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Wings Over Scotland

Not waving but drowning

Posted on August 31, 2014 by

So worn-down are we by the job of scrutinising Scotland’s exhaustingly terrible media for three years for you, our beloved readers, that we often can’t bring ourselves to watch current-affairs shows live any more, steeling ourselves to catch up with them on iPlayer only if people say there was something of particular note on them.

We’re glad we didn’t miss this, though. Because it might be the case that no politician in human history has ever been as hopelessly, pitiably, comically out of his depth as Willie Rennie was on this morning’s Sunday Politics Scotland.

For some time now we’ve been pointing out that there’s absolutely no inherent connection between the cost of government borrowing and that paid by individuals for domestic loans like mortgages – the rate the government pays for money doesn’t affect whether you can afford the repayments on your mortgage or your new car or not, so why would your interest rate change?

Typically, the questions we raise on this site are never asked by the mainstream media, but today Gordon Brewer picked that particular ball up and ran with it, and the hapless Lib Dem leader was catastrophically unprepared for the challenge.

Clearly expecting to just trot out the standard “Better Together” line that independence would make mortgages more expensive, when Brewer actually asked him to explain the connection poor Willie had nothing, and he then proceeded to comprehensively demonstrate that fact over two gloriously toe-curling minutes of television.

“The cost will go up because the cost will go up! Our reputation would be trashed!”, he repeated over and over, floundering and stammering and trying to giggle his way out of Brewer’s innocently insistent interrogation, praying for the allotted interview time to be up. It’s magnificent viewing. We invite you to enjoy it all evening, as we may be doing.

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    272 to “Not waving but drowning”

    1. Croompenstein says:

      Come on Stu ‘the experts’ said it was true so it’s true 🙂

    2. Dcanmore says:

      It doesn’t take much, Brewer’s not even scratching the surfice when scrutinising the claim. But hey-ho if Better Together/No Thanks/UKOK thinks it is acceptable to put up an over-promoted toon cooncillur to answer questions of national importance then for fool them. Brewer wasn’t even breaking sweat for once.

    3. Chris Silver says:

      I am right cos I am , no cos I say I am, it’s not a difficult concept to understand my reputation will be enhanced because I’ll be right because I am.

      No w everyone will just think I am a knob and they’ll be right because mad myself look stupid thats ok as I am not the political representtive of a constituency who require that person to inform them on the issues.

      This was as incoherent as Gordon Brewer’s interview with JoLa on the benefits of devo nano . Have they any credibility left no wonder BT supporters think they are too wee, too stupid as they listen to these people.

    4. Rockysboy says:

      Love watching him squirm , he’s a want to be ,that just spouts off what he’s been told to say.,,

    5. David S Briggs says:

      God Wullie, go and sit in a corner and hide your head.

    6. Pam McMahon says:

      Good on ye, Gordon Brewer, for being an actual journalist for once, and not a BBC Scotland toady for once in your sad recent career. Surely the pathetic hirpling of the No side in this debate must be making some kind of belated impact on BBC Scotland employees, if not their corporate-mindset management?

    7. thoughtsofascot says:

      A rat chasing his own tail. Sums up the modern day libdems in a nutshell. He creates a strawman premise and then proceeds to form a circular argument around that strawman premise. Spectacular fail by the forgettable one.

    8. todayinscotland says:

      Sorry for bludgeoning this to death….

      New post, please share

      A Hard Rains A Gonna Fall, Part 2

      todayinscotland | The Referendum Blues

    9. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Silly man. He should’ve stuck to making comedy movies, like this one:

    10. frankieboy says:

      Chancin’ basturt. I feel better now I said out loud.

    11. JWil says:

      I hope there is more of this. It’s about time these charlatan’s were exposed for what they are.

      Depending on the question, (or, more likely, whatever the question) at FMQs when it returns, Salmond should easily be able to tear Willie’s arguments to pieces.

    12. heedtracker says:

      Another day, another UKOK fraudster in action. If we lose to these guys.

    13. schrodinger's cat says:

      why does rennie remind me of oor wullie?

    14. Stuart Black says:

      Ah yes, those wonderful “experts”. What would the Better Together No Eggs Thanks Nob Orders do without them? What a woeful and pathetic little man Willie Rennie is too.

      On a much more pleasant note, picked up a consignment of Wee Blue Books and, by sheer accident, passed the Yes Anniesland stall on the way home, stopped to see if they needed any, and they took 300 off my stock to keep them going.

      Good work, by the way, guys, nice to meet you.

    15. schrodinger's cat says:

      brewer does seem more critical than others, especially that smith women who doesnt even try to be unbiased

    16. JWil says:

      I wonder if Gordon Brewer met Derek Bateman for a little chat recently?

    17. JWil says:

      “why does rennie remind me of oor wullie?”

      More likely, Stan Laurel. Especially the comic cuts.

    18. Dick Gaughan says:

      “That’s what the experts tell us”, says Wullie.

      Ah, right, I’m glad we cleared that up.

      Would they be the same experts who insisted that the Titanic was unsinkable?

    19. Alex says:

      My partner just asked: who’s he? I said he’s a wee eejit who constantly shows his bias on the BBC.

      And Willie Rennie’s not much better!

    20. Jon D says:

      Jeez. Scotland needs and deserves so much better than this.

      Better Together clown after clown after clown…

      Barely 3 weeks left to wake up to their lies, hypocrisy obfuscation, chicanery, deceit, arrogance, contempt and utter disregard for upstanding, striving Scots.

      C’mon Scotland. How many examples do we need of the extent to which the Rennies, Lamonts, Browns and Baillies are the lackey’s of the Tory’s.

      What in Gods name does it take to realise the importance of a YES vote?

    21. Viking Girl says:

      If you were a Lib Dem, stuck in a relationship with the Tories, losing your vote everywhere, your credibility lost and with no chance of a showing in the next Election, you’d be blithering and blethering yourself. Time for Wullie to go and lie down in a darkened room

    22. Kenneth Shaw says:

      Breathtaking ineptitude for all to see . As soon as someone says ‘that’s what the experts say ‘ you know the games up.

    23. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here he is, before he became a square:

    24. Nana Smith says:

      Oh dear. Looks as if Rennie got a good trashing. Do I see a tear in his eye?

    25. R-type Grunt says:

      Surely at the moment Scotland has no reputation to “trash”, or did I miss us becoming independent?

    26. @Ian Brotherhood

      That looks more like Dunc.

    27. liz says:

      Willie Rennie would be laughable if he wasn’t such an odious lying toad.

    28. les Wilson says:

      JWil says:

      Ha, you might be right about that, the same gormless look!

    29. Mike Robertson says:

      I find the Lib Dem hilarious. All their B.S about ‘federalsim’ yet they don’t want independence… what a joke of a party.

    30. Hughiedoc78 says:

      I was watching it and initially felt that Gordon Brewer was rude and seemed to interrupt the FM way too much but I felt he was equally the same with Willie Rennie who was just way out of his depth….

    31. les Wilson says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ha, laughed at that, again, there is a gormless look!

    32. manandboy says:

      Willie Rennie:

      If the stakes weren’t so high, I’d take pity on him.

      Another Tory in Lib Dem clothing muttering his lines

      without knowing his subject.

      This gibbering dim-wit, riding the gravy train, disgracing

      himself, his party and his Parliament.

      The only consolation is that he hasn’t long to go.

    33. Johnny says:

      Surely no-one can believe this tripe? The effort being put into trying to kid individuals on that they would be held responsible for government debt is mind-blowing. Moreover, to take just one of his examples, the insurance companies fall all over themselves to sell to people at the monent. Yes, they don’t mind fleecing people when they can get away with it, but they will still be doing their business in a market against other providers and will have to offer competitive rates!

    34. heedtracker says:

      Brewer can see what’s coming and after all he’s done to attack Scottish democracy, now he’s thrown in the towel. Too little, way too late Sweaty.

    35. T222Deracha says:

      O/t but needs a wider audience, Craig Murray pulls no punches:

    36. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Time for another run-out for this old favourite:

    37. Willie has a cassette recorder instead of any grey cells.

    38. Scotsbob says:

      If you can’t answer the question because the PR boys haven’t given you “lines to say” then just keep on telling lies.

    39. Luigi says:

      Willie, Willie, Willie. Oh Dearie, dearie me. You have even managed to surpass yourself this time. A new personal best. What a complete dope.

      There is stiff competition, but surely you are:

      BT’s number one clown

    40. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      John McTernan said earlier to Gordon Brewer that Scotland would need one million immigrants

    41. Luigi says:

      Willie Rennie would be out of his depth in a paddling pool.

    42. gus1940 says:

      Brewer is a changed man since PQ scrapped Newsnight Scotland.

      I find him now to be the fairest by far of all BBC Scotland’s journalists both on The Sunday Politics and when he chairs Brian’s Big Debate.

      I would even go so far as to say that he is showing signs of some sympathy towards the cause of YES.

    43. fred blogger says:

      he even implied that every thing in the white paper is irreversible in a public meeting with tommy sheridan.
      it beggars belief the poor quality of some msp’s, it’s beyond words.

    44. Croompenstein says:

      @Nana – Flipper should have been detained at HM pleasure the man is a criminal.

    45. Jim says:

      This guy is comedy gold but I would expect little else from a man sired by the frozen sperm of Stan Laurel.

    46. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Alex Salmond wants him as part of team Scotland after a YES vote. To make the tea! Personally I don’t think he could handle it.

    47. bookie from hell says:

      He smiles while saying Scotland will be trashed,weird

    48. Luigi says:

      O/T another delicious BT irony: Model in BT leaflet comes out as a supporter of Scottish independence!

    49. Nana Smith says:


      Agreed and a lot of others including Brown.

      The herald are running the old scare stories this afternoon, Start up costs for iScotland 2.4billion. BT no hopers have nothing left.

    50. Grouse Beater says:

      I witnessed it.

      The again, Scotland was ‘led’ by such weak politicians for generations who were led in turn by Westminster and Whitehall.

    51. Grouse Beater says:

      Brewer does seem more critical than others

      But he’s not yet reached the consistency of the Sunday Herald in comparison to the weekly Herald.

    52. Quentin Quale says:

      The inane warblings of a man who has suddenly realised that the game is up.

    53. Clarinda says:

      Just wondering how on earth is Holyrood business going to operate after a YES vote. Will the unionists claim they abstained from voting. What will they do when their WM minders cannot prompt them in their anti-YES mode – will they really be likely to support the negotiating phase and debates in Scotland’s best interests. What happens to the representation of those who voted NO?

      Seriously, all governments need a competent Opposition …. ?time for the SNP to appoint a Devil’s Advocate Secretary from their own ranks – at least we might be re-assured of an intelligent and challenging political filtering process. In time let’s hope a further competent government may encourage capable people to enter politics from a variety of perspectives and experiences.

    54. No no no...Yes says:

      Willie Rennie and the Lib Dems have been on about Federalism for 100 years and have delivered nothing. This man is the LEADER of the Lib Dems in Scotland! Even Tavish was better than this…

      Lib Dems= failure

      Gordon Brewer is actually doing the job expected of him. He is more prepared than most of his erstwhile colleagues and actually cross examines his interviewees. If you are inept he will have you!

      I think he is compiling a list of greatest political car crashes. I wonder, is Ruth next?

    55. Grouse Beater says:

      When Unionists see their argument evaporating before their eyes under cross-examination they fall back on implying the advice they give quotes unnamed ‘expert’s’ – or put another way, a big boy told them and then ran away.

    56. fred blogger says:

      it’s actually insulting.
      a panel of experts told me, i ‘pect it’s the same panel of experts who said universal credit was a good idea etc etc.
      lamont is always referring to expert reports, that she must check out when the meeting is over.
      they are vacuous.

    57. Grouse Beater says:

      The weekly Herald remains loyal to the prejudices of its football fans. Sunday Herald claims circulation figures risen since it backed Yes.

      Do you think the message will get through to the Scotsman?

    58. Murray McCallum says:

      Though almost non existent, there was only one reputation getting trashed in that interview.

    59. HandandShrimp says:

      I feel a bit sorry for Rennie. Basically as last man standing he had to take on the role of Liberal leader but he is so out of his depth that it is embarrassing.

      Brewer was right to pressure him though. Rennie had nothing to say other than a soundbite. A soundbite he doesn’t really understand.

    60. Helena Brown says:

      As my former MP, no I never voted for him nor have I for his successor I have to say that any muppet can go down to London and vanish into Westminster. This one was good at keeping his constituents informed though nowadays I would actually have to do some checking up on what he sent. The latest Unionist doesn’t even bother but then he probably thinks he needn’t bother being ahem “Scottish” Labour. I have not got around to listening to this particular bad performance, but considering his lack lustre attempts week after week in the Parliament what can you say.

    61. Albaman says:

      Wullie, Wullie,
      Away from politics, your a nice enough fella, but stick to practising for next years Kelty coal sack race!!.

    62. Macsenex says:

      UK lenders view Scotland as a lower risk than rUK because our house prices are lower, our loan to values damping borrowed are lower . Our bad debt book proportionately is lower. Indeed at the CML conference in London two years ago they said that the reaspn they won’t consider better borrowing terms is that they operate a single market in the UK.

      While interest rates may not be lower in an independent Scotland the arrangement fees from which lenders make their money on a loan may be.

    63. Rookiescot says:

      Which experts?

    64. heedtracker says:

      Willies not out of his depth, he just struggles to lie on camera, in front of the tens of BetterTogether BBC viewers in the Scotlandshire region.

      For a good unionist time, I like to call my Slovene girlfriend, Professor Aliesbadas Tomkins, BetterTogether Slovenia branch. She gives really good UKOK and now demands we vote NO because Scotland cannot and will not be allowed to use the currency of a “foreign power” and it’s illegal you see. Takes about 4000 words to get there but Aliesbadas knows how to hit that throbbing UKOK unionist spot.

      So watch out for this, England is now “foreign power” waffle, pouring out of every UKOK media hole.

    65. joe kane says:

      The Salmondator eggsterminating MP Chicken Jim Murphy on Sky News this morning –
      Yes Campaign Accused Of ‘Sinister’ Mobbery

    66. Helena Brown says:

      Clarinda @ 5.23 Have to agree and we have been short changed since the Parliament was reconvened by people who should have known better. We have the ahem “Father of the Nation” to blame for Labour, he chose people who should never have been available for some Community Council. Good god he even turned down Denis Cananvan. The Liberals knew that this was a poisoned chalice and ergo oor wee Willie, because nobody wanted it.
      Surely we deserve better. I am a member of the SNP and I recognise we need a principled opposition, but where are we going to get one, not soon enough I fear.

    67. Mark McG says:

      What worries me, [pass the tea dear], is that the BT side are going to become so desperate in the next few weeks they will say and do literally anything to discredit a mainly reputable opposing campaign because they themselves have nothing but “dinnae leave :'[” and “oor reputation’ll be doooomed”. I heard earlier today that a Yes hub had been burned out, a Yes supporter was assaulted, both in glasgow and we’re getting pelters for a random egg thrown by a mystery man who’s fizzog is all over the internet. THIS is project Fear.

    68. heedtracker says:

      Actually it’s not just that Wulle is a hopeless liar, it’s that he can’t even begin to argue that it is possible that borrowing costs may go up, just as they might go down or stay the same as now. But even that’s beyond him.

    69. HandandShrimp says:


      I suspect Albie bores the bejaysus out of the Unionist posters too. The posts are unbearably dull.

    70. Clootie says:

      Willie you can still save face. Resign now and say you are ashamed of your remarks and attempts to mislead the public.

      Do it now and we may still forgive you.

      One last question “How do you sleep at night?”

    71. Thepnr says:

      O/T The threat to research funding has surfaced again in the Guardian. This lot really have ran out of ideas.

    72. heedtracker says:

      I mind Mags Curran on the Daily politics show 2 or 3 years ago, monstering the austerity national debt/ deficit mess ConDem style but Neil says to her, “how much has Osborne increased or decreased borrowing” and she had no idea.

      It’s hardly out of left field journo stuff and Neil was pretty easy on her but her extremely well paid job is opposition shadow cabinet, yet here she was going on a live politics TV show watched by tens of people and without any of the most basic economic facts. Scary and laughable, UKOK.

      To be fair, oor Mags didn’t even try to wing it, she froze like a deer in the headlights, wearing a bleach blonde wig.

    73. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      I just looked up sychophant in the dictionary and there was a pic of an insipid gutless excuse of a libdem. It really must be humiliating to be wee wullie rennie.

    74. bjsalba says:

      The only way Scotland’s reputation can be trashed is a No vote.

    75. To be honest, I’m not sure Rennie is even sufficiently clued up and well briefed to realise he was out of his depth. He’s always been no more than a lightweight opportunist. It shows what a sorry state the Lib Dems are in at Holyrood that he ended up as leader.

    76. Fiona says:

      What is surprising is that it is perfectly clear they are handed slogans/sound bites and they do not do what the rest of us do: that is check out what is being claimed and find out if it has any validity. Certainly a lot of information is provided for us here: but most contributors do a lot of digging for themselves. Since none of us have a platform on MSM and none of us do this for a living it is not unreasonable to expect that those who do should at least take the trouble to understand the argument they are putting forward. They appear to be quite lazy, at best

      I have absolutely no interest in listening to someone who thinks “experts say” is an adequate response to anything at all. It would not get you through an school essay with a pass mark.

    77. heedtracker says:

      @ HandandShrimp, is Prof Aleaibadas a angry unionist joke or something far worse though. This is Scottish uni funding being handed to a unionist arguing in the most extreme terms for No but at want point does political extremism cross over into the lecture theatres and the streets and all paid for by you and me?

    78. Dcanmore says:

      O/T apologies if this has already been posted…

      Banksy has entered the referendum debate:

    79. Papadox says:

      Who in heavens name voted for these BT ignoramuses, liars and fraudsters? They have no policies no plans just venom and that appears to be what the BT voters are willing to vote for.

      And don’t forget the Westminster masters are going to give you a good kicking once you vote for them. BT = BLOODY THICK.

      Wee Wullies just a joke.

    80. fred blogger says:

      this is probably the 1st time that they have received an in depth public scrutiny.

    81. IcySpark says:

      BBC have finally posted the story regarding the woman being kicked in the stomach by the BNP activist.

      2 BIG issues with it. Firstly it’s hidden in Glasgow news. Secondly, it could easily be read that it was a Yes supporter that committed the assault.

      Absolutely ridiculous BBC. Be very ashamed. Murphy gets top billing on BBC and wall to wall coverage in the MSM with ‘evil yes mobs’, yet this story is hidden away and no mention of it being a No assaulter. SHOCKING!!!

    82. Black Douglas says:

      O/T but this is how the BBC report the attack on the lady in Glasgow yesterday by a Britannica member.

      Truly shocking reporting. 😡

    83. to Nana Smith – thanx for those two links.

      £40 BILLION bailout for HBoS from LSL. (US).
      £25 BILLION bailout from Krash and Darkling.
      Illegal Rights Issue at £4 billion.

      Barnett Consequentials = £6.5 billion from Scotland.

      Krash and Flipper are signally silent.?

    84. Douglas Macdonald says:

      Ever since Gordon Brewer interviewed Johann Lamont some months ago about her income tax policy/proposals, I have since felt that he is probably a closet Yes supporter. With each successive interview with a No campaign politician since then, he has gradually confirmed my view.

    85. G H Graham says:

      If one is sitting on a mountain of cash, like a bank for example, there are only so many ways to make money. Here’s the main ones.

      Equities (shares), commodities (oil, gold, sugar, coal etc), bonds (usually Sovereign debt), property, retail lending (debt) & the usual bullshit transaction fees in return for sending you junk mail every month.

      So if a bank is in competition to lend me money & having assessed the risk, it is at liberty to compete for my loan. And it will charge a rate of interest for that loan taking into account said risk, the term, the amount, the competition & of course some costs in creating & managing the loan. Fair enough.

      But the rate I am charged has nothing to do with how much the government chooses to borrow or indeed the yield it offers on its gilt edged securities (bonds).

      Today, the Treasury is up to its neck in £1.3 trillion of debt, continues to spend about £2 billion per week MORE than it receives in taxes & it seems highly unlikely it will ever pay it down. Osborne forecasts he wont even balance the books until at least 2019.

      But none of that has any bearing on the contract for a loan between me and my bank.

    86. HandandShrimp says:

      Black Douglas

      It is a shocking report and I see the BBC are light on details. I am sure I read somewhere that the lady is a Yes supporter and that she was kicked by the male No supporter.

    87. Dorothy Devine says:

      Black Douglas , I suspect the BBBC will pay a heavy price for this one day .

      Not only is their credibility completely trashed but I expect to see mass licence fee defection , they deserve everything that comes their way.

      I am truly disgusted.

    88. Marco McGinty says:

      A bit O/T, but as an amateur naturalist (that’s NATURALIST!), I do get slightly annoyed when various animals are used as an insult to humans.

      I know for a fact that toads and weasels are of vital importance to the environment, so comparing the likes of Rennie to a toad or weasel is a tremendous insult to the amphibians and mustelids of the world.

    89. Correction to previous post-

      Barnett Consequentials = £6.5 billion surrepticiously,sleekitly STOLEN from Scotland`s Budget by a Scottish PM (Krash) and his Scottish Chancellor (Darkling).

      Why do some pensioners still believe these two rats.

    90. Black Douglas says:

      STV are no better looks like they just copied and pasted the BBC jackanoray.

    91. Dr Ew says:

      A furious Malcolm Tucker sent an incandescent Jamie Macdonald to escort Oor Wullie back in the taxi.

      Quoth Jamie to Wullie: “You… You don’t deserve to LIVE!”

    92. davidb says:

      This is just a variation on the old currency nonsense theme. Look at this

      and they did default on their loans – we haven’t and will not be doing so.

      I do wonder how English voters will feel if the upshot of the negotiations their politicians conduct leave them saddled with a debt that Scotland was prepared to contribute to. They risk backing themselves into a position they cannot climb down from. They stand by the debt and we truly are Scot free. Bet Farage has a field day with that!

      Might I suggest Mr Rennie be directed to watch “Its A Wonderful Life”. I will not be depositing funds with foreign banks after independence. Many Scots have deposits in “British” banks, but that game’s a bogey after ID.

      Not everyone lives in debt. Banks are not exclusively funded by international money markets. Retail loans are a function of many things, but as a former mortgagee and bemused observer of Wonga loan rates, I long since abandoned any notion that base rates had much of a weighting. Greed probably scores higher.

    93. John H. says:

      I can understand why Alex Salmond wants to include politicians from other parties in negotiations after a Yes vote. To heal the wounds, show a united front and all that.But, apart from their obvious untrustworthiness to fight for Scotland with any conviction, how can we allow such incompetent fools such as Rennie anywhere near such important talks?

      Lamont’s another one.Can you imagine her, or stairheid rammy, speaking for the Scottish people? Or Jackie Bailley?Alex Salmond will be hard pushed to find any among the present generation of Scottish unionist politicians who are capable of doing such an important job.In many ways his problems will just begin with a Yes victory.

    94. NickR says:

      I just don’t get this “costs of borrowing would go up” if we don’t take on our share of the UK debt regardless, apparently, of whether we get our share of the assets also. I am an accountant involved in insolvency work and my experience tells me that the cost of borrowing is very much attached to the lender’s perception of your ability to repay. In my book, the share of liabilities we take on is very much related to the share of assets we get. If the UK withhold certain assets, such as access to the £4/500 billion reserves of the Bank of England, of course we will take less debt.

      That is just commercial common sense which would be recognised by any lender. Being financially astute is generally recognised as a plus by most lenders.

      If, however, we don’t take on the debt because RUK wants to shoot itself in the foot, what we have is a clean start with huge natural resources. Why would any lender see us as a bad risk?

    95. fred blogger says:

      for those who missed indyref midweek review, like myself, here it is.

    96. Dr Ew says:

      To those saying Gordon Brewer is a “closet Yes supporter” and suchlike, I have no idea of the man’s politics. What I do know is this: He and his colleagues at the BBC and in the media at large have been wilfully neglect in their scrutiny of the Better Together campaign assertions.

      Editorial stances in a free press are one thing, decent standards of journalism are another. Both are something else again when it comes to a state-funded broadcaster. The Rev Stu may disagree, but for me Wings most fundamental message is less about about Scottish independence than demanding and demonstrating higher standards of journalism.

      In this clip we see Mr Brewer doing his job properly – not for the first time, I acknowledge – and just look at the results. That’s all we’ve ever asked of them.

    97. fred blogger says:

      a yes hub in glasgow is reported to be on fire!

    98. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Personally I think there should no place as we move forward for any of the self servers leading or playing a complicit part in the anti independence behaviour of our unionist opponents.
      There are a number of notables who used to be in the management of these parties or bodies who have already declared for independence and they are welcome.

      As long as folk keep electing some people we can’t do a lot about them but I would be completely ruthless with quango board members, BBC management, hired hands on publicly funded bodies and educational establishments and the like who are trying to frustrate us. Jotters for the lot of them at whatever cost. It’s a new country we are trying to build. We need to be rid of deadweights at the very beginning.

      No mercy.

    99. Free Scotland says:

      Big Tam: Listen, Willie, if ye eat 3 slice o’ beetroot and two tunnocks caramel wafers, then wash it doon wi a glass o’ watter fae the River Doon, yer libido will rocket and ye’ll be like a randy wee 17-yr auld again.

      Willie: Listen, Tam, that is just a load o’ utter guff.

      Big Tam: Ah’m tellin’ ye. It’s whit the experts say.

      Willie: Oh, well, when ye put it like that. Right, that’s it. I’m going to give it a go.

    100. Proud Cybernat says:

      Willie and wife take a trip to the seaside to watch man waving, not drowning:

    101. Snode1965 says:

      Regarding the quality of Holyrood opposition and who would be fit for team Scotland after aYES vote. First on the list will be Henry McLeish. He has made all the right noises without jumping ship and his experience will be invaluable.

    102. liz says:

      Murphy gets more odious by the day,

      The man is a pathological liar and I loved the faux outrage of Murnaghan ‘but he said’ – he shrieked.

      Murphy claiming that 100s of protesters turned up – I don’t think he had 100 in total.

      In fact he seems to have an obsession with the number 100.

      He is ramping it up big time and I am very afraid of a false flag operation – the British have history in that dept.

      Try to suggest to all Yesers – keep well away.

    103. Johnny says:

      Nana Smith @ 7:42

      Jeezo. If I had a pound for every time I had heard or read a Labour politician saying they knew they could not be complacent before going on to be exactly that…..

    104. Andy Murie says:

      unfortunately some people watching this halfwit believe what he says.

    105. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      I went along to a Lib Dem event with Ming the merciless and our MP a few weeks ago. It was great – lots of ex Lib-dem folk ripped the MPs apart. Probably about 1/3 were very angry Lib-Dems who felt their party had let them down very badly.
      I had to opportunity to go to a similar meeting with Willie Rennie but I did not go. He would have torn apart by theses ex party members.
      Ming still holds quite a lot of respect but Rennie is just a complete clown.

      O/T was at the Edinburgh Mela this afternoon. Great event – displaying the multicultural nature of Scotland at it best. Lots of Yes stickers and badges on all ages, genders and people from all the different cultures.

      BT no thanks nowhere to be seen so well done Yes North & Leith a great result.

      We are going to win this!

    106. mr thms says:

      #liz says:

      Murphy gets more odious by the day


      i agree

    107. ronnie anderson says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill and the 1st of those said people should be the Electorial Commission,& other than those that have declared as Yes certainly no deadbeats. Mc Leish or any of the present.

    108. Doug Daniel says:

      I love the way he shakes his head while saying “it’s simple”. A sure-fire sign that someone’s lying. It’s your body saying “the words coming out of my mouth just now are wrong.”

    109. mr thms says:

      Watch the man on the left.

      He is looking to his right, shaking his head.

      He seems to be saying ‘No’, followed by ‘Do it now!’

      Moments later the eggs are thrown

      I can’t post the full link from you tube

      but this is end part v=GYdp-BgGkr8

      The really odd thing is that clip has had several comments and no one has noticed.

      What does everyone else think?

    110. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T (Apologies)

      Overheard bits of a conversation with one of Scotland’s press hacks whilst out for lunch with my wife this afternoon.

      I recognised the guy’s face but couldn’t remember his name. Anyway, he was speaking with some other chap and I am sure he said “The Herald coming out for YES.” Now, I may have misheard–he may have said “Sunday Herald” but I am sure I did not hear the word “The Sunday”. I’m sure I heard “The Herald”.

      As I said, I could be wrong but I guess we’ll know soon enough.

    111. bjsalba says:

      O/T but there is a particularly entertaining cartoon which mentions Wings over at

    112. Thepnr says:

      England is being prepped for a Yes by their media. Slowly but surely you will be reading much more about how the gap is narrowing, Yes is a possibility we can’t ignore ect.

      Truth is the No campaign have blew it and now comes the blame apportioning. Wasn’t me Guv!

    113. Nana Smith says:


      Just read your comment on the guardian piece.

      Well said as always.

    114. piggy says:

      Nothing to offer, no creative thought or will.
      Decaying and stagnant.
      The more they are heard and seen, the will of the Scottish people grows greater.
      Another example of anxiously scrambling to a media outlet and revealing all that was previously hidden.
      The lights are on, it’s a horror show for them, and they cannot stop it.
      They really wan’t to crawl away now but they can’t. I’m sure they accept deep inside in their quieter moments that the nation knows they are being deceitful to them.
      Their road is getting a little stormy and thorny now and some are becoming desperate.
      We watch and listen calmly.
      This site is a credit to our country for keeping us truthfully informed.

    115. Tam Jardine says:

      Gordon Brewer has taken a few scalp, most notably JoLa – I respect the guy and I think that he does a pretty good job, obviously under considerable pressure from above. We could have done with more like him. I never wanted obviously pro-independence journalists, just an even handed and rigorous approach.

      As for Alex inviting Darling onto Team Scotland – the chances of it happening are fairly slim but it was a masterstroke. It said “I want what’s best for Scotland regardless of what has gone before… do you?”

      Having said that, if it’s a choice between fozzie, Rennie and Darling on 1 hand and Ivan McKee – there is no choice. I wouldnae rely on Willie Rennie as ballast never mind to negotiate a favourable settlement with rUK.

      in fairness to Willie, and JoLa they have played their part in the struggle for independence in their own way through their own ineptitude. It would have been a significantly harder task were there a competent opposition challenging the SNP at Holyrood and we may not have arrived in this blessed position without them.

    116. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      its difficult to decide who is the worst liar, sneerer and smearer but for me its Jaws Galloway.

    117. Cag-does-thinking says:

      To be fair to Gordon Brewer, he did a similar thing a while back to Jo La and left her gasping for air too on devo max proposals. I tend to think he does let them off the hook a bit but it’s a bit like watching a cat playing with a mouse. We know who has the power.

    118. Footsoldier says:

      “Calm down dear”. With 18 days left, the BBC is not going to change. In fact it will get worse.

      Many moons ago the captains of industry and the British establishment including BBC, ITV ,Sky etc will have got together to discuss strategy. The people are not stupid but very fired up & the establishment is deeply worried.

      When you see how ineptly the British establishment has run the No campaign here at home, is it any wonder the UK foreign policy is a quagmire. They don’t understand the home crowd never mind all these foreigners.

      Too late for them to climb out of their wee parochial bubble.

    119. macart763m says:


      Just wow.

      Does his minders know he gets out on his own every now and again? 😀

    120. Jim says:

      Is that the mouse that roared? lol

    121. JWil says:

      They showed a small (a very small) snippet of Willie’s contribution on the BBC Scotland News. Probably the only snippet they could have used to avoid his embarrassment.

    122. John Walsh says:

      He knows the eggs are coming his minders don’t go behind him after the first egg is thrown . 20 seconds in he says “sorry about that” as egg hits someone, why is HE sorry?
      but this is end part v=GYdp-BgGkr8 he knows where the second egg is coming from ,ducked it ! Then gets a pat on the back with the third egg. MI5 man disappears up a convenient stair.. Totally staged.

      The really odd thing is the guy has vanished from the face of the earth.spooks

      What does everyone else think?

    123. Neil says:

      Scotland’s reputation would be trashed? He does not represent anyone except his own “half empty pint glass”. He opitomises what a nation of rogues looks like.

    124. JWil says:

      BBC Scotland had yet another glitch on the Sunday Politics. They can have perfect transmissions from London or the other side of the world, but they cannot get a decent one from the N of Scotland. It always happens when Salmond is being interviewed. Funny that!

    125. The Earthshaker says:

      off topic, but this needs flagging up, our sock puppet Labour Welsh First Minister is spouting more BT propoganda and expressing concern for the tone of the campaign after Jim Murphy being egged

      Use google translate for the exact welsh translation of the comments, but basically they are pointing out that Alex Salmond’s death threat man was found guilty and YES supporters have been attacked and was he going to condemn that as well?

    126. mr thms says:

      # John Walsh

      Thanks for looking at the clip. It’s lasts for one minute But so much information. How come no one had noticed the man on the left giving the go ahead moments before eggs are thrown from the direction of the three Yes placards?

    127. JWil says:

      Murphy always reminds me of the man who designed the atom bomb, Robert Oppenheimer. “I am become death, the destroyer of worlds”.

    128. Pam McMahon says:

      Thank God – Nigel Farage and UKIP are going to defend Jim Murphy from any more omletting, when he comes out from under his bed and gets back on his wee box. It’s on the BBC Scotland news (politics) website. Sorry, I don’t do links.
      If Murphy is embarrassed now, after his greetin’ reaction to an egg, how much more embarrassed will he be being surrounded and supported by even more right-wing heavies. No, you’re right. not very

    129. O/T
      Sorry ,but have been missing the posts of @Lesley-Anne hopefully nothing erroneous.

    130. Chic McGregor says:

      “off topic, but this needs flagging up, our sock puppet Labour Welsh First Minister is spouting more BT propoganda and expressing concern for the tone of the campaign after Jim Murphy being egged”
      Hope there was a rendition of “We’ll keep a well done in the hillside.” 😉

    131. Grouse Beater says:

      In interior motivation there is a fascinating similarity with Murphy’s self-imposed Munro baggin’ hustings march – a redundant objective, a predicable, overwhelming failure – and the discredited Rector of Stiffkey, Harold Davidson.

      He was defrocked for immorality and, either comepelled to protest his innocence, or as an act of redemption, took to travelling the length and bridth of England on village hall podiums and sideshows dressed only in a wooden beer barrel, proclaiming the injustice heaped upon him.

      ‘I come before thee naked as I was born.’

      Were Murphy’s personality not so shadow-like, bordering on the waxwork, I’d write a blog comparing the two.

      The dear old Rector ended his days tragically on Blackpool pier, still clothed in his barrel, still pontificating to jeering crowds, only to be devoured by a lion that shared his stage, both confined to a cage.

      Murphy’s noble foolishness is set to be devoured by the lion of Scotland.

    132. Chic McGregor says:

      “Thank God – Nigel Farage and UKIP are going to defend Jim Murphy from any more omletting, when he comes out from under his bed and gets back on his wee box. It’s on the BBC Scotland news (politics) website. Sorry, I don’t do links.
      If Murphy is embarrassed now, after his greetin’ reaction to an egg, how much more embarrassed will he be being surrounded and supported by even more right-wing heavies. No, you’re right. not very”
      Didn’t they use ‘Farage balloons’ during the war to prevent incoming? Something like that.

    133. Chic McGregor says:

      “Murphy’s noble foolishness is set to be devoured by the lion of Scotland.”

      Live by lyin’, die by lion.

    134. Capella says:

      How circumspect the BBC can be when it involves an assault on a YES supporter. No mention of the relevant facts at all!
      They have no photographer or film crew there on this occasion. But others did take photos

    135. Croompenstein says:

      @Scot – I asked twice yesterday but haven’t heard anything

    136. BuckieBraes says:

      @Pam McMahon

      ‘Nigel Farage and UKIP are going to defend Jim Murphy from any more omletting, when he comes out from under his bed and gets back on his wee box.’

      He might come out for a chocolate chip cookie (early seventies TV ad – showing my age now).

    137. Nana Smith says:

      I read a few days ago that Lesley Anne is away at a wedding.

      I do miss her posts!

    138. Paula Rose says:

      @ Nana Smith – Yes, LA is a bridesmaid!

    139. macart763m says:


      Well I’ve got a wee surprise waiting for LA when she gets back. 😉

    140. JWil says:

      Murphy and eggs:


      Take out the spaces.

    141. JWil says:

      Its ok as it is.

    142. Finlay says:

      Waffling Buffoon!

      An apt quote for the current Political hot debate! Watching Blackadder goes Fourth and this comes from the satirical mouth of the character Lord Melchett:
      “That’s the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.”

      Remind anybody of any one group in particular?

    143. Billy Mac says:

      The higher the risk the higher the rate for goverment bonds.
      This list of 20 shows that such nations as Spain and Ireland are less risky to invest in than the uk.

    144. Nana Smith says:

      @ Macart

      Ooooh you are a tease! Give us a clue..

    145. Marcia says:

      Nice photos of Yes Kirkcaldy/Yes Burntisland event today.

    146. macart763m says:


      Been doing a little work for South Annan YES. LAs lookin’ good in the pics. 🙂

    147. JWil says:

      In the Murphy video, if you use the pause feature you can see someone who might be taking a picture of the culprit.

      There seems to be someone with a mask, don’t know if he is the one, and there is a guy with a brolley making a quick exit at the back. The pause feature lets you see his face.

      You can also freeze the hand and arm breaking the egg on Murphy’s back. I haven’t spent too much time on it so there could be more.

    148. JWil says:

      It’s more exciting than the David Bailey film, Blowup.

    149. HandandShrimp says:

      The last week has been a remarkable one. The debate, the awful BT TV advert, the rise in the polls, Cameron coming up to lecture us from on high again (and taking a tumble at the CBI on the EU), Murphy the Eggman and now we have Farage coming to shore up Better Together.

      I was out on our local Yes stall most of yesterday afternoon and it was noticeable how much more interest there is in the referendum. Rather than trying to avoid leaflets people were coming up and asking for leaflets, stickers, window posters. It was actually incredibly encouraging. There were a few of us there including an English couple that were told to get back to England by a No voter….(that messed with our heads a bit to be honest) However, a couple of eccentric aside, it was a cracking afternoon.

    150. Graham says:

      There are glitches everywhere. The first AS Darling debate couldn’t be accessed through stv player in England but was fine through a US proxy. See video of two machines on same router. One proxied one on sky UK

    151. Nana Smith says:


      I’m sure Lesley Anne will be pleased. I wonder when she will be back.

    152. kendomacaroonbar says:


      Apologies, this is for those people who don’t do twitter, and would have missed my earlier begging letter 🙁

      Thank you !

    153. fred blogger says:

      that kiaboshes WM assertions, as far as scotlands case goes.
      also, as i understand what he was saying below it is very difficult for the uk to leave the eu, if the uk decides to leave as a result of a referendum!
      because individual citizenship of the eu once a member, is for practical purposes guaranteed.

    154. macart763m says:


      Hopefully soon. We can’t have a party without her. 😀

    155. CM says:


      Curious to know, after reading about the model in BT leaflet is actually a Yes supporter, if in fact PatronisingBTLady is also a Yes. What’s her name?

    156. les Wilson says:

      John Walsh says:

      John you are right to think that way, it was a setup and boy were the MSM ready to spin it. This is in an effort to shut YES supporters up.

    157. boris says:

      Unfair Share of the Wealth Within the UK
      Wealth is also unevenly spread across the UK. An average household in the South East has almost twice (182.63%) the amount of wealth of an average household in Scotland.

    158. Famous15 says:

      Do not blame me,I have already cancelled my BBC licence and insisted on a refund which they paid. After tonight’s news which I watched with a one second delay,I was disgusted that they did not mention that it was a YES victim. Murphy your antics after a slight egging by one of your own staff has caused a civilised debate to turn nasty. I blame you Murphy and hope you never get your ermine robe,because you disgust me. What a bloody waste of a good egg which could easily have gone to a food bank if you had only told your staff to pretend egging you!

    159. “Because it just wid! Right?” Almost embarrassed for the clown.

    160. liz says:

      @Famous 15 – agree 100%.

      I don’t think history will be kind to Murphy.

    161. Jim says:

      £48 billion a year as of 2012, 400,000 jobs, 2,500 billion dollars potentially left and they only want to keep Scotland in the UK because they love us? LMFAO

    162. It appears from the police that Murphy, despite his media garbage, hasn’t actually reported the incident. Until he does, the police are unable to take action. Funny that. Almost as if he wants publicity for himself, and dumping of bile on Yes folk, but that there should be no attempt to find the “unknown perpetrator”. Suspicious? Time to file it under dirty tricks and move on.

    163. Rock says:


      “Regarding the quality of Holyrood opposition and who would be fit for team Scotland after aYES vote. First on the list will be Henry McLeish. He has made all the right noises without jumping ship and his experience will be invaluable.”

      We can perhaps assign him the duty of regaining the Scottish territory HE gave away to England without asking us.

      Trust a chameleon like McLeish? You can’t be serious.

      The only Labour people to be included would be from Labour For Independence.

    164. Rock says:

      Marco McGinty,

      “A bit O/T, but as an amateur naturalist (that’s NATURALIST!), I do get slightly annoyed when various animals are used as an insult to humans.”

      Sorry for my comment above. Animals do it naturally and are not to blame, no disrespect meant to them.

    165. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dorothy Bruce –

      So, why doesn’t WOS, or NNS, or someone else, report what appears to be a criminal act?

      Doesn’t have to be the victim who reports an assault, surely?

      What if we all report it simultaneously?

    166. Mealer says:

      Whilst I’m in the Yes camp and have been for a long,long time,I’m also well aware of the long term importance of our independence being borne out of reasoned and rational debate.But I’m really struggling with the Last Lib dem here.Hey!! Any Lib Dems reading this! Get a grip now! Sack Willie NOW and become the party of federalism!

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      @frankieboy says: 31 August, 2014 at 4:12 pm:

      “Chancin’ basturt. I feel better now I said out loud”

      Willie Rennie, the very real character the Scottish phrase, “Blidy wee nyaff”, was coined for.

    168. Jim says:

      “On the yes side, many of the young people I spoke to despise Alex Salmond.”
      What a load of bollocks, what is there to despise this man, could it be the free education you receive from primary to secondary to University or college? answer, nothing. The current Scottish Government is the best thing that has happened to this country to date!
      This man, one of the greatest politicians this country has produced has been the subject of myriad abuse in the media for the simple fact that he is the one man capable of bringing the prize we all want which is self determination and no matter how much people, like Jim Sillars proclaim to hate the man and his values he is the one man who has given them the chance of attaining that prize, lest they forget.

    169. Thepnr says:

      Let’s get over the egging, there will be plenty more to fill our time in the coming weeks.

      We all know already how biased the media is. Well unfortunately posting here on Wings is unlikely to change that.

      Remain positive, a day or two ago we could take on the world. I still believe we can. Let’s all laugh at the propaganda 🙂

    170. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Note to all –

      This tailing-off of comments at and about midnight will really have to stop.

      We’re about to witness/cause the collapse of an Empire, but discussion ends when everyone’s had their cocoa?

      Nah…we need to see some all-nighters from here on in.
      (Let’s face it – if they don’t happen here, they won’t happen at all.)

      Up all night people, cause one thing’s for sure – The British State don’t sleep.

      We can take turns, eh?

    171. Jim says:


      Let’s all laugh at the propaganda.
      Let’s all get behind the man who made this all possible!

    172. bunter says:

      Herald splash tomorrow is a Darling inspired front page. Very disappointing and suggesting ”carnage”.

    173. Jim says:

      Darling was a sacrificial lamb, not important, propaganda in the media is the real enemy.

    174. Mealer says:

      Let’s say a big hi! to Bill Howatson!Lib Dem provost of South Aberdeenshire! What do you reckon Bill? Is Willie Rennie up,to the task? How about it Bill? Are you going to lead the Libdems onto that fertile,Liberal federalist ground? We’re watching Bill.Watching and waiting.Alex Johnstone ain’t a good bedfellow.

    175. indigo says:

      The front page of the Herald is an absolute disgrace

      I’ve just finished watching the Jim Murphy & Alex Salmond interview on Sky News, never mind what either of them said, the highlight was watching Salmond try to keep a straight face whilst Murphy talked absolute nonsense

    176. heedtracker says:
      Plunge anywhere really

      “This is the former prime minister in his heartland – South Lanarkshire council HQ, Hamilton, just outside Glasgow, among old-time Labour loyalists. There is lots of white hair on display, a fair amount of belly, a huge amount of shared history. He bearhugs the men, self-consciously pats women on the back with both hands, slinks his hair to the side for pictures. He even smiles. He’s got a lovely smile, when it catches him unawares.”


      . A thriving jobs market for independent Scotland? Fine, he says, but 70% of the country’s trade is with England. Living off oil revenues? Ridiculous, he says, Scotland would receive an estimated £2.9bn in oil revenues in 2016/17 and the pension bill alone is now £9bn. Going it alone, while still using the pound? “Instead of creating the levers of power for an independent Scotland, the SNP is suggesting a voluntary neo-colonial relationship with the rest of Britain. Scotland wouldn’t have any control of the pound.” Redistributive tax? “Labour proposes a top rate of tax for those earning more than £150,000, the SNP opposes it. Ed Balls proposed a bankers’ bonus tax. The SNP says no. They want to cut corporation tax by 3p in the pound. That’s less for health and pensions, not more.”


      “I look at him in his modest blue suit, the scuffed shoes, hair sinking into the back of that bull-neck. This great growling bear of a man doesn’t so much resemble a 20th-century politician as a 19th-century one. He is rigid and brusque, and yet there is so much that is admirable, heroic even, about him. You hate giving interviews, don’t you, I say. “No, I don’t actually. I didn’t want to give interviews about …” And now it’s my time to cut him off.

      Are you happier being back in Scotland? He bangs the table with his glass of water. “Look,” he explodes, “I stood at the last election to stay in government, and I cannot be happy that we’re out of government can I?”

      Progressive liberal England says Scotland voting Yes is blasphemy, Scottish blasphemers, Labour in Scotland will have another 100 years and then you will be glad.

    177. liz says:

      @Thepnr – Agreed but it’s good to let off steam here and not on the streets.

      When things ramp up over the next couple of weeks,we can scream on here and then get on with the job.

    178. Mealer says:

      Councillor David Mey.Lib dem.Why are you so determined to keep trident? I’m dashed if I can find any other LIbdem who supports it.Time to dump he leadership and go with Scotland.

    179. Rock says:


      “This man, one of the greatest politicians this country has produced has been the subject of myriad abuse in the media for the simple fact that he is the one man capable of bringing the prize we all want which is self determination and no matter how much people, like Jim Sillars proclaim to hate the man and his values he is the one man who has given them the chance of attaining that prize, lest they forget.”

      Totally agree.

      Despite being great advocates for Yes, people like Jim Sillars and Patrick Harvie are very wrong to make anti Salmond and anti SNP comments.

      Sillars and Harvie will get the chance to present THEIR politics AFTER Independence. Until then, they should publicly acknowledge that above all, it is Alex Salmond to thank for getting us to this stage.

      The British establishment has thrived for centuries by its ‘Divide and Rule’ tactic. Surely Sillars and Harvie should have the maturity not to fall for it.

    180. Mealer says:

      There was no egging at the Brechin Music Festival this weekend.The Londonites were conspicuous by their absence.

    181. Paula Rose says:

      Mealer – you big boy, there was me balancing on my high heels.

    182. Mealer says:

      I’m hearing reports that Earl of Dalhousie,owner of Brechin Castle Garden centre,has erected NO THANKS signs on his massive estate.

    183. Mealer says:

      His Grace,the Duke of Stracathro,or whatever he calls himself,is backing NO to the hilt.Signs everywhere.I dont think the hard working family farmers on his estate have much choice.

    184. “Doesn’t have to be the victim who reports an assault, surely?”

      I honestly don’t know, but I suspect it might have to be. If the “victim” does not want to press charges then I don’t think the police can act. But perhaps others are better informed on this and can tell us.

    185. manandboy says:

      With so little time left,
      The BT campaign, with John McTernan at the helm,
      will be concocting the daily headlines
      for TV & Press from here on in,
      just as in the Murphy/Egg story.

      In the meantime the strength of the Yes case
      lies in the NHS being privatised in England
      and will soon undermine NHS Scotland.

      McTernan will attack this with all he’s got.

      Just watch.

    186. Papadox says:

      The elderly pseudo middle class NO voters are a disgrace to their children and grand children. They are prepared to sell their future generation chance at life for a couple of quid in their own purse, for a few years.

      They are prepared to sell their kids national health service to show how loyal they are to the pukka middle class.

      They are willing to sell their education.

      They will give away Scotland’s oil & gas which is what should be the heritage of their descendants, for what? They really need to look at themselves in a mirror, think of the chances they got then look at their offspring and see the damage they are going to visit on them by their selfishness for a few £ for a few years

      And once they have done all that damage to their own kids, then Westminster is going to rub their noses in it. Hope you are a proud scot when you meet your maker.

    187. manandboy says:

      I had a thought today.

      In the event of a Yes result in IndyRef,

      the Scottish Establishment will become the ‘opposition’
      for the first time in 307 years.

      The new Scottish Establishment, will, naturally,be made up of pro-independence groups and organisations as well as individuals.

      However this will take time and will be rather complex as many of the present incumbents will be rather stubborn I suspect.
      I’m thinking for example of the Police Force, the Judiciary
      and all UK Gov appointed boards and quangos.
      Not to mention the establishment club.
      Yes, I think there will be obstacles.
      No Surrender – isn’t that what they say ?

      And I’m not just talking about the govan club.

    188. Please vote YES, not for social justice, not for more democracy; vote YES to wipe the grin of Rennie’s and Murphy’s faces. It’s reason enough, fairer society and resource wealth are bonus’s.

      Vote YES for that forthcoming highlight – Johann Lamont’s defeat speech
      Vote YES for that further highlight – Cameron/Ferage coalition speech in no. 10’s rose garden, knowing it does’t effect us.

      To get these to look forward to we need to keep on convincing folks. push, …push.

    189. thoughtsofascot says:

      On the subject of a future negotiation team for Scotland, the lack of talent among the Scottish unionist MPs and MSPs is terrifying.
      McLeish is probably the best of a bad lot when it comes to the labour MSPs, and while we may not like it, it would be worth having Darling and Carmichael on the team if only for the sake of humiliating the UK (Just please for the love of God Salmond, don’t give them any job other than serving tea!)

      There really isn’t much talent to be pulled from outside the SNP, Greens and Sheridan really…

    190. Marco McGinty says:

      @Dorothy Bruce
      “I honestly don’t know, but I suspect it might have to be. If the “victim” does not want to press charges then I don’t think the police can act. But perhaps others are better informed on this and can tell us.”

      Surely that can’t be the case. I realise that I am taking this to the extreme, but if we take the crime of murder, then the victim cannot press charges, for obvious reasons. Likewise with assaults that hospitalise victims in an unconscious state, again the victims would be unable to press charges.

      Murphy has used (or planned?) this whole sordid affair for his, and BT’s gain. Playing the victim (at the hand of those nasty Nats), then trying to play the good guy by not bringing charges. He’s a conniving scumbag, and should not be trusted in any way.

    191. R-type Grunt says:

      It’s looking increasingly like the hit & run in Barrhead was a deliberate attempt to murder a group of Yes campaigners, according to FB.

    192. thoughtsofascot says:

      This may sound old fashioned, but I would suggest writing a letter to any solid no older folk in the extended family who wont listen to sense or reason, or logic. I intend to do so and have my family back in Glasgow mail it onto those people. It may not work, but they keep asking when I plan on coming home. This is utterly hypocritical of them though, because they know fine well that I *cant* come home unless its a yes because of the Tories immigration policy and the fact that my significant other is not European.

      You bet I’m going to bleeping bleep guilt trip them.

    193. manandboy says:

      This is what the No Campaign is like.

      A couple who are soon to be married
      decide to have their stag/hen night
      at the same time in the same hotel
      but in separate function rooms.

      During the evening, one of the girls at the party
      wanders through to see how the lads are enjoying themselves.
      She stops at the door and listens for a second.
      She hears the lads laughing inside, including the ‘groom,
      and saying a lot of really nasty things about the bride.

    194. Marco McGinty says:

      As for the negotiating team, I wouldn’t want any of the unionist politicians involved in any way. They have collectively lied and deceived their way through the entire referendum process, and deviously manipulated the media (not that it needed much manipulation).

      Not only have they tried to sully all Yes campaigners with their duplicitous behaviour, they have treated the wider electorate like filthy imbeciles.

      There should be no crumbs offered to them in an independent Scotland.

    195. liz g says:

      fred blogger @ 12.26

      Good read thanks for the link

      Eldest daughter,an honors Graduate,signed on
      Despite having a module that included writing a CV she was still put forward to attend a course to learn how to write a CV.
      According to her she could have taught it.
      Not only was it a waste of her time and our money,the course was a mixture of sound bites and Americanisms that did not reflect anyone in her group.
      I [and she agreed with me] fail to see how these CV’s helped any one other than the company that provided the service.

    196. Barontorc says:

      Murphy has been caught out in broad daylight. His official protectors were in on it. How can an assailant smack you on the back with an egg and simply walk away, with no pursuit? It could have been a knife. No police complaint from Murphy. No investigation of the much photographed assailant – c’mon special branch – is this what it’s getting to. Very sloppy indeed.

    197. Chic McGregor says:

      Oor Wullie’s done his best,
      Spinnin’ on his bucket.
      If Scotland his the baws fir YES,
      His last words will be ____ __

    198. thoughtsofascot says:

      I have to admit, when I read up on the bios of some of the unionist politicians who have previously put themselves forward for team Scotland, I do have a bit of a chuckle. For example, one of the Tory unionists was such a successful car salesman that he put two of his own companies into administration. This is the kind of talent that Scottish politics has been cursed with. Unsuccessful businessmen/women. unsuccessful teachers, Westminster Yes men/women and over-promoted Councillors.

      Its truly shocking.

    199. JWil says:

      With regard to future negotiations, it’s not just a lack of talent in the unionist camp it’s also a lack of trust. The SNP must take the lead, if not all of the parts in the negotiating team. They can feed back to the unionists if they must, but they should keep a safety barrier between unionist opinion and the rUK negotiating team.

    200. This is O/T and possibly, hopefully, OTT… firstly, I was heading out for a coffee today (I live in the south side of Glasgow) with my Yes, CND, Wings badges affixed and happened to pass by a parked car which had two smallish union jacks placed on top, and lots of Naw type stickers here and there. Not something I’m used to seeing, except maybe if Rangers have just won a trophy and there is gloating to be had.

      A few minutes later I passed a guy, late 50s, with Naw badges stuck awkwardly to his smart M&S jumper. He had spotted my voting intentions first and as we passed he gave me a real nasty look. It came to me that this was more than likely to be the owner of the Nawmobile. I didn’t give it much thought until reading through the threads and twitter plus news about happenings yesterday at Tynecastle and in Glasgow city centre where Yessers had been attacked.

      If things are moving towards Yes then we should be wary of intimidation/provocation coming from hardline rightwingers associated with BNP/OO who now feel that their ‘way of life’ is under threat. Remember that Unionist motto: No Surrender.

      Following on from the Murphy debacle they (the more militant sort) may feel it’s time for some righteous payback. I read ‘Lochside’s report from the QOTS game,I saw the big flags the Rangers Ultras displayed, I read about the Yessers stall being attacked, and the incident in Argyle St, and now I’ve read about the Hub being set alight, although I think this happened to be an empty shop covered with YES Posters, not sure as yet.

      I hope I’m wrong, but it would be naive to think there are right wingers who are just going

    201. (Sorry nudged wrong key)
      … It would be naive to think that there are right wingers who are just going to let their precious regime slip away without a whimper.

      Just be on your guard if you’re out and about.

    202. a2 says:

      still up Ian Brotherhood? 😉

    203. stuckdoonhame says:

      Oh I AM getting SO fed up with some of the assumptions on this website! I am female, in my 60s, and no doubt as an ex-teacher what one of your posters describes as being “pseudo middle class”.
      (I am well aware I wouldn’t have have my education without the grant system that was available when I had my further education). I spent my working life thinking I was repaying the generosity that allowed me to get my degree.
      I am not nor have ever been a member or devotee of any one political party but am proud that I have never voted Tory. I have spent my adult life voting and hoping for my country to be independent.
      Will some of you please stop assuming the middle class are all vehemently self-serving and anti-independence and get out here and find that many of us who came from poor backgrounds are actually on the same side as you!
      Rant over.

    204. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

      England the drowning man of Europe clutching at oil slicks, a conjoined Scotland to suffer the same fate,
      England death by drowning
      Scotland death by suicide.
      Yes it’s that simple it really is a life or death matter.
      Unfortunately England is the only swimmer that realises the fact.
      Cheers from a former colony Australia, like Scotland rich in natural assets, unlike Scotland we have not managed to turn them into a liability wringing our hands over oh dear how much how long? no we just dig it up sell it and get rich SIMPLE

    205. kininvie says:

      Usual late night/early morning update on WBB distribution (maybe people will catch on to look in the right place!

      There will be delivery to Dundee today. Glasgow distribution is going well. As soon as we know the numbers we have ready tomorrow, we’ll be shipping out to those wider areas where we have most demand.

      Everyone’s aware of the preciousness of time – we are getting WBB out as fast as they come out of the binders! But there’s never going to be enough – print you own – leave a link with a undecided….

    206. Stuart Blair says:

      Sweet Jesus. This is the closest I’ll ever come to a politician uttering the words “It’s got electrolytes. It’s what a plant craves.”

    207. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Stuckdoonhame, nice to hear your side of the story…I suspect you are the ‘silent’ majority who never post..
      what us a amateur radio buffs call ‘ licensed listeners’;folk that never use their microphones to announce their presence :).
      I live in rural ‘Eastwood’, and folk are keeping things very close to their chests, with hardly any outward signs..posters etc so it’s a hard one to call this for the Referendum.

      Just thought iI’d say hi to you and all the nighthawks this early a.m. 🙂

    208. a2 says:


      I do understand you are mental busy and it’s no small task but do you think you could possibly give us a clue to where the right place to look actually is rather than hope we might catch on? not all of us can be reading all the posts all the time for clues and to the casual visitor it’s a bit hard to find where to get hold of copies.

      The obvious place to look is up there where it says “wee blue book” but that doesn’t yield the desired info. I’m sure there are many people like me who only need a dozen or so to specificity give to wavering nos that won’t engage online but like me aren’t in the position to print our own.

    209. Craw Jim Murphy only a few years ago was the Sec of State for Scotland and was expected to be Diplomatic as he travelled the world projecting the goods,services and tourism for SCOTLAND.

      Quote from Craw Jim –
      “Yer arse is bigger than yer argument hen” at one of his recent rallies.

      Muppet Murphy killed his career with that one disrespectful sentence, but a job in the Diplomatic Corps is a prospect.?

      His obsession with women`s arses is not a career – it`s a felony.

      Logic dictates that he can accurately judge women`s opinion but only IF he is standing behind them.?

      Let`s have a new campaign versus Murphy – Stick “YES BADGES” on our bums and expose his idiocy by bending over at all his rallies.

    210. Dunx says:

      @ Capella etc
      please don’t hate me but the reason BBC and STV are circumspect in their reporting of the incident in Argle St. is ‘cos it is already “Sub Judice” Their reporting is a straight lift from Police-Scotland. Any further speculation or embellishment could lead them being subject to a contempt of court.
      They’re not stupid , anything that might prejudice this case (when it eventually appears, probably next year, if we are lucky! BUT in any case after 18th Sept!) would leave them liable to a charge of Contempt of Court.

      So no matter how prejudiced,incompetent, or biased they may appear in their reporting of Fitba or Politics they do know the law and where they stand regarding “Scot’s Law” and where their own neck might be.

      Meanwhile the Jim Murphy incident rumbles on. Not reported, therefore anyone can speculate articulate and make any inferences they like regarding it. Job done ! Because it hasn’t been reported YET. The “Eggy” case is not , “sub judice” Therefore Mr. “Eggyman’s” face can appear all over BBc Scotland and on “Not-better, together”‘s own video. Which it could be argued already is prejudicial to the outcome of any trial that he, “Egger” may face in future. (This might a grey area).

      Be that as it may,please please don’t any of you’se think that Murphy is stupid. What he is doing and what is happening here is a very concerted manipulation of the circumstances of these meetings.
      1. Goad the punters , make them rise to the bait, if that doesn’t work
      switch to plan 2.
      2. Seeded /planted; keyword such as …”Quisling”, “Traitor” “English”
      This allows Jim to launch into a diatribe about “Racist” or “Eggs …in a Modern Nationalist Scotland….” and “pretendy Socialist…” , “..I will never ever be silenced…” and so on.
      please don’t be fooled and don’t rise to that bait.

      So, what ? I’ve heard tell that for Jim its just a game, its politics. But for all that, for the mind numbingly ,ear bleedingly, eye suturing times that I have poured over those videos of you, Jim and your politics of manipulation, cant and rhetoric,in all those 100 days, the one single image remains of YOU, Jim Murphy. Hand cupped over your ear saying ” …ah canny hear you….”
      And the woman saying…
      “…Ye’re a liar Jim, can you hear me now…?”
      No! Lass he canny hear you.
      But I hear you. I can hear you now.
      And if I can hear you, a thousand others can hear you and a thousand more.
      And if one, just one, Jim, just one wee lassie has to go to a foodbank to feed her weans….that is one too many!
      Can you hear us now…Jim murphy?

    211. steven Seagull says:

      @ Heedtracker

      Aye him.

      Prof Jizzin Rabies fae Slabbernia aka psycho/schizo Glesga uni weirdo nutjob.

      Seriously fkd in the heid clownshoes.

      Should be sectioned in Carstairs.

      Mad as fk, total loony.

    212. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t think there is a separate link for WBB updates, so Off Topic appears to be the place for info.

      You can also order small quantities of WBB and other WOS material here.

    213. steven Seagull says:

      @ Manandboy

      Hey bud

      After independence, the oath of allegiance, must be to the people of Scotland.

      For all civil agents.

      Not tae the filthy corrupt warmonger crown as it stands.

      Nae mair english imperial criminal wars.

      Peace /paz.

    214. steven Seagull says:

      @ papadox

      Yup, spot on analysis bud!


    215. john king says:

      Andy Murie says
      “unfortunately some people watching this halfwit believe what he says.”

      no really, who? even HE doesnt beleive what he says!

      BBC world buisness headine
      gets my attention this morning, have UKOK floated on the NASDAQ?
      newsanchor goes onto describe an energy deal between India and Japan,

      oh well.

      John Walsh SAYS
      “The really odd thing is the guy has vanished from the face of the earth.spooks

      What does everyone else think?”

      Oh I agree alright,
      as I said on a previous post ,before Murphys arrival my wife tore into one of his advance guard (English guy in a suit standing with about 7 or 8 others similarly dressed) who was mouthing off about the “maniacs, scum, jobless” yes campaigners standing in front of the yes shop, he went onto to say the “miners had brought about their own demise as it was cheaper to import coal from Poland”,
      enter the wife who proceeds to put this clown straight on a few matters! 🙂

      Now this guy who was very obvious by his tall stature and beard, when we went up the high street to the Murphy debacle, strangely dissapeared, the wife said, he was standing right there a minute ago ,at this point he was absolutely nowhere to be seen in the crowd of (at most 50) so where Murphy gets hundred of yessers is beyond me as half of that crowd were his pre arranged adoring fans,

      Anyway this guy dissappears about 5 to 10 minutes before our freind arrives, (where did he go?)
      My take on this is that tall English guy go’s away to prime the eggman telling him that Jim has stirred the crowd up so its your turn,

      enter the vicious attacker who carefully places an egg gently on Jims back after a previously agreed near miss from about two feet away which safely sails over his head, which he spookily saw coming from behind and turns round just before the egg appears and conveniently ducks.

      Jim Murphys behaviour from the get go was an absolute disgrage for an 10 year old child never mind a sitting MP and it was as plain as the nose on your face what his plan was, to stir this crowd up into a frenzy the create a false flag event and make the most of it for as long as possible,

      I looked at the eggmans face and ,you know when your looking at a local even though you’ve never seen them before, I am absolutely certain that man was not from Kirkcaldy, which in its own right doesnt mean much but its worth being aware that mans direction of travel away from the high street took him to Hunter street a few hundred yards away and in Hunter street is the NO SHOP.

      Somebody else said his direction of travel also took him to the bus station at the top of that hill (100 yards)
      My thought on that is yea if your going to commit an arrestable crime your not going to then go and stand patiently waiting for a bus to make your getaway,
      apart from anything else not one of Murphys minders made any move to apprehend the culprit.

      Rock says
      “Trust a chameleon like McLeish? You can’t be serious.”

      I absolutely agree.

      Jim says
      “On the yes side, many of the young people I spoke to despise Alex Salmond.”

      Those people are still under the spell of what the msm tells them to beleive,
      if the media told them Alex Salmond was the best thing since sliced bread, it would be so,
      we need to wake people up to how they are being manipulated.
      I even find myself falling (for a moment) for some of the propaganda they churn out.

    216. Shanghaied says:

      The MSM haven’t got it yet but the numbers are enlightening.

      “The ABC’s six-monthly figures are just out. Aberdeen Press and Journal: down 5.1% year-on-year. Dundee Courier: down 6.8%. Edinburgh Evening News: down 14.1%. Glasgow Evening Times: down 14.9%. The (Glasgow) Herald: down 8.1%. The Scotsman: down 13.2%. Scotland on Sunday: down 19%.”

      “The Sunday Herald … was the first big newspaper to back independence. It’s up by just 1%.”

      You have to scroll right to the end to find this in an unrelated article.

    217. Chitterinlicht says:

      Sorry if this has been said but



      How can you ‘trash’ a reputation when you do not have one in the first place?


    218. Malc says:

      As it only came out as YES in the last 2 months of those numbers that is a fair swing, it was probably down about 15% given the other Sundays numbers at that point, so big swing.
      SOS down 19% so huge difference in 1% rise.

    219. Wee Alex says:

      I felt a wee bit sorry for Rennie yesterday. He was completely out of his depth but kept plugging away, only to make a bigger fool of himself.

      My sympathy soon changed when he could not bring himself to admit, no assets, no liabilities.

      Just listening to Michal Kelly on radio trying to justify Labours decades of neglect in Glasgow. That man has no shame!

    220. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just when you thought it was safe to come out from behind the sofa. Boo. 🙁

    221. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s no surprise Project Fear are targeting the elderly with scare stories of lost pensions. Terrorists.

      Plenty of column inches have been written about the youth vote – far less about these crucial elderly Scots. In the Survation poll released after last week’s Salmond v Darling TV debate, the 64+ group was the only one more likely to vote no as a result even though the vast majority agreed that Alex Salmond had won the debate……

      Actually though there is good news. On this subject, there is near total agreement between current Holyrood and Westminster governments. Pensioners in an independent Scotland will be entitled to current levels of state pension. The commitment was made first in December’s White Paper when the SNP said the Scottish Government would assume full responsibility for pensions at the point of independence and would recognise all full and part contributions made to the UK. In May the UK pensions minister, Steve Webb acknowledged legal liability rests with Westminster so pensions are guaranteed by the UK too.

    222. Colin Church says:

      TV and print journos will have to look at themselves in the mirror on 19th. The BT UKOK case is feeble and falls apart under the gentlest of scrutiny as exposed by Brewer on too few occasions. The problem is that they do not bother scratching below the soundbite. EU, currency, interest rates, jobs, poverty, austerity… They just conflate, distract and run interference plays to portray these issues as “unanswered questions”.

    223. Iain says:

      Papadox some way above asked, understandably, who voted for the likes of Willie Rennie.

      Very few actually voted for him. He didn’t become an MSP through a personal win in a constituency: he’s a list MSP because there were enough Lib Dem votes (5.9%!) overall in Fife to allow them one seat. And he’s the leader of the 5 Lib Dems in Holyrood because nobody else wanted the job.

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think this should be shared widely. My favourite is the letter from HSBC.

      I confirm that your pension plan will not be affected should Scotland vote for independence. We will continue to invest the funds and pay out the retirement benefits as per normal.

      @ No Better Together Thanks
      Lying again?

    225. bluedog says:

      Rennie is quite right but didn’t explain it well. The ratings agencies like Standard & Poor will give Scotland a credit rating and initially it will not be AAA like the UK. The rating may start off around A- until Scottish economic management is proven. Banks operating under Scottish supervision will borrow at higher rates that reflect the risks implied in the new economic management regime. These higher rates would inevitably flow through to the cost of borrowing for the Scottish household sector. If Fred Goodwin gets the job of running the Scottish Central Bank (will there be one?) the rates would be higher still.

    226. The Man in the Jar says:

      anyone agreeing with Rennie is either very stupid or lying.

      Which one are you?

      Fred Goodwin getting the job FFS! Get a grip.

    227. JLT says:

      I enjoyed that!

    228. Black Douglas says:

      Don’t usually respond to 👿 but Bluedug that statement is up there with Murphy’s eggate, complete and utter rubbish.

      Please give one piece of evidence for your total and abundantly clear lack of any semblance of financial knowledge & understanding.

      I await a full response with baited breath.

    229. bluedog says:

      Black Douglas says, ‘Please give one piece of evidence for your total and abundantly clear lack of any semblance of financial knowledge & understanding.’

      Logic may not be your strong point. Here’s a question that you will hopefully understand.

      How can I provide evidence in support of something that you claim I don’t have?

    230. bluedog says:

      Man in the Jar @ 09.35, don’t hold back, what is your estimate of Scotland’s credit rating?

    231. CameronB Brodie says:

      Credit ratings agencies are private guns for hire. They are not democratically accountable and are not to be relied upon. Just look at Greece, or go and read what the World Bank thinks of them. Not far short of a threat to democracy.

    232. Jim says:

      Give Ireland Back to the Irish is a song written by Paul and Linda McCartney. Give Ireland back but keep Scotland, what is that all about Mr McCartney?

    233. CameronB Brodie says:


    234. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t believe me, go and Google it. 🙂

    235. Black Douglas says:

      Still waiting Bluedug but i think you just proved my point 😀

      Answers the original question please.

    236. Jim says:

      Why do some people say Scotland is better off because of the constitutional setup of the UK not despite it.
      Does this mean they are implying the UK has a constitution which it doesn’t or am I being dense and not understanding the context here?

    237. Out of the three Credit Rating Agencies Standard And Poor,Fitch and Moody only S & P give The uk AAA and the TE rating of the uk is negative .

    238. DaveDee says:

      john king says:

      Now this guy who was very obvious by his tall stature and beard, when we went up the high street to the Murphy debacle, strangely dissapeared,

      John, Is they guy with the beard, the same one standing next to the egg thrower in this picture ?×300.jpg


    239. Jim says:

      “The owner of this website ( does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/eggy-5-244×300.jpg).”
      That is all I get?

    240. bluedog says:

      Black Douglas, I gave answer about 5 mins ago but the Rev Stu seems to have called on divine intervention and my post is missing.

    241. CameronB Brodie says:

      Not sure if it is just me, but I get an Error 1011 from your link, access denied.

    242. DaveDee says:

      Not sure why link to picture not working try this link


    243. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s definitely Eggman circled with arm raised.

    244. DaveDee says:


      It is and he seems to have had all the time in the world to carry it out without anybody trying to stop or detain him.

      However it was the man in the beard standing just in front of him I was wondering about, John King had mentioned a tall man with a beard and I was wondering if that was the same man in the picture.


    245. Blair paterson says:

      I certainly do Not want any of those lying unionist or In our parliament after independence I mean the whole point of independence surely is to get rid of these people ,surely we want a fresh start ,as for A.S. To even talk about bringing in Darling e.t.c. Is beyond believe I mean what is the point of all our efforts ? Just to end up being run by the same old rouges ,by the way I am an A.S. Fan but not in this instance vote Yes

    246. CameronB Brodie says:

      Blair paterson
      Imagine how embarrassing it would be for Darling to accept a post in Team Scotland, after he has fronted the campaign to prevent Scotland’s self-determination.

      I still can’t get my head around those who profess a socialist outlook, yet support imperialism in practice.

      Imperialism, as defined by Dictionary of Human Geography, is “the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.”

    247. Robert Peffers says:

      @bluedog says: 1 September, 2014 at 10:17 am:

      What a numptie.

    248. Haggis Hunter says:

      Johann Lamont was made to look even more stupid in her last debate, think it was James Cook, with a one liner that had the audiance in stitches

    249. bluedog says:

      Robert Peffers @ 12.33 has no answer to the points raised so plays the man.

      C’mon Robert, what do you think Scotland’s initial credit rating will be?

    250. DaveDee says:

      Nana Smith

      Disgraceful that those peaceful Yes campaigners were subjected to that.

      I wonder if it will get coverage in the broader MSM.

      Credit to EEN for printing it.

      Wee quote from the article :-

      George Foulkes, former chairman of Hearts and a firm supporter of the No campaign, stressed that there was no evidence the attack had been carried out or orchestrated by No campaigners.

      He said: “I deplore any physical violence but I think you have to be very careful about making claims about who is responsible.

      “I would deplore it. But I suspect it may be being exaggerated and twisted to create counter balance to the attacks Jim Murphy has had to suffer.”


    251. CameronB Brodie says:

      Have you Googled to find out what the World Bank thinks about credit ratings agencies?

    252. Robert Peffers says:

      @bluedog says: 1 September, 2014 at 1:18 pm:

      “C’mon Robert, what do you think Scotland’s initial credit rating will be?”

      Why bother? I don’t normally bother with poor quality trolls. You are typical Bitter Together – all empty claims & accusations with no cites or links to evidence.

    253. bluedog says:

      Yes Cameron, I’m familiar with the World Bank’s 2009 report. It’s reflective of widespread opinion at the time. In the wake of the Lehmann crisis China went so far as to set up its own credit rating agency, Dagong Global, in order to get away from the western agencies. You will be shocked to hear that Dagong has a negative outlook on US debt.
      But back to Scotland’s credit rating. As an IPO in credit markets, Scottish debt will initially be unrated. Initially the credit rating agencies will rate Scottish debt and that initial rating will not be AAA. In time Scotland will build a track record and its debt will be priced by the market and rerated by the agencies.
      I think you know that.

    254. bluedog says:

      Hi Robert @ 1.44pm, I find wikipedia is quite useful and here’s a link to their comment on sovereign debt:

      Hope this helps.

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m no financial expert, but what Scottish debt would this be?

      Here’s what the UCL School of Public Policy had to say concerning credit ratings agencies. I’ve only read the conclusions, which seems to back up my earlier comment.

      Working Paper 11
      Holding Global Regulators Accountable
      The Case of Credit Rating Agencies

    256. bluedog says:

      Cameron, Sovereign debt issued by the Scottish treasury, both short-term discounted bills and longer term interest bearing debt.

      Thanks for the link to the hugely impressive working paper. It seems to have been completely ignored by the markets, but will be useful for under-graduates if nothing else.

    257. CameronB Brodie says:

      If a tree falls when you aren’t present, does it still make a noise? Just because a report is not acted upon, does it mean that the report itself is useless?

    258. CameronB Brodie says:

      I forgot to ask you why, despite a lack of credit history, would a resource rich Scotland be considered more of a credit risk than rUK? I’m assuming you foresee no credit union, so Scotland’s wealth would undead be embarrassing, would it not, given the rUK will be picking up the UK’s tab?

    259. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oops, currency union.

    260. Grant says:

      In 2 1/2 weeks Mr Rennie will pick up his P45.

    261. bluedog says:

      Cameron @ 2.43, competent economic management is the driver of credit rating. There are countries with poor resources and very high credit ratings such as Hong Kong and Denmark. On the other hand take Iraq or Iran, overflowing with oil, but would you ever see your money again? A loan would simply become a grant.

      You would expect Scotland to settle down in the top tier in time, but initially the rating would be less than AAA. Note Ireland rates A-, hence my estimate of the same rating for Scotland.

      Regarding the report, it may not be useless but in an anarchic global market economy its musings are somehow irrelevant.

      One can understand why the First Minister wishes to remain dependent on Sterling. Running an IPO currency outside the major currency blocs could lead to extraordinary volatility. So is independence then independent?

      No in financial terms it becomes a practical impossibility. But shush, don’t tell the posters on this site.

    262. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

      If Scotland rejects independence It will receive eggsactly what it deserves for being so naïve.

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