Love and monsters
In all the hoo-ha today about the poll figures which showed a clear majority for Yes if people thought they’d be £500 a year better off with independence, nobody seems to have paid much attention to what seems to us to be a rather more significant figure.
We should passingly note, of course, the oddity of 37% of Scots still being prepared to vote No even if it’d make them £500 richer every year – it’s a disproportionately high number for them ALL to be Labour MPs who can make that sum in five minutes with an expenses claim form – but we’d rather focus on the finding which showed that if people thought independence would leave them neither better nor worse off, the vote was a very close 39% Yes to 44% No (or 47-53 if you exclude Don’t Knows).
Because what that shows is that the primary driver for a No vote is fear, not love for the Union. If you offer people no bribes, but simply reassure them that they won’t LOSE money, they tilt towards independence. That’s good news for the Yes camp, because it’s a lot easier to dispel people’s fears (especially if you’ve still got a year to do it) than it is to convince them to stop loving something.
If you’re running a campaign based on positivity, it’s a lot harder to fight against another positive vision than it is to overcome a negative one. We’ve seen the scare-based No campaign falter and crack this year, slowly but surely becoming the subject of ridicule more than anger. With the publication of the white paper, which you’d assume the Scottish Government will have made pretty watertight by the time it arrives, maintaining Project Fear for another 12 months will become far more difficult.
It becomes plainer and plainer with every passing poll that the people of Scotland want independence in their hearts, if only centuries of cringe can be swept away. People who already want to believe your case are the easiest to persuade. All that the Yes campaign required at this stage was to still be in touch. As we enter the final year, that goal has been achieved. Now for the real game.
A good analysis as usual. The majority as saying the Union is shite, but I’m still a bit feart about independence. An amazingly weak position for BT to be in. I think the smarter unionists realised that the game was effectively up when they couldn’t force a quick referendum.
Aye. That about sums it up.
Ladies and Gentlemen, start your engines !!!!
Here here. I think it all comes down to credibility in the end. You can tell and demonstrate to people that they’ll be better off but it’s a case of whether they believe you or not, people don’t have a massive amount of faith in politicians obviously.
This, for me, is where the Yes campaign needs to get more pro-active. When the No camp spreads nonsense about deficits as opposed to relative surpluses, not being able to defend ourselves, not being able to use the pound etc etc, we need to stop dismissing this as ‘scaremongering’ (getting really sick of that word now). Let’s say “this is nonsense, and this is why”, let everyone know that you cannot believe a word that they say and make sure everything that it said by Yes is fully backed up with research and documentation. I’m sure the White Paper will sort a lot of this out but stuff like the EU advice stuff and the like doesn’t help because if you give the MSM an inch they’ll take a mile.
Bang on the money. I have lost count of the number of folk I have spoken to who want to vote YES, but are scared that we can’t afford it. No love for the union (this is on Royal Deeside!) but worried that we would hit the economic buffers. Convince folk we will be a prosperous country and we win.
@ Roscoe
You don’t have to give the MSM an inch, they make it up anyway. They are our fundamental problem, in my opinion.
And now we begin to get to the crux of the matter.
O/T maybe. But oh my lord. Give that man a mega round of applause. Didn’t see 5Live Debate today. If nothing else, watch this clip and be inspired. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01gt20t
Labour in Scotland, Labour in the East End of Glasgow – hang your head in shame.
Just a thought Stu- on these archived pages I can see adverts which is a weird experience as I never see them on my own browsing- have you tried Adblock Plus? It works for both Firefox and Chrome and will get rid of those pesky ads forever (it even helps with the inline video ads on YouTube).
Almost, almost.
40% I keep thinking by Xmas-January and we’ll win this.. Keep working hard away. I already know 6 people who have shifted from No/Dont Know to Yes. It was only 3 up to last month. People are engaging in the debate now and especially things like today’s BBC. The 2 young voters ‘Empire biscuit’ was inspiring stuff, and speeches, lassies like her and you all on here – will win the day!
That poll underneath all the splash and dash headlines off us voting for Indy if we were to be 500 quid richer shows that Yes is on 39 and No on 44.
@Bubbles “You don’t have to give the MSM an inch, they make it up anyway. They are our fundamental problem, in my opinion.”
I agree entirely but it’s the hand that we’ve been dealt, I think the Yes campaign has conducted a softly, softly approach to the guff though and I would like it to take a harder line.
May yet be the MSM that wins it for Yes, bizarrely enough. I’ve always thought that the Sun’s backing of the SNP in the 2011 election really helped and if Murdoch can be persuaded to get onside (from the noises he’s made he’s open to independence) then it might just win it for Yes.
Not that it was the Sun ‘wot won it’ in the last Scottish election but I think it helped sway traditional Labour voters. Might seem a bit out there as a theory but the SNP won in Glasgow so if anyone has a more rational explanation go ahead!
@Fordie,
That was brilliant, thank you.
“All that the Yes campaign required at this stage was to still be in touch. As we enter the final year, that goal has been achieved. Now for the real game.”
Indeed, it’s all going exactly to plan as far as I’m concerned. If the referendum was going to be won in 18 months, it would be getting held this week. It’s being held next year for good reason. You don’t overturn decades of propaganda in a few months, so this was always going to be about getting people used to the idea that there will be a referendum on independence first.
The No side were only ever going to lose votes, and Yes were only ever going to win them. The best Yes votes are those that come from a period of deep contemplation, not just deciding to suddenly become a Yes voter at a whim. Such people are just as likely to suddenly swing back to a No. So those extra votes need to come from a good foundation, from people who feel they’ve arrived at the decision at their own pace.
The No side have already used up all their ammunition. As Wings has shown previously, they’re already having to recycle their arguments. By the time of the referendum, people will have heard the same rubbish in three or four cycles, and they’ll be sick of it. “Stop crying wolf”, they’ll say. Meanwhile, they have ordinary people knocking on their door and manning stalls, asking them simply to think about it, safe in the knowledge that we have truth on our side.
We have a plethora of different groups to choose from, promoting the various ideas for the future we can put into practice with independence – Common Weal, Radical Independence, Business For Scotland etc – and on the other side, there are politicians. The same politicians who have monumentally failed Scotland for generations. The same politicians who have lied to us for decades. The same politicians who are to blame for Trident being on our soil, for one in five children being in poverty, and for plunging us in billions upon billions of pounds of debt thanks to ruinous wars and sucking up to bankers.
Soon after the white paper is released, we’ll start to see the polls tipping in our favour, and we’ll never look back from there. The truth about the union cannot be unseen, so once people truly open their eyes to it, that’s it. There is simply no way the people who have been shafted by Westminster all these years will go into those polling booths and vote No. Forget the voters of Morningside, Bearsden and Rubislaw – this will be won by the voters of Muirhouse, Shettleston and Torry. Revolution never came from the lily-livered.
I suspect that when the Sun sees how the land lies they may well decide that independence is the answer. I am not convinced that the Sun done it. The Sun decided to be on the winning side.
And it won’t hurt that it will be a humiliation for Cameron, whom Murdoch appears to hold in very low regard.
I was “exposed” (for want of a better phrase in that situation, that´s how a unionist friend called it) as a Yes supporter by a very drunken friend in front of my very unionist family and friends last week. The Scottish cringe and the knowledge some of my family displayed rather “excitable” views on independence, the Yes Campaign and particularly Mr Salmond (hatred seems a mild word) had made me decide they were completely unpersuadable and therefore I´d forever hold my peace & silence on this topic and focus on others.
My unplanned declaration created an interesting situation where the majority suddenly seemed not to be “unionists” but actually “believers of Project Fear”. Comments such as “I´m totally Scottish but `But we cannae dae it economically`” Or “We´re not ready yet” etc. This and other sites helped me express what I knew and felt and believed without feeling like some kind of nutter.
The main thing I realised from these exchanges is that most of the people present were not really “No” voters but shy “Can´t” voters.
But even more fundamentally to that was that there was any discussion at all compared to previously, whether 6 weeks ago, or 3 or 4 or 6 months ago. Once the ice was broken the debate has continued in a civil and fascinating manner.
Many people are simply waiting to feel it´s okay to talk about it and that a “Yes” vote is okay and not abnormal (hence the media´s barrage attempts to “abnormalise” a “Yes” position. It stifles debate and makes people shy to express a “Yes” stance). Waiting to see it´s normal to discuss it and that the constant barrage of “NO!” newspaper headlines are actually not as extensively believed than the press seem to think. And once that “waiting” is over the discussions are fascination.
This site has, since last week, been sent to many family members and friends. I´m sure this and other sites will at least make some of my family and friends move from an absolute definitely “No” to a “Don´t Know” and we all know where that leads to.
I wish I’d written that, Doug. It’s positively inspiring. 🙂
We are in fine fettle. Sites like this are blossoming and word is spreading as more people are becoming better read, better acquainted with the detail and arguments and more prepared to question assumptions based on MSM mis-information. The poverty of detail in the opposing arguments are becoming glaringly obvious to more and more people. As more people become confident in the power of their argument backed up by facts and figures made personal to themselves and the people they converse with The conversion rate of DK’s to Yes will accelerate. Project Fear will have nothing to fall back on. Even now the three main political parties involved in BT are beginning to fracture from their core messages as they themselves lift their heads to view the future landscape, struggling with their own survival in a new Scotland and a UK General Election held during Independence negotiations.
The inherent contradictions in their policy positions will become ever more brittle as they attempt to fight on two quite different fronts. The Yes position will become clearer, seem more positive and logical as the year progresses and continue to accelerate attracting support as the tipping point is reached.
we just have to keep chipping away, talking with friends and family, acquaintances and work colleagues making the notion of change more acceptable by constantly attempting to define, redefine and imagine how good ‘different’ could be.Positive visualisation for the masses should be our mantra.
We are in a good place with one year to go and after the rally this weekend energy levels and positive spirit will be rejuvenated.
Lanarkist.
Apologies for the formatting. I´ve not idea what went on there. I tried to edit it but it was too late. I don´t post often so I´ll put that down to experience.
Blush…
Stu will fix it. I happens sometimes, don’t know why. And sometimes you don’t get an edit window at all.
Had to come here for some sanity after a brief encounter on a friend’s Facebook status. Now here is someone who really does love the Union:
“ I have no desire to live in a country that has the potential – after the “yes” voters God forbid should get their way – to become the next Greece or other such Euro countries…. I hope Scotland stays in its rightful place – as a member of the United Kingdom and part of one of most respected, revered and inventive nations.”
Despite me having tried to explain a few facts and suggest they google facts for themselves rather than rely on political parties or the media, the above is where they stand and sadly with that outlook will probably never be convinced of Scotland’s potential. Just as well almost everyone else I know is voting Yes.
I like to find songs that fit the occasion and have decided on “Follow Me by Lange ft. The Morrighan”. Here’s the lyrics and a link to the song. To me this song sums up the whole “don’t be scared, you can do it, take a chance”. It also mentions wings which is a bonus. 🙂
“Follow me, to the edge
and follow me into the dream
and dance with me, into the star fire
like tonight is all there is
and make the leap of faith, and don’t look down
Follow me, to the edge
passion for our wings
take my hand, the moment sings
make me fly, passion for our wings
Follow me, to the edge”
Spot on Doug, the only thing I disagree with is I think we are talking centuries of propaganda rather than decades.
“Just a thought Stu- on these archived pages I can see adverts which is a weird experience as I never see them on my own browsing- have you tried Adblock Plus?”
I run AdBlock Plus, but I have no control over what archive.is does.
“Stu will fix it. I happens sometimes, don’t know why.”
It’s usually people pasting stuff in from Microsoft Word.
Votadini Jeannie – there will always be people like that. They’re not open to facts, so there’s simply no point even wasting your time. I have several friends like that and I’m just writing them off, because they’re not interested in fairness or justice – they like bigness, strength, fear masquerading as respect and everything else the union represents.
Remember, we only need to get 50% + 1. The rest will just have to put up with a few months of “gentle” ribbing afterwards from those of us who are terrible winners.
MS Word. The Spawn of Satan. Will never desecrate the hard drive of any computer I own so long as Corel lives and breathes.
Jeannie, like Doug says, we ain’t gonna win them all. We are not going to get 100% Yes. I’ll settle for 50.0000001%, although north of 60% would be good (and what I’m hoping for). When it’s obvious someone is too far gone to listen to reason, just walk away. It’s not worth either your time or your nervous energy.
Kirriereoch, Forget the formatting blushes… Your tale was positively inspiring. I agree with you that a lot of people are shy of speaking out in fear of being shouted down. Once they get over their reticence and start exploring the argument there is no stopping them. All we have to do is get these newly inquisitive individuals to pass on these new found facts and confidence to one other individual and we are off. Snowballs anyone? Should be the official rally cocktail.
Lanarkist.
For me the media aren’t a problem any more. They’ve spun so much shite on behalf of the No campaign that no one believes them now. Peter & the wolf springs to mind. They’ve blown it and by fuck will they have some questions to answer on Sep 19th 2014
The real battle for independence will be won by feet on the street. Yes Scotland don’t even need to do anything particularly windswept and innovative. All they need to do is provide the support & logistics for campaigners. My only fear is that they have the right resource to keep up with demand. As trivial as it is I requested a fucking car sticker last year and have yet to receive it!
If they can crack the back office support the local campaign teams will take care of the rest.
There can be no complacency from anyone though. The real work starts after this weekend and the launch of the white paper.
I’m preparing my kit now for street projection to do my wee bit when the nights get darker.
In stark contrast, Better Together are royally fucked.
They undoubtedly have the money but at the end of the day; you can lay on the most lavish spread known to humanity but if you’re a knobend then no one will come to your party.
All they have are unionist councillors and their apparatchiks. Unless they bus in rent-a-mobs from elsewhere in the UK the games up for them.
There’s still a lot of hard work to do but things are coming together nicely 🙂
@kirriereoch
What you wrote is so true for many, beautifully put.
Rosco_v1
The Union can only exist because of faith, but where are the scriptures telling us why it is better to be governed from London?
Unicorn horn was widely believed to have medicinal properties and was traded as an expensive medicine until the 18th century. Probably one or two still buying it today.
Normalising Yes is where Saturday really has the potential to score, if it’s reported properly. Thousands, almost certainly tens of thousands, of ordinary people showing their happiness and enthusiasm. It can do a lot to make support for independence seem normal and life-enhancing.
I have already seen a few attempts to start knocking the march. Unionists talking about how it will be a disaster and a real setback for Yes. Of course they persuaded themselves that last year’s was like that, when everyone who was there had a fantastic time and was astounded by the large turnout. Goodness knows what the ordinary voters thought, but some of the press coverage was very petty.
Sigh. I suppose they’ll decide in advance that if the official police estimate is less than 200,000 it will be “a personal humiliation for Salmond” and he might as well cancel the referendum. They’re so predictable I can practically write the script by now.
@kirriereoch – I’ll wager your post could be mirrored all over Scotland. I think the more we normalise the idea of independence the more folk we convert to YES.
hey Doug Daniel, are you making a speech at the rally? Your post here would be grand for such purposes. Probably others here too, just haven’t had time to read them yet.
Morag… Open Office.
That is all.
As trivial as it is I requested a fucking car sticker last year and have yet to receive it!
It astounds me that Yes Scotland is charging money for car stickers and other promotional material. Branches have to pay for this stuff, and then they’re charging punters for it.
It’s BLOODY RIDICULOUS. I have a fair-sized standing order in favour of Yes Scotland. I expect at least a couple of car stickers in return. In fact, I expect Yes to use some of that money to try to get as many car stickers on cars as possible. You don’t achieve that bay saying, that will be 50p please.
In fact, much more of this and I’ll cancel the standing order and make it out to Yes Borders instead. (And apparently Yes HQ were good enough to give Yes Borders some “free” car stickers and pens to make up for some mix-up about a tent. So I pocketed a few and have been giving them out. It works a treat.)
Your basic premise is correct Stuart that it easier to argue for and convince with a positive message than with a negative one. In that sense all that Project Fear have to offer is more of the same.
The key area for the undecideds as the polls seem to point out is the economy. Yes will win if people can be reassured that the economy will be in better shape with independence as opposed to an existence we have at present based on the mixture of numbing mediocrity and mean austerity offered by the Union State.
So on the one hand we have to have through the White Paper a bullet proof road-map to show in simple straightforward terms how the standard of living of Scots CAN be better with YES
As part of that effort, the Yes campaign has to deal head on and demolish the following 6 points
1. Currency Union will not happen because the rUK “will not allow it”
2. What kind of independence is it when the Bank of England decides interest rates and Scottish government budgets.
3. Scotland has an aging population so will need more social spending. Leading to we get more out of the Union than we put in.
4. The economic case for independence rests on oil what happens when it runs out.
5. Jobs in Scotland will be threatened because so much of our trade will be with a “foreign” country – England
6. Scotland needs the “financial strength” of the Union State to deal with economic / banking emergencies.
All of us YES supporters and Wings aficionados all know this is shite from SLAB and Project Fear but to the undecideds these are very real worries which Unionists use to suck the self confidence and build the cringe.
Yes Scotland must demolish 1-6 as artfully and as comprehensively as possible and build a believable counter narrative on these points and get it out there in the form of posters / artwork, campaign packs for leafleting, the on line presence
This leads me to the final but equally important point – having created the counter narrative we also need to think of how best this can be communicated to people in a climate of Unionist control of the press and State Broadcasting. This is almost if not more difficult than creating the counter narrative in the first place.
But we cannot afford to dismiss the Unionist scares on the economy as pathetic pish from the minds of the deluded – which of course it is – it is also pure poison which we need to find the antidote for and a means of vaccinating the Scottish people against.
Morag… Open Office.
That is all.
I’ve got Libre Office, but I’m totally addicted to WordPerfect. Everything that Word isn’t. Intuitive, user-friendly and versatile.
Thanks Lanarkist,
I do have a “secret weapon” to help now. My wife is from a rich Central European country and she is, since my “exposure”, totally up front about independence whenever the topic arises with comments like “Scotland has it´s own legal system, education system, NHS (I told her that), church, parliament, football team, even your own army regiments and own pounds that are barely accepted in England. Why are you (ie “no voters”) so afraid? My country is about the same size as Scotland! And it has no nuclear weapons, no sea or oil, isn´t in NATO, is neutral and one of the richest in the world and has never been governed by Westminster. WTF are you afraid of?!”
She is an excellent and intelligently diplomatic ice breaker for the topic and doesn´t have any of the Scottish cringe hang-ups either. She´s even begun to instigate the topic with acquaintances and colleagues.
Ps, Thanks for the format fix. I have a Mac and, yes, the only time there´s ever a problem is when I use Microsoft Word programs for Apple.
Oh, and that first line in my previous-but-one post was a quote. It takes more than an absence of car sticker to get me swearing. And my car is sporting three of the damn things anyway.
@Doug and Morag
Thank you. Yes, I could tell I was wasting my time when they said the UK was a revered nation. *rolls eyes*.
My parting shot as always was to say ” It would be nice to think that “no” voters have looked at all the facts and figures and reached a balanced conclusion before deciding Scotland doesn’t merit any change in its circumstances” which hopefully it leaves them with something to ponder, other than how to do me a mischief without being caught.
Can’t wait for Saturday – was coming alone but now with two more, and a further two possibles forbye.
Kirriereoch, your wife is Swiss?
Was talking to a friend tonight, who mentioned a Lab Provost, widely known to be an independentista at heart. The tale goes that he dare not come out for LFI, because he is threatened with deselection if he does.
I don’t know the guy personally, but I do wonder about someone who puts their petty status as Provost above the future of their country. It’s sad, but I suppose that’s what decades of supping at the trough of Labour local governments does for you.
@Morag
Use the post card and sellotape – reads better.
Morag,
Glad you picked up that point about car stickers etc. I wouldn’t exactly say I was shot down on this point but when I was a part of my local Yes group It was pointed out to me by a Yes HQ staffer that Yes HQ had bigger things to do than send out car stickers to folk.
I could have punched that person (yea I know violence doesn’t solve anything). This is EXACTLY what they should be doing. The more prominent the Yes logo is the more people see it as normal.
No one should be paying a penny for a sticker or a badge. They should be handed out like free sweeties.
If Yes Scotland end the campaign (even after the yes vote) with a single fucking penny left in their account then they’ve not done their job.
@ Morag,
Close by, Austrian. Her Austrian family members can´t comprehend why Scotland would vote no. Nor anyone in Europe we´ve ever met (I´m regularly in Austria and surrounding countries due to my work – lecturing).
If you’re running a campaign based on positivity, it’s a lot harder to fight against another positive vision than it is to overcome a negative one
In reference to this I remember what Alex Salmond said in his speech at the LSE last year which went along similar lines. When you run a positive campaign against another positive campaign then the more positive will win. When you run a positive campaign against a negative campaign then the positive campaign will win. When two negative campaigns are run against each other then the least negative of the two campaigns will win.
As a result of this breakdown of campaigns I have long held the view that the YES campaign will win because all we have had from Better Together is negativity whilst, in my view, the YES campaign has been positive. This means that under the ‘rules’ stated above the YES campaign will win.
I am not ignoring the fact that we still have one hell of a lot of work still to do but I rest easy in my bed at night knowing that despite everything thrown at us by the BBC, MSM etc I know we ARE winning the argument and there is nothing the NO campaign can do that will stop us winning on 19th September 2014!
Remind me – what was the result (in terms of votes cast) last time Scotland was asked if it wanted to be independent?
The price of all the gear from YES is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to them that they’d sell ten times as much of it if they cut the prices to decent levels. I wouldn’t mind them covering the costs. Car stickers cost a few pennies each to make. I would happily pay 10p for them and then we could give them away in the hundreds.
YES Argyll has already started making its own stuff
Hetty – thanks for the compliment, but unfortunately, if I was presented with such a crowd, I would no doubt begin with “RALLY nice to see you all here”, and it would quickly descend from there.
@Kirriereoch
You should post more often. More people posting is good, it gives us more opinions, views, and perspectives.
Every bloody drug company, insurance company, car dealership, anything, gives away pens like sweeties. I have a large collection. Nobody expects to have to pay for stuff like that, or badges. It’s ridiculous. It’s not only ridiculous, it’s counter-productive and gets people’s backs up.
I do not believe they are so strapped for cash they can’t give away car stickers and badges.
Remind me – what was the result (in terms of votes cast) last time Scotland was asked if it wanted to be independent?
Remind me, what was the date of this occurrence?
Paul Wright says:
Remind me – what was the result (in terms of votes cast) last time Scotland was asked if it wanted to be independent?
Ah the old 1979 referendum question huh? :D:
No doubt other more knowledgeable folk will correct me but I do believe the result was a win for………….INDEPENDENCE! Unfortunately this referendum was screwed by Westminster because a certain non Scots constituency M.P., Labour I believe, managed to get written into the rules of the referendum that 40% of the electorate had to vote. What this conniving MP actually managed to achieve was that all votes from people who didn’t vote were counted as NO votes as were all votes from people who were DEAD!
Amazingly the 40% figure was based on the number of people on the electoral rolls in Scotland. What this figure did not take into account was the reality of the situation of people who had died but their names were still on the electoral rolls. Hence old uncle Geoffrey who died the week before the referendum found himself voting NO!
When you run a positive campaign against another positive campaign then the more positive will win. When you run a positive campaign against a negative campaign then the positive campaign will win. When two negative campaigns are run against each other then the least negative of the two campaigns will win.
I don’t think that’s quite right. It’s “When two negative campaigns are run against each other then the MORE negative of the two campaigns will win.”
You daren’t go negative, at all, because if you do, unless you can absolutely plumb the depths, you’ll lose.
Ah the old 1979 referendum question huh? :
No doubt other more knowledgeable folk will correct me but I do believe the result was a win for………….INDEPENDENCE!
Arbroath, what are you smoking? There was no independence referendum in 1979. There has never been an independence referendum in Scotland, ever. This is the first. So our new friend’s question makes no sense at all.
And there’s no sense in endorsing his error by shouting about the 40% rule. In fact, don’t shout at all. It only encourages them.
Ooops
Sorry Morag. I was sure there was a referendum in 1979.
My apologies it wasn’t an independence referendum it was a devolution referendum, I don’t know why I thought it was an independence referendum.
I knew it was a referendum of some sort and it IS past my bed time. :D:
I’m happy to accept your point on the negative campaigns Morag, unfortunately I don’t have any links to A.S.’s lecture at the LSE last year so I can’t check my failing old memory cells.
O/T Great meeting of YES SCOTLAND in Maryhill Burgh Halls .Roughly 150/170 attended.Dennis was on fire,came home with a glow in my heart.Good speaches all round,basic message of change one person to Yes,and we can win.fair put skip in my step coming down Maryhill Road.
Morag – “I do not believe they are so strapped for cash they can’t give away car stickers and badges.”
I suspect they’re more strapped for cash than many of us would like to think, hence the increase in reminders for donations they’ve made in recent weeks. Bear in mind that a lot of the big money people assumed would be going straight to Yes Scotland is still very much in the SNP’s own coffers at the moment. They’ve had to raise funds by themselves pretty much, and they’re doing that in an environment where Stu’s overwhelming crowdfunding successes suddenly led to every man and his blog trying to get in on the fundraising action, sometimes worthwhile (Common Weal and our very own Media Assassin), sometimes not so worthwhile (I shall DUGGEDLY avoid naming any names there…) I also suspect a lot of people simply take it for granted that Yes Scotland are swimming in funds and forget to donate, or may just be holding off for now.
Like you though, I’d rather give my Yes funds directly to my local campaign anyway. At the moment I’m doing that by buying stickers and badges to give away at the stall, but later on I’ll hopefully be able to help pay for print runs for leaflets which are more geared towards local issues, and stuff like that.
“Remind me – what was the result (in terms of votes cast) last time Scotland was asked if it wanted to be independent?”
It’s a rhetorical question. Scotland has never been asked if it wanted to be independent.
I think my husband’s got the point now re the 1979 referendum – he’s gone to bed in a huff.
I think Morag is right about the campaigning styles, ie if two negative campaigns are fought, it’s the most negative one that wins.
This is why the Yes/ SNP have refused to get involved in this type of campaign and why we are all screaming at the tv shouting ‘say this’ or ‘say that’ to shoot down the Labour liar, not knowing that this is exactly what they want.
They know that the positive campaign will win, that’s why they are trying to goad us into a rabble. so many yes people are calling the yes campaign lacklustre etc because it doesn’t seem robust enough in responding to labour /BT lies, not realising that this is the campaign strategy that has been adopted by Yes/SNP and one that we must stick to in order to win.
And we will win.
our job is to ‘Hold the Line’
fordie says @ 11.37
Oh my lord indeed,
his message was simple and honest did you see that brave young lady move her seat after his argument,
I AM SO PROUD OF THEM BOTH
sorry, feeling a bit emotional
thats better,
that point he made was simple and to the point, and drew that young woman in in an instant,
and his is the example we can all follow,
JUST ONE PERSON AND WE WIN
If I may add an observation from Chicago, Morag and rabb have a very good point about car stickers (known here as bumper stickers) or car magnets.
In both our 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns, bumper stickers and car magnets quickly became a very clear sign (no pun intended) of Obama supporters’ enthusiasm and the comparative lack of McCain and then Romney stickers was very quickly noted and gleefully commented upon by progressive Democratic websites like Daily Kos. Indeed in last year’s campaign, we “Kossacks” had a great time comparing notes amongst ourselves as to who had yet to see a Romney sticker, even in states where he should have had a firm grip, even as late as a month before Election Day.
If one objective is to make “Yes” voters or potential “Yes” voters feel more comfortable and less isolated, then bumper stickers and car magnets are quick, easy, and cost-effective ways to accomplish that goal.
“Hence old uncle Geoffrey who died the week before the referendum found himself voting NO!”
So did the lazy sods who couldn’t be arsed to go out and vote,
the Labour MP in question was a certain George Cunningham who himself WAS/IS Scottish
I despair of those lazy minded people who justify themselves in not voting by saying oh nothing will change anyway so whats the point,
I saw a post the other day which stated I voted SNP in every election since I was old enough to vote (paraphrased) even when it was obvious they wouldn’t win,
and that my friends is the essence of a democratic country, to vote for what you truly believe in no matter what,
I can also say from my first vote in the early 70’s I always voted SNP and not once have I received the representation at Westminster that I want,
nor do I complain I just keep voting for them.
My dad (god rest his soul) used to tell me, “voting for the SNP was a wasted vote” (now where have I heard that recently)
I responded by saying,”would you like me to vote for someone who I disagree with just so as I can be on the winning side”?
his retort was,”the labour party is for the common man son those people are just tartan Tories”
(didn’t like it when I asked him why he read the Daily Express)
I am glad my father is not alive today to see his beloved parties demise.
@Patrick Roden
What you said. 🙂
They want indignation. They want the angry response. They want undisciplined confrontation. Deny them this ground and we win.
We are so close to where we want to be. Touching distance is all that’s required in this final year and all our cards yet to play. I’d say the Rev’s hit the nail on the head in this article. They’ve shot their bolt whilst both the SG and the YES campaign have been working away patiently out of the limelight. The YES campaign have put together the largest grass roots, boots on the ground movement in modern Scottish political history. The SG have been running an effective positive government and putting together one of the most important documents in Scotland’s history. Both have been baited, smeared, harangued and lied about. A win for YES will be all that much sweeter for just a little more patience.
I can wait.
morag says
“And there’s no sense in endorsing his error by shouting about the 40% rule. In fact, don’t shout at all. It only encourages them.”
Aha but this time they don’t get to write the rules in fact I would shout that little piece of theater from the rooftops,
George Cunningham no matter what people would like to believe was not only Scottish but he wasn’t even the author
of that disgraceful piece of legislation,
he was nothing more than a stalking horse, or a goat tethered out to attract the lions,
I don’t think they (Westminster) thought that little joke would fly, I don’t think they could believe their luck when it was voted into legislation,
but this time oh this time they don’t get to make ridiculous hurdles for us while they can be voted into power with a minuscule vote ,
in a recent holiday in Devon I read an article in the local press complaining of a democratic deficit as at the last (local) elections the Councillor was voted in by just 8% of the voters registered to vote in that ward,
now its screamingly obvious that voting to become a separate country is a bit more important than voting in a counselor,
but the vote in 1979 was just a vote to give ourselves the assembly we now have, not exactly world shaking stuff, but they knew even then, give the jocks a parliament and they’ll want independence,
Dewars stance that the establishment of the devolved parliament would “kill nationalism stone dead” was self delusion and an attempt to congratulate himself on a job well done on stitching up the SNP oh I so wish he hadn’t died so I could watch him do another little dance but this time in fury.
So: Independence equals a prosperous Country.
Dependence means a preposterous Country.
Simple. Lots of brave hearts needed.
It seems that the key fear is money. Can Scotland afford it. For most folk on this site, we know we can. I work as an IT Engineer at one of the big Insurance companies in Edinburgh, and from my Unionist pals, they say, ‘If Scotland goes independent, then this <bzzzz …can’t say their name> will move everything to London. And my reply to that is ‘Nonsense (or words to that effect).
There are two things I would like to say on this.
Firstly, taking the above scenario. It won’t happen! For <bzzzz …can’t say their name> to leave, they would have to make at least 6,000 people redundant, and all of them will be on contracts of 1 month for every year worked for redundancy. Then they have to sell their buildings, and move their ‘assets’ (PC’s, documentation, furniture, etc) south.
Then the problems really begin! They need to find new Premises (London prices), find 6,000 new staff (on London salaries), train them (on London prices), get the ‘assets’ installed (by contractors on London prices), and while all this is going on, pray that there is no backlash from people in Scotland when they cancel policies in disgust, which in turn could crash the share price and start a run on them!
I’m guessing the whole exercise would cost one the giants at least half a billion pounds. Now imagine if the lot of them decide to do that in Edinburgh (RBS, Standard Life, Aegon, BoS, Scottish Widows, Royal London, etc). This country would go nuts at such a massive betrayal. If Scots started cancelling policies or closed their Bank Accounts, then that sure as hell is going to affect the £. Cameron would be screaming at these companies to stay where they are!
Just like Devolution when we these threats were issued also, then it will be the same here. They are going nowhere. Not now, not ever! If anything, they will run 2 offices. One in the heart of London, the other in Edinburgh. They will hedge their bets by having two trading rooms; one in each city.
And if Scotland remains in the EU while England pulls out, it makes even more sense to have 2 Head Offices. One can play with their deregulated banking rules in London, while the one in Edinburgh looks to business on the continent.
Secondly, to begin with, it probably will cost Scotland to go alone. I look at it like buying a house. You buy it and then have to fit the place out. It costs money at the beginning, but as the months go by, the costs will stabilise, and so normality returns.
This I believe, is what will happen post Independence for the first 5 to 10 years. Money will be spent on setting up new governmental departments, changes to benefits system, building essential buildings and roads (the A9 for example). Everything that will be required to make the transition to a stronger and better infrastructure. In some ways, BT are right, it will cost us, but not in the sense that they say. They predict Armageddon, when in fact, the spending will be on making the country stronger and more reliable.
@fordie. On my way to work and you have made my day. Thanks for the link it was truly inspirational more power to the guy who made the speech.
@JLT
Yeah, people say the key fear is money, but is it?
I think the key fear is the unknown. Everyone fears the unknown and THAT is what those bastards are counting on. When you give the unknown a name it becomes KNOWN and rationalised. Once rationalised it can be dealt with and consigned to the realm of childhood nightmares. Hence the white paper which will seek to put a name and a rationale to the fears: pensions, welfare, defence, currency, international relations and treaties. Tackled one at a time and consigned to childhood nightmare.
One thing above and beyond all else I will NEVER, EVER forgive the media, BT and Westminster for, is the systematic exposure to scaremongering tactics employed in their strategy. The creatures who dream up the stories and knowingly and willingly participate in spreading fear and uncertainty amongst their own electorate (for their own good apparently). I can get behind live and let live regardless of the result as far as the electorate are concerned. We do have to live together regardless of how passionate our beliefs are and a friend is a friend. But the media and Westminster parties participating in the current campaign strategy have earned our undying, utter contempt for what they are putting the electorate through.
For any undecided passing through, make sure you visit YES Scotland’s site. Make sure you get a hold of the salient points of the referendum issues. Make sure you go to Scot Gov’s site and get clued up on the meat of the white paper when its published. Put a name to your fears about independence and then lose the fear.
Faint hearts never won a fair lady.
@JLT.
I’m sure it is one WEEK pay for every year worked, up to a max of twenty weeks. One and a half weeks pay for every year worked over the age of forty, up to a max of twenty weeks. Companies aren’t legally obliged to pay any redundancy pay.
Re previous post.
If the company goes under, i should have added.
There is a legal minimum of around £300 for every week worked. Of course you don’t receive any benefits if you receive redundancy pay.
JLT
“… people in Scotland when they cancel policies in disgust”
I agree with what you say about it making no sense to move to London. I also think they would be more likely to open / expand small, specialist branches in London to hedge their bets.
Historically I have been a supporter of Scottish financial services institutions. However I am a bit disappointed that their trade body (http://www.sfe.org.uk/) has sat back and allowed their industry to be trashed by inaccurate pro-union articles – like the one in the Scotsman implying Scots banks having to bail out their global activities from their domestic customer base.
I have contacted SFE several times asking why they allow factually inaccurate reports that damage Scottish Financial Services. No answer to date. While I understand financial services companies are quite right to request detail and be cautious, I do not understand why they are not more active in re-butting inaccurate claims on their industry.
If this industry is not prepared to defend themselves why should Scottish members of the public?
There have been a few times when I have found myself in Glasgow at lunchtime (say between 11:45 am and 2pm. I have wandered to the YES office to see what is going on, put in a donation maybe pick up some literature.
Every single time the outer door has been open, the lights have been on, but there is no one in the front and the inner door is locked.
I haven’t seen any public hours info. Is it a public front? Can folk wander in and give them money? Or is it just a back office with a confusingly open front?
I’d like to report that I now know seven women who are voting YES 🙂
The YES Office/Shop in Hope Sreet is hardly welcoming even when it is open. The finish was obviously expensive and perhapos the money would have been better spent on free leaflets. When manned the staff are very helpful., Hwever, at the moment it is closed on Saturday when the streets are full of potential YES votes.
One wee car sticker on the door is a poor advertisement for it`s existence.
I would recommend, if you have not done already, getting a hold of Lesley Riddoch’s book Blossom. At times depressing to be frank, about the state of democracy in Scotland, but the comparisons with other Northern European countries, in particular Norway, is fascinating.
If we can engage people to think about what is possible we will secure a YES vote, lots of very powerful examples to talk to folk about in the book.
And, of course, sadly as she highlights many, many residents of Scotland haven’t the first clue about the country.
Erchie says 17 September, 2013 at 8:54 am
gavin lessells says 17 September, 2013 at 9:07 am
Has anyone actually contacted YES Scotland and pointed these matters out. I find it quite stupid that they open a shop/office, presumably open to the public, yet the public cant access on what is the busiest day of the week, namely Saturday, or during the lunch period, when most folk in offices are out an about getting lunch, shopping etc! The Shop/office is an asset that is no doubt being paid for by funds. It should be used better than it appears to be at the moment
O/T
Marvelous piece from Jim Mather
http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-building-better-future-more-independently-1-3096012
Many people are simply waiting to feel it´s okay to talk about it and that a “Yes” vote is okay and not abnormal (hence the media´s barrage attempts to “abnormalise” a “Yes” position. It stifles debate and makes people shy to express a “Yes” stance). Waiting to see it´s normal to discuss it and that the constant barrage of “NO!”
Vey valid points & experiences well expressed. Thanks for that
Erchie says:
Yes its not the most welcoming experience I had the same problem. I would have thought they would rush to meet a potential YES.
Think the YES campaign management & headquarters needs a kick up the arse to match the excellent efforts and enthusiasm of ground troops support. The website is v/poor
why is there no straightforward supporters blog?
A few weeks ago, I asked Yes campaign why the rally in Edinburgh on 21st September did not feature on their home page (which it now does). Among other excuses one of the reasons given is that they were not organising it.
It also took the SNP quite a while to give it prominence and at that, it is one of five automatic scrollers, so if you don’t hang about the homepage it can be missed.
I think anyone involved in Yes should understand the importance of a good turnout at the rally. Cannot say I am overly impressed with Yes campaign to date.
Apart from the politically minded and those involved in promoting independence, I am meeting a huge number of people every day who are completely unaware of the independence rally. I know it costs money but a few billboards in towns and cities at strategic locations would have helped to publicise it and a bilboard fund raiser would have helped. Why are Yes Scotland not being more proactive – cost it, tell us the costs and see what we can do eg “raise enough for 1 billboard in your area”. They need to act a bit more at grass roots level and get down from the ivory tower.
Re the YES campaign it seems to be a top down and yet grassroots organisation if that even makes any sense.
But their Glasgow office being open and welcoming is surely the way to reach the ‘grassroots’ in addition to locally set up groups.
YES and we also need a Glasgow Rally & March sometime in the future, so as to draw more attention in the west.
As in Catalonia, would it not be possible to stage a linking of hands across Scotland from the Clyde to the Forth ? Would that not be a great spectacle could WoS be at forefront ?
(Summer of course)
@ Doug Daniel
“Like you though, I’d rather give my Yes funds directly to my local campaign anyway. At the moment I’m doing that by buying stickers and badges to give away at the stall, but later on I’ll hopefully be able to help pay for print runs for leaflets which are more geared towards local issues, and stuff like that.”
Me too. I have a standing order paying to the Yes campaign (and to NNS and National Collective too) but prefer to focus on trying to get the local Yes group out there more distributing printed material and talking to people – sometimes it just needs a nudge to move people from undecided to Yes. I suspect that Yes do have funding issues, hence charging for mugs, car stickers, etc, to try to raise more money.
For my local Blck Iasle Yes group I’ve just had 6,000 of my own double-side indyposterboy postcards printed (http://tinyurl.com/krrt63o), and hope to have more done soon – though my bank account is beginning to whimper a little ;). Also had one or two Yes groups from other areas asking for hi-res artwork for the same thing.
So, yes, supporting the official Yes campaign is important, but sometimes it’s more efficient and effective to promote local projects first.
I’d sub to my local YES campaign, I know they’re out there, but I’ve never seen them. Not seen BT either thought I know of three Glasgow events (launch outside the Wholefoods, stall in Buchanan Street and the secret meeting with the robes and chanting in the Mitchell)
unfortunately although the article has said we’d rather not focus on the “oddity of 37%”of people that would vote no for £500 shows that for some reason or other almost 40% of Scots really do love the union only about 25% would vote Yes even if it was bad for us and I actually think this poll just shows the up hill struggle we’ve still got!
@colindunn
Like your posters. I’ll make contact through your site if that’s okay regards a Register to Vote project?
A brief comment on the 5 Live debate – as soon as I saw the still photo of the woman with her arms crossed in the black and white jumper, before she opened her mouth, I knew she was a No voter.
There seems to be something aggressive and angry about a lot of the No voters and I don’t know why.
Also is it only the No voters who have to start with ‘ I am proud to be Scottish?
The other thing is if it is a No vote – God forbid – how will any of us be able to hold our heads high when we go abroad and by that I also mean to England?
Dave McEwan Hill , how do you make the stickers?
The problem for the YES campaign, is they need volunteers. It is volunteers who man the stalls, and man the shops (as somebody above pointed out).
Stickers cost money, so do pens, and whilst you can get them in bulk very cheaply, somebody still has to pay for them. There may be an argument for giving them away in some instances, but in other cases, there is an argument against it. Drug companies do give pens away, but not always. Suggesting they do all the time, is overly simplistic. They actually choose how and when it will be done, otherwise there is a danger of cheapening their brand AND wasting their marketing budget. I do not doubt similar thoughts are in action within the YES campaign, and there may come times where ‘giveaways’ will be productive.
Just out of curiosity, I often wonder how many of the people who post here display a YES sticker on their car, or wear a YES lapel pin?
Anyway, as an aside, Saturday is going to be magnificent. Not sure if the Royal Mile will be big enough! Maybe that would be a good day to give out free stickers and pens to passers by in the street? Maybe that has already been planned, i don’t know.
Liz,
I agree, if there is a NO vote, Scotland will be the laughing stock of the world. Very few people I speak to from abroad, can see a reason for Scots wanting to retain London rule over Scotland. Many I speak to are surprised that there is even 1% of Scots wanting to have Scotland run by the parliament in England.
The upside, however, is that YES will win anyway.
almost 40% of Scots really do love the union
Well at least it’s less than half. 😉
After taking part in a Yes event in Edinburgh’s Goldenacre on Saturday morning, I posted copies of the Yes news-sheet through all my neighbour’s doors. I’ve just spoken to my favourite staunch-Unionist neighbour about another matter, and she asked if I had posted that leaflet. She and I usually have a bit of banter about the referendum, she thinks I’m nuts I reckon.
Anyway, she told me she had enjoyed reading it and that it she hadn’t known that Scotland was rich enough to become independent. She also passed the paper onto one of her friends. I’m stunned. This is a woman in her eighties, with a figurine of the Queen on her mantlepiece.
I think the information needs to be put out there, and the conversations need to be started, no matter how awkward it feels at first. Project fear can only work if we let that fear get into us.
Morag
I went into the YES office in Dunoon when on holiday there, the guy could not have been nicer and when I asked for car stickers, which I was prepared to pay for,he told me they were free and gave me the four I asked for, 2 for the front, and two for the back of the the car. He was happy to give them to me, no suggestion of charging for them.
Re: The ‘Fill the Hill’ march on Saturday.
I wonder how many of the unemployed who are rightly sick of this project fear mob would love to attend but just don’t have the money to get to Edinburgh.
Perhaps a thought should be given to holding ‘mini’ marches in each city in Scotland next year to allow these people to show their support. These mini rallies could be held on the same day as the main rally. It’s boots on the ground that the nation needs to see.
I’ve got a Yes sticker and a yes placard in my window. I am awaiting a polish one to stick in the window as well, where I stay is Polish land in Aberdeen….
Just out of curiosity, I often wonder how many of the people who post here display a YES sticker on their car, or wear a YES lapel pin?
Im Spartacus / YES to both !!!
I hope that damn hill can take more than 15,000! I think it probably can, though.
If everyone who was there last year had had to be herded into the Ross bandstand, it would have been a disaster. Nominal standing capacity 3,000, but there were probably north of 5,000 actually in there and nearly as many in the surrounding gardens. The availability of overspill space in the gardens above and to the side of the actual auditorium saved the day and prevented either crushing or disappointed people being unable to get anywhere near seeing the stage.
Calton Hill is a slightly different kettle of fish. It’s the top of a hill, rather than a natural amphitheatre. If the top is actually full, people will be stuck on the access roads and paths and probably not happy campers. However, if you look at a large-scale map of Edinburgh and compare the two venues (they’re pretty close, so it’s quite easy), it looks as if the entire area of the top of the hill is three or four times the area the marchers occupied in Princes Street gardens (including the enclosed bandstand area) last year.
I think we should be OK for 30,000. I think that’s a reasonable hope for what might show up, too.
gordoz
I sometimes find I have four of five Yes lapel badges on me by accident. I’d feel naked if I didn’t have one!
Thousands of A5 leaflets headed “AYE RIGHT” and listing a dozen pro Indy web sites will be distributed in 250 bundles via the buses. The list is headed by Newsnet and WoS.
A pdf is availabe to WoS if I knew where to send it, Rev.
Just out of curiosity, I often wonder how many of the people who post here display a YES sticker on their car, or wear a YES lapel pin?
Im Spartacus / YES to both !!!
Car is well stickered. It has acquired a scratch that looks deliberate since I did that, but it’s worth it.
I can’t wear a badge at work. Against the rules. I do have a WoS coffee mug and mouse mat, because the slogans are subtle and nobody has twigged (or if they have, nobody has said anything). One of my technicians is a strong Yes, and I have been supplying him with car stickers and other material.
Scott McCall, 10.08am
The point is that most YES supporters believe they will be more prosperous with independence, so are more likely to stick with the YES vote. Looks to me like the no vote contains a greater number of people who haven’t reached a fixed view yet. They default to the status quo due to a lack of information. When the possibility of a more prosperous future is raised, they become open to a YES vote.
This is a very important point and it lies at the heart of the YES campaign strategy. Equally important, people doubt the media and politicians and are more likely to be persuaded by people they know and trust. That’s YOU and ME, so keep talking to friends family and anyone else you meet about the benefits of independence and those polls will continue to shift in our favour.
“Distributed via buses at the Rally” that is.
Delia said above,
Regarding YES badges, quote ; “I’d feel naked if I didn’t have one!”
A great line.
@ Albalha says:
I’ll make contact through your site if that’s okay regards a Register to Vote project?
Yes please 😉
Re YES stickers – I don’t have a car so my sticker is on the kitchen window. Husband says the only people I can possibly hope to influence with it are the window cleaners.
Looks like there are only a few seats left on the coaches, at the rally website. Pretty amazing stuff.
In future years, when we are all old(er), our grandchildren will come up to us, and ask “were you at the legendary Scottish independence rally in 2013?”.
This is so exciting.
Nice to hear from you.
The guy in the shop in Dunoon
PS The shop in Dunoon has given out many hundreds of YES car stickers and would give out many hundreds more if they were cheaper. This is possible because we have a good number of faithful funders at a tenner a month, our premises is very reasonable to rent and we sell a lot of stuff from DVDs, CDs and books and anything else anybody donates PLUS we happily give out tea, coffee and biscuits for donations and gets lots of good contact and funding that way.
I would like to think that YES HQ will realise that we need more. We need prices that encourges us to buy their stuff, we need external bumper stickers, we need magnetic car posters (Vista Print do these readily from £4.50 small to £9 large and I’m sure would drop those prices for bulk buying).
I haven’t been to the YES office in Glasgow yet but reports I have say it doesn’t seem to be designed as a drop in centre for Joe Public. I would think we need that and I have no doubt if it was comfortable,welcoming and accessible enough it would be readily sustainable as ours in Dunoon is
I did see a picture of people in the YES Glasgow offices today that is going round Twitter, but it seems to be the back office and I won’t be in town today.
The do seem a bit shot-staffed, or maybe they want to ramp things up a bit.
“The Year To Go – Yes HQ Needs Your Help
Marking the year to go will involve a lot of work at Yes HQ. We expect to have thousands of enquiries to answer, donors to contact and new volunteers to engage. For that we need help. If you can spare a few hours on any day between Sunday 22nd and Friday 27th September (the week immediately after the March & Rally in Edinburgh) please sign up below. Clicking on each day will then give you the option to choose one or more two hour shifts between 9am and 5pm.”
(email of 10/09/13)
short-staffed (or is that why?)
There is something wrong at the Yes office in Hope street. Some of the postings above say that the office is closed on Saturdays as they don’t have enough staff.
I am unable to verify or deny these statements as I don’t live in Glasgow.
My brother, on the other hand, DOES live in Glasgow and he has offered his services to the office. He has been a nationalist for a very long time and was once an SNP councillor in Glasgow so he ‘kens his onions’. He got no response to his offers of volunteering help.
Something is very wrong in Hope street.
@The Rough Bounds
Their opening hours from the website, closed on Saturday.
http://www.yesscotland.net/contact
It seems that one of the ‘don’t knows’ who converted to ‘No’ during the BBC 5 live debate, was a BBC wales correspondent….. Bloody hell !!!!
Recently over from Canada where I talked with some Alberta oilmen. They were interested in the upcoming referendum in Scotland expressing initial surprise that there would be any doubt about the result. When I mentioned the Scots concern over financing (pensions, welfare, infrastructure, bus passes and free prescriptions currently available) they were quick to point out the oil supply present in the North Sea.
In their experience in handling their own companies it was the presence of oil that mattered and as soon as Scotland was ‘independent’ finance/money would be made available from multiple sources for immediate expenses/costs in preparing a nation for the world. The collateral, in their minds, was immense and together with renewable energy being worked on (which they knew about) would turn Scotland into a very well off country.
How would we pay for everything, the NO folk ask. Well the above for a start plus Crown Estate income, APD, Vehicle Tax Discs plus all the savings on Trident, HS1 and 2 and the Barnett differential on the London Sewer System.- billions!!! Next?
Hi Juteman
I hear what your saying, mate, but in the 2 Financial Institutions I have worked in; the standard seems to be one month for every year. As you say, they could try to knock that down to 1 week, by giving notice to the staff, but if they tried this after a Yes vote, with the intention of relocating, then it could be severe fireworks, as they could have several thousand folk on their backs; folk who are already peed off at a company abandoning Scotland and leaving them in the lurch, and then seeing them tear up their redundancy packages …well, it would be hitting the ‘Rage’ button in my book!
Understand what you are saying though, mate. The Governmental Standard as you say, is 1 week for every year.