Alistair Darling was angry last week, as he was awake. In a tetchy interview with the BBC’s Good Morning Scotland he insisted that “there is no political party in the United Kingdom at the moment that could get away with destroying the NHS”.
He went on to rubbish the idea that the English service was being privatised by the Conservative-led government, and accused the SNP of scaremongering over the issue for opportunistic political gain. So we thought we’d see if we could find anyone else who thought the NHS was in danger of privatisation and destruction.
“The NHS can’t carry on like this. It is heading for the rocks.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, July 2014.
“Four years ago this month, Andrew Lansley published his ‘Liberating the NHS’ White Paper. I can remember the shock I felt when I turned through its pages.
Just weeks before, I had spoken alongside Lansley at many hustings events and heard him promise no top-down re-organisation. And then this – the biggest bombshell ever to land on the NHS.
He had clearly been drawing up these plans in Opposition, with the help of the private health care company which funded his office, but chose not to tell the voters.
When they hit the light of day, the problem wasn’t just the danger of a distracting reorganisation when the NHS should have been focusing on the financial challenge – and all the inherent risks to patient care.
What was more breathtaking was the sheer audacity of the plan to treat the NHS as another utility to be broken up and privatised.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, July 2014.
“In a barnstorming speech, greeted by whoops and cheers, to party delegates at Labour’s annual conference, Andy Burnham said that the Tory-led coalition’s health reforms had placed the NHS on a fast-track to fragmentation and privatisation and that the legislation had to go.
Internally there has been a debate within the party about whether these populist measures could be easily implemented.
Critics point out that Tory and Liberal Democrat peers will control the Lords and would almost certainly block attempts to roll back dramatically a key coalition policy – especially if Labour ended up seeking Nick Clegg’s support to run the country.”
– The Guardian, September 2013.
“David Cameron’s biggest mistake by far is his decision to break the Coalition Agreement promise of ‘no top-down re-organisation of the NHS’. He is the prime minister who put the NHS up for sale without first seeking the permission of the British public.’
David Cameron’s re-organisation has left the NHS, in the words of its former chief executive, ‘bogged down in a morass of competition law. If we leave things as they are, the NHS as we have known it for 66 years will not survive.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, June 2014.
“I am introducing this Bill because we need to save the NHS. When out and about meeting my constituents time and again they tell me how worried they are about the privatisation of our NHS.’
‘And of course my constituents are right to be worried because our NHS – the service which is there for us from when we enter the world to when we come to leave it – is being shamelessly dismantled before our eyes.”
– Clive Efford, Labour MP for Eltham, June 2014.
“Cameron’s reorganisation is giving private firms the green light to cherry-pick services.
This arrogant PM needs to be reminded he has never been given the public’s permission to put their NHS up for sale.
If he is not stopped, the NHS will be broken up.
That’s why the choice on the NHS at next year’s election is as stark as ever: a public service under Labour or a privatised utility under the Tories.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, February 2014.
“Get ready for the next scandal – NHS hospitals, pushed by Mr Cameron to earn half their income from private patients, charging for beds left empty by these new restrictions.
Think about that – NHS hospitals, built with public money, charging people for treatments that used to be free and (are) still free to people living elsewhere. NHS staff turned over to priority care of those who can pay or are in such pain they have to dig deep.
Suffer or pay – the same old choice in a two-tier Tory NHS. We’ve got to wake people up to what is happening now. These are the first steps towards an American healthcare system, (with) English hospitals now asking for credit cards before they give care.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, September 2013.
“US health-care companies will be able to say to an NHS clinical commissioning group: ‘We have a legal right to bid for that service.’ Dragging the NHS down that path will destroy it, it will devour what’s precious about the NHS.
All the legal advice I am getting says, while we will just about be able to pull it back at the 2015 election, after that, it will be gone. That’s the choice voters face.
We were warning [about privatisation] when the Bill was going through. People might have said we were scaremongering. But here we are: the Competition Commission is intervening, for the first time, in the NHS, to block the sensible collaboration between two NHS hospitals. They can no longer deny it, it’s absolutely clear.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, August 2014.
“Be warned – Cameron’s Great NHS Carve-Up is coming to your community. A forced privatisation, ordered from the top, and a secret privatisation – details hidden under ‘commercial confidentiality’ – but exposed today.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, October 2012.
“David Cameron and Nick Clegg have both failed to respond to repeated requests to call for an exemption for the NHS from the emerging EU-US trade Treaty. Presumably this is because, as it stands, it supports the government’s policy of opening up the health service to greater privatisation. In fact, it could make it unstoppable.”
– Andy Burnham, Labour shadow health secretary, April 2014.
Well, we’re reassured now. Those darned Nats, eh?
Let’s see if AD starts answering Alex’s questions about this (remember and ask this time Alex please)
Alistair Darling will muster all his energy to support David Cameron’s government.
“Alistair Darling was angry last week, as he was awake” I would question the belief that he does not have angry dreams.
I’ve just heard from an impeccable source that Andy Burnham is voting yes.
Alistair Darling blinks so much he doesn’t need sleep.
That would be Andy ‘let’s get health policies that can be consistent across England, Scotland and Wales’ Burnham.
Darling has this “high and mighty” approach to debating which i find so annoying. He never tires of saying he was treasurer of the UK, and never fails to absolve himself of all wrong doings. He’s a liar who has offered, and can offer, nothing to Scotland. He says he loves Scotland but what he really loves is “his” Scotland. He loves his messed-up Labour Scotland that he took a big crap on. He loves himself basically. The reason he gets riled up is that he see’s any opposition to Darlings Scotland as an attack on him. He, Brown, Lamont and the rest have built their own Scotland of misery, and they just love the company they keep.
I’m just wondering if their left hand knows there is a right, never mind knows what its up to?
Excellent ferreting.
You tell ’em, Andy Burnham!
It’s a serious problem Labour have, they would like to tell one story in Scotland for the referendum and another in England for the general election. It just isn’t going to work, is it?
All those “I’m all right Jack” No voters who won’t be able to get private health insurance – too old, or pre-existing conditions. Well, they’ll have voted for it.
The pensioners Brown has scared into voting No, nicely distracted from what WM is planning for the Scottish NHS. Well, they’ll have voted for it.
Darling has evolved a circumlocutory pattern of answering questions, always an attempt to bring the question around to the ‘critical currency issue that has the Scottish government in disarry, and the SNP’s lack of a Plan B’ – the one from outer space.
He keeps talking, snapping and yapping to reduce the number of questions the interviewer can put to him.
However, the more he goes around in circles, the more he attempts to obfuscate, muddying the water, the less people understand what the hell he is talking about.
In any event, what faith can people place in this man who assisted in the destruction of the United Kingdom’s economy, and helped to impose the disaster of austerity on us all so that crooked banksters can continue prospering??
You just wonder when some feckless Scottish journalist is going to have the gumption to challenge Darling properly on this.
‘How many Scottish journo’s does it take to change a lightbulb ?’
‘Better ask Flipper’
Pretty stark warnings from this Burnham guy – must be one of those Radical Independence loonies. Ridiculous, preposterous scaremongering. Wait … no, those attributions have to be wrong, they say he’s … oh.
Cross-border Transmogrification Vortex strikes again.
Ed Milliband said the same to an audience of trade union officials
Darling’s lies laid out for all to see. Only the MSM/No campaign have no intention of telling the truth to the people of Scotland. This is all about self preservation, whether by Darling and the rest of the unionist politicians, by the MSM, or the wider British establishment.
We have surely now reached the equivalent stage of the most blatant Pravada-esque style reporting, like in the old Soviet Union, where the media refuse to acknowledge the obvious, which is that the NHS in England is being privatised. It is very strange to be living in Scotland at the present moment. There is a massive disconnect between the reality of the political situation in the UK, and what the MSM/No campaign are saying. It is really is quite an eerie feeling. No doubt it will be Salmond who is abused the most tonight, when it really should be that ("Tractor" - Ed) to social democratic values and principles, Flipper Darling. The guy is a utter, utter disgrace. I don’t know how Darling can live with himself, he has no morals or principles.
I’m hoping Scotland will be able to negotiate an opt out of TTIP for the NHS during the EU membership negotiations.
If it isn’t too late…
Alistair Darling is a lier. He is fighting for his pay check, 1/4 of a £million he earned this year from talks with big business es ???
Who do you know that makes that kind of money??? Now wonder he is fighting tooth and nail to keep the union. Becouse if its a yes win he is booted put of Westminster. And thete goes his pay check 1/4 £ million a year, ps not bad for a cheating house flipping expenses cheating scumbag.
@muttley79
Spot on with your 2nd para. Folk outside the UK learn more from their media about what goes on here than we do from our own media.
I Love this site. More of Darlings lies debunked.
Here’s the better together strategy for Labour;
1. In England scream and shout and fight about the privatisation of ‘our’ NHS by those dastardly Tories.
2. In Scotland deny the NHS in England is being privatised, and in fact everything in the English NHS is just hunky dory. Stand side by side and campaign together with the Tories.
3. ‘Scottish’ media, and the ever helpful BBC told to keep quiet about the clear lies and hypocrisy from Labour until the referendum is over.
Let’s wait and see if Glenn Campbell calls Darling out on this hypocrisy.
@tartanfever
The MSM have no intention of pulling up Darling on his lies. They are as corrupt as you can get. They know fine well the NHS in England is being privatised. This is a mighty power we are up against, forget all you have been told about a free press. This lot are in complete thrall to the British state.
Ian Taylor,
The plan is to put the NHS protection into the written Scottish constitution, to keep it in public ownership.
I wonder if he will be wearing his special specs again? I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that they hide his blinking eyebrows.
juteman
re: the glasses
bone conduction technology, so his phalanx of Tory spin doctors can tell him what to say.
Well plenty mps and lords have vested interest in privatising the NHS.
link to socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk
I am sure there isn’t any other country in the EU where the media and main TV stations let politicians get away with so many blatant lies.
The UK is an utter disgrace and we MUST get out of it on 18th September.
When is the debate starting and can you watch on the internet?
Alistair Darling is an embarrassment to my nation!
How can he and Brown show their faces in Scotland?
@pete
ps not bad for a cheating house flipping expenses cheating scumbag.
Succinct, tells it like it is, and to the point sentiment, which you will never read or hear about in our corrupt MSM.
Alistair “Flipper” Darling is fighting to save his career & his lavish, tax payer funded, lifestyle.
This champagne socialist raked in over £400,000 in the last two years from his MP’s salary, book deals & speeches.
And since he resigned from the Faculty of Advocates to prevent them investigating his expense abuse, his generous remuneration package is going to shrink faster than an Eskimos erection.
@GH Graham
Alistair “Flipper” Darling is fighting to save his career & his lavish, tax payer funded, lifestyle.
This champagne socialist raked in over £400,000 in the last two years from his MP’s salary, book deals & speeches.
And since he resigned from the Faculty of Advocates to prevent them investigating his expense abuse, his generous remuneration package is going to shrink faster than an Eskimos erection.
This^^ x 1 billion, trillion. If No wins then all of Scotland will be fucked, that much is crystal clear.
I was always told that you can tell someone is lying if they blink an unusual amount. So Darling is a champion liar!
@Robert Louis.
Nah, I reckon they have miniature syringes fitted to them that continuously feed Novocaine into his eyebrows.
Jim Sillars has placed an ad in today’s Record challenging Darling – you can read it via the link to this fundraising appeal.
link to indiegogo.com
link to youtube.com
flipper darling……..the demon head master
Your not being fair. It has always been Labour policy to express different views for English and Scottish voters.
The Scottish voters are too stupid to notice this!
Perhaps not anymore?
He’s mixed up with what one of his two brain cells is in control.. Obviously the more clueless of the two is clearly at the wheel on this spectacular Head in the Sand denial that the NHS is being Privatised.
Go on yir’sel Ally..
@ Juteman and Robert Louis
link to tinyurl.com
Recognise them ?
Even Ed Miliband agrees: link to youtube.com
“his generous remuneration package is going to shrink faster than an Eskimos erection.”
I presume your talking of a igloo in a heatwave?
When is the debate starting and can you watch it on the internet?
@Bugger.
I hope somebody from the Yes side has a Bluetooth jammer!
@muttley
re the debate….
link to twitter.com
Clottie is right the Scottish electorate are too stupid to get the subtle politic( exception of Wings followers) Scottish Labour have been telling huge porkies for years and MSM just repeat them verbatim .tonight Alex Salmond will continue with his “gentile” debate because that is what the SNP policy strategists think is the correct posture. The debate will be called a draw regardless. But the MSM will gloat and crucify Salmond ( and the Yes campaign for turning negative ) or am I just being a wee bit pessimistic ?
Muttley79
20:30
Web Link: link to t.co
@muttley79
link to twitter.com
Cheers.
Grouse beater darling may be an embarrassasment to your nation but not to his own England
Vote yes
Meanwhile, BBC with the gloves and mask off: ‘Let Maxine decide’ at 1.30pm today on Radio Scotland…..What gibberish is this…some poor ‘small business’ dupe who needs ‘facts’ not ‘uncertainty’.
Maxine?( who she?) decides to help said dupe re. ‘Plan B’ …get the picture folks?…and consults ‘independent financial experts’…Jo Armstrong and David Bell.
Well they are as ‘independent’ as Alistair Darling. Paid BT naysayers, long in the BBC stable of pet mouthpieces.
And guess what ensued?…the usual one-sided guff by these two ‘experts’. No surprise there then. Although I always thought that a ‘financial expert’ had to consider both sides of a balance sheet…obviously in the world of the Better together that basic approach has been discarded.
However, the bare faced effrontery of charade ‘need to know’ puffs like this are really staggering when you consider it.
As Prof. John Robertson concluded the BBC strategy is shit sandwiches in reversal (my paraphrase) i.e. yes stuff surrounded in a double wrapper of ‘No’ lies.
We truly are living through an onslaught of British State propaganda on an industrial scale being force fed on the Scottish people.
Someday soon the truth of this affront to democracy must be made known to the world. British ‘fair play’ and ‘decency’ must be revealed to the world as the utter sham that it really is.
Please make it the beginning of that revelation tonight!
Just hope we have some Wingers in the audience to report back how it ” actually ” went – BBC and trust have vanished quicker than that wee Eskimo’s erection
If tonight becomes a bbc stitch up then I would like a full frontal assault on them by all pro-indy sites, particularly Wings
For anyone else who’s abroad, the live stream is available here:
link to bbc.com
Alternatively, or if the stream fails, it’s on BBC MW, although I’m not sure if it’s possible to get MW live online.
It also seems to be available on STV player, although it might not be available aborad:
link to player.stv.tv
And this from the BBC live feed:
“For tonight’s debate we’re in Aberdeen to get reaction from nine voters – three voting “Yes”, three “No” and three who are still undecided.”
It will be interesting to see if the undecideds are actually undecided, or if they’re “Alex Massie” undecided.
I really have a massive ‘meh’ in relation to the sham tonight.
Even if Darling’s head were to explode in a perplexed blink overload, he will be declared the winner.
Like the last time, Blinky will not answer a single question yet be crowned the winner because he pointed, went red and shouted.
No matter what happens, Darling wins and the “final nail in salmond’s indy coffin” has been hammered home…..Zzzzzzzz…..
Yet Jackie Birdbrain sneeringly told Alex Salmond on national television that the NHS in England was NOT being privatised. Don`t expect too much from Pravda!
@Lochside
Radio 5 Live at 13:45 was even worse, interviewed 3 old English women who stay on a village at the border. Cue them being scared about not being able to visit the hospital on the Scottish side or how will the village shop deal with different currency.
The interviewer then finished with “They sadly dont have a vote” and the presenter in studio said “Cant we have them on every day….now for more on this Bank Holiday…”
click!
Of course, Darling will just come back with the cobblers that the only person that can privatise the NHS in Scotland is Alex Salmond. Which is cobblers of course and entirely misses the point.
In addition to the coming austerity cuts, every Westminster unionist party has their sight set on scrapping Barnett after a No vote which will slash Scotland’s block grant by £billions each year. This draconian cut will indeed bring our NHS to its knees and do not kid yourself otherwise.
“The Scottish Govt can ring-fence the NHS budget” you say. Okay–so now there is less for other services like education. How do we train our nurses and doctors when we have to slash our education budget? Will this not adversely affect our NHS? So we ring-fence the education budget as well, you say. Okay–so now there is even less for other services like free prescriptions and care of our elderly. What do we do then when the NHS is overwhelmed by the vast increase of sick people unable to afford their medicine or have become ill out of neglect? Do we then increase the NHS budget and ring-fence it? So how much then is left for education, elderly, care, childcare, etc, etc? And around we go until there is nothing left for any other service.
The reality is the NHS budget WILL have to be slashed along with other budgets. Tax will not be increased in Scotland because to do so would only result in an exodus of people (including doctors and nurses) out of Scotland to the lower rUK tax regime.
Westminster cuts will devastate our NHS in Scotland and it will not be safe simply because it is devolved. Just ask Andy Burnham, Mr Darling.
@Lochside
Agree about the complete bias of ‘Let Maxine Decide’ on Radio Scotland.
It would be perfectly possible to be balanced, not by pretending you can find an independent expert but by having two from each side – e.g. having Jim and Margaret Cuthbert to balance out Jo Armstrong and David Bell.
If those making such programmes at the BBC think it is their job to be biased then that is their business but it is a real shame for democracy.
And democracy is ultimately what we depend on – the ability and willingness to openly and responsively work together for common goals – far more than any particular resource, institution or asset.
Darling clutching a red folder as he enters the debate venue–‘This Is Your Lies’ right enough.
Perhaps Alex should ask flipper about the UK national debt:
The Interest bill on the UK’s £1.27 trillion debt to hit £1bn a week
Although the above was when the UK debt was £1.27 trillion it has now passed the £1.4 trillion.
It now stands at an eye watering £1,415,547,000,000 and climbing by £5,170 per second.
Some of you might have seen the programme last week that guy with huge testicles in Las Vegas. Anyway in the early days of his condition he could have got help out-of-state but because he didn’t have health insurance all he could get was treatment in his home State, Nevada. Then decent people got to hear and sent him money so that he could pay for treatment but social security got to hear of these charitable donations and treated it as income and stopped his social security. Sound familiar but this is what people will face here if the vote’no’. The warnings are all there but you know what they say you can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
Auld Rock
Well.
I nominate Alistair Darling for the face in the deep fat fyer challenge.
Mon eck , git right intae the barsteward!!!!
This will be rather scary for the No’s;
link to youtube.com
IcySpark: at 7:11 pm
Aye but Neil Findley does not see it that way and is pedalling crap to support his view:
Labour MSP says Tories are protecting NHS funding.
So we’re all expecting a Darling victory eh?
Oh ye of little faith. Wee Eck knows what’s required and he learned a lesson last time, and still swung the D/K’s.
I’m sure tonight will be a different debate, even with the BBC NO plants.
“If not us – who? if not now – when?”
Found this on Yes Moffat site, at first I thought ”what the hell” but then……….
link to facebook.com
@Roll on 2014
Neil Findlay, SLAB MSP, the great Scottish socialist, backs Tory rule in Scotland? Surely some mistake….
Darling took all of eight seconds to mention plan B.
Cu… Cu… Cu… Currency….
Does Darling secretly aspire to be David Bowie?
Great opening speech by Salmond, factual, positive and inspiring. Darling, straight into the doom and gloom, what a sad, sad excuse for a man..
That was a braw video, Marcia. Thanks for sharing it. Things like that help keep the spirits up.
Goodness! Darling did not come across as very likeable in his opening speech.
I thought Salmond tackling currency directly in the first question was great. Let’s see what happens with oil…
oil is bad for us,darling
walofs
@ James Caithness – the page used to be called “Better Together St Kilda”.
Salmond performing better
gggggggggggggggggggggooooooooooooooo ECKY
darlin is losing it
Darling really is a chancer of a man.
Alex Salmond – Nice Guy….please end this tactic and go for Darling….relying on Glenn Campbell is hapless!
And what about the other Oil areas?
Alex need to keep this up… he is destroying Darling.
I cant watch this anymore….so far it seems Darling gets 3 times the talk and 5 times the interuptions
Sadly Im not surprised but do feel Alex should get the sleeves rolled up, time and a place and all that
That and Im scared of Darlings “strangle hands”
It was Tory Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, who first thought of a One Nation Britain. A Britain where the aristocracy and the capitalists join forces to prevent growing demands for social justice undermining their position of privilege. This was not long after the French revolution and the capitalist classes were kacking themselves. As such, Disraeli can be seen as the grandfather of both Zionism and fascism. Critical to the success of One Nation Britain, would be the recruitment of working class leaders to do the ruling elite’s dirty work.
Did Disreali have precognition?
That’ll be the pound then. As it always has been.
I think referring to Salmond as ‘He’ when he is standing right next to him, just makes him look rude.
If woman voters are the main target, then I suspect Darling just looks like a prick.
Blinky says we can use the pound. Wahey.
Someone elses currency?
Eh Darling?
“If woman voters are the main target, then I suspect Darling just looks like a prick.”
I wouldn’t use such strong words but yes. I didn’t think he came across well in the first debate and is coming across even worse at the moment.
Salmond on fire. Amazing – stays polite and respectful and yet still manages to destroy his rude opponent. The women will love him!
Darling is getting more and more angry!
Ah… he is back to the CD collection… dreaming of Bowie again.
Darling is overcooking the currency thing… people will be realising that it is all he has.
Caron Lindsay removes her mouth from Nick Clegg only to give Darling a good licking. A more revolting example of the libdems does not exist this side of Lord Rennard. Can’t bring herself to say anything positive about the FM or negative about the ranting old drunken Londoner.
woman roasted darling
love the bbc
Well said that lady!
He`s in denial about the health service in Wales!Losing it big time tonight!
That lady didn’t miss Darling and hit the wall did she.
Labour MPs on the boards of private health providers, a point well made.
Just back in from leafleting for Yes to see Darling roasted alive on the NHS.
ROFL
Fucking superb.
Darling looks like he is going to have a nervous breakdown!
Better together!
Poll tax first in Scotland
Bedroom tax and the SG have to cough up to get the Scottish chestnuts out off the fire.
Aye ‘better together’.
twitter
no camp saying bbc is bias
Salmond winning
Campbells getting a bit panicky as more questions that he knows Blinky can’t answer come thick and fast.
I swear I heard Blinky doing a little whimper at one point. I wasn’t going to watch but I’m loving it so far.
The First Minister is looking cool, calm and collected.Answering well and engaging.
Audience seem to be pro yes so far.
Darling is losing big style.
GLEN Campbell interrupting as usual.
Fire in the belly tonight Alex, thats better.
Alex raising the level just at the right time.
stop the contest
throw in white towel
walofs
Darling lost it all now. The entire audience is laughing at him as he bleats back on the CU issue…
Nothing more sickening than watching a Labour politician defending a Tory government and Tory spending cuts. Alistair Darling what an erse you are.
Labour politician Darling’s party introduced the bedroom tax for private households and the tories adapted it for all types of housing once they got in.
Oh currency again plan ‘B’
Even the crowd have now started to moan at the currency.
AD is losing it by bringing it back to the discussion. Same shit different debate.
AS needs to go on the offensive now.
Is it me or is Darling making a total cunt of himself?
If Darling mentions currency once more the audience will lynch him.
Is Darling drunk? He seems to be swaying about!
This debate shames scotland. Two shouty men, talking over each other and not giving us, the elctorate who pay their wages, any answers. Depressing.
He is interuptting at will now.
What’s the point of asking a question then shouting the answer down. Prick.
Sticking Darlings debt back at him, GOOD.
UK subsidy going into decommisioning?
watch his nose grow.
FM throwing down the Scottish gauntlet! Darling refuses to pick it up.
Oil again, please mention the Atlantic margins FS + West Coast oil.
Currency, currency, currency….. Darling is losing it.
Stop interrupting! IS HE FUCKING SERIOUS!
Gfaetheblock… your horse not winning mate?
Darling had the look of a man who has not slept well for a long time, when interviewed on the BBC the other night. I’m not watching but would imagine AS looks composed.
Juteman says:
“Is Darling drunk? He seems to be swaying about!”
Or the anti-blinky medication?
Blood in the water, the sharks are circling.
Not watching – the twitter feed speaks volumes!
the bbbbbbcc will never spin a Darling win
If they do try they will be laughed at
Wee Eck well done sir
Train crash!
Darling must have hit the bottle. His voice is beginning to slur and he is rocking.
Trident surfaces v NHS tricky for AD.
Remember AD can’t promise any thing he’s not in power or ever likely to be, so no jam tomorrow.
Will IRAQ surface?
Ho! Ho! Ho!
byeee Mr Darling.
Brian mc – I don’t think he is, but salmond is playing to the faithful.
How much are Starbucks and Amazon paying just now Alistair?
Dawn of the shred!
KO for UKOK
Does Alistair Darling always stutter??
I refuse to watch these debates.They serve no purpose.Alistair Darling is in no position to offer a authoritative answer on any question relating to UK policy.
Alex might as well debate the lollipop lady.
AD “Money! Money! Money!”
I suppose he is only protecting his pals and the city.
How are the BBC going to spin this annihilation as a draw?
…Im sure we will get some BBC BS spin to make that case… looking forward to it.
There is no way anybody could possibly challenge who is winning hands down on this debate!
If I was an “undecided” I would be voting a big YES..AD hanging out to dry..stuttering..stammering..losing the plot..audience laughing at him..finish him of .alec…xxx
Darling has lost the audience in the debate and is getting increasing flustered. Eck is on fire and in visionary attack mode. Just what we needed.
HaHa nice to see the predicted
have appeared.
Not the trolling they where expecting to do though eh
Poiny shouty Darling is not interrupted by Glenn Campbell
If this was a boxing match the referee would have stopped it by now.
Currency salience = a tiny 2-5% of scots think it th emost important issue.
Probable turnout for the Independence Referendum = 80%
Turnout for last scottish parliament and general election = 50-63%
So do we think those possible 17-30% of disenfranchised and disillusioned voters in scotland, who don’t bother to vote at Holyrood and General elections, are likely to be convinced we are ‘Better Together?’
Like fuck they do.
It’s just a touch more likely that the reason the Yes campaign is working so hard in the schemes and less affluent parts of scotland is that we know perfectly well that most of these voters are thoroughly pissed of with politics as usual and want to make their voice heard for Yes.
Nor will this mass of voters ever register on opinion polls since they don’t even vote at elections.
P45 for Twitch.
Should be interesting to see if he passes the stringent ATOS assessment.
Is someone prompting AD..he looked across the floor to his right and nodded…xxx
Surely AD is not bringing up the being in NATO chestnut, most NATO counties don’t have nuclear weapons.
Well done AS condemns the UK government for not having made plans.
AS is playing a steady game so far.
Just watching Darling being eviscerated, Darling just can’t debate, LOL. Hurrah.
Auld Rock
Darling slipped there. ‘We have to accept it’. He knows it’s lost already.
Darling simply blown away.
Can’t believe how much I’ve enjoyed this. Darling getting a good kicking !
Blinker still referring to AS as..HE..total ignoramus..AS always calls him by his first name…xxx
Darling slurring and stuttering all over the place.
Piss poor and the No campaign know it so the unoinist press have their work cut out spinning Darling’s annihilation as another ‘triumph’ after tonight.
That was the clincher.
misteralz
Yep caught that and AS has just offered him a job in TeamScotland.Whit?
Team Scotland that was the line of the night!
WHAT a finale from the audience. Darling completely monstered yet again.
This is almost cruel now.
LOL
Alistair Darling is fighting passionately for his job,
bwahahahahahaha
Lying Lib-Dem turd polisher, Caron ( Take me I’m yours Cleggypants) Lindsay says that the mad ranting londoner is wining. So it must be true. As does Danny ( I’ll do it for free) Alexander.
Ooft, a belter to finish with from the woman!!
Hey Joe of course Darling will get a job.Team Scotland will need a boot polisher.
“This is almost cruel now.”
Like picking the wings off a fly!
Its OK Joe,
Alec will need someone to make his tea !
Beginning to wonder if Alex held back last time to make him look even better this time.
AS on fire tonight. Superb.
A clear Salmond win for me.
Darling deflated and goes back to currency.
Says it all.
I see a beaten man
just going by the numbers.
Darling wrote his speech before admitting that Sterling would be used.Major gaff!
gardennat… the though crossed my mind even before tonights debate. Wouldn’t suprise me at all.
Rhona!!!!!!!!!
To me the applause for Darling was more muted that the applause for Salmond.
Currency. Currency. Currency. Currency. Currency. Currency. Currency. Currency. Currency.
You’d think the man had been chancellor or something!
AS casting a wide net after a YES but surely must not be serious in inviting AD onto the negotiating panel.
AD playing the violin here but not tugging at my heart strings. Lets go for it!
Surely a draw says the BBC!
Well played FM.
Great opener and even better closing speech from Alex, Darling chooses to end on the pound which he just agreed we can use anyway!! Oh dear, that was embarrassing Alistair, total fucking car crash,. loved it!!
What’s the snap poll of DKs going to say though?
Aye, score draw right enough
Clearly Darling wrote his closing before listening to the answers. Bet then he never intended to listen anyway
Never watched it, going by comments im wishing i had.
Andrew Sparrow
guardian
calling it for Salmond
Oh that was a win.
Way better performance.
Shame Darling got the last word, but overall he took a hammering.
Nice to see Salmond fighting back.
The audience certainly didn’t like Darling either.
Alec won this hands down..no question..final speeches now and flipper still going on about the currency..after admitting earlier on that..WE CAN USE THE POUND..you were caught out flipper..admit it..now for the headlines tomorrow…xxx
Well done lads and lasses. Saved me £140 and if you could keep it up you’ld have Stu out of a job.
Salmond seemed to be enjoying himself, Darling was squirming. He was visibly taken aback by what was thrown at him.
The Union has become a liability and it was impossible for Darling to sell it in any way.
Had flipper flapping on more than one occasion and well skelped his arse on currency this time round.
And a big well done to the Glasgow audience who refused to listen to his usual flannel .
A salmond win for me tonight, and he probably sneaked it over the two debates, but unsure how the more adversarial tone tonight will play with the undecided and with females? Stage managed wanders to the front of the stage will only do so much to defuse the discomfort of relentless attacks.
Audience seemed skewed to pro yes as well tonight.
Onwards says:
“The audience certainly didn’t like Darling either.”
I got that impression. As the debate when on they seemed to become more anti-Darling.
BBC News in full No campaign spin mode trying to make it all about currency again.
Pitiful stuff. They must realise most people watched this before the news so know perfectly well the BBC are full of shit.
Salmond on form across a whole range of issues. Dahling was clearly all at sea because there is no positive argument for the union. There never was and there never will be.
@galamcennalath
Obviously his prepared speech at the end didn’t take into account flipper’s blooter on currency.
LOL
handclapping
The running commentary was helpful and surprisingly enjoyable.
Rope a Dope,Alec went easy on him last time but stuck it to him tonight in front of a much bigger audience!
Glenn Campbell said at the very start it would be a “game of four halves”. I say this now, Salmond won 4-0.
curtice
Salmond winner
Prof Curtice just said Salmond won the debate.
BBC-‘more evenly shared debate tonight’.Whit!!
Onward
Of course Blinky got the last word. It was the BBC.
Scotlands only professor is on now telling us that Salmond won.
Have I been transported to another planet?
Brian Taylor can’t bring himself to say Salmond won!
Win by T.K.O for Alex Salmond and they still had a half hour to go. The only point I did feel awkward with was the 8,000 jobs that are at risk. I feel it is morally wrong to have nuclear weapons at all and I know those jobs are only here because they wouldn’t want them near a population center in England but these concerns were not adequately addressed by the first minister as these will be real concerns for those employed in that area.
BBC News at ten, The first and prolonged item. They are very concerned about us.
I was also following the twitter feed Paula, thanks.
Darling received a resounding thrashing from Salmond of his feckless, dilatory, spineless philosophy for accepting the venal neo-con policies of Westminster.
Watch out for the press and media trying to portray the debate as nothing but shouting.
Yes is the only democratic choice!
The guy at the end who said he was a No but was totally uninspired by Darling’s lack of positives for the Union, got to hope theres many many thousands of No’s across the country coming to the same conclusion after that and strongly considering switching to Yes.
Salmond did NOT lose the first debate – not at all.
And so it begins
BBC spin has it as a “much more evenly matched contest”
I take it they were watching another channel?
What was Catherine MacLeod watching? Score draw? Em..Em.. Fiddlesticks.
That stupid woman on scotland2014 who was a spad for AD said it was a score draw.
Her name is Catherine MacLeod a complete clown.
There was clearly a swing in the undecideds in the audience to Alex.
Jim,
Removing Trident, then building a brand new Scottish Defence Force will cater for more than 8000 jobs..
This was actually pretty funny.
Kraftwerk have let themselves go. #Indyref #Indydebate pic.twitter.com/xKa8gcti7h
Come on in agent Mcleish and join the winning side!
Kevin Maguire Nats in the audience nasty personally to Darling. Mistake. Repels floating voters #indyref
confirms a Salmond won
We’ll soon see if the panel was in fact venly picked.
The BBC spin on this is ridiculous. For anyone who doesn’t already think they’re biased watch the debate then their analysis.
It was quite enjoyable though to watch Darling squirm and splutter, fluffing his lines frequently like when he said the instead of sharing risks with a population of 5M we could spread those risks with a UK of 63M pounds.
So perhaps people will now understand that AS was deliberately low key to sucker AD in on the last one , particularly on the currency issue.
A tremendous debate led by Salmond all the way.
NHS scare story ? Yea, it is a scary story. AS very clear indeed. Good points re Wales, and obviously read Stu re Andy Burnham.
“Why are you arguing as a Labour politician, Alistair? You are here supporting Better Together, standing with the Tories!”
Kaye Adams on the wireless being her usual abrasive self.
geeo said earlier…
“I really have a massive ‘meh’ in relation to the sham tonight.
Even if Darling’s head were to explode in a perplexed blink overload, he will be declared the winner.
Like the last time, Blinky will not answer a single question yet be crowned the winner because he pointed, went red and shouted.
No matter what happens, Darling wins and the “final nail in salmond’s indy coffin” has been hammered home…..Zzzzzzzz…..”
…………………..
Boom !!!
I am really really crap at predicting stuff…so i will be in charge of oil forecasting from now on..lol
Brian Taylor had to be professional and say Salmond supporters would be the happier.Even Alan Little’s special report could not be edited to show flipper in a good light.
The whole of the UK will now be aware that the First Minister is the best debater in the country.
Tell everyone we will be using the pound.The mandate comment was world class.
I was out a town hall meeting tonight with Angela Constance speaking. It was surprisingly busy given the debate was on the telly. The auditorium has 500 seats and it was well over half full. Not bad for a wee town on a Monday night
Looks like I missed an entertaining debate on the telly. Not that I am convinced TV debates do much. The media were keen to tell us Darling won last time and the Yes vote went up.
That was awesome stuff from Alex Salmond. The Wee Eck we all know and love. The 8 minute cross-examination of Alistair Darling will be cherished by many for a long time. Especially the last 5 mins when he asked Flipper to name 3 job-creating powers Westminster would devolve to Scotland in the event of a Yes vote, and not only could Flipper not mention any, he kept resorting to, “as part of the UK, we’ll have plenty job resources yadda yadda”. It was a trainwreck. I think some newspapers might even force themselves to admit that Salmond planted his boot firmly up Flipper’s quivering arse. The undecideds leaned to Salmond after the weak STV debate so after this barnstormer of a performance, I think we can all reasonably expect a healthy boost for Yes and the gap getting tighter and tighter in the polls. It’s all to play for and Scotland will be an independent nation on 24 March 2016. Hail Alba, brothers and sisters!
I wonder how Carroll, Crichton, Cochrane, Brian Wilson, Peterkin, Gardham will spin this one then?
Catherine Mcleod worked for Alistair Darling so she has an excuse but not for her execrable and frankly infantile offerings in the Herald.
A lot of people in the audience tonight were reduced to uncomfortable silence. That’s the most accurate judgement.
Call Kaye special programme radio Scotland. Some on saying not enough information!
Seems it was a draw after all just a rammy
The currency issue is now a big turn off for voters. Better Together have lost their main argument.
ICM call it for Salmond 71% to 29%.
Kevin McKenna tweets
ICM poll for The Guardian says Salmond ‘easily won debate’
Who is this guy with Gerry on Kaye’s radio show? Was he watching the same debate as the rest of us?
@CM
Jim,
Removing Trident, then building a brand new Scottish Defence Force will cater for more than 8000 jobs..
____________
With respect Alex said it would take 5 and 1 half years to remove trident and Scotland’s Navy would be based there but he didn’t say how many jobs would be created nor whether those 8,000 that are there at the moment would be safe.
It’s not a moot point as it will be a real fear for those involved and he needs to address that fact.
I will be voting yes obviously but I think those employed in that area need that answer.
Mon the wee man, it’s gonna be a YES folks. Yeeeeeeehaaaaar!
bookie from hell
Sarah Smith could hardly bring herself to say the figures of the ICM poll saying ‘around 70%’ for Alex Salmond
The useless vox pop that the media love – it’s cheap, you don’t have to pay a respected long experienced journalist to do proper research and say something insightful.
Off go TV nonenties to ask member of the ‘gullible’ public what they thought. Leading question – ‘Did you think it was shouty?’ Groan!
Anyhow, 70% give Salmond the best of the debate.
Need to keep this momentum going now.All the way try and conversion!
I don’t think a debate between two men, with all the hopes of people on them, is democracy. Its Americanisation of our politics which I sincerely object to! I’m very glad the internet thinks that Alex Salmond has won, but take a step back and ask yourself was this really necessary! I don’t think so!
The only ones to win out of this are the BBBC ! I hate them!
This must be the first time I’ve watched 2014.
Recording Scotland Tonight to compare and contrast.
Aff tae Call Kaye,on radio scotchland(ref special)and send her emails with nothing but HAHAHA and
@Jim…
The MoD has alreay stated that 570 jobs are directly affected by Trident (not 8000). Faslane is a red herring, Scotland will have (and need) a defense force which will be based at Faslane where Scotland’s military budget (as in actually spent in Scotland) will be increased from £1.8bn to £2.5bn per annum with independence. Also the removal of Trident will allow further oil and gas exploration in the Firth of Clyde and Solway Firth which was blocked by the MoD in the early 1980s. Industry analysts already know there is a one-in-five chance of large deposits in these areas (North Sea was one-in-ten).
I cannot believe it is only three weeks until Scotland becomes a real country.
ICM poll 29% Darling and a whopping 71% for Alex Salmond
Crusty Prof Curtis gives the debate to Salmond.
Phew!
Had I not heard his judgement I’d never have known what to think.
Oh lord of the Wingers, I have sinned.
Been working for almost 14 hours today. Got home about 8pm, quick something to eat. Opened up a white wine – Rheingauer Riesling, domain Kloster Eberbach – sat down on the comfy couch AND FELL ASLEEP…
Mea culpa. I missed the it.
Thank god for the Wingers comments and later I’ll check out you tube, bit like match of the day.
Radio Scotland desperatly trying to spin it towards Darling but its not working, Kaye is working hard but still nobody is really believing Darling has won, the phone researchers must be going 100 miles an hour to find people to back the NO campaign.
Its so funny.
The no campaign are grasping at straws following this debate. They actually now seem to be saying that health privatisation is not happening in England.
71% ICM poll AS win debate.
All I can say is well done Alex Salmond and also Glenn Campbell for not letting Alistair Darling get it all his own way.
Darling definately rattled tonight and some good questions from the audience.
A definate and clear win for the YES campaign tonight.
These numbers of employees at Faslane are easy to refute there are only about 450 parking spaces,stunning example of Britain’s commitment to ride sharing, who would guess that you can pack 20 in a car… envy of the world, only Indian trains come close.
Flower of Scotland
Don’t take this the wrong way.
This is the digital age.People want instant results.The very fact you’re on here makes you a hypocrite.
Shhh…don’t tell anyone,I agree with you.
Jim says:
‘The only point I did feel awkward with was the 8,000 jobs that are at risk’
I’d question the 8,000 jobs Jim. Faslane will be a naval base after independence. For the number of jobs directly related to nuclear weapons, I’d suggest reading this:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
That was more like it.
I loved the groan from the audience when AD started on ‘the currency’ again.
This Salmond/Darling palaver is all well and good, but what about Jim Murphy’s Roadshow?
I need my fix…where was he today, and what happened?
Scotland 2014.
Extra bonus edition…Sturgeon riding dooogy alexandur !!
ICM Poll. 29% flipper.
71% A Salmond.
Its a debate each shouts Sarah Smith..baws says NS, check ra percentages ye dumb boot !(paraphrasing) lol
Midgehunter
Thank **** it wasn’t red wine.
Sarah Smith talking through gritted teeth. Wee Dougie Alexander struggling to put forward any credible argument while Nicola on fire yet again.
Dugdale spewing more of her lies… nay dillusions now on STV. Dugdale; ‘Score Draw, shouty politics” LOL
She is truely off her head.
Ian Brotherhood
Are St Vincent street toilets still open?
Midgy you are a sinner… Two hail marys and shamed in front of the kirk. I hope i got both sides of the divide, athist that i am.
goldenayr
i agree too.
but it’s unnecessary fun.
Can any of you wags dub the ‘Dambusters’ theme over Darling’s mortifying closing speech? I think it would be a fitting way to commemorate the end of the Union.
@Dcanmore
Then Alex needed to stress that point which he didn’t as
you have managed to explain it so why not him?
That was the only minus point for me in what was an absolute roasting for Darling. That guy nearly had a nervous breakdown on stage, pure car crash TV.
Eck destroyed Darling tonight.
And so the surge gathers even more momentum.
Ian Brotherhood
Before anyone says anything,I was talking about Murphy.
Dugdale is on ITV and she is continuing her creepy obsession with Salmond. She and Darling are both a disgrace.
I wonder if WeeRuthie would put a word in fur Alistair Darling wie a voiceover job, or in his case a Talkover job, gutted, noo where’s the batter,or breadcrumbs.
Iain Brotherhood
Murphy was in Kilmarnock with around a dozen supporters.Not much interest shown, and they refused to give a leaflet to someone wearing a YES badge.
I couldn’t be be bothered leaving the YES shop(after 2 1/2 hour leafleting session).
@Ian Brotherhood
He was in Kilmarnock today at 4pm. Saw that on twitter.
No vid as yet.
Best remark of the night so far:
“Darling’s best moment was his summing up, but only because his suffering was nearly over.”
Still chuckling…
‘Shouty Salmond couldn’t disguise that he’s no answer on currency. Victory for Darling on substance & more dignified performance.’
Blair McDougall, on Twitter.
No, seriously. Not spoof.
Guardian headline:
“Darling admits Scotland could keep the pound.”
Westminster and the UK Treasury better start planning for Scotland’s self-governance.
Oh dear, it reminded me of my occasional visit to the headmaster…..argh, how embarrassing for AD (he chortled).
That’s got to be the best bit of entertinment to come out of the Pacific Quay in years!
Much as I hate to say it “Thank you BBC”.
Medical question here.
Can you catch blinkiness?
Catherine Macleod seems to be afflicted by this unfortunate condition which to me, appears to be most prevalent amongst lying bullshitty anti Scottish arse kissers.
And Sarah is a dick. Have I forgotten anything.
Kilmarnock? Lucky bastards!
I hope Murphy can come to the Three Towns tomorrow. We’re getting use of the Margomobile for the day, and will be touring the nooks and crannies, giving people leaflets and badges and encouraging them to come to our meeting in Ardeer on Wednesday.
If Jim Murphy wants to come along and see what genuine grassroots campaigning is all about, he’s very welcome, so long as he stays inside the bus and doesn’t shout ‘arse!’ like Father Jack every three minutes.
Pack up all your cares & woe your going down below bye, bye, Darling.
Stephen Noon ?@StephenNoon 3 mins
ICM – women back Yes by 52% to 48% for No. Very significant shift of opinion. #BBCindyref
Kaye Adams out her comfort zone especially as she knows Salmond won hands down and her finding it tough to say anything in defence of Darling.
BBC must be spewing. A TKO in their own backyard!
They’re STILL hammering away mindlessly at currency. It’s absolutely incredible.
Don’t these fuckwits get it???
It DIDN’T win the last time – even the No friendly polls kept narrowing – and it sure as fuck didn’t win tonight.
They really don’t have anything else left to offer.
Wait till you see the panic setting in for No now.
Sky’s inane pundits trying hard to suggest women will be put off by the pugalistic character of the debate.
Well, I know a few women whose right hook uppercut would floor most men!
Ian Brotherhood
Can fit an 8litre v12 in 3 hours on that.
Would that get you there on time?
Ian Brotherhood
Judging by the second hand information I’ve gatheresd from those here with a TV, I was a bit surprised by (bad) Blair’s tweet.
Does the man really expect Scotland to trust his message now that he has shown us his poor judgement, once again? Is he just like his communications bod, only in it to pay the mortgage?
Alex Salmond saying that he would have Darling in a negoziation team Aye Rite Alex git a grip.
Mad failed chancellor and part-time londoner admits that Scotland CAN keep the pound despite delivering millions of leaflets stating the EXACT OPPOSITE! Has anybody else noticed that he was admitting to having lied to the Scottish People for years?
“The debates are done – now we want to know your view”
link to thescottishsun.co.uk
The obsession with Salmond is creepy, it goes beyond normal politics. We had a 90 minutes town hall session tonight with a speech followed by a fair few questions and answers. I don’t think Ken Gibson or Angela Constance mentioned Miliband, Cameron, Clegg or Lamont by name once. Andy Burnham got one mention in relation to a quote he made about privatisation of the English NHS. 90% of the evening was talking about the positives things an independent Scotland could do.
The Salmond obsession is a symptom of some deep political psychological problem.
Only 59% of NO’s though Darling won the debate says Kaye according to a poll.
Most callers agree that FM won hands down.
Another red herring about Faslane is its worth to the local economy. Faslane is a self-conatained military base, that means those who are stationed there have everything available to them. They don’t need to leave base for anything, not even for a haircut. I know this because my niece is in the RN and is stationed at Faslane.
The nearest town is Helensburgh, Jackie Baillie likes to think that thousands of people from that town are employed at Faslane and it will be devastated by the removal of Trident. Helensburgh has a population of less than 15,000 so I doubt very much that most of the town’s working population is employed there. If you go down to main street Helensbugh today it sure doesn’t look like an economically rich place. Infact it has boarded up shops, pound shops and charity shops lining the streets the same as any other small Scottish town in these times.
I asked my niece if she ever has to go into Helensburgh to shop, she said never, it’s all on base, and nobody she knows goes to Helensburgh to spend money either. She said the only reason anyone goes to the town is to use the train station. There is no doubt that there are many people employed at Faslane, but the removal of Trident to be replaced by conventional forces shouldn’t, at least, make the local economy any worse than it is now.
CM
She must be reading my emails
link to twitter.com
Ronnie
Alex Salmond saying that he would have Darling in a negoziation team Aye Rite Alex git a grip.
‘Invite’ him, quite different from having him, but a brilliant piece of one-upmanship showing who is First Minister, rather like the paternal hand on the shoulder to allow your junior politician to step inside the door first.
Hey… the whole thing is just starting on STV as a repeat… im not nervous this time, should be even more enjoyable second time round
tartanarse
As I said a couple of days ago Mr Darling is the
‘Great Nictator’
Nictate: definition.
(Especially of the eyelid) blink.
Aye Kaye has given up it’s clear win for YES.
Ronnie, I know Alex Salmond was probably joking, but it was a nice move, made him look like the better, magnanimous man.
Darling is just such a nasty piece of work, no manners whatsoever, he couldn’t bring himself to have the common courtesy to call Alex by name, even calling him Mr Salmond would have done and showed some degree of politeness.
If I behaved like that in public my mum would skelp my a**e.
I just went on oddschecker and Yes has dropped to 4/1 from 9/2
Just watched SKY TV – if it wasn’t for the Kids they could fuck off into oblivion
@ M4rrkyboy – that’ll be more bets placed in London then.
Is a mother’s instinct (protective pragmatism), about to come to Scotland’s rescue?
I suspect Gordon Brown will be quietly delighted. As for Kezia Lavvy Door!
night all,
Fred
SKY and the BBC are making a HUGE mistake by not being honest and acknowledging that AS won hands down for their credibility will be on tatters with the massive audience of Scots voters who watched the debate tonight.
Also Darling lied when he claimed 8000 are employed at Faslane because CND obtained a Freedom of Information response from the MOD that said only 570 are employed. Also locals say that these 570 come mostly from Barrow and only work at Faslane Mon to Frid then go home at weekend.
Bob Sinclair
Re parents skelping backsides,see my post about school bullies on Sunday morning approx. 7-8am
as if we don’t already know, but imo it is always good to know some more.
link to news.stv.tv
I’m looking forward to seeing how the papers spin this one as anything other than a convincing win for Alex tomorrow.
I was pleasantly surprised to see ITV News say that he did, though.
Darling should have looked at this before the debate tonight.
link to youtube.com
@Dcanmore
Excellent post re Trident & Faslane.
Vote Yes for bairns, not bombs.
Alright, quickly…Radio Scotland News in three minutes…who can get closest to their opening sentence re debate?
Go!!
Marian: Also Darling lied when he claimed 8000 are employed at Faslane
I spotted that. Has anybody here seen Faslane lately? Do they think it’s the Las Vegas of Scotland, coining it in? It’s a dump. A nuclear dump.
Message for midgehunter…
Debate is on STV …WAKE UP BUDDY !!!!!! LOL
“Shouty noisy debate sheds no light on Ref Debate”
Kaye now saying that the sample DK’s were 57% for FM.
That’s huge she says..
Ian –
‘Currency question – still no answer’
I read or somewhere a while ago that 75% of the people employed at Faslane don’t have Scottish residency. True or False.
A dithering naysayer at the end of Call Kaye, and even he admits Salmond won hands-down
Quite love Darlin when Salmond offered him a job, fair puffed up, loved the attention, bet Salmond was for once lying.
Another hour of radio Scotland on in a minute.
Big Brian & The Prof Curtis with a supporting cast I’m staying up a bit longer… (there’s a joke there…er!)
tartanfever says:
Yes there is, we will use the pound, why, no one can stop us.
Not too hard was it!
Well over on the Guardian there is a distinct lack of the more regular No advocates, especially those with the abusive edge to every post. I guess a sign they are too furious to type.
However, I am sure they will be back before long.
The fund raiser for Wee Blue Book printing is at just over £58,000 with 9 hours to go. Let’s see if we can get it to £60,000 – 240% of target – before it closes.
A real Glasgow audience – not one hand selected by IPSOS Mori.
They were great – especially the woman who ripped AS apart on the NHS privatisation.
PEOPLE MAKE GLASGOW
And will will find out shortly…
PEOPLE MAKE SCOTLAND
kendomacaroonbar – you could make some new badges!
Ian Brotherhood
KAK…3mins?
Been on the Guiness and curry,went to the loo and you give 3mins.
“Salmond Wins…But”
SKY rerunning snippets from the debate invariably lifting quotes out of context.
I would like to thank the Lady who gave Darling the most glorious dressing down I have seen for years. Well done that woman – your final line was priceless and hopefully will keep him awake at night thinking about what he has become.
@cynicalHighlander
Faslane. I’ve heard very similar claims. I’ve also heard said that the BT claims of so many jobs just aren’t true.
ronnie anderson says:
25 August, 2014 at 10:44 pm
Alex Salmond saying that he would have Darling in a negoziation team Aye Rite Alex git a grip.
………….
Hahaha…that was merely the last boot in the stones…lol
Loved the guy with the ‘Ja’ t-shirt.
Given undecideds were already favouring Eck after his lacklustre STV performance, they must be coming over to us in droves right now. Can’t wait to see the next polls! Even Glenn Campbell looked slightly rattled. Let the papers call it a score draw; people who’ve seen the debate will know that was a clear win for Alex. No wonder Better Together weren’t keen on the Sky debate!
Eck. Statesman like as ever. Sure he could have dragged up a lot of stuff we are well aware of but he continues to keep folk onside as any good leader should. Eck in a difficult position because of this. Makes his performance even more remarkable.
Brilliant win for us. Great platform for last few weeks.
Watching bbc news 24 … big mistake
Les @ 11.03
You totally didn’t get the post did you ?
I was replying to Ian’s question of ‘What will Radio Scotland’s News Headlines be ?’
‘Not too hard was it ?’
I am glad Salmond performed well in the second of the two debates. He was a bit lacklustre and too cautious in the first but I think, if US Presidential debates are anything to go by, people tend to remember the last debate most vividly and the aim is to survive the run of debates without imploding and score big on the last one.
I wonder if after refusing any more debates, Better Together will suddenly want best of three
Brilliant to see AS badgering AD about child poverty, welfare for those with disabilities and the money wasted on nukes. Momentum must surely be with the yes campaign now.
@goldenayr –
Guinness, curry and loo – the perfect combo to produce a BBC Radio Scotland Indy-Ref headline.
So, yesterday I saw The Pure, The Dead and the Brilliant and got a real copy of the Wee Blue Book in my mitts and today Salmond gives Darling such a pasting.
AS was excellent and really had him on the ropes. The audience were superb though – by the end they weren’t taking prisoners and Darling was the candidate POW.
I got the feeling that the audience was made up of clued-up YES people and bused in Nos. So when it came to putting hands up and making statements it was the YES side that dominated. Brilliant.
I particularly enjoyed “If we’re supposed to be better together if we vote no, why aren’t we better together already?” and also the guy that pointed out that if Trident went then there were opportunities for oil exploitation in the Firth of Clyde.
Some really good hits about Westminster politicians benefiting personally from NHS privatision – including Darling himself.
I’m sure that Stu will be able to pick out the lies that Darling tried on but overall, you know, I’m glad I watched it (says he, eeven when I started punching the air and upsetting the beer bottles).
TeamScotland could have Darling in charge of negotiating the handing over of Scotland’s share of stationery held on MOD bases overseas. He should manage that.
@Clootie
Beat me to it. She did well. As she said (or words to this effect), “The Yes campaign are full of postive cases for a future Scotland, whilst you Alistair Darling and the rest of the politicians in the No campaign are only interesting in fighting to save their jobs”.
Well said that lady. Good result tonight and Alec Salmond really wiped the floor with AD and won by a country mile.
Debating skills and political nounce at it’s best by the FM.
Ian Brotherhood
Dang…my covers blown…literally!
MajorBloodnok
Preferred the woman who asked about flipper and his colleagues having fingers in the private healthcare pie.
Brilliant. Just hope it wasn’t missed by the masses.
Major… i went to see The Pure, Dead and Brilliant a couple of weeks ago. Utterly brilliant eh?
One thing that struck me was Darling trying to come up with answers for new job creating powers, and having to resort to “we would still be in the UK”.
Pathetic stuff.
The worlds only sepholigist is cacking himself on radio Scotland right now.
How to defy gravity! From BT’s website – Blair McDougall, Malcolm Chisholm, Brian Ashcroft & other’s views on the bebate -amuse yourselves before bedtime!
link to bettertogether.net
the artist taxi driver.
darling v salmond.
excellent rant.
link to youtube.com
john king says:
25 August, 2014 at 9:21 pm
Is it me or is Darling making a total cunt of himself?
lol, dont beat about the bush eh?
@Onwards
Yes, that for me was when Darling was at his most desperate.
Did he actually manage to splutter out a single new job creating power that we would be granted by our masters in London in the event of a No vote?
schrodinger’s cat
The bush needs dusting.
geeo
Actually Alistair knows his way around the Treasury and the Treasury people, he would be a good addition to the team if it is a Yes vote. He has I believe said he is staying in Scotland if it is a Yes vote so he would have a strong vested interest in its future.
I think it needs to be a cross party team and I’m not sure about Iain Gray representing Labour on the finance side of things. Just saying like.
Just in time for the postal vote, our First Minister produces the performance we all knew he had in him. Rarely have I enjoyed a television program so much.
According to Catherine Macleod that, tonight was a score draw. And with that, her credibility vanished. Big Brian couldn’t bring himself to acknowledge it, it stuck in Sarah Smith’s craw an aw – even when Professor Curtis could bring himself to pronounce: “Salmond won”.
My wife remarked to me – why did Darling bring the CU up again and again when Alex Salmond would obviously be so prepared for it? And that groan from the audience said it all.
Alex looked well, spoke passionately and with humour and nailed Darling, but the highlight for me was the lady who crucified Darling on the NHS. I wonder if she wisnae a labour voter all her life up until recent times.
@MajorBloodnok
I got the feeling that the audience was made up of clued-up YES people and bused in Nos. So when it came to putting hands up and making statements it was the YES side that dominated. Brilliant.
I particularly enjoyed “If we’re supposed to be better together if we vote no, why aren’t we better together already?” and also the guy that pointed out that if Trident went then there were opportunities for oil exploitation in the Firth of Clyde.
Exactly, some of the audience really knew their stuff.
Maybe we got lucky with the people picked out, but it made up for the bunch of BT plants in the last debate.
Richt,here’s ane fir ye.
Was Darling arguing for the 2015 election…
Or the 2016 election?
Put that to your uncanvassed electorate.
Theres a repeat showing of the full debate on BBC one at midnight..if anybodies interested..I watched it live ( it was great ) and recording it for my misses to watch tomorrow night..might even watch it again…YES…xxx
Too many on here disparaging the first debate.
The undecided were the target audience there.Get them engaged enough to watch this one.
I’m not SNP but in my book it’s 2 from 2.
If you listen to Darling’s closing remarks, he can hardly speak properly. His mouth has dried up, his tongue is sticking to the inside of his mouth. His top lip is dripping with sweat. The man is under severe pressure and cannot hide his lies.
Alex Salmond is a can, Alistair Darling is a can’t.
From my point of view, Salmond really nailed Darling and the hypocrisy of Labour. By the end, at his closing speech, Darling was a quivering mess.
It is an experience Mr Darling will never forget.
Just phoned a friend of mine, who really is not interested but who promised me would watch the debate, and he, without my prompting said Salmond is bang on the money. He might even go out to vote, and if he does (so he tells me) it will be a YES.
Well done FM. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
This was the ultimate motivator.
(ps. I really enjoyed hearing Alex tell Darling to stay calm – exceptionally funny).
Scotsman and herald both have “salmond won” stories at moment. Wonder if they’ll back off for a couple of days or will it mean a renewed attack with extra vigour. Interestingly – or sadly – the bbc got slightly off the hook as most audience comments were pro yes and Glen Campbell by doing nothing looked neutral and left Darling to his shouty/pointy outbursts which only added to the good yes impression. Radio Scotland are now going out on a roadshow over next week. I haven’t found the schedule yet but if we get out there and get WBB points across and also make sure we complain about them as well on their performance so far then hopefully it will help keep some balance. If anyone has a link to the schedule it would be helpful.
tartanfever says:
Ooops, apologies.
Salmond like him or not performed very well, while in the nest of vipers.
I feel proud we have him, he nailed Darling and only the most biased would deny it.
Did Darling look like a man fronting a winning team?
Darling threw every scare tactic he could muster, but Salmond was unfazed, a class act.
Salmond:
“If we’re supposed to be better together if we vote no, why aren’t we better together already?”
BBC has post debate analysis piece on Scotland politics and its open for comments !!
On the press preview on Sky ten minutes ago the Daily Mail journalist said the debate was rubbish and the BBC man was useless at controlling the debate.
The Daily Mirror journalist said the Scotsman’s front page was rubbish and it was questionable whether it was Scotland’s national paper. He thought the Mirror’s sister paper the Record would have done a better job. He said it was a good debate, but that NO will still win.
Hardly a constructive set of observations. Just the partisan comments you might expect from the two of them.
Alistair Darling happy to repeat the threat about possible 80000 jobs to go on the Clyde – but not a wimper about the up and coming 20,000 jobs to be lost in RBS – better together my arse
As the programme was going worldwide this time it looks as though the BBC were constrained to produce their whiter than white, ‘we are not biased’ image.
The facts about Faslane can be confirmed by Gayle Broadhurst MBE head of Estates at Babcocks at Faslane. In October 2013 she showed me round the Zbase as I was considering opening a legal office in the Mall. As I needed to know if I would have to employ an Lawyer trained in Scottish or English law she told me that 85% of the service personnel in the base which amounts to 2500 are English based. They stay in the accommodation block on Faslsne Monday to Thursday and return home south every week. They contribute nothing to the local economy. Just based on their salaries that’s a loss of £64000000 per year to Helensburgh’s economy.
There has been a drop of 2000 in the Helensburgh population over the last ten years and house prices are some 15% less than in Bearsden.
These are the facts
Last wrk I canvassed a submarine commander. He is undecided.
Every day people from the base are calling into Independence House in Helensburgh to support YES
sorry – think that would be about 8000 jobs and not 80,000
Curtis saying a minute ago on BBC News(radio), “Salmond had a better night than the last one” Goes on to say, “but it might not result in more votes, and they need them”
Lovely guy eh!
The consensus in the press seems to be that the reason for the loud cheering and animation from the YES side in the debate is because they are more motivated by their cause than the no side are about theirs.
Could it be that the NO side were less convinced of Darling’s rhetoric and style?
Torcuil is fair beilin over at the Record. There’s a poll on their which is similar to Guardian result at moment. There is a 2nd question on whether debate will affect your vote which is around 50 : 50. Either interesting (i.e. DK’s moving) or just activists on at this time of night !!
@Dcanmore
It is important to nail this canard about 8000 jobs at Faslane. My recollection is that Darling said there WOULD BE 8000 jobs in the future.
Marion above says “Also Darling lied when he claimed 8000 are employed at Faslane because CND obtained a Freedom of Information response from the MOD that said only 570 are employed. Also locals say that these 570 come mostly from Barrow and only work at Faslane Mon to Frid then go home at weekend.”
So it looks like another lie fom AD. Is this pathological?
HandandShrimps
“The obsession with Salmond is a symptom of a deep political psychological problem”.
Cos Alex Salmond is the best politician Scotland has ever had; he’s had to be considering he’s had to take on the whole UK establishment. And to think we’ve got a ‘statue’ of Donald (Bangla Desh) Dewar in Glasgow. Not my ‘Faither’.
And then of course there’s Nicola waiting in the wings.
Thanks Wings – I think we’ll be taking it from here!
What a hypocritical barstool and LIAR Flipper is. In the debate he mentioned on numerous occasions jobs and young people and employment in the UK being more secure, especially under NuLabour MkII if they get elected.
Yet when Flipper was the
ChancellorChancer of the Exchequer under NuLabour our Young paid for it with unemployment:April 2009
Alistair Darling’s budget pledge: ‘We won’t throw a generation of youngsters on to jobs scrapheap’.
November 2009
Secret Labour plan to axe spending on training for young people:
Graphical overview
Youth unemployment during the NuLabour government
I don’t know about anybody else, but I judge politicians on their actions and not on their words (especially NuLabour) and the action by Darling, above,
speaksshouts volumes.Macsenex,
Thanks for that, very interesting to see firm figures for the ‘commuters’.
NO Darling/Lamont/Currin/Gray/Carmicheal/McDougall have anything to do with Scotland
@Macsenex … thanks for that, very interesting.
@Capella…
Just to clear up, the 570 jobs are related to the subs and nuke storage only, those personnel are shipped in and out as seen fit. Faslane RN personnel for conventional boats and admin are also on rotation four to six months at a time. There is a sizable civilian workforce at Faslane but it is nowhere near 8000. It is the usual half-truths from Better Together/No Thanks, the 8000 figure will be from a total of what the base can accommodate at any one time (probably during wartime or major exercise). There is not 8000 local jobs that depend on Faslane that’s for sure, several hundred tops maybe and that employment will continue when it reverts to a conventional naval base and an HQ for the future SDF.
So, EVERYTHING they say is a lie? (I’ll be saying this twice a day after food until the irritation subsides). At least no one disagrees with what he says, well, apart from the entire Labour Party. (Isn’t he supposed to be a Labour MP?)
What a cheek that Milliband has to ask Scots to vote no and ignore their constitutional future so that he has enough MP’s to make him PM in 2015 , how selfish, he doesn’t give a fuck about Scotland it’s people or its future it is just a means to an end to him for immediate gain
Can the Labour people not see how they are being used and abused by a self centred leader