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Wings Over Scotland

Positive case finally unveiled

Posted on June 24, 2014 by

And this time we’re not being sarcastic. We were bemused yesterday when a number of people on Twitter started swapping referendum-based jokes about Stanley Baxter, who for younger readers used to be some sort of pantomime star and vaudeville performer. The jokes were explained today when it was revealed, to our considerable surprise, that Mr Baxter was in fact still alive and urging a No vote in the referendum.


Baxter, who left Scotland 55 years ago and told the Times that he now returns only for “the odd funeral”, nevertheless felt able to assert from these occasional visits that support for a Yes vote was founded in hatred for the English from simple-witted Scots who “don’t know any better” caused by “Braveheart” and hey, stay awake at the back there because we’re coming to the important bit.

And that’s that the comedian, who made a career out of telling TV viewers that the people of Glasgow had hilarious incomprehensible accents in need of translating into proper English, also went on to (no doubt impeccably) articulate the real reason, never previously spoken aloud, that the No campaign wants Scotland to stay part of the UK.

“I’m very happy in London. South of the border’s been very good to me.”

Those, readers, are the words at the forefront of every single Scottish Labour MP’s mind when contemplating the prospect of Scottish independence. We have no quibbles with anyone who votes No because they feel British, consider Britain to be their country and want to keep it that way. That’s an honest, legitimate view which deserves neither scorn nor pity.

But the campaign for the Union is being conducted almost solely by people with massive personal and financial vested interests. That’s something which isn’t true in the other direction – SNP Westminster MPs are trying to put themselves OUT of a job, and those at Holyrood will gain nothing from independence other than more responsibility and more competition for their seats.

But the 53 MPs of all the Unionist parties in Scotland will lose their livelihoods. They’ll lose their feather-bedded salaries, their gravy-train expenses, their gold-plated pensions and their hopes of a lucrative ermine-clad retirement in the House Of Lords. And perhaps even more than all that, they’ll lose their exalted place in the glamorous surroundings of Westminster and Whitehall.

Stanley Baxter is at least honest enough to admit that “the positive case for the Union” is “the positive case for Stanley Baxter”. He likes London, and a career in London mocking the Scots has provided him with a very good living, for which he’s understandably grateful.

Many before him and many since have carved out similar niches as Jock Jesters at the court of the state broadcaster, and good for them. We’re hardly about to look down from Bath, after all, on anyone who had to venture south to seek gainful employment.

It would be refreshing, however, if just once a Labour MP (or indeed a Lib Dem or the Tory) stood up with the same honesty as Baxter and said “Look, I’ve got a good thing going here and if you vote Yes you’re going to screw it right up for me. Gonnae no?”

The closest we’ve come so far is “Better Together” communications director Rob Shorthouse, who told a public meeting in Dunoon in March that what the independence debate meant to him was that “it pays my mortgage”. But at least Mr Shorthouse’s mortgage is paid by a private company financed by willing volunteers.

MPs’ mortgages are paid by the taxpayer, and it’d be nice if occasionally some of them admitted that the reason they want Scots to vote No is that they’re very happy with and thankful for that arrangement, and they’d very much like it to continue.

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  1. 24 06 14 13:23

    Positive case finally unveiled | Scottish Independence News

159 to “Positive case finally unveiled”

  1. ScottB says:

    The Daily Record and Scotsman both ran this story today (both articles exactly the same, word for word0) – are they owned by the same company these days?



  2. Chris Darroch says:

    Excellent journalism

  3. No no no...Yes says:

    Slim Jim Murphy is being touted as next SLAB leader:

    Jim is unlikely to give up the good life, especially when he will only ever achieve Leader of the Opposition at Holyrood.

    The idea of Jim coming home surely indicates that Miliband has no confidence in any of the SLAB MSP’s.

  4. Nobby Power says:

    Pity it wasn’t Stanley Unwin…the No camp’s nonsense would’ve been entertaining.

  5. Alastair Seago aka zorbathejock says:

    He also spends time in Cyprus, another country who achieved independence.

  6. Robert Louis says:

    Imagine, you grow up in a run down part of Glasgow, no qualifications from school, and no real talent, aside from being ‘a bit gobby’. You hate the poverty around you, and start campaigning, and whilst doing so meet the local Glasgow Labour MP. You find out he live in a detached bungalow in bearsden, has a second home in London, has free flights for him and his family to London, earns over 60k per year, plus extremely generous expenses, subsidised food and access to the cheapest bar in the UK, and he hasn’t got any qualifitcations.

    You go home to you your wee damp council hovel, realise there never will be any jobs in your area, and it suddenly strikes you – get elected as an MP. Kerching!!!! You then start the process of serious arse licking and integrity compromises in order to be the man selected for a safe Labour seat.

    That’s it, you are made. Whe you retire, you alone will have one of the very best gold plated pensions available in the UK.

    Suddenly, that is all threatened. If Scotland becomes independent, you lose ALL that, the salary, the second London home, the free flights for you and your family, maybe even the gold plated pension, and the chance to sit in the house of Lords until you die, claiming 300 pounds a day to do so.

    Most Scottish Labour MP’s have zero talent and zero skill, they would be on the dole outside of Westminster. THAT is why Labour are so feart of independence. They care nothing for Scotland or its people, it’s all about themselves.

  7. Helena Brown says:

    This must be about the most stupid reason going for voting No. I do not even care how many celebrities come out for Yes. He has no vote either which makes it worse. He must be a good age by now, oh yes he is the same age as my Father in Law would have been, 88 so the years earning a living playing up the inferiority of the Glaswegian has given him a nice long life. Sorry son you have got to the age and sense where you have nothing to say.

  8. heedtracker says:

    So you’ve got Stanley Baxter in London, Billy Connolly NY to LA, the Krankies in OZ and all voting No but none of them actually want to live in Scotland, in the yewkay. Clowns.

  9. Mike says:

    Media today is full of the anti English sentiment scare again thanks to this silly delusional little man. He actually claimed there was no anti Scottish sentiment South of the border. Clearly not a Daily Mail reader or somebody who likes to watch Top Gear and Have I got news for you. Or perhaps our media once again misquoted and misrepresented his views.

  10. Training Day says:

    Cue Sarah Smith on Scotland 2014 tonight:

    Whirrahelzamarra with the Yes campaign?

  11. Robert Louis says:

    Seriously, nobody really cares what Stanley thinks. He should enjoy his reitrement. Many Scots can’t.

  12. Helena Brown says:

    Robert Louis, you got that right, they are a disgrace to this country, the whole shooting match.

  13. Alastair Seago aka zorbathejock says:

    I asked Murphy once if he supported the break up of Yugoslavia into it’s original states but he refused to answer.I suppose he wanted it to stay united.

  14. creag an tuirc says:

    Those 53 unionists MP’s would also have to work really, really hard, use their own inituative and be fully accountable in an iScotland.

  15. Free Scotland says:

    When MPs talk about pooling and sharing resources, what they mean is that they want to pool Scotland’s resources and share them out south of the border, primarily among themselves.

  16. joe kane says:

    Excellent regular commenteer Vronsky yesterday on WOS. Just to say, LfI stands for “Labour for Independence” –
    No Labour MPs or MSPs will come out for independence. If they do, they will be immediately deselected. I was told this by a LfI activist and it rings true. Surrender your job with that fat salary and fatter expenses on a point of principle? Ain’t going to happen. Remember that most of these people are unemployable outside of politics.
    23 June, 2014 at 9:53 pm

  17. steviecosmic says:

    I’ve been pointing out for the last two years that the No campaign’s loudest voices and most vocal proponents are ALL Scottish unionist politicians or lords with a lot to lose personally from a Yes vote. Unfortunately it’s an argument that has singularly failed to gain any traction either in social media discourse or in the media. Unfortunate because it really does put arguments for no in an entirely new perspective.

    I understand that the Yes campaign has endeavoured to keep the campaign positive, but I feel this is one argument that should have been casually peppering the debate from the get-go. People have a right to know how many dogs the No campaigners have in this fight.

  18. desimond says:





  19. stuart says:

    I remember our Stanley on tv when I was wee. Sounds to me like he’s turned into a selfish wee bugger. Must be the London effect

  20. Helena Brown says:

    Mike, he should have been on the same P&O cruise I was on where we, Husband and I were booed for actually have the temerity to say we were from Scotland. Not your usual football crowd either.

  21. Maureen says:

    Thank you for your common sense and rational response to this news piece. I was brought up watching and enjoying Stanley Baxter and have to say my first thoughts were ‘("Tractor" - Ed) you’ve lived OUT of and OFF of Scotland for 55 years’ when I read his views, but you have put it into perspective with reason. I can still laugh at him and the beauty of Scots is that most of us have the ability to laugh at ourselves, but NOT when it comes to Independence that is just too important an issue. Bless you for your consistently honest and tempered reports on this page, if only undecideds would read WOS they would find the answers they seek.

  22. Xaracen says:

    No, I’m no gonnae no, I’m gonnae Yes!

  23. desimond says:


    To be fair to Billy Connolly he later said it was up to the people and had stepped back a little from his “dont see sense in going smaller” style remarks made a good while back.

  24. G H Graham says:

    The World of Stanley Baxter:

    Scots & especially Glaswegians, are obviously inferior; I have made a fortune proving it by mocking them on the telly & on stage to an appreciative British audience.

    Vote NO.

  25. caz-m says:

    Robert Louis 11.21am

    That description of a Labour MP isn’t far off the description of your average Trade Union Leader.

    They are ALL self serving me me me R-Soles.

  26. steviecosmic says:

    There’s a story breaking across social media that Labour run councils in Scotland are removing people from the Electoral Register for non-payment of council tax.

    Really desperate stuff from Labour now. Surely this contravenes European legislation on Human Rights ?

  27. desimond says:

    How long before Stanley Baxter attacked by Cybernats appears in Daily Mail?

    Who is next, Ronnie Corbett?

  28. a supporter says:

    Helena Brown at 11:23 am

    “playing up the inferiority of the Glaswegian has given him a nice long life.”

    That would be difficult. One thing Glaswegionas DON’T have is an inferiority complex. They have the opposite!

  29. Anne Lawrie says:

    “…and he only comes up here for the odd funeral”. No doubt he will come here to celebrate the demise of the union! At least he’s honest about London being good to him. Wish some of the politicians would be as honest and admit they wouldn’t give up the gravy train at the expense of principles, or a better life for those who voted for them. How can so few think they can fool so many. I’m bewildered by it!

  30. Elliot Bulmer says:

    Why not offer Scottish Westminster MPs and Scottish Peers a massive payout as ‘compensation’ for their loss of leather seats and large per diems? It worked in 1707!

  31. BigRik says:

    Just a wee point, as i keep pointing out to people who say they will vote No to stay British, if you live on the big island, called Great Britain, you will always be British, just as folk from Cyprus are Cypriots, no matter their ethnicity.. if you were born and brought up on, say Skye or Mull, you are not British. Britain is simply geography, not politics.

  32. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    No no no…Yes says:

    Jim is probably calculating that it will be a YES vote in September so what job would he have?

    Leader of rump London Labour party in a foreign country?

  33. Oneironaut says:

    Hmm, I’d never even heard of Stanley Baxter until I saw this…

    Maybe the No campaign couldn’t get hold of anyone well known.
    (Or maybe all the well known ones told them to go jump off a cliff!)

  34. Andrew says:

    Hi folks,

    I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling campaign office?

    We’re still a wee bit short and your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

  35. David says:

    We once had a very well known comedian, Stanley Baxter, his style of humour might not fit the PC standards that we apply nowadays. I do remember him being very popular in Scotland and in Glasgow. Amongst other things, there was a lot of David Walliams type drag stuff before Walliams was even born and there was some send up of the Glasgow accent and lingo. I’m not sure that much of the Baxter humour would still be funny today but, of its time, it was a huge success. I think the majority of Scots enjoyed his comedy and were not offended by it.

    So let’s move on, one eighty eight year old Scot who no longer lives in Scotland and whom many of us are surprised to hear is still alive wants us to vote no, BIG DEAL! ………. Let’s accept our complex, varied and sometimes iffy cultural history and let’s vote YES for a brighter and better future.

  36. heedtracker says:

    4 page Press and journal projectfear blast over Isis terrorist from Aberdeen which has got them so excited, Baxter’s vote no stuff only gets half a page shock!

    Usual vote no or else ranty P&J but really weird full page boost for Heathrow no.2/ boris island London airport in Thames estuary and how it will all be “major boost” for Aberdeen. Christ knows how the liggers figure that but loads of royals on tour worship as per, or, it’s just another day at the UKOK coal for teamGB propaganda machine, local style.

    P&J also reporting as news itself with pages after page of where and how it reaches out to North East and beyond but is the rest of Scotland also bombarded by their relentless hard right pro UKOK propaganda?

  37. annie says:

    I can’t help but think BT put out these statements in the hope of getting people to comment against them, it gives them the excuse for another round of “nasty vile cybernats” headlines. Lets not give them what they want and just agree that Stanley’s views are no doubt coloured by his 55 years of living in London and the fact that he probably hasn’t bothered to even look into the debate.

  38. Dcanmore says:

    Ah dear old Stanley Baxter, who was even old when I saw him on telly. My Gran’s favourite and she’s been deid fur 20 years! I’m sure Stanley was only prompted for a quote in the hope that evil ‘cybernats’ would cast abuse for the benefit of the The Daily Mail headline writers. They would just go ahead and make it up anyway.

    Really they should be going after Peter Capaldi and Bill Paterson for a quote, but I’m sure they would tell the hacks GTF! Maybe they have already done so. Good to see their buddy Alex Norton come out for YES. Well I enjoy living in London and the job I have here, but that is not the point of the referendum, it is for Scotland’s self-determination and how Scotland is governed in the future, but of course for the Scottish Union politicians it is about their lifestyle and careers and they will lose it all if they lose London.

  39. Doug Daniel says:

    “It would be refreshing, however, if just once a Labour MP (or indeed a Lib Dem or the Tory)”


  40. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Eliot Bulmer

    20 silver thrupennies?

  41. Capella says:

    @steviecosmic 11.36
    There’s a story breaking across social media that Labour run councils in Scotland are removing people from the Electoral Register for non-payment of council tax.

    Bad news. Can anyone confirm whether this is legal?

  42. donald anderson says:


  43. Andy-B says:

    The Glasgow Evening Times, ran a similar story about 6 weeks ago, and Stanley Baxter said then, that he opposed Scottish independence.

  44. HandandShrimp says:

    Stanley was a good actor in his day too but is it a surprise that someone who has lived, worked and retired in London for 55 years backs No?

    He doesn’t have a vote in the matter though so it is a bit academic.

  45. Colin Mccartney says:

    Stanley Baxter sadly seems to have lost contact with reality a while back.
    He has – or maybe now had – two flats in London, one above the other, identically furnished, and moves between them. Why? Only he knows.
    Funny they didn’t mention that in today’s articles, as I don’t think many struggling scots would think much of him, despite his long past panto days.

  46. Tattie-bogle says:

    I Thought he was deid i kinda panicked a bit there, They have went from votes from the grave to quotes from the grave.

  47. Tattie-bogle says:

    I Thought he was deid i kinda panicked a bit there, They have went from votes from the grave to quotes from the grave.

  48. Helena Brown says:

    steviecosmic says: I think Stevie, you will not find you are on your own there, what do you think Robert Louis was saying. I said a good few years ago at the start that these were the worst affected and they are the ones doing all the protesting, that and those Cooncillors who see their gravy train upwards disappearing as well.

  49. steviecosmic says:


    The letter has been confirmed as real by the GCC. This apparently is being rolled out by many Labour run councils in an attempt to scupper the ‘poverty’ vote which by all indications is favouring Yes.

  50. Gillie says:

    I wonder how Stanley Baxter would describe Johann Lamont if they met?


  51. Gillie says:

    I wonder how Stanley Baxter would describe Johann Lamont if they met?


  52. Devorgilla says:

    No surprises there. Baxter has lived in London for decades. He made his fortune and his fame backed by English producers. He is an old man now and can remember the war and all the war-time camaraderie and one-nation Dunkirk spirit. He knows nothing about contemporary Scotland and lives in the metropolitan bubble. His Britain is a thing of the past, but you can’t blame the man for feeling fond of it. It’s nostalgia for what has been. But things are different now.

  53. heedtracker says:

    Getting removed from the electoral register if you’re not a Renfrewshire and Glasgow council tax payer is electoral fraud otherwise all postal voters have to be removed too. It’s called voter purging in the US and the fact that are they are doing it now so close to 18th Sept, is probably legal but clearly political. Holyrood needs to act now and investigate all unionist held councils purging voters.

  54. The Hobbit says:

    Interesting, for me as an outsider to this all, that when Scots are mocked, it’s generally the Glasgow Scots, not the Edinburgh ones. I have had Edinburgh-based colleagues quip that the Taggart catchphrase (“There’s been a murder!”) should be Glasgow City’s motto.

    It is the inequalities *within* Scotland that need more of our attention, I think.

  55. Macart says:

    And Stanley Baxter’s relevance to living in today’s Scotland is what precisely?

    I’m sure London has been good to him. I’m sure he’s one of the lucky ones who’s made a fine career and a comfy living out of his travels. Well done him. Would that we were all so fortunate.

    How and ever the rest of us mere mortals have to live with the appalling consequences of a no vote and continued mis management and the piss poor government oversight of Westminster politics. The rest of us have to live with the criminal levels of neglect and mismanagement apparent around us today and highlighted in the very last post on this site.

    As for the political insights of a man fifty five years out of touch with life in Scotland? Who is he to tell me what motivates my vote? I wouldn’t presume intimate knowledge of Mr Baxter’s personal politics simply because up until his wee release I didn’t have a clue. Mind you I didn’t have a clue he was still alive. But I would ask him, not unkindly, not to presume to speak for me.

    In short. I’m gettin’ fair seek o’ celebs tellin’ me how canny I’d be to vote no, yet how much of a dim witted, tribal, ethnic nationalist I’d be to vote yes. How about Mr Baxter pays a visit to some of his old Glasgow stomping grounds, visits the odd food bank or ten then tells us how good our government is to us?

  56. Jamie Arriere says:

    He’s a Londoner.

    He doesn’t have a vote

    No big deal


    (My God, the Ddossers are on double time today!)

  57. Doug Daniel says:

    desimond: “How long before Stanley Baxter attacked by Cybernats appears in Daily Mail?

    Who is next, Ronnie Corbett?”

    Alas, that ship has already sailed, and I must hold my hands up as the culprit. One day during the Edinburgh Fringe about 12 years ago, I was in a pub with friends before we headed off to see some comedy. On my way to the toilet, I literally bumped into the pint-sized comedian as he was walking back to the main bar.

    I fear this was my Cybernat Jedi powers kicking in. I expect I will be in the Daily Mail soon for trying to injure one of our best loved former funny-men.

  58. James Boag says:

    Why don’t we start a kickstarter campaign to fund these westminster politicians to nothing, If we take their greed out of the equation ….

  59. desimond says:

    @Doug Daniel

    hahaha, poor Ronnie, assualted by a padawan on the turn to the dark side!

  60. heedtracker says:

    Rebecca Brooks gets off Scot free so now the Sun will really come after AlicSamin and save the union?

  61. Les Wilson says:

    After a YES vote, Slab labour MP’s really do have a dilemma,
    just what will they do?

    They are not wanted here, they will not be wanted down there as a Scottish voice will be toxic in Westminster. They will lose all of their great, wealthy life and be bitter.

    However, it will be too late for them, they will be of no consequence either side of the border.
    They will disperse around the world wherever they can find a wee bolthole for themselves. Good riddance.

    For Slab MSP’S there is a little island off the West Coast, a quiet nice place, I think Westminster’s MOD tried chemical warfare out on the Island, but hey, they say that it is all clear now, maybe.
    That would suit them fine. Look on it as a worthy experiment!

  62. Jim Galt says:

    Doesn’t he remind you a wee bit of Rab C Nesbitt’s brother in law in Sidcup!

    No doubt after a few wee drams and especially at Hogmanay out will come the maudlin tears.

    Tawdry and sad are the words that spring to mind.

  63. Murray McCallum says:

    “Stanley Baxter statement a serious blow to Salmond”.

    Sorry, just trying to help Brian Taylor and his colleagues along. Has he a poster ready?

  64. galamcennalath says:

    “the campaign for the Union is being conducted almost solely by people with massive personal and financial vested interests. That’s something which isn’t true in the other direction”

    Stu has hit the nail firmly on the head with this article.

    Yes, those who feel genuinely British exist. That leaves about a third of the Scottish population still telling us they intend to vote NO. They are being encouraged to do so as part of a massive con of fear and lies perpetrated by a bunch of troughers and media bedfellows.

    For heaven’s sake … No voters … Wake up and look at the evidence all around you!

  65. chalks says:

    People voting No because they are British also fail to realise that they would retain British citizenship in the event of a Yes vote.

    It’s perhaps THE most important point to get across to these people when you are talking to them.

  66. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T Sorry Rev.

    1. Received my little silver wings badge by post today.

    2. No delivery of the UK Government postal lies.

    3. Had a requirement to visit S. Lanarkshire HQ in Hamilton. Picked up a leaflet in the waiting area detailing a pro Yes site. “” , “Yes Blantyre” and a statement by Carol Fox.

    What’s not to like.

  67. Helena Brown says:

    Doug Daniel, my advice to anyone would be let this obviously senile old Glaswegian alone, he has already out lived all of his contemporaries, the much funnier men of Scots Comedy Fame, the likes of Ricky Fulton, Chick Murray etc.

  68. Kirsty says:

    Thanks, a supporter, for that snide little comment about Glaswegians. Whilst I’m sure it wasn’t your intention, it really made the point beautifully about Glaswegians being seen as inferior!

  69. desimond says:

    Yeah Doug, stand down man, wow 🙂

  70. Les Wilson says:

    heedtracker says:

    The Brooks thing was really just a show, in my mind she was always going to be freed, just look how Westminster of all persuasions panders to the Sun to enhance their votes.
    There is your answer.

    The Sun plays a twisted game in Scotland, it tries to appeal to both sides for sales. They are without doubt in the Unionist pocket at this time, any good YES article is usually then demoted by one main, or a number of pro Unionist articles along with selected comments just to make sure.

    They are just like all the rest.Where their pocket is lined, that is where they will be.

  71. Iain (orri) McCord says:

    I don’t see how who lives at a particular address is of any concern to Council Tax records unless a discount is being claimed. As such it’d alarming if anyone is being disenfranchised in a household that is paying it’s full whack. Nor is it against the law to be registered to vote at more than one address. It’s against the law to vote more than once in a given election but that’s not the same thing. In my house we regularly get voter registration records which I duly fill in online to confirm that both my wife and I do indeed live there.

  72. Helena Brown says:

    Just received my propaganda sheet, now waiting on the usual tripe I have to bin, to pop into a LARGE brown envelope to return to Better Together. Pity it is Freepost because if it wasn’t there would be an extra pound charged for not having the right postage.

  73. Chris Cairns says:

    O/T – I’m pulling together my own wee crib sheet for canvassing and want to include the stat about what percentage of Scotland’s economy is oil & gas production (lower I seem to remember than in Norway) – but can I find the damned thing …?!
    Anyone able to point me in the right direction?
    Muchos gracias.

  74. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Kirsty, Helena Brown and A Supporter,

    I believe we have our collective knickers in a twist here.

    A by ra way, Am a Govan Panda.

  75. HandandShrimp says:


    I thought you were channelling Severin over on the Groaniard there.

    I thought both Coulson and Brooks would get off, obviously a sacrificial lamb was required. Do I think they were all involved, you might think that but I could not possibly comment.

  76. Mike says:


    I had a similar response when I was on a tour bus in Barbados full of UK tourists. Talking to a guy while getting off he asked me if I was Scottish when I said yes some arse from the back shouted Scottish bastard. you could have heard a pin drop. When I tried to find out who said it all I got was fuck off from several of the passengers. Ruined the rest of my day.

  77. galamcennalath says:

    chalks says:
    “People voting No because they are British also fail to realise that they would retain British citizenship in the event of a Yes vote.”

    Indeed. Most of their beloved UK will continue, and as you point out, they needn’t become Scottish, they can retain their UK status. They get a damned good consolation prize if it’s a Yes!

    Conversely, if there’s a No, then those of us who want self determination will win less than nothing!

  78. Iain (orri) McCord says:

    Jim Murphy being touted as next leader of Labour in Scotland might indicate that either Lamont has been found out as a liability or that she was always intended to be replaced after the referendum and only got the job in an attempt to sway woman voters.

  79. beachthistle says:

    I agree that the personal-vested-interest angle is one that has been underplayed.

    It is an issue BT are nervous of, they know it is a weakness: when I participated in a group discussion style indyref event earlier this year, a Yes supporter at the table brought the subject up (in particular Lab troughers) – the BT staffer/Director who was there immediately went very loudly on the attack (“that’s nonsense”, “nobody seriously thinks that’s a valid reason”, etc.) in a way he did not react to any other issue (and there were lots of contentious ones) discussed that day.

  80. Truth says:

    They’ve put a knife in too many backs, trampled on too many underfoot, and pushed too many aside to give it all up and actually represent the people.

    Labour MPs exist for two things, enriching themselves, and preserving the system for their buddies and the next back-stabber in line.

    It doesn’t stop at MPs either. I’m looking at you Glasgow City Council.

    We can break this cycle and it’s as easy as voting yes.

  81. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Helena Brown

    Chic Murray.

    That b’start nicked the chips off my plate in Tennent’s in Byre’s Road.

  82. muttley79 says:

    Apologies to Stanley Baxter, but I thought he was dead… It is the positive case for the Union that he has articulated, poor old Magrit Curran, Jim Murphy, Davidson, Hood etc cannot come out and say that though. Instead no scare story is too ludicrous to raise, no smear too vile, and the SNP in particular can be portrayed as Nazis, and Salmond can be compared to numerous dictators without a second thought.

  83. Helena Brown says:

    Looks like this Edinburgh woman has to apologise for the way that sounded. Mr Baxter made a living using the perceived inferiority of the Glaswegian funny to the world. The cuteness which is the Glaswegian patios etc. Sorry.

  84. Les Wilson says:

    Iain (orri) McCord says:

    I am very uncomfortable over Labour Councils buggering around with the voters roll, they MUST have an angle with this that they hope to use to their advantage.

    Labour are the most deceitful party, so this turn of events is worrying, we need to catch them at something and challenge them.

  85. Helena Brown says:

    Panda, you don’t eat chips, only bamboo or you have been lying to us all these years.

  86. Mike says:

    Nothing wrong with Baxter expressing a personal support for a No vote at all but I seriously object to the idiotic follow up comments of why he felt the need to vote no. Completely delusional and self denial. I think he couldn’t think of a genuinely respectable reason for wanting to vote no so went into haver mode.
    Most No voters cant articulate a single respectable reason for voting No it is for most of them a gut instinct they cant identify with words.

  87. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    IF you want, I change my Avatar back, for you.

  88. Helena Brown says:

    Mike, sounded a lot like ours, Vasa Museum, the guide asked where people were from. The lot said England, she then asked if any were from anywhere else, we said Scotland, Bus erupted. Then we had someone shouting Britain. Needless to say no longer going with P&O, found the atmosphere terrible. Hoping against hope we are okay on Viking in August but regardless we will stay quietly out of the way of our fellow countrymen/women.

  89. Rab c says:

    Labour need the union to govern in England
    Conservatives need the union to govern inScotland
    Lib/Dems need the union to govern anywhere
    Game set match, end of story.

  90. Nana Smith says:

    Posting this info in case anyone wants to go along.

    26 June 18.30 The House Of Commons

    One of the most important events for Britain will be taking place in September: the Scots will be able to vote for independence.

    Red Pepper and OpenDemocracy are bringing Scottish independence campaigners to the heart of the establishment, Westminster parliament, to hear their case and determination to vote Yes.

  91. Robert Peffers says:

    Isn’t it strange how so many comedians, actors and comic singers are telling Scots to vote NO. What’s more a few of them are not even properly elected MPs, MSPs, MEPs or councillors.

  92. Helena Brown says:

    Oh Bugger I like the avatar the way it is, and here am I growing a nice clump of bamboo for you. I like chips and red wine too, but the chips are out presently, diet, frightened I sink the river boat.

  93. Macandroid says:

    Telling quote courtesy of Derek Bateman:

    “Johann and Margaret Curran are in the papers today proudly announcing that their mighty Union will declare Clyde shipbuilders foreigners, throw them out of work and close the yards. And they’re smiling…Johann wears the same smile she had when opening the food bank. What pride.”

    I have words to describe these two but will not defile this website with them 🙂

  94. heedtracker says:

    @ Les Wilson, the Sun’s been going very easy on the referendum and the SNP but it’s probably because Murdoch’s got reasonable assurance on no tax hikes for newspapers post independence. It’s always like that with guys like Murdoch, why he worshipped Thatcher, was first in the back door at No.10 with Blair, Brown’s closest and most treasured family friend. Don’t tax the teamGB newspaper cartel or we’ll really fuck you up good and proper cobber.

  95. ecruden says:

    “Jock Jesters at the court of the state broadcaster” is perfection itself.

  96. desimond says:

    Iain (orri) McCord

    Dame Lamont of Lament will be looked after regardless of who is in charge, pending a No vote of course.

    Old Annabel Goldie wasnae daft when she spied that early House of Ladies exit!

  97. wingman 2020 says:


    ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’

    This question above is the ‘Surface Structure’ of the communication. It’s a simple question, and has been shown to be vulnerable to Unionist attacks.

    Is it not time that everyone in Scotland came off this faux battle field and moved onto the real battlefield?

    The ‘Deep Structure’ and real meaning(s) of the question above are as follows…

    Should Scotland be a country that continues to accept the brunt of Westminster economic incompetence?

    Should Scotland be a country that accepts the democratic deficit of the UK?

    Should Scotland be a country that accepts policies that are detrimental to Scotland and beneficial to London?

    Should Scotland be a country in control of its own destiny?

    Should Scotland be a country that looks after its own economic levers?

    Should Scotland be a country that tolerates compulsory and engineered poverty by London focussed governments?

    Should Scotland be a country without Weapons of Mass Destruction next to their biggest city?

    Should Scotland be a country where young talent has to migrate in order to prosper in a career?

    Should Scotland be a country where the news and media contribute to the country’s culture, development and success?

    Should Scotland be a country where it’s tax receipts are spent in regeneration within its own borders?

    Should Scotland be a country where the young are not immediately burdened with debt and housing problems?

    Should Scotland be a country that has a government that cares about the residents of Scotland?

    Should Scotland be a country that cannot make best use of its resources, talent, and geography?

    All these can be proven.
    Want to add more?
    No doubt there are people on Wings who can triple this list.

    We all need to come off the back-foot (NATO, EU, Currency, Pensions, Retired Comedians, Cybernats) get away from the fear, smear and sneer.
    And EVERYONE needs to start to ask these front-foot questions (YES, SNP, BfS et al)

    Reframe the debate – Should Scotland be a country that continues in this downward economic spiral?

    In the meantime, residents of Scotland are being blinded by the ‘false headlines’ and ‘deliberate omissions’ in the news.

    Perhaps we should start by asking Baxter and Connelly these questions??

  98. Ken MacColl says:

    It always a useful corrective to be reminded of the phalanx of Labour Peers -no irony here please – who grace the red benches of the HoL and favour us with occasional sermons, as does Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke today in the Herald, or, interminably, Lord Reid of Cardowan whenever he gets the chance, and the opportunity arises. There are no less than 27 of those in the second chamber -28 if you count the Lord Watson of Invergowrie who is an Independent Labour Lord. In almost every case they are redundant MPs whose political usefulness has been expended and yet they have a meal ticket for life as a result of privilege and preferment. Not surprisingly they are virulently opposed to anything that would threaten their cosy lifestyle.

    No wonder, though, that honest men can

    “look and laugh at a’ that.”

  99. ian mc says:

    Tom Contin also said it was down to that “silly film” Braveheart. Seems Mel Gibson really is a Scot like Frankie Boyle says.

  100. Colin says:

    I wrote to someone who is in the know, and no I can’t say who it was. But they responded with this.

    Hi Colin

    its not related to non-payment, but rather its related to not being at that address for council tax purposes. If you’re in arrears, then you’ll be in arrears at a particular address, and so you are identifiably there. If you’ve not returned a voter registration annual form, and your name is not listed at that address for council tax purposes, then there’s a fair chance you might not be resident at that address, and therefore shouldn’t be listed as a voter there (and you should perhaps be listed elsewhere). That said, I think the letter that has been sent is confusing, as it does seem to link the two, irrespective of arrears or not, when really the council tax record has been used to match against people who haven’t been named on a voter registration return to see if they may no longer be living there.

    Bet that clears things up, not.

  101. Michelle MacQ says:

    Stanley Baxter is entitled to his opinion but that isn’t good enough for some people let us attack him or put his career down. If he was mocking Glaswegians then it was very funny but it could be he is just mocking the people who cannot actually understand the accent perhaps because they don’t try.
    Lucky for him he has experienced no anti Scottish sentiment down South that is not true for all of us.
    I love Stanley Baxter’s films and his TV shows. I will not change my opinion on him because he if he had a vote it would be opposite to mine.
    Lets not slag people off lets try to educate them into why they would be wrong to vote no.

  102. Colin says:

    The “Bet that clears things up, not.” was me and not part of the responce.

  103. Derek M says:

    They are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel now for their celebrity endorsements,whats next the ghost of Harry Lauder says vote no.

  104. Haggis Hunter says:

    hehehe…. Jock Jesters.

  105. Liquid Lenny says:

    Chris Cairns

    In GDP terms its about 21% Scotland without oil is 99% of UK GDP calculated for population share. With oil its 120%.

    So basically at the moment, we have very similar economy as rUK but add the oil and we are 21% bigger (allowing for population share) So we don’t need the oil, its a bonus.

  106. Peter Macbeastie says:

    The funniest article of the lot was the one on the STV website.

    Headline. Baxter to vote No. Big picture of old Stan smiling.

    Few lines down in the text; ‘Baxter, who has lived in London since 1959…’ Yes, a line that points out the lie in the headline within a few short lines of the start.

    So he’s not going to vote no, now is he? Because last time I looked at a map London is several hundreds of miles from the very furthest south point of Scotland. Now, I appreciate I am not fully up date on cartographic changes but I’m pretty sure extending Scotland to the Thames might have attracted a bit of media attention.

    Although not in the BBC, they of the highly selective eyesight.

    I don’t care about Stanley Baxter. I barely remember his apparently hugely funny comedy. His view of what Scotland is like has been skewed by the better part of sixty years of absence where most of his information about Scotland will have come from the press; hardly a reliable source.

    It is also suspect that he hasn’t encountered any anti Scottish behaviour. Because I did, in spite of being in Portsmouth with it’s substantial Scottish element to the population (join the Navy, do your time, leave the Navy, stay in Portsmouth; been happening for decades.) It wasn’t common, but it was there.

    What was more common was the incredibly regular instances of hearing Jock. Slightly less common, Sweaty. Sweaty got one person a broken nose after he didn’t take the hint that I didn’t like being called that and did it again. It is offensive. The excuse that it’s rhyming slang doesn’t really cut it.

    More up to date, post Navy, I had a brief temp job at a multinational in Edinburgh. My second line manager there had to arrange a meeting at their office in London and sent out a meeting request to everyone who was supposed to attend and one of the recipients, apparently none too pleased about this meeting, made the fatal error of clicking ‘reply to all’ when she intended to moan to a colleague about it.

    Let’s just say there were interesting shockwaves when my 2nd boss got an email back that basically read ‘I’m not dropping everything to run to a meeting with that Jock bitch.’

    So if dear old Stan would like some instruction on what at least some of his adoptive neighbours think of Scotland he won’t have to look terribly hard for examples.

    But he won’t look, because he’s well out of the way and doesn’t need to.

  107. Jill P says:

    Stanley makes the independence point. He had to move to London as Scotland didn’t have the opportunities he needed. That’s a reason for YES, surely.

    I’ve also received my BT propaganda today. I’m upset. It was just delivered by the postman. Not personally addressed. How impersonal 🙁 I at least hoped to be named and addressed properly.
    I will properly address it for return.

  108. heedtracker says:

    Bet that clears things not, is exactly right. The postal vote is not conditional on paying council tax because people leave Scotland for varying lengths of time and rent out their hooses leaving all taxes due to the council with the tennnant This is total bullahit from Glasgow council.

    The electoral register people are just like the HMRC tax man, they take your word for it.

    HMRC takes almost everyone at their word because they don’t have the man power and resources to check everyone unless they have very good reason. This is exactly the same with electoral registration unless, they are up to something and to start purgeing voters this close to the referendum means they have a cunning plan.

  109. jon esquierdo says:

    Never before have so many been shafted by so few

  110. steviecosmic says:

    More from STV on the letters being sent out in Glasgow with an official statement from the council.

  111. Hobbit says:

    I have Edinburgh colleagues who joke about Glasgow that its official city motto should be, “There’s been a murder!” (the Taggart catchphrase). It is interesting that Glasgow is far more a topic for the comedians’ wit than Edinburgh.

    Which brings me theough to one major issue we’ve avoided. Not the inequalities between England and Scotland, but those /within Scotland itself/. How do we intend to deal with those?

  112. Vestas says:

    Anyone who left Scotland 55 years ago is a complete irrelevance to the independence debate – whether they advocate Yes or No.

    He made his choice which he’s obviously happy with, so any views which he may have are as relevant to the debate as those of the pandas in the zoo.

  113. crazycat says:

    @ Colin

    I think the registration issue is to do with the introduction of Individual Voter Registration, which is due to take place after the referendum but before the 2015 General Election.

    I read somewhere that there has been an undertaking that no-one will be arbitrarily removed from the roll (and thus unable to vote next year) purely for having failed to register under the new system, because it is potentially confusing and has not been well-advertised (surprise!).

    So councils will carry existing registrations over into the next edition of the roll, unless they know the person is no longer eligible at that address. One way of trying to establish this is by looking at the council tax records.

    Superficially, this is a good, helpful thing that they are doing, to maximize registration for 2015 . They want to tidy things up well in advance. Unfortunately, it also provides an opportunity for misunderstanding……

  114. Taranaich says:

    @Rev: We have no quibbles with anyone who votes No because they feel British, consider Britain to be their country and want to keep it that way. That’s an honest, legitimate view which deserves neither scorn nor pity.

    I would respect that point of view if they would then take their stance of Britain being a country to its logical conclusion – that is, end the United Kingdom as it is (a political union of four countries) and form a new country. Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are no longer countries, but regions: no more football teams, no more National Trusts or Heritage organisations delineated by borders, no more distinct NHS or laws or education.

    Seriously. If you think Great Britain is the country, then Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland cannot also be countries, right? That being the case, how can we possibly have a single country with multiple parliaments, legal systems, education systems, and the like?

    @Capella: There’s a story breaking across social media that Labour run councils in Scotland are removing people from the Electoral Register for non-payment of council tax.

    Christ almighty. See, THIS is the only problem I have regarding devolving more power to councils in an independent Scotland – we MUST stop despicable actions like this from happening. Then again, we’d surely have much more power to do things about it as an independent country than having our hands tied by Westminster.

    I’m sure, of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that Radical Independence has made momentous headway in encouraging people most likely to have problems with council tax (i.e. the most poverty-stricken) to get out and vote – and, coincidentally, most of them seem to be voting Yes. But that can’t be it, can it?

  115. Iain Mc says:

    On the Council Tax / Electoral Register thing:
    Electoral registration offices have to keep the register accurate and up to date. One of the ways they do that is by getting information from the Council Tax office about changes of tenancy – it tells them when somebody moves out of a property and when other people move in. It’s not about whether you’ve paid your bill, it’s about who is liable to pay it.

    By law, that information is not enough to remove somebody from the register. On receiving information that somebody has left a property, or may no longer be resident, that letter is sent giving them 14 days to confirm they still live there.

    If the information is incorrect for whatever reason, and they are still resident, all they have to do is call the number on the letter within 14 days and that’s the end of it, they will remain registered. If there’s no response in 14 days, or the letter comes back marked Gone Away, only then will the person’s name be removed.

    This is standard practice, has been for years, there’s no conspiracy here.

  116. Colin says:

    @steviecosmic says:
    24 June, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Thanks for clearing that up for us, I can stop sending my letters of complaint to all and sundry now 😉

  117. Ian Sanderson says:

    @ steviecosmic I think this puts a different slant on things…

  118. Ian Sanderson says:

    @ steviecosmic my apolgies, went straight to the bottom of the comments and fired my previous off b4 I noticed your amendment to your original post

  119. NODROG says:

    @Capella: There’s a story breaking across social media that Labour run councils in Scotland are removing people from the Electoral Register for non-payment of council tax.

    Some of the latest polls show that support for independence is very strong in the poorest areas of Scotland and in particular around Glasgow. I wonder who controls most of those areas and who would have the most to gain from this rumoured action? Could be worthy of investigation Stuart?

  120. Chris Cairns says:

    @Liquid Lenny – cheers. Someone else pointed me towards a Scot Gov briefing with the thing I was after.
    Oil & Gas account for 15% of Scottish tax revenue – for Norway it’s 30%.
    But your stat is equally useful. 🙂

  121. Jamie Arriere says:

    Well, now that we’ve heard the lowdown from one old panto star, maybe we should hear what the front end of the horse thinks. 🙂

  122. MochaChoca says:

    Do any NO ‘camp’ celeb endorsements come from famous men who are not partial to appearing in a frock?

  123. Hobbit says:


    Some of the latest polls show that support for independence is very strong in the poorest areas of Scotland and in particular around Glasgow. I wonder who controls most of those areas and who would have the most to gain from this rumoured action? Could be worthy of investigation Stuart?

    Yes, and it has been understood for some time that support for independence in the well-off areas – notably Edinburgh – is a lot weaker than average. I am not sure that Yes Scotland has got its head around that difference yet.

  124. dennis mclaughlin says:

    What’s Stanley’s cringe factor then …..These ‘Scots’ make you boak.

  125. Muscleguy says:

    Yes but Coulson is guilty of phone hacking. Which means he perjured himself at the Tommy Sheridan trial. Once proceedings at the Old Bailey are over he will be in a prison transport up to Edinburgh iirc to stand trial for that. Mr Sheridan is reported to be preparing to challenge his conviction. I expect he followed the trial now concluding very carefully and was advised of the probable result.

    My heart fails to bleed for Coulson and his legal troubles.

  126. SquareHaggis says:


    Never fear wee man, once ye’ve drappit thon ring o power intil the bowels o mount doom, tean oot Saruman an vanquished the evil Sauron, ah’m shure we’ll aw dae jist fine

  127. heedtracker says:

    @ Muscleguy, so Coulson heads for the slammer and one more teamGB journalist in prison, does not make any of this nightmare right. The whole GB press and BBC shebang is a tax dodging dysfunctional pile of unregulated garbage and all owned by a very few very rich tax evaders.

    But no doubt Jon Snow and the gang will have duct tape over their gobs on C4 news this evening protesting about poor old Coulson too.

  128. Seepy says:

    Stanley Baxter shows that, as a political commentator, he has not lost his comedy touch

  129. TJenny says:

    Hobbit – chin up. Hobbit – in – Chief, Elijah Wood, has today told Scots to go for indy. 🙂 (Unfortunately it’s in the Hootsmon, so no link)

  130. Freedom Lover says:

    Wings you should be ashamed of abusing & vilifying an aged comedic gentleman like Sir Stanley ( surely he’s been knighted after doing the Lizzy drag act for so long- no?). But seriously the use of words & phrases like “canny scots” ( isn’t that the kind of rhetoric that sunk with the SS Politician in Whisky Galore?) He assures us that only Scots say bad things & the English never say bad things about the Scots. Like ever. But we Scots just “don’t know any better”. Then he makes the obligatory unionist remark about Braveheart “it’s all because of that wretched film”- that’s why well over a million people want independence then: we believe everything Mel Gibson says. What are we Scots like? Too much Irn Bru & Braveheart is to blame. He also compares the independence campaign to “ethnic & tribal wars”, “immense massacres”, using words like “awful”, “visceral” & reducing it all to “romantic ethnicity”- how very condescending. Aren’t we Scots such petty provincials. Then goes onto further compare the struggle for political autonomy to the rise of fascism in Hungary.
    Isn’t this just the insane ramblings of an old out of touch man who hasn’t lived in Scotland for fifty five years- I can’t say he has his finger on the pulse to be honest, but at least he knows what side his breads buttered- “don’t bite the hand that feeds ya” comes to mind.

  131. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    I guess Stanley won’t be at the 20th / 700th anniversary Braveheart showing in Edinburgh this evening.

    But somebody who received their Wings badge today (thanks Rev) will be …

  132. Viking Girl says:

    Am I the only person who has noticed that a lot of these guys who back ‘No’ are doing it from a position of serious self-interest to the point that they don’t notice that it’s blindingly obvious to everyone else? Egotistical is the word I’m looking for. It reaches its zenith coming from the folk, like the leaders of large companies for example, that say that they will leave Scotland if we achieve independence. They really do think they are indispensable even when they no longer live here, and incidentally, I’ve always enjoyed Baxter, but I thought the Parliamo Glesga thing was a bit patronising, and I do believe that Scots has become the language of comedy up here, where it was once the language of the Scottish Royal Court.

  133. Andrew Morton says:

    In the bar at Gifford Golf Club this morning. Group of retired men at a nearby table having a discussion about various things. I wasn’t listening but my ears pricked up when one man started ranting loudly about how independence is all the idea of that Alex Salmond and if it wasn’t for him we wouldn’t be having the referendum and more besides.

    Isn’t interesting that it’s the convinced No voters who rant the loudest in public and say some pretty nasty stuff too? Talking to a No voter in Musselburgh High Street on Saturday (well dressed, well spoken woman in her late 70s) and asked her why she was voting No, she looked at me pityingly and said,

    “You’re a bit thick, aren’t you?”

    Up till that point I had been exceedingly polite, but I responded,

    “I’ve been patronised by better people than you madam.”

    She wandered off with a sneer on her gub.

    The other people on the stall all told me stories about being shouted at and crowded by no voters who are plainly frightened at the prospect of a Yes vote.

  134. Stoops says:

    Is Stanley Baxters’ point of view, having spent so much time in London, a form of Stockholme Syndrome? Or is it Jock-home Syndrome?

    Just wanted to say that.

  135. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Jockshome syndrome

    Just wanted to say that.

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    Now don’t ask me why but my wee papillon runs to the screen and barks at the TV only when the England Football team are playing. I don’t have a TV licence so only watch some things in my mate’s house.

    He wouldn’t believe me until he saw it for himself today. Now he’s asking me the serious question, if the wee dog is supporting England or, like many other Scots, cheering on their opposition.

    Anyone know how I can find out as I don’t speak papillion so as to ask her?


  137. wingman 2020 says:

    @Andrew Morton

    “You’re a bit thick, aren’t you?”

    Brilliant.. I can just hear the accent.

  138. t00z says:

    There is a distinct chance that my current employment may be in jeopardy should we vote Yes (and thats not a statement to shock or to incur martyrdom, its simply a fact due to the nature of my work).
    However, I will still be voting Yes as i’ve grown up amidst the misery and been there myself previously and if i did not stand up for my child’s future now how can i look him in the eye when he grows and tell him I could have made a difference but was utterly selfish.
    Thats what the ones living off the gravy train are doing, looking after themselves and to hell with the population, to hell with a fair society, to hell with the impoverished…i’m all right jack.
    I just hope that particular rug is pulled from under their hypocritical and capitalist feet. They will see how much their paymasters care about them then.

  139. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Independence is Hobbit forming!

    OT – My wee piece of UK propaganda is in a nice brown envelope
    marked FREEPOST heading for Better Together in Glasgow.

  140. punklin says:

    Well, I think Stanley Baxter used to be very funny but things move on, as he chose to, and that’s just fine and dandy…

  141. Jim Savage says:

    “But the 53 MPs of all the Unionist parties in Scotland will lose their livelihoods.”

    Scottish labour began their selection process last Autumn for the Scottish election in May 2016. Maybe they were protecting their jobs – and anticipating a Yes result in September.

    A pretty effective ‘You’re snookered” to their comrades in Westminster.

  142. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Baxter was never funny. It was just that the rest of the programs were so dire. Try watching the Black and White minstrel show now.

    They seem to have a thing about men in drag in the South. So that most likley why he made a living there.

  143. Dal Riata says:

    According to the Daily Mail; Daniel Radcliffe has advised Scots to vote against separation.

    “advised”…? ROFL!

    Then there’s the Stanley Baxter Scottish-dinosaur quotations.

    Followed by this:

    Also in the Radio Times, TV historian [Simon] Schama said of nationalism: “It’s horrible. I hate tribal identities. I don’t get on with those who want to plant a flag in a piece of the world and adopt a tribal identity.
    If nation states are devolving into the Scots and the English, the Flemish and the Waloons, that’s an awful, surprising return to the most visceral, romantic ethnicity left over fronm the 19th century. It’s a dangerous reaction against globalisation.”

    “I don’t get on with those who want to plant a flag in a piece of the world and adopt a tribal identity.”

    What, you mean that ‘piece of the world’ that has been called Scotland for, oh, quite a while, and which will, according to you, ‘adopt a tribal identity’? And you ‘don’t get on with’ people who live in such a ‘piece of the world’…? Really? Okay, here’s the deal: you don’t bother your arse coming to Scotland and that will give us all the chance to not ‘get on with’ each other. Deal? Yes? Good!

    This from Simon Schama, staunch supporter of Israel, a country and people he has no problem ‘getting on with’. Funny that, eh, when his – “… those who plant a flag in a piece of the world and adopt a tribal identity.” – sounds exactly like a description of Israel and its coming into being.

    Oh, and: “Schama is a supporter of the Labour Party, donating £2,000 to Oona King’s bid to become Labour’s candidate fro the 2012 London Mayoral election.”

  144. Humac says:

    Stanley Baxter’s a comic genius. Doesn’t mean he’s not an idiot.

  145. Grouse Beater says:


    I’ll translate for those ignorant of Glasgowease.

    “Is that not a bummer Ah’m tellin’ yous vote no.

    And in correct English: I don’t do my own thinking, the Labour party do that for me. That’s why I’ll be putting my ‘X’ firmly against my own interests and my country.

    So up yours, pal.

  146. Stoops says:

    Dal Riata says:
    24 June, 2014 at 6:44 pm
    According to the Daily Mail; Daniel Radcliffe has advised Scots to vote against separation.

    Daniel Radcliffe “advised”!!! He must be, what? 20 years old? Who the hell is he to advise anyone?

    Voldemort should have kicked his wee erse into touch when he had the chance!

  147. Krackerman says:

    “Stanley Baxter’s a comic genius.”

    Sorry but when did this happen? I’ve seen some of his ancient material – it’s just borderline racism designed to pander to an English superiority complex that was prevalent from 1940-1980…

    He’s an Uncle Tom – nothing more – his career died the day racism became unfashionable for comedy…

  148. Iain (orri) McCord says:

    I suppose the main problem in divide and rule tactics when it comes to Scotland is that our mythology is rife with stories of clans who are otherwise enemies uniting against a common foe. When your image is, in part, based on a textile allegedly indicating a tribal affiliation it’s bordering on the insulting to actually criticise that part of our psychological make up.
    It’s also perhaps worth mentioning that the Commonwealth nations are in effect the result of an nationalism. Yet at the same time joining together. Perhaps Schama should be asked to speak at the opening ceremony and explain why he thinks all the competing nations are independent due to a mistake.

  149. Taranaich says:

    “It’s horrible. I hate tribal identities. I don’t get on with those who want to plant a flag in a piece of the world and adopt a tribal identity.
    If nation states are devolving into the Scots and the English, the Flemish and the Waloons, that’s an awful, surprising return to the most visceral, romantic ethnicity left over fronm the 19th century. It’s a dangerous reaction against globalisation.”

    Schama, like many others, genuinely doesn’t seem to understand that desire for greater democratic accountability doesn’t necessarily equate to ethnocentrism or tribalism. Or is Schama calling for the UK, France, Germany et all to submerge themselves into one big blob called Europe?

  150. Paula Rose says:

    I like a bit of tribal fashion and dancing – ooh look a morris man!

  151. JWil says:

    Stanley Baxter’s punch line from his Scottish radio days seems particularly appropriate. “Sausages are the boys.” It has about as much gravitas as his declaration for NO.

  152. I’ve had a go over at Logic’s Rock at Parliamo Berraragerra – Speaking Better Together.

  153. Ian Brotherhood says:

    re Simon Schama,

    I had one of his books once, called ‘Landscape & Memory’. It was in Bargain Books for £3 or something. Nice heavy large format paperback with a lot of very good illustrations.

    Sadly, I didn’t understand what he was on about. His writing style reminded me of guys like Harold Rosenberg and Clement Greenberg, who were largely responsible for the critical framework supporting American Abstract Expressionism and were surely two of the finest bullshitters to have ever walked the earth.

    Schama’s entitled to his opinion on our referendum – every bit as much as we are entitled to tell him to keep his face out of it.

  154. Meindevon says:

    Feel a bit sad to hear how Baxter has a contorted view of his homeland now.

    I grew up when his Christmas show was legendary and not to be missed. Parliamo Glasgow was one of my favourite parts. It was funny to me because I thought we were laughing at the posh Englishman (maybe that’s not politically correct!) not the Glaswegian.

    It would appear that all the time he was belittling his ain folk.

  155. Hetty says:

    Only one thing to add to this nonsense, this so called celeb stuff is really scraping the barrel, who ever heard of this guy anyway outside of panto? Embarrassing if this is the level of debate now, from the bt lot!

  156. The Blether says:

    This guy represents yesterday.

    Re the comments about featherbedding politicians and union leaders. Go have a look at the list of Labour MP’s that have served in parliament over the last 40 years.

    I lay you short odds that just about every single one of those still living are millionaires. Many of them are multi-millionaires.

    I’ve no doubt that Stanley Baxter is also a multi-millionaire. Does anyone have the time and resources to go check this out? It’s time to expose the rank hypocrisy of the “party of the people.”

    A millionaire cartel only interested in self-preservation.

  157. harryhenhouse says:

    Stanley Baxter is one of Scotland’s best loved comedians.

    He did not poke fun at Scotland but portrayed the Glasweigen dialect in a positive and funny way long before Rab C. Nesbitt. He did shows that were ratings hits on the BBC for about 15 years and he was Mr Majeika.

    Although his comedy is dated now, he was the last of the variety entertainers who made it to television.

    Stanley Baxter’s punchline wasn’t “Sausages are the boys”, that was Jimmy Logan. Please understand the historical context and significance of who you are writing about rather than rubbishing them because of their political choice.

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