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Just the brass tacks

Posted on April 05, 2014 by

We appreciate some of you have been struggling to keep up with our investigations into Labour’s devolution proposals. So we’ve boiled it right down.

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    1. 09 06 14 11:44

      Cheap flights are on the way | Aye 2014

    91 to “Just the brass tacks”

    1. Pin says:

      Oooft!

    2. cynicalHighlander says:

      OT: Re twit pi

      http://tinyurl.com/po3pbv5

      delete as req.

    3. Papadox says:

      Pick a number, any number, aw naw that wan! Right pick a number….

    4. The pellet with the poison’s in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true! Right?

    5. BuckieBraes says:

      I thought that was former Dundee United boss Jim McLean on the right, for a moment.

      Mind you, his interpretation of the proposals would probably be as valid as anyone else’s.

    6. Murray McCallum says:

      These graphics that summarise dry, technical topics are very good indeed.

    7. caz-m says:

      And don’t forget they are going to dismantle the new Universal Credit system, which they have said they will continue if they win the 2015 GE, so Scotland can have it’s own separate Housing Benefit system.

    8. Nick says:

      I’ll boil it down further for you all – down to one word

      Wait for it.

      ‘Pish’

      the end

    9. liz says:

      Meant to say I was speaking to someone in the counting house last night who said he had JoLa in his taxi on the night she appeared in newsnight talking of the devo nano plans and he said she was being coached in what to say.

    10. GrabTheThistle says:

      The Truths: More reasons to vote “YES” and address the crimes of the UK State.

      1792 (late July to early August) — Angry tenant farmers drive all the Cheviots in Ross-shire to Boath. The 42nd Regiment(BLACK WATCH) intervenes, and the sheep are returned to Ross-shire.
      (First action and Mutiny: The 42nd regiment’s earliest days were inauspicious: ordered to London in 1743 for an inspection by King GeorgeII, rumours flew that they were to be shipped to the West Indies to fight in the War of Austrian Succession, and many left for Scotland. They were recaptured, 3 leaders SHOT in the Tower of London, and the remainder of the regiment shipped to Flanders.)

      1803 — Seeing their labor-base diminishing due to emigration, landowners in the Hebrides work for passage of the Passenger Act, which limits the number of people who can emigrate to other countries, trapping and keeping many tenants in poverty.

      1807 (October) — The Rambler, carrying 133 emigrants from Thurso, sinks in the Atlantic. Only three passengers survive.

      1807 (November) — a gathering of The Northern Association of Gentlemen Farmers and Breeders of Sheep agree to move their activities into Ross-shire, Sutherlandshire, and Caithness. This decision would lead to massive clearances in those areas.

      1811 — More than 50 shepherds are brought into Sutherlandshire and made Justices of the Peace — thereby giving them legal control over the native tenants.

      1813 — Lord and Lady Stafford, the landowners of Sutherlandshire, hire James Loch to oversee the clearing of their lands.

    11. caz-m says:

      As I said yesterday, the only certainty if we vote NO is that we will be hammered financially by our share Β£25billion pounds of cuts that are coming down the line no matter who wins the 2015 GE.

    12. CameronB says:

      Johann: “Wha’s wavin’ that toast about?”. πŸ™‚

    13. heedtracker says:

      This is their cunning plan. Just say anything, rely on BetterTogetherBBC in Scotland, Daily Record, Eddie Izzard, John Barrowman etc to keep up the vote no pressure?

      Don’t forget, Harry Potter also says NO Scotlandshire!

    14. caz-m says:

      Has any serious journalist came out and actually praised this offer from Scottish Labour.

      I have not read one serious piece anywhere which has said that this is the game changer, this is what Scots have been waiting on, this is their Devo-Plus.

      The lack of support from ANYONE, is the proof that these proposals for more powers are nothing more than empty meaningless promises.

    15. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CameronB –

      Funny you should mention that. Here’s a snap of Lamont and Co:

      http://static9.depositphotos.com/1003983/1182/i/950/depositphotos_11829409-Pile-of-buttered-toast-on-a-white-plate.jpg

    16. No No No...Yes says:

      No wonder they are all confused, uncle Henry McLeish has been speaking to them. His pearls of wisdom are captured in an interview by Isobel Fraser on a new BBC webcast:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26900494

      Henry is full of contradictions and there are lots of gifts for the Yes Campaign.I’ve paraphrased a few, but there are many more:

      “..be part of Federal Labour Party in the United Kingdom.. Johann is the leader, Johann must be allowed to lead”

      “..giving Johann the Freedom of Scotland to be in charge of the party…..a whole bunch of things to be devolved…”

      “… 2015 at Westminster… 2016 election at Holyrood. This is not a short term battle to win a No vote.”

      There is nothing like clarity to help voters decide and this is nothing like clarity.

      Brass tacks and brass necks.

    17. gordoz says:

      O/T Camerons not involved in Independence debate & NO side complain about how much was was spent on Scotlands Future white paper. All available here in Scotland under FOI.

      Can anyone estimate the costs of the mighty Westminster Machine (and our tax spend) for this Library of Fear & Smear ?

      (Remember UK gov wont say despite being asked; as they dont have to – FOI does not cover UKI system)

      https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/scottish-independence-referendum

    18. gordoz says:

      O/T Camerons not involved in Independence debate & NO side complain about how much was was spent on Scotlands Future white paper. All available here in Scotland under FOI.

      Can anyone estimate the costs of the mighty Westminster Machine (and our tax spend) for this Library of Fear & Smear ?

      (Remember UK gov wont say despite being asked; as they dont have to – FOI does not cover UK system)

      https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/scottish-independence-referendum

    19. CameronB says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I think a toast war has just broken out in Off-topic. πŸ™‚

    20. Rod Robertson says:

      Rev the wait is killing me , you got some nice numbers for us?

    21. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The sun is out, I watched with envy over the Counting House Stream, and now it is my turn fur a wee bevvy.

      So, I am feeling whimsical and let us start with the three stooges;

      JoLa—chewin a caramel, you finish the sentence folks.

      Richard Baker—a cross between a Halloween Cake and a Morph, with as much intellectual insight.

      Tom Clarke—met him a few times as he was, before being an MP, the Provost of Airdrie, or mibbes just a Cooncillor waiting on Buggins turn. He. I think lived with his Mother; no bad thing but seemed withdrawn and not really empathetic.

      I remember one one big boosomed Russian Opera Diva from a touring “folk” ensemble, Soviet era, using him as a paramour type foil and he hadn’t a clue what to do. Typical Labour working class drone; out of his depth and if her were a up and an up-and-coming Cooncillor today, would be perfect for the backbenches of Holyrood.

      I believe my sweater was there last night, at least.

    22. Juteman says:

      I actually thought the Labour message was very clear.

      Vote No, and we’ll think of something. Maybe.

    23. Juteman says:

      Comment under moderation?

    24. Les Wilson says:

      liz says:

      Liz I guess all you can say about that is “didn’t it go well!”

    25. Onwards says:

      It’s either a total dogs dinner, or a cynical attempt to deceive.

      I suspect the plan is indeed for the ability to increase taxes only, but NEVER to lower them below UK level.

      But they want to keep it as vague as possible, so that it isn’t so obvious we only have the power to disadvantage ourselves.

      All they want is the ability to say they are offering more powers and responsibility, when these powers are useless.

      Or a cynical appeal to working class socialists by saying they can ‘tax the rich’, when in reality it would never happen.

    26. schrodingers cat says:

      O/T
      this is good

    27. John Smithmaybe says:

      An appropriate theme tune to smooth over all the conflicting and confusing statements is now available for labour’s political SOAP opera, courtesy of the Tate and Campbell families. ‘Confused? You won’t be…Tune in next week for more!’ πŸ™‚ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSaNWYHmUvI&hd=1

    28. Claire McNab says:

      The main thing to remember here is that it’s all about uncertainty.

      The Scottish Govt has a plan which, being only a plan, may not work out. Life is uncertain, and stuff happens.

      The Lib-Lab-Con coalition labelled “Better Together” has three different plans, which they disagree about. The biggest part of that coalition is Lab, which disagrees with itself about what its plan is. If any of them ever agree what their plan is, it may not work out. Life is uncertain, and stuff happens.

      So we got two groups, both with plans which may not work out, because life is uncertain, and stuff happens.

      Now this is the important bit, where y’all need to pay attention. Some of you may be foolish enough to think that it’s better to follow the people who at least agree what their plan is. That would, of course, be silly.

      It’s much much much better to follow the people with three rival plans, especially the biggest of those rivals who spent 6 months planning their plan and can’t even agree what it is that they agreed. That’s because you aren’t thinking like a Unionist.

      Once you learn to start thinking like a Unionist, you will realise that the only sensible choice is to follow the plan of people who don’t even know their own plan. That’s the way to get rid of uncertainty.

      The reason it works like this is because of the principle of the double negative, as applied in Unionist-think. Unionist logic shows that taking an uncertain future and adding a unknown plan produced by people who disagree with each other is the way to create certainty, and good outcomes.

      Even if your pretty little heads don’t yet understand why this works so well, just remember that it does work. In 2010, Scotland elected mostly Labour MPs, who promised to “protect frontline spending” (ScotLab 2010 Manifesto, page 6). That has worked brilliantly, hasn’t it? There is no Bedroom Tax, is there?

    29. caz-m says:

      Calling Ian Brotherhood

      Watched a bit of the get together in the Counting House on the Live Streaming, looked a good night out.

      I hope between the lot of you that a lot cunning plans were being hatched.

      Hopefully lots of new ideas were discussed, and new plans drawn up for the next assault on the Bitter Together strongholds.

      That last major attack by us worked a treat. They still think that it was the evil “OE Gang” that carried out the bombardment of Murray HQ in Edinburgh.

      Will listen out for future instructions.

      Over and out.

    30. andrew>reid says:

      It is worth remember this cunning plan by Baldric – sorry, I meant Jola, but it’s easy to confuse them – is all about Labour Party interests and finally getting it right about wounding the SNP and killing devolution stone dead (again). Also remember that the Tories and Lib Dems are taxcutting parties and that the Labour manifestos for the UK general elections in 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2010 all committed Labour to no income tax increases. Finally, within this omnishambles of Labour’s current income tax devolution proposals, it is worth remembering that total income tax take in Scotland only amounts to 20% of total Scottish tax take, and labour is only proposing further devolution of this tax, as Westminster politicians find it toxic, And don’t like to touch it, but devolving it doesn’t shift the balance of power from Westminster one iota – only the much enhanced potential for blame – But then, that is Baldric’s cunning plan.

    31. Flower of Scotland says:

      Clear as mud! The papers don’t report it because they are still trying to decipher Labours Devolution Plans!

    32. jingly jangly says:

      caz-m Don’t think anybody was fit to talk future plans, the beer seemed to go down too well…. Got a few undecided on the train from Glasgow to Paisley, full of monkey juice and high (In Spirits) after a Justin Timberlake concert.

      Anyway they got the aye right business cards and seemed interested, just young kids but I get the feeling that the country is waking up. Also of note was two definatley No’s arguing (I confess I started it) in a pub in Paisley, and one of them saying it they (OKOK) keep on telling us we canna dae it I will vote YES. Think some people are still waiting for the positive case for the Union πŸ™‚

    33. Andrew Brown says:

      Finally had a written reply from my MP (Thomas Docherty) in response to my first enquiry. It appears to be identical to the one sent out by Gordon Banks MP. You’d think with the money they’re paying themselves by way of salary and expenses that they could do a bit better than cut and paste or pro forma letters. Incidentally the letter was addressed to both my wife and myself although we had contacted him separately. Must be watching the postal expenses although I’d have thought a return email would have been cheaper.

    34. mogabee says:

      It’s perfectly clear. To be a good unionist…

      Talk loudly and quickly over everyone else.

      Never, never reply to a query with an answer that makes any sense.

      And blame those cyberthingies for every “wrong” poll or faux pas.

      How difficult is it?

      Sounds like a good night last night at The Counting Hoose, spent many happy evenings in there! We had a very successful Grand Ceilidh in Campbeltown last night to raise funds and had a brilliant time. A really great turnout too. Well done to all especially Raibert McCallum (head Gaelic coach)!

    35. BuckieBraes says:

      All very well and good focusing on Labour’s obfuscation, but can someone remind me what specific proposals the Tories and Lib Dems have come up with for Scotland under the union?

      We had some waffle from Cameron and (who was it again?) Ming Campbell; but, really, I’m at a loss.

      Elements of the unionist media must be furious to see that their hoped-for promise of ‘more devolved powers’ to consolidate the No vote has almost entirely failed to materialise. Even if Labour can finally get its story straight on taxation, it’s still not exactly going to set the heather on fire.

      What we have now is pretty much what a No vote means, at best. Sorry media peeps: it can’t be spun any other way.

    36. caz-m says:

      All this positive talk for the “Union” is gettin me right in the mood for shoving oan ma British Army uniform and “head into battle to the skirl of the bagpipes…”.

      Quote from David Cameron, Conservative Party Spring Conference 5th April 2014.

    37. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      Tree of Liberty, Johann just dropped the chalice from the palace, so now the pellet with the poison’s in the flagon with the dragon, and the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true…

    38. Jamie Arriere says:

      “A likely solution”

      Mr Clarke doesn’t seem to think the policy’s even completed or fully-formed yet. I think the Devolution Commission needs to have a word with him – keep him in the warped snapped loop!

    39. caz-m says:

      Serious question.

      Have Scottish Labour to finalize anything regarding this document, are they having one final meeting about it or is what we know about it, all we are going to get to know about it.

      If you know what I mean.

      They even have me talking like them.

    40. joe kane says:

      Apparently, the iconic eyesore of the Red Tory Party devolution proposals are to be definitively explained as part of the opening ceremony of the Glasgow Commonwealth Games.

      The official Scottish Labour demolition of the positive case for independence will be held behind public-proof barriers where Scot Lab politicians will be safe from any dangerous straightforward questions asked by the press and the logic-defying replies making into it print.

      Millions are expected to tune in to the spectacle of the first sight of an actual, understandable Scottish Labour Party policy in years, apart from the obvious unwritten one of disagreeing with the SNP on everything and agreeing with the Tories on everything.

      Experts are confident the demolition ceremony will go without a hitch as long as microphones are kept a safe distance from the language-mangling disaster zones known as Johann Lamont and Margaret Curran. After all, there is only so much Scottish Labour-speak even the foreign-owned Scottish media are able to cope with at any one time.

    41. seanair says:

      Sorry O/T but saw from a bus in Edinburgh one of these giant screens proclaiming something like “success together”, with at the bottom in large letters “Scottish Labour”.
      Where did this organisation which doesn’t exist get the money from, and why are they going alone instead of under the Bitter Together umbrella? Signs of a schism perhaps but that would mean Labour falling out with their own Darling man and the Tories and Liberals too. Strange.

    42. SquareHaggis says:

      O/T

      But…

      Anyone seen this on youtube yet?

      Anonymous – Rothschilds & Malaysian Airlines MH370 Connection

      Makes me apprehensive for Alex Salmond to be honest.

      Any thoughts?

    43. Bill Fraser says:

      Of course Labour have a plan. They just don’t know what it is.

    44. CameronB says:

      Any thoughts?

      Whoooooo! For real.

    45. Croompenstein says:

      Once again Cameron preaches from afar..skirl of bagpipes ya f*cknut aye it wiz the sound of a f*ckin British Army whistle our soldiers went ‘over the top’ get up here ya fearty and debate with the man without a plan

    46. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just testing…

    47. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Spam attack tonight, Fire alarm last night …curiouser and curiouser….

    48. scottish_skier says:

      Like this needs to be pointed out, but hey ho:

      http://archive.is/mkQhs

      On Saturday, the opening day of the two-day spring conference, Mr Clegg said it was “no secret” that his Conservative coalition partners in government at Westminster are “not the strongest advocates of further devolution”.

      Mr Clegg accused Labour leader Ed Miliband of making a “half-baked promise” on devolution at his party’s Welsh conference, last weekend.

      “Unlike other parties, we are a democratic party

    49. Croompenstein says:

      @BuckieBraes@1:23 – I thought the one on the left was Joe Pesci as David Ferrie in Oliver Stone’s JFK. Must have been the eyebrows..

    50. Lee Rogers says:

      Testing…

    51. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      gonna be a poll out soon i hear.

    52. StevieMcB says:

      Me too.

    53. twenty14 says:

      hello london

    54. Jim T says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 9:10pm

      does seem odd. Not completing a page refresh.

    55. Lanarkist says:

      Just sending this to see if comments still affected!

      Page refresh.

    56. Jim T says:

      and now “Your comment is awaiting moderation”

      Alice in Wonderland time.

    57. jingly jangly says:

      kendomacaroonbar

      The fire alarm last night was in an office above the Counting House!!!

    58. Lanarkist says:

      Comment went through alright! Although waiting moderation still showing.

      Page refresh still seems to work though!

    59. Alba4Eva says:

      Woo… looks like we are back in business.

    60. wee_monsieur says:

      Gutted I missed the Wings meet-up last night. When is the next one?

      btw, the Wikipedia entry for the ‘Streisand Effect’ has been updated to include our friends at SPT πŸ™‚

    61. big_al says:

      @Rev

      I’m available 11th – 14th to meet Mr Leery (don’t do twitter)

    62. Croompenstein says:

      FFS you let them oot for one night and..meltdoon!

    63. DougtheDug says:

      From a Labour standpoint it doesn’t matter what they promise because it’s not going to happen anyway so they haven’t bothered that hard. They only thing they’ve done wrong is not keeping the story consistent.

      If it’s a no vote then positive changes to the Scotland Act and to Scotland’s funding will become politically superfluous. Why pander to a Scottish electorate that’s just spiked its only threat?

    64. HandandShrimp says:

      Scottish Skier

      Ming said you couldn’t put a time scale on consensus πŸ™‚

    65. Seasick Dave says:

      twenty14

      Great avatar!

      I can see your nuts.

    66. Silverytay says:

      O/T
      I was up in Perth today where I encountered a flock of the rarely spotted ukok’ers in Perth city centre , fortunately most of these looked to be off the tory variety and very few of the innocent passer-by’s stopped to be infected by these rare creatures .

    67. Marcia says:

      Interesting;

      ‘New Panelbase poll cuts unionist lead to six points in record high for Yes in Sunday Times’.

    68. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Wee Monsieur

      Please tell me where I can see this updating of the Wikipedia explanation of the Streisand effect, to include the recent SPT gaffe? Have googled it again in the light of your comment, but can’t see any SPT ref? Am I missing something?

      I would LOVE to send a link to it to a friend I was discussing this with the other day….

    69. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @Jingly Jangly

      False alarm ?

    70. twenty14 says:

      @seasick dave – there’s squirrels and there’s cybernat squirrels πŸ™‚

    71. The Man in the Jar says:

      Just a test but the “loading” icon is still spinning. Odd!

    72. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Sundat Times front page; Yes vote neck and neck

      https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/452555554854944768/photo/1

    73. heedtracker says:

      My chrome and firefox refresh thing keeps going round and round on WoS page.

    74. Jim T says:

      @Quinie frae Angus 10:06

      It was there. You need to go into the “Edit” tab (top right of page) and you’ll see a few entries by “Resurgam99” but with a top entry by “Dmol” which states that it was removed because it didn’t “mention the effect”.

      You can see the entries if you click on the “Cur/Prev” links.

    75. KennyC says:

      It seems like the Sunday Times is stealing Stu’s thunder- reporting the WOS Panelbase poll already!

      http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1396930.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_04_05

      Looking good!

    76. wee_monsieur says:

      Quinie,

      weird – it seems to have been erased. Will repost shortly.

    77. Jim T says:

      @Quinie frae Angus

      Apologies – meant the “View History” tab

      Oops

    78. jingly jangly says:

      kendomacaroonbar

      Yup got us excited for a wee while through!!! and it basically gave us the pub to ourselves as all the punters buggered off to pastures new.

    79. JillP says:

      Still no sign of my post from late last night.

      RIP Margo. I’m sure she’ll be up there guiding many a pencil to the YES box on 18 September

    80. feedhunter says:

      Just for clarification purposes can we have the sources for these comments Rev. An unnamed Unite secretary refuses to acknowledge them as direct quotes solely as they came via this website. This source also confirmed via an EIS member that an Inverclyde school has been viewad as biased towards the no campaign in terms of their information to 16-18 year olds however this will be rectified soon. Is there a 6 month timescale on this Mr McCabe LOL.

    81. Thepnr says:

      Can anybody help? How do I post a link to a picture?

    82. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Just for clarification purposes can we have the sources for these comments Rev. An unnamed Unite secretary refuses to acknowledge them as direct quotes solely as they came via this website.”

      The Lamont one was from Newsnight Scotland, the others from letters sent to constituents. The one from Baker was copied by dozens of other MPs/MSPs and sent to their constituents too.

    83. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Jim T and Wee Monsieur

      Thanks for your replies – I will keep looking in.

    84. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Jim T and Wee Monsieur

      Thanks for your replies – I will keep looking in.

    85. CameronB says:

      Thepnr
      Click through to the pic you want to post.
      Copy address in the browser window.
      Paste here, there and all over the place.

      I think. πŸ˜‰

    86. wee_monsieur says:

      Quinie and Jim T…

      the Wiki page on the Streisand Effect, now mentions our friends at SPT. See examples.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

    87. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Hi Wee Monsieur

      Yes, thanks for that, I have seen it….and posted it! Brilliant.

    88. joe kane says:

      The Scottish Labour Party attempts to illogically piggy-back its Housing Benefit plans (stolen from the nationwide grassroots anti-bedroom tax campaign) on to its Universal Credit plans (stolen from the Tories), as part of its Devo Nano proposals, looks like its going to hit a wee problem in Scotland. UC doesn’t actually work, hasn’t been made to work, and doesn’t look like it is ever going to work.

      It’s quite something that it’s taken two years for the Scottish Labour Party to end up using the same evidence-free, belief system as Tory loonies such as IDS – and yet also manages to do the seeming impossible by making this thick, snobby, raving sociopath out to be more coherent and cogent than they are.

      Scottish Government report –
      Universal Credit Trials Fail in Scotland
      http://aworkingclassman.com/universal-credit-trials-fails-in-scotland/

    89. Craig says:

      Well, they are absolutely CLEAR about that then.

      It seems the word ‘CLEAR’ has been recently embedded into the genes of every Labour politician, Milliband upwards.

      If only some interviewer could tell one of them: How can that be clear to anyone when even you don’t understand it?



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