Questions and sort-of answers
Last week we highlighted the dismissive, contemptuous attitude of many Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs to questions from their constituents, an approach perhaps borne of the safe seats occupied by most of those concerned. However, some politicians from the three Unionist parties in Scotland do still deign to correspond with the electorate, and it would be unfair of us not to acknowledge and credit them for that.
Below, then, are the other responses that Wings readers received to a number of questions relating to independence that we suggested they might like to pose to their elected representatives way back in July. (We’ve given it six weeks, and it seems safe to assume that any who haven’t replied by now aren’t going to.)
It’s a lengthy read, but we think you’ll find it enlightening.
Our comments are in bold red type after each reply.
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1. Does Scotland – including its oil revenues, of course – contribute a larger share of the UK’s income than the share of UK spending it gets? (SHARE, not AMOUNT – debt which has to be paid back doesn’t count as “spending”.)
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“The last period for which full figures are available is the year ending 31st March 2013. In that year the UK as a whole ran a current budget deficit, including 100 per cent of North Sea revenue, of £91.9 billion (5.8% of GDP).
In the same year, with a full geographical share of North Sea revenue included, Scotland would have run a deficit of £12.1 billion (8.3% of GDP). (link)“
That wasn’t actually the question. The question had nothing to do with deficits, but was about the relative contributions of different parts of the UK. It would still be possible for Scotland to pay more than its fair share if both Scotland and the UK were in surplus.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“No. Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) detailing Scotland’s public finances for the 2012/13 financial year were recently published. This was quite significant as it highlighted a fall in oil revenues over the 12 months between 11/12. Revenue generated from the North Sea dropped by 41.5% in the course of one year.
The figures contained in the GERS report show that an independent Scotland would have a £4.4 billion deficit in comparison to 11/12. That is the whole budget for every school in Scotland. The SNP would be left facing a stark choice – either slashing public services or increasing taxes.”
Dodge. Deficits again. And sorry, who mentioned the SNP?
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“If you look back over the last 50 years, the answer to your question is ‘sometimes’. The answer of course depends upon oil. If you look at the Scottish Government’s Expenditure and Revenue Report (2011/2012) you will see that excluding North Sea oil, the Scottish Government’s revenues were £46.2bn.
Add on the oil revenues on a per capita basis (Scotland’s share of the UK population) and revenues are £47.2bn. Add on the oil revenues using the reports ‘illustrative’ geographical basis and they are £56.8bn. Spending in that year was £64.4bn. So without the oil, Scotland would have had a deficit of around 11%. With it, one of 2.3%.
Alex Massie has recently written on this subject, which you may find useful (link)“
A factual AND honest answer. Not bad at all.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“According to the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures 2012/13 produced by the Office for National Statistics Scotland, including its geographical share of oil revenues, contributes 9.1% of total UK revenue and receives 9.3% of total UK expenditure. Full figures can be found at the following (link)”
Misleadingly selective, but in itself true and relevant to the question.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“In absolute figures, which include non tax-based income and overseas tax receipts, Scotland receives a larger share of UK spending than it contributes. The 9.3% spending versus 9.9% of taxes figures are misleading as they do not include significant forms of other income. It is also worth noting that Scotland receives more funds per head of population than the other parts of the UK through the Barnett Formula.”
What are these “significant forms of other income”?
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“The latest figures from the Scottish Government showed that including all of its oil revenues, Scotland received 9.3% of UK spending (£65.2billion) and raised 9.1% (£53.2bn) of UK revenues. (link)”
Basically the same answer as Katy Clark’s. Who’s been cribbing?
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“We get more public spending because of the redistributive way the Barnett formula works – this is good thing. We pay and get more back.”
Um, right. That’s a big help, thanks.
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2. Regardless of whether YOU think it would be a good idea or not, is it true to say that an independent Scotland could continue to use Sterling as its currency if it chose, no matter what happened?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“If independent, Scotland could choose to use any currency it likes, including Sterling. Scotland is currently in a fiscal union with the rest of the United Kingdom. Separation would result in this fiscal union being terminated and Scotland would loose [sic] its right to participate in the decision making process of the Bank of England. Consequently, decisions would be made in the interests of the United Kingdom and not a separate Scotland.”
“If independent, Scotland could choose to use any currency it likes, including Sterling” Gosh, didn’t it take us a long time to get to this point, readers? Now everyone’s saying it.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“If we leave the UK, Scotland, and the rest of the UK become separate countries. Sharing the UK pound would need agreement with people in the rest of the UK to set up a Euro-style currency union. All the parties in the rest of the UK have said no to Alex Salmond’s Eurostyle currency union.
Indeed, the Governor of the Bank of England has said sharing the UK pound without sharing a tax system, as the SNP suggest, will not work. The SNP have refused to set out a plan B for what will replace the UK pound which would mean a separate Scotland would use the Euro or would have to set up an unproven separate currency.”
Pretty much a full house of all the No campaign’s proven falsehoods on currency packed into two compact paragraphs. Good work.
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Few sovereign countries use the currency of another country, since it represents an abdication of monetary control. Currency is about more than the notes and coins in your pocket. Without its own currency (or membership of the Euro) Scotland would be unable determine its own financial or monetary future, to set its own interest rates, and would have no Central Bank acting as a lender of last resort (critical in times of crisis).
Such a move would also spell the end of Scotland’s unique bank notes as we understand them, since their issuance is dependent upon the relationship between the Bank of England and Scotland’s note-issuing retail banks.”
So, um, was that “yes” or “no”?
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“An independent Scotland could use any currency which it chose to should there be a yes vote in September. Should an independent Scotland choose to use Sterling without a formal currency union with the rest of the United Kingdom it’s needs would not necessarily be considered when key decisions about Sterling (for example on interest rates or quantitative easing) were taken by the Bank of England.”
Can’t fault that. All true. Full marks.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“An independent Scotland would have three options for currency – to keep the UK pound, to join Eurozone or to create a separate currency. The only option for independent Scotland to keep the pound would be to adopt it informally because a formal currency union has been ruled out by all three main UK parties – it is not seen to be in the interests of the continuing United Kingdom or the new independent state of Scotland.
Using the pound informally will mean that an independent Scottish state will have no control over its monetary policy. With no ability to print money, a Scottish monetary authority could have at best only a limited function as a lender of last resort to commercial banks. This option would therefore impose severe constraints on monetary and fiscal policy and financial stability.
There are a number of states in the world, such as Montenegro, Kosovo and Puerto Rico, that use certain currencies without a formal currency union. It can work for small countries, although in the case of Montenegro, their use of Euro has caused some problems with their EU membership application. This option would be likely to be too constraining for a country of the financial complexity of an independent Scottish state. The status quo in terms of currency would not be one of the options.”
Second sentence iffy, otherwise also good.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“The pound is the currency of the United Kingdom. If there were to be an independent Scotland, it would be for the rest of the United Kingdom to decide whether there should be a currency union with that newly independent state. The current Chancellor, shadow Chancellor and Chief Secretary to the Treasury have ruled such a currency union out and the majority of people in England and Wales object to any such currency union.
The possibility of using the pound without a currency union is called ‘sterlingisation’ and was explicitly rejected by the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group (link). Sterlingisation would be a poor option in comparison to the stable pound we currently enjoy.”
A lie – the FCWG did NOT “reject” sterlingisation, merely said that it wasn’t ideal as a long-term option.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“The question is would any currency have the back up of the Bank of England or any other central bank. You could use any currency but without back up this would be fraught with problems.”
No, that wasn’t the question. We’re the ones who asked the question, we should know what it was. Nevertheless, “you could use any currency” does basically answer it.
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3. Your campaign keeps saying independence would make our family and friends in the rest of the UK “foreigners”.
Even if we accept that’s true, what’s wrong with foreigners? Would you love your granny or your nephew or your sister any less if they became “foreign”? If not, why does it matter?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“I’m British – it matters to me.”
The question was “why?”
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“The campaign of which I am part of have never said that independence would make our family and friends in the rest of the UK ‘foreigners’. I believe you are referring to comments which I am told were made at a hustings meeting in Fife by the Labour MP, Thomas Docherty. I was not present at the meeting and therefore cannot comment on what exactly was said.”
Wait, WHAT? Which campaign do you think you’re part of, Fat Squirrels Against Airguns or something? This site has an entire tag devoted to No types issuing dire warnings about independence making people “foreigners”, including your party leader (Johann Lamont), your campaign leader (Alistair Darling) and your shadow Scottish Secretary (Margaret Curran). You can’t just flat-out deny it’s happened.
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Many Scots have family spread around the globe, and since love knows no boundaries, I doubt this impacts upon their affection for their loved ones.”
Dodge. But in fairness, it’s been almost entirely Labour politicians who’ve played the “foreigners” card.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“As you highlight should Scotland become an independent country this could mean that a large number of families would comprise of people from different states for the first time.
While of course this would not change how these individuals felt about one another it could however create a number of logistical difficulties arranging healthcare, obtaining benefits, obtaining visas for overseas travel etc, which are not currently in place. In many instances these difficulties would not be insurmountable but it would be naïve to suggest that they would not exist.”
Dodge.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“By the virtue of Scotland and the remaining United Kingdom being separate states, our friends and family members would become foreigners. There is nothing wrong with foreigners and I am very supportive of diversity. The problem comes from the fact that it is difficult to ascertain the relationship and border arrangements between an independent Scotland and rUK, however, it is likely that the freedom of movement may be affected, as discussed in my next point.”
A highly questionable assertion.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“Having shared institutions and common citizenship across the United Kingdom not only has practical benefits but has contributed to closer social bonds over the last centuries.”
Dodge.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“Yes I loved both my grannies.”
Dodge.
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4. In your view, would the rUK really build and patrol a 100-mile long physical barrier of some sort across the border if an independent Scotland had a different immigration policy?
And if so, what would you estimate as the construction, manning and maintenance costs of such a barrier?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“If immigration rules differ significantly on either side of some future border, then that border will need to be policed. If one party is within the Schengen agreement and the other is not, then the European Union would require certain actions to be taken, such as those which currently happen between the UK and France for example.”
Dodge.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“If an independent Scotland had markedly different immigration policies then the UK Government have said that they would not allow Scotland to join the common travel area that the UK and Ireland share because that relies on closely-aligned immigration rules.
That would ultimately mean border controls after independence and force Scotland to join the EU’s Schengen agreement. How border controls would be implemented and the cost of this would be a matter for the UK and Scottish Governments.”
Well, no. If it’s the (r)UK government that wants a barrier, it’s up to the (r)UK government to pay for it and run it. West Germany didn’t pay for the Berlin Wall.
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Were Scotland to become independent, a new frontier would exist. It is the policy decisions north and south of the border that would determine the nature of the border.
The UK and Ireland (together with the Crown Dependencies) currently operate a Common Travel Area (CTA), allowing for the free movement of people across the various territories. Importantly both the UK and Ireland secured an opt-out from the Schengen Agreement (Treaty of Amsterdam), since the adoption of the Schengen Agreement by one partner would have ended the CTA. It remains to be seen whether Scotland could secure a Schengen opt-out.”
Complete dodge. The question specified the scenario that Scotland DID have a different immigration policy. The question was whether in that instance the rUK would build Hadrian’s Wall 2 and what it would cost.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“Should the UK and Scottish Governments decide to pursue significantly different immigration policies it is possible that a tightening of border controls between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom would occur. This is a further example of the logistical difficulties which I referred to above. The extent and cost of these measures would of course be a matters for future UK and Scottish Governments.”
Dodge.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“It is difficult to predict the immigration policy of an independent Scotland, which would need to be decided by the government of the day. If an independent Scotland wants to join the European Union it would, like all other new member states, have to sign up the Schengen Agreement.
Currently, the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland are not part of the Schengen Area and passport controls are in place if someone from the UK or Ireland is travelling to a Schengen zone state. A physical border would have to be erected for an independent Scotland to meet the rules to join the European Union. I would expect that responsibility to fall on Scotland, not the continuing United Kingdom.”
Lie. There is no evidence that Scotland would be forced into Schengen against its will, and such a move would make no sense. It is absolutely not true that “a physical border would have to be erected for an independent Scotland to meet the rules” to join the EU.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“Currently the UK, Republic of Ireland, Channel Islands and Isle of Man form the Common Travel Area (CTA). The UK and Republic of Ireland were both given opt-outs of the EU Schengen Area, but it is not clear whether this opt-out would be given to an independent Scotland as all new member states are normally required to join.
Should an independent Scotland be required to join Schengen a boundary would be required. Furthermore, members of the CTA all share closely linked immigration policies, whereas the SNP has suggested its approach would be materially different to the rest of the UK (pg. 267-271 of Scotland’s Future – link).”
A much more honest answer on Schengen, but a dodge on the question.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“I don’t think a new border wall is going to happen because we will not need it when we Vote No on September 18th.”
Dodge with a sneer thrown in. Bonus.
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5. The McCrone Report was kept from the Scottish public by successive Labour and Conservative governments for 30 years to prevent them knowing how rich Scotland would be if it were independent.
Are you aware of any similar documents relevant to the independence debate which are currently designated secret?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“Reports written by civil servants have no status until they have been adopted by the Government of the day. This report does not have the significance attributed to it by ‘yes’ campaigners.”
Dodge. And a weird one at that – McCrone didn’t recommend any policies, merely provided data the government then suppressed.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“No.”
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“No.
I would be curious to read Mr Salmond’s legal advice on EU membership, though.”
Miaow!
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“I am not aware of any documents relevant to the independence debate currently designated secret.”
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“Professor Gavin McCrone – a former chief economic advisor to the Scottish Office – has stated that was the policy at the time not to publish any speculative reports, such as his. He has also stated that the situation in Scotland and in the rest of the world has changed greatly and his findings would no longer apply. He has also stated that an independent Scottish state would not be able to afford to set up an oil fund due to economic upheaval caused by independence.”
Dodge. That wasn’t what we asked.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“Ministerial advice from civil servants is automatically and routinely classified by both the UK and Scottish governments. In specific reference to the McCrone Report, oil projections used in it were in the public domain. The SNP itself used them as a central component of their election campaigns in the 1970s.”
And again.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“Yes all the legal advice the Scottish government has asked for about the cost and practicalities of setting up a separate Scotland – all kept secret by the SNP govt.”
And again, dodge with added sneer and “SNP BAD!” thrown in.
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6. If I vote No in September, can you guarantee that in five years’ time Scotland will still be in the European Union?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“There is likely to be a referendum on EU membership within 5 years. If Scotland remains within the Union, we will have the opportunity to participate in that decision. Five years may be long enough to negotiate a separate Scotland’s entry to the European Union, but there is no guarantee.”
A bit all over the place. Seems to be a “no”, though.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“The SNP appear to think that an independent Scotland would have a ‘seamless transition’ to European Union membership. This is not the case. The President of the European Commission and European Council has publicly stated that it would ‘difficult, if not impossible’, for a separate Scotland to join the EU.
The SNP argue that rather than applying for membership under Article 49 of the Lisbon Treaty, an independent Scotland would be added as a ‘continuing’ member state using a procedure set out in Article 48. The major flaw in their argument is that Scotland is not the Member State – the UK is – and therefore if there is a Yes vote in September, Scotland would have to wait until it formally left the union in 2016 when it would gain sovereignty and then apply for EU membership at that time.
During this limbo period, Scots would be stripped of EU membership losing the benefits of freedom to travel along with all the other benefits which come with being a part of the EU. There is also no guarantee that Scotland would be successful in gaining EU membership as other EU Member states may veto Scotland’s membership bid.
Scottish Labour wish to see Scotland, as part of the United Kingdom, continue in the EU.
I am campaigning to return a Labour Government at the next UK general election in 2015. Labour’s position on Europe can be summarised below:
The next Labour Government’s priority will be dealing with the cost of living crisis not getting out of the EU; Labour will reform the EU so it works better for Britain because we can do better than the status quo;
Labour will introduce a new law to stop powers transferring to Brussels without the British people having a say; The law will guarantee that no power can be transferred from Britain to the EU without an in/out referendum;
Labour has no proposals to transfer powers so an in/out referendum could be possible, but very unlikely.
So in answer to your question, the only thing that is stopping Scotland having guaranteed membership of the EU in 5 years’ time is the SNP’s dogged determination to rip Scotland out the United Kingdom at any cost.”
(Her emphases.)
Jings. We only asked for a yes or no, and we didn’t mention the SNP. But it’s interesting to have a Labour MSP state unequivocally that Scots would be stripped of EU membership and lose all related privileges during any “limbo period”, and also that Scotland would have to wait until March 2016 to even begin the application process.
Wait, not “interesting”. The other thing. “Stupid”.
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Scotland, along with the rest of the UK, will have an opportunity to determine its relationship with the EU in a referendum. This constitutional matter – similar to Scotland’s determination of its future – is best addressed through a referendum. The people should answer the question.
Again, similar to the Scottish referendum, it is important that in the period preceding the vote all sides are able to make their case. The Prime Minister has made clear that he believes the UK should remain in the EU, but not at all costs. He has made clear that he will do all he can to secure reform within the EU (a position endorsed by a number of EU member states).
It is upon this basis that any vote will take place. With reform I have no hesitation is declaring that I will vote to remain within the EU.”
A fair enough answer. But not a guarantee.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“The decision on whether Scotland would remain a member of the European would be a matter for future UK or Scottish Governments. I cannot therefore give a definitive answer at this time. There would have to be negotiations with the EU on the terms of Scotland’s re-entry. Personally however I would be more confident of Scotland remaining part of the EU as part of the United Kingdom than if it was an independent state.”
We don’t agree, but it’s a straight answer.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“It is plainly not possible to guarantee anything 10 years hence. All I can say is that the Liberal Democrats are committed to the European vision, and would campaign strongly to persuade our fellow citizens that it is the country’s interests to remain members of the European Union.
It has to be recognised though that there is a growing anti-EU sentiment. That may result in a referendum and people may democratically choose to leave, but the Liberal Democrats will fight to remain. Although the EU as an institution is not without fault, the benefits far outweigh any such issues. I fear that if a majority vote ‘Yes’ on 18 September it may be some years before Scotland would be admitted.”
We don’t believe anyone does genuinely fear that, but we’ll take the answer in good faith, and the original question is answered too – “No”.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“No major UK political party supports the withdrawal of the UK from the EU without a referendum. Even 63% of SNP voters believe there should be a referendum of Britain’s continued membership of the EU (link).
An independent Scotland’s continued membership of the EU is not in the gift of the current Scottish Government and José Manuel Barroso, Jean-Claude Juncker and Herman Van Rompuy as well as the Foreign Ministers of Spain, Latvia, Ireland and the Czech Republic have all stated that an independent Scotland would have to apply for membership and join the same queue as every other country for admission to the EU.”
A lie. Firstly, there is no “queue” – EU membership is granted on the basis of meeting the qualifying criteria, not on who applied first. Scotland already meets them, because as part of the UK it’s already a member.
It was also widely reported in the press in July – before we asked these questions – that Jean-Claude Juncker believed Scotland would be treated as a “special case” and admitted quickly.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“I think this will be for the voters to decide.”
So “no”, then.
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7. If I vote No in September, can you guarantee that in 10 years’ time Scotland will still have a fully publicly-funded NHS?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“The NHS in Scotland has been fully devolved since the 1st of July 1999 and differs significantly from the service in the rest of the UK. All funding decisions are made by the Scottish Government and scrutinised by the Scottish Parliament.”
That’s not entirely true, is it? Not ALL funding decisions concerning NHS Scotland are made at Holyrood. The big one – how much money there is for NHS Scotland to get a share of in the first place – is still down to Westminster. But the question asked is dodged.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“It is my belief that the NHS in Scotland should continue to be publicly funded and remain free at the point of delivery. Health and social care is devolved to the Scottish Parliament and there are no plans by the current Scottish Government or Parliament to introduce any of the reforms which we have seen being implemented in England. It would be impossible for me to give any guarantees on what future Scottish Government plans maybe in 10 years’ time.”
“No.”
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Health is a devolved competency. How Scotland chooses to administer the NHS north of the border is a matter for the Scottish Government.”
But the budget it has available to spend is not. Dodge.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“As health is a devolved area future decisions on the NHS would be taken by a future Scottish Government, whether a devolved administration or an independent state. Again it is impossible to make guarantees on decisions yet to be taken by Governments yet to be elected.”
“No.”
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“Again, I would say it is not possible to give a cast-iron guarantee as who knows what will happen in the intervening years. However, I would be astonished to find that in 2024 the NHS is not a publicly funded service. It was created in 1948 as a result of the report by Lord Beveridge, a Liberal economist, and our party still unwaveringly supports these principles.
You can also take comfort form the fact that – this matter is devolved – all the parties in the Scottish Parliament wish to retain the current free-at-the-point of use system.”
“No.”
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“The continued existence of a publicly funded National Health Service is strongly supported by people throughout the UK and by all major political parties. In the event of a No vote, health will remain a devolved matter in Scotland, so this is a question for the Scottish Government.”
Dodge.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“Yes the NHS is FULLY devolved and there is no prospect of ANY party that I know of bringing in legislation to privatise Scotland’s beloved NHS. I do hope the SNP are not planning yet more use of the private sector. Audit Scotland recently highlights how they are using it more and more.”
“SNP BAD.”
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8. If I vote No in September, can you guarantee that the “Barnett Formula” used to calculate the Scottish block grant will still be in force by 2020 and set at the same proportions?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“The Barnett Formula is a function of the current funding arrangements. Separation will end the current arrangements. Scotland is already transitioning to a very different system where we raise the money we spend in Scotland through taxes we set in Scotland. This change will eventually render the Barnett Formula obsolete.”
There you have it, folks – Barnett’s on the way out.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“I am not aware of any plans to reform the Barnett Formula. I would suggest, however, that the only immediate threat to Scotland’s funding is a vote for independence.”
You’re against independence. We get it.
“You want tea or coffee, Siobhan?”
“Tea, and the only danger regarding the availability of tea and other hot beverages in the future is if Alex Salmond’s obsession with independence causes- “
“Yeah yeah. Milk and sugar?”
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“If Scotland moves toward greater fiscal autonomy, then the Barnett formula will necessarily reflect this change. I would anticipate that any changes would be determined by the various parties to the original formula.”
“Stand by for cuts disguised as ‘more powers’.”
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“Decisions on the Barnett Formula will be taken by future UK Government. My understanding is that the leadership of both the Labour and Conservative Parties both support the Barnet Formula in its current form.”
Dodge. In fairness, however, we should have phrased this question better. We should have asked “Under YOUR party’s devolution plans, can you guarantee that should the Scottish Parliament set income tax at the same rate as the rest of the UK, its overall budget will not decrease as a result of that decision?”
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“It is fair to say that the Liberal Democrats went into the 2010 UK general election pledging to abolish the Barnett Formula, which was created in the 1970’s to decide the balance of block grants around the UK. Critics believe it penalises Wales and some English regions, but overpays Scotland by £3 billion. The party aimed to replace it with a needs based formula.
However, the experience of government has convinced the party that the formula should stay as it works and would be extremely difficult to replace. The UK government has said that reform of the Barnett formula is not on the horizon, but of course no-one can promise that it will survive in perpetuity.”
Dodge, but credit points for the candid opening.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“No major party currently has plans to end the Barnett formula. It is, however, worth noting that SNP politicians have publicly criticised the Barnett formula, including Alex Salmond, who said that he wanted to ‘break free’ from the formula earlier this year.”
That’s not a criticism of the Formula, it’s a criticism about being dependent on it. But dodge – “No current plans” is what political parties say when they’re not prepared to commit themselves to backing a policy because they know they’re about to dump it. The Tories said before the 2010 election that they had “no plans” to raise VAT, then whacked it up to 20% just months after being elected.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“The only threat to the Barnett formula is from a YES vote as this WOULD guarantee it goes.”
Lie. It’s not the “only” threat to it at all. And it’s also not actually a “threat”, because an independent Scotland would lose Barnett but gain oil revenues, for a massive overall benefit.
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9. What will be the approximate set-up/costs of the tax-collecting bureaucracy your party plans to implement in the event of a No vote?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“We had no plans to alter the current administrative arrangements. However, the Scottish Government have already initiated the process of duplication. The Revenue Scotland and Tax Powers Bill will establish ‘Revenue Scotland’ as the tax authority, responsible for collecting and managing the two devolved taxes – the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax and the Landfill Tax, when they come into operation on April 1, 2015. They have not yet told us what this will cost.”
“We had no plans to alter the current administrative arrangements”? That might be a bit more revealing than it was meant to be.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Conservative)
“I don’t agree that Labour would be setting up a ‘tax-collecting bureaucracy’. The SNP Government are already in the process of setting up Revenue Scotland which shall be established as the tax authority responsible for the collection and management of devolved taxes as a result of the Scotland Act 2012.
You should be aware that if Scotland votes for independence, Scotland would not be able to make any changes in tax rates, tax bases, benefit rates or benefit entitlements until it had transferred all tax collection revenue to Revenue Scotland and set up a DWP. We still await from the SNP what the true costs of this shall be.”
So are there costs or not? You seem unsure.
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Any future tax collecting infrastructure will be established by the Scottish Government, collaborating with HMRC. In due course the question would be more appropriately directed toward the Scottish Government.”
So the Tories will impose a new taxation arrangement on Holyrood, but have no idea what will cost the Scottish Government to implement? That’s… interesting.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“The cost of any future tax raising body would be determined by a future Scottish Government, as Labour will be seeking to extend powers which the Scottish Government already have the costs of implementation of the devolution commission proposals should not be significantly high. For example the Scottish Government have already committed to establishing Revenue Scotland under the Revenue Scotland and Tax Powers Act 2014 to collect taxes devolved under the Scotland Act 2012.”
“Not significantly high”? For the biggest piece of bureaucratic infrastructure in the country? We’ll keep that in mind the next time Labour’s screaming about the enormous set-up costs of an independent Scotland.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“The Scottish Liberal Democrats believe that the Scottish Parliament’s current financial powers should be expanded so that it is responsible for raising the taxes to pay for the majority of its spending. The necessary changes to tax powers should be made through a further Scotland Act. As the tax collecting system is already in place for the United Kingdom, the change in annual costs should be minimal. Of course there will be some financial implications during the change-over, but this should not be onerous.”
See above.
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“The Strathclyde Commission’s proposals on fiscal devolution would not require the setting up of any additional tax collecting bureaucracies as administration would continue by HM Revenue and Customs. The further devolution of income tax builds on the transfer of powers and system changes required in this area contained in the 2012 Scotland Act and voted for unanimously in Holyrood, including SNP members.”
Oddly, no mention of Revenue Scotland. But it seems to be widely agreed by the Unionist parties that the cost of a Scottish HMRC would be minimal, which is nice.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“Less that [sic] the cost of establishing a multitude of new Scottish agencies, embassies and services – remember it cost £180 million to centralise the Police alone.”
“SNP BAD.”
————————————————————————————————————
10. In the event of a Yes vote, will the UK government have an obligation to pay the pensions of everyone in Scotland who has ALREADY qualified for the UK state pension, as would be the case if current pensioners emigrated to (say) Spain or Australia?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“If Scotland becomes a separate country, responsibility so setting, and funding the state pension would transfer to the Scottish Government. Accrued pension rights in the armed forces, superannuation and other contributory schemes, both public and private, should be unaffected. However, many schemes are currently undercapitalised and may, at some time in the future, require to be topped up. Where that responsibility lies would have to be subject to negotiation. There are certain EU rules regarding pensions which may be difficult to meet in the event of separation.”
Dodge. Not even remotely related to the question asked.
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“This is a matter you would have to take up with the UK Government.”
Dodge. Shouldn’t you know?
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“I am sorry that you are not interested in the Scottish Government’s position on this matter, since it is instructive. The Deputy First Minister has made clear that an independent Scotland would administer pensions quite differently from the UK, with a difference in retirement age and award. From your contention you appear to concede that this would be impossible.”
Dodge. Again, nothing to do with the clear, very specific question asked.
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“The exact nature of liabilities of the UK Government to pay existing pensioners in the event of a yes vote would be determined following post-referendum negotiations. At present the UK Government is required to pay these pensions however this would not necessarily be the case were the responsibilities be transferred to an independent Scottish Government.”
Bit shifty, but basically true.
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“The question of pension liabilities still has to be addressed. There is uncertainty over what will lie ahead, as these arrangements would be subject to negotiations. The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland (ICAS) has said that both state and private pensions are at risk if Scotland goes it alone. If Scotland does decide to leave the United Kingdom, we will leave behind the current pensions and benefits system.
Existing pensioners would probably be treated as overseas pensioners in the same way as UK pensioners living in other EU countries are. However, the social security system is based on national insurance contributions, with the details held on computer in Newcastle. Would an independent Scotland set up a similar database, or would the Newcastle system be used as a base for all UK and Scottish pensions after independence? Currently those living abroad – or planning to do so when they retire – must submit a 24-page application to the Pensions Centre in Newcastle.
The United Kingdom has about a million pensioners overseas. Retirees in EU countries and most other non-Commonwealth nations receive the same annual index-linked rises as those in the UK. But around half a million in Commonwealth countries – including Australia, Canada and New Zealand, have not had their pensions increased since they began drawing them overseas as there are no reciprocal arrangements in place with their governments.”
Again a broadly honest answer, but loaded with attempts to make the picture look as bad as possible. “There’ll be forms to fill in!”
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“Since existing state pension legislation does not make provisions for part of the UK becoming a separate state, additional legislation will likely be required to clarify this situation and determine the entitlements for those who have already paid in.
The issue of paying pensions abroad is a complex one. At present, UK pensioners who emigrate to countries such as Australia and Canada will not have their pensions uprated – they will instead be frozen from the date they retired or emigrated. Uprating occurs in EEA countries and in those countries for which there is an existing reciprocal agreement.”
Dodge. The current situation is in fact very clear – if you’ve paid your contributions you’re entitled to keep getting your pension from the UK government, no matter where you live. The Scottish and rUK governments may negotiate a transfer of responsibilities, but as things stand the rUK will have to pay.
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“I would refer you to the UK government as pensions is a reserved matter.”
Labour really weren’t expecting you to get elected, were they?
————————————————————————————————————
11. Is Scotland a country or a region?
ALEX JOHNSTONE MSP (Conservative)
“Scotland is a country within the United Kingdom. It is already often referred to as a region of Europe. Ye pays yer money and ye takes yer choice.”
SIOBHAN McMAHON MSP (Labour)
“A country.”
DR IAN DUNCAN MEP (Conservative)
“Scotland is a nation.”
KATY CLARK MP (Labour)
“Scotland is a country.”
ALISON McINNES MSP (Liberal Democrats)
“Without doubt Scotland is a country within the family of nations that is the United Kingdom, where I hope it will remain to grow and prosper as it has done over the years.”
ANNABEL GOLDIE MSP (Conservative)
“Scotland is a country with a proud identity and long history, whilst also being a part of the United Kingdom. Scotland has the best of both worlds, with a strong devolved parliament within the UK responsible for policy areas such as health, education and policing, as well as the strength, security and stability of being part of the United Kingdom.”
NEIL FINDLAY MSP (Labour)
“Last time I checked Scotland was country.”
We’re calling that unanimous. So can we expect never again to hear “But people in Manchester don’t always get the government they vote for either!” as an argument against independence? Manchester is NOT a country.
————————————————————————————————————
So there you go. A mixed bag, from Neil Findlay’s flippant contempt to more respectful responses from the likes of Katy Clark, Dr Ian Duncan and Alison McInnes and the total silence from the vast majority of Unionist MPs and MSPs.
And it would be remiss of us not to note that Alex Johnstone gave his constituent the courtesy of a reply despite the source of the questions. This site has been extremely critical – indeed, downright rude – about him in the past, and we loathe everything he stands for, but he didn’t let his personal antipathy interfere with his duty to his constituents. Labour in particular could learn a lesson from that (but almost certainly won’t).
As to the content of the answers, readers can, as ever, judge for themselves.
Neil Findlay comes across as a diehard British nationalist. He really does not think much of Scotland does he? I see even Scottish Tories say Scotland is a nation/country (or at least they profess that).
I have uploaded George Robertson’s ‘minor entity’ quote – link to youtube.com
If uploaded already, then apols.
Neil Findlay – “Yes I loved both my grannies.”
That was the one that won it for me when Neil replied to me! It is an absolute dodge of an answer!
In 1989 I moved to Glasgow and had my electoral registration forms lost three times – I contacted my MP – Maria Fyffe ( Labour ) as I was worried about not getting a vote.
She promised to look into it, stating ” we need every vote we can get”. I pointed out I was seeking her help as my MP but had no intention of voting Labour.
Her response was to remove her offer to look into it, with the comment ” I’m not helping you vote for someone else”
Looks like not a lot has changed.
Gordon browns new federalism in book was regions,couldnt even say country
@Donald Urquhart
You will not be rushing out to buy her book then! 😀
Kudos indeed to all who answered the questions, and they’d better get used to doing it on a regular basis – regardless of the indyref result, these people are going to face an enlightened electorate for decades to come.
What, no world saving answers from Dr G Brown?
Is a nation full of nationalists? If so, what’s a country full of?
All good points. 100% country or 9% region…that’s what every argument comes down to. Do we want decisions made by faceless people who only ever see Scotland on a map?
@Donald Urquhart
You could understand a party doing that, but not one’s own MP. Shocking.
“Labour really weren’t expecting you to get elected, were they?”
Nor Siobhan McMahon. Her and Findlay’s responses really stand out as a pair who are completely out of their league, although at least Siobhan isn’t as rude. Just think, Neil Findlay was beneath Kezia Dugdale in the list – what does that tell you about how even his own party rates him?
It’s interesting that Ian Duncan is the one person to come close to admitting Scotland contributes a bigger share of revenues than it gets back in spending. I often think the difference between the Tories and Labour is that Tories are honest about why they’re unionists. It was the same with Ruth Davidson’s ending speech in the STV debate this week, where she sounded completely sincere in a way you just couldn’t imagine Wendy’s brother, Jim Murphy or Gordon Brown to be. She banged on about military strength and all that, because that’s the kind of stuff Tories love. They want to remain in the union, because they love the kind of macho pish the union stands for.
(Unfortunately, most people don’t care about all that, which is why Labour have to use lies to try and stop folk voting Yes.)
Jo Swinson never bothered to reply.
Lib Dem MP.
@Doug
The funny thing about Kezia Dugdale is that she is intelligent, I think she got a Masters at uni. You would not know that by the way she acts.
I think the manner in which the replies have been phrased tells us more than the content for most of these questions. Neil Findlay in particular comes across as small-minded and partisan, showing contempt for the constiuent who posed the questions.
Doug
It’s interesting that Ian Duncan is the one person to come close to admitting Scotland contributes a bigger share of revenues than it gets back in spending
If Scotland should vote Yes, I wonder during the negotiations if the ‘Scotland Team’ will be firing them a bill for all the tax that was ‘overpaid’ by the people of Scotland? I wonder how much we have overpaid, and whether Westminster is bricking themselves on that little issue raising its head in negotiations too?
Neil Findlay… what a pure embarrassment that guy is, to himself, his party, his constituents and the entire nation. The word “erse” could have been invented just for him.
Is there a list of MPs and MSPs who were contacted and did not reply? Or can we assume the answer is “most of them”?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of a country “an area of land that forms an independent political unit with its own government”.
From an honesty point of view it really doesn’t matter whether they reply to your questions or not. They’re never going to be truthful with you.
Twenty minutes ago my wife and myself listened into a conversation between a Labour/No Thanks activist and two women voters outside our shop.
One of the women told him that she never got her husband’s pension when he died, and asked him, what would happen to pensions in the event of a YES vote?
He told her that if it was a YES vote, not only would she not get her husband’s pension, her own pension would be in jeopardy too.
He then went on to say that he wants to make it crystal clear – Alex Salmond is a liar, you can’t trust him. The NHS in England is not being privatised and the NHS in Scotland is completely under the control of the Scottish government – it is the Scottish government that is privatising it here.
My wife took him to task for lying to them. She told the women that she was not an SNP member but was totally pro independence. He started ranting at her that all you SNP members are all the same – Your minds are closed – You don’t want to listen to the arguments. As he walked away she told him that him going about lying and scaring people is not any type of argument. At least she didn’t suffer the abuse my friend got last Saturday… more to follow.
Could someone cleverer than me upload to youtube the put down to the Lamentable Lamont
“at the end of the day if you have spent the whole of your political life devoted to this and there are still a million Scots classed as being in poverty hasn’t your whole political life been a failure”?
link to bbc.co.uk
around 22 minutes in – please include the look on her face afterwords totally priceless
thanks in anticipation
Continued
… This was posted Online by a friend of mine last Saturday:
“Interesting encounter at Better Together’s street stall in Falkirk today. I’d asked why they were still claiming an independent Scotland couldn’t use the pound as in fact any country could use the pound if they wanted to as their currency. I was told no they can’t…ok…maybe the guy was just ill informed…so I then asked if they were happy to keep their trident nuclear weapons just 20 miles from Glasgow…at this point I was invited to just fuck off…slightly taken aback by this razor-sharp riposte I was then approached by a young chap who repeated the invite twice before walking away like Murphy’s egg man. I was surprised at the naked aggression when faced with two fairly innocuous questions and can only conclude they must be full of fear. Maybe their approach to this campaign of inducing fear in the Scottish people is just a reflection on how they view life. I don’t know, but it was illuminating to find such hatred from a group who are trying to persuade me we are better together.”
This is the quality of the better together argument.
Interesting that they all agree that Scotland is a country. Could they please explain why the border between England and Scotland was moved to Montrose?
And they wonder why we want to overhaul politics?
Ask a straight question and get more evasion tactics than a ninja on crack.
Interesting. Some of them use lots of words but still say nothing!
A MUST WATCH..
Go on YouTube and search ‘Scotland – the richest nation in the world’
(Sorry but I can’t tag the link on here)
Show this to anyone that thinks we’re too poor and too wee.. might be wee but obviously not a bad thing!!!
MOVING FROM BATH are we STU?
If independence is achieved it will be down to a popular movement and not to any politician. Indeed, if one person has to be singled out, I would say the Rev Stuart Campbell has made the most decisive individual contribution in the campaign. If Social media has beaten the mainstream media, the central rock around which millions of flowers have bloomed has been the Wings over Scotland website. This has a significantly larger daily readership than any newspaper in Scotland. The Wee Blue Book I found everywhere, including copies already available in pretty well every pub I entered, as I toured the East Coast. Over 400,000 downloads of the PDF have been made and 250,000 copies centrally printed, as well as a number of private initiatives which had already obtained professional printings from the PDF. Conservatively, there are over half a million hard copies out there, as well as all the reads online. In a population of 5.2 million, that is a major impact.
When we close down BBC Scotland and create a new citizen based, cheaper and more arts-oriented organisation in its place, let’s put Stuart Campbell in charge. Some state-funded drama and arts output seems to me commendable. State funding of pap entertainment is not needed – the private sector can do that perfectly well. State funding of “journalism” which investigates nothing and never challenges the establishment must be stopped.
That’s a fine piece of work. Many (nearly all) respondents made replies that surely would alarm the visiting curious DK potential voter.
Used my pocket WWB a wee while ago to steady the nerves of some ‘about to retire council workers’ I was sitting next to in the cafe.
Also had my tablet and found the link from WoS to this which has the pop up letters re: pensions
I suspect they will be reading WoS tonight.
link to banffandbuchansnp.blogspot.co.uk
Neil Findlay would have been better off not responding. Those answers of his just look childish
Seen Findlay a few times in the Parli. A right nippy agreessive wee sweetie, I’d hate to see him after half a dram.
@David
That was a pricless retort from Cook. Let himself down badly on the next show though. Murphy’s seat still in quarantine being de-slimed.
I can’t stand that snearing individual Neil Findlay. What makes him think that his lack of civility is acceptable in a public servant? His only chance of public office is to remain near the top of the list by keeping in with the Labour Party apparatchics He will never win significant votes in a constituency election.
A comprehensive list of half truths, lies and dodges. They either know naught, of their country; or as I suspect, they care more about their party (future greasy pole climbing) than they do their country.
Don’t know what its like where you are but here in Aberdeen the weird silence or lack of UKOK campaigning by our local Westminster seat warmers has been deafening.
Anne Begg, hardly a word, Frank Doran not a peep and so on. They must have decided the safest option for their jobs for life is keep out of it all completely, which again says a hell of a lot about Westminster in Scotland.
Keep schtum. Leave it to the media, it was us wot won it.
Another good reason to vote YES. link to independent.co.uk
Maybe we crowdsource a trip into space for them all, that charming chap Jimmy Hood was the most articulate Labour in Scotland says NO
link to youtube.com
Sarah Brightman’s off to space for $51million.
Ian Duncan, in his answer to the first question, calculates a ‘per capita’ share of oil revenues to Scotland, not a geographical share. That is the preferred calculation of the Unionist side, so his answer is factually skewed to suit a Unionist argument.
As noted by others, selective use of omission and elision in most cases. I suspect interns have been hard at work tailoring answers to fit party policy. It doesn’t look as if Neil Findlay even bothered to do that. Still, at least, he answered, if only to make points against the SNP. It would appear that others who remained silent did not understand that they have a duty to all of their constituents, not merely their political supporters.
Remember with regards to money, economy etc, you are asking MPs – a group of people who basically dont have a clue…
link to positivemoney.org
These characters are self serving parasites who only use their political parties as a means to gaining wealth and access to the capitalist elite by doing their bidding. Principals and morals are a commodity to exchange for gold, truly capitalist stooges.
Socialist principals are the smokescreen they use to get elected to power so they have access to the capitalist system of dealing their political power for riches.
This is very evident in to many of these political parasites, Unfortunately most of the UK political parties have to many parasites attached to them, the system has been corrupt since England bought the Scottish nobles in 1707.
The whole referendem debate boils down to the last question is Scotland a country or a region. If it’s a country you must vote yes. If Britian is your country vote no.
I for one am sick of living in a pretend country with people who say they are proud Scots but think London knows best.
I have no problem with those who say they are British good luck to them at least that’s honest.
Scottish Labour have been put under the microscope like they’ve never been before and they’ve been found out
They were all voted in under The Representation of the People Act , a fact they forget soon afterwards… if you are a Tory MSP , and most of your constituents want independence , then you MUST argue for that , no matter your own or your parties beliefs. But that wont help your party career..tough.
Just the fact that Goldie is now an unelected trougher for life should be enough to make DK’s wonder. “I don’t agree with your policies Baroness Goldie of Bishopton” “tough luck, welcome to teamGB democracy”
That last labour guy Findlay is just indicative of the ‘talent’ that they have in their pool.
Bought the Record for the 1st time ever – my parents used to buy it – it is surprisingly very good.
On the front page there is the mention of the buy out of Ferguson’s ship yard which should help the notoriously pro labour voters there to think favourably about a Yes.
Jim Mccoll is talking of expanding it and he has a very pro Yes message.
I think the Record are hedging their bets so if in the event of a Yes they can say, but we ran both sides etc.
Same old Neil Findlay. He really is a joke who is utterly out of his depth. His contributions in parliament are always embarrassing. Corresponded with him a few times over issues, and he always gets all defensive, childish and aggressive if you challenge his or his party’s record. Pointed out that it was a bit rich of him to claim to be a socialist etc. when he openly states his mentor and inspiration for getting into politics was Tam Dalyell..an Eton educated, former Tory baronet who lives in a country house.
Comrade Neil’s response: “You don’t know anything about me, about my background, about my community!”
We do Neil…sadly.
link to holyrood.com
“Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson said today that her predecessor will “inject a new level of plain speaking and common sense into Lords’ proceedings”.
You can see why Lady Annabelle got made up too
eg
“The possibility of using the pound without a currency union is called ‘sterlingisation’ and was explicitly rejected by the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group (link). Sterlingisation would be a poor option in comparison to the stable pound we currently enjoy.”
A lie – the FCWG did NOT “reject” sterlingisation, merely said that it wasn’t ideal as a long-term option.
O/T – I apologise – but have a look at the variety of negative scare nonsense, some of it really quite febrile, currently on the Herald website – truly grotesque in its dishonest effrontery…..and a clear indication of the present bias of the daily Herald….
Annabelles year for the trough was busy too with vast majority ConDems and Bishops, which in itself is very creepy considering the yewkay is not a theocracy either. Wonder why so many ConDems and Bishops were piled into the Trough anyway
link to parliament.uk
@David
Search for Johann Lamont The failure & the death stare on youtube and you’ll get it.
Colin Church says:
@David
That was a pricless retort from Cook. Let himself down badly on the next show though. Murphy’s seat still in quarantine being de-slimed.
You are being a bit hard on him trying to shut up EGGOMANIACAL MURPHY is not going to be that easy and well impossible to do on live TV in front of an audience, if you want to stay out of jail.
link to theguardian.com
Less than 600 rUK MP’s and over 2000 Lords.
On 24/7 I sent e mails to MSPs Jayne Baxter, Claire Baker, and Dr Richard Simpson asking them for Labours Devolution plans after a NO vote.
I received an automated reply from Claire Baker to confirm receipt. I have had no further responses from these Publuc Servants! Disgraceful! That’s Mid Scotland and Fife,s Labour MSPs for you. It will go away if you just hide your head in the sand!!
new joke
Scotland has as many pandas as SNP MPs who voted to defeat the Bedroom Tax today
Gavin Estler in Shetland! The BBC are desperately searching for a narrative that excludes the most of Scotland.
So back, time and again to those places where they believe they will find it: the islands and the Borders.
I wonder if anyone in Maryhill has been interviewed by Gavin.
cant believe some of these answers,brilliant reading
labour in scotland (r.i.p)
ive just sat for 30 minutes doing a you gov poll on the referendum…1 question actually refers to the abolishion of the scottish parliament in the event of a no vote
@B.Bomb says
Search for Johann Lamont The failure & the death stare on youtube and you’ll get it.
thanks got it now and it is on my FB page
Katy Clark used to be my MP. In all fairness, as a dyed in the wool cybernat. I thought she was a good MP. Going forward; When Scotland becomes independent, I would be happy to work with and vote for Katy.
One of the most enlightening analyses yet. Very telling responses.
Brian Powell,
was it not Gavin Estler who presented that Vote No Borders propaganda piece ?
link to theguardian.com
Vote NO trust Crash, he’s greatly respected, he says. So a NO win gives Labour in Scotland more powers to give Scotland more powers but Crash is only going to give us more pores the tighter the polls get. Funny that. My MP Begg wrote back to me hard copy and also said vote NO for more powers and anyway, Holyrood will be given up to 10% tax “variation” powers too, which means tax hikes so we pay twice for same or, tax cuts which Labour in Scotland don’t seem too keen on as in, tuition fees are a tax brawl for middle class Scotland apparently and they demand council tax hikes too.
Be interesting to see how hard Labour in the Scotland region campaign on that tub thumper too.
Not sure what the Daily Record sales figures will be for today, but after some consideration they got 55p from me. Very uplifting reading positive stories about Scotland in a paper which is usually very negative. Would be nice if it continues.
our eco-system adaptations make us what we are.
link to washingtonpost.com
take that where ever it needs to go.
housing, clothing, types of food, social activities, every thing.
we simply don’t fit in with WM centric planning, nor it’s habitats.
yet we in this completely different and separate country, are expected to fit in with what ever WM throws @ us.
scotland has more than paid it’s fair share for infrastructure that has little or no benefit to scotland.
scotland is an entirely different country with different needs, than the countries of WM.
no more should we try to live in 2 places @ once.
the ensuing identity crisis, by cause of this, is exhausting.
A concise summary of the status of each of the participants (based on their answers) would be in order, and could be categorised as:
honest,
fair,
dodgy,
dishonest,
extremely dishonest,
downright liar,
snake oil purveyor
…etc.
The best comment about Johann Lament that I have seen was in this week’s edition of the Shackelton Report in The Herald.
Writing as Dr Ian Shackelton, Douglas Lindsay had his whereabouts this week as on the 98th floor of: “The Johann Lamont Memorial Tower in the city’s out-of-its-depth district”.
Brilliant, and, if Jo-La is out of her depth, where is the likes of your man Findlay?
The answer I received to all 11 questions from my MP Sir Menzies Cambell was a four line paragraph the last sentence being ”from the terms of your questions I conclude you have already made your mind up”.
That was it.
Ok GLASGOW Wingers,
I’m extending the deadline for Volunteers to Saturday Mid-Day in the hope we can have more cover for the Postal Vote/Count
indyref2014WoS(at)gmail(dot)com
Go on, you know you want to.
Socrates
Writing as Dr Ian Shackelton, Douglas Lindsay had his whereabouts this week as on the 98th floor of: “The Johann Lamont Memorial Tower in the city’s out-of-its-depth district”.
That would be just across from Cloud Cukcoo Land
This is charming from progressives at the Graun
“Alex Salmond’s vision is equally flawed. His socialist heaven of tax and spend, floating on a lake of oil, must be rubbish. He offers voters an extra £1,000 a head after independence, when the reality must be public sector belt tightening. Scotland’s budget would lose Treasury underpinning. Its borrowing would be at risk. Its ministers would be on their mettle. Financial crisis would lead to Greek-style austerity, whereupon voters would chuck Salmond out. The Tories might even revive as the party of discipline and offshore capitalism.”
Lovely
Burst out laughing watching Reporting Scotland at 1:30pm..
Johann Lamont actually said ‘I’m appealing to SNP voters to vote No’.
What?!? Couldn’t believe it. Still in shock!!!
Precisely the questions that need answered and another cracking list.
OT, but I thought we were No Better Together Thanks.
By early this year, the trends identified by CRESC had become embedded with the help of the coalition government after the 2008 crash. The Centre for Cities reported that London had accounted for 80 per cent of private-sector job growth between 2010 and 2012. That was ten times more than for the second-fastest-growing city in that period, the UK’s second city of finance: Edinburgh. Whereas there had been public-sector job cuts in most cities, the national government was increasing the number of state-funded jobs in London by 66,300. By contrast, Edinburgh lost more than 3,000 jobs of this type over the same period.
link to newstatesman.com
“Jim Murphy named among 27 MPs in new expenses row
Friday 19 October 2012”
The article from the Herald, to which this headline applies, must be the most enduring one listed as ‘most read’. It’s right at the top of the list.
Who said MPs were stupid?
I think if we don’t win from hear then it would only be down to some fiddling with the vote.Someone mentioned that in Quebec at this stage there were at least two polls per day.Why are there so few polls its very odd.Unless Yes are holding the good one until the week before for full impact.I am in Crete and will be watching the Scotland game to see all the yes banners.I hear Edinburgh airport was awash with them when the tartan army were leaving.
In same Grau shyst
“I would vote yes because, though I disbelieve both Darling and Salmond, Salmond’s lies would precipitate a crisis that would have to lead to a leaner, meaner Scotland, one bolstered by the well-known advantages of newborn states and more intimate governments. Scotland’s whingeing and blaming of London would stop. It would be driven towards true self-sufficiency, capable of resembling Denmark, Norway, Ireland or Slovakia as a haven for fleet-footed entrepreneurs.”
Did anyone expect this union to have so many liars and so many spivs and hucksters all desperately trying to block Scotland’s road to democracy, from a angry fool on an irn brui crate to shills in the media. Ofcourse.
“Scotland’s whingeing and blaming of London would stop. It would be driven towards true self-sufficiency, capable of resembling Denmark, Norway, Ireland or Slovakia as a haven for fleet-footed entrepreneurs.”
Has anyone ever thought of Norway and Denmark as a haven for fleet footed entrepreneurs? And all these endless UKOK frighteners pouring out of Progressive Liberal Guardian at Canarry Warf, right next to biggest ever banking fraud/crash/collapse ever in world history too and it’s all waiting to go off again.
Run Scotland Run
Lamont makes an appearance, how long does her batteries last?
@liz
This was the day the Yes campaign was in charge of the Daily Record, yesterday was the No campaign’s turn. I would not expect it to be like that again! 😀
@Stevie boy
Lamont is completely and utterly out of her depth. She and her colleagues have shown a virulent hatred of the SNP in the last 7 years in particular. Now she is appealing for support too the part of the electorate, who vote for the party she openly loathes, to vote Yes!
@ Calgacus
“Another good reason to vote YES”
And another good reason to watch our backs for the dirty trick squad.
If they all agree Scotland is a nation, why can’t we put Scottish down as our nationality on UK passports?
Don’t know how these things work,but when was the last time a Scottish newspaper was picked by the PM at at such a high profile press conference and receive a long anti snp bad reply?
@muttley79 – I know that’s why I bought it.
It’s just that I thought they would be sneeky and slip in some negative stuff.
I suppose if it was edited by yes then that would explain it.
Q2 – Katy Clark
“Should an independent Scotland choose to use Sterling without a formal currency union with the rest of the United Kingdom it’s needs would not necessarily be considered when key decisions about Sterling (for example on interest rates or quantitative easing) were taken by the Bank of England.”
So, no change from what happens now, then?
“Are you aware of any other documents relevant to the independence debate which are currently designated secret?”
The Labour people must surely be aware of the documents relating to the Labour Party’s discussions on Scottish Devolution prior to the establishment of the Scottish Parliament which the Scotland Office has refused to make public. Surely we have a right to know the reasons why they decided the parameters of the current devolution arrangements – why some powers are retained by Westminster and why others are devolved to Holyrood. If their reasons were sound, why are they offering “more powers” now and what is the reasons why some powers will still be retained by Westminster. I think these discussion papers are highly relevant to the current debate, but Labour is getting away with suppressing them.
And surely the papers to do with removing 6,000 square miles of Scottish waters out of Scottish territory and into England must have some significance in the current independence debate?
Katy Clark used to be my MP and I sent her the questions and got those answers.
Generally, she seems like an actually honest Labour politician, the kind we will need in an independent Scotland. Not one I agree with entirely, but still one I could be happy representing me.
It’s a shame the party as a whole is totally untrustworthy.
Why no input from the SNP? Some of the questions might need Yes and No transposed.
Mike Russell, for one, shown interest in increasing privatisation in the NHS. And regarding guarantees ten years hence, Nicola Sturgeon refused to commit on tax rates in 2016.
You could spend all day going through their answers. But just for starters on information suppression. Shetland visit of PM. Talks between Tories and Spanish. Results of polling carried out by Government.
On Oil receipts for 2013/14 No mention of the effects of two major installations being temporarily shut for a ‘Gas leak’ or the unfortunate inordinate number of PM maintenance shut downs that year. Or the fact that oil tax revenue new investment offs for that year were exceptional. Nor the mention that the two installations are now back in production, that there will be two new fields and revamped field producing a new 250000 barrels a day + in the next 3 years and Claire Ridge will be around another 100,000 + barrels per day and even without those new fields production levels are already
up on last year.
Also the OBR prediction has been wildly out and still is even though they keep revising it up (but still keeping it a tad below the $100 per barrel psychological barrier. 99.3 per barrel by 2018, the only estimate out there that isn’t rounded to a whole dollar figure and way below the industry estimated predictions from DECC and Oil & Gas which are around $130 per barrel.
No mention of West Coast margin oil, or the steadily growing armada of oil industry vessels in West Coast ports awaiting the starting pistol on Sep. 19th.
Not sure if anyone has tried to put a number on the costs of setting up a border – the politicians above seem to have ducked it.
Excluding the large cost to both countries in transaction fees and other assorted costs (down time for lorry drivers, businessmen etc queuing while their passports are checked, what does setting up a border cost? Or running it?
Let’s take the scare stories at face value and imagine a perimeter fence with border posts like USA – Mexico border. Of course, we may not be talking about quite the same level of security but we are neither talking about hundreds of miles of near worthless desert with infrequent crossings.
The USA Mexico border is 1954 miles long. Our own border with England is 96 miles long.
The USA recently upgraded it to be a proper steel and concrete fence border along about a third of it complete with infrared cameras, radar and swat teams at a cost of $2.8 – $3.5 million per mile depending on whose figured you trust. So let’s call that $300 million or £185 million for 96 miles.
A quick Google check and I found the USA spent $11.7 billion operating the border in 2012. Boil that down for our measly stretch and you have £350 million per year running costs over and above the initial spend. This excludes the cost of patrolling the North Sea and Irish Sea/Solway Firth by border patrol vessels.
It strikes me that the lyrics to that absurd BT tune were spot on: “Why build another wall?” Indeed.
My wildly speculative back-of-fag-packet figures are the least one could expect of these politicians when they threaten to build a physical border to control immigration between 2 friendly neighbouring countries.
Apologies to anyone who has covered this angle already. I am not Stu – i think he may have given this the treatment a few months ago.
I forgot to add: rUK are working with a massive deficit so the actual costs once interest over many years is built in will bump these guesstimate figures up by a fair ole percentage.
If England decides to put a border across their Northern territory they will also have to put border controls for anyone going into N Ireland and for anyone coming from the Irish Republic into rUK as there will be free passage into Ireland and free passage into N Ireland for anyone who wants to defeat an English inspired border across the N of England. The more you think about it the more you wonder if they could really be bothered doing it.
Perhaps it would be safer for an independent Scotland if England put up border controls. Especially if there is a deliberate mass exodus from England to get into a better country.
We could also make Scotland a George Galloway free area.
@ Phil Robertson
labour,tories or the lib dems cant tell scotland what new powers theres going to be in the event of a no vote and thats less than 2 weeks away…and as for no feedback from the snp i dont think they were asked..as said about 10 times its not about the snp
It seems that a host of Westminster MPs are being herded up to Scotland to speak up for the union.
link to independent.co.uk
If you’ve already made your mind up to vote Yes why would you want to put money into the coffers of the Daily Record?
If the normal readers of that paper are convinced to vote Yes because of today’s special issue well and good, but why on earth would I want to soil my hands by taking it off the shelf and reading all the stuff that I already know?
Give them time and they’ll be back at their vile attacks on the National Movement. Their issue on Wednesday 17th. will be the biggest load of tripe and lying propaganda you could possibly imagine.
Joanne Lamont Quote “I am appealing……..” Seriously Jo that is the last thing you are. Fluffy kittens are appealing,wee puppies are appealing. I find you off-puting and offensive. And don’t get me started on the Tories.
Quote from Independent Article.
“Gordon Brown said he had requested that several days of parliamentary time be set aside to debate the devolution of more powers to Holyrood in the event of a No vote”
If he were genuinely serious, he would ask for the debate BEFORE the referendum.
He must think we are idiots.
I’ve seen many a comment from the less well informed saying that if Scotland votes Yes that Labour need to win an extra 41 seats in rUK to make up for the loss.
Beyond the fact that we know our vote doesn’t make a difference in the UK elections are they not also assuming that after a No vote we would go back to how we voted in 2010? Surely even Labour can’t expect that after a No vote Scotland will return 41 MP’s? The SNP would surely half this?
David,
“When we close down BBC Scotland and create a new citizen based, cheaper and more arts-oriented organisation in its place, let’s put Stuart Campbell in charge.”
I would like Stuart to be in charge of the Truth Commission.
Then watch the proceedings as unionist politicians and BBC, STV and the rest of MSM liars, I mean ‘journalists’, justify their pre referendum lies, I mean unbiased reporting.
OK, I’ll come clean. I’ve alluded to “a certain labour councillor” in previous posts, without naming him. I won’t even mention shaming.
Willie Young is the brother of my son’s wife.
I’ve exchanged several e-mails with him, as his position regarding Scotland seems distressingly misinformed, with the intention of at least trying to ascertain WHY he feels the way he does. I feel that I’ve been fair, as unbiased as I possibly can be, (under the circumstances,) TOTALLY honest, reasonable, cool, calm and collected. I provided all the facts and figures. Not once did I curse or insult him. Or his intelligence. (!) Never did I rant. I was completely rantless.
And he replied! Which was unexpected. He was rational, calm, forthright. And absolutely wrong.
Obviously, I’ve met the guy. He was present at his sister’s wedding, (but not at his mother-in-law’s funeral – which I found somewhat distressing.) He comes across as thoughtful and engaging. So how can he be so irrationally misguided? This is not a rhetorical question, folks, I REALLY need an answer. He hasn’t replied to my latest e-mail. Many may feel that trying to alter the perceptions of a dyed-in-the-wool fanatic is a fool’s errand. Perhaps you can assist this Don Juan.
Lies such as these can cost companies solid cash if folk decide not to use their services due to the lies. Why do none of these companies demand a retraction or even threaten to sue these people?
Hi Big Jock.
A week past Sunday, while I was with the YES bus at City Square in Dundee, as we were closing down the stall, a guy rushed up and asked if we had any YES saltires.
There was only one left – taped to the front of the table. “Can I buy that one? I need it for waving at the Germany game.” So a fiver changed hands and off he happily toddled, folding the saltire, with gaffa tape still attached, into his pocket.
Wonder if they’ll do many crowd shots during the coverage?