Partial justice
It’s now official that blogger and former diplomat Craig Murray has been found guilty on several charges of contempt of court (although also cleared of several others).
It is of course not for this site to question the judgement of Lady Dorrian (while noting that the verdict may well be subject to appeal and is therefore not yet final), although we do find some aspects of it somewhat troubling – particularly paragraph 74 in which the fate of a defendant appears to be held hostage to the speculative “imagination” of a hypothetical observer.
But it’s not the conviction (NB we are not lawyers and the strange civil/criminal hybrid that is the offence of contempt of court makes the correct terminology somewhat uncertain) of Craig Murray that’s the true cause for concern in this matter.
What’s alarming, as this site has noted previously, is the highly selective and partisan eye with which the Crown Office appears to be pursuing the offence.
Only two people have so far been “petitioned” (which we do believe to be the correct term) for contempt with regard to the trial of Alex Salmond – Craig Murray and Clive Thomson, who is already serving a six-month term after apparently having tweeted the names of one or more complainers.
(We say “apparently” because we don’t know of anyone who’s actually seen the tweets and so we have no idea of what they said beyond what’s been reported in the press.)
Both men are supporters of Mr Salmond. Yet at least 12 other people – all of them professional journalists subject to the Editors’ Code Of Practice which Lady Dorrian’s judgement makes repeated reference to – have also published material which beyond any question enables so-called “jigsaw identification” of at least three complainers.
In all but one case, only a single other piece of information – which is widely and freely available – is required to identify at least one complainer.
In the remaining case, the “jigsaw” only actually had one piece, because the journalist in question, James Doleman of Byline Times, simply tweeted her name directly.
Lady Dorrian’s judgement is expressly and repeatedly clear that no intent is required for contempt to have been committed.
James Doleman’s careless tweet caused the trial to be disrupted to the point where it was actually stopped and Lady Dorrian had to pass a Section 11 anonymity order which had not previously been in effect. Yet Doleman was merely banished from the court for the rest of the trial, not petitioned for contempt.
Lady Dorrian drew a clear distinction between “jigsaws” with many pieces and those with fewer, noting that the latter were more serious in contempt terms.
But in all the other cases this site is aware of and has previously highlighted, reporters published comments which required only ONE other piece of freely-available information to name a complainer.
We will not republish the information here, although by our understanding of the law it would not constitute an offence to do so (as the information is in the public domain), precisely because this site has been supportive of Alex Salmond and we therefore do not trust the Crown Office not to undertake a malicious prosecution against us purely as an intimidatory act, even if it had no prospect of conviction.
It has, after all, very recent – and undisputed – form in that area.
But those responsible are:
Philip Sim (BBC Scotland)
Dani Garavelli (Scotland On Sunday)
Severin Carrell (The Guardian)
Steve Bird (The Telegraph)
Izzy Lyons (The Telegraph)
Mure Dickie (Financial Times)
Paul Hutcheon (Daily Record)
Dave Mackay (Press & Journal)
Kieran Andrews (The Times)
Kenny Farquharson (The Times)
Magnus Linklater (The Times)
We’ve made these allegations before, dating back almost a year. Not one of the journalists has brought, or even threatened, a defamation case against us, because we could prove – definitively, unarguably and within a matter of seconds – that every one of them has committed contempt via jigsaw identification, and that they recklessly continued to do so even when alerted to the fact.
(None of the articles in question had been edited to remove the identifying information at the time of writing this piece. Indeed, not one of journalists named above has even asked us to specify the details of the identification.)
Lady Dorrian also made clear in her judgement that accidental identification was only relevant in terms of mitigation of sentence, not in determining guilt.
Yet the Crown Office has admitted on the public record that it has not spoken to any of the journalists in question to ask them to remove the identifying information, far less petition them for an offence – even though some of them had somewhat ironically made extremely belligerent statements about contempt and will, we’re sure, issue pious condemnations of Craig Murray on his conviction for the exact same offence they themselves have committed.
It also KNOWS that this information leads to jigsaw identification, because it has taken several steps to semi-conceal the other part of the jigsaw, although we are again erring very conservatively on the side of safety by not detailing these steps here.
A Crown Office which has already openly admitted malicious and partial prosecutions behaving in such a transparently biased manner casts shade not only on itself but on the integrity of the entire Scottish justice system.
Lady Dorrian can only try those brought before her, and as we’ve already noted we are not challenging her judgement. But whether Craig Murray is guilty or innocent is not ultimately the issue here. The question is whether all in Scotland are equal before the law. It appears increasingly beyond any reasonable dispute that they are not.
And such a Scotland is no country for honest men.
How the Crown Office have any power over you when you live in England?
I remember the Sunday Herald – back when it was a newspaper – published details of an English super-injunction and they couldn’t touch them.
(Genuine question, btw!)
“How does the Crown Office. . . ” D’oh!
Probably a silly question; Can the Crown Office be petitioned by a member of the public to take action against the journalists listed above?
Well, selective prosecution of political opponents is the surest marker there is of leftist authoritarian government. And that’s the government you would have in an independent, SNP-run Scotland.
Absolute spot on conclusion.
What I find difficult to undersand is that the very judge who issued the anonymity orders can then go on to judge someone who is accused of breaching them.
Quite conceivably a defence could have been that the orders were in some way illegal or unfair. The judge who issued them is hardly going to agree that they are.
@Pablo Dem (7.36) –
Maybe it is a silly question, but you just beat me to it!
😉
Is Lady Dorian not guilty of jigsaw identification herself when talking of a person’s nickname leading to their identification?
I’ve had *so* many arguments wiht people on Twitter today claiming Criag is ‘innocent’ and further that because others were ‘guilty’ of the same offence that somehow presents a defence for Craig. It clearly doesn’t. Whataboutery is *not* a defence.
As much as I like Craig he has been found guilty.
The zoomer from Rosyth got 6 months for actually maliciously naming the women.
You’d think thats the maximum that Craig may be sentenced. He never went as far as zoomer, but he does have a wider reach.
I hold out hope he gets a fine we can crwod-fund (assuming that is an option for Lady Dorrian – which I believe it is).
Lastly. Thanks Stu for laying out so eloquently what I’ve been saying all day on Twitter. If we accept the judgements of Lady Dorrian in the AS cases, then we can’t just say this one is wrong because we like Craig. Thats a path the yoons have been on since AS was cleared.
Its a shame. He’s been found guilty.
The *REAL STORY* here is not why Craig is guilty, but why there appears to have been a clear case of selective prosecution. Its shocking.
Scarry stuff indeed. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Incoming from Mr Doleman in 3… 2… 🙂
Scotland is now run by the Murrell mafia clan. James Wolffe is the dutiful consigliere. At leat in the film “
Unimpeachable argument in my view. Selective justice is not justice. And the dates chosen for judgement and sentence are extremely convenient for political purposes. Funny that. Garavelli led many people to identify one person, as was widely remarked on at that time, thus alerting people who wanted to know to read her easily available piece. Her identification was far more overt than Craig’s – in fact, because I have no insider knowledge, I still don’t know who Craig was referring to. Only those who do would probably realise, and as the court does know who they are, they are biased to see the id in his comments in a way none of the general public will be.
Another low in the reputation of the Scottish legal system and its relation to the executive. The law is supposed to apply equally to all, without fear or favour. But not here.
@Pablo Dem
What not indeed?
Serious question: in this looking glass world we’re now forced to inhabit, does describing someone simply as “Woman X” amount to jigsaw identification (given that women only comprise half the population)?
Athanasius at 7.38…
‘Well, selective prosecution of political opponents is the surest marker there is of leftist authoritarian government.’
What, like Germany in the 1930s?
Isn’t it odd that it took 7 weeks to reach a verdict, notably just one week after the Inquiry and Hamilton submitted their reports.
And isn’t it odd that a sentence will not be passed until after the election results will be known.
It almost looks like Craig’s fate depends on Sturgeons.
Just a thought.
As Alex has standing in this case could he not send a lawyer to court on the 7th to inform the Court that, on the basis of what happens to Craig, he may be able to inform the Court of other contempts committed?
You may point them out til you are blue in the face but you have no standing. It has to be the Crown, Alex or an alphabet woman.
Dear Craig Murray, I’m not rich, but I’ve got a twenty here for you, the moment you ask for it. You too Stu.
‘Equiparated’!
Conversations with almost anyone about any of this:
me – “would you trust the Scottish legal system with your innocence?”
them – “the media’s to blame here though”.
me – “would you trust the Scottish media with your proven innocence?”
them – “Salmond admitted to being inappropriate though”
me – “…which you learnt about through the distorted lens of the Scottish media.”
them – “…we should be focussing on independence.”
In 2003, when so many people became aware and angry, they asked questions. They probed, argued, delved, marched, berated. It was righteous anger in the cause of justice and human rights. Here we are now and people you’ve marched alongside can’t even bring themselves to acknowledge what’s going wrong before their very eyes in the systems that are supposed to safeguard their *own* innocence and human rights. It’s nightmarish.
Can this get dirtier , no answer required , not even on a postcard , as I’ve said before I’m not hugely politically minded, far less legally aware , but this reeks
Scotland is now run by the Murrell mafia clan. They live in a luxury pad in the east-end of Glasgow somewhere. James Wolffe is their dutiful “Consigliere”. They can contact James Wolffe at any time day or night. Tom Hagan was the Consigliere in The Godfather and he was a cool dude and he got some unpleasant things done for Don Corleone. James Wolffe is a scruffy poundshop fanny of a man. He just makes a mess of everything. Police Scotland are the gangsters. They just make a mess of everything too.
Even if Independence is a good idea in principle, it becomes a non-starter with this single party governance system currently in place.
What will be scary is when Lady Dorian reports on the proposed ‘Rape Courts’ after consulting with the likes of Rape Crisis Scotland and Women’s Aid.
The chance of a fair trial when a person that falsely accused someone of rape is so well protected and ‘believe women’ is the basis of a conviction is unlikely.
Hopefully men will stick to jobs that these strong and brave women think are beneath them.
Golly.
The SNP have become poison.
The antidote is: No votes SNP.
Craig was never interested in revealing names. He made that clear. What he felt was his public duty as a journalist, and one who values truth and the public right to know about their officials, is their right to know the roles and and relationships of those individuals to power. That is directly relevant to the whole scandal.
For that, he is being hounded, because if anything it is the smoking gun. Not their names or identities. As others have remarked the anonymity clause is being used as a tool of camouflage, rather than any real concern for the identities, and continues to be. Garavelli and co, though sailing much closer to the wind than Craig in their contempt of court and identifying people, didn’t threaten the executive’s version of the story. That is the difference. Craig threatens their carefully constructed smokescreen.
Lady Dorrian is doing her job, and i don’t question it. She is judging what is put before her. The question is who got up the charge and put it before her, and on whose direction.
I’m somewhat concerned by a legal judgement written by someone who doesn’t know the difference between a successor and a predecessor (para 74).
I care about independence but I care more about my little granddaughter having to share a dressing room with a cock in a frock
Let me say that Roddy Dunlop emerges from this fandango looking OK. The Scottish legal profession is awash with shit at the moment, paid for by us and dutifully serving Swinney and the Murrells. Roddy Dunlop keeps them all at bay (including Swinney and the Murrells) with a long smelly stick. If only they were a few more like him we’d all feel a lot more at ease in this fetid wee country.
When there is such blatant bias, no wonder vast numbers if people now feel that there is stinking corruption in the crown office.
the PDF, first half is a blizzard of pedantry and legalese hairsplitting, with reference to various precedents, the main one seeming to be something about a minister who got caught at the cottaging; the only interesting thing in the first part is
THE MYSTERY OF JUROR 5
– about which we must never know nuthin; if you are out there mate – VPN, TOR and post your side on an anonymous chatboard in mongolia
It also takes exteme pains to suggest Murray is “not really a real proper journalist …” – and that he has no credentials or right to be there.
the second part is the “meat” – and it just says CM was trying to “dog whistle” and do “nudge nudge wink wink” with his Yes Minister inspired skit. So he is guilty, its contempt.
I don’t see any discussion about anything else, or the disgusting and infuriating “selective application” of the law when it comes to certain people.
Captain Yossarian says:
Can’t agree with you more, Rody Dunlop’s twitter is always a breath of fresh air as he lives and beleives in proper law.
There needs to be an utter clear out of the corrupt Scottish establishment.
Starting wi the murrels.
These people fear the truth. Lets keep exposing them.
Well done stu for showing again the inconsistency in the crown office.
Remain brave Mr. Murray. Men if good conciencecand actions face several trials, but will be honoured for sticking with the truth.
It would probably need to be one of the alphabet women who would have to complain to the police about an actual instance of jigsaw identification resulting from one of more of these journalists’ articles.
I can’t see how a member of the public has any standing to complain to the police. You might as well go down to your local station and say that you believe it is your civic duty to complain about the existence of a lot of crime going on and assure them that whilst they go out and investigate it all, you’ll hang around and wait for them to bring in all the criminals.
@ Cath at 8.05
Yes, I wondered about that.
It also occurred to me that “the nickname given to that person is one which would require very little imagination to link with one of the complainers” is true if you already know who the complainers are, as Lady Dorrian does, and are thus in no need of jigsaws.
I’m not at all sure it helps anyone who hasn’t the faintest idea who they are.
Athanasius says at 7.38
Well selective of political opponents is the surest marker there is of leftist authoritarian government.
try checking Germany in the 1930s.
it doesn’t need to be either left or right wing just completely corrupt as we have at present.
When the politicians control the legal profession it shows how far the rot has penetrated.
Don’t Vote SNP.
Look around at different candidates to see who is most likely to reverse the damage the SNP have done.
This election has got to be about righting all of Sturgeon’s wrongs.
We know the usual bullshit will be in the SNP Manifesto.
We will be promised a referendum in the not too far away future in a land called Never Never Land.
Let’s hope she loses her own seat.
“And such a Scotland is no country for honest men.”
You had hope that there was no way that Hamilton could rule there was no breach of code, yet that was exactly what the crook did.
The only power the “sovereign” plebs of Scotland have is of voting in an election or referendum if and when one is offered to them.
Many of us have deep faith in your judgements of issues.
Please now give us your opinion as to how to use the constituency and list votes in the coming election to have the maximum possible effect to move back Scotland towards a country for honest men to live in.
With due apologies, and with the danger of being duly, and no doubt rightly accused of being a total and pedantic bore, below is a contribution I posted earlier today on the btl comments on the previous article. For the first ever time, I seem to have been almost ‘ahead of the game’, or even ‘too early’ with my comment. I usually manage to post only at the end, when the owner of this site is just about to put up another article, or has already done so, and everybody else has quite rightly moved on (or is just about to do so).
Anyway, here is what I posted:
wull says:
25 March, 2021 at 1:19 pm
Never having been any use at jigsaws, or even interested in them, I have been quite unable to identify anyone. A couple of days ago, looking for something else, I stumbled on a site which explicitly identified one of the complainers by name, giving the letter of the alphabet that related to her. I was so astonished I did not even take note of the website, and haven’t a clue how to navigate back there (computers, and how they work, are in the same category as jigsaws for me!).
Nor do I have any desire to find it again anyway. The issue doesn’t interest me, and I don’t need to know who any of the complainers were.
What does interest me is the question of selective prosecution. If the names of complainers are still being openly bandied about on the web today, so long after the trial, why is Craig Murray the only person being prosecuted?
I almost said ‘Why is Craig Murray the only person being prosecuted for it?’ – but if I had, the ‘for it’ would be wrong. As far as I understand it, Craig Murray never went nearly as far as the website I stumbled on the other day. He never did mention any name of any of the complainers, nor did he attach any name to a letter of the alphabet. All he is supposed to have done is to have said something or other through which some other people, if they were good at jigsaws, might use to guess who one or another or even three or four of the complainers might be.
Yet I would not be surprised if there are people who read all the articles in question which Craig posted on his blog who are still – like I was until I stumbled on that other blogsite, nothing to do with Craig Murray, the other day – completely in the dark about the identity of any of the complainers.
Granted the political implications of this and other selective prosecutions, this surely has to be a matter to be taken up with (and publicised by) Amnesty International and other relevant and high profile international bodies.
Even though I am lousy at jigsaws, I think I am beginning to identify a strong link between the inordinate and unusual delay in Lady D’s arriving at a judgement in such a simple matter and the fact that the sentencing will not take place until the day after the election. Can somebody please help me – do these two pieces somehow fit together?
I have tried to identify the Alphabet women through Craig’s blogs but I’m at a loss?
Don’t read the other media ‘rags’ so obviously missing something. If I do my research on these ‘dud’ msm journalist’s and do reach conclusions who these women are, can I be a ‘witness’ in Craig’s appeal, as a defence witness?
You often hear that the Scots are highly politically aware – but we maybe still have lessons to learn about power, power hidden and unseen, and exercised behind closed doors, where, as recent events have shown, the truth is hidden.
Equally, the law when applied in a manner which appears discriminatory is of huge concern, and again recent events illustrate how concerning.
Scotland, and its people, have long suffered from such power, and discrimination – it’s time for change, fundamental change.
7 weeks seems a long time for reports. It’s usually 3, exceptionally 4.
I can only comment on what I read in Craigs Yes Minister spoof and his daily reports of the Alex Salmond trial. I identified one complainer in the Spoof, which i think is the nickname referred to above and another in the Blog which gave details of another complainer using jigsaw identification. I never saw the tweets or articles by the journalists named above.
I am studying law part time and my view is that Craig was found guilty because he identified 2 complainers by jigsaw identification and in particular he ignored the warning he was given in advance. I suspect the Judge isnt aware of the other alleged contemp of court breaches but she was aware of Craig because of the advance warning which is why his breach was brought before her.
I think James Doleman made an honest mistake and deleted immediately and the Judge took that into consideration. On the other hand Craig has maintained he did nothing wrong when he deliberately wrote the spoof and intentionally choose the characters names & roles. Maybe if he had plead Guilty and shown remorse, the Judge would have shown leniency. Craig should have taken legal advice before he published his Spoof and been more careful with his reporting after the warning.
O/T: the latest poll by Survation [reported on Scot goes Pop] gives the SNP an outright majority, 67 seats. Constituency vote 50%, list 39% – Greens having 11% on the list.
The only way to escape the nightmare of the independence fight being left in the hands of these two parties is to have another independence party available to vote for. Obviously.
Such parties exist but they can’t campaign without funds. I haven’t looked to see how all these parties are doing but Action for Independence [AFI], for whom Craig Murray is standing, has a fundraiser at afi.scot showing 16% of target raised.
If Wingers don’t support these other parties there really is no hope because as the Rev’s previous thread has proved, it is us who make the difference.
Lady Dorrian is doing a job, and so ought to answer the question of why it has taken her so long to come up with a verdict, and even longer to come up with a sentence.
She needs to do this if only to dispel the suspicion that it has been timed for the day after the election,and that she is acting under political direction.
The Crown office brings deep shame on Scotland by prosecuting Craig Murray but not the other so called journalists that identified or jigsaw clues that could easily lead to the identification of some of the complainers.
The Crown Office is harming Scotland’s justice system, and is making a mockery of it for the whole world to see. They must be the laughing stock of Chambers street in Edinburgh.
Now people will question and dissect every decision they make that comes into the public realm, for they have no credibility, and unfortunately no accountability whilst Sturgeons government is in office.
They can not be trusted.
@Kcor 8.23 pm
The only rational course for anyone who is horrified at the SNP and its direction of travel is not to vote for them at all. Anyone who does, irrespective of their excuses or protestations, is part of the problem. The only way to move forward and start building a Scotland fit for honest folk is to tackle the kind of thing detailed in this article.
Voting SNP won’t do that: not now, probably not ever. There is next to zero chance of the SNP being “saved”: if there was the membership would have done it already.
The only effect the SNP will understand is losing seats. If they are still in power after May, it’s going to take time for more of the folk who voted for them to realise they’ve been sold a pup. In the meantime, it gives those of us who want “real” independence time to plan for an alternative.
If Wingers don’t support these other parties there really is no hope because as the Rev’s previous thread has proved, it is us who make the difference
I think a large part of the problem is we haven’t yet seen the list candidates, afaik. We know a handful of them – Tommy Sheridan, Martin Keatings, Craig Murray. But for funding and campaigning, you really need to know who’s standing locally. At this stage, unless some very big name candidates are going to announce, it’s likely too late to build funding, support and campaigning for unknown names in an unknown party. If, OTOH, some well kent SNP defectors announced…perhaps with the potential to to bring big hitters from WM up to Holyrood, well that would be game on and the funds and volunteers would start pouring in.
The problem in Scotland is the crown office which is corrupted beyond repair. We all know that Peter Murrell perjured himself at the inquiry as did Sturgeon and a number of the other witnesses. We all also know that there is clear evidence of a conspiracy to pervert justice and yet there is apparently no investigation pending let alone charges being brought.
The disgraced Lord Advocate James Wolffe QC has been orchestrating the coverup and until he is removed from his post I can’t see anything improving. I’m not sure what his motivation is, perhaps they have dirt on him as the SNP are experts at using blackmail to control people.
Thing is, bad as things are now there are nothing compared to what will come of sturgeon gets back in with a majority. She will then have 5 years of near limitless power to finish the job she has only just started. I cannot believe that the country is so corrupted that she appears to have survived so far and it shows the sheer brass neck of the psychopathic bitch that she’s charging ahead regardless without a care in the world.
It would seem that the power is now in our hands to try and sort this out as the parliament and the courts have failed. The only way we have any hope of stopping her and getting to the truth is to do everything we can to stop her being re-elected. Voting New SNP is not an option; they have admitted that there will be no indy ref until 2024 at the earliest, that means there won’t be. The New SNP must be eradicated, the crown office disinfected of corruption and then the criminal gang that currently run the New SNP must face trial for their crimes against our country and it’s people. No half measures.
Contempt of court eh? And where does contempt of the jury and its decsions fit in with that? I would have thought that the Scottish legal profession might have been kicking up at the near constant denigration of the jury’s deliberations in the Salmond case. Similarly they should have been saying something about the conjecture aimed at its members by some of the press.
A keystone of our justice system and we get silence at the stream of vitrol aimed at it, by people who should know better but appear not to care.
Who’s protecting the jurors then?
“There Are Three Types of People:
Those Who Make Things Happen,
Those Who Watch Things Happen,
and Those Who Wonder What Happened”
Folks, soon everyone will have to decide to which division of humanity they belong. If yer no happy about the current situation in Scotland, stop moaning – do something about it!
Just sayin.:)
By pursuing just CM and ignoring all the other offenders, hasn’t the Crown Office committed a prima facie case of malicious persecution and as such be liable to sanction and damages?
If Lady Dorian actually is a Lady and someone seeking
Justice for all on an equal basis must ask why so many
main stream journalists can spout and maintain the same
information as Craig and yet only Craig is unfairly attacked.
Sorry but if this woman doesn’t see this injustice she shouldn’t be in the job.
The evidence in the public domain from the trial strongly suggests that at least one of the alphabet women blatantly lied – ie committed perjury. In that case surely a legal question mark must hang over the anonymity routinely granted to women complainants of sexual assault who did NOT lie in giving evidence? Presumably only Alex Salmond’s lawyers could lodge a complaint of perjury before the court – which if granted would lift the cloak of anonymity currently protecting Woman H in particular, and perhaps others.
@ Catherine says:
25 March, 2021 at 7:43 pm re
Is Lady Dorian not guilty of jigsaw identification herself when talking of a person’s nickname leading to their identification?’
I did not blashpeme, all I said was ‘that was a lovely dinner, Jehova himself would have loved it’ ‘Jehova, Jehova, Jehova’.
Strange times we live in , when the Life Of Brian is becoming on par with George Orwell’s 1984 in terms of the way power corrupts.
Is it Contempt of Court, if the Courts are corrupt – surely Contempt would be the appropriate response for an honest person. Hypothetically speaking of course. Dear Lady Dorrian, I’m forming an opinion about your lawful integrity – and its not good.
@ Cath at 8.51: “we don’t yet know who is on the list”..
You’re right, Cath. I forgot that point – it will make a difference I expect. I am desperate for big names e.g Kenny MacAskill, Joanna Cherry, Angus Brendan MacNeil, to declare they will stand as Independents. I have this fantasy that they will keep their Westminster seats but attend Holyrood too!! What bliss for we Yes voters.
The problem is that AFI and the others may lose heart if there is little demonstration of support. Which reminds me, people can join AFI as a supporter rather than full member. Doing so would be evidence of moral support and this would be useful.
Dorrian is fair ranting at Craig in parts.
With the obviously political timing of both the verdict and the sentencing, i fear for Craig!
Oh wait… Is Rape Crisis Scotland ready to pitch in with a complaint to the police about all these other journos and their more flagrant jigsaw identification of the women?
No? Why ever not?
Oh wait… Is Rape Crisis Scotland away to take the Scottish Govt to the Court of Session (like Alex Salmond is doing) as the two inquiries have got the women on record as feeling more traumatised by the inquiry than the court case? You would think so as they could sue them for damages. But I won’t hold by breath.
Oh wait… Is Rape Crisis Scotland reporting the leak to the Daily Record about the two women they so assiduously support? Surely that must have been more harrowing for them than the committee leak? I won’t hold my breath on that either.
For the avoidance of doubt that is comment on the role of Rape Crisis Scotland – and not on any individuals.
If you had told me a few years ago that people would be in line for jail sentences for campaigning for Scottish independence and political trials would be occurring in present day Scotland I would have laughed. Well I’m not laughing now.
Hats off to Craig – a prince among men. Those at the top of our govt, civil service, MSM and COPFS ain’t fit to breathe the same air as him.
Meanwhile today the Scottish Government to another tanking in the Court of Session.
In judgement by Lord Braid the court rules that the coronavirus regulations that forced the closure of churches during the Covid pandemic have been deemed unlawful.
A group of 27 church leaders launched a judicial review arguing Scottish Government ministers acted outwith their powers when ordering the closure of places of worship under emergency legislation.
Judge Lord Braid issued his judgment on Wednesday, finding the Scottish Government regulations disproportionately interfered with the freedom of religion secured in the European Convention on Human Rights.
He said: “It is impossible to measure the effect of those restrictions on those who hold religious beliefs. It goes beyond mere loss of companionship and an inability to attend a lunch club. The fact that the regulations are backed by criminal sanctions is also a relevant consideration.
“Were the petitioners to insist on manifesting their beliefs, in accordance with their religion, they would be liable to be met with a fine of up to £10,000, a not insignificant penalty.
An absolute sign of the times. Intimidation by the application of illegal laws. The government and the Police certainly have form on this type of behaviour.
Who needs law when you’ve got the Government and Police acting illegally.
Well folks better get used to it. Get a kicking in the pocket and maybe a bit of roughing up if walking in the park away from home, get your house turned over on the reports of people in your house – and yes, the Police just fight their way in as the appalling Aberdeen video.
But mass rally and party if you’re a Ranger Supporter, or traverse the country on a political photo op jolly if you’re Boris Johnson and no case to answer.
Yep, Police Scotland, they know who to pick on, cos they’re tough on women and kids. They’re what they call in the trade as ” witness killers ”
Anyway, Sturgeon’s government canned again, for acting illegally and of course that’ll be more votes lost from the church going community.
Gosh Rev., forensic isn’t the word. I don’t know where you find the strength, or indeed, the information.
More power to your elbow, humanity needs you and many like you, although they’re a bit thin on the ground.
Let’s hope and work and vote for a more decent future than that being brought to us by the Committee of Public Safety.
Was there any legal reason that Dorrian and Hamilton co-ordinated the timing of the release of their ‘verdicts’.
I know Dorrian was officially today but in reality we found out about both within hours… after weeks and months of waiting.
So was there a valid reason for that (because if not does it not suggest something is very wrong here)?
Are Dorrian and Hamilton not both supposed to be totally independent blah blah blah.
Yet it very much looks like they being stage managed like a pair of shabby props.
Who are the eleven journalists ? You just printed in bold the names of eleven yoons.
And therein lies the problem.
If Lady Dorrian continues to ignore this injustice then she cannot complain when our caudilla is overthrown and her judgement is questioned.
I hope to see the lord advocate jailed.
In a Catholic church in my area Police Scotland were sitting outside of that church one Sunday night counting how many adherents were going in.
Obviously they had a thing about church numbers attending Catholic masses despite that church having a booking / ticketing scheme in place and pass keepers on the door.
Only doing their job you realize, now move along before we lift you for breach of the peace.
This situation can only deteriorate. Regardless of how we vote, the SNP is now the establishment. That means the status quo suits them, just as it suits New Labour and the rest.
A few months ago on this blog I asked what the indy equivalent of the term “red tories” was. In other words, what do we call a party that pretends to be pro-independence but is effectively a unionist party? That’s precisely what the SNP is now.
Independence is now a marketing tool for the SNP, nothing more, in the same way that socialism is a marketing tool for Labour. Ask Kier Starmer when we can expect to achieve socialism — if he doesn’t burst out laughing, he’s possibly a better politician and liar than we give him credit for.
If SNP politicians were more honest, they’d burst out laughing too were you to ask them when we might expect to achieve independence. And make no mistake, they’d be laughing at you and anyone else who takes the marketing pitch seriously.
That’s where we are, as it stands.
@ sarah says:
25 March, 2021 at 8:39 pm
O/T: the latest poll by Survation [reported on Scot goes Pop] gives the SNP an outright majority, 67 seats. Constituency vote 50%, list 39% – Greens having 11% on the list.’
Call me a cynic, but I am dubious about these polls. And I realise that is an unfashionable (and unprovable) position to take on it.
But here is my reasoning, in 2017 GE at the last minute, the SNP realised their campaign was lacklustre on the Indy message – and (as it came to pass) large numbers of the Yes vote were not impressed, and not going to come out and vote them in. I see no great earth shattering positive message of hope and ability being put to the electorate to invigorate and inspire them to come out and vote this time. Rather the reverse.
The year before in the Holyrood election 2016 – they were seriously, seriously worried about losing their majority – BECAUSE D’HONTE is so difficult for any party to get a majority. And the first time they did it was almost a fluke.
The polls have done 2 things (and served one person) in the last 6 – 8 months. In the lead up to November 2020 (SNP Conference) they were showing support for Indy in the high 50% mark (but never at 60%.)
This was at a time of the most disquiet about Nicla. ‘look at the polls’ was the cry.
And it was enough to stop a vote of no confidence in Nicla then.
January 2021 was the next big SNP meet – and by this time the transition was over and Brexit was done. I said that the poll support would drop for Indy support – in order to take the pressure off Nicla to actually hold a Referendum (or a Plebiscite Indy Election) – after all the 60% support threshold is official SNP line in the sand. While it remains below 60% their cry is ‘Scotland isn’t ready’.
In the mean time what was seen as a strength – daily Covid briefings are now seen as vainglorious and boring. People are really, really fed up of Covid… and Nicla, and ‘shut the door Frank, is now very old’.
I really struggle to see how the SNP will landslide a victory on the D’Honte system – with the serious split in the indy movement, and so many of the people who get things done having left the party in disgust, and no money to big spend it on fancy media to cover the ground the way the Unionist do.
Those things do not add up, particularly since Boris ( who made all things Indy look wise and remains our biggest recruiting Sergeant) has been pushed off the number 1 slot by the Holyrood Scandals.
Postal votes – which the SNP have been religiously pushing – remain the most insecure method of preventing voting fraud. Perhaps therein lies the answer.
On a UK level, it is perhaps worth also considering that the polls showed up well for Labour (from memory, I think) and kind of lulled them into a false sense of security.
We were told Craig Murray’s verdict would take 2 to 3 weeks after a 90 minute trial. It took 8 weeks.
Hamilton’s inquiry started ages ago and dragged on for many months / years.
Yet both broke their result within a few hours of each other in a clearly choreographed event.
So how is that possible?
Was there some technical legal reason for it because if not it absolutely stinks to high heaven.
Joanna Cherry is taking time off for health reasons she says in her Twitter account.
Lady Dorrian can maybe only “Try those brought before her”, but she must be fully aware of all the facts you have listed here, Stu. As far as I know, there is absolutely nothing to stop her from noting and commenting on the obvious bias endemic in the COPFS and Police Scotland, this would surely make any Craig Murray appeal far more likely to succeed.
Her reticence speaks volumes about Scottish “Justice”.
Since the Crown Office has favoured those journalists does that mean they are the Queen’s XI?
Lady Dorrian is an arsehole.
I find Craig Murray to be quite an arrogant man, so holding his hands up and showing remorse is something that I suspect isn’t in his character, even though it might have helped him a bit.
When this court matter first came to the fore, I offered my opinion that he should prepare for the worst and get things organised for himself and his family in case he got sent down. I have no idea if he took my opinion on board. I hope he did but I further suspect that he just sneered at my opinion, assuming he even read it in the first place.
The reason I’m mentioning this now is that I’m of the opinion that it’s only a matter of time before they focus their attention on the Rev and this site, if they haven’t already begun to do so.
I think the Rev has more savvy than Craig Murray, perhaps a bit more ‘street-wise’ but I would urge him to start building contingency plans for himself and his Father should the wheels start to head in his direction. Don’t leave it to the last fucking minute, start planning NOW.
I’d like to know who reported Murray and how, also to whom in the the police/COPFS. Also why they have not reported anyone else they’re presumably aware of having likely jigsaw identified other complainers.
Can any member of the public follow this course too fur a jigsaw prosecution?
Without knowing the people in the chain, there is no clarity if justice. This surely must be available to scrutinise?
@ Daisy Walker at 9.27: I don’t count on the polls, certainly.
What I want is to help ensure that there is a viable option to vote for and at the moment AFI looks to be the only one. BUT they won’t get far without support in the shape of members/supporters and money.
@ Hautey, re ‘A few months ago on this blog I asked what the indy equivalent of the term “red tories” was.’
Indyplacent, Indyplacid, Indylayed, Indypost, Indyovertherainbow…
I’m told that my plan to vote tactically to oust John Swinney, must not include voting Tory – because as bad as they are, the SNP are the lesser of 2 evils. (And I have never voted Tory in my life, and never, ever thought I would have to contemplate it).
But here is the thing. Are the Tories the lesser of 2 evils? There are certain things that I believe – as much as they would like to – the Tories will not implement, because they are seen as a ‘step too far’ even for them. For that they need useful tools/fools, of the home grown variety.
The Tories will not push GRA (at the moment) even though their leaders will be first to be financially lobbied by big Pharma – it would upset too many of their Blue Rinse voter core, and at the moment it is a stick to beat the SNP.
The Tories will not remove Juries from trials – much better to get the SNP to dirty their hands with that pervertion of justice.
The Tories will not push the Hate Crime Bill – not when Judges, and Police are against it – they see the title of the Party of ‘law and order’ as belonging to them.
But it does not mean they do not want all of those things – so much better to let the SNP bloody their hands doing all the dirty work for them.
And in the doing of it – we are very close to losing sites like this one and Craig Murray’s, and with it our most valuable means of delivering Indy – ie rapid access to accurate info to debunk propoganda.
The SNP in its current form is The Enemy Within and Nicla the Cuckoo In The Nest.
For those who ‘didn’t leave Labour, Labour left them’ how many years, how many decades, did you stay and ‘try to change it from within’. Hows that working out for those still trying? Asking for a friend.
How and in what way will change within the SNP be demonstrated, and in what time frame? Realistically.
1 Year?
2? Perhaps 4 would be needed – just in time for the next GE. And in that 4 years all eyes would be on the ‘changes to the SNP’ instead of the campaign to save Scotland.
Perhaps 10 years is a more realistic setting – 10 years in the electorial wilderness, with unelectable, raging personalities, clinging on for all their worth (and yours). While Scotland gets destroyed under Brexit.
We need to chose, Save Scotland, or Save the SNP. I know what is more important just now, and what is under the most threat?
Hello again Mr Campbell.
As I’ve had to say three times now, I tweeted out that name in another context, deleted it immediately and apologised. At the time there was no contempt of court order in place, so there was no prospect of me being prosecuted, and I wasn’t “banished from the court,” either as the crown accepted it was just a mistake and was immediately corrected.
You can keep flogging this dead horse all you want, and I’ll keep reminding people that you emailed me to say you only were doing this because I was “being an ars*hole on twitter (ie I made a joke you didn’t like)
Have a nice night
All the best
James
@ James Doleman says: at the time there was no Contempt of Court Order In Place’
Isn’t that the same for Craig Murray with regards his ‘Yes Minister Parody’ article? It was published way before the trial, and the Contempt of Court Order? Wasn’t it?
I’m glad to hear there’s no prospect of you being prosecuted – I think that’s a safe bet for you somehow. Can’t think why at the moment.
Great and worrying article. Highlights the deficiencies in the UK Act setting up Holyrood in not separating executive and judicial powers.Most here I assume would like this remedied by an independent Scotland with a workable constitution. I’d prefer an end to devolution which has just extended the number of troughers on the public purse to no useful end.
@ James Doleman: do you think Craig Murray’s reporting warranted this contempt case?
I really should know better but what the heck eh
I hope you receive the same messages of support if the Procurer Fiscals search squad comes looking after you pal , with this lot being innocent of any crime is no impediment to them.
That’s of course in reply to the obvious click bait by Mist not sure if the strange name is a resident of this country but who cares , mind how you go it’s not safe out there now Humzas on the case
Craig Murray, please do us all, and above all yourself, a big favour and stand against Robertson in the Edinburgh Central constituency.
Being elected on the list is not what someone with your profile should be aiming at.
Let us see you, in a white suit, confront Robertson and his wife Jennifer Dempsey at Edinburgh Green or whatever a central place in Edinburgh is called.
Let them jail you after you have been elected an MSP after routing Robertson.
You have international contacts and friends. The world’s press will be looking.
How will they then complain about Putin jailing political opponents?
Expose them all for the bastards they are.
On The Dole maybe soon pal eh
Anyway go duck yerself
This is all quite astonishing really.
We have to think carefully about who or what we are voting for at this upcoming election. Scotland is at a crossroads and one of the routes ahead is a dangerous path indeed.
The thing that niggles me is this business of anonymity being defended as a sacred gospel, and woe betide any heretic who dares to question that anonymity, but these ‘victims’ aren’t victims at all. They are conspirators! Conspirators in a scheme to smear an innocent man and have him sent to prison based upon a narrative they have colluded to orchestrate.
Were these “victims” genuine victims, even perish the thought, genuine victims who failed to prove a genuine assault took place, then I don’t have any problem whatsoever with their anonymity.
But that isn’t the case. There is clear, and what seems unequivocal evidence of conspiracy in the texts alone. Off the top of my head, that commentary about “serious consequences for Salmond but the ‘victims’ protected by anonymity” is profoundly disturbing, and appears on the face of it to be entirely consistent with a premeditated and orchestrated conspiracy. What other conclusion is it possible to draw? It is after all, the conclusion the jury came to!
In these circumstances, it seems worrying and absurd that multiple people are being forced to suffer serious life changing circumstances as a consequence of what seems to be a vexatious, asymmetric, and wholly unnecessary pursuit and prosecution of certain individuals.
It seems grossly improper that the Conspirators who set this wicked train events in motion are still protected by a right to anonymity which they have cynically abused, while journalists who are deeply troubled by the glaring evidence of conspiracy are actually being put behind bars on the strength of the same, sorely abused right to anonymity.
Nobody is disputing this right to anonymity is quite appropriate where there is a victim who has a right to privacy and discretion following a very personal assault, but surely, there surely has to be some kind of safeguard built in specifically to prevent this ‘all conquering’ right to anonymity being abused, and misused as a shield of invincibility which allows a false witness to maliciously smear and damage an innocent man’s reputation with absolute impunity and without even the possibility of diligent scrutiny.
What is happening here is either vexatious madness within the system, or worse, we are witnessing a “Russian Doll” type proliferation of conspiracies; a small conspiracy being covered up by a bigger conspiracy, which is itself covered up by a yet bigger conspiracy, then that covered up with yet another conspiracy, and so on, and so on, until we have the Scottish Judicial process looking prejudiced and corrupt, the Lord Advocate hopelessly compromised, and the First Minister in the Scottish Government looking like a criminal desperately trying to hide the evidence.
NONE of this evolving insanity spiralling out of control would have taken placenta all, if the Conspirators right to anonymity was withdrawn or declared forfeit after their accusations against Alex Salmond were discredited and disproved in the Jury Trial. That surely is the tipping point when these ‘victims’ became perpetrators, and the protections extended to genuine victims should have been properly rescinded.
@James Dolman,
There’s a bottom line here. You did it. End of.
@ sarah says:
25 March, 2021 at 9:55 pm
@ Daisy Walker at 9.27: I don’t count on the polls, certainly.
What I want is to help ensure that there is a viable option to vote for and at the moment AFI looks to be the only one. BUT they won’t get far without support in the shape of members/supporters and money.’
I agree with you, but I put money to ISP only then to find out they did not have Plebiscite Indy Election as a Manifesto / Policy issue. Shades of SNP carrots all over again.
AFI – An Umbrella Party needs a single message, that is easy, and catchy.
Instead they’ve got paragraphs and paragraphs of well meaning socialist guff, about super majorities, and simple majorities and popular votes – that will eventually, in some convoluted way, mean, in the voters minds, a plebiscite indy vote.
The only good thing about it, is when Tommy went and wrote it he used paragraphs at all. Perhaps it was a blue moon.
I want someone viable to vote for, for Indy. I hope the ISP and AFI get it sorted.
Meanwhile I think Craig and Alex might have need of my spare cash at the moment.
somerled says:
25 March, 2021 at 8:39 pm
There was no anonymity order in place when Craig wrote the spoof, just as there was no anonymity order in place when Doleman named one of the complainers.
I fervently hope next time I’m representing myself in court that it’s you on the other side.
Are Murrell and Wolfe…..
“The contents of the article show that he was aware that the identities of the complainers was something which would be protected by the courts”
So Scotland is now a country where people have to observe laws which do not exist but will in the future.
Craig Murray, please ask your international friends and contacts to publish what is happening in Scotland for the world to see what a real Banana State looks like.
Unlike all those pretendy Banana States.
Apologies in advance.
I don’t understand why the process is as it is.
The charge is contempt of “Court.” It’s not contempt of the “Crown Office.”
It therefore seems rational and logical that if the offence is against the “Court”, on the basis of being against an order issued not by the Crown Office but by the Judge on behalf of the Court, that the charge of breaching the order made by the judge and treating the court with contempt is the responsibility of the Judge to instigate on behalf of the Court and the order they made rather than the Crown Office?
Nothing else makes any sense in terms of a rational and coherent process.
Hi Sarah
As there might be an appeal I’m not in a position to give an opinion on that yet.
I will say I consider Craig a friend and will have plenty tp say when the case is no longer live.
All the best
@ Daisy at 10.14: I too bunged a small sum to ISP – on principle rather than conviction!
As you say, there are many worthwhile objects for our cash at the moment – potentially Craig and Alex, plus currently: Mark Hirst’s malicious prosecution case v Lord Advocate; Manny Singh trying to keep his taxi licence; For Women Scotland’s court case about women not being men.
I expect there are more that I don’t know about.
It is rather depressing. Yes movement was so happy, open, positive, as someone on here was saying, but life under SNP is grim.
Kcor
Been saying all along that Craig needs to put the white suit on and go for the jugular like Martin bell. That strategy should have been in place as soon as it became clear the arrogant bastard Robertson thought he could parachute in and take the seat for granted. Problem is he seems keener to back the SNP and get us to vote for someone who looks like a junky who sleeps on a bench and talks as much sense. If Craig is even remotely serious in backing that imbecile then I seriously worry for his judgement. The whole AFO things smacks of people with no real plan wanting to ride on the SNP coat tails, as far as o know carpetbagger Tommy is still advocating voting SNP 1. I could effin well weep.
I think the distinction lies with those who would like the names to be public (Murray et Al) and those who don’t. Those who don’t are still guilty of jigsaw identification, but their motives are not malicious as I the case of Clive and Murray.
Remember that ad about eating your cereal and getting back in your box? This is the judicial version of that.
SNP MP Joanna Cherry is to step back from her public duties for health reasons. (BBC)
Hope it’s short term and nothing serious.
Stay well Joanna.
OT Can someone point me to the full quotation from the tweet which began
‘I have a plan..’?
@ Mac2: wrong. Craig did not want to identify people, maliciously or otherwise.
Andy Ellis says,
“Voting SNP won’t do that: not now, probably not ever. There is next to zero chance of the SNP being “saved”: if there was the membership would have done it already.”
“The only effect the SNP will understand is losing seats.”
The only way to make them lose seats is for those like us who are aware what has been happening to vote tactically against SNP candidates in the constituencies.
Abstaining or spoiling the ballot is unlikely to make them lose seats.
The SNP cancer has to be cured first.
Any unionist disease which comes up will be given the appropriate medicine when it arrives.
Shocked says,
“The New SNP must be eradicated, the crown office disinfected of corruption and then the criminal gang that currently run the New SNP must face trial for their crimes against our country and it’s people. No half measures.”
That can only be achieved by voting tactically against SNP candidates in the constituencies, not by abstaining or spoiling the ballot.
At the very very least, vote tactically for Sarwar in Sturgeon’s Glasgow Southside constituency to get rid of the Criminal in Chief of Scotland.
No half measure indeed:
Ruby says (“Three choices” – March 22, 2021),
“I’m voting SNP 1/2 because I want Nicola Sturgeon to have to face the consequences of her actions.”
Orlando Quarmby says,
“The evidence in the public domain from the trial strongly suggests that at least one of the alphabet women blatantly lied – ie committed perjury.”
From what I understand, the ring leader became a complainant for the sole reason of remaining anonymous.
This is a blatant abuse of the system.
Rape Crisis Scotland and their man Mridul Wadhwa, the man pretending to be a woman to get easy access to very vulnerable women, don’t give a damn about real rape victims.
@Sweep 7.49pm:
Recalculating:
Incoming from Mr Doleman in 7683… 7682…
When we eventually get our justice system back and run by people with honesty and integrity, the complainer who by all accounts committed perjury should be interviewed and charged. I believe that if that person was properly cross examined in court they would crumble and spill the beans to save their hides.
Daisy Walker
I agree you should look for an alternative candidate other than the local SNP candidate who just happens to be Swinney.
Why not vote for the local Tory if he has the best chance of taking the seat.
Any candidate other than a Green has got to be better than Swinney. It’s good to see you thinking outside the box.
But why are YOU not getting slaughtered by the usual culprits for even suggesting that?
The guy Ross Kilblride got hounded off the site for daring to put forward the idea of voting for Sarwar in the Glasgow Southside Constituency of the First Minister of Scotland.
Seems to be one rule for some and another rule for others.
Will be interesting to see if anyone labels you a Yoon or 77th in the future.
James Doleman – Sorry I made a mistake
Nicola Sturgeon – Sorry I made a mistake
James Wolffe – Sorry I made a mistake (many more actually)
etc, etc,
The British Establishment in charge of Scotland say ‘nae probs completely understandable’
Scots Independence supporters – Sorry, I made a mistake
The British Establishment in charge of Scotland say ‘500 lashes’
Colin Alexander says,
“Joanna Cherry is taking time off for health reasons she says in her Twitter account.”
Why does she not resign from the SNP?
Does she still have an ambition to be SNP leader?
I am sceptical about her.
How did it help Scottish independence to fight for the Westminster parliament to remain open?
The Rev. Stuart Campbell had presented a very convincing argument for what the SNP MPs should do.
If Cherry, MacAskill and the rest had listened, Scotland would have had its independence referendum and almost certainly have voted Yes.
Has Lady Dorian never heard of the Wayback Machine then? She’s just presented a a definitive guide for how to parse Craig Murray’s articles.
I wasn’t going to comment on the last thread re wee ginger fud but he keeps posting shite
Tonight’s effort I don’t know if it’s in way of retaliation but fk me
He has really outdone himself in coming wait for it I give you
Mhairi Black I guess it’s about a referendum on a Galaxy Far Away I must save it for my grandchildren maybe they will have a good laugh
The SNP and a referendum in the one sentence now that’s a prize worth keeping eh , in the same sentence well I never that’s really clever eh what will they think of next
Never watched the clip the ginger fud posted I couldn’t be arsed these bloody repeats , repeats ,repeating themselves over and over, nearly there, touching distance,almost just round the corner
Why are people having a go at Hamilton?
His formal remit was specified by Swinney, and within those confines he has delivered. She did not breach the ministerial code by helping out her friend Alex.
You are all frustrated that he did not go beyond his remit. But he cannot do that.
It’s all very well to say that he can investigate other activities if he so chooses, but the person stating that knows full well that Hamilton, as a QC, cannot breach the terms of the Treason Felony Act.
It’s yet another big lie.
And the outcome was fixed from the moment the terms of reference were promulgated.
Craig has pointed out an important fact:
@CraigMurrayOrg
But do you spot something much more vitally important?
[In the judgement Ms Dorian states]:
“The dates and loci of the offences were widely reported”
Craig point out:
WHAT OFFENCES? THERE WERE NO OFFENCES.
There were disproven allegations.
In the judgement Ms Dorian also refers to a code of conduct which refers to the “victims of sexual assault” about whom “the press must not identify or publish material likely to identify” (the victims of sexual assault).
But as we now know that in logic there were no “victims of sexual assault” because a jury decided there was no sexual assault.
That of course is not good enough for these judges who still refer to non-existent “offences” against non-existent “victims of sexual assault”
These, we need not remind ourselves are the very same judges (Ms Dorian) and now the MI5 Crown agent who want to abolish juries in sexual crime cases.
Their persistent use of the language of “offences” and “victims” in cases in which the very juries they directed have determined that there were neither victims nor offences, is perhaps revealing of their massive lack of impartiality, and a profound warning as to where this is taking us.
Kcor
I still can’t believe there is some lunatic going to vote SNP 1 and 2.
I hope that lunatic is ready to take a share of the blame once women and young girls start getting sexually assaulted in their “WOMEN ONLY” spaces.
Shame in that lunatic.
I agree with Andy Ellis – he’s right
No votes SNP
Andy Ellis
25 March, 2021 at 8:47 pm
@Kcor 8.23 pm
The only rational course for anyone who is horrified at the SNP and its direction of travel is not to vote for them at all
Anyone who votes for the SNP should be ready to own the shame that will go with knowing you actually voted for the Laws that caused these females to be sexually assaulted.
You voted for it, so own it.
Shocked says,
“If Craig is even remotely serious in backing that imbecile then I seriously worry for his judgement.”
Since his sentencing has been delayed, he still has a chance to confront them directly instead of hiding behind a list.
The alternative for him will be to reflect on it in jail.
Andy your Pal Ross Kilbride got banned for abusing other posters.
Be more alert.
Given that the above article is more evidence, if it were needed, that separation of powers in Scotland has now reached Mugabe/Zimbabwe levels of fantasy I am very doubtful if the legal action taken by AS will even get off the ground.
It’s interesting that James Kelly on his blog. Talks about Stu being determined to get his revenge on Sturgeon.
Talk about missing the point. It’s about fecking justice James,not revenge.
Salmond with his legal action is saying to the SG. If you don’t clean up your house, I will do it for you. That’s why he waited till Wednesday. He was waiting to see which heads rolled.
James Kelly wants us all to forget about injustice, and move on. Not a cats chance in hell James.
We don’t give up our principles so easily.
There isn’t ever going to be a referendum with the SNP anyway. So at least we can try and stop their open abuse and corruption.
@somerled says at 8:39pm
Exactly.
There is enough to focus without getting sidelined with this.
The yes minister sketch did give some things away.
Unfortunately Charlie Reid once gave a leaflet away too.
Lady Dorrian’s judgement says,
“The nickname given to that person is one which would require very little imagination to link with one of the complainers”
Thank you, Lady Dorrian.
I am going to read Mr Murray’s article again (I saved a copy) and use my imagination to identify the complainant you are talking about in your judgement.
If I manage to identify her, I will report you to the Crown Office for contempt of court.
I will also write directly to the complainant to inform her that I have reported you.
Of course, it will be the Crown Office’s job to decide whether or not you are a supporter of Alex Salmond.
But I will have performed my citizen’s duty of reporting a contempt of court.
What I am thinking regarding the Doleman saga is simple really.
He put out the offending tweet deliberately in order to get the Section 11 anonymity order passed.
Why?
Well it is not beyond imagining that he was asked to do so by one of the main conspirators, as the entire conspiracy project depended on the conspirators gaining anonymity from the judge.
Remember the infamous ‘I have a plan….’ tweet?
If we want AFI to put up candidates for us to vote for, we all need to donate so they have the funds to do this. Just being practical…..
I think that Sturgeon’s government and the Crown Office are appalling, but the decision shows that Murray gave the CO plenty of reasons to single him out. Paragraphs [69]-[71] record that he had formed the view that “there is the strongest possible public interest in knowing” the identity of the accusers, because then the public would “immediately understand what was happening”. Paragraphs [73] &[75] indicate that he was trying to steer as many of his readers as possible to work it out by reading between the lines whilst avoiding liability for doing just that – a calculated gamble which failed. I doubt the other examples of alleged journalistic breaches were as calculated. Murray is a bright guy and lots of other things besides, but journalist he ain’t.
Craig Murray’s sin yet again is to be a heterosexual male who believes in Scots Indy in Stalin Sturgeons Scotland or so it seems. Maybe if he came out against Indy and wore pink knickers and a frock he would have been found not guilty.
Kcor @ 10.34
Totally agree. Why go halfway and spoil your ballot instead of voting against the cancer which is eating our society. There are many forms of cancer, blue and red among them, but for the time being we need to eradicate the more virulent strain which is the main threat to our democracy and the independent future of this country and that is undoubtedly yellow.
Ignorance is a poor excuse although it does apply to much of our electorate and we should have sympathy, but anyone having the facts laid bare in front of them and voting for this trash is beyond the pale. Sturgeon, Murrell, Swinney and others in the Scottish Government are patently guilty of lies and malfeasance and should be prosecuted together with Wolffe, Evans, Loyd and others in COPFS and the Scottish Civil Service. When they eventually lose power I have no doubt there will be legal action taken against them by their successors. This may be more imminent than many might believe as the SNP finances are precarious to say the least despite having apparently embezzled £600,000 of funds entrusted to them for a specified future purpose. With the drastic drop in their membership and fund raising potential financial implosion is definitely on the cards. In the meantime they will be fighting the legal action raised by AS, with its attendant costs, which will see them in court, without the protection of redacted and suppressed documentation and where they will be held to account under oath. It will likely be a protracted affair but ultimately they will be judged on what they have done.
In the meantime why on earth would anyone with a single operating brain cell vote for them unless they are ignorant or compromised. Hold your nose and vote for whoever is most likely to beat these evil, corrupt weasels. Console yourself by knowing you are not so much voting in favour of any other party than voting AGAINST Sturgeon and her cronies. Would I be prepared to tolerate 5 years of a unionist coalition at Holyrood rather than another 5 years of Surgeon? You bet! In the meantime she would be booted out to answer to a court of law and we would rebuilding our aspirations under a new, real, pro independence party.
Lady Dorrian herself has, of course, directly created a jigsaw identification by finding in favour of the Spectator and making clear the SG redactions were out of context and “absurd”, which means when the name reappears in the unredacted version…
Daisy Walker: “James Doleman says: at the time there was no Contempt of Court Order In Place’
Isn’t that the same for Craig Murray with regards his ‘Yes Minister Parody’ article?”
I believe that is correct, Daisy. Didn’t Wings post something that explained all this earlier today?
Andy up there
Naw it’ll just be you Andy , fk ‘ing Andy , original or what.
Anyhow I take you’re on a Yahoo.com email now Lmao
Douglas, that has been suggested. I can’t rule it out on the basis that Doleman denies it since if it were true then he would hardly be likely to admit it, but I think it’s irrelevant.
What matters more than any of that is how each of the cases was dealt with by the authorities, with one resulting in a court case and the other resulting in a light telling off.
Despite being a more flagrant transgression in terms of directly naming one of the complainers, and despite the stipulation that doing so accidentally was not an excuse, Doleman was basically let off entirely.
It stinks.
The results of this week make me feel very nearly the same as the result of Sep 2014, only difference is after that result there was still some hope…
Soda @ 11.56 pm
That was a dark day, much darker than today when we know that the majority of Scots are pro independence and would respond to a a new vibrant campaign. Our current problem is that the SNP has got in the way of independence. Let’s rectify that by kicking them out of office and getting on with the job.
PhilM says:
25 March, 2021 at 8:18 pm
“It would probably need to be one of the alphabet women who would have to complain to the police about an actual instance of jigsaw identification resulting from one of more of these journalists’ articles”
Ah, so all I’d have to do is put a frock on and find a cop station that isn’t closed to complain to the police, while claiming to be one of the Alphabet Women. How could the cops know differently? What could go wrong in today’s Scotland?
So..we all vote SNP 1 do we….
Aye Get tae F@k.
Jesus.m
Sorry should have finished. Jesus Fck.
Aye right…..vote Labour to keep the Tories out.
Same auld shite. New SNP…New Labour
Orange County Rob
Did I touch a nerve with you there.
Are you an SNP 1 and 2 punter by any chance?
And is that going to be your total contribution to tonight’s debate.
You would have been better staying in your bed, where you have probably been all day.
What a waste.
Why not hound Daisy Walker Mr Orange County Man?
She is also suggesting alternative Voting.
Or is it just me you want to disagree with?
Strange wee man.
It has come to this;
Scotlands Main and most influential Scottish Independence website promotes NO VOTES SNP.
Thank sturgeon.
Scottish Patriots will NOT VOTE SNP.
Elmac says,
“Hold your nose and vote for whoever is most likely to beat these evil, corrupt weasels. Console yourself by knowing you are not so much voting in favour of any other party than voting AGAINST Sturgeon and her cronies. Would I be prepared to tolerate 5 years of a unionist coalition at Holyrood rather than another 5 years of Surgeon? You bet! In the meantime she would be booted out to answer to a court of law and we would rebuilding our aspirations under a new, real, pro independence party.”
A unionist coalition, with the carrot dangling corrupt lying SNP criminals voted out, will be the perfect scenario for a new genuine independence movement and party to arise.
As the Rev. Stuart Campbell said:
“A whole new movement of new people will have to grow organically from nothing again as it did back then”
Andy. 12.25
“Orange County Rob”
Very good Andy boy lol.
Meet the Scottish establishment, ladies and gentlemen.
This all is going to end-up in one horrible mess.
OT:
Remember all the fuss about Joanna Cherry having to stand down from Westminster without waiting to see if she won Edinburgh Central, because it was necessary to have the by-election on May 6 to save money?
https://archive.fo/TwJ5x
Neil Gray is contesting Airdrie and Shotts, so there will be a by-election to replace him, but the way the system works gives North Lanarkshire Council flexibility to hold the by-election 21 to 27 days after the writ is moved – and they’ve chosen May 13 because of Covid restrictions, leading to an expected bill of £175k.
Elmac: “Let’s rectify that by kicking them out of office and getting on with the job.”
Easier said than done. It’s inevitable that the Scottish public will at some point see through the lies, and hold the SNP in the same sort of contempt that they hold Labour and Tories in just now, but it’s going to take time to get there.
I guess we will need to wait.
The process would speed up if we had a new option in May. By that a mean a party headed by the likes of Cherry, McNeil, Macaskill, Salmond, etc., but where is it and where are they?
I don’t see how people who agitated for a more aggressive approach to achieving indyref2 can now sit on the sidelines and deny us an alternative to the SNP — at least, not without looking like hypocrites — but what do I know?
We’ve been here before, left hoping people have plans that will be revealed at the right moment, the sunlit glens of the promised land a mere stroll away…
Hamilton’s report landed on us like a neutron bomb, truth be told. Everything seems to be rigged from top to bottom and we are left without hope looking out over a cold, darkening, landscape.
“I am just going outside and may be some time…”
razycat says:
25 March, 2021 at 8:19 pm
@ Cath at 8.05
Yes, I wondered about that.
It also occurred to me that “the nickname given to that person is one which would require very little imagination to link with one of the complainers” is true if you already know who the complainers are, as Lady Dorrian does, and are thus in no need of jigsaws.
I’m not at all sure it helps anyone who hasn’t the faintest idea who they are.
Quinie:
I am hoping Craig Murray reads this and sees these two ladies’ comments (above), and instructs his solicitors accordingly!!
Only if you *know* who the “anonymous identities” are, could you put two and two together to identify a person.
I feel the need to pare back the nuanced layers of “jigsaw” and specify exactly what that definition is, in this particular legal context.
I.e. if a person (a judge, for example), is reading a document while already knowing the identities of the persons in question, does that not potentially make their reading of the veracity or not of the “jigsawing”, open to question?
Orange County Man
There’s Elmac also suggesting alternative Voting to oust the corrupt SNP.
And Kcor.
And the guy Ross Kilbride.
And me
And Daisy Walker.
The number is growing.
Are you going to hound us all off Wings Orange County Man?
Or just childishly hound me?
Deary deary me.
Decisions decisions Orange County Man.
A
Thanks for confirming I can sniff out a rat when I see one.
Good bye
AYRSHIRE ROB
Why did you get involved in debate tonight, was it just to start a wee stooshie?
I have noticed this with you before, you can be a bit lippy.
Cool your jets mate, we are all fighting for the same cause, meant to be.
Hatuey @ 12.39 am
Fair point but I think the collapse of the SNP is well underway and by the time the HR election comes round in May the unionist parties will be at full throttle attacking the SNP and recounting all the obvious lies and corruption of Sturgeon and her cronies. They are holding fire at the moment for maximum effect later. Our sleeping electorate might finally wake up to what has been going on when it is plastered daily over the Daily Record and the Sun et al in the days before the election. If this does not happen then you can safely conclude that Sturgeon has done a deal with the devil which many suspect anyway.
Hamilton’s report was not quite the whitewash we expected, there was a little dirt in it and some of the latter was deliberately obscured by redactions he did not approve of. Remember that his client was the SG itself on whom he was reporting, a ridiculous state of affairs, and his remit was carefully restricted. His inquiry was a charade from which he has emerged with little credit and the SG with less than a clean bill of health.
Keep the faith. The truth will emerge sooner or later and we have to believe that these crooks will see justice. In the meantime all we can do is educate those we can about what is going on and vote to kick these a***holes out of office.
It’s time to take to our dinghies and try to make it to the nearest democracy
“A Crown Office which has already openly admitted malicious and partial prosecutions behaving in such a transparently biased manner casts shade not only on itself but on the integrity of the entire Scottish justice system.”
Scottish law is now seen as an expensive and totally useless fandango. One of the essential tools of the legal trade used to be a green pen; it is now a great big broad, black, redactor pen yielded by Holyrood grade-A fannies Wolffe and Swinney.
You didn’t know Swinney was a lawyer, did you. Well, he’s not, he’s a politician and in Scotland that is much, much better than any lawyer. Who needs lawyers when you have Swinney.
Andy @12:40
Ermmm, hesitate to say it but me too.
It’s fucking horrendous what’s going on in this country now under the current Assembly at Holyrood. I’ve lived here all my life and now I just want out of it. We no longer live in a free democracy. Is it true that the new Police Powers Bill at Westminster will give the State the power to detain protesters indefinitely? If so then that is surely internment for dissenting from the Government line. Everyday that passes I feel more justified in my suspicions that we are being turned into a Soviet style people living in a Soviet style State.
My once beautiful city of Edinburgh is dead when I look out the window. A museum a memory of a culture deliberately trashed by its Herodian puppet leaders working toward the ” great reset”. Someone should tell Sturgeon that reset is a crime in Scotland. Time and events will prove me correct as they have done for a year now. I think it’s time to stop sleep walking.
A man would have a better chance of a fair trial if he appeared before Judge Roy Bean. The purple rinsed woke Sturgeonette won’t know what I’m talking about unless they can be bothered using Google to access information instead of porn. To all Sturgeon supporters pornography is very very bad for you. Stop now before you lose your grip on reality. Am I too late with this public health announcement?
robertknight. 1.58
The SNP leave us with no other option.
It’s either vote them out of government, or it’s another five years of this nightmare.
Andy @2:12
Sadly, I’ve come to the same conclusion.
1st time they won’t have got my vote, but they’re not the same SNP I used to vote for, or indeed be a member of, so I won’t be losing any sleep over it.
Just need to hold my nose when voting for the party most likely to unseat them… The prospect of doing that is far more likely to keep me awake!
Ah well better get used to the selective brutal application of the law, or what passes as law.
Police Scotland have shown themselves to be of selective bias. The huge amount of of resources expended trying to drum up a case against Salmond shows that. But it wasn’t just Salmond. And their utter refusal to investigate journalists others another example. Or their refusal to investigate the criminal leak.
The selective disregard for the breaking of COVID regulations whilst the masses get picked out for a hammering through fixed penalties. Or in the case of out of favour MPs like Margaret Ferrier, grave charges of Reckless and Culpable. Yes Police Scotland have become bully boys and thugs joined at the hip with rotten Crown Office and Government. But folks are recognising this and the advice is stay away from the Police, do not engage with them, they are not on your side. Treat them as an enemy gang for that sadly is what they’ve become.
Scotland has turned a corner. People now know it has a political Police Force and Crown Office. We should never forget that. The genie will not go back in the bottle. Recent and continuing events confirm that!
It’s not cultural marxism. The post truth world is a plutocracy.
Mary is the road to hell. Know your enemy.
http://www.foresightguide.com/our-new-plutocracy/
alan scott says:
25 March, 2021 at 10:04 pm
Quote:’
“Great and worrying article. Highlights the deficiencies in the UK Act setting up Holyrood in not separating executive and judicial powers.”
Actually it was seperated by AS as FM but Sturgeon rescinded his decision as one of her first moves as FM
“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.”
Great post Stuart !
Unfortunately, that’s Scotland 2021.
Living in a sewer.
Our Laws are in the hands of the lawless.
Used against their critics, and to protect their accomplices.
Definitely has the whiff of Fascism.
It’s not the pandemic we should be worried about,
It’s the plague of rats in Holyrood.
Wishing Craig well and freedom.
https://thescottishpamphleteer.wordpress.com/2021/03/25/british-violence/
This last couple of years does horribly seem like a prelude to trouble.
Independence must always be a peaceful movement though.
Willie says:
26 March, 2021 at 3:12 am
Ah well better get used to the selective brutal application of the law, or what passes as law.
Police Scotland have shown themselves to be of selective bias. The huge amount of of resources expended trying to drum up a case against Salmond shows that. But it wasn’t just Salmond. And their utter refusal to investigate journalists others another example. Or their refusal to investigate the criminal leak….
It is deeply troubling, because you cannot reconcile a partisan police force vexatiously pursuing one sector of society while being complicit with the crimes of another sector, and not be alarmed that this might constitute a further attempt at the Ulsterisation of Scotland by creating Scotland’s own B-Specials in the Police.
Never mind the jigsaw identification of false witnesses, the whole of Scotland needs to keep a careful eye on all the pieces emerging which are consistent with Scotland is being steered down the troubled path of Northern Ireland, and the powers that be, want to destabilise Scotland and provoke civil war and sectarian divide by using whatever it can to divide us.
Is that tinfoil hat conspiracy theory? Or evidence that the SNP is indeed fundamentally compromised and being used against us?
The traditional Catholic \ Protestant sectarianism hasn’t delivered the desired results and brought us all at each other’s throats, but maybe a “B-Special” Scottish Police agitating division between Independentists is another chapter from the British State’s Colonial Instruction Book.
Now who would possibly orchestrate such a hateful state of affairs?
If those folk in the SNP, and indeed the Scottish Police, are too thick to recognise what’s happening, then the good people need to start speaking up. You don’t need to be convinced. These parallels with Northern Ireland should be a warning to us all to recognise the possible Ulsterisation of Scotland, and nip that shit in the bud before it’s too late.
That the SNP is even remotely complicit in this, never mind the fundamental driving force behind it, ought to be ringing some seriously big alarm bells.
How odd, the crown office only pursue those who have supported Alex Salmond. Puzzling? It might make any person think that the Crown office is corrupt, leading to malicious prosecutions against those it doesn’t like and ignoring clear offences by it’s Friends.
Yet, here is the real irony, Humza Yousaf, the so-called’ justice secretary’ seems to have zero interest in what has been happening. You know, a Lord Advocate who was reportedly forced by dint of legal action, to admit in court to undertaking ‘malicious’ prosecutions against executives from ‘the rangers’. But the so-called ‘justice secretary, who has responsibility for law and order in Scotland does nothing.
And the entire so-called ‘Scottish’ Media say nothing. Complicit to the nth degree.
Any sane assessment of current events in Scotland, especially in relation to the crown office, would rightly conclude collusion and corruption of the very, very worst kind. It should NOT EVER happen in a functional democracy, but of course Scotland is NOT a democracy, it is a colony of England. (If we were not a colony, we would get the government we elected, rather than the one England literally forces upon us).
I do think, no matter the sentence with Craig, they have made a grave error in prosecuting Craig Murray. He intends to see them in the supreme court. I’ll enjoy that.
Mibbes once it does reach the supreme court, and potentially the European court of human rights, shaming Scotland’s justice system on the world stage, Humza will wake up – or Maybe Humza is part of the problem?.
And let’s not forget, those behind this (from the laughingly titled ‘uk government in Scotland‘ (do they even realise how colonial that sounds?)) really do actually want to destroy the Scottish legal system.
The Scottish legal profession really does need to wise up, otherwise, history might eventually show them as the legal equivalent of turkeys voting for Christmas.
And just for the record, I still have not sussed who the alphabetties are. I can make educated guesses, but honestly I don’t know for sure – though I haven’t really looked that hard. We will all know in time, that is sure to happen. Might take ten/twenty years, who knows, but it will eventually come out somewhere.
Nally Anders says:
25 March, 2021 at 7:55 pm
Isn’t it odd that it took 7 weeks to reach a verdict, notably just one week after the Inquiry and Hamilton submitted their reports.
And isn’t it odd that a sentence will not be passed until after the election results will be known.
It almost looks like Craig’s fate depends on Sturgeons.
Just a thought.
Even in light of all of the evidence one refuses to believe the reach of the stench of politically motivated corruption, these coincidences make it very hard to countenance a political motivation to the timings. One would be dubious. Two are a slam dunk.
That ought to say of course hard to countenance there are not political motivations to the coincidences!
@Robert Louis – Almost 7-years ago I was involved with one of the Scottish Government’s top private law firms. This firm get paid tens of millions per year by the SG for advice.
I told them….you’re building a school on a site which will turn into a swamp in a few years time and swallow-up the school. I know about this subject and have dealt with it twice before and so please get it checked.
That law firm took a lot of money from me but actually did nothing. The school was built and now it is being swallowed-up by the swamp.
My MSP is the forensic MSP from Dumbarton and so that should give everyone confidence. Maybe so, but she works at Holyrood and that should give no-one confidence.
Instead of getting it checked, the Scottish Government consult with lawyers…we all know that routine by now, don’t we. They hide things, refuse to answer, delay and redact. Soon enough 7-years have gone by. Hundreds of thousands have been paid to lawyers, but nothing has been done to the school. It is still open.
Anyway, the latest of these lawyers has been working on the case for 3-months. He’s a bright guy and so I sent him the correct information last week. Nothing hidden or redacted or anything like that. I copied it to the forensic MSP from Dumbarton and the teaching union so thay all have it.
A week went by and I heard nothing. Then, all of a sudden, I received 6 emails in 5 days from Scotgov promising to investigate and respond.
But, don’t get ahead of yourself as we have an unsolvable quandary now, don’t we? 4No separate Scottish Government lawyers have been checking this school for 7-years and haven’t managed to conclude anything because they haven’t been given the information. Now a member of the public just sends them the correct information in a single email. It can now be solved in days…What do we all do now?
I have suggested to everyone that they just call in the Health and Safety Executive. Give them the information, my information and the Scottish Government’s information and let them balance one against the other and decide. They’ll do that in 24-hours. It really couldn’t be simpler.
That’s an example of the futility of Holyrood. Bordering on lawlessness if you ask me and it always reminds me in a bad way of how quickly and expertly these cases are dealt with by just about every other country in the world.
Speaking of partial; how does an alliance of Labour & Lib Dems to keep the SNP in power grab you?
Weird things going on in Scottish politics right now….
I wasn’t able to work out who the complainers were from what Craig said, and I really tried. I must be the only other person in Scotland who doesn’t know @Robert Louis.
At the first referendum the figures showed Scots per head averaged £1,700 in taxes to Westminster but the United U.K. media only reported that Westminster Gave £1,200 back per head which is more than England gets per head.
In a real world the story of the stats is that everyone in Scotland has to give £500 to England.
ITV news replacement for Pierce Morgan just gave the same distortion angry that England gives Scotland too much if we can give the NHS a 4% rise.
£150 licence charge for propaganda.
RL
As Murray is the only one who has been singled out for contempt could we not have a serious crowd fund allowing him to sue for malicious prosecution. I would dig deep for that.
A very well educated chap on TV let’s Scots know what he
would do if in Scotland’s shoes.
A Tory shill thrown in with the usual comply unfounded drivel
that we only survive because of Westminster
https://www.facebook.com/TheLondonEconomic/videos/1329990730705206/?vh=e&extid=0&d=w
On the matter of the judges, it has been said elsewhere in reference to Lady Dorrian that: “She is actually the person least able to judge (literally) whether there has been a contempt of court”.https://www.thenational.scot/news/19186641.craig-murray-formally-told-held-contempt-court-salmond-trial-reports/
This would appear to be a valid point. Another judge in the Murray case, who was likewise involved in a previous related case, reminded us in the latter of the law relating to ‘apparent bias”. In this regard the following would seem pertinent:
“The modern law of apparent bias was settled by Lord Hope in Porter v Magill [2001] UKHL 67, where Lord Hope indicated that the ‘question is whether the fair-minded and informed observer, having considered the facts, would conclude that there was a real possibility that the tribunal was biased’.”
“In a subsequent case (Davidson v Scottish Ministers [2004] UKHL 34) Lord Bingham remarked that what ‘disqualifies the judge is the presence of some factor which could prevent the bringing of an objective judgment to bear, which could distort the judge’s judgment’. For: ‘In maintaining the confidence of the parties and the public in the integrity of the judicial process, it is necessary that judicial tribunals should be independent and impartial, and also that they should appear to be so’. The judge must therefore ‘be free of any influence which could prevent the bringing of an objective judgment to bear or which could distort the judge’s judgment, and must appear to be so’.”
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/automatic-disqualification-and-apparent-bias-/64222.article
I detest much of what is happening within SNP.
If independent they must be booted into touch
with their Crown Office and Lord Advocate.
No votes SNP is a vote for Westminster corruption, a vote for Boris,
a vote against independence.
We have benefits from their time in power that they will never have in England.
The Tories deliver 12 years of austerity, a PM who openly hates Scots a compulsive liar,
his party have killed 100,000 with mismanagement of Covid.
They have give £10 Billion of corrupt contracts to Tory supporters.
Patel is an expensive volatile bully who is still in office.
The Tories desperately want to sell off the NHS.
They don’t give a damn about Scotland’s vote for anything.
No votes SNP is a vote for total control for team Boris.
Effigy
The problem is no one in the SNP has ever publically asked Westminster two vital questions.
1. If we are so heavily subsidised by England why the near hysteria in preventing us leaving the Union.
2. Given Scotland’s small population plus over 40 years of oil and gas revenues generated from our waters, this country should be dripping in wealth. As it is not, WHERE HAS ALL THE MONEY GONE????
The SNP has never poked the bear with awkward questions.
I think we are almost all agreed that the hierarchy of the SNP are presently POISON in any sense of the word.
I never remember anything like this in my personal political journey from YCL to conservative Nationalist. I will not be voting SNP at the next election and have persuaded quite a number of my customers to do likewise. I believe that it will be impossible to reform the Party while any of the present leaders and a large number of the rank and file are anywhere near the levers of power.
The whole edifice needs to be torn down, a real leader found who cares more for our country than personal power and a campaign started to promote traditional Scottish values which were always, even in my youth conservative in nature.
Many here may not find that to their taste, as Scotland is promoted as “socialist”, “Red Clydeside” etc, but in truth it was all a sham abuse of power by different political factions, “Unions and Bosses” with a very unhealthy seasoning of sectarianism.
Time for a clean slate and a new start, time to stop misleading the public, an end to the current madness of identity and gender politics, minorities should be protected from abuse, but should not be allowed to RULE.
Even if you just think you know who Alpha Betty and her 8 sisters are you could be committing a Humza thought crime,
and he will send round his rainbow shirted nose ringed goons to drag you of to The Big Hoose.
The Nazi state had its Ausweis, in Johnson’s British state you may have to produce your QR coded VaxPass. Just like in East Turkestan aka Xinjiang.
Slowly, slowly killee democracy…as they say in old Peking.
I am getting more than a little pissed off by the Sturgeon Lovers continually referencing the lies and corruption around the Tories, as they indulge in Old Firm football-style Whitabootery.
I do not give a flying fuck that the UK Prime Minister, most of his Cabinet and a seemingly large number of his back bench supporters are venal, corrupt liars; that they dole out government contracts to their friends and that some are being protected from their sexual misbehaviour.
That is England’s problem. If the English are quite happy to vote usch people into power and keep them there, that is England’s problem, and it is not one which we Scots can solve.
I want the Scottish Government and the Scottish body politic, the Scottish legal establishment and Civil Service to be above that. I truly want us to be, as it says on the wall of the Holyrood Parliament building – in the early days of a better nation.
We are nowhere near that end, and I cannot vote for parties which do not aspite to that end, but merely pay lip service to the ideal.
Prince charles congratulating the greeks on their ‘fortunate’ anniversary of independence. Whats that? No, not for you sweaties, get back in your shortbread tin.
Effigy says:
No votes SNP is a vote for total control for team Boris.
Reply
Glad to see discussion re implications of ‘No Votes SNP’
Andy 12.40am ‘orange county’ ah i see you are familiar with that part of auld scotia, LoL.
Craig murray hinting at big news TODAY!!!
I know who a couple of Alphabetties are. I won’t be revealing it here but will be revealing one particular SNP candidate on the national papers sites. The candidate isn’t female by the way.
If I can help lose him his seat. I will be preventing him from doing more damage to the SNP.
I think being in NZ I am safe to do so. If not, so be it. LOL
Effigy,
If you can accept there is some level of corruption within the SNP then does that not open the possibility that the current leadership cannot be trusted when they say they want Independence?
For example, why only at this late stage in the parliamentary term is yet another IndyRef bill being introduced. A cynical person may view that as a carrot being used to ‘prove’ they do want independence, but why will it be any different this time around?
I guess it comes down to this, do you believe what the SNP leadership say or not, for me that ship sailed a while back and I feel very sad about the situation we are all in.
Setting aside the possibility that the judges admit error or mitigate it with a token fine does anyone know whether the delay to sentencing is actually supposed to be a concession to Craig.. ie can he still stand for parliament despite being found guilty of a charge which could incur discretionary incarceration for a period longer than that which might normally be tolerated?
Depending on the answer, and as thought experiment, it might be worth taking the absurdity a step further, and asking similar question about Manny Sing or anyone else who chose HM accommodation in preference to their own over last 12 months or so..
Socrates MacSporran @ 8.40pm.
Yes, the Tories are bad for the millionth time gets a bit tiring after a while, we know what the Tories, Labour and the Lib/Dems are, however its not them that’s stopping Scotland from becoming independent, no its Sturgeon, the enemy within as they say that’s keeping Scotland chained to Westminster for her and her party’s own benefit.
The Sturgeonistas are so deeply immersed in the I’m with Nicola mantra that they cannot see the woods for the trees, not even her awful performance in front of the committee where she failed to answer at least fifty questions after having months to prepare has shaken their resolve that she’s innocent and will lead Scotland to independence.
For some the penny will eventually drop when there’s no movement on the indyfront in the next five years, but for others, well, they’ll never stop believing long after the five years have become ten or more.
Effigy asks:
“1. If we are so heavily subsidised by England why the near hysteria in preventing us leaving the Union.”
Where is this hysteria?
Face it; Scotland in its current state is not fit enough to be independent,as we see. Independence Now would be a social, political and economic equivalent to the Darien crisis. If there is any ‘hysteria’ south of the border it is one of amusement followed by the ghastly realisation of having to bail out the inevitable series of disasters.
“2. Given Scotland’s small population plus over 40 years of oil and gas revenues generated from our waters, this country should be dripping in wealth. As it is not, WHERE HAS ALL THE MONEY GONE???”
Well, when you think about it, Wales could ask the same question regarding her coal and iron resources, as even Kent could also ask it of her coal resources, too.
But one answer as far as Scotland is concerned seems to be the excessive spending on the farcical and corrupt political set-up, where even post Brexit there are more layers of ‘government’ for the average Scot than the average English person. Then, we have the spectacle of the fiction of the separate Scottish legal system/industry that costs far more per head than elsewhere on this joint island.(And BTW, don’t forget the drugs bill)
In summary, IF the current minority in Scotland really wish for independence, it needs to make a convincing argument to win-over the majority of Scots to this cause. Given the current ludicrous state of affairs, this is going to take some time, starting with a separation of powers.
As someone ‘south of the border’ I would welcome an independent Scotland as a neighbour that was at least equal to similar parts of the UK in social, political and economic terms …. such as e.g. Yorkshire.
However, that will take some time, and for me the best way forward would be to copy the ‘red wall’ tactic and vote Tory in order to get the help needed with the reforms and investment needed to gain REAL and lasting independence.
Vote SNP and you get Tories and No Referendum
https://twitter.com/CrossgateCentre/status/1375096900261703686
AFI candidates announced today.
AFI has selected candidates. Number 1 in each region is: John Wilson, Tommy Sheridan, Dave Thompson, Craig Murray, Martin Keatings, Konrad Rekas, Mark Hirst, Lynn Sherdidan. There are between 5 and 7 candidates selected for each region.
Rather a strong team of highly committed independence people, compared to the daeless SNP leadership.
I will definitely be voting AFI on the list.
Well done Dave Thompson!
Republicofscotland says:
Yes, the Tories are bad for the millionth time gets a bit tiring after a while, we know what the Tories, Labour and the Lib/Dems are, however its not them that’s stopping Scotland from becoming independent, no its Sturgeon, the enemy within as they say that’s keeping Scotland chained to Westminster for her and her party’s own benefit.
Reply
Tories, Labour and the Lib/Dems are going all out to stop Scotland becoming independent!
How come they are now the good guys?
Apart from perjuror H, I don’t really have much interest in the Alphabetties. It’s the Liz Lloyd, Peter Murrel and acolites who are up to their oxters in this bourach.
They are the ones I want to see hung out to dry, not the useful idiots.
Vote Labour, Lib Dem or Tory and get a Tory Government
because England want us ruled that way!
The SNP’s continual grievance with bad policy emanating from Westminster might have more validity if they had actually used the massive amounts of Scottish
GovernmentAdministration time and monies putting in place the structures and policies that an Indy Scotland would need, rather than pissing it away for years on the ongoing saga of trying to implement a dodgy policy that really only served a very small group of self serving politicians rather than wider Scottish society.https://wingsoverscotland.com/soapbox-the-invisible-woman/
“The main news story concerning Somerville’s department since her appointment has been its repeated failure to take over welfare responsibilities from the UK Department of Work and Pensions on schedule…“
Scotland isn’t fit to run itself?
What we need to be ruled by an adulterous pathological liar
who put to paper that he would eliminate us and always invest
in England before Scotland.
We need the country next door to tells we can’t fly the Saltire?
Do we need 12 years of austerity that achieved nothing?
Do we want to be tied to the Westminster governing over Covid that
gave Europe’s highest number of cases and crashed the economy further
than anyone else?
Do we need Westminster to tell us we have no right to be European?
The Tories have delivered the first decade in 150 years where the standard of
living has not improved for the average person.
If you are a billionaire or have a juicy Tory PPE contract then you are doing very well.
Get lost with that Scotland couldn’t shit!
Have never been nor ever will be the only country in the world incapable of governing itself.
Would one of the implications of ‘No Votes SNP’ be that Boris would say
“The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly in the once in a generation referendum in 2014 to remain in the UK and now once again in 2021 the Scottish people have confirmed their desire to remain in the UK.”
Based on the sentencing date one could conclude that the results of the HR election will determine whether the sentence is going to be a rap on the knuckles or custodial.
Somethings afoot…
Alf Baird @9:37
That’s a good strong line up of list number 1s by the AFI.
“Scotland in its current state is not fit enough to be independent”
Och, in the name of the wee man, please change the effing record. 40 years on sucking from Scotland’s oil and still the same old crap.
The reason why Scotland is in its present state is because the English establishment is absolutely desperate to keep control of Scotland’s assets and territory. It is as simple as that. If they didn’t we would not see the corrupt Sturgeon’s government openly colluding with the arms of the british state in Scotland, aka the UK civil service, the COPFS, the MSM and the police to frustrate independence by frantically attempting to stop HE2021 to become a plebiscite and Mr Salmond getting anywhere near politics.
If the British state were not up to its eyebrows in this, Sturgeon, [redacted], Murrell, Roddick, Evans, the Crown agent and the lord advocate would have been ejected from their positions back in January 2019 and all those who lied under oath either in the criminal court or before the parliamentary committee together with those responsible for malicious prosecutions would be facing criminal charges.
Is the France v Scotland game on tv tonight or are we getting to watch England play San Marino again just incase you missed it last night.
Andy says:
25 March, 2021 at 10:53 pm
Daisy Walker
I agree you should look for an alternative candidate other than the local SNP candidate who just happens to be Swinney.
Why not vote for the local Tory if he has the best chance of taking the seat.
Any candidate other than a Green has got to be better than Swinney. It’s good to see you thinking outside the box.
But why are YOU not getting slaughtered by the usual culprits for even suggesting that?
The guy Ross Kilblride got hounded off the site for daring to put forward the idea of voting for Sarwar in the Glasgow Southside Constituency of the First Minister of Scotland.
Seems to be one rule for some and another rule for others.
Will be interesting to see if anyone labels you a Yoon or 77th in the future.’
Andy – I was one of the first to express reservations about Niclas SNP.
I did get pelters, quite hard hitting ones, including being called a Yoon. Nice auld Mr Robert Peffers didn’t hold back.
Incidentally at the time he was putting the boot in the heaviest, I had suffered a broken heart, my step mum was terminally ill, and I had a major move at work, with all the stresses and strains that go with that. Be glad I never had my own blog – think of the crowdfunding that might have engendered!
Most of the people who disagreed with me, have moved lock stock and barrel over to WGD. Although I think some of those who once disagreed with me, have now come to the same conclusions given the evidence now available.
I do try to ‘evidence’ my reasoning in a logical way. I think that either annoys them, or provides others with a good counter to whatever their ‘challenge’ is.
I dare say my time will come round again.
Ruby says: at 9:40 am
“Tories, Labour and the Lib/Dems are going all out to stop Scotland becoming independent!
How come they are now the good guys?”
I’m fairly sure no genuine Indy supporter is saying they are the “good guys”.
It’s possible that using the term “good” with regards to politicians in Scotland at the moment is misplaced, and the term “least shit option” may be a more appropriate descriptor. Unless of course you are a fan of having your free speech restricted and genderwoowoo policy foisted on our society against the majority of your fellow Scots’ wishes.
It would be braw if folk would acknowledge that tactical voting against the SNP is generally only being discussed in the context of potentially removing several key individuals that have led us into this situation.
What I don’t get with the SNP people who are crowing about the “defeat” of those who think Sturgeon is corrupt, is simply this.
Who will debunk the MSM lies on a daily basis for them? Who will do their WBB? Who will provide the debate, ideas, a focus and forum, money when they have insulted and marginalised people. When the word is out re GRA, who will keep women on board?
Them? So many seem illiterate fools, so I don’t think so.
As I said before re this. Stupid c***s.
After seeing the AFI candidate list and where certain individuals are standing, like Wolfgang Busch I find myself thinking “VERY interesting!”
“ Is the France v Scotland game on tv tonight or are we getting to watch England play San Marino again just incase you missed it last night.”
Don’t be daft, it’s the Vauxhall’s conference title decider. Yeovil v Accrington Stanley
@Michael B and John Jones — yes, 1930’s Germany was leftist authoritarian. People really need to get this idea that the Nazis were right wing out of their minds. You’re being gaslighted.
Robert Louis says:
26 March, 2021 at 6:29 am
And just for the record, I still have not sussed who the alphabetties are. I can make educated guesses, but honestly I don’t know for sure – though I haven’t really looked that hard. We will all know in time, that is sure to happen. Might take ten/twenty years, who knows, but it will eventually come out somewhere.
Reply
Could it be you are the only person in Scotland who doesn’t know?
Lady Dorrian is working hard to ensure Robert Louis doesn’t know the names of the Alphabetineys.
Lady Dorrian’s good work all undone when Robert Louis goes to the pub (when they open) and someone whispers the names to Robert Louis.
Who is the AFI candidate in John Swinney’s North Perthshire area? Anyone know.
I cannot help thinking that those trying to put Craig Murray in prison have bitten off rather more than they can chew.
The article describes CM as “blogger and former diplomat”. But he is also an historian.
@Daisy Walker
Daisy, it’s pretty obvious that “Andy” and “Fergus” are two more sock puppet account of the same clown who was posting as Ross Kilbride a week or so back.
Look at what happened to Ayrshire Rob on this thread earlier with those two “tag teaming” (including “laughing” at each other’s “jokes”) and posting in the same style – couldn’t be more obvious if it tried.
Ruby says: at 9:58 am
“Would one of the implications of ‘No Votes SNP’ be that Boris would say
“The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly in the once in a generation referendum in 2014 to remain in the UK and now once again in 2021 the Scottish people have confirmed their desire to remain in the UK.””
Well this situation has come to be because so many previous mandates have been ignored and all our electoral events at Local Authority, Holyrood, and Westminster have become corrupted by allowing every result to an expression on Scotland’s constitutional future, rather than democratically electing folk into positions to use the powers that resides at each of those levels.
@ Daisy at 10:11am
I understand one is Martin Keatings. He recently posted this tweet thread so you can try to determine his position on GRA from it.
https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1371113212955987968
The A in AFI stands for Action. Action for indy is exactly what is needed. Whereas the SNP just make noises about seeking indy, and do nothing more.
Dan says:
Unless of course you are a fan of having your free speech restricted and genderwoowoo policy foisted on our society against the majority of your fellow Scots’ wishes.
It would be braw if folk would acknowledge that tactical voting against the SNP is generally only being discussed in the context of potentially removing several key individuals that have led us into this situation.
Reply
Good Morning Dan!
I’m seeing more discussion about ‘No Votes SNP’ than tactical voting.
Who is to say the ‘Unionist Shits’ won’t foist genderwoowoo, denial of free speech and much worse on us?
Surely what we must be thinking about is what we do in the event of any of these things happening.
Daisy Walker @9:02am
The more things change the more they stay the same, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead
Perhaps we’re on the cusp of a New Enlightenment. I’d move mountains to make that happen, or at least try.
Jeggit and Craig are mentioning on twitter that something big is about to happen today.
Ruby @ 9:58 am
“Would one of the implications of ‘No Votes SNP’ be that Boris would say “The Scottish people voted overwhelmingly in the once in a generation referendum in 2014 to remain in the UK and now once again in 2021 the Scottish people have confirmed their desire to remain in the UK.””
Not if 50%+ of the Scottish people voted for AFI on the list in favour of independence at this ‘independence’ election. If that happened I would expect that national majority vote in favour of independence would find its way to the floor of the UN. This is why we need former Ambassadors and bona fide independence campaigners, to show us the wey oot o oor wratchedness.
McHaggis: I think you are right. Someone else doing the same thing as you have done is not a defence either. We can hope for sense to prevail and a fine set, rather than a custodial sentence. Lady Dorrian is no fool: she will have followed the letter of the law; but, it is to be hoped that she will not send Craig Murray to prison. What is to be gained from that? Except to make him a martyr to the cause of independence? Legally, when the cloak of anonymity is placed on people by the court, it is an offence to breach that order, however it is done, knowingly or otherwise. To be honest, I thought she might not have been such a stickler, others having done much the same thing. Still, she might impose a fine. The chap, Thomson, has already been made an example of, so there is little to be gained now from imposing another custodial sentence. The point has been made. However, this whole affair has been very maze-like, so…
Dan says:
26 March, 2021 at 10:07 am
Ruby says: at 9:40 am
Quoting:-
“Tories, Labour and the Lib/Dems are going all out to stop Scotland becoming independent!
How come they are now the good guys?”
I’m fairly sure no genuine Indy supporter is saying they are the “good guys”.
It’s possible that using the term “good” with regards to politicians in Scotland at the moment is misplaced, and the term “least shit option” may be a more appropriate descriptor. Unless of course you are a fan of having your free speech restricted and genderwoowoo policy foisted on our society against the majority of your fellow Scots’ wishes.
It would be braw if folk would acknowledge that tactical voting against the SNP is generally only being discussed in the context of potentially removing several key individuals that have led us into this situation.”
Just wait and see the labour & lib dem coalition with the SNP form.
So, on the list seat, since the SNP are not getting my vote…
Is there a chance that if enough of us disgruntled SNP former voters vote for ISP and AFI – both might get seats? I completely understand its not ideal, but is it possible?
2nd vote AFI for me but be realistic in that probably
80% have never heard of them.
They are never going to get exposure on U.K. media
They don’t have funds to promote themselves.
If they get one seat it would be a success from a standing start.
Absolutely no chance of getting 50%.
I’m beginning to think that my fellow Scots are quite happy to vote for the SNP who really don’t have any interest in the people of Scotland, only for themselves. So those who are happy to vote for the SNP are quite happy to live under their ever increasing authoritarian rule including Humzadinger’s backdoor Sharia Hate law. Btw im’ not unionist at all, but i do not like what Scotland is turning into with the current SNP at the helm.
Looks like Jock Penman (co convener of Solidarity) is standing in the Mid Scot Fife seat. John Swinney will not lose sleep over him standing.
In the Perthshire area it has to be someone who occupies the mid ground. Bugger.
Benny Nevis-Hill says:
26 March, 2021 at 11:01 am
I’m beginning to think that my fellow Scots are quite happy to vote for the SNP who really don’t have any interest in the people of Scotland, only for themselves. So those who are happy to vote for the SNP are quite happy to live under their ever increasing authoritarian rule including Humzadinger’s backdoor Sharia Hate law. Btw im’ not unionist at all, but i do not like what Scotland is turning into with the current SNP at the helm.
Reply
“Btw im’ not unionist at all”. 🙂
Athanasius at 10.10am…
‘Yes, 1930’s Germany was leftist authoritarian. People really need to get this idea that the Nazis were right wing out of their minds. You’re being gaslighted.’
——————————-
Wow! Now that’s what I call peak revisionism. Jumped any other sharks recently?
Ruby asks Who is to say the ‘Unionist Shits’ won’t foist genderwoowoo, denial of free speech and much worse on us?
The answer is naebody.
Unfortunately the choices currently available between the “big” parties boil down to:
* compulsive liars who hate you and will never, in a million years, deliver independence
* shameless fabulists who despise you and will never, in a million years, deliver independence
Your mileage may vary (especially when the extremely aggressive carbon targets Westminster and Holyrood have signed us up to kick in), but realistically in this election cycle the best we can hope for is to mete out a bit of pain to the people who’ve been actively making Scotland a worse, more authoritarian, more corrupt, more unjust place over the past few years.
The problem includes the SNP, but is not limited to the SNP. There’s been a quiet coup going on in the Western world for some time now, with the political class (enthusiastically supported by the media) decoupling itself from ordinary voters, who they despise. Gordon Brown’s reaction to the “bigoted woman” asking him questions was the textbook cri de cœur of an entire stratum of society gone feral.
Politicians no longer believe it’s their job to do what you want. They’re convinced it’s their holy mission to give you exactly what you don’t want, while accusing you of being a bigot if you seem ungrateful.
What’s happened to the SNP is disturbing, but not unusual. Labour hasn’t represented labour for about 25 years. The Tories’ only message is “Labour would be worse”. The Democrats in the US are contemptuous of democracy. The Republicans despise their own voters. Continental politics is a choice between slightly different flavours of people who suck off bankers and big multinationals.
What can we do? We need better people in politics. If you see any, vote for them. In the meantime, the only option available to most of us is to try and get rid of some of the bastards who’ve been flagrantly taking the piss and hope it helps train their fellow bastards into mitigating some of their bastardry.
Sorry I don’t have a better plan.
ISP candidates for each Region. Click on their names for a small spiel on who they are. Email address are there too for folk that may wish to contact them.
https://www.isp.scot/regional-candidates-may-2021/
Yoonarian; “…the forensic MSP for Dumbarton”
Comedy Gold lol
With the usual caveat that I am a unionist, I have been doing some thinking this morning. I am puzzled. It is obvious that the current SNP higher ups are not a bit keen on Independence. They are also not any kind of unionist that I recognise, so what are they? What political belief are they embracing? They seem to be wreckers more than anything else.
Do they even have core beliefs? What do the people who will vote for them think they are actually voting for, bearing in mind their very obvious dislike of and avoidance of the concept of independence?
Please note I do not spout an opinion on how people should vote, it is not my place to do that, especially here but how the hell are we ever going to get rid of the current shower? I am pragmatic enough to believe that independence will happen, and probably comparatively soon but please God let it not be under the current lot!
I believe I know the identities of two of the complainers: firstly Ms H thanks to Dana Garavelli’s article and the other ones to the foolishness of the Crown Office’s heavy-handed censorship of the Spectator. Neither of them due to Craig Murray. When may we expect to see Garavelli and Wolffe in the dock charged with contempt of court, Lady Dorrian?
Mia & 10:02
“The reason why Scotland is in its present state is because the English establishment is absolutely desperate to keep control of Scotland’s assets and territory. It is as simple as that.”
This is certainly a large part of the story, Mia. However, it is also well known that, as language forms a key plank of colonial policy: “Linguistic underdevelopment parallels economic underdevelopment” (Phillipson & Skutnabb-Kangas).
An entire people may be disadvantaged socially, economically, politically, physically, and psychologically through being deprived of learning their own language, thay’re ain mither tung. In other words, linguistic imperialism, or linguicide.
@Daisy Walker says:
26 March, 2021 at 11:01 am
“Looks like Jock Penman (co convener of Solidarity) is standing in the Mid Scot Fife seat.”
Glad someone knows. They’ve given press releases out to the media it appears, but the notion of updating their own website FIRST with a list of the candidates appears beyond them.
This is a classic example of the whole amateur hour and “jobs fur ma pals/family members” of Action For Independence that stops people taking them seriously. Who’s running the website? What liason is being done with them?
Time Tommy and co learned to stop putting “leaflets and stalls” pish ahead of the net – this is the 21st century.
“I’m fairly sure no genuine Indy supporter is saying they are the “good guys”
Let’s be clear. Endorsing Tories, labour or libdems with your vote in Scotland is at all practical effects saying that you choose to revert Scotland’s autonomy, that you choose Scotland to be ruled by England, that you choose Scotland to continue to be trapped in this union and you choose to give a blank card to England’s ruling elite to continue siphoning from Scotland all what it has left of worth.
If you want independence but you want to punish Sturgeon and her undemocratic coterie of careerists, impostors and cowards at the ballot box, you do not need to vote against independence. You can spoil your ballot. The message is louder because you are saying you want independence but you refuse to play their undemocratic game of being forced to choose between unionism or corruption. You choose none.
Attempting to sell that voting for overt unionist parties is the fastest way to get independence or to get rid of the SNP is the same dishonest and deceiving nonsense we were told years ago when labour was forcing down our throats the deception that the only way to keep the tories out in the UK was by voting labour in Scotland.
Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP is a product of the British state. You will not get rid of it by voting for another product of the British state.
If you want independence and your stomach can no longer bear endorsing the toxic rotting carcass that Sturgeon and Swinney have left of the original SNP, then spoil your ballot. In that way Sturgeon’s covert unionist new new labour does not get your vote, but neither do the overt unionist parties.
It seems to me there are a lot of opportunistic unionist shills in these threads exploiting the apprehension that, understandably, many yes voters have developed towards the sick ways Sturgeon has dismantled the SNP.
It looks to me these shills are seeking to hoover their votes towards useless labour, libdem or tory candidates who in normal circumstances, were the SNP headed by a healthy pro indy leader instead of a corrupt to the core political impostor, would not stand a chance in hell to win the seat.
Don’t be fooled. Do you want independence?
If you do, remove that stupid idea of voting for an overt unionist party out of your head. It is like to believe you can get your car with a failed engine up an running again if as a punishment for misbehaving you go and remove its tyres too.
Unless you replace the failed engine, the car will not go. Same with independence. The SnP is a beyond repair blown up engine. We will not get the independence car moving by removing the tyres which is in practice what we will do if we vote tory, libdem or labour. We will get our independence car to run again by substituting the write-off SNP engine with another pro indy engine.
The idea that we will accelerate independence by endorsing those useless unionists, desperate to wall our exit doors from this union is, in my view, as misplaced as the idea that the British state is going to allow anybody other than Robertson “to win” that seat in Edinburgh without a serious fight.
Do you want independence and you also want to punish Sturgeon’s SNP?
Then spoil your constituency vote and then either vote for AFI or ISP in the list or spoil your list ballot too if, like me, you are yet to be convinced AFI or ISP are really committed to independence.
I do not want to see attempts to fool the electorate by calling elections “the independence election” or anything of the sort. What I want to see is a permanent mandate in the manifesto of a political party that says a vote for that party is and always will be a vote for independence, no for a referendum, not for a “pro-indy” majority, not for keeping the tories out. A vote for the party is a vote to end the union and to start negotiations for independence – that is to me what real commitment to independence is. Anything less is to me just another way to prop up the write-off SNP by the backdoor without real commitment to independence.
Red @ 11:29
“What can we do? We need better people in politics. If you see any, vote for them.”
Excellent synopsis, thank you.
I see ‘better people’ in AFI, who are offering us this opportunity:
“AFI shall also campaign for a simple majority of the popular vote for pro-indy parties across both the constituencies and the regional lists, at the “Independence” election, and for such a majority to be understood to be a mandate for independence itself.”
https://afi.scot/route-map-to-scottish-independence/
Philip Maughan @9.21
careful – or I think you could be found guilty as well and by printing it on this website you could close this site down – is that maybe what you are trying to do?
Rev, you might want to remove the comment above @9.21
o/t
The Scotsman are running a piece regarding Liz Loyd received £6000.00 in specialist Legal Advice before appearing before the committee , not quite correct on that bit she never actually appeared Questions were put to her over a Phone link no one knows who else was in the room coaching her , we couldn’t see any facial expressions I have never heard her speak so it could have been anyone , I believe she was supposed to have been called in the Criminal Case against Alex Salmond but again never appeared.
I had a quick glance at the Scotsmans piece and apart from the bit about Loyd the online version treats you to a quite flattering appraisal of Princess Nicolas rise to fame the juicy bits about her time in the Legal profession are glossed over without comment but they are at pains to point out she unlike Loyd received no professional Legal Advice , Aye that’s hard to believe .
A funny article headlined as the SNP Government are at it again but when you read it it’s like a campaign blurb from Princess Nicola , I am confused a unionist supporting rag helps out the Queen of Deception and a stranger to the truth getting help from the Union very strange .
Ruby @10.11
sorry to disappoint you, but Robert is not the only person in Scotland who doesn’t know who the Alphabet women are.
I have absolutely NO idea, nor do I want to know.
The courts will find out or someone will clype and then their cover will be blown.
Plenty on here this morning need to be more careful about their postings as jigsaws can have lots of really small pieces but each is crucial to completing the picture, and as we have seen, the court is taking a selective view about which pieces of the jigsaw are seen to be important
I still can’t believe there are some lunatics going to vote SNP 1 and 2.
I hope those lunatics are ready to take a share of the blame once women and young girls start getting sexually assaulted in their “WOMEN ONLY” spaces.
Shame on those lunatics.
Tone
What a load of evasive patronising unionist crap. What about Wales coal and Kent’s coal you bleat. Are you so ignorant that you don’t know that Scotland had a huge coal industry too. Scotland’s oil and gas saved the UK from financial disastar in the seventies and the wealth generated was enormous.
As for the rest of you arrogant suggestion that this country is not capable of independence, you know where to stick that.
And of course you haven’t answered the questions posed.
Meg @12.01
I have no idea either, not a clue. I don’t want to know either.
Mia
You type a lot of words, but everyone of them are in denial of all the crimes Sturgeon has committed.
She is a crook, a thief, a liar.
Not fit for office.
Must be removed at first opportunity. (6th May)
Meg 12.01
Ruby is an SNP plant who would gladly see Wings Over Scotland shut down for ever more.
She detests the Anti SNP stance the Rev is taking.
She is an SNP 1 and 2 fanatic.
“AFI shall also campaign for a simple majority of the popular vote for pro-indy parties across both the constituencies and the regional lists, at the “Independence” election, and for such a majority to be understood to be a mandate for independence itself.”
We do not need “an independence election”, Alf. What we need is a political party that is sufficiently committed to independence to include in their manifesto a PERMANENT mandate for independence, just like the SNP had before they decided to make the con of the referendum policy. A vote for that party is a vote for independence.
If we have learnt something since 2014 is that the referendum is a con. It is being used by Sturgeon as a permanent veto against our self determination and was used in 2014 as the vehicle the British state used to allow external interests to tamper with the narrative and the franchise, frustrating the legitimate rights of the natives to self determine.
The way to win this is by being persistent. We are persistent not by putting all our eggs in a basket or “independence election” or con referendum. We are persistent by opening again the door somebody locked for us back in 1999 when they decided to change the SNP policy.
We are persistent by declaring each and every election from now on an “independence election”. And then sit back and watch the England parties consume themselves having to continuously fight two fronts: one against independence and the other trying to find a way to prove the entire Uk can be governed with the same policies.
We are not going to win this 2021 election. Sturgeon in collusion with the arms of the British state has ensured this will be the case. But we have a GE in 2024 to think and to prepare for. That is the one we can win if we have a real vehicle for independence, one that has independence and not a referendum, as the beating heart of its manifesto.
Is AFI that vehicle for independence or is it only prepared to play second fiddle to the SNP?
@ Mia 11:49 am
Cheers for clipping the rest of the text of my post so the small part you did quote loses context… 🙁
Or not taking into account my other posts this morning on this thread either.
Well worth a read , suspect a shock to many .
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/uk-increasingly-run-corporate-insiders-and-scotland-too/
Well worth a read
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/uk-increasingly-run-corporate-insiders-and-scotland-too/
Daisy Walker 10.04am
Excellent Post regards alternative Voting.
Sturgeon
Swinney
Robertson
Yusef
And all the rest have to go.
And I am also not convinced with these new kids in the block.
Too close to the SNP for my liking.
Before we have an independence election, we need a political party that is competent enough to run an administration.
A S announcement at 2 which area is he standing for?
Andy says:
26 March, 2021 at 12:01 pm
I still can’t believe there are some lunatics going to vote SNP 1 and 2.
I hope those lunatics are ready to take a share of the blame once women and young girls start getting sexually assaulted in their “WOMEN ONLY” spaces.
Shame on those lunatics.
Reply
“Stalker Sockpuppet” using his Andy account this morning.
My advice to women & young girls would be
“If you are not comfortable in a space don’t use it”
Mia @ 11.49am
Yes my assessment of the situ too.
Reminds me of the bit in the film “Braveheart”.
As the battle opens, Longshanks sends in the infantry to attack Wallace’s forces. Longshanks then calls for the archers to fire on the raging battle. Longshanks underling, shocked by the order, asks:” I beg your pardon, Sire, won’t we hit our own troops?”
Longshanks replies coldly: “Yes, but we’ll hit theirs as well”
Now substitute voting OR shilling for Tory, Labour votes etc with the arrows and the effect on independence cause .
Spoil to make your point or don’t turn up. Voting Tory, Labour e tal is just firing more arrows into the movement and giving Boris what he wants , see now?
Why vote Tory, Labour to give the impression of voters not wanting independence ? You’re not voting for a plebiscite here. You’re voting for an administration that is not giving us what we want.
Mia @ 11:49;
“…If you want independence and your stomach can no longer bear endorsing the toxic rotting carcass that Sturgeon and Swinney have left of the original SNP, then spoil your ballot. In that way Sturgeon’s covert unionist new new labour does not get your vote, but neither do the overt unionist parties.
It seems to me there are a lot of opportunistic unionist shills in these threads exploiting the apprehension that, understandably, many yes voters have developed towards the sick ways Sturgeon has dismantled the SNP.”
Absolutely spot on!
@Andy says:
26 March, 2021 at 12:01 pm
I still can’t believe there are some lunatics going to vote SNP 1 and 2.
I hope those lunatics are ready to take a share of the blame once women and young girls start getting sexually assaulted in their “WOMEN ONLY” spaces.
Shame on those lunatics.”
Which is – word for word – the exact same post you made this time yesterday (give or take an hour).
@Andy says:
25 March, 2021 at 11:00 pm
“I still can’t believe there is some lunatic going to vote SNP 1 and 2.
I hope that lunatic is ready to take a share of the blame once women and young girls start getting sexually assaulted in their “WOMEN ONLY” spaces.
Shame in that lunatic.”
Hmmmm, anyone would think you were trolling …
Alex statement at 2. Can’t wait. Need something to raise my spirits and someone to vote for.
Andy says:
26 March, 2021 at 12:11 pm
Meg 12.01
Ruby is an SNP plant who would gladly see Wings Over Scotland shut down for ever more.
She detests the Anti SNP stance the Rev is taking.
She is an SNP 1 and 2 fanatic.
Reply
Here we go ‘Stalker Sockpuppet’ is singing
https://tinyurl.com/2r5pyssm
@ Dan.
Voting labour, tories or libdems will NEVER get us independence. Saying otherwise is either naive or an attempt to deceive. And there is no context under which that will ever change.
I am sure I am not the only one that noticed a serious change in commitment towards independence and attitude from the SNP the minute the Rev announced many months ago that he was considering bringing a wings party on the list. Bizarrely, the SNP big ones rather than embracing this as a positive, saw it as the evil incarnated and the wails coming from the SNP faithful were something else. You would think pro indy people would be delighted at the idea of removing unionist seats from Holyrood. Their reaction pointed at the opposite.
What does this tell you? To me it told me at the time the SNP under sturgeon knew the only way it could be perceived as pro indy is if there were staunch anti-indy parties sitting next to it in Holyrood. In other words, they are all in the same team, the same deception exercise.
I have wondered for a while now if Sturgeon’s SnP is deliberately kiboshing its own majority with their overt corruption, undemocratic practices and toxic policies to ensure those staunch anti indy parties remain in Holyrood so Sturgeon’s SNP can still pretend it is pro indy.
Meg Merrilees@12:01
On contrary, any member of public could print out a list of names in a form that might get past word filters but nobody reading (including those who already knew the facts) could be sure if it was speculation or fact.
The judges on the otherhand, having found in favour of the prosecutor fiscal’s jigsaw claims, are now going to have to put the picture on the box in their explanations – which means the reasoning will also need redacting and kept secret, thus dragging the farce into a whole new area of disrepute.
Dan@ 10.17
Thanks for posting Martin Keatings tweet.
As you say we can ‘try’ and work out his position on GRA.
Basically he’s hedging his bets by saying ‘equal rights for all’.
But under the Equalities Act 2010 that is already the current position. There is not one right that I have that a transwomen (say) does not.
His very fulsome treatise on moving towards a ‘Scandi style’ prison estate is very interesting but at this point in time is somewhat ivory tower and really doesn’t bring anything to the GRA issue, in other words where to imprison fully intact men who claim to be women ie.no GRC.
By that I mean, even if the political will was there to rebuild Scotland’s entire prison estate, the money isn’t.
The point for me is if I’m prepared to abandon the SNP because the HCB protects cross dressers and not 51% of the population and women know that a vote for the SNP means GRA Self ID is assuredly coming sometime soon, I’m afraid I need more assurances.
For instance if elected would he support self ID as the SNP had proposed or not.
Alex Salmond making a statement at 1400, I wonder if this is what is being referred to by certain twitter account holder like Ghana, Jeggit, and Iain Lawson
Meg merrilees says:
26 March, 2021 at 12:01 pm
Ruby @10.11
sorry to disappoint you, but Robert is not the only person in Scotland who doesn’t know who the Alphabet women are.
I have absolutely NO idea, nor do I want to know.
Reply
FFS it was a joke!
NB Many a true word spoken in jest.
Omg is Salmond coming back?
Inundate Police State Scotland and the Crown Office with complaints about blatant contempt of court by Garavelli and her fellow hacks.
Ruby @9.40pm.
Ruby.
No one said the Tories or the Lib/Dems or Labour for that matter are now the good guys, far from it. However its Sturgeon who’s stopping Scotland from becoming independent, you obviously haven’t been paying attention as the Rev would say.
@Willie says:
26 March, 2021 at 12:14 pm
Well worth a read
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/uk-increasingly-run-corporate-insider
Excellent work!
It should be noted that the former Scottish Tories spindoctor and Glasgow Rangers apologist Andy McIver is also on the Charlotte Street books, but indirectly. He has his own “consultancy” Message Matters, which also employs the former SNP Minister Marco Biagi – a good friend of, wait for it, ex-SNP MSP Andrew Wilson of Charlotte Street Partners!
McIver’s profile in The Herald fails to mention his very recent Tory Party past:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/author/profile/78269.Andy_Maciver/
Hmmm, wonder why that might be?
Andy…Your are now my favourite poster on here. Tell it how it is. We can all see it.
Grey Gull says: at 12:23 pm
“Alex statement at 2. Can’t wait. Need something to raise my spirits and someone to vote for.”
Hmm, Un-Un-Alert Readers may have noted a few days back that Stu said he was going to put up an article up soon on what the voting options might be for the upcoming Holyrood election. Might this be relevant…
Nally Anders
This is the real poison of the Woke ideology. Anybody with left minded politics has to take the whole package or they’ll find themselves mired in attacks. Like Jermemy Corbyn, whose cat was probably more of socialist than any of the losers who where attacking him, anybody who questions some of the more loony positions soon find it impossible to function. So while a more forthright position would be better he’s probably hedging his bets just to stay in the game.
Since I have not followed every twist and turn of the case I do not have a clue who any of the complainers are and couldn’t work it out from Craig Murrays writing. And I consider myself fairly political. Joe Public has no chance of working out the criminals identities. Personally I just assume all SNP hacks to be guilty collectively because the Party supports its corrupt leader.
pixal says:
26 March, 2021 at 12:17 pm
Daisy Walker says:
Looks like Jock Penman (co convener of Solidarity) is standing in the Mid Scot Fife seat
except it isnt a seat, its a region,’
Yeah, very clever, and if he wins, he’ll either take up a ‘seat’ or a ‘region’ at Holyrood.
I find it chilling that, for the contempt of court, ‘intent was not required’ and you can be sentenced to prison; whereas, you can mislead Parliament, but unless it can be proved that you did so knowingly (i.e. with intent) you can sail on regardless. Contempt of Parliament is obviously OK. So you can be contemptuous of the body that passes the laws, but not of the justice system that applies them. A strange difference, in my opinion.
It also seems to me that the so-called possible jigsaw identification of the complainers (which would surely only apply to those who were already ‘insiders’) is deemed terrible, while forcing complainers who did not wish to testify to do so (and then dropping them like hot bricks when AS was acquitted) is not an even worse abuse.
Strange times indeed…
The National. “ why is Alex Salmond doing what he is doing” ??
For the sake of every Scot I guess. Someone needs to Stop the rot.
Stuart Mackay
Agree, the woke agenda is pure poison and whereas you hope politicians of every hue would stand up and be counted, they don’t.
I have respect for the AFI position, basically an umbrella for Independence minded individuals and I don’t require a definitive position of a myriad of topics But if I’m being asked to vote for them I need assurances that I’m not voting for mini me SNP.
So what happens if a few of them (entirely possible) gain a seat in Holyrood?
Are they just gonny sit there with ‘Freedom’s tattooed on their foreheads and sit on their hands when asked to vote on other non Indy related matters?
AYRSHIRE ROB
Robbo
Mark boyle
Haha
Same or what?
@ Mark Boyle
How interesting!
Wasn’t Marco Biagi the person the SNP chose as “strategist” in the yes taskforce?
Mmmm. Who did the SNP actually hire, was that Marco Biagi as a fully independent consultant or as part of “message matters”?
Could the SNP have indirectly placed a tory spin doctor in charge of the “strategy” for the yes taskforce?
Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnson are working for the same people at the International level. I presume you’ve all noticed the removal of our civil liberties with another six month of Emergency Powers. Is becoming the Soviet Union,
with effectively a command economy, good for our health? I’m asking for myself and a bunch of other prisoners. Can anyone explain to me the efficacy of PCR testing?
Pixiewine 12.47. If this helps, mr and Mrs Golli…
Biaggi. I’m presuming he’s related to the Punk maths teacher who worked in Holyrood High on Duddingston Road? I was never very good at maths.
In the early 80s.
Mia says: at 12:25 pm
“Voting labour, tories or libdems will NEVER get us independence. Saying otherwise is either naive or an attempt to deceive. And there is no context under which that will ever change.”
You seem to be continuing to ignore my specific point of discussion re. tactical voting in only several particular constituencies to leverage or effect change.
Blanket labelling anybody that broaches this subject as naive or attempting to deceive isn’t helpful.
Possibly you could consider it from another perspective if you were the one having years of honest campaigning amongst my community and social circles on the premise that we could do things better in an Indy Scotland, thrown right back in my face now due to the indefensible behaviour and actions of some of those that got elected off the back of those years of effort.
“Must be removed at first opportunity”
As we must eject from our parliament all the managers of England parties in Scotland at the first opportunity.
You will never do that by voting SNP, Greens, tory, libdems or labour. You will do that by denying them all your vote.
The only way you can eject Sturgeon, Harvie, Sarwar, Ross and Rennie simultaneously is by spoiling your ballot.
OT, but this from the super brain that is Kirsty …
Kirsty Blackman
@KirstySNP
· 25 Mar
Replying to @rachel__julia and @leftist_rage
I absolutely take your point on FGM, but I suppose I would have classed it as abuse rather than discrimination. I also think that I’d like to see the same penalties for someone trafficking a girl for the purposes of FGM as someone trafficking a perceived girl for FGM.’
Can I just advise anyone intending to commit an act of Female Genital Mutilation – perhaps have a wee look down below first, otherwise your going to be very disappointed.
But interestingly, it does sort of show Kirsty’s IQ challenge.
Female, Genital, Mutilation – the clue is in the name, contains 3 words only, and from her answer its clear she doesn’t understand the meaning – legal or dictionary – of any of them.
I wonder how quickly it will take for a parent charged with this offence to claim they were, in reality, merely performing Self Id gender alteration surgery, and their wee girl is actually a boy – so the law cannot apply.
Remember, a badly written law, has got to be enforced as it is written, not as you would like it to be.
Laws protecting Females from FGM, cannot be proven, if laws protecting newly adopted self identifying gender (where gender and sex become lawfully seen as the same thing), changes the victim to the status of male.
What a can of worms.
Bartleby64
Basically we are in agreement. The SNP are seen by many indy supporters as not pursuing independence at all and are quite content to continue with the status quo as it provides them with a lucrative career. So, no, in your sense they are not actually Unionists, just enabling the Union to continue while cynically pursuing their own interests. In other words, dishonest and self-serving as well as being anti-democratic in silencing and destroying those they perceive as being antipathetic to their personal agenda.
However, just as a Unionist you wouldn’t want them anywhere near governance of Scotland neither would I and many other supporters of independence. It therefore has to be be put to their ardent support that if they believe that the SNP is so intent on independence why are they now getting friendly support from the very media who so vigorously opposed them until recently?
Of course, it is partly explained by the money so helpfully granted to the ‘struggling’ media by the SG which now seems to have acted as a virtual bribe. Does that mean that they will revert back to their usual hostility when circumstances change, like in an election? Well, personally I don’t believe so since I think that the press and media are now in unholy alliance with the SNP as the media now recognise that the SNP are wreckers of the independence cause and their best means of keeping independence at bay, perhaps for a generation.
It isn’t only the media who seem to have struck a virtual bargain with this government, however, and this especially is dangerous for governance of Scotland, in that the institutions of government seem to have been co-opted. Our much vaunted Scottish legal establishment is much too close to the government and perhaps the most worrying thing for any democracy is that the Crown Office appears to be in perfect accord with the Scottish government. Any honest democracy ensures that there is clear separation between the judiciary and the executive for very good reasons.
So, as a Unionist, but interested in the proper governance of your country, it pains me to say that you should also be worried.
Re: Spoiling votes. That would be a tactic if spolied votes were really counted and voting ‘blanc’ was counted as a choice. Same as variance of postal v physical voting for signs of fraud.
Re:Where has all Scotlands resources gone and English subsidy or not, here is IMO the best and ongoing example:
1) UK Gov contacts with Norway to build the worlds biggest undersea Gas pipeline ‘Sleipner’. Financed by UK tax payers and added to UK domestic Gas consumption prices across the UK.
2) Existing GAS from North Sea went via North or Scotland and overland to England and is still in use but has too low capacity. Still the full route/access already exists / existed.
3) UK decided to pipe Sleipner pipeline all the way from far North Sea all the way to East England. In //, 6000 sq. km of territory is annexed to England from Scotland much of which this pipeline now goes through.
4) This pipeline supplies about 40% of UK total consumption
5) Not a single person in Scotland can use this Gas as there is no infra in place to ship any of it back to Scotland. So 0% of the 40% UK consumption is done by Scotland and N.I.
6) UK is one domestic market so the per capita cost of it is added to everyones bills across the UK (I am not sure how this works in practice but was stated in Gov communication as part of the project scope to pay the coast back overtime to Norway)
7) All costs are considered as UK wide expenditure so are not counted as benefits or costs to any one part or region.
Bingo! That is how you obfuscate and that is how if Scotland had full fiscal control showing with Audited records – who is producing and who is consuming and what the real revenues and costs are, then The UK would be ended in a heartbeat.
Can anyone imagine a GAS pipeline from France to Scotland, Scotland annexes part of the English North Sea North of English channel (Okayed by westminster) and subsidised by England + England can’t use any of the Gas + England is then called a net importer in balance of payments?
Daisy Walker
Re: Kirsty Blackman
Such are the mental gymnastics needed to maintain at least the semblance of a logical stance – though clearly it’s fraying at the seams. Probably doesn’t keep poor Kirsty awake a night though – unfortunately.
A much more credible and noble stance would be to oppose the mutilation of children’s genitals regardless of their gender. Male genital mutilation is a huge industry in the USA where the beauty industry is a major beneficiary.
However that in itself would open a major can of vipers for obvious reasons. I seriously doubt anyone in the virtue-signalling classes would have the mettle to take that stance.
JGedd @1.41
Damn right I am worried. Though I have perked up a bit since 2 pm. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
Captain Yosarian@7.06. You make mention of a new school built with the last 7 years and sinking into a swamp. I don’t know what school it is that you are talking about but given the timescale I suspect it may be one of the new PFI or PPP or whatever sobriquet the government give to private financed design, build, own and operate school infrastructure.
And if it is a PFI through the ever so upbeat named Scottish Futures Trust, can I just say that these programmes of build are the biggest commercial wheeze ever visited on a hapless taxpaying public.
The finance on asset procurement through these schemes is horrendous. Think of a huge oil tanker where the the accommodation block above the water is the capital costs but where the hulking remainder of the ship forward is the cost of finance. Capital cost say £30 million, payback cost maybe £130 million. And all wrapped up in it is the very very lucrative legal advice now essential for such projects.
But it’s not just huge costs in finance it’s as you allude to poor build quality. But poor build quality is inherent in the procurement model. Put simply when the client only specifies an out line design brief but then hands over all of the detailed design work and the build work to a sole entity responsible not only for something’s design and build, but also all of the quality checking then it’s no surprise that the design – build envelope gets pushed to the lowest common denominator.
Quality built our, built to the bare minimum to last effectively only the concession period ( or rental period as it more commonly would be described ) it’s no surprise that walls fall down, heating is found in adequate, build quality is poor, etc etc etc.
But do people care. I suspect they don’t. The beasts of burden don’t by and large care as they shell out their pennies. And the government, well if I was the Government I’d be sticking bad workmanship to the private operators, no messing.
Moreover, given the trillions, yes trillions in finance between everything from schools, to hospitals, to sewage works, to roads and bridges I’m surprised that no one in government is looking to the possibility of renegotiation of the finance underlying all of the infrastructure, and more, built these last twenty years. Yes it might be difficult to renegotiate all these deals, but where there is a will there is a way.