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Wings Over Scotland


Suppressed Memory Lane

Posted on November 27, 2013 by

It’s been quite the week, so to celebrate smashing our all-time one-day pageviews record twice in succession, here’s a wee And Finally… bonus extra.

You’ve probably already seen this on Twitter today, after alert reader “Corstorphine Craig” knocked up an inventive graphic from some old material and sent it to us, whereupon we retweeted it and it went rather viral. But it deserves a front-page spot.

bt1979

Viewers of a certain age will of course recall how well the coal mines, Ravenscraig, Linwood and Bathgate all flourished in the safe hands of the UK when Scotland was swindled out of its Assembly despite voting in favour of it.

But as the parties of the Union and their tame media fall over themselves to rubbish the sensible, achievable vision laid out in the White Paper this week, it never hurts to remember how their scare stories usually end.

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    1. 06 08 14 01:53

      Scotland’s Story | A Wilderness of Peace

    86 to “Suppressed Memory Lane”

    1. Ah remember grown men cry when they brung doon the cooling towers of Ravenscraig. We made the best steel in the world. 

    2. Dcanmore says:

      The history that Labour likes to whitewash and then blame all and sundry on the SNP. Of course Margaret Curran knew nothing about nothing about this at the time. Now how did that Proclaimers song go again … ?

    3. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      Sorry to butt in with 2 things unconnected but, as a Cymro and fellow-Celt, I am concerned what the significance of the following link is:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25127707
       
      and also, what is our 2 nations’ response to this that I saw this evening:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25132026 

    4. theycan'tbeserious says:

      Industry, job’s, families, communities,  economy, local businesses, hope and self respect lost through lies and threats from a 1979 united kingdom government.
       
      No change there then!

    5. Jingly Jangly says:

      O/T and sorry if its a bit early
      What a buffoon the Secretary of State for Portsmouth is, Nicola has just wiped the floor with him.

    6. Annibale says:

      Aye, she left him looking like a burst tyre…..

    7. Famous15 says:

      O/t Alistair Carmichael is a spoilt bairn and he does not stand up for Scotland.

    8. Bunter says:

      Carmichael the bruiser away licking his wounds to his mammy.

    9. Bunter says:

      Carmichael on Scotland tonight ” help Rhona save me save me” lol….

    10. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Lets have a moments silence for Comical Ali Carmichael Moore the former Secretary of State for Scotland & Portsmouth who’s political career died tonight……..
       
       
      Ok ye can start laughin now…….
       
      Jesus!!  That 2nd Half was an absolute massacre !!!….
       
      Christ even Fraser Nelson on Twitter begrudgingly admitted Nicola won…..’The Bruiser’ went down in one !!!! 

    11. Inbhir Anainn says:

      Have to agree in the cross-examination part of the debate Nicola went straight for his jugular vein he had no and indeed gave no credible answers to her onslaught.
       
      Sturgeon 1 – Carmichael 0

    12. creigs17707repeal says:

      Sturgeon dissected him with the skill and precision of a surgeon. Is Carmichael’s job safe??

    13. Alastair wright says:

      Lib Dem on Toast again! Oh well at least it was well and truly cooked thistome.

    14. Morag says:

      Cameron can’t sack him now.  It would be too, too embarrassing after what he did to Moore.  He’s stuck with this.  I’m loving every minute.

    15. faolie says:

      Interesting that Carmichael’s ‘answers’ to what if Scotland votes no were all framed by what would happen if Scotland votes yes! Not a single clue about what would happen if there’s a no vote. In other words, be afraid, be afraid, be very afraid.
       
      Man, did he taken to McNab’s tonight.

    16. Wayne says:

      Poor Ally, Nicola completely owned him in the second half…
       
      Sadly however I think a lot of neutrals and undecided voters simply see two politicians shouting at each other.

    17. Castle Rock says:

      There has to be a Yes mole at the top of the LibDem hierarchy, why would you get rid of Moore and replace him with a big bubbling bairn?
       
      Rhona, Rhona tell her to stoap it…

    18. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I think all discussion aboiut EU membership should be prefaced by a simple statement.
      “The idea that the the EU would want Scotland out of it is absolutely absurd – and Alastair Carmichael/Alistair Darling/Blair McDougall etc etc are well aware of that” 
       

    19. Linda's back says:

      Not content with getting a women to hold an umbrella to shield him from a little drizzle “Bruiser” Carmichael appealed to STV’s Rona Mackay to intervene to protect him from Nicola’s devastating debating skills.  What a disaster?
      They will have to call on cowardly Cameron to save the day. Oh wait he is running faster from a debate than Usain Bolt
       

    20. willie fae Irvine says:

      That was good to watch.
      David Cameron tomorrow, “any volunteers for the vacant post of S0S for Scotland”.
      Anyone??? Hello???

    21. Davy says:

      And that ladies and gentlemen is what you call an erse kicking, and boy did Nicola give calamity Carmichael a real good one.

    22. Gray says:

      I sometimes wonder if Cameron felt that Moore was too competent for his own good.
       
      Having watched some of the earlier Channel 5 with Richard Madeley thing I didn’t join the clamour extolling their arrogance and ignorance of Scottish matters. They believe what their national broadcaster tells them and why shouldn’t they?
       
      The Tories could well cruise to a landslide victory in 2015 if they spin the line that they helped the scurrilous subsidy grabbing Scots out of the Union rather than giving them even more generous devolved powers.
       
      It does seem very short-termism given we know Cameron must appreciate how much Scotland contributes but if he has correctly identified the wnds of change as being inevitable, he may as well make some political ground from it.
       
      Carmichael and Darling are making themselves (and the parties they represent) look like buffoons, and yet Cameron is the one who’ll step in and take the plaudits almost regardless of the outcome.
       
      Obviously ermine jackets are available for the comic duo in the event of a no vote.

    23. Marcia says:

      I’m now sorry I did not see the debate programme. Time she debated Darling next. That will put his gas at a peep and he will blink himself to exhaustion.

    24. It would appear I got my wish, thank you Nicola.

    25. Breastplate says:

      Damn, missed it. Hope someone posts a link tomorrow, pretty please.

    26. Training Day says:

      Alistair ‘Please help me’ Carmichael is the pride of the Union tonight. Alistair ‘are you going to let her bully me like this’ Carmichael is the toast of Better Together.

      Frankly, if we don’t win this we should be ashamed of ourselves.

    27. steviecosmic says:

      It was a masterclass in debate: let the low scoring points go, but go in for the kill when it really matters. Lead your opponent, and when he bites, reel him in.
       
      That was a demolition. It probably wont convert that many DKs, but it will surely leave a lasting impression with them that BT aren’t exactly being honest, nor do they occupy any discernible moral high ground. 
       
      ‘100,000 kids in poverty is acceptable’ was the punch to the kidneys. He couldn’t, and didn’t recover from that.

    28. annie says:

      An Isla man? I wonder if they are proud to own him tonight.

    29. Jamie Arriere says:

      Soundtrack for tonight :
       
      Beach Boys – Help me Rona, Help help me Rona

    30. Marcia says:

      Perhaps BT twitter messages are automatically fed in early in the day;
       
      Blair McDougall       
      Nicola should really be doing better than this in her big week

    31. call me dave says:

      Breastplate
      Try this tomorrow when it will be available:
      Referendum Special.
      http://player.stv.tv/schedule/#

    32. creigs17707repeal says:

      The Secretary of State for Scotland couldn’t tell viewers how many children in Scotland presently lived in poverty nor how many were projected to be living in poverty in 2020.  Shame on you, Carmichael. Utter shame on you.  THAT is precisely why you are dubbed the Secretary of State AGAINST Scotland.
       
      Get yourself another job you utter waste of space.

    33. Edward says:

      And round 2 is tomorrow with BBC Question Time in Falkirk with Nicola on the panel, with Eddi Reader & Patrick Harvie in the Red corner and Curran, Carmichael and Goldie in the Blue corner
       

    34. Nicola was awesome tonight, she sent Carmichael homeward to think again.At one point he looked ready to cry.Want to see the No camp put under pressure more often

    35. steviecosmic says:

      2 nights of ‘edge of seat’ telly?
       
      5 quid a month to view on a VPN in southern Europe is money well spent.

    36. rabb says:

       
      Tîm Criced i Gymru says:
      Sorry to butt in with 2 things unconnected but, as a Cymro and fellow-Celt, I am concerned what the significance of the following link is:
       
      Tim,
      The slogan was:
       
      The terrorist or the dreamer
      The savage or the brave
      Depends on who’s vote your trying to catch
      Or who’s face your trying to save
       
      It’s an Irish Republican song  by Bik McFarlane. I’m not sure what the significance is but I’m assuming their point is highlighting both Wallace & Sands as freedom fighters from English / British rule?
       
      I think we can assume they’ll be voting Yes but personally it’s not what independence is about for me.

    37. Training Day says:

      After slagging Ponsonby and McKay over their ‘draw’ verdict the last time, credit to them for their unsparing and ruthless assessment of Carmichael’s shambolic and craven performance.

      ‘Bruiser’ indeed, you MSM lackeys.

    38. Clarinda says:

      Well I don’t think there will be dancing in the streets of Kirkwall tonight after their MP was easily made soooo… foolish, inarticulate, inadequate and rendered unfit for purpose.
      What an apt title he has – SOS!

    39. Taranaich says:

      Something that’s struck me is how familiar all the “it’s just fantasy/fairytale/not in the Real World” jibes seem, then I remembered: this is exactly how they’ve been describing Alex Salmond’s entire political career.
       
      Anyone remember the posters depicting Eck as a Teletubbie, saying that “He’s living in Scot-La-La-Land”? Before they got taken down for copyright infringement?
       
      http://c0248141.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/YELM_03779_0004018A.JPG
       
      I just recall all the things The Establishment said would “never happen.” They said Scotland wouldn’t vote for a parliament: they did (twice.) They said SNP would never get into government without a coalition: they did. They said SNP would never win a majority government: they did. The SNP have survived despite factionalism, desertions, implosions and all manner of setbacks – survived, thrived, and surpassed all expectations.
       
      Still in “Scot-La-La-Land”? I’m starting to think if anyone’s there, it isn’t Salmond or the SNP.

    40. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Jamie Arriere says:
      28 November, 2013 at 12:34 am

      Soundtrack for tonight :
       
      Beach Boys – Help me Rona, Help help me Rona
       
      Grr….I was gonna do that one….still at least I get to do the link 🙂
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Te_lCF69Aw

    41. Alex Grant says:

      Nicola demonstrated the new strategy Exposé them on consequence of NO and ask them to say no to currency and ask EU for a ruling! They cannot answer. 
      I think Annabel Goldie would be a more worthy opponent but they can’t put up a Tory!
      oh and BTW re Europe we need to raise East Germany – approval process?

    42. steviecosmic says:

      After slagging Ponsonby and McKay over their ‘draw’ verdict the last time, credit to them for their unsparing and ruthless assessment of Carmichael’s shambolic and craven performance.
       
      Yet tonight, they said that she slayed him like last time with Moore? I thought I was hearing things. Then I remembered my 4th year English teacher and his long rants about Winston Smith and The Ministry of Truth. Youth was indeed, wasted on the young.
       

    43. Angry Weegie says:

      Ali never answered a question all night.  He has no command of his brief whatsoever.  He knows nothing.  I think all of those contributing to this site could have made a better go of the debate than he did.  Breaking off halfway through to greet for his mammy was the last straw.

    44. Ananurhing says:

      Poor Chronical Ali. His greatest loss tonight was any hope he had of a seat in the Lords.
       
      Bet he’s awake all night doing a Fawltyesque crouching cringe. Nicola harpooned him.

    45. JRH says:

      If the debate was a boxing match “bruser” might have just shaded the first round mainly because the referee let him talk over and through Nicola and allowed him to get away without answering any questions.
       
      Then came round two, he just didn’t have a chance as was battered round the ring like a punch bag, the shots just kept coming and there was no hiding place. He even appealed to Rhona to throw in the towel but there was no help and he went down like a sack of spuds.
       
      It was not just a KO, Nicola should be done for manslaughter

    46. Bill C says:

      New verse to the Proclaimers “Lochaber no More”, ‘Carmichael no More’!

    47. Davy says:

      Relating to the question about what the Spanish PM said about entry to the EU, the Spanish PM said that if a region opted to leave a member state, then it would “remain outside the European Union”, as reported on the BBC teletext.
       
      What kind of jumps out at you is the simple fact that Scotland is not a ‘region’, Scotland is a country, and at no time have we been considered a region.
       
      Does this not nullify the Spanish PM’s statement?  

    48. mr thms says:

      I am glad Nicola Sturgeon is on our side. She landed blow after blow on Alistair Carmichael and he was reeling by the end of it. it’s great knowing, that despite the constant bias and relentless negativity of the mainstream media on independence, that Nicola will battle to the end to win it. Our modern day Jeanne d’Arc..

    49. The Man in the Jar says:

      I watched both Scotland Tonight and Newsnight. Glutton for punishment or what. Anyhow did anyone else watch Newsnight with Swiney V Lamont with Brewer Bird and Campbell doing some kind of bizarre “Dragons Den” parody.
       
      The reason that we rarely see Lamont on telly was obvious. What a torn faced wee knaf. Honestly what a despicable horrible person, she comes across like some outraged wee wifey in the returns que in Primark. I could not follow the debate for watching her facial contortions and the near constant headshaking in false outrage. What with the video posted earlier and Carmichaels showing on Scotland Tonight. The extreme lack of talent on the no side is becoming more and more obvious by the day.

    50. HandandShrimp says:

      Carmichael is most probably quite a nice bloke away from all this. Lamont  just looks permanently torn faced. That said Darling is little better these days. It must be something they put in the bunker water.

    51. The Man in the Jar says:

      What puzzles me about the Spanish interference is that apart from the Catelonia question the Spanish have got more than most of the countries in Europe to lose with Scotland out of Europe. Considering that half of their very large fishing fleet is in Scottish waters.

    52. Jon D says:

      The phoney war is indeed over and the kid gloves are coming off.
       
      The Yes Campaign have done sterling ground work over the past year enabling Alex and Nicola to present our White Paper with confidence, clarity and meaning.
       
      The team is nearing completion with Patrick Harvie now coming to the fore and I predict Allan Grogan and others being much more visible into the New Year too. 
       
      With Labour Party big hitters also joining Yes ranks, momentum can now only increase as our message of hope and positivity permeates our great country to make it even greater. 
       
      Let the battle commence……YES.

    53. Edward says:

      On the Rajoy topic. Its clear reading the Spanish press that Rajoy was doing his attack on Catalonia, when he was asked a question about Scotland (no doubt from a helpful Brit press pack). From what I understand he stated that as Catalonia as a region , they would have to apply for EU membership. then when asked the question about Scotland seemed to tack that on but was more interested in attacking Britain on the immigration row
      http://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-rajoy-alerta-consecuencias-moneda-mercado-fronteras-aventuras-independentistas-futuro-incierto-20131127201305.html
       en referencia a Cataluña, hay que saber que una “región que obtuviera la independencia de un Estado miembro de la UE quedaría fuera de la Unión”
      Roughly translated with the help of an online translator “in reference to Catalonia, it is important to know that a “region that gaining independence from an EU member State would be out of the Union”

    54. Jon D says:

      It seems Westminster ARE taking the White Paper seriously after all: this from the All-Party Parliamentary Taxation Group
       
      http://tinyurl.com/q6pkk3g
       
      An interesting insight into how WM will deal with a Yes/No vote

    55. Embradon says:

      Blair McDougall       
      Nicola should really be doing better than this in her big week”
      Funny – Blair BT seemed to go quiet on Twitter after that. Careful what you wish for Blair.
       

    56. Craig says:

      At the next Westminster cabinet reshuffle in spring 2004, Tory Baroness Annabel Goldie will be appointed to the post of last British Viceroy of Scotlandshire.

    57. Craig says:

      Sorry, spring 2014.

    58. Danny says:

      cog [dot] edimburgo [at] maec [dot] es
       
      Just in case anyone is interested thats the e mail for the Spanish consul in Edinburgh.

    59. Macart says:

      Unfortunately I do remember.
       
      This cannot happen again.

    60. seoc says:

      Ah, the question might have been phrased:’How much of the Daily Express will remain after……’
      Sometimes what is wished for others visits the wisher in turn.

    61. Bunter says:

      Just watched Swinney v Lamont on newsnightscotland. Would be interesting to put a timer on how much Lamont got to speak uninterrupted compared to Swinney. My estimate is swinney got 5 mins

    62. Wee Ginger dug’s take on the Spanish statement.
      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

    63. Bunter says:

      The more I think about the Swinney v Lamont debate on Newsnightscotland, the more it seems to me that this was a very carefully crafted stage managed event. It’s interesting that the so called weak points on the white paper were explored in detail, Lamont almost never interrupted,but on the questions where Lamont would be weaker like Trident and Royal Mail nationalisation, only short sound bites were allowed.

    64. Breastplate says:

      Call me Dave, thank you, I’ll have a look at that after the school run

    65. Ellie says:

      Very amusing but actually a pointer to a strategy that I don’t think is being pushed enough by the Yes Campaign; let’s remind people of the lies and broken promises that occurred last time Scotland trusted Westminster.
      People in Scotland need to be reminded that every time Westminster makes a promise to Scotland it is a bare faced lie; they need to be reminded of the legacy of that poor decision and the effect it had on their lives.  Then we need to ask he question; what effect will trusting Westminster in 2014 have on the lives of your children?

    66. caz-m says:

      BBC Scotland full of the usual “warnings” garbage this morning.

      This is pay back for the Scottish Government,s positive message that is in the White Paper.

      Keep the public frightened, that’s the negative message BBC Scotland must get out.

      Don’t fall for this bullshit.

      Stay positive.

      We are winning the debate and they know it.

    67. Training Day says:

      @Steviecosmic

      Aye, but the ‘draw’ Ponsonby and McKay called was between Nicola and shameless Sarwar. Even they could not defend Moore’s flaccid performance against Nicola previously.

      Now that ‘Bruiser’ Carmichael has seen his reputation for..eh..for whatever it was he had a reputation for..completely collapse, doesn’t it become more imperative by the day that FM or DFM debate Darling in this format? Can you imagine how long it would take for him to have some form of paroxysm?

    68. alexicon says:

      The big political bruiser, Carmichael, was severely beaten up by a wee woman (sorry Nicola) with a much better political acumen last night.
      The bruiser has got a glass jaw!
      If there was a hospital to treat politicians who have been badly injured in debates, then Carmichael would be in intensive care this morning on life support.
       
      That’s the way to do it Nicola.

    69. scottish_skier says:

      It seems Westminster ARE taking the White Paper seriously after all: this from the All-Party Parliamentary Taxation Group
       
      Yes, very important. Shows why if you support more Devo / Devo Max, you should vote Yes. A solid No vote would basically say ‘Please crap all over me’.

    70. john king says:

      o/t 
      My wife (thoughtfully) recorded DFMq’s from the parliament on the white papers launch on the 26th and I thought Nicola was immense,
      but when Margo MacDonald asked the question that, “will the SNP  remember that, should we win, that negotiations reflect all parties in Scotland and not just the SNP’s position”,
      to which (while Nicola was responding in the positive) the camera went back onto Margo and (with the twinkle in her eyes I so well remember), she pointed to her self (alluding to the group who would do the negotiations) Nicola in the process of naming such people as (god knows why) Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown seamlessly added Margo’s name to the list of appointees, my heart soared, if anyone is entitled to sit in front of the government in Westminster and stare them out its Margo MacDonald,
      I recall in 1974 being bussed to Govan by the local SNP  branch to walk the streets on a cold February day to drum up support for Margo who had just won the seat the previous year  in a by election which caused a tsunami in the Scottish political scene at the time (its Scotland’s oil) and  during the briefing prior to the days canvassing being in the company of a youthful student called Alex Salmond, who in his inimitable and affable style didn’t miss an opportunity to gently take the Michael out of me by pointing out I was/am older than him, when I met him in 2007 prior to his success in winning a minority government in Holyrood (by the way Alex on this one your wrong) Alex Salmond was born on 31st December 1954 I was ahem born on 24/03/1956 (anyone?) 
      however back to Margo,
      I pray that you will be the person to lead the negotiations Margo with all my heart noone deserves it more.

    71. desimond says:

      Well thats the latest battle over with and we move onto  Falkirk( how significant!)… for Question Time tonight.
       
      Lets hope Nicola can sit back, relax and watch a calm Patrick Harvie destroy a rabid Margaret “I have one point to make and will make it on every answer” Curran and the Clumsy Carmichael on his own. I expect Annabel to do her usual Hyacinth Bouquet ( wee Ruth must be raging she isnt getting on the telly!) and pray they dont allow Eddi Reader to ramble on.

    72. call me dave says:

      Jon D
      Thanks for the link.

      Some thought gone into this then.  4 possible scenarios.  Aye the Westminster mandarins are always burning the midnight oil despite what Cameron says.

      Seems ‘tartan skiff’ option 4 is the only one for us.  Pages 84 on for the 4 summaries.

    73. HandandShrimp says:

      BT can’t be too pleased at the outcome of the debate last night. I wonder if they called up Alistair and said “we told you to talk over her at every opportunity and wave false documents and pens at her, what the hell were you doing trying to do? We don’t do arguments because we haven’t got any you numpty.”

    74. Brotyboy says:

      Jon D says
      It seems Westminster ARE taking the White Paper seriously after all: this from the All-Party Parliamentary Taxation Group

      Interesting.  And fairly even-handed from a quick skim of the summary.  Unfortunately its proposals are slightly Calman-esque.

    75. alexicon says:

      @Desimond.
       
      The ammunition is already for QT tonight in Falkirk.
      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/falkirk-claims-councillor-loses-selection-battle.22811104
       
      I do hope its used wisely.
       
      Rev, are we having technical problems today? My last comment is awaiting moderation. I know you don’t do this on here.

    76. Wee_monsieur says:

      And round 2 is tomorrow with BBC Question Time in Falkirk with Nicola on the panel, with Eddi Reader & Patrick Harvie in the Red corner and Curran, Carmichael and Goldie in the Blue corner

      What’s that.. FIVE out of FIVE Scots on the #BBCQT panel? Just wait to see the twittersphere this evening.  What do I pay my licence fee for?, Angry from Maidstone, etc etc

    77. MajorBloodnok says:

      @HandandShrimp (and others)
       
      I liked the bit where Carmichael appealed to Rhona that Nicola was being beastly to him, there was a slight pause, and then she said “Just answer the question.” 🙂

    78. Luigi says:

      Dear Mr Carmichael,
       
      You blew it, tough boy!  No ermine for you.

    79. alexicon says:

      Excuse the “already” in my earlier post. It should have been ‘all ready’ of course.

    80. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “And round 2 is tomorrow with BBC Question Time in Falkirk with Nicola on the panel, with Eddi Reader & Patrick Harvie in the Red corner and Curran, Carmichael and Goldie in the Blue corner”

      Surely we’re the blue corner?

    81. Luigi says:

      Surely we’re the blue corner?
       
      Aye, of course.  Even the tories are turning red with rage!

    82. alexicon says:

      “Surely we’re the blue corner?”
       
      Surely we’re the patriot corner.

    83. Beastie says:

      Ah, I may for once watch Question Time.

      A couple of rather active independence supporters are in the audience. I think they may have lied about their political affiliations to get in there, but no matter. They are the kind to ask deeply, deeply awkward questions very, very politely so if they get chosen expect squirming from the unionist contingent.

      Might be interesting other than that. Ms Goldie is not the same calibre as the other two.

      She’s a Tory with a sharp brain. If anyone can score points against Nicola Sturgeon it’s probably her. It certainly isn’t the other two.

      Almost looks like a balanced panel though. Almost. I wonder why they could manage to fit on three unionist politicians, but only two independence (not nationalist, I think Mr Harvie would object) supporting MSP’s and a Yes supporting musician? I except Eddi Reader is perfectly capable of taking care of herself, but just the same, eh?

    84. Roger Terrett says:

      It’s a military thing; friendlies are always blue, and I guess you can work out the rest.

    85. On Question Time, don’t forget who is the referee!



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