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Lessons in journalism

Posted on April 04, 2021 by

Fresh from being embarrassed over a ridiculous smear story this week about someone complaining to the police about the use of a well-known political phrase by a Wings commenter, Tom Gordon of the Herald went on quite the attack yesterday.

The thread, which contains a number of basic factual errors about events*, continued for several more tweets all generally rubbishing our scoop from Friday afternoon and suggesting that no proper journalist (“the rest of us”) would have run the story.

So he must be feeling quite left out this morning.

(We were also contacted by the Scottish Sun about the story, but we’re not yet sure if they’ve run anything. We’ve also spoken to Private Eye, who’d covered our scoop from last month about the resignations of three members of the party’s Finance Committee over Peter Murrell’s refusal to let them examine the books in this week’s issue.)

Panicky damage limitation is already under way by both Tom Gordon and the SNP, who are rubbishing the source of the complaint (eccentric activist Sean Clerkin) as if that will make the missing £600,000 suddenly appear back in the SNP accounts.

(And of course our best pal joined in.)

(While Liz Lloyd, unusually, didn’t want to answer any questions.)

We’re quite sure Police Scotland will rethink their entire inquiry when they hear that the Electoral Commission has previously said “It’s really not within our jurisdiction to look into this kind of thing”.

But of course they won’t do that, because if the money has been spent then it was unquestionably obtained under false pretences, and that’s DEFINITELY a crime, which is why Police Scotland sent two officers from the Financial Investigation Unit round to Clerkin’s house within hours of him giving his initial statement rather than just saying “that’s nice dear” and throwing it straight in the bin.

The SNP has now come up with three or four different stories about where the money went, but none of them get them out of the inconvenient reality that they swore up and down that not a penny of it would be spent until there was a second indyref.

Which is something Tom Gordon knows fine well, because he was the person who wrote the original story in the Herald about it.

And the SNP’s big squawking flap of a response only underlines that:

Because the money wasn’t raised to “set up an independence unit”, whatever that actually means – isn’t the entire SNP supposed to be an “independence unit”? It wasn’t raised to “make other preparations for a referendum”, whatever those might be. And it wasn’t meant to be used for vague unspecified “independence-related campaigning” in a year in which there absolutely definitely won’t be an independence referendum.

(Also, the party’s previous attempts to wave the story away involved the then-treasurer angrily insisting none of it had been spent at all and every penny was still available.)

And we now know that the current plan was to rebadge ordinary staff wages for 2021 as in fact being the “Referendum Appeal Fund”, so that it could be “accounted for” in next year’s books and the whole mess neatly whitewashed. But it’s too late for that.

The fact is that the money is spent, readers. It isn’t in the party’s accounts and political parties aren’t allowed to just hide over half a million quid in a secret cupboard and keep it off the books. The fundraiser cash has gone away. But the story isn’t going to.

——————————————————————————–

* (1) Gordon has no idea what Clerkin actually said to the police, or whether all of it came from Wings. We don’t either.

(2) Nobody told Wings anything about seeing “a police car” at the house. Our source, who was NOT Clerkin, told us very specifically that officers had gone to Sturgeon and Murrell’s house to question them about the issue. We have no idea if they went there in a car or a van or on foot or on horseback or on skateboards or on penny-farthings.

(3) The police did NOT “deny a formal investigation” at any point. Indeed, they appear to now have officially confirmed it to several newspapers, and we’ll be contacting them on Monday to ask why they refused to confirm it to us. Maybe we didn’t use the special secret real-journalist password that Tom knows.

(4) We’re not aware of the SNP actually denying that the police spoke to Sturgeon and Murrell. “The SNP has no knowledge of the investigation” is a carefully-vague phrase that reeks of the farcical distinctions both Sturgeon and Murrell made to the Salmond inquiry about which things were party matters and which were government ones.

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    313 to “Lessons in journalism”

    1. Clavie Cheil says:

      When did Tom Gordon become an SNP supporting hack?

    2. Balgowan says:

      Things change. Deal with it

    3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Things change. Deal with it”

      Fraud law hasn’t changed.

    4. ahundredthidiot says:

      Serious question then: Is Tom Gordon a member of the SNP?

    5. Balgowan says:

      @Stuart Campbell 9.42 I don’t believe anyone has said it has.

    6. Ian McCubbin says:

      Let’s hope this leads to the answers about where the funds have been spent.

    7. ahundredthidiot says:

      Police Scotland doing a Tom Cruise

      SHOW ME THE MONAAAYYYYY!!

    8. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      What will Police Scotland be “instructed” to do?
      They will be told to be diligent and spend months taking evidence and to then hand it over to to a diligent Procurator who will spend months considering the evidence before finding that it is insufficient to prosecute.

      “What money”

    9. Captain Yossarian says:

      “Fraud law hasn’t changed.”

      These laws don’t change year on year. What does change is who exactly criminal law in Scotland is applied to. It is applied to small troublesome folk now with the intention of bankrupting them.

      One of the Lord Advocate’s most senior law officers resigned in high dudgeon from Boris Johnston’s government about a year ago over the proroguing of Parliament.

      He came north again and advises our Parliament instead. Was that a good move sir?…..really?

      Listening to the Fabiani Inquiry, our parliament may as well be prorogued. Permanently prorogued.

    10. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      Tom Gordon is protecting the Union, not the Murrells.

    11. ahundredthidiot says:

      And when will people start to realise when they say ‘they’re conspiracy theories’, most people just think ‘aye, so ye’r lying then’.

      The CT badge has run it’s course, the liars need to come up with a new catch phrase.

      But the good news is the SNP can define this new ‘unit’ they set up – maybe it will be in one of their Notes from that respective Meeting…….oh wait….

    12. Laing b french says:

      And I would spend 500 grand
      and I would spend 500 more
      just to be the party that hides 500 grand
      Till the cops come knocking on yer door!

    13. Steve The Pirate says:

      I notice the Clegg article has been pulled. Was there a complaint or were there too many revealing comments?

    14. somerled says:

      Despite the obvious SNP corruption, many people are still going to vote SNP 1 and Alba 2.

      There should be zero SNP MSPs after all the lies & corruption and people burying their heads in the sand. If you vote for it, then you condone it, despite what you tell yourself. How many will wheesht for Indy? The SNP will only care about total votes cast and number of elected MSPs.

      What do you make of it Stu and what do you recommend people do ?

    15. Astonished says:

      Guess who’s going to jail ?

      “Karma, karma , karma wee evil one”.

      I’ll get my coat.

      P.S. Tom gordon must feel like a total tit . Good.

    16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I don’t believe anyone has said it has.”

      Then what’s your fucking point, caller?

    17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I notice the Clegg article has been pulled.”

      Which Clegg article?

    18. robertknight says:

      ahundredthidiot @9:43

      “Serious question then: Is Tom Gordon a member of the SNP”

      Wrong question…

      Is Tom Gordon a member of the Unionist press? If so, why is he a cheerleader for Sturgeon’s SNP all of a sudden?

      In saying that, Tom Gordon appears to be to journalism what Michael Fish was to meteorological forecasting, so if he claims there’s no hurricane predicted in relation to SNP finances, then Sturgeon and Murrell best get their twitchy bums down the storm shelter pronto…

    19. Blind Squirrel says:

      This is sad news to be honest and makes a majority of independence folk a lot less like likely at the election. Alba is pointless without the SNP. Wings has a habit of writing hard truths. Well the hard truth is you have to vote SNP first ALBA second to make any impact.

    20. Balgowan says:

      @Stuart Campbell 9.58 my fucking point is that no-one has said that fraud law has changed.

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “my fucking point is that no-one has said that fraud law has changed.”

      I gave you a chance. Piss off, troll.

    22. ahundredthidiot says:

      Balgowan

      ‘things change’ – yes, the money has disappeared

      ‘deal with it’ – hopefully, Police Scotland will.

      Fraud is serious. It can lead to jail time.

      Jail time. Indoors, all the time, with other bad people.

      Squeaky bum time for a few people and given NS habit of gleefully throwing people under the nearest bus, if my fingers were anywhere near this potential fraud, I would be taking care of myself.

    23. Daisy Walker says:

      What’s the best outcome for the Britnats?

      I’d suggest damage Nicla and the SNP to the point where there is no supermajority, but if possible keep her in place.

      To that end, this scandal is going to drag on and on, like the Scot Gov Inquiry.

      Unlikley that there will be a definitive, ‘guilty – lightbulb’ moment that would ensure the decent (but so far rather spineless) SNP elected Reps can sack her and concentrate on Indy.

      Best way to counter, from an Indy point of view – identify the good guys and gals standing on the Constituency vote and actively campaign for them. They are going to need all the help they can get.

      Both votes Yes.

    24. Fishy Wullie says:

      Stu I wouldn’t waste any more time with Balgowan, he’s obviously a f@cking retard, I’m pissing myself laughing here 🙂

    25. John Martini says:

      It has simply converted from a liquid asset into an illiquid asset.

      The 600,000 has simply changed state like water into ice. Better hope it does not change to the gaseous state and disappear like a puff of smoke.

      How long does it take to sell a house in an exclusive part of edinburgh?

    26. Lollysmum says:

      Brilliant Stuart

      You’ve just out journo’d the worst journo in Scotland. That green eyed monster must be raging beyond any form of control by now.

      Hat tip young mad & bloody well done. Thanks for the Sunday morning belly laugh. Needed that.

      You’d think they’d learn but no?

    27. Lady Lyon says:

      Quick, shoot the messenger. Absolutely nothing to see here

    28. Frank Gillougley says:

      Clegg had an article in Saturday’s grain I am sure. I Read 2 sentences and then I just faded away into the nothingness

    29. Ian says:

      The simple fact is that if the money hasn’t been spent on anything else, the SNP would be providing proof of that right now rather than simply saying it hasn’t bee spent.

      No proof = no money left.

    30. robertknight says:

      TheSNPLeftMe @9:50

      “a diligent Procurator who will spend months considering the evidence before finding that it is insufficient to prosecute.”

      COPFS – Crime Only Pays For Some

      Alright for “some”…

    31. Liz says:

      If the union realises that NS is a liability,ie she cannot stop Alba, I hope, they will ditch her for someone with more clout

    32. Douglas says:

      Re:
      ahundredthidiot says:
      4 April, 2021 at 9:43 am
      Serious question then: Is Tom Gordon a member of the SNP?

      I don’t know, it does seem that Nicola Sturgeon is favoured by some British media

      Perhaps she is useful to the British & they would be sad to see Nicola ‘now is not the time’ Sturgeon go

    33. Mac says:

      “The fact is that the money is spent, readers. It isn’t in the party’s accounts and political parties aren’t allowed to just hide over half a million quid in a secret cupboard and keep it off the books. The fundraiser cash has gone away. But the story isn’t going to.”

      I am predicting that the next line of defense will be…

      The 600k in funds have only been ‘temporarily spent’, ‘temporarily re-tasked’ to more urgent areas, to minimize overdraft costs you see, and will soon be restored back within that impregnable ringfence thingy.

    34. John Martini says:

      Laws like taxes are for the ‘little people’. There world is a moral free zone.

      Their attempt to virtue signal is a cover for their true face. There is nothing behind their mask.

    35. INDEPENDENT says:

      Well done Stuart,

      I noticed his sh**estirring a couple of days ago. Short in and out anti independence quips always pushing the negative waiting for bites.
      I just followed your excellent advice.

      DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!!!!

      Simples really.

    36. A Person says:

      Another day, another example of the unionist establishment closing ranks around Nicola Sturgeon as she and her fanatical allies concentrate all their energies on really vicious attacks on real independence supporters.

      Unbelievable that so many people can be so naive.

      I come from a very unionist family, my brother who is an arch-unionist is laughing himself silly at how gullible so many on our side are, he says it’s so obvious she’ll never do anything.

    37. chas says:

      The media and especially the ‘press’ are basically owned by Tory supporters and donors. They have enough information to really go for the SNP and reveal the corruption and downright incompetence but realise, that at this time, they do not need to as Independence is miles away despite what some may think.
      If the realistic prospect of Independence does raise its head in the very near future they will go on full on attack.
      All the dubious E Mails, WhatsApp messages, phone conversations etc will have been garnered by GCHQ or their American ‘friends’ to be used when required. Some may think that this is far fetched but those in control will not relinquish their power. Look at how the Murrell’s are behaving!

    38. Bob Costello says:

      I am not a lawyer but I have a feeling that if the money was solicited for a purpose other than than specified, and subsequently spent on another purpose then that is clearly fraud.
      If the money was collected for a specific purpose and then used for another purpose then I think that would be embezzlement

    39. Dorothy Devine says:

      So lawyers bills? Money paid to Alex Salmond?

      How much does that total?

    40. Daisy Walker says:

      Daily Record has article that Nicla failed to record a meeting with a property developer who donated £100,000 to the SNP.

      And this company has since had 7 council blocks overturned after appealing to Scot Gov.

      Folk were wondering why Judy Murray’s house in Bridge of Allan was sold for such a reasonable amount.

      Perhaps her long delayed property developement scheme in honour of Andy – that kept hitting problems because is was on greenbelt land, might be the area to consider.

      Likewise all the landbanked greenbelt countryside just north of Perth. Initially landbanked by Eaglestar.

      Given the amount of flyovers being built in the middle of farmland, as they duel carraigeway the A9 – looks like Swinney will be intervening to ensure massive house building in the area. Hey ho.

    41. Stoker says:

      I’ll stick to what i’ve believed all along. As Rev points out very confidently, & correctly imo, the money has been spent. But i believe they’ve been promised it from some yet unknown woke source, in payment for pushing through certain agendas/policies.

      And to all that i will add that i wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it transpired the UKGov were behind (somewhere) the woke lobbying of the Murrells & Co. Westminster (UKGovs) have a history of paying “lobby groups”.

      Time will tell!

    42. Lady Lyon says:

      Liz Lloyd tweets limiting who can reply

      So @SundayTimesSco say “unconfirmed rumours” when they were told clearly yesterday that no such visit took place, didn’t happen. That makes them false rumours….like much of the rest of the smear around this.

      Ok Liz, we’ll just take your word for it and banish it from our minds

    43. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Bob Costello,

      Little known quirk of Scotlands criminal law – whether its plain theft, theft by fraudulent scheme, or theft by embezzlement – its all theft and the Fiscal can alter the words ‘fraud’ to ’embezzlement’ at will on the charge sheet in a way that’s not possible for other crimes.

      Makes sense when you think about it.

    44. 100%Yes says:

      I never ever buy news papers. I think most people are starting to realize Scotland is better Independent and I miss on the marches “Tory Scum Out” I do hope its brought back its simple and to the point. And the more the Press and SNP mock or smear the Alba Party and Mr Salmond the more people will flock to the Alba Party, excellent poll today in The Times which I’m sure Wings will post.

    45. Mac says:

      Was reading today that 2017 was the first time since 1987 that Alex Salmond did not hold an elected position in the UK or Scottish Parliament.

      First time in 30 years… and within a few short months of that
      (late 2017) the wheels were set in motion to stitch up Salmond.

      Not a coincidence obviously with hindsight.

      Also who was it who so badly misplayed her hand in 2017 that 21 MPs of 56 MPs were wiped out? One of whom was Salmond. It was Nicola Sturgeon.

      You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to start to wonder about all of this.

    46. Bob Mack says:

      The cash has been used. Now the exercise is to try and cover that up by any means.

      It’s still fraud.

    47. de brus says:

      Looking good to achieve the target – we’ll find out in just over one month!!!

    48. Alice Timmons says:

      OK. Someone tell me if my galloping dementia is now sprinting but….is there not a civil case going on somewhere where a donor is asking for their money back? Or is that just Sean Clerkin/Wing’s mind control working on me?

    49. Stuart MacKay says:

      Daisy Walker

      As you say this will probably damage the Sturgeons but it won’t necessarily damage the SNP as long as it can be blamed on the rogue leadership.

      In any case it just handed Alba a fistful of aces to play with.

    50. Hatuey says:

      You’re doing a brilliant job on this, Wings.

      Let’s not for get what that 600k represents. It represents the hopes and dreams of thousands and thousands of ordinary people. A lot of those people are relatively poor.

      I’ve never seen anything like this in politics. There seems to be a complete absence of conscience in everything they do.

      Of course, this will go nowhere. They have total power over the judiciary and everything. Everyone will just turn away from the story because it’ll become so tedious and exhausting to pick the lies apart.

      In a few weeks they’ll say this story proves how honest they are.

    51. somerled says:

      Re Douglas at 10:15

      Douglas, were you born anywhere on the island of Great Britain? If so, you are British. It is perfectly fine to want independence and call yourself Scottish but you are British too so attacking the British or Brits (as our Irish friends say) is just stupid as you are attacking your fellow countrymen and women.

    52. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      ” is there not a civil case going on somewhere where a donor is asking for their money back?”

      David Henry.

    53. tartanfever says:

      Some definitions that may be useful:

      Ring fenced funding-

      Collins dictionary:

      ‘To ring-fence a grant or fund means to put restrictions on it, so that it can only be used for a particular purpose.’

      Electoral Commission guide on new parties:

      Financial reporting
      requirements and
      responsibilities

      Registered political parties

      ‘Under PPERA, registered political parties must comply with rules on donations and spending and reporting requirements.

      These rules include continuous donation and loan controls, spending controls during regulated elections, annual accounts reporting and annual registration renewal.

      These rules are to ensure the integrity and transparency of party political finance. If you don’t follow them, you may be subject to fines or other enforcement action.

      In some cases, this can include a referral for criminal prosecution.

      The officers of a registered political party have significant responsibilities, so it’s important that you understand these fully before you register with us.’

      It would seem to me that the electoral commission would have a role to play and potentially HMRC – I wonder if the fact that these are UK institutions, not Scottish, may have an effect.

    54. de brus says:

      Hatuey says:

      I’ve never seen anything like this in politics. There seems to be a complete absence of conscience in everything they do.

      You just defined politicians.

    55. Andy Ellis says:

      The responses of the dead tree press hacks in Scotland to the missing £600K indy fund, much like their abject failures to address many other SNP related stories (including but not limited to: TRA entryism, the long term abuse of Cherry and McAlpine amongst others, the institutional failures of the SNP NEC and party’s internal “democracy”, analysis and critique of the reforms of GRA and the HCB, etc., etc.), demonstrate the malaise within what passes for MSM in our poor benighted country.

      It is perhaps too easy to attribute these manifest failures to the (lack of) quality and low voltage nature of many of the practitioners like Tom Gordon, Clegg, MacKay et al., or to point out that there is definitely “something of the night” about certain individuals like David Leask. Let’s face it, the prospect of a Woodward and Bernstein exposé emerging from any of the unionist dominated Scots titles is as close to zero as Douglas Ross is to being taken seriously.

      You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to wonder why the staunchly British nationalist MSM in Scotland hasn’t laid a glove on Sturgeon, or made any effort to do their actuals jobs and submit her and her party to the ordinary levels of scrutiny that we ought to expect of any free press in a modern democracy.

      The answer isn’t hard to discern of course: our national MSM in Scotland is a poor excuse for the kind of vibrant, crusading media acting in the public interest to hold the establishment to account and speak truth to power. Rather it is a wan, etiolated husk of an institution populated largely by second or third raters, dependant on the very government it should be holding to account for its daily bread because it can’t support itself on sales, and content to run puff pieces epitomising lazy journalism and frequently consisting largely of regurgitated party political press releases.

      We deserve better. Interesting that Alba pointedly included bloggers in its early broadcasts. Here’s to more of that!

    56. 100%Yes says:

      If the Alba party is polling at 6% does this mean they will be included in Tv debates.

    57. Mac says:

      We have seen Sturgeon is more than willing to inflict enormous collateral damage on the Independence movement to destroy one man.

      We saw it with the original government level stitch-up, we saw it when that escalated to the judicial review, we saw it again when that escalated to the criminal trial, at the blocking of the public inquiries, and now by making the whole independence movement cut-off of its nose to spite it’s face… over, yet again, just one solitary man she so desperately wants to destroy.

      So looking back is it not now very possible that throwing 21 MP under the bus in 2017 was the first attempt to take Salmond out, or at least make him vulnerable for what else was coming.

      The only thing I can say for sure is that the whole seven years of Sturgeon’s leadership has been one gigantic clusterfuck.

    58. Meg merrilees says:

      Stoker- do you mean possible sources like drug manufacturers of puberty blockers for example?

    59. Kiwilassie says:

      Daisy Walker says.
      Folk were wondering why Judy Murray’s house in Bridge of Allan was sold for such a reasonable amount.

      Reply
      Daisy I don’t mean this as gossip, but I did read that Nicola bought that house for herself & her French girlfriend.
      Can anyone verify that for me?
      I live in NZ so I’m going on what I read. Mostly on twitter.

    60. Lennie says:

      “Penny farthings” aw ffs hahaha ?

    61. Dan says:

      @ Stoker

      Aye, that’s a possibility. You’ll recall the likes of SpireHealthcare dropping big wonga to Jo Swinson / LibDems.
      If they were prepared to chuck their money away on political deadbeats like that, would they not have an interest in financing individuals or parties that actually were in stronger position of power and influence to push their agenda.

    62. ahundredthidiot says:

      Somerled

      I remember watching – or rather listening – to that british shill david tenant narrating a nature documentary. Everything sunny, and positive, and graceful, was british. everything dark, and wet, and dirty, was Scottish.

      And something tells me you don’t see the Irish as your ‘friends’.

      This site is for Scottish Nationalism, not british nationalism.
      (although, many of us do like to slag off the latter)

    63. Red says:

      Clavie Cheil says:
      4 April, 2021 at 9:41 am
      When did Tom Gordon become an SNP supporting hack?

      Ah, now there’s a good question.

      You may remember Tom Gordon’s disgustingly dishonest, would-make-North-Korea-blush poison pen articles on the Alex Salmond trial, which many of us assumed was motivated by bog standard yoonacy.

      But Tam knows full well there’s something not kosher about the missing money – he reported on the ref.scot fundraiser in 2017.

      Yet here we have a supposed journalist, covering the Scottish politics beat, who is ostentatiously uninterested in a story about a major scandal in Scottish politics. Sus. Like if you walked into a local shop in Royston Vasey, and the local people announced, unprompted, “we didn’t burn him!”

      In Fahrenheit 451, the job of firemen wasn’t to put out fires, but to start them. Winston’s job in the Ministry of Truth wasn’t about uncovering truth. Can you dig it?

    64. Robert Graham says:

      A note to the SNP management and actually for their own good I not a unionist sniper at work , I don’t want the SNP damaged beyond repair until after the election , ALBA need the SNP to be in place in order to further the political ambitions of ALBA , they will be used as a stepping stone .

      Whoever is directing traffic in SNP HQ one person or part of the inner circle they need to be removed immediately, they obviously haven’t learned from past catastrophic mistakes the mistakes going back to whoever had the brainwave about removing Alex from the scene , not just removing him but jailing him.

      Untold damage has been done and unless this is stopped right now the SNP as a party will go the way Labour went that’s into oblivion they will have done what the English government couldn’t do they will bury Independence for the next decade ,

      The only savour at the present time is ALBA and that’s unless it’s too late , the fixation by the SNP of being the only game in town has hobbled any other party gaining meaningful support , the management were warned time and again to change direction this is down to the leadership and that’s been woefully lacking since Sturgeon assumed the leadership , a catalog of failures .

    65. Mhairi Hinge says:

      In other news today…

      Anger as £650m contract for SNP donor approved after Nicola Sturgeon meeting she failed to declare

      https://archive.is/z4pUN

    66. Tenruh says:

      Alba fundraiser at £13,000 of the £50,000 target.

    67. Stephen says:

      Sturgeon can hide it no longer.
      How can she get out of this one?
      Her stooge hacks at the Herald have also been exposed.
      It is clearly fraud.
      All that needs to be proved is that the 600,000 was used for the benefit of another.

      What else is she hiding?

    68. Tenruh says:

      Ha ha, just got Green News pamphlet for Spring 2021 , no mention whatsoever about independence.

    69. Mac says:

      If the SNP pay (just taking one hypothetical, randomly selected, employee) Peter Murrell’s wages and the 600k in ‘not-ringfenced’ funds were actually ‘woven in’ with all the other SNP funds, then it will undeniably be the case that a fair old chunk of the 600k (given how big his salary is versus the whole SNP payroll) ended up ‘woven into’ Peter Murrell’s bank account. (I wonder if it a joint account with his wife.)

      Anyhoo, thinking about it, that not a good look for the FM’s hubby, and CEO of the SNP, who then denied access to the SNP’s accounts to the Finance and Audit committee, three of whom then resigned.

      No, not a good look at all.

    70. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Lady Lion – “So @SundayTimesSco say “unconfirmed rumours” when they were told clearly yesterday that no such visit took place, didn’t happen. That makes them false rumours….like much of the rest of the smear around this.” Liz Lloyd on Twitter

      That’s fabulous, Lady Lion. Silence from everyone and then Liz Lloyd pops her head-up to say: “it never happened and it’s all just a smear”.

      Some people have honesty and credibility and some just don’t. Liz Lloyd falls firmly into the latter category I’m afraid.

      If she had to deal with the London press she wouldn’t last a day.

    71. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If the dosh was spent on superinjunctions, would mentioning the purchase of them be prohibited by the injunctions themselves?

    72. Nally Anders says:

      We all know the MSM will attack the Murrells and the Independence movement in the lead up to the Election.
      Fully expect much more of the same but honestly what kind of idiot is PM? Refusing to hand over the books for audit was only ever going to provide a red flag.
      Why provide an own goal?
      What kind of qualifications does that guy have and what has he been doing all these years?

    73. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Graham hopefully ALBA 2 as a vote strategy would still f go arner some seats for Alex and get some genuine Indy supporters into Holyrood.
      Worst thing will be if people get a unnerved enough that they just don’t vote!

    74. MaggieC says:

      It was financial fraud that they got Al Capone on .

    75. Meg merrilees says:

      Sorry- ‘would still garner enough votes’
      Using my phone and it does odd things sometimes.

    76. Heaver says:

      Just been listening to radio scotlands review of the sunday papers.

      Not ONE WORD about the subject our host writes on here.

    77. Andy Ellis says:

      @somerled 10.39 am

      “Douglas, were you born anywhere on the island of Great Britain? If so, you are British. It is perfectly fine to want independence and call yourself Scottish but you are British too so attacking the British or Brits (as our Irish friends say) is just stupid as you are attacking your fellow countrymen and women.”

      I think you’ll find many Scots refuse to identify themselves as British, or to identify with the British nationalist project. The fact that we have (pro tem) no choice but to have a British passport, unless we plan to emigrate and take up citizenship elsewhere, doesn’t make us feel “British” except in the sense that we were born and live in the British Isles. The term has no more meaning to most of us than a Dane saying he’s from Scandinavia, or an Icelander saying he’s nordic.

      It’s not attacking anyone to say you don’t identify as British, nor in my view is it wrong to point out that anyone in Scotland who prioritises their British identity, and who doesn’t support Scottish independence, is not in any real sense Scottish, because they relegate Scotland to the status of a glorified county: they are people of North Britain, inhabitants of a colourful part of the country they chose to identify with which has a colourful history and a funny accent.

      For the present we may legally have to state our nationality as British, but it seems as foreign to me as it must have seemed foreign for many Czechs, Slovenes, Romanians etc. to identify themselves as Austro-Hungarians before 1918, or Finns to identify themselves as Russians prior to 1917.

      To paraphrase Derek Bateman I think it was: if Britain is your country you are British. If Scotland is your country you are Scottish. If you don’t believe Scotland should be an independent country, you’re not Scottish in any meaningful sense.

    78. RutlandRules says:

      Just heard on Classic FM news that Nicola wants the “not proven” option looked at with a view to removing it, presumably to get more successful rape and sexual assault convictions. Interesting.

    79. WeeChid says:

      Mac says:
      4 April, 2021 at 10:16 am
      “I am predicting that the next line of defense will be…

      The 600k in funds have only been ‘temporarily spent’, ‘temporarily re-tasked’ to more urgent areas, to minimize overdraft costs you see, and will soon be restored back within that impregnable ringfence thingy.”

      In the Post OIffice we called that misappropriation of funds and subpostmaseters were fired for doing it. We had one who used his PO money to pay a large bill, with every intention of paying the money back. Unfortunately the money went out on the day the auditors did a spot check. they were lenient and gave a warning – until they went back a 2nd time and the same thing had happened. Lost his business and was lucky there was no prosecution.

    80. tartanfever says:

      Tenruh says:

      Alba fundraiser at £13,000 of the £50,000 target.

      – thanks for the reminder, off to make a donation.

    81. Hugh Wallace says:

      Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?

      (I’m not claiming credit for this query as I read it on Twitter made by a very credible Indy campaigner who can remain nameless until they wish to reveal themselves here.)

    82. Minekiller says:

      But of course it’s all a British State conspiracy……..

    83. WeeChid says:

      RutlandRules says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:06 am
      “Just heard on Classic FM news that Nicola wants the “not proven” option looked at with a view to removing it, presumably to get more successful rape and sexual assault convictions. Interesting.”

      I would imagine that all that would do would increase the cases, assuming jury trials still allowed, of not guilty.

      How do they get away with pissing around with our laws when they haven’t ever mentioned these things in a manifesto?

    84. Auld Jock says:

      As someone said earlier. Tom Gordon must feel like a tit. Not only a tit but a lying tit IMHO. Not even got the balls to back track, instead tries to cover his tracks. Well done Stu for persevering

    85. Minekiller says:

      But of course it’s all just a British State conspiracy…..

    86. somerled says:

      ahundredthidiot – I am as patriotic for Scotland as I am for Britain. I see all nationalism as selfish and divisive. I view this site as an advocate for Scottish Independence, not nationalism.

      BTW i studied at Dundee Uni which has thousands of Irish students and still include some as my friends today. I also love U2, the Pogues, The Cranberries and Ash but i probably disagree with all on politics.

      My comment was based on those Irish who are anti English & anti GB, like many Indy voters (but thankfully a minority)

    87. Kiwilassie says:

      This Tom Cook reminds me of Lurch from the Adams family. He is so grey even his complexion.
      I found him to be an odious man with the questions he put to Alex. This type of journalism wouldn’t be accepted here in New Zealand

    88. Mhairi Hinge says:

      Hope you like your new flag…

      https://archive.is/OYo8R

    89. Effigy says:

      2nd generation Irish who’s families have lived here for 50 years plus
      still say they are Irish.

      Would you suggest an Irishman born during British occupation should today
      call themselves British?

      When form filling I never concede to be part of the
      Deadly Empire that killed right across the globe in
      search of riches for the rich.

      First thing I establish on foreign holidays is the fact I’m Scottish.
      It instantly gave me a closer relationship with some French couples
      when over there and an Italian waiter In Rome shook my hand knowing
      about our fight to stay European unlike the insulting English stance.

    90. WeeChid says:

      somerled says:
      4 April, 2021 at 10:39 am

      I was born in the country of Scotland. I’m Scottish. If I wasn’t I would “self ID” as Scottish and could probably claim that calling me Brtish was a hate crime.

    91. Salmond dindunuffin says:

      Between the opinion of some unctuous Twitter reply guy called Tom Gordon who apparently writes for a newspaper and who says this is a non story, and the world class investigative journalists at Private Eye who say, hmm, this is rather interesting, I think I’ll trust Private Eye thanks.

      Whether it’s polling at 3% or 6%, one thing’s for sure, with the penetration of SNP/Sturgeonite influence into Scottish civil society, institutions and media, Alba is headed for “Scottish Falun Gong” status at breakneck speed.

    92. J Park says:

      Meanwhile.

      Craig and Charlie, who have helped fund our annual rallys in Freedom Square, are calling for a second vote for the ALBA PARTY.

      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/im-gonna-be-voting-salmonds-23849209

    93. Kiwilassie says:

      Mhairi Hinge says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
      Hope you like your new flag…

      https://archive.is/OYo8R

      Reply.
      That flag is disgusting. It’s got to be a joke. If not the SNP are in La La land. It’s truly horrendous.

    94. ahundredthidiot says:

      Minekiller

      No, the centre of the SNP are entirely capable of their own conspiracy, however, whitehall does seem to enjoy pulling a wee string here or there to help keep Scotland on Her knees.

      Somerled

      I bet you’ve also got a ‘black friend’ so couldn’t possibly be racist. ‘I like U2’ – what are you….ten?

      Well, take your ten your old british arse and away invade a sovereign Country for a barrel of oil, why dont you, it is Sunday after all.

    95. Red says:


      Mhairi Hinge says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
      Hope you like your new flag…

      Ha! That’s actually no bad. It’s customary for these kinds of articles to include an anagram of APRIL FOOL somewhere in the text though. They should’ve polished it a wee bit, you’re supposed to start off sober and reel the reader in with progressively more ridiculous details.

      Don’t know if our host ever wrote an April Fool spoof for the wonderfully boisterous and fondly remembered Amiga Power magazine, but this kind of thing used to be part of the fun of 90’s journalism.

    96. Fishy Wullie says:

      “To paraphrase Derek Bateman I think it was: if Britain is your country you are British. If Scotland is your country you are Scottish. If you don’t believe Scotland should be an independent country, you’re not Scottish in any meaningful sense.”

      That’s a very good point Andy, and one I feel strongly about, if you feel your country is Britain then say it don’t be ashamed but don’t call yourself a Scot or worse still a “Proud Scot”, you can’t be both IMO because to be British means denying the existence of Scotland as a nation it’s that simple to me

      I consider myself British in the geographical sense only which is no different from saying I’m a European

    97. Stephen says:

      Good to here that Private Eye have taken up the scent.
      I look forward to their next issue.
      Hopefully it is before the election.
      The Murrell first family is not a good example.

    98. Willie says:

      Dear oh dear the smell that surrounds Nicola and her coterie of control becomes ever more acrid, ever more choking.

      The Saintly Nicola Sturgeon is being exposed for exactly what she is. A front, a sham, a charlatan and someone whose behaviours are absolutely foul. This missing money is just another example of her absolutely malign leadership.

      No doubt our patron saint will have no knowledge of the missing money. Nothing to do with her and will never ever ever have spoken a word about party finances with her chief executive husband Peter.

      But let us be clear, the missing money was money given by donors in good faith to fund a referendum campaign. It was not Sturgeon, or her husband’s right to spend it on paying Murrell salary, Alan Smith’s legal fees or whatever it was spent on.

      Once again the Rev has brought this outrageous misappropriation of funds to our attention failing which very few if any would ever have known about the missing funds and the rock bottom state of party finances.

      Nor would we have known about all of the dirty dealings trying to fit up Alex Salmond.

      Sturgeon quite frankly has taken a once great party and done everything she can to ruin it. Indeed she’s actually calling to maintain dozens of unionist MSPs in Parliament by calling for a simple majority.

      Maybe now we’re getting a view as to why the now Sherriff Olga Pasportkinov found three serious complaints against a 28 year old solicitor who promptly then left the legal profession.

      But the SNP is not Nicola Sturgeon, her husband and the close coterie of control. They will be gone soon and the key for the moment is to get as many SNP – Alba seats as possible and then sort things out after the election.

    99. Hood says:

      Mhairi Hinge says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
      Hope you like your new flag…

      this is the 4th of April, that was posted on Scotland in Unions page 3 days prior 😉

    100. 100%Yes says:

      In The Scotsman its saying.The Proclaimers: Legendary Edinburgh rock duo announce they are backing the Alba party, fantastic news well done lads.

    101. Kiwilassie says:

      Effigy says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:16 am
      2nd generation Irish w

      Reply
      I have lived in New Zealand for over 50 years. Came here in my twenties. I’m 100% Scot & will be to the day I die.
      However I respect my new country & would never do anything to undermine it. My son is a Kiwi & he is proud of the country he was born in.
      He in his heart & soul is a Kiwi, me in my heart I’m still a Scot.
      You can take the Scot out of Scotland , but you can’t take Scotland out of the Scot.

    102. Effigy says:

      Just been sent a video of loyalists rioting on the
      Streets of Belfast.

      They are attacking police cars without any attempt
      to hide their identity.

      Throwing missiles at their windshields from a few feet away
      pushing shopkeepers waste bins in front of them.

      The police just drive very slowly blocking the road hoping to clear them away.
      They have no interest is apprehending any of them no matter what crime is committed.

      They wave their Union Jacks as a sign that Westminster supporters are beyond the law.

      Boy will the thugs and constabulary be having a bad day when Irish unification unfolds.

    103. tartanfever says:

      Hugh Wallace @ 11.11

      ‘Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?’

      Because it has to be accounted for in your tax returns/financial statement. Claiming publicly that you raised £600k for it not to appear in you annual financial return to HMRC and the Electoral Commission would be one of the stupidest moves of all time.

      It’s entirely the point of this whole investigation.

      Simply put, it’s called fraud.

    104. ahundredthidiot says:

      2014 was a question – are you British or are you Scottish.

      Fortunately, since then, many have had the courage to cross the Rubicon.

      I respect those who say they are British. I do not have a great deal of time for those who say they are Scottish and British – they are just delusional.

    105. somerled says:

      Andy Ellis – That sounds like more identity politics. Do you believe men can self ID as women too ?

      You’re British but you only identify as Scottish, ignoring that Scotland is part of Britain, in geography as well as history. I choose to call myself Scottish, British and European.

      How other countries view themselves is irrelevant. Aren’t we all Europeans anyway? How can you say you want independence but still want EU giving you orders ? Do you actually know what independent means? Why don’t you just admit you hate the English?

      I have no idea who Master Bateman was but he and you don’t get to decide if i love my country. People like you and Alex Salmond may enjoy gambling with peoples lives but its a risk i am not prepared to take.

    106. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      @somerled

      Many people born on the island of Britain hold Irish passports by choice. This has increased significantly in the last few years as they are Irish and therefore retain EU Citizenship.

      I know a few people who will only have an Irish passport until they can have Irish/Scottish dual nationality.

      Do you know that under the Good Friday Agreement anyone with a Grandparent on the Island of Ireland can obtain an Irish Passport. It is not just Ireland but Northern Ireland. Now as a loyal Unionist you have a dilemma – Are Northern Ireland Citizens British or Irish – the correct answer is they are both.

      Now piss off.

    107. K Campbell says:

      Kiwilassie says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:21 am
      Mhairi Hinge says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
      Hope you like your new flag…

      https://archive.is/OYo8R

      Reply.
      That flag is disgusting. It’s got to be a joke. If not the SNP are in La La land. It’s truly horrendous.

      Reply, but it provides a convenient cover for where the £600k went!

    108. andy i says:

      Liz Lloyd clearly knows what’s going on. I think that some newspaper editors should be pumping her ..for infomation.

    109. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Calling all screenwriters—Hollywood studio executives are already circling in anticipation of the definitive treatment of this very Scottish epic.

      Meanwhile, Warky&Co have already submitted their docudrama pitch to the BBC, so you might as well forget about gaining a hearing there.

    110. Pixywine says:

      “Penny Farthings” Hahahaha

    111. Captain Yossarian says:

      “the key for the moment is to get as many SNP – Alba seats as possible and then sort things out after the election.”

      That won’t work Willie and is just a recipe for trouble. The MSP’s vote for FM and if Sturgeon makes it to the election that will be her.

      If she doesn’t make it to the election then I can think of two possible candidates.

    112. highseastim says:

      Meanwhile back in reality, still haven’t met a single person giving their second vote to Alba.

    113. Old Man of Gor says:

      If the funds raised are sitting in a “Referendum Appeal Fund” bank account somewhere then it should be very straightforward to produce a copy of the bank statement, or a certificate from the bank. Why the balance in that account isn’t shown in the party accounts would be a secondary, follow on question.

      On the other hand, if the funds raised are not in sitting in a separate bank account then those who contributed are fully entitled to know why, and where they are, since the whole purpose of “ring fencing” was surely to stop the funds from being spent on general party activities.

      References to the money having “already helped us…” simply confuses, and causes the suspicious among us to wonder if it has all been it has been spent already…

      If there’s no fire then it shouldn’t be difficult to blow away the smoke.

    114. Mhairi Hinge says:

      OK – hands up on the flag. It looks like they got me. Oops.

      The clue (which I finally spotted) is in the name of the consultant at the bottom of the alleged documents, “Donaldson MacEwen & Young”.

    115. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      @highseastim

      I would be surprised if you did in Kent.

    116. Andy Ellis says:

      @somerled 11.33am

      No, of course I don’t believe men can self identify as women. Nobody sane does.

      Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t particularly want to be part of the EU: they squandered my support as a result of their treatment of Greece post financial crisis, and their failure to act against Spain WRT their repression in Catalonia and failure to sanction the actions of regressive regimes in Hungary and Poland. Given we will not be members, I’d actually advocate for a Norway style arrangement, but I suspect the majority of Scots will prefer to apply for full EU membership.

      It’s a lazy trope accusing others who disagree with you of hating the English. It says much more about you, and your inability to form a cogent counter argument, still less present any evidence, than it says about my original point. My paternal grandmother was English. My wife is English. It’d be news to them and my English family that I hate the English. I lived for 25 years in England and gained my undergraduate degree from an English university. The English are a fine people, but they have their own destiny, and we have ours.

      You’re just another etiolated “proud Scot but….”. It is indeed hard to free slaves from chains they revere. Sounds like you’re just another “house slave” scared to risk your benefits. Stun us with another.

    117. Wee Willie says:

      Is Scottish Nationalism good but English Nationalism bad? It seems to me the English have been remarkably tolerant of the hatred and bile spouted at them by some Scottish people. I often wonder when this tolerance might change to something else.

    118. Stephen says:

      I see that the Herald have now capitulated and are now covering the story.
      Tom Gordon didn’t write it though.
      Is he on the naughty step?

    119. ahundredthidiot says:

      highsteam

      Let me introduce you to my family……There is about 20 of us and we have always voted SNP in all voting.

      I now have around half confirmed as SNP 1 ALBA 2.

      The other half will take a bit more time, but I’m optimistic.

      Do try to get out more.

      Stand Together SNP 1 ALBA 2

      (Justice can still take it’s course with any alleged fraud)

    120. Fishy Wullie says:

      You’re British but you only identify as Scottish, ignoring that Scotland is part of Britain, in geography as well as history. I choose to call myself Scottish, British and European.

      Nobody is ignoring Scotland & England share the same island that’s just bloody obvious, and as such much of our history is intertwined that’s inevitable but it doesn’t make us the same, if you believe Britain is a nation then Scotland can’t be neither can England but then most English are happy to identify as British because they see Britain as an extension if their greatness.

    121. ahundredthidiot says:

      Mhairi Hinge 11:42

      No. The new flag will be a pretty little rainbow.

      And we’ll all hold hands together and sing ‘praise be the great leader!’ every day at noon.

      It will be such happy times.

    122. Clavie Cheil says:

      ” highseastim says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:40 am

      Meanwhile back in reality, still haven’t met a single person giving their second vote to Alba.”

      ================================================

      You need to get out more Mister Cave Troll.

      On topic this time.

      I am informed that Fraud Investigations take an eternity and more often than not there is an out of Court settlement. Being cynical I can see this being dragged out for months if not longer and an out of Court settlement being announced in the small print some time next year. We have a rotten to the core Lord Advocate.

    123. With regards to the Police Investigation, the worry for me is, that with the level of corruption between Sturgeon, the SNP, Scots Government and the COPFS.

      The Police will send their investigation results to the Procurator Fiscal who will decide whether there is a case to answer, if their even is a case or whether it is in the public interest.

      We all believe there is a case and it needs answering and it most definitely is in the public interest.

      But will the PF (Wolffe) interfere?

    124. somerled says:

      TheSNPLeftMe

      ahundredthidiot

      One of you says i can’t be Scottish and British but the other says its okay for people in Northern Ireland to be Irish and British if they choose to be. Which is it?

      You are all delusional. Independence will never happen. I used to vote SNP and was Yes in 2014 but a couple of years ago, came to my senses and now vote with my head not my heart.

      You see yourselves as rebels fighting against the British state but your just sad losers (literally since 2014) sitting playing at your computers shouting “Braveheart” but would shit your pants if the British Army rightly pointed a gun in your treasonous faces. Pathetic cowards.

      Now why dont you Piss off to Ireland where you really belong.

    125. de brus says:

      Hugh Wallace says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:11 am
      Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?

      This has been my feeling on all of this all along – there is nor proof they actually raised that much – a bunch of screenshots of their website saying “Amount Raised : 590k” or whatever are literally meaningless.

      If they only raised say 10k or whatever, for example, what does that say about support for independence? Saying they raised a ton of cash looks a lot better – until you have to explain where it is of course. There is no way on earth they are suddenly going to say “erm yeah actually we lied about that.”

      The newspaper articles today seem to be a classic example of what this site generally goes after – bullsh*t msm stories that take a “story” that doesn’t actually have anything solid to back it up and turn it into a huge story because it suits their aim (sells papers and probably helps the union.)

      Given that the general narrative these days is one that is convinced the SNP leadership is completely untrustworthy, corrupt and incompetent, I’m not sure why it’s so inconceivable that they lied about the amount they raised.

    126. Breeks says:

      ”…The SNP has no knowledge of any investigation but will be more than happy to set out the facts should questions be asked of us by any appropriate authority…”

      SNP’s very own Finance and Audit Committee… “Can we have access to the Accounts?”

      “No”.

      No doubt when pressed, the SNP will eventually produce the Accounts with the numbers redacted.

    127. Doreen A Milne says:

      A

    128. robertknight says:

      Wee Willie…

      It’s more a case of Boris’ style of British Nationalism = Good, but any type of sub-British Nationalism, be that Scottish or Welsh = Bad.

      There’s nothing more hypocritical than a Brexit-supporting Brit like Boris, standing in front of a Union Flag, decrying Nationalists.

      Pot, meet kettle…

    129. jennifer Allan says:

      Gareth Rose for Scotland on Sunday:-
      Headlines
      “Cops probe claims of SNP fraud over £600,000
      Police told cash raised for new independence vote was misused
      …but party says allegation is part of ‘baseless dirty tricks campaign’”
      Sorry no link available

    130. Andy Ellis says:

      @somerled 11.55 am

      Used to vote SNP and support Yes my eye! It is to laugh.

      Some snivelling British nationalist coward hiding behind anonymity on the world’s most popular pro-indy blog tells pro-indy folk they are treasonous and should have the British army point guns in our faces before pissing off to Ireland where we belong.

      What kind of person who was ever a pro-indy voter would come out with that kind of bigotry? Bolt ya rocket!

    131. Stephen says:

      Back on topic….

      Some may worry that this fraud will be brushed under the carpet and that nothing will be done.
      It’s too late for that.
      You can be sure that everything that the Murrells thought was well hidden is in serious danger of being brought into the light.

    132. Elizabeth H says:

      How can any honest, self respecting, hard working Scottish person vote for the likes of this Scottish Government that has brought shame on our proud Nation?

    133. Captain Yossarian says:

      Andrew Neil wrote an article in the Daily Mail a few weeks ago after his brush with Lady Dorrian at the Court of Session.

      He looked at this simply and boiled it down to the very essence of the problem.

      He referred to Sturgeon’s “Storm Troops” as being those who just loudly brushed aside any criticism of Sturgeon.

      He identified that the Scottish Press were as good as dead.

      Andrew Neil identified the chief-arsehole as James Wolffe and who would argue with that.

      A few days later, James Wolffe was called in front of MSP’s by the excellent MSP for Dumbarton. He was very, very displeased at being told what to do by any MSP, let alone one from the Labour Party.

      Anyway, he didn’t sound like a “storm troop” to me. Instead he blamed his Law Officers but supported them by saying that they were always impartial and they always got things right.

      I remember he repeated AGAIN that if any of the alphabet women were identified by MSP’s then they would feel the full force of his legal storm troops. The MSP from Dumbarton didn’t looked terrified. Good for her.

      In view of the number of Mallicious Prosecutions chasing his Law Officers around, Andrew Neil thought that was quite a funny thing to say, and so do I.

      Anyway, I wonder who Nicola’s current “storm troops” are. Liz Lloyd is still one of them and we know that. But who else?

    134. mike cassidy says:

      Schroedinger’s money

      It’s there

      And it isn’t

    135. somerled says:

      Andy Ellis – I take back what i said about anti english. In your case, i dont think you are but it is true of many of your fellow separatists.

      You mention benefits – yes I am worried i would lose my disability benefits and my motability car. How will Indy Scotland pay for those when the working population shrinks due to independence and benefit claims rise and companies leave Scotland and there is little tax revenue?

      The SNP and Alba have no realistic plans for what happens if Indyref2 is successful. Its pie in the sky. If you want to convince me everyone in Scotland would be better off when out of UK and out of EU, you need to convince me on currency, economy, benefits, pensions, jobs, education, health, defence etc. There may be some ideas thrown around but every claim can be argued against. This would be much more ambitious than Brexit uncertainty. I don’t want to risk it.

      So i would say those that want independence are gamblers but those who oppose are risk averse.

    136. Alf Baird says:

      Brilliant Rev.

      The walls are crumbling.

    137. de brus says:

      If only they had said, “This money will probably be ringfenced… ” etc, because adding that one simple word, (like saying, for example, “this is probably the last time we’re going to ask you to put your hands in your pockets”,” allows you to fleece people over and over again and then do what you like with their money without the worry of any credible comeback.

      It’s these little details … but they aren’t that smart.

    138. Effigy says:

      I have no Irish connections, I’m not a Catholic, but I am totally
      against Westminster corruption and there long standing methods of intimidation.

      It could be Scotland next!

      https://republican-news.org/current/news/2021/03/victims_speak_out_over_creggan.html

    139. Littleladylotte says:

      Scottish not British. The land mass may be called great Britain, but my country is Scotland. Think Europe…Germans don’t call themselves European, they’re German.. so take yer “yer beitush” bend over and stick it. Thanks

    140. Beaker says:

      @chas says:
      4 April, 2021 at 10:26 am
      “The media and especially the ‘press’ are basically owned by Tory supporters and donors. They have enough information to really go for the SNP and reveal the corruption and downright incompetence but realise, that at this time, they do not need to as Independence is miles away despite what some may think.”

      It doesn’t matter who owns the media. If there were no allegations about how things were operating, then there would be no stories to publish.

    141. Littleladylotte says:

      And Somerleyton, if you don’t live in scotland it has less than fuck all to do with you. Take yer British hate and do fk off thanks

    142. ahundredthidiot says:

      If I was at the heart of the SNP I would be invest the remaining funds – all of it and immediately – into developing a time machine.

      Maybe they could offer Tom Gordon a free ride so he can go back and delete HIS STUPIT AS FUCK POSTS.

      (we know you’re reading Tom, you just cannae help yersel)

    143. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @highseastim –

      Huh?

      Are you wrapped in sheets, lying dormant in a cave?

      Time to wake up and roll away the stone!

    144. Anna says:

      Peter Murrel needs to go, the SNP isn’t the Murrel private company even though they seem to be running it like it is. That’s the crux of the problem. Its surprising its been allowed for so long.

    145. chas says:

      Somerled

      Why don’t you simply accept that ‘all will be fine’ with regards to an Independent Scotland’s finances? Lot’s of people do and it is heresy to think otherwise!

    146. Maureen says:

      J Park says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:21 am
      Meanwhile.

      Craig and Charlie, who have helped fund our annual rallys in Freedom Square, are calling for a second vote for the ALBA PARTY.

      Archived that for you!

      https://archive.is/DJWRI

    147. Fishy Wullie says:

      Why are you so angry somerled ? is it all that confusion swirling around in your head I wonder.

      Calling us treasonous and separatist only confirms your British and British only that’s ok you don’t have to be Scottish if you don’t want to be no one is forcing you

    148. Beaker says:

      @Clavie Cheil says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:49 am
      “I am informed that Fraud Investigations take an eternity and more often than not there is an out of Court settlement.”

      Too general a statement. It depends on the type of fraud that is alleged to have been committed. Out of court settlement depends on the circumstances and whether the complainant is prepared to accept this. Many do not.

      Some organisations will press for prosecution when it comes to fraud, especially DWP and insurance companies.

    149. somerled says:

      Chas –

      £600k has gone missing from the SNP finances.

      Millions wasted by SNP Scot Gov on failed hospitals, ferries, Bi Fab etc.

      Millions of Covid money taken by SNP Scotgov to use on election bribes

      Millions of Covid money taken from business support to give to SNP branches and other SNP supporting organisations including £250k to Tommy Sheppard

      A Finance Secretary who was texting schoolboys

      No Currency plans

      No economic plans

      If you trust the SNP/Alba people on Finance after 13 years of incompetence, corruption and failure then you should see a psychiatrist as you are not well.

    150. Red says:

      de brus – This has been my feeling on all of this all along – there is nor proof they actually raised that much – a bunch of screenshots of their website saying “Amount Raised : 590k” or whatever are literally meaningless.

      Haha, nope.

      The screenshots from the SNP fundraising website ref.scot are evidence.

      If you’re suggesting that the SNP lied, on an official SNP fundraising website which bears the legend Promoted by Peter Murrell on behalf of the Scottish National Party, that’s potentially fraud in itself (dishonest misrepresentation for financial gain).

      In any case, if the SNP hasn’t lied/committed fraud/misappropriated funds they could easily put this story to bed through the simple process of:

      * Explaining to us how much they raised and where, exactly, that money is

      Their refusal to do that, even to members of the SNP’s own financial oversight committee, may have multiple potential motivations – but few of them are legal, and none of them are good.

    151. Glen Clova says:

      The Scottish media’s priority is to prevent the supermajority that would remove the decision about indyref2 from the hands of the UK. It will only continue to support Sturgeon for as long as they believe her ‘both votes SNP’ strategy to damage Alba is working. Once Alba is heading for double figures we’ll see a change of tack from TG and his chums.

    152. Mist001 says:

      I think Alba are fucked. I’m not seeing a single thing on social media about them, no sponsored posts, nobody talking about them, nothing apart from on here. They’re trying to raise £50,000 but have only managed £13,000 from around 340 people.

      The numbers aren’t there because they’re not getting their name and message in front of people and that’s why they’re fucked. I said when they were first announced that they should have got the Rev in to manage their media. I don’t think they have because I would expect them to have a much higher profile if he was running it.

      Shame, because the plan was good.

    153. Tam Fae somewhere says:

      I suspect the SNP will be bankrupt before any investigation into the 600k completes.

    154. Lost says:

      1. A man believes a crime has taken place and reports it to the police. Herald journalists publicly humiliate the man by posting his identity on social media.

      2. The Referendum Appeal Fund is not visible in the SNP accounts. A simple red circle on the page of where the money is, showing people it here would suffice. But of course the SNP can’t be clear and do anything simple. Answer the questions.

      The fact that the figures can’t be seen clearly probably means there’s been a lot of jiggery-pokery going on. I wouldn’t put it past the SNP to release the accounts in full and the pages to be redacted.

      Black markers must be running dry by now.

    155. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Kiwilassie

      “I have lived in New Zealand for over 50 years. Came here in my twenties. I’m 100% Scot & will be to the day I die.
      However I respect my new country & would never do anything to undermine it.
      ….. me in my heart I’m still a Scot.

      You can take the Scot out of Scotland , but you can’t take Scotland out of the Scot.”
      —————————

      That’s me as well. I’m only a 1000 miles away but Scotland came with me and I try to be as good an Ambassador for Scotland as I can.

    156. keviano says:

      Wings again has laid the trap for the Unionist media.
      Always hungry for an anti-SNP headline, they hoist themselves up to charges of bias and more importantly create an electoral appetite for the real news story around claims of massive corruption by the UK Tory Government (and Tory Party).
      I’ve no doubt the SNP will illuminate on the “alleged” missing fund – and at least will be bound and re-focussed on how that is to be used.

      What needs to be carefully considered, is SNP supporters belief that ‘their Party’ is under sustained attack.

      Human nature makes them far less likely to “lend” their support elsewhere when that perception becomes real.

    157. Ian Mac says:

      Given the ludicrous joint wages of the King and Queen of Scotland, there should be no difficulty in them reimbursing the party for the funds they have squandered. Or else they can agree a £100k a year until it is paid off. What on earth do they spend their huge salaries on? A modest hoose in Glasgow? Offshore accounts?

    158. auld highlander says:

      The interfering hand of the union is at work with their ‘Dark Money’.

      Interfering where they don’t belong.

      https://theferret.scot/the-dark-money-behind-anti-snp-facebook-campaigns/

    159. Andy Ellis says:

      @somerled 12.09 & 12.21 pm

      You are patently a nasty piece of work. Whether you’re just trolling and hoping for a negative reaction to hold up as vile cybernat abuse later, or you’re just doing it for the LOLZ I don’t know.

      The fact you lack the moral courage to post under your own name and the content tells us everything we need to know about you and your motivations. I highly doubt you were ever a supporter of indy, but since you remain a snivelling anonymous coward we’ll never know will we?

      Being concerned for your own benefits and car may be understandable on one level, but really it’s hard to see how someone who purports to have supported independence in 2014 has seen what has happened since and thought: “Yeah, these unionists are a far better bet: better the certainties of post brexit global UK out of the EU than the risks of an independent Scotland inside the EU”.

      You’re just another in the parade of non-too-convincing British nationalist sock puppet accounts that have been popping up on here lately insisting they’re either “persuadable No voters” or “disappointed former Yes voters”: are you hell as like!

      You insist on the Yes side giving chapter and verse on how things would work, a guarantee you’d be personally better off, and that every i would be dotted and every t crossed. It’s as transparent as it is desperate.

    160. Ian Mac says:

      You will notice that in this instance the complainer is outed and roundly mocked as eccentric and unbelievable.

      Whereas other complainers, let me see – there was a recent example – are treated as the anguished victims of a terrible crime and so must remain anonymous. Every word they say is gospel truth and even after a court case which disproved their allegations, they are to be elevated to the status of sainthood, and given further opportunities to publicise the awful things which didn’t happen to them and the terrible hurt and shame. And no way are they eccentric people who should be outed in the press as unbelievable people with an axe to grind. No, never.

    161. robertknight says:

      Somerled…

      If I wanted to read your push, I’d consult the Tory campaign leaflet I put in the recycling.

      Why not go somewhere your contributions are actually welcome.

      Yours

      RK (former Crab)

    162. de brus says:

      tartanfever says:

      Hugh Wallace @ 11.11

      ‘Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?’

      Because it has to be accounted for in your tax returns/financial statement. Claiming publicly that you raised £600k for it not to appear in you annual financial return to HMRC and the Electoral Commission would be one of the stupidest moves of all time.

      It’s entirely the point of this whole investigation.

      Simply put, it’s called fraud.

      ___________________________________

      Claiming to have money when you don’t isn’t fraud.

      No one is taxed for writing “I have half a million quid!” on a website. They are taxed on actual income, money coming into their accounts for example.

      What is being questioned by Hugh Wallace here is whether or not the money on discussion was even raised in the first place.

    163. Angry Weegie says:

      There can be no doubt that the money has been spent. There is no £600k in the accounts.

      In fact, though the accounts show there is just under £97k cash, they also show current liabilities exceed current assets by almost £128k, so they have no money at all to spend on campaigning, unless they get it from the bank or from payday lenders.

    164. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Mist 001 13.34 pm

      Shut up ya zooner.You know fuck all yoon in France.
      You cannae vote here! You got that yet?

    165. Fishy Wullie says:

      Ian Mac says:
      4 April, 2021 at 12:42 pm

      You will notice that in this instance the complainer is outed and roundly mocked as eccentric and unbelievable.

      Whereas other complainers, let me see – there was a recent example – are treated as the anguished victims of a terrible crime and so must remain anonymous. Every word they say is gospel truth and even after a court case which disproved their allegations, they are to be elevated to the status of sainthood, and given further opportunities to publicise the awful things which didn’t happen to them and the terrible hurt and shame. And no way are they eccentric people who should be outed in the press as unbelievable people with an axe to grind. No, never.

      —————————————————————–

      The thing is Ian what these woman don’t seem to realise ( maybe they do now) is that Sturgeon has screwed them played as pawns because although they may be anonymous to most of us they’re not anonymous to the people that matter, my guess is if any of these women had any thoughts of a career at the highest levels in politics they can forget it now they’re toxic

    166. Tom says:

      You don’t need to be religious (I’m not) to be moved by this tweet from Kevin McKenna ..

      “He is risen.

      A Happy Easter to everyone.”

    167. Clavie Cheil says:

      Beaker says:
      4 April, 2021 at 12:23 pm

      @Clavie Cheil says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:49 am
      “I am informed that Fraud Investigations take an eternity and more often than not there is an out of Court settlement.”

      Too general a statement. It depends on the type of fraud that is alleged to have been committed. Out of court settlement depends on the circumstances and whether the complainant is prepared to accept this. Many do not.

      Some organisations will press for prosecution when it comes to fraud, especially DWP and insurance companies.

      ====================================================

      I also said we have a rotten to the core Lord Advocate and in light of that fact expect no charges to be brought let alone any Court appearances.

    168. Ian Mac says:

      Fishy Wullie:
      “my guess is if any of these women had any thoughts of a career at the highest levels in politics they can forget it now they’re toxic”

      Ahem, some of them already do…so I am told

    169. Red says:

      Claiming to have money when you don’t isn’t fraud.

      Wrong. If you lie in order to encourage people to give you money who otherwise might not, it is fraud. Has been for centuries.

      An obvious purpose of falsely inflating the donations figure would be to encourage more people to donate. So you’re literally accusing Peter Murrell of fraud.

      In other words, where someone is caused to do something they would not otherwise have done by use of deception.

    170. de brus says:

      Red says:
      4 April, 2021 at 12:32 pm
      de brus – This has been my feeling on all of this all along – there is nor proof they actually raised that much – a bunch of screenshots of their website saying “Amount Raised : 590k” or whatever are literally meaningless.

      Haha, nope.

      The screenshots from the SNP fundraising website ref.scot are evidence.

      If you’re suggesting that the SNP lied, on an official SNP fundraising website which bears the legend Promoted by Peter Murrell on behalf of the Scottish National Party, that’s potentially fraud in itself (dishonest misrepresentation for financial gain).

      In any case, if the SNP hasn’t lied/committed fraud/misappropriated funds they could easily put this story to bed through the simple process of:

      * Explaining to us how much they raised and where, exactly, that money is

      Their refusal to do that, even to members of the SNP’s own financial oversight committee, may have multiple potential motivations – but few of them are legal, and none of them are good.

      Hi Red,

      Screenshots from their site are evidence that they claimed to raise 600k (approx) but not evidence that they actually did.

      Also, I don’t think they can easily put this story to bed. They either raised the money then spent it, or they didn’t raise money and lied about that. They’d be utterly f**cked if they admitted either of these things.

    171. Fishy Wullie says:

      Ian Mac says:
      4 April, 2021 at 12:59 pm

      Ahem, some of them already do…so I am told

      —————————————————————-

      No doubt but this particular criminal cartel we call the Scottish Government won’t always be there to protect them

    172. Stephen says:

      The SNP’s accounts are filed on the electoral commission’s website.
      If these filings are found to be false then that is fraud as well.

    173. JSC says:

      In addition to Stu/Craig etc, Who would have thought a year ago that we could maybe be saved from the SNP shitshow by the combined efforts of:

      Alex Salmond
      David Davis
      Andrew Neil
      George Galloway
      Sean Clerkin
      Kenny Macaskill

      It’s like the Dirty Half Dozen

    174. Andy says:

      You need to cut the lying, corrupt, thieving Murrell’s some slack here.

      Do you know how much it costs to keep our top Law Officers going in back handers?

      Scotland doesn’t have a Police Force anymore, it has a Militia.

    175. StuartM says:

      Reposting this from the yesterday’s thread:

      If the SNP somehow manage to win a majority either on their own or with Green support then that’s going to be a disaster for Scotland and Alba can be ignored by Sturgeon. A far better result would be for the Greens to be eliminated, the SNP to fall short and have to form a coalition with Alba to govern. The price of coalition might well be Sturgeon’s resignation as FM. To that end the elimination of the worst of the Sturgeon cabal would help Alba not hinder it.

      For example, if Sarwar were to unseat Salmond in the constituency seat and that left Labour with just 1 constituency seat in that region, the divisor for Labour List votes for the first List seat would be 1+1=2 ie HALVED, thus increasing the chances of Alba winning their first List seat. and increasing their chances of winning seats in the subsequent rounds.

      Now Sturgeon might get back via a List seat but maybe not if Roza Salih refuses to budge. That would be delicious irony, Sturgeon hoist by her own Woke petard! Even if NS does get back on the List her credibility will be shot – if she’s not popular enough to win her own seat what does that say about her electoral appeal more generally? Same goes for Swinney, Robertson, Humza etc.

      I understand why Alex is pushing SNP 1, Alba 2 publicly, you have to keep the message simple. However, I’d argue for urging everyone you know to vote tactically for whichever candidate has the best chance of defeating Sturgeon, Robertson, Swinney and Humza in the constituency seats. I also believe Alba should launch a full-on assault on the Greens highlighting their support for GRA and lack of any commitment to Independence.

    176. de brus says:

      Red says:

      An obvious purpose of falsely inflating the donations figure would be to encourage more people to donate. So you’re literally accusing Peter Murrell of fraud.

      Hi Red

      No, what was being suggested was they inflated the figure because only raising a relatively small amount did not look good. And when no more money came in they pulled the fundraiser entirely.

    177. Karen says:

      Old Scots law was Proven or Not Proven. Guilty and Not Guilty are the interlopers. We should go back to Proven and Not Proven.

    178. Willie says:

      That’s it, redact the £600,000, say it never existed. And if anyone tries to say that it did have them charged with contempt of court.

      Problem sorted. Simples.

    179. Andy says:

      Tom Gordon is officially a Wanker.

      For the sake of all of us, he should be barred from approaching a keyboard ever again.

      He still hasn’t come to grips with this thinking before you type thing.

    180. chas says:

      Somerled

      I was being sarcastic

    181. Alf Baird says:

      maureen @ 12:43 pm

      “Alba on course for 6%”

      Actually, growth of 3% a week means ALBA is probably on course for 20+ seats.

      #Supermajority at this ‘independence’ election means, as Alex says, we start negotiating for independence. Everybody who wants independence should vote ALBA on the list.

    182. Mist001 says:

      And Ayrshire Rob singlehandedly advances the cause of independence with his erudite and incisive comments.

      What a fucking shower. A lot of you don’t fucking deserve independence, you deserve a spell in the fucking madhouse.

      Whenever anybody asks me for examples of delusion, I immediately direct them to this website.

      The ignorance is staggering.

    183. Captain Yossarian says:

      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-650m-contract-tycoon-snp-23849401

      More unrecorded and unminuted meetings. Sturgeon and Swinney again.

    184. Andy says:

      Anyone,,,”Still Sturgeon”?

    185. A Person says:

      -Mist001 at 12.33-

      There was a story about them on the front of most of the papers in my local petrol station this morning, it has been a lead story on BBC News (!) multiple times, and I’ve certainly seen a few things on social media.

      Not trying to indulge in wishful thinking, I think these are all proof of visibility.

    186. Willie says:

      Oh and the story about the property developer who gave a £100,000 donation, subsequently had unrecorded meetings with Nicola Sturgeon, before thereafter having planning decisions reversed in his favour by the Scottish government, and then onto £650 million of housing, nothing for a Sturgeon to answer here.

      One the secret meetings with the developer were private meetings. Nothing to do with the Government. Two the government reversal of planning refusals was nothing to do with Sturgeon, and in any event were absolutely nothing to do with her. The donors building of 3,000 homes is nothing to do with rage donors donation of £100k to the SNP. Again for the avoidance of doubt Nicola probably knew nothing whatsoever about the donation and if she did she would have forgotten about it.

      There nothing to answer. All in order.

    187. AwakeNotWoke says:

      Anyone who isn’t asking why the Yoon press/media are charging into the fray to defend the SNP has had lobotomy & has gone beyond the event horizon of credulity.

    188. Anna says:

      The complainers were coaxed, cajouled , exploited , then abandoned by the real criminals.

      NS is revealing her true self every day. She said “ it was a relief “ when Alex Salmond was found not guilty. Now she reveals she still has a festering thorn in her flesh. One ‘not proven’ verdict!!!! .
      .

    189. Yasmin says:

      According to sky news today sturgeon and her outfit rape crisis now want to change legal system to remove ‘not proven’ verdicts. I wonder why and who this is directed at? Doesn’t she know that in Salmond’s case if not proven didn’t exist then that one verdict would have resulted in not guilty too. She really must be desperate. Here’s hoping that her days are numbered. She’s unfit to lead the Scottish people. Perhaps she can go home to her English granny.

    190. Robert Dickson says:

      Mist001……a classic troll
      Arrogant, self-aggrandising and aggressive.

    191. Saffron Robe says:

      First class article Stuart.

      It is not the character of the complainant that is in question, but whether fraud has been committed by the Murrells. And the evidence is incontrovertible. Their refusal to let anyone see the books tells you everything you need to know.

      The police have the powers to demand access to the books and then their culpability will be revealed. Caught with their hand in the till!

    192. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Aye

      Whatever Mist001 ya clown.I can spot a zoomer when I see wan.

      You told us feck all. Yer a zoomer . I said give him a week and he’ll be on here slagging Alba Party. There ye go.
      Now piss off.

    193. macnakamura says:

      100%Yes says:
      4 April, 2021 at 10:42 am
      If the Alba party is polling at 6% does this mean they will be included in Tv debates.

      ==========

      They may not be present but the debating will include them, I suspect.

    194. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Willie – Sir Angus Grossart is a well connected chap. Fingers in all the pies. He set up the Scottish Government’s secretive Scottish Futures Trust which uses Billions in PFI money to build our hospitals and schools.

      Somehow, they don’t call it borrowing any longer. When it was PFI it was called borrowing but now they call it something different.

      As before, the quality (think Edinburgh Sick Kids and Queen Elizabeth Universiry Hospitals) is crap. Not always crap….just sometimes crap. It was called crap when it was PFI. Now they call it something different.

    195. Andy says:

      I wonder if Pete Wishart watched Runrigs final performance concert on the “ALBA” channel last night?

    196. Andy says:

      AYRSHIRE ROB/robbo

      The only “Zoomer” around at the moment on Wings is you.

      What a fuckin pest.

    197. Patrick Roden says:

      tartanfever said:

      ‘To ring-fence, a grant or fund means to put restrictions on it, so that it can only be used for a particular purpose.’

      This is very important because it means that ‘ring-fenced must be a legal term in financial law, so you can’t just call something ringfenced and then change it to ‘start-up funds as the SNP spokeswoman attempted to when she said the money was partly used to set up an ‘independence unit’

      It looks like the Murrels have had their fingers in the cookie jar!

    198. David R says:

      If/when the Alba party support starts to rise above the Greens and LD then the press will have to start to go after the SNP. They’ll hope to hit support from yes in the constituency vote with a negative impact on Alba in the list. Any SNP seats they lose in the constituency will be picked up in the list and the game keeps on.

    199. Red says:

      De brus – No, what was being suggested was they inflated the figure because only raising a relatively small amount did not look good. And when no more money came in they pulled the fundraiser entirely.

      It’s an interesting defence, but it would only take a £1 donation between Peter Murrell (allegedly) falsifying the figures and the fundraiser being closed to make this… fraud.

      I don’t think they suddenly bumped the figure up to £482K and then immediately closed it either, seems unlikely that would’ve gone unnoticed.

      In any event, this is why the SNP’s absolute refusal to clear up the matter requires a criminal investigation. Because on the face of it, the most likely explanations for the missing money are some variant of… fraud. Best possible case scenario seems to be that Peter Murrell is just a bald-faced liar who is abusing his position as CEO of the SNP to prevent proper corporate governance.

      Either way, there’s no good outcome to this for the SNP unless Tom Gordon gets his wish and people just forget the whole thing.

    200. somerled says:

      Andy Ellis – Are you saying people can’t change their minds?

      FWIW i am anonymous because 2 years ago one of your vicious Indy pals, an ex junkie from the Borders threatened to come to Fife after we disagreed on Twitter. I had to call the Police as he also doxxed my address and home business. At the time I was an Indy voter and as a stroke survivor gave up work. I joined twitter and started following Wings because of the Defamation case and contributed to it. I know many SNP voterswho are decent but its the minority in my opinion.

      Reading Wings convinced me most Indy supporters are delusional. Yes, i was probably a soft Yes supporter as I hadnt given it a lot if thought. Believed in Alex Salmond & thought SNP were good for Scotland. Didn’t realise Alex was often drunk and chasing skirt.

      Then i read about SNP and GRA reform. I started to think what the SNP had done for Scotland and it wasnt much at all. They all seem to be lining their pockets and obsessed with LGBT. I never hated GB or Union Jack or Westminster. It was always about what i believe is best for Scotland.

      I accept others think differently but as i say if i am to retutn to voting Yes i want to see answers to all the important questions. Not blind faith that so many Indy voters have and why there is an obvious parallell with trans activists who are also delusional ignore facts.

      So yes, i get angry if i’m told i cant call myself Scottish and British when others here say its okay to be Scottish and European or Irish and British. There is no consistency. All of the Indy supporters spend most of their time fighting with each other as well as being nasty to others who dont share their fantasy.

      I suspect if your name really is Andy Ellis then you are one of the bullies rather than one of the bullied. Do you also tell feminists to stop being anonymous when teans activists are attacking them?

      I certainly dont think Westminster, Union or Tories are perfect but they are doing more for Women’s rights than those Indy people supporting Alex Salmond. I believe for the time being we are better off together in the UK. I don’t expect to change peoples minds as most are too fanatical in the Sturgeon Cult or the Salmond Cult.

      At the moment the most important thing is Women’s Rights NOT Independence. If you believe otherwise and care more for Indy then you are a misogynist or not a real feminist/ally in my opinion.

    201. Patrick Roden says:


      That flag is disgusting. It’s got to be a joke. If not the SNP are in La La land. It’s truly horrendous.

      APRIL FOOOOL!!!

    202. Thomas says:

      @ somerled.

      You sound like yet another labour party troll on this site .Usual empty rhetoric about divisive nationalism , snp corruption blah blah blah.

      What about your beloved labour party then somerled?

      Up to their old tricks in liverpool , and bankrupted croydon council in london?

      “Labour-run Croydon council declares bankruptcy due to rampant property speculation”

      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/11/27/croy-n27.html

      “Liverpool council may have squandered up to £100m of public money

      Sources say authority at centre of corruption allegations lost millions through questionable transactions”

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/25/liverpool-council-may-have-squandered-up-to-100m-public-money

      “Liverpool council corruption scandal threatens Labour power in the city

      Analysis: Political fallout could cost Labour the city’s mayoralty and votes in May’s local elections”

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/28/liverpool-council-corruption-scandal-threatens-labour-power-in-the-city

      same shit different day , two different cities . Takes us all back to the bad old days when labour ruled their glasgow fiefdom with arrogance and impunity.

    203. Saffron Robe says:

      Karen says:

      “Old Scots law was Proven or Not Proven. Guilty and Not Guilty are the interlopers. We should go back to Proven and Not Proven.”

      I totally agree Karen. We should return to the two verdicts of Proven and Not Proven as these are scientifically correct. A person may be morally guilty but not criminally guilty and the Guilty and Not Guilty verdicts can fail to distinguish between the two. They are psychologically ambiguous and therefore open to exploitation. For instance, exploiting someone’s character as “bad” and therefore implying that, because of this, they must be guilty.

    204. shug says:

      Nicola will be stopping not proven and not guilty soon

      Clearly any accused is guilty

    205. shug says:

      oops unless it relates to money missing from indyref2

    206. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/albaparty/backers#start

      Do we have a glitch in the fundraiser. I find it strange that it hasen’t moved for a while?

    207. somerled says:

      Chas ?

    208. Thomas says:

      Labour on the retreat in wales as well…

      “Wales could be on course for the closest devolved election in history – and possibly the worst ever result for the Labour party, an exclusive poll for ITV Wales has shown. ”

      https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-03-22/wales-on-course-for-closest-devolved-election-in-history-latest-poll-shows

      You just dont get it somerled , the voting public have had enough of you labour party champagne socialists , with your lectures about divisive nationalism while screaming constant empty rhetoric about the poor and nhs.

      Only a party as daft as labour would have a knight of the realm as their leader while describing themselves as “champagne socialists.”

    209. Schwarzenberg geplatzt says:

      Wish I had a fiver for every time Nicola waves it off as a conspiracy theory

    210. Clavie Cheil says:

      Somerled.

      Have you no figured out yet that British is synonymous with English in the rest of the world. If you are British then the Rest of the Planet considers you English whether you like it or not. Noo awa and bile yer heid troll.

    211. sarah says:

      @ Anna at 12.18: “Peter Murrell needs to go…It’s surprising it has been allowed to go on for so long.”

      Exactly. I too have wondered about this – how come at least +the 15 MSPs who are retiring haven’t told some hard truths to the leader?

      It isn’t only the fact that there have been dodgy shenanigans [to put it mildly] but also the sheer incompetence and insanity of the policies adopted, the failure to consider anything but a s30-aided referendum, the constant postponement of action for independence, and the removal of democracy inside the party. Any of those things should have sounded alarm bells.

      Judging by the reaction I have experienced, I think the motivation has been “wheesht for indy” in the belief that the leader’s popularity is key to success. Sigh.

    212. President Xiden says:

      I’m sure the money is just ‘resting’ in someone’s account.

    213. Don says:

      @Littleladylotte 4 April, 2021 at 12:14 pm

      “Scottish not British. The land mass may be called great Britain, but my country is Scotland. Think Europe…Germans don’t call themselves European, they’re German.. so take yer “yer beitush” bend over and stick it. Thanks”

      Get your point but the difference is Europe is a Continent but Britain is an Island or collection of Islands to be more precise.

    214. tartanfever says:

      de brus:

      to compare a private individual claiming to have an extra £600k to a registered political party publicly fundraising and claiming to have raised this money are not the same thing.

      I’m sure you know this, but thought I’d point it out.

      Fundraising under false pretenses that monies are ‘ring fenced’ and then are used for general spending is a fraud.

      If the SNP claim to have raised a certain amount of money and then can’t show it in their accounts, then the Electoral Commission as well as HMRC will want to know where it is. As I posted earlier in the thread, this is from the Electoral Commissions guide on setting up a Political Party:

      ‘Under PPERA, registered political parties must comply with rules on donations and spending and reporting requirements.

      These rules include continuous donation and loan controls, spending controls during regulated elections, annual accounts reporting and annual registration renewal.

      These rules are to ensure the integrity and transparency of party political finance. If you don’t follow them, you may be subject to fines or other enforcement action.

      In some cases, this can include a referral for criminal prosecution.’

    215. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      Andy @ 1:36pm

      I watched the Runrig final concert on ALBA last night. An outstanding show and well worth watching.
      In my view the final group line up was the best ever.

      A special mention to the lead guitarist. He was on par with the best in the World.
      If you haven’t seen it – well worth a catch up.

    216. Willie says:

      Captain Yossarian @ 1.36.

      You got it in one when you describe the Scottish Futures Trust as just being PFI by another name because that is exactly what it is.

      Design, build, own and operate all funded by private finance with 5he asset thereafter rented back to the state.Schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, sewage treatment plants, there’s nothing that cannot be privatised.

      Some years back I recall seeing an info graphic depicting an oil tanker with the accommodation block above the water at the stern representing the build cost, the absolutely enormous forward section of the tanker representing the future finance which is many many times the capital cost.

      And so it has come to pass, the socially wonderfully named Scottish Futures Trust is but a creative name to mask expensive private borrowing. And all the while the hapless taxpayer has to pay ever increasing expensive private finance for what many would describe as very poor quality assets.

      New Labour, New SNP under Sturgeon and Swinney. Same cheeks of the same arse.

    217. Terry says:

      When you’re a liar, every truth is a conspiracy

    218. robertknight says:

      Somerled…

      “but as i say if i am to retutn to voting Yes i want to see answers to all the important questions.”

      Then join a party and start helping to frame the answers to your “important questions”.

      Biggest problem this country has are those who sit back and expect everyone else to do all the legwork and come up with all the answers.

      Personally, I don’t trust ANY politicians to determine my fate – which is why I get involved and seek to influence those who seek positions in life which will determine what I can and can’t do.

      Don’t sit back and hope someone will tell you everything you want to hear so you can sleep at night. You want that, then I suggest you go to church!

      Otherwise, step up and get involved and shape the answers to the questions that matter to you!

    219. TheItalianJob says:

      Supported Labour all my life and laterally a member until 2014 Indy campaign when their true British Establishment support anti Scottish colours were raised on their flag.

      Never will be trusted again as a true party of the working class. Not when they sit in the “scroungers” unelected House of Lords only second in size to the unelected Chinese Politburo.

      And we are told we have a democracy in the U.K.

      Don’t make me laugh.

    220. Cudneycareless says:

      First Nicola wants to remove “not proven” then she will want to back date it especially for former first ministers.

      and she claim that it is down to her legal background that she has come round to this view.

      If she is still in the government -We’re Doomed.

    221. somerled says:

      Thomas – You are wrong on so many levels

      I have never voted for Labour but I did want Tony Blair as PM although in hindsight was a mistake. I have always lived in NE Fife which was Conservative when i was young then Liberal Democrat with Ming Campbell then Stephen Gethins SNP which i voted for at the time but not in 2019.

      How many Indy supporters will actually admit voting SNP was a mistake ?

    222. Mark Boyle says:

      J Park says: 4 April, 2021 at 11:21 am

      “Craig and Charlie, who have helped fund our annual rallys in Freedom Square, are calling for a second vote for the ALBA PARTY.”

      Has to be said that news that the Proclaimers – whose songs (especially “Cap In Hand”) have been used in many past SNP broadcasts – are saying “vote Alba” is almost as big a disaster for Sturgeon as the majority of the press (bar the Rangers Herald as ever) finally catching up with WoS over the SNP’s big old funny money problem.

      Also, as well as the Alba party on 6%, the alarming news that a certain anti-Semite’s latest flag of convenience is sitting on 4% will concentrate even the most hidebound SNPbot’s mind into doing the right thing according to Angus MacNeil’s “using logic and sense” criteria instead of flinging it away on their “brand name” with fk all chance of picking up anything on the lists.

      Incidentally, as a fine example of Newsquest’s fuckwit approach to keeping their readers (and that the David Leask affair a few years ago was no “oversight”, I’m sure the residents of Bridport and Lyme Regis will be rivetted to learn this latest twist in the Scottish election campaign.

      https://www.bridportnews.co.uk/news/national/19209431.proclaimers-back-alba-party-list-vote/

      If Rodney Legg were still alive he’d have facepalmed.

    223. Natal XX and proud says:

      Stu
      Somerled’s post at 12.21 is highly offensive (and I am not easily offended). Please will you consider a deletion. Thanks

    224. Stephen says:

      @Thomas
      The trouble with the SNP is all the crazy policies you have to sign up to if you vote for them.
      To these have now been added corruption at the top.
      There probably is a majority for independence in Scotland but many won’t vote for the SNP because they can’t stomach their “woke” policies.
      Scotland has changed so much.
      When I was growing up a “tranny” was a radio.

    225. Andy Ellis says:

      @somerled 1.48 pm

      No, I accept people can change their minds. To move from 28% in the polls in 2012 to 45% by 2014 many Scots obviously changed their minds about independence. For many years I’d probably have settled for some kind of devo-max and thought it would be the best we could realistically hope for: it took me quite a while to realise we can and should do better, but also (perhaps more importantly) to realise the English by and large want different things and have zero interest in devolution or a federal solution for the UK: they rather LIKE the current set up where they get what they want 100% of the time, and the Celtic fringes get what they want when we agree with them.

      Perhaps what you say about your background is true, perhaps it isn’t. We have no way of knowing because you’re anonymous. you may be on the level and you may not. Who knows? Nobody condones abuse or doxxing, but even if your story is true however awful your experience is it tells us precisely nothing about “all” independence supporters, all SNP voters/members or all Wings Over Scotland supporters. Trying to paint all of those with one brush because of your individual experience is deeply disingenuous. Let’s remember that a few posts ago, you casually accused me of hating the English. Sorry, but you’re very much part of the problem, not part of the solution from what I can see.

      I won’t be lectured by someone with your record on here about whether I’m a bully, or whether I support women’s rights. I’m not the snivelling anonymous coward here am I “somerled”? I’ve always posted under my own name. Perhaps if more people did so our public discourse wouldn’t be where it is now? I very publicly left the SNP in support of @grousebeater when he was subject to an SNP kangaroo court, and I’ve consistently supported women’s rights and opposed the TRA agenda. Like Rev. Stu I lost my twitter account because of it. The twitter account was also in my own name.

      I’ve never met any true Scots nationalist that had any time for the union jack, or Westminster or the GB as a concept. With friends like you, we have no need of enemies: we have those aplenty already. The support of faint-hearts like you won’t be missed.

    226. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      House of Lords – that bastion of democracy
      263 Conservarives
      178 Labour
      86 LibDems
      PC / 2 Greens / DUP / Ulster Unionists
      26 Bishops
      Hundreds of pretend Independents
      AND Hereditary peers still sit there with 500 more waiting to step in if one should die.

      You pay for this
      Greens and PC jumped on the wagon
      Why are Bishops in the HofLs

      I wish I hadn’t looked.

    227. Republicofscotland says:

      I’d imagine with some of the press carrying the story that Police Scotland has spoken to the FM and Peter Murrell, where it goes from there I’m not sure, but the money is definitely missing, so Police Scotland should be investigating it regardless of who reported it to them.

      Of course Stephen Gethins has been in the press recently reassuring us that he’s working hard on the indyfront, the next lie thrown at us will be that Mr Gethins has done £600,000 quids worth of work on independence and that’s where the money was spent.

    228. David Hannah says:

      Willie says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:28 am

      “The Saintly Nicola Sturgeon is being exposed for exactly what she is. A front, a sham, a charlatan and someone whose behaviours are absolutely foul. This missing money is just another example of her absolutely malign leadership”.

      Well put Willie. I think the readers of Wings over Scotland, need a reminder of Stuart Campbells article on The White Paper – Freedom of Information requests.

      The Scottish Government have not updated the White Paper since 2014. The Civil Service employs thousands. This FOI states only 7 were tasked with this update, part time, before being redeployed elsewhere during the Pandemic. THE FOI – freedom of information request here: – https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000096466/

      On 31 January 2020, the First Minister announced that the Scottish Government would publish a series of ‘New Scotland’ papers

      On 18 March 2020, the Scottish Government announced it was pausing work to prepare for an independence referendum this year to focus on the response to the Covid-19 pandemic. This included the ‘New Scotland’ papers and the staff concerned were redeployed to other work. You can read about this admission, here:- https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000096466/

      Remind Nicola Sturgeon. She’s not stopped Brexit, Her party has in fact facilitated a Boris Johnson deal. And that that she and her government have renegued on the “will of the people”.

      These freedom of Information requests, highlight the total absence of planning Independence. Thank you to Stuart Campbell for revealing the illusion of democracy at the heart of Scottish Politics. Because that’s what the SNP are asking us to vote for. The expiration of perfectly valid mandates for Independence. The Self Preservation Society.

    229. Daisy Walker says:

      5 Nights of riots in Northern Ireland. Trying to work out whats going on there…

      ‘The scenes come amid tensions within loyalism across Northern Ireland.

      Loyalists and unionists are angry about post-Brexit trading arrangements which they claim have created barriers between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

      In Co Antrim, a recent series of drug seizures against the South East Antrim UDA – a renegade faction of the main grouping – have caused particular ill-feeling towards police. The faction is believed to have been behind the disturbances in Newtownabbey on Saturday.

      Tensions ramped up further this week following a controversial decision not to prosecute 24 Sinn Fein politicians for attending a large-scale republican funeral during Covid-19 restrictions.

      All the main unionist parties have demanded the resignation of PSNI Chief Constable Simon Byrne, claiming he has lost the confidence of their community’.

      So, Police do their job and do a drugs bust, and the Loyalists use it as an excuse to riot. Sounds like CC Simon Byrne is actually doing a good job.

      I wonder what else is behind this? Not enough soldiers left in the British Army to re-occupy NI, and even they know it. So what’s afoot? Create enough unrest, so as to threaten enough Protestants not to vote for Reunification? Seems likely, and also unlikely to work if your job, your neighbours job and wholescale peace is at stake.

    230. somerled says:

      Robert Knight – that is a fair point but I don’t have the time to spend on it unfortunately. My disability only gives me a couple of hours a day when i can work or study or use a computer.

      I expect the SNP or any indy group to provide a detailed plan and budget for an independent scotland. Brexit showed that a lot of negotiations are required and many variables and i think Scexit will be harder than brexit. There are lies and exaggerations on both sides but both sides still need to lay out their plans.

      I do agree with you that i don’t trust any politician. That includes Alex Salmond who i suspect would throw women under a bus if Nicola offered him a deal on Indy for exchange in support of Trans GRA reform from Alba.

    231. Daisy Walker says:

      Re Nicla’s latest message – removing ‘not proven’ from the Scottish legal system.

      We are in election mode, anything any of them says, is said for a reason and to a target audience.

      So to whom is she sending the ‘remove not proven verdicts’ out to. Who is it targetted towards.

      No voters? As much as most of them might like it (along with bring back hanging) it will not make them vote for her.

      Yes voters? Alba Voters – have already come to their own conclusions about Alex – so it won’t change their vote.

      YeSNP Voters? – aghh yes, could well be, if they don’t think its quite fair, and in and of itself it kind of smears Alex, it will have a drip, drip, negative affect – just enough to discourage them from turning out to vote for anyone.

      Play the game folks, its fun – every time Nicla says something this week, ask yourself 2 questions – 1/ how does it make you feel? Gut instinct? and who is the target audience?

      SNP Constituency Candidates – you are really, really going to need the Alba campaigners to help get you elected. Niclas doing your legs.

    232. Stuart says:

      Some quite extraordinary comments on here , and belive me I’m no snowflake! According some of the more excitable posters, apparently I’m not a “true Scot”, because my parents (who assuminly Weren’t true scots either) took me and my siblings to the heart of the “evil empire” in England almost entirely because the Roots factory was about to close and rather than sit on his arse and collect benefits (which he never did in his life) he wanted to you know those usual things like looking after his family and providing for them through his own hard work! The cheek of the man!!

      I’ve seen so much quality investigative journalism on here by the host whatever your preference on Independance (and was and aware the host is 100% yes) but all this bollix about ” MI5, Unionist conspiracies etc” about probably the most successful Union the worlds seen, which actually disproportionately is Scotlands success in all fields legal, financial , medical, technology, industrial etc.

      Am I not allowed to be proud of Scotlands heritage and peoples because in your eyes I won’t close my eyes to the endemic corruption in your ranks and have my doubts this would translate to well to an Independent state.

      It seems to me you are falling for the fallacy that if you insult people enough and call them enough names they’ll vote for what you want. Look at Brexit or even Trump and see where this leads.

      I think what you fail to understand very few things in life and particularly politics in binary, things are much more nuanced than posters on the Internet would have you believe.

      I am unashamedly Scottish (and have lived and worked all around the world), but for me and lots of others I’m British not because it somehow dilutes my “Scottishness “, the polar opposite in fact because as it stands Scotland is part of the UK, not separate. Not sure how I’d feel to be honest if Scotland decided to leave the Union it certainly would feel for me less likely to say I was British and I couldn’t say I’m English because thats not true.

      I think from memory around 2 million people voted “No” in 2014, does anyone think that the way to convince them to vote “Yes” is to either hold up the SNP as an example of good governance or insult them that their not “true Scots”????

      Prepared for incoming lol

    233. robertknight says:

      Somerled…

      “My disability only gives me a couple of hours a day when i can work or study or use a computer.”

      A couple of hours is all it takes. Good luck with your disability, I hope you don’t have a huge reduction in your quality of life – but people who suffer from physical and/or mental hardship are especially in need of a voice and what better person to speak and to lobby on their behalf than people like you.

      If you’ve time to come to this echo chamber to lock horns/make your point – might I suggest there are more worthwhile venues (no offense Rev) and organisations where you can take up the important questions for which not only do you want answers but for which you can also offer solutions.

      Good luck to you.

    234. TheSNPLeftMe says:

      Somerled

      I don’t believe a word you say. The constructed character was rolled out too quickly and in too much detail. A Troll sitting with his “background notes” ready to lie in the hope people will back off and let him continue to disrupt debate.

      Piss off.

    235. David Hannah says:

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000117911/

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000096466/

      Here is the second Freedom of Information request, following my first post, on the 7 civil servants, I realised that I didn’t include it.

      The Scottish Government cancelled all plans to publish a series of ‘New Scotland’ papers, to provide detail on how Scotland can make the transition from a Yes vote to becoming an independent country. During the Pandemic. No forward planning by Nicola Sturgeon.

    236. Thomas says:

      Britain Elects
      @BritainElects
      ·
      30 Mar
      Westminster voting intention:

      CON: 42% (-1)
      LAB: 32% (-2)
      LDEM: 8% (+3)
      GRN: 7% (-)
      REFUK: 3% (-)

      via @YouGov
      , 25 – 26 Mar
      Chgs. w/ 19 Mar

      11 years out of power , and labour still struggling badly in the uk wide polls .Most folk now preferring johnson to starmer as prime minister.

      One blunder after another from starmer and his party leadership. You do have to wonder who the feck is advising this guy.

    237. Thomas says:

      Scottish Parliament constituency ballot voting intentions (Panelbase / Sunday Times):
      SNP 49% (+2)
      Conservatives 22% (-1)
      Labour 20% (-)
      Liberal Democrats 6% (-1)
      Greens 2% (-)

      Scottish Parliament regional list ballot voting intentions:

      SNP 39% (-3)
      Conservatives 21% (-1)
      Labour 17% (-2)
      Greens 8% (+2)
      Alba 6% (+6)
      Liberal Democrats 5% (-2)
      All for Unity 4% (+4)

      Seats projection (with changes from 2016 election): SNP 65 (+2), Conservatives 24 (-7), Labour 20 (-4), Greens 8 (+2), Alba 6 (+6), Liberal Democrats 5 (-), All for Unity 1 (+1)

      SNP: 65 seats
      All others: 64 seats

      SNP OVERALL MAJORITY OF 1 SEAT

      Pro-independence parties: 79 seats (61.2%)
      Anti-independence parties: 50 seats (38.8%)

      PRO-INDEPENDENCE MAJORITY OF 29 SEATS

      i think everyone must have seen this panelbase poll by now.

      Unionists and all their “concern trolls” increasingly getting frenzied. Why wont the jocks listen to us and get back in their boxes and become good little britons once more ?

      SNP 1 ALBA 2

      Eyes on the prize.

    238. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stuart 2.45pm

      A thought experiment for you about whether you’re Scottish or “British” (I used this to good effect during #indyref1 in response to all the “proud Scots but…” types and britnat Scots in the diaspora who felt they should be entitled to vote in the indyref because their grandmother was born in Scotland, even though they’d never lived there and had little or no actual connection with Scotland now….).

      1) In the event Scotland becomes independent, and you are entitled to a Scottish passport, will you apply for one or keep your UK passport?

      2) If it was announced you could vote in #indyref2 as aputative Scots citizen by birth or right of parent/grandparent being born in Scotland, but only on condition that if Scots vote Yes, you lose your UK passport, would you use your vote or not bother?

      Not a single Scot in the diaspora ever said Yes to either. Why on earth should they get to participate in the decision if they don’t intend to live with the consequences?

    239. Republicofscotland says:

      “Brexit showed that a lot of negotiations are required and many variables and i think Scexit will be harder than brexit.”

      Somerled @2.42pm.

      I completely disagree with your above sentence, Scotland would be dealing with the rUK not 26 other nations, which would be much easier and quicker.

    240. Republicofscotland says:

      Just a wee reminder that by voting ALBA with your list vote you help remove the Greens, who are the SNPs enablers when it comes to unpopular policies such as the HCB, GRA, and Self-Id, all of which set back real women’s rights.

      Lets get the Greens out and protect our women folk in the process, vote ALBA with your List vote.

    241. Arch Stanton says:

      It would be fair to say I am not a proponent of Scottish independence and that I do not always agree with everything published on this site. I am compelled, however, to commend the resourcefulness and indomitability of the principle author/owner/administrator of the site and his refusal to bow to the pompous, patronising, self – important, self aggrandising, self congratulatory, intellectual and moral pygmies of the Scottish mainstream media.

      Well done Mr Campbell and never let the imposters grind you down!

    242. Alan McHarg says:

      Not just happy with destroying the SNP and the cause of independence but Ms Sturgeon continues to attack Scot’s Law. With regards to meetings and no minuets taken, which seems endemic to this leadership. If there is nothing to hide then why no documented evidence? It reeks of corruption.

    243. Effigy says:

      I haven’t seen a Sunday Mail in a while but laughed out loud
      to see their pretend impartiality falls on its face when only anti
      independence letters are allows on their readers comments page.

      Their readership is dying of old age and their churnslusts dying of toxic poisoning.

      I’ll be glad when they stop wasting trees to print that garbage.

    244. Ottomanboi says:

      Police getting in touch with the community.
      https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/04/03/now-the-police-are-breaking-up-good-friday-services/
      Just following orders….

    245. Thistle's Bristles says:

      Some thoughts:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      4 April, 2021 at 11:02 am
      If the dosh was spent on superinjunctions, would mentioning the purchase of them be prohibited by the injunctions themselves?

      Q1. If the fact and/or the substance of a super-injunction become common knowledge in the public domain, does it remain illegal to mention those subsequently?

      (If they were to become the subject of discussions, blogs, and social media posts up and down the land – and further afield, how could this ban then possibly be enforced?)

      Q2. If there were to be pertinent injunction-relevant info – displayed
      – just say, on a banner at some high-profile public event;
      – or on a bridge over a motorway;
      – or projected from afar onto a public building;

      would the super-injunction oblige MSM and all others to forego coverage, edit out such footage, not report that news, pixellate any images, etc etc?

      Would any police investigation (of such banned public disclosure) itself be subject to news blackout, as per the original injunction? How far does/can such a cover-up go?
      Do such injunctions typically have inbuilt time-limits, or caveats e.g. to become null and void once the info is widely known?

    246. Fishy Wullie says:

      Arch Stanton says:
      4 April, 2021 at 3:11 pm

      It would be fair to say I am not a proponent of Scottish independence and that I do not always agree with everything published on this site. I am compelled, however, to commend the resourcefulness and indomitability of the principle author/owner/administrator of the site and his refusal to bow to the pompous, patronising, self – important, self aggrandising, self congratulatory, intellectual and moral pygmies of the Scottish mainstream media.

      Well done Mr Campbell and never let the imposters grind you down!

      ————————————————————–

      Well done Arch I’m I’m sure Stu will never forget you wonderful accolade, A bit of arse licking goes a long way right.

      He’ll never see through you

    247. Donald Raymond says:

      Sturgeon on the news saying she wants to scrap “not proven” verdicts because it reducing confusion rates. A not so subtle slur on Alex Salmond and the media are playing along with the charade.

    248. somerled says:

      Andy Ellis – I remember your twitter account with Max Headroom photo. Some of what you say is fair enough but also if i am guilty of tarring all indy supporters with the same brush then it can be said of many Nationalists about unionists. Always called a fake scot, a tory, ("Tractor" - Ed) etc. It works both ways. I think the reason many Nationalists do this is because of frustration. You all know that Unionists have the upper hand. They won in 2014 and Conservatives are in power in WM with no sign of change. Boris and any other PM will never agree to another Indyref so you are stuck in limbo with Sturgeon in charge of Indy and everyone is now aware of her lies. The indy dream is dying and yesterday man Salmond wont save it.

      I honestly believe their are more insults from the Indy side towards the Unionists than vice versa because of this frustration. Too many on your side dont admit to it. You are even turning on each other with death threats to Joanna Cherry. As much as i like Stu as a person , I feel he too refuses to acknowledge his part in the abuse. He isnt responsible for his followers but many copy his language
      and he has done a lot of unnecessary attacks on Ruth Davidson, Muriel Gray, Kezia Dugdale and others and seems to play tbe man rather than the ball. Maybe we are all guilty of that and need to think more about our actions.

      After all, the word Cybernats was invented specifically regarding them and most seem to take pride in calling themselves one. Rev Stu knows my real name or at least did a few years ago when i supported indy and emailed him privately. I still read Wings because i trust Stu to tell the truth (or what he believes is the truth) although i now disagree with his views on Indy.

      I agree with you that in an ideal world we would all use our real names. I support the idea of proper registration on Twitter (even if info kept private). I can’t say if you’re a bully or not but if you think men and women who use pseudonyms are cowards then your insulting a lot of women. All i can say for myself as a disabled man is I am not taking the risk when so many people are violent and make threats online. Until things change, I will continue to use my ancestors name as a pseudonym.

    249. Republicofscotland says:

      This good news.

      “BREAKING: Enough SNP supporters plan to give second vote to Salmond’s Alba to help deliver a pro-independence supermajority of 29, according to
      @Panelbase
      poll for
      @SundayTimesScot”

      https://twitter.com/SundayTimesSco/status/1378484701615304704

    250. Arch Stanton says:

      Republicofscotland 3.05

      “Scexit” would be a million times more difficult than Brexit, not least because Scotland has little or nothing in the way of a state apparatus, including currency, central bank, lender of last resort, border controls, diplomatic service, defence force, trade agreements…and would be inheriting around £360 billion of debt, as well as one of the biggest structural deficits in the developed world.

      Brexit was difficult only because of the need to preserve an open border in Ireland, the incompetence of Theresa May and the subsequent strength of Parliamentary resistance. The UK Government would have no such difficulty in relation to “Scexit” and would be forced to take a very hard line with Scotland, not least by the inevitable resentment and reaction of the English electorate.

      I’m struggling to understand what the Scottish negotiating strategy might be and how we could avoid a hard border and an end to free movement within the UK.

    251. somerled says:

      Republicofscotland – I don’t believe Scotland will be allowed to join the EU. Some kind of trade deal will be done i think but most of Scottish trade goes South. Will there need to bea hard border for tax reasons, immigration etc? All positive or negative issues should be discussed openly.

      Also what about the hundreds of other countries worldwide? Liz Truss has spent over a year doing trade negotiations worldwide. Will we also waste money on embassies, ambassadors & thousands more civil servants?

      I was really meaning Scexit problems with regards to 300 years shared Union, splitting up. While i can think of defence, armed forces, monarchy, HMRC, Civil Service, Crown Estate etc there will be lots more than need negotiation so a confirmatory vote will be needed after all the discussions. That is what tbe SNP wanted with Brexit and it took 4 years to sort out. It will be the same if not longer to break up the UK.

    252. Arch Stanton says:

      Somerled 3.22

      Well said but don’t expect civilised or rational debate from Andy Ellis. He’s right about everything and incapable of being wrong you see.

    253. Republicofscotland says:

      “Scexit” would be a million times more difficult than Brexit, not least because Scotland has little or nothing in the way of a state apparatus, including currency, central bank, lender of last resort, border controls, diplomatic service, defence force, trade agreements…and would be inheriting around £360 billion of debt, as well as one of the biggest structural deficits in the developed world.”

      Arch Stanton.

      These things were covered in the Wee Blue Book of 2014 and in Alex Salmond’s White Paper, so not that difficult, I should add that no other country in history on the verge of independence, as Scotland was in 2014, needed to produce such an indpeth and detailed post-union strategy as Alex Salmond did.

      You obviously didn’t read any of it, so its no wonder you’re in the dark.

      I should add that I see no reason now, why we need to explain our route post-independence as we did in 2014, to a union that’s floating on a sea of debt created by Westminster, which would become even deeper after Scotland’s assets are removed.

    254. Arch Stanton says:

      Fishy Wullie 3.18

      Incurable stupidity – nature, nurture or both?

    255. Big Jock says:

      Donald- Regards Sturgeon trying to remove the not proven verdict. She obviously wasn’t a good lawyer. Not Proven means not guilty. Therefore most if not all not proven verdicts would default to not guilty. Where there is doubt you can’t convict.

      Why? Because in a modern democracy it protects the accused from harmful false accusations. She is basically saying all not proven cases of rape should now be guilty verdicts.

      This woman is now letting a personal vendetta destroy the legal verdicts. She is a very dangerous lady.

    256. Robert Graham says:

      Unlike some blogs on the Internet Wings sets the pace and usually first with the News .

      For example

      On another blog the headline is

      The suspicious case of the vanishing blog

      On Wings it’s

      The suspicious case of the vanishing money

      Behind the times , behind the SNP and blindly following the leader single file , back,back,back what don’t we want Independence, when Don’t we want it never because we would be out of well paying job and a good pension back ,back ,back ,stop pushing forward don’t you get it it’s back back idiots

    257. Stuart says:

      Andy Ellis,

      A complete strawman, please point me to where I said I should be able to vote in indyref2?

      I merely offered an opinion that subtebly said I find people like you on the Internet seem to infer that people like me who were born in Scotland to Scottish parents and generations of Scots, are somehow not as pure Scottish as you offensive.

      I’ve seen lots of commentators such as you that say “the vast majority of Scots (in Scotland) want independance” Please show me the proof? And PS Opinion Polls don’t count, and also Corbyn’s claim that his bizarre politics “won the argument” ranks alongside the usual arguments its the Russians wot done it when an election doesn’t go your way!

      I actually respect Alex Salmond because inter alia, he comes across to me as honest, intelligent has integrity (unlike his successor) and truly believes in the cause of Scottish Independance, not just to line his pockets or gain power.

      It is possible believe it or not in these peculiar times to have differing opinions on any subject and still have respect for your “opponent ” on this particular subject (and I could be wrong, has been known x) that just like the race industry for example you believe that “all true Scots” just like all proper minorities have to think the same on any given subject, or at least vote uniformly.

      At end of the day will never be able to convince you that I am so proud to be from “God’s Country” just for palpably different reasons…..doesn’t make you a bad person or me , just different is all, all I’d say is be careful how you put 5his “argument” to your so called opponents some of whom are much less likely to be as accommodating as me living within Scotland

      This brings me to one final point if I may . What do you do with roughly half of the population wishing to remain in the Union? Does this become another NI Tradgedy?

    258. Shaza says:

      I am a Brandane, born on the Isle of Bute. If I say I am British am I no longer a Brandane?

    259. Bob W says:

      @Arch Stanton

      end to free movement within the UK.

      There would no longer be a UK following Scottish independence. Freedom of movement would be up for negotiation between Scotland and the entity it had left.

    260. Elmac says:

      Re Daisy Walker @ 2.42

      Sturgeon’s comment re the not proven verdict is intended as another despicable slur on Salmond. In that respect it is nonsense as, if the jury did not have that option in his trial they would gave had to find him not guilty as a guilty verdict requires the prosecution to prove their charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Let’s not forget that in respect of all the other charges against him he was found not guilty. This despite an obvious attempt to fit him up which was probably instigated by Sturgeon or at the very least orchestrated by her. We are still waiting for a corrupt COPFS and police to charge the bulk of the complainants with perjury which would already have happened in any decent society. Meantime an innocent man continues to have his reputation smeared by a disgusting lying excuse for a human being. Roll on the day when she loses power and a proper examination of what went on is conducted. That will be the day when Sturgeon, Murrell, Wolffe, Swinney, Loyd, Evan’s, the Alphabetties and a few others face trial, conviction and jail. No wonder she is desperate to cling to power.

    261. Andy Ellis says:

      @somerled 3.22 pm

      You just can’t help yourself misrepresenting people, can you? I honestly can’t decide whether it’s ill-intent on your part or just some kind of blind spot you have because you’re minimally self aware? If you honestly believe there’s more abuse from indy supporters to britnats than the other way round, I don’t know what to say to you. It certainly doesn’t correpsond with my experience of the #indyref1 campaign or the years since.

      Tone policing the internet, or society in general is a pointless exercise. There is a difference between disagreement and abuse. There is no right not to be offended.

      Of course I don’t expect people to use their real names if it puts them in danger. I’ve long thought – and said loudly – that the default state should be for people to post in their own names, or (as you suggest) to ensure their identities were verified. If that was done, much of the abuse would disappear. That wouldn’t of course stop regressive roasters and cancel culture advocates closing down opposition voices as Stu and I both found out.

      The pro-indy campaign doesn’t have to be a hive mind any more than any other campaign, political party or polity in the world. The clear and present danger to our free speech and liberties – by a huge margin – are the people pushing the TRA/TWAW/there is no debate mantra not just here in Scotland but internationally. The chilling effect of no platforming in academia, media, government and increasingly business is bad enough but the HCB will inevitably extend this to everyone in their day to day life.

      I don’t know your back story apart from what you assert here, so I’m not in a position to judge your bona fides. You seem somewhat conflicted to me, and not that well informed. Luckily “Yes to No” folk like you are much rarer than “No to Yes” people. Whatever the latest travails of the SNP, Alba and the broader movement, the basic arguments for indy and against the union remain unchanged.

      Just as there are risks and opportunities with indy, so there are with the union. There is no slam dunk argument on either side. Neither side can guarantee outcomes or see in to the future: all anyone can do is examine the evidence and make their own judgement and cost/benefit analysis. I think yours is dead wrong, but there’s no point flogging a dead horse. Neither history or demographics is on the side of British nationalism as a project thankfully: I only hope I live to see its demise.

    262. Alastair Naughton says:

      Holy fuck! This is dynamite! I had EXTREMELY RELUCTANTLY resigned myself to voting SNP on the constituency vote for a number of reasons:

      Aberdeen South and North Kincardineshire is a marginal, and the Tories would be the certain gainers. I couldn’t live with that.

      Also, it was what Alex Salmond asked us to do, and in this election, if it’s good enough for Alex, it’s good enough for me, despite ALL my numerous misgivigs.

      However this blows the whole thing wide open again.

    263. Robert Graham says:

      Next up for some close scrutiny

      Nicola Sturgeons Legal Career,

      So far the media has steered clear but the smell of fresh blood can be overwhelming and once the momentum builds up sometimes it just can’t be stopped , if there’s something there anyone with a grievance will pop up and be more than helpful with a sad tale of professional misconduct .

      Aye things ain’t about to get better , Things can only get better was a theme tune adopted by Labour ,look how it changed for Tony Blair it doesn’t take long and you’re future is not a bright light in the tunnel Nicola it’s a fkn big train with Alex at the wheel, shouting Honey I am back .

    264. boris says:

      Kirsty is the voice of the SNP

      The SNP’s Kirsty Blackman told Business Insider “The SNP has failed to make the case for Scottish independence in a way that is relevant to Scottish people.

      “I am not in Westminster to pressure the government for a referendum. Constitutional issues are not the biggest concern. In fact, I very rarely talk about Scottish independence in the commons.”

      Ms Blackman, who is the party’s Westminster spokeswoman on the economy, also admitted the SNP was struggling to maintain the public’s interest after a decade in power.

      A Scottish Conservative spokesman said: “This is a rare but welcome bit of self-awareness from an SNP politician. It’s to be hoped that this is a sign of things to come from the SNP.

      https://www.businessinsider.com/snp-scottish-independence-referendum-kirsty-blackman-interview

    265. Robert Dickson says:

      Mr ‘Somerled’ was a sympathy junkie on Twitter.
      A complete waste of time and energy.

    266. Ottomanboi says:

      Somerled 3:35 pm
      Scots must inevitably choose between the socio-cultural and economic safety of keeping to the British status quo ie staying close to England for fear of «consequences» or venturing further afield, making new alliances, trading markets etc.
      An imaginative, bold leadership would plough a fresh furrow. A conservative one could keep Scotland, although politically independent, in a species of thralldom as Ireland was until joining the EU and adopting the euro.
      Scots, who invented the modern insurance industry, may have to be prepared to be more adventurous and take risks.

    267. wee monkey says:

      The depths the deniers trawl is enlightning.

      Simple fact. #

      The CEO cannot account for the money.
      That’s it. Not MI5, not union press nor
      “Brit Nats” any other lunatic suggestion.

      #. Do not be that surprised when suddenly an account statement appears, although it may have parts or lines “redacted”, as they have a habit of doing..squirrels, squirrels EVERYWHERE.

    268. Nemisis Benn says:

      I cannot be bothered digging out my copy of Woodward & Bernstein’s “All the President’s Men” but “The SNP has no knowledge of the investigation” is very reminiscent of Richard Nixon’s people denying that the sun rises in the east.
      Don’t forget two things:
      1: Follow the money and
      2: It’s not the initial wrongdoing that got him into trouble, it was the coverup

    269. Mark Boyle says:

      @Shaza says: 4 April, 2021 at 3:49 pm

      “I am a Brandane, born on the Isle of Bute. If I say I am British am I no longer a Brandane?”

      Nowadays you can say you’re a British Scottish Brandane eco-sexual transgender gluten intolerant vegan Siberian hamster viking on the Autism spectrum sorted for Gryffindor with Thunderbird rising if you want – and if anyone so much as rolls their eyes at you, a handy phone app c/o the Scottish Government can activate a tolerance death squad to be dispatched within five minutes to whisk the offender away to a “reeducation camp” in the Highlands, whilst a frenzied mob burns all their worldly possessions and you are given a comfort blanket, hot cocoa (fair trade), a social worker, a trauma counsellor, £1 million in compensation and an anxiety puppy called “Hope”.

    270. Mark Boyle says:

      Correction to the above – the puppy would be called “Dignity”.

    271. Andy Ellis says:

      @Arch 3.05pm

      1) ” “Scexit” would be a million times more difficult than Brexit, not least because Scotland has little or nothing in the way of a state apparatus, including currency, central bank, lender of last resort, border controls, diplomatic service, defence force, trade agreements…and would be inheriting around £360 billion of debt, as well as one of the biggest structural deficits in the developed world.”

      Scotland would only inherit the debt it negotiated with rUK. It would also be entitled to a pro-rata share of assets in return (this is what happened with Czechia and Slovakia). Are you really trying to say Scotland would be incapable of doing what Slovakia, the Baltic States and former Yugoslav republics managed to do from much less advanced starting points? That’s just laughable, sorry. I have more faith and more confidence in my fellow countryman than you obviously, but any risks would be worth it to extricate ourselves from the rotten UK state. I tend to agree the current Scottish government could and should have been doing more in the way of preparing the ground for the institutions of an independent Scottish state, but none of it is rocket science.

      2) “Brexit was difficult only because of the need to preserve an open border in Ireland, the incompetence of Theresa May and the subsequent strength of Parliamentary resistance. The UK Government would have no such difficulty in relation to “Scexit” and would be forced to take a very hard line with Scotland, not least by the inevitable resentment and reaction of the English electorate.”

      The English electorate don’t care. If Westminster can do a special deal for NI, they can do one for Scotland. Big whoop.

      3) “I’m struggling to understand what the Scottish negotiating strategy might be and how we could avoid a hard border and an end to free movement within the UK.”

      Your lack of imagination and inability to see that virtually all things are possible in negotiation tells us you’re just bumping your gums and have little in the way of insight or general knowledge. Again, stun us with another. Just another clueless britnat regurgitating the Project Fear bible whole and expecting us not to point and laugh at your inane claim to be a “persuadable” No.

    272. Shaza says:

      I like the death squad idea 🙂

    273. Glenn Boyd says:

      Many years ago, when the great John Pilger was a young man, his father took him to one side to explore his son’s future career choice. Why told that John was considering a future in print journalism his dad questioned why any son of his would even think of joining those he castigated as “The Legion of Liars! (John’s father was a leading light in the IWW Trade Union, while his mother was amongst the first women to graduate from an Australian University).

      The Herald has always been a filthy, rabid, right-wing rag; recall its adoration for Thatcher, their vicious campaigns again the miners and poll-tax activists. However, a nadir of sorts has been reached in the quality of its current scribblers: The likes of “Uncle” Tam Gordon, Brian Wilson, Brian Taylor, Leslie Riddoch and Neil Mackay. This line-up resembles nothing so much as a grotesque ensemble of repugnant, vicious hacks operating within a moral vacuum.

      Any misgivings one may have regarding the Alba Party and Alex Salmond must surely evaporate upon reading the rantings of the likes of Mackay. His current output on Facebook is frankly disturbing! Its surely only a matter of time before Mackay’s notorious double page spread re-emerges before the election, comparing Alex with the Yorkshire Ripper and other serial killers which was published on the eve of Salmond’s trial. Sadly for us all, there is not one “proper” journalist worthy of the name operating in Scotland other than Rev Stuart Campbell

    274. somerled says:

      Mark Boyle – thanks that gave me a laugh. Didn’t know that was the name of people born on Bute. Only been once on holiday & visited Mount Stuart. Beautiful building and island. Sorry to read about Johnny Bute’s death recently.

    275. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stuart 3.46 pm.

      I didn’t say, nor do I believe, in concepts of purity. Anyone born in Scotland, or with Scots parents, would automatically qualify for citizenship. From memory those with Scots grandparents would be able to apply, as is the case for Irish citizenship. Anyone living here at the point of indy would also qualify if I remember the White Paper correctly, so rUK passport holders would be able to have Scottish citizenship if they liked, or retain their UK citizenship.

      I’ve never said the words you put in my mouth. I understand it is true that the majority of “native born” Scots actually votes Yes in 2014, and the No vote was achieved (largely) on the backs of English born residents. *Some* people like Alf Baird have argued that this means we should restrict the franchise à la New Caledonia to exclude “non-natives”: I’ve actually argued strongly AGAINST that as being blood and soil nationalism, rather than the civic nationalism our movement should stand for. I realise this doesn’t fit your agenda.

      Scots unionists post indy will melt away like “snaw aff a dyke” as they say. How many admit to being unionists in Ireland today? Decades from now it’ll be like finding people who admit to being fans of Thatcher or Boris Johnson. I don’t hate “proud Scots but…” I just feel sorry for them. I don’t understand them, nor do I have any real desire to do so. If they want to keep campaigning for re-union post indy, then have at it. Nobody will stop them. Doubtless they can take lessons and encouragement from all the other independent countries that have abandoned their independence and re-joined the Empire. 🙂

    276. Anna says:

      ,
      Whether the money is missing or misplaced its not the way you run business, particularly when its other folks money you are trusted with. Little wonder the Murrels were asking folk to pay their membership early, what a cheek.

    277. Alf Baird says:

      somerled @ 3:22 pm

      “more insults from the Indy side towards the Unionists”

      There is not very much evidence of Scotland being an equal partner nation in a voluntary union alliance, far less having a national veto on anything, which raises questions about the very term ‘unionist’. Michael Hechter’s study on UK ‘Internal Colonialism’ explains Scotland’s (colonial) political, social and economic reality in different ways, including this:

      “The conscious rationale behind anglicization among the (Scottish) elite was to dissociate themselves as much as possible from the mass of their countrymen, who were so strongly deprecated by the English culture. Thus, they eagerly learned to speak English in the home, to emulate English manners and attitudes, to style their lives on the English model. In effect, this was a voluntary renunciation (by the Scottish bourgeoisie) of the national origins.”

      Which perhaps helps in some respects to explain your mention of the “fake scot”, which may perhaps be linked to what postcolonial literature describes as the bourgeoisie native elite’s main objective “to become an imitation of the colonizer” (Fanon), or “to mimick the colonizer” (Cesaire) in terms of language, culture, values etc, and in their support thereafter of the dominant ‘mother country’ and opposition to independence.

      This perhaps helps explain why the vast majority of pro-independence voters comprise Scots speakers from working class backgrounds holding to a Scottish identity, whilst significant numbers of anti-independence voters are Anglophone speakers holding to a British identity.

    278. Andy Ellis says:

      @Arch 3.37 pm

      “Well said but don’t expect civilised or rational debate from Andy Ellis. He’s right about everything and incapable of being wrong you see.”

      No…no…that can’t be right…I remember the last time it distinctly: 2.38pm, 1st April 1983.

      Lighten up guys. I’m just some guy on the internet. I have opinions. I think they are correct. I will dispute your (wrong) opinions.

      I’m wrong all the time.

      I thought the SNP were trustworthy.

      I thought it could be reformed even after I left in disgust.

      I was pretty sure after brexit that Scots would wake the fuck up and we’d see > 60% for indy.

      I’m quite prepared to be proven wrong about Scottish independence, but (unlike some) I’d still prefer to be a citizen of an independent Scottish republic and a bit poorer than richer and remain a citizen of the UK.

      This really isn’t rocket science.

    279. james says:

      brilliant coverage wings..

      “The fundraiser cash has gone away. But the story isn’t going to.” try as they might, i don’t see it going away either..

    280. CyberMidgie says:

      Looking at the tweets shown in the article, it’s remarkable how many of these people don’t seem to know that a crime is a crime regardless of who reports it.

      They may well think Sean Clerkin is “eccentric” or even a “crank” – I don’t have much time for him myself – but he has just as much right to be taken seriously by the police as anyone else.

      The Unionist press will say anything, so I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by them, but I used to think the SNP people knew better.

      The SNP used to be proud of not resorting to the shenanigans other parties would stoop to. They were the party of integrity. Not anymore. I find that a terribly sad thing.

      It’s bad enough now that I was originally going to spoil my constituency ballot paper rather than vote SNP as I normally would. Instead I’ll give them one very last chance to get back on track, only because I plan to vote Alba on the list and that’s what Alex Salmond is asking me to do for independence.

    281. Arch Stanton says:

      Andy Ellis 4.48

      “Lighten up” says Andy without even the merest hint of irony or self awareness..??

      Let me know when you can articulate a case for independence, without merely referring to something called the “Wee Blue Book” in which it is stated Scotland keeps the UK afloat and subsidises the UK, on the basis of our “oil revenues” ?

      Someone needs to update the author?

      Anyway, have a good evening Andy. I’m off to enjoy apéros Zoom and discuss the lockdown in France with some French friends and perhaps discuss the possibility of a country without a currency of its own applying to join the EU. I like to remind them that je suis toujours le drôle oiseaux?

    282. Arch Stanton says:

      Andy Ellis 4.48

      “Lighten up” says Andy without even the merest hint of irony or self awareness..??

      Let me know when you can articulate a case for independence, without merely referring to something called the “Wee Blue Book” in which it is stated Scotland keeps the UK afloat and subsidises the UK, on the basis of our “oil revenues” ?

      Someone needs to update the author?

      Anyway, have a good evening Andy. I’m off to enjoy apéros Zoom and discuss the lockdown in France with some French friends and perhaps discuss the possibility of a country without a currency of its own applying to join the EU. I like to remind them that je suis toujours le drôle oiseaux?

    283. Arch Stanton says:

      Andy Ellis,

      I just saw your earlier post claiming Scotland wouldn’t be required to inherit a share of the debt, would be entitled to a share of the “assets” and the English electorate wouldn’t care.

      I have read some terribly misinformed and mad as a door comments from nationalists but this is right up there. Not one single nationalist has a rational position on currency, let alone anything else.

      We’ll see, we’ll see, we’ll see, we’ll see doesn’t convince anyone.

    284. Stuart says:

      There you go again “you believe that people that voted for your version of Independance are “true Scots” whereas anybody else is either an “English settler” or anti-Scotland. I have yo say bizarre you do realise that the middle class English who’ve moved to a better place I.e Scotland are just the same wankers we have down here who voted against Brexit and to this day are an embarrassing bunch of twats who aim to doto Scotland what they’ve done to vast swathes of working class England!! I live in County Durham pit Village, so forgive me if I find your colonial bollix about battles hundreds of years ago the usual site that they try to divide us with

    285. Andy Ellis says:

      @Arch 5.33pm

      I have. If only you could do the same for the case for staying in the union. so far you’re coming up empty. I’ve never referred to the Wee Blue Book. Perhaps you’re thinking of somebody else. you don’t seem that quick on the uptake, so it would hardly be a surprise.

      Given your output the idea you have friends is as likely as the fabled positive case for the union turning up. 5 will get you ten you’re sitting in your mammy’s spare room in your underwear eating Frosties from the box.

      Doubtless our French friends would rather have an independent Scotland in the EU than welcome rump UK back.

      Enjoy your Frosties!

    286. Stuart says:

      shite not site

    287. Andy Ellis says:

      @Arch Stanton 5.39pm

      *sighs*

      Assuming a pro rata share of debt happens in return for a pro-rata share of assets. This is what happened in the case of e.g. the Velvet Divorce between Czechia and Slovakia. It is what was offered in the White Paper prior to #indyref1, and was was negotiated between Ireland and the UK in 1920-21. The Irish never paid their share (which related mostly to repayment for land debts) because the British nationalists wrote it off in return for the Irish accepting the jerrymandered border of the NI statelet.

      If no negotiated settlement is agreed, then the “seceding” entity is not liable for ANY of the debt of the larger entity: it’s simple precedent and internationally accepted. Former republics in the USSR did not assume the debts incurred by the USSR, the Russian Federation as successor did. the same would apply for the UK: if no agreed split of debts and assets can be negotiated with Scotland, we inherit zero debt share and zero shared assets. I’d bit their hands odd for that deal. Remember that Cameron’s government were VERY careful to reassure the markets that the UK government stood behind ALL of the UK debt in 2014. They couldn’t do anything else.

      Go and eat you Frosties mate, you’re really all over the place here.

    288. TheItalianJob says:

      Funny how many Tories complain to me about how Westminster subsidies (ha ha believe that if you will) Scotland.
      My reply to them is to lobby your Tory MP to support a bill for Westminster to release Scotland from the Union and all should be well. Funny how they then shut up and don’t know what to say.

      We can raise and spend our own revenues rather than as we do now and give it all to the U.K. Treasury and get a small amount back as a handout.
      If the economy is going well or isn’t so good then Scotland as an Independent Country is accountable in full and we will solve our own issues rather than the mess we have at the moment with next to no financial clout on how we spend ALL of our revenues we raise and give to the U.K. Treasury.

    289. TheItalianJob says:

      The Accountancy Trick that hides Scotland’s wealth.

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/category/scotlands-economy/

    290. Saffron Robe says:

      Nicola Sturgeon’s comments regarding the not proven verdict prove that she is an unsavoury individual willing to destroy any Scottish institution that stands in the way of her petty vindictiveness.

      What legal background does she speak of? Found guilty of misconduct before having to resign after just three years as a solicitor to avoid being struck off? And that makes her some kind of legal expert?

    291. Richard Hunter says:

      I suspect there’s enough room for fudging what ‘campaign’ means to avoid any criminal charges, but in an ideal world where we can have nice things that money would have been invested in Tesla shares or Bitcoin and rapidly becoming an impressive war chest. Just goes to show we don’t need Westminster to piss a great Scottish resource up against the wall.

    292. Pete M says:

      Kiwilassie

      The house I heard Nikla bought for her french girlfriend was supposedly Andy Murrays mums house in Auchterarder.

    293. Carol Neill says:

      I might’be wrong but as a relative newcomer to this site I sense an awful lot of bitch fighting , anyhoo off to bed up early watching my granddaughter, female with a you know what

    294. Mr Bonobo says:

      The Times twitter has Police confirming SNP under investigation for fraud.

      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a0452af4-94ce-11eb-8d6e-90b9b6b1f793?shareToken=2e4a233f876a6e44495c179998169297

    295. Old Man of Gor says:

      Well either all the funds raised are sitting in an identifiable account, for all who contributed to see… …or they are not…

    296. Kcor says:

      Stoker says,

      “But i believe they’ve been promised it from some yet unknown woke source, in payment for pushing through certain agendas/policies.”

      But they won’t be able to unweave it out of their 2019 accounts.

      They thought they would get away with it, as they did about the criminal conspiracy to jail Alex Salmond.

      But now it is too late. They have been exposed.

      Of course the corrupt lying criminal James Wolffe, Lord Advocate of Scotland, who is in Sturgeon’s pocket and in Murrell’s trousers will do his best to protect them.

      But this time the cat is really out of the bag.

      It is crystal clear that the “ring fenced” money was embezzled by Sturgeon and Murrell.

    297. Old Man of Gor says:

      Somebody just needs to go back to the fund raising, then follow the money. Should be a short exercise for any half decent forensic accountant.

    298. Ian McLaren says:

      Ah, so if this is a dirty effort to smear the Murrells, maybe they can tell us in which account the Indyref2 ringfenced money is ‘resting’, since it doesn’t look as if they wanted to let the SNP Lord Provost of Edinburgh or at least one company director elected to their Finance Committee know.

    299. Old Man of Gor says:

      Agreed. Either the money is resting peacefully somewhere,
      or it’s not. And If it’s not, those charged with looking after it must explain clearly where it went, and why.

    300. Kiwilassie says:

      Pete M says:
      4 April, 2021 at 6:58 pm
      Kiwilassie

      The house I heard Nikla bought for her french girlfriend was supposedly Andy Murrays mums house in Auchterarder.

      Reply
      Is it possible for someone to go into the councils web page & see who’s name the property is under. I expect you pay council rates on your property there.

      Another way is if their is a Real Estate agent on this site they can go into the site they use to do appraisal prices on properties coming to the market.
      We have GURU as well as other sites here in NZ for this purpose.
      You will get the names of the new owner, date of sale & how much it sold for.

    301. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Sorry Tom Gordon,

      We met a couple of times. You seemed articulate, intelligent and talented.

      But you have lost your objectivity. You are down and dirty wrestling with muddy trolls. You think they are all on Wings Over Scotland. I know for a fact you are wrong.

      Tom, every journalist I ever met has a cynical streak a mile wide. That often leads to good stories. But with all due respect you are a million miles away from being a Scottish Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. You have unearthed ONLY one of three reports to the police about the Murrell’s. Yet you fall for the oldest con-a-hack job in the book. You see what has been put in front of you and LAZILY accept it as Gospel.

      TOM, PLEASE BE MORE ALERT.

      (That is one of Stuart Campbell’s quotes (properly attributed as I hate plagiaritsts) ).

      You think ONE “eccentric” person coming out and saying he has reported the Murrell’s to the police is the whole story?

      Journalism 101 is to dig deeper. Double check your sources; treble check the veracity.

      Tom you have done none of these.

      This is why I am able to state as a reasonable working hypothesis your newspaper the Glasgow Herald will become insolvent in the next 12 months…

      Fact: https://www.statista.com/statistics/288429/the-herald-scotland-newspaper-circulation-trend-in-the-uk/

      Lazy, shoddy, subjective, bad journalism has caused the demise of your organ.

      Tom, here is your real scoop and it is right in front of you pal…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56630482

      Nicola Sturgeon is an excellent actress. She has covered up her sexuality for decades.

      I don’t give a flying fuck about what went on in the Balmoral Hotel or her alleged “proposal” to her Borgen crush, the actress Sidse Babett Knudsen.

      It is open-source fact that Sturgeon used her office to stalk Knudsen.

      The problem with covering up your sexuality is it speaks to your comfort with lying.

      At the outset, I say it is APPALLING that society requires gay people to have to hide their true sexuality.

      Yes of course this is a complex issue. It is a disgrace that within Sturgeon’s early lifetime and formative years it was a criminal offence to conduct certain gayy and homosexxual activities in Scotland (sic).

      Note: Cesar-sexuall can be deliberately misspelt as Stuart’s WordPress website moderation system replaces certain words such as “Cesar”. Others, such giving a “toast-job” along with consensual “teletubbies” from Lesbos between two consenting adults make the eventual BTL post read like literary jobby-fest. Unless you deliberately miss spell certain words and bypass the WordPress sensitive name removal plugin). Back on topic…

      Tom, when when you study some privately commissioned PI reports on Sturgeon, it is evident her familiarity with dissembling is absolute.

      Worse, she is absolutely comfortable with telling porkies. Though struggles to keep her telling blink wink rate down.

      Tom, Sturgeon was 99% guaranteed to get rid of Salmond. I was a law officer. I know how that works. It is why I left that job. Bent cops make me sick to the pit of my stomach

      The analogy that we had in Tulliallan Police College to ALL LAW was Road Traffic. If you stop a car, any car, even brand new vehicles, there WILL be a reportable fault somewhere on that car. It is a complex machine with 2024 moving parts. A driver and owner will receive a caution and charge.

      Then we “let the courts decide”.

      So much dung was flung at Alex Sturgeon that it would make Moorov and his doctrine blush.

      But for now, the courts kept their integrity. With great distress, GOING FORWARD FROM HERE, the judicial system is NOT safe under Sturgeon or Humza Yousaff.

      The problem now is that Borgen-watching Sturgeon thinks this is all a game. She just figured out a new way to manipulate the courts.

      The bigger problem is Alex Salmond. He is Sturgeons mentor and miles above her in iintellectual capability. Uniquely for a someone in his line of work, Alex Salmond is a conviction-politician. He believes in principle. He is as honest as you can get in that vocation. Crucially he delivers his promises. The first Scottish IndyRef was a promise that Alex kept.

      Subsequently, Alex Salmond beat off the disgraceful fake rape allegations as orchestrated on Nicola Sturgeon’s watch.

      Hell hath no fury like a psycho FM fae Dreghorn scorned.

      Tom what you should really be worried about (other than losing your job at the failing Herald and asking to work as a sub-editor for the highly successful journalist Stuart Campbell), is the fact that’…

      Nicola Bashar al-McAssad, our current First Minister is INTENT on PLUGGING CLOSED ANY FAILSAFE THAT STOPS THE INNOCENT BEING IMPRISONED ON HER SAYSO.

      I present you with what a real journalist would name “Exhibit A”…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56630482

      She WILL kill off the the failsafe Scots Law “not proven” verdict. Had Sturgeon done that before framing Alex Salmond, then he is likely to have had the ONLY gap in his defense fatally undermined. Alex would by HMP prisoner number BL642811823 and consigned to history.

      Alex Salmond is an innocent man. The courts of a majority OF women have given their verdict.INNOCENT. Except for viewers of the BBC.

      Alex Salmond is also a very brave human being. He is willing to go through Hell and back AGAIN to secure a principle that Scots have a right to self-determination and not spend eternity as a chattel of the British Empire.

      Scotland is a sovereign country, not a British Imperial Colony.

      Nicola Sturgeon got away with trying to frame Alex Salmond. He managed to be found NOT GUILTY but she will do this again as she believes she has impunity. The ONLY way to expunge/expel the psycho at Bute House is to have her cautioned and charged as appropriate for breaking many laws. Fortunately several of the thousands of Wings Over Scotland contributors are already giving irrefutable evidence to Police Scotland.

      In addition, professional standards (AC12 in present-day tv vernacular) at another Police Force (ironically) as a benefit of being in the United Kingdom have been fully briefed. If officers at Police Scotland neglect their duty, they will be arrested and carted off to Englandshire in protective custody. Up to and including Police Scotland Chief Constable Ian Livingstone.

      You see Tom, there are MANY cops in England who actively want rid of us pesky sponging Jocks. Ask a dozen police officers south of the Border? 9 of 12 would happily wave goodbye to Jockistan and all our lazy druggies who sponge off of the Barnet Consequentails.

      Tom, whatever your political persuasions or your private pecadiloes as discussed in hack-bars and offsite journo-forums by your no-mate pals with too many drams in them, if you had an ounce of journalistic integrity or self-respect, you would be asking WHY NOW DOES NICOLA STURGEON SEEK TO ABOLISH THE “NOT PROVEN VERDICT?

      Cui Bono?

      Tom, you still have a chance to polish your CV. When the Herald calls in the Official Receivers, you may have to join the ranks of the Bloggers. In many ways the ballsiest job of making a crust in the hack industry is to write and ask for payment from your readers direct. Readers pay you if your research and integrity are up to scratch. If not, you go personally bankrupt.

      That my friend is how Stuart Campbell has received over £1,000,000 for the words he puts on paper. His research is impecable. He always gives his source material wherever possible.

      Tom, in the past few weeks your sniping and jibes come across as a debt-ridden paranoid alcohol-soaked hack who is past his best and suffers from dreadful avarice. There is still time for you to save your career. But not long.

      Either do your job as a reporter and do ii well. Or start learning how to flip burgers at your local McDonalds fast food joint. You won’t be the first nor the last.

    302. Arch Stanton says:

      Andy Ellis states that if and when Scotland secedes from the Union, there will be no inherited debt, simply because all we have to do is ensure there is no negotiated settlement, thereby relieving Scotland of any responsibility for national debt, enabling is to sail serenely onwards and upwards to prosperity.

      Is it any wonder nationalists are perceived as being slightly mad?

    303. Ross says:

      I just can’t fathom why a supposed democratic socialist party has a CEO on over 100k a year.

      He’s not a parliamentarian

      He’s not making publicly accountable decisions

      On 50k (double median salary) I would be querying but would seem more appropriate

      Why am I, an averaged waged person, funding this?

    304. Auld Jock says:

      Al-Stuart @ 6.47.
      Brilliant well written..I suppose Tom will just ignore your advice and sign on the dole…

    305. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Andy Ellis states that if and when Scotland secedes from the Union, there will be no inherited debt, simply because all we have to do is ensure there is no negotiated settlement, thereby relieving Scotland of any responsibility for national debt, enabling is to sail serenely onwards and upwards to prosperity.”

      No, there will be no inherited debt because that’s not how debt works. You can’t just palm it off to someone else against their will. It remains the responsibility of whoever took it out, in this case the UK government.

      If the UK government wants to OFFER something in NEGOTIATION in return for Scotland taking on some of its debt, that’s another matter. But as a simple fact of law, Scotland owns absolutely none of that debt. Not one penny. You can whine about that as much as you like but it won’t stop being true.

    306. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Somerled’s post at 12.21 is highly offensive (and I am not easily offended). Please will you consider a deletion. Thanks”

      Deleted. For future reference, please use the Contact form for such requests, as I’m much more likely to see it there than in comments.

    307. Saffron Robe says:

      Excellent explanatory comment Stuart regarding the UK’s debt. I thought as much but couldn’t have expressed it so clearly and concisely.

    308. David A. says:

      It’s ridiculous how much they hate this site considering the effort put into supporting independence and holding the media to account.

    309. David A. says:

      The saddest part of all is that this site often looks like what people THINK journalism is (research, investigation, sources, all the good stuff…) but in reality I doubt ever is by any kind of majority.



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