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Wings Over Scotland


Louder than lovebombs

Posted on March 13, 2016 by

From today’s Scottish Sunday Express:

mckinstry

“Please, Scotland, stay with us” seems a long time ago, doesn’t it?

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David Smith

Oh, classy…

muttley79

Absolutely shameless from the British establishment and their MSM lackeys.

cynicalHighlander

Words come cheap from Westminster.

Rob Outram

Sounds almost perfect to me. Little England all on its own pretending it still has a special relationship with Trump et al while trying to work out where to put it’s Nukes

Doug Daniel

Hold on, that’s from the SCOTTISH Sunday Express?

Legerwood

Oh dear! I think the Little Englanders are going to find out just what ‘Little’ England means.

Alan Stirling

I’m glad you read all this shite so I don’t have to.

SNPsoosie

Annoying, irritating, hypocritical, total lies, hogwash – call it what you will, I’ll take it if it gets me Independence

Yeah, yeah Yoons I’m a grievance ridden, subsidy grabbing, too-wee etc etc now give me my country and get tae…..

Bill Hume

I do wonder what life in the rUK will be like if this transpires. How will rUK cope without Scotland and the EU?

But I don’t care enough to wonder very much.

Casper1066

Buy one get one free eh…..nice that that want to help, don’t you think..

Proud Cybernat

“…Scotland’s departure is a bonus, not a problem.”

Just like Scotland’s O&G is never a bonus, and always a problem.

Now I see how this works.

Dandy Dons 1903

Please keep up the sneering nastiness McKinstry-you and your kind are a gift to the Indy movement. Yoon Bozos!

Capella

Please let it be so. Soon.

heedtracker

Tory double speak is nuts though, from

“David Cameron, who now acts as the fearmonger-in-chief for the Remain Camp, eagerly peddles the line about the risks of the UK’s disintegration.”

to

“Whatever Cameron says, there will be no UK or England at all under rule of the Brussels superstate.”

The battle of the Project Fearerers, toryboy style.

Onwards

They called us separatists when we wanted to cut out the middle man, and remain in a far bigger union of real nation states.

Perhaps ‘Isolationists’ would be an appropriate label for the little Englanders.

Hoss Mackintosh

I have been thinking for some time that the right wing press and the BBC would push the English Voters over the edge and this would lead to the End of the Union.

Looks like the Brexit campaign will be the catalyst to do this.

Years of blatant racist articles and denigration of Scotland has to have an effect South of the Border as there is nothing at all to counter this.

Things are starting to unravel for Cameron and Osbourne and Brexit may well happen followed by a call for indyref2.

Going to be another interesting few months!

Neil Mackenzie

They’ll change their minds when they remember J.K. Rowling lives in Edinburgh.

David Smyth

At last.

I don’t care what the Tory press conjure up as an excuse, just make the English case for us.

Patrician

Tweeted this a while ago about EU ref “it looks like this has a chance of becoming an English independence referendum”. With each passing day it seems to be more true.

Al-Stuart

Large swathes of the English electorate are fed up with the two default modes of Scottish political culture: the outstreched hand for subsidy and the clenched fist of grievance”

The trouble with this literary excrement is that enough of the 5% of swing no-to-yes voters we need to gain our independence from the Tory Raj in London read the Scottish Daily Express and their ilk.

Until, and when we can have a proper media instead of the Unionist crapfest, it is likely that whoever writes this drudge will keep sufficient numbers of voters turned off or in the no camp to corrupt any fair and meaningful Scottish Independence referendum result.

Fortunately the MSM are slowly but surely heading towards bankruptcy* as people eventually realise the stench that passes for their produce, and desert same.


*Death of MSM: link to themediabriefing.com

scotspine

Tiddler England (waggles pinkie), who every other nation will either ignore as irrelevant, or snigger at as they yap around the ankles of Uncle Sam imagining that they are punching above their weight.

This is the beginning of the end of the Union.

heedtracker

If its Scotland that keeps England in the EU, there will be very big tantrums.

Papko

Next time , for Indyref2 , the whole UK , can have the vote , and Scotland will be voted out pronto .
At last the Yoons will get their way .

Dandy Dons 1903

Enjoy “Airstrip One” status Little Englanders, Im sure Trump will throw you some loose pocket change to help keep you going!

Proud Cybernat

Let’s face it. Being hamstrung to Cammy’s UK is like being stuck in a party with Kevin and Perry Going Wee when, on the other side of the street, Woodstock’s happening.

Tackety Beets

Here we have the classic “subsidy junkie” label on Scotland being a statement of fact that I’m happy to accept ….. For the next few months.

Actually I’m on the fence ref Eu but I’m definitely voting to stay in, as it may throw up an opportunity for iScotland as Rev points out, but I suspect the Establishment inc BBC may up their game of project FEAR in June and we will all be in EU. As you were.

That said there is a definite ” mood” doon sooth to Brexit So it’s not overly predictable.

This is a household that has re-lit the candle of hope yesterday. Thank you NS

Ps How many times did The BBC twats use “MRS Sturgeon” this weekend ?

Bill Fraser

What a load of unadulterated rubbish.Writer must have spent a lot of time with the gin bottle

geeo

Just a wee thought, if someone like ukip promised they would have a referendum on ending the union, would Cameron and co then try to adopt that as policy, like they did with the EU referendum ?

Lets imagine they did, and won next time (as expected) so HAD to deliver said referendum.

Presumably, the tories would have to campaign for keeping the great union together, as per 2014.

How on earth would he be able to do that without comppletely contradicting EVERYTHING he said during the indyref ?

“We need Scotland, because ruk is screwed without their resources” seems to be a step to far for the tories, yet, “we love Scotland, we love subsidising them and paying for the sponging jocks” seems to be a rather unlikely convincer either.

Could we not find 600 SNP candidates to stand in the rest of the uk under a single policy of “vote SNP, lose Scotland” banner ?

Hell, we might end up in charge at WM….??

Chic McGregor

On all the key pointers – food security, manufacturing level, educational level, population density, energy production and natural resources, Scotland is well placed to be a normal independent NW European country and just as successful as its Irish, Scandinavian and Dutch neighbours.

In fact Scotland is better placed than most of those.

England is not. England relies, very precariously, on a financial services sector which I sincerely hope can be retained indefinitely after Scottish independence but the runes are not at all favourable.

Heaven help them if their financial services sector goes West (actually more likely, East).

Foonurt

“Free the people now,
do it, do it, do it, now …

Well you were caught with your hand in the till … .

Dr. Winston O’Boogie

Onwards

heedtracker says:
13 March, 2016 at 11:26 pm

If its Scotland that keeps England in the EU, there will be very big tantrums.

Unfortunately there’s very little chance of that happening, but it would be pretty amusing.

west_lothian_questioner

The Scottish edition? The fukkin SCOTTISH edition? what the actual fuckity fuck?

Papadox

If we leave this kiddy on union the good ole USA will dump the Westminster wasters ASAP, the bottom will fall out of the glorious £ sterling and glorious Engerland will be up the proverbial creek with a load of out of date trident rockets in their back pocket where Scotlands wealth used to reside.

Hence the reason the lying thieving b*****bs will fight tooth and nail to hold on to us, while telling the ENGERLANDERS they are keeping us at vast expense to themselves, why? Recipe for a disaster me thinks.

Dr Jim

Where do we sign, is there petition, a vote, something, will it be quick I’m getting on a bit

I’m in, say the word,

No, say it, whit’s the word I’ll say it

(jumps up and down on my wee footsies)

Not Convinced

heedtracker said @ 11:26 pm
If its Scotland that keeps England in the EU, there will be very big tantrums.

I saw an article (in either The Times or the Torygraph IIRC) which attempted to analyse this idea. Using the polling data for how much people in Scotland, Wales & N.Ireland want to stay in the EU, and presumably taking a guess at relative voter turnout, they attempt to work out what level of support for Brexit in England could be “overruled” by the rest of us and what level of support would “overrule” us.

I believe the figures where that anything up to 52% support for Brexit could be beaten, and anything from 56% would likely be unbeatable.

As you say, England being kept in the EU “against it’s will” might be entertaining to watch. Particularly as the media will doubtless put the entire blame on Scotland and fail to mention the contributions of Wales and/or N.Ireland.

I think Cameron put the EU referendum in their manifesto to have something to bargain away for a coalition deal with the LibDems, whilst simultaneously getting the Europhobic wing of the Tory party “on side”. Would be rather ironic if it cause the self-destruction of his beloved union!

Dr Jim

How much rent can we get off the Yanks for storage
Or for letting them sail their boats round Scotland looking for the nasty Russians

Got to worth a couple of billion

A year

David Smith

I think we’re storing enough from them as it is, Dr Jim. I like to think in our new Scotland we’ll pick our own friends on our own terms, not those approved by states owned by a banking dynasty.

Still Positive.

Wow!

My eldest son who lives in Surrey had a next door neighbour who flew a St. George’s cross from his garage – on the 19th September 2014 it was flying at half-mast.

There are many of those in England who are brain-washed into thinking we are subsidised no matter how reasonable they appear in ordinary life.

It would be interesting, to say the least, if Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish votes kept us in Europe while England very narrowly voted Out.

David Mills

Scottish Sunday Express?
With peice that sound like it was pen in the “ivory tower of Westminster right wing politics” rather that from an informed Scottish perspective.
There is no outstretched palms here how could there be we are apparently a shared burden community well certainly we share the burden of these Express dogmatic outbursts well the express be arguing for Wales Northern Ireland and Cornwall to clear off and give them peace too!
What is the author attempting to achieve, other than drive down the circulation of SSExpress, is unclearly pro-exit but rather than present an argument to leave in a Scottish context they slap down the strongly pro-remain populace. THe peice has a feel of arrogance as if the author assumes the right to tell us “naughty children” to behave and fall in line or be sent to our rooms without supper again showing the underlying problem with the UK it is not a union of equals like EU but is dominated by one and control for the benefit of one city. I for one am tryed of being talked down to by hacks who can’t grasp that insulting the reads will not win them too the cause. The only way this peice makes sense is as a exercise in reverse psychology and the author is look to secure a Remain vote.

Sorry I appear to have been more annoyed by this than I thought when I embarked on this reaction indeed it is now longer that the origin of the offence if your still read I apologise for the length outburst.

heedtracker

Onwards says:
13 March, 2016 at 11:47 pm
heedtracker says:
13 March, 2016 at 11:26 pm

They do love a good whinge, the English. However if Scotland does prevent Brexit in June, I am going to go on BBC Question Time in 18 months, open my fat stupid gob and announce to David Dimbelby, “Considering how Brexiters tried to Project Fear the blessed UK 18 months ago out of the EU and only failed because of the great, nae brilliant Scots, I think every Out voter in England should now apologise to Scotland and really really mean it. Let English apologising now begin.”

Papadox

The Scottish proud yoons ain’t that stupid they are sucking the wealth out of mother Englanders wallet and laughing all the way to the bank.
The little Englanders appear to be quite happy to sub these Proud Scottish yoons to the tune of £15b a year. Very spiritual or very stupid? Doing all this spiritual work while up to their arm pits in debt themselves. Dave is either telling them the truth telling us the truth or just talking pish. I’ll put my money on the urine.

Dr Jim

Humour folks, it’s a good thing, let them convince themselves
let them upset whatever idjits will fall for it

My rellys in Wolverhampton will still come up for their holidays as I’m sure everybody else’s will

Tourism booming, the World curious will want to come and have a look like they did after the Ref, Luvvin it

It’s all good

Iain More

That was in the so called “S

mr thms

O/T About GERS 2014/15

Everyone will want to read this interesting article from July 2014…

link to telegraph.co.uk

“Washington blames UK tax rises for collapsing North Sea oil hopes

Increase in revenue tax, penalties and a cap on relief for winding down old fields have choked North Sea exploration, claims EIA”

Especially the bit on fuel duty and the fall in revenues, despite $100+ oil prices due to rises in North Sea taxes.

Makes me wonder if fuel duty is set to rise, and North Sea taxes set to fall in this week’s budget.

Wouldn’t that be a coincidence.. 😉

Ghillie

Now they’re just trying to hurt our feelings.

Iain More

I am rubbing my eyes! I feel a bout of Caledonian whinging coming on. Oh and I think I will outstretch my hand for a few bob since we have that huge Black Hole to fill allegedly. Give me enough and I could probably come up with a few grievances to throw in as well.

I think the Aussies when they referred to whinging pommes weren’t referring to us Scots! Oh to be free of the soundtrack of the Southern Shires braying their belief in their own superiority!

TD

It’s fine. No reason to get excited. If the attitude that they are better off without Scotland gains traction, that can only help us in our cause. The rationale may be fatally flawed and it might be quite unsavoury in its xenophobic nature, but I don’t think its really a problem for us.

O/T did anyone notice that Scotland beat France at rugby? If you read the BBC website, you could be forgiven for not being aware. Their headline:

“England win Six Nations as France Lose”.

This is supposed to be a news service for the entire UK and yet our country (the winning country in the event in question) is not even mentioned in the headline.

Unbelievable. No, sorry, it’s the BBC. Completely believable.

carjamtic

I have to state,I have been detoxed of MSM/EBC.

I voted YES to independance,Cultural,Political and Intellectual arguments all came down in favour of an Independant Scotland.

Though the Yoons continually told me they loved Scotland,always,always in the distance I could hear a cry of ‘Pish’.

Independance,winning the Intellectual argument aside,I still hear that cry of ‘pish’ today,I will always hear it and it always makes me smile,(that and a guy on a bike playing Empire Strikes Back).

Financially you really need to see the books,why do they keep them hidden ?,no matter hard graft,discipline,smart thinking,combined ‘proper’ planning/leadership and honesty,will bring success.

#yooncolonic

call me dave

Goodbye and watch for the door on the way oot to your new job!

link to archive.is

Al-Stuart

Papko says: 13 March, 2016 at 11:27 pm
Next time, for Indyref2 the whole UK can have the vote and Scotland will be voted out pronto.

Stu., I think Papko has an interesting and possibly vital point.

Has there ever been a study or survey on the question:

If the WHOLE of the UK voted in a Scottish Independence Referendum what would be the result?

It strikes me that such is the MSM anti-Sots propaganda induction of the poor souls south of the border that well over 50% of the population are likely to want to “get rid” subsidy-junkie, grievance-culture Scotland. Especially since Westminster has had all the oil money going and we are left with a worthless bit of little or no value.

By including England in a UK wide referendum on whether Scotland should leave the UK, this may be a productive way to expedite freedom for Scotland.

Possibly a sure fire way of achieving independence!

FULL UK-WIDE VOTE ON SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE

Do you think Scotland should leave the UK?

YES 68%

NO 32%

Macart

Heh, runaway narrative.

Who knew?

Clootie

…if that is the Scottish edition what is the story in the English copy?

The Whitehall propaganda team have done a great job in ensuring the end of the Union. Their spin to achieve a short term victory in the referendum will guarantee division and resentment long term in England.

I have to confess to being a tad upset by that article 😀

Ken500

Newspaper owner desperate to evade taxes keeps on supporting the UKIP criminal and throwing taxpayers money down the drain while ripping off Scotland and losing trade. Newspaper proprietor who supports porn tell lies every edition, trying to rip off Britain and keep the tax haven status.

The sales are plummeting and it can’t be sold because no one is buying it. More media lies.

Ken500

Any bully boys on steroids can intimidate the Ref and win a match. No wonder the terraces are empty. The commentary so bias people have to watch sporting events with the sound down. A bully gets sent off. Commentator, ‘that’s a shame he was doing a good job’.

Dorothy Devine

From the Scottish Daily Express – isn’t that just dandy?

I note that the comments below the line on the McKinstry article are quite revealing of the love felt.

May the edifice of the Fourth estate tumble about their ears – does anyone trust them any more?

Ken500

Another Labour Party stitch up. Gordon Matheson becomes a visiting Professor. More jobs for the boys. Does he knows where the bodies are buried? Goes before he is pushed. Another reward for failure. It makes a mockery of the Education system when any little naff is given a privilege position. What a joke.

yesindyref2

“Leo McKinstry [author of the article] is a British journalist and author. Born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, McKinstry graduated from Cambridge University.”

goes on in that article to say:

For too long the English, unlike the Scots, have been denied the right to express pride in their country.

Strangely enough I have a lot of sympathy with that part. To reverse what he says earlier “They blather about throwing off the colonial English yoke“, I think it’s time the English establishment threw away the yoke and became non-colonial in its outlook. They’d be doing the English people a favour, and tackle the deficit far better than austerity has. The Empire is long-gone, except in the fond memories of the two Houses of Parliament, and their absurd rhetoric.

He’s firing blanks at the wrong target.

Neil Cook

Side issue but speaking to the old boy in England and he was complaining that the Mirror had went up 10p on Saturday. He was going off his head and I couldn’t stop laughing, I said wait till Thursday when 5p a litre on Fuel courtesy of Dod got his blood boiling even further

Only bonus was his blood circulation improved!!

Giesabrek

Another interesting development – rUK could be only England and Wales should England vote to leave the EU and Scotland votes for independence. Sinn Fein have said they’d hold a referendum if England voted to leave the EU and N.Ireland voted to remain. They say it’d be a reunification referendum but I wonder whether the Republic would hold one too and whether the Irish in the Republic would vote in agreement.

Ken500

Wee Northern Ireland gets paid for it’s bigeye and sectarian. On partity with Norway when it’s economy is so appalling. The Wee Northern Ireland ‘journalists’ Masonic liars.

Taxes raised in NI (2million pop) £28Billion topped up by Westminster (50%) £14Billion = £42Billion

Norway (5million) raises £80Billion + Oil Fund

Some conceited NI Unionists bigoted ‘journalist’ has the affront to call Scotland subsidised. Every penny of Scotland surplus has been secretly and illegally diverted by Westminster over the sea to pay for the sectarian, bigoted apartheid administration in NI.

Scotland raised £54Billion. £10Billion of Scottish revenues goes to Westminster for policies which the majority in Scotland do not agreed or vote.

Parity in Scotland should mean Scotland would raise £54Billion + (50%) £27Billion = £80Billion (like Norway).

Instead the Oil sector being taxed at 60% losing Scotland £Billions (deliberately) and Scotland has to pay for grotesque projects wasting £Billions in the rest of the UK because of Westminster total fiscal incompetence. Osbourne is a lying crook who should be in jail. An international disgrace.

mealer

Aye.This Sunday Express article is representative of the views of a large and growing number of Middle Englanders.Are they going to bust a gut to save the union next time round? More importantly perhaps,are their Westminster representatives?

yesindyref2

Mmm, an interesting bar chart I found, UK exports and imports by region. As we know Scotland has a nett positive balance of trade, but Wales is even slightly more than us. Northern Ireland is slightly positive, leaving England, particularly London, the South-East and East as heavy nett importers for a negative balance of trade.

link to uktradeinfo.com

Now then, if England holds an Independence referendum and votes to leave the UK, it will also leave the £ Sterling, and will have to find its own currency or join the Euro. Scotland at least will refuse to allow it to have a currency union, due to its deficits and inherent instability.

It’ll have to apply to rejoin the EU and be at the back of the list behind Iceland (if they’re still interested). But to join the EU it’ll have to cut its deficit to 3%.

But if it has its own currency, its balance of trade will be very poor as it’ll be losing the nett positive balance of trade of Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland, and the its currency is likely to be unstable, and it’ll also have to start up its own central bank, as the Bank of England will become joint Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irisih Territory.

For its borrowing it’ll attract a premium and pay sky-high interest rates, it won’t become another Greece, it’ll be WORSE than Greece. It’ll probably have to default on its loans as it won’t have the rest of us to subsiise it and prop it up.

As for thge debt, it was the UK Government said they were responsible for it, and they will become the English Government so they take the debt with them. Us other 3 countries might consider giving them a hand-out though.

And what will it do for defence?

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

ronald russell

After attending the SNP spring conference and hearing Nicola,s brilliant speech, I thought I would read a lot of nonsense in the Sunday papers. To my surprise the only paper with a headline about the conference was the Sunday Herald.
There was quite a fair report on the inside pages I wonder what the other “Sundays” had to say? The usual lies like only a few hundred attended, we want another referendum and we will disappear into the deficit black hole.

galamcennalath

I note the Better Together company is being dissolved. If ever there was a misleading title to describe the Union, that was it!

Less than two years after the event we all know categorically, that we are definitely not better together in Union!

It’s an interesting twist. After years of trying to persuade Scots that the Union is to our benefit, those same entities are now trying to persuade the English that Union with Scotland is not to their benefit.

Of course it’s rUK which does benefit from the Union, not Scotland. Both the above are lies.

yesindyref2

I forgot capital flight. The Even Greater Depression. The City of London would become a dustbowl, and it wouldn’t be the Grapes of Wrath they’d be getting, they wouldn’t be able to afford the grapes.

yesindyref2

OT
I notice there are still links around on Unionist sites to bettertogether.net – which now sells cable TV services in the USA. I did notice it was lapsing and meant to suggest registering it for some odd reason, but forgot.

yesindyref2

OT again last time before I hit the pit. Checked yesscotland.net it’s registered until 2019-04-12. I wonder why?

T.roz

Great! Have been waiting for the anti-jock mode to kick in. If there is a loud enough voice down South telling us that Scotland should go, then some of the NO voters will change their view and think YES this set-up just isn’t fair on glorious England. Goodbye Scotland your on your own…….oh ya beauty.

Ruby

Splashed across the front page of the print edition of the Sunday Express there is a huge banner which states

BUDGET SHOCKS IN STORE AS OSBORNE BIDS TO PLUG £18BN BLACK HOLE

In view of the fact that it is claimed that Scotland has a £15bn blackhole does this mean that if Scotland wasn’t in the Union the RUK would only have a £3bn blackhole.

I just hope all the NO voters are down on their knees thanking the people of the RUK for all the sacrifices they are making on their behalf.

I can’t see any reason for Nicola Sturgeon or any YES voter to thank the people of the RUK because YES voters did not want to take money from the hard working English taxpayer.

Ruby

T.roz says:
14 March, 2016 at 7:39 am

Great! Have been waiting for the anti-jock mode to kick in.

Ruby replies

I’m amazed that it’s taken so long.

ronnie anderson

link to youtube.com

NAW

An I hope the NO, ers arent All Most Persueded.

Bob Mack

The only words missing from that piece are ” grasping” , “selfish” and” ingratitude “, which I think are a must in any proper Propoganda. These words give the whole thing life
e.g. grasping palm

selfish clenched fist of grievance.

At least if you are going to besmirch a Nation and it’s people ,do it with a little style and panache.

Ruby

‘English taxpayers’ cash that now goes into the EU’s bottomless coffers or the vast dependency culture in Scotland, where spending is £1,700 higher per head than in England, could then be spent on English public services.’

I could never understand why people in England were so keen to keep Scotland in their Union. Why did David Cameron fight with every fibre of his being to burden the English taxpayer with the expense of subsidising Scotland? What is in it for the English taxpayer?

It’s really weird that the UKOKs promoted that idea that people in Scotland hated the English but then expected the English taxpayer to fork out and pay to keep these anti-English scrougers in their Union.

Nana

O/T links

link to energyvoice.com

Funny
link to holyrood.com

Probe into historic sex abuse claims at fettes college
link to archive.is

link to aljazeera.com

Cath

I’m increasingly thinking the best outcome of the EU referendum would be England pulling out the EU and Scotland (and maybe Wales and NI) staying in. That way everyone in the UK will have a straight choice of whether they want to live in Little England, governed forever by the right wing, increasingly shrill and isolationist, or a newly independent Scotland in the EU.

If that happens, hopefully many of the UKIP and far right angry types up here would shift down and some of the more reasonable, outward looking types in England would move up, along with all the EU nationals and skilled non-EU workers who don’t earn £35,000. It may be the only way to bring some semblance of peace to what will otherwise be an endlessly fractious UK where half of Scotland want out the UK and half of England want out the EU.

John H.

After IndyRef 1 many of us thought that what really angered them was the idea that we would leave them. They want to be seen as the bosses booting us out.- You’ll go when we tell you !

Nana

O/T links

People wiped from electoral register urged to reclaim their spot
link to archive.is

Artist taxi driver
link to youtube.com

Reverse EDA disability benefit cut
link to petition.parliament.uk

link to gizmag.com

Breeks

I’ve spent time in England, some in London, and very very few English people I met had a bad word to say about Scotland. How much of that was veneer, I don’t know. Truth be known, I doubt the average English person even thinks about Scotland at all very much. When they do, it is typically a Brigadoon stereotype where we chop up our shortbread with claymores, and our grubby kids fight for the crumbs.
When folks use the word veneer, it has two meanings; its thin, and it’s a false surface applied for appearances.
I only use the word veneer because it is thin, and because it’s thin, it is fickle, and doesn’t take much hostile input from a malignant media to change a neutral open mind into one that is suspicious and mistrusting.

The danger for us, is that we are just the same. Agitate hostility towards England, and it will fester in our hearts. We are better than this. It isn’t England who robs Scotland blind and treats us with contempt. It is Westminster, aided and abetted by their pressmen lackeys.

We should keep our affairs internal to Scotland, but doing that requires a measure of control over the two lodgers who have outstayed their welcome. That means Westminster’s hand on our assets, and the vile propagandists who infest and manipulate our media.

We can defeat Westminster fairly easily, armed only with truth and a ballot paper. But the tipping point is truth; and how we circumvent this odious blanket of Unionist propaganda which stifles mature debate about the direction and future of our Country.

There will be no reasoning or compromise with a BBC which serves UK interests. It isn’t there to be fair, it’s there to shore up Great Britain and quell rebellion by guile and skullduggery rather than bullets and battens. That’s it. The whole thing in a nutshell. Westminster might reign it in once in a blue moon, like a dog on a leash, but it’s false. They are still quite happy to let it snarl at us. It’s a very cheap and effective way to keep us troublesome Scots disillusioned and in our place.

Find a way to confound this propaganda; not just the hate flashes and fearmongering, but the insidious subtlety which is always there.

The SNP say they know where they went wrong at Indyref 1. Well good, it was hardly a mystery, but since they haven’t yet declared the BBC and Unionist Press as agencies hostile to the Scottish State, I have to wonder. I’m not altogether convinced by their battle plan for victory. Ignoring the problem won’t make it go away. And don’t forget, don’t think the media hasn’t learned from its own mistakes either.

Please, break the broadcasting monopoly. Get clever. Get creative. Get difficult to contain. We are troublesome Scots. Be troublesome. Even a free Scottish radio service, or even a twice a day Scottish news podcast… Do something. Do something behind closed doors. Do something by proxy. Pull strings, pull in favours, ask for favours.

If the SNP launches into a new campaign without a strategy for defeating the propagandists, then whatever you learned from Indyref 1, it still isn’t enough.

Ken500

There is a £78Billion deficit in the rest of the UK accounts. Plus the The £18Billion shortfall in the rest of the UK sccounts. (Osbourne’s false accounting). The deficit has not been paid down in the rest of the UK. After five years the deficit and the debt is increasing because Osbourne is not raising enough tax in the rest of the UK and spending too much.

Osbourne’s grotesque projects HS2 and Hinkley nuclear station are a total waste of public money and are putting up the deficit and the debt. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. HS2 £70Billion++++Hinkley power station £25Billion+++++ = £95Billion. Add in the rest £170Billion+++ on Trident/illegal wars/redundant weaponry. A total waste of public money.

Osbourne embezzled £Billions of public money for his associates, family and friends and scanctions and starves the vulnerable to death. Osbourne is a criminal. An enemy of the State. Osbourne’s false accounting and lies are a criminal act.

Joemcg

Surely any no voter reading that will regret or think twice next time. Surely? Breeks-exactly what I’m thinking and good point. The two ambushes yesterday on the BBC plus the Dundee sham last week must convince the SNP finally that that organisation is no friend to the cause. Why entertain them? They have shown time and again to be an enemy. Any other independence cause on earth would not go on to a state propaganda tv station that was so obviously following a different agenda. Why are the SNP constantly damaging the cause by getting ripped a new one almost daily by these shills?

Ken500

The Guardian. The only paper of any independence of Editorial in Britain, because of it’s constitution, is a disgrace. ‘the acts are sacred’ is a damn lie. Just lying Westminster clickbait.

galamcennalath

Breeks says:

“If the SNP launches into a new campaign without a strategy for defeating the propagandists, then whatever you learned from Indyref 1, it still isn’t enough.”

The approaches of the two side in IndyRef was quite different, one with grassroots, the other with zero grassroots but massive influence via their loyal media. Yes’s grassroots made huge inroads, but in the face of the final propaganda surge with wild promises, Yes failed.

You are correct. The propagandists are in place, as strong than ever, and geared up for a tsunami of pro Union bull shit. The BBC in the vanguard.

Another aspect of IndyRef was Yes’s online domination. No’s online presence was a joke. Next time we should expect more serious online competition.

The SNP need to maximise on grassroots, and that means post election cooperation with other groups. However, I too am concerned that most of all, they need to tackle the most effective enemy of Scottish self determination – the propaganda of the colonial media.

HaggisHunter

Sorry O/T
Went to my local branch on Friday night to hear Mairi Black speak.

Wow, this lassie is so inspiring, plenty entertainment about life in traditional Westminster and how the LabServativeDems operate.

Also a very entertaining summary of her visit to talk at Eton college!

She said nothing whatsoever derogatory, just kept everything factual and to the point and humerous with her brilliant Glasgow banter. There is everything to like about her and nothing to dislike

Jack Collatin

QT on Thursday night. Marra , Davidson, Rennie, ProudscotsBut every one, all announced tot he UK audience that Scotland wqas a financial basket case; to wee, too poor etc.

Then the SAG in chief (Scottish Anglified Gentleman) Andrew Neil, the Great Westminster Blob himself, urged NS to thank Westminster for the £15 billion, on his pointless little Sunday show.

Of course the English Tory Rags will continue the subsidy junky theme.

They take their lead from the Scots/Unionists lackeys’ mouths every week. Scots born and proud to denigrate their nation at every opportunity.

Some may call Marra, Davidson, Rennie, and their motley Branch Office Crews Quislings, ("Tractor" - Ed)s, political liars, and the like.

Others may observe that they will do anything, say anything, and stand idly by while Scotland is transformed into a Third World Colony of the English Empire merely to hold on to their wee colonial post, and to further their own grubby little careers.

Lordships and knighthoods, visiting professorships and non exec jobs in banks, await the faithful, the ("Tractor" - Ed), the ProupScotsBut mob.

Check out the list of spectacular failures and the money they are coining in now. Darling, Foulkes, Robertson Reid, (both) Alexanders, Ming the Mighty, and so on.

Some may say that QT last week rivalled anything churned out by Nazi Germany, the USSR, or North Korea.

Some may observe all this; I couldn’t possibly comment.

However, do any of them really think that it is a vote winner to constantly deride Scotland and its people, the country of their birth, the fabulously wealthy and resource rich land in the NW of Europe?

Some would cry, ‘shame on you’.

Our day is not far off now.

Capella

@ Nana
That NHS Privatisation shocker from the Mirror was printed in 2014.
link to archive.is

The English services may have been sold off in 2015 but I don’t recall hearing about that. Did hear that the blood service was sold to an American company. Disgrace if health services, with patient private data, have been sold to US arms manufacturer!

Robert Peffers

@Rob Outram says: 13 March, 2016 at 11:05 pm:

“Sounds almost perfect to me. Little England all on its own pretending it still has a special relationship with Trump et al while trying to work out where to put it’s Nukes.”

On the subject of Trump, I have just come from doing research on USA educational standards. I needed to set up a USA grammar checker that required a reading grade standards setting.

It was a minefield to just get straight information but in the process I came across an article in the, (December 2014),USA version of the Huffington Post:-

link to huffingtonpost.com

Here is a wee sample from that Huff Post article:-

According to a study conducted in late April by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can’t read. That’s 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can’t read.

(The Bold text is by me).

Yet some people in Scotland are confident the Yanks are bright enough NOT to elect Trump.

I am no longer quite so confident.

Dave McEwan Hill

David Mills at 12.11
There is no “Scottish” Sunday or Daily Express. There is about half a dozen folk in an office in Glasgow inserting anti Scottish pish into an infantile English tabloid. They have just halved the price of the “Scottish” Daily Express to try to stop losing circulation. Whereas the Sun used to do tits the only tits on the Scottish Daily Express are those who write for it.

Nana

@Capella

I saw a link somewhere and thought I’d saved it re NHS and firms bidding for contracts. I can not for the life of me think where, it may have been on facebook.

I do recall reading Lockheed had withdrawn a bid due to public outcry, I can’t remember where that was.

It would not surprise me if they were to change their company name in order to get the contracts.

I don’t have time to search right now.

link to facebook.com

link to government-ict.co.uk

Reviresco

O/T
BBC re Easter Rising “16 executed. The British were incredibly lenient”

Rob

Robert Peffers at 09:13,

About the reading thing, was that about reading in English rather than an alternative first language, or just reading?

The yanks do have a wonderful ability to slacken a jaw.

sensibledave

Rev

I think you have confused two issues in your article.

The quote in the newspaper says “For many voters in England,the idea that a leave vote could lead to Scotland’s departure is a bonus, not a problem”.

As far as the English Electorate is concerned, there were calls for a Referendum on Independence in Scotland, a referendum was had, the result was that the majority of Scottish voters wanted to stay in the Union.

Therefore, some English voters may well see the constant “grievance” as “irritating”. What more could the English electorate have done – other than vote for MPs that would vote for a referendum on Scottish Independence?

This is juxtaposed to your “Please, Scotland, stay with us” comment – which is something the English electorate never said or agreed upon. You may argue that “westminster” or “the establshment” or “JK Rowling” pleaded for Scotland to stay in the Union – but not the English electorate – we were, and still are, generally speaking, ambivalent.

There will certainly be English voters that would “prefer” Scotland to stay in the Union – but based upon my experience (as an Englishman living in England) – they are a small minority.

And before you get all huffy in response to all of this, most voters in England want the Scots to have whatever the majority of Scots want. What they don’t want, is to be stereotyped and vilified – because the majority of Scots disagree with the main aim of this site.

galamcennalath

Reviresco says:
14 March, 2016 at 9:25 am
O/T
BBC re Easter Rising “16 executed. The British were incredibly lenient”

485 people died in fighting. Half were civilians.

It was an armed rising within the UK at a time when the Great War wasn’t going well. They could have played it much more firmly, executing everyone who fought against them.

At the time, public opinion was more for Home Rule. However, the Rising and executing the 16 swung opinion towards complete a fully independence republic and in 1918 Sein Fein took most seats outside Ulster.

That republic wasn’t achieved until 1948. Then had to make do with the Irish Free state, with some UK strings still in place. The Free State began with a nasty civil war where more died that had fighting WM rule.

Ireland is not a good model for Scotland to follow! Another century, a different situation.

Joemcg

Dave-I’ve re read that post five times and still don’t know what the F you are on about. BTW you contradicted yourself.

sensibledave

Breeks @ 8 43

…. Breeks at 8.43 seems to understand my previous comment.

Bob Mack

What do the English public think? Who cares? It does not matter one jot if they are pleased,angry or indifferent. It is not about them.

The whole crux of the matter is that I personally do not wish to be governed for the forseeable future by a Tory government. That is it.

I want to see my country totally governed by by own government on a daily basis, rather than having to deal with the limited areas of responsibility handed down by Westminster.

sensibledave

joemcg 9:49 am

You wrote: “Dave-I’ve re read that post five times and still don’t know what the F you are on about. BTW you contradicted yourself.”

Please explain what it is you don’t understand and in what way I contradicted myself.

Joemcg

galam-I hope you are right but with the establishment against us and the scenes in George square I have my doubts we are going to achieve our goal peacefully.

scotspine

@ Sensibledave

I lived in the Midlands for 10 years from 1990 through to 2006 and worked all over England in my job during that time.

With regularity, during that time, I was called jock, jockanese, sweaty, porridge wog, FRISB (That’s Fucking Repulsive Ignorant Scottish bastard by the way.

I had St George flags stuck to my number plate, was asked with tedious regularity to say “somebody’s murdered the purple burglar (apparently its funny to listen to a Scotsman roll his R’s)and had sundry folk speak to me in a Russ Abbott See You Jimmy accent.

I took some “friends” on a walking trip to Perthshire and they all threw their toys out of the cot when Rangers v Celtic was shown in the pub instead of an FA Cup Final.

Now, I’m not in the slightest bit interested in what happens in your mighty Kingdom of England, so take your “ambivalent” commentary about MY country, shove it as far up your hoop as you can and mind your own business.

scotspine

edit….1996 to 2006

heedtracker

There will certainly be English voters that would “prefer” Scotland to stay in the Union – but based upon my experience (as an Englishman living in England) – they are a small minority.

Says an odious tory. My experience is exactly the opposite sensible. I was in England in the last week of the referendum campaign and everyone I came in contact with was at first exasperated that Scotland might vote YES and then openly angry, really angry. They were so angry, I didn’t say anything, at first, then said I was a no. They all liked the heart yes, head no line.

They also all called it right sensible, close no, as we know. It wasn’t much fun, if only because the referendum wasn’t of much interest, until their historic The Vow shyst booted up and got huge coverage in England.

England is the UK sensibledave and Scotland’s merely a region it. I related to a lot of their anger though. I dont think Scots are any different really from the English as individuals, other than city and regional differences and quirks but that doesn’t make the case for Scottish devo any less important or inevitable.

Scotland is a nation state in waiting.

That’s the real headline.

Grouse Beater

The thieves take trillions in oil revenues from appropriated Scottish seas, and vast riches from plundering other nations, and they call us mendicants?

People are sectioned for terms in mental institutions for such abnormal outbursts.

Hugh Barclay

I have to say the prospect of Scotland keeping England in the EU rather amusing, for the first time ever they will have their democratic will subverted by the country next door.

Will be nice to pint out to our English friends and family that’s the deal Scotland has had for 300 years.

Not very democratic eh?

Joemcg

Dave-“English voters are ambivalent” then “in my experience those that prefer scots to stay are in a small minority” are we back at school Dave?

Proud Cybernat

“…You may argue that “westminster” or “the establshment” or “JK Rowling” pleaded for Scotland to stay in the Union – but not the English electorate – we were, and still are, generally speaking, ambivalent.”

Aye, sure. That’s why you’re not here.

This is a matter for people residing in Scotland and for them only so you can take your neb elsewhere. It’s none of your damned business and especially so if you are so “ambivalent”. You are adding little to our constitutional conversation.

Bob Mack

Less than 40 years ago if you had given the people of Scotland the option of an indyref ,the total of votes for independence would not have reached double figures.

The year before the referendum showed support for independence at around 20 odd percent. That is why Cameron agreed to the referendum.

At the referendum,the support for independence grew to around 45%.

You see, there is only one direction of travel here. It is folk beginning to realise that we can do better. The point I suppose is that can you demand that the views of the 55% are to be accepted for the next century or two, whilst clearly the support for independence is growing,rather than decreasing.

One last point. The people of Scotland are sovereign in their own country.We have the right whether you like it or not to decide our own future at any time. It is not up to anyone else.

Arbroath1320

I always suspected that the Yoons panic button was a wee bit on the LARGE side but GEEZ!

Hark what is that I hear? 😉

CLUNK … BANG … CRASH!

CLUNK … BANG … CRASH!

CLUNK … BANG … CRASH!

Oh hello there Gordon … how’s that banking job going in America? 😉

What’s that you have given it a rest for a wee while … you have returned to the land of your birth to save the union … AGAIN! 🙂

Oh I see … I understand completely … you are currently working on the VOW mark II! Good for you old boy. I look forward *YAWN* to reading it when your favourite newspaper *SNIGGER* the Daily Record prints it on their front page! 😀

ann

That paper has the gall to have “Scottish” in the name of.

That passage of text reeks of racism.

galamcennalath

Joemcg says:

“I have my doubts we are going to achieve our goal peacefully.”

I reckon there is a long established pattern to WM’s colonial dealings. They hang on for a while, playing dirty where the consider necessary to maintain a status quo. Then a combination of English public opinion and more-trouble-than-worth kicks in and they settle quickly and reasonably.

My hope is the London media assist on the English opinion side of things, as they already seem to be doing.

However, we are also in the ‘playing dirty’ phase which I also hope doesn’t get out of hand. They play a dangerous game and history shows it can also go bad before it gets better.

Almannysbunnet

All I can say is that the readers of the Scottish Sunday Express must have a thick skin to buy that paper so they can read that they are grasping ungrateful subsidy junkies. We want out of the union, they want us out of the union so the bile is aimed at the No voters who voted to stay in the union.
Strange way of thanking them.

Shane

Cringe and bare it, Bitter and offal.

dakk

I don’t recall any of the Daily Express titles calling for Scottish independence during the indyref.

On the contrary they fought tooth and nail to keep Scotland under London rule.

Are they just a wee bit fickle ?

Or are they sneaky lying hippocrites?

That’s easy.

The are the quintessential British/English establishment mouthpiece, so it has to be the latter.

Who knew ?

Paula Rose

Scottish tories seem somewhat out of step with the rest of the UK ones in that they love being subsidised – has anyone told them that down south?

Colin Dunn

@Nana

For those interested in the erosion of the NHS in England, and the sell-off to private companies, this site is a very good resource – link to greenbenchesuk.com

sensibledave

I am arguing that many here are so wrapped up in the Independence “bubble” – and are so looking for a fight with someone as a result – that they fail to see that which is in front of their face. In order to pursue the cause, an enemy needs to be created. Then, over time, because no one corrects them, the enemy they have created actually bears no resemblance to any actuality and all they do is create “straw man” arguments with the wrong people – because they are so deluded.

Over time, normal reasonableness between normal folk dilutes as the loonies start to hog the stage. Here are just a few quotes from the comments above:

Little England all on its own pretending ….. “

“Oh dear! I think the Little Englanders are going to find out just what ‘Little’ England means.”

“Tiddler England (waggles pinkie), who every other nation will either ignore as irrelevant, or snigger at as they yap”

“I think every Out voter in England should now apologise to Scotland and really really mean it. Let English apologising now begin.”

… those comments are at best immature, inaccurate stereotyping of 50 odd million people (who hold a very broad range of views on lost of subjects) – at worst, the “r” word is appropriate.

The comments seek to categorise and label a whole people into one, cheap, throw away grouping – just to suit an argument and get some “dog whistle” support on here.

The problem is highlighted by Ruby above when she wrote

“I could never understand why people in England were so keen to keep Scotland in their Union. Why did David Cameron fight with every fibre of his being to burden the English taxpayer with the expense of subsidising Scotland? What is in it for the English taxpayer?

Ruby, “people in England” were not “so keen” to keep Scotland in the Union – we were never asked. 55% of Scots were keen on keeping Scotland in the Union.

Ruby wrote “What is in it for the English taxpayer?” – further confirmation that Ruby hasn’t got a clue! The English taxpayer didn’t vote in the referendum. The English Taxpayer didn’t object to the referendum. The English taxpayer’s views were never canvassed as a populace.

What I know, and some others above seem to recognise, is that most English voters that I know just want the Scots too have whatever they want and for everyone to live in peace henceforth. I know this doesn’t help most of you above because if you actually believed that – then you would have to re-evaluate your whole position.

All I can do is pop up every now and again to remind the sane ones here to focus on the real issues – rather than the sort of nonsense quoted above by the loonies.

Breastplate

@sensibledave
Should Scotland be an independent country?

Proud Cybernat

“The English taxpayer’s views were never canvassed as a populace.”

And, lest you fail to comprehend, Dave, that is because the question of Scotland’s independence is no one else’s business but those residing in Scotland.

Now, if you feel so hard done by then canvass your own MPs and have your own referendum about your own place in this ‘Union’. No one is stopping you. And I am sure that I can speak for many here when I state that we wouldn’t butt into your national conversation in the manner that you are butting into ours.

Greannach

Calling Dan Snow and Eddie Izzard! Do you still love us?

Ruby

‘Moreover, far from weakening our nationhood as Cameron pretends, independence from both the EU and Scotland would be a tremendous catalyst for the revival of England’s patriotic spirit. For too long the English, unlike the Scots, have been denied the right to express pride in their country.

Brexit now presents a golden moment for the reinvigoration of England’s identity. On the other hand, a vote to remain means our certain national demise under the wheels of the EU’s federalist juggernaut.’

I do think we need to focus more on what is going on in England. They certainly seem to be having an ‘identity crisis’

When was England denied the right to express pride in their country?

Is that due to the UK entering into illegal wars, making a mess in Libya, Iraq & all over the place and all the child abuse. Is it because England have nothing to be proud of?

What is England’s identity?

Mac

The sad part of this is the fact that the English are lacking any real understanding of the political scene in Scotland.

The real question the English voters should be asking isn’t, as so crudely articulated by such a poorly written article, When will we be leaving, the question should be why does the UK establishment want us too stay?

It certainly isn’t a romantic notion of the “union”, No, it is the fact Scotland’s natural resources is underwriting the current national debt.

Dr Jim

We all better listen to the Arsehole troll coz he says he speaks for the majority of England
That must make him an Arsehole of great importance then
he’s been round all the doors in the great country of England
and that’s what they’ve told him

Whereas we don’t speak for the majority of Scotland, 45% and rising, is that not quite a lot you Fukcing dick

I’m in a really sweary mood today because as usual anything Scottish becomes automatically the business of the English and they don’t even see or care about how Fukcing arrogant that is

It’s about time they sorted out their own country instead of interfering in ours
Planning Wars on somebody every 5 minutes
Doctors on strike
Crime through the roof
English ministers surrounded by armed guards
Fences surrounding NO 10
Child molesting Lords unpunished
More homeless people in London than the population of Glasgow

One more thing Scotland did not run out of oil revenues
The Fukcing UK did that’s why the English Parliament is skinning the poor the sick the disabled and now the pensioner to claw back the money it no longer receives

Now we have the internet awash with self opinionated English people who think they’re somehow entitled to have a say in Scotlands business, and they would if they Fukcing lived here same as the rest of us and not the xenophopic racist rantings that emanate from that country’s newspapers
and government sponsored terrorist telly

Last night I read proud Yoonionist Tweets on how they had threatened SNP ministers and prospective candidates and were ready to get the violence started if they came to their doors again

That’s your Union, stick it as far up your Arse as it can go and get tae Fukc we don’t want anything to do with you
you’re sickening

Aaah! Better now

sensibledave

Proud Cybernat at 10:10 am

“This is a matter for people residing in Scotland and for them only so you can take your neb elsewhere.”

As a matter of fact, I agree that the question of an Independent Scotland is a matter for people residing in Scotland – and there was a referendum where the people residing in Scotland had a referendum and the majority of people residing in Scotland, for whatever reason, decided by majority that they didn’t want an Independent Scotland.

As a result of that decision by the majority of people residing in Scotland, Scotland is still part of the Union with a Parliament at Westminster (as well as their own Parliament at Holyrood).

You wrote “It’s none of your damned business and especially so if you are so “ambivalent”. You are adding little to our constitutional conversation”.

Given the outcome of the referendum, as well as the subsequent election of 50 odd SNP MPs that were voted for by the people of Scotland to represent them at Westminster and vote on matters affecting the whole of the UK, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales …. and England – in the only Parliament that makes laws that affect me – why should I not have the right to express views on these matters?

Is it democracy and free speech that you disagree with in general – or is it just the English that shouldn’t have it?

sensibledave

Breastplate at 10:56 am

You wrote “Should Scotland be an independent country?”

… its not up to me Breastplate. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, it is up to the electorate in Scotland – and when last asked, they said No.

Almannysbunnet

Re Sensible

The comments seek to categorise and label a whole people into one, cheap, throw away grouping – just to suit an argument and get some “dog whistle” support on here.

those comments are at best immature, inaccurate stereotyping of 50 odd million people (who hold a very broad range of views on lost of subjects)

Good god almighty Dave, if a few people on a blog “stereotyping” the English get you this exercised then just try and imagine how pissed off we get when the full force of the corporate media do the same to the Scottish people.

My heart bleeds for you.

Arbroath1320

So an independent Scotland starts off with NO debt … thanks Georie Porgie ya wee Towel Folder you. 😀

link to bbc.co.uk

ALL the tax and revenue generated in Scotland STAYS in Scotland and does NOT end up in wee Georie Porgie’s back pocket. 🙂

Austerity and its continual CUT … CUT … CUT to the Benefit system that HELPS the low paid, poor, unemployed, homeless, disabled and elderly disappears NEVER to show its ugly face again in Scotland, so long as SNP are in government at least. 😀

Yes I DID include the elderly in the benefits statement above for one very simple reason their PENSIONS are a benefit … apparently! 🙂

No more will Scotland have to pay for infrastructure it NEVER uses such as HS2, Cross Rail 1, Cross Rail 2, London Super Sewer, London Underground upgrade etc. 😀

No longer will Scotland have to pay for the abhorrent Trident system. 😀

No longer will Scotland be regularly put at risk by nuke transports on Scottish roads passing through our cities, towns and villages. 😀

Oh and in case anyone throws a wobbler and tries to tell us we cannae use the pound guess what? 😉

Ye cat tak yer stinky old pound and stick it where the sun don’t shine … we dinnae want it! WE have oor own alternatives! 🙂

the Ryal

the Digital Scotspound.

link to thenational.scot

You know what folks! 😉

I think I can see myself warming to this independence thingy. 😀

Foonurt

Rattus norvegicus oan ah rowing-boat, gaun doon. Fuck thum.

Scoattlin fur independence, sin.

Ruby

The English taxpayer voted for David Cameron who fought with every fibre of his being to burden the English taxpayer with subsidising basket case Scotland.

You can’t argue that the English taxpayer didn’t get a vote. They could have voted for the English democrats who I don’t believe wanted to subsidise scrounging Scotland.

The only guys in England who made sense during the IndyRef were these football fans

link to tinyurl.com

heedtracker

“I think every Out voter in England should now apologise to Scotland and really really mean it. Let English apologising now begin.”

I was trying to makee the joke odious tory. Background sensible, roughly, BBC Question Time really gave the SNP and independence for Scotland a pretty good kicking last week.

Yes, we know, England land doesn’t care either way etc but the BBC creep show seems to care enough or so little, to turn itself into a laughing stock, in Dundee at least

Anyhoo dear odious tory, in the audience was a now ex Labour candidate from east of your Scotland region, who got kicked out of SLab of calling children in Scotland who were with their YES voting parents Hitler Youth, during the ref.

So much so Britnat in the Scotland region.

Anyway last PQ show Dundee, up pops same ex SLab candidate demanding that Scots YES voters now apologise BetterTogther voters, for saving them from a fate worse than Scotland running Scotland.

Which is why I am going to do the same, when Scotland saves England from a fate worse than England running England land. That’s if the BBC Question Time clowns dont so spectacularly rig the audience like they didn’t do to Dundee.

See you there go odious tory. About 10 mins in sensibledave

link to youtube.com

Dear christ only in the Scotland region of BBC land:-(

Jack Collatin

Arbroath 1320, it occurs to me that when Andrew Neill goes for a dump we subsidise 8.5% of the penny he spends using London Sewers.

We lost the battle but will win the peace.

Not long now.

Proud Cybernat

“Is it democracy and free speech that you disagree with in general – or is it just the English that shouldn’t have it?”

You are conflating two entirely different issues to then claim you are being denied free speech. Bollox and you know it.

The issue of Scottish independence is none of YOUR business hence why YOU and YOUR compatriots elsewhere in rUK had no vote and no say in the 2014 referendum. On these matters of Scottish indy, YOUR views are irrelevant and unwelcome.

The issue of UK MPs at Westminster, however, is quite separate and is ALL our business because we ALL have a vote in UK elections, we ALL have a say–aye, including YOU. Just NOT on Scottish indy.

Are you just pretending to be thick or does it come natural to you?

Scotspine

Sensibledave.

Simply, you are an arrogant prick.

heedtracker

sensibledave says:

So what do you reckon odious tory? Was the nice ex SLabour QT BBC audience plant/member right?

How will England react when they see a massive Scotch gob shite like me going,

“Thank you David, as we say in Scotland, the case for Brexit was hung on a shoogly peg and now its fallen to floor and I am horrified that UKIPsters, Brexit voters want to try and rehang that case on the very same peg,

BBC camera creeps cut away zooms in on desolate Nigel Farage

and those of us that were told we were constantly talking England down and scare mongering, I actually think that all of us are owed an apology.”

Wild cheers from non rigged BBC audience NOT stuffed with Brexiteer toryboys.

SNP haven’t said there’s another referendum etc…

Do you get it now odious tory?

Arbroath1320

Jack Collatin says:
14 March, 2016 at 11:25 am

Arbroath 1320, it occurs to me that when Andrew Neill goes for a dump we subsidise 8.5% of the penny he spends using London Sewers.

We lost the battle but will win the peace.

Not long now.

*spews coffe out over keyboard! 😀

I think you are right there Jack. 😀

Now where did I leave the cloth … I need to clean my keyboard up . 😀

Ruby

Proud Cybernat says:

The issue of Scottish independence is none of YOUR business hence why YOU and YOUR compatriots elsewhere in rUK had no vote and no say in the 2014 referendum

Ruby replies

It is false to say that people in England had no say in the 2014 referendum. It seems to me they had plenty to say and what they said was ‘please stay we want you to stay’ ‘we won’t share the £sterling’ ‘you’ll be chucked out of the EU’ ‘Scotland ceased to exist in 1707’ ‘people in Scotland want Independence because they are ‘anti-English’ etc etc etc.

All the main political parties representing the English electorate were fighting with every fibre of their being to keep Scotland in their Union. One of them even went as far as to come all the way from England to campaign for Scotland to remain in the Union and got so angry that she has been accused of physically assaulting a supporter of Independence. She is awaiting trial but is currently serving on the Justice committee.

They even enlisted the Pope, the Queen, Obama, Barroso, every politician in the EU & and even Eddie Izzard to speak on their behalf.

Clapper57

We need more of these articles in run up to May and beyond.

Excellent promotion for Scottish Independence .

He encapsulated some of the sheeite we have to endure on Twitter by psycho Yoons.

So much better to share this Sheeite to those who rely on their (ahem) news via MSM.

Expresses perfectly why Scots are Better OUT (of UK) than IN (UK) never mind EU In or Out.

Oh Leo you are awful, but please write more of the same, keep nasty tone as it works for me and you’re a dab hand at expressing your loathing of us Scots as being subsidy junkies ya ken.

Would sae gaun yirsel but aware that you are but one of many who feel same way about us Scots.

State o you whinging (ahem) Journo lol

sensibledave

Cybernat at 11.26

You wrote “The issue of Scottish independence is none of YOUR business hence why YOU and YOUR compatriots elsewhere in rUK had no vote and no say in the 2014 referendum. On these matters of Scottish indy, YOUR views are irrelevant and unwelcome.”

If only that were true! As I pointed out earlier, many here seem to believe that the subject of Scottish Independence, or more accurately, the lack of it, is entirely the fault of the English and that we should be ridiculed and abused as a result.

Here’s a reminder of just some of those comments above, from just this thread:

“Little England all on its own pretending ….. “

“Oh dear! I think the Little Englanders are going to find out just what ‘Little’ England means.”

“Tiddler England (waggles pinkie), who every other nation will either ignore as irrelevant, or snigger at as they yap”

“I think every Out voter in England should now apologise to Scotland and really really mean it. Let English apologising now begin.”

If you don’t want English people to contribute here, because it is nothing to do with us, then tell the loonies above to stop stop being idiots.

Proud Cybernat

The point, Ruby, is that indyref#1 was none of anyone else’s business but those residing in Scotland. All those you list in your post were sticking their snibs in where it wasn’t wanted and they hand no right to do so. And they’re STILL doing it.

heedtracker

If you don’t want English people to contribute here, because it is nothing to do with us, then tell the loonies above to stop stop being idiots.

Here Here Here. Bally idiots.

Dan Huil

The more the English whinge the better. I believe we are now seeing the truth about how people in England view Scotland and the Scots.

Bitter together indeed. Time to end this disgusting union.

Proud Cybernat

“If you don’t want English people to contribute here, because it is nothing to do with us, then tell the loonies above to stop stop being idiots.”

My country has had 300 years of “English people” telling it what to do so excuse me if I don’t do as you tell me. And if you can’t stand the heat pal, you know where the effing door is. But mind the swing of it doesn’t skelp yae on the arse on the way oot.

sensibledave

Just for the record, can someone tell me the difference between a “little Englander” and someone who is pro Scottish Independence.

I get the impression, I may be being overly sensitive though, that the term “little Englander” is being used above as in a pejorative sense?

If the term is indeed being used as a pejorative, can someone then tell me, roughly, what percentage of English people fall into the category of being “little Englanders”? Just so I know.

Dan Huil

It’s dawning on more and more people, north and south of the border, that the so-called united kingdom is a manky mirage.

Ruby

I most definitely want the ‘English voter’ to contribute here because I would love to know what they are thinking!

Please note I said ‘English voter’ and by that I mean people who have a vote in England I don’t care if they are English or not.

scotspine

Bless, the poor dear doesn’t like it when he isn’t wanted.

Ruby

Proud Cybernat says:
14 March, 2016 at 11:50 am

The point, Ruby, is that indyref#1 was none of anyone else’s business but those residing in Scotland. All those you list in your post were sticking their snibs in where it wasn’t wanted and they hand no right to do so. And they’re STILL doing it.

Ruby replies

It is their business if they are the ones who have to be burdened with subsidising ‘scrounging Scotland’

What I found really strange was that they seemed so keen to bail out ‘scrounging Scotland’ and equally weird that NO voters were so keen to accept charity!

I just hope that the NO voters will heed Andrew Neil’s advice and they will all be on their knees thanking “the English, who are a marvellous people, who are really very generous to Scotland.”

Personally what I want to say to ‘the marvellous generous people’ is

‘Why are you so generous to Scotland? Are you mugs?’

heedtracker

If the term is indeed being used as a pejorative, can someone then tell me, roughly, what percentage of English people fall into the category of being “little Englanders”? Just so I know.

You, for one, sensibledave.

Fred

For fuck sake stop feeding trolls, the guy’s an arsehole end of!

sensibledave

Fred at 12:12 pm

Just so as I know Fred, is everyone that has a different opinion to you automatically a Troll?

Again, just so as I know, is there any language, insult mis-characterisation, racial stereotyping, etc, that someone might use on this site to describe a whole people, that might motivate you to ask people to not communicate with them?

Or is it just that English = Bad = Troll?

Ruby

No idea how many ‘little Englanders’ there are in England but there must be a lot because they’ve got David Cameron running scared. Why else would he have announced EVEL on the day after the Indy Ref and why else would he be having an EU Ref?

When I say I would like ‘English voters’ to contribute I would like them to be informed and be able to answer questions about what’s going on in their country. ie How many ‘Little Englanders’ are there in England.

‘Little Englander” is an epithet applied in criticisms of British nationalists, English nationalists, or English people who are regarded as xenophobic and/or overly nationalistic and are often accused of being ‘ignorant’ and ‘boorish’. It is sometimes applied to opponents of globalism, multilateralism and internationalism, such as those who are against membership in the European Union.’

We’ll find out after the EU Ref how many ‘Little Englanders’ there are.

heedtracker

Personally what I want to say to ‘the marvellous generous people’ is

‘Why are you so generous to Scotland? Are you mugs?’

Its only considered a price worth paying, a small price, to stop a few Alex Sammin cultists from breaking up their country. If Scotland is anything to your average English peeps, its a beautiful misty mountain place, with nice islands and Edinburgh’s worth a million Birmingham’s and Milton Keynes’s’sss.

David Cameron went a step further at the end of their Project Fearing terror campaign and said we must stop them stealing our country. This actually makes sense as his family and his class do actually one most of the Scotland region, but even so.

After they won, here’s the Graun thugs reportage UKOK rules the waves style. What a large pile of British bullshit this turned into, very quickly, 10 UKOK minutes afore EVEL popped out of the lips of man who likes sex with dead pig’s heads.

“David Cameron has declared a “clear result” in the Scottish independence referendum after Scotland voted by a 10.6-point margin against ending the 307-year-old union with England and Wales.

The prime minister promised a devolution revolution across Great Britain, including votes on English issues by English MPs at Westminster, as he hailed Scotland’s decision to remain inside the UK.

“There can be no disputes, no reruns – we have heard the settled will of the Scottish people,” Cameron said in a statement outside No 10 Downing Street shortly after 7am on Friday.

Earlier, Scotland’s first minister, Alex Salmond, struck a defiant note at a downbeat Scottish National party rally in Edinburgh, saying he accepted Scotland had not “at this stage” decided to vote for independence.

He paid tribute to what he called a “triumph for democratic politics” and said he would work with Westminster in the best interests of Scotland and the rest of the UK – warning the leaders of the three main parties to make good on their promises of enhanced devolution for Scotland.

“We have touched sections of the community who have never before been touched by politics,” he said.

The yes campaign scored four big successes, winning 53% of the vote in Scotland’s largest city, Glasgow, 54% in West Dunbartonshire, 57% in Dundee and 51% in North Lanarkshire.

However, the no camp was victorious in 28 authorities. It won overwhelmingly in areas where it was expected to do well, including Edinburgh, Aberdeenshire and Borders, but also in areas that could have gone to the yes campaign, including Falkirk, Inverclyde, Eilean Siar and Clackmannanshire.

In the final count, the no camp clocked up 2,001,926 votes (55.3%) to 1,617,989 for yes (44.7%).

In his speech, Cameron made clear that the constitutional reforms, including in Scotland, would not be delivered until after the general election, and that Scottish measures would proceed in tandem with changes in England. “We have heard the voice of Scotland and now the millions of voices of England must be heard,” he said.

Cameron threw down a challenge to the Labour opposition to say whether it would agree to the introduction of English votes for English MPs, and announced that William Hague, leader of the House of Commons, would advance the issue in a special cabinet committee.

The prime minister, vindicated in his decision to stage a yes/no referendum, also revealed he had asked Lord Smith of Kelvin to implement the Scottish devolution reforms set out by the party leaders in the final weeks of the referendum campaign.

He announced that the government would shortly say more about the devolution of further powers to the cities and regions of the UK.

Cameron said: “The people of Scotland have spoken and it is a clear result. They have kept our country of four nations together and, like millions of other people, I am delighted.

“As I said during the campaign, it would have broken my heart to see our United Kingdom come to an end. And I know that sentiment was shared by people not just across our country but around the world because of what we have achieved together in the past and what we can do together in the future.

“So now it is time for our United Kingdom to come together and to move forward. A vital part of that will be a balanced settlement, fair to people in Scotland and importantly to everyone in England, Wales and Northern Ireland as well.”

Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, said the referendum was a vote from the Scottish people for change. “We know our country needs to change in the way it is governed and we know our country needs to change in who it is governed for. We will deliver on stronger powers for a stronger Scottish parliament, a strong Scotland.”

But he said that would go beyond Scotland. “We will also meet the desire for change across England, across Wales, across the whole of the United Kingdom.”

Nick Clegg, the deputy prime minister, said the referendum “marks not only a new chapter for Scotland within the UK but also wider constitutional reform across the union”.

Echoing the SNP’s argument, he said a vote against independence was “clearly not a vote against change”.

“We must now deliver on time and in full the radical package of newly devolved powers to Scotland,” he added.

Yet that result raises the risk of further turmoil, with MPs from Cameron’s Conservative party threatening to revolt against the prime minister’s late and potentially vital vow to quickly increase the Scottish parliament’s powers while protecting its spending.

The Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, said Cameron’s offer of more devolution for England did not go far enough. “The English are 86% by population of this union. They’ve been left out of all of this for the last 18 years. We still have a situation where Scottish MPs can vote in the House of Commons on English-only issues. I think what most English people want is a fair settlement,” he said.

Cameron and the Queen will both move to calm tensions when they deliver statements on Friday. The prime minister will seek early in the day, in the words of one cabinet minister, to “cement in” the no vote by outlining how he will deliver the deepening of Scotland’s devolution settlement, including handing greater powers over tax and welfare, to Holyrood, Scotland’s parliament.

The Queen, who has monitored the referendum with interest, will make a written statement on Friday afternoon. It is understood that her remarks will focus on reconciliation.

The prime minister wants to move fast to show that the three main UK party leaders will live up to their commitments made during the referendum campaign to deliver what the former prime minister Gordon Brown called home rule within the UK.

Ministers believe it is important to move quickly to avoid a repeat of the 1980 referendum in Québec. The triumphalist behaviour of Ontario fuelled the separatist cause that nearly succeeded in a second referendum in 1995.

For the no campaign there was relief: a spate of authoritative polls in the final days of the campaign had said the vote was on a knife edge, bringing Yes Scotland within touching distance of victory after a dramatic surge in support.

Sterling jumped, reaching a new two-year high against the euro in Asian trading hours, as the referendum was called in favour of the no vote. The FTSE 100 opened 44 points higher.

sensibledave

heedtracker at 12:10 pm

Go on then Heedy, even though I know I am wasting my time because you are incapable of comprehension of the written word, quote me one example of where I have written something that demonstrates that I am a “little Englander”.

Remember Heedy, I dont want one of your pathetic UKOK, Red/blue Tory “cut and paste” diatribes – just quote back to me something that I have written.

Yours, in vain hope

Sensibledave

scotspine

Ah!, we get the true mission that Sensibledave has.

Paint us as anti-English.

Sensibledave, the only English person I am anti right now is you. Not because you are English, but because you live in a different country from me and you feel it necessary to comment, criticise and butt in to what is happening in mine.

Now, do piss off.

frogesque

I see Hamish on a very English lawn, carefully mown with UJ patterns… He sits with a marguerite in paw … She loves me, she loves me not …

Ruby

sensibledave says:
14 March, 2016 at 12:28 pm

heedtracker at 12:10 pm

Go on then Heedy, even though I know I am wasting my time because you are incapable of comprehension of the written word, quote me one example of where I have written something that demonstrates that I am a “little Englander”.

Remember Heedy, I dont want one of your pathetic UKOK, Red/blue Tory “cut and paste” diatribes – just quote back to me something that I have written.

Yours, in vain hope

Sensibledave

Ruby replies

You are being a silly whining attention seeking little English baby now. Please grow up!

PS If you don’t want people to call you names perhaps you could lead by example.

I know I wind you up (air punch) but that’s no excuse for you behaving like a silly little English schoolboy and calling me names. Try to be more dignified your silly behaviour is letting your side down.

heedtracker

sensibledave says:
14 March, 2016 at 12:28 pm
heedtracker at 12:10 pm

Youre merely a funny little Englander, out of your league, bearly comprehending what’s happening in Scotland you clearly know little if anything about. How frightfully little Englander of you.

From rancid The Graun’s ghastly victorious crappola of vote NO or else thuggery up there

“Cameron said: “The people of Scotland have spoken and it is a clear result. They have kept our country of four nations together and, like millions of other people, I am delighted.”

But that’s a lie innit sensible?

or

“The prime minister promised a devolution revolution across Great Britain, including votes on English issues by English MPs at Westminster, as he hailed Scotland’s decision to remain inside the UK.”

Red tory little Englander The Graun liars and hypocrites quoting blue tory shyster Cammers. But on balance sensibledave, toryboy No.1 is getting his UKOK devolution revolution, the people of Scotland are making UKOK sure of that.

Ruby

frogesque says:
14 March, 2016 at 12:37 pm

I see Hamish on a very English lawn, carefully mown with UJ patterns… He sits with a marguerite in paw … She loves me, she loves me not …

Ruby replies

Good one for the cartoon competition. I like that one.

Gotta got now! I’ve had my fun! Big thanks to English Dave.

Hasta la vista!

Jack Murphy

OT completely.
Last Thursday a pensioner stopped the Trident Convoy in Balloch on it’s way South for a checkup.
Polis arrested the pensioner.
BBC Scotland DID NOT REPORT THIS.
They cannot claim they didn’t know—-someone’s bound to have told them.
BBC Scotland depends on the public phoning in with stories.
Trident Convoy stopped,and pensioner arrested on busy road——-complete BBC Blackout.
BBC “Reporting Scotland” my foot!!

sensibledave

Ruby @ 12.24
Oh No! Now you are quoting “cut and paste” “Wikipedia” at me!

Honestly Rubes, that is really desperate.

I remember that last time the term “Little Englander” was bandied about politically. It was when the Euro currency was launched and I remember all the politicos that didn’t have a clue about international currencies and interest rates using that term to describe those that counselled against joining the single currency.

We were told that it was “inevitable” that we would have to join the currency, that we would be left behind and that we were “little Englanders” for disagreeing.

In November 1999, the never wrong, soothsayer that is Alex Salmond delivered a whole-hearted defence of the euro, single currency.

Speaking to an audience at one of Brussels’ most influential think tanks – the Centre for European Policy Studies – the SNP leader described the pound as ‘a millstone round Scotland’s neck” and challenged the euro’s supporters to launch a more aggressive debate against the new currency’s critics. ‘I think that being outside the euro area is already penalising the Scottish economy. In the medium-term, the longer we stay out, the more damage will accumulate’ he said.

How’s that working out Rubes?

Ruby, the longer a party is around, the more history it gathers, the more we can see what they are made of – and the complete cock-ups they would have made if they had had their way.

Forgive me if I assess SNP “thinking” critically when it comes to matters such as those being discussed today. I rather suspect every position they take is based upon which route is mostly likely to achieve their own agenda of Independence – rather than what might actually be best for the majority of people in Scotland – or the UK as a whole.

You see Rubes, I still haven’t made my mind up on the EU referendum debate. I had hoped, that somehow, we would all get real data and information such that we can judge the pros and cons of the arguments to make an informed decision. It doesn’t look likely that is going to happen. So many are in the “don’t know” camp.

But its easy for you Ruby isn’t it. You just wait to see which way the wind is blowing and set off in the opposite direction – just so that you can show “difference”, create grievance, and shout about the injustice of it all.

Interestingly, I get the impression that the “leave” campaign has more support in Scotland than may have been thought originally. What would happen to the Scottish Independence cause if Scotland votes to leave and England votes to remain?

What would you shout about then Ruby? Would you demand Indyref2 then Ruby – and lead the Scots out of the UK and the EU?

It could happen Rubes – careful what you wish for!

Greannach

sensibledave @1.46pm. What does “Rubes” mean?

sensibledave

Greannach 2.19

Sorry, Greenach, its just an an affectionate derivation of “Ruby”.

Grouse Beater

Dippy Dave: “Forgive me if I assess SNP “thinking” critically when it comes to matters such as those being discussed today”

It’s difficult to name a more condescending little toady than Dave, happy to prove it post after puerile post.

Here’s a sentence he made up but has no proof it exists:

“We would be left behind and that we were “little Englanders” for disagreeing.”

Kenny Ritchie

Tory Majority, EU Referendum, EVEL, and now the right-wing MSM wishing us to go. The writing is on the wall.

sensibledave

… yo Grousey I see your general disposition has not improved!

Have you no comment on Mr Salmond’s foresight and judgement then Grousey. Not even the bit when he said “‘I think that being outside the euro area is already penalising the Scottish economy. In the medium-term, the longer we stay out, the more damage will accumulate’

… turned at to be a load of bilge – just like I, personally, predicted – maybe because I know more about international currencies and interest rates than he does – and frankly, so does my dog. Mr Salmond spouted from the perspective of what he thought would cause the biggest issue for the Union rather than from any actual knowledge. But here we are, 17 years later and we know, factually, Mr Salmond was …… er, let me think of the word ….. wrong! 100% wrong. More wrong than the wrongest wrong thing.

… and yet, he and his ilk (in all parties) have no contrition, no doubt, no self-awareness – and no memory. But I have!

heedtracker

… and yet, he and his ilk (in all parties) have no contrition, no doubt, no self-awareness – and no memory. But I have!

You sound just like little Englander Andrew Neil. He was slamming into Sturgeon that Scotland cant get into the EU with that £15bn black hole, care of UKOK.gov. YOU cant get in the EU with that deficit Ms Sturgeon or you’ll be straight on austerity EU like Greece.

The EU accepts the debt crazed nutters in the UKOK Treasury sensible. Greece doesnt have the hellish burden of North Sea oil and gas, invested almost totally in the south of teamGB, so far. Still £1,5 trillion left though but thats never to be mentioned UKOK style.

Les wilson

I doubt very much that our “Scottish Sunday Express” will have passed this with the treasury.
Who will presently be having kittens. Thinking ” bloody hell, what do we do if this catches on!, oh
Shit”

liz

Why do folk bother with senseless Dave.

At least he’s got his 3 avatars sorted.

The person doesn’t want evidence, he is a troll, best ignored.

I always go straight past his comments and never read them

Ruby

liz says:
14 March, 2016 at 6:21 pm

Why do folk bother with senseless Dave.

Ruby replies

Because it’s fun winding up the trolls!

Ruby

Hey English Troll!

My answer to your mile long post is

WHATEVER!

You are a total bampot!

Grouse Beater

Ruby: “Hey English Troll! My answer to your mile long post is…

WHATEVER!”

That is sooo funny! LoL.

Had to correct this response three times so far to correct the typos caused by laughing.

Foonurt

Wull, ah’d huv ah guess, eez no yoan yin thit wiz in melt-doon, ah few months back.

Phrasing, tone ah wrichtin diffurrs. Mine ye, steiyz ah fuckin erse, fae awe angulls.

John Edgar

Panic in the ranks of the three unionist “branch” parties north of the Tweed! They are now expendable. The Westminster elite see that they only have one MP each. They do not need to rely on their Scottish outposts to assist in giving them a majority. This is especially bad news for the Slabbers. The Tories have long written off their oiks in Scotland – only one MP in the last 20 years since their collapse in 1997. Like the communist elites in the former Eastern European countries, after the Soviet leadership declared glasnost and perestroika, they were kaputt. The same fate awaits the “branches”. They will be dispensed with.


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