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Wings Over Scotland


Press release imminent

Posted on March 20, 2019 by

This was the Scottish Tories two years ago, when Scotland’s economy registered a small downturn for a single quarter, which was definitely the SNP’s fault:

Shall we find out what actually happened, readers?

We’re pretty sure there must be a statement from Murdo Fraser and Dean Lockhart due out any second now, proclaiming how the new figures show how strong Scotland’s economy is as a part of the UK, and how independence would put that at risk, but we can’t find it on the party website yet. We’ll bring it to you as soon as it appears.

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    1. 20 03 19 11:56

      Press release imminent | speymouth

    408 to “Press release imminent”

    1. Peter Gillies says:

      I suspect the tory party have enough on their plate at the moment

    2. yesindyref2 says:

      The constant negativity of the unionists really does get you down sometimes.

    3. Bob Mack says:

      To revise.

      We have the worst education in the UK, but that has been rumbled this morning.

      We are running out of gas and oil, but that has been revised last week.

      We have a terrible Health Service, but that has been clearly shown to outperform the rest of the UK.

      We have to join the Euro, but that has been proven wrong as well.

      We are apparently in decline economically when we outperform the rest of the UK.

      Why didn’t I emigrate to Australia 35 years ago?

      When lies are your only means of trying to control a population,you should remember that they only have a limited shelf life.

    4. Essexexile says:

      Damn it Rev! I thought NS was about to drop the R bomb from your headline. Heart jumped for a moment there!!

    5. Breeks says:

      Once Scotland is an independent nation managing its own destiny as a valued and respected member of the EU, with Scotland’s surplus being invested in Scotland’s interests, and Scottish kids growing up in a country which pioneers a new attitude towards clean economic sustainability, investment, and ever broadening horizons, then I’d be delighted to place a microphone at the disposal of Murdo Fraser or Ruth Davison… so their grovelling apology can be broadcast to the Nation and recorded for posterity.

      Until then…… ach wheesht.

    6. Dr Jim says:

      Post Independence Murdo Fraser will be the first to say he secretly wanted it all along

      I’m honest Murdo Fraser vote for me he’ll say, then he’ll vow allegiance to Scotland and get in on the list

      That’s just who Murdo Fraser is

    7. jfngw says:

      No need to wait for Murdo, the PM at PMQ’s is now claiming credit for Scotland’s growth.

    8. GORDON FORREST says:

      Employment up again in Scotland That is good news for certain Tory mps & msps When they lose their current jobs in the next elections be it Wasteminster or Hollyrood. They will find it easier to get a job. Mind you in their new employment they will probably have to learn how to put in a days work.

    9. galamcennalath says:

      Bob Mack says

      When lies are your only means of trying to control a population,you should remember that they only have a limited shelf life.

      That is precisely the situation the UK has reached. Lies on an industrial scale is the solution to every political issue. In the case of their Union and Scotland’s constitutional future, the only defence they have is lies.

      There has always been lies, manipulation, and propaganda but the first time I became aware of the scale of the problem, and the apparent total complicity of the MSM, was WMDs in Iraq. So, it’s a BritNat problem, not just a Tory one.

      Defence of the Union is lie based. Everything about Brexit is lie based. Lies about Iraq and Syria. Lie built on lie. Lying to cover up previous lies. Sickening. 🙁

      Scotland needs to be different, open and honest by escaping this terminal rot.

    10. Effijy says:

      What Rev do you mean by not voting Tory in Scotland we missed out on having lower rates of growth than Tory England.

      We already missed out on having a less efficient railway network, a less efficient NHS, and Toll free roads.

      Where would Scotland be without the idiot Tories and their Brexit negotiation skills.

      A damn sight better off just about sums it up!

      Vote Tory if you are are a compulsive liar and bigoted xenophobe
      looking to rob the disabled and working classes in order to further support the rich!

    11. mountain shadow says:

      So Teresa May is seeking the extension to the end of June so that the UK doesn’t have to take part in the EU elections at the end of May? That certainly has me confused.

      Also, can the Scot gov run EU elections in Scotland without the ok from Westminster?

    12. jfngw says:

      Well there is potential for Richard Dawkins with a new book, ‘The Messiah Illusion’. The history of a back bench Labour MP who the believers are convinced he will lead them to a Shangri La future, despite being invisible for around 35 years of his parliamentary life. Suddenly at 69 he will reveal his ‘deep thought’ process.

      I don’t know whether to follow the shoe or the gourd.

    13. Petra says:

      O/T

      Theresa May’s begging letter.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47641357

    14. mountain shadow says:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47623413

      Looked at that paltry fine!!!

      This is where we need to get smart come IndyRef2. Break every rule we can to achieve independence as the ends will justify the means.

    15. Arbroath1320 says:

      I see the BBC has finally *YAWN* found out how to door step someone other than a member of the S.N.P. Perhaps they should take this newly learned skill and door step Fraser and Lockart.

      Oops … I forgot Fraser and Lockart are Tories … BBC do NOT door step Tories. 😀

    16. Hamish100 says:

      Schools back for new term in August. Just in time for a Scottish referendum to be organised. Weather usually quite good and lighter nights.

    17. galamcennalath says:

      EU don’t want delay to go beyond 23 May.

      https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0320/1037523-brexit-reaction/

    18. stewartb says:

      I listened earlier to Pete Wishart MP in the HoC ask the first question of PM May at the start of the PMQ session today.

      I know big Brexit issues are in front of the HoC today (again) and this point may be seen by some as a ‘quibble’ in this context but in my view it’s important. I wish that SNP MPs would all agree on and be consistent in how they refer to the UK and to Scotland in terms of ‘state’, ‘kingdom’, ‘country’ and/or ‘nation’.

      Mr Wishart’s use of the term ‘nation’ (singular) for the UK today was equivalent to the usage favoured by ‘one nation’ Tories!

    19. Doug Bryce says:

      Country in crisis : anyone seen Ruth Davidson recently ?

    20. GORDON FORREST says:

      Ah the fourth paragraph in murdo’s blurb is a peach ” it comes as the first minister is being accused of neglecting her day job”
      So we outperform the ruk when Nicola is neglecting her day job but when the Murdo’s boss the Maybot concentrates full on Brexit its a bloody shambles nuff said!

    21. manandboy says:

      Life or Death. May has chosen Death.

      Once all truth is abandoned, then outlawed, the path taken leads to death, for the path of life is marked by truth and goodness, of which there is no sign in the politics of this Tory Govt.

      May thinks there is a way forward to be found by continuing to lie and deceive.

      This is total blindness.

      The UK is already in the cemetery. An empty grave has been made ready.

      Get ready, Scotland, Independence is waiting.

    22. SilverDarling says:

      Theresa May is deliberately asking for an extension beyond the 23rd May knowing it may be refused by the EU. She can then say she carried out the wishes of Parliament but it was the EU who would not grant it.

      Is there a mechanism for impeachment similar to the US or are we trapped in this nightmare forever? Please, someone do something>

    23. chicmac says:

      I did consider doing a cartoon of May on a stepladder trying but failing to reach a noose and asking the EU for an extension but I learned in the past such graphic imagery is only permissible by the likes of Ian Bell et. al in the wonderful MSM.

    24. chicmac says:

      Beg pardon, Steve Bell.

    25. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      SilverDarling @ 14:01,

      May can ask for what she likes, but it is the EU27 who will decide exactly what she will get. (No change there, then!)

    26. Mogabee says:

      Christ, hope I haven’t missed that press release…

    27. Old Pete says:

      Truth is not a word Tories understand when remarking about Scotland, it’s economy, it’s people and it’s future.
      Looks like May will force Brexit through, so new Independence referendum soon please Nicola.

    28. I mis-read.
      The Uk is to ask for an extension until the end of May?
      Surely May’s toast now.
      No need for an extension.
      Newly crowned Prime Minister Johnson will sort the Froggies, Ktauts, Dagos, and Talis out surely?
      The EU will not grant an extension.
      WM has already ruled out No Deal, and May’s Meaningless Deal.
      When she’s refused a third bite at her chosen cherry she will threaten to cancel article 50, or go to the country.
      She seemingly doesn’t do ‘walking away’, does she?
      What a ding-up.

    29. chicmac says:

      If May is Cersie in Game of Thrones who is Daenerys Targaryen?

      Anna Soubry?

    30. manandboy says:

      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-could-reject-may-s-membership-extension-request-coveney

      Imagine a situation in which for nearly 3 years, the Isle of Bute held up a major adjustment to the affairs of Scotland and the rest of the UK, and then asked for more time without any evidence of making any progress.
      While Holyrood might extend a little more patience toward Bute, the Westminster Government would be outraged and merciless.

      Yet, here we are, with the Westminster Government in the role of Bute, asking the EU for an extension. Not just that, but with their customary sense of entitlement and superiority, as if the EU, on bended knee, will automatically grant it, and with an apology for causing the bother in the first place.

      It is time.

    31. Clootie says:

      …but the SNPBad story still got the coverage. He who has the press has the story.

    32. call me dave says:

      Rev moving up the rankings: Well done 🙂

      POLITICAL BLOGS UK TOP 10 as of today:
      ———————————————————
      1. Guido Fawkes

      2. Conservative Home

      3. Wings Over Scotland

      Taking third place in our ranking is Wings Over Scotland, a blog focusing on the Scottish political landscape. Created and edited by Rev. Stuart Campbell, Wings Over Scotland splits opinion across the media with its straight-talking style and brutally honest posts about politics, both across Scotland the rest of the UK.

      A strong supporter of Scottish independence (though not affiliated with the SNP), Wings Over Scotland gives readers insight, views and voting guidance about political matters in Scotland.
      ———————————————————-

      Rumours: Macron says ‘No’ to the PM: Jings!

      O/T
      Passing the time away earlier after searching in the DVD box after comments about Hancock yesterday reminded me:

      I got all 37 known episodes about 15yrs ago for a present.

      Fans will know the episode if I say:

      Lady don’t fall backwards (book): Darcy Sarto and Johnny Oxford

      One of my favourites: 🙂

    33. manandboy says:

      Since 2012 and the beginning of Indy2014, it is fair to say that the Yes Movement has become very well educated politically.
      However, I don’t think the same could be said about core No voters, who are still in the dark, still thoroughly brainwashed, and seriously in need of a light bulb experience.
      Irrespective, sufficient numbers of No to Yes converts, and all those who have been shaken by the Brexit omnishambles, will ensure a result for Independence.

      Scotland – global leaders in political education.

      It is time.

    34. Why don’t all those whinging British Nationalists just up sticks and move to England, where they can enjoy all the benefits of the Tories policies.

    35. Artyhetty says:

      test

    36. robertknight says:

      Remind me, who has their hands on the levers of macroeconomic policies in Scotland?

      Never mind, I’ve remembered… It’s the London based colleagues of the smirking chimp top left. (Apologies to any chimp reading this).

    37. Cubby says:

      TAKING BACK CONTROL

      Please please EU give me a wee extension – any extension so that I can continue making the UK a laughing stock across the world.

      Is the Maybot really working for Putin????.

    38. K1 says:

      Donald Tusk, the president of the European council, will make a statement about Brexit later, at 4pm UK time, so’s we can watch his statement live and don’t huv tae suffer brexitsplaining from msm:

      https://video.consilium.europa.eu/en/webcast/675f39ea-3b14-4e8a-8b1f-75c333acfb94

    39. jockmcx says:

      Thanks to Rev and all commenters on wings for keeping at
      it over the last nearly 5 years.

      Thank god this is nearly over,
      free at last
      free at last
      free at last

      Thank god almighty Scotland’s free at last!

      Look at the effing state of them!

    40. K1 says:

      parly…not early

    41. mountain shadow says:

      Absolute, last days of Rome stuff. Possible that Westminster could sit over the weekend to vote on various options, however, Macron appears to have lost patience and might veto any extension.

      Therefore, with May’s deal dead, we only have two options, a hard Brexit or repeal of Article 50, i fear the former is now odds on.

    42. Cubby says:

      It looks to me that May will have to be be replaced by a non mad Brexiteer or it will be a horrendous no deal exit from the EU.

      Can May now be removed from office? And it may have to be pretty soon. Total Mayhem.

      I always thought the Tories would make a mess of leaving the EU but this is a true crisis.

    43. manandboy says:

      While Scotland continues to look on, aghast at the ongoing turbocharged omnishambles at the Home of Imperial England, Westminster, it must be, at the very least, close to the time when we can leave behind the past 7 years of debate and dispute within the Yes movement, and with a fresh mind and purpose, resolve to unite in one final push forward to the greatest day in Scotland’s history, the recovery of our Independence.

      Hail Caesar!.

      It is time.

    44. jfngw says:

      I see that a Sky journalist is now twitter trolling SNP/Independence supporters. I presume in the hope she will be attacked and can then generate a story about how nasty the Scots are. Don’t fall for it, just ignore her.

      She was given a lesson in facts by Ian Blackford, don’t feed her ego (it’s all she really has as her journalistic knowledge was left on the floor by Mr Blackford).

    45. manandboy says:

      Moderation permitting of course.

    46. starlaw says:

      If they replaced May with a mince pie supper they would have something to get their teeth into.

    47. cearc says:

      Shades of ‘de Gaulle dit ,non!’ (For those of a certain age).

      https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-france-idUKKCN1R02A4

      I am not surprised. All our neighbouring coastal countries have spent vast amounts of money in staff, advise, re-ordering their ports and road systems for this, I cannot imagine that they want a few more weeks of limbo just because the brits have failed to prepare for it.

    48. Thepnr says:

      Statement from President Tusk on Brexit about to be given.

      https://video.consilium.europa.eu/en/webcast/675f39ea-3b14-4e8a-8b1f-75c333acfb94

    49. jfngw says:

      I can only assume that on Theresa May’s desk there is one of those motto plaques, hers probably is ‘the buck stops with you’.

      It’s a bit like watching the end of ‘Downfall’ now, the Tory cabinet are all in the bunker, convinced that victory is still within their grasp.

    50. Breeks says:


      mountain shadow says:
      20 March, 2019 at 3:22 pm

      Therefore, with May’s deal dead, we only have two options, a hard Brexit or repeal of Article 50, i fear the former is now odds on….

      I’m inclined to agree.

      I would through add two more irons in the fire however… Scotland seeking a unilateral revocation of Article 50, or Scotland seeking a unilateral extension of time / holding pen status for Scotland to hold an emergency ratification plebiscite.

      Paradoxically, I don’t even think it matters whether its a Scottish IndyRef2, or a Scottish Euroref2… the vote will be primarily ratifying our sovereign autonomy, and Constitutional Independence.

    51. cearc says:

      How to win friends in your hour of need.

      I see that May has just told parliament, ‘”This house has indulged itself on Europe for too long” – Theresa May.’

      Good job that they foreigners won’t find out!
      I guess that will be a definite love and travel from France then.

    52. misteralz says:

      Oh for fuck’s sake. An extension.

    53. K1 says:

      Tusk has just knocked the ba’ back to UK parliament’s court, they were alway going to act in ‘good faith’ unlike us they apply ‘diplomacy’, they have to act in ‘good faith’…how would it play if they had said ‘no extension’…big bad EU blah blah blah.

      They’ve given her wriggle room…can’t crash out on the 29th.

    54. Thepnr says:

      Tusk talks of just phoning May and accepts a short extension is possible if May’s deal passes but with conditions. Leaders to discuss tomorrow if 30th June is acceptable but says this creates problems.

      The EU seeks a positive outcome but will not reopen the withdrawal agreement.

      It looks like no short extension is to be offered UNTIL May’s deal is passed in Westminster. There was no mention of what happens if her deals fails to pass.

      May has run out of road now to kick the can any further, next week the final decision will be made and I expect May’s deal to fail again that’s if the speaker even allows a vote on it. After failure a short extension will not be available, it will be a long extension that requires the UK taking part in the EU elections or Parliament revoking article 50.

      May might have less than another week as PM to go. A long extension and she’s gone.

    55. Breeks says:

      Tusk will recommend an extension of time for Westminster to secure approval of Theresa’s Withdrawal Agreement. Not sure how that squares with what Macron is saying, but I think I would interpret this as an informal extension to give May one last chance to get her deal approved.

      It seems Brexit will not be determined by a deadline, but whether May’s deal can pass or fail in the Commons.

    56. Graeme J McAllan says:

      Residents of England etc are about to discover there’s nothing “Great” about “Britain”, something we Scots realised years ago 😉

    57. Thepnr says:

      Should have added May couldn’t survive as Prime Minister if there is no deal outcome instead of a long extension either.

      OK it might be with a large dose of wishful thinking but I’m thinking there’s every chance now that her reign as the worst PM in history is coming to a dishonourable end.

      Fingers crossed anyway LOL

    58. Thepnr says:

      Tusks entire statement available at the link below, it’s very short.

      https://europa.eu/!fN96jv

    59. galamcennalath says:

      Telegraph (most of the page behind paywall) ….. “She [May] knows that this could lead us to a no-deal Brexit, with the only available alternative – Mrs May’s deal – suddenly unavailable because of the Speaker’s ruling earlier this week. “

      What happened to the other obvious alternative – revoke A50?

      The far right, and their tame MSM, just don’t want anyone talking about simply calling it all off!

    60. geeo says:

      Was talking earlier about how non Scots voters, particularly English voters, will be left with a horrendous mess with Brexit (or whatever that would be called minus Scotland and minus the uk, since that won’t exist..’F-KofExit’,Former-Kindgom of England exit?).

      Then, the conversation turned to the Rev Stu.

      After years of outstanding service to the indy cause, which frankly, and fair to say without exaggeration, has shaped and influenced the political enlightenment of hundreds of thousands of Scottish voters in that time, what is next for the Rev once independence is achieved ?

      After helping to save Scotland, surely we cannot leave him in England to suffer the upcoming horrors?

      Unless of course, he WANTS to stay put in Bath ?

      So, we came up with an idea.

      If the Rev Stu wants to stay put down in Bath, it seems reasonable to have one special fundraiser, where ALL proceeds go to the man himself, for unbelievable services rendered.

      Of course, if he wanted to come to Indy Scotland, and beat the probable rush to the border, hold the same fundraiser, and gift him a nice wee 6 figure nest egg in his back pocket, which would give him a handy wee start up here.

      A gesture of appreciation is surely the way to go once we gain our Independence back.

    61. galamcennalath says:

      Thepnr says:

      her reign as the worst PM in history is coming to a dishonourable end

      Her days are certainly numbered.

      I suppose what the ‘right thing to do’ depends on your world view and concept of morality.

      To my mind, ANYTHING is better than allowing a ‘no deal’ catastrophe … and therefore if her ‘deal’ is rejected and the EU effectively leave ‘no deal’ looming, the honourable thing yo do would be to revoke A50. She would need to then resign and almost certainly there would be a general election.

      History would look far more kindly on May if she revokes A59 rather than ‘no deal’ exits.

    62. Proud Cybernat says:

      Yup – I’m up for that, Geeo. Rev totally deserves this gift for his incredible service to the cause.

      Things really hotting up now on Brexit front.

      Fan in full turbo mode now with brown stuff flung in every conceivable direction.

    63. SilverDarling says:

      A soul searching speech by Justine Greening about how the Tories have destroyed more than they can ever imagine.

    64. Thepnr says:

      Thinking of Tusk’s statement May and the UK parliament now have a real problem on their hands. So far it appears that the EU will only give a short extension AFTER May’s deal has been approved by parliament.

      They need this certainty so as they can provide an extension that goes beyond the date for the EU elections as the UK will have confirmed they are leaving.

      However the speaker has already ruled out a third vote on May’s deal unless it is substantially changed. If she does not get support from Labour then for an ammended deal then there will be no vote on her deal without change.

      It was being argued by May that an extension agreement with the EU would be sufficient change to bring her deal back for MV3, she hasn’t got that. Everything goes tits up in the coming days that much is obvious, a long extension is needed but to get that we will need a reason that satisfy the EU.

      The EU have lost all patience now with the UK government and have forced May’s hand into making a decision one way or the other.

    65. dom says:

      No Deal Brexit looking more of a certainty by the minute.

      IndyRef2 announcement looking more of a certainty by the minute.

      What’s not to like about Brexit?

    66. Proud Cybernat says:

      Someone just told me May to make a statement tonight. Anyone heard anything?

    67. dom says:

      Did Ian Murray ever find out who put Yes Stickers on his Edinburgh constituency office window???

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      Och this is terrible news:

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/17513906.scotlands-economy-outperforms-the-uk-figures-reveal/

      THE Scottish economy outperformed the UK as a whole in the fourth quarter of last year, latest official data reveal.

      Gross domestic product north of the Border grew by 0.3% in the final quarter of 2018. The UK as a whole grew by 0.2%.

      We’re doomed 🙁

    69. call me dave says:

      Jings!

      The Rt Hon Dominic Grieve and Justine Greening, both Tories,
      telling their party and the watching/listening UK how devious and disreputable this Tory Brexit shambles really is.

      Good for them. 🙂

    70. call me dave says:

      Ooh!
      Bercow gets wind of Theresa’s speech at 19:00hrs to the media while parliament seems to be less important.

      I don’t think he’ll be a happy bunny if that happens.

    71. Lenny Hartley says:

      Geo at 4.41, great idea, however say we raise 100k if he is in bath 50% of that will go into Westminsters Coffers, I think best to try and persuade him to get a Scottish Tax code and do several small(ish) fundraisers over a few years so that he gets to keep the max himself and any taxation goes to what will be the Scottish Exchequer

    72. Macart says:

      Soooo, yet another meaningful vote on….?

      Well according to Mr Tusk any short extension could only be possible if there is some consensus behind May’s deal in parliament.

      Would that be the same deal that’s been voted on twice already and that the speaker said could NOT be returned for a third reading without considerable and significant changes?

      THAT deal. 🙄

    73. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 14:51,

      Well. the EU has certainly upped the pressure on the HoC to take May’s “deal”, warts and all. They clearly want shot of the whole mess ASAP, and hope to avoid a no-deal because that’s bad for them too. Self-preservation.

      This conditional offer could possibly be just enough to bring the Tory+DUP rebels into line long enough to get a Brexit fait accompli then show May the door. Something like this has always been my concern. (Though it does have a Scottish upside, if we’re willing to use it. As we very likely will.)

      But it’s tightrope walking of the highest order. No-deal is the splat if it all goes wrong. And it easily could. Unintended consequences.

      But any realistic hope of PV and withdrawal of Art.50 are dead, dead, dead.

    74. Dr Jim says:

      Did anybody notice in Kay Burley’s cheeky stupid interview with Ian Blackford about her opinions on the € she also stated quite clearly there’s no oil, or the state of the oil, or words to that effect

      Do these people just spout stuff out for the TV or do they really know nothing about the subjects they report on

      Scotland is swimming in oil, literally swimming in the stuff
      The BBC have been announcing it for days and days, there’s apparently more oil now than they ever found before

    75. HandandShrimp says:

      Looks like the EU are going to force a decision. The deal on offer with 3 months extension to implement or No Deal next week.

      The end game approacheth.

      Fearing Indyref2 I see the Unionist are back to the old siren song of whatever shit Britain is in Scotland would be in so much worse shit because we are just useless.

      They ignore the fact that May is hampered by half her party being remainers. The SNP and Greens have no such issues. We don’t have any backstop to tie ourselves in knots with either.

    76. Robert Louis says:

      Just watching HoC, and I can only conclude it is the end of days.

      Please call the freaking referendum, Nicola. And if an election is called, make independence and staying in the EU the main policy offer – with no further vote required. Majority pro indy means the treaty of union will be ended.

      London is f***ed. England is f**ed. Scotland needs independence ASAP.

    77. Breeks says:

      I think the EU has simply put all its eggs in one basket.

      “Ok UK, look Brexit isn’t critical for us until May 23rd, so you have until May 23rd to sort out your shit and tell us if you’re staying or going, and if it’s going, whether it’s with the Withdrawal Agreement or Without it. Those are the options. Make your fkn mind up, and call us when you’re ready.

      Where does this leave Scotland? Well, cue another round of “wait until we know the details”, (sigh) but I would hope the Scottish Government finally starts turning the screw and lobby’s Europe for a bespoke arrangement for Scotland, recognition, Legal Personality, pending a ratification plebiscite.. the whole nine yards.

      Westminster ignores us when we say Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against it’s will. We need to know whether Europe will do likewise. I feel pretty sure they won’t. Give them a Constitutional interface to work with Scotland, and I feel positive that’s exactly what they’ll do. But we need to act first… we need to help them to help us.

      In short, prepare the landscape ready for a referendum.. though I don’t think there will ever be one. If we stay in the Union, it’s deregulated steroids in your cold congealed mince and tatties, misery, powercuts, Tory Governments and economic depression. But if we choose Europe, then here are Europe’s plans for us as an EU member state and poster child for closer EU integration, – investment, comradeship, free movement, common goals, common purpose, growth, … a place for Scotland in the family of Europe.

      Come on Nicola. Less of this “wait and see” and start formalising our sovereign links with Europe and selling the benefits of the “Fifth Freedom” Europe never mentions…the freedom of choice that would allow Scotland to remain.

      Five Freedoms for Scotland! Kinda got a ring to it no?

    78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Macart @ 17:24,

      This offer provides a material change of circumstances, I reckon, so another MV is likely to be acceptable.

      But this megaguddle certainly brings a whole new meaning to the word “meaningful”.

    79. Cubby says:

      Never thought I would praise a speech by a Tory in the Hof Commons but great speech by Justine Greening.

      Strange times.

      Of course does not change my overall opinion of the Britnats.

      Something is going to happen soon.

    80. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 20 March, 2019 at 4:41 pm@

      ” … After helping to save Scotland, surely we cannot leave him in England to suffer the upcoming horrors?”

      No but we could leave him in England by appointing him the main Scottish Ambassador to The Kingdom of England. He is, after all, well known for his, (cough!), diplomacy.

      I’ll get my trike!

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      Ooft
      Brexit: France, Spain and Belgium ready to veto Article 50 extension

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17515127.brexit-france-spain-and-belgium-ready-to-veto-article-50-extension/

      but

      Ian Blackford warns Theresa May ‘Scotland will act’ if Westminster fails on Brexit” [yet again]

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/17514420.ian-blackford-warns-theresa-may-scotland-will-act-if-failed-on-brexit/

      Won’t be long now.

    82. ElGordo says:

      Big money moves on the betting exchanges today:

      No deal exit odds moved in from 7/1 to 4/1

      Article 50 NOT to be extended odds moved in 7/1 to 4/1

    83. Robert Louis says:

      So, Theresa may plans to set the people against the parliament in her ‘speech’ tonight.

      The problem is not the parliament. The problem is not the MP’s. No, the problem is one person, stubborn, pig-headed, petty minded, Theresa May.

    84. K1 says:

      Ooft indeed! yir2

      ———

      Agree with others Justine Greening and Dominic Grieve’s speeches were indeed outstanding. Saliently…laying the cause of this crises at the feet of their own government, rightly so.

    85. Petra says:

      Three years too late.

      ”Theresa May hints she will quit as PM if forced to accept a long delay to Brexit.’

      Theresa May has strongly hinted she will quit if forced to accept a long delay to Brexit, dramatically staking her premiership on tomorrow’s EU summit. “As prime minister, I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than 30 June,” she told MPs – later repeating the statement to drive home the message.”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-long-delay-quit-prime-minister-article-50-request-a8831611.html

    86. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Louis

      Theresa May appears not to care about the trouble she could create by making silly public statements blaming other people for her own actions ie MPs the EU

      If she does that it’d be the most irresponsible lunacy

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      LOL. Nice one! A whole new realism in negotiations:

      “You’re a fucking idiot if you think Scotland will accept that!”

    88. Gary45% says:

      If Scotland won 9-0 against the World Champions, Murdo would say “they weren’t good enough to score 10.
      Its as easy as that.

    89. Elmac says:

      Re @Robert Louis 5.37pm

      You missed out mentally unstable, corrupt and mendacious to name but a few.

    90. Macart says:

      @RJS

      The Tusk statement does offer a change of the circumstances surrounding the deal. But essentially the same deal?

      Regardless, I think we’re about to see Westminster implode. I very much doubt May can alter the numbers in the space of a week. The 8pm statement should make for an interesting bit of theatre.

      1. End run plea to the public
      2. Calls a GE
      3. Scattershot blame game
      4. Tries to punt new book ‘Parliament – My part in its downfall’
      5. All of the above

      😎

    91. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 20 March, 2019 at 5:46 pm:

      ” … LOL. Nice one! A whole new realism in negotiations:
      “You’re a fucking idiot if you think Scotland will accept that!””

      Yeah! That’s a wee variation of my own, slightly shorter, version of, “pish!”

    92. Cubby says:

      Britnats complaining about other Britnats in the Hof Commons telling lies and acting in a dishonourable manner. Well who would have thought that was possible. LOL

      These Britnats have absolutely no self awareness.

      Britnats in a fight to the death with each other = The death of the UK.

    93. Robert Peffers says:

      Well there is one thing certain. No matter what is about to happen. Things will never be the same again.

    94. wull says:

      I think May will propose that the parliament be prorogued as quickly as possible (maybe even tomorrow). This, so that parliament can then be recalled to begin a new session – likewise, as quickly as is legally possible.

      I read somewhere, but I have no idea if it’s true, that a new session can begin three days later. If it could start on Monday, that is when it would start. If not, it would be on the first possible day next week.

      The parliament would have until next Thursday (29th) to make its decision.

      With a new session, it will be possible to have a new vote on her deal. But it will also be possible to bring back any and all motions that have already been debated in what, by then, will be the previous session.

      For May, this will give her time to assemble supporters for her deal (determine the final amount of the bribe to the DUP; make as many promises as she can to any wavering no-dealers in the ERG etc.).

      Will it also give those opposed to her deal a chance to regroup and get behind an alternative? In theory, yes. Because all the motions that have already been heard in the previous session could be re-introduced.

      That includes Hilary Benn’s motion for the parliament to take control of the parliamentary process from the Executive, which only lost by 2 votes the last time. But what chance has it this time, especially if some of those who voted for it the last time did so for opposite reasons?

      It would also include the possibility of introducing one more time a motion for a 2nd referendum. But there is no chance of that winning unless Labour get fully behind it this time – and, even if they do, we know that 18 or so of their MPs denied the whip last time round, and instead of abstaining they voted against it.

      It can only get through this time with considerable numbers of Tory members denying their own whip, and the chances of that are slim indeed.

      There is also the possibility of engineering things so that a General Election happens. But even if that did produce a more Euro-friendly majority in the HoC, what is the likelihood that all 27 EU member-states would unanimously agree to start negotiating again? Even if, for the EU itself, the outcome was bound to be more favourable, you just need one of the 27 to say ‘enough is enough’, and there will be no new deal.

      This is May’s last throw of the dice, but I think she will be confident of winning this time. Those ranged against her do not have a common agenda. She’ll reckon it’s going to be far more difficult for them to combine sufficiently to raise a majority in the HoC FOR something that will BOTH defeat her AND be acceptable to the EU than it will be, for her, to get her deal through.

      She will be thinking she now has what she wanted: it has all boiled down to her deal, or no deal. And she will be thinking that – with that stark choice before them – she will get enough support to get her deal through. If Bad Bad Boris and Muggins Mogg and some of the ERG still don’t come round, there will be a sufficient number of others on the opposition benches to break ranks with their own leaders take their places in the lobby with her, to gain her the victory.

      For May, the question will be: how best to go about it? Does she bring in the motion for her deal first? Or does she wait, and let the other motions go ahead, in the belief that they will go down, picking them off one by one … Until it reaches the point where it really is a stark choice between her deal and no deal.

      In which case, so she thinks, minds will by then be sufficiently concentrated for her to emerge the triumphant winner. Not only will she get her own way, she will rise from the shambles with her authority restored.

      So, at least, she will be hoping …

      In which case she will rise to the dispatch box and not only dance (ugh!) but burst into song, with a rendition of ‘I did it my way’ … (oh no! Let me outta here …)

      I hope very much that I have got this all wrong, and that this scenario never, never – never ever – happens!

      Please, please Mr. Speaker, please find a rule to prevent it! And I don’t care how old and hoary the precedent is – just stop the nightmare from happening!

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart “4. Tries to punt new book ‘Parliament – My part in its downfall’

      I think Bercow may have saved the UK Parliament itself – which is his job. He’s not responsible for the poor quality of 90% of the politicians of the two major parties.

      That would be down to the electorate – and party selection.

    96. Gary45% says:

      Mr Peffers@6.07
      You are 100% correct.

    97. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, ultimately actually, the Queen has a responsibility to ensure there is a functioning government of the UK, AND the right to dissolve Parliament if it isn’t.

    98. H Scott says:

      Rumours at Westminster that the Queen has applied for German citizenship. Something to do with protecting her assets as an EU National.

    99. Calum McKay says:

      Most will recall the usual attack by tories against the SNP. Business hates anything and everything the SNP do, whilst loving tory policies.

      This is highly ironic when these figures are looked at, especially when it’s obvious the next prime minister of England, a tory said ‘f+*k business!” in relation to his latest whim on brexit.

      It’s time for business inScotland to review where it’s best interests lie and its allegiances are, it ain’t the tories!

    100. dom says:

      Treeza speech from Downing St at 8pm.

      No more details.

    101. BJ says:

      Kaye Burnley’s ignorance on facts is historic. She made her feelings towards Scotland quite plain when she said that Britain was run by a foreigner. She meant Gordon Brown when he was PM.

    102. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh – my – God. Channel 4 “fact check” on Blackford v Burley

      https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-would-have-to-adopt-euro-after-joining-eu

      FUCKING ENTIRELY misses the point that a member state can NOT be forced into the ERM, even though they mention the ERM.

      What complete dicks.

    103. jfngw says:

      Triggering Article 50 was overwhelming supported by Labour without any idea of what they wanted from the deal, their hands are on this shambles as much as the Tories.

      Here is the rebels that voted against triggering article 50, I can’t spot a Labour or Tory from Scotland that voted against the trigger.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38835101

    104. Macart says:

      @yesindyref2 6.12pm

      He’s certainly made the effort. How his efforts pan out in the face of that chamber though?

      I strongly suspect people are beginning to catch onto the fact that you get what you vote for, and sometimes a whole lot more besides that you didn’t.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      Channel four joined the Better Together campaign early didn’t they

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      Has Murdo Fraser gotten over his prejudice against post-structuralism or is he still a bit colonial in his world outlook? 🙂

    107. Thepnr says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      This offer provides a material change of circumstances, I reckon, so another MV is likely to be acceptable.

      I’m not entirely sure that it is a material change of circumstances. So far at least from the Tusk statement I fail to see any offer yet from the EU from what Tusk has said:

      “I believe a short extension will be possible but it will be conditional on a positive vote on the withdrawal agreement in the HOC. The question remains open as to the duration of such an extension, PM May’s proposal of the 30th June, which has it’s merits creates a series of questions of a legal and political nature. Leaders will discuss this tomorrow.”

      Picture maybe will become clearer tomorrow but the fact remains the EU have totally lost faith in May and have thrown down the gauntlet for Westminster and not May to pick up.

      May is on the way out, she has nowhere and no one to turn too and the EU know this, not much longer now to know where we might be headed before things become just a little clearer. I say just a little because unless it’s a no deal straight off on the 29th there are still many possible outcomes in my opinion.

    108. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry, eating my tea, delicious! They were on offer …

      Participation in ERM II is voluntary although, as one of the convergence criteria for entry to the euro area, a country must participate in the mechanism without severe tensions for at least two years before it can qualify to adopt the euro.

      https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area/introducing-euro/adoption-fixed-euro-conversion-rate/erm-ii-eus-exchange-rate-mechanism_en

      Participation in ERM II is voluntary

      So The Channel 4 “fact check” is nothing of the sort, and Kay Burley is ignorant.

    109. geeo says:

      The commons vote app is good for checking out details of WM votes.

      Link to app stores at bottom page. (Avoids via bbc)

      https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2016/november/mobile-app-for-vote-results-launched/

    110. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 20 March, 2019 at 6:17 pm:

      ” … Mmm, ultimately actually, the Queen has a responsibility to ensure there is a functioning government of the UK, AND the right to dissolve Parliament if it isn’t.”

      Nope! She actually only legally has that right for the parliament of the kingdom of England over which she is legally sovereign but there hasn’t been a legally elected parliament of The Kingdom of England since 1707.

      However, she has the legal responsibility to defend the legally sovereign people of Scotland’s sovereignty or the people can sack her. Strange, isn’t it, that in spite of Westminster ripping Scotland off since 1707 not a single Monarch of Scots has been sacked by the Scots. Do you think there just might be history made in the very near future?

    111. Terry says:

      @stewartb

      Ageee with you 100%. I’ve expressed disappointment and irritation at Snp politicians referring to the UK as THE COUNTRY! It’s not. Or even worse – the nation. Get it right. They need a lesson from Robert peffers. Mindset is important.

    112. Hamish100 says:

      mark francois MP – WE WON THE WAR Numpty on Ch 4. Explain to me why many brexiters have foreign names???

    113. mr thms says:

      Scotland’s GDP will have had a very substantial boost from the surge in oil and gas production in the past year. With more new fields coming on-stream this year. Unfortunately, the figures are excluded from the Scottish figures because the UK created an ‘Extra regio’ and they are therefore only included in the UK’s statistics. See what they did there? Can’t have oil and gas skewing the Scottish figures only the UK ones..

    114. jfngw says:

      @yesindyref2

      If only there was an example of a EU country that has refused to join the ERM and the EU has accepted this….oh hold on!

    115. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh wow, wasn’t too sure who Kay Burley was, yrtis:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Burley

      Stop sniggering at the back!

    116. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2.

      “So The Channel 4 “fact check” is nothing of the sort, and Kay Burley is ignorant.”

      Yes, I thought so as well, also, too, an’a’.

      A bit like the lack of awareness/knowledge displayed by the London-centric media in the 3rd episode of BBC Scotland’s indyref documentary.

      Hail the imperial masters!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMXuEmqAHA

    117. Petra says:

      Kirsty Hughes:-

      ”May to address nation on why she’s allowing no deal threat to hang over the UK. Commons shd go for vote of no confidence, temporary government of national unity, then either people’s vote or revoke A50.”

      https://twitter.com/KirstyS_Hughes/status/1108413613033906177

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      I’ve put that on wayback by the way, just in case it’s been editied today by some “troll” as she calls them.

      It’s a classic. And a cracker!

    119. jfngw says:

      I suspect that Theresa May is going to emerge at 20:00 tonight and announce to the public that the fault for the Brexit shambles is everybody else’s fault. Then a barrage of cliches, a sort of blast from the past of her favourites.

    120. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      We’ll have to wait and see if there’s to be any difference between the commonly accepted “UK”, or its components. Might not be too long to wait either, if that’s the selected A-Z plan 🙂

      @BDTT
      Haven’t seen it yet, only watched 1 so far – was busy getting out a pre-Brexit order which went off today 48 hour courier (paid already) 🙂

      Oh, Aug 2018 wiki for Burley is the same.

    121. Thepnr says:

      Kuenssberg of the BBC has an article, she believes:

      “The EU will probably give Theresa May the short delay she seeks – but only if she achieves what has eluded her for months, and she passes her deal through Parliament.
      Reluctant Tories and some concerned Labour MPs could move to help her if faced with that deal or no delay – implying leaving with no deal at all.

      If that doesn’t happen, and Parliament tries to force a longer delay for a different approach, then the prime minister might quit.”

      http://archive.fo/iPAlf

    122. auld highlander says:

      Is she going to quit live at 8.15pm?

    123. Liam says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      20 March, 2019 at 7:25 pm

      Oh wow, wasn’t too sure who Kay Burley was, yrtis:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Burley

      Stop sniggering at the back!

      Burley was brought up in Beech Hill, Wigan, Lancashire,[3][4] the daughter of parents who worked in a cardboard factory,

      I wonder if it got soggy when it rained?

    124. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 19:04,

      Yes, it is arguable. But perhaps just enough window-dressing for Bercow to let it pass. It all depends on what his thinking is, so yes, we’ll see the morn.

      Or maybe in a few minutes. Another UKGE would likely force the EU to grant a delay, but I can’t see that actually solving anything. At this juncture, it could even destroy the Tory Party.

    125. Robert Louis says:

      So-called ‘journalist’ kay Burley, and Channel4’s laughingly titled ‘fact’ check, should read this;

      https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-European-countries-which-dont-use-the-euro-as-their-currency

      It is a very odd thing how people in the media and others still cling to this nonsense about Scotland getting FORCED to use the Euro. The fact is, that any country needs to exhibit the right financial profile for at least two years before getting accepted. Part of this is the adherence to the ERM II (exchange rate mechanism), for a period of two years.

      ENTRY TO THE ERM IS VOLUNTARY, QED using the Euro cannot be forced on a country.

      But aside from all that, whilst the EU might want to encourage member states to adopt the Euro, their is no good reason why they would want to literally force countries to do so against their wishes. To even consider that as being likely, is beyond childish. It is just a very odd thing to believe.

      As for kay burley, the so-called ‘journalist, I have heard her regurgitate this utter nonsense about Scotland and the Euro many times. Either she is just too smug and thick to consider actually checking the FULL facts, or she just enjoys lying. It really is one or the other.

      Overall, I think the rubbish Kay Burley spouts on the Euro, is representative of the tenuous grasp of facts on how the EU works, that so-called ‘journalists’ have. As for Channel4 news, they have always been blindly biased against Scottish independence – probably due to ignorance of the facts.

    126. HandandShrimp says:

      Like others I have no idea who Burley is. I am not inclined to care either.

      I see on C4 news right now that ultra Yoon David Clews is less than convincing in his protestations of not formenting hate. What a jolly crew our Yoonist chooms are 🙂

    127. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 20 March, 2019 at 6:31 pm:

      Oh – my – God. Channel 4 “fact check” on Blackford v Burley
      https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-would-have-to-adopt-euro-after-joining-eu
      FUCKING ENTIRELY misses the point that a member state can NOT be forced into the ERM, even though they mention the ERM.
      What complete dicks.”

      Nah”! They, and apparently, you are missing a couple of very important legal facts.

      The First being that the Treaty of Union agrees that the Pound Sterling will be the currency of Both United Kingdom partners. The Pound is as much Scottish as it is English.

      The second is that the Bank of England has never, in it’s entire history, belonged to the Kingdom of England. It began as a private company, 9and to this day its full title is, “The Guvnor And Company of the Bank of England”. It was not called the Bank of England because England owned it but because the Kingdom of England Crown/parliament banked with it.

      In any event it remained an independent private company until 1946 when the United Kingdom Government, (not the Kingdom of England), nationalised it. It is thus a negotiable part of the assets of the two kingdom partnership that is legally the United Kingdom.

      So there you go – check it out in Google if you do not believe me.:-

      https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/626/economics/who-owns-the-bank-of-england/

      Oh! And by the way the claim it was set up by William Paterson is also mince. William Paterson set up the subscription scheme to raise money to bail out the English Crown/Parliament that had massive national debt.

      He did not start the BofE. It was the subscription scheme that led to the bank of England and William Paterson was not part of, “The Governor and Company of the Bank of Bank of England”.

    128. Robert Louis says:

      jfngw at 731pm,

      I think you are spot on. Theresa May intends pleading for the country to get behind her, and the problems are all the fault of the HoC. Of course the real obstacle is Theresa May, though I doubt the penny has dropped yet. But she is a proven and repeated liar, of epic proportions, so she might indeed say anything.

    129. Heart of Galloway says:

      Theresa May has some serious OCD stuff going on with her precious Brexit deal. The more it is threatened, the tighter she clings to it as it decomposes.

      And now she will address ‘das volk’ over the heads of elected politicians. She will offer nothing new. Instead, it will be a sordid populist appeal with its roots in the darkest recesses of English fascism. Europe, au secours!

    130. jfngw says:

      Corbyn has apparently gone full Wolfie, Tooting is cheering him on.

    131. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 19:39,

      Oh, the pressure is definitely on the HoC to bend to the will (say yes to the dross), but it could so easily go any-which-way.

      Shit Creek keeps on rising and the paddle is long gone.

      (We still have it carefully stashed away!)

    132. Socrates MacSporran says:

      jfngw @ 7.56pm

      Brilliant, another lap top keyboard and screen to clean up after taking a slurp of coffee, then laughing.

    133. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Louis @ 19:49,

      Just made my own forceful representations to Ch.4 on that score. I regard them as the TV equivalent of the Graun, all progressive posture but unable to make any of it bear on home turf.

      Referred to it as “anglosplaining”.

    134. Petra says:

      Big Brother is Watching You.

      ‘Leaked emails shine light on MoD pro-indy discrimination case.’

      …”Now evidence has emerged that figures within the MoD began asking questions about whether or not (Chris) McEleny should keep his job as far back as 2012. A source told The National: “It doesn’t look too good for the MoD.”…

      …“I do not know if he has declared the fact that he is an SNP councillor to DBS NSV [the unit that vets defence employees and contractors]. However, when questioned, they have stated to my staff that they have an open file on this individual at the moment (dating back to 2004).”

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17510139.leaked-emails-shine-light-on-mod-pro-indy-discrimination-case/

    135. Benhope says:

      To sum up.

      Nicola has not put a foot wrong.

      Westminster is in turmoil and both Tory and Labour parties are shown as weak and lacking in leadership.

      We are expected to leave the EU by the end of June.

      Yes, wait a little bit longer and then strike.

      We will never have a better chance of achieving a positive future for Scotland.

    136. Robert Peffers says:

      @auld highlander says: 20 March, 2019 at 7:40 pm:

      ” … Is she going to quit live at 8.15pm?”

      Nah! More likely half dead, as usual. Not the first time she has croaked on TV.

      Seriously, though, there will almost certainly be very long list of ended political careers when there is the next election. Look at it this way- the vote to leave was a close run thing and Scotland were greatly against leaving. That means it was even closer in England.

      So there will hardly be a constituency where the sitting MP has not lost a lot of voters and heads will roll.

    137. call me dave says:

      Right!

      Chewing on the corner of my comfort blanket now so bring her on.

      Anything can happen in the next 15 minutes. 🙂

    138. Heart of Galloway says:

      Euronews reporting that Ian Blackford said Theresa May offered ‘nothing new” in talks with him today. Corbyn stormed out, while in the last seconds on C4 The Greens’ Caroline Lucas spoke of May linking support for her deal to a possible PV.

      Cathy Newman, naturally, gushed at ‘a possible breakthrough’. I’ll stick wi’ Blackford.

    139. SilverDarling says:

      What’s the betting May will say the same thing she has said time and time before? It will be her deal or no deal and she will blame everyone else if it doesn’t go through.

      Shrugs her stooping shoulders and goes off for endless walking holidays paid from investments in tax-free havens overseas.

    140. jfngw says:

      I think we can safely ignore any ‘fact checks’ from the MSM regarding Scotland and independence. They will search out the wording that meets their objective. The fact their is already EU countries outwith the Euro that may never join will be ignored, the documents that state joining the ERM is voluntary will somehow not be found.

      The strange thing is most of the new countries seem to want to actually join the Euro, can”t see any that think adopting the pound would be a wise move.

    141. Liam says:

      so… ten minutes late kicking off, and counting. I think she’s getting the nerve up for saying something she really really really doesn’t want to say.

    142. SilverDarling says:

      @jfngw

      Channel 4 is as bad as the rest when it comes to Scotland. They are all just closing ranks as one of their own ( even though Burley is Sky) was made to look foolish.

    143. galamcennalath says:

      Propaganda by omission. Ensuring that the Tory Government narrative is followed.

      They never mention that the backstop was the UK’s preferred solution to NI. The EU wanted NI to stay in the single market while the rest of the UK could follow May’s red lines. May doesn’t want to ‘split’ the UK.

      They never draw attention to the obvious solution – withdraw the A50 and cancel Brexit.

    144. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      dom @ 20:26,

      Your blood pressure then was mercifully spared – unlike mine – if you missed the ones on proud display when May was hosting Japanese PM Abe. Carefully folded to show big red crosses and only the merest peek of blue.

      Just to artistically balance and match the red disc of the visitor’s flag, ‘natch. =innocent whistle=

    145. jfngw says:

      @SilverDarling

      Yep, noticed that on twitter, insult one you insult them all. They are like a band of brothers, even the pro indy ones don’t like the public taking issue with any journalist.

    146. Thepnr says:

      Theresa May is a danger to the public and needs locking up.

    147. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      More insidious proto-fascistic demagogery from May. She just wants to make the HoC run on time.

    148. Liam says:

      So. Nothing new. Get on with it. My deal… my deal… my deal…

    149. geeo says:

      dom@8.26pm

      Anti english bigotry gets pretty short change on here.

      Post reported.

    150. call me dave says:

      Jings! She’s away in to get the missing page…..??

      Pretty amateurish really…see me public…I throw myself down before you…help me. 🙁

    151. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      This ongoing parade of unicorns has not only upended the meaning of “meaningful”, but also the meaning of “advisory”.

      Still, a spring IR2 suits us just fine.

    152. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez! Deja vu!?!? Righto.

      Deal or No deal (same as yesterday) and it’s everyone’s fault in parliament but mine. Honest peeps!

      End run to the public it was then.

      A more disingenuous, scapegoating, pile of horse wossiname you’d be hard put to find.

    153. Heart of Galloway says:

      MPs to blame, says Franco May. ‘you the public have had enough, I am on your side.’ Now is the time for MPs to decide.’

      ‘I am not prepared to delay Brexit beyond 30 June’.

      No to eu ref she wails. And the codicil: ‘You asked us to get on with it and that is what I am determined to do.’

      And that was it. The reheated cauld kail of a dead woman walking.

    154. Petra says:

      Prime Minister Callaghan (Labour) who was involved in hiding the McCrone Report from the Scots.

      ……….

      Letter in the National.

      Mary McCabe, Glasgow:- ‘SNP’s 1978 challenge over oil fund was met with a cheap insult.’

      ”Regarding Jim Cuthbert’s suggestion that the Scottish Government should demand reparations from the UK Government for having squandered Scotland’s oil assets and refused to set up an oil fund as Norway did, readers might be interested in the following extract of a debate in the House of Commons (taken from Hansard March 21 1978):

      Margaret Bain (SNP) to Prime Minister (James Callaghan):
      “….does he accept that there will be bitter disappointment in Scotland that no special oil fund is to be set up as promised in the Labour Party’s manifesto? Many people will feel that, while he himself may have been piped into the Labour Party conference at Dunoon, Scotland’s oil resources are being piped very quickly from Scotland? There will be no control under which we can monitor the way in which the Scottish Exchequer spends the oil revenues in Scotland.”

      The Prime Minister:
      “…I hope that the Hon Lady will read the White Paper objectively and apply her mind to whether it would be possible to set up an oil fund that would be meaningful. It would be wrong to deceive the Scottish electors into believing that it would be possible to do this. I hope that the Hon Lady will not allow her party to do so.”

      Mr Robert Hughes (Labour):
      “Does my Right Hon Friend accept that there will be a great welcome in Scotland, as well as in the whole of the country, for the emphasis which he has put on the need to use North Sea oil revenues for investment in future prospects and future industry? Is that not in stark contrast to the attitude of both Hon Ladies who have asked questions – the Leader of the Opposition (Margaret Thatcher) and the Hon Member for Dunbartonshire East (Mrs Bain SNP) – whose only concern seemed to be to get their snouts in the trough quickly and early?”

      The Prime Minister:
      “I believe that the country wants us to look ahead on these matters and would not accept the view of the Conservative opposition that the proceeds should be spent solely on tax reductions. That was the only thing that I heard mentioned. I did not hear anything else. If the Opposition are saying that they agree that money must be applied to the rehabilitation of our great cities, they agree with us entirely and I do not know what all the noise was about during my statement.”

      So already back in 1978 the SNP challenged Labour to keep its promise to set up an oil fund and the Labour response was a cheap insult about snouts and troughs.

      The Prime Minister’s jibe about the Tory proposal of (no surprise here!) tax cuts being the only other suggestion he had heard mentioned proves that for over 40 years the UK Government has been ostentatiously ignoring the existence of the SNP MPs in hopes they would go away. They didn’t.”

      ……………………………………………………….

      Looks as though Robert Hughes, Baron Hughes of Woodside, managed to get his snout stuck in the trough. Now Lord Hughes. One of the four Scottish Labour clowns that b*ggered up the 1979 devolution referendum.

      …”He was the Member of Parliament (MP) for Aberdeen North from 1970 to 1997. James Callaghan, on the subject of the infamous 1979 vote of no confidence that resulted from his government overturning the YES result of the Scottish devolution referendum, blamed the rebels on his own benches, rather than the SNP, for ultimately bringing about the collapse of his government and opening the door to the victory of the Conservatives under Margaret Thatcher. Robert Hughes was one of those “rebels”. Tam Dalyell, Peter Doig, and Adam Hunter were the other Scottish Labour MPs who helped overturn the YES vote.

      On 27 September 1997 he was created a Life peer as Baron Hughes of Woodside, of Woodside in the City of Aberdeen.”…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hughes,_Baron_Hughes_of_Woodside

      https://beta.parliament.uk/people/3oj2yMIH

    155. Hamish100 says:

      Dom. Post out of order.

      Back to reality.

      There is another option to Brexit Scottish Independence.

    156. jfngw says:

      Missed the speech but I think I found it on youtube.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmum3glL1DA

    157. Heart of Galloway says:

      Big chance for The Nine to gazump the 6.30 crew coming right up.,.

    158. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I wasn’t aware that righteously objecting to displays of establishment cultural dominance via that unlovely rag has suddenly become un-PC. Seems more like necessary re-framing to me.

      Save us from the self-appointed school prefects.

    159. jfngw says:

      Good news for Robert Lindsay (69), BBC possibly contemplating bringing back Citizen Smith. Luckily he is the right age to revive this role but now as a man that has managed to gain control of a political party but is still trapped in his 1970’s rebel persona.

      The first episode has him attend an EU meeting but storms out as he does believe that some of those attending are real countries. They certainly didn’t exist in his 1970’s heyday.

    160. t42 says:

      “The EU elections must not go ahead in May, so im only keeping us in until June.”

      Well now its clear why things haven’t gone smoothly, she’s only gone and hung her calendar up back to front.

    161. Nicola says:

      The one thing missing from that pointless PM speech was any acknowledgment of the massive responsibility she bears for this mess. She could have changed course after the first defeat of her deal. But she is still trying to force a choice between a bad deal and no deal. Shameful

    162. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      So TMay says “I am not prepared to delay Brexit beyond 30 June”.

      I wasn’t aware the Commons had voted to accept her EU Withdrawal Agreement already as per Donald Tusks statement:

      “I believe that a short extension will be possible, but it will be conditional on a positive vote on the Withdrawal Agreement in the House of Commons” – D Tusk, 17:30hrs 20/03/2019.

      https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2019/03/20/statement-by-president-donald-tusk-on-brexit/

      😉

      The Right Wing Neo-Fascist Tory UK Government still bullshitting the public, ably assisted by the British Nationalist Media.

      Looking a lot like No Deal.

    163. Petra says:

      @ Robert Louis says at 7:49 pm …. ”As for kay burley, the so-called ‘journalist, I have heard her regurgitate this utter nonsense about Scotland and the Euro many times. Either she is just too smug and thick to consider actually checking the FULL facts, or she just enjoys lying. It really is one or the other. Overall, I think the rubbish Kay Burley spouts on the Euro, is representative of the tenuous grasp of facts on how the EU works, that so-called ‘journalists’ have. As for Channel4 news, they have always been blindly biased against Scottish independence – probably due to ignorance of the facts.”

      I see that Burley has been reported to Ofcom on thousands of occasions. Maybe we should all think of reporting her too in an attempt to nip the lying in the bud?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Burley

    164. robbo says:

      I wish a big asteroid from space would just hit now- am kinda done wae this mince.

      Brexit will never have happened- job done.

    165. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I see the Maybot has morphed into Violet Elizabeth Bott.

      Everyone must do as she says, or she will skweam and skweam and skweam until she is sick – and she knows she can.

      Where are the “Men in Grey Suits” of the Conservative Party when their country needs them?

      We cannot resurrect Cromwell, but, surely someone can tell her to: “For God’s sake go.”

    166. Capella says:

      Totally underwhelming speech from PM. Late too. The online reception seems to be negative. It’s hard to see how this idiot can carry on pretending to be the PM much longer.

      What a state of affairs.

    167. manandboy says:

      Under increasing pressure, something has to give.

      Round and round and round the Brexit roundabout Westminster continues to go but each time they arrive at any one of the three turnoffs available, 1.May’s deal, 2.No deal Brexit, or 3.Cancel Brexit, either the Government or the House of Commons says no.
      May will not countenance cancellation, the Commons won’t tolerate No Deal and May’s deal can’t be changed but the HoC have voted it down twice.
      Under ever increasing pressure something has to give.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-theresa-may-eu-article-50-extend-france-germany-a8829391.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

      “If the UK does not get an extension it will either have to pass the Brexit deal, revoke Article 50 to cancel Brexit, or leave without a deal – with the latter option expected to cause economic chaos.

      Theresa May has been criticised previously by EU leaders for turning up to meetings in Brussels without clear and precise technical demands. At a summit in December Ms May was reportedly asked, “what exactly is it that you want?” by German chancellor Angela Merkel, while she pleaded for assistance to pass her Brexit deal, but could not spell out exactly what measures she wanted.”

    168. hackalumpoff says:

      Janey says;

      twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/1108467614123261954

    169. jfngw says:

      I didn’t think many people in Scotland watched Sky news, why would you, it’s Scottish content is dire. But if you are an indy supporter and subscribe to Sky you are effectively paying Burley’s wages.

      Same with the BBC, but they have you by the short and curly’s if you want to watch anything live. The mafia would love their deal with the government, you need to pay even if you don’t consume the product. The perfect extortion racket.

    170. ahundredthidiot says:

      yet another popcorn moment – cant wait for the backlash tomorrow!

    171. call me dave says:

      Jings! Glen C. on now explaining it all to us Scotties.

      That’s 15mins of the 9 and I’m struggling to find anything new in it.

      May’s taking an enormous gamble he says…no shit Sherlock!

      SNP wanting revocation of A50 now… we all knew that yesterday.

      Oh a debate… oh no…not until 22:45hrs.

      Good night Vienna 🙁

    172. Iain 2 says:

      Anyone notice, Wings of late has been on fire.
      The evil empire’s end is neigh.

    173. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      The Dugs take:

      “We were screwed last week, and we’re screwed this week too. The UK is the land of cognitive dissonance, a misplaced exceptionalism, and nostalgic fantasy passing for policy. It’s five to midnight and nothing has changed. Nothing has changed.
      Scotland, it’s time to wake up. This is not the UK that we were sold in 2014. It’s a UK that has sold us all out.”

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/03/20/nothing-has-changed-nothing-has-changed/

    174. One_Scot says:

      Theresa Mays speech in full if anyone missed it.

      https://twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/1108467614123261954

    175. call me dave says:

      That UK can of worms is taking a hell of a kicking.

      So if no deal who will dare erect a backstop border in Ireland?

      Maybe just hand out EU flags and lollipops instead. 🙂

      Anyhoo!
      Tomorrow is another day down the rabbit hole for a ‘tired’ public.

    176. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Janey Godley’s twitter piece made more sense than Lino’s address to the nation did.

      Lino should maybe resign and give the job to Steven Gerrard, he’d get England out of Europe in jig time.

    177. Davosa says:

      Murdo’The Unelectable Bigot’ Fraser MSP for PM. He is the only one, well maybe Ross Thompson as well, who could make the Maybot arsehole look better.

    178. alistair x says:

      the time is out of joint,
      behold the hero,
      to set the clock aright.
      lets hit the swine hard! see you all sunday.

    179. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Some folk are mad but Westminster is completely abusing the privilege.

      Never in the history of government has so many people appeared crazy to so many people.

      I enjoy watching politics from a safe distance, in the past have even dipped the toe in the putrid water on occasion, but I have to say what in the name of god is going on.

      Anyone actually keeping up with this mess deserves a seat at Holyrood.(in an independent Scotland)

    180. ElGordo says:

      Speech focusing on MP’s was intended to divide & isolate her own and opposition MP’s further, rather than to bring together.

      Odds on No Deal and No extension jumped significantly after.

      Pure theatre, those nasty french conspiring against us.

      So either no deal on Friday (unlikely, good for I2), The deal next week (50/50, ok for I2) or longer extension (most likely and bad for I2).

    181. Dr Jim says:

      It would be easy to just laugh at this woman but what Mrs May did tonight was despicable and rabble rousing and the Daily Mail will likely use it to create a rabble with stupid headlines now, we’ll know later I suppose

      This woman has now declared herself a danger to the public and should be removed for what she’s just done and possibly put the safety of MPs in jeopardy

      We all know the BNP UKIP EDL loonies will get out on the streets now and quite possibly hurt people and if they do Theresa May should be held fully accountable for inciting it

      MPs or whoever runs that loony bin in England needs to remove this woman now before she does anymore damage and get real and give the job to someone with intelligence like Dominic Grieve, I know he’s a Tory but he’s an actual human being and that’s rare in the Tory party

    182. ElGordo says:

      Yep and Colin Firth can play him in “Brexit The Movie”

    183. ElGordo says:

      Maybe the old git out of steptoe & son for Corbyn

      “There’s more in the clause”

    184. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liam@7:40pm
      Think you can get away with limp material like that?

    185. cearc says:

      Socrates,

      ‘Where are the “Men in Grey Suits” …’

      I think the ‘… those nice young Men in their clean white coats’ might be more useful. She could run through the wheatfields of ‘the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time.’

    186. ElGordo says:

      Zelda from terrahawks for Treezer

    187. Essexexile says:

      Wasted half an hour of my life waiting just in case she’d announced that it was all just a bad dream, then listened in disgust as she told me she’s on my side.
      I was reminded again at how utterly awful she presents herself. Prickly, detached and fundamentally unlikeable.
      There must be some MPs who reject her deal purely because they can’t stand the bloody woman. I know I would.

    188. jfngw says:

      I see Pete Wishart pushing for A50 rescinding. But where does that leave us if it happens as it removes the mandate. After all that has transpired in the last 3 years is that the best we can hope for?

      Not for me it isn’t, the complete contempt has left me totally despising Westminster, I want no further involvement with it. My concern is many Scots will give a sigh of relief and just carry on as before.

    189. X_Sticks says:

      Petition to Revoke Article 50:

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

      Now at 176,115.

      It’s going up even faster than one of the Rev’s fundraisers (and that’s saying something!

    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland@8:53pm
      I reckon it was the tone and targeted nature of Dom’s hostility that was an issue for some, myself included.

    191. Thepnr says:

      I’ve watched her statement on video but it’s even worse reading it. It’s all the MP’s fault and I’m with all you ordinary people who just want it all over with, I’m here to help you.

      I’m posting the whole thing as it has to be saved on Wings.

      Nearly three years have passed since the public voted to leave the European Union. It was the biggest democratic exercise in our country’s history.

      I came to office on a promise to deliver on that verdict.
      In March 2017 I triggered the Article 50 process for the UK to exit the EU and Parliament supported it overwhelmingly. Two years on, MPs have been unable to agree on a way to implement the UK’s withdrawal. As a result, we will now not leave on time with a deal on the 29th of March.

      This delay is a matter of great personal regret for me. And of this I am absolutely sure:

      You, the public, have had enough. You’re tired of the infighting, you’re tired of the political games and the arcane procedural rows, tired of MPs talking about nothing else but Brexit when you have real concerns about our children’s schools, our National Health Service, knife crime.

      You want this stage of the Brexit process to be over and done with. I agree. I am on your side. It is now time for MPs to decide.

      So, today, I have written to Donald Tusk the President of the European Council to request a short extension of Article 50 up to the 30th of June to give MPs the time to make a final choice. Do they want to leave the EU with a deal which delivers on the result of the referendum, that takes control of our money borders and laws while protecting jobs and our national security?

      Do they want to leave without a deal, or do they not want to leave at all causing potentially irreparable damage to public trust not just in this generation of politicians but to our entire democratic process?

      It is high time we made a decision.

      So far, Parliament has done everything possible to avoid making a choice. Motion after motion and amendment after amendment has been tabled without Parliament ever deciding what it wants. All MPs have been willing to say is what they do not want.

      I passionately hope MPs will find a way to back the deal I’ve negotiated with the EU, a deal that delivers on the result of the referendum and is the very best deal negotiable. And I will continue to work night and day to secure the support of my colleagues, the DUP and others for this deal. But I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than the 30th of June.

      Some argue that I’m making the wrong choice and I should ask for a longer extension to the end of the year or beyond to give more time for politicians to argue over the way forward.

      That would mean asking you to vote in European elections nearly three years after our country decided to leave. What kind of message would that send? And just how bitter and divisive would that election campaign be at a time when the country desperately needs bringing back together.

      Some have suggested holding a second referendum. I don’t believe that’s what you want and it is not what I want. We asked you the question already and you’ve given us your answer.

      Now you want us to get on with it. And that is what I am determined to do.

    192. ElGordo says:

      hmmm, maybe Wicked Witch of the West is better for Treezer, with our very own Dorothy & her ruby red shoes.

      The journey to independence with our fellow political parties, in need of courage(lab), a brain(lib) and a heart(con), and the perils along the way, the wolves & crows (the meedja).

      Time for us throw the bucket of water over treezer and pull back the curtain on, ourselves.

    193. Bob Mack says:

      Theresa has just endangered the safety of many MPS.
      Inciting the public can ,have as we know from Ms Cox, grave consequences.

    194. Thepnr says:

      @X_Sticks

      I see your petition is at 210,000 and increasing at a rate of around 2000/minute.

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

    195. Phil says:

      Thepnr says: 20 March, 2019 at 10:23 pm

      “… it’s even worse reading it. It’s all the MP’s fault …”

      Thank you Thepnr, what a terrible read! She is almost inviting something unparliamentary to take the stage. She is so out of this world she knows not what she is saying.

    196. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 21:09:

      I see the Maybot has morphed into Violet Elizabeth Bott.

      Oh, brilliant! That gave me a chuckle.

      And she does it all so woodenly while she’s at it. She can’t even get that role right.

      She rather personifies the zombie BritNat state. Already dead but doesn’t realise it.

      Yet.

    197. Simon Curran says:

      Bit ironic appealing to the public when she has snubbed any possibility of a People’s Vote.

    198. PacMan says:

      Unbelievable speech from May and I’m not saying that in a good way.

      As Dr Jim says, this is nothing but rabble rousing and appealing to the lowest common denominator populism and it is going to cause a lot of trouble.

      It does, however brings to focus some of the my thoughts on a number of things, including the role of the SNP should really be doing now in this Brexit mess, how the next indy referendum campaign should fought and the role of the media amongst other things.

      As seen in this topic, any time somebody from the SNP gets a chance to go on the media it is only to bash the SNP and the indy cause. They are ignored every other time when they are positively contributing some sense to this ongoing Brexit fiasco.

      The SNP was elected to represent the interests of the Scottish people, not to save the UK. They have done everything in their powers to stop Brexit and nobody is listening. Is it really time for them to start playing a passive role in this and let things play out to it’s logical conclusion which is political paralysis and frankly, anarchy?

      This passive role ties in with my thoughts about the next indyref campaign. We have seen that from the recent British Broadcasting Corporation documentary that the 2014 indyref could have been won if not for the propaganda of that media outlet but it wasn’t won. The no side won by dirty tricks and project fear smears. The Yes campaign was positive and I feel that it was right for that one because the outcome, while lost, gave the belief in the right to assert the desire of independence in the wider Scottish public consciousness. We’ve won that right and now we have to win it. That means the next campaign has to be different. Why not take a leaf out of the No campaign and have a project fear campaign ourselves?

      That project fear isn’t the outright lies, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) and smears of the 2014 no campaign but a more subtle, passive one where No voters are presented with the fear of the out of control populism and political anarchy south of the border spreading up here but also the nudge that independence can save them from that.

      As I mentioned last night, the Tories and the ‘whats in it for me’ closest Tories need to come over. At the moment the populism that is gripping England is right wing but what happens if a Blair type from the centre left latches onto this populism and pushes it leftwards?

      This may sound contradictory as the indy movement is mostly to the centre-left but populism regardless of where it is in the political spectrum is dangerous. There is also the fact that an independent Scotland needs to be a cohesive society, both politically and socially. That means consensus and compromise. That is an offer that can be given to Scottish Tories and their fellow travellers to get onboard to indy.

      This of course may not be possible due to the indy movement becoming fragmented and without a single coherent voice due to trying to please many differing and sometimes diametrically opposite opinion but some of what I mentioned is worth considering.

    199. SilverDarling says:

      Who is advising this woman?

      Her attempts to turn her failures back onto Parliament are glaringly obvious. She is so devoid of emotional intelligence it is scary. ‘On the doorsteps’ people are screaming at how terrible SHE is and has been all along.

      As others have noted this is a blatant attempt to use the public’s frustration against Parliamentarians.

      She is dangerous.

    200. galamcennalath says:

      Well, if there is a third vote on May’s ‘deal’, I hope they have it ASAP because it sounds highly unlikely MPs will vote for it. She seems to have a real knack for saying the wrong things and rubbing people up the wrong way.

      The sooner they vote it down, the sooner they can vote something sensible through!

      Will MPs vote for something so radical it will stop the cliff drop? Perhaps not!

      Corbyn’s plan seems to be – let a terrible Brexit damage the Tories, so even Labour will be less unpopular.

    201. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Cheers for posting that transcript.

      It will surely go down in the history books as one of most concise political suicide notes in recorded history.

    202. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      That’s exactly what I said to the missus, she’s had it now as this will not go down well at all with anyone.

      You need to check this out now, it’s the Peston talk show and is live, May is taking a battering from everybody.

      https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1108499051480338432

    203. Hamish100 says:

      BBC Scotland QT. Why has Claire Baker MSP been given seating preference apparently giving her prominence over others?

      Cleverly done bbc.

    204. yesindyref2 says:

      @thepnr
      244,176 signatures

    205. galamcennalath says:

      Poll for Sky.

      34% blame gov
      26% blame MPs
      7% blame EU

      If the Tory plan is to scapegoat the EU when the shite hits the fan then that doesn’t seem to be the public perception!

    206. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT re. Richard Leopard. What a cardboard cutout. A sham in clown-shoes.

    207. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      A bit slower than 2000/minute then I guess peopel are going to bed lol. Wouldn’t be surprised to see this at 1,000,000 sometime tomorrow.

      Wouldn’t be surprised either if there’s 1,000,000 or more on the anti-Brexit march in London on Saturday. I think it will be more and it will be absolute chaos so unless your attending best give a wide berth.

    208. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Did I fail in e-mail competence or have you thought better of it mate? 🙂

    209. Marcia says:

      What a bizarre statement the PM made. Totally unhinged. The EU heads of governments will be flummoxed too.

    210. Petra says:

      Big T:- “Motion after motion and amendment after amendment has been tabled”….

      I don’t remember them voting on revoking A50. Did I miss something in the melee?

    211. SilverDarling says:

      Emily Thornberry not going on a march as she is ‘campaigning in Scotland’.

      Does anyone know what she is campaigning about?

    212. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Just checked my e-mail, don’t see anything from you.

      If you want to try again it’s ianbhood [at] gmail [dot] com

      😉

    213. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      I haven’t signed it yet. Kind of in two minds, though the SNP support revoking A50 and I do as well, not sure if I should – same reason as others have pointed out. Probably will though if I can find the email addy I used before. 275,053 signatures now.

    214. Hamish100 says:

      When r the new marches going to take place? 40000 marchers with saltires and Eu flags would send a message

    215. CameronB Brodie says:

      The PM is demanding the implementation of policy that has very poor legal foundations, was marginal in it’s result and corrupt in nature, will devastate the ‘national’ economy, has undermined ‘national’ security and prestige, obliterates the Treaty of Union, ignores the votes of Scotland’s nationals and values English legal doctrine over our human rights, strips Scotland’s nationals of our legally protected EU identity and has destroyed public trust in Westminster. Is this a New Right coup to finally end democracy in Britain? Is this Prime-minister a threat to Scotland’s national integrity?

    216. Famous15 says:

      Is it true that Janey Godley is goingto be on BBC QT?

      Makes sense,a lot of sense.

      She is going to explain the backstop to the DUP on the flute!

    217. Yesindyref2

      on 282,000+ now

    218. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      That’s the address I used, have you checked you spam? My address will look meaningless to you but the subject is “Yo!”. Sorry if that was too cryptic.

      Please let it be there, I couldn’t take failing basic e-mail. 🙂

    219. auld highlander says:

      297075 signed

    220. yesindyref2 says:

      Ach they’re all saying it, MacNeil, Wishart, Brown, Cherry, Russell and Sturgeon. Who am I to disagree?

      Signed.

    221. Phil says:

      300,000 and counting!

    222. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      You’re right!

      It was in ‘spam’, so who’s giving who lessons now, eh?

      🙂

    223. auld highlander says:

      This map shows the number of signatures in your area, just hover around over the constituencies with the cursor.
      https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584

    224. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just signed –

      306,472

    225. Dr Jim says:

      One of the first things to happen if this Tory government gets away with this whole sorry deal will be to legislate NOT to have any further referendums because they’re far too divisive (see how that could happen)

      Scotland needs to get a grip of this anti politics rhetoric quickly before somehow all this toxicity of politics applies to Scotland just the same as in England because by a long way it does not, England is a country full to the brim with bad politics and bad policy designed to suit two bad parties that are happy to change partners every few years and carry on regardless

      In Scotland right now we need more political engagement not less, we don’t want the nation so dumbed down they can’t be bothered taking part that’s the ploy of the right wing old politics *keep em stupid but habitual*

      Other countries have referendums all the time and nobody dies of depression for it, Ireland’s had around a dozen of them over the last ten years or so, they’re not all on valium because of it, democracy’s a good thing so more must be better and maybe then we’ll have less people moaning about the *I don’t understand* or the *nobody told me* we can’t allow that to take hold just because certain people use it to excuse themselves from making a decision then moaning about not knowing what they decided upon

      It’s a peoples duty to make some sort of an attempt to find out how to work with their own governments to make their own country work for them not stick their fingers in their ears and wait till it’s over then complain

      Naebdy telt me it’s no fair

      It’s our country and we’ve all got a duty to help

    226. cearc says:

      Hamish100,

      Saturday – Inverness
      Sunday = Glasgow

    227. yesindyref2 says:

      I wonder, if we started a petition to get Larry the Cat take over at Number 10, how many signatures we’d get?

    228. cearc says:

      Until the petition exceeds the number of leave votes May will just say it is a moaning minority.

    229. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. political engagement. Time for a bit of Behavioral Science and stuff?

      How to Increase (and Sustain) Political Engagement

      ….Drawing from this study and a few others from our work, we offer the following four insights, which may be useful for to citizens to employ directly or to organizations looking to increase political participation.

      #1: Choose political actions that fit your identity

      It’s easier to stay engaged in political actions that closely align with your identity. In the postcard study, we tested the relationship between identity and political engagement by asking volunteers to report how closely political participation fit with their sense of self. We found that people who identified with political participation tended to report greater enjoyment from postcard writing, greater social closeness with other volunteers, greater intention to take future political action, and less burnout.

      These findings suggest that it pays to find a political action that closely aligns with how you view yourself. For example, if you are an artist, helping to make signs for an upcoming protest may increase the likelihood that you’ll continue participating in political actions in the future. Or, if you are a technology or design professional, using your skills to develop and improve the digital content of government services may be a particularly sustainable political action for you.

      Our findings are consistent with growing evidence that indicates political mobilization is easier to sustain when people are engaged in behaviors that align with the way they view themselves or would like to view themselves. For instance, a recent get-out-the-vote study found that when people received materials that framed voting as a personal identity (“be a voter”), they voted at a higher rate than people who received materials that framed voting as simply a behavior (“voting”).

      It’s important to remember that there is an abundance of lesser-known ways to make a difference in the political system and in your community, so get creative and take actions that fit naturally with your skills and values. The more closely the actions are aligned with your identity, the easier it will be to sustain those actions.

      http://behavioralscientist.org/how-to-increase-and-sustain-political-engagement/

      What Can Be Done to Encourage Civic Engagement in Youth?
      http://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/6502/650205.html

      Community-Based Rehabilitation: CBR Guidelines.
      Political participation

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK310967/

      We Face, I Tweet: How Different Social Media Influence Political Participation through Collective and Internal Efficacy
      https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article/22/6/320/4675176

    230. manandboy says:

      Yep, I signed.

    231. yesindyref2 says:

      Worldwide trends from tgwitter:
      Worldwide trends

      Theresa May
      Theresa May says it is now time for MPs to decide the fate of Brexit

      Corbyn
      Jeremy Corbyn walks out of Brexit meeting, reports say

      Revoke Article 50
      69.9K Tweets

      #MayMustGo
      46K Tweets

    232. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Tory MP panellist on the Peston show:

      “Well, I tell you what, in private conversations with ministers and backbench colleagues, if they’re confronted with no-deal as the alternative, it’s closer than people think.”

      That might be thought to imply that May might after all get her evil way. But then he immediately continues:

      “And I would implore those colleagues, having seen today the statement and everything else, ask yourself the question ‘do you want a no-deal next week, can you trust the Prime Minuster [isn’t gonna do] a no-deal or should you support a public vote on a Brexit Deal – whichever Brexit Deal?’. And I think that there are enough Conservatives with a conscience this weekend, we may just get there next week.”

      Hmmm, difficult to fully comprehend that part, sound inside knowledge or mere wishful thinking? A PV, if that’s really what he has in mind – and that’s entirely unclear – would likely win an extended delay from the EU27, but I still doubt there are the numbers for it in the HoC. Corbyn really doesn’t want it either. It would just further expose Labour’s own internal fissures. And don’t forget, the SNP won’t support a PV that doesn’t have a “Remain” option.

      90% of those polled say that is a “national” (ie. UK) humiliation. The BritNat media are making our case for us in the best way possible, really getting through to ordinary people, though not maybe in the way up here that they think. We need to exploit this popular understanding, but far smarter than May tried this evening past, and without delay.

      Whoever can capture the current public mood right now will win, and potentially win big.

    233. cynicalHighlander says:

      The Magic Roundabout makes more sense than May, time for bed said Zebedee and I agree.

    234. yesindyref2 says:

      Boing!

    235. Clootie says:

      O/T

      Does anyone have a contact email for someone involved with AUOB?
      I have a very large number of HiVis waistcoats for stewards/security/first aiders/ etc in various sizes.
      These were stocked for the 2012 / 2013 marches.
      No cost and I’m willing to deliver ( West coast if possible I’m in Argyll near Dunoon)

    236. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some more engaging stuff. Well I hope it’s engaging.

      Understanding political engagement
      https://research.bournemouth.ac.uk/project/understanding-political-engagement/

      Political participation and civic engagement: Towards a new typology
      https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/humaff.2012.22.issue-3/s13374-012-0024-1/s13374-012-0024-1.xml

      The Political Significance of Social Media Activity and Social Networks
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10584609.2018.1426662

      Democracy Without Participation: A New Politics for a Disengaged Era
      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11158-017-9382-1

    237. K1 says:

      334,391…moving at quite astonishing rate still

    238. silverbuick says:

      If you are a British citizen you can vote from anywhere. Maybe some of our diaspora are voting.

    239. K1 says:

      I would have thought if ye could vote outwith UK the interactive map would show these other countries, as ye have to provide a UK address to vote in the first place on a parliament petition. No doubt there will be people who have UK addresses who can vote but unlikely the wider diaspora are able to vote.

      https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584

    240. Dr Jim says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Behavioural science, more my area, a while ago but still

    241. crazycat says:

      @ Clootie at 1.00 am

      I’ve sent your message to someone at AUOB; if and when I hear back from her, we can try to connect her to you.

    242. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dr Jim
      It shows, in a good way. 😉

    243. silverbuick says:

      You have to check a box stating you are a British citizen OR a UK resident. Then you provide your name,email and location. by country and vote. No British address is needed.

    244. CameronB Brodie says:

      I was c o n f l a t e d over seeking to change English political culture but this is my last shot as being a British citizen. Indy is on it’s way anyway, IMHO. Now at 345,165 signatures.

    245. K1 says:

      I looked on the petition site and yes BC and UK residents, but they do have to have a way to confirm you are indeed a UK resident. There is only one way to confirm that as far as I can tell and that is to provide your post code, which is in fact ‘roughly’ what street you live in the UK?

      When I signed I had to state I was a British Citizen and then my post code was required. The point I was making was that if indeed ye were a BC out with the UK you actually can’t sign the petition. Because it is not ‘OR’ it’s ‘AND’, clearly stated on the petition site:

      ‘How petitions work

      You create a petition. Only British citizens and UK residents can create or sign a petition.’

      https://petition.parliament.uk/help

      Else anyone from anywhere in the world could just sign a UK parliament petition, which they can’t as they would have to provide a UK address as prove of being a resident in the UK.

    246. K1 says:

      proof not prove

    247. silverbuick says:

      K1, I am a BC living in another country and I voted without a postcode. They sent me an email to confirm and my vote was registered. So there ye go!

    248. silverbuick says:

      How does providing a UK address prove you live there anyway? Who would check? That’s rubbish.

    249. silverbuick says:

      On the petition site besides the box it says “I am a British citizen or UK resident” It clearly says OR !

    250. mr thms says:

      Remember Article 50 has five parts.. Part five is reserved for Scotland.

    251. Fergus Green says:

      Signed

    252. K1 says:

      It asks for a post code on this petition. It isn’t an argument I’m having with you. I’ve literally just copied this from the petition which is the screen it takes you to when you click to sign the petition:

      ‘Sign petition

      Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

      Only British citizens or UK residents have the right to sign

      I am a British citizen or UK resident

      Name

      Email address

      Location

      Postcode

      Email me whenever there’s an update about this petition’

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584/signatures/new

      I think we may both be correct in some way here, yes there is a list of other countries available in the drop down, but the very fact that it does ask for the post codes leaves me to conclude that this is how they check that it is in fact a BC signing the petition.

      Why would a post code be required if it were not some sort of ‘check’, i.e. that the name matches the address of the person claiming either residence or B Citizenship? Else absolutely anyone could sign from anywhere in the world?

      If the criteria is BC ‘and’ UK resident, they need a UK post code as ‘proof’. You ask why they would need this? Because it’s a parliament petition and by it’s nature it has to legitimately be from the polity that the UK parliament represents. I do think they can check the name against the post code.

      And of course the next question has to be how did you manage to sign this petition ‘without’ any post code and claim that it didn’t ask for one?

      Could I gently suggest that you maybe didn’t notice that your post code autofilled?

      And that if it is not a UK post code the name can and will be removed from the petition.

      How could parliament take perhaps a million signature petition from UK residents if it had no means by which to prove that the signatures are legitimate? This would mean any UK parliament petition could be created demanding some attention from the UK parliament and a million people from around the world could just sign it with no means to ensure that it is in fact UK residents and BC’s that signed it?

    253. K1 says:

      Actually it needs the post code of any British Citizen who signs it too. For the exact same reasons as the UK post code is needs, the name will match the post code and that ensures that only BC’s and UK residents sign this petition, so yes it may not have to be a UK post code, but it does require a post code nonetheless.

    254. K1 says:

      Couple of last points: Why I stated that I didn’t think it applied initially to anyone outside the UK, was simply because the UK map led me to think this…wrongly as it turns out, it’s a pity as I would have liked to see the map of all other BC’s that may be signing this, as it is I can only view the UK map. (unless someone can find another way to view this)

      We are both correct on the ‘and’ and ‘or’ part of our wee back and forth here:

      I stated this:

      ‘You create a petition. Only British citizens and UK residents can create or sign a petition.’

      Which I took from the main petition page which I linked to initially:

      https://petition.parliament.uk/help

      You stated this:

      ‘On the petition site besides the box it says “I am a British citizen or UK resident” It clearly says OR !’

      Which you have taken from my second link above, the sign the petition page:

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584/signatures/new

      Which verifies the point your were making:

      ‘Sign petition

      Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

      Only British citizens or UK residents have the right to sign

      I am a British citizen or UK resident

      Name

      Email address

      Location

      Postcode

      Email me whenever there’s an update about this petition’

      That’s just a wee misunderstanding, we’re both correct in our assertions on this point.

      It’s interesting only from the point of view that while you correctly state that it does in fact state ‘or’ on the petition signing page, that that is the same page where you are required to give your post code and you never noticed that.

      End.

    255. K1 says:

      Y’know, ye can see every MP who has signed this petition on the petition site…can’t see every individual name of ordinary punters but the MP’s are clearly marked. Wonder why that is?

    256. K1 says:

      *…starts scouring fur Theresa May’s name on petition…*

      🙂

    257. jockmcx says:

      When i was 14 i saw a uk bare,
      A crap uk that wasn’t there,
      It wasn’t there again today
      And now i know it’s gone away…

      THE END.

    258. K1 says:

      Nah…it’s the constituency MP that is named with the number of signatures for that constituency so far attached to that MP’s name.

    259. Tatu3 says:

      K1. My husband I both have signed the petition. We are British citizens but don’t live in the UK. When you click on the country of residence, the form then accepts a postcode of that country. Then they send you an email to confirm.

    260. K1 says:

      Yes that’s what I’m saying Tatu, you need a post code to sign the petition.

    261. K1 says:

      Australia and Germany have round about 1400 odd and 1600 odd signatures each. They are the 2 countries out with the UK who have the most signatures on the petition. Many BC’s from around the world are indeed signing, but not in huge numbers, the bulk of the petition which is now sitting at over 402,000 signatures are from UK mainland.

    262. K1 says:

      Oops the US has close to 2000 signatures, so that has the highest number of signatures followed by Australia and Germany.

    263. K1 says:

      Spain of course is right behind the US with close to 2000 too.

      (I’ll stop now, but just wanted to give an idea of the BC’s signing from abroad)

    264. K1 says:

      Actually 424,000 signatures.

    265. Nana says:

      Links

      For anyone who may have missed Blackford’s speech

      Ian Blackford speech
      The PM’s deputy @DLidington has described @theresa_may short extension as “downright reckless”
      https://twitter.com/IanBlackfordMP/status/1108359532542070790

      https://landcommission.gov.scot/2019/03/addressing-scotlands-pattern-of-land-ownership-can-unlock-economic-and-community-opportunities/

      The European Hokey Cokey goes on, and on…and on…But for how much longer?
      Well amazingly, article 50 could be stopped and re-triggered.
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/1025430094328105/

      Tommy Sheppard
      Message to Brussels: the British Prime Minister does not speak for the elected parliament of the UK.
      https://twitter.com/TommySheppard/status/1108442892870303745

    266. Nana says:

      https://theorkneynews.scot/2019/03/21/cap-funding-of-300million-on-its-way-to-scottish-farmers/

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/03/20/nothing-has-changed-nothing-has-changed/

      StephenGethins says it’s a mess of Theresa May’s own making – the right thing to do is to put the brakes on Brexit and put it back to the people.
      https://twitter.com/olafdoesstuff/status/1108331697471410176

      Brexit and the ‘Constitutional Requirements’ of Article 50
      What follows below is a short paper written by Mark Freedland QC (Hon.).
      https://goodlawproject.org/brexit-constitutional-requirements-article-50/

    267. Tatu3 says:

      K1 – cool, almost half a million signatures (smiley thing)

    268. Petra says:

      BBC news: Kirsty Blackman, Deputy SNP leader at Westminster, interviewed this morning. Treated with respect and gave a good interview managing to get “the Scots voted to remain in the EU … IndyRef2 an alternative for us” across or words to that effect. She was asked about the feeling amongst politicians of Big T placing the blame at their door / stirring up hatred against them and answered that really well too. She came across as a down to earth, honest, hardworking Scottish politician caught up in some kind of an English Bedlam.

    269. Nana says:

      https://bylinetimes.com/2019/03/20/the-great-brexit-trade-takeover-unilateral-powers-assigned-to-liam-fox/

      https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/brexiteers-may-delay-request

      https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-delay-shreds-theresa-mays-strategy/

      “When the PM came to the dispatch box at PMQs, I confess, I think it was the worst moment I have experienced since I came into the HoC. I have never felt more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative Party.”
      https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1108427392035500033

    270. Nana says:

      James O’Brien’s Immediate Reaction To Theresa May’s “Short Delay” To Brexit
      https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-reaction-theresa-may-brexit-delay/

      The Guardian view on May and Brexit: a prime minister gone rogue
      http://archive.is/6gsOA

      https://welfareweekly.com/dwp-letter-to-gps-deprives-sick-and-disabled-people-of-lifeline-benefits-support/

      Government spends £7m as no-deal ferry bookings start
      http://archive.is/ZH8XK

    271. Nana says:

      France, Spain and Belgium could veto Theresa May’s request for a Brexit extension
      http://archive.is/puEgr

      https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-dup-s-westminster-adventure-is-coming-to-an-end-1.3832718

      Ministers to decide within days whether to initiate full-scale Operation Yellowhammer
      http://archive.is/EPQmu

      https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2019/03/19/nhs-trusts-a-struggling-to-source-expanding-list-of-drugsa-am/

    272. cearc says:

      jockmcx,
      Aye.
      When ‘failed state’ is even mentioned in diplomatic circles the game is up.

    273. K1 says:

      It’s now sitting at 438,000, 14,000 signatures in 15 minutes Tatu 🙂

    274. Nana says:

      In a face-to-face meeting this evening, Ian Blackford MP (pictured) told Theresa May to change course, or resign – warning the Tory leader was taking the UK down the path to disaster.
      http://archive.is/Sl4aa

      Brexit: time to decide
      http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87182

      OH MY GOD!!! Astounding BBC “We can’t find a single person anywhere that supports that Statement by Theresa May
      https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1108483014248534018

      Miko Peled, son of a famous Israeli General, drops 2 minutes of Truth Bombs about Israel. You will NEVER see this broadcast on MSM.
      https://twitter.com/Ian56789/status/1108017477361897475

    275. Nana says:

      Some of the above Brexit links could well be defunct this morning, hard to keep up with it all.

      After the dictator’s message last evening, I’ve seen a lot of tweets similar to this one… grim!

      One MP present said they had never seen such grim scenes in all their time in parliament and that they would never have imagined that a British prime minister could have to face such a meeting of their own MPs.
      https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1108485516058681344

    276. Nana says:

      Chapman
      Recovering @dailymailUK pol ed. Osborne’s right hand man @hmtreasury. Ex-DExEU chief of staff. Citizen of the world

      Chapman says

      I once wrote a front page story about @NicolaSturgeon during the Scottish indyref campaign with the headline “The Most Dangerous Woman in Britain”. It was nonsense at the time, of course, but now, to my surprise, I have to acknowledge that she is probably the most sensible

      https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/1108490104006475777

    277. K1 says:

      She’s more than ‘the most sensible’, she’s a bonefide human being who happens to be excellent at her job. At least he’s acknowledging the utter stupidity of his stupid output back in 2015.

      Whatever happens Nicola Sturgeon has done us all proud, never wavered and has her hand on the till…it’s not over yet…hold hold hold…whites of their eyes time fast approaching.

      Thanks for links Nana, as always 🙂

    278. Nana says:

      https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0321/1037646-brexit-extension/

      UK’s reputation for diplomacy, pragmatism and self-restraint has all but gone, say politicians and officials across EU
      http://archive.is/jBf0R

      https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/03/21/may-takes-us-to-a-new-political-low/

      Thread dissecting May’s message

      Fairly sure that many EU-watchers and the public at large pretty shaken by a speech by May that did not actually tell us that much, or so it seemed. More than anything, it was the tone of blame on MPs. But I’ve gone through it line by line.
      https://twitter.com/Cardwell_PJ/status/1108629378563485697

    279. Nana says:

      Morning K1, I’m just catching up with the comments above and see you’ve been on ‘petition watch’ 🙂

      You are not alone, I’ve seen a lot of tweets from petition watchers this morning.

    280. K1 says:

      Aye Nana, that’s it over the 500,000 signatures now, it’s rising very rapidly, like everyone woke up just after 7 and started signing it 🙂

    281. K1 says:

      France signatures are highest at the momentous with UK at 4352.

    282. K1 says:

      momentous = out with

    283. Breeks says:

      Who does that? Assembles the world’s media for a statement in the eye of a political hurricane of her own making, keeps everybody waiting, then delivers a shovel load of anodyne “wusnae me” horseshitting cowardice.

    284. K1 says:

      Better way of doing it, UK signatures are at 494,844 and present count on main petition page is 519,388, so approx 25,000 external UK votes so far from the diaspora. 🙂

    285. Nana says:

      .@KeithBrownSNP says the SNP want to remain in the EU by revoking Article 50.
      video
      https://twitter.com/bbcdebatenight/status/1108501837693546498

      Senior EU source tells me that EU-27 will reject June 30 extension date and insist on May 22 instead, to avoid clash with the European Parliament elections. So the EU-27 will be setting new Brexit day rather than Britain and will demand a vote in the house of commons to boot!
      https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1108632051572461568

    286. K1 says:

      you know what I meant…signatures not votes 🙁

    287. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Quite the night Nana and yes, it is moving fairly rapidly now. Onyhoo… Kettle on and settle in for some reading.

    288. Nana says:

      Morning Macart, it’s exhausting and scary Macart.

      Best stick a fork in her, she’s well overdone

      .?@JGForsyth? says UK now constitutionally bankrupt as it was in a fiscal/financial sense in 1976. ?He sees @theresa_may? going to Brussels for political bailout just as Healey went cap in hand to IMF. What is striking is how her colleagues agree – as attached.
      https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1108642820989075457

    289. Breeks says:

      Pete Wishart on Twitter..

      “More and more people coming round to revoking Article 50. It is now the only way and it must be put to the House as a real option. The amendment will be resubmitted next week. It’s time has come”.

      Why not load both barrels Pete? A wee bit insurance for Scotland… if the UK parliament won’t revoke Article 50, Scotland will, citing our Constitutional Sovereignty and the ECJ test case which declared revocation of Article 50 to be a sovereign prerogative.

    290. TheItalianJob says:

      @Nana

      Some great links as usual. Just finished getting through most of them.

      Highlights for me were Ian Blackford’s PMQ response to TM and Tommy Sheppard’s speech later on.

      Stirring stuff from our elected MP’s standing up to the omnishambles of the Westminster Parliament.

    291. Nana says:

      The moment a PM absolutely desperate for parliamentary support decided to have a *scripted* hissy fit blaming parliamentarians for her own failures was the moment I realised I’d wasted over two years trying to work out what her plan was. She never had one. She is an empty vessel.
      https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1108639281961205760

      From the above thread

      This is really dangerous vstuff. No joke. She has publicly set herself against all MPs(regardless of their Brexit stance) and appealed against them to the public. This is full on Germany 1930s

      @davidallengreen @JolyonMaugham @StevePeers is there any mechanism other than inparty mutiny or a G.E for removing the PM for dereliction of duty or insanity? Yesterday had to be her “wibble” moment…
      https://twitter.com/SEMnutter/status/1108630082346799104

    292. Nana says:

      Morning TheItalianJob, I thought Tommy’s speech was excellent. He must have a terrific memory, I never see him using notes.

    293. Liam says:

      Just came across this on Mumsnet on a Brexit thread:

      prettybird Thu 21-Mar-19 08:33:07

      I’ve just see[n] a strong anti-independence former work colleague say on a friend’s FB thread which was warning that in 7 working days the legal position is that we fall out of the EU, that on Working Day 8 Scotland should go for Indyref2 as it then becomes the less risky option. shock

      He’s a former FD and has always taken a very financial and conservative (small “c” wink) approach to Scottish Independence and hadn’t thought Scotland was ready last time around.

    294. Nana says:

      LIVE: German Chancellor Merkel speaks ahead of EU summit on Brexit delay

      https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1108641601125912576

    295. Frank Gillougley says:

      Well, well. The Dunning-Kruger Effect. – This is what has ailed that psychotic woman all this time. Now that is, as they say, a pure belter! Cameron Brodie would no doubt confirm…

      The following is lino to a T.-

      ‘ …the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, “the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.’

      I have just experienced this phenomena first-hand while working for the last 8 weeks with a right eejit of a project manager, who as a last resort, I had no further option, but to call him a ‘complete diddy’ (!) right to his face! as he was hopelessly out of his depth. Such are the ‘management’… not to mention the weel kent, Peter Principle.

      I had always seen her as no more capable than running a small rural post office.

    296. Fireproofjim says:

      Thanks Nana. Great links as usual.
      Tommy Shepherd particularly good. My choice to lead the Yes campaign.

    297. TheItalianJob says:

      @Nana

      More links I see. This one from the Guardian on European parliamentarians views on Brexit sticks out.

      In Germany, Lambsdorff said Europe had long smiled on harmless British eccentricities, but had now discovered another kind, saying: “Eton games and Oxbridge rituals that appear to have taken over the House of Commons – and have very little to do with mature political decision-making.”

    298. Ken500 says:

      The Tory /unionists were warned about what would happen. A complete and utter shambles. What a mess.

    299. yesindyref2 says:

      “Petitions is down for maintenance”

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

      LOL, we’ve broken the UK Parliament!

    300. Luigi says:

      Thanks for the links, Nana.

      Things are unravelling so fast now, there is barely time to digest the popcorn.

      The 90 minutes is up, it’s EU 9 UK 0, the substituted ministers are howling, and Captain May is pleading desperately for extra time. 🙂

    301. Nana says:

      Morning Fireproofjim, I like Tommy,s calm and respectful style. He doesn’t seem to get rattled so I think he would be a good candidate to leading the yes campaign.

      @TheItalianJob, I’m finished linking now (well maybe) 🙂

      BONNIE GREER: Why I fear US will pick bones of NHS
      http://archive.is/bXVxO

    302. Nana says:

      Morning Luigi, my head’s spinning faster than TM’s spin docs 🙂

    303. robertknight says:

      Has the petitions website crashed under the strain? All I’m getting is a “gateway” error. 🙁

    304. Petra says:

      Do we have anything like the US equivalent of Amendment 25 Section 4 of their Constitution, here in the UK (other than Independence), to get rid of the lunatic, ASAP?

      http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/9/14488980/25th-amendment-trump-pence

    305. Capella says:

      To return to the topic – I would like to nominate The Woodentops as an example of sexist children’s programming. Features the nuclear family but also “Mrs Scrubbit”, duster in hand, who comes to help Mummy Woodentop.

      How many children of a certain vintage have been brainwashed by this scurrilous propaganda.
      This diversion of BREXIT, breaking up unions etc, takes focus away from important matters such as identity politics.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QewiLgTJYyQ

    306. yesindyref2 says:

      Back but hanging at 619,498 signatures

      Curse that UK Government, curse that Red Baron.

      I think it’s been sabotaged to stop it going over the million.

      *conspiracy theory*

    307. Petra says:

      @ Capella at 9:24am ……. “I would like to nominate”….

      What about Captain Pugwash? I reckon that should be on the list, lol.

      http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/captain-pugwash-double-meanings/

    308. Nana says:

      re the petition

      Just announced on sky news via that system has crashed due to volume of traffic!

    309. yesindyref2 says:

      At last, some media outlet or website has the story:

      “https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/revoke-article-50-petition-1-5950314”

      Revoke Article 50 petition CRASHES as more than 500,000 sign in just 12 hour

      When will The National (or Herald) cary the story?

    310. Conan the Librarian says:

      I still can’t get through to the Brexit petition, but strangely enough this one is still up…

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235185

    311. frogesque says:

      We need a section. Not an S30 or an A50 but an NHS Section for May.

      Sh has completely lost it.

    312. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 20 March, 2019 at 10:36 pm:

      ” … Already dead but doesn’t realise it.
      Yet.”

      That isn’t the real problem, Robert. The real problem is that most of the Westminster parliament doesn’t realise she is dead – yet. What is more they never will because they are also dead and don’t know it – YET.

      Scotland will never forgive them for what they are doing and will end the union. Northern Ireland will also ditch them and Wales may also follow.

      Westminster will then become what it has pretended to by since 1707 and a brand spanking new Parliament of the country of England will open in Westminster and the World at large will not even notice it is there.

    313. auld highlander says:

      Had last nights full moon anything to do with the live broadcast shortly before nine.

    314. yesindyref2 says:

      @Nana
      Thanks, don’t know where those quote marks came from!

      Behave yourself keyboard, smack smack.

    315. David P says:

      Links absolutely brilliant. As ever. Half of the stories and three quarters of the content of our ward newsletters are informed by your links, nana.

      Thanks for all your hard work. David P

    316. Ottomanboi says:

      The British nationalist hawks are certainly targeting May, so do be careful what you wish for, as something possibly worse is lurking in the wings and we are really no closer to independence than we were at the start of this tragicomedy.
      Radio 4 during prog on Gerald Manley Hopkins Glasgow is twice referred to as a ‘northern industrial city’, like Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool. North Britain, so alive so well…..

    317. Dr Jim says:

      The interview goes like this:

      Scotland voted to remain overwhelmingly…..Yes but the *British* people voted leave
      The Northern Irish people voted to remain…..Yes but the *British people voted leave

      Now repeat that over and over again then ask yourself who are these *British* people that cannot be identified by country and then you have the answer, nobody wants to say *English* people because the accusations of anti English would come flying at you and that’s the brainwashing effect of convincing the population of the British Isles that English people are *British* but the rest of us are not

      Unless we agree with the English people, then we’re allowed to be *British*

      We Scots Welsh and Irish people are only accepted as *British* when we do what we’re told, a reason for Independence then? I think so ….Wakey Wakey!

    318. Capella says:

      @ Petra – ha ha – children’s programming is a minefield right enough. I believed the Captain Pugwash “smear” too!

    319. Meindevon says:

      I know a lot of you are signing the petition, but I’m not sure. As someone who lives in England I know it would be beneficial down here if Brexit is stopped but surely a disastrous exit is more beneficial to the independence movement and getting Independence.

      Can anyone explain (other than giving Westminster a bloody nose) why I should sign it? I will if it helps Scotland but not otherwise.

      Cheers.

    320. Dr Jim says:

      If the UK doesn’t vote for Mrs May’s deal then gets itself a new PM the EU will offer a long extention following a revocation of Brexit because the EU doesn’t want to allow no deal to happen

      The Finnish PM said this morning

    321. Breeks says:

      NicolaSturgeon
      “Of course, the logic of Theresa May’s assertion that Parliament’s indecision is frustrating the will of the people is to put the issue back to the people and let them decide. If she is confident that the people back her, what’s stopping her?”

      Em….

    322. Bobp says:

      Dr jim 9.53am. I love it. Tell it like it is dr jim.

    323. Phil says:

      @meindevon
      You sign according to your desires and needs, not mine, not’ours’. Gaming WM or gaming independence probably is way out of our league.

    324. galamcennalath says:

      Ian Dunt …

      https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/03/21/black-thursday-britain-humiliated-on-global-stage-as-it-begs

      “Remainers want to blame everything on Brexit as a concept. Leavers want to blame how it was pursued. But the reality is that both ends and means have been terrible.”

      … fair enough summary of the dreadful mess.

      No mention though of what I believe is a major element in what has gone wrong – before EURef it was obvious that if England wanted a hard Exit then the UK could not continue. Nicola pointed this out and suggested the UK countries should each have a veto. Just before the vote May herself said a Leave win could mean NI getting its own EU deal.

      The existential threat to the UK of EURef was implicit, it should have been explicitly spelt out.

      IMO much of what we have seen since the Leave win has been about keeping the UK intact. What England wants has been compromised and corrupted in order to retain the UK.

      This certainly isn’t the official narrative, but I believe it’s definitely part of the reality.

    325. Macart says:

      Most folk think that democracy is simply about numbers. That so long as you win, it doesn’t matter HOW you win. Your opponents should respect the result regardless because…reasons and you have a bigger number. (Indyref 1 and EU ref being classic examples.)

      Doesn’t matter that you’ve massaged the facts. Doesn’t matter that you’ve smeared, undermined or outright fibbed. It doesn’t matter that you NEVER intended to honour your end of a ballot choice. The win was the main thing.That’s pretty much a description of how you use democracy against itself.

      Except it really, really, does matter HOW you win, because sooner or later Karma will have its say. ‘That’s politics’, ‘You had a choice’ or ‘this is how it’s always been done’, isn’t a get out of jail free card.

      Might be worth a thought for the policy gonks out there.

    326. Liz g says:

      Petra @ I think history will show Captain Pugwash was a deeply misunderstood wee man,only Tom the cabin boy got it.
      IMHO
      It’s the Clangers who are controlling everything behind the scenes…the Soup Dragon wis right all along,they needed taking out!

    327. Dr Jim says:

      @Bobp 10:11am

      The more you think about it the more you realise that every time someone like the PM says the *British* people voted for Brexit but you’re not *British* if you didn’t, because only *British* people count, kinda makes you think that perhaps non *British* people aren’t wanted in *Britain* anyway

      So 311 years of trying to force people to be *British* hasn’t worked well, so instead of insulting all us non *British* people’s intelligence by telling us we’re not good enough what’s the problem with allowing us not to be *British* and just be Scottish Irish and Welsh

      I mean you wouldn’t try to make a black man white, it doesn’t work and it would be racist, or is racism in *Britain* just allowed and confined to white people who don’t agree with the *British*

    328. Abulhaq says:

      @Meindevon
      A no deal crash out looks likely as Merkel this morning said you British already have a deal, you must now decide to accept it. This English Civil War #2 offers little chance of that.
      EU states have been preparing for a possible no deal exit for at least 18months. They understand the British mind. The British, however, do not know their own mind. Wie schade! Qué lástima! Quel bordel!
      I agree that a crash out might serve the Scottish case better, we voted significantly to stay, than the alternative. Saving the British state from the errors of its leaders is not our raison d’être.
      I believe we would have more ‘leverage’ with the electorate in such a scenario.
      The FM’s attempts at building bridges with Unionist remainers has failed. The emerging Realpolitik of these events needs to be internalised and a new strategy presented.
      The forthcoming party conference might be an appropriate occasion for such.

    329. Galamcennalath

      I agree with your analysis.
      It seems to me that it went pear-shaped from the point where T May, feart of a second indy ref, called the snap GE and lost her majority. No, it’s not Nicola’s fault for stating her intention to call a second indy ref, but how different things would have been if T May had said – OK here’s your Section 30, on you go. If we had held the vote and lost, that would have been it for years. As it is, she has consolidated the will for Independence by ignoring Scotland.

      She lost her majority, and probably should have resigned then and there but from the moment she did the deal with the DUP the fate of Brexit was lined up. Her entire course since then has been caused by basing her decisions on fear.

      Fear that the UK would split up, fear of the ERG, fear that the Conservative Party might split, fear of a second Indy ref, fear of putting it to the people in a second EU ref, fear that would lead to calls for a second Indy ref, fear of losing control – which of course she has totally.
      Every decision she has made has weakened her because she has NOT ONCE, made the right call and taken the risk of facing down the objectors until she has been too weakened and now is a laughing stock.

      It is remarkable that in her stubbornness, she has managed to alienate both sides of the argument.
      Remember the night her deal was first defeated , both sets of protestors outside Parliament cheered. Quite a unique talent to unite your enemies against you!

      I think she has blown it totally ( if that is not an understatement) and the worst aspect of all this now is the number of people I’m hearing who are saying, let’s just get on with it, leave with No Deal and we’ll just have to graft for a decade to get back to where we are now.

      UNBELIEVABLE.

    330. hackalumpoff says:

      @Liz G
      Re the Soup Dragon
      I have lived with the Soup Dragon for 40 years and she has been known to drop clanger or two.

    331. Meindevon,

      Not trying to change your mind but I have signed it. These petitions are pretty useless as all you asking parliament to do is to debate the motion. We do not ask them to vote on the outcome but it helps with frustration levels to feel that you are expressing your will a bit.
      Apparently, the website has crashed. ( really?)

      I do not expect it to happen (revocation) but even if it did, I think Nicola would still push for Indy because of the way Scotland has been treated recently.

      I know it doesn’t really make logical sense but then, nothing logical is happening just now.

    332. frogesque says:

      We need a section. Not an S30 or an A50 but an NHS Section for May.

      She has completely lost it.

    333. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ottomanboi says: 21 March, 2019 at 9:52 am:

      ” … something possibly worse is lurking in the wings and we are really no closer to independence than we were at the start of this tragicomedy.

      But thenYOU would say that – wouldn’t you?

    334. jfngw says:

      What a choice, rescind A50 and it probably delays any independence vote. Leave with no deal we probably get independence but have a land border with an unstable neighbour. The other choice currently is May’s deal, we would probably have an indy vote and a slightly less unstable neighbour, but the outcome of that vote is more difficult to predict.

      I genuinely hope the SNP have something up their sleeve that can resolve this, because non of the outcomes look pretty to me, well apart from the independence bit.

    335. The Dog Philosopher says:

      What I want to know is, why, amid all of this Brexit omnishambolikclusterfracking, who is taking care of the ‘day job’?

      Shouldn’t the prudently pedantic ‘Scottish’ Tories be demanding (fingerpoint, fingerpoint) that the Mothership stop dicking around with distracting constitutional matters and get back to the all important job of making the trains run on time?

      After all, it’s what occupational fascists do best!

    336. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says:21 March, 2019 at 9:53 am:

      <… We Scots Welsh and Irish people are only accepted as *British* when we do what we’re told, a reason for Independence then? I think so ….Wakey Wakey!"

      Got it in one, Dr. Jim. Westminster has been changing the meanings of the English language for many centuries.

      However, the more recent changes really began in 1707. hat was when, “United Kingdom”, changed to mean, “England”, and “England”, began to mean “Britain”, “Britain”, became, “The Country”, and it was around that time when The Kingdom of Scotland”, was, “Extinguished”.

      Trouble for Westminster today is that none of that really happened and, like Ireland found out years ago, it was only a load of Westminster lies and The Republic told Westminster, “To go and f … (Cough! Cough!), … Fly a kite”.

      It has taken a while but I thing the rest of The United Kingdom is now getting ready to follow the Republic of Ireland’s lead in telling Westminster what to do.

      Now whether that will be by the Republic’s way or by the more legal method of court action or a simple invocation of the People of Scotland’s legal status as stated in the Treaty of Union remains to be seen but the general tone of our elected representatives has most certainly changed of recent weeks. Every one of them has categorically stated, “Westminster will not drag Scotland out of the EU against the legally sovereign people of Scotland’s wishes”.

      Now carefully read and analyse what that statement is actually saying – it says, “will not drag Scotland out”, that means Scotland will remain in, it doesn’t say, “after Westminster drags Scotland out”, it says, “Will not drag Scotland out”, so Scotland must be remaining in.

      What do they know that we do not?

      Hang on! Isn’t that what I’ve been saying here on Wings for years?

      All the EU needs do to crush Westminster’s ambitions is to point out that the United Kingdom is legally a union of two equally sovereign kingdoms, (It says so in the name), and one equally sovereign partner kingdom voted to remain while the other voted to leave. Thus the remaining partner Kingdom will remain as the legacy member state and the Kingdom of England can leave with the very best wishes of the EU member states, (that includes Scotland).

    337. CameronB Brodie says:

      Frank Gillougley
      I may have over-sold my abilities. 😉

    338. Breeks says:

      8 days to Brexit and FMQ’s concerns itself with drug rehabilitation and 20 fewer cleaners in a hospital.

      And nobody even asks whether it has anything to do EU staff losing their faith in UK Citizenship.

      I fkn despair.

    339. call me dave says:

      @Breeks

      Says it all eh!

      I heard the first part of it on BBC’s guide to FMQs on the car radio and I thought FGS! 🙁

    340. Ottomanboi says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Indeed I would Sir! The Spirit of the Times is out of control…..with May thrown out, the unionist grand guignol entertainment will simply continue,

    341. Nana says:

      @David P

      That is really good to know 🙂

      Spotted this earlier

      https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1108698296556666881

    342. Nana says:

      Open Europe twitter have been tweeting comments from EU leaders &
      officials as they have been arriving at summit

      see here

      https://twitter.com/OpenEurope

    343. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      As far as I understand things Robert, England’s transformation into Britain really took off with the ‘evolution’ of One Nation Conservatism, which was the ideological option of ‘centrist’ Tories aiming to maintain imperial might in the face of decline fortune and stiffening international competition. The British union should not be confused with other types of “love” based unions. The union has always been about imperial power.

    344. Robert Peffers says:

      @Abulhaq says: 21 March, 2019 at 10:56 am:

      ” … Saving the British state from the errors of its leaders is not our raison d’être.”

      What, “British state” would that be, Abulhaq?

      There is no such state. Britain has several states. Including the Republic of Ireland, and three, independent of Westminster rule, Crown Protectorates.

      In case you wondered Westminster really is not the crown because Westminster is the United Kingdom parliament and Westminster thus represents both of the United Kingdom’s partner kingdoms and in Scotland the crown is not sovereign.

      However, that is by the by. The real point is that an independent Scotland has no wish to have an enemy kingdom/country on it’s only land border. So assuming that Westminster is “The British/English”, parliament is not a good way to go and it really only reinforces the unionist case.

      Hence the efforts made by the Scottish Government and the SNP to do everything in their , (limited), power to not do anything to harm the normally good people of England. Let no one say that Nicola and the SNP have done other than attempt to take a reasonable attitude in that respect.

      In any event, as I’ve said so many times about the Westminster Governments, (Blue, Red and rainbow), “give them enough rope and they will hang themselves”.

      I believe, at this present moment, the Westminster government is standing on the gallows, with a rope they have wound for themselves, already round their necks and their own hand upon the leaver to open the gallows trapdoor.

      It now has all the component parts in place and is probably now too late to prevent them hanging themselves. I really think the United Kingdom government now have no way out.

      Even if they now are forced to call off the UKBRExit the repercussions will still see them out of office and I really cannot see the current opposition any more fit for office than the current government.

      Hopefully, whatever the SNP have up their sleeves will see the mess in Westminster being none of our business and we can look across the border into a foreign land and not be involved.

      And I quote almost every SNP MP, MSP and MEP, “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against her will”.

    345. Boudicca says:

      FMQs, yes the first part was dull, Carlaw obviously not wanting to stir up a storm and get a pasting, but Patrick Harvie asked two questions about when will having Indy. Stirring speech from Nicola, worth listening to.

      And I picked up this morning on GMS Kirsty Blackman being pressed hard to state that Nicola would be asking for an S30 and she refused to say, the interview said she would need it, and she said ‘not necessarily’. Hmmmmmmm.

    346. yesindyref2 says:

      @meindevon
      What Phil says, even thinking of gaming whatever blew my head so I did what I thought was right (signed) as in right in itself, which is all any of us can do really. Brexit is a bad thing and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

    347. silverbuick says:

      K1, autofill didn’t put in a postcode, the diaspora can vote and it does say “OR”. How many more things did you get wrong?Now unless you want to mess up some more END OF!

    348. yesindyref2 says:

      @Boudicca
      It’s all happening!

    349. K1 says:

      You know what silverbuick…ah didn’t get anything wrong whatsoever. Ive explained exactly what is the actual facts in relation to signing the petition. Even Tatu3 above whois also a British citizen not cutrently living in the UK acknowledged that both them and partner filled in post code.

    350. K1 says:

      Why don’t you read what I wrote instead of persisting with this utter futile nonsense? You have to put your postcode in, it’s on the sign in form, I posted the link and copied and pasted from that link. As for the ‘or’ and ‘and’ aspect, again I explained that we are both correct depending upon what ‘page’ of the petition site one is on.

    351. K1 says:

      And as for your ‘jumped up’ attitude wrt this matter, ah rather think thst reveals more about your inability to comprehend than anything on the subject matter we were discussing. Nuthin’ ah can do about that.

      Kindly refrain from addressing me on this forum again. And…have a good day. 😉

    352. silverbuick says:

      I made a simple comment about the diaspora signing the petition and you were off to the races. Didn’t want them having a say, eh? You are so full of yourself and so transparent.

    353. K1 says:

      What are you on about, pure utter projection on your part?

      I merely questioned wether the diaspora could and I also addressed this in terms of ‘why I thought it might not’ because of the ‘map’ only showing UK areas? Why don’t you read what I actually wrote silverbuick?

      I then stated that I was wrong?

      You are coming across as a really stupid idiot silverbuick….serioulsy get a grip man.

    354. K1 says:

      It is you who is categorically refusing to acknowledge that you need a post code to sign the petition, it’s more interesting why you are deflecting away from this fact…and you still haven’t explained why you are doing so?

      So…let me spell it out for your…you. need. a. post. code. to. sign. this. petition.

      Clear?

    355. silverbuick says:

      When I signed the petition I did so without providing a postcode and to my surprise it worked. Why are you calling me names? Does that make you feel superior in some way? Do grow up or perhaps go away. Whatever you decide is fine, man.

    356. silverbuick says:

      Oh there you are! I knew you’d be back.

    357. K1 says:

      I’m not calling you names silverbuick, I stated the ‘you are coming across’ as a really stupid idiot, seriously can you not comprehend sentence structures?

      You could not have signed without a post code,I literally posted the sign in page up thread and copied and pasted the entire page in my comment too silverbuick, surely even you can see that it has a box with ‘post code’ that you have to enter in your post code to?

      I can’t understand that you can’t seem to understand that that was the ‘point’ I was raising, I went to great lengths to be very clear what I was stating, to the point of saying that I had misunderstood about the BC and UK residents. And that is why I can’t understand ‘your’ issue with what I was driving at, which is that as it is a ‘parliament’ petition they have to cross reference a name with a post code for the signatures to be ‘valid’ for the criteria of British Citizen and UK resident? Otherwise they can’t ‘verify’ that anyone is a UK resident or a British Citizen?

      I’m not ‘getting at you’ and yet you have continually taken this tack with what I am explaining which leads me to conclude you haven’t actually clicked on the links that I posted and understood what I was on about.

      At no point was this any kind of weird thing I was stating? I don’t know how I could be any more clearer on this and what is wrong with querying another’s comment? Is that not what curiosity is? To question assertions? And find a means of understanding something better between oneself and another?

      I’m not just ‘making it up’ about the post code silverbuick and that is why I ‘suggested’ that perhaps it had autofilled on your form? I even used the word ‘gently’ in suggesting this?

      Because it can plainly be seen on the form itself that this ‘field’ is a required field on the bloody form, not because ‘I’ say, but because it is!

      Look:

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584/signatures/new

      ‘Petitions

      UK Government and Parliament

      Sign petition

      Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

      Only British citizens or UK residents have the right to sign

      I am a British citizen or UK resident

      Name

      Email address

      Location

      Postcode*

      Email me whenever there’s an update about this petition’

      You can’t keep arguing with me as if it’s me that is in error here, I hear you loud and clear that you ‘think’ you didn’t need to use or hadn’t used a post code, but the form itself contradicts ‘your’ statement.

      That is all I have been stating here and yet you have made it into some other weird thing that ‘you’ think I’m up to?

      Come on? You have made a mistake and you are in my face stating that I am ‘wrong’, which I’m not and I had already covered the point wrt the ‘and’ and ‘or’ and the map not showing wider world signatures etc. But you are incapable of addressing the salient part of the point ‘I’ am making about the post code sliverbuick?

      You are factually incorrect in your assertion that you didn’t need a post code, the form completely contradicts this, not me?

      You cannot and could not have signed the petition without a post code, there is nothing controversial in this statement.

      The parliament petitions would not have set their criteria for ‘signing’ if there is no means to verity that in fact it is a British citizen or/and a UK resident that is in fact signing any given petition. I don’t know how to make this more simple for you to understand silverbuick.

      Can we just end this back and forth now, I see that you are unable or unwilling to see ‘your’ error but there is no point in us continuing to have a conversation when one of us…you…won’t concede the point that I am making out of some sort of paranoiac take inside your own head about why I am stating what I am. Ergo my last comment, it’s tiring to repeat the same obvious thing over and over and the other guy is just cognitively unable to read what I’m stating and making it into something it isn’t.

      *my bold

    358. K1 says:

      ‘…and to my surprise it worked.’

      Are you saying you ‘deliberately’ left out the post code information?

      How do you know it worked then?

      If you think the auto email is a sign that it worked then you don’t understand ‘how’ it works. Because your ‘signature’ won’t be added to the petition unless the ‘cross reference’ which is built into the petition to ‘ensure’ that the person who signed it is a UK resident and British citizen, will null and void it.

      They don’t ‘count’ those who don’t provide a ‘post code’, it’s not an email address that ‘confirms’ your citizenship or residency in the UK, it’s a post code.

    359. K1 says:

      Duplication will be be filtered out too, think about it they can’t have the same person signing 5000 times wi the same post code?

    360. silverbuick says:

      Each postcode covers an average of 15 properties or anywhere between 1-100 depending on where it is located. Every BC does not have their own postcode.

    361. K1 says:

      Yes but you and I know silverbuick that names and post codes have to be matched for verification of residency and citizenship else there is not point in having those criteria on the petition is there?

      Did you deliberately leave out your post code?

    362. K1 says:

      Actually a British Citizen living in another location out with the UK does have a zip or post code silverbuick, cause they could not verify that the person was a British citizen without one. As I stated earlier Tatu3 confirmed this up thread as a BC not living in the UK they had to provide the post code/zip code of their address?

    363. K1 says:

      You can see though yes, that a signature won’t count without a post code? That the email isn’t a verification of your citizenship or residence, and that the reason they want it can only be for the purpose of verify the ‘criteria’ of BC and UK residency?

      The internal coding of the petition will filter out anyone who doesn’t ‘fit’ that criteria of either BC and/or UK residency? Post code is the ‘only’ means to do this otherwise why ask for it on the petition itself?

    364. silverbuick says:

      My signature was accepted on the petition.I know that upsets you but oh well.This is boring saying the same thing over and over and I want to check if the European Council press conference ever started.

    365. K1 says:

      It hasn’t started yet and I’m waiting myself. It’s not boring silverbuick, it’s interesting and enlightening to find and clarify information and ensure that we are dealing in facts when we speak to other people.

      Your signature won’t be accepted without a legitimate post/zip code, I’m actually really saying if you want your signature to count then resign it with your post/zip code, cause it does count, it doesn’t upset me either, I like clear factual information and I like to make sure that I’m not uninformed and that others aren’t either when it comes to even simple things like this.

      So stop projecting what you feel on to me. I feel fine about our conversation, it’s important for others to understand how a parliamentary petition works in reality. If you want your signature to count then put your post/zip code into the field on the sign in. Then and only then will your signature count.

      No one can then influence a petition from outside the UK who is not a BC, that is why they need the post code. Electoral registers will verify the status of the person signing the petition, otherwise anyone across the planet could sign nearly 2 million signature petition on any issue and UK parliament would have no means of knowing ‘who’ any of that 2 million are.

      Simple…eh. 🙂

    366. silverbuick says:

      My signature was accepted and I was given my number. That’s all I need. If you wanted a civil conversation you wouldn’t have said I come across as an idiot or words to that effect.

    367. K1 says:

      Oh pulhease, I said that after your ridiculous statement:

      ‘K1, autofill didn’t put in a postcode, the diaspora can vote and it does say “OR”. How many more things did you get wrong?Now unless you want to mess up some more END OF!’

      I had already explained pretty much the entire thing to you in the early hours of this morning and ‘that’ was your response all those hours later and now you claim that I was the one who didn’t wish to have a civil conversation. You do realise everyone can follow and see how this whole conversation played out on here?

      You hadn’t had a civil word toward me from the start, having failed to understand the nuance of the points that I was making, so spare us the victim stance silverbuick.

      It’s very clear who has the ‘ratty’ wee chip on the shoulder attitude from the start and you have comprehensively failed to answer the simple question of whether you deliberately avoided inputing your post code into the petition and more saliently ‘why’ you didn’t just do that in the first place instead resorting to paranoid projections to deflect from whatever it is you are up to by not being honest about your location as BC abroad? And then claiming that not everyone has a post code?

      Yes they do, unless you live in a bin shelter. So there was no reason not to put your post or zip code in at all, but you chose not to? That’s the salient piece of information and honesty that was missing from the start as you asserted, falsely that ‘anyone’ can sign it without a post code, which is utterly untrue and always was, because you failed to ‘admit’ that you deliberately didn’t put your post code in.

      Yes you can sign it, but it won’t count as the post code is the means by which the verification of your status as a UK resident and BC is resolved.

      Otherwise anyone can sign it without being a BC or a UK resident.

      Which defeats the point of any UK parliamentary petition.

      You tell yourself what you ‘need’ to silverbuick, you are the one who didn’t put your post code in and I’m telling you staring it voids your signature, irrespective of whether you got a wee email wi a number in it, that is exactly the number they will use to void the bloody signature as it won’t match any post code. As you haven’t put one in.

      Jesus wept man…try thinking before you keep doubling down on how ridiculous you come across with this matter.

    368. silverbuick says:

      In what way was I not honest about being a BC who lives abroad?

    369. K1 says:

      Where you were not honest is that from the start you insisted that people didn’t have to ‘have’ a post code to sign the petition, this isn’t true and you doubled down on that as our conversation progressed. You didn’t reveal and still haven’t that you ‘deliberately’ didn’t put your post code in and when I explained to your over and over again that this is how verification worked you have not conceded the ‘fact’ of this instead acted as if you are being ‘got at’.

      So to that extent you have deflected from what you yourself have done and think (still) that the email somehow ‘confirms’ that your vote counts. Yes you can still ‘sign’ the petition but if you had been honest from the start and said ‘I deliberately didn’t put my post code in (for whatever reason) and I ‘believe’ my signature got onto the petition’ you can see that our conversation may well have gone differently? Because of course I would have still pointed out that the post code is a verifying criteria which ‘establishes’ BC and/or UK residence? And that would have been that.

      You have deliberately left out the post code field without explaining why you did that, and even said that ‘not everyone has a post code’ which is nonsense, and if it is the case that you live in a tent then your signature won’t count cause it can’t be verified that you are a BC regardless of where you live outside the UK.

      I never at any point said you were not a BC living abroad, once again you deflect and ‘infer’ from comments that were never stated by me.

      Shall we just leave it at that now?

    370. silverbuick says:

      Once again you twist words and deny things you have said. You are rude,deceitful

    371. silverbuick says:

      You are rude, arrogant. deceitful and longwinded. Good riddance tae bad rubbish.

    372. K1 says:

      Oh dearie me. I see I was correct about your cognitive inability to comprehend what is being said.

      I’ll not comment to you again on this matter, so sorry for your incapacity to understand the context and meaning of sentences and paragraphs. Good luck to you.

    373. silverbuick says:

      Can’t stop though, can you?

    374. K1 says:

      I did thought…didn’t I?

      Had to get the last word did ye aye.

    375. silverbuick says:

      Knew you would be back. If you had stopped you wouldn’t have posted again on this thread.

    376. yesindyref2 says:

      Jesus and Satan were having an argument about who managed to get the most out of their computer. This had been going on for days and God was tired of hearing all the bickering. God said, “cool it. I’m going to set up a test that will run for two hours, after which I will judge who has done the better job.”

      So they sat at their keyboards and typed away.

      They moused away.

      They did spreadsheets.

      They wrote reports.

      They sent faxes.

      They sent out email.

      They sent out email with attachments.

      They downloaded.

      They did some genealogy report.

      They made cards.

      They did every know job.

      But just a few minutes before the two hours were up, lightening flashed across the sky. The thunder rolled and the rains came down hard. And, of course, the electricity went off.

      After a bit the rain stopped and the electricity came back on. Satan screamed, “I lost it all when the power went off. What am I going to do?”

      He asked Jesus if he had lost his work, too.

      Jesus just sat and smiled and calmly turned his computer back on. The screen glowed and when He pushed “print” all His work was there.

      “How did He do it?”, Satan asked.

      God smiled and said, “Jesus Saved.”

      (there are more where that came from …)

    377. K1 says:

      Just a wee follow up, I’ve written to the Petitions site to clarify ‘how’ they ensure that a BC not residing the UK ‘can’ verify that they are indeed a BC without a post code.

      It make take a week or so to get back to me.

      Evidence free assertions are what this site challenges daily, it’s what makes it the site it has become renowned for. Even on perhaps what some may view as insignificant matters such as this, it’s important that anyone reading isn’t under any illusions about how this petition works.

      One only has to look at the backlash and false claims of ‘Russian bots’ hijacking this petition in recent days to see how important it is to have this clarified and also to ensure this petition is not written off as a ‘phoney’ petition by the parliament and the msm.

      The measure of its significance cannot be overstated in light of the person who set up the petition having received death threats on Friday evening.

      So do I give a flying fuck about whether I use a lot of words to say a simply thing?

      Do I fuck, as I’m not speaking ‘only’ to the person who claimed to have signed it without a post code but to others browsing the site who may have ‘thought’ that one could indeed just sign it without the post code from abroad.

      As I said I’ll await clarification on this matter, and if indeed I am in the wrong on this, I will come back and acknowledge that. But one thing is for sure I’ve pursued it because in fact it is important that this petition is not open to manipulation by anyone abroad ‘without’ a post code.

      Catch ye later. 🙂

    378. silverbuick says:

      Still got that bee in yer bunnet,eh? Still going on and on and on ad nauseum. Tag your it!

    379. K1 says:

      Can’t resist responding to me though can ye? 😉

    380. silverbuick says:

      Right back at you. You said you were finished but you’re like a bad rash.

    381. K1 says:

      I actually said I’d contacted the petition site for clarification and would return to this issue when I had a response from them…but do keep ‘your’ uncivil engagement up 😉

    382. silverbuick says:

      You said “I’ll not comment to you again on this matter” and kept on repeating yourself anyway. As far as being uncivil…pot, kettle,black. TAG

    383. K1 says:

      silver? I’ve also said what I just said wrt clarifying, if you want to keep going back over to what I previously said, that’s entirely up to you of course.

      Next?

    384. silverbuick says:

      If you meant what you said we wouldn’t be here now,would we? TAG

    385. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I suppose I could alwsys post another shaggy dog story!

    386. K1 says:

      Aye go on…it breaks up the monontony, you’d almost think the entire meaning of what I was driving at has completely lost him.

    387. silverbuick says:

      K9 instead of K1. Anything would be an improvement I suppose. TAG

    388. K1 says:

      It’s ‘tig’ not ‘tag’ in Scotland

    389. K1 says:

      I am like a dug wi a bone when it comes to pursuing issues. Fire away silver if that’s aw ye’ve got 😉

    390. silverbuick says:

      You’re still IT!

    391. yesindyref2 says:

      Okey-doke (fx: rubs hands with glee)

      Down on their luck

      Back in the days of pirates and sea monsters, there was an ignoble band who flew the black flag and pillage their way across the Atlantic coast of what is now called North America. These brigands pillaged their way across South America and the tropical islands until their hull was bursting with treasure. One day, the captain decides to stash it all, spends the bulk of the loot on supplies, and buries the rest on a deserted island far from the coast where only he, and his first mate, knew how to navigate the jagged rocks that guarded its shore. Having built up a reputation for themselves, stowed their valuables, and stocked up for a long trip, the captain steered them north, the coast to port, the open sea to starboard. When the weather started getting colder as they moved out of the tropics the men squandered their remaining booty on warm firs and blankets. Soon the men reached what we would later call New England and, seeking landfall to replenish and plunder, eagerly darted for shore. Fate was against them it seems, for they struck a rock almost a mile from shore and had to abandon all but the necessities. When the stragglers from the wreck washed on shore they had no money, no food, a few soggy blankets, and whatever arms they could muster. They came across a village after a few days, well it was more of a collection of huts anyways. Playing the innocent and bedraggled victims that they appeared, they hid their weapons, made peace with the chief of the tribe, and learned to work the fields of crops that the natives were working. The captain learned of a settlement of white men not too far that would trade with the Indians, for that’s indeed what they were, and the captain devised a scheme to regain his bounty, sail back to his trove, reclaim his former glory, and be shy of this place. With the weapons they kept hidden the captain and his trove killed the warriors of the tribe and enslaved the farmers and any other able bodied person they could, and confiscated the crop for themselves. The following month they tried to sell the corn, for that is all they learned to grow before staging their coup, but were too greedy, asking exorbitant pricing to move their product. They came back with their heads low and not a penny to show. The next month, after quelling a rebellion from their slaves, they returned to the market, this time intent on selling their crops and undercut the market. They returned with coffers full of a pittance, hardly worth the effort of keeping the slaves alive or the trip to and from the settlement. Finally, after months of selling not a single bushel or else selling the lot for a loss. After finding this magic amount, amassing a wealth to rival their own on purely corn, stealing a ship shape craft from the docks of the settlement, and pinching every penny on their way back (for they couldn’t draw attention to themselves as they moved on south for fear of being remembered and captured) the captain and the mate made it to the island, dug up his trove, split it among his remaining men, and made way for the nearest tavern to fill on grog and rum. Sitting in the bar drinking, the pirate captain reflected on the ordeal,and venturing forth from this place he decided, once and for all, to pay homage to that string of misfortune that befell him and his men. So that they he would never forget, he called his men together, and in the cold night air sobriety took over. Each man went his separate ways to spread the word to all men far and wide that the name of pirate was not good enough. To pay his respects to the slaves, and the settlers, and the men he lost, he swore to change the name of piracy. Reflecting on the last bushel of corn he sold, he remembered the price. They sold them for, and henceforth would be called, buck-an-ear’s.

      (ha-ha, Rev’s not here with his hammers)

    392. silverbuick says:

      Whit’s aw this? Oh well it doesn’t matter. K1 is still IT.

    393. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s the third shaggy dog story in this thread 😎

    394. K1 says:

      Still awaiting clarification from the petition site. 🙂

    395. silverbuick says:

      Oh goody there’s a new petition to sign.

    396. John Simon says:

      Scottish/UK politics is cocked-up much like politics everywhere. Politicians are professional liars no matter where they’re from. If someone can’t sale used cars they can become a politician. I’m a bloke from the West coast of the US.The US is essentially 50 countries under a federal government, with 300+ million souls. And soooo many politicians who would like to keep their fine paying jobs and bennies. They tow the line of their party whatever party that is. And continue the lies. And eventually “invest” in offshore money shelters. Yay.



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