Independence for England now
Posted on
March 31, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The breakdown data from last week’s vote on Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement:
ENGLAND: 266 MPs for, 256 MPs against (51%-49%)
SCOTLAND: 13 for, 45 against (22%-78%)
WALES: 6 for, 33 against (15%-85%)
NORTHERN IRELAND: 1 for, 10 against (9%-91%)
Once again, readers, the solution to Brexit is clear.
Could this explain the apparent Ruth Davidson rumour of splitting from the Conservatives to form a Scottish party?
Surely she must suspect that electoral annihilation would sweep the Tories off the board in Scotland and is thinking of taking a move to forestall that
Or there’s your other solution, Rev:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-divided-kingdom/
There is a petition going round to give England an Independence Referendum, I thought why not, and signed it.
Post this on the Express and Daily Mail websites and watch it take off!
Are they not too wee, too poor etc for real! 😀 😀
War! Why isn’t Theresa May having a war with somebody, that’s usually the go to thing to do when a British prime minister’s in trouble, takes the voters minds off what the government’s not doing
This news deserves to be published to the limits in England!
Indeed – luckily as more than 10k people have signed, the government now have to respond to the petition to let England have a referendum on leaving the UK. Check out the map of where the signatories are from.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231563
The downside of not giving England their own parliament although they think Westminster is sole parliament. I wonder who picked the date of 12th April as the next deadline date? It is the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic.
“It is the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic.”
Someone musta pulled out the backstop.
Okay – I’ll get ma jaikit.
The idea of Boris or Gove for PM makes me feel sick, Boris who has been sacked twice for lying and Gove who would stab anyone and everyone in the back for power.
We are going the same way as America, who produced Trump with far right help and now we have Boris and Gove. The far right only care about protecting their wealth and power. The new financial regulations due soon from the EU have them prepared to throw the rest of the country to the wolves. Don’t be poor or ill in their world. The things we regard as precious, free education and the NHS are just money making rackets for them.
They have wound up the right wing and used them for their own ends – Ruthie did the same thing here in Scotland – they will use anyone to further their own ends.
The solution Independence for England now.
Dr Jim says:
31 March, 2019 at 12:11 pm
War! Why isn’t Theresa May having a war with somebody, that’s usually the go to thing to do when a British prime minister’s in trouble, takes the voters minds off what the government’s not doing
————————-
Indeed. Lets think
Iran: too tough a nut to crack
Hasemite Kingdom of Jordan: A stableish country with strong bonds in the area, will not be easy. Excuse: Not relevant enough not many know of it etc
Yemen: increasing the profile would bring the secret war into the open, no that won’t do
Gibraltar: This one is interesting, a fake war over Gibraltar with lots of sabre rattling. Spain, being an EU member would reinforce the bad EU. Deploy the rapid reaction division and airborne brigade on excercise and claim by way of the daily fail that our boy are protecting the Rock etc. Would it gain support?
Panda paws @12:14pm
Split my sides laughing when I looked at the map of votes by constituency
Chagos islands they could win that one, send in Colonel Ruth on a buffalo and Tomkins to talk them to death
522 English politicians versus 108 from Scotland, Wales and NIreland combined. The UK a democratic country? My ass. The big con. Another one. And yes, ”it’s only going to get worse”. If the English won’t leave it’s time for Scotland to bail out.
…………………….
WGD:- ‘The fork in the road.’
… It’s only going to get worse. Whoever takes over as Conservative leader from Theresa May will only do so by appealing to a Conservative party membership that has been heavily infiltrated by former Ukip members. That’s who will lead the next stage of negotiations with the EU, and they’ll pursue the neo-conservative wet dream of a privatised state.
There is a very real prospect of Prime Minister Boris Johnson. And who is his sole supporter amongst Scottish Tory MPs? Who is the sole Scottish Conservative that he can trust? Who is the most likely candidate for Scottish Secretary of State in a Boris Johnson government? That would be Ross Thomson. And you thought things were bad now.”
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/03/30/the-fork-in-the-road/
Stu, you should post the above breakdown (with WoS link) to one of the online BBC political articles with a HYS section.
Light touch paper and retire…
My goodness rumours abound today, Ruth Davidson and a couple of other Tories in Scotland to join the Tiggers
I can’t believe it, anybody seeing this?
Vote Yes to independence for England ’19, NOW
England could really be a free country yey!
Take back control of yersel England
Pretty much. 🙂
A fascinating revelation – Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement is acceptable to English MPs. IMO it would be acceptable to English voters too. An EURef2 would deliver a leave in England. But again, Scotland and NI wouldn’t have it.
Tomorrow WM returns for another look at options to break the deadlock.
Would the Tories take the risk of May’s ‘deal’ with an EURef2 tacked on? It might get through WM.
The WA is unamendable. The Political Declaration can be changed. If Customs Union were added to it, a lot of Labour would back it, I suspect.
So, they might cobble something together and avoid having to face the fundamental truth for a while yet – that England wants to leave the EU, but that probably means destroying the UK.
Didn’t Murdo’s doomed leadership have a separate Scottish Tory Party at its core?
They went for Ruth ‘Dog whistle’ Davidson instead and the rest is history, and hopefully, they will be too.
leadership bid*
Hi Marcia at 12:26 pm.
You typed,
“I wonder who picked the date of 12th April as the next deadline date? It is the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic.”
Not quite. The Titanic sank at around 2.20am on the 15th April. From:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic
After leaving Southampton on 10 April 1912, Titanic called at Cherbourg in France and Queenstown (now Cobh) in Ireland before heading west to New York.[7] On 14 April, four days into the crossing and about 375 miles (600 km) south of Newfoundland, she hit an iceberg at 11:40 p.m. ship’s time…
At 2:20 a.m., she broke apart and foundered with well over one thousand people still aboard.
I appeared on the planet 40 years and 6 hours after she went down.
Petition duly signed. Scottish votes for English petitions, I say. Oh by the way stop referring to Johnson as “Boris “.
“Helena Brown says:
“There is a petition going round to give England an Independence Referendum, I thought why not, and signed it”.
For chrissakes pass it oan wull ye?
I think it has been as plain as the nose on Feartie’s face that this has been the feelings of people themselves throughout this toxic corrupt broken union.
Nice to see that the people of Scotland are doing “their bit” to ensure the people of England at least get a chance of having their own government. Of course Feartie will ensure that this petition, like the petition for another E.U. referendum (I refuse to use the People’s vote shite)will fail.
Apparently there is an upside to all of this though … that warmonger Bolton has said that the U.S. stands ready to do a deal with th (dis)United Kingdom as soon as it leaves the E.U. We all know what this means folks …
Chlorinated chicken … CHECK
Hormone injected beef … CHECK
N.H.S. run by American companies … CHECK
Private Health insurance required for all … CHECK
Scotch Whisky made in U.S.A. … CHECK
sauces etc containing bugs etc imported to U.K. … CHECK
Hi Donald anderson.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/independence-for-england-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2447502
Unfortunately England needs Wales for free water, cheap housing for colonists from Birmingham and Manchester, Scotland for vast wealth of resources and land. England needs Scotland, Wales and NI to fill the regiments to carry out its colonial wars.
Scotland, Wales and NI needs England for FA.
Dr. Jim @ 12.11 pm
War! Why isn’t Theresa May having a war with somebody, that’s usually the go to thing to do when a British prime minister’s in trouble, takes the voters minds off what the government’s not doing.
________
Lino already has one on her hands inside the Tory Party. Civil (but not very polite) war.
Alba Laddie @ 1.17 pm
Hey, are you the brother of one of my creations, Alba Lassie? 😉
Dr Jim says:
31 March, 2019 at 12:11 pm
“”War! Why isn’t Theresa May having a war with somebody,…””
…..
Chances of UK starting a war with anyone pretty remote when all likely candidates are laughing their heads off at the UK while gorging on popcorn.
Although Major military exercise going on just now in the north of Scotland…
Welsh Sion
She is at war…with the poor, Europe, anyone who likes Europe, immigrants, etc, etc You can achieve the same impact in uniting the nuts by creating any enemy of “England”.
@BDTT and others: the petition needs votes from English constituencies if it is to have any impact on Westminster Gov’t.
Has anyone got connections with the Brexiters in England? I know several Wingers have talked about their misguided English relatives – please get in touch with them and encourage them to express their feeings about “subsidised” Scotland!!
OT Gove’s father ran a fish processing business. He developed a process for making environmentally friendly condoms from fish skins.
The project was abandoned after trials resulted in the birth of wee Michael. It seems they hadn’t removed the gills…..with disastrous results to the functionality of the condoms.
Unfortunately some fish DNA (believed to be Cod) found its way into the embryonic Gove, resulting in the odd appearance of the would be PM.
If you need proof of this story just Google “Gove drinking water”. It’s there for all to see.
England already is independent. It always gets what it wants, is the largest country, has the largest population, has the most MPs. Yet despite all this, many English still delude themselves into believing they are the victims in this Union because the other nations are “over-represented” in Parliament, that they “subsidise” us and “we don’t have a devolved assembly of our own, wah!”
The UK is a mini-English empire. Time to break it up.
I’ve watched the wee tourist board filmy welcomey video several times now to see if I can find something odd about this young lads accent (y’know the one all the Britnats are complaining about) and for the life of me, and I tried, I can’t find a single thing to moan about, it’s a smashing wee film and the young lad’s accent is as Scottish as anybody else’s, and clear as a bell
What the hell’s wrong wae these folk, or is it maybe their own accents or personalities they’re ashamed of, or do they just hate their own country that much
Cringey cringe cringe
Brian Doonthetoon I arrived on the planet 43 years and a couple of hours after the Titantic went doon!
But.. precious union stuff.
Sarah @ 1.52 pm
Am here in Bedfordshire doing missionary work and have signed the petition as someone able to vote in leafy Middle England. I can see from the map that a great majority of signees of the petition are coming from your country and the Plaid Cymru areas of my country.
That’s like asking pooh to leave the honey pot.
Has anyone asked the EU why Scotland would have been out
Of Europe if we had voted for Independance and England would
Have remained in?
Constitutionally England is not supposed to be the UK, United with
No other country only a colonised Pricipality and a stolen Provence?
If England leaves the EU why wouldn’t Scotland stay in under the above premis?
I doubt England would want independence, they’re already in the driving seat of the UK. Independence wouod see them lose assets.
@Welsh Sion: I hoped you would be looking in and spotting the response from Wales! Now get out into Bedfordshire and spread the word – “Freedom for England”! [speaking as a 50 year resident in England with all my relatives there so no hard feelings.]
OR…. we could just partition England. Then it’s 4 against 1.
McBoxheid @ on the last Thread…
There’s an answer ( of sorts ) on the previous thread…
Could some kind Winger please put up a link to ——
Veterans For Independence..
Thanks in advance 🙂
Mmm, I wonder what Professor Gerry Hassan might conclude? Nah, only kidding, that tube is cognitively bound by ideology and couldn’t think his way out of a wet paper bag.
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mdraca/polarized-citizens-measuring_2018_04_02.pdf
Effects of the Interaction Between Ideological Affinity and Psychological Reaction of Agents on the Opinion Dynamics in a Relative Agreement Model
http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/20/3/3.html
Daniel Bell and The End of Ideology
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/daniel-bell-and-the-end-of-ideology
Ideological Segregation among Online Collaborators: Evidence from Wikipedians
https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/17-028_e9b894d7-dff9-4de5-ac43-b301e5659946.pdf
Liz g @ 3.18 pm
These?
https://blog.independencelive.net/event/70
https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/VeteransForIndependence
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransForScottishIndependence2.0
What is England? Every time you turn on a guest tv, all you see are pictures of ukUnion flags everywhere (whenever they’re in England) SO what’s the problem with their national flag… (ye ken the red n white one) are they embarrassed to show it or know it, do they not believe in themselves as a single country???
Mibbies then when Scotland WINS her independence, England could adapt and adopt the butcher’s apron as their new national flag, it appears that that’s the only flag they recognise anyways!
Tell ye what England, we’ll race ye… first to get independence wins their freedom first
Welsh Soon @ 3.40
I think so!!!
It was for McBoxheid on the previous thread who is asking for advice on his service pension rights.
I thought the Veterans might be able to help!
Cactus
Over five centuries of colonial culture has still to be addressed adequately, as the polorisation of contemporary English society suggests. There is an element of English culture that is every bit as progressive and Enlightened as the best of them. Unfortunately, there is also an element in which a strong sense of entitled supremacy is still evident. English nationalism has a very narrow and tricky path to follow.
The ‘politicisation’ of Englishness – towards a framework for political analysis
https://qmro.qmul.ac.uk/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/13758/Kenny%20The%20%E2%80%98Politicisation%E2%80%99%20of%20Englishness%3A%20Towards%20a%20Framework%20for%20Political%20Analysis%202016%20Accepted.pdf?sequence=1
Cactus @ 3.42 pm.
Did you not see this story? 😉 (About 30 miles down the road from me.)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/eurostar-suspended-today-man-arrested-brexit-england-flag-a8846666.html
Very well put Cameron
Aye, mibbies they’ll get there one day, it is indeed a tricky path
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPcyTyilmYY
Cactus
As I was saying.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/nana.12164
@ naina tal at 1.54
Gove is adopted. There must be some other explanation for his water-drinking techniques 🙂
Totally O/T but interesting, imo, and another example of a Scottish achievement, one of many, that stuck in their English craw.
…….
From the National letter page on the 28th March.
”I (Jim Lynch, Edinburgh) was very interested to read the piece ‘Museum marks the centenary of an epic journey’ (March 26). It told the story of R34, an airship built at the William Beardmore factory in Inchinnan, near Glasgow in 1919.
This airship flew from East Fortune in East Lothian to New York, and was the first transatlantic crossing by air. The tale was told in a book, ‘Flight of the Titan’, written by George Rosie and published by Birlinn in 2010. I spoke to George on Tuesday to inform him of the article and he had not remembered that it was the 100th anniversary. The builders called it ‘Pride of the Clyde’, but the workers and the crew called it ‘Tiny’ – it was 634 feet long; the length of two football fields.
The flight to New York took 108 hours and 12 minutes; all the drinking water and most of the food was gone, and there was only 140 gallons of fuel left in the tank – sufficient for roughly an hour’s flying, a very close-run thing. New York went mad.
The return trip took 75 hours and 3 minutes indicating the influence the weather pattern had on the outward flight. When they neared the British isles they were directed to go to Pulham in Norfolk (England); the crew was expecting to return to East Fortune where their wives and families were waiting. The Captain queried why this was happening, but was directed by the Air Ministry to divert to Norfolk. The anti-airship force in the Air Ministry, led by Winston Churchill, did not want big publicity going to East Fortune (Scotland), which was only 20 miles from Edinburgh. And this was in the days before the SNP was even invented.”
‘R 34 Airship (1919).’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvp8XqNmHps
Hey Sion, cheers for the link, yeah ah think this is just the beginning of it too. Once independence ’19 is in vogue, hopefully the people of Wales will get the chance to WIN their freedom 2
Everybuddy wants to be FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc
@Professor Gerry Hassan
Stick this in your pipe and smoke it, thicko.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254091347_Multicultural_Citizenship_within_multination_states
On holiday and steaming.
Was I meant to have signed that? Hic
signed
Sarah says:
31 March, 2019 at 1:52 pm
“@BDTT and others: the petition needs votes from English constituencies if it is to have any impact on Westminster Gov’t.
Has anyone got connections with the Brexiters in England? I know several Wingers have talked about their misguided English relatives – please get in touch with them and encourage them to express their feeings about “subsidised” Scotland!!”
That’s the only way there’s any point to signing it Sarah. I mean I’ve signed it, why not, but not in the expectation that anything will come of it because as you’d expect according to the map about 99% of the signatures are from Scotland. Someone posts the link on a pro indy site so loads of Yessers pile in and sign and there you go, which of course makes it easily dismissable, no matter how many sigs it gets.
The only way it could ever have any real impact would be as you say if lots of pro-brexit English did so. Now if that happened the WM regime would have to order in truckloads of brown pants and knickers.
I’d suggest to people on here that they go on some mainstream blogs/sites with high English traffic, be prepared to register if necessary, and just quietly post the link to the petition, maybe with a just one little comment about getting the subsidised Scottish monkey off their backs.
(Independent) England really need to sort themselves and their politicians out, whatever happens on the 12th of April 2019 will be a new defining moment in history (subject to Tory change or begging delay)
Out with the old
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6
In with the new
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/new-brexit-19
HOLD fast and steady iScotland, wur winnin’
I don’t normally go to the corporate media for facts and stuff, but….
The Lions Who Wrote History
The campaign to decolonise culture in Britain
Activists argue that museums and universities should amplify the voices of the oppressed
https://www.economist.com/prospero/2018/06/01/the-campaign-to-decolonise-culture-in-britain
Decolonising the Cultural Institution?
A Critical Intervention into Discourses of Decolonisation in the Cultural Sphere
https://www.soas.ac.uk/cclps/events/file121725.pdf
Decolonising the Academy: Responsibility, Representation & Progress
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/historycultures/departments/dasa/news/2017/decolonising-the-academy.aspx
Workshop: Decolonising the Curriculum: Creative and practical strategies
https://forarthistory.org.uk/our-work/conference/2019-annual-conference/workshop-decolonising-the-curriculum-creative-and-practical-strategies/
Awe ra best to ye Big Del, enjoy yerself wherever you may be, tell everybuddy that iScotland is coming!
*** England’s Independence Referendum 20XX ***
“Do you agree that England should be an independent country?”
Yes or No
Everyone on here does realise – if England was offered an Independence vote, a lot of the English would wonder why – they already think they are independent and can do what they please.
Idea – The Wee Grey Book.
For the next indyref why not have a pensioner book with larger print, shorter, simpler messages and focussed on things pensioners will find interesting and appealing? Like bringing back the Scottish regiments? (Snp policy). Even, ahem, keeping the queen? (Short term, lol) Guarantees on an INCREASED pension? My 80 year old mum thinks it would help. Only an idea though. Could leave them in care homes etc.
@Referendum 1707: That’s the way to do it. Perhaps a football site?
Neil Oliver in today’s Sunday Times falsely claims that the 2014 referendum victory remained silent.
Obviously history not his strong if he has forgotten the outbreak of hard Unionist thuggery in George Square on 19th September.
Victors not victory blood spell check
“Terry says:
31 March, 2019 at 5:34 pm
Idea – The Wee Grey Book.
For the next indyref why not have a pensioner book with larger print, shorter, simpler messages and focussed on things pensioners will find interesting and appealing?”
As an almost 64 year old, that’s not patronising at all…
The British Establishment do not live in the same century as the rest of us poor saps.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780333981764_2
THE PARADOX OF SOVEREIGNTY: AUTHORITY, CONSTITUTION,
AND POLITICAL BOUNDARIES
https://etd.library.vanderbilt.edu/available/etd-07282010-164656/unrestricted/Whitt2.pdf
Sovereignty and Europe – The British Perspective
https://www.cairn.info/revue-l-europe-en-formation-2013-2-page-79.htm#
POLITICS IS TOO IMPORTANT TO BE LEFT TO POLITICIANS
THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE PEOPLE
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Democracy-Max-Sovereignty-of-the-people.pdf
I see Mr Peffers has signed this one.
Maybe we can also help them?
https://www.change.org/p/english-independence-referendum
I have also just signed the petition for England to have an indyref.
I think England by itself would have to consider itself differently. No more ‘Great’ Britain. Just little England facing a united continent surrounded by Celtic countries and rich Scandinavians looking to buy their buildings and companies and offshoring the income from them.
Also once we get our oil fund going we can join in and the world can own England and tell it what to do. What larks eh?
After all foreign investment is good isn’t it?
I used to be offended by Stu’s use of expressions like “Fuck Off” or if in reply to a really , really stupid Tweet “Fuck Off and then Fuck Off again “.
I used to be offended but now realise these replies are to safeguard his mental health .
Today on Twitter I was tempted again and again. Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggghhhhhh.
Thank you.That is all I have to say about that.
Tories splitting North and South of the wall. Aye right!
The same money sources will bind them to the same policies playing daft Scots like a fiddle.
They need the union and a pretend separation is just smoke and mirror stuff to polish up the kilted turds from the Brexit turds.
But a sign that things are moving along nicely. 🙂
Dr Jim says:
31 March, 2019 at 12:11 pm
Dinnae worry Jim, there about to be a royal brat born. There will be wall to wall “bringing the nation together” crap to keep the people occupied while the government crashes and burns!!!
Don’t just “comment about getting the subsidised Scottish monkey off their backs.” @Referendum1707 says at 4:27 pm
Add that Sturgeon and SNP are soft on foreigners, refugees and Muslims/Islam and watch the signatures rise massively.
They believe the MSM about Scotland remember.
Us it to our advantage.
Someone ping it to Mark Francois the ERG buffoon.
😉
O/T
Professor John Robertson:- ‘BBC Scotland’s go-to-guy on SNP anti-drugs strategy both wrong and corrupt.’
”Former Glasgow University professor Neil McKeganey has long been BBC Scotland’s favourite go-to-guy when they wanted somebody to try to undermine the Scottish Government’s anti-drugs strategy. One rogue academic against the evidence of many experts; that’ll be ‘balance’, I guess.
Now we hear, in the Herald today, that his research unit has been funded by those champions of addiction, the tobacco companies. What might their motivation for funding him be? Might they be worried that the decriminalisation of cannabis will affect their profits?”….
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/03/31/bbc-scotlands-go-to-guy-on-snp-anti-drugs-strategy-both-wrong-and-corrupt/
‘Scottish’ Tories splitting …
Until 1966 they were separate, but tended to vote with the English Conservatives much as Ulster Unionists did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionist_Party_(Scotland)
I have heard it said that right wing Unionism in Scotland was damaged by the merging of parties from Scotland and England. It is certainly true they were dominant in the 1950s but almost absent by the 80s. If they had stayed separate would it have made any difference to Thatcher’s rampage? I hae ma doots!
Would it make any difference now to the manic far right shite show we see in WM now? Not at all, IMO, because from I can see the ‘Scottish’ Tories are as English Nationalistic as the rest!
Further to my recent comment re Mark Francois I have been racking my brains as to who he reminds me of.
Suddenly it came to me – he is Harry Enfield’s Tory boy but about 20 years older than when Harry did him.
The resemblance is amazing.
Petra
Prohibition has never worked properly as a means of reducing drug related crime and drug-related damage to public health. From the perspective of public health ethics, public policy needs to be shaped around an ethos of harm-reduction. Portugal has legalised all drugs and enjoyed a significant reduction in drug related crime and ill-health.
England ceased to be truly ‘independent’ in 1066 when it was occupied by forces of the dukedom of Normandy. Of course, in English history being subdued is always a positive. But then those Frenchified Norsemen with their Domesday Book inventory of the spoils would think that, wouldn’t they?
Perversely, in the light of Brexit, many appear to rejoice in being ruled by foreigners whether it be Danes, Normans etc. The conquerors generally get to write the history books. Is English history just a tissue of deception?
@gus1940
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul1vCdzNIoI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfK7VRcTy3w
Appearance, tick
Bullshit, tick
Accent, not so much 🙂
No mention of Farage in this article and yet he could prove to be a main player in decimating the Tory Party.
‘Brexit: Senior Tories warn May against snap election to solve impasse amid fears party could be wiped out.’
”Conservative MPs are reportedly preparing to block any attempt by Theresa May to call a general election in a bid to resolve the Brexit crisis. The prime minister and some of her closest advisers are believed to be considering a snap poll if her withdrawal agreement is put forward and voted down for a fourth time this week. Yet senior Conservatives have said that an election would be a disaster, fearing their bitterly divided party would be wiped out at the ballot box.”..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-election-theresa-may-conservatives-block-latest-a8847631.html
…………………………..
Farage:- ”Brexit voters are feeling betrayed, disgusted and angry. If you feel the same way, join @brexitparty_uk as a registered supporter now.”
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1112349408346161153?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Bob Mack
I think (t)Ruthless is planning to form a totally, unashamed Unionist party. That will be her only policy. She’ll hope to pick up all those people who want to vote no to and Indy Scotland – Labour Lib dem and Tory.
Scottish Labour is the third party just now, Lib dems are scarcely on the register and if you add together the current voting pattern for these three parties, it outnumbers the SNP vote.
I think if there is a GE soon, it will be too soon to change things but if we have to wait a few years yet for a Scottish GE then there will be basically two parties – yes or no and it will be Nicola v (T)Ruthless and that is how she sees that she can win Holyrood and FM.
The Tory name is too toxic now and she’s already run one election on the ‘vote for (T)Ruthless’ slogan. Hope i’m wrong.
I have signed the petition. Lots of Scots signing it will irritate them and expose their empire mindset.
Just another grain of sand to rub at their tortured souls. Lol.
@ Sinky 5.48
Just another British liar. Why would I or anyone believe what they say?
Crazycat at 4.05
Yes I knew that. Just passing on fake news. Then again maybe his biological father was a fish processor too. LOL
WM offers Scotland the status quo, Hobson’s choice. Become a third (world) country, rule taker and a vassal state within the disunited kingdom led by a cartel of carpetbaggers.
Fortunately for Scotland there is a way out of the morass. Leave behind the malfunctioning, undemocratic British state and become a rule maker, a small outward facing inclusive nation state embracing a future negotiated on its own terms in a globalised world.
‘As a consequence, in the event that the Withdrawal Agreement is not approved by the House of Commons by 29 March 2019, all Union primary and secondary law will cease to apply to the United Kingdom from 13 April 2019, 00:00h (CET) (‘the withdrawal date’). The United Kingdom will then become a third country. These notices, which aim at preparing citizens and stakeholders for the withdrawal of the United Kingdom, set out the consequences in a range of policy areas’
https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit-preparedness/brexit-notices-explanation_en
‘The Brexit political turmoil has been driven by a mixture of issues – a divided UK population, a divided Conservative party, a Labour opposition that is divided and not reflecting the majority of its voters ‘Remain’ preferences, and a UK government that is a minority government dependent on DUP votes, and facing the need to respect the Good Friday Agreement. Vote Leave was also found to have broken electoral law during the campaign…
But the extraordinary political turmoil in the UK, and the drivers of that turmoil, are highly unusual for a western democracy, so the perfect storm that is UK Brexit politics is rather unlikely to find a direct equivalent in the future Scottish politics of independence…
Overall, democracy thrives on diversity of view and so division and difference of view are welcome in many ways. But systemic change of the order of Brexit or independence also needs a clear majority, buy-in to, and respect for, the actual democratic process (no cheating, fake news, etc) as well as respect for facts and evidence, and clarity of aims (preferably realistic aims)…
The difference to the current situation would be that the UK would be a ruletaker on EU trade policy and deals where Scotland would be a rule-maker with the other EU member states – meaning Scotland would have more power than the UK over trade policy – quite a reversal compared to the status quo…
So the huge uncertainty that haunts the UK over its future relationship with the EU would not hang over accession talks for Scotland. And, importantly for our comparison here, there would be less uncertainty too about the future UK-Scotland relationship’
https://www.scer.scot/wp-content/uploads/SCER-Policy-Paper-7.pdf
Meg merrilees says:
You could be right. The ‘Scottish’ Tories have firm evidence now that distancing themselves from London HQ pays dividends. Their plan could be to appear and sound different, stand under another name, but vote at WM along London lines on every occasion.
The only flaw in the plan would be that their rebranded ‘independent’ MPs might be excluded from high office in the London cabinet. However, if the present selection are anything to go by, that seems irrelevant.
The prize they probably really really want is a BritNat coalition after Holyrood2021 which kills Indy for a long time. Standing for Holyrood as a ‘shiny’ ‘new’ ‘soft-right’ ‘Scottish’ ‘party’, fully supported by the compliant msm, might just persuade enough gullible voters to deliver that.
“The only flaw in the plan would be that their rebranded ‘independent’ MPs might be excluded from high office in the London cabinet.”
I thought high office was reserved for English born MPs, I didn’t realise so many Scottish Conservatives were sufficiently principled to put nation over career. 🙂
Peston thinks CU tacked on to May’s ‘deal’ could sneak through WM this week.
He could be right.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-31/theresa-may-will-be-saved-or-sunk-by-mps-customs-union-vote/
Remember, the WA is fixed but the EU say they are will to tweet the accompanying Political Declaration. The PD could presumably have CU added to it as the proposed route.
@Scottish Conservatives
Are you principled, law-abiding, individual committed to liberal democracy, or are you something else?
The global politics of human rights: From human rights to human dignity?
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0192512118757129
@Scottish Conservatives
Please step in to the 21st century, your colonialism is unappealing.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9337.1994.tb00162.x
@BLiS___d
Your Richard Leopard shows just how committed to Scottish democracy you fannies are.
Human rights, international human rights, and sovereign political authority: a draft model for understanding contemporary human rights
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3402/egp.v7.25522
@ naina tal at 7.16
Your alternative suggestion is one I hadn’t thought of – definitely plausible!
Seeing as how petitions are all the rage and given the Brexit vote was dodgy as hell. 🙂
Halt Brexit For A Public Inquiry
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241848
Article in the Telegraph … “Conservatives must back no-deal because ‘sorry, we botched Brexit’ won’t win a general election” (behind paywall)
THAT headline! Are they being serious? They are suggesting the Tories opt for ‘no deal’ in order to win a general election? They should put party electoral fortunes above the wellbeing of the UK?
To any fair minded person, ‘no deal’ is an existential threat, not a campaigning tactic!
The Telegraph has always been right wing so you had to bear that in mind. However I used to have some respect for the serious nature of their journalism. Now they are just another far right loony comic.
@Gus 1940,
Mark François is a dead ringer for an old TV character from many years ago. It was a greedy schoolboy called “Billy Bunter”.
Amazing resemblance.
I only recently realised Francois was a real MP. For the life of me he seems more like a creation of Viz.
@Handandshrimp
Amazingly he shares the same character attributes of Gerald Campions character in Bunter. Incredible throwback.
Also in the Herald is more Rev Stu bait from Pamela Nash. Headed 60% thinks Scotland will be independent. Just the intro SIU asked for: trashing the pound, loss of pension, loss of mortgage security, loss of salary, and on and on.
This is what we have to look forward to. Get those Independence crib sheets out and handy for all occasions.
Character from viz…… Rolf
galamcennalath says @ 8.20 pm:
_______
Recall that Johnson regularly writes for the Torygraph and only last week (and within that period) changed from dubbing May’s deal as akin to wearing a suicide vest and handing Junker the detonator and that she should channel the Moses vibe (‘Let my people go!’) to supporting May’s deal.
We really need to get that campaign for English independence going. It’s the only nation of the UK tearing itself apart by fighting both its Jekyll and its Mr Hyde.
Petra says:
31 March, 2019 at 6:55 pm
No mention of Farage in this article and yet he could prove to be a main player in decimating the Tory Party.
Then again, the new Farage Vanity Party could well split the Brexit vote with UKIP, allowing the blue tories to hold on (just). Crippled by ego? Hilarious. 🙂
Johnathon Brocklebank of the Mail in his bitter wee rant about all things Scottish really doesn’t like the idea of Scotland having any friends and if we did they shouldn’t be French and Alyn Smith should stop gooyely speaking it and should speak English like he’s told to, Alyn Smith and all the rest of us Scots should have English friends and not overseas foreign devils who have nothing in common with us *British* Scots (You are British dammit)
So we’re very sorry everybody else in the world an English *journalist* says we can’t and shouldn’t talk to you folks anymore because our real friends in England will punish us if we do
Was that OK Mr Brocklebank of the Mail did I say it right, please don’t hurt us, we’ll never speak foreign languages again, except English
I very often wish these people would come round my house at night instead of hiding behind a newspaper, I’ll help them hide permanently
Enjoy!
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2019/03/31/brexit-have-we-left-yet-are-we-there-yet/
.
Wow, Stu.
This is a brilliant thread. You are a hero.
Yesterday at 2.07pm the IndyRef for England petition was sitting at 9,288 and within a few hours of first appearing on the WoS website something amazing has happened.
That petition was registered on 12 November 2018 and has grown at a very slow 2,000 signatures added each MONTH.
Within 24 hours of going on Wings Over Scotland that EnglandIndyRef petition has jumped by 4,000 in ONE DAY.
Good grief. The power of WoSer 🙂
Stu., your heartfelt “Long Way Home” post with being scared for Scotland was absolutely understandable. 3 days in court plus weeks of disruption pre-lit is hardly a holiday in Hawaii!
But you have bounced back with style my friend.
You even managed to turn some of the sea of mustard (not yet signed the petition) in England to red…
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=231563
So may I ask a quick question of your good self please as you will know a lot more….
Stu., in my daytime job we started “boosting” tens of thousands of posts on Facebook and got incredible results.
Would I be allowed to bang £100 into Facebook to promote this petition targetting a couple of England constituencies to test out if this type of promotion works and whether it might be an idea to then target all constituencies in England to help get ot over the 100,000 mark in the next 6 weeks?
You know more about the rules on politcs and piad promotion than I. Just asking you as I rewlly think that if we can help this petition go viral, especially in England then…
Scotland may achieve the gold standard: Independence + inherit membership of the EU + Protect tens of thousands of Scottish Jobs + Safeguard the Scottish Economy.
A bad few days could well end up a great few months.
———————–
P.S. If you haven’t yet considered signing the EnglandIndyRef Please check it out….
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231563
Until very recently, Scotland has been almost invisible to the world. This is largely due to the ambiguous nature of the legal identity of Scotland’s residents within Britain, inhabitants of a stateless nation governed over by English legal doctrine and English constitutional law. This is not the description of a multinational polity capable of pluralistic, multinational, democracy. The inadequate nature of eh British constitution, fundamentally undermines the protection of Scotland’s residents from the abuses of authoritarian government (see Brexit).
https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/11/09/2018/human-rights-state-sovereignty-and-international-law-interview-richard-falk
CameronB, Brodie, you must be a full time blawhard. Do you sleep? The Palestinians are the proxy war for Iran and Islamic fascists.
O/T
Breaking News 3 stabbed Glasgow Old Firm riot apparently.
J Kelly, p Harvie et al have blood on their hands now.
🙁
The interesting thing about England leaving the union and there by leaving the union is the MSM silence on the matter
Given I have never heard it on the bbc suggests it may be true
Surely this only goes to prove that England does not always get its own way and therefore strengthens the Union? If we end up with a soft Brexit it will be as a result of the votes of MPs from Scotland and Wales making the difference (and maybe NI too if the DUP vote for Boles’ Common Market 2.0 tomorrow and it passes)
Mad Unionist
I’m many things but primarily a democrat. Care to explain why you don’t support the principle of universal human rights?
HYFUD (Simon) there will be NO Soft Brexit.
The Constituency Conservatives have spoken.
Vote for Hard Brexit aka No Deal or face deselection.
England expects every man and woman MP to do their duty!
God Save The Queen and Her Fascist Regime.
@Al Suart: the Rev might see your query quicker if you write via the Contact tab on the menu bar at the top of the screen.
Mad Unionist
Are you part of the 20% who would never vote for independence? You know, knuckle-draggers, Tories, Communists and Scotland in Union types.
CameronB Brodie. I have never said I do not support anything. You just make it up. You are a blawhard. The right to life is I suppose a human right and no one has the right kill to impose their view. The IRA etc!
At the end of 2018
Ex UKIP leader thought England going might be the best way!
http://archive.is/5rOoY
CameronB Brodie. I assume you exclude yourself from being a daft knuckle dragger. You are a sensible knuckle dagger.
Mad Unionist
Sorry, I was just picking up on the tone of your previous comments. So do you think it right that Scotland has no say in its’ future?
Och “Mad Unionist” it’s been obvious from minute 1 that you are here to disrupt.
Yi might as weel gie up – your sussed!
Mad Unionist
That’s a generalised though reasonably accurate description of those who would never vote for Scotland to run it’s own affairs. I assumed your online identity placed you in this demographic. Btw, do you really think that those who seek to educate are blowhards?
Sorry – “you’re sussed!”
Brian Doonthetoon
Careful now, you dont want to encourage the grammar snobs. 😉
Mike Cassidy Ex UKIP leader and hard Brexit supporter Diane James proposed Leave voting England and Wales left the UK while Remain voting Scotland and NI stayed in
Brodie!
Where’s the bloody apostrophe? It’s…
Don’t
Honestly! Some people…
CameronB Brodie is now on a roll. I will stay up all night and observe his wisdom. I never said Scotland has no say in its future and have never heard anyone say this. Changing the subject is what CB B is particularly good at. Forgive me for the abbreviation as you are like me not all that important.
Jockanese Wind Talker You cannot deselect an MP already in Parliament, he just becomes an independent. You can deselect someone as a candidate at the next general election but the key votes on Brexit are next week
Mad Unionist
Are you trying to deny you support the union now?
I am probably reaching ‘peak flow’ though, so watch this space. 🙂
The Rev’s revelation that English MP’s actually voted for May’s ‘deal’ is highly significant. Those dastardly non Anglo Saxon parts of the UK are letting England down in her hour of need, perhaps? Genuinely newsworthy.
A big deal, you might have thought. Yet ‘news’ outlets don’t seem to have picked up in it.
Looks like it doesn’t fit with the agreed narrative!
robertknight
I can be a bit of a tease some of the time. Well, most of the time. 😉
5 Steps for Managing Your Emotional Triggers
Your guide to gaining emotional freedom
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/wander-woman/201507/5-steps-managing-your-emotional-triggers
Honestly best laugh I’ve had for a while , voted by constiuancy, tells the story.
Can’t wait to see that debate in parliament…..8 million by tonight , all Celtic nations signing…fantastic
CB, B. Which Union?
Next episode of the Brexit show tomorrow. I just luv watching the Brits hanging out their mucky washing. In truth they’re only really happy when they’re having wet dreams about their courageous violent conquest of the Chagos Islanders and other peaceful sorts. What it must be to be British – admired the world over. Lol.
I must check how many have signed that petition.
Next All Under One Banner (AUOB) march – Glasgow 4th May.
http://www.allunderonebanner.scot/events
Melvin, what is a Celtic nation?
Mad Unionist
The one that enables English legal and political culture to dominate life in Britain. The union that has blighted the life opportunities of those living in Scotland.
Petition simmering nicely. Lol.
CB, B. I am working class as were my Scottish hard working parents and do not recognise being blighted. Perhaps you can enlighten me with how I and my ancestors were blighted.
Mad Unionist
Are you forgetting about the McCrone Report and Thatcher?
Ha ha ha! I wonder what Andrew Simon Brown makes of it when he squints at that map?
Surprised to see NIreland lagging behind. What about it Ben (Madigan)? Any chance of you getting it out there?
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=231563
Petra says:
31 March, 2019 at 11:20 pm
Next All Under One Banner (AUOB) march – Glasgow 4th May.
http://www.allunderonebanner.scot/events
Which, is also Free Comic Book Day and Star Wars Day (for the uninitiated because it’s “May the Fourth”).
https://images.ecosia.org/4NcBMPrS0QIqJNPnMg84S0ZcKms=/0x390/smart/http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.stv.tv%2Fimagebase%2F185%2F650x366%2F185167-stormtroopers-at-glasgow-green.jpg
CB, B. As I said you change the subject when you are at a loss. Time for yer kipp. I have half a bottle of pinot tae tan.
I wonder who “Mad Unionist” previously commented on here as?
The style is familiar…
Mad Unionist
So Scotland’s lack of an oil fund, politically motivated de-industrialisation and a generally neo-liberal attack on Scotland’s civil society wasn’t blighty enough? What about austerity and Brexit? All of these damaging political ‘choices’ have been forced on Scotland as a result of Britain’s outdated constitution and lack of pluralistic democracy.
In what way am I changing the subject?
OT
Even after all this time there are people (elsewhere) STILL don’t understand Qualified Majority Voting (QMV) in the EU, and claim for instance that “Luxembourg has 0.11% of the EU vote and Germany has 15.93%”.
This is WRONG.
QMV uses the DOUBLE majority rule which requires BOTH a majority of at least 55% of member states (16 out of 28), AND a population majority of 65% or more. So 13 member states voting against can block legislation – no matter how small they are. For the first requirement of the Double majority rule, Luxembough = Germany = Malta = Italy etc.
Few people understand QMV.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/qualified-majority/
Dr Jim says:
31 March, 2019 at 12:38 pm
Chagos islands they could win that one, send in Colonel Ruth on a buffalo and Tomkins to talk them to death
Would that be a water buffalo then.
Getting worried at the big house.
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/queen-fears-being-dragged-into-brexit-chaos/
CB. B. The subject was independence for Engerland. Those terrible English hivvin tae meet ends meet and hating the Scottish.
Emergency plans in place to take the Queen to Balmoral to be guarded by Scottish security services in the event of a no deal Brexit
Who do they think she’s at risk from? Farage? bampot Robinson Yaxley Lennon?
A wee bitty over the top this is it not, doing the whole Skyfall thing
@ Petra who said:
“Surprised to see NIreland lagging behind. What about it Ben (Madigan)? Any chance of you getting it out there?”
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=231563
I have already published a post including the petition, Petra
Here it is –
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2019/03/31/brexit-have-we-left-yet-are-we-there-yet/
Don’t see what more I can do at the moment
As the petition (and history) show our voices are too weak to be heard at Westminster
There must be another way!
Mad Unionist
Context is essential to understanding, that’s why I’m adding context. I fully support independence for England but I can’t see England voting to impoverish itself. So it’s up to Scotland to grasp it future in its’ own hands. Wouldn’t you agree? Rational self-determination and human rights and stuff.
The English need Scotland and we should not abandon them. I like the word context!
OK, I point it out the flawed logic before anyone else does. England has just voted to impoverish itself, so you never know, England might chose to end the union and then we will know it’s for definite. Oh, wait….
@Mad Unionist
‘I have half a bottle of pinot tae tan.’
Olde England Sherry mair like ya bam.
Mad Unionist
Marvelous. So England needs Scotland and Scotland must consider the needs of England before her own needs? Do you understand the word patriot?
Betty ‘bricking it’ 🙂 Aye it’s tricky dilemma!
Well which crown would she wear from the two she can choose?
One is in the tower of London and the other is in Edinburgh Castle.
She is supposed to support a fair deal for Scots as ‘Queen of Scots’ among her other duties as ‘Queen of England’.
Mad Unionist @ 00:42:
Oh, an interesting variant that I’ve only encountered once before, a petulant outburst on some btl that accused the Scots of being “selfish” for wanting all those natural resources for themselves.
Do you have any notion just how insulting that proposition is? (No, ‘course not, you’re self-avowedly unhinged.) We have been exploited for years while being simultaneously demeaned as “subsidy junkies” and worse, but now with a dawning glimmer of just how much in deep-doo-doo an “independent England” would be, you appeal to our better nature as “comrades”. While fully intending to return to business as usual as soon as we put you back in charge again. Sleekit sneaks.
Well, forget that for a lark. We have put up with an awful lot from the likes of you over the years, but now we’re finally wising up. Not least thanks to Brexit, more and more of us are seeing just what craptastically effing useless
managersmanglers of our (and your own) economy have been, and we’re going to do things for ourselves from now on.So boo hoo hoo, collect your P45 at the door, and mind it doesn’t slam on you as you leave.
Petra @ 11:20,
With all due respect, Petra, and much as I’ve been uplifted by all the AUOB marches I’ve been able to attend, as things stand if by that date all we’re still doing is marching, we’ll have lost. And everyone will know it.
(Unless we’re marching to celebrate a major turnaround, that is.)
Tick tock, I don’t stop. I don’t know if anyone was paying attention when I recommended “natural law” as a balm to our pains.
https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1047&context=nd_naturallaw_forum
My Normative Philosophy and Legal Theory are a bit rusty but fill your boots if you can.
http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199688623.001.0001/acprof-9780199688623-chapter-7
Does classical liberalism imply democracy?
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3402/egp.v8.29310
Natural Law, Justice and Democracy–Some
Reflections on Three Types of Thinking about Law
and Justice
chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=11601&context=journal_articles
Justifying the Natural Law Theory of Constitutional Interpretation
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3720&context=flr
nasty business in the town tonite
high quality police reportage as ever
“clashes between football fans” followed, no doubt by “altercations” or even a “rammy”
– in real money, according to eyewitnesses
– rangers fans run into a bar full of celtic supporters and start stabbing people up
the celtic fans defend themselves and fighting spills out into the street
forget the liberal fallacies of
“old firm sectarianism”
or
“one side is as bad as the other”
or
“it doesnt matter who started it”
or
“its getting worse”
– to which I can only say
naw, its RANGERS
naw, its mostly one way traffic
naw, I think it does, usually in law
naw, its actually just the same, it quietened down when rangers were in the lower leagues, that was all
remember the guys who were on the stab tonight, were the same guys who attacked a peaceful YES gathering in 2014 at george square and would be willing to do so again; a new poll claims 63% of scots see independence as inevitable, which sounds great, but we still have these mad dogs to deal with – they will also be willing footsoldiers in any “strategy of tension” psychological shenanigans that the far right spooky people think up – the scottish govt needs to take a line on this as domestic subversion, extremism and terrorism
– also reports of a shooting elsewhere, which could also be related
losing the OBFA was a dumb, dumb move – and those responsible should be shamed, but I doubt it would have prevented anything that happened tonight
– it will be interesting to see the upshot, the cops have a notorious soft touch on these crimes; a few years back, after another bitter defeat, a rangers fan went into a blantyre bar, full of celtic fans, with a live chainsaw … this incident made the local press only, and was never heard of again – straight down the memory hole
Scrap that, there’s no real need to fill your boots. I think the only folk who don’t understand Scotland’s democratic deficit by now, do so out of choice. Either choosing to be led by donkies, or choosing to believe in fantasy. Either way, such an outlook suggests a lack of rationality, so logical argument about legal rights is unlikely to gain purchase.
NATURAL RIGHTS AND MODERN CONSTITUTIONALISM
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=njihr
While I’m here though.
THE MORAL READING OF THE BRITISH CONSTITUTION
http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/18915/1/18915.pdf
Can We Be Legal Positivists Without Being Constitutional Positivists?
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4057&context=flr
WHAT IS THE RULE OF RECOGNITION (AND DOES IT EXIST)?
https://law.yale.edu/system/files/documents/pdf/Faculty/Shapiro_Rule_of_Regulation.pdf
LEGAL POSITIVISM vs. NATURAL LAW THEORY
web.nmsu.edu/~dscoccia/376web/376lpaust.pdf
High time England learned to embrace the freedom of the Road.
A set of training wheels perhaps?
While some see the solution to their impatience and frustration is to project these onto Nicola & the SNP Scottish Government in a blame game, there is a developing realisation that the timeline for Independence may well be longer than some are currently set on. The reason is that it is taking longer than expected for the penny to drop with those who need to change from No to Yes. It is always very helpful to remember that Indyref2 only makes sense if it is certain that Scotland is ready to win it. That may yet depend
on the outcome of Brexit, but no matter, The Scottish Government needs to know what cards Westminster holds before betting on the Yes vote, part of which still yearns for strong and stable British rule.
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-horror-show-continues.html?m=0
“The main conclusion to be drawn from this week’s fiasco is the point which I have often made on this blog. The longer and deeper the crisis – damaging as its effects are and horrible as it is to live through – the greater the chance that Brexit is averted. In a post on 20 July 2017 I wrote something which seems to have stood the test of time:
“… for all that it will be a white-knuckle ride, committed remainers might have as their best hope that the government continue to display division and incompetence and bring Britain to the edge of disaster … Of course this is very high risk stuff, not just for remainers but more importantly for the whole country. Precisely because it means going right to the brink of disaster in order to avoid disaster, it inevitably means damage. The jobs and investment lost, the companies relocating, the skilled workers leaving, the shredding of national reputation will all have long-term negative effects. But, against that, we might just get out of the even worse precipice that the Brexiters want to push us over.”
If so, and again to reprise a point made before, that will only be the end of the beginning. It will only avoid disaster and still leave us with the job of reconstructing our battered and bitterly divided country.”
Relax, this is April Fools day. So today, take everything with a pinch of salt.
But you know what, with the Tories, every day is an April Fools day. And everything the Tories think, say and do, requires much more than a pinch of salt.
The UK electorate contains a remarkable number of salt free ready-made fools.
@ Ben at 12:24am … I see that you’re already on top of it Ben. Great stuff.
@ RJS at 1:32am .. Who knows what the state of affairs will be by the 4th May RJS? An extension period during which there’s an announcement from Nicola Sturgeon? That would make for some march. Whatever the case I’m just passing the info along.
Let’s hope the Scottish Government is following the Finnish lead not only in Baby Boxes – but in ELECTION SECURITY.
Finnish Security |
And since we are on the subject of elections, there’s one EU country which is worried a lot about the security of its own ballot. Finland, which shares a bigger border with Russia than the rest of the EU combined, is ramping up its defenses against the threat of foreign meddling in its April 14 election. (Bloomberg)
Been away for the weekend, not had time to read threads so apologies if some links are repeated.
https://www.gov.scot/news/tightening-law-on-home-detention-curfew/
Brexit Showdown: Deal, No Deal, No Brexit
https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-10538
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/03/31/bbc-scotlands-go-to-guy-on-snp-anti-drugs-strategy-both-wrong-and-corrupt/
Ian Blackford: indyref2 must ‘be the opposite of Brexit Britain’s anger’
http://archive.is/SRdtq
https://www.stirlingsnp.com/the-broken-machine/
The New Constitution looks like its to be debated AFTER independence has been achieved, after the announcement mentions the enactment would; “confirm” Scottish independence.
European elections look likely as Europe decides if the UK is allowed to participate. 10 days for the English MPs to decide yes or no to brexit. Plus there’s perhaps a general election looming.
https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/333700990614528/
Angus MacFadyenangus says
this is frightening
https://twitter.com/macfadyenangus/status/1112444531239051264
https://theorkneynews.scot/2019/03/29/no-deal-brexit-advice-on-medicine-supplies/
https://yesdayscotland.wordpress.com/2019/03/29/confirm-the-constitution-the-defining-political-event-in-scotland-history-2/
This week, Ellen Hoefer is presenting the Full Scottish and she is joined by guests, Dr. Craig Dalzell and Ken McDonald of iScot Magazine to talk about the big stories in the week’s news.
https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/full-scottish-31-03-2019/
https://theferret.scot/alexander-burnett-banchory-business-centre/ https://www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-december-2018-towards-relative-decline
“Europe after Brexit” – High-level lecture by Mr Michel BARNIER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfutqQZF20&feature=youtu.be&t=3722
Rumours of the Queen running away to Balmoral sounds like an orchestrated PR stunt for the Royals, a bit like sending what’s-his-face to the Michelin Factory, because we all know they care so very deeply about traditional tyre making in Dundee.
In danger??? Oh please… in danger of being irrelevant and superfluous.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-03-29/brexit-stalemate-has-caused-enormous-damage-to-u-k-princeton-s-o-toole-says-video
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-horror-show-continues.html
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-is-the-man-behind-the-fishing-for-leave-protest
REFERENDUM According to HoC(House of Commons) briefing note 07212 from 2015, the referendum was designed to be a pre-vote, with any withdrawal agreement going back for a people’s vote Convenient how they have forgotten that! Section 5 explains it….
https://twitter.com/EUflagmafia/status/1111571853531926528
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/adolfoflores/border-bridge-migrants-detained-camp-el-paso-texas
EXCLUSIVE: The Sunday Times has obtained secret footage of Dominic Grieve’s association meeting last night, in which Conservative members shouted “("Tractor" - Ed)”, “lies” and “liar” repeatedly. Just listen to the boos and jeers
https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0330/1039471-brexit-no-deal-tony-connelly/
Ivan Rogers talking to Swiss colleague:
video
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1112345990865059840
There seems to be a narrative building in today’s MSM – some of it subtle, some of it not – to blame the SNP for Brexit.
Anyone else notice?
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/03/29/the-next-election-democracy-in-danger/
Archaic, authoritarian, unequal to the challenge – parliament is broken
http://archive.fo/KQpVk
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/thank-goodness-the-most-dictatorial-executive-in-modern-british-history-is-also-the-most-incompetent
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/chris-johns-has-brexit-broken-britain-irreparably-1.3844600
https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2019/01/21/can-the-government-veto-legislation-by-advising-the-queen-to-withhold-royal-assent/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-food-disruption-ian-wright-shortages-eu-tarrifs-a8847796.html
U has been patient over Brexit but patience runs out – Juncker
http://archive.is/eDKLo
Theresa May was dealt the worst of hands and has played it spectacularly badly
http://archive.is/IHAHz
http://chronicle.gi/2019/03/cm-urges-may-revoke-article-50-ease-pressure-commons-rejects-brexit-deal-third-time/
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/03/31/when-protest-becomes-intimidation/
Factbox – Brexit multiple choice again: How will UK parliament’s indicative votes work?
http://archive.fo/uk9ol
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/revealed-dozens-of-european-politicians-linked-to-us-incubator-for-extremism/
Theresa May will be saved or sunk by Commons vote on customs union
http://archive.is/J3JlY
A summary of what we’re talking about today & why it is important
video
https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1112416365451927552
A short potted history of the BBC’s coverage of Vote Leave’s cheating in the Referendum.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1111896160262909952
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/30/lachlan-murdoch-fox-news/
“Europe after Brexit” – High-level lecture by Mr Michel BARNIER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfutqQZF20&feature=youtu.be&t=3722
Shocking Brexit changes ahead? Looks like there may be a breakthrough on the Government of National Unity front too. Goodness me, never rains but it pours. April showers, etc…
https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1112492772655812609
Brexit: the 12 days of Brexit (not)
http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87193
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2019/03/29/no-deal-brexit-explr-richard-quest-zw-orig.cnn
Interesting figure to remember folks:
Scotland has 25% of Europe’s tidal energy potential.
Not UKs, not British Isles but EUROPES.
That’s another for the “too poor” or “what’ll you do when the oil runs out” doubters and propagandists.
Assuming this isn’t an April Fools story.
http://www.insider.co.uk/news/bruichladdich-go-100-local-malting-14216300.amp
Check back later as four links are in moderation, includes yesterday’s Broadcasting Scotland
https://www.alynsmith.eu/scotland_in_europe_update_29th_march_2019
History comes full circle as the British Brexiters align themselves with…the German far-right
https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1112451584947089408
Jacob Rees-Mogg, one of the most powerful forces in Britain’s governing Conservative Party, has just endorsed Germany’s overtly racist AfD party.
https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1112445994082422786
Article from last year
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375
Man, there’s nothing like a nice cup of coffee with some Nana links in the morning. Rise and shine. 🙂
Morning Luigi
Catching up with the threads, I see some links have already been posted by alert wingers.
I reckon pretty soon I could well be surplus to requirements on the linking front 🙂
Obviously is the Peoples Vote crew are justified in campaigning for giving the referendum another shot then why not reconsider facism?
Nana,
You will never be surplus to requirements. The other linkers are of course appreciated, but none come close to you IMO. I’m sure many wingers will agree. 🙂
Saw this in the National. A day or so late but points out important facts about Poll Tax and Labour.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17540650.labours-history-lesson-had-a-few-chapters-missing/
Should also add that I remember that ordinary working folk who’d fallen behind in Poll Tax payment due to participating in the anti PT campaign were hounded by Labour councils rather than being helped to get back on track.
https://macalbasite.wordpress.com/2019/03/29/scotland-the-9th-wealthiest-nation-on-earth-by-natural-resources-per-head/
http://www.drewhendrymp.scot/digital-transformation-lined-up-for-highland-communities-following-full-fibre-deal/
https://angryscotland.com/2019/03/31/the-problem-with-bbc-question-time-angry-scotland-podcast-26/
https://21stcenturywire.com/2019/03/30/the-veto-film-exposing-cnn-al-jazeera-channel-4-and-the-western-media-propaganda-war-against-syria/
Nana , you will never be superfluous to need , not just when it comes to links!
In the Angusmacfadyen link there is a very wonderful piece by a young American woman – I stumbled on it after reading the original, well worth a listen as her demeanor and passion is what I expect from a representative of real folk and not a representative of big money.
Decommissioning
Decommissioned rigs are cleaned in Dundee. Major operation. There can be radioactive particles. The rigs then go to Turkey to be deconstructed because there are no smelters in Scotland. Major jobs.
Helicopters that should not have been flying were falling from the sky because UK Health & Safety rules were being broken by helicopter firms (Bond) breaking the Law and not following written procedure. (Unmonitored telephone calls not written recorded as per H&S procedure. People died. The Bond owners sold up for £Millions. The UK Gov covered up and did not hold an Inquiry. Despite calls for one from the Westminster Transport Committee.
The Westminster Tory Transport Minister & the CAA colluded to cover up. The situation still not resolved. Now calls from Unionistd for an Inquiry which the unionists Gov who they support covered up. Breaking every rule/Law in the book. The total Westminster mismanagement of the Oil & Gas industry. Tory high taxes when the price had fallen. Losing Scotland £Billions of revenues and thousands of jobs. Another Westminster unionist scandal.
Celtic Goon winds up Rangers Idiot two hours later people are stabbed and domestic abuse rises
If only we could find the connection to this? Just can’t think of what it might be?
Alex Salmond cancelled Poll tax arrears. People were prevented from voting because of it. They could not register to vote because of an illegal Tory unionists tax. No democracy. The unionists liars.
Morning Dorothy,
Alexandria Cortez firebrand and you might have missed this earlier outing
video
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1093601038622281728?lang=en
Nana , what a fabulous young woman though I would fear for her safety.
Thanks for that link and I will keep my eyes and ears open for her in future.
The curse of Scotland and the Scottish economy illegal sectarian sports clubs and Orange Lodges. A blight on sports and democracy. Suppose to be fair play. Paedo, racists, bigots and cowards running the clubs. Poor business. No wonder the terraces are empty. Everyone is sick of it. Just constant illegal trouble. The Police are even masonic/unionists supporting the trouble directly. Ex army. The Army used for cannon fodder illegally. An absolute disgusting disgrace. The sychophants unionists wasting public monies like there was no tomorrow. Abuse and breaking the Law with impunity. Supported by the British State.
A bunch of psycho bastards. Their own description. Illegally sanctioning and starving people. Illegal benefit cuts which will affect women and children brought in on ‘Mother’s Day. The Westminster lying cretins have no shame. Most of them should be in jail. Breaking the Law with impunity. McVey that lying, two faced hypocrite, breaking the Law with impunity. Reported to have said, ‘People care more about their phones than food’. That thieving lying tosser, along with the rest of them. An absolute disgrace. They should hang their heads in shame and embarrassment.
They will have to have a GE they can lose to get out of their appalling stinking mess. Leave someone else to try and sort it out. Until they mucked up as well. The muckrakers takers.
Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get one other to do as well. To get over the line. It will be won. Do the world a favour. Break the power of the Westminster inadequates. Once again Scotland influence in the world for the better.
An independent Scottish state would be the biggest existential shock to anglo-saxon world hegemony especially as our own North Brits were instrumental in helping to create that hegemony in the first place; a somewhat unsavoury aspect of the so-called Scottish Enlightenment. Unionists are proud of that, as Nationalists, aware of its destructive consequences to our own country, we ought not to be and seek to tear structures of such ethno-cultural and economic hegemony down.
Y?daì Y?lù* just the latest manifestation of the type. Not good for the oppressed Turkic Uyghur people of ‘Chinese’ Turkestan.
*China’s Belt & Road ‘initiative’.
Petra @ 07:16,
I know, I’m not getting at you. I chose my words carefully. I’m just longing for something more definitive by then.
And that any further time extension (which may not be forthcoming anyway) won’t be used to just put things off further.
The wait so far has been worthwhile, as the “management” in London has continued to demonstrate its utter incompetence to the whole wide world. And granted, the current situation is so unstable that anything could still pop up that’s completely unexpected. Con+Lab coalition, anyone? =laugh=
But all that has its limits. Soon enough we really have to start shaping events instead of just following them. And I think we both expect that to happen, no?
https://www.thejournal.ie/theresa-may-eastenders-4559197-Apr2019/
Ach, people like James Kelly are terrified of Article 50 being revoked. Normally I lap up what he says. He thinks far more about these things than me and is correct about the right strategy for the list vote at Holyrood for example, but just this once I will disagree. Personally I think revoking Article 50 is the absolute best thing that can happen.
If we get Brexit, the press will be full of ‘marvel at how shit Brexit is, just think how much worse independence will be!’ The fearties who voted No in 2014 will fall in line again. It will be a tougher, not easier sell than 2014.
But if we end up not leaving the EU thanks to an *SNP* amendment, the torrents of Scotophobia that will gush forth from all corners of England will be impossible for even the BBC to spin. We will have played straight and true through the entire process, saved England from self-harm, and come across as international and co-operative to the EU and rest of the world. And for this we will be repaid with spite and attempts to neuter Scottish MPs further, cut Barnett, with serious discussions in Westminster of kicking Scotland out the union and at the day-today personal level, Scots going about their business in England being treated like snakes in the grass.
Breaking up the UK is not something we will manage alone. We need the English to do their bit too, and the best way of making that happen is to thwart their will.
SNP will decide votes when we see detail of what is selected later.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1112638738042097664
MP Joanna Cherry hopeful of ‘revoke Article 50’ motion support
http://archive.fo/ymff6
https://corporatedispatch.com/news/easyjet-warns-of-brexit-effect-on-european-demand/
Petitions and jokes will not halt this march into Brexit calamity
Our response to the crisis has been too English. By the time the irony turns to anger, it will be too late
http://archive.fo/9UzDR
Liks which were in moderation have now appeared. See 7.41am
That’s all for now
Craig P says:
I have always thought the best outcome for Indy (out of a bad bunch) would be something like May’s deal.
A transition period would give a stable time to have IndyRef2 with Indy at the end of transition.
A ‘blind’ or relatively hard Brexit also puts clear blue water between an Indy close to the EU and Brexit well removed from it.
London trying negotiate the future trading arrangements with EU concurrently gives them something else to keep their minds of our campaigning.
I disagree with folks who thing a ‘no deal’ would ‘good’. A state of emergency seems possible. That would not be a good time to campaign.
At the other extreme, if Brexit were revoked I believe there has been so much abuse of Scotland over the last 4 years, arguing of Indy is justified. But, being taken out of the EU does strengthen our hand.
I guess we should say a big thank you to Labour MSP James Kelly et al, for all, the bad behaviour at a certain football match yesterday.
Not to mention the ensuing bigoted violence that followed mainly in Glasgow.
The keep them divided and fighting each other approach and they won’t then vote for independence is their plan.
In moderation?
It happens all the time. It is just a quirk of the internet. No withholding information
Nana says:
Awkward and difficult. If the SNP support any form of Brexit short of full single market membership, then they are giving positive backing to an unacceptable outcome. It’s potentially a situation which weakens the mandate for IndyRef2. IMO they did the totally correct thing in the first round by backing only revocation and EURef2 (which could lead to revocation).
They have set out their position. The should stick to it. Revocation but with a SM fallback.
English Independence Petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231563
The petition doesn’t state if you need to resident in England for your vote to count, but in case it does, an easy way get round it is to Google any council you can think of in England for their address and use their Post Code.
That way the “English” vote looks more convincing.
Havin a wee scan through and loved a comment upthread fae HYUFD – that banding together in a desperate attempt to save yourselves from yet another hiding, strengthens the reason to hang about and keep taking hidings.
This is off-topic, but, can anyone tell me what has happened to Peter A Bell, there has been nothing new on his blog since 16 February?
@Socrates MacSporran
I remember Jeggit tweeted some time back, Peter Bell was taking some timeout. I don’t think it was due to a health issue.
Couple more links while I’m here
David Allen Green article in the FT
Brexit tests the British constitution
http://archive.fo/nw1w6
Remainers, take note: much of Europe just wants to excise the British cancer
In Brussels, there is despair at the incompetence, ignorance and irresponsibility of the UK political class over Brexit
• Charles Grant is director of the Centre for European Reform
http://archive.fo/ixTH3
Socrates MacSporran he was going of reservation for a few month’s & getting pelters for it so decided to take stock & a few months off from Blogging .
Haha, that’s hilarious.
I’m signing it. One way to get rid of Westminster. It’s genius.
Richard Murphy on his website is saying he thinks revocation of A50 has as much chance of success as a no deal brexit, I respect his views.
SNP continue to work for revocation of A50.
If A50 is revoked it is very likely it will be followed by a GE and then another brexit referendum.
Many Scottish independence supporters think a Scottish independence referendum is imminent but in the circumstances I have described here it appears to me that it could take two years for a GE and another brexit referendum and I cannot see a Scottish independence referendum being done during that two years.
What are your opinions of this supposition
Start spreading the news, we’re leaving UK,
We want to be a part of it, E.U., E.U…
BREAKING: Theresa May resigns as PM!
Aye, Huntigowk Day richt enough:)
What are your opinions of this supposition
Sadly I think you are right in that Indyref2 is not just around the corner. Until we have ANY idea of what is happening with the EU / Brexit / Revoke 50 / GE mess it would be premature. I’m as impatient as anyone here to get out but I am a great believer in Napoleon’s dictum about never interrupting an enemy while they’re making mistakes. After mistakes… after mistakes….
When the dust starts to settle and we can see what wreckage we have to climb over on our way out – we’ll be all over the demoralised, infighting bastards before they know what’s happening.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Customs Union does not impinge on the Four Freedoms, but Single Market access does.
Customs Union means EU regulations, ECJ jurisdiction, and may or may not prevent UK making its own Trade Agreements.
So as a very crude analogy, the Single Market and Four Freedoms is a bit like Planning Permission / meet the requirements and you’re good to go in principle. Fail, and you get nowhere. And the Customs Union is like Building Warrant with actual rules and objective meaningful regulations. They’re not the same, but compliment each other, and one without the other is pointless because you still can’t continue your project.
I’m away from my Internet today so no idea what’s unfolding…
Nice 1 Cactus – and you got it in just before 12 O’clock too!!
LOL.
galamcennalath@12.05
Huntigowk, jings I’ve not heard that word for decades.
Nice one.
Ever since the EU Ref. I have been concerned that the fact that Scots are set to be deprived of their EU citizenship has not been given sufficient prominence.
Aye aye PC, ah figured it was marginally believable hehe 😉
Thanks for the links Nana.
……………………..
@ Robert J. Sutherland says at 9:36 am …. ”Petra I know, I’m not getting at you. I chose my words carefully. I’m just longing for something more definitive by then. And that any further time extension (which may not be forthcoming anyway) won’t be used to just put things off further. The wait so far has been worthwhile, as the “management” in London has continued to demonstrate its utter incompetence to the whole wide world. And granted, the current situation is so unstable that anything could still pop up that’s completely unexpected. Con+Lab coalition, anyone? =laugh=. But all that has its limits. Soon enough we really have to start shaping events instead of just following them. And I think we both expect that to happen, no?”
Yeah I know you’re not getting at me RJS. Most of us just use this site to get data / our opinions across by spouting information, that we are all very well aware of already, in the main for the benefit of newcomers to the site (Robert P being a prime example). Like you, and many other Independence supporters, I’m ”longing, REALLY longing, for something more definitive” to happen too in the very near future, as in this week, LOL. Most of us are getting pretty weary and frustrated with this Westminster / Brexit carry-on, especially if it’s taken over one’s life, on daily basis, for many years now.
On the other hand Brexit, warts and all, has been like manna from heaven for us and given us a second chance to get out of this hellhole, much sooner than we ever thought possible. It’s laid bare, to the World in general, the low level calibre, flagrant ignorance, of the lying, corrupt Unionist politicians who are calling the shots and the absolute debacle of the UK political system. Exposed the fact, for some who weren’t previously aware of it, that we are living (if you can call it that) under the ruling of a majoritarian democracy (522 English politicians versus 108 Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish combined) controlled by two English political parties (two cheeks of the same ar*e), in the main for over 100 years now, with a FPTP electoral system which leads to them consistently ruling the roost over the UK with well under 50% of the vote (even less so in the case of Scotland). And no written Constitution either, handy, so basically just making it up as they go along. More than anything of course treating the Kingdom of Scotland, one of the two signatories to the Treaty of the Union, with unadulterated loathing and contempt, whilst they (mis) use our country as their playground, rob us blind and dump their toxic weapons and waste on our lands.
Anyway I better sign off now as I could go on forever complaining about them. On a brighter note I reckon that Nicola Sturgeon will be making an announcement ASAP, extension or not, which means that we will find ourselves ”shaping events”, RJS, instead of having to wait for the blithering idiots down south to get their act together. We know now, in fact that, that will never really happen in totality, as this stage was supposed to be a wee dawdle, as per the Tories. But who cares, as they struggle on with their neverending manmade catastrophe we will be well out of it.
Breeks says:
Both is the SNP’s fallback position. Two are best, but either can stand on its own.
– Norway is in SM but not CU
– Turkey is in CU but not SM
All things are relative. To a hard Brexiteer CU is ‘soft’. To a Europhile, CU+SM is ‘soft’.
IMO CU is unacceptably hard for Scotland. I’m sure the SNP and Greens agree.
galamcennalath @ 12:05,
Is (our) James Kelly on another (or The Scotsman)?
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/04/in-post-ideological-world-what-brings.html
Has everyone seen this tweet. Eu referendum was an advisory one only. Clip of David Lidington saying so in the HoC in reply to Alex Salmond demand that all 4 countries in the UK should agree before legislating.
https://twitter.com/EUflagmafia/status/1111571853531926528
Whatever the SNP do or don’t do you know they’ll get the blame anyway
Petra says:
Indeed.
For me, much of the UK’s political deficiencies derive from the outdated FPTP. And from that many of the social and cultural problems.
1) As you say the winner is always a loser. The last PM / Party to actually win a GE with over 50% votes cast was, I believe, Stanley Baldwin in 1930. It just isn’t democratic.
2) It fosters a culture of winning absolutely versus sitting carping as opposition. It’s dictatorship by a minority. It fails to deliver cooperation, meaningful debate, and consensus.
3) To win with FPTP you need huge wide ranging parties. In practice, there’s only room for two at WM. as a result these ‘broad churches’ have to spend much of their political energy arguing among themselves. And as with Brexit, this can be catastrophic.
When the LibDems agreed to go into coalition with the Tories the price should have been a PR system. It should have been legislation pushed through. Instead they settled for a referendum on a stupid system. This was the biggest failure in their party’s history.
Twitter … Liz Rawlings …. “SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford tells BBC News his party will vote for the Nick Boles amendment on Common Market 2.0 this evening. That’s 35 votes. “
A Norway-ish solution. Not quite SM+CU but the softest on offer.
“Whatever the SNP do or don’t do you know they’ll get the blame anyway”
Yep – it’s amazing what 35 SNP MPs are capable of! 615 other MPs and the “SNP made us do it, honest, Guv”.
Of course, in the event of a GE, it’ll be “a vote for the SNP is a wasted vote” from the Red Tories.
I was told off for saying Vote SNP/SNP, Vote YES next time, was this just to stop me saying it. If it was It did not work. The person will just have to bring it back in another format.
@gus1940
I agree, I posted some time ago, what is the point of claiming sovereignty if another country can remove our rights. If these rights as EU citizenship is removed then the sovereignty votes at WM was nothing more than symbolic, Scotland overwhelmingly voted remain.
This is the only option I expect the SNP to support at WM, that is the mandate they received, not any other compromise.
@galamcennalath
If the SNP are voting for this then it is far short of what Scotland voted for. It also weakens any indyref2 case if that is the outcome. How can you claim a different position if the result is what you voted for.
jfngw says:
I would prefer the SNP to take a harder line. However, Nicola knows stuff I don’t, so I have to trust her judgement.
I do wonder if there a recurring element of supporting compromise/reasonable positions in the knowledge that these will inevitably be ignored as WM takes a more rightwing route. It looks good and sets up a situation where the SNP can say, “we tried to be reasonable, but now need to do …”. If so, it does seem like a sound strategy to get don’t knows/soft NOs to shift to YES when the time comes.
I hope that’s what it’s all about!
A clarification on today’s SNP support for SM/CU motion from Nicola.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1112698672788197376
@jfngw
As I said before I saw your comment …. maybe it’s about being seen to be reasonable, however all the time knowing the ‘reasonable option’ will be rejected by WM. A tricky strategy, but could be a clever one.
@ galamcennalath says at 1:02 pm … ”For me, much of the UK’s political deficiencies derive from the outdated FPTP. And from that many of the social and cultural problems.”..
Spot on galamcennalath and one wonders will this absolute debacle, with the real threat of the Union dissolving, now force them to change course? On the other hand Scotland and NIreland (and hopefully Wales too) will be heading off, on their merry way very soon, so no need for them to change anything at all if the English electorate are content with the current FPTP system / Majoritarian versus Consensual democratic model. That is, if they have a clue as to what that really means for them; what’s actually going on?
………………………..
‘The majoritarian democracy is in crisis, the proportional one is not.’
…”These points outline the 2016 crisis of inclusive institutions around the world as strengthened mainly by the electoral law. I believe indeed this is the case and that the FPTP is the major culprit, as indeed proportional countries seem to be able to cope better than majoritarian ones with xenophobe movements.”..
https://europaunited.eu/2017/03/25/the-majoritarian-democracy-is-in-crisis-the-proportional-one-is-not/
@jfngw says:
1 April, 2019 at 1:45 pm
@galamcennalath
I think voting for common market 2.0 is genius as we will have forced free movement of people and forced England to remain in all but name, but with no voting rights.
They will want Scotland well gone after that. Just imagine the daily heils take on it. And the brexiters, just like wallace forced defeat on Edwards army which wound hum up no end, rees mogg andco will be well pissed off.
There’s a new and (I think) jaw-dropping Electoral Commission/Vote Leave revelation coming later this morning. Watch this space.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112625683946188801
I understand that the story is with (1) lawyers and (2) the Electoral Commission. Should be up around 3pm (barring eg an injunction).
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112692521510019073
The SNP voting for common market 2.0 is in line with them compromising a little, on Sturgeon’s Dec 2017 position paper, so not unreasonable for them to do. In fact it shows them to an unbiased observer, to be seen to be doing their best to resolve the problem over Brexit.
But firstly it might not go through, and secondly the chances of it actually happening are small. For one thing I think EFTA, though they would consider the UK application to join, would bear n mind that the UK is over 4 times as large with 65 million, as their total membership at the moment with 15 million. Add to that what they see happening to the “regions” of the UK like Scotland, NI and Wales, and they would also be ignored as part of the renamed UKFTA when the UK takes over EFTA.
EFTA would have to be stark staring bonkers to agree to the UK membership, and –
“A request for membership of EFTA would be considered by the EFTA Council, where decisions are taken by consensus. It is not timely to prejudge what the outcome would be as EFTA remains open to examining all options to safeguard the interests of its Member States.”
https://www.efta.int/About-EFTA/Frequently-asked-questions-EFTA-EEA-EFTA-membership-and-Brexit-328676
(updated recently I think to include Brexit)
Yes Indy ref 2
You don’t half talk some utter fuckin bullshit.
Everybody is guessing different outcomes.
No one knows what will happen.
The best result for IndyRef2 is for the EU to say,,,enough us enough,,,and kick the English out of the EU on 12th April.
France are keen on this,,,and who could blame them.
C’mon Macron,,,tell England their time is up.
Yesterday the Mail on Sunday published a poll that put Labour 5 points ahead of the Tories if there was to be a general election now. It predicted that Labour would fall just short of a majority but would form the next government with the help of the SNP or/and the Lib Dems.
I was a bit sceptical of this poll as were many since the Tories has consistently had a lead over over Labour for years now. However I read just today a very interesting article from the lse the chances of a snap election.
This article was written 6 weeks ago on the 18th Feb and had a surprising paragaraph that makes yeterdays Mail poll not surprising at all.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/02/18/can-a-general-election-be-a-way-out-of-the-brexit-conundrum/
I would have said that the Single Market/Customs Union would mean our trading arrangements with EWNI are pretty much well negotiated and settled for after Indy…. That’s pretty huge,because it keeps things steady on the trade front. It also keeps the standards the same so Westminster can’t manipulate them and cause Scotland a delay in meeting our EU membership requirements.
Also
If that option is decided on…. Then Brexit happens…
So we are taken out of the EU, despite all of our representatives voting to cancel it as per our 2016 vote.
Then.. as has already been made clear many, many, many,times to Westminster.
The people of Scotland will be deciding if they are going to agree to it or not…
Therefore, I would have said that the Scottish MPs,should, continue to vote to cancel Brexit,and vote to get a soft Brexit as it serves the interests of Scotland on both fronts!I
Like it or not we are in the Westminster Parliament so we should always be using our votes to help get what suits us,which has not a thing to do with helping England get or not get their Brexit,as far as I can see!
@Liz g
Bit of that yes I think. The 35 SNP MPs with the occasional dissenter are still in the position they have to be seen to be representing all of Scotland including the NO voters. But if it helps the cause of Indy, as Scotland with 5.4 million population should be welcome in EFTA, then so much the better. The UK in EFTA / EEA and iScotland in EFTA / EEA would be an ideal situation, for quite a few years too, until iScotland wanted to go full EU.
It won’t keep all Remain voters happy all the same!
Well Angus won’t be able to vote
https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1112716963548184577
Why do so many people talk about the angels they wish for when the EU hasn’t even offered them a pin to dance on.
@yesindyref2
Looks like voting for a semi-blind Brexit as there is no agreement that we could join EFTA. If not admitted it looks like just voting for the CU option with no FOM in the end. It’s a risky strategy, if Scotland only ends with CU membership then it would be a massive fail for Scotland ushered in by the SNP.
Remember at present we are relying on the Tories to negotiate the EFTA membership, there is an incentive from some of them to have these negotiations fail, they have a track record.
Further to Nana @2.16pm
Vote Leave and breaking spending limits. A growing awareness of an illegally won referendum.
Sajjad Karim MEP Cons
As @Conservatives Legal Affairs Spokesman in @Europarl_EN
“I believe there are mutiple public investigative bodies who need to follow this up. Of course some will. Thats what comes naturally to a rules based legally ordered country.
Sadly today many wont.”
Norway already said they don’t consider the UK as a *good fit* I think we know what that means
However they did say an Independent Scotland would be a welcome addition, I think we know what that means too!
gus1940
Our EU identity is protected under international law, so the way that it is being stripped from Scots, suggests the English school of International Relations is running the show. English legal doctrine dictates no international Treaty will be binding on English law, unless approved by Parliament. Thing is, Parliament has a beef with the ECJ over supremacy, so I’m not sure if protection of our EU identity has been written into UK law. Britain is not a liberal democracy, it is a medievalist, neo-fascist, dictatorship. It’s a cultural thing and grounded in philosophy and English legal doctrine.
THE BECOMING-OTHER OF LAW: PRELIMINARIES FOR A CITIZEN’S CONCEPTUALIZATION OF LAW
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1870057816300361
Thought. Labour backing Norway+ because they know it is unacceptable to most Tories. Especially hated by May. Labour objective is to force a GE when May says she won’t impliment a soft Brexit.
Nana with reference to your two Jolyon Maugham links at 2:16pm, I watched the Politics Live programme earlier which covered a discussion on the Vote Leave electoral fraud (Gove and Johnston) and noticed them, Coburn and Steve Davis, panicking and shutting Emily Thornberry up when she brought up the subject of Gove. Let’s hope that the chickens are finally coming home to roost for Johnston, Gove and Farage.
The following tweet, and question she proffered, is taken from one of your links.
@douglasforbes … ”Why was the question by Emily Thornbury asking if Gove was Lord Chancellor at the time – silenced by a the Brexiteer Steve Davis on @BBCPolitics #PoliticsLive?”
……………………….
@ Nana at 2:16pm ….
There’s a new and (I think) jaw-dropping Electoral Commission/Vote Leave revelation coming later this morning. Watch this space.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112625683946188801
I understand that the story is with (1) lawyers and (2) the Electoral Commission. Should be up around 3pm (barring eg an injunction).
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112692521510019073
It looks like Common Market 2.0 will win easily tonight but that of course means very little as to whether it would ever be adopted.
Put it this way, it most definitely won’t be adopted by May to be put to a vote as an option against her deal so it looks like we’re heading for a General Election as the only way to kick the can further down the road.
If you look at all the variables from May’s point of view, I believe you would conclude that a general election will be necessary as a desparate last throw of the dice to prevent Brexit being revoked which would be immediately followed by a general election in any case.
If CM 2.0 does win and she adopted it government policy for a Brexit deal with the EU then half the cabinet resign at least and 170 backbench Tories call a vote of no confidence and we have a general election anyway.
May has just came up against that thing known as reality.
Here’s an essay that might highlight the significance of Scotland being treated as a possession of Parliament. Scots can no longer consider themselves British citizens, as we clear do not have the right to have rights.
The Contemporary Debate on Citizenship
https://journals.openedition.org/revus/425
CameronB Brodie 3;40
Ive always believed that the UK was a Monarchy possessing the Divine right of Kings
Looks like the Government are going to abstain on ALL votes tonight. Leads tells Commons that process in in contravention of normal procedure and Government will not recognise wishes of MPS.
There now will have to be a vote of no confidence.
General election looms,and on polling it is a hung parliament. Popcorn quick
Surely Common Market 2.0 is a form of Brexit? As Scotland voted heavily to Remain I am very uncomfortable with the idea of SNP MPs voting for it at all. [And emailed my MP to say so.]
@Nana
Joint Warrior on, the Clyde was all afloat yesterday!
@jfngw
Yes, but the SNP would still get a chance to vote against an unsuccessful EFTA / EEA application which left only CU – even if just as an amendment that could get defeated, to whatever final bill comes up. MV69 probably!
Anyways, by then other things may have happened 🙂
Forget the EFTA option – it will not happen.
The total UK economy is so-much larger than those of the existing EFTA members, letting in the UK would unbalance things – they will not allow it.
The UK was formerly a member of EFTA, but, jumped ship to the EU 40-plus years ago. The remaining members know, Britannia always waives the rules.
If the UK (England) did get in, they would immediately seek to run things, and they don’t do consensus.
BUT, Scotland, Independent of the UK – they would be welcomed with open arms.
I am coming round to the opinion – EFTA rather than the EU is maybe our better choice.
As I see it, we are facing one of three choices – in my personal order of prefernce:
1. Independence and join EFTA
2. Independence and join the EU (this assumes we get dragged out.
3. Anything but remaining conjoined to England.
@Petra
I have seen a few tweets re Thornberry & about how she phrased the question to Steve Baker on the politics show.
Jo Maughm has suggested “Thornberry is on thin ice”
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112699858081726464
Surely Common Market 2.0 is a form of Brexit? As Scotland voted heavily to Remain I am very uncomfortable with the idea of SNP MPs voting for it at all. [And emailed my MP to say so.]
CM 2.0 is not SNP’s 1st preference (which is to Revoke A50). The FM has said as much today. But if Revoke option becomes unachievable then CM2.0 is the least damaging option for Scotland (and rUK) in the short term. We will still be out of EU and will still trigger IR2.
@yesindyref2
Just for you, spot the April fool
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/
@Nana
Spoilt for choice 🙂
@yesindyref2 🙂
Hi Nana at 3:20 pm.
You typed,
“Well Angus won’t be able to vote
https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1112716963548184577
“
You can see why here:-
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zz335#200144cb
International trade secretary says options being supported by Labour, SNP and others in tonight’s votes are not “a proper #Brexit”
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1112735007213125632
Everything crumbling around Theresa May’s Tory party hahaha.
@Proud Cybernat
I’m not convinced. If this CM2.0 is passed and becomes policy I feel it will put a spoke in any IR2 till after the next Holyrood elections. The argument will be that Scotland got what the majority of its MP’s voted for, and it will be difficult to combat that argument. It may even result in a NO vote if one was held, those mibees are going to want to see how things turn out, again!
@Nana
Just flicked through them all, and they have this comment:
“The purpose of this article, aside from our usual April Fools day joke, is to highlight that reading beyond the headline should be the ‘done thing’ for every article and not only those published today. The real message behind this article is, be careful when you read news online or offline as sometimes it’s entirely false.”
Amen to that.
I suspect this one was aimed at me, the only “Nat” regular:
“European carrier work offered to Scotland, blocked by UK government”
He’s a good lad, his heart is in the wrong place but we can’t all be perfect like wot I am.
starlaw
It’s stuck in a time-warp, that’s for sure. English culture really is in dire straights, as the corporate media appear determined to ensure a hard Brexit. Brittish civil society can’t take much more abuse of power.
https://academic.oup.com/ejil/article/22/2/363/540681
Robust Normativity, Morality, and Legal Positivism
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~plunkett/robust-normativity-morality.pdf
H.L.A. Hart’s rule of law: the limits of philosophy in historical perspective
eprints.lse.ac.uk/3520/1/HLA_Harts_rule_of_law_(LSERO).pdf
Legal Positivism as Normative Politics: International Society, Balance of Power and Lassa Oppenheim’s Positive International Law
http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/13/2/478.pdf
In summary, the Electoral Commission reckons – wrongly – there is a legal impediment to it finding Vote Leave committed further offences – and so has decided there is no public interest in investigating whether it did.
Jaw dropping.
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112739673653346305
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/not-in-the-public-interest-why-the-electoral-commission-didnt-investigate-vote-leave-and-dup-donation/
BTW:
The link to flightradar24 I gave at 4.21pm shows the actual flight live.
After it lands (due shortly) at Brize Norton, you’ll have to click on “play” for this flight to replay it.
01 Apr 2019 Brize Norton (BZZ) (MADRAS11) 13:09
When it comes to Indy I meant, not defence 🙂
David Allen Green writing Preiskel law firm London
in essence, there may not be enough time if an Article 50 extension is agreed at the next European Council meeting to change the definition of “exit day” in domestic law before 12 April.
https://www.preiskel.com/the-legal-choreography-of-the-united-kingdoms-article-50-extension-and-a-serious-problem-ahead/
Latest tweet from Jolyon Maugham about the investigation of the dark money funding from the CRC to the DUP during the referendum:
In summary, the Electoral Commission reckons – wrongly – there is a legal impediment to it finding Vote Leave committed further offences – and so has decided there is no public interest in investigating whether it did.
Jaw dropping.
@Nana
So that’s the EC’s defence if I have this right, but there is so far no ruling?
OK, the last Legal Theory for today.
https://www.bjutijdschriften.nl/tijdschrift/lawandmethod/2017/09/lawandmethod-D-16-00001
ABOUT MORALITY AND THE NATURE OF LAW
https://academic.oup.com/ajj/article-pdf/48/1/1/6654275/ajj-48-1.pdf
The authority of law: Essays on law and morality
http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198253457.001.0001/acprof-9780198253457
Civil Disobedience, Moral Authority and Law
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/civil-disobedience-moral-authority-and-law-2151-6200-1000137.php?aid=64271
Another GE or EURef2, or even IndyRef2, with the present Electoral Commission will be hijacked by dodgy means. Dark money, illegal use of personal data, and many many lies. A message has been sent out that cheating is worthwhile because the penalties don’t outweigh the gains.
What should have been happened by now is EURef declared null and void, and some criminal should be behind bars for their crimes. What did happen? A few smacked hands plus a nod and a wink that’s it’s all fine and dandy.
We need to get out of this corrupt and undemocratic system.
o/t (sort of)
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-30/why-russia-dumping-dollars-and-buying-gold-fastest-pace-decades
“Now the UK is piling up real problems, Brexit craziness, stolen gold, them masterminding the global terror wars and the end of UK government controlled tax havens, the UK government behind global tax fraud to fill the coffers of the soon to be bankrupt Bank of England. It seems to be all piling on up there and other countries seem to stepping away from the UK so as not to go down with it” (my emphasis)
Hello Scotland… the light seems to be on but is anyone in?
OT
While browsing about sth else I came across this about the Former Cabinet minister Tony Banks who said of William Hague:
“To make matters worse, they have elected a foetus as the party leader. I bet a lot of them wish they had not voted against abortion now!”
Offensive, possibly, and a joke.
http://archive.fo/4hbzr
He also said, while Minister for Culture, Media and Sport: “Personally I wish the police had truncheoned the English fans to death, but I can’t really say that on the record”
Also, he crossed his fingers while taking the oath of allegiance to the Queen.
I do remember him, not as Tony Blair said as “one of the most charismatic politicians in Britain, a true man of the people.”
but as a bit of a tosser. I wonder if Kezia would as well, but then again he was a Blairite.
Gibraltar has called on the UK to revoke Article 50 .
http://chronicle.gi/2019/03/cm-urges-may-revoke-article-50-ease-pressure-commons-rejects-brexit-deal-third-time/
@yesindyref2
I’m seeing folks asking Jo Maugham whether that’s the end of it, I for one would hope not.
My understanding is because the EC have decided ‘there is no public interest’ they believe that’s that.
Sure Ms Cherry will have something to say about it all.
I just realised what lies behind Corbyn’s weekend outburst of “SNP betrayal” (and mee-too from the likes of Hassan). It isn’t just some strange hark back to Corbyn’s favourite era, it’s a signal – warning shot if you like – about this upcoming vote in the HoC tonight. Labour are trying to wangle their “extra-special” CU, and the SNP abstentions last week really rattled the Labour leadership, because they need the SNP to get it through.
However, the SNP don’t owe Corby any favours, and if they’re not careful, they’ll get done over by that branch of the BritNat Cartel again after their usefulness is over, just like back in 1979. The SNP position of CU+SM was principled, in order to guarantee freedom of movement as well as free trade, and is the biggest Brexit compromise I’m willing to swallow. Like Sarah upthread, I have written to my MP in such terms. (There’s an 19% coverage of the repeal petition in his constituency, so he could be walking on thin ice here.)
We should not at this stage be prepared to pander to Labour’s underhand anti-immigration getout, and for what, exactly?
I get that a successful motion this evening will make things even more embarrassing for the Mayhem Gang, but this is about way more than cutesy parliamentary games, it’s about real peoples’ lives, dammit. I’ve been willing to go along with the CU+SM offer to keep the UK from going right off the rails, but we have some red lines of our own. Or we damn well ought, anyway.
You know, all I see, looking back over the past few weeks, is the SNP/Scotgov, getting drawn deeper and deeper into the games and chicanery of Westminster. It will do them no good whatsoever. Two reasons;
Firstly, Nobody in Westminster gives a flying f what the SNP thinks.
Secondly, Brexit damages ALL who engage with it. It WILL damage the SNP. What they are saying now will be used against them in future, but with the true meaning lost in the mists of BBC and MSM propaganda.
I do understand their desire to ‘do the right thing’, but honestly, it displays incredible political naivety to imagine any good will arise from the SNP getting so involved in brexit.
The First Minister should be concentrating entirely on getting Scottish independence and retaining EU membership, NOT trying to save the failed English state from itself.
And in all honesty, nothing would focus the minds of the population of England more than Scotland leaving the UK union and staying within the EU. That, more than anything else, would stop brexit dead in its tracks.
@Nana
On the other hand, it gives the ScotGov good reason to ditch EC, and stick to the EMB.
galamcennalath @ 17:02,
There is another official petition somewhat along those lines, actually:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241848
It’s not as eye-catching, but worth supporting to get it over the 100k hurdle at least.
Typical…..
Joanne Cherry stands up to answer Kenneth Clark on the BBC News @ 5.00 and immediately, the coverage goes back to the studio! ?
@RJS 5.16 pm
Surprise, surprise. Labour whipping for all of the amendments chosen except Revoke A50 in the name of Joanna Cherry.
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1112749157922545664
If the SNP votes for, and somehow actually gets Customs Union and Single Market, that’s a Soft Brexit… How does that square with Scotland not being taken out of Europe against it’s will? Hasn’t that will been compromised by our Government voting for a Soft Brexit?
I despair at the ignorance shown in The National. From a 2 hour ago article:
“The Common Market 2.0 proposal is essentially to leave the EU, but keep the UK within the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) but with some changes. ”
The UK is NOT in EFTA so no proposal can “keep” the UK in it, the UK would have to apply and probably be rejected,
Not the first time The National has got it totally wrong about EFTA.
Hi Baldeagle,
Yeah, saw that too. Same old same old s**t
Disturbance in the HOC gallery there…
Yet to be determined
@Breeks
The 35 SNP MPs are not the Scottish Government, and the MPs voting for a “soft” Brexit for the UK, does not prevent the ScotGov doing whatever it likes. It’s two “separate” Governments!
RJS@ 0516pm , absolutely agree with your analysis sir . Under no circumstances should the SNP allow themselves to be dragged into some “ deal” with the Britnat Labour Party. This lot are worse than the Tories and our FM should remember the disastrous Lib Dem coalition with the Tories. If a GE is eventually sanctioned then under no circumstances should the SNP entertain any “ coalition “ with “Britnat Labour” . Let me reiterate “ under no circumstances “. SM/CU should be the “ bottom line” for tonight . The U.K. as a Union is “ finished” , our leadership should make that clear now to the “ Britnat establishment” SM/ CU is an “ interim” position for Scotland as our significant EU vote alignment with our EU partner states “ trumps” the slim “ No” vote to remain in the UK . Let me reiterate the “U.K. union” is finished / dead in the water.
Creating British constitutional law as a consequence of illegal actions, indicates the Brexit process has been removed from legal supervision and due process. We are in uncharted territory now. Law that undermines Scotland, is being created on-the-hoof by a parliament that has scummed to right-wing English cultural exceptionalism.
From an article in the Herald, Sturgeon:
“Today’s vote is not on a preferential basis so there may be an opportunity to keep alive ‘least worst’ options against no deal/hard Brexit,” she said.
“But to be clear, our preference is not soft Brexit – it is no Brexit.”
@Cactus
Some arse (literally) in the public gallery.
By-pass the BBC & Sky, watch it live without interuption.
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/14b23cd1-9472-44ba-9742-dd2deec361d1
Angus MacNeil points out that CM2.0 will make rUK EU rule takers with indy Scotland in EU giving them the rules.
What’s not tae like?
someone just flashed thier arse from the gallery.
Nigel?
EFTA and the UK: You can’t stay in something you’re not in, you have to ask to join it first and Norway has already said they don’t care much for the UK, the phrase they used was, the UK was *Not a good fit*
They do however like the idea of Scotland, well most counties do, we’re popular
The UK not so much, well not at all really
“Very shortly we shall be landing at London Heathrow, please adjust the time to 1900”.
countries
Hehe wiz that whit it wiz
Here’s whit Father J had to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e9Y023-mnc
Early reports deny any irish involvement!
The tyranny of English. Colonialism refashioned.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/11/06/the-problem-with-the-english-language-in-india/#2e6d56f5403e
yesindyref2 says:
1 April, 2019 at 5:39 pm
@Breeks
The 35 SNP MPs are not the Scottish Government, and the MPs voting for a “soft” Brexit for the UK, does not prevent the ScotGov doing whatever it likes. It’s two “separate” Governments!
Well that’s fine, except Ian Blackford in the Commons is the only person I’ve seen articulate the explicit notion that Scotland will not be taken out of Europe against it’s sovereign will. Can you point me to where Nicola Sturgeon has said the same thing and used the same words? No double meaning intended, maybe she has, I just haven’t heard it, but show me please. In fact show me anybody besides Ian Blackford saying as much.
And given that Ian Blackford has articulated such thoughts at Westminster, I refer back to my original question. Does backing a Soft Brexit option compromise Ian Blackfords assertion that a Soft Brexit is contrary to the will of the people, but suddenly consistent with the will of our SNP MP’s..
LOL for Robert Peston
Commons police showing their typical and admirable patience in the way they are removing the semi naked Extinction Rebellion eco protestors.
Last protestor who had superglued himself to the Commons glass security screen has now been carried out by the police. All very gentle and civilised.
https://twitter.com/Peston
Jings!
Lots of ‘new friends’ and unexpected pleasantaries being exchanged in the HoC with MP Cherry. Hairs on neck bristling a bit. 🙁
@Breeks
“ MSPs backed a motion lodged by Scottish Greens co-convener Patrick Harvie, insisting the UK should revoke Article 50 in the absence of an extension allowing for a People’s Vote.
In a largely symbolic move, the motion passed by 89 votes to 28, with the Scottish Tories voting against. ”
meaning the SNP MSPs voted for …
yesindyref2
Are you really stupid, or merely trolling?
Ian Blackford has made it clear, IF Brexit has to happen, then it has to be the softest possible.
The SNP’s 35 cannot keep Scotlan in the EU by themselves, so, it has to be, as far as possible, calamity prvention.
BUT, Parliament agreeing to Brexit happens is the moment which kick-starts Indyref2. Nicola cannot fire the gun on that until she knows for sure what is happening.
It’s called Realpolitik.
You can forget any idea of this government under May going for the softest of Brexit which is CU and SM membership. It just will not happen as the Tory party is too divided to even contemplate just CU membership even on it’s own.
This is all a ruse to force the Tories into a General Election in my opinion.
I’m happy enough with that if it comes to pass as it gives Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP to announce immediately that the Scottish government will be planning for a 2nd Independence referendum and will be demanding a Section 30 order from whoever forms the next government.
It also allows the SNP to fight that election seeking support for both the SNP AND a 2nd referendum. They can ask the people to show that it is they that demand a 2nd referendum. All we the people have to do is vote for them and give them a massive majority and hopefully one in excess of 50%.
Doesn’t matter if it fails to reach 50% as it will be close enough and something in to build on that will get us over the line when we have that second vote.
There is a plan alright, there will never be a better opportunity than at the end of this stage of the Brexit process. Westminster has never been weaker, the SNP have played them like fiddles and are well on top of this.
You’d have to be blind not to have seen it in play. Fear not all you doubters, I’d gamble on a 2nd referendum towards the end of this year even if a general election is thrown into the mix. The SNP cannot afford to dither and they won’t. Nicola Sturgeon will deliver on what she has been saying for the last 2 and 1/2 years and reveal what her plans are for a 2nd referendum very shortly.
I don’t think anyone here will be too disappointed in what she tells us and like you I’ll have to wait and see. Meantime I’ll continue to believe in Independence and those that have the best chance of getting us there and that means supporting Nicola Sturgeon and her strategy not slagging them off.
Each to there own I suppose but if you want to moan I’d rather they found somewhere else where there moans would be welcome, btl on the Scotsman among like minded folk might be a good choice I would suggest.
IMO there is no way May and her cabinet will agree to going back to the EU with Common Market 2.0 if it’s passed. She will call a GE instead.
Every party wants a GE, so everybody is happy.
To keep UKIP2 at bay, they Tories will stand on a hard Brexit. Their members and most Leave voters will love that.
Will Labour actually stand in a GE on Common Market 2.0 or revocation ? If they don’t they’ll lose IMO.
Scotland? If the SNP makes Brexit rather than Indy the main issue in a GE they won’t get the 1.5 2015 vote out. We want as close to 59 out of 59 as possible, IMO opinion that will take a campaign with Indy prominent.
Here’s a picture of the naked protestors in the gallery 🙂
https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1112766725160882177
How about calling IndyRef2 on the same day as any GE?
Particularly if Tory stand in hard Brexit and Labour on soft. SNP stand on no Brexit and that is only deliverable as Indy in the EU.
Over 50% on an ‘indicative referendum’ (no S30) would simultaneously deliver 59 MPs possibly.
With the world watching, I would call that a slam-dunk!
Breeks @ 6.14
If the SNP didn’t arrange Indy ref 2 in this Parliament,they would loose support.Support that they,despite every prediction and precedence, didn’t lose after the unsuccessful 2014 referendum
They know that. They,as “just a political party” like any other are not going to do the one thing that will put them out of power.
So even from just a pragmatic point of view they would have to be stupid not to go for it.The Mandate is good till 2021.It’s the Union that’s being damaged very publicly on a daily basis.
It’s Westminster that is coming to decision time!
We’ve a bit of time in hand yet…. no much mind ye but some..
So
In the mean time,the SNP MPs are no paid to sit in Westminster in the huff and no take part?
They have to do the best they can while we keep them there.
Nothing about any vote that they cast for whatever reason or outcome,changes the fact that Brexit will/can happen to Scotland,demonstrating a material change.
Even Joanna Cherrys motion only stops Brext for a while till once again our membership is at risk.
We are on the path to another referendum now no matter what happens at Westminster.
But nudging Westminster towards what will suit Scotland is,I think, the price Westminster has to pay for a Scottish presence,while it lasts…
Much the same way as Westminster is paying a price for insisting on the creation of N.Irish MPs.
They have explained why they are voting the way the are tonight,and I can’t see that it harms Scotland!
@Socrates MacSporran
Are you really stupid, or can’t you read?
The SNP cannot lose.
If they agree to Common market then they protect Scottish trade and jobs. As an added benefit the clamour from the English public to be rid of them would be inevitable.
Imagine 17 million English voters having to remain because of the SNP.
Delicious
Bob Mack says
Good point. English Nationalists will go ape shit if CM2.0 becomes the ‘will of parliament’, yet a majority of English MPs oppose it. Forced on them by Scots (SNP+Lab+LibDem).
Karma really will be a bitch.
@Bob Mack
Indeed. It;s a win-win, or at least, a no-lose no-lose.
Bob mack@3.53pm
Re: Gov abstaining tonight.
The speaker already covered this one.
If the gov (or anyone else) CHOOSES to not record a vote, that is their choice, HOWEVER, the result of the vote in question WILL be recorded as the carried will of the house.
Alex (big kiss X) is never far away no doubt watching and waiting, impatiently, like the rest of us.
Joanna Cherry:-
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1112722242142720000
Geeo @7.42.
” the result of the vote in question WILL be recorded as the carried will”
Same applies to Indyref2…..let the unionist boycott it if they wish…….the result will stand.
Hi Breeks at 5:35 pm.
You typed,
“If the SNP votes for, and somehow actually gets Customs Union and Single Market, that’s a Soft Brexit… How does that square with Scotland not being taken out of Europe against it’s will? Hasn’t that will been compromised by our Government voting for a Soft Brexit?”
As I see it…
IF, and it’s a big IF, parliament votes for single market AND Customs Union, it’s purely an indication of what parliament wants.
The government can just ignore it!
IF, for some strange reason, the government decided to go with it, then the UK will be in the single market and the Customs Union – but not in the EU!
What was it that was in the SNP manifesto? Oh yes,
We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the eu against our will. (snp, 2016)
Therefore, EVEN IF the UK stays in the single market and the Customs Union, Scotland will be “OUT of the eu against our will”.
If the SNP do not then activate their manifesto promise to hold a referendum…
Would they be that stupid? Complete collapse in support for the 2021 election would be on the cards.
I still think patience is required.
This is why May’s tea is oot!
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1112791172194369537
I believe no matter what happens now this Tory government’s days are over.
As far as Independence goes I don’t think we need care or worry much how it goes as far as our own referendum is concerned because they will be one even if there’s no deal. There will be one even if some deal is agreed that is not full EU membership and they will be one even if another General election is called.
Well, at least that’s my view on the matter. Our “best” outcome I think is no decision being taken yet on Brexit and a general election. Such an event will enable us to prove the support that is there for Independence before the referendum, it allows us to see where we are weak and where we are strong.
It will raise our profile within the EU during the campaign and we might never need to leave at all if we do this right. Much wishful thinking there but none of it delusional. Believe me all this is possible, all we need now is the trigger to be pulled. Get on with it MAY! LOL
I often notice the Brexiteers like to quote the Tory referendum promise ‘It is your decision, the Government will implement what you decide’. But for some reason when the promise to have an indyref if Scotland was taken out of the EU against its will, they suddenly decide that this promise is not valid.
WGD:_ ‘The Tory government, the Tory state.’
…”Now we’re hearing that if Boris Johnson manages to become the next leader of the Conservatives, then the Scottish Conservatives are considering breaking away. They don’t want independence for Scotland, but they do want it for themselves.”..
…”Independence activists warned in 2014 that a vote against independence was a vote to subject Scotland to Conservative rule. What’s happening now is even worse than the worst fears voiced then.”…
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/04/01/the-tory-government-the-tory-state/
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/april-fool-s-day-snp-plans-for-cash-free-scotland-1-4898994/amp
This starts off with the pretence of being an April Fool, but quickly becomes a full-on broadside of the Yes Movement.
Soon, it will be time to be rid of The Treacherous Scotsman.
Marketing works:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17543198.scotland-loves-us-and-the-feeling-is-mutual/
@manandboy
On 17 November 2018, a spokesperson for Johnston Press/Scotsman announced that all its titles had been transferred to the control of JPIMedia,
a special purpose vehicle (SPV), owned by the creditors.
Under the terms of the pre-packaged deal, ownership passed to a consortium of four lenders – CarVal, Fidelity, Benefit Street Partners and Goldentree Asset Management – who reduced its debts to £85 million and injected £35 million investment.
This however was subject to criticism by Johnston Press’s largest shareholder, described as a
“blatant pre-planned corporate theft by bondholders”, and was raised in Parliament by Frank Field,
‘It would be helpful to have an explanation of why it was not possible to find a solution that would have avoided the pension scheme entering the PPF,’ he said.
‘It is difficult to understand why it is possible for JPI Media to acquire the business, no doubt in the expectation of generating a profit from it, but without taking any responsibility for its pension scheme.’
Field asked the regulator: ‘Do you consider that adequate protections are in place to prevent schemes being dumped on the PPF, at cost to pensioners and levy-payers?’.
The Scotsman like The Herald has been debased by a bunch of corporate Unionist gangsters.
I know anxiety is high but can we please try to keep our claws to ourselves? It really isn’t healthy to allow Brexit to dictate you emotions. Time for some Neuroethics? 🙂
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12152-017-9350-7
In these times of high emotions I find it a great comfort to think of the Road Runner Wiley Coyote and Acme products
CameronB Brodie. I do not understand why anyone would be a Patriot unless a belligerent nation invaded. I would not be prepared to fight for the landowners of Scotland. Those that fought for Cherlie and the Clan Chiefs should have fought against them.
Mad Unionist
You been to the pub, what the hell are you on about?
When it comes to “Sense of justice or fairness” perhaps it would be a good idea if people read postings properly, followed a thread or sub-thread, didn’t misattribute words or sentiments to people arguing AGAINST those words or sentiments, and who don’t have the balls to come back and apologise when they fuck up. Perhaps too it would be a good idea if people didn’t come it with gratuitous insults against the wrong person – or even the right one.
That’s my five minutes of celtic grudge-keeping.
CB B. You mentioned being a Patriot last night. Were you drunk?
And if you don’t like those five minutes, I have other 5 minuteses 🙂
Mad Unionist
No, I only drink at social events. I remember our chat but I just though your interjection came at an odd point of the discussion, and appeared to be linked to some barely relevant Jacobean history, or something.
I suppose I asked if you were a patriot, in order to gauge whether you identified as Scottish or British. That is a personal question so I’ll leave it entirely up to you if you would rather keep that private.
CNN just mentioned that “Common Market 2.0” doesn’t solve the NI border situation. Which, if true, rather puts the kybosh on that as a workable solution.
A CU+SM win tonight would be fine, but I’m not clear that any of the 3 Brexit options covers that. Each on its own, anyway.
Though Thepnr upthread is likely right, it’s hard to see the Mayhem Gang accepting any of the options anyway. And the hardline Leavers are getting more fractious by the day.
CB B. I am Glaswegian born, Scottish and a UK citizen. Not a patriot of either.
CameronB Brodie @ 21:25,
He’s playing you, Cam, just like last night. Be wiser.
Fraser Nelson lives in London. His wife is Swedish, a migrant family. Yet he wants to stop free movement in Scotland where people are needed. A total, appalling hypocrite. Westminster illegal centrist policues taking resources secretly from Scotland depopulated Scotland. The population only increased after 300 years, with, 2000 Devolution. Without 217,000 foreign students included. Tories fiddling the the figures. . Fully funded an asset. Migration is 50,000. More come from overseas (Asia) than the EU. 28,000 protected status. (Ie 18,000 refugees – 1,000 from Libya which the West blew to bits).
Fraser Nelson is lying. A wee sleekit liar.
There is no smelter in Scotland so decommissioned rigs can’t be recycled in Scotland. Thatcher shut the smelter. Still steel plants in England, Wales.
That posh git Sir Oxbridge Starmer just dismissed Joanna Cherry like she was some ignorant jock upstart,
he did the same to Ian Blackford last week,
never seen a man so full of his own self, a complete narcissistic personality.
Mad unionist . I’m a patriot , and proud !
Mad Unionist
I appreciate that individuals place different emphasis on who they are and their place in the world, and I can also appreciate there can appear to be little to merit patriotism, or ‘brand loyalty’, towards Scotland. I see that. Scotland needs your loyalty and support now though, or there will be even less to feel patriotic towards if Scotland is swallowed up in the new state of Brexitania.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/patriot
Robert J. Sutherland
Me no dafty. 😉
That posh git Sir Oxbridge Starmer just dismissed Joanna Cherry like she was some ignorant jock upstart
That posh git is one of 4 children with a nurse for a mother and a toolmaker for a father. he was called Keir after you know who.
I think his heart is in the right place and he too personally supports Joanna Cheery’s amendment. Right now it’s party politics in play, Starmer may end up as an ally in our cause at least I’d like to think so. I’d rather have him as leader of Labour than Corbyn.
It’s a bit early to be making any judgement on him I would think.
CB B. You are not a daftie and the idiot who suggests I am playing you is the daftie. I am not a daftie although I am a Labour man and voted to leave the EU. I do not mind being in a minority and not being in the gang. All down to one’s opinion.
“The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does , and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does ; the first attitude creates a feeling of responsibility while the second a feeling of blind arrogance that leads to a war. “ – Sydney J Harris, 1917-1986, American journalist
Mmm, interesting.
All indicative votes fail.
Option C (Ken Clarke) Customs Union Ayes: 273, Noes 276
Option C (Nick Boles) Customs Union + Single Market Ayes: 261, Noes 282
Option C (Kyle) Confirmatory Vote Ayes: 280, Noes 292
Option C (Joanna Cherry) Revocation A50 Ayes: 191, Noes 292
SNP continue to hold the moral high ground.
TMAys deal or No deal still on the cards.
IndyRef 2 still waiting in the wings.
11 days until Brexit.
All indicative votes fail.
Option C (Ken Clarke) Customs Union Ayes: 273, Noes 276
Option D (Nick Boles) Customs Union + Single Market Ayes: 261, Noes 282
Option E (Kyle) Confirmatory Vote Ayes: 280, Noes 292
Option G (Joanna Cherry) Revocation A50 Ayes: 191, Noes 292
SNP continue to hold the moral high ground.
TMAys deal or No deal still on the cards.
IndyRef 2 still waiting in the wings.
11 days until Brexit.
(damn you cut ‘n’ paste’n’ haste)
Seems they didn’t listen to Starmer whose name is indeed being mentioned more and more. 4 Nays.
Wow…Nick Boles just resigned from tory party in commons!!
Ian Blackford “ Sovereignty rests with the people of Scotland, not this House. Our future lies in an Independent Scotland” great stuff
Nick Boles shuffles off as his Tory party will not compromise!
Going to find another place to sit on the benches. 🙂
Wow. Ian Blackford sets the heather on fire. Not any room for doubt there, I’m delighted to say.
Otherwise, the circus performance continues…
Mmm, I think there will be a bit more ramp-up from the SNP and ScotGov / ScotParl after this.
Primetime tv as well for Ian’s speech.
It’s like De Gaulle. Non, Non, Non, Non.
The British economy only improved when it was Aye, Aye, Aye. Aye.
Vote four Aye. Vote for SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Just someone to vote Aye two. Job done.
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. SAMUEL JOHNSON 1775.
Ian Blackford
“Sovereignty lies with the people of Scotland, not this House.
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1112826495909748738
My, My, they all look stunned and scared!
https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com
Detailed results
Wow, Ian Blackford didnse miss them and hit the wa’. Watched the whole thing on the Parliament channel. IB was literally shaking with fury as he put Scottish popular sovereignty front and centre of SNP future actions.
Things could move very significantly, very quickly. Keep that light on Europe.
Peston trying to blame the no to customs union on the SNP who abstained. Now there’s a surprise – CU on its own is deadly for Scotland.
Hello Peston:
“Option C (Ken Clarke) Customs Union Ayes: 273, Noes 276”
What about the 276 Noes you clown?
It see,s that all Scottish Tories voted against Joanna Cherry’s “emergency revoke” motion except Masterton and Gov
Mad Unionist says:
1 April, 2019 at 10:23 pm
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. SAMUEL JOHNSON 1775.
Yip – he was a tory, English pro Empire and a complete arse.
(Oops, spontaneous posting before, apologies.)
It seems that all Scottish Tories voted against Joanna Cherry’s “emergency revoke” motion except Masterton and UKGov teaboy Mundell.
Mad Unionist
OK, so neither of us are dafties. You’re a man of the left who isn’t particularly concerned about national identity and who voted to leave the EU. That about right? Would you care to tell us why you voted to leave the EU?
“The UK chief of German group Siemens also has a timely warning for UK politicians — Brexit is turning Britain into a laughing stock.
Internationally Brexit and Brexiters are increasing used as a joke to describe delusion, ignorance, stupidity, idiocy and most of all xenophobia.
Brexit: Entertaining the world with stupidity & idiocy since 23 June 2016.”
Time…
yesindyref2 says:
I’m glad the SNP didn’t vote for CU. it’s what I would have expected.
Scotland’s future relationship with the EU needs to be much more aspirational than a CU like Turkey has!
These votes are mainly spilt on Con & Lab party lines with a few rebels going each way. That would imply a GE might resolve things. They have rejected everything from ‘no deal’ through to revocation. Are Lab and Con capable of internally agreeing a Brexit policy, putting in an manifesto and then delivering it by voting it through? I doubt it!
The lamps have gone out all over england. They will not be lit again in out lifetimes. The UK is finished
That went pretty much exactly as expected and Mr Blackford kept it nice and clear for the assembled house. 😎
Scottish Labour MPs apparently voted FOR Cherry’s amendment.
Good one from Iain Blackford at 10:24pm …
They all look stunned and scared at 10:24pm …
None more so than Queen Lizzie I suspect. I’ve got this vision of her sitting in her counting house and her Private Secretary entering the room to say Ma’am Iain Blackford’s on about the Scottish people being Sovereign again.
Queenie …. Piggy screech.
Next day Ma’am the polls show support for Independence is rising.
Queenie … Piggy screech.
Following day Ma’am they are talking about dividing up your assets such as Estates, Crown Jewels, and so on, on Wings over Scotland.
Queenie … Series of piggy screeches followed by that’s it, send the guard to Bath and escort the tractor to the Tower of London.
Private Secretary .. That’s part of Scottish assets too. Ma’am.
Queenie cowers in the corner oinking away like a stunned and scared wee piggy. Time’s up Lizzie and don’t you know it.
The SNP may have abstained on the Clarke motion but backed the other three. The Labour MPs voting against the whip scuppered Clarke not the SNP. Likewise Labour rebels scuppered the second and third motions.
@galamcennalath
Yes, Scotland needs the SM, particualrly freedom of movement.
I posted this elsewhere:
“4.7. In addition to its direct contribution, the sustainable tourism sector also supports activity in other sectors of the Scottish Economy. 4.8. In 2016, total expenditure by domestic and non-domestic tourists in Scotland, including overnight and day visitors, was around £9.7 billion”
https://www.gov.scot/publications/tourism-scotland-economic-contribution-sector/pages/5/
and
“In the year to June 2018, the Scottish tourism sector employed 21,000 EU nationals, accounting for 11.6% of employment in the sector”
https://www.visitscotland.org/supporting-your-business/advice/brexit
and that’s just one of the reasons the SM is needed.
Blackford stressing on Newsnight that a majority of Scottish MPs voted for a PV, a majority voted for revocation and a majority voted for SM/CU.
A clear appeal for the country to unite against the Tories and Brexit under the banner of Scottish popular sovereignty. Oooftt!
HandandShrimp @ 22:55,
Five FibDems also voted against Clark’s motion (and one for it), including Liar Carmichael and leaderene-in-waiting Swinson. (Oh, and Stu’s very own MP as well.)
@HandandShrimp
Precisely, Corbyn now has it in his his power to stop Brexit. That’s if he really want’s to, guess we’ll find out on Wednesday.
Joanna cherry was brilliant today
@Heart of Galloway
Indeed, let’s hope it has some traction. It’s only most of the the Scottish GTory MPs are against the EU, and not even Masterton and Mundell.
All kind of scuppers T May’s plan to have a run off with her deal Vs tonight’s winner.
Unless of course she wishes to humiliate herself further by losing against an option that itself doesn’t have a majority among MPs.
What happens now then? Indicative votes for hard Brexit? And the least unpopular goes up against the least unpopular soft Brexit option. The winner to face May’s deal in the final. Best of seven votes.
I honestly think WM politics may be stuck in a ghastly, pointless time loop forever.
I’ve been happy to wait but I really think NOW is the time. Go on Nicola!
@madunionist:
I am not a daftie although I am a Labour man:
Labour man?
Daftie !
CB B. My national identity has been established since I was born. I am a moderate democratic Labour person. I voted against the EU for the same reason I voted to leave the EEC. Countries can trade as they have done for centuries without a big brother organisation. The EU is attempting to build an Empire and an Army. No more Empires they end up going to war.
The EU was involved in the destabilising of the Ukraine along with the CIA USA.
I think we have waited long enough, given them chance after chance, it’s time to get out of this shit show before we’re trapped in the vortex.
@Mad Unionist
Love the handle, suits you x
Patrick Rodden (known as Paddie) does not live in his favourite country.
“We’ve got the worst prime minister since Anthony Eden.
“We’ve got the worst leader of the opposition in the entire history of the Labour Party
“And we’ve got the worst Parliament since Oliver Cromwell”
– Former Conservative MP Ann Widdecombe
But it’s not like they have anything really important to deal with, have they?
#newsnight https://t.co/HZOufgvctV
I think these days I’d be feeling pretty mad too, if I was a unionist.
Latest BBC rumour:
Cabinet to send PM for the last time to confront the EU27 eye to eye during the week and threaten a ‘No Deal’.
FGS! Going ‘all in’ on a pair of deuces…. 🙂
That’ll work.
I disagree with the Oliver Cromwell comment. He got rid of an idiot King who thought he was gods representative on Earth.
I’d love a GE if only to break the monotonous shit ridden goings on in the wm parly.
If Scotland had voted Yes in 2014 none of this would be happening, Scotland would be in the EU and England would be having to actually start paying Scotland the £1.36 billion for the 2018 energy transfer to keep their lights on which was double the 2016 2017 figure, and negotiating permissions to use our waters or fly over us or the ton of other stuff they would have to start paying for instead of just taking
Or maybe some rent for the big bloody nuclear submarines we don’t want
England without Scotland has nothing to sell (Steve Rodgers Bloomberg)
And they can get their Union flags off Scotlands produce pronto
Mad Unionist
That appears to be an ideological position that has been influenced by half-arsed Marxism on mushies. Have you been influenced by that Duncan Hothersall. Are you Duncan Hothersall?
There is no left-wing case to justify Brexit. There is no moral case for Scotland to be dragged from the EU by England.
@call me dave
Yeh, that’ll work hahahaha Duh!
Aye, noo we’ve got the proxy divine right or idiots running the show. But yeah good on old Ollie and his army 🙄
They chopped down the old oak tree!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKL6bmiuLmg
@MAD unionist
I’ve got news for you, they still think this but just keep it to themselves for now.
Is that MAD as in Mutually Assured Destruct lingo.
HYFUD would be so proud of the ignorance of Crowellian Scottish history.
9m ago
23:39
The SNP MP, Joanna Cherry, whose amendment to revoke article 50 came bottom of the table, said she would now move away from trying to fix UK issues and focus on Scotland. Expressing fury with Labour for whipping against her option she has said:
I don’t know why they whipped against because when I spoke to Keir Starmer he was unable to give any kind of coherent explanation. I know many people suspect it’s because because Labour couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a motion in the name of someone from the SNP.
Labour has put a dreadful, incompetent, hopeless Tory government in a stronger position. From now on, my principal focus will be on how best to protect Scotland from this chaos.
Mad Unionist @ 23:14,
With your views, you’re not a “moderate” anything. A neo-Stalinist Corbynite roaster, more like.
My apologies to the Crows!
The Westminster leader of the SNP, Ian Blackford, shares Cherry’s anger with Labour, saying a second EU referendum must now be the priority.
The SNP’s priority is to stop the Brexit chaos and the catastrophic consequences it will have on Scotland and the UK’s economy, jobs and living standards.
The public vote motion received the biggest number of votes in favour in Parliament and it is now clear that the only way to break the Brexit impasse is by bringing this back to the people – with remain on the ballot paper.
It is also welcome to see growing support across the parties for the SNP’s motion to revoke article 50 to avoid a no-deal Brexit outcome. However, the decision of the Labour leadership not to support the motion is unforgivable and a damning indictment of the party.
Given everything we now know, the best way forward to break the Brexit impasse is to put the decision back to the people in a second EU referendum – and both a referendum and revoking Article 50 must be part of the next steps in this process.
People in Scotland have been ignored throughout the Brexit process. Any pretence that Scotland is treated as an equal partner in the UK has gone out the window. Whatever happens now it is clear that the only way to properly protect Scotland’s interests is with independence.
Ah CB B, wants Scotland to be a subservient former country run by Germany and France. Get rid of the English mentality and bring in the someone else to run Scotland. Goalposts change and half time whistle blows.
“She is currently working on a new study of Scottish political culture during the 1640s”
I can’t wait to not read it.
http://www.olivercromwell.org/wordpress/?page_id=818
Petra Even if Scotland voted for independence the SNP have been clear the Queen will remain Queen of Scotland indeed Deltapoll found 41% of Scots in favour of the monarchy to only 28% against which is a bigger margin than the Union won by
http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/monarchy-union-scotland-support-data
K1 @ 23:49,
The Bain Principle at work again, I presume. It’s slowly destroying their tawdry wee outpost in Scotland, so more fool them!
Eh son, Scotland’s a subservient former country run by England right now where our votes count for nothing
Queen of Scotland – no such title exists
The SNP may not be the government post Independence so the Queen will have to take her chances on the people of Scotland deciding her future relevance
@K1 11:56pm
I forgot about that, Trolls eh what can you do
K1 The Chancellor Philip Hammond is apparently going to advise the Cabinet to prepare for EUref2 according to tomorrow’s Times
Mad Unionist
Sorry, I can help myself sometime, though I couldn’t think of a polite way to say that your outlook is ill-informed and naive. There are many things wrong with the EU but at least they respect cultural and territorial boundaries, unlike Westminster.
If the Cabinet does not agree to a compromise to back staying in a Customs Union
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1112844231964545024?s=20
K1 @ 23:56,
He’s English, and doesn’t have a clue, constitutionally speaking. Which qualifies him for anglosplaining, if nothing else.
Notice how he tries to bring the monarchy into play from nowhere? Straight out of the divide-and-rule playbook. They’re so obvious.
K1 The Queen is a direct descendant of Mary Queen of Scots, the Scottish and English crowns were united under James VIth of Scotland and 1st of England over a century before the Act of Union between England and Scotland
@HYUFD
April Fools day was yesterday, you appear confused.
keep calm and vote abba!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKL6bmiuLmg
So what?
This is all pish and wind. Seriously Hammond? Like anything he says or does has any bearing on Mad May?
You really don’t pay attention do you?
Shit sometimes get involved and forget to ignore that guy. OK now.
After today’s voting and the rejection of all offered it looks seriously like it’s theresa,s deal or crashing out of the EU.
Crashing out harms even those who want out but don’t want Theresa,s deal so I don’t see that happening.
Theresa,s deal it is.
Then it’s the new game in town, do a runner never to be seen or heard again
Cameron invented it
The press and BBC will play along pretending nobody can be held responsible
Theresa resigns as promised
Insufficient MP,s in favour of a GE re-election would be unlikely for many of them
A new Tory PM chosen who goes full on British empire threatening dissenters
SNP call a Scottish independence referendum
New PM says now is still not the time ( with a snigger )
The Alexander’s appear on tv saying the same thing
Ruth appears on tv saying the same thing
Then it’s down to us
Mary Queen of Scots – This is the correct title
🙄
Mad Unionist
“subservient former country run by Germany and France”
Are you sure you’re a man of the moderate left, you sound more like a paranoid zoomer of the far=left to me.
Talking about mad unionists …
Hi Mad Unionist at 11:14 pm.
You typed,
“Countries can trade as they have done for centuries without a big brother organisation.”
Aherm….
The Hanseatic League was a commercial and defensive confederation of merchant guilds and market towns in Northwestern and Central Europe. Growing from a few North German towns in the late 1100s, the league came to dominate Baltic maritime trade for three centuries along the coasts of Northern Europe. Hansa territories stretched from the Baltic to the North Sea and inland during the Late Middle Ages, and diminished slowly after 1450.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League
Perchance a wee revision of your knowledge of history is in order?
@Terry callachan
Man your post is sore on the eyes. at least try and make it readable.
.
An Englishman living in Scotland has been banging onto me about his view that…
There are too many Asians in Glasgow for his liking”.
It was a delight to advise this loud, arrogant English wan*er that…
I was born in Glasgow.
An Asian surgeon saved my life.
The Asians born in Scotland that I know are too polite to complain about there being ‘too many Englanders in Glasgow!’
Maybe he should lower his loud, grating English voice and perhaps look up the word ‘ironic’ in a dictionary”.
I have a good number of decent English friends who have paid Scotland a great compliment in making it their home, but…
Some days I just get heartfelt scunnered and disgusted with those little Englanders from Kent, Liverpool, Birmingham and Yorkshire that shove their biggoted hateful views in my face and pollute my country of Scotland with their vile pish.
Mornin’ HYUFD ~
What aye understand, is that even IF that were the case, this and many other questions will be decided by Scotland, sooner or later for decision by excellent The People of Scotland, our own sovereign referendums
From and of, an independent Scotland, again
CB B. zoomer! Was that an ice lolly? Maybe a bazooka! The far left left Labour and turned to the SNP and discovered the SNP were Tories and have gone quiet due to their embarrassment.
Ah think ah ‘could’ concur with this observation:
‘Are you sure you’re a man of the moderate left, you sound more like a paranoid zoomer of the far=left to me.’
But…the contradiction in terms of so called ‘internationalist socialist values’ somewhat falls apart when one views this comment to another poster upthread:
‘Mad Unionist says:
1 April, 2019 at 11:25 pm
Patrick Rodden (known as Paddie) does not live in his favourite country.’
Ahm of the view that the poster is perhaps a bigoted sectarian rather than anything to do with any political party affiliations he claims for himself.
I of course could be very much mistaken in this regard and I’m willing to hear whether I’ve inadvertently misconstrued his meaning in that comment to Mr Rodden?
@Al-Suart
What was that post all about?
Hey Dr Jim ~
May aye kindly tag on a wee “…or need” on to the end of that
Cheers good Doc, whitta day at the commons hehe 🙂
@K1
I’m of the opinion that we should be laughing at the Mad Unionist and others that have followed in his wake hahahaha.
We see you, we do pay attention LOL.
@Thepnr
Dunno, but Al-Suart’s only been posting on Wings a few days, as opposed to Al-Stuart – with a “t”.
.
P.S.
Re last post about the biggoted English wan*er who dislikes Glaswegian Asians.
I meant to finish my post by saying it gave me great pleasure to recommend he signec this petition….
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231563
… to my surprise he said: EEEHH OUP LAAD, AAHH THEENK AAHLL SINE T’PETITION AN GET ME CUNTREE BACK BY ECK.
CB B. I do not get this cultural thing you mention about the EU respecting. What do you mean and what cultures?
https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1112844604523626496
An interesting thread from the Rev’s Twitter account as to why Nick boles felt so aggrieved. At the heart of the May’s aggressive whipping against the motion was the threat to the Union and conceding to the SNP.
They are getting very twitchy.
Hey Cactus
I throw big chuckies at the subs from the hill every time I pass, ye kin nearly reach them wae a good throw
mad unionist I can see that you hate the EU so much but logic is not your strongpoint.
You say the EU wants an army and is likely to cause war as all empires do but clearly you don’t have reliable sources of information because all the countries in the EU had armies before joining the EU and continue to do so.
We are currently enjoying the longest period of time in Europe without war and best evidence says that it is because of the EU getting all member states around the table regularly to discuss important matters and help each other that there has been this longest period of time without war in Europe.
Your preference of ending the EU is the one thing that is more likely to lead to war in Europe .
You call yourself mad unionist, but you are clearly neither mad nor a unionist, you put your case well but don’t unite at all, your preference is to disunite on a very grand scale such disunity has throughout time always left a vacuum that was only ever filled with ambitious despots eager for glory and a quick gain,your option is the warmonger option, one that fits well with the modern blairite group of politicians ,I’ve sussed where you stand.
Take this advice, switch your thoughts to saving the planet ,green energy,saving our insects and animals from extinction, it will help you to make more sense of things .
That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s 2 different posters, askimet will recognise the same name spelled wrongly and over time will allow comments through with their respective misspellings Happened over and over again with Sensibledave and all his misspellings if ye recall. And it is more likely that Al-Stuart is also Al-Suart rather than completely different posters with one letter missing.
Could be wrong on this maybe Al could confirm, if he’s a mind to.
THEPNR,
It”s been a long day.
My post was about how nasty things are in England because of Brexit.
How Scotland is becoming polluted by the Brexit intolerance and bigotry.
Most importantly how Rev Stu., is spot on to link the IndyRef for England on his website…
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231563
Hope this is okay with you?
I rest ma case 🙂
Fair play!
A dedication to all the perceived trolls out there hehe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRac6dqNTlE
This is genius HA HA HA
Hi K1,
Thanks for pointing out the missing ‘r’ in my name. Haven’t a clue how that happened.
I appreciate someone taking the time to let me know.
All sorted now.
Cheers, Al Stuart.
@K1
I can confirm with 100% certainty that Al-Stuart who has posted on Wings sings 2014 has no connection whatever with Al-Suart who is a newbie.
Maybe a newbie that looks like a long term poster and I’ve saw that more than once. In this case the very first time I saw the Al-Suart post I said to myself “you what”.
Then I realised it was a different spelling and not the same poster.
Hey Al-Suart what the fuck were you trying to say in your post at 12:15 and where did the story come from. I suspect your sick imagination is solely responsible.
You’re a mad unionist if you think we will fall for that crap LOL.
Mornin’ Al-Stuart, so ah was right wae yer moniker the 1st time efterawe, hehe that’s cool
How ye been doin’ mate
We’ve had exchanges before
Howsabout awe this nonsense at the Commons the day Al?
Cheers
HAHAHA 100% wrong, no fucking way LOL
Well there you are and even now I still don’t believe it.
Thepnr @ 12.22
Aye well,we mibbi pay “some” attention…
But we sure as shit can multi task,and one day soon they will aw work out…
They never distracted us at all 🙂
Us, or any new reader who is seeking information and got this far into the comments who is also going to be far too smart to fall for it…
I do wish they were at least funny rather than consistently ridiculous though. tis a pity….
Mr Callachan, please break up your posts into paragraphs leaving a couple of spaces between each one, otherwise it is difficult for posters to read the lengthy posts that commenters post without paragraph breaks.
Rev has this aspect covered in ‘Etiquette and Formatting’ section of the web site, click on ‘About us’ at the top of any Wings page and scroll down to relevant section:
‘So please, please, please put some paragraphs breaks into your posts. One after every two or three sentences is a good ballpark figure. And as you’re using the internet, not a typewriter, there’s NEVER, EVER any reason for hitting Return once. It’s either none or two, depending whether you’re starting a new paragraph or not.’
Hey Dr Jim
Ah’ll come an join ye for it, ah’ll buy us 2 catapults 🙂
We could try eggs…
@Al-Stuart
It was a missing t and not a missing r.
Have you read the posts from Al-Suart? Was that you?
Telt ye Thpnr, 😉 we had this over and over again wi Sensibledave and others until Crazycat and me and others figured out wtf was going on, experimented with both names and email addresses and realised that askimet adapts, though initially on first misspelling comment is held in moderation, after that you can post and make errors until it really isn’t a problem. 🙂
Terry callachan, I do not hate anyone. The EU participated in the Balkans War to expand. They are dangerous. They hold members to ransom over spending on public services. They now dictate policy to former independent states. And you want Scotland to kneel to them.
Yes it was/is him Thpnr, very unlikely that there would be 2 posters with such similar names and the format that Al is using with the dash between first and second name.
And yes I had noticed the misspell before, but I’ve always known it was Al that was posting. 🙂
There is a difference between being poorly informed and being ill-informed. If you are poorly informed, you have insufficient information on which to pass judgement. If you are ill informed, your heed’s full of mince.
There is a difference between being poorly informed and being pathologically thick. It is possible to inform oneself through self-education, subsequently transforming oneself to become a well-informed, emancipated, human-being. It is less easy to cure self-sustaining idiocy.
Time, as always, is a crucial factor. Time and events conspire against the both ideological and the intentional.
LOL we now have two Al-Stuart posters on the same thread but obviously with different email addresses.
Would the REAL Al-Stuart please step forward. Oh I’m gonna wee misell LOL.
No Thpnr, it works with misspellings of email addy’s too. Seriously, it does. I’ve misspelled my email address and initially it was moderated, now the misspelling gets through without moderation.
Hi CameronB Brodie at 12:49 am.
You typed,
“There is a difference between being poorly informed and being ill-informed. If you are poorly informed, you have insufficient information on which to pass judgement. If you are ill informed, your heed’s full of mince.”
eh huvnae read such elucidation since the Pope $h@t in the woods!
Mad Unionist
re. culture. It is the intellectual and spiritual identity of a nation. It is worth defending. If you are truly a man of the left, then I suggest you learn to accept this. It is vital to your well-being.
What is Culture? Raymond Williams and the Cultural Theory of “Customary Difference”
https://s-usih.org/2009/02/what-is-culture-raymond-williams-and/
Brian Doonthetoon 😉
In HOMEage to the unfolded events at and on the green seats yesterday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMXg_I7YY0o
Timestamp check circa 55 seconds in
Love, Scotland X
It’s still anti-English and divisive, with or without a t.
Yeah, thanks for ruining April Fools’s Day Westminster.
When the only gag that remains possible was along the lines of ‘Westminster today agreed on a rational Brexit policy.’ then you know things are truly beyond parody.
@K1 @yesindyref2
When poster Al-Suart first showed up on Wings I searched for their previous posts and there were none. So I looked for Al-Stuart posts and of course found many going back to 2014.
All fully supportive of Independence and no anti English attitudes to be seen. He is a genuine Winger and for a while.
So the only conclusion is they are totally different people, Al-Stuart is the genuine article, a winger.
Al-Suart hahaha not so much more of a shit stirrer and the old Al is nothing like that and they are two different people. I have no doubt at all that is the case.
Second timestamp at circa 1:49
The end of the UK is nigh
Just to elaborate on the ‘Nick Boles’ motion not getting though and May’s ‘reasoning’ on this, this was mentioned up thread by Silverdarling, but worthwhile re emphasising:
‘An ally of Nick Boles tells he was so angry with Conservatives because Theresa May ordered a particularly aggressive whipping operation against his Common Market 2.0 proposal
PM’s objection to Nick Boles idea: familiar criticism that it would oblige UK to accept free movement. PM thinks the emergency brake allowed under his EEA proposal is meaningless bc it has never be invoked by current members and would involve EU retaliation if invoked. But…
…PM had another objection to Nick Boles idea which rang true even to some Remain Tories: it could threaten integrity of UK. PM feared that if UK stayed in single market through EFTA pillar of EEA that could increase support for Scottish independence.
….SNP would argue in an independence referendum: vote Yes to be fully in EU while maintaining full access to UK market because UK would be in single market….
….PM believes that at a stroke the Boles plan would have destroyed main pro-UK argument in a Scottish independence referendum: stay in UK as the only way to maintain full access to Scotland’s largest market in rest of UK’
https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1112846777147777025
——————————————-
And now we finally see what we have known all along, they will never accept a CU nor a SM compromise, this is all about Scotland and always have been, they need our resources to make deals, be utterly clear about this. They mean serious harm to our economy and culture and our whole way of life.
England is on its way to becoming toxic in Europe, if not indeed throughout the entire world.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/03/humbling-britain?
“We are reduced to this. A humiliated, supplicant British prime minister sitting alone in a Brussels side room for six hours while the rest of the European Union discusses our fate. A government no longer capable of governing. A country that has become a byword for chaos and dysfunction. A sundered “United Kingdom”. Hundreds of thousands of Britons seeking citizenship in other EU states. Industry howling in rage and frustration. MPs needing police protection. People stockpiling food and medicines. The public discourse poisoned. Families split. Friends riven. The military on standby in case of civil unrest.
This is not “taking back control”. This is not the proud, independent, liberated Britain that the Brexiteers promised. It is grotesque, calamitous, an epic act of self-harm brought about not by some war or disaster but by our own stupidity.”
CB B. I eat mince an tatties wie Scottish butter an ma English neighbour eats mashed spuds wie English butter. We are very diverse. Our Scottish tatties are better and so is our Kultyur. The wurkin class English are so different from us. The English smell differently and it is noticeable.
The country of England needs its own independence NOW
England needs its own independence referendum
England needs independence
Well, Well, Well,
Very interesting over on the Revs twitter.
Apparently May feels that to have let the Bowls amendment through would destroy the MAIN argument against Indy..
If true,we now know that they plan to focus on Scotland not getting access to England’s markets.
That they have accepted indyref2 is happening.
That they think they can hide that our access keeps their lights on.
While we already knew that argument would surface we didn’t know what kind of emphasis it would have.
Theresa May the women who doesn’t want to show her hand in a cabinet that leaks like a sieve.Wants a trade deal with the whole wide world except Scotland!!!!
@Cactus
They sure do my friend. Scotland fully supports and stands in solidarity with Independence for the English people. Go for it!
Exactly Thepnr… could ye imagine being a person in England with the opporchancity to become their own independent country of the international world!
England needs to become a normal independent country
England needs to become independent
K1 @ 1.09
Snap… Well…you beat me to it 🙂
I think you right.
There’s never going to be a custom union or single market because of Indy.
Our resources mean they can afford no deal and to impose hardships on the population is no great issue for them.
But to not to be able to afford no deal is not a position they will countenance!
It would certainly explain some of the choices May has made.
She had to do Brexit..
We would almost certainly want to end the UK Union.
We have the politicians who would end it on demand.
Also Corbins failure to bring her down as he too has to deliver Brexit!
Yes, I agree, they mean to destroy the possibility that we can end the Union and bind us to it,even to the extent of making their English citizens destitute with a hard Brexit.
Brian Doonthetoon says: at 12:56 am
“eh huvnae read such elucidation” since Her Majesty $h@t in the woods!, or since King Billy $h@t in the woods!, or since Donald Trump $h@t in the woods!, or since Mrs Thatcher and Mrs May, both $h@t in the woods! or since the Pope $h@t in the woods!
I wonder which group of devotees of each of the above named, none of whom merit being insulted or abused in this way, will be the first to complain about this kind of language – with or without a wink later. Or is it just another case of the Pope coming in for some special attention here in one of the world’s most anti-Catholic sectarian countries.
England England England
Whit ur wae gonnae dae wae ye like
Save yourselves while you can Wales
I want to repeat this. The recent poster that newly popped up with the username Al-Suart spouting anti English propaganda in order to encourage other posters to do the same is a troll.
There has been a poster on wings since 2015 with the name Al-Stuart who has never had an anti English word to spout ever.
Of this I am 100% certain, Al-Suart is a troll masquerading as a genuine poster in order to stir things up with people that read Wings to encourage them to be as anti English as possible.
He’s on to plums here, and they all are that try because their purpose is so obvious that makes it so easy to ignore.
Weak and Wobbly.
Auld skool
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6
New skool
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/no-deal-19
X days remaining to Go Wingers
Agreed Liz, and that is why May and the establishment have run down the clock for over 2 and a half years trying to get the ‘no-deal’ through, gotta give credit where it is due, she said ‘no-deal’ is better than a ‘bad-deal’.
We can now all understand fully that ‘bad-deal’ means any deal that leaves open the possibility that Scotland leaves the union. That is why they never once even looked at our Scotgov’s compromise and have excluded them from every stage of negotiations and why they will freeze them out of any trade negotiations too.
It is also why the are repatriating devolved powers. We are fucked if we don’t get out, it’s that stark and that reality is upon us any day now.
Mad Unionist
Would you allow your neighbour to control your life? I’m not sure you are getting the significance of Westminster’s shambolic authoritarianism. Brexit has major implications for Scotland’s pubic health and social cohesion, yet most of us voted against it. Then there are generations of unborn Scots to consider. You do support democracy, the rule of law and universal human rights, don’t you?
Silverdarling beat us baith tae it Liz 😉
Ah jist unpacked the tweet oan here.
May is also admitting to Boles that they ‘expect’ another Scottish referendum else why the fear that their Pro UK argument would be threatened?
Ergo…
It’s comin fur aw that.
https://theferret.scot/alexander-burnett-banchory-business-centre/
Scotland’s richest MSP’s firm pockets £185,000 in business grant ‘shambles’.
Reinforcing the public perception of politicians as taking any and every opportunity to dip into the Public Purse and take a big handful of taxpayers cash, even though already comfortably well off.
Here’s a wee quick off topic for ye, kindly persevere with me Ken
Received ah mail shot frae the conservative party recently
And there ye have it
K1 @ 1.49
Oh…well..Well done Silver Darling… 🙂
At least we’re all in the same page and paying attention despite the distractions.
Thank goodness Thepnr is on the ball 🙂
It is indeed getting right down to it now!!! Sometimes I walk round the shop’s and I’m gobsmacked at how oblivious to it all most people seem.
Here’s hoping they will switch on to it when the campaign starts like they did in 2014!!
Cactus @ 2.05
Oh dear Cactus…. them’s really hard questions,I’d really struggle tae answer…. LOL
Ye do believe me don’t ya?? 🙂
CB B. Are you suggesting we should stick a ballot paper up a pregnant wummins snatch with a manifesto attached and squeeze a pencil in. Get a grip man your desperation is without bounds.
Same here Liz, ah might as well gie it a shot though…
“Tell Paul and Jackson about your priorities for East Renfrewshire”
———-
“1) What one thing that is not currently available in East Ren would you like to see?”
A Whole Foods with independent Scottish customers
———-
“2) Nicola Sturgeon wants to call another independence referendum in the ‘not too distant future’. What’s your view?
– No, I do not want another independence referendum
– Yes! I want another independence referendum”
Yes! I want another independence referendum
———-
“3) Who do you think would make the best First Minister?
– Ruth Davidson
– Nicola Sturgeon”
Nicola Sturgeon is still the best First Minister
———-
“4) Are there any other issues you would like to let Paul or Jackson know about?””
Aye! Where is the Love and Where is the Joy?! 😉
Mad Unionist
And your just tasteless and a bit ‘not right’, IMHO.
@Mad Unionist
“CB B. Are you suggesting we should stick a ballot paper up a pregnant wummins snatch with a manifesto attached and squeeze a pencil in. Get a grip man your desperation is without bounds.”
Of course CBB said no such thing. I’ve reported your post to the moderator of this blog. Your lies are poison.
Mad Unionist
Do yourself and everyone else a favour.
To Our Children’s Children’s Children:
The Problems of Intergenerational Ethics
https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1878&context=facpub
Thepnr
It was tasteless, ignorant and lacked respect for women, but I think that is all it was. I think he’s just getting frustrated because he can’t figure out how to trigger me. 🙂