decided they could not be. If they do fail to deceive, and without Gordon Brown raging for NO and THE VOW fraud coming at us, we’ll just start acting up again and we only have to win once.

      THE VOW is meaningless, even more so if latest Labour win by landslide in rancid Graun are accurate. EVEL is a con. austerity teamGB will try and mitigate the pain on vote NO middle class Scotland but they had better be doing stuff like starting college funds for their kids pronto. There is no money left.

    81. Bob Mack says:

      As anyone in Psychology will tell you, it is not always the blatant in your face obvious message that sells your product. It is the subtle stuff, like suggesting you are out of step with everybody if you do not feel the way they do. You are an outcast. The quote from a recognised expert in a particular field. Loads of this subtle programming went on amidst the obvious, and I can assure you the effect is very, very powerful. It appeals to the subconscious rather than the conscious mind, and is utilised by advertisers and companies the world over, to place their products at the fore. It continues even as I write in an attempt by the mass media to have us have doubts about our commitment i.e. NASTY CYBERNATS. This is primarily the main outlet for those who support independence, so it must be insinuated as being nasty. That is how it works .Other people who do not visit our sites will make the assumption they are indeed nasty, and judge supporters accordingly.

    82. Gallowglass says:

      I wonder if Nick Robinson got bonus for his efforts to save the Union.

      As for the BBC and STV, nothing will change until we have a mainstream alternative.

    83. Sandra Wilson says:

      I hate, loathe and despise the BBC and everything it stands for. Murphy get more air time than a newly elected female First Minister! Murphy happens to get a guest spot on a fitba’ programme. Coincidence, I think not. In the rub up to GE2015 we can expect to see and hear more or the greats Jim Murphy, the new Messiah!

    84. Capella says:

      Talking of Indy media. John Pilger is crowd funding a new film on the coming war with China. See his article with Indiegogo link:
      63% of his goal raised since 10th December.

    85. John Thomson says:

      Independence will come but we must give full support to SNP in GE2015 then full support to SNP for Hollyrood 2016 not long to go. PS support for indy, SSP, Greens etc all good but would prefer to see one flag so that all unionist parties and supporters are left under no doubt the full scale of what awaits them.

    86. Andy Nimmo says:

      To paraphrase Craig Murray at SNP TRYST BRANCH Hustings.
      “I remember after addressing a meeting in Linlithgow chatting to a former Polish Citizen and Solidarity Member who had intended to vote No due to owing a debt to Great Britain for allowing him to live here.
      He explained that he changed his mind when he realised that the scare stories generated by the Establishment re dangers to the economy, loss of jobs and pensions, relocation of business concerns were word for word ( the gentleman stressed word for word) the identical threats levied by the Soviets to influence the Polish People against breaking away.”
      On a different note have you heard Scottish Labour’s Christmas Party Ditty


      “We put our Right Present In and our Left Past Out”


      “I’ll put my Left Present In and my Right Past Out”


      “We’ll do Labour’s Hokey Cokey and shake them all about”

    87. ben madigan says:

      vello fello said “Throughout the two years of the referendum campaign Pro-Indys have complained about BBC and press bias”.

      true but the BBC is british broadcasting and it does what it says on the tin!
      you can’t expect a tin of black boot polish to do a good job on red (Devo max) or white (Indy) shoes.
      Nor can you expect it to morph into “neutral”

      Indy supporters expected an impartial examination of the prospects of Independence
      But once Independence loomed the BBC and Co rolled into anti-insurgent mode and demonstrated just how pervasive Union propaganda was/is.

      Most members of the general public who were not activists had never even considered the role/impact of the mass media in conditioning people’s viewpoints and mindsets.

      How to counteract it?
      The National is a good step forward. A radio/TV channel seem essential even though alternative sources of information are extremely good at presenting a broader outlook on issues

    88. Capella says:

      Posted this about an hour ago but it’s disappeared!
      Alex Salmond is being interviewed in SophieCo on RT on Monday.

    89. Bill McLean says:

      Huge chunks of this, and the previous thread, have disappeared. Hope it wasn’t me – I mistakenly posted the same comment twice on this one!

    90. Lollysmum says:

      @ Bill McLean

      Your post is at the end of the last thread.

    91. Capella says:

      @ Lollysmum
      I don’t see Bill’s post at the end of the last thread. There are around 2 hours of that thread and this one missing. At least on my browser and possibly also Bill’s.
      Anyone know why?

    92. Croompenstein says:

      @capella – yes something weird going on as I went in to RT through the link you posted and watched the Gorbachev interview..

    93. Bill McLean says:

      Huge chunk of “Behind the Magic” missing and about 2 hours of this one! It wisna me I hope!

    94. Capella says:

      I usually use Chrome so I just went to Firefox to check. Lollysmum’s post isn’t there! Last post on Firefox was Bill’s at 6.21pm
      Gremlins again?

    95. Seems there was an issue.

      Your PHP installation appears to be missing the MySQL extension which is required by WordPress.

      Back now though.

    96. Seems there was an issue.

      Your PHP installation appears to be missing the MySQL extension which is required by WordPress.

      Back now though.

    97. Lollysmum says:

      @ Capella

      I can still see Bill’s post on the last thread. I’m using ie9.

      You’re right about this one-I do remember it showing many more posts than it is now.

      Earlier today I couldn’t get this page or the last one to refresh at all. Had to give up, close the browser, reopen & reload again. Took about 10 minutes for pages to show.

      On Thursday morning about 3.30am I couldn’t get google to find wings server at all although it was showing in the google search listings.

    98. Natasha says:

      @Brotyboy 11.54am
      Thanks for linking to your article, I thought it was excellent.

    99. davidb says:


      The answer I gave to those who didny like Eck was “who was primeminister when you were born?” . Thatcher, Wilson, Callaghan, Eden, McMillan, Churchill? They are all dead. And Eck will die too one day. You aren’t voting for a one party state, but for who governs your country. Jim Sillars said it too. Salmond is mortal, Scotland is immortal.

      On media, I have issues with everything I read now. I suppose it is healthy to mistrust published views, but it is hard work. My biggest issue however has been “The Economist” magazine. I cannot remember when I first subscribed. Now I treat every article with the same degree of suspicion. In many cases I find myself picking holes in stories as I read. This has ruined the experience for me. I still read the online comments. I know from my own postings these are not censored. I am inclined to take the “real story” from those comments now, regarding the journalists with contempt and the assumption of being lazy newspeak purveyors.

      Jim Murphy to be fair, was telling some quite interesting tales on OTB yesterday. And Cosgrove got in some well aimed punches. But I listen regularly to that show and again to be fair, don’t recall any other “politicians wae a book tae plug” being on the gig – ‘though I’m happy to be corrected.

    100. Jamie Arriere says:

      I, like you Davidb, had a smidgeon of forbearance with Murphy appearing on ‘Off the Ball’ yesterday, as he had a book to promote (and which Cosgrove dealt with extensively thus removing the need to buy it).

      However, on second perusal, it seems this book came out in JUNE, so not exactly hot off the press

      BBC & Labour romance continues

    101. arthur thomson says:

      So important, in my view, is that Wings and other good sites are providing opportunities for the Scots to find their voice. As much as the work done by Stu – which I hugely appreciate – the comments made by more and more people are fascinating and evidence of continuing involvement. With that involvement comes increasing confidence, understanding and solidarity. We will face many disappointments on the road ahead but we can now cope with them together whereas in the past we just had to sit and greet. Every day I am so grateful that we have the internet. Together we will defeat the BBC and the rest of the British state.

    102. Tamson says:

      “But what Macwhirter identifies (and supports in the book with a considerable weight of documentary evidence) is that the long-term damage done to the mainstream Scottish media – and in the end, the Union itself – may be incalculable and irreparable.”

      The thing is, of course, that for those who own and control the mainstream Scottish media – almost all Unionists – its destruction would be acceptable collateral damage. The very existence of a mainstream Scottish media implies a distinctly Scottish point of view.

    103. velofello says:

      Eh? My post has disappeared yet ben madigan makes reference to it.

    104. Alex Clark says:


      It would seem that a number of posts have appeared only to later disappear. I didn’t see yours at all though definitely did see Capella’s, complete with link to the RT article.

      Also on refreshing the comments I have had a 503 Error as well as the PHP error mentioned by cynicalHighlander above.

    105. reginald says:

      G.A.Ponsonby has posted an appeal on Indiegogo: How the BBC stole the referendum. to pay for a book of that name.G.A.Ponsonby has been associated with Newsnet for several years and during that time has developed unrivalled expertise on the chicanery of BBC Scotland.If you demonstrated outside Pacific Quay seize this opportunity to land a well deserved blow on ‘this station like no other’.

    106. Ken500 says:

      McWhirter is a good writer but sometimes, tries so much to be impartial, gives a false account. Could be because he depends on the Unionist Press for employment. Basically needs a job so has to be lukewarm. Stand on the fence. LibDem stance, Wishy washy.

      Bateman is excellent, but delete and bans like the BBC. A long learned trait. Bateman’s been everywhere at the centre of the Universe. Bateman can speak out because he has the freedom. He doesn’t need the Unionist Press for a job. Bateman always says what everyone is thinking, only better. Right on the pulse.

      The Sunday Herald, The National is coming on. Surprisingly good. The rest of the Press/Media is rubbish. The Guardian is the only Unionist paper of any Independence of editorial and is still controlled by Westminster. When it prints the truth. Cameron/Clegg sent in the Police to trash the basement and threaten the Editor. Now retired to oversee the Trust which administrates the paper. Coincidence.

      People do not realise the close relationship Editors have with politicians. Politicians have Editors on speed dial, feeding them with propaganda. Most of the papers carry stories which are just a direct party political print out. People are sick of the Press bias. Thatcher ensured the right wing Press got far to much control. Without a balanced Press/Media there is no democracy.

    107. ben madigan says:

      @ velofello at 8:07 pm
      Don’t know about disappearing posts – hope they re-appear as people are following the various trains of thought

      had difficulty posting mine but it did go through eventually

      I just cited the first 2 lines of yours because they made me think and the outcome of my thoughts are in my post.

      best to all

    108. ben madigan says:

      had a look back at previous thread . There seem to be 4-5 hours posts missing
      Alexandra-M- posted at 2:53 pm, congratulating Craig on his work

      and then there’s a gap until 7:26 pm when Ken500 posted.

      somewhere in there I expressed my appreciation for craig’s work and the depth of his convictions, thanked whoever posted the link to the new Yew Tube video, said I had included it in
      and wished everyone a very happy christmas

    109. Kev says:

      I can only conclude that Creepy Jim’s latest suggestion that the booze ban at fitba matches should be lifted is the most desperate, cynical attempt to win back the Yes voting, working class Glasgow male to Labour next May, and hell if it means a surge in violence at matches, on the streets and against women in their own homes, then so be it, eh Jim?

      I don’t watch any news channels anymore but will assume its being left largely ignored by the MSM…if it was anyone from the SNP coming out with such a statement the BBC would be feasting off this for weeks.

    110. Brotyboy says:

      @Natasha 7.07pm

      Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.

    111. RJF says:

      And the Nats’ response to media bias is to rush out and buy ten subscriptions each to a new newspaper that openly proclaims its bias on its strapline.

      Enjoy your ‘truth’, I guess.

    112. Macsenex says:


      Re the size of the UKs national debt: would it not be more meaningful for ordinary folk like us if we calculate it on the number of Murphys rather than pounds?

      A Murphy would be equivalent to the average of his annual expense account over the last ten years.

      We just need a few of us to drop it in to genteel conversation and it would soon appear on Morning Call et al . Just think if it appeared on election literature as well.

      Dave, I’ll let you do the maths!

    113. handclapping says:

      And, as its Christmas, you enjoy your truth too.

    114. Hamish says:

      I only buy one on subscription
      My choice

      No one believes the BBC any more. Just think Almost 15 hours of the twattling of Call Kaye each week. More John Beattie asking listeners to phone in with their “really interesting” tweets and what their cats called!
      Were the Scottish people asked?
      What was this guys opinion?
      Who is this guy
      Digital radio and TV with a pro Scotland voice please!

    115. Smithie says:

      Aw thanks RJF, how nice. Happy a Merry Xmas yourself.x

    116. Wuffing Dug says:

      Get aff.
      This is not your domain.
      A reckoning is coming.

      To the last, I grapple with thee…….

      Save your bile for your unionist ‘friends’.

    117. ScottieDog says:

      Yes that’s the ‘openly’ pro-Indy paper rather pretending to be impartial like the other 30 odd newspapers.

    118. heedtracker says:

      Skype conversation with George Monbiot was interesting. TeamGB news media is light years away from what the likes of BBC say they are. Graun has really showed us its Daily Heil Conservative reality but they had had enough of Crash Gordon and co by last GE just a few years ago. But exact same crew destroyed Scottish progressive democracy over the same period and are still hard at work.

      So the likes of Brown, Flipper, creepy old Murphy were hopeless in but amazing superstars taking down Scotland. Never forget, never forgive.

    119. Jim says:

      Jim Murphy to be fair, was telling some quite interesting tales on OTB yesterday. And Cosgrove got in some well aimed punches. But I listen regularly to that show and again to be fair, don’t recall any other “politicians wae a book tae plug” being on the gig – ‘though I’m happy to be corrected.
      Yes, he did have a book to plug but I doubt that was the real motive behind his appearance on the show. As someone mentioned it is wall to wall Murphy at the moment by design not chance and the intent is clear.

    120. Ken500 says:

      G.A Ponsonby should put a bank account (with name), for donations. People can just pay straight in. Why has no one ever seen. G.A.Ponsonby. There is no surrounding publicity. Are they shy or Is it a nom de plume? It sometimes seemed to be a collection of writers.

      Everyone who can, should donate to a food bank or charity for Christmas. (other times as well).

    121. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      There is a lot of anti-BBC rhetoric on these comments and one thing we can do is to fund G.A. Ponsonby and the forth coming book “How the BBC stole the referendum”.

      I think it is very important that this book is completed as it will give us a method to counter the BBC as this book will catalogue the years of anti-SNP and anti-YES bias.

      Apologies Rev Stu as I have plugged this site previously.
      It is just that I think it is very important and the funding appears to have stalled a bit after a good start.

    122. handclapping says:

      Talking of truth, which as we were discussing the BBC we weren’t, there seem to be just 18 constituencies, if the voting remains 17:27:5:43, where tactical voting could make a difference so the best the Unionists could do is hold us to 25 seats.

      An if, so, best qualified truth but a truth nevertheless

    123. One_Scot says:

      Stating that your support something is not proclaiming you are biased.

      Enjoy a ‘better education’, I guess.

    124. Mealer says:

      Britboy Murphy.Staunch unionist.Pro Trident.Pro poverty.Anti Scottish.

    125. snode1965 says:

      The Sunday Herald was an exceptional read today. Proper journalism at its best. Hopefully The National can progress to this level with proper financial backing.

    126. davidb says:

      Aye, on the Murphy book. I was unaware it was published in June, so that does rather raise the dubiety of the authors appearance. I had a wee look at the 6 reviews on Amazon too. One in particular is odd in that the reviewer has previous only on items with nothing at all to do with football, while 3 ( one a 2 star ) reviewers have no past history at all.

      That new fashioned skepticism has really to extend to everything perhaps.

    127. Ken500 says:

      The Government debt and the National Debt are not the same. The National Debt is the total debt of the whole of the UK. (All mortgages, credit owed, loans on cars, loans on businesses,overdrafts. On a balance sheet the debt is balanced by the assets.The assets can outweigh the debt. i.e. All property, government building, gold, jewellery, land, building, stocks and shares, companies, coal, Oil, Gas reserves, minerals, everything basically in the land.

      The assets could outweigh or reduce the debt. Even though there is borrowing there is collateral. (not £1.5Trillion?). Many landowners/estates are in debt, but the assets outweigh the debts. They live (well) by borrowing against the land, which continues (over time) to increase in value. Productive land (farming) is exempt from inheritance tax.

      There was a report the US assets outweighed the debt. The US has one of the highest National debt in the world.

      The Gov debt, the money the Gov borrows and spends is separate from the National debt. It’s rising as well.

    128. Alex Clark says:

      Oh dear!

      More bad news for Labour. Looks like the anointed one, Mr Murphy has actually lost them support in Scotland.

      “THE Record survey shows that the SNP continue to dominate the voting intentions of ordinary Scots for Holyrood AND Westminster.”

    129. Marcia says:


      I was just about to post that article. I’m not surprised their support has dropped.

    130. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Alex and Marcia,

      Oh no – that must mean the BBC have not been pushing Murphy enough.

      Prepare for even more BBC Murphy in the coming months – wall to wall Murphy.

      Documentaries from the Holyrood broom cupboard, etc,etc,etc.

      I look forward to it – the man is a total liability and can only damage Slab further.

    131. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I suspect an expenses pirate should be describes as a “murphy”. I can think of no better way to destroy the bold Jim than ridicule. He lends himself to it.

      If someone can remember how much Murphy too in expenses for living in rented accommodation in London while he let out his London flat I could describe the UK national debt as so many “murphies”.
      The whole national debt ould be described as a million and a half million million pounds or a million and half million murphies

    132. Alex Clark says:

      Sorry Marcia.

      I know that is normally your domain but I was so excited and couldn’t help myself 🙂

    133. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Jim Murphy must be encouraged to see from the poll that Tory voters have more confidence in him being Labour leader than Labour voters.

      Says it all really – The Classic Red Tory.

    134. OT:

      Scots orphans used in ‘military experiments’

      The allegations centre on at least four institutions where thousands of children are said to have been experimented upon in conditions described as “like something out of Auschwitz”.

    135. boris says:

      Reports from a reliable source reveal tensions already exist between the National Labour Party and the Scottish Branch. It appears the difficulty centres around jurisdiction. Oil policy is not delegated to the Scottish Parliament and as such Spud Murphy had no right to raise the matter with the SNP government, (so he does need to clear his policies with central office) through his deputy, Kezia Dugdale, without seeking and getting the authority of David Miliband who was apparently not yet ready to pursue Cameron and his government at Westminster. Raising the subject in the Scottish parliament requesting the SNP government to set out courses of remedial action which it had no mandate to address only provided ammunition for the SNP to use against the Labour Party indicating their incompetence and letting the Tory Party off the hook.

    136. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks for the link Alex.

      I just wonder how much longer we are going to be seeing the D.R. carrying out these polls. After all EVERY poll they seem to do themselves or have carried out by other polling organisations ALWAYS appear to come back with straightforward evidence that the D.R. sat on the wrong side of the referendum fence. Not only that but they stubbornly refuse to believe ANY of the polling information that they receive.

      Surely a point must be reached, even in D.R. Towers, where someone somewhere switches on a light bulb and realises that they are DOOMED ALL DOOMED! 😛

    137. Ken500 says:

      The more they push him, the more he falls.

      Murphy wants to introduce drink at football matches. That’s the female, the Health care, the justice system the religious, the young vote lost. Practically the whole electorate. Nice one, Jim.

      ‘Oh look a man can run’. He gets a vote. Seriously?

      Football (proportionately) is in decline. Priced itself out of the Market. Bigotry doesn’t pay. Old fashioned. Keepy uppy.

    138. Ken500 says:

      That National is amazing.

    139. SquareHaggis says:

      My 2p’s worth on The National (by a non Nat).

      Despite the strap-line, from what I’ve read thus far I’d say it’s neither pro-Indy nor anti-union but somewhere in between.

      By and large, unbiased. As a newspaper should be.

      It’s the only publication I’ve seen that’s been willing to give many voices an airing.

      It’s a refreshing change and for a fledgling venture all the indicators are there for a pretty useful bridge between post referendum Scots.

      My No voting neighbour took to reading it just to keep an eye on the opposition and ended up advocating for it.

      They must be doing something right. Long may it last.

    140. Alex Clark says:

      Regarding the Survation poll in the Record, one of the most interesting results must be that the Greens are only on 1% in Westminster voting intentions compared with 8% across the UK in other polls.

      That tells me just one thing, Green party supporters in Scotland know the score and will vote SNP in 2015 just as SSP supporters will. It is the sensible option.

      Patrick Harvie, take note.

    141. RJF says:


      Clearly the Daily Record didn’t sit on the wrong side of the referendum fence, seeing as No won.

    142. Alex Clark says:


      So just what did the No side win? In your opinion of course.

    143. Marcia says:


      It could also be because the Greens don’t stand in FPTP seats at Holyrood voters may assume they wont be standing in the Westminster constituency seats.

    144. Lesley-Anne says:


      You seen the latest sales figures for the D.R. DOH! 😛

    145. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Will someone please put a cover over that budgie’s cage?

    146. Smithie says:

      RJF, such words of wisdom my friend.You seriously have me wavering now

    147. Kid Spotlight says:

      steveasaneilean @ 12:11
      ‘To imply that newspapers and broadcasters tell people how to vote and make them vote that way is to essentially say these people are morons.’

      This comment, along with the rest of your well balanced post, makes a welcome change from the persecution complex that seems to grip this blog a lot of the time. You are right to go on to say ‘I think the No outcome was a huge loss of opportunity but until we can consistently convince a significant number of Scots to vote Yes we obviously can’t win.’

      The regular demonising of No voters in this blog serves no purpose but to alienate potential allies in the independence cause. SNP supporters alone cannot deliver an independence vote. The MSM / WSM opposition was entirely predictable, yet the SNP had no effective counter-strategy. Don’t blame your opponent for trying to win, blame yourself for being under prepared. Lessons learned (hopefully), move on, get it right next time, stop moaning about the opposition…

    148. ronnie anderson says:

      At this time of year when its peace love and re-birth,I feel sorry for Spud Murphy and Slab in they’re uphill task.

      I hope Santa brings me ah pair of boxing gloves (naw no fur fighting and naw no fur the other purpose of restraining wantum urges.

      The boxing gloves are to stop me typeing any simpathetic thoughts on Slab Spud Murphy.

      Hurry along the New Year .My new years resolution is to have my mind fumigated to expunge all thoughts of Slab & Murphy, & redouble my efforts to bring that about. Merry Christmas Wingers.

    149. Jim says:

      Clearly the Daily Record didn’t sit on the wrong side of the referendum fence, seeing as No won.
      Clearly, Lesley-Anne believes that Scotland would have been better off as an Independent country, so, the Daily Record did indeed sit on the wrong side of the fence in that respect.

    150. Bob Mack says:

      @ RJF,

    151. Rock says:


      “To imply that newspapers and broadcasters tell people how to vote and make them vote that way is to essentially say these people are morons.
      I don’t buy that. People voted Yes or No for all sorts of reasons and on both sides there were loads of people who would never change their minds no matter what they read or heard from any source.”

      The ones who changed their minds to No in the last couple of weeks are indeed ‘morons’.

      And the reason they are ‘morons’ is because they trust the likes of Pravda GB and the MSM. Apart from that, they are thoroughly decent folk.

      In every vote, it is those on the margins who are mainly targeted and sway the result. So we are not talking about the core vote on either side.

      The referendum was lost for one reason only – the complicity of Pravda GB and the rest of the media in the crime that was commited against the Scottish people.

    152. Taranaich says:

      Scots orphans used in ‘military experiments’

      The allegations centre on at least four institutions where thousands of children are said to have been experimented upon in conditions described as “like something out of Auschwitz”.

      Christ almighty. You think you can’t be any more sickened by the military industrial complex, and they find another way to tear your guts out. There’s your “Military Covenant” right there.

    153. Alex Clark says:

      @Kid Spotlight

      “This comment, along with the rest of your well balanced post, makes a welcome change from the persecution complex that seems to grip this blog a lot of the time.”

      Here Mr Kid, I reckon you are the one feeling persecuted and that has a complex haha.

      You claim that No voters or potential allies are “demonised” on this site. There is an element of truth in that but no way are “potential allies” demonised.

      Potential allies are of course are welcome.

      Only enemies of democracy are demonised. As they aught to be. Are you a friend of democracy?

    154. Lesley-Anne says:

      So RHF, the D.R. was on the winning side huh?

      I guess that must be the left hand side of this picture you are referring to then cause the right hand side is DEFINITELY YES supporters partying in George Square!

    155. JohnG says:

      The 45% will not change their minds as they already know the lies we have been fed by the msm. A good number of NO voters will switch to YES with everything that has happened since the referendum. Also each year on average 60000 people die in Scotland and 75% of them are NO voters. These will be replaced by mainly YES voters. So within a few years there will be a clear majority of YES voters.

    156. Tam Jardine says:


      Great to see the National picked up on the comments of Harry Burns – having listened in disgust this morning at Liddell on Crossfire this morning I was relieved they had someone on that spoke the truth. I was waiting for the mike to be cut off.

      In my cosy existence the horrors suffered under the punitive welfare regime are hard to comprehend. I came back from the Wings gathering in Glasgow after the hydro and it fair puts things in perspective speaking to a guy who was begging having been sanctioned, getting ready for a night sleeping in princes Street Gardens in the bleak November of our capital.

      This is something alien to Baroness Coatdyke and her priority during the programme, castigating Alex Salmond, lying about the No to Yes ratio unchallenged and trotting out the old pish about the SNP ushering in the tories makes me think she is maybe living in a fucking parallel universe.

      We are no there yet but the change in priorities in our society is possible and viable and the way forward, strewn with barriers though it is, can be discerned nonetheless.

      Scotland is undergoing a political awakening not witnessed in my lifetime and it shows no signs of subsiding. Tunisia is choosing it’s first freely elected president – are we going to look back on the forthcoming May GE as our Scottish Spring? I hope we will…

      Every time I see the Commons or the Lords or BBC reporters doing the labour party’s bidding or read a unionist newspaper I think ‘all of this must end’

    157. Jim says:

      Kid Spotlight says:
      21 December, 2014 at 11:25 pm

      steveasaneilean @ 12:11
      ‘To imply that newspapers and broadcasters tell people how to vote and make them vote that way is to essentially say these people are morons.’

      This comment, along with the rest of your well balanced post, makes a welcome change from the persecution complex that seems to grip this blog a lot of the time. You are right to go on to say ‘I think the No outcome was a huge loss of opportunity but until we can consistently convince a significant number of Scots to vote Yes we obviously can’t win.’

      The regular demonising of No voters in this blog serves no purpose but to alienate potential allies in the independence cause. SNP supporters alone cannot deliver an independence vote. The MSM / WSM opposition was entirely predictable, yet the SNP had no effective counter-strategy. Don’t blame your opponent for trying to win, blame yourself for being under prepared. Lessons learned (hopefully), move on, get it right next time, stop moaning about the opposition…
      Unfortunately people do listen to newspaper opinions and that is where the fault lies when that opinion is biased towards one side. A news source needs to weigh up all sides of the argument and present those findings to their readership without fear or favour.
      Believing in a balanced media does not make anyone a moron and it is strange of that person to suggest that is the opinion of the average yes voter.
      No media outlet with a true interest in the well being of the citizens of this country should be so one sided in their output, the shame is theirs not their readership and they will pay a price for their bias through a loss of revenue.
      I don’t see much in the way of regular demonising of no voters either just a sadness that they were taken in by false promises and a bombardment of propaganda by those in danger of losing the ability to feather their nests with Scotland’s wealth.

    158. Rock says:


      “I am not convinced the SNP really have a good understanding of the middle class here. Many people do not like to make their political views known.”

      The selfish middle class which voted No in the SNP ‘heartlands’ and elsewhere will never be won and I would not waste too many resources or time on either them or on the 70% elderly British nationalists who voted No.

      We can only win independence if we can convince the 20% or more working class of the 60% Labour voters that voted No.

      We wouldn’t have achieved 45% without the excellent RIC grassroots campaign to ‘convert’ the ‘lower’ downtrodden class.

    159. ronnie anderson says:


    160. Sinky says:

      On BBC Paper review of FT front page on oil price a disaster for an independent Scotland.

      Can someone not point out to the metropolitan bubble and their unionist cheerleaders that if thee had been a Yes vote, Scotland would not be independent until May 2016 at the earliest.

      Also great play made about small country reliant on oil and this would cause a deficit of £1000 a head (this could only happen if oil price remained at $60 for 12 months).

      Are they totally ignorant of the extent of the UK’s national debt and deficit reduction plans of £59 billion worth of cuts still to come … equivalent to almost £1000 per head of population and this WILL HAPPEN unlike the hypothetical problems of an independent Scotland some 18 months in the future.

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Taranaich –

      Can’t even bear to click on any links about that stuff…don’t want to hear it.

      How much more do people in this country have to take?




    162. Tam Jardine says:

      Kid Spotlight

      Your pious criticism of this site’s participants would be valid if this were some mere political knockabout debate rather than something much more important. I don’t demonise No-voters but there is little point in sugarcoating the hideous repercussions of their intransigence in the face of the hunger, misery, deprivation and desolation reinforced and endorsed by their vote.

      Apart from that there is clearly an absurd missed opportunity for Scotland to become a more prosperous fully functioning democracy.

      There is anger here. You have rightly observed it. If you are looking for somewhere where yes voters lick their wounds and pine about what could have been you are on the wrong site.

      The Yes campaign had a mountain to climb but the indyref highlighted how firm the UK establishment’s grip of our Scotland is. This site has done more than any other media outlet to expose the lies of the UK state and the media that has us pinned down. Long may that continue.

      I don’t think that No-voters are all morons – howevet you cannot with any conviction argue that the population are not hugely influenced by the press and that in falling hook line and sinker for propoganda is something to be congratulated?

    163. Alex Clark says:

      @Ian Brotherhood & Taranaich

      Just as bad or worse is the revelations today about the Westminster pedophile ring in the 80’s.

      Will we ever know the truth or the guilty be prosecuted?

      I doubt it, the establishment need to hide their misdemeanors else be shown up for what they are. Scum and liars.

      Open your eyes!

    164. osakisushi says:

      I’ve fairly strong opinions on the oil price and the foremost is strongly against Govt tax. 80% of the fuel pump price goes to Osborne but the natural price of oil is between 40 and 60 a barrel.
      Above or below is politically generated. Currently we are seeing a return to the natural price and governments are finding themselves exposed due to a stupid reliance that oil would always be more expensive…

    165. Chic McGregor says:

      Duly ordered a copy from Amazon. So glad Iain’s journey on the road to Damascus lead eventually to that eponymous moment.

    166. Paula Rose says:

      Oh look – third class trolls! Season of goodwill, so can’t be bothered.

    167. Bill Steele says:

      When the SNP won a majority in 2011, I was living in S. Korea. But i suddenly felt hope for Scotland and immediately joined the Party. While living in Korea and then in Canada for a year, before returning to Scotland a year ago I faithfully read the Scotsman of line, and posted pro-independence comments to articles. I continued to read the Scotsman for some months into 2014, then I just got so angry I stopped reading it. I’m so glad the National is being published a s a digital edition. I have failed to get work since returning here, and now I’m going back to Canada.

      I very disappointed and sad. I had hoped to spend the rest of my life here, and volunteer with the campaign for the GE in May. Alas it’s not to be! Sidelined! But not completely; I’ll still have the National, Wings, Bella to keep me informed. They are a trustworthy as a medium presented by humans can be.

    168. Alex Clark says:

      We should never forget that Scotlands GDP without oil is 99% of the UK’s.

      Fuck oil, it’s just a bonus. Something Westminster needs.

    169. Training Day says:


      Stuart Cosgrove, independence supporter.

      You read Wings. Were you happy to have your programme hijacked by Murphy yesterday? To the extent that he was fed a BT script by Tam Cowan about his ‘opposition’ to a UK football team?

      Or does your BBC wage mean more to you?

      Do tell.

    170. liz says:

      Please let the Survation poll be true.

      I was a bit worried that since the Record commissioned it, we would be subjected to more doom and gloom.

      It appears that Murphy has sold himself to the Brit establishment but since they haven’t a clue about Scotland it may backfire.

      On twitter Galloway has been making a complete arse of himself, saying he is backing Murphy, almost begging to be included in Labour – quite sad and desperate

    171. kininvie says:


      I think you are wrong about the middle class. Many can be won. I would have agreed with you until our polling showed strong Yes returns among small business people – family joinery firms etc etc. These are people who are used to taking risks and accepting change – it’s the people in traditional employment – tax offices, defence industries – that we lost, because they were made fearful about their jobs.

      I conclude there is a split in the middle class vote between those who see independence as opportunity and those who see it as threat. It’s not as simple as you suggest. One way towards independence is to spend the next few years encouraging the spirit of entrepreneurship. Successful small businesses have no fear of Yes.

    172. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Training Day –

      Hear, hear.

      Stuart Cosgrove made a rod for his own back by allowing Murphy air-time on Off The Ball.

      He could’ve called-off, and let someone else co-present the programme with Tam Cowan.

      As it is, he’ll be expected to appear on the ‘media-review’ spot this Thursday, on John Beattie’s lunchtime gig, along with Eamonn-whatever-his-name-is. The new leader of Scottish Labour appearing on a RS football ‘chat-show’ will be up-there as a potential talking-point.

      Mr Cosgrove has fucked-up. Big time.

    173. K1 says:

      If by ‘won’ you mean ‘fabricated a Vow promising ‘extensive new powers’ equating with ‘federalism’ if we vote No’ then yes it was part of procuring a ‘win’ by those means. It worked as a mouthpiece for the Unionists’ position that was aligned with its own stance and knowingly influenced its readership to vote No.

      The Vow was not ‘delivered’, recommendations have been made, far less ‘extensive’ than that Vow pertained to. There is no guarantee that even these recommendations will be ratified by the next government let alone the HoL’s.

      What it didn’t win as its owm polls repeatedly show since, is a definitive unmoving majority for absolutlely No, since the vote. There is also no increase of the Unionist’s parties vote share since the vote, which would reflect an absolute ‘fixed’ position of a ‘win’ in this regard. (It wasn’t a football match, with a score, fixed and final at the end of 90 minutes).

      The DR has not shifted its stance accordingly. That’s the point. They are not and never were on the side of the people of this country during the campaign, they did not speak truth to power and inform their readership in a clear and balanced way which would allow people to make an informed choice. Quite the oppostite. Therefore they are in fact on the ‘losing’ side as they showed what little regard they had for their readership and where their true loyalities lay and ‘fought’ for their own position.

      As was evident during the campaign the movement was from undecided to Yes. It’s still happening, all we got was a snapshot in time…it showed the direction of travel.

      The DR’s polls back this up, that there is a hunger for Devomax or FFA are not in dispute; it’s a path that leads forward toward Independence not toward the meagre crumbs that have fallen from the table since the vote, masquerading as ‘the settled will of the Scottish people’. And yet they will not reflect this momentum even as their own paid for polls tell them straight.

      Nothing new there, it’s exactly the same stance they adopted throughout the referendum campaign. They do not reflect the views of the majority.

      They merely trade on the tradition of their name; their brand and their backers are in the process of becoming extinct. They are in complete denial about this.


    174. Dr Jim says:

      Tick Tock. Tick Tock. and if writing could make noises Mmm Mm Jaws, i’m off to bedybaws now i’ve had a fun day laughing at the travails of a day in the life of The Murphy’s, so i’ll tune in again tomorrow for the next fun filled episode “Will he save the NHS will he save Scottish Football from terrible sobriety, will Wee Johann stab him in the back, can Deputy Dug stand any closer to him, all these things and more to be answered in the BBCs new Mini Series.. I am Alex Salmond..I thank you and goodnight.

    175. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Anybody else has troubles getting The National today?

      It says I have no subscription but, they have my money for 3 month subscription.

    176. Ken500 says:

      The fall in Oil Prices will not affect the North East. It will hardly affect the North East. It will affect the whole of Britain. Many of the Oil workers (the majority) do not live in the North East. They live all over the world. They live all over Britain, south of the border, London. It will agfect south if the border (proportionately) higher. They live in Europe, Spain etc. They commute to work, travel by air, bus, train or road. The job losses in Aberdeen/shire could be around 1,500. There are more than 1,500 vacancies in the NE of Scotland. There is full employment in tbe North East of Scotland and vacancies. There is a shortage of skilled/workers. It is bursting st the seams, because of tbe forwarding planning of the SNP Scottish Gov,there are jobs in construction (AWPR), tourism, (Trump), fishing (good EU deal by Richard Lockhead representing Scotland), healthcare, Education (Uni Sports village) Renewables etc. If the UTG Project had gone ahead thatvwould have pedestrianise the City and created jobs. The downturn will hardly affect Aberdeen/shire. They are talking rubbish about the ‘Unionist’ downturn crisis. The off spin of lower Oil prices will be positive on the general economy.

      What has affected the Oil Industry, could be rectified and has lost the industry jobs and production. Is the increase in the 2011 Budget by Alexander/Osbourne on Oil tax revenues. 11% (£2Billion) a year, which was absolutely ignorant. The Oil Companies stopped further exploration and the Oil tax revenues went down. Scotland lost £4Billion+ a year because of a act of gross negligence by the UK Treasury. It has come down in the Autumn Statement 2% .

      Some of the reports being bandied about are complete lies. The usual Unionist Press absolute lies. Ian Wood is telling lies and giving a complete false picture of the situation as usual. He is not a politician, it has nothing to do with him. No one can predict Oil reserves or prices, they have always been wrong. Ian Wood is retired, why doesn’t he just count his money.

      Ian Wood made £Billions, the North East and Scotland got nothing. All the revenues were secretly taken from Scotland by Westminster and wasted, creating major poverty in Scotland, by the regime Ian Wood supports. Thatcher secretly took the equivalent of £Billions of Oil revenues and spent it on London S/E and her unsuccessful economic and foreign policies, creating mass unemployment, risky bank deregulation, sold off utilities to foreign companies, high interest rates 15% etc.

      Do not believe the hype. The SNP Scottish Gov is transforming Scotland. The difference is noticeably. Investing in infrastructure, jobs and welfare with the important levers still not being devolved further. Full fiscal/Independence will give the levers to transform Scotland with complete control over taxes and spending. Scotland would be a mire prosperous, equal fair society, the resources are there. The SNP Gov has done wonders and there is Oil on the West. Do niot let Wedtminster get away with misappropriating it. The Oil industry has a massive supply chain and related business and technology the world over. There is much to capitalise on in the future. The ScottishGov is investing well. Scotland would be Ibdependent now, if the full facts had not been kept secret for over forty years. Do not let the feeble fifty deceive Scotland any more. Scotland has the ability and always has done, to take it’s place in the world. It has already given so much. Telephone, TV, telecommunication (Internet), medical science etc. Scottish invention has changed and transformed the world. Scotland was the first country to have free tertiary education.

      The Unionist hypocrites are at it again, issuing misleading information and propaganda.

    177. john king says:

      Child abuse inquiry: MPs and peers named in paedophile dossier handed to Scotland Yard
      The Independent

      Three MPs and three members of the House of Lords have been named in a dossier handed to police concerning investigations into the alleged Westminster paedophile ring.

      The dossier, which has been compiled by Labour MP John Mann, contains a total list of 22 high-profile figures deemed “worthy of investigation,” following the detailed examination of hundreds of pieces of evidence presented to him by members of the public, The Sunday Times reports.

      Mr Mann told the newspaper the dossier names 12 former ministers, several of whom he believes were “definitely child abusers” and at least two of which are alleged to have assaulted boys at the Dolphin Square “abuse parties”.

      He believes that the evidence presented against half of those on the list is “very compelling” and that some could “definitely be prosecuted”.

      The MP said he had investigated claims made against many other names but did not believe the evidence was “sufficiently strong enough” to pass onto police. He revealed he had also been told of allegations that an organised crime ring and one celebrity had been involved in the trafficking of young boys across London to the abuse parties in Dolphin Square.

      The development follows Thursday’s news that the Metropolitan police are investigating allegations that three young boys, who are believed to have been physically and sexually abused at the hands of Westminster MPs in the 1970s and 80s, were murdered by the VIP paedophile ring following the evidence of a “credible” witness.

      Police have made a dramatic appeal for witnesses and victims of abuse to come forward after their witness, known only as Nick, claimed that during his years of abuse at the hands of Conservative politicians, he saw a Conservative MP strangle a boy to death during a sex attack.

      He claims a second boy was killed in a brutal physical attack and that a third was deliberately run down by a car driven by one of the perpetrators, which he took to be a warning not to speak of the abuse to anyone.

      Nick, who claimed to have been abused from the age of seven to 16 at several abuse parties held at Dolphin Square in London, and other properties including military bases, came forward to police after detailing his story to investigative journalism news site Exaro.

      Rex: Dolphin Square in Pimlico, London, one of the locations where the “abuse parties” are alleged to have taken place© Rex Dolphin Square in Pimlico, London, one of the locations where the “abuse parties” are alleged to have taken place
      The Labour MP’s dossier is set to be followed by a second document concerning an alleged cover-up of the investigation into VIP paedophile rings in the 1980s, compiled by former police officers, Exaro has revealed.

      The second dossier is borne out of claims made on a private online forum that that police operations against VIP paedophiles had been shut down just as they had begun to uncover child sex abuse by prominent people.

      It will be delivered to Met police commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe.

      In further developments, The Observer reported that police have now interviewed a former local newspaper executive who claims he was issued with an official warning when he attempted to report on a powerful paedophile ring at Elm Guest House in south west London.

      The claims of Hilton Tims, 81, further fuel the suggestions of a major cover up of evidence of VIP paedophile rings at the time, after his newspaper the Surrey Comet was issued with a D-notice around 1984.

      At the time, Mr Tims was news editor and making attempts to report on a police investigation into Elm Guest House in Barnes, where Liberal Democrat MP Cyril Smith was alleged to have visited alongside former leading Conservative politicians to abuse young boys. The D-notice is an official warning to not publish any intelligence that could affect national security.

      Officials running the D-notice system told The Observer they did not believe the notice would have been issued to the Surrey Comet, but revealed that some records concerning official requests for media blackouts during that time period had been destroyed.


    178. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ John King

      5 Paedophile rings identified.

    179. Ken500 says:

      The majority of the people in the NE and Scotland (even NO voters), adore Alex Salmond and totally respect him. He is mobbed whereever he goes. Hus approval rating is over 50%+, unheard of in the UK. They know how hard Alex and Co have worked for Scotland to improve the Scottish economy in difficult times. The difference to Scotland of good governance is amazing. All over the country things are improving with sound investment and good governance. There is still much to to do but with full fiscal autonomy/Independence and further control, Scotland would thrive.

    180. galamcennalath says:

      The Unionists received the largest vote, I accept that. However, they only swung that at the last minute with sweeping promises for great Devo things. They made a bargain, a verbal contract, some have even claimed. So until they fulfil their side of the bargain they cannot be considered to have won anything!

      Therein lies the current state of affairs – it seems highly unlikely they will ever deliver, so there is no real sense on either side of a Unionist win having occured. No one, on either side again, is behaving as if there was anything decisive on the 18th.

      They slammed a torpedo into the side of Scottish Democracy with their unfulfilled promises. Fortunately, the hole is above the water line and we sail on!

    181. Scotspine says:

      Woman from Aberdeen City council (leader I think) on radio jockland speaking about a pan Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire council working party seeking support from “the governments” re oil downturn. You have to laugh at the bare faced cheek. After banning SNP MSPs from city council buildings, “monstering” Alex Salmond, putting out pro union literature with council tax demands and generally disagreeing with anything the Scottish Govt said now wants their help………priceless.

    182. Jim McIntosh says:

      This blog is getting very weird. Why no comments between 7:12 am and 8:30 am?

    183. Luigi says:

      For an institution supposedly near the centre of the UK oil industry, I am surprised how little Aberdeen City Council seem to know about the current “crisis”. A bunch of Red Tory buffoons talking rubbish as usual.

    184. art1001 says:

      @Jim McIntosh

      I tried earlier. Tried to post about not being able to buy the National at Edinburgh AP and Sainsb when I returned to District 12 yesterday.

    185. heedtracker says:

      “Don’t blame your opponent for trying to win, blame yourself for being under prepared. Lessons learned (hopefully), move on, get it right next time, stop moaning about the opposition”

      What does “blame your opponent” mean? Usual UKOK gibberish and crap English for shut up and go away. Project Fear wot won it, and check the SNP membership and endless vote Labour in Scotland or else BBC, Crash Gordon and a posh Embro expenses fiddler… from zeros to UKOK heros, Proud Scot buts

      Endless middle east war, a million dead at least, the world destabilised, giant debt, slave wages, no social housing, oblivious they said catastrophic Bankster control, super rich elite, corrupt BBC, soup kitchens, Faslane WMD’s, PFI, ID cards, open door unplanned immigration, rise of the ConDem/Nigel Farage, I’m a proud Scot but and we need the safe secure rule of England, and my house might drop in value…

    186. Macart says:



      Yet we’ll be lucky to see a single prosecution.

      Makes you ill just to think about it and the hypocrisy of Westminster and the media is appalling. Still, this is the system that just over half of us voted to support. With privilege comes more than a certain degree of protection. 🙁

    187. heedtracker says:

      More good news for Scotland, Ivan McKee is seeking selection for the Parliamentary candidacy of Glasgow North and East Dunbartonshire, seat of ConDem Jo Swinson.

    188. Sinky says:

      On Daily Record poll:

      Survation found that for 14% of those questioned Mr Murphy’s leadership made them more likely to vote Labour, while 18% said they were less likely to do so and 57% said it made no difference.

    189. Grouse Beater says:

      Though I’ve never been sure of Cosgrove, particularly in his Channel Four Scottish Editor days, (his curriculum vitae reads: opportunistic, adept at the quick study) I can be pretty sure his BBC producer would have foisted Murphy on his programme.

      Cosgrove might well have considered the moment a good one to quiz Murphy on his preference for democractic freedoms, one example being the classical drunk, hooligan, Scottish football supporter that he appears to revere.

      I didn’t hear the interview so have no idea if Cosgrove thought Murphy a political giant and treated him as one, or a fool for subjecting himself to the Cosgrove growl.

    190. No no no...Yes says:

      Heedtracker 9:21am

      Ivan McKee would be an excellent candidate to stand against the irritating Jo Swinson. For me, Ivan was one on the best non-politicians during the referendum.The Libdems would also have to chuck huge campaigning resources to try and save her. They are so thin on the ground already, with so many to defend, tick tock..

    191. Rigmac7 says:

      Hello, my name is Jim Murphy and I’m an eggo…..lia…..wara…..nuka……blaira……holic (delete as applicable for the relevant day of the week/way the wind is blowing)

    192. Ken500 says:

      The only thing wrong with Aberdeen City is the Labour/Unionist administration which is crying ‘Wolf’ now. Labour/Unionists refused a GIFT of £80Million from Ian Wood for the UTG Project which would have pedestrianised the City and provided jobs, supported by the majority of the electorate. It would have bought in £Millions to the City from Visitors/shoppers etc.

      Labour/Unionists politicians in the City voted against the by-pass road for thirty years, causing traffic chaos in the region and wasted £Millions in lost revenues and time and transport costs etc. They haven’t got a clue. Are spending £33Million vandalising the Art Gallery. Paid off AECC debts £26Million, but didn’t pedestrianise the City Centre. Embarked on an unpopular scheme with little support to contract a construction firm to build in the City and lease back from Muse Construction resulting in thirty years of debt. It will cost £Millions more in future (interest) charges etc. Irresponsible fiscal management, along with a Green who was elected to stop the Road. Last time they were in Administration control they nearly bankrupt the City.

    193. Ken500 says:

      Ivan McKee would be brilliant. An excellent candidate. An analytic mind.

    194. Marcia says:

      No no no…Yes

      The revived East Dunbartonshire seat (from 2005) is a curious seat because of massive tactical voting. When it was revived in 2005 when the boundaries of the present seat were set (it was abolished in 1983), there was a massive amount of anti-Labour tactical voting. The SNP vote went down from a notional vote share of nearly 15% to just over 5% all over to the LD so enabled the defeat of the Labour candidate. There was a slight recovery in the SNP and Labour votes but nothing to stop the re-election of the LD incumbent.

      In next year’s election based on present polling I doubt if the LD MP would hold the seat as her vote share is far too low to stop the electoral tide from washing her away, she would need a huge personal vote to see her through. I am minded as to what happened to the SNP MP’s in 1979 who were all washed away despite personal votes in each constituencies. The SNP were polling better in 1979 than what the LD’s are polling today.

      One curious thing about the East Dunbartonshire seat is one of two seats in the UK (the other Ynys Mon) that has been held by 4 parties in its electoral history.

    195. Ken500 says:

      The cause of downturn in the Oil sector that could be rectified was the 11% (£2Billion) a year tax, which killed the golden goose. Imposed on the Oil sector by the Westminster Gov that Labour/Unionists support.

    196. HandandShrimp says:

      The Record poll should be pause for thought for Murphy, or paws for thought for Galloway (well it is the season of the Christmas cracker joke)

    197. Marcia says:



    198. Ken500 says:

      Jenny Laing Labour Unionist. Barney Crockett got demoted when he was away led by Willy Young. They both continually attack Alex Salmond and the Scottish Gov with lies. There was an outcry when they tried to ban the FM from the City. It was seen as an effort to bring the City into disrepute. They are detested by the electorate. No one, including Unionists, has a good word to say about them.

      A pan Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire council working Party would still be predominately Unionist. Although the SNP has the largest group in both Councils. The Unionists combine to keep the SNP out of influence. That is what causes a lot of the trouble. The SNP are progressive and try to bring and support successful ambitious projects to the region. The Unionists do everything they can to halt progress and ambition to spite the SNP. They then try and blame the SNP/Gov for their failings, helped by the bias Unionist Press.

    199. Capella says:

      @ Fred
      Archive version

    200. Marcia says:


      Use the Archive site to make an archive link of the newspaper article so they don’t get more internet traffic than they need to;

    201. ScottieDog says:

      The national is on the shelf at WHSmith at Edinburgh airport just next to gate 6 🙂

    202. boris says:

      working for Foulkes can hardly teach positive moral values and a respect for the law, but that is libel plain and simple and it needs to be retracted. You have made a shoddy assumption and you have absolutely sod all to back up your claims.

      Comment; Kezia acting first and thinking later. This trait will land her in big trouble one day.

      However in response the First Minister launched a withering attack on the Labour MSP and pointed out that there were now double the number of modern apprentices in Scotland than when Labour left office. “I have to say I have watched Kezia Dugdale over the last few days in what I think has been one of the most disreputable campaigns against the modern apprenticeship scheme.” he said.

    203. One_Scot says:

      The good thing is, because of the Referendum it forced the unionist machines hand. And as a result, most of the Scottish public are now aware how the State, the UK government, the Media (TV, radio and print) and Big business now operate and conspire against Scotland.

      Even people who are maybe not so politically aware or internet wise will have heard or spoken to someone who is.

      We now have two choices. We either accept this controlled dictatorship regime, or we grow a pair and change it, starting on May the 7th 2015.

    204. Fred says:

      Anent Archive guys, a dinosaur here I’m afraid.
      I’ve never bought the Express some kind soul passed this on.

    205. biggpolmont says:

      I detest the bias of the unionist cause whether in print or T.V. /radio but until recently what mass coverage alternative do we have ?
      Back” the National” as the other news outlets see the increase in its circulation they will see that their position is useless.

      What we need is a media outlet of our own . the problem with that is that they will claim that it is a propaganda tool. I know that its ridiculous but while the unionist control the state media they are the only ones that can investigate the state media and whether it does operate a bias in its news.
      You can hear the headlines now.
      claims from the separatists that the BBC and other media outlets produced pro union news items were found not to be true.
      The only way to beat them is show them up at every possible opportunity…… Discuss

    206. John H. says:

      heedtracker 9:21 am

      Ivan McKee will definitely get my vote.

    207. MolliBlum says:

      Oh my – what a formidable team we could send to Westminster if these potential candidates are indeed elected, each with their own area of professional expertise: Philippa Whitford, Ivan McKee, Craig Murray, Alex Salmond… every one of them in their own way more than able to cut any Old Etonian millionaire career politician at WM down to size. Reasons to be cheerful in 2015!

    208. Capella says:

      @ Fred
      Right click on the web address you want to post in a comment and choose Copy , or Copy link address.
      Then open up Archive Today (I keep a link on the address bar handy):
      Paste your web address into the red address box and click Submit URL. After a minute or two, it will turn the page into an archive page. You then copy that address and post in your comment.
      Try it!

    209. cyril mitchell says:

      I am beginning to wonder if Robin Cook’s death does have have shades of Dr Kelly’s? We will never really know, at least not this generation

    210. Capella says:

      SophieCo interview with Alex Salmond now up:

    211. fred blogger says:

      thanks for pointing this dreadful abuse out.
      they justify their abuse by scapegoating these children.
      they see them as non-beings.
      it make’s me even more determined to gain indyscot, in fact it is my core reason for needing it.
      we have to stop poverty and child abuse, it can be done.

    212. Big Jock says:

      The thing that baffles me is the easy way a right wing Tory such as Alan Cochrane. Calls his book:”Salmond my part in his downfall”. Readers will remember that Spike Milligan used the name:”Hitler my part in his downfall”. So the inference is that Salmond and the yes campaign were somehow right wing fascists. When any fool knows that Alan Cochrane and the Torygraph are closer to right wing extremism and bigotry than anyone else in this country. Salmond and the SNP are to the left of the labour party. But it seems that if the right wing press don’t like someone they can just say what the hell they like.

      Imagine if Cochrane had been honest and called his book:”Scotland and my part in it’s downfall”. Thats the truth. He is a despicable man and the worst kind of sychphantic Scotsman. Talk Scotland down and play the man every time.

    213. Jack Murphy says:

      Lesley-Anne at 10:44pm 21st December
      Quote:-“Surely a point must be reached, even in D.R. Towers, where someone somewhere switches on a light bulb and realises that they are DOOMED ALL DOOMED! ”
      The penny dropped on the day ‘Scotland’s Champion’ closed it’s doors to ALL comments.
      Readers were continuously pointing out the major errors in their reporting of events and they didn’t like it.
      There was a time when Daily Record Towers could ‘follow orders’, and publish what the boss/owners tells them.
      Getting Off Scot Free—–no more! They’ve been rumbled,and they know it!

    214. Devorgilla says:

      Big Jock: another inference is that Cochrane is a comedian like Spike Milligan.

      Except Spike was a genius anf much loved.

    215. HandandShrimp says:

      Spike was funny, Alan….not so much

    216. Alan McHarg says:

      Can we not rent a slot on “RT”, “RTE” or “Al Jazeera” for “Scottish” news from a Scottish perspective, which will be fed directly into peoples living rooms. Advertised to the world that “Scotland’s only option to tell its people its news is to bypass the Westminster propaganda machine…the BBC”! The statement alone would tell the world that we live in a dictatorship and not a democracy!

      Not getting the real news/facts/truth onto peoples TV’s and into their homes and daily lives was one of the main reasons we lost the referendum.

    217. X_Sticks says:

      cyril mitchell says:

      “I am beginning to wonder if Robin Cook’s death does have have shades of Dr Kelly’s?”

      I’ve been wondering that since he died.

      He will certainly have known where many skeletons were buried. Especially with regard to Blair, the dossier and the lies to parliament over the Iraq WMD.

      Those folk who think that this sort of thing is beneath the british state are deluded. The strange demise of Willie MacRae, anyone?

    218. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Cook’s resignation speech.

    219. Fred says:

      Guys thanks for the advice but the mere mention of cutting & pasting has me reaching for a hauf. 🙂

      Anent Robin Cook, the first story I heard was that he took ill on the hill he was climbing with his partner at the time, but apparently she was never with him at all and stayed in the hotel. The last I heard was that whoever was with him that day has never been named.
      Is that still the situation and how come? I do the occasional hill myself and a lone elderly guy walking in such a remote spot is asking for trouble, ill-advised or easy meat?

    220. Robert Kerr says:

      Link to Robin Cook conspiracy

      That led me indirectly to Gordon Brown’s schooldays and the “E-stream”

      Scary stuff!

    221. Fred says:

      Interesting stuff Robert, no mention of the later story that Gaynor wasn’t even there.
      Through a glass darkly.

    222. Charles Edward says:

      Slightly off topic?

      I am seeking out a proper Scotch malt whisky, one with a strong heritage and independent taste. Not to be confused with Great British Whisky masquerading as the unique blend of Scotland.

      Also I want to get some ‘The Vow’ novelty toilet roll for a No individual?

    223. Rock says:


      “I think you are wrong about the middle class.”

      “I conclude there is a split in the middle class vote between those who see independence as opportunity and those who see it as threat. It’s not as simple as you suggest.”

      I have to disagree with you.

      The middle class is well entrenched and not easy to sway. Why would they want to risk anything when they are doing fine?

      Sorry but they are not risk takers when they have to put their money where their mouths are.

      There is of course a small part of the middle class which is in favour of independence, again they have their minds made up.

      The ones who swayed the vote were the working class who were scared to death by the likes of Asda.

      These are the people whom we need to reassure and to uplift.

      Pampering the selfish middle class is not only wrong in principle in a country with massive poverty and inequality, it is also useless in gaining support for independence.

    224. john young says:

      To subjugate people/country,1st destroy the culture then destroy their language/heritage,has all but succeeded in the “Great British Empire”hence the “British Scots” brought up on a diet of the tremendous deeds of the empire,how many of us were taught about our own history,not many I will venture,they couldn,t ever completely conquer Ireland or it,s people possibly why they show so much hatred towards them especially from our Britscots up here.Irish stand tall and proud,whereas a huge rump of our benighted land bow and scrape to a corrupt and venal establishment.

    225. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      John Young
      For a long time Irish Scots were disinclined to vote SNP because in a hostile central Scotland earlier in the 20th Century their pride in Irish independence, bloodily bought, gave them one over their unfriendly Scottish neighbours.

    226. James Dow says:

      Stuart, the MSM is the propaganda arm of a foreign power, and they are called English.

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