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Wings Over Scotland

Here we go again

Posted on February 23, 2014 by

To save time, just take everything we said last week and repeat.

Perhaps the most telling thing, though, about this week’s edition of what now appears to be the BBC’s official late-night No-campaign propaganda slot is that Iain Martin used to be the editor of the Scotsman. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

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    114 to “Here we go again”

    1. Richard says:

      Can’t watch its need to throw something and the iPad is too expensive to replace

    2. Richard says:

      Should be
      “Can’t watch it”

    3. uilleam_beag says:

      Scots “wouldn’t want London to be a foreign city”, apparently.

      That’s strange. Every time I’ve visited, it seemed about the most foreign city imaginable.

    4. yooneek2008 says:

      Rinse wash repeat

    5. wee_monsieur says:

      Such boring twaddle – doubtful if many viewers stuck it out to the end!

    6. paul says:

      I’ve lived abroad several times but in no other country did I feel as alien and foreign as I did in London.

    7. patronsaintofcats says:

      Jesus wept

    8. heedtracker says:

      Just when you think BBC bias couldn’t get any worse. Its like fly on the wall coverage of BetterTogther planning meetings. Thank christ I don’t pay for any these people, no matter how many red letters they threaten us with.

    9. smac says:

      I watched this – Esler is so uninformed. This is the ‘Truth’??

    10. Mosstrooper says:

      What is it with these ar@es who like to call themselves journalists yet never do any research into the details of Scottish independence and continue to witter on in the hope of getting some self satisfied London talking head to a)compliment them or b) nod in agreement to the complete garbage they feel compelled to utter.

      Check your sources and seek out more than one side of your argument you complete apology for a so called sentient human being never mind a so called political commentator

      There, rant over now for a cup of tea and a punch at the cushions.

    11. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Don’t worry. Iain Martin is just exbiting the deep ignorance that metropolitan media outlets have of current Scotland.

      Like Neil and Marr and countless others the londonjocks are driven by a self-serving urge to placate and please their paymasters. The metropolitan media laps up their uninformed or sychophantic judgements and turns back to other more important issues.

      Meanwhile at home we enjoy the reinforced complacency of the metropolitan media and get on with the work.
      (The complacency is not shared by those who know what is actually going on and who are in panic)

    12. Holebender says:

      You know what? Let them wallow in their smug complacency; their reaction on the 19th of September will be all the funnier.

      Hell mend them!

    13. kim barraclough says:

      News media living in their little goldfish bowl …

      Spanish foreign minister has said that as the UK has an agreement / contract (The Edinburgh Agreement) therefore Spain has no problem with an independent Scotland in the EU… Alex Salmonds speech in Aberdeen on youtube with thousands of hits.. again your wrong.. Mark Carney did not rule out currency union .. wrong again… bugger it I could be here all night!!

    14. bookie from hell says:


      your former editor of Scotsman very much in tune public opinion

      roll on sept 18th

    15. G. P. Walrus says:

      London speaking to London.

    16. Alex Grant says:

      I thought Esler was smarter than this. Tosser!

    17. Ian Anderson says:

      Too many inaccuracies and falshoods to count

    18. dinnatouch says:

      I could feel my brain turning to mush.

      Yet again we had the assertion that Scotland would be forced to use the Euro if we were allowed into the EU. Yet again the reference to Braveheart.

      I had to laugh at the comment that Scottish youngsters didn’t want London to become a foreign city because they wanted it’s opportunity’s open to them. I believe New York is a foreign city, but that doesn’t seem to have stopped David Bowie.

    19. Flower of Scotland says:

      Sick of this stuff ! Hopefully some more YES votes when doubters see this .

    20. Susan says:

      Someone needs to tell the Netherlands that they have a splittist group! some experts these lot are!

    21. Gavin Alexander says:

      Iain Martin talks so calmly, knowing that he’s not going to be interrupted or contradicted. He says a few stupid things, attaches a LOT of importance and meaning to Bowie’s 4 words (“worth more than 1000 interventions by politicians”), and of course manages to mention Braveheart! 😀

      The other three were not that bad, all from outwith the UK and relatively fair in their comments. But it is a bit like watching a TV programme from another country, Martin being the foreign correspondent back with his report.

      All in all, it’s really for people who are not engaged in the debate, either side of the border and, I feel, to maintain that ‘homely’ better together feeling so incessantly promoted by the BBC.

    22. Steve B says:

      While this is a great illustration of BBC bias in general – luckily there won’t be too many referendum voters who will watch it – and those that do are probably the more politically informed ones anyway.

      What is disturbing though, is that this program is shown worldwide on the BBC World News channel. What kind of impression does this give of Scotland elsewhere?

    23. Cankert Callan says:

      This story isn’t appearing on your hame page! You’d think they’d take Sunday off!

    24. Caroline Corfield says:

      Given that a proportion of your taxes don’t go towards the costs of infrastructure projects of a foreign city (foreign aid notwithstanding, though clean drinking water isn’t quite in the same league as a new cross city rail line), I suspect most Scots would be perfectly happy for London’s status to change for them. And probably that of Birmingham and Leeds too.

      When people inspect your paper money how foreign does that make you feel in a city?

    25. gerry parker says:

      Aye, a canny wait!

    26. Brian Hill says:

      As ever we get, on the EU, pronouncements. On day one after the referendum we expect to be members, but we’d not be. How can that be when the Edinburgh Agreement is a commitment to work positively toward achieving the will of the Scottish people. No-one ever explains HOW these things will happen.

      I’m an EU citizen and a UK citizen. HOW will the EU strip me of my citizenship, same goes for the UK. Do they declare all Scots outside the jurisdiction on day 1? Do they give us some notice so we can move to parts of the landmass where we are allowed to be EU / UK citizens. I mean, when Yes carries the day, we’ll still have a lot of No voters who might want to get out or otherwise protect their rights.

      When we consider it in this light, with very little thought given to the HOW, the pronouncements become frankly ludicrous. But the pronouncement is the only option for the No-sayers. Otherwise, an attitude of ‘let’s discuss how we could manage this change so we can all benefit’ would prevail.

      It’s as if the No camp can’t take the one or two small steps towards a possible Yes that would let them look at arguments on both sides and either achieve a balanced new relationship post-Yes or introduce reasonable arguments and issue which could rationally support their position.

      I’ve waited a long time now for those arguments and for the mature voice to present them and heard nothing above the whines and jibes. Maybe there are no arguments. Maybe Project Fear, because fear is its currency, is contaminated by handling it so much, like an explosives expert with chemical residue on their clothes and body. Maybe they’re afraid themselves to embrace the discussion that must be engaged. Yes or No, the door has been opened. It won’t ever close again. The reputation of the Union is in tatters, exposing it as a confederation of expediency. Vested interests produce fantastic alliances and yet alliances to deal with real problems seem unreachable and fogged with tired political claptrap. Some reputations will never recover.

    27. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Site really acting up today, dem pesky Russians must be on treble-time for Sundays.

    28. patronsaintofcats says:


      More like London speaking bollocks to London


      Hell mend them indeed. I’d hate to be these guys when karma lands on their little unionist party.

    29. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “This story isn’t appearing on your hame page! You’d think they’d take Sunday off!”

      We’re hoping to have caching issues fixed tomorrow.

    30. Heather McLean says:

      Listened for 38 seconds then gave up!

      Why do they persist in trotting out the same old lies and unionist propeganda?
      Are they really that misinformed down south?

      It’s not the Scots who are ‘ too wee, too poor, too stupid’ someone really needs to tell them!

      It’s really getting boring now!

    31. David Agnew says:

      Debating the no camp is simply talking to a brick wall. It “has no surrender”, “f*ck Alec Salmond”, and “Stick yer independence up yer bum” daubed on it in red, white and blue.

      It doesn’t matter what arguments you make. Or what evidence you submit in support of your argument. It does not matter how thoughtful or nuanced your argument is. The Wall will just sit there. Impassive, unmoving and still projecting the same nonsense at you.

      What else is there to do but walk on by?

    32. chicmac says:

      Tell a lie.
      Have it pointed out to you it is a lie.
      Stop repeating the lie.

      Is not how Nazi propaganda theory works.

    33. gavin lessells says:


      Perhaps the time has come to test the Scottish publics opinion on political bias by BBC Scotland?

    34. heedtracker says:

      It is a bit weird watching full on vote No propagandists in action though. Martin’s clearly memorised his “attack Salmond over and over” and his “frighten young Scots with they wont get jobs in London” is really creepy. Morality and the BBC probably means nothing to any of them in that outfit.

    35. Lanarkist says:

      The BBC arrogance on full display yet again. To say that Iain Martin as former editor of the Hootsmon has his finger on the pulse of Scottish opinion just shows how out of touch and complacent they are.

      They live in the past, the Hootsmon has declined rapidly by representing the establishment thinking and by being hostile to any form of discussion about future evolution within States.

      Both Institutions are employing Canute strategies and both will sink into obscurity, the Beeb at the moment having the more expensive, sophisticated life-boat will last until it hits the reef of referendum positivity.

      More questions for the Scottish Culture Committee to ponder!

    36. Stuart Black says:

      Dimitry Shiskin of the BBC reckons Salmond is ‘naive’ not to have anticipated a backlash from the political establishment. These people are supposed to be journalists? Sheesh…

    37. Stuart Black says:

      Oh yes, and there’s ‘Braveheart’ right on cue. House!

    38. Ian Kirkwood says:

      It is truly wonderful to watch such balanced “journalism”, isn’t it. The BBC much be truly proud of providing the public with their version of broad based fact and independent analysis, mixed with….. I am struggling to find the right word…..unbiased statements. I am really glad they didn’t invite any biased Scots to participate.
      Unbelievable, Bowie’s proxy utterance worth more than 100,000 politician’s!! Give me strength, how do they find these people? Hessler has really gone down in my estimation, no professionalism. He has obviously been taking lessons from Wark and Marr.

    39. Stuart Black says:

      As someone said recently – it might have been on here, or I think perhaps CiF – it’s like listening to four people discussing the duck-billed platypus, none of whom have ever seen a duck-billed platypus, though they have had it described to them by a blind person. 🙂

    40. Tartan Tory says:

      I watched this last night (actually this morning at 3am). I wanted to kick the telly, but after a bottle of red, I may have missed.

      The american was interesting and spoke most sense when he started by suggesting that independence from England had worked quite well for them!! Watch him from 4mins40.

    41. Clootie says:

      What happened to journalistic standards?

      Why is it as it becomes easier to source and verify data is reporting becoming so pathetic and inaccurate.

      I suspect that is why political parties now just hand over a press statement knowing it will just be accepted and reported by the lazy press.

      The majority of articles are now opinions with apparently no reviewer.

    42. clochoderic says:

      Re the BBC.

      It is not just talking heads who get paid to tell lies. I have been watching the BBC news channel for a while and a political editor(?) called Vicky Young has been on several times stating that George Osborne ruled out Scotland using the pound.

      She has now just popped up on the main lunchtime news on BBC1 with the same basic untruth.

      I hope someone is keeping score.

    43. chicmac says:

      O/T just bunged a wee donation to

      Post indy, depending on restructuring, I might even vote true Labour (they might even have to call it that).

      But in terms of efficacy in this referendum campaign my judgement is their plan to leaflet every Labour supporter in Scotland represents a good bang for the buck.

    44. Papadox says:

      The establishment live in a bubble of their own making and know they are correct. The sycophantic TV & PRESS just tell them what they want to hear, can’t rock the boat. So they make up a story and tragically believe it themselves. Throw in a few expats who have turned native in London, bobs yer uncle.

      Why don’t the stupid jocks read the script?

    45. Papadox says:

      “THE BBC STRIVES TO BE FAIR AND BALANCED”! Believe that you’ll believe anything!

      Propagandist and apologists for the Establishment, HMG.

    46. Angus says:

      What utter drivel the ex scotsman dork prattled on pretending to be the “Scottish” view when it could easily have been Osbourne or Cameron or some other clown.

      Unionist nonsense, no balance but it doesn’t annoy me personally-I’d be far far more nervous if these people were talking sense rather than bulshit.

    47. Helpmaboab says:

      uilleam_beag wrote about London,

      Every time I’ve visited, it seemed about the most foreign city imaginable.

      I feel exactly the same way and I know many others who share our opinion. Stepping off a train from Scotland at King’s Cross feels like entering a country that’s alien to me in almost every respect. It’s rude, aggressive, intolerant, brutal and selfish. Many of it’s people manage to be arrogant and parochial at the same time. Obscene wealth co-exists with degrading poverty.

      The BBC’s insistence that some Scots will vote against independence because they’ll be denied the chance to share a country with such a ‘vibrant’ city seems to be one of the unionists’ worst pieces of self-delusion.

    48. mogabee says:

      I watched the vid all the way through, I know, I’m fascinated by the lack of knowledge coming across from down south. There are echos of where we were a few years ago.

      Mostly what comes across is complacency, long may that last!

      As for the “finger on the pulse” I Martin kinda shows why his former rag is lining the budgie cage. Cheep, cheep!

    49. boglestone says:

      Their ignorance is astounding. And much like Osbourne’s intervention it has the opposite effect. It alienates. To paraphrase Princess Leia: The more they tighten their grip, the more we slip through their fingers.

    50. Linda's Back says:

      Sky News is just as bad and although they are not funded by the taxpayer their editorial guidelines has a wonderful cop out so far as Scottish political coverage is concerned.

      The use of deception or misrepresentation is only justified if
      there is a clear public interest justification and if the information could not be obtained by any other means.

    51. Alexandra-M- says:

      Every time they trot out the Braveheart line, I roll my eyes. They use it as though it’s a slight on Scottish people. What’s so wrong about a proud people rising and saying “enough of this crap! We can be better than this, we shall be better than this!”?!

      I’m glad to say that no one in my social circle has displayed any anti-English motivation for voting yes, and I have come across very very few anti-English comments in civilised online discussion/debate. However, I have seen many comments which are viciously anti-Scottish coming from everyday people and “journalists” alike. If we’re so bloody awful, why is there such a furore from Westminster over us standing on our own two feet?!

    52. dramfineday says:

      The only thing that should remain of the BBC, post independence, is the occasional visit from their foreign correspondent moaning about how well we are doing.

    53. Murray McCallum says:

      It must be against BBC policy to have factually informed presenters and/or guests when talking about Scotland.

    54. liz says:

      Now that Andrew Marr has come out as a No should he now be removed from hosting any indy ref programmes – to ensure balance of course for which, as we all know, the BBC is famous!!

    55. G H Graham says:

      If you are a rabid Unionist supporter living in the south east of England’s economic/housing bubble, this is a terrific current affairs program. The panel is allowed to ramble using fact free allegations & make points using data which is completely false.

      Thus, your anglophile viewpoint is reinforced making you feel cosy & reassured. Never mind that England is facing bankruptcy, is privatising its NHS & cannot afford to put any planes on its aircraft carriers for example.

      As long as the English audience is provided ammunition with which to mock Scotland while & offered an emotional security blanket, they will continue to slake their thirst on BBC propaganda.

    56. patronsaintofcats says:

      Agree with all the comments about London being a foreign city. I was recently in Brussels and experienced similar feelings. In my old age I find I can’t tolerate being in London for more than about 3 days. I travel with a large-ish rolling computer case as well as my luggage and for a woman with moderate mobility problems London public transport is a nightmare. 9 times out of 10 the up escalator at Euston is not working and I have literally been left in tears trying to get up to street level. Then there’s the Tube. The pay is good but I’m considering turning down work offers down there. Wish there was more work in Scotland but my work is very specialised and austerity has hit my work especially hard 🙁

    57. frankieboy says:

      I managed 1:30 and switched off to the sounds of me saying ‘what a dick’.

    58. Stuart Black says:

      @Alexandra-M-, Agreed, I have just had an email conversation with a work colleague who is on the verge of converting to Yes; he was quite taken with a line I put to him that a lot of our English workmates from the North East (we work in Oil & Gas contracting) would be tempted to move north on independence, furnishing us with a ready made population of skilled workers, with similar values to the Scots, to replace those folks now foaming in the letters pages about how they will move south if Yes wins. Not to mention the Rangers supporter who will move to Wales if we lose the 20 million that the Queen brings in, thus resulting in the country being “fucked”. 🙂

      Whatever this is about, it is not anti-English.

    59. Papadox says:

      When Cameron and his henchmen appear in Aberdeen tomorrow to explain to the daft jocks how we are to wee, stupid and poor to run anything, that’s why we need these gangsters from the big smoke to run the oil industry for us and sort out the finances.

      I hope mr Cameron will also explain what happened to the mcCrone report and hope he will apologies for it, and give us our stolen oil money back.

    60. velofllo says:

      Now that was interesting, basically just talking and agreeing amongst themselves. We’ve had Cameron proposing that the great British public, not him, speak to we Scots. Osborne refusing to speak to we Scots. Barroso again talking, unopposed, about we Scots. The David Bowie thing was so so ridiculous that Kate Moss was surely paid a whack for her to make such a fool of herself.

      Leafletting yesterday was interesting. Just about every leaflet refuser kept walking,declined to discuss with us and causes me to wonder if No voters are now moving into emotional No mode as they cannot hold a logic argument based upon facts and figures.

    61. Bill Walters says:

      Outside of the slightly naive Bowie stuff, I don’t see a great deal wrong with this discussion. Martin’s comments are pretty fair for the most part.

    62. CameronB says:

      There, rant over now for a cup of tea and a punch at the cushions.

      Do I detect the murmur of growing civil disorder throughout Scotland? Was Mr. Tonkin was correct after all?

    63. For the love of fecking god. Can someone in some high position in the Yes campaign for once throw the EU treaty in the faces of the BBC? Article 50 shuts them down completely. totally. I’m getting really sick of having to explain to people that the BBC and media are deliberately spreading misinformation about Scotland’s position in the EU when the EU treaty makes it very clear. Thou shalt not leave.

      Its gone on far too long. Far too fecking long now.

    64. Papadox says:

      Bumbldum Carmichael has got loose again, still gibbering, no coherence, no substance no hope. They bring these gangsters and FRAUDSTERS up here to tell us how stupid we are.

      How ignorant, arrogant and demeaning is this slap in the face and they don’t even get a red face.
      They truly think they are our superiors and we are their minions. Anyone who wants to associate with these morons speaks volumes, proud pseudo middle class Scots.

    65. Les Wilson says:

      I see that this is a great strategy as far as the BBC is concerned. You get a group of semi knowledgeable idiots together and verbally abuse Scotland, you have no one there to question what they say, a great system for them.

      Scottish democracy is not even on their agenda, we are where we are and they will keep us there.Yet,this is the country that assists almost every democracy movement across the globe. They are very quick to lambaste those who are not so democratic. Yet they treat Scottish democracy as some sort of disease or yes, a virus. WTF do they expect from us, for all this is becoming ever more virulent. We do actually know what they want and that is to keep their cash cow in place.

      Surely we must all wake up to this and treat it with utter contempt, just as we should when the Cameron road show comes to Aberdeen tomorrow, let’s tell them to F off back to where they came from.

    66. Helpmaboab says:


      Thanks for pointing out the Labour for Independence appeal. I’m not a natural Labour supporter either but I still chipped in a few pounds. They’re part of the Big Yes Gang after all and so they deserve our solidarity.

      By the way, Rev, there’s still plenty of money in the pot for the big fundraiser. My credit card is poised…

    67. Jim T says:

      Gavin Essler back on BBC News channel, right now, with that waste of space Martin. Might be same programme.

    68. heedtracker says:

      We are up against it though as in the Guardian hand wringing like mad with “Scottish independence: let’s have a passionate debate, but with less bile”

      But right next to their pleas, noble and honest GuardianObservor pumps out this colossal vote NO FUD bile and no YES CiF “passionate debate” either.

      Its “passionate debate” and only “passionate debate” if its vote NO. BBC, UKOK journalism, miserable bias and rank hypocrisy.

    69. Les Wilson says:

      Seriously folks I am beginning to really, really, dislike all of this stuff coming from the whole of the Unionist conspiracy, for that is what it is, no democracy for Scotland?, for that is bluntly what all this means.
      Do we let this continue without doing all we can to deride it at every turn.
      The Secretary of State for Portsmouth rambling on Sky tv right now, oh can’t wait to get rid of them, forget having these people around in a new Scotland. Put them all on St Kilda or better, the Isle of Wight.

    70. Alexandra-M- says:

      Stuart, I hope we do see an influx of Skilled workers coming to an independent Scotland – as long as the common goal is to create a bloody fantastic place to live and work, it’s all good! It’s good to hear of workers, whom the rUK government would have us believe will soon be jobless due to the diminishing soon-to-run-out resources, are willing to move up North. Makes one wonder whether the rUK government position on the North Sea is as accurate as they would have some believe 😉

    71. Robert Louis says:

      This kind of utter pish is getting tiresome now.

      As a senior BBC journalist, either Gavin Esler is incompetent, by failing to have prepared properly for that discussion, and so re-stating tosh like ‘Scotland would be forced to join the Euro’ etc. OR, he is a willing participant in the BBC anti independence propaganda campaign.

      It is simply one or the other.

      Just for the record, and in case Gavin reads this, in order to join the Euro a country must participate successfully in the ERM for a period of two years, BEFORE it is elligible to join the EURO. Entry into the ERM and adherence to its terms is entirely VOLUNTARY, QED iScotland cannot be forced to join the Euro.

      Next time you fly to Denmark Gavin, remember to get Danish Kroner (and NOT Euros) at the airport. Likewise Euros just won’t do for Poland, Sweden, and the Czech Republic.

      The BBC has now just become a propagandist mouthpiece, akin to cold war Pravda in the USSR.

    72. Jamie Arriere says:

      It really is astonishing – “naive” for Salmond not to anticipate a UK establishment backlash? No, it’s bollock-kickingly naive that journalists cannot see that the “backlash” drives more people to Yes, and there’s even polls saying that is what will continue to happen if it persists.

      Do their heads button up the back?

    73. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      im an snp voter but gonna make a wee donation to labour for independence, will help reach more people if lab for indy reach their target.

    74. Jim T says:

      @Findlay Farquaharson 2:48

      Just make sure it’s the labour for INDY lot that get the donation otherwise you’ve just bought JoLo another cheese sandwich. 😉

    75. Robert Louis says:

      I am prepared to bet a lot of money, that BBC ‘journalist’ Dimitry Shiskin has never been in Scotland in his puff.

      (coming up for the Edinburgh festival doesn’t count).

    76. G. P. Walrus says:

      The BBC are irredeemably biased but they have just published this quite balanced (but not prominently displayed) article on the currency debate:

      Nice to see.

    77. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Gavin Essler back on BBC News channel, right now, with that waste of space Martin. Might be same programme.”

      Almost certainly. DL gets repeated a few times.

    78. Tattie-bogle says:

      oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh why did i watch that. They are more in touch with a village in Outer Mongolia than Scotland.they still forget they broadcast up here and are two years behind the curve. balloons

    79. bjsalba says:

      The loudest way to speak to the BBC is to cancel your licence payments.

      When the payment demands/threats come write back and tell them you are not watching live TV. You are a) too busy delivering YES material b) too busy making YES campaign telephone calls – and if that doesn’t fill all your time, a) you have grass you can watch grow or b) paint you can watch dry.

      All of the above can be rated as better than any of the itty bitty sound bite drivel on TV. You can watch any decent drama (few and far between these days) at your convenience, not theirs at your ma’s or on iPlayer.

      It is best to do this from your local library (if it still exists) or some other public location.

      I can assure you this stops the red letters stone dead. I have not heard from the licence payment guys for – oh – two or three years now.

    80. David Smith says:

      “London in a foreign country…”
      Frankly, I’d prefer things if it were on another planet.
      Might as well be for all they understand us.

    81. Helpmaboab says:

      dramfineday said,
      The only thing that should remain of the BBC, post independence, is the occasional visit from their foreign correspondent moaning about how well we are doing.

      If only it were so! have you ever listened to ‘From our Own Correspondent’ on Radio Four?

      After independence we will indeed be visited regularly by the BBC’s staff . They’ll produce wordy, whimsical

    82. Alexandra-M- says:


      I cancelled my TV license about a year ago. I was told that I may be visited by license officers on a spot check, which I said was fine as I have no live tv equipment in my home for them to find, I haven’t had any communication from them since – and no spot check either.

    83. Helpmaboab says:

      Oops, cut off before I could finish.

      The last post would have ended,

      …Wordy, whimsical reports that report how charming but inferior we are.

      Try recalling the Beeb’s reports from Ireland, France, Greece, or any other country except the USA.

    84. Dick Gaughan says:

      patronsaintofcats says:
      In my old age I find I can’t tolerate being in London for more than about 3 days.

      You have better tolerance than I have. On the rare occasions I have to work in London these days, I book into the Days Inn on the M1, drive into the city, do what I have to do, then get the hell out of it.

      I lived in London for 2 years when it was a little less uncivilised than it is now but it’s become a completely alien place to me now. Why anyone over the age of 25 who has a choice would opt to live there is beyond my comprehension.

    85. Les Wilson says:

      I went on to the Guardian site and made 2 posts. First one lambasted Cameron for coming to tell us once more we are too small, too stupid and uniquely incapable of looking after our own resources. I also pointed out the the Unionist mantra across all sectors is to prevent democracy in Scotland, I said it was disgraceful.
      They did not allow it, I did not swear, I was not angry , I just told the truth.
      Second time I pointed out ways they are using to destroy Scottish democracy, and again I said it was shameful.
      Again, they did not allow.

      There we have it, no one can say the truth when it comes to the assault on our democracy, they just do not allow it.

    86. Vronsky says:

      Don’t worry. Iain Martin is just exbiting the deep ignorance that metropolitan media outlets have of current Scotland.

      That’s just a bit of the story. Westminster and its mouthpieces in ‘journalism’ know that Scottish secession will be ruinous for them, in every possible sense. Physically, they lose crucial resources while politically their self-mythologising Ruritania takes a hard (hopefully fatal) knock. So imperialists like Herr Martin have to steer a tricky course between telling their pet audience that we’re all ineffectual drunks, best wittily ignored – and yet on the other hand, a dangerous formation of zealots, in thrall to an evil demagogue.

      All the threats offered to Scotland by independence are actually threats to London: they lose the oil, they lose the GDP, they lose the water, they lose the electricity, they lose the expendable troops, they lose their Megadeath Industry up at Faslane. All their myths about themselves vapourise or become insupportable.

      Poor them. Poor Herr Martin, trying to make it all sound reasonable.

    87. msean says:

      Last night I’m sure I saw wall to wall coverage from Ukraine claiming they would eventually join the EU.No sign ofMr Barroso yet to pour scorn on them(so far).Salmond,Salmond,Salmond,Salmond,Salmond etc etc.Alex Salmond is not the Yes campaign.I used to watch Dateline London and they never used to even mention Scotland till lately.Now it has turned from a decent slot into a place where the media get to run down the presenters’ homeland and their ELECTED leaders.

    88. whatastramash says:

      This kind of complacency is quite encouraging in its way, clearly none of the panel has a clue about what’s going on in Scotland. As for Iain Martin thinking that young people in Scotland pay any attention to an aging has-been like Bowie! well he’s got another think coming, both of my sons (ages 26 and 29) think he’s a right plonker. The patronising tone and vaguely threatening style of Martin is quite irritating though.

    89. Morag says:

      A couple of years after I moved back to Scotland from Sussex I went to visit a friend who lives in Twickenham. It wasn’t even central London, but the size of the buildings and the huge number of shops and all the people weirded me out.

      I was in Walthamstow a couple of months ago, again visiting friends, and we took public transport to Royal Oak to visit another friend. It’s completely overwhelming.

    90. Morag says:

      I’m watching the closing ceremony from Sochi on BBC2 now, and it’s lovely. I just wouldn’t feel it was right to go on doing this if I didn’t pay my licence.

      I did delay it for three months, until they started threatening me, though. (I know, wimp.)

    91. Frost says:

      Esslar should be sacked. By saying that Scotland would be forced to use the Euro then he’s either flat out lying or doesn’t know enough about the subject. Either way, it’s unacceptable.

    92. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Watched this on Beeb World News.

      Impression was of a gaggle of pet house prefects “dazzling” and all sucking up to the school establishment with the intention of one of them attempting to be the boss, smarty-pants – or -skirt – one: A collective drivel of wannabe “intelligence analysts” (a contradiction in terms, of course, given the track record of these shamans fucking up the reading of the steaming geo-political intestines with war criminal consequences).

      A minor debating club – over-blown and smug – for low level intelligence assets and would be George(tte) Smileys fighting the establishment’s good fight on behalf of the be-knighted fuzzie wuzzies of this world who do not know better.

      Anachronisms increasingly glaringly apparent under the light of this site’s, and others’s, forensic analysis.

      PS “Loved” how the Ukraine “report” and “neutral” analysis segued “seamlessly” into Scotland with the vole-like Martin (formerly of the “Hootsmon”) given acres of the floor to – pinch-snouted – prattle his pro-UK cliches.

      Is this programme a forum for the get-together of establishment agent provocateurs to sleaze their masters’s and mistresses’s stuff?

    93. magnus barelegs says:

      brit jock spouts fear mongering garbage as per usual, as for london becoming a foreign city so what, i feel i have more in common with likes of stockholm and oslo and reykjavik than i do with that place and thats even in the union, though not for much longer hopefully.

    94. magnus barelegs says:

      beware of bbc reporters/so called journalists like lyse doucet who was spouting more lies before about scotland comparing us to south sudan! turns out ms doucet if you do some digging is part of a london think tank called chatham house whose president just happens to be lord robertson, small world eh. ms doucet seems very good at spouting westminster propaganda, not just at scotland but also assads syria. impartial journalists at the bbc no such thing they are all there to help push along the westminster/mi5 spook narrative.

    95. Look Skye Walker says:

      So what is in it for them? Why is the BBC totally biased towards the unionist case? I truly believe that they could not careless about Scotland or the Scots. This is about saving THEIR gravy train jobs. If Scotland becomes independent then a new tax funded Scottish broadcasting service may come in to being which means that the current TV license must be renegotiated in the rUK. The BBC is already unpopular south of the border and this renegotiation of the new licence fee will open a can of worms leading to the BBC having to support its self by advertising or having its budget cut.

    96. magnus barelegs says:

      look forward to magnusson,bird,campbell,renton,fraser and all the other smirking nu liebour loveys at pathetic quay being shown the door along with boothman,mcquarrie post sept 2014.

      karma indeed.

    97. gordoz says:

      I really hope the so called undecideds & proudscots (british) can stomach this guff and watch it for what it is nothing more than propaganda from the State Broadcaster of GB.

      So called scots have no problem mocking ‘Scots aspirations’ from afar – just keep that gray train running guys!

    98. Lochside says:

      Odious propaganda masquerading as international ‘opinion’. What did that US correspondent say about ‘rubbing shoulders’ with Angela Merkel… thus: we international Lilliputians ‘breaking away’ from our’state’ because of the protective umbrella of the EU?

      So a people and country that has existed for a millennium needs a bunch of artificial federated states to legitimise our democratic rights?

      I’ve advocated demonstrating outside Pacific Quay in order to demonstrate publicly the dishonest state of BBC ‘Scotland’. Unfortunately to a disappointing(for me) response.

      Cancel your tv licences, yeah, good idea, but how long will that take to make any real difference, when the British State is sponsoring BBC daily to pump out concerted lies? Remember, we’re 10% of the audience, so if a third cancel, that equals 3%.

      Remember the poll tax only ended when the London mob rioted, not with the ‘can pay don’t pay’ campaign involving hundreds of thousands of people (including me). Incidentally, I am not suggesting that type of extreme behaviour as a solution.

      How about slipping leaflets into newspapers on a daily basis that denounce that paper e.g. Daily Record, Sun, Daily Mail, Herald etc. So that when your average punter opens’s says ‘This paper lies about your country! read w.o.s.; newsnet Scotland; bella etc. for the truth!

      Now probably there is some libel law that makes this difficult..but it would be difficult to prove that any of the aforementioned propaganda sheets would be anything other than found guilty as charged.

    99. chicmac says:


      Aye, it was extrfa from me and all. Didn’t come off my ‘ringfenced’ WOS budget.

    100. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’ve advocated demonstrating outside Pacific Quay in order to demonstrate publicly the dishonest state of BBC ‘Scotland’. Unfortunately to a disappointing(for me) response.

      Cancel your tv licences, yeah, good idea, but how long will that take to make any real difference, when the British State is sponsoring BBC daily to pump out concerted lies? Remember, we’re 10% of the audience, so if a third cancel, that equals 3%.”

      What percentage is a few dozen people shouting outside Pacific Quay for a day? Cancelling TV licences will hit the BBC infinitely harder than pointless demos. A third of Scottish licence fees would be BBC Scotland’s entire annual budget.

    101. Donald says:

      Used to watch the BBC, including this. Don’t now. It would occasionally discuss a place with which I was familiar. Believe me, it was the same pish they spout about us.

      Superficial, surface knowledge and precious little understanding.

      This is the establishment talking to itself. Esler is the establishment, and a snippy wee self-regarding nyaff he is too. Doesn’t like being crossed.

      The hubris is like a rash all over them, and they are incapable of seeing the world through any other than their Empire glasses.

      We will be well rid of them.

    102. Richard Bruce says:

      Wow, I’ve never heard so much ignorance from world news correspondents.

      I would have thought the ARD German lady would have done some homework, very pathetic and really ignorant of any facts. I think she’s been in London too long.

      They don’t get it do they?

    103. Mark Coburn says:

      I’m totally loving this. It’s great. Hah! I love the sheer misunderstanding on their part. It just motivates me to go out canvassing even more than at present.

    104. Croompenstein says:

      nothing else much to say but Iain Martin you sir are a prick

    105. Doug Daniel says:

      I got as far as the French guy calling Salmond naive and could watch no further. I can’t believe how much misinformation there is there. Makes you wonder what else you hear from foreign correspondents is complete and utter pish.

    106. Camz says:

      2 Europeans, an American and two Englishmen.

      No Scots at all.

      What was all that about Scots voting on English matters, but when it’s the other way round, they want to control the whole deal.

    107. Taranaich says:

      What was all that about Scots voting on English matters, but when it’s the other way round, they want to control the whole deal.

      Except, of course, when it comes to Cameron debating with Salmond, THEN it’s “a decision for Scots alone.” Though that doesn’t stop people from having their tuppence ha’penny worth..

    108. Morag says:

      Anyone who thinks Salmond is naive really has NOT been paying attention in class. Which is so much the better. It’s never a bad thing when your enemy seriously underestimates you.

    109. majestic12 says:

      I have lived in London for a long time, and it is a foreign city not only for Scots but for most English as well now. It has become a city state sufficient unto itself and cares little for any Britons north or south of Hadrian’s Wall.

      Poor Londoners on benefits are being forcibly removed from their social housing to strange towns in the Midlands and the North so that greedy London Councils can up their rent revenues, or sell the better properties to private developers. People who thought their East End birthrights were inviolable now find themselves disconnected and living in places such as Hull or Scunthorpe, whose Councils have been paid by London boroughs to take their unwanted citizens.

      Prime real estate and businesses are being sold off to the highest bidders, namely Chinese and Indians. Big developers pay bribes of millions to the Local Authorities so as not to have to include any social housing in their developments.

      I elaborate only to illustrate that not only Scots are being shafted by Westminster, but the English are too, and they’re starting to sit up and take notice. Better for all if England were to insist on its own parliament too, preferably somewhere right in the middle like Birmingham. London will ultimately suck the life out of everywhere at the next big banking disaster, so we better make sure we get a Yes vote in September.

      Did Babylon sit neatly inside a Square Mile, I wonder?

    110. David Steele says:

      What an absolute load of rubbish. Who told these people that they have a valid view of Scotland?

    111. Frost says:

      According to Iain Martin, young people don’t want to lose access to the city described in this link…

    112. Margaret Brogan says:

      I followed the link to the Guardian article and found the majority of the comments which I read to be callous and self satisfied. I didn’t want to read them all, didn’t have time either, but got the impression that to many contributors there is nowhere else worth living, a foreign land indeed.

      Like so much in these papers, this left a very bad taste.

    113. Appleby says:

      Pathetic show. Vastly ignorant people talking about something they apparently have no real interest in until the “topic of the day” was presented to them.

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