Lessons in journalism
Fresh from being embarrassed over a ridiculous smear story this week about someone complaining to the police about the use of a well-known political phrase by a Wings commenter, Tom Gordon of the Herald went on quite the attack yesterday.
The thread, which contains a number of basic factual errors about events*, continued for several more tweets all generally rubbishing our scoop from Friday afternoon and suggesting that no proper journalist (“the rest of us”) would have run the story.
So he must be feeling quite left out this morning.
(We were also contacted by the Scottish Sun about the story, but we’re not yet sure if they’ve run anything. We’ve also spoken to Private Eye, who’d covered our scoop from last month about the resignations of three members of the party’s Finance Committee over Peter Murrell’s refusal to let them examine the books in this week’s issue.)
Panicky damage limitation is already under way by both Tom Gordon and the SNP, who are rubbishing the source of the complaint (eccentric activist Sean Clerkin) as if that will make the missing £600,000 suddenly appear back in the SNP accounts.
(And of course our best pal joined in.)
(While Liz Lloyd, unusually, didn’t want to answer any questions.)
We’re quite sure Police Scotland will rethink their entire inquiry when they hear that the Electoral Commission has previously said “It’s really not within our jurisdiction to look into this kind of thing”.
But of course they won’t do that, because if the money has been spent then it was unquestionably obtained under false pretences, and that’s DEFINITELY a crime, which is why Police Scotland sent two officers from the Financial Investigation Unit round to Clerkin’s house within hours of him giving his initial statement rather than just saying “that’s nice dear” and throwing it straight in the bin.
The SNP has now come up with three or four different stories about where the money went, but none of them get them out of the inconvenient reality that they swore up and down that not a penny of it would be spent until there was a second indyref.
Which is something Tom Gordon knows fine well, because he was the person who wrote the original story in the Herald about it.
And the SNP’s big squawking flap of a response only underlines that:
Because the money wasn’t raised to “set up an independence unit”, whatever that actually means – isn’t the entire SNP supposed to be an “independence unit”? It wasn’t raised to “make other preparations for a referendum”, whatever those might be. And it wasn’t meant to be used for vague unspecified “independence-related campaigning” in a year in which there absolutely definitely won’t be an independence referendum.
(Also, the party’s previous attempts to wave the story away involved the then-treasurer angrily insisting none of it had been spent at all and every penny was still available.)
And we now know that the current plan was to rebadge ordinary staff wages for 2021 as in fact being the “Referendum Appeal Fund”, so that it could be “accounted for” in next year’s books and the whole mess neatly whitewashed. But it’s too late for that.
The fact is that the money is spent, readers. It isn’t in the party’s accounts and political parties aren’t allowed to just hide over half a million quid in a secret cupboard and keep it off the books. The fundraiser cash has gone away. But the story isn’t going to.
——————————————————————————–
* (1) Gordon has no idea what Clerkin actually said to the police, or whether all of it came from Wings. We don’t either.
(2) Nobody told Wings anything about seeing “a police car” at the house. Our source, who was NOT Clerkin, told us very specifically that officers had gone to Sturgeon and Murrell’s house to question them about the issue. We have no idea if they went there in a car or a van or on foot or on horseback or on skateboards or on penny-farthings.
(3) The police did NOT “deny a formal investigation” at any point. Indeed, they appear to now have officially confirmed it to several newspapers, and we’ll be contacting them on Monday to ask why they refused to confirm it to us. Maybe we didn’t use the special secret real-journalist password that Tom knows.
(4) We’re not aware of the SNP actually denying that the police spoke to Sturgeon and Murrell. “The SNP has no knowledge of the investigation” is a carefully-vague phrase that reeks of the farcical distinctions both Sturgeon and Murrell made to the Salmond inquiry about which things were party matters and which were government ones.
When did Tom Gordon become an SNP supporting hack?
Things change. Deal with it
“Things change. Deal with it”
Fraud law hasn’t changed.
Serious question then: Is Tom Gordon a member of the SNP?
@Stuart Campbell 9.42 I don’t believe anyone has said it has.
Let’s hope this leads to the answers about where the funds have been spent.
Police Scotland doing a Tom Cruise
SHOW ME THE MONAAAYYYYY!!
What will Police Scotland be “instructed” to do?
They will be told to be diligent and spend months taking evidence and to then hand it over to to a diligent Procurator who will spend months considering the evidence before finding that it is insufficient to prosecute.
“What money”
“Fraud law hasn’t changed.”
These laws don’t change year on year. What does change is who exactly criminal law in Scotland is applied to. It is applied to small troublesome folk now with the intention of bankrupting them.
One of the Lord Advocate’s most senior law officers resigned in high dudgeon from Boris Johnston’s government about a year ago over the proroguing of Parliament.
He came north again and advises our Parliament instead. Was that a good move sir?…..really?
Listening to the Fabiani Inquiry, our parliament may as well be prorogued. Permanently prorogued.
Tom Gordon is protecting the Union, not the Murrells.
And when will people start to realise when they say ‘they’re conspiracy theories’, most people just think ‘aye, so ye’r lying then’.
The CT badge has run it’s course, the liars need to come up with a new catch phrase.
But the good news is the SNP can define this new ‘unit’ they set up – maybe it will be in one of their Notes from that respective Meeting…….oh wait….
And I would spend 500 grand
and I would spend 500 more
just to be the party that hides 500 grand
Till the cops come knocking on yer door!
I notice the Clegg article has been pulled. Was there a complaint or were there too many revealing comments?
Despite the obvious SNP corruption, many people are still going to vote SNP 1 and Alba 2.
There should be zero SNP MSPs after all the lies & corruption and people burying their heads in the sand. If you vote for it, then you condone it, despite what you tell yourself. How many will wheesht for Indy? The SNP will only care about total votes cast and number of elected MSPs.
What do you make of it Stu and what do you recommend people do ?
Guess who’s going to jail ?
“Karma, karma , karma wee evil one”.
I’ll get my coat.
P.S. Tom gordon must feel like a total tit . Good.
“I don’t believe anyone has said it has.”
Then what’s your fucking point, caller?
“I notice the Clegg article has been pulled.”
Which Clegg article?
ahundredthidiot @9:43
“Serious question then: Is Tom Gordon a member of the SNP”
Wrong question…
Is Tom Gordon a member of the Unionist press? If so, why is he a cheerleader for Sturgeon’s SNP all of a sudden?
In saying that, Tom Gordon appears to be to journalism what Michael Fish was to meteorological forecasting, so if he claims there’s no hurricane predicted in relation to SNP finances, then Sturgeon and Murrell best get their twitchy bums down the storm shelter pronto…
This is sad news to be honest and makes a majority of independence folk a lot less like likely at the election. Alba is pointless without the SNP. Wings has a habit of writing hard truths. Well the hard truth is you have to vote SNP first ALBA second to make any impact.
@Stuart Campbell 9.58 my fucking point is that no-one has said that fraud law has changed.
“my fucking point is that no-one has said that fraud law has changed.”
I gave you a chance. Piss off, troll.
Balgowan
‘things change’ – yes, the money has disappeared
‘deal with it’ – hopefully, Police Scotland will.
Fraud is serious. It can lead to jail time.
Jail time. Indoors, all the time, with other bad people.
Squeaky bum time for a few people and given NS habit of gleefully throwing people under the nearest bus, if my fingers were anywhere near this potential fraud, I would be taking care of myself.
What’s the best outcome for the Britnats?
I’d suggest damage Nicla and the SNP to the point where there is no supermajority, but if possible keep her in place.
To that end, this scandal is going to drag on and on, like the Scot Gov Inquiry.
Unlikley that there will be a definitive, ‘guilty – lightbulb’ moment that would ensure the decent (but so far rather spineless) SNP elected Reps can sack her and concentrate on Indy.
Best way to counter, from an Indy point of view – identify the good guys and gals standing on the Constituency vote and actively campaign for them. They are going to need all the help they can get.
Both votes Yes.
Stu I wouldn’t waste any more time with Balgowan, he’s obviously a f@cking retard, I’m pissing myself laughing here 🙂
It has simply converted from a liquid asset into an illiquid asset.
The 600,000 has simply changed state like water into ice. Better hope it does not change to the gaseous state and disappear like a puff of smoke.
How long does it take to sell a house in an exclusive part of edinburgh?
Brilliant Stuart
You’ve just out journo’d the worst journo in Scotland. That green eyed monster must be raging beyond any form of control by now.
Hat tip young mad & bloody well done. Thanks for the Sunday morning belly laugh. Needed that.
You’d think they’d learn but no?
Quick, shoot the messenger. Absolutely nothing to see here
Clegg had an article in Saturday’s grain I am sure. I Read 2 sentences and then I just faded away into the nothingness
The simple fact is that if the money hasn’t been spent on anything else, the SNP would be providing proof of that right now rather than simply saying it hasn’t bee spent.
No proof = no money left.
TheSNPLeftMe @9:50
“a diligent Procurator who will spend months considering the evidence before finding that it is insufficient to prosecute.”
COPFS – Crime Only Pays For Some
Alright for “some”…
If the union realises that NS is a liability,ie she cannot stop Alba, I hope, they will ditch her for someone with more clout
Re:
ahundredthidiot says:
4 April, 2021 at 9:43 am
Serious question then: Is Tom Gordon a member of the SNP?
I don’t know, it does seem that Nicola Sturgeon is favoured by some British media
Perhaps she is useful to the British & they would be sad to see Nicola ‘now is not the time’ Sturgeon go
“The fact is that the money is spent, readers. It isn’t in the party’s accounts and political parties aren’t allowed to just hide over half a million quid in a secret cupboard and keep it off the books. The fundraiser cash has gone away. But the story isn’t going to.”
I am predicting that the next line of defense will be…
The 600k in funds have only been ‘temporarily spent’, ‘temporarily re-tasked’ to more urgent areas, to minimize overdraft costs you see, and will soon be restored back within that impregnable ringfence thingy.
Laws like taxes are for the ‘little people’. There world is a moral free zone.
Their attempt to virtue signal is a cover for their true face. There is nothing behind their mask.
Well done Stuart,
I noticed his sh**estirring a couple of days ago. Short in and out anti independence quips always pushing the negative waiting for bites.
I just followed your excellent advice.
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!!!!
Simples really.
Another day, another example of the unionist establishment closing ranks around Nicola Sturgeon as she and her fanatical allies concentrate all their energies on really vicious attacks on real independence supporters.
Unbelievable that so many people can be so naive.
I come from a very unionist family, my brother who is an arch-unionist is laughing himself silly at how gullible so many on our side are, he says it’s so obvious she’ll never do anything.
The media and especially the ‘press’ are basically owned by Tory supporters and donors. They have enough information to really go for the SNP and reveal the corruption and downright incompetence but realise, that at this time, they do not need to as Independence is miles away despite what some may think.
If the realistic prospect of Independence does raise its head in the very near future they will go on full on attack.
All the dubious E Mails, WhatsApp messages, phone conversations etc will have been garnered by GCHQ or their American ‘friends’ to be used when required. Some may think that this is far fetched but those in control will not relinquish their power. Look at how the Murrell’s are behaving!
I am not a lawyer but I have a feeling that if the money was solicited for a purpose other than than specified, and subsequently spent on another purpose then that is clearly fraud.
If the money was collected for a specific purpose and then used for another purpose then I think that would be embezzlement
So lawyers bills? Money paid to Alex Salmond?
How much does that total?
Daily Record has article that Nicla failed to record a meeting with a property developer who donated £100,000 to the SNP.
And this company has since had 7 council blocks overturned after appealing to Scot Gov.
Folk were wondering why Judy Murray’s house in Bridge of Allan was sold for such a reasonable amount.
Perhaps her long delayed property developement scheme in honour of Andy – that kept hitting problems because is was on greenbelt land, might be the area to consider.
Likewise all the landbanked greenbelt countryside just north of Perth. Initially landbanked by Eaglestar.
Given the amount of flyovers being built in the middle of farmland, as they duel carraigeway the A9 – looks like Swinney will be intervening to ensure massive house building in the area. Hey ho.
I’ll stick to what i’ve believed all along. As Rev points out very confidently, & correctly imo, the money has been spent. But i believe they’ve been promised it from some yet unknown woke source, in payment for pushing through certain agendas/policies.
And to all that i will add that i wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it transpired the UKGov were behind (somewhere) the woke lobbying of the Murrells & Co. Westminster (UKGovs) have a history of paying “lobby groups”.
Time will tell!
Liz Lloyd tweets limiting who can reply
So @SundayTimesSco say “unconfirmed rumours” when they were told clearly yesterday that no such visit took place, didn’t happen. That makes them false rumours….like much of the rest of the smear around this.
Ok Liz, we’ll just take your word for it and banish it from our minds
@ Bob Costello,
Little known quirk of Scotlands criminal law – whether its plain theft, theft by fraudulent scheme, or theft by embezzlement – its all theft and the Fiscal can alter the words ‘fraud’ to ’embezzlement’ at will on the charge sheet in a way that’s not possible for other crimes.
Makes sense when you think about it.
I never ever buy news papers. I think most people are starting to realize Scotland is better Independent and I miss on the marches “Tory Scum Out” I do hope its brought back its simple and to the point. And the more the Press and SNP mock or smear the Alba Party and Mr Salmond the more people will flock to the Alba Party, excellent poll today in The Times which I’m sure Wings will post.
Was reading today that 2017 was the first time since 1987 that Alex Salmond did not hold an elected position in the UK or Scottish Parliament.
First time in 30 years… and within a few short months of that
(late 2017) the wheels were set in motion to stitch up Salmond.
Not a coincidence obviously with hindsight.
Also who was it who so badly misplayed her hand in 2017 that 21 MPs of 56 MPs were wiped out? One of whom was Salmond. It was Nicola Sturgeon.
You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to start to wonder about all of this.
The cash has been used. Now the exercise is to try and cover that up by any means.
It’s still fraud.
Looking good to achieve the target – we’ll find out in just over one month!!!
OK. Someone tell me if my galloping dementia is now sprinting but….is there not a civil case going on somewhere where a donor is asking for their money back? Or is that just Sean Clerkin/Wing’s mind control working on me?
Daisy Walker
As you say this will probably damage the Sturgeons but it won’t necessarily damage the SNP as long as it can be blamed on the rogue leadership.
In any case it just handed Alba a fistful of aces to play with.
You’re doing a brilliant job on this, Wings.
Let’s not for get what that 600k represents. It represents the hopes and dreams of thousands and thousands of ordinary people. A lot of those people are relatively poor.
I’ve never seen anything like this in politics. There seems to be a complete absence of conscience in everything they do.
Of course, this will go nowhere. They have total power over the judiciary and everything. Everyone will just turn away from the story because it’ll become so tedious and exhausting to pick the lies apart.
In a few weeks they’ll say this story proves how honest they are.
Re Douglas at 10:15
Douglas, were you born anywhere on the island of Great Britain? If so, you are British. It is perfectly fine to want independence and call yourself Scottish but you are British too so attacking the British or Brits (as our Irish friends say) is just stupid as you are attacking your fellow countrymen and women.
” is there not a civil case going on somewhere where a donor is asking for their money back?”
David Henry.
Some definitions that may be useful:
Ring fenced funding-
Collins dictionary:
‘To ring-fence a grant or fund means to put restrictions on it, so that it can only be used for a particular purpose.’
Electoral Commission guide on new parties:
Financial reporting
requirements and
responsibilities
Registered political parties
‘Under PPERA, registered political parties must comply with rules on donations and spending and reporting requirements.
These rules include continuous donation and loan controls, spending controls during regulated elections, annual accounts reporting and annual registration renewal.
These rules are to ensure the integrity and transparency of party political finance. If you don’t follow them, you may be subject to fines or other enforcement action.
In some cases, this can include a referral for criminal prosecution.
The officers of a registered political party have significant responsibilities, so it’s important that you understand these fully before you register with us.’
It would seem to me that the electoral commission would have a role to play and potentially HMRC – I wonder if the fact that these are UK institutions, not Scottish, may have an effect.
Hatuey says:
I’ve never seen anything like this in politics. There seems to be a complete absence of conscience in everything they do.
You just defined politicians.
The responses of the dead tree press hacks in Scotland to the missing £600K indy fund, much like their abject failures to address many other SNP related stories (including but not limited to: TRA entryism, the long term abuse of Cherry and McAlpine amongst others, the institutional failures of the SNP NEC and party’s internal “democracy”, analysis and critique of the reforms of GRA and the HCB, etc., etc.), demonstrate the malaise within what passes for MSM in our poor benighted country.
It is perhaps too easy to attribute these manifest failures to the (lack of) quality and low voltage nature of many of the practitioners like Tom Gordon, Clegg, MacKay et al., or to point out that there is definitely “something of the night” about certain individuals like David Leask. Let’s face it, the prospect of a Woodward and Bernstein exposé emerging from any of the unionist dominated Scots titles is as close to zero as Douglas Ross is to being taken seriously.
You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to wonder why the staunchly British nationalist MSM in Scotland hasn’t laid a glove on Sturgeon, or made any effort to do their actuals jobs and submit her and her party to the ordinary levels of scrutiny that we ought to expect of any free press in a modern democracy.
The answer isn’t hard to discern of course: our national MSM in Scotland is a poor excuse for the kind of vibrant, crusading media acting in the public interest to hold the establishment to account and speak truth to power. Rather it is a wan, etiolated husk of an institution populated largely by second or third raters, dependant on the very government it should be holding to account for its daily bread because it can’t support itself on sales, and content to run puff pieces epitomising lazy journalism and frequently consisting largely of regurgitated party political press releases.
We deserve better. Interesting that Alba pointedly included bloggers in its early broadcasts. Here’s to more of that!
If the Alba party is polling at 6% does this mean they will be included in Tv debates.
We have seen Sturgeon is more than willing to inflict enormous collateral damage on the Independence movement to destroy one man.
We saw it with the original government level stitch-up, we saw it when that escalated to the judicial review, we saw it again when that escalated to the criminal trial, at the blocking of the public inquiries, and now by making the whole independence movement cut-off of its nose to spite it’s face… over, yet again, just one solitary man she so desperately wants to destroy.
So looking back is it not now very possible that throwing 21 MP under the bus in 2017 was the first attempt to take Salmond out, or at least make him vulnerable for what else was coming.
The only thing I can say for sure is that the whole seven years of Sturgeon’s leadership has been one gigantic clusterfuck.
Stoker- do you mean possible sources like drug manufacturers of puberty blockers for example?
Daisy Walker says.
Folk were wondering why Judy Murray’s house in Bridge of Allan was sold for such a reasonable amount.
Reply
Daisy I don’t mean this as gossip, but I did read that Nicola bought that house for herself & her French girlfriend.
Can anyone verify that for me?
I live in NZ so I’m going on what I read. Mostly on twitter.
“Penny farthings” aw ffs hahaha ?
@ Stoker
Aye, that’s a possibility. You’ll recall the likes of SpireHealthcare dropping big wonga to Jo Swinson / LibDems.
If they were prepared to chuck their money away on political deadbeats like that, would they not have an interest in financing individuals or parties that actually were in stronger position of power and influence to push their agenda.
Somerled
I remember watching – or rather listening – to that british shill david tenant narrating a nature documentary. Everything sunny, and positive, and graceful, was british. everything dark, and wet, and dirty, was Scottish.
And something tells me you don’t see the Irish as your ‘friends’.
This site is for Scottish Nationalism, not british nationalism.
(although, many of us do like to slag off the latter)
Clavie Cheil says:
4 April, 2021 at 9:41 am
When did Tom Gordon become an SNP supporting hack?
Ah, now there’s a good question.
You may remember Tom Gordon’s disgustingly dishonest, would-make-North-Korea-blush poison pen articles on the Alex Salmond trial, which many of us assumed was motivated by bog standard yoonacy.
But Tam knows full well there’s something not kosher about the missing money – he reported on the ref.scot fundraiser in 2017.
Yet here we have a supposed journalist, covering the Scottish politics beat, who is ostentatiously uninterested in a story about a major scandal in Scottish politics. Sus. Like if you walked into a local shop in Royston Vasey, and the local people announced, unprompted, “we didn’t burn him!”
In Fahrenheit 451, the job of firemen wasn’t to put out fires, but to start them. Winston’s job in the Ministry of Truth wasn’t about uncovering truth. Can you dig it?
A note to the SNP management and actually for their own good I not a unionist sniper at work , I don’t want the SNP damaged beyond repair until after the election , ALBA need the SNP to be in place in order to further the political ambitions of ALBA , they will be used as a stepping stone .
Whoever is directing traffic in SNP HQ one person or part of the inner circle they need to be removed immediately, they obviously haven’t learned from past catastrophic mistakes the mistakes going back to whoever had the brainwave about removing Alex from the scene , not just removing him but jailing him.
Untold damage has been done and unless this is stopped right now the SNP as a party will go the way Labour went that’s into oblivion they will have done what the English government couldn’t do they will bury Independence for the next decade ,
The only savour at the present time is ALBA and that’s unless it’s too late , the fixation by the SNP of being the only game in town has hobbled any other party gaining meaningful support , the management were warned time and again to change direction this is down to the leadership and that’s been woefully lacking since Sturgeon assumed the leadership , a catalog of failures .
In other news today…
Anger as £650m contract for SNP donor approved after Nicola Sturgeon meeting she failed to declare
link to archive.is
Alba fundraiser at £13,000 of the £50,000 target.
Sturgeon can hide it no longer.
How can she get out of this one?
Her stooge hacks at the Herald have also been exposed.
It is clearly fraud.
All that needs to be proved is that the 600,000 was used for the benefit of another.
What else is she hiding?
Ha ha, just got Green News pamphlet for Spring 2021 , no mention whatsoever about independence.
If the SNP pay (just taking one hypothetical, randomly selected, employee) Peter Murrell’s wages and the 600k in ‘not-ringfenced’ funds were actually ‘woven in’ with all the other SNP funds, then it will undeniably be the case that a fair old chunk of the 600k (given how big his salary is versus the whole SNP payroll) ended up ‘woven into’ Peter Murrell’s bank account. (I wonder if it a joint account with his wife.)
Anyhoo, thinking about it, that not a good look for the FM’s hubby, and CEO of the SNP, who then denied access to the SNP’s accounts to the Finance and Audit committee, three of whom then resigned.
No, not a good look at all.
@Lady Lion – “So @SundayTimesSco say “unconfirmed rumours” when they were told clearly yesterday that no such visit took place, didn’t happen. That makes them false rumours….like much of the rest of the smear around this.” Liz Lloyd on Twitter
That’s fabulous, Lady Lion. Silence from everyone and then Liz Lloyd pops her head-up to say: “it never happened and it’s all just a smear”.
Some people have honesty and credibility and some just don’t. Liz Lloyd falls firmly into the latter category I’m afraid.
If she had to deal with the London press she wouldn’t last a day.
If the dosh was spent on superinjunctions, would mentioning the purchase of them be prohibited by the injunctions themselves?
We all know the MSM will attack the Murrells and the Independence movement in the lead up to the Election.
Fully expect much more of the same but honestly what kind of idiot is PM? Refusing to hand over the books for audit was only ever going to provide a red flag.
Why provide an own goal?
What kind of qualifications does that guy have and what has he been doing all these years?
Robert Graham hopefully ALBA 2 as a vote strategy would still f go arner some seats for Alex and get some genuine Indy supporters into Holyrood.
Worst thing will be if people get a unnerved enough that they just don’t vote!
It was financial fraud that they got Al Capone on .
Sorry- ‘would still garner enough votes’
Using my phone and it does odd things sometimes.
Just been listening to radio scotlands review of the sunday papers.
Not ONE WORD about the subject our host writes on here.
@somerled 10.39 am
“Douglas, were you born anywhere on the island of Great Britain? If so, you are British. It is perfectly fine to want independence and call yourself Scottish but you are British too so attacking the British or Brits (as our Irish friends say) is just stupid as you are attacking your fellow countrymen and women.”
I think you’ll find many Scots refuse to identify themselves as British, or to identify with the British nationalist project. The fact that we have (pro tem) no choice but to have a British passport, unless we plan to emigrate and take up citizenship elsewhere, doesn’t make us feel “British” except in the sense that we were born and live in the British Isles. The term has no more meaning to most of us than a Dane saying he’s from Scandinavia, or an Icelander saying he’s nordic.
It’s not attacking anyone to say you don’t identify as British, nor in my view is it wrong to point out that anyone in Scotland who prioritises their British identity, and who doesn’t support Scottish independence, is not in any real sense Scottish, because they relegate Scotland to the status of a glorified county: they are people of North Britain, inhabitants of a colourful part of the country they chose to identify with which has a colourful history and a funny accent.
For the present we may legally have to state our nationality as British, but it seems as foreign to me as it must have seemed foreign for many Czechs, Slovenes, Romanians etc. to identify themselves as Austro-Hungarians before 1918, or Finns to identify themselves as Russians prior to 1917.
To paraphrase Derek Bateman I think it was: if Britain is your country you are British. If Scotland is your country you are Scottish. If you don’t believe Scotland should be an independent country, you’re not Scottish in any meaningful sense.
Just heard on Classic FM news that Nicola wants the “not proven” option looked at with a view to removing it, presumably to get more successful rape and sexual assault convictions. Interesting.
Mac says:
4 April, 2021 at 10:16 am
“I am predicting that the next line of defense will be…
The 600k in funds have only been ‘temporarily spent’, ‘temporarily re-tasked’ to more urgent areas, to minimize overdraft costs you see, and will soon be restored back within that impregnable ringfence thingy.”
In the Post OIffice we called that misappropriation of funds and subpostmaseters were fired for doing it. We had one who used his PO money to pay a large bill, with every intention of paying the money back. Unfortunately the money went out on the day the auditors did a spot check. they were lenient and gave a warning – until they went back a 2nd time and the same thing had happened. Lost his business and was lucky there was no prosecution.
Tenruh says:
Alba fundraiser at £13,000 of the £50,000 target.
– thanks for the reminder, off to make a donation.
Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?
(I’m not claiming credit for this query as I read it on Twitter made by a very credible Indy campaigner who can remain nameless until they wish to reveal themselves here.)
But of course it’s all a British State conspiracy……..
RutlandRules says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:06 am
“Just heard on Classic FM news that Nicola wants the “not proven” option looked at with a view to removing it, presumably to get more successful rape and sexual assault convictions. Interesting.”
I would imagine that all that would do would increase the cases, assuming jury trials still allowed, of not guilty.
How do they get away with pissing around with our laws when they haven’t ever mentioned these things in a manifesto?
As someone said earlier. Tom Gordon must feel like a tit. Not only a tit but a lying tit IMHO. Not even got the balls to back track, instead tries to cover his tracks. Well done Stu for persevering
But of course it’s all just a British State conspiracy…..
ahundredthidiot – I am as patriotic for Scotland as I am for Britain. I see all nationalism as selfish and divisive. I view this site as an advocate for Scottish Independence, not nationalism.
BTW i studied at Dundee Uni which has thousands of Irish students and still include some as my friends today. I also love U2, the Pogues, The Cranberries and Ash but i probably disagree with all on politics.
My comment was based on those Irish who are anti English & anti GB, like many Indy voters (but thankfully a minority)
This Tom Cook reminds me of Lurch from the Adams family. He is so grey even his complexion.
I found him to be an odious man with the questions he put to Alex. This type of journalism wouldn’t be accepted here in New Zealand
Hope you like your new flag…
link to archive.is
2nd generation Irish who’s families have lived here for 50 years plus
still say they are Irish.
Would you suggest an Irishman born during British occupation should today
call themselves British?
When form filling I never concede to be part of the
Deadly Empire that killed right across the globe in
search of riches for the rich.
First thing I establish on foreign holidays is the fact I’m Scottish.
It instantly gave me a closer relationship with some French couples
when over there and an Italian waiter In Rome shook my hand knowing
about our fight to stay European unlike the insulting English stance.
somerled says:
4 April, 2021 at 10:39 am
I was born in the country of Scotland. I’m Scottish. If I wasn’t I would “self ID” as Scottish and could probably claim that calling me Brtish was a hate crime.
Between the opinion of some unctuous Twitter reply guy called Tom Gordon who apparently writes for a newspaper and who says this is a non story, and the world class investigative journalists at Private Eye who say, hmm, this is rather interesting, I think I’ll trust Private Eye thanks.
Whether it’s polling at 3% or 6%, one thing’s for sure, with the penetration of SNP/Sturgeonite influence into Scottish civil society, institutions and media, Alba is headed for “Scottish Falun Gong” status at breakneck speed.
Meanwhile.
Craig and Charlie, who have helped fund our annual rallys in Freedom Square, are calling for a second vote for the ALBA PARTY.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Mhairi Hinge says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
Hope you like your new flag…
link to archive.is
Reply.
That flag is disgusting. It’s got to be a joke. If not the SNP are in La La land. It’s truly horrendous.
Minekiller
No, the centre of the SNP are entirely capable of their own conspiracy, however, whitehall does seem to enjoy pulling a wee string here or there to help keep Scotland on Her knees.
Somerled
I bet you’ve also got a ‘black friend’ so couldn’t possibly be racist. ‘I like U2’ – what are you….ten?
Well, take your ten your old british arse and away invade a sovereign Country for a barrel of oil, why dont you, it is Sunday after all.
Mhairi Hinge says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
Hope you like your new flag…
Ha! That’s actually no bad. It’s customary for these kinds of articles to include an anagram of APRIL FOOL somewhere in the text though. They should’ve polished it a wee bit, you’re supposed to start off sober and reel the reader in with progressively more ridiculous details.
Don’t know if our host ever wrote an April Fool spoof for the wonderfully boisterous and fondly remembered Amiga Power magazine, but this kind of thing used to be part of the fun of 90’s journalism.
“To paraphrase Derek Bateman I think it was: if Britain is your country you are British. If Scotland is your country you are Scottish. If you don’t believe Scotland should be an independent country, you’re not Scottish in any meaningful sense.”
That’s a very good point Andy, and one I feel strongly about, if you feel your country is Britain then say it don’t be ashamed but don’t call yourself a Scot or worse still a “Proud Scot”, you can’t be both IMO because to be British means denying the existence of Scotland as a nation it’s that simple to me
I consider myself British in the geographical sense only which is no different from saying I’m a European
Good to here that Private Eye have taken up the scent.
I look forward to their next issue.
Hopefully it is before the election.
The Murrell first family is not a good example.
Dear oh dear the smell that surrounds Nicola and her coterie of control becomes ever more acrid, ever more choking.
The Saintly Nicola Sturgeon is being exposed for exactly what she is. A front, a sham, a charlatan and someone whose behaviours are absolutely foul. This missing money is just another example of her absolutely malign leadership.
No doubt our patron saint will have no knowledge of the missing money. Nothing to do with her and will never ever ever have spoken a word about party finances with her chief executive husband Peter.
But let us be clear, the missing money was money given by donors in good faith to fund a referendum campaign. It was not Sturgeon, or her husband’s right to spend it on paying Murrell salary, Alan Smith’s legal fees or whatever it was spent on.
Once again the Rev has brought this outrageous misappropriation of funds to our attention failing which very few if any would ever have known about the missing funds and the rock bottom state of party finances.
Nor would we have known about all of the dirty dealings trying to fit up Alex Salmond.
Sturgeon quite frankly has taken a once great party and done everything she can to ruin it. Indeed she’s actually calling to maintain dozens of unionist MSPs in Parliament by calling for a simple majority.
Maybe now we’re getting a view as to why the now Sherriff Olga Pasportkinov found three serious complaints against a 28 year old solicitor who promptly then left the legal profession.
But the SNP is not Nicola Sturgeon, her husband and the close coterie of control. They will be gone soon and the key for the moment is to get as many SNP – Alba seats as possible and then sort things out after the election.
Mhairi Hinge says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
Hope you like your new flag…
this is the 4th of April, that was posted on Scotland in Unions page 3 days prior 😉
In The Scotsman its saying.The Proclaimers: Legendary Edinburgh rock duo announce they are backing the Alba party, fantastic news well done lads.
Effigy says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:16 am
2nd generation Irish w
Reply
I have lived in New Zealand for over 50 years. Came here in my twenties. I’m 100% Scot & will be to the day I die.
However I respect my new country & would never do anything to undermine it. My son is a Kiwi & he is proud of the country he was born in.
He in his heart & soul is a Kiwi, me in my heart I’m still a Scot.
You can take the Scot out of Scotland , but you can’t take Scotland out of the Scot.
Just been sent a video of loyalists rioting on the
Streets of Belfast.
They are attacking police cars without any attempt
to hide their identity.
Throwing missiles at their windshields from a few feet away
pushing shopkeepers waste bins in front of them.
The police just drive very slowly blocking the road hoping to clear them away.
They have no interest is apprehending any of them no matter what crime is committed.
They wave their Union Jacks as a sign that Westminster supporters are beyond the law.
Boy will the thugs and constabulary be having a bad day when Irish unification unfolds.
Hugh Wallace @ 11.11
‘Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?’
Because it has to be accounted for in your tax returns/financial statement. Claiming publicly that you raised £600k for it not to appear in you annual financial return to HMRC and the Electoral Commission would be one of the stupidest moves of all time.
It’s entirely the point of this whole investigation.
Simply put, it’s called fraud.
2014 was a question – are you British or are you Scottish.
Fortunately, since then, many have had the courage to cross the Rubicon.
I respect those who say they are British. I do not have a great deal of time for those who say they are Scottish and British – they are just delusional.
Andy Ellis – That sounds like more identity politics. Do you believe men can self ID as women too ?
You’re British but you only identify as Scottish, ignoring that Scotland is part of Britain, in geography as well as history. I choose to call myself Scottish, British and European.
How other countries view themselves is irrelevant. Aren’t we all Europeans anyway? How can you say you want independence but still want EU giving you orders ? Do you actually know what independent means? Why don’t you just admit you hate the English?
I have no idea who Master Bateman was but he and you don’t get to decide if i love my country. People like you and Alex Salmond may enjoy gambling with peoples lives but its a risk i am not prepared to take.
@somerled
Many people born on the island of Britain hold Irish passports by choice. This has increased significantly in the last few years as they are Irish and therefore retain EU Citizenship.
I know a few people who will only have an Irish passport until they can have Irish/Scottish dual nationality.
Do you know that under the Good Friday Agreement anyone with a Grandparent on the Island of Ireland can obtain an Irish Passport. It is not just Ireland but Northern Ireland. Now as a loyal Unionist you have a dilemma – Are Northern Ireland Citizens British or Irish – the correct answer is they are both.
Now piss off.
Kiwilassie says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:21 am
Mhairi Hinge says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:15 am
Hope you like your new flag…
link to archive.is
Reply.
That flag is disgusting. It’s got to be a joke. If not the SNP are in La La land. It’s truly horrendous.
Reply, but it provides a convenient cover for where the £600k went!
Liz Lloyd clearly knows what’s going on. I think that some newspaper editors should be pumping her ..for infomation.
Calling all screenwriters—Hollywood studio executives are already circling in anticipation of the definitive treatment of this very Scottish epic.
Meanwhile, Warky&Co have already submitted their docudrama pitch to the BBC, so you might as well forget about gaining a hearing there.
“Penny Farthings” Hahahaha
“the key for the moment is to get as many SNP – Alba seats as possible and then sort things out after the election.”
That won’t work Willie and is just a recipe for trouble. The MSP’s vote for FM and if Sturgeon makes it to the election that will be her.
If she doesn’t make it to the election then I can think of two possible candidates.
Meanwhile back in reality, still haven’t met a single person giving their second vote to Alba.
If the funds raised are sitting in a “Referendum Appeal Fund” bank account somewhere then it should be very straightforward to produce a copy of the bank statement, or a certificate from the bank. Why the balance in that account isn’t shown in the party accounts would be a secondary, follow on question.
On the other hand, if the funds raised are not in sitting in a separate bank account then those who contributed are fully entitled to know why, and where they are, since the whole purpose of “ring fencing” was surely to stop the funds from being spent on general party activities.
References to the money having “already helped us…” simply confuses, and causes the suspicious among us to wonder if it has all been it has been spent already…
If there’s no fire then it shouldn’t be difficult to blow away the smoke.
OK – hands up on the flag. It looks like they got me. Oops.
The clue (which I finally spotted) is in the name of the consultant at the bottom of the alleged documents, “Donaldson MacEwen & Young”.
@highseastim
I would be surprised if you did in Kent.
@somerled 11.33am
No, of course I don’t believe men can self identify as women. Nobody sane does.
Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t particularly want to be part of the EU: they squandered my support as a result of their treatment of Greece post financial crisis, and their failure to act against Spain WRT their repression in Catalonia and failure to sanction the actions of regressive regimes in Hungary and Poland. Given we will not be members, I’d actually advocate for a Norway style arrangement, but I suspect the majority of Scots will prefer to apply for full EU membership.
It’s a lazy trope accusing others who disagree with you of hating the English. It says much more about you, and your inability to form a cogent counter argument, still less present any evidence, than it says about my original point. My paternal grandmother was English. My wife is English. It’d be news to them and my English family that I hate the English. I lived for 25 years in England and gained my undergraduate degree from an English university. The English are a fine people, but they have their own destiny, and we have ours.
You’re just another etiolated “proud Scot but….”. It is indeed hard to free slaves from chains they revere. Sounds like you’re just another “house slave” scared to risk your benefits. Stun us with another.
Is Scottish Nationalism good but English Nationalism bad? It seems to me the English have been remarkably tolerant of the hatred and bile spouted at them by some Scottish people. I often wonder when this tolerance might change to something else.
I see that the Herald have now capitulated and are now covering the story.
Tom Gordon didn’t write it though.
Is he on the naughty step?
highsteam
Let me introduce you to my family……There is about 20 of us and we have always voted SNP in all voting.
I now have around half confirmed as SNP 1 ALBA 2.
The other half will take a bit more time, but I’m optimistic.
Do try to get out more.
Stand Together SNP 1 ALBA 2
(Justice can still take it’s course with any alleged fraud)
You’re British but you only identify as Scottish, ignoring that Scotland is part of Britain, in geography as well as history. I choose to call myself Scottish, British and European.
Nobody is ignoring Scotland & England share the same island that’s just bloody obvious, and as such much of our history is intertwined that’s inevitable but it doesn’t make us the same, if you believe Britain is a nation then Scotland can’t be neither can England but then most English are happy to identify as British because they see Britain as an extension if their greatness.
Mhairi Hinge 11:42
No. The new flag will be a pretty little rainbow.
And we’ll all hold hands together and sing ‘praise be the great leader!’ every day at noon.
It will be such happy times.
” highseastim says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:40 am
Meanwhile back in reality, still haven’t met a single person giving their second vote to Alba.”
================================================
You need to get out more Mister Cave Troll.
On topic this time.
I am informed that Fraud Investigations take an eternity and more often than not there is an out of Court settlement. Being cynical I can see this being dragged out for months if not longer and an out of Court settlement being announced in the small print some time next year. We have a rotten to the core Lord Advocate.
With regards to the Police Investigation, the worry for me is, that with the level of corruption between Sturgeon, the SNP, Scots Government and the COPFS.
The Police will send their investigation results to the Procurator Fiscal who will decide whether there is a case to answer, if their even is a case or whether it is in the public interest.
We all believe there is a case and it needs answering and it most definitely is in the public interest.
But will the PF (Wolffe) interfere?
TheSNPLeftMe
ahundredthidiot
One of you says i can’t be Scottish and British but the other says its okay for people in Northern Ireland to be Irish and British if they choose to be. Which is it?
You are all delusional. Independence will never happen. I used to vote SNP and was Yes in 2014 but a couple of years ago, came to my senses and now vote with my head not my heart.
You see yourselves as rebels fighting against the British state but your just sad losers (literally since 2014) sitting playing at your computers shouting “Braveheart” but would shit your pants if the British Army rightly pointed a gun in your treasonous faces. Pathetic cowards.
Now why dont you Piss off to Ireland where you really belong.
Hugh Wallace says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:11 am
Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?
This has been my feeling on all of this all along – there is nor proof they actually raised that much – a bunch of screenshots of their website saying “Amount Raised : 590k” or whatever are literally meaningless.
If they only raised say 10k or whatever, for example, what does that say about support for independence? Saying they raised a ton of cash looks a lot better – until you have to explain where it is of course. There is no way on earth they are suddenly going to say “erm yeah actually we lied about that.”
The newspaper articles today seem to be a classic example of what this site generally goes after – bullsh*t msm stories that take a “story” that doesn’t actually have anything solid to back it up and turn it into a huge story because it suits their aim (sells papers and probably helps the union.)
Given that the general narrative these days is one that is convinced the SNP leadership is completely untrustworthy, corrupt and incompetent, I’m not sure why it’s so inconceivable that they lied about the amount they raised.
”…The SNP has no knowledge of any investigation but will be more than happy to set out the facts should questions be asked of us by any appropriate authority…”
SNP’s very own Finance and Audit Committee… “Can we have access to the Accounts?”
“No”.
No doubt when pressed, the SNP will eventually produce the Accounts with the numbers redacted.
A
Wee Willie…
It’s more a case of Boris’ style of British Nationalism = Good, but any type of sub-British Nationalism, be that Scottish or Welsh = Bad.
There’s nothing more hypocritical than a Brexit-supporting Brit like Boris, standing in front of a Union Flag, decrying Nationalists.
Pot, meet kettle…
Gareth Rose for Scotland on Sunday:-
Headlines
“Cops probe claims of SNP fraud over £600,000
Police told cash raised for new independence vote was misused
…but party says allegation is part of ‘baseless dirty tricks campaign’”
Sorry no link available
@somerled 11.55 am
Used to vote SNP and support Yes my eye! It is to laugh.
Some snivelling British nationalist coward hiding behind anonymity on the world’s most popular pro-indy blog tells pro-indy folk they are treasonous and should have the British army point guns in our faces before pissing off to Ireland where we belong.
What kind of person who was ever a pro-indy voter would come out with that kind of bigotry? Bolt ya rocket!
Back on topic….
Some may worry that this fraud will be brushed under the carpet and that nothing will be done.
It’s too late for that.
You can be sure that everything that the Murrells thought was well hidden is in serious danger of being brought into the light.
How can any honest, self respecting, hard working Scottish person vote for the likes of this Scottish Government that has brought shame on our proud Nation?
Andrew Neil wrote an article in the Daily Mail a few weeks ago after his brush with Lady Dorrian at the Court of Session.
He looked at this simply and boiled it down to the very essence of the problem.
He referred to Sturgeon’s “Storm Troops” as being those who just loudly brushed aside any criticism of Sturgeon.
He identified that the Scottish Press were as good as dead.
Andrew Neil identified the chief-arsehole as James Wolffe and who would argue with that.
A few days later, James Wolffe was called in front of MSP’s by the excellent MSP for Dumbarton. He was very, very displeased at being told what to do by any MSP, let alone one from the Labour Party.
Anyway, he didn’t sound like a “storm troop” to me. Instead he blamed his Law Officers but supported them by saying that they were always impartial and they always got things right.
I remember he repeated AGAIN that if any of the alphabet women were identified by MSP’s then they would feel the full force of his legal storm troops. The MSP from Dumbarton didn’t looked terrified. Good for her.
In view of the number of Mallicious Prosecutions chasing his Law Officers around, Andrew Neil thought that was quite a funny thing to say, and so do I.
Anyway, I wonder who Nicola’s current “storm troops” are. Liz Lloyd is still one of them and we know that. But who else?
Schroedinger’s money
It’s there
And it isn’t
Andy Ellis – I take back what i said about anti english. In your case, i dont think you are but it is true of many of your fellow separatists.
You mention benefits – yes I am worried i would lose my disability benefits and my motability car. How will Indy Scotland pay for those when the working population shrinks due to independence and benefit claims rise and companies leave Scotland and there is little tax revenue?
The SNP and Alba have no realistic plans for what happens if Indyref2 is successful. Its pie in the sky. If you want to convince me everyone in Scotland would be better off when out of UK and out of EU, you need to convince me on currency, economy, benefits, pensions, jobs, education, health, defence etc. There may be some ideas thrown around but every claim can be argued against. This would be much more ambitious than Brexit uncertainty. I don’t want to risk it.
So i would say those that want independence are gamblers but those who oppose are risk averse.
Brilliant Rev.
The walls are crumbling.
If only they had said, “This money will probably be ringfenced… ” etc, because adding that one simple word, (like saying, for example, “this is probably the last time we’re going to ask you to put your hands in your pockets”,” allows you to fleece people over and over again and then do what you like with their money without the worry of any credible comeback.
It’s these little details … but they aren’t that smart.
I have no Irish connections, I’m not a Catholic, but I am totally
against Westminster corruption and there long standing methods of intimidation.
It could be Scotland next!
link to republican-news.org
Scottish not British. The land mass may be called great Britain, but my country is Scotland. Think Europe…Germans don’t call themselves European, they’re German.. so take yer “yer beitush” bend over and stick it. Thanks
@chas says:
4 April, 2021 at 10:26 am
“The media and especially the ‘press’ are basically owned by Tory supporters and donors. They have enough information to really go for the SNP and reveal the corruption and downright incompetence but realise, that at this time, they do not need to as Independence is miles away despite what some may think.”
It doesn’t matter who owns the media. If there were no allegations about how things were operating, then there would be no stories to publish.
And Somerleyton, if you don’t live in scotland it has less than fuck all to do with you. Take yer British hate and do fk off thanks
If I was at the heart of the SNP I would be invest the remaining funds – all of it and immediately – into developing a time machine.
Maybe they could offer Tom Gordon a free ride so he can go back and delete HIS STUPIT AS FUCK POSTS.
(we know you’re reading Tom, you just cannae help yersel)
@highseastim –
Huh?
Are you wrapped in sheets, lying dormant in a cave?
Time to wake up and roll away the stone!
Peter Murrel needs to go, the SNP isn’t the Murrel private company even though they seem to be running it like it is. That’s the crux of the problem. Its surprising its been allowed for so long.
Somerled
Why don’t you simply accept that ‘all will be fine’ with regards to an Independent Scotland’s finances? Lot’s of people do and it is heresy to think otherwise!
J Park says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:21 am
Meanwhile.
Craig and Charlie, who have helped fund our annual rallys in Freedom Square, are calling for a second vote for the ALBA PARTY.
Archived that for you!
link to archive.is
Why are you so angry somerled ? is it all that confusion swirling around in your head I wonder.
Calling us treasonous and separatist only confirms your British and British only that’s ok you don’t have to be Scottish if you don’t want to be no one is forcing you
@Clavie Cheil says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:49 am
“I am informed that Fraud Investigations take an eternity and more often than not there is an out of Court settlement.”
Too general a statement. It depends on the type of fraud that is alleged to have been committed. Out of court settlement depends on the circumstances and whether the complainant is prepared to accept this. Many do not.
Some organisations will press for prosecution when it comes to fraud, especially DWP and insurance companies.
Chas –
£600k has gone missing from the SNP finances.
Millions wasted by SNP Scot Gov on failed hospitals, ferries, Bi Fab etc.
Millions of Covid money taken by SNP Scotgov to use on election bribes
Millions of Covid money taken from business support to give to SNP branches and other SNP supporting organisations including £250k to Tommy Sheppard
A Finance Secretary who was texting schoolboys
No Currency plans
No economic plans
If you trust the SNP/Alba people on Finance after 13 years of incompetence, corruption and failure then you should see a psychiatrist as you are not well.
de brus – This has been my feeling on all of this all along – there is nor proof they actually raised that much – a bunch of screenshots of their website saying “Amount Raised : 590k” or whatever are literally meaningless.
Haha, nope.
The screenshots from the SNP fundraising website ref.scot are evidence.
If you’re suggesting that the SNP lied, on an official SNP fundraising website which bears the legend Promoted by Peter Murrell on behalf of the Scottish National Party, that’s potentially fraud in itself (dishonest misrepresentation for financial gain).
In any case, if the SNP hasn’t lied/committed fraud/misappropriated funds they could easily put this story to bed through the simple process of:
* Explaining to us how much they raised and where, exactly, that money is
Their refusal to do that, even to members of the SNP’s own financial oversight committee, may have multiple potential motivations – but few of them are legal, and none of them are good.
The Scottish media’s priority is to prevent the supermajority that would remove the decision about indyref2 from the hands of the UK. It will only continue to support Sturgeon for as long as they believe her ‘both votes SNP’ strategy to damage Alba is working. Once Alba is heading for double figures we’ll see a change of tack from TG and his chums.
I think Alba are fucked. I’m not seeing a single thing on social media about them, no sponsored posts, nobody talking about them, nothing apart from on here. They’re trying to raise £50,000 but have only managed £13,000 from around 340 people.
The numbers aren’t there because they’re not getting their name and message in front of people and that’s why they’re fucked. I said when they were first announced that they should have got the Rev in to manage their media. I don’t think they have because I would expect them to have a much higher profile if he was running it.
Shame, because the plan was good.
I suspect the SNP will be bankrupt before any investigation into the 600k completes.
1. A man believes a crime has taken place and reports it to the police. Herald journalists publicly humiliate the man by posting his identity on social media.
2. The Referendum Appeal Fund is not visible in the SNP accounts. A simple red circle on the page of where the money is, showing people it here would suffice. But of course the SNP can’t be clear and do anything simple. Answer the questions.
The fact that the figures can’t be seen clearly probably means there’s been a lot of jiggery-pokery going on. I wouldn’t put it past the SNP to release the accounts in full and the pages to be redacted.
Black markers must be running dry by now.
Kiwilassie
“I have lived in New Zealand for over 50 years. Came here in my twenties. I’m 100% Scot & will be to the day I die.
However I respect my new country & would never do anything to undermine it.
….. me in my heart I’m still a Scot.
You can take the Scot out of Scotland , but you can’t take Scotland out of the Scot.”
—————————
That’s me as well. I’m only a 1000 miles away but Scotland came with me and I try to be as good an Ambassador for Scotland as I can.
Wings again has laid the trap for the Unionist media.
Always hungry for an anti-SNP headline, they hoist themselves up to charges of bias and more importantly create an electoral appetite for the real news story around claims of massive corruption by the UK Tory Government (and Tory Party).
I’ve no doubt the SNP will illuminate on the “alleged” missing fund – and at least will be bound and re-focussed on how that is to be used.
What needs to be carefully considered, is SNP supporters belief that ‘their Party’ is under sustained attack.
Human nature makes them far less likely to “lend” their support elsewhere when that perception becomes real.
Given the ludicrous joint wages of the King and Queen of Scotland, there should be no difficulty in them reimbursing the party for the funds they have squandered. Or else they can agree a £100k a year until it is paid off. What on earth do they spend their huge salaries on? A modest hoose in Glasgow? Offshore accounts?
The interfering hand of the union is at work with their ‘Dark Money’.
Interfering where they don’t belong.
link to theferret.scot
@somerled 12.09 & 12.21 pm
You are patently a nasty piece of work. Whether you’re just trolling and hoping for a negative reaction to hold up as vile cybernat abuse later, or you’re just doing it for the LOLZ I don’t know.
The fact you lack the moral courage to post under your own name and the content tells us everything we need to know about you and your motivations. I highly doubt you were ever a supporter of indy, but since you remain a snivelling anonymous coward we’ll never know will we?
Being concerned for your own benefits and car may be understandable on one level, but really it’s hard to see how someone who purports to have supported independence in 2014 has seen what has happened since and thought: “Yeah, these unionists are a far better bet: better the certainties of post brexit global UK out of the EU than the risks of an independent Scotland inside the EU”.
You’re just another in the parade of non-too-convincing British nationalist sock puppet accounts that have been popping up on here lately insisting they’re either “persuadable No voters” or “disappointed former Yes voters”: are you hell as like!
You insist on the Yes side giving chapter and verse on how things would work, a guarantee you’d be personally better off, and that every i would be dotted and every t crossed. It’s as transparent as it is desperate.
You will notice that in this instance the complainer is outed and roundly mocked as eccentric and unbelievable.
Whereas other complainers, let me see – there was a recent example – are treated as the anguished victims of a terrible crime and so must remain anonymous. Every word they say is gospel truth and even after a court case which disproved their allegations, they are to be elevated to the status of sainthood, and given further opportunities to publicise the awful things which didn’t happen to them and the terrible hurt and shame. And no way are they eccentric people who should be outed in the press as unbelievable people with an axe to grind. No, never.
Alba on course for 6%
link to archive.is
Somerled…
If I wanted to read your push, I’d consult the Tory campaign leaflet I put in the recycling.
Why not go somewhere your contributions are actually welcome.
Yours
RK (former Crab)
tartanfever says:
Hugh Wallace @ 11.11
‘Serious question: how do we know how much money ended up being raised? Is it possible that the fundraising campaign was a complete flop but the SNP claim £500k was raised to save face? Is the money missing from the SNP’s accounts now because it was never really there at all?’
Because it has to be accounted for in your tax returns/financial statement. Claiming publicly that you raised £600k for it not to appear in you annual financial return to HMRC and the Electoral Commission would be one of the stupidest moves of all time.
It’s entirely the point of this whole investigation.
Simply put, it’s called fraud.
___________________________________
Claiming to have money when you don’t isn’t fraud.
No one is taxed for writing “I have half a million quid!” on a website. They are taxed on actual income, money coming into their accounts for example.
What is being questioned by Hugh Wallace here is whether or not the money on discussion was even raised in the first place.
There can be no doubt that the money has been spent. There is no £600k in the accounts.
In fact, though the accounts show there is just under £97k cash, they also show current liabilities exceed current assets by almost £128k, so they have no money at all to spend on campaigning, unless they get it from the bank or from payday lenders.
Mist 001 13.34 pm
Shut up ya zooner.You know fuck all yoon in France.
You cannae vote here! You got that yet?
Ian Mac says:
4 April, 2021 at 12:42 pm
You will notice that in this instance the complainer is outed and roundly mocked as eccentric and unbelievable.
Whereas other complainers, let me see – there was a recent example – are treated as the anguished victims of a terrible crime and so must remain anonymous. Every word they say is gospel truth and even after a court case which disproved their allegations, they are to be elevated to the status of sainthood, and given further opportunities to publicise the awful things which didn’t happen to them and the terrible hurt and shame. And no way are they eccentric people who should be outed in the press as unbelievable people with an axe to grind. No, never.
—————————————————————–
The thing is Ian what these woman don’t seem to realise ( maybe they do now) is that Sturgeon has screwed them played as pawns because although they may be anonymous to most of us they’re not anonymous to the people that matter, my guess is if any of these women had any thoughts of a career at the highest levels in politics they can forget it now they’re toxic
You don’t need to be religious (I’m not) to be moved by this tweet from Kevin McKenna ..
“He is risen.
A Happy Easter to everyone.”
Beaker says:
4 April, 2021 at 12:23 pm
@Clavie Cheil says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:49 am
“I am informed that Fraud Investigations take an eternity and more often than not there is an out of Court settlement.”
Too general a statement. It depends on the type of fraud that is alleged to have been committed. Out of court settlement depends on the circumstances and whether the complainant is prepared to accept this. Many do not.
Some organisations will press for prosecution when it comes to fraud, especially DWP and insurance companies.
====================================================
I also said we have a rotten to the core Lord Advocate and in light of that fact expect no charges to be brought let alone any Court appearances.
Fishy Wullie:
“my guess is if any of these women had any thoughts of a career at the highest levels in politics they can forget it now they’re toxic”
Ahem, some of them already do…so I am told
Claiming to have money when you don’t isn’t fraud.
Wrong. If you lie in order to encourage people to give you money who otherwise might not, it is fraud. Has been for centuries.
An obvious purpose of falsely inflating the donations figure would be to encourage more people to donate. So you’re literally accusing Peter Murrell of fraud.
In other words, where someone is caused to do something they would not otherwise have done by use of deception.
Red says:
4 April, 2021 at 12:32 pm
de brus – This has been my feeling on all of this all along – there is nor proof they actually raised that much – a bunch of screenshots of their website saying “Amount Raised : 590k” or whatever are literally meaningless.
Haha, nope.
The screenshots from the SNP fundraising website ref.scot are evidence.
If you’re suggesting that the SNP lied, on an official SNP fundraising website which bears the legend Promoted by Peter Murrell on behalf of the Scottish National Party, that’s potentially fraud in itself (dishonest misrepresentation for financial gain).
In any case, if the SNP hasn’t lied/committed fraud/misappropriated funds they could easily put this story to bed through the simple process of:
* Explaining to us how much they raised and where, exactly, that money is
Their refusal to do that, even to members of the SNP’s own financial oversight committee, may have multiple potential motivations – but few of them are legal, and none of them are good.
Hi Red,
Screenshots from their site are evidence that they claimed to raise 600k (approx) but not evidence that they actually did.
Also, I don’t think they can easily put this story to bed. They either raised the money then spent it, or they didn’t raise money and lied about that. They’d be utterly f**cked if they admitted either of these things.
Ian Mac says:
4 April, 2021 at 12:59 pm
Ahem, some of them already do…so I am told
—————————————————————-
No doubt but this particular criminal cartel we call the Scottish Government won’t always be there to protect them
The SNP’s accounts are filed on the electoral commission’s website.
If these filings are found to be false then that is fraud as well.
In addition to Stu/Craig etc, Who would have thought a year ago that we could maybe be saved from the SNP shitshow by the combined efforts of:
Alex Salmond
David Davis
Andrew Neil
George Galloway
Sean Clerkin
Kenny Macaskill
It’s like the Dirty Half Dozen
You need to cut the lying, corrupt, thieving Murrell’s some slack here.
Do you know how much it costs to keep our top Law Officers going in back handers?
Scotland doesn’t have a Police Force anymore, it has a Militia.
Reposting this from the yesterday’s thread:
If the SNP somehow manage to win a majority either on their own or with Green support then that’s going to be a disaster for Scotland and Alba can be ignored by Sturgeon. A far better result would be for the Greens to be eliminated, the SNP to fall short and have to form a coalition with Alba to govern. The price of coalition might well be Sturgeon’s resignation as FM. To that end the elimination of the worst of the Sturgeon cabal would help Alba not hinder it.
For example, if Sarwar were to unseat Salmond in the constituency seat and that left Labour with just 1 constituency seat in that region, the divisor for Labour List votes for the first List seat would be 1+1=2 ie HALVED, thus increasing the chances of Alba winning their first List seat. and increasing their chances of winning seats in the subsequent rounds.
Now Sturgeon might get back via a List seat but maybe not if Roza Salih refuses to budge. That would be delicious irony, Sturgeon hoist by her own Woke petard! Even if NS does get back on the List her credibility will be shot – if she’s not popular enough to win her own seat what does that say about her electoral appeal more generally? Same goes for Swinney, Robertson, Humza etc.
I understand why Alex is pushing SNP 1, Alba 2 publicly, you have to keep the message simple. However, I’d argue for urging everyone you know to vote tactically for whichever candidate has the best chance of defeating Sturgeon, Robertson, Swinney and Humza in the constituency seats. I also believe Alba should launch a full-on assault on the Greens highlighting their support for GRA and lack of any commitment to Independence.
Red says:
An obvious purpose of falsely inflating the donations figure would be to encourage more people to donate. So you’re literally accusing Peter Murrell of fraud.
Hi Red
No, what was being suggested was they inflated the figure because only raising a relatively small amount did not look good. And when no more money came in they pulled the fundraiser entirely.
Old Scots law was Proven or Not Proven. Guilty and Not Guilty are the interlopers. We should go back to Proven and Not Proven.
That’s it, redact the £600,000, say it never existed. And if anyone tries to say that it did have them charged with contempt of court.
Problem sorted. Simples.
Tom Gordon is officially a Wanker.
For the sake of all of us, he should be barred from approaching a keyboard ever again.
He still hasn’t come to grips with this thinking before you type thing.
Somerled
I was being sarcastic
maureen @ 12:43 pm
“Alba on course for 6%”
Actually, growth of 3% a week means ALBA is probably on course for 20+ seats.
#Supermajority at this ‘independence’ election means, as Alex says, we start negotiating for independence. Everybody who wants independence should vote ALBA on the list.
And Ayrshire Rob singlehandedly advances the cause of independence with his erudite and incisive comments.
What a fucking shower. A lot of you don’t fucking deserve independence, you deserve a spell in the fucking madhouse.
Whenever anybody asks me for examples of delusion, I immediately direct them to this website.
The ignorance is staggering.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
More unrecorded and unminuted meetings. Sturgeon and Swinney again.
Anyone,,,”Still Sturgeon”?
-Mist001 at 12.33-
There was a story about them on the front of most of the papers in my local petrol station this morning, it has been a lead story on BBC News (!) multiple times, and I’ve certainly seen a few things on social media.
Not trying to indulge in wishful thinking, I think these are all proof of visibility.
link to linkedin.com
link to scottishconstructionnow.com
Oh and the story about the property developer who gave a £100,000 donation, subsequently had unrecorded meetings with Nicola Sturgeon, before thereafter having planning decisions reversed in his favour by the Scottish government, and then onto £650 million of housing, nothing for a Sturgeon to answer here.
One the secret meetings with the developer were private meetings. Nothing to do with the Government. Two the government reversal of planning refusals was nothing to do with Sturgeon, and in any event were absolutely nothing to do with her. The donors building of 3,000 homes is nothing to do with rage donors donation of £100k to the SNP. Again for the avoidance of doubt Nicola probably knew nothing whatsoever about the donation and if she did she would have forgotten about it.
There nothing to answer. All in order.
Anyone who isn’t asking why the Yoon press/media are charging into the fray to defend the SNP has had lobotomy & has gone beyond the event horizon of credulity.
The complainers were coaxed, cajouled , exploited , then abandoned by the real criminals.
NS is revealing her true self every day. She said “ it was a relief “ when Alex Salmond was found not guilty. Now she reveals she still has a festering thorn in her flesh. One ‘not proven’ verdict!!!! .
.
According to sky news today sturgeon and her outfit rape crisis now want to change legal system to remove ‘not proven’ verdicts. I wonder why and who this is directed at? Doesn’t she know that in Salmond’s case if not proven didn’t exist then that one verdict would have resulted in not guilty too. She really must be desperate. Here’s hoping that her days are numbered. She’s unfit to lead the Scottish people. Perhaps she can go home to her English granny.
Mist001……a classic troll
Arrogant, self-aggrandising and aggressive.
First class article Stuart.
It is not the character of the complainant that is in question, but whether fraud has been committed by the Murrells. And the evidence is incontrovertible. Their refusal to let anyone see the books tells you everything you need to know.
The police have the powers to demand access to the books and then their culpability will be revealed. Caught with their hand in the till!
Aye
Whatever Mist001 ya clown.I can spot a zoomer when I see wan.
You told us feck all. Yer a zoomer . I said give him a week and he’ll be on here slagging Alba Party. There ye go.
Now piss off.
100%Yes says:
4 April, 2021 at 10:42 am
If the Alba party is polling at 6% does this mean they will be included in Tv debates.
==========
They may not be present but the debating will include them, I suspect.
@Willie – Sir Angus Grossart is a well connected chap. Fingers in all the pies. He set up the Scottish Government’s secretive Scottish Futures Trust which uses Billions in PFI money to build our hospitals and schools.
Somehow, they don’t call it borrowing any longer. When it was PFI it was called borrowing but now they call it something different.
As before, the quality (think Edinburgh Sick Kids and Queen Elizabeth Universiry Hospitals) is crap. Not always crap….just sometimes crap. It was called crap when it was PFI. Now they call it something different.
I wonder if Pete Wishart watched Runrigs final performance concert on the “ALBA” channel last night?
AYRSHIRE ROB/robbo
The only “Zoomer” around at the moment on Wings is you.
What a fuckin pest.
tartanfever said:
‘To ring-fence, a grant or fund means to put restrictions on it, so that it can only be used for a particular purpose.’
This is very important because it means that ‘ring-fenced must be a legal term in financial law, so you can’t just call something ringfenced and then change it to ‘start-up funds as the SNP spokeswoman attempted to when she said the money was partly used to set up an ‘independence unit’
It looks like the Murrels have had their fingers in the cookie jar!
If/when the Alba party support starts to rise above the Greens and LD then the press will have to start to go after the SNP. They’ll hope to hit support from yes in the constituency vote with a negative impact on Alba in the list. Any SNP seats they lose in the constituency will be picked up in the list and the game keeps on.
De brus – No, what was being suggested was they inflated the figure because only raising a relatively small amount did not look good. And when no more money came in they pulled the fundraiser entirely.
It’s an interesting defence, but it would only take a £1 donation between Peter Murrell (allegedly) falsifying the figures and the fundraiser being closed to make this… fraud.
I don’t think they suddenly bumped the figure up to £482K and then immediately closed it either, seems unlikely that would’ve gone unnoticed.
In any event, this is why the SNP’s absolute refusal to clear up the matter requires a criminal investigation. Because on the face of it, the most likely explanations for the missing money are some variant of… fraud. Best possible case scenario seems to be that Peter Murrell is just a bald-faced liar who is abusing his position as CEO of the SNP to prevent proper corporate governance.
Either way, there’s no good outcome to this for the SNP unless Tom Gordon gets his wish and people just forget the whole thing.
Andy Ellis – Are you saying people can’t change their minds?
FWIW i am anonymous because 2 years ago one of your vicious Indy pals, an ex junkie from the Borders threatened to come to Fife after we disagreed on Twitter. I had to call the Police as he also doxxed my address and home business. At the time I was an Indy voter and as a stroke survivor gave up work. I joined twitter and started following Wings because of the Defamation case and contributed to it. I know many SNP voterswho are decent but its the minority in my opinion.
Reading Wings convinced me most Indy supporters are delusional. Yes, i was probably a soft Yes supporter as I hadnt given it a lot if thought. Believed in Alex Salmond & thought SNP were good for Scotland. Didn’t realise Alex was often drunk and chasing skirt.
Then i read about SNP and GRA reform. I started to think what the SNP had done for Scotland and it wasnt much at all. They all seem to be lining their pockets and obsessed with LGBT. I never hated GB or Union Jack or Westminster. It was always about what i believe is best for Scotland.
I accept others think differently but as i say if i am to retutn to voting Yes i want to see answers to all the important questions. Not blind faith that so many Indy voters have and why there is an obvious parallell with trans activists who are also delusional ignore facts.
So yes, i get angry if i’m told i cant call myself Scottish and British when others here say its okay to be Scottish and European or Irish and British. There is no consistency. All of the Indy supporters spend most of their time fighting with each other as well as being nasty to others who dont share their fantasy.
I suspect if your name really is Andy Ellis then you are one of the bullies rather than one of the bullied. Do you also tell feminists to stop being anonymous when teans activists are attacking them?
I certainly dont think Westminster, Union or Tories are perfect but they are doing more for Women’s rights than those Indy people supporting Alex Salmond. I believe for the time being we are better off together in the UK. I don’t expect to change peoples minds as most are too fanatical in the Sturgeon Cult or the Salmond Cult.
At the moment the most important thing is Women’s Rights NOT Independence. If you believe otherwise and care more for Indy then you are a misogynist or not a real feminist/ally in my opinion.
That flag is disgusting. It’s got to be a joke. If not the SNP are in La La land. It’s truly horrendous.
APRIL FOOOOL!!!
@ somerled.
You sound like yet another labour party troll on this site .Usual empty rhetoric about divisive nationalism , snp corruption blah blah blah.
What about your beloved labour party then somerled?
Up to their old tricks in liverpool , and bankrupted croydon council in london?
“Labour-run Croydon council declares bankruptcy due to rampant property speculation”
link to wsws.org
“Liverpool council may have squandered up to £100m of public money
Sources say authority at centre of corruption allegations lost millions through questionable transactions”
link to theguardian.com
“Liverpool council corruption scandal threatens Labour power in the city
Analysis: Political fallout could cost Labour the city’s mayoralty and votes in May’s local elections”
link to theguardian.com
same shit different day , two different cities . Takes us all back to the bad old days when labour ruled their glasgow fiefdom with arrogance and impunity.
Karen says:
“Old Scots law was Proven or Not Proven. Guilty and Not Guilty are the interlopers. We should go back to Proven and Not Proven.”
I totally agree Karen. We should return to the two verdicts of Proven and Not Proven as these are scientifically correct. A person may be morally guilty but not criminally guilty and the Guilty and Not Guilty verdicts can fail to distinguish between the two. They are psychologically ambiguous and therefore open to exploitation. For instance, exploiting someone’s character as “bad” and therefore implying that, because of this, they must be guilty.
Nicola will be stopping not proven and not guilty soon
Clearly any accused is guilty
oops unless it relates to money missing from indyref2
link to crowdfunder.co.uk
Do we have a glitch in the fundraiser. I find it strange that it hasen’t moved for a while?
Chas ?
Labour on the retreat in wales as well…
“Wales could be on course for the closest devolved election in history – and possibly the worst ever result for the Labour party, an exclusive poll for ITV Wales has shown. ”
link to itv.com
You just dont get it somerled , the voting public have had enough of you labour party champagne socialists , with your lectures about divisive nationalism while screaming constant empty rhetoric about the poor and nhs.
Only a party as daft as labour would have a knight of the realm as their leader while describing themselves as “champagne socialists.”
Wish I had a fiver for every time Nicola waves it off as a conspiracy theory
Somerled.
Have you no figured out yet that British is synonymous with English in the rest of the world. If you are British then the Rest of the Planet considers you English whether you like it or not. Noo awa and bile yer heid troll.
@ Anna at 12.18: “Peter Murrell needs to go…It’s surprising it has been allowed to go on for so long.”
Exactly. I too have wondered about this – how come at least +the 15 MSPs who are retiring haven’t told some hard truths to the leader?
It isn’t only the fact that there have been dodgy shenanigans [to put it mildly] but also the sheer incompetence and insanity of the policies adopted, the failure to consider anything but a s30-aided referendum, the constant postponement of action for independence, and the removal of democracy inside the party. Any of those things should have sounded alarm bells.
Judging by the reaction I have experienced, I think the motivation has been “wheesht for indy” in the belief that the leader’s popularity is key to success. Sigh.
I’m sure the money is just ‘resting’ in someone’s account.
@Littleladylotte 4 April, 2021 at 12:14 pm
“Scottish not British. The land mass may be called great Britain, but my country is Scotland. Think Europe…Germans don’t call themselves European, they’re German.. so take yer “yer beitush” bend over and stick it. Thanks”
Get your point but the difference is Europe is a Continent but Britain is an Island or collection of Islands to be more precise.
de brus:
to compare a private individual claiming to have an extra £600k to a registered political party publicly fundraising and claiming to have raised this money are not the same thing.
I’m sure you know this, but thought I’d point it out.
Fundraising under false pretenses that monies are ‘ring fenced’ and then are used for general spending is a fraud.
If the SNP claim to have raised a certain amount of money and then can’t show it in their accounts, then the Electoral Commission as well as HMRC will want to know where it is. As I posted earlier in the thread, this is from the Electoral Commissions guide on setting up a Political Party:
‘Under PPERA, registered political parties must comply with rules on donations and spending and reporting requirements.
These rules include continuous donation and loan controls, spending controls during regulated elections, annual accounts reporting and annual registration renewal.
These rules are to ensure the integrity and transparency of party political finance. If you don’t follow them, you may be subject to fines or other enforcement action.
In some cases, this can include a referral for criminal prosecution.’
Andy @ 1:36pm
I watched the Runrig final concert on ALBA last night. An outstanding show and well worth watching.
In my view the final group line up was the best ever.
A special mention to the lead guitarist. He was on par with the best in the World.
If you haven’t seen it – well worth a catch up.
Captain Yossarian @ 1.36.
You got it in one when you describe the Scottish Futures Trust as just being PFI by another name because that is exactly what it is.
Design, build, own and operate all funded by private finance with 5he asset thereafter rented back to the state.Schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, sewage treatment plants, there’s nothing that cannot be privatised.
Some years back I recall seeing an info graphic depicting an oil tanker with the accommodation block above the water at the stern representing the build cost, the absolutely enormous forward section of the tanker representing the future finance which is many many times the capital cost.
And so it has come to pass, the socially wonderfully named Scottish Futures Trust is but a creative name to mask expensive private borrowing. And all the while the hapless taxpayer has to pay ever increasing expensive private finance for what many would describe as very poor quality assets.
New Labour, New SNP under Sturgeon and Swinney. Same cheeks of the same arse.
When you’re a liar, every truth is a conspiracy
Somerled…
“but as i say if i am to retutn to voting Yes i want to see answers to all the important questions.”
Then join a party and start helping to frame the answers to your “important questions”.
Biggest problem this country has are those who sit back and expect everyone else to do all the legwork and come up with all the answers.
Personally, I don’t trust ANY politicians to determine my fate – which is why I get involved and seek to influence those who seek positions in life which will determine what I can and can’t do.
Don’t sit back and hope someone will tell you everything you want to hear so you can sleep at night. You want that, then I suggest you go to church!
Otherwise, step up and get involved and shape the answers to the questions that matter to you!
Supported Labour all my life and laterally a member until 2014 Indy campaign when their true British Establishment support anti Scottish colours were raised on their flag.
Never will be trusted again as a true party of the working class. Not when they sit in the “scroungers” unelected House of Lords only second in size to the unelected Chinese Politburo.
And we are told we have a democracy in the U.K.
Don’t make me laugh.
First Nicola wants to remove “not proven” then she will want to back date it especially for former first ministers.
and she claim that it is down to her legal background that she has come round to this view.
If she is still in the government -We’re Doomed.
Thomas – You are wrong on so many levels
I have never voted for Labour but I did want Tony Blair as PM although in hindsight was a mistake. I have always lived in NE Fife which was Conservative when i was young then Liberal Democrat with Ming Campbell then Stephen Gethins SNP which i voted for at the time but not in 2019.
How many Indy supporters will actually admit voting SNP was a mistake ?
J Park says: 4 April, 2021 at 11:21 am
“Craig and Charlie, who have helped fund our annual rallys in Freedom Square, are calling for a second vote for the ALBA PARTY.”
Has to be said that news that the Proclaimers – whose songs (especially “Cap In Hand”) have been used in many past SNP broadcasts – are saying “vote Alba” is almost as big a disaster for Sturgeon as the majority of the press (bar the Rangers Herald as ever) finally catching up with WoS over the SNP’s big old funny money problem.
Also, as well as the Alba party on 6%, the alarming news that a certain anti-Semite’s latest flag of convenience is sitting on 4% will concentrate even the most hidebound SNPbot’s mind into doing the right thing according to Angus MacNeil’s “using logic and sense” criteria instead of flinging it away on their “brand name” with fk all chance of picking up anything on the lists.
Incidentally, as a fine example of Newsquest’s fuckwit approach to keeping their readers (and that the David Leask affair a few years ago was no “oversight”, I’m sure the residents of Bridport and Lyme Regis will be rivetted to learn this latest twist in the Scottish election campaign.
link to bridportnews.co.uk
If Rodney Legg were still alive he’d have facepalmed.
Stu
Somerled’s post at 12.21 is highly offensive (and I am not easily offended). Please will you consider a deletion. Thanks
“Somerled’s post at 12.21 is highly offensive (and I am not easily offended). Please will you consider a deletion. Thanks”
Deleted. For future reference, please use the Contact form for such requests, as I’m much more likely to see it there than in comments.
@Thomas
The trouble with the SNP is all the crazy policies you have to sign up to if you vote for them.
To these have now been added corruption at the top.
There probably is a majority for independence in Scotland but many won’t vote for the SNP because they can’t stomach their “woke” policies.
Scotland has changed so much.
When I was growing up a “tranny” was a radio.
@somerled 1.48 pm
No, I accept people can change their minds. To move from 28% in the polls in 2012 to 45% by 2014 many Scots obviously changed their minds about independence. For many years I’d probably have settled for some kind of devo-max and thought it would be the best we could realistically hope for: it took me quite a while to realise we can and should do better, but also (perhaps more importantly) to realise the English by and large want different things and have zero interest in devolution or a federal solution for the UK: they rather LIKE the current set up where they get what they want 100% of the time, and the Celtic fringes get what they want when we agree with them.
Perhaps what you say about your background is true, perhaps it isn’t. We have no way of knowing because you’re anonymous. you may be on the level and you may not. Who knows? Nobody condones abuse or doxxing, but even if your story is true however awful your experience is it tells us precisely nothing about “all” independence supporters, all SNP voters/members or all Wings Over Scotland supporters. Trying to paint all of those with one brush because of your individual experience is deeply disingenuous. Let’s remember that a few posts ago, you casually accused me of hating the English. Sorry, but you’re very much part of the problem, not part of the solution from what I can see.
I won’t be lectured by someone with your record on here about whether I’m a bully, or whether I support women’s rights. I’m not the snivelling anonymous coward here am I “somerled”? I’ve always posted under my own name. Perhaps if more people did so our public discourse wouldn’t be where it is now? I very publicly left the SNP in support of @grousebeater when he was subject to an SNP kangaroo court, and I’ve consistently supported women’s rights and opposed the TRA agenda. Like Rev. Stu I lost my twitter account because of it. The twitter account was also in my own name.
I’ve never met any true Scots nationalist that had any time for the union jack, or Westminster or the GB as a concept. With friends like you, we have no need of enemies: we have those aplenty already. The support of faint-hearts like you won’t be missed.
House of Lords – that bastion of democracy
263 Conservarives
178 Labour
86 LibDems
PC / 2 Greens / DUP / Ulster Unionists
26 Bishops
Hundreds of pretend Independents
AND Hereditary peers still sit there with 500 more waiting to step in if one should die.
You pay for this
Greens and PC jumped on the wagon
Why are Bishops in the HofLs
I wish I hadn’t looked.