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Still better together

Posted on November 13, 2015 by

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[Theatrical pause before the inevitable.]

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    1. 13 11 15 12:45

      Still better together | Speymouth

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    215 to “Still better together”

    1. skozra says:

      UKOK – yeh right – and to think we could’ve been well out of this shambles. Damn ….

    2. Susan says:

      This makes me extremely sad and even more angry. Please wake up No voters!!!

    3. Mal says:

      As predicted.
      We have sown the wind, and now ………

    4. Luigi says:

      Sadly, this is just the beginning. Wait for bad news about the Type 26 frigate order – something has to be cancelled to pay for the Trident replacement.

      Everything that Project Fear warned us would happen if we voted YES will now come to pass. What MacDougall et al failed to tell us that it was all still going to happen if we voted NO. 🙁

    5. chipmonkey says:

      I think we need the (little) red white and blue book of better together proven nonsense.

    6. Johnnypict says:

      No comment. Except for the no comment one.

    7. Camz says:

      How many warnings does it take for these people to realise?

      How many times can Westminster do this before people learn?

      How many numpties will continue to vote for parties that put London first?

    8. Doug Daniel says:

      Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

      It’s become clearer and clearer by the day that when they were trying to come up with their various scare stories, they said “what bad things do we know are in the pipeline anyway? Let’s just say they’ll happen if it’s a Yes vote.”

      It’s also looking increasingly like Westminster is trying to pull out of Scotland as much as possible, in preparation for the next referendum. Either to minimise the amount of stuff they have to move after a Yes vote, or just to give us less bargaining power.

      The catalogue of “scare stories that came true anyway” is going to be the size of the White Paper by the time #IndyRef2 comes around…

    9. One_Scot says:

      So when ’Better Together’ said ‘Pooling and Sharing’, what they actually meant was pulling from Scotland and sharing in England.

      Ah, now I get it.

    10. mike says:

      The sad thing is we are all gutted for those who are losing their jobs, not like the crazy yoons who celebrated the low oil price and any other misfortune that befell Scotland. At least we will be able to top up the benefits for unemployed so that the new tax workers in England can claw it back to Westminster as income. Better together go fu<@ yourself, that is of course fund.

    11. Darren Docherty says:

      Better together? Definitely, if you live in Croydon

    12. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well what do you know Better Together told us all last September that we all had to vote NO in order to stop the HMRC jobs in S******d being lost.

      Here we are a little over 12 month’s from those horrific blood curdling warnings and how is the HMRC job situation in S******d doing one might ask. Whatever you do do NOT ask Better Together, Labour branch office, Tory branch office or even the branch office of the other lot. Well not if you are prepared to get a load of bulls***e thrown at you and a great deal of SNP BAAAAD!

      Apparently all the jobs losses are purely down to SNP BAAAD! What other reason could there possibly be for HMRC cutting jobs.

      Mind you HMRC do not exactly have a good track record of late do they. I mean untold numbers complaining of not having their phone calls being answered, tax calculations wrong and of course all our lovely Tory lovers getting away without paying any tax!

    13. Fran says:

      We all knew and tried to tell the people.

      Maybe now, just maybe, the penny will drop and the 55 will see how they have been conned.

    14. Brian Powell says:

      Susan

      No voters now seem beyond waking up.

      They remind me of the tragic story of an air crash many years ago, where passengers, although they knew they were going to hit short of the runway, they refused to give up dinner trays, etc and prepare for crash landing, in some desperate psychological lock down that in acting as if nothing was happening all would be well.

    15. heraldnomore says:

      whatever happened to Gregg McClymont?

    16. bunter says:

      Takes a lot to make me fucking swear!! A pattern emerges. HMRC, Renewables, Longannet, steel industry, Tories trying to take 900 Youngs jobs from Fraserburgh to Grimsby and the puntive NSea tax regime. Beginning of an ever increasing list I fear.

    17. Anagach says:

      Croyden, that well know low cost location where cheap skilled staff are legion and commercial and residential property is so cheap.

      Not.

    18. graham H says:

      @chipmonky 11.16 Great idea. The sight of all those headless chickens coming home to roost from the Better Together lie factory is truly frightening.

    19. I’m afraid there are some people who are too thick and will simply continue sticking to voting Labour come hell or high water.

      They will peddle the excuse that many of us have heard before from them.

      That while things maybe bad as part of the UK but they will be even worse if Scotland were to be independent.
      and will continue to blame the SNP and current Scottish government for all the problems.

    20. One_Scot says:

      I suppose the only comfort that ‘No’ voters who realise that they were conned will now have, is they may have a second chance to put things right.

    21. Grant says:

      From the Rob Roy film script.
      What Mr Johnson wanted to say about Strathclyde.
      “You don’t ask a whore. You make her. “

    22. chic says:

      These changes are part of a medium term plan, for 2020-2025. It looks to me like the senior civil servants at HMRC can read the straws in the wind and are fully aware that by then Scotland will be gone, and they will need their capacity to be where their customers are. A yes vote would’ve given them just a couple of years to restructure. This is so that they don’t get caught with their trousers down. Just my £0.02 (plus VAT).

    23. Davy says:

      Perhaps those people posing for those pictures would like to explain to their fellow workers what has happened to their jobs.

      And maybe they should get those “BETTER-TOGETHER” politians to help them explain why being in the “BETTER-TOGETHER” CAMP was good for them.

      You should have voted YES, learn from this, don’t ever trust a tory what ever colour blue, red or yellow.

    24. scotspine says:

      I wonder how the useful idiot holding the UKOK banner is feeling today?

    25. Proud Cybernat says:

      Run for cover – they’ll be bombing our airports next.

    26. ClanDonald says:

      Remember when SLab boasted about having lots of Tory money to spend during the referendum? It was so they could run campaigns like this.

      They did the Tory’s dirty work for them then and they’re still doing it now. The Tories’ little helpers.

    27. yesindyref2 says:

      Apt photo in the last one, Scotland being dumped, recycled and taken down to London. HMRC jobs aren’t the first, and they won’t be the last. Scotland is going south at a rate of knots.

    28. Dr Ew says:

      I really have no idea what you’re all bellyaching about!
      Didn’t Boris say that a pound spent in Croydon was more effective in creating jobs in Strathclyde than, er, a pound spent in, er…

      oh.

    29. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      One very sad aspect of this is that many of those who voted No will probably agree with Boris Jawbags.

      The logic of Better Together is that you have to accept the world view that he represents, and part of that is that the Scots don’t matter, relative to London.

    30. Sinky says:

      Our supine broadcasters and journos who are always taking pro Indy politicians to task over falling oil prices / Scotland’s deficit / Scottish government’s record NEVER ask Labour / Tory / Lib Dem spokespersons about their pre referendum claims or compare our health / education with England under the Tories or Wales under Labour.

      And the BBC / STV / SKY still think they are impartial.

      When someone in audience in last night’s Question Time asked about Labour’s health record in Wales, the Labour woman started to mumble something about devolution being different but stopped before expanding on the point.

      Similarly the guy asking about PFI didn’t get his point answered.

    31. Albaman says:

      Aye, and it looks like “Westminster” has contacted Lord Smith, and asked him to put a positive spin on “Fluffys” insistence that the commissions demands were delivered in full, aye well, that should be spelt fool!.

    32. Jim Mitchell says:

      Don’t worry, those chaps in the pic’s will be back with an apology and the answer any day now!

      It’s wonderful how the daily record gives advice to politicians on this but it doesn’t feel the need to apologise for backing the same campaign

    33. Malcolm says:

      What it comes down to is London is trying to dismantle Scotland’s economy, so the next time there is a referendum they can say look how poor you are look at your deficit, you’d be much better off staying, and to the uninformed that will appear to be true. They need to make us as poor as possible to make us stay, so that’s what they are doing with Longannet etc now this.

    34. Luigi says:

      Doug Daniel @ 11:18 am:

      It’s also looking increasingly like Westminster is trying to pull out of Scotland as much as possible, in preparation for the next referendum. Either to minimise the amount of stuff they have to move after a Yes vote, or just to give us less bargaining power.

      There is definitely a scorched earth policy now afoot. However, this could backfire on WM big time. They should have noted that it was the older, well-off and comfortable scots that generally voted NO. They are attacking and alienating the very people that supported Better Together. If more and more people now consider that there is nothing to lose by voting YES, then we could be going independent sooner than everyone expects.

      The slow end of the union – death by a thousand cuts.

    35. graeme says:

      When Scotland gets independence we become a competitor to England. It is in Westminster’s interest to weaken us.

    36. De Valera says:

      Jim Sillars was absolutely correct when he said that Scotland would live to regret a No vote. Westminster is out to punish Scotland and that means us all, however we voted.

      I remember a line I read before the refrrendum – A Yes vote risks failure, a No vote guarantees failure. How very true that is turning out to be.

    37. Jimbo says:

      This is just the start. They know there’s another referendum coming and they know this time they cannot win it with lies and scaremongering. Every job they can move south, they will.

      Westminster has already stopped investment in Scottish renewables, preferring instead to buy from abroad. If they can manage it they’ll turn Scotland into an economic and industrial wasteland then, after stripping us of everything they can, they’ll tell us we need to remain in the UK keep us solvent.

    38. Macart says:

      Grim news for those folk.

      As for HMG stabbing folk in the back? Well, they do have a bit of a track record in that regard.

      I’m certain those workers will be sure to thank their former employers in the appropriate fashion come indyref2.

    39. galamcennalath says:

      No voters …. smell the shite yet?

      WAKE UP!

      There are many articles on WoS worth sending soft NOs to, for a reality check. This one has to be one of the best. A very straight forward message indeed.

    40. Capella says:

      Asset stripping once again. What a damaging illustration of Labour and Tory mendacity.

      If the Independence vote had been YES these closures would be cited as examples of how damaging a YES vote was. I agree with Doug Daniel, many will have been in the pipeline anyway, along with the drop in the oil price.

    41. Jimbo says:

      Didn’t Blair MacDougall say something along the lines that they wouldn’t do anything to Scotland until after the referendum?

      I wish the NO voters had paid attention.

    42. yesindyref2 says:

      Some statistics, kindly provided by McClymont before he too, lost his job in the General Election:

      “Across the UK, HMRC employs 70,000 people. More than 9,000 of those posts are in Scotland” (22 July 2014).

      http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2014-07-22c.1358.0

      According to the Herald:

      ” Scotland’s 18 HMRC offices will be closed and operations consolidated into two new regional centres in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

      The shake-up will close offices all over Scotland and cut the number of staff from 8000 to between 5700 and 6300.”

      The resulting employment would be roughly pro rata for population share, so though we would currently get our share of employment it seems, we’d get no more. With Independence we’d surely expect to employ roughly the same number to administer our Revenue Service.

      HMRC jobs is no longer a weapon to be used for the NO campaign.

    43. Murray McCallum says:

      When you look at the renewable energy sector you have to consider the agenda of undermining the Scottish economy both short and longer term.

      People who support the concept of UKOK are quite happy for jobs to be transferred to Croydon, Hinkley Point, etc.

      I just don’t understand the mentality of accepting the country where you live and work must always be secondary. Do these people really wish for their kids to emigrate, or do they believe the Scottish government (as most seem to concede the Westminster one does not care) will wave a magic wand?

    44. yesindyref2 says:

      A few of us have said this before, that we really think the Tories want rid of Scotland. And were, perhaps, disappointed with the NO vote. They could have blamed Labour who were the vanguard of BT, for the “break-up” of the Union.

    45. Bill Fraser says:

      No further comment was required from you.The reports you displayed said it all.So much for stupid Labor Party reports of jobs we would lose from U.K.Well we have lost the vast maj
      ority of them and as for Boris The B.What else could you expect from him.Croyden really needs the work!!!

    46. Macart says:

      There’s one thing they can’t shift in a hurry.

      Wonder if they’ve found a new home for their toys yet?

    47. scotspine says:

      Caesar!man and others.

      Please stop referring to Mundell as Fluffy.

      He is a nasty, devious, anti-Scottish, Westminster collaborator and deserves to be referred to in that manner loudly and frequently.

    48. Luigi says:

      Jimbo says:

      13 November, 2015 at 11:41 am

      If they can manage it they’ll turn Scotland into an economic and industrial wasteland then, after stripping us of everything they can, they’ll tell us we need to remain in the UK keep us solvent.

      Yes, but they are forgetting it was the poor people, with nothing to lose, that voted YES en masse last year. Thanks to WM’s scorched earth policy for Scotland, NO voters are being alienated and the numbers of potential YES voters will continue to grow. It would have been better another way, avoiding so much pain and heartache, but IMO this is how independence is now going to come about. WM will keep hammering Scotland until the people decide when they have had enough.

      A hard, painful lesson.

    49. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      What Scotland is facing is the consequences of being trapped in a bust UK economy and this simple fact should be repeated and repeated as the preface to any and every discussion on the difficulties facing every institution including the Scottish Government.

      The UK cannot give us as the UK does not have it to give.

      O/T The increasing silence about Kezia in broadcasting and in the general media indicated that they have already given up on her. This is what Labour in Scotland faces. Who replaces her. Everybody else looks worse.

    50. Breastplate says:

      Merry Christmas from the Nawbags

    51. Angry Weegie says:

      A last wee parting message from Greg McClymont. A reminder of SLab from the good old days when they had only a passing connection with the truth. So unlike now, when they have no connection whatsoever.

    52. mealer says:

      Better Together?

    53. Soda says:

      I actually talked with the wee beardy hipster zoomer standing next to McClymont in the pictures above at the Cumbernauld Town centre Better Together “shop” and he was a nauseating jumped up arrogant little slogan shouter who didnt even live in the area, had no local knowledge and admitted he hadnt even been in the town before that day in his life.

      I feel immensely sorry for the people and their families who were taken in by all this and voted no who are now going to lose their jobs. I can understand them trying to protect their positions and feel absolutely no animosity towards them at all. After all, they are the very people we need on board next time and it saddens me when i see comments on social media by advocates of independence attacking and insulting them for their decision last year.

      It has to stop.

    54. yesindyref2 says:

      Here’s a thought by the way.

      During Indy Ref 1, Labour were claiming “solidarity”, and that if we were Independent, it would stop the UK getting a Labour Government, and we’d be condemning the rUK to a life of Tory rule. Indy supporters were falling all over themselves to prove that in 2,000 years it had only happened once or something like that, that Scotland held the balance of power with its Labour MPs.

      Well, it happened anyway. But how it happened according to Labour, is that in England people were taken in by the Conservative’s “Miliband in Salmond’s pocket” campaign. Well, we have 56 (55) SNP MPs, and now Westminster has EVEL..

      In Indy Ref 2, there is only 1 Labour MP, and the Indy line could be that the best way for the rUK to get a Labour Government is for Scotland to be out of the UK, so that the SNP can’t be used as a campaign weapon by the Tories.

      That’s using the NO campaign’s previous weapon – against the next NO campaign.

    55. Gordon Fleming says:

      The Croydon office must have been in the pipeline afore the referendum. So The civil servants in London kept schtumm when they knew their colleagues in Scotland were being deceived. That’s collusion.

    56. heedtracker says:

      “I’ve heard it said that ‘we’ve got to leave, because they’ll punish us if we don’t’, but my guess is that if we vote to stay, we will be in the heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go. All the major political parties are currently wooing us with offers of extra powers, keen to keep Scotland happy so that it does not hold an independence referendum every ten years and cause uncertainty and turmoil all over again.

      I doubt whether we will ever have been more popular, or in a better position to dictate terms, than if we vote to stay.”

      Any word from the super rich English lady that blew a million quid on Bliar MacDougal’s Bettertogether fraud and gave the world the above pack of UKOK lies ofcourse?

    57. David Wardrope says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      “Run for cover – they’ll be bombing our airports next.”

      Can’t wait to see how the alien attacks will pan out either…

    58. scotspine says:

      Re the media silence surrounding Kezia and the possibility they have given up on her.

      I so hope they choose Baillie…..

    59. Lesley-Anne says:

      Capella says:
      13 November, 2015 at 11:43 am

      Asset stripping once again. What a damaging illustration of Labour and Tory mendacity.

      Unfortunately you are right Capella … asset stripping!

      The only problem is that this is nothing new to S******d. Asset stripping began in recent(ish) years when oor dear Maggie came to the throne. She only managed to get so far with her asset stripping and now her *ahem* son is determined to carry on!

      Remember we had the Highland Clearances in the 18th and 19th centuries well what is happening now is the Highland (all of S******d) Clearances mark II!

    60. galamcennalath says:

      Perhaps it’s time for a WoS leaflet. A table of Better Together threats which have actually come to pass after a NO win!

    61. ArtyHetty says:

      It’s wakey wakey time for many in Scotland who thought a no vote would be business as usual, for them, no matter what happened to the already jobless, sick, disabled and working poor.

      Many no voters will be clamouring for an independence referendum sooner than we think.

      Looks like last year was the prequel, and everyone likes a happy ending. Seeing my no voting friends at the weekend, I have a nagging suspicion they may have had second thoughts.
      Will report back.

    62. Derick fae Yell says:

      BBC Pravda has this on the Scotland Business page. Not a peep about the tosh Better Together spouted. No comment from Scottish Government. Even the dimmest people must start to notice.

    63. Andrew McLean says:

      The two posts from Scottish Labour, reminded me of another bloody stain on the reputation of the Labour party, the Iraq war, this is not off topic because the decisions taken then (albeit today they feel remorse, well some of them do) come from the same mindset as their decisions today.

      Scottish Labour at its core has lost its way, Kezia has stated she is not going to stop SL supporters campaigning for independence in the next referendum, SL and Kezia in particular state they condemn tax credit cuts why won’t she condemn the Labour MPS who sat on their arses or voted for the cuts in Scotland? The two positions are not compatible, and it’s this non compatibility that’s tearing the Scottish Labour party apart.

      Scottish Labour recently cited back to their origins in a party broadcast, I doubt they know their history, read this speech from the dock by the great John McLean.

      http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/songs/texts/macldock.html

      That is what the Scottish Labour party should have done on Iraq, not side with extreme right wing Americans who make the Conservatives seem positively liberal!

      So Kezia, or any thinking labour party member, wake up, smell the coffee YOU caused this problem, be part of the solution, or will you abandon your history in the pursuit of a peerage or a ministerial car from a country that treats Scotland like a piece of shit!

      Scottish Labour compare and contrast

      This is what you were http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maclean_(Scottish_socialist)

      This is what you became http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Reid,_Baron_Reid_of_Cardowan

      Well Kezia and Scottish Labour as Billy asks, time to pick a side! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbddqXib814

      Or are you as was so eloquently put by another poster Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservatives two butt cheeks on the same arse!

    64. Sandrafaeangus says:

      Telt yeh. Tories tell lies. This has been planned for years. Have no doubts. There is more to come. Cutting benefits to the under 25s is next. On the basis of stopping migrants from claiming. Then they use TTIP to sell of the Nhs. What a shower! Labour will never get back into power. Independence is the only way forward for our country. Come on Nicola we’re ready and waiting.

    65. stonefree says:

      @ mike 11:20 am
      Sorry I have no sympathy for any of those who appeared in the pro No postings, the six in the “1273 jobs” can go to hell as far as I’m concerned.
      With the new HMRC to be built in Croydon it contras the losses in Scotland
      Save for the expenses of the “changeover”
      Strange that the Money exist to be spent on this folly,
      What with the Redundancy Payments, and the Build costs , Training costs, At a quick guess £400 to £500 Million,

    66. muttley79 says:

      Just as well the MSM and the state broadcasting circus put all these No campaign claims under rigorous and vigour scrutiny during the referendum campaign then….

    67. manandboy says:

      Lin Homer, HMRC’s chief executive:-

      “[The regional centres] will also make a big contribution to the economy of the region providing high-quality, skilled jobs and supporting the Government’s commitment
      to a national recovery that benefits all parts of the UK.”

      Lin Homer peddling the Osborne/Cameron myth about ‘the recovery’.
      The whole financial world knows there is NO RECOVERY – only an imminent recession.

      On a cheerier note – HMRC employees are civil servants, the vast majority of whom
      are No voters. Why? Job security, (plus a bit of you know what.)

      I’m reminded of the generation of 18-20 year olds who joined up in 1914 to ‘serve their country’ and who lasted only a few seconds before a hail of German machine gun bullets ripped into them as General Haig ordered them out of the trenches; the same General Haig who had earlier rejected the recently invented machine gun as being of limited use in the Cavalry regiments of the British Army. The German Generals took a different view.

      So we have an army of mainly No voting civil servants in HMRC who are being treated by Cameron and Osborne as utterly disposable in the cost cutting war to save the non-existent ‘Recovery’.

    68. The Man in the Jar says:

      My sympathies go to those who are losing their jobs.

      However I am sorry to say it but this is just one of the first of many hard lessons to be learned by the No voters. How many more will it take before they open their eyes?

    69. desimond says:


      “A damning BBC Scotland Investigation reveals the Scottish Government controlled NHS Lanarkshire is not prepared to deal with any increase in demand for anti-depression medication following recent HMRC streamlining in Cumbernauld.”

      You’ll probably hear that on your screens before the weeks out.

    70. Training Day says:

      A scorched earth policy in UK Government reserved areas is undoubtedly being pursued, while the SG are left desperately defending devolved areas.

      Will No voters notice? Open to doubt. I have an uncle who regularly writes letters to newspapers complaining about the malign influence of London and the South East in the UK. When he had the chance to end that influence he voted No. Nothing, no matter how often the absurdity of his position is pointed out, will shift him.

      One imperative also arises from the Rev’s article: Labour must be excised from Scotland completely. There is no way back, ever, for that shower of shite.

    71. Morgatron says:

      It was always on the cards, though this political manouvere makes me sick. They just wouldnt listen . Our so called media stood by and allowed this go happen with the Red Tories branch office just as guilty. They will strip everything out of our country before we finally get free of this union. Darling, Brown , Murphy, Dugdale and that wee turd with the UKOK banner should be in the stocks and public humilated . Liars the lot of them and this is just the begining. The no voting Scots must wake up , i didnt want indy ref 2 until it was clear we would win , but now it cant come quick enough.

    72. heedtracker says:

      Usual UKOK silence from the great man

      https://twitter.com/blairmcdougall?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

      If you voted NO on this dudes say so and about to lose your job, ask him about it all. You could relocate to Croydon, Boris Johnson likes it, houses prices start around half a million and up, same with flats.

      http://www.foxtons.co.uk/properties/uk-london-croydon-937/properties-for-sale-in-croydon.html#

      A “super tax center” is just the thing to rejuvenate a clearly struggling region of teamGB and a tasty toryboy vote boost.

      Thanks again proud Scotbuts

    73. Alba 46 says:

      During the Indyref campaign Slab rushed to the aid of the UK Tories to promote the better together mantle. They wanted a seat at the big table. As the Tories are toxic in Scotland they manipulated and used Slab like an adoring child to do their dirty work for them.

      Slab hadn’t a clue that they were being used. Chickens coming home to roost time. I continue to wonder how long its going to take for Slab to realise they have taken for a bunch of willing muppets by the English parliament.

      Slab for gods sake waken up and look at the big picture. The English government dont give a toss about Scotland. Get a bloody grip and start supporting Scotland instead of being slavishly tied to Westminster.

    74. gordoz says:

      No BBC questioning of how staff feel at HMRC re job losses then / no mention of Better Together irony ?

      Still Better ? Better Still ?

      Sad but predictable.

      If SNP had caused this they would be all over it by now !

    75. Luigi says:

      Training Day says:

      13 November, 2015 at 12:26 pm

      Will No voters notice?

      They will notice when it hits their pockets.
      Absolutely no doubts whatsoever.

      Watch this space. 🙂

    76. Glamaig says:

      The people in those photos knew fine that they were lying. They knew fine that an independent Scotland would need tax offices. So why did they do it? Would they do it again? Would anybody believe them next time?

      Next time there will be no Unionist Scottish politicians or public figures left with any credibility left to argue for the Union. Only the media and the Imperial Broadcasting Corporation are left, and at least 50% of the electorate are clearly not listening to them any more…

      I find myself less interested in history than I once was, and I think its because we are actually making history now, which is much more exciting 😀

    77. manandboy says:

      It has been said that we should feel sorry for the HMRC people and their families who were taken in by the No campaign and who are now going to lose their jobs.

      Rightly so, but while some sympathy is due, it should be remembered that many were only too glad to vote No, and did so triumphantly while abusing the Yes campaign in tones of tribal contempt.

      Does anyone imagine that unemployment is going to turn them all towards Independence. For many it will be No Surrender.

    78. Andrew McLean says:

      Stone free

      So you will have no sympathy for people who are mugged or those who are scammed by confidence tricksters, Just because they fell for the lie, you can’t say go to hell.
      You can’t blame them Better together has some big hitters, look at the ones who got behind that discredited campaign. Now is not the time to laugh at the victims, it’s time to show them who the liars were and hold them to account, time to name and shame.
      But it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some Scots who used tax avoidance schemes like EBT are suddenly faced with a HMRC investigation, squeaky bum time hope they have a source for cheap undergarments, or a job with good attendance allowances!

    79. Dr Jim says:

      And once they’ve finished impoverishing and ripping the Arse out of Scotland you know what they’ll say

      It was all the SNPs fault for making false promises they couldn’t keep, we told you Scotland would be a basket case without us in the Better Together big Croydon Land where everything is lovely all the time

      Steps of Downing st: We had to go in and bail out the Scots, it was the right thing to do

      Viceroy Blimp Mundell and his new team of Government will be undertaking the task of putting Scotland back on the right track after what the Nationalists have done to our once great United Kingdom

      Far Fetched? This is a government who are happy to spend millions to blow up a car with a man in it to prove a point
      what do we think they’re prepared to do to us for our nasty betrayal of the Great Yoonited Shithole

    80. woosie says:

      Lesley-Anne,

      I agree entirely; Clearances 111.

      Anyone with o-level plasticine saw Porky Cameron on Sept.19 talking about evel, but really meaning ” you f***ing idiots deserve what’s coming!”

      Renewables, Longannet, HMRC, etc etc. Lets hope for one positive comes from this barbarism; more yes voters.

    81. DerekM says:

      Aye vote no to save our jobs,well how did that turn out you morons.

      Now i feel bad for all the yes voters who will lose their job but as for the no voters i have no sympathy what so ever,didnt you know this is what you voted no for.

      Every thing they said would happen with independence was actually what would happen if we stayed in the UK.

      VOTE YES NEXT TIME YOU IDIOTS.

    82. handclapping says:

      Dear employee of BBC Scotland, We think you should vote No as BBC Scotland makes programs for broadcasting on our UK network. If we vote Yes that will instantly disappear and jobs will be lost.

      I wonder what else can be moved to Salford to cut costs in the new Charter period?

    83. Nana says:

      The blame can be placed firmly on our malign media. The politicians who lied did so in order to preserve their seats at the trough.

      We managed to rid ourselves of most of the mps, time to focus on the msps who shafted the people for personal gain and the media who gave them the power to do so and will continue to aid and abet in crimes against Scotland.

      I’m not going to get depressed by what is happening, we all knew it would come to this for daring to break free so I will do my best to get the truth out.

      To the no voters, its a simple enough question.

      Who has been lying to you and told you to vote no for job security and happy ever after?

    84. galamcennalath says:

      Andrew McLean says:

      “Now is not the time to laugh at the victims, it’s time to show them who the liars were and hold them to account, time to name and shame.”

      I agree. I have tried never to be too sore on ordinary not-so-politically-savvy No voters. Your word “victims” is applicable.

      Sympathy for victims, combined with education to help them avoid the same fate again.

      Relentless pursuit and harrying of perpetrators, until Indy is achieved!

    85. Lesley-Anne says:

      I agree 100% there Woosie. I am certain that after all the BAD news recently there will be a great many soft NOES who will be giving themselves a good slap about and shouting “why the hell did I ever listen to that bunch of lying two faced hypocrites?”

      If nothing else what I think everyone has learnt, both YES and NO, is that Westminster can NEVER be trusted to tell the TRUTH and that goes for the three branch offices as well!

    86. Fred says:

      Where’s Broon when you need him? He escaped his close confinement in North Queensferry last week for another manic performance on the boards over Tax Credits, King Lear wisnae in it, “Blow wind and crack your cheeks!”

    87. Giving Goose says:

      Re Caesar! 46;

      While I am sure that there will be SLabour (Slaver?) workers at the lower end of the food chain, rest assured that SLaver head honchos, e.g. MPs, ex MPs, MSPs, Councillors galore, were absolutely willing participants in the Tory scheme to eviscerate Scotland. Loyal Tories SLavers to the bitter end, everyone of them.

      What they forget, or choose to ignore, is that an elected representative has a moral responsibility to their constituents not to the London Establishment.

      By the way, the definition of SLaver is: a person who dealt in or owned slaves. Sums up SLabour perfectly.

    88. Angra Mainyu says:

      The Boris video is brilliant. Very useful. Thanks Rev.

    89. Ian H says:

      I have had more than enough now, I would like to start 2016 in Scotland, out of the union and governing ourselves.
      #freein2016 #iScotland2016

    90. Cuilean says:

      I have no sympathy for the HMRC people who are now out of a job & facing a very bleak future. Most of them voted NO to independence as they took the view, ‘I’m alright [Union] Jack’. NO voters did not give a damn about anyone but themselves so hell mend them the selfish sods. NOW they’ll wish they listened to the warnings & voted YES. These people could have helped build the new Scots Revenue Office and a new country and had job security for life. But they threw that all over for their own selfishness. Now we all watch as Scotland is asset stripped & a wasteland created by Westminster to keep us all to heel like whipped curs forever.

    91. galamcennalath says:

      NOs having second thoughts.

      We must remember that by the 5-8th September Yes were in the lead and that put the absolute frighteners up Cameron.

      By the 18th deceitful promises had swung ~4% of voters from yes to no.

      These must be very soft NOs indeed and I suspect most will already be back to Yes.

      I can see nothing which has happened, or on the horizon, which will cause Yes voters to move to No.

      Conversely, everyday something else happens which should make some NOs reconsider their position.

      The battle is to get the messages out bypassing the Corp Media and BBC.

    92. Andrew says:

      Clearly Westminster believe there will be Scottish Independence in the near future. Last year there could only be one sensible vote – a YES vote. A no vote stated that Scots were happy to be ruled by a foreign parliament. In that case expect to be taken advantage of. This can only lead to Scots slowly realising their error. In this time inevitably Westminster will be ahead of the curve and take action to disable a potential competitor whilst stripping as much money out of the colony whilst the opportunity is still there. Whether you prefer to be independent or part of the Union will not matter. The game is up. The only choice available now that Westminster has given up on a union is how long you want to be taken advantage of? The union is no longer an option. Become independent quickly and limit the damage or slowly and endure a lot more pain.

    93. Now's the Hour says:

      Given that Westminster is so busy stripping S******d of stuff, perhaps they might care to strip us of Pathetic Quay?

    94. Kevin meina says:

      Someone made one of the best statements I have ever read on hear yesterday “Labour would rather Scotland be a wasteland than get independence ” that was on par with “labour must die so Scotland can live”.
      We have almost completed our task of destroying labour 2016 and councils 2017 should see that job fulfilled but we need to overcome MSM and our starting point should be total rejection of Scotland Bill and start our final push from that perspective.MSM will go ballistic and we will be decried from every outlet in the land but they can’t make the SNP pass it.
      Our end game is only over the horizon be brave.

    95. Thomas Valentine says:

      It would be interesting to see a list of all the claims made about a YES vote before the referendum, that have actually come true with the NO vote.

    96. Another Union Dividend says:

      Had misfortune of hearing hearing Claire Baker’s convoluted hypothesis of how Labour’s magic money tree will pay for tax credit top ups after Gordon Brewer explained that not cutting APD doesn’t create any more money on BBC Radio Scotland Big Debate at around 12.45

    97. HandandShrimp says:

      Cuts to green energy subsidies

      Cuts to HRMC and other UK Civil Service jobs

      Doubt about the type 26 frigate build

      Closure of our remaining steel industry

      Connection charges closing power stations

      Is there any Project Fear doom scenario we haven’t had visited on us for voting No instead of Yes?

    98. Clootie says:

      …all members of the Carmichael school of politics.

    99. Ken500 says:

      HMRC is not fit for purpose. A total failure. Better to set up a simpler system without tax evasion. It would be cost effective.

      Could anyone explain exactly what the £12Billion (so called Defict) that Scotland pays for in the the rest of the UK, is spent on.

      Westminster has devastated the Oil sector. (Tax take) Now for public service.

      Vote NO you get nothing. People were warned.

    100. stonefree says:

      @Andrew McLean 12:36 pm
      The Two are different, however you had people who were in the employ of a government agency who got up and used that position to mis-represent a future that they had no control over,the others those who were/are scammed by confidence tricksters do get sympathy.
      “Better together has some big hitters, look at the ones who got behind that discredited campaign.”
      they are the confidence tricksters
      “Now is not the time to laugh at the victims”
      I’m far from laughing
      “it’s time to show them who the liars were and hold them to account, time to name and shame.”
      One would hope Carmichael would be the start,but I’m not seeing that long or short term

    101. Lesley-Anne says:

      In memory of UKOK and all their LIES last September!

      I wonder if BBC radio S******d would be kind enough to play this over the airwaves. 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zloU6cWcER8

    102. liz g says:

      A Wee reminder to some of our more intemperate wingers
      Cumbernauld voted yes.
      Despite that disgraceful threat to their livelihood.

    103. DerekM says:

      @ Nana

      You are right Nana these are crimes against Scotland.

      Would it be possible for us to send a delegation to the UN asking for protection against a dictatorial foreign government intent on asset stripping our country,and demand they recognize us as Scotland and not the UK ,and ask them to have an open vote on our independence(so we can see just which countries would deny us our right to be free from tyranny)

      Is this possible and has any other country tried this way ?

    104. galamcennalath says:

      HandandShrimp says:

      “Cuts to green energy subsidies

      Cuts to HRMC and other UK Civil Service jobs

      Doubt about the type 26 frigate build

      Closure of our remaining steel industry

      Connection charges closing power stations”

      … good list, also …

      Tax credits and benefit cuts

      As I said above, perhaps time for a WoS leaflet pointing out the Indy threats which have turned into NO realities.

    105. Donnie McLean says:

      What is Boris on?

      Remember, Osborne has marked his jotter so Boris is back in front.

      What can you add to his comments other than thank you and then widely communicate them!

    106. Stoker says:

      Take a long good look ‘No’ voters, you are responsible for that.

      I wonder if any of those self serving frauds in the “UKOK” pictures above are losing their jobs? I sincerely hope so.

      Betrayed by your masters, the unions and the Slabber branch office.

      Oh well, P45 & bus fare hame, karma’s a bitch, isn’t it!!!

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Ken500 says: “Could anyone explain exactly what the £12Billion (so called Defict) that Scotland pays for in the the rest of the UK, is spent on. “

      That’s a good angle for Indy Ref 2. A list of some expenditure that the UK apparently pays for on our behalf. Figures for:

      Trident
      Afghanistan / Iraq / Syria
      Embassies that charge Scottish business
      HS2 (careful not to include any that has Barnett consequentials – if any)
      Interest on debt
      Whitehall, where employment/offices are less than 8.4% in Scotland
      Energy subsisides perhaps, grid charges
      Parliament where it’s EVEL

      I think the total would come to more than £12 billion.

    108. ClanDonald says:

      Lets make a proper collection of these contradictory before/after headlines. Here’s some to start with, add more if you have them:

      BEFORE:
      BBC News Website, 9/4/14
      Scottish Independence: ‘Yes’ vote could hit energy sector, says UK Government

      AFTER:
      BBC News Website, 18/6/15
      Wind subsidies end ‘could cost £3bn’

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE:
      The Independent, 13/4/14
      An Independent Scotland would ‘lose its HS2’ warns minister

      AFTER:
      The Independent, 24/5/15
      SNP fury as HS2 finds ‘no business case’ for taking fast train service to Scotland

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE:
      The Daily Record, 30/5/14
      B&Q boss warns investment would be put on pause in Scotland if there is a vote for independence.

      AFTER:
      The Daily Record, 31/3/15
      B&Q to axe 3000 jobs and close 60 stores including Dundee

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE
      Daily Record, 29/1/12
      Michelle Mone: I’ll quit Scotland if nation votes for independence

      AFTER
      Daily Record, 22/5/15
      Bra Tycoon Michelle Mone quits Scotland

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE:
      The Telegraph, 13/9/14
      Deutsche Bank warns a vote for independence would be a historic mistake

      AFTER
      The Telegraph, 9/2/15
      Scotland, Flanders and Catalonia are among the European regions that could be better off going it alone, says Deutsche Bank

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE:
      BBC News Website, 8/9/14
      Pound falls on fears of Scottish Independence…the currency fell against the dollar on Monday to $1.611.

      AFTER
      BBC News Website, 10/4/15
      Pound at five-year low against weak dollar on weak output. Sterling fell as low as $1.4618.

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE:
      The Daily Mail, 12/9/14
      Now phone companies warn bills will rise for millions of Scots if country votes to leave the UK

      AFTER
      The Daily Mail, 24/9/15
      Millions of mobile phone users face higher monthly bills after Ofcom TREBLES the fee for using 3G and 4G Networks

      —————————————————-

      BEFORE:
      The Guardian, 20/3/14
      Scottish independence would leave families worse off says Gordon Brown

      AFTER
      The Herald, 12/10/15
      Scots to lose hundreds of pounds as a result of Osborne’s budget

    109. ahundredthidiot says:

      For anyone feeling shocked at this.

      Toughen up.

      Scotland’s punishment is only just beginning.

      And we deserve all we get.

    110. Lesley-Anne says:

      So to sum up we have the TRUTH here.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2GwNaLVgt8

      so who will deliver us from this union evel?

      Will it be this person?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiuSR8hQf18

      or even this nasty group?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD-q5h3b7gc

      Oh and if anyone is wondering about how Labour branch office is doing these days I give you this little clue! 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9v_4htRbd8

    111. ahundredthidiot says:

      Sorry about my previous post…….naturally I feel for those Yes voting staff who will soon be out of a job, of course I do.

      As for the No voters…….fuck ’em

    112. Ken500 says:

      Scotland will earn more in Lamb (foodstuffs) exports to the US, previously banned. £Millions, enough to set up it’s own tax system. Tax credits will not be cut or Syria bombed, because of the SNP, saving £Millions.

      When will information on British sports cheats be released.

      Cameron banned Indian students.

    113. Stoker says:

      Recent Scottish unemployment figures up 11,000 to 166,000.

      Better Together?

      AYE, FECKIN RIGHT!

      Have any of you recently unemployed ‘No’ voters not realised yet that the only people not losing their jobs are the scummy UKOKers who sold you the “Better Together” excrement?

      Think on dear friends and come aboard our ship.

    114. Jimbo says:

      Gordoz wrote: “No BBC questioning of how staff feel at HMRC re job losses then / no mention of Better Together irony ?

      Still Better ? Better Still ?

      Sad but predictable.

      If SNP had caused this they would be all over it by now !”

      Exactly what I said to the Mrs when news of it was first broadcast on BBC. If this had been the doing of the Scottish government the Unionist parties and the MSM in Scotland would have been shrieking it from the rooftops. There would have been wall to wall SNP Bad propaganda being transmitted on BBC TV and radio every 30 minutes.

    115. Dr Jim says:

      Coincidences? All of a sudden we’ve just discovered Russian athletes were doping Tut-Tut but Lord Coe of the Yoons will tell the truth about the bad people and sort it all out
      just when we don’t like Mr Putin’s Warry type methods, coz ours are so much better (we kill men in vans cheap)

      Lord Smith of the Mythical Commission Smith has just popped up to tell us to be grateful all the new powers are just Dandy and good, but how come he was nowhere to be found until now?

      Michelle Mone will get a vote on the technical workings of powers for Scotland, this, a woman who has never made a profit in any company she’s ever had the pleasure to have sold after she slept her way to the top of it with the guy who owned it in the first place (controversial?) Glad I don’t have a Porsche for her to wreck if she doesn’t like me

      Here’s yer tax powers BTW we’ve sacked the staff (he he he)

      What does it take for folk to get a backbone, in front of our eyes the Yoons are laughing their Nob heads off at us but still the Scottish cringe and fear makes them tug the forelock and hope for the best knowing it’s not going to happen but resigning themselves to the fact they can always blame the SNP

      I heard a woman on the Big Stupid Debate with Brewer this AM blame the bedroom tax on the SNP because they were too slow to do anything about it (no confidence) in the SNP she
      said, Eh? I mean Eh?

      Dignitas beckons me

    116. joe macfarlane says:

      Westminster government slowly working through the better together campaign as a bucket list

    117. smithie says:

      Did we not have a cataclysmic event likely to happen?
      Maybe we did?

      http://www.stylewar.com/content/centraal-beheer

    118. Les Wilson says:

      Kevin meina says:
      I agree with your post, I think, as you said, we need to get hold of ALL labour Councils. Most are hopeless anyway, only there for self gain and keeping their pals beside them.

      Glasgow, Aberdeen, many others,are garbage. But to rid Scotland of all these anti Scottish parties with a grip on councils, we need to be getting into it now.

    119. Skip_NC says:

      Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. As a former Inland Revenue employee, I am interested in this major change. I see quite a few of my old friends (and adversaries once I moved to the Other Side) will lose jobs or be redeployed.

      However, the biggest issue I see is this: HMRC has two collections centres (Accounts Offices, one in Cumbernauld and one in Shipley, West Yorkshire. Both are closing. Does this mean that it is no longer necessary to actually pay any tax? Or are they moving that function elsewhere? If so, where? Are they going to split it between the thirteen regional offices (which would be about 44 steps backwards) or are they going to set up one national centre? If it is the latter, where will that be? I would be really curious to know.

      Collections and Accounts Office work is highly specialized. The staff at Shipley and Cumbernauld knew how to work with tax professionals to give taxpayers a fair shake without damaging the Exchequer’s interest. Is all that experience and expertise to be lost?

      When I joined the Inland Revenue in 1988 I spent my first few weeks at a LHA hostel in central London. My boss was extremely keen that I move into the area in which I was going to work as soon as possible. He wanted me to get to know the area, to understand local business. If I was going to be auditing them, it was my job to make it tick. Regional offices will remove that invaluable insight.

      When I moved into the profession, I built relationships with local inspectors, who had, of course, been trained the same way as me and who lived in the community they served (yes, served). Those relationships did not get my clients any special favors. What they did get was an understanding ear from the person representing the taxpayers at large. Amicable agreements were reached that served the best interests of the individual and the taxpayers.

      Now that I work in the USA, I see the problems that having a few dozen regional centres bring. Most staff are seasonal and poorly vetted, which results in several criminal prosecutions each year. Auditors are far away from the taxpayer and most initial audit letters are spat out by a computer. Letters are routinely lost in overflowing mail piles. The computer does not care and spits out two further letters, the second of which gives a firm deadline to file a Tax Court petition. So the taxpayer has to pay a lawyer or a specially-licensed tax professional to prepare a petition for something that can very easily be dealt with by correspondence. Is this what we want for the UK? The past twenty years have seen the UK move stealthily to the US tax administration system (Current Year Basis, followed by Self-Assessment was the start). In my view, no honest, decent UK taxpayer will benefit from this.

    120. joe macfarlane says:

      Wasn’t there a BT threat of an alien invasion or a zombie apocalypse made as well , be interesting to see how they foist that on Scotland

    121. Breastplate says:

      @Clandonald,
      brilliant, more please.

    122. Nana says:

      @DerekM

      I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for any assistance from the UN, They have recently given a seat to Saudi Arabia one of the worst countries for human rights abuses.
      Apparently Cameron was all for it and actively helped them.

      http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150930/1027753802/UK-Saudi-UNHRC-Deal.html

      To be expected from such a man as Cameron who is inflicting pain and suffering on the people of the UK.
      Of course the UN is also looking at abuses in UK.

      http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/uk-is-first-country-to-face-un-inquiry-into-disability-rights-violations/

      Cameron is eager to dismantle the Human rights act. He is welcoming all sorts of dictators to the UK so he’s obviously keen to join the dictator club.

      https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/665084849900814337

    123. The Man in the Jar says:

      We should differentiate between those that believed the lie and those who promoted it.

      Sympathy for the believers and a great big “F**k You” to the promoters.

    124. Clootie says:

      O/T

      Drone attack to kill Emwazi. Who else died when that missile hit the target. How many civilians including children where in the area?

      What is the acceptable ratio of “guilty” to innocent deaths when you launch such an attack? 2/1, 10/1, 100/1.

      Who decides “guilt” – a politician, a newspaper, public opinion?

      They will try and present this as a surgical strike and only mention the target.

      …and at home Cameron tries to bathe in the glory of connection in the hope he can step us closer to bombing Syria, keeping a 2% of GDP defence spend and buying Nukes.

      The last surgical drone strike took out a hospital.

    125. Chitterinlicht says:

      You have to hand it to the Tories.

      By their standards they have played a blinder.

      Used labour as their fag boys in referendum. Now effectively wiped out North and South.

      Hamstrung the SNP with illusion of ‘fulfilling Smith’ with some useless more powers that will be hard to turn down.

      As for lib dems well…..

      Now moving UK gov jobs down south and sacking folk who probably voted no as they were genuinely scared of what would happen with yes vote

      To be honest I am struggling to see a happy ending to this.

      As I said day after ref going to be a lot of pain.

      We have not even had Osbornes autumn statements yet.

      Be very fckn scared.

    126. Ken500 says:

      A Job in Croydon awaits for some unlucky better togethers. While Scottish taxpayers are expected to pay the price. London unemployment 4% with not enough skilled staff. They can squeeze a few more in. Congestion charges. A room in a squat.

      Vote NO you get nothing. People were warned.

    127. StevieMcB says:

      “Job security is far more important to them than the journalism itself. As long as they do what they are told and don’t argue, they’ve got lifetime jobs with great pensions”

      This was regarding South African state broadcasting staff smearing and attacking ANC the legitimate government.

      Jackie Bird,Gordon Brewer, Glenn Campbell, Elenor Bradford, Sally Magnasson, Brian Taylor, Douglas Fraser and other spineless journos at the BBC… tic toc

    128. ClanDonald says:

      @smithie: LOLZ

    129. Craig P says:

      Haud on here. Let’s get the numbers straight.

      1400 HMRC jobs, no 1273 jobs, no 3200 jobs, depend on the union.

      Staying in the union has just fucked 2300, no 2500 HMRC jobs.

      A completely separate issue from the sad fact of union-related job losses, is every journalist left in Scotland dyscalculic?

    130. arthur thomsona says:

      Clan Donald at 11.35

      Labour – the Tories’ little helpers

      That is so true and needs to be spread far and wide.

      Labour are a malicious bulwark between the people and the malice of the Tories. Their presence and influence needs to be eradicated at all levels in Scotland.

      With their henchmen gone the Tories will face the full wrath of the people.

    131. Richardinho says:

      I said before the referendum that Scotland would be punished for voting No and so it has transpired.

    132. nodrog says:

      THE TIME IS COMING FAST!

      With all due respect to the opinions of many contributors on this site there is only one course of action to be pursued and that is INDEPENDENCE.

      We know the answers to Devo Max and FFA from UKOK, – it is not on or you already have it! Pursuing a trial request with HMG will result in the same answer and will be used in the 300 year old strategy called – Divide and Rule.

      What we need to wait for is the call from the Scottish Voters. When the poll reaches 60% we push for it. Where are the polls now on independence?

      This push will not be produced by the SNP. As of February 2016 their activists will be, quite rightly, fully employed in leafleting, canvassing and generally supporting the SNP MSPs get reelected.

      I have checked out the yesregistry suggested on this site but not sure that it has successfully kicked off. But right now we need a new YES Campaign to make sure the Scottish Voters are hearing what is going on in WM and elsewhere. I have detected from recent news and expressed opinions a move in our direction. As any engineer will tell you once you get a large body moving it only takes a little more effort to accelerate it. Can someone who cares enough please pull us together again, through yesregistry if possible. Scotland needs YES the opportunity is here and now.

    133. Stoker says:

      @ ClanDonald (1.42pm)

      Brilliant post to accompany the threads article.
      That’s the sort of stuff we need to be getting out there, through the doors. Simple and speaks for itself with maximum impact.

      No guff, just cold hard facts, job done.

    134. kevin says:

      Very useful ‘Before & After’ compilation by ClanDonald.
      All of these instances seem to be lost or forgotten in the daily grind.
      Maybe The Proclaimers could write another rousing ‘Letter From America’ type song that reminds us of recent, treacherous scorched earth methods by those who will ‘keep us down’?

    135. stonefree says:

      @liz g 1:31 pm
      Might I suggest that those employed by HMRC don’t all stay in Cumbernauld most will commute

    136. Ken500 says:

      Scotland already pays for Trident (Defence) and understaffed (pro rata) in Scotland. Already pays debt repayment £4Billion on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. It can’t pay twice.

      HS2 is Westminster’s folly. ‘White elephant’. They have to pay for it. Travellers pay to use it.

      Embassy charge. An Office and a stamp. Many countries share foreign offices (EU).

    137. Glamaig says:

      United Nations – guess who’s on the Security Council? 😀

    138. Capella says:

      O/T Re Lord Coe and doping allegations: an interesting discussion on R Scotland yesterday on the John Beattie show during the Thursday media review with Stuart Cosgrove and Eammon O’Neill.

      Includes Lord Coe’s attitude to Scotland when questioned about our contribution to the Olympics and what benefit do we get! From 46.28 to 59.55
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06nrsqx

    139. Almannysbunnet says:

      BBC headline. Smith: Scotland Bill ‘honours agreement’
      But if you read the article, further down the page it reports “He (Smith) backed the Scottish government’s reluctance to confirm that it will sign up to the Scotland Bill until the fiscal framework is agreed. “Unless it is a framework that works, I guess people should not be signing up to it,” he said.
      I’m sure the “slightly” misleading headline was not done to mislead anyone.

    140. Andrew McLean says:

      Apologies

      Apologies for my earlier posts, when I mentioned Kezia, by first name only and neglected to explain who this person was,
      Kezia Dugdale was elected by some people in the Labour Party to represent the local office, you may remember her from, well somewhere, I am sure you remember? long hair middle parting sounds like a wean who dropped their ice cream, you must remember her, here is a photo if that helps?
      http://www.thenational.scot/news/who-are-you-kezias-latest-woe-as-46-per-cent-dont-recognise-her.9965

    141. Craig P says:

      chipmonkey says:

      I think we need the (little) red white and blue book of better together proven nonsense.

      Yes, this. A set of illustrations of pre-referendum Project Fear story/promise, followed swiftly by post-referendum fecked-anyway story/fact, should give soft Nos food for thought.

    142. gerry parker says:

      Liz G,

      Glad you brought that up. The Rally at Cumbernauld and the “Convoy” were some of the highlights of the Yes campaign for me.

      You and I know how hard they all worked.

    143. donnywho says:

      the last drone attack took out a hospital… It adds a new dimension to the idea of a “surgical strike”.

    144. nodrog says:

      In addition to my post at 2.13. Did you notice that Project Fear2 is already up and running?

      It commenced when Mundell answered Mhairi Black’s question with the comment that SG will now have to be “responsible and accountable” thus, in my opinion, implying it was not already.

    145. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just a wee reminder of what happened last year when someone tried to tell the TRUTH on the underground. 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttH8BND1BzY

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – totally OT
      Received more spam to another email addy. I have a different email addy for everyone I buy business supplies for, including on-off sales for the cheapest on the ‘net for the paper I buy, whatever and all. So I can identify the source when spam arrives to it.

      What it means is someone in this business, usually small but not always, has clicked on an enclosure in an email and become infected, or visited a duff website. The malware then scours the address book, and does whole loads more, like making the computer a spam server itself. As well, of course, as at times, scouring for bank details etc.

      For me the solution is easy as I have my own webserver, I just delete that email addy from virtuser and restart the mail server. Except that some customers have also been infected, that’s more of a problem and takes longer to change the address as I have to slowly give customers the new one. I can usually identify which customer though, and usually give them a friendly warning – not so with the suppliers, there have been too many and they argue too much that it’s not their fault, it must be me. Sigh. For one thing I use specialist encrypted database email software which has a small customer base, hence untargetted.

      The problem is epidemic, I’d reckon getting on for half of businesses in the UK are infected – if not more.

      Think is of course that even I, very security minded, can’t guarantee that I’m not infected as well. Frightening.

    147. Stoker says:

      I’m not on that twitter twattery thing, i only read the Revs.

      Can someone with the knowhow ask Gregg McClymont for his updated opinion and explanation as to why he deliberately misled people?

      Better still, we know the unions will do their usual run and hide performance but what have the Slabber branch office got to say for themselves or have they eloped with the unions again?

      I don’t live in that area or i would personally drop McClymont an email demanding answers to his deception.

    148. manandboy says:

      Sovereignty -the key to unlock Independence.

      Westminster’s Revenge has another four years to run. Unless it is stopped, or perhaps derailed, this Tory neo-Liberal assault on Scotland seems likely to leave us greatly diminished and suffering badly.

      Our only hope lies in our collective sovereignty, which, at present, seemingly, remains largely obscured in the national consciousness, probably by design.
      It’s rather like being confronted with a locked door but believing that only someone on the inside can unlock it for you, while all the time, the key is in your pocket.
      Too many continue to think that Independence can ONLY BE GIVEN TO US by our English owners. Like a woman who thinks only her abusive husband can give her a divorce, and so she says to him, ‘I want a divorce’, unaware of her true position.

      Cameron reinforces this way of thinking by saying that he will not grant Scotland another referendum for at least a generation. This is a deliberate ploy, repeated by others such as Scotland’s own refuge koala bear, David Mundell, to reinforce the view widely held in the colonies, that England rules. Mundell in particular displays bullying tendencies in this regard, though not on his own account of course.

      Closing the tax offices also helps reinforce the belief that we are powerless and can’t change our situation unless the English come along and do something – like change their mind, as if.

      So it is we the Scots, who need to change our mind; from a hapless, helpless ‘what can I do about it?’ frame of mind, to something much more confident, knowledgeable and assertive.

      Now what have I done with that key?
      Ah! Here it is!

    149. scott says:

      Sorry Rev O/T.
      In the last few days we have heard that Philip Hammond tweeted of his “delight” that Mr Andree was getting released from the Saudi jail and getting home I just wonder if Cameron has had a chat with his Indian friend what is happening with William Irving who to my knowledge is still being held in India even though he is not guilty of anything.
      Anyone got an answer??

    150. liz g says:

      @ Stone free 2.16
      While I admit to not knowing the figures,I have read and heard many times that HMRC is Cumbernaulds largest employer so even if the employed themselves aren’t local (and l think it would be a fair statement that it’s likely most of the staff are likely to reside in yes voting North Lanarkshire) the threat was also aimed at the local economy.
      And as Gerry Parker @2.24 has indicated these are people who are not only on our side but the kind of people you want on our side.

    151. K1 says:

      You could be forgiven for thinking that we actually won the referendum.

      Maybe the reality is we did. We just haven’t realised it…yet.

    152. Jimbo says:

      Re Clandonald @ 1.42 – addition to his list of before and after.

      Before: Scotland should stay and have a voice in running the UK

      After: Tories implement EVEL and make Scotland’s MPs 2nd class.

    153. michael diamond says:

      You would have thought the bears would have been glad to see the back of hmrc, that’ll f***ing teach you to vote ‘naw’.

    154. @ClanDonald

      The same B&Q boss Sir Ian Cheshire is now employed by the pig fancier as Government Lead Non-Executive,previously worked as the lead non-executive of the Department for Work and Pensions.

      http://tinyurl.com/oqjn3zl

      He also worked for Guinness as Ernest Saunders executive assistant,the same Ernest Saunders that was convicted and jailed for false accounting, conspiracy, and theft in the Distillers takeover.

    155. DerekM says:

      @ Nana

      Thanks for the reply Nana 🙂

      Yes i know the UN is just as corrupt as the UK,however the vote would not be by those who sit at the big table but by all nations on the planet,i think they would outnumber the neo liberal crooks and i am sure most of them would only be to happy to stick one on the UK if they had the ammo and the neo liberal infection inside the UN.

      The reason i asked is its no use shouting at westminster we already know the reply ,maybe its time we shouted at the world if we could get a majority of countries to acknowledge our right to self determination ,it could be the big hammer we need.

    156. michael diamond says:

      Manandboy. 2.43pm great post, sums it up absolutely.

    157. michael diamond says:

      The steel and hmrc jobs lost in scotland, to the yes voting amongst you. My heart goes out. To the ‘naws’. Fuck you’s.

    158. Nana says:

      @DerekM

      I absolutely agree that every avenue should be explored. I honestly have no idea how to go about finding out. Perhaps a question to an mp?

      At least it would be a start. I’m sure every aspect has been looked into by Nicola and her team but a wee prod might help.

      However I’m cautious as if memory serves me right not many countries came out in support of Scottish independence.

      Anyone recall which countries did?

    159. manandboy says:

      @ Clandonald

      Terrific – don’t stop – ‘before and after’ really gets the message across. Well done!

    160. Ken500 says:

      UN is financed by US + UK, France and Germany. NATO (2% GDP Defence spend) They get the major say. Not much use when US/UK defy the Resolutions. Defy International Law, they make. Enter into illegal wars costing Trillions and causing a migration crisis in Europe. Another corrupt cabel.

      Johnston is in Israel. Israel has defied UN resolutions and is financed by the US.

    161. scottieDog says:

      @manandboy
      Great post. One thing that really hit me during indyref was that we are a resourceful bunch. It’s time to innovate. This is the kind of thing commonweal are talking about.
      For me we need to start experimenting with complimentary currencies and LETS schemes etc. It’s what the American colonies did when their right to trade was supressed under the iron fist of the king of england.

    162. Kevin Evans says:

      Yea – I know I should have sympathy for this but to be honest I can’t bring myself to have any empathy with this situation.

      History told us this would come if we voted no and a man who forgets the past is destined to repeat it.

      Am sure BBC with mention this in its news but it won’t tell the truth. It’ll be “Scottish government asked what it’s going to do about these job losses”. The stories won’t be completed with “and these lost jobs are being moved to Croydon”. That’s the real story that should be reported.

      This is a trade embargo being implemented by Westminster now.

      On a brighter note at least the people in the tax offices will make a saving as they wont have to pay as much tax on there wages as they don’t have a wage now.

    163. Paula Rose says:

      Could we stop referring to Scotland as a colony of England and start realising that many parts of England and its people are also being treated abysmally.

      The rotten, corrupt entity that has to go is the UK establishment – for the benefit of all of Britain.
      We should make this clear, our friends down south need to hear that more often.

    164. DerekM says:

      @ Nana

      not very many Nana but then it was only the corrupt ones that voiced any opinion on us,there are a lot more countries in the world than just those,some who probably dont even know that we are trying to gain our freedom.

      I agree every avenue should be looked at but i dont think it should be our MP`s or our MSP`s who do this but a team from various organisations ,if only we had some guy who used to be an ambassador to lead a cross organisation delegation 😉

    165. msean says:

      It’s almost as if they wanted a yes vote last year but couldn’t admit it 🙂 they couldn’t believe Scots actually voted no overall. Now they attack the comfortable ones in an effort to make it yes next time,and there will be a next time.

      I’m sure this isn’t the case,the thought just popped into my head when listening to Mr Cameron telling the eu the other day what he wanted,some of which he has no chance of getting,like action on the free movement of worker in the eu (immigrants to tories) and he must know that.

    166. One_Scot says:

      Have to agree with many others that it looks like Westminster now realise that the support for Independence will only keep growing, and that they think stripping Scotland into a basket case will the drain the hope and ambition from the people of Scotland.

      Not really a great environment for future generations

    167. Nana says:

      @DerekM

      Aha I see where you’re going with that suggestion.

    168. Angra Mainyu says:

      ClanDonald, nice post with the before and after thing. Would make a good video.

      We are all of the same opinion when it comes to this stuff. But there’s a media blackout right now, nothing is getting through.

      We need a radio station and TV station.

      Couldn’t Wings evolve into a TV and Radio station? I’m sure funding would be a cinch. And I don’t mean just Internet Radio and TV.

    169. manandboy says:

      Nana says: 2:36 pm

      http://www.orbit-comms.co.uk/planning-application-lodged-for-barite-mine-in-scotland-delivering-vital-resource-for-the-north-sea-oil-and-gas-industry/

      Yet another great link, Nana, you have no peer in finding these very interesting websites. You really are pretty special.

      Duntanlich, north of Aberfeldy, is said to contain enough barite to last for 50 years>/b> and will be a vital resource for the North Sea Oil & Gas industry – and presumably for Scotlands’ other major oilfields west of Shetland and in the Western Margins ( so much oil, it’s embarrassing).
      The Tories of course made that barite a long time ago, so it belongs to the Westminster Establishment, in the same way the slaves from West Africa belonged to them as well.

      Another piece of solid evidence giving the lie to the Unionist narrative that Scotland’s oil is nearly finished.

      Then there’s the two million No voters who couldn’t find water after falling in to Loch Lomond.

    170. paulTgeist says:

      Thank you Rev. Even with the use of very few words you tank the UKOK journos. Well done also to all of you trying to keep this on topic. It has to be discussed and hammered home, lest they forget.

    171. thomaspotter2014 says:

      I even heard Smith on BBC Radio Shitland saying the Smith Commission isn’t delivering Ffs

      On the upside these broken promises will wake up the gullible No voters and anyway Independence is just around the corner.

      I can almost taste it lol.

      So not all bad news on Friday 13th!

    172. MrObycyek says:

      @Clandonald

      I agree with manandboy.

      I really think The National should start printing things such as this every day. Sometimes you need to spell things out to people in the simplest terms. Sadly a lot of people are lazy and ignorant, either not willing or remotely interested in finding out what is really going on, but having something laid out such as what you have done Clandonald would be something even they could read and take in.

      When I think of No voters I cannot help thinking of a quote from one of my favourite books:

      “In a way, the world?view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm, because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird.”

      When you listen to some of the donuts on Call Kaye and in the comments section of certain papers it is hard for me not to think of that quote.

    173. Iain More says:

      Like I said to Mr Naw Naw Bag in the pub yesterday hell mend them!

    174. manandboy says:

      It was Yanis Varoufakis who said that the battlefield in the war against neo-Liberalism is the media.

    175. David McDowell says:

      I’ve been waiting for the right opportunity to say this since September 19, 2014:

      DON’T BLAME ME, I VOTED “YES”!

    176. I know it’s small beer in the grand scheme of things, but at least locally we did our bit.
      McClymont had a majority, if I remember correctly of about 14,000, and when we started our campaign last September, I didn’t think we had a snowballs chance of defeating him. But what soon became apparent was that, if our polling figures were correct, and they held up till May, we were going to win.
      And win we did, by a substantial margin. So at least we got rid of one of the liars, and in response to an earlier inquiry, I believe he now works for Aberdeen Asset Management.

    177. Liz M says:

      The closure of HMRC in Cumbernauld will impact massively on the town centre as a lot of the staff shop there during lunch and after work. Also HMRC PCS voted to back independence in the referendum after a meeting of members even though the union itself came out as neutral. Cumbernauld as has been pointed out was a yes town and in the GE managed to remove the sleekit McClymont.

    178. manandboy says:

      I’m gazing at the front page of The National which features a thoughtful Kezia Dugdale and the headline : Who Am I?
      In a recent poll, 46% didn’t know, 39% of whom were Labour supporters!
      Naturally, Kezia herself knows who she is; she just doesn’t know what she’s doing. She’s like a sixth year on work experience week, showing visiting scientists around the Kennedy Space Centre while referring to her notes and explaining to them the force dynamics of a Saturn V rocket.

    179. Angra Mainyu says:

      Yes, Alex Beveridge, you did good against McClymont. We forget how aggravating it would be to have snouts like that at the trough and on TV night after night.

      Speaking of troughs, I see Aberdeen Asset Management have a keen interest in PFIs, particularly where hospitals are concerned… I think I’ll make them a hobby for a few weeks, they seem to pop up everywhere on the dark side.

    180. Capella says:

      @ Angra Mainyu
      I recall that Aberdeen Asset Management were one of the few financial organisations who did not threaten to leave Scotland if there was a YES vote.

    181. Colken says:

      …..and in the run up to next year elections it will be sold as ‘Jobs lost under SNP government’.

    182. David says:

      As some have mentioned I think that most of what’s happening was already planned. If there’d been a yes vote it would have been used by UK nationalists to push for a second referendum. With a No vote its a case of “tough! what ya going to do about it”. Regardless of how many SNP MPs or MSP there are the power over Scotland remains in the hands of London based politicians that have little interest in what’s in the best interests of anyone apart from themselves.

    183. Nana says:

      @manandboy

      Och manandboy you will be giving me a big head!

      I’m just a nosy cratur is all, and I like to share my findings.

    184. Angra Mainyu says:

      Yes, Capella, you’re right. They were actually quite positive about independence.

    185. Ferryman says:

      graeme says:

      13 November, 2015 at 11:38 am
      When Scotland gets independence we become a competitor to England. It is in Westminster’s interest to weaken us.

      YUP A well practiced policy….. DARIEN!

    186. chris kilby says:

      Bastards.

      (But what did we expect?)

    187. Colin Mccartney says:

      Is it just me, or is anyone else struggling to have any sympathy with these terminally stupid people?
      In the run up to the referendum they were happy to think only of themselves, and their jobs, and hold up their pathetic placards, and pose with Jim and assorted chancers.
      Now they are wanting our support because their imperial masters have jettisoned them.
      Nae luck pal.

    188. Stoker says:

      Where is Svengali Broon, the great messiah, what say he?
      C’moot c’moot wherever ye urr!

      Lord Darling of the robe, whits yer spin oan this, eh?
      C’moan badger boy, tell us yer spin B.

      Raging Ruthie, c’moan, gaunny show us yer UKOK benefits?
      So she sent them all to the bru.

      Wee Willie Stinky? Ach, forget it, yer irrelevant.
      Jist stay oan Carbuncles lap.

    189. chris kilby says:

      Can’t help wondering how many of the clueless numpties in those photos holding “UKOK” and “Better Together” signs are now facing redundancy. Turkeys and Christmas inevitably spring to mind. Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated? I’m not one to say “I told you so,” but…

      Be careful what you vote for next time. If there is a next time.

    190. Marga says:

      Have you seen the Stratfor report of 10 November: “Case for Scottish and Catalan independence builds”. If you don’t know it already, Stratfor is a geo-political intelligence company (see wiki for details).

      https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/case-catalan-and-scottish-secession-builds

      Some statements in the Cases section seem a bit strange, but at least it is a supposedly neutral overview.

    191. orri says:

      Seriously deviousness going on here. They’re dismantling the state in Scotland so that if we did go for independence we would have to start from scratch thus making real the overinflated start up costs given before the referendum.

      They’re balancing that against the propaganda value of, in effect, being taxed from outside Scotland as will become evident when you try to call a tax centre and struggle to be understood by someone on the other end of the line.

    192. Marga says:

      Re. last item – apologies, forgot the OT label.

    193. frogesque says:

      @David McDowel 3.50pm

      l’ve been saying that since 1979!

    194. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re the Barites mining application North of Aberfeldy, is it nearly twenty years since last application was turned down? Then it was refused as you would be able to see a dinky toy sized truck heading to the Milling plant in Aberdeen from the Queens View, and if I remember correctly the average of 20 trucks a day would impact on the road to Aberdeen. (or so they claimed)

      I’ve always thought that real reasons for the refusal were not shared with the public ,only people I can see apart from the Greens to try and stop it would be the huntin n shooting brigade. I worked for the parent company and used to visit the offices in Aberfeldy, I was told by the Mine Manager that by refusing the application the effect on the local economy was equivalent to the Lanarkshire economy of Ravenscraig closing.

      Let’s hope common sense prevails this time and scores of high quality well paid jobs are created in the local community.

    195. Fred says:

      Thanks for the Yanis link Nana.

      Fred

    196. john king says:

      Macart @ 11.48
      “Wonder if they’ve found a new home for their toys yet?”

      I hear there’s plenty of room in Davy Jones’s locker. 😉
      __________________________________________________________
      Training day says
      “One imperative also arises from the Rev’s article: Labour must be excised from Scotland completely. There is no way back, ever, for that shower of shite.”

      One imperative also arises from the Rev’s article: Labour must be EXORCISED from Scotland completely. There is no way back, ever, for that shower of shite.

      fixed that for you. 😉

    197. shug says:

      Clandonald
      That is the best election leaflet info I have seen

    198. woosie says:

      I think it’s time to rush a new referendum. In the wake of all the shit thrown at us since the first one, even the most ardent nos can see what’s happening. This one would be a formality. We don’t need the permission of a pork abuser!

      I think NS should not accept the Scotland Bill, and include a referendum in the manifesto. Take control, and let that lot react!

      I aid before the referendum last year, we had to win, because if we didn’t, we would lose everything. It’s started so quickly and dramatically, fairly soon there will be nothing left.

    199. Ian H says:

      I agree with woosie above, I think it should be a clear declaration on the SNP manifesto that because the English MP’s vetoed Scottish led ammendments to the Scotland Bill. The SNP would if elected as a majority reject the Scotland Bill entirely and bring forth an act of Scottish Parliament to dissolve the union.

      vote SNP constituency & SNP regional

    200. ahundredthidiot says:

      Sensibledave@ oh…no o’clock

      That’s the smartest thing I have ever heard you say

    201. crazycat says:

      Last year, when lots of trade unions were debating their stance for the referendum, the PCS conference voted overwhelmingly to remain neutral.

      The report I read stated that there were zero branches supporting campaigning for No, several wanting to come out for Yes, but a majority wanting to leave it up to individual members.

      The East Kilbride branch, which includes workers at what I still think of as Centre 1 (though I believe it is really called something else now), was one of those supporting Yes.

      That fact, together with Yes support among DWP trade unionists in Glasgow, gave me hope that they would end up campaigning on our side.

      That was not to be, but I think we really should not be assuming they are now getting their just deserts – apart from the handful in the photographs, who might not even be genuine HMRC staff.

    202. Sweep says:

      @manandboy 12:19 pm

      What on earth makes you think civil servants all voted no?

      And why the snark about wanting to save their own jobs? Isn’t it the case all over the UK that people are worried about losing their jobs, regardless of where they work?

      What do you expect people to say? “Yes, of course I’ll risk losing my job and possibly my home. Yes, I’ll risk having to live on benefits under the constant threat of sanctions. Yes, I’ll risk my kids being fed from foodbanks.” Really?

      And so what if some of those people did play it safe? Maybe that leap of faith was just too big for some people with commitments and dependents and household debts. Afraid of being ‘damned if they did’, they’re now damned ‘cos they didn’t.

      And they’re being punished. So now the armchair warriors sneering ‘I told you so’ can comfort themselves with the thought of the bleak future awaiting these people.

      You know, hope over fear is a wonderful, positive message. But sometimes it’s not enough. It’s the “Bread over Fresh Air” argument that still needs to be won.

    203. Kevin Evans says:

      @sweep

      So I see you think Scotland is too poor, too small, too stupid?

    204. As I said yesterday you are at war already but most of you don’t seem to realize it when you do maybe we can start fighting back ?

    205. HandandShrimp says:

      You know, hope over fear is a wonderful, positive message. But sometimes it’s not enough. It’s the “Bread over Fresh Air” argument that still needs to be won.

      Sweep

      I agree. However, it was the No side played on understandable worries and concerns. It those very same people that are making the decisions that have actually delivered these very same worries and concerns to the very people they claimed they were protecting.

      There is no pleasure in the misery caused but it is right to point out the utter duplicity of the No Campaign claims barely a year past when they were made.

    206. Hamish100 says:

      sweep

      the issue is you were wrong. It was too easy for some to believe the lies than believe in the future. I visited one of the sites pre -referendum and was told by a manager that they “civil servants” would be out of a job within 3 months if they voted YES.
      The rest they say is now history

    207. Patrician says:

      I wonder how long this has been in the pipeline, most likely long before the referendum.

      We are now into the final phase of British colonialism, the scorched earth phase. They know is is highly unlikely they will win the next referendum so they are burning the houses and salting the earth now.

    208. Fairliered says:

      I am sure that the voters in the marginal constituency of Croydon Central (conservative majority 165) will be delighted with the additional jobs.

    209. As a true old Scotsman once said to me a long time ago there will Never be enough money in the world for the needy and there will Never be enough money in the world for the greedy. I think that about sums them all up

    210. K.A.Mylchreest says:

      You know this reminds me of the type of scene you often get in crime/war/spy movies where the Evil Nasty Piece of Work, says to the Goody, “give us the information (or whatever) or we’ll do unspeakable things to your Nearest and Dearest”. At which point Our Hero breaks, and you’re supposed to think, “well what else could he have done?”.

      Now the problem I always have with such scenarios is if the Baddie is as Truly Evil as we’re led to believe, what is to stop him, especially now he no longer needs Our Hero’s co-operation, from having His Wicked Way with said Nearest and Dearest after all? Is this not actually the most realistic expectation?

      Seems though that most folk prefer the rather strange fantasy morality of popular drama. Thus the Trusting are Royally Screwed, again and again …

    211. Sweep says:

      Thanks to all who responded.

      How many times have we seen and heard and discussed, here and elsewhere, the dire straits experienced by those out of work? It doesn’t serve anyone right, does it? And what if they voted no out of fear? Is blaming the bullied the solution?

      Here’s another scenario to consider:

      What if they were busy doing their everyday jobs unaware that there was a political publicity stunt going on outside, and unable to prevent it in any case? Does that make them complicit?

      And now that the stunt has backfired hugely and very publicly, are these people to be vilified by association just for being nearby?

      What if every single one of those people at HMRC voted Yes? What if they are Indy supporters? What if they’re regular readers of this blog, maybe even contributors? Being kicked by your opponents is bad enough, but by your own side?

      Folks, please let’s avoid “othering” people because of the job they do, or, come to that, the area they live in, the team they support, or their capacity to overcome fear.

    212. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Decent comment, Sweep.

      It doesn’t sooty our agenda to alienate those who could be on our side.

      8=)



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