Ruth Davidson’s Immigration Hokey Cokey
You want the immigrants in:
You want the immigrants out:
You want the immigrants around the same, but shaken all about:
(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 26 May 2017)
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You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around:
And that’s what Ruth is all about. Oy!
So in the last couple of weeks we’ve learned that Ruth Davidson wants immigration to Scotland increased, decreased and kept about the same, all at once. And you’d have to admit that it’s a bold and inclusive position with something for everyone. But is it possible to get anywhere close to the actual truth? Well, as it happens it is.
Here’s what we know:
NET IMMIGRATION TO THE UK IN 2016: 248,000
NET IMMIGRATION TO SCOTLAND IN 2016: 23,000 (excl. rUK)
(This is generally regarded as the bare minimum level of immigration needed to ensure that Scotland has even a chance of managing its changing demographics and maintaining a competitive economy. Some experts put the number four times as high.)
PERCENTAGE OF NEW IMMIGRANTS IN SCOTLAND: 23K/248K = 9.3%
(This is interesting because it’s noticeably higher than Scotland’s 8.4% share of UK population, ie proportionately MORE of immigrants to the UK are currently coming to Scotland than to the rest of the country. This, our alert readers may have noticed, is the exact opposite of what Ruth Davidson claims.)
UK GOVERNMENT NET IMMIGRATION TARGET: below 100,000
SCOTTISH POPULATION SHARE OF UK TARGET: (below) 8,400
Well, that turned out to be remarkably straightforward. Ruth Davidson has told us she wants Scotland to get its population share of all immigrants to the UK. She also tells us she supports the UK target of 100,000 a year, which means that the net number of immigrants to Scotland that Ruth Davidson wants each year is under 8,400.
When questioned, Davidson for some reason refuses to specify this easily-deduced number, and claims that she doesn’t want the current figures to change. Yet 8,400 is a 63% decrease on the actual current figure, and hopelessly inadequate by any known estimations of how many immigrants Scotland needs.
Either that or she wants to slash UK immigration massively but ensure that a wildly disproportionate number of the remaining immigrants come to Scotland, which would play well with the media but might be a bit (cough) of a tough sell to Tory voters.
You can see why she’s so evasive about it.
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(The six-minutes of the GMS interview that covered the topic of immigration, in which Davidson advocated every possible position in turn and displayed the full range of her stalling and waffling abilities, can be heard below.)
(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 26 May 2017)
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Oh Jeez!
Epic bumtrumpetry from Ms Davidson. That is what you get when the leader of the local franchise is a walking Tory photo op. I think my granny used to call the affliction ‘all fur coat and nae knickers’.
On to the next buffalo or tank then. 😀
Brilliant Stu you are on fire today
She wants more pro-Union Tories to move in from England.
She sounds as if she really believes all this – lies, damned lies and tory lies. Nothing questioned at all just a 5 minute tory broadcast – ‘more scrutiny on us than others’ not in this or any other bbc interview I have heard.
“The six-minutes of the GMS interview that covered the topic of immigration, in which Davidson advocated every possible position in turn and displayed the full range of her stalling and waffling abilities, can be heard below.”
I can’t bring myself to listen. I just can’t.
Davidson has more faces than a Rubik’s Cube.
I cannae listen to thon wee nyaff on a sunny, Friday afternoon, but thanks for putting yourself though that for us, Stu.
I’m sure Ruth Davidson practices in the mirror her pub;ic personae faces: there’s her ‘serious’ face, her ‘angry but I will fight my anger down’ face; her ‘I suffer for Scotland’ face and, of course, her ‘Have I Got News For You carefree laughter’ is honed to perfect phoniness.
Davidson must get lessons on how to put on her ‘calm and controlled’ voice, with special emphasis on her ‘slowly masterful tone’ and her favourite faux stateswoman voice, reminiscent of Churchill’s last man standing voice which invokes (i’m sure in Davidson’s wee mind) ‘We shall fight them on the beaches. and in the landing grounds’ voice; and of course the ‘we. shall. never. surr. en. der’ voice.
She. Is. An. Utter. Amadan.
Blowhard of the year award goes once again to Ruth “the mooth” Davidson.
Any Scot voting for this excuse for a politician or her rancid party need to take a damn hard look at themselves.
And once again the media allows her to get away with it.
MSM actively campaigning for the Tories in Scotland.
2 years ago we were going to move to Scotland from Ireland my wife has P.hd in Mathematics , told there was no finance aid for teacher training only applied to England so that was the end of it for us, pity
We need to take more issue with the ‘highest taxed part of the UK’ line, which conveniently neglects different levels of property (council) taxes following the prolonged freeze in Scotland.
Also, I’d hedge a bet London is the highest taxed part of the UK in real terms. Prices for everything are higher, ergo the amount a Londoner pays in VAT annually would be higher than someone with the same income and purchases elsewhere.
Davidson really is one twisted b*stard, she knows fine well, that the HO, has turned back or thrown out god knows how many immigrants to Scotland over the decades.
Hard working immigrants who’ve set up businesses and benefitted their communities have been stitched up by the HO and kicked out of Scotland.
Independence is the only way to secure future immigration in Scotland.
Ms Davidson added: “There is an issue about why is Scotland so uniquely unattractive to people that come to the UK, or it would seem to be from the figures.
“I have my own theories about this in terms of the fact that we are the highest taxed part of the UK, the fact that we have an economy that is shrinking not growing when the rest of the UK economy is growing.
Ruth Davidson, aided and abetted by the media in Scotland, constantly repeats her lies that we are the highest taxed country in the UK, than she wonders why more people don’t come to live here.
She then complains about the an economy that is shrinking, blithely ignoring the fact that it is her Party in England that controls Scotland’s economic levers.
Wonder if ms davidson ever thought if the honey pot of London and the way the uk is portrayed overseas, both overseen from London, pehaps in some small way influenced those coming to the uk to live?
Would tax influence your decision to emmigrate to Canada or the US?
But hey ho, its a bit of a respite from her fixation with the constitution!
Brian Powell…yup, that is exactly what she said.
Some weather we’re having this.
Dedication to the Ruth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Gj5VZXvb0
Cokey-pokey.
Starting to sound like Willie Rennie?
Wonder if this a quid pro quo for their PanYoon mutual support group?
Wife won’t let me do Twitter (100% certainty of being sued) so I just have to register despair at BBC Reporting Scotland.
First lead story: Barack Obama is playing golf at the old course in St. Andrews today!!!
From country to nation to region to starstruck third world country…
RE: Also, I’d hedge a bet London is the highest taxed part of the UK in real terms. Prices for everything are higher
One reason London is more expensive is the London allowance which actually now covers most of South East England. They are the real subsidy junkies.
I am sure if everyone in Strathclyde got a £4,000 annual bonus just for living there, prices would soon rise.
You put your right boot in
You take your left foot out
You vote the Labour Party
And you turn yourself about
You join the Labatories
And the Lib Dems too
You wave a Butcher’s Apron
And it’s all the same to you.
You do not need a lobotomy
To become a Labotory
All you need’s Union Jack
That’ wot it’s all about. See.
BBC Scotland ? Scotland doesn’texist for these creatures. Don’t pay their TV tax.
Ho hum oor poor wee leetle tankette commander starts of talking about the last government … erm that would the government run by YOUR party then wouldn’t it Roothie?
Jeez she certainly is one for having a conversation isn’t she?
Only one wee itsy bitsy teeny weeny little problem here Roothy YOU have been in power since 2010 in Westminster. WHY have you NOT been having these “conversations” before now?
Why do we have to wait until the shite hits the fan before Roothie and her pals decide “oh we’d better have a conversation with … erm … ourselves about having a conversation with … erm … the plebs!”
Just a few years ago the Tories used to attack the SNP for not using the tax powers they had!
Good article – the biggest threat to Scotlands immigration figures is hard brexit!
Didn’t Ruthless claim Scotland were only attracting 4% of immigrants or did I dream that?
I’m just thinking about Roothie and her xall for more immigrants to Scotland.
Where the **** was she when the Brain family were fighting to STAY in Scotlnad?
Where was she when the Zeilsdorf family were fighting to STAY in Scotland?
Where has she been when any of the 10’s, 100’s or even 1,00’s of undisclosed families have been fighting to STAY in Scotland?
( I only put the last bit up cause I can’t remember the names of other families I have read about who are fighting to STAY in Scotland peeps. 😉 )
Davidson … “why is Scotland so uniquely unattractive to people that come to the UK”.
You could argue that relentless SNPBad, or even ScotGovBad, is a valid political tactic … if a rather pathetic straw clutching one.
However, there is a line which Unionists frequently cross which is to claim ScotlandBad and ScottishBad, with what has become their Union-or-scorched-earth agenda.
To return to the NHS. NHSScot performs very well by UK standards, yet that is not the way Unionists portrait it. OUR NHS is a central component of Scottish society. Free healthcare for all, with privatisation resisted by our government, is part of who we are.
Frankly these attacks on our nation stink, and is become ever more frequent in their arguments on all sorts of matters.
What sort of person does this to their country? Wrong question, because Scotland is not Davidson’s country.
Oh f/k i give .up shes even confusing herself . The difference between this guff and the radio5 live interview is startling , she was nailed to the wall on 5 live , our very own compliant BBC in Scotland just let her ramble on , notice how little she was interrupted , in this case for her own sake it might have been better if she had been interrupted , she sounded as if she was looking for help from the interviewer , oh merry f/k and people vote for this idiot , oh well it takes all sorts i suppose .
Errrm… and what about families such as the Brains or the Zielsdorfs? Are these not precisely the kind of hard-working immigrants RD allegedly wants to attract? People who have actually chosen to live in Scotland in spite of its supposed lack of appeal? So what is RD going to do to stop Westminster from throwing such model citizens out of the country?
As thinks stand the only people paying more tax in Scotland are those in the 40p tax band. They are paying £400 more than their counterparts in rUK BUT are paying the exact same tax as last year with a slight downward adjustment to take account of the increase in the personal allowance.
In his last budget George Osborne raised the threshold for the 40p tax band from £43,000 to £45,000. This came into effect this year.
The Scottish Government using its new tax raising powers decided to increase the £43,000 threshold to £43,387. This increase in the threshold was in line with the then rate of inflation. These proposals were in the Scottish Budget produced earlier this year. The proposed change to the threshold was the ONLY change to income tax proposed by the SG.
If it had passed then some people would have been taken out of the 40p bracket altogether while others would have had a modest tax cut. The net effect when compared to the change to the threshold in England would have meant that people in that bracket in Scotland would have been paying £322 more than their counterparts in rUK. But getting free tuition fees, prescriptions etc. Something Ms Dugdale forgets to mention.
The Tories, and other Unionist parties, would not support the budget and the SG did a deal with the Greens to get it through. Part of the deal was the removal of the plan to increase the 40p threshold to £43,387. Therefore taxation levels remain at the same level as last year. This means that those in the 40p band, the only band affected, are paying £400 more than their counterparts in rUK and getting a damn sight more for that extra money than they are down south.
In short, people in the 40p tax band were denied a modest tax CUT because of Ms Davidson et al
Ms Davidson, and Mrs May, have repeated this soundbite – highest taxed etc’ ad nauseum so everyone thinks that everybody in Scotland is paying more tax. Not so. But it does make it seem an unattractive place to come to whether for individuals or companies who might think they have to pay higher wages to compensate for higher taxes.
Thus the ‘unattractiveness’ becomes a self full-filling prophesy. At least in the fevered imagination of Ms Davidson.
If Scotland is an unattractive place to come whether for businesses or individuals could someone explain why Scottish unemployment levels are lower than rUK?
Tory immigration policies are more of a disincentive to immigrants than anything the SG has done by way of taxes. Just think of the immigrant families who have been forced to leave Scotland recently because of those immigration policies. And how many more will follow or not even bother coming.
Well that’s cleared-up the Tory position on immigration……. Thanks for that, Rev. I would have been quite confused without Ruthie’s explanation and if not for your monitoring of the media I might have missed it.
Is it available by the bag? I could with some for my rhubarb patch.
So if that times article is correct and we need 25,000 to 100,000 immigrants to Scotland alone and the government target of the whole of the UK is less than 100,000 surely if Ruth agrees we should welcome them all, everybody will be happy?
Jings!
Rev goes out bear hunting about 13:30hrs there and all the FTSEs sky rocket… 🙂
Jeremy has spoken the unspeakable today, foreign policy has an affect on what happens in the UK. No shit Sherlock.
Anyhoo! “Preposterous” screams the Tories he’s a farm vehicle
Turned out nice again in Fife. 🙂
Ruth makes the case inadvertently for a different immigration policy in Scotland compared to rest of UK. Realistically that will only happen with independence.
Re ‘highest tax’ nonesense- she must be thinking about the differences in duty paid when buying/selling a home or minor differences in the higher tax bands. If she thinks these are factors deterring immigration to Scotland she is very stupid.
Even if she did consider these wrongly as factors, to then discount cost of living in South east, significant differences in areas like tuition fees, prescriptions, council tax is ridiculous.
London airports and the English ports are the main entry points. London is the UK hub- it is no surprise the south east attracts more immigrants initially. It is closer for anyone moving here from continental Europe.
Nicola proposed a solution to square the circle Ruth is trying to square- lower overall immigration but higher proportional immigration to Scotland. Ruth thought it was unworkable.
In the absence of any other solutions the future choice is stark- a damaging reduction in immigration in Scotland within the union or independence.
Just as a wee addendum to my last post.
Where is wee Roothie the Moothie when this lecturer is under threat of deportation. As usual … M.I.A. of course!
He has just been awarded awarded a £1.32 million government research grant for gawd’s sake!
http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-uni-lecturer-faces-deportation-13094732?service=responsive
FatCandy said at 1:09 pm:
“The six-minutes of the GMS interview that covered the topic of immigration, in which Davidson advocated every possible position in turn and displayed the full range of her stalling and waffling abilities, can be heard below.”
I can’t bring myself to listen. I just can’t.”
I’ve done it for you. See you in Court! 🙂
She wants more white-settler Tories to retire to Scotland. They always vote, and they’ll vote for her party.
Well done Rev STU. Absolutely nailed this immigration rubbish from rape clause ruth the tory.
Why do no other journalists check this kind of thing??? Seriously, it’s like they just can’t be arsed to do their job properly, yet it is an open goal. Both Labour and Tories in Scotland talk utter sh*te, yet they are never usually challenged on their lies.
I have spent time explaining to people just WHY an economy like Scotland actually NEEDS talented immigrants. It isn’t just desirable, it is absolutely ESSENTIAL. Once explained, people are usually mystified as to why Tories like Ruth Davidson are obsessed with cutting immigration.
I think this sums up how we all feel about wee Kez or Roothie talking … aboot anything!
https://twitter.com/Attenboroughs_D/status/817275726135173120
Re; Brian Powell@1.06
Exactly what I thought reading this excellent article. STRuth wants Scotland kept a big, rich man’s playground, with a few indigineous folk to keep the cogs turning, and the revenues flowing smoothly down to the south/south east of her England.
I have a wee book, sitting in front of me, called, ‘Leaving Scotland’, produced by the National museums of Scotland, 1996. Front cover, a detail from a truly interesting painting, a romantic depiction of the tragedy of the clearances, ‘The Last of the Clan’, waiting for a ship to remove them from Scotland, dated 1865. Of course, we know that the people of the highlands were violently, forcibly removed from their land, and their country.
Do have a watch of ‘Prospect of Scotland’ 1975, and ‘Quiet Country,the’ 1972, both short films on the NLS image archive. You have to see them to believe it! Mind boggling. PoS one says that ‘Scotland is the 2nd most industrialised country in the world’, it was surely very rich then? No? ‘Quiet country’ tells us how Scotland is part of ‘northern Britain’, a totally romantic idyl if you have money, like a big Lake District in fact! Depicts a couple travelling from England, the lassie a bit apprehensive at first, as if she is being driven to the sahara. Oh, no, it’s soooo far away, help!
Beware though the incessant queens english voice overs, and on most of these 1000s of films about Scotland, can grate just a wee bit grr.
Ps, there are quite a few films on nls archive about Scotland’s population, will check them out later, sun and sowing beckons.
The ‘highest-taxed’ accusation – even if you try to sell it – refers to the current fiscal year wherein the income at 40% tax applies remains as it was in Scotland, whereas in England the income level will be £2000 higher. But this fiscal year is not even 2 months old, and all the immigrant data she uses is for previous years. So she’s complaining about immigrant figures being low because, apparently, there were thousands of immigrants on previous years capable of walking into a job in Scotland paying more than £43,000 gross but put off by clairvoyant insight into the Westminster and Holywood income tax policies for 2017/18 decided a matter of weeks ago.
Look behind you…
http://imgur.com/a/V9Feq
@Arbroath1320
Another ridiculous decision by the Home Office in the case of Dr Parsons. I am totally sick of Westminster taking decisions as to who can and who can’t live and make their lives in Scotland.
This guy and his family would obviously benefit the UK by his living here yet they wan’t to throw him out.
It defies belief. Ruth Davidson do some good for a change and challenge this decision by the Home office which is run by one your party’s minister.
Or are you a cowardly toad only capable of agreeing with everything that May’s government decides is for the good of Scotland even when it’s obvious that it’s not?
I suspect your all mooth and no action, over to you.
@Tam Jardine
Welcome back, nice to see you posting again.
Scotland’s lack of immigration explained. Two simple, easy factors.
1. Not as well advertised as London / South of England
2. Climate colder
It’s that simple folks.
Arbroath1320 @ 13:56 & 14:12,
Very salient postings. Rude Gal is full of determination when in front of a camera, but nowhere to be seen when it really counts. Yet her empty bluster is never challenged by the supine Scottish media. It took an Englishwoman to nail her, and all it needed was a well-informed journalist with no axe to grind.
The truth is that this UKGov immigration crackdown isn’t just intended to seriously diminish new people arriving sometime in the future, in Scotland it is working hard right now to enact a new clearances. All these good people being chucked out as a matter of policy.
It’s not just the Tories either. Labour in England are also buying into this anti-immigration thing for fear of losing votes in the north of England (and to hell with Scotland where they have already lost the votes anyway). It’s always easier to play to people’s baser instincts than to appeal to principle. That nice Mr. Corbyn (independence for everywhere except Scotland) is more compromised over immigration than bad Mr. Blair ever was.
It always amazes me, well not really but I had to start somehow 😉 , how pig ignorant Rooth the Mooth is of immigration matters in Scotland.
The Zeilsdorf family were running a small local business in Laggan but because they couldn’t afford to employ TWO people they were deported. Laggan is a VILLAGE! Where the hell does the incompetent Home Office think they will get the business from in a small VILLAGE to sustain TWO employees!
The professor has received the grant from the E.U. I believe and now the incompetent Home Office are going to deport him! Rooth the Mooth keeps going on about splitting up families … HELL it’s HER boss who is doing that. The professor will be deported but his family will be able to STAY! How much more split up can a family get?
I also just read a tweet from someone who had applied for Citizenship. (I think) Anyway they had to fill in a 86 page document which they did and sent it off. Due to one, yes ONE small error, she now has to start all over again!
Just for good measure here are another couple of heartbreaking stories Thepnr.
http://archive.is/Y6GwR
https://stv.tv/news/highlands-islands/1368813-wife-of-former-black-watch-soldier-given-13-days-to-leave-uk/
We need out of this hate filled xenophobic broken union … NOW!
Where’s Mundell ?
And Murray and the Big Liar for that matter.
Immigration policy has fuck all to do with the Rapefinder General, yet she gets air space from her old pals to talk the usual pish.
She’s not standing is she? So why would we believe anything that gushes from her mooth?
Dugdale, Rennie and Davidson are MSPs; so why are the MSM even talking to them about reserved matters.
If Davidson thinks that Scotland is so unattractive, why doesn’t she fuck off to the Mother Ship?
As for Mundell, Murray and Carmichael. Where are you hiding? Feart to face the public?
Is Rooth the Mooth moving her lips without talking about independence?
I don’t believe it.
Let’s hope her party goes from one to none on June 8th.
That would be nice.
Her voice grates so much it drive me nuts.
Blah, blah, blah, blah……………
Just came across this story of a university lecturer about to be deported, despite the fact that he has just been awarded a £1.32million research grant for the university!! Absolutely crazy! This government is totally incompetent – something has got to change!!!
http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-uni-lecturer-faces-deportation-13094732?service=responsive&utm_content=buffera7a46&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Thepnr @ 14:49
I think you had the answer there in your question!
Look at her fast and graceless turnaround over Brexit for example. 62% in Scotland voted for Remain yet all she could find it in herself to do was to try to shout down Nicola for reaching-out to find a compromise solution.
Ruthie is the perfect illustration of the old saying about empty barrels making the most noise.
Arbroath1320 @ 15:04,
I disagree with you there on one small but crucial point. The Home Office is not incompetent, it knows full well what it is doing. It is determined to crush any obvious success for immigrants here in Scotland, most especially a returning diaspora. Mustn’t have any example of how Scotland can attract people and do things better than rUK, it might make independence seem like a workable idea.
It’s not accidental. These are the new Clearances.
Having an bigot outfit like the OO parading around the streets on any given Saturday without a care in the world and shouting sh!t at Rangers’ games might – just might – have something to do with Scotland’s immigration dilemma.
If these clowns are allowed to spout hatred against Catholics (which of course really means Irish) then it would be pretty easy for a potential imig to extrapolate that it’s them the Grand Lodgers will turn on next once the Catholic problem is sorted.
So they take a pass.
As the local elections have shown the Orange Order are now Ruthie’s People. No Surrender!
To be honest Robert that was actually what I was thinking but, being the generous kind hearted open minded soul that I am 😉 , I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt. 😀
re ‘highest taxed’, even if it were true, I’d love to know why the Tories are content for “tax morale” to be so low in the UK generally. Does it not say something about their British values that people don’t wanna pay tax? Maybe we should be studying Scandinavia more to understand why high tax is not equal to capital flight or tax avoidance strategies.
Ruth wonders why immigrants aren’t coming to Scotland.
Doesn’t she recall the press headlines from her BT chums just over 2 years ago?
NATO wouldn’t want us and we’d be invaded by Russia.
The Eu wouldn’t want us.
The rUK wouldn’t want us.
The oil would disappear overnight and a black hole bigger than the known universe would appear in our budget.
Aliens would invade us (not sure if this was to happen before or after the Russians).
The Biblical plagues of Egypt would descend upon us, killing all of our first born.
Our airports would be bombed.
You’d have to become an expert pole vaulter to get yourself over the hard border England would put up.
Michelle Moan and all her banker pals would leave the country.
ASDA would put their prices up.
FFS – there would be no Tunnock’s tea cakes.
We’d be like Greece without the sunshine.
So, Ruthie-babes, given such a picture painted by your chums in BT, who – I mean WHO – in their right mind reading any of your pile of steaming keech would ever remotely consider coming to live in such a country?
Nothing exposes the BBC bias like the kid glove treatment of Davidson. Where are the interruptions, the exposure of contradictions, the scepticism, the frank ‘you can’t expect the electorate to believe that’ mockery?
Davidson is good at gabbling and filling in time, and so less is left for interviewers. But that’s not a full explanation. She is not as good as she is allowed to appear: she makes gaffes, she is modestly educated, has an unimpressive work history, and has no qualifications or special knowledge or ability in anything – except talking. There has got to be some sort of instruction in circulation to ‘lay off’.
Ruth, it’s the weather (or it’s reputation) and the f*****g midges. What else could put people off coming here.
To my mind, that sir, is a deceptively simple, well explained piece of political analysis and journalism. For what it’s worth, I think it is superb.
@Grant says:26 May, 2017 at 1:30 pm:
“We need to take more issue with the ‘highest taxed part of the UK’ line, which conveniently neglects different levels of property (council) taxes following the prolonged freeze in Scotland.”
The point has been made several times, Grant, by several different people. If memory serves well The First Minister pulled someone up, can’t remember who, during FMQ’s making the point that if all tax was aggregated then all the taxpayers in Scotland were actually lower taxed than their equivalent taxpayer in all other parts of the United Kingdom.
She spelled out that with free higher education, free prescriptions and free home care among a list of other things the Scots were the lowest taxed people in the UK.
No one disputed her facts yet, yo the best of my knowledge, not a single broadcaster or newspaper made any great play with propagating that fact to the World at large, never mind to the people of Scotland.
You could bet your last Pound Sterling that if this had been a statement made by a Westminster Establishment Unionist, or by their proud Scots buts lackeys in Scotland about England, it would have been the top item on every news outlets for weeks and regurgitated at least once per week ever after.
Labotory……..what a great name for the coupling of Labour and Tory parties in Scotland.
It would be good to keep a tally (ho) of how many foreign nationals, who have made Scotland their home and business for years, are being removed/deported from Scotland by the UK Home Office.
Try asking some folk if Scotland has control over immigration, many will say they do, because it’s what the UKgov and their media tell people and want people to believe. Absolutely no doubt that the many more people who have chosen to make Scotland their home, and or married Scots, will be forcibly removed. A type of second clearance. Especially if they are successful, employing people and majorly contributing to Scotland’s economy.
It’s what the yoons don’t want.
OK, over and out now!
Awful nonsense. Its kind of like Pres Trump though. His support says dont listen to the stuff that he says, its what he stands for that really counts. Ruth stands for the union, so can waffle gibberish all day long.
The Guardian comes to Glasgow East again, gets together a Graun Glasgow East focus group that are now tory voters, in Easterhouse. Loads and loads of,
http://archive.is/mY2wR
“Election campaigns have been suspended for a third day in Glasgow East out of respect for Eilidh MacLeod, 14, from the Hebridean island of Barra, and the 21 other people killed in the attack. But it is clear that, among this group at least, the attack has cemented May’s position as a “strong” leader.”
“The Tory line that a vote for the SNP is a vote against the union appears to be getting through, with most of those gathered agreeing that leader Ruth Davidson has managed to turn the general election into a choice about a second independence referendum, rather than other issues that might make a difference in Glagow East, such as austerity, benefit cuts or the rape clause.”
Glagow East is Graun typo too.
” Willie Rennie will use a campaign visit to an alpaca farm to challenge the SNP to cancel their divisive indyreferendum “
… this, from the man pushing for a second devisive EU referendum!
What have alpacas got to do with the constitution, I ponder.
Hey, are we missing a big trick here? Like EU citizens, do they get a vote? Someone needs to organise an Alpacas for Indy group.
I thought the SNP were going to set up a rebuttal facility on the SNP website to challenge Unionist propaganda just like this guff about Scotland being the highest taxed part of the UK.
Putting her foot in it…
http://imgur.com/a/G6jUu
galamcennalath @ 16:03,
Wee Willie is cognitive dissonance personified. The apotheosis of Unionist wishful thinking.
In any other country, he would be mocked and pitied, not given kid-glove photo-op treatment by the media.
Alpacas, FGS! Though what goes on in the background is invariably more interesting than anything Wee Willie can say or do.
How do these people get allowed anywhere near govt.???
Ruth represents EVERYTHING that is wrong with this country . She is the face of sectarianism and xenophobia and is more anti Scots than anyone i have ever known. I am beginning to truely hate that disgusting TRACTOR .
We have enemies and they are legion.
But dont look abroad for that not even over the border were Scots are welcome . No our enemies are our own folk. Brothers , sisters , aunts and uncles . fathers and mums.
Now we have troops on mainland UK soil.
How the hell did we allow this to happen ??
I despair at the lack of imagination and drive that we have . Too busy stabbing each other in the back. We can do so much better . Christ we invented the modern world . Still lead in science and medicine .
If we fail to get Indi next time , ( sooner rather than later) We will have consigned our kids and their kids to second class and i will be ashamed to ever say i am a Scot again.
Waken up ffs
20 years ago we would be marching on London .
England has chose its indi from EU , it is time NOW for Scotland to be Indi from England .
P.S Glad to see you back Tam J . Missed your level headedness.
The sun is shining , Todays my sons birthday (33 y/o) and i feel somehow i am failing him . He works a 60/70week just to survive .
🙁
sorry to put out the negative shit .
It’s because Davidson and her proudscotbut lapdogs take great pleasure in putting down Scotland. I can picture them eagerly telling everyone they meet from overseas that Scotland is sh*te.
OT From the Record ….
” Jeremy Corbyn blasted by Boris Johnson as ‘monstrous’ for linking foreign wars to suicide attacks
The Foreign Secretary has hit out after the Labour leader pointed out that there is an established link between waging foreign wars and terrorism at home. “
Johnson is either fool or a liar, or of course both.
It is preposterous that anyone should suggest there is no relationship between UK foreign policy and being a target for terror attacks.
Johnson twists the argument to suggest pointing out the obvious was an ” attempt to justify or to legitimate the actions of terrorists “ . What utter nonsense!
There is no justification for terrorism, ever. Pointing out why the UK is a target is perfectly valid. Without being honest, and without tackling the roots causes, we will never get out of the circle of violence.
http://archive.is/hEFA0
O/T
Nice 1:
http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2017/05/why-the-scottish-media-fears-wings/
The tories have been in.
Let’s get them out.
And, in the process, shake them all about.
VOTE SNP on June 8th.
Great stuff Stu.
This article should be shown to as many Tory/Yoon friends and family as possible.
Surely this glaring illustration of the vacuous nature of Ruth Davidson’s politics would be enough to at least instil some doubt as to whether Unionism is worthy of continued support.
Eric Joyce’s article about WoS gets it spot on …
“… the unionist camp is simply the combined vested interests of Scotland’s rich and powerful determined to ‘other’ anyone who doesn’t share their dogmatic desire for Scotland to be run by Conservatives in London, and outside the EU at that.”
http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2017/05/why-the-scottish-media-fears-wings/
R@pe Clause Ruth, she that would deny the third born child food in their belly by taking money away from their parents is a disgrace and an embarrassment to decency.
She is fighting for and fully supporting a Tory plague against Scotland’s poorest citizens. A real Scot would fight these cuts all the way that force people to resort to using foodbanks.
Seriously are Tories in Scotland that selfish that they would deny 18 to 21 years housing benefit and have them sleep on the streets instead?
Are Tories in Scotland that selfish that they would take away disability cars from the disabled and keep them housebound?
These people are playing God with others peoples lives and probably don’t even appreciate this fact as their heads are so far up their own arses that they fail to see what is going on around them everyday. Or maybe many just choose not to look.
Wouldn’t surprise me for them to do as God supposedly did in his plagues on Egypt and just bring about the death of all the firstborn out of spite. Many perceived problems solved in one stroke. Is that really a poor comparison when our government choose to starve the third born.
Over 4 million children are now deemed to be living in poverty in the UK. That is 30% of all children and what about pensioner poverty or just old fashioned poverty of the parents of these children?
https://archive.is/ENXpC
The tories with their austerity policies are out of control, they don’t have a clue where they are going with Brexit which will make all of us poorer even the daft Tory up your street.
The number of people living here is not the problem at all, in fact increasing the number of people would benefit all. The real problem is that we don’t have a government that will build enough houses, employ enough NHS staff, employ enough police etc. etc.
The real problem are Tory policies, I wish people would just open their eyes, see what is staring them in the face and then vote anything but Tory.
dakk says:
26 May, 2017 at 5:05 pm
Great stuff Stu.
This article should be shown to as many Tory/Yoon friends and family as possible.”
Imagine a non tory BBC led media, in Scotland, that produced anything like this level of journalism…
Its fun to speculate if it would make a difference to voting in Scotland but in a yoon galaxy, far far away, from actual journalism,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40044927
Election 2017: Davidson says immigrants find Scotland ‘unattractive’
7 hours ago
From the section Scotland politics
I can’t bring myself to listen to Ruth Davidson running down Scotland. She is an arrogant, mendacious stooge for the Tories in Westminster.
There are great many EU citizens in Scotland who will be leaving us because of Tory anti-immigrant laws. It’s outrageous that we have no power to decide this for ourselves. Shame on Ruth Davidson and her Tory British National Party.
Thanks to Stu for listening so we don’t have to.
Welcome back Tam J and Petra ( on the previous thread).
Scotland’s Taxes are higher for the rich than in England,
if you don’t take into account these many benefits:
1, lower council tax.
2, Road and Bridge Free Tolls.
3, Free Prescriptions.
4, Free University Education saving up to £45,000
5, Free personal Health Care for the Elderly.
6, Mitigation of the English Tory Bedroom Tax.
7, Free entry to our Museums.
8, Free Hospital Car Parking.
9, Higher Salaries for our NHS nurses.
10, No Junior Doctor Strikes.
11, Meeting Higher A & E waiting times,
12, Free School meals.
I’m going out tonight so someone can take over.
Ruth F**** off with that higher Tax Crap!
Top billing on the BBC website, Ruth and the alternative universe, yep BBC Scotland thinks yer all f/n stupid, not one critical comment, just yet another promotion of the Union, They control the horizontal they control the vertical, in Ruthies universe the outer limits is reality .
Now we have it , no more than a few days after the horrendous events in Manchester , yet again the internet has been mentioned, this wouldn’t be to get people used to the fact in order to protect you we must curtail your rights, it’s for your own good, Aye f/n right, the perfect opportunity has presented itself to shut down criticism and critical websites,
Lookout STU your on the list, Kezia warned you, your on her list, even called you out at Hollyrood .
I think she says at about 4 mins:
“we need an economy that attracts more people to come to the UK from within the UK”
Did I mishear?
How is that even possible?
I’ve been an immigrant for many years of my life, although I for now live in my native country. I dislike lumping all immigrants in one category – the one the UK increasingly seems to label “undesireable”. That said, discriminating among immigrants can be even more unsavoury.
When I lived in Australia, I never encountered racism (fluent English-speaker, white, blonde, blue-eyed that I am) but on a couple of rare occasions, I did encounter quite strong anti-immigration views. I pointed out to these people that I was also an immigrant. I was told I was all right because I was the right kind of immigrant. This was during Paul Keating’s administration, a time when Australia was a lot more liberal. The political landscape is quite different now. (Just to confuse everybody, the Australian reactionary, conservative “tory” party is called the Liberal Party. Keating was Australian Labour, socially liberal, centre/centre-left, keen to shift focus from the “mother country” and her allies (UK and US) to Asian neighbours.)
I lived for a while in England, and it was all right, nothing bad, quite a lot of good, but never felt I quite fitted in. But when I came to Scotland… I was made so welcome. I fitted right in. Yes, I was different and couldn’t understand all the accents, but I felt at home.
Before all this, I lived in the US because of my father’s job. The place was in Colorado (back then a solid Democrat state), and within Colorado, a small town with a big university and several federal research institutions, so it was a very liberal, highly educated place, investing heavily in schools. My maths teacher was a Polish exile (this was before the Iron Curtain fell) Mr Okolowics. He told all the pupils to just call him Mr O, knowing that his name was difficult, and was pleased when I actually called him by his real name.
Several years later I was going to high school in western Washington State, just south of Seattle, a place where Kurt Cobain also spent some time, in the same social circle that I got in with. I’d love to say I met him but in all honesty, I can’t. The nearest was one of the PR House girls having a fight with his boyfriend Kurt upstairs while I was having coffee with some others downstairs. Ah, well, but I know where that particular type of music came from.
Anyway, Washington State is also a fairly liberal corner of the US, but my fist couple of days at school I was first totally baffled by a strange ritual every morning, beginning of 2nd period, when everybody stood up, placed hands on heart and recited some words, a creed.
This subject came up on Rev Stu’s Twitter timeline several hours ago. Some yoonionist wrote, “There needs to be a pledge of allengiance to the Queen & to the flag in Schools daily & public events. This should be a matter of priority.”
The way I, as a teenager, handled this distasteful show of American “patriotism”, was to stand up with everybody else, as a courtesy, but never say the words or place my hand on heart. (Pretty much what I do today when I have to attend Christian services (usually funerals of elderly relatives). It’s no skin off my nose to be respectful and courteous. I don’t believe in God/gods but I don’t need to make a point of it during someone’s grief.) Back in America, I still got some flack for not “pledging allegiance to the flag and which it stands for” from some idiots, but my piece in the school weekly newspaper explained my point.
Ah, yes, the school paper. Our owner = journalism teacher Mr H first put me to assist the features desk, do illustrations, paint a mural on the wall (I’m pretty good at drawing/painting, and Mr H knew it), but after my measured “Pledge of allegiance” piece and my incisive double-spread interview with Santa Claus (correcting the common misconception that he lives in the North Pole, he lives in Lapland, northern Finland, dammit!) our editor-in-chief, another student, allowed me to suggest my own stories, work on them and have them published. My favourite was the one about “off-campus high school” where young people who don’t fit in regular American high school get a good education, good enough to get into universities. At the end of the year, our journalism class gave awards. Sports “writer” and the school’s biggest sports star T.R. got the award for most likely to sign his checks with crayon (he got a full scholarship with perks to play American football at some university), I got the award for most likely to write better English than T.R. We both had a good laugh about it.
Sorry for a long post again. Rev Stu’ twitter timeline made me think of pledges of allegiance and my immigrant times.
Davidson tell that to Jason and Christy Zielsdorf who had to give up their store in laggan,You two faced lying piece of tory scum.
Maybe if the UK stopped deporting those good people that have come here and made a valuable contribution to Scotland we might persuade more to come
@Cactus says: 26 May, 2017 at 1:39 pm:
“Dedication to the Ruth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Gj5VZXvb0
Cokey-pokey.
I’ll dedicate this old jazz number to Ruthie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzyBSNtlvr0
I want an immigrant in
An immigrant out
Or maybe none at all
Cos that’s what were about
You issue them a visa
Then take it all away
That’s what it’s all about.
Oh hokey cokey cokey
Oh hokey cokey cokey
Oh hokey cokey coke
Cancel their visa and kick them out.
Watching the mainstream news media today has been an exercise in open jawed gaping !
They seem to find it incredulous that there could be a direct link between terrorism in the uk and its foreign policy decisions in the middle east.
Ermm….DUH !!
…..
I wonder if it’s ever occur to Davidson that maybe the reason so few migrants want to come to Scotland is due to her constant on an almost daily basis telling the world what a shit country Scotland is backed up by her loyal adherents Dugdale and Rennie.
What a fucking shower of shit
graeme
I seem to remember when Spain pulled out the allied coalition in Afghanistan, after being warned that all countries involved would be attacked if they didn’t leave.
Just a few weeks later,after leaving,(or in the process) Madrid was victim of horrendous suicide bomber attacks.
Of course there is a link to a nations foreign policy and terrorist attacks.
I am old enough to remember the “start” of Islamic terror if you will. Prior to the millenium there were three incidents.
The Iranian Embassy seige, Pan Am over Lockerbie, and then the Muslim radical who blew himself and half a hotel up whilst making a bomb to kill Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses.
During this time through from the 70’s most incidents were IRA and other terror groups related to the troubles in Ireland (on both sides.)
All you need to do is then look at the figures for radical Islamic attacks since the invasions of Afghanistan Iraq and Libya. The increase has been significant.
For anyone to say they are not related is just plain idiotic.
@galamcennalath says: 26 May, 2017 at 4:03 pm:
“Willie Rennie will use a campaign visit to an alpaca farm to challenge the SNP to cancel their divisive indyreferendum“
Well first of all Wullie needs remember that it takes at least two separate groups to cause division and his lot are one of them.
Here’s a strange fact. One of Wullie Rennie’s sons was at school with my step-son. Later, because he was a fan of the old legendary 1600E Cortina, as were myself and my stepson we saw quite a lot of that Rennie lad around our house and our garage workshop. My boy and I were expert car mecanics/welders/spray painters and classic car restorers and Steven was not.
Yet since Wullie became leader of the Scottish LibDems I’ve never bumped into Wullie anywhere around the village. I have visions of him hiding up closes or diving into shops to avoid me. I assume he still lives in the village but he may have moved for all I’d know now.
[ McBoxheid says:
26 May, 2017 at 6:55 pm
I think she says at about 4 mins:
“we need an economy that attracts more people to come to the UK from within the UK”
Did I mishear? ]
No, you didn’t. That’s exactly what she said.
Let’s face it, the wummin’s an absolute donkey.
Even allowing for the horrendous attack in Manchester I would have thought that Obama’s presence in Scotland might have merited at least a mention on the BBC 6pm Opinions.
After having given May a light grilling on Monday which had her tied up in knots of confusion and cliched sound bites Brillo was in full attack mode with Corbyn tonight.
Why are The BBC never attacked for having this long time arch-Thatcherite as their prime political commentator and interviewer?
Corbyn is being attacked from all quarters including by our outrageously stupid Foreign Minister over this morning’s speech which in fact hit the nail right on the head.
Suicide bombers do not blow themselves up for fun – there must be an underlying reason justified or not for them having a hatred for the country or institution they attack and in this week’s case it is being made clear why this week’s perp wanted to attack The UK.
Bob Mac, re Islamic Terrorism, my recollection is that there were little outbreaks due to American and its poodle imperialism in the sixties/seventies but it started to grow legs after American forces were based in Saudia Arabia after the first gulf war in the early nineties.
Worth reading.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/looking-at-the-bigger-picture/
She gives me the dry boak. Lying , devious , toby jug , brit nat git. She should be paintballed with her own shite. Shes got a face like a city bakeries halloween cake. With policies to match .
…they can say anything comfortable in the knowledge that their tame media will sort it out for the.
They know what she really meant to say and it was wonderful!
If it’s true,the reason Scotland gets few immigrants. Is the same reason many Scots have to go south for work I.e economic policy.
Economics have meant that London, Birmingham and Manchester. Have the majority of jobs and opportunities for young Scots. Same for immigrants that’s why they choose England over Scotland.
10 years of Snp government cannot overturn decades or even centuries of bad economic policy. Macro economics are what drives infrastructure and these areas are not devolved.
We cannot judge the Snp on things they have no control over. Davidsons answer is to generate wealth by taxing the people directly. Ffs that is never the way to grow an economy, it’s fucking beyond stupid.
She is out of her depth not a clue. She then claims Scots are the most taxed in the UK and her answer is more direct tax. Why does she get airtime. First year economics students would knock her arguments to shreds.
I am just back from Ardnarmurchan. I never heard a Scottish accent in any of the hotel owners or restaurant owners. At one point the wife and me were the only non English people in a hotel with 10 people in the room.
There are loads of migrants to the Highlands but it’s a mono culture of wealthy settlers from England. The locals are ignored and can’t afford to start businesses. If you have a £300k house in Surrey you can by a hotel in the Highlands! Locals have all moved to Glasgow and Edinburgh. It’s a really sad state of affairs. The English have taken over whole towns in Ardnarmurchan. This is not preserving culture it’s wiping it out.
Imagine getting told by an English lassie when you asked what beers they have. She says the local ones ran out but we have a pilsner that’s like it. Turns out the local is Tennents! I felt like screaming I am feckin Scottish why not just say the Tennents is off.
I don’t think they even recognise a Scottish accent when they hear it. Another one was warning me about tides on the beach in Morar. I have been growing there since I was seventeen!
They just can’t help taking over and acting like they know Scotland better than me.
Mallaig which used to be a hard as nails Scottish fishing town. Had Union flags in about 6 houses!
I feel quite depressed about the way highland culture has been destroyed.
I would think Craig Murray hit the spot when he insinuated that Saudi would arrange such an event to help promote Mrs Thatcher as a leader in times of crisis.
Before anybody thinks I am a conspiracy theorist let me assure you I am not. Especially so when you think that during the last indy referendum a Saudi prince donated over £400,000 to the better together campaign through the DUP so that it did not need to be declared coming as it did from N Ireland .
They want one of their main arms providers to stay exactly the way it is Considering the Saudis are the main sponsors of most of these radicals ,a connection becomes obvious.
I believe the unionists want to attract more English immigrants to Scotland to increase the No vote and guarantee a No majority before another independence referendum is held.
This is my personal view based on my gut feeling. Don’t ask me for evidence.
And it is not an anti-English comment.
I have long accepted that it is completely natural for the vast majority of English settlers to vote against Scottish independence from England. Nothing wrong with that.
Most EU citizens would have voted No to England’s independence from the EU if they had been allowed to vote.
According to this Op Ed piece from RT, Theresa May is directly in the frame. She was Home Secretary when Libyan jihadis were encouraged to go to Libya to overthrow Colonel Gadaffi. The Manchester bomber’s father was one of them.
Corbyn is right to draw the connection between our foreign policy and the type of dangerous Wahabi islamism, sponsored by Saudi Arabia, which is causing so much death and destruction.
I can remember Robin Cook promising an ethical foreign policy. Of course he had to resign when Blair pushed for the Iraq War.
https://on.rt.com/8cs2
Rock 9.01pm. You won’t find me disagreeing with you on that.
Again proof Ruth Davidson does no research gives a sound bite that fits with what she or Tory part think is an agenda. Serioily if anyone votes for her crew North or south of Scotland they should be forced to do compulsory modern studies and history classes.
They might learn some of effects of Conservatism on UK and Scotland in particular.
Vote SON in GE2017
@Bob Mack says: 26 May, 2017 at 7:56 pm:
“I am old enough to remember the “start” of Islamic terror if you will. Prior to the millenium there were three incidents.
The Iranian Embassy seige, Pan Am over Lockerbie, and then the Muslim radical who blew himself and half a hotel up whilst making a bomb to kill Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses.”
Aye! Bob Mack but you missed out the real cause of it all.
The forgotten story of Iran Air Flight 655:-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/16/the-forgotten-story-of-iran-air-flight-655/?utm_term=.ede4f5901e9c
This is what led to the downing of the USA civilian aircraft over Lockerbie.
I wrote a better account but before I could click, “submit”, it vanished. So the above is someone else’s version.
If you’re going to go round the world from the time of the Crusades murdering whole nations of people because you don’t like their religion or you want their land or you want their assets, Muslims, American Indians, Australian Aborigines, Scottish people and many others along the way those people might stoke up a little resentment over time and dislike you just because you seem like an absolute lazy bunch of no goods who can do nothing for yourselves so steal from others and then justify it by calling it civilising folk or peaceful interventions to cover up your vile actions
Definitely after a few hundred years of that shit and a history book or two later our southern cousins are still behaving the same way and still denying it with what they think is diplomatic speak
Trouble is with all that, heard it, seen it, don’t want to hear it again and they still pretend they don’t understand why folk become radicalised
It’s because they don’t like you, it’s that simple, bad because innocent folk die, but simple
But here’s the thing, the British state don’t care about that really or they would have stopped doing it a very long time ago but they don’t because money’s worth more than people so let’s keep the pretence up
How’s our Scottish Independence going by the way seeing as how we’re the extremists
I don’t feel very much different from a lot of murdered and conquered races around the world by the way so how does that make our Westminster Lords feel? Well no different as long as there’s still dosh to be extracted from my country Scotland eh
You shouldn’t make excuses for terrorists they say so why does the Westminster government keep making excuses for themselves
They are the original terrorists
@ capella who discussed the Manchester bomber’s background
here’s an attempt to understand what factors pushed him to act as he did and what danger signals were ignored – even though he was reported 5 times to the Authorities
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2017/05/25/profiling-the-english-terrorist-red-flags/
My point isn’t anti English either. It’s just calling it as I saw it. A foreigner in the Highlands is what I felt like. Great having a cross section of immigrants. But that’s not the situation in the Highlands.
They have ruined their own country and will gradually ruin Scotland if they get the chance. The posh English not the poles, Irish, Germans etc are the ones stopping independence. I am a third generation Irish Scot. Maybe I feel differently for that background.
I couldn’t imagine rural Ireland being little England. That’s because they kicked the colonial government out. I am fed up being pc about this as well. The no voters from England see indi Scotland as a threat to their personal claim on Scotland.
Insecurity means they will always vote no in the majority. Apologies to the 20% who don’t carry their baggage with them to a new country.
Big Jock 9.42pm
I know where you are coming from.
Even BBC Scotland when they are filming in the Highlands seem to hunt down every English person in the area for some strange reason.
Our Southern visitors don’t want their northern wilderness being run by the locals.
Big Jock at 8.03
So true and a growing problem. Actually we have a huge wave of immigration which does not show up in figures. There are 480,000 English immigrants into Scotland. They have priced locals out of the housing market and the majority are economically non active (apart from local spending)retired people who bring no children so our rural schools are also closing.
They are not bad people. They have taken the opportunity to come to a better place.
Their wealth is almost all in ridiculous property prices down south so if the economy crashes this phenomenon peters out.
But our imperative at this moment is to persaude them to support YES.
I can remember when Ruth was a presenter on Newsdrive on Radio Scotland. At the time I thought she was the over-confident type that needed to be taken down a peg or two.
When she turned up as the next Tory candidate for Glasgow Springburn it all fitted together for me and I recalled her often abrasive interviews with SNP people. I just find her an opportunist like the rest of her list MSPs who have no charisma or political skills.
AS usual, BBC Scotland do not open website articles for comments when it’s a Tory.
What influence has Donaldo MacKinnon at the BBC, none by the look of things.
@ Ben Madigan – a pretty thorough catalogue of predisposing factors. Add in our own authorities duplicity in training and arming these people to overthrow leaders we find inconvenient.
Robin Cook, former Labour Foreign Minister:
In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western intelligence:
Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Wikipedia.
I don’t know about anybody else, but I have absolutely no interest in the election. It is nothing but a Tory distraction to try and derail our fight for Independence.
Nicola Sturgeon was about to announce plans for IndyRef2 after the Easter break and then Treeza butts in and announces to the world that there is going to be a General Election.
Roll on June the 9th so we can get back to the serious business of getting Scotland out of this stinkin Union.
Maihri Black will soon be on Channel 4 Last Leg show
Capella says:
Fascinating article. If that story was more widely reported it could destroy May’s election chances!
The bomber just got back from Libya. That country seems central to the entire plot. Did May as Home Secretary in 2011 play any part in, or even have knowledge of, sending his father to Libya to fight with Jihadists to undermine the Gaddafi regime? Dynamite!
Will the msm follow up and investigate?
Caz the sad part is the BBC don’t need to hunt English people out in the Highlands. It’s harder to find a local. Get this even in Ardnamurchan point the most remote and westerly lighthouse in Scotland. The cafe owner was English. What are these people running away from?
Do you think their kids will ever have Scottish accents in such a remote place. So gradually even highland accents will disappear from small villages.
But it’s really hard being Scottish in their company. Their disguise as local know it alls can’t cut the mustard with Scots. The Europeans,and even other English folk are probably oblivious to their hosts origins. They don’t talk about it. They want them to assume they are Scots. Yet they vote no…how strange!
@Capella says: 26 May, 2017 at 10:01 pm:
“Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by Western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Wikipedia.”
Not forgetting also that Saddam Hussein in Iraq was trained and originally armed by the USA.
I went on a boat tour up off Lewis and we were speaking to the English gent who took us out once we had come ashore. It was a bit strange because he wasn’t prompted in any way to make the comment that he did.
Maybe someone asked him where he was originally from but he actually went on to say how embarrassed he was that so many English folk who settled there stuck their noses into local matters, especially where it concerned local jobs and people’s way of life, traditions etc.
He said they really had no business doing such and there was no respect at all from many of them for the locals. They really thought they knew best.
We were left a bit gobsmacked. I also remember another time on the ferry some English couple making a real tit of themselves moaning and shouting at some poor worker about something really stupid, can’t remember what it was but everyone was looking at each other and giving one of those looks where you don’t have to say anything but are all thinking the same thing.
There can be a real sense of entitlement among a certain section of English folk and I don’t think it’s just us Scots they look down on.
I’ve been to many places in England and have mostly had a great time but especially in the south east have encountered the more self inflated types. They certainly don’t hold back when telling you what your country is like even though half have probably never been.
We have our share of idiots in Scotland too but I find the views of supposedly educated folk down south hard to grasp. I usually associate such views in Scotland with folk who maybe haven’t had a great education for whatever reason and certainly wouldn’t expect anyone with half a brain to be as ignorant.
I’m sick of this forced marriage, if it takes soooo much effort to keep it from splitting then surely it was never meant to be.
I once got lectured on why Scotland shouldn’t be independent by an English guy in Edinburgh. He was a friend of a friend amongst 12 guys from West Lothian. Only one of them backed me up.
Even if you are a Scot who votes no. Surely I shouldn’t be told what to think by an incomer of any description. It’s very arrogant and rude to speak for someone else’s nation and lecture them.
I find this with most English people in Scotland. They demand that we are both the same nationality and British trumps Scottish. How dare you not want rule from London. It’s like an abuser calling an abusee ungrateful when they ask it to stop.
England thinks the World owes it a favour.
England thinks the EU owes it a favour.
England thinks the EU will collapse without them.
England are in for the biggest shock of their lives once these Brexit negotiations start.
Because the EU are in no mood for pissing about. They are going to give England one helluva kickin..
And I am just so totally pissed off hearing about England.
The Ruth Davidson election broadcast, she’s even parroting her leaders words now “A vote for me and my team to send a message to the SNP”, she says
Who does she think she is Tongs ya bass
Dugdale’s at it, Rennie’s at it
Are the public so stupid they haven’t noticed that vote was taken and won last year and none of the oppositions bleating crap or no surrendering can stop a democratic vote in parliament
That’s how stupid they think you are voters, or how much they respect your parliament that Scotland doesn’t count
Of course it’s only the wee pretendy Scottish parliament though, so that can be ignored
A few Corbyn, labour voters calling out Fallon & May on Radio 5 tonight but Auntie making a staunch defence bringing up Corbyn’s links to the IRA.
Corbynite’s saying all the UK governments were talking to the IRA & Sinn Féin through the years…and so it goes.
Conservative MP Bob Stewart well known ex British Army officer doing his best to interrupt and polishing up the government position and succeeding in part. ‘No boots on the ground’ but not mentioning airstrikes. Quite a spat! 🙂
Auntie admitting 50,000 ‘terrorists’ (brown people) have been killed in the last few months.
Corbyn seems to have set the heather on fire darn Sarf where are the Green Goddesses?
Hung parliament not such a long shot it seems but still unlikely and I don’t want Slab to get any traction.
caz m says:
You’d would expect that would worry them. It is just possible that the hardcore Brexiteers don’t care.
They will walk out of the talks and declare that it’s all the EU’s fault. They will go further and use this as proof that the EU is a problem and that England is best freed from their grasp. It will only reinforce and confirm their deeply held prejudices.
You just can’t win when someone’s extreme nationalism clouds all judgement and allows them to twist all facts to prove their exceptionalism.
The tone will change from the SNP after 8th June. The election is a needless distraction to our cause.
The original plan will proceed for indy ref 2. It’s going down the legal route. Are the Scottish courts going to vote against their own national parliament. No absolutely not. Will May challenge the Scottish courts decision. You bet she will she is that arrogant.
Might end up in the supreme Court and EU court as we are still members.
call me dave says:
Just enough of a Labour boost to stop their supporters from tactically voting Tory would be ideal.
Not enough votes to get seats back from the SNP, but enough to prevent the Tories taking any.
A rerun of 2015 would be perfect!
One UK wide poll giving the Tories a 5% lead, just. That could be a hung parliament if voting turned out like that on the day. This election isn’t going to be the walk over May expected, I hope.
Dave McEwan Hill @ 9.55pm
Many of these incomers from England have arrived here in the SW over the years, in sizeable numbers. As you point out, they have made what is, for them, an entirely understandable decision to move to Scotland where there is better health provision, with other benefits, and at the same time, since many here are from Cumbria, they are not far from relatives. It seems, from their point of view, perfectly sensible and prudent to have taken advantage of the economic opportunities allowed them by the present day housing market,to sell up and move to a less expensive area where they can buy a house in nice surroundings and still have money to spare.
Unfortunately, precisely because their decisions were based on practical choices for their own economic future, it appears that they were presented with a situation which they did not anticipate or understand, when the Scottish independence referendum came along. Most of them were hostile to the idea, though only a minority expressed it openly.
We have to recognise that this situation has occurred in areas of England and Wales, too, which has caused the same transfer of populations from richer parts to prettier parts of the country and consequent problems for the local population whose offspring are forced to move out.
I don’t know how the independence movement can deal with this, since in my experience, many of these incomers are not receptive to the case for independence. Whether we like it or not, they simply saw Scotland as just another part of their country when they moved here and see no good reason for that to change.
To be fair to them, this is not a political situation of their choosing and they obviously see the movement for independence as an unnecessary nuisance. Again to be fair to them, if the local population were more receptive to independence the incoming population would not be a problem. Unfortunately, the incomers’ viewpoint actually fits quite well with the local population’s shared prejudices and distrust of independence.
There isn’t a strong identification locally with the idea of “Scottishness”. Convincing them is as much of a puzzle. To be honest, canvassing down here during the indyref was disheartening, but at least then for me, the result wasn’t as devastating as for others in the central belt for example, as in my heart of hearts, I was half-expecting it.
There are two basic flaws in Ruth Davidson’s philosophy:
1) She thinks the world is a really great place.
2) She thinks its greatness is down to her input.
Big Jock@10.29
Yep, many, probably most of the yoons from england do think that Scotland is a little, poor, subsidy junkie so can’t understand why on earth Scotland should be independent of their masters in London. Ridicule and contempt have been drummed into people which is why they look at Scotland as less than civilised, or at least a second class country.
However, nearly every person I know who lives here but who hail from england, were YES voters. Many many people I know, from Scotland, were no voters. What we do not need are more rich folk from SE Eng, buying up second homes and voting to keep Scotland shackled. The have their cake and eat it types, there are a few around, many privileged from birth.
Voting, who should get to vote next time, those with holiday homes, or who keep empty properties as a tax break, but get to vote in our elections? That would need to be sorted for indy ref#2.
O/T When I met Christine Grahame she said “Someone with the same hairstyle as myself”
Anyway would be very interested to hear Robert Peffers take on this:
youtu.be/VGdTtAq_vZE
@ galamcennalath @ Robert Peffers – I’ll be stunned and amazed if our MSM follow up on the Libya connection before the election.
The BBC barely mentioned Jeremy Corbyn’s speech and it was followed by one after another Tory sock puppet pouring cold water all over it. All the usual outraged expressions.
You can condemn these tragedies but you can’t seriously discuss the UK government’s role in creating this nightmare.
@call me dave
Hung parliament not such a long shot it seems but still unlikely and I don’t want Slab to get any traction.
I think I know where your coming from, this is a bit of a dilemma. want would best suit the goal of Independence? A large Tory majority or a hung parliament with Corbyn willing to grant a Section 30 order in return for SNP support.
Bearing in mind that this would give the SNP huge influence over UK policies at least while we are still members of he UK.
I think I’d favour the latter to be honest, if we are to win Independence it has to be irrespective of who is in power in Westminster.
You won’t be surprised to hear that my nerves are jangling.
@Bob Mack
=============
It’s not just our governments sending troops to and bombing in the Middle East. Our governments actively support the ME countries which back the Daesh and ISIS: Saudi Arabia, which promulgates the fanatical Wahhabi version of Islam has the full backing of the US, the UK and other Western powers. We give them planes to bomb other Muslims of a different sect – our governments support the fanatics with one hand while attacking (but less effectively) the terrorists who are the tools of the Wahhabis with the other.
galamcennalath 10.51pm
England want to take as many countries as they can over the cliff edge with them.
They thought Austria, Italy, Netherlands, France and Germany would follow them out of Europe. But since Brexit support for the EU has grown in these countries.
England only have Scotland, Wales and N Ireland left to jump off that Brexit cliff with them.
And I am 99% sure that Scotland will not go with them.
Brexit will win us our Independence.
I kind of accept that 80% of English people will always vote no. That’s a sizeable amount maybe 6 to 7 % on the total. So we are always starting 7% behind. Add to that the old fought in the war coffin dodgers 10%, then add 10% Orange Lodge ultra Brit scum. So effectively nearly 30% is a lost cause. That only leaves a total of 70% maximum that could vote yes. 45% from 70 leaves 25% and that’s our target group.
5% of that is Eu and other immigrants likely to vote yes now. We could win by only allowing people born in Scotland the vote. It’s not the way I would prefer but to me the journeys not important.
Big Jock
50% + 1 vote will do me, LOL.
@Big Jock
Using your own figures we would gain 6 or 7% of the vote if people born in England were excluded from voting and lose 5% or so of the vote if EU citizens were excluded.
Doesn’t seem to be that much point in that case.
Better then that we’re inclusive rather than exclusive in my view. We know what needs to be done and that is grab 5% of those you have identified as potential Yes voters from the available 25%. We do that by persuading them that Independence is the best choice for Scotland and those that live in Scotland.
So Scotland is a third of the land mass of the UK? Someone should tell them over at the BBC Weather Centre.
You’d actually think that as many coming from England to Scotland in the knowledge of better health care, free prescriptions and bus passes for elderly, altogether different outlook re EU as proven by the ref last June, that they would ‘get it’ about why we want out of the union?
In light of Brexit is their any sizeable shift in this demographic since 2014?
call me dave@10.49
I feel the same! I have some family members getting excited about a Corbyn win! Will they never learn.
Corbyn says NO to Indy Ref2. We want an Independent Scotland with its own political parties.
Maybe we should tell them that the Tories are so upset about a Brexit future that they are willing to lose the election to the hapless Corbynites.
Howde ye do partners…?
In Glasgow’s finest..
ROCK NITE.
Wings.
Catty.
SCO.
X.
I would welcome a Corbyn win in England on humanitarian grounds. Who would wish the May Tories on England. Annoying though they are sometimes, most people are decent. They haven’t had the enlightening experience of our Indyref so most don’t realise how mendacious the MSM is. But they’re beginning to notice.
A Tory win would be disastrous because civil liberties won’t survive for long IMO. BREXIT and out of ECHR doesn’t fill me with hope.
Of course, SLab is hopelessly compromised being Blairite.
@Tonal
“You join the Labatories”
Nice one Tonal.
Now I seer why Frankenstein’s Monster was a product of the Laboratory. Lab or a Tory, disnae metter their baith cheeks (noses, ears, hearts etc. ) of the same monster.
@Flower of Scotland –
Corbyn has vacillated on indyref2 so much that his opinion shouldn’t carry much weight.
Does anyone believe that, given the option of becoming PM if losing Scotland is the ‘cost’, he wouldn’t grab it with both hands right now?
He obviously doesn’t give a fuck about the predicament of Kezia, and it seems fair enough to take that as a microcosm of his overall attitude to what’s happening in Scotland right now. He’s really not that bovvered.
Yeah, I hope he thrashes the Tories and becomes PM, but that will include his own Scottish branch office being wiped-out because, in Scotland, they are de facto, Tories. Can’t imagine him losing much sleep over it, and no-one can really blame him.
Is there any justifications for the 4% of UK to Sotland immigration figure used by several Tory representatives and Ruth Davidson in this interview? Clearly the figure is 9.3%.
Ruth and Mundell, Churchhill in drag. http://wp.me/p4fd9j-gFt
For my tuppence worth , if you’re not for Scotland yer a tractor( ok I know )The past wee while(only300 odd year) has proven without a doubt that the establishment of westmonster is against us. and as her majestic Ms ruth of pishdom says we are a PART of uk, NOT a country. It biles ma pish.
Artyhetty says:
Because, I suspect, many of us moved here moved here to escape the Tories. I left in the 90s at the end of the Thatcher era and have voted straight SNP ever since. I moved away from a country obsessed with selfish, materialistic self-interest, and moved to a country where community and service are still valued and people look after one another. I may have been born in England but I am not ‘English’ any more – I’m Scottish. I’m not a Scot, I’m not an ‘expat’, I’m Scottish. And I’m not alone.
@Liam
Thanks for those words, they say exactly what I’m trying to express. I’m Scottish too and proud to have you as one of “us”.
Scotland is SO excellent…
Always overstand..
Smallaxe knows.
SCO.
X.
Jock Tamsons Bairns @ Thepnr. I agree .
Liam@12.50am
Yes, agree there. Scotland has a huge amount to offer, just hope that people from other parts will be able to live and stay if they want to, and not be turned away or removed by UKgov. All of that is quite sinister, and obviously a deliberate UK tory gov tactic, to portray Scotland as unwelcoming, when in fact the opposite is true.
A peaceful and maybe even sunny weekend, to all. 🙂
@ Artyhetty,
We’ll get there, as sure as the rain will piss oan us when wer taps are aff. Scotland is oors and oors alike. Always.
https://caltonjock.com/2017/05/27/kirstene-hair-a-little-sweetheart-from-a-good-looking-rich-landowning-family-is-standing-for-the-angus-south-constituency-is-this-the-future-straight-outa-school-and-off-to-westminster-surely/
Liam at 12:50 am
…. many of us moved here moved here to escape the Tories. I left in the 90s at the end of the Thatcher era and have voted straight SNP ever since. I moved away from a country obsessed with selfish, materialistic self-interest, and moved to a country where community and service are still valued and people look after one another. I may have been born in England but I am not ‘English’ any more – I’m Scottish. I’m not a Scot, I’m not an ‘expat’, I’m Scottish. And I’m not alone.
No Liam you’re not alone – I came to work in Shetland aged 18 in 1981 then after 5 years back in the tory shires moved back to Scotland with my family in ’88.
I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment – I am not ‘English’ any more – I’m Scottish. And I’ve ALWAYS felt at home and welcome here.
We love Scotland !!
Lots of recent press photo’s of Ruthy shows her with small staring eyes. Sort of piggy eyes. You must have all noticed.
When a person lies in a conversation they normally glance up to the right unless of course they are aware of this natural trait and stop it. This election has shown us with Ruthy, Farron and Rennie that intense small staring eyes mean the same. Technical term is “lying twisted eedjits”.
Good Glasgow.
There’s SO mucho love.. in the heart of ra City
SO much love.. in ra heart of toon..
Glasgow is X.
Glasgow.
X.
Whitesnake…
U know.
Mon ra Cairnstoon………………….
@the ruth
Plug it U ("Tractor" - Ed) of Scotland.
Lookin’ forward to whenst we are.
Gig a tee..
X.
Tractor Ed..eh?
Didnae do it, but I like it..
Hail Caesar!
Funny.
…
Soon, Scotland will be ours..
Again.
Nae mair of that London rule pish.
Cheers for da comeback Robert Peffers.
We good.
X.
Love Scotland.
Don’t be a conservatorian.
Tory bad!
Good morning Scotland…
What ye got for us CC?
Heading HOME.
Don’t stop thinking about ra morra..
Today.
FM.
We are Wings.
We are Scotland.
Next up…
Nana’s links..
The kettle will be on.
Followed by the most amazing Chris Cairns…
How’s Hamish doing dude?
Morning Cactus ! May I just say your wee one liners kinda inspire and cheer me!
Off to Arran on the 7 a.m boat which is why I am up at such an ungodly hour.
My day is also cheered by the news that a vile , hate preacher has lost her broadcasting job – may there be more of that ilk brought to book.
@Liam 12.50
Well said and quite right.
You don’t get to choose where you’re born. You do get to choose who you are.
Scotland is a geographical location. It’s mountain and water, trees and soil, much like any other part of the globe. Though the weather is a bit on the changeable side (cough). Prettier than some and a great deal more fortunate than many, but a landmass by any other name.
Being Scottish however, is a state of mind and a way of life. It’s a choice. We’re caretakers of that landmass. It’s where we choose to call home and if that is to have any meaning at all, then its population must always have that right to choose.
It’s got to be a home where you know you’re family is cared for and safe. A home you’re happy to pass on to the next generation to care for.
Links
https://theferret.scot/scotland-attracts-four-percent-uk-immigrants/
https://theorkneynews.scot/2017/05/23/letters-why-i-wont-be-voting-lib-dems/
The Scottish Lib Dems Broke The Election Campaign Truce And The Other Parties Aren’t Happy
http://archive.is/UxQlc
https://randompublicjournal.com/2017/05/26/state-of-emergency-a-godsend-for-theresa-may/
http://www.broadcastingscotland.net/the-uk-governments-two-child-policy/#Organisations
https://informscotland.com/bbc-bias-timeline-2017/
http://www.welfareweekly.com/davidson-caught-out-over-shameful-child-poverty-claim/
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11044/mcalpine-indy-scotland-can-liberate-englands-northern-economy
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/fresh-blow-for-tyrannical-theresa-as-up.html
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/140083/exclusive-snp-unveils-plan-help-oil-industry-thrive-years/
https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/25/tories-just-lost-court-case-finally-expose-stealth-privatisation-nhs/
http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/election-2017-tories-attacked-after-dedicating-manifesto-only-to-working-families/
Nana: Good Morning, another lovely day here. Thank you, for your links.Kettle’s on!
🙂
Peace Always
I’m pretty sure Ruth is just getting primed for calling us all ‘racist’ because we don’t have enough immigration.
Good morning Smallaxe, another scorching day here.
I posted 4 more links which may need approval from Stu so check back later.
Tory campaign not viewed as a success.
https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status/868210131867193350
I have now had SIX posted leaflets from the LibDems, only one of which identifies the candidate.
The one that identifies the candidate is the only one which is counted in election expenses.
This is cheating.
I would wager a bet that the same is happening on Jo Swinson’s LibDem target seat and that Tory target seats are being similarly deluged with very similar Tory leaflets.
They are virulently anti SNP, comprise almost entirely of “no second referendum” and contain virtually no policy positions at all.
Wonder who is paying for this.
We should be shouting “those who don’t want a referendum are those who know they will lose a referendum” “we will not be bullied” and “we will have a referendum”.
Robert Peffers says:
26 May, 2017 at 10:11 pm
Not forgetting also that Saddam Hussein in Iraq was trained and originally armed by the USA.
________________________________________________
US cash, Russian weapons.
Here in East Dunbartonshire where the very helpful Jo Swinson hangs around like escaping gas when it’s postal vote time (to help the old folks you understand) all the Lib Dems posters and leaflets are about stopping the SNP and stopping a referendum which as I mentioned earlier can’t be done because that vote was passed in the Scottish Parliament last year so their leaflets are just lies and they can stop nothing, they can moan but that’s about it
As for respecting the Manchester tragedy well the Lib Dems didn’t they went right ahead delivering their rubbish without any pause at all and the candidate is only a presumption that it’s Jo (let me help you with your postal vote) Swinson and where’s the camera and give me a minute till I make my accent more Scottishy for the oldies
I could use bigger words to describe the contempt I have for Lib Dems but I’ll just say, they’re not Truthy people
Dr im @ 8.21am
So, your slogan is: Lib-Dems – Less Truthy Than Ruthy
Might catch-on.
Radio shortbread bereft of Scottish news ISIS, Trump, Obama & more Trump then Trump’s son in-law with not an alpaca to be seen.
Apologies in advance for this O/T, had to get it off my chest.
I’ve just heard the most disgusting attempt at Tory propagandising on radio 4. Nick Robinson……….I should just have turned off then, but didn’t………
He interviews a group of “just managing” Londoners over chips and mushy peas (just to highlight that we are in plebsville in case the audience can’t frame the discussion about to take place). They articulate well the issue of “just managing” and importantly associate it with changes in their circumstances over the last 5 years. One lady expresses compassion for those earning less and having to go to food banks etc. It’s a reasonable piece to this point and the direction of travel for any reasonable investigator is obvious – who created those circumstances, who has been in power those last 5 years or so, how do we fix it etc.
But no, of course not, Robinson manipulates the direction by asking them who came up with the phrase “just managing” – nobody knows and one guesses Churchill (FFS), whilst another hopes it was Corbyn, which is music to Robinson’s compromised ears. He joyfully informs them it was May, as if that makes it ok – she really does care about them etc. Some of them are not convinced that she does, but I had to turn off at this point.
His implication: the author of this superficial phrase is more important than a factually constructed narrative that explains and informs people as to why they are “just managing”. Utilised in the way Robinson clearly intended, it also implies she has nothing to do with the past and will address their circumstances going forward – ok, so how exactly will she do this? As you can guess, that didn’t appear to be addressed, unless after I switched off.
It was blood curdling stuff.
@Col says:26 May, 2017 at 10:15 pm:
” … There can be a real sense of entitlement among a certain section of English folk and I don’t think it’s just us Scots they look down on.
I’ve been to many places in England and have mostly had a great time but especially in the south east have encountered the more self inflated types.”
Believe it or not, Col, this is a historic thing and goes right back to when the Romans arrived in Britain and found out that North Britain, in particular, was different. The Romans ended up building the Gask Ridge & Gask Road as the Northern Frontier of the Roman Empire.
Then they extended the Gask Ridge defences across Britain as the Antoine Wall. Only to withdraw further south and there build Hadrian’s wall that lasted until the Romans withdrew from Roman Britain.
That process established a divide across Britain that was the basis of a cultural divides that exist till today. It was replicated to some extent throughout Britain and is mainly responsible for the present borders of the four main countries extant in the United Kingdom. It established centuries of different cultural outlooks.
So while the South Britons, and in particular whose around Londinium, became two classes of Britons under their ruling Roman Masters. The old Briton Rulers where Romanised and ran South Britain for the Romans and they in turn were the overlords of the rest of the native inhabitant Britons in south Britain.
This also established a quite different outlook to the South West of what is now England and, of course in what became Wales as well as in what became Scotland.
The Romans had thus instigated what later became the English, “Class System”.
In due course the Romans left but were replaced, (by the now,”Upper Class”), Romanised South Briton Leaders.
In due course this upper class invited the Anglo-Saxon Germanic Tribes to come to South Britain and again there was an elite leader class, an upper class of Britons and the slave class of south Britons. The Queen of England has the real family name, “Gotha Sax Coburg”.
What followed was a succession of different factions of Germanic immigrant elite rulers who continued to make use of the Upper Class South Britons but throughout the entire time there was always attempts to subdue the Britain South West Country, and what became Wales and Scotland.
So they had Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Norsemen and Normans who were all Germanic Tribe factions. The only area of Britain that was never overcome by war was the area that is now Scotland.
Certainly the Normans, (that name is derived from the, “Norsemen”, who were invited into the area on the main European continent now known as Normandy), did come to Scotland but did so in a quite different manner. Robert Bruce and William Wallace were Norman Knights but in Scotland they did not come due to a Norman conquest but by intermarriage and integration with the native North Britain leadership.
So even today there is a great divide in Britain and the South Britain class system still exists with hereditary Peers still sitting in the House of Lords but in Scotland we have a quite different cultural outlook on such matters.
It exhibits itself quite unconsciously in the Scottish phrase, “Ach! See HIM? Ah kent his faither”.
We Scots, (except for the Proud Scots Buts), do not generally follow the English class system and we see this in our attitudes towards those who choose to make Scotland their home and they, in turn, show their different culture by integrating and becoming Scots. Usually within one generation. We do not ghettoise our immigrants – we turn most of them into Scots.
@ People Carrier – BBC radio can only be taken in very small doses. It is highly toxic. WoS is the antidote.
Foodbanks are an abomination. Shameful. Nobody should be that destitute. I don’t mean the kind people who provide the food. But the cruel state which makes begging necessary. Just keeps it off the street.
@John Young says: 26 May, 2017 at 11:16 pm:
O/T When I met Christine Grahame she said “Someone with the same hairstyle as myself”
Anyway would be very interested to hear Robert Peffers take on this:
http://www.youtu.be/VGdTtAq_vZE
As I’ve explained several times on Wings. As a I boy I befriended an old semi-retired well known QC. I was already, at that tended age, a committed Scottish Nationalist.
The main basis of the friendship with the old QC was our mutual love of books and of Scottish history.
It was from that old man I learned of the legal aspects of the Union. Christine Grahame, in that YouTube clip, mirrors almost exactly what the old QC taught me all those years ago.
I have forgotten much of the legal precedents the old chap quoted me but there were quite a few. Scots Law, and I believe also English law, relies greatly upon legal precedent and that precedent exists to be quoted in any international court in the World.
There is absolutely no doubt that there simply are no legal grounds for the Westminster claims of absolute sovereignty over the legally sovereignty of the people of Scotland.
There is, however, a great legal hurdle to be overcome if the legal sovereignty of the people of Scotland is to be enforced.
It needs must be backed by a clear legal majority of the people of Scotland. Now I may well be wrong but, it certainly seems to me that our First Minister, a well qualified lawyer, has set-up just such a plebiscite, (or referendum), to do just that.
Yet the United Kingdom/de facto parliament of England’s Prime Minister has claimed she, or the de facto parliament of England, are claiming to have the power of absolute sovereignty to refuse to acknowledge the wishes of the legally sovereign people of Scotland.
As Christine Grahame has stated, in fact Westminster does not actually have the powers to do so.
As some nonentity once said, (I just cannot remember who it was), said, “Bring it on”.
“That process established a divide across Britain that was the basis of a cultural divides that exist till today.”
Rab, modern Scots archeology is showing all kinds of evidence that the Celtic Scotland we know today was very different from the south half of the Celtic British isles. For example, there is highly distinctive iron age habitation everywhere meaning that Scotland was covered in earthwork ring settlement and stone brochs. And there is almost none in England. From Shetland, right to down Dumfries and Galloway, almost all of it seems to end at Hadrian’s wall, long before it was built.
It looks like this is a homogeneous and distinctive iron age Celtic culture, across all Scotland, Western isles, Orkney and Shetland.
If you’re that way inclined, you can probably extrapolate why 20th C archeology was highly anglo centric, even more so in this millennium:D
And if you’re still that way inclined, its becoming more and more obvious that the Roman Empire encountered a vast and highly distinctive Celtic culture from that in England and ofcourse, they were defeated by it, despite several huge attempts.
British culturalism in the UK is an odd thing to watch, from Scotland. Ofcourse cultures can and do die out or be wiped out. Celtic France was destroyed by Julius Caesar for example, took over ten years, with one last great Celtic stand. Rome enslaved practically everyone in Gall, and slaughtered maybe half a million people, wiping out Celtic France. They then did much the same to Celtic England and Wales. But they could barely get in to Celtic Scotland.
@Thepnr says: 26 May, 2017 at 11:36 pm:
“@Big Jock
Using your own figures we would gain 6 or 7% of the vote if people born in England were excluded from voting and lose 5% or so of the vote if EU citizens were excluded.”
Both of you may have got the arithmetic correct but have both have the theorem wrong. Real democratic Scots Nationalists will refuse to lower themselves to such base levels of unethical, unconstitutional and dishonesty of fiddling the plebiscite. Who the hell do you think we are – Yoons?
The SNP, as the SG, have adopted the civic version of the Robert Bruce wars of independence effective war tactics of occupying the high moral ground and fiddling the voters roll is NOT the High Moral ground.
It is those high moral standards that are slowly winning over the electorate of Scotland and the low moral standards of the unionists, so often highlighted on Wings, that is seeing the Britnats losing voters.
@George Docherty says: 26 May, 2017 at 11:38 pm:
“So Scotland is a third of the land mass of the UK? Someone should tell them over at the BBC Weather Centre.”
To be fair there is a logical explanation for the shape of the BBC weather map. All maps are projections dependant upon the point of view of the mapmaker, or at least of the POV of the map data gatherer.
There are many standards of projection. For example the most common one is based upon the Greenwich Meridian that is set by the position of the Greenwich Observatory in London.
Now that the Weather data is observed from a Weather Satellite or satellites the POV of the data for the map is that of the geostationary European weather satellite positioned over Europe and thus the BBC Britain weather map is seen from that viewpoint and Scotland, being further from the viewpoint is smaller.
Having said that it is a simple task to use a small computer algorithm to convert the map to always show the correct relative proportions on the map but the BBC choose not to do so.
I leave it to Wingers to judge if the BBC do so as just another propaganda exercise.
@Flower of Scotland says: 26 May, 2017 at 11:40 pm:
“Maybe we should tell them that the Tories are so upset about a Brexit future that they are willing to lose the election to the hapless Corbynites.”
May be better to tell them the real truth, Flower of Scotland?
Like how both lots, Tory & Labour plus the LibDems & UKIP are all just different parts of the Westminster Establishment.
They will fight amongst themselves but stand united together against all outsiders and we Scots are the ultimate outsiders as far as the Westminster Establishment is concerned we are the longest established enemy of the English Establishment.
I leave it to Wingers to judge if the BBC do so as just another propaganda exercise.
Met Office don’t do the BBC’s make Scotland look tiny compared to England thing, probably because they do have to actually provide information, not propaganda.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/map#?map=SignificantWeather&zoom=5&lon=-4.00&lat=55.21&fcTime=1495843200
@Robert Peffers
No, the BBC view is from a much lower altitude, one obviously selected for political reasons.
Stick to the history, Robert.
http://www.weathercast.co.uk/satellite-pictures/visible.html
It might be easier to simply blame the SNP and their management of Scottish education for what is clearly a generation of innumerate Tory politicians.
An absolute destruction of the hapless Michael Fallon by Channel 4 news.
Interviewer qoutes him a speech about the war on terror not working..Fallon crucifies it thinking it came from Corbyn, interviewer tells him it was actually a quote from BORIS…!!!
Kez style level of car crash..must watch.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1209134949208695&id=959780427477483
@Liam says: 27 May, 2017 at 12:50 am:
” … I may have been born in England but I am not ‘English’ any more – I’m Scottish. I’m not a Scot, I’m not an ‘expat’, I’m Scottish. And I’m not alone.”
There is a well known definition of what you are here in Scotland, Liam. It was long ago defined. The SNP do not govern just for those born in Scotland but for all, “The Peoples of Scotland.
This is defined as, “Anyone of any colour, creed or country of origin, who is mainly domiciled in Scotland and who has registered to vote in Scottish Elections.”
What is more all the peoples of Scotland are of equal value and it isn’t where you came from but where we go together as the people of Scotland that matters most.
I know many people born in Scotland who will never be Scots by their own choice. The only right that being born in Scotland confers on such people is to represent Scotland at some sport or other and even that is being circumvented in modern times.
It has never been part of Scottish Law. In simple language it boils down to – if you adopt Scotland then Scotland will adopt you.
RE: Weather information.
This is the web site for the establishment that actually downloads the data from the satellites.
“Dundee Satellite Receiving Station, Dundee University, UK, maintains an up-to-date archive of images from NOAA, SeaStar, Terra and Aqua polar orbiting satellites.
Images from geostationary satellites covering the whole earth are also available.
To view the images please complete the on-line registration form. Registration is free and the images are free.”
http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/
You can see their dishes on top of the Dental Hospital, the Tower Building and the building at the corner of Small’s Wynd and Small’s Lane.
https://binged.it/2rJasSh
Here’s a photo I saved from the site in December, 2010, showing the whole of the British Isles covered by snow.
https://imgur.com/Rw7mQT3
Hey and a good afternoon to you Dorothy Devine x ~
Always a pleasure. Putting out a bit of the good new-fashioned passion to the MAX for Scotland. It is within us all and is good to share around, just add alcohol. 😉
I trust you had an excellent crossing to our aye-land that makes the best mustard, yummy yummy.
Yeah, great to see that the Katie got the Hop!
Have a brilliant day.
‘they extended the Gask Ridge defences across Britain as the Antoine Wall. Only to withdraw further south and there build Hadrian’s wall that lasted until the Romans withdrew from Roman Britain’
Saith the world renowned ‘historian’ Peffers. Hadrian’s wall predated the Antonine wall. The rest of your racialy potted narrative is also bullshit.
Romans in Caledonia!
81 Agricola comes north & builds forts,
84 Battle of Mons Graupius,
90-105 Domitian abandons the forts,
105-122 chain of forts built at Stanegate,
122-138 Hadrian builds wall,
139-142 Antonine builds his wall,
163-165 Antonine’s wall abandoned.
208 Severus invades & builds forts at Carpow & Cramond,
212 forts abandoned.
Poor Buffalo!
Well I was hammering on today again about Pensions.
At about 1:15 into the last audio clip that Stu posted, Davidson (paraphrasing) states that she is ‘not that hung up on numbers’. …She wants elected to manage the Scottish budget, but is not that hung up on numbers? …Reeelly?
Some people would actually vote for that?