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The double standards

Posted on June 28, 2014 by

bannocktoon

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    1. 28 06 14 07:24

      The double standards | Scottish Independence News

    2. 14 09 15 20:30

      Battles | A Wilderness of Peace

    3. 14 09 15 20:31

      Battles for Britain | A Wilderness of Peace

    204 to “The double standards”

    1. john king says:

      My take on that picture is
      Military man
      Oh I say there’s one of you and dozens of us, a bit unfair dontcha think?

      wee man wi sword
      Aye a suppose,
      you go and get reinforcements,
      Ah’ll wait right here.

    2. seanair says:

      BBC radio this morning “celebrating” the start of WW1, and Cameron sneaking into Scotland for a quick visit (and Union speech no doubt).

    3. Robert Peffers says:

      Love it! Great work! (and so very very true.

    4. Clootie says:

      The quality of these cartoons is exceptional. The message conveyed in one picture so powerful.

    5. seanair says:

      So angry with the BBC and Cameron that I forgot to congratulate Chris on his cartoon. Spot on !

    6. Buster Bloggs says:

      Double standards indeed, the disturbing thing for me is we have Scots doing this event down, these people are history deniers and are still trying to wipe away our unique Scottish history/culture.
      Just another example of Saltire bad Union flag good

      Oh I’m so looking forward to that big Yes win :-)))

    7. Davy says:

      I hope at the next council election the people of Stirling remember their tory and labour counciliers and the stunt they pulled on delibratly trying to ruin the Bannockburn live event.

      I have nothing against the Armed Forces Day, but they are being used by the unionist parties for political gains today.

    8. Ken500 says:

      British Day is costing Stirling taxpayers £1/2Million. How many visitors stayed away from Bannockburn because of the double booking?

    9. Grouse Beater says:

      The double shame lies with Stirling Council that organised both events in the same area in the same day in order to devalue the Bannockburn Live event.

      Only a petty wee ‘Sko-ish koonsil’ could plan the demise of their own local event as a way of giving the finger to their nation’s pride and its future.

    10. gordoz says:

      Aye – how apt !

      Vote YES and this need never, ever happen again.

    11. gordoz says:

      Stirling Council … spit.

    12. mogabee says:

      Sadly Chris you have drawn the situation perfectly…

      Well done!

    13. HandandShrimp says:

      I am fairly sure it wasn’t just Stirling council involved in the decision to double book Stirling. The Bannockburn event was planned well in advance of the AF Day event there. It was a deliberate bit of politicking. If there was no referendum I am pretty sure the 100th commemoration of WW1 AF Day would have come nowhere near Scotland. There are undoubtedly military types that still feel it should be a lot closer to the cenotaph this year and resent it being used this way.

      That said it looks like Bannockburn will get a decent audience. I hadn’t realised that the music line up was so good. It is in effect a cracking folk festival with a bit of sword waggling during the day.

    14. caz-m says:

      I remember last September, the BBC was on the battlefield at Flodden to mark that battles 500th anniversary where James the IV of Scotland was killed.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-24014077

      I do hope the BBC give us the same kind of coverage at Bannockburn today and tomorrow for their 700th anniversary.

    15. Davy says:

      Sorry, about this OT, but Dennis Canavan is kicking the shit out of labour MP Ian Murray on GMS right now, what a hammering.

    16. HandandShrimp says:

      I should add that the No side can’t go on about Yes making the referendum a Scotland vs Britain thing. It was they that decided to make these two events a choose between Scotland and Britain thing.

    17. goldenayr says:

      That’s two guid starts to the day.This cartoon and Dennis Canavan on GMS ripping Ian Murray a new one.

    18. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      “In the year of Our Lord 2014 …”

    19. cynicalHighlander says:

      Sums up the British Nationalists.

      Just heard Ian Murray on the radio telling lie after lie after lie what an utter disgrace he and his party is.

    20. JimnArlene says:

      Brilliant.

    21. goldenayr says:

      Strange name for a Lord “2014”?

      Ffoulkes-Sake,Lardy,Grivelling-Bomfiddler aye..never heard of 2014.

    22. Grouse Beater says:

      I’ve a fair amount of admin work to get done today but I’m aiming to the the 4pm battle sequence if I can get to Stirling in time. The weather should be kind.

      I’ll keep a look out for Yes badges.

      Got an invitation to the new Bannockburn visitor centre a couple of weeks ago. The interior entertainments are first class, well worth the time spent, the black bricks and roof tiles a good choice for the outside, but you can see how much the building was designed down to a budget.

      Bruce’s statue is as impressive and imposing as ever. I read the sculptor, Charles Pilkington, took measurements of Bruce’s skull for his interpretation.

      Compare that centre to the Mary Rose Museum and you’ll begin to understand when it comes to conserving and promoting our history Scotland is grossly short-changed.

    23. Edulis says:

      Very apt in the Brito-Scottish debate.It is called hypocracy.

      To hear more, I point you to the demolition of that odious creature Ian Murray by Dennis Canavan on GMS. It is about 10 minutes in. Murray had nowhere to go and was left bleating.

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Great cartoon.

      I hope the Bannockburn event is a success. I’m away otherwise I definitely would have gone.

      People say ancient history like this doesn’t matter. Well, think about this. If the Scots hadn’t won at Bannockburn, Scotland would probably have become a region of England. And, we wouldn’t be having our referendum on 18th September.

    25. Les Wilson says:

      Stirling Council deliberately caused this for sour political reasons, I hope these people get kicked out as soon as possible. F@@”g disgrace the Scotland.( note I have never indicated swearing before, but this!)

      Further rant, who in their right mind celebrates the start of a war, any war, least of all this one. Of their frigging heads. The END of a war, YES absolutely, but the start?
      a serious psychiatrist required in Westminster as it is full of screwballs.
      Please god we get out of this in September.

    26. Another Union Dividend says:

      On Radio Scotland just now, Angus Macleod reading out a list of anti Yes stories from UK right wing press and adding his own swipes at the SNP / Alex Salmond.

      And we thought the BBC would have some impartial newspaper reviewers during the referendum regulated period!

    27. Another Union Dividend says:

      Grouse Beater

      Remember that Sir Kenneth Calman has been chairman of the National Trust for Scotland since 2010 and has decreed that Bannockburn should not be used as an expression of Scotland’s freedom but that it helped create the Union.

      Stirling’s Armed Forces Day is being addressed by David Cameron and has lost £160,000 to date over and above what local taxpayers have contributed.

    28. Tattie-bogle says:

      Les Wilson

      Swearing can be used for colourful metaphors but in this case

      ARSEHOLES the lot of them

    29. ronnie anderson says:

      Lister pal awe ah need tae keep ma sword sherp is a wet stane

      dontya know the Oils runnin oot,

      Nae Oil == nae tanks = nae airyplanes & nae grease fur yer

      gunbolts = Yer Fucked Daltons doon the road i,ll gie you a

      good price fur the scrap.

    30. goldenayr says:

      Grouse Beater

      Went to Bannockburn on a trip not long after the visitor centre was built.They tried hard but it was just a glorified shelter from the rain.Up until my late teens I was convinced Robert was our first King.MacBeth was just a character in a Shakespeare play and Anglo/Romans had been in charge till 1314.

      The manipulation and rewriting of history has been a tool of Westminster from the start.Gawd knows why anybody would apply to Ox/Cam to learn history.

    31. MajorBloodnok says:

      Davy says: Sorry, about this OT, but Dennis Canavan is kicking the shit out of labour MP Ian Murray on GMS right now, what a hammering.

      Good, ’cause there’s plenty shit to kick out of him.

    32. ronnie anderson says:

      Anither great cartoon Chris weil done pal.

    33. Les Wilson says:

      Another Union Dividend says:

      Yup, you ARE right about that one, with no Bannockburn we would have been an English shire!
      Bannockburn allowed us to be a Country, so was hugely important.

      The Union came about, not because of Bannockburn, but because of English deceit, lies, and threats, sound familiar?

    34. Grouse Beater says:

      AUD says: And we thought the BBC would have impartial newspaper reviewers during the referendum regulated period!

      The BBC excuses itself in these cases citing the claim guest pundits need no other as ‘balance’ because they are ‘not material’ commentators. Aye, and I’m Charles Dickens.

      BBC 24 Mawkish Hours now at Bannockburn – no, not that one, the army extravaganza. English major explaining how it will all be a celebration of the war dead, beginning with a fly past – though none existed World War I.

      “Well bring you more as they day goes along,” adds BBC man on the spot.

    35. alexicon says:

      Cynical ploy by the UK Government and Stirling council.
      Do Stirling council have the right to promote Bannockburn tourist attraction in the future?

      O/T.

      Even the Daily Malice can see that the great British propaganda machine is at work here, something we’ve all known for ages, but still good to see it in print.
      They moved it off their main page fairly quickly though.

      Scots Bribed with Gongs to vote no

      https://archive.today/yNIvb

    36. Les Wilson says:

      Tattie-bogle says:

      You are absolutely right, x 10!

    37. Croompenstein says:

      Raging not the word, F*ckin EBC. James Cook at Stirling bigging up Armed Forces Day and not one mention of Bannockburn. He talked about the Wallace monument and how there had been ancient battles then pointed to statue of Bruce and said and I quote “And a statue up here of Robert the Bruce who fought in others as well but today the main event here is to commemorate Britain’s armed forces”

      Sneevling bstirt your tea’s oot… Pacific Quay tomorrow ya bass

    38. Tattie-bogle says:

      O/T

      Just came across a BBC Scotland better together report

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNOrp_83RU

    39. galamcennalath says:

      Another Union Dividend says:
      “… decreed that Bannockburn should not be used as an expression of Scotland’s freedom but that it helped create the Union.”

      Same perverse thinking the Victorian North British had about celebrating William Wallace. They justified his actions as helping to bring about a ‘fair’ Union.

      Aye Right!

    40. MajorBloodnok says:

      I’m surprised there isn’t an Orange March in Stirling today as well. After all, King Billy was at Bannockburn and …er… showed all they catholick Taliban Fuzzy-Wuzzies what for, eh.

    41. caz-m says:

      Portsmouth City Council thought they had put forward the best bid to host the 2014 Armed Forces Day “celebrations”.

      http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/portsmouth-bids-to-be-armed-forces-commemorations-host-city-1-4954420

      But, surprise surprise, Stirling Council won the bid.

      Was it their negotiating skills that won the day or could it have been the fact that Bannockburn’s 700th anniversary was on the exact same day.

      Message to Stirling Council members who arranged this criminal act, “We Will Remember” as the say in the army,

      Or as Basil Fawlty would have screamed,

      YOU BASTARDSSSSS !!!

    42. Grouse Beater says:

      BBC’s propaganda machine on behalf of British imperialism trundles on relentlessly though it has only three wheels, the engine has no oil, and steam oozes from its radiator.

    43. Les Wilson says:

      We should all, every real Scot, be very very angry about all this. We should make our feeling felt as far as possible, to friends. family, anyone who will listen.

      Write in bloggs/ comment pages, facebook, twitter, everywhere!

      They need to feel the disgust that any right thinking patriot should feel. The Unionist propaganda machine against Scottish democracy needs exposed and derided.

    44. Krackerman says:

      Noam Chomsky nailed this one –

      “The point of public relations slogans like “Support our troops” is that they don’t mean anything… That’s the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody’s going to be against, and everybody’s going to be for. Nobody knows what it means, because it doesn’t mean anything. Its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something: Do you support our policy? That’s the one you’re not allowed to talk about.”

    45. galamcennalath says:

      24 March 2016 will be Independence day. I think Scottish Broadcasting should be set up long before then. We want the BtBC out of our lugs at the earliest opportunity!

    46. Les Wilson says:

      Let us not forget just what happened at Bannockburn, the English army came to take over Scotland.
      If we had failed they would have laid waste to the land, raped our women, killed our children and old men, and generally destroyed us.
      To much?, they had form for doing those things, just ask the people of Berwick.

      They were the most powerful army in Europe, yet they were hammered. English pride was severely dented, and it shocked the whole of Europe. Had we been better equipped and had an equal size army it might have lead to a full scale invasion of England itself.

      As it was, we should swell with pride of what we achieved by so few, against seemingly impossible odds.We should be talking with pride about Bannockburn, no doubt about that.

    47. Dan Huil says:

      Sickening unionist hypocrisy.
      Unionist media [especially the BBC] salivating at the prospect of British “armed forces day”.
      Thank God for the football and tennis or we’d all be smothered by unionist saturation coverage.

    48. Croompenstein says:

      James Cook you had us fooled we thought you were at least going to try and be impartial but to refer to Bannockburn as ‘others’ you have shown yourself in your true light. We won’t forget it James, our history is not ‘others’ we will celebrate repelling the invader and you can celebrate invading other countries along with your imperialist masters.

    49. Dan Huil says:

      Mind you. Wimbledon is just another unionist jolly.

    50. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @goldenayr says:
      Strange name for a Lord “2014??
      Ffoulkes-Sake,Lardy,Grivelling-Bomfiddler aye..never heard of 2014.

      The full version:

      “In the year of Our Lord 2014, patriots of Scotland, starving (too poor) and outnumbered (too wee), charged (too stupid) the fields of Bannockburn, and won their freedom.”

      (C) Mel Gibson

      🙂

    51. goldenayr says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews

      Aaah..thought you’d gone all HoL on us there 🙂

    52. caz-m says:

      Les Wilson

      As Alex Salmond said last week, this will be the first time ever, that the Scots will have a say in the outcome of their Country.

      We will always have a place in our hearts for ALL Scots who have dreamed of an Independent Scotland, but will not be here to witness it happening.

      Please don’t let them down,

      Vote YES on 18th September 2014.

    53. john king says:

      Goldenayr says
      “That’s two guid starts to the day.This cartoon and Dennis Canavan on GMS ripping Ian Murray a new one.”

      (I hope you read my “reprise”)

      That little get Murray has a face you never tire of slapping as well. 🙂

      Grouse Beater says
      “Compare that centre to the Mary Rose Museum and you’ll begin to understand when it comes to conserving and promoting our history Scotland is grossly short-changed.”

      But I’m sure you would agree with me the guys who staff that place are amazing, the guy interviewed on telly last night dressed in period armour, is the guy who runs the battle board thing and he sounds suspiciously like Paula Rose? namely he’s a Londoner I think, and he’s brilliant the way he got all those shy wee kids involved in the battle was very impressive, at the beginning they were very shy and not keen to take part,by the end they were calling for the Kings head, (Edwards that is),
      but on the downside it just goes to show how people can be riled up into a bloodlust by manipulative people,
      not so cool.
      but a valuable lesson for everyone on both sides of the political divide.

    54. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

      We get this type of thing all the time in Wales. I was taught, when doing my A’levels, that Wales and Scotland, prior to union, were just “tribal areas”. Infuriating. They are pulling out ALL the stops for this referendum. I pray you succeed.

    55. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @goldenayr says:
      Calgacus MacAndrews
      Aaah..thought you’d gone all HoL on us there

      Naebody has offered me “Lands and titles” yet.

      It must be the YES badge that’s putting them off.

      🙂

    56. goldenayr says:

      John King

      Yes.

      Calgacus MacAndrews

      Never mind son,after the YES vote all the land will be ours.

      What worth a title then?

    57. AllyBally says:

      The deliberate clash between the two events is a story in itself but some fuckin’ chance. AFD has been shamelessly politicized by politicians who obstructed the armed forces in the 80s with bans on recruitment events and boycotting VE Day 40th anniversary services.

    58. Les Wilson says:

      Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

      Robert, the poison that they are spreading will not be forgotten, whether or not it is a YES. It will go down in folklore as the start of the end of the UK as it stands now.

      They reap what they sow, and they have sowed a lot, it follows that they will pay a heavy price when their imperial system falls apart.

    59. Sinky says:

      Interviewed on BBC Radio Scotland this morning at 9.10 or so on state of NHS in Scotland, Allyson Pollock, professor of public health research and policy at Queen Mary, University of London and formerly of Edinburgh University began by stating the biggest problem was that the NHS in England no longer exists and that the £20 to £30 BILLION scheduled cuts in government health spending south of the border over the next few years will have dramatic consequences for the NHS in Scotland due to the Barnett formula consequentials.

      As this didn’t follow the BBC’s script they moved on to other health issues but this should be taken up by our Scottish press… but I won’t hold my breath.

    60. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @goldenayr says:
      Never mind son,after the YES vote all the land will be ours.
      What worth a title then?

      In what currency?

      Bags me an Order of Wings Over Scotland title.

      🙂

    61. goldenayr says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews

      You have that…I’ll have the Order of the Almighty Hangover.

      Do they do an Order of the Cheesy Grin?

    62. caz-m says:

      At Bannockburn today, how are we going to hear Robert the Bruce’s battle cry when there are a dozen Red Arrows Jets screaming over his head.

    63. Sinky says:

      Listening to his defence against Denis Canavan’s list of occasions when Labour supported Tory cuts, Ian Murray had a serious memory lapse.

      On 26 March 2014 he along with most Scottish Labour MPs, including Alistair Darling and Sheila Gilmore voted in favour of further Tory welfare cuts. Gordon Brown failed to show up.

    64. donald anderson says:

      If you want the real information on Scottish history avoid the National Trust in Scotland. Instead, visit the Smith Museum in Stirling to see the sterling work of the curators, Elspeth King and Michael Donnolly.

    65. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @goldenayr

      LOL

    66. goldenayr says:

      caz-m

      What’s the betting they time the flypast for a crucial moment at Bannockburn?

      donald Anderson

      The National Trust buildings near me all have YES stickers.Probably in the minority I know but still good to see.

    67. Stuart Black says:

      Brilliant ‘toon, Chris, and an equally brilliant take on it from John King, cheers John! 🙂

    68. Robert Graham says:

      my oh my BBC propaganda news totally ignore the Anniversary in all their bulletins here’s me thinking it was our national broadcaster relaying all the news impartially to the whole country oh silly me best of luck and a good turnout on sunday at the propaganda factory on the banks of the clyde

    69. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      test

    70. Croompenstein says:

      They’ve probably been told not to mention the ‘B’ word..ah well here goes….

      Bias BBC Bastards…

    71. john king says:

      Dulce et decorum est
      “How sweet and honourable it is to die for one’s country:
      Death pursues the man who flees,
      spares not the hamstrings or cowardly backs
      Of battle-shy youths.”

      Wilfred Owen.

    72. caz-m says:

      O/T

      After Andy Murray’s latest Wimbledon victory, the BBC camera zoomed in on Ricky Gervais celebrating, then found someone waving a Union Jack and the final shot was of a girl with a Union Jack painted on her face.

      Is there a ban on waving the Saltire at Wimbledon or even having any image of Scotland on show at all.

      Because it sure looks like that to me.

    73. john king says:

      I noted that as well Caz-m
      I pray for Murray to win Wimbledon and then come out for YES on centre court when accepting his prize. 🙂

    74. scottish_skier says:

      OT. Gap between Tories and Labour on the economy hitting new highs.

      http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2014-06-26/ConleadEconomy2.png

      Tories increasingly a dead cert for 2015.

    75. bookie from hell says:

      donald anderson says:
      28 June, 2014 at 9:52 am
      If you want the real information on Scottish history avoid the National Trust in Scotland. Instead, visit the Smith Museum in Stirling to see the sterling work of the curators, Elspeth King and Michael Donnolly.

      THX for the INFO

    76. Kirriereoch says:

      Nice work. Meanwhile a recently discovered document shows that Robert the Bruce had planned this all along. The text from 1314 states,

      “We, the Scottish Army led by The Bruce, have planned the battle for this time because our seer states that this self-same date will coincide with a major parade of red, while and blue war machines in Stirling a whole 700 years in the future”

      In response to this recently discovered text Mr Darling stated,

      “This is typical of the separatists. Here we have concrete evidence that these dastardly secessionists were even trying to disrupt this proud display of the British war machine in Stirling in 2014 from as far back as a whole 700 years previously. Is there nothing sacred to these Bruce-ites?”

      😉

    77. Nana Smith says:

      @john king

      I doubt very much that mummy will allow Murray to say YES. Angling for an honour don’t ya know, that’s what I think.

    78. Derek M says:

      They just dont get us do they, do they really think wheeling out the military machine on this day of all days will somehow make us all feel like we belong ,if anything it will put more resentment in the hearts of Scots all over our wee bit hill and glens.
      Search into your soul people of Scotland and remember those who fought and died for us ,can you hear them calling listen to your heart you will hear the battle cry of old freedom,freedom,FREEDOM!!!

    79. Croompenstein says:

      To be fair Andy is in the lions den they still can’t get over the fact he is a Scot and their own ‘Tiger’ Tim never came close to winning the British Establishment Tennis Championship.

      I don’t think we should look to Andy he is a top class sportsman and he rightly keeps it zipped on the political and constitutional situation. (Would be fantastic if he did come out for yes though)

    80. Bill Pickford says:

      To hell with the BBC, the UK Establishment and the knavish Unionists – it was the charge of the ‘small folk’ who won the battle in 1314, and it’ll be the votes of the’small folk’ which will win Independence in 2014.

    81. Alan McHarg says:

      Son’s and daughters of Scotland…The Bruce and Bannockburn calls you as our nation, once again, needs you to defend its right to exist…see you at Bannockburn!

    82. Les Wilson says:

      I sincerely hope that this backfires on these deceitful Unionist conspirators.
      Follow hope, follow YES!

    83. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry if previously posted, but as we are talking defense of the realm.

      BBC Diomhair
      How the Westminster government, the Metropolitan Police and MI5 tried to keep Scotland from taking the path to independence using underhand dealing, theft and lies.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdkyggLrsc

    84. Nana Smith says:

      Gosh according to the daily rag I see Ed is planning to stay in Scotland until the 18th.

      Funny that as the begging letter/ email I received this morning clearly states Ed will be in London on the 9th July.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/ed-milibands-referendum-vow-im-3778853

    85. caz-m says:

      scottish_skier,

      You are Wings Over Scotland’s very own comfort blanket.

    86. john king says:

      Nana Smith says
      “I doubt very much that mummy will allow Murray to say YES. Angling for an honour don’t ya know, that’s what I think.”

      Im not so sure Nana, while I agree with Croompenstien that coming out for yes would see and end to his being lionised by the British media if he did come out for yes (and I’m sure his grandparents are for yes?
      and while I could be totally wrong I don’t see his mother looking for a title, she strikes me as a strong person who cant be bought, I hope so anyway.

    87. caz-m says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      I hope aw this fame disnae go tae yur heed. LOL

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU3zN-ExcM8

    88. Nana Smith says:

      @john king

      Hope you are right John.

    89. caz-m says:

      Did Andy Murray not refuse a Knighthood last year?

    90. Andrew Morton says:

      I’m pretty relaxed about all this. It takes the heat off the Yes campaign because if Armed Forces Day wasn’t being held here, we’d have the BBC banging on about Braveheart and how the Yes campaign is an atavistic, ethnic movement based upon a bloody battle 700 years ago.

      Instead it’s all been blurred by the stooshie over the collision of dates and it’ll all be forgotten next week.

    91. Neil Craig says:

      How much of the WW1 stuff is really going to be “glorifying” it?

      When it comes to double standards how about the SNP who claim the BBC is biased AGAINST but cannot deny that the BBC are virtually entirely censoring UKIP, both from ordinary “news” and from the referendum pseudo-debate? Nor object in any way to this censorship in their favour.

      Then the SNP double standards of claiming to believe in democracy but supporting Fascist violence to prevent it.

      I assume Wingers will, as normal, prove my point by confining themselves to fact free rudeness.

    92. Anne Lawrie says:

      If Ed stays in Scotland until 18th September, does that mean he’ll have a vote? Just askin’

    93. Black Douglas says:

      Morning Neil 🙂 how is our resident 👿 today?

    94. john king says:

      Did somebody come in and leave the door open?
      smells like the farmers spreading dung on his fields.

    95. scottish_skier says:

      UKIP have 0.07% of elected representatives in Scotland. That’s half of what e.g. the East Dunbartonshire Independent Alliance party have.

      Coverage is based on this.

      I wouldn’t mind more coverage though as the simple fact they support the No campaign is enough to push 1/4 more towards independence and give Yes a majority according polls (panelbase June 2014).

    96. heedtracker says:

      What happened there with the WoS black out and twitter and hotmail too gone completely? GCHQ flexing muscle no doubt.

      Big UKOK tries to blank out Scotland shock. BBC very very vote NO aggressive this morning.

    97. Marcia says:

      When I was listening to Radio 4 early this morning, Bannockburn Day was being mentioned on the news headlines up until 8.30 am and AFD did not get a mention.

    98. Vronsky says:

      Anyone got a link to that Labour No pic where they’re photoshopped in extra heads?

    99. Andrew says:

      Hi folks,

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling campaign office?

      http://igg.me/at/Yes-Stirling-Office/x

      We’re still a wee bit short and your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

    100. Adrian B says:

      fact free rudeness

      You will be able to back up your own assertion there then? No, wonder why?

    101. scottish_skier says:

      Interestingly, UKIP only manage to get any representation in Scotland when turnout is at its lowest, i.e. where people don’t consider those being elected as particularly important.

      2011
      50.0% turnout
      0 UKIP seats

      2012
      39.1% turnout
      0 UKIP seats

      2014
      33.5% turnout
      1 UKIP seat

      A reflection of the fringe status of UKIP in Scotland.

    102. Vronsky says:

      THE ENTITY ‘NEIL CRAIG’ WILL GET BORED AND GO AWAY IF NOBODY RESPONDS TO IT. YES, I KNOW I’M SHOUTING.

    103. Marcia says:

      Vronsky

      (whisper) I agree.

    104. Adrian B says:

      @ Scottish_skier

      There is a piece in NNS covering the story that you mentioned:

      http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/in-brief/9377-nearly-a-quarter-of-people-more-likely-to-vote-yes-because-of-ukip

      “UKIP came fourth in Scotland in the recent European election, compared to its first place UK-wide. Westminster is dancing to UKIP’s tune by threatening to drag us out of the European Union in an in/out referendum – which is one reason why a Yes vote in September is so important.

      “There is also the extreme right-wing Britannica Party – an offshoot of the racist BNP – which is now officially registered in support of a No vote, as is Mr Alistair McConnachie, who has denied central realities of the Holocaust. They are utterly unrepresentative of Scottish opinion and an embarrassment to the No camp.”

    105. scottish_skier says:

      Anyway, the ‘powerful voice in Europe that Scotland benefits from as part of the UK’ has been evident for all to see over the past few days.

      Dave really showed em huh.

      How undemocratic to hold a vote and not vote the way plucky old blighty wants. That’s just not cricket.

    106. Michael McCabe says:

      @Neil Craig Have a look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JddNDtC-Yrs&feature=player_detailpage That’s Nice

    107. Grouse Beater says:

      John wondered: You agree with me the guys who staff that place are amazing.

      I agree, John.

      I did say the interior entertainments are a marvel, but it’s the building itself that shows signs of poverty. The vast difference in museum care and costs is the issue. What was Mary Rose but Henry VIII’s deathship!

      So…

      QUESTION:
      What’s the difference between a celebrated English warship that sank drowning all crew, and a celebrated Scottish battle leaving many dead?

      ANSWER:
      About £26 million and countless documentaries on the former, including the building of the museum, from BBC Television funded by the public.

    108. MoJo says:

      take it I’m not the only one who lost access to WoS and other sites ( also Indiegogo)for an hour or so this morning ….hopefully that will only serve to boost numbers at BBC Scotland peaceful demo tomorrow at Pacific Quay in the interests of protecting freedom of speech at this crucial time….

    109. Brotyboy says:

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread

      Maybe not, but you’ve put this same post on many, many threads over the last week or so.

      There are very many worthwhile groups who are worthy of our support: while some of them have been pointed out to us here and there, none of them has so consistently appealed for contributions in the way you have done.

      I think your point has been made.

    110. Adrian B says:

      @ Veronksy,

      Anyone got a link to that Labour No pic where they’re photoshopped in extra heads?

      Its on the spoof twitter account for Anas Sarwar. Scroll down to 18th June:

      https://twitter.com/AnusSarwar_

      or get the individual picture here:
      https://twitter.com/AnusSarwar_/status/479415103931293696

    111. Muscleguy says:

      @LesWilson

      The primary aim of the English army that fought at Bannockburn was the relief of the Scottish siege on Stirling Castle. Through much of Scottish history the absence of bridges over the Clyde or Forth rivers and their watersheds overlapping means Stirling with it’s rock rising above the floodplain being the ideal strongpoint to control access above what is now the Central Belt or incursions south into it. Further East Perth fulfils the same function wrt the Tay. In Macbeth the English come from Birnam Wood (near Dunkeld) because the Tay runs through a narrow gorge there that was easier to bridge.

      The English holding Stirling thus gave them much control over Scotland anyway, until they were invested by Bruce’s troops.

      Had the English won at Bannockburn they might have done some despoiling but would have restocked and reinforced Stirling Castle then pretty much gone home. Especially so if the Bruce was killed or captured, stopping only to appoint a vassal king to hold Scotland. After all the whole issue was not Scotland’s right to have a king, but whether or not the King of Scots should swear loyalty to the English throne as a vassal or not.

      As to whether that would have seen us end up like the Welsh, that depends on the Scottish kings playing ball long term and not being toppled by those who wanted more independence. Now knowing Scottish history, how likely do you think that was?

      Wales is much easier to parcel up with a few castles. ‘Rebels’ in Scotland could too easily gather and resupply and raid from north of the Highland line, using the Western Isles and also the SW. It wasn’t until the military roads of Gen Wade and others both before and after the ’45 and the barracks and forts at Rutherglen and in the Great Glen that control of the Highlands was achieved.

      The way history is taught is still too much on Great Men which makes them seem indispensable. But Wallace ultimately failed, then came Bruce. If you recall the Jacobites had two goes, in 1715 with Bonnie/Bloody Dundee then again with Charles Edward Stewart in person.

      As a nation we survived the Rough Wooing, Mary, Cromwell’s depredations and the Jacobite risings with the Covenanters (where George Graham got the ‘Bloody’ tag) when the common people got sent to the Bahamas as slaves when they lost. But they still they fought.

      We look at modern control of nation states but the past was much more like Somalia or Afghanistan are now with warlords needing to be appeased and themselves struggling against usurpers and popular risings.

      If you recall the English had quite some trouble with rebellions of their own over the years. Add in those pesky Frenchies who had to fight their own wars of Independence against the English making Ireland, Wales and Scotland as well as Lancaster, York and Northumberland places that could be more independent than loyal.

    112. galamcennalath says:

      OT Just heard a report that No Better Together Thanks are out and about in the middle of Perth. My observer on the ground said most folk seemed to refusing to take their bumph. Excellent!

    113. bookie from hell says:

      Dennis Canavan v Labour MP Ian Murray

      Good Morning Scotland

      10 mins in

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b047c6c8

    114. Agnes Rattray says:

      Correct me if I’m wrong but, didn’t WWW1 start on 28th JULY? not June? So why are the armed forces “celebrating” it today?

    115. Robert Kerr says:

      @Muscleguy

      Ruthven surely, not Rutherglen.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthven_Barracks

      Sorry for being an “alert reader”

      Thanks for the badge Stu!

    116. Yesitis says:

      Sums it all up perfectly. Nice one, Chris.

      The way Bannockburn has been ‘dismantled’ by historians and politicians by telling us “Oh, it wasn`t really a gamechanger. It actually wasn`t much of anything, or that it`s completely irrelevant to modern Scotland” is a sign of things to come in a post-No Scotland.

      Armed Forces Day in Stirling on the same week-end as Bannockburn was a cynical ploy. Really quite transparent, and metaphorical. Every time Scotland rises it will be swamped out by Britishness.

    117. I really don`t think the local council had any say in the matter this came from way up high in the darkest rescesses of the establishment

      My father and grandfather were in the Armed Forces and to think there day was used in such an obviously political way not to celebrate the men and women with us and passed away who fought and are still fighting to protect Democracy but to try and score political points is in my mind heinous.

    118. Capella says:

      Brilliant interview on GMS this morning! Isobel Fraser discusses the state of the health Service and the impact of privatisaion in England with Prof Allyson Pollock, Professor of Public Health Policy at Queen Mary university, London. Don’t have the software to clip the interview but you can hear it online at approx 1:10:46 at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b047c6c8
      Should be broadcast as widely as possible!

    119. john king says:

      Just had the No thanks campaigners at my door but the girl didn’t knock (probably saw my yes poster in the window) I went out to get a bit of information by just walking past,
      1 Local accents (sic)
      2 all (6) about 22 y/o (paid?)
      3 have everyone’s names on their list (heard the leader say number such and such is mr amd mrs so an so reading from his list)
      4 went down the street quickly suggesting no ones (a) answering the door to them or (B) no ones engaging with them.

    120. Croompenstein says:

      Here’s a wee video of Craig Neil…..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLx0i1vuBWs

    121. Molly says:

      Nana Smith ,
      Judy Murray ( in fact all the Murrays) but Judy in particular does loads for Scottish tennis behind the scenes. I don’t know what her politics are but mind this is a Mum ( and Dad) who had to pay for their sons to go train elsewhere, leaving home as very young teenagers.

      I don’t know if she still does but she used to train the wee ones.

      Andy Murray has always neatly sidestepped the issue of the Referendum but he’s chosen to invest his money locally and don’t know if it’s true but there was also talk about the Binos.

      Sometimes actions are louder than words – well let’s hope so

    122. john king says:

      How did he manage to get two hands raised when he asked “hands up, who likes me”?

    123. Grendel says:

      I used to enjoy visiting Stirling. I’ll be bypassing it in future.

    124. goldenayr says:

      john king

      John,when we go out we have a list from the electoral roll so we can record intentions and hopefully don’t miss any.

      Going out tomorrow in fact.

    125. M4rkyboy says:

      Are you still here talking shite looking for someone to agree wi ye Neil?

    126. goldenayr says:

      M4rkyboy

      I have a theory that ukippers are all inferiority complex ridden masochists.

    127. bookie from hell says:

      early in the day but YES 1,NO 0

      https://vine.co/v/MFq7xzteaFz

    128. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker: 28 June, 2014 at 11:16 am
      “What happened there with the WoS black out and twitter and hotmail too gone completely? GCHQ flexing muscle no doubt”.

      Very heartning actually, heedtracker. If they consider it worth blotting us out it proves at least two things. (a) -They are frighened of us and (b) – We are doing the things that really do worry and frighten them.

    129. Helena Brown says:

      That is a Great Cartoon, says it all doesn’t it.

    130. M4rkyboy says:

      Golden
      They sound their UKIP klaxon loud and clear and look around hopefully.
      Thankfully i have a brain and the ability to think critically.

    131. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Various sites were down not only indy ones.

    132. Helena Brown says:

      Muscleguy, loved your bit of history, just wanted to add that quite a good few years ago we visted the then dig at the Great Hospital at Soutra. We got a talk by the Prof in charge of the dig, which because they were dealing with medical waste was quite specialised. They were able to say that there had been abortions on the site,that they had found viable anthrax and pin point the times when the Scots were being starved, such a time was during the Wars of Independence when we were burning the English out and starving because of it.
      I agree sometimes it would be nice to hear how the sma’ folk managed, they lost husbands and sons as well.

    133. goldenayr says:

      M4rkyboy

      When it comes to unionit parties it also helps to think cynically.

    134. Calgacus says:

      Ooh, I have just seen the bbc news. Armed forces day looks like a dead loss, maybe 2000 spectators. No coverage from Bannockburn of course. Quick get the squirrel Farage front and centre.

      This makes my blood boil. G. T. F. ebc

    135. Thepnr says:

      What’s going on? this has to be a wind up or someone at STV has contracted the virus.

      http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/280608-indyref-daily-stvs-briefing-on-independence-referendum-campaign/

    136. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king: 28 June, 2014 at 11:11 am

      “Did somebody come in and leave the door open?
      smells like the farmers spreading dung on his fields”
      .

      Nah! I’m looking out at the farmer just now and it isn’t dung he’s spreading. It’s plainly very liguid pig slurry.

    137. goldenayr says:

      Thepnr

      Talked about that yesterday,I,m convinced it’s the Scotlandshire guys freelancing.

    138. Calgacus says:

      GMS iplayerwith Canavan not working, funny about that.

      Goebbels would be proud of them but its too feckin OBVIOUS

    139. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers, I lost WoS, hotmail and twitter but could still see sights like facebook and newsnet and ofcourse the BBC.

      We’re with BT and it suddenly started to slow down. We have EE G3/G4 but that was no different, so if they are closing down access to/targeting particular sites or even just practising NSA black out tech here on Scotland, I contacted BT to get their version of this bullshit.

      With the giant BBC rolling black out Bannockburn and only showing British military stuff going on, its looks like a major ramp up of teamGB bettertogetherising. It works too, for a while there’s no knowing whats happening except what the BBC in Scotland farts out which is worrying and shows how the web is not secure, or its all just coincidence.

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      @Vronsky: 28 June, 2014 at 11:24 am
      “THE ENTITY ‘NEIL CRAIG’ WILL GET BORED AND GO AWAY IF NOBODY RESPONDS TO IT. YES, I KNOW I’M SHOUTING.

      Thank you Vronsky, I’m a bit hard of hearing. Receiving you loud and clear.
      ;-))

    141. msean says:

      Just saw a Tory defence secretary on tv,standing with Stirling Castle as a backdrop saying that the Scots won’t vote for independence. Will look good in lead up to the referendum lol. Thanks for the Tories,please send more as we’re running out again.

    142. Col says:

      I had No campaigners at my door, I answered politely of course. Not in my nature to do otherwise and I was eager to get into a conversation about independence but they saw my YES posters through the flat. A big Scotland flag which is only really there because my blinds came crashing down so the game was up. They were English which did make me think maybe they are getting bussed up like previous elections but cannot be sure on that one. I wished them the best of luck, well not quite but I did wish them luck. Empty the gesture as it was.I really relish the actual debate! Love speaking to folks about it.
      The two extremes I would have to say were the Scottish guy who said he would kill himself if we got independence, jaw drop! He was very upset at the thought and not up for a debate at all as you can imagine. The whole idea was so far gone from his comfort zone I had to walk away, in fact i`ve avoided said bar since. It upset me actually that project fear(Not a new thing) had such an extreme effect on some folk. I don`t think he was a Brit Nat, something I can almost get to grips with. It was that he thought it would actually bring on the end of days which shook me.The country would actually crumble post a ~Yes Vote. Not the other extreme but I spoke to a guy who I made the mistake of being English but was actually – Well, he was British! His parents were Welsh(Southern) sorry I can`t remember where but really it doesn`t matter at all. He had served in the British Army, was dumped when he was injured to the point of no return and sent off with a big fuck you coz he was gay and his superior was a religious fanatic at a time when you could get away with prejudice like that. (His former wife ran away with a woman which may have shaded his decision making) Not so long ago too if I remember correctly! Smallest pension v`s the one he should have got being a serving and severely injured soldier. Afghanistan was, is not so long ago! I suppose that`s a story in itself but he was very interesting to talk to. He had experience of working at Prestwick Airport (The army side) and had knowledge of Machrihanish which was an American airbase for years and he openly mentioned the aurora project which is still a black op as far as i`m aware. We had heard of such and some had seen things in that part of the country. I will say no more but he also worked at Faslane and stated that it should be the best place to place a Scottish Navy in part.
      I`m rambling on here but on the day I saw the well wishing video for Scottish independence from Wales It brought great encouragement to me to hear someone from outwith this country really for independence.
      Wish I could be at the BBC Demo tomorrow but I`am sending a friend who is curious. A former No Too. Lets do this! In the immortal words of Public Enemy.” Fight the powers that be”

    143. Schrodinger's Cat says:

      i think a yes stirling office appeal is a very worthy cause
      especially on today of all days, a wee donation givin Andrew
      please give generously, they only have 60hrs left to make their target

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-stirling-office

    144. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Caz-m,10.38, I knew the vid was in the pipeline, but all

      credit is Ninjapenguin & Jock Scots, an ah dont wear that

      coller tae hud up ah big heid lol, sees u tommorrow.

      Remember lads n lasses Pacific Quay demonstration 2pm.

    145. bookie from hell says:

      Bannockburn event sat–SOLD OUT

      police turning people away

    146. msean says:

      That page must be a Scotlandshire spoof.

    147. heedtracker says:

      https://archive.today/v0C13

      Maybe with the British army in town, STV and BBC britnats have just said fuck em, lets show Scotland what we really think of their independence, or its all just coincidence.

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Marcia : 28 June, 2014 at 11:25 am
      “Vronsky (whisper) I agree.

      WHIT? A’h canna hear ye, Hen.
      Oanybiddy seen ma hearin aid?

      Note – Ma hearin aid’s a puckle papillon bitch wi muckly lugs.

    149. Calum Craig says:

      I shared this on Facebook earlier and immediately a Unionist “friend” (who never comments on any of my non political posts) jumped on it, gloating that I live in England.

      What does it matter where I live? Should my wife stop caring about Japan?

      Anyway, the laugh is on him as I am moving home next month, in time for the last 6 weeks of campaigning.

    150. gerry parker says:

      Hopefully the smell will go too.

    151. goldenayr says:

      Robert Peffers

      I was sorely tempted to say something derisory about my wife in response to your post.

      But good sense(and the fact she sometimes looks in to see what the conversations about)stopped me.

    152. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I really don`t think the local council had any say in the matter this came from way up high in the darkest rescesses of the establishment”

      Given that this is the same council that wanted to fly a Union Jack over the statues of William Wallace and Robert the Bruce at their headquarters, I wouldn’t be so sure.

    153. goldenayr says:

      Just seen the AFD on the beeb with Cook(ed).

      There’s mair folk at our village gala day.

    154. Cindie says:

      @bookie from hell is right. VisitScotland have just retweeted this:

      ForthValPolice ?@ForthValPolice 25m

      #BannockburnLive has completely sold out. Carparks are full. Please only attend this event today if you have a ticket. Have a great day

      Looks like nobody in Stirling is watching the BBC they’re all at Bannockburn!

    155. Peter says:

      There’s a famous quote from R Heydrich about destroying a people by exterminating their history.

      Not that I’m suggesting anything about the Big Lie campaign with their Enemy Within and Untermensch slogans combined with cartoons straight out of Der Sturmer.

      And I hope that post Yes the armed forces day is binned. Celebrate war criminals on your own time.

    156. unchillfiltered says:

      I’ve always been wary that the Bannockburn issue could have both positive and negative effects, but the way it has panned out has surely played well for yes as the establishment have so totally overreacted to it with their Edward II like show of military force. Come the 18th of September this crass manoeuvre , like Bruce’s victory will be a well understood solid historical fact amidst the slippery world of opinions. Very heartening….

    157. Andy-B says:

      That picture really does say it all, about the disgusting hypocrisy of Westminster, to commemorate/celebrate the beginning of a war is unheard of. Its just a cynical ploy to try and boost support for Better Together and Westminster, never before has the Westminster government looked to Scotland to remember the fallen of WW1.

      Companies like National Express, who are giving armed forces personnel big discounts on travel if they’re going to the Armed Forces day, do themselves no favours by showing their true colours.

      What I find most galling of all is that Westminster has chosen Bannockburn, and the same weekend to strut their stuff, a clear sign that they’re trying to drown out the Bannockburn celebrations.

    158. bookie from hell says:

      20,000 could point @sses stirling castle as Cameron accepts the standard

    159. Andy-B says:

      Just heard on the radio there, the Bannockburn event has SOLD OUT! the bad news is David Cameron is at Armed Forces day preaching his mantra.

    160. bookie from hell says:

      If you want tickets for sunday

      best to phone visitscotland today,and pick them up info centre sunday

      http://www.bannockburnlive.com/tickets

    161. Capella says:

      “I really don`t think the local council had any say in the matter this came from way up high in the darkest rescesses of the establishment”
      Not so. See the recording of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee of the Scottish Parliament.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDcCWIsNxaY at 2:31:28
      The Reps of Stirling council look clearly guilty and squirm out of answering the questions of the MSPs on why Armed Forces day was scheduled for the same day by saying this will be the subject of an inquiry which won’t report until after September!. Also the anger of Pete Irvine of Unique Events, organiser of Bannockburn Live, is barely suppressed.

    162. John devine says:

      Bannockburn 1314 is recognised as the first war of Scottish Independance…hopefully September 2014 will be our finest hour…vote aye.

    163. heedtracker says:

      “Will you vote against Milliband scrapping benefits for young people Ian?” Cue memorised Westminster focus group not cuts butopportunity waffle/lies.

      At least future teamGB Prime Minister Bojo’s taken delivery of those shiny new and several hundred grand water cannons for London. That’ll save them. The canons may fire dyed water at protesters, so they can be caught and punished later. Lovely old teamGB

      http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/put-ultraviolet-dye-in-london-water-cannons-to-track-protest

    164. bookie from hell says:

      First negative unionist Bannockburn live tweet

      David Torrance
      ?@davidtorrance Bannockburn Live essentially lots of (long) queues.

    165. Andy-B says:

      Some nice pictures from the Bannockburn event.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-28056972

    166. Andy-B says:

      Ed Miliband I’m staying in Scotland until the 18th of September, that all we need is Miliband roaming about Scotland ,spouting his lies.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/ed-milibands-referendum-vow-im-3778853

    167. bookie from hell says:

      BBC NEWS

      AFD–8 mins cov stirling
      Bannockburn–no mention

    168. Roll_On_2014 says:

      .
      How historians view The Battle of Bannockburn 1314.
      .

    169. bookie from hell says:

      people tweeting couldn’t watch battle scenes to full

      justified complaint if your forking out £50 for family

    170. an n says:

      Scotland has spoken. Once again the WEE FOLK have taken on the establishment and have won the battle.

    171. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Just returned (soaked) from the AFD after spending most of the day at Bannockburn Live.

      First point BBL had more people by a factor of 5 or 6 to 1. We had to wait in a queue over half a mile long to get into the venue and even after that we had to queue to get access to the brilliant battle re-enactment.

      Headed over to the AFD, no queues, carpark was half full and it was remarkable to note how few people there were compared to AFD.

    172. Taranaich says:

      Since we’re talking Bannockburn, I figure I might shill my comic:

      http://bannockburncomic.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/bannockburn-intro.html

      The new date for the comic is 6th September – not for that other thing happening, but for the MCM Comic Con. Fingers crossed! I also had something about the importance of Bannockburn on Wilderness of Peace, but I think one shill is pushing it as it is.

      @john king:

      My take on that picture is
      Military man
      Oh I say there’s one of you and dozens of us, a bit unfair dontcha think?

      wee man wi sword
      Aye a suppose,
      you go and get reinforcements,
      Ah’ll wait right here.

      Beautiful.

      @Scot Finlayson: I really don`t think the local council had any say in the matter this came from way up high in the darkest rescesses of the establishment

      What, the Labour-Conservative Coalition? That local council? Surely not!

      @Muscleboy: Had the English won at Bannockburn they might have done some despoiling but would have restocked and reinforced Stirling Castle then pretty much gone home.

      True for the majority of the actual army, but the baggage train for Edward II’s army was filled with furniture, cutlery and other accoutrements brought up by nobles expecting to be granted Scottish estates following the victory.

      Especially so if the Bruce was killed or captured, stopping only to appoint a vassal king to hold Scotland. After all the whole issue was not Scotland’s right to have a king, but whether or not the King of Scots should swear loyalty to the English throne as a vassal or not.

      Which, in practise, means losing all sovereignty: everything from taxes to men would be raised for England’s wars and conquests, just like what happened in Wales and Ireland. And, of course, Scotland post 1707. A vassal king is little more than a glorified governor.

      As to whether that would have seen us end up like the Welsh, that depends on the Scottish kings playing ball long term and not being toppled by those who wanted more independence. Now knowing Scottish history, how likely do you think that was?

      Wales is much easier to parcel up with a few castles. ‘Rebels’ in Scotland could too easily gather and resupply and raid from north of the Highland line, using the Western Isles and also the SW. It wasn’t until the military roads of Gen Wade and others both before and after the ’45 and the barracks and forts at Rutherglen and in the Great Glen that control of the Highlands was achieved.

      The way history is taught is still too much on Great Men which makes them seem indispensable. But Wallace ultimately failed, then came Bruce. If you recall the Jacobites had two goes, in 1715 with Bonnie/Bloody Dundee then again with Charles Edward Stewart in person.

      As a nation we survived the Rough Wooing, Mary, Cromwell’s depredations and the Jacobite risings with the Covenanters (where George Graham got the ‘Bloody’ tag) when the common people got sent to the Bahamas as slaves when they lost. But they still they fought.

      Yup. That said, the Welsh took some parcelling up: Wales has 600 castles – the highest concentration of fortifications per square mile in the world.

      To play the “what if Bannockburn failed” game, I foresee the situation being similar to what happened at Mons Graupius: the actual kingdom of Scotland on the East Coast might be dominated, but the Highlands and Islands are a different matter entirely.

      The way Bannockburn has been ‘dismantled’ by historians and politicians by telling us “Oh, it wasn`t really a gamechanger. It actually wasn`t much of anything, or that it`s completely irrelevant to modern Scotland” is a sign of things to come in a post-No Scotland.

      To say Bannockburn wasn’t a gamechanger is preposterous, and it’s even worse when otherwise good historians fall into the trap. No, it didn’t immediately grant internationally recognized Scottish independence, but it was the last major English invasion of the war – and indeed, every other battle up to the Northampton treaty was fought in England, putting England on the defensive.

      @Peter: There’s a famous quote from R Heydrich about destroying a people by exterminating their history.

      Oh, I’ll have to look for that one.

    173. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @bookie from Hell

      Torrance was correct. We couldn’t get any scran without having to queue for well over 30 minutes so we left after 4 hours and they were still queung to get in.

    174. Cag-does-thinking says:

      Wonderful cartoon. I can’t honestly say I particularly like demonstrations of military might, they are the preserve of failed dictators usually to show the minions how much is ranged against them to crush their hopes. Isn’t it lucky we can all make a democratic decision on September 18th without any threat or intimidation. Isn’t it?

    175. Les Wilson says:

      Looks like Bannockburn got a whole lot more visitors than expected, suggest this may have contributed to problems encountered.

      As far as forces day is concerned, it would follow that their grand plans to subvert Bannockburn, did not exactly come off as they expected.
      However, watch the media et all spin it to be a huge success.Nothing to do with the soldiers etc, they were just being used to beat the Unionist drum.

    176. Cindie says:

      A comment from one of the soldiers at AFD on Facebook:

      https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=769989073032726&id=307256019306036

      Just in case you can’t read it, this is what it says:

      “I played at Arm Forces day because i am in the Argyle Sutherland Highlanders pipe band and we were Leading the Argyles veterans .90% of the band are yes voters. 80% of the veterans i was talking to are yes voters. The 20% no voters were the officers David Cameron and Ed Miliband were there.When their names were announced The crowed went silent then grumbled. I was talking to most of the crowd that was there they were not fooled by David Cameron having Arm Forces day on the same day as Robert the Bruce’s 1314 remembrance day , They were their because they had to be. The grass roots yes campaign is winning and the more David Cameron tries to stamp it out the more people are becoming aware of his tactics. Hail Alba”

    177. Capella says:

      @ Roll_On_2014 says 3:59 pm
      Thanks or the link. For those of us who couldn’t get there that film was a good substitute
      @ kendomacaroonbar 4.31
      Thanks for the comment. Great to hear that the event was such a success and AFD not. Good news.

    178. bookie from hell says:

      kendomacaroonbar

      I thought if you had a ticket u just walked in?

    179. @john king
      These young Better together canvassers do get paid,a young guy I know from shetland works for the Edinburgh lot.Wouldnt tell me how much they paid me,didnt know i support YES,but as he is a student here he needs the money,Wonder how he sleeps at night….

    180. Kev says:

      Well just back from Bannockburn and apart from the rain thoroughly enjoyed it. David Torrance was actually a few yards ahead of us in the queue at the main entrance with his foldable bike and was busily beavering away on his ipad. I joked to the girlfriend that he was probably on twitter whingeing about the queue and it turns out that’s exactly what he was doing!!

      I was desperately trying to get eye contact so I could say “Hey Dave, you joining us at Pacific Quay tomorrow?” but sadly never got a chance.

      I don’t know what his excuse was in not gaining access to the battle reenactment as we managed to make it fairly easily although it did involve queueing again, but there was another one on at 4pm.

      I then bumped into someone who didn’t seem bothered at all with being stuck in a long queue – John Swinney- we both gave him a big smile and a thumbs up and he did likewise, what a nice guy! He was chatting to Dougie MacLean from a distance who was doing a few interviews.

      The only other downside of the event apart from the driving rain was ofcourse the other event, the noise of jets occasionally threatening to drown out the narration of the battle reenactment and ruin the whole medieval atmosphere that this historic event was trying to achieve. Thankfully, it never quite did.

      I can’t for the life of me imagine how someone working in and serving the good people of Stirling day-in, day-out could treat the epic history of that town and their country with the utter contempt that the unholy alliance at Stirling Council has. They are an absolute disgrace to their nation and I sincerely hope the good people of Stirling have a long enough memory to ensure that this shower never, ever get to make such treacherous decisions ever again.

    181. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @bookie from hell

      We thought that would be the case too, however there was only a couple of guys checking tickets and a massive shed load of bods arriving early to get in early….:-(

      Critical path analysis seemed not to have been considered.

    182. bookie from hell says:

      great post kev thx

    183. bookie from hell says:

      thx ken

    184. Awayanbileyerheed says:

      Just back from bannockburnlive, great event, although the rain came on in afternoon. Family all dressed in Yes. Had my 5ft flag also and was interveiwed by German TV, French radio and a french magazine. Had the chance to give them all positive messages, self determination etc. They all wished us good luck, good folks, quite a few yessers on show there. Good to see. 🙂

    185. castle hills chavie says:

      Bookie from hell

      If you booked your tickets online, like we did, you had to stand in the queue to collect them.
      Still worth it though.

    186. callum says:

      Just back from armed forces day. I have to say I was a bit worried I was marching into the dragons den of unionism – but that didn’t happen. Passed a guy on the way in who was having a conversation about “why are we going into illegal wars”which was unexpected.

      They were handing out wee stick flags that had a saltire on one sde and a union flag on the other side. Maybe my bias but most people were hiding the union flag side.

      The bands were quite good but the royal marines were drowned out by the stirling council stage by someone singing the george Michael hit “freedom”. Irony was not missed.

      Saw a few politicians but no overt BT presence.

    187. Smithie says:

      According to this there were over 35000 people at event

      https://www.facebook.com/EuCitizensForAnIndependentScotland

    188. Muscleguy says:

      @Robert Kerr
      Mea Culpa! thanks for the correction. I’ve even been to the place, ruined now and rather lonely.

    189. velofello says:

      @ donald anderson: Elspeth King and Michael Donnolly. Didn’t they do excellent work in Glasgow – Peoples Palace? but ran foul of Glasgow City Council?

    190. handclapping says:

      An O/T take on double standards; is the man arrested for threats against the FM a cybernat? I mean all the nastiness on fb, twitter and the internet is all done by these cybernats so I’ve been told.

    191. Rock says:

      700 years ago, Scottish independence won against all the odds.

      Let us make sure that Scottish independence will win again on 18th September, again against all the odds.

    192. Rock says:

      700 years ago, Scottish independence won against all the odds.

      Let us make sure that Scottish independence wins on 18th September, again against all the odds.

    193. donald anderson says:

      Yes. Elspeth King and Michael Donnolly built up the Peoples Palace and had t reapply for their jobs, which was given to a tame Pat Lally poodle.

    194. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      A good day for a rendition of Robert Bruce’s March to Bannockburn (2014 Cybernat version):-

      Scots, wha hae frae foodbanks fed,
      Scots, wham Atos chased ‘til dead;
      Welcome to your room-taxed bed,
      Vote YES for victory!

      Now’s oor day, and now’s oor hour;
      See the front o’ Poundland lour;
      See approach yon Workfare shower—
      Say NO to slavery!

      Wha can fill a pauper’s grave?
      Wha vote for a Tory knave?
      Wha sae base as be their slave?
      Vote YES and see them flee!

      Wha’s for Scotland’s land and law,
      Vote YES and freedom’s won for a’,
      Scotsman stand, or Scotsman fa’,
      Scots lassies too—, follow me!

      By austerity’s woes and pains!
      By oor oil’s non-benefit claims!
      Nae school milk for poor wee weans,
      But YES will make us free!

      Lay the Proud Scot Naw-ers low!
      Twitter trends trash campaign-NO!
      Wings of Scotland’s where we’ll go!—
      Vote YES – We’re no’ Too Wee!

    195. Patrician says:

      @Chris, brilliant cartoon.

      Watching a news report on BBC about AFD mentioned that attendance was about 2000. The earlier link to BBC web report says BBL was 10000 tickets sold out. This should have gone to one of the English bidders but obviously the propagandists won that argument.

      @Taranaich @4:38pm

      Reinhard Heydrich

      “Deprive the people of their National Consciousness, treat them as a tribe and not a Nation, dilute their National pride, do not teach their history, propagate their language as inferior, imply they have a cultural void, emphasise their customs are primitive and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly”

      On the Germanisation of Czechoslovakia.

    196. Cag-does-thinking says:

      An interesting point from the BBC website is despite being a UK wide phenomenon, Armed Forces Day is only reported as top story in Scotland and second story in Wales (Where a whole 800 people celebrated it). In English news it doesn’t even merit a mention, it only seems to be for us UK minions with pages of coverage from Stirling that well known heart of the UK.

    197. SheepOnFire says:

      STV News did NOT report anything on BannockBurnLive on its evening news.

      STV reported ArmedForcesDay, and strangely PipingHotForres.

      So we must conclude STV decided not worth reporting BannockBurnLive.

      I’m starting to notice STV bias and non-reporting of news. STV News seem to be following BBC hype, now.

      BBC Scotland’s Reporting Scotland did report on BannockBurnLive today.

      I was assessing the crowd pictures and ArmedForcesDay didn’t look so crowded. BannockBurnLive was a sellout.

      I urge STV to be at Pacific Quay demo this Sunday.

      I may email my concerns to STV News sponsors:

      ps. BBC Scotland is lost to us. They’re to far corrupted. All have to be sacked on Independence Day. Keep Isobel Fraser, Ken Macdonald and put Derek Bateman incharge.

      pps. Latest Wings stats says 1.7million unique followers, thats 1.7million customers STV may annoy!

    198. Derick Tulloch says:

      A Facebook friend who was at Bannockburn said the field was buzzed by an Apache helicopter below 150 feet. Not exactly subtle

    199. donald anderson says:

      That’s the same tactics (Labour) helicopters used in the North of Ireland to drown out public speakers.

    200. Ref the decision of Stirling Council to hold AFD this is all part of Astroturfing , to make things look like they come from local /grassroots where in fact they are orchestrated from a group/organization that wants to remain hidden.Fricken classic Astroturfing.Fricken wake up!

    201. Andrew says:

      Hi folks,

      I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling trailer campaign?

      http://igg.me/at/Yes-Stirling-Advert-Trailer-Campaign/x/6564848

      We’ve just started this campaign and are short of our target but your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes on this site.

      Folks, we really need these trailers. They are vital to the success of Yes winning the Yes vote in the Stirling constituency. Please give what you can!



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