Scottish Labour clarity update
Posted on
November 15, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
One of our favourite things to remember is what Scottish Labour regional manager Kezia Dugdale said when she was elected to the head-of-branch post 15 months ago:
We like to periodically check how that’s going.
This week: Unionism.
Another job well done. Tune in next week when Kezia explains in unambiguous terms just exactly where Scottish Labour stands on Trident, the council tax freeze, working constructively with the SNP and well, you get the joke by now, folks.
Its Schrodinger Scottish Politics
Labour are Unionist and non Unionist at the same time
The Lib dems are winners when they are not winners
Lets just close the box, even Hope left it long ago
It’s time old Aunt Sally was buried in a grave. She stinks to high heaven.
She’s like a wean at the wrong end of a swimming pool….She’s out of her depth
Unfortunately it’s not a joke. Fortunately Labour’s Scottish branch office accounting unit are becoming about as relevant as Wee Willie’s bouncy castle party.
Scotland needs and deserves better. An active opposition to the SNP putting Scots and Scotland first instead of playing musical chairs for a seat in the HoL.
Does it even matter what the Branch thinks?
Is Labour saying they are not unionists the same as Ruth the mooth saying she is not a tory?
Welcome to unionist politicians they even lie about being unionists.
So they claim to be the party of devolution so can they then explain why they blocked devolution in westminster or why being pro devolution federalists does not make them unionists?
Yea right slabber goons some might say you are lying better together gits.
Oh and you will pay politically for your actions tick tock.
Aye, all those ‘listening exercises’ really paid off then. 🙂
BLiS and the Fib Dem Politicians definitely need to stop bullsh*tting the electorate and either form a “Union Party” with the Tories or cross the floor if they are Pro-iScotland.
Everyone knows it is now Indy vs Union regardless of which election is being contested.
The only people who think BLiS (or even the Fib Dems after their Branch Christmas Party at the weekend) are still relevant in Scotland are their own MP/MSP/Councillor/Advisor troughers.
If Labour actually proposed a radical federal or confederal arrangement, does anyone think that would be a major threat to the SNP and the prospect of independence?
I can’t see the hapless Dugdale lasting much longer, so maybe it is a possibility.
I don’t think they care much about Scottish democracy, but proposing an genuine English Parliament might be a way for them to win back support in England.
As things stand, the Tories own English nationalism.
In reply @ Onwards says at 11:34 am
1 . “If Labour actually proposed a radical federal or confederal arrangement, does anyone think that would be a major threat to the SNP and the prospect of independence?”
No Onwards, it would be Vow 2, enough evidence via Scotland Act 2016 to show it would be ‘jam tomorrow’ again. The time for a Federal UK has long past.
2. “I can’t see the hapless Dugdale lasting much longer”
After Local Elections 2017 would be most peoples bet.
3. “As things stand, the Tories own English nationalism.”
Naw, UKIP own English nationalism and the Tories are trying to out UKIP UKIP to save losing voters. Faradge (no typo) is really giving them a headache.
The very peculiar Scots Nats. Integrity free SLabour will tell themselves they can get away with this con because they never actually say they’re pro independence. It is disorientating watching red tories like Dr NO! in action but its meant to be.
Maybe they know its not that important anymore what they say. Look at integrity free SLibDems. If it wisnae for the Lords and the tory BBC in Scotland, where would they be?
I do not think there are many halfway houses left in Scotland. The reality is that you are going to have to come down on one side or another.
Labour are trying to walk a tightrope that is dissolving under their feet.
Labour politicians neither know what they stand for or what they are.
Just look at the contortions they under went during the Blair years, to claim their right wing Thatcherite policy agenda represented the values of Labour.
They now claim not to be unionists, but they do describe themselves as British, and are prepared to do whatever they can to ensure Scotland continues to be governed by Westminster.
In my view that makes them not only British nationalists but also unionists.
People can propose anything they like on federalism – it wont happen for 2 reasons, nobody in England wants it, and Westminster is incapable of radical change.
The only reason for proposing it is to attempt to undermine support for independence. We all know its the Vow and Smith dishonesty all over again. They’ve been saying this sort of stuff for over 100 years.
Wait! Why is the room spinning? 😮
We laugh, but in reality it’s a staggering dereliction of duty.
These people blatantly refuse to take a stand, waiting for the next swing past of the Tory coat tails to clutch onto for the faintest whiff of some minor, reflected success.
They see no shame in this, in deciding for personal/ party gain, whether or not to jump, and in which direction.
Because it’s Labour, and with their continuing sense of entitlement, they feel supremely confident that, when they do, no matter what the consequences for Joe “You’ve nowhere else to go” Public, they do so safe in the knowledge that they’ll land on someone else’s feet.
Greannach@11.10
It matters not what they ‘think’, but it matters the amount of s***e they spout via the state run media on a daily basis.
Labour branch in Scotland couldn’t be trusted to run a jumble sale, nevermind oversee crucial matters in Holyrood. They are an embarrassment to Scottish politics, sometimes wonder if it’s deliberate.
Jocko
“Faradge (no typo)”
Is he the leader of the Farangists?
[…] Wings Over Scotland Scottish Labour clarity update One of our favourite things to remember is what Scottish Labour regional manager […]
It is a Unionist and anti socialist party. Frank McAveety thinks being a Sellick fan makes him a “Republican”.
Mince and thick go together.
Kezia is better at changing her mind than making decisions!
The history of the Labour Party was once about people…not the “working people” not the “British people”.
When you have the choice of doing NOTHING for many or a LOT for a few it is a no brainer.
The founding fathers of Labour aspired to change at a local level, then regional, then nationally and then globally. They would have grasped the chance to bring a fair society to Scotland NOT just for Scots but in order to start the change…to show what could be achieved.
The fact that Kezia does not understand this concept is all too evident. The union comes first even if that is power in the hands of the Tories.
Labour are finished in Scotland. So is the Unionist/Green No Party. Malicious They are all a threat to Scotland becoming Independent and become a more prosperous and equal and fair country. In line with the majority in Scotland’s wishes. The UnionistsGreen No Party are a disgrace. They are malicious, scheming, untrustworthy lies in a Parliamentary system that was design to prevent Democracy and FFA/Independence in Scotland.
Democracy only came to Scotland in the year 2000, when Holyrood Parliament was established. The electoral system in Scotland a PR system was set up specifically designed to always be controlled by Unionists Parties. A small number of people to thwart Democracy, FFA and Independence in Scotland. A flawed system controlled by politicians whose control base in outwith Scotland and whose purpose is not in Scotland’s or the UK’s interest.. Flawed.
The Green Party could cost Scotland FFA and Independence, under the flawed political system. A small, limited interest, unpopular pressure group, of limited ideology. They are untrustworthy liars and use the desire for Independence in the wider society to maliciously further their own interest.
Lying and getting votes from SNP voters by claiming that giving them their vote will strength the Independence movement. The only guaranteed way to achieve FFA/Independence in to vote SNP/SNP at every opportunity. It will maintain better governance and policies in Scotland to achieve a more equal prosperous and successful society. To protect NHS/Education and the vulnerable. Etc.
The Greens collude with Unionists at every opportunity. Renege on their own policies. Lie to win votes. They are untrustworthy and could renege on their commitment to Independence. They try to discredit the SNP at every opportunity. Claiming they were elected to hold the SNP to account. They were not. They lied to get SNP/Independence supporters to give them their vote to attack the SNP. Despicable behaviour. Paying an ill conceived game to damage the Scottish economy and cause vulnerable people hardship. Exactly the opposite of what the preach. Untrustworthy and naive.
The Green collude with Unionists to damage the Scottish economy, waste £Millions/Billions of taxpayers money. Building grotesque projects. Not supporting pedestrianisation or reducing traffic chaos in Cities. Colluding with Unionists for remuneration and Office. Greedy manipulators wasting public money with unpopular non Green policies for personal gain and prestige. They could cost Scotland self rule, FFA and Independence.
The Unionist Parties are compulsive, malicious liars. They lie about everything for personal gain and privilege. Compulsive liars always get found out and then people do not believe a thing they say. The electorate will get wise to flawed political system at Holyrood and call the dangerous manipulators out. They will get voted out. 3rd rate rejects.
Vote SNP/SNP Msy 2017. Vote for FFA. Vote for Independence and democracy.
Wait! Why is the room spinning?
YES voters like vote NO Dr Scott Thinks, are interesting to watch in action though, as he does SLab campaign as if he was actually happy and glorious SLab in an independent Scotland.
Rewind to 2014, not a unionist Dr NO! raged at Scots to vote NO and stay under Westminster control. Fast forward 2016, not a yoon Dr NO! rages away at SNP Scots.gov cuts to public services because Scots are still under the control of Westminster, what not a unionist Dr NO! raged at Scots to stay under the control of, because he’s not a unionist unionist.
Confused.com not a unionist, unionist SLab style.
Maybe we need a new word or term for YES voting anti independence, pro independence, NO voting, not a unionist unionists, like SLabour?
Lying twerp, is not a new term.
Meanwhile, Westminster invest a cool £56bn in to their high speed rail network, London to Sheffield. But you cant ride on England’s HS2 for near on 20 years, Dr NO!
Labour in Scotland, the epitome of
“Ask not what you can do for your country
Ask what your party can do for you!”
This time next year, all hail the new boss Stephen Purcell.
@Heedtracker
Aye, they’re a bit confused right enough.
Important to remember though. They’re NOT unionsts, they’re sociofederaldevolutionists… I think.
Owowowowowowowow! Brain snap.
Corbyn shows more support for independence than Dugdale.
BTW, I was sitting on a bus between Stirling & Perth on Saturday & happened to look out, just as a wee red car tootled past, with the proudly proclaimed plates ‘KEZ 2015’.
Hahaha, if not Dugdale’s motor – it should be.
It’s true what they say, you learn something new everyday.
Not only is John McTernan an idiot, he is also an unprincipled low life mouthpiece.
Ken500, you seem not to like the Scottish Green Party, am I right?
😉
I am a member of the SGP but have voted for Indy in 2014, SNP in Westminster 2015 and SNP/Green in Holyrood 2016. The SGP is committed to independence for Scotland and I see no reason to think it will renege on that… have you? Or was that just mud-slinging for the sake of it?
You might like to think twice before expressing such vehement disapproval you feel for this party, of which many members lent their first votes to the SNP – in pursuit of independence!
Since when did ‘Unionist’ become a dirty word ? Is ‘British’ more palatable ? We are currently within a union of nations and to remain as such we are then part of a union , to support remaining within the union surely makes one a unionist .
What is patently obvious is that the main objection of unionists who wish to distance themselves from being perceived as a unionist is that they obviously see this as a weapon and derogatory term used against them by those who support independence . One could almost be forgiven for thinking they do protest way too much over this with their combined mantra of ‘We are not a unionist party’ and then one wonders why ?
If they continue to flog this dead horse and expect the Scottish electorate to deem terminology as so very significant in their quest to save the Union then that will be to their detriment. Strange though that Ruth blagged her way into being the opposition party under the ‘Unionist’ mantle.
I am never surprised by any of this insignificant crap spouted by this defunct party and it’s ultra manic supporters because I , like others, am only too aware that they are descending into political insignificance both at HQ and branch offices. HQ being destroyed by red Tories and branch offices led by Unionist leaders badly disguised as false patriots of their own devolved country.
Labour have been running on empty for a long time and as they slowly implode the only hope for Scots in the Union is to break free from this farcical travesty of being a Unionist in a Union that is dying on it’s feet with Unionists constantly in denial mode that it is NOT a union of equals but simply an English dictatorship.
Is not everything we write on here about this useless obsolete party not simply a constant repetition of the same conclusions and criticisms resulting from what they, a committed Unionist party, continually spew out using the same old same old tired crap that only resonates with those who are already loyal converts and disciples of their Unionist cause.
McTernan and Stephen Low were given 15 minutes on BBC Scotland 2016 last night to ‘debate’ the two extremes of the So Called Scottish Labour Party Schism.
On a programme which is to be axed because nobody’s watching and it’s an amateurish mish mash and rehash of the earlier Distorting Scotland bulletins,BBC PQ as usual devotes an inordinate amount of time and space to a discredited failed political movement because it is a Unionist Stalwart.
Low still advocates ‘Socialist’ tax and spend despite being trounced at the polls in May, and McTernan touts the Tony Blair New Labour Old Devil Incarnate Thatcher neo conservative tossery.
Be of good heart; McTernan forecasts that the YES side will lose Indyref 2. We’re home and dry then?
What an embarrassing bunch of chancers they are.
Presumably Dugdale and Rowley were not available?
Dear Labour
If you support the Union you’re a Unionist. Simples.
Labour are not unionist. They do not put the union at the centre of their ideology. They would, however, put the union before everything including, as we know, preferring a Tory government to an independent Scotland. Separation of Scotland from the union would never every be a good thing.
So, to be clear, they are not unionist in ideology but the union is the most important thing in the world, well, together with those long term plans that none of us will be alive to judge them on such as international socialism that they’re currently working on 😀
Macart says:
15 November, 2016 at 12:20 pm
@Heedtracker
Aye, they’re a bit confused right enough.
If you had just landed in Scotland from another planet this fine morn, you might look at Dr NO! vote not a unionist unionist SLab tweets and assume that he is a very strong opponent to SNP Scots.gov policies.
And isn’t that a very health example of democracy for Scotland, an independent nation state, not in fact a region and a region controlled almost entirely by its neighbouring country.
Unfortunately for not a unionist unionist SLab dudes like Dr NO!, no one else has just arrived from another planet. SLab stood BetterTogether with the tory party for austerity tory unionist control by Westminster. Scotland’s more than aware of it, as they rip up our hard won EU citizenship in front of us, for some reason, that noone can actually explain either.
Pretending they did not totally monster Scottish independence two years ago and now savaging SNP Scots.gov for the serious shit their vote NO or else, UKOK BetterTogether unionist rage has caused… lets say, undermines whatever they’re raging away at now, in their Scotland region, as they head for oblivion.
To be fair to Dr NO! and his merry band of non unionist unionist YES voting NO camper SLab crew, they do rage away at Scots for our £15bn black hole deficit and worst economy in the west, Greece without sun etc.
Who runs Scottish economy not a unionist unionist YES voting NO Dr NO! types, is not up for discussion.
So the tactic is to attack the SNP as a monstrous nationalist anti English party, whilst at the same time being completely incompetent.
The desired result is an electorate unwilling to vote for the “Nazis”, but also unwilling to support an independent Scotland due to the incompetence of the rest of our politicians.
Save us mother England!
It’s high time media fell under the remit of the Scottish Parliament.
You might like to think twice before expressing such vehement disapproval you feel for this party, of which many members lent their first votes to the SNP – in pursuit of independence!”
Yeah! Ken500, stop criticising them or they wont vote YES next time. That’s not mad at all, in the UKOK zone.
re McTernan – it may be a double bluff. He secretly believes that the Independistas will lose. But if he says that, with his reputation for papal infallibility, we will believe that we will win.
If we win, he says, “Just kidding”. If we lose, he says, “Told you so.”
Win win?
Meanwhile, back on Earth, the lunatics are still taking over the asylum, the banks, the communication systems, the military and the government. What is to be done?
I’ m just wondering out loud here.
Is there some sort of organisation that wee Kex and Alex can go to to help them work through their differences?
I mean SHE wants the union preserved and HE wants nothing to do with the union but wants not full independence but certainly a lot more independence than present.
If these two do not get help soon I’m afraid there is only one place left for them … the divorce courts! 😀
No, not the leader of the Faragists @ Chic McGregor says at 11:54 am
“Faradge (no typo)”
Is just a Radge call Farage 🙂
Had you said Leader of the Falangists however:
“Falangism is widely considered a fascist ideology. Under the leadership of Francisco Franco, many of the radical elements of Falangism considered to be fascist were diluted and it largely became an authoritarian, conservative ideology connected with Francoist Spain.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
As the Rev coined them some time ago – FUDamentalists.
Federalists, Unionists and Devolutionists –
All depending on what day of the week it is.
They’ve got more faces than the Scottish weather.
Scotland needs to work with the UK government and stop coming up with ideas of it’s own, after all there were other constituencies in the UK that voted to remain as well
John McDonnell said today
And there you have it in a nitshell (yes I spelled that right) First, Scotland should keep it’s mouth shut and stop interfering
Second, Scotland is now reduced to a constituency
But overall Scotland isn’t even part of the UK government because it doesn’t exist, it’s the English government that makes the rules
It’s easy to understand why folk lose their tempers when continually faced with this level of arrogant dominance
At least we know for sure now that Indyref2 is a winner because John McTernan predicted we’d lose and John McTernan also confirmed that because there are more English folk and that does give England the right to rule, so onwards to Indyref2 that’s of course if the Electoral Commission don’t employ ex Tory ministers software companies to fiddle the vote again Peter Lilley wasn’t it? and Ruth Davidson just guessed the postal votes,,,, of course she did!
And then they tell us they were surprised at the Brexit vote, Aye right!
Well we’ll know sooner or later once the English decide to tell us what our future is to be, or not to be
BTW the next person to say to me (whinily) Bit Scotland cannae afford tae be Independent
I’ll stab them in the face with an ice cream cone
John McDonnells’ll be a double nugget
Meanwhile, back on Earth, the lunatics are still taking over the asylum, the banks, the communication systems, the military and the government. What is to be done?”
And the tory BBC led UK media freak show. Just listened to BBC Daily Politics show lunchtime and Ian Duncan Smith sat next to nice BBC lady, swatting aside everything and anything not tory and not Trumpian either, for the whole hour of vote tory BBC goodness.
Why the tories what own the BBC think they can get away with their unbiased and balanced shit, across the planet, is just one more UKOK Dr NO! style mystery.
@Capella
I think you’re overthinking John McTernans level of intellectual thinking
and defo his strategising abilities in regards to thinking
I could be wrong, or right, or….all this stuff drives you mental at times eh?
Chic McGregor 1154 – “Farangists” – Genius! Unfortunately for him Nigel is not a “Francophile”!
Here s what Dugdale has to say in today’s courier
Kezia Dugdale has dismissed suggestions of a rift with her deputy leader Alex Rowley as she confirmed he will
lead the party’s campaign in 2017’s local government elections.
The Scottish Labour leader said she and Fife MSP Mr Rowley are “absolutely united” in their opposition to a possible second independence referendum and added she has “every faith he will do a great job” heading up the party’s campaign in May’s council elections’.
Personally I only think it’s Independence supporter’s that actually watch the news programme’s.In the interim the brain dead will be watching I’m a Celebrity or Strictly!!
The real problem is getting these idiots to engage with what really matters. Sorry for the language but people have become so self centred that they don’t give a flying fuck and if the Telly says SNP bad they believe it.
We have a nation of dumbfucks and the Independence movement has to try a different approach.
We need a real high profile character to engage people and stand out as a figurehead telling the real truth and giving the media a real pasting !
@ Dr Jim – I can’t keep up with all these policy u-turns. Maybe that’s the cunning plan!
signed
Confusled
Dr Jim,
He called Scotland a constituency, wait, is he not the deputy labour leader, so what will that make Kezia, constituency supervisor? A local constituency administrative official. Sad, ever the hopeless fool, waiting for the respect that nobody gives her, not even her own party. Her story transcends political life, someone should write an opera on her life, death and the maiden?
Yoon Aberdeenshire council loses its bid to ban the Saltire flying at Trump’s Golf Course.
And remember how those we’re not Unionists Labour councils banned Saltire from flying from council buildings and the non political Union Jack flown instead.
Mr king,
And a dammed sight more SNP supporters gave their second choice to the greens, can you honestly say you are proud of the greens political choices thus far, because from where I am sitting, trying to discredit the SNP’s record is not a good start, new politics my arse, Harvey apparently is a bitter we man, not a party leader, time he grew up.
Artyhetty @11:53
I agree with you, and I think you’re right that the Branch seem always to promote low-flyers to show how useless they are; the implication being that Scotland as a whole would be useless at running itself. The good news is how thin Branchers are on the ground these days, but there’s always the problem of a Unionist realignment where Red(-ish) Branchers vote for Blue ones where they have a chance of winning and vice versa.
Rowley doesn’t understand what A Confederation means: It is a union of SOVEREIGN STATES united for purposes of common action often in relation to other states.
While the Nordic nations treasure their political and financial independence from one another, they also recognise the benefits of close cooperation. Some are in the EU some are not, some use the Euro and some don’t some are in NATO others aren’t but there is free movement of people and trade with tens of thousands in Sweden , Denmark and Norway commuting daily to work and shop in their neighbouring country without border controls.
The Norden website, which covers issues of Nordic cooperation, describes in Scandinavian terms what would be equally applicable in an independent Scotland and England “The joint labour market has allowed the Nordic countries to cope with cyclical fluctuations and has enabled them to develop more positively than would otherwise have been the case. Exchanges of labour are still important today, especially in the border areas.”
This is exactly the kind of beneficial situation we could look forward to between an independent Scotland and England – one where neighbouring independent nations with political and economic autonomy can best look after their own needs while working in close cooperation with each other to boost both countries’ interests, sharing skills, business and knowledge whilst maintaining a social union after independence.
Sinky wrote:
“Yoon Aberdeenshire council loses its bid to ban the Saltire flying…And remember how those we’re not Unionists Labour councils banned Saltire from flying from council buildings and the non political Union Jack flown instead.”
That’s correct folks and here’s your chance to start exposing these corrupt gophers and their rancid council operations.
The Alternative Legacy
link to crowdfunder.co.uk
sorry if old news.
Political Communications Strategist John McTernan
Joins Penn Schoen Berland to Lead International Political Practice
“John McTernan is a highly regarded pollster and political communications strategist with decades of
experience counseling candidates, party leaders and heads of state,” said Don Baer, Chair, PSB and
Worldwide Chair and CEO, Burson-Marsteller. “He is an ideal addition to PSB’s team of international
political strategists, and our clients will benefit greatly from his experience, steady hand and sound
judgment.”
that’s them screw’d then!
Deloitte leaked memo. 500 plus different Brexit areas to be threshed out at the negotiating table; 30,000 civil servants need to be recruited now, just to deal with the Handover of ‘Powers’, never mind the Administration of ‘Controls taken back.’
Has anybody worked out the cost of mounting a massive recruitment Programme? 30,000 suitably qualified bods across a vast range of skills knowledge and competencies, living in London, civil service types, who will join 32 Government Departments, be inducted, trained, found office space, equipment, IT ready, by the end of February, 3 1/4 months from now.
HR Departments have their work cut out, haven’t they?
Or will the Mandarins apply ‘operational easements’ to speed up the process?
Hold a mirror up to the candidate’s nose, and if it clouds over, they’re hired?
It is of course impossible to mount such a massive exercise in 3 months: and we learn that May and her Brexiteers are openly squabbling over what Brexit actually means.
To coin Ruth Strictly, what a ‘shower’.
Found this over at “Towards Indyref2″…… It’s a survey on media in Scotland….. Traditional and “Modern” ….. University of Strathclyde…… link to hass.eu.qualtrics.com
But but but… this can’t be right. I mean the bbc loves Labour in Scotland and supports every word uttered by loyal britnats like Dugdale. The bbc would never deliberately mislead the people of Scotland! Would they?
I hear the row is not even about whether they embrace independence. It’s about yesterdays news:” Home Rule”. They have been talking about that since Keir Hardy was a boy!
Gordon Broon has been bumping his gums about home rule. The same bullshit he promised while not in government in the Vow!
Well folks Slabour are well and truly yesterdays news!
Our imperial master baiters of the Graun finally report something Scotland.
link to archive.is
Hilarious.
@ Dr Jim at 1.08pm
“Scotland needs to work with the UK government and stop coming up with ideas of it’s own, after all there were other constituencies in the UK that voted to remain as well
John McDonnell said today”
Yes Jim and this was the same Unionist who said last year “SNP are the REAL ENEMY of vulnerable people in Scotland”.
So talking of enemies I am sure post #chickencoup #Brexit he must now appreciate that it is the ‘enemy within’ who are the ‘real enemy’ and not, via his misinformed opinion, the ‘regional’ government of Scotland but in fact much closer to ‘his’ home both politically and by the ‘region’ known as England.
Glad he is setting up the Labour Unionist stall aka HQ Labour in England denying Scotland a say as a ‘Nation’ and it seems once again it is contrary to what Ms Dugdale is spouting in the Scottish parliament as pseudo champion of Scotland in Europe .
They just keep giving and giving do they not.
Left hand …right hand….or just HQ and branch office…we know whose really in charge within their party and within this Union do we not.
“Scotland needs to work with the UK government” …..sounds like something a RED Tory would say as opposed to someone who is supposedly a RED flag socialist.
@Jockanese Wind Talker says: 15 November, 2016 at 11:43 am:
“The time for a Federal UK has long past.”
Come on guys an gals – can we please stop talking the same blethers as the Yoon Loons and look at the reality?
Reality is that the original, “Treaty of Union”, is legally exactly what its formal title describes it as :-
The union of the only two equally sovereign kingdoms in Britain is a legal agreement to form a federal union of two Kingdoms called, “The United Kingdom”.
The definition of, “federal”, is – pertaining to or of the nature of a union of states under a central government distinct from the individual governments of the separate states, as in federal government; federal system.
Thus in a federation all states are equal and a union of two equally sovereign Kingdoms is a federation of two kingdoms.
It is not a federation of four countries three of which belong to one of the partner kingdoms.
Neither is it a federation of four unequal countries with one of the partners in the federation treated as one of the countries that is subjugated by their original partner kingdom.
You cannot legally make a union of two kingdoms into a union of four countries without ditching the whole concept of a, “United Kingdom”, much less make a federal United Kingdom out of four unequal countries with one of those countries acting as if it were still the United Kingdom which is effectively devolving its stolen sovereign powers unequally to the three other countries and relegating their erstwhile legal partner kingdom to just another country that it owns.
Let we sovereign Scottish people tell it as it is and not be slaves to our English Masters. They are legally our partners – not our masters.
Labour still seem to think they can come out with this ‘federalism -lite’ rubbish, and Scots will buy it. I often ask this, but I’ll ask again, what is wrong with people in Labour? By joining the unionist argument in the referendum, they destroyed their position within Scotland, yet STILL they do everything in their power to avoid independence.
It is pathetic. It is abundantly clear to anybody with half a brain, that were Labour to adopt independence, and start supporting the SNP, they would see a gradual restoration of their fortunes. Given at least some of them ARE intelligent, it is clear therefore, that the ONLY reason they do not do what is in Scotland’s (and their own) best interests is because their London masters tell them what to do.
The people currently leading Labour in Scotland are pathetic. Every Scot can see that, and it is why come the next elections, they will fail to make progress.
Labour, doing England’s dirty work in Scotland. Scotland needs them like a proverbial hole in the head.
Aberdeenshire council is now SNP+ a few councillors Independent /Labour/Green dominated.
Split SNP /Tory. Two Tory won by-passes elections recently by a small margin on low turnout. Tories/coalition now has power by one or two majority? There is going to be no change over until May 2017 Council elections. The Aberdeenshire council is dominated by an SNP /Tory relatively equal spit? Primarily SNP have been taking sests from the Tories. Large rural constituencies. Farming,fishing Oil & Gas. Some (golf) tourism. Alex Salmond has always been elected there for over 30years. Very popular. Supports the community in every way he came. An excellent representative.
The Deeside/Aberdeenshire multimillionaires (ex councillors). Would fly both the Saltire/Union flag. Balmoral is on Deeside. Estate owner cousin of the Queen.
The swing will come in May 2017. Which way?
It was Stirling Council that try to ban the Saltire.
It might have been Aberdeen City Council who tried to ban the Saltire. – Willy Young – Labour/Unionist. Millionaire Stonehaven property owner. His antics are often not appreciated by the electorate. Tried to ban Alex Salmond and SNP representatives from the City. A Green councillor helps keep a Unionist coalition in power. Supporters the status quo, for increased remuneration, Office, privileges and prestige. Bans popular majority supported projects but supports grotesquely unpopular projects wasting £Million/Billions of taxpayers money. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.
There is an extraordinary amount of road works going on in Willy Young constituency. Bridge of Don. Just before the May 2017 Council elections. £Millions being spent.
Labour/Unionist/LibDem/Tory/ Green councillors blocked the essential AWPR for over thirty years. Labour/Unionist dominated Cosla gave Aberdeen/shire councils 30% less of every other councils for 30 years and lied about it. No infrastructure investment.
Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.
@Clapper57
Mr McDonnell has a problem then. The UK doesn’t have ‘a’ population. It contains populations (plural). It is a union of nations, a partnership and one of those nations has a constitutional and entirely legal right and entitlement to an out if it wants it for any reason.
Mibbies Mr McDonnell isn’t aware of that fact? (benefit of the doubt) Or if he is, then he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for a pointless, insulting and moronic attempt to mislead the public of a nation partner.
Perhaps he should remember his words to Alastair Campbell on QT as to why many people don’t hold the political class in any regard these days.
link to theguardian.com
McDonnell and Corbyn are British nationalists. Simple as that.
Big England news: A bunch of folk running around with sticks between their legs attempting to pull a sock from another guys pants while being chased by other guys thowing a ball at them is a new game being touted for a possible olympic event
This new game is based on well known internet troll squillionaire and kids book writers imagination
See, these are the people the future of Scotland is entrusted to because there’s more of them, and they voted for Brexit
I’m told by the big TV England news and Scottish news that the politicians I voted for don’t know what’s best for me and my own country
I guess they must be right because my full Scottish parliament which is discussing Scotlands future constitutional crisis out of the EU is not on the telly but the empty big English one is on telly because they’re discussing HS2 and the benefit to the whole of the UK which stops at Leeds in this case
But it does go past Macclesfield so that’s good for the whole of the UK as well apparently
Hey Ho I’m sure they’re right, after all, I’m only Scottish which makes me a snail trail on the Arse of humanity
Is it not becoming patently obvious that SLAB MSPs have no idea what the Treaty of Union is?
This is not surprising as most of the rest of us didn’t realise it either until Robert Peffers spelt it out on WoS. Patiently.
Maybe instead of another Wee Blue Book we need to produce and circulate a Wee Treaty Book, so that everyone can catch up.
Then silly talk about Confederate Devo Max Home Rule Federalism can be quietly dropped.
Scottish Labour can’t ever support Independence and it’s not because they’re pricipled Tories, they have no principles, it’s because their funding would be cut off and they don’t have enough members left to support the party
Liable Dismocrats, same thing, funding cut off and no Joseph Rowntree foundation money to keep them going
Prediction: Comrade Harvies Communist Green party going down at the next election… Funoot Patrick, Jeez I sound like John McTernan, maybe I shouldn’t have said that
To be a Unionist, there needs to be a Union to support. By union (small u) we generally mean parties agreeing to be together for mutual benefit in a state of equality, a partnership.
Was the UK ever real a union of equal partners? For certain, it isn’t now! So does the Union exist? The UK exists, but that is not the same thing.
A hint about the true nature of this UK Union can be found in the reality that no one outside Scotland (or NI) ever says they are Unionist! It is for those outside England, but within the UK. It is a one way concept! And if it’s one way then it ain’t an equal partnership.
IMO being a Unionist, or being called a Unionist by others, means you subscribe to this very unequal partnership that is the UK. And you are on the shit end of deal! What sort of individual has such a low opinion of themselves and their neighbours that they believe that is acceptable?
It was ex Labour UKIP supporters who voted for Brexit because of the failure of Blair/Browns economic policies. Destroying the economy. They should be in jail. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Devious liars. Westminster Unionist do not enforce UK Law. They make the Law and break the Law. Enrich the wealthy and starve and kill the vulnerable. Brexit is a disaster. It will destroy the world economy.
Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Vote for Independence.
Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow. A total waste of taxpayers money.
The UK Gov has a statutory responsibility to ensure regular flights to and from Scotland to London. All UK taxpayers support the London subsidised transport system. Including Heathrow airport? Scotland should have adequate protected airport slots in Britain as a priority. Are BA slots still subsidised? BA has it’s own terminal. It is now owned by a Spanish company? Heathrow the worst airport in the world for customer satisfaction. Anywhere but Heathow. There should be more direct flight from Scotland.
By the time Heathrow has been expanded. It will be out of date. New technology for (space) flights which go to Australia in an hour+ will be introduced. Coming on stream. Sea travel will have been increased. Liner/sea travel is popular and increasing. Alternative methods of travel will have been introduced.
Rail travel should be improved in the North of England and Scotland. There are adequate rail services from London to Manchester/Birmingham. The trains are half empty, except at some busier periods. HS2 is a complete waste of money with no business case. Direct quicker, one journey trains from London to Thurso should be improved. This would benefit the whole of Britain.
The majority of people preferred to go by train where applicable, with more equal journey times. A much pleasant journey with less hanging about. In the future there will be less flights worldwide. The majority of flight worldwide are half empty. A total expensive waste of money. Damaging the world economy.
Following on from Robert Peffers @2.15pm, its worth recalling that in the federal USA, the Senate, one of the two chambers of Congress, has 2 senators elected for each of the 50 States – equal State representation regardless of the size of a State’s population. So two Senators for California with a population of c. 29 million and two for Wyoming with a population of c.586 thousand.
Can’t really see this being adopted for Scotland and England as equal partners in a federal UK!
However, the Kingdom of Scotland, regardless of its historic constitutional status and distinctive legal, educational and health systems, could generously be granted equivalent status to the Manchester or Birmingham city regions or the East Midlands region under a new federal arrangement!!
No thanks!
@Peter McCulloch says: 15 November, 2016 at 11:45 am:
” … but they do describe themselves as British”
Aye! Peter but the word, “British”, is not the same thing as either Great British or United Kingdom.
British means to belong to Britain and Britain is an archipelago of many islands that contains several countries and a United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. “Great Britain”, is the geographic term for the largest island of the British group. The United Kingdom of Great British & Northern Ireland is thus not all of Britain. The Yoon Loons just want everyone to believe it is. Why go along with their con-trick?
The people of The Republic of Ireland are British but are not part of the United Kingdom. As are the people of the non-UK Bailiwick of Jersey, the non-UK Bailiwick of Guernsey and the non-UK Isle of Man, (all of the latter three are Crown, not UK government, protectorates).
The Westminster Establishment has used such wrong terms to brainwash everyone into accepting their illegal version of what is essentially legally a Union of only two equally sovereign kingdoms.
World history, or indeed British History, proves that a country can be composed of many kingdoms. Indeed Cumbria was once a kingdom in England as was Northumbria, Mercia and so on.
kingdoms can also contain many countries as their monarchs captured and claimed other countries under the law of Divine right of kings.
The Kingdom of England annexed both Wales and Ireland as one Kingdom and it was that Kingdom of three countries that agreed to become an equal partner in the United Kingdom.
They are thus supposed to be our legal partners in the United Kingdom not our masters devolving their stolen sovereign powers to our parliament.
O/t just had a Scottish £10 note refused at r s mcolls at Poole bus station. So much for pooling and sharing in this shitty union.
The UK is not a federal state.
The bottom line difference between a federal state and unitary state with devolution, is that in the former the regional powers are constitutionalised and cannot be rescinded unilaterally whereas in the latter the power allocated by devolution may be removed at any time, unilaterally by the central government.
Scottish Labour politicians have made a lifestyle choice of easy money sucking on the public purse.
To ensure the easy money and easy lifestyle keeps flowing they see London rule and the Union as their job protector.
Unionism and Labour politician; co-dependent. Each lines the others pockets at Scotland’s expense.
The dogs on the street know, even the flies on the poo on the pavements, of the dogs on the street, know, that Labour, Conservative & LibDems are Unionist parties, including their Scottish branches. No amount of denial by Kezia Dugdale can change that.
When the Scottish Independence campaign began in 2012, what we all knew, was laid bare for all to see, when Labour jumped into bed with the Tories. The LibDems were already in there, keeping quiet. Together they formed an Alliance to save the Union.
This Alliance continues here in Scotland, dedicated and determined, to ensure that Scotland remains under the control of the British Establishment, through its political arm, Westminster. If in doubt, talk to the flies and the dogs.
That this is the case is not worthy of discussion. What is of interest is how they manage to survive. The answer of course, is that they are kept afloat by the BBC and the other media outlets, the exception being The National. A reminder that the UK has possibly the most effective Government propaganda networks in the world bar none.
In other words, the Scottish branch of the UK Labour Party could be made up of members of the Chinese Communist Party, but as long as they have the backing of the BBC, it would make no difference. Such is the hypnotic effect of the BBC on so much of the electorate. It’s also known as brainwashing.
The Establishment simply MUST have opposition to the SNP in Scotland’s parliament, and will do anything to try to derail the SNP Scottish Government, including providing full support to the three Unionist Alliance parties in Scotland. This includes organised, orchestrated collusion at elections, and voting in the Holyrood parliament itself.
And all because the British Establishment is currently fighting for its very life.
Scotland is England’s Golden Goose. Never forget it.
mike d says 3:04 pm
O/t just had a Scottish £10 note refused at r s mcolls at Poole bus station
To be fair you are in a foreign country after all. Pop over to Brownsea island, its nice there.
O/T
Why do all the Tory msp’s at Holyrood speak with weird accents ??
I find it really hard to make out what they are saying half the time ?
I know it doesn’t really matter cause they talk a lot of crap anyway, its just so annoying.
Macart says:
15 November, 2016 at 2:34 pm
@Clapper57
“Mr McDonnell has a problem then. The UK doesn’t have ‘a’ population”.
Yes Macart but perhaps Scotland’s population , in McDonnell’s opinion, is too ‘wee’ thus Scotland’s destiny needs the ‘broad shoulders’ of Unionism to support us and lead us.
Personally I hold no regard for people like McDonnell who play the political unionist CARD thus trying to DEAL such a duff HAND to Scotland……what a JOKER…perhaps he should stop trying to STACK the DECK against Scotland and SHUFFLE off. You have to HAND it to him though he trying….very trying. Actually I do think for a politician he has a very Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa POKER face…I just cannae read him when I watch him on TV , his face is quite inanimate when he speaks a bit like a FACE CARD….. and obviously he thinks Scotland are not playing with a FULL DECK….well him and his party certainly don’t hold the TRUMP CARD in Scotland…now or any time soon….for sure.
British = second class English.
The English don’t regard themselves as English AND British. They see themselves as English. The have no concept of South Britain. It is England. ‘British’ is but a useful appelation reserved exclusively by the imperial masters for ProudScotButts. Makes them feel part of the big gang. Except they are but useful idiots.
So, you regard yourself as British? Then you want to be second class English.
I’ll be first class Scottish. Always.
@Clapper57 says: 15 November, 2016 at 12:40 pm:
“Since when did ‘Unionist’ become a dirty word?”
2 May 1707.
” … Is ‘British’ more palatable?”
No. The two terms bear no relationship to each other. Except, perhaps in the minds of brainwashed Scots and the Entire Westminster Establishment.
“We are currently within a union of nations”,
No we are not in a Union of Nations. We are in a United Kingdom of only two former independent and equally sovereign Kingdoms.
” … and to remain as such we are then part of a union”
Yes we are in a union but that union is titled the United Kingdom and the agreement that begat it only has two equally sovereign Kingdoms as signatories.
There was no union of nations and no union of countries. The only partners in the union are kingdoms and one of them was composed of three countries or nations when it signed up to the union.
” … to support remaining within the union surely makes one a unionist”
Aye! It makes one as about the same kind of Unionist who gets married to one woman and moves another two in that he also calls his wives and then treats the legal wife just like he treats his other two mistress’.
The Union is without doubt legally a united Kingdom but is being run by the country of England masquerading as the United Kingdom but legislating for the United Kingdom with English law. It funds only England itself as The United Kingdom directly with United Kingdom funds and it devolves its country of England sovereign powers unequally to what it perceives as its three underling and submissive satellite states.
Yet the actual Treaty of Union that made the United Kingdom was a deal signed by only two kingdoms who were equally sovereign.
This set-up we find ourselves in is the country of England lording it over the two countries it actually did annex and treating its legal partner as if it had also annexed the Kingdom it signed up as being a partner with.
I’d hate to gamble on what he’s attempting to sell as a safe bet, that’s fer sure. I’ll stay pat with what I know and call on the next round.
O/T Brexit and the memo leaked to the Times saying the government is in chaos.
Hell mend them! Did it never occur to the Tories, WM and their civil servants that Leave might actually win?
Preparation for Brexit is a load of nonsense. There are three possible outcomes.
It gets cancelled.
The deal the EU put on the table is accepted by the UK, after some minor negotiation tweeks.
The UK walks away into isolationism, possible after rejecting the EU offer.
Leopards and spots, spring to mind, when Dugdale is mentioned.
Clydebuilt says:
15 November, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Found this over at “Towards Indyref2?…… It’s a survey on media in Scotland….. Traditional and “Modern” ….. University of Strathclyde…… link to hass.eu.qualtrics.com
_______________________________
Hmmm, It’s a load of old bollocks. It is full of leading questions and assumptions. If you have never read some of the news outlets in the last question, how can you answer between 1 and 10?
It doesn’t allow for this at all.
@Robert Peffers @ 3.34pm
Hi Robert…..was awaiting your comments re me constitutional ignorance …..however in my humble defense my eagerness to ridicule the Labour branch office is insatiable…though I now concede the inaccurate terms….me mouth is still watering in revengeful anticipation…and yes this is my defense.
Consider me now educated, corrected but not hindered from making same inaccurate comments in future should I feel the need….forgive me for I know not what I have done and will do……. but simply know me as one who never misses a chance to twist me words and terms…. even if I commit constitutional sacrilege.
I had a Sovereign once and sold it for a mint….there is a joke there…I hope.
Re multi wives in Union analogy is that no polygamy ?
Have a good evening Robert …and respect to your vast knowledge.
ps. used term constitutional many times above, if incorrect then let me suffer in solitary silence and ignorance …..or not….. lol
Owen Jones o the Graun. This isn’t good at all and in any way. Lefty England’s all over the shop post Bomber Blair and Crash Gordo red toryboy reign and SLab are on their way out. Yet its not hard to see what’s coming Scottish democracy’s way soon.
Trump is bad, very bad, in fact so bad,
“Democrats should filibuster and obstruct, using the same tactics Republicans have deployed against Democrats. Protesters should mobilise in every town and city. Civil disobedience should be employed where necessary. Don’t just do it for yourself, America. The fate of the rest of the world will be determined by your choices.”
We know well what it is you stand for.
For Britain and not for Scotland.
Worse than that, you seem to be actively working AGAINST Scotland on many occasions.
‘Labour Uncut’
Had to have a double-take at reading that one (no sniggering at the back).
O/t,
I have been doing a lot of digging around oil revenues and let me tell you I think we have been properly had,
The Great David Blane nor Dynamo the illusionist could pull off a neater con.
Want to hear more ? I know oil is becoming a bore,but this is good.
Anyone else notice the BBC Scotland has a week on looking at Scotland…last night was about inequality…the lovely Jacqui Bird gave us the line
“Since the crash, inequality has been of interest”
No mention of Blair and Browns input of course…
Labour in Scotland…self preservation society!
Capella at 243pm,
The idea of a ‘wee treaty book’ explaining The actuality of the treaty of union, rather than the current situation of England lording it over Scotland, and generally treating us like a colony, is a good one. I think their are many, many people in Scotland (and even more in England) who know next to nothing of the nature of the treaty aside from the pro England p*sh you hear on the blatantly propagandist BBC, or from red/blue Tory MP’s.
I also think you are correct regarding many MSP’s. I do think they know nothing of the true nature of the treaty, and Scotland’s place within it as an EQUAL partner. I think the same can also be said of most unionists too – which is ever so slightly ironic.
The link below is to a nice piece I’ve highlighted before, written by Scott Minto during the indyref. It goes through the steps leading to the union treaty of 1707, between the sovereign kingdom of Scotland and that of England.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Capella No need for a wee treaty book, Robbie the Pict published one 20 odd years ago entitled called Attempted Murder it was a limited edition of 1000 but I’m sure it can be found!
It’s copywrite free,
Bob Mack at 423pm,
This oil business sounds interesting..
@Bob Mack
If you could keep it simple for slow-types like me.
@Clapper57 says: 15 November, 2016 at 4:02 pm:
“Hi Robert…..was awaiting your comments re me constitutional ignorance.”
The whole point, Clapper57, is that it is NOT ignorance but a lifetime of targeted propaganda aimed specifically at you, (and of course everyone else in the World).
If you listen to any Prime Minister, (alive, dead or dead drunk in the HOL), you will notice how they liberally sprinkle their outpourings with such terms, (and not just Liberal pe’ers), in their (Err!, outpourings.
It is Britain this, Britain the other and British for everything. But although much of what they speak of is indeed British it is no more British than the Non-UK legislatures of Man, Jersey, Guernsey or the Republic.
It has always been so. Nelson at Trafalgar, “England expects …”, The Dunkirk, “British Expeditionary Force”. Normandy and the British Army. Then we have such gems as The British Rock of Gibraltar. It is nothing new for did not the English monarchy force the Scottish lords to sign the Ragman Rolls?
It began when the Romans left South Britain and the South Britons invited in the Germanic tribes to protect the South Britons and we have had their Anglo-Saxon descendants, in one guise or another, (the Normans were so called as a corruption of the name Norsemen), as the English, (Anglish), aristocracy and the Royals ever since.
Some still sit in the HOL today as hereditary peers. It is in their genes to want to rule the World and with the so called, “British”, Empire they damned near did.
This caper and the brainwashing propaganda has been around a very long time. Unless we make conscious efforts to NOT fall for it then Scottish Independence may never quite make it to reality.
Every time someone, deliberately or just by habit, misuses such terms is a step back towards English over lordship and needs to be drawn attention to.
Listen everybody get off Kezia,s back. She is the best recruiting agent the SNP in Scotland has at the moment
Ok Bob, I am in
🙂
Anyone else notice the BBC Scotland has a week on looking at Scotland
Not me. After a lifetime of being told that their Scotland region’s a murderous, drug scarred battle field, doomed to destruction if we don;t vote SLabour, Two and Half Men repeats are far more interesting, much more than botox bird or old smirky Brewer.
Still no news, from rancid The Graun, in their Scotland region of greater England, where everyone knows your name and nothing ever happens, except SNP bad.
wwwtheguardian.com/uk/scotland
WoS twitter RT’s of Macternan Predicts is really funny today though.
My oh my, that Macternan’s a fcuking idiot.
When anyone tells you Scotland is to small to survive if we had independence tell them to read the Macrone report and as for Dugdale changing her mind sure she tried to join theS.N.P. Before she joined labour so she must have believed in independence at one time but now she has seen the light ? Aye right as for Odnonell the S.N.P. Being a threat to the vurnable in Scotland so they are with their free prescriptions free student fees etc no Mr., Odonell it’s you and your type who ars the real threat ? The S.N.P. Do practise some thing yous have never done it is called the politics of fair play
Sorry should have read Macdonell I think?
@Robert Louis.
Indeed it is. The process involved “reverse engineering “if you will.
I checked with the organisation that is the umbrella organisation of all the UK refineries, and each and every day they send out 45 million litres of petroleum, and 77 million litres of diesel. I am not including things like Kerosene and other distillates that also gather VAT revenue at different rates. This is 363 days a year.
Given that revenue on petroleum and diesel is around 58p, you do the maths plus I also have the revenue figure for the other crude products.
Yet Gers focuses on the N Sea to the exclusion of all other imports of crude oil into the UK from which the Chacellor derives income. It matters not to him whether the oil is from the N Sea or Russia. His revenues per barrel remain the same.
If Scotland is due an 8% share of revenues why is it only £63 million ? They have focused us on the N Sea whilst bringing in other streams that they do not count as being shared with Scotland. Why is that ?
The lowest figure I could find from industry sources was 785,000 barrels per day from the N Sea. It is currently climbing to 940,000 barrels per day
Sorry should have read Macdonell i think ?
@Robert Peffers
“The whole point, Clapper57, is that it is NOT ignorance but a lifetime of targeted propaganda aimed specifically at you, (and of course everyone else in the World)”.
Hi Robert , my remarks were flippant in my response to you and I really really am clued up re the propaganda.
However in my initial comment at 12.40pm I was mirroring the Unionist term used in the Rev’s article by Labour MSP’s et al to make a point within the context of their use of the word ‘unionist’.
I really do know the existence of the over use of the term ‘British’ in it’s many forms none more so than the incessant over use of the term Team GB at the Olympics via the MSM,Great British this and Great British that etc and I am aware that this unsubtle method is a systematic brainwashing of Scots who are as yet undecided and easily taken in and also those who have already been programmed to see, think and speak British and who aspire to maintain a Union that only exists within their British mentality.
Anyway let us unite in our ultimate quest as divided we shall surely fall.
Have a good evening Mr Peffers .
O/T. Well not really.
About 10 minutes ago the SNP Scottish government hoped to unite Holyrood’s unionist parties behind a call to “fully protect” Scotland’s place in the single market.
After the chamber debate, the unionist Labour abstained, (there’s a surprise), and unionist Tories and unionist Lib Dems voted against the SNP motion. More surprises. Who would have thought it?
Says it all really
I stumbled into Scotland 2016 last night for the first time in ages, and besides the usual boring pap was an amusing little barney between BLiS activist Stephen Low and The Great McTernan. It was definitely popcorn time.
McT: “Labour has to be opposed to independence, utterly opposed. Labour suffered in the last election because they were ambiguous.”
What?
Low: “Labour should certainly be opposing independence… But that is – it may seem like a small distinction – but that is different from identifying yourself as Unionist. […] Labour should be standing straightforwardly for working people, and saying it’s
pounds in pockets that matter, not flags and national identities.”
A very small distinction. In fact, a non-distinction, a terminological inexactitude. He’s still a Unionist, he just doesn’t want to be called one.
Like all the rest of his ilk, he just can’t grasp that genuine national sovereignity with full democratic accountability is the only way to ensure that working people have money in their pockets. Simples, really.
McT: “Middle Scotland has been stolen from Labour.”
Oh, pardon me but there’s that Labour self-entitlement showing again. Our support wasn’t stolen, you serially abused it then discarded it like a used rag.
McT: “There may well be a second referendum, the SNP deserve to lose it, they will lose it.”
Och aye, that’s a dead cert then!
Note it’s all about “the SNP”, not about principles, or solidarity, or the people of Scotland, just his usual past-sell-by-date blinkered tribalism.
McT: “Alex Rowley is well known as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Gordon Brown Enterprises. He’s done this because he’s on manouevres ’cause Gordon Brown is on manoeuvres in Scotland.”
Ooh, it’s Labour handbags at dawn, then. But that’s about as near a public admission as we’re likely to get that Vow2, precisely like its predecessor, is just another cunning plot, another “manoeuvre”.
Really, just how daft do these people take us to be?
What we’re being offered is hard BritNat or soft BritNat. But BritNat just the same. Neither worth a candle.
More Labour clarity this afternoon.. its the Union and Party first.
From The Guardian 2 July 2016
In her first major speech since Brexit, Dugdale referred to proposals being investigated by senior Labour figures for Scotland and Northern Ireland to have separate federated membership of the EU.
link to theguardian.com
Scottish Parliament 15 November 2016
Labour MSPs abstain rather than support SNP Scottish Government’s attempts to protect Scotland’s place in the Single Market.
@Robert Louis @Lenny Hartly
Many thanks for the links on the Treaty of Union. I’ve bookmarked the Scott Minto page and downloaded the Robbie the Pict book “Attempted Murder” as a pdf from google.
link to tinyurl.com
It’s also on Amazon. So off for a coffee and to read the texts.
Sinky@ 0546pm
Aye Sinky , Dugdale ” telt” what to “think and do” by her London paymasters
( what’s new?)
Clapper 57
If I am reading Robert Peffers right and I am sure he will be the first to correct me if I am not.
He is well aware that most commentators on here do have a working knowledge of how the Union is framed and the propaganda around the terms used.(mostly thanks to him)
It’s also very hard to inject tone when you’re typing here.
But as I see it Robert is simply taking every opportunity to explain the set up with a view to informing new readers of how it actually works.
While doing his bit to remind us to try to use the correct terms and not the terms that the establishment insert into our discourse.
I hope you can also see it that way,because while we are dealing with a serious suject,sometimes it can be quite entertaining to try and spot a comment he will come in on.
…..Utter Pish.. is becoming a right of passage around here.
@Liz g says at 5.56pm
“Utter Pish.. is becoming a right of passage around here”.
“It’s also very hard to inject tone when you’re typing here”.
“it can be quite entertaining to try and spot a comment he will come in on”.
Hey Liz , sometimes Tone can be deaf….however point taken….bit harsh of you to call my comments utter Pish though lol…on a plus note…glad you are being entertained. Again lol.
ps. Tone above I am using is humorous BTW……………granted a bad attempt….just in case my tone is misinterpreted as aggressive….hey yes “I can see it that way”…no sweat.
Have a nice evening Liz
Note to all : Please feel free to git yir tuppence worth in as to why you think I am an arsehole…….joking….only joking Liz lol…sorry I could not resist…..though laugh on me when others do add their tuppence worth und the lol IS on me.
Robert Peffers says:
.. which is absolutely shocking. Against!? If they didn’t like the wording or didn’t want support the SNP, that’s one thing. Abstain. But against the single market, the LibDem?
They have utterly and completely lost everything they stood for.
Does head office know what the kids in the branch are up to? The LibDems opposing staying in the single market.
usual biased output from Jackie Bird on tonight’s
” Pacific piffle show”
I.e. ” Divisions at Holyrood over Brexit”
No mention of the facts ( a 65 to 32 majority for Keith Browns motion . That’s 2 to 1 in favour)
OK Jackie , the next time that a vote at Westminster or Holyrood on absolutely
anything does not result in a unanimous win for the Conservative or SNP government , I will expect ” no mention from you of the fact that the government actually won or lost the vote ” .
How about just ” reporting TO Scotland ” the facts for once ??
STV reported Scottish Government won the vote today.
BBC reported it several times as “divisions in the Scottish Parliament over Brexit vote” without providing the actual voting figures and implied the vote was narrow but only won because of the Greens.
watched Jackie Bird on the news and was left in no doubt that SNP supported by the Greens had just scraped the vote. This woman is no longer fit to be a news reader .. Misreporting Scotland .. very definitely.
galamcennalath @ 18:39
Ach, they have jettisoned every principle they ever claimed to stand for now. Quite a feat even in these post-truth times.
And exposed themselves as being merely Unionist shills. Slightly repackaged Tories. What a comedown.
I can’t see how anyone with even a shred of self-respect who is a party member could possibly not tear up that membership card now. As for the general public, why vote for Wee Willie the monkey when you can vote for Ruthie the organ grinder?
Can anyone tell me if any of the Unionist MSPs backed the motion?
Was it 100% BLiS abstention, 100% Fib Dem against the motion??
I’m assuming it was 100% Tory against and 100% Green for the motion.
Tried to find out on Scots Parliament website but with nae luck.
@Liz g says: 15 November, 2016 at 5:56 pm
“He is well aware that most commentators on here do have a working knowledge of how the Union is framed and the propaganda around the terms used.(mostly thanks to him)
It’s also very hard to inject tone when you’re typing here.
But as I see it Robert is simply taking every opportunity to explain the set up with a view to informing new readers of how it actually works.”
No, Liz g, You are not wrong. However there is another wee factor at play. Not even my own family can ever tell when I’m having them on and I have a wicked sense of humour.
I can wind them up something rotten and they can never tell whether I’m being serious or not. How I keep a straight face sometimes and don’t laugh out loud I really don’t know.
On the subject of reminding the Wingers to use the correct terms I know only too well that the reminders from me get no where near the number of times they are hearing the propaganda aimed at them by the unionist cabal.
Seriously though, if we independence supporters are using such terms as British when we mean United Kingdom then we can hardly complain when we are bombarded with Establishment propaganda.
Clapper 57 @ 6.19
Sorry I took so long to reply had to go out for a bit.
Nice to come back to a bit of humour though.
I always try to read everything as if it’s said tounge in cheek on here
Mainly because my own punctuation is so bad I can’t get tone across,myself and worry something will be taken the wrong way.
I also assume their has to be a good level of dry Scottish humour here anyway.
It is a bit of a guilty pleasure though, when I see someone say something and waiting to see if Robert will take the opportunity to post about how the Soverenty thing works.
He is brilliant at turning the littlest remarks into a lesson.
I have actually thought about suggesting Soverenty Bingo.
But some people can be touchy….(not you)…so mibbi not.
@ Dave, the BBC’s glass is aye hauf empty.
Just found out that:
Tories went with the “Get on with the day job” angle from the Tories with a bit of “UK Market more important than EU to Scotland” for good measure.
All Tories voted against.
BLiS went for the “UK Market more important than EU to Scotland” with “access to the single market rather than full membership being more realistic”.
All BLiS abstained (perhaps Ian Murray as advisor in action there).
Wee Wullie wants a referendum on the terms of May’s Brexit.
All Fib Dems voted against.
WTF Seriously.
Definitely the Union and Central Office Funding is more important to these jokers than protecting their electorates and Scotland’s interests.
@Liz g @ 9.25pm
Hey Liz…no worries glad you took it the way intended…with no offence meant…only banter.
I am not so precious……..HOWEVER…………only joking.
As for YOU Mr Peffers……………..only joking.
Have a good evening both of you……OR ELSE……..only joking.
Robert Peffers @ 9.15
I just love the fact that wither your serious or not Robert,you are using their own methods (repetition of the narrative)against them.
Mair Power tae yir keyboard Sir.
Clapper 57 @ 9.59
Nae worries,my friend.
We hiv tae laugh,or else we will greet.X
Jockanes Wind Talker @ 9.48
I had read (might have been on the other thread) that the reason for the Unionist party’s voting the way they did ,was so that Holyrood can’t present a United front to Brussels over the single market.
Sounds plausible enough,question is are they really that smart?
Liz g says at 10:09 pm
Jockanes Wind Talker @ 9.48
I
“the reason for the Unionist party’s voting the way they did ,was so that Holyrood can’t present a United front to Brussels over the single market.”
“Are they really that smart?”
They might not be (Wullie, BLiS definitely aren’t) but with so much at stake of being lost by rUK if Scotland becomes independent I wouldn’t put anything past the Establishment.
A little more detail here:
link to indyref2.scot
It’s like being an unwilling spectator to a 3rd rate magic show where at least half the audience knows that it’s being subjected to tricks that are normally used to baffle and manipulate beliefs and perceptions.
Sleight of hand, misdirection to cause distortion and illusory precepts for a mesmerised audience to keep them docile.
In a second political issues can be conjured up or made to disappear for whatever illusion is required-Brexit is bad, Brexit is good using confabulation to deflect and misdirect from the switch.
But…to keep them in the magic the audience should be visually inattentive and unable to follow social cues, oblivious to choice being forced without the awareness of the influence. Since Indyref1 the UKOK magicians and their talentless sidekicks haven’t realised that this audience is visually attentive, has altered its assumptions and no longer has false memories.
This audience has managed to solve a huge puzzle and will make its own choices that are not based on magical thinking but realism. This audience no longer appreciates the decoupling of words and actions and isn’t hanging around to watch the show-in fact it wants a refund.
Just like that.
One_Scot says:
15 November, 2016 at 12:26 pm
It’s true what they say, you learn something new everyday.
Not only is John McTernan an idiot, he is also an unprincipled low life mouthpiece.
……
So, what was the NEW thing you learned, you forgot to say…..!
Slightly off topic, but you may be interested to read this about John McTernan’s role in a possible huge Australian fraud involving Julia Gillard (he was her press officer at the time).
It’s all somewhat complicated, but keep an eye on it as it seems to be developing fast…
link to michaelsmithnews.com
Wanker McTernan should concentrate his mind on not plagiarising the thoughts and sayings of others – as outlined in the current Private Eye