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Wings Over Scotland

When Fact Checks Fail

Posted on March 21, 2019 by

Wings Over Scotland isn’t the only website dedicated to scrutinising the truthfulness of things claimed by politicians and media pundits. There’s the widely-respected and diligent, there’s Scotland’s own The Ferret, and there’s the BBC’s Reality Check (which frequently takes the more unconventional approach of, er, not making a finding either way about what the reality of things is).

And then there’s Channel 4’s FactCheck, which we’re going to generously assume had a liquid lunch yesterday and was a little under the weather.

Because not only is the conclusion that it reached on the subject of an independent Scotland having to use the Euro utter nonsense that’s been debunked roughly 1000 times in the last six years, it doesn’t even agree with itself.

It was triggered by an extraordinary display of arrogant rudeness by Kay Burley of Sky News the previous day, who shouted all over SNP MP Ian Blackford and then accused him of “mansplaining” when he calmly and politely attempted to correct her while being flagrantly and unashamedly in possession of a penis. The monster.

A stream of actual experts (along with hundreds of angry Scots) duly and patiently informed Burley of her error on social media, to which she responded with the grace and humility one would expect from an impartial news broadcaster.

But for some reason, C4’s FactCheck then decided it ought to weigh in on her side, but without bothering to actually, y’know, check any facts.

Because its first assertion was this:

And that’s going to come as quite a surprise to the EU, which on the very page the C4 FactCheck article actually links to says this:

And also this:

(To save you clicking to make those pics more legible, the highlighted sections say “Participation in ERM II is voluntary” and “it is up to individual countries to calibrate their path towards the euro and no timetable is prescribed”.)

It’s quite a piece of “fact-checking” to read the unambiguous words “participation in ERM II is voluntary” and then interpret them to mean that participation in ERM II is not voluntary. Yet that’s exactly what happened.

An obligation which is voluntary is not an obligation at all. The EU makes absolutely no attempt to enforce the “requirement” to join the Euro. One-third of the EU’s member states do not use the Euro and most have no meaningful intention to do so.

Some have been members for literally decades without adopting the currency, despite having no formal “opt-out” as the UK and Denmark do. Denmark is in fact the only EU country which currently is in ERM II, and it has a specific exemption from ever joining the Euro.

But “FactCheck” wasn’t done there. As well as carrying on making entirely groundless assertions, it decided to throw in another endlessly-debunked lie just for fun.

The claim about Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia is simply complete rubbish, as we’ve already established. If you want to use the “road” metaphor, it’s like saying someone standing on the M1 motorway just outside Watford is “on the road to” Newcastle, where the highway terminates as the A1(M).

Which is to say, it might be accurate in an abstract technical sense but in reality it’s meaningless drivel. The ROAD might go there (indeed, pretty much every road in the UK ultimately goes everywhere in the country), but the person who’s on it may have not the slightest intention of ever doing so. They might only be going to Luton, and nobody is ever going to try to force them to travel any further.

The EU really couldn’t have made its position about that very much clearer, with the President of the European Commission having declared himself “amazed by much of what is written in the press” about joining the single currency:

But then comes the double-whammy:

Oh dear God. Because as well as proclaiming as fact the opinion that Scotland avoiding the Euro indefinitely would be “unlikely” – without offering a single reason why – “FactCheck” knows fine well that the other sentence there is a total lie , as it goes on to explain in the next two paragraphs.

So Channel 4 has asserted, and then immediately disproved, two ancient myths, before inexplicably announcing that they’re actually both true. And false. But somehow still true anyway.

It’s an embarrassing shambles from a broadcaster that many independence supporters have generally regarded as the least biased and the least incompetent of the UK’s broadcast news outlets, and we can only hope that some manner of sense prevails and the entire farce is quietly fed into an electronic shredder before too long.

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  1. 21 03 19 13:56

    When Fact Checks Fail | speymouth

  2. 22 03 19 16:32

    Metrosplaining the euro « Wee Ginger Dug

379 to “When Fact Checks Fail”

  1. RyMc says:

    I really have respect for Ian Blackford. He is always very calm and collected and will do great things during the next Indyref campaign.

  2. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Someone in the employ of CH4 actually wrote that shite and they should be sacked forthwith.

  3. X_Sticks says:

    Whilst I agree that C4 news is the *least* biased they are still part of the british establishment when push come to shove.

    Scotland can’t trust ANY of the UK’s broadcast media.

    Support our own online folks like Broadcasting Scotland and Independence live instead 🙂

  4. Ruglonian says:

    So this is the go-to Euro debunking link from now on? Handy!

    It’s almost like we’re being helped in our Indyref2 preparations 😀

  5. galamcennalath says:

    There is a strong default assumption within the ‘London Bubble’ that the SNP assertions are always incorrect or invalid, and Scottish independence is a stupid idea. Accordingly, anyone from within their ‘Bubble’ disagreeing with the SNP must be automatically correct.

    Facts, data, legalities, just don’t come into the thought process.

  6. gordoz says:

    Thankyou for stating this so clearly.
    So much damage done with this ‘fake news’ type drivel C4. What were you thinking, get the kids off the computer & rectify for your reputation; and do it now!

  7. Bob Mack says:

    Scotland can use any tradeable currency it wishes, and that is just fact.

    The problem I think is that everyone is still in stop the Scots having another indy ref mode. They cannot afford to lose Scotland for very obvious financial and supply reasons.

    I don’t think that indy ref has ever been dormant. Like us ,the establishment have continued to try and keep Scotland in a box since the referendum.

    The problem they have is that it becomes all too obvious that the promises and assurances given to Scotland to vote No, was nothing more than a tissue of lies and deceit.

    Indyref2 for Westminster started the day after the result of indy ref 1 The surge in SNP membership rattled them completely, and their ensuing tactic of ignoring our representatives in Parliament to deprive us of a voice has also badly backfired.

    They have had their best blows turned on themselves and now it is our turn.

  8. Dr Jim says:

    These conclusions by channel four were the result of fact checking with Labour in Scotland’s finance spokesperson
    James (sit down) Kelly

    Monica Lennon told me, Naw she did! Honest!

  9. Malcolm McCandless says:

    I have less grace.

    *Channel 4 News are fucking idiots for spouting such pish”, is my reply.

    That feels better.

  10. Mike Cassidy says:

    Ian Blackfoot should have calmly and collectedly called Burley a liar.

  11. blackhack says:

    Sounds like Schrodinger’s euro/pound to me.

  12. Scotspatriot says:

    Lie Mode….the default setting for British Nationalists.

  13. Mike Cassidy says:


    Damn the correcting on this phone!

  14. Petra says:

    Kay Burley’s “controversy” track record speaks for itself. It’s clear that she’s an arrogant, loud mouthed wee ignoramus. How she’s managed to hang onto her job with Channel 4 is beyond me.


    The petition is being mentioned on BBC news. Approaching 800,000 signatures.

  15. Alasdair Galloway says:

    I hadn’t realised it was “quite” as clear as this, so thanks for the sources. My only addition to this would be that not only have Sweden been in the EU for more than two decades without adopting the Euro, they actually had a referendum about adopting it in 2003 and decided not to. Reversing that would be necessary before they could even contemplate it, no matter what the EU might think.

  16. MajorBloodnok says:

    Proof positive that, when it comes to Scotland and other foreign entities, British Nationalism really does interfere with basic thought processes, such as the use of logic and understanding what words mean.

  17. confused blonde says:

    O/T Sorry on first post can anyone tell me why I am not getting through to the petition?

  18. Alasdair Galloway says:

    is Kay Burley the Black Knight?

  19. defo says:

    “electronic shredder” reads as memory hole.

    Joining the ERM & adopting the € may well be the best course of action for us, depending on factors which are mainly out of our control.

    Successful socially progressive countries are anathema to the neo-liberal lizards who run the global show at present, and safety in numbers is generally a prudent policy.

    If we hit the hydrocarbon & renewable jackpot’s, as i suspect we will, selling energy to our near friends and neighbours in € would put powerful noses out of joint.

  20. Sinky says:

    SNP needs to monitor Sky Channel Four and ITV as well as BBC coverage of the third largest grouping at Westminster and second largest political party in whole of UK. The majority of London based broadcasters are actively campaigning against Scottish self government.

    O/T 2nd class stamp going up by 3p on Sunday.

    You can save money and order Scottish stamps here (any quantity.. no postage if ordering 100 or over)

  21. Karen Davies says:

    Whenever they try this argument I wonder what’s so bad about joining the euro anyway?

  22. ClanDonald says:

    Thanks for debunking this myth yet again, Rev. My jaw hit the floor when I saw Channel 4’s post.

    But maybe they’ve done us a favour, the fools, as they’ve proved to everyone that they’ve got no credibility and are as corrupt as the BBC when it comes to an independent Scotland. Their rookie error will come in handy in the months ahead.

  23. Ian says:

    Channel 4 news is UK to the bone. Misleading at best with anything to do with Scotland and maybe just more smug and self righteous than others in the MSM.

  24. galamcennalath says:

    Never forget Kay Burley has form!

    She described a YES supporter as “a bit of a knob” on air.

    She then went on to described a group as “campaigning against England”.

    Both here …

    Burley appears to be a fanatical English Nationalist who can’t put her prejudices aside in order to act professionally and carry out her highly paid job. The ‘argument’ was about the Euro, but it could easily have been about any other issue. The contrast between her ‘banshee screeching’ and Ian Blackford’s cool, calm, and informed response could not have been greater.

  25. Sinky says:

    Watching PMQs and obvious that Tories and Labour do not want to mention UK Brexit chaos

  26. When a country applies to join the EU, the accession treaty, which has 35 chapters (i.e. conditions for membership) are individually negotiated, and not one of them states anything about committing to or adopting the Euro.

    If members want to join the eurozone (also referred to as the euro area), then they would of course join the ERM, and although the Convergence Report that Stu refers to above, states that all members must commit to the Euro, while deciding their own timetable, it still doesn’t sound like even committing to the euro is a precursor for joining the EU. The euro zone, yes, but not the EU.

  27. Vestas says:

    C4 is partially funded via the BBC/govt tax so they say what they’re told to say regarding indyref2 – just like all the MSM “newspaper” who take “local democracy” money from the BBC/govt. If they don’t then ultimately they won’t get paid.

    You’re wasting your time with ANY of the MSM in the UK & for the life of me I can’t understand why RevStu seems so surprised….

  28. mr thms says:

    Channel 4 Fact Check has updated their article –

    ‘The SNP have directed us to a press release by the European Commission that includes a comment from President Juncker: “I don’t intend to force countries to join the euro if they are not willing or not able to do so”. In the same statement, the Commission reiterated Mr Juncker’s earlier comment that “All but two of our Member States are required and entitled to join the euro once they fulfil all conditions.”’

  29. Iain says:

    You’ve got to assume that there are persons in Channel4’s Fact Check team who are genuinely fair and capable of dispassionate analysis.

    But we know that there are – confirmed by Alan Little in BBC Scotland’s ‘Referendum’ programme – those in the media, in the south of England and indeed throughout the population of England who know so little of Scotland that what they do know is taken to be all there is to know, that the whole idea of an independent Scotland is self-evidently ridiculous, and therefore any argument advanced in its favour is based on ignorance and failure to understand.

    Thus on the Euro, a TV reporter with no knowledge of EU issues and finance can correct an SNP MP who has. And if that MP points out her errors – however gently – that’s a challenge to self-assumed authority, and in peevish irritation the company’s backroom team tries to have the last word by online reiteration.

  30. mumsyhugs says:

    The National has been doing a pretty good job on it’s front covers of having a go at the BBC’s bias. Maybe time for it to start highlighting Ms Burley’s bias and calling her out on it?

  31. Frazerio says:

    It’s that tone they use. They’ve just got such an enshrined core belief that anyone who thinks Scotland can be a normal country is a raving lunatic.

    The Euro is bad, we’d be forced to use it, its a bad thing if Indy Scotland uses it, we’d have no choice etc.

    When he calmly explains we wouldn’t be forced to use the Euro and we’ll keep using the pound for the time being, she retorts ‘so why would you want to stay with the pound?’

    Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

    I’d immediately appoint Kevin Bridges as SNP Spokesperson on all things financial. I’ve always liked his currency suggestion, the Smackeroonie!!!

  32. Robin says:

    Has anybody sent the link to this piece by the Rev to Jon Snow or Krishnan?

    Would be nice to see a full apology on the CH4 News later on 😉

  33. WG Saraband says:

    Expecting this kind of stuff from the BBC and the usual suspects, but really disappointed in Channel 4. Of course, they too are excessively London-centric and pro-UK establishment, but far better than anything the BBC does. Disappointed, nonetheless.

  34. Rev, now that you have put the “joining the Euro” pish to bed, be prepared for the “Spanish veto” pish that will be along shortly.

  35. Macart says:

    They really didn’t look very hard…

    …or even at all. 🙄

  36. Shug says:

    What a horrid woman

    Well sorted by Blackford

  37. Robert Louis says:

    Kay Burley has two problems in my opinion.

    The first is that her somewhat limited talent is getting increasingly overshadowed by her much larger ego.

    The second problem appears to be that she has allowed her prejudices to direct her understanding of a subject. You see, I think many so-called ‘journalists’ in London have been repeatedly told by British Nationalists in both Labour and Tory parties, that indy Scotland would need to use the pound. I do not doubt they are then directed (very selectively) to the section of the EU website which states that new EU members must commit to adopting the Euro. This suffices to confirm their pre-adopted viewpoint, that Scotland would indeed have to join the Euro. Yet because of their prejudices and lack of proper research, they fail to notice the technicalities of Euro adoption, and the wholly voluntary nature of ERM membership.

    This is the problem. As alluded to earlier in the week by ex-BBC Alan Little of the preconceived notions about Scotland which exist in London. These so-called ‘journalists’ catch a wee snippet which confirms their prejudices, and therefore do not properly check the FACTS. I do not doubt for one second, that preconceived prejudices are behind the clear nonsense which has been published on the Channel 4 news laughingly titled ‘fact check’ page.

    This is the fundamental problem. So-called ‘journalists’ in London know next to nothing about what has been happening in Scotland, and precious little about how freaking often people in Scotland have laughed out loud at this puerile ‘must adopt the Euro’ p*sh. The other problem is that, as shown by Kay Burley, they genuinely THINK they know, to the point of arguing in the most unprofessional way, with those who actually know the FACTS.

    Over and above all that, Scotland can use its pound sterling, as it is before independence. It belongs after all, to Scotland as well as any other countries of the UK. In fact the GBP can be used by any country in the world, and they don’t need to ask London. In addition, Scotland can choose to use whatever tradeable currency it wishes. It could use the US Dollar, as several countries do. It could even CHOOSE to use the Euro (and why not), after joining the ERM for two years.

  38. Artyhetty says:

    ChannelFour is a disgrace to journalism. It was once a channel with integrity, but became part of the British Nationalist establishment many years ago, and particularly went Britnat during the independence referendum, just like the pretendy lefty rag the Guardian.

    Journalists are persecuted around the world for their work to get the truth out, some are tortured and murdered. Just look at Latin America, it’s horrendous. That is why I personally absolutely abhor outright lies like this.

    The facts are there, yet the agenda of these excuses for journalism, is to actually con the people, in this case it’s to suit a British Nationalist narrative. Scotland is supposedly a drain on the people of rUK, yet, they don’t want Scotland to attain independence.

    It’s a case of gas lighting Scotland, Scotland’s people and the SNP now. It’s just sickening.

    Shame on channel four for lying, and covering up the truth,
    an assault on Scotland and an assault on factual journalism and truthful journalists.

  39. galamcennalath says:

    Iain says:

    the whole idea of an independent Scotland is self-evidently ridiculous, and therefore any argument advanced in its favour is based on ignorance and failure to understand

    Agreed. Not a dissimilar view to that which I expressed above.

    We usually make the assumption that challenges to our quest for self determination are driven by imperialism. Truth is, many attacks are simply based on lack of knowledge about Scotland, or indeed the UK. To many, throughout these isles, the idea of Scotland taking a rightful place as a country among the nations of the world is literally ridiculous and therefore worthy of ridicule.

    In WM we hear that ignorance directed towards our MPs from across the benches. Remarks which we see as stupid and ill founded no doubt seem clever to the perpetrators!

    The media takes the same approach by default.

    Perhaps there is actually a tactic here. While there is no cure for imperial nationalism, there certainly is a cure for pig ignorance – education at every opportunity! Brexit is opening eyes and ears throughout the UK, more people may be receptive to any and all challenges that the UK London centric model is the only valid one. It is happening. We hear so often of English folks saying they opposed Scotland leaving in 2014 but now they wouldn’t blame us for wanting out!

  40. Abulhaq says:

    Why would iScotland not want to join the eurozone?

  41. call me dave says:

    @The Tree of Liberty

    Oh no! Not the Spanish Inquisition thing. 🙂

    As mentioned above it’s all quiet North of the wall at FMQs.

    Best not frighten the horses eh! I mean there’s nothing going on constitutionally that’s rearing its ugly head.

  42. Giving Goose says:

    Television journalism doesn’t exist in the UK.
    A better description would be that it is broadcasting fake news and propaganda in a way that is designed to make it look like it is genuine unbiased information.

  43. Yerkitbreeks says:

    Don’t suppose there’s any point in informing the Regulators ?

    If watching Prime Ministers questions was mandatory for all Scots, the way Blackford is treated in the chamber might raise a few eyebrows

  44. ScottieDog says:

    It’s going to be a horrid campaign.

  45. galamcennalath says:

    OT The A50 revocation petition is back up and flying

    Edinburgh North and Leith
    Deidre Brock MP
    Scottish National Party
    4,868 signatures
    4.38% of 111,065 constituents

    The response has been phenomenal and only just begun.

  46. Robert Louis says:

    Tree of liberty at 1233pm,

    Indeed. We will have the ‘spanish veto myth, which was NEVER actually true’ swiftly followed by ‘but Shetland will keep all the oil and decide to become independent, which is nonsense’, then followed up by ‘the oil is running out’, or the oil is too volatile in value’, or ‘their will be barbed wire fences at Gretna Green, and border guards’, or ‘England will re-build Hadrians wall (completely ignoring the actual FACT that Hadrians wall runs some 100 miles SOUTH of Scotland – right through the middles of Newcastle upon Tyne – hence the place called Wallsend, at the end of the wall in newcastle), or we might have ‘Scotland will be booted out of NATO’, or ‘Scotland will have to join the ‘back of the queue for EU admission’ – although the EU has confirmed their actually is NO queue.

    I have no doubt we will see them all. Perhaps revstu might like to do a kind of indy myth bingo, so we can keep track of all the old lies used this time around. It’ll be fun.

  47. Lenny Hartley says:

    Channel 4 is like Corbyn, everybody should be free and Independent apart from Scotland. i used to like Jon Snow but he showed his ignorance and arrogance during Indyref 1. I dont believe any of the MSM outlets, even RT spouts the Brit Establisment agenda during Interviews.

  48. Arbroath1320 says:

    What can I say ….

    Oh yes … they don’t like it up em Capt’n Manwaring!

    I am convinced even stronger than before that the pressure cooker full of shit is on the verge of exploding and no one in the Britnat kitchen has a clue what to do to stop it! 😀

    They, the Britnats, know the games a bogey now and they have absolutely NOTHING to offer up in response to OUR demands for independence other than you MUST use the Euro!

    It’s a funny old game, as some have said in the past. First it was you can NOT have a currency union with US. Now it is you MUST have a currency union with us otherwise you MUST use the Euro!

    Am I the only one who wishes the Britnats would just make their bloody minds up about what THEY want US to use? 😀

    If THIS is what the Britnats are pushing BEFORE indey ref 2 actually begins then it appears, to me at least, that the Britnats have absolutely nothing left in their armoury! 😀

  49. Dr Jim says:

    What we have is a failure to cummunicate,

    The EU countries and all their representatives go out of their way to speak English to *British* politicians *British journalists* *British* television reporters indeed Scottish Welsh and Irish politicians go out of their way to speak English to all these same people, yet still the *British* suffer from a failure to communicate coupled with instant memory loss and a propensity for deafness

    Are words in English too difficult to understand for the *British* it seems the rest of us manage to understand each other fine whatever language we speak

  50. Macart says:

    @Tree of Liberty

    Pretty much.

    Buy y’know whut? ANY time some Britnat rolls out the rinse and repeat horse shit from indyref1. ANY TIME AT ALL. All folks need do is point to the biblical galactof**k that IS Brexit and the epic failure to deliver on ANY damn thing promised to Scotland’s population from 2014.

    The next words used at that point are very, very, very, etc. important. So I hope some Britnat policy gonks are paying close attention, because you’re going to hear this… A LOT.

    Those words are (drum roll) – Why on earth should we ever again believe a single word you have to say? ON ANYTHING.

  51. Ottomanboi says:

    Scotland is a great natural resource for the British state, all that land, water, oil, eco-energy potential, just a pity about the surly inhabitants.
    Similarly, France is a wonderful country, but Oh the awful French!
    As for the Spanish, Italians, Germans……..
    The Brit staters see the world through venerable 19th century cataracts, her Britannic majesty requests and requires etc.
    Brexit surgery would bring much clearer vision to the subject, were the subject to admit to having sight impairment in the first place.

  52. Effijy says:

    I know IPSOS is a waste of space and a signed up member of Britnat buffoonery but if a Channel has been informed that they have lied and irrefutable proof of this has been presented and they still refuse to correct it, I would have thought sending this on to IPSOS with details of your correspondence puts them in a position that they can’t get out of.

    I’d also like to see SNP start any future interview on any subject with clarification that they knowingly and deliberately lied, and continue to lie and here is where you can see proof to set your own mind at ease.

    There is no TV, Radio, or Newspaper columnist that could claim to be a journalist. Plenty of propaganda peddlers happy to follow order for large salaries.

  53. Les Wilson says:

    You did it again Rev,what you do best.

    Ch4 as others have pointed out are just another part of the britnat media.
    None of them even think nor know very much about what is going on in Scotland, even fewer know what the groundswell is here, and Indy is rising, albeit not quick enough for me.
    However that will change drastically when campaigning really starts.

    The media(let’s call them that) will be spouting more and more pish. But where they lose, is we have heard it all before.

  54. starlaw says:

    Before we are much older we shall be glad of any currency be it Pound Euro Bawbee or Button just as long as it can be used to buy what little is in the shops, thanks to Brexit.

  55. johnj says:

    There’s nothing new here unfortunately. Channel 4 News, including the otherwise estimable Jon Snow, has always had a sneering and patronising view of Scots and independence. JS does come from a very well entrenched establishment British family after all.

  56. Petra says:

    BBC Politics Live programme hosted by Andrew Neil: Joanna Cherry is invited on at the last minute and asked about the Revocation Petition. She makes it clear that it’s got nothing to do with her (and the SNP), although she signed it. The girl is on the ball. She then starts to mention that she was one of six Scottish Parliamentarians who won the A50 revocation case in Europe. He talks over her to shut her up. I mean to say they, the BBC, don’t want people thinking that the Scots aren’t stupid, now do they? She then gets a couple of comments in, such as if it goes down to the No Deal wire next week they’ve got a way out of the shambles. He then involves Farage (in Brussels) in the discussion. Farage who gets more time to speak (and lie) than Joanna Cherry. The BBC’s token gesture to quashing the SNP bias allegations.

  57. HandandShrimp says:

    Someone should fact check that Channel 4 actually has a fact check function or just a support your local stupid journalist facility.

    I missed all this because I rarely watch TV news. It is not a good source of primary information from any of the channels. Smug, shallow and badly researched. A vehicle for opinion rather than news.

  58. Bill Fraser says:

    Like others I am sad to see C4 News standards slipping. To be fair, as I have pointed out on Twitter, their confusion is not just about Independence but anything north of postcode N1

  59. Dr Jim says:

    @Petra 1:29pm

    Joanna Cherry has three strikes against her, first she’s a woman, second she’s a smart well educated woman, third she’s a representative of Scotland

    There is of course the fourth unwritten strike, she’s way way smarter than Andrew Neil and that practically disqualifies anybody no matter who they represent

  60. McBoxheid says:

    I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but sorry in case.

    Scotland would not be simply joining the EU, we would be rejoining after having been forceably ejected against our will. We would have a different status to a country that has never be in it and thus applying for a new membership. (Not that a new country would have to (could) join the € straight away anyway.) There would of course be new conditions to be agreed on by both sides, as Scotland is not the UK of GB and NI, but readiness for membership is already there in full, as a recent unvoluntary ejected member state.

  61. Dr Jim says:

    @McBoxheid 1:36pm

    We’d probably get new a customer only discount

  62. McBoxheid says:

    Dr Jim says:
    21 March, 2019 at 1:12 pm

    What we have is a failure to cummunicate,

    To take that a step further in a Guns’N’Roses analogy. (I can’t link to utube from another country.)

    We don’t need no civil war.

    Unfortunately, the Tory civil war has spilled into the UK parliament and is now awaiting warmer weather before it spills into the English cities. Unless this Brexit farce is sorted, I think the larger conurbations in England may well burst into the flames of civil unrest.

  63. jfngw says:

    Channel 4 making an arse of itself, but they will buckle down on the misinformation. That’s just what the BritNat media do, in fact it will now be a reference point for the BritNat No supporters, I believe I’ve already seen the Tories referencing it in a tweet.

    The No side have no morals when it comes to lying, we should already know this from 2014.

    They are already using another quote from Juncker, but I suspect it is from a translation and this may be ambiguous (translation have level of interpretation by the translator). My interpretation was that he was saying only two countries actually have an opt-out and never need to commit to joining, the rest are committed to and can join when they feel it is right for them.

  64. orri says:

    Radical suggestion,

    Scotland retains it’s share of the UK’s nationalised central bank, ie the Bank of England and as such get’s a seat on the governing body. With that seat it gets input into the setting of interest rates and other decisions. Ironically independence could give Scotland more control over Sterling than it does now.

    No Deal isn’t the only default option in play. Unless Westminster plan some kind of force majeure where they retain or deny Scotland an equitable share of the joint assets out taxes and revenue have paid for they’ll either have to name a price for our share or accept we exercise our ownership sights.

  65. Capella says:

    Dan Snow has maybe got at uncle Jon.

    Stuart Cosgrove on the John Beattie Show pointing out that the BBC always cut away from Ian Blackford when he rises to speak at PMQs. As the representative of Scottish voters in Westminster he should be heard and viewers should not have to change channels to hear what he has to say.

    Good for Stu Cosgrove for pointing this out.

  66. jfngw says:

    Do we not mark down Chan 4 ‘fact check’ site as a fake news source, looks like it to me. Of course it then tarnishes the whole of Ch 4 News as a reliable source of information. I’m sure they probably don’t care, their loyalties are elsewhere I suspect.

  67. Derek Rogers says:

    Complaint to Channel 4 duly sent (using the substance of Stu’s post). Losing trust ought to matter to them, so I made sure of putting that bit in. Maybe they’ll get the idea.

    Have to say their complaints website is a damned sight more friendly than the BBC’s – got the job done in 5mins., whereas the BBC will take you an hour. There is hope. (Mibbees.)

  68. David S. Briggs says:

    Why would the UK be exempt from joining the Euro? because they didn’t have to and neither would Scotland. Their argument has more holes in it than a colander. Even if Scotland were ‘new’ to the EU they still wouldn’t have to join the Euro. Why this has to be stated, again and again, defies logic.

  69. Jack Murphy says:

    Off Topic.


    Scottish Parliament TV:

  70. Rookiescot says:

    Kay Burley will say whatever she is briefed to say or read off the teleprompter.
    She is working for the UK version of Fox news.
    If someone put it up on the screen that “I will now cover myself in custard and sing Silent Night” she would read it out.

  71. Sinky says:

    Detailed explanation of joining the Euro and why Indy Scotland will join EFTA rather than EU on Independence Day.

  72. Robert Mitchell says:

    Some years ago the Euro-sceptic Michael Portillo made some tv programmes in which he visited several countries and “offered” the people he spoke to the chance to return to their original currencies from the Euro. As I recall, even the Greeks chose to keep the Euro.

  73. Tatu3 says:

    Would it be such a bad thing to use the euro? Possibly a lot of Scots might think so because the media keep telling us it would be. It’s “foreign” after all! Germany seem to have done alright with it.

  74. geeo says:

    Geeo Full fact check No.1 : Are you in the uk?

    If yes, turn out your pockets, are they full of Euros ?

    Yes: yer a liar

    No: well, there ye go.

  75. Breeks says:

    McBoxheid says:
    21 March, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but sorry in case.

    Scotland would not be simply joining the EU, we would be rejoining after having been forceably ejected against our will. We would have a different status to a country that has never be in it and thus applying for a new membership…

    I firmly believe if we go about this correctly, we will achieve a transition where Scotland never actually leaves the EU to begin with.

    If we successfully dispute UK Parliamentary Sovereignty before the deadline expires, Scotland will be a freestanding soveregn entity still inside the EU by virtue of the fact it hasn’t left, where Westminster has no colonial authority to lawfully drag Scotland out, and where the EU has no lawful mechanism to push us out.

    Scotland’s integration into Europe from within will create it’s own precedent, and yes, it will require negotiation, agreement and ratification, but NONE of those protocols actually require Scotland to exit and rejoin. There is no reason why an inverted version of Article 50 could not be agreed between Scotland and the EU whereby Scotland might have (say) 2 years to agree membership terms, but if such terms cannot reach agreed compromise within the two years, then Scotland would exit by default and reapply.

    In essence, Scotland’s integration into Europe could be Brexit in reverse; not an interim Withdrawal Agreement but the reciprocal, an interim Convergence Agreement pending fuller discussions, negotiations and appropriate ratification, but the general parameters of membership already agreed in principle.

    That is not to preclude the possibility that Scotland might exit and rejoin for the sake of simplicity, but by prior arrangement, we need never step outside ECJ jurisdiction, the Single Market or Customs Union, or break any continuity in the Four Freedoms. The entire process can be an internal matter in the EU.

    Far from being the more complicated option, I would argue and propose that Scotland interests and Europes interests are better served when Scotland remains in the EU without ever leaving, but NOT as a Continuer or Seceding State as convention would suggest, but through a bespoke new precedent set to resolve unprecedented circumstances arising.

  76. Breeks says:

    Just to add… The EU has a presumption against seceding States finding their way into Europe, so we might even be surprised just how enthusiastic the EU might be to accommodate a bespoke integration process which is unique to Scotland’s circumstances, – especially if sets no wider precedents which serve to further the interests of secessionist movements around Europe which potentially threaten disintegration of EU member states. Scotland’s path might be a path nobody else can follow.

  77. Thepnr says:

    O/T Petition to revoke Article 50 has just crashed at 998,600 signatures?

  78. hackalumpoff says:

    When push comes to shove, what will they do?

  79. Thepnr says:

    Back again and now exceeds 1,000,000 LOL

  80. frogesque says:


    Petition now over 1 M signatures.

    Leadsom may well get her wish yet!

  81. geeo says:

    Sent off to C4 complaints dept.

    Breath not being held.

    Channel 4 joining the liars at BBC and SKY News.

    They recently performed a ‘fullfact’ check on Sky news’s Kay Burley’s claims an indy Scotland would absolutely have to join the Euro, despite it being EU POLICY to NOT FORCE ANYONE to do any such thing. (How many Euros do people in the uk currently use for instance?)

    Here is C4’s position utterly destroyed by Wings over Scotland, using ACTUAL FACTS, and incredibly, using FACTS from THE VERY SAME SOURCES C4 claim to have used.

    I DEMAND that C4 news issues a full on-air and digital media apology, over what was clearly LIES and disinformation to gain political points against the SNP/Scottish Independence, and to con the people of Scotland as part of an ongoing anti Scottish agenda on behalf of the uk political establishment.

    Without a full correction and apology, C4 will lose the trust of Scots people,many of who previously believed to be the least openly biased uk broadcast media provider.

    Or, like Sky and the BBC, are C4 news prepared to scamper down the biased unionist rabbit hole BY CHOICE to fight Scots exercising our Sovereign rights, human rights, and civil rights to democratically prosecute the mandate we have given the SNP Scotsgov over the Ukexit we as Scots thoroughly rejected by almost 2:1 ?

    Will C4 even bother to respond to this complaint ?

    Or, more likely, will they offer up a mealy mouthed defence based on absolutely zero evidence, like the BBC do ?

    Over to you, C4.

  82. twathater says:

    Can I put forward a proposal , that ALL SNP and indy supporting politicos undergo training on the currency issue at GRUMPY BOB’S ( Peffers ) school for the unenlightened .

    BTW I am totally serious,the amount of times I have watched this raised at interviews and discussions and our reps have been wishywashy ( to be kind ) drives me to despair

    When they are asked WHAT currency we will use , they should answer the one we ALREADY use THE SCOTTISH POUND , they should then ask viewers to check the currency in their wallets and purses right now and I guarantee that most Scots will be amazed at the results .

    When they are asked , what will you do if the BOE refuses to let you , they should answer AS WE ALREADY OWN PART of the BOE how will they stop us , they should then give a potted history as taught at GRUMPY BOB’S academy , that EVERY Scottish Pound in circulation is backed by a corresponding one lodged in the BOE , they should also retort that when we leave we will be taking that money with us and we will insist on receiving our share of the market value of the BOE

    This would blindside the presstitutes and hopefully awaken people to the lies being spouted

    BTW Mr Peffers (Grumpy Bob ) you will have to keep well to train these people

  83. call me dave says:

    Rev puts Kibosh jinxy thing on Scotland.

    “What could possibly go wrong” he asks 🙁

  84. Josef Ó Luain says:

    If there’s one thing the whole Brexit debate has been good for it’s been to expose the “voice-of-authority” long associated with the political establishment, the civil service and their cheer-leaders in the media. As many of us have known or suspected: the incompetent shysters who populate these professions have been making-it-up for years.

    That’s going to happen, of course, when a narrowly educated and overly privileged social-grouplet is given the power to endlessly replicate itself.

  85. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says:21 March, 2019 at 11:53 am:

    ” … The problem I think is that everyone is still in stop the Scots having another indy ref mode.”

    I believe you are correct there, Bob Mack, but I know that the problem is, much deeper than that and it affects the Indy side almost as much as the English Nationalist side. It really is the centuries old brainwashing propaganda.

    There is the general, (wrong), assumption that Westminster, England and the United Kingdom are all one and the same thing.

    By projection this morphs into the assumption that England owns the Bank of England and by extension the Pound belongs to the Bank of England and thus to England. None of which is correct.

    In truth Westminster is not actually legally the Parliament of England and its name tells the truth – The United Kingdom Parliament. By the way the claim that Westminster is sovereign over the United Kingdom is also false belief. Here’s why, In 1688, before the Treaty of Union, the English parliament at Westminster rebelled against their monarch, (they shared him with the still independent Kingdom of Scotland).

    The rebels deposed their monarch and invited in the first protestant in the direct line of descent to become their Queen, (Mary of Orange). Mary refused as she did not want her husband, Billy, as her consort. The English rebels then offered the crowns of England, Wales and Ireland to the couple as joint monarchs and Mary accepted.

    But I digress – The point was that the rebels did not trust their invited monarchy and the condition they imposed was that to get the crowns the couple had to legally delegate their sovereignty, (the divine Right of Kings), to the rebel parliament of England and that became English law.

    So on the Treaty of Union this English law was illegally adopted for the new United Kingdom Parliament but under Scots law the people are sovereign so in fact Westminster was only legally sovereign in England, Wales and Ireland.

    Legally Westminster is not sovereign over the Kingdom odf Scotland. How can it be when Scots Law is based upon the people being sovereign?

    So getting back to the financial arrangements. The Treaty of Union states that the agreed currency of both kingdoms is the Pound Sterling. So the Pound Sterling is as much Scotland’s, (the Kingdom), as it is the three country Kingdom of England’s.

    Not we must deal with the common belief that the Bank of England belongs to England. It doesn’t – The Bank of England is so named because the English Kingdom banked with it – not because it owned it. The correct name of the BofE is, “The Governor and company of the Bank of England”, and it was begun as a private company and it remained so until 1946 when, The United Kingdom Government nationalised it. The UK government – NOT the English Parliament – The BofE belongs partly to the Kingdom of Scotland.

    Yet these numpties think it, and the Pound Sterling, belong to England. Furthermore there is the daft idea that when the breakup happens everything will be divided up along the lines of current population proportions and that is daft.

    Westminster controlled not only the population of Scotland by their policies, (think clearances, deindustrialisation and extra-regio territories), but the tax and excise levied on Scottish produce. None of which was population based.

    So there you go – several long held wrong beliefs blown right out of the water. The pound isn’t England’s: The Bank of England isn’t England’s and Westminster isn’t England’s either.

  86. twathater says:

    I rest my case

  87. Robert Peffers says:

    @Alasdair Galloway says:21 March, 2019 at 11:59 am:

    … My only addition to this would be that not only have Sweden been in the EU for more than two decades without adopting the Euro, they actually had a referendum about adopting it in 2003 and decided not to.”

    Not only that but as it has only been the EU. since 1 November 1993 then many of the countries still not using the Euro were founding member countries – as, of course, was Scotland.

  88. jfngw says:

    I see the Rev is watching the Scotland match, I bet his visits to the dentist don’t seem so painful in retrospect.

    Looks like C4 have outsourced their facts service to Scotland in Union. Can’t really think how else they could come up with so much rubbish. They can’t seem to even get the facts about joining the Euro and joining the EU correct.

  89. Robert Peffers says:

    @ confused blonde says: 21 March, 2019 at 12:00 pm:

    … O/T Sorry on first post can anyone tell me why I am not getting through to the petition?”

    Yes – it has probably been answered already – but the answer is that because of the number of people using the site – it crashed. It is probably back now.

  90. Lenny Hartley says:

    Never mind a petition to revoke article 50, think one to sack Mcleish is more pertinent just now.

  91. John Mc says:

    Channel 4 is owned by the government.

    Their news is produced by the same ITN that produces ITV’s “news”

  92. Fireproofjim says:

    I sincerly hope that the SNP have spoken to the EU so that we have senior spokesmen in Europe who can refute the lies about currency, Scotland goes to the end of the queue, Spanish veto, etc.
    This MUST be all lined up before Inderef 2, and I hope the SNP have done their homework.
    We were caught cold last time, with no Europeans prepared to come forward. I think it may be different next time.
    Similarly a strong confirmation (guarantee) that pensions will be unaffected. This was used by lying Gordon Brown to scare many older voters in 2014. Actually a promise that Scottish pensions will be brought up to the European average ASAP would be a potential vote winner.
    All those things loud and clear please.

  93. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Ms Burley has form on this sort of thing.

    She was extremely rude to Craig Murray over the Skripal affair and it becomes clear she only had him for interview to get him to retract a comment he had made previously questioning the integrity of Sky News. I lost respect for her then and this latest spat has just reinforced that view.

  94. Robert Peffers says:

    @defo says:21 March, 2019 at 12:01 pm:

    ” … If we hit the hydrocarbon & renewable jackpot’s, as i suspect we will, selling energy to our near friends and neighbours in € would put powerful noses out of joint.”

    If putting noses out of joint is your aim then a far, far better way of doing so is to continue to use our own currency, THE POUND STERLING, and tying it to the English Pound Sterling.

    Here’s why. The McCrone Report frightened the shit out of Westminster by what Professor Gavin McCrone reported to Westminster and that was because he reported that the Scottish pound tied to the English pound would harden so much as to embarrass England. Which was why Westminster buried the McCrone Report.

    Now a too hard currency is a problem and it is why Norway buys Euros it doesn’t need but it is nothing like as bad for your economy as having another wealthy county forcing your own currency to react and you have no good way to help the problem.

    It would be laughable if a hard Scottish pound forced England to adopt the Euro to save the pound English hitting rock bottom.

  95. jfngw says:

    I read Mcleish wants to manage Scotland till 2022, as long as he’s gone by 20:30 then that’s OK.

  96. Essexexile says:

    I’m not wanting to embark on a savage character assassination of Kay Burley but, we all work with a person exactly like her.
    You know the type. Been there ages, has risen up the ladder by shouting a lot, repeatedly demonstrates that they are employed well above the level their limited talent would suggest, seemingly untouchable because they know where the bodies are buried, everyone else has to just put up with it until they f**k off and retire.
    The main reason she frequently makes a prat of herself in interviews is that she’s actually pretty thick. Not that most people that watch Sky would notice.

  97. ronnie anderson says:

    { Over throw the tables & cast out the Money changers from the temple } or so said Jesus .

    Im just back from Tenerife on Sat & never used the money changers I used my Visa card £ 1.94 whither you want € 10 or €500 .

    So’s I wouldn’t have a problem being in EU & using the €€€ now that I am retired & with a increase of Pension in a Independent Scotland my Wife & Myself would be having more holidays , just for the sunshine .

  98. CameronB Brodie says:

    galamcennalath says at 11:48 am

    “There is a strong default assumption within the ‘London Bubble’ that the SNP assertions are always incorrect or invalid, and Scottish independence is a stupid idea.”

    Path dependency mate. Three centuries of imperial dominance can do that to a culture, a consequence of the over-centralisation of political and cultural power. It has resulted in the concept that London is the Beez Neez*. Now there was a dump. 🙂

    * Dundee nightclub in the ’80s/90s.

    Beyond education for economic productivity alone: The Capabilities Approach


    The Capabilities Approach, as developed by philosopher Martha Nussbaum, provides a much needed re-balancing of aims in education. With its Aristotle-inspired ethical dimension this approach values the capabilities of practical reason and affiliation as critical for individual and societal development. As shown by social science research children continue to face difficulties in society today, whether in respect of educational or psychosocial development. A narrow utilitarian approach in education aimed at economic productivity alone, often prevalent in policy in England, exacerbates this situation.

    By contrast, it is proposed that the Capabilities Approach, with its broader aims, be embraced in education to help children flourish as engaged actors in society capable of making good judgments individually and with others.

    The path dependency theory: analytical framework to study institutional integration. The case of France

    The politics and policies of welfare chauvinism under the economic crisis

    Who benefits? Welfare chauvinism and national stereotypes

  99. McDuff says:

    The entire UK MSM hates Scotland.
    England has all but declared war on us but without the guns.
    We must defend ourselves against this onslaught, but the question is how.

  100. Jeff says:

    She knows fine that it’s wrong, so does the show’s producer, but they both know it’e been SAID on national TV and that means many many people will believe it. Mission accomplished. They’ve started early though….must be expecting something soon – bring it on I say…..

  101. Jack says:

    Sky News accusing a guest of “mansplaining”, when responding to an assertion live on air from the host sums up the British media perfectly. Seriously, did they just invite him to stand there and patronisingly nod so he could get a front row seat while Kay Burley gives us all her view on the fucking European Exchange Rate Mechanism?

  102. Robert Kerr says:

    Auld Bob aka Mr Peffers.

    Tying the Pound Scots to the Pound Sterling is a masterstroke.

    Apoplexy unlimited.

    Glad you can still think outside the nine dots.

    Hope your health is improving.

  103. Tatu3 says:

    I’m hoping this link works. So this on fb. Great to hear

  104. yesindyref2 says:

    Alert thingie, prediction expert I guess, to Thepnr who said the petition would be above 1 million today at the rate it was going up last night.

  105. Essexexile says:

    As I’ve made comment on the performances of the Scottish rugby team a few times it’s only fair to mention the football.
    Kazakhstans biggest win was 7-0 against the mighty Pakistan.
    At least that record looks safe.

  106. Clootie says:

    We have to adopt the Euro. Actual facts do not matter when propaganda is required.

  107. yesindyref2 says:

    that’s been debunked roughly 1000 times in the last six years,

    yesindyref2 factcheck – that should be roughly 1000 times every minute of the last six years. I.e. 3,155,692,600 times in total as of this minute.

  108. hackalumpoff says:

    @Ronnie Anderson

    I’ve been using these guys since they started, excellent.

  109. ronnie anderson says:

    Not that am flummoxed by anything put out by AUOB .

    Mandeep Singh updated his status.
    Yesterday at 16:06
    So people want to become another region in Europe sign away their nationhood. Loayl to the European flag not the flag of the land they are born. Believe in another corrupt Union and the same corrupt leaders they are so against. You can’t even make this up as this is a sad reality. They don’t even know what the meaning of an independent country is. Brainwashed is an understatement .

    I was going to comment on the offer of yellow vests yesterday to AUOB I hope you see this comment Crazycat & let the person know who made the offer to read this comment .

    Another nail in the coffin of the leadership of AUOB .

  110. Ronnie says:

    Can anyone explain to me in simple terms (imagine I’m an 8 year old) why joining the Euro would be a bad thing?

  111. geeo says:


    Indeed !!

    Congrats Thepnr, yer a ‘lert !!!:-)

  112. Robert Peffers says:

    @Frazerio says: 21 March, 2019 at 12:32 pm:

    ” … I’d immediately appoint Kevin Bridges as SNP Spokesperson on all things financial. I’ve always liked his currency suggestion, the Smackeroonie!!!”

    Why ever would Scotland want to make itself a laughing stock?

    Scotland already has its own currency and it has had it since at least 1 May 1707. It’s called the Pound Sterling and it says so in the Treaty of Union. The pound is not England’s to tell us we cannot use it. It is the agreed currency of both kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union.

    Not only that but the Scots pound is distinctive enough that robbing Englanders in London will attempt to give you change that is less than the face value on the banknote. Some will even refuse to accept a Scottish note.

    Not only is the Pound Sterling as much the Scottish Currency as it is England’s but the so called Bank of England has never in its entire history ever belonged to the Kingdom of England.

    It began as a private company and its full title is The Governor and Company of the Bank of England. It remained a private company until 1946 when THE UNITED KINGDOM parliament nationalised it and the UNITED KINGDOM Parliament is the joint parliament of both kingdoms that comprise The United Kingdom. It is thus partly Scottish.

    Furthermore the reason that succeeding Westminster parliaments hid the McCrone Report away as Top Secret was because the report warned that an independent Scotland’s pound would become so strong against the English pound as to leave England economically ruined.

    Why else do you imagine hey are so set upon putting Scots off use of the pound and implying that the Bank of England belongs only to England? Don’t fall for their bullshit – go learn the truth.

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    “So people want to become another region in Europe sign away their nationhood.”

    That’s straight out of the Eurosceptic verse book, left-wing version I suppose.

    @Mandeep Singh
    Socialism is not a pastime for isolationists, there is no left-wing case for Brexit. Here’s some free advice, learn a bit about how the EU works in respect to national sovereignty.

  114. hackalumpoff says:

    @ R Peffers
    “Why ever would Scotland want to make itself a laughing stock?”
    We seem to manage at the FITBA.

  115. Tatu3 says:

    “Danish billionaires plan to rewild large swath of Scottish Highlands
    Scotland’s largest private landowners want to reverse years of land mismanagement, says adviser”

  116. manandboy says:

    I’m seriously scunnered after losing a comment due to battery failure. Mind you, it’s a good metaphor for Theresa May & her Tory Government, as their grip on power just gets weaker and weaker. But I at least can recharge, while they they on the other hand, are gonnae need a whole new phone before the electorate start using them again.

  117. ronnie anderson says:


    In this current climate a 8 yr old would have a better grasp of the politic lol.

  118. manandboy says:


    “Danish billionaires plan to rewild large swath of Scottish Highlands”

    Have they rich Danes no’ heard. Somebody should tell them to stick to Lego.

    The Independence Movement will have something to say about that.

  119. jfngw says:

    There you go, just when I thought Theresa May was possibly the worst manager I had ever seen, Alex Mcleish says ‘hold my pint’.

  120. ronnie anderson says:

    Cameron B Brodie I’ll gie U Mandeep’s phone number and you can discuss it more fully Best of luck lol.

  121. Vestas says:

    The revoke A50 petition currently has a backlog of ~5 hours (and counting) for emails with a link to confirm vote to be sent.

    The “is climate change still a thing” moron (Leadsom) says it doesn’t matter until the petition hits 17.4m.

    I doubt it will but it’ll hit 5m for sure. If it hits 10m then it’ll be “interesting”.

    Mixed feelings about that really as A50 revocation will mean the SNP leadership can (and will) continue to kick the indyref2 can down the road.

    I still stick with what I said to my (English) wife 18 months ago – it’ll be a no-deal & the English will blame the Irish & (optionally) the French/Germans for their own failings and utter incompetence. I see no reason to change my opinion.

    The only good thing which might come out of this quickly is a united Ireland as the moronic Tories chose zero tarrifs for a no-deal which kills most of the NI farming industry stone dead – in weeks.

    In terms of indyref2 – like many of you I’m wondering what more it’ll take for the SNP leadership to start the process. Alien invasion perhaps?

  122. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ll give it a go though this issue a bit of a red-hearing, IMHO, as there is no legal mechanism to force Scotland to join the currency union. Straight-up, I biased. My outlook is guided by the desire to protect Scotland’s social policy – spending on schools, social security, public health and stuff. Nations that control their currency have control over their social policy, nations who’s currency is run by the European Central Bank, not so much.

    As I said though, this is not a threat to Scotland, it is yoon smoke and mirrors.

  123. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    What Burley demonstrated is something we haven’t really got our heads around. We tend to think of the economic factor – the effect that Scottish natural resources have on those down south who are “in the know” but keep it well to themselves, while simultaneously pretending for public consumption that we are beggars at their fine table.

    But it’s different among ordinary people. Not all, of course. There are many who would prefer us to stay but honestly recognise that we are being abused. But there is another reaction, and it cuts right across the political spectrum. It is a feeling of hurt. They have extended to us a kind of “honorary Englishness” – not quite the real deal, but enough to grant access to their society more openly than to “proper foreigners”. We are somewhere in between. I guess it’s the same for the Welsh.

    So when we reject that status and want to be our own masters, they take personal offence. They feel it is a betrayal of their generosity. It is wounded amour propre. Because we are somewhat more than a mere colony, our potential departure really hurts. Particularly among those with little understanding and greatly inflated self-pride. Take a bow, Kate Burley. But she is far from alone. We saw it post-IR with the M&S wumman who declared that we were “English now”. C4 news and the Graun are full of it (with some honourable exceptions). Among other things, it results in the kind of ignoramus publicly talking over us, saying stuff we know is total nonsense.

    In my complaint to C4, I called it “anglosplaining”.

  124. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    Happy to oblige. I’ve been in touch with Ian B, who’ll oblige in passing on my gmail. 😉

  125. Gary45% says:

    Hold the front page,
    Brexiteers are asking the “empires finest” Uri Geller to do some of his psychic wonders to save the country.
    Expect the vision of a “BS kite-mark” 3 pin plug on your telly screen.
    Rub the 3 pin plug for Treeza, and save the nation.

    Obviously this is bollocks, but nothing would surprise me.

  126. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    The current situation with the Unionists is that of a person running around screaming, with their pants on their head, banging into walls.

    The action is generally known as panic.

    Some lower classes in Scotland identify the condition as “shiting oneself”

    The unionists in the know are aware the game is almost over, the previously daft Scots have now realised they were getting a very bad deal within the so called union.

    Some lower classes in Scotland identify the condition as “getting shafted”.

    The Scots are off with their substantial wealth and doing it before the Westminster regime privatise Scottish Water.

    Hence the very barely credible stories being produced by the Regime and its so called news outlets.

  127. Liz g says:

    While I know that Kay Burly was spouting British Nationalist propaganda (and well done again Rev for putting the spotlight on C4 and their lies)
    I thought it was a really good interview…. Ian Blackford got his points across with a calm dignity and held his ground when she threw the “mansplaning” curve… He didn’t rise to it or miss a beat!
    We all heard his word’s and the two woman came across as unable to cope with a politician who didn’t behave in the Westminster way…. Nicola does this all the time and it’s good to see that Scotland’s most senior Westminster Politician can too!!

  128. John Robertson says:

    Suberd demolition. A great service.

  129. Robert Peffers says:

    @Abulhaq says: 21 March, 2019 at 12:47 pm:

    ” … Why would iScotland not want to join the eurozone”

    Why would it want to, Abulhaq?

    Scotland has a perfectly good currency and has had it for at least 312 years. It is called the pound Sterling. Scotland even has distinctive Scottish banknotes and Scotland owns part of a central bank. It is called the Bank of England but strangely enough it has never actually belonged to the country of England.

    Want to argue the facts, Abulhaq? Here is a wee bit of extra information for you. When Professor Gavin McCrone handed his report to the Westminster parliament it was the simple fact that Scotland had a share in the Bank of England and as much right to the Pound Sterling as England had that scared the shit out of Westminster.

    You see an independent Scotland with 89% of the United Kingdom’s oil & gas reserves and using the Pound Sterling would see the Scots pound become so hard while England’s pound would fall and England become economically unsound.

    That’s why they hid the McCrone report away for decades. and it is why they both then and now circulate all this propaganda lies about the currency, The Bank of England and Scotland having to NOT use the pound and be forced to use the Euro.

  130. Giving Goose says:

    McLeish is a man who doesn’t believe that Scotland should be a nation.

    How can he be expected to manage Scotland’s men’s football team when he couldn’t give a shit about Scotland?

  131. Bibbit Blair says:

    Goodness! Reading the wiki page on Burley she really is a nasty piece of work.

  132. HandandShrimp says:

    I’m not sure we have a men’s football team anymore. That is a shocker of a result. Why we got rid of Strachan I’m not sure. We had some good performances under his spell.

  133. HandandShrimp says:

    On a plus note there is a distinct smell of overcooked gammon on the BBC HYS over the petition which I see is up around 1.15m

  134. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Peffers @ 16:17:

    If putting noses out of joint is your aim then a far, far better way of doing so is to continue to use our own currency, THE POUND STERLING, and tying it to the English Pound Sterling.


    It would be laughable if a hard Scottish pound forced England to adopt the Euro to save the pound English.

    I fear you have an inherent contradiction of thought here, RP. By tying a Scots currency (of whatever name) to an English pound, we would have no direct control whatever over its exchange rate, only some indirect influence – for better or ill – through its pervasive employ in our economy. It was partly the fear of the potential drag of an “impoverished Scottish economy” on a shared Pound Sterling that lay behind the rejection propaganda of the proposed currency union. Which worked here at home, even though folk like you or I are confident that the Scots economy would actually prosper under full self-management.

    The only purpose of a short-term continued use of the existing Pound Sterling is essentially political: to ease the transition into independence for ordinary people, both practically and psychologically. It’s not a viable or helpful strategy even into the medium term, because it severely constricts our options, as any economist can tell you.

    You can only have a “hard” pound to compare against a “soft” pound if the two currencies are entirely independent, and managed separately. That’s a comparison I for one would be very happy to contemplate.

  135. Mansplaining,

    `the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.`


    `the explanation of something by an anglo journalist,typically to a Scot, in a manner regarded as condesending or patronizing.`

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    @David S. Briggs says: 21 March, 2019 at 2:08 pm:

    ” … Why would the UK be exempt from joining the Euro? because they didn’t have to and neither would Scotland.”

    Well that’s not quite true, David. To be fair the United Kingdom have a written negotiated exemption. However, here’s the other mistake you are making. Scotland is one of the only two partner kingdoms that comprise the United Kingdom. As such we have as much right to claim that written exemption as the Kingdom of England has.

    The point is that, and you are not alone, people, including indy supporters, tend to look at things as if it is Scotland against the United Kingdom when Scotland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as the Kingdom of England is.

    This is the attitude they want you to adopt. For example Scotland isn’t leaving the United Kingdom. It is a two kingdom partnership so if Scotland goes independent Scotland isn’t leaving the United Kingdom Scotland is disuniting the United Kingdom. That is Scotland is ending the United Kingdom.

    That is why they foster the myths they do. If Scotland was actually leaving the United Kingdom there would still be a United Kingdom so they push the idea of an rUnited Kingdom and the idea that this fictitious rUK owns everything. Like the Pound Sterling that they tell you they wouldn’t let you use.

    But Scotland is a full partner in the United Kingdom so Scotland owns part of the Bank of England, (nationalised by the United Kingdom – not by England alone and the pound is as much Scottish as it is English.

    Unfortunately far too many Scots have fallen for their propaganda.

  137. Nana says:


    Brexit latest

    “The mood has hardened here in Brussels” @tconnellyRTE with the latest on #Brexit |

    1/ @GuitarMoog explains the negotiating options left for May’s government. ‘The UK can revoke Article 50. There is a petition that went live yesterday that in 24 hours has nearly a million signatures.’ @GuitarMoog’s full interview with @SkyNews.

  138. mr thms says:

    A shared currency would benefit Scotland and England. It is only because of oil production that sterling has not crashed. Production contributes 3%-4% to UK GDP. Not to mention the £30 billion raised in fuel duty. With the UK out of the EU, should Scotland leave the ‘Union’, the Chancellor (at the time) would want to do a deal..

  139. Nana says:


    BREAKING: UK military has activated team in a nuclear bunker under the @DefenceHQ main building to step up preparations for a no-deal Brexit, @SkyNews can reveal. The crisis management operation – dubbed Operation #REDFOLD – began on Monday 1/

  140. mike cassidy says:


    Looks like Police Scotland, at least, are taking seriously threats of violence against women who oppose the misogynistic, transgender selfidentifiers.

  141. mike cassidy says:

    Even if the Evening Telegraph chickened out of reporting the story clearly!

  142. Cubby says:

    Scott Finlayson@ 6.07pm

    Anglosplaining – brilliant.

    My own additional suggestion is Britnatsplaining: to explain something by lying to a Scot in a condescending or patronising manner.

  143. Nana says:

    Live thread from Peston

    the words of one well-placed source here in Brussels, they know her deal is already dead.

    that @theresa_may is being ordered not to promise any concession to Northern Ireland’s DUP that impairs the impact in any meaningful way of the backstop loathed by DUP and Tory ERG MPs. EU leaders are not making it any easier for her to win that crucial meaningful vote. In…

  144. CameronB Brodie says:

    OK, I’m on topic this time. By the way, there’s been over three centuries to sort out a proper system of government in the UK, one that enables pluralism and a respect for inalienable human rights. There’s just no will though as the current set-up suites the Establishment quite well.

    Institutionalized Resistance to Organizational Change: Denial, Inaction and Repression


    An extensive theoretical and research literature on organizational change and its implementation has been accumulating over the past fifty years. It is customary in this literature to find resistance to change mentioned as an inevitable consequence of organizational change initiatives. Yet there has been little discussion of the nature and forms of resistance that is institutionalized in organizational structure and processes.

    Furthermore, organization development perspectives on organizational change address management-initiated change, but not change proposed by advocates for the powerless and disadvantaged. Focussing on institutionalized resistance from the standpoint of the advocate of fundamental change, this discussion proposes a typology consisting of a sequence of forms of active resistance to change, from denial through inaction to repression.

    The typology is illustrated by referring to responses of organizational decision makers to the efforts of employment equity change agents to address issues of systemic discrimination in the work place. The purpose of the typology is to assist change advocates, such as equality seekers, to name, analyze and think strategically about the institutionalized resistance they encounter, and about effective responses to the resistance.

    backlash. change agent, organization development (OD), organizational change, resistance to change, systemic discrimination in employment


    Resistance Redux

    Kierkegaard’s Quest: How Not to Stop Seducing

  145. ronnie anderson says:

    Why is Corbyn in Brussels , what can he possibly be negotiating he has no cohesive policy on Brexit

  146. HandandShrimp says:

    Well unless the nerve of MPs fail (always possible) May looks like her coat is on a shoogly peg and we will be in a no deal Indyref2 game (unless May has all SNP members arrested…always possible with her).

  147. mike cassidy says:

    Here’s a classic example of anglocentric thinking.

    Not even a glimmer of recognition that there are distinct NHS setups in ‘Britain’.

    The winger in me wants to think this is English NHS based research.

    But even if it is not, the need to differentiate would surely provide an extra dimension to that research.

  148. ronnie anderson says:

    Bbc catching up on the Lifebelts on the Clyde story ( no ropes ) 1st Highlighted by Kevin Gibney Livestream

    Well done Kevin .

  149. galamcennalath says:

    ANGLOSPLAINING © Scot Finlayson

    Brilliant! We have to get that word established and in common usage 🙂

  150. SilverDarling says:

    So sick of this. I had a look at the writer’s twitter (@lee_georgina) and she obviously has come late to the party with her ‘hot-take’ on Indy Scotland and the Euro.

    Much to the Unionists’ glee, she is doubling down and boy does she think she is right, not even a glimmer of admission there could be another interpretation.

    The criticism is fairly kind for now but it is frustrating how these arguments have to be made again and again.

  151. yesindyref2 says:

    Usual set piece tag team between Harvie and Sturgeon at FMQ

    Keeps most of us happy, and makes the unionists froth in their Belgian beers.

    Won’t be long now.

  152. galamcennalath says:

    The Revoke Article 50 petition is over 1.3million. Imagine what it would have been if it wasn’t down half of the time!

  153. mike cassidy says:


    That would be perfect!

  154. galamcennalath says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:


    … alas, a quick google shows references back in 2016.

    However, I still think it’s a brilliant word and very apt for the London centric drivel that passes down there for understanding and knowledge.

  155. Cactus says:

    Reactive update (circa March ’19):

    – First they ignore Scotland
    – Then they laugh at Scotland
    – Then they try to fight us
    – Then we laugh at them
    Then they fight each other
    – Then we laugh at them again
    – Then iScotland wins

    The seven steps to freedom.

  156. yesindyref2 says:

    To be a little controversial, you only have to look at the pinned year-old tweet on the authoress’s timeline to see what the problem is likely to be.

    1). Female uses the word “mansplaining” to allege sexism where it doesn’t exist
    2). Female automatically leaps to the defence of other female when attacked

    Years, decades, centuries, millennia of sexism and discrimination against females, don’t make it right to do it the other way around – nor to bend the truth to fit the circumstance.

    Perhaps they should learn from the females posting on Wings, most of whom you really don’t want to tangle with – unless you’re in the right of course.

  157. Craig P says:

    All these No to Yes testimonies. Keeps the spirits up but nothing more I thought. And then tonight I met one of the most vocal anti-independence, separation is racist, Alex Salmond with two devil horns people I ever knew. And he is Yes now.

    Thank you, Theresa May.

    The UK is fucked.

  158. galamcennalath says:

    Wall Street Journal tells it like it is … (behind paywall) ….

    European leaders are moving toward granting British Prime Minister Theresa May a seven-week postponement of the Brexit deadline but warned her that the U.K. risks crashing out of the European Union on Friday of next week if her divorce deal isn’t approved by Parliament by then.”

    Clear and to the point. The fact that most UK media appear unwilling to present reality in such stark terms, shows the extent to which they are playing along to Tory Gov agenda and narrative.

  159. Breeks says:

    How good is Kazakhstan at organising referenda?

  160. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 19:26:

    alas, a quick google shows references back in 2016

    Well, that’s me put in my place! =grin=

    But I do agree, a meme whose time has definitely come.

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    mike cassidy
    Just of the top of my head, ethnography tends to be written by the dominant culture, so it should not be any surprise that British ethnography can often view the world from a “One Nation” perspective. Not that I’m questioning the research, I’ve not taken a proper look at it. I’m simply pointing to institutional cultural bias as a possible reason for the culturally insensitive tone of the study. It’s appears as if Britain is one nation, when clearly Scotland and England have different views and experiences of migration, both emigration and immigration.

    Aspiration, desire and drivers of migration

    Introducing movements
    Journal for Critical Migration and Border Studies

    Introduction: Migration studies and critical temporalities

    Introducing Critical Perspectives on Migration

  162. Dr Jim says:

    This Independence thing is in the bag, guaranteed, a stick on certainty, won by a mile before we even get started, and you know how I know

    Unionists only believe in voting once in their lifetime and that’s it over, they voted NO in 2014 and as far as they’re concerned they’re not voting again, they meant it you know

  163. ben madigan says:

    @ Robert J Sutherland who said ” So when we reject that status and want to be our own masters, they take personal offence. They feel it is a betrayal of their generosity. It is wounded amour propre. Because we are somewhat more than a mere colony, our potential departure really hurts”.

    I think that is a true insight Robert. If we think of a former UK colony like India, Nigeria or Kenya – we know they were never permited to have 1 MP at Westminster

    Indeed that was the basis for the American Revolution “No taxation without representation”

    Ireland, Scotland and Wales were “members of the family”. King George V was apparently very upset at the idea of Ireland’s Independence “Why do the want to leave the family?” he wailed.

  164. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Wouldn’t it be bra’ if Rev Stu commissioned an opinion poll, including the “independence” question, during the 2019 WOS fundraiser?

    The speed of fundraising would surely be reported by the National (and others) and then, on the back of that, the poll results?

    Could be ‘interesting times’…

  165. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Craig P @ 19:32,

    Yes, and tip-of-the-iceberg effect, what that also implies is that there are now a lot of latent former no-voters who have become receptive and open to conversion. (And they don’t show up in the polls.)

    We need to capitalise on this unique opportunity and make a move soon, before Brexit becomes established and normalised.

  166. Phil says:

    Robert Peffers says: 21 March, 2019 at 5:24 pm

    “@Abulhaq says: 21 March, 2019 at 12:47 pm:

    ” … Why would iScotland not want to join the eurozone”

    Why would it want to, Abulhaq?”

    In addition to the oft recounted reasons to use iScotland’s own currency (usually meaning Sterling and NOT the Euro) there is, I believe, the overriding reason which allows the new iScotland to manage its own currency in all respects. Taxation, money supply, government expenditure, inflation targets, foreign exchange rates and all the normal aspects of a national exchequer.

    Sterlingisation I believe will be shown to be limiting for iScotland. Its own currency would be better (the MERK ?).

    Currency sharing would be too limiting. iScotland will likely have currency hurdles to overcome in the coming early days. iScotland will start up with a functioning successful economy, tax base, tax system and a population literate in the basics of working in a successful economy.

    iScotland will quickly build up the financial resources a central bank needs to exercise appropriate controls like money creation / money extinguishing targets and mechanisms and regulatory frameworks. The only question from this vantage point today is the likely speed of achieving these. External conditions may accelerate or inhibit but will not prevent success in the new financial sphere.

    Experience shows this is all a difficult set of concepts to explain on the doorstep. Suffice to say the resources iScotland starts off with (population, land, materials, infrastructure, education, law, government) makes complete independence very attractive and very likely to be turned into a small successful nation in not too long a time.

  167. galamcennalath says:

    A timely reminder of what the loony right not only believes, but intends to achieve …

    ” To restore Britain’s competitiveness we must begin by deregulating the labour market. Political objections must be overridden. It is too difficult to hire and fire and too expensive to take on new employees. “ – Liam Fox, 2012

  168. Nana says:


    One EU diplomat has conceded the unity of the EU27 has started to disintegrate for the first time in the Brexit negotiations

  169. Davie Oga says:

    Joining the ERM is voluntary but lying about Scotland in the British media is compulsory.

  170. Jock McDonnell says:

    How hard can it be, what’s the delay, the brits are on their knees begging. The decision is easy, come on EU, put the boot in.

  171. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says:21 March, 2019 at 6:03 pm:

    ” … I fear you have an inherent contradiction of thought here, RP. By tying a Scots currency (of whatever name) to an English pound, we would have no direct control whatever over its exchange rate”

    Now where did you derive that particular idea, Robert?

    The Bank of England never has belonged to an English Government. It was a private company and is still actually called, “The Governor and Company of the Bank of England”, It remained private right up until 1946.

    At which point it was nationalised. Not by the Government of England but by the Government of the two partner United Kingdom. So Scotland owns a negotiable part of the Bank of England and obviously would have seats on the board.

    ” … It was partly the fear of the potential drag of an “impoverished Scottish economy” on a shared Pound Sterling that lay behind the rejection propaganda of the proposed currency union.”

    Nope! It was nothing of the sort. That was what they wanted you to believe – and obviously you did. It goes way back long before that, (as I’ve posted several times over the last couple of days).

    Here, just for you, is the real reason. When Professor Gavin McCrone was commissioned by the Westminster establishment to investigate the effects of the discovery of Oil & Gas reserves in mainly Scottish waters his, “McCrone Report”, caused panic in the Westminster Establishment. If you have read the report you will know just why.

    I’m not about to start trawling through it for cut & paste references. Do your own research. The report stated that not only would the oil & gas reserves encourage Scot’s to seek independence but if they got control of Scotland’s oil & gas in an independent Scotland it would lead to the Scottish currency hardening against the English Currency which would obviously suffer. This was why the report was marked Top Secret and buried for decades.

    Now as to Exchange Rates here is a definition:-

    “A country’s terms of trade improves if its exports prices rise at a greater rate than its imports prices. This results in higher revenue, which causes a higher demand for the country’s currency and an increase in its currency’s value. This results in an appreciation of exchange rate”

    ” … Which worked here at home, even though folk like you or I are confident that the Scots economy would actually prosper under full self-management.

    Aye! And folk like the Westminster Establishment shit themselves when they realised that if Scotland got the Oil & Gas revenues they would not be going to England and that on top of the stone cold fact that while Scotland is a net exporter – England is a net importer.

    There is no doubt whatsoever that a Scottish Pound Sterling would rise in value and an English Pound Sterling tied to it would sink out of site. As McCrone said in his report, “to the embarrassment of England”. Now get this – that fact is even more so today than when McCrone write his report.

    Just this week it was reported here on Wings that the Scottish economy was outperforming the UK/England economy and that is without oil & Gas revenues nor the several other nice little earners Westminster has at Scotland’s expense – like the National Grid Connection Charges for example.

  172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Phillipe Lambert MEP on CNN just now suggesting a short unconditional extension to allow the UKGov to come up with an entirely new strategy, one which would unblock the ongoing impasse via a PV or GE and which would require a further extension to implement, if mutually agreed.

    But also thinking that no-deal was a distinct possibility instead.

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    Without getting too technical, as I’d be out of my depth pretty quickly, Europe’s economy is not suited to a single currency, IMHO, as the group still presents too many regional disparities in economic performance.

    The European economy still runs at different speeds due to localised structural and location-al advantages/disadvantages for economic development. The European spatial planning policy aims at ameliorating the resulting adverse effects of this, largely through structural funds, particularly in peripheral regions* such as Scotland. There was a transport plan associated with this, which included HS2. However, the clown-shoes approach to joined-up government that Westminster prefers, means that the European spatial policy will now undermine Scotland’s economy.

    * don’t get triggered. 😉

  174. ian stewart says:

    Whats wrong with the Euro anyway ? As good a currency as any. The fact the ultra Europhobes hate it is as good a reason as any to join.

  175. yesindyref2 says:

    If the UK leaves the EU it will be forced to adopt the dollar.

    Fox and Gove will take it into the twilight zone.

    Membership of DERM is compulsory!

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    ian stewart
    National governments have no input to the control over the Euro, that’s how the ECB was designed. No control over currency means no control over social policy. So I suppose it really depends on what you think should be the purpose of the economy.

  177. Street Andrew says:

    If the Brexit mad dogs get their way we’ll all be using the US Dollar anyway.

    Or bartering vegetables.

    We need to revoke Article 50 and put the UK House in order.(Grant England its independence)

    The madness has gone too far already.

    Over one million signatures last time I could get onto the site. It keeps crashing.

  178. Phil says:

    ian stewart says: 21 March, 2019 at 8:17 pm

    “Whats wrong with the Euro anyway ? As good a currency as any.”

    iScotland using a currency it did not control with its own central bank and taxation system removes useful levers from the government’s arsenal of controls.

    Walking about France or Spain there seems, as you say, not much wrong with the Euro. It buys beer.

  179. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Peffers @ 20:08:

    Now where did you derive that particular idea, Robert?

    Directly from what you wrote, in the two parts of the text I quoted. You can’t simultaneously have a shared/linked currency, however effected, and also two currencies that observably compete. I would have thought that was fairly self-evident.

    The only thing that can be said for a separate administration (provisionally) using someone else’s currency, as the SNP are now clearly intending to propose, is that all the economic facts of life then become fully transparent, which is a giant leap forward compared to the notorious GERS, if that is what you mean.

    But that still hampers economic growth. Significant fiscal autonomy and the full power to regulate your own economy only comes via your own currency. That’s flatly indisputable.

  180. galamcennalath says:

    ” Brexit Crisis: Scotland didn’t vote for this Prime Minister, didn’t vote for her party, didn’t vote for Brexit and didn’t vote for this crisis. It’s time for Scottish independence. “

    Our time has come, almost !

  181. Thepnr says:

    You really might all want to be tuning in to the press conference by Tusk and Juncker that was supposed to satrt as 18:00 tonight and still hasen’t started.

    The latest is this is because the EU27 have had trouble agreeing on a final chice of words to what they are prepared to offer but according to Peston it is not looking good for May.

    “The Brexit postponement plan being discussed here in Brussels – for hours longer than expected – has the potential to tear apart the government and Tory party, and Labour too. Because its explicit proviso that the UK has to decide by 11 April whether to participate in May’s elections to the European parliament, or else leave the EU on 7 May, WITH OR WITHOUT A DEAL, sets up the debate in parliament @theresa_may was desperate to avoid. It tells MPs of all parties they have 20 days to decide whether to opt for a long Brexit delay, a delay that…”

  182. PacMan says:

    The way things are going, these Scottish Tories and their ‘whats in it for me’ followers may want their big pensions converted into Euros rather than GPB so it doesn’t deprecate in the near future.

  183. Thepnr says:

    Link to the press conference when it eventually does start.!wW84jW

  184. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the joint TUC/CBI statement on a no-deal Brexit, “The shock to our economy would be felt for generations to come”.

    No deal is only marginally less bad than May’s deal. Brexit will hurt generations yet to be born. That’s how Tories deal with social and inter-generational ethics. Very poorly, if at all.

  185. Capella says:

    @ Thepnr – the webcast is due to start at 22:30 CET which is 9:30 pm here.

  186. CameronB Brodie says:

    No deal marginally worse….., of course. It’s a confusing time.

  187. Phil says:

    PacMan says: 21 March, 2019 at 8:33 pm

    “The way things are going, these Scottish Tories and their ‘whats in it for me’ followers may want their big pensions converted into Euros rather than GPB so it doesn’t deprecate in the near future.”

    And was Gavin McCrone all that wrong all those years ago? When everything has turned out even better than he predicted it could?

    A government in charge of its own currency and a country with the attributes of iScotland will see its currency fall? How much? Not much I’d bet. Because if I have any cash in hand it will be in a Scottish bank before a Euro one.

  188. call me dave says:

    EU dinner and talks still ongoing hours late.
    Not reached the nuts and cheese yet.

    Caught up on FMQs because I missed Wee Wullie… Jings!

    Berating the PM and demanding a PV then in the same breath howling at the FM for hinting at an Independence vote how dare there be an Indi2. 🙂 A soul in torment.

  189. Gregory Beekman says:

    Does Channel 4 actually cover Scottish news? It’s the same as Sky, does nothing for Scotland.

    You’d think they’d at least cover FMQs on a Thursday.

    And why does the BBC’s coverage of PMQs on a Wednesday last 1h45m but of FMQs on a Thursady just 1h?

    It’s time Westminster enacted legislation to force news broadcasters to reflect devolution and more fairly represent the nations within the UK.

  190. HandandShrimp says:

    Petition site pretty winky tonight.

  191. Gregory Beekman says:

    And what’s with this £32 million for the new BBC Scotland channel? Aye, right – that’s all NEW money?

    They killed off BBC2 Scotland but didn’t really advertise that’s what they were doing. It was only when I retuned and didn’t get BBC2 Scotland that I googled and found it was now dead.

    So just how much of the £32 million was already being spent on BBC2 Scotland and how much of it represents new cash?

  192. Thepnr says:


    Cheers 25 mins to go then, will be worth tuning in I’d have thought 🙂

  193. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    CameronB Brodie @ 20:14:

    Europe’s economy is not suited to a single currency, IMHO, as the group still presents too many regional disparities in economic performance.

    The problem with the euro is that it was attempting to achieve political ends through economic means, whereas it should have been the other way round.

    As an American prophetically mentioned to me at the time of its introduction (the US of course has enormous regional disparities of its own, yet manages), the eurozone has limited mechanisms for wealth transfer to compensate for its “one size fits all” policy, and that is essential. Instead it relies on crude convergence. This works for the wealthier countries but certainly not for the ones with inherent endemic problems of mismanagement. Greece should never have been allowed anywhere near the euro, for example.

    Not the ECB’s fault in the first place. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having a central bank whose sole job is to maintain the integrity if tthe currency, free from typical short-termist political meddling for dubious motives.

    It’s a tricky political situation. Germans (for example) don’t see any reason to “subsidise” countries with shoddy and corrupt practices, but without that wealth transfer – and essential concomitant due diligence – it all just bumbles clumsily along.

    It’s not all baaaad though. Despite what I wrote in response to RP above, there can be advantages in pooling financial sovereignty over a significant breadth of countries. Financial stability for one thing, especially with petro-economies like Scotland. And as Phil hinted at upthread, it has significant personal advantages in moving around the eurozone, free bank transfers and all.

  194. Capella says:

    @ Thepnr – there are tweets galore but they all say something different so until Donald Tusk or Jean Claude Juncker have spoken we haven’t a scooby what is going to happen.

    May is apparently not at the dinner so is she pacing about in a hotel room waiting for her fate to be decided?

    What a state of affairs! 🙂

  195. HandandShrimp says:


    May doesn’t eat she will hanging upside down from her hotel rafters awaiting the result.

  196. Never understood the Yes supporting culturati wanting Channel 4 to plonk their fat Unionist arses up here in Scotland,

    anyhoo,talking of yoons,

    BBCQT from Northern Ireland,wonder what they might talk about 🙂

  197. Bill McDermott says:

    Anent the comments on rich Danes buying up the Highlands, it is a fact that to buy land in Denmark you need to fulfil residency qualification. This is long standing and was enacted to counter the pressure from rich West Germans, as were, to stop coming across the border to buy up property.

  198. Thepnr says:


    May doesn’t eat she will hanging upside down from her hotel rafters awaiting the result.

    Hahahaha my favourite post of the day 🙂

  199. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil says: 21 March, 2019 at 7:49 pm:

    ” … Sterlingisation I believe will be shown to be limiting for iScotland.”

    Oh! Fir heaven’s sake, “Sterlingisation”? What The hell is that supposed to even mean? How can you, “Sterlinise”, a country/kingdom that has been, “Sterlinised”, since at least 1 May 1707?

    In point of fact Robert Bruce paid the Kingdom of England in Sterling in the Edinburgh-Northampton treaty:-

    “The Treaty of Edinburgh–Northampton was a peace treaty, signed in 1328 between the Kingdoms of England and Scotland. It brought an end to the First War of Scottish Independence, which had begun with the English invasion of Scotland in 1296. The treaty was signed in Edinburgh by Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland, on 17 March 1328, and was ratified by the English Parliament at Northampton on 1 May. The document was written in French, and is held by the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh.

    The terms of the treaty stipulated that, in exchange for £100,000 sterling, the English Crown would recognise:-

    1 The Kingdom of Scotland as fully independent;

    2 – Robert the Bruce, and his heirs and successors, as the rightful rulers of Scotland.

    3 – The border between Scotland and England as that recognised under the reign of Alexander III (1249–1286).

    The Treaty of Union agrees both kingdoms should use the same currency. It is every bit as much Scotland’s currency as it is England’s.

    In any event there are, for example many countries that use the Dollar. These include Canada and the USA. They have never had any problems. Border towns use both without problems. The thing is they can, or cannot tie their currencies or let them freely differ.

    ” … Its own currency would be better (the MERK ?).
    Currency sharing would be too limiting.”<Sheesh! The pound is Scotland's own currency and what is more it is distinctly different from bank of England currency but furthermore Scotland owns part of the so called Bank of England. As Scotland owns part of the BofE Scotland could obviously have seats on the board.

    Not to mention that the Westminster Parliament IS NOT the Parliament of England but the Parliament of the two partner United Kingdom and when Scotland takes her independence it means that there is no more United Kingdom. There cannot be a United Kingdom with only one Kingdom.

    ” … iScotland will likely have currency hurdles to overcome in the coming early days.”

    Not nearly so many as will the Kingdom of England. For starters the English Pound will plummet and the Scots pound will soar.

    That is what Gavin McCrone wrote in his report all those years age that had the Westminster Establishment in abject terror. Which is why they marked the McCrone Report, Top Secter and buried it for decades in a Westminster cellar. Go read the bloody document. It sure as hell shoots your airy fairy theories right out of the water.

    ” … Suffice to say the resources iScotland starts off with (population, land, materials, infrastructure, education, law, government) makes complete independence very attractive and very likely to be turned into a small successful nation in not too long a time.”

    Nah! It will be instant. There was comments this week on Wings that the Scottish economy was outperforming that of the UK/England. Yet those figures are bent. In the first place all oil & gas Revenue is classed by the UK as being from, “Extra-Regio Territory but up to 98% is identifiable, (go look at the definition of “Extra-Regio”), as from Scottish territorial waters. That would instantly become Scottish revenue and cease to be English revenue, (there cannot be a United Kingdom when there is only one kingdom).

    Then there is the National Grid Connection Charge scam. That would stop and Scotland would claim back, (by increased prices), the 25% electricity we export to England. Go check hat one out too. What of the Scottish Crown Estate profits that Westminster moved from Edinburgh and lobbed into the English Crown Estates?

    Meanwhile the Scottish pound would be hardening against the English pound and as the Scots pound soared the English pound would drop. Make no mistake – after independence Scotland would have the whip hand. Remember that Scotland is a net exporter while England is a net importer – what does that do for exchange rates?

  200. Capella says:

    @ Manandboy – the article you linked to about the Povlsens highland estates actually describes a very enlightened approach to land management. The Guardian’s Severin Carrell picked out one of the most forward thinking landowners. Probably for a reason i.e. to help oppose the Land Commission proposals.

  201. Maria F says:

    “How can you, “Sterlinise”, a country/kingdom that has been, “Sterlinised”, since at least 1 May 1707?”

    I would add to that Robert that it is rather hilarious that if you look at the English notes and the Scottish ones, actually the only ones that claim to be “Sterling” are the Scottish ones!!!! So I think Scotland should claim the Sterling pound and England can keep its English pound with the face of the monarch of the day wearing the English crown in its notes.

  202. Robert Peffers says:

    @Street Andrew says:21 March, 2019 at 8:22 pm:

    ” … If the Brexit mad dogs get their way we’ll all be using the US Dollar anyway.
    Or bartering vegetables.”

    More likely bartering Grannys.

  203. Petra says:

    @ CameronB Brodie says at 8:36 pm …. ”re. the joint TUC/CBI statement on a no-deal Brexit, “The shock to our economy would be felt for generations to come”….

    These two females, Carolyn Fairbairn Director-General of the CBI and Frances O’Grady the General Secretary of the TUC, were interviewed on Channel 4 tonight with Jon Snow saying that it was just amazing to see them together.

    No Deal Brexit has been on the cards since at least January 2017 .. ”No Deal is better than a Bad Deal”, .. so why on earth have they waited for over 2 years to open their mouths and warn us all that the UK is now facing a ‘national emergency’ over a No-Deal Brexit?

    In fact where have the Unions been over the last few years? Not a dicky-bird from them. Oh, I forgot too busy focusing on creating havoc in Scotland. With Independence they’ll be getting kicked out of Scotland along with the BBC.


    Not long to go now, folks. From Tatu3 at 4:36pm.

  204. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Peffers @ 21:23,

    I’m finding it hard to break through all your historical verbiage to penetrate to the essence of what you are thinking, RP, but with your continuing emphasis on differentiated Scottish and English currencies, all you really seem to be saying is that we should retain the name “pound” for ours!

    (Oh, and getting our fair share of the current reserves in the BoE to set ours up, one presumes.)

    As for keeping the name, I’m with Phil on this one. No more cringe, let’s return to tradition and go for the “merk”. I would have thought that you of all people would approve.

    Just not right away, though, to ease people tthrough the transition. Thar seems to be SNP thinking, and suits me fine. For starters, anyway.

  205. Dr Jim says:

    Steve Rodgers the finance Bloomberg money genius guy says post Brexit the £ will drop to the level of the $, Scotland will take its Independence and its oil and England will have nothing to sell so who would want to do deals with them anyway, it’d be Scotland people would be looking at

  206. Thepnr says:

    Looks like 12th April is the “no more messing us about” date.

    We either agree to take part in the EU elections by that date or the UK will be out of the EU. I don’t think they’re kidding either, so parliament have a final 3 weeks to make it’s mind up. I doubt there will be any further concessions this is the end of the line.

  207. Capella says:

    Well the delayed press conference from Brussels seems to have been delayed. Still, it’s only 10:45 in Brussels.!wW84jW

  208. Petra says:

    @ Capella says at 9:17 pm …. ”May is apparently not at the dinner so is she pacing about in a hotel room waiting for her fate to be decided? What a state of affairs! ?”

    More than likely she’s been picked up, carted off and sectioned due to being a threat to herself and more so the general public. If not she should be.

  209. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 21:44,

    Current rumour on CNN is that a failure of HoC to agree next week would trigger a further conditional extension, to avoid a no-deal exit.

    Ho hum…

  210. jfngw says:

    Scotland management team say ‘we started off well’, I can only presume he thinks the rendition of Flower of Scotland was one of the best of any Scotland team. Unfortunately it was downhill from there.

  211. Capella says:

    BBC now reporting that the Brussels talking could go on for hours yet. Seems they are assuming May’s deal will not pass and as she didn’t come along with a Plan B then the 27 are now deciding what Plan B might be.

    Everybody scream aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhh

  212. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says: 21 March, 2019 at 8:29 pm:

    ” … Now where did you derive that particular idea, Robert?
    Directly from what you wrote, in the two parts of the text I quoted. You can’t simultaneously have a shared/linked currency, however effected, and also two currencies that observably compete.”

    Well if it read like that it wasn’t my intention. What was is that Scotland had choices and whichever was chosen Scotland were in command. If the currencies were tied there would be Scots on the central bank board as the bank is partly Scottish.

    If not tied the Scots pound would be the stronger but although an over strong currency is not all good it is far better than one that is falling. Norway has to keep buying Euros to prevent overheating.

    On the other hand if tied to the English Pound the Scots would still be strong as, owning part of the BofE they would have Scots on the board or the English would have to buy out Scotland’s share. Not to mention that the BofE holds special large denomination notes to the value of the current Scottish Banknotes in circulation but it is in a deposit account that the Scots banks could redeem.

  213. Petra says:

    @ Robert J. Sutherland says at 9:42 pm …. ”As for keeping the name, I’m with Phil on this one. No more cringe, let’s return to tradition and go for the “merk”. I would have thought that you of all people would approve.”…

    I don’t see many Scots being impressed with that, Robert. I can just see it, hear it now, .. ”the jerks or the berks with the merks.”

  214. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    Current rumour on CNN is that a failure of HoC to agree next week would trigger a further conditional extension, to avoid a no-deal exit.

    I believe they are probably right, all that is happening now seems to be they are giving the UK until the 12th of April to seek that longer extension which no doubt will have to be accompanied by a good enough reason for them to grant one.

    I think May is likely to be gone by then, that alone is probably a good enough reason to allow a longer extension.

  215. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Petra@ 21:57,

    Yes, fodder for BritNat propagandists. Which is precisely why I was not advocating any name change now, to avoid any such needles distractions. But after independence when we have reached the financial and emotional maturity to set up our own currency, the more differentiation the better, I would say.

    But I’m sure that post-indy we will all argue about that and many other inessentials anyway! =laugh=

  216. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    me @ 22:06,

    “needless”, not “needles”. Duh.

  217. handclapping says:

    My choice is the Thistle so we get the 3 letter code SCT for it like the GBP for sterling except that will have to change to probably ENP. The other thing about the Thistle is we should set it off at SCT1 = GBP10 ot a Thistles a tenner and have it divided into thousands or mils so SCT0.001 = GBP0.01 or a mil is a p for an easy start to using the new currency

    Having such a large unit is deliberate as the real value of the GBP will plummet on the division and we really do not want to end up with a currency that is only worth 50 EUR cents which is probably where the GBP will end up before we manage to disentangle ourselves

  218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 10:03,

    Yes. Even now still “extremely fluid”, it seems. But it looks like the EU27 has effectively decided that after next week May is toast.

    Who then…?

  219. John MacRae says:

    OK, what am I not getting?

    Why all the anguish over the name for the Scottish currency?
    What is wrong with ‘The Pound Scots’ (or Scotch, as in whiskey, beef or tomatoes) ?
    We already have all the infrastructure do we not?
    Not to mention the coins and banknotes already in circulation.

    As previously stated, our banknotes are sufficiently different from the English version to prevent any confusion.

    If I am just havering, (totally possible I concur) show me why and I shall sleep sounder from now onward with one less nagging thought.

  220. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    UK is now facing a ‘national emergency’ over a No-Deal Brexit says the British Nationalist Media tonight (full on use of Nuclear Bunker as Command Post and everything!)

    Wait out for calls for a:

    Government of ‘National Unity’

    SNP ignored/marginalised if indeed considered at all (as this will be a Government for One Nation Britain aka England).

    and a

    ‘State of Emergency’

    With all that entails, (possibility of Holyrood closed and direct rule imposed from London).

  221. Thepnr says:

    Tusk about to break the news of the EU’s decision to May presumably before starting the press conference.

  222. Phil says:

    Robert Peffers says: @21 March at 9:23pm

    Which I would think accords with what you and like minded others write. Eg., meaning of what McCrone wrote. How else can we know anything about his memorandum other than by buying The National and reading it / saving it to our HDD.

    Sterlingisation is discussed all over and is a concept used over decades by countries, one such being Panama Dollarising its economy for many years. My dislike in that case is distrust of the currency partner. Similarly Sterling sharing with England. Why should Scotland trust England as a currency partner? Not when Scotland on its own is very able to be a flourishing trading partner to many countries. Why rely on a 10 times larger currency partner (England) to honourably cooperate?

    Is that an airy fairy notion? Plead guilty I guess.

    Maria F: @9:33

    As for the beauty of our banknotes; no question. But what is of most importance is the trust in our currency international markets display in their willingness to trade, lend and borrow. The signs I would say have been that Scotland is held in good esteem. Nicola’s team ought to ensure that is enhanced worldwide.

  223. call me dave says:

    Unconditional extension to early April from EU says Big Auntie radio giving the PM another 3-4 weeks to get a WA.

    What happens after that…. God only knows 🙁

  224. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    John MacRae @ 22:16,

    No worries, John. This kind of disputation is our principal national sport, don’cha know?! =wink=

  225. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert J. Sutherland@9:08pm

    “The problem with the euro is that it was attempting to achieve political ends through economic means, whereas it should have been the other way round.”

    Got it in one. The project assumed political unity could be formed through sharing a currency and ultimately a fiscal culture. A bit like the UK. However, we should all know by now that culture that is produced methodologically is brittle (see British nationalism), where as culture that is produced organically is robust (see Scottish ‘nationalism’). It also went against the awkward reality that culture shapes the economy, the exact opposite of the neo-liberal world-view.

    It should also not be forgotten that the global economy was hit hard by the USofA exporting their toxic debt. It was that, the flexible ethics of the ratings companies and the hard-line neo-liberalism of the ECB that did for Greece.

  226. Hamish100 says:

    tch tch. Whiskey? surely whisky if you are Scots/ scotch!!

  227. call me dave says:

    April 11th date for a vote to be passed.

  228. mumsyhugs says:

    John MacRae – I agree about using the name Scottish Pound or similar. You have all sorts of dollars – Canadian, American etc – so why not a Scottish pound? plus it would have the advantage of being familiar to ‘older’ Scots who are used to the notes and coinage so they’re less likely to be resistant or anxious about the new currency.

  229. Thepnr says:

    They’ve an agreement it seems and the press conference starts in 5 minutes.!wW84jW

  230. Phil says:

    John MacRae says: 21 March, 2019 at 10:16 pm

    “OK, what am I not getting?

    Why all the anguish over the name for the Scottish currency?
    What is wrong with ‘The Pound Scots’ (or Scotch, as in whiskey, beef or tomatoes) ?”

    Yeah, John. The name is not paramount, except in a marketing sense.

    “We already have all the infrastructure do we not?”

    Not as I understand it. We will need a fully featured central bank. Also, regulatory structures – which being away from London’s grip we can get to actually REGULATE. With teeth.

    There are other ‘normal’ financial and social and legal overseers successful countries have. I don’t think we have them all as yet. We have the brainpower to get all this going to present to voters pre-indyref2.

    We have the wherewithall. Now lets line up and do it!

  231. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    we have many problems with the currency question because so little is actually understood about it.
    In fact he only fully subsrivbed banks in the UK are the Scottish banks who have to deposit £10 in the Bank of England for every £10 note they print.

    When we move to our own currency (whatever it is called -the pound would do just as many countries use the description “dollar” for their currencies)we do not trade these reserves in, we just put them aside as assets and we start our own currency freely from scratch.

    Andy Anderson’s book “A Clean Currency for a Prosperous Scotland” is very easy to read,very informative,explains currency and banking in very clear terms and is available from the Forward Shop at 186 Argyll Street, Dunoon PA23 7HA for six quid (P&P paid)

  232. John MacRae says:

    RJS. Thank you.
    Always glad to be corrected. It is nearing my bedtime, not a good time to be composing on line and I suspect my spoolchucker is in need of recalibration also.

  233. Phil says:

    2,002,343 signatures

    I am going to bed happy tonight!

  234. Thepnr says:

    Just to rub salt into the wound the petition to revoke Article 50 passes the 2,000,000 mark.

  235. call me dave says:

    I’m 2,000,344 just clicked my e-mail 🙂

    I’m not a number. I’m a free man 🙂 ‘The Prisoner CIRCA 1967’

    Quite a response though.

  236. John MacRae says:

    Sorry, That should have been for Hamish 100.
    I blame the approach of bedtime for tonight’s boorach.
    Thanks to both of you anyway. I may return when more compos mentis… or not.

  237. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    EU27 responds to UK requests in a positive spirit and:

    Agrees to Art. 50 extension until 22 May if Withdrawal Agreement approved next week

    If not agreed next week then extension until 12 April

    Approves ‘Strasbourg Agreement’

    Continues no-deal preparations

    Donald Tusk – 21/03/2019

    So still 22 days to go folks.

    Getting exciting now.


  238. Golfnut says:

    @ ‘ we need a central bank ‘.

    No we don’t, the Scots Treasury can act as the Central bank, even if just as a temporary measure as currency issuer and lender of last resort. Scotland has the 4th largest financial services system in Europe and doesn’t in any shape or form lack ability or talent in this sector, secondment to the treasury would probably not be an issue.

  239. yesindyref2 says:

    “The hell is still empty, and there are a lot of spaces there”


  240. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    CameronB Brodie @ 22:27,

    There is no doubt that the global distribution of US toxic debt did an enormous amount of economic damage everywhere, and even the euro was not immune, severely exacerbated as it became by the widespread public assumption of private debt. (“Socialism for the privileged, capitalism for the rest.”)

    But it is oft conveniently forgot that pre-euro Greece was already a serious economic basket case of its own devising. Extensive political patronage in public service, etc, etc. It hid all that unpleasantness by extensively fiddling the figures to join.

    All the euro did was to mislead the then Greek establishment into thinking that they were acquiring a “get out of jail free” card, whereas in reality it was the reverse. It enabled continuing self-deception and mismanagement. Like giving a limit-free credit card to an inveterate spendthrift. When the big hit came, the rest of the eurozone put them into quarantine, but in the dire circumstances of the time they could hardly have done other. They could have handled it better, but their principal fault was to let the unreformed Greeks join in the first place.

  241. ben madigan says:

    @ Thepnr – many thanks for that link to the EU press Conference. much appreciated

  242. yesindyref2 says:

    “The EU hasn’t agreed to what Theresa May wanted” which was the BEF occupying the Maginot Line, Pyrennes, Alps and the Danube.

  243. orri says:

    Sterlingisation is the wrong word to use for continuing to use the same currency you used prior to independence. Even moreso if you hold your ground and insist on a portion of the issuing bank as is your right as a member of the union that owned it prior to your dissolving it.

    As to the Scottish banks. It was that financial genius Gordon Brown who undermined them by changing the rules concerning issuing to something akin to vanity plates. Prior to that they were backed by the banks themselves and the assets backing them could be invested short term making the banks a profit. RBS may not have been as vulnerable if it hadn’t been for him.

  244. Ken500 says:

    The Irish punt was pegged to the £ until 1997 Irish R joined the Euro. Massive growth. ‘The Irish Tiger’. Better pensions/welfare benefits. Lower cost and higher standard of living. No illegal wars, Hickley Point, HS2 or Trident No debt repayments on monies not borrowed or spend in Irish R. Plenty of EU grants projects and developments. New roads, no borders,

    No Oil. Lots of Guinness, worldwide sales Fishing industry.

  245. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert J. Sutherland
    That’s what I meant by “the flexible ethics of the rating companies”. Greece should never have gotten into the Eurozone, as there economy wasn’t up to the task. I can’t remember which agency approved them, though I’m sure they’re laughing up their sleeve.

  246. Thepnr says:

    What I’m more interested in now in the short term is when will may get her P45? She has failed to get a deal that parliament could support and has brought the UK to the edge of a No deal Brexit.

    Now she has failed to keep her promise to the leave voters that she champions of leaving on the 29th March and had to ge begging to the EU for an extension to help prevent armageddon for the UK economicly.

  247. Capella says:

    Mssrs Tusk and Juncker have spoken. Out on the 22nd May if WA agreed by HoC. If not agreed, out on the 12th April unless something spectacular happens.

    Another 22 long days to go.

  248. K1 says:

    Aye surely there’s going to be a GE now, she won’t get the deal through and the cliff edge has just moved to 12th April. We still have to hold though until it’s crystal clear…not long to go now.

  249. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    EU response pure diplomatic genius. Lobs all the onus very astutely and firmly back on May and the HoC.

    Suck it up, Daily TeleHeilEx.

  250. Ken500 says:

    Black Wednesday – ERM – Thatcher.

    Britain joined had to withdrew two years later.

    Brought Thatcher down.

    No doubt the stock traders made a killing. .

  251. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, we’ve seen a Fistful of Days, we’re now on a Few days More, won’t be long for the Good, the Bad and the Ugly starring Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.

  252. SilverDarling says:

    BBCQT has lots of weird Scottish-NI accents. Also the first time I’ve ever heard a Sinn Fein politician on QT. Apart from that, it is very depressing and I am going to stop watching now.

  253. SilverDarling says:

    Having said that the Sinn Fein person is really sticking it to the DUP person and it is quite illuminating.

  254. Alan Mackintosh says:

    iScotland needs to have its own currency, and not join the Eurozone. Whether it is Pound Scots or Merk(< I like) can be decided later. What those asking why not the Euro, need to understand is the difference between being a currency user, such as Scotland at the moment, and a currency issuer, which is the UK at the moment. If you dont understand the difference, then you need to find out.
    Adopting the Euro would make us a currency user, much the same as we are now, and that restricts the economic policies of the Scot govt.

  255. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 22:56,

    Yes, that was a great exit line from Tusk. =grin=

    After next week, May’s successor has many choices of empty hell to choose from.

    All in our name, of course. =cough=

  256. geeo says:

    When the EU stated an extension until 12th April, in the event of treezas deal failing, they played a blinder in my opinion.

    If treeza thought she was clever, putting a final choke point on her deal of no ukexit, by making the extension to A.50 conditional on her deal passing, then she just got screwed by the EU.

    By offering a short unconditional extension, the EU just told WM MP’s it was ok to vote down treezas deal next week.

    And by doing so, it makes Treeza’s position as PM even more completely untenable, even despite that already being the position now in most eyes, due to her threat to quit over meaningless vote 3 next week if it fails.

    The EU have taken charge here.

  257. Thepnr says:

    the Good, the Bad and the Ugly starring Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn 10/10 🙂

  258. Old Pete says:

    DUP = dispicapable, unionist, parasites. Nothing changed in NI, only way it will is if they reunite Ireland preferably after Scotland regains its Independence.

  259. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    geeo @ 23:28:

    The EU have taken charge.

    Absolutely. There may be 27 separate sovereign actors here (plus the Commission), but they at least seem to know what they are doing.

  260. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alan Mackintosh
    Nice to see an old name pop up. Hope you’ve kept well.

  261. Thepnr says:

    If May is pushed very shortly which looks highly likely to me then surely a General Election will follow?

    Tories will believe they will win as the polls have consistently shown them in the lead, the EU will allow time for this but after the election what difference will it have made?

    The SNP need to think hard I’d suggest as to what there manifesto will be for another snap election, I only gave another election a small possibility a couple of months ago, well now it looks more likely and if May goes almost a certainty.

  262. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    May still rabbiting on about respecting an advisory referendum.

    So she can hardly complain if she refuses to co-operate with the SG and we then choose to respect our own eventual one.

    Given the high stakes involved, as with the EURef, I can’t see the NorthBritNats boycotting our one, if that’s how it happens.

  263. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Hi Cameron B, i’ve been lurking in the background, but keeping an eye on things. I pop in when I feel I have something to add. The currency is something I have found out about over the last few years and it really needs people to be more aware of how money actually works.

  264. Jock McDonnell says:

    Ah, the fragrant Monica, beautiful, like a Picasso portrait.

  265. Nana says:

    I don’t have a sub to this Tory rag so only able to see the first few sentences

    Theresa May has been told by the most senior Tory backbencher that MPs want her to stand down because of her handling of Brexit, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of the 1922 committee of Tory MPs, visited the Prime Minister in Downing Street on Monday afternoon and made clear that a growing number of Tories believe she has to go.

    The visit by Sir Graham to Downing Street on Monday came after he was “bombarded with text messages” by colleagues and urged to confront the Prime Minister with demands that she should quit.

  266. Thepnr says:

    So May was finally forced to go with begging bowl in hand asking for an extension to Article 50. She wanted the 30thn June but instead she has got the 12th April if she loses MV3 or the 22nd May if she wins MV3.

    How embarrassing is that for what was supposed to be the “easiest deal in history” or her non stop mantra of “no deal is better than a bad deal”.

    What a riddee I would resign right now if I had come out with any of that crap. She has no shame, she has no morals and she has no clue about how people actually get by every day. That’s very worrying that someone with such deficiencies and lack of empathy could make it to Prime Minister.

    Mind you when you look at the alternatives Johnson, Gove or Rees-Moog you realise something has gone badly wrong with our media as it is them and them alone that “inform” the public.

    What a disaster and that’s why I support Independence for Scotland, it seems the UK has gone mad.

  267. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Nana @ 23:50,

    Ah. Never mind next week, toast already, it would seem.

    Dare they foist somebody else on us unelected…?

  268. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 23:58,

    Around 90% of the UK population agree with you there, Remainers and Leavers (roughly) alike. An unparalleled historical humiliation for the UK.

    Much to build on there, with the way out for us lit up by a giant flashing neon sign.

  269. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Alan Mackintosh at 11.26


  270. ben madigan says:

    @ nana who wrote “I don’t have a sub to this Tory rag so only able to see the first few sentences”

    Might I suggest a wee crowdfunder for Nana through the Rev?
    Would only take a very small one to raise a small sum – just enough to show our

    *appreciation of all Nana does to keep us informed and

    * make sure s/he can pay for subscriptions to all the sources s/he thinks we need to see?

  271. Thepnr says:

    This might make you feel ill, only watch if you’ve a strong constitution.

  272. yesindyref2 says:

    The only saving grace for May would be if she intended all along to achieve a cancellation of Brexit, if that happens history would remember her favourably – though not for some time!

  273. mike cassidy says:

    Not the merk, guys.

    Everybody will just call it the angela.

    With a hard ‘g’.

  274. Nana says:

    @ben madigan

    Thanks for that suggestion but there is no need. I happily pay a few subs already, I just won’t pay to read the Telegraph.

    Some other Winger may have a sub so perhaps they could archive and share the article.

  275. Thepnr says:


    “Some other Winger may have a sub so perhaps they could archive and share the article.”

    Hahaha Just your wee joke I take it Nana 🙂 xx

  276. Andy says:

    Does the option to cancel Article 50 still expire on the 29th March, or does the option to do so run until the extension date?

  277. K1 says:

    Here’s a few wee snippets from an article on Washington Post, top story on their site right now which sums up where we are at and gives some insight into her meeting with the EU council before the press conference. Nothing we didn’t know, just confirms everything that is wrong about this so called PM.

    ‘Brexit: Britain will not leave the E.U. next week after European leaders allow a short reprieve

    BRUSSELS — European leaders on Thursday seized control of Britain’s departure from the European Union, sparing British Prime Minister Theresa May the economic earthquake of an uncontrolled split from the European Union next week but demanding that she pass a deal or come up with an alternative by April 12.

    The decision was a harsh verdict on May’s political acumen. Nearly two hours of withering cross-examination led her fellow leaders to believe she had no political strategy to pass a divorce deal nor knew how Britain would weather an uncontrolled Brexit next Friday.

    May had promised the British people that Brexit would help them take back control from Europe. Instead, she found that her 27 fellow E.U. leaders took back decision-making from her, dictating a political calendar for the coming weeks that gives both sides a time to prepare for the worst-case scenario.’


    ‘May opened the session with other heads of state by reading part of the letter she sent a day earlier, a move that frustrated leaders hoping for explanations of her plans. Then the leaders, sitting around a ring-shaped table, peppered her with questions about how she could pass the deal in Parliament despite it having failed twice already, according to an E.U. official familiar with what happened in the room. 

    “You could feel the patience running thin,” the official said. The official and others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the closed-door discussions.

    Another diplomat described the discussion as “a bit like coming from another planet.” May presented no convincing details about her political strategy, no insights into what she would do if Britain crashed out without a deal and no willingness to make concessions, the diplomat said.’


    ‘The cross-examination lasted longer than planned — at least 90 minutes. Then they kicked out May and started to discuss what to do. May retired to the British mission to the E.U., a modern building around the corner from where the summit is being held, to wait out the verdict.’

    ‘By now, many E.U. policymakers no longer hold out hope for a second referendum that could reverse the Brexit decision and think it best to break up and move on. 

    “We don’t want in the coming months, in the coming years, to be busy with Brexit,” said Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament’s Brexit coordinator, who used to post wistful videos on Twitter appealing Britons to abandon Brexit. “We want to be busy with the renewal of the European Union,” he told reporters before the meeting.

    The Europeans are keenly aware that the Brexit chaos is being driven by members of May’s own Conservative party. She has been unable to win over her cabinet, which now confronts her daily. She is losing control, or has lost control, of the process. That makes them nervous.’

  278. mike cassidy says:

    I offer this with no comment.

    The leading five to succeed May according to one bookmaker.






  279. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alan Mackintosh
    Think it might be time for an Edinburgh bash?

  280. Nana says:

    Ach Pnr I thought if I sounded serious enough, I’d get away with that clanger!

    Are you saying you don’t have a sub? 🙂

  281. K1 says:

    Andy, revocation of A50 is still on the table after 29th.

  282. mike cassidy says:

    I think the whole brexit negotiation process has been designed to run down the clock until the end of Ruth Davidson’s maternity leave.

  283. SilverDarling says:

    @ mike cassidy

    You know you might have something there. Are they planning on her coming to their rescue to thwart Boris and JRM as they make their move?

    Nothing would surprise me about the Tories.

  284. manandboy says:

    Westminster was told in 2012 that Scotland wanted to be Independent. It only required a Referendum. That was the easy way.

    Now in 2019, 7 years later, and after nearly 3 years of Brexit, with England facing an unprecedented crisis, Scotland again wants Independence. Westminster could have done it the easy way in 2014, but this time it looks like its going to have to be the hard way.

    It is time. Hail Alba.

  285. manandboy says:

    I guess it’s the Hail Alba.

  286. manandboy says:

    Sorry ’bout that.

  287. Dr Jim says:

    When you read the foreign press it’s like they’re talking about some other place altogether from the *British* description of what’s going on

    They describe Britain as a place on its knees with no political leadership and no direction and people on the streets crying out for help (pretty accurate really)

    When you read papers like the Daily Mail you could almost swear they’re wearing Beefeater costumes as they write with pikestaffs dipped in blue ink to hand to copy boys with caps on who run to the editor with the completed manuscript written on velum then are dropped down a shute to the typesetter dressed in an ink stained apron overlooked by a picture of the Fuehrer because the Daily Mail are mixed up like that

  288. manandboy says:


    Principal of St Louis Grammar Sean Rafferty, whose school also topped last year’s league table, said he was “delighted”.

    “It’s down to the hard work of the young people, the guidance and direction of our staff and the support of parents to make those type of results a reality,” he said.

    “We see early intervention, areas of their development and academic progress that are not where they should be, and in a non-intimidatory way we try to make sure we make that young person have the self-belief that they can achieve.”

    Reflecting on the faith-based ethos of the top 10 schools, Mr Rafferty said there is a “certain essence to a faith-based education”.

    “There is a sense of collegiate responsibility there that maybe doesn’t exist in more secular models,” he added.

    “It’s proven, tried and tested across the world that the faith-based models are the most successful, and I think there’s something there that people have to take on board.

    “We’re not only successful academically, but I would argue that our success is in delivering a holistic education profile to young people so they are well equipped for the world of work, university or contribution to society.”

    Doesn’t make Scotland’s Councils’ policy of abolishing Catholic or Faith schools, look too clever does it.
    Anti-Catholic sectarianism – to the few, Scotland’s shame;
    to the many, Scotland’s pride.

  289. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    manandboy @ 01:21,

    Just one more potentially toxic issue to add to all the others we shouldn’t touch with a bargepole before or during a campaign. A distraction that opponents of independence would just love to exploit. Let them try to find their own, since they have nothing else to offer.

    Learn from last time. Keep it simple. Focus on essentials only, please.

  290. yesindyref2 says:

    Hear hear. Focus please people!

    Still time to renew the EHIC EU Health card online for free – DON’T uses a con job that charges, use

    Runs for 5 years, and who knows, might come in handy “I’m a Scot, I voted Remain”.

    Worth a try 🙂

  291. CameronB Brodie says:

    Further to manandboy’s post and my previous post indicating how a utilitarian ethos is favoured over pluralism of though and values, in the English education system. A condition that can only expect to intensify following Brexit.

    Applying Nurture as a Whole School Approach
    A Framework to support the Self-evaluation of Nurturing Approaches in Schools and Early Learning and Childcare (ELC) Settings

  292. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert J. Sutherland
    The most recent study I looked at regarding the influence of faith-based school on sectarianism, only the other week, suggested there is a degree of mythology about the percieved wisdom.

    It is a divisive issue and I don’t want to push matters, I’m simply pointing out that this is too complex an issue to address as an OT btl.

    P.S. Don’t believe what the British Unionist Media tell you to think, do your own research.

  293. Ghillie says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 12.33 am

    Time for another Edinburgh bash?

    Yup! I’ll second that 🙂

  294. CameronB Brodie says:

    MajorBloodnok said: 21 March, 2019 at 12:00 pm

    “Proof positive that, when it comes to Scotland and other foreign entities, British Nationalism really does interfere with basic thought processes, such as the use of logic and understanding what words mean.”

    Cognitive underpinnings of nationalistic ideology in the context of Brexit


    Nationalistic identities often play an influential role in citizens’ voting behavior and political engagement. Nationalistic ideologies tend to have firm categories and rules for what belongs to and represents the national culture. In a sample of 332 UK citizens, we tested whether strict categorization of stimuli and rules in objective cognitive tasks would be evident in strongly nationalistic individuals.

    Using voting behavior and attitudes from the United Kingdom’s 2016 EU referendum, we found that a flexible representation of national identity and culture was linked to cognitive flexibility in the ideologically neutral Wisconsin Card Sorting Test and Remote Associates Test, and to self-reported flexibility under uncertainty. Path analysis revealed that subjective and objective cognitive inflexibility predicted heightened authoritarianism, nationalism, conservatism, and system justification, and these in turn were predictive of support for Brexit and opposition to immigration, the European Union, and free movement of labor.

    This model accounted for 47.6% of the variance in support for Brexit. Path analysis models were also predictive of participants’ sense of personal attachment to the United Kingdom, signifying that individual differences in cognitive flexibility may contribute toward ideological thinking styles that shape both nationalistic attitudes and personal sense of nationalistic identity. These findings further suggest that emotionally neutral “cold” cognitive information processing—and not just “hot” emotional cognition—may play a key role in ideological behavior and identity.

    cognitive flexibility, nationalism, ideology, political psychology, Brexit

    Cognition and the Function of Nationalism

    Embodied Cognition: A Challenging Road for Clinical Neuropsychology

    The Theory of Dyadic Morality: Reinventing Moral Judgment by Redefining Harm

  295. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, nice to see you around, as well. 😉

  296. Graeme J McAllan says:

    I’m so tired of our reps being easily ridiculed by overweight spinsters 🙁

  297. Breeks says:

    Nana says:
    21 March, 2019 at 7:54 pm

    One EU diplomat has conceded the unity of the EU27 has started to disintegrate for the first time in the Brexit negotiations…

    Hmmm… disunity in the EU27? I’m a little sad about that. But it makes a veto on an extension all the more likely. But who’s perspective is this? “EU disunity” seems a very British clarion call. Wouldn’t an alternative perspective report the EU has a “free vote” on Article 50 extension? – where a single no amongst the 27 means the UK is out on its arse in 7 days without a safety net.

    Whatever we’re going to do Scotland, please, for the love of God do it now. This is not a drill.

    I feel like a one eyed man in the land of the blind. On one side we have delusional angry incompetents who are as thoroughly nasty as they are blinkered, as they furiously try to blame Europe simply for existing and having the absolute audacity to observe a degree of decorum and integrity. But on the other side, we have an Independence Campaign everybody tells me is going great, it’s all going according a plan, a plan so great and all conquering that must never be discussed or revealed, but trust me, trust me, it is inches from victory,… yet as far as I can actually see, hasn’t secured any purchase on either Brexit or Independence in the best part of 3 years.

    It’s going to be a helluva week. Sitting on a time bomb watching the clock expire because with my one eye I can see it.

    You know where we’re at with Europe? That moment in the Battleship movie when the two brothers make forlorn eye contact, both knowing one of them is standing on a doomed ship about to be blown to smithereens and the other can do nothing but watch. Why the fk didn’t you jump you fool? Why hesitate and seal your own fate? Why the fk didn’t you jump when there was time?

    7 days to use our initiative… but will we?

  298. yesindyref2 says:

    @Breeks “Wouldn’t an alternative perspective report the EU has a “free vote” on Article 50 extension? – where a single no amongst the 27 means the UK is out on its arse in 7 days without a safety net.

    According to Article 50, it doesn’t need ratification on an extension:

    3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

    the short extension announced by Juncker and Tusk, and May fulfills that requirement, as Tusk was speaking for the European Council – the heads of state of the EU-27.

    So we’re OK until the 12th April, or after depending on whatever.

  299. yesindyref2 says:

    That by the way is an example of where the unionist activists are either ignorant, or lying, when they say “Scotland would have no power, with just 1% of the EU population”, as Scotland for any decision requiring a unanimous consent in the European Council has 100% power, not a 9% share of a vote in the House of Commons.

    As for QMV, when 16 or more out of the EU-28 of the European Council (or the shortly named Council for department ministers) have to agree, it just needs 13 of the smallest states to disagree, and that’s it, whatever doesn’t go ahead.

    There is no such power in the UK for a devolved “assembly” as people keep calling it (including the Royal website by the way). In fact there is no power at all, none.

  300. yesindyref2 says:

    Not, of course, that that’s the way it works in the Councils. The way it works is that Independent Scotland says “Yeah, we’ll give you our consent, if you consent to double our fishing quota. After all, the UK traded it off for a pocketful of Maggie Thatcher’s baubles. Remember her?”.

  301. yesindyref2 says:

    I said “as Tusk was speaking for the European Council – the heads of state of the EU-27”

    that should have been

    “as Tusk was speaking for the European Council – the heads of state of the EU-27 – with their unanimous agreement“. Hence the length of the dinner, and going beyond time.

    My guess is the apfel strudel and custard were stone cold.

  302. Cactus says:

    Will THIS weak Westminster gov even make it to April ’19!:

    Or will it be comin’ doon in showers?

  303. dom says:

    And finally…


  304. dom says:

    Morning Cactus

    No Deal suits Scottish Indy

  305. Cactus says:

    Aweright dom ~ marnin’ tae ye.

    Aye believe the People of Scotland NOW believe in independence.

    Are YOU ready Scotland?:

  306. Dr Jim says:

    All the other countries of the world are rubbish and poor and have no economy and are disunited

    It says so in the *British* newspapers every other day

    Be greatful, especially you Scotland you’ve got nuthin

  307. Ken500 says:

    There are no ‘separate’ schools in many parts of Scotland. There is no sectarianism and excellent schools. No Orange marches. Orange marches are banned. In totally Protestant areas. No one will tolerate them. They are are the blott on the landscape in Scotland. The unionists have never done anything to redeem the situation because it benefited the corruption. Sectarianism ruins the Scottish economy. Just as it does illegally in Ireland. An absolute, appalling disgrace. The people that are supposed upholdthe Law break the Law with impunity. Peados, bigots, racist thrives and liars get a way with major crimes. They get away with murder. Just look at Westminster. Amoral, lyng crooks.

    The stinking cesspit of Westminster paedos, racist, bigoted, thieving liars.

  308. Heart of Galloway says:

    Brilliant move by EU to leave HoC to stew for a fortnight if MV3 vote falls next week. That coup de main torpedoes May’s ‘gun to the head’ strategy with MPs and probably ensures her precious wee deal will be finally put to death.

    That means a no deal exit on April 12 or a long extension to accommodate plan ‘B’ whatever that turns out to be. May will quit – meaning a possible GE with the Tories led by a Brexiteer fanatic.

    The SNP must stand with IndyRef2 and Scottish EU membership as its standard. Bring it on.

  309. Kangaroo says:

    a) It’s called Sterling because Stirling was the old location of the Mint.

    b) It is no coincidence that 29Mar and 12Apr are notable dates from the EU negotiations as these are also important dates by International Financial Law.

    On 29 March Basle 3 comes into force. This mandates that Gold will be included in Tier 1 Capital for Banks risk weighted balance sheets.

    On 12 April Gold backed digital credits must come on line.

    In other words a Gold Standard is being implemented.
    So paper notes in any Currency will be equivalent to a specified weight of Gold.

    This is why China and Russia have been buying copious amounts of Gold for the last few years and also why the BoE refused to return Venezuela’s Gold.

    Unfortunately we need more detail to be able to answer the questions on currency put by Wingers in the above thread.

  310. Nana says:

    Cold war and NATO at 70
    New cold war?
    Brexit -nothing has changed.
    Ian Blackford; “Scotland WILL ACT!”
    Rockets galore? Millions given away to Spanish firm with no guarantee of launches. Azores gives millions to them as well.

    Joan McAlpine is being put under pressure by trans activists. One has even sent in an official complaint to the SNP because she is fighting for biological women’s rights. She deserves our support

  311. Nana says:

    The EU’s patience with the UK is at breaking point over Brexit

    NEW PODCAST: Edge Of Destruction with guests @rolandmcs & @davidallengreen plus hosts @rosamundmtaylor & @IanDunt. Recorded pre-Tusk but still pretty spicy. Get it while it’s hot:

  312. Nana says:

    This is bat shit crazy. Suicidal. She must be stopped.

    The prime minister appears to be quite mad. There are rats in the attic. The captain of the ship is not all there.

    NHS England ‘no chance of training enough staff’

  313. Nana says:

    It’s all kicking off in the House of Commons, as John Bercow told MPs to “raise the level” after interjections from the benches. When Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom criticised his response, he asked her to sit down.

    She didn’t answer
    Facebook stored hundreds of millions of passwords unprotected

  314. Nana says:

    This is a national emergency, firms of all sizes are telling us they are not ready for a ‘No-deal’ Brexit, we have got to find a way forward that protects livelihood and jobs of ordinary people.

    Brexit: Hundreds of gagging orders taken out by government

    Her husband is running the show

  315. Nana says:

    This is the cost of Brexit in economic terms. Europe will feel it, but it will hit the UK to a degree far more painful than the worst EU impact. End the madness and withdraw Article 50
    See map here

    German TV unfolds the whole #Brexit coup, dark money, dark adds. Whistleblower Mr. Sanni explaining how it all works. They are also going after Banksy’s money. They’re at his diamond mines. Deserted!

  316. Nana says:

    “I want this to stop. We need to revoke Article 50.

    “This is now an embarrassment”

    ‘It was not clear if she had a plan at all’: how May’s night at the summit unfolded

    A wee flavour of what went on behind the scenes

  317. Nana says:

    Operation Yellowhammer has started, I have been hearing, with barrack space being made ready at Scottish bases.

    Brexit deal ‘very, very unlikely’ to pass – Conservative eurosceptic

    EU forces choice of their political lives on MPs

  318. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil says: 21 March, 2019 at 10:24 pm:

    … Which I would think accords with what you and like minded others write. Eg., meaning of what McCrone wrote. How else can we know anything about his memorandum other than by buying The National and reading it / saving it to our HDD.”

    Well no. The McCrone report has been on-line for quite some time. You do not need to use the newspaper to access it nor do you need it on your Hard drive but that is a very minor point.

    ” … Sterlingisation is discussed all over and is a concept used over decades by countries”.

    Yeah! So is the term rUnited Kingdom but the use of such wrong terms as propaganda doesn’t make their use correct. It just makes them the propaganda used for brainwashing they undoubtedly are.

    … My dislike in that case is distrust of the currency partner.”

    In the first place we need not have England as a currency partner. As I point out there are many countries that have the Dollar as their currency, few are tied to the USA Dollar. I pointed out that Canada and the USA both use the Dollar. They are not tied together and neither country has any problem with that, As a wee aside the Canadians refer to their dollar Bill as, A Loonie. This because it has a picture of the Canadian animal called a Loon.

    Anyway, what I was pointing out is that in the case of either a Scots pound tied to the Pound English or as a Pound Scots not tied to the English pound the country that will fear either setup will be England and not Scotland.

    If the two currencies are not tied then it means that the Bank of England, nationalised by the United Kingdom in 1946 obviously belongs both to England and Scotland. The United Kingdom is the Union parliament. It is not the parliament of England.

    That means as we own part of the BofE we can demand seats on the board and if England retains the pound then we have Scots sitting on the Central Bank of England.

    If the Pound Scots is tied to the pound England we have people on the board and have no need to set up a separate central bank and the Scots pound will be the stronger currency that will dictate how the joint currency is rated.

    As I pointed out it was the prospect of a common currency with the Scots pound being boosted by oil & gas revenues that spooked Westminster into hiding the McCrone report. They saw the danger for England if there was an independent Scotland with a pound England tied to a strong Pound Scots.

    In both tied and free floating currencies the Pound Scots would be the leading currency and England would be powerless to do anything about it. In other words, and they know it, they are the ones fearing a Scotland using the pound Sterling.

  319. Dorothy Devine says:

    Morning Nana! Thanks as always for the links but one of them appears strange .

    I was expecting Glen Campbell at the BBBC and to my surprise got a young lady complaining about a salad , Was that what I was meant to get?

  320. Nana says:

    Very measured thread. Not sure EU has confidence in either Mrs May OR capacity of Parliament to over-rule her. But they’ve created flexible “no blame” space whatever the outcome.

    May faces uphill battle to get support for Brexit deal, as Ireland insists there won’t be a hard border

    Petitions are a great way to exercise democracy. I highly recommend it. I don’t think this one is going to get to a high enough number to make a difference, but if it does, I think it might go something like this…

  321. jockmcx says:

    always wanted to post these two L cohen The animals

    c’mon everybody…”Last march of the ents”!

  322. Nana says:

    Morning Dorothy, don’t know what happened there. Perhaps my stubby fingers to blame!
    Try this link

  323. Brian Powell says:

    The issue with the petition is that Brexiters can say, OK 1million plus signatures, but over 17 million voted for Brexit.

  324. Tatu3 says:

    From one of Nana’s links –
    “Theresa May says she will not revoke Article 50 despite viral petition”…..
    “When asked for Theresa May’s view on the petition, a No 10 spokeswoman said May worried failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”.”

    That made me laugh! She really has no idea! When I last looked the petition was at almost 3 million signatures!

  325. ScottieDog says:

    “That means as we own part of the BofE we can demand seats on the board and if England retains the pound then we have Scots sitting on the Central Bank of England.”

    Yep we could spend years arguing that, or have our very own central bank which sets monetary policy exclusively calibrated to the Scottish economy.
    We could also enshrine proper banking regulation within our own written constitution part of which would be a promise to bail out depositors and not bankers.

    We are heading towards another financial crisis because the criminals are running the prison.

  326. galamcennalath says:

    We are definitely going to be in the shite ….

    One of the UK’s major toilet tissue importers has been stockpiling to ensure it can maintain supplies in the event of a no-deal Brexit. German-owned Wepa has stockpiled 3.5m rolls in UK warehouses. Wepa sells toilet paper used by retailers for their own-brand products. Customers include Lidl, Morrisons, Sainsbury’s, and Tesco.

    3.5 million stockpile. Apparenty UK daily consumption in about 20 million rolls.

  327. Liz g says:

    Brian Powel @ 9.42
    They probably will, infact I think some already have…
    But What they cannot do is say that the petition did not reach the threshold of it’s purpose.
    And it’s purpose is to demonstrate demand for the issue to be debated in Parliament.
    Which it has done with bells on…
    This is the Westminster Parliment’s own initiative

    The more that it exceeds it’s target,the more likely it is to be debated.
    And, it has to be said…. It’s all thanks to the Scottish Six,and those who funded them, that we’re not having to wonder,while all the media make hay about it, if it’s indeed possible TO revoke Article 50 !

  328. Dorothy Devine says:

    Nana, thank you I think ! Though now I’ve read some of the inane ,puerile comments below the piece I’m not at all sure.

    I’m quite unhappy that I share the same world with some of these folk.

  329. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil says: 21 March, 2019 at 10:35 pm:

    ” … “We already have all the infrastructure do we not?”
    Not as I understand it. We will need a fully featured central bank. Also, regulatory structures.

    Well yes we have, or at least we have a share in one. As I’ve already pointed out the bank of England has never in its existence belonged to the English Parliament. i.e. it has never belonged to the English parliament.

    It began as a private company called, “The Governor & Company of the Bank of England”. Called the Bank of England because the English Kingdom banked with it not because it owned it. Don’t you call the bank you use, “My Bank”?

    Anyway it remained an independent company until 1946 when the United Kingdom Government nationalised it. The United Kingdom Government is NOT the legally elected parliament of England because there is no such thing as a Parliament of England.

    The United Kingdom is a two partner union of kingdoms it is not actually either the parliament of England or the Parliament of Britain. It just thinks it is.

    So, when Scotland becomes independent Scotland is not leaving the United Kingdom – Scotland is disuniting the United Kingdom and the status Quo Ante is the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

    That means that as the Bank of England was nationalised by the United Kingdom then both Kingdoms own it. It simple does not belong to England alone.

    So – from that we must look at it from a very different point of view. If we jointly own both the Pound Sterling and the bank of England we have two choices.

    We can chose to keep the pound and we can demand, as an independent kingdom that owns part of the Bank of England that we have seats on the board. That means we have use of a central bank from day one and obtain some control over the currency.

    The second option is to retain the pound and not tie the Scots pound to the English pound. That means we must set up a central bank but we still can demand seats on the board of the Bank of England.

    It is a Win-Win situation. We control our own independent pound and we have a hand in controlling the Pound English.

    However, in either case the real control over both currencies will be market conditions and there is the truth of what will happen. England is currently a net importer and Scotland currently is a net exporter. Scotland would thus have a great advantage if she were currently independent just by that net exporter figure.

    However, the way things are currently is that Westminster sucks out a great deal of Scotland’s economic activity.

    First of all Westminster takes such indirect taxes as VAT, Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Betting Tax and Road Tax. Not only that but the jobs involved in those taxes is almost all outside Scotland and those earners spend their earnings outside Scotland. Then we have the more obvious scams like the National Grid Connection Charges that increase the further the generators are from London.

    All this without considering oil & gas revenue. The United Kingdom has classed all oil and gas as coming from, “Extra Regio Territory”. Now have you ever looked at a definition of what the term, “Extra Regio”, actually means? I’ll enlighten those who have not. It means – “Cannot be identified as being from any particular territory”. Yet up to 98% of oil & gas is extracted from internationally recognised Scottish Waters. That is waters under Scottish Jurisdiction.

    So every penny of oil & gas revenue goes right down to London. Now ignore those 8.4% figures they tell you they use based upon population ratios. Those figures are only used as a basis for other estimates to obtain other estimated statistics. There is no actual 8.4% of funding from oil & gas sent back to Scotland. All Scotland gets is the Block Grant.

    There are many more Westminster scams but that is enough to show the way things are. So immediately Scotland becomes independent, (and so does the kingdom of England), the picture immediately changes and both independent kingdoms must rely upon their own assets and debits.

    Scotland has then an embarrassing influx of wealth and England loses much, much more than England can afford to be without. They do not own the pound and they do not own the Bank of England and they are already deeply in debt – and you are worried about trusting them? To not mince words we will be holding them by the short and curly hair. And they know it.

    – which being away from London’s grip we can get to actually REGULATE. With teeth.
    There are other ‘normal’ financial and social and legal overseers successful countries have. I don’t think we have them all as yet. We have the brainpower to get all this going to present to voters pre-indyref2.
    We have the wherewithall. Now lets line up and do it!

  330. Nana says:

    @Dorothy, I tend not to look as I know fine well the rabid loons will be out in force. Doesn’t do the old BP any good and avoids giving the dug a fright with me screeching round the house 🙂

  331. ian stewart says:

    “Whats wrong with the Euro anyway ? As good a currency as any.”
    iScotland using a currency it did not control with its own central bank and taxation system removes useful levers from the government’s arsenal of controls.
    Walking about France or Spain there seems, as you say, not much wrong with the Euro. It buys beer.

    My personal preference would be our own currency and the ability to control it for the benefit of Scotland. The point I was making was the Anglophiles hatred of the Euro next to their hatred of “immigrants” is what defines them.

  332. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I consider myself a typical “Baby Boomer”. I did my individual bit in our combined efforts to bring sex, drink and drugs and rock ‘n’ roll to 1960s and 1970s Scotland. Now, having done my three score years and ten (and more) all I want is a quiet life, and my three unfulfilled ambitions realised.

    These are: 1, Scotland back playing in both the World Cup and European Championship finals. 2, the Scotland rugby team to beat the All Blacks. 3, most-importantly: FREEDOM.

    So, all these twitter postings about transgender issues and so-forth on the Rev’s twitter feed – they leave me cold.

    If someone is attached to a best friend named Wullie, Dick, Boaby, John Thomas, whatever, and if said friend has their two odd-shaped brain cells, encased in a wrinkled sac or “bawbag”, nestling underneath Wullie, Dick, Boaby, or JT – YOU’RE A MAN.

  333. Liam says:

    We are definitely going to be in the shite ….

    3.5 million stockpile. Apparenty UK daily consumption in about 20 million rolls.

    Is ‘consumption’ really the right word there?

    What’s wrong with the Euro? Nothing as far as I tell. Whatever currency we end up using people will be moaning that there isn’t enough of it in their pockets and whoever is in charge spending tax money is wasting it on things they disapprove of.

    But when it comes down to it the average yoon in the streets I would, I guess, state their main objection as: “It ain’t got a pichure of the queen onnit. It ain’t proper munny wivout a pichur of the queen on in, innit?”

    As anyone who has ever tried to use a Clydsdale note south of Carlisle will testify anything other than ‘Bank of England’ notes is ‘funny money’.

    I had less trouble changing Scottish notes in Spain than I did in Ingerlund last time I was there.

  334. Clootie says:

    My own view on currency.

    Would I prefer a Scottish currency tied to the Pound or to a currerecy unit with a 10times bigger population base I.e. The Euro.

    I think it is a no brainer personally!

  335. tartanfever says:

    This entire stooshie could have been avoided so easily, and actually, it’s where many independence supporters go so wrong.

    The key word is ‘adopt’. That is not the same as ‘use’. Next time someone says ‘you’ll have to adopt the euro’ then ask what they mean by ‘adopt’ ?

    It means nothing more than show an obligatory commitment to the currency which you are not forced to follow through on. Asking them to clarify what they mean because they use ambiguous words it such an easy strategy.

    It requires listening to the words being used and asking a question in response. It does not require hundreds of people going off onto full rants about the future Scottish currency.

  336. McBoxheid says:

    Using the pound would be much easier for people. I remember when the € was introduced in Germany. For months before they put the DM price and the € price on everything, to get people used to the €. On the day of the changeover they the stopped using the DM price. There was no more direct comparison.

    This led to a lot of people, especially in gastronomy and pubs just changing the DM sign to that of the €. Virtually a doubling in price. After enormous protest, but never publically, people writing to their constituencies, they compared prices before and after and found that in a lot of cases the price was indeed doubled. Other EU countries introducing the € showed both prices AFTER the change, so it wasn’t possible to rip people off in the same manner by just changing the currency sign.

    If it were to be decided at some point to introduce the € to Scotland,or any other currency, measures would be needed to prevent this sort of thing happening.

  337. jfngw says:

    Burley still trolling away on twitter, that skelping must have hurt.

    She wants to know what last nights score was. As far as I can tell it was EU 27 England 0. Scotland still on the EU bench but they are ready to take the field soon.

  338. Meg merrilees says:

    Petition not far off 3,000,000 signatures now.

    Seems the EU reminded T May that there are actually 4 options.

    Her deal — or Treaty as Farage insists on calling it,
    No deal,
    Long extension to accommodate PV or poss GE
    Revoke Article 50

  339. jfngw says:

    As well as requesting extra protect after the PM declared MP’s ‘enemies of the people’, I believe some have also requested codpieces be made available when visiting the strangers bar to protect against accidental touching during tripping incidents.

  340. Bob Mack says:

    Revoke article 50 petition soars through 3 million.

  341. Meg merrilees says:

    mike cassidy @ 12.40 am

    Yes, I wonder what is the main topic of discussion in the Davidson (/ don;t know her partner’s surname) household just now.

    Is our (t)Ruthless happy to be away from it all; champing at the bit to get back in full flow; advising on the sidelines; staring in disbelief at the chaos; planning her indyref2 strategy/GE strategy.

    Conservative headquarters must surely be loathe to commit to a GE without her back from maternity leave

    oh, and one other big subject –

    when do we think they will begin a certain high-profile court case?

  342. HandandShrimp says:

    Is Kay Burley actually Ron Burgundy? 🙂

    See the petition has passed 3 million. Probably would have done so sooner if the site didn’t keep crashing. The map stopped adding numbers around the 1.3m mark.

    That petition is driving the gammon into an absolute froth of impotent rage and zimmer frame rattling.

  343. Ken500 says:

    Kay Burley should be sacked. She is not a journalist. She is a propagandist. Boycott Sky. There are plenty of alternatives, especially on the internet.

    The only thing SKy gets right is the time.

    Murdoch got away with £30Billion, He could never need or spend before he keels over. Got away with murder.

  344. Dr Jim says:

    The *British* people voted for PAIN and Mrs May’s going to make sure Scotland gets it

    20 million lavvy rolls per day are used in the entire UK and if memory serves there’s only one company in the UK makes them (Manchester) the rest which is nearly all is imported from the world, guess where through? Bazinga! you’re right

    What’s the betting every pensioner in England is standing in line waiting for the boats to bring them ashore from the world taking them home and making their hooses fire hazards

    But Scotland won’t get our Erse’s anywhere near the lovely soft triple ply with lavender and softener Ole stuff for our wee cauld sair newspaper wiped bums

  345. Ken500 says:

    Kay Burley is a ignorant manipulator.

  346. galamcennalath says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:

    these twitter postings about transgender issues and so-forth on the Rev’s twitter feed – they leave me cold

    Me too. I have my doubts that such ‘issues’ are of interest to many.

    However, I do wonder if ‘issues’ like this are hyped to deflect peoples’ minds. I am suspicious that ‘issues’ which don’t challenge big business are being encouraged and stimulated, while others which question corporate behaviour are ignored.

    Climate change, oil, plastics, tax evasion, sugar, land ownership, internet monopolies, fake news, food additives, food processing etc etc all huge issues which seem to be played down. Anything non-threatening to corporate interests is being hyped.

    That isn’t to say the way and methods by which ‘gender issues’ are being pushed and stoked isn’t a threat. There seems to be a great deal of violent and intimidating language involved. Seems to me most un-feminine behaviour from those professing their femininity.

  347. Fireproofjim says:

    Pricing in Euros and pounds is used now by many major stores. Tesco for example, for clothing and some major items.
    It certainly is not difficult to do. Almost imperative I would say

  348. call me dave says:

    @Dr Jim

    Your certainly scraping along the bottom there. 🙂

    Her indoors has got a 12 pack this morning in place of the usual 4 pack. So it must be true!

    PS: Just getting out the car at the shops this morning when John from Aberdeen (aye him) was starting his usual on GMS shortbread call in.

    He’s incandescent with rage (normal) wie the SNPEE and the Greens about Brexit and Indi2 and… and I never heard the rest as the ignition was switched off. 🙁

  349. Abulhaq says:

    The best type of referendum is a parliamentary election, whether that be in Edinburgh or London.
    It is also the most ‘legitimate’. Online popular petitions of the sort carry no real weight within the British constitutional arrangement, Parliament alone being sovereign.
    However be prepared, a GE has developed possibilities.
    Vote SNP for independence….quite clear enough for even the most bewildered/glaikit elector.

  350. galamcennalath says:

    Philippe Lamberts, a Belgian MEP …. “When she [May] was asked what happens if you can’t get the deal through next week, the answer was basically, ‘I don’t know’, and that is of course scary.”

    In her statement last night she dismissed or avoided all questions about a Plan B. She would only talk about ‘her deal’ or ‘no deal’.

    No one expects ‘her deal’ to pass, few want ‘no deal’.

    May has taken brinksmanship umpteen steps too far!

    Awa’ tae buy mair bog rolls!

  351. Robert Peffers says:

    @ScottieDog says:22 March, 2019 at 9:48 am:

    … Yep we could spend years arguing that, or have our very own central bank which sets monetary policy exclusively calibrated to the Scottish economy.”

    Did you not read what was commented before making reply, ScottieDog?

    The point was that Scotland owns part of the Bank of England and thus has two choices. To have their own central bank and and currency but to insist as part owners of the BofE to have people on the BofE board that deals with England’s currency.

    The other choice is to tie the Scots Pound to the English Pound and watch as the Pound Scots gets stronger while the pound English gets weaker while we have people on the BofE board to keep an eye on them. This is the one that McCrone scared the shit out of them with so much they buried the report and that is without McCrone stating the obvious that Scotland actually owns part of the BofE and could insist on seats on the board.

    In any case it is not just the bank’s policies that set the conditions of the currency it is the state of the economy but mainly the state of the ratio of imports to exports. Import more than you export and you are running up debts.

  352. Republicofscotland says:

    In my opinion it’s just outright lies from Burley and Channel 4, and it should be treated accordingly with disdain.

  353. Jack Murphy says:

    OT, A wee reminder to new readers of Wings over Scotland—-there’s another good site worth keeping an eye on called

    It has rolling daily updates.Just scroll.
    Worth Bookmarking. 🙂

  354. Meindevon says:

    Well here we go. Brexiteers are causing traffic delays with rolling road blocks around the M5 and A30 today. All around Devon and Cornwall.

    Aah well.. is the curling on the telly?

  355. maxxmacc says:

    One of the main reasons the vote failed last time was the lack of any credible plan for what the currency in an independent Scotland would be. We simply cannot afford to go into another referendum with a similar situation.

    The SNP has laid out some plans, but they are not credible and will be picked apart by the media and the resulting confusion will affect the vote negatively.

    If an independent Scotland still wishes to be part of the EU, then the only sensible option is to embrace the Euro. The pound was the world’s number one reserve currency (over 50%) after the war, however this figure has steadily tumbled to a paltry 4%.

    The Euro however has grown to 20% of the world’s currency, and is even tipped by some economists to overtake the dollar later this century.

    Let’s face it, the pound is almost on terms with the Euro now, and could easily experience a post-Brexit collapse. So it makes sense of every level to declare for the Euro now!

    Take away any uncertainty and put our Scottish economy on a sound footing by planning to adopt the Euro as soon as possible after independence.

  356. geeo says:


    If you think a Parliamentary election at WM is “most legitimate” then you have got rocks in your head.

    An absolute seat majority can be won on well below 50% of the votes actually cast (you can probably count on one hand over last 100 Years when 50% of the vote was won).

    Throw in non voters, who if had voted for the ‘cheggers pop party’ in 2017, would have won a majority of over 60 seats and been the government !!

    Most Legitimate ? I think not.

  357. Nana says:

    As I won’t be here tomorrow I am posting some articles here

    Value of Scottish natural resources calculated for first time

    Can’t get the staff: Scenic Highlands at eye of Scotland’s Brexit storm

    Blocked from reading the article but you get the gist
    News of job losses at Faslane adds to concerns about shipbuilding and engineering skills in the UK

  358. Nana says:

    Brexit: The DUP just ruined Theresa May’s weekend with this scathing statement

    It Appears That Chuka Umunna Is Being Funded By One Of The Tories’ Biggest Donors

    Secret Cabinet Office document reveals chaotic planning for no-deal Brexit

    How the media let malicious idiots take over

  359. Nana says:

    Those who support #Indy should not hesitate to support the campaign to #RevokeArt50. The arguments for #indyref2 are amply supported by #Scotland’s treatment throughout the #Brexit crisis. I know @AngusMacNeilSNP agrees!

    Ian Blackford accused of being a tr___or to England!!!
    Unable to archive

  360. Nana says:

    Last links in moderation, my bad for posting five. One of them is to the Scotsman article which i can’t archive

    BREAKING#Today the UK has stooped further into the gutter by voting against all seven resolutions condemning Israel. Welcome to Theresa May’s post Brexit Britain where the UK stands shoulder to shoulder with Israel.

  361. Muscleguy says:

    Ever since the calling of the first indyref in 2012 I have lost track of the number of times I have corrected people online claiming that we have to join the Euro with the facts of the matter.

    That there are still some who cannot understand the system of joining the Euro but are employed in the British media is a depressing scandal. That they are put in charge of things like fact checks for C4 makes it worse.

    Since C4 is also partly funded by the license fee this makes me even more glad I no longer pay the ‘lie to me’ tax. And to think last time I thought C4 news was easily the best over the indyref even though they could have been better. I do hope they are not going backwards. Take off the Metropolitan blinkers guys.

  362. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hear what you’re saying and hope you don’t think I’m trying to distract from CORE issues. The thing is, human rights and environmental quality are inseparable, they are intrinsically linked and mutually supportive concepts. That means you can’t support one cause in isolation. Instead, you need to rake a holistic approach to problem resolution. Women’s sex-based rights are also human rights, they need protecting from illiberal public policy.

    Human Rights and the Environment: Redefining Fundamental Principles?

    At the end of this century we are witnessing an unprecedented increase in legal claims for both, human rights and the environment. Never before have so many people raised so many demands for human and environmental protection. Like human rights, environmental law touches upon all spheres of human activity. Quite obviously, human rights and the environment are closely related.

    But how close? Is the environment a mere good or value to be added to the list of individual demands? This is the approach of individual environmental rights. Or is the environment a condition of life, therefore requiring limitations to individual freedom? This is the ecological approach to human rights.
    This paper discusses both approaches as they have emerged in international and national law. A human right to a healthy environment has been promoted for more than twenty years and can today be seen as a right in statu nascendi.

  363. CameronB Brodie says:

    From the perspective of Biological Anthropology, sex is the most significant determinant of human health. Human sex is characterised by it’s dimorphism. It is not possible to self-determine one’s sex, that is simply magical thinking.

    Guidance and Practice

  364. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    maxxmacc at 2.44
    This post is absolute rubbish.

    We went into the referendum with four perfectly viable currency options as determined for us by four of the world’s most respected economic advisers.
    We chose one which the chair of the Bank of England conceded would immediately have been agreed (as to refuse it would have caused probably a sovereign default on sterling. We actually own a considerable percentage of the sterling.)

    The mistake was to chose one. This gave our enemy a target. George Osborne came up and told a big lie and ran off south. The media promoted the big lie relentlessly. We got caught arguing about a lie and lost momentum just as were were gaining.
    We should have said “190 countries in the world use a wide variety of currency option and we will chose the best one when the time is right. Or do you think we are the only people too stupid to do that?”

    I am fed up with comments from our supporters who do not undertstand currency, have no idea how comprehensively his issue was dealt with in the White Paper and do not understand how politics works.

  365. manandboy says:

    For a forensically deep analysis and dissection of the politics and the personal style of the still Prime Minister.

    Mrs May gives the impression of being unhinged in a single-minded kind of way.

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