Rational thinking will have to be made
Posted on
September 05, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
This is Andy Brough, the Executive Director at Schroders Investment Management Ltd, discussing the referendum and currency on the Bloomberg channel yesterday.
He predicts a Yes vote in the referendum, and that Scotland and the rUK will share the pound, regardless of what George Osborne says. He predicts a “chaotic” aftermath, but seems rather relaxed overall at the prospect of an independent Scotland in a currency union. And for a senior City financier, he seems to have a very perceptive grasp on the reasons behind Scottish Labour’s backing for the Union.
The money men have made up their minds.
Cameron and Osbourn are toast on the 19th. That is the only real chaos I see resulting from a YES vote. The Tories melting down and UKIP stepping upwards to occupy them as the Tea Party has done the Republicans.
Miliband will be like a spare Whatsit at a sauna owners wedding bash
Do you get the feeling the ‘chaos’ which would result is if there isn’t currency union and when he says ‘Scotland is too small’ does that imply the chaos won’t be up here as the bigger ripples will be caused by the Osborne’s mismanagement of the whole currency debate?
Common sense. Well, not so common in the British nationalist media.
Unionist MP’s will get exactly what is coming to them. Karma
“The money men have made up their minds.”
It is beginning to look that way.
@ Quentin Quale, When he says Scotland’s too small, he’s replying to the question ‘would there be a full scale currency crisis?’ My reading is that he means Scotland’s too small compared to the rUK economy for a currency crisis to occur in either country.
I think the Yes campaign have played a blinder on currency tbh. It was always going to be one of the issues the No camp used to create uncertainty and whatever was put forward as Plan A would have been mercilessly attacked. So essentially they’ve put forward the one option that will be favoured by the markets, by businesses (that mainly back the status quo in anything), and by unionists, then stood back and let Westminster and the unionists go into full scale attack mode on it. Now Salmond looks like a statesman, with a currency plan A draw up by top economists, that makes sense, that the markets will want, particularly for a transition period. And Westminster look like snot-nosed school kid vandals with sling shots.
If it is a Yes vote, they’ll either be forced into a humiliating climb down or have to stick with a course that, at least in the short term, will be economically disastrous for the UK. And remember any “Scottish” bank or business is, until 2016 a UK one, as the “Scottish” economy is the UK one too. So any hit on Scotland between now and then is a hit on the UK.
What a nice chap.
And he’s not even read WBB!
Or has he?
A lot of us were disappointed after the first debate, myself included, (probably because we all pin our hopes on him excelling) but I agree the FM has played a blinder.
A true politician with his country at heart, not caring about how he personally comes across.
I love you Mr Salmond and always will!!!!
Scotland’s champion.
Everything that we’ve been saying for the last couple of years which has been sneered at and denigrated by everyone on the No side is now coming true and, boy, do they look stupid.
Yes, but…
Andy Brough isn’t exactly a mainstream City type.
link to independent.co.uk
I trust the people of Scotland to do the right thing.
The wave of enthusiasm for independence is turning into a tsunami, and everything in it’s path (like Milliband for example) won’t be able to halt it’s direction of travel.
Hey, Stevie boy settle down, LOL.
I agree, at the time I wasn’t sure but AS is probably the cleverest politician of out time, he was playing a game of chess but Darling was playing tiddlywinks.
I listened to the video again.
He said he was at a dinner last night so I wonder if he was repeating the thoughts?of his financial peers as well?
Seems like to me.
Did you notice how quickly they moved off the subject and cut him off?..Obviously this is a man who plays the best odds and he knows whats going to happen.
Not many will see Bloomberg and on BBC Radio Scotland Newsdrive a few minutes ago both the BBC presenter and the Daily Record political editor referred to the SNP when they should have said the YES campaign (that is clearly deliberate) and on no occasion during the campaign the BBC referred to YES Scotland which is the proper name for the umbrella group for self determination.
Gordon Brown threatening to turn up at Westminster in the event of a No vote.
how did? that happen?
Thing is where does head of Schroders get his info from? If he reads any UKOK news hour by hour ,the NO has won easily. Eg, BBC shill Gavin Eslers in Shetland right now campaigning hard ukok and the BBC, so Mr Brough isn’t watching that conman at work either.
Did Alex really go dope on a rope round 1, then round 2 KO for the Flipper? You bet he did.
Liz
I know lol, getting carried away a bit, just so upbeat.
Regardless of the result Mr Salmond has given us hope and played it spot on 🙂
Now that the person who egged Jim Murphy has been arrested, charged, put on trial and sentenced, does anyone know the state of play is with the various assaults on Yes campaigners?
😀 😀
Interesting article from yesterday explains what has rattled the City of London:
link to neweconomics.org
and “it’s not uncertainty over Scotland’s future that’s troubling them”.
Rather it appears that the Financial Times’ reported earlier in the week that “Currency investors” would apparently be “particularly concerned by the UK’s persistent current account deficit if this were no longer offset by North Sea oil revenues.”
The deafening sound of pennies dropping all around the country. Audible groans from any audiences now when the BT UKOK tired soundbites come out of puppet’s mouths. Currency, EU, pooling and sharing, risk blah, blah. When the money speaks the MSM will follow. Perhaps only then will the “not enough information” dolts wake the f*+^ up!
The financial institutions rely on accurate predictions and they have some very smrt cookies working for them.
I reckon, and have done for a long time, that there will quite probably be some statement on a currency union either before or very shortly after a Yes vote. The markets will demand it, and there is not a thing the unionists can do to avoid it.
If a week is a long time in politics, then the next two look set to provide some momentous changes in UK politics. The wind is at the backs of the Yes campaign and there seems to be nothing that can stop it. That being the case, I expect a lot of Damascene conversions from Scottish Labour in the coming weeks as it becomes increasingly evident to even the most blindly devoted unionist that it’s all over bar the shouting; witness Lamont’s 11th hour backing of independence should Westminster ‘move against the Scottish Parliament’….a subtle maneuvering if ever I saw one. I expect the same re-positioning on currency too.
It’s difficult to imagine the UK parties taking this currency issue to the wire considering the potential damage it could cause to the UK economy in the short term. Would they really hold out to the last, even in defeat, in the hope of using it as a bargaining chip no matter the short term cost?
Exciting times.
I love alex salmond too. Wonderful human being.
Great when the money guys speak matter of factly about independence and the currency. Looks like independence is already factored in to their plans.
Wonder what they’re whispering to George and Danny? Get things sorted boys or it isn’t going to be pretty and you can forget about that ‘recovery’ you keep going on about.
Just beware folks… as BT will be getting desperate , so expect anything. I would put NOTHING past them.
Watch out for the BBC concentrating on the private members bill on the bedroom tax where some of the SNP MPs were missing.
Mags Curren, AKA Stairheed rammy, is ranting on about it.
Sadly Mr Brough will not get an invitation to appear on Pravda on the Clyde anytime soon with those kind of a remarks. A real shame as he nails the key points wonderfully well.
@ Oscar Taime
From the FT article
Bugger Le Panda5 September 2014 09:15
“Whether it was Eurozone stagnation, Scottish independence, or own property bubble collapsing, this is an economy almost designed to fail – at some point, and from some cause.”
The Euro is falling as we speak and the Central Bank is pumping meg €billions into the economies by buying up debt everywhere in Euroland.
Scotland votes yes and it will be the sluice gates opening rather than a squeaky bum for rUK and the shysters of Westminster.
Steviecosmic
‘Exciting times’
Your right mate! The whole history of Scotland and WE are right bang in a period that will be as monumental as anything gone before.
What does Not Scots oil mean to the balance of payments or, exports minus imports on the old teamGB current account?
link to theguardian.com
No currency union, rUK current account slips further into the red and what happens when you do that with a personal account, bigger deb, higher interest rates, compounding like a bastard, can’t borrow any more, no none wants to lend you, rescission gets worse, prices jump, earnings fall, unemployment jumps up, IMF cap in hand. All of this happened in the mid 70’s for teamGB but they had a get of jail card, Not Scots oil.
History always repeats itself and last time round teamGB didn’t have one of biggest national debt’s the world has ever seen. Which is why Mr Brough is so relaxed about Flipper’s cast iron guarantee there really will be no CU, honest.
@liz
I don’t know the story, but the SNP MPs should not have missed a vote on the bedroom tax. We all know what a troll and careerist Curran is, but they really should have seen that one coming. I hope they have a good explanation for this.
Next thing we’ll hear will be the nohopers led by Brown telling us a bill is being rushed through parliament.
Special powers for the Scottish parliament yadayadayada.
link to reuters.com
Have quick look at the online Record poll.
YES 86%
NO 16%
@ 4.56 pm
@Conan
A 102% turnout. I knew they would fiddle the postal vote!
Crikey, just had a look at WoS Twitter and a female UKIP supporter is calling Wings/Yes Nazis and racist! Other No supporters are really ramping up the Nazi rhetoric against Yes as well. Nice bunch…
@Sinky
Gordon Brown threatening to turn up at Westminster in the event of a No vote.
What is big bruiser Brown/great clunking fist going to do there?.. 😀 😀
The missing SNP MPs could be because it is not being applied up here , and it looks like we will get indy… maybe not , just a thought
muttley…. the UKIP supporter also said vote no to authoritarian seperatists… you couldn’t make it up 🙂
Did Ed vote according to mad Mags? I am sure I saw him with JoLa today in Scotland. Since it is offset in Scotland does it matter? Nice of Labour to turn up though unlike the first time. They still think it is about Parties, incapable of change.
Conan, can you provide a link to it, I’ve just been on their website looking for it and can’t see it anywhere. Second attempt too, an earlier link didn’t bring it up either.
Just to concur with BigRik:
Just beware folks… as BT will be getting desperate , so expect anything. I would put NOTHING past them
…….. So steady everyone, we’re about to be money grabbing nazis and a lot worse… if this is what the financial guys in London are thinking I wouldn’t go near Johann Lamont’s toilet for a while.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Strange days… 36 years old and I just bought my first Daily Record. It’s a great paper – why have you all been knocking it for so long?
I’ve read that Record poll a few times just to be sure, but isn’t it just asking if people will vote rather than how they will vote?
@BtP at 4.06
May not be UKIP to worry about first.
You are forgetting your Classical history…
Et Tu Borus?
We were in Asda’ in Dunfermline, and I idly gazing at the headlines in the gutter press while I waited for slowcoach, and it struck me the only paper turned away so it was upside down to the reader was, yes you’ve guessed it, the DAILY RECORD, so some mean spirited little unionist was making it had to read yes upside down,
It may be they couldn’t decipher an upside down yes so obviously no one else could, IDIOT.
@Gareth
LOL! Just had a re-read myself. All bets off eh?
Don’t get me wrong I have worked down south and many English are decent and I feel sorry for them as unlike Scotland they haven’t seen through the lies and bullshit they are being fed.. but when they start to really financially struggle (without us) I can’t wait til they demand answers.. and the only answer will be that Scotland DID subsidise them!!!
Good luck with that one Westminster!
Conan, thanks but still don’t see a poll. Getting a survey which I’d rather not click on. Maybe poll will come up after I do survey. Ah well, Yes storming it anyway.
Harry, your probably using IE as your browser. Try firefox.
@
Dr JM Mackintosh
New Coalition?
Or more specific IE9
Anybody the video of Lord George Roberston on SS’s program on BBC last night?
Did he really say “Scotland – a minor entity in the North of Britain”.
@Dr JM Mackintosh
link to youtube.com
dr. jm
link to m.youtube.com
@ muttley79:
5 September, 2014 at 4:56 pm
@liz
I don’t know the story, but the SNP MPs should not have missed a vote on the bedroom tax. We all know what a troll and careerist Curran is, but they really should have seen that one coming. I hope they have a good explanation for this.
Regarding the above:
I would say they (SNP MPs) are out on the streets in overdrive, campaigning for an independent ALBA where there will be NO bedroom tax – they don’t have to justify this omission this time!
RHYDDID i’r ALBAN / Freedom for Scotland!
(Our rallying call from a NATO (love-)bombed CYMRU/wWles!!
@Dr JM Mackintosh
I find it odd, but again, not unexpected, that Scotland 2014 is the only current affairs prog that isn’t available on iPlayer.
Tam Jardine.
I would temper my feelings buddy , wait till tmoz. This is the rag chucking out the Jim Murphy got “Pelted” msg.
Still it’s nice to see some positivity making the headlines and no more scares.
I watched G.Robertson last night on BBC, He was talking utter shite and i thought i should be angry but if you watch it again and look at the fud, Desperation pouring out of every pore (Oops ) and that’s all it is. he must have bored the pish out of folk with his doom and gloom.
They really do know they have lost and don’t know what to do.
Milliband here talking SNP or Labour and it’s fuck all to do with that. They are a runaway train waiting to crash into …… anything.
I know we should not jump the gun but i have. We can not lose now. They shoot their foot every day. The Union “Groundhog day” .
Just had a couple of NO canvassers at the door. Solid YES says I. How about rest of the house, Solid YES says I.
Thats the first No bods I have seen canvassing, had a women two days on the trot putting leaflet through the door but that has been it.
We are canvassing our town on Sunday so will be very interested in result.
I visited my dear old mum yesterday. Initially a definite NO, she has, after a year as an “Undecided” now swung fully to YES. I was preparing a WBB for her but it looks like I’m too late!
I also wanted to mention to her about the rumour of a massive oil discovery west of Shetland, but she already knew about it. She also mentioned how nasty and aggressive certain NO supporters were becoming, attacking people in the street etc.
Now, my mum does not do social media, so I am wondering where she got this info from? Word is getting out – it’s already spilling on the streets and people are talking.
My sister is YES at heart, but she is very worried about her job (Benefits office – UK controlled) – any ideas how to reassure her?
Her partner, one of those classic haters of Alex Salmond, has been following the debates and to our surprise, now confesses to being more undecided, actually moving to YES, on the basis that their arguments make more sense.
With less than two weeks to go, people are starting to think long and hard about it, and when they do, they see the stark choice in front of them: Hope or Fear.
@Clootie
Best comment ever. 😀
I wonder if Ed Balls is writing his resignation yet? 😀
today on twitter from scottish labour.
Two hours still no answer from @theSNP on naming one redistributive policy in their White Paper? #indyref #LabourNo.
answer;1, it’s not about the snp, we are not electing a government.
answer;2 independence you clowns!
those who have vested interests in the currency markets will always see the woods for the trees.
@BtP
first out will be the Lib-Dem – on the Morning of the 19th.
Bye bye – Carmichael and Danny Tory Boy.
Cameron out over the weekend.
Some old duffer MP resigns a safe seat for position in The Lords.
Boris in Parliament by Start of December to claim Tory leadership.
May 2015 Boris – Nigel coalition ?
Yes you could be right.
and they’re off with the snp no show for bedroom tax vote. Think this stinks? I do
link to scotsman.com
Tam Jardine says:
5 September, 2014 at 5:25 pm
Strange days… 36 years old and I just bought my first Daily Record. It’s a great paper – why have you all been knocking it for so long?
It has been about 36 years since I bought a DR, but I did today. I had to go to two shops as they were sold out in the first one.
Strange times.
Hi everyone. First post!
I had a meeting late last week with one of Mr Brough’s colleagues, another senior chap. As of the end of last week, which was a good few days after the second debate but just very shortly before the latest YouGov poll was published, the official Schroders position was that the referendum would be close but No would win. They did not expect that opinion to change.
Some time between then and Mr Brough’s appearance on Bloomberg, something has changed their minds.
A week is indeed a long time in politics.
By the way, as things hot up, we will see a few more firms like Goldmans and Schroders coming out with an opinion and a lot more just making noise. Don’t forget that a Yes vote will be a bonanza for investment bankers – all those assets and liabilities to be valued, negotiated and divided – so I’m sure they will all be positioning themselves as best they can to win a share of the work.
O/T re Tesco price hikes
link to fullfact.org
Jim Thomson
Never knew that I wonder what the possible reason could be astonishing.
I see the 2nd carrier ‘Prince of Wales’is to be built and fully commissioned I wonder what the possible reason could be astonishing.
@Luigi
RE: Your sister. I’d say her position is pretty safe. The SG initially will use as much existing infrastructure and trained knowledge base as humanly possible. The thought of them trashing a perfectly workable piece of necessary civic admin is fairly remote.
O/T Hi everyone, something odd going on at Ladbrokes – no longer taking bets on indy referendum. Probably just the odds changing, but you never know; some insider knowledge maybe?
Thanks Nana & bfh
I just love WOS.
Nana Smith
it’s taken them long enough?
why now?
just a point scoring ploy.
they’ve lost and know it or they would be up in scotland spreading their gospel.
bedroom tax is already mitigated in scotland.
I have a theory and I’d be interested in your opinions since I’m not the brightest star around here. I think Alex Salmond played a blinder in making sure the third option wasn’t present on the ballot. I’m now thinking he might have pulled a similar trick as regards currency. Namely, that Plan B is actually his preffered Plan A and that he won’t go for a currency union at all. Is 18 months enough time to float our own currency? It would surely be underpinned by apparently massive oil reserves after all. It keeps bugging me why the NOB’s were so persistent in haranguing us for Plan B.
Or do I have too much time on my hands? I know a lot of you people are more knowledgeable about financial matters than myself so I’d appreciate some feedback.
@fred blogger
Probably a ploy to try and discredit the snp, after all the nohopers have nothing else.
Why are there no new polls ?
At the Record:
“They were both supported by our staff, who assisted in the layout and presentation of the pages so that what you read is legal, legible and well laid out.”
Then ask a question:
“Will you be voting in the independence referendum on September 18?”
Giving the options “YES and NO”
Is it a typo? Or do they only want to know if you are going to vote, not how?
I think we should be told…
@R-type Grunt
The FM has never, to my knowledge, expressed his personal preference, only the recommendation of the FCWG. I’d hate to play poker with the man. 😉
O/T OH for crying out loud, what a disgusting lying…..
link to mirror.co.uk
Just had BT at the door. Thought ‘ya beauty, i’ll reel them in and see what they haver to say for themselves’ (haver was a typo but seems appropriate).
Big flaw in my plan was the fact i’d left my ‘AYE’ badge on.
Good news though is that a colleague i had down as a definite No has informed me she sent her YES postal vote off yesterday. She explained that though she is from leafy middle england she values the way of life and people in Scotland and wants us to make our own future. I’m delighted 🙂
Harry and Conan,
The poll you are referring to isn’t a Yes no to independence it was “a whether you were going to vote or not” hope that clears that up for you.
Darlings biggest mistake was pursuing a 2nd debate rather than quitting while ahead. I honestly didn’t think a 2nd debate would happen if he “won” the first one. BTs arrogance got the best of them though and they fell into a trap. A smarter outfit would have played it safe, rather than charging into the breach in an attempt to finish Salmond off. Salmond ultimately played on their biggest weakness, arrogance, and unleashed a fatality on the night he needed to.
@ Paul
A bit disingenuous then isn’t it?
Nana Smith, yes. r type grunt.
arrogance, seeds of self doubt, pointless distraction, fog, smoke, and mirrors, is all they ever had.
we now see the bigger picture, and can keep an eye on it. 🙂
link to theguardian.com
re the reason for SNP missing votes – pete wishart is on twitter, seems to be a delayed flight and the vote closing earlier than expected. He’s certainly getting a hard time of it from bt lot.
dr jm
do you have sky –catch up tv?
type in search Scotland 2014
and you will get replays
link to twitter.com
I thought Andy Brough meant Scotland’s economy was not large enough, for it’s loss to threaten Sterling. Anyway, he’s unlikely to say yes, even if he thought it would. I’m sure he has considerable holdings in Sterling and he knows causing doubt and uncertainty is in nobody’s interest. Not that that ever stops No Better Together Thanks..
muttley79
You’re talking about the tube, who’s twitter bio read:
Never understood politicians who surrendered rule to foreigners. Don’t trust any of them. Only UKIP can restore sovereignty. No place for independent Scotland.
I thought this tweet to himself was particularly unhinged, scary even. I wonder if he will switch to Tory once BoJo takes over?
David Bushby ?@david_bushby
Sad fact, democracy can be self defeating. Too many given vote who will not think using emotion only. Reduction to lowest common denominator
To all talking about the vote in the DR – there are several different votes and the one for Yes/No in the referendum is under the Elaine C. Smith interview which is currently at 87% Yes.
True or raising expectations to dash later?
Ex Mirror:‘A poll this weekend is expected to show the Yes campaign has taken the lead for the first time since campaigning began.‘
link to mirror.co.uk
and
ex Guardian ‘Speculation is growing that a survey this weekend will show a significant lead for the yes campaign for the first time.‘
link to theguardian.com
Listening to steve keen last night, he mentions that the main problem with the uk economy isn’t its national deficit , it’s the amount of private debt in relation to GDP.
I think the uk economy is officially buggered without oil.
We the tax payer are forced first to fund another housing bubble via ‘help to buy’ getting more of us into personal debt and of course we as tax payers are forced to underwrite it. It can’t go on forever.
@bfh
I used to have virgin but switched it off and stuck it in the attic when I stopped my TV licence.
TV aerial was replaced by a Saltire.
So we watch stuff on iplayer, etc. which is fine for most things. Missing Sarah Smith is not really much of a loss.
I actually like is much better as we used to have TV on all the time. Better now listening to music or just peace and quiet.
Still a decision to make if a Yes – do I start paying my licence again – Mmm?
If No – TV will be off for ever.
Daily Record poll 85% Yes, Mirror 32% Yes. Brown no holds barred now.
link to mirror.co.uk
Marvellous to hear all this outpouring of love towards Alec Salmond and the confidence in the victory of good over evil but there are two weeks to go and the Brutish Empire has never gone down easily. Vigilance and renewed effort is called for.
If yes wins – and I want to believe it will – Alex and the Scottish government will have a much stronger hand to play in the ensuing negotions if Yes wins 60-40 rather than 51-49. Although victory looks within grasp the negotiations after will be hard, vicious and involving no “love Scotland” letters at all. Make Scotland not just the winner of the “war” but also the victor of the “peace” – keep campaigning until the very last moment.
ScottieDog
This is old but still relavant.
link to info.moneyweek.com
bookie from hell scotland2014
ON NOW ..
Parliament channel freeview (now 131)
Followed by more from past week
Sky News just played the Northern Ireland card: If Scotland votes Yes the Troubles will begin again in NI. Please, our “Scottish brothers and sisters” vote No.
Sickening.
I meant different surveys.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Doesn’t anybody else worry that if the financial markets want currency union they are not doing that because it will be good for Scotland? It will be good for them.And no, I do not agree they are smart, though I do think they are hedgehogs rather than foxes: they only have one trick: getting rich by ripping us off
This I found on the YES Glenrothes facebook page. We must be aware of the BT dirty tricks.
QUOTE
We have had reports that people are knocking on doors at 7am and claiming to be Yes Scotland representatives. We would like to make it clear that we do not knock on doors that early and that anyone doing this is not one of our team. We would ask that if you do get someone knocking on your door at an early hour claiming they are part of our group, please get in touch and we will investigate the matter.
UNQUOTE
The Lib Dems did this in a by-election in Dunfermline West when Willie Rennie won his seat at Westminster. They (lib dems) put SNP leaflets through people’s door in Limekilns and Charleston at 2am on the day of the vote.
Brown also warned that an independent Scotland which kept the pound would be in a “colonial” relationship with the rest of the UK.
relating to or characteristic of a colony or colonies.
“British colonial rule”
bfh–that means were under colonial rule now?
Liquid Lenny
link to tinyurl.com 😉
Awww…poor wee yohann only got 3 pals 🙂 link to scotsman.com
C4 news vote NO or else intro, “the Scot has a vey big chip on his shoulder and they blame the English” vox pop in Sky. Oftentimes on CIF, it’s who the hell do you arrogant bastards think you are anyway, so it’s a puzzle alrightee.
Fiona
If we are achieving a bit of a social revolution here, might an element of incremental-ism not help smooth out some bumps? Personally, I would like Scotland to distance itself as much as possible, from the practices of he City. I’m not convinced that will be easy though.
Ch4 news about to do a piece on Indy. Just caught the preview but it looks to be playing the anti-English card.
In St Andrews yesterday with IVAN the yes wagon a fellow came up with a novel idea. Wonder wht we all think about it.
He said when we are independent we should offer RUSSIA an airbase, perhaps Leuchars.
Somebody can help me here. On the BT website they have the graphic for the Tesco price check.
They have two till receipts. Same items on both.
One says £65.59 with a splash on it saying 30% dearer.
The other £50.31 with a splash saying 30% cheaper.
Can they both be right?
Well if both are correct, we ain’t independent officially, yet.
This is welcome news of course, but I’m just a little wary about how suddenly the media position has changed. Yes, I know it’s based on the recent official poll, but I still find this weird.
Many articles now suggest that Yes will win. The media campaign appeared coordinated to throw confusion and uncertainty on the debate and bring fear to voters, yet they have suddenly declared that Yes looks likely to prevail.
Are they trying to scare what they see as ‘protest voters’? Are they saying “OK you’ve won, your point has been made, so please vote no”? Are they trying to provoke complacency amongst yes voters?
Or, have they suddenly started reporting the truth for its own sake?
I was getting quite jealous of reading on here about people’s experiences of seeing friends /colleagues becoming Yes – bit now I’m seeing it, up in Aberdeen.
Colleague has gone from having a no thanks twibbon to talking on Facebook about being undecided – have sent her a link to the WBB.
Have given my friend a WBB (thanks Yes Aberdeen!). Her daughter has read it and taken it to her work, and her no-voting colleague is now not voting.
Have handed out my last 2 WBBs to the in laws and an undecided colleague.
I’m seeing so much more discussion on Facebook, and a colleague I had down as a hard no has been walking around with a Yes badge on.
Things are happening, there’s a buzz now – I feel a lot more confident about initating conversations, and giving people simple facts, or a different perspective seems to work.
Sorry for slightly meandering post, not sure if it’s contributing anything but just wanted to share!
Seneca
saving face, they want to be seen to be on the winning side edging their bets now.
keep going strong, till the 19th and then don’t go home.
for me winning the right to elect our own independent government, is the start of scotlands democratic journey, not the end of it.
Seneca, its virtually certain they’ve seen the writing on the wall and are saving face.
Even The Scotsman (spits) came out for the SNP on the actual day of the 2011 elections.
These newspapers don’t want to alienate readership and the best way to do that is to appear on the losing side.
My partners daughter asked her friends on face-book what she should vote in the interests of her three kids(me too?) and got 12 for YES and 2 for NO within half an hour.
@ Scottishdragon
Good to hear the ice is melting where you are but I too will not be happy until the moment YES is declared.
Re Ch4 news, I think it was the same on the Andrew Neil show when he was taken apart by the Yes woman re the NHS, Nick Ross started going on about ‘chips’ on our shoulders etc and I stopped listening.
I think this could be preparing the rUK if we vote Yes, where they will say we’re better off without them etc.
liz
funny how they always describe symptoms as root cause.
chips go, as WM goes, funny that.
@ScottishDragon
Delighted to read that. Love it
@Seneca
I don’t really read the ‘formal’ media anymore (if I can call it that), but it doesn’t sound as sinister as you suspect. Looks like they’re just wanting to back the winner
link to facebook.com
This is who Ruth Deech is.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Deech,_Baroness_Deech
Anyone looking for WBB? – I have ordered 6000 from Stuprint and would be able to send in box quantaties directly to those which need them.
Superb little indy rap :-
link to facebook.com
Box quantities even! 10Kg, 25Kg etc
Re., the bedroom tax bill ,have you all fogotten that when Maggie Curran put her bill up to abolish it 10 of her fellow labour M.P s. Did not turn up to vote for it ,so I would not be bothered about the S.N.P. Not bothering about this one .,O.T. Cameron who has one m.p. In the whole of Scotland is taking us into another probably illegal war surely that alone will increase the yes vote lets get rid of these madmen once and for all . vote yes
Tesco makes statement.
link to bbc.co.uk
Standing in the security line at Bristol airport today I heard a lady being asked how she would vote.
‘I will be voting NO’
and then to top it off she went for the too stupid gambit
‘They don’t realise the implications of what they are doing’
I was too stunned at someone pulling the too stupid line to even intervene with some facts. To be fair I don’t think my intervention would have changed anything as she then waffled on about moving south when the yes vote happens and that she jokes with her grandchildren that she would be a refugee.
Still, too stupid, not heard that in a while.
@call me dave – that’s what I call a grudging report from the BBC – what’s new – ‘playing down’.
But then they quote the oracle Jackie Baillie.
I’m sure Jackie Baillie will help to keep food prices down 😛
During the past two years, Westminster, the MSM and various pollsters have been desperate to show that NO will win comfortably, in an effort to stall any momentum toward YES. Now that it is obvious their sneaky, manipulative ploy has failed, they are now desperate to manage down expectations and gently ease to predicting a close, or even a YES result. Something similar happened in 2011.
After all, they don’t want to look complete idiots on September 19th, do they?
And oh, there is also the little matter of a vulnerable pound to watch out for.
Had a dream last night that a BT scare story turned out to be true.
@Call me, dave
If they send in JaBa to bat on a story, what do you instantly know about the story?
Its a lie
O/t for Alan in Yes Moffat. Your mum got the box of Wbb’s. Thanks for contact.
@ luigi.
I agree with above comment re civil servant jobs. Probably safer in iScotland than remaining in UK given cuts promised.
What is constantly omitted from Better Together, or No Shame as I prefer to call them, narrative is that Scotland already pays for top and other civil servant jobs in London. We would need these here and some more when we get independence.
Scotland pays a fair share to run the UK. With these jobs relocated here the local economic benefits would be here not in London property/entertainment /etc market. It’s a win win as most yes know.
James Caithness
Never heard that one before, it used to make me very angry but it’s like water of a ducks back. Not long to go now.
That Tesco release does have a tinge of the grudge about it liz but people power works and Baillie is just adding fuel to the pyre which is BT.
Off to watch Coventry V Gillingham
I’ll stick link on O/T just started.
O/T – It looks like STV have made Peter Curran (@moridura) take down STV IndyRef clips from his YouTube channel:-
link to twitter.com
Scottishdragon at 7:17 –
The mood up here’s changing for the better for sure. I’ve had my Yes lanyard on at work for about six months now. Yesterday somebody complemented me on it. I asked if he wanted one, too, and he nearly had my arm off. Dropped three at his desk this morning and they were gone quickly. Passed on nearly all of my Wee Blue Books and they’ve all gone down well. Then earlier I had to stop in Torphins on the way home. Was about to cross the street but had to wait for a Transit van. It had a Yes sticker in the front window. Into the Copie to get some cash and there’s a boy walking out with Yes badges on. Complement him on them. The a few minutes later I’m heading up Learney Hill and there’s a SAAB convertible coming towards me. With a Yes sticker in the front windscreen…
@
James Caithness
Not Deech again?
FFS
Just a thought could Scottish Labour’s slogan for the next election be “Buy one – get one free”. After all there will be a lot of them coming free!! Or am I being a bit Liberal with the facts?
If the referendum result is a mirror image of the posters in windows in my street in stirling then we are going to be disapointed. It looks as if its only gonna be a 95% yes and not the 96% i was hoping for.
It’s funny, I used to think that the only people who misguidedly believed that No would win were politicians and the media, now I don’t think even they believe it anymore.
Quentin Quale says:
Had a dream last night that a BT scare story turned out to be true.
That was NOT a dream Quentin what you experienced was in fact a NIGHTMARE! 😛
I’m getting seriously pissed with the internet these days. I write posts and the disappear or go into moderation or as has just happened NOTHING then when I go to send the post I’m told it has already been submitted! ARGH!
Quentin Quale says:
Had a dream last night that a BT scare story turned out to be true.
That was NOT a dream Quentin what you experienced was in fact a NIGHTMARE! 😛
Dammit I’m getting far too stressed out here, think it might be because of the actions of certain individual in local group. My Stress/anger level is going through the roof. Macart I hope the “darkened Room” is open cause I definitely need a long lie down with a long, very long cool drink. 😉
Hard to guess Bt’s next move but pretty sure it will involve some heavy duty tunnelling equipment 🙂
OK folks it looks like wee Tory Rory thinks the referendum has been won … by the NO camp. 😛
link to plus.google.com
@ Calgacus MacAndrews
I was talking to Peter on Wednesday, he said he was having trouble downloading but never mentioned STV coming the heavy.
It looks like at someone has found a use for the latest Better whatsit campaign shite! 😛
link to mail.google.com
Paula’s back on site
this is a test to see if I am blocked???
A view from the Yorkshire Free Press on the Referendum;
link to yorkpress.co.uk
Out delivering “The Financial Facts” booklet in one of Edinburgh’s leafier suburbs this week I ran into a lady who returned her copy to me saying “I don’t need this because I am voting No.” I asked politely why she was doing that. “Well”, she said, “we’ve done pretty well over the last 300 years, and also I am proud to be British and want Britain to remain reunited.” Before I could say more she said, “but you are going to win anyway.”
It would appear blocked only if commenting on her posts.
link to facebook.com
Sos Rev O/T
James Caithness
James, I think you might be reading too much into unrelated events. The site’s spam filter seems to be a unique piece of design and there are ongoing spam and DDOS attacks, apparently.
Just persevier and you’ll get the hang of things. 😉
As I said earlier I was visited by BT canvasser at home. I would be interested where if at all I could view the BT canvas results for Cupar?
Anyone got any ideas?
Awaiting moderation again. So predictable Paula. hahahaha
“Awaiting moderation again. So predictable Paula. hahahaha”
For fuck’s sake. NOBODY CAN PUT ANYONE INTO MODERATION HERE EXCEPT ME OR THE SPAM FILTER.
Right thats me away.
@Lesley-Anne Lisqten to this wee song it’ll fair help with the stress 🙂
link to facebook.com
Apologies if this has already been posted but Martin Gilbert of Aberdeen Asset Management (£320bn fund)was interviewed on the R4 Today programme this morning.
Like Mr Brough very relaxed despite some persistent pushing from reporter about fears and uncertainties arising from the referendum. Martin made the point biggest uncertainty was around Europe.
Already voted he said but refused to say how. Judging by his manner I wouldn’t be surprised if he was yes!
Thanks for that Weedeochandorris. I certainly need something. I’m just back from a twoo week *ahem* break and I’m being driven insane by stupidity by certain folks and it is senseless. We’re all supposed to be on the same side but some folks seem to be getting the idea that it’s all about THEIR way and that’s it. 🙁
Thank gawd there’s only 13 days left to go cause the way this guy is going one of us is gonna end up somewhere we don’t want to be!
Looks live Iceland is warming to our forthcoming referendum celebrations.
That’s it stress level through the roof, into moderation again. Looks like I’m being considered a spam threat by someone somewhere. I’m off to the “Darkened Room” to lie down, start drinking something, anything and listen to the song Weeeochandorris linked to on a permanent loop. 😛
“Tesco plays down ‘Yes’ cost increase claim”
What an extraordinary and misleading use of language by the BBC. Playing down is not the same as denying or saying that something is completely untrue. The definition of “playing down” means to pretend that something that is actually important isn’t a big deal.
What Tesco actually said was “there is no truth in the leaflets”.
Well,
it was probably only 10 days or so ago that I posted here in resignation that the polls and my facebook page all indicated a clear ‘no’ majority.
Happy to say, no *delighted* to say the change has been enormous!
Facebook friends I thought were no or undecided have all started ‘liking’ my posts on indyref. The yougov poll was a belter and word is now the next poll will show a ‘yes’ lead!
Lamont saying she would go for indy, the Scotsman doing an anti-Lamont piece today, Bill Leckie changing from no to yes, a confirmed and staunch ‘no’ friend of mine now committed ‘yes’, bookies adjusting odds, chatter at work and with friends etc etc its all pointing to one outcome!
There used to be a wee darkened room over at NNS but wee all got thrown out.
@cynical highlander thanks for the link to iceland. Spectacular places there.
2nd half starting c u l8r
Right can anyone help me here, the posts that appeared to be blocked are now on show. I’ve been having a pop at Paula about that.
So why does this happen to my posts?
Secondly why do I keep getting the ”your comments awaiting moderation” irregularly?
Anybody.
James
The Rev has had to put in more safeguards against spam as has had a few attacks this week. There may be trigger words in your contribution that is being picked up by the security system and mistaking it for spam.
Lesley Anne
The site has been subject to a massive DDOS attack which Stu has been working on these past few days. My own posts are not appearing either..its not personal, it’s just a consequence of the DDOS.
Yes okay.
Sorry Paula.
Still I do pre-date the punk era.
Perhaps someone knows the approximate number of town hall meetings that have been attended by say Nicola or Tommy over the past couple of years?
That number would be useful to compare to the number of times Gordon Brown or John Prescott have been face to face with the scottish public? (not at some invite only event for No and labour)
Just a hunch, but I somehow doubt Blair’s cronies suddenly appearing with empty promises of ‘jam tomorrow’ – when there’s only two weeks to go – is a sign of anything other than outright panic from the No campaign.
O/T The American has his money.
link to gofundme.com
Maybe Wings can help him find the truth.
Iain Gray’s Subway Lament
TS at his meeting last night in Dundee said that was his 96th public Meeting.
With STV now showing its true triple colours in the words of G Monbiot this not a democracy we are living in.
Thanks Marcia. 🙂 Knew he was in the high 70’s a few weeks back or so, so that’s around what I expected.
Not much chance then of Brown or Prescott finally learning some respect for the scottish public considering how long they have been sitting on their arse not even bothering to talk directly to the people of scotland.
Tommy Sheridan, Lennoxtown this Sunday evening.
@Robert Kerr
Great to see he made his target and thank christ! Since we obviously need a counterbalanace to the likes of the Fox News idiots who will be arriving with the rest of the world’s media.
Will McLeod is pretty sharp. (as you can tell from his youtube that went viral) It’s also a fairly safe bet that someone who covered the Occupy movements won’t be scared to seek out and venture into the REAL scotland instead of just the picture postcard bits most of the world’s media will stick to.
We have no democracy and no country either acording to the nice English lady that C4 news kicked off their vote no stuff for the evening. The retired lady on her boat on the west coast said, with no idea whatsoever how rude she is, “there is no Scotland because other people have moved here”
All the self awareness of who know how many of her mind set have stated exactly the same thing about places they decide they own.
Maybe this is what really enrages so much of the teamGB media UKOK propaganda machine, it doesn’t exist, shut up, vote no and stuff like this
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
@Bugger(le)Panda ages back because I got blocked the first time
Yup sluice gates for much more than running our own affairs.
As someone somewhere wrote/said recently the US/UK’s unending thirst for war will have lead fairly directly to the break up of the Union. As we finally (re)join our neighbors the small state Scandinavian model may come to be seen as the optimal size for states and, hopefully the more interconnected 21st century will sweep away the isolationism of competing superstates like the US & Russia in favor of federations like Europe or, on a smaller scale, Switzerland (where I live).
Still not sure about how we get multilateral nuclear disarmament but hey Scotland has done much much more than it’s fair share of looking after bloody trident. Time for those hell bent on keeping their seat on the Security Council to have a go.
They’ll soon realize that “punching above one’s weight” doesn’t seem like such a great idea when the potential consequences are on yer doorstep.
link to theguardian.com
Graun post mortem autopsy, with big splashy tears of the clowns.
@Lesley-Anne
So long as you remember to re-stock the mini bar when you leave. You know what happened the last time when you started swallying and playing Dark Loch Nagar. 😀
I see Craig Murray’s nailed it again. Sorry no links from this gizmo, but you all no where to find him.
Heedtracker: Graun post mortem autopsy
Another plea for Scotland to remain the sacrificial casualty so that the empire can prosper.
@heed – We have no democracy and no country either acording to the nice English lady that C4 news kicked off their vote no stuff for the evening. The retired lady on her boat on the west coast said, with no idea whatsoever how rude she is, “there is no Scotland because other people have moved here”
Awfu pish did you see the numpty get dressed in the kilt and go tae the dance. They didn’t even attempt impartial they found the only 3 no voters in the hall and kept them behind to talk utter pish 🙂
Tried to post earlier. No success. Need to be moderated, apparently.
Andy Brough…UKIP
link to independent.co.uk
link to telegraph.co.uk
Bob Geldorf and the disaster that was live Aid. Bob should refrain from getting involved in the Scottish Independence debate.
link to caltonjock.com
@ Grouse Beater, there is way too much right to reign over them, although that alone would anger them. I’ve not heard the union will be defeated before either. “When I contemplate the prospect of waking up on 19 September to discover the union has been defeated, I can’t help but feel a deep sadness.”
If they’d turned the Lords in to an actual elected chamber, pushed through some banking regs for the City, scrapped Trident, stop calling Scotland the scrounger region, started HS2,3,4,5 etc actually here in Scotland, actually taxed the super rich, stopped voting fucking Tory so much and so on…
@liz says: 5 September, 2014 at 4:35 pm:
“I agree, at the time I wasn’t sure but AS is probably the cleverest politician of out time, he was playing a game of chess but Darling was playing tiddlywinks.”
Well I don’t hate to say it but … I did tell you all so. I clearly saw what Alex was up to. Alex makes few mistakes and, to be fair, to his opponents and supporters alike, it needs to be rather hard to see where Alex is going with any particular point. However, he is only human and both he and we shold never forget that.
Boris: Bob Geldorf and the disaster that was live Aid
The man who Dared to Face Up To Thatcher has come a long way since gaining a knighthood, from outspoken rebel to pillar of the establishment.
He, an Irishman, a man who should know a lot about the tight grip of English colonial policies and their result, tell the people of Scotland to vote against their best interests. I hope Midge Ure is chuckling. He too was instrumental in organising the Live Aid concert but somehow Geldorf stole the limelight and the honours.
@Oscar Taime says: 5 September, 2014 at 4:44 pm:
“Currency investors would apparently be “particularly concerned by the UK’s persistent current account deficit if this were no longer offset by North Sea oil revenues.”
Now there’s a surprise!
Aye!
Richt!
Sorry to burst the bubble but he’s wide boy from London. You know wot I mean, like. My fishmonger says he finking about that referendum thingy. He says NAW so he must be, kinda finking about it, which is more than me, like. I finking about the latest dross from Woking, like. Where ma pal, OBE gone, like?
@ Grousebeater.
Midge had a ponytail.
Bono Mk I had “Give us yor fokkin money”.
Nae contest.
Just saw a bit of the news on BBC ALBA and it appears that the Gaelic in the Coigeach/Achilitbuie area of the western highlands has reached the point where its extinction is quite imminent.
Oh fucking well done Britain. Better Together my arse.
OT – Jeanne Freeman on BBC paper review now.
Conan: Midge had a ponytail.
Bono Mk I had “Give us yor fokkin money”.
Entertaining.
I know them both, but Geldorf is a weak front man for any band – and I came to that conclusion well before he emceed Live Aid.
@James Caithness – I can’t see any comments from Paula
@Gareth says: 5 September, 2014 at 5:26 pm:
“I’ve read that Record poll a few times just to be sure, but isn’t it just asking if people will vote rather than how they will vote?”
Yes it is.
@Dr JM Mackintosh says: 5 September, 2014 at 5:39 pm:
“Did he really say “Scotland – a minor entity in the North of Britain.”
No video, JM, but yes he did.
@Liz – too long ago to follow.
Sorted now.
We’ll funnily enough I was at a local hustings last week represented for no by the local libdem mp Allan Reid and local MSP Mike Russell the village hall was packed mainly with locals including Bruno Schroder owner of Schroders ( he owns a Castle here) Mike Russell spoke very eloquently and was very well received, in contrast MR Reid was unbelievably poor so poor Schroder was staring at his own feet and slowly shaking his head as Reid addressed the meeting, he was possibly musing over the £30K donation he made to better no together, but I couldn’t be entirely sure, but I do suspect he had a briefing with his CEO regarding the future strategy for Schroders Bank.
Here is the vid of Robertson saying that
link to youtube.com
Has anyone seen the utter utter crap that’s in the Daily Mail?
Suggest when reading, to remove any throw-able objects from reach.
Basically its about an English couple who are leaving Scotland because of racist attacks. Now I have tried to find at least one collaborative story from another paper, yet cant find any.
The Mail article then goes on about abuse that Murphy has had to deal with.
link to archive.today
@Luigi
Re you sister. In the short term she will still be employed by the DWP until 2016. After that either the UK Gov’t shares the DWP backroom stuff (if that’s where she works) (a suggestion in the White Paper) or she will be part of the Scottish Civil Service, which will need not only it’s own DWP equivalent (hopefully a damn sight nicer) but other departments too so she may get a chance to transfer if she’d prefer
@fred blogger, @McHaggis, @Pin
I take your points. I may be wrong; my tinfoil hat is starting to chafe a little.
Fred, I like the phrase “Don’t go home”. Whatever the result, I hope it enters the new Scotland lexicon:)
@Edward
Invisible people.
This is possibly the most comprehensive review of the potential oil and gas reserves yet to be developed. The West of Scotland will be in for major capital works in the next few years meeting the needs of the Oil companies who will be building new rigs for the Atlantic oil. I hope Scot’s in the West of Scotland are awake. For my part the future does not include handing over the Atlantic oil to Westminster so they can blow the profit on grandiose schemes benefiting London and the South East and the expansionist agendas of MP’s who still view the UK as a major power in the world with a self appointed right to decide upon the fate of nations regardless of outcome.
link to scotsindependent.org
@Hood –
Robertson’s comments at Abertay University re Scotland’s (lack of) culture/language were bad enough, but this is worse.
George Robertson is walking, talking proof that the UK political system is irretrievably diseased.
“Scotland’s too small” seemed to be a sort of throwaway comment – like, “don’t worry about the international money markets, this isn’t even gonna cause a hiccup” which is absolutely fine. What DID make an impression on me was another throwaway – X-os? ICSOS? whatever that was – (I’m no financier, in case you couldn’t tell!) going from 10p to £70 – is that a tip? I’ve GOT to find out to what he was referring-there could be a vast profit to be made, folks!
But the absolute BEST comment was “For 46 labour MPs, it won’t be too great” – grand!
The “Chaotic” event he was referring to is, I’m sure, merely the activity that will occur on the trading floor of the London stock exchange on the morning of the 19th. The afternoon will almost certainly be relatively calm. Mainly due to the fact that the Scottish members will be a bit soporifically-inclined, for some unknown reason. Unknown to the MSM, that is, who will be, as usual, three weeks behind the actual events of the day…
Well I was very initially disappointed by Alex Salmond’s performance at the first debate. Then the next morning and as a chess player and knowing Alex Salmond plays the long game I thought I understood what he was up to. Few seemed to, and that convinced me even more, then at the second debate it was all over check and mate the king is dead suckered with the sacrificial giving of a powerful piece and position, they walked into a well constructed trap.
That made me smile, yet when I talked about this to many friends and even YES supporters after the second debate I found no one supporting my view,that this was his plan, they too were suckered ‘he was just off form in the first debate’……now we have someone else probably another chess player watching from the sidelines and understanding what was going on. It would appear that even with the best education that England can provide, they are not fit to set up the men on the board never mind compete on anything like an equal footing. This performance by Alex Salmond must place him in a strong position ‘mentally’ for the forthcoming negotiations. For sure for me it looks like he has more than a Plan B to spring on the other side. There is no doubt in my mind that the best player by a country mile Alex Salmond is playing for Scotland and that makes me feel confident as well as smile quite a lot.
Tommy 98 was at meeting to-night was going on to his 99th ,after our one
I was surprised today, very actually. My boss totally out of the blue texted me saying he was in fact now going to vote yes. He went on to explain that he was doing it for his one year old twins. I’ve never pressed him on anything unless he has asked me about something, he has watched our team go from mostly no voters to all yes bar 1 or 2 in the past couple of years and has heard many a work place debate on independence.
out and about in Glasgow today and was amazed to see so many yes signs in windows. Had three people comment on my yes badge too. All yessers. You can really feel it rising now, very exciting times. Important to get out there and convince as many folk as possible. I’ve got the week of the vote off work. Want to be part of the most exciting time this nation will see in centuries.
my brother was telling me he has been invited to a referendum party on the day. Hope he is prepared to party for a couple of days haha. Wish I owned an off license!
@ David i have said it before never underestimate wee eck he is a master politician real old school ,none and i mean none of the new style career politicians can compete with him and only an idiot like flipper would find himself trying to debate with eck ,ever wondered why Cameron ducked debating him lol
“What will your vote be in the independence referendum on September 18?” from the Daily Record and can be found here. link to dailyrecord.co.uk 86% YES at the moment
Alex Salmond will go down in history as one of the most astute politicians of our time. He has dedicated his fault life to Scotland and her right to self-determination. More, much more, than can be said for Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling or the eggceptional Jim Murphy.
Damn autocorrect it should read his adult life!
Anyone who remembers Lord Robertson when he was plain George Robertson, Full-Time Officer with the then GMBWU, would pay no heed of the man. I would love to hear his recollections of the time he represented his members at a Whisky bottling plant in Fife. I wonder if they would match mine, somehow I doubt it.