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Sauces for the geese

Posted on June 23, 2018 by

Willie Rennie in the Daily Record today:

And to be absolutely fair to the Scottish Lib Dem leader, he’s always been consistent in his beliefs, such as the view that elected members should be given a second chance when they’ve committed a minor misdemeanour, and NOT have to (for example) stand down and face re-election.

Oh, wait, no. It’s the other thing, isn’t it? Sorry, our mistake.

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    1. 23 06 18 12:56

      Sauces for the geese | speymouth

    158 to “Sauces for the geese”

    1. defo says:

      Foie gras ?

    2. frogesque says:

      Liar Carmichael anyone?

    3. gus1940 says:

      Given that the alleged victim’s id has been protected could we not be given details of the contents of the e-mails and other alleged comments so that we the public are put in a position to judge just how bad a character he may be?

      If he had committed a criminal offence surely we would be given details of just what the offence was.

    4. Croompenstein says:

      Sleaze? FFS i thought sleaze was the likes of old Sewel dressed in his bra snorting coke off a hookers nether regions…

      But as a liberal Willie would recommend people get a second chance, as long as they are a yoon..

    5. Welsh Sion says:

      Here’s the story wot I wrote at the time of “Frenchgate”. Enjoy!

      56. (of 60.)

      Carmichael’s the Butcher’s

      Carmichael’s was a large butcher’s shop, located at the far end of Orkney Street. It was very well known in town, but few people had actually seen the owner, known locally as ‘Big Al,’ if you’ll excuse the pun, ‘in the flesh.’

      One day, a young lady, who was up on her holiday in the area from down south came into the butcher’s shop. Her name was Tori Graff and she was looking for something to cook to go alongside her leek bake. She was holding a dinner party that very night and she wanted to impress her friends.

      “How about some mince?” suggested the friendly shop assistant. “I find that leaks and mince complement each other very nicely. At Carmichael’s we also serve the best tripe.”

      Tori Graff was so impressed by the good-looking mince under the counter that she bought some there and then and took it home to cook.

      But alas and woe! Having cooked it in the appropriate manner, (the leek bake however was not done so well and some would later whisper it was only half-baked), Tori Graff and her guests began to feel decidedly unwell. Could there be something the matter with Carmichael’s mince?

      The nearest Trading Standards Office was in the nearby town of Essennpee, and one of its officers was quickly called in. He promptly paid a visit to Carmichael’s butcher’s shop. The same assistant who had served Tori Graff the previous day was behind the counter – but he did not satisfy the man from Trading Standards: he wanted to see the Manager, ‘Big Al’ Carmichael himself.

      After a long wait, ‘Big Al’ Carmichael shambled into the shop from the back. His nickname was well-earned: he was quite a large man, not out of place as a doorman at a nightclub, perhaps. Carmichael was wearing his standard butcher’s apron and straw hat. He stared indignantly at the man from Essennpee Trading Standards.

      “What’s this all about, then?” he asked gruffly.

      “We suspect that there is some issue with your mince,” replied the Trading Standards Officer grimly.

      “Poppycock!” exclaimed Carmichael. “I only sell the best quality mince in my shop. My meat is the best in town – you ask Mrs Cameron in Number 10. How dare you slander me like this!”

      “Be that as it may,” rejoined the Trading Standards Officer evenly. “I will still need to take a sample of your mince to study it in the lab. A rather virulent strain of Libus Demus Smearus is currently doing the rounds and I’d like to do my duty to ensure – as you claim – that your meat products are not affected.”

      ‘Big Al’ Carmichael harrumphed and swore blind that his mince was not contaminated. However, he could not very easily stop the Trading Standards Officer from Essennpee from upholding the law, so with a shrug of his shoulders, a deep groan and a defiant statement that he would be vindicated, ‘Big Al’ Carmichael shambled back to his office.


      Essennpee Trading Standards were meticulous in their analysis of ‘Big Al’ Carmichael’s mince. All this cost a lot of money and a lot of time and effort was also expended, but when one considers that the safety and well-being of the town and possible breaches of the Food Act that were involved, Trading Standards did a thoroughly professional job.

      The results from the laboratory eventually came through. As Essennpee Trading Standards had initially thought, there was a strong strain of the bacteria Libus Demus Smearus in ‘Big Al’ Carmichael’s mince.

      Upon hearing the result, the Trading Standards Officer acted promptly, and immediately returned to Carmichael’s butcher’s shop.

      Again, there was a lengthy delay before the man himself appeared, clad as usual in his butcher’s apron and straw hat.

      “I have to inform you that you have been found selling food which is unfit for human consumption,” announced the Trading Standards Officer from Essennpee gravely. “To whit, your mince has been proven to contain a most unpleasant strain of Libus Demus Smearus,” he went on. “This has been demonstrated to be the cause of the ill-effects in everyone who has swallowed your mince.”

      ‘Big Al’ Carmichael was silent for a little while.

      Then he blurted out,

      “It wasnae me! It was my shop assistant … It was Mundell! He made me do it!”

      “Be that as it may,” replied the Trading Standards Officer. “This is a strict liability offence under the Food Act.” He paused for his words to sink in. “I will be obliged to make a report that Carmichael’s the Butcher’s should be closed forthwith and that you will never sell any meat product ever again in the future.”

      “B-b-b-b-ut you can’t do that!” stuttered ‘Big Al’ Carmichael. “Think of my livelihood. My good name here on Orkney Street.” He paused. “I am NOT going to submit to your blackmailing innuendo, sir!” ‘Big Al’ was shouting.

      “We shall see what Mr Justice Scott and Mrs Justice Shetland have to say when we take you to court, Mr Carmichael,” replied the Essennpee Trading Standards Officer with a smile as he walked out of the shop, into the sunshine.

      Will ‘Big Al’ Carmichael now face the chop?

      Watch this space …

      Parables for the New Politics

    6. Alastair says:

      We must never forget what Carmicheal did.
      It was a premedidtated atempt, from a position of Power, he was Secretary of State for Scotland at the time, to destroy Nicol Sturgeon’s political career and reputation. It was calculated, viscious and lowest of low dirty catalogue of lies from a man with no moral compass.
      It does not sit well with me when SMP PM in Westminster call him their Honerable Friend. He should still be persona non grada to the SNP MP’s and named and shamed at every opportunity.

    7. Shinty says:

      Let’s not forget Mundell would have had his sticky wee fingers all over it too.

    8. Gullane No4 says:

      Willie Rennie…… least he is always consistent with his double standards.

      You have to give him credit for that.

    9. Sinky says:

      O/T Further to twitter comments on UK Gov’d expensive GREAT British propaganda and union flag festival at Highland Show, I have tried several Post Offices to purchase Scottish Saltire second class stamps that used to be freely available.

      Have they been discontinued?

      I understand the SNP are seeking resolutions for their annual conference and perhaps branches should get some in about supporting Scotland the Branch and Scottish second class stamps.

      We need to take a stand against the UK establishment’s attempt to make symbols of Scotland’s identity invisible.

    10. galamcennalath says:

      The Seven Deadly BritNat Sins …


      … several ticked here!

    11. Lollysmum says:

      AUOB Bannockburn about to start. Watch it on Independence Live

    12. Clapper57 says:

      I actually remember Willie Rennie making this statement re Carmichael and at the time knew 100% that if some ‘scandal’ were to be linked in any way with the SNP that Willie would revert to zero tolerance.

      In Willie’s head what Carmichael did was acceptable and understandable as it was done for political reasons….however Willie did NOT, at the time, emphasise that this was main reason for a second chance to be given. No, Willie Rennie presented the belief that to err is human and therefore if a person is repentant then they should be given a second chance.

      In McDonald’s case Willie has a no surrender attitude and to be honest it is blatantly hypocritical and is clearly an opportunity for him to once again try to take advantage politically. If Willie feels that the nature of MacDonald’s lapse of judgement was unforgivable then I will research his opinion as to fellow Lib Dems Jeremy Thorpe and Cyril Smith and should find his vocal condemnation well publicised online.

      Willie, it seems, is only ‘liberal’ with fellow Liberal Democrats and is intolerant to all others especially the political party leader of the SNP ,Nicola Sturgeon, who was targeted by that other Liberal Democrat Carmichael, a proven liar, whose despicable underhand and calculating actions were defended by….. Willie Rennie.

      Tis a do as I say, not as I and others in my party do….frankly time you got off your high moral horse Willie Rennie and realised you lost the moral high ground when your party formed a coalition with the Tories in government , reneged on tuition fees, where publicly YOU and others in your party sought to justify and support a proven liar and where you have chosen publicly NOT to support the most logical way, via independence ,for your own country to escape the madness of not only Brexit but a dysfunctional (non) union. Really should be EXIT (as in England Exit) however I see both Brexit and Exit are really same thing are they not.

      ps. Stick your fake outrage together with your fake second Brexit vote ( tactically engineered by your party to sweep up disenchanted remain voters because politically how else can you hope to gain votes and win seats) where the sun don’t shine.

      pps. I think we are well beyond the stage of considering any intelligent engagement when presented with the ‘Willie Rennie says’ …..that is a cue to switch off….HOWEVER…it is certainly NOT a opportunity to be missed in highlighting his, and his party’s, double standards and political posturing of which he and they are THE supreme culprits….and they NEVER ever miss the opportunity to try, and yet fail miserably, to capitalize politically especially against the SNP……Envy, Anger and Covetousness Mr Rennie, are three of the seven deadly sins apparently ….I think you, Mr Rennie, need to undergo some contrition or perhaps ………you are just greatly in need of a MORAL compass.

    13. louis.b.argyll says:

      Willie (The Fud) Rennie, to use his proper title.

      Ignore the man.

    14. Ottomanboi says:

      Under the British system members of parliament are not deputies, or representatives or delegates.They are their own ‘man’. Once elected they can suit themselves. They can change party, go independent, never contribute to a debate, never visit their constituency after elected, in fact just take the money. The system was essentially designed for landed gentlemen of leisure.
      I suspect the Edinburgh parliament is in spirit little different from Westminster on that particular score.
      We need electorate and parliament accountable deputies who can be disciplined or ‘impeached’, irrespective of party allegiance.
      Accountability sits awkwardly with the systemic ‘fudging’ and ’blurring’ and mutual back scratching that infects the secretive places of Unionist ‘public’ culture.

    15. Ken500 says:

      Mark MacDonsld has done more for families in the NE and Scotland than any other politician. Raising awareness about autism and additional needs etc. Even got provisions made through Parliament. People on the spectrum should get all the help that they need. Throughout society and even in Parliament. Their daily struggles are exceptional and should be given empathy. Epecially by mild misdeanout or other defiant from the norm.

      Society should be given information on diversity. Not be attack with ignorant abuse. Totally illegal. The gutter Press are a disgrace. Shagging people and having affairs all over the place but taking the moral ground like total hypocrites. Dirty bastards. DR. Hacking and bribing public officials.

      Mark McDonald is a family man of quiet manner and demeanour. He is not in any way shape or form a sexual predator. He made a mistake of being too familiar in an inappropriate way with constituents and work colleagues, which would have given mild offence. Some people consider to be offended, to be offended to be offensive. An apology was issued and genuine realisation of sometimes inappropriate signals of the social norm. Diversity.

      Millions of inappropriate text messages e-mail are sent every day . Just unbelievable. Who is the one being bully here? The accusations getting full anonymity. They could have been for any undisclosed reason of issue of interpretation. Inappropriate mixed messages are sent every day. Stop the witchhunt by some grievance political correctness gone awol. An apology has been given with more accepted awareness of change. Get over it. Stop tryimg to make self seeking publicity for political gain. Enough is enough.

      Apart from any other reason. Young might try to get resurrected. Re elected. Some psycho bastards of self interest with no sense of social awareness and will never change. Getting any genuine criticise there are threats of police action. £1.2Billion of debt. People are being sanction and dying by these cretins. That is a real avoidable crime of political bullying and self interest. Put the homeless in prison. Insulting projection. No sympathy no empathy. Totally no contrition.

    16. Alastair says:

      Rennie is a total irrelevence in Scottish politics.
      So light weight he is a puff ball.

    17. Effijy says:

      Yes Wee Willie is a forgiven when it comes to any form
      Of slimy form of Lib Dem member.
      Liar Carmichael slanders our First Minister and wastes £1,000,000
      Of public funds on an equity.

      We have Lord Reiner the gripping sex pest who was reported by his
      Own party members, but due to another large Party donation, it’s alright
      To continue.

      Then we have their Cyril Smith the long term child abuser that they covered up for over
      Many decades.

      As you may have seen on TV recently we saw how their leader Jeremy Thorpe has his homosexuality covered up for him and then the attempted murder of his gay lover all blissfully

      But of course a couple of inappropriate text messages from anyone who ever had any kind
      Of former relationship with SNP should be executed at dawn.

      Willie you are a wee sweetie wife who has never had a good idea
      In their lifetime. You are a constant moaner who has no alternative
      Plans to put forward.
      Another House Slave slobbering after scraps at his Westminster master’s table.

      Good people of Fife, what the hell are you using to think voting for this two faced creep?

    18. galamcennalath says:

      “Fidelma Cook: Brexit means England will stand alone, Ireland will be united and Scotland will be a nation again “

      Indeed! Things are shifting fast.

    19. starlaw says:

      Why give wullie Rennie the oxygen of publicity here.

    20. Calum McKay says:

      SNP politicians are to be judged differently from unionist politicians.

      Scottish Government policies are to be judged differently from british government policies.

      Shona Robison should resign for managing the Scottish NHS better than the English NHS is managed.

      Jeremy Hunt should not resign for Gosport, Bristol, Mid Staffs or Shipman scandals.

      Scottish policing is in crisis because police management have not been 100 perfect whilst lowering crime to a 43 year low.

      Policing in England has had so many scandals whilst knife crime is out of control in London and police numbers falling.

      Mark McDonald is a lightning conductor for unionist angst, if he should resign his post then so should Damian Green who was on bbc question time this week. A week when Lord Sewell filmed taking cocaine with prostitutes is treated as a respected politician and to be listened to on Scotland’s current .

      Willie Rennie is the king of double standards, he wants a second referendum on the EU whilst calling a second referendum on independence as not needed and divisive.

      Rennie is made a fool of each and every week in Parliament by his own words, if it had not been for Dugdale telling labour voters to vote for any party that could defeat the SNP, he would not be in post.

    21. Artyhetty says:


      Surely the ‘publicity’ is what is printed in the state run, right wing, lying, conniving, anti SNP at any opportunity, Britnat media.

      It’s important to see what they are doing, and saying and filling pepoles’ minds with, because there are still a lot of people who believe the printed s**t.

      Just look at the lying sensationalist headlines demonisiing Scotland’s democratically elected government and MPs. It’s an utter disgrace, hell they even hounded some SNP MPs out and for what?!.

      S**t sticks as they say and it’s bloody well true, that’s why they do it, including the BBC piping lies into peoples’ living rooms day in day out. I can hear it on my neighbours tv if I step outside it’s so loud. yesterday I heard Nicola Sturgeon’s voice, commenting on some article, literally, for what, 10/20 seconds, then some guy, you could tell, slating the SNP, who was given at least a minute if not more.

      Evesdropping is eye opening at times!

      No, call out these little twirps, don’t ignore them, they are given far too high a profile, and of course are way out of the SNP’s league, but if we ignore their nasty lies they get away with demonising and distracting from real news, even more.

    22. Jack Murphy says:

      galamcennalath at 2:52pm quoted part of an article by Fidelma Cook,formerly of the BBC and now with the Herald.

      Thankyou for that, and as it’s a slow day on Wings over Scotland I’ll indulge…. 🙂

      Some other quotations from same article:
      “….During the first devolution debate I reported for the BBC from the Palace of Westminster. That is a tale to be told for another day, but let me say I was shocked and often disgusted by all I witnessed there.

      When, with instinctive journalistic verve I wanted to report certain facts, I was warned off in no uncertain terms. Told that was how things were.

      And told that I couldn’t expect airtime and not to be so naïve about life in the House.

      A touch enthralled about being in the centre of power I acquiesced and convinced myself that my nightly Reporting Scotland reports were honest at least. And they were.
      I closed my eyes to the rest……..”

      A recommended read for everyone who live in Scotland and beyond. 🙂

    23. Referendum1707 says:

      What’s going on at Bannockburn? The only thing of real interest today and can’t find a peep about it anywhere, even on here of all places. Why the hush hush?

    24. Ken500 says:

      Go on the last thread. There is a link.Independence live.

    25. Clapper57 says:

      Artyhetty says @ 3.38pm

      Yep totally agree you are spot on…people who get their news from MSM are drip fed p*sh….alternate media exposes the p*sh.

      Don’t let the MSM away with promoting propaganda on behalf of hypocritical chancers like Rennie & co.

      Name and shame.

      Remember Nick Robinson’s lie about Alex Salmond NOT answering a question re RBS relocating if Yes won….well if that had NOT been challenged and exposed it would have been repeated time and time again by unionists and reported by MSM .

      Shame that journalism via MSM now relies so much on opinions and real news is relegated to secondary position….thankfully we have sites such as WOS which prefers to present the facts for individuals to ascertain what the truth of a story actually is……. and not some unionist mouthpiece spouting SNPBAD endlessly and whose sole intention is to suppress those of us who seek independence and indeed the very political party that may just succeed in delivering it .

    26. Stuart McTavish says:

      When he does get the sack, worse things could happen than the Rev Stu and/or Craig Murray duking it out on an integrity ticket with whoever the established parties put forward – his 2016 majority could virtually be split 3 ways and still be enough to beat a divided unionist vote 🙂

    27. HandandShrimp says:

      The Lib Dems are an integrity free zone. They are not a party I would look to for leadership on anything.

      I see that police estimates are for 15,000 at the Bannockburn march. excellent turnout. I was at an SNP stall this morning which was very productive. We were just aiming for a colourful presence in the Main Street and we had 14 requests for membership application forms. The momentum continues and we had virtually nothing with regards negativity. This is all good 🙂 (I should probably have put sun screen on though)

    28. Confused says:

      LibDem hypocrisy – check
      Willie Rennie is a fud – check
      And all this is provable from documentary evidence in the MSM – check

      “stop me oh ho ho stop me … stop me if you think that you’ve heard this one before ” – as the old song says

      This is why I admire the Rev for the job he does – it’s repetitive and boring, but someone – thank God – takes the time to do it.

      This SNP guy who’s probably done nothing very much – I mean, if it was bad and damning, they would print it … so it’s probably bollocks. Anyway, it stops anyone talking about westminster paedo stuff …

      Came across this – (O/T but everyone else has dealt with the original story)

      – it’s from zerohedge, out of Foreign Affairs, i.e. the neocon house journal – it’s about how Erdogan is gonna rig the election and interestingly, it has a list of all the ways “the fix” has been put in – print out and stick on your wall for next time …

      – the bad guys are only giving us their playbook for “how to rig” (- but only applies to erdogan who is a bad guy since he’s buying S-400 missiles … we might not let him buy the F-35 … I am sure he is “gutted”)

      Notably – points 1-5 are already totally covered by the UK authorities (3 is irrelevant). Whatever do these neocon policy wonks mean by “last minute shenanigans”?

      I wonder what the Turkish for “late surge from the silent majority” is?

      Just remember the English principle of “playing off a straight bat” was only for gentlemen of the SAME class … the lower orders, “wogs” and fuzzies-wuzzies were to be given short shrift.

      Hope the Bannockburn March was been fun.

    29. Confused says:

      – shit missed a bit, which makes the zerohedge a lot more relevant to todays march

      – Erdogans opposition has been drawing HUGE crowds to MASS RALLIES … but the smart money is on them still-losing.

    30. Dorothy Devine says:

      Just back from Bannockburn and FAILED to see the march as I had to leave at 3p.m – they were taken through all sorts of wee roads and took ages so I missed the arrival of the main phalanx.

      Loads of folk were at Bannockburn waiting for them to arrive .The stalwart of the Wings stall Ronnie complete with refreshments , Mr and Mrs Smallaxe ( a pleasure to meet Smallaxe’s better half!) Briandoonthetoon and others with whom I had conversations whose names escaped me!

      I saw police people on pushbikes , police people on foot , police people in cars and vans and helicopters – in fact I saw loads of police people which contrasted heavily with the quiet police presence on the Glasgow march. Well done the Glasgow police!

    31. Robert Louis says:

      Polis say (this is from the horse’s mouth (so to speak)) over 15k at Bannockburn march. A great turnout.

      Only could Watch the march arrive today, but it was running quite late – something to do with both route changes and numbers being so high.

      I swear Robert the Bruce on his horse had a wee grin, as he was swamped with a sea of saltires.

      Good to see the new depute leader of the SNP Keith Brown right at the front of the march. A very good sign.

      Saltires everywhere in Stirling today – aside from one poor yoon who I think was holding a union jack at the wrong entrance to the park (the poor soul). Somebody should have told him.

      Perfect weather. Saltire flying weather.

    32. Andy-B says:

      The FM, summed up Rennie at a FMQ session, when she called him a attention seeker.

      He’s an obnoxious man with little to offer in politics, except tasteless photo shoots which is the only thing he excels at.

    33. Guybrush Threepwood says:

      I am a convert to independence and have a question which is unrelated to this particular article.

      Is Westminster sovereign?

      I was under the impression that sovereignty of Parliament dated back to the old English Parliament which was extinguished when the UK Parliament was created.

      Surely in order for Westminster to be sovereign then there must have been an act passed which transferred sovereignty from the old English Parliament to the newly created UK Parliament – yet it appears no such act exists.

      I was also under the impression that in Scotland, it is the people who are sovereign. Can someone clarify this for me?

    34. Cubby says:

      Got my vile cybernat mug today at the wings stall. Yippee.

    35. Shinty says:

      Maybe they were tipped off to a proposed counter demo – I seem to remember someone mentioning that a few days ago.

      Well done to all those who participated so sorry I could not be part of it. High hopes dashed with a minor accident at home.

    36. Meg merrilees says:

      Now the proud possessor of a ‘Vile Cybernat Badge” from the Wings stall at Bannockburn today, plus, I’ve identified myself to Ronnie and Smallaxe so the next time anyone tries to say that I don’t exist they can jump.

      15K turnout and a lovely day. The route made things grind to a halt a few times tho.

      Well done the organisers for keeping it all running as smoothly as poss. given the route.

    37. galamcennalath says:

      Today’s other march, the London one, calling for a vote in the final Brexit deal.

      I just don’t get this. There will be two deals, assuming the Tories get their act together. One, the Divorce Treaty, then secondly waaay off in the future a Trade Deal.

      So ‘final’ must mean Trade Deal, right?

      I suspect not. I think they want a vote on the Divorce Treaty and fantasise about rejecting it and therefore stopping Brexit altogether. The Brexiteers, of all shades, have their goal in sight and no way will they allow an EURef2 with a Remain option.

      The terms of the Divorce Treaty are dictated by Article 50, the EU, and UK’s obligations. It’s content is already known, more or less. If TMay signs on we move to years of transition.

      At least we in Scotland, with the main March of the day in Stirling, have a clear and obtainable objective!

    38. Famous15 says:

      The UK Government with breathtaking arrogance have set up a wee daft stall at the Highland Show.

      Stall mixes mine detection with “ British food and drink.”

      Basic marketing 101: do not confuse rhe message so “Scotland the brand” can bugger off.

      It is not paranoia if they are really out to get you.Thanks Gove and puppet Mundell.

    39. Colin Alexander says:

      He did stand down in a way when the GE was held- and got re-elected.

      I don’t know why people voted for him. Is he one of those VERY rare type of MP that actually bothers to deal with constituent’s problems instead of ignoring them or fobbing them off once elected.

      Personally, I think if were waiting to vote for a politician of ANY party that always tells the truth, I would never vote.

      But, Mr Carmichael’s lies were of a more serious level than most.

    40. Shinty says:

      Farmers in Scotland have always voted (small ‘c’) Conservatives – no idea why they’re still supporting this lot though.

      Any news on Farming for Yes? Haven’t seen anything of them since 2014.

    41. stewartb says:

      UK TV news this evening (BBC 1 and C4) giving lots of coverage of the ‘People’s’ Vote’ march in London today. And so they should! Estimated attendance is 100,000.

      Scotland’s population is (say) 8.5% of the UK’s: 8.5% of 100,000 is 8,500. What was the size of today’s Stirling march? (Note location is Stirling not Glasgow or Edinburgh!) The best estimate seems to be c.15,000.

      What coverage did this march of UK citizens wanting a second IndyRef warrant on the UK TV news? None. Can’t have the general population worry about discontent in the colony?

    42. heraldnomore says:

      Sinky, saltire 2nd class stamps are still available, just murder to track down.

      My local PO hasn’t been able to get any for a year or so, and fears she may have to sell the stock of English ones first.

      However, you can order them direct from RM website, though they’ll charge you for delivery (which isn’t a huge issue when I’m buying them by the 100)

    43. heraldnomore says:

      Dorothy, the Bannockburn bobby’s were first class today, and enjoyed the event as much as the rest of us.

    44. Clapper57 says:

      Willie Rennie is just another unionist politician conning Scots into believing UKOK is a family of nations….while ignoring the fact that Scotland is perceived and treated as the black sheep by the self appointed head of the family.

    45. Dorothy Devine says:

      Heraldnomore , delighted to hear that there just seemed so many as I was leaving and the march hadn’t made it to the park at that point.

      So ,on your recommendation I’ll say ‘Well done the Stirling Police” as well!

    46. Ken500 says:

      They might have coverage in the Indy March on RT. Get more coverage on other channels. Foreign as well. Euronews or Al Jeeza, French TV. On line. People will post views on line. Soon.

    47. galamcennalath says:

      Shinty says:

      Farmers in Scotland have always voted (small ‘c’) Conservatives – no idea why they’re still supporting this lot though.

      I would have thought, with Brexit, Scottish farmers might be prime fodder for conversion to YES.

      An article….

      I would have thought featured Jim McLaren, chairman of Quality Meat Scotland (and Perthshire farmer), would have been a Tory supporter. However, the threat from London Tories to Scottish farming is clear and present. If an iScotland were to offer a brighter future for this industry, which it should, then I see good reason why farmers might switch their support.

    48. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dorothy, we were asking some bobbies their estimate of numbers, the answer was “think we have about 15k but folk are still arriving”
      Met a few wingers today but didnt even get the the stall so do all that i missed, hope to see you next time and its about we had another glasgow night out?

    49. Dramfineday says:

      Just back from the March. Great vibes, despite the route, felt a tad sorry for people who lived near the route end where crowd compression threatened potential damage to their vehicles. Top trolling award goes to the family who decked their front door with a union flag, and their son with a red top (It appeared to read) “conservative” but since I only glanced, couldn’t be sure. It did trigger cries of tories out from some folks although most ignored it or sang “Cherrio, etc”. In second place comes the lady in the union flag beach dress, standing by her car. She looked totally stressed and only a fraction of the March had then passed her at that point. Hope she’s okay.

      Meantime a message to our Donna B, a wee girl, standing watching with her parents is the proud recipient of one of your gliterry “Aye” badges you sold me in Edinburgh. It’ll need replacing.

      Finally best regards to Lindsay and Sheena from “Yes Pentlands”, Daisy Walker (delighted to meet you) Ronnie, Paula, Rogue coder and the other folk manning the Wings stand. A brilliant and encouraging day.

    50. Dorothy Devine says:

      Lenny and a’body else , I am looking forward to the photos.

    51. cirsium says:

      @stewartb, 6.50

      Can’t have the general population worry about discontent in the colony?

      Yes that but also, can’t have the colony’s population noticing that there are people taking action.

      On the walk back from the march, I was standing waiting for the traffic lights to change. A couple stopped behind me to cross the road. They had clearly been shopping. Noticing the Saltires and the Catalan flags, one was asking if there had been a demonstration and the other replied that it was something to do with Bannockburn.

    52. galamcennalath says:

      cirsium says:

      …. can’t have the colony’s population noticing that there are people taking action

      Indeed. Propaganda by omission has always been the BritNat way. Mushrooms … kept in the dark.

      Now it has become the last ditch defence of the UK state In Scotland. It still works among folks who rely on the msm for their news. They don’t even know important things are happening around them!

      However, every day that group becomes smaller. Word of mouth, or exploring online with an inquiring state of mind, the bigger picture hits them one by one,

      Once eyes are opened, what they seen can’t be unseen.

    53. Arbroath1320 says:

      Marchers (by the 10’s of 1,000’s) CHECK

      Welcomers, greeters and applauders (by the 1,000’s) CHECK

      Statue (of the AWESOME variety) CHECK

      Weather ( of the Sun shines on the righteous variety) CHECK

      Brilliant family atmosphere CHECK

      Wee Ginger Dug CHECK

      Wings stand CHECK

      Saltires a plenty CHECK

      Saltires (in the sky) CHECK (THREE)

      Neighbours and friends from Eastiggs area CHECK (bloody ridiculous we had tae travel 120 miles tae meet oor neighbours and friends)

      I’m not fully convinced yet but I think I’m verging on thinking today was a pretty damned good day!

    54. stewartb says:

      Very pleased to read many on Twitter agreeing that the use of the “Tory Scum Out” banner at AUOB events should be ended. There were similar views expressed after the Glasgow march: disappointed to learn it still being used.!nnach/status/1010572684818812929

      Tory voters in Scotland are plain wrong in their views and should be/will be opposed politically – but they should not be referred to, in general, as ‘scum’. Indeed that extreme term should be reserved for as few, exceptionally bad people in this country and in this world as possible.

      And if there are Tory voters who come to their senses and see the merits of independence for Scotland, I will welcome them to the Yes movement – and then oppose them in post-independence elections. ALL Under One Banner for independence.

    55. Highland Wifie says:

      Great day at Bannockburn apart from the less than ideal route. Weather was perfect, a great turnout and highlight of the day – getting to touch The Hairy String at the Wings stall. Such an honour!
      So nice to meet Ronnie again and Liz G, Daisy Walker and I’m sorry I can’t remember who else. You’re all so welcoming, thank you.
      Didn’t see any anti Indy protesters this time. Have they given up? Only a very sad beflagged door that looked a bit pathetic tbh.

      Snap! Also purchased my vile cybernat mug today.

    56. Ken500 says:

      Corbyn turning. Just an opportunist. Changed policy. Useless puppet. Changed Before long once the economy tanks further. There will be increase calls and agitation to stay in the EU. The Tories will be out of office leaving another mess. It is just becoming like Thatcher again. Same vacant coupons, Taking the economy down. Until she gets replaced by the Tories. The voters elsewhere did not get rid of her. 18 years of those villians. It is just like that again or Blair/Brown.

      Thank goodness for Devolution and the SNP Scottish Gov keeping it together. Goodness knows the state of Scotland would be. Some people do not even realise it.. She left over 3million unemployed (smaller pop) and interest rates of 15% Davastated Scotland deliberately. Appalling woman. Scotland got it worst. It took years to recover. Until Devolution. SNP Gov. Scotland had 12% unemployment. People had to migrate to get a job. Families split up.

      Scotland got the worse. Oil money went to London. Loads of money bankers, sold off utilities. Her centralist policies centred round London S/E. Built Canary Wharf, Tilbury Docks. Closed Ports around Britain. Devasted Scottish industry. Closed/shut down. Civil war with the Miners. Starved them.

      Thatcher told a pack of lies and kept it secret under the Official Secrets Act. The further North the higher unemployment. London S/E 3%. Midlands 6%, North of England 9% Scotland 12%. She claimed Scotland was subsidised. Took all the Oil money.

      Thatcher came to the Church of Scotland General Assembly. She said, ‘We the English people are generous to you Scots’. The sermon on the mound. She was taking all that walk out of Scotland. Devastating the economy. Increasing poverty and deprivation. Just appalling. Coarse, spiteful and evil. She died at the Ritz owned by Barclay Bros tax evaders. Own the Telegrath. Thatcher established tax havens for her cronies. Illegally gave Murdoch control of the Sun and Times right wing Press for support.

      You could not make it up. A animal rescue centre is naming a red squirrel after Billy Connelly. Billy. ‘Look there’s a squirrel’. Humblebums. A load of nonsense. It is funny. .

      There was constant violence. Riots and civil unrest. It looks like it going to go that way. again. Unless May and the Tories go. It will just drag on. Corbyn and the rest of them are useless.

    57. galamcennalath says:

      stewartb says:

      Tory Scum Out banner

      Agreed. We’re supposed to be the decent welcoming side in this. We want some of the Scots who were encouraged to vote Tory to switch back.

      Also, out of where? I don’t necessarily want the Tories out of power in WM. They are a far right English Nationalist party and their presence in the ‘government’ of the UK helps the Indy cause enourmously! Their power base is not here in Scotland anyway. What the English voters chose to do with them after Indy is their concern, not ours.

      The banner has a 1980s left wing tone to it. “Tories Out” sounds like a battle cry to have them replaced at WM, and realistically that means by Labour. Scotland has moved on. We shouldn’t be distracted into thinking a change at WM would change Scotland’s lot in this Union.

    58. jfngw says:

      There needs to be some control over what is acceptable banners at the AUOB marches, allowing anything will just attract extreme groups who believe their message is more important than independence. It may even put some off marching as they would not want to be associated with banners containing the word ‘scum’ on it.

      Independence is within our grasp, are we going to let fringes destroy the chance. Are these people really independence supporters, if so they seem to lack any ability to see the damage they cause.

      It’s another example ofhe Rev’s Buckaroo principle.

    59. Phronesis says:

      A great day at Stirling AUOB. These marches are the gatekeeper to the YES movement except there is no gate merely a threshold to cross. All should be encouraged to walk over.

    60. Meg merrilees says:

      Dramfineday @7.34

      Re the UJ bedecked front door on the March route.

      I have a picture of the Penguin standing outside this house waving his/her sign

      “Even the Penguins know the UK is dead as a Dodo” – good picture!

      For those who thought it was a poor route without much exposure, we walked past many gardens with families in them – with ( small) children. I don’t think they’ll forget that sight very quickly and hopefully they are on their way to be the supporters of the independent Scotland we hope to give to them soon.

    61. Arbroath1320 says:

      I remember the march in Edinburgh in 2014 Meg when we had the Panda’s out and about supporting Scottish independence.

      Apparently this idea that the “animals” at Edinburgh zoo are PRO Scottish independence appears to be catching. 😀

    62. Dramfineday says:

      Meg merrilees @ 8.51

      Good spot, I didn’t even see the Penguin, just glanced in the general direction (even better than top trolling then…[insert laughing faced thingbob] I should have gone to a certain opticians.

    63. Famous15 says:

      Argentina 3 Scotland 36. H.T. Ch4

      They are not all Scot butts! Play nice.

    64. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Meg M –

      Sorry I missed you today – sounds like you were at the WOS stall around same time as me.

      Next time!


    65. Footsoldier says:

      @stewartb 8.07pm

      Couldn’t agree more. Banners with Tory scum are counter productive. Indeed the chant of Tories out is also counter productive. Not every Tory is anti-independence and even if they are, we should respect their view.

      I was on the march and thought the music turns at Bannockburn to be far too long especially given the late start. Some of the speeches such as Tommy Sheridan were nothing more than a rant, and will bring no new people to our cause. “The dog” was on form as usual. Jimmy Macgregor was great but still too long for such an occasion.

      For me it ended on a sort of drift away basis rather than a punchy finale.

    66. Great to meet some of the heroes and legends of Wings at the WOS stall today,

      everyone looked a lot younger than i had imagined,

      the march was good natured, lots of smiles,flags,songs,sunshine,shiny happy people and lots of dogs with residents putting out bowls of water for the panting dugs,

      as for some #### at the council forcing the march through the narrow backstreets and housing estates of Stirling,they need named and shamed and then thrown out of Scotland,

      London has 100,000 marching through the centre of one of the busiest cities on earth and London council say `not a problem`

      we have 20,000 marching through a small quiet town and it`s `get tae f’ck from the main street to much hassle`.

    67. Bevrijdingsdag says:

      Willie has a Party.
      Members hardly any.
      Willie and Carmichael.
      Lie when on the Telly.
      Willie licks his lips.
      To kiss Carmichael’s belly.
      HEY!! Willie Rennie.
      Willie leads his party.
      Five Fib Dems too many.
      Hamilton,McArthur spouting vermicelli.
      Rumbles,Stone and Tavish wobble like a jelly.
      HEY!! Willie Rennie.

    68. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Footsoldier (9.38) –

      I didn’t note what time we arrived at the field but it felt much quieter than I expected it to be and the crowd seemed to be very dispersed and ‘laid back’ i.e. literally, just lying about the place! The first speaker I remember hearing was the big Jacobite lad, didn’t catch his name, so I’m wondering if the main speeches had already been delivered before the march had fully arrived?

      Related questions:

      Does anyone know (even roughly) what time Craig Murray spoke?

      Did anyone get drone images of the crowd on Bannockburn field?


    69. Cubby says:

      Highland wifie 8.12pm

      Having a cup of tea out out of my vile cybernat mug right this moment.

    70. Chick McGregor says:

      Our coach was stuck for more than an hour on the Perth ring road we got there after the march had started and by the time we got to Bannockburn we just had a few minutes before we had to head off to the pick up point for 4pm.

      When we heard about the delay on the internet some advised the driver to go through Perth instead but he didn’t want to.

      So never got to or indeed saw the Wings stall.

    71. jfngw says:

      There is no longer a centre ground, you are now either a Scottish Nationalist or a British Nationalist.

      Simple choice for me, Scottish, not British.

    72. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 8.51
      Your directions were spot on Thanks again…
      Sorry we didn’t manage to meet up,it’s funny ye leave thinking that ye met loads of Wingers,then ye come on here and realise how many ye missed,I swear Smallaxe must think I’m actually avoiding him by now…LOL..

      The bell at the Wings stall was inspired….. and I too have my new mug…
      Thanks to Nanna for the refreshments,much needed and much appreciated….
      The Heroes who manned the Wing’s stall,many thanks and very well done,I’m hearing that we might actually be becoming acceptable now,not sure how that’s going to affect our street credibility!!! Will have to ask Cactus!!!
      Talking of Streets (see what I did there?) Meg has a good point there were loads of people and kids takin a look,and as to Wee yoon door hoose….. I was quite near the front of the march and the group round us were chanting “Shame on You ” now they, (the adults ) looked shocked at that.
      Obviously they had their weans there to hid behind if they got any obnoxious abuse,but they looked like they really weren’t expecting that.
      And now they are left yoonsplannin to those kid’s why a whole load of people think they should be ashamed!…
      As for Jack Dress wummin….If she was so “stressed” by the march when I passed… She was about to need oxygen… Never was the phrase “you ain’t seen nuthin yet” more appropriate…..

      While the ” Actual ” police presence was OTT for what was clearly a family occasion with a proven track record of good behaviour,,,, The Stirling Police who were with us were fantastic.. they were plesant, approachable and gave the impression that their only motive was to see us all safely complete our rally,they interacted as far as I could see with a good heart and I couldn’t fault them…. So… Very well done them and I hope we all gave them nae reason tae doubt that they called their approach to us right……
      Onwards tae Inverness!!

    73. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Willie Rennie, the only kind of Rennie that gives you indigestion.

      The only problem with Holyrood is that it gives these utterly mediocre morons an inflated sense of importance.

    74. McDuff says:

      Great day at Bannockburn, lovely atmosphere with everyone enjoying themselves.
      Well done the organisers.

    75. Capella says:

      Not long back from the march. Interesting trudge through the housing estates of Stirling. I couldn’t find the Wings stall. Then had to leave to get home soon after the speeches started. Sorry to have missed everybody.

      Looking forward to seeing some pictures and video clips as I missed all the speeches.

    76. Cubby says:

      Lizg 10.24pm

      I totally agree that the Stirling police were very friendly and seemed to be enjoying themselves and did a good job. However I think the use of the helicopter to monitor the march from 12.30 (when I first saw it) to after the march had finished at Bannockburn was way OTT. Did they think S Kerr and his pals were going to attack us. Also the numbers of Stirling police were well in excess of the numbers in Glasgow for a very much larger crowd.

      Great day many thanks to all who played a role in organising it.

    77. findlay farquaharson says:

      beats me how anyone with a quark of self respect can accept wee willie rennie as a leader

    78. ronnie anderson says:

      Cubby 5.46 Ah hope it was boxed Bdtt wiz tearing up the boxes from the mugs we had on display ( we canny get good staff ) Come Back soon Betty Boop & Lolliemum lol.

    79. ronnie anderson says:

      liz g the difference in Glasgow I asked the Police for a low profile I don’t know if that was asked at Stirling meeting

    80. Meg merrilees says:

      To all those on the March today – I think the high Police presence was in case there were any vociferous protests on some of the narrower streets.
      I’ve actually had ‘The Sash’ sung at me when leafletting in one of the streets around there – not at the South British doorway!

      Also think the helicopter was for traffic control as they were trying to operate a ‘rolling road closure’ – however the crap route slowed us down so much that the roads involved were shut for much longer than would have been the case had they put us on the main road.

      Part of the problem with the route stems from the fact that we were walking out of Stirling towards Bannockburn. If the march had been in Stirling only, we would have to have walked on the main roads in a circular route.
      I still think we should have been on the main roads.

      Thought the Union Jack Lady standing by her vehicle looked as though she was quite vexed – and I noticed there was a policeman standing beside her. Didn’t hear anyone near me being abusive or rude, in fact most people were just ignoring her.

      Full marks to Chris the Piper – he kept walking back down the column and bringing up later sections of the March as it it got near to the Field. Think he was pretty knackered by the end.

      Thought the Bikers for Yes were brilliant as usual – and so many of them this time.
      Wonder how much the helicopter cost and have never seen Bicycle police in Stirling before.

      Ian Brotherhood – sorry to miss you at the Wings stall – thought I better show my face and prove I’m real. You missed a Scottish Socialist speaker and wreath laying at the Statue before the ‘Last Jacobite’ manny, and also an Australian lass speaking gaelic but I can’t remember if she was before the Jacobite. ( He’s not the last Jacobite as there are quite a few that I know who go to Culloden, Sherrifmuir, Glencoe etc. annually to lay wreaths and commemorate our History)
      Plus there was another man singing before Alastair Mc Donald.

      I was at the Wings stall while he was singing, and then my small group left after that – about 5.20pm.

      Glad you get there and back safely Liz g and hopefully Smallaxe also got home safely.

      Sorry for the long post.

    81. Liz g says:

      Cubby @ 11.22
      Aye Cubby the Cops on the ground were all great…..
      The statement that it was “Too much for what was clearly a family occasion with a proven track record of good behaviour “ wasn’t actually mine…… I was from one of the Newbies with me, on his first march & rally…… A retired Police Inspector……
      But having said that.. while the Glasgow Police were also brilliant with us, It got the impression that they hadn’t counted on the numbers that turned up,and we were under policed there, which was fine because of the kind of crowd that we were, but for sheer crowd safety it was not ideal.
      Looks like Stirling went too much the other way…
      No harm done though we have always received a good service from them at any event we have held and I hope this will continue…..and we are mindful that it’s a two way street

    82. Liz g says:

      Ronnie Anderson @ 11.50
      Well the guy with me did actually say that “you only didn’t SEE them in Glasgow “
      But later on one WPC we were chatting to said “we know that there were hardly any police in Glasgow, we’re not making that mistake “….. sooo ????
      I suppose we’ll never really know, but either way, they did fine by us on the day… and I’m proud of our crowd…..
      And well done you mister… You always step up for us Thank you!!

    83. Meg merrilees says:


      Scotland has just beaten Argentina at Rugby 44 -15. Results came in about an hour ago but wasn’t mentioned on the midnight news.

      As usual, they just don’t bother reporting information about Scotland, but we heard that South Britain beat south Africa earlier – funny that!

      Just waiting to hear the weather for North Britain now…

    84. Capella says:

      Checked the BBC site. Yes they do have a brief report on the Bannockburn march and a few pictures. But thought you would enjoy their take on Robert the Bruce’s “claim” to victory. There is obviously some doubt about the outcome.

      Bannockburn is where Robert the Bruce claimed victory over Edward II’s English army in 1314.


    85. schrodingers cat says:

      i couldnt make it today, soz
      not that it would have made any difference as i am most definately not real and only a figment of your imaginations 🙂

    86. Arbroath1320 says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      23 June, 2018 at 9:52 pm

      as for some #### at the council forcing the march through the narrow backstreets and housing estates of Stirling,they need named and shamed and then thrown out of Scotland,

      London has 100,000 marching through the centre of one of the busiest cities on earth and London council say `not a problem`

      we have 20,000 marching through a small quiet town and it`s `get tae f’ck from the main street to much hassle`.

      I think you’ll find the answer here Scot.

      Just look for the councillors from the RED and BLUE Tories. Despite the SNP being the largest party in Stirling council Richard Leonard’s lackies jumped into bed with the Colonel’s lackies, just as they have done in Aberdeen and so many other councils.

      As far as I can see the Tories were determined to make the march as difficult as possible. With 15,000 plus on the actual march and around 1,000 to 2,000 alrerady at Bannockburn I guess THAT particular Tory plan backfired … BIG TIME! 😀

    87. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cubby says:23 June, 2018 at 11:22 pm

      ” … However I think the use of the helicopter to monitor the march from 12.30 (when I first saw it) to after the march had finished at Bannockburn was way OTT.”

      Ah! I was a union rep for many years and it gives an insight into how a workforce’s collective minds work.

      I’d bet that the ‘copter crew don’t get overused in Stirling except perhaps covering accidents & emergencies and possibly for call to Stirlingshire’s more remote areas. Also the Beat Bobbies will have not nearly the same things to cover as in Greater Glasgow.

      Who wouldn’t be happy to get a call to extra-overtime easy crowd control with non-troublemakers like the Yes Marchers?

      Probably the only bad tempered polis in Stirling yesterday were the ones on their normal weekend shift at flat rate and nae overtime.

    88. Arbroath1320 says:

      Capella says:
      24 June, 2018 at 12:34 am
      Checked the BBC site. Yes they do have a brief report on the Bannockburn march and a few pictures. But thought you would enjoy their take on Robert the Bruce’s “claim” to victory. There is obviously some doubt about the outcome.

      Bannockburn is where Robert the Bruce claimed victory over Edward II’s English army in 1314.


      I was near the statue of a very impressive man astride an even more impressive horse 😉 Capella when the last Jacobite was doing his “turn” at Bannockburn. I’m sure when he was recounting the “meeting” of the Bruce and Henry de Boun he mentioned that if you wander the battlefield at night some people claim that you can still see the “ghost” of the headless English knight Henry de Boun killed by the Bruce at the battle in one on one combat. 😉

    89. Meg merrilees says:

      Arbroath 1320

      We have to be careful that it doesn’t backfire on us though – a quick look on Stephen Kerr’s twitter page confirms a photo of the ‘Tory Scum Out’ banner and is quickly associated with Bruce Crawford and Keith Brown both being in attendance and seemingly endorsing that message. Murdo Fraser has picked up on that.
      Also, seems someone took a photo of mugs on sale with the logo ‘F…k the Tories’.

      Of course, all this happened while the ‘model MP’ Stephen Kerr was highly visible out and about in ‘ the real Bannockburn’ as he styles it.

      Can’t stand the man.

    90. Thepnr says:


      “Bruce’s “claim” to victory.”

      LOL yes I do love the way it can be spun.

      In a very good mood tonight, was great meeting old friends and new in the Bannockburn field, Hello Bill 🙂 We might not be there yet but I think we’re pretty damn close to it.

      When the starting gun is fired for the next referendum there are enough of us now that will get us over the finishing line in front. Have faith for we are winning.

    91. Robert Peffers says:

      @findlay farquaharson says: 23 June, 2018 at 11:46 pm:

      ” … beats me how anyone with a quark of self respect can accept wee willie rennie as a leader.”

      Ah! Then you don’t know Wullie’s history then, Findlay?

      The previous leader retired and Willie, then a List MSP was the only candidate that was proposed. As no one else in the Lib Dem Party was prepared to serve as Scottish Leader, the list MSP not only got elected to Holyrood with no one voting for him but then stepped into the leader’s shoes without ever having anyone vote for him.

      It was not until the subsequent Dunfermline bi-election, (if memory serves after Rachael Squires died), that Willie got any votes from the public but by that time the electorate couldn’t be bothered and the Labour voters had followed the party line and abstained from voting and Willie managed to overturn the previous Labour vote. Note that as a list MSP he wasn’t standing as an MSP for Dunfermline but got picked from the list to represent North East Fife.

      So Willie, like so much other deadwood at Holyrood, was inflicted upon Scotland by the list system, much the same as Murdo who holds office although no one votes for him.

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @Meg merrilees says: 24 June, 2018 at 12:59 am:

      Of course, all this happened while the ‘model MP’ Stephen Kerr was highly visible out and about in ‘ the real Bannockburn’ as he styles it.
      Can’t stand The man.

      Stephen Kerr?

      Oh! You mean, “That Stephen Kerr”, The one in this report:-

    93. Cactus says:

      Mornin’ like.

      Somegoodbuddy just said to me…

      That Aerosmith are zionists…

      What does that mean?

      Bannockburn, you’re cool.

    94. Cactus says:

      Anyways, good tae be with yee’s, we’re havin’ a party back in Glasgow, Arden like.

      RA SUN is comin’ up.

      Behold daylight.

      ACDC Thunder

    95. Arbroath1320 says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      24 June, 2018 at 12:59 am
      Arbroath 1320

      We have to be careful that it doesn’t backfire on us though – a quick look on Stephen Kerr’s twitter page confirms a photo of the ‘Tory Scum Out’ banner and is quickly associated with Bruce Crawford and Keith Brown both being in attendance and seemingly endorsing that message. Murdo Fraser has picked up on that.
      Also, seems someone took a photo of mugs on sale with the logo ‘F…k the Tories’.

      Of course, all this happened while the ‘model MP’ Stephen Kerr was highly visible out and about in ‘ the real Bannockburn’ as he styles it.

      Can’t stand the man.

      Of course lazy fat earseholes like Kerr will always do incompetent ignorant disrespectful shite like that Meg. What he is completely incapable of recognising is that one photograph has no clear direct link to the other except to both being from the march to Bannockburn. That in itself in now way means there is any sort of link between the two photo’s in my view.

      Kerr is clutching at straws but unfortunately for him he can not reach the straws. Everyone at the march to Bannockburn knows the score. This particular banner was, thankfully, absent at Dumfries and I’m surprised those involved with this particular banner thought it was a good idea to carry it at Bannockburn. I really would have thought that after Dumfries they would have got the message loud and clear. Clearly they have not.

      Perhaps it’s time AUOB organisers took to actually inspecting ALL banners before starting the next few marches to ensure banners like this are forbidden! In reality it is a lot of completely unnecessary work for the organisers but if some marchers can not grasp the message being sent to them then we as a Scotland wide collaboration need to do what’s needed.

      Kerr, like all Tories in Scotland are nothing more than apologists for Feartie and her disasters. They have NOTHING to say to the people of Scotland and can only engineer their own faux anger.

      To be honest I can’t say I’m surprised that Murdo “Queen’s Eleven Orange Order” Fraser has jumped onto Kerr’s one wheeled donkey-less cart.

      Like so many I’m less than impressed with that banner but apparently the “upset and complaining” Tories are completely oblivious to their own support for sectarianism, homophobia, xenophobia, myoginism, and gawd knows what other disgusting ideas.

    96. Ian says:

      Sorry to go way off topic, anyone point me in the direction of Irn bru sales since the recipe and tax change?

      I have seen lots of crap about increased sales but that was people stock piling before April


    97. Stevieh says:

      Coudnt be there at Bannockburn cos working today but big shout out to all who were. Watched on u tube after work but most sites have only couple of hunner views needs more promo on u tube methinks let’s pass this around on u tube as well as facetwitagramschat etc and also on the world wide web www for short (copyright Richard Marley I believe)

    98. BillWemyss says:

      Very long time lurker (since around 2013), first time poster.

      Was at Bannockburn today and bumped into a few Wingers, putting faces to names was a pleasure. Thepnr and Cactus to mention only a couple.

      Regarding Willie Rennie, I live in Fife and I am totally embarrassed by that mans incompetence. He in no way represents the feelings of the people in my area. I actually cringe when I watch the man speak at FMQ’s.

      Thanks for listening to my rant. All the best.

    99. Robert Louis says:

      Seriously I agree with the point people make about the Tory out banners, but don’t you all think you are making an awful big deal about not very much. I mean seriously, so what.

      Is it really the biggest problem right now? Dinnae think so. Lots of banners yesterday, it’s called all under one banner, people with differing viewpoints, but with one goal – independence.

      In short, it will only matter if folks on the indy side keep making such a big deal about it. Nobody else is. Besides, most people in Scotland agree with those banners. The Tories are scum.

    100. Shinty says:

      Robert Louis – exactly.

    101. Luigi says:

      The only time I appreciated Willie Rennie was that time down in the farmyard, during an interview when a couple of pigs behind the wee clown started some action. It went viral. Comedy gold. 🙂

    102. Bill Hume says:

      I’m afraid I don’t agree with Robert Louis or Shinty on the subject of the Tory Scum Out banner. As has been said by both the Rev. and Wee Ginger, the point of the exercise is to gain support for the independence movement, not frighten off potential yes voters.

      We need to get a bit ‘smarter’ if we are to win the next referendum and there are votes (perhaps not many to be fair) to be won from people of all political persuasions including Tories.

      We really must stop ‘frightening the horses’ and accept that if we want to win, we must sometimes moderate our behavior to do so.

      There are some people in the independence movement who want a republic, some want a monarchy. Some want to stay in the EU, some want to leave. Some want a socialist republic and some want a slightly left of centre government.

      These things of course, should be decided democratically AFTER we gain independence, not writ large before then.

      We should all ask ourselves, is what I’m doing progressing the cause of independence or is it hindering it?

      We all need to put aside our own personal hobby horses and work together to win.

    103. starlaw says:

      Luigi 8.19.

      Pigs are practical jokers and that pair saw Wullie Rennie for the idiot he is.

      I detest the man a total cretin … he is continually asking for somebody or another to be sacked Holyrood would be well rid of him. On the good side his behaviour is off putting for anyone wishing to vote Liberal

    104. Ken500 says:

      Hopefully Mark MacDonald will step aside at the next election. So there is no likelihood of splitting the Independence/SNP vote. Or risk a unionist representative getting in to harm the Constituency. By then Mark MacDonald could have another job lined up, which could be more suitable, Be more accustomed with less stress and anxiety. More congenial and work better.

      The last thing the NE needs is any other hapless unionist who has not got a clue. Ruining the economy.and harming the constituency with their lies, incompetence and ignorance. Backing up the Tory unionist disasterous policies and Brexit.

      Now that Alex Salmond had gone the best politician the NE has ever had. He did more for the NE and Scotland than any politician has ever done. He got more essential funding during the downturn caused by the Tory/unionists. Achieved the funding for the essential by pass road. He will always be remembered for that. It should be callled Alex Salmond Highway. High ways right enough on the airways. Broadcasting around the world to potentially billions. Putting Scotland in the map. A world Statesman. Always standing up for Scotland. A lifetime of service. Still going strong.

      The AWPR what a feat. What an accomplishment. Just brilliant. Amazing. After all these years. An improvement to the economy and growth. Thanks forever Alex, the Scottish Gov and the construction guys. Totally Brilliant. Giving employment when the Tory/unionists ruined the Oil & Gas sector with unfair, illegally high taxes when the price had fallen. Losing thousands of jobs and £Billions. Ignoramouses not fit for office.

      Osbourne creeping into and out of the NE ruining the economy. Cameron arriving on an airforce jet and army helicopter. Instead of taking normal executive transport. Before spending £Millions of public money. Wasted on a private jet.

      Johnstone wants another one. Who do they think they are? Troughing around the world causing trouble and disruption everywhere. People are dead and starving at every corner because of their disgusting policies. The Tories ruining the farming sector taking EU CAP payments intended for poorer, struggling farmers in Scotland. No parity. £Millions given to wealthier farmers in the south.

      When remonstrations were made the Tory minister even quoting ‘Better Together’. Honestly. Completely appalling representation. The Tory policies ruining the fishing sector for years. Not reorganising the fishing industry using small nets. Conservation. Improving terms and conditions. Creating more jobs and increasing production,

      The turbines in the Bay (a bit close) but will produce tons of cheap energy. Instigated by Alex and Co. The sports village additional funding for the Olympic pool. Providing training and swimming for all the champion swimmers coming from Scotland. It should be know as Alex Salmond Centre. That would be a great gesture. Instead the vacant coupon Labour/unionist tries to take credit for it.

      Trying to take people for fools ruining the City Centre with the over priced wasted grotesque monstrosity. Costing £Millions of wasted taxpayers money. Money is cut from essential services, education, social care and drug rehabilitation to pay for the gross unneccessary mess. Trying to put the homeless in jail. Costs more. Not building affordable essential houses for years. Keeping class sizes too high, 100 teachers short and cutting the education funding allocation.

      Since lying devious, sleekit Davidson and her useles shower got into office. Never has there been such a catastrophe for NE and Scotland. Liars always get find out.

      People should be allowed campaigning with any banners they like. The truth hurts? The march looks amazing. A great atmosphere. A brilliant affair. Great turnout thanks to all who participated, especially for those who can’t for logistic reasons.

      Just get out and vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. When there is a second Independence Ref. Not before long. Mass support.

    105. Ottomanboi says:

      More revelations on the GSA fire.
      No surprises there, just usual bog standard incompetence.

    106. Bill Hume says:

      Ken500 @8:47

      Sorry Ken, but people should not parade with whatever banners they like.

      If I joined an AUOB march with a banner saying ‘Vote SNP to ban the Orange Order’ or ‘Vote SNP to abolish Catholic schools’ that would be counter productive.

      We need to keep the message positive and reinforce the fact that without independence we cannot achieve the country we want.

      The country we want will be decided by the people of Scotland AFTER independence.

    107. Capella says:

      Re TORY SCUM OUT banner – I aree that it is in poor taste but I also agree with the sentiment. The majority of people in Scotland also want to end Tory rule. We haven’t voted Tory since 1955 and yet we are dominated by Tory politics no matter how we vote. That’s the democratic deficit which independence will end. Scottish voters can engage with that.

      Yes, there are Tory voters in Scotland and we must respect their point of view. But let them argue their case fair and square and not rely on a neighbouring country to provide Tory government for us. I see the Tory Party as effectively the English National Party. They just disguise it with a nonsense name “Tory”.

    108. Ken500 says:

      Responsible banners? No Independence supporters would carrying such banners as has been suggested. So that would not happen. The Tories. Some people like them some people do not.

      ‘The country will be decided by the people after Independence.’ Obviously. According to the Tory/unionists that will not happen. They will do everything to prevent it. Behave appallingly. So wants the problem. Why pussy foot around it. Giving great considerate to people who will not make it happen and will behave disgracefully. Always have. They have form.

      The Tory/unionists do not support Independence in any shape or form, They are trying to destroy Holyrood, taking away powers etc. The have ruined the Scottish/world economy for years. In every way they can. Secretly and illegally and want to continue to do so. Treat people appallingly. If people wish to make a comment on their behaviour. What’s the problem? Freedom of speech.

      The vote is secret even Tories/unionist can vote for Independence. If they want. Hypocrites. Their avowed intention is to do everything possible to prevent Independence. Illegally take away powers. Destroy the Scottish Parliament, ruin the economy and take away democracy.

      A banner being used to describe snd comment on the situation is more likely to increase support for Independence.

    109. SOG says:

      I’m sorry that I can’t afford to drive from the south of England to join any AUOB march. If I could, I’d be unwilling to march anywhere behind that particular slogan. Could they be asked to place themselves and their banner at the back?

    110. Northern Rock says:

      Anybody know how much was raised at the Wings stall yesterday.

      I remember the guy Ronnie Anderson telling Wings posters that he would give them an update of the total raised at the Glasgow march after the Dumfries march.

      The Bannockburn march has come and gone which would have added even MORE money to the Wings coffers.

      So, has anybody any idea how much has been raised at those three marches?

      It must be into the thousands of pounds by now.

      Two Simple question then,,

      1/ How much has been raised at the three marches?


      2/ Where is the money now?

      If I put money into a fundraiser at a Wings stall. I don’t want it to be used by one individual for their own personal gain.

      I think you all know where I am going with this.

      A certain Mr Ronnie Anderson needs to start answering questions.

    111. Breeks says:

      The thing about the Bannockburn route is academic, because a higher profile “through the town” route might have been great, but whichever permutation you put it through, it just put more miles onto the overall distance. It was far enough I think.

      If you want a march through the Stirling Town Centre, for a lot of people that rules out finishing at Bannockburn, and the reciprocal is true also, if you want a march that ends at Bannockburn, then you either march through countryside or through the residential streets which we did. I take my hat off to the organisers. Bannockburn burn was a difficult fix, but they made the right calls.

      Of the two, I think finishing at Bannockburn, where Scotland essentially fought and won its independence against all odds, was by far the more poignant destination. 700 years ago, it wasn’t dogs desperate for a drink of water, but men with no spit, holding their weapons and facing the end of life itself.

      If I recall correctly too, no disrespect to the fine Stirling Castle, but after Bannockburn, I understand Robert the Bruce destroyed the castle so the English couldn’t use it as a base to invade and subjugate the Scots. Funny how landmarks change in our psyche.

      I know it’s a bit deep, but with issues like Bannockburn and physical wars and battles in our past, carrying provocative banners like Tory Scum Out, marching arm in arm with English for Independence, and marching too with, how shall I put it, a light touch support from our SNP, then of course there is Europe, without pushing my own personal prejudices, I think we have a wee identity crisis. Well, a crisis isn’t the word, but of those 15k plus people marching yesterday, it’s like everybody needs a second flag.

      I mean, I marched for Indy, but my Saltire has EU stars because “MY” Indy sees Scotland staying in Europe.
      Some guys marched for Indy because their Indy is the end of the Tories.
      Some guys marched for Indy because their Indy is a socialist Utopia.

      It’s difficult to say in words, but “We” seem fragile. For example, if the SNP came out in favour for EU membership at all costs, there seems to be a fear a third of us would suddenly turn Unionist. If we went too far left, those who lean towards the right might leave us. If we are too harsh on Labour, Labour folks might leave us… see what I mean? Fragile.

      A YES march is all things to all people, and Independence seems to be the only thing holding it all together. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to be negative or critical, quite the reverse.

      I just think if we can tidy up the “clutter” which bogs us down if we simplify what YES means, and focus on the essentials -the objective, fact based ramifications of what Constitutional Sovereignty is, and all that it is.

      It’s like a wedding. It gets all spruced up with venues, flowers, guest lists, speeches, garden parties, .. the whole thing can cost thousands… But the essential thing, the vow of marriage, can be done without any fuss in a registry office. That’s where the marriage occurs, the quite exchange of vows and it’s pronouncement.

      Next March, when somebody shouts out “What do we want?” The answer comes “Independence”. I want to shout out “Sovereignty”. When everybody shouts out “Sovereignty”, I’ll be on cloud 9.

      I guess at heart, I’m one of those dreaded fundamentalists. To me a campaign is a clutter of distractions. I can take or leave a big wedding, and I don’t mind the frugal registry office type either. At the end of the day, it’s the same wedding vow they all take. I’m not saying we go that far, and do away with all the “noise” because there’s a lot of fun and reward in all the clutter, but I just wish for Sovereignty to take its rightful place in our priorities.

      Once the whole Nation FULLY understands the concept and principles of Scotland’s Sovereignty, then wherever we march, we are marching on Easy Street and on our way to having our Sovereign Independence properly recognised.

      What do we want? Sovereignty. When do we want it? Now, and for all eternity.

    112. Ken500 says:

      Mr Ronnie Anderson is one of the heroes of Independence. His self sacrificing time has been used to benefit others in the most honourable way. Donating time and his own expense and endeavours like no other. Along with others. Raising money for charity and the Indepence movement. Altruistic and helping others. Everyone who puts in funds for his stewardship is done freely. To make any other assertions is malicious, deplorable and libellous. People doing so through anonymity..Might find themselves in trouble.

      Ronnie Anderson and Co are worse their weight in gold. Along with Rev Stu. Their efforts are uncountable. Ignore the dissident. Thanks a billion.

    113. Capella says:

      @ Breeks – we would have to shout “What do have?”, “Sovereignty”, “How long have we had it?”, “Since at least 1320 and probably long before then.”

    114. James Barr Gardner says:

      Got my vile cybernat mug at the wings stall. Thanks again Ronnie for your kindness, the seat and cool drink were greatly appreciated.

    115. ronnie anderson says:

      Bannockburn .

      Poor day in the traces folks – £304 donated for merchandise.
      With the £286 carried forward from Dumfries, the Wings stall has £590 for future projects, ie buying merchandise.

      And Many Thanks to Sybil & Mr Smallaxe [ dapper dan] for donation of crisps & helping out on the stall , Odet & wee Anne Jenkins also & the Wingers who brought Bbc stickers for the stall .

      Many Thanks Wingers/Lurkers/Yessers for you support in donating to the Wings stall.

    116. Ken500 says:

      Thatcher. Unemployment. NI 20%. Scotland 15% The only place under 10% London S/E. Recession 1990. High inflation. Interest rates 17% Used higher unemployment to try and control inflation. Cut benefits. Cut jobs and imported more goods. Putting up inflation. Violent reactions.

      Inflation 25% in the 1970’s

      2017. Unemployment slightly higher in London S/E than Scotland.

    117. Capella says:

      I have a postcard of Robert the Bruce sitting on his charger with the famous quote from the Declaration of Arbroath as caption:

      …for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

      Maybe we should print off leaflets explaining this so that when people ask “whit’s that?” we can just hand over a leaflet.

      Wikipedia article about the Declaration of Arbroah, alert – shows signs of unionist revisionism.

    118. Bill Hume says:

      You are welcome Ronnie, it was nice meeting you and Smallaxe (and caressing the hairy string….oh, perhaps thats a bit weird).

      Some pics here.

    119. Thepnr says:


      I have a genuine question, when were the Scottish people recognised as being sovereign? I thought it was 1320 in the declaration of Arbroath so read it and nothing there.

    120. Thepnr says:

      @Bill Hume

      Great pictures! You got a cracker of Smallaxe and made him look like the rockstar he is LOL.

    121. Craig P says:

      Thepnr – it was said in passing on a court case in the 1950s:

      1320 was an important moment but there wasn’t really a concept of ‘the people’ in those days, Arbroath referred to the right of the barons and nobles to replace the monarch. The Covenant of 1638 was another important moment but to the people who signed it God was sovereign, not the people, the people were just the instruments of God’s will. And then there was the radical rising in 1820, but that was crushed completely.

    122. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – I have read that the delaration says that if the King of Scots fails to protect the people then we can remove hm and select another. Wikipedia article says this without quoting the actual section. Adds he usual caveat the the concept of “the people” is a modern concept – maybe:

      The Declaration made a number of points: that Scotland had always been independent, indeed for longer than England; that Edward I of England had unjustly attacked Scotland and perpetrated atrocities; that Robert the Bruce had delivered the Scottish nation from this peril; and, most controversially, that the independence of Scotland was the prerogative of the Scottish people, rather than the King of Scots. In fact it stated that the nobility would choose someone else to be king if Bruce proved to be unfit in maintaining Scotland’s independence.

      Sir Robert Peffers will come along shortly to set the record straight.

    123. Chick McGregor says:

      I didn’t join in with the Tory, Tory, Tory, Out, Out, Out chant because attaching domestic political allegiance to the indy movement is wrong, whatever your own domestic political beliefs are. It is also a false political prospective.

      However, I have to admit, that given the working class estate route (mostly) that the march was required to take, it probably in this instance gained more votes than it lost.

      A co marcher nearby did remonstrate with one of the chant leaders though. I tried to defuse things with a bit of humour but feelings on either side were too high and I probably only made things worse.

      The best outcome regarding the materialistic middle class in Scotland is that they are persuaded they will be worse off in a post Brexit anti-Scottish UK, not by inferring they would be ‘punished’ in an independent Scotland.

    124. Artyhetty says:



      Pretty sure Thatcher put so many people out of work it was 25% unemployment in north of England and must have been close to that in Scotland. That nasty, life destroying excuse for a human being destroyed the lives of millions, the knock on effects have been long term. They hid the real figures of numbers of people whose lives they destroyed.

      She destroyed whole communities, took a wrecking ball to towns and cities while lining the pockets of dodgy leaders of regimes around the world, as well as lining the pockets of her Tory pals and the bankers. Why do these nasty, life destroying gits get into positions of power, it’s bloody bizarre.

      The Tories and their Labour sidekicks will do that to Scotland again, if they can get half a chance, we just won’t freaking allow that though! After ten years of the SNP, having made huge inroads into repairing the terrible damage that the Labour left in Scotland, to lives and communities, Labour party’s legacy, just despicable.

      As for Gove and Mundell attempting their little faux caring stunt by coming to Scotland for the highland games, spouting their lies on agriculture and fisheries, they can stick it where the sun don’t shine. Not a coo, but a coup, they will be sucking up the faux media attention elevating them to some kind of higher status than the low life, lying slugs that they really are.

      I hope people turn their backs to these troughing liars at the games, they have nothing positive to contribute to Scotland’s future at all.

    125. Bill McLean says:

      Chick – like you neither I nor my wife took part in the Tory out chants. Have absolutely no time for them but it had no place in our march for a noble cause!

    126. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Yesterday, the cash in the WOS stall’s cashbox was counted by Sybil (Mrs Smallaxe), then Ronnie.

      This morning, it was counted again by Ronnie, then by me.

      If anyone has a problem, feel free to come to the WOS stall at the end of an event and have your shottie at counting the cash.

      If anyone can’t be @r$ed enough to take that opportunity, it ill behoves anyone to cast aspersions due to ignorance.

      (BTW: Ronnie would like to know where the free merchandise tree is, that anyone sees to believe in. Ronnie would like to pick of its fruits for our future labours.)

    127. Sarah says:

      @BillWemyss at 4.30a.m.: nice to hear from you! and interesting to get a local view of Willie Rennie – seems to match the view from a distance!

    128. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 11.10
      It was done by Papal Bull (a decree by the then pope) the only kind of international law there was back in the 13th century.
      It was because The Bruce had been Excommunicated from the Catholic Church,and if HE was our Sovereign so was all of Scotland.
      So to get around this “civic” Scotland made successful representation to the Vatican and The people themselves were declared Sovereign….. For the actual date and details you will need Robert Peffers,but that’s the general overview.
      We became Sovereign by law in the early 13th century,by the permission of God (just like auld Lizzie) and only God can turn up and change it….also just like auld Lizzie.
      That’s the problem for Westminster,if they claim the power to change ours hers is on a shaky nail….

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      @Arbroath1320 says: 24 June, 2018 at 2:37 am:

      Meg merrilees says: 24 June, 2018 at 12:59 am:

      ” … We have to be careful that it doesn’t backfire on us though”

      First up, define, who these, “we”, and “us”, actually are?

      … a quick look on Stephen Kerr’s twitter page confirms a photo of the ‘Tory Scum Out’ banner and is quickly associated with Bruce Crawford and Keith Brown both being in attendance and seemingly endorsing that message.” Murdo Fraser has picked up on that.”

      Yes but they would, wouldn’t they? That’s par for that particular course.

      ” … Also, seems someone took a photo of mugs on sale with the logo ‘F…k the Tories’.”

      Which, of course is the actual, “Tory Scum”, playing their victim cards – as usual. “We”, and, “Us”, are not obliged to accept, “Them”, playing as the victims. They are, after all, the perpetrators of the actual persecution of the sick, disabled, elderly, and poor of the disUnited Kingdom. Ergo they are the truly, “divisive”, faction who accuse the SNP/SG/YES movements of being divisive.

      ” … Like so many I’m less than impressed with that banner but apparently the “upset and complaining” Tories are completely oblivious to their own support for sectarianism, homophobia, xenophobia, myoginism, and gawd knows what other disgusting ideas.”

      Exactly – but again I ask, “Who are this, “We”, and, “Us”, you speak about? Let me explain why I’m asking you that question.

      The march was organised by, “AUOB”, and that title in itself should be self explanatory but obviously is not to some Wingers.

      It is titled, “All Under One Banner”, simply because it represents ALL the much wider and spontaneously arising grassroots movements, AND the SNP, Labour, Tory, LibDem and the SG all under one heading.

      Now that carries with it an implication that all are welcome including the Tory/Labour/LibDem/SNP and the minor loony left wingers too.

      Yet here we have commenters advocating that AUOB should be regulating the disparate factions that march All Under that One Banner. If they did so it would destroy the whole ethos of ALL who participate in protesting against the current Westminster Government and demanding Scottish Independence.

      This is the same argument that applies to the YES movement and certain Wingers who have expressed the view that the SNP should lead the YES movement. The point being the moment the SG or SNP were to take the lead the disparate YES movement and AUOB are made redundant. Then instead of being a spontaneous grassroots movement it would instantly become a devolved part of the Westminster Government rebelling against the Westminster Government.

      The whole point of both YES and AUOB is that they are NOT composed of one faction and cannot be regulated as if they were.

      Sorry for going on about it but the concept is far easier to understand than it is to attempt to explain.

    130. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Well said. In fact tell the doubters nothing, they sit on there lazy arses expecting others to spread the message and do the heavy lifting then demand answers.

      Northern Rock is an obvious troll and you know what to do with them. Ignore the stirrers of the porridge.

      You guys working your socks off are an inspiration, keep up the good work in getting the message out there.

      Ignore the bampots.

    131. Liz g says:

      Me @ 12.01
      And just as a point of interest….
      The declared Sovereignty of the Scottish People ment those who fell under rule of – Scotland’s King and Law –
      So its a bit bloody obvious that didn’t mean where ye were born,or what colour yer skin was…
      Just if Scotland’s Law’s apply to you!!! AKA … if ye live here..
      Also Scotland having a legal system is what makes it Not Manchester,or any Region at all… And what denotes our Borders and seas… This is why it’s protected “”Forever”” in The Treaty of the Union…
      Its not the Treaty that’s Forever,it’s the integrity of Scottish Law…

    132. Capella says:

      Declaration of Arbroath can be downloaded from the National Register of Scotland site. It’s in Latin (for the scholars) and English. Scroll down to page 5 for a pretty definitive statement of the right of “the people” to choose their monarch.

    133. Thepnr says:


      Thanks for the link, as I said I had read it but didn’t see anything as being “definitive”. I take it you are talking of the following paragraph.

      Yet if he should give up what he has begun, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own right and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

      There is no mention of people and my take is that they are talking of themselves, the nobility and signatories of the declaration.

      Put it this way, if the people of Scotland were sovereign how was it possible for the nobles to agree a Union with England in 1707 despite there being riots in the streets by the people? I guess they weren’t asked and if they were then most likely we would not be in a Union with England today and wouldn’t be seeking Independence.

      Independence is about regaining our sovereignty which as I see it is simply bestowing the power on the populous to make the choices that affect us all. Welfare or war? We should be asked.

      I totally agree that the people of Scotland are sovereign and when we are Independent that should be written into our constitution. Right now I feel it is still in murky waters and in no way definitive.

    134. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. What we won’t see on the Front Page of the Sunday Mail in Scotland.


      To Theresa May— ” ‘Gavin Williamson the Defence Secretary —–give me £20 BN or I’ll bring you down’ ” 🙁

      Just so we keep up to date with what’s happening in the UK Tory Unionist Party.

    135. Breeks says:

      Thepnr says:
      24 June, 2018 at 11:10 am

      I have a genuine question, when were the Scottish people recognised as being sovereign? I thought it was 1320 in the declaration of Arbroath so read it and nothing there.

      The Declaration of Arbroath is the document which affirms that the people of Scotland can depose their “Sovereign” King, therefor it isn’t the King who is sovereign but the people. That didn’t seal the deal, because Sovereignty needs to be recognised, but both the Pope, and the Dowager Queen of England recognised the Kingdom of Scotland in 1328. The latter in the peace treaty ending the war with Scotland, the Treaty of Northampton, which stated that Scotland “shall belong to our dearest ally and friend, the magnificent prince, Lord Robert, by God’s grace illustrious King of Scotland, and to his heirs and successors, separate in all things from the kingdom of England, whole, free, and undisturbed in perpetuity, without any kind of subjection, service, claim or demand”.

      You thereby have Scotland declaring its people sovereign over its monarch, it’s monarch and kingdom being recognised in perpetuity by the English, and the Pope, God’s eyes and ears on Earth, formally recognising the Sovereign Nation of Scotland.

      As Robert Peffers says all the time, there is nothing subsequently written, no treaty, agreement or instrument which removes sovereignty from the Scottish people. A thing was done that cannot be undone. The 1707 Union exists solely by subterfuge and sophistry, and the UK’s international recognition, and Westminster’s claims that it enjoys Parliamentary Sovereignty are unwarranted.

    136. ronnie anderson says:

      Thepnr my post at 10.59 wasn’t in response to the arsehole at 10.26 I couldn’t give a f*ck about his want’s , it was to inform Wingers/Lurkers how much was in the kitty .

    137. Thepnr says:


      Thanks for the reply, it helps though doesn’t yet clear things up totally for me. I guess that I associate sovereignty with pure unadulterated democracy.

      The sovereign people have to be asked the question otherwise how else would you know what there will is?

      By the way murky or not we should keep on asserting our sovereignty.

    138. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Quite right and I didn’t say that it was a response to the arsehole that asked the question.

      Anyway, very well done on your and the helpers efforts once again yesterday, very much appreciated by true Independence supporters, the arseholes will just have to lump it if they don’t like it.

    139. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 12.44
      Its as definitive as it could be give the ways in which society was formed at the time.
      Democracy as we now understand it was primitive, as in, it was only expressed in two ways…
      You either supported your leader…
      Or you rebelled….

      We wouldn’t even have called it Democracy it was giving allegiance,but it was still people power.

      So yes the declaration is speaking about the only “representatives” of the people of Scotland at that time.
      But those “representatives” could only exercise their “God Give” right to drive out a King had they the support of the people.
      That Everyone agreed God was real
      Everyone Agreed that the Pope was the guy with the direct line.
      Everyone Agreed to abide by the Popes decisions…
      It could be said that the process of transferring the Sovereignty of Scotland from her King to her people’s through their representatives was Democratic…. Insofar as God is real because the majority of the people say he is.

      Even with a written constitution the concept of what Sovereignty means and how it is expressed will still be up for debate…. The US has been at it for 300 odd year’s.
      Although I have heard from somewhere ( memory like a sieve)
      Aileen ,McHarge/McHage is doing some work to try to define Scotland’s Sovereignty a bit better…she’s the professor who regularly snibs Adam Tompkins… So hopefully we will all be a bit clearer when it comes to writing Our own Constitution..

      Writing Scotland’s Constitution….Imagine that and we’ll get to see it,be involved in it and most of all make it possible..
      Makes ye Humble eh?

    140. Jack Murphy says:

      Meg merrilees mentioned in her post at 12:07am this morning:
      “….Thought the Bikers for Yes were brilliant as usual – and so many of them this time…….”

      Here’s a video of them yesterday 🙂 :

      and if anyone missed their appearance at Dumfries a couple of weeks ago,here it is:

      Keep up the good work Yes Bikers and many many thanks. 🙂

    141. Jack Murphy says:

      PS.I forgot to give their Main Page a mention:

    142. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Thepnr: as Liz g said, there was no “democracy” which included the common people in those days. Even in WW1, many soldiers were not able to vote until electoral reform in 1918 which removed the property qualification.

      The Union would never have happened if the common folk had been consulted, hence the widespread rioting in Scotland once news got out.

      The people do get a mention in this 1309/10 declaration of the clergy in favour of King Robert I. BDTT provided a link to this a while ago.

      The cleric who wrote it would have been hammered if The Rev had been around.

    143. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 24 June, 2018 at 12:44 pm:

      “… There is no mention of people and my take is that they are talking of themselves, the nobility and signatories of the declaration.”

      Not so, Thepnr, for all of the Scottish landed gentry were members of the Assembly/parliament. True that they were not elected for not everyone had the franchise and the Monarch called the assemblies but that was the way of things and expanding the franchise is an on-going matter even today.

      Just as the, “Education Act, 13 June 1496”, only applied to the sons, (not the daughters), of the landed gentry :-

      Item, it is statute and ordanit throw all the realme that all barronis and frehaldaris that ar of substance put thair eldest sonnis and airis to the sculis fra thai be aucht or nyne yeiris of age, and till remane at the grammer sculis quhill thai be competentlie foundit and have perfite Latyne, and thaireftir to remane thre yeris at the sculis of art and jure, sua that thai may have knawlege and understanding of the lawis, throw the quhilkis justice may reigne universalie throw all the realme, sua that thai that ar schireffis or jugeis ordinaris under the kingis hienes may have knawlege to do justice, that the pure pepill sulde have na need to seik oure soverane lordis principale auditouris for ilk small injure. And quhat baroune or frehaldar of substance that haldis nocht his sone at the sculis, as said is, haifand na lauchful essonze bot failyeis heirin, fra knawlege may be gotten thairof, he sall pay to the king the soume of xx.”

      As the franchise is granted to new groups then so is the legal sovereignty of those gaining the franchise extended to the newly enfranchised.

      ” … Put it this way, if the people of Scotland were sovereign how was it possible for the nobles to agree a Union with England in 1707 despite there being riots in the streets by the people?”

      Because it wasn’t the nobles that signed away Scotland’s birth-right, it was the Parliamentarians. While all the nobles were enfranchised not all the nobles were parliamentarians.

      Put it this way while the King/Queen of Scots held court in Scotland and presided over that court things were reasonable but after Jamie Saxt upped stakes and took his court, lock, stock and barrel to Westminster those nobles remaining were out of control.

      Really we cannot blame James VI for heading south for there he was a sovereign monarch over the three countries of the Kingdom of England but didn’t have legal sovereignty in the Kingdom of Scotland.

      He spent the rest of his reign trying to form a United Kingdom – and failing to do so. The result of that was the English, “Glorious Revolution”, and Westminster deposing their rightful monarchy then inviting King Billy & Queen Mary to be monarchs of the Kingdom of England – the problem, for Scotland, was Westminster illegally applied their decisions upon the still independent Scotland and began what they wrongly call, (even today), The Jacobite rebellion.

      However, as you cannot rebel against a monarchy/parliament not your own the Jacobites were actually fighting to retain their legal monarchy. It was/is all part of the Westminster brainwashing that still goes on today.

      In point of fact the people were rioting in the streets because they had not been brainwashed to accept the Westminster propaganda. They didn’t have radio, TV and the SMSM back then and most of them probably couldn’t read or write.

    144. Smallaxe says:

      This comment is also not for the arsehole at 10:26.

      We had a great day yesterday surrounded by a marvellous crowd of people. Making money was and is not our main objective, meeting fellow Wingers and other supporters of independence and giving out leaflets with information which may inform and persuade others to join us was.

      Before the marchers had even arrived at Bannockburn a lone piper walked and played his pipes around the statue of The Bruce and it brought a tear to many an eye including my own.

      I see some comments about certain banners that were being carried, I will mention only one which may surprise some of you, that banner was ‘Larkhall For Yes’.

      There was no battle at Bannockburn yesterday, our fight is not with the English in the 21st century, it is for fairness and freedom for all who have made Scotland their home.

      Peace Love and thank you, to everyone who attended in person and to the thousands who were with us in spirit.

      Independence is on the horizon, my friends. Keep spreading the word.

    145. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – it is actually the paragraph above where they mention the people – and not just the nobles, otherwise they could have said “nobles”:

      He, that his people and his heritage might be delivered out of the hands of our enemies, bore cheerfully toil and fatigue, hunger and peril, like another Maccabaeus or Joshua. Him, too, divine providence, the succession to his right according to our laws and customs which we shall maintain to the death, and the due consent and assent of
      us all have made our prince and king. To him, as to the man by whom salvation has been wrought unto our people, we are bound both by his right and by his merits that our freedom may be still maintained, and by him, come what may, we mean to stand.

    146. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 24 June, 2018 at 1:36 pm:

      ” … I guess that I associate sovereignty with pure unadulterated democracy.”

      That is your big mistake then, Thepnr, for sovereignty has nothing much to do with democracy. You are confusing sovereignty with the application of sovereignty.

      Sovereignty was, and still is, the power to rule over and it really never was, “The Divine Right of Kings”. It originated with the strongest guy or girl in the community taking control whether the community liked it or not.

      So as mankind progressed there was the start of the Clan, tribe or whatever they called the extended families, systems throughout the World.

      Then these leaders realised that the common people all worshipped something they called Ged or Gods and used that to advantage by claiming they represented God on Earth.

      So The Divine Right of Kings became sovereign right. As Divine Right of Kings meant a monarch defeated in war became subservient to the winner kingdoms/Empires or whatever began to get bigger and fewer, resulting in the idea that the Kingdom was sovereign.

      However, in Britain we ended up with just two kingdoms but the fly in the ointment was that Scotland, (as usual), was way ahead of the game and had made a real democracy. Note that Bruce did not subjugate any other Kingdom as part of Scotland. His Brother did die attempting to invade Ireland but Ireland had been colonised by the Normans of England and did eventually pass The Crown of Ireland Act to place the Crown of Ireland on the King Of England’s head in 1542 but the King of England had been made Lord of Ireland long before then by the Holt Roman Se.

      So the basic meaning of, “Sovereignty”, is just the person/or persons legally in charge under whatever passes as law in any particular set-up and rhat includes dictatorships.

      The sovereign people have to be asked the question otherwise how else would you know what there will is?

      By the way murky or not we should keep on asserting our sovereignty.

    147. twathater says:

      I agree with thepnr re the ar***ole, Ronnie and helpers the unending and tireless work you and others do in promoting Scotland ‘s undying efforts to rid itself of the destructive and neverending lie of the treaty of union will never be repaid , the mileage travelled and the organisational requirements must be exhausting , but many others like myself thank you and your fellow true Scots patriots graciously from our hearts

      Rob P I agree with your disection of the AUOB marches , it is the tory government aided by labstentionists and lib dummies who have and are creating misery for Scots why wouldn’t people shout for their removal , I know people are concerned that we will maybe antagonise tory supporters against independence , but the reality is , it is the party they support that is against independence and is doing everything in its power to block it and neuter the SP . So IMO they have a choice , ignore the chants and support independence for a better country , or feel maligned and vote for a shower of proven incompetents and the status quo

    148. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I’m going to add my ha’porth to the “Tory, out” chant debate. I believe it’s very definitely counter-productive, not only because (as others have mentioned) it could well deter potential converts who are not diehard SWP’ers (an extreme minority breed anyway), but also because it’s a negative retro throwback to the 80’s not in the least positive and forward-looking, and (most of all) it feeds the impression that BritNats like to foster that indy supporters are intolerant and unforgiving. Which is not (the vast majority of) us at all.

      It’s not as if Labour or the coalition-hungry FibDems offer us any more hope, is it? Westminster and all its doings, Lib and Lab just as much as Tory, which is the monkey on our backs. So the common rallying chant should surely be “LONDON OUT”.

      That’s what every single one of us believes, isn’t it?

    149. Bill McLean says:

      Robert J. Sutherland at 5.10pm. Agree wholeheartedly. Someone on this site, can’t think who at the moment, often remarks that we should not interrupt the enemy while they are making mistakes – I see these banners and the chants as “making mistakes”. Unionists must love it when they see us doing this sort of thing. Our cause is just and noble why spoil it with childish behaviour which may deter those on the cusp!

    150. Confused says:

      re: tory scum banner at AUOB …
      While tories ARE cunts/scum – it’s not useful or relevant to use that when INDY campaigning – for reasons expounded ad nauseam by the Rev.

      An independent Scotland may eventually have an indigenous “right wing party” (economically or socially) but it won’t be called “conservative”.

      Back in 2014 the Daily Telegraph weekend magazine had a long article on Scottish Nationalists – I read it out of curiosity (- it’s the DT FFS!)

      What was interesting was that while they had dragged up the “usual suspects” they could simply dismiss – “disgruntled trots”, “trendy lefties”, “mad braveheart geezer” – with the implication that it thus “could never ever work” – they also had a hedge fund guy living in Monaco, plus the Duke and Duchess of Hamilton … !

      The DT has an inbuilt “cringe” towards wealth, either the new money and its managers or old money, the aristocrats – so while it wants to rubbish independence, its “class cringe” cannot allow itself to attack these people … thus they got allowed their say, at length, and were reported HONESTLY.

      – the Hedge Fund guy argued for Scottish Indpendence from PURE free market principles – he foresaw indy Scotland as being like Singapore.

      – the Hamiltons were TBH a bit “rabid” and even MILITANT about how awful the union was and how it was imperative to get out. The historical irony of all this was probably lost on the reporter.

      I am not one for bothering too much about what your -enemies- say about you, or trying to “look good” in a hostile medium – but getting something positive about independence in a rightwing rag from a hedge fund free marketeer and an aristo – this was pure gold.

      Among the HARD-NO group we have an unreachable gang of bigots of little worth or consideration – but we also have the “brains” of the outfit – the anglo-financier class based around Edinburgh – these people are unionist from the enirely RATIONAL perspective that it has been very good for them financially – they made out like bandits.

      While Billy1690NoSurrender [at] hotmail [dot] com is a true believer, the anglo-financier is entirely venal – if he sees the UK as going down the shitter, helped by brexit and lack of access to european markets – he may start to see indy Scotland as a better bet, financially. (Imagine managing a sovereign wealth fund of several trillion … picture – homer simpson thinking about food)

      You could drive a wedge between these two Hard-NO groupings – when the orange thugs are no longer useful, they will be cut adrift. The anglo-financier privately loathes the orangeman – it is noticeable how the “marching season” hardly exists in the east – they just won’t put up with that shit, not that the place lacks freemasons.

      Finding even small support in peculiar places might just make the difference, next time round.

    151. Breeks says:

      Thepnr says:
      24 June, 2018 at 1:36 pm

      Thanks for the reply, it helps though doesn’t yet clear things up totally for me. I guess that I associate sovereignty with pure unadulterated democracy.

      The sovereign people have to be asked the question otherwise how else would you know what there will is?

      By the way murky or not we should keep on asserting our sovereignty.

      You don’t have to know what their will is to still be sovereign. If we’d voted YES in 2014, it would have been a Sovereign YES, but we voted No, but that NO was still a sovereign No. The ONLY reason Scotland stayed in the Union was Scotland’s Sovereign choice to do it.

      Vote NO if we must, but FFS defend the essential principle of Sovereignty or all is lost.

      I think it is desperately poor that in such an extended campaign for Scottish Independence that we still have such a foggy and ambiguous take on what our Constitutional status is, and what it should be.

      What makes the Germans the Germans, and the French the French, is NOT whether they lean to left or the right politically, what currency they use, or what flag they fly, but Sovereignty, – that realm of German or French affairs which is nobodies business but theirs.

      If Scotland was a normal Sovereign Nation, then our Brexit vote would have been the end of the matter, an unequivocal decision to remain in the EU. End of story. Nobody overruling our decision. The ONLY reason our Remain mandate is not being respected is because Westminster has presumed it can overrule Scottish Sovereignty with its own “Parliamentary Sovereignty”.

      The whole issue of Brexit is a tragedy unfolding for Scotland, but if we can get our Constitutional Sovereignty clarified, and recognised, then Westminsters Constitutional capacity to overrule the will of the Scottish people instantly crumbles to dust.

      Brexit is not about Europe. Brexit is an unconstitutional outrage, an assault upon our sovereignty, and the subjugation of Scotland to the will of a foreign power. That’s either acceptable, or it’s not. It is a binary issue, like Sovereignty itself.

      If we the people of Scotland are sovereign, then it means Westminster is not, and cannot be Sovereign, and thus Westminster’s plans to have Scotland expelled from Europe have no Constitutional competence, legitimacy or authority, because Westminster does NOT speak for Scotland.

      We don’t have to vote on that. We already did, in 2016. So the question for Westminster over Scotland’ Brexit is “on who’s authority” are they acting?

      If everybody in Scotland, not just Yessers and AUOB marchers, but everybody, including our Unionists, even our BBC pundits, if we all saw Scottish Independence as a binary Constitutional battle over Sovereignty, we Yessers would know that our victory was inevitable, and our Unionist adversaries would equally understand that Unionism was unsustainable and untenable. We would go into “battle” knowing the result in advance.

      That is the clarity and realism we need to establish in the minds of all Scots, both for Independence and against it. It’s an awareness of the reality which fortifies the will in a Yesser, but which will also steadily erode the faith in a No voter. Whether you love it or hate it, the Law says the people of Scotland are sovereign, and sovereign we remain until death.

      Scotland, sovereign. Westminster NOT sovereign.

      Scotland Sovereignty GOOD. Westminster Sovereignty BAD.

      It is not about democracy. Yes, there’s a time and a place for democracy, but if democracy was a sacred principle, your kids could overrule you and decide when you go to bed. A little bit of household Sovereignty that can’t be overruled helps keep the peace.

    152. A. Graham says:

      It is quite a surprise to find that Willie Rennie is still around.

    153. Cubby says:

      Ronnie Anderson 11.47 pm

      The mug was boxed and it was in fine condition. Thanks for the wings badges.

    154. Cubby says:

      Robert Peffers 12.50am

      Bloody hell. You were a union rep. I wouldn’t have liked to be the manager negotiating with you. ??

    155. Cactus says:

      Good to meet with yous again BillWemyss, crackin’ day!

      It feels good to be a reader and a poster.

      See ye at the next march.

      Keep posting. 🙂

    156. Gary says:

      I have mixed feelings about this one.

      Carmichael eventually had to admit that he was a liar and, logically speaking, it became obvious that he had abused his office to lie and to try and affect the outcome of an election. This all came out at the trial, with him getting off with it, essentially, because it’s okay for politicians to deliberately lie to the public to try and sway results using their public office to so. He should have been sacked and should never have stood again with the shame he brought to politics.

      We also had the SNP MSP who was accused of prolonged domestic violence against his wife and daughter. He was on criminal charges, which he denied. They called for his resignation but, rightly in my opinion, the leadership backed him and would not sack him either stating that they should wait for the outcome of the investigation and trial. And as soon as he was found guilty – he was gone.

      In THIS case I do think he should not stand again. As to him resigning, it really depends on the severity of what he has done. He has, at least admitted it instead of calling the women in question liars, that’s something I suppose.

      But we don’t know what he’s done, and neither does Willie Rennie either. He’s trying to make political mileage out of it. I imagine there’s no coincidence in the fact that this comes hot on the heels of the TV show about Jeremy Thorpe and the possible reopening of the investigation in regard to the gunman in that case.

      It would be nice if politicians, just for ONCE, did things out of GENUINE concern for others instead of just point scoring.

      However, it has been some time since the admissions and his resignation from cabinet, apart from Rennie’s point scoring I don’t think there is any appetite nor need to have an early by election which would see the new MSP only sitting for less than 18 months, especially not when this is avoidable..

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