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Wings Over Scotland


It’s not enough to spectate

Posted on August 12, 2013 by

The Scottish media has adopted a uniform silence over the results of last week’s Panelbase poll. We can simply accept that, or we can stand up and challenge it.

bbcscot

The BBC is funded by a compulsory tax, enforced by law. You pay for it to serve you. If you think it’s been abdicating its duty, why not ring BBC Radio Scotland’s phone-in show “Call Kaye” (presented by stand-in Louise Smith) this morning from 8.50am – lines actually open at 8am – and let them know how you feel about it?

By phone: 0500 92 95 00
By text: 80295
By email: callkaye [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk

Please be polite. If you call but don’t get on, or your text or email isn’t used, please tell us in the comments section below. (In the case of text or email, include a copy.)

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    163 to “It’s not enough to spectate”

    1. Gordon Bain says:

      And don’t use the same phone twice. Unless you get through and go with the flow you won’t get a second chance from the same phone.

    2. Edward Barbour says:

      Would it not be an idea to copy (Cc) in Wings over Scotland on an e-mail to Call Kaye or blind copy (Bcc) ?

    3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Would it not be an idea to copy (Cc) in Wings over Scotland on an e-mail to Call Kaye or blind copy (Bcc)?”

      It would, but we don’t publish our email address on the internet because if you do you get absolutely swamped in spam. (That’s why we use a Contact page instead.) If you happen to know it already, though, please do CC us.

    4. Susan MacNee says:

      Great idea! Here’s what I just emailed:
      “Can you explain why, in what hasn’t been a busy week in politics, the BBC hasn’t reported on the Panelbase Scottish opinion poll commissioned by Wings Over Scotland, which made significant findings such as the fact that over two thirds of Scots don’t believe there will be any more powers for the Scottish Parliament if there’s a No vote in the referendum?
       
      It is very difficult to make a case that the Scottish media is presenting the public with unbiased coverage of the independence debate when polls like this are met with a wall of silence across all broadcasters and newspapers.
       
      Is every single BBC reporter in Scotland fully employed in speculation about the Edinburgh Zoo pandas? Or are you just embarrassed that only 6% of Scots polled thought the media was doing its job of providing the people with enough information about independence to make up their minds?”

    5. Jiggsbro says:

      Would it not be an idea to copy (Cc) in Wings over Scotland on an e-mail to Call Kaye or blind copy (Bcc) ?
       
      I think it might be easier – for the good Rev, at least – for individuals to C&P their emails here, rather than send them all to a single person and ask that person to format and post them all.

    6. Murray McCallum says:

      Email off Rev.  I used your 10 bullet points and provided the link to full Panelbase results.
       
      I suggested it would be good to hear an open discussion on what exactly the role of the media could be in the run up to the referendum.

    7. Betsy says:

      Just sent my email off will copy over later but right now I NEED to catch a bus.

    8. Jo macdonald says:

      Sent the email asking why the Panelbase survey was ignored by the Scottish media and like Murray I copied a link to the bullet points

    9. Another London Dividend says:

      Good coverage on Newsnet with examples of other polls BBC quoted.
      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/7848-the-scottish-media-and-the-poll-that-never-was
       

    10. Bob Leslie says:

      Sent as below:
      “Why is it that the BBC, a publicly-funded organisation, has failed to report the latest Panelbase opinion poll on issues relating to the Referendum vote? It’s not as if we’ve been swamped by major political news this week, and the BBC assiduously report every other poll on the issue. Can it be that it is because, for once, the poll was commissioned by a pro-Independence group? Surely not! After all, the BBC is famed for its even-handedness, is it not? Therefore, may I ask when you are going to comment on the poll?
      http://www.panelbase.com/news/WingsOverScotlandScottishPoll090813.pdf  “

    11. Pilar says:

      Done! Congratulations on the survey and good luck with the Referendum

    12. Caroline Corfield says:

      Here’s my text. Sorry but I won’t be listening for it. I have enough bloos pressure triggers as it is. Is there a reason that a Panelbase poll has been totally ignored throughout the Scottish media, could it be the finding that with regard to the independence debate only 6% of Scots think that “It gives me enough solid, reliable information about independence to make a decision”. In a democracy with a compulsory ‘crowd funded’ broadcaster isn’t that worrying? 
       

    13. Robert Kerr says:

      Hi Rev.
       
      Your poll is on Wiki at least.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
      ref 151.
      It shall get out there.
      Hail Caesar!

    14. Bruce Hosie says:

      here mine:
      Dear Louise
       
      I am emailing you this morning to express my concern at the lack of coverage of an important public funded poll by panelbase in Scotland and commisioned by Wings Over Scotland. Neither the BBC or media in general have given this poll any air time or coverage at all.
       
      BBC Scotland has covered many polls since the start of the referendum debate and ahead of next years vote. These have included the the Glasgow Student Referendum Vote, 16/17 year olds voting intentions etc but for some reason have seen fit to not mention this poll. As a licence payer, and given I have no choice, I would expect that BBC Scotland report all major polls to ensure balance and impartiality in this vital debate.
       
      In fact your own charter states that the BBC:
       

      1.3.1
      The BBC’s Editorial Values, and the Editorial Guidelines, are rooted in the Royal Charter and the Agreement.
      The Royal Charter guarantees the editorial independence of the BBC and sets out its Public Purposes. These are defined as:

      sustaining citizenship and civil society
      promoting education and learning
      stimulating creativity and cultural excellence
      representing the UK, its nations, regions and communities
      bringing the UK to the world and the world to the UK
      in promoting its other purposes, helping to deliver to the public the benefit of emerging communications technologies and services and, in addition, taking a leading role in the switchover to digital television.

      1.3.2
      The Agreement accompanying the BBC Charter specifies that we should do all we can “to ensure that controversial subjects are treated with due accuracy and impartiality” in our news and other output dealing with matters of public policy or political or industrial controversy.  It also states that our output is forbidden from expressing the opinion of the BBC on current affairs or matters of public policy, other than broadcasting or the provision of online services.  The Accuracy, Impartiality and Politics, Public Policy and Polls sections of the Editorial Guidelines incorporate the BBC Trust’s code as required under Paragraph 44 (5) of the Agreement, giving guidance as to the rules to be observed in connection with Paragraphs 44(1) to 44(4) of the Agreement.

      1.3.3
      In addition, the Agreement forbids any BBC service funded by the licence fee or grant-in-aid from carrying advertising or sponsored programmes.  To protect editorial integrity and independence, the BBC has drawn up its own guidelines on standards for advertising and sponsorship for its commercial television and online services.
       
      By ignoring such a poll, especially one funded by the general public, showing engagement in the political process is beyond myself. I feel that BBC Scotland has been remis in it’s duty to the public and is at serious risk of giving the public the impression that BBC Scotland decides the news we are allowed to see rather than report the news which is happening within our country. That does imply an impartial, honest and fair service for the tax payer.
       
      It is becoming increasingly clear that in reporting every anti-independence stories or negative stories such as Labour for Indepedence ‘ not ‘ being infliltrated by the SNP BBC Scotland would appear to have an anti-democratic editorial policy at it’s heart and no longer meets either it’s charter responsibilities or the trust of the general public. I hope that you will consider this email and ensure that editorial staff have the opportunity to view it as I feel my feelings will not be in the monority in this instance.
       
      Thank You
       
      Bruce Hosie

    15. Moujick says:

      Stu,
      as rightly pointed out by yourself there is a massive disctinction between the BBC (public funded with a supposedly public service remit) and newspapers. The panelbase poll shines a light on the Scottish media as a whole. Maybe the next one could focus more on the BBC in particular?

    16. dee says:

      At the moment the programme is discussing ginger hair.  They are interviewing an English woman about how she ended up with red hair. This topic has came up after it was highlighted at a rally in Edinburgh at the weekend regarding redheads.  They really have their finger on the pulse of the nation. There is a certain rally coming up in Edinburgh in September, do you think that BBC Scotland will show the same commitment and concerns after that rally. I don’t think so. I for one, will be reminding them on the Friday before the rally, just in case they forget.

    17. scotchwoman says:

      You could also send your message to BBC Scotland newsdesk (if you can find a contact for it – it’s not listed on the main BBC news contact page, amongst the dozens of other options!). Or post it on BBC Scotland News facebook page.

    18. Helen Yates says:

      Have just sent my e-mail asking why the results of this poll are being ignored, I won’t hold my breath waiting for a reply

    19. Luigi says:

      The most effective use of the WoS poll results, particularly the “18% would not vote to rejoin the union” will be when a BBC reporter or commentator spouts during a debate or interview that only a minority support Scottish independence.  What a marvellous piece of ammo to fire back in their faces.  They won’t like to hear it.  Challenge a suitable noron target, and you may see a fuse blow, live on TV!
       
      Keep up the pressure – it’s getting to them!

    20. Gordon Bain says:

      I’d be interested to hear folks’ logic in sending off-topic e-mails to a phone-in. 🙁

    21. Adam Davidson says:

      my e-mail shown below. I kept it light to avoid getting their backs up. I’ve had no reply and am shocked but not surprised they consider whiners about being ginger are more important.

      Kaye,
      I would love to take part in any debate on the results of last weeks Panelbase poll which should have serious implications for the independence debate. An interesting topic would be the lack of trust in print media and the lack of trust of the key movers and shakers for each side of the campaign. This is a massively important poll and I hope the BBC will to not chose to follow the print media in ignoring it given how little is happening on the political front elsewhere.

      Regards
      Adam B Davidson

    22. The Man in the Jar says:

      Done. I have requested a reply and will post it here. Don’t hold your breath!

    23. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’d be interested to hear folks’ logic in sending off-topic e-mails to a phone-in.”

      It’s not just a phone-in. It invites emails and texts too. And if it’s not covered today, we’ll still have made the point that the subject needs addressing. When they’re deciding tomorrow’s topic, they can’t pretend they weren’t made aware.

    24. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Challenge a suitable noron target”

      As I’ve said a fair few times recently, I don’t think language like “noron” will win us any converts from among the undecided, Luigi.

    25. heraldnomore says:

      Stu, you’ll have realised your prime error – you didn’t ask a question about red hair….

    26. Ronnie says:

      Sent my email to ‘Call Kaye’ at 14.30 yesterday, so as to give them time to prepare their programme for its inclusion;
      ‘I trust that, as the results of this poll, commissioned by Wings Over Scotland and crowdfunded by its readers, were so significant, that you will be discussing these important findings on your programme tomorrow?’
       
      Nada.
       
      Are you ginger, RevStu? If so, might have got on!

    27. Red squirrel says:

      Last week pandas, this week gingers – best keep the masses entertained & ignorant of what is actually happening out there. Just how stupid do MSM believe we are when this brilliant crowd-funded gem is easily accessible? 

    28. Adam Davidson says:

      I have added your 10 points to a comment in the royal referendum article in today’s Herald. I managed to find a comment where it was relevant and removed the two points that are critical of the media to make it really hard for the Herald to justify removal. I have mentioned it in 3 other posts over the weekend. So far so good.  

    29. Jiggsbro says:

      I’d be interested to hear folks’ logic in sending off-topic e-mails to a phone-in.
       
      To ask why they’re off-topic.

    30. Henry Hooper says:

      Great idea Stu..my email (…..just sent) stated
       
      “Last week the results of a poll were released by PanelBase which has not been reported by any of the mainstream media.
      The results of this poll I would have though would have been extremely interesting to anyone with an interest in next years referendum, i.e. everyone in Scotland .
      Since this is an open forum, with compulsory tax-payer support,  the question i would like to ask is…
       
      ….What is the general view as to why the results of this poll are unreported, given that without exception the scope and depth of EVERY other poll is reported and analysed typically at great length?”
       
      Keep up the great work Stu…I and so many other appreciate it

    31. Ronnie says:

      Also sent to ‘Scotland Tonight’ –
       
      Niente, so far…..

    32. NorthBrit says:

      @RevStu
      Can you correct intro (not quite uniform silence)?  As you pointed out on your own tweet, the Daily Record has covered your poll, in a grown up way, on page 2 of today’s paper.  That’s about as much prominence as I would have expected it to get.
       
      Perhaps some of your Scottish residents should go out and buy a copy – and point out the article a bit.

    33. Jiggsbro says:

      the Daily Record has covered your poll, in a grown up way, on page 2 of today’s paper
       
      By cherry-picking a single result that can be used to attack Alex Salmond? That’s how grown-ups behave in North Britain, is it?

    34. Somebody says:

      Here’s my e-mail:
       
      “Dear Louise,
       
      It has been a relatively quiet week in Scottish politics, with Alex Salmond refraining from waving any Scottish flags behind David Cameron’s head. There has, in fact, been some significant points related to the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum that the BBC has not reported.
       
      I’m talking about – of course- the Panelbase Poll commissioned by political blog Wings Over Scotland (WoS).  The following page has a rundown of what the poll discovered:
       
      http://wingsoverscotland.com/bullet-points/
       
      It’s a shame the BBC has refused to report on this. As the BBC is funded by the public’s own money, surely the public have a right to know what’s going on in relation to their referendum? 
       
      Thank you
       
      Sincerely,”

    35. Adam Davidson says:

      The BBC will use the excuse, they were already discussing a poll today (male/female boss) so couldn’t use two.

    36. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The BBC will use the excuse, they were already discussing a poll today (male/female boss) so couldn’t use two.”

      Sure. But as I said, they have subjects to choose for tomorrow.

    37. Luigi says:

      Yep Rev, a deserved slap on the wrist.  I guess I had one of the usual suspects who are leading the BT campaign in mind when I mentioned “noron” but I understand it could be taken out of context and used as an insult to no voters in general.  Apologies to anyone offended.

    38. Murray McCallum says:

      I also sent a polite message about Panelbase poll findings to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10725415
       
      It invites ideas for stories and for people to contact the BBC.  I provided a link to the Rev’s bullet points and full results.  In the cover letter I drew out the concern from voters around poor information and bias.  Given the historic importance of the 2014 referendum for the whole UK I was concerned that maybe public funded bodies were not doing enough to provide unbliased, value-added information to the voters.

    39. ken mcdonald says:

      Pinged off a text asking why Panelbase Poll funded by Joe Public was not worthy of comment was puzzling to me.

    40. wullie says:

      make sure everyone wears a RED WIG at the rally in September.

    41. NorthBrit says:

      @Jiggsbro
      It has a picture of Darling on it and it quotes the facts, which are worse for BT than Salmond.  

      I bet you the other side will see this as bias the other way, for picking a stat that shows Salmond is three times more trusted than Darling and that almost no-one believes Darling, this below Darling’s map, a picture saying a thousand words.

      Record tweeted RevStu for the tables and then published on page 2 on the first available day, without any of the garbage he got from e.g. the Mail.

      I think we all hope that RevStu will be doing more polls and I’d like to see him maintain progress.

    42. seoc says:

      There’s the Scottish Media
      and there’s the media in Scotland.

    43. Training Day says:

      Complaint sent to the BBC as follows:
       
       
      “Please explain why the BBC in Scotland has not afforded any coverage to a Panelbase poll on Scottish independence commisioned by the online blog Wings over Scotland.  Data has been available from the poll since Friday 9th August and your correspondent James Cook is aware of the poll’s existence as confirmed on his twitter account.  Yet there has been no coverage, which is particularly puzzling given that the BBC in Scotland regularly covers polls on Scottish independence.
      I look forward to receiving an explanation.”
       
      I expect to receive the usual assertions about fairness and integrity completely unsupported by any evidence but will keep people posted.
       

    44. Morag says:

      By cherry-picking a single result that can be used to attack Alex Salmond? That’s how grown-ups behave in North Britain, is it?
       
      There was one other newspaper mention of the poll, and again it cherry-picked a minor point to spin the a negative story.  (Sorry, I don’t think I can easily find the reference in the multitude of articles here!)

      I think a good article could be made by collecting all the sparse mainstream coverage and pointing out the dire spin in comparison to what the poll results actually showed.  Heck, even NNS put in a negative dig when they criticised the headline 36/34/30 result as being from a badly designed question, when in fact they had failed to spot that their criticism was entirely misplaced.

      NNS possibly just made a mistake, and of course they never correct mistakes even if someone manages to get past the wall of censorship and point them out, but it’s absolutely clear that the Record and the earlier paper were deliberately combing through the figures for something negative to say.

    45. Jon D says:

      Using M McCallum’s link, above, I have sent;
       The latest panelbase survey; http://www.panelbase.com/news/WingsOverScotlandScottishPoll090813.pdf, raises more questions than it answers and as such provides a fascinating basis for lively debate both on television and radio. As an insight into voters current thinking on the referendum and associated issues I am sure you will not want to let this opportunity pass you by.

    46. Morag says:

      I bet you the other side will see this as bias the other way, for picking a stat that shows Salmond is three times more trusted than Darling and that almost no-one believes Darling, this below Darling’s map, a picture saying a thousand words.
       
      I think cherry-picking the stat for how many people believe that someone is always telling the truth is mischievous.  I know RevStu did it with MacDougall as a teaser, but that was just a teaser.  Even then, I thought, well for goodness sake, is there any single live breathing human being I would say always tells the truth about anything?  Probably not.  I’m surprised any of them got any points on that one.
       
      However, RevStu did a proper article examining the figures in detail, showing the gradations of trust between always telling the truth and always lying (both of which extremes are unrealistic for anyone).  The take-home message was that while voters are fairly sceptical of all politicians in the truthfulmess department, all the Yes side are better trusted than the No side.
       
      A headline saying that only 6% of respondents think Salmond always tells the truth is simply dishonest reporting.

    47. Clarinda says:

      Done – and jigged my question towards the female vote intentions and attempted to link it to the growing ‘Don’t Know’ element which ought to be a reasonable hypothesis judging by many of my female friends who are becoming less shy of giving voice to their political thinking.
      Along with many others here – I don’t expect any significant reaction – but TPTB/MSM need our consistent positive attitude to remind them they are well and truly rumbled as to their inept and unbalanced political output.

    48. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Murray McCallum
      That’s a good link. I will email it later when I have the time.
      Also good work people! Lets keep the pressure on.

    49. Stephen Mclaren says:

      I sent them an email this morning asking if they have noticed a slide in their viewing figures because there must be many of us turning off.
      I also wrote to Offcom a few weeks ago about BBC bias and propaganda.
      I haven’t heard back from them yet.
      I think a poll specifically targeted towards the BBC in Scotland would be great.
      The papers have no obligation to be impartial but the BBC are supposed to be.
      Keep up the great work!

    50. Morag says:

      Sorry forgot to italicise that first paragraph as a quote, and was blocked from editing immediately by a simultaneous post.

    51. gordoz says:

      Just sent off //
      Sorry Louise : but have to ask, what is happening at BBC Scotland ?
       
      For several months now viewers and listeners have perceived a bias towards ‘Better Together’ campaign
      and the use of ‘fear and warnings’ before coverage of YES campaign. Particularly on news programmes and Newsnight Scotland.
      This is now self evident in the complete ‘black out’ of a weekend Panelbase poll on the Scottish referendum.
      Worse than this there seems to be a blanket / blackout from the entire Scottish media.
      Since we have yet to hear anything at all from the No Scotland campaigners (good or bad)  – is this not strange ?
      Can someone please discuss this on air ?? If this rising public opinion suspicious of the media and particularly the BBC is wrong can BBC Scotland at least comment.
      to say we are wrong or will this have to go through Whitehall (seriously).
       
      regards
      Gordz
      Wont  hold breath

    52. Vronsky says:

      I wouldn’t be too despondent about this, or angry either.  We’ve known for decades that the media, including and especially the BBC, will campaign openly against anything that seems remotely threatening to the British State.  They’re quite simply impotent: none of the mud they threw, the lies they told or the truths they buried, prevented the rapid progression of the SNP from minority protest movement to majority government.  In fact I think we should remember how that was achieved: it was by keeping calm and carrying on. 
       
      If the BBC is comfortable ignoring a genocide in the Middle East I see little hope that ignoring a privately commissioned opinion poll will prick its conscience. 

    53. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “By cherry-picking a single result that can be used to attack Alex Salmond? That’s how grown-ups behave in North Britain, is it?”

      In so far as it goes I think it’s a fair enough report. It leads with Salmond but pictures Darling, and the wording is accurate and balanced.

    54. Morag says:

      Well, if you say so.  But I think leading with Salmond under the circumstances is typical headline spin.

    55. Alabaman says:

      Rev,
      good results, they really need publishing so that the public can read and digest the findings,
      if the daily press won’t , do you think the likes of “The Big Issue” would?, I know it has a
      a limited cover, but “needs must”

    56. gordoz says:

      Not a peep !
      There you go

      Would the METRO not cover this ??

    57. Murray McCallum says:

      Just noticed Channel4 news are visiting Edinburgh on 23rd August http://www.channel4.com/news/c4-news-pop-up-economic-recovery-economy-british-business-uk
       
      They are ACTIVELY seeking stories and for people to get in touch.  In their picture of Edinburgh they specifically refer to the independence debate.  They provide means to get in touch:
      So get in touch – tweet us @channel4news using the hashtag #c4newspopup, or email us on c4newspopup [at] itn [dot] co [dot] uk
       

    58. SCED300 says:

      Also interesting and relevant is the article on Newsnet, covering the Poll, and the scoop they had about the European Commission lying about Catalonia’s status in the EU, if it became independent. The EC had been leaned on by Madrid to change information and deny that a Vice-President of the EC had given positive information about Catalonia in the EU.
      The relevance to discussions here was that the Spanish media, newspapers and broadcasters, covered the story! However it was not mentioned in UK media. No difficulty guessing why, it would strengthen the statements about Scotland in the EU and undermine the narrative of the BBC and newspapers here that their would be massive difficulties for Scotland. It would also undermine the attacks on Salmond.
      The core of the ‘establishment’ is rotten. Considering there is going to be £50million spent on ‘teaching’ the UK about WW1, we need look no further than this propaganda and news manipulation to see how Governments, the media and politicians direct how the population think and see the world. Serious lessons here.
       

    59. Ron Burgundy says:

      Sent this but zippo – Red headed people, male female bosses and mental health
      Worse than the Soviet Union easier to get a letter printed in Pravda slagging off Stalin
      Dear Kaye

      Are you aware of a new Panelbase opinion poll conducted last week about the Independence debate which has very very interesting results.

      I only ask because this Palelbase poll has received no media coverage at all over the weekend. Some of the key results are

      Scots planning to vote No 36%
      Scots planning to vote Yes 34%
      ( a gap of just 2% and much narrower than we are given to believe )

      67% of Scots polled did not believe Holyrood would be given extra powers in the event of a No vote

      Only 18% of Scots polled would vote to join the Union if Scotland were an independent country.

      The full set of results are on the Panelbase website and it is a mystery to me why no media outlet has reported on them – What does the panel think about this

      All the best

    60. Jiggsbro says:

      In so far as it goes I think it’s a fair enough report.
       
      It does seem an odd result to pick, though, given that it’s the least interesting one. ‘People think politicos lie’ is hardly news, but it’s probably the only result that allows them to attack Alex Salmond and not challenge the BT media narrative.

    61. Morag says:

      Frazzle Dazzle Darling made a fantastic post in the “Quoted for Truth #27” thread that was mainly overlooked as it was right on the bottom.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/quoted-for-truth-27/#comment-464656

      If this was happening in the Middle East, or Eastern Europe, or probably Latin America, the BBC and the British media would be all-out supportive of the plucky independence supporters.  If it was Libya, they’d probably send the troops in to support us.  The media bias would be highlighted and criticised, and the heavy-handed and overbearing actions of the State compared to soviet Russia or suchlike.

      It seems to me they are totally lacking in self-awareness in this present situation.  They believe so implicitly in the rightness of their own position they don’t even examine it.  This is just a silly stunt by a cybernat web site, nothing to see here folks, they’re doing it for publicity and we won’t give them that.  Never mind that they’ll give plenty publicity to genuinely silly stunts if it tickles their fancy, and headling all sorts of unrepresentative polling so long as this favours a No vote.  That’s justified, because we all know that No is the overwhelmingly popular position, don’t we?

      That they are behaving like Pravda at its worst won’t even occur to them.  That maybe the journalists at Pravda in the 1960s also believed in what they were doing and that they were honestly reporting the agenda isn’t something they think about.  If they judge an action right, it’s right.  Especially if it’s something they’re doing themselves.  But if someone else does it in circumstances they disapprove of, it’s a different story.

      Of course, if what Stu says about them clamouring for the raw data on Friday is true, it’s an even worse situation.  It suggests they were salivating to get their hands on it and cherry-pick and spin something to their agenda, but then they found the cupboard was pretty bare on that front and decided to ignore it completely.

      You’d wonder how anyone could behave like this and still cherish the illusion that they’re in the right and even-handed, but I think they do.

    62. Craig P says:

      If you want a poll covered on the BBC, next time include a question about corncrakes. The RSPB has a hotline straight to the BBC Scotland newsdesk. Not complaining (I like wildlife), just an observation. 

    63. Cath says:

      Channel 4 are by far and away the best of the news programmes. They at least seem interested in what’s happening, and in giving a fair crack to both sides. They’re best on all coverage, not just Scotland. Massively better for international too.

    64. Cath says:

      “Of course, if what Stu says about them clamouring for the raw data on Friday is true, it’s an even worse situation.”
       
      Certainly Better Together (Blair, I think) was very quick to Tweet demanding to know  why publication of the full tables had been put back. I think – Stu will know better – that enraged tweet was about half an hour after they were originally due to be published.

    65. Bruce Hosie says:

      Sat through that rubbish and shocking that this poll was not even mentioned. EBC it is then.
       
       

    66. Barontorc says:

      It’s a complete waste of time and breath complaining to the BBC about the BBC. It is a UK government propaganda tool  and is designed to repel any attack on the UK establishment system.
       
      The fly in their ointment is that they have a legally compulsory licence to be paid to own and use a TV, which by all accounts is an illegally enforced pursuit in terms of European law, which the UK is signatory to and thereby is bit of a problem.
       
      They also have an inflexible Code of Conduct and Standards, which states they will provide a PBS without partiality or bias, but now riddled with subsequent malpractice, compounded by a consistent refusal to accept it has happened and if it takes two to tango and if one partner refuses to move their feet, you ain’t dancing or going  to be anytime soon, so what can be done?
       
      So we are faced with the obvious,  the TV licence requirement has to be challenged as supported by EC legislation. Could this be a class action?

    67. Morag says:

      …. and the scoop they had about the European Commission lying about Catalonia’s status in the EU, if it became independent. The EC had been leaned on by Madrid to change information and deny that a Vice-President of the EC had given positive information about Catalonia in the EU.
       
      I just read that, here.  http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/6071-exclusive-european-commission-changes-vice-presidents-catalonia-remarks-after-pressure-from-madrid

      I didn’t see it at the time.  I agree with them, it’s a red-hot scoop and absolute dynamite.  Stellar journalism, that one.  No surprise that didn’t get wider coverage though.  (And quite sad that NNS has alienated me so much that I didn’t read it in October, too.) 

    68. DonnyWho says:

      there are things we can do! closer to the date we can all set our printers on overdrive.
      What i am sugesting is a distributed media love bombing. What if each and everyone of us printed a newsletter, twosided A4 folded down to A5. this gives you four pages to play with. If we have stories and links to real hard facts and an up beat tone then this could be very effective.
      Imagine 20,000 of us printing 20 copies and distributing it to our close once a week for the last two months of the debate! that is citizen power, a little done by a lot works well, and we can counter the propaganda that the MSM will surely spout!

    69. NorthBrit says:

      SLab posters on Twitter currently trying to attack Panelbase.  If you don’t like the message, shoot the messenger.  
       
      This does however provide an opportunity.  RevStu could just run with exactly the same questions with another polling company, at a time of his choosing.

    70. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Of course, if what Stu says about them clamouring for the raw data on Friday is true”

      This is an email I got from Panelbase on Thursday evening:

      “People misinterpreted your post about the next results being at 5 so have been hounding our office for the tables. Think you’ve stirred up a bit of a storm! We’re deflecting them till tomorrow but also confirming that the results you’ve reported so far are correct.”

    71. Sylvie Capuano Burnett says:

      I have emailed Call Kaye and I have also emailed the European press,with a copy of your Poll asking them to publish it.

    72. Robert says:

      Sent yesterday:
       
      Hi,

      Can I ask why it is that the Scottish media (en-mass) has chosen to ignore the results of the latest poll on the subject of independence, carried out by the eminent polling organisation Panel base on behalf of Wings over Scotland?
      Yet it continues to use the results of outdated polls in its output?

      Are they afraid of the results?

      Regards,

       

    73. dee says:

      Sent email to Call Kaye,,
           I would be grateful if you would have a phone-in regarding crowdfunded polls. Do you think that there could be a new trend in the way the Scottish people can get their message out to a wider public.  This follows a recent poll that was undertaken by the respected Panelbase polling company on behalf of “Wings over Scotland”. The findings in the poll were fascinating and deserve to be discussed. They gave a great insight into the way public opinion is shaping the referendum debate. The fact that it was publicly funded is surely a topic worth debating and hope that this can be organised for sometime this week.
      From a BBC subscriber.
       So I am trying to come from a different angle, by trying to get a debate up and running regarding crowdfunded polls, rather than pushing the WOS poll. We will see what happens, Their inbox must be bulging today with WOS polling data. If they hadn’t heard of it yesterday, they sure as hell have heard of it today. Keep up the good work REV.
      YES 2014..

    74. Max says:

      The Scottish media know full well the devastating findings of this poll. The journalist profession are deeply embarrassed by them. They are angry, resentful at what Scots really thinks of their profession, and have shown contempt for those who conducted this poll by trying to ignore. 
       
      But we won’t, and in reality the cowardly Scottish media know that they can’t ignore these findings either. For over the next 12 months of this campaign every single Scottish voter will come to learn not to trust the Scottish media over the independence question.  
       
      I doubt the Scottish media as we know it will survive a Yes victory. They will be seen by the Scottish electorate as having lied to us all the way. That trust has gone and needs to be rebuilt by others untainted. 
       
      Scotland’s Shame – The Scottish Media. 
       

    75. DMyers says:

      “Morag says: …is there any single live breathing human being I would say always tells the truth about anything?”
       
      Other than Jackie Baillie, I cannot think of a single person who always tells the truth…

    76. tartanfever says:

      Disagree with Cath.
      C4 can be absolutely horrific. I’ve witnessed Jon Snow accuse Alex Salmond of taking ‘none of the debt and all of the oil’ and there dreadful economic reporter Faisal whats-his-name tell us that the banks were bailed out with taxpayers money to the tune of 100’s of billions of pounds. A massive exaggeration.
       
      I also remember a very cosy chat between Krishnan and Boris Johnson that just became a personal slagging match about Scotland. Apparently we didn’t deserve independence because we are a bunch of subsidy junkies but London did. 
       
      It seems that when it comes to Scotland, the blanket of stupidity comes down over all TV news outlets.

    77. Gizzit says:

      Where the poll fell down – it didn’t include a split of voting intentions by hair-colour.
       
      Basic schoolboy error there Rev.  Next time, to make the results more “newsworthy” we should differentiate between vegans and omnivores, Jedis and Wiccans, Android and iOS users, beardies and babyfaces.
       
      Still, there have been many links to the source stories on many news comments – time will tell if there has been a corresponding increase in Wings web traffic.

    78. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “SLab posters on Twitter currently trying to attack Panelbase”

      Links?

    79. Vincent McDee says:

      I blame it all on the name chosen for this site. WoS was never going to be appealing to the Scottish media. Maybe the Rev should give a good thougth to rename it
      Wings over NO Scotland.
       
      I’m quite sure it’ll work, and the truth is: we care a lot about the NO too.
      Am I right?
       

    80. Linda's Back says:

      Don’t forget the BBC is the glue that holds Britain together and look out for more British is Best programmes over the next 12 months leading up to the £50 million they are spending on celebrating the start of World War One (won by Britain alone).

    81. Jiggsbro says:

      Disagree with Cath.
      C4 can be absolutely horrific.
       
      Agree with both of you. It’s generally very good, even on Scottish stories, but occasionally the underlying London metropolitan ignorance/arrogance shites through. Apologies for typo.

    82. Max says:

       
      Perhaps what is called for is a follow-up poll in a few months time with the same questions being posed. I would be interesting to see if things change over time, especially people’s opinion of the Scottish media. 

    83. Seasick Dave says:

      I really hope that its a ginger panda that’s born and then Scotland really will be front page news around the world.

    84. NorthBrit says:

      @RevStu
      https://twitter.com/LouiseMortonUK/status/366608583669977088
      Said something so egregious that even Ergasiophobe had to disagree with it #astonishingnewdepths

      You should be familiar with the other one – claims to be SLab for independence.  So probably just astonishingly thick rather than malicious.

    85. Bill C says:

      Have sent an email to the BBC complaints website and asked for a reply.

    86. Scaraben says:

      I suspect that the BPC (British Propaganda Corporation) in Scotland is so implacably opposed to independence that any requirement to be fair and balanced in their coverage of political matters has, in their eyes, much in common with the dodo. Emails that dare to question their judgment or veracity will be ignored, even if they arrive by the thousand.
       
      Depriving them of a little bit of financial support may not be more effective, unless a significant percentage of people in Scotland do it, but every little helps. Remember that little more than half the money raised in licence fees in Scotland is spent in Scotland.
       
      I would cancel my TV licence except that I have not had one (or a TV) for several years now. Life without TV is possible, especially as there is always the iPlayer for the few programmes I do actually want to watch.

    87. wee162 says:

      Speaking of Channel 4, has anyone contacted Alex Thomson (his twitter is @alextomo)? He seemed genuinely surprised last year when covering the Rangers debacle regarding the Scottish press and their ethical failings. This (plus the Newsnet story re Catalonia also going completely unreported) might be something he’d be interested in covering. Channel 4 haven’t been shy about going against the rest of the media in terms of their agenda either, and they seem to give him quite a bit of leeway to follow up and understand stories.

    88. david says:

      i would add too morags querry that i too believe jackie baillie is the only person i would believe in this world. maybe anas sarwar too

    89. PRJ says:

      “Scotland’s Shame – The Scottish Media. ”
      Are they not wholly owned by English baised companies, therefore not Scottish Media.

    90. david says:

      has anyone read the latest calls from darling on the scottish economy ?. shouldnt this man know these answers ?, he was a chancelloer for goodness sake 

    91. Dave says:

      You could also ask Panelbase why your poll is not showing on their news section.
      https://www.panelbase.net/News.aspx
      Another idea is to issue a press release to Russia Today and STV. RT especially are very good on reporting on the referendum.
      Personally, the highlight of the poll for me was that the majority would not vote to join the UK today.

    92. Cath says:

      “People misinterpreted your post about the next results being at 5 so have been hounding our office for the tables. Think you’ve stirred up a bit of a storm!

      Interesting. Whip up a storm in the media, have them and BT clamouring for the tables. Yet no a peep. It surely can’t be that often it happens that the media are whipped up yet silent?

      It’s [C4] generally very good, even on Scottish stories, but occasionally the underlying London metropolitan ignorance/arrogance shites through.

      Oh don’t get me wrong. I said it seems genuinely interested and I think it does. Obviously that interest is from a London, metropolitan point of view so there will still be times you tear your hair out with the way they just get Scotland all wrong. Personally I think that total lack of understanding of Scotland down there is a strength for us.

      For example, having read the poll results, how bad a decision does sending a Tory up to stand on a Trident missile and tell Scotland we’d be getting a replacement, like it or not look?

    93. Dorothy Devine says:

      DMyers  you swine ! I had just taken a swig of coffee then!
       
      I have shouted on other sites about the poll and will continue so to do.

    94. Morag says:

      https://twitter.com/LouiseMortonUK/status/366608583669977088
      Said something so egregious that even Ergasiophobe had to disagree with it #astonishingnewdepths

      You should be familiar with the other one – claims to be SLab for independence.  So probably just astonishingly thick rather than malicious.
       
      The bit where she complains about the username “Atypical Scot” and says he’s not “a typical Scot” and it sounds like he’s claiming everyone else is like him and she for one isn’t, is absolutely sidesplitting.  #basicenglishfail

    95. Chic McGregor says:

      A bit OT (but not at all with the headline).  Next month’s independence march and rally gives us all an opportunity to actively participate.  A couple of vids:
       
      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151557188453342&set=vb.465022403530752&type=2&theater

    96. Chic McGregor says:

      A new one:
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcwBUocuHzE&feature=youtu.be
       
      Any chance of a wee ad on the centre panel Rev?

    97. Morag says:

      People keep going on about “Scotland’s Shame”.  Time for a plug for the book of that name coming out on 3rd October.

      http://www.birlinn.co.uk/Scotland-s-Shame.html

    98. wullie says:

      IMHO As far as the unionist scottish media are concerned Scotland is an occupied country and they work for the occupier.
      I think channel 4 is baled out by the BBC license payers it cannot operate on its own income and has to be baled out

    99. Ananurhing says:

      “RT especially are very good on reporting on the referendum.”
      Already emailed them a link. Thought they might particularly like the invading space monsters angle.

    100. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Any chance of a wee ad on the centre panel Rev?”

      I’ll be plugging the rally from the start of September.

    101. HandandShrimp says:

      It is a trifle surprising that some of the main outlets, Sun (thought they were taking a neutral/balanced stance) and Herald have ignored the poll. Bit surprised that the Record ran with it to be honest but not at all unhappy about that obviously. The BBC goes without saying. It is being very quiet about the debate full stop at the moment (strangely so in fact, has Paton had words with BBC Scotland?).
       
      The BTers clearly are aware of the poll and I saw a couple of snippy comments on their Facebook page. Attacking Panelbase seems to be their primary response though. That said the Pollsters get that whenever a poll comes out that is unpalatable to one side or another. All the politicians claim to not be interested in polls whilst commissioning them like crazy for internal consumption. I saw Labour supporters disssing their gruntle over the recent Guardian poll too. The developing unease in the Labour ranks over Millibands failure to connect with voters is starting to show in public….not sure how that will play out. I’m bit surprised they have waited so long.   

    102. Ananurhing says:

      Might not do any harm for others to do the same.
      mail [at] russiatodaytv [dot] com

    103. Cath says:

      Out of interest, has anyone seen the “public commissioning” experiment they’re running in Croatia right now? Could be an interesting thing to keep an eye on.
       
      http://www.mediareform.org.uk/press-ethics-and-regulation/croatias-intriguing-experiment-with-public-commissioning
       
       
       

    104. Westie7 says:

      Not surprised at SLAB on twitter attacking PB
      simliar to Lab head of Aberdeen city not liking the investigation clearing AS for visiting school before Donside election so he is now complaining to someone else
       
      talk about, my ball, my jumpers for goalposts

    105. big_al says:

      @Rev
      I’ll be plugging the rally from the start of September.
       
      You going?
       
      I shall be making the 860 mile round trip to show my support 🙂

    106. Chic McGregor says:

      @Max
      “The Scottish media know full well the devastating findings of this poll. The journalist profession are deeply embarrassed by them”
       
      I hope you are right, but, outrageously plugging again, I think the following question or one worded differently but with the same message, would definitely tweak a few consciences out there:
       
      “Regardless of how you would vote right now or what you presently believe to be the financial prospects of an independent Scotland, if you were convinced by the time of the referendum that Scotland would be no worse off financially, would you then vote for independence?”

      I am convinced, from personal canvassing experience over many years, this would produce a resounding YES which the MSM could not ignore and show up the Unionist tactics for what they really are – morally bankrupt, fiscal scaremongering, designed only to thwart the legitimate and genuine aspiration for normal levels of self-government by the Scottish people.

      Time to seize the high moral ground here and expose the ‘damned lies and state tactics’.

      The state propaganda machine is gearing up to  full slobbering bray now.

      But even with the usual attempts by far from impartial TV hosts to shout down, cut off, or redirect pro-indy politicians, it will be very difficult for them to stop a determined pro-indy politician getting over short and very telling factual information like a YES result to the question above.

      At the moment, people, I think, generally realise that there is a state bias in the media, but what most do not yet appreciate is that the majority of the population are actually in favour of normal levels of self-government for Scotland. Even most pro-indy supporters still think they are in the minority. (I don’t mean most activists here, obviously, but refer to the vast majority of the electorate who are not politically active.)

      That is why a Yes result to the above question would be a real game changer, because it would then become apparent what the true, heart felt, aspiration of the people is.

      It would psychologically have the effect of moving exposed U-lies on the economy between now and the referendum from the category of simply ‘being in error’ to somewhere way beyond that of normal political pragmatism.  An area, in fact, difficult to describe with any other word than ‘evil’.  And, of course, there would then be a very motivating sense of anger commensurate with that.
       
      But, to get back to the effect on pro-journos.  I am sure, contrary to appearances, there are journalists out there who still have a conscience.  I am sure there are journalists who think to themselves “this stuff I’,m having to read out is utter shite.”.  However, they can presently console themselves with the thought “Och well, most folk don’t really want independence any way, so it doesn’t really matter.”
       
      A Yes result to the above question would make it clear to them what the true aspiration of the people is and that it is only the lies to which they are party, which is making the difference in voting intention. i.e. they would be forced to accept on a conscious level that which they probably already know but suppress into their subconsciousness, that they are colluding to thwart the genuine aspiration of the people.
       
      Some have, of course, already taken a moral stand against the unwritten state propaganda pressures and suffered the consequences, some have stuck their head briefly above the parapet and ducked back down with less than fatal damage.  That kind of courage is not a small ask.
       
      Please consider a similar question to the above for the next round.

    107. handyandy says:

      well i just popped an e-mail to my local radio station you never know they might put a snippet in there news.

    108. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “You going?”

      Planning to, yes.

    109. Morag says:

      He’s an invited speaker, Big Al.  I’m very much looking forward to hearing him.

    110. EdinScot says:

      Just texted this to the Call Kaye rado show;
       
      “Hi, Im wondering when you are going to headline the new Panel Basesurvey/poll?  Im quite perplexed that you haven’t already considering its been public knowledge for almost 48 hours now.  Surely as a public service broadaster, you have a duty to represent all our views in Scotland.  Anything less would be a derelection of your duty and leave you open  to accusatins of bias and managing the news to suit your agenda”.
       
      Wont hold my breath waiting for an about turn otherwise i’d snuff it.  Just  for the record, i also sent a link of Stus’ ‘Closing Ranks’ article yesterday about his response to the msm wall of silence on the Panel Base survey/poll  to RT.  I really think its about time that we reached outwith our shores to inform the World of whats going on in Scotland with msm bias and the referendum looming on the horizon.  This is a massive international story and it will be the Britnat medias’ worst nightmare to be exposed as state propagandists wilfully trying to subvert democracy within their own shores.  I really think news organisations around the World will be interested and i suspect their will be no shortage of countries wanting a bit of payback if the  track record of sucessive British Goverments and its apalling international relations are anything to go by.
       

    111. a supporter says:

      Morag at 10:12 says

      NNS possibly just made a mistake, and of course they never correct mistakes even if someone manages to get past the wall of censorship and point them out, 
       
      That is a bit unfair. I posted a correction to its figures and it was published without any problem. And NNS replied telling me why it chose the figures it published instead of the better figures from the two week old Poll.

    112. Marker Post says:

      Just sent following email:
      ——- ——–
      Dear Call Kaye

      I would love to hear Professor John Curtice’s views on the Panelbase poll conducted on behalf of Wings over Scotland.

      Here’s an idea, why don’t you invite him on to discuss the results of the poll? I mean, the BBC has asked his opinion on pretty much every other poll that’s been conducted on the referendum, so not sure why he hasn’t been asked to comment on this one.

      Thank you.

    113. Holebender says:

      That Louise Morton seems a bit thick…

    114. Morag says:

      Maybe it was unfair.  But in my experience the response to someone pointing out an error is to stick the fingers in the ears and hum real loud, and put the person concerned on permanent pre-moderation.  I’ve heard others report similar experiences.
       
      The fact is, the article almost mocks the Wings figues for allegedly not allowing for people who didn’t know what their chosen party’s stance on independence was, but the positions of all the parties are listed right there under the question so that respondents who didn’t know could check.  They show no sign at all of correcting that, or of removing the blatant dig at Wings in the article.

    115. Indy_Scot says:

       
      Does anyone know if STV are aware of the poll, and if so have they given it any media coverage.

    116. Morag says:

      Figures, even.  Again, simultaneous posting destroys ability to edit.

    117. HandandShrimp says:

      John Curtice loves polls and loves crunching the numbers I would imagine he has had a look at these and may already have views to share

    118. Kevin Lynch says:

      Well if the BBC Trust won’t do their job and force the BBC to be unbiased with respect to the Scottish Independence referendum then why not complain to Ofcom. The have a nice little FAQ box you can submit a question to. If enough people start asking “why isn’t the BBC Trust ensuring the BBC are unbiased with respect to the Scottish Independence referendum debate” then surely they’ll have to get involved? Surely they’ll have to at least ask the BBC Trust the question?
      And while we’re at it. Why not broaden that to other broadcasters as well.
      http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/templates/ofcom/seo/resultsPage

    119. callum says:

      Instead of moaning about the mass media ->  be the mass media

      Whilst I have enjoyed the PanelBase poll, it was never going to lend itself to any of the genres of mass media reporting it and it’s a little worrying about all the minor huff’s going on in the comments over the last few days because it shows a lot of naivety that you can attack the mass media and then expect them to tow the line when you want them to.

      We’re very fortunate that we have the internet and that the people of Scotland have freedom to access information – let’s call it the Caesar! Spring.

    120. Holebender says:

      I think this is on topic… Gil Scott-Heron. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8

    121. Morag says:

      I imagine all these emails to Call UKaye will simply be dismissed as the work of an organised pressure group who should be denied the oxygen of publicity.

      The trouble is, the think they are unbiassed.  They think the Union is the mainstream view, and that independence support is a bizarre aberration they have every right to mock, demean and ignore.  It’s pretty much impossible to make any headway against that, with an uaccountable organisation.

    122. Salt Ire says:

      Just a thought…
       
      http://careerssearch.bbc.co.uk/jobs/job/BBC-Scotland-Journalism-Trainee-Scheme/4816 

      Dammit, the dealine’s passed…

    123. gordoz says:

      Rev : Have you read this article from yesterday ?

      Maybe someone should send panelbase info off to these guys
      http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/08/20138616595537418.html
      as a follow up to their report

    124. Chic McGregor says:

      Morag
       
      Sadly, I think there are already those amongst the journalistic brotherhood who believe that Scots, like most peoples of the world, would prefer independence, that a normal level of self government may well be the true aspiration of the people, but justify their actions by assuming ‘they know best’ and Scots must therefore ‘be saved from themselves’. 
       
      Democracy deniers such as they, for there is no other appropriate description, are long lost causes. 
       
      But I am still hopeful that there are sufficiently principled people out there that can yet be persuaded to do the right thing if their conscience is tweaked enough or any misapprehension regarding support for independence is corrected, and enough of them can act to make a difference (especially if they act together).
       
      Hence my comment on my proposed question above.

    125. Jenny says:

      I agree with Callum.
      Start brainstorming for the Caesar! Spring.
      Below are some facts about how people get their news, I would suggest sites such as the Huffington post etc should be looked at – they have now had three blog posts by Blair M. I would also suggest looking at mobile tech as a way forward and reddit type sites
      http://www.people-press.org/2012/09/27/in-changing-news-landscape-even-television-is-vulnerable/

    126. Vronsky says:

      I imagine all these emails to Call UKaye will simply be dismissed as the work of an organised pressure group.

      Yes, they will, and we really ought to know better that to waste our time at it, as we have a clear precedent for failure.  MediaLens have been at this for years, orchestrating written objections to BBC and MSM “news”.  Their objections are not about differences of opinion: they complain about misrepresentation of well-documented fact  (rough folk like us call it ‘lying’).  But it hasn’t made a blind bit of difference, and quite certainly any WoS complaints to the BBC will be dumped in the same memory hole.

      Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. The right battle is elsewhere, as Sun Tzu pointed out a long time ago.
       
       

    127. Gordon Bain says:

      The “right battle” was to pick up the phone, call on a pretence, then once on the show change the topic!

    128. Vronsky says:

      “The “right battle” was to pick up the phone, call on a pretence, then once on the show change the topic!”
       
      Having a lot of luck with that, are you?

    129. Vronsky says:

      @chic
       
      Not a good question.  Paraphrased: “If you could do something that made you better off, would you do it?”
       
      Please introduce me to the people who would answer No to that. I have a bridge I can sell them.

    130. Gordon Bain says:

      @ Vronsky
       
       No I’m not mate but I’m trying. Got a better idea?

    131. jim mitchell says:

      does anybody have any idea how much it would cost to run an add in at least some of the daily’s, along the lines of, Why are the media frighten to report the findings of the latest Panelbase pol.
       
      I don’t mean a half page spread, just something that will be noticed and will whet the curiosity of the general public, including a link to where they can find the results?
      Surely even the biased media wouldn’t turn down the chance to make money and if they do, we are no worse off, I would kick in with something!

    132. Jenny says:

      Oh, and I saw this referenced over at newsnet earlier today.
      http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/moore-welfare-budget-could-be-devolved.21835798
      Moore is offering control of welfare in the event of a NO – comes straight after WoS poll results…?

    133. Patrick Roden says:

      If you read that Article carefully Jenny, you will notice he uses non-committal language at every stage.
       
      He is offering nothing, he’s just trying some damage limitation.
       
      It might be our poll, or it might be their own internal polling.

    134. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It might be our poll, or it might be their own internal polling.”

      Very unlikely to be ours. Someone told me what he was going to say a day or two before the original piece appeared in Scotland on Sunday (although they didn’t predict the SoS’s dishonest spin), which means the actual interview was almost certainly conducted before any of our results were known. And it’s hardly a revelation that the No strategy is based on creating an IMPRESSION that there will be more powers, without actually committing to any.

    135. Holebender says:

      There’s that word “could” in there. Jam could be available tomorrow, but not today. He’s offering nothing.

    136. Jenny says:

      I guess I’m more interested in the timing of this and the consequence that “offers” such as this might have on the general zeitgeist…

    137. Patrick Roden says:

      Lets take a breather everyone and stop getting our breeks in a twist!
       
      the fact that the MSM and especially the BBC have not reported this poll, is fantastic news an a real game-changer in this referendum.
       
      We saw the figures a couple of weeks ago showing only 48% of Scots were happy at the BBC’s current affairs/news, output, so just how much more damage will this do to their reputation?
       
      The BBC is always accused of bias by Labour as it can be used as a counterclaim against their clear anti SNP/ Yes bias, but this time we have them in a clear and blatant act of news blackout. The NNS story is dynamite as well and I recommend everyone have a look at it(it’s covered in NNS’s story covering our PanelBase poll)
       
      With this clear evidence we can now bring it to the attention of the people of Scotland in a way that was more problematic in the past, with the claim/counterclaim problem I mentioned before.
       
      Now Labour and BT need to produce some evidence that is as clear cut as these two stories in order to claim parity with Yes.
       
      I’m completely convinced this will bring more publicity to wings in the long term and greater embarrassment and damage to the MSM than we dared hope for.
       
      Patience comrades.

    138. Jenny says:

      Sorry – I’ll make my position a bit clearer.

      Yes, to all comments on article – agreed that is it highly unlikely to represent a concrete committment.

      @rev – good to know this was in the offing earlier as I wouldn’t like to see WoS poll and funding being used by BT yet not gaining any credit.

      “And it’s hardly a revelation that the No strategy is based on creating an IMPRESSION that there will be more powers, without actually committing to any”

      This sentiment is key here Rev imo – you are right, it’s not a revelation to you, me or anyone else lurking around this blog. That doesn’t mean that other people won’t believe this type of promise if BT decide to run with it – they will – unfortunately. That’s why I posted it – as an FYI

    139. Vronsky says:

      “No I’m not mate but I’m trying. Got a better idea?”
       
      You sum it up well.  We need better ideas.

    140. Tom says:

      I dont listen to BBC Scotland in the morning anymore, Kaye Adams show is drivel and if anyone calls in who is against the popular BBC view they are given no time and short shrift, I don’t listen to Macauly either not because he’s not funny but because it’s an advertisement show. 

    141. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “That doesn’t mean that other people won’t believe this type of promise if BT decide to run with it – they will – unfortunately.”

      Well, that’s why we asked the question in the poll. And it turns out that in fact, 67% of people DON’T believe it. It was a poll of the Scottish public, not readers of this website.

    142. Jenny says:

      Damn panelbase! 😉
      Touché etc

    143. gavin lessells says:

      Have e mailed The Herald to ask why such a significant poll has been ignored.
      Did Panel Base release the results as press release?

    144. gavin lessells says:

      The Herald can be e mailed at letters [at] theherald [dot] co [dot] uk

    145. Chic McGregor says:

      @Vronsky

      “would be no worse off financially” does not mean “would be better off” it is merely designed to eliminate the contention made by Unionists that Scotland would be worse off. 

      If you can come up with a better wording that eliminates the contention (and one which most here I think would agree is actually false) that Scotland would be worse off financially, other than “would be no worse off financially”, then please do so.

      BTW, lend me a million quid. I guarantee that in a year’s time I will pay you back an amount that would be no less than a million quid.

    146. Taranaich says:

      Interesting. Whip up a storm in the media, have them and BT clamouring for the tables. Yet no a peep. It surely can’t be that often it happens that the media are whipped up yet silent?

      The real test will be whether Private Eye cover this. On the one hand, Hislop is a self-described unionist, and the esteemed organ has been inordinately critical of Salmond in the past: on the other, this is a devastating assessment of the Scottish people’s appraisal of the media being completely ignored, which is exactly the sort of thing Private Eye leaps on like a cat on a leather sofa. So what will win out, its modus operandi of shaming the mainstream press, or its editor’s unionist leanings? What would Paul Foot do?
       
      I love Private Eye and continue to buy it despite my frequent disagreements, but I’m not holding my breath.

    147. Chic McGregor says:

      @Vronsky 2
       
      I have in the past, elsewhere and here recently, also suggested that for maximum information, a reworded question could be ‘Moreno’d’, i.e. split into five parts as per:
       
      Significantly better off
      Slightly better off
      No worse off or better off
      Slightly worse off
      Significantly worse off
       
      With the question in the air at the time regarding how this might be costed by the researcher, there is the simpler one response option.
       
      I don’t think the Yes responses in the single respone one proposed would differ significantly in that question from the sum total of Yes’s gained from the split version.
       
      But the 5 part version would yield more information on how strong the effect of financial considerations were.

    148. Albert Herring says:

      @Chic McGregor
       
      You’d need to go further than just the economy. Something like:
       
      “Imagine all the potential problems around independence have been resolved – currency, EU, defence, and so on, and it’s clear that Scotland will be no worse off financially, how will you vote?”

    149. Adrian B says:

      Albert Henning,
       
      Westminster does not want to provide clarity/resolution over currency, EU, defence etc. It is trying to create uncertainty in all these issues.
       
      Westminster will not help to provide clear impartial information despite being told to do so by the Electoral Commission earlier this year. 

    150. Braco says:

      Kevin Lynch,
      surely if you complain to Pepsi about CocaCola’s recipe, CocaCola are bound to let Pepsi get involved in having CocaCola change it’s product.
       
      Surely?
       
      Not a direct equivalence I know, but ‘regulatory authority’ is the turf always the most fiercley  defended and fought over. (Is this not exactly the ground our battle is being fought over after all?)
       
      Anyway, there would be just as much hiding behind the old ‘ contractually/commercially sensitive’ bullshit legalese as would be found in any multinational dispute, plenty to see us all in our graves, never mind past September 18th 2014 that’s for sure.

    151. Chic McGregor says:

      @AH
      That would be OK but most of those would be temporary change over issues at worse and would confuse the issue as well.  I think we are doing well to eliminate the main concern most voters, at least those with family finances as their prime concern, go.
       
      Sorry, off to the monthly SNP meeting.

    152. Gordon Bain says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      12 August, 2013 at 9:29 am
      “I’d be interested to hear folks’ logic in sending off-topic e-mails to a phone-in.”
      It’s not just a phone-in. It invites emails and texts too. And if it’s not covered today, we’ll still have made the point that the subject needs addressing. When they’re deciding tomorrow’s topic, they can’t pretend they weren’t made aware.
       
      They don’t need to “pretend they weren’t made aware”. the only people who are asking the questions are us and we already know the answers. The people who need to be informed don’t know we exist and dutifully listen to the BBC as though it’s gospel!
       
      So, do we interrupt the almost inevitable Tory love-in tomorrow or would that be ill-timed and distasteful? I only ask because I have a lot of respect for most of the minds here and I do hear what they’re saying. However this softly-softly, playing by the rules crap just isn’t working. They’re thumbing their noses at us and I bloody resent it!

    153. raineach says:

      Look on the bright side – the silence proves what many of us privately suspected: the media tell untruths. Therefore all the guff about No being a shoe in is made up, and we can carry on in our campaigns sure in the knowledge that whatever the voters really think it is certainly not what the MSM pretends they think

    154. gavin lessells says:

      Meanwhile, Curtice has his say on blog.whatscotlandthinks.org

    155. Braco says:

      Chic and AH

      It’s not just better or worse off either. It’s about how Scotland’s wealth is shared amongst it’s people.
       
      Even if our overall cake were to somehow get smaller after independence (snigger), it is being divided up so unfairly now, through the UK system, that the majority in an Indy Scotland would still benefit enormously through the simple enactment of governmental policies aimed at a more equitable sharing of our wealth!
       
      The ownership of Land in Scotland is a great lense through which to start to understand how, the more general attitudes currently tolerated as normal in our national wealth distribution system, industrial as well as national natural resources, have been set up to completely circumnavigate Scotland’s general population.

    156. Braco says:

      raineach,
      very, very true. Nice to have it confirmed, isn’t it!

    157. kininvie says:

      @Taranaich
      It would be nice to think Private Eye would be interested, but I suspect this controversy is so far outside the sphere of interest of most of its readers, that it won’t cover it. But it most certainly won’t cover it if it doesn’t know about it, and since it’s still a one man and a dog operation, which relies on being told stuff, perhaps a quick e-mail from some of us would be in order?

    158. Salt Ire says:

      Thoroughly agree with kininvie.  

      Private Eye carried most of the salacious tidbits about the Rangers saga in their Planet Football column when the Scottish media were off playing “human caterpillar” with themselves.  Their whole ethos of journalistic integrity in the face of outright hypocrisy might make this of interest to them editorially if not particularly appealing to their base readership.  E-mail and be damned I say… 

    159. Chic McGregor says:

      @Braco
      Yep! That is why it has to be couched in terms of a ‘Scotland’ basis rather than ‘Scots’. 
      OTOH, although there will no doubt be the usual policy pendulum swings in succeeding governments in an independent Scotland, I think most people from both sides of the independence fence would be very surprised if an independent Scotland did not oscillate around a point to the left of the rUK.  Probably more aligned to the socially responsible Nordic Model.

    160. Chic McGregor says:

      @Gordon Bain
       
      “So, do we interrupt the almost inevitable Tory love-in tomorrow or would that be ill-timed and distasteful?”
       
      I thought Reporting Scotland using his death to have a go at the SNP was disgraceful.  Most notably his unveling the old ‘Scotland in La-La-Land’ poster with a picture of Salmond dressed as a telly tubby.   Not the Tories finest hour at the time, and certainly not BBC Scotland’s tonight. 
       
      If they felt they simply had to make political capital they might have chosen something more appropriately serious for the sombre occasion.

    161. Braco says:

      Chic McGregor,
      Yes, lets hope so.
       
      Sounds like BBC Scotland have managed a new personal best in the ‘diving to political depths’ event.

    162. Salt Ire says:

      This has probably been floated before but BBC Scotland does has a public Facebook page which allows commentary.  
      https://www.facebook.com/BBCScotland?fref=ts
      It would be counter-productive to throw blatant anger at the the lack of transparency the BBC are showing but a few questioning comments on the democratic process etc may get the desired result.



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