Off we go again
Posted on
April 21, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks 
-
21 04 15 11:35
Off we go again | Speymouth
Ignored
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 04-15
- 04-14
- 04-13
- 04-12
- 04-11
- 04-10
- 04-09
- 04-07
- 04-06
- 04-03
- 04-03
- 03-31
- 03-31
- 03-30
- 03-30
- 03-29
- 03-27
- 03-26
- 03-25
- 03-23
Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Oh dear!!
I wonder who is the most dangerous man in Britain, and is he more dangerous than Nicola Sturgeon?
When has ‘the establishment’ so overtly given its permission to absolutely hate something, before? That kind of vitriolic abuse is usually left to maverick individuals to espouse only THEN be reported as news. This doesn’t even pretend to be ‘better than that’.
the telegraph too folks, same headline as the english edition of the heil
https://twitter.com/george_wallis/status/590436578100715520?s=09
Labour’s London Millipede on TV this morn complained bitterly that Lord Forsooth was right to warn Cameron not to constantly demonise and publicise the SNP. Then wot did he the proceed to do himself? Aye, that’s right: copy his Tory chums by demonising and publicising the SNP.
What a dirty duo.
At this rate i hope Nicola’s security is at DEFCON 1 . There are a lot of nutcases out there.
When did the grey man crawl back oot the widwork? Is he noo a lord or still an mp or just yin o us auld pensioners? Is he oany mair savvy than when he was in Downing Street?
Och ah just minded he wis the template frae which the Murphy was drawn. Mind him standing oan them crates?
What are they trying to do?
No, really, what is the point of this stuff? Folk in rUK can’t vote SNP so scaring them won’t change the outcome of the election. Presumably it is intended to get folk to vote tory in rUK? Is it really likely that people’s highest priority is the outcome of the election in another country, and not the local economy, public services, principles? Things that actually affect their lives?
Terror on Bullshit Mountain!
The storm clouds are gathering as the prophets of Bullshit mountain wonder why their unionist arse gravy is not going down well. But we’re supposed to be in this together cries chief Harpy A. Darling as he sits with his labour chums at “all the shit you can eat” buffet and realises that a large number of Scots simply aren’t going to turn up. Assistant shit flinger Murphy wants to know why there isn’t a referendum on independence yet, cause he was pure dead brilliant at that so he was. Wee ruthie is pretending she doesn’t care about a deal she was never going to have with the SNP. Labour are trying to pretend they didn’t see that, while trying to convince some scared pensioner to vote tory, to keep out the SNP who want the tories to win. Willy Rennie was last seen peaking out from behind some curtains saying it wisnae fair and that the tories want the SNP to win.
If I was one of those no voters, and had a heightened sense of self awareness, I would be feeling like i had just been punked into buying a shit on a stick right about now.
Wow. How incredibly vile and spiteful. The London press are certainly ramping things up this week. Clearly rattled. Whatever you are doing Nicola, keep going! You have them on the run.
I’m sure if we asked the Irish we would get an answer to Neil Mackenzie’s question. This is the problem with the ballot box. Sometimes public opinion defies all the Establishment’s foaming at the mouth hate fest.
Nicola is certainly frightening them. Let’s hope that in the rUK sanity prevails.
Daily Heil no surprise but the Times using “coup” is very desperate. Oh how they begged, pleaded, threatened and lied at us to stay and now look at them.
BBC r4 news on round the clock SNP attack, today, John Major and retired Flipper Darling. Where’s Crash Gordon?
Gerry Hassan was an ‘extra’ on the News24 papers review panel last night and highlighted the different editions of the Mail for different audiences. He was ‘up there in Scotland’ while the normal pair were in the London studio and didn’t seem to be bothered by or maybe didn’t understand his point. Perhaps it is just normal practice for these journos to attack Scotland.
Also noticed yesterday when the UKIP guy, not Farage though, gave his opinion on the SNP manifesto he started on about ‘the Scottish tail wagging the English, er… British, dog’.
You begged us to stay, we are still here. We will improve your country as well as ours. Now let`s play nice.
If it all pans out like the referendum VOW 2 should appear in the Record on Monday 4 May but that is a bank holiday. Perhaps we will need to wait until the Tuesday.
Where is Federal Broon by the way?
SDM Headline should have been “How to beat AYE Problems”
Wonder what no voters think of stuff like this, it’s getting beyond a joke now. The MSM basically saying our democratic right to vote is almost toxic and Jim Murphy now on a daily basis says that we couldn’t look after ourselves (Harping on about FTA etc).
Let’s have more and more of this please. It seems to be working – lol
Since the Mail had Nicola as the most dangerous woman in the world yesterday, I can only conclude that Scotland must be the proud global leader in female dangerousness. We should surely be preparing one of our more mountainous islands as her secret lair (Muck perhaps?) and training a team of diminutive but fiesty ninja bodyguards. MI6 will, of course, have already identified small dogs as being her only weak point; will no doubt be preparing a pack of UKOK counter insurgency Westies as we speak.
Why did they want us to stay if they hate us so much?
Sometimes I think about the sort of people that actually feel proud or happy working on such publications and then I get worried and confused and stop thinking about it.
How dense, blinkered, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, classist and so on and on and on must you be to be okay about working for those papers? And the readers! I worry even more so for them…
“I wonder who is the most dangerous man in Britain, and is he more dangerous than Nicola Sturgeon?”
Depends on how the particular paper wants to vomit its misogyny really.
Better Together….aye right!
Better Together? More like Bitter Together!
We voted to stay in your bloody Union, get used to it!
Or, having second thoughts already about wanting us around?
The Herald will be right on this to fire a volley back of course.
Blisters on Gardham’s fingers as we speak.
The Record – Scotland’s voice wont take this sitting down.
In fact where are the Female journalistic voices of Scotland (from what ever side) to slap this down – they are never off Scotland 2015 & Scotland tonight.
Wheres the response in print.
Oh that’s right they’re part of the establishment too!
@Fiona – 9:59am
In all seriousness, this is an attempt to scare English voters into backing either the Tories or Labour and do away with the need for a coalition gov altogether. The fact that they are perfectly prepared to monster Scotland to do it, actually shows how shallow the union actually is. Don’t expect a single unionist politician in Scotland to actually stand up to this.
Of the 55% who voted No last year, about 30% (the hard core Brit Nats) are feeling like shit now because they can see what’s coming and don’t know what to do about it. Some will even try tactically voting for their traditional enemy, with little chance of success. For the remaining 25% (the soft ones), they don’t really care for Westminster anyway, and many have already caught the Sturgeon bug.
The most dangerous woman in Britain purrs I believe 🙂
I wonder how this plays in rUK?
I cannot believe the majority of the people there can be anything other than profoundly insulted by the assumptions of the MSM. I know that they like to encourage people to see themselves as put upon victims, and to promote “free floating indignation” just looking for something to hang itself on. But really, this level of telling stories about bogeymen is beyond patronising. It would really annoy me if I lived in rUK. Who likes to be seen as having the mentality of a toddler. In the dark. With a scary monster under the bed.
I previously thought this vitriol was an Alex Salmond thing. Playing the man and not the ball.
In Nicola Sturgeon we have a politician with extraordinary high rating for honesty, integrity and leadership and yet look at this voice of the establishment press.
It just magnifies the gulf between the London Imperial Masters and the people of not only Scotland but the Disunited Kingdom. We are treated as canon fodder.
Its so hard to accept how we are manipulated. It makes you think – what can we believe to be true.
I wonder how long it will take for all of those stupid Tories to realise that it is their own fault that the people of Scotland are now voting for the SNP in such droves it is because of that pompous Ass David Cameron and his VOW and love bombing.We are not so stupid as he took us to be
REVENGE IS A BITTER DISH BEST SERVED COLD
Only Lord Forsyth has come out to say the Tories are playing a dangerous game by stoking hatred and polarizing the Scots and English, so in that he is admitting democracy should be acknowledged.
Also, now out in the open that Darling asked Cameron not to announce EVEL the morning following the referendum, as it would invite another referendum, although I’m sure he was concerned for Labour’s demise.
Heard some journo last night, that Salmond was a very astute man, stepping aside when he did, and had read it right.
This hysteria will do us no harm, we just need not to react. I agree with those about ignoring Murphy, please do, as we shouldn’t encourage any nastiness so near polling day, we know there are hotheads.
It’s this sort of thing that makes me ashamed to be English. WM does not do this in my name.
Such monstering & denial of democratic rights to your choice of representation in WM will be reflected in rUK’s ballot boxes as well as in Scotland’s.
Hysterical
£180Billion over 5 years. Scotland share £3.5Billion a year. Totally sustainable. Growth would make the deficit/debt fall faster.
Cut Trident/illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion and a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink would pay for it. Oil on the West would be a bonus. Cut APT and increase tourism.
Let’s redefine the truth!
Boy oh boy… reporters tell stories not report news anymore. Thousands are working hard to give them all a real story on May 8th!
heedtracker says:
21 April, 2015 at 10:04 am
Where’s Crash Gordon?
I have no doubt that Gordzilla has already been approached about another intervention. Two possible reasons for his absence:
1. They are holding fire, because he is their very last chance (by their reckoning). They have to get the timing just right.
2. Gordzilla himself may be reluctant this time, because even he may realise that an unsuccessful intervention would make him look even more stupid. This time he risks losing the tiny amount of credibility he retains in Scotland, so he may be in McCavity mode. The establishment may still drag him out kicking and screaming in a few days, but hopefully by then it will be far too little, too late.
# Zoom, Zoom, Zoom
# Come on and join the Britnats
(To the tune of Black Lace)
But you love us. Please don’t go…….. Was the song they sang last year.
Now I think we might be singing D.I.V.O.R.C.E
MSM throwing stones in glass houses again!
i doubt NS is perfect who needs perfection, sanitized lives, and decision makers who are not of and do their best to deny human rough diamond.
at least she knows that people need vitality giving vitals of life or they suffer.
the others have conveniently ‘forgotten’ this fact, to stuff their vaults full.
‘woman buys things with her own money’.
christ we ALL need a decent income.
she is not dangerous, it’s the voter that is, and can’t we see this plainly seen.
a million food bank customers can’t be wrong, soup kitchens are a sign of a vibrant economy don’t you know!
we don’t steal their sweetie jar, it’s ours.
I enjoyed Frankie Boyle’s observation that if they thought Nicola Sturgeon was dangerous clearly that they had never met many Scottish women.
Cameron and Milliband seem to have found their level – shouting vile abuse at Nicola Sturgeon.
And yet Cameron is Britain’s man with his finger on the Trident Nuclear firing button, while Milliband wants to be.
Being responsible for a nuclear deterrent while screaming abuse at a tiny country like Scotland would indicate to most people in the world, that neither Mr Cameron, nor Mr Milliband, is fit for the PM job.
WTF is the point; They don’t want Scottish MPs having a say in English matters so why not have an English parliament and dissolve this so-called Union now.
We know and have always known this union is a sham; there for the purpose of asset-stripping Scotland, Wales and N Ireland otherwise fiscal reponsibility would be a given.
This could be a proper union of equal but distinct countries with trade agreements in place, a common currency, freedom of movement and a shared responsibility for the defence of all four nations.
@ Lollysmum
Nothing to apologise for. Nobody on this blog thinks English people are responsible for the lurid headlines in the MSM. We are all being manipulated by the Establishment. Many of us are resistant! That’s the amazing thing that has happened with the Referendum debate.
Looking at the headlines, Kezia Dugdale’s TV outburst “listening very carefully and reading ALL of the past SNP manifestos, Jim Murphy’s tweets etc: they did obviously expect a second referendum commitment in the manifesto and were geared up to attack that. Shame.
How clever the SNP team are.
Among the best adverts for Scottish independence I have ever seen.
We sure the SNP have not got a ” mole” directing these newspapers and television broadcasts.?
Eggstra Eggstra read all about it, The hasbeen Greyman of british politics has climbed on a stack of Eggtrays (Edweena’s no available these days) to deliver his words of (norman wisdom)to the masses,ur you,s aw listening,ah wunner if the Fragrant Mary will be at his side.
noo there,s ah man that can never get rid of the Egg stain,wan Major fuckup.
@ Fiona
What David Agnew said basically.
Both the Tories and their media are using Scotland to frighten the English voter. The establishment are terrified of a hung parliament and the fracturing of their cosy two party hegemony. They are using the Scots as bogeymen with no thought to the social fallout. These people have no conscience, not the politicians, not the media. In defence of their station they will set neighbour against neighbour in pursuit of five more years.
We really need to break away from this form of politics as soon as possible.
With Forsythe, Major and company wading in, this London – centric diversion is maturing nicely. Seems worlds away from what I experience from chapping on doors.
On one level I am amused by the rantings of the right wing media. But it is important to try to understand where they are coming from. The problem they have is that there is now a genuinely left of centre political party that looks like it is going to have influence. Since New Labour came along, there have only been right of centre parties. The Lib Dems did carry the left of centre flag for a while, but when they became yellow tories that was the end of balance in UK politics.
So now the SNP are talking about social democratic policies. They are not of the extreme left, but they are sufficiently left-wing to upset the right who have had things all their own way for a while. Stir into the mix that the SNP exclusively represent Scottish seats and we have the perfect recipe for the current outbursts of xenophobic paranoia.
The Daily Heil and its ilk have been quite happy to hear Labour saying things like “We will be tougher on benefits claimants than the Tories”. Thatcher admired Blair for moving the Labour party towards Tory values and publicly said so. The consternation of the right is caused by the SNP filling the void left when Labour tried to out-Tory the Tories in order to gain power.
What is really upsetting the right is that people in other parts of the UK are listening to Nicola Sturgeon and they like what they hear. That is far more worrying for them than the threat of the breakup of the UK. Scottish independence is, for the time being, unfortunately off the agenda. The threat of a more equitable society with the loss of patronage and privelege is what is really worrying them – and that could start happening in just over 2 weeks’ time.
As predicted many months ago, Westminster will be Westminster and do much of the heavy lifting.
Their politics, their media, their words and their actions.
No other aid required, they are breaking the ties that bind all by themselves.
Idiots.
I wonder what the effect would be if we had a Vow 2?
Gordon Brown wheeled out to offer enhanced devolved powers, or genuine federalism? Who would believe him now?
Luigi says:
“Of the 55% who voted No ….. 25% (the soft ones), they don’t really care for Westminster anyway, and many have already caught the Sturgeon bug.”
Agreed. Also (as shown by the Ashcroft exit poll at the time) they felt it was OK to vote no because they believed the extra powers they wanted would be delivered within the Union. Nicola is making that a central plank of the SNP’s pitch. That must appeal to them.
IMO if no significant powers are delivered, then many of that group will make the leap to become pro-Indy.
My,my, what merry pranksters they all are. A jolly jape dontcher know. These Northern Scotch types can’t seem to be able to put up with our whimsy. Such a dour lot, after all we are in jest here, ’tis but a bit of badinage. Jolly good, that’s told them.
As has been pointed out this guff won’t have much impact on the SNP’s vote in Scotland as it is clearly aimed at another audience.
Even if it were aimed at Scottish residents juts bear in mind that the Daily Mail sells only 95,000 copies in Scotland and the Times and Telegraph sell about 18,000 each giving a grand total of 131,000.
Or, to put it another way, about 3% of the Scottish electorate.
So just treat them like trolls and ignore. Get out there onto the streets and into the hustings and persuade people through a combination of politeness and conviction and let the the right-wing press shout loudly in their own echo chambers.
We have to remember that the Onionist meejah is owned by Non Dom foreign tax dodgers. Some are even in the Labour factory with High flats along the ex shipbuilding and docks area of the Clyde.
Whaur’s yer Charlie Gordon noo?
The more shoogly-eyed the press becomes, the more convinced I am that “breaking up Britain” isn’t about Scottish independence at all:
https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/waiting-for-the-barbarians/
Who was it that compared Ms Sturgeon to William Wallace as if that was a bad thing?
The Game’s afoot…
That’s all it is, a game
The Tories are playing the race card to inflame the English into voting against Labour for fear of the doom that may befall them from the hordes of rampaging Scots
They’re completely comfortable losing Scotland anyway, they’re used to that but they can gain in England through racism, it’s worked every time before so they employ the tactic
It should be remembered though the a famous electoral phrase of the Tories once was (these are not my sentiments)
“If you want a Nigger for a neighbour vote Labour” their words
These are the most appalling people on the planet
they will say, and do anything to achieve power to put themselves where they believe is their rightful place
If by standing strong Scotland manages to elect our choice it may ultimately not matter anyway in a Westminster sense
The political classes at Westminster will still move heaven and earth to stop us because they’ve started so they have to finish or they will look ridiculous to the English voters who are the subject of their game in the first place
And that’s the problem they’ve given themselves by using this tired old tactic
What to do next
A legal route perhaps, a constitutional route, who knows
One thing i’m almost sure of, it will be a
Shite Route…..it’s what they do….
It’s all a bloody good laugh!
@Lollysmum
Agree with Capella, you have nothing to feel shame for.
I know English folks who are also appalled by the vitriolic abuse coming from the msm.
Attack with fear & hatred has always been Westminsters way with Scottish mps at times leading the charge.
A friend in America asked me “what the hell are the brits doing” “have they gone completely mad”
So I say let them carry on so the world can see how small minded, petty and arrogant they truly are.
On BBC Breakfast this morning, Bill Turnbull said “That’s good!” in response to Ed Miliband’s reply to his question about a Labour coalition government with the SNP, (Miliband had just reiterated there would be no coalition with the SNP). Bill Turnbull quickly corrected it to “That’s clear!”
🙂
These things used to make me angry….
now the are like wee gifts and they make me happy.
Every piece of hysterical, non reasoned argument is an indication that the establishment is very rattled.
Tantrum on, you ba–ards
This is truly desperate stuff. The problem is the conservatives think it is working and according to BBC’s Norman Smith this morning, they are “gaining some traction”. They are clearly using the SNP as the bogeyman in an attempt to scare English voters into the Tory camp. God help us if it works because if the Tory’s get in they will try and crush the Scottish parliament, aided and abetted by labour. I just hope the English electorate see through this poisonous tactic and treat it with the contempt it deserves.
O/T
Richard Murphy from tax research uk
Labour- my fears
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/04/21/labour-my-fears/
Onwards
Brown splurdged his vow load all over the referendum, he’s lying grasping in a corner, a flaccid member spent.
@Lollysmum
Nothing to do with you being English or any other Nationality
It’s about Winning, the political classes don’t give a hoot who, or where anybody comes from
Just where they’re going, and they’ll use your back to do it
Kneel down serfs we need a step up
Remember – they’re not trying to scare us in Scotland away from voting SNP, they’re trying to scare those down in the Home Counties and other Lab/Con swing seats away from voting Labour.
We were always welsome to stay in the UK.
But only as serfs, minions, slaves. The kind that know their place, pay due homage to their masters, and remain bereft of any ambition or imagination when it comes to Scotland.
Or, to give this latter another name, Scottish Labour.
John Major gained a Knighthood for leading a corrupt government, servicing the nation at Westminster Poor Edwina Currie got nothing for telling the nation the truth about supermarkets and their dodgy chickens and eggs in addition to servicing her constituency and Mr major at Westminster. So much for equality
@ Lollysmum
Nothing to be ashamed of Lolly. The English people aren’t doing this, the self seeking elitist establishment are and they have neither shame nor conscience about their actions. They owe no allegiance to the public they manipulate at will. People will eventually see them for what they are and what they are doing to all of us.
I’ve quoted this before, but it seems very appropriate here.
Quoted from Bella Caledonia:
“Six months ago they all loved us and desperately wanted our input into their country. They even kindly built us a cairn to make their point. That, of course, was then. Now the priority is to tell Scotland that, if we think we have a right to vote how we choose, and that Westminster democracy should respect our choice, then we’re very much mistaken.
Britain, when you told us how much you valued us in your family of nations, we didn’t realise it was going to be the Fritzl family and you were going to keep us in a basement and abuse us.”
Almost every TV station, every Radio station, almost every newspaper, and every Unionist politician is engaged in an a full frontal assault on the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. Is this a mere coincidence? Of course not. This is a carefully orchestrated attack sourced in the Unionist Campaign operations rooms manned by the likes of McTernan & McDougall.
The Scottish electorate have woken up with Indy and built themselves a political torpedo capable of severely disabling the pocket battleship ‘Westminster’. So it’s all hands on deck to destroy this threat.
What about Democracy, you might ask. Know this, democracy is only for the third world and even there it’s a bit dodgy.
gillie says:
21 April, 2015 at 9:46 am
I wonder who is the most dangerous man in Britain, and is he more dangerous than Nicola Sturgeon?
Surely you should know that?
Why…its Alex Salmond of course!
More demonisation by the press.
This results in people being particularly
nasty in their views towards Independence
or SNP supporters.
Ultimate divide & rule.
You naughty naughty Scotch people.
Keep watching the BBC and eating your cereal.
anything else is not in your childrens interest….you are all better together with us….Honest!
Gordon Matheson introducing Jim in Glasgow right now. Orange order supporters but no sign of an irn bru crate.
Does’nt look like there’s many people there, one fellow with a megaphone wearing a Scottish resistance t shirt.
Sky TV even John Majors subject to Establishment Editing.
I have come to the conclusion that the Westminster parties do not have a strategy to deal with the SNP. The press are giving us almost 100% coverage because of their weird thrashing about behaviour. Both Dave and Ed are playing second fiddle to Nicola and it is showing in the polls.
Fantastic stuff.
I am sure I have just heard John Major preparing to set Scotland Free to ensure a conservative majority in the 2019 election.
The National was buried under the Racing Post at my local Tesco. It was retrieved and copies accidentally spread over the Mail, Times and Record.
The lads working in the stockroom came out and took four Scottish Suns into the backroom…If it goes pro-SNP then that may not be too bad.
Meanwhile an elderly person scooped up the Express and staggered to the till under its weight of lies.
I then took a break in a local coffee shop and a retired lady asked to share my table as the place was mobbed. She chatted to me happily until I opened up the National, then stopped talking and gave me a sour look. We sat in silence – with the Yes supporting owner cracking up behind her…
Such is the media’s effect on people…
Ah only stayin this morning to hear John Majors speech,but there,s piles N piles of leaflets to be stuffed,so,s am of tae the SNP shoppee tae stuff them,canny be Cybernattering aw day when there,s work to be done.
Catch You,s aw laters in the Uplift cause this lifts gone all the way tae the top.
Mr Major has been in the exciting room again. Scotland is taking stock,and we are finished taking vows/warnings/bleatings from former Prime Minsters. Go back to you peas.
Let’s see if I get this coalition stuff right. So a Tory & Lib/Dem coalition was OK, and a possible Tory – UKIP – DUP is OK but somehow Red Tories working in a loose alliance with SNP is EVIL – BAD etc. Rarely mentioned is the fact that UKIP wants to break-up Europe and another European War within 15 years!!! Maybe I need to work on this just a tad more.
Auld Rock
Did she say that? LOL
Young workers have come out of buildings nearby where Jim is preaching. They are shouting for the snp
Jim is doing a walkabout now with the media on his tail.
Check out Liam O’Hare on twitter.
Daily Mail Headline:
MAIL COLUMNIST Kate Hopkins.
‘I’m delighted to hear that Immigrant boat has capsized killing hundreds of people’.
‘It’s the best way to deal with Cockroaches’, says the hard hitting – but fair, voice of London.
Kate added:
If the most dangerous and vile woman in Britain, Nicola Sturgeon, somehow gets power over our lives, England will be flooded with these cockroaches.
Aye, they screwed us last year and we are screwing them right back!
I for one will never forget last year’s heart wrenching scenes of people, young and old, tears streaming down their faces and their Saltires trailing in the dirt behind them when news of the result was learned. Nor will I forget the arrogance and smugness of Cameron, outside No.10 the morning after.
What goes around comes around and they are not enjoying the experience. Well tough!
Hmm (twirling moustache)…there is a grassy knoll in Westminster where Nicola Sturgeon has pitched her tent, or so I’ve heard.
Gee, I’m confused. A few months ago they all lurrved us, yet now they hate us. Perhaps they realise they made a mistake of the careful-what-you-wish-for variety. Well, hey, we all get things wrong sometimes. Happens. If they’ve decided they actually hate us, why not just let us go and save themselves all this angst? Simples.
Or then again, maybe they realise that they’re now going to be faced with that pesky thing called democracy, and they don’t like the idea. It’s gonna upset the cosy chummy club that is the HoC.
And they don’t have the gumption to realise that all this hate stuff just fuels support for the SNP! Ha!
And they can do FA about it. GIRUT.
tick tock
Speaking of the Mail and it’s tax dodging non-dom owner Lord Rothermere…
” Emperors New Clothes ?@Emps_NewClothes 19 hours ago
Watch @rustyrockets tackle Daily Mail owner Lord Rothermere and his #NonDoms status. #ThingsCanChange April 21
http://po.st/O9zOCy
Its red and blue tory boy teamGB on the brink, as in the Lords could be closed down and replaced by an actual elected upper house, PR could replace FPTP, all the money our UM.gov borrows might actually NOT get pissed away in merry olde London, (house prices this month at all time high in south east of England,) slave wage economics might be tweaked up a tad putting money in the hands of people that actually do productive work, useless UKOK strike nukes like Trident that give them all red and blue tory boys creepy hard ons for that absurd world stage power could get scrapped, fair taxation on newscorps might actually happen and so on.
All of the above rattled off by same lefties I know here in England, same lefties that were genuinely shocked that Scotland voted NO too.
David Agnew says:
21 April, 2015 at 10:08 am
@Fiona – 9:59am
In all seriousness, this is an attempt to scare English voters into backing either the Tories or Labour and do away with the need for a coalition gov altogether. The fact that they are perfectly prepared to monster Scotland to do it, actually shows how shallow the union actually is. Don’t expect a single unionist politician in Scotland to actually stand up to this.
I want to add to this that I find the real insidious message – the real brain-bug of the establishment’s GE campaign – to be this “YOU HAVE TWO PARTIES” line. They all manage to slip it in.
It’s more subtle than the frontline anti-SNP hysteria (hard, I know), but it means arguably more regarding the democratic situation. It is the real indoctrination. It implies there will never, ever be anything else and just proves that any ‘rivalry’ between labour and tory is a load of bollocks.
How vile can Kate Hopkins get? Surely that is inciting racial hatred? I thought the pictures of those people being pulled out of the sea at Rhodes were heartbreaking. If they are escaping Libya then we are part responsible.
Perhaps the newspaper employing Hopkins should send her to Libya on a fact finding mission?
If Nicola made scrambled egg for breakfast the Mail would run with “tartan Monster Nicky beats helpless unborn baby!!!”
But they are worried, for sure.
And then they come to fight you,
And then ……..
Spending on Health in Scotland: Up 8.1%.
Spending on Health in England: Up 11.7%
Spending on Schools in Scotland: Down 3.8%
Spending on Schools in England: Up 6%
Says it all about the SNP, completely delusion and poor track record.
Figures from the news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05qtp40/bbc-news-at-ten-20042015
Oops!
Here’s the right link for the Mail’s non-dom tax dodging owner Lord Rothermeme getting doorstepped. 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYBPZlU4oEA
John Major car crash live on telly, many casualties expected!
Scot’s will be seen and not heard.
If any wavering No voters suspected as much during the last days of the indyref, they will damn sure know it after this election.
I can’t wait for South East England to vote Tory and not get the government they want.
Then things will get even more interesting.
The tories are right about one thing, it will be mayhem with us in there, we’ve had to be put up with their mayhem for how many years?
Reap the whirlwind.
My one consolation is that these “stories” masquerading as news,are online and being viewed by a wider more informed world,who can plainly see the bully has called in his mates for some help.
The Great British Establishment is peeling it’self open,layer by layer,in full view of the watching world,exposing us all to what lies at it’s centre.
They must think this is a crazy re-make of the wizard of oz.
They know the bully ,who when confronted by the little girl will pish his pants and beg forgiveness,so they are holding those curtains closed as best they can……but she is coming.
That’s why their scared,they are Cowards,they know she is coming,left alone maybe it will simply self destruct,but we cannot take any chances.
Vote SNP
well if they can print fairy stories so can I,after all it is a democracy.
p.s. The centre is rotten to the core,but it’s a soft centre,Inhabitated by a bunch of c**ts and right now they’re shitting themselves.
Good grief. Dae ye think that they dinnae want us oany mair.
Pair wee frichtened souls. Aw.
Well, well, look at them now.
I mean, imagine if they were actually proper newspapers. Ha!
MORE AUSTERITY?
NO THANKS! 🙂
Well, well, look at them now.
I mean, imagine if they were actually proper newspapers. Ha!
I’m pretty sure that they are just party political leaflets, No?
@Yoda
Thats not news thats the BBC.
Hopkins is pure clickbait as is most of the Mail these days with even the very low I.Q. readers of the Mail deserting it as it heads for ever more pathetic circulation figures.
Hopkins is a reality TV product who does what her public relations boss tells her to stay in the headlines. She frankly isn’t even bright enough to understand what she’s saying most of the time.
HandandShrimp says:
21 April, 2015 at 11:20 am
I have come to the conclusion that the Westminster parties do not have a strategy to deal with the SNP. The press are giving us almost 100% coverage because of their weird thrashing about behaviour. Both Dave and Ed are playing second fiddle to Nicola and it is showing in the polls.
Fantastic stuff.
So far, the media’s only response has been to throw petrol onto the fire. Strange behaviour.
Geoff Huijer says:
21 April, 2015 at 11:17 am
More demonisation by the press.
This results in people being particularly
nasty in their views towards Independence
or SNP supporters.
Ultimate divide & rule.
So far, the Better Together unionist’s only achievement has been to divide themselves. Red tories, blue tories and yellow tories all caught in a trap of their own making, starting to bite and take chunks out of one another. It was always going to end up like this.
Official, read all about it – SNP will play a role in next government – not even in italics or quotation marks.
https://archive.today/UEvmv
I am surprised the torylabour party havent yet asked jk rowling, gordon brown (as yet), barack obama, the Queen, The Pope, God, Bob Geldof etc. to tell the Scots how they are to vote on May the 7th.
Yoda says:
21 April, 2015 at 11:45 am
Spending on Health in Scotland: Up 8.1%.
Spending on Health in England: Up 11.7%
Spending on Schools in Scotland: Down 3.8%
Spending on Schools in England: Up 6%
Says it all about the SNP, completely delusion and poor track record.”
OK wise one. If any of the above is even remotely factual, why are red and blue tory teamGB freaking out like this?
Dickhead
Gumtree advert yesterday . Wanted — Clutch-able straw… Any price paid . Contact Jim@Redtories.
Had the misfortune of hearing David Steel on R4 this morning who said that John Major knew nothing about Scotland and then went on to prove that neither did he. It then turned into a love in for Cleggy and how he wasn’t getting credit for all the good things he has done. give me strength. As I commented to the other half when he arrived for breakfast you cannot separate these Unionists, they might as well be one big Party.
May I say to Lollysmum that nobody tars all of the English with this rubbish to do so would mean we were the same as our MSM and we certainly aren’t. As for those ConLabLibs, they should just get together and make one party it would be easier in the end.
At this stage it makes little difference what the British establishment spews out as far as Scotland is concerned.
The people of a Unionist mindset are not offended by their insults as they identify themselves as part of the Union and see these insults aimed at “The Other”.
At the same time people who wish to see a true democracy in an independent country shrug off these insults and in my case I think ,”Fit dae ye expect frae a bulls erse but sh1t”
The only writing that matters now, and the Establishment knows it, is, “The Writing on the Wall”
Re Patrick Roden at 11.32, Katie Hopkins has been reported to the police for inciting racial hatred under the Public Order Act 1986 chapter 64.
I am not a lawyer but to me this act also covers the constant abuse the newspapers direct towards Nicola Sturgeon and voters in Scotland.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-and-the-sun-editor-reported-to-police-for-incitement-to-racial-hatred-following-migrant-boat-column-10190549.html
Interesting to contrast the papers above with the front pages of today’s Record and Scottish Sun.
Yoda
Spending money in itself is not a virtue. It is how you spend it that matters. Spending on the Scottish NHS has risen and outcomes compare favourably with the English NHS. The question should therefore be why has the English NHS performed so poorly with higher spending. Who got the money?
On schools, the Scottish school rolls have fallen and school estates rationalised. In England they have done all manner of weird stuff under Gove with his free school shtick. Again, who got the money? What did they do with it? Was it even remotely sensible?
Unless you can look beyond the statistics to see what is really happening and who is actually benefitting all you do is repeat the same folly that has blighted policy thinking for decades.
Here’s a funny thing. A class of Primary kids could tell you how to have a secure, fair and reliable Election. But the Electoral Commission and Board can’t. Maybe it’s got to do with the fact they all work for the Unionist Parties.
Has Labour ruled out a deal with the SDLP,who have a manifesto commitment to taking Northern Ireland out of the UK?
The major problem they have, other than resorting to Major, is that their strategy kind of rested on portraying Milliband as too weak and ineffectual to stand up to Sturgeon. Their problem is that not having a chance to vote for the SNP there’s going to be a lot of those in England, and perhaps Wales, who will vote Labour in the hopes that it’s true. There are also those who will vote Labour in the hopes that they can get enough seats so as not to have to deal with the SNP.
Basically what seemed a sound strategy had rebounded big time. Hence there’s not a lot of chat about there being a second election this year and hints about tactical voting, which always seems to mean vote Tory. In fact they’ve even gone as far as claiming Milliband endorsed it when all he said was that he’d recommend followers of any part vote Labour.
One thing that did bug me is Cameron going on about this being the first time such a large contingent of nationalists would be gong to Westminster in this country. Which is bullshit as from the 1880’s till Irish independence that’s exactly what happened. The fact Westminster managed to string things out for 40 odd years before it ended in violence should, you’d hope, act as a warning. It does illustrate just how much of an ignoramus the man is though.
I wonder if this unionist headless chicken behaviour demonstrates the previous fear of ‘Break up Britain’ evolving into a much more profound ‘Wake up Britain’ reality. Self-respect, self-determination, integrity and justice can be contagious once recognised as a substantial replacement for the current WM gang, their patrons, privilege and bank balances as we here in Scotland appear to have realised and are about to benefit from it’s results.
Wake up Britain – reminds me of the movement in Finland which recognises it’s Independence and renewed politics, culture and tradition as an “Awakening”. I just wonder if there will be a new movement in England, in particular, grasping this opportunity to rise above the status quo of WM and all it’s suspect baggage. The real English National Party – where are you? I really think it’s the Wake Up they are really scared of, roused by the SNP.
Derek Bateman and others here have referred to the irony of WM now driving Scottish Independence rather than the SNP! Mr Bateman also called for “discipline” in our prospective MPs and supporters to continue the poise and measured responses of the vast majority of SNP members and Independence supporters.
As for Mr Murphy – dug the hole, jumped right down and now the walls are falling in. So be it.
on the news reporting of John majors intervention he didn’t exactly get a easy ride there was a few tricky questions regarding eh “Democracy” of all things sometimes slowly slowly even a few words of dissent regarding the Tory strategy from their own side its SNP from every party just now now nice to be loved eh ?
Cochrane is back in the Torygraph. No comments allowed. Even he admits Nicola was stunning
Ronnie Anderson @ 11.26 – happy stuffing.
Graham MacLure @ 12.14 – happy writing.
Major now joining the list of barking, batshit crazy rhetoric being fired off at random by the British establishment. I see Darling is getting in on the act as well! 😀 😀
If they are dragging Darling into the fray they really must be desperate. They all but ditched him in the last couple of weeks of the indy ref.
They will prod Gordzilla awake at some point this week too I am sure.
Daily Politics BBC style with Andrew Neil and whole show round up of current polls with no mention of SNP whatsoever, not even on their silly but no doubt most expensive BBC can buy, polling graphics thing. There was a colour fo r “other” on their thing of forecasterising.
LibDem get their own colour but nothing for SNP so if ligger Neil had even the remotest sense journo professionalism/common decency, he’d have mentioned that SNP polls far outstrip LibDem seat polls but thats not his job though.
http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/
The NHS is carrying a heavy load – it’s called PFI Debt Charges
You won’t hear Murphy or Dugdale, Cameron or Milliband, speak a word about PFI
“This is what the public needs to know and is not being told.
First, the high costs of PFI debt charges means that the NHS can only operate anything from a third to half as many services and staff as it would have done had the scheme been funded through conventional procurement. In other words, for every PFI hospital up and running, equity investors and bankers are charging as if for two. Edward Leigh, the chair of a Treasury committee report into PFI, called investor returns the unacceptable face of capitalism.
Second, we can still afford to pay for universal healthcare – but only if we stop using NHS funds to prop up banks and equity investors.
Third, it is PFI deficits that are driving service closures, not patient demand or an ageing population. Service closures have nothing to do with service redesign.
Fourth, the government has now embarked on a new path, bringing in an Act that effectively abolishes the NHS, and which allows hospitals both to enter into more joint ventures with industry and to raise up to half their income from private patients. Two monsters are now unleashed – PFI and Lansley’s Health and Social Care Act 2012.”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/29/pfi-crippling-nhs
Given the absolute best case scenario for SNP would be 59 seats (I know…), I don’t recall such a relentless beating of Nick Clegg in 2010 when it became apparent he could hold balance of power.
The media come off as plain stupid with this line of attack, as Clegg has shown how much use a minor partner in a coalition can be. I mean, what the dickens do they think the SNP WM leader (not even Nicola, who isn’t even running in this election!!) will do in the position of supporting a minority gov, let alone in a coalition?
I was under the impression that incitement to racial hatred was illegal in the UK. So where are the budding lawyers ready to make an name for themselves taking on the MSM?
Afternoon all. Gorgeous day in sunny Cullen.
Does anyone know how many of the ‘no’ voters will vote SNP in the GE? Was there a poll done ?
Can’t believe the anti-scottish, SNP rhetoric I have read. I think the Tories must be panicking having underestimated the following SNP have.
Bringing out Sir John and his warnings surely will work in our favour? Paddy Ashdown on Sky news saying Major is suffering from ‘selective amnesia’ (and swore twice on live tv!) and pointed out that Cameron was asked 5 times if they would do a deal with Ukip – and he declined to give an answer.
It’s getting awfully interesting! 🙂
-Last week a load of journos get let off for the bribery public officials.
-This week they love the establishment.
The fabled Murphy bounce makes me think of Wily Coyote and the look of bafflement that his cunning acme inspired plan has left him slammed into the bottom of a canyon. That image kind of makes me think Nicola is roadrunner… Beep Beep
I see Deborah Orr has a sane article about Nicola over on the Guardian. A pleasant change.
LollYsmum.
Your often the voice of reason on here from down south. I appreciate all you say and do for us. Your the best.
I’m “mr angry ” most of the time with the drivel being pumped out and am shocked at so many BTL comments agreeing in the likes of the times. guradian etc.
This “Scotophobia ” currently being laid out for the English voter is racist among other things but so many of them believe they own us. I have heard this from men and women i worked and lived with. The rants ARE getting through and many btl comments encourage violence .
Let them bloody try. I say.
Thankfully you give me a wee bit peace of mind LollY . In the hope that more are like you than the majority who do nothing to stop this kind of thing.
If Scottish MSM was throwing out racist drivel like the English press
When I started voting SNP almost fifty years ago, I naively thought that we had a fair and decent press in Britain. I also thought that all of our politicians were fair, decent, and wanted only the best for their people, though I still wanted independence for my country.
Meanwhile, some journalists were working for the British state, and some politicians were doing unspeakable things to children, apart from anything else they might have been getting up to.
I have expressed my fears here that the unionists will interfere in some way with the vote, as I believe they did during the referendum. Those fears are abating somewhat now, as it seems that the tide is flowing so strongly in our (the SNP’s) favour that any dirty tricks they might try won’t be enough to stop an SNP majority.
The Scottish people have at last woken up, and they don’t like what they see around them. As others have said, headlines like these only can help our cause, as well as demean the writers. I wonder what they will feel like in years to come, when they look back at what they have written. They should feel ashamed, though will they?.
OTish If this has already been WOS whipped, apologies, I’ve been in NZ for the past two weeks, but it shows the depths WM and the PM went to to thwart democracy during the referendum.
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/111867
ADDON FROM ABOVE.
We would be shouting from the rooftops to stop and at least try and bring them in line.
England will allow the elite to walkover us as it’s a handy excuse to blame us and the immigrants for the woes of the UK.
I have lost all respect for the English. I know they are not all like that but there are too few voices . Most think we’re the uppity jocks and need sorting out.
Check the BTL comments on any English paper.
David Agnew says:
21 April, 2015 at 10:08 am
@Fiona – 9:59am & David Agnew – 10:08
Might be the plan but probably too late to get a majority either way. I Stu has explained the more likely reason previously in that they don’t have to move votes, what they are more interested in doing is creating the impression that the UK is outraged at Labour ‘propped up’ by a huge SNP group. Stoking the English hatred that this is so distasteful, so unacceptable that they can pronounce ‘The people’ simply won’t accept it and we should stick with current ‘safer option’ Tory/Libs
Sadly the SNP fails to introduce re distributive policies.
Council tax freeze benefits the middle class and takes money away from services the vulnerable on.
Free tuition fees has merely cut college places (those from poorer backgrounds are more likely to go to college and then get into uni that way) and also cut university research funding.
Free prescriptions is simply a waste of money, again benefiting the middle class more than the poor.
I’m sorry, but the SNP simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny on their record in government.
It’s almost as if the block grant to Holyrood has been slashed by 11% or something.
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/UK-Budget-can-t-hide-continued-cuts-a90.aspx
How, pray tell, is Scotland supposed to have parity with England when it has 11% less to spend on its own public services?
Not to mention that the spending in England isn’t much of an increase when you consider how drastic the cuts in the previous four years was.
YODA.
You quote the BBBC a bias organisation known for lies and spin.
Why are you here spouting about SNP ???????
Fuck off and join your mates in the MSM. This is an indi site you moron.
Like your mates Dave and Collin you have nothing to offer only one liners using the discredited BBBc as your source.
STU.
where are all the trolls coming from ?
They have so few friends i suppose and the union sites are bloody bogging and full of shite.
In the words of my dear departed Grandfather who was on Grampian TV many years ago saying ” O godilmighty the wee suppy drams keep ye gaan ”
Well Nicola Sturgeon, Scotlands First Minister and her assistants will certainly require to hold tight , its a rocky few weeks ahead.
For me I’d say ” O godalmighty aats an affa wy t spik aboot ony body ”
They just dont get it !
@nana smith or Rev
As I am out working on the elections it’s hard to keep up with what’s going on – can you or somebody tell me if the institute for fiscal studies has indeed agreed that the latest round of cutbacks is not needed?
Any links?
Ya know something – I think deep in people’s minds they would welcome another referendum and I don’t mean yes voters I mean no voters. Not the die hard ne’ers but the 10% who were duped by the lies.
The boos we heard when ponsy mentioned it in the STV debate was in front of a bias audience remember and I think the unionist have watched that, thought there was traction in the negative reaction and ran with it. But they forgot one thing. That audience was one sided pro Union.
No, slashing the Scottish government’s block grant by 11% takes money away from services the vulnerable need.
Because, in case you don’t get it, the Scottish block grant has been cut by 11%. Given the choice between continuing to support the NHS despite this, or college & university, the SNP have had to make a tough choice.
In what universe is poor people not spending £8 for prescriptions “benefiting the middle class” more than the poor? Next you’ll be telling me universal free school meals are “just another middle-class subsidy.”
Your arguments aren’t much shakes either.
Groundhog day again. You must be getting bored to tears reading the same headlines in the English editions of the MSM, Rev.
The Daily Heil stopped putting these stories online (or at least cut them back a lot). I suspect that was because of the comments, which could be read online by their Scottish readers as well as those in England.
The comments were all along the lines of, “Scots are beggars. No self respect. Why should we fund them? They can fuck off.” Etc, etc.
Which is exactly what happens when you spend all your time promoting the idea that Scotland is subsidised at England’s expense. It seems to me that the same papers who created this myth and sowed this division are now too cowardly to show the end result of it because it would turn off Scottish Mail readers.
I think newspapers encourage the prejudices that people have, because they serve to legitimise those prejudices.
O/T Does anyone know how Plaid Cymru is polling at the moment? They have 3 MPs, would be nice if they could up it to 5! Don’t forget that these are extra numbers we can add to the SNP group at WM, because they sit alongside the SNP on the benches and basically vote the same way. So whatever number the SNP gets, you can add on a few more MPs for practical purposes to that total.
#ProgressiveAlliance
Yoda
You look like you are reading of a Labour Party activist script
All this crap has been kicked in the balls so many times I can’t be bothered doing it again. The SNP stand on their record and their polling figures speak for themselves.
HandandShrimp 12.22
Good answers to Yoda’s questions/statements on NHS/Schools Funding in Scotland v England.
We can’t just call posters ‘Dickheads’ because we disagree with them – we need to be better than that….and your answers were both sensible and fair
Less austerity = More debt
More austerity = Less debt
Simples.
Might it be that the male leaders of the Establishment Unionist parties seem to be far, far more dangerous than the three charming ladies who lead three non-Establishment parties?
I base my case upon these males obvious false claims of being able to mind read other party leader’s minds. After extensive research I cannot find a single SNP, Plaid Cymru or Green Party promise, pledge or Vow that bears out those Establishment Party Leader’s claims.
So, as none of the three charming ladies has said anything of the sort and, as mind reading is not possible, then I can only deduce that these Establishment leaders, (and former leaders), are engaging in what is known as Telling Porkie Pies.
What is more I took a magnifying glass and examined between the printed lines – only white space. I put the videos into my editor and checked between frames – nothing.
Seems all Establishment leaders are telling the electorate bare faced lies and the ladies are truthful. Thank you ladies, it is so nice to be treated as intelligent adults by politicians for a change.
@Yoda 1:03 pm
Because the SNP government have done so badly in mis-managing the Scottish economy, because they are so reviled, despised and shunned for their outright incompetence…
That’s why they won a majority representation back in 2011 for the Holyrood elections. That after their previous minority administration from 2007, when again they performed in such a dire manner that the country wanted shot of them.
That’s why they are leading in the current 2015 GE polls and have done for months…because they are obviously the most inept political party in government that the modern Western World has ever encountered.
Please sir, take your head out of Andrew Neils arse where you are obviously taking refuge and try breathing a little air.
Looking at the Sony email it looks like it was Sony initiating the discussion about Outlander and using it’s potential impact on the referendum result as a lever to get what they wanted, which was a stricter enforcement of digital copyright. To that end it’d be more correct to say that Sony may have gone as far as blackmailing the government rather than them being censored.
Lollysmum. It’s not your job to take the blame for the corrupt and greedy establishment. Everyone here knows that you wish Scotland well, and will do anything you can to help us regain our independence.
I would though, be interested to know your view on how this is being seen by ordinary English people. Are they buying into the lies? Or are they starting to understand the situation from our perspective? I think it would be fascinating to be in London right now.
Surely the most dangerous woman in Britain is the Queen? She can have you executed for setting fire to the royal dockyards, she has her own army, she is protected by a self-serving coterie of sycophants and paedophiles, she is the apex of an ingrained system of privilege and abuse, everywhere she goes she is watched over by a guard of armed snipers and followed by the whiff of fresh creosote.
Nichola Sturgeon is just not in the same league of dangerous.
According to Audit Scotland, the numbers in further education are down by 36 per cent since 2008. There are 48 per cent fewer part-time students while the over-25s – a crucial “second-chance” category – have been reduced by 41 per cent.
Teaching staff have been cut by one in ten in the past two years alone. Budgets are slashed at a rate wildly disproportionate to anything that can be blamed on “Westminster” or “austerity”.
All this has been carried through under the cover of college mergers, accompanied by massive cuts in resources, student numbers and in bursaries for low-income students.
Yoda
I think you mean..
Less Debt Increase…it continues to rise…how much have The Austerity saviours helped the actual debt increase again?
Oh dear, an ambulance called to deal with an emergency to discover it was a dead squirrel. So that ‘BT’ tactic has bitten the dust as well. Poor squirrel.
Taranaich said
” In what universe is poor people not spending £8 for prescriptions “benefiting the middle class” more than the poor? Next you’ll be telling me universal free school meals are “just another middle-class subsidy.” ”
What I propose is that that the lower income scales get free prescriptions (as used to be the case) and who can afford to pay it do so. The government shouldn’t just hand resources away willy nilly.
People paying for prescriptions brings in income, or at least does not waste money.
@Yoda
Regarding further education. Please read this. You may learn something. I somehow doubt it as you dont seem in any way open to other peoples opinions.
http://misssymartin.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/behind-soundbite-college-places.html?spref=tw
@Cadogan Enright
I honestly don’t recall seeing if they have agreed that spending cuts are not required. Hopefully you can get info here..
http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/bn148.pdf
http://www.ifs.org.uk/search?q=Scotland
For those wondering where Gordon Brown is,may I hazard a guess.
He will be putting his make up on and getting tarted up to receive his Honorary Degree from Glasgow Uni tomorrow.
Cue the BBC et al to arrive in masse and give him his platform for saving the Union – again.
Incidentally Alex Salmond is receiving one today,but not much news coverage .Surprised, not really.
@Cadogan Enright
I think I gave you the link from September 2014 by mistake, if you look through the list there are more recent publications
Seems like the wee tin hat woman is terrifying the living day likes out of them.
Kenny. I heard a report that a poll gave Plaid 19%. Not sure which companyv was responsible, We have a leaders debate scheduled next week on tv. Apparently neither Carwyn (labour) and Andrew Davies (Tory) will be attending.
It is obvious that the SNP will win a lot of seatsin May.
Simply divide 45 into one. Then divide 55 into three. Although a rough sum this seems obvious and I’m not sure why people are surprised the SNP will do so well. It was obvious ever since the referendum.
HOWEVER there is one thing that could scupper the SNP (in some seats). That is unionist tactical voting. Granted, there are many seats where this is impossible to work, but I think the thing is that you either love the SNP or cannot stand them. Unionist voters will be thinking very carefully and voting for the labour or lib dem or the conservative candidate with the best chance of winning. Certainly everyone I know plans on doing so.
Lots of really great comments……..The more people who read W. O. S. the better!!!
Listening to the story of Eric Boggle’s “And The Band Played Walt Sing Matillda”. . . . It suddenly dawned on me that the Establishment who sent men to die at Gallipolli is the same Establishment that’s behind the headlines “Most Dangerous Woman” ……..am I glad I’m not one of the lost souls working feverishly to maintain this corrupt power base.
Kenny 1.21
I’ve been living in South Wales now for 10 years and unfortunately, Plaid’s strongholds are North & West Wales – big areas but few seats.
It’s my impression that Plaid are not trusted by enough people in South Wales, partly because Plaid are strong advocates of the Welsh language, and South East Wales is, in the main fairly Anglicized (except when it comes to rugby).
South Wales seems to be a mix of Labour and UKIP unfortunately, so I would be doubtful that Plaid would get more than their current 3 seats.
@ Yoda
Sorting out who could and could’t qualify for free prescriptions would be a costly and slow process. Rather than save money, I think Nicola discussed in a debate that the administrative process would actually cost more than the savings made.
@The Man in the Jar
I found that article quite interesting.
i am now less sure of the college places argument however I stand by the research funding argument.
I don’t believe further education is a right. I think that if you benefit from it then you should pay for it. Just think of it as an extra tax you have to pay.
Yoda
I think the thing is that you either love the SNP or cannot stand them.
That was pre referendum and 2015…now its Love them or Find their message interesting
More austerity leads to more unemployment and lower wages.
More unemployment and lower wages leads to more benefits payments and lower tax income.
More benefits payments and lower tax income leads to more debt.
And that the path to the dark side is.
I hadnt made my mind up but Sir John has come on and persuaded me to vote Tory. I’m probably one of thousands who have now been swayed. They Westminster guys really know how to do it.
I hope I’m wrong about this but I really think we should be wary of predictions of a labour wipe-out. Stories of Murphy, Curran, Alexander, Davidson & a host of other nameless, faceless labour MP’s having huge majorities overturned by the SNP are premature. IF a party of six MP’s were to double it’s numbers to twelve it would be seen as a great success but the SNP could quadruple its number of MP’s & be seen as a defeat because of what we’ve been told. I just can’t see the SNP getting anywhere like the quoted 45 to 50 seats given the opposition ganging up to basically order their supporters to vote for the party most likely to beat the SNP. Labour’s in house magazine the Daily Record will do its best to make sure the SNP don’t do as well as everyone thinks.If Murphy holds his seat Labour will claim victory. As I said, I hope I’m wrong.
Grizzle McPuss said:
Because the SNP government have done so badly in mis-managing the Scottish economy, because they are so reviled, despised and shunned for their outright incompetence…
The fact is SNP has little control over the Scottish economy (as they so often love to point out). So the growth in our economy and drop in unemployment is down to the macro-economic management of the conservative-lib dem coalition.
To all Wingers – re: “Yoda”.
Please do not feed the troll. The chances are, any responses to his/her tripe will be construed as the antics of nasty cybernats.
College mergers have been sensibly done to maximise student numbers round subjects that were being under-subscribed and below viability level. Many of the so-called college places were in fact masking high level youth unemployment.
The resources saved have much more sensibly been invested in 25,000 modern apprentices with mor being planned
STOP feeding the TROLL! FFS.
Cadogan Enright
I found this for you, seems to be the latest.
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/feb/ifs-warns-more-austerity
There are a lot of pdf files on google . Find them by typing in Institute of fiscal studies on spending cuts Scotland.
Unionist voters will be thinking very carefully and voting for the labour or lib dem or the conservative candidate with the best chance of winning. Certainly everyone I know plans on doing so.
Some might but asking a die hard Labour voter to vote Tory is one hell of an ask. Imagine their faces if the Tory got in and Cameron pips it by one seat?
I can’t even begin to imagine your social circles if everyone you know is going to vote tactically. I think I have met one person that has said they are going to do that.
The SNP wants more tax raising powers.
But the fact is as soon as people are worse off than someone on the same income in England there’ll be discontent and the taxes will be changed to stay level.
The SNP relies on populist policies for its populist support.
Makes you wonder what headlines are still to come if they are as bad as they are now…
SNP to open trade with North Korea and Iran
SNP to raid English bank accounts to make Scotland richer
SNP to give permission for Russian ships and submarines to dock in UK ports
SNP to make UK join Euro
SNP encourage Brussels to endorse that ‘British’ is not a nationality
SNP to open floodgates to 3 million immigrants
SNP to create 12 new towns in the home counties for future immigration.
SNP to have referendum on the Monarchy
I’m sure the papers will bring out their own little belters over the next couple of weeks, without my little suggestions to help them along.
Wp says:
21 April, 2015 at 1:56 pm
“I hadnt made my mind up but Sir John has come on and persuaded me to vote Tory. I’m probably one of thousands who have now been swayed. They Westminster guys really know how to do it.”
I can’t make up my mind as to whether you’re being facetious or are just a wee bit feeble upstairs?
Graham Maclure @ 12.15 “The Other” – hits nail on head. The “othering” of so-called opponents, enemies, undesirables or anyone not a “true believer” is a tactic adopted by many unpleasant regimes.
Yoda sees The Farce is strong in Jim Boxstander…
“For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one, a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. …Hmm? On what he was doing.”
That’s a direct quote from the film. Fitting really.
I wont stop feeding Trolls until Ronnie “Je Suis Troll” Anderson orders it
If you’re planning to tactical vote In Scotland, read this
https://archive.today/FiCaK
“In words that have just surfaced, Sir John told a journalists’ lunch in Westminster two weeks ago: “From a purely partisan political point of view, the Conservative party would be much better placed without Scotland because some where down the line we have mislaid our Scottish votes”
Then this
https://archive.today/uQeAI
“Sadiq Khan Interview: Labour Would Win The Election ‘Easily’ If We Weren’t Losing Scotland To The SNP”
Sadiq says SLabour just need to make a lot more noise to defeat vile sepratists. Are you listening BBC #SNPout Scotland?
Confused.com
@ Man in the Jar
Thanks for that excellent link to the Missy M article on College places.
What she says coincides with my experience of the sector in the 90s and 00s. New Labour decimated Community Education (especially Cathy Jamieson who saw the national organisation, SCEC, closed down) and for the same reason that they hate the SNP. Any rival promoting democratic decision making is anathema to them.
Although Douglas and Wendy’s father was responsible for the Alexander Report in the early 70’s which brought together youth work, adult education and community development into one Community Education service, he won’t be the first father to be disappointed in how his good work was trashed by the children.
Kenzie
If that big word you used means taking the piss then Yes I was taking the piss.
I’d rather cut my #### off with a rusty bread knife than vote Tory (red or blue)
@shiregirl
In response to you asking how many NO voters will vote SNP at the election:
I voted NO and campaigned for a NO vote in the referendum (I’m a Labour Party Member). My reason was purely down to solidarity with working people across the UK. I believe the bus driver in Falkirk has more in common with the bus driver in Sheffield than the millionaire in Edinburgh.
However things have change – I voted for and campaigned for Neil Findlay to be party leader but I realised early on that it was never going to happen. I almost caused an uproar at one of my local party meetings because I interrupted the ‘Jim Murphy love-in’ to speak up for Neil Findlay and called Murphy a ‘Blarite’. I warned them that Murphy is marmite and he will not win back YES voters. I also told them that campaigning along side the Tories was a mistake.
The SNP have shifted to the left under Sturgeon (axing their plans to reduce corporation tax to Texan levels) and I have been hugely impressed by her. I also feel uncomfortable that the same people who begged us to stay in the union are now telling us how to vote. If Scotland wants to send over 40 SNP MPs to Westminster, then that is our right.
How am I going to vote? I’m not sure. I am torn. I realise I may not be hugely popular on this page but I do see the benefits of voting SNP at the moment but my socialist solidarity is still something that may prevent me.
I am certainly not happy being in a party lead by Jim Murphy as unlike many in Labour, I have not been ‘Labourised’.
Kenzie
I assumed Wp was taking the rip. I can’t imagine anyone saying that and actually meaning it. Major was the Tory that lost every single Scottish seat.
@taranaich, well done dealing with unionist yoda, who is talking drivel.
As someone below the national average wage, I benefit from the council tax freeze and free prescriptions. It has been proven that means testing prescriptions costs more than dishing out bog standard pain killers, or gut meds etc. and keeps minor but annoying conditions out of A&E etc
I believe Prof Curtice has also said tactical voting is a load of crap, so sorry to disappoint God’s on that score.
What a shame that a unionist troll is using the name of a much loved character from Star Wars known for his wisdom.
There is a lot of nasty anti scottish diatribe coming from the establishment darn souff.
These trouble making clowns have not thought this whole plan through. Eventually you have to try and build bridges and find mutual interests or suppress your opponent.
They did the same with Ireland 100 years ago. Some people never miss an opertunity to miss an opertunity. I think that boat has now sailed.
i do so like my morning roasting from the MSM its comforting to know they love us so much hehe
We are so bad ,bad for Scotland,bad for the UK,bad for the world and bad for the universe ,its like a broken record ,slime in this ear slime in that ear, man this kind of PR would have cost us a fortune ,keep at it guys at this rate you will have your own tory support wanting our Nicola thinking she is some kind of master villain well you lot like that kind of thing dont you lol
Boris Johnson is as much of a clown as John Wayne Gacy was.
Anyone with half a brain knows tactical voting is nonsense. There is no way they can get the numbers they need to make tactical voting useful.
Maybe in one or two seats it might work but over all I doubt it. People will resort to there default party rather than vote for someone else.
Gillie, not the most dangerous man in Britain but certainly the scariest is Jackie Baillie.
Only in my opinion of course.
Huffpo reporting Lord Pantsdown said the Bas word seven times in 4 minutes on BBC!!!!
WTF?????
Socrates MacSporran & Mosstrooper
Sorry, I find myself at odds with you folks.
Troll is becoming a bastardised word for someone of the opposite, if somewhat corrupted viewpoint. These so-called Trolls can often involve someone who has fed off the MSM and/or soundbite chatter…someone who may have taken the previous attitude of “politics doesn’t concern me”
Todays case in point: Yoda comes here to WOS arguing from an interview script with John Swinney and Andrew Neil from yesterday. His points are practically word for word to what was harangued at Mr Swinney. Perhaps Yoda is a dyed-in-the-wool Unionist, but regardless, his point of view is valid and needs challenged.
How many folks have we heard recently say that they have changed their views or had their political compass altered to point in a direction that favours our / SNP viewpoint?
I am aware that there are literally thousands of viewers of Stu’s articles and the supporting comments all over Scotland and the UK. Folks are reading and digesting us, but they are then getting informed the opposite opinion elsewhere which can often allow the arguments of sanity here to run cold.
If we want to engage & inform the vast undecided soft voters out there, we surely need to debate with the perceived undesirables. Have you forgotten the silent majority from September 2014?
It gets a bit humdrum if we all stand around constantly agreeing with one-another.
Let’s debate…LET’S EDUCATE.
Major hasn’t had his peas the grey git.
And Duncan is that you? You scamp
I saw the Record front page at lunch time. I didn’t read the story but it had a picture of Nicola and Cameron with Nicola saying something like “Oi Posh boy Cameron you are claimed” a sub header saying “Cameron rattled”.
Surprisingly neutral/positive for the Record but no idea what the story said.
Just thinking. UKIP must be really pissed that the SNP is getting all this media attention, and consequently they haven’t been receiving so much.
If the media hadn’t been hyping up UKIP over the last few years, they would still be languishing on the loony fringe where they belong.
At least that’s one good thing to come out of all this!
HandandShrimp is right when he says labour voters will never vote tory. In fact the only seats where the conservatives might win have enough libdem voters who could vote tory there anyway. think the tactical voting more applies to labs and tories voting liberal (easier to move to the centre).
There was an interesting scotsman a few days ago on tory voters… though I can’t find it online.
Also re when I said that everyone I know is planning to vote tactically. I need to slightly clarify that what I should have said was that everyone who
a) is a no voter (which is about 2/3 of the people I know) and
b) I have asked (or have heard second hand) how they will vote
plans on voting tactically.
So that is about 30 out of, well, a lot of people. So really I am just assuming everyone will do the same.
Wp says:
21 April, 2015 at 2:21 pm
Kenzie
“If that big word you used means taking the piss then Yes I was taking the piss.
I’d rather cut my #### off with a rusty bread knife than vote Tory (red or blue)”
Believe it or not, I actually thought that. I didn’t really believe that anyone could be that daft. :-)))
It’s got so ridiculous I even head Eyebrows Badger Darling on the radio this morning.
Project Fear has achieved a new rank; Project Laugh at This.
Grizzle McPuss @ 2.34 says
“It gets a bit humdrum if we all stand around constantly agreeing with one-another.
Let’s debate…LET’S EDUCATE”.
At the risk of being humdrum, I agree. How we handle the argument, hopefully with good grace, good information and good humour, will sway the seekers who visit this site.
Orr @1.29 re Outlander
That’s even worse a government giving concession’s over a TV programme.
Not wanting it broadcast badly enough to go against their so called free market principles,says more about the extent to which they exercise control over what we can see.
Though if the other rummors are true (sky was going to broadcast it in November then mysteriously pulled out) IMHO that looks more like the government interfering,and I can’t for the life of me think why…. Lol
@Yoda
Tactical voting would work if it was co-ordinated.
But it isn’t, power is too much of a lure for them, they don’t love the union that much.
@valerie
yes…I didn’t see the bbc interview but did catch the one on Sky news. He was discussing Sir John having selective amnesia as he tried to do the same with the far right (he called the far right the b******s) – several times. Didn’t bad mouth the nats, only Sir John, the tories et al. Very entertaining.
Matchless
A Scotswoman is hard to match
The equal of any man on any patch.
If you doubt the veracity, seek confirmation from any Scotsman.
Nicola can look after herself, it’s her opponents that will require all sorts of remedial treatment.
Yoda at 2.04
The SNP already has more tax raising powers but has sensibly never used them so can you kindly stop talking shite?
The SNP wants all tax revenues raised already in Scotland to be accrued to Scotland, which is an entirely different thing.
If you have any sensible points to make please do not hesitate to put them in front of us
…ignore them. Their declining readership would suggest everyone else is.
O/T
Its getting more ridiculous as the Lib Dems launched their manifesto today snigger snigger.. 🙂
Wee Wullie Rennie (ie Barney Rubble) honestly i might just read some of it for a laugh! 🙂
I suspect it will be even funnier than Ronnie Anderson being called a Troll!
Now that was funny.
🙂
Yoda .
2/3 of the folk you know are NO voters ?? Aha got yeh.
Ok so you live in Ibrox. 🙂
Funny thing that . 9/10 folk i know are YES voters and they will vote SNP and as you know it’s a hell of a lot.
Tick tock.
Just had another LIEbour leaflet delivered by the posty and this time a bloody letter tucked inbetween a pamphlet for discount funerals. Says it all eh 🙂
Opening the letter and there was Gordon “I stole yer pension” Brown egging (i know 😉 ) me to vote lIEbour in the most crucial election in history. No where to send it back to freepost so popped it under the grit on my cat litter tray.
You’ll never believe how much PISH it can soak up.
That’s three leaflets in as many weeks. Where are the LIEBour campaigners ????
Ah forgot, canny bus them up from darn sarf cos there needed to prop up the shite on offer there.
Just helped fill in next doors postal vote. She’s a wee gem who was scared by the labour canvassers into voting no. She was at pains to show me she supports ” our wee Nicola “. ( her words)
84 years old and she knows more about politics now than ever. I am really chuffed. She was upset last year and knew she had made a mistake. Not so this year. 🙂
Keep talking folks. Especially the elderly who have no internet. I have been trying to do this for weeks and even if i am successful only once it means i have brought one more NO voter back to the light. canny be a bad thing.
YES voters and SNP voters are a right cheery lot. Always got a smile on their faces.
Unionists can be spotted by the frown and steam coming from their ears when folk ignore them as they pass.
@Yoda says: 21 April, 2015 at 11:45 am:
“Spending on Health in Scotland: Up 8.1%.
Spending on Health in England: Up 11.7%
Spending on Schools in Scotland: Down 3.8%
Spending on Schools in England: Up 6%
Says it all about the SNP, completely delusion and poor track record.
Can you get any more idiotic, ignorant and ludicrous, YODA?
May the Fear be with You.
You must imagine we Scots are as stupid as you really are, YODA.
Here’s a few wee hints for you that the numptie here is YODA. I’m about to have a good laugh at your idiocy.
FACT – The Scottish NHS HAS NEVER BEEN OTHER THAN INDEPENDENT.
FACT – The Scottish Education system, HAS NEVER BEEN OTHER THAN INDEPENDENT
Basic logic and basic arithmetic show that the above indicates they cannot be directly compared. BTW: There is no such thing as an English Education System nor an English NHS. Both are UK, Functions. which is why they are funded by UK ministries with UK funding. England has no elected Parliament so England has no direct funding by block grant.
Thus to idiotically attempt to compare two totally different systems shows a childlike mind-set.
I suppose I’d best spell it out for you as it probably is well above your mental capacity to figure out.
There is no common starting point in either calculation. Thus no way to calculate to what degree they were underfunded, (or indeed if they were even underfunded), to begin with. The increases could be only to compensate for inflation. Not only that but as the systems are not mirror images neither are the costs or services provided.
There’s more, much, much more but that will suffice to prove the whole exercise you have attempted to highlight is a bogus and rather stupid attempt to prove something that is un-provable.
When does your shift end Yoda. Will the next one here be from the same UK department? Are you from a ministry of from Battalion 77?
Oh! What a tangled web you weave, etc.
May the FEAR remain with you.
Murphy not doing very well in the popularity polls….
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/apr/poll-sturgeon-most-popular-leader
Yoda is clearly a new troll, which is good because it shows just how worried some are by the SNP’s high polling figures.
John Major will be primarily remembered for making the nation laugh uproariously when the public heard about him shagging Edwina Currie. That and the “cones hotline”. 😀
He’s a weak dweeb who was forever fighting a losing battle to his parties right-wing Eurosceptic nutjobs. Something he has in common with Cameron then. 😉
Valerie. 2.34
Ashdown has sussed there is a market in England /Britain for those who agree with the eminently sensible SNP policies and object to the monstering of Scotland.
This would resonate with some lapsed Lib/Dem voters like our own Rev Stuart.So he is trying to sound like the voice of reason for those,especially in England who cannot vote SNP.
Let’s face it Lib/Dems have nothing to lose.
Not that I’m suggesting Stuart would be swayed you understand.
@Robert Peffers
You are right when you say that they can’t be compared.
For example, scottish spending on health could be higher, just rising slower.
But my point was that the SNP can’t keep on claiming that only they will spend on the NHS; that other parties wont invest in it etc when the record shows otherwise.
That said I find your tone angry and rude and (as others on this post have pointed out) you are not going to persuade people by being aggressive and insulting. And no, I am not an idiot I just have a different opinion to you. At least @Grizzle McPuss has the decency to realise that.
Westminster borrowed £6Billion to spend on Student loans. Half of which they will not get back £3Billion. That could be the reason for increased spending. Rising student debt.
There might be a decrease in College places but an increase in apprenticeships. Colleges have been refurbished. £Millions.
Increased spending on social care mean less needs to be spent on SNHS. Social care £100 a week, Residential care home £600 a week, hospital care £600 a day.
Scotland already spent more on SNHS. It has increased £1.8Billion to 11.8Billion.
@John Dickson (@NkosiEcosse) says:21 April, 2015 at 12:50:
“I was under the impression that incitement to racial hatred was illegal in the UK. So where are the budding lawyers ready to make an name for themselves taking on the MSM?
I wouldn’t swear to it, John, but is it not the case that UK/English law doesn’t recognise Scottish as being a different race as we have UK passports?
Sir John Major is the Tory equivalent of Gordon Brown and is having almost as much impact as the believer in vows. The desperation being displayed by the southern media and the Tory’s is so intense that I suspect they intend to resurrect Enoch Powell , now that would sit well with Nigel Farage. Now they tell us that freedom and democracy only applies if you accept and believe in Our Union but if you do not your democratically elected MPs who represent a Country which is part of that United Kingdom cannot vote in Our United Kingdom parliament. However if you are elected on the basis of religion, anti EU and anti immigration you can vote and you can even join a coalition with us. This from ex PMs of the Mother of all Parliaments. AYE RIGHT.
Yoda,
I have no intention of picking at any of your comments or arguments. Far from it. However, I will say this…
You have no chance of turning anyone on this site. This is a site that has a lot of seriously committed guys to the cause of Independence (…or at worst, the second best option of Home Rule).
I don’t state, just as many others here will state, that everything is going to fantastically brilliant with no problems at all should Scotland become independent. Far from it. We will have problems. We may have major problems; that has also been stated …but they will be OUR problems to fix; not left in the hands of a Westminster elite who just do not care for the people of Scotland.
But what it will mean should we get independence, or even FFR, that at least we have the levers to try and change the problems we have; primarily …poverty.
We are not delusional. We are not Bravehearts. We are committed members from all aspects of the social fabric of Scottish society who look to take Scotland in a different direction from the unfair system that we have lived under for 40 odd years (if going with just our lifetime, and not the last 300 years).
Westminster has absolutely no intention; absolutely none, in handing over any of the major taxation levers to Scotland. They, and I state, they …have ruined the United Kingdom. It was they who bankrupted the UK. It was they who took us in an illegal war. It was they who are privatising our beloved NHS. It is they who have controlled the media until it has become a parody of Pravda itself.
Every person on this site did none of these things. All we try to do is make Scotland a better country. England has its own problems, and only the English electorate can sort them out. We have tried this in a Union. It has failed. Certain problems between the two nations now clash; immigration v poverty. We need immigration; England fears it. We need to solve poverty; England refuses to hand us the levers to do so.
We seek the alternative. A fairer nation. A more egalitarian nation.
If you have never read Scottish History, then honestly …do so. You will find a treasure trove of information about our country’s history that we were never taught at school. By reading it, you get a deeper understanding of just how rich the history and social fabric that enriches Scotland. I have read English history too, and have found it just as enriching. Both are worthy reading.
I also have Unionist friends. Some voted ‘No’. Some actually voted ‘Yes’! The99% of themare still my friends. There is no bitter division in Scotland. All nonsense.
But when looking at this election, I find it staggering after being told by the Westminster elite that Scotland was cherished, wanted and should lead. Now these very same people who said those things, now perpetrate that the Scottish people should not be allowed to influence future UK politics.
Simply put …if our views are not wanted …why are we in this Union? It’s a question that none have answered so far within the build up to Election day.
The point about prescription charges is that it barely made enough money when all the overheads were taken off to justify it. Putting the charge up would simply make people more reluctant to actually by their prescriptions. Some people either have a very restricted work sick-pay scheme or none at all. That means that people can get to a state where being ill means they can’t afford the medicine they need to get well sooner. That in turn can result in some trying their arm at going to A&E on the chance that they’ll be given them there.
On the other the justification for free prescriptions assumes that the additional cost will only be the money charges generated. The flaw in that logic is that free charges might result in more people actually putting their prescriptions in. However that only illustrates a further reason for abolishing the charges.
The same logic applies when it comes to proposing charges for doctors visits. If people are put of going to see a doctor until their symptoms get unbearable there’s more chance of a condition that might be simple to treat, if not cure, developing into something far more expensive.
Not to mention that for both fees to see a doctor and to get a prescription to be justified you also have to take into account the effect on GDP and the wealth of the nation that extended periods of sick leave can cause. Not only does the state pay statutory sick pay but if someone is on a lower or no wage due to being ill then the cost to the nation is greater. It’s in the public interest that the work force are kept healthy.
As Robert Peffers points out comparing two completely different systems is pretty meaningless.
More over quoting percentage changes is pointless when you don’t know the starting positions.
So, for example, say country X increased spending from 5 to 10 but country Y reduced from 100 to 50 – country X would have increased spending by 100%. Meanwhile country Y would have cut spending by 50% – but they would still be spending 5x as much as country X.
And there in lies the problem of quoting the BBC. Their standard of journalism is now no better than your average tabloid newspaper. They don’t question or put things in appropriate context.
Two minutes of Google search from an idiot like me reveals that last year UK government spent £2101 per person. Meanwhile Scottish Government spent £2245 per person.
John Major famously told us during the campaign for Devolution in 1997 that, by voting for devolution, we were threatening to wipe out 1000 years of union. He seemed oblivious to the fact that, at that point, the union was not even 300 years old.
@orri
Re prescription charges. In addition to what you said why should someone who is paying more in tax be denied the benefits of the system that they are paying more than the average into.
On health that is…
I never hear UKIP supporters and Europscetics complaining about the Scottish referendum being a “once in a generation” opportunity.
Funny that.
They don’t want you to read the manifesto.
It is available for download.
Go on scare ’em – read the whole thing.
@ JLT
That’ll do nicely. 🙂
TWO items spotted in the Guardian today trashing the smears against Nicola. Like the guardian never trashes anyone too
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/21/tories-and-rightwing-press-resort-to-sexist-sturgeon-jibes
The BTL comments are a hoot. Some down there are off their heads.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/21/nicola-sturgeon-snp-leader-old-two-party-system#
Much better . Why are they slagging Nicola Sturgeon. …. Cos she’s good 🙂
Two more weeks of this and ten the troops are sent into Scotland to deal with us uppity jocks once and for all.
Sometimes i am surprised by it all.
Yoda you should be ashamed when Ronnie Anderson makes a better Troll.
Whatever we’re doing, its working. You can sense the fear.
I pity the gullible fools who soak this shite up.
News from down south that used to be taken as gospel in Scotland is now met with derision, suspicion and downright hilarity.
Long may it continue, long live wings.
The British Establishment Is Losing Its Shit at the Thought of a Labour-SNP Government
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/queen-palace-coup-miliband-snp-cameron-huitson-345
@ JLT 3:50 pm
That Sir, is a response and a half.
Bravo.
Having been on the receiving end of dross like this during the referendum, Scots can easily recognize the bullshit. Folks in England are just getting their first real taste of this new type of politics.
yoda, the increase in English schools and hospitals revenue, are going into pfi and healthcare company profits. check it out,
@yo da
Let me fix that for you
Less austerity = Less death
More austerity = More death
Simples.
@ JLT 3.50pm
Well said Sir. Bunnet well and truly doft.
a) is a no voter (which is about 2/3 of the people I know) and
b) I have asked (or have heard second hand) how they will vote
plans on voting tactically.
So that is about 30 out of, well, a lot of people. So really I am just assuming everyone will do the same
You know 30 people Yoda?! How come? according to this https://twitter.com/Effiedeans lunatic, #SNPouters are existing undercover, hiding in anonymous fear from vile separatists in divided hellhole Scotland, although the clown does make red and blue tory Scotland look like Allo Allo meets Terminator 1.
“I will say this only once, if you want to live, vote tactically, using my special free Daily Telegraph tactical voting wheel of teamGB rule Britannianess.”
https://twitter.com/Effiedeans
#UKOKnuts
MSM scared of Milliband implementing the Leveson Verdict. Murdoch would have to sell a title, as no one should be allowed to control 30% of the Press.
@Yoda 1.25pm
“More austerity = less debt”
I’m not so sure how simples that is.
Have we not had five years of austerity in which time the debt has doubled?
@JLT
Well said.
@ Yoda
As to that old chestnut about prescription charges, I remember when Labour in Wales cancelled prescription charges, that they had done an audit which showed that the administrative costs of the system of collection added to the long term problems being passed on to the rest of the health service, made doing away with charges a net benefit to the community.
When charges go up and up as they have done in England, people might well be faced with several items on the prescription list amounting to a total prohibitive cost for them personally. In these cases, people might choose to select from the list – usually the cheapest items – whereas their condition can only be properly treated by all the items prescribed. A condition which might then have been eminently treatable by medication at home, then becomes intractable or very much more serious, requiring hospital treatment and a greater cost to the community.
Apart from the hidden financial cost to the community, making prescription drugs more and more expensive can in the long run affect the whole community via contagious or infectious diseases not properly treated. There is such a thing as being pragmatic as well as humane in ensuring herd immunity.
Rev Stu has gone on walkabout. The trolls have come out.
I wouldn’t call Yoda a troll – not an Yes/SNP voter certainly but pleasanter and politer than many we have had drop by.
I miss Captain Caveman he was very amenable.
JLT.
That’s the third time i’ve read your comments with envy. . Incase i haven’t already said so thanks for that. bang on the money and put in a way i cannot. Brilliant bud . 🙂
Fiona says:
“what is the point of this stuff? Folk in rUK can’t vote SNP so scaring them won’t change the outcome of the election. ”
It helps to explain a LAB-CON government to a confused angry electorate in rUK?
Ironic, isn’t it, having independence supporters running around calling Unionists all sorts of idiots etc and then those same independence supporters help the filthy rags which shite all over our cause by posting direct links to those same rags.
Nana Smith says:
“The British Establishment Is Losing Its Shit at the Thought of a Labour-SNP Government”
Wow! I quote …
“There’s good reason for believing the real story here is that it is the Conservatives who have approached the Palace about shoring up a potential Tory minority government that cannot command a majority.”
My favourite bit is “glossy launch disguises real agenda”. What would an authentic launch have looked like in the Scottish Daily Mail’s view? Media blindfolded and led to the basement of a Glasgow multi-storey? A tartan grunge theme? Masked bodyguards?
Instead, it seems to have been the most accessible of all the manifesto launches, with a leader open to unscreened media questions on a broad progressive vision for Scotland and the UK.
Truly terrifying to some, it seems.
O/T
Chunky Mark -The radical Scottish revolution is here!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGsx-Y_AwrA
@Yoda says: 21 April, 2015 at 1:03 pm:
” … Council tax freeze benefits the middle class and takes money away from services the vulnerable on … ”
Claptrap, YODA, why not quit while you are not made to look any more of an idiot?
You obviously have no clear idea of how Councils are really financed and it sure as hell is not from council tax.
Councils receive the majority of their funding from the Scottish Government through, “Aggregate External Finance”, (AEF). This consists of three parts, (a), Revenue Support Grants, (b), Non-Domestic Rates and, (c), Income and Specific Grants. The level of central government support for each authority is determined by the, “Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth”, (ATM – John Swinney MSP).
It is distributed by the Finance and Central Services Department of the Scottish Government. Councils can obtain additional income through the Council Tax which each council itself sets. In addition each council collects Business rates and charges for various services that council provides. For example parking charges.
Thus if a council is well run it only derives a very small proportion of income from Council Tax. Which explains for the hard of thinking why they don’t tell Swinney to sling his hook and just ignore the Council tax freeze. It is why some councils have lower council tax than others.
“Free tuition fees has merely cut college places (those from poorer backgrounds are more likely to go to college and then get into uni that way) and also cut university research funding.”
More claptrap, YODA, you really are not worth whatever they pay you. The Scottish Block Grant was cut due to the English Student fees. That meant the UK Education fun ding was cut by that sum and Barnett Consequentials cut the Scottish Block Grant. Laughably the UK has been unable to collect Student fee loans because of zero hours contracts and low wages. God you’re thick!
“Free prescriptions is simply a waste of money, again benefiting the middle class more than the poor.”
Dear God! What a Wally! It takes more funding to both means-test selective charging and to police it than it does to give it free.
I’m sorry, but the SNP simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny on their record in government.
Oh! Hilarious, YODA, I’ve not seen so much rectally sphinctered bovine waste matter since I left the farm as a wee boy in the 1940s.
JLT
Eloquent – hat tip to you. That posting is a keeper.
Just Trollin in ( ah mean clocking back in fur ah Troll aroon ) then am aff again tae cause havoc somewhere else.
Yoda you should huv payed mair attention tae yer master, the batteries fur yer Light Sword hiv run oot. People on here Duel with Auld fashoned Claymore’s, you,ve nae chancety of winning ah lollypop never mind the argument.
Stoker .
Calm doon man . Much of the stuff we pass on is BTL and when archived they miss them out. plus we see lots of stuff (ammo) and pass it on. If folk don’t archive should we just drop the stuff.
I don’t buy ANY papers but scan them all. I don’t pay a TV license have joined the SNP and never shut up telling folk around me what’s really going on.
A wee peek in the paper will hardly matter. We are too small a group to really matter.
Other than that . Carry on a s normal bud. I enjoy your stuff. your just as angry as me and i’m Mr Angrierthananyone.
Yoda.
Your not going to change us or yourself here so have to ask why your here? Your wasting yours and our time.
All good points on prescription charges folks. Remember, as we are often told, we have an aging population, and many of them are in reasonably good Nick, but need maintenance of such things as blood pressure, arthritis, diabetes etc., The GP is the gatekeeper of the budget, deciding on frequency, and they often prescribe cheaper versions of drugs too.
Primary care is just that, and should be with your GP, until it’s something major beyond a surgery call/visit. Thus many of these wear and tear conditions are dealt with via a script.
I also agree it should be universal, to save admin overheads, but as mentioned above, high earners have made their contributions.
nuclear testing site
O/T
Anyone else have problems with the site earlier on?
I tried about a dozen times to get into the site.
It seems to be working now.
Gary
@Yoda,
thanks for you comments as they have resulted in some classic and very educational responses.
@JLT and @Robert Peffers – I am going to need two hats to doff.
What happened ??
Couldn’t get Wings for ages anywhere.
You ok Stu.
Something is wrong with the site, keeps crashing!
Site is back
As I was typing before the Rev went AWOL
“Statistics are like mini skirts … etc”
Yodas figures mean nothing without context.
HMG spending can be easily found on the relevant website.
These are the latest figures I could find from PESA 2014
http://tinyurl.com/ncg42z3
Spending on Health in Scotland 2012-2013: £2115 / person
Spending on Health in England 2012-2013: £1912 / person
Spending on Education in Scotland 2012-2013: £1441 / person
Spending on Schools in England 2012-2013: £1360 / person
The figures show that Scotland pays more per head in education and health than England. England needs to increase its % spend just to catch up with Scotland.
Rev Stu on twitter knows there is a problem
Prescriptions help the sickest not the wealthiest.
Gary, we know it’s you. The hint is at the top of your posts.
To everyone who gave me a nod , thanks for that.
I think when we get people who come on to Wings, we will get the odd person who is looking for a response. In the past (even last night), there are times (depending on my mood) where even I can be quite catty with these people. To be honest, we shouldn’t, and I’ll say why in a moment. But, sometimes its easier just to state our ideals, our own quiet view of how we perceive things, and then send them on their way with food for thought.
One thing I suppose we must beware off, and this is the point that I was coming to as stated above; there are people of Unionist persuasion who do come here. They may never comment, but they will view all that is being said.
These are the people we must hope to capture. These are the people we want to give a possible perspective of what could be, and why we don’t see an independent Scotland as a place with no problems. By acknowledging that we WILL have problems, it grounds us in their own thinking. It makes them realise that we are them, and in many ways, they may not be so different from us in their own thinking.
That is how we win them over.
For people like Yoda and SensibleDave. Don’t slag them off. Quiet reasoning and moments to ponder is all they need. If they get abusive …well …who hasn’t been on the end of one of Stuart’s ear bashings (LOL). He’ll deal with if they push it too far…
@Yoda
Just don’t ask anyone how all this is paid for, it’s rUK that pays the bills and unless we get a rise in the oil price it’ll be the rUK that pays for the foreseeable future.
Yes, site is continually crashing, when I go to reload page, takes an age, then ‘page not found’. Doesn’t matter from where I try to enter site from, whether duckduck, Rev’s twitter or google, evevn wiping cache doesn’t help…then just as suddenly reappears.
There is definitely something up.
The SNP has achieved it secondary aim of being a force in UK politics and, so it would appear, the backlash has begun. The Tories are going to plug the “vote labour – get SNP” line and Labour are plugging the “vote SNP get the Tories” line.
The Tories are now gambling that they can scare enough labour, Lib/dem and Ukip voters to vote Tory or get the SNP – maybe even to win an overall majority. (which, incidentally, is the outcome that would most likely produce a new referendum call – and possibly a Yes majority).
The anti-Tory alliance threats has produced, I suspect, exactly the reaction that the very clever Ms Sturgeon wants. Create a “bunker”, “everyone hates us” mentality and then go for another referendum. Very, very clever.
Just watching Jon Snow demolish some eejit who used to be deputy PM.
It’s not amazing that the Unionists don’t want to talk about the things like upgrades on the A82 Pulpit Rock and the Crianlarich bypass overdue by 40 odd years now almost finished by an SNP goverment. The unionists did not see the point in spending money on these works because Oban, the Isles and Fort William were viewed as Pro-SNP, vindictive barstewards. They only ever wanted to help themselves, the worst thing is even in the deprived areas of the central belt fared no better even though the voters in these areas kept returning them to wastemonter? Still things have changed and will continue to change for the better, for all areas and communities throughout Scotland. Vote for Scotland, vote SNP. We are on our way and this time we will make Yes!
Stu on twitter says
NOTE TO READERS: we’re a little sluggish atm because we’re on the backup server while the main drive is replaced due to hardware errors.
These people are reactionary idiots. They are destroying their precious “Union” with every word. Keep it up you fools. The people of Scotland are way too politically savvy to be impressed by these pitiful childish rants. A legal, progressive, justified idea has found its time. Live with it.
Colin Rippey. 7.11
OK Colin so why doesn’t Westminster give Scotland Full Fiscal Autonomy and then rUK won’t need to pay for it all,and we’ll all be square,and no one will be subsidising anyone.
Let’s see now, any democratically elected MPs in the UK are entitled to be part of a “coalition”, be they a party member or an independent, however this excludes anyone from Scotland where any potential coalition is called a “Dangerous Nazi threat”?
A party manifesto is a declaration of intent for the coming parliament, however if its the SNP, they are obliged to list everything that they intend not doing, ever? Is there enough rain forest remaining to support Dim Jim’s latest Dumb request?
The Daily Mail has just been revealed to have run a support campaign for the UK Nazi Party, so they get to call the SNP the Nazi Party, even though they have ZERO in common with them?
Now we could all go back to school and unlearn common sense and then we could live happily under the boot of the Westminster elite, or we could kick these B***dards out of our lives forever by voting SNP?
@Yoda says: 21 April, 2015 at 3:36 pm
” You are right when you say that they can’t be compared. For example, scottish spending on health could be higher, just rising slower.
So even the explanation flew over your head. I’m not surprised. Every function of every government would probably claim end more. Thing is that your point was sheer idiocy. The services are nor directly comparable by funding. They are more closely comparable by results and efficiency of services. For example Scottish A&E figures over the past year show Scottish A&E treatment time are more efficient than English A&E treatments according to statistics.
It is quite obvious you just do not understand how either governments work. Mind you I do not claim to be an expert but where you and I differ is I make no claims that I have not checked as true and you just quote from some political party’s crib sheet. Furthermore if I don’t know any particular fact I know how and where to find the truth.
As to me insulting you, I deem you to have not only insulted my intelligence but my country, my country’s democratically elected government and my country’s electorate. Such claims as you have made on this site have every indication of you being here for just such a purpose. Give it up. You just do not have the intellect nor any facts that are not provable as utter mince.
Every accusation you have made is complete and utter twaddle. Good grief you don’t even know how council’s are financed yet make insulting claims about them.
You remind me of a young lad who laboured for me many years ago. The tradesmen had been talking football and the subject was comparing how the skills of the game had become worse while the athletics of the game had become better. We spoke of past skilled players. The young lad thus had little to say.
He suddenly burst out with, “The best game I ever saw was the one my granddad told me about”. One gets the impression from your failure to grasp the explanation of why your complains of the SG are mince is due to what your Granddad told you.
YODA, I love a good debate with a good opponent who can put up a good argument but you are not such an opponent.
Was unable to get back on site for two and a half hours.
____
@ YESGUY (5.07pm).
Behave yersel, it has nothing to do with getting riled.
It would take more than somebody posting direct links to rile me.
I’m talking practicalities and facts, not through anger.
So, please, spare me the “calm down” guff, eh!
One or two corrections to your post.
(a):”if folk don’t archive should we just drop the stuff?”
If you have the ability to compile a post you have the ability to archive. If you’re too lazy, or unable, to archive then you don’t help the Unionist rags by posting direct links to them and helping to raise their advertising revenues. You also have the option of typing and posting the general gist of whatever it is you think is so important. You always have options and all of them avoid helping the Unionist cause.
(b):”A wee peek in the paper will hardly matter. We are too small a group to really matter.”
Utter tripe. WOS recorded approximately 350,000 readers last month and at its peak can receive anything up to half a million.
Far more people read WOS than actually participate by posting.
Every time someone posts a direct link to a Unionist rag they are potentially sending thousands upon thousands of new customers to that rag. You are also helping them to pay for all the shite they write against our country and our cause.
This is not a trivial matter, it’s a very important one.
Do you forget what these rags have also written against WOS?
Also, ask yersel, how many of these rags allow direct links to WOS.
Quit helping the Unionists and get back to your Troll baiting.
Talking of which, look, there’s ronnie, quick, go get’m tiger.
🙂
Yippee – sensibledave eing anything but, hi doll.
(missed a B for bottom)
@ JLT 7.09
Please don’t put me in the same box as Yoda.
See my missives on the “Zoomers to Stun” thread 21/04/15, at 1.00pm and 1.17pm.
@ JLT
As Andy Grey used to say, “you beauty, take a bow son.”
Yoda says:
21 April, 2015 at 1:03 pm
Sadly the SNP fails to introduce re distributive policies.
Reminds me of the Monty Python Movie the life of Brian.
What did SNP ever do for me?
Well they are the only party who are not controlled by Westminster elite and who always put Scotland First.
Well that’s the only thing!
There was Free Hospital Car Parking, Free Prescriptions, and they
stop the A & E dept closures that Labour had announced!
Yeh but nothing else!
If you don’t count the Free Tuition Fees that Saved me, a low paid worker £27,000.
Well when will they do anything for me?
You drive quite a bit so you no longer pay Toll fees on our bridges!
But when will all this do some good?
They stopped the Bedroom Tax that Red & Blue Tories introduced and supported as 81% of those negatively affected were registered disabled!
What about corruption?
You have me there! When it comes to expenses fiddles, £5,000 letters of introduction. £60,000 per annum part time jobs,
pedophile cover ups, SNP just don’t have a track record.
My pennyworth for what it’s worth –
All posts by the Rev have been amusing of late – let’s stay on topic for the next few days, ignore those who would derail or if that is difficult, suggest they engage on a previous post.
Constructive criticism is to be welcomed and there are some who do – I’m sure if they are genuine they will remain on topic as well.
I promise I won’t make any cheap jibes or smutty references either xx
Hi liz g.
Re: Outlander.
See my post in ‘off-topic’, at 9.34pm last night.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-22/#comment-2000621
I have successfully downloaded 11 episodes – and episode 11 was only aired last weekend.
@Cadogan Enright
Some more links for you.
http://election2015.ifs.org.uk/public-spending
https://archive.today/tpx6n Friday 20th March
IFS challenges Osborne over £12bn welfare spending cuts
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/apr/ifs-predict-scottish-deficit-fall-half
Back to the original topic – vile demonisation of Nicola/SNP by the establishment press – I think we can expect this to continue, maybe even increase to blitzkrieg level, until the actual day of voting. All they had to resort to was character assassination; it hasn’t worked, but they have nowhere else to turn, so they will hope that saturation of lies over an extended period will begin to look like fact.
So the establishment are going to focus on a Scotland v England situation ( which it isn’t )to pull voters in England over to the tories, so SNP won’t be involved in government. They will fear that any success, or even positive publicity for SNP will galvanize other parties outwith the accepted ones.
I bet they now wish they hadn’t rigged the postal vote now!
@ Stoker and YESGUY
Kiss and make up, I love you both.
Apart from the pink beret I had great difficulty in getting Mr Salmond to accept fashion advice – fortunately that has not been the case with Ms Sturgeon.
Yoda
You also have to factor in the fact that SNP led govt decided to buy several hospitals out of their PFI contracts because those costs were crippling them. Buying out the contracts doesn’t come cheap but in the next 30 years will allow them to function normally without running up a deficit as a number of PFI hospitals in England are.
They’ve also built a new hospital in Glasgow, health centre in Glenrothes, persuaded many hospitals to cancel parking charges-the list goes on. All of this costs money which comes out of the health budget. If they weren’t doing any of this, you might have cause for complaint. They are not just providing the nurses, doctors & services they are also investing in the health infrastructure.
John H
Funny you should ask that. I had a team meeting with my staff today. At the end of it I asked what they thought of the monstering. One of my staff is a Labour councillor & they’ve been told they have to do at least 4 canvass sessions a week. They’ve been given the line ‘Vote SNP get tories’. Well, I just burst out laughing & then went on to explain how the tories have labour in a trap that they can’t get out of & also explained why the majority of Scots would never vote in tories. He is now rather more enlightened than he was before the meeting.
Others said they’d seen the Nicola stuff in the press & thought the papers & tv were making most of it up. 2 out of 10 watched the debates & went online trying to find out if they could vote SNP.
5 out of 10 say they can’t vote for anyone with confidence. 4 of those aren’t bothering to vote-1 said he could never forgive himself if he voted for a party that turned out to be worse than Cameron’s been (he’s an ex communist).
The remaining 2 said they’d seen it all & just thought Scotland was too far away to affect them but neither was leaning left or right in this election.So only the councillor was certain which way he was voting out of 10.
All live & work in central London in the borough of Tower Hamlets-lately known for being put into Special Measures by Pickles due to the actions of the elected Mayor Rahman so they are used to accusations like vote-rigging surfacing at election time.None of them could be called naive when it comes to voting.
Yoda says:
21 April, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Less austerity = More debt
More austerity = Less debt
Simples.
“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
H. L. Mencken
That is one of those 🙂
Brian Doonthetoon @ 8.06pm
Hi Brian thank you very much but my daughter has Amazon prime so I at least can view it.
Well done for getting it out there though,the thought that are trying to hold it back because we are going to be influenced by a TV show,to decide our future really bug’s me.
I hate censorship in all it’s forms.
@JLT
Very eloquently put JLT.
@sensible dave/yoda/colin rippey (whichever of you is currently on shift, or all of you if you are being paid overtime)
Reasons 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 to vote for the SNP and independence:
Leanne Chambers, 30. Suffered depression for many years which took a turn for the worse when she was called in for a WCA. Leanne committed suicide soon after.
The Chronicle, 5 August 2010
Karen Sherlock, 44. Multiple health issues. Found fit for work by Atos and denied benefits. Fought a long battle to get placed into the support group of ESA. Karen died the following month of a heart attack.
The Express, 17 Jun 2012
Carl Payne, 42. Fears of losing his lifeline benefits due to welfare reform led this Father of two to take his own life.
The Cumberland News and Star, 19 June 2012
Edward Jacques, 47 years old and suffering from HIV and Hepatitis C. Edward had a history of severe depression and self-harm. He took a fatal overdose after Atos found him fit for work and stopped his benefits.
The Nottingham Post, 9 October 2013
Linda Wootton, 49 years old. A double heart and lung transplant patient. Died just nine days after the government found her fit for work, their refusal letter arriving as she lay desperately ill in her hospital bed.
The Mirror, 26 May 2013
I can keep this up longer than you can, guys. And you know what? Everyone on here despises you. Go away and do something that actually helps another person.
And the means-based system to determine who is and isn’t eligible means hundreds of man-hours and administration costs, as we already see in England & Wales. It really is cheaper just to make all prescriptions free, even if it means those who can pay for it don’t.
But more importantly than even the cost is the idea that people shouldn’t have to pay for basic needs like medicines and healthcare above and beyond what they already contribute to society, which is what free prescriptions, tuition, school meals and so forth is about.
It’s fine if you don’t agree with that sentiment, but your (and other countries’) alternatives are more costly and time-intensive than what’s happening right now.
I’m in the same boat, Valerie: I’m on a whole bunch of medicines. One in particular is very expensive not because of scarcity or any sort of difficulty in preparation, but because the US-based pharmaceutical company has the recipe, and so can charge more as a result. I’d have to pay £27 every two weeks for that medicine alone, for no reason other than the pharmaceutical company’s pure greed. Even if it was only a token £5 per prescription, it’d mount up, and I’d be in a lot worse shape than I am now.
I saw the interview. Twitter was alive with people exalting the “car crash,” Swinney was “a rabbit caught in headlights,” the SNP economic case was in “tatters,” apparently. What I saw was a blundering old fool who skimmed a few statistics in isolation and proclaimed himself an expert on Scottish finances, who didn’t even have the good grace to let the man he’s interviewing finish speaking when he doesn’t like the answer he gets.
It was the same with that Stewart Hosie interview: Neil came at the interview with such wilful ignorance – indeed, apathy – to wider considerations like, you know, how much money the Scottish government actually gets to spend possibly contributing to the Scottish government’s spending decisions, that I’m amazed Swinney managed to answer at all.
It’s a mixture of Truthiness and the Chewbacca Defense: come at someone with a situation that sounds plausible, then speak total nonsense with such sincerity and outrage, that you must reason you can’t understand it only because you don’t know yourself. Swinney knew, and he was so startled by such nonsense that it’s understandable he stammered.
It wasn’t Swinney’s best performance and I do think he could’ve handled it a lot better, but if anything crashed in that interview it was Neil.
The other saving for ‘free’ prescriptions is preventative and longer term.
Antibiotic resistant strains of TB started to emerge in the USA because people stopped taking medication when they ‘felt well’ because it was expensive.
At 8 quid an item it soon mounts up if you have 3 or 4 items at a time.
So the tempatation would be to skip something ‘less important’.
ie. Lansaprazole is prescribed to protect the stomach from damage by other medications. As it has no direct effect on the condition being treated it would likely be the item to skip. So further on the health service has to treat stomach ulcers. Rather more expensive than supplying Lansaprazole.
Anyway, better off people generally pay more tax so why should they have to pay twice?
@dakk
Because up until now the people of Scotland have not voted for FFA or FFR. Do you really think that the SNP line on “it’ll take years to implement” is credible?
Think about this, if Scotland had voted Yes we’d be one year away from independence, how could full independence have been implemented in 18 months but FFR has to take years?
It’s because the current SNP leadership realise the economic situation is precarious and needs to improve before Scotland can go it alone.
@Natasha
Okay, I’ll stop discussing the economic situation in Scotland. If you want to ignore the economic reality that Scotland would find itself in under FFR then that’s up to you.
Is anyone else the same? I read Yoda’s first effort and skipped the rest?
@colin rippey
Ah, still here; must be raking in the overtime. I notice one of your pals is over on another thread; division of labour, is it?
Here’s some more economic reality for you: reasons 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16. REAL people who REALLY died in misery and starvation. But then that’s the economic reality you want to hold on to, so I expect you’ll be pleased that they’re no longer sponging off the state, as you would no doubt see it.
Steven Cawthra, 55. His benefits stopped by the DWP and with rising debts, he saw suicide as the only way out of a desperate situation.
Telegraph & Argus 20 April 2010
Elenore Tatton, 39 years old. Died of a brain tumour just weeks after the government found her fit for work.
Daily Record 22 July 2013
John Walker, 57, saddled with debt because of the bedroom tax, John took his own life.
Wigan Today 15 August 2013
Brian McArdle, 57 years old. Suffered a fatal heart attack the day after his disability benefits were stopped.
Daily Record 1 Nov 2012
Stephen Hill, 53. Died of a heart attack one month after being found fit for work, even though he was waiting for major heart surgery.
Derbyshire Times 10 Feb 2012
Jacqueline Harris, 53. A former Nurse who could hardly walk was found fit for work by Atos and her benefits withdrawn. in desperation, she took her own life.
The Mirror 26 Nov 2013
Plenty more examples to come.
Deary me money money money. Scotland would be in no worse a position than it currently is in the UK. If FFA was put in place next year. Scotland would not be following current spending plans of the UK for a start.
Scotland would benefit from the geographic share of oil revenues. We currently get none of these. Only a fool would believe that oil is not going to be back up in a year’s time. It’s happened time and time again. Oil is an absolute benefit to an independent Scotland.
The figures being quoted are guesses and do not allow for year on year growth or changes. The fact that Scotland has a defect is normal.
How Scotland deals with that can only happen with independence or FFA.
@Big Jock
Care to go into any detail? I only look at the Scottish Government’s own published figures, the most recent of which is for 2013-2014 when oil was over $100 a barrel and Scotland had a deficit of £12 billion and a deficit gap of £3.8 billion.
For 2014-2015 we’ll find out the figures next year, but given that oil was down under $100 a barrel it’s pretty likely that Scotland’s position will be worse than what it was for 2013-2014.
@Natasha
Not sure when I’ve ever implied that people who find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to rely on state benefits are spongers.
Social protection is Scotland’s biggest expenditure, under FFR there wouldn’t be as much money to spend, every area would be under pressure.
@colin rippey
You’re not convincing anybody on here, because we know the financial arguments already; that’s why we believe what we do.
All you demonstrate is your ignorance (which is one of the four reasons why people voted no – the other three were fear, selfishness and bigotry).
Reasons 17, 18 and 19; REAL people, remember, who were murdered by the state which inflicts on its citizens the economic REALITY which you espouse.
David Barr, 28. Suffering from severe mental difficulties. Threw himself from a bridge after being found fit for work by Atos and failing his appeal.
Daily Record, 22 Sep 2013
David Groves, 56. Died of a heart attack the night before taking his work capability assessment. His widow claimed that it was the stress that killed him.
The Mirror 22 May 2011
Nicholas Peter Barker, 51. Shot himself after being told his benefits were being stopped. He was unable to work after a brain haemorrhage left him paralysed down one side.
Gazette & Herald 17 April 2013
Would you care to make any comments to the relatives of these people? Perhaps justifying the economic REALITY which killed them?
@ rollin sissy – late night doll and my sister Natasha is on duty – I would suggest nitey nite time.
Colin you are speculating. Its academic until it happens.If Scotland stays in the UK and follows the current pattern. You might be correct! But that’s a self defeating synopsis. You are saying things will get worse if we stay in the current model.Why would you not want to change it and try something better?
However economics is not even nearly an exact science. The spending and growth would be different if FFA was in place. The other thing is. You haven’t a clue what price oil will be in 6 months time and nor do I.
Three things about FFA are
1) If Scotland can put it’s books in order then the notion that we couldn’t thrive on our own is out the window.
2) As we’d still be using Sterling a case would be made for a position on the board so all the mechanisms needed for a currency union post independence would be in place.
3) And this is the big one, whilst the UK would be responsible for Foreign relations and defense it’s obvious that Scotland would have to have some input into the direction they take, if only as a junior partner. Defense is obviously one are where we would not be willing to write a blank check. As the recommended NATO commitment is 2% of GDP it’d be entirely appropriate for Hollyrood to set that as our contribution. If that isn’t enough for Westminster to fund adequate levels of conventional forces and a nuclear deterrent then they really need to pick one.
Colin Ripley. 10.14
Westminster could honor it’s vow of Devo Max as promised.SNP are asking for FFA to be given to Scotland and you still can’t answer why they won’t countenance it,whether it’s in one year or over a number of years.
Westminster would love to crush the SNP,it also would like to put the idea of independence to bed for as long as it suits it.
So what better way than grant FFA,see the SNP fail/struggle to cover the deficit that you say exists without UK financing,and then step in with the balance,and say told you so,now no more of this nonsense.
Or alternatively they could just save the £7.6 b a year and reduce their precious deficit.
They would jump at the chance if it suited them.
The fact is that Scotland has balanced its budget every year
The fact is that the UK has run a deficit every year.
Stoker.
That was an angry post. If you want to point out about the papers or sites fine. Most of is clickbait anywho.
YES voters and SNP buy the record and like for other reasons than politics. Sport mosty. If theres a mass boycott fine but we need to use whats available . Most of the info on here comes straight from the pages of the rags.
And i don’t get the troll baiting thing . Can you explain ?
Hi Paula Rose xx
Yoda the Imploder! lol
Wasn’t that Smurph’s nickname?
The themes are similar-just lie and back it with a Lie.
How wonderful Tory John Major?????
This was on his shift and his wisdom cost the UK £Billions
In politics and economics, Black Wednesday refers to 16 September 1992 when the British Conservative government was forced to withdraw the pound sterling from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) after it was unable to keep the pound above its agreed lower limit in the ERM. George Soros, the most high profile of the currency market investors, made over 1 billion GBP[1] profit by short selling sterling.
In 1997 the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion,[citation needed] with other sources giving estimates as high as £27 billion. In 2005 documents released under the Freedom of Information Act revealed that the actual cost may have been £3.3 billion.[2]
Who would listen to a man who made such a monumental cock-up, and on the topic, slept with Edwina Curry while sober?
Hey Yoda, your application to 77 Brigade has been rejected but SNPout have some 0 hour contracts available if you hurry. Good luck
I dunno why you bother replying to a troll….I know I did, but I didn’t realise it was a troll.
They feed off your replies and like to wind up people.
Ignore
Colin Ripley. 10.14
One more thing.
The fact that Scotland hasn’t voted for the Smith Commission’s powers is not worrying Westminster from granting them so your point about FFA not having been voted for by Scottish people is bogus.
They could move to implement FFA in a similar way if they had the will.
You are just making it up as you go along to suit your argument.
@Natasha
You previously stated I considered benefit recipients as spongers, now you’ve ramped it up to tell me that I am either ignorant, fearful, selfish or bigoted. Based on what?
This was about economics, Scotland’s current economic situation is not that good and a move towards FFR could make it worse. You keep bringing up the consequences of the Tories social protection policies, I am not arguing for the Tories, no one in Scotland is.
Social protection is an expenditure, a different economic policy can ease the pressure on social protection expenditure.
Maybe if you argue for say an increase in the minimum wage so that people are lifted out of benefits thus decreasing that part of social protection expenditure and therefore easing the pressure on the parts of social protection expenditure.
Maybe the needs of the most vulnerable people could be met with the freed up expenditure, if you come back with this you might have a constructive point.
Instead you list the names of people who have suffered tragedies due to the Tories policies, and you then tell me that my challenge to the SNP’s position on FFR is to blame!
Anyone arguing against the SNP’s position is to blame for the deaths of people. Quite a leap you’ve made.
@Big Jock
I agree that there is definitely scope for changes to how Scotland’s economy works, but pretending that the deficit gap can be easily bridged needs some sort of ideas and solid numbers around it – all we have at the moment is “I hope the oil price goes back up”.
@orri
3) And this is the big one, whilst the UK would be responsible for Foreign relations and defense it’s obvious that Scotland would have to have some input into the direction they take, if only as a junior partner. Defense is obviously one are where we would not be willing to write a blank check. As the recommended NATO commitment is 2% of GDP it’d be entirely appropriate for Hollyrood to set that as our contribution. If that isn’t enough for Westminster to fund adequate levels of conventional forces and a nuclear deterrent then they really need to pick one.
How much do you think this would save from Scotland’s expenditure? The current GERS figures apportion a share of defence spending at the moment that is virtually 2% of GDP.
@dakk
The name’s Rippey, I’m “not that talented”!
If the Tories get back in I think we might see an acceleration of “give Scotland as much autonomy as possible”. In fact if Labour were to somehow get back in and not require the votes of any SNP MPs to prop them up I think they would do the same thing. Let’s face it, Labour are effectively gone in Scotland now so why would they care?
All I’m making up is the figures I have in front of me as published by the Scottish Government themselves.
@Fiona
The fact is that Scotland has balanced its budget every year
The fact is that the UK has run a deficit every year.
You seem to have altered your position from (what was it) just a few days ago when your argument was that Scotland’s deficit and the UK’s deficit were almost the same. Now you’ve accelerated past this onto Scotland has no deficit (or do you mean something different by your fact of Scotland balancing the budget).
Lollysmum 8.50.
Thanks for the detailed answer Lollysmum, I’ve just seen it this morning. Very interesting that some people down there would like to vote SNP. 🙂
I don’t think we need to pour over figures to see what is going on in the UK. The truth can be illustrated in one graph. It’s a basket case of an economy. The debt is scandalous:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/UK_National_Debt.svg/780px-UK_National_Debt.svg.png
Colin Rippey. 9.49
Your argument of why Westminster won’t grant FFA is about as honest as Mr Ripley.
We all know Westminster will never allow financial power to be decentralized.They are afraid of competition and losing access to the assets and resources of Scotland.
It will have to be’ rippeyd’ from them as they kick and scream as they are currently doing.
I’ll be watching my back now lest you try cave my skull in with an oar 🙂
Colin Rippey 9.49
Forgot to say you even admit to making up the Scottish Governments figures in front of you in your post at 9.49.
Mr Ripley right enough lol 🙂
Dakk – Here is the irony.
The projected figures show Scotland in the UK getting deeper and deeper into the red by 2020. They are doing our job for us these unionists. Why would we want to stay in the UK if that’s where Scotland might end up in the UK.
Waht they are saying is. Look Scotland you are skint and in a real mess. However if you leave we think you will be even skinter. It’s like asking someone if they would rather walk through an endless road of barbed wire bare foot with their master. Or take another path on their own ,which may or may not have barbed wire.
I know which one I would choose.
The phrase should be changed from Better Together to Basket Cases Together.
Finally the forecasts are studies in academia. They assume nothing changes in 5 years. This is a deliberate ploy to create a black picture.
@dakk
@Big Jock
the Scottish Government figures are not projections, they are what has happened in the past with the most recent reported on 2013-2014. As I have said I use these figures.
The IFS projections on the other hand are highly speculative and are based on the UK eliminating a £97 billion deficit in little over 5 years – quite a tall order and will imply that there will be huge cuts all across the UK including Scotland.
The irony of the IFS figures is that it makes Scotland’s projected future deficit seem manageable, the deficit will fall from over 8% of GDP to 4.6% GDP. But this would be off the back of the Tory planned cuts – not something that Labour (if they’re honest) and the SNP will implement in any shape or form.
So what you’re left with is speculation on what the economic position will be, and from the most recent figures published by the Scottish Government for 2013-2014 (when oil was over $100 a barrel) we see that Scotland had a deficit gap with the UK of 2.5% that equates to £3.8 billion.
For 2014-2015 (the year just ended) we won’t know the figures until March 2016 but waiting ’til then won’t change the fact that the apportioned oil revenue will be down by several billion and therefore exacerbate the deficit gap.
This is the reality, this is where Scotland currently is.
It was the latest project fear figures I was talking about if Scotland had FFS:”Scotland’s shortfall or “fiscal gap” would therefore rise from £7.6bn in 2015/16 to £9.7bn in 2019/20 according to the IFS.”
These seem to be fantasy figures based on nothing changing, yet Scotland having FFA. Why would nothing change if Scotland had FFA. They assume current UK spending patterns. Yet paint a picture of Scotland being worse off makig it’s own decisions.
It’s totally confusing and deliberately so. They want to paint a picture of a falling defecit within the UK without FFA and a rising defecit within the UK but with FFA. At the moment Scotland gathers none of it’s geographic oil revenues. That’s collected by Whitehall!
Why would Scotland be worse off with oil revenues, no matter how low the price, than without. The figures are just total subjection and have no credibility whatsoever. The truth is they don’t know what FFA spending plans would be.
Colin Rippey 2.56
2013/14 ,that was the year there was billions more in oil companies capital spending off set against the tax/levy returned to the Treasury.,so for the first time in over 30 years Scotland’s deficit would be slightly larger than UK (according to HMTreasury).
I recall UK gov issued new licenses and incentives to encourage this extra capital investment.
All good and well,and the fact that Scotland was having a referendum in 2014 was purely coincidental.
We know all the tricks UK gov get up to in manipulating the figures to make us look like paupers .
Mr Ripley doesn’t have a look in against you guys in the integrity stakes,good role model for you though.
@dakk
The GERS report for 2012-2013 that was released in March 2014 had a huge swing in it from the previous year (you know, the 2011-2012 GERS report that was so widely quoted in the SNP Whitepaper that showed Scotland had a surplus gap against the UK).
When pressed to explain why the GERS report for 2012-2013 was so different from 2011-2012 the SNP claimed this was due to capital investment by the oil companies. The 2012-2013 GERS report had Scotland with a £14 billion deficit and a deficit gap of around 2.5% – almost the exact same deficit gap for the 2013-2014 (£12 billion deficit due to spending cuts offset by oil revenue fall and a gap of 2.5% of GDP).
So you could be right, the GERS report for 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 could have used the same accounting tricks, 2 years in a row.
But these reports are produced by the Scottish Government themselves, if you don’t believe what they produce I’m not sure what you’d believe.
Colin Rippey 6.14
You know fine well the Scottish Government does not have the power to issue licenses and influence the revenue streams from North Sea oil which affect Scotland’s deficit.
The UK Gov does, and these powers were used to create the effect it desired.
Whatever reports or numbers come out after the initial fiscal manoeuver will be of secondary importance,and open to different interpretation-by both governments granted.
Fiona, the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) proves you wrong.
Total Public Sector Revenue 2013-14:
Scottish onshore revenue was estimated as £50.0 billion (8.1 per cent of UK onshore revenue). This represents £9,400 per person, £300 less than the UK average;
Including a population share of North Sea revenue, the estimate is £50.4 billion (8.1 per cent of UK). This represents £9,400 per person, £300 less than the UK average.
Including an illustrative geographic share of North Sea revenue, total public sector revenue is estimated at £54.0 billion (8.6 per cent of UK public sector revenue). This represents £10,100 per person, £400 more than the UK average.
Total Public Sector Expenditure 2013-14
Total expenditure for the benefit of Scotland by the Scottish Government, UK Government, and all other parts of the public sector was £66.4 billion. This is equivalent to 9.2 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure, and £12,500 per head = £2,400 more spent than raised.
Current Budget Balance 2013-14
This is the difference between current revenue and current expenditure (i.e. excluding capital investment). The current budget balance:
Excluding North Sea revenue, was a deficit of £13.8 billion (10.3 per cent of GDP).
Including a population share of North Sea revenue, was a deficit of £13.4 billion (9.8 per cent of GDP).
Including an illustrative geographic share of North Sea revenue, was a deficit of £9.8 billion (6.4 per cent of GDP).