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In remembrance

Posted on November 13, 2016 by

I haven’t worn a poppy in 20-odd years, for my own reasons.

But this chilling clip, from the 2005 BBC series “Auschwitz, The Nazis And The Final Solution”, is the most important thing about war that humanity should never forget.


“Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone.

Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us.”


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    349 to “In remembrance”

    1. Brian Ritchie says:

      Ah, Stu’s put it on Vimeo – it’s fine now. thanks! BTW aufie, thanks for the tip also. I didn’t know that.

    2. Bob Mack says:

      I have not worn a poppy for years. I contribute my small change most days in the local shop which has an Earl Haig collection tin which sits on the counter most of the year. The women in the shop do not understand why I never take a poppy for my apparel.

      I think having seen them on fighter jets and found them being made with various parts of munitions has reinforced my reluctance . They have become commercial with such items as cufflinks , scarfs and ties being marketed.
      Only last week I heard that Tesco were selling a “poppyroni” pizza. It is too much.

      The poppy also singularly fails to symbolise ALL the war dead, who did not die in action ,but who were murdered and butchered just the same without any” glory” in how they died. Afraid ,alone and abandoned.

      The military appear to have consolidated remembrance day into their ranks,but it does no justice to those citizens who lost their lives for either being the wrong religion,the wrong race,or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      Sadly poets like Rupert Brooke almost glorified war and they are the ones most quoted.

    3. sandycraig says:

      Heartbreaking clip. Sadly things like that have happened in many conflicts since.

      We have learnt nothing.

    4. mogabee says:

      Sad how much of the wrong we remember instead of the right. 🙁

    5. sandycraig says:

      Bob 3.48
      Agree. Most of my life I have worn a poppy proudly, but this year I have been a bit reluctant. I am also a Hearts supporter and have attended the service at Haymarket more than once. Always a very moving and respectful occasion.

      But when that poppy is shown on a fighter jet or tank it loses all significance for me.

      There is also the oft quoted statement “they gave their lives”. Well no they didn’t, their lives were taken from them by the folly of war.

    6. Ronnie says:

      I find the whole undignified industry that’s recently grown up flogging tacky poppy branded tat extremely distasteful.

    7. john ferguson says:

      Yesterday I stood while the Flowers of the Forest was being played and had difficulty knowing that at that same time innocent people were being bombed by our military. We are told why but I don’t believe a word. Our troops do as ordered in good faith that their superiors know better. No one can doubt the respect the people have for our troops. It is the same people who have throughout the ages that have sacrificed the flowers of the forest for their own greed Will there be an end to this madness? will our new foreign secretary or his ilk calm the troubled waters? Our remembrance day service is in safe hands, it will go on forever.

    8. TD says:

      So while we remember the horrors of last century, let’s consider for a moment the sentiments being expressed today. Trump says he will deport Mexicans. Why? Because they are to blame for anything and everything, just like the Jews were. And Muslims – they also are to blame.

      In the UK, it’s immigrants. Will we deport them? Well maybe if our negotiations with the EC don’t go well. They are a bargaining chip. Let’s not consider for a moment that they are also human beings with lives to lead.

      The similarities between the simplistic solutions of today for society’s problems and the final solution implemented by Germany are too great for my liking.

    9. Skybolt says:

      I always struggle to believe that the powers that be did not know what was happening (and where).
      What the hell was the UK’s (and her allies) agenda?

      I guess I’ll never be allowed to know.

    10. heraldnomore says:

      I’m told our FM is a ‘shameful ignoramus’ for leading our nation in remembrance at St Giles rather than in London. WTF.

    11. And this very morning, our Glorious State Broacaster preceeded the showing of the ceremony at the Cenotaph in London with Marr’s interview with…

      …Marine Le Pen.

    12. winifred mccartney says:

      All of us remember our dead especially the conscripted troups of the first and second world wars, but we should also remember the families, the children and those whose lives were changed forever by acts of war on both sides of every conflict – I feel the marching and the gloryfying of war is too much for me to take especially when you see how much of the charitable giving is eaten up in administration and ridiculous salaries for CEO’s etc (not just in military charities). We have an obligation to look after people who have been damaged phycially or mentally by conflict. How many ex-soldiers and now homeless. If government call servuces to conflict they should have a responsibility to look after them for as long as they need help, homes, money and care.

      Maybe more of us should be wearing a white poppy and have a real longing for peace – which does not mean doing nothing but speaking out when we see wrongdoing, bullying and aggression and governments misusing their power. For evil to prevail good men only need to do nothing. Truer now than ever.

    13. Smallaxe says:

      Words of Wisdom from John Lennon on this subject.

      Peace Always

    14. heraldnomore says:

      … and it came from within the Jewish community

    15. HandandShrimp says:

      I have always worn a poppy but in the last couple of years I have made my donation but not picked up the poppy. It has been hijacked and no longer is a remembrance for the awful waste of young lives particularly the senseless slaughter on the fields of Flanders without which there may never have been a Hitler or Stalin in power.

      I hope this madness passes and once again the poppy will be a mark of sorrow and remembrance and not a political football and litmus test of political correctness for the conservative with a small c amongst us. Until then I will pay my respects personally and unadorned.

    16. Dan Huil says:

      I don’t wear a poppy because it has been hijacked and demeaned by britnats.

    17. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      This clip reminds me of what my Dad, who fought in 39-45, once told me, that in the wake of the carnage of 14-18 most people of his generation dreaded the thought of another war, but most also realised that a confrontation with the evil of Nazism was inevitable.

      The war did not bring about Auschwitz and its like, Auschwitz and its like brought about the war.

      A lesson for the present day also.

    18. John H. says:

      When I was a child growing up in Glasgow there were eight houses in our close. Three of them were occupied by elderly spinsters. The men they would have married were killed in the Great War.

    19. heedtracker says:

      Remembrance Sunday 2016, commemorating those who sacrificed their lives fighting fascism, BBC broadcast an interview with a fascist.

      Pinned Tweet
      The Andrew Marr Show ?@MarrShow 7h7 hours ago
      .@AndrewMarr9: Why I interviewed Marine Le Pen #marr

      Marr doesn’t explain why because he doesn’t need to. Fascists are always around, planning, waiting for their time.

    20. shiregirl says:


      I, like many others lost family members in camps in Germany. I also had family members on my other side die in service and in the Quintinshill crash.

      I refuse to wear a poppy- I never have as I feel it is not representative of my beliefs. The symbolism of the poppy has been seized upon and at this time of year, it appears almost mandatory to wear one. I may not be popular for this, but seeing old service men in full regalia and disabled ex service persons selling poppies leaves a bad taste. A personal opinion, but it sends me in the opposite direction.

      I’ve never seen a white poppy for sale. I would buy one.

    21. Gary45% says:

      I wear a white poppy, as I feel the red poppy has been hijacked by the empire yoons and “celebrities!!”
      It used to be only a few days before the 11th that you wore one but as my wife says its become like Christmas, celebrated weeks in advance by the media, and hell mend you if you are on TV not wearing one.
      A friend of mine bought a white one in a pub in Inverness a week past Saturday, he was then abused by a couple of Rangers supporters (up for the Ross County game), they tore it from his jacket and called him a ("Tractor" - Ed) etc, before giving it god save the queen whilst doing Nazi salutes.!!!!! I kid you not.
      I will always take my personal moment of reflection for the fallen,
      but not to highjack the day, the world should hang its head in shame with the ongoing situation in Palestine, every one of us is guilty by turning our heads the other way, for me the red poppy is in danger of becoming a meaningless PC fashion statement.

    22. Liz g says:

      OT kind of
      Given the clip above makes any right thinking person wonder what they would do if a group were targeted in that way here and in these times?
      I thought it might be appropriate to give a shout out for the Safety Pin campaign.

      It’s mostly an American response to Trump but it’s still a good idea.

      What you do is attach an ordinary safety pin on your jacket.
      We have all got them you don’t need to buy anything!
      This is a visable signal to immigrants and Scot’s of colour that you are safe,they don’t have to try to work out if you are likely to abuse them,and you would not join in with any who would.
      You know the kind of thing,like choosing a friendly face to sit next to on a bus ect.

      That’s what is attached where my poppy would have been.
      For me that’s the way to really honour the war dead,and for more than just one day.

    23. McBoxheid says:

      The Earl Haig Fund: A fund set up by warmongers who shirk their responsibility to look ex servicemen and women who were fucked up by the “Great” War. A fund that warmongers still support, because it means they don’t have to look after those that are still being fucked up today. Without the British Legion, I would not have got my war pension after the Gulf War. The army gave me fuck all help and even cost my unemployment benefit after they dropped me like a hot potato.

      There is still nobody to look after service personnel after a conflict, except their unit, which is not trained to help someone affected. It is a get out of jail free card and an excuse to glorify war every time that fund raising gets under way.

      This fund is still as necessary as it was in 1918, because they still don’t give a shit.

      Yes, the poppy appeal has been highjacked, but service personnel need it more than ever with all the cuts and dodging of responsibility that goes with all the warmongering.

      It is funny that the arseholes that glorify war the most are also the ones that avoid it.

      Lest we forget “the old lie”

      Dulce et decorum est, pro Patria mori

    24. Gary45% says:

      The Gellions Bar in Inverness have them.

    25. McBoxheid says:

      Look after in line 2

    26. John H. says:

      McBoxheid 5.13pm.

      That’s one of the things that sickens me about the British State. They talk about “heroes” and “our boys”. Then when they’re finished with them they are kicked aside without a thought.

      It’s ok though, Harry has a new girlfriend.

    27. shiregirl says:

      Gary45% says:
      The Gellions Bar in Inverness have them.

      Cheers 🙂

    28. ScottishPsyche says:

      When Trump was elected I thought he won’t be that bad. The apparatus of government will restrict his excesses and rein him in. If he starts to renege on his promises he will be out of office so fast.

      But then I looked back at Hitler’s time in Germany just as he was elected and how his eccentric behaviour was normalized and appeased by governments and how he immediately used his power to surround himself with even worse people who could quietly get on with doing the worst things imaginable.

      I don’t wear a poppy but is there any point now? We have forgotten all the supposed lessons associated with that time.

    29. mike cassidy says:

      And if these people get their way, there will be even more need for remembrance

      And the James Woolsey mentioned.

      Well, look at just one of his current jobs!

    30. Bill McLean says:

      How dare foul Britain leave the care of their wounded partially to charity. How many other so-called modern, wealthy countries do this??

    31. Auld Rock says:

      Poppies on fighter jets – maybe now people will understand why FIFA banned wearing on their strips last Friday.

      Auld Rock

    32. sarah says:

      I too reluctantly bought a red poppy [not offered the white], feeling that it is wrong to be forced out of doing so by the hijacking of it by hysterical media etc. And because the service personnel do still need our help because the government refuses to accept the responsibility. I’m sure when Scotland is independent we will do better.

      At our village memorial ceremony today it was rather worrying that the Saltire was missing – only the Union flag and the British Legion were displayed.

    33. Black Joan says:

      In the 1970s, at a school near a home where nuns cared for disabled war veterans, a girl was told off for wearing a poppy in her hair. Some people would consider it disrespectful, said the teacher.

      Now we have poppy bling everywhere, sponsored by Lockheed Martin, painted on jet fighters, made out of recycled shell-cases, plastered on T shirts proclaiming the child wearer to be a future soldier.

      And we have endless wars, some directly traceable to the 1914-18 “settlement”.

      I used to wear a white poppy, then discovered that, paradoxically, it provoked some to violence. A compromise was to wear both a red and a white one. This year that became impossible because of Lockheed Martin etc.

      So, in common with what seems to be a vast majority, I wear none.

      But I remain haunted by the writings of Charles Hamilton Sorley, Violet Jacob, Vera Brittain, Siegfried Sassoon, Wilfred Owen, Robert Graves and many more. See, for example, the anthology In Flanders Fields — Scottish Poetry and Prose of the First World War, edited by Trevor Royle.

      When will we ever learn?

    34. Artyhetty says:

      ‘War is a racket’.

      In case anyone has not read this.

    35. willie fae kilwinning says:

      THE POPPY:-

      I am not a badge of honour,
      I am not a racist smear,
      I am not a fashion statement,
      To be worn but once a year,
      I am not glorification,
      of conflict or of war,
      I am not a paper ornament,
      a token,
      I am more.
      I am a loving memory,
      of a father or a son,
      a permanent reminder,
      of each and every one.
      I’m paper or enamel,
      I’m old or shining new,
      I’m a way of saying thank you,
      to every one of you.
      I am a simple poppy,
      A reminder to you all,
      that courage, faith and honour,
      will stand where heroes fall.

    36. Liz g says:

      Willie Fae killwinning 6.06
      It would be pretty to think so.
      Sadly a fair few canny see it like that anymore.
      The poppy has been co-opted by those with nae honour.
      And some would not dis honour the war dead by wearing one.

    37. Liz g says:

      And just out of curiosity can anyone find out how much the CEO of the Earl Haig fund is paid these days.
      Are there any links to the BBC who are helping with a lot of air time to raise revenue for him/ aye right.. her..?

    38. chris kilby says:


    39. Phronesis says:

      ‘Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding’

      Albert Einstein

      ‘The monuments to the “Unknown soldier” after World War 1 bear testimony to the then still existing need for glorification for finding a “who”, an identifiable somebody whom four years of mass slaughter should have revealed. The frustration of this wish and the unwillingness to resign oneself to the brutal fact that the agent of the war was actually nobody inspired the erection of the monuments to the “unknown”, to all those whom the war failed to make known and robbed thereby, not of their achievement, but of their human dignity”

      Hannah Arendt ‘The Human Condition’

      The bravest, strongest and most dignified leaders (who merit leadership status) understand and articulate the language of peace.

      Pax optima rerum

    40. chris kilby says:

      Something else Alan Moore wrote once: a bayonet is a tool with a worker on both ends of it.

    41. chris kilby says:

      Britain, America, Europe, the world. We are all so hopelessly divided, I fear war is inevitable within a decade or so.

    42. Hamish100 says:

      THIS MORNING- Church of Scotland service to the intro theme of “in Englands green and pleasant land….” we are all brits. Flags brought in British Legion, BB, Guides etc no saltire anywhere…the sermon– british fought for freedom in both World Wars (I think I am on safe ground to argue against that stance for WW1) then some more british propaganda, then God Save the Q… Po faced Church member asked why I hadn’t sung GStheQ as if it is a legal requirement. They way things are going we might be forced too. I responded that I wont sing a so called hymn that basically castigates my nation. Minister preaches Love and at the same time supports those in armed conflict. Poppy politicised ? Certainly, but I wear it for the fallen and dare I say to get up the nose of those who think Independence supporters, Greens, Socialists and others have no rights. It annoys them. Maybe next year they will play Highland Cathedral.

    43. Tamas Marcuis says:

      It has always sickened me how people in the West say “died in Auschwitz” as if it was some kind of random tragedy.
      Perhaps you could all do my family members the honor of saying the real word. Murdered.

      I do not wear a poppy for the simple reason that when I put out crosses in Princes’ Street Edinburgh a couple of years ago the two men running it picked them up and threw them in the trash. Apparently having slightly German sounding Yiddish names meant it “was no for yous”.

    44. Glamaig says:

      Phronesis says:
      13 November, 2016 at 6:37 pm

      “all those whom the war failed to make known and robbed thereby, not of their achievement, but of their human dignity”

      It is truly shocking how many were just obliterated by shellfire, no body, no grave, nothing. In fact in the British army its 526816, almost half of those killed.

      And for what exactly?

    45. chris kilby says:

      It happened before. It will happen again. It’s happening right now. These things don’t happen overnight. They happen gradually, incrementally, in stages. And unlike history, we’ve got no excuse this time cos it has happened before. Within living memory too.

    46. cearc says:


      ‘I always struggle to believe that the powers that be did not know what was happening (and where).

      My mother was at a small, secular school. As most schools were christian they had a high proportion of jewish girls.

      The school trip for ’36, which had been planned a few years earlier, was ‘The Great Cathedrals of Germany.

      In ’35 they a sent a letter to all the parents saying that in view of the situation that they would not be able to take any girls with even one jewish grandparent, regardless of their name of appearance because the risk was too great.

      If an insignificant, wee, girls’ school knew…

    47. starlaw says:

      In Flanders fields the German bunkers were built using Portland cement Made in England. No prosecutions for the sale of the cement ever took place nor any enquiry ever held.
      I have not worn a poppy for years and during a well observed two minutes silence in Livingston Centre, very few people were wearing a poppy. I think the poppy commercialisation is now killing this tradition.

    48. Black Joan says:

      O/T, or maybe not:

      This is how Waitrose, that workers’ co-operative beloved of the chattering classes and devoted to decent values, responds to a polite request to withdraw advertising from the hate-filled Mail, Express and Sun:

      “Thanks for getting in touch.

      I’m sorry that you’re disappointed that we advertise in certain newspapers.

      This is an issue which has generated a lot of passion recently. However it would be wrong for us to take a view on the editorial positions of the media in which we advertise.

      For every strongly held belief on why we shouldn’t advertise, there would always be others who have equally strong views about why we should continue, or why we shouldn’t advertise with other totally different media.

      So, our position is that it’s not right for us to be a judge – we simply target our advertising towards media which our customers or potential customers are likely to see and respond to.

      I can appreciate why you feel like this and you can be assured that your comments have been taken seriously.

      Kind regards”

      What’s that quote again? The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing?

    49. Breeks says:

      If the British state wanted me to respect the dignity of fallen servicemen, they really ought not to have scheduled Armed Forces Day in Stirling to cynically clash with the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn. If that wasn’t a royally tasteless “go feck yourself Scotland”, then I don’t know what else it was.

      There was a time, until very recently in fact when I had the very utmost respect for the fallen. That respect remains of course, and I suspect it always will. But the sanctity of the poppy, which grew up rugged and resurrected in the churned up destruction of the trenches in WW1, has been sold out by the Britnat warmongers and cheapened beyond belief by tacky and tawdry commercialism.

      Then of course we have our noble Scottish Regiments…. what’s left of them. Cast off and forgotten as yesterday’s news. Have we to wear a poppy to remember them too? Or just sweep their inconvenient memory under the carpet like Westminster did?

      Left to our own devices, I don’t expect anyone in Scotland would have any problem respecting the solemn act of remembering our war dead. It’s the eye watering cynicism of a warmongering elite who would start the the same war machinery running all over again we find so bitterly distasteful.

      Harry Patch didn’t go to many Remembrance Ceremonies until his later years. His personal day of remembrance wasn’t a parade, but the day his mates in his machine gun team were all killed by artillery blast, which spared him as wounded, and got him sent home. The very uplifting thing about Harry Patch was the life after his very brief experience of soldiering. He wasn’t defined as a soldier, he was very proud of his life long work as a plumber, his family, and service in the fire brigade too. His mates weren’t so lucky. Their life stories were never written. If I thought it would do any good, I’d send a copy of Harry’s book to Effy Deans, who doesn’t seem to realise what the world loses when young men, women and children are slaughtered wholesale before their their lives have even started.

      I don’t feel obliged to wear a poppy for Britain, but I do feel obliged to stop the next war from happening, or to try to at least.

    50. Dr Jim says:

      I don’t need the Queen or a government to tell me when is the right time to remember something awful I’m pretty capable of that myself, I also don’t need them to tell me about my outpouring of grief and how much grief that should be

      It’s sadly become like Easter egg buying day or Halloween get your monkey nuts day “Poppy Day”
      Youngsters today don’t really know and some of us oldies (although know well) don’t want to know because it’s all too horrible

      What is true is the Imperialist glorification of something so horrible has almost turned it into a cartoon event because of the commercialism and deliberate missing of the real point and the finger points directly once again at the Great British medias portrayal of history in that it’s the one day a year when it’s OK to forgive the germans…………… but not the rest of the year!

      so to that end we’ll fill the telly up with war films for days on end to make sure all you public out there don’t forget

      That’s why Engerland must beat the Gerries at football at trade at being nicer at being anything as long as Great Britain doesn’t lose to the bad germans even though we played them at football on Christmas between the trenches in the war, but more importantly who won?

      It’s at times like these I wish Scotlands National Party didn’t have National in the name because as is their way the Brits turn it into something unpleasant
      Then I think, it really wouldn’t matter what the name was the Brits do this with everything in order to breed bitterness and then keep it going by making an occasion of it

      It’s right to remember and or commemorate but it all looks more like a sordid black mass now with more uniforms every year and it seems to me armed military parading is the last thing a lot of folks would want to see
      My own brother was a military man he doesn’t go to these turnouts in his uniform, he just goes stands and leaves

      And now I’m expecting the respect police to batter down my door and take me in for……….see how easy it is for a country to be manipulated

      Never the peoples fault

    51. Croompenstein says:

      It’s Volkstrauertag in Germany today, their soldiers thought they were fighting for freedom in 1914 too…

    52. Glamaig says:

      going way OT here – but its an illustration of how easily narratives can be changed by a change of emphasis.

      I visited Buchenwald concentration camp twice. First time was in the early 80’s, communist era. There were some displays detailing how well-known German companies, still big in West Germany, had profited from the ‘industry’. There was also an emphasis on how socialists and communists were incarcerated as well as Jews.

      Second visit in around 1990, just after the Communist regime ended – all those displays had vanished, to be replaced by new ones detailing how the Soviets had continued using Buchenwald after 1945 as a camp for dissidents.

      Some of the companies are listed here

    53. izzie says:

      There was also recorded acts of bravery and self sacrifice in the camps surely that shows the best of humanity? i wear a poppy for the conscripts those men who were not professional soldiers who did not volunteer but who in 1916 were forced to go to war

    54. Ann says:

      I too used to buy and wear a poppy every year out of remembrance of my great grandfather who died in September 1916, howeverlast year I purchased a white peace poppy and a purple poppy for the millions of innocent animals that have died during conflict.

      The reason for this is that I feel that the act of remembrance had slowly lost its true meaning after The Falklands conflict and was hijacked by Westminster and has now been politized and commercialised.

      I also feel that the burden of care for veterans in the 21st century should be made by the governments of the time who sent these young men snd women into unnecessary warand not ordinary citizens of the country.

      However as I once posted on Facebook. “I have no problems with a person whether they wear a poppy or not as to like or not like a poppy. To wear or not to wear a poppy is a personal choice and each person does not have to be criticized for the decisions they make”

    55. One_Scot says:

      Just learnt of the Alien Act 1705.

      ‘The Alien Act provided that Scottish nationals in England were to be treated as aliens (foreign nationals), and estates held by Scots would be treated as alien property,[1] making inheritance much less certain. It also included an embargo on the import of Scottish products into England and English colonies – about half of Scotland’s trade, covering goods such as linen, cattle and coal.[2]

      The Act contained a provision that it would be suspended if the Scots entered into negotiations regarding a proposed union of the parliaments of Scotland and England. Combined with English financial offers to refund Scottish losses on the Darien scheme, the Act achieved its aim, leading to the Acts of Union 1707 uniting the two countries as the Kingdom of Great Britain’

      Wow, just wow.

    56. ScottishPsyche says:

      Effie Deans, whoever that person is, has truly gone beyond decency to say that it does not matter what age they died. These were not professional soldiers who knew to some extent what was ahead of them. These were indeed the ‘flower of youth’, a generation who could have done not just ordinary things but maybe great things and had a life and been part of others’ lives.

      My grandfather signed up in WW1, faking his age, and was immediately sent to France where he and most of his battalion were captured and interred in a PoW camp for 4 years. His attitude to Earl Haig cannot be repeated. He learned much about tolerance and comradeship in the PoW camp from Russian soldiers whose kindness he never forgot.Like many, he watched in horror as WW2 developed before his eyes. He felt great regret and sadness at how the East and West polarised after 1945.

      I feel we are watching something similar unfolding. While Slab and the Tories, Kevin McKenna and other apologists yell insults at the SNP and say all’s fair in the name of the Union and business is business, we have to be vigilant because everything has changed and it feels like there are very dark days ahead.

    57. Bob Mack says:

      @Scottish Psyche,

      Apparently Effie Deans is a lecturer in Aberdeen University. Go figure.

    58. jomry says:

      On Friday 11th, most news headlines included a clip of Prince Harry, ‘..leading the nation in remembrance on Armistice Day as he read the poem, The Soldier, by Rupert Brooke…”

      Ignoring the sycophancy of the commentary about his “own front line experience in Afghanistan”, the choice of the poem was an extraordinary one on several fronts.

      Rupert Brooke was from a privileged background and a Cambridge graduate. He joined the RN Volunteers reserve in 1915 and was posted to Antwerp. He saw no military action, but in 1915, he was on a ship bound for the Dardanelles when he contracted blood poisoning from an insect bite, died and was buried on a Greek island in the Aegean.

      Brooke wrote “The Soldier” in late 1914 as part of a group of sonnets expressing the hopeful idealism and enthusiasm with which Britain entered the war. “The Soldier” is an unashamedly patriotic poem of its time.

      However, the trench warfare of 1916 and 1917 led to unseemly deaths on such a staggering scale that even by the end of the war, such patriotic feeling – and Brooke’s poetry- was viewed as foolish and naive, sentimental and unrealistic. and gave way to war poets such as Graves, Owen and Sassoon.

      It strikes me that remembering the war dead is a fairly hollow exercise unless it is accompanied by a resolve not to let these things happen again and graphic and biting poems like Owen’s “Dulce et decorum est” are far better suited to such a task but would obviously not fit the established Armistice day orthodoxy.

      “The Soldier” is essentially an expression of English patriotism. Just read the words. And while it is undoubtedly a well crafted poem of its time, it is an extremely insensitive choice in the current day for an occasion and personnel tasked with representing all parts of the British Isles and reflecting on the tragic deaths of soldiers and civilians in Scotland, Ireland and Wales- as well as England – particularly given the disproportionately high toll of Scottish deaths in two world wars.

      And lest this be taken as anti-English bias, I speak as an English person.
      Those of us who have made Scotland our home will not be surprised at the insensitivity. However, any who continually conflate “Britain” and “England” as interchangeable terms will simply not be aware that there is even an issue.

    59. Brian Powell says:


      The Turkish troops had no idea why the Brit/Aust/Nz era were in Gallipoli, they thought it must be some new Crusade, as in the 11th, 12th 13th centuries.

    60. Glamaig says:

      Bob Mack says:
      13 November, 2016 at 7:52 pm
      @Scottish Psyche,

      Apparently Effie Deans is a lecturer in Aberdeen University. Go figure.

      For an academic, she doesnt half write a load of rambling, incoherent and nonensical pish. I dont think Ive ever managed to reach the end of one of her articles.

    61. Capella says:

      I feel the British state has perverted the natural feelings of sadness we have for people killed in endless wars for political gain. So I never wear a poppy.
      But if others want to do so, or contribute to the Haig Fund, then that is their right and I don’t criticise.

      Fascism is evil and has to be resisted. Let’s hope it isn’t too late.

    62. jomry says:

      Croompenstein says:
      13 November, 2016 at 7:21 pm
      “It’s Volkstrauertag in Germany today, their soldiers thought they were fighting for freedom on 1914,,”

      You may find the following poem relevant

    63. carjamtic says:

      There is an 18 min. short film on you tube or vimeo ,takes the data on the harrowing number of people killed and displays through digitised graphics.

      A very sad reminder 🙁

      The Fallen of WW 11

      (I am unable to link,due to text only,poor wifi signal)

    64. Glamaig says:

      jomry says:
      13 November, 2016 at 7:53 pm
      On Friday 11th, most news headlines included a clip of Prince Harry, ‘..leading the nation in remembrance on Armistice Day as he read the poem, The Soldier, by Rupert Brooke…”

      why dont they read something like this, Dulce et Decorum est, by Wilfred Owen??

    65. galamcennalath says:

      The whole remembrance poppy thing has moved away from actually remembering, solemnly and soberly, the horror and obscenity of war into some sort of nationalist glory fest.

      Keep seeing references to Post Truth Politics.

      After reading that I feel like BetterTogether and Brexit were solely in the realms of post truth politics! Pushing emotional buttons and completely ignoring the facts!

      It’s like we want, push, discuss … facts. They Yoons and BritNats want to avoid that!

      Never mind facts, history, informatation … how do you feel about good old Blighty … proud, loyal, obedient, unquestioning ?

    66. Robert Peffers says:

      I went into a public ‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
      The publican ‘e up an’ sez, ” We serve no red-coats here.”
      The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
      I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
      O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ ” Tommy, go away ” ;
      But it’s ” Thank you, Mister Atkins,” when the band begins to play
      The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
      O it’s ” Thank you, Mister Atkins,” when the band begins to play.

      I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
      They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
      They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
      But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
      For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ ” Tommy, wait outside “;
      But it’s ” Special train for Atkins ” when the trooper’s on the tide
      The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
      O it’s ” Special train for Atkins ” when the trooper’s on the tide.

      Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
      Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap.
      An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
      Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
      Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul? ”
      But it’s ” Thin red line of ‘eroes ” when the drums begin to roll
      The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
      O it’s ” Thin red line of ‘eroes, ” when the drums begin to roll.

      We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
      But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
      An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
      Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
      While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be’ind,”
      But it’s ” Please to walk in front, sir,” when there’s trouble in the wind
      There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
      O it’s ” Please to walk in front, sir,” when there’s trouble in the wind.

      You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
      We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
      Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
      The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
      For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! ”
      But it’s ” Saviour of ‘is country ” when the guns begin to shoot;
      An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
      An ‘Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool – you bet that Tommy sees!

      By Rudyard Kippling.

      No further comment required.

    67. Effijy says:

      I can never understand why charities have beg for
      Money to look after the few soldiers who survived
      and who don’t have families or funds to support them.

      I think risking your life day after day for years, for a
      Politician’s inadequcy makes a government duty
      Bound to support a soldier for life.

      Id also like to point out that 25% of the First World
      War’s British fatalities were Scottish!

      Isn’t that strange with us having less than 10% of the population?

      I spoke to an old soldier who was there.
      He was no more than 5ft talk, like many under-
      Nourished Scottish Soldiers.
      He proposed that the English officers thought
      It justified to send them in first, and hopefully
      Use up the German bullets as they were smaller
      Targets to hit.

      The English tactics go all the way back to the battle
      Of Waterloo, were the Scottish General was
      Instructed to send his Bastards in first.

      If I were conscripted, I’d be more likely to aim
      At a Tory Officer than a Russian.

    68. ScottishPsyche says:

      @Bob Mack

      I heard another rumour that they were admin Staff at NesCol (the Aberdeen college group). Whatever they are, they do themselves and their employer no favours.

      Imagine your child was being taught by someone with views like Deans, Tomkins and Stephenson? I read an article today, which I cannot find, laying a lot of the blame for the shift to RW politics on the credence given to academics who try to put their daft theories into practice.

    69. dakk says:

      Whatever the official purpose claimed for the Remembrance poppy, there is no doubt the warmongering British State and their BritNat supporters now use it as an annual rallying call to nurture and stir their imperial and martial instincts.Not to mention their xenophobia.

      Lest they forget those quintessential British values indeed.

      I won’t be offering my appeasement to them in these pursuits by wearing this corrupted symbol.

      Shame for all the victims of their endless wars though.

    70. Bob Mack says:


      Effie Deans is apparently a man. Unionists seem to occupy positions of education like our man Scott Arthur. Highly educated bigots. Never averse to twisting facts to justify that bigotry.

      A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Effie should look at the recently released letters from WW1 soldiers.

      The truth is far removed from what goes on in Effies tortured mind.

    71. Chess man. says:

      The American historian Dan Carlin’s narration of the battle of Verdun sums up the absolute horror and futility of WW1.

    72. ScottishPsyche says:

      There was never a more appropriate description than ‘educated beyond their intelligence’ for Yoons with academic titles (and blogs).

    73. Vambomarbeleye says:

      I wear mine in memory of the dead of both sides. Civilian as well as military. Also as symbol of the futility of war.
      I thought a good move when the war widows were allowed to parade. A reminder from the queen down of the end result of war.
      Biggest mistake was letting the C of E in on the act.

    74. Liz g says:

      Cearc @ 6.53
      Oh they knew’s us … The people…who didn’t…
      The one’s with the power to do something had to know.
      That’s where I was coming from when I said earlier,we all have to ask ourselves what we would do if it started to happen again.
      It’s not as if we could say that killing factories were the stuff of fantasy!!
      That’s what the poppy’s were supposed to be for,so we remember all that war can do.
      The lady in the film,rembers helping her friend to report to the officials.
      She has the excuse of not being able to imagine.
      We don’t.
      And please forgive the obvious..we must never forget.
      So I am not just disgusted with they way remembrance’s day has turned out,I am suspicious of it.

    75. ScottishPsyche says:


      One of my offspring was told by his tutor, ‘if the worst comes to the worst, there are always jobs at the Scottish Parliament’. The idea being it does not matter what your politics are, say anything to get a job. The principles can be invented later.

      Kezia Dugdale immediately came to mind.

    76. Cactus says:

      Hey Liz g @ 5:12 pm ~

      I liked that idea above of the wearing of a blank safety pin, very fitting.

      Understandably, as many more Scottish people now find the wearing / displaying of a poppy on themselves negative by association, maybe it’s time for a positive 21st century update?

      We’re Scottish, respectfully, does it have to be a poppy.. could we not represent and mark the occasion by wearing something else instead?

      Why not proudly wear a broach or small cutting of a thistle on your lapel? The thistle represents Scotland, is beautiful and comes with no baggage.

      Wear whatever you want to (or not,) forget about the finger-pointers.. it’s what it matters and means to YOU.

      We must find a way to move forward positively from this, or the next hundred anniversaries from now until the year 2116 are gonna be much the same feeling and more awkward than they need to be. 🙂


    77. KOF says:

      A Soldier’s Hope

      A tot of native cheer, a blackened briar, 
      and all my life to feel their flavour; 
      a bed by night, a job by day, 
      that rest from toil may keep its savour; 
      just now and then.
      A fire, a friend, a jolly story.

      A decent wife, a cosy home, 
      a brush that makes a healthy lather; 
      a few good friends, some cash saved up, 
      mayhap a kid who loves his father; 
      and at the end
      a quiet going out to God.

      W R Torvaney, 2nd Lt, 7th Royal Highlanders (Black Watch), France 1916.

    78. Glamaig says:

      OT soz

      interesting article about the psychology of political campaigns

      ‘Repeatedly priming voters’ minds with concepts, whether supportive of or detrimental to candidates’ appeal, builds their chronic accessibility – the ease with which these ideas shape voters’ opinions.’

      I think we are all familiar with this technique thanks to Better Together and the BBC…

    79. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 13 November, 2016 at 7:15 pm:

      It’s at times like these I wish Scotlands National Party didn’t have National in the name because as is their way the Brits turn it into something unpleasant.

      On that point, Dr Jim, I can only suggest you pick up your dictionary and check out the difference in meaning between the two terms, “National”, and, “Nationalist”, and remind you the, “N”, in SNP stands for National e.g. of or belonging to the Nation. Furthermore there are two very different types of Nationalism and only one of them is destructive.

      Might I also point out that in the United States of America school children must make a Pledge of Allegiance every day in school. They must stand up, hand over your heart, and recite the pledge every morning.

      And our English partners in the United Kingdom are taught that the United Kingdom is not only a country but that it is their country.

    80. Black Joan says:

      Siegfried Sassoon’s 1917 protest about the war saw him, (a gallant officer, who could not be Court Martialled because of the attention that would receive), diagnosed with “shell shock” and sent for psychiatric treatment at Craiglockhart because, you know, he was obviously not thinking straight:

      “I am making this statement as an act of wilful defiance of military authority, because I believe that the War is being deliberately prolonged by those who have the power to end it.

      I am a soldier, convinced that I am acting on behalf of soldiers. I believe that this War, upon which I entered as a war of defence and liberation, has now become a war of aggression and conquest.

      I believe that the purposes for which I and my fellow soldiers entered upon this War should have been so clearly stated as to have made it impossible to change them, and that, had this been done, the objects which actuated us would now be attainable by negotiation. I have seen and endured the sufferings of the troops, and I can no longer be a party to prolong these sufferings for ends which I believe to be evil and unjust.

      I am not protesting against the conduct of the War, but against the political errors and insincerities for which the fighting men are being sacrificed.

      On behalf of those who are suffering now, I make this protest against the deception which is being practised on them; also I believe that I may help to destroy the callous complacency with which the majority of those at home regard the continuance of agonies which they do not share, and which they have not sufficient imagination to realise.”

    81. Ronnie says:

      I found it interesting that on Friday I was walking through Glasgow city centre and, apart from in George Square and a small group outside the GoMA in Queen Street, I saw almost no one pause at 11:00. Including me, I might add.

    82. Artyhetty says:

      Re; Robert Peffers@9.07

      And in fact the unionists in WM still insist on calling the SNP ‘The Scottish nationalist party’. It is not a mistake, it is quite deliberate.

      I had a friend say she wished the SNP would call themselves something else, ditch the ‘national’ bit. It is a word which can be doctored to suit the masters, the britnat agenda, and clearly is every day regards Scotland.

    83. Lochside says:

      Prince Harry’s insensitive reading of Rupert Brooke’s poem ‘The Soldier’ with its ‘ a corner of a foreign land that is forever England’ epitomises the absolute disdainful and unbelievable ignorance shown towards our Scottish dead, never mind the Welsh and Irish, North and South, that were slaughtered for King and Country.

      But then again the English who lost a ratio half of ours in War dead, have taken full ownership of all conflicts, particularly the two world wars. We are written out: Loos in 1915, the first ‘big push’ a majority of Scottish divisions shot to bits; ww1 dead of 150,000, over 20% of all Scottish ranks. I heard Ancestry UK have upped previous estimates of 1/10 to 115,000. This is still a lie. Glasgow lost 35,000 men, Aberdeen lost over 5200. Scotland’s population was 4.7 million in 1914, go figure.

      In 1940, Dunkirk, the myth of an army saved from the jaws of defeat. Reality, the whole Highland division sacrificed as a rearguard at St.Valery, still fighting on 10 days after the rest of the BEF were being feted as heroes…and continue to be so.

      I bought poppies for years, despite my Grandfathers hatred of Haig and his callous butchery of their comrades. The poppy symbolised to me the futility and waste of lives by the British Empire. My Uncle’s death in the Second World War also was a factor.

      But the last few years hijacking by the Brit pack and the military have sickened me to the point that I stopped buying them. I haven’t even put money in this year because of the nauseating hypocrisy of the UK that refuses to pay for the military incapacitated in their current crop of imperial adventures. The final straw is these large poppies like gardenias. They tell me the wearers are narcissistic arseholes with no real feelings for the fallen. Needless to say the only ones wearing them are the usual suspects.

    84. Robert Peffers says:

      @jomry says: 13 November, 2016 at 7:53 pm:

      “On Friday 11th, most news headlines included a clip of Prince Harry, ‘..leading the nation in remembrance on Armistice Day as he read the poem, The Soldier, by Rupert Brooke…”

      Indeed, Jomry, there is no doubt that, consciously or not, the choice of poem was, if nothing else, very insensitive and a slight on not only the war dead of Scotland, Wales and Ireland but also Jersey, Guernsey, Man and the entire British Commonwealth.

      Not to mention the Free French, Free Poles and many others. I post the poem here for those Wingers who may not be aware of the text it contains :-

      The Soldier. By Rupert Brooke

      IF I should die, think only this of me:
      That there’s some corner of a foreign field
      That is forever England. There shall be
      In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
      A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
      Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
      A body of England’s, breathing English air,
      Washed by the rivers, blest by the suns of home.
      And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
      A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
      Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
      Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
      And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
      In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.

    85. Lenny Hartley says:

      I’ve read quite a bit on WW1 and I have never read or heard or seen any explanation which adequately explains how it started. The stuff about Franz Ferdinand does not sensibly explain how two countries led by full cousins went to War with one another.

      One of my mates thinks it’s because the Scottish Home Rule Bill was due to have its third reading in Westminster. I don’t concur, however , is there anybody out there able to give me an explanation which adds up?

      Regarding the Poppy as an ex serviceman I always wore a poppy until about a decade or so ago I realised it was being hijacked for political reasons.

    86. Big Jock says:

      The problem I have is when they often say:” All the brave men and women who gave their lives for our nation in all the conflicts”.

      Every war since world war 2 has had absolutely nothing to do with protecting the nation. It is about money, oil, politics and corruption. Carpet bombing Syria and killing thousands of families and children. Is the brutal unforgiving reality of illegal wars.

      I will never support the British Military.

    87. Liz g says:

      Cactus @ 8.50
      I did and do like the Safety Pin thing.
      No one who knows what it means would worry about getting into a lift ect…
      No one in a train carriage with lots of visable Safety Pins will feel comfortable mouthing off… hopefully!
      That for me is what was fought for.

      Even if it was all elite’s competing for positions and none of it was really true and poor people were killing other poor people for no advancement…in some sense it doesn’t matter because they genuinely thought they and theirs were threatened and they stepped up.
      I can’t wear a poppy again but….

      I will..if I am around…be taking some White Rose’s to Mixed Clans at Culloden on Independence day.
      For two reasons.

      All the people killed in war.
      From that day to this.

      Also Scotland if I have anything to do with it…will give not one more drop of blood for her freedom,but she shall have it nevertheless.
      I know it sounds a bit saft but I do remember and mourn for them all.
      And if the Polish guy from the other night is reading…your countrymen too.

    88. Big Jock says:

      At lunchtime I passed a Scottish trucker with a giant plastic poppy on the front grill. Inside the cab was an led Union Jack and behind it a Rangers flag. Now tell me the Poppy is not political!

    89. Fred says:

      Some good posts guys. As far as I’m aware there were no British officers shot at dawn & the BEF were much more trigger-happy with deserters than the Germans with their defaulters.

    90. Paukie Brae says:

      France. Scribed in pencil in a WW1 tunnel.

      “If in this place you are detained. Don’t look around you all in vain, but cast your net and you shall find, that every cloud is silver lined. Still.”

      Down in that place, waiting, listening, but still with hope. I’d wear a poppy for him.

    91. ahundredthidiot says:

      I don’t judge people who wear poppies and I don’t expect them to judge me.

      Not so hard is it.

    92. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers

      If you read what I said Robert you’ll see I did not make distinctions one to the other I talked about others doing that
      I’m rather proud of my party whatever it’s name, and I fully understand the difference between the two comparisons you make, which I did not, I once again pointed to those who do

    93. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 9.35
      Glad you said something Robert.
      I thought it was a bit of a slap in the face but also wondered if I was being too sensitive!

      I mean. WTF are the quotes from the Royal’s not ment to be carefully looked at.
      If they are ,and, I think that they are, what were they trying to say.
      Hopefully it’s that Scotland’s gone.
      what do you think of it???

    94. John says:

      Lets see, I think I remember this after 45 years or so.

      Good morning, good morning the general said
      as he passed us last week on the way to the line,
      now the soldiers he smiled at are most of them dead
      and we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.

      He’s a cheery old card grunted Harry to Jack,
      but he did for them both with his plan of attack.

      Apologies to Seigfried Sassoon

    95. Onwards says:

      ?Big Jock says:
      13 November, 2016 at 9:43 pm

      “At lunchtime I passed a Scottish trucker with a giant plastic poppy on the front grill. Inside the cab was an led Union Jack and behind it a Rangers flag”

      This is my problem. It has become too politicised and often seems to represent support for the UK state rather than remembering war dead.

      Why do their need to be any flags associated with poppies and remembrance?

    96. galamcennalath says:

      I’ve posted some details of this on WoS before but it seems appropriate to do so again now.

      On the early morning 23rd April 1916 my Great Uncle John was at the small oasis of Dueidar just east of the Suez Canal at the edge of the Sinai Desert. It was held by 156 men; 120 from the 1/5th Battalion (Ayr) of the Royal Scots Fusiliers.

      He had already fought at and survived Gallipoli. In January 1916 they had been evacuated to Egypt and on 2 March they took over section of the Suez Canal defences.

      John was a ploughman from Muirkirk and that cold misty morning, he and his mates were a long way from the farmlands of Ayrshire. They had adopted a stray dog which began barking at something out beyond the barbed wire. The dog ran out into the mist and attacked someone. The alert was sounded and the guys took their positions. The Turks attacked in force.

      They were saved by two things, the dog which died alerting them and the mist which prevented the Turks using the light artillery pieces they had brought.

      The Scots held off the assault until relieved by Australian Light Horse at 13:30, who drove off the Turks. This action was part of the wider Battle of Katia. The Scots sustained 55 casualties and John Murphy from Muirkirk died of wounds received in battle next day on 24th April.

      Not anonymous people. Real people. Our families. John’s grave…

    97. Stu Mac says:


      That would be the supporters whose team (a while back) turned Remembrance Day into a circus-like farce with abseiling soldiers and various “entertainments” involving Rangers supporting infantry. Real respect there…not.

    98. Glamaig says:

      The clip of the deportations from the Channel Islands reminds me of this thought provoking and disturbing book:

      ‘Modernity and the Holocaust’ by Zygmunt Bauman

      Bauman’s thesis is that in a modern society with bureaucracy, technology and power structures, it is all too easy for a holocaust to happen – millions of small, rational acts by ordinary individuals contribute. Each act is so far removed from its ultimate consequences that it seems in itself harmless.

      There is nothing structural in modern society to prevent a holocaust – on the contrary, the very nature of that society, where extreme division of labour distances an act from its consequences, makes the holocaust possible.


      ‘The lesson of the Holocaust is the facility with which most people, put into a situation that does not contain a good choice, or renders such a good choice very costly, argue themselves away from the issue of moral duty… adopting instead the precepts of rational interest and self-preservation.’

      ‘Evil needs neither enthusiastic followers nor an applauding audience – the instinct of self-preservation will do, encouraged by the comforting thought that it is not my turn yet, thank God: by lying low, I can still escape.’

      The good news is that ‘it does not matter how many people chose moral duty over the rationality of self-preservation – what does matter is that some did. Evil is not all-powerful. It can be resisted. The testimony of the few who did resist shatters the authority of the logic of self-preservation. It shows it for what it is in the end – a choice. One wonders how many people must defy that logic for evil to be incapacitated. Is there a magic threshold of defiance beyond which the technology of evil grinds to a halt?’

    99. Marcia says:

      I am in France at the moment for the final Somme Battlefield Commemorations, today at Beaumont Hamel was a truly Scottish event and quite moving. I refuse to wear a poppy as all you need to do is look up the expenses the Trustees of the British Legion vote themselves each year. People who drop a coin into the collection tin are paying for their junkets.

    100. Grouse Beater says:

      Of Peffers and Poppies

      First: my admiration to Robert Peffers. His energy and resolve is astonishing, his knowledge always a good read. I don’t congratulate him anything like enough.

      Second, the last time I bought a poppy, almost two decades ago as a callow yoof, it was to help pay for facilities to look after war wounded.

      There was an unspoken presumption that in time no one need sell poppies, British war maimed and injured being a thing of the past.

      It appears we were mistaken. War is to be an endless industry.

    101. Liz g says:

      Galamcennalath @ 10.08
      Jeezz 25 …my son will be 25 next birthday.
      I don’t know how those mum’s ever lived with it.
      To keep the toffs where they were …how did it ever be allowed to happen??

    102. Andrew Mclean says:

      WW1, was my thing for a while while I was young, it would take a very long time to explain the political circumstances, but essentially you had superpowers, that fought their arms and technology superior to the others, that had territory world wide carved up, so when a small opening appeared, a weakness perhaps the immediate rush to fill the gaps lit the fuse, neither side would back down.

      An easy way to explain it is as having put so much effort into war, it was easier to fight than to find a solution.

      We have wars because we are good at war, and we are good at war because we have wars! It’s a profession don’t you know, a military industrial complex.

      Remember Einstein, “I don’t know how the Third World War will be fought, but the fourth will be with sticks and stones”.

    103. Big Jock says:

      It won’t be that long until the last world war 2 vets are no longer with us. The Poppy peddlers then cant pretend the money is anything to do with the war dead. It is purely about supporting the current British Military and conflicts like Northern Eire, Iraq and Syria.

      England is obsessed with the military. They use it as an excuse to drag the Queen out and waive the Butchers Apron.

      I think there is nothing more sickening than watching the coffin of a 20 year Scottish shoulder. Being draped in the Butchers death Apron before being buried.

    104. galamcennalath says:

      Liz g says:

      Jeezz 25 …my son will be 25 next birthday.
      I don’t know how those mum’s ever lived with it.

      His mother, my great grand mother who I never knew of course, was apparently never the same again. The rest of the family were miners and life would have been hard. But the news of John’s death far away was too much for the poor woman.

      I suspect they never actually discovered as much detail about his death as I have. They would never see a photo of the grave. With the Australian Light Horse was a war correspondent. So online there are lots of written details and photographs taken on that afternoon.

    105. sassenach says:


      Just heard BBC TV news announce a week of programmes looking at how unequal/equal Scotland actually is.

      Wages, education, health and so on!!

      Think we can guess it will be a hard week!

    106. Glamaig says:

      Liz g says:
      13 November, 2016 at 10:21 pm
      Galamcennalath @ 10.08
      Jeezz 25 …my son will be 25 next birthday.
      I don’t know how those mum’s ever lived with it.
      To keep the toffs where they were …how did it ever be allowed to happen??

      Well yes. My son is 20. My grandfather was 20 when he was in the trenches at Gallipoli. Makes you look at war a bit differently.

    107. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 13 November, 2016 at 9:53 pm:

      “I mean. WTF are the quotes from the Royal’s not ment to be carefully looked at.”

      I have no idea of how the royals and English upper classes think of such things, Liz g.

      However, as a young school kid during WWII I spent some time living in an cottage on an orchard, (which as agriculture land), was actually within Bordon army Camp in Hampshire. There I was surrounded by the Canadian Army soldiers who were wiped out in the Dieppe Raid. In fact as most of them were from Scots Canadian Battalions I was something of a mascot, (not a great one as it turned out).

      I attended the local primary school and was beaten up every day by older English kids for no other reason than my very broad Scots accent. Now the thing was that the staff, including the head, caned me for being a troublemaker and there was a definite anti-anything not English thing going on. Even if we were all supposed to be fighting Hitler.

      Now I’ve never blamed the kids or the staff for their bad behaviour for, even at that early age, I was somehow aware they were being brainwashed.

      In the main the people of England are good people who have been brainwashed all their lives in much the same manner as we Scots have.

      From the cradle onwards we are subject to these ideas and they are ingrained in us. Only when we are made consciously aware of what is going on will we make conscious efforts to think things through for ourselves.

      For example – When did you first realise that the TV show Dad’s Army was a propaganda exercise?

      “Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler if you think old England’s Done”.

      That’s pure propaganda and the people on England never give it a thought for in their mind is the firmly fixed idea that England, Britain, Great Britain and the United Kingdom are all just the same thing and it is all just England.

      As for the Royals and the people, who are our leaders, I think these do probably know the truth and encourage the propaganda.

    108. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Cactus & other friends –

      I still believe a wee ivy leaf could represent so much for us.

      ‘I Voted Yes’ encompasses many decent causes and beliefs, including appropriate remembrance as well as concern for generations to come.

    109. Big Jock says:

      My grandad died when my dad was 9. He contracted Malaria in Burma in World War 2. He came home when my dad was 5 and lasted 4 years. Towards the end my dad wasn’t allowed to see his twisted body.

      He went from being a West of Scotland lightweight boxing amateur champion. To a skeleton in a matter of years. My dad has never worn a poppy. He says the Poppy is a representation of the loss of his father he never really knew.

      The reason he says is because he was left to rot when he came home. He was poorly treated in the war and he thinks that didn’t help his recovery.

      My Grandads dad was Irish and probably fought the British in his homeland, before being forced out of his land.

      My dad grew up in Maryhill and supports the Jags as did his father and now me. My dad believed supporting Celtic was too predictable for an Irish descended Catholic. My dad joined the SNP when he was 18. He signed me up when I was 18. When all his friends called Snp the proddie party. My dad refused to change. He just knew he was Scottish and that republicanism sat comfortably with our Irish ansestory.

      No one ever called my dad British and got away with it. The same for me.

      So as for poppies and the Brit peddlers….. Not for this rebel soul!

    110. Big Jock says:

      The reason the English don’t correct others when they say England instead of Britain. Is because they don’t need to. Their identity is not being ignored or taken away. It’s only our identity.

    111. KOF says:

      @ Marcia 22:12

      Good to hear the commemorations at Beaumont-Hamel went well today. I’d hoped to be there myself, but was unable to make it this year. Some times what we have to do takes precedence over what we want to do.

      Here’s a poem for you, which you may or may not be familiar with, regarding a soldier who died at Beaumont-Hamel a hundred years ago today.

      A poem by William Richard Torvaney, 2Lt, 1st Highland Field Company (ex 1/7th Royal Highlanders) written to commemorate the death of Private Hubert Julius De Reuter 6928, 15 Platoon, D Company 1/7th Royal Highlanders (Black Watch), 153 Brigade, 51st Highland Division. Killed in action during the assault on Y-Ravine, Beaumont-Hamel on 13th November 1916.

      Along with being a soldier, Hubert was also the 3rd Baron De Reuter, grandson of the founder of Reuters.

      OUR TOFF

      We ‘ad a toff in our platoon
      a Baron’s son was he, 
      a toff wot did his share of work
      an’ drank his Army tea
      an’ spent near all his handy cash
      on chaps like you and me

      He might have been a red-tab swell
      that’s wot he might have been, 
      but then we chaps that’s coarser-like
      would never quite ha’ seen
      the splendid man he was right through
      a soldier – straight and keen

      He’s gone – like many another chap
      an’ we wot’s out here still
      when grey dawn breaks and men ‘stand to’
      when armies fight and kill.
      We misses ‘Arry, our star toff
      who lies near Mailly hill

      I ain’t religious, but I’d like
      to thank the God who gave
      this world our Harry, Baron’s son
      who found a soldier’s grave

    112. Chic McGregor says:

      I donate annually to Erskine but do not wear a poppy.

      IMO it has become politicised by the increasingly jingoistic/fascist British State for some years.

    113. People Carrier says:


      My sympathies. Your great uncle’s name will be on the Victory Park memorial in Muirkirk. Still Murphys in the village.

      Muirkirk was once an important industrial centre in lowland Scotland and just before the First World War had a population of approximately 5000. That, and the war’s huge death toll, explains why so many names are present on the memorial relative to its population size (as measured from the early 70s onwards).

      Oh, and for what it’s worth, when in the BB, my friends and me marched to the Kirk and cemetery every year for 12 years. There was always a saltire and a union flag. It was always hugely respectful and dignified, just as you would expect in a small community. It is something I am proud to have done. It left me with an abiding interest in the First World War, from which grew my abhorrence of war in general and my complete mistrust of the political and class elite. Some people might think of the BB as being part of Yoondom, but that is not an impression with which I am familiar; some of us meet up regularly and we all vote SNP.

      I should mention – more recently, in an attempt to ‘normalise’ their bigotry, the orange lodge attends these commemorations wearing their sashes. It’s easy to interpret this approach and time they were told where to go.

    114. Chic McGregor says:


      Harping back to Yoon complaints about Nicola’s comments re Trump I would like to remind you of this fairly recent quote by our current Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson:

      “The only reason I wouldn’t visit some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”

      Little wonder we have Farage stepping in as first point of contact.

      Beams, motes and all that.

    115. galamcennalath says:

      People Carrier says:

      Your great uncle’s name will be on the Victory Park memorial in Muirkirk

      It is 🙂

    116. Big Jock says:

      Chic. Nicola is aligning herself with the rest of Europe. While distancing herself from Trump and Brexit England.

      She is looking to a future where Scotland is in the Eu and England is begging the Us,for trade deals. Right versus left. England is on the way to total isolation.

    117. louis.b.argyll says:

      Re the word, nationalist.

      The reason that the English political elites use the word ‘country’ so much, is because as a ‘nation’ they are an embarrassment even to themselves.

      They avoid blatant ‘Englishness’ because they don’t know what it is, seeing it ridiculed or despised at ‘home’ and abroad,

      Lumping themselves in with their underling celtic cousins, unaware that our resilience matches their inadequacy.

      Trusting in the sum of your parts, your nation and it’s potential.. is not the same as keeping out foreigners so you all get more overtime.

    118. Capella says:

      @ Lenny Hartley – the best, and funniest, explanation of WW1, causes of, is Robert Newman’s “History of Oil”. A stand-up comedy routine which is also a great history lesson.
      Spoiler- it’s about oil.
      45 mins on yputube.

    119. Andrew Mclean says:

      Nearly the end of Remembrance Sunday.

      The common form

      “If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied.


      Exultation and triumph was what Kipling had in mind as he actively encouraged his young son to go to war. Kipling’s son John died in the First World War, at the Battle of Loos in September 1915, at age 18. John had initially wanted to join the Royal Navy, but having had his application turned down after a failed medical examination due to poor eyesight, he opted to apply for military service as an officer. But again, his eyesight was an issue during the medical examination. In fact, he tried twice to enlist, but was rejected. His father had been lifelong friends with Lord Roberts, commander-in-chief of the British Army, and colonel of the Irish Guards, and at Rudyard’s request, John was accepted into the Irish Guards.[58] He was sent to Loos two days into the battle in a reinforcement contingent. He was last seen stumbling through the mud blindly, screaming in agony after an exploding shell ripped his face apart.

    120. Tinto Chiel says:

      Well said, Lochside. You sum up my thoughts pretty well. I’ve been fortunate enough in recent years to visit St Valery-en-Caux, Albert, Bayeux and Beaumont Hamel. It leaves you empty and pretty disgusted at the same time. How many of the WWI troops even had the vote? Yet they died for “freedom/democracy”.

      And Churchill abandoned the 51st Highland Division to their fate after Dunkirk without a qualm. They fought with De Gaulle until the end.

      And, as usual, we seem to have borne the brunt.

      It’s the Union Dividend.

    121. Liz g says:

      While thinking that my son is reaching the age of your uncle.
      I thought it might comfort you to know that he and my other kids are and have been taught about their sacrifice.
      Not only the kid’s (and they were mostly kid’s) on the field but in an upfront and personal way.

      Wee wummin across the road from us long story short.
      The wee wummin all the kids in the street looked out for.
      They would have killed anyone that did her harm.
      We all watched….we were a good Street.
      What we ultimately learned was that she was all alone because her first husband died in WW1 & her 2nd in WW2 after that she just gave up.
      She could not stand to lose another man that she loved.
      She would prefer not to ever love again.
      We learned this from a lovely elderly couple,again who we all looked out for.
      My son escorted me to that gentleman’s funeral a few years back.
      He wanted to go because that was the man who always watched what was going on in the street and who’s word could be trusted,and therefore had saved my son’s arse a fair few times.
      That’s (his funeral) where we learned he had parachuted into Arnhem (hope spell check got it right) also that he had never really spoken about it.
      Other than to say he had never been more frightened in his life.
      My son,his friends,the community were not only impressed but all the kid’s wanted to know about their neighbours stories.
      I went all… Robert Peffers…. on them.
      No Hollywood the real version.
      So I guess what I am trying to say to you is people like my neighbours and your uncle are not forgotten.
      And is not because London Elite’s like to show off every year X.

    122. Returnofthemac says:

      The great general Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmany Melchett(Blackadder Goes Forth) brush and dustpan in hand sweeps a significant number of toy soldiers up and bins them.How many lost he enquires of captain Darling, I think around 10,000 was the figure quoted and our advance he asks? 6ins the reply. Thank you Ben Elton

    123. ben madigan says:

      I agree with so many of the posters above about the annual Poppy kermesse . I find it sickening even though i have close relatives who served in the BA and RAF from the boer war up to the falklands.

      just to raise a smile – here’s some fashion advice for Unionist ladies on Poppy wearing. Enjoy

    124. Chic McGregor says:

      IMO the greatest ever anti-war lyrics by Scot, now Australian, Eric Bogle.

      All The Fine Young Men

      They told all the fine young men,
      “Ah, when this war is over,
      There will be peace,
      And the peace will last forever.”
      In Flanders Fields,
      At Lone Pine and Bersheeba,
      For king and country,
      Honour and for duty,
      The young men fought and cursed and wept and died.

      They told all the fine young men,
      “Ah, when this war is over,
      In your country’s grateful heart
      We will cherish you forever.”
      Tobruk and Alamein,
      Bhuna and Kokoda,
      In a world mad with war,
      Like their fathers before,
      The young men fought and cursed and wept and died.

      For many of those fine young men
      All the wars are over,
      They’ve found their peace,
      It’s the peace that lasts forever.
      When the call comes again,
      They will not answer,
      They’re just forgotten bones,
      Lying far from their homes,
      Forgotten as the cause for which they died.
      Ah, Bluey, can you see now why they lied?

      Strangely. but then maybe not, I could no longer find a youtube of Eric Bogle singing this but Mary Black does a good version.

    125. Chic McGregor says:

      P.S. the non ‘Australised’ version used to end:

      Oh young men, can you see now why they lied?

    126. crazycat says:

      @ galamcennelath

      My great-uncle (also in the RSF) died at Ypres in 1917 at the age of 20.

      Tomorrow when I go to buy The National at the Co-op, I’ll cross the road and check out the Victory Park memorial and do a bit of remembering for both our relatives we never knew.

    127. Fireproofjim says:

      Lenny Hartley
      WWI’s start was extremely complex, but here is a very brief and incomplete synopsis.
      Frank Ferdinand, heir to the Austrian- Hungarian Empire was murdered by a Serbian Nationalist or anarchist, who wanted to see that Empire split up into the various nations it comprised.
      Austria then made various demands on Serbia for reparations, which it rejected, so Austria mobilised and declared war on Serbia. Serbia appealed to Russia, their ally, so Russia mobilised and moved to attack Austria-Hungary.
      Germany was allied to Austria, so Germany mobilised and started moving trains of troops to the Russian front. Russia invoked their alliance with France so France mobilised. Germany then moved into neutral Belgium to attack Northern France, and so Britain, which had guaranteed Belgian neutrality, joined France against Germany.
      Italy joined the Allies as they had a border dispute with Austria, and Turkey joined the Germans because they had long-standing ambitions in the Balkans.
      And they still thought it would be all over by Christmas.
      At the last minute George V appealed to the Kaiser to think again but was ignored.

      was obliged to join France and Belgium in resisting Germany.

    128. AuldGranny says:

      I’m ex forces. Many of my family and ancestors were also in the forces. They fought in various wars or, as they call them now, “conflicts”.

      To my mind, Remembrance Day has now been corrupted into mere jingoism.

      We now see Brexiters wearing poppies the size of Tea plates to display their “patriotism”, all while spouting the kind of bile that my family fought and suffered to destroy.

      I’m done with it.

    129. Ken500 says:

      Poppy hypocracy, used by the State to cover up their complicity and lies. A total diversion of a false narrative. Any veteran should be totally supported by the authorities for whom they made the a ultimate sacrifice. Not from a rip off charity campaign. The authorities dodging the bullet of their ultimate responsibility. Many service people fought and died for a corrupt system that ultimately betrayed them. Their sacrifice is used for total propaganda by ruthless, selfish people who should know better but want to cover up their crimes.

      The State should provided for all the needs. Not Remberance services and charity. Lest we forget, it should be a complete narrative of truth and harmony for oeace, Not a twisted military campaign of a cover up of a failing State. The multimillionaire Head of.State and their sycophants who illegally benefit and who who are responsible for illegal War apposed the starving pensioners and their families. Totally incompatible with the false narrative. Lest we forget the forgotten ones,

    130. Ken500 says:

      Why do fund raisers not just put on an account no and sorting code for an Appeal. Or an address to send a cheque for those who want increased anonymity or for whom the links don’t work. An total increased amount would be raised. Re the Brains Appeal etc.

    131. ian murray says:

      It is very easy to criticize Donald Trump, but keep this in mind.On his inside team he has Dr Ben Carson (black) A Woman ran his successful election campaign and a gay man whose name escapes me.He has refused to take a salary as President.
      And before you start, do you really think he is the kind of person to hire for window dressing?
      Illegal immigrants and terrorists can simply walk across the border, the US has to secure that border and should have done it years ago

    132. Ken500 says:

      The starving, empoverished Russian people wanted no involvement in the 1WW (or the 2WW) They viewed it as a ‘capitalists’ conflict and campaign. Calls were made to advise the working people of Europe not to take part in them. For working people to unite and resist the conflict.

      They Russian saved the West in the 11WW. They made the greatest sacrifice. 26Milkion Russians died and Russian was devasted. It resulted in a Militarily Defence State to protect it’s borders. Create a buffer. Lest we forget.

      1WW was caused by the European Royals. (The dominate British Royal family and their relatives) No universal suffrage, but ‘the divine right of Kings’ protected by ‘God’. Reined over, Some absolute monarchs and their interdependant ‘Treaties’ and rivalries, The European Royals were inbred. Cousins married cousins.The Royal cousins, the Czar, Nicolas 11 the Kaiser Wilheim and the ‘Bertie’ King of England. A philanderer of disreputed character. Queen Victoria’s daughters, sons and grandsons, There was remarkable physical resemblances between them, Queen Victoria’s mother and husband were German. Millions died to protect this archaic system.

      A Including the intransigent Czar who helped caused the conflict and his family, Wilheim lost his position and was demoted eventually dying. The British Royal family managed to survived and rewrite the dialogues. ‘Long’ live the King’. To misrule ‘Us’? Russian Revolution 1917. The Bolshevik Revolution. The Russian people were starving and had been completely denied workers rights and any kind of equality. The Industrial Revolution had brought changes in the late 1890’s but did not bring sufficent changes to safeguard the society or economy.

      More people died during the 1WW of illness than of conflict. A ‘Spanish’ flu epidemic wiped out half of the population of Europe. Culled the people. The 1WW led to an imbalance of gender within the population and resulted in Womens’ right to vote. Universal suffrage came in 1928.

      There is an argument for a constitutional monarchy but only if the Head of State is totally unbiased. Slims down and bows out. Often that is not the case.

      Use your vote wisely. Know the details. To change the path of history.

      Andy Murray’s a sporting hero. No 1. Folk can’t get enough of him.

    133. manandboy says:

      As with so much else, so also with Remembrance Day.

      “Some people are so effectively indoctrinated they simply do not know that they do not know.
      They might eventually garner insight from looking back at old headlines or programming because distance sometimes gives a better perspective, but in the main people tend to accept the output uncritically at the time of the actual broadcast.” (From the Guardian comments – no name)

      Thankfully, more and more people in Scotland are waking up to the reality of British propaganda. It’s just taking a little longer than we hoped. Like waiting for the clothes on the line to dry – in the rain.

    134. And so it begins. Tory donors and ‘leading businessmen’ are urging May and the Right Wing Junta to use Farage as a go-between with Trump to rebuild this ‘special relationship that the London Barrow Boys want to maintain between the Holy London Empire and the US of A( Wall Street, the American Military, the Neo Liberal Republicans and Democrats, and the US Military and Industrial Complex).
      Meanwhile Trump announces that he will be deporting or imprisoning 2, no, make that 3, million illegal Mexicalis who are rapists murderers and/or drug dealers; oh, and the wall might not all be of brick, some of it may barbed wire fencing, or palings.
      May is about to hand the Government of the UK over to Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson in the most blindingly obvious coup d’état in UK history, to a fanfare of Mail Express Sun and Telegraph hack trumpeters, declaring that it is the overwhelming will of the British People; well, 17 million of Them anyroads.
      We are well down the road to Orwell’s dystopian world now.
      Our only hope is that enough Scottish citizens will opt for self determination as an independent state within the European Community.
      Or when England starts rounding up hundreds of thousands of ‘illegals’ and transporting them via ‘holding pens’, ‘back where they came from’ will we stand by and watch while the newly formed UK Border Protection Brigade mushrooms into Farage’s Personal Army?
      The clip of the Channel Islands Occupation is chilling to say the least.
      England seems to be lost to right wing zealots now.
      Self Determination for Scotland is looking like our only escape pod.

    135. Macart says:

      Quite a time in human history. 2016 has been a year to forget so far.

      A lot of people out there making capital of fear, hatred and difference. Doesn’t matter whether they believe it or not themselves, they use it for their own advantage. Its another political tool to some, an ideology to others. The real test for people the world over is in how they respond when faced with it.

      I wonder if this time round we’ll pass or fail?

    136. Ken500 says:

      Obama/Clinton the total failures. Made false promises and did not deliver. Every country in the world seeks to secure it’s borders and prevent illegal immigration. The trouble is US/UK and France caused the mass migration and suffering of people into Europe. Caused by bombing the Middle East to bits for years.

      Obama played the race card and Clinton played the gender care to win. They both were complete dangerous failures. Lying warmongers who killed innocent men women and children for their own gain.

      Trump has more ability and outlook to see through the outcome of their vacant, destructive decisions of which American people paid the price. Obama/Clinton et al have cause destruction and anxiety around the world.

      Trump’s family are hardworking, decent people. They have no airs and graces as they pass through Aberdeen/shire, They are pleasant and engaging with everyone. Taking routine flights and driving ordinary cars to the driving ranch. Pity about the small no of compulsive, lying Green opponents and few, lying hypocrite neighbours. They maliciously fed the lying, ill researched Press with bias and misinformation of excess of bias intention, Never gave the majority opposing view. Causing the prestigious Development to stall. Ignoring the wishes of the majority of neighbours who whole heartedly supported the asset to the community and the region.

      The Greens and neighbours bullied Trump to order to line their pockets. They are despised in the locality and region for their greed, avarice and malicious intention, The Greens will never be endorsed for their culpable intention to hold back prosperity, economic growth and invention. The ‘crofters’ brother does not support his position and despises him for the malicious avarice intentions,

      Since Trump arrived Golfing holidays in Scotland have doubled. At least Trump flies in his own jet not illegally in Airforce 1, like Clinton paid for by US taxpayers. A complete abuse of power. A terrible, terrible person. Drain the swamp. Trump called them out for what they were and they sure did not appreciate it. The American people did.

      Many wealthy people can be encountered by hangers on and sycophants who want to relieve them of and benefit from their money. They can give malice account to achieve their endeavour. Every man and woman on the Planet has been subject to inappropriate touching of various degrees. For mild offence to total trauma. There are provision for appropriate recompense through the Law and legal system. From apology, to recompense or imprisonment for total trauma or violence, Even through the civil system. All touched by this can appeal through this system till proven.

      The Churches are involved in cover up of malicious violent molestation, including of children. In Boston there were covers up. When victims came forward they were either discredited, maligned or killed in fatal ‘accidents’. In order that the accusations were withdrawn with not further scrutiny, Film ‘Spotlight’ won an Oscar. An account of when the Press held up the case of criminal justice with research and diligence. Unfortunately that is not always the case. Peddling double standards and suppressing information because of status. Saville etc.

      Prince Andrew and Clinton were allegedly involved in rape of molestation of underage, young girls at meeting organised by their associates. JF Kennedy etc.extra activities with Billy Jean. Elton Johns related accusation. D notices. Double standard. Swept under the carpet. A special relationship.

      Statistically Trump has a one in five chance of lasting 4 years. A quite low 20% chance of survival. Thatcher ‘ boys will be boys’. The Unionist Parties involvement in routine molestation and targeting of vulnerable people. The Routine cover up. Keith Vaz, Sewell, Osbourne, Blair, Johnson etc.

    137. Ken500 says:

      Trump does not suffer fools or hangers on gladly. Farague and the Tory/Unionists. Watch this space, Farague is a financial criminal. In the US if they are caught and found guilty there is punitive punishment. They got to prison for 30+ years. Farague survived a fatal crash. Could Farague survive the US justice system. His associate has already be arrested on charges of embezzlement and money laundering. How long is a piece of string. Given enough rope etc.

    138. Ken500 says:

      Not forgetting Trident. The obsolete false weaponry of Mass destruction while people in the world starve.

    139. sinky says:

      O/T UKOK Labour letter writers in Herald complaining about Tories getting rid of Triple Lock for pensioners. The same people who assurred us that only by remaining in UK would these be safeguarded.

      And Alex Rowley still confused as he now wants Home Rule in a Confederal UK.

    140. From ‘Mrs Miniver’.
      The Wilcoxon speech is frequently cited in books about Hollywood’s World War II films as exemplary of the kind of filmmaking that helped mobilize the United States to war in defense of its ENGLISH allies.
      The Vicar:

      “We, in this quiet corner of ENGLAND, have suffered the loss of friends very dear to us– some close to this church: George West, choir boy; James Bellard, station master and bell ringer and a proud winner, only one hour before his death, of the Belding Cup for his beautiful Miniver rose; and our hearts go out in sympathy to the two families who share the cruel loss of a young girl who was married at this altar only two weeks ago.”

    141. Famous15 says:

      Chic Brodie the Neville Chamberlin of the SNP.

    142. Fred says:

      @ Ian Murray, is this the same Trump who never paid his taxes? well I never! billionaire refuses salary!

    143. Nana says:

      Many Lewismen lost their lives. One family from the village of Portnaguran lost four sons. I can not begin to imagine what that mother went through.

      My aunt was among those who saw the Iolaire disaster unfold and could do nothing to help. To be so close to home and see the lights and land, just heart breaking.

      Churchill a loathsome man who would welcome Trump with open arms

    144. Breeks says:


      He was serious then….

      The only saving grace for us all is that I don’t believe Trump has the focus and sociopathic single mindedness to be a second Adolph Hitler.

      Trump is no Hitler incarnate, he’s an idiot showman who now has to make good on his idiotic rhetoric.

      It isn’t Trump that concerns me. It’s the new world order apparent where xenophobia, racism, and vilification are mainstream agendas which are casually accepted as legitimate. We have all moved to a different point on the spectrum.

      If you took Trump and Farage out of their present circumstance and placed them both in the same Used Car Lot in Dagenham, the dangerous rift in the time and space continuum would be healed and natural order of the universe restored.

      Don’t worry folks… I’m sure Dr Who will be along to fix all of this any minute….

    145. Smallaxe says:

      No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

      Trump,Farage, and their kind serve only themselves,they care not for people only for profit and power.The colour of a persons skin matters not to them,but only the amount of wealth that person may have.

      They spread dissent amongst us only to confuse and to keep us looking elsewhere while they rob rape and murder innocents to further their own desires.These parasites have nothing without the consent of us, the people.Without our acceptance they are nothing.

      This supposed power must be wrested from them, preferably by the ballot box and as soon as possible.

      This beautiful planet is more than capable of feeding clothing and housing all of Mankind.Education of these facts to the many will free us from the tyranny of the few.

      Peace Always

    146. louis.b.argyll says:

      That was the worst ‘look the moon’ distraction yet.
      BBC guest scientist just said..

      ‘for reasons we don’t fully understand.. the moon looks larger when lower in the sky.

    147. Famous15 says:

      Does Trump refusing his presidential salary mean he does not need to file tax returns?

      Just searching for sense in an insane world.

      Chic Brodie on again. Neville Chamberlain was never so coherent.

      Scotland has vast wealth,unrivalled opportunities for use of natural resouces,sits in the most strategic maritime position on earth and has been brainwashed to think it is incapable of effective self government.

      Perhaps we should try the crooked Hillary trick and call out crooked Theresa at every opportunity but crooked Tory Ruthie might not like it.

    148. orri says:

      Had never considered why the White Poppy wouldn’t go down well other than the obvious thought that it might be seen as a criticism of the Red.

      Brief reading up on it,


      Shows they campaigned in Northern Ireland in the’70s and against the Falklands war.

      The NI would have them line up with the “Troops Out”

      Not only that but they’ve strong links to the Coop movement and Labour.

      Personally I don’t wear either poppy these days.

      On other news, I don’t seem to remember seeing so many “commemorative” programs about WW1 recently. Perhaps because by this time we’ve definitely got into “Black Adder Goes Forth” territory.

    149. McBoxheid says:

      John H. says:
      13 November, 2016 at 5:23 pm

      McBoxheid 5.13pm.

      That’s one of the things that sickens me about the British State. They talk about “heroes” and “our boys”. Then when they’re finished with them they are kicked aside without a thought.

      It’s ok though, Harry has a new girlfriend.


      Thanks for that John. That’ll cheer the men up, when they’re dodging mortar fire and suicide bombers, eh. Nothing like knowing that the Prince of the kingdom has found someone else to roger to keep the mind sharp and on the job.

      Just think, the joy of another royal wedding to bull the boots for. I do hope she is fecund, though. One does so worry about the royal line, especially under mortar fire!

      Carry on chaps, whatoh!

    150. Smallaxe says:


      Good Morning, thank you for your links,my day is complete.Kettle’s on.

      Peace Always

    151. Grouse Beater says:

      Ian Murray: “It is very easy to criticize Donald Trump

      And just as easy to whitewash him when you’re smug enough to feel he can’t do you any harm.

    152. Grouse Beater says:

      “Just heard BBC TV news announce a week of programmes looking at how unequal/equal Scotland actually is. Wages, education, health and so on!!”

      Aye, terrific.

      Nice and safe now; the BBC would never broadcast such facts before the Referendum when it mattered!

      They must be pretty certain there isn’t going to be another.

    153. galamcennalath says:

      Dark nationalism is at the heart of all wars. British Nationalism only ever seems to have a dark side!

      Good article from Ian Macwhirter ….

      “Like neo-liberals, socialists see nations as essentially irrational, pre-modern anachronisms. But there is no such thing as an international working class, only working people living in pre-existing moral communities called nations. ….. the celebrated Scottish writer, Tom Nairn, always argued, nationalism is Janus-faced. It has an open, democratic anti-imperial face and a dark side of ethnic and racial supremacism. Keeping it on the democratic straight and narrow requires eternal vigilance.”

      ( doesn’t archive the whole article)

    154. bugsbunny says:

      Grousebeater, is that yhe same Ian Murray that lives in Morningside and works in London? Lol.

    155. Valerie says:

      @Jack Collatin

      It’s not like us cybernats didn’t forecast a Boris/Farage coalition, and ultimately in No 10.

      Anyone that was on line prior to indyref will back that up. We confidently said it would be a right wing Tory gov’t, and BoJo and Farage would be there, if not in cabinet.

      All through 2014, I was ridiculed for that.

      Even though Cameron was a shit PM, we will soon be invoking him as the good old days.

    156. For I’ll go no more waltzing Matilda, all around the green bush far and free
      To hump tent and pegs, a man needs both legs-no more waltzing Matilda for me.
      So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed, and they shipped us back home to Australia.
      The legless, the armless, the blind, the insane, those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
      And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay, I looked at the place where me legs used to be.
      And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me, to grieve, to mourn, and to pity.

      I cannot sing along with this painful song written by a Scottish émigré in the 70’s.
      Since 2014 the BBC and the English Establishment has gorged itself in Commemoration Poppy Porn.
      Parades and guns; Blood and Guts; the Glory Days. For Queen and Country. Oh Christ, preserve us from these nuts.
      They are hell bent on destroying the world.

    157. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nana, I knew an old lady on Skye who had been sent down to the Midlands on war work when she was a girl. It was quite a culture shock for a Gaelic speaker whose mother spoke no English. Churchill turned up on a factory visit, reeking of booze. She said he was totally arrogant and barely looked at the workers. She had some very hard words for him.

      I think the Iolaire disaster is possibly the most heart-breaking loss of life of WW1, given the troops were almost home and had survived a terrible war.

    158. Liz g says:

      Ian Murray @ 5.54am
      Go check out Dr Ben Carson,Ian
      I don’t think for a minute that him being black does anything to indicate to me Trump’s view on race.
      Dr Carson is a full on Kids , Kitchen & Kirk type
      Raging pro lifer…and don’t get me wrong I would never insist that he have a termination,or anyone else who thinks that it’s a sin.
      My issue is with those who force that position on others.
      Trump doesn’t need to be racist or Misogynistic himself,it really matters not.
      What actually matters is that he will legislate for those who are..Why do I say this??? Because I have heard him promise to,a few years back on Info War’s.
      Go check it out.

    159. Clootie says:

      Bob Mack hit the nail on the head for me. I take nothing away from the sacrifice made by service personnel but the military are only part of Remembrence day. It may have started as a military rememberence event but surely we should now dedicate the service to ALL who died. It is unfortunately a sad statistic that at least 10X to 100X as many civilians die in conflicts compared to the forces involved. It should be for all who died across EVERY nation.

      Poppy Day has become politicised. It is military parades when it should be about reminding the World about the horrors of war. If it is about money…why are our military personnel not being looked after by our government?

      I wish to give BUT I would prefer the military/political spin to be turned down.

      Perhaps if the horrors dominated the day politicians would hesitate before voting for “intervention” in Iraq/Lybia/Syria etc. Perhaps the concept of a replacement for Trident would be less popular.

      …the next war may not leave anyone to attend a memorial service.

    160. Returnofthemac says:

      Alex Rowley states that Westmonster cannot deliver the sort of social society he envisages. Hey ho join the club. Is Alex thinking of deserting the sinking labour in Scotland ship?

    161. Bob Millar says:


      Just started reading ‘Hidden History – The secret Origins of the First World War’ ( Mainstream ). Implies Britain engineered WW1 to put Germany back in its box. Worth a read.

    162. Breeks says:

      Controversial? Where is the harm?

      Personally, I don’t like bigots, or apologists for bigots, adopting war hero’s as a human shield for their bigotry.

      The donation and support could have been quiet, reflective, discreet and anonymous. But no, that’s just not how Britnat Unionism works is it?

    163. Grouse Beater says:

      BBC staff flaunt poppies while the corporation broadcasts an interview with fascist Marine Le Pen on Remembrance Day.

      Happily, we take comfort knowing the BBC is impartial.

    164. Smallaxe says:


      Now Arthur was only a young cub
      A brave lion and merely fifteen
      But with the rest of his pack
      He was sent to attack
      To a war that was cruel and obscene
      But those lions fought hard and fought bravely
      While the donkeys just grazed in a field
      They had no sense of shame for their barbarous game
      And the thousands of lions they killed
      And when he saw them marching up Whitehall
      I remember what old Arthur said
      He said the donkeys are all wearing poppies
      So I shall wear dandelions instead
      Now every remembrance Sunday
      Well I pause at eleven o’clock
      And I remember those dandy young lions
      And those donkeys and their poppycock
      Cos they’ve taken those beautiful poppies
      And they use them to glorify war
      Well I remember those dandy young lions
      And I don’t wear a poppy no more
      And when he saw them marching up Whitehall
      I remember what old Arthur said
      He said the donkeys are all wearing poppies
      So I shall wear dandelions instead
      Now if you take an old dandelion
      And just blow it quite gently he’d say
      You can see all the dreams of those soldiers
      In the seeds as they just float away
      But then the wind takes hold of those seeds
      And they rise and quickly they soar
      Like the spirit of all those old soldiers
      Who believed that their war would end war
      And when he saw them marching up Whitehall
      I remember what old Arthur said
      He said the donkeys are all wearing poppies
      So I shall wear dandelions instead
      Cos those lions were dandy young workers
      Who those donkeys so cruelly misled
      And if the Donkeys are gonna wear poppies
      I shall wear dandelions instead.

      Peace Always

    165. Lenny Hartley says:

      Capella at 2344 thanks for that! Should have Sussed out that WW1 was about oil.

      In case folks missed the link here it is again. Will need to have a look at Robert Newmans other sketches, seems an astute young man.

    166. Grouse Beater says:

      Man and Boy: “More and more people in Scotland are waking up to the reality of British propaganda. It’s just taking a little longer than we hoped. Like waiting for the clothes on the line to dry – in the rain.”

      I hope so, MaB, I hope so.

    167. Fred says:

      @ Jack Collatin, went to see Eric Bogle at Birnam on his final? tour. He said his auntie in Motherwell phoned Oz to see if he was deid after watching Tony Blair addressing a school & telling the weans that this song, “And the Band Played!” etc, was written by a man who died in the war!

    168. Terry says:

      Thankful villages. I’d never heard the term til this year. It refers to those villages in England and Wales where all the soldiers returned home alive from WW1. Guess what? There are none in scotland. Nor Ireland. They keep that one quiet.

    169. Craig P says:

      Glamaig – that is a really interesting quote from Zygmunt Bauman.

      He is right – civilisation is not the opposite of mass atrocity. It is the pre-requisite for mass atrocity. When people ask “how could an advanced western civilisation like Germany produce the holocaust?” the answer is *because* they were advanced.

    170. galamcennalath says:


      “…activists at the party’s autumn conference in Dunfermline, Fife, backed an amended motion making clear they should “explore all options, except independence, that may allow Scotland to retain the benefits of EU membership”.”

      …. doomed to extinction.

    171. Andrew McLean says:

      Ian Murray says:5:54
      And how many terrorist have crossed the border? I thought they flew in, (no pun Intended)
      Ken500 says: Remember this Ken, Not all quiet on the home front.

      my grandfather said the government wanted to start a war with Russia in 1918, as the king had promised the White Russians of his support, but the risk of violent insurrection in the UK was to probable, they don’t tell you that on the BBC, least we forget.

    172. Glamaig says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      14 November, 2016 at 11:30 am

      The Allied campaigns against the Bolsheviks in 1918-20 seem to be forgotten. Including the Japanese (an ally in WW1) deploying 70000 troops in Siberia.

      All sorts of interesting and obscure stuff here, pretty much airbrushed from history.

    173. Macart says:


      Aye, there’s a gaping flaw in his argument. Actually, there are several, but we’ll go with the biggest. Its not up to Willie Rennie what gets explored or acted upon.

      The second biggie of course is that Scotland is a popular sovereignty. The opinion of the Scottish electorate has been sought twice in referendums in recent years. The second referendum we did not ask for, did not vote for, but we were forced to take part in anyway.

      Now Willie isn’t all that bright so maybe explaining it to him very slowly and very loudly would help. Possibly also the use of crayons and primary colours may be involved.

      But the short of it is that the results of the two referendums we took part in are constitutionally incompatible. Both outcomes affect Scotland on national and international levels. Both affect our civic and political status, our economy, our life chances, our relationship with the world. Y’know, small stuff.

      How and ever, being a popular sovereignty and fully entitled under the UN charter to the inalienable right of self determination, it kind of stands out to anyone but Willie apparently, that only one authority will settle the choice facing Scotland’s population.

      That would be Scotland’s population themselves Willie.

      If you’re listening like.

    174. Greannach says:

      My grandfather won three medals in WW2 for his actions in northern France and Belgium. He never took anything to do with the poppy industry which he felt had nothing to do with remembering those who died. I follow his example.

    175. Breeks says:

      Terry @ 11:21

      That’s a new term to me also Terry. Never heard it before as far as I can recall.

      Have to kick it around my head for a couple of days to mull it over and decide how I feel about it.

      For some reason it brought to to mind Selkirk Common Riding… which commemorates the one man who returned from the Battle of Flodden in 1513, when there were 80 men of Selkirk who had left.

    176. Legerwood says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      14 November, 2016 at 10:51 am
      “”BBC staff flaunt poppies while the corporation broadcasts an interview with fascist Marine Le Pen on Remembrance Day.

      Happily, we take comfort knowing the BBC is impartial.””

      Not just the staff but anyone who comes within spitting distance of a camera. It has reached ridiculous levels. I believe the contestants on Strictly Come Dancing wore poppies on their costumes – can’t verify because I never watch it. There was a puppet on the One Show and they stuck a poppy on that! HIGNFY highlighted it on Friday.

      The BBC has cheapened the whole thing.

      Ed Milliband’s wife had a baby shortly after he became leader. He was photographed leaving the hospital shortly afterwards looking like all new fathers and casually dressed in jumper and open-necked shirt – and a poppy pinned to the jumper. How many men would bother doing that before going to the maternity ward with his wife?

      It is that sort of poppy tyranny that puts me off. I buy one but don’t wear it and this year I did not even buy one because it has just got so bad.

      But I never forget.

    177. Onwards says:


      “And Alex Rowley still confused as he now wants Home Rule in a Confederal UK.”

      Home Rule in a Confederal UK isn’t a million miles away from the SNP vision of independence proposed at the referendum, sharing the pound etc

      Independence has the advantage of full sovereignty, working backwards to retain common links.

    178. Dorothy Devine says:

      Legerwood , the poppies that got me were pinned on some braw loons in a coo field – obviously they put them on themselves!

    179. Brian Powell says:


      Interesting to see how they sell that to their voters, without explaining exactly how it would be achieved, as there are no benefits of being a member of the EU available without being in the EU.

    180. Bob Mack says:

      I can’t get my head round these “Thankful villages” .I live in a small Perthshire town which was probably a lot smaller in the 1900’s, and yet we have a memorial with lots of names on it. You live and learn right enough.
      I think that strange. The odds of these villages having no casualties must be phenomenal.

    181. Cuilean says:

      How do you get volume on that BBC clip?

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      I did hesitate to make this comment but have decided to share it.

      My Grandparents had 6 children. Three sons and three daughters. The eldest son was exempt from military service as he worked in Pumpherston Oil Works doing a vital job. The middle son volunteered and joined the KOSB and my father, the youngest son was conscripted.

      Now that middle son, perhaps the most decent and nicest person I ever knew, spent almost the entire war with the Desert Rats and never had a single leave period back in the UK.

      At wars end he spent several years in the blue uniform of the war wounded and had several operations and eventually returned home.

      Now the family lived in a farm cottage near a small village and everyone knew everyone else, (and their business).

      Now the story gets to the Earl Haig fund. This worked by former officer class people administering who got what, (if anything), from the fund.

      In that rural area a local GP, a former army surgeon, was the administrator. Thus the villagers all knew him, (pre-NHS remember), and all the war veterans in the area.

      What they knew was that only those, and such as those, that were allowed to benefit by the old doctor got anything. My unmarried uncle got nothing although he was then the sole support of my widowed Grandmother and the state pension back then was meagre to say the least.

      Yet a former soldier who had been conscripted just before the war ended, who was not war wounded but had fallen downstairs while drunk in the army barracks in Edinburgh, he showed no outward signs of any disability and had never set foot upon foreign soil yet regularly got help from the fund.

      My uncle never wore a poppy in his life but, being the man he was, never said a bad word about the Earl Haig fund nor complained about his lot.

      Furthermore, like many another who had suffered in the war, he never ever spoke of his time in uniform and what he had suffered there.

      The reality of remembrance is exposed in this song :-

      It is sung by the author of the song and is not the version most people will have heard.

    183. Fred says:

      This must be the finest village war memorial in Scotland.

    184. gus1940 says:

      I have made 6 trips to date to the WW1 Battlefields in Belgium and France and plan to return again in 2017 it being the Centenary of the Horrors of Passchendaele.

      What draws me back time and time again is seeing the horrific evidence of the utter futility of the whole thing and the evidence of the sacrifice made by the men on both sides.

      In all my visits I have never felt the slightest hostility towards the German soldiers – my only feeling of hostility is towards the politicians on both sides who contrived the whole disaster and sat in comfort at home while millions were slaughtered for What???

      Perhaps it would be a good idea if all elected politicians at both WM and the Devolved Parliaments were made to go on a trip to The WW1 Battlefields – not a quick in and out but a comprehensive tour. If they attended the nightly Last Post Ceremony at The Menin Gate in Ieper perhaps they would shed a quiet tear like many who attend and go back home to think twice about going to war again.

      Something that has surprise me is that we are now past the the centenary of the first 3 years of WW1 and there is till no sign of anybody making a movie on the subject of The War.

      How many American movies have we endured with the Yanks apparently winning WW2 single handed – but of course they were only involved in the fag end of WW1.

      Would it be possible for somebody to come up with a suitably respectful screenplay covering the tragic story of The Iolaire.

    185. macnakamura says:

      Post election song from The Trumpets ….
      ” Three wee craws sat upon a metaphor”

    186. handandShrimp says:

      The whole Trump, Farage, Brexit, Breitbart thing is an unholy mess. One minute Trump sounds conciliatory the next a champion of the far right white supremacist Christian conservatives.

      It looks like being a bumpy ride. How I wish we were independent.

    187. sarah says:

      It has often been said but I still think it is a good idea – send the Government which is contemplating war to the area concerned. Send them in the same condition as the armed services. Now that really would make them think.

      Imagine a platoon of Government ministers, perhaps with backup from Opposition politicians like Hilary Benn.

      I’m confident that such an experience would definitely be “a war to end all wars”.

    188. Grouse Beater says:

      Hand and Shrimp “The whole Trump, Farage, Brexit, Breitbart thing is an unholy mess.”

      The same people who suggest we should wait and see what Trump does, that he might mellow in office, would never suggest a kiddy fiddler should live in their street because he might alter his behaviour.

    189. Smallaxe says:

      Robert Peffers says:”My Grandparents had 6 children.

      My own Grandparents also had 6 children, Mr. Peffers, my Grandfather was a Gordon Highlander in WW1,he was shot twice and gassed once at Ypres.He also applied to the Earl Haig fund during a time of extreme hardship and received nothing.

      He lived until I was 16yrs old and the advice that he gave to me was “Don’t ever join up and if you are conscripted, avoid the Yanks at all costs,stick like glue to the Canadians or the Australians they have a brain in their head and are just like us”

      I never joined up, nor was I conscripted.

      Peace and Love to You and to those that you Love,Sir

    190. Smallaxe says:

      Robert Peffers:

      I meant to leave you this song in my post.

      Peace Always

    191. Nana says:

      Thought you would like to see this

      SNP MEP Alyn Smith receives a standing ovation for his speech to the German Greens Party conference in Muenster.

    192. Nana says:

      Meant to say a lot of it is in German, sure some of you will be able to follow

    193. @Glamaig

      A large part of the Japanese Navy (17 warships) was stationed in the Med during WW1,

      mostly escorting/protecting troop (700,000 troops crossed the Med) and merchant ships from German subs,

    194. Graeme says:

      Hi Smallaxe

      My Grandfather served a gunner in WW1 I’m not sure where he fought but I think it was Passchendaele, also wounded twice, he died when I was 15 but I remember him speaking openly about his experiences and he said exactly the same thing about the Americans and Australians as your Grandfather

      Small world


    195. Juteman says:

      A Uni friend of my daughter said something today, and I thought it was worth posting.
      She said that all the nice folk she knew voted Yes, and all the angry folk voted No.

    196. One_Scot says:

      Just been directed to this about postal votes,

      It makes your blood boil re-living it. If IndyRef2 does not restrict postal vote to medical/holiday and prevent the Yoons from access to them, then we are in trouble.

    197. Smallaxe says:


      We are both lucky enough to remember our Grandfathers,I have often thought that if he had not survived that Hellish conflict that I would never have been born and I think of those who were not born for that very reason.

      Here is the story explaining the song that I posted to Mr.Peffers.

      “Joseph MacKenzie wrote the haunting lament after the death of his wife, Christine, and in memory of his great-grandfather, Charles Stuart MacKenzie, a sergeant in the Seaforth Highlanders, who along with hundreds of his brothers-in-arms from the Elgin-Rothes area in Moray, Scotland went to fight in World War I. Sergeant MacKenzie was bayoneted to death at age 35, while defending one of his badly injured fellow soldiers during hand-to-hand trench warfare

      Sgt. Charles Stuart MacKenzie went to fight in France during World War I and was shot in the shoulder. The military sent him home to Scotland for treatment, where the surgeon wanted to amputate his arm. Sgt. MacKenzie refused, stating that he had to go back to his men. While recuperating in the hospital, he was asked what it was like to kill “the Hun” (as the Germans were called then). He replied, “what a waste of a fine body of men”. His last picture, with him in uniform, was taken on the steps of the hospital. This picture hung in his home above the fireplace. Upon his return to the front, he and his men were engaged in fixed bayonet combat. The composer says, To the best of my knowledge, and taken from reports of the returning soldiers, one of his close friends fell, badly wounded. Charles stood his ground and fought until he was overcome and died from bayonet wounds. On that day, my great grandmother and my grandmother were sitting at the fire when the picture fell from the wall. My great grandmother looked, and said to my grandmother “Oh, my bonnie Charlie’s dead”. Sure enough, a few days passed, and the local policeman brought the news – that Sgt. Charles Stuart MacKenzie had been killed in action. This same picture now hangs above my fireplace. A few years back my wife Christine died of cancer, and in my grief, I looked at his picture to ask what gave him the strength to go on. It was then, in my mind, that I saw him lying on the field and wondered what his final thoughts were. The words and music just appeared into my head. I believe the men and women like yourself who are prepared to stand their ground for their family – for their friends – and for their country; deserve to be remembered, respected and honoured. “Sgt. MacKenzie”, is my very small tribute to them. After “Sgt. MacKenzie” was first released on our Tried and True CD album in 2000, a copy of the song made its way to the hands of Hollywood director, Randall Wallace and actor Mel Gibson. Immediately they both agreed that “Sgt. MacKenzie” should feature prominently in their upcoming movie We Were Soldiers. The rest, as they say – is history! —?Joseph Kilna MacKenzie”

      I’m a warrior born and bred, but now, at 67, I reflect more on the tragedy of it all, and the young lives lost in their prime. Sometimes, war IS necessary, but often is old men like me sending young men to kill or be killed in wars based on lies.
      Folks, keep a very close eye on politicians, most are venal. vain and utterly immoral, or worse, amoral.
      When you let them deceive you, wars happen, and it is those in uniform, their loved ones, and innocent civilians deemed “collateral damage” who pay the price.
      That applies to anyone, in any country.
      Peace to all.?

    198. cctxt says:

      The origins of WW1 the USSR and the rise of Hitler are best explored the three important works of Prof. Anthony Sutton : Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler and Wall Street and FDR.

      his three-volume detailed account of Soviet Purchases of Western Equipment and Technology… Sutton comes to conclusions that are uncomfortable for many businessmen and economists. For this reason his work tends to be either dismissed out of hand as ‘extreme’ or, more often, simply ignored.

    199. macnakamura says:

      One_Scot says:
      14 November, 2016 at 3:01 pm
      Just been directed to this about postal votes,
      In addition,this appears below the article you linked

    200. heedtracker says:

      In Remembrance is a good title, considering how soon WW2 broke out after WW1. Our masters just cant stop themselves going to war. Desert Storm’s just the latest. The next Bush, Chennie, Blair, Brown catastrophe is waiting down the line. Will the UK become the next battlefield or will the maniacs keep it all just far enough away from themselves.

      If we had a just democracy, we would jail Blair and Brown and at least bar all the MP’s that voted for Desert Storm for ever standing for office again. But we don’t.

      My Grandad was a WW1 vet but he never spoke of it much at all. He got badly wounded in the Dardanelles, shot twice. He worked as Glasgow railway man and then accountant and he died in his mid 90’s, in a little south side Glasgow testament flat.

      Today he now has dozens of grand children all the world and he was a socialist, old school. He once said to me that they should have shot the generals and come home. The Russians did. I think the Germans did too. He said he only survived because he was teenager and some battlefield medics were gifted and fearless. Otherwise, it was all over.

    201. @Smallaxe

      have to come to the rescue of the yanks,

      my grandfather,Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders,was injured and left for dead,

      was picked up 2 days later by an American stretcher team,and received major surgery,

      although he lost his leg,he always says if the British had picked him up he would not have survived,

      my dad says that the only time he mentioned the war was when something called `The Bull Run` was brought up (?)

      supposedly a hated army camp set up to
      retrain/discipline/condition war weary soldiers.

    202. heedtracker says:

      Looks like Graun’s just given up reporting on any thing Scotland at all these days. A UK national newspaper that knows no boundaries n shit.

      “Never has the world needed fearless independent media more” but that Guardian world ends at Berwick.

      They’ll be back, to stamp out Scottish democracy just like last time because they’re so progressive and liberal and fearless:-(

    203. Chic McGregor says:

      Nae mair will our bonnie callants
      Merch tae war whan our braggarts crousely craw
      Nor wee weans frae pitheid an clachan
      Murn the ships sailin doun the Broomielaw
      Broken faimilies in launs we’ve hairriet
      Will curse ‘Scotlan the Brave’ nae mair, nae mair
      Black an white ane-til-ither mairriet
      Mak the vile barracks o thair maisters bare

      Hamish Henderson

    204. mike d says:

      O/t the reason trains were allowed over the badly damaged Lamington viaduct in south Lanarkshire after storms in 2015,was because of,wait for it dah dah. “Organisational”changes at network rail. Fcuk all to do with cutbacks and shareholders making a profit i suppose. Wonder if they’ll try and blame it on the baaad snp.

    205. galamcennalath says:

      Brian Powell says:

      Interesting to see how they [ LibDems ] sell that to their voters, without explaining exactly how it would be achieved, as there are no benefits of being a member of the EU available without being in the EU.


      “On Saturday, the Scottish Liberal Democrats confirmed themselves as unconditional Unionists.”

    206. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      O/T – I don’t think this link’s been posted on this page.

      It’s to a survey on alternative and pro-indy media, being carried out by Strathclyde Uni.

    207. Smallaxe says:

      Scot Finlayson says:

      I’m pleased your Grandfather survived Scot, or like myself you probably would not be here today.I suppose everyone had their own opinion during those dark years,no opinion better than another.I’m just happy that we did not have to fight in “the war to end all wars”.I am extremely proud of today’s armed forces and sickened by the politicians who send them into battle for profit.

      Peace Always

    208. louis.b.argyll says:

      No private companies shoulder involved in counting elections.

      They should be not for profit organisations like public trust, with proper governance and a required level of transparency.

      Scot Gov should block these companies mow.

    209. SOG says:

      I wore a red poppy. It was for my father-in-law, who was wounded and captured at Arnhem, and for the uncle I never knew, killed in Korea. I don’t expect that either had much say in where they went or what they did.

      I do believe that after Arnhem Montgomery should have been fired, but by then he’d been feted by the media too long, was too big a figure to be allowed to fail. Of course it helped that he had the ear of Churchill.

    210. Another Union Dividend says:


      “In 2014 we oil extracted from the North Sea worth £37.3bn, allocated, not to Scotland, but to an “unknown region”. We thought we might lose £5.3bn in a hard Brexit, but we have our very own Bermuda Triangle where, in 2014 alone, £37.3bn simply disappeared.

      Then it gets worse: we now have “ghosts”. This is another extract from HMRC under the heading “Overseas traders registered in the UK”, it reads: “There are a number of traders who act within the UK on behalf of foreign companies overseas, operating as ‘ghost presences’.

      For ease of administration, these traders are registered for VAT purposes with Customs House, Aberdeen. The RTS system categorises this ghost trade as ‘unknown region’, as allocating it all to Scotland would falsely inflate the Scottish share and we do not have any information to enable us to re-allocate these data to other regions.”

      Just like GERS, years of integration within the UK, means that accurate figures are missing, or distorted, or hidden.”

      If Mike Fenwick’s research is correct,this is dynamite and might explain how Norway with twice the UK oil and gas output raised £9500 million in oil revenues in 2015 whereas the UK only raised £76 million (or attributed that figure to Scotland)? Or is this down to tax avoidance by multi-national oil companies operating in the UK?

    211. Cactus says:

      @Glasgow (Freedom Square update)

      Noticed today they’ve now removed the remembrance statue, put up a big green coniferous tree and prepped the glass-box for the advent display.

      Also noticed for the first time in ages, they’ve put up brand NEW seasonal lighting around our square.. alas, the moving bells be no more.. it now looks like LED lights on white festive trees and snowflakes only.

      Bird, bell, fish, tree..


    212. galamcennalath says:

      The word ‘nationalism’ is so often banded about. This page is no exception. So often the distinction between nasty ethnic nationalism and friendly civic nationalism is ignored, purposely.

      We talk about British Nationalism. Does it exist? For most adherents, they actually mean English Nationalism, or even an imperial/colonial Greater English Nationalism. What do Scots BritNats adhere to? With their wannabe English attitudes it’s not the UK they believe it, it’s also Greater England IMO.

      So why don’t we refer to British/Greater English Nationalism as Brenglish Nationalism? Then we are clear what we mean!

    213. Glamaig says:

      I think an aspect of WW1 that is neglected is psychological trauma. It must have been huge but probably either not talked about much or not recognised as a thing. I dont know. I dont know if much research has been done on this. I just had a wee search and came up with this for a start.

    214. Smallaxe says:


      Say hello to Glasgow for me.


      You had good reason to wear your Poppy,it’s the political warmongering frauds that should be under them,not wearing them.

      Peace Always

    215. Legerwood says:

      mike d says:
      14 November, 2016 at 4:14 pm
      “”O/t the reason trains were allowed over the badly damaged Lamington viaduct in south Lanarkshire after storms in 2015,was because of,wait for it dah dah. “Organisational”changes at network rail. Fcuk all to do with cutbacks and shareholders making a profit i suppose. Wonder if they’ll try and blame it on the baaad snp.””

      Network Rail is not a private company. The only shareholder, if that is the right word for it, is the UK Government.

      It is a nationalised company even if the UK Government tries to avoid using that term for it.

    216. White Van Wummin says:

      @ Lenny Hartley

      Wonder if you have read this book, it goes into the background of the ruling elite and the circumstances that led to the Great War, it’s a fair sized tome but worth the time, I thought it was immersive.

      Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great War is a book by Robert K. Massie on the growing European tension in decades before World War I, especially the naval arms race between Britain and Germany.

    217. schrodingers cat says:

      my grandfather served on the front line as a stretcher bearer, he told stories clearing the trenches of wounded and dead, immediately after the soldiers had gone over the top and the next wave of soldiers arrived into the trench to replace them. He also told of soldiers who had refused to go over the top being executed in the trenches by the mps and officers who accompanied them. He saw this happen to one young soldier, but on removing the corps, he and his buddy realised that he wasnt dead, so took him to the hospital rather than the pit. the officer responsable, recognised the soldier as he was being carried past him, where upon the officer drew his revolver again, and shot him again through the head as he lay on the stretcher.
      My father told me that my grand father had a mental breakdown sometime in the late 20s early 30s, he didnt utter a word for 4 years.

      Poppies? meh

    218. Bob Mack says:

      @Another Union Dividend,

      Brilliant article. It would appear at first glance that what is happening is that oil is being directly exported to Europe via pipeline from “Unknown Territories” . This prevents figures from appearing on the balance sheet directly against Scotland. The European companies who import the oil would then pay revenues to their “ghost figure ” registered in Aberdeen, who then transfers the revenues directly to the Treasury.

      That would again leave avoiding a trail back to Scotland.

      Maybe now we can grasp why they say they are willing to pay Scotland more per capita for public services. In reality they would still be raking in billions even if this was true.

    219. Lenny Hartley says:

      White Van Wummin Thanks for that will get a copy from the library. I have to do a bit o research into the Iraqi oil story but it sounds like it fits the bill.

      My maternal Grandfather was mentioned in dispatches during WW[ his son of the same name (my uncle) was mentioned in dispatches in WW2 in the same place! My paternal grandfather who was in the Argyl’s was gassed on the Somme and died of the effects as a young man.

      One of my friends father told him that they had more casualties from the Yanks behind them than the Germans in front of them after D day.

      One little aside about WW2 the German’s lost more soldiers in Allied concentration camps after the war than they did in the whole western front from D-day until War end. For once the British were blameless as Churchill would have nothing to do with it as he reckoned they would need the men to stop the Russians. All explained in a book called Other Losses. (Can’t remember author)

    220. Terry says:

      STV just did a bit on the green shoots of recovery in the oil industry.

    221. Cactus says:

      Hey Smallaxe ~

      Your greetings given to Glasgow, received with thanks. Coming back at cha.

      Enjoyed watching the day develop over on the secret “off-topic” page. The talk is top notch! Between yerself, CameronB Brodie, Ian Brotherhood, Tinto Chiel, Michael McCabe and Brian Doonthetoon 🙂 😉

      Eh and by the way Smallaxe..
      How’s things doing down at your border-post.. we secure?

      Aussi, has everybuddy printed off one of these yet..


    222. Orri says:

      Something else to keep an eye on is how the fight to get VAT exempt status restored for Scotland’s emergency services. Turns out NI has the same problem. Just an additional way of raising the per capita cost of governing some of the devolved regions. Watch out for the poisoned offer of additional funding rather than changing the rules.

    223. Rock says:

      Poor “plebs” are encouraged to join the army so that they can be used as cannon fodder to protect the elite and to die for imperialism.

      They are not there to protect the nation. They are there to protect the privileges of the elite.

      Unemployment and poverty are tools to entice the poor to join the armed forces.

    224. jimnarlene says:

      Just watched the video, deeply, deeply depressing.

    225. Andrew Mclean says:


      The army also has young officers, they too were butchered in the trenches, they too serve today, one pip don’t stop a round? Also most regiments do have a requirement for soldiers with brains, a lot of kit is complicated to use. So less with the plebs, mate. Slag off the political parties that warmonger, but back off from the guys, ok.

    226. mike cassidy says:

      The Man Who Never Was

      British war film based on what people now know as Operation Mincemeat.

      21 minutes in for a classic exchange involving Scottish actor Moultrie Kelsall.

    227. Smallaxe says:


      Everything secure on the BorderI am more than able to defend the gates,I have just learned a great new Martial Art.You can learn it in 5mins.

      WATCH THIS!press the blue strip.

      Peace Always Cactus

    228. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Anyone else (apart from me) completed that survey? Usually people mention if they have done so.

      It’s a chance to show the academics (and the BUM) just how important the likes of WOS, Indyref2, WGD, Commonspace and so on, are to us.

    229. Cactus says:

      Cheers also goes to Andrew McLean from “off-topic” and above.

    230. Thepnr says:

      @Bob Mack

      There are no pipelines exporting oil to mainland Europe. There is one though called Norpipe from which we import oil from Norway into Teeside.

      There are gas and gas condensate pipelines that are interconnected between the UK and Europe, mostly though we import through these.

      Many of the smaller more recent field have to deliver their oil/gas by tanker as their is no direct pipeline link, I can only assume that it is these you are talking of.

    231. K1 says:

      Cat…heartbreaking…just beyond words to listen to so many of you tell the stories of your grandparents’ experiences. Thank you for sharing all of you. Deeply moving testimony to the memory of those who died and suffered immensely.

    232. Smallaxe says:


      Job done Brian 🙂

      Peace Always

    233. K1 says:

      I’ve completed it Bdtt. Def worth spreading far and wide…

    234. ahundredthidiot says:

      oh, Rock

      you do like to let the side down don’t you.

      while you think you’re sharing a shock jock statement, all you’re really doing is coming over as a bit thick.

      Love and kisses


      A Pleb

    235. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      I completed it. Why not, might be interesting to see the final results.

    236. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Bdtt done it

    237. Smallaxe says:


      I hope Big Jock doesn’t see that.For your sake.

      Peace always

    238. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 14 November, 2016 at 5:29 pm:

      ” … We talk about British Nationalism. Does it exist? For most adherents, they actually mean English Nationalism”

      According to the Secretary of State, (Against), Scotland, David Mundel, there is absolutely no doubt that it is indeed officially English Nationalism.

      This is the text of his previous statement that he then confirmed on STV:-

      “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed The Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”

      Here is a recording of his confirmation of the claim made on STV:-

      If you cannot take what a Cabinet Minister, (A Secretary of State no less), says as truth – then who, or what, can you trust to officially tell you what the official Government policy is?

    239. Rock says:

      Andrew Mclean,

      “Also most regiments do have a requirement for soldiers with brains, a lot of kit is complicated to use. So less with the plebs, mate. Slag off the political parties that warmonger, but back off from the guys, ok.”

      Are you suggesting that the “plebs” have no brains and cannot handle a lot of the kit?

      What is their use then? Cannon fodder?

      The “plebs” are pure cannon fodder, exploited because of their poverty to serve the interests of the elite who control this rotten to the core imperialist state.

      If it was the likes of the children of Blair, Cameron and Straw who had to go and fight, there would have been no illegal wars.

    240. Dan Huil says:

      Watched “Oh, what a lovely war” the other night. Still packs a punch.

    241. mike d says:

      Mac nakamura 3. 12pm. “Postal vote management support???aye the ruthie would know all about that. Jc how much more enlightenment do fcukin yoons need

    242. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      That’s four of us done the survey.

    243. Tinto Chiel says:

      BDTT: job done.

    244. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Rock, most of the time you spend reading the comments on Wings, you don’t actually understand what you’re reading, iye?

      Hence your comment to Andrew McLean about “plebs” and “no brains”. Please, go to night classes and learn “interpretation”.

      Your reply to Andrew McLean just confirms your self-proclaimed status as being at the unedjimacated end of the pleb spectrum.

    245. mike d says:

      Andrew mclean 6.47 pm. Soldiers with brains??.sorry Andrew any young guy/gal with half a brain in today’s politically aware climate,would tell the warmongers to go fcuk themselves.

    246. schrodingers cat says:

      mike d says:
      14 November, 2016 at 8:09 pm

      Andrew mclean 6.47 pm. Soldiers with brains??.sorry Andrew any young guy/gal with half a brain in today’s politically aware climate,would tell the warmongers to go fcuk themselves.

      not true, many young folk still join up on the offer of adventure, travel, job etc, always have been, always will be. For many it is seen as a way out from dead end jobs etc. my mothers father left the pits in the rhonda to do exactly that. plenty still do.

    247. HandandShrimp says:

      Think I may take a dip into the Ayeplayer to watch Frankie Boyle dissect the US election at 9

      Link for those interested.

    248. frogesque says:

      BDTT: survey done!

    249. sarah says:

      @bddt – me too. Is that 5?

    250. Al Dossary says:

      Slightly O/T, but in response to the extra regio oil.

      BP have a new FPSO on station in the Atlantic at present, awaiting hook up and final commissioning. Quad 204 / Glen Lyon has the capacity to produce 20,000 tonnes of oil with (circa 130,000 barrels) peak per day.

      BP have already stated that they will ship this direct to Rotterdam so there is at least 130,000 barrels per day that will be missing to us. And believe me, if BP have designed quad for 130k bpd, they will fully expect to get that amount or more at peak production. The last FPSO I worked on in Norway was pumping around 115,000 bpd on a design spec of 85,000 bpd max.

      Clair Ridge should come on stream soon also, providing 100k bpd for BP also. Looks like the oil is running out again!

      Where were they built ? Korea. Around £7 Billion spent abroad, at sizeable chunk of which which could have been spent in the UK to construct the topsides if BP and the govt. had the will to. Or maybe Hyundai and Samsung play hard ball and only give priority to the hulls if they completed the entire project there.

      There are 18 or so FPSO’s currently working British waters according to wikipedia. Safe to say a lot of their oil goes direct to Rotterdam or are transferred direct at sea to one of the many ghost tankers floating around waiting on the oil price to rise.

      To give an idea of the sums involved, when I last worked in Aberdeen I came across an invoice on the printer for “export of 1 shuttle tanker worth of crude” from a certain FPSO. That invoice was for the sum of around $75,000,000 (about 8 days of production based on their current wiki page production).

    251. Bob Mack says:

      @Al Dossary,

      Thanks for that Al. It rather adds meat to the bones. Given what you say about the price of one tanker full of oil,it rather makes a mockery of the government figures for revenues.

    252. Liz g says:

      Mike d 8.09
      I think you missed Andrews point.
      The modern military are very sophisticated now,so you do need a level of intelligence to be in it.

      You are also talked up and allegedly admired by the whole country.
      You are advertised at and encouraged to think you will be able to forge a decent future for your self.
      A pretty admirable thing to want to do don’t you think?

      The military are portrayed as romantic and heroic.
      Combat is not perceived to be close up and personal anymore!
      What’s not to like.

      As you said yourself anyone who is politically aware would see it as mad to join.
      I would add that so would anyone who had a bit of knowledge of history.

      But here’s the rub not everyone is politically aware ,we know this.

      Not everyone has looked farther into the history of war than is presented for public consumption.
      We all know people who couldn’t be convinced to vote us out of a destructive Union,they are not all stupid,they have only used their intellect else where.
      So Andrew is right what ever else you can call the military personnel stupid isn’t it.

    253. crazycat says:

      @ BDTT

      I can smugly report 😉 that I had already done the survey before it was mentioned on here (I’d seen it on Twitter).

      Just catching up here and noticed you asking.

    254. HandandShrimp says:

      As you were. According to trailers Frankie should be on Ayeplayer at 9 but the site now says BBC2 at 10.30pm this Sunday.

      Or maybe not…I can’t make head nor tail of that fecking ayeplayer site.

    255. Robert Peffers says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon says: 14 November, 2016 at 8:08 pm:

      “Your reply to Andrew McLean just confirms your self-proclaimed status as being at the unedjimacated end of the pleb spectrum.”

      Perhaps, Brian, the gentleman may be more in need of classes in comprehension than interpretation.

      Then again it might be that strange malady peculiar to we Scots – ablins Rock micht jist bi muckle conter.

    256. Smallaxe says:

      crazycat says:

      “I can smugly report ? that I had already done the survey before it was mentioned on here (I’d seen it on Twitter).”

      The crazycat that got the cream..MEEEeeeeAAw.

      crazycat,when you’re on Twitter don’t eat the wee tweets 🙂

      Peace Always

    257. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 9.16
      Thought you valued accuracy Robert?

    258. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Aye, Robert, re: Rock, you’re probably correct.


    259. Smallaxe says:

      HandandShrimp says:

      “I can’t make head nor tail of that fecking ayeplayer site”

      Its the only BBC site,that says “aye” 🙂

      Peace Always

    260. mike cassidy says:

      For those involved in the cannon fodder debate.

      I thought it was quite critical of the military as an institution. The line about the army “it’s just rich cunts, telling dumb cunts to kill poor cunts” was quite affecting.

    261. Dorothy Devine says:

      Briandoonthetoon, me too – did it a couple of days ago.

    262. Andrew Mclean says:

      To be a peacekeeper,

      The thing is I do agree a little with Rock, regarding the use of the military, or rather the abuse of the military, why half the Labour Party like bloody hands Blair weren’t taken out and shot for putting our armed forces into a war for the lies they made up is beyond me. Blairs a millionaire, when mothers and fathers wife’s and children will never meet their loved one again, and pray they died quickly, and is that not the hardest thing for any parent to bare, for their child to have been killed quickly

      However the use of the word pleb, and yes it has an historical meaning, but today it’s a term of abuse, so sorry rock you can fuck right off, call yourself that if you please but don’t insult people for what ever reason choose to serve, because I will tell you this for nothing, don’t mistake yoons waving flags for the type that would join up, they would run a mile if you suggested they do, then you would get all the excuses under the sun, I know I have been there.

      I have traveled the length of this country, and meeting yes supporters, and a dammed lot are ex services.

      I am just poor pilgrim rock, you don’t have to believe me, but on this you are bang out of order.

    263. crazycat says:

      @ Smallaxe

      Peace to you too.

      I don’t have a Twitter account – don’t trust myself not to say something I might regret – I just read other people’s on-line.

      So the tweets, wee tweets and tweety-pies are all quite safe.

    264. Thepnr says:

      I didn’t hear much of war stories from my old man who was in Malaya, nor either from any of my granddads, one who was a sergeant in the artillery and the other a merchant seaman who was unlucky enough to be on board two ships that were sunk.

      No, I got most of my stories from one of my old journeymen when I was serving my time in the shipyard in the 70’s.

      He joined up as a 17 year old in 1939 despite not having to do so as he worked in the shipyard and it was a reserved occupation, meaning deemed crucial to the war effort so you could not be conscripted.

      His first taste of war was Dunkirk 1940 with the 51st Highland Brigade as part of the 1st Battalion Blackwatch. As has been pointed out earlier, the 51st Brigade were used to fight a rearguard action while the rest of the BER were rescued from the beaches at Dunkirk and brought home.

      One week after the evacuation the 51st brigade surrendered at St Valery and he was one of 10,000 fighting Scots taken prisoner. They were then marched from France through Belgium into Germany taking weeks and from there transported in cattle wagons by train to POW camps or Stalags in Poland where he spent the next 4 years, yes 4 not 5 years.

      This was also one of the most surprising part of the stories to me, in 1944 he was told along with about another 5 dozen from his camp that he was to be taken to Sweden and handed back to the British in an exchange for German prisoners. None of them believed this, by then they had heard of other camps where Jews and Russians were kept and were really quite fearful of what was going on.

      In his case though it was true, and a few weeks later he was back in the UK unscathed.

      He spent a few days at Catterick barracks in England being medically examined and debriefed on all he knew of the camps. Then he was given 4 weeks leave back at home in Dundee.

      After that, another medical, declared fit to rejoin the regiment and was sent back to France again ready for the final fight to end the war. At least he came home OK at the end of it and was able to tell me some of his tales.

    265. Smallaxe says:

      Andrew McLean:

      I’m quite sure that a lot of people on here,like myself, would agree that when you do it you do it with “STYLE”

      Peace to you and those to whom you give your Love,Brother

    266. Cactus says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon ~

      Evening, survey done, soup eaten (or drank!) and moon-spotting.

      I’d recommend it to others.. you might learn something about your political thinking’s if you want to give it a go. It’s a one-page survey which doesn’t ask you any personal questions, other than your age group and sexual preference.

      You could even just check out the questions for interest at..

      University of Strathclyde – Survey link:

      I’m away furranother bowl.

    267. Muscleguy says:

      OT it has now been three full days since the Grauniad has updated it’s Scotland news pages. It didn’t even put Kevin McKenn’s latest Sunday rant on them.

      And they keep telling me they need my support for their ‘award winning’ journalism.

    268. Thepnr says:


      Sexual preference? Hmmm, pretty sure it only asks your sex not your preference LOL.

    269. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cactus.

      Eh um surprezzed at you!

      One doesn’t “drink” soup, neither does one “eat” soup (unless it’s a rather thick Scotch Broth); one “sups” soup; that’s the way of the world.

      But, you are young, you are learning…


    270. Cactus says:

      @Thepnr ~

      Aye-aye, nod-nod, 😉 😉

      Mischievous me!

    271. Cactus says:

      Aye, you’re right there @Brian Doonthetoon ~

      ‘Suppin’s the way to do it.

      The soup has been supped.

    272. Marcia says:


      Thanks for the poem. I have spent today visitng graves for people back home, taking a photo, laying a Scottish Cross and a small Saltire on each grave.

    273. David Mooney says:


      Newsflash John McTernan on Scotland 2016 says “there will be a Independence referendum and the SNP will lose”.

      With that numpties track record lets go for it now. We will win it by a landslide.

    274. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re the survey I wanted to put down Male non conformist but it would nae let me 🙂

    275. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thepnr interesting story , the only time I have heard of prisoner swaps was when they were deemed mad or injured. I have read a book on the history of the 51st from landing in France until the betrayal and that is what it was, there were opportunities to get a sizeable number of the 51st home but Churchill decided to sacrifice them for political expediency.

    276. Still Positive. says:

      Survey done, BDTT.

    277. ian murray says:

      Regarding Trump and taxes

      Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, records obtained by The New York Times show.

      You do not pay taxes when you have equal or larger losses to apply against taxable revenue.

    278. Thepnr says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      Yes more than interesting. I’m certain though it’s absolutely true, there may be some from Dundee reading this who know exactly who I was talking about.

      What I wrote earlier is just the background to the story and the meat of it is in the detail which you can’t go into on a forum and I wouldn’t wish too.

      Briefly though I can share this, two other surprises. In the camps the Scots formed football leagues with matches played weekly, so you had Hamilton v Dundee or Inverness v Celtic. It’s how they kept morale up.

      They also got their Red Cross parcels regularly that was what really what kept them alive. He was on work parties maintaining and extending the railways in Poland. They worked alongside Polish women mainly, though some men, he told me a Red Cross bar of chocolate was worth a lot? He also said that in general he knew of no mistreatment by their guards in the camps.

      I believe him.

    279. Dr Jim says:

      Yoons complain like mental monkey nuts over Braveheart the movie yet nobody complained when Forrest Gump got drafted in his movie or when a bunch of guys got killed saving private Ryan and he didnae want to go

      There are lots of stange things and attitudes when it comes to soldiery stuff, it’s such a sensitive subject to some and not to others depending on upbringing and personal experience

      My brother was a soldier and couldn’t have cared less about queen and country, poppies, marches or any of it, what he got out of the army was his mates and how it was like a new set of brothers to him, and when one got in trouble they all did and when one of his regiment was killed they all felt it badly

      My brother now 72 years of age is a SNP member who was a soldier

    280. Sassenach says:

      Brilliant, McTermite says independence will fail – so that means it’s guaranteed!!!

      BBC reverting to character with two Labour men giving their views without anyone with a different point of view.

      Not biased?? I laugh in their faces!!

    281. ian murray says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      14 November, 2016 at 9:32 am
      Ian Murray: “It is very easy to criticize Donald Trump

      And just as easy to whitewash him when you’re smug enough to feel he can’t do you any harm.

      So are you suggesting we should not give him a chance and just adopt the opinion of the media?
      Which is pretty much what we rail against here all the time
      America just had 8 years of a President who was a community activist they have voted for change maybe gie him a chance eh?

    282. Tom B says:

      Britain began detailed preparation for WW1 in 1906, the Belgian pretext was decided on in 1908.

      Britain broke Belgian neutrality first and occupied Belgium from 1910, in 1914 they stood down the Belgian army, abandoned the fortifications they had built and manned, left Belgium defenceless and invited Germany to occupy it. This is all well documented from government papers it’s not hidden and hundreds of books have covered it.

      Dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian empire and Ottoman Empire were explicit WW1 war aims. All the European war participant elites expressly wished to thin out their populations of uppity getting proles, by the traditional method -war, the slaughter in the west in the trenches, was planned and exactly what King, Kaiser and Tsar – all close relatives – wanted.

    283. Big Jock says:

      Regards Trump. I was willing to give him a chance. However I have just seen 2 of the people he has appointed to his cabinet. One is borderline Kkk. I think we aint seen nothing yet. USA is going for civil war by looks of things.

    284. Still Positive. says:

      My father never spoke about his war experience – except for his time in India (not Burma). He developed a love of curry which my mother was unable to recreate until the late 60s/early 70s with McCormick’s curry powder in a wee blue/silver (?) can.

      My sister-in-law’s late second husband saw National Service in Korea and he woke up regularly with nightmares but wouldn’t talk about it as he said it was too awful.

      Aye the powers-that-be do not understand what they inflict on our young men – the flowers of the nation.

    285. Still Positive. says:

      Big Jock @ 12.01

      Totally agree.

      Every appointment I see makes it worse.

    286. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – also done the survey.
      Lots of good comments on Remembering.
      Been watching youtube clips on Donald Trump. One striking comment he seems to have made frequently is that he loves the “Vets” and thinks they should be better cared for. That obviously struck a chord with the voters.

      Scarily like “The Man in the High Castle” though with his bombastic stage sets and garish home decor.

      The Buddhists say:
      I take refuge in the Buddha (enlightenment)
      I take refuge in the dharma (teachings)
      I take refuge in the sangha ( community)

      Sound advice IMO

    287. Tom B says:

      When US troops began replacing British troops in France in 1918, it was to replace man for man British troops already transferred to Egypt, consequent of the Balfour Declaration, for an assault on Turkey through Palestine. This troop and materials transfer almost cost the collapse of the whole western front. Turkey refused to come out and play, and prepared for a hard battle the seasoned core of the British army with token French forces entered Palestine without hardly a shot fired. At which point the war in Europe was swiftly brought to an end as mysteriously as it had began.

    288. mr thms says:


      It’s “Unequal Scotland” week on BBC Scotland..

      “Throughout this week, the BBC’s Reporting Scotland (Monday-Friday 18:30) and Scotland 2016 (Monday-Thursday 22;30-23:00) will be looking at inequality in Scotland.”


      Scottish Labour Party deputy leader Alex Rowley

      “What Labour must do now is set out its vision of a post-Brexit Scotland which will include home rule within a confederal United Kingdom, building for the future on the socialist ideals of equality, fairness and justice.”

      So if UK Labour has a vision to turn the UK into a confederacy, would they not need to win the GE in 2025, since winning the next one in 2020 seems very remote.

      Unless he has the backing of the Tories and the Lib-Dems?

      What if all the unionist parties share his vision?

      I recall the Queen’s Speech, there was a mention that her government would introduce a UK Bill of Rights.

      Could federalism be imposed using this means?

    289. Again I suggest that folk try to get to see ‘Joyeux Noël’.
      A European view of WWI which tries to portray the horrors of trench warfare realistically.

      Uniquely, unlike London-centric war movies, it quite heavily features Scottish involvement.

      Good luck finding free streaming sites which have English subtitles. All the ones I checked were ‘unavailable’. However if your German and French is up to it, there are several which have the film unsubtitled with French, German and English.

    290. Big Phil says:

      I’m a “pleb”….my education wasnt the greatest, but as a wee boy I, like most boys played sodyers ,see who could die the best ;at school the teacher asked everyone what they wanted to be when they were older , the usual doctor,vet,nurse then it was my turn ,”a Professional Miss”, all the class laughed, “a professional what, philip”, (the media at the time said ‘join the professionals’ The British Army.).I was a wee boy and thought it was the bees knees to be a soldier, at 17 n half i Joined the REME. Look it up ROCK, bunch a clever basterds. I did it for me, and the friends i met are friends Now and Always,some are nawbags but they remain friends for life.In the Army yer pals come first, they arent Plebs they are Brothers,every single one of them.Knock the british army all you want but they are the ones who take the shite from government and do it to help themselves and their Mates, after its all over the government forget us ,dont care. I Was a Sodyer.

    291. K1 says:

      ian murray, ye really huv tae keep up. Watch his ‘picks’ and the fact that the head of SEC (Securities and Exchanges Commission) has just ‘stepped down’ two years before the end of her term:

      ‘…clearing the way for President-elect Donald Trump to reshape the way Wall Street is regulated.

      The SEC, which polices Wall Street and the financial markets, has been a key part of the Obama administration’s effort to rein in big banks following the 2008 financial crisis and prevent future taxpayer bailouts of the industry.

      The agency has pushed for more oversight of hedge funds and other asset managers and has established rules that make it more difficult for big banks to make risky bets on the markets.’


      ‘Trump has already indicated he would usher in a period of deregulation, including dismantling 2010’s financial reform legislation, known as the Dodd-Frank Act. He appointed Paul Atkins, an industry veteran, who has called Dodd-Frank a “calamity,” to lead the agency’s transition.’

      Things are not looking good.

    292. Liz g says:

      Big Jock & still positive.
      On a brighter note.
      Huffington post…. people are donating to planned parenthood in Mike Pence’s (VP) name and that causes a thank you certificate to be sent to him.

      LAPD…..have announced they will not be changing their policy of not asking someone for their papers or about their imagination status. No matter what Trump orders.

      There is a plan to organise a… Million Woman march in Washington on Trump’s inauguration day.

      ACLU… reporting their membership up 25%.

    293. Graf Midgehunter says:


      Saw the survey when surfing on Mondy morning and filled it in straight away. Probably quite a lot of folk just did the same.

      What interests me is, when is the Rev gonna do another poll?

    294. Thepnr says:

      @Chic McGregor

      Here you go Chic, with subtitles in English. Good quality too.

    295. mealer says:

      mrthms 12.41am

      It’s entirely possible that a pretence of “federalism light” could be foisted on us by Westminster and ratified by a referendum if the polls were in their favour. The unionists are capable of seizing the agenda if they see us slipping out of their grasp.

    296. Big Phil says:

      cheers Thepnr, got a sexy wee chic there. lol.pop-ups are mental.

    297. Thepnr says:


      No my friend, never going to happen. Federalism has com and gone, no one will fall for that again. EVER in my view.

      @Graf Midgehunter

      There’s been so many hints about a poll my guess it’s already done. Good news or bad news I expect to hear soon.

    298. Thepnr says:

      Call me paranoid, but that file or link that I just put up for Chic now says: THIS FILE WAS DELETED

      Now that just serves to piss me off. Guess I have to find one that you pricks can’t DELETE.

      You are losing and it shows.

    299. Thepnr says:

      @Big Phil

      Sorry mate, definately use an Ad Blocker, depending on the browser you use lots available. Never be without one.

    300. Big Phil says:

      Thepnr, we’re all being watched ,Guaranteed.this wee site is a THREAT. The big heid yins dont like it.

    301. Thepnr says:

      OK Checked again, the link works fine. If you don’t use an adblocker you will get or 2 popups. Also on the main screen there will be a Watch Download icon, close it there is a wee X there.

      Just use an adblocker it would be easier and overall you will be happier with your experience on the internet.

    302. Graf Midgehunter says:


      “There’s been so many hints about a poll my guess it’s already done. Good news or bad news I expect to hear soon.”

      That sounds OK then.

      It seems as if it’s been very quiet on the poll front in general so I’m looking forward to some info regarding Scotland and less about the blond nutter in Amerigo..!

      “Die Ruhe vor dem Sturm”

    303. Big Phil says:

      slightly O/T
      But if everyone gets themselves a wee android box they can watch anything they want without paying a TV tax. Your film included. Its simples.

    304. manandboy says:

      Remembrance Sunday has come and gone and we are all compelled to return to the day job. As I hope we now know, the ‘day job’ entails being engaged in a naked, all out, propaganda war, waged against Scotland by the British Establishment, and led by Theresa May’s alt-right wing Tory Government. But to what end? For there can be no going back to the way we were, even 5 years ago. And, yes, we all love Christmas, and nothing should be allowed to spoil it, but Theresa May isn’t Santa Claus, and she won’t be giving Scotland ANY presents. Not now, not ever.

      Moving on, no matter what becomes of the ever present matter of Brexit, the Establishment are determined that Scotland will remain the ‘property’ of the English ruling classes. But that is not all. IndyRef14 gave Westminster a fright, a real fright, which will mean that Scotland must not be allowed to frighten the elite 1% and their political message boys again. This is a big problem for Scotland for one simple reason. Most of the population of Scotland are not paying attention. As far as they are concerned, everything will soon be all right because we are being looked after at all times by our English masters.

      Even now, Westminster is busily plotting to prevent Scotland gaining any advantage whatsoever from the 62% Scottish Brexit vote. Make no mistake, Westminster plans to leave Europe, but not without Scotland. Treachery is afoot, for that is what the English upper classes do best. But it’s also because England cannot survive without support in the form of Scotland’s limitless natural wealth.

      By declaring so emphatically for Brexit, Theresa May has shown her hand. She is absolutely banking on ‘keeping’ Scotland. Achieving that will require a generous dose of British colonial ruthlessness. That is what we must plan for. Do NOT put your hopes in democracy in the form of IndyRef2. Like Indy14, the next one will also be stolen, after which there will follow the systematic rape and pillaging of Scotland.

      Unless of course, something like the EU intervenes, or a whole bunch of No voters change their minds, but it will have to be on such a scale that it can deliver a knock-out punch to the British Establishment, with all its formidable resources.

      And, it won’t be in the form of help from the president of Turnberry.

    305. Thepnr says:

      @Big Phil

      I stopped paying the TV tax before the referendum. Have never missed watching live TV, I subscribed to Amazon Prime and Netflix for cheaper overall than the TV tax and could watch catchup if I wanted to of any channel.

      That changed a couple of months ago and I can no longer watch BBC anytime. Well Feck the BBC, there is enough crap on telly as it is.

      If you do decide to cancel your licence do it properly, don’t just not pay it else you will possibly be bothered. Do it online, they promise not to contact you the next two years. It’s been two and half years for me and they still haven’t been in touch.

      What would be the point. I don’t watch. I don’t pay. Simple.

    306. Still Positive. says:

      Graf Midgehunter @ 1.41.

      The SNP poll will be out in probably mid- December but will probably not be made public for a while after that. Until the A50 button is pressed.

      And it also depends on the progress of the referendum Bill at Holyrood.

    307. Thepnr says:

      @Still Positive

      I believe the Rev has commissioned a poll or at least planned to do so.

    308. Sandy says:

      Notice that the “Supreme Court” has legislated that the Scottish Government be liable for ALL costs regarding the Named Persons case.
      Can someone explain to me why an English court is involved in this. Scots laws are for Scottish residents, I was led to believe.
      If we need an arbritary court ruling, why not approach the likes of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Mongolia, Peru, Tahati, etc., anywhere but England for a completely unbiased verdict.

    309. Thepnr says:

      @Chic McGregor

      Well, that was a brilliant film, thanks for the heads up.

    310. Capella says:

      Good analysis of growing right wing threat from Michael Gray in The National.

      “Now the face of US power will be as ugly and oppressive as the system it sustains. No more the Prozac optimism of Obama’s tinkering reform. Racism, violence and right-wing nationalist culture are there at the top for all to see.”

    311. Macart says:


      Yeah, read that piece. Not the most inspirational start to a presidency ever, is it?

      The price of making a state great again. Or is that, the price of making some of it great again? Tab seems a bit high to me right enough. It’ll probably cost you your empathy, your tolerance, a few human rights, a few lives. You may suddenly find friends and sympathy a bit scarce on the ground t’boot. Your self respect may take a knock, a fair chunk of your achievements will be sacrificed and soiled. Oh and the social cohesion of your population may not recover for a while, if ever.

      But the ‘country’ will be great again.

      Wait now! Are we talking about America or the UK?

    312. Capella says:

      I think we’re talking about the “right” everywhere, in Europe as well as USA and UK.
      Michael Grey proposes we pay attention to the destruction that right wing policies have inflicted.
      That means:
      “stamping out elitism and corruption; delivering jobs and infrastructure programmes; building quality housing and reducing rents.”

      Who will tackle this now?

    313. Macart says:


      That’s pretty much exactly what he is asking and he’s not mincing his words.

      My own ironic/slightly rhetorical question aside from my earlier post, you can quite clearly see an alarming, not mention familiar, trend in world politics currently.

      Takes me neatly back to a post I made earlier:

      Quite a time in human history. 2016 has been a year to forget so far.

      A lot of people out there making capital of fear, hatred and difference. Doesn’t matter whether they believe it or not themselves, they use it for their own advantage. Its another political tool to some, an ideology to others. The real test for people the world over is in how they respond when faced with it.

      I wonder if this time round we’ll pass or fail?

      Mr Gray, I think, is looking for the answer to that question himself.

    314. Macart says:

      Heh. Should probably say ‘to another post I made earlier in thread’.

      Posting between ‘puters on the run is never a great plan. 🙂

    315. manandboy says:

      George Monbiot lays it on a plate.
      Everyone on the planet should read this, particularly those of a mind to do something about it here in Scotland.

    316. Macart says:


      Another good crop Nana. I see the National is picking up on the Holyrood Mag story.

    317. Nana says:


      I’m seeing that in the national, good, There’s so much stuff I’d like to see on the front page, the paper would need to be twice as big!

      @Smallaxe make mine a double, nice and strong.[Coffee that is]

    318. Another Union Dividend says:

      The Herald is a good read this morning and well worth buying on Brexit plus Scottish Passport on front page.

      I wonder why BBC / MSM didn’t describe Jo Cox’s killer as a British Nationalist and BBC even played down his “Britain First” shout as evidenced by witnesses in court.

    319. John H. says:

      Being an amateur psychologist (aren’t we all?) I used to find reading about the Nazi era in Germany interesting and fascinating, because I thought I was reading about the past. Since Trump won the election I now find it disturbing more than anything else.

    320. Brian Powell says:

      After 5 years of the LibDems being in formal coalition with the Tories, giving us Alistair Carmichael, as SofS in Scotland and Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, I shouldn’t be surprised by what the LibDems do.

      But the LibDem Conference a couple of days ago did remind me of their extraordinary failure to show any principles or connection to the voters.

      After all the years of being ultra EU they unceremoniously dumped that stance. By refusing absolutely to consider Independence as a way to remain in the EU they put themselves in a position of complete irrelevance when ‘bargaining’ on the EU.

      They claimed to want to remain in the single market in some way but, with their Conference decision, they shouted loudly, ‘If we can’t then we won’t do a single thing about it, so there.’

      Becoming so irrelevant and ridiculous takes a special kind of stupidity.

    321. Smallaxe says:

      The far right is consolidating their forces,although they may be the far right we all know that they are in actuality,far wrong. No longer shall we meekly surrender our dignity to the greedy warmongers who would have our future generations wasted in war and austerity.

      There must be no division within the yes movement.We must stand together as One People one Kingdom,the Kingdom of Scotland.This land is rich in resources,more than rich enough to sustain our fellow Scots and with enough left over to trade with or to help any other peoples who may be under the “rule” of oppressors from the far right.

      Our first task is to return the power,which is ours by right,the enemy,(for let us not be fooled,they are the enemy,to any right thinking person),have for too long used our population and our resources to further they’re own selfish and twisted agenda.

      I beseech you all,for the sake of our young our vulnerable and our downtrodden members of society to put any differences aside for the time being until we have wrested our Sovereign power from the clutches of Westminster and its parasitic criminals.We the people are the heart of Scotland, our beautiful and intrinsically valuable Kingdom Nation.

      We owe this, to all who come after us,we owe them the right to a fair, equal and inclusive land of opportunity.We owe ourselves the pride dignity and immense satisfaction of achieving this for them.

      We are Awake and must arouse those of our people who slumber in blissful ignorance.

      Peace always

    322. galamcennalath says:

      Brian Powell says:

      LibDem Conference a couple of days ago did remind me of their extraordinary failure to show any principles or connection to the voters. …. Becoming so irrelevant and ridiculous takes a special kind of stupidity.

      Totally agree. Utterly unprincipled and disgraceful.

      It sounds like their ruling circle intend to put the continuation of their Union above all else. They managed to persuade their members to accept that line.

      I held out hope that the wider LibDem members might act responsibly in Scotland’s interests and say ‘everything was on the table’.

      The LibDems are almost irrelevant in terms of numbers in Holyrood, however the media and wider public still behave as if they are important. A principled stance would have put some additional pressure on May.

    323. Smallaxe says:


      Coffee is on,as strong as you need,Thank you for your links,without your vigilance a lot of things,important things would slip past us.You have our gratitude but deserve so much more.

      Peace and Love to You


    324. Stu Mac says:

      @Tom B

      I’d like to see sources for your claims.

    325. Lenny Hartley says:

      Graf Midgehunter Panelbase did a politics poll yesterday , don’t know the questions coz as has become usual for political Panelbase polls I was screened out.

    326. Still Positive. says:

      Macart @ 10.31.

      That would figure. Was at my SNP branch meeting last night and unusually MSP was missing. His spokesman said all his time was taken up with Brexit – on committees and meeting local businesses who want to know the impact on them.

    327. Fred says:

      Anent, McKenna’s new-found respect for Trump, just noticed that his supporters T-shirts bore the legend, “Rope, tree, journalist! some assembly required!” Just sayin.

    328. Robert Peffers says:

      Thepnr says: 15 November, 2016 at 1:54 am:
      @Big Phil

      “If you do decide to cancel your licence do it properly”.

      Why? The BBC has no statutory powers to make you tell them anything and informing them that you do not watch live TV has no effect – they will start bothering you again and are basically accusing you of illegal acts. Those accusations without any evidence that you are guilty is, in itself illegal.

      So the BBC’s paid agents, they are really just debt collectors and have no legal authority, will start again to harass and threaten you with legal action and go on harassing you with semi-pseudo-pretend legal jargon for years.

      That is known as coercion under Scots law and the English law equivalent is the evil crime of Blackmail. These people who refer to their operatives as, “Officers”, implying they are law officers, have no connection with any law enforcement force. They just work out of an office. As does anyone else who works from an office like an insurance agent for example. They have no legal powers.

      Furthermore, Scottish law guards people’s personal privacy but there are no English style trespass laws in Scotland. If they call upon you they are breaking the law if they make any attempt to, “Investigate”. Their legal rights are the same as any other cold-caller. That is, unless you have a notice that states you want no cold-callers, they can enter your property in order to contact the occupier.
      To do so they must go to the main entrance by the marked path and must leave if requested to do so.

      The clue to their lack of authority is in the threatening letters they will pester you with. These are all addressed to, “The Occupier”, and do not bear the name of anyone because they do not know who lives at that address.

      They have no idea who they are dealing with only that there is an address without a TV licence. Yet they will arrive mob-handed in order to pose the greatest perceived threat to, “The Occupant”, yet their legal right is only to enter the property to contact someone. Just telling them to leave ends their legal rights.

      They cannot get a search warrant either, unless they can state a name of a person and provide some evidence that person is committing illegal acts and they have no such evidence unless the person gives it to them or they carry out illegal investigations.

      Here, though, is the upsides of allowing them to pester you. You can gather evidence that they are illegally stalking you via the postal system. Every letter they send out cost them, and the BBC, money and the BBC pays their agents so that all helps to cut the BBC’s income from Scotland.

      Then, if they do eventually turn up to visit you they go away empty handed unless you are daft enough to give them the evidence they seek.

      Play the numpties at their own game and throw back at them the Scottish laws that make them the ones carrying out illegal actions including Stalking and Coercion and attempting to gain money by threats.

      I’m currently waiting a visit that they have been increasingly threatening to make for several years now. It may still be a long wait. The laugh is that I’m an octogenarian and could have a free licence just for the asking but I’m not about to be coerced, (Blackmailed), into obtaining even a free one by illegal threats of legal actions and illegal stalking via the postal system.

    329. Chic McGregor says:

      “Well, that was a brilliant film, thanks for the heads up.”

      Glad you enjoyed it, but the link doesn’t work now ‘file deleted’??

    330. Capella says:

      @ manandboy
      The George Monbiot article archived. Good read as Monbiot always is.

    331. Lochside says:

      Scot Finlayson 3.34 14/11:

      You mentioned the ‘Bull Run’ was actually the ‘Bull Ring’, a base camp at Etaples where front line troops were ‘rested’ before going back up the line to the Front. It was notorious as a hell hole run by Redcap Military police who enforced rigorous discipline on exhausted and often traumatised men.

      In 1917, an event took place that was hushed up for decades. A Gordon Highlander refused to salute a redcap and was shot dead, The Gordons and Anzacs in the camp went on the rampage. Anecdotally MPs were killed and some squaddies. Officially Wm Wood, the Gordon, was the only death. Afterwards the mutiny was suppressed by English troops and the ‘ringleaders’ punished by being sent back to the front.

      My Granda told me about it, as he was a Gordon. He told me that after this the Gordons would execute any Redcaps found in the front line during or after an attack. He had seen comrades killed by these individuals, who were shellshocked or wounded and still lying in the front line trench after the rest had charged over the top. He mentioned him and others pulling a young lad out of an entombed dugout buried by a blast, and pushing him over the top with his comrades to escape being shot by the redcaps.Pro Patria indeed.

    332. Smallaxe says:


      My Grandfather was taken to the 7th Canadian General Hospital at Etaples France,on the 23rd March 1918,after being shot for the second time.He was a Gordon Highlander,he was my hero.

      A Gordon for me!

      Peace Always

    333. Chic McGregor says:

      Thanks for the link.

      Good article but would comment.

      Thatcher’s conversion to Austrian school, Hayek and others, happened long before 1960, in the 40s when she was still at uni.

      The other side of the neoliberal coin, Chicago school, Friedman et al, although coming from a ‘fundamentally different philosophical view’ arrives at much the same recommendations.

      It is my belief, that if you throw back the curtains on both you arrive upon a much more sinister common basis for both than the pursuit of freedom.

      IMO the word ‘view’ above should be substituted with the word ‘justification’.

      Though never stated, the only ultimate uniting ‘rationale’ for both winner-takes-all elite creating views is that humanity has not evolved enough yet.

      As things stand, mathematically, it is impossible for the human race to physiologically evolve further without a program of mass extinction or a radical breeding program using eugenics or both.

      If on the other hand, you believe humanity has evolved enough physiologically, then you believe that human civilization can advance sufficiently by means of its collective social, educational and creative activities. Note a logical outcome of this belief is that as many of the population should reach their full potential as possible to maximise the rate of civilisation advance.

      The antithesis of the unspoken belief of the neos.
      Of course neoliberalism is falling apart in the face of reality.
      For example Hayek’s prophecy of impending serfdom if the old social democratic view held has resulted in neo-feudalism with a ruling elite and the rest as debt-slaves. And they may have their ruling elite, but where are the promised benefits to civilisation?

      And of course, most normal human beings, would look at the characteristics of this ruling elite, dishonesty, greed, power-lust, lack of empathy, narcissism and judge that this was not the cream of society rising to the top but rather a class which in evolutionary terms they would consider recidivist.

      That is, the opposite to the justifying intent.

    334. Glamaig says:

      @Lochside 12:08 pm

      thanks for mentioning that. I had no idea. What an educational site this is!

      A paper here written on the subject in 1975:

    335. Fred says:

      Anent Scotland’s sovereignty issue & the plebs who had no say or opinion on the matter, as they were “plebs!

      Dr Mark Jardine’s article here on the fate of some of those Covenanters who rejected the sovereignty of the monarch & went to the scaffold for their beliefs,

    336. @Lochside

      The Bullring,

      Thanks for that.

      The book and Alan Bleasdale`s TV series `The Monocled Mutineer` covers the sadistic British retraining and mutiny at Etaples,

      also this,

    337. Thepnr says:

      @Chic McGregor

      The link for the film seems to be working again. Mind use an ad blocker if you want to avoid unwanted pop ups.

    338. Rock says:

      Andrew Mclean,

      “However the use of the word pleb, and yes it has an historical meaning, but today it’s a term of abuse”.

      “Plebs” is what the sneering ruling elite regard the likes of you and me. Unless you are part of that elite.

      The armed forces of Scotland are not there to protect Scotland.

      They are there to protect the elite loyal to Westminster and the continued colonisation of Scotland.

      Who were the armed forces protecting when Scots rioted against the Treaty of Union?

    339. Fred says:

      Guys, thanks for the stuff on the Etaples Mutiny, needs a wider audience.

    340. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lochside (12.08) –

      Just read your comment there.

      That’s just horrendous.

      Have never heard of these ‘Redcaps’ before.

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