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The Government Payroll

Posted on September 09, 2020 by

The SNP’s official 2019 accounts, which were due to be published today (five weeks late), have not appeared on the Electoral Commission website. We’ve rung the EC and we’re still waiting for someone to get back to us with a reason and/or a new date.

[EDIT 3pm: the EC say they’re “fairly confident” the new date will be 23 September.]

In the meantime, there’s something else of note.

Below is a list of the party’s reportable donations (anything over £500) in 2020.

Out of a total of £964,382 received by the party in the six months from January until June, £783,026 (or 81%) came directly from the British state.

£595,665 (the entries listed as being from the House Of Commons) came in the form of “Short money”, and the rest (which are listed as from the Electoral Commission) is something called the Policy Development Grant, which – like Short money – is paid depending on the number of MPs a party has.

Just two donations to the central party from anyone other than the British state were recorded, both of really weirdly specific sums (£88,622.93 and £92,732.47) and both of roughly £90,000. We’ve been unable to find any verifiable details about the donations or the donors, which is slightly surprising given the amounts involved, although we do know that most large donations to the party in recent years have been from wills.

Nevertheless, the extent to which the SNP is now dependent on British state money should provide some interesting context for the accounts if and when they do show up.

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    1. 09 09 20 12:56

      The Government Payroll | speymouth

    2. 23 09 20 13:30

      Weir’s No Way –

    427 to “The Government Payroll”

    1. Leigh says:

      It’s not just the SNP – I saw this a few months ago. They’ve been paying ALL parties. The question is, what for?

    2. Susan Maclean says:

      I checked Scotland’s people website. A Doreen Gunn, age 75 of Glasgow died in 2018. This may have been a legacy.

    3. Is there any way to compare these figures for when Alex Salmond was in charge?

    4. shiregirl says:

      Nothing from Jim McColl?

    5. Allium says:

      A D J Ferguson died in 2019 – maybe a legacy? And the other individual may have died in 2020, so won’t show up in records yet.

    6. Frank Waring says:

      ‘ Leigh says:
      9 September, 2020 at 12:14 pm

      It’s not just the SNP – I saw this a few months ago. They’ve been paying ALL parties.’

      Please spell this out!

    7. Breastplate says:

      Gosh, the Scottish National Party may be able to change their name to the British National Party soon, oh wait, that one has already been taken.

      What about the Gold Standard Referendum Party or No Wildcat Referendum Party or Beg Boris Party or Fuck The Plebs Party.
      I’m sure there are others.

    8. Tam Fae somewhere says:

      Are the 2 donations of approximately £90k maybe the same amount from someone abroad and the differences are simply different exchange rates – maybe US$100k?

      Purely speculation on my part….

    9. Kenny says:

      Leigh – it’s Short money. It’s designed to let opposition parties pay for policy apparatus that the Government gets from the Civil Service.

      The individual donations look like they might be bequests. The amounts are probably coincidental.

    10. Edward Short says:

      It’s called Short Money and is given to opposition parties so they can pay for things like research.

      Probably worth a Google.

    11. Alan D says:

      In other words, the “british state” is financing its downfall. Nice trick!

    12. Milady says:

      The weird amounts look almost certainly like bequests, but it does make you realise how little the party would have without Westminster money. Almost certainly the Labour party and Lib Dems will be much the same. Loads of TU members in Scotland certainly now opt out of the political levy so Labour won’t be getting as much that way as they used to.

      Sadly only the corrupt Tories still have donors with bottomless pockets.

    13. aLurker says:

      some similar arrangements exist for the Scottish Parliament.

      First two relevant search terms find these:

      Financial Assistance to Non-Government Groups

      Committee Bill on financial assistance for opposition parties

    14. Colin Alexander says:

      Or to put it another way:

      No Union = no SNP: they would be financially bankrupt.

      Also, many who currently cling to the old belief that the SNP are the only “vehicle to deliver independence” would have no need of the SNP, if we were independent.

      It would be a clear open goal for the UK Govt to cut “short money” so pulling the financial rug from under the SNP and other political parties.

      But, the UK Govt understand money buys influence. Or to put it the Scottish way: He who pays the piper, calls the tunes.

      The tune the SNP now plays is Rule Britannia.

    15. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The individual donations look like they might be bequests. The amounts are probably coincidental.”

      Indeed, although it’s weird that they’re also both around the same as the monthly Short money payment. But more to the point, who leaves anyone £88,622.93 in their will rather than, say, a nice round £90,000? Bequests aren’t generally taxable so that doesn’t explain it.

    16. Johnny says:

      It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference, plainly, but isn’t that donation of £5k at the bottom from someone other than the British state, i.e. some company in the constituency that received it?

    17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Is there any way to compare these figures for when Alex Salmond was in charge?”

      Yes, all the party accounts back to 2001 are published on the Electoral Commission website.

    18. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “isn’t that donation of £5k at the bottom from someone other than the British state”

      “donations TO THE CENTRAL PARTY”. That 5K is to a local branch.

    19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It’s called Short Money and is given to opposition parties so they can pay for things like research. Probably worth a Google.”

      I imagine that’s why the fifth paragraph explains exactly where it all came from and provides links explaining what both Short money and Policy Development Grants are, ffs.

    20. Allium says:

      Might be that the remainder of the estate was left to the SNP after some specific sums were paid out to named people/charities. Or that the entire estate was left, and a ragged total was what was available after house sale, liquidised investments, administration, etc.

    21. Willie says:

      The payroll of the British State runs a lot deeper than this list.

      In a key position with let us say an unmanageable banking or credit card loan or a gambling problem. Well no problems says the handler. We can make it go away, just remember who your friends are.

      Or what of the dark secret. An extra marital affair, a penchant for little boys. Exposure could be ruinous but the problem could remain hidden, it doesn’t need to come out. Consider it your payoff, and remember who your friends are.

      Or what of a job on the international stage with one of the big global institutions. George Younger got Secretary General for Nato, plus a title of Lord. Jimmy Saville got a knighthood and an OBE but then again he knew about ring, the magic ring.

      Willie Macrae knew about the magic ring. He got a bullet in his head with no investigation into his untimely and unusual manner of passing.

      And over a hundred years ago one of Ireland’s greatest heroes Charles Stewart Parnell ruined through allegations of marital infidelity. And ditto an Indian independence politician during th3 Indian campaign for independence.

      Ah yes, the payroll, or is payoff, or is it put down of the British State. I think Alex Salmond knows th3 answer to that one. I think we all do.

      Keep safe everyone. There’s more than a virus around.

    22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I checked Scotland’s people website. A Doreen Gunn, age 75 of Glasgow died in 2018. This may have been a legacy.”

      Indeed it may, and I also found a Glasgow-born guy called Donald Ferguson who died last year, but there’s no evidence that either of them were the people in question.

    23. Robert says:

      A bequest might well allocate specific sums to someone, and the residue to the SNP. That residue is unlikely to be a nice round figure. The same applies should someone leave “all” to the SNP.

    24. Willie says:

      And when out of lockdown, and wrenched out of Europe, with our Parliament shredded, and the great paid off, how will we, the rank and file, deal with Direct Rule.

      It’s coming folks. Direct Rule is coming and coming soon.

    25. shiregirl says:

      There is a Prof of Orthodontics/dentistry living in Dubai of the same name. There is money in teeth!

    26. Beaker says:

      Would the weird amounts be due to the proportion of the nett estate to be given? For example, donate one third of the estate. I received part of an estate last year which was done in a similar way, rather than a set amount.

    27. Ottomanboi says:

      To state finance political parties ie short money for a healthy democracy might be added state finance of struggling media. The on-sideness of the latter regarding Scottish independence and indeed the Covid-19 suppression measures is a potent indicator. If it were not state money then it might be donations from the mega humanitarian capitalists of Globalism. They have no ax to grind……
      As Albert Camus wrote:
      “The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.”
      More of that here.
      There will be a reckoning for this crime against humankind.
      That too will be subject to suppression.

    28. Papko says:

      Seems to me the British state has taken out an insurance policy on its own preservation.

      We know that the IRA was completely infiltrated to its highest level prior to the GFA.
      I wonder if theyou have repeated the trick?

    29. Willie says:

      A transfer into the estate of the ingathered funds of a suitable deceased with a friendly solicitor – executor dealing with things and hey presto a gold standard genuine legacy to the party.

      No one surely thinks that dark money to a party or campaign group comes with a label affixed to say that the donation is dark money from the dark state.

      Or is that a pig I see flying past to visit the tooth fairy. There’s a reason for every thing, and there’s a reason why folks say one thing and do another. No political names mentioned.

    30. livionian says:

      If anyone still needs convincing that the SNP are just as big a part of the corrupt political class on a UK level then show them this. Disgraceful stuff. Public money that goes back to political parties for campaigning purposes is stealing. The SNP are thiefs.

    31. livionian says:

      If anyone still needs convincing that the SNP are now just another part of the corrupt political class in this country show them this. Public money that gets redistributed to political parties for campaigning is stealing. The SNP are thief’s.

    32. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Craig Murray’s going from day to day with a sword hanging over his head but is still managing to produce ‘real’ journalism aimed at helping another journalist.

      More power to him.

    33. Bryan Ritchie says:

      Why on a day like today with blatant criminality evident in Westminster are you again trying to disparage the SNP.
      If in 2014 you’d done this some people would have accused you of working for MI6.

    34. Corrado Mella says:

      Many here miss the point: monies paid to political parties by institutions these parties work within is perfectly legitimate and necessary to even the field.

      What is important here, is that a political party that is, by its own constitution, bound to leave such institutions, is financially sustained by those and would collapse financially when leaving them.

      Another clear and unequivocal sign that the SNP is now an hindrance to Scottish Independence.

      And a reason why, after independence, the SNP will collapse and disappear, having exhausted its purpose (BTW, that happened four years ago) and being left with no means to survive.

      This makes even more important that new Scottish political parties are ready to fill the void left by the inevitable collapse above and the retreat of BritNazi Establishment controlled parties.

      Get on with the program, folks.

    35. A2 says:

      “who leaves anyone £88,622.93”

      someone who dosn’t have £90,000

    36. A2 says:

      or has to pay an executor.

    37. Breastplate says:

      Yes, Craig is doing a phenomenal job under disgraceful circumstances. More power to him.

    38. Breastplate says:

      Bryan Ritchie,
      You haven’t been paying attention if you think Westminster’s blatant criminality has only been evident today.
      Wake up and direct your ire elsewhere, there’s a good chap.

    39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Why on a day like today with blatant criminality evident in Westminster are you again trying to disparage the SNP.”

      At the risk of dignifying such a fuckwitted question with a response:

      (1) This is a Scottish independence website.

      (2) It exists to fight the enemies of Scottish independence, whether they be Unionists or closer to home.

      (3) The Westminster goings-on have nothing directly to do with independence, and are being more than adequately covered elsewhere. If you want a site to just remind you every day that the Tories are bad, which the rest of us already know, there’s always Wee Ginger Dug.

      If you don’t like what we write, or if you don’t want to know that the SNP are selling the entire movement down the river, the answer is the same as it’s ever been: I don’t see any chains holding you down, sonny. Feel free to piss off.

    40. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is why Short money is necessary to democratic process, which has been thoroughly corrupted in Brexitania through dark money donated to UKIP and the Tories.

      The role of political party finance reform in the transition from dominant to competitive party systems

    41. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mind you, there’s not much democratic process when the Treasury becomes a tool of political oppression (see 2014 indyref).

    42. Alec Lomax says:

      Corroda Mella ; how’s the other independence party coming along?

    43. James Barr Gardner says:

      I take that in the case of the Labour Party the short money goes to a London address and not split up to all the Devolved Nations. Further proof that SLab are nothing more than a mere branch office.

    44. Fireproofjim says:

      For interest does anyone know if Sinn Fein who never attend Westminster get Short Money?

    45. Albert Herring says:

      “For interest does anyone know if Sinn Fein who never attend Westminster get Short Money?”

      I believe they do. Apparently they also have offices at Westminster. They just don’t sit in the chamber.

    46. Woodside Wullie says:

      They hivtae get dosh fae somewhere tae pay their staffers tae sit aroon on their doups and dae nithin apart fae demanding that loons can spill aroon in quines’’ lavies and spaces and demand that it be a crime if onybody objects. And their NEC is fu o’ these gypes.

      I byde in Aiberdeen. I’ve only got tae look at AIM tae ken fa’ they are.

    47. Liz says:

      THe SNP have become part of the British Establishment, and General Elections are now all about how many MPs they can get. Not to stand up for Scotland, because that isn’t really possible for what is in effect an English parliament, but for the money. Bought for English gold still holds today.

    48. Republicofscotland says:

      It doesn’t look like there’s enough in the pot to fight an indyref, if by chance it occurred. Also like you I’d imagine there’s a plethora of folk waiting to see if the Indyfunds actually exist, that were meant to be ringfenced or if they’ve been spent elsewhere.

      Keep digging on the unknown donors, I’m sure most will want to know where the money came from.

    49. Robert Louis says:

      Whay are SNP MP’s still taking their seats in the HoC, given the Westminster regime is corrupt, roten to the core and the equal of any rogue or dysfunctional state.

      Iain Blackford moans about London stealing yet more powers from Scotland, but is not prepared to act. The SNP MP’s should leave and refuse to return until democratic government and a respect for the law and devolution returns. So, my message to Iain Blackford and his SNP seat warming chums in London, is simply this, carpe diem, sieze the day, this is the time to walk out permanently.

      It really is hard to take Iain seriously now.

      But of course, as we all know, they won’t. But hey, the SNP will say, ‘vote SNP in May 2021, and we really, really really promise this time that we will really start to think about indyref, by the end of the fourth year in power, probably. Honest.’

    50. Republicofscotland says:

      Short Money, and Policy Development Grant are both ways of keeping a political party dependent on the British state for funds. It kind of defeats the purpose.

    51. Breeks says:

      Bryan Ritchie says:
      9 September, 2020 at 1:49 pm
      Why on a day like today with blatant criminality evident in Westminster are you again trying to disparage the SNP…

      Maybe because Nicola Sturgeon has already told us she intends doing nothing to address Westminster’s criminality before next May at the earliest, and considering Scotland’s Criminal and unconstitutional subjugation is nearly finalised and isn’t being addressed at all, plus the imminent deregulation heading in Scotland’s direction after December, some people don’t think Sturgeon’s response is remotely adequate or worthy, nor is it anywhere near urgent enough.

      Why shouldn’t we be disparaging about such feckless and inept leadership? We are being taken for mugs after all, and Scotland’s interests abandoned to Westminster’s colonial opportunism.

    52. Big Jock says:

      It’s all explained in here below.

      Sinn Fein refuse to swear allegiance to the crown, therefore they don’t qualify. The only way the SNP would not qualify was if they refused to swear allegiance. Perhaps explains the SNP stance on the Royal Family pre independence.

      It might explain why the SNP won’t move their MPs to Holyrood. It’s all about money!

    53. Robert Graham says:

      Lizg I replied to you on the previous thread re the flags,
      The clip I referred to was last night on Indy Live. Titled ” The People are Sovereign A Trial ” it’s from Mark Hurst @ 1:50 in a 2 hr clip and gives a bit more detail , anyway thanks for the effort .

    54. frogesque says:


      Possibly €100.000?

    55. callmedave says:

      Here is a link to ‘short’ money history and the amounts each party received in the last two elections.

      Source HoC Library.

      Scroll down the page to the heading ‘short money’.

    56. Republicofscotland says:

      “Frogesque says:
      9 September, 2020 at 2:41 pm

      Possibly €100.000?”

      Don’t you mean nearer a million Euros for £964,382?

    57. iain mhor says:

      It’s always been a bit of a headscratcher, the tiny number of large donations to the SNP.
      They have membership, they have votes, they have tacit support outwith the party itself for Independence (pfff) yet still very few large donations.

      The conclusion was, that there is no money in Scotland which believes investing in (potential) independence, is an investment for growth. Not even reciprocal benefit from *ahem ‘influencing’ the devolved government, is worth investing in the SNP.

      They must be squeaky clean then, if no lobbyists, or donors money sways them to perhaps ‘look favourably’ on the donor a-la the Tory MO. Donors can’t have faith the SNP or anyone in their government can ‘lever’ business opportunities for them.

      There is no shortage of business (or private) money floating about parties South of the Border. Very odd, I always thought – a lottery winner was about all that the SNP managed. So that’s a fitting metaphor for the chances of both achieving Independence and for the current SNP having any hand in it – we’re as well waiting on our numbers stoating up.

      *Dons tinfoil hat – it’s actually because the SNP are a construct of the state and have always been a potemkin party and every potential large investor who needs to know, knows and those who don’t know, are swiftly informed, so they do know; excepting leaving one or two, large token donations, in order to maintain the facade – with the loss of the lottery money, the shortfall is being made up by transfer of short money from another hidden potemkin party, existing within the state for the purposes of laundering money just for such covert ops and maintaining the ruse that influential donors exist at all – aaand breathe into paper bag.

      **takes hat off, naaah…c’mon iain get a grip, go for a lie down.
      ***Apologies to the Weirs for the satire.

    58. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Keep digging on the unknown donors, I’m sure most will want to know where the money came from.”

      I doubt there’s anything suspicious in that regard, most likely just bequests. The story here is that the SNP is stony broke and cannot afford to do without UK state aid. (And also that it has very likely pissed away the “ring-fenced” indy campaign money.)

    59. kapelmeister says:

      Bryan Ritchie @1:49 pm

      “If in 2014 you’d done this some people would have accused you of working for MI6.”

      For a start, you meant MI5 and not 6.

      There was no call for Stu or any of us to disparage the SNP in 2014 since Sturgeon had yet to take over and ruin things.

    60. Garrion says:

      @Iain. The fact that there’s even a shred of possible truth in your post is indication of the fun times we live in. Jeezo.

    61. kapelmeister says:

      How much money has Peter Murrell been paid by the SNP in 21 years as Chief Exec? £3 million probably isn’t a wild estimate. You could fight an indyref with that much.

    62. Willie says:

      Maybe someone should ask the SNP about the sources of the political donations.

      Maybe Nicola Sturgeon or her husband would then care to enlighten. It’s a simple, open and transparent question. Who gave the money, why was it given, what was it for, and maybe, just maybe, where did it go.

    63. Stu hutch says:

      Dont all political partys at westminster recieve this short money I’m assuming it is calculated by number of mps voted in.are we saying the snp should not take this money ?.the torys get money from Big business and billionaires labour get money from trade you have just proved the snp dont have big donors to give them millions.we all know that will be why the snp coffers are pretty bare.nothing hold the front page about fact I’m sure there would be a bigger outcry if the snp were swimming in who is bankrolling the said this is an independence site and what is going on at Westminster has nothing to do with independence.are we seeing the the unionist mask slipping here ?. What is happening down Westminster has everything to do with using your own rhetoric stu.are you receiving funds from Westminster?

    64. Willie says:

      Ah Kappelmeister you pose an interesting question as to how much the FM’s husband has been paid over the years as the CEO.

      £3m you postulate. And if so, where did it come from. Mnnn?

    65. frogesque says:

      ROS yeah, nearer €1.000.000, a lot of dosh!?

    66. Willie says:

      Ah Kappelmeister her3 is @ question for you.

      Why is it that husband or wife teams, or partners in relationships feature highly in both partners having high profile and in many ways inter related jobs.

      Starting with the First Minister her husband is the chief executive of the party that she leads. Next, and I only realised this last week from a press piece but the retiring health minister Jeanne Freeman’s partner Susan was the head of the Scottish Government media unit.

      And then there is Angus Robertson whose new wife Jennifer ( nee Demodie ) was a SPAD working in Bute House and allegedly embroiled in the sexual harassment fiasco.

      The inter relationship of can we say power couple within the SNP coterie of control seem strong. But is it healthy. Does it feed democratic process.

      What think you Kapplemeister.

    67. Steven Clare says:

      I’m going to leave the SNP £8,904.32 and a half p, three guineas and a hamster just to befuddle you!

      In the name of Wings Over Maryhill of course 😉

    68. Sarah says:

      @ Rev, I think you are having a bit of fun here – and why not, you deserve it!

      These figures, as you say right at the top, are of donations greater than £500 – not many people donate that kind of sum. But with circa 100,000 members – say the annual fee is £5 then that is £500,000 from the members alone.

    69. Big Jock says:

      You do have to ask yourself.

      Where is Andy Murray, Sean Connery, Brian Cox etc.

      Where are Scotland’s richest indy supporters hiding all their cash?

    70. Big Jock says:

      I am going to leave the SNP my membership card if they don’t stop the colonisation of my country.

      Why is Nicola spending all her time giving daily briefings on Covid. Deflection strategy!

    71. kapelmeister says:

      Willie @3:28 pm

      Yes Willie, it’s all very cosy in the SNP & SG higher echelons.

    72. Andrew F says:

      The other thing to remember with bequests is that most wills are written many years in advance of the death.

      And as others have noted, a ‘residual’ will not be a round figure.

      So it’s most likely that even the two bequest-like amounts were from people who made the decision to leave money to the SNP many years ago. Hopefully they are not rolling in their graves too much.

    73. G H Graham says:

      £88,622.93 is what’s left out of £90k after getting a new expresso machine for Bute House.

      Just sayin.

    74. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Got a callback from the Electoral Commission. Accounts pushed back for two more weeks. Article has been edited.

    75. Harry mcaye says:

      As you say Stu, I suspect the £481,000 “ring-fenced” for Indy campaign had been pissed away. Over £100 of that is mine. I won’t be fooled again.

      On the weird amounts left by the two individuals, yes, almost certainly bequests. I recently made a will and decided on percentages mostly, rather than specific amounts. So some animal charities and sanctuaries will probably receive some weird amounts from me when I peg it!

    76. stonefree says:

      @ kapelmeister at 3:15 pm

      Murrell got £100,000 when he replace Russell in 1999 per annum,, there was information about 6 months ago that he was getting 150K for about 6 years, what he gets is not now published, Googling about most is not stated save for some saying he has £6 million

      @ Willie at 3:16 pm

      “just maybe, where did it go.” That would be the better question especially the Yes,Scot money.
      I wonder about the late Colin Weir’s money, and stopping the funding the SNP
      If the Yes money was acquired by suspicious methods, the SNP has a serious problem
      The comment about “the EC say they’re “fairly confident” the new date will be 23 September.”
      Is “questionable” to say the least, I believe something is not right within the SNP
      If the SNP was a Ltd or Plc then I would have more confidence in the time table

    77. Ruaridh says:

      Unless you can provide evidence that the money taken from short money was spent significantly on expenses outwith the purview of Westminster-related operations of the SNP (staffers, etc.) this strikes me as fundamentally baseless innuendo that is just a cheap jibe at the SNP from someone who seems to be increasingly desperately trying to throw any mud that will stick at the SNP. Is this really a story of interest to anyone? All parties in parliament use short money.

      The SNP gets a lot of short money because it has a lot of MPs, so now has a larger Westminster operation than it did (and more staffers, correspondingly). This shouldn’t be news to anyone who pays attention. Trying to infer the SNP is now a short money laundering machine is very peculiar indeed if your genuine focus is campaigning for independence. What’s your point, caller?

    78. Republicofscotland says:

      Just read that Donald Trump has been nominated for the 2021 Nobel Peace Prize, if he wins it, it will go down in history as an infamous win, as bad as that as Obama or Kissinger awards.

    79. Willie says:

      First question to the Prime Minister briefing today was a Jamie from Ayrshire.

      And even though the question related to a Scottish government matter the OM said he would look in to it.

      Who needs the Scottish Parliament. Time it was gone, soon it will.

    80. Muscleguy says:

      @Rev Stu
      The odd amounts could be residuals from a will. Of the form Fred X, Jane Y & everything left to the SNP. Which will of course be minus the lawyers’ fee. If I was doing a donation in a will that is how I would structure it, unless there were other specific sums to other charities etc. But there will almost always be residuals.

    81. Willie says:

      Another pearl from Johnson’s briefing today is the spectre of mass population movement control.

      Border Agency stepping up movement controls. Testing by the millions daily to be introduced to identify who can travel, enter premises, or have to stay confined to home.

      Orwellian, you bet. And all backed up by the rule of law.

    82. Gary says:

      This is normal practice. You have to have over a certain amount of MPs to qualify for this so it’s a relatively new thing for the SNP to be in receipt of it but it’s been ongoing for other parties since forever ago. The LibDems are feeling the loss of theirs, that’s for sure.

    83. callmedave says:

      Moonshot testing vaccination for 24hrs to allow a free pass to events? = Jam tomorrow (Springtime).

      Nice graphs though.

      Pretty hard line for folk darn Sarf to swallow, no mention of what the fines will be.

      Boris’ last throw of the dice to avoid National (England) lockdown.

    84. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Unless you can provide evidence that the money taken from short money was spent significantly on expenses outwith the purview of Westminster-related operations of the SNP (staffers, etc.) this strikes me as fundamentally baseless innuendo that is just a cheap jibe at the SNP from someone who seems to be increasingly desperately trying to throw any mud that will stick at the SNP. Is this really a story of interest to anyone? All parties in parliament use short money.

      The SNP gets a lot of short money because it has a lot of MPs, so now has a larger Westminster operation than it did (and more staffers, correspondingly). This shouldn’t be news to anyone who pays attention. Trying to infer the SNP is now a short money laundering machine is very peculiar indeed if your genuine focus is campaigning for independence. What’s your point, caller?”

      What an extraordinarily dim-witted, completely point-missing response. The point is that the SNP is dependent on UK state aid to stay afloat. The party is skint and no living person wants to donate money to it any more. That’s why it’s desperately scrabbling around for pennies anywhere it can find them: sending out embarrassing plastic piggy banks, clawing back the 25% branch allowance, asking people to pay their subs early and – I think we’re about to discover – pissing away all the “ring-fenced” indy campaign money on paying the likes of Peter Murrell huge salaries nobody is allowed to know anything about.

    85. Beaker says:

      @Robert Louis says:
      9 September, 2020 at 2:32 pm
      “Why are SNP MP’s still taking their seats in the HoC, given the Westminster regime is corrupt, rotten to the core and the equal of any rogue or dysfunctional state.”

      Thinking out loud, if they decided to copy Sinn Fein, I’d bet that the unionist vote would petition for recall. Only needs 10% of registered voters. The only circumstances which would apply for a recall would be if an MP is suspended by the Committee on Standards. I would imagine that would be an easy fix as they would not be seen to fulfil their obligations as an elected MP.

      In those circumstances, getting 10% of voters would be a piece of piss, and that would trigger a by-election.

    86. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell 5.24pm
      Great response, my best chuckle of the day and spot on to boot.

    87. Fireproofjim says:
      9 September, 2020 at 2:13 pm
      `For interest does anyone know if Sinn Fein who never attend Westminster get Short Money?`

      no, they get Representative Money much to the vexation of the DUP.

    88. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Trump should be finished. BOB WOODWARD BOOK reveals tapes recordings with TRump
      Admitting covid was bad ! 5 times worse than your worst flu.

      He lied to American people and the world.

      That stupid blond bimbo trying now to defend him, madness.

    89. Bob Mack says:

      It a a bit like asking the criminals your chasing to have whip round to buy new police cars for your police force.


    90. G H Graham says:

      For the hard of thinking:

      1. The SNP is now dependent on British handouts to survive.

      2. The money ringfenced for IndyRef 2 may have already been pissed away.

      3. The SNP, previously keen to gloat, now seem unwilling to share their membership & their income from it.

      4. You should ask where all the money was spent. Clue: the Gender Woo-Woo Club, Pete Murrell, extremist charities & fanatic quangos.


      The SNP is effectively an embedded British political party in Holyrood that is increasingly secretive, devious, arrogant & self serving. It is now the primary obstacle to independence.

    91. terence callachan says:

      Shock shock horror
      Political party receives money from government

      BUT…Hang on a minute
      DONT …All the party,s get money from the government

      YES they do

      So I guess your point is shock shock horror is , you want the SNP to send the money back

      But hang on , isn’t that what you criticised Labour about
      YES of course it is

      Tell you what…..why don’t you just wait for the actual accounts

    92. Skip_NC says:

      The question that must be asked, and answered, in due course is why the accounts are late. Change in auditors? Change in auditing staff? Change in SNP staff handling the audit from their end? Those are all legitimate reasons for an occasional delay in filing and apply equally to for-profit businesses. However, a political party (or a publicly-traded business) requires more transparency and I should hope that an explanation for the delay would be forthcoming as soon as the accounts are filed.

    93. Bob Mack says:

      Are the SNP not always telling us we don’t need Westminster money to survive? Mmmm!!

    94. Mark says:

      That must be the worst political slogans of all time F off if you don’t agree with me. Thank I’d vote for a party that came up with that slogan. You could imagine all the MSP sitting in Parliament with the arms folded growling.

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      The rule-of-law is as much a tool of social emancipation, as it is a tool of social oppression. It all rests on how the law is interpreted, and whether the interpretation is coherent with the legal doctrine of “proportionality”.

      A Law Professor’s Guide to Natural Law and Natural Rights

    96. Al-Stuart says:

      Excellent article and Stuart, you are a top man for publishing what ALL Scots should know about…

      That the Sturgeonite and Murrell SNP have sold Independence down the river for their personal gain: money and self-aggrandisement.

      Stuart, I think I know where you are going with this. In polis circles the expressions: “follow the money” and: “Cui Bono”. On this thread, both come to mind.

      It was inexorable that the British State had to eventually allow a “house cleaning” of the political and powerful that started in 2009.

      Here, on this Wings Over Scotland site and on this thread, all you need do is replace the name: “Heather Brooke” with “Stuart Campbell”.

      Heather Brooke worked away at her Freedom of Information requests and persisted. She followed the money. The result of Heather Brooke’s FOI request and perseverance…

      House of Commons Speaker Michael Martin: Resigned.

      Home Secretary Jacqui Smith: Resigned.

      Secretary of State for Local Government Hazel Blears: Resigned.

      Secretary of State for Transport Geoff Hoon: Resigned.

      Chief Secretary to the Treasury David Laws: Resigned.

      Secretary to the exchequer and Treasury Kitty Ussher: Resigned.

      Minister for Employment Tony McNulty: Resigned.

      David Chaytor MP: Convicted and sent to prison.

      Jim Devine MP: Convicted and sent to prison.

      Eric Illsley MP: Convicted and sent to prison.

      Dr Dennis McShane MP: Convicted and sent to prison.

      Elliot Morley Privy Council Member and MP: Convicted and sent to prison.

      Lord Hanningfield, Baron of Chelmsford. Convicted and sent to prison.

      Lord Taylor of Warwick QC: Convicted and sent to prison.

      The MSM and press are giving Nicola Sturgeon a VERY EASY life compared to their hostility inflicted upon Alex Salmond when he was first minister.

      BUT at some point very soon, Sturgeon and Murrell look highly likely to face some difficult questions. Ironically NOT about the GRA or the Orwellian Hate Crime Bill and Sturgeon’s fingerprints on the weapons that sought to politically kill off her opponents (jail if needs required).

      No, Sturgeon’s political end will be swift and deservedly brutal. She played with matches. She started the fire. We are lucky she has failed to burn down IndyRef.

      Her perfume is all over the gerrymandered efforts to get rid of Alex Salmond. As First Minister she is legally the “directing mind”. It was undeniably on her watch that the police were brought in and prosecuted Alex Salmond.

      Oh stultus discipulus.

      To even think about doing away with your mentor. Especially when his IQ and wiley abilities outrank and outflank yours so heavily is hubris personified. That may be Sturgeon’s political epitaph.

      I think Alex Salmond should now consider obtaining a court order to release the paper trail of evidence at ScotGov., and shine the light of disinfectant upon Sturgeon’s SNP to start the proper inquiry into the Murrells’ corruption of the SNP. Nicola’s sepsis is both political and now it seems financial.

      How about it Alex?

      Oops, he already did..


      Stuart, you literally are: “on the money”.

      The British State was bruised by the Parliamentary Expenses Scandal more than anything since World War 2 and 17th August 1947 (Inependece of India).

      Sturgeon’s high-jacking of the real SNP, the true Indy political party is almost at an end.

      I don’t think Sturgeon will be led away by Police Scotland in handcuffs for allegedly committing fraud etc., by raising “ring fenced” IndyRef money and falsely accounting it in the direction of her pet political McWokeists.

      But then again, I NEVER thought I could witness Alex Salmond being put on trial where a custodial sentence hung over his head.

      The difference with this obscure thread on Wings Over Scotland is I believe it to be the catalyst for the end of the toxic McWokeist Sturgeonite tenure as First Minister.

      Thank goodness and well done Mr Campbell.

    97. Tannadice Boy says:

      So what is going to happen if the SNP spent the ring fenced money on the general election of 2017?. The SNP pulled down the Independence Referendum site when almost half of the 1 million was raised?. What happened to the money?. From my viewpoint I just want the time back I spent posting leaflets through letterboxes. I will never do that again. And it is actually quite difficult posting leaflets. Got chased by a lot of dogs. A wee bonus I suppose is that I lost weight.

    98. mike cassidy says:

      From May 2018

      Show us the money! SNP fails to get any donations

    99. ElGordo says:

      A delay of up to 2 months to post 2019 financial accounts was introduced due to covid

    100. Ronald Fraser says:

      I wonder who is to blame for the drop in membership numbers?

      I wonder who is to blame for the drop in donations?

      Whoever is to blame surely has to loss their job with immediate effect.

      If this was a private business, the culprit who caused this catastrophic drop in revenue would have been sacked on the spot.

      If only we could pinpoint the culprit.

      Any suggestions folk?

    101. cynicalHighlander says:


    102. lumilumi says:

      Rather than speculate about the weird sums of the two individual donations (probably bequests), the point is rather…

      Where the f are individual donations above £500?!? Why aren’t there any?!? Do people repeatedly donate £499 within the specified timeframe to avoid their name showing up on record? If so, why?

      Why aren’t there any individual donations in the, say, £500-£1500 bracket? – not beyond the means of a middle class couple intent on Scottish independence. If they think the SNP is the best vechicle for achieving that goal.

      Why no donations in the £5000-£10,000 bracket? Are there no wealthy supporters of the SNP? Are there no wealthy supporters of Scottish independence, or are they saving their donations for an independence referendum campaign?

      As I understand it, the SNP survived for decades on a shoestring budget, mostly on membership fees, the occassional donations/bequests and some pennies from the British state.

      Reinstating the Scottish Parliament in 1999 probably brought the SNP some much-needed cash as they’ve always done well in the Holyrood elections, from the start. Electoral success in Holyrood was followed by electoral success in Westminster – becoming the 3rd largest party (short money!) and here we are.

      Maybe the SNP’s coffers are overflowing with membership fees and small donations… But they’ve been awfully quiet about membership numbers for a couple of years now.

      Remember back when the SNP would eagerly announce their 100,000th member, their 125,000th member etc. It’s gone awfully quiet on that front in the past couple of years.

      Could it actually be that the SNP’s membership is falling, donations are falling… So the big SNP party machinery depends on British state money to survive?

      Oh, the irony! The Scottish National Party becoming too wee, too poor and too stupid to survive without the benevolent help of the British State! (I’d emphasise the “too stupid” bit.)

      The desire for Scottish independence is growing and is bigger than any one party. If one vehicle fails within sight of the goal, a new vehicle must be built.

    103. Ronald Fraser says:

      Peter Murrell and Nicola Sturgeon look like a creepy pair of weirdos.

      There is definitely something not right about them.

      Can you imagine Nicky and Pete “gettin it on”???

      No,,,me neither.

      Something very strange going on in that relationship.

      A bit of a “brother marries sister” kinda thing.

      Ooh yuk,,,nooooooo!!!

    104. Willie says:

      The Pass Laws and mandatory tracking bracelet are on their way.

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ronald Fraser
      Now you’re just being an arsehole. Your hostility is pinned to your vest dude, and it’s hard to see you as being on the level.

    106. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Ronald Fraser 7.21
      Your points in this post are valid. Count me as one of the lost members. I too wonder about the general membership and revenue situation. However I agree with Cam B with respect to your post of 7.28. No need to personalise the debate.

    107. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ronald Fraser
      Never make it personal if you want you political opinion to be taken seriously.

      The Future of Free Speech, Trolls, Anonymity and Fake News Online

      Many experts fear uncivil and manipulative behaviors on the internet will persist – and may get worse. This will lead to a splintering of social media into AI-patrolled and regulated ‘safe spaces’ separated from free-for-all zones. Some worry this will hurt the open exchange of ideas and compromise privacy

    108. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘Grassroots actvists must take the lead – no one else is doing so – and preparations must begin.’

      Why did Mr MacAskill MP say that last Sunday? Has the SNP leader abdicated or merely delegated?

      Nicola Sturgeon is an MSP with responsibilities to Parliament and her Constituency. She is First Minister of Scotland and Leader of the SNP.

      As First Minister and head of the Scottish Government, she ‘… is responsible for the overall development, implementation and presentation of the administration’s policies and for promoting and representing Scotland at home and overseas.’ The First Minister is bound by the Scotland Act with its well known limitations which put her in a position permanently subservient to Westminster. Nevertheless the extent of her position and its large salary suggests that a full time commitment is expected.

      Ms Sturgeon as Leader of the SNP – ‘(a) sets the political direction of the Party; (b) leads election and other campaigns; (c) approves manifestos for parliamentary elections; (d) articulates the argument for an independent Scotland; and (e) is Leader of the Scottish Parliamentary Group if a member of the Scottish Parliament.’

      As Leader and a National Office Bearer, she is a member of the National Executive Committee which, among other things, is responsible for the ’strategic management and political direction of the Party’ and ‘ownership of the Party’s assets and management of the Party’s financial affairs’.

      The SNP is a political party with over 100,000 members, including its Leader. Its Constitution states that the ‘aims of the Party are (a) Independence for Scotland; … and (b) the furtherance of all Scottish interests.’

      The SNP Code of Conduct for Members requires every member to abide by its constitutionally laid down policy and direction and its Constitution, Rules and Standing Orders.

      The political direction of the SNP is difficult to ascertain. There’s no obvious ideology. Despite the constitutional requirement it doesn’t look like independence is in its sights. I can’t remember the last time I heard Ms Sturgeon articulate the argument for an independent Scotland let alone describe how she sees its development. There’s no vision, no road map, no direction, no communication and no drive. In fact, no leadership. How will we answer the big questions? What currency will be used in an independent Scotland? What will an independent Scotland be like? Will it have a written constitution? Will we rejoin the EU? Who will inspire the grassroots? There are many more.

      I don’t believe it’s possible to be First Minister of Scotland and a credible Leader of the SNP. As well as being too much for one person the two roles conflict and are not compatible.

      If Holyrood takes precedence and the burden of other work is too onerous has the leadership of the SNP been delegated? If that’s the case who is running the political wing of the SNP?

      Would a First Minister who tolerates malicious prosecutors in her country’s justice system worry about the finer details of her party’s constitution?

      Breaking up a three hundred year old union while depending on its subsidy will need at the very least, enthusiasm, commitment, dynamism, integrity, stamina, hard work and fresh thinking.

      Time for a leadership challenge?

    109. leither says:

      scraping the bottom of a very shallow barrel.

    110. Papko says:

      lumilumi says:

      “Where the f are individual donations above £500?!? Why aren’t there any?!? Do people repeatedly donate £499 within the specified timeframe to avoid their name showing up on record? If so, why?

      Why aren’t there any individual donations in the, say, £500-£1500 bracket? – not beyond the means of a middle class couple intent on Scottish independence.”

      It takes a Detective from Finland to get to the bottom of it.

    111. dakk says:

      In the time of Covid there are sadly going to be a few more than just the SNP who require sustenance from a currency issuer.

    112. robertknight says:

      If someone divides their estate between multiple benefactors, and the total net worth of the estate is likely to vary, the individual may elect to allocate a percentage of that estate to specific named benefactors, as opposed to a specific amount of a sum which may itself vary in value depending upon stocks, shares, currency, taxation, etc. etc.

      The figures quoted are therefore likely to be a % of the individual estate concerned, which would account for the breakdown into pence.

      Nothing sinister in that.

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      Certainly not as sinister as the Hate Crime bill.

      Human Dignity and Bioethics: Essays Commissioned by the President’s Council on Bioethics

      The President’s Council on Bioethics
      Washington, D.C.
      March 2008

      Part 3: Dignity and Modern Culture
      Chapter 9: Human Dignity and Public Discourse

    114. stonefree says:

      @ Tannadice Boy at 6:52 pm

      I ask the amount about ten days ago,
      The figure and it only appears as far as I can find is a BBC article the rest seem to have vanished
      The Figure was £482,000
      Interesting this article which was in the BBC link, but it’s not the original
      Note what Kenny MacAskill say towards the end about Murrell
      at that point AS was still in the SNP

    115. Fireproofjim says:

      Ronald Fraser
      The dirty wee boy argument has no place here

    116. stonefree says:

      Sorry for making an erse of the post

      Also the money raised in 2019-20 is no where to be found

    117. Tannadice Boy says:

      @stonefree 8.39
      The money is very important but I feel the loss of volunteers is critical as well. Huge efforts by ordinary folk like myself during Indy and elections has been lost. And that sort of effort is worth it’s weight in gold.

    118. Geoff Bush says:

      Looking at the party’s total monthly income for a minute, surely the £80-90k per month is small compared to membership subscriptions ? 100,000 plus members paying a minimum of £5-6 per month adds up to about £500k per month. Once we are out of Westminster, the Short money will stop, but so will the expenditure associated with being in Westminster – so the SNP is not dependent on Short money by my reckoning (OK I dont have the exact numbers) so it is just not valid to depict the party as dependent on being in Westminster.

    119. John Digsby says:

      @Geoff Bush

      Expenses of being at Westminster are covered separately to Short Money through IPSO. So office, staff and travel expenses are covered off at the MP level rather than via Short Money which is party-level

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      Geoff Bush
      This is an oversimplification, but Short money enables a level playing field between the state and non-state interests. All other things being equal, of course. So I’m afraid we are dependent on a party that is dependent on Westminster, and that’s why it looks like we can only really depend on ourselves.

    121. Contrary says:

      Stonefree @ 8.39pm

      Thanks for that link – we’ve had so many GEs over the past few years I forget when they were – can anyone tell me what month the GE was in 2017?

      2017 was when Alex Salmond lost his seat wasn’t it?

      2017 was when the Scottish government revised their harassment procedure.

      Imagine if Alex Salmond hadn’t lost his seat and was still in the SNP – the scandal of a harassment case (made public) would have lost him his seat and tarred his name etc, and the civil service/Scottish government would have been in full control to allow anything to be made up, and leaked.

      It’s not that interesting I suppose – just wondering if scotgov got a bit caught our by him losing his seat so had to take it to criminal procedings to try and make the mud stick. I’m not sure of the rules – but maybe Alex wouldn’t have been able to take that case to judicial review if he was still an MP?

      2017 was when they closed the fundraiser for indyref without notice, after the 2017 election,,, oh. After Alex lost his seat.

      And now the SNP prefer to be skint rather than develop policies, e.g. Independence, more favourable to its supporters. Well, we don’t know they are skint yet, but it ain’t looking good so far.

    122. Stoker says:

      Bryan Ritchie says on 9 September, 2020 at 1:49 pm:

      “Why on a day like today with blatant criminality evident in Westminster are you again trying to disparage the SNP.”

      I see you’ve had adequate responses from several folk already including The Rev himself but I’d like to throw my tuppence worth in with a serious question. Do you not think it’s important to expose the missing “war chest” aka the “ring-fenced” fighting fund? Which was a small fortune, can’t remember how much but missing nonetheless.

    123. Colin Alexander says:

      MSPs vote down bid to scrap hate crime bill

      Debate can be found here:

      Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill debate is about 1/4 of the way down.

    124. Elmac says:

      So Murrell says NS did not tell him about the AS situation. Does he think our heads button up the back? As the saying goes, sometimes it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

      As I have said on here a few times already, if you want to be rid of the cancer in the SNP then cut up your membership cards and cut off the subscriptions. By all means tell them when you do so that normal service might be resumed when they clean out their stable.

    125. Stan Broadwood says:

      Excellent post Rev

      If WE don’t ask the awkward questions, no one else will.

      Wings and it’s contributors have the skills to get to the bottom of any wrong doings that the SNP hierarchy are up to.

      Leaving no stone unturned.

    126. Stoker says:

      Rev wrote:

      “I think we’re about to discover – pissing away all the “ring-fenced” indy campaign money on paying the likes of Peter Murrell huge salaries nobody is allowed to know anything about.”

      I believe Murrell has a lot to answer for, especially his salary which I’ve no idea how the snp justifies it. I think it was somewhere on here recently (btl) or it may have been Twatter that someone said he’s getting somewhere in the region of 4 times the amount his predecessor got, well over 100K.

      For doing what exactly? Delaying indy so he can focus on covering his own arse in the Salmond set-up? Let’s put it this way I will not be surprised if somewhere down the line we learn he’s responsible for a lot of the snp self-destruction, deeply involved in the Salmond scandal & the delaying of indy.

    127. Stan Broadwood says:


      Love your forensic work.

      Keep up the good work.

    128. Stan Broadwood says:

      Can I ask Mrs Murrell a really awkward question???

      What exactly is it that your “husband” does at SNP HQ/Bute House???

      Does he keep the house tidy and get the dinner ready for you coming back from your Covid19 updates???

      Does he polish and hoover the place, keeping it clean in case Mrs Evans drops round for drinkypoos???

      He has to be the most expensive housekeeper in the UK.

    129. Dan says:

      More info about Blockchain over on Business for Scotland.
      This paragraph is of note for when you can no longer rely on governments…

      There will also be one further master copy of the data retained, if required for the specific purpose of directly exercising Scotland’s United Nations rights to self-determination, over and above any remit of the Scottish Government. In other words, if Westminster removes the powers of the Scottish Government to the point where a Declaration of Independence cannot be made, the citizens themselves can take that action.

    130. McDuff says:

      I,like many others cancelled my membership so I`m wondering what the membership totals now.

    131. Joe says:

      Hate Crime bill.

      Or in other words the tactical placement of laws to make it risky for the ordinary (heterosexual, white and non-religious/Christian) folk to speak out against the massive changes that are to be imposed on us and our society by a joke toy parliament aligned to international groups and financiers with a goal of using ‘minority rights’ as a weapon against decent ordinary people.

      If in doubt watch how these people have used such concepts recently for political goals and just how totally blatantly against the interests of ordinary people this is when you consider GRA (which is the tip of the iceberg. What happens when adults are allowed to openly express their sexual attraction to children?)

      This is more important to understand than any SNP ‘mandate for indy’.

      Anyway, don’t want to interrupt or get into any bad habits like interacting with Wingers. But people need to be quicker at opposing this than they did on waking up to the SNP in general (well done by the way, about time) or one day soon you will wake up in a country you won’t want to live in.

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Can I ask Mrs Murrell a really awkward question??? ……”

      A lot more light would be shed by debate btl, if folk were alert to, and intolerant of, misogynistic discourse.

      Gender, discourse and the public sphere

    133. Hatuey says:

      If Scotland and England were African countries and we were assessing their political relations, we wouldn’t hesitate in assuming the big country was pulling the strings of politicians in the smaller country.

      Here’s another way of looking at it; from the perspective of the British State, Sturgeon is playing a blinder for them. She’s keeping the rabble in line, effectively blocking progress in a direction they don’t want, and, crucially, she’s divisive (i.e., dividing the Scottish Independence movement).

      Fast forward a few years and imagine her sitting there in interviews talking excitedly about all the successes she achieved in elections, etc. By then this whole idea may well be dead and buried.

      It’s painful to think of the opportunities we have lost with her at the helm.

      I used to dream of independence. Now I only dream of her demise.

    134. stonefree says:

      @ Tannadice Boy says:
      9 September, 2020 at 8:59 pm

      The money is important in two ways, Where did it go?
      But was it raise the question of Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception , well that would be the title in England , In scotland the Fraud act or the Theft act apply
      I admit it has been years since I read the acts

      Sturgeon has actively driven away the core of of the SNP, and substituted the wokist trash
      Someone forward this to me
      Margo MacDonald 1977 , dishing out a statement ,
      and now consider Smith’s lot. Margo was probably younger than the wokies
      But Sturgeon controls the YSNP, fully
      Both the wokies and Sturgeon are delusional, in my opinion, they actually believe they are better than everyone else

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Remember, I’m not stroking my ego, I’m rising to the moment. 🙂

      Gender and Language, Vol 1, No 2 (2007)
      Speaking out: The female voice in public contexts.
      Edited by Judith Baxter.
      Basingstoke, England; New York: Palgrave Macmillan,
      2006. pp. 256.

      Opens as a pdf.

    136. ben madigan says:

      @Beaker and @Robert Louis who asked:

      “Why are SNP MP’s still taking their seats in the HoC, given the Westminster regime is corrupt, rotten to the core and the equal of any rogue or dysfunctional state.”

      Because unlike Sinn Fein they weren’t elected on an abstentionist ticket. For SNP MPs not to take their seats, abstentionism would need to be an SNP policy.

    137. stonefree says:

      @ Contrary at 9:25 pm

      2017 was when Alex Salmond lost his seat wasn’t it?
      2017 was when the Scottish government revised their harassment procedure. …again Yes

      I notice the changes after Sturgeon became leader 2015, First it was the lies, fabricating artificial SNP has Done Good Stories, then some jiggery-pokery over elections, sabotaging a council leader , all this was going on while AS was in WM,
      When AS lost the seat, She and Murrell must have thought it was Christmas
      I sat in the last year before getting “expelled” just watching quietly at what was going on
      If I’m correct I believe AS gave Murrell a job as leader AS was his boss, Now Sturgeon has total control
      I noted Swinney last week, he I think, is still harvesting
      a grievance toward AS

    138. Stoker says:

      According to Peston “there is going to be one almighty battle between the government and the lords”

      There are also several serious warning shots coming out of the USA.

    139. OldPete says:

      My family has 3 SNP members and a total of 6 SNP votes. If Nicola Sturgeon is forced out from her first minister’s and SNP leadership role then only one person will remain in the SNP and that’s me. If she is removed from leadership then only one vote from my household will probably be for the ‘new’ SNP and zero votes for any new Independence party or any grouping associated with her downfall.
      I don’t think my family is that unusual as Nicola is popular with many voters and destroying her is likely to lose the SNP a lot of votes in next years election. These lost votes are likely to result in the probable failure to achieve a majority support for Independence within the next Scottish parliament.
      Divide, defeat, destroy then control it was the UK way of ruling its Empire and colonies. It seems little has changed this mindset within the 21st century English political parties. Scotland’s Independence movement appears to be fragmenting just as support within the public for Independence is holding strong at 55%. We can only win Independence if we are all allied together against the common enemy. If we don’t keep united then the British, anti-Scotland supporters will defeat us, any chance of Scottish Independence will be lost and probably forever.

    140. stonefree says:

      @ Joe at 10:19 pm
      I think you are correct,
      The lady on Barrheadboy blog expressed concerns of your second paragraph

    141. robertknight says:

      OldPete @11:06

      “Divide, defeat, destroy then control it was the UK way of ruling its Empire and colonies.”

      Yes, and she and her husband are doing an excellent job at all of the above for whose benefit I ask you? Certainly not Scotland.

      Open your eyes man!

    142. Beaker says:

      @Tannadice Boy says:
      9 September, 2020 at 6:52 pm
      “And it is actually quite difficult posting leaflets. Got chased by a lot of dogs. A wee bonus I suppose is that I lost weight.”

      Try Rutherglen mate. Plenty more wildlife than dogs to worry about.

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some Ruthergleners might consider that hateful, just watch yourself. 🙂

    144. Big Jock says:

      Olds Pete. Whilst I agree we need to stick together.

      Surely you can appreciate that Nicola has sold us all a pup over and over. If we are only holding onto Nicola for fear of losing SNP votes. Then this is wrong.

      We need to have absolute faith that our leader will deliver independence when we vote for it. At the moment it looks like she is conning us. People don’t like being conned!

    145. A Person says:

      “We need to uncritically back Nicola Sturgeon because otherwise Nicola Sturgeon might not be First Minister any longer” is a fairly weak argument.

    146. bipod says:

      Jason Leitch the CMO for Scotland, this is his opinion on the current tests being carried out here

      You don’t hear anything like that on nicolas daily hysteical briefings unfortunately.

    147. Hatuey says:

      OldPete: “Nicola is popular with many voters and destroying her is likely to lose the SNP a lot of votes in next years election… These lost votes are likely to result in the probable failure to achieve a majority support for Independence within the next Scottish parliament.”

      Nicola is popular for a reason: the MSM and establishment give her an easy time because they know she isn’t serious about independence. Additionally, the only thing she has every put time into is her personal approval ratings and popularity.

      You talk about losing majority support in parliament as if it even matters when she has had majority support for independence in parliament and done precisely nothing with it for 5 years.

      Actually, out of respect to those on here who pay more attention to the charade than me, it’s only fair to say that she has put some time and effort into a few other things; gender reform, named guardians, baby boxes, and various strands of other guff.

      I’d simply much rather be committed to a party that was honestly devoted to the cause which I care most about, even if it performed poorly in popularity polls and elections, than be asked to support one that is devoted to stuff I regard as either harmful or irrelevant, regardless of how well it does.

      In other words, I’d rather be on the bottom rung of a ladder I wanted to climb than be half way up one that I didn’t.

      You talk about dividing the independence movement and that’s the part that really stuck in my craw. Sturgeon has systematically undermined the Yes movement from day one. She doesn’t even acknowledge the grassroots. Common Weal and others, including AUOB, have also been effectively shafted.

    148. Unless you can provide evidence that the money taken from short money was spent significantly on expenses outwith the purview of Westminster-related operations… this strikes me as fundamentally baseless innuendo…

      Trying to infer [sic] the SNP is now a short money laundering machine is very peculiar indeed

      izat you, Nicola?

    149. Ruaridh says:

      Can you think of any recent events which might have caused a drop in donations to political parties?

      What about other parties’ incomes for comparison?

      And, again, you haven’t provided any evidence about what the Short Money is actually being used for in practical terms to imply that it isn’t being used simply for the added requirements a larger contingent of MPs brings with it. So unless you can show that other parties are not also seeing massive donation drops and fundraising caused by a loss of donors (which I would be very surprised indeed to see), I’m not sure you can draw the conclusions you seem to be drawing that this is in any way a problem unique to the SNP.

    150. Ruaridh says:

      “You talk about dividing the independence movement and that’s the part that really stuck in my craw. Sturgeon has systematically undermined the Yes movement from day one. She doesn’t even acknowledge the grassroots. Common Weal and others, including AUOB, have also been effectively shafted.”

      Common Weal and AUOB are about as useful and important to the independence campaign as a fart in a spacesuit.

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      At the risk of appearing dogmatic an overbearing, there is a virulent and deadly pathogen on the loose, with the potential to devastate civic society. We have no protection, cure, or adequate test and trace capacity, yet, apparently. So the rational course of action is to follow the science as it develops, and take a precautionary approach to policy.

      The right to health must guide responses to COVID-19

    152. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      10 September, 2020 at 12:22 am
      Jason Leitch the CMO for Scotland, this is his opinion on the current tests being carried out here


      This is crap. That is an old video,heard it moths ago.

      Are you Donald Trump? Ya weasel .Resign now!

    153. robbo says:

      months ago

    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, in odrer to access your “Right to Health”, one has to have economic, social, and cultural rights. So you are on to plumbs if you live in Scotland, thanks to the institutional legal parochialism that sustains the British union.

      Realizing the right to health must be the foundation of the COVID-19 response

    155. Beaker says:

      Just thinking about the Hate Bill. It’s going to really fuck up football. Not on about the Neanderthal sectarian singing, but the more family friendly “The referee’s a wanker!”.

      Can they arrest an entire fitba crowd?

    156. robbo says:


      You should crawl back under your rock . DT has just been exposed as a liar and fraud today.The Bob Woodward tapes all over the news today have shown him to be the liar a lot of us already knew.

      He knew back in late jan/early feb this was a deadly virus that was airborne and 5 times most contagious and deadly than flu and did not act accordingly like a president should do.

      He lied and told the people it was a hoax. This was a gross lie and he should resign.

      This is a thousand times more serious than Watergate, in fact 180,000 more serious. The number that have died over there so far. The man is a disgrace to that office of president .

    157. Beaker says:

      Just watched Bernard Jenkins total car crash of an interview on Newsnight. It’s on Twitter top trend.

      Watch his rather patronising comment asking Emma Barnett to “calm down”, then try not swear.

      Oh dear oh dear. Another Tory sent out as cannon fodder for Boris.

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m sorry for the OT but I think it necessary. I suggested we needed to follow a precautionary approach to policy. That’s of no value though, without a precautionary approach to PRACTICE. Pardon my oversight, but my Practice Theory is as rusty as my epistemology.

      Politics and the Life Sciences, Volume 32, Issue 1, Spring 2013 , pp. 2-21
      Precautionary discourse: Thinking through the distinction between the precautionary principle and the precautionary approach in theory and practice


      This paper addresses the distinction, arising from the different ways the European Union and United States have come to adopt precaution regarding various environmental and health-related risks, between the precautionary principle and the precautionary approach in both theory and practice.

      First, this paper addresses how the precautionary principle has been variously defined, along with an exploration of some of the concepts with which it has been associated. Next, it addresses how the distinction between the precautionary principle and precautionary approach manifested itself within the political realm.

      Last, it considers the theoretical foundation of the precautionary principle in the philosophy of Hans Jonas, considering whether the principled-pragmatic distinction regarding precaution does or doesn’t hold up in Jonas’ thought.

      Frontiers in Public Health, 07 July 2016
      The Precautionary Principle, Evidence-Based Medicine, and Decision Theory in Public Health Evaluation

    159. leither says:

      Christian Wright says:
      izat you, Nicola?

      izat you sean clerkin ?

    160. A Person says:


      Another way of putting it might be that by and large, apart from us malcontents who read this blog, the independence movement IS united. Unfortunately it’s united behind a politician who doesn’t care about independence, but who many Indy supporters defer to because she pays lip service to the concept, who has effectively turned the whole party into a personal fan club, and who pursues a disturbingly authoritarian policy agenda. When people on the pro-Indy side have any concerns, they are told to “wheesht for Indy”, i.e. that said politician MUST be allowed to do as she pleases. Frankly there’s something a bit too domestic-abuser about that for my liking.

    161. Rm says:

      It has to be another party for the list vote, things are starting to get pear shaped and the list party will have to take over, all the Independence hubs will have to unite under one new list party.

    162. Contrary says:

      There is a huge popular vote specifically for Nicola Sturgeon – that’s yer populism for ye (you know, the same as the blind faith popularity that Boris enjoys,,,) – and I think the best case plan would be to turn Nicola Sturgeon to independence. That would mean – in this theoretical world – the populist vote remains intact (and they tell us ‘told you so’ whoopee can’t wait – but worth it IF she does give us a referendum and campaign to bring independence about), AND we get an independence referendum – or a mechanism to gain independence.

      I don’t know how resistant she is to independence – certainly she’s avoided it and manoeuvred to ensure it is bottom of the list of things to do. Nicola Sturgeon also appears to be wholly ignorant about economic matters (and, it appears, quite a few other things) – there are many things that could have already been put in place and set up in preparation of independence, things that have not been done. Well, as far as I know, this might be yet another of these ‘secret’ things they are mysteriously doing.

      I think economics is one of the key drivers that can make any argument for independence not just doable but attractive. So, I have spotted a connection that could maybe be used to influence Nicola’s main advisor on economics, and so maybe influence her. Yes tenuous and relies on people being convinced of certain things and things happening reasonably speedily, and all I can do is set the ball rolling (I have probably less than zero influence myself), which I have done.

      If anyone else sees a roundabout route for putting some pressure on her – advisors or friends (?), people that could be convinced that independence now is beneficial (on whatever subject their speciality is in). It needs people that realise she has no intention of delivering independence to drive it, by whatever means, but not by protest or complaining. That is, the final influencer will be a direct supporter of NS, but actually able to rationalise, and can be influenced by someone with a strong sense of social justice, who in turn has you to point them in the right direction.

      Things may all change by next May, of course, but then the NS populist vote would be lost – maybe, if by some miracle, someone like Joanna Cherry got leadership, this could be recovered a bit but she would not have time to build confidence in the voters. I’m just thinking of the need to gain independence as soon as practicable after Brexit (it’s going to be,,, difficult to recover from it the longer we are mired in a post-brexit world) and the most efficient way towards it. I don’t particularly want NS doing any negotiating (not one of her skills), but I don’t care if she is a vile person, I just want her forced into delivering independence.

      I don’t know how the SNP can avoid independence after Brexit – it’s the end point of all their delaying excuses, but then, they’ve introduced ‘Covid recovery’ as a delay – which makes no sense,,, but, the populist vote will agree with anything she says.

      I think her legal advice is faulty and a bad influence at the moment (Wolffe QC) – and this kind of advice can inform on options and tell how ‘easily’ things can be done. I think Wolffe needs to be,,, gone, just gone, out of the picture, and hopefully his reputation in tatters and stripped of all his licences etc. Are there any other legal advice Nicola Sturgeon listens to, and does anyone know someone that knows someone that can start putting pressure on them to start giving ‘good’ advice? Just start thinking about it – you might be surprised at who you can talk to that might have influence on someone that definitely has influence.

    163. susanXX says:

      Agree about the list party vote Rm but not so sure about them all having to unite. As long as there isn’t too much overlap of list parties between the regions the objective should be achievable. The trouble with all Indy list parties “uniting” is that the Central Belters take over.

      Believe it or not but other parts of Scotland have distinct interests too.

    164. Craig P says:

      I don’t care about the short money, it may make the SNP dependent upon state funding but there’s nothing illegal or dodgy about it.

      The alledegly missing money from the ‘ring-fenced’ indyref 2 fund is a different matter entirely. It would be good to know what is going on there.

    165. Legally ending the Treaty of Union,

      `Consent (to signing a treaty) will also be invalidated if it was induced by the fraudulent conduct of another party,

      or by the direct or indirect “corruption” of its representative by another party to the treaty.`

      how many of those `Scots` that voted for the Treaty were corrupted by the promise of English gold,land and titles,

    166. Ottomanboi says:

      Scot Finlayson 08:15
      By today’s standards, however defective, the treaty was illegal. The Scottish parliament was not a representative body of the Scottish people but a clique of self-selecting, self-interested individuals.
      Bribery, see the activities of Daniel Foe the English government agent and spy, was the driver.
      Having invested in the fatuous Darien Scheme and lost money this clique would sell their children.
      Not sure much has actually changed in modern Scotland. There is still a clique running things.

    167. Rm says:

      Just heard Ian Blockford on the Radio, he’s some boy screaming for Independence now, ffs he’s had the last how many years to put up a fight and not a cheep, we’ll never hear anything from him again probably for another few years, Scotland needs some real men and women who will put up a fight, this english Government are making a complete fool of Scotland just now, probably as they’ve always done, we’re in some mess just now.

    168. Margaret E says:

      Craig P 7.51am
      It’s not a question of whether it is good to know what happened to the ring-fenced funds, it is ESSENTIAL to know and in detail. Though not an SNP member, I contributed in good faith from my limited pensioner budget, to both the party and the special referendum appeal.
      Don’t I have a right to know what was done with it, if not to a second referendum?
      I did not contribute as a member, so it is up to members to find out what has happened to their subscriptions.
      It is strange indeed that the SNP Treasurer denies all knowledge of the Murrell salary. In fact it is unbelievable. If the coffers are so low, where does his salary come from?

    169. Breeks says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      10 September, 2020 at 8:15 am

      Legally ending the Treaty of Union,

      `Consent (to signing a treaty) will also be invalidated if it was induced by the fraudulent conduct of another party….


      I personally like the idea of disputing Scotland’s colonial subjugation over Brexit as the most immediate, indisputable and unambiguous breach of the Treaty of Union, but yes, present it as the straw which breaks the camel’s back… I’d also like to have 300+ years of similar offences of corruption, bribery, coercion, fraud and sophistry taken into consideration.

      I might also make passing reference to Charles Stewart’s repeal of the Union…

      But one breach of the Treaty made to stick, and be recognised internationally, is all it needs… and Brexit not only violates the Treaty of Union, but directly subjugates the explicit and emphatic democratic will of the people.

      Brexit gives Scotland a cast iron case for victory; an end to the Union, and the Union destroyed by Westminster’s perfidy, leaving Scotland as the innocent and aggrieved party in the Union’s collapse.

      Brexit should, by any fair measure, be fatal to the Union. What utter fools we are to squander that opportunity, and those responsible for doing just that should never be forgiven.

    170. Stoker says:

      And for the second day in a row the bbc is promoting the partitioning of Shetland from the rest of Scotland. How very divisive of them eh?

      Apparently some unnamed councillors have “voted overwhelmingly” to explore the option of breaking from an indy Scotland.

      I don’t recall them giving Shetland the same coverage when Shetland, just like the rest of Scotland, voted to remain in the EU.

      Nor do I ever recall the bbc promoting the independence for Cornwall line.

    171. Gregory Beekman says:

      Blackford’s become a joke in Westminster with his silly little speeches during PMQs when he’s supposed to be asking killer questions.

      Time we had a change of Westminster leader, me thinks…

    172. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Hatuey 12.27: well said. Sums up my gloomy thoughts at the moment.

      More corruption and authoritarianism reported by one of the few real journalists left in the UK:

    173. kapelmeister says:

      Blackford is a waster in a waistcoat. He’ll talk a good game but that’s all. The perfect HoC group leader to suit Sturgeon.

    174. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Stoker 9.03: quite so but geographical knowledge is not great Ablaw the Dyke anyway. A family member was watching The Chase yesterday and reported this bewildering exchange to me:

      Question: “Which English county was the setting for the film Fisherman’s Friends?”

      Contestant: “Scotland.”

    175. @Breeks,

      we could have a referendum just to confirm the will of the people to independence,

      and then annul the Treaty by proving corruption and intimidation influenced the `Scots` that signed over their nation to foreign rule,

      we just need to win the referendum and prove the corruption and intimidation 🙂

    176. liz says:

      We need a decent journalist to run with – where has the money gone. If fraud can be proved, that will be the end of the NS ,Murrell control freakery.

      I did hear a comment about the money allegedly going to a Progressive company.
      No proof given.

    177. Ottomanboi says:

      Scotland’s decline began before the 1707 Union. James VI taking the Scottish court to London set the trend. Had the man any balls he would have stayed put.
      And before that there was the Knoxian Reformation which weakened Scotland internally allowing ample scope for English mischief making.
      The lesson is simple, if you do not stand up to England, England will stand, or worse, on you.

    178. mike cassidy says:

      This may be the week Brussels gave up on Brexit.

    179. iain mhor says:

      It’s all a conundrum isn’t it and has been for a while.
      I hadn’t given it lot of thought recently; assuming nowadays there would be a fair few bigger hitters weighing in. So the article was a bit of a surprise.

      If I can be arsed I must have a look at past figures (unless someone is already on it) Certainly, there could be a shedload of sub-£500 quid donors and desire for anonymity is plausable, I wouldn’t say there is anything particular sinister in wanting to be an anonymous donor – well up to a point anyway.

      It seems picking on the SNP, but only really because I already assume megabucks dodgy cash flowing into the coffers of the primary Unionist parties. I never expected to see those levels of donations to the SNP, but a healthy few nontheless; at least to reduce any concerns of solvency.
      It is a concern, whether one is fully behind the SNP or not, it has instantly raised fresh fears over an ‘Indy fighting fund’.

      It doesn’t appear to be in isolation though, because if there were quite a few pro-indy philanthropists around, there would be fewer grassroots crowdfunders scrabbling for funds. They aren’t even particularly required to be as publically accountable as a political party, nor restricted to UK donors

      The inescapable conclusion is: either, no philanthropist frankly gives enough of a toss, or possibly they are there (but few) and tend to spread large sums over many donations. It’s still not a glowing account of the fiscal health of the entire Independence movement though really is it?

      Is it a PR thing, as Mr McAskill suggested – are we not speculating to accumulate among the Scottish diaspora enough? Possibly, but again, if the grassroots are scrabbling for cash and few Scotophilic ‘angel investors’ exist – where do the funds come from to invest in the PR?

      For all the negatives surrounding the violence in Ireland, of unhappy memory; by all accounts Boston bars and beyond had no bother filling jars of donations to ‘the cause’. Why would that be? Was it run as a racket, the nature of the ‘struggle’ breeding a mafiosi, ideally suited to fund raising even if by coercion – was it helped by religion and by reach of ‘the faithfull’? Possibly

      I could think of many ‘Independence struggles’ which seemed to have little problems raising funds – admittedly usually of a very dodgy nature.
      Is that Scotland’s curse – It’s very civic, civilised and quietly democratic pursuit of independence just doesn’t set the heather alight, or stir the blood? There’s probably a thesis in there (CBB will whip a study out in a minute)

      There is a sudden interest in the SNP’s finances and who is bankrolled – heathy enough in any democracy – but no takedown of the Unionists – is it attacking the SNP specifically, or just giving up on disecting the Unionists – on the assumption corruption there is endemic and so a pointless exercise – we hold our Independence parties to loftier standards.

      Well, that’s bringing a knife to a gun fight and laudable as lofty ideals are, maybe we struggle because we won’t get down and dirty. I suppose we do want it differently, not to become just another corrupt oligarchy. Well, it’s an ideal, but not one that attracts money – look at who has it – such Banyans tend not to be ascetic – It’s a moral conundrum isn’t it.

      If I wanted to be fair, I’d say the SNP are just suffering from the same malaise as the rest of the movement – although some fault must lie at their door for that – lets face it, for a political party agitating for independence, a more insipid example you could not find – nowadays certainly.

      I’m not that keen on a rise of dodgy freedom fighting mafiosi to fill the coffers of the brave struggle for independence – fuck that noise – so I must accept the consequences I suppose. ‘Not keen’, says it all really.

      What else do we do – prostitute Scotland’s assets ‘ “gies £500k today and you’ll get to run the offshore industries, £200k bags you CEO of Scottish water, roll, up roll up plenty of real estate will be up for grabs we promise’

      The problem with that approach is; those who may want to own Scotland already do – no incentive really. They already have it all – how does Indy improve matters for them? It doesn’t, unless they are in danger of having their English assets and influence stripped and decide to consolidate their own Kingdom instead – like David, The Bruce and others (ooh Iain, no! boo-hiss!)

      There is an outside chance that such ‘players’ could see their assets, operations and influence stripped with Brexit (especially if a US deal turns sour) and might just decide the time is ripe for grabbing a Kingdom. Though they have one just across the water to bail to, it might, just might, become an attractive prospect to control their own malleable fiefdom.

      For all I know (and t’internet would have me believe) it is the global body corporate who run the affairs of nations. Scotland isn’t Independent because they don’t need it to be. When they do, we may be surprised by the speed it occurs and marvel at the money suddenly pouring in to finance it.

      Ach well, I’ll think up some more rambling crap later – if ye’s are unlucky, I might post it.

    180. Stan Broadwood says:

      How much money was meant to be Ring-fenced for the next Referendum?

      It would give us an idea of how deep the corruption runs.

      It surely must show up in somebody’s books.

      This reminds us of the days of the Labour Party and the corruption that ran through that Party.

      From shop stewards to councillors and their brown envelope hand outs.

      The SNP need broken up,,,and only Independence will achieve this.

      This is why the Murrell’s are in no hurry for Scotland to become an independent nation.

    181. Desimond says:

      Its not just the MPs like Mr “Wannabee Speaker” Wishart then who may be overly comfortable with a Westminster income….

    182. Big Jock says:

      Just coincidence I am sure.

      The BBC ran a piece on Shetland autonomy. Funny when independence is at 56% , the BBC suddenly start trying to carve up Scotland.

      Two things. Why anyone in Shetland would want London rule rather than Holyrood is beyond me. Autonomy is for after independence. Do they want a devolved parliament to devolve it’s limited devolved powers to another devolved tiny executive in Shetland.

      Shetland is not and has never been a nation. It was gifted to Scotland from Norway. Shetlanders are Scots , but they often forget this. To me they are no different to the Western Isles or Arran. They are Scottish islands. Just because they are further north does not diminish their Scottishness. Scotland is a small nation.

      One difference is Oil. This is not about autonomy, it’s Liberal democrats trying to cause division. It bugs me that people constantly complain about central belt bias.

      The majority of the population and industry is in the Central belt. Scotland is not a big country like Germany. The capital is within 100 miles of the majority of us.

      If the Shetlands really want autonomy then lets have autonomy for Lewis, Uist, Arran, Skye , Inverness, Fort William , Falkirk. It’s just garbage.

    183. Stan Broadwood says:

      How much money was meant to be Ring-fenced for the next Referendum?

      It would give us an idea of how deep the corruption runs.

      It surely must show up in somebody’s books.

      This reminds us of the days of the Labour Party and the corruption that ran through that Party.

      From shop stewards to councillors and their brown envelope hand outs.

      The SNP needs broken up,,,and only Independence will achieve this.

      This is why the Murrell’s are in no hurry for Scotland to become an independent nation.

    184. Desimond says:

      Clearly this IS NOT happening but isnt using dead peoples names to launder money a classic con trick…

      This is a BBC Scotland Sunday night drama plot waiting to happen.. cue investigative reporter James Nesbitt walking around the Necropolis taking notes when suddenly we see the dark figure of a hitman exit a car..

    185. tartanfever says:

      It’s an odd post and reactions.

      Yes, we want to know the specifics of the SNP accounts and where and how monies have been spent. Unfortunately, we will only know that when those accounts are published.

      The idea of central funding for political parties has been in effect for decades, and all parties receive that funding. Singling out the SNP, when all parties rely on this funding is an odd take.

      The question we should be asking ourselves is ‘How do we want political parties to be funded ? ‘

      And that can be either through private donations or public funding or a mix of both. Public funding through a formula would immediately hamper the lobbying industry, as no corporate or private donations could be made. That would put an end to Russian oligarchs money and ‘cash for questions’ scandals that come up every few years.

      Public funding would have issues about Who gets to decide funding, what formula will be used, who will be in charge etc etc for fear of current government manipulation.

      Maybe think about it in terms of Public vs. Privatisation ?

      Personally, I’d rather see £200m of public money being spent on political parties than having special interest finance sector types donating millions to the Conservatives. It may be useful to google Crispin Odey, the Tory backer and the Byline Times article on Tory party funding Hedge Funds bets shorting a ‘no deal’ position to the tune of £ billions.

    186. LeggyPeggy says:

      Re monthly donations to the Snp , I know at least five people and myself included who have now stopped their monthly donations to the party , we now only pay the minimum yearly membership costs since Nicola’s statement on the 31st January and until they announce a date for an Independence referendum that is all we will be paying into the party for now .

      It would be interesting to now know in total how many people have now stopped their monthly donations .

    187. Athanasius says:

      So, the party’s officer boards are overrun with woke warriors who have little or no interest in independence and most of its finance comes from the British state. I wouldn’t be ordering our Scottish passport just yet.

    188. mike cassidy says:

      iain mhor 10.08

      Looks like you’ll just have to play

      Gandhi – the war game

    189. Daisy Walker says:

      If money was raised for a specific political purpose (A Scottish Indy Ref2), leaving aside thoughts of possible fraud, and this money is then used for a different (if related) political purpose (SNP GE Campaign fund)- would this not be an electoral crime?

      When Scotland In Union spent money left right and centre to ‘save the union’ during a GE campaign – the Electoral Commission found them not to have committed any crime because they were not fighting the GE and no indy ref 2 had been called.

      I thought at the time that gave us, the YES Movement and the SNP a legal precedent / opportunity to campaign all we wanted – and not have to data harvest names and keep accounts of donations – in a campaign for Indy – which would all be legal until an IR2 is declared and those details would have to start being collated.

      Isn’t it strange how a MSM went to town on NS for wearing a pair of leather hunter boots and green jacket on the beach (not to mention her having a coffee maker!) and yet they have not dug into – if rumours are correct – a wage packet for her husband in the 6 figures?

      Isn’t it strange they go for a female SNP council leader – for buying more than one dress – on her official expenses? The spendthrift! and yet Mr Mundell’s rumoured ‘nice little earner’ – gets no hint of interest.

      Isn’t it strange – the MSM – so keen to find anything, anything at all to besmirch the SNP and demoralise Yes – are not even sniffing round this question of what happened to the ring fenced Indy Fund – held in ‘trust’ by the SNP.

      I mean it is such a basic thing that the SNP should have publicly accounted for. And such a simple and legitimate thing to question.

      How much was raised in the time the fund raising was on.
      In what type of account is it held.
      How much interest has it earned in its ‘ring fenced’ haven.

      And since the active fund raising account was closed for some considerable time – more than 2 years now? – why are public accounts of it taking so long to produce. Produce them now and put paid to malicious rumours I say.

      And why are the SNP not pointing to that pot of money as a moral booster for Yes and saying, this is what we’ve got, as soon as we start – 50,000 has been set aside for Billboard campaign, 10,000 for T shirt, 5000 for first batch of posters, etc, etc.

      Anyway, if the British Establishment have got NS and hubby by the cheque book, just think, right just now their movers and shakers will be debating, do we throw them to the lions just now, or do we replace that pot of money to keep them in place.

      Timing is everything as they say.

      They will need to be VERY useful to the Brit Nats for them not to be thrown to the lions at this moment in time.

      We may be about to get a 1/2 million pound donation to the Yes movement from the Brit Nats. Isn’t that ironic.

      Of course they have no experience of assisting ‘little local difficulties’ like this in any way – just ask ‘cash for ash arlene’ over in NI.

      And do you know what folks – it doesn’t matter. Indy is bigger than them.

      And we can do so much better than Boris.

    190. robertknight says:

      Let’s face it, the Weirs pretty well bankrolled IndyRef1.

      The SNP ‘machine’ needs to be kept well oiled and British Establishment cash does exactly that; the membership fees and legacies I doubt would allow for a Chief Exec’s salary of £ plus expenses, if that is indeed the sum involved.

      Unlike Labour, with it’s half million members and Trade Union piggy bank, or the Tories, with big bucks from big business, the SNP, much like the LibDems, have to go looking for crumbs below tables elsewhere.

      Without the gravy from Westminster MPs, I suspect the SNP wouldn’t have enough income to cover staff costs, let alone mount election campaigns. Makes you think…

    191. iain mhor says:

      @mike cassidy 11:20am

      Interesting game concept ta.
      Could do with their numbers right enough. I have a suspicion it worked, only because of overwhelming numbers and a vast majority of them not happy bunnies.

      Still, I also suspect, if the greater majority of Scotland did turn – twinset & pearls alike – then they’d have a problem, but they aint and don’t look to be anytime soon.

      A quandry – there’s something fundamental we’re missing about them, buggered if I know what. Whatever it is at heart, my fear is there is it’s too ingrained; they’re just not that keen on the concept of ‘Scotland’ and happier with the ‘Union’ at any price.

      Do they even have a price, what’s their deepest fear I wonder? That’s how it seems to works I believe – fear over hope. Fears are about all we have nowadays BTL – the heady hopes and aspirations of 2014 a distant memory *sigh

    192. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Big Jock 11.00:

      “Shetland is not and has never been a nation. It was gifted to Scotland from Norway. Shetlanders are Scots , but they often forget this. To me they are no different to the Western Isles or Arran. They are Scottish islands. Just because they are further north does not diminish their Scottishness. Scotland is a small nation.”

      And of course, before the Viking invasion of Shetland and Orkney, the people were Pictish and therefore would have had substantial ties to mainland Scotland. Despite the Norse identity which many of these islanders doubtless feel, DNA analysis seems to show marked similarities with other former Pictish areas, such as North East Scotland, for example. I think a 2019 study suggested roughly 80% Scottish to Norse 20% DNA markers for the present population.

    193. CameronB Brodie says:

      iain mhor
      You’re obviously an intelligent individual, yet I detect a latent ambivalence towards me? Am I paranoid or are you thin skinned?

      Boosting Investment in Social Infrastructure
      in Europe
      Report of the High-Level Task Force
      on Investing in Social Infrastructure in Europe
      chaired by Romano Prodi and Christian Sautter



      The High-Level Task Force (HLTF) on Investing in Social Infrastructure in Europe was initiated by the European Long-Term Investors Association (ELTI). It was chaired by Romano Prodi and Christian Sautter and comprised representatives from the European Commission, the European Investment Bank, the Council of Europe Development Bank, many National Promotional Banks as well as associations and experts from the social sector.

      The HLTF’s mission was to raise political attention to the crucial role of social infrastructure and related services, aiming to enhance public and private investments in this sector. Long-term, flexible and efficient investment in education, health and affordable housing is considered essential for the economic growth of the European Union (EU), the well-being of its people and am successful move towards upward convergence in the EU.

      This final report contains a comprehensive collection of facts and figures on social infrastructure and social services and the related financing needs. Based on the conclusions and results, the report formulates concrete recommendations aimed at enhancing current financing tools as well as for future schemes and initiatives in the social sector.

      JEL Classification: I000.

      Social infrastructure; social services, market analysis, market gap, financing, public spending, private investments, social Europe.

    194. LeggyPeggy says:

      Interesting article from the times , “ Candidates claim the Snp being a bit awkward “ re vetting of certain candidates interestingly enough it includes Chris McEleny . I wonder why that would be .

      If they don’t pass Chris for vetting I’m sure they can expect more members resigning from the Snp .

    195. Stan Broadwood says:

      So Sturgeon wants us all to download her Corona Virus app to our phones.

      She says it is necessary to help save lives.

      Well how about you listening to us for a change Sturgeon.

      We have been pleading with you for years now to call indyRef2, because if we get stuck in Brexit Britain with Crazy Boris running the show, then just think of the number of Scots who will die due to poverty and other life threatening circumstances due to your inaction.

      So don’t give us your Covid19 shit, when our calls for indyRef2 have fell on deaf ears.

      You need to take the people with you,,, this is not a one way street for you to drive down.

      There has to be come and go on both sides.

      So if you start pushing for indyRef2, then you might just find more people will take your advice regarding Covid19.

    196. Big Jock says:

      Stan- Why doesn’t she create an independence app instead. It could maybe track and trace those infected by MI5. Plenty of those in the SNP.

    197. Famous15 says:

      Stan I have downloaded the App Protect Scotland NHS and it did not hurt one little bit.

      BTW are you sure that you do not belong under the same stone as Donald Trump.

      I hate the hate crime bill because it would stop me saying what I really think of Stan


      Independence is normal but Stan is no!

    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      Perhaps the SNP’s funds are failing, as folk don’t like being taken for a ride. Even though the political judgement of the Scottish electorate has been systematically infantilised by the process of methodological nationalism, needed to create the British identity.

      Women’s Financial Inclusion Framework

    199. Effijy says:

      England don’t want the Scottish Shetland islands to be free.
      They just don’t want them to be Scottish because they have
      Huge reserves of oil and England wants that for England.

      Strange to suggest a Sovereign Nation should be stripped of its powers
      But one of its regions should have a great deal more.

      Nothing corrupts a Tory better than oil money!

      If they would listen to themselves we have that unique type that runs out.
      They said it would run out in every decade since the 70’s.
      A 50 year lie followed by a new very expensive pipeline that can bring oil
      Ashore for the next 50 years.

      Not many governments can keep a straight face with a 100 year long lie.

    200. MaggieC says:

      I see that the Harrasment Complaints Committee have published the letter from Peter Murrel to the committee ,

      And they have written back to him yesterday , don’t think they’re very happy with his reply to the committee ,

    201. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @MaggieC –

      Again, thanks for these updates.

    202. Stan Broadwood says:


      I know Independence is normal,,,try telling that to your hero Sturgeon.

      She seems to think being stuck in Brexit Britain is more favourable than Scotland being an independent nation.

    203. Stan Broadwood says:

      Big jock 1.05pm

      What a brilliant idea.

      A special app to let us send back our support for Scottish Independence.

      I will ignore her Covid 19 app, just the same as she has ignored me for six years regarding my request for a referendum.

    204. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood ,

      I’m checking the updates to the correspondence every day ,
      As my family call me the “ nosy bugger “ I’ve got to keep up my reputation , LOL .

    205. Dave Somerville says:

      Has the whole Scottish Parliament been told Only to talk about Covid19?

    206. Ian Brotherhood says:

      MaggieC –


      Can I just check – is this the link you’re using or is there another?

    207. Grey Gull says:

      @MaggieC and @IanB

      As Isa from Still Game says “People huv tae know” ! Thanks for the links.

    208. Bob Mack says:

      Murrell is taking evasiveness to new levels. Why? Surely there is nothing to hide?

    209. Juteman says:

      I have to give myself a shake as i read Wings these days.
      I’m meant to believe that the SNP are actually a British State construct to stop Scottish independence.
      This blog is now an anti SNP blog, and it has really hurt me that someone i’ve followed for 8 years has went in this direction.

    210. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t think that’s what the article is suggesting. I read it as simply pointing to the party’s lack of financial independence. Which is of relevance, I’d have thought, as it may, or may not, be a factor contributing to the party’s apparent inability to defend the rule-of-law. And their reflexive and supine bending of the knee.

    211. Stan Broadwood says:

      Juteman 2.09pm

      “…and it has really hurt me that someone i’ve followed for 8 years has went in this direction”

      Who are you talking about Juteman,..Nicola Sturgeon???

    212. Juteman says:

      Why is Stu not writing articles about the funding of the British parties that stand in Scottish elections?
      Why does Stu write articles to deflate the confidence and positive emotions of activists?
      Why has the blog been infiltrated by obvious British trolls that seem to have free reign BTL?
      What is really going on here?

    213. Breastplate says:

      Nobody has said the SNP is a British state construct to stop independence.
      The article is about the SNP getting used to their cushy jobs in government and about not adhering to the “settle up and not settle in” philosophy that we in the Yes Movement expect from them.

      Surely, it’s not beyond anyone to see that perhaps the SNP hierarchy see no real problem in delaying an independence referendum.

    214. Terry says:

      Lions led by donkeys comes to mind.

      Or even worse.

      And peter Murrell saying he was unaware of matters? Well if “rumours” are correct he is up to his neck in the framing of Alex Salmond. If it’s as bad as it looks I hope the lot of the plotters get their jotters. It’s a betrayal of the independence movement, of the SNP and most importantly the people of Scotland.

      By the way has anybody else noticed blustering Blackford sounds deflated now? Even he must realise that we can’t be conned any longer.

    215. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 1.42 pm

      The link you posted is to the Correspondence page and there is also the Written evidence page . This is the link to the Written evidence page ,

      and I see it’s also now been updated with further written submissions from Nicola Richards and James Hynd since their appearance at the committee on the 25th August but I’ve not read them yet

      Grey gull @ 1.42 pm

      I suppose that since Still Game is no longer on tv I may as well take over from Isa .
      Happy reading , LOL .

    216. kapelmeister says:

      Toodleoothenoo is to retire from the BBC. Done his bit to prolong the union.

    217. iain mhor says:

      @CBB 12:43pm

      Hehe ambivalent is the word.
      I do take note of some of your posts and links, others not so much; you are certainly profligate – maybe it was just an acknowledgement, that if anyone could find (or trouble themselves to find) a sociological study of the matter – you’d be the man.
      Maybe it’s a compliment?

      Ta for the link, which informs general considerations for identifying political strategies for social investment.
      Though I was hinting more at a study of…lets call it violence vs pacifism and its relationship to err fiscality and umm I dunno attraction of dum de dum sociological phenotypes, or somesuch – I dunno – winging it here.

      See, rubbish at clearly identifying the subject matter = misery in finding relevant studies.
      Best leave it to the man eh?

    218. Breastplate says:

      While I’m here, I don’t understand why people think it is necessary for everyone in the Yes Movement to get along with and agree with each other.
      This divisiveness allegation that is thrown at people who criticise the SNP and their strategy is just pish.

      I personally believe that the SNP have been piss poor in their strategy of getting us an independence referendum, I will still vote Yes for an independent Scotland as will the all the others in the Yes Movement whether they agree with me or not.

      As I’ve said before on here, I don’t give a shit who delivers independence as long as it’s fucking delivered.

      So where the fuck is our independence referendum that we voted for?
      Why do we not have a date yet?
      And who the fuck is holding it up?

      Divisiveness? There will be no divisiveness during an independence campaign so why don’t we have one?
      Who is actually causing this divisiveness?

    219. Sharny Dubs says:

      Juteman I believe this site is a pro independence site nothing more nothing less.

      If a political party changes its huge then it should be noted and commented on surely?

    220. Dan says:

      @Juteman at 2:17 pm

      Just my opinion, but with regard to unionist parties, Wings has “been there, done that” for years, and with support for Indy over 50%, the focus is now about keeping the Indy vehicle on the straight and narrow road.
      A job that entails stopping fuckwits grabbing the wheel to take detours to every place other than our preferred destination before we all turn orange and and die from decades of munching carrots whilst mandate farming.

    221. Breeks says:

      MaggieC says:
      10 September, 2020 at 1:14 pm

      ….And they have written back to him yesterday , don’t think they’re very happy with his reply to the committee….

      After claiming he knows ‘nussing’, he’ll now have to vet everybody’s notes, emails and WhatsApp comments, for any reference which implies he might be telling porkies and that did know something.

      ‘Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive‘…

    222. Bob Mack says:


      Wee Ginger Dug wil! sate your need for comfort. The rest of us will just have to live with reality.

    223. robertknight says:

      Terry @ 2:28

      “By the way has anybody else noticed blustering Blackford sounds deflated now? Even he must realise that we can’t be conned any longer”

      Ian Blackford could tell me his name was Ian Blackford and I’d have to ask for a second opinion.

      When someone tells you that they won’t allow something catastrophic to happen to your country, then proceed to sit on their hands and do the square root of bugger all about it, you can’t help but loose faith.

      Either Blackford is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are stupid. Take your pick…

      Juteman @ 2:17…

      COVID regulations only require your mouth and nose to be covered – not your eyes and ears.

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      iain mhor
      Perhaps you’d like me to think it was a compliment? I’m afraid I’m a little too rusty to simply produce the analysis your looking for, though I don’t think I’m totally useless. After all, I think I successful linked the precautionary principle, environmental justice, and the right to health, with the legal doctrine of PROPORTIONALITY and natural rights. 😉

      Emancipation in the Neoliberal Era: Rethinking Transition with Karl Polanyi

      The economic historian Karl Polanyi charted the development of market society. Moving beyond a simple opposition between the state and the market, his seminal The Great Transformation explained how a centuries-long dialectical relationship between the two shaped modern Western Europe.

      Today, transition and transformation are again the order of the day. After 40 years of neoliberalism tearing at the social fabric, what form will the 21st-century counter-movement take?

    225. Stan Broadwood says:

      The Sturgeon fanatics who still cling to her every word remind me of No Voters before the 2014 Referendum.

      They also just “didn’t get it”,,,and we couldn’t understand why they didn’t get it.

      But eventually more and more of them came round to our way of thinking.

      Hopefully the Sturgeon fanatics will see the error of their ways and choose a leader who truly wants Independence first and foremost,,, unlike the present imposter.

    226. Stoker says:

      Tinto Chiel says on 10 September, 2020 at 9:22 am:

      “@Stoker 9.03: quite so but geographical knowledge is not great Ablaw the Dyke anyway. A family member was watching The Chase yesterday and reported this bewildering exchange to me:

      Question: “Which English county was the setting for the film Fisherman’s Friends?”

      Contestant: “Scotland.”

      Aye! Seen the actual clip of that on Twitter earlier today. Words really do fail me. (shakes head).

    227. boris says:

      Mundell called for a debate on what new powers Scottish local government should be given by Holyrood in order to take greater control over their own affairs, saying:

      “The issue of devolution to local communities is now an urgent one for Scotland. There is a revolution going on in local government across the rest of the United Kingdom, with local areas regaining power and responsibility at an unprecedented rate. Scotland cannot afford to be left behind as the rest of the UK revolutionises how it governs itself, giving towns, cities and counties more of the autonomy which our international competitors enjoy. It’s time we had a proper debate about devolution within Scotland. Councils need to make their voices heard on what powers and responsibilities they want to have to shape their futures. Devolution is not worthy of the name if it stops at the gates of Holyrood.

    228. Breastplate says:

      I see that Paul kavanagh from WGD now accepts that the S30 gold standard strategy of the SNP may not be an entirely credible plan and other paths to independence may need to be examined.

      This is entirely welcome in my opinion. Juteman however, may not agree.

    229. Vestas says:

      For those struggling to “join the dots” on “ring-fenced” indy funds :

      The implication is that someone VERY senior in the SNP party management decided to use those funds to pay their own (and others) salaries because the SNP were broke. The funds are unlikely to have been reimbursed to the “ring-fenced” indy fund.

      Many of us have been waiting for these accounts for that specific reason – if the leader of the party and her husband (party manager) authorised the use of this money then the rot is incurable.

      If the monies in the “ring-fenced” fund were used to pay party staffers rather than the purpose for which it was raised then why would anyone trust the SNP party management ever again? Any sane person would say “go fuck yourself if you want more money”…..

    230. Republicofscotland says:

      It should be pointed out that Westminster is already breaking International Law over the Chagos Islands, so it should come as no surprise that they’re doing it again. Independence is the only way to safe guard the future of Scotland.

      I heard on the radio earlier on that the Green Bench Lounge Lizard, Jacob Rees-Mogg is now self-isolating

    231. Republicofscotland says:

      This is just wishful thinking on the British nationalists behalf, its another clear sign that they see the inevitability of Scottish independence. Of course the British Empire has form on matters like this such as hewing away part of India to create Pakistan, not to mention the Sykes-Picot border lines that have caused decades of fighting in the Middle East.

    232. Juteman says:

      @Private Broadwood.
      You have earned your pay the last few weeks.

    233. bittie45 says:

      I hear that Brian Taylor has resigned. I thought recently he was pretty supporting in his reporting of the Scottish Government, and wondered what had changed. Now we hear he’s going. Funny that.

    234. Juteman says:

      I think the Sec30 thing is a pile of shite.
      I still think attacking the SNP is doing the unionists job for them.
      Some folk seem to have lost their way.

    235. Republicofscotland says:

      Good Riddance to this British nationalist who spouted the state broadcasters (BBC) propaganda in Scotland with such enthusiastic glee.

    236. Juteman says:

      If i found out that the FM was breaking into Embra Zoo at night to have sex with zebras i would keep quiet about it until after Indy. Indy is the prize, and the FM is very popular with the public.
      The Tories always win because they are ruthless, and couldn’t give a shit about anything but the prize.
      The Scots seem to be child like amateurs in comparison.

    237. Breastplate says:

      It would be a surreal if the SNP received no criticism whatsoever and I would argue that it would also give the Unionists more ammunition not less.

    238. Breastplate says:

      Criticism from their own side is what I mean.

    239. Stan Broadwood says:

      Juteman 4.16pm

      You are one smart cookie,,, you caught me red handed.

      Ok I admit it,,,I am a member of the 78th Brigade of the Alex Salmond fan club and I am ready to accept any punishment you see fit to hand out.

      You Sturgeon fanatics aren’t just a pretty face.

      Can I ask one question before you shoot me???

      Did you come on here just to hunt me down and condemn me to death,,,or is there another reason for your visit???

    240. Breastplate says:

      Juteman, I agree that whatever progresses an outcome of independence is good but I think we disagree on what is constructive and what is destructive.

    241. Oneliner says:

      We need a crowd funder to finance Indyref2.

    242. Republicofscotland says:

      “If i found out that the FM was breaking into Embra Zoo at night to have sex with zebras i would keep quiet about it until after Indy. Indy is the prize,”


      That’s not the point Sturgeon could be up to all manner of illegalities in her private life, it doesn’t matter, what matters and what the point is, is that the SNP are skint and Sturgeon talks a good game but is very unlikely to actually push for or hold an indyref after she’s reelected next year. That’s what the Rev’s been pointing out all along.

      Putting the skint bit aside for a moment, a glimmer of hope I think is the power grab which must surely force Sturgeon’s hand on independence to actually push for it, for the power grab severely interferes with our parliaments ability to function properly, and for the SNP to govern effectively.

    243. Breeks says:

      boris says:
      10 September, 2020 at 4:06 pm
      Mundell called for a debate on what new powers Scottish local government should be given by Holyrood in order to take greater control over their own affairs, saying:

      Ha ha ha. Believe it or not, I genuinely mis-read that Boris, and thought it said Murrell…

      Anybody know how to get steam back inside one’s ears? I jumped to a hasty conclusion I shouldn’t have. Lol

    244. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Juteman –

      Totally understand your being hacked off right now. Many of us are.

      I don’t speak for anyone else on here but I believe that being hacked-off is natural, nay inevitable, when you realise that something is very wrong but others keep telling you to ‘get over it’ or persuade you that you’re overreacting.

      Reading WOS has been difficult for a while now because we’re being told things that most of us simply don’t want to hear. But the most important ‘truths’ are the unpleasant ones we would prefer not to face and, like it or not, Stu has a knack for pointing them out before most are even aware of them.

      Those who are interested in Scottish independence as a kind of ‘hobby’ can’t take a lot of that so they go elsewhere. And that’s fair enough. But I’d rather read the truth, unpleasant as it undoubtedly is, than be patronised and gulled with a combination of circular reasoning and logical fallacies.

      Those guilty of mollycoddling disillusioned indy supporters know who they are – the backlash from their disappointed followers, when it comes, will be brutal.

    245. LeggyPeggy says:

      Tweet from Mr Malky’s twitter and as they say the Snp have walked right into this with the Hate crime bill ,

      Just wait till the Tory’s start about the Gra reforms leading up to the election in May 2021 .

    246. McDuff says:

      It’s the SNP who have lost their way.
      Why do you cling to a leader who has no intention of securing independence on her watch.

    247. Stan Broadwood says:

      Juteman 4.34pm

      “If i found out that the FM was breaking into Embra Zoo at night to have sex with zebras…”

      FFS Juteman,,, keep that one under your bunnet, otherwise the new loonies in charge of the SNP will be bringing that into law before you no it.

    248. Breastplate says:

      A good example of when criticism is due.

    249. Effijy says:

      Brian Taylor to retire from BBC Biased reporting in Scotland
      to concentrate on eating full time.

      I remember a video clip teaching SNP Bad to some new colleagues.
      May his 30 pieces of silver buy him a conscience!

      He could print a best seller if he turn in the Westminster controllers at the Quay.

    250. Stan Broadwood says:

      Why is Sturgeon not threatening to take the UK government to court over them breaking the law regarding an international treaty?

      Why are the EU the only body threatening the UK with legal action?

      Scotland should launch it’s on threat to Boris.

      We are getting dragged arse first through the mud by England, and all Sturgeon can say is,,,”This is absolutely terrible Boris, will you please stop”.

      What a waist of fresh air Sturgeon is.

    251. Allan Watson says:

      BBC Scotland is to stop broadcasting all of the First Minister’s coronavirus briefings.
      As of Monday, it is understood the corporation will decide whether to provide live television coverage of the press conferences based on their “editorial merit”.

      It would now appear that the state funded BBC will decide what the people of Scotland need to hear about the COVID pandemic.

      Jeez you couldn’t make this shit up.

      Take them to court

    252. callmedave says:

      Big Auntie news:

      EU sends Boris a billet-doux saying that he has to the end of the month or they go to court.

      Serious breach of international agreement and a threat to sustained peace in both parts of Ireland.

      SGov need to get into the mix here.

    253. Beaker says:

      @Juteman says:
      10 September, 2020 at 2:17 pm
      “What is really going on here?”

      It’s called constructive criticism and effective opposition, both of which are lacking in Holyrood. When a political party feels it can rule as it pleases, we have a serious problem. Look at Westminster. At least there there is the House of Lords to try and spike badly drafted legislation.

      Speaking of which, Michael Howard of all people is criticising the proposed amendment to the EU bill. He is the blueprint of a Tory MP. That speaks volumes.

      There are now MPs publicly speaking out – Roger Gale just been on the BBC. He’s politely said he doesn’t give a shit if he loses the whip.

      If Starmer can get enough Tory MPs to defect (41 I think?), could a vote of confidence be on the cards?

    254. Breeks says:

      Juteman says:
      10 September, 2020 at 4:34 pm

      The Tories always win because they are ruthless, and couldn’t give a shit about anything but the prize.

      Juteman, ruthless is good. I like ruthless.

      The Constitutional Lawyer I would send to UN’s International Court of Justice would be so ruthless his ruthlessness could blister paint, and he’d only be let out of Ruthless Jail strapped to a sack barrow like Hannibal Lector, for the sole purpose of ruthlessly denouncing the UK’s Parliamentary Sovereignty, and with equal ruthlessness, denouncing Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation as unlawful.

      What I can neither abide nor forgive, is the groundless, feckless, and fundamentally misguided capitulation of the SNP’s Government, which abandoned Scotland’s democratic and sovereign rejection of Brexit, which it should instead have been fashioned into a Scottish Constitutional Backstop. An interdict, similar to Northern Ireland’s successful strategy, should have been delivered to Westminster in the form of a constitutional ultimatum whereby Westminster had to choose between Brexit without Scotland, or Scotland without Brexit.

      In either circumstance, the Union would become untenable, because Brexit would itself destroy the 1707 Treaty of Union through one Nation’s unlawful subjugation of the other, or if Brexit was shelved, it would be shelved by recognising that Scotland enjoyed a sovereign veto inside the UK Union. Either conclusion would see the Union collapse.

      Ruthlessness is exactly what is required to bring this Union to an end, but it’s a commodity which the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon simply doesn’t command.

      Not only can I predict there won’t be a referendum next year, I can pretty much predict how the Tories will prevent it happening.

      I wish things were different Juteman, I really do. But what true supporter of Scottish Independence can review the past five years of squandered opportunity and feel satisfied Scotland’s constitutional interests have been well served? She has delivered NOTHING.

    255. liz says:

      Of course Murrell knows what’s going on.
      Do you really believe a minion like Ian McCann would have decided to sit on the alleged allegation against Alex S without permission?

      The way the SNP could have saved cash was to get rid of all those useless SPADS.

    256. robertknight says:

      Juteman @ 4:18

      “Some folk seem to have lost their way.”

      Not sure I agree.

      Some folk seem to have made a conscious decision to choose a different path, but continue to give the false impression that they remain on the same path the rest of us are on.

    257. Elmac says:

      Re Oneliner at 4:42 pm

      “We need a crowd funder to finance Indyref2.”

      You are probably correct but one thing is for sure, the SNP must not be anywhere near the control over the money.

    258. CameronB Brodie says:

      I blame the Lord Advocate, who appears to have been feeding the Justice Minister with shite legal advice.


    259. ahundredthidiot says:


      Cuties up on Netflix – membership cancelled.

    260. Bob Mack says:


      The Tories are already there to prevent a referendum. They are stripping Holyrood of the ability to offer that choice.
      Remove power to the level of a parish council and no one will see Holyrood as having the gravitas to challenge Central Government on anything.

      Add to this the SNP reluctance to take actions today and you have the perfect recipe for subjugation. Indefinitely.

    261. Robert Louis says:

      I don’t think I have ever felt so down about independence. England is merrily strutting down the road to hell in a handcart, forcibly dragging Scotland with it.

      Support for indy is higher than ever, people are demanding action, but we have none. Instead we have an SNP government happy to just sit and bleat about it all, while doing nothing. May 2021 will be too late. I just do not understand how folk in the SNP cannot seem to grasp that.

      I see folk on twitter moaning about how corrupt the London regime is, and wondering when people will realise. The fact is, people DO realise, but there is nothing they can do. OUR Scottish government will not act, and so the corrupt Tory regime in England is being given a free ticket to do whatever it wants to Scotland. The Tories probably cannot believe the fact that the First Minister has not called an independence referendum.

      Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP, the do-nothing party. Still waiting on a section 30. Pigs will fly sooner.

      It is not the tories who are failing Scotland, because they are just doing the greedy, selfish, racist, corrupt things Tories always do. No, the people letting down Scotland at the moment of its greatest need, is the SNP Scottish government.

      Nicola Sturgeon, Toom tabard. Away and run and hide, you utter, utter, careerist coward.

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Lord Advocate strike me as a stick on Tory, given his approach to the law. Scots will always be slaves of Westminster with legal opinion of such poor quality as the Lord Advocate’s (see GRA bollocks).

      Duke Law Journal

    263. twathater says:

      Juteman various, as a long term person on WOS why do you find it necessary to ridicule STU’S viable questions of where the RING FENCED indy ref money is , as he has pointed out to other commenters the post is NOT about the SNP receiving short money as ALL the britnat parties receive it and that IS the process of wm

      He is highlighting the appearance or probability that the SNP as an organisation are skint based on the premise that membership is down and therefore membership contributions are down as well , he is also comparing contributions from outsiders which are woeful compared to other parties and asking ARE there reasons behind it and what these reasons are

      Unlike you I am NOT prepared to vote just for a yellow rosette, we have had enough of voting for donkeys with a coloured ribbon no matter what colour the ribbon is

      I personally desperately want independence but I don’t want a government that ignores and denigrates voters and is mired in corruption and broken promises SURELY we have had enough of that , is THAT not why we need to be independent

      There are SO MANY things that I want for Scotland and it’s people but it certainly isn’t, welcome to the new boss and their promises , same as the old boss and their promises , if you are willing to accept that don’t complain when people don’t agree with you

    264. Juteman says:

      We voted No by 55 to 45 in 2014. How on earth could we do anything until the polls swung in our favour? Blaming the SNP for the public voting No is crazy. Blame the real enemy.
      Now the polls have turned in our favour is the time for action. I agree that we have a go at the SNP if nothing happens in the next year, but why has Wings been doing it for the last few years?
      I’m not a member of the SNP, just a realist that is at breaking point like most other Indy supporters.

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      If Scotland is serious about self-determination, it will need to stop self harming itself through illiberal and illogical legal practice, such as rejecting Natural Law and the principle of natural rights (see Brexit and GRA amendments).

      Tort Actions for Hate Speech and the First Amendment: Reconceptualizing the Competing Interests

    266. twathater says:

      Me I forgot , thanks Maggie C for your links , and Breeks mair greeeeaaat posts , I to also want a RUTHLESS

    267. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, It’s Westminster who has rejected Natural Law, but the Scottish government are of the same legal school of thought, apparently.

    268. twathater says:

      @ juteman 6.02pm can you point out to me how the SNP have been selling and EDUCATING NO voters on the benefits of independence since 2014, ANY AND ALL information and education has came from indy supporters and bloggers

    269. Lizg says:

      Robert Graham @ yesterday re the Butchers Apron..
      Apologies that it took so long to get back to you Robert 🙂
      Edinburgh Castle I was right about, it is primarily a military base of the British Army and Historic Scotland are only charged ( albeit from Scottish Ministers ) with the care of it as a Monument and are not in “control” of it in any meaningful way, except in relation to any potential damage to it or the maintenance of it.
      Stirling Castle is more of a grey area in that respect but it is still classed as a Royal Castle, and , as we know to our cost, the Royal part at the moment means U.K. Royal, and the Butchers Apron is what’s flown for that……
      The remit to Historic Scotland is the same across all their sites, and while Scotland is in the Union only the Scottish Ministers could take steps to remove or reposition the Jack if flown on them.
      Which would be seen as a political move and IMO right up the street of the British Nationalists, enabling them to start a stushie over flags like they do in N.Ireland.
      So I’d caution against any of us making a thing of it Robert.
      There is no question it will be removed when we leave and at that point in time there will be no doubt that it might be returned at the whim of supplicant politicians,so I for one can wait… in the
      sure knowledge that while it irritates me now taking it down then will be a statement made that’s a final word on the thing…..
      Draw out a conflict over it now and we could finish up with an agreement made ” above our pay
      grade ” to humour those who feel it’s a part of their culture having to have sight of the thing in and
      around Scotland going forwards.
      It seems to me, it’s a subject best kept on the back burner till the time is right to “”Flambé “” it 🙂
      Food labelling is of course a different matter and one we shouldn’t let slide but for now I’d rather leave the British Nationalists to pitch a fit over Scotlands Saltire and be totally chilled and quietly amused about them trying to rehabilitate the Jack away from it’s Knuckle Dragging connections….

    270. CameronB Brodie says:

      I mean, which cretin thought it legally sound to subordinate the legal identity of women to conform with men’s interests?

      Sexual health,
      human rights and
      the law

    271. bipod says:

      Sorry robbo, the video may be old but his point still stands. The only difference between then and now is that we are still using those same pcr tests, but on a much more massive scale, potentially producing (very likely considering the sheer number of tests we are doing now, and are being planned by bojos “moonshot”) an artificial “second wave”. Do you think that Jason still thinks the tests are a “bit rubbish” or do you think saint nicola has gave him a talking too?

      You seen to think me and donald trump are on the same side of this debate. We are not he also supports unscientific useless lockdowns and mask wearing, he is with the covid bedwetters like you, not me.

      Saint nicola was bouncing off the walls at her press conference on tuesday. She was so excited to tell us all about the statistically insignificant three deaths like it was the start of a new wave of deaths (hasn’t been followed up in the past few days) and we should all be pissing ourselves. She loves to wag her finger at the masses and issue recriminations, its their fault her perfect zero covid plan hasn’t worked not hers obviously. In the meantime she has turned this country into a authoritarian hell hole, completely wrecked the economy and caused more damage than covid ever could to the health and well being of the people.

      btw how is the situation in sweden? Has the health system there collapsed yet?

    272. CameronB Brodie says:

      Trump not sufficiently undemocratic enough for you?

      Health Systems & Reform, Volume 2, 2016 – Issue 1: Prince Mahidol Award Conference 2016: Priority Setting for Universal Health Coverage

      The International Right to Health: What Does It Mean in Legal Practice and How Can It Affect Priority Setting for Universal Health Coverage?

    273. Republicofscotland says:

      Looks like the Assange fit up has been paused till Monday so his legal team can get a Covid-19 test.

    274. Skip_NC says:

      Bipod, did I read your post correctly? That Donald Trump supports lockdowns and mask wearing? My impression, sitting here in North Carolina is that is quite simply not the case. I am curious why you think otherwise.

      Joe Biden had been running campaign ads here in the last week or two about his plan for a national mask mandate. His latest ads in NC are on jobs recovery – another area where he can attack Trump for his failure to keep promises.

    275. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t want folk to get the wrong impression of me, as I’m equally critical of the radical left as I am of the radical right. I try to remain balanced in outlook, but I draw the line when political prejudice endangers my continued existence and well-being.

      Advancing the Right to Health: The Vital Role of Law

    276. bipod says:

      Thats funny cameron. I want the rights and liberities that have been stolen from us during this virus panic returned. Its you who thinks that they are a price worth paying because of some vague precautionary notion.

    277. CameronB Brodie says:

      You appear to be someone who simply doesn’t understand how equality in law works.

      Interpreting the International Right to Health in a Human Rights-Based Approach to Health

    278. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m all ears if you have a legal sound argument supporting it. But the radical right are full of shite, so I’ll not be holding my breath.

      The Lancet Commission on Global Health Law: How Law Can Advance The Right To Health

    279. Famous15 says:

      BIpod in a very limited and specific way this vague precautionary notion of avoiding getting dead spread by Saint Nicola as she bounces off the walls is not statistically significant.

      One thing is for sure Benefice Bipod the Bountiful is I will stay away from the edge to avoid falling into interstellar space from this wonderful flat earth.

      Polio and chickenpox is rife and vaccines are a lie. Fact!

    280. Effijy says:

      The Tories Today-

      Lead by a bungling buffoon who is a pathological liar, adulterer, and racist.

      A government that has been completely incompetent with the Covid Crisis.

      United Nations law breakers over the Chagos islands.

      EU law breakers over the Brexit agreement.

      Delivered record breaking levels of UK poverty in the 21st century.

      Increased women’s pension age by 7 years as retirement approached

      Broke the Purda at the Indy Ref.

      Regularly breaks the Electoral Commission rules.

      Uses Dark Money for political campaigning.

      Awards Billions in contracts to Tory supporting campaigns.

      These moral criminals are ready to leave the worlds biggest trading market,
      The EU and disenfranchise the US due to their Irish Good Friday agreement.

      It looks like the UK will only be able to trade with UK Tory supporting companies and PapuaNew Guinea.

      PS I think Michael Gove could crawl under a snake’s belly wearing a Top Hat.

    281. CameronB Brodie says:

      Where did the Lord Advocate gain is legal qualification, a cereal box?

      If the Scottish government does not seek alternative legal advice as a matter of extreme urgency, all hope for Scottish culture and democracy will be lost. Subjugated by the cultural demands of right-wing, populist, English nationalism, and constitutional jurisprudence that belongs on the 18th century.


    282. Famous15 says:

      Sorry Bipod for taking the pish out of you. But you did ask for it as you flew over the cuckoos nest.

    283. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      10 September, 2020 at 6:27 pm
      Sorry robbo, the video may be old but his point still stands. The only difference between then and now is that we are still using those same pcr tests, but on a much more massive scale, potentially producing (very likely considering the sheer number of tests we are doing now, and are being planned by bojos “moonshot”) an artificial “second wave”. Do you think that Jason still thinks the tests are a “bit rubbish” or do you think saint nicola has gave him a talking too?


      Bollocks.The arse that clipped that vid is what’s wrong with this crisis. Dickheads giving conflicting stories.

      Waken up man.The cases are rising all over the place across the world. Only a few countries have got a handle on this , New Zealand and South Korea to name two. Once flu season starts we’re gonna be in right mess across the world if people don’t get a grip. This is not the 12th century (plague) or the 20th century(spanish flu) which is quite ironic cos patient zero was an American! We’re supposed to have learnt things about viruses
      and bacterium’s- no?
      Tell yir pal DT before he talks shite again and b4 the men in white coats come in. I’m having my doubts they’ll even be an election now after yesterday . Trump thinks he rules the US,he’s in for a big shock soon IMHO.His actions cost US life’s.

      Sweden ffs. Don’t make me laugh.The people have a different mentality there regards social distancing ,protecting themselves. They still had partial lock-downs.

      We have couple million yoons that couldnae spell mask and Stan Broadwood ffs.

      Sweden is about 5-6 times the size of Scotland and even more sparsely populated than us albeit double the population . They have better health system than UK and most of Europe.The economy in Sweden has not benefited much and they have approx 6000 reported deaths.
      Good panacea? maybe not so much i think.

    284. Elmac says:

      The split in the independence community is widening. Not because any of us have different goals, but because a large proportion of the yes voters have lost trust in NS and the current hierarchy of the SNP. We seem to have coalesced into our respective blogs, Wings for those who have opened their eyes, and WGD etc for those with a white stick. A sad state of affairs which will last only until the inevitable implosion of the SNP as it currently stands. If that occurs after the point of no escape it will go down as one of the biggest own goals inflicted by a corrupt, I’m alright Jack, few on a nation.

      The current leadership of the SNP and their place people have to go, and go like tomorrow, if we are going to have a decent democratic future in a decent country. If that does not happen very shortly we need key SNP figures to break ranks and create a new party whose sole goal is independence or people like AS to step up to the plate again.

      NS, Murrell and their cronies have infested the SNP. The last thing they want is to upset the gravy train and lose their spot in the limelight. They will not go willingly. However, as I have said a few times on here, cut off the cash and force the issue. Stop donating to the SNP coffers, Cut up your membership cards and stop your direct debits. Tell them normal service will only be resumed when they clean out their filthy stable.

    285. Joe says:


      Just thought id say I appreciate your posts. Thanks for the effort. Im sure others do too.

    286. Dan says:

      @Effigy at 7.17pm

      They may give the appearance of bungling buffoonery and incompetence, but it’s unlikely that is the case. It’s far more likely everything will be have been calculated and gamed out to advance their overall objectives.

    287. PacMan says:

      re. Leitch’s comments about virus testing being a bit rubbish.

      Current testing is picking up people affected by the virus but that it is also picking dead virus particles and therefore giving a positive result i.e. a false positive. It means that even though people are being tested as positive they don’t have the virus because the virus is picking up these dead particles from a past infection.

      This isn’t something new or specific to Scottish virus testing. I had read about it a few weeks ago. I can’t find the specific article but I found this article from Slashdot in May which mentioned this:

      Recovered COVID-19 Patients Test Positive But Not Infectious, Data Finds – May 20, 2020

      People who recover from COVID-19 but test positive for the virus again days or weeks later are not shedding viral particles and are not infectious, according to data released Tuesday by the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The so-called “re-positive” cases have raised fears that an infection with the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, could “reactivate” in recovered patients or that recovering from the infection may fail to produce even short-lived immunity, allowing patients to immediately become re-infected if they are exposed. The new data from Korea should ease those concerns.

      KCDC researchers examined 285 cases that had previously recovered from COVID-19 but then tested positive again. The patients tested positive again anywhere from one to 37 days after recovering from their first infection and being discharged from isolation. The average time to a second positive was about 14 days. Of those cases, researchers checked for symptoms in 284 of them. They found that 126 (about 48 percent) did indeed have symptoms related to COVID-19. But none of them seemed to have spread the infection. KCDC investigated 790 people who had close contact with the 285 cases and found that none of them had been infected by the “re-positive” cases. Crucially, additional testing of 108 “re-positive” cases found that none of them were shedding infectious virus.

      I had mentioned previously that mass testing and a track and trace program is required to keep the virus under control. With Leitch’s comments bring into light, a more effective means of testing is required as well.

      While on the subject, airport testing does not work at the moment because it means that there is period where the virus is incubating and doesn’t get picked up by testing. That means that when somebody flies in and takes a test at an airport, they can have a negative result but in a day or two, the virus becomes active and they become infected.

      Rather than spending who knows much on vaccines that are years if not decades away, they need to develop tests that are far more accurate than current ones and can give quick test results. There also needs to be investment to put in the infrastructure to do this on the scale required. Of course the UK government is doing that but they throwing money at the private sector who to put it mildly, are proving to be too inefficient and expensive to do it.

    288. robertknight says:

      Lizg @ 6:16

      British Army is at both Edinburgh and Stirling castles. Therefore the Union Flag, in 5:4 ratio, is flown, irrespective of Historic Environment Scotland; who are merely the caretaker/Clark of Works and tour guides.

      These days you’re only guaranteed to see a Union Flag flying on UK Flag Days, even though you’d think they’d be flying every day, given the Army presence. (Perhaps it’s a cost saving exercise – even a good quality flag when wet will whip the seam furthest from the hoist to ribbons in a reasonable breeze). I was in Stirling and Edinburgh yesterday and couldn’t see a Union Flag at either. (Stirling Castle is the HQ of Balaklava Company, The Argyll and Sunderland Highlanders – though I can’t remember the last time I saw a squaddie within its wall. Probably because they’re over at Redford).

    289. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Just thought id say I appreciate your posts. Thanks for the effort. Im sure others do too.”

      The radical right just can’t stop themselves skittering all over the place. This from someone who tried to convince us the Nazis weren’t that bad.

    290. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Joe (7.40) –

      Good to see you popping back.

      And yes, you’re right, others do appreciate bipod’s efforts.


    291. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Would you like a spoon so can can sup Joe and biopod’s right wing populism more easily?

      Do you have a specific objection to ethical rationalism and critical legal theory? Can you justify a rejection of global health law?

    292. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Out of consideration for others who are tired of our jousting, I am ignoring you.

      Please don’t take it personally.


    293. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Suite yourself, and I hope you don’t take it personally, but you don’t strike me as being particularly politically astute.

      Making the Right to Health a Reality :
      Legal Strategies for Effective Implementation

      Commonwealth Law Conference
      London September 2005

    294. Breastplate says:

      Ian B,
      The rhetoric and sensationalism regarding SARS CoV2 has abated somewhat which I’m glad of.
      More and more people are realising that the descendants of Chicken Little may actually be talking shite.
      The sky isn’t falling and we’re not all going to die.

      Unfortunately, there are those that have still to come to grips with the reality and their disappointment that this coronavirus has only a 0.6% mortality rate as opposed to the 30% that was being bandied about by the doom sayers on here.

    295. Helen Yates says:

      Just when I thought this day couldn’t get any worse, think I’ll have a lie down, ma brain hurts.

    296. Pete says:

      Love your posts.
      Don’t lose heart.
      There are lots of us who love freedom and think that all this authoritarianism is going to go belly up.
      Living life is more important than cowering indoors and venturing out in a muzzled state.
      Was at the Freedom Rally in Falkirk but couldn’t make Edinburgh.

    297. CameronB Brodie says:

      You appear to take the same view of global health law as Westminster.

      The human right to health and the struggle for recognition


      Persistent health inequalities exist globally, affecting high-income countries and blighting the developing world. Health inequalities currently are one of the greatest challenges facing realisation of the human right to health.

      This article argues that the struggle for the right to health in the face of such inequalities requires embracing three critical considerations: redistribution, representation, and recognition. While the analysis of the right to health has been formulated predominantly around theories of distributive justice, I suggest that a more normatively compelling account will link the politics of economic redistribution to the politics of sociocultural recognition.

      A recognition approach, which views rights claims as grounded on the vulnerability of the human condition, can show how rights are emergent in political action and that the ability to claim and exercise the human right to health is contingent upon recognition of diverse sociopolitical statuses. From this perspective, there are no ‘neutral’ constructions of the rights-bearing subject and conflict between different political framings of the right to health is a consequence of the struggle for recognition.

      This theme is illustrated by comparing conservative, affirmative, and transformative processes of recognition in the struggle for access to essential antiretroviral medicines by South Africa’s Treatment Action Campaign.

    298. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Oki doki

      So if its 0.6 % fatality ,that means possible 2 million Americans must die before its we gotcha scenario?

      Some strange folk on here I tell you.

    299. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breastplate (9.01) –

      It’s just a pity that the rhetoric and sensationalism hasn’t abated inside the Scottish Parliament.

      I saw a hefty chunk of FMQs today (if that’s what it was, and not some special session) and had to turn it off eventually because they spoke of nothing else. Literally. There is nothing else worthy of Scottish parliamentarians’ attention right now?

      But from what I did hear there was a feeling that resistance to NS’s decrees/threats and the irrational, ever-shifting ‘advice’ is starting to grow. But maybe that was just me?

    300. cynicalHighlander says:


      Where are you getting the 0.6% deathrate from Bipod?

    301. J Galt says:


      The problem is that they still have the majority bamboozled.

      I honestly believe if Nicola got up to her podium and announced the wee coronaviruses couldn’t operate below a height of 4 feet you’d see half the population going about on their hands and knees, and the knee pad manufacturers would be coining it in – the SNP would even sell you a Saltire themed pair!

    302. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Oh and for Scotland that would be around 33,000 must die.

      That’s nice eh. Thanks very much.Nice to know that fellow indy supporters have such- that’s the way it is.

    303. Bob Mack says:

      @Ayrshire Bob,

      I know. They’re idiots. The real McCoy!!

    304. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Well Bob, think I will buy a bungalow in the woods.I would hate to think I was living next to a fellow who would rather I possibly die a horrible death just to prove a fatality rate below 1 is great when we could drive it down to near zero as possible. This is 2020 and people still think like a “I’m alright jack” is beyond me.

      Think I’m done here. Good luck!

    305. Republicofscotland says:

      Evening news reporting that the EU has given Johnson three weeks to back down on breaking Brexit agreement.

    306. Ian Brotherhood says:

      More coverage – extraordinarily detailed – of the Assange hearing, from Craig Murray:

    307. bipod says:


      Covid IFR isn’t anywhere near the 1%~3% that was estimated at th start of this “crisis”. With the introduction of mass testing the IFR is likey to decrease even further from the 0.3% ~ 0.4% estimated in the article above as they are finding many more asymptomatic cases. Iceland which has done more per captia testing than anywhere else predicts an IFR of 0.16%. Thats all in the swine flu range, very disappointing I know.

      Does anyone remember the great swine flu lockdown.

    308. Balaaargh says:

      A lot of commenters on here showing how easily led they are by pseudo-libertarian populist propaganda.

      COVID Mortality is only one aspect of the virus. For every death, there are many more who are admitted to hospital daily. Of those, some will have to go on ventilators. And you don’t go in for a wee checkup and sent home, you’re taking a bed and dedicated resources for days or weeks at a time. The drop in deaths is not just the result of people following social distancing at the beginning but also doctors and nurses being able to improve the treatment process once they had time to study it.

      And what we know about the long term effects is still very little. Long COVID has been identified where even previously young, fit, and healthy people are suffering the effects of the virus months later. This virus blocks the body’s ability to take oxygen from the lungs into your blood stream leading to serious cardiac problems in ALL age groups. We are a nation with one of the highest rates of heart disease, we bloody well should be scared enough to do something!

      The “frequent” rule changes are because, despite some on here, we do NOT live in an authoritarian regime like China where lockdown was enforced much more strictly for much longer. While they may have questions to answer about how many actually died, Wuhan is now case-free and recently celebrated with a huge water festival attended by thousands.

      If you find it too difficult to adjust to the SG trying to drip feed some semblance of normality at a rate we can trade off against our ability to deliver a successful track and trace scheme then maybe stick to the headlines which haven’t changed – 2 metre distance and wear a mask in indoor public spaces. Dare I say it, the UK message of “Hands, Face, Space” should be easy enough for you to remember.

    309. CameronB Brodie says:

      I pishing myself laughing at all those who think their judgement is superior to international law. Oh, wait,. That’s what’s preventing Scots from accessing their human rights. So it’s not funny at all.

    310. bipod says:


      Another person that thinks lockdown doesn’t have any consequences. What do you think of the 16,000 deaths in England caused by lockdown at the start of this?

    311. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      For Pete, Joe and Bipod.

      They are you, they are.

    312. Beaker says:

      Regarding flags, they tend to get flown on public buildings certain occasions such as Remembrance Sunday etc. As pointed out cost if a factor as flags are not cheap. There’s probably a whole pile of health and safety shit as well these days.

      In 1995 I was stuck high up on Norwich Cathedral with someone else on top of the Castle trying to simultaneously raise flags for a flypast. Here’s me up a small and high platform with this thing which would have covered a double bed, and it was pissing down with rain and windy. Even had a bloody audience of tourists. The flypast was heard but not see, so we were the entertainment…

    313. Alec Lomax says:


    314. cirsium says:

      @Juteman, 6.02

      We voted No by 55 to 45 in 2014. How on earth could we do anything until the polls swung in our favour?

      The polls swung from the low 30s to the mid-40s due to the activity of the campaign for the indyref fixed for 18 September 2014. What we’ve got at present is mandate farming (thanks Dan, 2.43).

      As Breastplate (2.37) said
      So where the fuck is our independence referendum that we voted for?
      Why do we not have a date yet?
      And who the fuck is holding it up?

    315. Hatuey says:

      Today we were given another embarrassing example of ScotGov imposing the British Coronavirus strategy which, despite the theatrics, they’ve been imposing since the start – with timing the only measurable difference. I’m talking, of course, about the ‘rule of 6’ hatched by Boris.

      On ‘herd immunity’, on masks, testing, schools, everything, ScotGov has been highly disciplined when it comes to carrying out orders from Westminster. And it’s probably appropriate that this should be discussed here, in the context of the British Government payroll.

      Was it a condition that ScotGov followed the British Government line on Corona or face being denied much-needed emergency funds? If so, why weren’t we told? And, If true, it could have been included in a compelling argument for Independence (instead we get the usual grandstanding and subterfuge).

      Proof of the Corona pudding can be found in the data and trends and if you look closely you’ll see that Scotland has suffered an entirely proportionate number of infections and deaths relative to the UK as a whole. Factor in population density and you could probably make a case for saying Scotland has had it worse.

      They can shove their App. Don’t get me wrong, an App is a potentially useful tool in the fight against Corona. I simply refuse to do one single thing to assist them (the SNP) in any way.

    316. cynicalHighlander says:


      World 28,247,847 total infections +232,702 New Cases 911,691 Deaths +4,391Today deaths

      28million infections is around the 3% mark of 9million deaths yet you were stating 0.6% So where is that figure from space?

    317. cynicalHighlander says:

      Appology .9 million deaths

    318. mike cassidy says:

      The bit bipod didn’t mention

      Crucially, however, the study says there would almost certainly have been far a greater number of overall fatalities had restrictions not been put in place and the coronavirus outbreak allowed to run wild throughout the population.

      It also suggests that 2,500 deaths may have been prevented because of healthier lifestyles, reduced road accidents and fewer infections during the shutdown.

    319. Breastplate says:

      Cynical Highlander,
      The WHO posted 0.6% mortality rate a fortnight ago.

    320. Joe says:


      Thanks Ian


      I wont be active on wings much at all now from now on. Ive got nothing positive to add to the indy debate, the average voter, or the Scottish political scene as a whole and right now id rather vote Tory than for the major ‘indy’ party. So that’s that.

      But i have a throwaway profile on that I would be happy to argue other non-indy specific issues with anybody who is up for it. Joe_Macbloggs.

    321. Breastplate says:

      Ayrshire Bob,
      You said “ Oh and for Scotland that would be around 33,000 must die.”

      No Bob, if you can manage to engage your tiny brain, it does not mean that. It means that it is nowhere near as scary a virus as was made out and if you are concerned that you are in a high risk category then you should self isolate.
      It does not mean the whole fucking country has to isolate with you.

    322. bipod says:


      I didn’t quote 0.6%, I quoted lower from the link I shared with you. But if you don’t want to accept that link there are many others available, from the CDC and other health organisations around the world predict a IFR in that range. I believe the 0.6% figure comes from a WHO report actually.

      You know as well as I do that there have been many more than 28 million infections around the world. That is why the IFR is coming down so rapidly, mass testing is finding many more cases that are not symptomatic.

    323. CameronB Brodie says:

      Do you still hold views that are anti-Semitic?

    324. Breastplate says:

      Cynical Highlander,
      Ffs, how many times does it have to be said that total infections are from people who have been tested and found positive. It does not count people who have or had the virus without a test.

      Your equation is wrong.

    325. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just as a wee note for those following the ‘harassment committee’ business, this is the link that MaggieC has been using to keep us abreast of what’s happening – it shows the responses from those who have been asked by the committee to provide further evidence following their appearances (which means, basically, that the committee wasn’t happy with what they said in person).

      I’m drawing attention to this because there are other tabs on the scotgov site with very similar info but it’s as well we’re all on the same page (if, indeed, we are in agreement that this is the best place to get updates?) –

    326. Joe says:


      Join me and find out. Adios o7

    327. Pete Barton says:

      Oh so now this a political virus now, mm?

      So you won’t use the app as it’s ‘SNP’?

      I Accuse your point of view as being rather narrow, and biased.

      If the Scottish government decide (hopefully free of political swing)

      AND,using the medical and financial advice to try to do the right thing, and protect its citizens, even allowing for some alignment where sensible..with the UK Government..

      Then you wouldn’t use the internationally big tech already developed app..even if we both rightly distrust data security…

      Cos you don’t like it coz it’s ‘SNP’ ?

      Help me Rhondda..

    328. Ian Brotherhood says:

      CamB’s 10.51 comment is the closest I’ve ever seen on this site to ‘So when did you stop beating your wife?’

      Shameful stuff.

    329. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      If I though you were competent to judge me I might take more notice of your opinion. So away and lean some legal philosophy.

    330. Stan Broadwood says:

      Pete Barton 11.14 pm

      What if you don’t have a mobile phone,,,how do you get this app???

    331. susanXX says:

      I think we need to strip away the personal popularity politics. The SNP has gone downhill since it went in for American style popularity contests. Take away NS “popularity” and what exactly do we see? An SNP focused on authoritarian, social engineering projects and not on independence. Can I vote for that? In all honesty probably not.

    332. Beaker says:

      Hatuey it’s not a fucking SNP app. Try reading up, all the information is in the public domain.
      Shove it on your phone. You might just help save someone’s life.

      I’ve just installed it. Took 5 minutes. Hasn’t melted my brain yet with “I love Nicola Sturgeon” messages.


      Hope it’s not like that fucking Marmite advert 🙂

    333. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve been knocking my pan in to articulate a legal approach towards social emancipation, that was recommended to me by the Royal Town Planning Institute. So I’m just getting a bit cheesed off with indy supporters who appear keen to rubbish my opinion, and support of the radical right instead.

      Social and Economic Rights
      International IDEA Constitution-Building Primer 9

    334. Beaker says:

      @Stan Broadwood says:
      10 September, 2020 at 11:39 pm
      “What if you don’t have a mobile phone,,,how do you get this app???”

      Ahem, it’s an application designed for a fucking smartPHONE. What part of this do you find hard to understand?

    335. Stan Broadwood says:

      I will not be downloading Nicola’s Virus app.

      She has ignored my requests for a second Independence referendum for six years,,, so her request for me to download her app will be royally ignored,,,for six years if necessary.

    336. Stan Broadwood says:


      It was a tongue in cheek remark.

      Don’t be so fuckin cheeky ya fuckin wanker.

    337. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Cbb and IanB – stop replying to each other!

    338. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Mr/mrs bipod @1021pm

      Oh dear. I thought 25,000 was a bigger number than 16,000, no?

    339. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Fine by me but I’m not happy to see the radical right getting encouragement from alleged socialist.

    340. cynicalHighlander says:


      Cynical Highlander,
      Ffs, how many times does it have to be said that total infections are from people who have been tested and found positive. It does not count people who have or had the virus without a test.

      Your equation is wrong.

      So how many would that be 10,100,1000 or is it more let’s bring the potential severity down to suit our agenda?

    341. Stan Broadwood says:

      Wings police officer arrives on scene.

      He decides who talks and who doesn’t.

      You get some right uppity bastards on this site.

      Brian toon,,, what the fuck has it got to do with you regarding who talks to who???

    342. AWoLsco says:

      Not so long ago, I was in conversation with my mentor and confidant, the late(sadly) Sir ‘Jock’ Strap…air vice-marshal of the RAF( Betty Windsor’s flying club)…and, potentially, air marshal of an independent Scotland’s Air Force….or Lift-Wappen as he preferred to refer to that, as yet, imaginary, aerial force, dedicated solely to the defence of our hills and glens, haughs and uplands, our mosses, lochs and settlements from the most humble shieling to the greatest urban sprawl.
      On this Sir jock was at his most uncompromising and utterly resolute.
      His eyes flashed with an almost demonic lustre when he passionately declared……”That Scotsmen have given of their lives for every Tom, Dick and Harry under the sun….but never for themselves.”
      “So now is the time for change, and a more selfish outlook?” I ventured to suggest to Sir Jock.
      Banging his whisky glass on the table, eyes ablaze with fanaticism….he said,,,,,You’ve got it laddie ( he always called me laddie, even though I was 61 and 3/4 years old)
      “Independence, along with deportation of non-indigenes is the only way to save the Scottish nation.” was his last declaration that night…..although on his way to bed,while taking my leave, Sir Jock muttered something about Salmond and Sturgeon being commies.
      I will say more about this later.

    343. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Mr/mrs Breastplate

      Now I’m not sure exactly when we’re finally to give this IFR of 0.6 ie- when its applied. So basing it at say feb 21 ( 1 year) and everyone were to be infected in Scotland to achieve herd immunity 100%. It would mean 5.5 mil x 0.6 % = 33,000. So would you think that was acceptable? No?

      No ,me neither.

      Is my brain engaged now,or when do I apply final IFR ?

    344. Pete Barton says:

      Stan, watch the telly man

    345. CameronB Brodie says:

      If the Scottish government is determined to undermine the rule-of-law (see GRA amendments), how can we expect them to defend Scotland from Westminster?

      The European Journal of International Law Vol. 19 no. 4 © EJIL 2008; all rights reserved
      Human Rights, International
      Economic Law and
      ‘ Constitutional Justice ’

    346. Pete Barton says:

      There are far too many petty disrupters here for most folks’ liking.

      This is place for exchange of ideas, not insults.

      77th apart, for god’s sake people act your age, not your shoe size!

    347. cynicalHighlander says:

      Pete Barton

      How does UDI sound giving latest shenanigans from Westminster?

    348. CameronB Brodie says:

      There is plentiful law with which Scotland could defend itself with, but our government appear to view the law in the same way as Westminster. British constitutional practice is not compatible with international human rights law, and will not liberate Scotland from the clutches of English Torydum.

      Review of European Community & International Environmental Law 20 (2) 2011
      The Implicit Constitutional Right to Live in a Healthy Environment

    349. Stan Broadwood says:

      Far too many chiefs on this site,,,all wanting to take to he moral high ground.

      I think you lot have been away from the Wee Ginger Dug website for too long,,, it’s time you lot returned there.

      Are you listening Mr Barton and Mr Toon.

    350. Stan Broadwood says:

      And what is it with these Sturgeon fanatics, whenever they run out of things to insult you with,,,they turn to old faithful,,,the 77th bla, bla, bla.

      So fuckin original.

      The Wee Ginger man is calling you,,, cheerio.

    351. Ronald Fraser says:

      The National,

      “Tomorrow’s front page: BBC Scotland now refusing to show all of First Minister’s virus briefings after caving in to Scottish Tories”

      Baroness Davidson still pulling the strings at Pacific Quay it seems.

    352. leither says:

      some of my best friends are virus apps…….

    353. Hatuey says:

      It’s Nicola’s App if it’s a success. If it fails – which of course would be the fault of young people or those who go to pubs – it’s Scotland’s App.

      Maybe they’ll make it a law and we’ll need to download it… they did that with face masks (after initially lying and telling us they were pointless).

      Some people here seem to struggle with it, just as others struggled before with the idea that Blair wasn’t going to take “us” to a socialist promised land, but getting rid of these leeches is the biggest step we could take towards independence.

    354. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Stan Broadwood says:
      10 September, 2020 at 11:59 pm

      “Wings police officer arrives on scene.

      He decides who talks and who doesn’t.

      You get some right uppity bastards on this site.

      Brian toon,,, what the fuck has it got to do with you regarding who talks to who???”

      Eff off – you know nothing. !anB and CBB are the best of pals in real life.

    355. Meg merrilees says:

      Well if Boris and co go through with their Internal market bill and revised Withdrawal Agreement then I think the 1707, preciousssss Union will be over and we should just declare Independence.!

      The joke is that if the Withdrawal Agreement goes through as already agreed, they are breaching the terms of the Union i.e. that all ports will be treated equally within the UK. ( and that’s before we even discuss Rishi Sunak’s plans for Free Ports). By revoking the current agreement and altering it they are knowIngly breaking International Law.
      They are showing Perfidious England in all its naked ugliness and if they no longer respect International law then why should we?

      Lets just declare Independence and be done with it.
      Three cheers for Boris the giver of Independence.

      And all this in the week when we are supposed to stand up, doff our caps and sing ‘Land of
      No Hope and Glory’ and ‘No Rules Britannia’ meanwhile BBC Scotland has boycotted the First Minister?????

      We live in interesting times.

    356. twathater says:

      Ah leither or is it Schrodinger you just can’t stay away , what happened to the early election scenario and the list party idea , I bet you never pushed that on WGD

    357. Lukas Scholts says:

      “77th apart, for god’s sake people act your age, not your shoe size!“

      He couldn’t possibly know what size our feet are…

    358. stuart mctavish says:

      One of the things this article demonstrates is that, unless he is also special advisor to one of the MSPs, Peter Murrel is not an employee, contractor, consultant, or even preferred subbie of the Scottish Government so, as intriguing as his ignorance of Salmond’s admitted infidelity may be, the committee appears to be acting way beyond its jurisdiction in treating him as its prime scapegoat.

      Accordingly, perhaps his next response should be something along the lines of:
      As private individual, to ask the committee to release all their own notes, emails, whats app data, private session recordings, etc. (especially in connection with any legal advice they have taken at the public expense) detailing how they managed to jump from investigating criminality in the civil service to scapegoating a private individual.
      As Chief executive of SNP, to ask the committee to investigate why, given the number of SNP affiliated persons involved, the Scottish government did not inform him of the matter 6 years ago..
      As current resident of Bute House, to ask the committee to investigate the existence, location and viewing rights of known and/or secret ‘friendly’ government recording devices in and around the property

    359. brian lucey says:

      As the UK government shows its two fingers to international law, Scotland’s leading (supposedly) pro independence blog tears chunks out of the prospects for Scottish independence. Instead of… shutting up and watching the collapse.
      If wings had been subverted to a deep state UK op to derail Scottish independence, who could now tell?

    360. Breeks says:

      Joanna Cherry being right again, but this isn’t new Joanna. The Westminster Government has been building up it’s new colonial premises in Edinburgh specifically to facilitate a takeover of Scotland’s devolved powers. Everyone paying attention has seen this coming for a long time.

      I fear we are wasting time in a predicament which is not static, but steadily getting worse, and what worries me is our tepid response. We are still seeing myopic litigation, which doesn’t even come from Government, as ‘radical’. It’s not radical enough, not by a country mile!

      We need constitutional litigation, a test case put before the UN International Court of Justice! Scotland’s Brexit subjugation is unconstitutional, undemocratic, and unlawful. Why are we still dawdling in pursuit of domestic litigation over Section 30??? We must up the ante. Now is the time. We must blow Scotland’s colonial subjugation up into an International Incident that is put before the International Court of Justice at the UN, and also before the Council of Europe. Why in God’s name would we not do this??? What criminal negligence is stopping us?

      We are amateurs against pros, and I’m heartily sick of it.

    361. Rm says:

      66 percent of Scots wanted to stay in Europe why didn’t the SNP government not fight for them, don’t the SNP realise that should have been end of union right there and then, if they can’t or won’t do what the Scottish people want then another party or persons might put up a better fight.

    362. Oneliner says:

      Gordon Brown out of the formaldehyde early this morning – currently dispensing his antiquarian clichés on Good Morning Britain.

    363. Margaret E says:

      Tepid response? You are more than kind. There is no response from those who are responsible for making the response, only a form of words which have been repeated all too often without any follow-up.
      I cannot see any way that the FM will change her position, no matter what her public statements are. To put it bluntly,there is literally no money for an independence referendum.
      And in any case, as we all know now unless we are blinded by deep faith in the leader, Scotland will lose most of its devolved powers after Dec 31 2019. Perhaps even earlier, If the Westminister deadline of 15th October does indeed take place.
      The FM has other priorities, I am afraid, and the Covid crisis gives her a plausible cover. But note that in spite of the crisis, the GRA bill went through Holyrood. That priority is now clearly seen as taking precedence. The thinking must be, Let’s get this done while we still have the powers. So why so selective? Do people never ask themselves that question?
      And the answer is, and must be, NO. Don’t forget that 27& of young Scottish respondents to one of the WOS polls, think that sometimes the sun goes round the earth.
      And we have to live with the consequences of the decisions made by the ignorant, the stupid and the consciously malicious among us.

    364. Ottomanboi says:

      The tangling web of wokery, identitarianism and craven ignorance.
      The two words, to me, do not even sound alike.
      Next stage in the muzzling cult….ducktape?

    365. J Galt says:

      It might be a good idea for the coronavirus enthusiasts to have a look at the PCP test which is now the driver behind the so called “cases” and therefore the continuing business destroying, job destroying and increasingly, life destroying lockdown measures.

      The confident statements that so many people have tested “positive for Co-vid 19” are utterly misleading – there is NO test for Co-vid 19.

      The test’s originator has said that it is an inappropriate use for the procedure and “positive” results can be obtained from other causes including certain DNA sequences naturally present in the body.

      This “event” is resulting in unemployment and poverty on a vast scale, possibly unseen in this country since the 1930s. Even the WHO acknowledges that poverty is the world’s greatest killer.

      Frankly if you are in favour of the poverty inducing lockdown measures you are in favour of killing far more people than you are saving, or more charitably, unaware, wilfully or not, of the facts.

    366. Ottomanboi says:

      In many nations the treatment being meted out to Scots and Scotland would have provoked a coup d’état at the very least. Why are Celts so slow on the uptake?
      The late Gadhafi of Libya, very popular in the ‘third world’ as a liberation leader in his early years, noted the way the English treated Scots like Bedouin, of Bedou heritage himself he knew what that meant?
      Scotland awaits, if not exactly a Gadhafi, a leader with audacity, chutzpah and bravura.
      Think we’ve all had a fill of playing footsy with England.

    367. Ottomanboi says:

      @J Galt.
      The other big killer is government officials propensity for incompetence, mismanagement and gullibility and the complicity of the people in tolerating such.
      Covid-19 may or may not exist as a novel virus. The suppression of human rights and dignity and the sustained assault on individual freedom and democracy certainly does.

    368. `George Foulkes (twitter)

      BBC Scotland stopping daily live coverage of Nicola Sturgeon’s coronavirus briefings
      Good to see BBC Scotland have taken account of representations from @jackiebmsp and me!`

      Small minded Brutish Labour , what an abomination they have become,

      does the Labour run Welsh Assembly also do daily briefings and if so will they also be cancelled because of Lord Foulkes ,

      shutting down life saving information just as the second wave of the pandemic crashes into all aspects of society is culpable homicide.

      `Culpable homicide is committed where the accused has caused loss of life through wrongful conduct, but where there was no intention to kill `

    369. Ronald Fraser says:

      Ottomanboi 8.59 am

      I agree, we need somebody to walk out of the mist and lead us to Independence.

      Out of 5 Million Scots, there has to be ONE who will have the character and charisma to take the majority of Scots with him or her before it’s too late.

      What has happened to Joanna Cherry, Tommy Sheridan or others who could speak out on our behalf?

      They all seem to have disappeared.

    370. Effijy says:

      The NHS Protect App can only be downloaded on to
      More recent models of mobile phones.

      My wife uses an Apple I-phone 6 which I think is 4-5 years old
      But working perfectly.

      On trying to download the App it seems that Apple no longer software
      Updates on I-phone 6 or earlier and the NHS App requires iOS 13 software
      For the download.

      Two things from this, that restriction may mean one third of phones can’t use the App
      and just who do apple think they are that they try to force you to buy another £600 phone
      if you want to download new Apps?

      Where is their concern for the environment that they want you to dump a perfectly good phone and
      Battery in order to make one of the world’s richest corporations richer.

      Another version of the App would need to be produced to maximise the number of users.
      Just hope in this case it’s not yet again more money for another Tory funding company?

    371. Effijy says:

      Caught a bit on Sky news with Tory Minister Zawaheid, excuse spelling,
      he is trying to boast that they are providing more tests than Germany?

      Kaye Hurley Burley knows nothing about Germany’s Covid stats.

      As a fact the testing numbers may be true but as Germany has controlled Covid
      In a vastly superior manner, they do not require as many tests as incompetent UK.

      Germany has greater population by about 15 million.
      You would expect their Covid numbers to be greater but no.

      You are 5 times more likely to die from Covid in the UK than Germany!

      The Tories putting out that they are doing something better than Germany is
      Completely farcical and so is the Sky News interviewers ability to question.

      Great Germany took in the East German nation and then over a million refugees
      that Westminster helped bomb out of their homelands, the German economy is very
      Much stronger than the UK’s and they can travel and trade freely with the rest of Europe.

      Blustering Bankrupt Buffoon Britain should drop the word Great as
      Grate would fit better as they go down the drain.

    372. Effijy says:

      Westminster strikes some form of trade deal with Japan?

      Now would Japan be dumb enough to give them a deal better
      Than the trade deal they struck with the 28 members in the
      Worlds biggest trading block?

      No I don’t think so either!

      So this new deal will be worse than the EU deal we benefitted from,
      But the Tories can herald it as a Deal, the only one they have.

      You may also recall that without any Tory Transparency, Mrs May held meetings
      With Japan’s Nissan, who manufacture in the UK North East, that’s South of Scotland
      Incidentally, we the UK government promised the car plant would be guaranteed not to
      Face export tariffs to the EU.

      So, for me it looks like a No Deal ensures massive export tariffs and we the tax payer will
      Pick up the bill for all Nissan’s export tariffs.

      Would Ford, Vauxhall, Jaguar or Aston Martin expect anything less to stop
      Them moving production to mainland Europe?

    373. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why am I pretty sure the Lord Advocate got his qualifications out of a cereal box? Westminster law that lacks coherence and comparability with international law, also lacks coherence and comparability with the Common law. As the British constitution is grounded and justified through Common law, legislation that is not compatible with international law is not compatible with the British constitution.

      I was pretty sure Britain was a neo-fascist state, when I was studying this stuff as a young man. There is absolutely no doubt now that Britain is a neo-fascist state, and Westminster is now so up it-self that it is prepared to be openly totalitarian.

      Effective opposition from the Scottish government has yet to appear.

    374. willie says:

      Interesting how today I received an SNP email ( not a government or an NHS email) from the First Minister encouraging me to down load the tracking app.

      Interesting how the communication received was an amalgamation of communication from a political party to an individual attaching a message from a government and enclosing a tracking app produced by another government.

      Having everyone tracked for the best of reasons of course, and having a political party and a government seamlessly connected is no doubt also for the best of reasons….of course. It could not be anything else……even from a Government Minister who is now not to be permitted to broadcast public health messages by a state broadcaster set up and controlled by a Westminster Government.

      The days of every aspect of our personal data being visible are here and this tracking app is stage one of tracking and restricting our every movements in real time.

      For anyone who has worked in a high tech environment they know fine well how carrying electronic credentials allows them to open doors, whilst at the same time tracking their every move, every action.

      The days of electronic pass laws are here where without the right pass, individuals will be denied the right to travel, to board a bus, train, boat or plane, to access services such as health or banking or whatever.

      So download the app folks its more effective than the ankle bracelet currently secured onto convicted felons on restricted movement orders.

    375. Robert Graham says:

      I bet the BBC in Scotland are shittn themselves over Honest Johns vicious attack of their decision to keep Scots in the dark by dropping the FMs daily briefings regarding Coved updates.

      With this type of decisive leadership how can we fail , remember that remarkable attack on the Tory Governments decision to open a Colonial outpost in the centre of our Capital this is to enact and administer all the powers repatriated from the EU that should have been returned to Holyrood .

      Aye I don’t remember seeing any obstructions from the SNP government struck bloody dumb

      Aye we are on our way with strong decisive leadership behind us

    376. willie says:

      Funny also how certain web sites, like Wee Ginger Dug restrict comments about things like communication lock down by the BBC.

      Just beginning to realise that the Wee Dug is every bit as censorial as the BBC. It certainly ain’t a blog that supports openness .

      I wonder who walks the Dug?

    377. tartanfever says:

      Genuine questions to folks.

      Is anyone else thinking about beginning to buy extra supplies for the coming winter/ 2nd Covid Phase Lockdown/ No deal Brexit ?

    378. willie says:

      Aye too right Robert Graham the BBC will be shitting themselves not about their decision to disbar the First Minister from broadcast coverage.

      All part of the plan to utterly destroy from both within and without any notion of independence. The British state is at war and it will stop at nothing.

      As for international treaties, they are but to be used as toilet paper. The hard won Good Friday Agreement is in tatters. But that is of no consequence. The British political – military establishment have made their assessment.

      Ditto the decision to undermine utterly the Scottish Parliament in advance of its dissolution is also a similar calculation. The Scottish Convention, the settled will of the Scottish People, the Sacred vow – all wiped off like a piece of toilet paper.

      Ah well, the Beasts of Scotland, to misquote Orwell, will have to decide what they want to do.

      Meanwhile they can all download the tracking app so that folks know where they are, where they’ve been, who they’ve met with.

      Yes, Beasts of Scotland all right!

    379. Breeks says:

      Ronald Fraser says:
      11 September, 2020 at 9:19 am
      Ottomanboi 8.59 am

      I agree, we need somebody to walk out of the mist and lead us to Independence…

      Maybe, just a suggestion thrown into the pot, Phantom Power might be persuaded to follow up their No to YES series of videos with a further series of interviews, maybe debates, with opposing arguments aired respectfully to draw comments and opinions from our Scottish Government.

      Let’s show the BBC and Scottish public what they’re missing…

      I would love to see an online debate with Nicola Sturgeon, Joanna Cherry, Pete Wishart, Craig Murray, and Alex Salmond.

      And since it’s my idea, we definitely would be talking about Constitutional backstops and Scottish Sovereignty being subjugated…

      I reckon if Phantom Power, or Indy Live, or even Skotia, could set that up, the results would be fantastic, and Rev Stu, at least for one or two days wouldn’t top the ranks for internet traffic…

      On the Internet, we can do what we like. It’s just a conversation… Don’t broadcast it, share it, and the BBC can merely look on.

      Any money says Nicola Sturgeon wouldn’t turn up, being too busy for Scotland… but if we get big hitters from the “disgruntled malcontents’ to play ball, I reckon there’s a degree of leverage…

      Seriously, how hard could it be to find a venue? If there are costs, we crowd fund them. If we need a chair person, find a volunteer… Maybe Lesley Riddoch. Or here’s an idea, how about Bruce Fummey?

      When the Mainstream propagandists get uppity about Scotland’s new media getting to ask a question, let’s put them into melt down with an “indie” Indy show that blows their ratings out the water…

    380. Helen Yates says:

      tartanfever says:
      11 September, 2020 at 10:31 am
      Genuine questions to folks.

      Is anyone else thinking about beginning to buy extra supplies for the coming winter/ 2nd Covid Phase Lockdown/ No deal Brexit ?

      I’ve already started.

    381. Oneliner says:

      BBC blanking Nicola Sturgeon – that should keep a lot of people on here happy. Go figure……

    382. Helen Yates says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      9 September, 2020 at 4:00 pm
      Got a callback from the Electoral Commission. Accounts pushed back for two more weeks. Article has been edited.

      This should be interesting.

    383. tartanfever says:

      Helen Yates:

      I was in two minds, didn’t want to start as I thought it was too early.

      But considering the events of the last few days and the increasing likelihood of a No Deal Brexit on 31st December and the warnings from supermarkets about food shortages I think it might be wise.

      Add in the chance of a Covid lockdown at anytime and the usual Christmas chaos in December, you suddenly realise that there really isn’t that much time.

    384. Robert Graham says:

      Effijy @ 9:46
      Slightly connected but might just be o/t
      Re Apple and its gangster like Business Model that holds users to ransom , a perfectly good I pad with soon be rendered useless because they refuse to update the operating system past I believe 10.1 that’s installed presently , one by one installed apps are disappearing and the latest versions are not compatible , the bloody mafia would blush at their methods but Apparently not Apple

    385. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just a thought, perhaps the Scottish government is unprepared to defend Scotland’s constitutional identity, as to do so would undermine their determination to introduce genderwoowoo into Scots law. It would also undermine their Hate Crime bill. So perhaps I wasn’t so far off the mark when I suggested Scotland was being fitted-up to slip seamlessly into a state of totalitarianism?

    386. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liberty and democracy in Scotland, is under serious challenge by two governments that do not appear to respect the rule-of-law. What has Scotland ever done to deserve this?

    387. Balaaargh says:

      I agree with you Willie in that it is inappropriate for the SNP to be emailing people about downloading the app but that’s it.

      The app does not track you at all. It’s based on the Google/Apple distributed model so there is no big brother tracking database unlike WMs failed app attempt in the summer. It’s essentially the same app already used in Ireland.

      If you’re that paranoid about being tracked, you wouldn’t have a mobile phone to install it on.

    388. Breeks says:

      Oneliner says:
      11 September, 2020 at 10:38 am
      BBC blanking Nicola Sturgeon – that should keep a lot of people on here happy. Go figure……

      Golden opportunity for Sturgeon to throw the weight of her office behind Scotland’s burgeoning ‘alternative’ media then, isn’t it? If the BBC won’t broadcast it, we’ll find somebody who will…

      No,… I bet she doesn’t either.

    389. mike cassidy says:

      Robert Graham 10.46

      They stopped supporting version 10 last year

      Just update the ipad’s operating system to whatever it is now

      10.34 , I think

    390. Robert Graham says:

      Again o/t

      LBC the London now a National Radio Station have over the last few months been getting more Scottish listers and contributors from Scotland , so I guess it’s just coincidence that Ruthless now has a hour long spot on Sunday at 9 pm ,

      Sean Clerkin rumoured to be her first guest

      Eh the last bit is of course a wee fib , oh well why not get into the swing of things because ruthless will be shovelling all sorts of shite and comments that don’t include the truth on her hour long bit

    391. CameronB Brodie says:

      Think I was exaggerating when I suggested the Scottish government is not interested in supporting the rule-of-law?

      Indian Journal of International Law volume 55, pages 299–328 (2015)
      International health law: an emerging field of public international law

      International health law: an emerging field of public international law

    392. Ottomanboi says:

      Come On Scotland….kick against those PRICKS!
      Independence is universal, national, political, social, personal, responsible and accountable.

    393. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie 10:58am

      ‘What has Scotland ever done to deserve this?’

      Nothing. We’ve done nothing. We reap what we sow.

    394. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      I wouldn’t be so hard on the people, who’ve been systematically conditioned to consider the UK as wholesome.

    395. CameronB Brodie says:

      The blame rests entirely with out politicians and legal officers, who appear to consider their judgement to be superior to the jurisprudence of international law. That’s narrow minded legal parochialism, that is.

      Realising the right to
      health in South Africa

    396. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie 11:22am

      Nice guys finish last and get to comment on Wee Ginger Dug

    397. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean 🙂

    398. willie says:

      Baalargh @11.06am.

      I wouldn’t be at all too sure about the app not tracking you. By its very nature recording who you meet and where and for how long and being able to extract and analyse all that data seems to me to be a process of tracking. Who knows the hidden intricacies of sophisticated technology that can be migrated across systems and analysed by Big Data with devastating effect.

      Tell em its safe, tell em its for their own good, that’ll allay any fears. Your data as safe with Big Data, the government guarantee it – not

      But maybe I am wrong Balaaargh!

    399. Gullane No 4 says:

      I enjoy reading nearly all of the Independence bloggers.

      They would do well to remember that internal fighting amongst themselves is not going to help win a free Scotland.
      Right now is the time to put up a united front, not a divided shambles of self serving rubbish that will lose the momentum.

    400. willie says:

      And on talking about people’s data, how many people know that to join a doctors surgery you have to have your information run through Home Office and Border Agency computers.

      And how many know that your data can be shared with HMRC, the Police and other such bodies.

      Or what of the banks who make available your data to all manner of bodies. Or the matching up of health, banking, National Insurance number, driving licence, passport, property ownership and much more data into interlinked data bases.

      Yes, you’re information is safe, Boris Johnson and his big money backers guarantee it. Its for their own good.

      Beasts of Scotland should rejoice as they watch and or read their trusted world class organ of impartial information service the BBC.

      Rejoice again ye beasts of Scotland!

    401. CameronB Brodie says:

      Gullane No 4
      I hear you but there needs to be a common point of agreement between all our voices. IMHO, that’s a respect for the rule-of-law.

      The Right to Health in International Law


      The link between health and human rights has been recognized for many years. But the increasing visibility of the right to health in international law has been a distinct feature in social and policy debates over the last decade. It has been embraced to varying degrees by actors within civil society, academics, health professionals, lawyers and courts in several jurisdictions, policy makers and international institutions, as a tool to address health inequalities at the local and global level in matters ranging from access to medicines and the availability of affordable health care services to sexual and reproductive health and the availability of abortion services.

      But it has equally been the subject of derision and scorn by its opponents who have described it as being without foundation, nebulous and incapable of implementation. This book seeks to offer a comprehensive discussion of the status and meaning of the right to health in international law. It traces the history of this right to reveal its nexus with public health and the long standing recognition that a state has a responsibility to attend to the health needs of its population.

      It offers a theoretical account of its conceptual foundations which challenges the position held by many philosophers that health is undeserving of the status of a human right. It develops an interpretative methodology to provide a persuasive account as to the meaning of the right to health and it applies this methodology to describe the nature of obligations imposed upon States. This process reveals an understanding of the right to health that, while challenging, remains practical and capable of guiding States that are genuinely committed to addressing the health needs of their population.

      international law, human rights, health, right to health, theoretical foundations, meaning of health, international obligation

    402. cynicalHighlander says:

      Oh well looks like someone isn’t up for the fight.

    403. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….IMHO, that should be a respect for the rule-of-law.

    404. Mountain shadow says:

      A new Survation indy poll out

      Yes 53%
      No 47%

      Includes over 16s

    405. Balaaargh says:


      Yes, you are wrong in your understanding about what the app does. I work in cybersecurity so this is literally my day job. One of the world’s best minds on crypto and privacy lives here in Edinburgh, Prof. Bill Buchanan. He’s written a number of articles about tracking techniques used which you can find on and his own site,

    406. robbo says:

      Hey Willie

      Best you stock up on baconfoil from Aldi. You’ll be fine.No one will find you.

    407. kapelmeister says:

      Gullane No 4 @11:39

      What is this momentum to which you refer? The momentum of not using mandates from the people?

    408. kapelmeister says:

      It’s lunchtime.

      That means Peter Murrell has earned £300 since getting to the office this morning.

    409. mike cassidy says:

      cynicalHighlander 11.54

      Who could Joanna Cherry possibly be referring to here?

      The Scottish Government has not ruled out recourse to litigation either in respect of the provisions of this bill or, indeed, in respect of the future refusal of a Section 30 Order. But what will we do if court action fails or if we win but this rogue Government refuses to respect the judgment of the court?
      For the time being at least, it has been made very clear to me that these are decisions above my pay grade, but they are decisions which will require to be taken nonetheless.

    410. kapelmeister says:

      When I say earned I mean ‘earned’.

    411. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland can not depend on a government that does not respect liberal science or international law. The Scottish government’s determination to introduce anti-foundational law into statute (see GRA amendments), tells me the Scottish government is taking appalling legal advice.

      A legal respect for biology and human health, can not be separated.

      American Journal of Public Health. 2005 July; 95(7): 1156–1161.
      The Right to Health Under International Law and Its Relevance to the United States


      In recent years, there have been considerable developments in international law with respect to the normative definition of the right to health, which includes both health care and healthy conditions. These norms offer a framework that shifts the analysis of issues such as disparities in treatment from questions of quality of care to matters of social justice.

      Building on work in social epidemiology, a rights paradigm explicitly links health with laws, policies, and practices that sustain a functional democracy and focuses on accountability. In the United States, framing a well-documented problem such as health disparities as a “rights violation” attaches shame and blame to governmental neglect. Further, international law offers standards for evaluating governmental conduct as well as mechanisms for establishing some degree of accountability.

    412. stuart mctavish says:


      Any idea/ thoughts on whether the same app was(/could be) used to disrupt the Assange trial?

    413. Famous15 says:

      The App does not make you more liable to state scrutiny! The British and US Security Services have all the information they need already so any scares about the App are just anti Scottish NHS.

      Get real ,stay real!

      “Alexa, stop the video and recorder” “I do not know that subject”

    414. Ottomanboi says:

      9-11 and the old New Normal. Covid-19 and the new New Normal.

      “Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.”
      Marie Curie

    415. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ronald Fraser.

      Tommy Sheridan commented here on WOS a few days ago.

    416. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Can you think of any recent events which might have caused a drop in donations to political parties?

      What about other parties’ incomes for comparison?

      And, again, you haven’t provided any evidence about what the Short Money is actually being used for in practical terms to imply that it isn’t being used simply for the added requirements a larger contingent of MPs brings with it. So unless you can show that other parties are not also seeing massive donation drops and fundraising caused by a loss of donors (which I would be very surprised indeed to see), I’m not sure you can draw the conclusions you seem to be drawing that this is in any way a problem unique to the SNP.”

      What on Earth are you wittering about? What does any of that have to do with anything in the article?

    417. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Common Weal and AUOB are about as useful and important to the independence campaign as a fart in a spacesuit.”

      Ah, the unifying voice of the New SNP.

    418. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Scottish government’s rather bizarre and abstract approach to the law, makes it vulnerable to litigation for a lack of care, which it has a legal duty to uphold.

      Encyclopedia of Public Health
      Tort Law and Public Health

      Torts law; Law of torts; Law of delict


      Tort law is one of the fields of private law. It encompasses the legal rules that attribute legal responsibility and compensation duties (liability) for damages resulting from torts. The term tort describes a wrongful, unlawful act injuring or affecting life, body, health, property or other protected right of another person.

      Tort law provides the prerequisites and limits of liability of tortfeasors and the extent of their obligation to compensate claimants . Main forms of tort liability are fault-based liability, strict liability and state liability.

    419. Balaaargh says:

      @Stuart McTavish,

      Haven’t kept up with the latest on Assange’s show trial. It would need multiple attendees with this app – or compatible alternative and an operative on-site carrying an “infected” device wandering around breaking social distancing rules. They’re not going to break the system remotely but they could definitely abuse it. It’s not impossible but improbable given there could be easier alternatives like just ignoring the law.

    420. cynicalHighlander says:

      @mike cassidy

      Probably some private individual as the present leaership wants to play nicey nicey.

    421. Gullane No 4 says:


      The momentum of rising and being consistently ahead in opinion polls.
      ie MORE people favour independence.

    422. stuart mctavish says:

      Fair enough, but whilst ‘ignoring the law’ is only open to one side, the defence may also have reasons to delay justice (such as foreknowledge of it being denied in any event) so might be worth bearing in mind that chaos can be achieved at the drop of a hat (or a contaminated phone in someone’s satchel).

      That said, if it becomes mandatory rather than voluntary, it may also be worth bearing in mind how easy it will become to tag any ‘unwanted’ pubic observers/ reporters with a contaminated micro device, that could have them removed from critical proceedings, at any preferred moment – without even needing to accuse them of contempt, etc..

    423. Cadogan Enright says:

      Rev – this is tosh

      for instance a huge chunk of Sinn Féin money comes from Westminster – but no one would be stupid enough to suggest they are towing the UK government line

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