Slip slidin’ away
Just two days ago the Electoral Commission gave us a fourth supposed date for the publication of the SNP’s 2019 accounts: having first been due out in early August, they then told us to expect them in early September, and then last week, and then in “the next three weeks”, ie the middle of October.
But someone gave us a tipoff that we might be able to request them via Freedom Of Information, since ostensibly the only holdup was that the EC wanted to wait until ALL of the main parties’ accounts were ready and publish them all at once for tidiness.
So we sent one in, and we just got a very quick reply.
We’ve highlighted the key bits.
“Dear Stuart Campbell
Our Ref: FOI 116-20
Thank you for your email to the Electoral Commission dated 23/09/2020.
The Commission aims to respond to requests for information promptly and has done so within the statutory timeframe of twenty working days.
Your request is below followed by our response.
I request any information the Electoral Commission holds with regards to the Scottish National Party’s accounts (central party) for the year to 31 December 2019. I believe these are public documents and as such do NOT require to be withheld until such times as the Commission is publishing the accounts of other parties.
Our response is as follows:
Each year, registered political parties are required to submit a statement of accounts. Additionally, registered accounting units of central parties, with a total income or expenditure over £25,000 are also required to submit accounts. Parties and accounting units with a total income or expenditure of £250,000 or under must submit within four months of their year-end. Those with a total income or expenditure of over £250,000 must submit within six months and seven days of their year-end. As the majority of parties, including the SNP, have a year end of 31 December, the deadlines for the 2019 accounts were 30 April 2020 and 07 July 2020.
The Commission is required to publish this information as soon as is reasonably practicable. The restrictions imposed in response to COVID-19 caused many parties to miss the deadline meaning that the publication of the 2019 accounts has been delayed.
Though we hold the information you have requested, we are unable to release it at this time.
Section 22 of the Freedom of Information Act provides an exemption for information that is intended to be published in the future. Information is exempt if, at the time when the public authority receives a request for it:
· the public authority holds the requested information;
· the public authority intends the information to be published at some future date, whether that date is determined or not;
· and in all the circumstances it is reasonable to withhold the information until its planned publication.
The Commission holds the requested information and we intend to publish it shortly along the annual accounts of other registered parties in the over £250,000 category. We have not yet set a date for this publication though we intend to publish here on our website early November. You will notice that the accounts of all parties with an income or expenditure of £250,000 or under and their relevant accounting units have already been published.
Section 22 is a qualified exemption and therefore requires us to consider if the public interest outweighs the use of the exemption.
We understand the importance of being transparent and open with the general public and note that the information requested is of public interest. However, releasing this information early may cause further delays to the publication process of all accounts that we hold. This would impact our ability to ensure the transparency of accounts submitted by all other parties in the over £250,000 category.
I trust that this information satisfies your request. The Commission strives to be an open, transparent authority, but in some circumstances we cannot responsibly release requested information, and we ask for your understanding in this regard.
If you are not satisfied with this response, please note that the Commission operates a review procedure, details of which can be found on the Commission website.
Please also note that if you have exhausted all internal Commission review procedures and you are still not satisfied you have the right to appeal to the Information Commissioner. Details of this procedure can be found on the ICO website.
Yours sincerely,
Information Team
The Electoral Commission
electoralcommission.org.uk”
So we’ve now gone from August to September to October to November – and even November isn’t a set date, just an aspiration.
The bottom line is the Commission admits that it’s holding the accounts – which have been the subject of considerable speculation that they might reveal a serious fraud and as such are clearly in the public interest – but is refusing to release them. At this rate it looks like it could be 2021 before we get to see the accounts for 2019 and find out what happened to all those hundreds of thousands of pounds the SNP raised for an independence referendum it looks increasingly disinclined to even try to achieve.
Again good journalistic exposure Stu. After Independence we should set up our own equivalent to the UC but with different powers, they seem altogether insufficient to me. Also their website is a mess. I went to it to see if any of the other blowhard parties were actually registered yet.
I had to give up and google it in order to find the page. It revealed what I expected, the ISP is the only new Yes party there is. There are so many people confused by the publicity for the blowhards like the Alliance for Independence who now it turns out got turned down by the EC and won’t be trying again.
I do hope Georgeous George’s Unionist mob gets going though and splits the Unionist vote allowing the ISP to come through the middle. That would be just perfect.
The day of release has been put back more times than ABBA’s new recordings.
Dodged another bullet.
That’s a whole lot of bullets being dodged, for the time being.
Great try, this time.
Be interesting to see – once things are out in the open – if the Scottish msm offer credit to the only journalist actively pursuing these very serious matters? Just think; you’re giving them oodles of quite incredible information and headlines, they’re salivating but strangely silent?
Trying to stay on topic, however, couldn’t resist Muscleguy’s reference to Galloway. I reckon Galloway will be wall-to-wall BBC next year, that genuine Scottish socialist – he’ll be their man.
Maybe by next May we’ll all get to see the accounts?
Hold on – Their entire reason seems to be publishing SNP accounts early mean we would be late with the other accounts. How does that even work? This is not reasonable in ‘all circumstances’
@Kenny
Even if George’s lot do well and top the poll. The first seat will cut that by half. The votes they take from the Unionist 3 might leave the FibDems lower than 5% so they drop out. Meaning ISP get the next one and repeat. No other unionists than George’s lot will be a real hoot.
We should get that photo of him and young Nicola campaigning for Indy together really out there. Maybe on billboards.
“the Alliance for Independence who now it turns out got turned down by the EC and won’t be trying again“
Wait, is that official?
Can you imagine Companies House saying “We’re waiting until we’ve got all the accounts from the FT 30-Share index companies before publishing any of them.”
Their explanation makes no sense at all. How can “publishing” one set of accounts cause a delay in “publishing” the others?
This stinks. Who are the electoral commission protecting ? And more importantly why are they protecting someone ?
O/t Do you think grubby galloway has been promised a dukedom or just a whole lot of dosh. I assume a seat in the house of lords is a given as its the champagne pseudo-socialist way.
P.S. Is anyone challenging Rhiannon (I’m happy with devolution) Speirs in Argyll for the SNP nomination ? If not why not ?
They’ll peg out until after the 21 elections.
Just one question.
Have the LibDems, Labour or Tories have had their funding published? Or Is that a UK wide matter , since the ones in Scotland, a just branch offices of parties mostly likely registered in London?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
25 September, 2020 at 2:22 pm
“the Alliance for Independence who now it turns out got turned down by the EC and won’t be trying again“
Wait, is that official?
I would like to know the answer to that as well, Has the Alliance Party been refused, & if so WHY? Although I am an ISP member these days, I just wish they would stand candidates in all the seats the workers are after..We need a really STRONG Indy movement within HR.. SNP are just not that anymore..
[…] Wings Over Scotland Slip slidin’ away Just two days ago the Electoral Commission gave us a fourth supposed date for the […]
They’ll string it out until the US Presidential elections; until Trump & co can create carnage and militarise. During which time, so too the Tories will militarise Brexit in UK – my hunch is via HunterstonB &/or COVID-19 ‘incompetence’, for which Johnson (or Gove) will request financial & military ‘assistance’ from Trump.
The #TrumpPutin Presidency & Brexit are the same failing #ToryAnalytica ‘Atlantic Bridge’ #BrexitCoup d’etat. #TickTockTroops
If MI5 were to turn WOS it would look like it does now.
FOI request to find who’s holding out? 😀
Astonished, according to link to twitter.com there are three potential candidates for the SNP in Argyll & Bute.
Stu Campbell
Ask for the review then, so you complete the internal complaint process and get a final reply.
(Of course you know this and will do this, but it’s useful info anyway).
Skip-NC @3.06PM
And surprise, surprise Rhiannon Spears is listed for Argyll & Bute. I really hope the good peeps of A&B ensure she gets no where near a nomination.
Bryan @3:04 pm
MI5 would surely prefer that the Manchurian candidate be left alone to do her work.
Rev, you’re playing a blinder these days.
Did Progress Scotland submit accounts?
Skip_NC – Thanks for this .
ABR : Anyone but rhiannon.
Holyrood will be out of operating money by the time these Accounts are Published so the joint won’t be in business , no MSPs and direct rule by the Tory Government Hub right in the centre of the Jocks Capital city and the SNP fiddles while everything is put in place , it’s not as if it’s being done in secret it’s even Jack Branded so we don’t miss it , get it up you Jocks what are you going to do about it ? . look south for our own money because The English Tory Government is going to make sure you Jocks don’t have any ideas , Like Independence .
And all this was happening in full view of the MSPs going to their work, a total shock eh it was a big surprise eh out of the Blue , aye the mugs were counting on our political leaders to anticipate how bloody devious the Tory Government could and would be , Shocked I really am , FFS brainless.
I should have did the o/t bit but can’t be arsed just like our political representatives.
Looks like the Murrels are just asset-stripping the SNP.
They say the information is exempt if –
“..it is reasonable to withhold the information until its planned publication”
And in their refusal of the request they claim that exemption:
“However, releasing this information early may cause further delays to the publication process of all accounts that we hold.”
Firstly: that’s a BS excuse, “it MAY cause further delays…”.
Secondly: How could releasing this information (which they already have) possibly “cause further delays”?
Thirdly: So what? That doesn’t provide a justification that “it is reasonable to withhold the information”.
If I was going to go through the review appeal process I’d focus on that point – how is it “reasonable”??
The UK’s regulatory offices and FOI as are a complete farce.
Nothing is transparent and nothing pertinent to investigation is available.
They, who the hell are they, if not the paid representatives of the people,
Use glib terms such as not in the interest of the public.
That’s is up to the public to decide.
We lost the documents by mistake.
We have redacted the documents to the extent that they are not worth reading.
But that’s a howler – we don’t need to tell you anything if we say we intend to make
The information you want public at a future date!
So if they don’t want to publish until the next Millennium, then that is supposed to be acceptable?
Not in my world is any of this acceptable!
The only Free information is the type that interests no one and has little bearing on anything.
The pigs are running the farm for the pigs.
The sheep are too sheepish to change this abomination.
So, what are you saying, that the Electoral Commission is covering for the SNP?
Bryan says:
25 September, 2020 at 3:04 pm
“If MI5 were to turn WOS it would look like it does now.”
I wonder how the SNP would look?
muscleguy@2.06
Your comment on the Alliance for Independence Party.
Any chance of showing the details of the party not trying again.
I heard something totally different. The name AFI was too close to Galloway’s AFU party. So the AFI will change the name slightly.
Surely the biggest problem is “an exemption for information that is intended to be published in the future.”
Followed by “the public authority intends the information to be published at some future date, whether that date is determined or not;”
That looks pretty suspect to me.
Who needs a giant squirrel, look there’s another SNP baaaad story
on the “Worlds no 1 Scottish Indy site”
Just keep feeding them Stu.
Odd that the EC is not bound by the Scottish FOI Act (in this instance) -in which case Section 27 applies.
Either way it is not reasonable that information held, that ought to have been published on a determined date in the past, can be exempted from publication on the premise that it may be published on an undetermined date in the future.
Less reasonable yet if the undetermined future publication date is determined by the submission (or otherwise) of information provided by third parties currently in default.
Their taking the piss out of us treating us with contempt but then remember the saying people get the government they deserve ??? Playing by their rules we will never win the real culprits are us for putting up with it ???
I hope this isn’t O/T too soon…
I think it was Dan who mentioned the story of the eagle tag being found.
Just read this in The Tully.
“Animal welfare campaigners say the discovery of a golden eagle’s satellite tag, dumped in a river and wrapped in heavy lead sheeting, is “unequivocal proof” the bird has been illegally killed.
The tag, which had been on a young eagle which disappeared in May 2016, was found by a father and son in the River Braan near Dunkeld, Perthshire, a few miles from the last known location of the bird.”
[snip]
“The Scottish Gamekeepers Association has said the bird being killed is “just one of many possible interpretations” of what could have happened.”
How brass-necked is it possible for the Scottish Gamekeepers Association to be?
link to eveningtelegraph.co.uk
It’s not another SNPBAAAD story. If the Rev’s wrong, then egg on face. If he’s right, they’ve nae money. So to fight next year’s election, never mind a referendum they’ll be asking us Indy supporters for cash.
This, and the Salmond stitch-up, wokies on a roll is all one of a piece.
Also if everything’s hunkydory, why is Mr. MacAskill on here asking for Murrell to be suspended and Ms. Cherry in the National today calling for a clear out of the NEC?
In reply to Astonished according to the spreadsheet only Breege has passed vetting for the three potential candidates in Argyll and Bute
Bryan @3.04pm
Ever thought that perhaps WOS is trying to keep the SNP honest so as to keep independence something more than a pipe dream?
You know… conspiracy to jail an innocent man, conspiracy to prevent an MP from standing in HR, turning a blind eye to attempts to deselect MSPs who speak out against the GRA, a CEO who encourages interference in a police investigation, a FM who has most likely lied to Parliament, and a possible missing 500,000 smakaroonies ring-fenced for an independence campaign kinda warrants some criticism here at WOS, don’t you think?
And don’t get me started on Leslie Evans botched biased policy to string up AS that cost the tax payer at least 500k.
Or are you just a shusher from WGD that likes to bemoan the Tories, while conveniently ignoring the corruption of the SNP government?
If you want independence you need an honest government to deliver it. Not one that could easily be as corrupt as any WM gov. Right now, the SNP are not looking like angels and they need called out and cleaned up.
Katherine, it’s much more serious than having no money… we are talking about almost half a million pound, money donated for a very specific purpose by ordinary people that was supposed to be ring fenced.
If that money has been filtered, it’s extremely serious.
So, basically, it looks more and more like the SNP – the radical Scottish independence party, which threatened the British state, is now being protected by the British state. SNP…Stronger For Britain 🙁
Probably spent the ££££ on gin. THE Covid Killer….much better than bleach.
Something smells a bit fishy here, the date is getting pushed back further and further even though they hold the information you request.
The pandemic could see the EC hold of until next year (after May’s elections even) or just before the elections if the accounts are linked to or hold damaging information to the party.
“Alliance for Independence who now it turns out got turned down by the EC and won’t be trying again.”
Muscleguy.
As far as I can recall, it was only the name the EC rejected, and a few correctable minor details.
Do you have a link too that.
Ask for a review then appeal to the Scottish Information Commissioner?
@Gary45%
The clear and present danger to the chance of achieving independence in the short to medium is the attitude of hard of thinking gradualists insisting against all the evidence that the SNP is our only hope, and that anyone criticising them is a yoon/MI5 operative/in it for the money [delete ridiculous tin-foil hattery excuse as applicable].
If you can look at the current state of the SNP, particularly its leadership, activist base and recent performance on a range of issues, and still cling to the belief that they are the only game in town, or that they can somehow be “cleansed”, and that any opposition however principled must be not just wrong but malign and/or the product of closet unionists or folk intent on harming “the cause”, you need to go and give yourself a good shake.
This place and the rest of the interweb is fairly bursting with disillusioned former SNP members and voters.
Are you honestly trying to say they all have some crazy anti-independence agenda?
Surely you just can’t be that lacking in self awareness…?
Or are you just more used to Wee Ginger Dug and thought you’d come in here to mix it up a bit?
Awa’ and gie us peace!
@Hatuey
I suspect the delay is because the SNP leadership is desperately looking for ££ to fill the ring-fenced hole. Weir, may God bless his soul, is no longer there to tap and would have told them to get lost anyway. They cannae afford to publish without resolving this lacuna. As an aside I am amazed at the sheer number of nominally independent institutions, EC, Procurator Fiscal, Advocate, Police, that appear to have been corrupted by ScotGov.
@ Bryan
Is it not time to stand back and take an inventory of all the available evidence? There’s something seriously amiss, It pains me to say, within the SNP. Ignoring the fact is to nobody’s advantage.
@katherine hamilton says:
25 September, 2020 at 4:54 pm
“Also if everything’s hunkydory, why is Mr. MacAskill on here asking for Murrell to be suspended and Ms. Cherry in the National today calling for a clear out of the NEC?”
Exactly. Neither of them would do anything that might reflect badly on the SNP and give ammunition to their opponents, unless they had serious concerns. To go public is a warning flag.
Bryan, Gary 45% and others , what would you have Stuart Campbell do, c’mon tell us malcontents honestly, what are your preferences, would you like him to keep shtum and leave it for the unionist rags to uncover and spread widely over Scotland and engerland with THEIR SLANT and PUTRID accusations
Has Stuart published untruths and can you expose these untruths to us independence supporters so that we can agree with your opinions , and that APPEAL goes out to leither (shrodingers cat) and the others who feel Stuart is going rogue, or has been captured
I am embarrassed at my fellow Scottish independence supporters calling for this man to STOP his exposures of the malignant cancer GROWING within the party we HOPE to guide us to independence, I am also extremely angry that NS and her coterie of lunatics are using the DESPERATION of independence supporters to subvert a noble cause in favour of furthering her own questionable aims
If there was NO DIRT to be found and NS and the SNP were forwarding and fighting with everything for independence there would be NO DIVISION within the YES group and Stuart Campbell would still be on his well deserved holiday, but heyho let’s just BLAME THE MESSENGER for Nicola’s numerous fuckups
O/T
Majority
Q1 Will SNP and Nicola go for independence if they get majority in the next election?
A1 They already have a majority, as in right now.
Q2 With 100% + 100% list votes then.
A2 Then the answer is a given; the answer is no. They already have absolute majority, and have for years.
Q3 With a mandate then?
A3 They already have one.
Q4 Another mandate then?
A4 That too
Q5 Yet another then?
A5 That too, repeatedly
Q6 With a majority in the polls before a campaign is started?
A6 That would be like scoring in a open goal. Best delay to see if it might pass.
Q7 An urgent reason to move with all haste then?
A7 Midnight in the middle of the winter, 31-december, the end of the protection of the transition period.
Q8 With S30, and Westminster begging: Please take all these resources and income of our hands.
A8 Kind of implausible, but it would not make the tiniest of difference. What could SNP say; We haven’t built a civil service, you have, please rule us, we are not ready?
Extracts from ICO guidance:
It is a qualified exemption and therefore public authorities must consider whether the public interest in maintaining the exemption is greater than the public interest in disclosing the requested information
when a public authority wishes to withhold information under a qualified exemption, it must carry out a two-stage process.
Firstly, it must decide that the exemption is engaged ie the exemption applies to the requestedinformation.
Then it must carry out the public interest test, which means that it must decide whether the public interest is better served by maintaining the exemption (and hence withholding the information) or by disclosing the information.
The effect of section 2(2)(b) is that when the authority has carried out the public interest test, itcan only withhold the information if the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing it. If the public interest is equal on both sides, then the information must be released. If the public interest in disclosure is greater than the public interest in maintaining the exemption,then the information must also be released.
Ends.
The information requested is singularly related to ONE set of Accounts. The suggestion that the information be withheld because somehow it hs to be incorporated with the release of Accounts of other parties is imho close to spurious, if not totally so.
Well here goes.
Stu is probably correct in his investigative work, he has been on the “ball” since in birth of WoS.
Not to sound like a disillusioned, broken record, wokistasi Sturgeonista, ( whatever the FK that is?) If and its a massive if, the SNP don’t get a credible number of seats next year, you can and will say cheerio to Independence. The Yoon parties and the Yoon media will kill the Indy prospect stone dead.
Even when the SNP have won the majority of seats its still a loss in their eyes.
Yes the problems are there for all to see, but surely it has to be Independence first at any cost, then the cleaning out can start.
Who can guarantee the SNP will be the party who will be the first Indy Government. In an Indy Scotland, whoever has the best vision for our country will get my vote.
An Independent Scotland, that’s all that matters to me.
How we get there I don’t give a toss, we have been ruled by corruption for centuries.
Bring it on.
@BDtt
That area is the #BermudaTriangleForRaptors
Word on the street is that Steve Miller won’t visit North Perthshire…
@Gary45%
Much as expected then. Stun us wi’ another! 🙁
It doesn’t MATTER what number of seats the SNP get @ HR2021, or what % they gain, because the platform they are running on has already conceded that the British nationalists have a veto. We all know that it is pretty unlikely that the result in 8 months time will be anything other than a victory for pro-independence parties, even if the SNP don’t win an absolute majority.
The yoon parties and media don’t HAVE to do anything: SFA in fact, because all Westminster has to do on the day after an SNP victory next May is say “Now is not the time” again.
And they will.
Repeatedly.
The “problems there for all to see” can’t and shouldn’t be swept under the already bulging patent eyes-on-the-prize-super-capacious-indy-and-nowt-else-matters rug.
Given recent performance I’m praying the deeply dysfunctional and regressive SNP machine will NOT be the first post indy government. If Scots have any sense they’ll do the same to Sturgeon as British voters did to Churchill in 1945.
Your “indy is all that matter” myopia is not only lame, it’s dangerous.
I, and many others DO give a toss how we get there, and what the better nation we aspire to looks like. I honestly wonder if know-nothings like you are the kind of people I could even campaign along side: you and I seem to want very different things. At least with out and out yoons I know who the political “enemy” is. With people like you though, it’s more difficult.
You’d happily give the current horror show that is the SNP carte blanche to construct their dystopian promised land of the Woke Stasi’s wet dreams, all in the name of being independent at absolutely any cost.
Not in my name. Not now, not ever.
@Gary45% –
You’re one of the few WOS critics who had the guts to come back here and apologise in the face of the mounting evidence that indyref2 isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
But your anger is totally understandable and shared by so many, even those of us who like to maintain an air of serenity and calm (!).
So, what is to be done?
We have used the democratic process to select people who – we believed at any rate – share our desire for freedom from WM rule. And perhaps they do share that desire – unfortunately, the party apparatchiks and whips and civil servants who operate government appear not to be keen at all. In fact, it very much looks like they are stymying the process.
Let’s, just for argument’s sake, assume that the SNP is rotten, the government is rotten, the civil service, Police, courts and Fourth Estate are all corrupt and/or compromised in all sorts of ways. So, what then?
Do we abandon the ambition to restore Scotland’s status as a free and independent nation just because of institutional decay? Because if we give it up so easily then we never deserved it to begin with.
I don’t have any answers. My own version of ‘A Modest Proposal’ would be for the majority of the grassroots Yes movement to get its act together and send a simple message to the SNP/SG – give us the date of indyref2 before Brexit comes into effect, and make sure that date is in 2021. Otherwise, all bets are off – civil disobedience, general strike, occupations, blockades, and every other peaceful method of disruption will be used and escalated until we get a democratic channel for our legitimate ambition i.e. the channel we’ve been promised for years.
Does that sound fair enough to you?
If so, let’s set about planning that rather than getting ourselves depressed over the state of things right now – things can and will improve, but only if we don’t leave it to the cosy pals who’ve got us into this mess.
@ awrenceab says:
“As an aside I am amazed at the sheer number of nominally independent institutions, EC, Procurator Fiscal, Advocate, Police, that appear to have been corrupted by ScotGov.”
I agree. Unless we’ve got it all completely and utterly wrong about the SNP, then how can what is outside of Scotland, a minority political party, hold so much sway and influence over these people and major institutions?
I don’t think they can, so I suspect something much bigger at play here than simply mismanagement (or astute man management) by The Murrells.
Something else is afoot.
Seriously. What is Mr Murell actually doing with his time? As Chief Executive he should have these figures to hand.
What are they wanting to hide.? I think we know. Membership and ring fenced referendum campaign money come to mind.
I hope I’m wrong.
@ Gary 6.15pm okay Gary I accept where you are coming from , I may even agree with you to a certain extent if it were obvious that EVERYTHING in NS power was being done to get us indy , but lets be honest currently NS and coterie are doing EVERYTHING in their power to AVOID ANYTHING to do with indy even talking to yes groups is ignored
Gary45%, you’re either an attention seeker with average intelligence or complete fucking idiot who can’t imbibe basic ideas.
I’ve lost patience either way with you inept crap.
You say;
“Yes the problems are there for all to see, but surely it has to be Independence first at any cost, then the cleaning out can start…”
It’s apparent to an eyeless amoeba in the darkest fathoms of the deepest ocean that you will only get a chance of independence by getting rid of this bunch of charlatans.
Actually, charlatans is a diplomatic way of putting it and to hell with diplomatic. It’s looking increasingly like the ring fenced money that many of us contributed to has been appropriated in some way.
The one thing that’s common to all these allegations, about Salmond, the funds, Craig Murray, Cherry, GRA, everything, is their ability to hide the truth and evidence. Let’s see how long they can keep spinning those plates…
It is quite astonishing that you can come on here in full knowledge of all this and talk as if supporting these fakes will ever lead to independence.
We owe a huge debt to Wings for what he does on all this stuff. The truth is nobody else has the balls because, let’s be absolutely honest, we are dealing with a scary bunch of control freaks here.
Yes, scary.
And beyond gratitude, we should be assuring Wings that we are with him all the way and that we will support him, whatever happens, with funds and anything else we can contribute.
Gary 45% @ 6.15
Getting independence is all that matters , I agree !
Otherwise we are looking at being ruled and robbed by the corruption we never have and never will be able to do anything about.
In every way that matters bringing yer government within slapping distance is our best chance of achieving a decent country to live in.
But…. and it’s a big but….
I always, always want to know just what those charged with the distribution of our wealth, resources and endeavours are up to no matter what point we are at on our journey to ending that accursed union.
There is no wrong time to expose this stuff.
We might have time to address it we might no and we should certainly try…but at the very least,anyone who comes here will no find themselves stunned into inaction in the run up to or just after an independence vote.
Forewarned is forarmed so to speak.
The British Nationalists Media won’t get to play with us on their terms and we will eventually have our say.
Wings is no doing the MSMs job for them here as some accuse…..He is heading ( or trying to) their grand scandals off and diluting the value of any potential scoop.
This is a good thing…mibbi no for the SNP …. but he and we are no all SNP.
And mair tae the point….. He hasn’t created any of the machinations that’s all self inflicted by the SNP.
No British Nationalists will get to inform the Yes movement that the SNP are not what we think they are and smugly prove it…… we’ll already know and we can mind our own Governments business when we get the freedoms to do so, and they do say “the truth shall set ye free” don’t they !
There is often the impression given that if the faults of the SNP are not mentioned by Independence supporters then the unionists will not notice them and that somehow those that are critical of the SNP are giving ammunition to the other side.
Suella Braverman’s jibes at Joanna Cherry about the NEC are an illustration that the Tories and the rest are just biding their time. Do the defenders of the SNP really believe that it is only WoS that notices what is going on?
This is all being held ready for the Holyrood election when the SNP – to coin a phrase – will be fighting fires on all fronts. They would be far better to lance the boil of the NEC, Murrell and the identity brigade before May 2021. Otherwise a week or two before the election, when the polls are riding high, the whole putrid mess will be released.
We know the MSM sit on this stuff waiting for the best time. They don’t care whether its true or not but what damage it will cause. Better to get it all dealt with and go to the people with no secrets. A party that can look at itself and reflect is one that deserves respect. If however, they believe there is nothing wrong then they deserve whatever comes their way.
The options I see are
1) crash the Scottish government now and call an election before end of the year, key point being Indyref2 very soon ie 3 months
2) wait till April after brexit bites, but risk loss of power
3) kick down road to the UK elections in 4 years, and nicola loses her job next year
I think salmond would go for 1)
Stu are you doing anything about a wings party
To be reasonable, and ensure the integrity and transparency of party and election finance, robust Electoral Commission regulation allows executive and exclusive actions of account holders (e.g. unprecedented public/societal restrictions imposed)to control publication of, and any subsequent delays in publication of their accounts.
Public must get used to the ‘New BANANA UK Normal’…
@Lizg
You beat me to it1
Glad to see Scottish Green Party’s recent Members’ Survey had 1) Climate Change as folk’s top concern, followed by 2) Scottish Independence 3) Jobs and the Economy 4) Land Reform … and 9) Equalities, so I think these are good priorities.
As the cousins would say…“Like nailing jello to a wall”.
Good luck Rev…ILLEGETIMI NON CARBORUNDUM
@Karen Allen
…and yet the party itself has made it clear that anyone who doesn’t uncritically accept the TWAW mantra isn’t welcome in the party.
It’s almost as if they’re as utterly lost as the SNP.
“I don’t have any answers. My own version of ‘A Modest Proposal’ would be for the majority of the grassroots Yes movement to get its act together and send a simple message to the SNP/SG – give us the date of indyref2 before Brexit comes into effect, and make sure that date is in 2021. Otherwise, all bets are off – civil disobedience, general strike, occupations, blockades, and every other peaceful method of disruption will be used and escalated until we get a democratic channel for our legitimate ambition i.e. the channel we’ve been promised for years.” Iain Brotherhood.
I think this is where we are heading. The genderwoowoo science denying cultists have snuck in and stolen our party. They all have to go hopefully asap. Independence was never their priority. Their priority was always obtaining political power.
Mr Salmond still has to have his say at the inquiry. And I don’t think he’ll miss. If murrell is as bad as I now suspect then he has to be toast.
I am saddened that he fooled me for years.
No matter the number of mandates, the present leaders of the SNP appear not to want independence.
Someone said earlier they don’t care if the SNP is corrupt so long as they win us independence, likewise I agree I’ll take independence by fair means or foul, but the corruption that has so evidently infested the SNP will be used to against us by the unionists,they know as well as we do what’s going on, they possibly engineered it.
The Alex Salmond stitch up has to be the biggest SNP Bad story ever yet their silence on it is deafening, there’s a reason for that and it’s not because they don’t want to damage the Indy movement, it’s because they’re waiting on the right time it’s all about timing.
We have to disarm them now and the only way to do that is to get it out into the open as soon as possible and get our party back and battle ready for HR21, heads will have to roll including but not exclusively Nicola Sturgeons
Sorry to say the Tories are corrupt to the core.
Tory Communities Secretary Jenrick had promised
£25 million pound funds to 61 UK Deprived areas.
They did try to hide the payments but the Auditors
Insisted to know where the money went.
60 of the areas were to Tory marginal seats other than
The money to his own seat that has a 10,000 plus majority.
Is that the SNP advising Scots about this?
No it isn’t. Busy with GRE?
Cheers all for the constructive comments.
Yes in an ideal situation having the “perfect scenario” in a totally transparent and 95+% honest Scottish Independent Government, is what the vast majority of us want.
Having been sucked into the political “blogisphere”, the last 6 years of constant negativity towards specifically the SNP from what seemed like everywhere, it really wears you down.
My comment of Indy at any cost, really stems from following the signs of any loss in support for the SNP ( yes they deserve it regarding their failing in Indy2) is used as a nail in the coffin for the Indy movement.
IMHO trying to change the leadership at this stage would be counterproductive. It would be fantastic of we could have a credible new Indy party for next years election, but new party, new potential politicians in government might be a bridge too far at the moment.
Don’t think for one moment its SNP or nothing from me, its just in the current climate any rocking the boat will set fear in the undecided.
Yes I have been proven wrong in my faith in the SNP,( I always thought they were “different” from the rest, but you learn from mistakes.”
Re reading the Rev’s article I wonder if the next FOI request should not be aimed at the EC instead of the SNP.
Are they covering up for the SNP?
Are they investigating the SNP with a view to disclosing same during or near to a Holyrood Election?
Are they doing both at the same time?
It may not be ‘in the public’ interest, but I would suggest there are members of the SNP concerned about possible criminal irregularities who could and should be able to ‘require’ this information.
Who within the EC is responsible for this decision – and what are the guidelines for delay in publication until nearer an Election – political consequences – that’s for sure.
Omg they, The SNP are now heading in the same direction as the Tories, set up activists and leaders whose goal is Independence, riddled with MI5 plants and gradualist, career MPs and MSPs.
Now even John Swinney tainted with gradualism fromast Barrhead Boy interview.
Its sick, nothing but a unionist party in clocked independence guise.
With Independence on the back burner and only bad news coming out about the woke hierarchy at Bute House I am going to watch Scott Mackenna play his first game for Nottingham Forrest.
Good luck Scott. All Dons wish you all the best.
Wee Chid @ 4:26 pm
Bryan says:
25 September, 2020 at 3:04 pm
“If MI5 were to turn WOS it would look like it does now.”
I wonder how the SNP would look?
Scottish Labour?
Gary 45%
We’re not daft. We all know it has to be SNP1/Wings(hopefully)2 at the election next year. Some on here are saying they won’t, but I think they will. Con/Lab government anyone?
However that needs to go in parallel with exposing the clear corruption at play here. As I said above we are now seeing moves at higher levels of the SNP and Mr. Salmond still has to do his thing yet.
Only SNP members can oust Ms. Sturgeon but I don’t think they should. Outside this heated debate she is an asset.
Let’s get hubby first, she will follow, I’m sure. That seems to be where Mr MacKascill is going.
When we have a supermajority in Holyrood and no date for a referendum, all SNP members should resign en mass and leave them to it. After next year it’s all over anyway.
Just another example of the rot that sits at the heart of every so called regulatory body.
But why is it being held back. What is there to hide or expose. Something is wrong, delays in disclosure like this do not happen without a reason.
Good investigative journalism. But maybe Peter Murrell may authorise their release?
Ah, the last was a joke. Murrell just tried to jail innocent men.
Gary 45 % @ 7.34
Don’t be that hard on yer self Gary!
To get anywhere in the British Political system the SNP had in some respects to become a British Political Party…
And as with much ( probably everything else ) we didn’t draw up the blue print of how that particular crock of shit operates.
To use the British system they had to be in the British system so to speak.
Therefore it’s mibbi no all that surprising the same rot sets in….to what extent we don’t yet know!
But they, unlike the others , are it seems getting away with nothing and that’s what gives me hope.
That’s where they are different Gary….the assumption that they are the ruling elite and are born and educated to it ,is ,to mangle a phrase “a distinctly English concept that has nae place in Scotland ”
Silver Darling @ 7.09
🙂
I’m gonna say Great Minds …LOL
Katherine Hamilton @ 8.04pm
-Outside this heated debate she is an asset-
Either you believe NS is pro indy or you don’t. Her track record now strongly suggests she wants to keep the status quo in which case the long overdue departure of her avaricious hubby changes nothing and independence under her and her cabal is a pipe dream. We have little time left to avoid castration of the movement, As Cromwell once said to a bunch of corrupt useless politicians – In the name of God, go!-
The SNP has to clean out their stable double quick or we must have an alternative to vote for. As I have said several times on here nothing concentrates the mind like lack of cash. Tear up your membership cards, stop the subscriptions and donations and tell them why. When the madness stops the cash can flow again but, if we do nothing in the meantime, we are gubbed.
To those unhappy with putting the SNP leadership under the microscope in this way because it will damage chances of Indy – what the hell do you think the MSM and opponents will do with this kind of thing DURING a Referendum campaign? How damaging will THAT be. Clear out the stables now. It’s the only option.
Much as some people want it, there is not going to be a referendum or an early Scottish election before next year. Any attempt to do either will blow up in Nicola’s face.
COVID is the reason, even if you are one of the unbelievers (ie airheads).
It is also a convenient excuse for a multitude of delays and distractions. You could not have been dealt a better hand.
Totally agree with silver darling at 7.06
Just to be clear, “airheads” refer to those who think COVID is a 5G manufactured conspiracy created by Elvis.
This blog is becoming like a kangaroo court.
Elmac,
Nicola Sturgeon is not on the ballot paper, SNP is. That’s who people will have the choice to vote for. The people who matter, voters, think she is in favour of Indy and that’s enough. I really don’t care what’s in her head.
As I said a date for Indy next year is a must. If it’s not there then you’ll be right.
The SNP won’t clear out their stables, there won’t be an alternative cause there’s no time, but I have no problem with people leaving now. I did some months ago.
The pathetic fact is they’ve got us by the short and curlies UNLESS Kenny and Joanne have a plan. He’s after Murrell, she’s after the NEC, so lets see if something emerges to rally around. Hell I might even rejoin to support them.
From The Constitution of the Scottish National Party
The aims of the Party are –
(a) Independence for Scotland; …
(b) the furtherance of all Scottish interests.
Code of Conduct for Members
1 Every member owes a duty to the Party to abide by its constitutionally laid down policy and direction and its Constitution, Rules and Standing Orders.
One ponders on the Destiny of Spear…
link to twitter.com
Will the west coast and islands SNPers select her to represent them, or tell her to get in the sea for excessive bullshitting.
@Sandy says:
25 September, 2020 at 8:46 pm
“This blog is becoming like a kangaroo court.”
How? From what I’ve seen here, everyone is free to make a post and defend their viewpoint.
As for kangaroo courts, if the Hate Bill gets its way we will have court actions that will make North Korea seem like liberal heaven.
Beaker says: 25 September, 2020 at 8:41 pm
Another perspective is that Boris & co are wanting a no-deal exit. They have the perfect cover of Brexit to engineer one and the inevitable fall-out caused by it will be spinned under the current outbreak.
This is pure speculation on my part. Nobody knows how the negotiations will go. If it does go to a no-deal Brexit, it is wise to go straight into a referendum?
As much as I don’t like the way the SNP has gone about lately but we need to have cool heads and see how the reality we face in a couple of months time pan out.
If the SNP accounts are as bad a suspected, who would know?
In other words, who prepares them for the EC?
I don’t think Nic and Pete alone are privy to the information.
Does anyone know who else in the SNP would be involved in prepartion of the accounts? (Besides the accountancy firm involved).
@Gary45% 6.15 pm
If and its a massive if, the SNP don’t get a credible number of seats next year, you can and will say cheerio to Independence.
Is that an argument for the SNP to deliver independence now? With the seats they already have.
Or should they wait to see if they loose enough seats to make it untenable?
The Yoon parties and the Yoon media will kill the Indy prospect stone dead.
Even when the SNP have won the majority of seats its still a loss in their eyes.
As you have noticed that SNP have the majority of seats, do you see the way out?
It don’t have to be a prospect.
That would solve the problem with Yoon entities rather quickly too, for obvious reasons.
Yes the problems are there for all to see, but surely it has to be Independence first at any cost, then the cleaning out can start.
First?
Like in right now?
Or years ago already?
Who can guarantee the SNP will be the party who will be the first Indy Government. In an Indy Scotland, whoever has the best vision for our country will get my vote.
I believe most indy supporters would concur. And I believe SNP is aware. In the very best light it might be why it has preserved the indy issue, by not delivering for as long as possible.
But loosing Scotland’s freedom forever by not delivering independence before the years end entails more than reduction of SNP seats.
And I do believe that loosing Scotland’s freedom forever will decimate SNP
An Independent Scotland, that’s all that matters to me.
Then you have less than 3 months to make SNP deliver independence IMO. A referendum to confirm (or discard) independence might possible be held in 2021 but that is after important protections of Scotland has ended. Westminster might exploit this.
Or make someone else do the same in the same time-span.
Good luck
Awizgonny says: 25 September, 2020 at 8:33 pm
A good point.
There was a comment on a previous post which essentially said we need to brush every bad thing about the SNP under the carpet, suck it up and go into a future referendum all SNP ra ra ra.
With that strategy, can anyone personally go into the referendum and say honestly to friends, family or work colleagues who are doubters that an independent Scotland will be more than a just a change of flags at Holyrood?
@Dan says:
25 September, 2020 at 8:57 pm
“One ponders on the Destiny of Spear…
link to twitter.com
Will the west coast and islands SNPers select her to represent them, or tell her to get in the sea for excessive bullshitting.”
Oops.
Too late to delete the tweet as well. Bet she still gets the nomination following Head Office “direction”.
Don’t listen to Susan Calman and the BBC for your Scottish history.
According to Ms Calman the Jacobites fought to restore British King James II to the throne.
The problem with that is the Battle of Killicrankie was fought in 1689 when Scotland and England were still two separate sovereign Kingdoms who shared a monarch. There was no Great Britain.
In Scotland, James was King James VII.
Sandy says: 25 September, 2020 at 8:46 pm
I don’t want to get involved in the recent posts on this site concerning the SNP but maybe if the Rev could allow senior SNP members to post their views to give balance and in doing so, engage with a section of the grassroots movements that don’t agree with their current strategy?
@Gary45%, Lizg et al –
Personally, not a problem seeing NS stay in place so long as she gets us a date for indyref2.
Her skills have been developed over decades and shouldn’t be taken for granted, but she needs to be reminded who she works for i.e. us.
Very few ever bought into the Yoon propaganda that Alex Salmond was a kind of cult leader. But NS is different. The image she has created and strengthened since she became FM is reassuring to the target demographic because she projects the kind of staid, canny, sober qualities beloved of Sunday Post readers. (Someone will one day write a PhD about her suits.) And there’s nothing wrong with that.
But she’s no ‘leader’. She’s no Salmond. There is no fire, no passion, no conviction, and putting Davidson/Rennie/Carlaw/Leonard ‘in their place’ at FMQs doesn’t butter many parsnips. Unfortunately, it’s not easy to grow a personality cult when you’ve hee-haw personality to build on. Her daily outpouring of sympathy ‘I understand, I really do, I feel heartsore’ etc etc sounds hollower with every repetition and the frequency of first-person usage in these speeches has become more embarrassing than reassuring.
But if she can use her skills to arrange indyref2? fair enough. Many would happily wait for that to be confirmed before she gets her jotters, is suspended, or resigns. It’s the least she could do to atone for the damage she’s done, and we should be fair-minded enough to allow her the chance to do it before leaving public life (in Scotland at any rate) permanently.
Are the Scottish Lib Dems, Labour and Tories not only accounting units of the English parties? If so, might these Scottish branch accounts be included in a breakdown of their English HQ accounts and have these, the English HQs accounts, been published?
If so, are we only waiting for the SNP and Scottish Greens to publish?
I beg Argyll and Bute to reject Rhiannon Spears as a candidate. She is the invisible woman in Pollok as she has not been seen after getting herself elected as councillor apart from an attempt to disrupt the local branch business. No presence at street stalls, leafleting, social events or election campaigning.
katherine hamilton @ 8:04 pm
This is from 2011
link to bbc.co.uk
“The Scottish government believe “devolution max” will secure a “yes” vote and so is the party’s back-up plan.
It could see a difference in taxes paid by Scottish people and the rest of the United Kingdom.
For example, the rate of income tax could vary by up to 10p in the pound compared with the rest of the UK.
The SNP maintain full independence is the party’s long term ambition, so this is seen as a stepping stone and a way of achieving independence in the long run.
The Scottish First Minister – and his party – have been set on independence, so failing to achieve that would be embarrassing. This second question on the referendum could end up saving him.
Alex Salmond hopes by promising to maintain links with England, independence could be achieved in the long run.”
If Scotland now has its Devo Max, and if Alex Salmond’s hopes are to be fulfilled the SNP will need to win an outright majority in the electionsfor the Scottish Parliament next year.
It is not clear if the opposition parties will want a second question on federalism..
Ian B @9:13
I could not have summed that up better if I tried, well articulated Ian.
katherine hamilton @ 8.52pm
NS may only be on one of the ballot papers but as things stand her group control all the other SNP names which appear, even to the extent that they are very carefully choosing who gets to represent the party. Her group is manipulating party policy and ignoring the wishes of those who elected them. It does matter what is in her head, even if people are misguided enough to still believe in her. During the 6 years which have passed since the last referendum she has been in charge and we have seen many opportunities to further the independence cause squandered. It is now becoming clear that this has been deliberate. If she stays in power I agree her popularity will be an asset in the Holyrood elections. But to what purpose? She cannot be trusted, and I believe there is sufficient groundswell to win a majority anyway. Better bite the bullet now than give her more time to kick the indyref can down the road, which is precisely what she would do.
There really is no more time to be had. Bojo will make his move soon to emasculate Holyrood. The infrastructure is already in place to run a parallel administration in Edinburgh, initially to run the powers repatriated by Brexit which should have gone to Holyrood, and ultimately to oversee all policies enacted by Holyrood with the right to block or vary these as they see fit. Legislation for the latter is currently in train at Westminster.
The game is up Katherine. It is now or never and she has to go tout suite. Like you I was a former member until 31 January this year when the penny dropped. I would rejoin in an instant if the Sturgeon cabal were removed and replaced by pro independence people and would happily contribute financially and on the streets. As it stands I think it is unlikely I can bring myself to vote again for SNP until change occurs.
I suspect the blessed Nicola’s strategy ( courtesy of Devi Sridhar) of imprisoning our students won’t end up being a vote winner. I can’t make m6 mind up who is more useless her or Boris?
Elmac @ 9;54
Agree 100%
Ian Brotherhood @ 9;13
I find myself in agreement with much of what you post here, however…
“But if she can use her skills to arrange indyref2? fair enough. Many would happily wait for that to be confirmed before she gets her jotters, is suspended, or resigns. It’s the least she could do to atone for the damage she’s done, and we should be fair-minded enough to allow her the chance to do it before leaving public life (in Scotland at any rate) permanently”.
What makes you think that she wouldn’t ‘throw it’ in the unlikely event she got it?
@robertknight (10.29) –
I’m not sure I understand.
‘throw it’?
You mean secure a 2nd indyref and then sabotage it?
Is Nicola Sturgeon a double agent?I’m totally fuckin confused now.
The more WoS keeps digging the more corrupt the system is shown to be.
Do I believe Sturgeon is an employee of the British State?
Honestly no. I do believe that some key strategists including her husband may very well be.
The current state of the SNP is due to his role as Chief Exec and indeed since his appointment things have gradually worsened. He has the ideal role to influence his wife and party in many directions or should that he misdirections.
Something very suspect about his role since 2014.
Ian Brotherhood @ 10:32
In a word, Yes.
Glasgow Anniesland SNP candidate choice:
You can vote for Bill Kidd or no vote for Bill Kidd.
t those who have noticed, and there cant be many who haven’t, the daily briefing has become a daily floor show.
Scotland’s very own agony aunt the FM gives Oscar performance of gravitas, concern and outrage as she plays the audience.
But strip away the Hollywood show time and underneath is a wee woman who with her odious clique would stop at nothing to keep control – and by nothing, I mean stop at nothing.
But she and her clique are living on borrowed time. They are being found out big time and the tide is going to turn with Nicola I suspect being deposed before the end of the year.
Sturgeon, Murrell and the clique have been found out and heir ousting is guaranteed. We, the independence movement, will kill this cancer before it kills us – and we know know where it resides!
Taking back control is underway.
I’m not voting for any colonial administrators at Holyrood, so I’m fine with whoever is SNP candidate or who is ISP or whatever.
It’s playing the British Imperial game. Nothing more.
I’m also fine with the Brits shutting down their colonial Holyrood parliament too.
the only difference it would make is to cut out the middle management of British colonialism – the SNP and other MSPs.
@robertknight (11.21) –
I appreciate the candour!
FWIW, I don’t believe she, or anyone else, could sabotage indyref2 – we would win it and they know it.
That’s why it must never be allowed to happen.
And that’s why they can’t and won’t commit to a date, no matter how distant – there’ll always be some excuse to swerve it. If it’s not the ‘bug’ it’ll be that ‘we need the economy to recover’ blahdy-blah ad nauseum.
Powerful thread here on Twitter, dissecting the ‘bug’/Uni stramash from a legal standpoint:
link to twitter.com
Ian Brotherhood @ 11:31
Fair enough. Sadly, given past performance I wouldn’t be betting the house on her not being capable of throwing a well-timed but wholly *unintentional” spanner in the works at the 11th hour.
Sufficient that is to have any soft Yes gravitate towards No.
IIRC anecdotal evidence from 2014 had Yes ahead until a combination of the Vow and Salmond’s inability to sell the sharing of Sterling to an unconvinced electorate swung the pendulum the other way.
Wouldn’t be hard to manufacture something similar, again at the 11th hour, if one was so inclined.
The peacemakers might be blessed, but that doesn’t mean they’re right.
Anyone that still thinks Sturgeon is willing or able to deliver indyref2 simply hasn’t been paying attention.
There’s a disturbing pattern developing in the Scottish Raj… you’ll struggle to find evidence of it though because they just bury everything and block access.
The Electoral Commission has a brass neck.
Rev, didn’t they once fine you for being a wee bit late with some Indyref campaign accounts? Some serious double standards going on here.
Too many on here are either reading spy novels or watching too many fantasy TV programmes.
Here is my theory. The indi fund has been wasted, squandered.
It makes sense therefore , for Nicola to delay indi ref 2 as long as possible. She didn’t walk into a trap with the Section 30. It was tactical. This whole thing is about money.
There is no fighting fund, so there cant be a referendum. The SNP might need 3 years to raise the funds. But the membership is imploding and the goodwill is gone.
Does anyone want to check Murrells garage for the 10 Ferraris.
Slip sliding away?
That will be the youth vote that Angus Robertson prefers to the over 55s. Rather a lot of angry students at the moment. Not just in Scotland, anywhere where there are halls of residence.
I suspect there’s been a substantial loss of members in the last year or two.
That, combined with the loss of major donors, could have caused serious trouble for the SNP. They could have spent the Indyref2 money on other election expenses, but that was not what the money was donated for, and would amount to a serious breach of trust, if not outright fraud.
The National front page today.
link to twitter.com
Sandy @ 12.13
Oh the Truth is always far more stranger than fiction…. don’t ye think -:)
@call me dave says:
26 September, 2020 at 1:04 am
“The National front page today.”
So what is Plan B, when it’s not clear what Plan A is?
Note they will ‘discuss’ a Plan B. That’s not quite the same as implementing it.
Quite convenient that the party conference, whenever it is, will probably be virtual. Cue lots of “technical difficulties”.
I have visions of Max Headroom chairing the proceedings…
I take it that the accounts of all parties always run by year and are always published together. And if they have those for SNP but haven’t yet published them because they’re waiting for another party to hand in theirs then possibly something is wrong in the accounts of another party. I would say, even given everything wrong about the party recently, they’ve always been above board as far as the electoral commission goes. So there’s hope they’re still clean that way, even if impoverished now.
@ Ian Brotherhood at 9.13 pm
Here, here. That is exactly my own belief. We need everyone we can possibly get to fight for independence. She still has a lot of support in the party and now does appeal to many unionists up here too because of covid and some are swithering because they feel Scotland might be able to do better still. They may not be there yet to independence, but some of that feeling of us doing better has come because of Sturgeon’s reassuring presence and that Sunday Post stuff.
This sect30 bullshit is a diversionary tactic and has always been so, anyone with an ounce of courage and belief would have challenged it in anyway possible legally and publicly , not only that they would have done it with MAXIMUM exposure and ANGER, that it has not been done only highlights the betrayal
HOWEVER all is not lost as Breeks,Lorna Campbell and now Joanna Cherry have stated independence will be WON on the constitutional question,all we have to do is wait on the ratification of the Internal Markets Bill and then we have to FORCE BY NUMBERS Nicola Sturgeon to IMMEDIATELY challenge it through the International Courts Of Justice and the United Nations assembly.The IMB destroys the Treaty Of Union between Scotland and England as JC has STATED in the HOC, there is also the Vienna convention on Treaties which the IMB also infringe
We are NOT STUFFED far from it BUT we have to ensure and FORCE NS and the SNP to take that route
1st STEP ratification of the IMB
2nd Step suspension of the Treaty Of Union
3rd STEP Challenge to the ICJ and UN ratifying the dissolution of the TOU
4th STEP If required, holding a referendum WHOLLY managed and run by the SG with NO interference or input from outside interests, and TOTALLY overseen by unbiased observers
WE have to ENCOURAGE Joanna Cherry to take this onboard and fight alongside us and FOR us
For goodness sake, the only organisation that is going to get us independence is the SNP.
Is this blog full of trolls?
Sandy @ 4.52
Is it Aye ?
Read it again
link to twitter.com
Oh dear. Spears caught telling porkies and stealing glory from those who properly deserve it.
How did such a liar and charlatan ever pass NEC vetting? Oh yeah, that’s right, she’s on the NEC with her chums.
Here’s “wee introduction” to Rhiannon Spears right enough… though most would call it a “wee warning” of what to expect.
Come on Argyll and Bute, you can do better than this…
From the National:
The motion has been drawn by Angus MacNeil MP and Councillor Chris McEleny who have agreed the text with the party’s national secretary Angus MacLeod.
MacNeil and McEleny are hopeful it will be debated at the SNP’s autumn conference to be held online because of Covid-19 restrictions.
The resolution notes that “the UK Government has refused to issue a Section 30 order to facilitate a referendum on Scottish independence” and condemns “the undemocratic approach of the UK Government in denying the mandate of the Scottish Government to give the people of Scotland a choice on their own future”.
It goes on to say that “conference reaffirms that holding a consented referendum on Scottish independence is our first preference” before setting out the details of what would happen if Johnson blocks a new vote.
The motion adds: “Conference calls on the Scottish Government to establish the legal competence of the Scottish Parliament holding a referendum on Scottish independence without the approval of the UK Parliament.
“Conference instructs that if a referendum on Scotland’s future is denied by the UK Government and the competence to hold a consultative referendum is not established, then the manifesto for the 2021 Scottish Parliamentary elections shall state that the election of a pro-independence majority of seats, in the absence of a referendum, shall be a mandate from the people of Scotland to commence independence negotiations with the UK Government.”
link to thenational.scot
Rhiannon Spear.
That’ll be the piece of excrement that supported the jawing of Manny Singh.
To quote her Twitter piece –
“ Manny has been reported to the PF because he did not comply with the Council’ s start times…… I hope he works with the Council from the start next time “
To use the words of the Americans this is one nasty piece of shit is Rhiannon Spear. Getting an Independence supporter jailed for organising a 100k plus Indy march is straight out of the attempt to jail Alex Salmond and others like journalists like Craig Murray and Mark Hirst.
Argyll and Bute would be well advised to stay away from this nasty piece of shit. And you know what, if she is the candidate, I predict she will lose the seat. The tide is turning.
Anybody want to like, explain, to me how this post or most comments aid in advancing Scottish independence as opposed to…?
You do realise that you’re all being played and are playing straight into the trap that the British establishment has set for independence movements all around the world?
I mean you’ll all have read up about how it works? you do realise that Scotland is going down a path which has been well trodden by literally dozens of countries over the last 150 years and every single one of them know exactly how it plays out…and are laughing at people like this site which devote themselves fir whatever well-meaning reasons to tearing down the only people who are able to advance a peaceful resolution of Scottish independence? you all did you know that don’t you because you’ve already up on the history of how to gain independence from the UK?
I suppose it’s much more important to be purist than to be independent…
@ brian lucey
Your line of argument becomes no more convincing for its constant repetition by hard of thinking SNP loyalists you know. This evidence free “you’re being played” “eyes on the prize” “you’re all yoon dupes” schtick keeps getting trotted out, even as it’s brave defenders continue to ignore the rather large elephant in the corner: it’s the SNP leadership which is the most clear and present danger to achieving independence in the short to medium term, not those of us taking issue with what passes for their strategy.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that there is something far wrong with the party. Airily pretending everything is fine because the polls look OK, or because Sturgeon’s performance is made to look better than it is because her opposition is essentially sentient spam, might fool some of the people some of the time, but it’s obviously not convincing many former members and supporters.
Gradualism isn’t working.
You may be content to wait a decade or two for independence, the realists in the movement aren’t.
@Rev Stu
I understand whoever is leading the Alliance for Indy (I forget) came out with a statement saying they going to do something else instead. A statement which in effect said ‘we aren’t going to be a registered party’.
I expect the EC turned them down since they weren’t going to have members, just be an umbrella organisation for Yes groups who would stand candidates. How they proposed to handle all the policy disagreements was never explained. If I was the EC I would have turned them down as not being coherent enough to be a party.
@ ElGordo
‘From the National:
The motion has been drawn by Angus MacNeil MP and Councillor Chris McEleny who have agreed the text with the party’s national secretary Angus MacLeod.’
Yay, whether it will succeed who knows but at least there’s some movement to try to provide what a lot of members seem to want.
Thank you for posting since I rarely read the National now. 🙂
@ Andy Ellis
I’m not in Scotland I’m in Ireland. Where we have independence and have had 100 years. so maybe you might like to benefit from the experience of Nations such as Ireland who have been down this road before. Or Malta. Cyprus. India. There’s a whole world of experience to draw on and Scottish nationalism divided plays into the hands of those who are the heirs to those who tried to keep the Empire together.
But sure, go ahead and reinvent the wheel.
Andy Ellis says: 26 September, 2020 at 9:13 am
I support Gradualism but I just don’t see any strategy to gain more powers. It just feels that that scene from Oliver Twist where the wee wee lad says Please Sir I Want Some More and the reaction he gets is exactly the same as what happens with the SNP and their meek requests.
The SNP can’t get beyond going on TV programmes and constantly get interrupted, belittled and shouted over. If they can’t get a healthy relationship with the media then how are they supposed to gain extra powers from an extremely hostile and antagonistic establishment in Westminster that has no ideological interest or even anything to gain by transferring over powers?
@brian lucey
If you’re Irish I’d have expected you to be a bit more savvy about the parallels between the SNP and the Irish Parliamentary Party.
If the experience of our Irish cousins teaches us anything with respect to the current situation, it is surely that asking permission will never result in independence?
If your forebears had been led by Sturgeon you’d still be part of the UK.
Listen, there’s no prospect of Sturgeon securing indyref2 – can the dafties in the room stop talking about it as if it’s even a possibility?
Let’s look at the facts…
They basically banned people from discussing independence at the last conference (at fringe meetings ffs).
Now it’s looking like they blew all the indyref funds. Where does that leave us if we go into an indy campaign? No need to worry on that score…
Salmond, the last man to actually achieve a referendum, would be in jail right now if it was up to this Scottish government.
It looks like anyone that crosses them or disagrees with them on the indy question gets blacklisted or taken to court. (Murray, Manny, Hirst, etc.)
If we lack evidence or proof on any of the above, it’s because they won’t let us access the evidence and proof.
Brexit was a sparkling gift to the indy movement after the defeat of 2014. They blew that too.
What did we get instead of a real fight for independence? Believe me, I wish I could say “fuck all”.
But no, we got GRA and the most regressive anti-free speech legislation the world has seen since the Stasi closed its doors.
Their stated policy on indyref is to hinge everything on the alacrity of Westminster politicians who are going out of their way every week to tell us it’s never going to happen.
Jesus Christ.
brian @10:19 am
Irish nationalism was pretty divided, but independence gained nevertheless.
@Pac Man
The pertinent question would seem to be: WHY do you still support gradualism given the current environment, and given the hopelessness of your prospectus as detailed in the rest of your post?
The reason the “power devolved is power retained” aphorism is so popular is that it has been repeatedly proven in realpolitik. In the end, we don’t ask, we take. The gradualist prospectus presupposes a rational opponent prepared to negotiate and act in good faith.
British nationalists asserting that Scots need their permission to vote will happily give gradualists enough rope to hang the independence movement with. Holyrood will be lucky to hold on to the limited powers it already has, never mind have more transferred to it. Expect a rolling out of increased powers for local government, elected metro mayors and the beefing up of the Viceroy’s new shadow government to hobble Holyrood more and ensure independence becomes functionally impossible.
Anyone who thinks we need Westminster’s approval either to vote for independence, or actually become independent once we have held a referendum or plebiscitary elections, is a devolusionist at heart. If push came to shove, most of them would settle for devo-max or neo-Dominion status and quietly accept the Queen as head of state, Trident and continual government by parties in London Scots reject at the ballot box.
@kapelmeister
Indeed. After a bloody war.
Andy and the anti-gradualistas seem to be drifting that way…?
Kapel. The difference with Ireland. Was that the population weren’t subjugated into the British identity, the way at least 30% of Scots are.
In other words. We are fighting a war from within and from out with. 300 years of British pish takes a while to root out.
Unfortunately the majority of these Brits own half our bloody land.
Andy. You are spit on.
But I suspect the reason Nicola is asking. Is because the SNP spent all the fighting fund. They know they cant do a crowdfunder, because people will ask where the other funds went!
Also nobody would actually believe they would deliver a referendum.
Murrell has really fucked this up. He is a charlatan and a spiv.
@brian
Unity now, under Sturgeon, would mean the nullification of the independence movement. Her autocratic behaviour and misreatment of several SNP members, the obsession with GRA, the promotion of trashy people to the NEC, unaccountability of funds, and the matter of what appears a literally criminal conspiracy against Alex Salmond. All that would be reason enough to defy Sturgeon.
Above all, her retreat from actively seeking independence at a time when determined leadership would achieve it, given the favourable circumstance created by brexit and Tory power grabs.
A movement united behind such a figure is an impossibility.
brian – do you suggest India as a positive example? Is it possible that you have not read of Partition?
The leader o’ the SNP is aye keen tae share wi us the books she’s read. It would be fine if we also got the chance tae hae a wee look at the SNP’s books.
Woodside Willie @12:21
It’ll never be Auditor’s Choice!
@brian lucey
I’m not an advocate of violence and suspect vanishingly few are. The strength of civic nationalism rests firmly in advocating peaceful change via the ballot box. In the event British nationalists refused all reasonable compromise, then the next inevitable step would be non-violent resistance, non co-operation with the British state and its organs and the parallel establishment of alternative Scottish governance.
Of course, unless you’re an advocate of absolute pacifism and non-violent resistance you are constrained to explain what a people does when faced with violent suppression and denial of their democratic rights. Self defence is as much of a right as self determination: the $64,000 question is when and under what circumstances the line is crossed. Some of your countrymen felt that time was Easter 1916, but the truth is few Irish folk agreed with them at the time.
Of course Scots in 2020 don’t face the same situation or the same choices as their Irish cousins did in 1916 or in 1921. It is legitimate to ask however what might happen in the event a future British nationalist government refused to accept a clear vote for independence and then went further and for example closed Holyrood down, jailed pro-independence leaders and prohibited their parties and/or used violence against pro-independence protests.
If unionists, both in England and Scotland, don’t want to conjure the Ulsterisation of Scots politics, they need to justify their attempts to veto the democratic mandate expressed by Scots at successive elections.
Scotland isn’t stuffed yet, as we have international law and the principles of justice on our side, as Brexit is simply not compatible with the Common law. The problem we have is the FM appears to consider here judgement superior to international, and the NEC appears incapable of respecting the rule-of-law. Obviously it doesn’t help that Scotland’s judiciary appear to be firm friends of fascism.
It’s more than a pity that the party appears to have been over-run by those who are determined to privilege the legal interests of a tiny minority of the clinically ill, and the sexually deviant, rather that the constitutional rights of ALL Scots. It’s inescapably CRIMINAL, as their approach to the law further separates Scots from their human rights, and subordinates biological women to a second-class legal identity that is open to revision so as to accommodate the will of man. Just like Westminster’s legal approach to Scotland. How very ‘Nazi’ of the party of hope.
Aspirational Principles or Enforceable Rights? The
Future for Socio-Economic Rights in National Law
link to digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu
Well said Andy Ellis @9:13 etc.
@susanXX 3.26pm
Thanks Susan: just trying to get a decent conversation going before the usual deluge of spam from Cameron inevitably clogs up the thread. 🙂
BL
Direct your ire towards the SNP.
We on this site are passionate about independence , we just wish Sturgeon was the same. Are you ever going to wake up to the fact that she is not interested in independence and everything she is doing screams that. Do you really read the revs articles?
But hey speaking as an ex member of the party why don’t you write to Sturgeon and ask when we can expect a referendum, you know the only vehicle leading to indy and let us know the reply.
Don’t comment on here but read WoS…but this just riled me:
“SOG says:
26 September, 2020 at 12:08 pm
brian – do you suggest India as a positive example? Is it possible that you have not read of Partition?”
Partition was the best thing that could have happened – imagine living under Hindu fascists (look up Modi’s record …especially the Gujarat burnings). Kashmiris living under Indian Occupation are killed even if suspected of having eaten beef…(that’s in addition to the disappeared, rapes and mass killings) so thank goodness Pakistanis are not living in that hell-hole of Hindustan. Partition was a disaster because your Mountbatten was determined to give Nehru Kashmir – we do not accept Indian occupation…and never will though we have our fair share of ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
So stop glorifying India when you know nothing about it. And btw, everything impressive in India was built by the Moghuls..Muslims that they demonise but are quite happy to utilise for their biggest tourist attractions.
Anyway, that’s off my chest
At the rate the SNP is going, we might get rid of the Indian occupation before you put a X in a box.
@mcduff
I have no ire whatsoever. Frankly, an independent scotland would be a significant economic competitor for Ireland. So, carry on lads.
My perplexity is on the basis that whatever the good and bad of the SNP, its right now the only political game in town that matters for independence. It could be replaced, but over how long?
Gain independence, then fission and spli into the natural political tribes of an independent nation.
As Franklin said “We must all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”
No accounts. No vote for the colonial admin party.
Andy Ellis says: 26 September, 2020 at 10:42 am
That is a fair question and I didn’t want to answer immediately for the simple reason I need time to actually ask myself why I take the position.
I had supported the full independence position and voted Yes in 2014. I moved to a gradualist position since then for a number of reasons.
It is partly due to the SNP not furthering the argument since then. It isn’t what I mentioned about gaining further political powers but also not pushing forward the notion of a shared national identity in our society to push forward the political argument.
That isn’t hard to do and can be done with existing powers if there was the will. When Alex Salmond took over, he renamed the devolved administration from the Scottish Executive to the Scottish Parliament. It was controversial but now it is grudgingly accepted amongst it’s hard harshest opponents. It created a focus for civic national aspiration and legitimised the political argument that power resided at Holyrood and not given by London.
This could have been since 2014. As mentioned in this forum many times, the NHS could easily have been renamed to for instance the Scottish Health Service. Controversial at the time but given current events it would have been invaluable where the SHS, as a separate entity from the NHS which wasn’t doing as good south of the border, would have been clear in the minds of the Scottish public and furthered the argument. However, nothing was done.
Nobody is denying is independence has been over 50% for a long time but how much of that is due to Boris Johnson and his lot being in charge. I can’t see him lasting long and I can’t see a Gove getting in. What happens if the political situation stabilises south of the border and somebody that resembles a bit of moderation like Sunak gets in charge. Will support for independence continue at current rates?
Mostly though, my position to Gradualism was influenced by the Tories position on Brexit. It was mind numbingly depressing how they were so blinded by Pride, arrogance and lack of self awareness that they are shooting themselves in the foot and destroying the UK both economically and politically just for short term political needs.
If we did become independent, there is no way we can negotiate with a political class with such a mindset. Without the support of the like of the EU behind us or somebody with political cunning and experience like Salmond, they would cripple us economically.
Therefore, I can’t see any other position other than chipping away at London until the tipping point where independence is the natural course to take.
You mentioned about how the Scottish parliament will be usurped by Westminster. That is correct but in doing so, they are not solidifying their power, they are buying off the Scottish population with extra goodies.
Of course the SNP have dropped the ball with furthering independence but they have proved to be excellent administrators and have bettered the lives of ordinary Scots as well as transformed Scotland for the better with the limited powers at their disposal. Even those who don’t support independence see that and if the Parliament was curtailed, we Scots are simply not going back into our box. The genie of self determination has been let of the bottle and can’t be put back in. IMHO, Westminster will have to keep the power devolved, even if it is on their own terms.
In that way, the argument will be who is more efficient in administrating that devolved power and will put continued pressure on Westminster.
There are a lot of assumptions and what if’s in this argument I have made but given the lack of progress in the independence debate unless something changes, it isn’t as bleak as some may thing.
You can appeal the refusal with the office of the information commissioner.
You wont get your result until after November, but you will have an answer you can use next time you make the request i.e. the Commissioner will confirm one way or another if the refusal was lawful.
It seems worth asking…
If the SNP’s accounts are complete and stuck in a queue at the Elec Comm’s offices, might the Party chose to release them, or a summary. Because that might stop adverse rumours. Assuming the details would deny the rumours.
Leaks have occured in the past, we all recall.
Andy Ellis @ 6:42
If Wings had a thumbs up function I’d give you ten for that.
The reason that the labour and Tory as parties have declined so sharply in Scotland is they have all moved over to be the SNP, to fight against independence from the inside, The rest of them are near enough employed as closest possible with ties to 3000 civil servants,
What is happening is the successful division of independent seeking Scottish nation, the breaking up of “Look squirrel” mantra seems to be a successful ploy in taking our eyes of the prize, that the Scottish nation in the main want,
In Scotland we have always said that we want a government, whereby it is close enough to the people that we can hold its feet to the fire,
What stu is doing is good,
But also very bad, as he does not come up with a solution to the end game before any election may or may not take place,
If rotting, by all means call it out,
But that also means that this year, any kind of Scottish leadership would not be there for any independent thinking Scot.
Headless chickens and no further on with independence comes to mind.
If we spend more of our efforts with actual physical writing, emailing, facebooking , Twitter, whatever it takes, to on mass, make a statement that cannot be missed no matter which direction the SNP look, that they have to use the mandate that they have now, to call for independence now, not down the line , but now, say you will not vote for them in the next election if they don’t do it now, hold their feet to the fire.
Do it again and again over weeks, they will get the message, speak as one persistent Scottish independence voice, so it can not be missed.
How many here that sit and moan will actually come out from their sedentary positions and take an active roll in gaining independence this week, Those of us that want independence will look for you on social media’s, to see what names appear, to see how many just like to rant uncontrollable nonsense and how many will put their metaphorical money where their mouths are.
Use all media available, make everyone’s voice be heard,
repeat and repeat, speak up, even lockdown cannot prevent you from being heard if your genuine,