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McTernan Predicts (slight return)

Posted on May 18, 2015 by

From last November:

Another one for the CV, there.

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    1. 18 05 15 13:32

      McTernan Predicts (slight return) | Speymouth

    278 to “McTernan Predicts (slight return)”

    1. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      You missed out International Cheese Expert in your description of McTernan.

    2. Seasick Dave says:

      Murphy and McTernan; these two could not be improved on for furthering the cause of Independence.

      We are SO lucky to have them and to see them continue post election.

      I pray that nothing awful happens to either of them.

    3. stig says:

      Scotland sorted Jim out !

    4. Blackhack says:

      Whatever you do, don’t ask him to pick your lottery numbers…:)

    5. No no no...Yes says:

      The man is too arrogant to eat humble pie.

      The big donors to the Labour Party must really be kicking themselves wasting their money on Jim Murphy and his backroom crew of McDougall, McTernan and Dalgety. What a bunch of losers.

      The signs for the next generation of failures ain’t looking to good either.

    6. sydthesnake says:

      there speaks a man with his finger on the pulse!!!!!!

    7. paul gerard mccormack says:

      For me, the dismissive body language and lack of eye contact says it all.

    8. Swami Backverandah says:

      “There’s a rather odd analysis around that Labour is acing a wipeout in Scotland at the next general election.”

      Well, he was right on that one.
      Ace it, they did! 😀

    9. Stppos says:

      That man’s a political genius!

    10. Democracy Reborn says:

      Let us never forget one of the gems from John’s back catalogue : Thatcher was “good”.

    11. Achnababan says:

      bawheid

    12. Michael says:

      Yay!

      We have confirmation of the next referendum!

      Good deal.

    13. Al-Stuart says:

      Stu.,

      You are on top form. Nice couple of video clips prooving how dire is the SLabour position..

      McTiernan says “Jim will win Scotland”

      We saw how spectacularly wrong this awful self serving creature is at predicting things. So when McTiernan says…

      “There will be no referendum”

      Well if I were a betting person, I would now be on the way to the bookies to place a bet on the opposite of what this failed spin voodoo idiot says !!!

    14. pitchfork says:

      there’s a German word… oh it’s on the tip of my tongue…

    15. Sandra says:

      Doesn’t he get tired being wrong all the time?

    16. … all this, and yet he’s the smart one in the Blair MacDougall/ John McTernan dream team.

      I’m struggling to conceive of a question, for which the answer is these two.

    17. iheartScotland says:

      Just little boys playing politics.
      Labour have no idea because that’s all they have. Just playing games.
      Playing games and having no consideration for how their decisions affect people’s lives.

    18. Muscleguy says:

      @Sandra

      I doubt it because the failures are not because of him or Jim they are all someone else’s fault. Jim and Kezia are on message with this. Get with the program.

    19. K1 says:

      This guy has singularly failed to comprehend any single aspect of what has been taking place in Scotland, for the last 5 years. Why has he been regarded as in any way credible by anyone, anywhere?

      He has been in the position of ‘strategist’, and ‘campaign manager’, and yet it has been clear for years on even a cursory glance, that anything he has ever uttered, has been completely wrong.

      Why did the Labour party employ this Tory to help destroy their party (branch, in Scotland). For that has been his only success.

    20. Wulls says:

      Surely when Jim goes these arseholes have to go too ??????
      If Scottish labour are to survive in any shape or form they have to cut deep. Not one survivor from the current National Executive can be allowed to remain in post……well 16 of them seeing as Jim voted for Jim.

    21. JoJ says:

      “(Odd, I know – choosing a number that reflects both their loss in the referendum and a failed attempt to impose French Catholic rule on Great Britain in the 18th century. But there you have it.)”

      What a weird thing to come out with.

    22. Mealer says:

      Pitchfork 12.23
      I think that German word you’re looking for is “wurst”.

    23. Chic McGregor says:

      “Don’t worry. There are no tanks”

    24. Dr Jim says:

      Self delusional “Dick” fought a year 2000 campaign in the year 2015
      Without the help of the Tories it showed up how slow their thinking was, and is
      You can’t fight an Idea by scaring people anymore
      Just wait till the youngsters start voting

    25. call me dave says:

      Took him just a few seconds to write off Scotland there. When will the incompetent plook on the posterior of the labour party be lanced?

      PS:
      No swearing in today at WM as business restricted to the election of the ‘speaker’ Mr Bercow. (My mother used to have a bercow boiler, but I digress)

      He is to be unopposed according to the BBC. Meanwhile the swearing in of the new Mps will be tomorrow.

      However some newcomers are claiming territory within the house the upstarts!
      ————————————————————-
      SNP MPs have already sought to commandeer part of the House of Commons front bench and are taking it in turns to ensure their leader Angus Robertson secures a prime spot on the green benches for today’s election of the Speaker and all future business in the chamber.

      Pete Wishart, the Perth MP, said he had been organising an hourly rota whereby three Nationalist members each take their seats on the prized spot; it is the parliamentary equivalent of placing towels on poolside sunbeds.

      “We are there. This is where we want to be; this is our space in the Commons,” declared Mr Wishart. This morning, the SNP MPs on seat guard duty were Patrick Grady, the MP for Glasgow North, Margaret Ferrier, the MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West, and Stewart McDonald, the MP for Glasgow South.

      The front bench opposite the despatch box is, by convention, reserved for the official Opposition but the neighbouring front pews have in the past been taken up by the third party; now the SNP. In the parliament before the last one, Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats occupied the front seats with the party leader taking the highly prized aisle seat; this was before they join with the Conservatives to form the Coalition government. When Labour was in government, it was taken up by former Prime Minister Ted Heath, and in the last parliament Dennis Skinner, the veteran Labour backbencher, took up the prized seat.

      But Mr Wishart said the rota was an example of his party simply displaying “enthusiasm and energy” for the business of the House; the party intends to have all its spokesmen and women on the front pews . He explained: “We are the third party and we will make sure the House sees that.”

      Technically, once the House formally resumes next week after the Queen’s Speech, in order to keep Labour MPs like Mr Skinner, the Derbyshire MP, off the front row, the SNP MPs will have to secure a “prayer card” for each seat they want every single day. Particularly for key set-piece events, like Prime Minister’s Questions, MPs who want to reserve a particular place queue up from 7.30 in the morning to secure their spot.

      However, Ronnie Campbell, the Labour MP for Blyth Valley in Northumberland, who sits on the opposition parties’ front bench, said the SNP were in for a fight for seats. He suggested the Nationalists had been put up to their attempt to commandeer seats by ex-First Minister Alex Salmond, the new MP for Gordon, who, it is thought will take either the seat next to Mr Robertson or the aisle seat behind him. “It’s them trying to say – we’re going to be the left wing now,” added Mr Campbell.

      Mr Wishart quipped that the SNP seat rota would become known as the “battle of the bench with the Beast of Bolsover”.
      …………………………………………………..

      Fills in their day I suppose. 🙂

    26. Rob James says:

      On top of the whopping fee he has no doubt extracted from Labour, it wouldn’t surprise me to discover that he was on the Tories payroll as well. The poshboys could always outbid their opponents for his services. McTernan certainly did a fine job for them.

    27. Grizzle McPuss says:

      McTernan…aka ’Political Relish’…a good accompaniment when you think you just can’t laugh any harder.

    28. Grouse Beater says:

      Has McTernan signed onto the Job Centre? Or is he applying for a job as bushwhacker back in Aussie?

      I ask only to know whether I still need to buy scent candles to make the air acceptable.

    29. chalks says:

      He doesn’t half talk some amount of shite.

      An awful salesman and an awful,wannabe malcolm tucker.

      O/T Deutsche Bank to drop it’s rating…

      http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/17/europe-banks-ratings-idUSL5N0Y80N320150517

      Couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch.

    30. stonefree says:

      Since 7/5/15 McDougall and McTernan should be out of work ,The fact they are unemployable in irrelevant.
      Murphy is no longer on Westminster’s books save for the FTSE(Final Trougher Salary and Expenses)
      The two Mc’s are effectively mercenaries
      So who is paying them and footing the bill?
      If Murphy had carried on to may 2016, That would be knocking on a million, Murphy doesn’t do cheap!!
      It’s of no real relevance,But someone must be asking.
      Maybe McCluskey and other union leaders should be asking

    31. icyspark says:

      This one is for you John McTernan, I hope you’re watching. Enjoy 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVt6GV3inWY

    32. sydthesnake says:

      @Donald Urquhart
      If the answer to any question is those 2 Muppets (sorry Jim Henson’s ghost for comparison) then the question was wrongly worded.

      between them could not predict the time if they both had 2 watches each

    33. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah wee song for McTeirnerse Timely Kangeroo down sport,climb back intae yer pouch Joey.

    34. call me dave says:

      Another wee gem from the Herald. Ken Smith: diary editor.

      Labour of love for Jim?

      WE wondered what people would suggest that Jim Murphy should do once he gives up the job of Scottish Labour leader – and yes we know many have said he should go back and finish his degree, after the claim that Jim spent nine years at yoonie without actually graduating.

      But we prefer the suggestion of someone recalling that St Enoch bust-up that Jim was involved in before the election who remarks:

      “Jim should spend the next couple of months just following Sean Clerkin around, shouting abuse at him.” 🙂

      PS:
      Does anyone else read D. Torrance or understand what it is he is trying to say. Spit it out man! FGS! 🙁

    35. steveasaneilean says:

      And it looks like Unite have the knives out for Labour yet when faced with the prospect of pouring oil on troubled waters Jim Murphy instead chose to put out the fire with petrol.

      That could cost Labour anything from £10 – 20 million over the next 5 years.

      Can they even stay solvent?

      And what was Unite’s “crime”? A bit of vote jiggery-pokery in some constituency party maybe? (Something Labour politicians never do of course, especially at local council level).

      Or was it that they dared to ask for higher taxes on the wealthy, more spending on public services like health and education and reversal of punitive anti-trade union laws?

      Now all Unite are asking for is that Labour demonstrate that they are the “voice of ordinary working people, that they are the voice of organised labour”.

      To which Labour replied, via Baronnes Prosser (a Labour life peer), that it was said it was “completely silly” just to focus on one group.

      This from the party who for 90 years believed that its aim was “to secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof”

    36. icyspark says:

      And another one just for you McTernan.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLuGIy3C7kw

    37. Brian Powell says:

      One big question is; why do they keep taking him on to give advice?

    38. Jim Mitchell says:

      Be fair, we all make mistakes, lol.

    39. ben says:

      @pitchfork Shadenfreude?

    40. fred blogger says:

      they oppose the view, that we all have a human right to reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life, coz it hurts their portfolios.
      http://www.allofusfirst.org/

    41. Stoker says:

      Murphy? McTernan? McDougall? – 3 Words – Arrogant London Gophers.

    42. heedtracker says:

      As much use as a fart in a space suit.

    43. Macca73 says:

      Popcorn anyone?

    44. Macart says:

      Heh, Karma can be a bugger right enough. 🙂

    45. heedtracker says:

      John McTernan works at Burger King and is former political secretary at 10 Downing Street and was director of communications for former prime minister of Australia Julia Gillard. He writes The Last Word column on Progress and tweets @johnmcternan and he’s lovin it.

    46. Tinto Chiel says:

      McT’s not so much a wurst as a wiener, and my freude has never been so schaden.

      Well, that’s my four German words used up. I feel better now.

      Starting Italian tomorrow.

      Ciao.

    47. iheartScotland says:

      @Grouse Beater,
      I live in Aus. and I can tell you that the whole stewardship of McTiernan was a total and complete disaster. Infighting, backstabbing etc. Labour hasn’t recovered yet.It has led to the most right wing government Australia has ever had in it’s history.

    48. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      you should show some respect for the slab chief of staff. The man is a genius and has to stay on to guide Kez and JaBa to victory in SE16.
      Anyhow SLAB will not be able to afford the penalty clauses in his contract to sack him.
      McTernan must stay.

    49. bookie from hell says:

      New SNP members taking Dennis Skinners seat H.O.C is immature and pathetic

      name-shame

    50. Black Joan says:

      I seem to recall that “McTernan Predicts” was revealed tweeting from Newcastle upon Tyne late on election night. No hanging around in Scotland to share in defeat for Murphy’s courageous “Chief of Staff”. Since then, he seems to have discovered the disable location feature on his Twitter account.

    51. Grouse Beater says:

      Q: How can a political strategist get it so wrong?
      A: By having absolutely no skills as a political strategist.

      Q: But he must have convinced somebody?
      A: Yes, that’s true. Labour in Scotland, to give him a job.

      A snake oil salesman knows he sells sugerolly water. He relies on you believing him that it’s a cure for all ills. Sooner or later the word gets around it’s sugarolly water. Confronted with the truth the salesman will deny it to his dying breath.

    52. galamcennalath says:

      Like a salesman who hasn’t been keeping up with developments telling us VHS will make a comeback! Their product is just fine but has been abandoned temporarily by the public who have had their heads turned by something new and flashy which won’t last. Honest, it’s back to VHS any time soon. I make a firm prediction! 😉

    53. Midgehunter says:

      It’s our Schadenfreude because Slab is a Sauhaufen. (Important word for bulls*****g with friends and collegues, man of the world stuff.) 🙂

    54. Alex Waugh says:

      I note that, while in Australia, McTernan was described as ‘thinker-in-residence’. At this point I am holding my sides as I PMSL. Thinker???!!!

    55. heedtracker says:

      I come to bury creepy Jim, not to praise him because he thinks in pictures sez Kez.

      https://archive.is/cdpgu

      I’ve heard people say he thinks in pictures, if it’s true, it’s a painting of a fairer Scotland, where every child has an equal chance, where the creation of wealth is a good and noble thing as long as it’s shared.
      The sun will be shining and someone somewhere will be opening a can of Irn Bru.

      This article originally appeared in the Daily Record on 18th May although it could another BBC Scotlandshire gotcha, like what the London Times idiots fell for.

    56. ronnie anderson says:

      On seat eviction in HoC ,can Dennis Skinner claim Grandfathers Rights lol.

    57. Midgehunter says:

      Oops! I forgot my “a” – colleague 🙁

    58. Breastplate says:

      Pitchfork, I think the German word you are looking for could be “kunt”.

    59. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      For VHS to make a comeback, it must have gone away. When did that happen? I still have 3 working VHS recorders.

      Mind you, I did wonder why all those shops were using prerecorded tapes as a loss-leader @ 4 for a pound…

    60. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Or Arschlöch…

    61. Big Jock says:

      Someone described trying to revive Slabour as” Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic”.

      I think Scotish Labours fate is similar to the UK’s. They are trying to save something which has no purpose or relevance to modern Scotland. Whether it happens in 2 years or 10 years. The union is finished and so is Labour in Scotland.

      There is simply no need for Labour anymore. They represent the past nd SNP the future. Scotland represents our future while the UK represents our past.

      Both are doomed, and as Irvine Welsh so aptly put this:” What we are doing now is corpse fucking”.

    62. Now's the Hour says:

      One word: LOSER.

    63. Stevie boy says:

      Mr Know it all.. hahahaha!!!

    64. Heidstaethefire says:

      Aye, Syd, he has his finger on the pulse, but the corpse is dead.

    65. geeo says:

      Did i hear correctly that some unions are looking to back the SNP ?

      Telly was background noise earlier but sure i heard something like that ..

    66. Effijy says:

      Does anyone seriously think that Thatcherite McTernan isn’t being sponsored by the Tory Party?

      I can see that we Wossers have the man’s character nailed down by watching and listening to the garbage he has spouted in the links above.

      Why on earth does the Labour party not have anyone in office who can see through him and see how each and every one of his “predictions” has shown complete mismanagement?

      Have you heard the new Labour plan that anyone on the electoral role can pay £3.00 to join them and get a vote on who their next leader is?

      I fear the Tories have enough money to sponsor another vote for Ed Miliband!

      Would Labour notice if they were tricked again?

    67. Fergus Green says:

      @pitchfork 12:23

      Try this German word:

      Scheizkopf

    68. heedtracker says:

      Song for John or Jim, the man with the plan, the fifteen dollar bill in his hand

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL5wei4phz0

    69. ronnie anderson says:

      Never take a Pulse on ah deed wrist wie ah battery watch on it Mr Mc Teirenerse.

    70. proudscot says:

      Pitchfork 12.23, Could the German word you are looking for be “dumkopf”?

    71. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Maybe a bit pedantic, but, should that first front-bench seat past the one reserved for the “official opposition” front-bench team not be reserved for the Father of the House, if he is a member of the opposition.

      In the case of the current party, that seat ought to be reserved for Sir Gerald Kaufman. He will be otherwise engaged for the next wee while, overseeing the election of Mr Speaker.

      The SNP maybe ought to leave that seat alone, but sit as a bloc next to it and behind it.

      OK, they are there to raise Hell, but, they will still have to forge alliances against the Tories, so, no need to go overboard with upsetting the English – you know how they love their ancient customs.

    72. G H Graham says:

      McTernan, eh?

      As sharp as a chalk pencil.

    73. ben says:

      Ive learned many german words today. However i am uncertain how many of them can be used in polite german society. Up to and including “kunt”

    74. bookie from hell says:

      It seems Dennis Skinner has kept his traditional seat, next to the pony-tailed SNP MP Chris Law.

    75. Alastair says:

      Murphy

      Well some comments on the demise of Jim Murphy Bsc (failed), Chair NUS (failed), Westminster politician (failed), Leader of Scottish Labour (failed). (Thanks Dug)
      But, there has been a symmetry to Murphy’ career.

      While leader of NUS a corrupt bullying self centred vote for the introduction of tuition fees. Imagine it, a students forum bullied to introduce fees on themselves – to who’s benefit – only Murphy as it was the route to job from the Labour Party.
      To
      A corrupt bullying of the Scottish Labour Party NEC with a fully manipulated vote rig – the chair voted, a Non MP voted as an actual MP, a Baroness from the Lords with connection with the Friend of Israel group with Murphy and ex MI6 represents the no Labour MP’s left in Scotland and Murphy voted for himself. Am I losing all sanity.

      Should we have sympathy with Mr Murphy – I suggest you read the letter targeted at the pensioners in his constituency scaring them , bullying them , threatening them with the lose of their UK pension and a reduction of their pension of nearly a grand a year. Shamefully below the belt cheap shot. You went gutter for your own gain. Take your pain.

      But it’s still everybody else’s fault.

      There are no so blind as those who cannot see.

      O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
      To see oursels as others see us!
      It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
      An’ foolish notion.
      Burns

    76. Mcternan's stuka flight says:

      When I think of McTernan’s god-given talent, It appears to be to make his parties popularity dive like an elephant flying a Stuka, while he believes it soars like the gods to Olympus.

    77. velofello says:

      @ bookie from hell: it is the House of Commons is that is pathetic.

      People required to be uniformed in silly clothes, archaic customs – “your sitting in my seat”, segregation of workers and the MPs, the Black Rod nonsense. And a Prime Minister shouting across a table at the opposition whilst his team behind him bawl and shout, but “one mustn’t applaud in the chamber”.

      Some unelected guy called Dunlop, a town councillor in England, made a peer so he can work in the Scotland Office, isn’t that much more pathetic, and insulting?

    78. David says:

      Surely the worst political strategist there is. Chased out of Australia and now should be chased out of Scotland.

    79. Lollysmum says:

      As labour is done for in both England & Scotland, Murphy, McTernan & McDougal are surplus to requirements i.e. redundant, moribund,leftovers, unnecessary, not needed, superfluous, excess baggage,uncalled for, disused,past it, on their last legs, time expired, declining -if that’s at all possible given their combined track records.

      I’ve used every word I can think of right now to get across the message that they are yesterday’s men.Will that message be understood? Well none of them are the sharpest tools in the box so I doubt it but I did enjoy typing it up 🙂

    80. Fred says:

      @ call me dave, auld Bercow Bilers fetch good money in the Hielans fur bilin stags heids. Do you still have it?

      Anent a career for Murphy, he has an undertakers face if ever ah seen wan.

    81. gillie says:

      Team Murphy will be looking new jobs. Any recommendations?

    82. galamcennalath says:

      Regarding the grabbing of seats in WM, today Ronnie Campbell Lab said of the SNP, “do they think they’re more left wing than the Labour Party?”

      Where has he been recently?

    83. Tamson says:

      @bookie from hell:

      Skinner was one of the Labour MPs who supported the Cunningham Amendment way back in 79, IIRC. Karma?

    84. K1 says:

      Well said velofello!

    85. K1 says:

      Lollysmum…you mean like the ‘norwegian blue’…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

    86. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi ben.

      BTW: I inserted an aberrant umlaut in my previous mention of ‘Arschloch’.

      A use in everyday German could be,
      Letzte Nacht Curry war zu scharf. Mein Arschloch ist auf Feuer.

      Which in English would be,

      “Last night’s curry was rather spicy. My rear quarters are on fire.”

    87. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Good to see the SNP did not try to kick Sir Gerald or Denis Skinner out of their seats.

      But, watching on the parliament channel – what a pantomime.

    88. One_Scot says:

      The man is an absolute balloon.

    89. Dr Jim says:

      @Lollysmum

      Dead Parrots

    90. Tronnis says:

      Pitchfork, the word your looking for is “Besserwisser”. He is one…

    91. Graeme Doig says:

      Murphy? McTernan? McDougall? – 3 Words – Arrogant London Gophers.

      Spot on Stoker.

      3 tossers playing power games with folks lives. Well and truly spanked by the Scottish people.

    92. Brian Powell says:

      Labour twitterati in a high state of lather and froth at the first day in Parliament and anything, but anything, the SNP MPs do.

    93. MorvenM says:

      For those with a soft spot for Denis Skinner, here’s a reminder:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/36-years-of-discontent/

      Scroll down to Appendix.

    94. pitchfork says:

      who knew the german language had so many words? 🙂

    95. Stevie says:

      I despise the bstrd

    96. starlaw says:

      Murphy McTernan and McDougall could find gainful employment as professional Mourners at funerals and cremations.

    97. CameronB Brodie says:

      pitchfork @ 12:23pm
      Was it Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz? I see where you’re coming from. 😉

    98. Free Scotland says:

      I’m not sure why, but when I listen to McTernan, Murphy, McDougall or Dugdale, it leaves me feeling as if I’ve just been savaged by a dead sheep.

    99. TheItalianJob says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      How about Salami.

    100. Gregor says:

      The word “Tit” springs to mind.

    101. Algernon Pondlife says:

      More “Castles Made of Sand” than “Voodoo Chile”.

    102. Tinto Chiel says:

      @TheItalianJob.

      The Right Honorable Member might say that, but I couldn’t possibly comment.

      Finding out all about salami tomorrow.

      Meanwhile, I found some more German words down the back of the settee: Ich bin ein Berliner.

      @CameronB Brodie: I’m impressed, and I’m not easily impressed…

    103. gordoz says:

      A great Labour sage indeed 🙂

      Trouble is with no soul comes no turmoil or guilt for being a diddy.

    104. carjamtic says:

      Gillie@2:42 pm

      Spoilt for choice,but off the top of my head

      1.Ghost Train ‘Operatives’ (discounts for oap’s,unemployed etc.)
      2.Mushroom Farmers (nuff said)
      3.Cheese Toaster’s (trivia : Q. Why is one of the team aka ‘Cheddar’. A. Bubbles when grilled)
      4.Yoghurt Bacteria Injection (trivia : Q. Why is one of the team aka ‘Heidi’. A. Milking the system for years)
      5.Human (?)Sun Blockers
      6.Lance Armstrong Promotions (Nike have made a statement regarding withdrawal of sponsorship for LA ‘Obviously we don’t want the kids making our shoes in overcrowded sweatshops for 10p a day to feel they are associated with drug cheats’)
      7.Window mannequins in Tam Shepherd’s Joke Shop

      The rest are too rude for a family show. 😉

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tinto Chiel
      Thanks, but I’m really a cheat. I don’t actually speak German, appart from some naughty words taught to me by German girlfriends. 😉

      Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
      (das, 63 letters) “beef labeling regulation & delegation of supervision law”
      This was a 1999 German Word of the Year, and it also won a special award as the longest German word for that year. It refers to a “law for regulating the labeling of beef” – all in one word, which is why it is so long. German also likes abbreviations, and this word has one: ReÜAÜG.

      http://german.about.com/library/blwort_long.htm

    106. Macca73 says:

      McTernan doesn’t know any other weapon other than fear.

    107. Graeme Doig says:

      Change.org petition by CND to pardon Trident whistleblower.

      Tried to copy link.

    108. Tinto Chiel says:

      @CBB.

      You won’t get far by being honest, young man: look what happened to Jim Murphy.

    109. Iain says:

      McTernan is a sad case – I mean that quite sincerely. Sure, he’s a political adversary and behaved as a particularly nasty one, but he does deserve our pity, because the ferocity of his blind devotion to the Labour Party – for which his parents are to blame – and his bitterness towards its opponents have destroyed his life. What is there left for him now? It’s a lesson: have your political opinion, be enthusiastic, active, ever hopeful and ready for the next campaign, but leave room in your mind for other thoughts, other people, and other things.

    110. James Morris says:

      @headtracker
      “I believe he thinks in pictures”
      FYI Profoundly Deaf People do indeed think in pictures. Jim Murphy’s problem wasnt not hearing, it was not listening.

    111. G4jeepers says:

      Ball-Tasche…

    112. Geoff Huijer says:

      Agree with Iain @ 4.54pm

      The sad thing is that newspapers & TV programmes
      still seek his opinion regardless of the fact he is
      found out to be mostly wrong about things.

    113. jcd says:

      Iain (4.54)

      Yes I could hardly sleep last night worrying about the poor thing. sarc off/

      A good swift boot in the balls more like, several in fact would be more in order for that filthy creature, metaphorically of course

    114. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      “Aus Schaden wird man klug.”

      Failure makes smart

      Hiya Ian.

    115. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      McTernan is quite possibly the most incompetent spinner in modern politics.

      Not satisfied with the colossal and hilarious car-crash that was his ‘adventure’ in Australian politics he’s done the same for Murphy and ‘scottish’ Labour. 😀

    116. T222Deracha says:

      Sorry O/T, BBC Scotland with zero pictures of new SNP members in the HOC. Photos of Mundell and some other twit.
      Time to crash the Beeb, no longer fit for the people of Scotland!

    117. Pam McMahon says:

      Dear God, they don’t need real jobs – they’ll all be busy writing (pre-remaindered) books.
      How an Enlightend Electorate Ruined My Career might be a good title for one of them…or any of them, I guess.

    118. annie says:

      You know it’s all very well having a laugh about McTernan but you have to seriously ask what on earth is going on at Labour when they know what he is like, how often he gets it wrong and they still put him in position of influence. They simply deserve what they get.

    119. proudscot says:

      Doesn’t anyone feel even just a teeny bit sorry for the defeated trio, Creepy Jim and his two sinister henchmen Tarantula McTernan and Tuba McDougall? Nope – me neither!

    120. Blair paterson says:

      I see labour and the lib,dems are claiming they have people joining them and are quoting how many in labours case they say three thousand ? But they are not saying how many thousand have left them.

    121. CatSilver says:

      I’ll give Labour rotten political advice for £50,000 and a basket of kittens.

    122. TheItalianJob says:

      @Blair Paterson

      Count me in one of the thousands that left them last year.

      They still phoned me and sent me new membership applications at least 4 times before they got the message.

      Didn’t even consult me on why I left and I even once campaigned as a local candidate in elections for them.

    123. Aceldo Atthis says:

      If Scottish Labour broke away from the UK mob, and decided it was pro-independence…. ?

    124. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      STV had ‘film’ from the HOC.

      What stood out, head and shoulders above everything else, was Chris Law parking his bum on the front bench.

    125. Glamaig says:

      First day of parliament. The BBC Scotland Politics page has 18 articles and features. Only 1 mentions the SNP, its a guide to the new SNP MPs which has been up since the 10th of May.

      Whatever this is, its not reporting. The BBC are living in a parallel universe.

    126. One_Scot says:

      Is it just me, or is everyone in Scotland now just desperate for IndyRef2.

    127. Midgehunter says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “Hi ben.

      BTW: I inserted an aberrant umlaut in my previous mention of ‘Arschloch’.

      A use in everyday German could be,

      Letzte Nacht Curry war zu scharf. Mein Arschloch ist auf Feuer.”
      ——————–
      That was a good go but try this:

      “Letzte Nacht war meinen Curry zu scharf, jetzt brennt mein Arschloch.”

      I’m having a bit of a pedantic mood today, Frankfurt only drew with Berlin on Saturday. Twats.

    128. Fiona says:

      @ One_~Scot

      Not just you, but not a majority yet, I don’t think. It is easy to get the wrong impression hanging about in here 🙂

    129. Midgehunter says:

      meiner Curry – I didn’t have my Duden switched on to check it 🙁

    130. Eddie Munster says:

      O/T

      I guess with the talk of how bad the Subs are in the Royal Navy, the new saying is now “I see no leaks!”

    131. K1 says:

      Here’s McTernan at a ‘fringe meeting of the Conservative Party conference in late September 2014, as part of a panel for the right-wing think-tank Policy Exchange’

      “If business is less trusted than politicians then ‘we’ve’ got some real difficulties. Because, I’m a Labour party member, I’m a social democrat, I’m very relaxed about capitalism, because we need capitalism to create the wealth that we need to distribute and redistribute. We’ve got a crisis at the moment, which is deeper than simply people not trusting banks.”

      He goes on to say that Populus produced some polling figures that said 50% the population (I presume he is meaning UK), thinks that the greatest threat to Britain and the future of Britain, is ‘big business’, 19% think that the trade unions is (the biggest threat).

      “That is a very very bad figure for anybody who cares about the future of the country” He waffles a bit here about brands and supermarkets being more ‘trusted’ by people…hard to follow his thinking or what point he making.

      But he goes on…to give advice to the Tory’s about what he would have done to basically undermine the Labour party: Whilst referencing Thomas Pickity’s ‘Capital in the 21st Century, a blockbuster seller in the USA by all accounts:

      “If I’d been in Number 10 working for the prime minister, I would have said ‘get Pickity in…make a speech, get him to say: ‘this is serious, this is a serious concern when a book about inequality is the best selling non fiction book in the United States. There’s a big issue here, and that we the Conservative Party understand this issue better than anyone else. We’re not gonna let the Labour Party own equality ‘n inequality, they can’t manage the economy, they’ve shown that, why would you trust them to manage equality or inequality?

      We’re the only party that can deal with inequality, and I think the failure of the Tory party to make a march into the area of equality and poverty and redistribution was a failure of imagination actually, not a failure of nerve. Because I don’t think people even thought about (it), and then said no, we won’t do it. They simply didn’t think about it.”

      He waffles on a bit more…then this:

      “We need a broader sense of ownership and a broader sense of assets that people own and that people actively manage. I think that’s part the solution that would solve a huge problem with whatever your calling ‘good’ or ‘bad’ capitalists(ism) from ‘predatory’ capitalists(ism). And we’ve got a huge issue with ‘people’s view’ on their return on capital versus their return on labour. But part of the resolution of this is not simply getting the markets to work more effectively. It’s actually to get people to ‘own things’ more effectively.”

      These are just snippets from this video. The strong impression I am left with is not of a man who is steeped in the traditions of the Labour party. It is of a man who is completely at ease with the current paradigm of the ‘ownership’class and it’s aims which are completely at odds with the ‘working class’.

      John McTernan does not display any ‘blind devotion’ to the Labour Party. McTernan has blind devotion to who ever the highest bidder is. He is a ‘predatory’ capitalist, it’s why he’s so versed in his religion; he is masquerading as a Labour party supporter. When in fact he’s a perfect little Tory boy drone.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1QyAcQBJE

    132. galamcennalath says:

      Aceldo Atthis says:
      “If Scottish Labour broke away from the UK mob, and decided it was pro-independence…. ?”

      If they had a full brain between the lot of them, they would have done that years ago.

      So, literally brainless wonders.

    133. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Speaking of hilariously out of touch losers, is Hothersall still living in denial deep in his Blairite bunker? Or does he seriously think losing every Labour MP bar one in scotland was a triumph for his right-wing red tory spinning? 😀

    134. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Speaking of hilariously out of touch losers, is Hothersall still living in denial deep in his Blairite bunker? 😉

      And does he seriously think losing every MP bar one in scotland was a triumph for his right-wing red tory spinning? 🙂

      You would need a heart of stone not to laugh at the odious Blairites these days.

      LOL 😀

    135. David Anderson says:

      What makes me laugh is his statements aren’t about what might happen, this bamstick is either just plain stupid or that egotistical he actually believes he knows what is going to happen in all these circumstances. No if or buts, McTernan delivers categorically his absolute inability to read the politcal runes. The tinternet is a wondrous thing for now accumulating such a litany of dumbness over a period of time and all concerning big political events. He never fails to fail to deliver a correct prediction. Whoever employs him next needs their decision-making capacity questioned.

    136. K1 says:

      Just to put a little bit of ‘context’ around the ‘fear’ that McTeran expressed about Picketty’s book from a ‘Conservative’ point of view, here is a wee snippet of a review of said book:

      ‘Conservative readers will find that Piketty’s book disputes the view that the free market, liberated from the distorting effects of government intervention, “distributes,” as Milton Friedman famously put it, “the fruits of economic progress among all people. That’s the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.”

      Piketty proposes instead that the rise in inequality reflects markets working precisely as they should: “This has nothing to do with a market imperfection: the more perfect the capital market, the higher” the rate of return on capital is in comparison to the rate of growth of the economy. The higher this ratio is, the greater inequality is.’

    137. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Speaking of hilariously out of touch losers, is Hothersall still living in denial deep in his Blairite bunker? 😉

      And does he seriously think losing every MP bar one in scotland was a triumph for his right-wing red tory spinning? 🙂

      You would need a heart of stone not to laugh at these odious Blairites now.

      LOL 😀

    138. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      are the comments forked?? :/

    139. Fergus Green says:

      ‘You knobhead’ in German is ‘du Knopfkopf’

    140. K1 says:

      Very funny…:-)

      John McTernan creates SNP landslide…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVt6GV3inWY

    141. Jim Chalmers says:

      Iain Gray’s Subway Lament says:
      18 May, 2015 at 5:26 pm
      McTernan is quite possibly the most incompetent spinner in modern politics.

      McTernan isn’t a failure at all. He’s an enormously successful far right-wing plant into left(ish)-wing parties in several countries.

    142. Marcia says:

      I hadn’t realised that there were seat reservations in the Commons Chamber until someone above pointed that out. The person feeling a bit miffed was one of the Labour MP’s who backed the 40% rule for the 1979 referendum. Did he get at least 40% of the vote in Bolsover? No. He obtained the votes of 31% of his constituency.

    143. Valerie says:

      OT Kirsten Oswald posted a pic obviously taken when the HoC was sat down.

      Also funny reading how they had a Rota of SNP on seat guarding duty, to make sure Angus Robertson had a front seat, for when he made his speech. Also, they wanted to make sure they were sat behind Harman, so the SNP ties and badges got into shot.

      Chris Law is going to come in very handy! I feel very proud of them all, although I said to my MP, he is going to have to sharpen his elbows!

    144. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says: 18 May, 2015 at 2:18 pm

      ” … OK, they are there to raise Hell, but, they will still have to forge alliances against the Tories, so, no need to go overboard with upsetting the English.”

      Methinks the SNP contingent, by just being south of Berwick, are very much upsetting the English.

    145. Paula Rose says:

      Tweets from SNP MPs say Chris Law and the Beast of Bolster (giggle I’ll leave the spell check version) got on fine. Tweets from political pundits and the Labour Party suggest a war has broken out, who to believe?

    146. galamcennalath says:

      Valerie says:
      “I feel very proud of them all”

      Indeed. We all should be. As far as I am concerned we sent 56 MPs to the Midden to create as much construction disruption as possible! Today they got off to a good start! 😉

    147. IvMoz says:

      Chris Law could snap Skinner like a twig. I wish he had today

      I’ve no respect for Skinner, he should be shoved out of what he thinks is “his” seat.

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @annie says: 18 May, 2015 at 5:32 pm:

      “You know it’s all very well having a laugh about McTernan but you have to seriously ask what on earth is going on at Labour when they know what he is like, how often he gets it wrong and they still put him in position of influence.”

      Well, Annie, I would hazard an educated guess that McTerman was telling Labour what Labour wanted to hear not what was best for Labour to do.

    149. Valerie says:

      I think the SNP contingent will be absolutely fine, and will be polite but assertive. They know they are being judged, and they know they are making history.

      Ive never seen anything nasty about the previous 6 that were there, and they will want to continue in that vein, whilst like today with the seating, making their points that they are the 3rd party.

      While we are waiting, this contingent will do their best to try and wrest us additional powers, and make sure people know what Scotland stands for.

      I’ve noticed a lot of nasty, vitriolic chat on the various FB pages AGAIN. TBH, I’m not even going to engage anymore, as there are some folk that just want to demean and fight about Scotland – and they live down south.

      I don’t get it, as I would never have the nerve to tell them what their politics should be.

    150. Rock says:

      O/T

      Our 56 SNP MPs must vote against the repeal of the law outlawing foxhunting.

      Not only will it prevent barbarism against defenseless animals, it will result in massive attacks on the SNP by The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Telegraph and other extreme right wing publications.

      Which will result in the SNP getting massive support in South Britain of the majority there which is against foxhunting.

    151. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Cameron B Pallymeenaglesga dont do german lol.

    152. Phronesis says:

      Narcissistic personality disorder refers to an individual whose ‘sense of self importance is generally extravagant, and they demand attention and admiration. Concern for others is typically absent. They often appear arrogant, exploitative and entitled’.It does affect 1% of the population-could this political advisor and his allies be suffering from this? They are after all the 1%.

      Steinbeck wrote (Grapes of Wrath) ‘the story tellers, gathering attention into their tales, spoke in great rhythms, spoke in great words because the tales were great and the listeners became great through them’.Scotland has listened, found its collective voice and is telling a great story- we are only half way through the tale.

    153. Dr Jim says:

      To be fair to many English folk they don’t understand the nature of what’s going on
      Like my own relatives, they believe Scotland has it’s own Government so what are these extra powers we’re getting

      The Yookay Government and media hasn’t explained any of this to the ordinary person in the street because it plays into their agenda of grievance against the Scots

      My own relatives truly believe we want more than them and that we’re just greedy
      For as much as I’ve tried to explain to them they don’t get it
      They really believe we get all our money from English taxes
      because we have no economy, all there is, is oil and that’s run out now so that’s why we’re making all the fuss

      Now these people are my own relatives as I’ve said,but they worry about my welfare up here in this terrible place even though I am born and bred Scottish (my mum was English)
      and she lived here for 58 years but in all that time even she thought all we had was lovely hills and mountains but no income (it’s really just a holiday place)

      What can you say?

    154. IvMoz says:

      @ The Rock 9:03pm

      I totally agree, the SNP has to use it’s influence against the evil & barbaric issue of foxhunting.

      It makes me question the mentality of the Tories to consider introducing a vote on this during this parliament.

      Peeple are struggling without a living wage.

      People are visiting food banks.

      Housing issues.

      The threat from IS.

      The UK is divided politically as never before.

      Our membership of the EU will be at stake.

      The “Scotland” problem!

      Etc, etc.

      What’s a Tory priority? – a vote on foxhunting.

      Bizarre.

    155. Lollysmum says:

      K1 & Dr Jim
      Thanks for the reminder about the dead parrot-suits them to a T 🙂

    156. Paula Rose says:

      @ IvMoz – its not bizarre, it’s about ownership and who rules. Not a priority but bound to distract while the dismantling continues apace.

    157. X_Sticks says:

      O/T for a bit of light relief for political anoraks you can see the party leader speeches at the opening of HoC.

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/7527f1cc-a1e3-44c7-b1b8-02baaceeb073

      Approximate times for the more interesting speeches:

      13:50 David Cameron
      14:00 Harriet Harman
      14:04 Angus Robertson
      14:11 Alastair Carmichael

      Angus is very good as always, and Carmichael is the usual buffoon.

    158. Louis B Argyll says:

      @IvMoz…
      There’s always a payoff when appeasing the “gentry”..
      They’ll be trying to get the “country side alliance” to back fracking and planning applications in return for foxhunting and slavery (immigrant only work farms).

    159. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 18 May, 2015 at 9:19 pm:

      “To be fair to many English folk they don’t understand the nature of what’s going on … What can you say?

      You could try the stuff I’ve been posting for ages, Dr Jim.

      Point out there is no such thing as a legal parliament of England – Westminster is the UK Government – and so the UK Treasury is not English either.

      So the UK Treasury is funded by UK taxpayers, not just Englanders, and each person in the UK, not just in England, pays tax according to UK tax rules and rates.

      Each is entitled to getting out the same per capita sum.(That’s what Barnett’s Formula does). So that tax they claim as English is actually UK taxpayer’s money the N. Irish, Welsh and Scots are members of the UK as are the English. We all pay in and we all get out.

      You can leave the bit about England, being funded as the UK, getting more than her fair share until after their slow brains absorb the first bit.

    160. Dr Ew says:

      Russell Grant / Mystic Meg – shitting themselves.

    161. Dr Ew says:

      Sorry – pissing themselves.

    162. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Dr Jim at 9.19

      That is the final frontier. In the final analysis it doesn’t matter what policies and positions we take up we have to establish we are self supporting and then we win

    163. Connor McEwen says:

      Do the easy ones first.
      I think that was the same law that Holyrood did at the start.
      Foxhunting first.
      Wait until the 5th year for the difficult ones.
      But now is the time to forget labour and attack Mundane [mundel]
      IDS,GOVE and Osborne as appropriate
      Dick Dastardly Cameron and Muttley Osborne.
      Knew I should have voted Labour to keep Cons. out.

    164. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Rock, you’re gibberin’ braille.

      The foxhunting repeal vote, which affects England and Wales only, is an ideal trap set, on something virtually unimportant, for the SNP to fall into, by voting on it.

      If the SNP are to vote on ‘English only’ issues, they should start with something of more consequence to Scotland than foxhunting, which isn’t.

      If the SNP MP’s vote on this, rather than abstaining, the Anglo-centric MSM will have a field day of anti-SNP propaganda.

      So they must abstain – and I type as someone who is against the barbaric practice.

    165. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @ Dr Jim, 9.19 pm

      I too have Scottish relatives living in England who think along the same lines, and they have fallen out with my Mum (aged 68) because she voted Yes and voted SNP.

      It’s totally depressing and sad. My mum is certainly feeling sad about it. That makes me sad, and infuriated.They just cannot be reasoned with. They just don’t want to know. My Mum is not a political animal and struggles to articulate the arguments. She just knows what she feels, and what she wants is a decent future for her grandchildren. She also trusts my “more informed” assessment. Hence her Yes and SNP votes.

      I hold the media and the neo-con corporate stranglehold upon it, entirely responsible for the lies and propaganda that has divided families in this way, and allowed delusion and fear and ignorance to prevail.

      I am desperately hoping that through the actions and words of the SNP MPs at Westminster, more people in England will gradually come to understand what has happened here – i.e. Scotland’s political awakening – and that more and more eyes will be opened to the corrupt and malign control of those who rule over us and manipulate us for their own greed and megalomania.

      We have some excellent English Wingers on here, and others like Billy Bragg and the Artist Taxi Driver, George Monbiot etc, who are helping enormously to counter the crap in the wider sphere. I feel a debt of gratitude to these people! (Rev Stu especially for WoS in the first place).

      In the meantime all we can do is keep talking and reasoning with our own family members and friends until they become convinced that we haven’t in fact, all “gone off our rockers”.

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      As things seem a wee bit quiet on here at present perhaps a wee explanation of how Scotland lost and regained her independence the first time may be in order.

      Scottish Independence
      When Alexander III died in 1286, his granddaughter Margaret, daughter of King Eric of Norway, was his nearest relative. The seven guardians of Scotland negotiated to bring her to Scotland and to marry her to Edward son of Edward I. In August 1290 the four remaining guardians got a written guarantee of Scotland’s independence from Edward I.

      However, Margaret drowned in a shipwreck in Kirkwall, (then in Norway) en route to Scotland. This left the contenders for the throne, John Balliol and Robert Bruce, (grandfather of the future king), as contenders to the throne. Civil war loomed and the guardians asked Edward I of England to arbitrate between the two main contenders.

      In May 1291 Edward I announced that he is overlord of Scotland and then he gets more people to claim the throne who are prepared to recognise his overlordship. John Balliol is the last of these claimants. Royal castles are handed over to Edward I. Who presided as overlord of Scotland over a court case to decide who is king. The jury are made up of equal numbers of mainly Balliol and Bruce supporters. The majority decided for Balliol.

      John Balliol is crowned king and does homage to Edward I, as his overlord. Balliol claims Edward I’s guarantees of Scottish independence are null and void. Edward I enforces his overlordship, hearing appeals against decisions by King John and the Scottish parliament. Then, In 1294, Edward 1. summons Balliol and the Scottish nobles to fight in the English army against the French – but they refuse.

      In 1295 the Scots (mostly the Comyns), worried that Balliol can’t be trusted to stand up to Edward I, appoint a council of twelve to govern Scotland and form a treaty with France against Edward I. Edward I invades Scotland to enforce his rule. Scottish knights make little resistance and Edward I marches through Scotland as far north as Elgin.

      He leaves Scotland to be run by English officials and these do get stiff resistance led by William Wallace and the kingdom is mostly liberated. However, at this point, the Scots are fighting to restore King, John Balliol, that Edward had removed. Then, In 1303, Edward I leads his army to Elgin and, 1304, the Scottish government, led by Balliol’s son-in-law, John (the Red) Comyn, surrendered and in 1305 Edward settled how the conquered Scotland will be governed.

      In 1306 Robert Bruce kills John (the Red) Comyn and seizes the throne, but is soon defeated and flees. He returns in 1307 and begins a highly successful campaign against the Comyns, (the most powerful family in Scotland), who regard John Balliol, not Bruce, as their king. In 1307 Edward 1. dies while leading an army against Bruce. The North-East power-base of the Comyns in Buchan is ravaged by Bruce’s forces.

      1310 – 1314, Edward II’s campaign in Scotland fails, and Bruce’s forces capture and destroy all remaining major castles still in English hands. Then Edward II leads another army into Scotland but is soundly defeated at Bannockburn and Bruce is now master of Scotland.

      1312 – 1314 Edward II won’t recognise Bruce as an independent king and Bruce raids Northern England while his brother, Edward, leads an invasion of Ireland, (then partly an English colony). In 1320 Bruce organises the Scottish barons to send, “The Declaration of Arbroath”, to the Pope making the case for Scottish independence. Bruce, though, still faces serious trouble as the wounds of the civil war have not healed and in 1320 a conspiracy to assassinate Bruce is brutally crushed.

      1323–1329: A truce with England begins, and a treaty of alliance with France is agreed. The teenage King Edward III becomes king of England in 1327. and Bruce pressurises the weak English government and, the Treaty of Edinburgh – Northampton (1328) formally recognise Bruce as king of an independent Scotland. Bruce dies in 1329 before hearing that the Pope, too, has recognised him as king of an independent Scotland.

      1332–1335: Bruce was succeeded by David II, (only five years old), and by 1332 most of King Robert’s old leading supporters were dead. There were still some Scots who supported Balliol who had died long ago. His son, Edward Balliol now came to prominence and, leading a band of knights into Fife, briefly becoming king in 1332. In 1333 Edward Balliol returned, supported by Edward III. And the Bruce supporters were defeated and many killed but David II was taken to France to safety.

      In 1334, Edward Balliol was again king, and for his help he gave the south of Scotland (including Edinburgh) to Edward III of England.

      1335-1341: – The last Bruce leaders in the field were Robert Stewart in Bute and Andrew Murray in the North and Andrew Murray led a brutal and successful campaign which turned the tide. Then, in 1337, Edward III of England began invading France, and Edward Balliol, without English support, fled and, In 1341, David II returns from France.

      After 1341, The wars never formally ended and there was no treaty where the king of England recognised the king of Scotland as an independent monarch but the conquest for Scotland was no longer being fought over and the last reigning king of England that invaded Scotland was Henry IV in 1400. although some Scottish strongholds near the border remained in English hands. Roxburgh was finally retaken by the Scots in 1460.

      Berwick, before 1296, had been Scotland’s wealthiest town and between 1296 and 1482 it was more often in English than Scottish hands. After 1482 it remained in England. The continuing hostility with England, and England’s long war with France (1337-1453), meant that Scotland became close allies with France. After Henry V of England won the Battle of Agincourt the main force which prevented him from conquering France was a Scottish army which defeated and killed Henry V’s brother at the battle of Baugé in 1421. This Scottish army was eventually defeated and destroyed at Verneuil in 1424.

    167. Rock says:

      IvMoz,

      “It makes me question the mentality of the Tories to consider introducing a vote on this during this parliament.”

      It is to demonstrate that their paymasters, the bloody hunting and shooting set, are the rulers and the rest are the plebs.

      To any anglers, hunters and fishing enthusiasts on here, please give up such bloody “sports”.

    168. Rock says:

      Morag,

      You were right about Craig Murray.

      I was disgusted when he disclosed that Carmichael has been a personal friend of his for years.

      Like Cameron’s wife and Milliband’s wife are best friends.

      I hope SNP MPs don’t have such cosy relationships with our political opponents.

    169. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “If the SNP are to vote on ‘English only’ issues, they should start with something of more consequence to Scotland than foxhunting, which isn’t.”

      As equal MPs in a UK parliament, our 56 SNP MPs must do the right thing by voting against re-introducing this barbarism.

      Just like they must vote against any right wing Tory policies even if they only affect South Britain.

      That will teach them a lesson for cheating us of our independence.

      “If the SNP MP’s vote on this, rather than abstaining, the Anglo-centric MSM will have a field day of anti-SNP propaganda.”

      And it will backfire as spectacularly as it just did. The vast majority in South Britain is against this barbarism.

      “I type as someone who is against the barbaric practice.”

      You can’t be seiously against this barbaric practice then.

    170. Wuffing Dug says:

      Thanks Robert.

      Knew some of that, now better informed.

    171. Graham MacQueen says:

      Interesting wee thought popped into my head whilst reading some comments above, particularly that written by IheartScotland (@ 1:20), […] It has led to the most right wing government Australia has ever had in it’s history.

      Given that there is next-to-no difference between Labour and Conservatives policies here in the UK, Is it possible that McTernan’s true objective is to push Labour supporters further towards parties of the right? He evidently has the knowhow!

      If so, are the results of the recent election proof of that!

      Are we under the false belief that McTernan’s role as advisor was to improve SLabour’s position when in fact he has been operating on behalf of the Tories from the offset?

      Just a thought: better out than in, as they say!!!!!

    172. @Brian Doonthetoon

      So morality goes out the window for cheap political point scoring are they going to check the foxes passports first to check that are indigenous English foxes so that they can then be torn to shreds for sport. Human rights extend to animals as well only they don’t have a voice except through us and I am using mine through my MP.

    173. Fireproofjim says:

      Robert Peffers
      Excellent history lesson. Wee correction – all the contemporary sources say that Margaret “Maid of Norway” died at Kirkwall, probably of the effects of seasickness, rather than in a shipwreck.

    174. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      You really believe that the Anglo-centric propaganda against a possible deal between Labour and the SNP prior to the GE, and probable anti-SNP propaganda from SNP involvement in the foxhunting vote, are so identical that it “will backfire as spectacularly as it just did”???

      That spectacular backfire you (apparently alone) witnessed will have nothing to do with Labour losing votes left, left and centre in England in the recent general election and the SNP having almost a clean sweep in Scotland – because Scots are thrawn and won’t be told how to think?

      Some backfire…

    175. scotspine says:

      @ Rock

      I disagree with a “sport” where foxes are torn apart by packs of dogs.

      However, I’m an omnivore. I eat many things including meat. I shoot animals (deer) for a variety of reasons. For food, to prevent crop damage and to control numbers (you wouldn’t want the poor creatures starving to death in winter when they compete for food sources in the numbers in which they exist).

      The deer shot have had a life on the hill, free of farming practice’s and free of being herded into slaughter houses where they hear the distress of other animals and can smell blood. The deer shot die in an instant, not knowing fear.

      The “blood sport” industry isn’t the stereotype people make out. Yes, there are hooray henry types, but over and above them, there are many people residing in the country who farm and require pest, vermin and deer control to be carried out to ensure they can make a living and are able to feed the population.

      I will say it again, I am strongly against foxes (or any other animal for that matter) being torn apart, but with regards sweeping statements about “blood sports”, maybe have a closer look at animal husbandry on farms and in slaughter houses first eh?

      I know the animal whose meat I eat had a quick, fear free death.

    176. Paula Rose says:

      Many comments on here are very considered – Rock honey could you read them a couple of times before you reply?

    177. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi scotspine.

      As I understand it, in Scotland, the fox can be smelled out by a pack of hounds and chased, before being shot by a gamie.

      Is that correct?

      If so, does the fox not experience fear, while it is being pursued by the hounds?

      Jiss askin’ like…

    178. Grouse Beater says:

      Bit late to the party:

      All your questions answered about John McTernan:
      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-1iH

    179. Fred says:

      There’s a Scottish angle to the repeal of foxhunting in England, the Scottish hunts will push for the repeal here, the law is not tight enough and is being broken.

      The Tories must be shafted at every opportunity, our MP’s will look like pillocks if they sit on their hands on this issue.

    180. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi cynicalHighlander.

      I still think the foxhunting issue is a trap for less experienced politicians to fall into.

      Morals could be construed as tactical voting on one issue.

      How does that one vote fit in with the strategy of achieving independence?

    181. Rock says:

      All opponents of foxhunting (in England or anywhere else – foxes don’t have nationalities) should write to their SNP MPs to urge them to vote against re-legalising foxhunting in England.

      Our SNP MPs are true democrats – they will act according to the wishes of their constituents. And they will rightly be able to claim the moral high ground.

      They will earn respect not only in Scotland, but also in England.

      This is foremost a matter of progressiveness and decency in society, not political point scoring.

    182. Mealer says:

      I’m content to leave the strategy for dealing with the fox hunting issue in the hands of the SNP leadership.Thats what I elected them for.To look at the bigger picture and make decisions which best suit our aims.

    183. A MacRitchie says:

      Its becoming clear now that the British states new slogan is “presiding over a one nation State”. I think it will be a huge dud like “the big society”. I hope that someone corrects Cameron and tells him he should be saying “presiding over a DONE British nation state”.

      Good on ye Angus Robertson nice opener.

    184. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “Many comments on here are very considered – Rock honey could you read them a couple of times before you reply?”

      Paula, “honey”, “dear”, as a Green what are your views on foxhunting?

      What are your views on whale hunting in the Faroe islands?

      As to the “very considered comments”, as a simple pleb, I do not need to do much considering to reach the conclusion that blood “sports” are barbaric and should be banned in any “civilised” country.

    185. scotspine says:

      @ Brian

      You may well be correct, although we do like to believe animals experience human-like emotions.

      For the record, I’m not into chasing things with dogs for the reason you cite (fear, cruelty etc). I thought I made that clear in my response to Rocks assertion that all hunters are engaged in “blood sports”.

      If there is a problem with foxes predating lambs, hens etc, then they can be dealt with humanely by the application of a well placed bullet. Quick and efficient and as you say and without the fear factor (to humanise it).

    186. Grouse Beater says:

      Friends, please don’t get distracted by the Englishman’s obsession with killing furry critters.

      It’s seriously irrelevant and boring in comparison to Scotland stated hopes, and our nation’s needs.

    187. Rock says:

      scotspine

      “I know the animal whose meat I eat had a quick, fear free death.”

      There is no such thing as a “fear free death” for any animal.

      Do you think animals being taken to the slaughterhouse think they are being taken to a nice retirement home?

      “Blood sports” is killing animals for “sports” or fun. There is no ambiguity about that. A “sport” which the ruling classes engage in.

      The “pest, vermin and deer control” you talk about is not the same thing as “blood sports”.

      The foxhunting ban had the support of the public.

      If the SNP MPs vote against the Tories on this, they will gain respect both here and in England.

    188. scotspine says:

      @Rock

      I’d be interested to know what you consider or define as blood sports?

    189. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “How does that one vote fit in with the strategy of achieving independence?”

      Nicola Sturgeon has made it clear that the election of SNP MPs to Westminster is not a vote for independence.

      She has said that the SNP MPs will act in both Scotland’s and the rest of the UK’s benefit.

      What was all that talk of an anti-Tory progressive government about?

      To break free from the imperial mindset and drag the country to the 21st century.

      To abolish the House of Lords for example.

      This is the ideal opportunity for SNP MPs to vote against the ruling elite and to get the respect of the plebs both here and in England.

    190. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Oh that it were as simple Robert
      To provide an explanation of anything that takes longer than twenty minutes to my Brummie Rellys, especially if it didn’t come with Savaloy and chips and Dandelion and Burdock is akin to me climbing K2

      If it doesn’t happen in their street it doesn’t exist
      except if they see it in the local paper and it better be next to the telly bit

      I posted last night I think it was, an elderly relly of my mums was so worried about the marauding hordes of flag waving violent Naazees roaming the streets, and how could I have anything to do with these people

      After all I’m supposed to be from the educated side of the family, I’ve shown them photos of all the nice stuff
      “This is me standing next to Nicola Sturgeon” “Me with Alex Salmond” they haven’t eaten me or killed me, we’ve all got pictures like that

      I’m afraid to say unless the English newspapers and TV soften up down there we’re kinda stuck with the mindset of
      SNP very very bad

    191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      You think Cameron and the gang work to the same morality as the rest of us – ‘the ordinary people’?

      To me, the ‘moral high ground’ is challenging the anthem at number 1 this week, and every week, independence.

    192. Dr Jim says:

      I don’t care what the animal is

      If you kill it for Entertainment you’re a sick Bastirt

      And maybe that’s relevant to the minds of the kind of people who make any kind of law in any country anywhere

    193. Scotspine says:

      @Rock

      You didn’t exactly make it clear when you made an appeal to hunters to stop engaging in blood sports.

      You effectively associated all hunters with what you are driving at, which is your toff hooray henry types Killing animals for the hell of it.

      Im not sure what you are suggesting by the comnent you made about animals going to the slaughterhouse. You may be making the same point I did, although Im not sure what animals think or whether they can rationalise. I do know that they respond to stimuli and that the sound of animals in distress and the smell of blood will elicit a response we categorise as fear.

      As for fear free death, im pretty certain that a deer grazing at the edge of a wood that drops instantly when the bullet strikes its heart is arguably better off than a pig being crammed on a float, driven for miles, beaten with a stick into a pen and then stunned by electricity, hoisted up by a hind leg on a hook before having its throat cut and bled to death.

      Bacon rolls are tasty, arent they?

    194. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rock says: 18 May, 2015 at 11:17 pm:

      “This is foremost a matter of progressiveness and decency in society, not political point scoring.

      If you don’t mind, Rock, I’ll belay writing to my MP, MSP, MEP or Local Councillor until I’ve written them about eliminating food banks, Child Poverty, OAPs choosing between heat & eat, WMD removal from Scotland, (They kill more than just foxes), Decent pensions for the retired and the most recent scandal: –

      There were 4,748 reports of sexual abuse against adults with disabilities over the past two years, information from 106 councils in England found.

      The NSPCC said the cases were “the visible peak” of a much larger problem.

      The Local Government Association said councils “work hard to ensure support is available”.

      The Victoria Derbyshire programme submitted Freedom of Information requests to 152 councils with adult social services responsibilities (CASSRs) in England, asking how many reports of sexual abuse of disabled clients they had recorded over the financial years 2013-14 and 2014-15, up to 16 February 2015.

      Data received from 106 of the 152 councils showed that 63% of the 4,748 reported cases were against those with learning disabilities, and 37% against those with physical disabilities.

      No comparable figures have previously been collated.

      So if you don’t mind I have a very long list of letters to elected folks to write before I get round to fox hunting in England. I call it getting my priorities right and, Rock, I have been against fox hunting since ever I found it was practiced and I found out early in life being born in a Pluchie’s Raw hovel in the 1930s.

      Pluchies Raw = Ploughman’s Row. BTW: I visited a farm cottage just outside Milnathort, in around 1997, An old retired farm hand still lived there – it had a bare clay floor, no running water or internal toilet, piped gas or mains electricity.

    195. K1 says:

      This is very good from Kevin McKenna, from The National on Saturday, in case anyone missed it. He’s calling it like it is.

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/kevin-mckenna-hatred-of-austerity-a-rejection-of-greed-if-this-is-a-cult-count-me-in.3042

    196. K1 says:

      More from Derek Bateman on the lamentable response from the media in Scotland on the back of the result. This is good…at least he and Kevin McKenna are trying to raise this issue and call it out for what it is: A bunch of lying spivs who ran the BT campaign and the election campaign for the unionists…and who have relentlessly insulted us for our choices.

      These people have shown themselves as despicable bastards…they will never be forgiven and we need to dry up their revenue in Scotland to rid them of their sickening influence over our most vulnerable.

      You are not journalists, you are bereft of honesty and integrity. You are barely recognisable as human.

      http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/18/stop-press-please/#comments

    197. Schrödinger's cat says:

      I only eat fish that die in their sleep…..

      If blocking the fox hunting bill annoys the Tories….we should do it 🙂

      Re mcturnip, good rid dens to bad rubbish

    198. Ken500 says:

      Scotland now has an alternative Press to counter Westminster lies. People are more educated, are now educating themselves through the alternative Press. Knowledge is strength. The Unionist politicians and Press are criminals and support criminal politicians, who steal public at every opportunity. There time is up in Scotland. The greedy, cheats and the liars ore on their way out.

      Thatcher was a criminal broke every rule in the book and got away with it. Thatcher left over 3million unemployed and interest rates at 15%. Destroyed the world banking system and caused death and misery all over the world. Blair/Brown broke every rule in the book and caused death and misery the world over. They should be in jail. Westminster is a corrupt organisation which uses the Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices to cover up their crime. Most of them should be in jail. Embezzling liars, fraudster, murderers, tax evaders child molesters, wasting £Billions of public money against the public interest.

      The sooner Scotland is Independent and runs it’s own affairs the better.Westminster does not represent Scotland. Cameron is a liar. Westminster are sanctioning the vulnerable and starving them to death. The wealthy who caused the crash are getting away with it.

    199. Ken500 says:

      McTernan is disgusting. An unelected parasite, a public menace, wasting public money.

    200. Ken500 says:

      Ban fox hunting in Scotland. Ban Tory/Unionists. A Tory no go area.

      Patients were being killed in English Hospitals when Burnham was Health Minister. Burnham did nothing about complaints. No wonder people don’t trust them.

    201. Mealer says:

      Ken500 6.40
      Ban Tory/unionists? Nah,I’ll stick with democracy,thanks.Its more in line with my values and beliefs.I find your totalitarian view a little outdated.

    202. biecs says:

      Well I suppose as long as GMS is using all their ‘political’ sections to discuss SLab (they must be starting to bore themselves never mind their listeners) at least they are not spewing attack stories on the SNP.
      I am sure they are sitting waiting for the chance to start broadcasting SNP MP smear stories.

    203. Mealer says:

      biecs 7.17,
      Of course.Its their job.However,half the population are hearing the BBC view on a daily basis,but choosing to ignore it.Half the population…and rising.

    204. Ken500 says:

      You’re fired Jim. Toxic donors withdraw their funding. Gambling on a load of nonsense, losing all their illegal funding. No funding from the unelected Unions. Total hypocrites.

      The NO campaign have overspent £Millions breaking every rule in the electoral book with false accounting. The Unionist Referendum lies. The Referendum result should be declared ‘null and voud’ and the SNP should go for another Referendum, which will be won. A Referendum for Independence has to be put in the Holyrood manifesto, if there is to be an EU Referendum in 2016. Breaking every electoral rule in the book, cheating and lying, especially to the elderly is not an effective political strategy for good reason.

      There will be another Unionist wipeout in the Holyrood elections 2016 and the Scottish council elections in 2017. Enough is enough. The people are taking back Scotland. Unionism is dead.

    205. Grouse Beater says:

      Ken: Ban fox hunting in Scotlan.

      It was banned two years before England – ‘Protection of Small mammals Act – 2002’. Let the English fight their own battles. There’s enough detest the blood sport.

    206. Ken500 says:

      Bloody Tories have been banned through the electoral process. They have been voted out. Bloody Greens.

    207. Ken500 says:

      There is no Party more totalitarian and outdated than the bloody Tories, Run for the rich by the rich., illegally using underhand methods. A tiny number of the population, illegally accepting funding and Illegally controlling the Press and the population, through the Official Secrets Act, illegal ‘D’ notices and lies, attacking the vulnerable and abusing public funds. They have no mandate in Scotland. Westminster is a totalitarian, corrupt Institution. Illegally lying, murdering and stealing from innocent people worldwide. Illegally breaking every UK/International Law. Tory/Unionist lying Hypocrites They have no shame, and they are getting away it.

      Where is the Chilcot verdict being illegally withheld by Westminster civil servants against the public interest.

    208. manandboy says:

      In the world of sport, the MSM always headline the winners. No one writes about the also rans. Yet after GE15 and the SNP’s historic 56 MP’s, both The National and the Herald on Sunday are 70% articles and pictures of Murphy and Labour.

      To be an Independence paper, you have to write about the winners – not those losers.

      Are you listening, Richard?

    209. Ken500 says:

      Aye, but they might try and take fox hunting back in the UK, by undermining the SNP Scottish Gov. The Tories have form of intervening in Scottish matters, undermining the Scottish economy. Outvoted 10 to 1 in Westminster. The majority in Scotland do not want an EU Referedum but it is being once again imposed on the Scottish Electorate. People in Scotland want another, free and fair, Independence Referendum where the electoral rules are followed, without outside influence and intervention.

    210. Ken500 says:

      Mhari on ‘Lorraine’

    211. Johnny says:

      Re fox hunting – I don’t really see how it is any different to those wee neds that torture cats before killing them, or similar.

      As some have suggested, there is a big difference between a farmer performing a quick kill in neccessitous circumstances like losing several hens to a marauding fox (even if I would still sometimes see even that as just a ‘hard luck’ economic loss). It is, different, to the festivals of torture masquerading as ‘fun’ outlined in my first paragraph.

      As for it being a ‘trap’, well maybe it is. But then you know that the Tories are going to press ahead with the likes of EVEL anyway and I am not sure they even feel they need a reason. If they proceed to use EVEL to try and punish Scotland on the economy and other things, it is up to our MPs to point this out and renew the push for indy.

      In short, the Tories might think they are setting up a trap but it is not one designed to keep the union together in the long term.

    212. manandboy says:

      According to Jonny Dymond, writing on the BBC’s website:-
      Mr Cameron had two simple messages in the campaign and he rarely veered away from them; the first – the economy is in good shape and the recovery is threatened by Labour. And the second – the SNP would hold a Labour-led government to ransom.”
      (www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32650417)

      But Jonny Dymond is mistaken on the first of these, not because the economy is in bad shape, which is true, and there is no recovery, also true, but because the population are still feeling the effects of austerity. Most people don’t believe the economy is recovering. True, the economy of the very rich is in good shape but not for anyone else.

      That leaves the ‘SNP supporting Labour’ factor. That is what won the election for the Tories. In their reaction to Cameron’s warning, the English electorate showed us, unmistakably, the face of English Nationalism. A coalition between the MP’s of the Tory Party and those of the LibDems is 100% OK; but a group of Scots SNP MP’s supporting the Labour Party in Government is 0% OK.

      Speaking in the Commons yesterday, Cameron made big on bringing everyone in the UK together as one nation – while his Government are in power on the basis that SNP MP’s must not be given any share in it. Meaning that the democratic right of the Scottish electorate to send to Westminster whomsoever they wish to represent them, has been nullified for this Parliament.

      Lying, heartless, thieving criminals during the week, then Church on Sunday.

      I can’t wait to get divorced from this mob.

    213. Training Day says:

      The ‘Scottish’ MSM aren’t half determined to find some relevance – any relevance – for Labour.

      ‘Does Scotland need the Labour Party?’. Thus asks Kaye Adams in yet another bid to disguise a desperate promotion of the dying party as critical analysis.

      Um.. No. Next.

    214. Wee Alex says:

      I know I shouldn’t but I’m going to listen to Call Kaye about the need for a Labour Party in Scotland. As a former supporter it was Labours drift to the right that lost me and lost me forever.

      It will take them a decade to rid themselves of Blair and Brown policies. An independent Labour Party could work but the SNP is now the party of social justice.

      So long as Labour retain links to Westminster they are doomed to failure.

    215. galamcennalath says:

      Johnny says:
      ” the Tories might think they are setting up a trap but it is not one designed to keep the union together in the long term.”

      I think that is indicative of absolutely everything the Tories say and do with regard to Scotland …. Some not so clever tactic for short gain but damaging their beloved Union in the wider scheme of things.

      I reckon they do this because actual collapse of the Union and the end of the UK is something they simply can’t imagine ever happening. Odd, when we believe it is inevitable.

    216. K1 says:

      Could the SNP not deal ‘creatively’ with the votes on various issues, by allowing some of their MP’s to vote against strongly on particular legislation and the rest abstaining?

      In the case of Fox hunting, those constituent geographic areas that would, if directly affected by the repeal (in theory, as from what I’m understanding we already have a ‘ban’ in place through our own legislation?), could vote strongly against the repeal and those geographic areas that are, or would not be directly affected could abstain?

      By this approach, they can be seen to be genuinely considered and consistent in line with their democratic principles whilst following through on their manifesto commitment of not backing Tory legislation, forecfully, where possible on an issue by issue basis. And upholding only to vote on matters that would affect Scotland or even geographical parts of Scotland in this instance.

      Am I being naive? Or stupid?

      Answers: yes/no, no/yes, both.

    217. Fiona says:

      @ Training Day

      I think every country needs a “labour” party. The interests of employers and workers are intrinsically opposed: there is no getting away from that, and “we are all on the same side” is always a right wing lie.

      One can see that split in interest as only one fissure within society, and that is true: but it is probably the biggest one, and it subsumes many smaller groupings within its broad contours (though not entirely, to be sure).

      For now the SNP are able to unify those on each side of the divide, because without autonomy it really does not matter much that our interests conflict: none of us can pursue them, neither employers nor workers, with any real degree of effectiveness.

      More widely, the SNP have positioned themselves as a social democratic party. To me what that means is that the opposed interests are recognised and accepted, and the sustainable strategy is to find compromise between those different aims we can all live with. And that is about the best we can do.

      However there will always be plutocrats who do not recognise that is a desirable aim, and they will always have power/influence because they are wealthy. Nothing will change that

      That means that there must always be a countervailing force on the left, else the drift away from consensus will increase inequality and social injustice, and it will be successful. This creep is what we have seen in the parties of the left across europe, for decades. Social democrats need strong socialist voices, either inside or outside the party, to keep their eyes on the real purpose of compromise: which is to ensure that the distribution of wealth at least meets the minimum standards of human dignity for all.

      Without that, compromise is made for the sake of apparent unity, and that is not compromise at all: it is appeasement.

      So I would answer by saying, “yes, we need a labour party”. But we do not have one or even the semblance of one, at present. Apart from the SNP, we do not even have the semblance of a social democratic party in the UK. It is indeed a one party state and it has been at least since the rise of Blair – I think since before that, and look at the Kinnock era as the start of the rot.

      Politics in Scotland needs to be diverse, as I think is desirable for all countries. I look forward to a reshaping of the political landscape after independence, for that reason. I hope it will come through mass political engagement, sustained after independence is achieved, on the same terms as we currently enjoy. I could hope for a radically different media, so that there is truly in depth political debate founded on the initial question of what kind of society we wish to live in: and building policy on the answer to that question so that we all understand what we are trying to do, rather than focus on the managerial question “how”, which suits those who prefer that the electorate never get to the prior question “what”

    218. Calgacus says:

      Kaye Adams “The Party is over” ahahahaha.

    219. Paula Rose says:

      Establishment/Tory attitudes to the environment are the same – short-term advantage but in the wider scheme disastrous, why?

      It’ll be someone else’s problem and they’re still up at oxbridge.

    220. Robert Peffers says:

      I see hear BBC Scotland cancelled, “Call Kaye”, (wi wan e’e), and broadcast, “Call McLeish”, (wi jist ane idea). Followed by a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party.

    221. Anagach says:

      “Call Kaye” is on now – and again its a rally for the re-birth of the Labour Party in Scotland.

    222. Davy says:

      I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO FOX HUNTING IN ENGLAND.

      We can substitute foxes with members from the House of Lords, it would reduce the House of Lords in a controlled manner and the Tories can have their fun hunting their own kind.

      A win win solution.

    223. Martin says:

      @Dr Jim, @Robert Peffers
      It doesn’t help when their elected members continue to spout this nonsense – quote from the New Statesman:

      “I ask Skinner what he said to the new MPs he clashed with this afternoon in the chamber. “You don’t want to be in Westminster full-time, do you?” he replies. “You want to get away from Westminster with your Barnett Formula, so that my constituents have to pay money to Scotland, and with your North Sea Oil. Some of them didn’t answer at all. They were ordered to do it [try and take my seat].””

      I’d expect his Queens speech remark this year to include some snide reference to the SNP.

    224. Ken500 says:

      The (uneducated) English working class vote Tory/Unionist.

    225. Robert Peffers says:

      @Johnny says: 19 May, 2015 at 9:02 am

      ” … As some have suggested, there is a big difference between a farmer performing a quick kill in neccessitous circumstances like losing several hens to a marauding fox …”

      Johnny, a fit young healthy fox won’t be raiding a farmyard for chickens or other prey. Foxes have far too much sense, and that includes self preservation.

      Many people will go through their entire life without ever seeing a fox in the wild. The reason being foxy knows humans are his main predator. Foxy avoids any contact with humans, dogs and guns.

      An old, sick or injured fox cannot catch the fox’s natural diet. here’s a cut & paste of the normal fox diet :-

      Foxes are carnivores, eating mainly rabbits, hares, rats and mice, but they are also very adaptable and will eat many things including bugs and worms, and even fruit. At the coast they will eat crabs and fish, and in cities they will raid bins.

      So if the country dweller humanely kills a foxy raider they are actually dispatching an animal suffering and in extreme conditions. It would likely soon die anyway. More a case of mercy killing.

    226. Ken500 says:

      Cameron illegally cheated and lied to win the UK Election and the Independence Referendum. Not a good long term political strategy because he will be found out. Cameron is a crook and a conman, every word he utters is a lie. Cameron should be in jail he is breaking every Law in the land. Cameron is just illegally his associates pockets with £Billions of public money to enrich himself.

    227. scotspine says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      Aye, and the BBC are now following it up with “SNP Govt Bad” for denying folk legal representation at Court through their legislative programme.

      Of course, they use the raw case of the Fatal Accident Enquiry concerning the Bin Lorry and the families of the deceased struggling to obtain representation. (But not examining that case specifically mind ;))

    228. `Call Kaye`
      Red Tory Apparatchiks saying the usual sound bites `we must listen`and `we must concentrate on core values`and yet still blaming everything on the SNP.

    229. scotspine says:

      The BBC (Scotland or England – it makes no difference) agenda for the next year is plain and simple;

      Drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip…………..(SNP BAD)

      Publicity, publicity, publicity, publicity, publicity, publicity……………(Labour good)

      Is there no end to this madness?!!!!!!!!!!

    230. K1 says:

      There should be a Wings rota…only wan person listens to their shite and reports to the current thread…lol…that way people can stop going insane every time they hear KwianE. I never listen myself, as I would hurl the radio through the windae. Life’s too short.

    231. Karmanaut says:

      Just as cosmic physics can act to bring about a once in a lifetime alignment of planetary bodies, we should consider ourselves lucky that John McTernan, Blair MacDougal, and Jim Murphy have come together to form a once in a lifetime alignment of useless twats.

    232. Helena Brown says:

      Fiona @ 9.35am. I agree with your sentiments, yes we do need a Labour Party,and yes what we do not need is a complacent one that we have presently who still cannot understand what their previous constituents were saying that they did nothing for them, that they were too busy looking after the Labour Party, then themselves with their constituents hardly worth remembering.
      I find it quite humorous that it was said to be difficult to win Glasgow for the SNP and it probably was but it proved to quite easy for Labour to lose it. Nearly a hundred years running the City and taking seats in Westminster and what did they do with all that power, precisely nothing. Hell mind them, I think it is going to take a long time for Labour to realise that it was them that lost it.

    233. DrJim says:

      We’re being bombarded by programmes on how to save the Labour Party, how to make them relevant and really all it’s about is SNP bad and the mass media trying to save itself

      We have various political spokespersons aided and abetted by the media trying to figure out ways of telling different lies than they told before in order to make their comeback

      But while they do that they still make the same sound SNP bad
      They claim the SNP are not left wing, that they in fact are right wing or maybe left of centre or somewhere inbetween

      What they’re actually saying in their stupidity is the SNP are just pretty good at doing the Right Thing
      Labour like to talk about values
      When they were in power Hospitals needed reforming, what did they do they painted them then claimed money had been spent on the Health Service

      The SNP build new ones, and just any new one the best that money can buy, and then on time and under budget
      You need a bridge, on time and under budget that’s efficiency

      I could start listing the stuff they’ve done but it would be a long list
      Our country is bursting at the seams with new technology and innovation more of our young folk are staying here because we’re becoming a more modern society

      The SNP can’t fix everything they’re not perfect but who or what is, but I know we’re leaving England behind because it’s fifty years out of date and groaning under the weight of it’s own importance which is diminishing rapidly

      No Labour is finished and really who cares, we’ve left primary and are moving up to the big school now
      Flat caps and whippets gone
      Bookies gone
      Pub gone
      Drunk drivers gone
      Jobsworth committee men with a badge gone

      Scotlands getting younger and grown up at the same time
      Maybe a few growing pains on the way but we’re kinda used to getting a knock but look how tall we’re getting

    234. Robert Peffers says:

      @scotspine says: 19 May, 2015 at 10:23 am:

      “Is there no end to this madness?”

      Aye! It is called Scottish Independence.
      Alternatively it is called English Independence.
      Either solution will have the same effect.

      This gives the elected Scottish representatives, (minus three), a tightrope to walk, no safety net, and a big drop on each side.

      On one side is the, “Cheese off the English to make them go for independence”, tactic and on the other is the, “Be fair and even handed to convince the electorate, in both kingdoms, that the UK government are on the wrong road and life will be better for most”, tactic with SNP style policy and thus not losing support for the SNP in Scotland.

      We really don’t want to go too far either way and fall of the tightrope.

    235. ronnie anderson says:

      @ K1 calm doon calm doon Kay wie the E is only getting suggestions fur DimJims policy unit submission,you didna think he wid dey it awe hisel did ye.

    236. sensibledave says:

      @ Robert Peffers 10.11

      Hunting. Is fishing “hunting”? Is game shooting, either rough or driven, hunting? Is hunting and killing for food morally different to hunting for recreation? Is the subject of hunting, and whether it should be banned or not, to do with animal welfare – or more often a judgement on the people that do it?

      Based upon some of the responses above there appears to much confusion.

      With respect to fox hunting, I am ambivalent. On a point of fact though, my local hunt is comprised predominantly of horsey types, farmers, children of farmers or horsey types, and lots of people who enjoy cross country riding and the social aspects of hunting – not a toff to be seen in the field – so the “Hooray Henry” tags applied by some are just plain wrong.

      In addition, your whole theory ” … a fit young healthy fox won’t be raiding a farmyard for chickens or other prey. Foxes have far too much sense, and that includes self preservation…” is, factually, totally wrong. I live in the country, I see foxes almost everyday. Foxes, like rats, mice and men often take the route of least resistance.

      If chickens, geese and ducks are available as an easy kill then they will take that option most of the time. In addition, they also do the thing we don’t understand – which is to kill everything in a hen house whilst also only taking one to eat.

    237. X_Sticks says:

      O/T

      Is anyone else thinking that Charlie’s visit to Ireland and meeting with Gerry Adams the second step in a british establishment move to eventual re-unification of Ireland?

      All trouble and economic support handed off to Dublin/Brussels before Scotland gains its independence and they lose a chunk of money. What’s not to like? Too ‘out there’?

    238. Robert Peffers says:

      @Karmanaut says: 19 May, 2015 at 10:53 am:

      ” … we should consider ourselves lucky that John McTernan, Blair MacDougal, and Jim Murphy have come together to form a once in a lifetime alignment of useless twats.”

      Where the hell have you been?
      I’m very close to 80y.o. and there has always a group of, “Heavily bodied “Heavenly Bodies”, heading up Layabout Labour in Scotland

    239. fletch49er says:

      I don’t think we’re ever going to see the Great McTerno – Fortune Teller at a country fair any time soon. He’s been about as accurate as one of their rifles in the shooting gallery.

    240. sensibledave says:

      @ Robert Peffers 11.06

      OMG Robert. We agree!

    241. call me dave says:

      I remember this!
      ———————————————————

      A Highland MSP whose role was crucial to the formation of the first SNP Scottish Government, is standing down at next year’s Holyrood election.

      Dave Thompson has been MSP since 2007, firstly as a regional member for the Highlands and Islands from 2007 to 2011 and then as the constituency MSP for Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch since 2011.

      He has formally notified the SNP’s National Executive Committee of his decision and a candidate will be sought to replace him with nominations open in June.

      At the 2007 Holyrood election the former trading standards officer stopped the Highland returning officer on his way to the podium at the Inverness count, to challenge the result which had no SNP candidates getting on to the regional list

      It was discovered that all the party’s votes had been left out. After a recalculation, the SNP won two list MSPs and a one seat lead in the Scottish parliament. As a result Alex Salmond became First Minister of a minority SNP administration,

      Mr Thompson said it had been a great privilege to serve as an MSP butt he would 66 by the time of the election next year:

      ” I joined the SNP in 1965, 50 years ago, and have gone through many ups, but mostly downs, until eight years ago when I challenged the Highland Returning Officer in 2007 and forced a recount which led to me becoming the 47th SNP MSP, giving us a majority of one over Labour. This led to the first ever minority SNP government and to where we are today.

      “This has been a difficult decision but I believe that it is the right time for me to now hand over the baton to a younger candidate. The party has never been in a better position and I firmly believe that I will see independence in my lifetime.”
      ————————————————————-

      The rest is history: Shurley home mishtake!

      It was discovered that all the party’s votes had been left out.

    242. FairFerfochen says:

      On an estate near me they breed Grouse in pens and sheds.

      Twice a year some of them are released into the surrounding moors where their first and only taste of freedom is to be gunned down with twelve bore buckshot, for sport.
      Many are not retrieved and some may well eventually fall foul of a wandering fox.

      Whilst the shooting of these birds does “appear” for all intents and purposes to be some kind of hunting and shooting sport, behind the scenes it paints an all together different picture.

      Breeding birds for this specific purpose is somewhat cruel imo and though of benefit to the tourist trade it’s all just a bit of a con really and something we could frankly do without in Scotland.

    243. Fred says:

      There is nothing vicious or unnatural in a fox killing all the hens in a hen-house, what’s unnatural is all these hens enclosed in a confined space. The foxes reflex is to kill and that’s it. This is a situation which a fox would never come across in the wild. The fault is mans, if he keeps birds enclosed they should be in fox-proof accommodation.

      I like the suggestion of hunting rural Tories with hounds, they would probably have a great time and if the horsemen were up to snuff as regards keeping up with the hounds, it’s unlikely that any real damage to the quarry would occur. I would even buy a pink coat for this.

      Tallyho! 🙂

    244. Jim McIntosh says:

      @FairFerfochen

      “Breeding birds for this specific purpose is somewhat cruel imo and though of benefit to the tourist trade it’s all just a bit of a con really and something we could frankly do without in Scotland.”

      In some ways you could equate this to fur farming which was quite rightly banned in 2000 in the UK.

    245. Jim McIntosh says:

      Fred – totally agree with your comment re hen houses. The farmer has a responsibility to his chickens. He is the one that cooped them up, he is responsible if a fox gets in there and does what comes naturally to it.

      None of the “foxes are bad” brigade ever seem to consider this. Perhaps when this happens the farmer should be prosecuted for inadequate animal husbandry.

    246. Petra says:

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

      Interesting article from weegingerdug on the vote to reintroduce foxhunting in England.

      ‘’It says a lot about the priorities of our Tory overlords that one of the first votes in the Commons is to be a vote to legalise the barbaric cruelty of tearing apart creatures they don’t control with creatures that they do control, taking blood stained pleasure from pain, and garlanding themselves in the entrails of entitlement. It’s not just the intrinsic repulsion that anyone with a basic capacity for empathy feels towards the braying proponents of ritualised cruelty to animals, fox hunting is a metaphor for the Conservatives’ view of the lower orders. Davie Cameron’s government seeks to unleash the dogs of woe on all of us, and that has a lot to do with why fox hunting excites such strong passions. We are all foxes now.’’

    247. sensibledave says:

      @ FairFerfochen 11.42

      … we are entering an area of deep philosophical thinking here.

      The Grouse you referred to, the hens in the hen house and the sheep and cattle in the field’s very existence (i.e. their birth) is reliant entirely on their designed existence by man.

      Therefore, is it better to live and die – then never to have lived at all?

      Discuss.

    248. Fred says:

      @ FairFerfochen, is a little confused as to his gamebirds. Grouse cannot be artificially reared, what you’re seeing is pheasants and what’s distressing about pheasant-shoots is that where there are too many birds shot the bag is frequently just buried as not being worth the trouble. Very fond of a pheasant but wouldn’t thank you for a grouse.

      If however the odd toff gets lead poisoning from the shot, well, cest la vie. 🙂

    249. sensibledave says:

      @ Jim McIntosh 12:16 pm

      Sorry Jim, we are talking at cross purposes here. There are specialist poultry farms with the huge sheds and thousands of birds being bred for meat and eggs – and then there are, on most farms, the chickens, ducks and geese that live on the farm.

      In the case of the former, rarely do foxes get anywhere near the birds but there are all sorts of other questions about their lives and welfare. In the latter case, the birds usually roam free during the day doing what comes naturally and then, in the evening, they move into a “fox proof” run that also contains the hen houses. The hens/ducks/geese have a “safe house” to protect them from the foxes at night – not to “imprison” them.

    250. Petra says:

      Another ‘breakaway group’.

      ‘More than 12,000 Brighton and Hove residents ‘declare independence’ from blue Britain.

      WITH two dots of red and green in a sea of blue, Brighton and Hove looks like a separate country on the political map.

      And now more than 12,000 residents are declaring independence from the UK on the social media site Facebook.

      The People’s Republic of Brighton and Hove has gained more than 12,000 ‘likes’ in a week, designed a flag and is now coming up with a constitution, passports and a national anthem.

      Peter Styles, 43, the republic’s ‘Minister for Miscommunication’, explained: “My friend Jason Smart was so exasperated on election night that he set up the page, and it went a bit viral. It’s a support group for people who didn’t like what they saw on the constituency map.”

      Though the page was light-hearted, creative residents soon came up with artwork, policies and even a flag inspired by the popular television series Game of Thrones.

      Under their plan, Green and Labour voters in the surrounding Conservative constituencies would be classed as expats, while Conservative voters would be given the right to stay.

      Meanwhile, people in Kemptown have asked for aid parcels of gin, seagull relaxation tapes or even a full invasion.

      One Lewes resident offered fireworks and an army of bonfire society members if their constituency could be “liberated”, and people as far away as Scotland have requested asylum.’

    251. FairFerfochen says:

      @Jim McIntosh,

      True, and equally cruel.

      Another gripe I have, since I’m on the subject of birds, a species very dear to my heart is their needless culling on golf courses.

      I was a greenkeeper for many years and witnessed the shooting of many of our wild species including crows, magpies, jackdaws etc who other than turning over a few divots in search of an easy worm would find themselves blown away by the resident firearms holder.

      I hassled him for 20 odd years as to the moral implications of shooting such beautiful birds but he was, unfortunately one of those people who got the creeps whenever he set eyes on one. He referred to them as vermin 🙁

      I did win in the end though as on retirement I donated some of my final salary toward some bird scarers which were installed around the fairways.

      Long may our feathered friends roam free.

    252. FairFerfochen says:

      @Fred,

      You are right, they are pheasants, thank you kindly for the correction.

      My bad 🙁

      @sensibledave,

      Don’t agree in designing anything simply for man to then destroy it.

      Giving life should be seen as something to cherish and not something to be discarded as they tend to do around these parts. It dehumanises us.

      Seems so pointless to be honest.

    253. sensibledave says:

      @ FairFerfochen 1.05

      There are those of us that are vegetarian and vegan and I respect their views and their consistency of thought. For those of us that eat meat, then clearly we are, through our actions, admitting that all life is not sacrosanct and that it is OK to kill an animal.

      It is no good us carnivores moralising to our furry friends that because we are going to eat them after we have killed them then that is OK. I rather suspect, given the chance, that the animals would have a different view.

      On the subject of foxes, the issue is clouded further. I think that most agree that the fox population has to be controlled, i.e. we have decided that we are going to kill some foxes.

      As far as Mr Fox is concerned and if we could reason with him and give him a choice – would he prefer the option of say, coming across a tasty morsel, eating it and then dying as a result in some unspecified amount of time thereafter through poisoning or, would he like to take his chances that he goes about his business, doing what foxes do, and then maybe, if hears hounds or horns, he has to run like mad and get away 4 times in 5. However, if he gets caught, he will be killed within seconds?

    254. Jim McIntosh says:

      sensibledave: 19 May, 2015 at 12:36 pm

      SD – not sure we are talking at cross purposes. We weren’t discussing factory farmed animals, that’s a whole other debate. You stated they (foxes) “kill everything in a hen house whilst also only taking one to eat”.

      My response was that the farmer should be responsible for the care of his animals. Obviously if the fox can get in the coop the ‘fox-proof’ enclosure is not adequate, so please don’t blame the fox for doing what comes naturally to him.

      In your scenario all the animals die, and the only censure on the farmer is loss of income. Not so for the chickens, or the fox where this sort of publicity (although I’m not sure how often the ‘killing all the chickens’ happens real life) is used to justify hunting him with dogs until he is exhausted then ripping him apart.

    255. Grouse Beater says:

      Ken: Aye, but they might try and take fox hunting back in the UK, by undermining the SNP Scottish Gov.

      The legislation is fixed in Scotland.

      Reintroducing it in England is a diversion we should all avoid because meanwhile the Tories are dismantling the state … let’s stick to priorities that concern people.

      The only people who will dash off on the unspeakable chase are Unionist trolls on this site.

    256. Valerie says:

      I agree with you Grouse Beater, and I have an almost Buddist approach! I regard all life to be cherished, and Fox hunting is abhorrent to me.

      However, this issue of SNP involvement is a sideshow. SNP have prided themselves on not voting on English only matters for years, so this year they should throw their new found weight around? I say no.

      Even if they got involved, it’s highly likely the vote would fall. Remember, Labour needed 99 seats to get in power.

      SNP should abstain as always, because they will be outnumbered by the hooray Henry’s. They will be slagged off whatever they do, but they should point out adhering to their word, and practice, as well as making the point, that this kind of elitist shit is what UK govt considers a priority.

    257. sensibledave says:

      @ Jim McIntosh 1:29 pm

      ‘killing all the chickens’ happens, but not so often because they are put away at night! Sometimes, it happens during the day if Mr Fox is up and about and stumbles across the opportunity.

      The issue from the Fox’s point of view (i.e. not from projected human values of what constitutes “humane”) is the issue (assuming that you have accepted that foxes are going to be “controlled” (euphemism for killed) is which way is “best” for the fox – rather than what we humans feel the most comfortable with.

      If the fox is going to be “controlled” (killed) then they may be shot (and “winged”), poisoned (and die over the course of a few hours), trapped (and die in whatever length of time) or hunted with hounds and if caught, killed within seconds. If you were the fox and you were capable of understanding those choices and potential method of death, which would you choose?

    258. Jim McIntosh says:

      As it’s a ‘free’ vote if the Tories know the SNP are abstaining they can send 40 MPs through the NO lobby and still win. Labour will use that as an example of why voting SNP, means you will be getting Tory policies. Tories will also be happy with that description as it undermines the SNP.

      If they vote against the proposal the Tories will use that as a further reason why they need EVEL before we get more powers.

      The SNP must declare up front that they will ALWAYS abstain on English only issues. Again, as it’s a ‘free’ vote there is the chance of a few rebels, but I have confidence our representatives see the bigger picture.

    259. Jim McIntosh says:

      sensibledave: 19 May, 2015 at 2:28 pm

      “If the fox is going to be “controlled” (killed) then they may be shot (and “winged”), poisoned (and die over the course of a few hours), trapped (and die in whatever length of time) or hunted with hounds and if caught, killed within seconds. If you were the fox and you were capable of understanding those choices and potential method of death, which would you choose?”

      You’ve decided to kill him, so a bit like asking a man on death row whether he wishes to be shot, poisoned, electrocuted or gassed.

      It’s a false argument anyway, unless the adoption of fox hunting outlaws the other means of “control”.

    260. Fred says:

      If we’re agreed that Tories are vermin and require control, it’s surely academic whether shooting, gassing, poisoning, or trapping is used. 🙂

    261. sensibledave says:

      @ Jim 2.28

      … just for the record, I haven’t decided to kill the fox, it seems society has. I haven’t ever killed a fox.

      I didn’t think that Fox hunting was a political issue but it seems that not only is it some “class” thing, it also part of the England/Scotland thing.

      Again, for the record, Tory voters, on horseback, running with hounds across the English countryside don’t kill foxes. Its illegal. However, I rather suspect there are a few farmers in Scotland that are laying poison or shooting foxes at the moment?

    262. Paula Rose says:

      Hunting with dogs a humane way to kill – I’d be laughing if I wasn’t so angry.

    263. Fiona McPhee says:

      Call me Dave at 11.28

      Sad to see David Thomson leave parliament!

      Indeed he was instrumental in pointing out to Arthur and John at the count that some votes had not been counted. The importance of this can not be understated!

      So good luck to Dave in the future and even if he is retired from front line politics, there should be nothing to prevent him being invited to count nights to ensure no shenanigans by the unionists (gosh that they would?) ;0)

    264. K1 says:

      Aye right enough Ronnie, KwianE is the chief procurement officer fur Labour branch’s policy hunting unit; That’s wan foxy lady. Smirk.

    265. Jim McIntosh says:

      sensibledave: 19 May, 2015 at 3:27 pm

      “I didn’t think that Fox hunting was a political issue but it seems that not only is it some “class” thing, it also part of the England/Scotland thing.”

      Not a political issue, then why are the politicians at Westminster discussing repealing the ban in England? Against the wishes of the majority of your country by the way.

      “Again, for the record, Tory voters, on horseback, running with hounds across the English countryside don’t kill foxes. Its illegal.”

      But it won’t be if the ban is repealed in England, as David Cameron wants – I thought that was what we were discussing….tell you what, forget it.

    266. Davy says:

      I originly come from a country village in the north east of Scotland, and if their was a problem with foxes in the area the local farmers would let us know about it and would organise a shoot for the areas affected.

      At the end of the days shooting maybe two to five foxes would have been killed, fast and quick with a shotgun. And their would not be another organised shoot for maybe another four to five years and only when the farmers said it was needed.

      It did not require a bunch of dressed up clowns with horses and hounds to do the necessary by ripping a fox to pieces, and calling it a sport.

      I once let one of the local farmers know I had spotted some fox cubs while out walking about 1/2-mile fa his farm, his reply was, aye we know their there, but their nae bothering us, so I’m nae going to bother them.

      If a wild animal has to be kept in check why would we not do it cleanly, only earse’s torture God’s beasts.

    267. Valerie says:

      Well said, Davy, that approach is what I like to see, just humane management, in the same way gatekeepers have to cull elderly deer, to prevent a slow and painful death from starvation or injury.

      Sensible Dave, you aren’t so sensible today if you can’t see that Fox hunting is a class issue, and of course it also comes down to our imperial masters control of the great hunting estates in Scotland, which in turn is linked to land reform here.

      Hunting with dogs was always the preserve of the elite. They imported Russian Borzoi dogs, and pedigree greyhounds. The penalty for stealing these dogs, or using them for breeding was the loss of a limb. The peasants coveted these fast dogs to get food for the table. They snuck their working dogs into mating sessions with these pampered dogs, and the working man’s lurcher was created, unique to Britain for a very long time.

    268. sensibledave says:

      Er, Paula, I haven’t argued that any method is “humane”. I have only tried to point out that the fox hunting ban means that a similar amount of foxes are being killed in a different way. I then went on to merely ask the question, from the fox’s point of view, which method of being killed is the least worst? You, I assume, are making the point that you think that either shooting, poisoning or trapping represent least worst alternatives for the fox?

      You, as others here seem to be, are so intent on having some SNP/Tory, England/Scotland ruck all the time that you are now simply projecting tired clichés and stereotypes whenever somebody who isn’t Scottish, or an SNP supporter, writes anything. You need to have a think about that.

      Game hunting and fishing (or the killing of animals for sport to be more accurate) takes place throughout the UK – and Scotland is particularly famous for its fishing and shooting – from salmon, through to birds of many kinds, all the way up to Red Stags – so it has nothing to with party or country.

      The word “humane”, in my view, cannot be applied to the killing of animals in any way – unless, perhaps, we are talking about euthanasia for sick/dying animals. The dictionary quotes synonyms for “humane” as being things like kind, kindly, kind-hearted, considerate, understanding, tolerant, good, good-natured and gentle. I don’t see how one could justify any of those adjectives being used in the context of shooting or poisoning a perfectly healthy animal of any type. It just isn’t kind, kind-hearted, considerate, or good-natured or gentle – to lay poison, or set a trap or shoot a healthy animal.

      The word “humane”, in this context, is really just a sop to those of us that are uncomfortable about the reality of an entirely selfish act where we, or our proxies, kill an animal for our, or their, own benefit – whether it is to eat, or for sport, or to get rid of a pest. It has absolutely nothing to do with the animal’s welfare – the animal gets killed in varying degrees of pain or anxiety. I ask again, which method causes the least pain and anxiety over a given amount of time for the fox – a non-lethal shot from a shotgun, poisoning, trapping and gassing, or death by hounds?

    269. Ian Sanderson says:

      May 18h…?

      Getting ahead of yourself just a tad…..?

    270. Paula Rose says:

      @ Sensibledave – I think Davy puts the full stop on how to deal with foxes, and I think Valerie shows the reasons why this resonates as an issue. I can still see both sides of the abstain / Noe argument, at this moment in time I will wait and see. I expect that our Scottish MPs will be carefully considering their position.

    271. Paula Rose says:

      PS I’ve often thought that a drag hunt properly organised would make great sport and TV – and I don’t mean ‘Toffs’ breaking necks and limbs – more fun than Grand National type stuff and better scenery, bit like a cross between that and horse trial with bugles and doggies.

    272. sensibledave says:

      @ Paula Rose 7.04

      Paula Rose, henceforth I dub thee “sensiblePaulaRose”. You have earned the right to bear the proud prefix.

    273. Paula Rose says:

      @ Sensitivedave – aw shucks (winsome flutter of eyelids).

    274. Sensibledave says:

      @ Paula Rose 7.52

      … Don’t start that, you will get me in trouble again!

    275. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Winsome?

      Who are you kiddin’? You forget that some of us have seen your fluttery eyeloder. Deep joy, for the fundimold of eyebrow-raisy!

      8=)

    276. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Senaitivedave. I think the fox would prefer to die of old age.

    277. frankieboy says:

      McTernan- a chancer if ever there was one. His intellectual capacity would have looked immense in a room full of Labour supporters, including the BBC journalists who were scared of him. Now it has come to pass that the wider population has discovered that he has been, and always will be – a fud.



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