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Wings Over Scotland

In with a bullet

Posted on December 08, 2014 by

The latest sales figures for newspapers in Scotland are out today, most of them showing the now-traditional hefty year-on-year declines. (The Scottish Daily Express was the biggest loser, shedding a hefty 14% of its readership in the last 12 months, with the Guardian, Daily Mirror and Daily Record close behind.)


What the stats throw into striking relief, though, is the pent-up demand for a Yes-supporting paper. Despite having been created in just three weeks on a shoestring budget and not being distributed by some of the biggest supermarket chains, The National – on the worst day so far recorded for its sales – would nevertheless crash straight into the chart in seventh place, already neck-and-neck with its 231-year-old sister paper The Herald and just a few thousand behind the Star and the Express.

The full ordered table is below.

The Scottish Sun: 232,541

Daily Record: 195,223

Scottish Daily Mail: 90,098

Scottish Daily Express: 45,918

Daily Star of Scotland: 40,161

The Herald: 37,728*

The National: 36,000 (worst single day’s recorded sales)

The Scotsman: 27,208*

The Times: 18,067

i: 17,823

Daily Telegraph:18,404 to 16,449

Daily Mirror: 16,150

The Guardian: 9,261

Independent: 2,517

Financial Times: 2,244

*six-monthly figures from August 2014

It’s an impressive start for a paper still finding its feet. It’ll be interesting to see if parent company Newsquest puts some money behind it, and what’ll happen if it does.

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184 to “In with a bullet”

  1. Morag says:

    I’m noticing more ordinary local Scottish news stories in todays edition, which is great. If I only wanted politics I’d just read online. A daily paper fulfils a different role and they seem to be realising that.

  2. Cath says:

    I’m finding I enjoy actually having a physical daily paper again. Even getting back into cryptic crosswords. If it starts having TV pages it’ll be perfect.

    Really struggling to find the Scotsman at all in Glasgow these days!

  3. gillie says:

    I haven’t bought a paper for years, but with The National I relearning how to enjoy newsprint all over again.

    Mind you the crossword is a bit of a bugger at times.

  4. Scott says:

    I wonder what the longer term impact on The Herald might be. I’ve bought it regularly for years but not at all since the launch of The National.

  5. Brian Powell says:

    Sad wee bit of girning from the Guardian there!

  6. themadmurph says:


    do those figures include the online sales?

  7. muttley79 says:

    No real surprise there. The fear that greeted the launch of the National by unionists in the MSM was very amusing in itself. The sudden appearance of a daily independence supporting newspaper in Scotland prompted accusations of it being a “McPravda”, and other wonderfully deranged taunts and smears. You could not make up the Scottish political scene in 2014. To declare support for Scottish self government and self determination you are almost invariably called a Nazi or a fascist. What a bizarre situation we find ourselves in here in Scotland.

  8. Jim Duthie says:

    According to the link you put in, the 36,000 figure is an estimate and not recorded sales. Can you get details of actual sales from Richard Walker?

  9. Chic McGregor says:

    Glad to see the crossword. It’s not too bad, although I got a couple of Friday’s clues ‘wrong’ (apostrophes because they still fitted the clue).

    Does that figure include the >10,000 paying for the on line version?

  10. Capella says:

    I hadn’t bought a newspaper for years apart from the occasional Guardian. But the National is now a real pleasure to read with good articles, the cartoon and crossword.It will get better as more features are added. So great news about circulation figures.

  11. chalks says:

    I only bought a couple last week, I didn’t like the Labour stories, I give the square root of fuck all about them.

    The Land reform one was good and I’ve bought the salmond one today

  12. David says:

    @ themadmurph , from the Guardian article, it looks like the National had an EXTRA 11,000 online subscriptions. This is in addition to the average 44,000 physical copies sold every day.

    So the above figures appear to be only for physical sales, not for online copies of any of the newspapers.

  13. John Sellars says:

    It will also be interesting to see what happens if/when the advertisers move their revenue to The National. How will the rest of the pack respond?

  14. Helena Brown says:

    We are sorry National but we are stuck at home today waiting on the plumber, so you will be one down. Normal service will be resumed tomorrow.
    Enjoying having a paper again and think it is going from strength to strength.

  15. muttley79 says:

    O/T I see that there is a co-ordinated push by SLAB types to push the 1979 ‘we were stabbed in the back by the SNP’ myth again. On Gerry Hassan’s Twitter, Red Baron Foulkes and councillor Alex Gallagher (otherwise known as “Braveheart” on LPW’s blog) are droning on about the SNP letting Thatcher in for 18 years. Yes, that is right, the SNP alone were responsible for Labour’s rigged 1979 devolution referendum, their shambles of a government that was the Callaghan administration, and their losses in 1979, 1983, 1987 and 1992. All apparently the fault of the SNP!! 😀 😀

    To show the quality and talent SLAB possess here is the Red Baron’s exchange with Gerry Hassan:

    Gerry HassanPre-79 Callaghan abandoned full employment, gave priority to inflation & embraced monetarism. Lab laid ground for Thatcherism.

    George Foulkes
    You are wrong. But even if you were right how does that excuse SNP treachery voting for Thatcher? 😀 😀

    Gerry Hassan
    ?Maybe u should know Lab history. Callaghan 76 Lab conf ‘you cant spend your way out of recession’ & abandoned full employment.

    Gerry Hassan
    Here is direct link to Callaghan’s explicit embracing of monetarism 1976 speech.

  16. mogabee says:

    I’m loving the change to my morning. I now delay brekkie until I collect The National.

    Brilliant watching the paper grow, practically daily now.????

  17. think again says:

    At a rough calculation if only two people read each copy then nearly 1.5 million people still read unionist papers. The fall in sales at the Record is welcome but surely by now they are alienating about half of their readership at least on the politics front, so the size of the fall is not that great.

    Still it is nice to be able to read a paper that deals in positives rather than the most outrageous lies and spin. Good luck to the National and keep improving.

  18. Onwards says:

    It’s great to see the National included in the BBC online ‘what the papers say’ section.
    Refreshing change to get a bit of balance there.

  19. alexicon says:

    I have subscribed to the nationals online edition, but it is in page view. I don’t really like the lay out of page view as it is a wee bit too busy. I prefer to old fashion way, if there is one, of reading the news online, the same way as the Herald does at the moment.
    Looking for pointers here!!!
    It is within all our interest that we ask for the national at every shop or supermarket and buy a copy.
    The MSM will crow until the cows come home if this daily is deemed a failure.
    Go out and buy.

  20. heedtracker says:

    Its a stunning start but what a huge market they have. That list has no Scots local news papers but they are all raging NO, vote Red and Blue Tory silly little Scotland rags. The Press and Journal sells a million a minute to angry rich old union jocks and wealthy retired English Tory boys frae Aberdeen’s sleepy millionaire stacked burbs to Banchory, up Deeside, the Buchan coast, Orkney and Shetland etc so has a huge impact on independence voters.

    Mind you, Alex Salmond now has a new column in the Fit Like Times so its all about comprise when it comes to buying execrable teamGB press’s excrement, hold your nose, hand over your hard earned to a very creepy trade:D

  21. Lollysmum says:

    I’m only sorry that I can’t get a paper version in England so have to make do with digital. Oh well, can’t have everything I guess.

    Well done the National! Worth waiting for.

  22. Papadox says:

    Where does the Beano & Dandy fit in?

  23. themadmurph says:

    Thanks @David for the clarification and information.

    I might start buying the physical copy too and leave it lying around for others to read.

  24. alexicon says:

    Btw Stu.

    Could you not add the national to your list of links above?

  25. themadmurph says:

    @Helena Brown,

    I think you can a single copy online. Certainly when I subscribed it had choices ranging from 1 copy to the annual one I took out!

  26. themadmurph says:

    sorry, the above should have read – you can buy a single copy!

  27. Devorgilla says:

    @muttley. Good to see that Hassan is challenging SLAB types. On Twitter feed.

  28. Capella says:

    O/T There’s also a good article in the Sottish Statesman today about the SNP and Plaid attempting to block the fracking bill. Interesting in that it goes into the mechanics of Westminster bills to illustrate how mendacious the whole process is, i.e. hidden within an “Infrastructure Bill”.
    Apart from George Monbiot, there’s little prospect of this type of issue ever being made clear to the average Scottish reader relying on hard copy. Hope the National also tackles it.

  29. Macart says:


    Yep, definitely… ooft. 🙂

    One in the eye for the media.

  30. Democracy Reborn says:

    The Alan Cochrane Diaries (contd.)

    October 2014

    “Had lunch with Richard Walker. We discuss indyfef & aftermath. I say ‘bet you never thought you’d hear me saying this, Richard, but there’s a gap in the market for an indy supporting quality daily. I think you should go for it.’ He muses for a second. ‘My goodness Alan, you’re right! II think we will!'”

  31. Dr Jim says:

    Also it might be remembered that Distribution of Papers does not always equate sales, The Daily Record gives a huge percentage of it’s papers away relying on Advertising to make up for lack of sales, ask any Newsagent how many are returned unsold, but it looks good to have a great pile lying there the perception being, it must be popular if there’s a lot, whereas, in the case of The National if you dont get one quick, chances are you wont get one and that can’t be anything but good for future demand..i hope..

  32. dcomerf says:

    It’s really not being promoted online as far as I can see too. See – nothing. Also nothing in the “Our Colleagues” bit at the bottom of the Herald site where we can link to “The Scottish Farmer” or “Scottish Horse”, but not the National.

  33. muttley79 says:

    I see from Wings Twitter that John McTernan is being tipped as Labour candidate for Edinburgh South in the Scotsman. McTernan would be the last candidate you would want. Expect the SNP are fascists/Nazis schtick to be heavily prominent if McTernan stands.

  34. A.N.Surgent says:

    Glad that the National doing well, hoping it goes from strength to sterngth. Good to know that others are having a hard time with the crossword.

    The HOL is complaining that the champagne in wasteminister might be of an inferior quality due to change of supplier or some such thing. Once again our lords and masters show where their priority`s lie.

  35. kininvie says:

    It’s Ian Brotherhood’s turn on the crossword today, and a bit harder than last week’s…But I won’t be beaten by an outright leftie! 🙂

  36. Brian Fleming says:

    Cath says:
    8 December, 2014 at 12:35 pm
    Really struggling to find the Scotsman at all in Glasgow these days!

    Cath, don’t worry, it’s not worth the effort.

  37. proudscot says:

    Keep the statistical facts coming, RevStu. Yours are the ones I pay most attention to, as most if not all those produced by pro-Union sources are very suspect in my opinion.

  38. Another Union Dividend says:

    Its not Edinburgh South Mc Ternan is heading for, its Edinburgh South West to replace Darling.

    Edinburgh South has Mr expenses Ian Murray £189,015.53 in 2013 / 14 on top of his salary as its red Tory MP who on 26 March when he and other Scottish Labour MPs, including Alistair Darling, Jim Murphy and Sheila Gilmore voted in favour of further Tory welfare cuts.

  39. Nation Libre says:

    It kind of makes you wonder though why they didn’t just provide balanced articles in The Herald?

  40. fred blogger says:

    what i like about buying it is the symbolism of buying it, that one is greeted as a comrade by yes voting kiosk workers, like a knowing smile of unity, to the cause.
    as if, suddenly we know each other far better than we did before.
    nothing needs to be said, warmth melts ice, a silent cheer lets rip.

  41. gillie says:

    The National Crossword:

    26 Across – Powdery chanteuse (5)

    Can anyone help?

  42. fred blogger says:

    great the slabs think that people speaking their minds and letting them know how they feel is intimidation AND they have the nerve to say ‘we’re listening, we know you want change’.
    i’ve news for you buster ‘we are the change’.

  43. Roberto Esquierdo says:

    NO your chart is wrong The Daily Record say they have the largest sales and readership and if they say it then it is true. The Daily Dandy never tells LIES.

  44. Edulis says:

    I hate to admit it but I am finding the double effort of keeping up with the ‘National’ and my usual range of on-line blogs is proving problematical.

    However, I now have the luxury of choice. Slowly but surely it is bound to change the zeitgeist in preparation for 2015 GE and the future Indyref.

  45. Morag says:

    I went to see the new Hunger Games film last night. I remember when I read the books thinking that the role of the media (in this case broadcast media) within power struggles was a main theme of the author’s. At that time I didn’t really link this to Scotland in particular.

    But watching the film in today’s climate it was inescapable. Both sides struggling to get their preferred take on events on-screen and in front of the population. Makeup and makeovers and image consultants being as important as actual fighting or strategy.

    In the film and the novel both sides are at it. The rebels are having to fight to get their version on the airwaves, but they’re not missing a trick in the image projection stakes. “Say it, Katniss, ‘District Thirteen is alive and well and so am I!'” What you don’t see is any point where the rebels realise that they need to fight the Capital’s media domination with its own weapons. They’re past that and actually doing it.

    And yet even while I was sitting in the cinema I was seeing the Capital’s news teams as Jackie Bird and Sally Magnusson, with Jack Foster, James Devoy et al as the rebel team trying to get a similar act together to compete in the battle of the air.

    Before the Yes campaign kicked off we were told that we’d never get the media to put our point of view forward and we’d just have to go round them and under them with all these conversations that were going to convert people by the million. But it doesn’t work that way, in a time when people put sop much faith in what they see on a screen and read on a printed page. A long, persuasive conversation can soon be undone by a copy of the Mail and a BBC news bulletin. (There’s a reason why people trying to push wacky points of view turn them into YouTube videos.)

    We need our own media, just like the rebels in the Hunger Games world have their TV cameramen and producers and scriptwriters fighting alongside the actual troops. We can’t get by without this.

  46. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Alexicon

    There is no point putting a link to The National on Wings as the electronic version is paid only access. At 50p you cannot complain although the software used by them, I think pagesuite., is different from the Sunday Herald, which is PressReader.

    I prefer PressReader as you download your own copy of the paper, read it now or later because it is saved on your HD. The National one is a version of remote access so once you shut it down you have to reload it again. If you are out of a WiFi range, I use an iPad, you cannot read it again. Nuisance.

  47. Graeme Doig says:

    I’m buying the National every day even although i often don’t have the time to read it. Have found it to be an excellent read when i do.
    There has been a lot of comment that proceeds are going to a company promoting unionist propaganda in the Herald. There is no doubt this is the case. I would suggest, however, that whether the National is a success or not the Herald will still punt it’s unionist tosh.
    We therefor have a straight forward choice. We either support a ‘nationalist’ promoting paper, which we have complained for long enough didn’t exist, or we don’t and continue complaining we have no printed representation in the msn.
    I say support the National and show that there is an appetite for an independence leaning written press. It’s all part of the movement we have to promote in whichever medium and way we can.
    Oh and have i said ‘BUY THE NATIONAL!’

  48. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @gillie –

    I suspect Paula Rose may be able to help you with that one.

  49. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    WTF The Daily Mail at 90 K & the D. Express at 45 K. Just just goes to show there are still a lot of right wing minded A**eholes in Scotland.

  50. bookie from hell says:

    Scottish Daily Mail: 90,098

    must be the Sunday Post readers

  51. Another Union Dividend says:

    Mutley 79 @ 1.05 pm

    You know Labour is rattled when they keep digging up ancient history regarding the events 35 years ago. Thatcher was elected due to getting a majority of votes and seats in England. The Tories got two million more votes than Labour in England.

    Despite the rigged referendum in March 1979 producing a YES vote for a Scottish Assembly the Labour government refused to implement the majority wishes of the Scottish people.

    Too simplistic to blame the SNP for getting rid of the universally unpopular Callaghan Labour government in 1979. In fact the SNP Voting record in 1978/79 was 46.7% with Labour and 20% with Tories.

    A Liberal Labour pact had sustained Callachan since 1977. The Pact’s end was confirmed on 7 September 1978 by which time Callaghan was expected to call a general election, but instead he decided to continue as leader of a minority government
    Like Gordon Brown in 2008, Callaghan had a chance to go to the country in October 1978 but “bottled” it after private polling data suggested a parliamentary majority was unlikely as the economy was in ruins.

    Following the Winter of Discontent with Union led strikes and power cuts there was absolutely no chance of Labour winning a general election even if they had stayed on to the bitter end in October 1979.

    On In March 28th 1979 the vital no confidence vote was lost through the absence of Sir Alfred Broughton, Labour MP for Batley, who was too ill to attend and the unexpected non voting of two Irish republican MPs who normally supported Labour but felt that Labour had double crossed them on redrawing the political boundaries in Northern Ireland.
    In fact Gerry Fitt and Frank Maguire flew from Belfast to London expressly not to vote.

    The 14 Liberals also voted against Callaghan’s government.

  52. Harry McAye says:

    Sainsbury’s Hamilton today had a large pile of The National in one of the side panels of the news stand UPSIDE DOWN! I’ve never seen any papers displayed there upside down. And the Sunday Heralds yesterday were facing away from the public while the Sunday Mails and Suns next to them facing towards shoppers. Someone there is very anti-independence.

  53. Ronnie says:



  54. ben madigan says:

    @ gillie says:
    8 December, 2014 at 1:43 pm
    The National Crossword:

    26 Across – Powdery chanteuse (5)

    Dusty as in Dusty Springfield?

  55. alexicon says:



  56. RHenny says:

    Gillie – Haven#t got the paper to see how the letters fit, but how about ‘Dusty’?

  57. Robert Louis says:

    Great to see the sales of The national do well. This comes despite the best attempts of some vendors to seemingly inhibit sales, an example being McColls in Hanover Street Edinburgh, where all the papers are displayed – except the national, which is kept in a wee pile on the floor tucked beneath a shelf. Only by looking hard, could I find it.

    It is a great paper, and getting better every day.

    As regards the parent body, newsquest, it is interesting if you now look at their output as a whole – it is evenly balanced. For six days a week there is the Herald with the low quality Gardham pro britannia pish news coverage, and for five days a week you have the pro Scotland ‘The National’, and on sunday you have the pro Scotland, pro indy Sunday Herald. That actually balances out at six unionist and six pro Scotland, pro indy. Perhaps rather than this being a wee thing for them, in reality there are some very, very shrewd financial minds at newsquest. In effect their output now mirrors the referendum (close on 50/50).

    Buy ‘The National’. Sales will push the media to change.

  58. Jack Murphy says:

    alexicon at 1:09pm “It is within all our interest that we ask for the national at every shop or supermarket and buy a copy.
    The MSM will crow until the cows come home if this daily is deemed a failure.
    Go out and buy.”
    Agree—–this is our ONLY chance to balance,in part,the journalism defecit in Scotland.
    NO second bite at the cherry—-this is VERY SERIOUS—-go out and PHYSICALLY BUY The National EVERY weekday—-over the counter,at the mini/supermarket checkout,get the paper shop to deliver.
    It’s shop sales that REALLY matter.
    Digital on-line is also available if unable to do the above.

  59. Elaine Chisholm says:

    Hi Everyone,
    First post but just had to let you all know, Brother-in-Law lives in Whitehaven, Cumbria and has been able to get the National from day one in his local newsagent and he now tells me it is available in Tesco. He said the local newsagent has several people who buy it.

  60. alexicon says:

    Beat me to it Ronnie.
    @bugger. I also sometimes use an iPad, mini, but I can’t load it up on it for some reason.

  61. Kenlike says:



  62. X_Sticks says:


    “Dusty” surely if Ian’s doing the crossword?

    Regulars to O/T shouldn’t have any difficulty with that one!

  63. Graeme Doig says:

    Jack Murphy and Robert Louis

    Completely in agreement.

  64. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Alexicon

    If you buy it through your desktop or laptop and want a copy on the mobile, you have to pony up another 50p.

    The Sunday Herald on PressReader is only downloaded on my iPad because it is Sunday and I read it in bed.

  65. heraldnomore says:

    Having just been out for a couple of hours I come back to find this post and realise – I FORGOT TO PICK UP THE NATIONAL! And going out again means a 15 mile round trip to the nearest shop. Might need to be online edition today.

    And gillie, without having seen the rest of the crossword, would Dusty fit the bill?

  66. manandboy says:

    A little O/T

    McTernan standing in Edinburgh South. Why?

    John Patrick McTernan has had a good think about his future job prospects in his homeland – and probably elsewhere. He knows the poll figures inside out and can easily work out that his beloved Red Tory Party will no longer be needing a man of his back room talents.

    So with future employment prospects bleak, time to look for a new job. MP is an obvious choice.

    I should like to wish him …. nah.

  67. ben madigan says:

    @ gillie who asked at 1:43 pm
    The National Crossword:

    26 Across – Powdery chanteuse (5) Can anyone help?

    Dusty as in Dusty Springfield?

  68. Les Wilson says:

    Lets hope momentum keeps growing, it is high time the MSM were bitten back!

  69. gillie says:


    Now I feel stupid.

  70. Pix says:



  71. Devorgilla says:

    @muttley. McTernan for Edinburgh South? Good grief. What is wrong with standing MP Ian Murray for Labour? He has been a good consituency MP in Edinburgh South. I don’t agree with his unionism, but otherwise he is OK. Are knives out or what? Murray would stand a very good chance of re-election in Edinburgh South.

  72. Macart says:

    Ken and xsticks beat me to it.

    I reckoned Dusty too. 🙂

  73. Devorgilla says:

    Infrastructure Bill: MPs will vote on this later this week. Time to contact your MP and let them know. This is the legislation that will allow corporations to drill under your house below 300 metres depth without even telling you in order to frack. And also to fill the spaces left after extracting gas with ANY substance.

  74. Votadini Jeannie says:

    I’ve bought it a few times (usually skint) and been quite impressed so far, however I’m still a wee bit suspicious about why it was launched, and the fact that it’s owned outwith Scotland.

    so I’m waiting for the Scottish Independent to come along and see how it compares, and whether full Scottish ownership and control has any effect on the types of articles and stories we get to see.

    Won’t it be just great though having not one but two dailies that cater for our views?

  75. Graeme Doig says:


    Poor effort 😉 We should be crawling over broken glass to support … think i’ve taken that too far now. Time for a lie down 🙂

  76. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I reckoned Cilla

  77. TJenny says:

    Gillie – Haven#t got the paper to see how the letters fit, but how about ‘Dusty’?

  78. Devorgilla says:

    OK so it’s Edinburgh SW McTernan is pitching for. Had heard that city leader Andrew Burns was suggested earlier. Edinburgh SW is a hard call, Red and Blue Tories in abundance.

  79. TJenny says:

    Damn the time delay with posts. 🙁

  80. David McCann says:

    Re the 1979 Callaghan era.
    Here is a direct quote from Callaghan’s memoirs, “Time and Chance”,
    “ In his (i.e. Michael Cox, Labour’s Chief Whip) view, the difficulty within the (Labour) Party, was much greater than any from the Scottish National Party, and the Whip’s judgement was that the government could not rely on the votes of Labour members from the north if we moved to reject the Repeal Order……… we could lose the vote.”

  81. Aidan says:

    Enjoy reading The National and value it greatly. It’s not yet being actively marketed/promoted by Newsquest, as others have stated, nevertheless shows great potential. For the established MSM papers circulation seems the only way is down. They have to be worried. Recent defensiveness in articles within them exhibits that very clearly (eg: Guardian).

  82. David Mooney says:

    McTernan’s record of contribution to his employer’s success should stand him in good stead.

    He entered Downing Street in 2004, initially as a special adviser in the unit responsible for housing and regeneration policy, before becoming political secretary and director of political operations.

    He was seconded to the Scottish Labour Party in 2007, where he helped run its campaign for the Holyrood elections as the SNP came to power.

    He then worked as a special adviser at the Scottish Office, first for Des Browne and then Jim Murphy.

    In 2011, he was appointed Communications Director to Australian prime minister Julia Gillard, who was forced out of office two years later.

  83. Stoker says:

    Good to see the DR freefalling under the 200K point.

    Can anyone tell me if there is a separate UK list of sales figures? And if so, does the DR appear on it?

    I know what Stu’s article above states but i’ve been getting a wee niggly feeling that the DR is producing trumped up stats.

    Very nice to see ‘The Scotsman’ getting its ass well and truly kicked by the new kid on the block.

    Roll over Beethoven and tell Tschaikowsky the news.

  84. fred blogger says:

    powdery songstress, anyone?
    i saw her live in the 60’s, yes it was a mistake, i meant to see the stones, nevertheless she was impressive.
    sung fav ‘son of a preacher man,’ oh the irony.

  85. Moira Currie says:

    Why would anyone read the Sun? Reading age of 7 and only fit for wrapping tattie peelings in.

  86. Now's the Hour says:

    Astonishing that 90,000-odd buy the Daily Fail every day. No doubt they believe every word it prints too.

  87. fred blogger says:

    Now’s the Hour
    kept in a damp cupboard next to the wc it’s a god send, i tell you!

  88. JET JOCKEY says:

    In a super-market yesterday out of the corner of my eye I saw what must have been a no’er covering up the National with the daily record, he realized I had spotted his skulduggery. and fled before I could challenge him, You all know what to do now

  89. Suzanne says:

    Labour will blame the SNP for anything that’s going, so I pay them no attention. I’m wondering if they’re following the same “It’s Not My Fault Because” course of lectures that Nigel Farage appears to be attending. His no-show at a Welsh meeting was apparently all down to immigrants and an impassable M4.

    As for The National, I have an online subscription and am not paying too much mind to the eventual destination of the revenue. I’m just glad we have a national paper, soon to be joined by the Scottish Independent. We’ve waited too long for a voice or two in the meeja who will provide an alternative to the unionist drums. We have the Sunday Herald, the National, soon another, and rumours of further indy-minded media that I hope will be accessible to those who don’t live online like wot I do. LOL

    I noticed a whine on Twitter the other day, from someone who was aggrieved that the National would affect sales of the Scotsman. How I wept. With mirth.

  90. Fred says:

    Chucked the Herald after 35 years, like the National, no going back for the Fredster!

  91. Capella says:

    Would you mind NOT posting answers to the crossword! I haven’t got my copy yet and it’s something I look forward to. Still have 3 from Friday not solved. Oh well, it is cryptic after all.
    @ Moira Currie, someone on a thread months ago said that people buy the Sun & co to read the football and racing results. The wives read the celeb gossip. Then they take a look at the headlines only, not reading down the page to where they might discover how misleading the headlines are. Then they line the budgie cage. This may be an unkind stereotype!

  92. Cuilean says:

    My nephew (mid twenties) buys the Sun but is a member of the SNP (lately joined) and a huge YES supporter, through & through. A lot of people, like my nephew, don’t see the connection between ‘their’ paper & how they vote or they do see the connection, but simply compromise their political leanings for some other need e.g. price, sports, etc. I was round for dinner & picked up his Sun by the fire in horror, saying, ‘What the hell do you buy the Sun for?’ I got a sheepish look and a shrug. ‘I know, I know’, he said, ‘it’s just a habit & I like their sports pages, plus its only 30p’. Looking through it, altho’ very bulky, I’d say most of that bulk is advertisements; hence its cheap price. The good news is that at least we know all The National buyers are, for the time being at least, all YES voters but the good news is that not all of the other papers buyers are NO voters. And don’t worry, I’ll keep working on my nephew to switch papers!

  93. jimnarlene says:

    I’ve bought the “National”, every day, since it was launched. It may not be perfect and it shares an inglorious stable but, we need keep buying it, if only to counter other less favourable media.

  94. @Votadini Jeannie

    “so I’m waiting for the Scottish Independent to come along and see how it compares, and whether full Scottish ownership and control has any effect on the types of articles and stories we get to see.”

    Got any more info on this please? First I’ve heard of it. Thanks in advance.

  95. Haggis Hunter says:

    Reading the National is like peeking out of a dark dungeon and seeing the real world outside, which is not the world our jailers tell us about!

  96. gerry parker says:

    That’s strange Rev. The daily record my wife bought on Saturday says quite plainly on the 2nd page.

    “Every day, 649,000 people read the record”

  97. HandandShrimp says:

    I like the National. It is tabloid format but it isn’t a tabloid in the true red top sense. It is more like the i or similar tabloid format broadsheet. In that sense it will inevitably compete in the Herald arena and 45,000 to 50,000 circulation, once fully established, would be a reasonable target to aim for.

    The Daily Wail really is a tabloid version of OK magazine with loads of pictures of Royals and Celebs but with the added bonus of Al Murray like rants about immigrants (without the satire) a paper pitched at the blue rinse brigade.

  98. G says:

    @Bugger (the Panda)

    Pagesuite allows you to export as PDF. Then you can open in iBooks. After that, there’s no internet access required. I read The National on my iPad every day by doing this.

  99. boris says:

    The National Cryptic crossword is killing me. Could we please have a crossword quickie designed to be done whilst I’m in the cludgie.

  100. Roberto Esquierdo says:

    Gullibility is a failure of social intelligence. So therefore people are easily conned and tricked. The Daily Record and Daily Mail and Scotsman have been successful in this.My thoughts on the National are one of suspicious reservation. Why would an English owned Paper support Scottish independence?. What is the motive?

  101. Macart says:

    @ Handandshrimp

    Its what we used to call broadloid in the biz, though back then they used what was known as the Berliner format to print those papers. Not a common size though these days.

  102. SquareHaggis says:

    The Liberals have been fast off the mark with home delivery of thier 2 pager “The Gordon News” today.
    Headline “Gridlock” “We’ve been let down by SNP”
    Alex Salmond’s SNP V’s Malcolm & Christine’s LibDems scattershot throughout.
    Crap, basically.

  103. HandandShrimp says:

    On Foulkes

    It beggers belief that Labour can still rant on about 1979 but never once mention Cunningham who, against Callaghan’s wishes, went ahead with the 40% amendment thus ensuring that a Yes vote for devolution fell by the wayside and guaranteed the withdrawal of SNP support for Labour. They also forget to mention that Cunningham then left Labour to help form the SDP with Owen and Co. thus ensuring that the anti-Tory vote was split for years. Labour only really got their act together when the Tories fell into division over the EU in the 90s becoming the “party divided” that the electorate no longer trusted. In truth the Tories are still there it is just that Brown and subsequently Miliband have underwhelmed the voters leaving both parties fighting for percentage points in the low 30s.

  104. Fireproofjim says:

    Robert Esquierdo
    The National and Sunday herald are both owned by an American group, not English.
    Like all good capitalists they saw a gap in the market, with a million Yes voters eager for a paper to support independence. They have filled that gap. More power to their elbow. I hope the make a lot of money as the paper develops and the sales rise.
    We REALLY need this.

  105. Luigi says:

    Harry McAye says:

    8 December, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Sainsbury’s Hamilton today had a large pile of The National in one of the side panels of the news stand UPSIDE DOWN! I’ve never seen any papers displayed there upside down. And the Sunday Heralds yesterday were facing away from the public while the Sunday Mails and Suns next to them facing towards shoppers. Someone there is very anti-independence.

    I’ve also seen that – sneaky barstewards. I made an effort to sort them. More worrying is the fact that the National is still not available in many stores.

  106. Chic McGregor says:

    Bit of a bugger today. 25 Ac was a word I’ve never heard of, fortunately there were enough other letters and likely blocked ones to look it up in the dictionary.

  107. Seanny D. says:

    I have not bought a daily paper in years. I read the first one and liked it and now buy it. Reminds me a bit of ‘I’ the Independant off shoot. It could possibly ended up a concise version of the Herald but with a pro indy view. So far so good. Actually enjoy reading a daily again after getting frustrated with the bias in other papers. I don’t want it to be an SNP newsheet though and hope it maintains its independance from the political parties.

  108. Votadini Jeannie says:

    @Dave Beveridge

    Hi Dave,

    Here is a link to their website, although there’s only a sign-up for a mailing list at the moment.

    There is much more on their Facebook page, which can be found here:

    or you can follow their launch progress on twitter:

    It’s been in the pipeline since October and will be fully Scottish-owned and controlled. I think they’re just ironing out some legal stuff at the moment. They’ll be starting as as weekly then building up.I guess it’s much quicker and easier for an existing publisher to just put out a new title than it is for a brand new company to get up and running.

    Still, THREE indy papers!

  109. David McCann says:

    @gerry parker
    Its a not too clever marketing ploy, where they take the circulation figure and multiply it by a figure which mirrors the average family who may read the one copy.
    BTW the figures are complied by ABC (Audit Bureau of Circulation) and reproduced by media sites like Allmedia Scotland
    If you go to this site there is also an interesting article by Iain McWhirter about media bias.

  110. Roberto Esquierdo says:

    Fireproofjim I was always led to belief that capitalist American corporations supported continuity of the Union

  111. David McCann says:

    RE the Scottish Independent newspaper.
    There is and has been since 1926 a very good monthly pro independence newspaper called THE SCOTS INDEPENDENT, which I hope would be supported by all Wingers.
    It also has a website

  112. Dougie Bee says:

    Called in for my National this morning on the way to work to be told they haven’t arrived said I would call in later..back in later to be told they had been there all along and someone had put a Daily Retard on top of them..I told him to make sure it don’t happen again..but to be doubly sure I will check myself…xxx

  113. Yesitis says:

    I like the National.

    I do that thing where you read it whilst making sure people see what you are reading. I know…but I try to keep it subtle, and it`s all for a good cause.

    I`m sure it will improve and mature, and maybe become a little less ‘stiff’ and awkward. As has been mentioned earlier, a little less absolute focus on politics and a little more involvement of certain ‘well kent’ faces (no names *coughs*) and a lighter, more personable side, will result, in my opinion, in an increasingly successful paper.
    But, as it is…

    I like the National.

  114. gerry parker says:

    Thanks David.

  115. Fireproofjim says:

    Robert Esquierado
    Certainly the U.S. government wanted to continue the Union, but only came out for it after a bit of not too subtle prodding by David Cameron. As for American businesses, like “Newsquest” they are quite happy to print a paper like the National if it makes money. Politics doesn’t come into it. In America they print rabid Republican papers and Democrat ones too. First amendment to the constitution – free speech and all that.

  116. McBoxheid says:

    I get the online version of the National and download the PDF version as I find it is a better format to read.
    Contratulations on a refreshingly honest approach in this day of MSM lies and twisted agenda. It is far from an SNP paper, they get critisised when due, but its not SNP bad liebour good.

  117. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Pagesuite allows you to export as PDF. Then you can open in iBooks. After that, there’s no internet access required. I read The National on my iPad every day by doing this.”

    Exactly what I do. It’s a faff, but it’s vastly better than trying to read it on iPad from the website.

  118. AyeAlba says:

    O/T. I’ve waited as long as my rage will allow but cant hold it any longer and if I get a row from Stu, then so be it.

    Watching The Daily Politics today and they had a couple of “journalists” on talking about Alex Salmond coming back to the commons and this long streak of pish said that they(presumably the sewer rats that infest the cess-pit that is westminster) were wishing Alex would just go away and DIE.

    I am shaking and crying with rage. Who the fuck do they think they are to say something like that about ANYBODY never mind the ex First Minister of Scotland.

    Until now I’ve still been paying my license because I’m just a wee old wifie living on my own and a bit scared of men and maybe cops coming to my door demanding entry etc but after that they can all go and fuck themselves.

  119. Lollysmum says:

    @ AyeAlba

    That is a disgusting thing to say about anyone let alone AS, the best politician Scotland has ever had. I didn’t see it as I cancelled my TV license.

    Don’t worry though, I’m very sure Alex will get many opportunities to rub their noses in it & he will enjoy every moment 🙂

  120. Cag-does-thinking says:

    I would buy the National purely if it just annoyed the rest of the MSM. It’s not a bad paper at all and it has promising prospects. I’ll certainly buy it all the way till the election and I’m partly so behind it because of the people who are against it. I can’t worry to much about where the profits end up if it does further the aim of an independence viewpoint. You can see from almost all of the television output that the BBC and Establishment really HAVe to monster Alex Salmond on every occasion because they are frightened of him and Scottish nationalism. Compare and contrast their coverage of Nigel Farage and UKIP and you can see the difference between their fear of real democracy in Scotland and their touting of what could best be described as a Uk isolationist party.

  121. Bob Sinclair says:

    The clue about ragamuffins, vagabonds, etc. 15 letters. This is the only one I’m stumped on (quiet day at work). Help.

  122. Footsoldier says:

    gillie says:

    “The National Crossword:

    26 Across – Powdery chanteuse (5)

    Can anyone help?”

    Dusty (Springfield)

  123. John Carrell says:

    I subscribed to the first week of the National, then heard nothing from them. I buy it in the shops but you would think they would have got in touch with the subscribers to see if they wanted to again.

  124. gerry parker says:


    Don’t you be afraid of anyone coming to your door girl. Don’t even tell them your name, they’ve no right to put you into a state of fear and alarm, and if anyone coming to your door does, then contact the police right away. Lots of advice available on why you don’t need a license, and how to deal with people who turn up at your door saying you don’t appear to have one.
    Join the rest of us.

  125. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    Mild mannered retired lady finally loses it.

    post of the week, already.


  126. call me dave says:

    National getting better everyday. I have bought everyone so far.

    Bob Sinclair:

    Crossword: 25 across.

  127. Paula Rose says:

    I was going to put this comment on Off topic but it seems to be relevant to this page…

    Ian darling mwah mwah, a little bit harder and all over in twelve minutes but I loved every bit. Many of the clues were top notch and 26 across – oh sweetie xxx

  128. Bob Sinclair says:

    Call me dave,

    Thanks I’ll file that under my list of words used to describe the LabLibCons in future.

  129. Gallowglass says:

    Excellent news. Even better is that Greg Moodie’s cartoons will be featuring.

    They were one of the highlights of the campaign for myself.

    Onwards and upwards as they say.

    Congratulations to staff at the National for giving the Hootsman a good stuffing.

  130. msean says:

    Strange reading a newspaper after almost a year,almost got out of the habit,being biased has shrunk the possible market. The National is filling a gap in the market left by the rest who don’t need money.

  131. Croompenstein says:

    @AyeAlba – I took a look and no wonder you lost it, pig ignorance.

    start at 25 mins in..

  132. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

    There is no Scottish media, but there is politically vested interest media distribution in Scotland, owned by Englishmen living in England. They could all be broke, but would be illicitly funded by the British state in return for the propaganda platform they provide. Getting readers to pay for their own brainwashing requires two contents, sport, and sensational gossip, real or created. On the referendum I have never experienced the level of devious manipulation of the media, and I have worked on political campaigning in Australia, I am also Rupert Murdoch’s first lithographic web offset apprentice and have held management positions in three printing plants in Australia. After forty years in the industry I feel qualified to comment on what laughingly represents as newspapers and tv media in Scotland. Part of the description newspaper is real for they are still printed on paper.
    On the bright side young people don’t read newspapers, and by the look of it young Scots are determined to reclaim their Nation from the old Royalists, Conservatives, BritScots, and any other bastards I have missed. It is beyond me how any Scot having won the lottery of life could demean themselves by thinking off, or calling themselves British. No such homogenous people exist, it is purely a political construct in the absence of a distinctive bonding racial identity.
    PS I have taken an instant distain towards John Boothman BBC Scotland News
    Just watching and listening to him is difficult, as I have an overwhelming urge to take a shower to feel clean again.

  133. Macart says:

    @ AyeAlba

    Lady, you need fear no one. If anything the should be terrified of you.

    Well said.

  134. Graeme Doig says:


    Thanks but no thanks. I’m still getting over tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber from the other nights paper review.

  135. David says:

    It’s probably just me being an anti idiot box guy(TV) but I wouldn’t like to see anything related to what’s coming on the box in the National. There are plenty of written work items out there relating to it.

    I got a 6 month online subscription but because I stopped reading the papers about 10 years ago I’ve been finding it hard to get into reading a newspaper again, I’m a week behind lol, working on it though.

    Keep up the great work guys and gals of the National.

  136. Nation Libre says:

    Can someone please get that Daily Politics clip onto youtube as it can’t be viewed outside of the UK

  137. Braghadeanach says:

    Does the Co-op chain stock the National, I can never get it in Castle Douglas?

  138. Stoker says:

    @ AyeAlba,

    Have a wee look and read.

    If you need to ask for any advice and/or help just give me a shout.

  139. Thomas Mitchell says:

    Wish you could download onto kindle, like I used to do with the herald

  140. MorvenM says:


    Fill in the online declaration on the BBC website saying you no longer watch live TV. That way, they shouldn’t bother you for another two years. If you do get a threatening letter, contact them again, as they’ll have forgotten to update their records. They’re a bunch of incompetent idiots.

    If anyone does turn up, (unlikely, given the amount of cancellations they’ll now have) you don’t have to talk to them or let them in. I’m a wee auld wifie too and don’t let anybody in uninvited.

    Totally agree with your post. All the best.

  141. Betty Boop says:

    On holiday in Glasgow today and found the National in Morrisons, prominently displayed. Nice to find it there as they didn’t have it last week. Bought today’s in Ayrshire in my local Londis which also had a large sign on the door advertising the fact that they stocked the National.

    I hope this paper survives. The world viewed from Scotland – it speaks my language!

  142. Silverytay says:

    snooker loopy!adeanach
    The Co-op chain does stock the National , I get mine from the Co-op in Newarthill and my Son manages a store in Perthshire and they stock it .
    If you are having trouble getting it at your local Co-op it might be the manager who is refusing to stock it , I am meeting up with my Son this weekend and will check if managers have the authority to decide what they stock .

  143. Andy A says:

    John Carrell says:

    I subscribed to the first week of the National, then heard nothing from them. I buy it in the shops but you would think they would have got in touch with the subscribers to see if they wanted to again.

    You get it at the same link that you got it for the first week. You can sign up for just one edition or anything up to a year’s subscription. I like the way the subscription works – there’s the flexibility to access online editions when I want or choose to purchase the hard copy one when I want.

  144. Barney Thomson says:

    Will people please stop giving the answers to the National crossword. I had intended to attempt it later as an aid to slumber.

    It’s enough to drive me to the Sco…, Her.., Daily Re…, ??? No it’s not.

  145. AyeAlba says:

    @Lollysmum; gerry parker; Croompenstein; Stoker and MorvenM

    Thank you all for your support. I’ve calmed down a bit now lol tho the rage is still bubbling away underneath the surface.

    @Bugger(the panda) and Macart

    Your posts made me laugh out loud. The perfect tonic!

    I’ve put a complaint to the BBC. Doubt it’ll do any good but I couldn’t let it just pass and say nothing. I’ve also cancelled my Direct Debit for the license fee and will fill in the declaration later. Again, thanks all.

  146. Graeme Doig says:

    Betty Boop

    “I hope this paper survives. The world viewed from Scotland – it speaks my language!”

    You auditioning for a job in a promotional for it 😉

    Totally agree. We have to influence the market by supporting this paper.

  147. Ann says:

    National all sold out in the local CO-OP today.

    Quite enjoyed today’s paper and is definately improving day on day.

  148. Stoker says:

    @ AyeAlba & MorvenM,

    You can legally stop them from coming anywhere near your home.

    I would not recommend contacting them Online because that does not give you the option to remove the implied rights of access.

    If you contact them by phone and inform them that you no longer need a TV Licence because you no longer watch tv programmes as they are being shown (you don’t need a tv licence to own a tv).

    Then inform them that you also “want to remove the implied rights of access.”

    They will probably put you through to another “department” and you simply inform them that you “want to remove the implied rights of access to your home.”

    They will then inform you that they will confirm that in writing to you within the next 10 working days.

    It’s as simple as that and by law they have to adhere to your wishes and they cannot approach your home or they will be breaking the law.

    If, after doing that, you receive any uninvited visits from their agents (a company called Capita) to your home, under no circumstances do you let them in.

    Don’t answer any of their questions, ask him/her who they are, once they state they are from TV Licensing just politely but firmly state that “the implied rights of access to this property have been removed now go away before i call the police.”
    Then close your door.

    Or, if you can see who’s at your door without opening it and you don’t know them, just shout through the door rather than opening it – same rules apply – don’t answer any questions, confirm who they are then inform them that the implied rights of access to your home have been removed and if they don’t leave immediately you will call the police.

    If he/she does not leave immediately you should phone the police without hesitation and explain the situation, tell them you’re on your own and frightened. Knowing this the police will probably react very quickly.

    However it turns out and whoever it was will never be in a hurry to darken your doorstep again.

    Remember, never give or confirm any of your personal details to anyone you don’t know and don’t answer any of their questions.

    By doing it this way the law is on your side.

  149. Ann says:


    Re Hungergames. Myself and my daughter went on Friday and I as I watching it I said to my daughter “You know this reminds me of what happened during the referendum and also what is happening at Westminster right this minute”.

    You know. Pooling and sharing. Sectors 2-13 you all pay your wee bit and we give some of it back to you.

  150. K1 says:

    Wee tip, any coffe shops/cafes’ you frequent ask them to stock The National. I’m happy to see it beginning to show up in some roon my way…we’re the customers they should be happy to oblige 🙂

  151. fred blogger says:

    listen to the story on wings twitter feed via the independent lbc radio, and how hard the caller had to push to get his message across of what he is suffering now coz of austerity cuts.
    get rid of all tories and vote for scotland, enough is enough.

  152. Graeme Doig says:


    I’m doing the same. Mrs D thinks i’m mad 🙂

    We can only influence our culture and political landscape by going out and influencing our culture and political landscape.

  153. Paula Rose says:

    @ Barney Thomson – there are only two answers available here dear.

  154. K1 says:

    Quite! Graeme 🙂

  155. K1 says:

    Just reading it made me greet fred blogger…heartbreaking, shouldn’t be like this ever!

  156. Morag says:

    Ann, you can take the Hunger Games parallel too far, but I think it’s valid to some extent. I honestly didn’t notice when I read the books a couple of years ago, but after what we’ve all just been through it really struck me. (And I was there with a No-voting friend, patronising BT lady sort, bored, don’t talk about it, so I couldn’t even raise that aspect afterwards when we were discussing it.)

    I remember various aspects of the books being criticised, several years back, and even then I said that what the author was saying about the role of media in propaganda and the importance of image and presentation was both original and important. Now, though, we’ve had an object lesson. It was quite scary the way I suddenly “saw” Jack Foster and James Devoy in the rebel media facility, in the middle of the film.

    We have to find some equivalent of jamming the Capital frequencies and getting our version in front of the viewers.

  157. Morag says:

    The National seems well established already in this 68% No-voting Borders village. When I first asked the newsagent to get me the paper, three days before it launched, he had no clue what I was on about. (But he’s a quick learner. The first edition appeared through my letterbox before first light that Monday morning, when I couldn’t have gone out for it due to being flat out with a chest infection.)

    Anyway, when I went in to pay my papers last week (something I wasn’t doing for a while, before the Sunday Herald came out), the National was one of three papers displayed on the actual shop counter (the others being the Peeblesshire News and the Edinburgh Evening News). He’s going for it!

    Meanwhile, in the Co-op across the road, it’s there and available, well displayed and the right way up, in its own slot next to the DR. Several of the staff there are Yessers – one made it very obvious to me during the campaign, and then a few days before the vote I found myself handing a Wee Blue Book to another senior shop assistant, having gone to his house without realising. He then made it plain he was a Yes, although he hadn’t said anything to me in the shop.

    So it’s all going well in some quite unlikely places. As I haven’t actually had to point out to anyone, 32% of the people in this bloody village actually voted Yes, that’s people who buy stuff you know.

  158. AyeAlba says:


    Does that apply in Scotland and if you don’t own the house, say council or housing ass?

  159. Morag says:

    AyeAlba, I’m hearing that whole “denying right of access” thing is an internet myth. Various stories, but I suspect it’s probably made up. You can’t stop anyone coming to your door, say to deliver a leaflet or ask if you want to by some clothes pegs, without taking out a specific injunction against them.

    In England, a solicitor told me I couldn’t stop anyone coming to my door. (I was complaining about school kids taking a short-cut which involved climbing a freaking fence, but that was part of his answer.) In Scotland we have even more freedom, and you really can go where you like unless and until someone takes out an injunction against you personally. You can no more stop someone from the TV licence collection coming to your door than you can stop a Conservative canvasser doing the same.

  160. AyeAlba says:


    I have a vague recollection of the subject being discussed a good while ago on Wings and it all seemed to be a bit confused. If I remember rightly, there’s no law of trespass in Scotland so I think you are probably right. I suppose the best thing to do is just not open the door to them at all and as my friends come to the “tradesmans entrance”(back door) lol I should be ok. Thanks for your reply.

  161. Betty Craney says:

    AyeAlba ,
    I stopped paying my licence fee and didn’t answer any of the letters they sent.
    I then had a visit. I wouldn’t give my name – asked what she wanted- she wouldn’t answer-told her she was wasting my time and her own and shut the door …her jacket had a Capita logo on it .

  162. Barontorc says:

    Morag, to ‘deny the implied right of access’ seems to have a legal overtone. Is this right or wrong?

  163. AyeAlba says:

    @Betty Craney,

    Thanks, I’ll bear that in mind when they come knocking. :o))

    I don’t do Twitter but looked up James Kirkup who was talking about Alex Salmond(my hero) on Daily Politics today and it seems hes getting a hard time for his remarks:-

  164. Pat Crawford says:

    I’m loving The National but still struggling to get a copy some days. Today, Helensburgh Central Stations newsstand only received SIX copies of The National.

    I love that they are diversifying in all areas. This is a different newspaper. They even cover “other” sports and not just football and golf. The other day they had a spread on Roller Derby. Really interesting.

  165. Fiona says:

    Really, there is no big deal about not paying a licence fee for a service you do not use. I do not think it is worthwhile to communicate with them at all: it only encourages them. I have never had a licence and never had a tv. As I have said before they write to me several times a year, which letters I bin. They come to the door very occasionally and they go away without any fuss when told to do so. Don’t answer questions and don’t let them in. It really isn’t a problem. Suggest you all relax about this.

  166. Gary says:

    The National is developing in front of our eyes. Broadening its range and becoming ever more readable. Thankfully it has avoided stories on Katy Price and the like! In an era when print media is dying its a tribute to it that its selling in these numbers, even on a bad day!

  167. G. P. Walrus says:

    I like how the National banner contains an “I” Scotland.

  168. Stoker says:

    @ AyeAlba,

    Sorry i haven’t replied before now but only seen your post this morning.

    Rather than tell you something i’ve been “hearing” i’ll tell you fact from my own experience.

    For the past several years i’ve been using the Online system of notifying them that i don’t need a tv licence and it has worked well, until recently.

    Back in June (2014) it was time to notify them again and update my records so i did this as per usual, Online.

    However, by September i was still receiving their feeble threatening letters so i got on the phone and kicked up a stink.

    Apart from endless scripted bullsh!t apologies and excuses, with no explanation as to why i was still receiving the letters, they updated my records (i even gave them my reference number i got from my Online notification).

    During this call i informed her that i also wanted to remove the implied rights of access. She then stated that she would have to transfer me through to her colleague for that process and proceeded to put me on hold.

    Approximately 30 seconds later a male came to the phone and i had to give him the details again. I also left him in no doubt that i wasn’t satisfied with their bullying process and wasn’t some little old pensioner that any Savile agent was going to scare easily (that’s the polite version).

    Eight (8) days later the confirmation letter arrived and as i don’t have the ability to copy it onto here for you i shall type it out for you word for word on a separate post.

    Before i do i have to agree with Fiona’s advice being the best advice – about not communicating with them at all etc – but that advice is not suitable for everyone and as you expressed concern about having “men and cops coming to your door and demanding entry” i am advising you accordingly.

    Hope this helps put your mind at ease.

  169. Stoker says:

    @ AyeAlba – Re: TV Licensing.

    The letter is set out in A4 size format rather than their usual rectangle shape. It has their contact details, reference number and date in the top left-hand corner with my details immediately under theirs. The top right-hand corner has their logo contained within a black rectangle and the wording “TV LICENSING” in white lettering. The letter then states:

    Dear Sir or Madam

    Thank you for your recent letter, which has been recorded under your complaint reference ##-###############. Please use this number if you wish to contact us again.

    I’m sorry that you’re unhappy with our visiting policy.

    I’ve updated our records and registered that you don’t require a TV Licence as there’s no equipment being used for watching or recording programmes as they’re broadcast live on television. You won’t receive any more letters from us for almost two years.

    TV Licensing don’t permanently stop writing to any address as circumstances change over time, and the occupier may change.

    We’ve noted our records with your wish to withdraw the common law right for TV Licensing’s officers to approach your property. We reserve the right to use other methods available for the detection of television receiving equipment.

    There’s a chance that another enquiry letter has been prepared for posting. If this arrives, please ignore it.

    Thank you for taking the time to contact us and i hope that this clarifies the position.

    Yours faithfully

    ##### #####
    It then goes on to inform me of how i can go about receiving the letter in a more accessible format etc etc etc.

    There are one or two points contained in this letter i will clear up in another post, but at the end of the day i now have a legal document in my possession (the letter) which covers me and the legal steps i have taken.

  170. Lollysmum says:

    @ Thomas Mitchell at 9.02pm

    Having read your post it prompted me to try putting it onto a kindle. I have a keyboard Kindle & I download the National as a .pdf. & it works just fine so I’ll be doing that every day from now on.

    Thanks for the suggestion 🙂

  171. Stoker says:

    @ AyeAlba, Re: TV Licensing.

    The letter above contains a few points i will clarify.

    (1)-Despite knowing my full details they address the letter to “The Present Occupier” and then they go on to address me as “Dear Sir or Madame.”

    (2)-Despite contacting them by phone they thank me for my “recent letter which has been recorded” under my reference number.

    (3)-They state in the letter that i “don’t require a TV Licence as there’s no equipment being used for watching or recording programmes as they’re broadcast live on television.”
    Complete and utter bull dung. I informed them of no such thing, i never, at any time, gave them a reason. I specifically informed them that i do not require a tv licence, which i don’t and i had 3 witnesses present when i made the call.

    (4)-They state on the letter; “We reserve the right to use other methods available for the detection of television receiving equipment.”
    Yes, you may very well do, but (a)-It is NOT a criminal offence to own a tv without a licence, (b)-This whole point was about not giving Capita access to my home you clowns and (c)-Adding that bull dung into the same paragraph as the confirmation of removal of access rights was deliberately misleading and a blatant final attempt to scare the sheet out of me – it didn’t work and only succeeded in giving me a laugh.

    As i said, AyeAlba, hope this helps and if you have any questions don’t hesitate to give me a shout.

    btw, 2 more points, (1)-I don’t own the property i live in and (2)-There are many YouTube videos on the internet with people showing you how to deal with the BBC and their agents (Capita).
    Just do a shoogle on google and take it from there.

  172. Morag says:

    Morag, to ‘deny the implied right of access’ seems to have a legal overtone. Is this right or wrong?

    I’m not a lawyer, I’m just applying common sense. Just because something sounds like legalese it doesn’t mean it has any legal meaning. Common sense (and my rudimentary knowledge) tells me that you can’t exclude anyone from your property without taking out a specific injunction against them. If they do damage you can pursue them on that ground, but you can’t stop anyone simply walking to your door and knocking on it – or sticking a leaflet through the letterbox.

    There’s a lot of stuff that gets propagated round the internet that looks and sounds credible but which is actually bollocks. I think this “implied right of access” thing is in that category. Anyone can come to your door and knock. Nobody can come in unless you invite them in (or they have an actual policeman with an actual court order). Think vampires.

    Bear in mind all these leaflets we delivered during the independence campaign. Did anyone hear about any union supporters “denying the implied right of access” to Yes Scotland leafleters? No, because I don’t think it’s an actual thing. (You might get “And don’t come back here again!” but you wouldn’t be committing an offence if you did, and a different person also leafleting for Yes wouldn’t even be affected by that remark.)

    As far as I can see, the trick is simply to send them away without giving them any information at all. That’s what I intend to do. The back of my TV is clearly visible from the public road, and it’s clear that the aerial is plugged in. I have no intention of changing that because I use it to listen to radio broadcasts at weekends (before BBC Alba spoils my fun). I also watch DVDs. Neither of these activities requires a licence. They can basically bugger off.

  173. Fiona says:

    “If a person writes to us and withdraws the implied right of access to their property, then of course we will adhere to their instructions”

  174. Morag says:

    What does that even mean? I have no idea what an implied right of access is. Does anyone?

  175. Lollysmum says:

    @ Morag

    Check the back of the TV licence
    At the bottom are the terms & conditions of the grant of a licence.
    One of them is that they have the right to visit & inspect any TV equipment but then goes on to say that you do not have to let them in. This is the implied right of access.

    They can’t inspect if you refuse entry but they can still look through your windows to try & catch you watching TV. Removing that implied right of access prevents them from doing this.

    They can only insist on entry if they have a search warrant.

  176. Morag says:

    Well I don’t have a licence so that doesn’t actually apply, does it? I can’t stop them looking through my window, it’s huge and about 6 feet from a public pavement. They can look if they like but the screen faces away from the window anyway.

    All they would see would be the red text box saying what’s currently playing on Radio 3, good luck to them. Maybe I should rig up a mirror to make it easier.

  177. Fiona says:

    Also a Scottish case refers to the implied right

    “The court also considered that “obviously” the position might have been different if the officers had been told to leave or if the door had been closed (which suggests that the decision might be explained on the basis that a licence to enter the house had impliedly been given).”

  178. Morag says:

    That doesn’t sound like what we’re talking about. That’s more like the vampire thing of being invited to enter. It refers to the householder implying a licence to enter, at the time of the confrontation. If you don’t invite them in by word or gesture, there is no right (implied or otherwise) to enter a house.

    The TV thing seems to be talking about walking up the garden path, but I don’t think you can stop them doing that, legally, without taking out an injunction.

  179. Fiona says:

    Suit yourself 🙂

  180. Morag says:

    Well, I don’t know. It would be handy to have a lawyer’s take on it. Where is LPW when you really need him?

  181. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Guys, I’ve been busily ploughing away with a magazine project that has been launched last week. We are a grass roots funded team that offers a Pro Scotland Magazine which is Free of Charge. If you like it, support us, if not, then no loss to you.

    Thanks for allowing this post Stu

    Yours aye Kendo

  182. Lorna McGowan says:

    would like a business/financial section. Maybe in the future great start really miss it at the weekend but Sunday Herald still a favourite

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