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Wings Over Scotland


Posted on January 02, 1968 by

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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    39864 to “Off-topic”

    1. Thepnr says:

      Looking for some light relief? Me too, this is alright but there is better. Your turn.

    2. Ian Brotherhood says:

      How’s this for a send-off?

      ‘Thousand of students perform haka for beloved teacher’ –

    3. Wuffing Dug says:

      Test – tried to put up some links earlier but post hasn’t appeared.

    4. Thepnr says:

      @Wuffing Dug

      Hi Mr Dug, if any were Yewchoob links try taking off everything before www.

    5. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Not your fault but that was too much for me. I both love you and hate you for inviting me to watch that.

      Still, I’m glad I did.

    6. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Sorry man. Didn’t intend to upset anyone.

    7. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Did anyone else notice today, on the BBC Remembrance Day coverage, that a number of the royals had ‘Scottish’ poppies?

    8. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Thepnr 9.35

      Cheers, wasn’t yewchoob links but Aberdeen bars for consideration r.e. proposed Wings night in the Granite City.

    9. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is a bit cheerier – stretcher-bearer chaos:

    10. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Hey, not to worry, each of us has their own wee foibles and there is no way that you could know them all. It was a GREAT video and now that I’ve stopped greeting (for personal reasons) I loved it, everyone on Wings should watch it!

      Cheers Ian.

      @Wuffing Dug

      I’d be up for that, you do the leg work and I’m sure a few will make it along. I’m really happy to see this sort of thing continue. Ian Brotherhood started it by the way lol.

      I would to see a few from the Aberdeen area there, they know who they are. The balls in your court now, just give us the time and place.

    11. Ian Brotherhood says:

      More stretcher-bearer shenanigans…

    12. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Paula, Ronnie, X-Sticks & Thepnr

      Here are a few options for Aberdeen, I’ve been to these places – there’s a lot more on offer but don’t go out much any more :(.

      As for time, we can sort that out once we know it’s a goer.
      I’m good for pretty much any Fri or Sat night, having recently become a ‘lone wolf’ again :).

      My fave – a bit wee though

      Kind of same

      More nobby

      Beer lovers


      Still can’t get links to work….

    13. Paula Rose says:

      *crosses names off Christmas card list*

    14. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Paula, Ronnie, X-Sticks & Thepnr

      Site is no liking my links so you will have to google I’m afraid.

      Here are a few options for Aberdeen, I’ve been to these places – there’s a lot more on offer but don’t go out much any more :(.

      As for time, we can sort that out once we know it’s a goer.

      I’m good for pretty much any Fri or Sat night, having recently become a ‘lone wolf’ again :).

      My fave – a bit wee though

      Kind of same

      More nobby

      Beer lovers


    15. Thepnr says:

      @Wuffing Dug

      Hmmm. Your favorite, Blackfriars I know that pub very well, on the corner of Union St. and King St.

      It is a VERY good choice for a Wings night out, however I would suggest that if you want it for a Fri or Sat might be an idea just to book it for a night of your choosing.

      In saying that. we don’t need to and eventually we get the seats, pretty small venue though and might be worth asking about reserving the back room for a Fri or Sat.

      Get in there anyway Mr Dug, this is a goer and a first for Aberdeen 🙂

    16. Thepnr says:

      So I ask myself, just why is it New Zealand are the rugby World Champions? They are too wee, even too poor and stupid?

      Yet, New Zealand is strongest on Personal Rights in the world, became nuclear free decades ago and told the West where to stick their Nukes.

      Can you see the pride of those paying tribute to their teacher in the video above? Yes, it’s a sad occasion but their respect and pride is immeasurable.

      That is both for their teacher and wee country. I feel like that.

    17. Michael McCabe says:

      I was hoping to go to court to see Carmichael the liar in the Flesh on Monday. Just found out at Midnight that I cant make it. So I have the Midnight Blues. Hope you don’t mind if I Share. Will be at the Court on Tuesday Though.

    18. Chic McGregor says:

      @#!!!$&## weird #@*$# weather here in Kirrie. Rained for the past 5 days and I need to get my garden wall mortar coated for plastering. The weird bit is the past 4 nights walking the dog it has been clear with all the stars showing and I’m thinking good I’ll get out there tomorrow but no chance. Sun popped out today but by the time I had m ladders and cement mixer ready it had started raining again. Grrrr!

    19. cearc says:

      Ronnie A.

      Sorry to hear that you didn’t make it to Edinburgh today. I hope you are well?

    20. Ronnie says:

      @ Wuffing Dug, Thepnr.

      re- Aiberdeen Wings Nicht.

      I only know Blackfriars (sad, or what?).

      But, yeah, good central location, good range of beer.

      I’m ok for any night – aul age has some advantages!

      Any more interested parties?

    21. Wuffing Dug says:

      @All up for W.O. Aberdeen

      I’ll get in contact with Blackfriars just in case and report back.


      Best pub in Aberdeen I reckon, a lot of the others are all a bit soulless.


      Weather forecasters also made a royal erse of it on Saturday, headed out on the mountain bike to meet up with a few like minded individuals.

      Decided to ride the bike to the meet instead of being lazy and putting it on the car, ended up getting soaked, battered by the wind and covered in gritty, sandy mud. Canned it after a hour and headed home.

      It was right cold too, hands got frozen and I could hardly put the brakes on.

      Apparently Sat morning was meant to be dry up here….

      Good luck with yer wa’

      BTW knew that bloody post would appear twice.

    22. Paula Rose says:

      Aberdeen? – need to wear my fur-lined boots so no high-heels, will definitely come as long as I’m not the only one.

    23. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi cearc.

      Ronnie had…

    24. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      You typed,

      “…as long as I’m not the only one.”

      No, you’re not the only one. Peter Perrett was, with a wee bit of help from Pauline Murray.

    25. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Wuffing Dug.

      All you can do is the same as for every other Wings get-together.

      Define the date (Saturdays are better, from a work point of view) and the time (usually 7pm onwards), spread the word on social media, be there to receive guests, and enjoy the night.

      Hope that helps…


    26. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Wuffing Dug.

      And, of course, the venue.


    27. Paula Rose says:

      Not the only band I met that realised they were not up for the big time.

    28. Paula Rose says:

      (being very carful about spelling tonight)

    29. CameronB Brodie says:

      This one going out to BBC Labour in Scotland and associated commentariat. Beware of monsters from the Id.

      The Centuries – 4th Dimension

    30. Wuffing Dug says:

      @All for W.O. Aberdeen


      Just off the phone to Blackfriars it’s looking good – can even get us tables if anybody peckish on the night, they are even clear of bookings next couple of weeks (ATM).

      Saturday nights do get busy in there though.

      How does Sat 21st sound? 7pm?
      Once it’s sounded out on here will get back to them.

      Does that mean ah huv tae go on Facebook?
      Have been resisting up till now but local SNP group are twisting my arm as that’s their main means of information sharing.

      My dugs have their own Twitter account though….
      Their owner is known to make an appearance on it here and there :).

    31. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Wuffing Dug.

      There are others on Facebook who can spread the word, if you don’t want to dip your toe into the Facebook water.

      However, the 21st (November?) is a tad short notice. Me and Pete already have a potential ‘nicht oot’ that night. In the past, the minimum notice has usually been around 6 weeks, to allow peeps to plan.

      Maybe sometime December would work? Give people time to plan AND create a ‘Wings Over Christmas’ party?

    32. Wuffing Dug says:


      Already had a discussion with Blackfriars about December, it’s going to get tight then with other peoples Christmas bookings.

      Bit of ‘mission creep’ here – it’s gone from a meet up to a Christmas party already!

      The dugs and me have joined facebook noo so we can talk to our local SNP branch.

    33. Ronnie says:

      @ Wuffing Dug

      As before, I’d be up for 21st.

      Only went on Facebook during Yes campaign for dates, places and times of meetings and stalls.

      Now deactivated.

      If there’s a push for a later date, we could have a ‘dry’ run?

      Badjee lookin’ fur a good home…

    34. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Wuffing Dug.

      Have you thought about Wetherspoon? Glasgow has had a number (4?) of get-togethers in The Counting house; Dundee has had one, in Jolly’s in Broughty Ferry, as has Edinburgh, in the Alexander Graham Bell, in September.

      All we do is gradually take over a corner of the pub…

      I see, from Google, that Aberdeen has a couple of centrally located Wetherspoons…

    35. Ronnie says:

      @ BDTT

      The Archibald Simpson is just across the road from the Blackfriars.

      We could dae baith!

    36. Paula Rose says:

      Another party to clear up after – girls we need to gather.

    37. cearc says:

      – or ruffle?

    38. Finlay says:

      Anyone heard from Nana Smith recently? Her input is missed!

    39. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Bdtt & Ronnie

      I’m up for that, would save hassle, been in the Justice Mill but not in Archibald’s. Justice Mill is big enough, think Archie’s would be too.

      Either would be fine I think – I’ve got a couple of work nights out in December so will check dates.

      Aye, baith sounds good to me!
      Am still up for a ‘pilot’ run – nice one.

      That badge will have a good home here if you are willing to part with it, very much appreciated BTW.

    40. X_Sticks says:


      Nana’s been posting loads of links on the main threads.


      So it’s gone fae I dinna get oot much to LETS GO FOR A PUB CRAWL in aboot 3 posts 😉

      If I can make it I will *of course* be up for some beers in Aberdeen 😀

    41. Paula Rose says:

      Definitely not wearing heels to Aberdeen.

    42. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ronnie.

      ‘The Archibald Simpson’ sounds like the germ of a plan. Peeps could go out for a fag and then nip into the other pub to see what the crack is.

      Aberdeen could, possibly, host the first two venue Wings get-together…

      How decadent!

    43. Paula Rose says:

      I like the sound of Aberdecadent.

    44. Ronnie says:

      Sorry, Paula, but I’m here now.

    45. Ronnie says:

      @ X-Sticks

      Ah, you know me too well.

      (Hides light under a bushel, etc.)

      But ‘crawl’ – wi my knees?

      Na, l’ll need a taxi – baith wyes.

      But I’ve always fancied participating in a ‘duet’.

    46. john king says:

      Ive got to say the story about being detained at an airport due to non payment of the tv licence has put the wind up me, since we’re off on holiday for my birthday to get away from the fact the same day should have been Scotlands independence day, 🙁

      Anyone know if there’s any truth in that story?

    47. Chic McGregor says:

      The crossword page for digital readers is clueless again.

      Same solution as before, download a pdf of the page, ctrl + to zoom in, use Snip to capture and fill in as per usual.

    48. Thepnr says:

      @john king

      Sounds like shite John. Unless there is a warrant out for non payment after a failure to turn up in court. Did you ignore a summons? If not forget it, you have not broken any law.

      So wouldn’t worry, make sure though that you have informed the license people that you have cancelled yours, not just stopped paying else you could get visitors or a (slight) possibility of a summons.

      After cancelling directly with them I got an email saying they would not be in touch again for two years.

      Enjoy your holiday, you’ll be fine.

    49. Chic McGregor says:

      At least it has stopped raining during the day in Kirrie – it’s snowing now.

      Last night walking the dog, yet again clear star filled skys, that has happened every night for 8 days with cloud and rain during daylight ours.

      Beyond weird now.

    50. Ronnie says:


      Is Abigail really a storm – or just ‘a big gale’?

    51. CameronB Brodie says:

      This one going out to Dishface, who also appears to be a fan of extra-judicial murder. Even the Nazis got a trial you psychotic fucker.

      Nanine – Souie baby souie

    52. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Ronnie et al

      Still up for Sat 21st?

      * bump *

    53. Ronnie says:

      @ Wuffing Dog.


      Blackfriars, circa 7 pm?

    54. Wuffing Dug says:


      Nice One 🙂

    55. CameronB Brodie says:

      About time the north got involved. 😉

      Jimmy Dee & his Universals – IF IT WASN’T FOR PRIDE

    56. Paula Rose says:

      My opening track of the night – listen Labour stalwarts…

    57. Kelpie says:

      This week too much sci-fi watching and not enough sleep…

      What I heard the crowd at Wembley chanting today was ‘Maud’Dib, Maud’Dib, Maud’Dib’!

    58. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The ‘Godzilla’ Song…

      Automatic, ‘What’s That Coming Over The Hill?’ –

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hope you don’t mind Paula, here’s one from Allen’s ‘backing band’.

      The Meters – Ain’t No Use

    60. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose

      Continuing your theme of down, here are Status Quo with their only number one from 1975.

      The video though is 38 years later, still the same as 75 lol.

    61. Thepnr says:

      Here’s another “downer” though it lifts me.

      Johnny Cash – I Won’t Back Down

    62. Paula Rose says:

      Can’t get lower than this Babes – the Labour Street blues

    63. Paula Rose says:

      Thepnr Honey – that is always on my mind now whenever I think of you.

    64. Thepnr says:

      Just watch this, you won’t regret it. Promise.

    65. Paula Rose says:

      *looks at Thepnr. flutters eyelids, swoons*

    66. Ian Brotherhood says:

      *Sees Paula Rose swooning at Thepnr. finishes can of Special Brew. passes out.*

    67. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one for you Thepnr.

      Mac Rebennack – Mac’s Boogie

    68. CameronB Brodie says:

      And here’s one for all the Mod hipsters.

      Mac Rebennack – The Point

    69. Paula Rose says:

      Oh no! Ian Honey! *rushes to rescue*

    70. Thepnr says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Thanks for that my friend. That was extraordinary, I’m a naff. not interested in classical music or jazz. Bur hey!

      I think you may just have changed my mind, never heard piano playing like that ever. I listened all the way through and think right now I’ll go and listen again.

      Cheers CBB

    71. Ian Brotherhood says:

      *hears Paula Rose’s heels clattering louder. bolts into garden. hides behind hydrangea. finds forgotten plank of Lambrini.*

    72. Paula Rose says:

      CBB it is mwoah!

    73. Thepnr says:

      Haha Ian I can just picture that, mind boggling!

      OK I’ve calmed down, here’s a wee song from the Quo I played once before, Much, much better than that last one.

      Do you remember this? If so you must be and cnut lol,

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      Aw shucks.

    75. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CameronB Brodie –

      I never ever got used to not-calling you CamB.

      What about this CBB then?

      You okay with that?

      PR seems quite enamoured of it, and you know what she’s like…

      <': (Is that a 'confused' smiley?…I'll hit 'submit' and see how it works out…)

    76. Paula Rose says:

      *nonchalantly puts on a disc – ignores tussle – returns to dishes*

    77. cearc says:

      Whoah, quite a party in here tonight.

    78. Patrician says:

      @Ian try this:


    79. Thepnr says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Well I did go and listen again. Amazing. Ta.

    80. Paula Rose says:

      Cearc honey how lovely to see you – big hug – I heard your voice from out there!

    81. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Whatever is easy, I’m not fussed. I just added the B to Cameron, so I didn’t think folk were slagging me when they were slagging Dave. Paranoid perhaps but then you asked for folk to disclose their identity. So whatever, so long as you don’t start calling me Ron. 🙂

    82. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose

      Hey! Are you at the wind up 🙂

    83. Thepnr says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      This is just for you buddy.

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ha ha. Suppose I asked for that. 😉

    85. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Patrician (11.53) –


      Thank you.

      That’s precisely what I’m after.

      And how, pray tell, am I supposed to do that?


    86. Patrician says:



      💡 follow the link at the bottom of the page but not this one ➡

    87. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Patrician –

      No-one likes a smart-arse, but that was good!


    88. Patrician says:

      Trying, I can never get youtube links to work.

    89. Thepnr says:


      I know I’m a dolt, Ian worked it out but he compiles crosswords and stuff.

      I’m lost so please help me out.

    90. Thepnr says:


      Nice choice for a song.

    91. Patrician says:


      Go to Quarantine and scroll up the page. All will be revealed.

    92. john king says:

      Thepnr @8.57 12/11

      I had a feeling it was nonsense but the prospect of being hauled out of the queue to board,
      like some war movie filled me with the heebie jeebies
      Kinda like this., 🙁

    93. Cadogan Enright says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 13 November, 2015 11:25pm

      Hoping to catch your eye when you’re hereabouts.

      Would you be interested in attending a ‘Friends of WOS’ seminar somewhere in central Scotland, if one is organised, say Easter-ish next year?

      my Facebook is Councillor Cadogan Enright and my email is cadogan [at] enright [dot] ie

      If I was to go then I would need to plan well ahead to clear space in diary and minimise costs.

    94. Swami Backverandah says:

      Not sure if the link will work, but on a sad and difficult day, this brought a smile.

      Whose kid is this?

    95. AuldA says:

      If some still remember me, I just wanted to check in and say I’m fine.
      Maybe I should show up more often, and not just on such occasions.

    96. Paula Rose says:

      Darling! kisses and strokes!

    97. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi AuldA.

      I’m sure I was asking about you at least a month ago; if not on an actual Wings page, then in my mind.

      Get back in here!

      I don’t speak French so all I will offer for the moments is this from Monsieur Google…

      Écosse/Francais – Vive l’alliance la plus ancienne!

    98. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      moments = moment.


    99. AilB says:

      for Glesga Keelie

      Good ideas for a list of Scottish Products.
      But – Thorn needles for 78’s where find?

    100. AuldA says:

      @Paula: how could I ever turn down your cuddles? 🙂 Paula you’re definitely the sweetest Scottish lass I ever “met”.

      @Brian: thanks for your kind words. I feel like having my tail between my legs for going away without any real motive. I failed you (I mean, the WOS people) and I’m really sorry for that because you’re all nice. On the brighter side, I took the opportunity of these months off to polish my English. I hope you’ll notice the difference!

    101. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi AuldA.

      Aye, like yir English wiz bowfin’ afore, iye? We’ll just have to work on your various Scottish dialects now.



    102. AuldA says:

      @Brian: aye sir! Just learnt the word ‘divot’ which, if I reckon correctly, means ‘turf’.
      Something that grows over your braes and in the swards round your crofts. 😉

    103. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi AuldA.

      A’divot’ is that which has to be placed back in situ, after swinging your #9 iron a tad too deeply, or after you have created a depression for your rugby ball, prior to kicking it.

      It does, indeed, consist of turf, but has been detached from the greater whole. Etiquette requires that the divot be put back, from whence it came.

    104. AuldA says:

      @Brian. Yeah I got it was a golf term, and had to do with the mangling of the fairway/green. However, my dictionary misled me into thinking the word derived from a Scottish ancestor meaning ‘wet turf’. Soggy & sodden sod, so to say.

    105. cearc says:

      I’ve also heard of peat pieces (for burning) referred to as divots.

    106. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Welcome back AuldA…kick yer shoes off, have a wee seat and pour yourself a generous dram – you’ve plenty of catching-up to do by the sounds of it. (And we want to know where you’ve been and what you’ve been up to…)


    107. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Jimi Hendrix, ‘The Star Spangled Banner’ (Woodstock, 1969) –

    108. Thepnr says:

      Hey AuldA you have been missed. Glad to have you back and glad to see you announcing your return here on Off Topic.

      I hope you will stick around for a while, voices such as yours are needed more than ever. Anyway, nice to hear from you again.

    109. Thepnr says:


      There was peat in the fields behind Easterhouse, My Uncles Alex and Billy used to dig it up and sell it around the scheme.

      They were called divots.

    110. kendomacaroobar says:

      @ AiIB re 78 needles. check out these guys

    111. cearc says:

      I wasn’t sure how widespread that use of divot was as one also hears just peats or turfs but I tend to say divots.

      Not so many people bother with such a hard task for their fuel these days so it is rarely mentioned at all!

    112. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi AuldA.

      Before I leave the web, to prepare my self/Lidl Jalfrezi…

      The difference between ‘aye’ and ‘iye’.

      ‘Aye’, is usually taken as an affirmative grunt. As in this interchange.

      “It’s fell windy the day, iye?”


      Now, the “aye” can be taken as meaning “Yes”, or “I agree”.

      However, when you look at “iye” (which seems to be a uniquely Dundee utterance, although I stand to be corrected), it is pronounced differently and has a different meaning. “Aye” rhymes with the “i” sound in “eye” (the optical apparatus), or “high”; however, “iye” rhymes with the “i” sound in “tight”, or “right”, or “$hite” and has a different meaning.

      It is usually uttered as meaning “don’t you agree?”, or “Isn’t that so?” In Dundee, it (‘iye’) can be replaced by “ken?”

      Isn’t language wonderful?


    113. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      iye! LOL

    114. Paula Rose says:

      Is that iye as in “quite”?

    115. Michael McCabe says:

      Is that iye as in this

    116. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Aye, Paula Rose.

      “$hite” rhymes with “quite”, iye?


    117. Paula Rose says:

      Just like old times *settles back*

    118. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Now, Mr McCabe, you are comin’ the çün†, uryi no’?

      Come to the front of the class and hud yir wheesht!


    119. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      My self/Lidl Jalfrezi now needs its second bout in the microwave, with rhe added creamed coconut and coriander leaves and I have to fry my nan in butter. The samosas, bhajis and pakoras, in the oven, should be ready, so, I think that’s me for tonight.

      Catch yiz all anon.


    120. Ronnie says:

      @ BDTT, et al, (faivver he is)

      I’ve iye taen ‘iye’ tae mean always, and ‘aye’ tae mean ‘yes’.

      Subtle difference.

      Ony agreement?

      Onywye, is there ony mair cummin tae The Aul Blackfriars, Aiberdeen, on 21 November?

    121. Ronnie says:

      As an aid to my pronunciation, I say ‘iye’ as in ‘ile’ (North Sea, caster or enjin).

      And ‘aye’ as in…


    122. Paula Rose says:

      AuldA – there is a certain amount of naughtiness going on here.

    123. AuldA says:

      @All: thanks for your warm welcome!

      @Paula: I said aye and lo! They’re all n‘aye’t-picking!

    124. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s some music to dig too, for the BBC in Scotland. You’re doing a braw job. 😉

      The Shotgun Express – Curtains

    125. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Hi all

      I would have loved a Wings night out in the Granite City but unfortunately I am already double-booked that night.

      Hope I can make the next one.

    126. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Aberdeen peeps.

      I think you’ve sprung this on us at too short notice, as I think I suggested a week or so ago.

      Pete and I already have a function in place next Saturday in Dundee.

      Why not have a wee Aberdeen Wings conflab, next week, to organise a BIG ‘Wings Over Aberdeen’ for the end of January / start of February?

      As I typed before, the Wings get-togethers are usually set up around 6 weeks before the event, to allow peeps to clear their diaries.

      Give us enough notice and we’ll be there!


    127. cearc says:

      i doubt that i will make it to Aberdeen.

      As I no longer have handy family there it would be an hotel job and I had already rather set my heart on an hydraulic log splitter this month.

      Need a bit more notice really.

    128. X_Sticks says:

      I’d suggest we postpone an Aberdeen get-together until after Xmas as it looks like there would be just three of us able to make it.

      Much as I really like you guys I’d rather wait until more of the mob can make it. It is an expensive night for me as I have to taxi in and out of town if I’m drinking.

      As Brian suggests maybe around the end of Jan or beginning of Feb. It’s usually a quiet time so would give us something to look forward to.

    129. Proud Cybernat says:

      Here’s a much shorter version of the 2015 B4FTA (Before & After) Awards.

      The video is also much snappier and punchier with no annoying commentary from me. I think this version is a lot better so please share.

      The batte for Indy Ref2 has already begun. There are loads of wavering NO voters, devo-max voters who need educated about how London Gvernments operate. This wee video is all part of that on-going education. We have probably 5 or 6 years so let’s use that time constructively. It won’t happen overnight, of course, but if these videos can win over some voters then it all helps.

      Please help spread the new link (above) far ‘n’ wide.

    130. Proud Cybernat says:


      Helps if I actually post the correct video link:

      Please share.

    131. Wuffing Dug says:

      @X Sticks & BDTT

      Was thinking the same thing….

      Would help to chase away the January blues :).
      Will def be there on Sat night though.

      Aff tae sort oot mah avatar, need tae ditch the ‘minecraft’ look.

    132. Thepnr says:

      @Wuffing Dug

      Good luck with the change of avatar. A wee song for you and all those that have yet to learn that Scotland is a nation.

    133. Wuffing Dug says:



      See Gravatar is meant to align your image across multiple sites, don’t want that.

      Might huv tae stick wi’ the blocks.

    134. Paula Rose says:

      Calling all Wingers Wuffing Dog needs nerd advice – don’t worry Dear they’ll be along in a minute, here have a cup of tea.

    135. Michael McCabe says:

      Hope this link works. Somebody put this up on twitter. Labours big day out.

    136. Thepnr says:

      @Michael McCabe

      That’s aah we need, mere litter on the streets.

    137. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ronnie & Wuffing Dog.

      As I typed, there are two routes – we do the well travelled ‘take over a corner of Wetherspoon’s’ or, the other route, like the Clyde Bar (Helensburgh) or Invergowrie Inn (Dundee), where we find a YES friendly bar with a function suite, where we can have the pro-indy videos and facilities for ‘turns’ (like Yew Choob and Cactus/Dixie at Helensburgh).

      It’s up to the local organiser(s). But remember – you should NOT have to pay for a function room if you’re putting bums on seats in a pub.

      Give Wingers enough notice and you could be looking at 40-60 bums on seats for ‘Wings Over Aberdeen’. People need to organise their leisure time… timely…

    138. Paula Rose says:

      BDTT Dear – he wants to know about gravie things, please read the message.

    139. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      Since when were you the ‘off-topic’ police?

      Wie them heels? I think not…


    140. Paula Rose says:

      *polishes truncheon, sips tea, awaits moment… *

    141. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      Truncheon? At least you’re not threatening me with the crotchless balaclava.

      I couldn’t go through that again…

    142. Paula Rose says:


    143. AuldA says:

      It’s “poliCes truncheon”
      Prepares her escutcheon
      Slouches against a stanchion
      Looking at the puncheon.

    144. Michael McCabe says:

      HELP Has anyone got a link for the first series of Outlander ? Cheers in Anticipation. Here is a old Song for Peter.

    145. Thepnr says:

      @Michael McCabe

      Here’s a link, can’t possibly imagine what you need it for.

    146. Ronnie says:

      @ Wuffing Dug

      You’ll need to be carrying a copy of The National, and say ‘You’re Ronnie (the good-lookin’ one) and I claim my Wings badge’.

    147. X_Sticks says:


      Is that the ‘electronic’ truncheon?

    148. Paula Rose says:

      No dear – don’t be naughty you know that is for special duties.

      Have you seen this…

    149. @Michael McCabe

      If the Thepnr link doesn’t work try

    150. AuldA says:

      An electronic truncheon.
      That’s a tazzercheon?

    151. Thepnr says:


      Mine works fine, try it. Then try the link you left, believe me I know you were helping out so not having a dig.

      For me at least the link you provided gives an advert that lasts minutes and it is so bad I wouldn’t want to listen to then end.

      Go try it 🙂

    152. Thepnr says:

      That last song I put on was great in representing the 80’s it was poor in representing reality. Here’e the lead singer talking 25 Years later. My point though is just the same.

      Everybody must learn sometime.

    153. @Thepnr

      That’s interesting as different sites seem to work differently to different people as I don’t get any adverts with Couchtuner yet your link wanted me to register with them before viewing. I wasn’t trying to be awkward just giving another link to the Outlander series for those with similar issues..

    154. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Well, at least, Ronnie will get acquainted with Wuffing Dug next week. I wonder if Tartan Tory will take a wee ride up?

      Two/three heads are greater than one. Looking forward to your organisation of ‘Wings Over Aberdeen’ early next year.

    155. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      ‘’, the site I downloaded all the first series from, seems to have been obliterated.

      So thanks for the other links, in advance of series 2.

    156. Wuffing Dug says:


      Tell you what, I’ll have an Iscot magazine on me – October’s has been read cover to cover and is ready for ‘distribution’.
      Or you could nab it if your not a subscriber.

      If I don’t spot you I’ll just ask one of the patrons, ‘have you seen that rakish Ronnie’ – he’s got a badge fur me 😉

      I’ll be the wan rockin the Bruce Willis look.

    157. Thepnr says:


      Hey I know that, all our computers are different. I use Adblock Plus so mine will react differently from yours dependent on what site we vist.

      I’m sure now though that between the two of us we have found Michael what he needs.

      All the best CH.

    158. Ronnie says:

      @ Wuffing Dug.

      I’ll be the wan wi the Zimmer.

      I reckon the lovely Carol trumps your Bruce.

    159. Ronnie says:

      Oh… and the hair, btw.

    160. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Thepnr and cynicalhighlander The link was for my pal Lynn who is a W O S Lurker to shy to Comment. She is Chuffed with the links and told me to post this song for you Both.

    161. Paula Rose says:

      *waves at Lynn and blows a kiss*

    162. Thepnr says:

      Here’s one for Lynn, you Michael and cynicalHighlander. xxx

    163. Thepnr says:

      Right! That’s enough of that.

      Here’s what I really meant to play for you Michael and Lynn.
      Lots of love and kisses 🙂 You’ll like this,

    164. Michael McCabe says:

      Cheers For that Thepnr. that song takes me back to my youth. Here is a song for you. This will be.

    165. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Here’s the ONE pic I took at Wings Over Edinburgh. A blatant lurker!

    166. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      I hope Lynn forgives you and I hope anyone appearing in the following pics from WOS Edinburgh forgives me too.

    167. Wuffing Dug says:


      Just looked up Carol Willis on Google.

      Take it we are talking Playboy model here – have similar tastes when it comes to the ladies – bravo! 🙂

      She was only 21 when she died, Jesus.

    168. Ronnie says:

      @ Wuffing Dug,

      Cover of Nov iScot.

    169. Wuffing Dug says:

      Wee bit less racy…. 🙂

    170. Thepnr says:

      As if we need to be reminded, but I’ll remind you anyway 🙂

    171. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This was on the radio earlier.

      Some eighties cool catchy stuff!

      Roachford, ‘Cuddly Toy’ –

    172. Ian Brotherhood says:


      As planned, Roachford has cleared the room.

      Now I can put on this cheerful ditty, which, nowadays, I imagine to be about IDS and his gangsters…

      Radiohead, ‘We Suck Young Blood’ (Live)

    173. Wuffing Dug says:

      2nd attempt;

      Used to get my old BMW fixed roon the corner from where he was born.

      Just recently started listening to his stuff.
      Latent memories from years past….

      Night hawks.


    174. cearc says:

      Excellent, Ian!

    175. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just discovered this wee gem.

      Arabesque, ‘Friday Night’ –

    176. CameronB Brodie says:

      FUCK the warmongers!

      Asian Dub Foundation – Take Back The Power

    177. CameronB Brodie says:

      This one going out to DT. 🙂

      Asian Dub Foundation – Burning Fence

    178. CameronB Brodie says:

      How are the markets responding to all this slavering war rhetoric?

      Jackie Mittoo – Wall Street

    179. CameronB Brodie says:

      De-Phazz – Nightmare

      And I’m not describing PTSD.

      The 97-page report by the Nobel Peace Prize-winning doctors’ group is the first to tally up the total number of civilian casualties from US-led counter-terrorism interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

      The PSR report is authored by an interdisciplinary team of leading public health experts, including Dr. Robert Gould, director of health professional outreach and education at the University of California San Francisco Medical Center, and Professor Tim Takaro of the Faculty of Health Sciences at Simon Fraser University.

      Yet it has been almost completely blacked out by the English-language media, despite being the first effort by a world-leading public health organisation to produce a scientifically robust calculation of the number of people killed by the US-UK-led “war on terror”.

    180. Wuffing Dug says:


      You still up for braving the cauld the night?

      Anybody else?

      * bump * * bump *

    181. Stoker says:

      Chris Curtis – Aggravation


      The Searchers – Aggravation

    182. Stoker says:

      RIP Jonah Lomu – A giant and a gentleman – Thanks for the memories.

      Jonah Lomu – The Legend – Tribute

    183. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stoker –

      Great link. Cheers. 🙁 and 🙂

    184. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I’d forgotten Tina Charles was such a powerful wee chanter.

      Tina Charles/5000 Volts, ‘I’m On Fire’ –

    185. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Pure memory-lane stuff.

      Great wee video – they look as if they’re really enjoying themselves.

      Chris Norman & Suzi Quatro, ‘Stumblin’ In’ –

    186. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Never realised how much Tommy Cooper ‘borrowed’ from Chic Murray, but it’s very obvious in this collection of jokes. Still great right enough, but the ‘landlady’ gag at 16 mins is definitely Chic M material.

      Tommy Cooper Jokes –

    187. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      You stimulated my investigative gland with your “I’m On Fire” link.

      I remember seeing 5000 Volts doing that on Top Of The Pops – with a blonde singer! I never knew that it was Tina Charles doing the vocals. The miming vocalist on TOTP was Luan Peters.

      Luan Peters had been a singer since the 60s but was known more as an actress:

      “Peters is known for her appearances in Hammer horror films of the 1970s such as Lust for a Vampire and Twins of Evil. Other film credits include Man of Violence, Freelance, Not Tonight Darling, The Flesh and Blood Show, Vampira, Land of the Minotaur, The Wildcats of St Trinian’s and Pacific Banana.”

      “She was also active on television in series such as: Z-Cars, Public Eye, Doctor Who (in the serials Frontier in Space and The Macra Terror), Target, The Professionals and the Fawlty Towers episode The Psychiatrist playing Raylene Miles, an Australian tourist.
      Her last known television role was in an episode in The Bill in 1990. In 2005 she was interviewed for the documentary Fawlty Towers Revisited.”

      The emboldened info is from:-

      Interesting thing is, although, in the UK, Tina Charles’ contribution was kept undercover, she seems to have performed with 5000 Volts on the continent, hence your video.

      “5000 Volts is the name of a British disco recording act that achieved success throughout Europe during the 1970s. The group consisted of vocalists Tina Charles and Martin Jay, with a changing group of session musicians.”

      (The above info from the 5000 volts Wikipedia page.)

      Tina Charles left the band and launched her solo career in 1976 with “I Love To Love”.

    188. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Onnyhoo, Ian B.

      You’re to blame for the fact that looking into the mid 70s reminded me of the piece of cinematic nonsense that was “Never Too Young To Rock”.

      The title song was released as a single by Scott Fitzgerald, who had a hit with Yvonne Keeley with “Words”, a few years later. “Words” used the melody from Saint-Saen’s Symphony No.3 in C minor (Symphony with organ), as used, most famously, in the film “Babe”.

      Onnyhoo, to get back to “Never Too Young To Rock”. This film featured most of the big ‘glam’ bands from the early/mid 70s, wrapped up in a ridiculous plot. Bands featured included Mud, The Rubettes, Glitter Band (no Gary), Bob Kerr’s Whoopee Band and our own Slik, performing “The Boogiest Band In Town”. (Dig the cool Midge Ure, in the double-breasted suit.)

      Here’s the finale from the film, featuring the assembled company performing “Never Too Young To Rock”. Spot the different bands making up what is probably the biggest ‘rock’ band ever seen, including what looks like five drum kits!

    189. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –


      As it happens, I did recognise the tune, but I’ve never ever seen any of the movie – tbh, I didn’t even know it existed.

      The canned screaming is fantastic. I wonder why Gazza Glitter didn’t appear? Too big an ego for the others to handle perhaps? Anyway, it’s a great bit of footage. Not sure if I’d sit through the whole thing right enough.

      But who’s grumbling? It’s all good.

      Hoots mon!

    190. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      The Glitter Band, in addition to being GG’s backing band, had their own string of hits. (I’ll give you a couple of links at the bottom.)

      They were a decent band – a brass section and TWO drummers. I liked ’em.

      They’re still on the go. Here they are Oldham, earlier this year, showcasing the drummist.

    191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Further on Scott Fitzgerald…

      He never really had a first division solo career but popped up now and again.

      Here he is fronting “The Congregation” in 1971; “Softly Whispering I Love You”.

    192. CameronB Brodie says:

      I told you these guys were like André Rieu, sort of. 🙂

      Asian Dub Foundation – Truth Hides

    193. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one to celebrate the recent management tie-up between BAE and the BBC.

      Circle Jerks – Making the Bombs

      Iraq’s Minister of Human Rights, Wijdan Mikhail Salim, reportedly told the Assabah newspaper that the lawsuit will be based on reports from the Iraqi
      ministries of science and the environment. These reports allege that the U.S. and the U.K. used nearly 2,000 tons of depleted uranium bombs during the early years of the the Iraq war.

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for leaving things on a downer.

      I find it helps if you’re a weirdo. 😉

      The Weirdos – Break On Through

    195. AuldA says:

      Did you ever see Scottish dancers performing in an Austrian decor on a French music?
      (Warning: short & classical)

    196. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ronnie, all that jaw, jaw exercise is called the Bla, Bla, Bla, Cha Cha Cha. 😉

      Titus Turner – Bla, Bla, Bla, Cha Cha Cha (part 1)

    197. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry AuldA, I didn’t mean to talk over you. I posted before refreshing and wasn’t aware you were there.

    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      Morning. The situation in the middle-east must highlight how golden the opportunity spurned. Not simply to shape a post-colonial future for ourselves, but to have the opportunity to do so without bloodshed.

      Change isn’t always voluntary.

      Una Mae Carlisle – There’ll Be Some Changes Made

    199. AuldA says:

      @CameronB Brodie: No offense taken. With the current temperatures, I understand you hesitate to refresh your browser. Keep it warm and snug.

    200. Thepnr says:

      Had enough of politics for one day, I’ll leave this before hitting the sack.

      If you do watch that, then watch the reply to an attempted smear.

      Heard it all before LOL.

    201. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      If you have a liking for 50s rock & roll / doo-wop / ballads, you’ll probably appreciate this:-

    202. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Earlier tonight, going out the door en route to the local Morrison’s for some cans and a rummage in the bargain bin, this song popped into me heid. Haven’t heard it for god only knows how long but I could recall the chorus.

      Halfway round the Morrison’s, wandering aimlessly, it came on the in-store piped sounds.

      What’s that all about?

      Clout, ‘Substitute’ –

    203. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Having applied some lateral thinking to the question I posed above, have come to the conclusion that the tune was probably already in my heid after subconsciously registering it the last time I was in Morrison’s for some cans.

      Which was last evening. 🙂

    204. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      The lead singer in Clout had a great voice.
      Not a lot of people know this but Clout released the first single version of this song (after Russ Ballard’s original), a year before Rainbow.

    205. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Here’s the original…

    206. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –


    207. Patrician says: for a laugh and to see who the real cyber terrorists are. Worth reading the comments too.

      Warning: may contain nuts (and squirrels)

    208. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Where’s Paula Rose?

      That’s a full week with nothing to say or play on O/T?

    209. Patrician says:


      PR is on active on twitter, no doubt ahe will be back soon enough.

    210. cearc says:

      Maybe she’s got a zit and doesn’t want us to see?

    211. CameronB Brodie says:

      A zit? Gawd. Just let me get my devices. 😉

      Chromatics – Looking for Love

    212. AuldA says:

      A zit?
      A zit file?

    213. Paula Rose says:

      Darlings you missed me!


      Thought I’d go back in time to the very first Off-topic page (took me ages to work out how to do that quickly) anyway – I was hooked, read the lot, listened and watched everything and took copious notes.

      I now think I know you better than I know myself – which means that you’re probably all through with me.

      P.Rose xx

    214. Thepnr says:


      I’m sure you have found it by now but just in case, a “zit” is an American term for a “plook”.

    215. Paula Rose says:


      Yes – I’ve also been on twitter – trying to update, anyone know Angra Mainju’s @? Realised I’m missing hers.

    216. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      It turns out that the spelling is actually “plouk”. I know; I had a virtual raised eyebrow also.

      But when you look at the definitions, you’ll find ‘plookiness’, plooky’, ‘plook’ and ‘plooks’ cited. I wonder why they make the main heading ‘plouk’, as opposed to ‘plook’, when the ‘oo’ spelling seems to have been more prevalent?

      AuldA may get a hang on things if we mention “pustule”.

    217. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      Turning back time…

      I did the same with ‘Quarantine’ last year, when I finally got round to exploring it.

      Fascinatin’ stuff!

    218. Paula Rose says:

      Excuse me Dears – strikes another name off the Christmas card list, btw how do you spell doonthetoon?

    219. Paula Rose says:

      * sigh – BDTT back on the list, sexy beau*

    220. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      You have a Christmas card list?

      How bourgeois! And you bidin’ in Brechin an’ a’…

    221. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      I feel we are posting one post behind each other. We’ll have to watch that; nothing worse than a post in the rear…

    222. Paula Rose says:

      *sharpens stake – sings favourite song – pities *

    223. Patrician says:

      @BTTD, you and Paula Rose are a bit like this tonight:

    224. Paula Rose says:

      Patrician honey – I only mention BDTT in the hope that we may get an appearance by Pete the Camera cos he is my hero!

    225. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      I TALKED to Pete The Camera tonight, via the telephonic apparatus. Bet that’s got you leaking…


    226. Paula Rose says:

      I am not talking to BDTT any more – for your information.

    227. David says:

      Nobody does it better than Wingers.
      Carly Simon singing the theme tune for the James Bond film “The Spy Who Loved Me”, ‘Nobody does it better’.

      Beautiful song, great film, and the opening parachute stunt is so good, I can overlook them using a Union Jack parachute!

    228. AuldA says:

      @ThePNR — Zit was part of the big mouthful of words I learnt while I was away, so yes, that one wasn’t a pickle to me (I prefer pickle to Paula’s konundrum that sounds too… Muppetshowical? “—I like the pigs’ steel drums! —What? —THE PIGS’ STEEL DRUMS! —Incredible! They take anything that is not nailed down!”

    229. john king says:

      Does anyone know what’s happened to yesguy, I can’t remember his real name, I haven’t seen a post for him for quite a while,
      I’m a wee bit worried about him.

    230. AuldA says:

      James Bond with Rossignol skis? Yeah! The best!

    231. X_Sticks says:


      “anyone know Angra Mainju’s @?”


    232. Paula Rose says:

      Thanks John – must be the right account, over six and a half thousand followers – good to see that fellow wingers have such influence.

    233. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I have the BBC4 ‘Easy Listening’ programme on just now and Barry Manilow came on.

      I remarked to son that Mr Manilow always reminded me of Toppo Gigio, so I had to explain who Toppo Gigio was, then go exploring on YouTube.

      When I showed him the Toppo Gigio video, while Manilow was still on, he saw what I meant. You too can make up your own minds.

      Toppo Gigio:-

      Barry Manilow:-

    234. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose

      2015 at end of Mr Mainyu name, d’ye think that’s when he signed up?. Anyway, impressive six and a half thousand followers as an “ordinary member of the public”? Maybe that is something to brag about, I’ve got sixty seven LOL.

      My take on this.

    235. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Saw a documentary many years ago about a Barry Manilow fan club somewhere in England, middle-aged ladies, all very nice. They’d have get-togethers in each others houses, play Bazza’s records all night, get pished on sherry and take turns dancing with a life-sized Manilow which they’d KNITTED.

      It was cool.

    236. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Now that was funny, can’t express in words how funny, still laughing. So hoping not to upset the politically correct among us will just say.

      Funny haha 🙂

    237. Ian Brotherhood says:

      William Shatner, ‘Common People’ –

    238. Thepnr says:

      Brilliant ya bastirt LOL.

      Now I’ll need to spend an hour on youtube to usurp your effort LOL.

    239. Patrician says:

      @thepnr, what is your twitter name, let’s see if I can get it to 68, I’ll leave it to Paula Rose to do 69 😈

    240. Thepnr says:


      Simple @Thepnr

      I’ll ignore the 69 reference 🙂

    241. Thepnr says:

      Just checked, I’ve got 68. You, Patrician will be 69 LOL.

    242. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Patrician & Thepnr –


      Nelly, ‘Hot In Here’ –

    243. Patrician says:

      @thepnr, ah well hoist by my own petard or something. 69 it is 😥

      I haven’t been on here much lately, but when did the flag for the Sealand Gazette turn brown?

    244. Thepnr says:

      On a much more serious note this has really pissed me off, read it this morning then went looking again as a response to Ian’s post at 11:10.

      It’s about the child abuse inquiry:

      “That could take 10 years. No one really believes the official estimate, that it could take five.”

      Let’s wait until all those we could prosecute are dead then we an ignore it. The public are IGNORANT why hang our washing out!!

      Swear words do not come close to what I think of these people.

    245. David says:

      Regarding the ongoing child abuse inquiry, I believe it now has its best ever chance of uncovering the truth. Why – because the inquiry chairwoman IS NOT BRITISH.

      She, judge Lowell Goddard, is from New Zealand. She is unlikely to have any links to ‘high-profile’ people here, so she will be immune to any pressure that people in the UK might want to exert on her to cover up some unpleasant facts.

      I really hope she succeeds.

    246. Thepnr says:


      I’m glad that the judge is not from the UK. Only concern is it was she that said it could take 10 years?

      No way, no fucking way could any investigation take this long. It’s already been going on for years. It’s a cover up disguised as a long term investigation so as “they” get to the bottom of it.

      The very “they” that were the perpetrators. Think about Chilcott why hasn’t that been published? It’s all bullshit and these liars are no longer pulling the wool over my eyes.

      I don’t seek revenge. Just the shaming and punishment of the guilty.

    247. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr/David –

      I’m not going into any detail, but my own family has been affected by institutional sexual abuse of children. (I wasn’t one of them.)

      So, if ‘averages’ mean anything at all, it’s a massive issue and we’re nowhere near realising how widespread it is.

      Last week, on BBC Radio Scotland, Kaye Adams had Edwina Currie as a guest.

      The week before, she had Esther Rantzen as a guest.

      You may not feel the need to watch these clips, but I’m putting them in here anyway:

      Edwina Currie, being interviewed on RTE re Saville:

      Esther Rantzen, on ‘This Morning’, re Saville, three years ago:

      Janet Street Porter, on Question Time, three years ago:

    248. X_Sticks says:

      Damn, thought I was following the right Angra Mainyu!

      Sorted now. Thanks John.

      @ThePNR – I’d have given you a follow but I found I already was 😀

    249. Thepnr says:

      Conspiracy theories, well questioning the establishments reporting of events is alright with me.

      Regarding 9/11 though, surely there can be no doubt that two Boeing 767’s first hit the North Tower of the World Trade Center and the second hit the South Tower just under 20 minutes later.

      I watched the events, of course that was real. I was in New York later, in December of that year with my family, a long planned holiday. I was very reluctant to visit that site but did nonetheless.

      Nothing to see only boarding around the entire site. There is no doubt though that both buildings collapsed and were destroyed, they just weren’t there anymore.

      Here’s my point, I’m a structural engineer, I understand steel in particular and there is no doubt in my mind at all that the number of columns removed or damaged by the initial impact seriously weakened the strength of the structure. It MAY have managed to stay up if that was the only destruction.

      However, the eventual collapse was due to the raging fire caused by the explosion of the 767’s fuel tanks. Heat reduces the yield strength of steel. Once a single floors columns failed the impact of the weight of that above that floor crashing on those below was enough for total failure.

      More than enough in fact.

      How does a Blacksmith make a horseshoe? He heats the steel until it is easy to shape. Bend it cold? Nah. Make it hot, easy.

    250. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hello newbies. Might as well start you off in the deeeep end. 🙂

      The Legendary Stardust Cowboy – “Relaxation” & “I Ride a Tractor”

    251. liz g says:

      Thepnr @5.46
      Hi Thepnr glad you brought the subject over here,as it seems to annoy people and is off topic.
      Can I ask what you think happened to building 7.
      I have always wondered about it as I said but not enough to argue over or sit through hours of conspiracy films.

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, I’ll need to remember to refresh.

      Did you know the twin towers were ‘over-engineered’ to withstand impact from aircraft? The architect who designed the buildings claimed each building could possibly tolerate airstrike by two aircraft.

      There was no forensic examination of the crime scene. In fact, the crime scene was unceremoniously cleared of all evidence, with undue haste. I think that might be a Federal Offense but hay ho, extenuating circumstances and all that.

      Wouldn’t this topic be better in Qt? It’s just inviting tit-for-tat conspiracy-theory advocacy. One of them just happens to have official backing and was the instigation for the “War On Terror”.

    253. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @liz g –

      If you haven’t yet seen it, this may be of interest. Pretty concise.

      Since this video was made some very high quality footage of WTC 7 collapsing has emerged.

      The very fact that the official Kean/Hamilton report doesn’t even MENTION WTC 7 speaks volumes – almost as much as Shyam Sunder’s embarrassing inarticulacy when confronted with a simple physics question:

    254. liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 6.42 PM
      Thanks you’re timing is spot on,just poured a Wee hauf and needed something to watch.
      Will go watch it and stop annoying the others.

    255. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @liz g –


      I think I’ll do likewise…

      Here’s a much more recent video by Chandler. Some repetition, but excellent footage of the collapses and some proper analysis which will be of interest to engineers familiar with the terms he’s using.

    256. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B & Thepnr.

      “William Shatner, ‘Common People’”

      I’m guessing, from this, that you have a penchant for unusual musical fusions?
      How about some easy listening/metal?
      Pat Boone – ‘Smoke On The Water’.

      Or there’s his version of ‘It’s a long way to the top (if you want to rock n roll)’.

      Here’s the original, complete with bagpipes.

    257. Thepnr says:

      @liz g

      I have no idea why building 7 collapsed but am just about to watch the videos posted by Ian B.

    258. CameronB Brodie says:

      Cheers Brian.

      L.E.J – Hip-Hop Mashup

    259. Thepnr says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      I’m being a wee bit pedantic here but architects do not “design” any buildings, they draw them. Engineers are the designers who work with the architects plan.

      “the twin towers were ‘over-engineered’ to withstand impact from aircraft?”

      Well that really is a surprise to me, before a design job begins the engineering company will be given a design brief. The brief simply states the parameters that the design is expected to meet most of which is based on published standards.

      For example, an oil rig in the North Sea must be capable of withstanding the “100 year wave”. So you design it to suit.

      If an architect handed an engineering firm a design brief in the 1960’s that included a clause “must tolerate airstrike by two aircraft”. I’d be saying Hmm, do we want this job?

      Seriously Cameron, why not a strike by a meteorite instead of two airplanes? You need to ask yourself that question.

    260. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Just watched “David Chandler’s – WTC7 NIST Finally Admits Freefall”.

      Ve-e-e-e-r-r-ree eenteresting…

      Will watch your second later.


    261. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –


      That AC/DC video is fantastic – thought the singer was going to do himself a damage with that chanter right enough, but what a great tune. Soo-perb.

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, so my language was not technically robust. Pedant. 😉

      It can’t be helped. I watched a clip of the architect describing the “design spec.” and the reasoning. BETTER. 🙂

    263. liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood …..or anyone still around, when the Americans are talking about Kerosene do they mean Parriffan?

    264. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @liz g –

      Paraffin, aye.

    265. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi liz g.

      Kerosene is, indeed, paraffin.

      Not to be confused with ‘firewater’, a Scottish produce which native Americans found to be to their taste.

    266. Thepnr says:

      Oh well, seriously but half an hour of my life wasted, seriously does that clown not know that steel is 99% iron at a minimum?

      So steel has to melt before it weakens? Horseshit, for every degree rise in temperature there is a reduction in yield strength.

      Education, education, education.

    267. liz g says:

      Thepnr probably about to waste another few minutes of your life but if you wouldn’t mind…..
      Is the “nest” of my coal fireplace made of iron or steel and would the frame’s of the 9/11 buildings be similar?
      Also….if you don’t mind……How accurate /or ridiculous is the statement… “A plane full of fule is like a coke can full of paraffin on a much smaller scale”?

    268. liz g says:

      Briandoonthetoon @ 8.28
      Hi as you can tell I am confused about many things but my whisky isn’t one of them.

    269. Following on from Building 7.

      One of the most interesting tenants was then-Mayor Giuliani’s Office of Emergency Management, and its emergency command center on the 23rd floor. This floor received 15 million dollars worth of renovations, including independent and secure air and water supplies, and bullet and bomb resistant windows designed to withstand 200 MPH winds.

      In February 2013 documentary maker Tony Rooke took the licence fee to court under Article 3, Section 15 of the Terrorism Act 2000 on the basis that the BBC were complicit in the 9/11 cover-up and had deliberately misled the public in their broadcasting. Tony was given the opportunity to demonstrate to the judge that the BBC had quite deliberately lied to the British public about the events of that day, in particular their ‘Conspiracy Files’ programme. The fact that the BBC had foreknowledge and had reported on the collapse of WTC7 20 minutes before it happened formed the basis for his case that the licence was not appropriate. Tony was not fined and was allowed to walk away on a conditional discharge.

    270. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      No way am I falling out with you or anyone else over this stuff.

      It’s out there, and it has been since 2008. The ‘official’ 9/11 report has been out even longer, and virtually no-one has bothered their arse to read either. If Bush had got his way, there would’ve been NO investigation, and when he was eventually forced to commission one he wanted it to be headed-up by Henry fucking Kissinger.

      Belief in the ‘official’ version (which is also a ‘conspiracy theory’ involving a guy orchestrating things from a cave) defies rationality and the laws of science. It’s that simple. People can argue all they like over this or that solitary point, and that suits those who don’t want us seeing the bigger picture – some regular and respected commenters on WOS have made fools of themselves in recent days with lazy parroting of clichés and cod-science presented as ‘expertise’.

      ‘High-rise steel framed buildings are designed to collapse if they are ‘punctured”?! I won’t name who wrote that in a recent thread. One of the most astonishingly stupid comments I’ve seen on this or any other blog, 9/11-related or not.

      This issue enrages people, and for good reason, but there’s no fucking way I’m going to say I see an apple when someone holds up a banana. I got into a wild BBC-related thread about this stuff, years ago, 2010/11, and it went on for a full year. I’ve lost friends over it. I’m not an architect, an engineer, a philosopher, a theologian. I’m not an ‘expert’ on anything, but I know that Newton wasn’t having a laugh – the laws he ‘discovered’ are sound. The Scottish enlightenment was based on ‘reason’, and if we abandon faith in the most basic truths of science then we deserve all we get.

      I’m no crusader. I want friends, same as anyone else. I want to believe that Western Democracy is fundamentally ‘good’, that our representatives are, by and large, decent, well-motivated citizens who have a vocation to assist their fellows. Yes, I do want to believe that.

      But I will not be told who to hate, and allow myself to be force-fed ‘reasons’ for hating them. I refuse to live in constant fear of bogey-men created by clever people who’ve been seduced into prostituting their talents for a fast buck.

      And I refuse to lose any more friends over it. Period.

    271. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      OK, absolutely my last post on this subject, I’ll answer you questions and give a bit more.

      1. “Is the “nest” of my coal fireplace made of iron or steel and would the frame’s of the 9/11 buildings be similar?”

      Yes, they are most likely identical. Mild steel, nothing special.

      2. “A plane full of fule is like a coke can full of paraffin on a much smaller scale”

      No idea as to the reality of that statement, personally I find the comparison ridiculous.

      Here’s the extra bitty, buildings or oil rigs made from steel frames are designed to resist fire. Of course they are, but it is only anticipating a “normal” fire. The steel is always fireproofed, at least these days it is because it’s in the design standards, the codes that the engineers have to work to.

      Doesn’t mean that unanticipated events such as 9/11 or the Piper Alpha disaster will result in that design failing. The design hasn’t really failed, the circumstances were exceptional and not included in the design brief.

      See how a structure may collapse without reference to 9/11. Do you suspect a conspiracy for Piper Alpha?

      I post this reluctantly, I knew someone who died that night. It doesn’t tell the whole story but you will get the gist. North Sea platforms could probably survive a 767 flying directly into them. No steel structure though will survive the heat if intense enough.

      Oil platforms are designed to be much stronger than buildings on land. They have to be. By the next day two thirds of Alpha had disappeared beneath the waves? Think about it.

    272. Thepnr says:


      Never saw your post before I sent my other. A view is just that. You can have yours and me mine, it is certainly not a personal issue.

      It is an opinion, and thank fuck we do have differing opinions or what would be the point?

      I doubt I will let myself either be told who to hate, nor do I live in fear. In fact, the opposite, I want to strike back. But against who?

      All I can do from my comfy couch is strike back verbally, with a few choice words now and then. All I have left is words.

    273. liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 9.49pm
      Thank you for answering my questions,and I will not ask anymore, I do not think the Piper Alfa tragedy or 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy.
      My questions were only pertaining to an analogy I had heard of, that reduced the explanation to the familiar, ie, “a coke can full of paraffin couldn’t melt the metal bar’s of the nest of a coal fire all at the same time.
      That seemed to make sense.
      I really was only wondering.
      Although I do admit to being more than a little curious about building 7 but that’s more to do with the BBC’S role than anything else.
      Anyway thank you for you’re time.
      Also thanks to the other’s who took the time to humour me and respond.

    274. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Good evening Wingers

      I came on here for some good cheer after a hellishly depressing evening reading my Facebook posts.

      Apart from the harrowing awfulness of children being killed and maimed from bombing by hawks and other assorted bast***s, an old Uni friend and her husband are having one of their regular “Smash the SNP” rants, spewing out hatred and venom about the “hatred and venom” that Alex S and Nicola S have created in “our once peaceful, tolerant country”. How Scotland has been ruined for ever by the SNP; how WWII grandfathers would turn in their graves, etc etc. How they have “lost countless friends” because of the SNP. I was desperate to get on there and say that it is actually their own unhinged fury and bitterness that is probably losing them their friends…….and what a nasty shithole of a regime they have landed us all in with their fecking No vote, but, heck, life is too short and I cannot be arsed getting into such a pointless barney on there this evening.


      So I come on here and find my nearest and dearest Wingers argy-bargy-ing about 9/11 “conspiracy” theories!!

      Oh well, may as well add my tuppence worth:

      I utterly appreciate ThPNR’s tangible engineering expertise, and Cameron B’s links do intrigue me. Two of my other old pals from Uni (sensible, reasonable, non-hate-fuelled Yes ones) are also scientist/engineery types.

      And they are both completely convinced that it was all planned in the USA/Israel.

      I guess my own feelings chime most with Ian Brotherhood’s on this.

      Anyway, where is Paula Rose for some sweetness on this dreary night?

      And as I haven’t been on Off-T for a while I am behind on the Wings’ social calendar. Are we having a Christmas night out?

    275. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Indeed. Agreed.

      Unfortunately, our views/opinions count for nothing.

      The self-declared masters of the universe have taken it upon themselves to decide what we should think/believe/’understand’, and have powerful means of ensuring that critical thinkers are identified and effectively ‘removed’ (e.g. dissident voices in academia).

      What’s more, they see it as a ‘duty’ – same idea as ‘white man’s burden’, but enlarged to encompass the whole globe. Why is our NHS under such threat? Why has New Labour’s enthusiastic acceptance of PPP/PFI all-but fucked any chance of real sustainable infrastructure development in this country? Who made them enthusiastic about it in the first place? Why is it that people here STILL can’t see that the Labour Party is about as ‘socialist’ as Jacob Rees-Mogg?

      The shite John McTernan’s been coming out with this week sums it all up – no ‘credible’ UK PM can be a ‘pacifist’. We have to be relied upon to provide leaders who will do the US’s bidding. Tories? Nae probs. Labour was also reliable, until Corbyn got the gig. Make no mistake about it – that wretched man will be hounded out by the McTernans, one way or another.

      That’s why we pesky Nats are such a pain up the hole for them – we present an existential threat to the ‘UK’. As such, we will not be permitted to exercise any power which threatens the status quo. That status quo centres on the ‘Clash of Civilisations’ myth which, in turn, falls apart without the 9/11 narrative. If 9/11 is a provable false-flag then the whole ‘Project for a New American Century’ hubris is exposed and cannot be maintained. The stakes are too high for any such exposure, hence the complicity of the MSM and the importance of self-censorship in supposedly ‘alternative’ voices.

      Some on the main threads have angrily shouted-down new commenters who (perhaps naively) posted links to 9/11 material in good faith, not understanding that there is a permanent groundswell of reaction against any mention of the subject lest it taint WOS and all involved as ‘conspiracy nutters’. But that reaction has to be examined closely. It has to be treated as dispassionately as any scientist or engineer or thinker would approach a specific problem, picking it apart and dealing with the constituent parts.

      Right now we’re still a long way from being able to assess ourselves with anywhere-near the required levels of rigour and honesty to be able to undertake such analysis – what does it mean that even you and I, friends, can, apparently, hold such contrary opinions about an event which has been subjected to intense scrutiny? Who performs the scrutiny? Where is the truth? Who has an interest in making us believe this, that or t’other? Are there no identifiable, scientifically irrefutable facts?

      I said on a main thread, day before yesterday (in reply to Robert Peffers) that this subject is taboo. I meant that, and mean it still. It is virtually impossible to discuss it without people getting angry at whoever brought it up. That, to me, qualifies as ‘taboo’. Thirty, forty years ago, it could’ve been ‘cancer’ (The Big C) or child abuse (Eh? What?).

      We just don’t know how to approach it, how to get into a real discussion about what happened that day. It may take a long time to find a way of doing so, and in the meantime, as we bicker? The evil bastards who rely on that one event to secure our ‘permission’ for yet more war and mayhem are merrily maximising their profits and power.

    276. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @Ian Brotherhood, 10.45

      Absolutely agree with everything you’ve said there.

    277. 911 was designated a crime and just basic crime investigations don’t involve removal of the evidence before it is removed under any circumstances. Was this basic rule of any investigation followed? No.

    278. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Quinie frae Angus –


      You came in here for some light relief, and ended-up reading heaviness.

      You up for a dance?

      Specifically, a Line Dance a la Soul Train?

      (Seems like ages since we last met, but you’ll recognise me – I’m in the red shirt, approx. 1.20)

    279. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I’ve only got two cans left, so I am now, officially, concentrating on dancing:

      Daft Punk, ‘Get Lucky’ –

    280. liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Well said
      As someone pointed out on the main thread 9/11 was an off topic subject.
      Even although I had already said as much.
      Then someone else was effin and jeffin about it.
      While it’s true there are many places on the internet to discuss this issue.
      There aren’t many places like here,where anyone can run an idea past someone with a bit of knowledge and still make up there own mind
      So I do not apologise for “askin stuff” but I am sorry for disrupting the main thread.


    281. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      We are friends, friends can disagree. In fact doesn’t that make a friendship all the stronger? I believe so.

      @Quinie frae Angus

      Nice to hear from you, don’t worry. Just a Wingers’s tiff 🙂

      Here’s a wee song for Ian and Lyndsay, no it’ for all of you that venture here. Been played before, but what hasn’t?

    282. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @liz g –


      Fair do’s.

      Nae hammers here, just Bee-Gee sounds and cool outfits…

    283. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Oh, thanks so much for the Soul Train vid – how fab was that. Fair cheered me up, so it did. And yes, I did recognise you there – you haven’t changed a bit.


      No need to apologise for anything – the Wings comment threads are an unprecedented repository of excellent well-researched information provided by a friendly (on the whole) community and personally I don’t think any topic should be off-limits. Particularly if it relates to our communal quest for Independence.

      And if anything relates to Scots Indy, 9/11 does. It’s all about the military-industrial complex, and last year we very nearly derailed the fenders.

      Next time.

      But we’ll only do it by educating one another. Opening eyes, wars and minds.

    284. Thepnr says:

      One of my favs and it always makes me think of Ian.

      No offence buddy, it’s meant as a compliment 🙂

    285. liz g says:

      Bee Gee’s…. sound and fashion….
      All is well

    286. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr, Quinie & liz –


      It’s all good.

      I sign off now, sending y’all much love. Sadly, I put out my back during that last line dance… 🙁

      Here’s one which pushes buttons for all sorts of reasons and is pure kitsch, but hey, who cares?

      If you’re not in tears at the end of this you’re not human, let alone Scottish.

    287. Thepnr says:

      Cheers Ian.

      My sign off, one from when I was in the prime of life. Oh, memories of those days LOL!

      Adam & The Ants – Stand And Deliver

    288. CameronB Brodie says:

      This book introduces students to the challenges of media ethics and socially responsible media practice. Using US and international case studies based on real-life experiences of journalists, newsmakers, policy makers, and consumers, Valerie Alia invites readers to examine the pressing ethical and moral questions faced by the media and develop strategies for ethical problem solving and decision-making.

      You know you want to be the first to review this item, informed by a post-indyref1 perspective. :0

      Apparently inspired by Akira Kurosawa’s 1950 film Rashomon, or did I remember incorrectly.

    289. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s a cool cover. That’s my perspective though. 🙂

      Matumbi – Brother Louie

    290. K1 says:

      Sometimes I wish there was an off topic off topic where some of these off topics could be discussed openly without rancour.

      How come all the people convinced that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job are so fucking angry at those who provide information to the contrary?

      Had enough of that crap from No voters…shouted down, told I must be a ‘complete idiot’ by my own mother. Watch yer attitudes Wingers with others, some come across like yer typical No voters, utterly dismissive and quite frankly rude beyond the pale. Just because someone has a different take.

      You’d think we’d learned something about closed mind’s…turns out yer mind is only ‘open’ if ye agree is it? Scunnered.

      I wouldn’t reveal my innermost thoughts to anyone on Wings…on this subject or any other subject that had any meaning for me. I’ve watched this happen too often.

      Kindness should be the byfeeling. Always.

      (except wi pricks…of course…they need balloons burst).

    291. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @K1 –

      Hearing ye pal.

      Just popped in for final scan before shutting-down.

      Don’t let it get to ye.

      ‘Truth will out’ an ‘aw that jazz!

      Tomorrow’s another day…

      I can’t think of any more platitudes!


      We’ll get there!

      That’s another one…


    292. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi K1.

      My last offering before I turn in tonight; specially for you, the original German version, just to be internationalist.

    293. K1 says:

      Cheers Ian, and Brian…genuinely made me laugh…thanks 🙂

    294. yesindyref2 says:

      Just say your opinion K1, and never mind what people think. If you get “taunted” by the likes of “did your mummy know you’re up late”, or “are you thick or what”, it just shows whoever has to resort to such rubbish has no argument, nothing to contribute.

    295. john king says:

      I can’t see any responses to my question about yesguy,
      cumon yesguy if your out there let us know your ok,

      He’s one of us we need to check and see if he’s ok, Tam do you or Jenny have any info on him?

    296. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @Ian B, 12. 25 am

      Wow, thanks for that link! If anyone hasn’t already clicked Iain’s music link here yet, please do. Tear in my eye as I make my way through my porridge this morning.

      Thanks to ThePNR too and all the Wingers I have met and known (so far) for keeping me sane and encouraged.

      Freudian slip in my last post though: I meant “open eyes, EARS and minds”. Somehow it came out as “open eyes WARS and minds”!!

      This is what comes of having a new smartphone and trying to write a comment on Wings on it, while lying in my bed.

      Onwards and upwards.

      @John King
      Sorry, can’t help you with any info about YesGuy.

      I agree, the vehement shutting down of anyone who wants to raise the “taboo topics” is surprising, to say the least, on a site that is massively flushing out truths as it is. I don’t know nearly enough about it to be able to make any meaningful contribution but I think it is important to read and digest the research and analysis done by others.

    297. K1 says:

      That’s not really my point yesindyref, I’m not disinclined to engage with those of differing views, at all. I mean sensibledave has been appalling in his descriptions of me in our exchanges. So what? I agree with you that this reveals a fixed mind and that when threatened resorts to insult. Mair tae be pitied than scorned.

      No, my point is this ‘anger’ approach amongst ouselves, I was merely noting the exact similarity of that angry rejection out of hand, there is no discourse with the 9/11 subject.

      I was comparing like for like on the mindset of No voters.

      I was stating that I would not disclose what was close to my heart, on subjects that had meaning for me, on Wings. I think that’s just common sense, I’m not for being ’rounded on’ or ’rounding on’ for the sake of ‘debate’.

      So much gets lost in interpretation and whilst forums provide an excellent outlet for debate, much of what passes for debate is actually reduced to arguing opinions with little room for what I would term as the ‘back story’s’ of the protagonists.

      Personally I prefer one on one discussions, in real world situations for genuine engagement, the totality of the person is available there and warmth is possible.

      I’m not for dismissing anyone out of hand, god love me I even ventured discourse wi mr ‘yer aw anti-english dave’, and believe me he wis easy compared to my mother. These types of exchanges, the difficult ones, are what challenge me to become more sensitive to those with completely different outlooks.

      I do literally go away and attempt to put myself in their perspective, I contemplate, research where I can, find out more about them if possible, as a means to better understand the ‘others’ perspective. And that is why I was moaning about the outright angry dismissals when it comes to 9/11, especially from those whose openness has been a pre requisite to their political stance regarding Scotland’s Independence.

      We are now living in a post referendum culture where we are ‘othered’ universally by our ‘UK state’. And no doubt by those who voted No, too. I don’t want my emotional development to be hindered by adopting the exact same mentality of those who reject out of hand alternative approaches and perspectives to some ‘fixed’ reality, by angrily lashing out because my world view is threatened by that differing outlook.

      It’s not just an ‘external’ shift in perspective that accounts for the altering of ones outlook on any given subject (anyone can bandy facts and figures about, which are important) but, there is of necessity an internal shift, that to my mind, is of far more significance when it comes to the opening of a mind to alternative view points.

      To reach others we have to touch hearts, if the heart can be touched the mind naturally opens. It’s very ‘freeing’ not to be bound by ‘conventional wisdom’.

    298. Andrew McLean says:

      My first and last post re 9:11
      I have worked in construction engineering for about 17 years, that’s steel buildings, not conventional or timber framed building. During that time I was involved in accident incident investigation when framework moved or very rairley toppled.
      When 9:11 happened I was watching it at work in the company of managers and engineers. Before the first tower collapsed in our structural engineer said it’s going to collapse. He could see the stresses were to great.
      As for the fire that alone would have severely damaged the colum,s , most probably the engines took out a few, and as the fire burned the week and twisted structure couldn’t take the weight from above, so slowly at first collapsed.
      Now demolition theory, to take down a building you need to open up the structure, put directional charges round the columns and run miles of detination cord through the building. I think the thousands who worked there would have noticed! And when the towers fell the noise of the charges would be considerable as obvious as the blowout around the structure!
      However there was a problem during construction of one of the towers that necessitated the strengthening of the structure, I remember seeing a documentary about it.
      Did the government bring down the towers, absoluty not, sometimes I think conspiracy theorists are posting to tarnish the rest of us! Or are just gullible.

    299. K1 says:

      So Andrew you haven’t looked at the body of evidence since that day, from engineers and architects who are at the forefront of questioning and investigating 9/11?

      Fine, as long as you’re sure and you have your credentials that strengthen your conclusions and you are secure in your own position.

      No need then to call others gullible then, is there? Or is that a bit of ‘superiority’ creeping in?

      By all means have yer own views but why is it those who are adamant about this always have to to do the ‘backhand’ slap afore they go?

      No need tae answer Andrew. It was afterall your first and last comment on this.

    300. Tony Little says:

      A few brief observations about 911.

      @Thepnr asks why the design brief for the Twin Towers referenced airplane hits. Several years earlier a light plane hit the Empire State Building (If I recall correctly, it may have been the Sears Tower) and as a consequence the designers had to ensure that these massively high building could withstand the largest aircraft in service. They have repeatedly stated that in their view, the planes by themselves should not have been able to bring down the towers.

      A number of people hare are suggesting that the fire from the aircraft fuel was sufficient to weaken the steel girders. A kerosene fire will burn at between 800 – 1500F depending on the exact circumstances of the blaze. As anyone can recall the videos of the planes hitting the towers show a massive fireball which would have burned off the majority of the kerosene on that initial blast. The question remains, was the resulting fire sufficiently strong enough to weaken the steel – it clearly was not strong enough to melt it (steel melts at approximately 2700F).

      Observation of the fires that “raged” in the WTC 1, 2 (and importantly WTC7) would suggest fires are various places, but within the sections of the buildings that were initially struck. So why would the building eventually collapse on its own footprint, rather than toppling sideways (the point of least resistance)?

      Now I am prepared to concede that WTC 1&2 may have collapsed at virtual free-fall speed on its own footprint due to the spontaneous weakening of ALL the necessary Central and Outside steel girders at the same time. But no one has yet ‘proved’ that this could realistically happen when a strict application of the laws of physics are applied. However …

      WTC7 was NOT hit by a plane, was seen to have limited small fires, and showed NO external damage of weakening of the structure. In the entire history of high rise steel cased buildings only three have even collapsed due to fire – all three were on 11 September 2001 at the WTC. There are hundreds of examples of steel frame buildings on fire – some fires raging for hours if not days – and in NO CASE has the building collapsed into dust, as happened on 911. That alone should give anyone cause to pause.

      And finally re: WTC7, the BBC announced that the building had collapsed before it came down. WTC7 is actually seen behind the BBC commentator even as she is telling the world that it had also collapsed. Strange, or just one of those things?

      I have no idea exactly what happened on 911. I suspect very few people do. The events that day provided one of the major catalysts that actually brings us right up to today. The justification for the “War on Terror” which has driven the UK to follow in the footsteps of the USA and its Industrial-Military Complex was forged in the fires of the WTC buildings that raged for months afterwards.

      I will close with a well known quotation:

      “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

      We live in dangerous times, and remaining skeptical about what our Governments tell us would seem to be a wise position to keep.

    301. X_Sticks says:


      I don’t hold with the conspiracy theories regarding the destruction of the WTC.

      The buildings were brought down by the impact of well fuelled aircraft hitting them at 300+ MPH. I don’t think they were blown up by the CIA or anyone other than the (mostly) Saudi terrorists in the planes.

      Where I think the conspiracy lies is that the American government and it’s intelligence agencies knew a major attack was imminent and did not attempt to stop it.

      They probably didn’t know what that attack was going to be and they probably didn’t know exactly where or when it was going to happen. What they did know was that an attack would give them all the excuse they required to perpetrate the biggest fraud in the history of the world.

      The American government and Unocal was in negotiations with the Taliban to build a pipeline through Afghanistan prior to 9/11. They could not get the Taliban to agree the building of the pipeline. They badly wanted access to Afghanistan.

      They got it. That’s initially what it was all about. Right wing America made a fortune out of the Afghan war.

      It then allowed them to create their ‘war on terror’ which they have used to erode all our civil liberties and privacy. It was used as the excuse to perpetrate the illegal invasion of Iraq. Right wing America made a fortune out of the Iraq war.

      The ‘war on terror’ is regularly trotted out whenever there is a need for the west to ‘protect it’s interests’.

      Who is profiting from the Syrian conflict? The Palestinian conflict? The Yemen conflict? The Libyan conflict? The global arms trade. Largely right wing America.

      Beginning to see a trend here?

      I think that is the conspiracy. New World Order? Perhaps some truth in there.

    302. Tony Little says:


      IF the planes caused WTC 1 & 2 to collapse (I remain somewhat skeptical given the volume of contradictions in the science as presented by international architects, physicists, engineers etc.) how do you explain WTC 7?

      I don’t know the answer to the question who planned and executed this operation (The USA Govt is no stranger to Black Ops) but this incident was the “New Pearl Harbor” that the exponents of the Project for a New American Century wanted.

      I remain highly skeptical of the ‘official’ 911 conspiracy theory.

    303. X_Sticks says:


      WTC7 only appears to have some questions about it. There was no direct impact on the building and the building should have been able to withstand the fires provided the sprinkler system worked. It didn’t. I think it may just come down to poor building quality and uncontained fires burning over a long period.

      I do think WTC7 was where the American government monitored (spied on) the global transactions that took place in the WTC. There was a CIA office in that building and I suspect that is why it was there. Osama bin Laden saw the WTC as the heart of the globalisation of capitalism. He had tried to bomb it before. Some people in American intelligence may have had an inkling that WTC was the intended target. I remember watching when Bush was advised about the attack (while visiting a primary school). He looked like a man being told that something he already expected had just happened.

      I find it strangely ironic that others of the bin Laden family along with some of the Saudi royal family were hastily evacuated from the US right after 9/11 before any other flights were allowed.

    304. Alan Mackintosh says:

      As Tony said, in the entire history of steel framed buildings, only 3 have ever fallen down as a result of fire. And they all happened on Sept 11. And even if WTC7 was the exception and fell due to structural failure of heat weakened steel, it fell at freefall speed, ie there was no resistance below it. For their to be no resistance, it had to be removd in some way. A fire is not going to give you instantaneous failure leading to freefall acceleration

    305. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Please check out this Amazon review page of David Ray Griffin’s ‘The New Pearl Harbor’ (2004).

      Despite this book being published more than a decade ago, most Americans still don’t know that WTC 7 came down on 9/11, and upwards of 60% of them believe Saddam Hussein had a hand in the whole thing.

    306. ahundredthidiot says:

      Re 9/11 and engineering, construction, fire etc

      China airways engine fire is an excellent example of jeta1 fuel on fire and the immense heat (around 800 to 1000 degrees, depending on several factors, not least ambient air temp) anyway, the fuel only generates this immense heat for short periods of time, that is, until it is consumed by fire. So the aircraft suffered structural collapse.

      Impressive, yes. But aircraft are built to be light using thin alloy metals or composite materials, which both suffer badly in high temperatures.

      Buildings are built to last. It is not the same. Burn time and conducted heat all play their part in dissipating heat from source and spreading fire to other areas.

      To suggest building 7, from simple office fires, could free fall collapse, is simply nuts. Even if part of the building had been hit by falling structure, the result would’ve been disintegrating floor levels on corners or isolated areas.

      And ‘sprayed with jet fuel’ this would’ve burned out as it atomised in the air.

    307. ahundredthidiot says:

      Andrew MacLean

      I watched it on telly on the day, all day, and I was convincing myself that all the explosions I was hearing was back up generator supply rooms, or cylinders trapped inside building on fire, but something just didn’t ring true.

      I only saw building 7 footage many years after believing the official story amid a growing suspicion of flight 93 ‘disappearing’ into the earth. I think a marble in sand was the theory…..a thin skinned aircraft hitting the solid earth at high speed with no wreckage…..c’mon man!

    308. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Ian B, Tony, 100th, you may be interested in this view of the WTC. It refreshed my high school chemistry somewhat.

    309. MrObycyek says:

      I can recommend this book as well. The author has written quite a few books on the subject including one that deals specifically with WTC7 and one rather brilliantly called Debunking 9/11 Debunking.

      Another book on 9/11 that is worth reading is The 9/11 Mystery Plane by Mark H. Gaffney which features a foreword by David Ray Griffin. This is about the Doomsday plane used by the US military which was in the air on 9/11 during the attack on the Pentagon. It was actually caught on camera flying over Washington.

    310. ahundredthidiot says:


      I will give your recommendation my attention tomorrow, because I believe in ruling nothing out, unlike those who just can’t help themselves from refuting anything other than their established beliefs.

      Spanish inquisition anyone!

      Now, this is a way out conspiracy, what if western governments took a German approach and made questioning the official version as illegal. Not that I am for one second being disrespectful of the holocaust mind. I am just making reference.

      Appointment with rioja and food awaits.

    311. a says:

      100th, Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion…

      Enjoy the Rioja! (Topical choice…)

    312. Tony Little says:

      @Alan Macintosh

      Thanks for that. I recently came across a different nuclear option which was a devise panted in the base of each tower (due to 1960s building regulations requiring new high buildings to be able to be ‘safely’ demolished!) which would have pulverised the building from the ground up.

      If correct (note I am NOT suggesting this is correct) the properties of such an explosion would fit some of the characteristics of the WTC building anomalies.

      1. Almost everything in the buildings turned to dust
      2. Melted steel found in the basements still burning months later
      3. the physical nature of the demolition. i.e. the dust clouds being projected UP
      4. The free-fall speed of collapse
      5. Parts of the building structure being hurtled hundreds of yards away.

      I do not know what I believe DID happen on 911, but I know what didn’t and that’s the ‘official’ conspiracy theory. It doesn’t stand up to basic scientific argument.

    313. john king says:

      Thanks for the response Quine
      I don’t think he was/is in the best of health.
      kinda worried about his complete disappearance, I can’t even remember when I last saw a post from him he tended to post a lot on Derek Batemans blog.

    314. Thepnr says:

      Just settling in for the second half. Looking pretty even so far.

      Somethings gotta give though.

    315. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi John King.

      When you first queried Yesguy’s whereabouts a couple of days ago, I did a site-specific (Wings) search at Google.

      Looks like the last time he posted here was in the middle of July.

    316. Thepnr says:

      Can anyone believe this?

      There is a song on you tube called popcorn that is 10 HOURS long. Yes 10 hours, it repeats over and over again the original hit.

      Deary me, and we thought we were sad LOL. Searching now for a Slab one saying SNP BAD, SNP BAD, SNP BAD for 10 hours, must be there.

    317. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      RE: your 10 hour ‘Popcorn’.

      Back in my early days of deejaying, I reckoned that “Race With The Devil” by The Gun was just too short. So I put together a version that lasted for 15 minutes – just to make the point, dentcha know?

      Here’s the short version, featuring one Adrian Gurvitz…

    318. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      For those of you who feel the need to make a short, pithy comment, now and again, I have uploaded this clip for yooz.

      Feel free to copy and save the link and use as you see fit.

    319. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Darts, ‘Come Back My Love’ –

    320. Thepnr says:



    321. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Darts was a band whose career I followed, because it was formed by two members of ‘The John Dummer Band”, of whom I had been a fan since 1969. The two members were drummer John Dummer and bassist Thumper Thomson.

      The John Dummer (Blues) Band featured as members Dave Kelly (Blues Band), his sister Joanne Kelly and Tony McPhee (Groundhogs).

      This is a classic piece of blues instrumental guitar, featuring Tony McPhee and Dave Kelly, from the first John Dummer album, ‘Cabal’.

      BTW: I’ve mentioned this before but Status Quo’s album “Ma Kelly’s Greasy Spoon” was named in honour of Dave & Joanne Kelly’s mum, who ran a transport cafe, that all the muso’s in the London area used apres gig.

    322. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Was wondering myself where she had got to.

    323. Thepnr says:

      Tonight was shite. I am angry and sad, but I’m just one small insignificant person. I’m carrying on, they won’t depress me to the extent that I refuse to carry on fighting them. Fuck them.

      Here I am stuck in the middle with you clowns. You know, the horrible version. Our governments version where they slowly torture us. IDS style.

    324. Paula Rose says:

      I am me and this is my pal…

    325. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      No comment required from me for this:-

    326. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Suited my mood perfectly. Great wee tune.

    327. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. organs. Stands up well for it’s age, don’tcha think? 😉

      ??????? ??????????? – ???? ???????

    328. CameronB Brodie says:

      Apparently that was all Greek to WordPress. 🙂

    329. David says:

      This one’s for the Cybernat General:

      Ukelele Orchestra of Great Britain – Should I Stay or Should I Go


    330. Paula Rose says:

      David Honey – theme for the night xx

    331. CameronB Brodie says:

      Not quite the Ukelele Orchestra of Great Britain.

      Some dude on a mandolin/kazoo – I want to break free

    332. Andy S says:

      Blog piece about why we should not go to war. Worth a read.

    333. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose

      Haha, I know why you chose that one.

      To appreciate this Ukelele tune then first you must watch this.

      Now, not great I’ll admit. The first one is pretty good.

      I prefer the banjo, and if you can’t be arsed? Then this is the one for you 🙂

    334. David says:

      OK, I’m going to turn it up to eleven, and call on the inbred redneck moonshiners who are Hayseed Dixie to rock the uke with their version of “Ace Of Spades”.

      GCHQ is gonna get rocked tonite fo’ sure!


    335. David says:

      And this one is for MI5/MI6:
      Ukulele and Kazoo Original: “The Spy with the Blue Kazoo”

    336. Paula Rose says:

      If anyone needs to know listen to all of this –

    337. X_Sticks says:

      Been a bit of a depressing week all in all.

      I think this from Gil Scot Heron kinda sums it up for me

      and that made me think of this:

      My kind of drumming, probably Paul Robinson. So just to keep the rule of three and to keep it in the groove I came to this. The only answer.

      Couple of heavy weeks coming up for me so I’ll be thin on the ground. But don’t think that means I won’t be keeping an eye on you lot 😉

    338. Thepnr says:

      A wee reminder of the Carmichael fundraiser.

      “Help me Rhonda” – The last ever performance by the original Beach Boys in the UK. Knebworth 1980

      Now the reality:

      “As ever we are so appreciative of the unwavering support you have all given us so far. As the petitioners are still in an ongoing legal situation there is unfortunately still little detail we can provide at this time. We are relying on trust.”

      I’ve trusted them this far and they have done us proud. I’ll be sticking with them until it’s over, hope we all do.

      I very much doubt Mr Carmichael has a spare £200,000 down the back of the settee. He is being funded by those that wish to keep the boot on our human face.

      Let’s prove we have their measure, bad time of year I know but £1 or £2 between many goes a long way, we will match them.

      We fight on, just as they are doing on our behalf.

    339. Thepnr says:

      Well that was a mistake. I started off just wanting to invite you to listen to the Beach Boys, then realised I might use it to promote the Carmichael fundraiser.

      Had it on two threads at the same time and posted here first. Oops.

      Have copied it to the other thread.

    340. Thepnr says:

      razzle in my pocket ian dury

      The lyrics are great. Be warned not PC, sense of humour required 🙂

    341. Thepnr says:

      Bedtime. The missing link LOL.

    342. Robert Peffers says:

      Re the Orkney Fighting fund.
      I’ll be donating a wee puckle more than a fiver to both them and the SNP when I can get out to by bank.

      I started putting a wee bit by every week for them a good while back but will need to put it into my bank account to transfer it to them.

      Likely Monday or Tuesday.

    343. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Mention of ukeleles up above…

      I’ve been following this pair for a year or three. Rather entertaining.

    344. Thepnr says:

      “Boring” was the third episode of The Young Ones, a British sitcom. Madness performing “House of Fun” 1982

      This is the clip where The Young Ones do their Beatles Abbey Road style walk over the zebra crossing.

      Why don’t we make comedy like that anymore?

    345. Ian Brotherhood says:

      wtf is going on with the main threads? Keep kicking back to 11.04 this morning, with nothing posted thereafter showing…strange. 🙁

    346. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      “80s comedy”. See here, 6 December, 2015 at 10:24 pm:-

    347. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      This is my 4th attempt to post this comment – the first was last night; the other three were tonight. Been changing the text each time with no success.

      For this attempt, I will use no links (one of my attempts returned the error message that I wasn’t allowed to access “comments”(?). I had included a link back to my post in “Altered States”.

      Onnyhoo, re: 80s comedy. Go to my comment at 10.24pm last night, on the “Altered States” page, and you’ll find the link, with the context.

    348. Thepnr says:

      Hey Brian

      Got the message mate, cheers 🙂

    349. sandra says:

      Is this a First ????

      Was scrolling on a drop down menu for countries . I was looking for the UK on the the US Postal Service (USPS )site to calculate postage to the UK. The UK was missing !!

      Saw Wales under W

      Scotland under S

      England under E

      N.Ireland under N

      I’ve never seen this anywhere before always UK for the 4 countries.

    350. Paula Rose says:

      This should amuse some of you – are you clever enough to work for GCHQ?

    351. Paula Rose says:

      Something for all you aspiring spies to enjoy –

    352. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Re: Wings Over Aberdeen 2016.

      Can I suggest to Ronnie, Wuffing Dug and X_Sticks, that you avoid the weekend of 23rd January?

      That’s when all the Burns Suppers will be happening – and I’ll be going to my first, in the world, EVER!

    353. JLT says:

      Alright guys, how you all doing?

      Been extremely busy with work and studies (was working every weekend for the last 6 weeks, which then took all my spare time away to catch up on studying. However …it’s done!!!). And I finally go on holiday for 3 weeks come this Tuesday! Yeah!!!!

      Anyway …’Wings over Aberdeen’ sounds good? Will keep a wee eye on the off-topic. A wee weekend away up the North-East could be a great occasion!

    354. Paula Rose says:

      Wings over Aberdecadent was the preferred option.

    355. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s one for Alistair, Alistair and Danny.

      Linkin Park, ‘LIES GREED MISERY’ –

    356. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Blimey, it’s quiet in here tonight…Friday too..

      Never mind – the whole place will busy-up when the main threads get close to the half-millionth comment!


    357. Thepnr says:

      Wee change from the normal for me.

      Ace of Spades. Heavy man!

    358. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr & Stoker –


      Gerry Rafferty, ‘Get It Right Next Time’ –

    359. David says:

      @Thepnr, back in November 1979, a schoolmate went to a Hawkwind concert on Sunday 18th, then a Motorhead concert on Mon 19th, both at the Glasgow Apollo.

      All our school year then had hearing tests (no idea why) on Tueday 20th. He failed the test. Badly. 🙂

      Hawkwind – “Shot down in the night”

      (God bless t’internet for providing band tour dates from 36(!) years ago to refresh my memory.)

    360. Stoker says:

      Mia Zapata was lead singer with the punk band The Gits. In July 1993 she was brutally murdered and to this day her killer has never been caught. Joan Jett wrote this song with Kathleen Hannah in memory of Mia:

      Joan Jett & The Blackhearts – Go Home

    361. Thepnr says:

      Great tunes guys, checking them all out. Friday night seems to be party time 🙂

      Right, a song that to my knowledge has never been played on Off Toptic and I never thought I’d be the one playing it.

      Why? I ask myself.

    362. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi David.

      Here’re the two combined – Hawkwind doing the original version of ‘Motorhead’.

    363. Stoker says:

      Here’s a wee bit of Country for all you WOS CROFTERS out there keeping the flock together, our day will come.

      Radio Sweethearts – Crazy Heart

      WOS CROFTERS = CRazy OFf TopicERS.

    364. Paula Rose says:

      Keep the noise down dears.

    365. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      If you’re gonna offer $h¡† like that, I’ve got to hit back with this…

    366. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr (11.48) –

      Good shout there mister, and I think you’re right – don’t recall ever seeing it here. TBH, I’ve never seen that video.

      Brings back fond memories. I used to sing it as ‘Hold Me By The Ears’.

    367. Thepnr says:

      Hello Paula

      Posted bang on midnight. Was that planed? LOL

      This is for you and you alone. 🙂

    368. Stoker says:

      Blue Swede – Hooked on a Feeling

      George Baker Selection – Little Green Bag

    369. Thepnr says:


      Well thanks for that, I got as far as the first Ding Dong Ding Dong. Then I gave up LOL.

    370. Stoker says:

      This dude is a dead ringer for that antiques dealer David Dickinson

      Al Bano & Romina Power – Felicita

    371. Thepnr says:

      Michael great choice again. My hero 🙂

    372. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Thepnr Here is the Original Version of a song you played Earlier. Without the chorus. I only post now and again now. But I still check wings every day. and off topic for the great mix of music and people who frequent there. Where would we be Without Wings ?

    373. Stoker says:

      My last contribution for the night.
      Time to chuck another log on the fire.
      Golden Earring – She Flies On Strange Wings

      And i’ll dedicate that one to ma wee sister who suddenly and unexpectedly passed away a few days ago. Take care one and all.

    374. Thepnr says:


      Very sorry to hear of your loss, I understand how you are feeling. Take care.

    375. Stoker says:

      Cheers ‘A’ – All things considered, she had a good innings.

      Chris Farlowe – Out Of Time

    376. Ealasaid says:

      “Gone to the dogs”.

      Somebody on Wings was looking for the origin of this phrase sometime ago. I don’t know if they found it, but I followed a recommendation on Wings to read Neil M. Gunn’s novels. While reading the ‘Silver Darlings’ I came across the origin and thought I should pass the favour on.

      While hunting for herring in their boats, with sail and oar, the fishermen could lose a precious catch of herring because of dogfish (of the shark family) biting through their nets to get at the herring. The catch was not only lost through large holes in the nets but they then had to mend their ragged nets before they could fish again. They said their fishing ‘had gone to the dogs’, i.e. dogfish.

      Hope this helps.

    377. X_Sticks says:


      My condolences Stoker. A sudden and unexpected loss of a loved one is always very difficult to deal with. My thoughts are with you and your family.

      Kate & Anna McGarrigle & family “Hard Times Come Again No More”

    378. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Bdtt, Paula et al

      Had a busy few weeks but not forgot about W.O.A. aka ‘Aberdecadent’ twin venue extravaganza.

      Good point Bdtt – we could aim for the 30th poss?

      I was out last night for work Christmas do. Managed 3pm till 1.30am. STILL GOT IT…. Naw ahve no, just starting to feel human the noo……

      Think I’ll go to Tesco and get a few beers and a film to watch 🙂

    379. X_Sticks says:


      30th sounds good to me. What about the rest of the team?

    380. Paula Rose says:

      *clears diary*

    381. David says:


      Condolences for your loss. Hope your sister did not suffer much.

      Turning to the music, yer man Al Bano has an excellent Wiki biography –
      “Al Bano is an Italian singer, actor, and winemaker.” 🙂
      La Dolce Vita!

    382. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Sorry to read about your sister Stoker.

      Wuffing Dug – 30th sounds fine!

      I’m just about to leave for the Team YES Bus Christmas party – on board the Dragon. Going over to Fife first and ending up at Mennies later on.

      If I’m on later, I may be the worse for wear…

    383. Thepnr says:


      Have a good night, while your away we have to prepare for the unexpected.

      “The Unicorn Invasion of Dundee”

    384. Thepnr says:

      Just a wee reminder of what Scotland voted for. Gies me the Boak.

    385. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      I lasted until 1.51, then mentally banjoed him with a huge frying pan.


    386. Thepnr says:

      Hey Ian

      Been meaning to ask you. Where did your avatar disappear too, you know the one that made you look intelligent 🙂

      I kinda miss it LOL

    387. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –


      I’m not intelligent enough to work out what happened to it.

      I know the one you mean though – it made me look mean and moody and preoccupied with something philosophical requiring profound reflection. In fact, it was a highly cropped snap taken when I was four sails to the wind and trying to focus on rolling a fag.

      Never mind…let’s get some tunes going.

    388. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s the intro to a famous BBC children’s programme which, for some reason, was in the news this week.

      I have a suspicion that there was a popular anti-Tory chant based on this same tune, but cannot remember where, when and why it was deployed. You can probably have a fair stab at what it suggested…


      Jackanory, ‘Opening Titles’ –

    389. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Over-egged video, but a great tune.

      The Doors, ‘Roadhouse Blues’ (live, 1970) –

    390. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ten years ago it was well-nigh impossible to get this track. Youtube is an amazing thing…

      Who’s first to identify the song Lennon made this tune famous with in a later solo?

      The Beatles, ‘Child of Nature’ –

    391. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Jealous Guy of course, here’s a weepy, brilliant lyrics.

    392. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Franklin footage soo-perb.

      Treble hoots for that one mister.


    393. Croompenstein says:

      The Barnsley nightingale…

    394. Croompenstein says:

      The Manchester nightingale…

    395. Thepnr says:


      I don’t get the Barnsley connotation but I did like the song and the pictures. Nice one.

    396. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The Glasgow Doomcrow…

      Sydney Devine, ‘Nobody’s Child’ –

    397. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Why did you need to remind me of that!

      When I was 12 my granny gave me a cassette recorder together with a Sydney Devine tape.

      I still have nightmares 🙂

    398. Thepnr says:

      hmm mind you Gary Glitter was No 1 at the time. I guess grannies know best.

    399. Thepnr says:

      Time I think for a bit of MUSIC.

    400. Thepnr says:

      I don’t mind if you’ve never clicked on a link to a song that I’ve posted before but I implore YOU to watch and listen to this.

      He gets it. This IS how I feel.

    401. Thepnr says:

      This video is truly astonishing.

      OK it’s just a mad Scotsman riding a bike, but there truly can’t be another person alive that can ride a bike like him!

      How to beat the traffic in the Canary Islands 🙂

      Link via Bella Calednia.

    402. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I was the worse for wear…

      BTW: in case anyone notices the wee change in my gravatar.

      This is my Saturnalia/Solstice/Yule version, with the wee holly leaf. It will be in place till just after Hogmanay.

      In advance of Hogmanay, I’ll offer this; a track I used to play around 10 to midnight at any Hogmanay gig I had.

    403. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Ahhh, that was nice you auld romantic you 🙂

      How about this? GIRFUY! Watch and understand LOLOLOL

    404. Thepnr says:

      Specially for TheHistoryWoman hope your reading 🙂

    405. Stoker says:

      Brian, David & X_Sticks – thanks for the kind words and thoughts.

      Ian Bro – thanks a bunch, (12.15am), now i’ve got images of Aliar Carbuncle swirling round the empty dancefloor, solo, with auld Steak & Kidney screeching through the fake smoke into the deserted seating areas beyond.

    406. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      That Johnny Cash link was brilliant.

      I knew his nickname was ‘the man in black’ but I didn’t even know there was a song of the same name. That’s the first time I’ve heard it.

      Brilliant. IMO, your best link yet brother.

      Hoots, hoots, and thrice I say it – HOOTS! 🙂

    407. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      First time I heard it was last night too. Amazing. I aim to please 🙂

    408. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      And I should mention that for some inexplicable reason I can’t stop watching it. WTF?

    409. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Dunno…there’s something very special about seeing a ‘real’ artist, in whatever genre, at work.

      Perhaps it’s because he was honest in telling the audience that he’d just completed the song and was delivering it for the first time. Not that anyone would know, eh?

      A very special dude, much-loved for good reason.

    410. Thepnr says:

      I absolutely hated this song when it first came out. I was wrong.

    411. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      OK, here’s my wee musical offering for tonight.

      I bought my first reel-to-reel tape recorder in 1969 and started recording Radio 1 and TV music programmes. This track is one I still have on a tape, somewhere in my hovelhold.

      It features Demis Roussos on vocals and bass, with Vangelis on keyboards.

      Never a hit in the UK, like a lot of singles I have liked over the years…

    412. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s one for James Kelly, yon dude wi’ the well-skelped arse:

      Mauri Clash, ‘I Can’t Stand Up For Falling Down’ –

    413. Ian Brotherhood says:

      James Brown, ‘I Can’t Stand It’ –

    414. Ian Brotherhood says:

      James Brown, ‘I Got Ants In My Pants’ –

    415. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Well, after my much ignored musical post from last night, I thought I would try again. I found this rather interesting…

      A member,”scottish charlie”, of posted this YouTube link last night.

      Eh thocht, “Eh ken thah!” So I did a bit of digging. Turns out it uses the same tune (first recorded as “Loch Lomond” in 1841) but with words written by the German folk-metal (?) band “Die Höhner” as “Mer stonn zo dir FC Kölle”, which roughly translates as – A-A-ARGH! – I can’t remember what my workmate told me this afternoon. I’ll update yooz tomorrow…

      The title in Ripuarian is “Mer stonn zo dir FC Kölle”.

      Onnyhoo, it’s the hymn of FC Cologne and is sung as the players go onto the pitch and the game starts, as the above link shows. The lyrics are in the Ripuarian dialect/language.

      I found another YouTube video, showing the band performing the song at an open-air concert. Shades of Runrig…

    416. cearc says:

      Ahh, fitting tributes Ian.

    417. Patrician says:

      I put this on one of the main threads but it looks like it got caught between some petty squabbling going on at the time and as we get a better class of people here, some food for thought:

      An interesting article by Duncan Campbell

      Especially for the more paranoid among us

    418. Thepnr says:


      I quite sure your not surprised, neither am I. It’s been going on for years. Everyone, everywhere and everything they do is being spied on.

      Welcome to 2015.

      David Bowie 1984 it’s pretty crap, wish he had wrote a better one LOL.

    419. Patrician says:


      I’m not surprised at all, and that is a problem. This is what we have come to expect now, with it being slowly drip fed to us what is going on. It is so insidious that we are hardly shocked by it anymore.

      It makes you wonder what was arrayed against us in the run up to the referendum.

    420. cearc says:

      Not surprised at all by that.

      Such a handsome building, shame about the contents!

    421. Thepnr says:

      Why would an elected government feel they had to spy on ALL it’s citizens?

      i can understand that with evidence judges can grant warrants to spy and record on the activities of potential criminals or terrorists. But for the rest of us?

      Are they afraid of dissent against the established doctrine?

      It would seem so, but who will be the judge at the end of the day, the people or the establishment?

    422. Patrician says:


      “Why would an elected government feel they had to spy on ALL it’s citizens?”

      Because we are all potential thought criminals. Who knows what information they will need in future to shut someone up or dissuade them from a course of action? So it is all stored away, ready to be used against you if your name is tagged or you speak to the wrong person or are in the wrong place.

    423. Thepnr says:

      Thought criminals hmmmm?

      Sounds about right.

    424. Paula Rose says:

      I’m getting some friends to join me – time’s up boys, girlie time soon.

    425. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The Bee Gees, ‘Alone’ –

    426. Thepnr says:

      Your up early Ian, “Morning” all old one from john king 🙂

    427. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –


      Up early rather than late right enough…

      Let’s have a special disco tonight – seeing as we’re nearing a new page (15k!) that should draw out PR and her entourage.


    428. Thepnr says:

      I’m up for that!

    429. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      OK, something that rattles my cage…

      Why do so many English-speaking people say something along the lines of, “I could of died!”, when what they actually mean is “I could have died!”?

      I just heard an actress from Downton uttering the “of” phrase on “The One Show”. You’d think that correct diction would be a qualification for becoming an ACTOR or an ACTRESS.

    430. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Onnyhoo, “Disco”

    431. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This popped into my heid today, out walking the dogs, as it does from time to time, and what a total joy, even remembering it. Loved it at first listen. Can’t think of anything else quite like it.

      This version uses the original video.

      Sparks, ‘This Town Ain’t Big Enough For Both Of Us’ –

    432. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      No comment on my “disco” track then? Efter you and Thepnr gittin’ a’ gushy aboot “disco” this moarnin’…

      Onnyhoo, this is probably my most favourite Sparks track in the world… EVER!

    433. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ian Dury & The Blockheads, ‘Sweet Gene Vincent’ (live) –

    434. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      I always watch the links you put up, but sometimes no comment is necessary!

      Demi Roussos was just too sad, as if he knew he was soon to outgrow his favourite kaftan. The German football one was just TOO Runriggish for them to go changing the words like that, and the Massacre of Glencoe one has been up before – surely ’twas yer good self who posted it? cause I can’t imagine two separate folk knowing about that and posting it here.

      Never fear BDTT, I always click your links with a mixture of curiosity and trepidation, but click them all the same!


      Rave on!


    435. Paula Rose says:

      I remember the first time Frank Sinatra sang this to me…

    436. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is for Paula Rose.

      Check out the dudes dancing, showing how it was done back in ’77.


      Baccara, ‘Sorry I’m A Lady’ –

    437. Paula Rose says:

      Continuing the “rose” theme…
      (I’ve got another 50)

    438. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If anyone knows of a lead singer with a more spectacular barnet than this dude, please don’t share. It does, however, have the considerable merit of drawing attention away from his coupon.

      Hi-NRG (*see what they’ve done there, eh? dae ye?*)& Silent Circle, ‘Touch In The Night’ –

    439. Ian Brotherhood says:

      WTF…this has had over 14 millions views, all by people drinking mushroom-tainted perry.

      Alphaville, ‘Sounds Like A Melody’ –

      P.S. I see Miss Rose has deigned to join us… 🙂

    440. Paula Rose says:

      Have I played a Dusty track yet?

    441. Paula Rose says:

      Oh – before I play my entire Dusty collection…

    442. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ah, Paula, with the Montand song you’ve reminded me of this brilliant movie, and – as I’m sure you know – the book is even better.

      ‘The Wages Of Fear!’

    443. Paula Rose says:

      All Dusty 45s now in piles of ten ready to load on the dansette – will play the lot unless…

    444. Paula Rose says:

      You are warned, I have many more. Back in two hours – off to watch a movie.

    445. Ian Brotherhood says:

      It may be communicating a brutally simple message, but hey, it’s funky! And it’s got an invisible moothie player!

      Funk on Friday! 😉

      Bad Boys Blue, ‘You’re A Woman, I’m A Man’ –

    446. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Aretha Franklin, ‘Rock Steady’, Soul Train Line 1971 –

    447. Ian Brotherhood says:

      When Don Cornelius (presenter of ‘Soul Train’) died, a flash-mob happened in New York.

      This isn’t some advertising stunt. Check out the cops – they don’t know what to do.

      Hopefully, this is a wee foretaste of what our own independence day will feel like. 🙂

      Here’s a wee bit of it:

    448. David says:

      Lipps, Inc. – “Funkytown” (1980)

      Meco – “Star Wars – Galactic Funk” (A long long time ago)

      Hmm, “Originally not inclined toward pop music, Meco’s heart changed when he heard Petula Clark’s “Downtown.” 🙂

    449. Thepnr says:

      Brilliant music, thanks for the laughs. I’m handing out medals.

      OK here are the results:

      Gold Medal: BDTT for Sparks Never Turn Your Back on Mother Earth

      Silver Medal: David for Lipps Inc. and Funkytown

      Bronze Medal: Ian for Baccara and Sorry I’m A Lady

      The just missed out prize is for Paula Rose for her favourite song.

      Dusty Springfield I Just Don’t Know What To Do With Myself

      Thanks to all, I watched everyone of them, was entertained and had a good laugh in the process. Cheers!

    450. Thepnr says:

      Hope you are OK with this. My contribution to the Disco theme 🙂

    451. Paula Rose says:

      Disco circa late seventies is for wimps… typical

    452. Thepnr says:

      Paula that was great, methinks you lived on the other side of the street.

      Listen to this, give it 90 seconds at least or you’ll miss the magic. It’s the voice that is magic.

    453. smithie says:

      Thepnr how the hell they sang that high?.Made me think way back to the first ever “Pop” record (45) my mother bought, and it also links into what Paula mentioned earlier re Dansette player lol.

    454. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Okay by me mister.


      Last night I got wind that I may be spending Christmas Day with my brother for the first time in over 30 years. It’s not definite yet, but if it comes off it’ll be a belter.

      That’s why I posted the Bee Gees track so early, just after hearing from him. Made me think about Barry Gibb – the guy still gigs, but it’s so wrenching seeing him onstage without his brothers. Doesn’t matter how loaded or famous the dude is, he must miss them terribly, and it just doesn’t seem ‘right’, him having to see them all off.

      I love the Bee Gees, and always will – they provided a soundtrack to so many lives, whether we liked them or not!

      🙁 🙂

    455. David says:

      Silver medal, yes! I’m First Runner-Up! Hmm, that could be a slogan for Kezia’s gang. 🙂

      And now, because it’s December, and Santa comes but once a year…

      The Goodies – “Father Christmas Do Not Touch Me”

    456. smithie says:

      Ian @ 10.58pm
      Don’t know the circumstances ( your business), but that sounds good, make it happen, lifes short.

    457. Thepnr says:


      I really hope you meet up with you brother this Xmas. Mine sadly passed away this year, I miss him. We have but one life.

    458. ahundredthidiot says:

      Time Peake is a scamming conartist

      Nae science, none, Nada, all gimmicks, tricks and state propaganda ‘being an astronaut is like being in the army’ – Jesus wept.

      All PR, all bullshit.

      Pilots are limited to how many times they can fly over polar caps due to increased radiation. At 36,000 feet.

      Humans 400 miles above earth in space my arse.
      People just keep sucking it up though.

    459. David says:

      “Now That’s What Wingers Call Music, Vol 1”

      From Funky hits to punky Slits;

      French kiss to a Jamaican miss;

      Sparks will fly for the Hi-NRG guys;

      From smooth soul to a Pogue’s tooth-hole;

      Sarstedt’s histrionics to Goodman’s symphonics;

      Windmills to space thrills;

      Three men on a bike, all the songs we like!

    460. call me dave says:

      Ah! Dusty Springfield got all her LPs in the vinyl and newer CDs for the car. Great voice ‘Colouring book’ is one I often play.

      Dropped in for a look and have enjoyed all the posts thanks for the memory jerkers. 🙂

      Can I leave these.

      Disco Hmm!

      Branigan. (short version)

      Heard this sung by the school choir tonight

      Carly Simon version.

    461. smithie says:

      ahundredthidiot, we ken that, dinnae fash yersell.
      It don’t register at all wi me.

    462. Paula Rose says:

      For every man I’ve ever met through Wings…

    463. Thepnr says:


      Loved My Boy Lollypop, truly it was a brilliant reminder of my youth.

      No idea what ahundredthidiot is on on about either but he is starting to get on my tits.

      You listening?

    464. smithie says:

      Thepnr, cant speak for him/her but i have been there as we all have, “Frustration”. We see a clear path ahead and why do naysayers vote the way they do ffs. Letting off a bit of steam i suppose. Thank God for Wings.

    465. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose

      I hear you, the words of that song, for how you say you feel were brilliant. I feel the same.

      I’m going to listen again, just to get it right in my head. Though I know I got it right first time.


    466. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Paula Rose ah wisht you hud telt me you liked Lollypops ,ah keep a jar at the door of Maryhill Foodbank fur the bairns mind, but ah kin make a exception fur you n Thepnr VIMTO WANS lol

    467. David says:

      Everyone get on the Wings dancefloor!

      Jock Scot of Yew Choob – “On the underground”
      (Parody version of The Jam’s “Going underground”)

    468. smithie says:

      Lolz here’s how Kevin Bridges looks at it,

    469. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Welcome back Ronnie. Where did you disappear to you old cnut LOL.

    470. smithie says:

      David, You asking?

    471. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Thepnr ah didna disappear anywhere ah lookin aw the time Im very busy with Maryhill Foodbank aw week, an a lookin at Indycamp at weekend .KNackered but still gon.

      Al shows you who cracks the whip ,its no jist Paula Rose you,s know lol.

    472. Paula Rose says:

      Kicks off heels – bops to Yew Choob – flings arms around ronnie anderson.

    473. smithie says:

      Ronnie, respect for what you do.

    474. Paula Rose says:

      Gosh – that was fun – love dancing with ronnie anderson.

    475. Paula Rose says:

      Back off babes xx

    476. Paula Rose says:

      Warning – I have 50 Dusty tracks…

    477. Paula Rose says:


    478. Paula Rose says:


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