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Wings Over Scotland

The long way home

Posted on March 30, 2019 by

Normally when I go back to Bath after spending time in Scotland, it’s with a mixture of sadness and happiness, because – usually after a delightful but exhausting round of racing around working and catching up with family and old pals – I’m returning to the place where I’ve made my life, where most of my friends and familiar comforts reside.

This time it feels different.

Because I don’t think I’ve ever been this scared for Scotland before.

Very much like Bath, Edinburgh is a city that feels European. Full of both tourists and folk from other countries who’ve come to live here, it has a cosmopolitan atmosphere where people from all nations, colours and creeds mingle and get along, in the way humanity has dreamed of ever since the cataclysmic wars of the 20th Century.

But because it’s in the United Kingdom, that’s about to end.

By openly-admitted design, the post-Brexit UK will be a “hostile environment” for anyone without a pure-bred British family line stretching back for generations. The notion that those from other lands or with different heritage will be welcomed warmly as “Jock Tamson’s bairns”, our own brothers and sisters in humanity, is already dead, not by Scotland’s choice but that of our much larger “partner” to the south.

England’s problem with immigration is a myth, in reality almost entirely an economic creation of right-wing UK governments – both Tory and Labour – who deliberately underbuilt houses to inflate prices and suppressed wages and then blamed foreigners for the resulting poverty and misery inflicted on anyone not fortunate enough to have been blessed with the bounty lavished on the “baby boomer” generation.

(Free education, council houses given away for pennies, adequately-funded public services financed by sustainable levels of taxation, liveable wages and all the rest.)

But Scotland’s situation is much worse. Far from having “too many immigrants”, we need lots more to support our ageing population. But the UK government is turning them away in their thousands to placate a minority of racist idiots in Middle England swing seats, and even forcing out those happily settled in Scotland for years and making valuable contributions both to the economy and their communities.

The dark foreboding fear of the ugly Britain of the imminent future is especially striking somewhere like Edinburgh, if less so in places like Bathgate (where I normally stay when I come home, unlike this week). But Brexit will wreak damage everywhere, in profound ways that people don’t yet have an inkling of.

Edinburgh itself has changed very noticeably in the last few years, something that’s perhaps much more easily apparent if you only see it once every year or two. Since the indyref campaign it’s become a lot more reminiscent of the Welsh capital Cardiff which I visited this month, itself just an amplification of the rest of Wales.

Every other shop in central Edinburgh is now a tartan-tourist-tat emporium hawking an ancient Harry Lauder stereotype of kilts and shortbread and Nessie and Jimmy hats and (more incongrously) red London buses and phone boxes.

I walked around for the whole of yesterday morning searching in vain for any kind of shop I even fancied a wee browse in. What used to be restricted to the Royal Mile and isolated outbreaks on Princes Street is now everywhere.

It smacks a lot of what you see in Wales, less in tacky souvenir shops (though those are still very much present) but in the defensively chippy prominence of the Welsh language – an overcompensatory assertion of difference and faux nationality to cover up the fact that neither country has the courage to actually be a nation.

To this observer, it seems in Edinburgh especially to be a clear reaction to the 2014 No vote, having – at least apparently – snowballed in the last five or six years. (The tartan-tat phenomenon is much less apparent in Yes-voting Glasgow, but that may be simply because Glasgow gets far fewer tourists.)

So as I type this on a train racing south past Newcastle, I feel a vague gnawing guilt at leaving Scotland behind to await a fate over which it voluntarily surrendered any agency or influence four and a half years ago. (“GIVE AWAY CONTROL!” might as well have been the No campaign’s slogan, an ironic mirror of Leave’s.)

Scottish politicians protesting the impact of Brexit on Scotland in the Commons are hooted at and jeered and actively shut out of all discussions and negotiations. Our destiny lies solely in the hands of those who appear to despise us – perhaps at least in part for our lack of bottle when it counted.

Nobody, after all, ever won respect through cowardice.

Meanwhile our country’s supposed champions within the UK government, its 13 Tory MPs, meekly acquiesce to whatever their Imperial masters tell them, lacking even the animal cunning and backbone of Northern Ireland’s DUP to extract a few financial concessions for Scotland in return for their compliance.

At least the “nobles” who sold Scotland out in 1707 had the wit to get paid for it.

But we are where we are, and 2014’s No voters will have to live with what they’ve brought down on Scotland’s head. I fear the next time I visit Edinburgh the once-proud “Athens Of The North” will have become even more of a cringing, shaming see-you-Jimmy theme park, a playground for the wealthy just like our vast and wasteful grouse moors – a tragic pastiche of a nation, an unbearable loss.

There’s still time to avoid it. But it’s running out fast. For everything we cherish about Scotland now, and for the outward-looking, international Scotland we dream of being in the future, it’s much, much later than we think.

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  1. 30 03 19 11:56

    The long way home | speymouth

  2. 30 03 19 18:33

    And then they came for Scotland – Angry Weegie

  3. 31 03 19 13:27

    The end of internationalism | My Little Underground

336 to “The long way home”

  1. montfleury says:

    Wonderful essay Stuart. Be well, be back soon.

  2. Andrew Davidson says:

    What a gut punch of a post… the clock is ticking and honestly, it feels like indyref2 needs to happen now and if the people of Scotland are stupid enough to say no again, they deserve what they get.

    Brexit has played out enough. It was right to try and fight the worst excesses of the right and try and mitigate the most insane ideas that spewed out of it but that ship has sailed now. No one could accuse Scotland or the SNP of not working in and with Westminster to come up with a better plan or way.

    The EU is meeting on the 10th before that 12th deadline and if it goes according to the Brexiteers’ plan, on the 13th the UK can just tear up devolution with no comeuppance from outside while it continues to tear itself up from the inside.

  3. William Habib Steele says:

    May and the Tories show utter contempt for Scotland and Scots. She is a dictator. Once Brexit takes place the English government of the UK is likely to act to disempower Scotland even more than they have done. The House of Lords have already had the first reading of the Act of Union Bill, intended to prevent Scottish independence. ( I think that after Brexit this bill will be quickly progressed.

    The Scottish MPs in Westminster need to withdraw and join with the Scottish Parliament in revoking the Treaty and the Act of Union. immediately appeal to the EU and the UN for support, and hold a confirmatory referendum. Then as an independent state negotiate with the Government of England Wales and Northern Ireland (not the UK because Scotland’s independence will end the UK) for a just partition of the assets of the old UK and what share, if any, we take of its debts. Former Ambassador Craig Murray tells of how this can be done legally under International Law.

  4. Old Pete says:

    Sadly if we don’t go for Independence very soon, then we might never ever get it. Don’t know how we will achieve it but we need to do it before the next Scottish parliament election or we might never get the chance again. So Nicola when ?

  5. Gavin Alexander says:

    I feel the same. Some No voters till stick their chin out and refuse to even listen, or say why they want to continue England’s social and economic rule over Scotland. Depressing.

  6. WG Saraband says:

    This is a beautiful text. I feel exactly the same about the sense of Europeaness in Edinburgh, and in the rest of Scotland to a larger extent. Maybe because I myself am a European citizen living in this country, I feel more attuned to that spirit. I dread to think what Brexit will do to it if we don’t unfetter ourselves quick enough and let England follow this downward spiral on its own, if it so wishes.

    In any case, I still hope that Brexit euthanises this Union once and for all:

  7. craig says:

    I do so hope that you are wrong but fuckin hell, that has got the tear ducts going, I’m like you, I’m scared for Scotland’s future, I’m scared for my nephews and niece’s future, 2 of them are not even in school yet and already their future looks bleak unless they get good qualifications and able to get a good job.

    My sister and her fiance are now considering a future in Canada, this is almost like the forced exodus of Scots leaving the nation again, it happened in the 80’s as well, all my aunt’s & Uncles left Scotland to get a job, one went as far as South Africa.

    I do hope that we do break those chains from Westminster rule but……….

  8. J Keltie says:

    “At least the “nobles” who sold Scotland out in 1707 had the wit to get paid for it.”

    Tru dat! Now we have a bunch of house jocks looking down on and screwing over the rest of us field jocks.

    I suspect if a general election is held soon, the British nationalists MP numbers will drop but as 2015 showed 56 SNP MPs made no odds and neither will an increase on the current 35.

  9. Bob Mack says:

    I found that article rather wistful and moving Stu. You bring to mind the old maxim “To see ourselves as others see us”, by our great bard.

    You are right of course. We are slowly and inexorably being engulfed by a neighbour State ,now more intent than ever in destroying our identity, just as Wade tried after the 45.

    They thought we were in a box and now they know that the spirit of our forefathers still resides within us. It resides within everyone who makes their home here and works and raises a family.

    Scots went to Europe to live and trade for generations. The Auld Alliance is proof of this. Scots are still regarded with fondness every country I have visited or worked in.

    I am not a blood and soil Nationalist, but rather one who has a vision just like you, of a country welcoming to all regardless of origin. They are Scots regardless.

    I think the next referendum will be our last and only chance to fulfill our vision for Scotland. I want Unionists to understand that they will become serfs rather than equals in a vassal state in perpetuity.

    We must do this. Vote for freedom. God knows we might make a mess of it, but we will do it as free men and women, blaming no one but ourselves.

    Thank you Stu. I literally have a tear in my eye writing this.

    You have touched my very soul this morning.

  10. Calum McKay says:

    I am not so gloomy, the uk will do our work for us.

    Scotland faced with chaotic right wing rule from England far more obvious than has ever been, the people of Scotland will make the right choice.

    It could be quicker if labour in Scotland viewed right wing rule by English tories as less desireable than left of centre rule by Scots over Scots, a future that labour in Scotland could shape and be part of.

    My main concern remains that brexit happens, Johnson of Gove take over and the Scottish Parliament”s powers are returned to westminster whilst austerity rumbles on……..

  11. robertknight says:

    As every day goes by I have an increasing sense of foreboding that, unless the Scottish Government has a constitutional rabbit poised to be extracted from the hat, we’re witnessing something akin to what in 1707 the Earl of Seafield described as ane end tae an(ither) auld sang.

  12. galamcennalath says:

    I hope Nicola and her decision making inner circle read this article, because you speak for a great many of us. I still have faith that they will deliver Scotland from the existential threats we face. But jeez, they really do have to make a move soon.

  13. Derick fae Yell says:

    It will never be ‘too late’

    Wasn’t too late in 1707
    wasn’t too late after the military defeats of 1715 or 1746
    Nor after the agent provocateur inspired ‘rising’ of 1820
    Not too late after the Clearances, both Lowland and Highland, desperate blow though that was
    Not too late when the Home Rule Bill of 1913 was passed but never implemented
    Not too late after the hideous losses of 1914-1918
    Not too late after the National Covenant Petition was rejected in 1948
    Nor when the Yes vote in 1979 was ignored by sleight of hand
    Not too late when Scottish industry was destroyed during the 80s
    Not too late when the Scottish Parliament that 74% voted for was sabotaged and hamstrung in 1998
    Definitely not too late when we almost won in 2014!

    It’s not too late now, and we go when we can win, not before

    When I turned on to Independence in the 80s, Support was 14% Fourteen percent. There was no Scottish Parliament and little hope of getting one.

    Independence support is maybe 48% now, with Brexit (if it happens) likely to push us over 50%. It’ll go over 50% in about 3 years, irrespective of other factors.

    It would only be too late when Scotland ceases to be a nation. Given that has not happened in 312 years, it isn’t happening

    That said: when they are done with the immigrants, they will come for the Scots. Best were are not in the UK before that, and are prepared for any eventuality

  14. Michael Laing says:

    I’m 100% with you on this, Stuart. Mind you, I usually am!

    I’ve lived in a street just off the Royal Mile for the past fifteen years, and, particularly over the past five years or so, it’s been apparent that almost every shop that closes is immediately occupied by yet another of these tartan garbage emporiums, blasting their horrible pseudo-bagpipe music into the street. Can there really be a market for all that rubbish? I don’t know if it’s really a symptom of the Scottish cringe or if it’s just determined money-makers exploiting the decline of high street shopping, but I certainly don’t feel it represents genuine Scottishness or benefits the people who live in Edinburgh. What use are multitudes of ‘Nessie’ trinkets and pictures of kilt-wearers revealing their posteriors to local residents?

    I’m absolutely disgusted at the way Scotland’s reputation as a country welcoming, tolerant and friendly to all peoples is being trashed, too. It’s sickening. Our independence cannot come soon enough.

  15. Derick fae Yell says:


    well worth a read, and all profits go to First Base foodbank

  16. shiregirl says:

    I’m a Leither born and bred. I moved up north a few years ago and no longer recognise Edinburgh. I did some of my training in Armadale/Bathgate in the early/mid 90’s and often wonder how much it has changed.

    Nice insight to a bizarre situation.

  17. Brian Powell says:

    Very much what I was thinking the other day. I want to live in a country I can respect but there is something massively cringey about many Scots.

    Edinburgh, the most No city does trade on the Scottishness it doesn’t want. The pride in Edinburgh Festival depends on the world and the performers are in future going to have a hard time getting here. The hassle simply won’t be worth it.

    The booming visitor trade, created by Scottish ‘history’ films, again reflects a Scotland ProudScotButs despise.

    Scottish independence is hated by Tories, Labour and the unions because it won’t let them put Scots in the appropriate boxes.

    They hate it because we wouldn’t be fighting their political wars. We could choose a different future that doesn’t stick us in endless conflict, fighting small skirmishes for small changes.

  18. John B says:

    Yes, it’s late in the day and certainly no time for contemplating our navels. Amongst many existing unionist No voters there is probably a lingering belief that it’ll be alright on the night and grim reality won’t dawn for many of them until the full horror plays out but by then it’ll be too late. Although much preparatory work has been already been done by the Pro-Indy groups, there’s still a massive job ahead converting those who still remain unconvinced.
    Like many of us, Nicola will be champing at the bit for the off but the decision to fire the starting gun is one where the timing has got to be spot-on. I’m confident she’ll get it right.

  19. manandboy says:

    Scotland was better while you were here, Stu. Haste ye back.

  20. misteralz says:

    You’ve captured perfectly how I felt on the morning of the 19th of September, and again on the morning of the 24th of June. We escaped to the Netherlands, and I can’t ever see us returning now. But that doesn’t stop me being scared for Scotland.

  21. Breeks says:

    I feel we Scots are like sheep in a field.

    If the sheep put their heads together, acted as one and understood the concept of strength in numbers, the sheep could charge the fence, knock down the dyke or jump it, or even buckle the gate by sheer weight of mutton, wool and initiative and be free to wander at will as nature intended.

    But they don’t. They have been conditioned to understand they are trapped because a farmer shut the gate. The farmer provides adequate food, adequate water. Everything they could need, except freedom… yet it never dawns on them why the farmer does that, and over time they have allowed the need for food and adequate water to become a chronic dependency.

    We voted no in a referendum. I mean let’s not dwell on the fact they cheated, they lied, they indoctrinated us, they manipulated the agenda, they stole, they steal, they conned us. But no, let’s focus upon ourselves because all the shite worked and we voted No. They closed the gate on us, and we all said “oh well, that’s that then”, and went back about our business in our comfy wee field.

    Scotland! The place where you can find the highest quality domesticated produce in the word. Scotch Beef, Scotch Lamb, Scotch voters…

    Charge the fkn gate Scotland. Break it. Prove we’re not sheep, or prove that we are.

  22. manandboy says:

    Building the Brexit picture:-


    “Coming from Northern Ireland, so much of Britain seems broken, on the edge. My commute to work is twice as expensive and the trains are at least twice as unreliable. Some of the trains are so old they resemble buses. Library services in Northumberland have been devastated. Councils are declaring bankruptcy and the NHS is in crisis. It doesn’t seem to me like a country that can withstand Brexit, no matter how ardently roughly half of its citizens may desire it, and yet over the cliff we go. It’s a terrifying prospect, made more terrifying by the staggering ineptitude of our politicians and the chaos reigning in parliament. Go it alone? Right now, Britain doesn’t seem like a country that could fight its way out of a paper bag.”

  23. Stoops says:

    That put a lump in my throat.

    What graphic novel is that clip from?

  24. defo says:

    Moved out of town to escape a city which has been wholly given over to the needs of the Uni’s, the (welcome) tourists, and as ever, the unco guid.

    I remember a town where you’d struggle to get a pint after !0pm of a Sunday night.
    It could be quite grim too.

    Maybe this is what inevitably happens when most of our institutions are run and staffed by colonists.

  25. Giving Goose says:

    Be positive. The high street is failing. Next door is a charity shop. Same in England.
    Remember that there is a common sense demographic in England that will act as a brake on excess. What we are winessing in England is a cornered elite trying to keep it’s position and privilege intact, hamstrung by FTTP and archaic process. Let it play out.

  26. Capella says:

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot,and never brought to mind?
    Should auld acquaintance be forgot and auld lang syne?

    And surely ye’ll be your pint-stowp! and surely I’ll be mine!
    And we’ll tak a cup o’ kindness yet for auld lang syne.

    We twa hae run about the braes, and pu’d the gowans fine;
    But we’ve wander’d mony a weary foot sin auld lang syne.

    We twa hae paidl’d i’ the burn, frae morning sun till dine;
    But seas between us braid hae roar’d sin auld lang syne.

    And there’s a hand, my trusty fiere! and gie’s a hand o’ thine!

    For auld lang syne, my jo, for auld lang syne, we’ll tak a cup o’ kindness yet, for auld lang syne.

  27. manandboy says:

    Scotland’s Independence looks more and more like a tourist stranded at a foreign airport because of a strike by airline cabin crew.

    Brexit is about the Tory Party & the English Establishment. It’s not about Scotland. But we still have to pay for it.

    Vote only SNP. Vote Yes for Independence.

  28. Brian Powell says:

    I do feel that Scottish Government/SNP post 2014 to 2015 was like a partner in a bridge game who misread the signals.

    2014 a huge uprising of membership in the SNP was a signal, look partner, I have all these winning cards, 2015 electing 56MPs, look partner I really do have a handful of winning cards, support me, but they passed.

  29. Conan the Librarian says:

    @ Stoops

    V for Vendetta

  30. Joe says:


  31. Zen Broon says:

    Tacky? I take it you’ve never been to Dublin, a lovely city that actually had a real blood-on-the-streets uprising, but for as long as I can remember has has been submerged in tourist tat every bit as bad as Edinburgh.

  32. Perhaps we should raise an army of resistance.
    Passive resistance.
    I have no doubt at all that England will leave Europe, indeed, Europe are on the point of kicking England, and poor Wales, out.
    Edinburgh has always had that ‘MacDisneyworld’ element to it.
    I’ve not been through in a decade or so, but remember the Tartan Tourist Traps and Greyfriars Bobby/Burke and Hare tat from as far back as the seventies.
    The ‘Military’ Tattoo has always got on my nerves; England’s Imperial Military Might on show in the heart of the Scottish Capital every summer…
    I attended once, refused to stand for GSTQ at the end, and left feeling much like Indians must have felt when the British Lord High Commissioner laid on shows of strength to frighten the natives in Victoria’s Jewel In The Crown.
    We are on the edge of reason now.
    Remember the Red Arrows flypast at the opening of the Glasgow /BBC Commonwealth Games?
    I am a European Scot, not a ‘British’ vassal serf in England’s colony.
    WE must act now, not is some future dim and distant unspecified date as part of the corrupt Election system manipulated by our English Colonisers.
    There will be blood.

  33. manandboy says:

    Without independence, Scotland’s future will be next door to the Neighbours from Hell, whose principal skills are thieving and dumping.

  34. Chris Foster says:

    Breeks at 10:47 says:
    I feel we Scots are like sheep in a field …

    Very well said, Breeks.

  35. TheBuchanLoony says:

    Dinna fash yersel Stuartie…Edinburgh has never been and never will be Scotland! It’s the final countdown…Macron and others do not want a whole load of Farages being voted in in elections in May to a future EU parliament so we’re out on the twelvth and that’s the end of the Treaty of Union!

  36. johnj says:

    Bloody hell Stuart, are things not bad enough without you making me suicidal?

  37. Legerwood says:

    “”…the once-proud “Athens of the North” will have become even more of a cringing, shaming see-you-Jimmy theme park, a playground for the wealthy…””

    Do the wealthy like to like to hang out in a see-you-Jimmy theme park? Who knew?

    What a cliche of an article.

    Yes there are shops selling tartan tat in the Royal Mile but there are just as many, if not more, selling high quality, crafted Scottish goods and showcasing the best that Scotland has to offer.

    People really need to get out more if they think this is in any way a true reflection of Edinburgh.

  38. Morgatron says:

    Stuart, a fine, moving piece.

  39. Ghillie says:

    It was nice to know you were near by for a while Rev Stu and am so glad that you were eventually having a good time with friends =)

    (For next time, Gy Chinese Carry Out, on Rosneath Street, Marchmont is excellent)

    The ‘tat’ shops (which I loved as a child) filled the void as the waves of recessions hit small businesses in the centre of town and many individualistic craft shops (and the Robot Shop on St Mary’s Street) and so many Scottish jewelers, book shops and proper sweetty shops! gave up the ghost. Just recently, even Coda music shop at the top of the Mound retired.

    Yet there ARE still amazing shops like The Scottish Craft Shop down the High Street, the antique map shops, the Lighthouse Bookshop, Mr Thingy’s fossils Shop, That Hat Shop, That Lovely Woolly Shop in the Grassmarket and the other one on the corner of St Mary’s Street, the Fudge shop, and the shop in our Parliament is pretty decent. There are loads of great of wee shops if you know where to look. Certainly, it takes a bit more searching than it used to…

    Thing is, I fully expect there to be a blossoming of creativity and enterprise in our Independent Scotland. (and the cheap and cheerful touristy shops will have their place too!)

    But your serious note Rev Stu. Your recognition of Edinburgh as an International City, what could become of it and fears for Scotland’s future…

    You know there are some things for which we will not stand.

    It is over. Scotland (the Scotland that up till now had not committed itself to Scotland’s Independence) has now been shown what we do not want to be a part of…

    Even Morningside is beginning to see Independence as the only way to remain within the European Union, whatever the previous voting inclination (and this was always going to be the hardest nut to crack!)

    I know things are dicey but I really do believe that we are getting there.

  40. mikewr says:

    My biggest fear, I’m sure many other people share it to, is that very quickly, post brexit, The Scottish Parliament will be suspended until things ‘settle down’.

    No platform to organise a referendum and a country stripped of all powers.
    I have yet to hear or see any mention of this possibility from the SNP leadership.
    I think it will land like a sucker punch and we’ll be left with a lot of hand wringing abut its “no fair” and lots of angry tweets from the SNP leadership and little else.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  41. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Good one Stu.

    What angers me is the stupidity of our fellow Scots, too lazy or too bigoted to learn.

    Ignorance is a choice. There can be no excuse.

    I have advised my children, who are fortunate enough to be qualified in areas which make them employable in most countries, to make plans to leave Scotland should we be unsuccessful in obtaining independence in the near future.

    I am too old to emigrate and I will be sad to see the kids leave but there appears little choice.

    I am sorry for young folk who do not have the education or skills to leave the future for them in an English run Scotland is bleak.

  42. manandboy says:

    Read this twice, you might need to!

    Nigel Dodds!! on the BBC:
    “We will look at any option. At the end of the day why should we believe that it was right to vote Leave? When we were in the EU people were quite happy with that in N Ireland because we were there together with everybody else.”

  43. Bob Mack says:

    Michael Stewart hit the nail on the head yesterday when commenting on the pro Brexit March. What we witnessed was the English and British Nationalists making their move to make the UK an unwelcoming place for anybody but those of British stock.

    It was ugly and resentful, and more importantly what they want to make of Scotland. Flute bands playing archaic anti catholic music, hand in hand with xenophobic and far right politics.

    That is what they see as our ugly future. Not me.

    I will fight them all the way. That is not my Scotland. That is not decency or humanity. It is exceptionalism as it’s very worst, aided by politicians like Davidson, Thomson and the rest of the Tory clique in Scotland.

    I tell you all truly. I have saved many lives over the years and not once did I ask them their race religion or politics.
    I did not hesitate to help any fellow human in distress.

    That is my type of Scotland. The very minute we step back from confronting what we now see as normal on our streets we are in real trouble.

    Racism and intolerance is on the rise in the UK, and we must be rid of it. England public opinion has spoken, but not for me. It has given its weight to exclusion and a false dream of an Anglo Saxon UK, which only permits foreigners as required to serve them and their needs.

    We have ‘something worthy to fight for. The betterment of humanity, and acceptance of differences.

    Let’s do this. If ever I needed reminding of where we stand then this article today has done just that. I will fight.

  44. ROBBO says:

    While agreeing with most of what you said it is my contention that for a huge element of NO voters they want Scotland to be properly colonised by England. This has accelerated in the post WW2 period as Scotland has everything England needs, green space, farmland, forestry, fishing, water, renewable energy and our old friends OIl & Gas. I believe it has always been the intention to impoverish Scotland particularly since the SNP took control has given it extra impetus. By slowly turning the screw they hope to put the blame at the door of the nationalists and Brexit is giving them the ideal opportunity. Job done.

  45. Hamish100 says:

    MAN AND BOY — THANKS for the Irish Times link.
    Interesting reading an Irish view of “Britain” and the “UK”.

    It is in fact anglocentric.

    It is about the North East (of England), London (England). In effect the article is a view of Englishness in in the world of a Brexit England.

    Sadly our Irish cousins did not comprehend or comment on this.

  46. frogesque says:

    There is a German word, Weltschmerz, a world sadness.

    I feel your pain and share it. Please come home soon.

  47. Capella says:

    @ Manandboy – what Nigel Dodds has correctly noticed is that leaving the EU will precipitate Scottish Independence and the end of the Union, which is the only thing they care about.

  48. Dr Jim says:

    The fate of all popular destinations for visitors has been inflicted on Edinburgh like all these destinations and become unrepresentative of the country or culture they’re in

    Benidorms without the sun sea and sand where the once local people become the traders and marketers selling the Scotland that doesn’t exist in reality to feed the imaginings of the tourist who believes the tat they’re buying is a reflection of the tour guide or the tourist bureau’s descriptions when they bought their ticket to come

    Tourists however don’t really want to buy reality because they for the most part couldn’t afford the distances they’d have to travel to afford it so they hope to experience the spark of what they thought they believed they saw in a documentary or read in a book all within a mile or two, and the tat they buy is only a reminder of that, they know it’s not real, I guess what really hurts is that we wish they could experience the reality and the visitor experience would be much better and more enhanced by that

    Scotland’s people are the biggest selling point in our tourism, buildings castles Tartan and cobbled streets are all fine and good for the image but the welcome of the people is by far the most important thing we have and if we can maintain the enthusiasm heart soul and pride of the country we live in Scotland we’ll be a fine destination for any tourist to experience

    There’s maybe one thing more I’d say to all restaurants and hoteliers, don’t fall down the well of the *full English breakfast* stupidity like the Spanish Costas it’s embarrassingly horrible touting for business in that way, you only need to advertise *breakfast* people generally know what food is, you only need to have it on the menu not on some big A board on the pavement so people can come in and not talk to you as they’re pointing to a badly photgraphed picture of unappetising faded food outside then ask if you have English tea because they didn’t know that tea doesn’t actually come from England and no matter what tea it is it tastes better in Scotland because our water is better than mostly anywhere in the world,

    Sell the water not the bloody tea

  49. Alex says:

    Emotive piece, Stuart.

    And agreed; Edinburgh is fast approaching overload with these gacky tourist shops. I was there a few weeks ago and noticed the glut of them. Edinburgh, like Scotland, deserves so much better.

    And that bring some me to your central tenet – that of the current atrocious predicament Scotland finds itself in. I am a normalist: it being normal for a country to rule its own affairs. English rule is an abnormality, and, if anyone was in any doubt about the ‘UK’ being a dictatorship, the last two years (never mind 312 of them) have shown us just what Grot (not sic) Britain is all about.

    The shameful antics of the Gammons in London yesterday is the rank icing on a shitty ‘UK’ cake. We need to get out.

    But England won’t allow that. It was always afraid of attack from what it – obviously – regards as its exposed northern flank.

    And that makes it extremely unlikely that the English state will accept ANY expression of independence for Scotland. Relations with England will, in my view, get even more hostile.

    And then what for Scotland? As you allude, we do a roaring trade in sheep and… oops, almost mentioned the ‘t’ word there. We all know what I mean. Those who actively work against their country’s best interests.

    The time is coming when we must make a stand.

  50. Ian McCubbin says:

    Lovely reflection Stuart, if not a wee bit pessimistic.
    We in Yes campaign are fired ready to wk the walk talk the talk and take us to Independence.
    Don’t get me wrong I am under no delusions it will be easy.

  51. Valerie says:

    Rev, what a fine piece of writing. Upsetting and melancholy. Even though I trust, and kind of understand SNP strategy, I’ve really taken a bit of a step back, I can’t be angry and disgusted ALL day, it’s not healthy.

    @TheBuchanLoony 11.22

    Those are my thoughts too. I think the EU decision will be:

    take the deal;
    revoke A50;

    After all, from the 27 view, they have had to shift, compromise and prepare for No Deal. They have all lost trade to some degree. They have really important elections to fight against Populist parties.

    Do they want to risk a long extension, knowing May is already toast, and KNOWING, as we do, what will take her place?

    They are mostly sensible and rational people, and the only pressure will be from Varadkar for a long extension, and I think they will say, sorry, it’s coming, so let’s rip the plaster.

    I will be staggered if they conclude otherwise.

  52. Dr Jim says:

    @Capella 12:02pm

    Who would have thought it eh Nigel Dodds and the DUP are running the Tory party in Scotland as well now

    What power a party who doesn’t even represent the wishes of people of where they live (NI) have that they can hold England Scotland and Wales to ransom

  53. Effijy says:

    Rev, you are one of Scotland’s most valuable asserts.

    I actually fear for what life would be like without your enduring
    Quest to right the wrongs of the corrupt few that make the UK
    a waste land without truth, justice or morality.

    Reading a pensioner’s daily Hail, bought for their
    Weekend supplement, Frau Emma Howling extols the virtues
    Of shining Scottish Tory Star Annie Wells, such a hard worker.?
    Well it seems her fascist sister lives in fear because of threats?

    Wonder if a Bookie would give me odds on our SNP First Minister
    Having 100 plus threats for every 1 Annie Boakly or Calamity Jun gets?

    Howling then suggests that SNP are stone deaf and clogging a dead horse with Independance ?

    Mmnn Her Right wing Tory pals don’t seem to hear the 3 Times No of Westminster,
    They don’t hear the Million people protesting against Brexit in London, and have already
    Rejected the 6 MILLION people who signed the Revoke Article 50 petition.
    They won’t even head it if it has 10 million signatures because the UK is run by Tories for Tories.

    Howling has also turned deaf on hearing the massive support for Independance on No Deal Brexit
    But then again she nor the Hail do truth as it gets in the way of propaganda.

    I’m certain that most Scots wouldn’t touch Welks or Howling with a barge pole so that are physically safe. Mentally not so safe!

  54. SilverDarling says:

    A lot of my family have worked and lived in Edinburgh. It is a beautiful vibrant city that now seems hostage to its precarious reliance on the financial and tourist sector. From having quiet confidence in itself it is now at the mercy of those who would use it for their own end. The Fringe, the Winter festivals, Air BnB – all seem to be ripping the heart and soul out of Edinburgh now.

    I agree the ubiquitous Union Flag is everywhere for – a not so subtle stamp of UK authority, ‘Brand GB’ for the unwary tourist or visitor. It used to be that Edinburgh tat always had its own identity, now it is generic UK tat.

    One relative said it was the best place in the world to stay as a student but immediately you graduate it becomes a foreign country, out of the reach of most who want to stay there. Despite that many of my family have settled there but they agree that the confident European cosmopolitan feel is diminishing.

    Edinburgh has always been a comfortable outpost for the London exile transferred against their will. They have made it home from home and in doing so have increasingly removed what was good about it in the first place. With the massive investment in the new Scottish Office, the colonialism is increasing in pace.

    We really really need to get out of the UK.

  55. Albaman says:

    It’s good, that with your keen eye Stew,
    That you put into prospective what changes you feel have come about since 2014.
    We,who are here all the time,need an “outside” view, if only to make us more aware of the changes,if change are indeed needed.

  56. Undeadshuan says:

    I think England, if its a no deal as looks likely, will struggle to contain protests and unlike 1970s belfast, live rounds would make the uk a pariah state where even Trumps USA would empose sanctions should they be daft enough.
    Canada and leading USA democrats have alrady said no trade deals for UK if a hard border in NI.

    What is more likely is that the UK will cease to exist, just like the USSR fell apart aftervthe fall of the berlin wall.
    They will struggle to contain people protesting at the lack of unicorns they were promissed.

    EU journalists already say Brexitis biggest event since fill of Berlin Wall, it will end with the end of the UK.

  57. Clapper57 says:

    Rev, a wonderful and heartfelt piece. Quality yet again.

    My opinion is :

    Many people who comment on this site have noted the influx of ‘Great British’ titled programmes that have and still are infesting the medium of television.

    Not once did I ever note pre 2014 this phenomenon of obvious contrived collective identity being pulped into our living rooms to infiltrate our psyche to convert and reinforce an imaginary concocted sense of ‘British’ identity being force fed into the minds of the weak minded.

    So Brexit is easy to understand when we have a media that has obliged in promoting a false narrative to unite a disunited populace.

    This deliberate and calculating eroding of any individual sense of identity one has with one’s own nationality….Scottish ?….no…no it is ordained that one must identify as British first and foremost.

    Since when was it seen as wrong to want to be identified as just Scottish ?

    Nationalist ?…..No ….that is wrong if you identity as the wrong kind of nationalist…then you are identified as a separatist….and one where you are categorised as seeking to subvert and separate all that is being done to promote a (British) national exercise….a project not to Unify us but to condition us into identifying as one people …..i.e. British.

    I have no problem with English people who seek to promote their English identity as being distinct from mine as a Scot but I do have a problem when I am asked to diminish any sense of my own nationality… if to identity as Scottish not British is seen as subversive….however English identity over British is permissible and acceptable.

    John Redwood in HOC was allowed to ask ‘ Who speaks for the English?”… that wrong ? Well yes it is considering the majority within the HOC represent a majority of English constituencies AND those who dare to , as a minority, speak for Scottish constituencies are derided and identified as small minded for seeking a voice for their constituents who are Scottish. It is also wrong because as an Englishman, John Redwood, can publicly ask this and not be perceived or called out as a ‘separatist’ but as a proud nationalist. However he at least recognises and acknowledges this distinction ….God forbid an SNP MP should highlight the same sentiment for Scots within this unequal and pseudo British public forum.

    British identity is and always has been broken and does not, as a concept of identity, work. Now more than ever it is exposed as a sham and no amount of propaganda will resuscitate what is clearly now terminal.

    Brexit has exposed the division within each nation that has always existed but has been suppressed and diminished by those complicit within the media and politics to maintain the status quo and quell the rebellion that we now see being unleashed…not just in Scotland but very much in England.

    Now that England has spoken…….I think that now IS the time that Scots should also speak and be heard….because now is the time more than ever that we should seek to be free of the shackles of British nationalism once and forever.

    Indyref2…..oh yes.

  58. Ken500 says:

    Och man. C’mon Hoots any. No flipping likely. There are plenty Elections coming up. GE, EU elections/Ref, IndyRef to tell the halfwit unionists to get lost. Plenty of time from now to forever. With the demographics working in favour.

    Things are changing in Scotland for the best after Devolution. The only time the population has risen. Forth Crossing, AWPR, less fuel/energy and emissions, uni fees, nursery care, social care, borders railway, no bedroom tax, new affordable public rebated hiyses (6,000 a year). New Hospitals SHNS supported. Education funded better. Increased apprenticeships.

    Westminster Illegal wars, financial fraud, tax evasion and Tridrent have cost Scotland dear. The Oil revenues taken secretly and illegally by the Westminster criminals and liars.

    Everything to play for in the next few years. To get rid of the Westminster crooks and lying murdering criminals. Just vote SNPSNP. Vote for Independence. Get one other to vote as well. Everything will change in Scotland/EU/World for the better. Break the Westminster damaging dominance. Just vote.

  59. call me dave says:

    @Derik fae Yell
    @Bob Mack

    Cheered me up anyway.
    Getting near a conclusion and we need to win.

    Rev not having a good day, he forgot about the footie at Tynecastle and now some unwelcome fellow traveller sitting too close in the train carriage. 🙁

    Good Moaning Scotland had a wee cameo this morning from a reporter summarising the DUP Brexit stance, their policies and the NI stalemate in Stormont.

    Hope he’s got a secret address somewhere safe. 🙂

    We think we have problems with Labour and the Tories. Pfftt!

  60. galamcennalath says:

    A horrendous vision of England’s future …

    Folks say Brexit has caused such nastiness, I think it’s been built up over the last decade by sub-fascist newspapers before Brexit became a thing. The roots of an uncaring, me-me society derive further back from Thatcherism. Austerity is idealogical, purely to shrink the state. Ordinary people suffer and get angry. One thing is certain, it’s all being driven by a far right agenda.

  61. Ken500 says:

    Vote SNP/SNP in Edinburgh and Aberdeen etc. They will clean up the mess in the town centre. Spend the monies better. Build schools and spend monies in essential services. Instead of the total expensive grotesque monstrosities concrete mess in the Cities. Pedestrianised green spaces. Instead of concrete jungles. Wasting £Billions of public monies. Getting into unneccessary debt.

  62. Morag says:

    1989 is thirty years ago. I remember it like yesterday. All the countries in Eastern Europe we had thought were enslaved to the USSR in perpetuity started to break free. Places that were little more than names and dotted lines on maps within a single colour block appeared as their own identities.

    Hungary, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, they started it, and then it was like a domino array. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria, really I don’t remember it in as much detail as perhaps I should, but it all happened in such a rush. Estonians who were acquainted with the London branch of the SNP (the branch sometimes met in their cultural centre) said, with stars in their eyes, we never thought we’d get there before you did.

    For these past 30 years I have felt that Scotland’s independence would most probably happen as a result of some sort of political turmoil rather than straightforwardly from a purely negotiated process. And I felt that maybe that turmoil wasn’t going to be all that pleasant while it was going on.

    We’re getting the turmoil. It’s happening, whether we want it to or not. We can’t escape it. Can we seize the moment as the Eastern European countries did and come out the other side with a real future to build? Or will we just let it all slide? Again?

  63. Ken500 says:

    Glasgow can ban loyalists marching contaminating the City, ruining the local economy. Just as has been done in other Cities.

  64. Artyhetty says:

    Very good article, but a wee bit sad to read this. Scotland will be ruined when Brexit kicks in, and we are dragged out of the EU, and others I speak to think that too. It seems some are happy to see that happen.

    Hope Scotland isn’t taken back decades, because that is what Brexit will do, with bells on.

    The last ten or so years have seen big improvements in Scotland, after three hundred years of Britnat rule, it will take a few more years yet to repair the damage.

    It’s not done and dusted yet though, got to stay positive.

  65. Proud Cybernat says:

    UK shouldn’t be worried about a No-Deal Brexit, says Donald Trump as we’ll be front of the queue to have a ‘deal’ with the US.

    Get yourselves ready to say “farewell” to the NHS and “£uck sake!” to the cost of your new health insurance premiums.

  66. Bob Mack says:


    Not this time Morag Scots watching English protestors dragging Muslim effigies around the streets of London by a rope around the neck, all the while accompanied by flute bands playing anti catholic tunes will surely ask if this is the future of Scotland.

    Hateful,spiteful and ignorant.

    We have been asleep. We are trying to hang on whilst our heavier climbing partner has fallen of his bilet They will drag us down to that abyss from which they may never return.

    And for what? Dogma of hatred is what. The same dogma that enslaved the people of Germany. Blame ,scapegoating acrimony and jealousy. Blame that will end in death.

    Is that what we want for our future?

  67. Ken500 says:

    Scotland had to get Devolution, after voting for it. It was twenty years later. Another Tory failure. it was recognised Scotland had less democracy than the emerging Eastern European nations. Self determination and self governance as recognised by the ECHR and the UN. Otherwise Britain would have been thrown out of the EU and UN. The Westminster unionists did everything they could give Scotland as limited Devolution and powers as possible. They even mucked up the electoral system without a mandate to try to keep control. Lesley Evans. The civil service mucking oath.

    Russia administration enabled the countries go to self governance and self determination. 150Million people. Halved the USSR population. Russia now 150Million people. Glasnost. Perestroika

    The Westminster murdering, lying unionists are still clinging on to 5Million people in Scotland and the resources. The Westminster Tory lunatics want to start a war with Russia. Putin called Cameron out and supported Scottish Independence.

  68. Bobp says:

    And 675 sheeple still voted liebor in the clack’shire council by election.

  69. Ken500 says:

    Mad cow came from Alabama and cost £Billons ruining the farming ‘industry’. In the US ’roundup’ Monsanto £Millions claim payout for cancer diagnosis. Affecting German Bayer drug company take over by Monsanto.

  70. Ottomanboi says:

    Just like the Brexit thingy the quest for Scottish independence has been going on rather too long. It’s becoming more than a tad, repetitive and boring: certainly for those of my generation with the flexithumbs and 10sec attention span. And like Brexit it is in the hands of people who are supposed to be ‘the’ experts and we are loyally required to trust them, implicitly.
    In Scotland’s case if the politicians do screw up and the hutzpah to offer an alternative is lacking we may be heading for another century of national whinging and blaming everyone but ourselves.
    The authentic Scottish cultural identity, like all such, is a fragile thing but sadly, in the popular mind, the tartan tat available on Edinburgh’s tourist trails is that identity. Unionism in all its denatured glory.
    Putting up with the third rate is seemingly part of the DNA but please let us not go gently into further submission, but rage, rage, rage against the betrayal of our country.
    Start the Rage!

  71. Macart says:

    That needed saying.

    A thoughtful and thought provoking piece Rev.

  72. Hamish100 says:

    Listening to the greetin face Gisela Stuart (not Stewart) and fellow brexiters. What a shower. They ooze unhappiness, gripping bile in their bellies wanting an England that never existed.

    The hope of Independence is so different . A soft gentle light in an increasingly dark and troubling time.

  73. Morag says:

    Mad cow came from Alabama and cost £Billons ruining the farming ‘industry’.

    No it didn’t. Absolutely categorically not, it didn’t. And the Scottish farming industry has recovered, it is not ruined.

  74. Bob Mack says:

    @Ottoman oi,

    Amazing that only now am I beginning to see the parallels between England today and Germany. I have been too focused on indy for its own sake. Difficult to see the wood from the trees on occasion. We are part of a State which is now openly accepting on our streets the perpetrators of everything that happened in pre war Germany. Imagine that for a moment.

    Mosques having their windows smashed. Asian shopkeepers stabbed to death. Rises in Asian hate crimes. What are we becoming? Muslim effigies openly dragged behind protestors by a rope around their neck.

    This must not happen. It is too evil to contemplate with any sense of reality.

    SNP—-get us out of here.

  75. Muscleguy says:


    Not all sheep are stupid, back in NZ many folk have ‘lifestyle blocks’ a house a couple of fields to grow something, crops, sheep, pigs, goats. One of the department techs had one such and told how they penned their little sheep flock in one quarter of the field at a time to eke out the grass using an electric fence.

    Except some of the sheep had figured out the audible ticking of the fence benoted when the current ran (it is not continuous) and would time their runs at the fence in between the ticks, charging through for the grass on the other side without the muscle seizing shock.

    They were thinking of replacing the electric fence with a wooden portable one as a result.

    We don’t need the sheep to stop being sheep, just become smarter, more clued up sheep who realise the grass really can be greener.

    I’m not sure Independence will cure the tartan tat around the Royal Mile etc though. Such commercial imperatives operate regardless. I recall accompanying the youngest through some of them in Princes St last she was back, looking for presents for the folks back in NZ. Not that Dunedin is without having a Scottish Shop of its own for a lot of your tartanry needs.

    I partook when I was back for her wedding in the form of a kilt and kit to walk her down the aisle in and kept on for the Ceilidh. This being Southern NZ a Ceilidh band, in kilts was available for the purpose. Though the Scots had to correct the step instructions, for the Gay Gordons most especially.

  76. Morag says:

    I remember being on holiday in Ireland, about 20 years ago. County Kerry. (I didn’t go to Dublin although I’m going this year.) The “Celtic Tat” shops were worse than anything I every saw in Scotland, to a large extent because a shop filled with uniform emerald green tat looks worse than the same thing in tartan.

    I’m just back from South America. Stuffed llamas and panpipes and calendars and t-shirts. We’re not going to get rid of the tat even after independence.

  77. Jack Murphy says:

    A short clip to cheer up Stu and the Weekenders to Wings.
    It was doing the rounds yesterday and apologies if it’s already been posted.

    ‘Europe, let’s continue our love affair’

    There’s also an edition with French subtitles somewhere.

  78. jfngw says:

    Well that slightly depressed me on a Saturday.

    BBC Scotland, where truth goes to die. The two obvious bits of lies/misinformation this week.

    The SNP voted against a custom union they support. Even after being told it is CU & SM the reporter still tweets the lie.

    Story of 8K of military personnel receiving up to over £2000 (how many will receive over £2k and what income would they be on) in compensation when based in Scotland. Missing from report, 37K of military personnel in Scotland who will pay less tax but those elsewhere will not be compensated.

  79. louis.b.argyll says:

    Outstanding article.
    Keep up the good work.

  80. Mark Russell says:

    Tom, Dick & Harry rent an apartment in a block of flats, but in the last few years, Tom has become increasingly unhappy with their landlord and his ‘house rules’ and now ants to leave. He asks Dick and Harry to join him, but they don’t really want to leave and tell him so.

    Nonetheless, Tom notifies the landlord that they want to terminate the rental agreement – which has been signed by all three – and gives a month’s notice. Dick and Harry are really unhappy with this development and telephone the landlord the next morning. He informs the two tenants that they would be welcome to keep the lease going themselves – and he might be able to reduce the rent to help.

    That night, Dick & Harry confront Tom and tell him they don’t want to move – but he goes beserk and tells them they must and he won’t allow them to sign a new lease with the landlord unless they pay him ten grand each to pay off his overdraft so he can afford to move.

    What should Dick and Harry do?

  81. Jack Murphy says:

    Re my Post at 1:35pm.
    Here’s the French subtitle clip:

    ‘Chère Europe, vous comptez toujours autant pour nous’:


  82. CameronB Brodie says:

    The traditional ‘certainties’ of British politics can no longer be relied upon, as England’s capacity for multiculturalism appears to be broken. This poses a dire threat to the continued integrity of Scotland as a nation, not least because Scotland’s economy needs more immigration. However, Scotland has not been unaffected by the media’s sustained attack on British multiculturalism and the EU, so it’s not a simple case of us and them. Scotland also has a problem with Europhobia and racism but not as bad as England, which appears to be drowning in right-wing extremism.

    The results are in and the UK will #Brexit: What did social media tell us about the UK’s EU referendum?

    Examining patterns in the Twitter debate also tells us what topics those motivated to tweet are spontaneously associating with the debate on the EU referendum. We can also begin to break this down geographically, allowing us to examine how the different nations within the UK are tweeting about the EU referendum. Scotland, although strongly Remain in the final referendum vote, had a higher proportion of Leave voters than many anticipated.

    This Leave presence was visible in the Twitter sentiment for Scotland. Meanwhile, two of the top twenty hashtags used by those in Scotland motivated to tweet on the EU referendum were #indyref and #indyref2. As Nicola Sturgeon confirmed in her statement the next morning from Bute House, the option of a second independence referendum is now firmly on the table.

  83. HYUFD says:

    Undeadshaun In Canada the opposition Canadian Tories currently lead Trudeau’s Liberal government in the polls and Canadian Tory leader Andrew Scheer has backed Brexit and its restoration of sovereignty to the UK a Trade Deal with post Brexit UK with much more enthusiasm than Trudeau

    In the US Trump of course backed Brexit, unlike Hillary and Obama and last week Trump said ‘I like Boris a lot’ when asked about Boris Johnson and backed Boris as next UK PM. His spokesman today also reiterated the US wants to do a trade deal with the UK

    In Australia conservative PM Scott Morrison backs a trade deal with the UK and was concerned May’s Deal would not deliver it

    With the rise of Lega Nord in Italy, Le Pen in France, the AfD in Germany and Vox in Spain and after Bolsonaro’s election as Brazilian President and Modi’s in India rightwing populism is by no means just an English phenomenon but increasingly global.

    Plus with the rise of Corbyn, Sanders, Syriza, Podemos, Melenchon, Lopez Obrador’s election as President in Mexico etc the left is increasingly populist too

  84. Al-Suart says:

    Crikey Stuart,

    I understand why you have to make that point with such gravitas. You make it so well too.

    For the sake of all our sanity, here is a little gem.

    Many folk now betting That Scottish Independence WILL happen..

    Okay it is NOT scientific, but it is a wee bit curious.

    Stu., that last week must have drained your batteries to a horrendous degree. Maybe take a couple of days off chief.

  85. Bob Mack says:


    You don’t live in these coutries bud. You live here, right in our own backyard. Worry about that maybe.

  86. Ken500 says:

    Why are some folk complaining and leaving at all. Why not stop to help save it.

  87. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. British Europhobia and Brexit.


    How austerity took Britain to Brexit

    How Tabloids Were Able To Frame The Debate Over Brexit

    Brexit: What’s this fine mess you’ve gotten us into? (Apologies to Laurel and Hardy)

  88. Ken500 says:

    With some folk’s luck. The IndyRef will not be 2019.

    Lost bets on vote for YES. Bookies had it screwed up. Took any bets on YES last minute when they knew it was NO.

    Lost bets on over 50 SNP MP’s 2017 GE.

    Result awaiting for IndyRef 2019?

    Bookies fleecing the people added by the fraudulent Pollsters. Getting paid to get it wrong. Breaking electoral Law and non democratic.

  89. Ken500 says:

    Trump did not support Johnstone’s war on the Russian border. That dirty little coward. Told Johnstone to get lost. Criminal Johnstone would not last a month. Too many corrupt skeletons in the closet. Despite the make over and new haircut. Loser. Dope on a rope.

  90. jason arneil says:


    Normally you are bang on the money with rigorous fact led analysis. I’m afraid I’m not so sure you’ve quite done that here. And I say It’s rare for me to disagree with what you write.

    Two statements that are not necessarily a priori correct:

    I think your argument on “…Edinburgh being full of tourists and folk from other countries who’ve come to live here” ending after Brexit is not an axiomatic condition of Brexit. Are you really arguing tourists will be banned? Seems unlikely. Also Norway? Is that *hostile* to non-Norwegians? Being an EU member is not a requirement to be a decent country. As equally, not all EU countries are necessarily overtly welcoming to foreigners.

    The second point that stood out for me:

    “…adequately-funded public services financed by sustainable levels of taxation”

    The argument I’d make there is, to me, funding of government, doesn’t seem less than before:

    Perhaps, it’s just being spent on the wrong priorities, and I’m sure we can probably identify/agree on many. Something at Faslane, for example.

  91. Too many doom and gloom merchants in your comments section.
    Scotland does not any section 30 order. All it takes is for the sovereign people of Scotland to give permission for the Scottish Government to REPEAL the TREATY of UNION.
    We take independence first and then do any negotiating with the English Parliament, NOT BEFORE.
    The Treaty of the Union of Parliaments was signed between two EQUAL COUNTRIES, any one of which can cancel the treaty.

  92. HC says:

    “…t smacks a lot of what you see in Wales, less in tacky souvenir shops (though those are still very much present) but in the defensively chippy prominence of the Welsh language – an overcompensatory assertion of difference and faux nationality to cover up the fact that neither country has the courage to actually be a nation….”

    So none of you so called SNP supporters can see that 90% of Welsh speakers, and even nationalists like Leanne Wood, sees this as anything but an outrageous insult on our nation, our language, our identity. Consider this – if someone attributed the quote to Nigel Farrage, who would bat an eyelid ? . Considering that Welsh is actually the language of Wales, and English the language of conquest, how on earth can you justify decrying its “Chippy prominence”. Rev, your attitude to the Welsh and Gaelic languages is invariably nauseous and typical of your English home and friends. I’m astonished no other contributor has the guts to criticise you for it. The emporor has no clothes, perhaps ?

  93. Ken500 says:

    Simon Osbourne Express nonsense. Just another load of lies. Making it up. The stinking, lying Press making it up big time to cause more trouble. Starving people to death. Losing readers faster than a sieve loses water. Most of them should be in jail. Tax evading, lying, criminal, murdering Non Dom owners. Breaking the Law with impunity. Murdoch, sleeze ball. away with £30Billion for ruining the world. Blowing the world to bits, The MSM murdering, criminal liars. Thank goodness for the internet.

    Selling their souls to the devil. Never out of the Church The devil in disguise. Disney buyers. Cruella de Ville.

    Express – Desmond (prono paedo) sold up at a loss to Trinity Mirror losing money. Fat and lonely he made his money on porno. Sleeze ball.

  94. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ken500 at 12:40 pm.

    You machine gunned,
    “Och man. C’mon Hoots any. No flipping likely. There are plenty Elections coming up. GE, EU elections/Ref, IndyRef to tell the halfwit unionists to get lost. Plenty of time from now to forever. With the demographics working in favour.”

    I know there are local elections coming up in May and, possibly, a general election. Time will tell.

    However, at this stage in Scotland’s history, you are quite correct to suggest that we Scots should, even in council elections, vote SNP to express a strong anti-unionist sentiment.

    If the EU elections take place in the UK, the one thing I would suggest is that we need to get of Coburn. I have nothing against the Scottish Labour MPs and Martin seems to be shifting to a pro-independence stance onnyhoo.

    Hopefully, if there’s a GE, the SNP will have in their manifesto that a majority of pro-independence MPs returned from Scottish seats will give the SNP a mandate to declare and negotiate independence. As long as Scots know what they’re voting for, there would be no need for an independence referendum or any Section 30 agreement.

    Once everything has been negotiated, there could be a referendum to confirm EU membership. As long as the EU is “helpful” during the independence negotiations, popular confirmation of membership should be a given.

  95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    “Scottish Labour MPs” = Scottish Labour MEPs.


  96. Bob Mack says:


    Perhaps your right, but I believe Wales voted to leave the EU as well. They also doggedly return Labour candidates to Parliament and to their assembly in spite of the current mess they find themselves in under Labour governance.

    It is the expectation of feeling a party with an English based leadership will somehow make things at least palatable.

    Speak Welsh all you want to promote your culture but don’t think that stops anybody from putting an x in a box to be ruled by the basically English establishment.

    They neither care or worry about you apart from the power of your vote.

  97. Ken500 says:

    An S30 order can be made by the Courts, quite easily because of the lack of democracy in Scotland. The Terms of every legally binding agreement broken before the ink was dry. Westminster does not have a leg to stand, under International Law. Look at the utter shambles and mess. They could not cause more chaos. People are dying because of it.

    The lying Westminster unionist sychophants acting illegal. The Courts are over ruling them every time as they break the Law with impunity. They break the Laws that they make. Lying, greedy, incompetent, useless hypocrites. The Westminster unionists. What an embarrassment. What a shower. A world laughing stock.

  98. HC says:

    We do not speak Welsh to promote our culture. We speak Welsh, period.

  99. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think you’ve just described a particular state of “being” Welsh.

    Back to the roots! Methodological situationalism and the postmodern lesson for studying tribes, practices, and assemblages

    Cultural Roots of Values, Morals, and Religious Orientations in Adolescent Development


    Situating Psychological Well?Being: Exploring the Cultural Roots of Its Theory and Research

  100. Sarah says:

    Very much On topic.

    I have realised recently that every little thing I do to further the cause is a form of therapy. I feel I am doing something instead of just being a victim.

    So all those, including the Rev, who is feeling downhearted can sign the Westminster petition for England to have a referendum on leaving the UK.

    Currently standing at 11,269 so the Government has to respond. If it can reach over 100,000 [by Monday would be good!] it must be debated in the Commons. If only the attention of Brexiteers could be drawn to the petition it could take off – after all from the Rev’s polling we know that there is a high percentage in England willing to dump N Ireland and Scotland.

    So sign and share, please!

    This could be the best and quickest way to restore Scotland to normal nation status.

  101. Bob Mack says:

    Speak Welsh (20% of population), but vote English. Period.

  102. Clapper57 says:

    Dominic Grieve deselection campaign being led by someone who not only stood against him as Ukip candidate in GE 2017, was a UKIP local council candidate and local branch chairman of Ukip, but also stood for the UKIP National Executive Council in 2016… now a Conservative…..

    Billy Mitchell infamous BBC QT spokesman….failed UKIP candidate…ingratiating himself with Tory Lord Michael Forsyth on same QT programme……Ruth Davidson’s Tories in Scotland…embracing the REAL divisive fringe in Scottish society via welcoming Orange separatists who jump off the sinking UKIP ship…..and climb on board the Tory UKOK cruiser…home from home it would seem.

    See a pattern…..yes I know you all have noted this pattern already…but while our media fail to highlight this far right take over ……our fellow less enlightened Scots remain oblivious to the path that is being ventured down….

    @ Sarah @ 3.17pm

    I have already signed this…..we need the momentum from the English on this….hopefully twitter peeps will pass petition onto appropriate targets on Twitter …..let the ‘proud Scots but’ have their eyes open as to how little value they hold with their fellow ‘Brits’………..

  103. Sarah says:

    @Clapper57: the more the merrier with this petition for England’s referendum to leave the UK. Now at 11,291.

    As you say, folk on twitter [I’m not] will be able to spread it even further. Wings has plenty of “unique” [in more ways than one!] readers who can spread the word.

  104. CameronB Brodie says:

    This may appear off topic, but neo-liberalism is the root of the problem, IMHO, so here’s some Educational Theory on the implications of England’s utilitarian approach to education (see the history of New Right educational policy). The paradigm of Anglo-American neo-liberalism we currently live under, devalues culture and undermines the state’s capacity to resist social anomie. Britain’s economy had not responded well to globilisation but there is a lot more cutting-in-to-bone to follow. Obviously, this would appear an opportune time for Scotland to choose an alternative direction.

    Public Pedagogy and the Politics of Neo-liberalism:
    making the political more pedagogical


    Neo-liberalism has reached a new stage in the United States, buttressed largely by the almost seamless alliances formed among the Bush administration, religious fundamentalists, neo-conservative extremists, the dominant media, and corporate elites. This article explores the various ways in which neo-liberal cultural politics works as a form of public pedagogy to devalue the meaning of the social contract, education, and citizenship by defining higher education primarily as a financial investment and learning as a form of training for the workforce.

    Aggressively fostering its attack on the welfare state, unions, noncommodified public spheres, and any critical vestige of critical education, neo-liberal politics makes it increasingly more difficult to address the necessity of a political education in which active and critical political agents have to be formed, educated, and socialized into the world of politics.

    This article explores how the intersection of cultural studies and public pedagogy offers a challenge to both the ideology and practice of neo-liberalism as a form of cultural politics. In doing, so it outlines how the pedagogical can become more political in the classroom and how the political can become more pedagogical outside of the classroom via the educational force of the wider culture.

  105. galamcennalath says:

    Odd how there seems reticence to tell the truth and call things what they are.

    Yesterday Jon Snow passed the remark “I have never seen so many white people in one place, it’s an extraordinary story.”

    Channel 4 felt the need to apologise. “Jon has covered major events such as this over a long career and this was a spontaneous comment reflecting his observation that in a London demonstration of that size, ethnic minorities seemed to be significantly under-represented. We regret any offence caused by his comment.”

    Jon was spot on. Why shy away from truth?

    English nationalism is often ethnically based.
    The most fanatical Brexiteers are far right.
    There is a strong xenophobic element to Brexit.
    Recent immigrants in England avoid the label English.

    The undertones risk becoming much more if responsible people don’t call them out!

  106. twathater says:

    What a beautiful emotive piece of writing Stu, like many on here I read it through teary eyes , but it also depresses the shite out of me , where do we go from here , who has the answer .
    Are we so craven and cowardly that we constantly need the PERMISSION of our colonial masters to do ANYTHING

    Breeks has been constantly derided and reviled for asking why the SG are not pursuing the legal route via the international courts , are they ? , if not why not . Nicola and others are lawyers do they not have faith and trust in the law to understand the people’s sovereignty .

    I recognise the ( illegal ) indy 2014 vote but I also recognise the ( illegal ) 2016 EU vote , we are TOLD by our masters that we MUST accept the will of the 55% no vote , but THEY will not accept the will of the 62% who voted to remain in the EU

    We are either in a treaty of union with another Kingdom or we have been subsumed by that other Kingdom , there is no ambiguity , one way or another that has to be ratified , the easiest way would be through the ICJ why not do it NOW

  107. Black Joan says:

    The Old Town has been devastated by AirBnB & equivalent.

    Once it had a community — a large, resident population in Council-owned tenements. Shops & services existed to supply practical, everyday needs.

    The less privileged “poor” had the great pleasure & advantage of living at the heart of one of the world’s greatest cities. This obviously could not be allowed to continue, especially not in a Tory-inspired hostile environment where the “poor” must know their place (which is not occupying prime real estate).

    Right-to-buy saw modest Council flats purchased for peanuts & then sold & re-sold for astronomical prices because of the huge returns achievable through short-term letting. The few surviving permanent residents were oppressed by noise, partying & loss of neighbours & by now almost all have cashed in & moved away.

    The City Council bows to economic arguments, defers to university demands for yet more “student accommodation” (doubling as multi-storey tourist parks), grants permission to ruin the A-Listed Central Library (for example), selling Common Good Land, ignoring air pollution and wilfully allowing natural light to be stolen — & all for a Branson hotel.

    The goose that lays the golden eggs is suffocating under the weight of tourism but there’s perhaps a glimmer of hope that some sort of controls will be introduced.

    There’s now an Old Town Development Trust and talk of a tourist tax & actual regulation of short-term lets.

    The former Midlothian County Buildings was in danger of becoming a casino, but instead houses the French Consulate (Embassy, one day, one hopes) where there are language classes, films, a library — all in all a beacon of culture in an ocean of tartan tat & a symbol of the auld alliance.

    Further out, Bruntsfield has a thriving community greengrocer (Dig-In). Morningside and Stockbridge have interesting independent shops (despite the embarrassment of countless charity shops). Leith is resisting university-led developer destruction.

    So, a few grounds for optimism, but, obviously, Brexit & Britnationalism is on the verge of buggering everything.

    Dissolve The Union.

  108. Cactus says:

    Welcome back to Bath, how does the return-to feel?

    It’s a beautiful day hey hey here and the sun is shining in Glasgow (showing 11 degrees), howsabout all of you Edinburgh… how do feel about the glow and the status of your HOME city?

    But it is true, there is still time to avoid being in an ukUnion

    And NOW… welcome back to official Spring ’19 weekend

    Scotland springs forward to its own natural political evolution

    Hey TJenny, aye owe you a song babe 😉

  109. Breeks says:

    Brexit right now feels like one of those movies, a play, or one of those Poirrot or Miss Marple mysteries that’s set in the years immediately before 1914 or 1939, when the characters are usually loafing about in a big garden with a croquet mallet in one hand and gin and tonic in the other. Usually there are two young men of “soon-to-be-cannon-fodder” age, speculating whether the declining political situation will deteriorate to war. Of course we know that it will, and that it’s likely one or other of these young bucks will pay the ultimate price in Flanders, while the other will end up with the girl and the guilt… but they don’t know it yet.

    That’s the situation we’re in. It’s not war that’s all but inevitable, but the grim and bleak event on our horizon is Brexit.

    When the optimist says “we’ll leave on WTO terms and that’ll be fine”, it reads along similar lines as “It will all be over by Christmas!” … No it won’t. It might be ok for one or two rich folks three hundred miles from the front, but for the rest of us it’s going to be a knee deep shit-fest of untold misery and hardship. The knob on the crappiness meter turned back up to maximum shite for poor people.

    And the really stupid thing is, we’re off to war but there isn’t even an enemy to fight. The only lines of trenches at the Front are all ours, and we’ve dug up a perfectly good green field for absolutely nothing. The war maps show our positions, but not the enemy because there isn’t an enemy there. Just us. What a farce.

    Brexit. What a spectacular redefinition of the term “epic stupidity”. Instead of the War to End all Wars, we’ve got Brexit. The idiocy to end all idiocies; to raise the bar of pointless collective dumb-fuckery so high we might see some redemption if it serves as a functional platform to help launch the first manned flights to Mars.

    Come on Scotland. We don’t need this. Enough’s enough. Bring our MP’s home, turn off the oil at Berwick, and lets see if Jean Claude Juncker and Guy Verhofstadt are both at home for telephone calls on a Sunday.

  110. galamcennalath says:

    Rev Stu says …. ” folk from other countries who’ve come to live here, it has a cosmopolitan atmosphere where people from all nations”

    A plug for new Scots …

    Anyone wanting to show a wee bit of solidarity with our EU friends might want to try Pierogi Najlepsze w Miescie Polish restaurant in Edinburgh. They specialise in dumplings (pierogi). How about haggis Polish dumplings for a bit of cultural mixing 🙂

  111. Movy says:

    This article made me very sad but I remain hopeful. I truly believe we’re almost there.
    To cheer everyone up: has everyone signed the England leaving petition on the petitions UK site yet? The map, showing who’s voted where, is an absolute hoot. Scotland very keen for England to have a referendum on leaving the UK!
    Wouldn’t it be great if Parliament (Westminster) had to debate this?
    Get signing fellow wingers.

  112. defo says:

    Mark Russell
    Well Doh Mark!
    Obvs Dick & Harry kill Tom, and frame the landlord for it.

    Personally, I’d go with CO poisoning. Clean like. 😉

  113. Republicofscotland says:

    Very well put Stu, if not a bit depressing to know what our future holds, if we stay in this union.

    Only independence can save us.

  114. cirsium says:

    Rev – when I was last in Edinburgh, I felt like I was in an occupied country because there were so many Union flags hanging from public buildings.

    @mikewr, 11.29
    My biggest fear, I’m sure many other people share it to, is that very quickly, post brexit, The Scottish Parliament will be suspended until things ‘settle down’.


    I have been reading about the UK’s covert military actions
    Then I learn that the UK Army is planning three military operations right now- Operation Yellowhammer, Operation Brock and Operation Redfowl(?)- to deal with the fall out from a no-deal Brexit. So what happens with a call for a referendum from a suspended parliament? Are we going to find out why the Operation was called Yellowhammer?

    Nana may already have posted links to this article “The SNP must stop trying to save Britain and instead resolve to dissolve Britain”

    We need to take action soon. Dissolve the Union.

  115. CameronB Brodie says:

    Anything else you’d like to reveal about yourself? 😉

  116. Essexexile says:

    A difficult read Rev.
    When a city sells out on its heritage so completely that it exists only as a tacky version of what it used to be, it’s going to be hard to ever get it back.
    I do hope your black mood is only temporary. From the article it sounds horribly like you’ve lost heart.

  117. Colin Alexander says:

    Don’t worry Stu, (in her dreams), British Prime Minister Sturgeon and the SNP will save Britannia and Britain’s Scotland colony with their England’s People’s vote (#2).

  118. Bill Glen says:

    Your Comments remind me of What i often think of Edinburgh, But that could be the Glaswegian in me, i have always Saw it as a Tory town And separate from the Rest of The majority of Scot’s, More the “Jock Tamson’s bairns” You mention, Other than that hope The rest of your Visit was More Enjoyable, And next time yer in Bathgate, yer Alway’s Welcome to Pop along for a Cuppa 🙂

  119. CameronB Brodie says:

    Some Cultural Theory and some more Educational Theory and stuff, that suggest there are cultural paths to escape the neo-liberal hollowing-out of civil society. Edinburgh’s tartan-tat shops can be checked but sustainable economic development will be needed to re-balance the local economy. Somehow, I don’t see Brexit improving Edinburgh’s prospects in the global marketplace.

    Challenging Freedom
    Neoliberalism and the Erosion of Democratic Education

    ‘Remaking the World’: Neo-liberalism and the Transformation of Education and Teachers’ Labour

    Convention theory and neoliberalism

    Political Consumerism as a Neoliberal Response to Youth Political Disengagement

  120. Confused says:

    as I have long suspected, the REV is a pretty good writer when he allows himself to wander from his no-nonsense eviscerations
    but – I dont buy the basis of it

    whether you feel optimistic or otherwise, thats your own judgement
    I dont think theres been much change in recent years

    the old town full of tourist tat?
    shops closing, people moving in and out?

    same as it ever was, same as it ever was

    I dont understand the generalised tourism bashing – bellas has been on this for a while now – why not?

    think of tourists as asylum seekers, who change their minds after a bit
    come with money, spend it
    then fuck off back to where they came from
    – dont be racist, mkay

    and if the tourists want to feel the love from the trendy left, all they have to do is to tear up their return tickets and declare refugee status

    I do notice the enormous construction edinburgh has done over the past 20 years, but thats to be expected – theres always these whiners
    – place is a shithole, social deprivation, handwringing liberals, “think of the children”
    – place gets done up … complaints of “gentrification” and “loss of communities”
    away to fuck and gies peace

  121. Clootie says:

    …every silver lining has a cloud1

    …when one door shuts another slams in your face1

    that cheered me up 🙂

  122. Scotland is still the only country that said no to its own independence.
    I hope the No brigade are giving that some thought now.

  123. Cactus says:

    And speaking of Scotland’s ever-ready political evolution ’19…

    Ye cannae huv an evolution waeoot a Revolution

    Cheers Rev, for the ready made solution

    Aye turn 90 degrees on a train when that happens, boots up on the edge of the seats and over, these seats are taken

    If ah cannae huv mah back tae the wall, ah’ll choose for my back to the window, always choose ah window seat when flying

  124. Scottish Steve says:

    I guess the tartan and Welsh tat in shops is a way to compensate for not having real nationhood. A way to promote difference but not too different. We wouldn’t want to leave our English betters after all. Better to just let others decide everything for us while pretending to be proud wee Scots with our tartan tat.

    And I say that as a fan of the tartan tat in the shops.

  125. CameronB Brodie says:

    Though I’m not a local, I’ve lived in Edinburgh for the best part of thirty years. Sorry, but I think the character of the Old Town has changed considerably over that time, some for the better. The area suffered badly from urban decay and hot-spots of multiple deprivation, before the paradigm of urban regeneration was adopted in the 1980s. I’m certainly not assessing the outcome of the area’s regeneration, simply drawing attention to the area’s history of change, as described by Black Joan up-thread.

  126. Cactus says:

    Identify yerselves fine People of Edinburgh, talk to YOUR own Country

    Who are YOU?

    Fuck sake ah huvnae even started drinking yet!

    iHOME is our destination… Edinburgh X

    1745 and there we have it

  127. SilverDarling says:


    It’s not tourism everyone is getting at on its own – it’s the way increasingly people who work in public service and keep Edinburgh running can’t afford to live there.

    Take the Grassmarket for instance. Students make up the main tenant population from September until June. Then July August it’s is Air BnB. The landlords make more in 2 months than in the rest of the year. They won’t consider long term lets at all and there is no sense of community.

    Gentrification isn’t helping Edinburgh folk, these are absentee landlords raking it in.

    And it’s not Tartan tat that’s the problem, it’s Union Flag tat.
    Edinburgh has always been a mecca for tourists but when a city becomes populated by wealthy people who want to barricade themselves from the poor and people who flit in and out then who exactly is it for? It is becoming like London, teachers, nurses, carers all have to live in the outskirts and commute in.

    There is plenty of building going on but it is priced way out of the league of ordinary folk. There are hotels and student accommodation going up again for temporary residents.

    When you rip a city’s heart out it takes decades to get it back, just look at Glasgow with the social engineering that went on under Labour in the 1960s.

  128. Cactus says:

    Ahm surposed to be somewhere later Fine Wingers of Scotland ’19…

    Aye hope aye can make it to the dance, a to the strutters ball

    One mair time… GET it intae yer fine bein’, fine Edin

    Tis of Saturday nite fine revellers!

  129. yesindyref2 says:

    I agree, but for some reason the Rev doesn’t like the Gaelic either.

    Iechyd da!

  130. Jock McDonnell says:

    Edinburgh is in the main a truely beautiful city. I say that as a weegie.
    Sadly & I mean sadly, it’s only a Mickey Mouse capital though & apparently happy to be so.
    I can only hope that the citizens will realise that Edinburgh can be more than a provincial uk city, it can reclaim its birth right as the full capital of a sovereignty state.
    Never understood their mindset, happy to be well down the pecking order.

  131. Mark Russell says:

    defo says:
    30 March, 2019 at 4:29 pm
    Mark Russell
    Well Doh Mark!
    Obvs Dick & Harry kill Tom, and frame the landlord for it.
    Personally, I’d go with CO poisoning. Clean like. ?

    Bet you still have a betamax copy of Shallow Grave too! 😉

  132. Cactus says:

    East West of Eden is Glasgow, the shows are in, the shows are back in on the Green, Glasgow

    Glasgow could be a paradise City 2019

    Saltires are awe aroon the Green

    A ring of em


  133. Republicofscotland says:

    “Jack collatin says:
    30 March, 2019 at 5:15 pm
    Scotland is still the only country that said no to its own independence.”

    If its any comfort to you Tokelau twice declined its independence.

  134. AndyMcKangry says:

    Lord George Foulkes on Twitter
    The man is a Wankhole!!
    “That would be a hole in to which one wanks” ( in text ref; Rev SC 2019)
    What a great phrase!! And Foulkes fits the description perfectly!!

  135. unclebob says:

    Same goes for other “tourist” destinations. Have you been to the Isle of Skye recently? Over run, over developed and turning into a parody of itself.

  136. Graeme says:

    As a Dundonian I have to say I love Edinburgh it’s a beautiful city but sadly it gave up it’s right to be called a capital city on the 18 September 2014, maybe one day in the not too distant future the good people of Edinburgh will put that right

  137. yesindyref2 says:

    Just reading one or two gratuitous insults about Wales, and if people would go into a shop in Llanberis, Trawsfynydd, Beddgellert amongst others, as I have, and hear the Welsh people talking, well, Welsh, to each other, maybe they’d think again?

    Maybe the French should speak English, the Germans, Dutch …

  138. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Hmmm, I’m wondering if a good billboard for the (surely) coming indyref will be “Don’t take back control – vote No”…

  139. yesindyref2 says:

    Don’t forget that suppression of a language was behind the dominance of the “British Empire”, particularly in Wales, Ireland – and Scotland. And that an increasing interest in the language(s) of countries is a reassertion of national identity – and one that is recognised by the EU and the UN.

    I’m surprised people – includng the Rev – don’t recognise this.

  140. defo says:

    Mark. Shallow grave may have crossed my mind.

    Cameron. Nada, without my brief present.

    Back OT. We can do better.
    When the new indy reality materialises, no doubt a few will feel disappointed that the streets are still paved with tarmacadam, but i’m utterly certain that the tidal wave of positivity and possibility will carry us a long way from where we find ourselves here today.

    Embrace the tat. Sarcastic like. That’ll sort it.

  141. Ghillie says:

    Hey there Cactus 🙂 Good to see you here with your undying love and admiration for Scotland =)

    Good too to see so many ready to speak up Scotland when we have all the usual numpty suspects happy to take a cringey swipe at our own beautiful cities and Islands.

    Reasons to be cheerful : SNP 🙂

    Et Vive Ecosse et l’Independence 🙂

  142. yesindyref2 says:

    As far as tourist tat is concerned, though much would be imported from China, it’s still good for our local economy. And if Japanese or American tourists buy a red bus or a beefeater in Edinburgh or Skye rather than London, it’s their loss and our gain 🙂

  143. galamcennalath says:

    Goldman Sachs now puts the odds of Brexit not happening at all at 40%, up from 35%.

  144. Terry callachan says:

    Edinburgh is still very much Scottish, it’s just that the people,of Edinburgh go about their business quietly having had to live with the TAT most,of their lives.
    There are great places in Edinburgh that are very Scottish it may take you more than a day to find them.
    It’s true there are a lot,of tourists, but isn’t that what we want ?
    Union Jack flags everywhere is not just Edinburgh, Scotland is covered in them, business has gone along with it, Edinburgh has a huge population of English people ,English people who come here to work in our universities hospitals schools local govt and central govt all of which make it so much easier for them to get their jobs by having people at the top of their organisation who are themselves English and happy to employ people more familiar to themselves.
    The civil service has been working overtime this,last few years recruiting people from England too and yes I do believe in employing the best person for the job but I also believe in employing local people first ,clearly,the,latter has not been happening often enough.
    I have nothing against people from England or anywhere else coming to work in Scotland but it’s clear that a concerted effort has been made by Westminster to have those government organisations aforementioned headed by English people who then go on to employ other English people, could be that it’s only that they naturally feel more comfortable sorrounding rhemselves with familiar voices but I don’t think it’s as innocent as that.
    Property in Scotland has been bought up in huge amounts by English people and it has affected the market greatly, thats not new ,it’s been going on for decades,people get a lot more money for doing the same job in England than they would do in Scotland house prices in England are way higher and so we now have huge numbers of English people living in Scotland who have retired sold their house in England and bought a similar one in Scotland for half the price using their spare money to supplement their income and savings or use it to buy an Edinburgh flat to rent out on air bnb or buy a wee hotel or B&B in the highlands .
    If you have been there you will have noticed.
    If you work in a Scottish university or school or NHS ,local govt or central govt you will have noticed.
    St Andrews uni is like being in England hardly a Scottish person to be found.
    Edinburgh votes against Scottish independence because of all this.
    Too late to change that.
    Not too late for scottish independence
    Once independence comes all the english people in Scotland will have to integrate better than they do at present, I know many who work in a university and NHS who say they will leave Scotland and return to England ,they say it as if somehow I should beg them not to ? Odd.
    I think most will stay here ,they have a good life we welcome them but all this union jackery and looking down their noses at Scotland repeating the too wee too poor too stupid nonsense will have to disappear or they will look uncomfortably foolish.
    Scottish identity has been deleted to a great extent because our neighbour England finds it easier to do as it pleases in Scotland by englishing us, it’s not a surprise is it ?
    Scotland’s identity will return with gusto once we are independent and have people heading up our agencies and national organisations who want to support the true and free Scottish identity rather than the British nationalist version of Scottish identity we hate.
    It’s all about confidence, having the confidence to say STOP
    STOP this englishing of Scotland ,stop telling us what to do, stop telling us what we cannot do
    stop ripping us off taking our oil gas water fish whisky etc and then charging us more for it than in England .
    Can you imagine ,as a Scot,going to another country and openly telling the people there that they are too stupid too poor to wee to run their country ? honestly could you ?
    Well it happens here in Scotland every day, English people,working and living here openly telling us we are too wee too poor too stupid ,their overconfidence ,our lack of confidence.
    Next time you hear it challenge it.

  145. yesindyref2 says:

    It probably reflects tourist patterns as well. Enter the UK in London, do the stuff, maybe hire a car, drive up to Scotland and do Edinburgh, Inverness, Skye, back to Edinboro with a day before flying back to London to fly back to wherever.

    That’s one day to get all the souvenirs, and the MacJimmy Jock hat for Pierre, the London Bus for uncle Riku, the beefeater for Aunt Et. Everyone’s happy!

  146. yesindyref2 says:

    Preciesly why Sturgeon can’t call Indy ref 2 yet, or right until the very last minute. There’s still other options too, more even than when the Brexitshambles started.

  147. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    other options

    If they were convinced that Brexit really would mean Scottish independence, IMO the ruling group of Tories would cancel Brexit to save their Union.

    The integrity of the UK matters more to them that Brexit. That isn’t to say another group would prioritise leaving the EU. There many who would dump NI and Scotland to get England ‘free’.

  148. manandboy says:

    Brexit – not so much a choice to leave the EU, more an outbreak of a deadly cultural virus.

    “On March 29th, 2017, the day Theresa May sent a letter to Donald Tusk formally triggering Brexit, what I’ve come to think of as the defining Brexit sensibility was outlined in a YouGov survey which asked Leave voters what they would like to see re-introduced after Brexit.

    In reverse order, the top four results were: the re-introduction of corporal punishment in schools (42%); of imperial measure in shops (48%); of dark blue passports (52%) and, at No 1, of the death penalty (53%). (A scarily predictable 9% opted for the re-introduction of pre-decimal currency.)

    There you have it: Brexit is both inherently aggressive and dangerously nostalgic. Not to mention confused, to the point, I think, of delusion. The NHS website identifies delusions, confused thoughts and lack of insight and self-awareness as the prime symptoms of psychosis. That seems apt. Nothing about its way of handling the withdrawal negotiations would seem to suggest other than that Britain may be suffering from collective psychosis.”

  149. Capella says:

    @ Terence Callaghan – property developers have been ruining Edinburgh since at least the 1960s when I lived there. They weren’t English. Chairman of the Edinburgh Housing Committee, Cornelius Waugh, enabled much of this. He was a Leither.

    Housebuilders, Gumleys, Millers etc Edinburgh. Miller the Builder was Provost of Edinburgh before becoming the Lord Provost of London City.

    I’m told that these “are the finest men that money can buy”. Allegedly. But they were not English.

  150. Mad Unionist says:

    The author is being emotional and nostalgic. The EU is a corrupt organisation and will stamp on any dissent. It is an elitist Liberal anti working class organisation. They even want to establish an army. Trade and cooperation does not require 729 MEPs. The Scottish Nationalists are ready to sell out an independent Scotland to their EU masters. The author clearly is too young to remember the EU insult in handing out the EU butter and cheese mountains to the plebs.

  151. Croompenstein says:

    They even want to establish an army

    Fucking total pish ya pure radge

  152. Peter Marjoram says:

    My big fear is that a right wing Tory government could, quite legally, end the Scottish parliament (and the Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies)at a whim, and there is nothing that we could do about it!!

  153. yesindyref2 says:

    Well said.

  154. Mad Unionist says:

    The idiot Croomp at 2009 does not seem to observe what is going on in the EU. Army by 2026 according to Juncker.

  155. yesindyref2 says:

    @Peter Marjoram
    The legal opinion is that the amendment to the Scotland Act with the permanence of Holyrood, can’t be reveresed without a referendum. So no, they can’t end the Scottish parliament “at a whim”.

  156. yesindyref2 says:

    “Mad Unionist”

    Says it all, frankly.

  157. auld highlander says:

    Changed it’s name again?

  158. Dr Jim says:

    A guy in the pub told him

  159. Bob Mack says:

    @Mad Unionist,

    People were glad of the free butter. They took the lot.

    When the UK joined the EU it was known as the sick man of Europe and had been for many years going to the IMF to just keep afloat. Yep, begging for charitable handouts.

    Your memory is selective.

  160. Bob Mack says:


    Heard many insults about Wales? Your interpretation skills require some remedial work.

  161. Croompenstein says:

    The idiot Croomp at 2009 does not seem to observe what is going on in the EU. Army by 2026 according to Juncker

    Haw roaster give us the links to where the EU have stated this policy and don’t fucking dare link to the mail or the express 🙂

  162. Hamish100 says:

    Mad Unionist
    More of a liar.

    British Union took us to war in Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan etcetera.
    Scotland has no say.
    EU cannot.

    British Union can set off nuclear weapons costing billions of lives and while foodbanks increase
    EU cannot and will not.

    Back to the sewer mad unionist.

  163. Cymro says:

    The parts of Wales which are predominantly Welsh-speaking voted to remain in the EU and elect Plaid Cymru MPs and Assembly Members. That many of my countrymen and women spend their time looking up England’s arsehole waiting for the sun to shine is a sad fact but some of the posters here appear to have no understanding of Wales at all. And the fact that there are proportionally more English people resident (full time and part-time) in wales than in Scotland skewed the EU vote.

  164. Petra says:

    Don’t worry Joanna you’ll all be heading home, for good, in the very near future.

    Joanna Cherry:-

  165. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Mad Unionist
    “It is an elitist Liberal anti working class organisation.”

    Right on Comrade, the EU’s efforts towards maintaining social cohesion in the face of neo-liberal globalisation, count for nothing. Efforts towards enabling sustainable economic growth across Europe, has been purely for the benefit of continental oligarchs. Stroll on you complete rocket.

  166. Lenny Hartley says:

    Yesindy2ref, where did you see this legal opinion? This from wikipedia. Quote This Act recognises the Scottish Parliament and a Scottish Government as permanent among UK’s constitutional arrangements, with a referendum required before either can be abolished. However, according to some commentators, the act institutes a weak statutory mechanism, which does not stipulate provisions or guarantees for such a referendum, or makes duties of Crown Ministers in this respect publicly answerable to the Scottish electorate.[3] unquote.

  167. Fairliered says:

    Why should Edinburgh be the capital of an independent Scotland? If could be Glasgow. Dundee – independence city – deserves it most.

  168. yesindyref2 says:

    @Bob Mack
    You were pretty hard on HC for defending his/her language, not just once but in reply to him/her, insisting it was just for cultural reasons. Would you like that if someone not from Scotland did that about Gaelic and Scots, and went on about how Scotland always voted Labour – an English party – and voted NO to Independence?

    Really? You’d like someone, HYFUD for instance, tell you crap about your country?

  169. yesindyref2 says:

    Yougov 2019 poll for Wales, assembly results:

    Labour: 32% (-8)
    Conservatives: 26% (+1)
    Plaid Cymru: 23% (+3)
    Liberal Democrats: 8% (+1)
    UKIP: 7% (+2)
    Others: 5% (+2)

    Labour: 29% (-7)
    Conservatives: 24% (no change)
    Plaid Cymru: 23% (+3)
    Liberal Democrats: 6% (+2)
    UKIP: 6% (+2)
    Greens: 4% (no change)
    Abolish the Assembly: 4% (-1)
    Others: 4% (+2)

    PC are coming back up again, and who knows, might become the minority government next election like the SNP did in 2007. I doubt the Welsh language is getting in its way on that.

    And PC? Stands with the SNP in Westminster – as does the LABOUR controlled government there, with the Scottish Government over the Withdrawal Agreement.

    And that’s it from me about Wales.

  170. Bob Mack says:


    I see your point, but I also come from Welsh ancestry. I think it is important to remember that Wales has been under English control since the days of Edward 1. Deliberate efforts were made since that time to subdue it’s culture, culminating in Henry 8 completely banning the speaking of Welsh to surprise that culture.

    Only the Church kept the language alive by declaring it acceptable, and producing Welsh bibles.. Industrialisation created an influx of thousands of English workers to Wales, many who stayed.

    Only in the late 1990s was law relaxed to allow the speaking of Welsh to official bodies.

    At the beginning of this century Welsh language was almost obsolete apart from rural areas because of the above factors.

    Yes, the Welsh are a proud people ,but often through the effects of integration of nearly 800 years have become somewhat Anglified in outlook,

    Just as England we claim has tried the same with Scots for over 300 years, then the Welsh have had that influence much, much longer

  171. Mad Unionist says:

    Google EU Army and you will get Merkel and Macron speeches 2018.

  172. ronnie anderson says:

    Mad Unionist You forgot about the tins of stew as well as the cheese & butter I delivered & chapped many auld folks door as the couldn’t get to the distribution centre .

    Same as all Unionists only half ah story .

  173. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Petra @ 20:54,

    Jeez, these Leavers, they are hard to please. “T.r.a.i.t.o.r.s” who come from a foreign country?

    Instead of continually whinging at us about what a drain on their precious country we all are, you would think that they would be grateful to us for wanting to break away.

    Confused doesn’t even start to describe them.

  174. Bob Mack says:

    @@Mad Unionist,

    I believe the EU already has an army, though each unit appears to be based in its own country funnily enough. The UK has been doing joint exercises with them for decades.

    In the event of war Britain “shall stand alone”. My ass. We would be digging out our mutual defence treaties rather sharpish

  175. CameronB Brodie says:

    Mad Unionist
    Are you comfortable with British neo-liberalism, just not that foreign neo-liberalism? British neo-liberalism looks out for the interests of British workers, does it not?

  176. Mad Unionist says:

    CameronB Brodie. Your social cohesion in the EU has seen dozens killed because of Merkel and Macron policy.

  177. CameronB Brodie says:

    My concerns about the EU are almost entirely related to the challenge to democracy presented by the European Central Bank and the Eurozone. These concerns are nothing compared to mine re. Scotland’s future within Brexitania.

    The new EU industrial policy: authoritarian neoliberal structural adjustment and the case for alternatives

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    Mad Unionist
    Got any evidence or are you simply full of prejudice?

  179. robertknight says:


    The Act does not make any mention of the Scottish Parliament being open to suspension. Stormont hasn’t been abolished, but in it’s current suspended state there isn’t a big difference in terms of output.

    Nothing to prevent a majority at Westminster passing legislation which would temporarily suspend Holyrood for an indefinite period in the national interest of the UK, in what would no doubt be claimed to be exceptional circumstances.

  180. stewartb says:

    Fairliered @ 8:56 pm

    You wrote: “Why should Edinburgh be the capital of an independent Scotland?”

    On Edinburgh and its majority view in 2014 againts independence, I still recall the reports of the Spectator’s event for the city’s elite prior to the Indyref1 as reported by Alex Massie.


    Massie wrote: “Before proceedings began 119 members of the audience agreed with the motion that ‘Independence is the greatest threat to Edinburgh’, 27 disagreed and 36 did not know what they thought. Two hours later opinion had hardened: 169 for the proposition, 19 against and only 6 poor undecided souls.”

    “For the proposition Ian Murray, Labour MP for Edinburgh South, made a narrowly Edinburgh-focused case for the status quo. Auld Reekie is braw, he said, and why risk changing that? ‘We must keep Scotland leading the UK, not leaving it,’ he boasted. Citing the nationalists’ desire for a currency union with the rump UK, he suggested they wish to ‘dismantle everything only to reconstruct it again’. What’s the point of that? In any case, we’re all right Jock.”

    “Annabel Goldie, erstwhile leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party, condemned what she saw as the narrow, limiting, worldview of the SNP. Britain is a grand country and we should be proud to be part of a state that punches above its weight in world affairs. Scotland can best express its internationalism through the UK. Independence, while plainly feasible, would diminish us and our role in the world.”

    Hardly working out as well as this audience thought: Brexit; the lost opportunities for the city’s financial sector to Dublin, Frankfurt and Paris to attract business ; the apparent ignorance of the economic benefits that accrue to the capital regions of independent countries, even those of smaller countries such as Ireland.

  181. yesindyref2 says:

    @Bob Mack
    Yes, the Welsh are a proud people ,but often through the effects of integration of nearly 800 years have become somewhat Anglified in outlook

    My parents were Welsh till the days they died (I never lived there).

    Week before last I was ordering up stuff from a supplier in Wales. He’d only sobered up by the wednesday, and forgot to phone me to confirm the availability of the order on the friday as he was off celebrating that weekend as well. Anglified? I don’t think so! Wales had won the grand slam.

  182. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wonder if Annabel Goldie feels a bit of a numpty now and whether she feels any remorse for peril Scotland now faces? Does Annabel Goldie have moral consciousness or is she she an ideological, true red white and blue, Tory?

  183. Bob Mack says:


    If what you say is true about the Welsh people and Wales is correct, then any claim on this forum that England is or has tried to Anglify or subdue the culture of Scotland by similar methods must be complete nonsense.
    Am I correct?

  184. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Mad Unionist

    You’re a bit of a thicko in new clothes, but just about everybody here knows that already.

    “Google EU Army and you will get Merkel and Macron speeches 2018.”

    I’ve probably heard more Merkel speeches live than you’ve (n)ever read. 😉

    Have you never heard of NATO, you know, where the Alliance Partners contribute part of their forces to common traing, ammunition standards, compatible communications, command structures etc.? Each country/military is independent but working together for the common good.

    As a Brit. Nat you should know how important that is to members of NATO.

    The EU has put forward plans for discussion to create an internal smaller version of NATO consisting only of EU member states.

    This would make also it easier for NATO. Instead of having to integrate/communicate with all the NATO member EU states indiviually, they would operate as one unified member.

    Advantages all round..!

    That’s all you’ll get from me now you poor little loser… 🙂

  185. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Annabel Goldie
    I thought you could do with a little instruction in Moral Philosophy, seeing as you appear to be a Tory.

    Reformulating Mill’s Harm Principle


    Mill’s harm principle is commonly supposed to rest on a distinction between self-regarding conduct, which is not liable to interference, and other-regarding conduct, which is. As critics have noted, this distinction is difficult to draw. Furthermore, some of Mill’s own applications of the principle, such as his forbidding of slavery contracts, do not appear to fit with it.

    This article proposes that the self-regarding/other-regarding distinction is not in fact fundamental to Mill’s harm principle. The sphere of protected liberty includes not only (most) self-regarding conduct, but also actions that affect only consenting others. On the other hand, the occasional permissibility of interfering with self-regarding conduct can plausibly be explained by reference to the agent’s consent.

    Thus, the more important distinction appears to be that between consensual and non-consensual harm, rather than that between the self-regarding and non-self-regarding action. That is, interference can be justified in order to prevent non-consensual harms, but not to prevent consensual harms. It is argued that the harm principle, thus reformulated, both captures Mill’s intentions and is a substantively plausible position.

  186. HYUFD says:

    Yesindyref2 On those numbers the Tories would replace Plaid as the official opposition to Labour again.

    Welsh Labour would be down from 34.7% to 32% on the constituency vote and 31.5% to 29% on the list but the Tories would be up from 21.1% on the constituency vote to 26% and 18.8% on the list vote to 24%. That would be more than the Plaid rise from 20.5% on the constituency vote to 23% and 20.8% on the list also to 23%

  187. Cactus says:

    Roll the dice… THIA entity is you

    Glasgow 2019


  188. Cactus says:

    WTF was that LIKE

    THIS is THAT


  189. CameronB Brodie says:

    You could do with a bit of instruction in Moral Philosophy, as well, Toryboy.



    Standard, familiar models portray harms and benefits as symmetrical. Usually, harm is portrayed as involving a worsening of one’s situation, and benefits as involving an improvement. Yet morally, the aversion, prevention, and relief of harms seem, at least presumptively, to matter more than the provision, protection, and maintenance of comparable and often greater benefits. Standard models of harms and benefits have difficulty acknowledging this priority, much less explaining it. They also fail to identify harm accurately and reliably.

    In this paper, I develop these problems, argue that we should reconsider our commitment to the standard models, and then merely gesture at the direction in which we might locate a superior approach, one that better accounts for the moral significance of harm and its relation to autonomy rights.

  190. HandandShrimp says:


    Regardless, the Tories would likely be the official opposition because Labour would probably need PC to form some sort of formal or informal coalition on those numbers.

  191. Mad Unionist says:

    Graf Midgehunter Telling porkies. NATO reject an EU fascist army.

  192. HandandShrimp says:

    Sorry HYUFD that should be. Getting close to my bedtime.

  193. manandboy says:

    Brexit – revealing more and more of what has been carefully hidden or disguised about The Establishment, the Tory Party, the Labour Party and a large number of extremist, racist and very aggressive English people, who think they are something superior and special. But they are deluded.

  194. Bob Mack says:

    @Mad Unionist,

    I think you mean America rejects a European army ,not NATO.

    Considering 26 out of the 28 NATO members are European States.
    America and Canada being the other two.

  195. CameronB Brodie says:

    Mad Unionist
    The most basic description I can give of fascism, is an authoritarian opposition to rational self-determination? How do you define fascism? Is it only foreign fascism that concerns you? That would be a bit prejudiced of you, you know. 😉

  196. Cactus says:

    Aye move THIS emotion… division is denied Johnny Berc

    Dya wanna PLAY…

    Ra connection is maid

    Aye do

    When did ye last hear the sound of live crickets like?

  197. Cactus says:

    We live within crazy times, sexy Scotland, crowdfunder a comin”

    Gimme a connection babe

    To the Green

  198. O/T

    Looks like the (t)Ruthless Davidson party is going to rise form the ashes of the Conservative party. Front page of the National suggests they are about to break away from the South Britain lot.

    Means she doesn’t have to resign if the backstop is voted through – she’ll just go home and take her party with her….

  199. Cactus says:

    Too weeks tae go Scotland…

    Ye up for THIS crazy game

    We haud all the cairds

    17 kens

  200. Robert Knight, Yes indyref 2

    Nothing to stop WM suspending Holyrood as these are ‘not normal’ circumstances….

    Not so quick there:

    not if the S Gov.’s New Scottish Constitution has been passed in Holyrood as this will enshrine all the current powers at Holyrood and protect them from any power grab.

    All down to the triple mandate and the Claim of Right

  201. Dave M says:

    I’m just back from the Edinburgh v Munster rugby (and post-match drinks). Over 30,000 fans at Murrayfield, but most of them were in Munster red. Interestingly, there was a pipe band (no flutes) which played ‘Flower of Scotland’ several times. I had to laugh because, as I said to my friend, Edinburgh is the least Scottish of our cities. Unsurprisingly, nobody sang along. ‘The Fields of Athanry’ rang out several times. I think that’s an interesting parallel with the preponderance of tartan tat shops and an overall lack of Scottish identity of the city.

  202. Cactus says:

    On behalf of Scotland…

    Aye hereby claim The Claim of Right

    We have a constitution

  203. CameronB Brodie says:

    Time for some more Moral Philosophy and perhaps some Legal Theory? I think this is also relevant to Scottish sectarianism at football grounds.

    Do societies prioritize harm prevention?


    In this essay, I respond to Keating’s claim that harm prevention is a normative principle that rationally guides the law. Starting with tort law, I argue that though there are doctrines like strict liability that seem to reflect the priority of harm prevention, they can be explained differently. Rather than reflecting a concern with preventing harms, I suggest these doctrines are based on concerns with the distribution of losses.

    I then argue that it is not obvious that societies in fact prioritize harm prevention, and question whether they should when the costs of doing so outweigh the losses. Finally, I raise some questions about the method of argument that relies on appeal to intuitions about concrete cases, which Keating and others rely on in arguing for the priority of harm prevention.

    Keywords : negligence, cost-benefit analysis, moral intuition

    Deontological Restrictions and the Good/Bad Asymmetry


    The Political Philosophy of Harm Reduction

  204. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    YouGov poll, Scotland sub sample:
    SNP: 45%
    Tories: 17%
    Labour: 18%
    Lib Dem: 8%
    Green: 5%
    UKIP: 3%
    Brexit Party: 1%
    Other: 3%
    Fieldwork: 24th to 25th March

    Interesting, though I’m surprised Labour is ahead of Tories. In line with the good result in the by election on Thursday. previous experience indicates that YES vote would be about 8% to 10% higher than the SNP vote. I also don’t believe that any of these polls represent accurately the younger vote.

    I find it very odd that though I get about 3 or 4 You Gov polls every week I never get a political one. Perhaps I indicated my position a couple of years ago and this has had me written out.

  205. Cactus says:

    Here aye find meself in a rave club fine Kenneth

    What should aye do D?

    1) Keep dancing
    2) Go with the beat
    3) Go aff topic

    YOU should try there too KD he he ha ha he

  206. CameronB Brodie says:

    Correct link to the “Deontological Restrictions” article.

  207. CameronB Brodie says:

    Time for a bit of hard-core ethics?

    Beyond Utilitarianism and Deontology: Ethics in Economics


    This article starts from a methodological position that fact and value are mutually related, both in the real world and in economic analysis. It then discusses deontological ethics. This approach is concerned with equality and dignity, as expressed in right and norms, and how these rights and norms constrain individual choices. Deontology is thus different from the utility maximisation of utilitarian ethics, where ethics appears in utility functions as moral preferences. The paper then argues that, although deontology does better than utilitarianism in analysing ethics in economics, it has its own weaknesses.

    These weaknesses require another theory of ethics for economics, virtue ethics, which emphasises the interrelatedness of agents and commitment to shared values beyond the rules that a society has institutionalised. Virtue ethics internalises morality not as a preference or a constraint, but through the practices in which agents are related in their pursuit of value added.

  208. North chiel says:

    Re “ Terry Callachan @ 0733 pm . This has been going on for decades Terry . Unfortunately, for the Britnat establishment” ( and I choose that phrase carefully) , more recently there has been significant competition from EU citizens coming to live and work in Scotland within the sectors you mention ( Health service, universities, local gov., etc. and private sector). The Britnat establishment don’t like this competitition as the vast majority of our EU citizens do not “ lord it over” the locals with “ superiority complexes” when employed within the “ administrative hierarchy “ of some of these organisations, they are content indeed to live and work among fellow citizens on “ the same level” . I note that they tend to form “ cliques” , ( socially& at work) very much less than our more traditional UK transient “ expats” ( that’s a good word in this context) . I am all for cultural diversity (and long term integration ) ,however some people seem to be more culturally sensitive than others and “ blend in “ with the environment, whilst others appear to wish to retain and even impose their culture on others.
    To change the subject ( slightly) , I note that the latest “ propaganda” from the “ Britnat State broadcasters “ highlights a “ poll” I believe, from the “ ultra Britnat Mail on Sunday” , giving Corbyn a 5 point lead over the Tories. Obviously , this is a “ scare story” to “ ensure” that TM under no circumstances countanances a snap GE , which could put the possibility of a EU 2 vote and even remaining in the EU firmly on the table . This latest propaganda “ con” is to increase the likelihood of a “ No deal/ May deal Brexit only .

  209. Cactus says:

    One is outwith their safety zone

    Ahm pure raving like wae night-sticks

    Lookin, learnin an understanding awe at the 1 time

    Big learn

  210. HYUFD says:

    HandandShrimp Labour might have a majority with the LDs on those numbers without the need for Plaid

  211. HYUFD says:

    Though of course the Tories were the opposition to the Labour-Plaid administration from 2007-11

  212. Mad Unionist says:

    CameronB Brodie. Fascism is well defined. Scottish Nationalists probably qualify. Not accepting the majority vote of the people!

  213. Cactus says:

    Evenin HYUFD, how ye doin’, neighbour like

    Take ah trip tae Glasgow bud

    Ahm buyin’

  214. CameronB Brodie says:

    You are so out of your depth and apparently unaware of your political nature. Your deployment of empirical waffle doesn’t concern me, as it it classical utilitarian pish. I seek justice, you oppose my rational self-determination. What does that make you, Toryboy?

    24.231 Ethics – Handout 17 Nagel, “Ethics” (or “Autonomy and Deontology”)

    The “central problem of ethics”: “how the lives, interests, and welfare of others make claims on us and how these claims, of various forms, are to be reconciled with the aim of living our own lives” (p. 164)

    Agent-relative vs. Agent-Neutral Reasons

    “If a reason can be given a general form which does not include an essential reference to the person who has it, it is an agent-neutral reason. For example, if it is a reason for anyone to do or want something that it would reduce the amount of wretchedness in the world, then that is a neutral reason. If on the other hand the general form of a reason does include an essential reference to the person who has it, it is an agent-relative reason. For example, if it is a reason for anyone to do or want something that it would be in his interest, then that is a relative reason.” (pp. 152-3)

  215. CameronB Brodie says:

    Mad Unionist
    And you appear to be another ignorant tube.

  216. Cactus says:

    Hey Cam, Now is ra time tae be a dick… that’s me

    Dont give a fuck…

    Pure ravin’

  217. Cactus says:

    Ahm in the Classic Grand, Scotland, they let me in again

    Takin’ it doon at Jamaican St

    Challenge moi, like

    Wow like

  218. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ravin’ in a good way though, as your actions are NOT undermining my biological security, unlike the full-English Brexit. 😉

  219. Cactus says:

    Biological security…

    That’s a new one on me dude

    What’s yer pleasure

    Show me 😉

  220. HYUFD says:

    Cactus Have travelled through Glasgow several times, for instance when travelling to the Western Isles

  221. grant says:

    frankly, we’re fucked.

  222. HYUFD says:

    CameronBBrodie If you really want to completely ignore any point I make and respond with a second year philosophy essay to try and prove your intellectual superiority fine, whatever floats your boat!

  223. Cactus says:

    Hey HYUFD, marning tae ye bud, what was ur highlight whenst travelling thru Scotland

    We have it all, what do you have, what ye intae bud?

    Taxi for me, ahm paying

  224. Cactus says:

    Hey fine grant

    Be you a long time lurker?

    Whit brings you here…

    Keep posting poster

    Engage me

  225. Cactus says:

    Fuck sake, what is it when fuckers keep flanking you…

    Ahm on a plane orra train

    Just chillin’ to it


    “Ah need ah miracle.”

  226. Liz g says:

    Hey Cactus x
    Don’t forget the clock just changed 🙂

  227. Cactus says:

    Dude, ahm the same as you Rev..

    Find yer own space


  228. Iain mhor says:

    Butter & cheese mountains – oh ma ribs.
    Wait…wine lakes, lakes of the stuff!
    Economics 101
    The EU had and still has the capacity to collapse economies.
    Economics is warfare by other means.
    Flood Russia or the Mid West of America with cheap grain, what happens? Pick a country, even within the EU itself. Is it getting a bit uppity? What’s their prime export? Really? Flood the market with it…

    The EU can do it, America, China, Russia, OPEC, anyone with a surplus can do it – cleaner than bullets and bombs and much more damage. The UK can’t do it on its own with manufacturing or agricultural produce or natural resources – no surplus you see, because it sucks it all in, pisses it up a wally close and spits out wee bubbles – money markets is another story.

    Scotland could do it, with produce & natural resources alone. If you can do it, you have power. If you join forces you have more. Fundamentally that’s what the EU was all about. But then it had power over the UK – A “country” which believes it has its own inherent power, but never defined.

    Happy Joint Warrior Week. Happening all over the UK, sorry, Scotland (I meant Scotland, shut it) Nae charge, nae rent lads…knock yersels oot all around Scotland… Its fuckin empty and the natives are dicks, nae worries man… Want tae buy a watch?

  229. Cactus says:

    Hey Liz mwah xx

    Time has changed

    Maybe ah’ll get a lumber some day

    Ahm too shy for that shit

    Ah still need a miracle

  230. CameronB Brodie says:

    Your don’t really merit reply, it’s just I think your political outlook is dangerous. I’m pointing to basic concepts of moral democracy you didy, principles you certainly don’t appear to support. So don’t expect I’ll ignore you or show you respect, Toryboy. I’ll tolerate you but take the piss. Sound ok?

  231. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, here’s one for you Cactus

  232. CameronB Brodie says:

    Describing educational course material from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, as a “second year philosophy essay”. The boy is a complete rocket.

  233. Cactus says:

    Dudes keep trying take tae mah hat aff me heid

    That last one was a girl

    Keep ravin’

  234. Cactus says:

    Welcome back tae Spring Wingers

    Now is the time, to…

    Fuck Westminster


  235. yesindyref2 says:

    At least CBB has a boat to float. So does Cactus right enough!

  236. Cactus says:

    Hey HYUFD…

    Ahm gettin’ the aye aye frae ah bird…

    What should aye DO dude?

    Got SO many premonitional ideas dude

    Show me dude…

  237. Cactus says:

    Aweright yesindyref2…

    This place is mental

    Mon hat has been recovered

    Ah wouldnae be me waeoot it like

    Aye ahm me and U r U

  238. Cactus says:

    Now is the time for iScotland…

    Ra time is NOW

    Yer maw

  239. Cactus says:

    Ain’t asking furra challenge y’all…

    Just a hi…


  240. Cactus says:

    Hey Ghillie babe

    We are here

    iScotland never went away

    Fucking rave sounds

    They go on

    Ahm gaun dicing soon…

  241. Cactus says:

    Let us start a revolution ’19

    It only takes one…

    It could be U

  242. CameronB Brodie says:

    Toryboy is an educational tool that just keeps on giving. I wouldn’t have thought of these lines of argument without him. 🙂

    Should Communities Have Rights? Reflections on Liberal Individualism


    The central question for this paper is whether communities should have rights. This is a question that I will consider in a certain ideological or normative context, namely, that of liberalism. There are other contexts in which the question could be asked; for in non-liberal ideological settings there have sometimes been clear positive answers to the question of whether minority communities should have rights. Thus, the Ottoman Empire’s millet system provided a system of group rights. Various other autocratic states like Czarist Russia have also provided at least some de facto if not de jure protection for various minority groups.

    One might even argue that various nineteenth and twentieth century European colonial regimes protected to some extent minority ethnic rights. On paper, Marxist governments in the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia have made provision for various sorts of group rights; but as current events attest, neither Moscow nor Belgrade is very comfortable with the vigorous exercise of such rights. Indeed, in both the origins and the consequences of the First and Second World Wars, group rights played an extensive role.

    John Rawls, the conception of a liberal self, and the communitarian critique

    Rethinking Agency & Responsibility In Contemporary International Political Theory

    A Moral Underpinning for Legal Ethics

  243. Cactus says:

    Anygoodybuddy wanna challenge moi le soir

    Yer welcome to, but why would ye want tea?

    Aye will kick yer fucking arse

    Try me lurkers

  244. Cactus says:

    Rev, ahm on the edge like

    SO many tunes to PLAY

    They are not bothering me anymore…

    Maybe they know aye ahm

    It’s all news to me

  245. Cactus says:

    Okay we have a keen lumber… she is friendly an ayeballin’ me

    But ahm too shy for that shit

    Independence first

  246. Dr Jim says:

    I lived and worked in Spain 15 years or so and speak the language (with a bit of a Glasgow accent) and I still don’t understand Spain or Spanish people because I’m not one and I wasn’t brought up there

    Isn’t it amazing how English folk insist they understand all about Scotchland because they’ve been to the Edinburgh festival or had four or five holidays here

    I’m also 70 years old and I still don’t understand all of my own country, so troll folk, stop using that nonsense as an argument it’s really really silly endears you to no one it’s pretty offensive and you wouldn’t try it on the Welsh or Irish so y’know, don’t, it makes you sound even more stupid

    Unless you wear a see you jimmy hat and a kilt get drunk fight and dance around then we’ll be totally convinced

  247. Cactus says:

    Aye see People that are alive

    Aye scare the shit of em

    Aye scare the shit oot maself

    People are crowding around me…

    What shood aye do?

  248. Cactus says:


  249. Cactus says:

    Hey yesindyref2

    One must head ootside furra cigarette fur karma

    Ah’ve been overcome by something

    She’s beautiful

  250. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dr Jim
    You’d have to have an extensive knowledge of a culture before you have any ethical right to interfere in its’ political culture. Unfortunately, this is not the manner of “English utilitarians” like Toryboy.

    Utilitarianism and International Ethics

    Summary and Keywords

    Utilitarianism is inextricably linked to international ethics. The roots of the principle of utility can be traced to the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, when it was first employed by thinkers such as David Hume. However, it was Jeremy Bentham who first formulated utilitarianism in detail and carefully studied its implications.

    According to Bentham, happiness is a condition in which an individual enjoys more pleasure than pain. There are different varieties of utilitarianism, and what sets them apart from other ethical theories is their stipulation that whatever is of value should be maximized for all and whatever of disvalue should be minimized for all. For Bentham, pleasure is the ultimate value. Later, John Stuart Mill distinguished between higher and lower pleasures and argued that higher pleasures should be given greater weight.

    In the twentieth century, authors such as R. M. Hare determined that maximal satisfaction of preferences is the value to be sought. The utilitarian emphasis on maximization and its choice of values have generated much criticism from those who espoused human rights theories, such as John Rawls and those influenced by his work. At present, the scholarly literature dealing with issues related to international ethics mostly comes from those who are committed to human rights theory or who are committed to equality of outcomes for human beings.

    Keywords: utilitarianism, international ethics, Jeremy Bentham, happiness, pleasure, pain, John Stuart Mill, R. M. Hare, human rights, equality

  251. Cactus says:

    Fuck outside

    Ahm inside

    Scotland is

  252. Cactus says:

    The last time ah went tae ah rave was in the inside…

    One remains on the outside…

    They’ve closed it over NOW

    BUT we went there

    The West End tube tunnels

    Then WE…

  253. Cactus says:

    Fuck the 12th of Avril… Westminster is fucked up like

    Ahm an Aries, we have Scotland

    Fire is guaranteed

  254. CameronB Brodie says:

    Wasn’t it the Tories who trotted out the “back to basics” mantra? Wasn’t the Tbot listening?

    Back to Basics: State Power in a Contemporary World
    Authority, Coercion, and Power in International Relations

    Despite its central role in theories of international politics, scholars have an impoverished conception of power. Focusing almost exclusively on material capabilities and coercion, scholars ignore and even actively deny the role of political authority in relations between states. I attempt to demonstrate the importance of authority for world politics by showing how the concept makes coherent previously problematic or incomplete theories of international relations and produces new insights for future research.

    After distinguishing between authority and coercion as two major forms of power, I show that authority is central to variations in sovereignty, hegemonic orders, the conflict between developed and developing states, and the current debate over failed states and international trusteeship. International relations cannot be explained only by material capabilities and coercion. We need to bring authority “back in” to the study of world politics.

    Keywords: power, state power, authority, international relations, sovereignty, hegemony

  255. Cactus says:

    Welcome to tomorrow Scotland

    Welcome 2 today.

    Welcome to

  256. Cactus says:

    Dancey music…

    Do ye do it, it’s messin’ wae mah brain

    Trois day bender comin’ on…

    Come tomorrow

  257. Cactus says:

    Ahm that guy in the corner of the club…

    The quiet one

    If only they knew

  258. Cactus says:

    Everybuddy keeps wanting to wear my hat

    Aye have one of many

    Rev knows

  259. Cactus says:

    Help me out yesindyref2 or breeks…

    B4 aye rattle dis thread

    Just shared hat like

    Question asked

    Ahm naked


  260. Cactus says:

    Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah…

    Try commenting shy person

    The lights have just gone up inda club

    Where do we go, where do we go NOW?


  261. CameronB Brodie says:

    OK, it might be time to beam me up. What I’m trying to do is point to the international dimension of Scotland’s predicament, and highlight how the utilitarian ethics that underpins the British nationalist world view, is inadequate the task of protecting the human rights of Scotland’s public.

    Here’s some International Relations Theory pointing to the “positivist” logic that need sorting pronto, in order to enable ‘correct thinking’. Consideration of natural law would be my tip for success. 🙂

    International relations and the horizons of modem political theory

    Theories of international relations are a particularly interesting context in which to pursue the implications of poststructuralist suspicions of attempts to transcend inherited intellectual and political horizons because, at least as much as any other modern intellectual discipline, they are explicitly concerned with the politics of boundaries. They seek to explain and offer advice about the security and transgression of borders between established forms of order and community inside and the realm of either danger (insecurity, war) or a more universalistically conceived humanity (peace, world politics) outside.

    To be concerned with the implications of the postmodern turn for theories of international relations, therefore, cannot be simply a matter of importing the latest intellectual fad from elsewhere, in the way that certain forms of micro-economics or systems theory have been imported to provide models, metaphors and professional legitimacy for specific theoretical orientations and methodological strategies.

    It must, rather, involve trying to understand how theories of international relations – theories of relations across borders – have been constituted on the basis of historically specific and increasingly contentious claims about what it means to establish, defend or transgress borders, whether territorial or intellectual.

  262. CameronB Brodie says:

    Space and time for a bit more International Relations Theory? OK, absolutely the last one. I was looking for “State Sovereignty and the Articulation of Political Space/Time”, but can only find poor quality scans. This will have to fill the space instead. 😉

    Space, Territory and Sovereignty: Critical Analysis of Concepts


    Recognising the exceptionally complex context of the high post-modernity of current global situation, this study deals with the genealogy, critical examination and importance of the concepts of space/spatiality, territory/territoriality and sovereignty for the theory of international relations.

    At the first analytic level, primary effect of the “spatial turn” in social sciences will be detected, in the sense that politics is hardly conceivable without space, since there is no interrelation with the heterogeneous Other. Space is continuously articulated and rearticulated, it is discontinued/topological and under constant construction, through multifaceted and multi-dimensional relations and identities made of intersecting, networked political, social, economic and cultural circulations and connections.

    Hence, in line with the afore-said, remodeled regions are now treated as the connecting nexus of numerous fluxes and harmonised, juxtaposed and converging diversities. At the second and third analytic levels, the focus is on the processes of deterritorialization and reterritorialization as the central characteristics of contemporary international politics and the associated reformulation/reconfiguration of the idea of sovereignty.

    The centrepiece of the new territorial ontology and epistemology is the change of perspective in the conception of the territorial state as an omnipresent nucleus of modern political thought. The study emphasizes the idea of the social production of space and territory, the importance of the contingent, historical-cultural-social articulation of territoriality as a genuinely political project, foregrounding territory as a “networked social/spatial quantum”, as an underlying expression and agent of pluriversal spaces/territories, as apparently parallel and autarchic, but actually intersecting and tangent spatial units.

    Keywords: space, territory, sovereignty, state, “terrritorial trap”, deterritorialization, reterritorialization, globalization, international relations.

  263. Mary miles says:

    From Tasmania


    Feel helpless from over here. Keep working for Scotland’s freedom and future – people are depending on you and all the other Independence fighters – there is so much to lose. If Scots voted 62% to stay with EU and Indy Ref 1 was only lost by a small margin, surely when there is new moves for Independence, chances points to a successful vote. I for one will never stop hoping.

    Keep fighting – never give up!

  264. Liz g says:

    Mary Miles
    From Tasmania @ 4.33

    Oh we’ll keep on keeping on Mary and that you send your good wishes really means a lot and gives us heart!
    Thank You 🙂

  265. Liz g says:

    Win big Cactus 🙂
    But I caution ye, don’t go gambling without that hat ….

  266. Willie says:

    Dear Rev, thanks for this thoughtful piece. It most certainly resonated with me as it will have with so many others who will have read it.

    Do not give up. Yes our circumstances are utterly depressing.and in truth we are the authors of our own demise. We let this happen, or should I say a section of our nation let this happen.

    There were many in Germany in the 1930s who let it happen. They paid with their lives. Who is to say that it won’t be different here. Fascist Britain is a reality. The Hostile Environment, the hatred of foreigners, the belligerence, it is all here.

    Some will meekly go to their grave with little a murmur. They do so already .Fuel poverty, food bank existence, the poverty of an austerity driven low wage working poor, it’s all here. Others, may however will argue against, but with our politico’s acceptance,of the status quoted, and acceptance it is, they too will be consumed.

    Democracy does not work. 1930s Germany and today’s Great Britain tells you that.

  267. Cactus says:

    Ahm almost there Liz…

    Gambling closes at 6am

    Will they let me in

    Let’s find out

  268. Willie says:

    And yes Rev whien it comes to acceptance of our lot against our will I think the recent statement by Alan Smith MEP to the EU Parliament sums up how accepting our politicos are of where we are, and where we will remain.

    Asking for a light to be left on so that we can find our way home is about as good as saying to someone headed to Belsen concentration camp that the door will be left open for their return.

    Concommitantly with our First Minidter promoting the policy of a “soft” Brexit as opposed to a “no “ Brexit, one further see how there is, within the SNP, the acceptance of what is to come.

    Out of Europe and contained within a fascist Great Britain, a democratic and fair independent Scotland will never emerge.

    At least in 1707 the politico’s of that time got paid for selling out Scotland.

  269. Cactus says:

    Hey Liz, ah went one better, ah skipped the casino just cause

    Currently sitting under Robert Burns

    Ahm at Freedom Square X

  270. Cactus says:

    So much to say said Dave Matthews Band

    It’s awe SO peaceful awe around here

    The City of Scotland

  271. Cactus says:

    There are rickshaws and bicycles moving around within Freedom

    We have Glasgow tourists

    Enjoy yerselves

  272. Cactus says:

    To ye nae fond kiss…

    Frae Westminster we shall sever

    Fare ye well

  273. CameronB Brodie says:

    OK. absolute last one. Democracy can work, so long as national sovereignty is embedded in the public and the state adheres to the international rule-of-law. English legal doctrine and the English school of International Relations have other ideas about sovereignty though.

    The Concept of the State in International Relations
    Philosophy, Sovereignty, Cosmopolitanism

  274. Cactus says:

    Aweright Ronnie

    Ahm by 29 Royal Exchange Square

    Politician Ian Murray of SiU is not here tonight

    Clydebound and goin’ HOME Glasgow

  275. Cactus says:

    Hey Wings, ah’ve maid it 2 oor Merchant City, nae cabs like

    The sun is coming up fine go aff-topic Ken

    The trains are moving

  276. Cactus says:

    Yes, one has made it fucking HOME

    And there’s a bottle of wine by my window

    That should be a song like

  277. Cactus says:

    Rev on the red line

    Nice cover

  278. Cactus says:

    Ahm away tae play Candy Crush

    And maybe Cooking Fever, cheers sweety

  279. SheenaJ says:

    So much negativity on here, yes including the article itself. Nothing good was ever won through being negative, so please turn things round people and start looking for the positive.

    There is much to be optimistic about. At this time there is a great opportunity for Scotland to become independent and we have some great people in charge of our country right now to make it happen. Don’t you think they have plans, don’t you think that they are thinking about all this just as much as we all are? Why would they let the other side know what these plans are?

    What we need to do right now is persuade people and stay positive and focused, that is all.

    Negative thinking and talking just demoralises us all.

    Wings, the shops of Edinburgh really don’t indicate much except about market forces. Scotland’s identity feels very strong just now in my opinion. I remain very hopeful.

  280. Dorothy Devine says:

    Sheena J, most excellent !

    Needed the up beat input and I feel it’s time to hit the streets with many a saltire fluttering in the wind.

    Cactus ,night , night my nocturnal friend – I like to know you are safely home!

  281. schrodingers cat says:

    trouble up ‘t mill

    tory leadership race and potential ge

    from guardian

    “Under party rules, MPs will whittle the number of candidates down to two, and party members will then choose between them. There is now a real concern among mainstream MPs that a radicalised membership will simply select the most hardline candidate. “The party will deny that our membership has become more extreme, but it has – I’ve seen it,” said one member of the government. “The danger is if we put up Hunt against Johnson or Raab, they will go for Johnson or Raab.”

    what with all the factions in the london tories and the scot tories threatening an offski…… perhaps we should be more upbeat while our opponants, the unionists, self distruct

  282. manandboy says:

    Is it not becoming ever clearer, that the Movement for Scottish Independence is a completely separate event from Brexit.

    We might as well be on the Falklands Islands/Malvenas for all the space Scotland occupies in the minds of the Colonial & Unionist Ruling Class at Westminster. Let’s just say that our Imperial Masters are distracted right now, with no capacity whatsoever to consider the needs of the peoples of both Scotland and NI, or their political aspirations.

    In such circumstances as these, we are compelled to wait. This is of course, part of the ‘Union Dividend’, that special and unique benefit which we Scots enjoy because we’re ‘Better Together’.

    In Brexit, England spells out loud and clear, that Scotland is a colony, and a slave colony to boot, owned by England, lock, stock and barrel.

    And, by refusing to believe in the possibilities of freedom, as well as rejecting the responsibilities of Independence, the condition of slaves is precisely what No voters seem to want.

    It is perhaps the ultimate cowardice – the bare-faced refusal to be one’s very own self, choosing instead to draw all meaning and purpose in life from being permanently dependent on someone else.

    David Mundell is not one person. He is legion.

  283. Breeks says:

    If Europe had an army, just imagine the outcry if it demanded that Scotland had to keep nuclear weapons of mass destruction on the Clyde beside Scotland’s biggest city, then send troops to take part in illegal wars based upon evidence fabricated by crooked governments, then furthermore make its airstrips available for illegal air strikes to assassinate people or be party to rendition flights, then pay an absolute fortune for weapons of mass prestige it cannot afford to support with adequate aircraft or supporting protection fleet, then an Independent Sovereign Scotland could tell them to take a running jump.

    And if Europe hadhad a standing Army to which Scotland had contributed the number, caliber and military prowess of Scottish soldiery for one decade after another, I rather doubt Europe would have the ungrateful cynicism to arbitrarily disband Scotland’s noble and historic regiments, nor empty its airbases of maritime patrol aircraft, nor indeed dump thousands of tons of live munitions into Beauforts Dyke to start washing ashore on Scottish Beaches.

    I also recall the time a Russian Aircraft carrier was seen near the Forth Estuary and without a British naval vessel any closer than Portsmouth. Hardly seems unreasonable that a country with Scotland’s oil, coastline, shipping lanes and defence budget contribution is virtually naked of conventional defence and coastal patrol vessels or aircraft.

    I don’t expect a European Army would demand to use a Scottish Island to test weapons grade biological weapons which would leave it contaminated and uninhabitable for decades, consider remote parts of Scotland suitable for testing nuclear weapons, nor suppress economic development of West Coast oil reserves because of nuclear subs in the area.

    So once we’re independent, I look forward to the day when Scotland can determine the constitution of its own defence force, and decide for itself whether it is happy to be part of a European force, NATO, or any other alliance. And I have to say, NATO seems increasingly less and less like a defence pact and more like a cover for Western colonial aggression which reaches long way indeed from the North Atlantic. Maybe if NATO was a little less hawkish threatening to its neighbours, a little more even handed weighing up good and bad, then maybe Europe wouldn’t need to consider whether it needs other options for its own defence…

    What is Brexit if not a prime example why Europe should not place its reliance for defence on warmongering colonial Nations with a dissimilar, even incompatible philosophy, and also wracked with anti European prejudice?

  284. jockmcx says:

    Scots R stubborn…2014

    But thier not insane…2019

  285. schrodingers cat says:

    from same article

    “The move comes as MPs, including some in government, warn that they believe entryism by pro-Brexit supporters at local Conservative associations risks delivering a leader willing to back a hard break with the EU.”

    this pretty much confirms what I have been saying for a while about the rank and file tory party members, they will chose a no deal brexiteer replacement for treeza. Indeed, the constituency members have already started to deselect remainer tory MPs (see dominic grieve)

    i am also unsurprised that the scots tories are whispering about breaking from london tories. even mundell would struggle to campaign for a no deal tory party.

    they would of course come to some agreement whereby the tories wouldnt even stand candidates in scotland leaving ruthies new party a free run here.

    a less scrupulous person might suggest crowd funding the £15k needed to stand candidates in tory seats in scotland under the “available” banner of the scottish conservative and unionist party in an attempt to confuse the less aware electorate 🙂

  286. jockmcx says:

    And they dont like rogues

  287. manandboy says:

    Amongst the background din, apparently only 2% of Glasgow’s streets have a Catholic Church on them. But only those same streets are suitable for Orange parades.
    Scotland – home of the remarkable coincidence, and possibly one of the best known among the world’s most anti-Catholic countries, though the names of the others escape me for the moment.

  288. Ken500 says:

    Go off topic for goodness sake. For the good of the site credibility.

    Edinburgh is a brilliant City. One of the best in the world, The second most visited City in the world? Now there are more direct flights. The Chinese tourists and students are coming here, The largest population in the world. They even study Burns., They like Outlander and Potter, So does half the world. So is Glasgow the conference centre of the world.

    Westminster has taken so much resources illegally and secretly out of Scotland. They have not left enough in Scotland to invest more in the economy. The unionist councils have ruined the Cities wasting money on groteque non mandated monstrosities, offices and shops sitting empty. City centres a total mess, A concrete jungle of mismanagement. Then not spending on essential services and education. Borrowing and spending getting into unneccesary debt. On empty shops and offices, underoccupied hotels. No used and surplus to requirement.

    The most tourists that go to London are Chinese. London is a bit of a dump. Oxford Street full of some tatty souvenir shops. They sell cheap fashion. It is really congested. Tourist sites over subscribed and now can be quite dangerous. The terrorist and knife crime. Hangs like a cloud around it. It can be really expensive with the exchange rate. Overrated compared to Dublin (used as a base) and other European Cities. Some overseas visitor do a tour of Europe. Visit as many Cities as they can. US, Japanese, Chinese get few holidays,unless they are retired. Once in a lifetime.

    Thatcher used Scottish revenues to build up London. Secretly and illegally. Kept it secret under the Official Secrets Act. ‘This must be kept secret’ written on the documents. She build Canary Wharf (financial centre) bankers funded the Tory Party. Using £Billions of public money as a bribe for votes. Built Tilbury Docks. 26miles of dockland. Closing ports all over Britain.

    Thatcher centralised transport through London. That is why it is so congested . People can’t get anywhere with the tail backs and hold ups, it can get quite exhausting, HS2, Hinkley Point and Trident another total disaster and total waste of public money. Totally unneccessary waste. The Tory slush funds, The unionists will their nose in the snout as usual. The Westminster imbeciles are killing people and not funding public services properly. Cut them. Cut NHS, Education and welfare they were pledged and mandated to protect.

    It is unfair to compare some Cities in Scotland to the south and London S/E. Even Wales. All Scotland’s resources were taken secretly and illegally to fund London S/E. The radius spread out even to Wales. People can live in Wales and work in London. A two hour commute but still possible. For higher wages etc. The nearer places are to London S/E. The more they can benefit from excess funding by comparison. All roads lead to the South.

    Wales is underfunded and ill managed by the Westminster Gov. It was/is NI that got £Billions of extra funding because of the ‘troubles’. The malicious,malipulating DUP, who caused the trouble and the carnage by breaking UK Law. They are a Law unto themselves. The break the Law with impunity. To line their pockets with public monies For unionist votes at Westminster an absolute scandal of criminality. The totally, undemocratic Partition of Ireland. The illegal Balfour Agreement. Another absolutely appalling misjudge Westminster unionist policy. Appalling decision that has led to carnage. Lloyd George. Destroyed the world economy.

    The SNP have done a great job improving the Scottish economy in difficult circumstances. A totally unwarranted cut to the Scottish budget. 10% a year. Now £3Billion less. Totally unwarranted when the Scottish tax revenues are going up every year. Up £4Billion a year to £60Billion+ Ciuld be even higher.

    Westminster have totally mismanaged the Oil & Gas sector, the fishing industry and the farming business. Took £Millions of CAP intended for the poorer (sheep) farmers. They have mismanaged the Oil & Gas sector with high oil taxes when the price had fallen. 40% since Jan 2016. They have allowed discards for years limiting stocks instead of changing methods and using bigger nets. The UK fishing minister was an ignorant, arrogant Home Counties Tory, who knew nothing about fishing at all. Says it all. All these policies a disaster for Scotland. Losing £Billions of revenues.

    Westminster Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion have cost Scotland dear. £Billions that could have been invested in the Scottish economy. Instead of being overruled by a bunch of Westminster shysters. Destroying the world economy. Brexit another disaster.

  289. Terry callachan says:

    That’s more like it, Ken500 that’s the real story of bettertogether Scotland being drained of,its,resources,by England.

  290. Ken500 says:

    Scotland 13% Catholic. 32% Protestant. 1.8% Muslim. Scotland is mainly secular.

    5,000 Jewish faith in Edinburgh. 1,000 in Glasgow.

    World pop 7.7Billion.

    Christianity 2.4Billion (33%)
    Islam 1.8Billion (24%)
    Hindus 1.15Billion
    Secular/non religion/atheist 1.6Billion

    (Faith religions 5.9)

  291. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Just read that bawbag McKenna’s latest column in the Observer. Let’s cut him a bit of slack, his mind has probably been on this afternoon’s events at Celtic Park, more than politics, but, it’s a pretty sloppy effort – alabout how to revive that dead parrot – the Labour Party in Scotland.

    Still, it might give it a bit more credence if poor old Kevin was better at geography – since he makes a crack about scanning the skies above Bonnyrigg, to seek to find who abducted Labour.

    Trouble is, it’s Bonnybridge, rather than Bonnyrigg, which is the hot spot for extra-terrestial sightings in Scotland – well, other than Celtic Park and Ibrox.

  292. Ottomanboi says:

    We must snatch an independent Scotland from this Brexit fire. Let the smug Anglos tear themselves apart. Should we, in all honesty, care? Scotland first and last applies now.
    Get Our Country Back.

  293. Morva Wortley says:

    Like you Stuart I have also made my home in England, a nation that has had its difficulties over the years with different groups and nationalities, but essentially the England I settled in the late seventies rubbed along together. That England has gone now. By the day, fuelled by a media hell bent on “pushing the envelope” to its limits as part of a socio-economic experiment because it sells, we see a daily fracturing of social norms and values in England.

    Populism, on the rise throughout Europe, seen through the prism of Brexit is more I believe from an Anglo British perspective, a return to the past glory of a Colonial power. You get to the nub of the matter, as a good journalist can, but few attempt to these days. Time waits for no one. Scotland’s time for decision will shortly arrive, almost uniquely getting a second chance. There will be no third chances…….

  294. Hamish100 says:

    Reading the Sunday National. A good read with good articles.

    Congratulations to YES Elgin for their striking billboards with their “Scotland CAN choose another path”.

    So why are we not having more across Scotland.

  295. Ken500 says:

    The Torues can’t break away theybare funded by the U.K. Tory Party and all the crooks in the world with illegal donations. Breaking electoral Law. Few in Scotland would the Tory Party.legitimately. There average member is male and over seventy. They drag people off the streets to stand. Bigots, and racist breaking the Representstive of the people’s Act. Giving false oath of witness to stand as proper representatives of the people. Even masons who belong to secret, exclusive, unequal misogynistic, racist and bigoted sectarian organisations. No open to all. Making false declaration and illegal signing.

    The SNP are so successful because they are funded by the members. Concerned citizens about how things are going. That is why can do the right thing, without fear or favour. The strength comes from the membership and equality. It needs even more. Especially for the Independence movement. They fund that as well. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Indepenence. Get one other to do the same. Over the line. It is won,

  296. Willie says:

    I hear the comments that Edinburgh is a great city – and so it is!

    It is certainly a tourist success and theirin lies a tale. Lots and lots of low wage jobs cleaning hotel room, serving in bars and restaurants and so on. All much needed, but the real success story is of course that the ownership and remittance of the majority of the corporate profits from the near billion pound tourist business goes out of the country.

    Now that is a Scottish success story – not.

  297. Footsoldier says:

    I agree we need to seize the moment at the right time but we are STILL not telling those to be won over what independence can do for us socially, economically, morally as sovereign country and how good it could be.

    Time for simple messages forget endless detail.

  298. Hamish100 says:

    Ottoman Empire

    We should always care about what happens with our southern neighbour. Many of us have relations and friends there. As for tearing themselves apart, I think you are bordering on the unacceptable. Are you T Robinsons wee brother?

  299. Ken500 says:

    Murdo Fraser wanted a separate Party affiliation. That is why Davidson won ‘leadership’ contest. Murdo is a bam. Along with most of tgevrest of them. Tomkins talks rubbish. He doesn’t even understand what he is saying. Neither does anyone else. Googlygook.

    Notice the Tories in Westminster shouting with loud affected voices. Thinking they are ace. Total lack of self awareness. The emperor wears no clothes. Thinking everyone will listen to their nonsense, That’s what it is a load of nonsense. Just havering.

    Vacant ignorant, arrogant annoying coupons They do not have a clue what they are doing. Ruining the economy again. Lying through and through They will have to have a GE they can lose. To get them out of the mess of their own making. That is what they usually do. Then the next lot are as bad. Filling their boots, illegally with loads of public money. Into even more debt. Sanctimonious cretins. They are a bunch of bams and that’s a compliment.

  300. Mike Cassidy says:

    How historically ironic that the Tory party should find itself infiltrated by extremists

    I wonder who is going to emerge as the Tory Derek Hatton?

  301. Two interesting items form a quick skim of the newspapers this am

    HM The Queen can apparently stop a soft Brexit – presumably that will be HM, The Queen of England — BUT hang on a minute what about asking Her Grace, The Queen of Scots to stop the Scottish nation being torn out of the EU against our Sovereign will.

    Two can play at that game! What ought one to do? A real conundrum for one’s Queenly head….

    Also I notice that teachers in a primary school in England have voted to take a £7,000 pay CUT to save their jobs as the school is so strapped for cash….
    At the risk of staring up another heated discussion, try telling our teachers that they haven’t been used as a political football.

  302. Breeks says:

    OT… I see from Rev’s Twitter that the 30 second clip promoting Scotland hasn’t met with the approval of Cat Boyd, Paul Sweeney or Ross Thomson. The cringe is strong in all three, but then we knew that.

    My immediate thought was the video is pretty innocuous and fairly reasonable for those type of things, and a million times better than the despicable Visit Scotland website promoting the slaughter of our wildlife as a “country sport”.

    Had to go and check didn’t I? Still doing it. Absolute puke… No wonder we get armed scumbags with learning difficulties coming here to murder tame goats for a laugh with high powered rifles. Visit Scotland is still saying that’s fine. Hey Scottish Government, why the fk are my taxes still paying for this endorsement of unnecessary bloodshed for recreation? Get f___ed Visit Scotland! Get absolutely f___ed!

  303. Brian Powell says:

    Meg merrilees

    Do you have a link for the English teachers pay cut? It would be much appreciated.

    In relation to public sector jobs, I think SNP in the Borders should really be pushing the message, ‘so the Tories want you to be like England? Have they asked your police, teachers, carers, fire service, GPs, doctors and nurses in the Borders if they will accept the pay and conditions of their counterparts in England?’

  304. PacMan says:

    Late to this article.

    Agree with other posters that this article and a lot of the comments are too negative.

    I’m from the west coast but always visit Edinburgh a few times a years. Edinburgh has always been full of tartan tat but I do think in the past couple of years the tackiness of is a lot less than it is now.

    Modern Edinburgh has always been the playground of the rich from both sides of the border. With globalism, it is now the playground of the rich from all over the world. Edinburgh was never representative of Scotland and never will be. This will become even more evident in the years to come as global tourism demands uniformity. In essence, Edinburgh will become like every other major city on the planet.

    As to immigration, don’t buy into the Tory hype that ‘we’ will be taking back ‘our’ borders. Freedom of movement will be part of any trade agreements signed by a post EU Britain. Even think tanks are saying it now, in particular the one with America.

    With this American trade agreement that will have freedom of movement, don’t believe for a minute that American companies investing over here will employ British workers used to 35 hour weeks, holidays and sick leave. Poor Latino’s, Hispanics and African Americans will be shipped up over to do the work at a lower rate.

    Okay going away from the article, things don’t look positive but as they the darkest is just before the dawn. I was speaking to a Tory colleague. I know that because he was spouting all this nonsense about the cost of referendums which could have paid to feed the poor in our society. However, he was scathing of the handling of the Brexit process and how bad the Westminster system is.

    I said previously that it may be an idea for the indy movement to be play a passive role and let events play out by themselves. The Westminster system is visibly showing how corrupt and useless they are. Give Westminster all the rope it needs to hang itself. There is no way that people can use the excuse of saying we are better together any more. That argument has been clearly blown out of the water with recent events and the are too clear in the public’s minds to be airbrushed out by the Tories and their enablers in the media.

    It has been a hard time with the indy movement since 2014 but this is the final push. Confidence and leadership is required. Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish government has shown this throughout this crisis.

    IMHO, events are fast moving out of control of everyone, including Westminster. As these events play out, it will result in the best opportunity to get independence that we will ever have.

    Keep positive and enjoy the mild spring weather now especially when there is more of it now the clocks have gone forward!!!

  305. Capella says:

    Joanna Cherry on the ball. GMS allowed Gerry Hassan to say that the SNP abstained and didn’t vote for their own policy – a CU. He then went on to refer to the SNP ushering in the Thatcher government in 1979.

    Nobody corrected these outright lies.
    Joyce Macmillan and Tom Harris also there with Isobel Fraser – balanced what?

  306. galamcennalath says:

    Joanna Cherry QC MP
    Hi @GerryHassan & @joycemcm on #bbcgms
    @theSNP did not support the customs union only #indicativevote option because #CU alone is NOT our party policy. We need #singlemarket too for #freemovement both @NicolaSturgeon & I have made that very clear!

    There is definitely a coordinated campaign to push the idea that customs union is SNP policy when quite clearly it isn’t and never has been. SNP want revocation with full single market as a fall back compromise.

    After all this time everyone should know this! The only credible policy plan, that by the SG, sets it all out. So why pretend differently? Why this attempt to reinvent history? Who’s coordinated it?

  307. Lanarkist says:

    Radio Shockland this morning around 8.15. Gerry Hussain throwing out interference like confetti. Telling listeners about SNP gifting the Tories power in 1979, how SNP abstained against their manifesto commitment to support Customs Union without linking it to the Single Market issue. Labours part in 79 was described as complicated and was drifted over, the curtains pulled closed.
    Gerry still hoping to prop up the Labour zombie.
    Aye Gerry, we see you!

  308. Brian Powell

    It’s on the BBC sunday papers item – scroll down through the front pages till you come to the Observer – alternatively stroll to the nearest newsagents on this lovely day and scan the front page – do we get the Observer in Scotland?

    Seems they have taken a 20% cut to protect the school.

  309. Capella says:

    @ galamcennalath – snap!

    You’re right, it is obviously co-ordinated. Possible reason is to enable Labour to persist in the lie that the SNP are responsible for the Thatcher government in 1979. Sunday Scotsman big front page warns the SNP not to find themselves on the wrong side of history (again hint hint).

    Second reason is that the HoC may end up settling for the CU / SM proposal which the Scottish Government put forward 3 years ago. How embarrassing that would be. Solution? Pretend the SNP never said that.

  310. Capella says:

    Link to BBCs Scottish front pages.
    Oddly, the “British” front pages are the top item on their website Home page. That’s a first.

  311. Tony Hay says:

    Gerry Hassan is a unionist pawn……should we expect any better from this individual?

  312. robertknight says:

    >6M 🙂

  313. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    the 30 second clip promoting Scotland hasn’t met with the approval of Cat Boyd, Paul Sweeney or Ross Thomson. The cringe is strong in all three, but then we knew that.

    They don’t like the accent. The BritNats certainly don’t like promotion of Scotland’s any shape of form. And for course they hate it’s political message about being open.

    I watched it the other day when Nicola tweeted about it. It’s not aimed primarily at a domestic audience, it’s for those elsewhere. The accent needs to be totally understandable, which it is. It needs to be in standard English, which it is. It’s also distinctly Scottish.

    I do wonder what it feels like to suffer from the cringe? Is it painful? Only for others.

  314. galamcennalath says:

    Capella says:

    Gerry Hassan to say that the SNP abstained and didn’t vote for their own policy – a CU

    Always wondered if GH was a ‘fifth columnist’. For anyone who follows politics to believe CU was SNP policy, you’d need to be thick as mince. I don’t think GH is thick, so his assertion would imply he’s up to no good!

    I’ve seen this false claim so often in recent days it has to be a coordinated smear.

    That’s the thing about lies, since they aren’t true they could say anything, random, different. But when the same lie keeps appearing, someone it driving it.

  315. Capella says:

    I can understand why unionists cringe at that video. It’s beautifully photographed, beautiful landscape, a charming young man with a distinctly Scottish accent and an invitation to visit.

    How awful! It isn’t even set in a run down housing estate with a huddle of junkies sharing a buckie. What kind of image is that to share around Europe?

    BTW – since they asked – I thought the accent was very Perth, like Ewan McGregor.

  316. Capella says:

    when the same lie keeps appearing, someone it driving it.

    I agree. But i don’t think the Labor party is clever enough to dream this up all by themselves. Isn’t that Australian spin doctor supposed to be working for the Tory/Labour Boris Johnston Party? Lynton Crosby?

  317. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

    “At the beginning of this century Welsh language was almost obsolete apart from rural areas because of the above factors.”
    What absolute bollocks. Might I suggest a visit yo any of the larger towns in North west Wales

  318. K1 says:

    Now very clear that Carlaw’s faux spat wi FM and subsequent misreporting and pushing of that narrative is all they’ve got in attempt to undermine SG/SNP. And that this is easily debunked….they’re firing blanks.

  319. Bob Mack says:

    @Robert Llewelln Tyler.

    Meant 1900 not 2000. However,the point stands. It is well documented by Welsh research into social patterns and history of Wales

  320. Patrick Roden says:


    “Yougov 2019 poll for Wales, assembly results”

    It looks like Labour is collapsing in Wales like they have already did in Scotland.

    Oh well, never mind!

  321. Frank Waring says:

    The EU cannot do a deal with the UK, unless the UK government speaks for the UK. The EU set last Friday as the last day by which the UK government could show that it speaks for the UK. The UK government failed this test. It follows that the UK will leave the EU on April 12th, unless by then the UK government convinces the EU governments (and the EU parliament, and the EU Council) that it has put in place a political process which will lead to the UK government becoming a ‘reliable negotiating partner’.
    I think that this means that the likely outcome is the UK leaving the EU on April 12, without a deal.
    If the Scots don’t choose independence at that point, they never will.

  322. McBoxheid says:

    I just visited my wife’s family in Osnabrück and was told that about 400 ex British Army, who like me married locally and live in Germany, have now got dual nationality and become half German to protect themselves from whatever brexit and its aftermath throws at them.

    I don’t know if I should do the same. will it affect my war pension? Who do you turn to for advice when not in the UK? I already asked the War Pensions Agency (WPA) and they said the didn’t know what will happen so cannot help in any way.

    Starting to get worried know. I think I might email the SNP, at least they will try to find out the legalities and how it will affect my Service Invalidity Pension (SIPS) and War Pension (WP).

    Anyone know anyone that have done this and what is their status? Do they have dual nationality now? Will it affect my SIPS or WP?

    I sincerely hope that independence comes soon so that Scotland can stay in or return to the EU as soon as possible.

  323. Fireproofjim says:

    Morva Wortley @9.24
    “Scotland’s opportunity will shortly arrive. Almost uniquely getting a second chance. There will be NO third chance”.
    Absolutely! That is why we HAVE to get it right next time, and why Nicola is biding her time. There is no point in having a referendum until we are pretty sure that we will win.
    Everything is aligning nicely in our favour with the obvious uselessness of the Westminster Government and I think Inderef2 will be this year and a declaration of intent will be soon.
    Patience everybody. It’s coming yet.

  324. Arthur Thomson says:

    There is too much unnecessary pessimism going on here. A huge amount has been achieved over the past ten years. Most importantly, the undermining of generations of conditioning by the Brits. Brexit has exposed the intrinsic incompetence of the Brits for all to see and that has reinforced the undermining of the notion of the Great British. We now have a core of half of Scotland’s population understanding that Scotland can and should be independent. We are not going to have a violent revolution because we are civilised – unlike the Brits. But nor are we ever going back in the box. We are going to grind the bastards down, as the saying goes.

    I am no sage but I still expect that there will be a second – confirmatory – referendum and that would serve Scotland’s interests. If I am wrong and Brexit actually happens then we will take whatever advantages come from that to further our cause but we will NEVER give up. If the uncivilized Brits put troops on the streets they will further expose what they really are – uncivilised, undemocratic and undesirable. That will serve our cause.

    It is truly sad that we cannot get to where we want to be in a straight line but that is the nature of life. Like any long journey, it can seem to be interminable and sometimes we can feel pretty rubbish about it. But we will get there and when we do the length of the journey will just be a bad memory.

    I will NEVER accept being dominated by the Brits nor anyone else for that matter regardless of how long it takes or how many obstacles are put in my path. I know that the decent people who use Wings will never give up either.I

    As to the three stooges who have criticised the video message from Scotland to the world – remember their names. They are Brits and they are working for the Brits to undermine Scottish independence.

  325. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gerry Hassan
    Your professorship in English nationalism is showing again deary.

  326. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gerry Hassan
    Want to go toe to toe with post-modern critical social theory, yah fanny?

  327. Cactus says:

    Hey Dorothy, ahm ah wanderin’ weegie… it’s good tae be here, looking SO forward to our independence, cheers for watching over 😉

    Ah can’t stop this feeling for Scotland

    And what a feeling it is!

  328. Liz g says:

    McBoxheid @ 11.49
    There a group called – Veterans for Independence –
    They might be able to point you in the right direction.
    The have a presence on Facebook!
    Good Luck

  329. jockmcx says:

    They said we should stay and lead the uk.
    We tried that.
    Now thier telling us to f off…good,

    …we will!

  330. ronnie anderson says:

    Cactus a’ve felt the Quickening fur along time noo an its only getting Quicker

  331. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

    Bob Mack I’m fully aware of the research undertaken on the Welsh language in Wales, having contributed towards it and Welsh was very much the language of mass urban communities in 1900 and remained as the primary language in the slate quarries of the north and the western part of the coalfield in the south throughout the twentieth century.

  332. sandy says:


    We, at last, declare independence. Who do we negotiate with? How long will it take for the Former UK (fUK), bearing in mind their wonderful attempt at Brexit, to form a government & be able to negotiate with us? Will we have them by the gonads?

  333. McBoxheid says:

    Liz g says:
    31 March, 2019 at 3:14 pm

    McBoxheid @ 11.49
    There a group called – Veterans for Independence –
    They might be able to point you in the right direction.
    The have a presence on Facebook!
    Good Luck

    Thanks very much Liz, I’m no longer on Facebook, after that selling info scandal, but I’ll try to find them by other means

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